Fifth Session - Fortieth Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of

Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs

Chairperson Mr. Ted Marcelino Constituency of Tyndall Park

Vol. LXVIII No. 3 - 2 p.m., Wednesday, December 16, 2015

ISSN 1708-668X MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature

Member Constituency Political Affiliation

ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne, Hon. St. James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Greg, Hon. Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LATHLIN, Amanda NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Thomas, Hon. Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder, Hon. The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie, Hon. Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant Gimli – Vacant Southdale – 21

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS Wednesday, December 16, 2015

TIME – 2 p.m. Before the committee can proceed with the business before it, it must elect a new Chairperson. LOCATION – Winnipeg, Manitoba Are there any nominations for this position? CHAIRPERSON – Mr. Ted Marcelino Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and (Tyndall Park) Advanced Learning): I'll nominate Mr. Marcelino. VICE-CHAIRPERSON – Ms. Amanda Lathlin Clerk Assistant: Mr. Marcelino's been nominated. (The Pas) Are there any other nominations? ATTENDANCE – 11 QUORUM – 6 Hearing no other nominations, Mr. Marcelino, Members of the Committee present: will you please take the Chair. Hon. Messrs. Allum, Chomiak, Mr. Chairperson: Thank you. Our next item of Hon. Ms. Irvin-Ross, Hon. Messrs. Lemieux, business is the election of a Vice-Chairperson. Selinger Are there any nominations? Messrs. Cullen, Eichler, Goertzen, Ms. Lathlin, Mr. Allum: I would like to nominate Ms. Lathlin. Messrs. Marcelino, Pedersen Mr. Chairperson: Are there any other nominations? APPEARING: Hearing none, Ms. Amanda Lathlin has been Hon. , MLA for River Heights nominated–has been elected as Vice-Chairperson. Ms. Shipra Verma, Chief Electoral Officer This meeting has been called to consider MATTERS UNDER CONSIDERATION: the following reports: No. 1, the Annual Report of for the year ending Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the December 31, 2011 including the conduct of the year ending December 31, 2011 including the 40th Provincial General Election October 4, 2011; conduct of the 40th Provincial General Election Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year October 4, 2011 ending December 31, 2012 including the conduct of Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the the Fort Whyte by-election September 4, 2012; year ending December 31, 2012 including Permanent Voters List Study, report dated the conduct of the Fort Whyte by-election June 2013; Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for September 4, 2012 the year ending December 31, 2013; Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending Permanent Voters List Study, dated June 2013 December 31, 2014 including the conduct of the 2014 Arthur-Virden and Morris by-elections. Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the year ending December 31, 2013 Before we get started, are there any suggestions from the committee as to how long we should sit this Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the afternoon? year ending December 31, 2014 including the Mr. (Steinbach): Until 4 p.m. or conduct of the 2014 Arthur-Virden and Morris sooner if there are no further questions from by-elections committee members. * * * Mr. Chairperson: Are there any other suggestions? Is that agreed? [Agreed] Clerk Assistant (Mr. Andrea Signorelli): Good afternoon. Will the Standing Committee on Are there any suggestions as to the order in Legislative Affairs please come to order. which we should consider the reports? 22 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015

