Interview

Rethinking the University

Discussion group (from left): Corinna Dahm-Brey, Matthias Echterhagen (both from the Press and Public Relations Office), Sabine Doering, Birger Kollmeier, Katharina Al-Shamery and Niko Paech.

The University of Oldenburg celebrates its 40th Ms Al-Shamery, you came to Olden- Kollmeier: I can recall exactly what it exciting times in which the younger naturally had far more possibilities to anniversary this year. What makes this university burg as a physical chemistry lecturer was like when I started here. At 33 I was among us were handed responsibility actively organise research projects. But in 1999. What was it like when you first the youngest professor in the faculty very quickly. Things had been very diffe- for me there‘s another important point: special? What are the responsibilities of academics started here? when I came to Oldenburg in 1992. In rent for me in Bavaria. Here in Oldenburg what I really like is that at this university in general? How should education look in the future? Al-Shamery: I was immediately invol- Göttingen I had addressed all the stu- I suddenly had the chance to help mould you experience an interdisciplinarity And how can universities encourage students‘ thirst ved in discussions about projects that dents with „du“, while they used the the institute and its working conditions. that elsewhere you only hear about in were exciting and, above all, interdisci- formal „Sie“ with me. Then I came to I found myself among a strong and at pretty speeches. An interdisciplinarity for knowledge? An exchange of views between plinary. Biologists were having discus- Oldenburg and addressed everyone with first glance homogenous founder gene- that is constantly invoked by politicians Acting University President and chemistry professor sions with archaeologists, historians, „Sie“ and they all used „du“ with me. It ration that wavered between nostalgia, involved in university and science policy, Katharina Al-Shamery, literature professor Sabine philosophers and also chemists like my- was a bit of a culture shock. All in all those steadfastness and a wonderful sense of but seldom put into practice. self about things like patina on paintings first years weren‘t that easy for me, as the self-assurance. Doering, hearing researcher Birger Kollmeier and and sculptures. That was completely new youngest professor leading the largest Mr Kollmeier, you are seen as one of economic growth critic Niko Paech to me. And also the discussions about team of 16 people – plus all the equip- Mr Paech, you came to the university the university‘s scientific standard- teaching methodology were entirely ment and space we needed. But they from the city administration ... bearers. Among other things you are different here. At other universities tea- certainly had a major influence on me. Paech: That‘s right, I was the Agenda 21 in charge of the Hearing4all Cluster ching methodology was always sidelined representative in Oldenburg for three of Excellence. If you had to put it in a and ridiculed to a certain extent. Here it Ms Doering, did you experience a cul- years. Then I saw a call for applications, a few words, what is the driving force of was at the centre of things. I still value ture shock when you first came to the project of the Federal Ministry of Educa- your research? precisely this difference in the culture at Institute for German Studies in 2001? tion and Research that dealt with sus- Kollmeier: To advance basic knowledge Oldenburg University today – it makes it Doering: Yes, you could say that, in a tainability research for markets and cor- in the natural sciences. In the cluster we special. And it is also no doubt the reason positive sense. I particularly recall the porations. Naturally I already knew the are dedicated to researching the sense why many colleagues prefer to stay on sense of renewal that prevailed at the university, and it had a good reputation. of hearing, an extremely complicated here even when they are offered presti- institute and in the faculty at the time, I quickly realised that it wasn‘t just good system that we want to understand gious posts elsewhere. which also led to feelings of uncertainty. in sustainability research but also had better. And that can‘t happen without I had just turned 40, there was a handful a very high standing due to its open- constantly learning new things in an ab- Mr Kollmeier, what was your experi- of colleagues under 50, while the rest ness for problems relating to society as solutely interdisciplinary environment ence? were heading for retirement. Those were a whole. Later, after my habilitation, I like that here in Oldenburg. I comple-

16 EINBLICKE 2014 17 Prof. Dr. Katharina Al-Shamery Prof. Dr. Katharina Al-Shamery is Acting President of the University of Oldenburg. She is a professor of chemistry and Scientific Member of the Senate of the German Research Foundation (DFG). She is also a member of the German National Academy of Sciences Leopoldina. She has been awarded the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany for her achievements in science and research. From 2011 to 2014 she was a member of the independent committee „Ombudsman für die Wissenschaft“.

