Iran-The Rise of Radical Islam and the Downfall of Freedom: ​ An Interview with Iran’s Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi

(Tehran, Iran-outside the former U.S. Embassy, Iranians burn the flag of the United States.)

Interviewer: Karis Mardirossian

Interviewee: Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi

Instructor: Amanda Freeman

February 11, 2019

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Table of Contents ​

Interviewer Release Form ...... 3

Interviewee Release Form...... 4

Statement of Purpose...... 5

Biography...... 6

Historical Contextualization

Paper...... 8

Interview transcription...... 26

Interview Analysis...... 58

Bibliography...... 71

Mardirossian 3

Mardirossian 4

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Statement of Purpose ​

The Iranian Revolution is a very important part of history because it not only impacted

Iran, it also severed the cooperative and cordial relationship between Iran and the United States.

The revolution also left its permanent imprint on the dynamics and balance of the Middle East.

The ramifications of the 1978-1979 uprising, that led to the overthrow of Mohammad Reza

Pahlavi, are stilling being debated today. Thirty-nine years after the revolution, relations between our two countries are still hostile and very adversarial. The growing terrorism and unrest in the

Middle East have reached the United States and remain a severe threat. Terrorist groups are still seeking strongholds in other Middle Eastern countries. With these ramifications come different perspectives of whether Iran and the world are better or worse off because of the revolution.

With these conflicting perspectives, it is essential to seek the opinion of someone who lived in

Iran and had first hand knowledge of the event. My interview with Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi provided insight as to the evolution of Iran as a country.

Mardirossian 6 Biography ​ ​

Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi was born in Tehran, Iran on October 31, 1960, to the late

Mohammad Reza Shah and Empress Farah Pahlavi of Iran. He is the eldest of four children. He was officially named Crown Prince in 1967 at his father’s coronation ceremony. He attended private school in Iran and at the age of 17, left Iran in 1978 to start jet fighter training in the

United States Air Force at the Reese Air Force Base in Lubbock, Texas. The Iranian Revolution in 1978-79 led to the departure of his family from Iran in January 1979. The government of Iran was taken over by Islamist, which instituted a theocratic regime that prevents him from returning to his homeland. After completion of his jet fighter training at Reese Air Force base, he continued his education at the University of Southern California with a degree in Political

Science. As an accomplished jet fighter pilot, he offered his services to his country during the

Iran-Iraq war but was declined by the clerical regime. His deep commitment and loyalty to his countrymen remain strong as he has spent the last forty years of his exile championing and advocating for human rights, equality, democracy, and freedom for the people of Iran. Crown

Prince Pahlavi gives speeches in the United States and abroad as well as meets with heads of

Mardirossian 7 state, legislators, policymakers, lawmakers, and student groups worldwide to discuss and speak out about the difficulties Iranians endure under the Islamic regime. He calls for the end of oppression and abuse of the Iranian people through the institution of a secular democracy with a assessable and free referendum on a new government with a regime change through non-violent civil disobedience. Crown Prince Pahlavi is also an accomplished published writer. He has written three books on the state of affairs in Iran, Winds of Change: The Future of Democracy in ​ Iran (2001), Gozashteh va Ayandeh (2000), and IRAN: L’Heure du Choix, (The Declining Hour), ​ ​ ​ ​ (2009). Still, to this date, he is a leading and vocal advocate for his countrymen in bringing ​ attention to the free world their struggles for liberation, equality, and freedom.

Mardirossian 8 The Revolution that Rocked Iran and The Middle East

My father, an Armenian born in Tehran in the mid-1950s, often referred to Tehran as the

“Paris of the Middle East.” What happened to that cosmopolitan city? The Iranian Islamic

Revolution is what happened. The revolution was a result of the discontent and uprising of women and student organizations who became revolutionaries. These revolutionaries later joined forces with radical religious leaders. Their joint forces, and led by exiled Iranian Marja,

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, placed Iran in a state of extreme turmoil and chaos during the last six months of 1979.1 Why were these citizens rebelling and protesting against the Shah of Iran, when Iran was prospering economically, socially, and structurally? Discontent stemmed from the revolutionary’s socio-economic status and oppression of speech. The radical religious leaders in

Iran were in opposition to western influence and adamantly against secular rule. When the Carter

Administration pulled their position of support from the Shah and covertly backed Khomeini in later part 1979, this change in tactic advanced the revolution.2 The revolution lasted from 1978 to

1979 and ended when the Shah left Iran on January 16, 1979. He thought was a short trip to calm down months of protest and strikes, but within days, Khomeini returned to Iran and the government changed from an autocratic rule to theocratic rule. A bloodbath ensued, freedom of choice and strong economic growth and development ended.3 Thus, to understand the Iranian

Revolution, one must examine Iran as a country, its leaders, as well as its impact on the stability

1 YOUSSEF M. IBRAHIMN, "INSIDE IRAN'S CULTURAL REVOLUTION," The New York ​ ​ Times, October 19, 1979, 3-4, accessed November 13, 2018, ​ https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/14/archives/inside-irans-cultural-revolution-iran.html. 2 Krysta Wise, "Islamic Revolution of 1979: The Downfall of American-Iranian Relations," ​ Legacy, last modified 2011, accessed November 13, 2018, https://www.fpri.org/article/2009/09/the-u-s-and-iran-in-historical-perspective/. 3 IBRAHIMN, 3-4. ​

Mardirossian 9 of the Middle East pre and post-revolution; ultimately determining if they are all better off today as a result of the uprising.

Understanding a country’s history is vital to providing perspective on its leaders and its people. The Qajar Dynasty, initially of Turkish origin, ruled Persia, now Iran, from 1794 to 1925 until a non-violent coup d’etat occurred in Tehran in 1921. An Iranian journalist, Sayyid Zia al

Din Tabatabai led the coup along with the military forces of the Persian Cossack Brigade, which was led by their minister of war, Colonel Reza Khan. Three months after taking office, Tabatabai resigned and subsequently left the country. Reza Khan took over his duties of government oversight. Ahmad Shah, recognizing that he would be ousted as the Shah, appointed Reza Khan as prime minister and left the country, never to return.4

At this time the country was financially stable due to royalties from the Anglo-Persian

Oil Company. Liberals and supporters of Reza Khan pressed for a republican regime like that of

Turkey. Reza Khan was keen on this idea, but the Majlis(parliament) was strongly against dissolving the monarchy. Whereas, in February 1925, the Majlis appointed Reza Khan as a lifetime commander in chief of the armed forces. Reza Khan was opposed to social and military titles and set an example by choosing Pahlavi as his family name. Subsequently, the Qajar dynasty formally ended on October 31, 1925, when a new Majlis chose Reza Pahlavi as the first

Shah of this new dynasty. After a formal coronation ceremony on April 25, 1926, Reza

Pahlavi’s son, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi became the crown prince of Iran.5

4 Glenn E. Curtis and Eric J. Hooglund, Iran: A Country Study, 5th ed. (Washington, DC: ​ ​ ​ ​ Federal Research Division, Library of Congress, 2008), 52. 5 Curtis and Hooglund, 52. ​

Mardirossian 10 A new era and dynasty began in Iran with Reza Shah Pahlavi’s rule from 1925 to 1941.

His goals were to industrialize and westernize Iran with the intent of keeping and reimposing

Iranian traditions that were in agreement with modernization. Also, in an effort to unify the culturally diverse country, the Majlis passed a “uniform dress law.” This law made western clothes a requirement, in that it would be easier for women to transition to the workforce from home life. Women wearing veils were also forbidden. Reforms took place in 1927, with the introduction of the French Judicial System, whereas civil marriage and divorce codes were established. These codes took the responsibility of civil law away from the religious leaders as well as their direct control over religious trust funds and teachings. On the global front, a fundamental change occurred for Reza Shah in 1939 when Iran declared its neutrality in World

War II. Relations between Iran, Great Britain, and the Soviet Union deteriorated because he stood his ground on being neutral. As a result, Great Britain and the Soviet Union concurrently invaded Iran on August 26, 1941. After three days of a weak resistance, both countries occupied

Iran. Because of his neutral position, Reza Shah knew they would expel him from power so he abdicated the throne to his son, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. Reza Shah was sent to Mauritius and then to South Africa where he died in 1944. That occupation of Iran turned out to be a positive move for the allied forces, who together with America, moved 5 million tons of war materials across Iran.6

A new pro-western cabinet came into office that was in alliance with the Shah’s White

Revolution plan of westernizing Iran. An assassination attempt of the Shah’s life in February

1949, blamed on the Tudeh Party, led to the party being banned. The Shah also decided that,

6 Curtis and Hooglund, 54-55. ​

Mardirossian 11 “This represented the second of a series of miracles-the first being the recovery of of

Azerbaijan-and a clear sign from God that the Shah has a “mission for his country.”7

With a more secure country, the Majlis, with the help of American financial advisors approved

a seven year plan for agriculture and industrialization of Iran. They also made efforts in

re-negotiating a more favorable settlement for Iran with AIOC.8

Iran’s stability and independence was vital to the United States and other European countries, because of its oil, and the Shah and Parliament were a key ally against Communism.

Therefore, it was beneficial for them to keep Iran from succumbing to the Soviet Union during this Cold War era. Internally, Marxism ideologies were gaining popularity with the younger generation and political party groups, such as the banned Tudeh Party, who were seeking power within government. Iran went through a series of various political party’s attempts to strip the

Shah of his power and take over Parliament.9

The Shah faced a new adversary when Parliament appointed Mohammad Mossadegh, founder of the National Front Party, as prime minister in March of 1951. His agenda and mission for Iran were not in line with the Shah’s modernization plans and reforms.10 Mossadegh was a great public speaker and his anti-British rhetoric commanded large crowds and support, including that of the Communist Tudeh Party. The Shah had little control over Mossadegh, due to his mass popularity, as he implemented strict new censorship laws, removed the upper house of Parliament, Supreme Court, and other repressive and authoritarian measures, such as getting

7 Curtis and Hooglund, 52. ​ 8 Curtis and Hooglund, 59. ​ 9 Wise, Legacy, 5,8. ​ 10 Andrew Scott Cooper, The Fall of Heaven: The Pahlavis and the Final Days of Imperial Iran (New York, ​ ​ ​ NY: Henry Holt, 2016), 70,73.

Mardirossian 12 rid of political dissidents.11 The Shah was isolated and ignored by his ministers and realized that he had lost his standing. If he removed Mossadegh as prime minister, he knew it would tarnish his legitimacy and provoke street riots. He stated that, “Staying in Tehran would mean that I approve of the policies of the prime minister. It is absolutely imperative that we go abroad.”12

Concern arose because Mossadegh was breaking up unity in the country and leaving the door open for the reamerged Tudeh Party and the Soviet Union to seize power. Ultimately, the Shah and his wife left Tehran in February 1953 for an extended vacation abroad.13

Mossadegh’s plan to obtain absolute power over the government and his alignment with

Kashani, a Shia Muslim Cleric and right-wing religious radical, caused great concern with the

United States and other non-communist countries. The Shah “ labeled these two groups “the Red and the Black” and for the rest of his life warned against this unholy alliance of socialist conniving with the clergy to seize power.”14 This alliance became a reality as Mossadegh and

Kashani joined forces against him. As sixty percent of the world’s oil reserves at that time were located in the Persian Gulf region, it was unfathomable that the Soviet Union might take it over.

15 The United States understood a more global effect of Mossadegh seizing power from the Shah.

Hence, President Eisenhower and the CIA, in conjunction with Britain, were planning a coup d'etat against Mossadeq-code name Operation Ajax.16 In August 1953, news broke that Prime

Minister Mossadegh was overthrown and General Zahedi was instilled as Iran’s prime minister.