Mr. Goertzen: A global discussion. recent elections including the federal election and if we as a province can learn from this. Mr. Chairperson: Any other suggestions? The federal government has signalled that they An Honourable Member: Agreed. will have an all-party task force to review and make Mr. Chairperson: Does the honourable First recommendations on changes to the way federal Minister wish to make an opening statement? And elections are conducted. We will be keeping a close would he please introduce the officials in attendance, eye on the process, and I look forward to seeing if any. what–where they go with that. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Okay, I'm going to Also, I'm pleased to be able to say that–tell the need a little help with this. First of all, our Chief committee today that once Prime Minister Trudeau's Electoral Officer is Shipra Verma, and I'll ask her to plan has been made, we will be–made public, we will introduce her staff. be striking our own all-party committee to tour the province and hear from Manitobans on electoral Ms. Shipra Verma (Chief Electoral Officer): reform here in Manitoba. Tracy Nylen, Manager of Elections Finances, and Mark Robertson, Manager of Elections Operations. Since we last met, we have been working on development of a permanent voters list, as we Mr. Chairperson: We thank the honourable First discussed last year. We were given advice that Minister. to prepare for a permanent voters list, voters enumerated for the next general election should be Can you please make your opening statement requested to provide their gender and date of birth in then? addition to their name and address. Having that Mr. Selinger: Yes, thank you. information would allow each voter to be uniquely identified, which would facilitate the creation of an I'm pleased to provide this opportunity to speak accurate and up-to-date permanent voters list. to the committee this afternoon. Today we are We introduced and passed Bill 45, The dealing with the contents of Elections Manitoba Elections Amendment Act, enhanced enumeration. 2014, the annual reports, as well as other outstanding In preparation for the 2016 general election, Bill 45 reports. amends The Elections Act to enable enumerators to I would like to start by thanking the Chief ask eligible voters to provide their gender and date of Electoral Officer and other election officials who birth. The information will be requested when voters join us here today. This committee meeting provides apply to have their name added to the voters list on elected officials with an opportunity to share their election day or during advanced voting or when ideas on Elections Manitoba's operation and their voters apply to vote as an absentee or a homebound ideas on how to strengthen our electoral process. voter. The information that is collected will form the basis for a permanent voters list to be used for any Open and fair elections are the foundation of our election held in 2020 and afterwards. democratic system, this committee and all-party * (14:10) support here helps strengthen not only this Assembly and its institutions, such as Elections Manitoba, but Bill 45 made other minor amendments to the also our democratic process as a whole. act recommended by the Chief Electoral Officer, including allowing separate voting stations in In particular, I'm also looking forward to hearing residences for seniors and people with disabilities. It from Elections Manitoba and from other members on also permits a voting station already established for a the preparations for the general election in 2016. I'm health-care facility to be used for voting by seniors pleased to see that work is being done to increase and people with disabilities who live in a co-located voter participation and to make voting more easy and residence. We appreciate the Opposition House convenient. It's good to see work is being done to Leader and the member of River Heights for engage young voters and future voters. I'm looking supporting this legislation. forward to hearing about some of the social-media strategy and other strategies in this regard. I'm also We're also looking–working on the idea of looking forward to hearing from the Chief Electoral integrating the Manitoba Health card with Manitoba Officer about the experience they have seen with driver's licences and identification cards issued by December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 23 the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation. This better accomplished through alternate methods of could assist with voter participation and assist communication. citizens when voting. Our next recommendation is to establish a set Thank you for the opportunity to speak this election period for a set-date election rather than the afternoon. That will conclude my remarks at this current variable period of 28 to 35 days. This will time. allow better management of expenses by campaigns. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the honourable First Finally, to shorten the revision period from Minister. 29 days to 26 days. This will allow more time to deliver the revised voters list to all advanced voting Does the official opposition wish to make an locations in time for the first weekend of advance opening statement? voting. Mr. Goertzen: Not a statement, so much. I just We also have two recommendations under The want to thank the Chief Electoral Officer and her Election Financing Act. The first recommendation staff for being here with us this afternoon to will allow for a more effective application of the late participate in this process, which I think we always filing fee provision, specifically, a 30-day deadline find enlightening and thank her for her report and her for remitting the fee once notice is received from our recommendations, and we look forward to asking office. some questions but also to hearing her comments as well. Our second recommendation is on government advertising. Before discussing the recommendation, Mr. Chairperson: We thank the member. I'd like to make some comments about section 92, Does the Chief Electoral Officer, Ms. Verma, the government advertising provision. This is wish to make an opening statement? a section that receives considerable amount of attention and poses some interpretive challenges. In Ms. Verma: Yes, I do. the interest of promoting a consistent understanding, I want to take this opportunity to provide some Mr. Chairperson: Please go ahead. clarification on the provision. Ms. Verma: Thank you for inviting me and my staff Section 92 is part of an act whose primary to discuss the tabled reports this afternoon. I'll be purpose is to ensure fairness and accountability in providing a brief overview of the 2014 activities as the way money is raised and spent during election outlined in our annual report; also summarize the campaigns. Among other provisions, the act includes outstanding recommendations from the report and limits on campaign spending. We understand that the detail the activities carried out by my office in 2015. primary purpose of section 92 is to ensure fairness by In our annual report of 2015, we have reported preventing government resources being used to on the operational conduct and financial details of circumvent the campaign spending limits outlined the by-elections in Morris and Arthur-Virden on– in the act. This section achieves this goal by which was held on January 28th. There was included preventing government departments from advertising several recommendations, and I'll speak to those or promoting government programs or activities that are still outstanding. There are five under The during a specified blackout period. Although every Elections Act. case is different and any complaint must be examined individually, here are a few general points The first one relates to absentee voting. We are of interpretation I can provide. recommending to expand the timeline for the delivery and return of ballot kits for absentee voters First, the words publish and advertise must be to allow voters a longer period to return their ballots. construed broadly. They do not only refer to paid We're also recommending to reduce the number of advertisements or written publication, but include names required for a completed nomination form and any dissemination of information to the general require the name of the individual collecting the public. A publication, for example, includes a signatures be identified on the nomination paper; speech made at a public event. Of course, not all also, to remove the requirement to post the notice of publications or advertisements are prohibited by election in each rural voting area, as this can be section 92; they're only prohibited if they are by a 24 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015 government department or Crown agency and if they ministers, from acting in their capacity as candidates concern its programs or activities. during an election campaign. Members running for office and those assisting them are free to campaign Secondly, a government department or Crown on the government's record. They are free to talk agency will be involved in a publication or about and disseminate information about government advertisement if it is involved in any intermediate programs and activities as long as they do so in their steps taken to achieve the dissemination of capacity as candidates or volunteers on behalf of information to the public. So, for example, a candidates and as long as no government resources campaign ad placed by the governing party would are being used. nonetheless be in breach of section 92 if the text of the ad has been prepared by a government And, finally, this section is also not intended to department. halt government business. It limits dissemination of information; it does not prevent the government from Thirdly, a department or Crown agency will be acting. involved in a step in the publication or advertisement if any of its resources have been used or expended in These guidelines do not constitute an advisory connection with the publication or advertisement. In opinion under section 96 of The Election Financing the example just given, a government department Act and are not binding on the Commissioner that prepared the text of an advertisement would of Elections when investigating future complaints. have used staff time for that purpose. They have been prepared, however, in consultation with the commissioner and are based upon Fourthly, ministers themselves are part of their Elections Manitoba's and the commissioner's current departments and can therefore be government understanding of section 92. Our recommendation resources–may–I'm sorry, can therefore be seeks to clarify and strengthen the provision on government resources involved in a publication. government advertising by including the words use Ministers, however, will only be involved in a of government finances or resources in section 92. government advertisement by their department if This would more clearly articulate the intent of the they are acting in their capacity as a minister as provision and could help address some of the opposed, for example, to acting as–in the capacity challenges in interpretation. as a candidate in an election. To simplify matters and in keeping with the overall intent of the I hope this has shed some light on section 92 legislation, we understand ministers to be acting in as well as providing some context for our their capacity as ministers only if some further recommendation. That being said, our office respects government resources has been–have been used the 2006 decision of the legislators to separate the to support their involvement in a publication. investigative and prosecution responsibilities from For example, where a department sets up a press the assistance and compliance role through the conference for a minister, department resources have creation of a Commissioner of Elections. Hence, it been used, and so the minister is acting in the press will not be appropriate for me to comment on any conference in his capacity as a minister. In that case, specific or hypothetical cases related to government both the department and minister are involved in advertising. the publication. The situation would be different, Now moving on to our activities of the current however, when department sources have not been year and election year ahead, on April 21st, a used to provide the minister with a platform to speak. by-election in The Pas was held due to the If a reporter bumps into a minister in a hallway at the resignation of Mr. Frank Whitehead. Ms. Amanda Legislature, for example, the minister can answer a Lathlin was declared elected, and the turnout was 21 question without violating section 92. The meeting per cent. Operational conduct and financial details of has not been arranged using government resources. the by-election will be provided in the next annual We recognize that in some cases, this distinction report. may appear artificial, but we believe, and it–it is in As you know, the 41st general election will be keeping with the overall purpose of section 92 that held on April 19th. As in 2011, we will follow a government resources not to be used to assist the 75-day calendar. You have been provided with a campaign of the governing party. summary calendar that indicates the milestone dates. The next point is the section is not intended to To assist with election planning and request prevent members of the government, including feedback, we have circulated electoral division maps December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 25 to all the registered parties earlier this year. We'll legislation. This will be the first general election in also be providing the parties with street keys and which third-party rules will be in place. community keys in January. We are again planning Finally, in support of our compliance assistance to make advance voting available at a variety of mandate, we are providing information sessions for high-traffic locations, including airports, airport all political participants to clarify their roles and malls and universities. responsibilities under The Election Financing Act. Now I'd like to highlight some of our That concludes my remarks for today. Thank communication and outreach activities for the you for your time, and I'll be pleased to answer any upcoming election. Given the timing of the election, questions you may have. we are anticipating a high proportion of voters may be away during enumeration. In November, Mr. Chairperson: We thank the Chief Electoral we began an absentee voting campaign to target Officer, and the floor is now open for questions. snowbirds with ads at the airport, in print and Mr. Goertzen: Couple–thank you very much for online. Absentee applications are available on our your introductory comments and also for the points website. Despite these efforts, we anticipate that the that you made about section 92, which is, I know, number of snowbirds may have an impact on the always an issue of contention, and some of the completeness of the preliminary voters list, and they different breaches and supposed breaches of that may also be challenged with the winter road portion. conditions. Can you talk a little bit about–you mentioned * (14:20) speeches being part of a blackout period, and I'm not talking about any particular breach or specific breach In January, we'll be launching a new mobile app in relation to any individual. Just in terms of your called Manitoba votes 2016. This app will provide comments, you mentioned that speeches by the mobile users with quick access to the voting government could be considered a breach of information, including the list of candidates in the section 92. Can you just elaborate on that a little bit division, voting locations, key dates as well as job further? Would that be all speeches, or they have to opportunities. be in a public forum where people are invited? In an effort to engage young voters in the Would that include party speeches? What province, we are collaborating with post-secondary specifically were you referring to there? institutions across the province to provide Ms. Verma: I–the speeches which are being referred information to students about voting opportunities, to are more media conferences which have been eligibility and residency requirements and job organized using government departments or opportunities. For the youngest voters and soon-to-be resources. We are also highlighting that there is a voters, we'll again be offering a student information recognition that an individual can be acting in the officer program. The program aims to promote capacity of a minister or as a candidate, so that participation, build awareness of the electoral distinction also needs to considered. Plus, what kind process while providing paid work experience. We of communication is–it is. It's the published and will invite all Manitoba high schools to participate. advertised, which is considered to be quite broad. Another area of focus in our outreach Mr. Goertzen: How does it break down in terms of– is Manitoba First Nation communities. We you mentioned, you know, a member can be acting are engaging with several community-based as a minister if they're a minister of the Crown, or as organizations to provide information to their a candidate, but they can also be acting as an constituents. We're planning to have community MLA, right, separately from a minister of the Crown liaison officers in all the First Nation communities to or a candidate. So how are those responsibilities assist with enumeration, recruitment and voting. impacted? If you're a minister but you're also an MLA, what restrictions exist on the MLA portion of In the fall, we took our education program to it? several northern communities, providing election workshops to almost 900 students in Norway House, Ms. Verma: I won't be able to provide a lot of detail Flin Flon, Pas, Thompson and Churchill. Another on that distinction. Again, these were very general item for the upcoming election is the new third-party guidelines or interpretations that we have developed 26 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015 in consultation with the commissioner to give that is required at that time to solicit proposals or some clarification to that provision. That provision tenders for contracts, matters related to public health is a complex provision, and any scenario will have or safety, and in case of Crown agencies, in to be considered based on lots of circumstances continuation of earlier advertisements or publications surrounding that scenario. So it's a little difficult for are permissible. Also, during a by-election, what is me to answer your question. also accepted is matters before the Assembly during the election period of a by-election, such as a Throne Mr. Goertzen: But supposedly, or–I assume that Speech, the budget, the introduction or passage of a if a minister is using their special assistant or bill, or an order or resolution of the Assembly. This their executive assistant–which are order-in-council exception is only applicable for a by-election. appointments, so they're government appointments– and they're using those resources to do MLA work Mr. Goertzen: So, for greater clarity, the issue during the blackout period, that that would be seems to be less about the activity; it seems to be considered a conflict because the–or in–it would about the publication and the advertisement of it. Is be in violation of section 92 because it's the use that correct? of government resources. Is that–is it the resources Ms. Verma: That's correct. issue that drives it? Mr. Goertzen: Specifically about tenders– Ms. Verma: I believe it is the use of government government tenders–and I understand there's an resources in order to have a government exception that deals with–I can't remember the exact communication. The use of resources in the capacity terminology of the act in front of you–something in of an MLA are guided by a different set of rules terms of proposals. I know that there's restrictions which are not under The Election Financing Act. around proposals, but tenders–are tenders allowed Mr. Goertzen: And there are exceptions within within the blackout period? section 92 that would apply to things that happen Ms. Verma: The exception states that what is–it in the Legislature. Is that correct, that there are does not apply to an advertisement or publication legislative functions that can continue on in terms of that is required at that time to solicit proposals or bills or budgets that provide an exception to tenders for contracts or application for employment section 92? with a government department or Crown agency. Ms. Verma: Section 92 has a set of exceptions, but Mr. Goertzen: And that's true for either a general they are different for a general election and there is election or a by-election. Is that correct? an additional one for a by-election. For a by-election, there is a specific exception that government Ms. Verma: Yes, that is correct, for both general business can continue. For the general election, that and by-election. exception is not there. However, as I'd mentioned, Mr. Goertzen: Can you give us a bit of an update the government advertising restrictions are not meant on, sort of, preparations for the current election in to stop the government from doing its business, but terms of hirings, or have you completed the hirings it's basically to prevent government resources to be that you need to do, cost of the election as compared used for campaigning purposes. to, perhaps, the last election, those sort of issues? Mr. Goertzen: Or for the publication of certain Ms. Verma: We have–our hiring of returning things, right? So something could happen in the officers and assistant returning officers is 99 per cent Legislature, whether it's a bill or a motion or a completed. We have still two vacancies in the budget or whatever those things might be, but province. It's like an ongoing business of hiring the restriction is on the publication and the because circumstances change, and after the federal advertisement of those specific things that are election we did see a high level of turnover in our happening. Is that correct? staff. Ms. Verma: Section 92 states: A government The training of all the returning officers and department or Crown agency must not advertise or assistant returning officers has been completed. The publish any information about its programs or last training session was done in November. The activities. So that's the restriction. ROs and AROs are now in the process of finalizing It also says that the exception is that their office locations, the voting places, voting areas. advertisement or a publication that is required by law Mapping work has been completed. We are also in December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 27 the process of finalizing the keys and the street keys looking out the window, that a lot of them may which will be provided to the parties next month. have even left by now. Where is that advertising happening? Is it all here or is it in places where the Can I ask him to repeat the second question? snowbirds might actually be? * (14:30) Ms. Verma: The absentee campaign started in Mr. Chairperson: Mr. Goertzen, please do. November. Based on statistics, the major flight happens beginning in November. There are some Mr. Goertzen: It's like the media. They ask a people who do leave in October too, but if you're question about what you're doing, but, of course, looking at the six months' residency, then we are they always ask, what are the costs? So the second expecting people to be back by April who leave in part of my question was the cost of the election and October. The advertising campaign is happening at maybe the comparison to the last election. several places. It's at the airport, at the Winnipeg Ms. Verma: The cost of the last election was airport. It's also–we have targeted websites which $11.9 million for the election activities and around are used more for snowbirds. Online ads are there. $3 million for the reimbursement of election We have also targeted 55-plus or senior complexes expenses to the candidates and parties. The election around the province. Posters have gone up in all of cost which we are budgeting for the next election is those apartments for registration or application for $13.1 million. The increase is primarily due to the absentee voting. And, in some rural newspapers also, change in the tariff, a CPI increase and also some advertisement has been placed. additional media plan that we have implemented for Mr. Goertzen: So that advertising might take place absentee voters and for recruitment purposes. on–I'm not a snowbird, so I'm sort of guessing on Considering the timing of the election, our this; I might have to ask others about this, but if media campaign has begun from November for you're looking at the Winnipeg Free Press, where a absentee voters and also for recruitment of election lot of people look at our local paper to keep up with workers. You may have heard or seen ads on hiring the news, is that where–the kind of places where that of enumerators that we have started. We are advertising would happen? anticipating a few more challenges considering it will be February when we'll be enumerating and it Ms. Verma: Yes, that's correct. We were able to–we is difficult to find people to work with -30° worked with Communications Services to identify to -40° temperature in Manitoba. We are also looking which are the websites which are usually seen by at the safety of election workers, and in some places, absent–or by snowbirds. They have research to we are doubling up the enumerators, especially in support that data. So based on their recommendation rural areas where there is driving involved, just for and also in consultation with the returning officers, the safety of the election workers. Also, in certain we were able to identify which will be the possible downtown locations and areas of higher safety, we media places where ads might be more effective. are also partnering an enumerator with two people. Mr. Goertzen: There's no billboards in Mesa that We have also started with other measures of–there'll have been taken out on voting in Manitoba. Now, be headlights or headlamps for the enumerators. billboards would be an extreme example. There's no They will be also, some places, be given leg specific advertising happening in places outside of warmers, hand warmers, foot warmers. Plus, we are Manitoba? working with the City to ensure that–or to work with them that snow clearing may become a priority Ms. Verma: No. The advertisement is in Manitoba. for them for the sidewalk clearing during the But the online ads can be accessed by people who enumeration time period and also, in some places, are outside Manitoba, and that's why we have for additional police force, if it's required, just so that targeted the online ads quite significantly during–for they are aware that enumerators will be out, because the absentee campaign. there'll be 3,000–minimum 3,000 people out during Mr. Goertzen: The workers that you've hired–and February and March. I'm glad to hear that the vast majority of that's done– Mr. Goertzen: The advertising that you're doing for were a lot of them working in the federal election? absentee voters to make snowbirds aware of their Did we pick up people who had worked in the ability to vote when they're not here, I'm assuming, federal election to continue working provincially? 28 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015

