1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Transcript of Meeting of

9 Pesticide Program Dialogue Committee 10 Sheraton Crystal City Hotel 11 1800 Jefferson Davis Highway 12 Arlington, Virginia 13 April 16-17, 2003

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 2 1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS

2 Jim Jones Director, Office of Pesticide 3 Programs, OPPTS, Chairperson 4 Stephen L. Johnson Assistant Administrator, Office 5 of Prevention, Pesticides and 6 Toxic Substances 7 Margie Fehrenbach Designated Federal Officer, OPP 8 Daniel Botts Director, Environmental & Pest 9 Management, Florida Fruit & 10 Vegetable Association

11 Robert Rosenberg Director, Government Affairs, 12 National Pest Management 13 Association, Inc.

14 Bill Tracy National Cotton Council of 15 America

16 Carolyn Brickey Executive Director, Institute 17 for Environment and Agriculture 18 Adam Goldberg Consumers Union 19 Kristina Thayer Environmental Working Group 20 Dr. Richard Liroff World Wildlife Fund 21 Aaron Coangelo Natural Resources Defense 22 Council

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 3 1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS (cont'd)

2 Patti Bright Environmental Defense 3 Edward Zuroweste, M.D. Medical Director, Migrant 4 Clinician Network 5 Shelley Davis United Farmworkers of America 6 Troy Seidle People for the Ethical Treatment 7 of Animals 8 Dr. Beth Carroll Stewardship Manager for Food, 9 Feed and Fiber, Syngenta

10 Allen James Responsible Industry for a Sound 11 Environment

12 Stephen Kellner Consumer Specialty Products 13 Association

14 William McCormick Project Manager, The Clorox 15 Company

16 Dr. Hasmukh Sauers Manager, Biocides Panel, 17 American Chemistry Council 18 Julie Spagnoli Director, Federal Regulatory 19 Affairs, Bayer

20 Dr. Warren Stickle President, Chemical Producers & 21 Distributors Association

22 Jay Vroom CropLife America

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 4 1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS (cont'd)

2 Gary Libman Director, Regulatory Affairs and 3 Quality Assurance, Emerald 4 BioAgriculture Corporation 5 Alan Lockwood, M.D. Chair, Environmental Committee, 6 Physicians for Social 7 Responsibility 8 Dr. Nancy Lewis Associate Professor, Department 9 of Nutritional Science and 10 Dietetics, University of 11 Nebraska

12 Phil Benedict Director, Plant Industry, 13 Vermont Department of 14 Agriculture

15 Charlie Clark Environmental Administrator, 16 Pesticide Registration Section, 17 Bureau of Pesticides, Department 18 of Ag and Consumer Services

19 Dr. Jose Amador Director, Agriculture Research & 20 Extension Center, Texas A&M

21 Larry Elworth Executive Director, Center for 22 Agricultural Partnerships

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 5 1 COMMITTEE MEMBERS (cont'd)

2 Winand Hock, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Plant 3 Pathology, Penn State Pesticide 4 Education Program 5 Dr. Robert Holm Executive Director, IR-4 Project 6 John Vickery Principal, John Vickery 7 Consulting 8 Patrick Quinn Principal, The Accord Group 9 Dr. Michael Kashtook Office of Plant and Dairy Foods 10 and Beverages, FDA

11 Allen Jennings Director, Office of Pest 12 Management, USDA

13 Dr. Gary Clark National Center for Infectious 14 Diseases, Centers for Disease 15 Control & Prevention

16 Dr. Melody Kawamoto National Institute for 17 Occupational Safety and Health, 18 Centers for Disease Control & 19 Prevention

20 Brad Bergen Section Head, Formulants, PMRA 21 22

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 1 1 Day One 2 April 16, 2003 3 PROCEEDINGS 4 - - - - -

5 MR. JONES: Why don't we get started. I think 6 being on time is important. We all want a timely 7 government, we should all be prepared to be timely 8 ourselves. 9 I really appreciate everyone's efforts to come 10 to Washington. I know that this is a difficult time for 11 a number of reasons. We have a number of holidays going 12 on this week, there's spring break for a lot of our 13 children, and the nice thing it's a nice time of the year 14 to be in Washington, but understand that it's a 15 challenging time for many of you to be here and 16 appreciate the effort and can understand why some of our 17 members weren't able to make it. 18 When planning for this meeting, we had the good 19 fortune -- it's really the reason we are in this hotel on 20 these dates -- that an SAP meeting had been scheduled 21 previously and didn't need to occur. And, so, the agency 22 had already paid for the space and we took advantage of