and financial system, we really are on tegic thinking and are able to develop my positive impression of this university, the Titanic. Where are the alternative their own visions? Including, and abo- because not only am I tolerated here, but economic models? We need to reflect ve all, visions for our society‘s future. sometimes I even receive support. more on what changes are necessary to So we must oppose this short-sighted make a society more crisis-proof. And view and review our ideas about what In what way? interdisciplinary cooperation can create universities are. And the University of Paech: My colleagues often voice diffe- the perfect conditions for developing Oldenburg can make an important con- rent views to mine. But they do it within such resilience. tribution here. the context of their work and also of their Kollmeier: To stay with that image, I feel networks beyond the boundaries of their more like the professor in that cocktail Mr Paech, you have a reputation as own departments, while also allowing bar. Ultimately we have two currencies: an unconventional thinker. The ma- for different views. For us all, the general money and time. It is a question of effi- gazine „Die Zeit“ once described you principle applies that unconventional ciency, of how much time we can use for as a „radical growth critic“. How im- thinking must not divert attention from We all have in common that we strive to come closer to the truth“: The foyer in the auditorium building. procuring funding, as we‘re compelled to portant is it for you to be „unconven- the criteria for good research and good do in order to be able to carry out research tional“ and to adopt unconventional teaching. For me it‘s very important to under certain conditions. Therefore I positions in academia? also be skilled at what I do. don‘t see reducing everything to money Paech: It‘s clear that today anyone who Doering: I agree. Being unconventional tely agree with Mr Paech on that. And study the products of the arts if we want Paech: That‘s true, we economists also as so decisive. I don‘t get the impression argues against economic growth and is not a value in itself. As Mr Paech said, this is the core idea as I see it: studying to understand who we are and what ma- lack the time to develop creative and that our university is primarily driven by even claims to do so using scientific competence is primary. And I see it as a something from different perspectives jor questions we need to address. problem-oriented theoretical content money or external funding. And a per- arguments will be considered uncon- great strength of this university that we and thus gaining a better understanding because we‘re constantly in a hurry. We son‘s status certainly can‘t be measured ventional. But what interests me is the encourage independence in the face of of the underlying structure of the system Can you give an example? have to continually demonstrate how in terms of the allocation of external question of how one positions oneself as the disciplinary traditions. At the same considered. Doering: When in my work I deal inten- many projects we have and how much funding. an unconventional thinker within a net- time we must take care to ensure that sively with the literature and thinking of they‘re worth. This is, so to speak, a phy- work of fellow academics and also within certain unconventional topics aren‘t “Excellent research in the the period around 1800 – one of the most sical and at times distorted evaluati- “Forming their personalities a faculty. And in this respect I stand by carved in stone. Not all that was uncon- important phases in modern literature on procedure. A project is considered humanities is sometimes must play a major role.” and the history of ideas – I help people to unimportant because it was only alloca- Katharina Al-Shamery carried out without any understand how ways of thinking and ted 350,000 euros. Another project is external funding at all.” decisions developed, whose impact we deemed more important just because it Sabine Doering still feel today. And yet my main objective brought in double that amount. But the Al-Shamery: I find it difficult even to here is not the instrumentality of such primary question we have to ask is how see where universities are heading to- knowledge as such but the historical this society benefits from carrying out a day. Society increasingly demands of us Ms Doering, as a humanities scholar depth of our present time, which needs specific research project or developing that we spend three years of research you probably have different priorities? to be subjected to well-founded scho- a certain corpus that involves multiple on a project and deliver the product im- Doering: Well, we all have in common larly reflection. To value this requires a members of staff and competences? mediately afterwards. This seems short that we are committed to scientific prin- different perspective. Academic value sighted to me. Universities are not just ciples. And that we strive to come closer is often measured in terms of external Have universities ultimately become places where research is carried out. to the truth. Nonetheless I do frequently funding and the number of colleagues blind to the problems of society? They also educate young people who are encounter a certain sense of alienation researching a subject. And that‘s wrong. Paech: They often remind me of the later on expected to bear responsibility regarding the things we literary scho- Excellent research in the humanities cocktail bar on the Titanic, where the in their careers. Forming their persona- lars study – also because it‘s not so easy is sometimes carried out without any barkeeper wonders how he can refine lities must therefore play a major role. In the dead of the night in October for me to say that society will benefit external funding at all. And what that the cocktails while the ship is already In practice the students rush from one 1974 students secretly put the directly from what I do. But the study of research needs more than anything else keeling. To name just one example, so- exam to the next. The question we need name „Carl von Ossietzky“ in literature is of great importance. I‘m con- is something which is scarcely available ciety still hasn‘t come to terms with the to ask is how we can develop our uni- large letters onto the University vinced that art in its various forms of ex- in my faculty because of the burgeoning financial crisis of 2008. The obvious con- versities so that students are capable tower. The name wasn‘t officially approved until 1991. pression is an anthropological constant obligations in teaching and mentoring, clusions have not been drawn. In view of of shouldering responsibility later on, and a profound human need. We must namely time. the many instabilities in the monetary so that they learn combinatorial, stra-

