2890 Land Tax llfonagernent Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Appropriation Bill. factories in country towns, and by doing so iG.egtslntiu.e READING. that they are few. The Hon. R. R. DOWNING (Attorney­ General, Minister of Justice and Vice­ Mr. McCAW: I do not eare if there .is Presiden t of the Executive Council) [4.35] : only one. I propose to worry about it, and I move: the Minister's interjection typifies the 'That this bill be now read a second time. attitude of members of this Government. The purpose of the bill is to obtain parliamentary authority for the expendi­ Mr. MURPHY: The hon. member for Lane tures that are proposed during 1956-57 from Cove is worried. about the £6,000,000. the several funds which comprise the ·state Mr. McCAW: Hon. members on this side Budget and from various other funds from which appropriations are also required. The are worried about the housing shortage, bill provides also for the appropriation of and the hon. member for Concord will not expenditures of an urgent and unforeseen deflect me from that interest. His col­ nature which were made during the :finan­ league, the Minister for Housing, said that cial year 1955-56 and which are now sub­ we are not worried about it. Is the hoJJ.. mitted for parliamentary sanction. Further member for Concord proud of him~ Does details of the estimated expenditures from the several funds referred to in the bill he join with him~ are contained in the Budget papers and Mr. MURPHY: Yes. the Financial Statement delivered by the Colonial Treasurer, which have been made Mr. McCAW: I dare say the remaining available to hon. members. I shall not ho_n. members ou the Government side join· traverse the detail in these documents, but with the hon.· member for Concord and the shall restrict my remarks to a broad outline Minister for Housing in not worrying _about of· the provisions of the bill. The various appropriations sought for 1956-57 are. as these companies on the ground that there follows: are not many of them. I am worried, even £ if there is only one, and I say that such a Consolidated Reve1fue Fund · 100,662,553 Government Railways Fund .... 74;597,000. company deserves the highest praise. Road Transport and .Traffic Fund 2,810,600 Metropolitan Transport Trust Mr. SPEAKER: Order! As it is now 10.20 · General Fund ...... ·· .... . 13,189,840 o'clock, p.m., the debate stands adjourned Newcastle and District Transport Trust General Fund ...... 1,520,640 in accordance with the sessional order Sydney Harbour Trust Fund ... . 2,258,124 adopted on 19th June, 1956. Sydney Harbour Trust Renewals Fund ...... 700,000 House adjourned at 10.20 p.m. Closer Settlement Fund ...... 71,000 Appropriation Bill. [10 OCT., 1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2891

The State's Budget comprises the Con­ An appropriation of £74,597,000 is pro­ solidated Revenue Fund and the funds of posed this year from the Government Rail­ the three major business undertakings, and ways Fund. This expenditure, together the estimated aggregate Budget result for with the estimated capital debt charges, is the year is a surplus of £36,935. The pro­ higher than that incurred last year, and posed appropriation of £100,662,553 from in the absence of action to secure additional Consolidated Revenue Fund which I have revenue, the loss on the operations of the mentioned relates only to votes requiring railways in the current year would have annual appropriation. There is, in addi­ been even greater than the deficiency for tion, expenditure especially appropriated 1955-56. As such a loss could not be sus­ under various Acts which is expected to tained, steps to obtain additional income aggregate £23,221,277 this :financial year. were unavoidable, and it was necessary to Interest and other charges· associated with increase fares and some freights as from the State's loan liability to the Common­ 1st July, 1956. It is estimated that earn­ wealth account for £17,589,385, and other ings of the railways will increase by an statutory appropriations for the remain­ amount of almost £6,000,000 as a result of ing £5,631,892. The estimated total expen­ the .action taken, and the anticipated de­ diture from Consolidated Revenue Fund ficiency on the railway services is £3,850,000. during 1956-57 is therefore £123,883,830, This is approximately one-half of the lo:>s · or £1,360,050 more than last year. This sustained last year. increase is the combined effect of increased Amounts of £13,189,840 and £1,520,640 payments aggregating £5,869,038 for depart- are to be a.ppropriated to meet the operation . mental expenditures and special appropria­ and maintenance costs of the metropolitan tions other than those related to charges and Newcastle transport services respec­ on the State's loan liability, and a decrease tively. A substantial reduction in the losses of £4,508,988 in the net amount of debt incurred on these services this year is ex­ charges borne by Consolidated Revenue pected to result from the increase in fares Fund. which took effect from 1st July la.st. It is The e..'i:planation for this decrease is that estimated that earnings will improve by it is expected that the Department of Rail­ £2,460,035 and working e-,,:penses are ex­ ways will be able this year to reimburse pected to be only £117,697 higher than last Consolidated Revenue Fund to a consider­ vear because of the introduction of further ably greater extent