11 Curtis and Hooglund, 58-61. ​ 12 Cooper, 73. ​ 13 Cooper, 65. ​ 14 Cooper, 70. ​ 15 Cooper, 72. ​ 16 Wise, Legacy, 1. ​

Mardirossian 13 Martial Law was in effect and the Shah returned to Iran.17 To strengthen the Shah’s regime against further takeover attempts by communist and radical religious leaders, the CIA in conjunction with Israel helped organize Iran’s National Security Agency, the SAVAK. The

United State also aided Iran economically and in their arms expansion. The Shah took measures to exert stronger and tighter control over Parliament and government by narrowing Parliament to one party. The Shah personally presided over weekly cabinet meetings. He now was in a position to rule his country and carry out his policies for the betterment of the country and his people without the interference of outside parties, as well as have backing from a new national security force.18

The next priority for the Shah was, “to make Iran into a modern nation, firstly to give our people the material comfort to which they have a right on earth, whilst protecting and strengthening true spiritual and moral ideals.”19 His first objective was, “bread for everyone, housing for everyone, clothes for everyone, hygiene for everyone, and lastly, education for everyone.”20 Starting with these five principles of needs, he would end up with an additional fourteen that became the pillars of the White Revolution. Literacy rates catapulted with education reforms and establishments of more schools reaching rural villages, as well as higher education.21 Rapid modernization went into effect to provide Iranians with increased water supply, increased production of electricity, and infrastructure.22 President Kennedy also encouraged the Shah’s plans of social reforms, such as Agrarian land reform, which resulted in

17 Curtis and Hooglund, 62,63. ​ 18 Cooper, 79-83. ​ 19 Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, The Shah's Story (Great Britain: Michael Joseph Ltd, 1980), 71. ​ ​ ​ 20 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 71. ​ ​ ​ 21 Cooper, 101-106. ​ 22 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 75-88. ​ ​ ​

Mardirossian 14 over two million peasants becoming landowners.23 Importantly, women’s suffrage reforms were also being implemented. Farah, the Shah’s new wife and partner, was a great and passionate advocate for women and children’s rights. The Shah treated Farah as a strong, intelligent woman and partner. Their marriage broke the mold of the conservative Muslim marriage and the traditional rules of society, whereas spouses were in public expected to remain silent.24 Hence, women’s suffrage and their education made huge strides during his reign. He recognized that women are just as important and beneficial to society as men.25 Many other reforms were initiated, such as curtailing corruption and tackling inflation.26

Iran was growing and improving every day. With all of these reforms directed at lifting up the people of Iran, why did the people revolt? Through my interview with Crown Prince Reza

Pahlavi, perspective was gained on the climate within Iran during this time. He stated that people argue three points of discontent. First, political liberalism was very limited in Iran. The one party systems was implemented in Parliament to restrict the Communist Party from taking over government. Various people wanted more political power. Secondly, social inadequacies were another source of displeasure. Thirdly, you had Marxist forces whose agenda was anti-imperialism and anti-westernization as well as the die-hard Islamist whose own agenda of a legal system and government was based on religious law. Also, Iran’s growth and progress was based on an implementation of a new system. Pahlavi made the point that with any new system, mistakes were made and problems occured that needed to be solved. Given more time, these

23 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 73. ​ ​ ​ 24 Cooper, 4-5. ​ 25 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 112. ​ ​ ​ 26 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 101-106. ​ ​ ​

Mardirossian 15 problems and mistakes could of been corrected without an overthrow of the regime. Often enough, people do not realize what they have at the time and want something more or different.27

How did discontentment lead to a revolution? Exiled Ayatollah Khomeini, together with the mullahs, preached and campaigned for a decade and a half. They called for Iranians to revolt and come out for independence, freedom, and an Islamic Republic. Khomeini needed large mobs of people for protest and riots. He found this in young adults and students. Many were attracted to his message of more freedom and responded to his call. Young students and Marxist forces joined together with the die-hard Islamist to create a powerful union to overthrow the Pahlavi regime.28 A middle aged women who heard Khomeini’s call and supported him admitting post revolution that, “she had known little about the exiled old man who had been preaching revolt for 15 years, but what she’s heard sounded good. They fooled us, This is no revolution, It’s a mullah’s game.29 They did not get freedom.

How did Khomeini add fever to explode his movement? Manipulation and the media were artfully used to stir up the emotion of rage. On January 7, 1978, hundreds of women in

Qom took to the streets protesting for the return of the veil and segregation in public by gender.

The police stood away as religious students poured out into the streets from their seminaries and chanted anti-regime slogans. Later that evening, a letter of opinion published in the newspaper,

Ettelaat, attacked the Ayatollah Khomeini accusing the Marja of fraud and deceit. Khomeini ​ followers in Qom were distraught with such a slanderous attack on a pious and brave Marja and blamed the attack on the Shah. They took to the streets and burned the newsstands of the

27 Personal Interview, Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi,12/8/18 ​ 28 IBRAHIMN, 4-5. ​ 29 IBRAHIMN, 5. ​

Mardirossian 16 Ettelaat. On January 9th, a mob of thousands ripped through Qom attacking and setting fire to ​ banks, bookstores that sold non-religious reading materials, government offices, girls’ schools, and anything associated with Western influence. The Khomeini supporters reached the number of 20,000 by nightfall and stormed a police station trying to force their way inside while setting cars on fire while chanting, “death to the Shah.” The police positioned themselves on the rooftop and fired upon the rioters. As a result, five people were killed and nine were injured.30

Khomeini’s strategy included provoking public anger against the regime by organizing demonstrations that turn violent and force the security police to respond. Therefore, they could publicize the civilian casualties which would ignite more anger and riots. This strategy led to more violence and counter violence, which ignited more hate, anger, and momentum against the regime.31 Consequently, with this incident, the revolution had begun.32

Despite the increasing chaos, the Shah’s dictum was for the SAVAK to steer clear of violence. According to Parviz Sabeti, Deputy of the SAVAK, “The Shah’s policy is doomed to fail: he could not, on the one hand, to expect the security forces to maintain order while insisting they avoid violence.”33 This sentiment on non-violence was again echoed by Queen Farah. She stated that “Some advocated a peaceful, political solution. Others begged him to allow the army to open fire, to which the king invariably replied that a monarch cannot save his throne if the cost is the blood of his compatriots. A dictator can, but not a monarch.”34 Despite the riots and threat to his sovereignty, the Shah did not want his people hurt. This was in vast contrast to biased

30 Cooper, 287-291. ​ 31 Cooper, 292. ​ 32 Cooper, 287-291. ​ 33 Cooper, 292. ​ 34 Farah, An Enduring Love: My Life with the Shah : a Memoir (New York: Miramax, 2005), 3. ​ ​ ​

Mardirossian 17 media reports of the violence overcoming Iran.35 Due to the escalation of violence, U.S.

Ambassador Sullivan sent word to Washington stating that, “There was a very real danger that the regime would lose control and find itself in a confrontation with “fundamentalist religious leader, as had happened in 1963.”36 He further communicated in February of 1978, that extremist and moderate(National Front) groups were conspiring and coordinating against the regime. Their conspiracy was heating up, for to further undermine the Shah’s authority, revolutionaries escalated their guerrilla activities and protest. The Shah’s security forces faced increased violence, bomb threats, vandalism, and terrorist attacks.37 The Shah worried about internal politics as well as foreign influence. His new prime minister, Mr. Amouzegar, announced on

Constitution Day, August 5, 1978, that the regime would become close to a Western democracy.

He declared that elections would take place in the spring of 1980. The Shah stated that “Anyone in opposition to the present government could solicit votes on condition that he or she respected the Constitution, which is at the basis of democracy.”38 This measure which should have been met with approval was construed as a sign of weakness. The Shah now had no doubts that the only goal of the opposition was to overthrow his regime and not one of more freedom.39

There were two key tragic events that defined and provided advantage to the revolutionaries and Khomeini. The first occurred on the celebration of National Uprising Day of

August 19, 1953. A cinema in Abadan was set on fire and killed 477 people who were trapped inside.40 The opposition blamed the government for this heinous crime41 Khomeini issued a

35 Cooper, 295. ​ 36 Cooper, 293. ​ 37 Cooper, 295 ​ 38 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 172. ​ ​ ​ 39 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story , 171. ​ ​ ​ 40 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 173. ​ ​ ​

Mardirossian 18 statement three days later citing, “This heart-rending tragedy is intended by the Shah to be his masterpiece, to provide material to be exploited to the utmost by his extensive domestic and foreign propaganda apparatus. Who benefits from these crimes other than the Shah and his accomplices.”42 This tragedy and Khomeini’s public statement enraged the people of Iran and the revolutionaries gained even more fever. Perfectly orchestrated by Khomeini at the time, it would be later when the truth would emerge. As written by Aria Izadpanach, “...but in later years, it was proven that the burning was done by a group of radical Islamist.”43 The second key event happened on September 7, 1978 when Martial Law was declared by the government.44 The following day thousands of protestors gathered in Jaleh Square, Tehran. The soldiers attempts to break up the crowd were ignored. A journalist and several other eyewitnesses reported that shots had been fired from apartments that overlooked the square, stating that if the shooter's intent was to shoot into the crowd and cause a gun battle, they succeeded. Later, shots were fired within the crowd. The soldiers coming under fire, fired back. Total chaos ensued. Author, Anderson Cooper writes that “Confirmation of an attack on the soldiers came from Islamists themselves. At Jaleh

Square, there were people among the crowd who used guns. Admitted Ali Hossein.”45 This tragic event is known as “Black Friday” and is marked as the point of no return. It is believed to mark the end of the Shah’s support to stay in power.46

41 Copper, 376. ​ 42 Cooper, 378. ​ 43 Citation for OHP used: Izadpanah, Aria. The 1979 Iranian Revolution. January 6th, 2010, ​ American Century Project St. Andrew’s Episcopal School. 15. 44 Wise, Legacy, 5. ​ 45 Cooper, 401. ​ 46 Cooper, 315,388. ​

Mardirossian 19 Subsequently, in October, a strike in the petroleum industry shut down oil production, which was essential to the administration's survival.47 The United States made an official statement on December 8, 1978, it declared that they would not interfere in Iran but the U.S. and

British Ambassadors continued to verbally voice their support. Next, the Shah’s Prime Minister,

Shahpur Bakhtiar, convinced the Shah to leave Iran until the tensions and unrest settled down, while other cabinet members begged him not to leave. On January 16, 1979, the Shah and Queen left Iran, hoping that this two-week departure would calm the country, satisfy the hate, and put an end to the assassins.48

The Revolution came to an end. Ayatollah Khomeini returned to Iran a few days after the

Shah’s departure.49 My Aunt, an Armenian who worked in the government, was advised to leave the country immediately for her own safety. She left behind all of her assets and departed for the airport. As she was not allowed to take her possessions with her, she sewed her jewelry into the hem of her skirt. She was searched and questioned at the airport and luckily was allowed to leave. She made it out alive, but in a few days that would not have been the case. Shahpur

Bakhtiar was shortly condemned to death. News of the Shah’s staff and officers being killed reached the Shah in Egypt. Professionals, such as doctors, lawyers, businessmen, bankers, and sportsmen were being killed for reason of “corrupted on earth”, which is defined in the Koran as any person who sins, questions, or has a vice offensive to the Lord. These trials were called

Islamic Tribunals, which replaced the previously established trial and justice system in Iran.50

Like my aunt, many Iranians fled the country. Khomeini installed himself as “supreme leader” of

47 Cooper, 186-189. ​ 48 Cooper, 186-189. ​ 49 Wise, Legacy, 7. ​ 50 Pahlavi, The Shah’s Story, 193. ​

Mardirossian 20 Iran. As declared by Khomeini, “The Revolution must cut off the hands of the rotten. Blood must be shed. The more Iran bleeds, the more victorious the revolution will be.”51 Unfortunately, those are words of a dictator and not a monarch. Sadly, Khomeini’s false promise of a new age of freedom resulted in the brutal Islamic Republic, a theocracy that stripped away freedom, prosperity, growth, and women’s rights with bloodshed and death.52

Hence, news of the Shah’s departure reached the United States via The New York Times. ​ ​ On January 16, 1979, it was published that the Shah and his family would depart Iran the next day for an extended stay in Egypt and the U.S. The reason for his departure was reported as a means of relieving the tension in his country. They also reported that Bakhtiar, the new prime minister, received backing from Iran’s upper house of government. The paper quoted Bakhtiar as saying that, “after the Senate vote today that he hoped Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the principal Muslim opposition leader, would return to Iran from exile in France after the Shah leaves, and take a Gandhi-like role.”53 Whereas, Khomeini himself sat for an interview with CBS news the past Friday and stated that he expected to direct and supervise the forming of the

Islamic Republic in a few days. The article further states that an American engineer was murdered in Iran on this day. On a wall near his residence it was written “Go home to your own country” His ethnicity was Jewish and it is believed that extremist committed the crime along with another murder of an American citizen earlier.54

51 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 197. ​ ​ ​ 52 Pahlavi, The Shah's Story, 197. ​ ​ ​ 53 Gage, Nicholas. "SHAH SAID TO PLAN TO LEAVE IRAN TODAY FOR EGYPT AND ​ U.S."The New York Times. Accessed November 18, 2018. https://www.nytimes.com/ ​ ​ 1979/01/16/archives/1/16/1979 Shah-said-to-plan-to-leave-iran-today-for-egypt-and-us-he-is.html. 1-3. 54 Gage, "SHAH SAID," 2,3. ​

Mardirossian 21 The BBC also reported on the events in Iran on January 16, 1979, with a bit more detail.

They stated that Prime Minister Bakhtiar asked the Shah to leave the country, but also that the official report was that the Shah was vacationing and seeking medical treatment. It was written that for the past three months there have been violent confrontations between the security forces and anti-Shah demonstrators resulting in the declaration of Martial Law since September 8th.

Widespread strikes, (1,000 oil industry workers), rallies, and riots were reported across Iran.

Muslim traditionalist united behind Khomeini, who was exiled in France while leading the opposition movement. Finally, it was reported that Khomeini declared a Revolutionary Islamic

Council on January 13, 1979, to replace the illegal government of the Shah’s regime. Meanwhile thousands of U.S. and British ex-patriots fled the country because they were being attacked. The article concludes by stating Germany, U.S., and Britain support the Shah.55 The BBC report gave a better picture of what happened in Iran after the Shah’s departure.