18 EINBLICKE 2014 19 Prof. Dr. Sabine Doering Sabine Doering is professor for modern German literature at the University of Oldenburg. She is currently conducting research as a residential fellow at the Notre Dame Institute for Advanced Study (NDIAS) of the University of Notre Dame (Indiana, USA). Doering serves as president of the Tübingen-based international Hölderlin Society and also as a member of Academic Advisory Council of the Federal Institute for Culture and History of the Germans in Eastern Europe (BKGE).

ventional and innovative yesterday is – and that is now partially reflected in whether we want to stick to the expan- necessarily relevant or good today. And at the medical education at our university. sive prosperity model that emerged after the moment I see a lot of new energy, also We all benefit from the fact that this the Second World War, come hell or high among my colleagues, focussed on the university is not a venerable institution water? Or should we at the universities in question of what the important topics with old structures, but a very dynamic fact start asking whether a different kind are today, and – far more importantly – one where you can feel comfortable in of economy, one that breaks with tradi- what they will be tomorrow. non-classical areas – and unconventio- tional concepts, needs to be developed? Al-Shamery: But that question has al- nal thinking is an advantage there. Much can be learned from such contro- ways been a driving force at Oldenburg versies. And I believe this is what really University. Take the research on rene- “It is a question of efficiency, captivates the students: a frank and fair wable energies. It came about as a result exchange of views. of the anti-nuclear energy movement, of how much time we can Doering: A problem we have in Ger- and if you dealt with the „renewables“, use for procuring funding, man is that the number of students we as Joachim Luther [a professor of nuclear as we‘re compelled to do teach is constantly growing. A few years physics at the University of Oldenburg in ago we had around 150 students in the On the way to the next exam? Or towards a vision for our society‘s future? the 1970s, who later became interested in order to be able to carry first semester lecture in German litera- in renewable energy] did back then, you out research under certain ture. Now it‘s 300. They need first-rate were immediately put in a pigeon hole. conditions.” teaching. We have the funds from the When we reflect on how this line of re- Birger Kollmeier Higher Education Pact, but much of the search on renewable energies has gained teaching is done by the PhD students and we studied. There was a huge culture of in the promotion of young researchers aren‘t acting as pioneers for sustainable influence worldwide, we have to say that postdocs, leaving them less time for re- debate; some things we found terrible – with 18 programmes we already play a development because they are too uncri- it has more than paid off. I also find it Doering: For me, unconventional thin- search. And I would like to see us become and others not. But the atmosphere was leading role in Lower Saxony alongside tical about our modern society, which is important to not just focus on the major king means not running after the latest more successful at creating a research- always very lively, and we consciously Göttingen. based on excessive, completely illusory projects and cut back on everything else. trends. In the humanities in particular, and performance-oriented climate right addressed issues in society. Today I sense lifestyles. It‘s crucial to also promote projects that that is often the case. One „turn“ after from the initial phase of studies. The con- a dwindling enthusiasm for the various Mr Paech, what do you want for the are deemed exotic elsewhere. Henrik another is announced. And there are sequence of a misunderstood bachelor subjects. Eyes should shine with enthu- university‘s future? What does that mean in concrete Mouritsen‘s research on navigation in universities that are very quick at adap- system is the attitude that the goal is to siasm once more – and people should Paech: As an economist I want different terms for the university? migratory birds is a good example. We ting to the latest turn, only to lag behind collect as many credits as possible with come to the University of Oldenburg sustainable economic models to be dealt Paech: Many young people go to uni- are aiming for a certain diversity, and later on. That‘s why I think it‘s import- the least possible effort. Unfortunately because they want to gain knowledge. with without preconceptions and on versity to have an excuse for not getting that means making room for new things, ant that we have places here where you I sometimes see particularly dedicated For this to happen, university education equal terms. As you said, Ms Al-Shamery, their hands dirty with what we used and that room can only be created if you experience trust. And also for example students having a hard time and prefer- must again be a matter for debate, and we need to get young people interested to call production, labour or a skilled allow unusual projects too. follow goals that are not so fashionable, ring to keep their mouths shut because together with other universities we can in the actual course content, not just in manual job. People who go to university but have a fundamental long-term value. they don‘t want to be seen as overambi- spearhead that debate. At the same time their careers after their studies. Unfor- today expect to enjoy a good social sta- The Oldenburg hearing research pro- Our responsibility as academics in the tious. We must show right from the start I want us to continue making headway tunately at the moment universities tus and a comfortable, globally uncon- ject also started in an unusual way positive sense, whether the topics are that university and education are not – with a noise protection project. Mr trendy or traditional, is to be role models just about earning a bachelor‘s degree, Kollmeier, what role does unconven- and show perseverance and to say: „The- but about being inspired by important tional thinking play in your research? se are the topics we are investigating.“ problems and substantive questions, and Kollmeier: A big role certainly – taking Paech: The question is how we can en- mastering them together. me as an example you might see that I courage young people to leave the beaten don‘t really fit into any category either. track every now and then, no matter Education that inspires: Ms Al-Sha- Prof. Dr. Birger Kollmeier I‘m neither a pure physicist nor a pure what their discipline. This is only pos- mery, must the university do more to Physicist and physician Birger Kollmeier is coordinator of the „Hearing4all“ Cluster of medical doctor, and right from the start sible at universities where conflicts of achieve this? Excellence and also head of the „Medical Physics“ department, the Hörzentrum Olden- of my education I saw the better metho- opinion are argued out in a productive Al-Shamery: We must use this mo- burg GmbH and the Fraunhofer Project Group for Hearing, Speech and Audio Techno- dology in physics and the more interes- way. It doesn‘t do any harm if there‘s a ment in time to reflect on university logy. Kollmeier has received a number of prestigious awards, including the International ting questions in medicine. In the end little friction here and there. One as- education. We are all a little older and Award of the American Academy of Audiology and the German President‘s Award for I tried to bring the two things together pect we economists are arguing about is know what university was like when Technology and Innovation.