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 2 1 that. As I know all of you expect us to be frugal with 2 your tax-paying dollars. 3 The bad news, other than the conflict with 4 holidays and spring breaks and whatnot, is that the SAP - 5 - in our SAPs we generally do not accommodate with coffee 6 and any other refreshments, and so we have to live with 7 that arrangement and couldn't change it at the last 8 minute. So, we don't have complimentary coffee, and I 9 apologize for that. The restaurant downstairs, however, 10 will accommodate take-out and you folks really need to 11 get that fixed -- the Sheraton's restaurant is able to 12 accommodate you. 13 I did want to recognize that because we actually 14 have two new members to our PPDC. I'm not sure if either 15 of them are here -- Christina Thayer from the 16 Environmental Working Group has replaced Sean Gray. 17 Christina is not here yet, is she? And Rich Liroff, who 18 I also believe isn't here yet -- oh, yes, there he is -- 19 hey, Rich -- from the World Wildlife Federation has 20 replaced Sarah Lynch.

21 They are permanent -- I use that word loosely -- 22 new members to the work group. None of us are permanent.

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 3 1 These are two-year appointments. And all of us who are 2 here are on two-year appointments. I'm unclear how long 3 my appointment's going to last. 4 (Laughter.)

5 MR. JONES: There are also a number of 6 individuals around the table who are sitting in for a 7 permanent member, and when we go around, after 8 introductory remarks, if you can just introduce not only 9 yourself but who you are sitting in for, I would 10 appreciate that. 11 As many of you know, sort of segueing into 12 change, transition, we have a number of -- there have 13 been a number of new personnel changes or personnel 14 changes in the Pesticide Program since we last got 15 together. I think, probably, most obvious is the one 16 that affects me, that Marcia Mulkey, the director for the 17 previous five years, has left the Pesticide Program. She 18 is now on an employment detail to the FAO in Rome and 19 she'll follow that with a, what we refer to in the 20 government as an IPA, an Inter-governmental Personnel 21 Act, assignments to Temple University as a visiting 22 scholar. Actually, Marcia has been very good about not,

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 4 1 you know, giving me too much advice over the last three 2 weeks. She e-mailed me this morning with a very funny 3 anecdote that I thought I would share. 4 She's putting together a kind of a best 5 practices or a code of conduct for pesticide use. It's 6 actually been drafted. She's sort of doing some 7 editorial work around it. And she said one of the things 8 she found in some of her research was it was advice to 9 people doing water monitoring in Africa, and after it 10 gave sort of some technical things you need to be 11 focusing on about how to take the samples and things like 12 that -- and be very careful about crocodiles and 13 alligators. 14 (Laughter.)

15 MR. JONES: And, so, I said, well -- and then 16 she follows, Generally just good advice for the Office of 17 Pesticide Program Office Director. 18 (Laughter.)

19 MR. JONES: And then I e-mailed back quickly and 20 I mentioned PPDC meeting, and she responded and said, 21 That was one of the most favorite things I did and I know 22 you're going to love it, too.

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 5 1 But, I thought I would pass that along from 2 Marcia. I am now the Director of the Office of Pesticide 3 Programs and I'm very excited and thrilled about the 4 opportunity, at large, of being the Director of the 5 Pesticides Program. I think it's one of the most 6 interesting, compelling and important public service jobs 7 there is in the Agency, and I'm pleased and proud to have 8 this opportunity. 9 Likewise, I'm very excited about having an 10 opportunity to chair the Pesticide Program Dialogue 11 Committee. I think that the Agency has been a leader and 12 OPP has been a leader in trying to bring stakeholders 13 together, to understand the concerns and the issues of 14 stakeholders to be aggressive about getting stakeholder 15 input into what we do in the Office of Pesticide Programs 16 and EPA at large, and it's very rewarding for me to have 17 such a leadership role in an organization that listens to 18 its stakeholders and provides stakeholders an opportunity 19 to give feedback and advice.