A more accurate report would follow in October of 1979 as reported by The New York ​ Times writer, Youssef M. Ibrahimn conveyed the tyranny that blindsided many of the revolution ​ supporters. Mr. Ibrahimn reported that most of these technocrats, engineers, doctors, lawyers, bankers, and other professionals supported the revolution. They were drawn and motivated to serve in the Islamic Republic by a promise of “a new age of freedom.” He added that, “But within months, it became clear that Iran was on a verge of a new and different dictatorship. A puritanical, totalitarian regime presided over by the Muslim priest of the Shiite Clergy, the mullahs tightened its grip on this strategic oil nation, sweeping away all forms of opposition,

55 "1979: Shah of Iran flees into exile," BCC On This Day, 1-2, accessed November 13, 2018, ​ ​ ​ http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/16/newsid_2530000/2530475.stm. ​

Mardirossian 22 formulation of new laws and rules designed to mold Iran into a theocratic state.”56 The new age of freedom turned out to be an Iran that was more stringent and controlled than ever before. Iran is now a country where women’s right are disappearing, music is banned, political opponents of the new regime are killed, unemployment is rising and that the new constitution is based on fully on Islam. The new regime was not too pleased with Ibrahimn’s factual reporting, he was later expelled from Iran.57

After 39 years of a theocratic rule in Iran, how is the revolution of 1979 historically interpreted today? My father lived in Iran during the Shah’s reign, and viewpoint is that “The

Shah kept peace in the Middle East. He was a good and intelligent man who greatly understood his people, extremism, and politics of the region. He took in Armenians and Jews when they had no home, we prospered there, we were happy there. It was a vast mistake of the Carter

Administration to believe they knew what was best for Iran at the time. They backed the wrong man.”58 Krista Wise, of Southern Illinois University, reflects on the downfall of the

American-Iranian relations as a result of the revolution. Her interpretation is that America gained power over Iran when the U.S. intervened and reinstated Mohammad Shah in 1953 and used that power to their advantage. She stated that “The U.S. propelled the Shah, who also was known as the “American Puppet,” into a domineering leader over the Iranian government masses.”59 She further conveys that this festered hatred towards the Shah and the U.S.. She states that SAVAK

56 IBRAHIMN, 1-2. ​ 57 IBRAHIMN, 3-7. ​ 58 Mardirossian, Aris, Personal Interview, 11/14/18 ​ 59 Wise, Legacy, 2. ​

Mardirossian 23 killed and tortured thousands of political opponents and that the White Revolution, which was inspired by America, was a failure.60

To the contrary, Andrew Scott Cooper, a historian of U.S.-Iran relations, has a different perspective. He found that the Shah’s rule and the revolution were clouded by, “The controversy and confusion that surrounded his human rights record overshadowed his many real accomplishments in the fields of women’s rights, literacy, health care, education, and modernization.”61 Lead researcher, Emad al-Din Baghi, examined and studied the 100,000 human rights violations reported to have occurred under the regime. He could not verify or match the names and data as many false names were given. He concluded that the death toll was actually 383, of which 197 were terrorist and guerrilla fighters killed in confrontations with the security forces. His research was suppressed in Iran but did lead to other research taking place by historians outside of the country, such as Andrew Scott Cooper. Cooper interviewed foreign news correspondents and revolutionaries that portrayed and shaped the Shah’s image as a

“blood-soaked tyrant.”62 Further, he visited the state organization in Tehran that compiled the

Pahlavi era human rights violations and spoke with past and present statisticians who verified that Baghi’s figures were accurate and credible. Cooper also verified that the revolutionary cinema fire that killed 477 people and was blamed on the Shah was carried out by a Khomeini terrorist cell. Cooper concludes that his research as well as Baghi’s, “...shows the extent to which the historical record was manipulated by Khomeini and his partisans to criminalize the Shah and justify their own excesses and abuses.”63 He further concluded by saying, “The Shah matters as

60 Wise, Legacy, 2. ​ 61 Cooper, 10. ​ ​ 62 Cooper, 11. ​ ​ 63 Cooper, 11. ​ ​

Mardirossian 24 much for his failures as for his successes. Though today, he is remembered in the West as a brutal dictator forced from power by brave people, this one-dimensional narrative is an airbrush of the historical record.”64 Thus, “the manipulation of history, as was reported at the time, distorted the true corruption, terrorism, and human right violations that were occurring in Iran by

Khomeini and his revolutionaries.’’65

The Iranian Revolution and the removal of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi not only changed the dynamics of a country, region, and its people, but its impact, like tentacles of an octopus, reached out and stung the United States of America. Gary Sick of The Iran Primer, wrote, ​ ​ “When the monarchy was overthrown, the United States and other countries in the world go their first real introduction to radical political Islam…”66 That personal introduction came on

November 4, 1979, when a batch of Iranian students seized the U.S Embassy in Tehran and took more than fifty American diplomats hostage, which resulted in a 444-day standoff and captivity period. With the protective shield for the U.S. that President Nixon and Henry Kissinger cultivated with The Shah and Saudi Arabia gone, diplomacy between our two countries was replaced with a vast hate and intolerance for America and its western values.67 Consequently, the region also faced repercussions and upheaval because of the revolution. The Soviet Union, gaining confidence from the Shah’s overthrow, invaded Afghanistan in December of 1979. Also, in an effort to bring down the new Islamic Theocratic Republic, the Iran-Iraq war began in

64 Cooper, 9. ​ ​ 65 Cooper, 5-11. ​ ​ 66 Gary Sick, "The Carter Administration," The Iran Primer, ​ https://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/carter-administration-0. 1. ​ 67 Sick, The Iran Primer, 1-5. ​

Mardirossian 25 September of 1980. The U.S. supported Saddam Hussein. In 1991, Saddam Hussein invaded

Kuwait and the U.S, Egypt, France, and others joined forces against Iraq in the Gulf War.

Needless to say, the Middle East was in chaos. At the hands of religious extremists, the terror that erupted throughout Iran in 1978 and 1979 became more organized and labeled, for on

September 11, 2001, the United States was attached by the terrorist group Al-Qaeda.68 This assault and the countless loss of life forever changed our domestic and national security as well as the worlds. Thirty-nine years after the revolution, we are still battling terrorist groups, such as

ISIS and the Taliban. Emboldened by the revolution, these terror groups are still trying to take strongholds in countries like Syria and other Muslim countries in order to establish other Islamic

Republics. The danger of a theocratic government is evident because Iran’s theocratic rule set it at war with anyone who violates their “corrupted on earth” laws. The Iranian Revolution is proof that any government that is ruled by a radical interpretation of religion, which robs its citizens of basic freedoms and liberties is a threat to any country that does not conform with their religious beliefs. September 11, 2001, is proof and evidence of that threat.

68 Mehmet Ozalp, "World politics explainer: the Iranian Revolution," The Conversation, last ​ modified September 7, 2018, http://theconversation.com/world-politics-explainer-the-iranian-revolution-100453. 1-6. ​

Mardirossian 26

Interview Transcription ​ ​ Interviewee/Narrator: Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi Interviewer: Karis Mardirossian Location: Congressional Country Club, Bethesda, Maryland Date: December 8, 2018 This interview was transcribed and edited by Karis Mardirossian

Karis Mardirossian: This is Karis Mardirossian and I am interviewing the Crown Prince Reza ​ Pahlavi on the topic of the Islamic Revolution as part of the American Century Oral History Project. This interview took place on December 8, at 12:00 pm, located in Bethesda, Maryland. This interview was recorded using phones. First off, I wanted to take the time to thank you for agreeing to have this interview and for taking the time ah to share your reflection.

Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi: You are most welcome. ​

KM: First off I wanted to ask what was it like growing up in Iran in the ’70s? ​

CPRP: It was a very interesting era in the sense that my generation came into life at a time ​ where most of the upheavals and crisis and difficulties in the post second world war era were by then gone. And overall the ’60s was a period of ah construction, development and even though at that time Iran’s eh eh overall income in terms of resources ah that were produced as a result ah of the sale of oil which our our our predominant ah source of income and later on become much more, therefore,(clear throat) there were much more plans implemented in the country. It was really a country that was growing day by day. The economy was becoming stronger and stronger, more and more people were getting engaged, ah students were coming back from ah all over the world and bringing back their their knowledge and technology that went into whole host of ah various projects within the country, so it was a very interesting period, so um as I said for my generation that never had to leave the period (cleared throat) of the middle of the 20th century and the second world war and all that. Ah,it was a... quite a positive period all over and I think it is not just limited to Iran I think most of this happened including in Europe itself. Uhm, and so my memories growing up in Iran was ah (cough) mostly peppered by my own recollection of traveling to various parts of Iran and talking to various people all you know from... for instance, ah… ah….ah… in the south I would go and spend time with the fishermen on their boats or I would go the Caspians and talk to their villagers or I would go to some parts of it. It was very interesting in terms of ah ah understanding not just the topography and climate and locations but also my interactions in a very casual nonofficial sometimes even incognito matter with people. Aside from my functions as the quote-unquote Crown Prince which had some ceremonial aspect to it and official aspects to it and after all I was first and foremost a student

Mardirossian 27 going to school like every other kid with the same curriculum and I had my friends and my high school ah mates and you know we would have field trips and what have you, so it was a period of growing up in that context overall. (cleared throat)

KM: Wow! What was one of your family traditions in Iran? ​

CPRP: Family traditions? I don’t know if you call it traditions specific to our family we would ​ just basically follow ah you know ah the celebrations of various ah occasions whether it was the Persian New Year or if it was, ah for instance, ah ahm other forms of ahm traditional celebrations that we had part of our culture but was most probably around ah the period of ah Nowruz, which is our New Year that I would recall we would be of course celebrating as family. We would gather and would have cousins and uncles and aunts and everybody together on that day. Ahm.. That's perhaps the most ah evidence what I can think of.

KM: Was any of those your particular like one of your favorites? ​

CPRP: Ah ya, I think Nowruz, (chuckle) was first and foremost a period of vacation from ​ school,(laugh) so we always liked it. Ah, it’s a little bit like the Christmas holidays here where for a while the kids are off school so from that sense it was a period of ah vacation and relaxation which was fun. And it was also the right time of the year because it the first day of Spring so the climate is nice, the weather is nice, it’s overall quite ah i think perhaps one of my favorite ah Iranian holidays or or ah celebrations.

KM:[4:30] That’s really cool. Please tell me a little about your schooling, your education ​ ​ background in Iran.

CPRP: As I said, Ahm, ah I followed the exact same curriculum that every student in Iran would ​ would follow. We were studying the same textbooks ah the teachers (breath) that would teach at a a school that was created for me and a number of my ah classmates which was not a public school it was uhm set in within in the the compound where one of the palaces ah was for security reasons, but we followed the exact same curriculum. Teachers that were teaching other school was also teaching our school so it was pretty much the same standard format that that we went through.(cough) and as such, uh you know I followed exactly the same curriculum as any other student would. Ah in addition to that education, I would have some peripheral ahm you know ahm exposure to as I got older as to the functioning of various entities government or otherwise in the country getting some briefings sometimes visiting myself outside the school curriculum,

Mardirossian 28 but a combination of both would be what I would call part of my overall grooming or education, not just the academics aspect but also you know getting to know more about how things are working.

KM: Did ah the kids in your school treat you like any other kid, ​

CPRP: yep ​

KM: knowing that ​

CPRP: yep ​

KM: your fathers? ​

CPRP: Ya, I mean we were completely, ah how can I say there were no filters or nothing. I ​ mean we were very comfortable with each other. We were ah truly, ah you know friends first and foremost. Ah there was no aspect of decorum or protocol or any of that kind of stuff. And in fact, that is what I enjoyed the most ah being like everyone else as opposed to you know being treated differently because of my title or what have you, which I disliked, to begin with( laugh)- as such so there was always this paradox between when it is I have to function as a public figure that I was and when it was I was my true self with my true friends and fortunately that's what my friends were able to give me, that sense of normalcy outside of the projection or the expectation that people sometimes have of somebody who is a member of the royal family or what have you.

KM: That’s really cool. Let’s see, um what was it like having your father in power? ​

CPRP: (sip of water) But the way I looked at at my father was in a sense more,(cleared throat) ​ more that the person that he was in his function, than okay I am going to see my dad. Oddly enough, because the truth is as a family, (cough) both my father and mother were so engaged in their duties that we we seldom had the time to have our family time together. Except for periods where we would be on vacation, where we would hang out. It would be more of a family setting and ah summertime was the period where we most enjoyed that moment to ourselves. But on a daily basis, you know I would not see my parents long enough. Like in the morning, I would get up ah the school was within walking distance. It would take me five minutes to walk from you know ah where I live to the school. On my way, I might have dropped by in the morning to say a quick hello to my dad who usually at the time would already be having his breakfast and reading the daily papers before going to his office of for that matter for my mother, just a few minutes,

Mardirossian 29 go back to school, back from school, maybe see them occasionally or they would drop by to visit us in our house but between homework or what have you, we really didn’t spend that much time, but so so it was funny because in a way I said okay this is the king of the country doing his stuff and then on vacation okay he is dad, let's go an uh and water ski together or do it in a boat ride together, was a big difference,so depending on the the routine, ah you know it was that that dual personality one is the official responsibility role as opposed to hey here’s mom and dad.

KM: yah ​

CPRP: You know what I am saying? (cleared throat) ​

KM: (Moving a paper) What was your impression of the United States at the time of the ​ revolution?