Ms. Verma: Our recruitment campaign had started There was also a concern about long lineups in 2014. So, at that point, we were not aware of during advance voting. Statistics what we have from who'll be working in the federal campaign, but over federal campaign right now–it's preliminary–but we the time period, there were some workers who have understand there were around 200 advance voting worked in–during the federal campaign in different locations in Manitoba. We have 291 in the last capacities. It could be as a returning officer or an election; we'll be close to 300 again for this election. assistant returning officer or even as trainers or Our voting rules are different–and federally, you can election day workers. So–and to some level, I think only vote in your electoral division during advance that experience has been beneficial to them, for the voting; provincially, you can vote anywhere. new workforce which has joined our team. We also have a larger outreach in–for The other–we have been cautious about–we high-traffic voting locations, which were not–which made them aware that the rules for federal wasn't present federally. So, having places at the campaigns are different for the–as compared to the airport, which will be going again, at the malls, the provincial. A common example is we don't require universities and colleges. We're also looking at– ID to vote on election day. Federally, ID to vote–ID it's preliminary discussions, but we're looking at is required to vote on election day. Plus, there is–the working with Health Sciences Centre if we can set terminology is different; rules are different. So, in up an advance voting location there. our training, we did emphasize to be mindful about Mr. Goertzen: So those locations for advance polls, the distinction between the federal campaign and the and then I'm not even sure about the regular polls on provincial election. election day. Have they been established and set? Mr. Goertzen: Watching the federal election, Ms. Verma: Most of the election day voting stations though, from Elections Manitoba perspective, were has–have been set. That was part of the mapping there lessons that were learned that–from that exercise that we had done earlier and also the street experience that you'll be putting into place in the keys, which we'll be providing to the parties. In provincial election? January, we'll be providing them with a list of all the advance voting locations–of election day voting Ms. Verma: We did receive some feedback from the locations. election workers on their experience in the federal campaign, and we have taken that feedback, and we Advance, most of the locations, again, it's a work have incorporated that in our training. in progress. We are, for one-day lease or eight days' lease, people need time to have that materialized, but Mr. Goertzen: What kind of feedback would that our mobile app, which is also getting launched in be? What were the kinds of experiences that they January, it will include the search for what is a were having? voting location. Ms. Verma: Some of the feedback was in relation to So our goal is right now, by end of December to training. The federal campaign did an–they had made finalize all the locations. Some may not still be a significant investment in online training. What the– finalized. I'm anticipating ones like in the mall, like what we heard was it was effective, but they also Portage Place, Polo Park and St. Vital; that is taking prefer the in-house, the in-person training. So, given time, and they usually finalize those locations more that it's only for–many people work for a day; closer to the event rather than three months ahead of they'd like the opportunity to ask questions. So– time. and luckily for us, we have incorporated–we have * (14:40) six new videos which we'll be using for training. These videos will be available on our website. The Mr. Goertzen: So, if I understood correctly, then, videos are on enumeration, advance voting and candidates or parties will be provided with the on election day voting. So–and our training session polling station list early in January. Is that correct? is interactive, so we do have a combination of Ms. Verma: That is the plan. That's correct. PowerPoint presentation, the training videos will be available, and it's in person. So that was a major Mr. Goertzen: And–I guess I could probably find it feedback that we received was in the training on the list you provided–the electoral lists will be program. provided to candidates on what date? December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 29

