Summary of the 27Th Plenary Session, October 2003
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BRITISH-IRISH INTER- PARLIAMENTARY BODY COMHLACHT IDIR- PHARLAIMINTEACH NA BREATAINE AGUS NA hÉIREANN _________________________ TWENTY-SEVENTH PLENARY CONFERENCE 20 and 21 OCTOBER 2003 Hanbury Manor Hotel & Country Club, Ware, Hertfordshire _______________________ OFFICIAL REPORT (Final Revised Edition) (Produced by the British-Irish Parliamentary Reporting Association) Any queries should be sent to: The Editor The British-Irish Parliamentary Reporting Association Room 248 Parliament Buildings Stormont Belfast BT4 3XX Tel: 028 90521135 e-mail [email protected] IN ATTENDANCE Co-Chairmen Mr Brendan Smith TD Mr David Winnick MP Members and Associate Members Mr Harry Barnes MP Mr Séamus Kirk TD Senator Paul Bradford Senator Terry Le Sueur Mr Johnny Brady TD Dr Dai Lloyd AM Rt Hon the Lord Brooke Rt Hon Andrew Mackay MP of Sutton Mandeville CH Mr Andrew Mackinlay MP Mr Alistair Carmichael MP Dr John Marek AM Senator Paul Coughlan Mr Michael Mates MP Dr Jerry Cowley TD Rt Hon Sir Brian Mawhinney MP Mr Seymour Crawford TD Mr Kevin McNamara MP Dr Jimmy Devins TD Mr David Melding AM The Lord Dubs Senator Paschal Mooney Ms Helen Eadie MSP Mr Arthur Morgan TD Mr John Ellis TD Mr Alasdair Morrison MSP Mr Jeff Ennis MP Senator Francie O’Brien Ms Margaret Ewing MSP Mr William O’Brien MP Mr Paul Flynn MP Mr Donald J Gelling CBE MLC Ms Liz O’Donnell TD Mr Mike German AM Mr Ned O’Keeffe TD Mr Jim Glennon TD Mr Jim O’Keeffe TD The Lord Glentoran CBE DL Senator Ann Ormonde Mr Dominic Grieve MP Mr Séamus Pattison TD Mr John Griffiths AM Senator Brendan Ryan Baroness Harris of Richmond Mr Joe Sherlock TD Senator Brian Hayes Mr Iain Smith MSP Ms Helen Jackson MP The Lord Temple-Morris Ms Cecilia Keaveney TD Deputy Michael Torode Mr Tony Killeen TD Mr Murray Tosh MSP STEERING COMMITTEE Co-Chairmen Mr David Winnick MP Mr Brendan Smith TD Members Mr Kevin McNamara MP Mr Séamus Kirk TD Mr Michael Mates MP Mr Jim O’Keeffe TD OFFICIALS Joint Clerks Ms Alda Barry, British Clerk Mr Jim Mulkerrins, Irish Clerk Secretary to the Body Mr Colm McGrady Delegation Clerks Scotland – Mr Craig French Wales – Mr Peter Kellam Committee Clerks to the Body Committee A: Sovereign Matters Mr Colm McGrady Mr Huw Yardley Committee B: European Affairs Mr Mike Clark Mr David Keating Committee C: Economic Mr Colm McGrady Mr John Whatley Committee D: Environmental and Social Dr Christopher Johnson Mr David Keating Secretariat Mrs Veronica Carr Miss Amanda Hay Brigadier John Oborne OBE Media Adviser Mr Mike Burns British-Irish Parliamentary Reporting Association Reporting team for 27th Plenary Meeting Mr William Humphries-Jones Mr Patrick Marsh Mr David Moane Mr Jon Prawer Ms Sian Richards Ms Doreen Thompson BRITISH-IRISH ADOPTION OF PROPOSED INTER-PARLIAMENTARY PROGRAMME OF BUSINESS BODY The Co-Chairman (Mr David Winnick MP): Members will have received a copy of the provisional Programme of Business. Members will also have heard last night’s COMHLACHT news about the UK Prime Minister and have read about IDIR-PHARLAIMINTEACH it in today’s newspapers. I wish to give notice of a NA BREATAINE AGUS NA motion that Members of the Steering Committee have agreed should be moved before the proposed first item HÉIREANN of business. The wording of the proposed motion is as follows: “That this Body is very sorry to hear of Tony TWENTY-SEVENTH PLENARY Blair’s ill health; recognises the immense contribution CONFERENCE which the Prime Minister of the UK has made to try to bring about a lasting peaceful solution in Northern Ireland as well as establishing a close working relationship between Monday 20 October 2003 our two countries; and wishes him a full recovery.” Does the Body agree that the motion be included in The Body met at 9.35 am. the Programme of Business? Members indicated assent. PLENARY BUSINESS The Co-Chairman (Mr David Winnick MP): I call on Kevin McNamara MP formally to move the Programme The Co-Chairman (Mr David Winnick MP): Welcome of Business as amended. to the twenty-seventh plenary session of the Body. We are in public session, and I wish to make one or two Mr Kevin McNamara MP: I so move. preliminary statements. I ask all those present please to Programme of Business, as amended, agreed. ensure that pagers, bleepers, mobile phones and other such technology are turned off, and I ask Members not to read newspapers because that would not be acceptable in Parliament, the Dáil or the Senate. I remind Members that the proceedings of the Body do not attract RECENT ILL HEALTH OF THE parliamentary privilege. UNITED KINGDOM PRIME MINISTER Since the last plenary meeting