CPRP: By that you mean the politics? ​

KM:[8:39] Yah, I Yah ​ ​

CPRP: Well I mean clearly( cleared throat) the period where I had just left Iran 6 months before ​ my parents did, so that was 6 months literally before ah the revolution, was the summer of 1978.(cough) I had just---graduated from uhm high school. I was on my way to the ah air force base in Lubbock, Texas, Rese Air Force base for for the ah undergraduate ah pilot training program of the US Air Force. Ah I was supposed to spend about a year in Texas before going back home and of course, that never occurred because the revolution took place. Ah, well a lot of the politics of that time ah basically surrounds the Carter Administration and their take on the situation and what happened and what not. Ah and I remember in the final months, ah the (cleared throat) the increase ah ah….in highly mediatized revolutionary fervor within Iran and Khomeini in France and how the coverage was getting in the media and how the government would react, but at some point, one has to say that part of the ah ah situation that gave way to the revolution was no doubt ah the policies and decisions that were made at the time by the American Administration, ah which was the Carter Administration. So ah when you think of it now 40 years later and think of the consequences of it, I think most people say that this was indeed ah something that was ah overall a net net loss to the country and the United States from in terms of its interest but you know, Monday morning quarterbacking is easy always and in the heat of the moment whether the decision were correct or incorrect or right or wrong or beneficial or not or or er you know er expedient or not, you know I am sure a lot of people will struggle with this for a long time and historians will eventually draw a conclusion, but if I wanted to be very brief and bold and honest about it, I think it was a disaster. ( Laugh)

Mardirossian 30 KM: Mmhm, yah.------In your opinion, in your opinion, what was the root cause of the Islamic ​ Revolution?

CPRP: ---There is always a pretext that triggers those who try to utilize that pretext but with ​ some specific ends in mind. Uhm, if you say was it really a revolution based on people’s livelihood and poverty, you can’t say that because the country was getting better and better every day. Yes, there are always poor people in any society as there are some today in America or in Japan, but overall all if you look at the standard of living, the nets income per capita that was on an increase, a double-digit economy in growth exemplary and unique to our region and overall where Iran was going, you can say the cause was social uh inadequacies.(background noise) Some people argue that the degree of political liberalism was very limited although today you can say at the time, if look at the way the world was you have constant dominance of the Soviet Union and Communism as a real threat(cough)and as a result some of the necessary protections that needed to be taken to keep the country from falling into the wrong hands. And then you look at the motive behind the Marxist forces who have their agenda of anti-imperialism or anti-westernization on the one hand and the die-hard Islamist who have their agenda on the one hand, and these two forces literally combine to overthrow the previous regime. To what exact end we have to find the answer 40 years later today. Did the situation the people wanted to have improve or are they further away from it as opposed to 40 years ago? Which in fact the debates people are having today, so I think that part of the problem was maybe that you can put on the regime of the time, shoulders of the inadequate or fast enough response to that expectation of more participation if you will, but other than that the blame goes to those forces who tried to lead the country, not in the direction of improvement or course correction or even if I could I say, ah reform as opposed to an act of revolution. In other words, let me put it this way, a lot of the opponents of the previous regime today admit that, if there was anything they could say today retrospectively, is that regime was quite reformable and if fact it intended to go in the right direction. CPRP: [13:39] But they chose to go the path of a complete revolution as opposed to a regime ​ that is totally irreformable that some people still insist on reforming and that is the net difference. So maybe it is also a generational thing. If you look at the generation today and how they assess the net result of what happened, they have a completely different take as to those who were implicitly involved in there and I think sometimes it is very hard to admit to something (background noise) whether you are on one side of the coin or the other (laugh) and that is a debate that takes a while to basically come to some realistic and logical or pragmatic conclusion as opposed emotional you know ___ position as the French would say. But that is a process like anything else and I think will eventually pan out. But if you look at the net result whatever was the thinking or the intent or the motivation or the interest, I think there are very few people left on this planet today as far as the Iranians, who would say what we have now is what we

Mardirossian 31 wanted.(laugh) So the real question is where do we go from here? Even for those of the time who were antagonistic to but what.

KM: This is like a follow up question. How does history define the root cause? ​

CPRP: I am sorry say again. ​

KM: How history define root cause. How history define root cause of the revolution? ​

CPRP: how history, I am sorry, not sure I understand what you try to say ​

KM: How did history define the root cause of the revolution? ​

CPRP: I still think that the real assessment is not profound enough because it is based on a lot of ​ hearsay, a bunch of rhetoric a bunch of how can I say superficial analysis as opposed to a more in depth understanding of the core. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that ever since the regime took over access to people and to their free-thinking has become practically stopped, if not very limited, so whatever they had to base their assessment was on something that happened and a bunch of how it was publicized by the revolutionary regime and it was left at that. It is a little bit like even if today you go to an academic institution here in this country, most of what has been taught is based on rhetoric that is the version or the narrative of the revolutionaries, but you hear very little of the counter-argument of those who have to a counter opinion, therefore it is slanted, it is biased, and in my opinion not balanced at the very least. And a lot more has to happen to get all the necessary data to have a fair assessment of the way it truly happened, not only from a factual standpoint but from also a interpretational standpoint, which is hard to have when you don’t have true access. It is a little bit like people would define how was life under the Soviet Union when they haven’t even been there or hearing it from the dissident as opposed to the members of the politics row. Well of course, they will give you their story it will not be necessarily the actual truth.

KM: Definitely. What effect did the revolution have on your family? ​

CPRP: (bottle crinkle) Well, of course, I think a lot of it was I am sure it was very hard on my ​ father because you know after all these years of serving the country if this is what it ends up being like it was very tough to swallow and of course my mother alongside with him tried to do so many things for the country so getting into an exile mode and where do we go from here was of course quite a tough scenario, even though our thoughts were with the immediate situation

Mardirossian 32 back home and my father passed away a month before a couple months before the Iranian-Iraq war started and in a way I am glad he did not have to witness that. So you know, for us it was life in exile and where do we go from there. And by us, I mean my mother, myself, my siblings, and you know whatever we had to endure all these years and you know there is a lot of of people who are immigrants don’t understand that living in another country, not by choice, but by circumstance is not the same thing. An exile is somebody who is forced out of his or her country with no option of having the ability to go back to that country for a variety of reasons. Some people are discommunicated against because of their ideology or their ethnic background or their sexual orientation or their religious beliefs. We have seen the case in Iran. In our case, it is unique, because well (laugh) it was the royal family, there was a revolution, you are being kicked out and so you know and neither of could go to our country without having this regime try to you know basically eliminate us. So we like a lot of many exilees have to swallow this hard pill of not having the option of being in our own country and that's not easy at all.

KM: [18:55] Yes. That is very hard. What would you like people to understand about your ​ father?

CPRP: (bottle crinkle) The interesting thing is as time goes by people when they look at the ​ legacy, they ultimately judge by what been left behind, and I think there is more to his record of what he left behind that speaks for itself. That’s the best way I would say, it doesn’t matter what he said, it is really what he did and people look at what he did and I think there is ample evidence of it. That description, that assessment is ultimately made in the collective psyche of a nation. Naturally, enemies try to butcher it, they try to vilify it, they try to throw dirt and mud at it, but at the end of the day people look back and say, wait a second, these things were done in the country and did it benefit society or not and well they say yes it did, they say well you overall did a good job. I think if you want to talk about performance and track record. And that is really what it boils down to so if you ask me what is my assessment I would say I think if you look at conventional wisdom of assessment especially despite the propaganda that the regime tried to do vilify my family and my father people now look at the facts, and today’s generation in particular even though they never lived under that time or have no clue of what life was under there, it is interesting that they are the most knowledgeable or savvy as a result of curiosity and research and not taking anything for granted and saying well all these things were done for the country and sometimes they blame their own parents and saying what the hell were you thinking? You left us with this mess. And that is a very interesting thing without any of having anything to say about it. It simply based on the facts that they now compare notes. They say this is where the country was going, this is what our state of the economy is, this what Iran had as a strength, this is how we were treated as Iranians with our passports overall in the world, this is how we were able to exchange our currency in the international market, look at us now and where we are. That

Mardirossian 33 by itself to me says a lot about the difference between where the country was going under my father's leadership as opposed to where it is now.

KM: Yah, People when they look at it the moment they think one way once time goes on and ​ they are able to take a step back there like look at how good we had it.

CPRP: But, It is always like this, it is always like this. How many times in history have great ​ leaders been depreciated at the time that they were in that position until years after that?

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Often we see that happen. ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: It’s always, it is a little like this allegorical image of you cannot judge a mountain until ​ you stand way back from it and then appreciate it's you know it’s grandeur. If you are at the foot of the hill you really can’t see it unless you look at a distance. Sometimes retrospective analysis or look from further away makes that assessment more how can I say whole or complete because there is more data there is more time for reflection. In the heat of the moment, it is very hard necessarily to have a full judgment about anything. So, I think a little bit of that is also true in terms of how people look back at how things were.

KM: Yah, Are there are misconceptions about your father that people had? ​

CPRP: (cough) Yah, I think that in some cases, misconception also exist. Ah, eh, the way people ​ project authority is different. Sometimes they say oh my God this is somebody who has to do this or do that or everything is put on one person shoulder. But look a country like Iran could not gone through so much progress without the help and assistance and labor and hard work of so many people in different fields for several decades.

KM:[23:03] Yah, definitely. ​

CPRP: So, it's not just one person, its hundreds of thousands of people, military, teachers, ​ engineers, scientist, doctors, you name it, that were at work. That built that country. While then therefore (cough) you want to say that my father was the poster child of it, perhaps, but was he the only person doing it, no there was a whole host of people who built that country and some of them are still alive to attest to that, and that’s how I think people want to really dig into it and say

Mardirossian 34 okay how do we assess the situation, then I think there are a whole host of people who say you know in there own respective fear of having played a role over 20 or 30 years of that era of really what happened. How the country was in 1945 as opposed to where it was in 1975. In that 30 years how much has changed in that country, for instance, and that's one generation but that's a whole different thing, you know its a generation that says we didn’t even have running water and by the time of my generation, we had colored television. You know and so many things in between. That means that the country was growing in every sense of the way and in a very short period of time, perhaps even too fast some people would argue, but anyway, these are the facts. Facts speak for themselves. It's not a matter whether I like the guy or I dislike the guy or it’s a matter of evidence again as I said in your previous question how people will assess it. It's not so much about an opinion, it’s based on today these are the facts. If you just look at the facts and nothing else that should tell you pretty much, most of the story.

KM: People put where their bias, they just look at the facts able. ​

CPRP: Sure absolutely, its like say okay a bridge was built and you don’t like the engineer, but ​ you cannot attest to the fact that the bridge was built. (laugh) It’s there for everybody to see. (clear throat)

KM: My next question is, Iran was making great strides as a country in the global market. How ​ do you think that the revolution affected Iran’s place in the Middle East?

CPRP: Well let’s put it this way, the compartment, the mismanagement, the corruption, and the ​ attitude and ideology of this regime who never cared about the people, to begin with but were there for their own purposes have made a situation where today Iran should have been South Korea instead it is North Korea.

KM: Hmm ​ CPRP: Need I say more, it a matter of the potential of a country, its resources, our issues or if people are not engaged in the national interest of the country, why should you be surprised by the outcome.

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: So if you look at a country that has so many resources, we should have been one of the ​ leading countries economically speaking

KM: Yah ​

Mardirossian 35 CPRP: in the world. Iran could easily by now be the second Japan in the Middle East but ​ instead, we can not even compete with half of Africa.(laugh clear throat)

KM: Unfortunately. How did the Iranian people’s opinion change before, during, and after the ​ revolution?

CPRP: It’s as I said, it is an ongoing process and of course the more the more we are closer to ​ our period of time, you and I and social media and more resources and more access and communication and more ability for research and information, which was not at all similar 40 years ago even 10 years ago, you know, today if you want to know something all you need to do is type(taps on table) something in Google and instantly you have information popping out.

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: It was not like this 40 years ago. ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Instantaneous information and access to data was non-existent. What I mean by that in ​ today’s age of communication and social media and exchange of views and access to information, there is a hell of a lot more data information that people can utilize in order to form or understand have an opinion or understand something by due diligence and good research.(clear throat) Which means that anybody who attempts to brainwash you into thinking something, don’t have absolute authority and control and monopoly of information, which of course, all totalitarian systems tried to do. On one hand, they try to brainwash you into thinking something or they want to censor you from having access to having any other information,

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: outside their rhetoric. Well is not as easy as it was you know in the era you know of the ​ Soviet Union. Today, despite all the possible censorship that this type kind of regime trying to impose, you can’t control all the information people eventually get access to information, and that helps that helps towards having as the time goes by and a much better understanding. CPRP:[28:05] (cough) So, in Iran proper, the accounts and the memories of a generation that ​ actually lived in that era play some part. Today’s generation having been disillusioned on whatever what was on and on promise and never fulfilled by this regime forced them to now say okay, we’ve been bombed, we’ve been abused, we’ve been manipulated, so they are thinking in a more critical way. And all of this is a fact for having a more indepth curiosity intellectually or

Mardirossian 36 otherwise to find out more and then form your own opinion as opposed to simply accept you know

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: in a blanketed way whatever anybody says, which is very healthy, I think. You know ​ nothing should be taken for granted. Even when I talk to my fellow compatriots, I say don’t take my word for granted, do your own due diligence, assess it, analyze it, then make a decision about what you hear.