Ms. Verma: March 10th is the date when the Ms. Verma: It's an initial review of the return. If preliminary list will be produced. So I'm anticipating it seems to be complete and accurate, then the 10th or 11th the candidates will have their voters list. allowance will be processed. We will also check– the allowance is calculated in relation to the Mr. Goertzen: And that's provided in some administrative expenses, so that's another form of electronic form, correct? It's on a disk, still, right? It's check which is done. not provided by email transmission? Mr. Goertzen: Now, the allowance–sorry, I may Ms. Verma: It is still provided on a CD, which is have been confused. The allowance is based on the password protected. We have a security system that number of votes that the political party received in once a CD is provided, then somebody from the the previous general election. Is that correct? candidate's campaign office has to call us then to access the security password. We also provide a print Ms. Verma: So the allowance has two components. copy if that's requested. Every party is eligible to receive $100 for every candidate they have nominated in the election. That Mr. Goertzen: And what format–this is not my area amount is deducted from $600,000. The balance of expertise, you'll find out quickly–but what format amount is proportionately distributed among all the is that database provided in? parties based on the average of general election votes Ms. Verma: I think it's Access-based. received in the preceding two general elections. Once that number has been established, then the Mr. Goertzen: Just a couple of questions regarding– allowance is lesser of the party's administrative I think everybody calls it the vote tax, but I know operating and compliance expenses, as documented that's not what it's called. I think it's a per-vote on their annual return, and as per Bill 47, it caps the subsidy, or there must be a more formal name for it allowance to the greater of $100,000 or the amount that you'll advise me of. The date at which it's that is 30 per cent less than the calculated amount, applied for by political parties and when it's actually the formula which I'd explained earlier, as set out in distributed to political parties? the regulation. Ms. Verma: The political parties can, when they Mr. Goertzen: That was pretty simple. Going back submit their annual return for a calendar year, at that to the timing of it, though, so if a political party time, unless they decline to accept the allowance, it submits their annual return very early in January, will be provided to them. The deadline for the annual they then receive the per vote subsidy, the vote tax, return is 31st of March, so that is usually the time almost at the time that they've submitted the report, period, unless they ask for an extension. presuming that it's complete, and that would be for Mr. Goertzen: So the political returns are–have to the previous calendar year that they're receiving it be provided by March 31st, and then is it an for. Is that correct? automatic that the–full disclosure, everybody knows Ms. Verma: The payment can depend–it usually this, but for the record, I mean, the Conservative– takes at least two weeks before we'll disburse the Progressive Conservative Party doesn't accept the annual allowance amount, and it can vary depending per-vote subsidy. But it is filed–but maybe that may upon how complete the return is or if there are any have been a surprise to the member for Dawson Trail immediate questions about the return. (Mr. Lemieux) and I'm happy to inform him and his constituents. But the March 31st date, you get–it And the allowance is in relation the preceding gets–that's the deadline. Is it an automatic, then, that year or the year for which the return has been filed. the–that that cheque gets cut, or is there a auditing So, in 2015, the annual allowance was paid for 2014 process that first has to happen? as the return was for 2014. In 2016, by March 31st, Ms. Verma: Unless it has been expressly declined, each party has to submit their annual return for the the annual allowance will be processed if the return year ending 31st December, 2015. They have three is complete. months so that they can complete the return, get it audited and file it with us. If a party can do it by end Mr. Goertzen: So there's some form of a check of January, then we'll process the return accordingly. there, then, just to make sure that it's complete, but it's not an auditing function per se. It's just making Mr. Goertzen: Okay, so I think I got it–well, the sure the lines are filled in properly or there's timing issue, not the formula, which I'll have to go something on every line? back on Hansard to figure that out. 30 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015

