Meeting of the Parliament
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MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT Wednesday 30 October 2002 (Afternoon) Session 1 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2002. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Copyright Unit, Her Majesty‟s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by The Stationery Office Ltd. Her Majesty‟s Stationery Office is independent of and separate from the company now trading as The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body publications. CONTENTS Wednesday 30 October 2002 Debates Col. TIME FOR REFLECTION .................................................................................................................................. 11703 BUSINESS MOTION ........................................................................................................................................ 11705 Motion moved—[Euan Robson]—and agreed to. FISHING ........................................................................................................................................................ 11707 Statement—[Ross Finnie]. The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie) ..................................................... 11707 WATER ENVIRONMENT AND WATER SERVICES (SCOTLAND) BILL: STAGE 1 .................................................... 11718 Motion moved—[Ross Finnie]. The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie) ..................................................... 11718 Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) ...................................................................................... 11723 John Scott (Ayr) (Con) ............................................................................................................................. 11727 Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab) ......................................................................................................... 11729 Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD) .................................................................................................................. 11732 Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP) ....................................................................... 11734 Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab) ....................................................................................... 11736 Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP) ............................................................................................... 11737 Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab) ................................................................................................ 11738 Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con) .............................................................................................. 11740 Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) ................................................................................. 11742 Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP) ................................................................... 11744 Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab) ................................................................................ 11745 Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green) ............................................................................................................. 11747 George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD) ........................................................................................................ 11748 Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con) .................................................................................... 11749 Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP) ................................................................................................ 11751 The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson) ....................................... 11753 WATER ENVIRONMENT AND WATER SERVICES (SCOTLAND) BILL: FINANCIAL RESOLUTION ............................. 11758 Motion moved—[Peter Peacock]. DECISION TIME ............................................................................................................................................. 11759 POINT OF ORDER .......................................................................................................................................... 11762 NORDIC COUNCIL ......................................................................................................................................... 11763 Motion debated—[Mr Kenny MacAskill]. Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP) ..................................................................................................... 11763 Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab) ........................................................................................... 11765 Tavish Scott (Shetland) (LD) ................................................................................................................... 11766 Mr George Reid (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) ...................................................................................... 11768 Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD) ............................................................. 11769 Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) .......................................................................................... 11771 Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD) .................................................................................................... 11772 Richard Lochhead (North-East Scotland) (SNP) ..................................................................................... 11773 The Deputy Minister for Finance and Public Services (Peter Peacock).................................................. 11775 11703 30 OCTOBER 2002 11704 alongside them, hearing their silent cry, sharing Scottish Parliament their distress and bringing comfort to the afflicted and dignity to the deprived. Wednesday 30 October 2002 As we face the 21st century with its formidable (Afternoon) challenges, let us remember the truth of history: that civilisations survive not by strength, but by [THE PRESIDING OFFICER opened the meeting at how they respond to the weak; not by wealth, but 14:31] by the care that they show for the poor; not by power, but by their concern for the powerless. The ironic yet utterly humane lesson of history is that what renders a culture invulnerable is the Time for Reflection compassion that it shows the vulnerable. The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel): It is a May the Almighty be with you in all your great privilege to welcome the Chief Rabbi, Dr deliberations, granting you a spirit of wisdom and Jonathan Sacks, to lead our time for reflection. understanding, and may he spread his blessing of peace over you and all those you serve. Dr Jonathan Sacks (Chief Rabbi): Presiding Officer, it is a great privilege to have been invited by you to lead this moment of reflection. I do so with great warmth and sense of moment, first, because Edinburgh is the home of the Scottish enlightenment and of two figures who have been an enormous influence on me—Adam Fergusson and Adam Smith; secondly, because Scotland‟s religious history was shaped by the idea central to the Hebrew Bible—that of social covenant, not just social contract; and thirdly, because it allows me to pay tribute to the wonderful and, I hope, mutually enriching relationship that exists between Scottish society and its proud and distinguished Jewish community. Quite the nicest thing that has happened to me in the past few years is that my son married a Scottish lass, so I feel by marriage part of the family. When we sit in this exalted chamber, dealing with matters that will affect many people‟s lives, what is the right relationship between power and people? I take as my text a moving statement by a great rabbi of the third century—Rabbi Johanan. We as Jews recite this passage every Saturday night as the day of rest ends and we prepare ourselves to re-engage with the world. Rabbi Johanan said: “Wherever you find mentioned the greatness of God, there too you will find mentioned His humility. Thus it is written in the Torah, „For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords‟ and immediately afterwards it says, „He upholds the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing.‟ It says in the Prophets, „Thus speaks the High and exalted One … I live in a high and holy place‟ and immediately afterwards it says, „but also with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and the heart of the contrite.‟ A third time it says in the holy writings: „Sing to God, sing praises to His name, extol Him who rides the clouds‟ and immediately afterwards it says, „Father of the fatherless, a judge of widows, is God in His holy habitation.‟” Rabbi Johanan‟s statement tells us that true greatness, even for God—how much more so for us—is not to be above people but to be with them, 11705 30 OCTOBER 2002 11706 Business Motion 3:10 pm First Minister‟s Question Time 3:30 pm Executive Debate on Quality of Life followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 14:36 5:00 pm Decision Time The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel): Our next item of business is consideration of business followed by Members‟