KM: Yah. From my research, part of the media bias was in portraying the SVAK, the secret ​ police, as committing criminal and brutal acts against political activist and dissidents. In your opinion what is the biggest misconception with regards to the SVAK?

CPRP: Well, first of all, ah especially that era I could hardly think that anywhere in the world ​ would be able to function and sustain and maintain law and order and security without having some kind of intelligence agency.

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Now, does it happen sometime that you have ah abuse of power or authority, yes you do. ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: And I must say, in some case there some abuse of authority and power that was not ​ mandated, that was not sanctioned and did occur and of course nobody can condone such acts if it was the violation of human rights or the brutal treatment of a prisoner or what have you, all of that may be true. There were some cases indeed, which I don’t condone and in fact I condemn, but overall I don’t think it was an agency that was working against the country’s interest, and for most cases, a lot of the people were treated respectfully and correctly and I think this is a testimony of many people that had to endure some of that process. We hear more now than we did then ahm and again I think that the decision to have an apparatus, to have intelligence for surveillance or apparatus it is everywhere in the world, even as we speak and but how and what consequence have to the nation that's why you have in any society that is Democratic, watchdogs, whistleblowers.Today if the American CIA for instance or the French, DGSE, The British, you know MI6 or whatever, I am giving you examples, were to do something that would be contrary to the law or an abuse of a citizens rights, they would be held accountable, and what would be the remedies for that? The judicial system, the watchdogs, the you know civil society

Mardirossian 37 components and___, that are looking to, I mean Amnesty International Human Rights, what have you. These are all (clear throat) means of making sure that you keep people who have certain responsibilities stay within the framework of their mandate. That's all I can say, so when there is accountability, there is of course control and that means that citizens can be protected and their rights not be violated. Such a culture, such a tradition, such institutions were fairly new, come to think of it, in a country like to Iran who even 40 years before did not even have a postal system or a modern army, ah so it was like an ongoing process and every now and then you have unfortunately some faux pas and some mistakes and that’s part of the process of growing. Ah so again I guess in the context of history I would look at it as something to learn, ah because it is easy to criticize and condemn without understanding all the consequences or whatever led to it. (Heating system blowing) So, yah If you want to ask me as a matter of principal, were there mistakes, of course, there were and when there are certain things you cannot condone, but also at the same time some argument I would say, the necessity of having certain institutions as part of the reality of our world, otherwise we would be La-La-Land, so to speak.

KM: Yah (laugh) ​

CPRP: (laugh) ​

KM: Yah definitely. ​

CPRP: (clear throat) ​

KM: Your father and Anwar Sadat of Egypt have been called the two pillars of the Middle East. ​ Together they formed a defensive wall of stability, modernization of their countries, and kept extremist forces at bay. How did the dynamics of the Middle East change as a result of these two pillars falling?

CPRP: [33:06] I think the answer is in your own question. I mean, there are very few people that ​ today could argue against the fact that as a result of what happened in Iran, the entire region

KM: (cough) ​

CPRP: faced immediate consequences in terms of instability, radicalism, terrorism, and overall ​ the climate that led all the way to what we see today in Syria or Lebanon or in the Amman and so on and so forth. So there is a direct correlation between the civility of how the whole region was pre-revolution as opposed to what happened right after. I don’t think that anyone can debate that. It was quite obvious.

Mardirossian 38 KM: Yah yah. Your father’s approach to modernization of Iran was to first satisfy the basic ​ hierarchy of needs, Bread first, Housing first, Clothes first, Hygiene first, and Education first for everyone. 14 other pillars were added onto these basis five to form the White Revolution. Your father and grandfather led Iran out of the “stone ages”. What reason would people want to forsake that progress, human rights, and self-sufficiency and revert back in time?

CPRP: Appreciating what was done in terms of Iran’s progress and modernization has its own ​ set of arguments. The completing the overall progress curve as it relates to liberalization and participation is an ongoing argument. If you look at what Iran was at the time of the Constitutional Revolution that happened in 1906, and if you fast forward to 100 years later, meaning 2006, although the last 20 years of it was under the Islamic regime,

KM: Uhm ​

CPRP: then you say okay when was Iran then, what was he trying to achieve, what was the ​ aspiration of a nation in terms of what was the projection of this revolution. You will say that 2 out of 3 components were met. The 3rd component, which was more the political liberalization participation, was not fully fulfilled for a variety of causes and was abruptly interrupted by something that was not only did not stop the progress but took us completely backward. So where are we now in that projection? I think there are many aspects of what was done back then that would have to be continued being done because everyone saw the benefits of that, but we have to add to this ah overall picture of completing it. What are the aspects of self-governance and self-determination, which at the end of the day has to be achieved and only can be achieved in my opinion by having a secular democratic form of government? The reason I emphasize secular is because by direct experimentation, we see that all nations that have a separation of religion from state. We have these countries have the most progress amount of progress as well as tolerance and freedom of religion or what have you. I can argue, oh everyone said oh my gosh, it is a class of culture and the Islamic world etc. but what about people’s liberties? While I think Muslims in the United States have much greater freedom than they do in their own respective Muslim countries, Why? Because here there is a democracy, there is a state of secularism. You are free to practice your own faith whether you are Muslim, Jew, Christian, or whatever else, even atheist. What have you, and in that sense, I think that is a prerequisite to a tolerance and imperialism, and that is a direct lesson learned in history. I think that Iran today similar to the post inquisition in Europe in the period of enlightenment and the actual experimentation with religious totalitarianism. Or be it this time you have an Islamic inquisition as opposed to the Christian inquisition. And by the way, it also proves the fact that because people become secular, religion does not disappear. Most Europeans are still Christians, but they are not the same optics that the inquisitors had in mind. Khomeini was truly a inquisitor, come to think of it, and he couldn't care from where he launched his campaign of ideological ah export.

Mardirossian 39 Iran happened to be the best platform to launch it. It was not for the benefit of the people of Iran. It was this ideological thinking that this regime had, which shows us today why Iran is in which the state it is. Because all of our resources are going towards fueling that idea of (cough) religious governments as opposed to caring for people. CPRP: [38:06] So these are all the lessons learned but you need to create an avenue for people to ​ participate to be in charge of their own destiny and have a say in how they elect their officials and how keep them in check and how they expect in return for the mandate they give such people and again, I do not want to rehash an issue, that is very obvious, that is Democratic government. Is Iran a society ready and able and equipped to deal with it today? I hope it’s the case. I think the younger generation demonstrate at least that they have the notion of it and hopefully, they will be able to implement that.

KM: Yeah (bottle crinkle) This is one of my favorite quotes ah of your fathers. “And how can ​ we build up a happy society for the future by giving our children’s mothers straitjackets.” What’s your favorite quote?

CPRP: That’s it from? ​

KM: From giving your um mother’s straitjackets. What’s your favorite quote? ​

CPRP: Children’s mothers? ​

KM: Yeah ​

CPRP: Ya, the equality of women? Is that what you’re talking about? ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: It’s a very apropos subject because come to think of it the the biggest and first victims of ​ this religious revolution have been the women in Iran. And oddly enough the Iranian women have been and also from the very beginning opposed and resisted and stood in defiance of this regime and you know I would similarity say ah that it’s like trying to run the marathon on one leg. I mean, you’re talking about fifty percent of the society being disenfranchised from the get go.(laugh) How could you hope to have full participation in anything when you eliminate half of society just on the basis of their gender. It’s just--

KM: (yah) ​

Mardirossian 40 CPRP: absolutely ridiculous. ​

KM: (it is) ​

CPRP: Especially when you think of how women play a great role in any society and how many ​ roles they played before the revolution. They rose through ranks at the highest possible levels, ministers, ah lawyers, ah judges, ah police officers, ah military, ah I mean in very different domain. They were just not housewives, they were doing some many jobs and and to be treated now second class citizens, it’s it’s heartbreaking to me. (crash) Not just on the matter of principle but because I saw that and look where they are now, so yah, of course I think this is ah (cough) this is something that is one of the first how can I say cornerstone of building any society on equal footing and the best evidence of equality has to start between with the equality between men and women,

KM: (yah) ​ ​

CPRP: before any other equalities. That’s the most obvious, if you cannot deal with the first one ​ (laugh)

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: in a pragmatic way then (laugh) you know might as well as throw everything else away. ​ That’s the most obvious indicator of social justice and equality is equality between man and women, which has clearly been squandered on this regime.

KM: Yah, How would um how would you implement that if you ever had the chance or ​ possibility to go over and become the Shah, how would you implement the equality into the society?

CPRP: Well again it is to protect people from the doctornal behavior of radical ah Islamist who ​ have used religion and politicized it to justify that kind of prejudice (cough) against the female gender.

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Ah a lot of it takes roots in through religion, I’m sorry to say, ah that’s why today you ​ see campaigns of women who say listen if I if I choose to wear the veil it has to be voluntary as opposed to force.

Mardirossian 41 KM: (yah) ​ ​

CPRP: Ah that’s the whole difference. You know you can not say in a free society if people ​ choose to follow in an orthodox way a faith fine,

KM: Yah, (Background crash) ​ ​

CPRP: to each it own, but you cannot say as an orthodox Muslim or and orthodox Jew or an ​ orthodox Christian, how somebody else should rule. I mean, you can neither legislate nor impose your morality onto anyone else,

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: that’s what should be guaranteed under the constitution. So I revert back to the fact, first ​ and foremost, Iran should have a constitution based on the universal declaration of human rights where in so many of these rights have been explained an has a universal standard, not my narrative or your narrative it has been debated and explained in a universal way. The rights of children, the right of women, the right of ethnic ah communities or er religious and on and so forth, so first and foremost, it’s the law of the land, that is a guarantee,(background talking) and then it’s the educational process, it’s ah how can I say, ah the it’s a political culture, that has to take roots and I think today based on all based on all these experiences a lot of it will come at the end of the tunnel. CPRP:[43:14] How can we protect ourselves as a society to eliminate any form of ​ discrimination in order to bring a sense of justice and equality ah in every sense of the word and the way you implement it is basically having all the necessary tools ah to make sure that these principles are in fact defended, education as I said ah what the government has to do, what the political parties have in their programs and ______, civil societies, so many other things, media, a lot of elements that goes towards making sure that society stays on track and doesn’t get derailed, so none of these rights or or principles are being trampled or forgotten or completely brushed under the rug, it’s it’s a constant debate, in this country every single day you have this kind of debates happening,

KM: Yah definitely ​ CPRP: you know whether it’s Roe vs. Wade, where it is, I don’t know ah so many other issues, ​ it’s constant. You saw that okay you just have it written in the constitution let’s forget about it, it’s going to happen by itself, no, it’s a constant debate, so you can imagine how much constant intervention there is at every aspect. That’s ultimately how society ah manages to keep on track and progress. You can’t simply say oh that’s for the government to worry about, that’s not my cup of tea, ah ah, it doesn’t happen that way, so if it is my way of implementing anything if had a

Mardirossian 42 say it would be to say to people, just don’t sit back and be passive observer, you have to take ownership. You know if you buy a stock in a company,- and if the company is not performing well, I really can sell your stock and get out or go after the management and say you guys are not doing your job you ought to be fired and somebody who can do the job should take over,

KM: (yah) ​ ​

CPRP: but if you say none of the above and then worry about why is it I lost my assets, well ​ that’s your fault. (laugh)

KM: Yah, exactly.(laugh) Another insightful quote of your father is, “My desire to implant this ​ spirit ever more deeply among our people was accomplished by no animosity towards other religions. Historians will one day be obliged to recognize that one of the characteristics of my regime was tolerance.”

CPRP: (sneeze) ​

KM: To what extent do historians see that characteristic in retrospect? ​

CPRP: Again, I think if they were to interview people who have seen the difference to how ​ things were as to opposed to how they are today, they’d be able to say, all they have to do is to interview ah Iranians of different denomination persecuted by the regime, Jews, Behighes, Christians and what have you, and what happened to them in the process.

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: How they were treated then as opposed to how they were treated now. So, I think there is ​ ample evidence personal testimonial accounting(background noise) of what caused the exodous of so many, who had to leave Iran just because of their religion, that this regime did not tolerate as opposed to how things were before, so that again is not such a matter of (clear throat) you know intent, it actually did happen and I think a lot of people ah can can attest to that.

KM: yah, to find it, first you like have to go to the root. The people who were like there, the ​ root…

CPRP: It is true, you know honestly I ah don’t recall a moment where to us it mattered who had ​ what religion, it didn’t even occur to us to to make this an issue. Who cared who was Jewish or Christian or Muslim or what have you, it was not even a subject that would come up.