But the timing issue, then, it's not a–just for could also be nomination, because nomination papers certainty, it's not a–it's a calendar year, not a fiscal cannot be accepted 'til the time writ has been issued. year. It's not a March–or April 1st to March 31st; it's So, for us to process 200 nomination every calendar year that the subsidy is provided for. applications for seven days versus 14 days, there's a Is that correct? difference in the timing of it, and it does cause some Ms. Verma: That's correct. Under The Election tension for the parties and candidates when the Financing Act, all the returns other than the election turnaround has to be quicker but we still have to returns, when we speak about the annual returns, complete the whole verification process in a more they all follow a calendar year. So the parties follow condensed time period. It was done successfully last a calendar year; the constituency associations follow election. We are prepared to do it in whatever time a calendar year. The loans and deficit returns for the frame is available for us. candidates, for leadership contestant, all follow a Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Chairperson, am I allowed to ask calendar year. questions of the Premier (Mr. Selinger) during this Mr. Goertzen: My last question is about–you've had committee as well? a number of recommendations that you provided in Mr. Chairperson: I believe so, for as long as it's your 2014 annual report, and I thank you for that. I limited to the report. know a lot of them have been outstanding for a while. * (14:50) The issue of the election date–we have a fixed An Honourable Member: I'm sure you'll keep me election day in terms of when the election is held but in line if I'm not, Mr. Chairperson. not a fixed start date. What problems does that cause Mr. Chairperson: Please proceed, Mr. Goertzen. from an Elections Manitoba perspective? Mr. Goertzen: Would the Premier care to disclose Ms. Verma: From an administrative perspective, the start date of the election? We know the end date there are no real challenges. This was more–the of the election, but would he care to disclose, in the recommendation is more geared towards campaign context of fairness, the start date of the election? spending. If you know–there are election spending Mr. Selinger: Some thought it started yesterday, but limits for an election period. So, if you know that it hasn't officially started yet, and that day will be you have, say, $50,000 to spend in 28 days or announced in due course. $50,000 to spend in 35 days, it gives more clarity to the campaigns when they're planning for their Mr. Goertzen: Does the Premier agree with the budgeting purposes. recommendation that it would be more equitable if there was a set start date in addition to a set end In relation to third party, it can also be helpful, date? because third-party spending limits are applicable for an election period. So not knowing when the Mr. Selinger: I appreciate the rationale put forward election period will commence can also pose some by our Chief Electoral Officer in terms of adding challenges. We don't know that yet; this will be the certainty to expenditures and budgeting procedures, first election where third–first general election where and that's something that we will take due regard of. third-party restrictions will be applicable. There's also–the original flexibility, I believe, was put in place to allow for unforeseen events Mr. Goertzen: And I guess it causes problems for which might occur, and planning around that when political parties as well because they're limited, in an they do occur and to allow for some flexibility. And, election year, how much they're able to spend, and I as the member knows, the notion of a fixed-date guess they don't know exactly when that will end, if election is relatively new to the Westminster system they don't know when the election date's going to of governance and elections in Canada. It's an item start within a context of seven days. Is that right? that has come here from what appears to be Ms. Verma: Yes, there are spending limits outside American experience on fixed election dates, and I the election period for political parties and for think there's a wide public discussion whether fixed candidates. So not knowing when the election period election dates are to be desired or not desired in our will commence may pose other challenges to them. type of democracy. For some people, it gives greater The other factor for the parties and the candidates certainty as to when the election will occur. For other December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 31 people, it means that the election period and the require less names. Saskatchewan, four; Alberta, 25; campaigning period, in many cases, at least at an British Columbia, 75. Many jurisdictions range in informal level, can go on for a longer period of time the–around 25 names. So, considering the research, and distracts from the governance functions of the concerns raised in the advisory committee, and government. also looking at the size of the electoral division, we established that 100 names may be more than what is So there's lots of debate on that. We have necessary, given in Manitoba context, so that is why adopted a system of a specific date by legislation our recommendation came about to reduce the with about a seven-day flexibility period as to when number of names. it starts, and we're completely open to reviewing that in terms of the pros and cons of that going forward. To also point out the other jurisdictions also require a deposit, like, Canada requires a deposit Mr. Goertzen: The Premier (Mr. Selinger), though, of $1,000; Saskatchewan, $100; Alberta, $500. We has committed–I know he has pros and cons about a don't have a candidate deposit requirement. So there set election date–he's committed, though, to this may be a requirement to have a balance between the particular election date as being firm and the date number of names and the deposit. that the election is going to be held on. Is that correct? Mr. Goertzen: My experience as a candidate has been that when we're collecting those signatures, Mr. Selinger: The date's set in legislation, and that is people are confused in terms of why we're collecting the date that I believe will be the election. the signatures, because they already, generally, see Mr. Goertzen: There may have been some us as the candidate at that point because there's been confusion. I know his chief of staff had talked about enough awareness that we've been the candidate or it in the Winnipeg Free Press about not even having that others are candidates in those areas. So they're a session, which, I don't think, is actually allowed confused about why it is we're collecting them, and under our rules, so there may have been some they ask questions about, well, I thought you already confusion about that. were the candidate. Did you want to clear up any of that confusion? And, increasingly, I think that there are privacy concerns. People are wondering why you're Mr. Selinger: I'd be happy to see the article. The collecting their addresses, and that's just with the date is April 19th, as set by law, and we have a overall concerns that people have, I guess, about sessional order as to what remaining time we have privacy and some of the things that have happened in for a session that we've all agreed on. a negative way. When people collect data, even Mr. Goertzen: I could show him the article, but he though that's not financial data or particularly perhaps should just talk to his chief of staff, because personal, people still feel a sense of intrusion, I his chief of staff talked about whether or not it was think, sometimes. even desirable to have a session prior to an election, Are any of those concerns–do–does Elections and I think the only way that could be avoided is to Manitoba hear any of those concerns at times? have the election prior to the set date, so he may want to examine that himself. Ms. Verma: What we have heard from candidates is that 100 names seems to be a bit of a hardship for the To the Chief Electoral Officer, the recommen- candidates to collect. dation on the signatures, the 100 signatures–can you expand on that a bit about why, historically, we have What my understanding is that collecting the those 100 signatures and why other jurisdictions names provides some sort of an assurance or a reality have gone to less signatures? check for the candidates to see what level of public support they have. For candidates who are already Ms. Verma: I'm not aware about the rationale for the visible, who are incumbents, they may not need that 100 signatures, how it came about. It has been there level of assurance from the public, but for new for a long time. Our recommendation came about candidates, they may be a requirement. So that could through a discussion in the advisory committee be one of the reasons for collecting names. where some members had expressed that, and we took that away and did some research around the Privacy concerns, we haven't heard a lot about 100 names. What we found was only Canada and that from either the voter while providing their Quebec require 100 names. All other jurisdictions names or the signatures. There's also a process of 32 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015 verification, so once those 100 names come, we do * (15:00) check them, check the addresses, check if they're Ms. Verma: So the Bill 45 which was recently already part of the voters list, they appear to be passed gave us the authority to collect name, date of residents or not. If there is any concern about it, if birth and gender information. What we are doing the handwriting looks similar, the signatures look with that is our enumeration videos–which will be similar, we do do other verification of calling the also on the website and in our communication people who have signed on the nomination papers to material, our advertisements–we will be including do verification. the new requirement to include–to collect date of Mr. Goertzen: But if I remember correctly–I don't birth and gender information. Our–we are including have forms in front of me, although I've read them at, that in our training of the election workers. We are you know, sort of four-year intervals–the forms don't trying to be also mindful of the fact that these are indicate that the person is supportive of the candidate optional information which is being provided. So the in terms of they're going to vote for them, it just enumerator should be requesting this information, means that they're okay with them running, right? but the voter doesn't have an obligation to provide They don't have a particular grievance with them for. having their name on the ballot, but it really isn't an All our manuals and guides have been indication of support, is it? changed. All our–some are in the process of being Ms. Verma: If I can clarify my previous response, changed. Forms have been changed for revision, for the support is not that you'll vote or don't vote for the homebound, absentee and the enumeration slip, candidate, but it's more to see–test their own public which is called 201, all those have been changed to awareness of who they are. Sometimes when you're incorporate the additional requirement for gender going collecting signatures, you are asked questions and date of birth. For the swear-on, again, the oath about which party will you be representing, what is books, there might be some changes coming up in your mandate. So assessing more about that public that to record that information. support rather than definitive support for voting or The current cost for implementing date of birth not voting for the candidate. and gender information is not significant. It's part of Mr. Goertzen: So, in comparison to other provinces, the process. We were updating the forms; we could I know, was reading the report that indicated that include those changes in it, and the printing of the Saskatchewan had as few as four signatures, and I'm forms had to be done to restock for the next election. not even sure what would be the value of that, if Going forward, when on a permanent voters list there's a legislative reason why there should be any report, we had provided an estimate that we will be signatures at all at that point. requiring around five new staffing resources in case But compared to other jurisdictions of similar a register has to be implemented. There will be sizes, I mean, what would seem to be maybe a better additional costs in relation to the security, our IT number? Do you have a suggestion? Is 25? Would network, program development, and after that, that seem to be something where it puts some onus program maintenance costs. The enumeration, we are on a candidate but isn't something that's restrictive or projecting, but will be budgeted around $3.2 million seems overly difficult for a candidate? for the 2016 general election. The cost for having those additional staffing resources and for the Ms. Verma: We don't have any recommendation on maintenance and development could be close to the exact number of signatures. We can provide you $2 million. We're not–I'm not 100 per cent sure about with the research, but I think this matter is best left to the number because it will also depend upon what the legislators to decide upon the number of names. kind of legislative requirements come through a permanent register. Mr. Goertzen: Can you talk a little bit about preparation for the permanent voters list? I know Mr. (Midland): I was wondering we've passed legislation to allow some of those if you could go back about identification required things to happen in terms of gathering information, to vote. And I'm thinking in terms of the but can you just talk a bit about what that process is federal election; they were fairly rigorous, but it and what the–we're again going back to those typical was worthwhile, as to my understanding. What reporter questions–what cost implications there may identification is required, both in the–on election day be to that? and advance polls and these, whatever it is you call December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 33 them, airport polls, or whatever it is, where you can to which he or she intends to return when away from vote anywhere? it. If you look at a strict interpretation of that legislation, people who have been residing here since Ms. Verma: So I'll start with the election day ID 2011 could be Winnipeg residents. Even if they may requirements. If you're already on the voters list want to return back, we don't know if the original through enumeration or through revision, then you residence is habitable or not. do not require any identification in order to vote on election day. If you are not on the voters list on The other issue which we are looking at is we election day, then ID requirements, as specified in don't have information about their addresses. That section 2 of The Elections Act, you either need information is with Red Cross, and due to privacy one piece of photo ID or two other pieces of reasons, they are not willing to share that information identification, which could be your health card, your with us. credit card bill, your hydro bill. And if any of these The third factor to consider is that–the way our pieces of ID do not have a proof of address, then you voters list is created. We go door to door collecting can sign a declaration for your current address. names through enumeration. Unlike the federal, who For advance voting, the provisions are–in have a permanent register, we don't even know Manitoba are that you can vote at any advance voting where these people are, so they could be spread out location. Advance voting occurs in two forms. You in Manitoba or in Winnipeg, so it's very difficult for can either be a resident advance voter; that means us to identify who is an evacuee right now. you belong to that particular electoral division in So this is a issue which we are still deliberating which you are voting. Or you could be a non-resident about how to deal with it. We are planning to discuss advance voter, meaning you're voting in an electoral it in the advisory meeting which will occur in division which is not your home electoral division. In January with the advisory committee members. either case, you require ID to vote, and the ID Until that time, we are planning to collect more requirements are the same as for swear-on, specified information, how it was dealt at a federal level and under section 2 of The Elections Act: one piece of how does our current legislation–can be adapted to photo ID or two other pieces of ID. If none of those make some special circumstances. We do want to have your address, then you can sign a declaration give the voters the right to vote where they would for your current address. like to vote, but what does the legislation say and Mr. (Lakeside): Appreciate your how can we apply it to the current scenario? presentation; it's very helpful. This is a unique circumstance. It has not been In regards to the voters and ID'ing the voters, considered in the current election–or legislation, but since the flood of 2011, we've had several residents we will be consulting with the advisory committee that's been out of their community for, you know, on this matter. some will be up to four years, some will be maybe Mr. Eichler: Are checks and balances in place to not quite that long. Some will return; some will not. ensure they're only voting once and not twice? Even How's that being determined for the voters list, and though they may be living in Winnipeg, they may how will that be communicated to the candidates or want to vote, say, in Dauphin if that's where their– the party? community they came from or whatever they're came Ms. Verma: So to give a bit of a background to that, from. How is that going to work? we understand–and these are numbers which we have received from Red Cross directly, as they are Ms. Verma: That is a risk which I would say is managing the evacuee program right now–from the present in all circumstances. Any voter who has two 2011 Interlake electoral division, the number which different pieces of ID with two separate residences, we have is 1,933 people are still out of Interlake or even if they don't have a residence, can declare division. We also have numbers from 2014 evacuees whatever residency they have while voting. of 332 people who are not–no longer in Interlake, so The checks and balances which we can have is, that gives us around 2,200 people. in case the voter is a non-resident voter, the vote is in If we go by the legislation, the residency a certificate envelope, and if we can identify they legislation states: A person is a resident of the place voted twice, the vote can be pulled out and not where he or she has his or her ordinary residence and counted. 34 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015