20 The other changes, which some of them may be 21 just a little more new to you because the individual is 22 new to you, but at my right is Marty Monell, who is the

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 6 1 new Deputy Director for Management in the Office of 2 Pesticide Programs; Joe Marenda (phonetic) held that 3 position previously, and, I think, as most of you know, 4 Joe took a mobility assignment where he's going through a 5 Senior Executive Service Mobility exercise at the Agency 6 to our Office of Science Coordination and Policy; and 7 Marty comes to us from the Grants Division within the 8 EPA. So, we're very pleased to have Marty. She's going 9 to be giving a presentation this morning. She had the 10 great opportunity to oversee the operating plan for us in 11 FY-03, and helping to sort through some very challenging 12 and difficult budget cuts. I'm sure she's thrilled with 13 the opportunity to help figure out how to deal with a 14 smaller budget this year than we had last year. She did 15 a great job and we're going to go over some of that this 16 morning, as well. 17 And to Marty's right, actually one of the so-far 18 highlights of my job as the Director -- the first day on 19 the job I had the great opportunity -- it was Marcia's 20 selection, I have to say, but I'm behind it 100 percent -

21 - Debbie Edwards has now been named as the Director of 22 the Registration Division, which is very exciting for all

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 7 1 of us and I hope for Debbie, as well. Debbie will also 2 be participating over the course of the next day and a 3 half. 4 And, I think, all of you know -- or you all 5 should know -- Anne Lindsay, who is sitting at my left. 6 Anne is acting in the position that I held for the last 7 year and a half as the Deputy Director for Programs. 8 And, Anne is also going to have a leadership role, not 9 only in the program management in OPP in the months 10 ahead, but a role in the management of this meeting, as 11 well. 12 We have a new organization chart with all of 13 these names in them in your packet to sort of help you 14 navigate our organization. 15 We have a full agenda and I want to spend a 16 minute or two sort of going over the agenda, not so much 17 to say what is on it, because I assume you all have 18 looked at it, but to describe some of the thinking that 19 went into the building of this agenda.

20 There are three basic ways in which we try to 21 use this meeting to get feedback. Some of it is by 22 giving you updates on some of the most interesting,

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 8 1 controversial, compelling work that we've doing, and we 2 call those Updates. We used to call them Updates in a 3 Minute, but we realized we couldn't explain some of these 4 things in one minute, so we just call them Updates now. 5 They are largely us informing you about some of 6 these kinds of ideas. And you'll see those spread 7 throughout the day and a half. Hopefully, in each of 8 those sessions we'll have time to get some feedback on 9 these Updates, as well. But they're designed less to be 10 as interactive as the other two types of interactions. 11 The second kind of session that we have, in a 12 couple of different places, including the first session 13 this morning, is what I sort of think is our way -- the 14 Agency's way -- of trying to be accountable to the PPDC 15 around topics that we've talked about in-depth 16 previously. Now this one is getting a little trickier to 17 manage, because over time the list of things that we have 18 engaged you in, in a meaningful way, is getting longer 19 and longer, and figuring out how to use our time wisely 20 here to be responsive, accountable around those issues is 21 getting trickier, and we may want to spend some time at 22 the end of the meeting tomorrow talking about your

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 9 1 thoughts about how we can manage that. 2 There are a couple of places on the agenda where 3 we've had hour, two hour, three hour or dialogues around 4 a topic, and we're coming back now and saying here is 5 what we've done since that last session. 6 So, that's sort of the second basic way in which 7 we are trying to get feedback from all of you, so that we 8 just don't talk about something in a meeting for two or 9 three hours, get a lot of feedback and then just walk 10 away from it and never come back and describe what's 11 happened or how did we use the feedback we've gotten. 12 The third way is basically to put a new -- use 13 that word loosely -- new to the PPDC -- new on the PPDC 14 agenda a couple of topics where we're in development of 15 an issue and we're asking for some advice and guidance 16 about how we're working through the issue. And the two 17 big topics in that category today are Mosquito Labeling - 18 - Mosquito Labeling, as most of you know, in and of 19 itself, is not a new topic, but our engagement with this 20 group is new on this issue, inasmuch in-depth as we're 21 going to be doing today.