Mardirossian 43 KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Whether intellectual level even the grass roots level, this issued did not even come up. ​ But this regime has made it today that the country is polarized and everybody is worried about who has what what faith or what ah ethnic group they represent which is a very sad ah consequence of this regime because Iran has been for centuries ah a multi-cultural mosaic of different ethnic groups and then religions throughout the centuries that lived together side by side peacefully. We never had these issues until this regime took over. Unfortunately (clear throat)

KM: I definitely agree with that. Young students played a big role in the 1978 to 1979 riots and ​ protest. Your father stated that the opposition purposely targeted the youth because they needed large gangs. He also said that the mistake he made was not to use his own media to fight their attempt to correct the youth. He believed that many of them would of listened. Being that young impressionable age yourself at the time, do you feel that they would of listened to your father’s side?

CPRP: [47:56] -- (clear throat) I cannot (clear throat) ah, --- how can I say ah speculate, ​ whether or not someone would of thought differently or not ah but I would say that clearly in terms of information, ah back then we did an entirely poor job informing our own people about what was going on in the country. Ah, I was one of the my own criticism was that we were far more concerned what the outside world was thinking about what we were saying or doing including their liberal medias as opposed to talking to our own people who we really didn’t engage in a dialogue and instead all they had to hear from was either the mosques or the Communist. (laugh) Therefore you can imagine ah how everything could get slanted and manipulated. Whether or not that would of made a difference, as I said I can’t speculate but I would air on saying that of course with more data and information people would have a clear full picture and then be able to respond to it. A lot of people didn’t really understand what was going on and by the time they did it was too late and today they say they wish we knew more and so in a way it’s an information of the fact they were not told enough uhm but you know it’s somewhere I don’t want to agonize over the subject because it’s as the saying goes, it’s crying over spilled milk,

KM: Oh yah ​

CPRP: you know (laugh) Ah ah we can’t go back in time, we can’t reverse the clock. We can ​ assess ah from a critical thinking point, what went wrong, what it went wrong, part of it might be in fact what you just ah pointed. Was were the people really told enough. Did the previous regime engage them enough and if this is a quote from my father, I think it is true. I think it is ah

Mardirossian 44 definitely true that ah you know people only read the headlines but very little was (talking in background) behind it. Let me give you a simple example, a lot of the people at the time, especially the left, was criticizing why you want to spending so much (talking in background) on the army and military and so on and so forth and etc, well (ring) if you ask the same people ten years after when (talking in background) they had to flee (talking in background) their homes in Tehran in the hill of the Alborz because ah Iraqi migs were bombarding Tehran, which was unthinkable before the revolution, then they say ,oh okay, maybe we needed to have ah military to protect of borders

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: so when Khomeini came and started to execute every single top officers of my father’s ​ army and Saddam Hussein was emboldened (background noise) thinking that he could take advantage of the opportunity and and attack Iran, you know now years later people say okay obviously the Iran military strength was necessary at some point, but you know, if people choose to believe something sometimes, no matter how many facts you put in front of them, it’s no use.

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: When we had, I am not talking about some uneducated person who is ah heavily ah ​ emotional about his faith and talking about you know any _____ whatever, you would say okay, that is that level of thinking, but when you had (background noise) university teachers swearing that they saw with their own eyes Khomeini’s face in the moon, doesn’t matter what kind of facts you can put in front of them

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: They just choose to believe that ​

KM: Yah ​ ​

CPRP: so it doesn’t matter what you say what you do and unfortunately we had those kind of ​ character too, at the time of the revolution, and these people were supposedly(laugh) intellectuals,

KM: Exactly, (background noise) ​ ​

CPRP: educators, who were saying these things. That was so part of the revolution at the time. ​

Mardirossian 45 KM: Yah, they kind of went along with other people and they didn’t know all the facts and they ​ just were just you believe it, I believe it too. (background noise) That’s what happened, yah. Your father wrote a profound statement in his book that sums up much of my research on his reign and the revolution. He said, “a sovereign may not save his throne by shedding his compatriots blood. A dictator can, because he acts in the name of ide ideology which her believes must triumph whatever the price. But a sovereign is not a dictator. There is an alliance (background noise) between him and his people which he cannot break. A dictator has nothing to hand over. Power lies in him and him alone. A sovereign receives his crown and it is his duty to pass it on.” Your father could of saved his regime early on with bloodshed and the disposal of Khomeini and others. At the end he held strong to his duty as a sovereign to “Do the impossible to avoid bloodshed”. In retrospect do you believe this was the right decision?

CPRP:[53:02] I have no doubt about that, even for a split second! Sure, there are a lot of people ​ today who keep writing me, if your father had killed Khomeini if he had stood against him we wouldn’t be in this mess, but, if he had done that, they would say he was a bloodthirsty tyrant hanging on to his throne, as opposed to today being revered and most people, you know saying may light shine on his throne, that a very different, so you know, you can have the cake and eat it too, (background talking) you have to decide which side of the argument you are. Either you side with the principle or you don’t. And I believe my father did what was the ethical, moral judgement at a time that ah it was not appreciated ah for the sake of history, I think history will judge him by that.

KM: Yah ​ ​

CPRP: So you know it is very easy to say he oh should of killed he should of murdered. I he ​ had already told people many times, look, this may happen, if the situation changes, but who cared to listen at the him. So what is he going to do impose it by by by force or tell them you want to try it, be my guest and that’s the only option he had left in him. Say, I am not going to after 37 years saw with my own hands the blood of my people. If that is what they want, let them have it. Now they have it and oh what a mess. I wish he had not ah left us, well it was your choice people.

KM: yep ​

CPRP: Take some responsibility on your own. Because otherwise it was damn if you do, damn ​ if you don’t (laugh)

Mardirossian 46 KM: Yah, yep, I definitely agree. What do you think is the reason the Carter Administration ​ wanted your father replaced? CPRP: It’s not that they wanted my father replaced, it’s that they believed that my father was not willing to in fact, ah stand by force, and they came to this conclusion in this case, there is no choice but to support Khomeini. Now, they could of just stayed idol and say okay let it play out, but why crack and support Khomeini. What was to gain by that? The Guataloo Conference, shortly before the revolution is what in my opinion sealed the deal and Carter convinced his European allies in to going along with him. There was Callaghan, Helmut Schmidt, and Giscard d’Estaing. The president of France, the Chancellor of Germany, and the British ah ah Prime Minister. Ah who ultimately came to this conclusion okay, let’s let’s let’s support ah Khomeini. (background talking) So, yah I think there certainly a direct responsibility of how the revolution was successful at least Khomeini’s rights to power was successful. Everything was done by the Carter Administration to dissuade our military to resist the change and ah they send special emmicaries, General Heisser went to Iran talking to our military and this poor fellow said okay we have to follow on the one hand our Kings order not to to intervene, and Prime Minister Bakhtiar was trying to hold the fort and he was undermined by the revolutionaries and at the end of the day the first people who were executed by the regime were the very military that stayed loyal and did not uh try to resist. So today the consequences is where we are. So,

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Yah ​

KM: A deep unrest hit the Middle East after your father left. Anwar Sadat was killed. The ​ American Hostage Crisis in Iran. The Iran-Iraq war. What connection do you feel this unrest had to the change of the regime in Iran?

CPRP: (Cough) Is Are we talking about post revolution or pre revolution? ​

KM: Ahm, I think, pre-post revolution, Ya ​

CPRP: Can you read me the question. ​

KM: A deep unrest hit the Middle East after your father left. Anwar Sadat was killed to the ​ change of the regime in Iran.

CPRP: Well again, it’s ah it’s as a consequence of this regime change that everything changed ​ drastically. (background noise) Ah the relationship that Iran had at the time with many countries in the region. Cordial relationships with our Arab neighbors, with Egypt in particular, with Israel

Mardirossian 47 among others and ah other neighbors,Turkey, Pakistan. Everything changed with this regime coming to power. It first started by antagonizing the the Arab world. It first started to antagonize based on their ideal that you’re being anti-Israel or anti-Jewish, what have you and condemning the relationship Iran had with Egypt and my father was instrumental in making possible for Egypt to have peace with Israel and so on and so forth. It all ties together, what was happening them, the chief antagonist who wanted to undo all of that, in the interest of something totally different. So all of these things are directly correlated as a consequence of the the situation changing in Iran.

KM: [57:59] I read that you were scheduled to go to Egypt to personally attend Sadat’s Victory ​ Parade in 1981. You had to cancel at the last minute. Sadat was killed at that parade. The cancellation is said to have saved your life. Tell me about that day and how you felt after that.

CPRP: (Cough) Well I heard the news when I was in Morocco, and of course I went ah ​ immediately thereafter ah to Egypt to pay my condolences to Sadat’s family and also participate in his funeral ceremony. Ah, I don’t know what could of happened because I am sure ah that I would of been seated pretty close to if not right next to President Sadat and what could of happened, God knows,

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: ah you know sometimes ah things happen in a very ah mysterious way ah.. but I was of ​ course shocked and I was extremely saddened because he was a remarkable ah man, what he did not just for Egypt but his role and his impact literally beyond in unquestionable. You know, leaders who take the best interest of a nation and make tough decisions uh but retrospectively I think if you ask any Israeli or any Egyptian are they better off having peace as opposed to be constantly in war, I think the answer is obvious. Look at the difference between now in Egypt and now in Israel and opposed to where Syria is today.

KM: Yah, definitely ​

CPRP: (laugh) or look at Yemen for instance. ​

KM: Definitely, wow. If you ever had the chance or possibility to become the Shah of Iran in the ​ future, what governing attributes would you take from the U.S. and implement in your rule?

Mardirossian 48 CPRP: First of all(water bottle crunch) I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again, I’m not ah ​ running for office nor do I want to or ever want to have a position of decision making or authority at all. Ah my mission in life is to make sure Iran is liberated and I much rather be in a position of ah counselor next to the people as to be in opposed to be a decision maker over the people. That’s my personal thing, so I’m not even addressing that issue, but from a principal point of view I always would say that I would believe that Iran would best be served if people responsible for decision making in terms of foreign policy, understand the obvious necessity of ah co-existence in a world which is sometimes complex and trying to have the best form of relationship ah on the basis of ah mutual respects and not ah having not having your ah rights trampled by this or that ah course would be the best way to proceed. To have a cordial relationship was as many countries and governments as possible in the spirit of ah world cooperation and peace, that goes without saying. Ah of course the first duty of any government is the welfare of its own citizens, goes without saying,

KM: Ahum ​

CPRP: but we are not living in a world where we can be isolationist or or not believe in that ​ there is a global community and at some point we have to compromise in order to collectively ah progress and survive. That would be my best advice to ah future decision makers.

KM: Wow, yah, um I have two images um and I wanted to know how you felt about them. ​

(sound of papers shuffling)

CPRP: found my glasses, but yah (clears throat) --- well these are obviously contrast and ​ passage of time, you know

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Ah.. what it was in 1979 and where we are today ay you know where society stands now. ​ (background noise)

KM: Yah, definitely ​

CPRP: So, yah you know, it’s like direct experimentation you know (clears throat) you have to ​ have experience Nazi Germany, you have to have experience a period of being through

Mardirossian 49 dictatorship in South America, you might you all have to had experience ah ah Apartheid in South Africa, you might have had to experience the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and so on and so forth to understand what it means to live under those circumstances and what happens when you are rid of that situation or your trying to get rid of a situation that is creating those injustices. Iran is right there right now. (background noise) You know, we’re still stuck with a regime that on the daily basis continues to to do what it does, which is the foundation for our struggle for freedom and liberty and ah based on direct experimentation you know, it is very hard to tell people whatever experience ah incarceration, what’s the meaning of being ah prisoner.

KM: Yah. ​

CPRP: Right ​

KM: Definitely, yah ​

CPRP: You don’t appreciate freedom until it’s taken from you. ​

KM: Exactly ​

CPRP: and that’s a little bit what’s happening. ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: In Iran ​

KM: Definitely, I definitely agree with that. Um what do you think, what do you think about ​ Ayatollah Khomeini calling the Shah the “evil traitor” and also said he destroyed our country?

CPRP:[1:03:09] Again, ah I go back to my first am comment, you know you build the bridge ​ it’s there for everyone to see .

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: (laugh) ​

KM: Yah,_____ ​

CPRP: What have they done? ​

Mardirossian 50 KM: Yah ​

CPRP: What have they built? What have they given the Iranian people? Other than misery, other than severe discrimination, other than poverty, other than a situation where most young kids today think, only of suicide as opposed to a better life.

KM: Yah, definitely ​

CPRP: So who is a traitor? ​

KM: Yah, yah. I definitely agree with that. Um, my next question is during the revolution there ​ were many riots, tell me about what it was like having the knowledge of what was going on in your country?

CPRP: Well in my case it was special, because as I said , I left the country and I was monitoring ​ Iran the last six months before my parent’s departure, so I was not there to have a close view of what was happening, so I can not really share with you a direct experience, other than being as anybody else observing through how it was reported in the media what was happening and of course some input coming directly from my ah parents who would try not to get me too tormented because they wanted me to focus on my air force training in the meantime, so ah in that sense I was not directly exposed to the daily ah events that were happening in Iran until until their departure.