However, hypothetically, if an Interlake voter on 1st of February with the enumeration beginning is living in Winnipeg, gets enumerated on the on 4th of February. So any changes at this point will Winnipeg voters list, they can–and they probably be quite challenging to incorporate. have some ID showing that they are a resident of Winnipeg, they can go on election day, they don't Among the recommendations, the nomination need ID, they'll vote on election day. Prior to that, paper one, if it's required, we can make that they can go to the Interlake division, too, if they have adjustment. It will still require quite a few changes in an ID and vote as a resident voter in Interlake. the manuals and guides and the forms and our website. It can be done. The way our voters list is created, it's individually done for every electoral division. There The leave of absence has already been is no collective, integrated provincial voters list. We implemented with the recent bill. Institution voting do put the names list together to provide it to the station has been included in the recent bill. Providing parties, but that happens post-event. copies of preliminary voters lists is done. Absentee voting, that one I will not recommend to be changed So there is that–it is an inherent risk in the at this point because absentee provisions are already process that there could be a person who has voted in place now. New brochures are out and people twice. Has it happened? Not to our knowledge. Can have already started applying for it. The absentee it happen? There is a possibility. provision will also require a consecutive change of providing–the way we have made the recommen- * (15:10) dation is that on an absentee ballot, either the name of the party or the name of the candidate can be Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Let me start written because we are recommending that the with the recommendations. There's quite a list of acceptance of the packages should begin once the recommendations which are still outstanding and writ has been issued and not once the nomination has carried forward starting on page 35 of the report, and been closed. I wanted to ask in general–I don't remember having had so many outstanding recommendations not being Notice of election, if that goes, I think we can implemented before. There would be–because we still implement that change. Set election period, it are sitting in February and March–there would be will require changes. Campaign finance material, a a possibility of passing legislation which would lot of changes will be required there. Revision implement some of these, but, of course, that would period–that–the timing of the production of the be very difficult because that's immediately before revised voters list will need to be changed, but it's the election and all the plans are in place at this something which can be implemented even right juncture. It–what would be your sense? It would not now. Restrictions on government advertising and be advisable to, it would seem to me, to implement recoverability of late-filing fee, they do not impact these before the election, given that circumstance, election planning from our perspective. but are there some which are so critical which Did I answer all the questions? [interjection] actually should be implemented before? Mr. Chairperson: Dr. Gerrard. Ms. Verma: Currently, there's seven recommen- dations which are outstanding. In the past, we have Mr. Gerrard: For somebody who's wanting an had a situation where there were lots of absentee ballot, right, when is the earliest date that recommendations which were outstanding; 2006, that person can register with you to get an absentee when The Elections Act was rewritten, the majority ballot? of the recommendations were incorporated in the new act at that point of time. Ms. Verma: They can register starting even now. We have started accepting the absentee applications. Right now, for election planning, our inventory The legislation states that before the writ has been of forms in all our–we are close to procurement of issued, the absentee applications have to be received most of the material because our first shipping will by our office so currently we are receiving. If the start in January, second week; our shipping is returning office is open, even if though they'll starting of all the computers and enumeration receive it, they'll forward it back to us because material. Election offices are scheduled to be opened that's the way legislation reads. Once the writ has December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 35 been issued, then we provide the applications to homebound voting application while the enumerator the returning offices to be processed. Once the is there, or the enumerator can leave an application nomination closed, that's the earliest when the with them and they can deliver it back to the applications can be received back from the absentee returning officer, mail it back to the returning officer applicants. at a later date. The homebound provisions in Manitoba allow not just a person with any disability Mr. Gerrard: Yes, on the absentee ballots which–if but also their caregiver to vote as homebound somebody wants to register, what is the process so voters. Once the application is received by the that if they were to register today, for example? returning officer and is processed accordingly, if it's Ms. Verma: The process to register for an absentee determined that the person is an eligible homebound applicant is they have to complete an application voter, then the returning officer will arrange with the form, which is available on our website or we can voter to go at a predetermined time to help them cast mail a form to them. They also have to provide us their ballot. with ID in support of their application, so a The check which has happened is if the person photocopy of their driver's licence or any other two says, sorry, I'm away, I'm shopping right now in pieces of ID. They also have to sign a declaration the mall, they're–they may not be accepted as a that they are eligible voters. homebound voter because if you're out in the mall, Mr. Gerrard: Now, do you do any checks once you can probably vote on advance or election day. somebody has registered, because if they register Mr. Gerrard: Yes, just a little bit more clarification now for several months ahead of time, you know, on this: Is that application form also available online, somebody might move or something might happen? and what is the earliest that somebody could fill it Something–somebody might pass away. What's the? out and submit it? Ms. Verma: So, if they register right now, we do Ms. Verma: I believe that form is available on our check with them. If they were doing it in October, website, but I'd like to confirm it. And I can let you they have to be six months resident by April 19th. So know about that. The earliest they can apply is once we were checking what will be your residency. If enumeration begins. you'll be leaving on 1st of October and you're not back 'til April 19th, then you're no longer considered Mr. Gerrard: At the moment, Elections Manitoba is to be resident for election purposes. It will be more doing training or learning for people on aspects than six months' period. Once the applications are related to elections finance. The–first of all, just a sent back to the returning officers, they check if the quick outline of the areas where you're providing person was on the voters list or they'll have to add training, and (b) where access to the dates would be them onto the voters list. For deceased, that is available. something–it doesn't come directly to our attention Ms. Verma: The information sessions that we are unless a relative or another person will bring it to our providing, those dates are available on our website. attention that this person is no longer alive. We don't You can register through our website. We also advise get that information from Vital Statistics with the– all the parties about the upcoming sessions. So we who are the deceased people in the past six to eight have a new schedule starting from January which months. will be in effect. Usually, we have two to three Mr. Gerrard: Now, for an individual, say, an sessions every month. We try to do one in the individual with a disability who is homebound and evening and one on the weekend. wants to have the ability to vote without having to go to a voting station, what is the process there, and * (15:20) when can somebody register for that? The areas which are covered in this information Ms. Verma: Homebound voting is an option session are the role and responsibility of an official which is available under our legislation. So agent, the key campaign finance concepts. We most common cases for homebound voting–our also talk about common issues from the previous enumerator goes to every residence. They carry a elections, which are what errors that we find on homebound application along with them. If any the election returns. We also talk about the voter expresses the desire to be–to have the voting record-keeping disk and the filing disk which we option for homebound voting, they can complete the provide. 36 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 16, 2015

