Mr. William Foulke Joelnes

122 DISCC'SSION ON PLlNS AND SPECIFICATIONS. MR. WILLIAMFOULKE JOELNES, Member of the Society.-The gentleman who spoke first said that he objected to classified specifications, or, rather, to classified material in specifications. Now, I think that a certain amount of classification is desirable. Take it in the case which he cited, where rock cropped up in five places in his tunnel where rock was not expected. If he were getting paid a price for rock hc would get better pay for it. It would be fair to the contractor. Then take another case where the contractor is run- ning through ground that had been filled. If he simply is giving bids so much per foot-I am speaking of sewer work especially- and the soundings they make show boulders, he estimates they are ordinary boulders, but when he comes to excavate he finds rock measuring a yard and a yard and a half in size. Those rocks have got to be blasted. That is an additional expense which I think it is only fair the contractor should be paid for. If your specification read, "all material to be excavated exbept rock or rock in rock filling which measures a yard or over," I think it would be a fair specification to the contractor, at least fairer than making him bid a uniform price for all materials, because either he is going to estimate a larger amount of rock, to put himself safe, or else underestimate, and he is then getting into a hole. Another thing in regard to the specifications which are styled "club" specifications. I think every engineer will admit they are bad and ought not to be in specifications, but while the majority of contractors are honorable men, who are trying to do good work, yet we all know there are a certain number of men who are not; men who go into this thing bidding low and expecting to skin. Now, for such a man "club" specifications are necessary. Engineers will not use a "club" specification where it is not necessary. Almost all of those "club" specifications come under the clause: at the discretion of the engineer. I admit they are bad, but I claim they are necessary. MR. MYRONH. LEWIS,Member of the Society.-I do not agree entirely with the previous speaker's remarks about the separate classification of earth and rock in specifications. In a case that came to my notice a year ago a contract was let for about a mile of country road. Very slight cuts and fills, rarely exceeding 2 ft., alternated along the entire length. The original surface of the road was earth with rock persistently outcropping, or else rock with a thin layer of overlying earth, making it extremely difficult, almost impossible, to determine with reasonable accuracy the quantity of either. Unquestionably a single item for "material excavated" would have been best in this case, but the contract was let under a separate classification, the prices being about 30 cents for earth and about $1.50 for rock. It is difficult to see how the contractor arrived at these prices, for similar work in the vicinity done by other contractors cost from $3 to $4 per yard. DISCUSSIOX ON PLSNS AND SPECIFICATIONS. 123 I do not believe we can lay down any hard or fast rule in this matter, as so much depends on the character of the work. Where any difficulty is likely to be experienced in classifying the material, a single item in the specifications would avoid much confusion. I have on many occasions seen small and apparently unimportant, items in specifications give more trouble than the large ones. 1 wish to mention one or two instances. A contract for a road was let; cuts and fills both heavy; material classed as "earth" and "rock" to be paid for in excavation. In the estimate the amount of borrow was reduced by calculating the rock to go in the fills; but there was a great deal of rock needed to pave the slopes and the contractor did as we would do: he used the rock from the excavation for paving purposes. This necessitated an in- creased corresponding amount of earth borrow. The question was, should this additional borrow be paid for? As the specification did not clearly order the excavated rock to be placed in the fills, payment will no doubt have to be made for the extra excavation. The same contractor was building a number of bridge piers. The specifications called for '(Dimension Stone," '(Pier," "Rubble" masonry, etc. The dimension stone ($35 per cu. yd.) was cut from the pick of the quarry, was coursed and of uniform color. The pier masonry ($12 per cu. yd.) could not be obtained uniform in color. The engineer protested, the specifications were hunted over, but not one word could be found as to the color of this particular class of work. The color may have been intentionally omitted, but it would have been better to have specified that a uniform color would not be required. On this same work the depths of the joints were not clearly specified in several cases and gave further room for argument. These are merely slight illustrations of the problems constantly coming up before the engineer engaged on construction, many of which could be avoided by clearer and more complete specifications. I wish to say that on this work both the engineer and contractor were able and reasonable, and the work proceeded rapidly with but little friction. Why should not efforts towards harmony always be made by engineer and contractor? Why should so much dissension and so much trouble be necessary? Both are working towards the same goal, both are trying to rear the same edifice; why should not both forces act in the same and not in opposite directions, and thus ac- complish the highest good? The contractor should recognize that the reputation, the very future, of the engineer depends upon the work; the engineer should recognize that the contractor is entitled to a reasonable profit to pay for his work and investment, and if each follows the golden rule of dealing with the other as he would wish to be dealt with faults in the specifications could be readily adjusted. 3 24 DISCUSSION ox PIJANS ~XDSPECIFICATIONS. MR. GARDNERL. VANDUSEN, Member of the Society.-The question has been raised here of the discretionary powers of the engineer in charge, and 1 would like to speak of a point in regard to them which came under my knowledge in regard to the celebrated $9 000 000 appropriation for the canal work. We had a very rigid specification. The estimates there were something like, as I recall them, 30 cents for earth and, I think, $1.50 for rock. At one place there we had rock, which in this locality was shale. When it was uncovered and they had drilled down and blasted it, it would come up in great horizontal blocks that could be easily barred up for quite an extent, and then by a derrick lifted cn to the bank very easily. At another place, less than 10 yards from it, all that was necessary to do in regard to that rock was to uncover it, and the next day, when they were ready to begin the excavation, the men could dig it up with their shovels. In a very short time the atmosphere would reduce it to such a consistency that it could be removed as easily as dirt in that locality. At the same time, in that same neighborhood, almost a stone's throw from this same rock, there was a layer of clay, and I have seen them at work on that. In some places they attempted to blast it. They put down a blast and when it was exploded it would merely blow out into a little pit 2 or 3 ft. across, and would not affect the surrounding earth at all, and an attempt to pick it .out with a pick: and shovel was extremely laboyious, because they could only shave it off in small, thin cuttings, the width of the pick blade. According to the strict specifications, they were getting 30 cents a cubic yard for that excavation. On the other hand. for shale rock, which was reduced to the consistency of cream almost, they were getting $1.50. It happened that our Resident Engineer was a man of very liberal mind and he used his discretion in the matter very liberally, and he proportioned this matter of the price in such a way as to give a little more nearer justice to the contractor and allow him in his estimates a certain percentage of that clay earth as rock so as to bring it up to something like justice to him. Otherwise he wollld have lost a great deal on that particular section. It occurred in this case that his rock excavation was really cheaper than the earth, and that if the engineer had not used his discretion in the matter, the contractor would have lost a great deal of money on that one small section. MR. HENRYI. LURTE,Member of the Society.-There was one thing the speaker of the evening mentioned which struck me as very true and to which we ought to give careful consideration. He stated that plans and specifications should give every detail to enable the contractor to give an honest and'sensible bid. We give the contractor all the information regarding grades, lines and other measurements, but very few plans, and especially city plans, give any information regarding geological formation, and, if DLSCUSSION ON PL~NSAND SPECIFICATIONS.

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