KM: Yah, I have a question, did you like keep in touch with any of your friends, when you left? ​

CPRP: Oh yeah! ​

KM: Did you hear from any of them? ​

CPRP: I see many of them, we we we are often seeing each other, some of them we correspond ​ because we are more you know ah how can I say ah scattered, around the planet. Yah, I mean you know a lot of my high school friends are still ah in direct touch with me and we do keep in touch, absolutely. KM: Do they tell you anything after you left from that six month period while you were no ​ there, did they tell you about what was going on?

Mardirossian 51 CPRP: Well some of them had also come abroad along side with me at the time, as we all ​ graduated from from school, they all already at, enrolled in universities more that half of them in foreign universities outside of Iran, so in a way they were also outside of Iran looking in when everything happened, so we all some some degree of commonality of experience in that sense. (cough)

KM: The press presented your father’s regime as oppressive and ruthless in their violence ​ against its own people. What do you think of this representation in the US?

CPRP: Well it goes back to your previous question, if had if he was that kind of person as they ​ claim he was, he would of in fact stood there and tried to ah crack down on his own people as Saddam Hussein did or as Bashar al-Assad is doing in Syria, right?

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: So which one is it? ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: (Laugh) ​

KM: Yah, definitely ​

CPRP: He left to avoid bloodshed. ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: If it was otherwise, why leave then? ​

KM: Yah, I definitely agree with that, wow. Uhm, what is what is one thing uhm you would, we ​ already already touched on that. What is the most important thing you learned from your father’s rule?

CPRP: (breath) -- If you put it in the context of a linear progress in time, in a timeline, every ​ _____has its own needs and requirements in terms (background noise) of the role that certain leaders have to play under those circumstances, for example, can President Macrone act and behave the same way Charles de Gaulle has to deal with the circumstance of France then under the German occupation for instance? Could my father have acted in the same style of way that

Mardirossian 52 his father did when he started the whole thing? Could I, in any sense of form as a generation that is faced with different challenges have the same set of circumstances to act in a way similar to what my predecessors did. My point is this, regardless of how one assesses what he had to do, I have to put it in the context of his time and circumstances and whether or not to judge his performance based on the reality of his days, so if you look at it in that context, given the circumstances, I think overall his track record is brilliant,

KM: Uhm _____ ​

CPRP: and of course there were mistakes, nobody can’t have a no mistake course but. if you ​ look at the mistakes and when there occurred (background talking), you will see that they were not, devastating

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: Ah, and and therefore, ah I think that’s why today overall most people are quite ​ appreciative of ah what he did. Because at the end of the day, what matters even beyond what you did, it what your intent was

KM: [1:08:01] Yah, definitely ​

CPRP: and I think most people, even his harshest critics will say, his intent was to improve the ​ situation in Iran. He might have mishandled it in their view, or certain things he should of done differently or certain things that he should not have done, but there very few people who would question the fact that his intent was to put the country in the best possible light, except for idiots like Khomeini of course would (laugh) would say

KM: Yah Yah ​

CPRP: what they do but let’s not be surprised, their track record speaks for itself, so I’m not ​ even going to debate that. (background noise)

KM: Yep Yep, What is one important fact that you want people to know as they are studying the ​ Iranian Revolution?

CPRP: What is it, I’m sorry ​

Mardirossian 53 KM: What is one important fact that you would want people to know as they are studying the ​ Iranian Revolution?

CPRP: ---Make sure that you study as many diverse sources and not limit yourself to the ​ narrative of just one particular dominating source because then you will have a slanted impartial incomplete and probably a bias take on anything.

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: Ahm, it has to be a tremendous, that why historians are, in fact quite ah have a very hard ​ task because they have to brush aside a lot of (clear throat) how can I say, ah bias narrative, and really try to build a case on a much more complete fact based ah judgement. Ah yes, having witnesses, having testimonials, having impression by hearing what people have as of an opinion does to some extent contribute to an assessment, so it has to be a combination of what actually happened, which means that it’s not subject to interpretation, it’s just factual evidence, there is of course certain narratives that have to be taken into account and hear all sides of the arguments, not just one side, and at the very end the ultimate conclusion that people will draw from okay where are we now?

KM: uhm ​

CPRP: I mean you know people are passionate about the Civil War in this country, (piano ​ playing in background) but now x amount of ah times later overall what is your assessment is very different, you know than than those days ah you know let’s say for instance what was the the thinking of Americans society during the civil rights movement here and where it is now ah regarding you know ah racism and what have you. Ah same thing happens, the passage of time, the ability to compare and then form an opinion is a process and still in the making, so you have to combine all of these factors to have a more complete idea of exactly what happened. KM: Yep ​

CPRP: So, ah when you do a paper research, the more you add to your bibliography the more ​ likely you have to have a fuller picture

KM: Exactly ​

CPRP: or testimonial. That’s the way to handle it if you want to have a clearer picture so ah ​ sometimes you know history takes a long time to ah unveil ah a final ah verdict, if I could call it that you know.

Mardirossian 54 KM: Ya, Ya ​

CPRP: It like you can’t challenge the fact that the sun is out there but if you are having 6 months ​ of constant cloudy days you will question, is there a sun afterall?

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: (laugh) until the clouds finally disappear (laugh) and reality ah comes back again. ​ Sometimes it takes time.

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: and I think the more we go in time, ah the more accurate, assessment of history at least ​ contemporary running history will be made. We’re not there yet.

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: It’s still happening. ​

KM: Yep, I definitely agree with that.--- What is one thing you would, wait sorry, Uhm uhm ​ sorry, I just lost my place really fast , uhm, People always say you don’t know how good you have it until it’s gone. What is one thing that the people of Iran took for granite during your father’s rule? I know we may have touched on this a little bit, but.

CPRP: Yah ​

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Well I think you would -- if you question the average Iranian today, ​

KM: Uhm ​

CPRP: as the first thing they would say about what with (background noise) the situation is ​ different now or what they appreciate not is that Iran apart from restriction and political freedom, had every other freedoms,

KM: Yep ​

Mardirossian 55 CPRP: That’s the most common thing that you would hear the average Iranian say. ​

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: We had all our freedoms, social freedoms, sexual freedoms, you know, and that would ​ be the most obvious thing for people to remember those times and relive those those times. Ah and maybe it was all taken for granted and then all of a sudden they say oh my God, look what we lost.

KM: [1:13:20] Yep ​

CPRP: (cough) ​

KM: Yep, I know we might have touched on this a little bit, but Iran in not the same country that ​ you left so many years ago. What is your view of on Iran as a country today? I know we, is there anything else you wanted to add

CPRP: By my view on ​

KM: Uhm, Iran as a country today, is there anything you wanted to more add? ​

CPRP: I think, I think, I think, there are certain countries in terms of geostrategic balance that ​ (background talking)) play crucial role in the stability of any given region or hemisphere ah in that sense I think Iran is pivotal as a key country, an anchor state if you could call it that (background talking) that has direct impact regionally in terms of what is happening to itself and its immediate impact in the neighborhood ah and therefore ah you know let’s say if everything that has happening in the Middle East was caused by something happening in Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Turkey and will be here then Iran would not even be discussed but everything since 1979 to this day that has happened in the Middle East, no matter how you look at it somehow Iran’s name pops up as a result of whats happens there or its impact and influence either negatively or positively in the region, so in that sense Iran is critical.

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: Ah, not just to us as Iranian obviously but to the immediate neighborhood and in fact ​ ultimately at ah the global level.

Mardirossian 56 KM: Uhum, definitely. In uhm my final question, is in Anderson Scott Cooper’s book about the ​ revolution and the fall of power, he named the book, The Fall from Heaven”, what is you take on ​ ​ this title?

CPRP: Yah, I mean, it’s it’s (laugh) paradise lost I guess. Ah, yah I mean where Iran was and I ​ think what and I know Andrew Cooper I met him several times and I ah ah I think he did a superb job in terms of you know research and

KM: He did ​

CPRP: analysis, but having said that ah ya it’s almost like it was too good to be true type story. ​

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: Is today’s Iran the reality or was Iran then the reality? ​

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: Well, I remember that reality, a lot of people today see this as a the reality ​

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: and you know that’s that’s the interesting part and I think in a way, that’s my ​ interpretation of the title, you know the Fall from Heaven where Iran was and where we are ​ ​ today.

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: Certainly, there’s no question that where Iran was at the time was much better (laugh) ​ than where it is now.

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: and that’s what most people say at the end of the day, my God look what we had and ​ where we are now.

KM: Yah, Is there anything that I missed that would help me better understand the subject, is ​ there anything you would like to add? I

Mardirossian 57 CPRP: The questions that you asked are quite pointed in the sense that you must obviously have ​ done a lot of research and looked into it, but

KM: Thank you ​

CPRP: as I said nothing is complete, it’s an ongoing process at least you have a more ah how ​ can I say ah direction of thinking in anticipation of what can yet occur because sometimes when you do something retrospective you say okay we know everything up to this moment and before, but it’s also important to start thinking as a consequence to what where could this be leading to? and that’s the part that everyone has a question mark.

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: but it helps better understand the potential what can happen when you have a better ​ understanding of what has already taken place.

KM: Yep ​

CPRP: and what the evolution and thinking process is so I think in that sense ah what’s left to be ​ seen is that all those past or present and today’s generation and where they are at in terms of their aspirations, their hopes or or even cynicism, because you have to look at both sides of it where we are at and what consequences it would have as to how to events will unfold in the future will be the most interesting, intriguing, exciting and at the same time alarming

KM: Yah ​

CPRP: ah consequences and ah and so I guess that’s that’s what I would like ah to say that part ​ of this will be okay, this is what we know so far and then let’s see from where else it could go based on the current ______.

KM: Well thank you so much for sharing your reflection with me, I really appreciate it. ​

CPRP:[1:17:48] Sure, you are very welcome. ​

Mardirossian 58 Interview Analysis

The Iranian Revolution is a very important part of history, because it not only greatly impacted Iran, it also severed the cooperative relationship between Iran and the United States.

My part, as the historian, was to converge and interpret evidence and facts as well as forming a connection between myself and my subject. History is also the function of understanding the past a key to understanding the present as well as the task of telling what happened within the discipline of the facts. History is the ongoing process of the interactions between the facts and the historian with an ongoing conversation between the past and the present.

Author on History, E.H. Carr, thought that history and the point of views we have are influenced by where we live and the people around us. To have this we have to have people and their point of views. The dates we have and the facts we learn are the backbones to history.

These facts can only be brought up if the historian uses them. These facts are not pure anymore because history had time to alter them.

Barbara Tuchman, another author on the subject, thought that as time goes on the subject matter starts to fade and becomes irrelevant.

Oral history adds a unique source of information and detail to my research on the Iranian

Revolution.

Oral History comes from the source of what happened. Oral history is a dialogue between an interviewer and interviewee regarding a first-person observation of a historical event with prepared questions by the interviewer, which is recorded by audio or video.

Mardirossian 59 Additionally, oral history answers the “how and why”, whereas the facts answer the questions of “who, what, and where” of an event. Oral history is also different because it is a first-person observation of what happened and how they experience what happened. The interviewer can also ask a question that has not been asked before and ask follow up questions.

Oral history also records and preserves the interviewee's emotions and feelings regarding the event on video or recorder. While other historical sources come from many interpretations of that first source.

Top down is a term of the historian that was relevant to my research for my

emphasis and focus was on leaders and elites rather than the average person of the time. ​ Historians often focus on the important people of an event. It is therefore important for me in my research to also get the viewpoints of the average person that experienced the event and their opinions. This gives a wider range of understanding the whole picture.

My father is an Armenian who was born and raised in Iran, therefore as a historian,

I have a bias regarding my father’s history in Iran growing up. My Interviewee is also the

Crown Prince of the fallen Shah who was overthrown. Therefore, I need to gather as many sources as possible regarding this event even if they go against what my bias may be to ensure that I have all the information I need to accurately converge the evidence.

Knowing something to be true regarding the Iranian Revolution is a bit tricky, for many of the facts, such as artifacts, are not available in the United States. Choosing primary sources that rely on the facts of that time are important to me because they provide the backbone of the event. They provide the where, when, and what. The facts can also be interpreted by many different people. In my case, many of the facts reported by the newspapers at the time were not a

Mardirossian 60 full and accurate reporting, but much was propaganda that the revolutionaries dictated and fed to the outside world. Finding a book that had personal interviews of people involved in the event and factual review of records offered a new insight into the revolution.

My interviewee’s recollections of growing up in Iran under his father’s regime, is very detailed and sharp. A person's recollection or memory of a past event is important to the historian because it gives them a look at what happened and how it affected the interviewee. Memory also may be distorted by time and age. Memory data must be tested against other facts and data.

The modernization and reforms initiated Iran by the Shah transformed Iran into a modern, economically sound, and strong country. Inadvertent harm sometimes occurred in Iran because of the swift progress the country was making. The Shah of Iran stated that perhaps he moved too fast and aggressively with his modernization movement. He charted new territory in many areas and perhaps mistakes occurred that may of affected people in a negative way. This is important because it brought to my attention that even progress leaves some casualties behind.