We also discuss the different material which is province-wide voters list which is available at the provided to each official agent. When an official 300 locations. So they have to provide the list of all agent is appointed, a kit is provided to them. It the non-resident voters to the head office. So, after includes the legislation, manuals and guides, also all 8 o'clock, we get the list of all non-resident voters the necessary forms they will require as an official from across the province. We have a system where agent. And also, it includes a record-keeping tool and we will put all the names together, classify them a filing disk for preparing the financial return. as per their home electoral division, send that information overnight to all the 57 returning officers. The candidates are also provided some Before 8 o'clock, other than updating the list for information on the key dates and the forms required the resident voters, they will have a list of the under Election Financing Act. The candidates are non-resident voters of people who have voted outside also provided a kit under The Elections Act which their division, and the returning officer is required to includes maps, index, nomination forms and other update all the voters lists. forms which they may–might require like scrutineer information. So, within 24 hours, the names are updated on all the voters lists. It does account for long hours, Mr. Gerrard: Yes, on the advance polls, is it because depending upon division, some divisions accurate that wherever the advance poll is a person have a high volume of non-resident voters. So a can vote not just in their own district but in returning officer's day usually starts by 6 or 6:30 and anywhere–at any advanced poll? ends by 10 o'clock every night. At the head office, Ms. Verma: Yes, all advance voting locations, you we also start at almost the same time, but we end can vote either as a resident voter or as a non- almost by midnight, at least, in order to ensure all resident voter. this information is put together, is verified internally, then sent out to all the 57 divisions overnight. And–just got it confirmed, that homebound application is not on the website, but it's a good Mr. Gerrard: And thank you for your thoroughness suggestion and we'll try to put this form on the in doing this and making sure we really have a strong website. democracy here. I think that's really important, and thank you for looking to put the application for Mr. Gerrard: And just to come back to this advance homebound voters online. poll voting, just to understand the checks that you do to make sure that somebody doesn't advance vote in Mr. Chair, those are my questions. Thank you. more than one location. If, as an example, they were living in Winnipeg and then voted in Flin Flon or Mr. Chairperson: Thank you, Dr. Gerrard. something like that, all right? I'm sure you must have some sort of internal checks, but maybe you can just Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Mineral talk about that. Resources): It appears to me we're close to winding up. We are–I want to, on behalf of all the committee Ms. Verma: To give a bit of a background, advance members, really express gratitude to the Chief voting is for eight continuous days. It starts on a Electoral Officer and her officials. It's very, very Saturday, ends on a Saturday; it's from 8 a.m. to impressive work. I don't know any jurisdiction that 8 p.m. When you're a voting resident, then the works as hard, probably, to get out as many voters. I resident voters list is available at all the resident recall from the last meeting that 93 per cent of locations for that electoral division. So the name is Manitobans are caught in our enumeration list, and struck off when you vote as a resident voter in real we're even going further, with the assistance of all time. the parties, to go to a permanent voters list. That list of voters is provided to the returning I genuinely am very, very–I think we all want officer and through the returning officer to us too. to thank you for the excellent work that you do The returning officer will ensure that all the voting and the efficient way that you've brought better books–all the voters lists at the end of the day are democracy to Manitoba and to thank you for the updated, or first thing in the morning before the polls work that you've done internationally, which we've open at 8 o'clock. talked about before, and assist in internationally, Now non-resident voters–that follows a different which many of us, all of us, are interested in as well. system. Non-resident voters, there is not a So just a big thank-you and well done from– December 16, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 37