of the Body, new Members have been nominated by their respective Mr Michael Mates MP: I beg to move institutions. From the United Kingdom, Baroness Harris That this Body is very sorry to hear of Tony Blair’s ill health; of Richmond has been nominated as an Associate Member. recognises the immense contribution which the Prime Minister of The Scottish Parliament has nominated Murray Tosh the UK has made to try to bring about a lasting peaceful solution in MSP, Margaret Ewing MSP, David McLetchie MSP, Northern Ireland as well as establishing a close working relationship Alasdair Morrison MSP and Iain Smith MSP. The Scottish between our two countries and wishes him a full recovery. alternate Members are Bruce Crawford MSP, Helen I am sure that the motion will have unanimous approval. Eadie MSP, Robin Harper MSP and Michael McMahon MSP. The National Assembly for Wales has nominated The Co-Chairman (Mr David Winnick MP): Iam Michael German AM, John Griffiths AM, Dai Lloyd AM, sorry to interrupt. I should have said that in order to speak, John Marek AM and David Melding AM. The alternate one should press the green button, and a red light will go Welsh Members are Glyn Davies AM, Eleanor Burnham on. After speaking, press the green button again, and the red AM and Brian Gibbons AM. light will go off. I hope that that is understood. It is rather important. In accordance with rule 2(a), the following Associate Members have accepted the invitation of the Steering Mr Michael Mates MP: That is exactly what I did, Committee to assume the powers and responsibilities of and the red light is on. I am sure that everyone will agree Members for the session: Paul Flynn MP, Dominic Grieve to the motion and wish our Prime Minister well. He has MP, Baroness Harris of Richmond, Senator Paul Coghlan, put his imprimatur on all progress that has been made, as Senator Anne Ormonde and Mr Ned O’Keeffe TD. I did his predecessor, John Major, which Tony Blair also inform Members that at the conclusion of item3—the acknowledges. The push to answer this vexing question proposed constitution for Europe — a group photograph has come from the top in both Governments, and that is will be taken at 3.30 pm. I am sure that no one would why the process has got as far as it has and will succeed. I wish to be left out of the group photograph. hope — and I am sure that everyone will agree — that 1 Monday 20 October 2003 the Prime Minister will recover quickly and be able to POLITICAL DEVELOPMENTS carry on doing his work. The Co-Chairman (Mr Brendan Smith TD): The Co-Chairman (Mr David Winnick MP): Shortly Co-Chairman and Colleagues, on behalf of the Irish we will debate the main political motion, but it would be Members, I extend our very best wishes to Prime Minister helpful if those who wish to speak would let the Table Blair for a quick return to the fullest health. We appreciate, know as quickly as possible. Normally, there is an initial and are conscious of, his commitment, dedication and reluctance to speak and then, in the last 45 minutes, ongoing efforts in the advancement of the peace process virtually everyone who has not spoken puts his hand up, in Northern Ireland. He has always shown that commitment, and time rationing of four minutes has to be introduced. regardless of the many other pressures on him as Prime If it is necessary, I, with my Co-Chairman, will impose a Minister. time limit, but we shall wait and see. I have received notice of an amendment, in Lord Glentoran’s name, to Mr Donald J Gelling MLC: As someone who is the main motion, which I shall call after the main situated in the middle of the Irish Sea and who sits on the motion has been moved. Steering Committee, I wish to comment on the work that the Prime Minister has done and, I am sure, will do in the Mr Michael Mates MP: I beg to move future. This morning’s television coverage gave us a little That the Body remains fully supportive of the Good Friday relief in that we saw that the situation is not as serious as Agreement as the only way forward for the people of Northern Ireland; perhaps we thought last night. I too wish to send the Prime recognises the political progress brought about by the peace process Minister our best wishes for an early recovery, so that he and the Good Friday Agreement, benefiting all the people of these can get back to doing the job that he does so well. islands; acknowledges the collective responsibility of all concerned, including the two Governments and the pro-agreement parties, to make The Co-Chairman (Mr David Winnick MP): There the agreement work; calls upon all parties involved to redouble their is consensus, so I do not want to prolong the debate.