The oral history part of my research bore many strengths, such as the information comes from a first-person account who experienced the event. This first-person account gave me a more personal and clearer understanding of what happened as opposed to a primary source. Getting the

“why” and “how” answered and asking questions that have not been asked before is also a strength. On the other side, the interviewee’s memory or account may be weakened by age or memory problems. Also, as time goes by more things happen and opinion change. Bias may also occur for two people can witness the same event and see it differently. The greatest strength overall is that historians can access these oral accounts for many years to come.

Mardirossian 61 Strengths Weaknesses

The information comes from a first-person The historian had time to have a bias from account who experienced the event. there connection to the subject matter.

Getting a better understanding of what As time goes by more things happen and happened from a primary source. options change.

Getting the Why and How answered. The interviewee's memory or account may

You are able to ask questions that have not be weakened by age or memory problems. been asked before. Bias may occur because 2 people can

Historians can access these oral accounts witness the same event and see it for many many years. differently.

My interview with the Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi provided me with a valuable analysis

of the historical importance of the Iranian Revolution, how it was perceived, and to whom and

what it affected. Five quotes that pertain to this relevance is as follows:

CPRP:[15:25] “I still think that the real assessment is not profound enough because it is ​ based on a lot of hearsay, a bunch of rhetoric a bunch of how can I say superficial analysis as

opposed to a more in depth understanding of the core. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that

ever since the regime took over access to people and to their free-thinking has become

practically stopped, if not very limited, so whatever they had to base their assessment was on

something that happened and a bunch of how it was publicized by the revolutionary regime and

it was left at that.”

Mardirossian 62 This quote is important because this is the crown prince's definition of how people perceived the revolution. People interpret by what was publicized. They gained their perspective from what they heard. Iran is not a free country since the regime change so it is hard to get accounts from people that lived through it and still live there. It is hard to gather factual information, because the revolutionaries and new regime put out what information suits their case and cause. Oppression in Iran as connected to analysis is important to understand as to how news is reported. I used a book that the author went to Iran and studied old records and reports as well as interviewed people. The Crown Prince’s statement was relevant to what that book revealed.

CPRP:[17:06] “Well, of course, I think a lot of it was I am sure it was very hard on my ​ father because you know after all these years of serving the country if this is what it ends up being like it was very tough to swallow and of course my mother alongside with him tried to do so much for the country so getting into an exile mode and where do we go from here was of course quite a tough scenario even though our thoughts were with the immediate situation back home and my father passed away a month before a couple months before the Iranian-Iraq war started and in a way I am glad he did not have to witness that. So you know, for us it was life in exile and where do we go from there.”

This is important because this was part of the answer to what effect it had on his family.

Most opinions of him at the time were of an terrible dictator. This quote brought the human aspect into my thinking. His father took it hard because he worked very hard for the people of

Iran. To have people turn on your hard work is very hard to understand. The question “where do we go from here” was what his family was thinking. His mother took it hard to because she too

Mardirossian 63 did so much for the country. She championed women’s rights throughout Iran. Saying goodbye to their home was very hard to imagine. He was glad in a way that his father did not have to witness the Iranian-Iraq war because his father had a peaceful relationship with Iraq.

CPRP:[19:05] “The interesting thing is as time goes by people when they look at the ​ legacy, they ultimately judge by what been left behind and I think there is more to his record of what he left behind that speaks for itself. That’s the best way I would say, it doesn’t matter what he said, it is really what he did and people look at what he did and I think there is ample evidence of it.”

This is a powerful quote. He talks about how history judged his father. His statement is that rather than looking at what his father said, look at what he did. You can find the evidence by what his father left behind. This is relevant because looking back at Iran during his father’s thirty-seven-year reign, Iran went from a predominately undeveloped country without basic needs to a modernized strong country and economy. As author Anderson Scott Cooper wrote that the house the Shah built is still there and no one can deny that he did not build it, even though someone new lives there now. This is relevant because the Shah’s White Revolution goals for

Iran and their footprint is left all throughout Iran. Citizens may not have appreciated what they had at the time and the younger ones were not subject to the era of Iran not having modern conveniences that they had grown up with in the 60’s and 70’s as opposed to the 40’s and 50’s.

In the world today, they are many cases that support this. In this case, there are people that made judgement by what his father said or mistakes that he made, his accomplishments often go unnoticed. It often takes years for people to put a person’s legacy in perspective without the emotion of the moment.

Mardirossian 64 CPRP:[46:31] “It is true, you know honestly I ah don’t recall a moment where to us it ​ mattered who had what religion, it didn’t even occur to us to make this an issue….But this regime has made it today that the country is polarized and everybody is worried about who has what faith or what ethnic group they represent which is a very sad consequence of this regime because Iran has been for centureies ah a multi-cultural mosaic of different ethnic groups and then religions throughout the centuries that lived together side by side peacefully. “

This is relevant to the diversity in Iran that existed pre-revolution as opposed to post revolution. My research provided that persons of different ethnic backgrounds fled Iran for their lives after the new regime took over. People who identified as gay were killed, Christians, and

Jews killed solely because of their religion.This is a cause and effect of a historical event where the past provides perspective on the future. My father’s account on the diversity and tolerance in

Iran pre-revolution coincides with this quote from the Crown Prince. It is important to compare pre and post revolution life and tolerance in Iran.

CPRP:[33:08] “I mean there are very few people that today could argue against the fact ​ ​ ​ that as a result of what happened in Iran, the entire region faced immediate consequences in terms of instability, radicalism, terrorism, and overall climate that led all the way to what we see today in Syria or Lebanon or in the Amman and so on and do forth.”

The situations of unrest and terrorism that has been growing in the Middle East for the last 37 years is a direct result of the Iranian Revolution. Terrorism occurred during the revolution in Iran and was blamed on the Shah and his forces.There were documented occurrences of terrorist burning down theaters and killing Jews. Terrorist would join in protest rallies and fire shots, while full disclosure was not released. Intolerance regarding religious beliefs also began to

Mardirossian 65 take hold and the superiority of radical islam grew stronger and came into power over an entire country. Radicalized religious beliefs became law of the land The cause and effect of this historical event has impacted the entire world in a negative way.

Conducting an oral interview has the possibility of a curveball being thrown at the interviewer. One question that I asked and thought I knew the answer to, ended with a big surprise. That surprise came when the Crown Prince stated that he did not wish to go back to Iran and take a position of leadership. He has been advocating for democracy and freedom for his people for forty years. It is his right through Iran’s, 1904 Constitution to take over as the next

Shah of Iran, if a regime change should happen. This admission was very shocking. He is very analytical regarding his role and is more focused on the oppression that his people are facing instead of his family regaining power. This ties to his father and the feelings of loyalty he had for the people, that was not portrayed in history. His father chose to leave Iran and his rule rather than to spill the blood of his compatriots and start a civil war.

Analyzing my interview and corroborating evidence from my Historical Context paper to my interview is an important step in verifying my research data. I was able to conclude and verify research such as, the White Revolution modernized and progressed Iran as a country. The secret police(SAVAK), being a new institution, did have problems with corruption. A lack of communication existed between leadership and it’s citizens regarding what was being accomplished and what the Shah’s goals were for Iran. The meaning and consequences of radical

Islam and its consequences and growth then and now. What life is like in Iran pre and post revolution and why a theocratic rule that is based on intolerance is dangerous to society verses a secular rule. Corroboration of these aspects is important to the whole context of the paper.

Mardirossian 66 Context Paper Transcription

White Revolution Tied to the modernization and progress in

Iran

The secret police has some corruption, but The concept of a secret police force was overall their record as was recorded was new and mistakes were made that are not not as stated in the media. condoned, but overall it was looking out for

the best interest of the country.

Pre and post revolution life in Iran Lines up with the majority of my research regarding rights, freedom, and oppression.

The Shah did not communicate as he could Agrees with doing a better job of of what he was accomplishing in Iran with communication. the mass of people.

The meaning and consequences of radical In line with intolerance and the dangers of a islam and its consequences and growth. theocratic rule vs secular.

Reading the transcription of another person on the Iranian Revolution, after my

transcription, yielded some interesting comparisons. There are differences and they exist because

the Crown Prince has a lot more knowledge regarding the history of the revolution and the Shah,

because the Shah is his father and he had more first hand knowledge being on the inside. The

Crown Prince also has spent the last forty years advocating for the people of Iran, writing books

on the subject, and meeting with officials from many countries about the plight of Iranians. He

has a vested interest in liberating his countrymen. He has clearly analyzed his father’s rule and

Mardirossian 67 knows many of the “players” involved in the revolution as well as the modernization of Iran. The

man interviewed in 2010 is a private citizen, who lived through the revolution and subsequent

regime. He offered a different perspective as a participant who supported Khomeini. He also was

able to offer a first hand account of the mass killings that Khomeini instituted against anyone

connected to the old regime as well as loss of freedoms and liberties. He was able to offer how

his life changed in Iran post revolution as opposed to pre-revolution. His interview was more this

is what we were told and then this is what happened. Another difference lies in the content of the

questions asked. Different questions yield different results. They were both able to touch upon

the same subject because their knowledge and experience on these topics crossed paths in that

Iran is their country and they both lived under the Shah, they both in different ways are able to

compare the Shah’s regime to Khomeini’s and see how the past has affected the future.

Previous SAES Interview Aris Izadpanah Your Interview:

1/6/10

Interviewee participated in the protest and Crown Prince was in America for the last riots. six months of the revolution.

Perspective from an average citizen. Perspective from an elite.

Interview did not go into much depth about A very in depth interview with a lot of the revolution and the Shah. perspective and knowledge. He brought a

lot of analysis into the interview.

Gave perspective on that Iran was better off Gave perspective that Iran was better off under the Shah than Khomeini. under the Shah than Khomeini.

Mardirossian 68 Khomeini fooled the people in supporting Same conclusion that the people who him. followed Khomeini were misled.

Khomeini got rid of the army and killed its Khomeini’s dismantling of the army and leaders which led to the Iraq War. killing of leaders opened the door for

Saddam Hussein to attack Iran.

Women lost rights and were segregated Under Khomeini, people lost their rights, from men and loss of freedom under freedom, and are oppressed.

Khomeini.

The economy under Khomeini suffered Iran is a much weaker country today with a under his rule. majority of people living in poverty.

Did not speak about separation of church Spoke at length about Iran and how a and state or about what kind of government theocratic government does not work. The the people want. need for a democracy with secular rule.

Did not speak about the Iran being Did speak about how Iran lived in peace polarized by religion and prejudice against with a multicultural country per-revolution. homosexuals, and other religions.

Stated that the Shah’s army did not kill We touched on the propaganda and people in the protest. Only violence broke reporting at the time that portrayed the out in the Jale Square protest and bombing Shah as a oppressive dictator who was of the movie theater. killing his people in the protest.

Mardirossian 69 Gave insight of the American Hostage Did not go into the hostage crisis but did

Crisis and the breakdown of our speak of the broken relationship between relationship with Iran. our countries.

Did not touch on radical Islam and how it changed the Middle East. Discussed radical Islam and its effect on the

Middle East.

My oral interview supplied me with an abundance of historical value.

The historical value of my interview lies in hearing another point of view from a person, who

not only was born and grew up in Iran, but was the Shah’s son. Most of the reporting portrayed

his father as an evil oppressive dictator. His narrative of the event and Iran as a country, then and

now, is a point of view that is not taught or discussed in the United States. For example the

human right abuses in Iran are not really publicized. From 1979 to 1989, Khomeini’s regime

killed an estimated 12,000 people which consisted of women, monarchist, homonsexuals,

liberals, and leftist. Many more people were tortured. This interview provided a comparison of

Iran then and now, which is important in the context of how the revolution affected the present.

Additionally, my research, for the most part, matched the content of my interview

regarding the topics that were discussed in both the paper and interview.

My oral interview also highlighted something that is not evident in my Historical Context

paper. The reader can learn that the Crown Prince is truly concerned and dedicated to the people

of Iran as was his father. They can get a more personal look at the Shah as a leader and person.

He was not perfect and did make mistakes, but his White Revolution certainly made Iran a

Mardirossian 70 viable, modernized, and peaceful country, as opposed to what it it today. Additionally, what stood out for me was that I never thought about Iran growing as a country. That new rapid growth meant that it was not uncommon to make mistakes. During the mid-1900’s Iran didn’t have running water, roads, and the majority of the population was illiterate. The country made great progress in a short period of time. It was pointed out in the interview that any new implementation of ideas, such as a security force, is going to make mistakes. Those mistakes are natural and are a byproduct of growth. Meaning they are casualties of progress.

Having gone through the oral history process as an interviewee, I can now state that conducting an oral interview is not as easy as I thought it would be. I did not take into account how long the interviewee would take to answer each question, and as a result, I had too many questions. In hindsight, some of my questions could of been eliminated or shortened. This prevented me from asking some follow up questions. I put in a lot of time crafting my questions, but looking back, I have a better understanding of how much prep results in a smoother interview. It also resulted in a great conversation that provided me with not only a wealth of knowledge and perspective, but established a deeper connection for me with the interviewee, and the Iranian Revolution. This oral interview provided me with a colored picture of the event instead of the black and white of a text reading. It was a scary process at first. I was nervous at the beginning and then relaxed. I thoroughly enjoyed the interview and found the Crown Prince to be an extremely knowledgeable, analytical, and delightful person.

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