Mr. Chairperson: Do you wish to respond, Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the Ms. Verma? year ending December 31, 2013–pass. Shall the Annual Report of Elections Manitoba Ms. Verma: Very humble–thank you. I think I have for the year ending December 31, 2014 including the a great team which supports me and the office in all conduct of the 2014 Arthur-Virden and Morris this process, and they are really looking forward to by-elections pass? the next election. And we are appreciative of the amendments which just went through, giving us the An Honourable Member: Pass. ability to collect gender and date of birth. So thank An Honourable Member: No. you very much. Mr. Chairperson: I hear a no. The report is not Mr. Chairperson: Hearing no further questions, I passed. will now put the questions on each report. Before we rise, it would be appreciated if Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for the members would leave behind any unused copies of year ending December 31, 2011 including the the report so it may be collected and reused at the conduct of the 40th Provincial General Election next meeting. October 4, 2011–pass. The hour being 3:29 in the afternoon, what is the Annual Report of Elections Manitoba for will of the committee? the year ending December 31, 2012 including An Honourable Member: Committee rise. the conduct of the Fort Whyte by-election September 4, 2012–pass. Mr. Chairperson: Committee rise. Thank you very much. Permanent Voters List Study, report dated June 2013–pass. COMMITTEE ROSE AT: 3:29 p.m.

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