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Da´Il E´Ireann Vol. 641 Wednesday, No. 4 14 November 2007 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 14 November 2007. Leaders’ Questions ………………………………1029 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach …………………………………1036 Request to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 32 ………………1050 Order of Business ………………………………1051 Ministerial Rota: Motion ……………………………1063 Select Committee on Foreign Affairs: Motion ……………………1064 Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security: Motion ………………1064 Joint Administration Committee: Motion ………………………1064 Membership of Committees: Motion …………………………1067 Regional Fisheries Boards: Motion …………………………1067 Local Government (Roads Functions) Bill 2007: Second Stage (resumed)……………1068 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Priority Questions ……………………………1083 Other Questions ……………………………1096 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1108 Local Government (Roads Functions) Bill 2007: Second Stage (resumed)……………………………1110 Committee and Remaining Stages ………………………1121 Transport 21: Statements ……………………………1130 Visit of Uruguayan Delegation …………………………1146 Transport 21: Statements (resumed) …………………………1146 Private Members’ Business Child Care: Motion (resumed) …………………………1163 Adjournment Debate Health Services ………………………………1197 State Airports ………………………………1200 Services for People with Disabilities ………………………1202 Fire Services ………………………………1206 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1209 1029 1030 DA´ IL E´ IREANN Deputy James Bannon: Will the Taoiseach tell that to the people of Longford-Westmeath? ———— Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The Taoiseach De´ Ce´adaoin, 14 Samhain 2007. should take his head out of the sand. Wednesday, 14 November 2007. An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to ———— continue without interruption. Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar The Taoiseach: The people of Westmeath and 10.30 a.m. every other county acknowledge the improve- ments in the health service while understanding ———— the difficulties. I do not understand the question asked by Deputy Kenny. Paidir. Prayer. Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The Taoiseach is making trouble for himself by not answering the ———— question. The Taoiseach: He says he is in favour of the Leaders’ Questions. reform programme, that he wants the discussions Deputy Enda Kenny: Since the general elec- and negotiations with the consultants and the tion, we have seen the true value of Fianna Fa´il non-consultant hospital doctors concluded and policies, with hospital wards closed, operations that he wants to see us move towards imple- cancelled, home help hours cut back, children’s menting reduced working hours for nurses. We dental services cancelled, suicide prevention want to see the paramedical talks resumed, to training cancelled and a ban on recruitment that conclude the agreement with pharmacists and to has directly hit frontline services in the health improve the hospital development programme. area. However, there is one area in the health We want to do all these things with fewer staff. sector that has seen no recruitment ban and that is the Office of the Minister for Health and Chil- Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Nothing has been dren. Since 2002, the cost of special advisers to done. the Minister has risen from \206,000 to \666,000. Deputy Seymour Crawford: Nobody can agree Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: It is sinful. on anything. Deputy Enda Kenny: Will the Taoiseach The Taoiseach: We either want the Minister for Health and Children to be given an opportunity explain why this is so in the midst of the shambles \ over which he and the Minister for Health and to obtain best value for money within the 15 Children preside? How can he justify the value billion budget and with a staff of 120,000, and to for money this represents given what is falling reform the health system as we have been talking down around us? about, or we do not. Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: Will the Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: People cannot Taoiseach answer the question? get four hours of home help. The Taoiseach: As we know, when Deputy The Taoiseach: Deputy Kenny continues in his Kenny last saw the inside of a Department there attempt to attack the health service. were 55 advisers assigned to the various Depart- ments whereas now there are only 34. Deputy Brian Cowen: He continues whining. Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: Where did the Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: Will the Taoiseach get that figure? Taoiseach answer the question? Deputy Enda Kenny: As with many other The Taoiseach: I will answer the question. issues, the Taoiseach either does not understand or does not want to understand. I will ask the Deputy Alan Shatter: It is a case of Govern- question again. Does an increase from \206,000 ment and managerial incompetence. to \666,000 in the cost of special advisers in the Minister for Health and Children’s office rep- The Taoiseach: It is regrettable that the enor- resent good value? If the Taoiseach did not mous amount of good service, work in the com- understand the question the first time, I hope he munity and all the other activities being carried does the second time. The Government calls to out by the HSE are continually attacked in this mind something Ronald Reagan said — it is like House. a baby’s alimentary canal in that it has a huge 1031 Leaders’ 14 November 2007. Questions 1032 [Deputy Enda Kenny.] The Taoiseach: Those in the HSE are working appetite at one end and no responsibility at the to bring in the reforms that are necessary. I do other. not accept this ongoing attack on the health service in which more than 1 million people a Deputy Alan Shatter: It is time we got to the year are receiving treatment. Hospitals are doing bottom of it. their best and we are spending \500 million a year on the capital programme. In many cases, includ- Deputy Enda Kenny: There is bureaucratic ing in respect of maternity and children’s cardiac bungling. Ministers can wipe their hands of that surgery, figures are never quoted in this House until they have to explain to somebody why an because people just look through reports, as we operation is cancelled, dental treatment is can- saw yesterday, find the negative and attack the celled, suicide prevention training is cancelled or service. The health service is staffed by highly it is not possible to obtain four hours of home competent people doing their jobs in a highly help. The Taoiseach has admitted to me in this competent way. We should be proud of them House that there is a bureaucratic bulge in the instead of always ridiculing them. administrative section of the HSE. The Govern- ment recognises that it went the wrong way in Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: Does that setting up a structure that is overmanned and include the Minister? over-managed. I will ask the question again. Does The Taoiseach: I am the first to admit where the Taoiseach consider that the increase in costs there are problems, difficulties and shortfalls and to \666,000 in the Minister for Health and Chil- that we must set about addressing those. dren’s office represents good value? When will the Government start practising Deputy Alan Shatter: The Taoiseach has had what it preaches? The Taoiseach preaches pay ten years to do so. restraint but he is by far and away the highest paid world leader. He does not have a White The Taoiseach: Do Opposition Members House, he does not have the yachts, he does not expect that the Minister for Health and Children have the aeroplanes—— and other Ministers can sit in their Departments with no staff and properly manage a budget of Deputy E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Is that what Deputy \52 billion? That is not possible. This Govern- Kenny wants? ment is committed to getting the best possible return on all the resources—— Deputy Enda Kenny: ——but he represents 4 million people as against 200 million in some Deputy Bernard Allen: What about staff? cases and 80 million or 50 million in others. When will he practise the pay restraint that he The Taoiseach: ——-to ensure taxpayers’ preaches? money is used efficiently and effectively to give the very best service that we can. Deputies: Hear, hear. Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: Does the Deputy Enda Kenny: When will we see value Taoiseach think that is happening? for money in the \4 million that is now allocated to special advisers for Ministers whose salaries The Taoiseach: Where we are seeking reform are on a range from \250,000 to \270,000 and to do that, I would very much like if on some day \318,000 in the Taoiseach’s case? of the year, for one minute, we would get some support to give a better service to the public, The Taoiseach: I answered the Deputy’s ques- rather than the usual diatribe from the tion. The staff working for the Minister for Opposition. Health and Children are working to their full Deputy Michael Ring: Professor Brendan capacity and to the best of their ability—— Drumm is the real Minister for Health and Children. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: That is even worse. Deputy Alan Shatter: The Government should Deputy Brian Hayes: I would hate to see where be carrying out reform rather than talking about we would be if they were not working to their it. full capacity. Deputy Joan Burton: I will move to a different The Taoiseach: ——and are doing an excellent issue. I congratulate the Taoiseach and his Mini- job in helping the Minister to make the necessary sters on arriving to work in the Da´il today clean reforms in the Department. and dry at a time when thousands of Dubliners are out there walking through the rain to work. Deputy Seymour Crawford: They are closing Some years ago, at the beginning of November hospital wards. 2005, there was an extraordinary Government 1033 Leaders’ 14 November 2007.
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