Parliamentary Debates (Hansard)
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Thursday Volume 495 9 July 2009 No. 109 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Thursday 9 July 2009 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 1111 9 JULY 2009 1112 are just a really bad joke. At the time, the Prime Minister House of Commons said that he was in favour of bringing forward a gold standard scheme that would be made mandatory for the Thursday 9 July 2009 industry as a whole. Can the Secretary of State say how close we are to bringing forward such a mandatory scheme? The House met at half-past Ten o’clock Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend raises an important PRAYERS issue. He has a long and distinguished record of campaigning on such matters. I believe that the social tariff system needs reform. At present, the system tends [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] to be piecemeal—who gets into it and who does not is often an arbitrary process. We shall have more to say about it in the future. Oral Answers to Questions Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con): I welcome the Secretary of State back from his paternity leave. He is looking fantastically well, considering that he is being ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE woken every two hours of the night by bawling and screaming—but perhaps he is not returning the Prime Minister’s calls these days. The Secretary of State was asked— Does the Secretary of State think that the relationship between wholesale and retail gas prices is sufficiently Domestic Energy Tariffs transparent? 1. Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) Edward Miliband: I think that we have brought greater (LD): What recent discussions he has had with (a) transparency to it. The hon. Gentleman will know that energy companies and (b) Ofgem on the structure of as a result of the announcement made by the Chancellor domestic energy tariffs; and if he will make a in the Budget there is now a quarterly publication by statement. [285151] Ofgem on the relationship between wholesale and retail prices. As always, I am open to any suggestions about The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how to improve the situation. I agree with the hon. (Edward Miliband): I have frequent discussions with Gentleman that we need proper transparency so that Ofgem and the energy companies on domestic energy people can see that when wholesale prices go down, tariffs. In the past nine months, and following Ofgem’s retail prices follow. finding of unfair pricing, suppliers have removed £300 million in unfair premiums, including £96 million from those on prepayment meters. Ofgem is also Greg Clark: I am grateful for that. Let me make a changing the law to forbid future unfair discrimination suggestion. At the moment, we have a situation in against customers on the basis of where they live or which two Government quangos are saying contradictory how they pay. things. Ofgem says that everything is under control, yet just last week Consumer Focus said that every household Mr. Carmichael: I am grateful to the Secretary of is paying £74 a year too much. As a suggestion, can the State for that answer. Is he aware of the situation that Secretary of State cut through the confusion and end it faces some of my constituents? When changing from once and for all by a swift, forensic reference to the prepay meters to key meters—from card meters to key Competition Commission on that narrow point? meters—they found that they were having to pay the premium, which was later to be refunded by the energy Edward Miliband: I will look at the hon. Gentleman’s company. Surely, that system should not be allowed proposal. Personally, I am worried about references to to operate. the Competition Commission, apart from the most extreme cases and I will tell him why: it is a lengthy Edward Miliband: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman process, which will not yield results on behalf of the for raising that issue and I hope that the change in consumer. However, I will look at the point that he licence conditions that Ofgem is introducing will prevent raises and I undertake to discuss it with Ofgem. unfair pricing practices. I should be grateful if he wrote to me, or provided me with more information, about the Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): On unfair particular practice that he was talking about, and I shall electricity prices, I have been on my knees to my right obviously draw it to Ofgem’s attention to see what can hon. Friend’s predecessors about industrial electricity be done. prices. My right hon. Friend as a south Yorkshire MP will know of the devastation of job losses in the steel Alan Simpson (Nottingham, South) (Lab): The Secretary industry, caused in part by high electricity prices. Will of State will recall that earlier in the year, the Prime he talk to EDF, which is a state-owned company, and if Minister met a group of MPs who were concerned the company will not listen, will he talk to his opposite about the complete mess the energy companies are number in Paris, and ask them to agree the same tariff making of social tariffs. Only 600,000 households of with Corus as exists in France or other European countries, the 5.1 million in fuel poverty are included in the tariffs, so that greater hope can be given on the future of the many of which are so obscure and inaccessible that they steel industry in south Yorkshire? 1113 Oral Answers9 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 1114 Edward Miliband: The difference between us and the how to bring non-standard homes into the scheme. For French is that we do not direct tariffs for energy companies. example, for solid-wall homes, we are producing new We do not have that system, but I think that my right programmes and pilots that will give us the option of hon. Friend raises an important point. Yesterday, I met using air source heat pumps. Through other programmes, representatives of industry from the west midlands who such as the carbon emissions reduction target uplift, are concerned about the position of other industrial which is an obligation on energy companies, we will consumers. I think that we need tough regulation in that make it possible to do more work in homes that are not area, which is one where Ofgem needs to act. It is conventionally built. something that I have discussed, and will discuss, with Ofgem. Miss Julie Kirkbride (Bromsgrove) (Con): Does the Minister agree that one of the biggest and easiest hits Home Energy Efficiency that we can make when it comes to our climate change ambitions is tackling domestic carbon emissions? The 2. Paul Rowen (Rochdale) (LD): How much funding measures taken in the home are therefore the most he has allocated for home energy efficiency measures in important. Why does she not bang heads together, get a 2010-11. [285152] smart metering agreement between the various companies, and implement it as soon as possible? The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Joan Ruddock): The principal schemes Joan Ruddock: I agree with the hon. Lady’s proposition. for delivering home energy efficiency in 2010-11 will be About 27 per cent. of our emissions come from the Warm Front, the carbon emissions reduction target, domestic sector and result from the choices that we and the community energy saving programme. The make, so that sector is very important. We have already budget for Warm Front in 2010-11 is £195 million. The announced a roll-out of smart meters. It is a complex other two schemes are funded by the energy companies, programme—it needs to reach every household in the so the information for a specific year is commercially country—so it will start next year and will take 10 years. confidential. However, based on the measures that are If we can speed it up, we will. It is very important, it is to be delivered, we can say that estimated overall spend the way forward, and we will do it. will be around £3.7 billion between 2008 and 2012. Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North) (Lab): Is it not the Paul Rowen: I thank the Minister for that. I am sure case that a national energy efficiency programme is that she is aware that there are 2¼ pensioners in fuel important not only as regards climate change, but for poverty—[HON.MEMBERS:“2¼ million.”] Sorry; there job creation? On the economic stimulus packages that are 2¼ million pensioners in fuel poverty, yet the pre-Budget different countries have introduced in response to the report estimated that the increase in expenditure on the economic crisis, is it not true that the proportion of issue would deal with an extra 66,000 people only. those resources that we are allocating to green jobs is Given that she has not told us how many people the far lower than in the USA, China, France, Germany energy companies will help, what impact will that extra and South Korea? Would not a national energy efficiency expenditure have on reducing pensioner fuel poverty? programme, clearly identified and clearly branded, be one of the most effective ways of registering our support Joan Ruddock: Let me tell the hon.