22 And the second one being Registration Review,

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 10 1 which is a new requirement -- getting less and less new - 2 - a requirement under FQPA that we pursue sort of a 3 continuous review of pesticide registrations on kind of a 4 15-year schedule, and we really need to get moving on 5 this program, and we're coming today with our thoughts, 6 following an AMPRM that we did a couple of years back and 7 we're looking for advice, not only about content, but on 8 process. 9 These are the three ways that we try to use that 10 agenda. And we've heard from you clearly over the last 11 few years, this is a meeting that you're looking for us 12 to use where we need advice, and we're trying to use the 13 agenda in that way. We very much do own the agenda in 14 the sense that these are the areas we're looking for 15 advice. We also recognize that there is some need to get 16 some information out in an accessible way to all of you. 17 The session at the end of the meeting, I really 18 do want people to be thinking about over the next day and 19 a half where we're asking for topics for the next 20 session. I don't at all mean to say then you tell us 21 what you want to talk about, but I think it's helpful to 22 get a sense as to what you think are the most important

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 11 1 things to talk about and then we can figure out are they 2 areas where we really need input. 3 That's a very sort of overview of the agenda 4 without actually going over each item to try to give you 5 a sense of what we're trying to achieve here. 6 Sort of an administrative reminder that the PPDC 7 charter will expire in November; we are planning on 8 renewing it as we really do firmly believe in this as a 9 way of getting meaningful advice from our stakeholders 10 and just part of that, some subset of you, your term will 11 expire and we will, over the course of the next several 12 months, do what we've done over the last six years, which 13 is some subset of the expiring membership coming right 14 back and some subset not to bring in new blood. It's 15 usually been very simple, because some people raise their 16 hands to not be renewed because they feel like they've 17 served long enough or forever reason. It tends to be 18 along the lines of who really is up for another term and 19 who's not. We do need to make sure we keep in balance, 20 so that's one of the over-arching decision-making factors 21 that we're using.

22 As another reminder for those in the audience

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 12 1 who are not on the PPC, we do have built into our agenda 2 some time for public comment and at the appropriate time 3 we have some microphones. And if you do at any point 4 during the day -- today or tomorrow -- want to make 5 public comment, if you would just let Margie Fehrenbach - 6 - sitting right over here -- know and we'll make sure 7 that we have enough time for public comment. 8 With that, I would like to turn it over to Al 9 Jennings from USDA, who is also going to make some 10 opening remarks. 11 MR. JENNINGS: Okay, thanks, Jim. I will be 12 very brief. First of all, Jim, I'm very happy to hear 13 the explanation for the lack of coffee. I was worried 14 that it might be a reflection of the regime change in 15 OPP, so glad to hear you didn't make the radical change. 16 (Laughter.)

17 MR. JENNINGS: No, seriously, in thinking back 18 over the initial years and the first six years of FQPA 19 implementation, it's fair to say that the USDA/EPA 20 cooperation has been there in one form or another and 21 we've been through some difficult times and I think, in 22 reality, if you look back, we've resolved some very

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 13 1 contentious issues, and we've worked out a number of 2 kinks in the whole regulatory process and in 3 communication process, so I think we've done a lot but we 4 still have a lot to do, and I really do look forward to 5 continuing that positive working relationship with Jim 6 and the new teams. I enter this with a very positive 7 attitude. I think we've done a lot of good things and 8 look forward to more. 9 Certainly this committee and your role here and 10 my role as a USDA observer or whatever I am, I do enjoy 11 hearing your perspective on a lot of these issues. It 12 certainly does help round out the perspectives that we do 13 get in the Department. So, I appreciate your continuing 14 input and, I guess, there's just one other item to 15 mention and one of my roles in USDA has been to try to 16 get the information and data resources in the Department 17 focused and refined and put into a usable format for EPA 18 to use in risk assessments, risk mitigation, those sorts 19 of things. And certainly that effort will continue.

20 One of the real positive things that's happening 21 right now is the merging together of our land grant 22 resources and what used to be the Integrated Pest

For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 14 1 Management Centers and, then, there used to be the PIAP 2 or Pesticide Impact Assessment Program Centers. And we 3 will very shortly with a new set of proposals, fully 4 merge those into what we'll now call IPM Centers. So, I 5 think, that is going to go a long way with getting more 6 bang for the existing bucks that are out there with our 7 land grant systems. 8 So, anyhow, the role of providing data 9 information, a sounding board, impacts on agriculture 10 will continue and I think it will become a little bit 11 better in the future. So, with that, I will send it back 12 to Jim. 13 MR. JONES: Thank you, Al. Now, why don't we go 14 around the room and if everyone would just introduce 15 themselves and their affiliation. 16 MS. LINDSAY: Well, I'm Anne Lindsay and I'm the 17 Acting Deputy Director for Programs in the Office of 18 Pesticide Programs.

19 MR. JENNINGS: And I'm Al Jennings, I'm the 20 Director of Pest Managemen