20 EINBLICKE 2014 21 Prof. Dr. Niko Paech Niko Paech is professor for „Production and Environment“ at the University of Oldenburg and committee member of the Association for Ecological Economy (VÖÖ). Paech is well known as a radical growth critic and has received several awards for his ideas on a „post- growth economy“, including the ZEIT WISSEN Sustainability Prize. Paech is also an active member of institutions such as the Oldenburg energy cooperative OLEGENO, the Kom- petenzzentrum Bauen und Energie (KoBE) and the Polygenos cooperative.

strained life later on – anything else is improve the further away they are. We personality to campaign for those things out of the question for them. Meanwhile have plenty that we can build on right he considered most important: freedom, the material downside of our existence here in this region. I would like to see us justice and peace. And I would like to see is outsourced to India and China. The getting better and better and put this the entire university discussing once belief in progress, in being able to replace into practice to attract the best brains. more how deeply indebted we are to this matter with knowledge and symbols, is person as our namesake. I would also one of the great problems of our educa- “Unfortunately at the mo- like that discussion to involve the stu- tion system. And I expect universities, dents. Because those who campaigned ment universities aren‘t and economists in particular, to finally for the university to be given that name develop sustainable alternatives for the acting as pioneers for susta- weren‘t unworldly crackpots. They were future. inable development.” people who saw in the person of Carl von Niko Paech Ossietzky an agenda which each new Mr Kollmeier, what do you see as the generation must reflect upon anew. university‘s most important tasks – what do you want for it? And you, Ms Doering? Ms Al-Shamery, Ms Doering, Mr Koll- Kollmeier: For me the top priority is Doering: We have the good fortune that meier and Mr Paech, we thank you for the battle for the best brains. It needn‘t the generation before us fought to have this discussion. necessarily be people from all over the this university named after a wonder- world; people from Germany are also a ful person. Carl von Ossietzky was an Interview: Corinna Dahm-Brey, good choice. The quality of people doesn‘t unconventional thinker who used his Matthias Echterhagen

„The trajectory of research on renewable energies“. The plans for the self-sufficient Energy Lab – with its photovoltaic systems pictured here – were developed in the 1970s.

22 EINBLICKE 2014 23