for debt charges in­ ~conomies in operation, including the use curred on its behalf. The difficult :financial of one-man buses. The deficiency being position left little scope for expansion of budgeted for on the services is therefore departmental services and the main in­ £1,835,000, compared with last year's de­ creases provided are for the Department f..ciency of £4,138,103. of Education and the Department of Public Health. The preparation of the State's Payments from the Sydney Harbour Budget for 1956-57 presented many diffi­ Trust Fund for administrative and general culties and it was necessary to provide for e-;:penses a.re estimated at £2,258,124. additional revenues to bridge the gap Revenue paid into this fund depends la,rgely between income and unavoidable outgoings. on the volume of trade passing through the There was a deficiency of just over port of Sydney and it has been anticipatec £6,800,000 in 1955-56 which had to be over­ that there will be some reduction this year taken and provision had also to be made as a result of action regarding import con­ for unavoidable increa.ses in expenditure trol which has been taken by the Common­ this financial year. The problem has been wealth Government. To meet this situa­ met, however, and the Budget for the tion, and to cover unavoidable increases in current financial year embodies the steps costs. certain charges were raised some time which were taken to overcome the serious ag-o, but only to an extent sufficient to meet fin~ncial situation which confronted the outgoings. The expected result on opera­ Government. tions is a small surplus of £2,226. 2892 Appropriation Bill. LCOUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill.

The remaining funds from which appro­ of the Auditor-General. It is indeed com­ priations are sought in the bill do not form prehensive, and full of matter of intense part of the aggregate Budget result. They interest to every hon. member. We are are the Road Transport and Traffic Fund, most fortunate to have as Auditor-General which is financed from motor registration an officer of such calibre, possessed of out­ fees and drivers' licence fees, the Sydney standing talents, completely courageous in Harbour Trust Renewals Fund and the the task that falls to his lot, and quite Closer Settlement Fund. The major a;ppro­ frank with his explanation of the many priation is that of £2,810,6-00 from the Road matters that come before him. Transport and Traffic Fund and a con­ So it is that, before I give attention to siderable portion of this sum is payable to the Appropriation Bill, it is desirable, and Consolidated Revenue Fund as a reimburse­ in fact necessary, to refer to certain por­ ment of the cost of police services a:>so­ tions of the report of the Auditor-General ciated with the supervision and control of and in particular to the colossal deficit traffic. experienced in governmental operations The appropriation of £700,000 from the during the past financial year. The surplus Sydney Harbour Trust Renewals Fund will in the Consolidated Revenue Fund is the be applied to the renewal and reconstruc­ excess of receipts by way of taxation and tion of wharves and for the replacement of other Government revenue over and above dredging and construction plant. The sum the cost of services provided by the Govern­ of £71,000 to be paid out of the Closer ment, including education, hospitals, and Settlement Fund is required principally to social benefits and other expenses that cover administrative expenses of the closer normally fall on the Government. Over settlement advisory boards. That concludes and above all the expenditure i11curred by my outline of the appropriations which are 1.he State during last year for the purposes covered in the bill. Following past prac­ of government, there was a surplus of tice, I have not attempted to discuss in revenue of £4,798,137.. However, to offset detail the various expenditures to be met that surplus, losses were incurred in the from the several funds referred to in this business undertakings amounting to bill. However, as in past years, I wish to £11,631,656, in consequence of which the assure hon. members that I shall endeavour State at 30th June, 1956, disclosl?d a defici­ to give them any further information that ency of £6,833,519, which was the largest they require in regard to any portions of ever experienced in the history of New the bill or any particular appropriation. South Wales. It was a deficiency that the State could ill afford. The Auditor­ The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES [4.45]: The General's report shows that over a period Attorney-General has explained that the of four years surpluses were shown on bill provides for an appropriation of money Consolidated Revenue Account of for the services of the Government for the £16,270,000, but deficiencies were experi­ year ending 30th June, 1957. As explained enced in the business undertaking·s of by him, the Government, in budgeting for £25,027,000. its requirements during the current :finan­ cial year, is faced with many difficulties. Colonel the Hon. H. J. R. CLAYTON: In encompassing those difficulties provision Over what period was that~ bas been made for the imposition of addi­ tional taxes, and it is to be hoped that The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: In four there will be a reduction in some direc­ years £25,000,000 was lost on the business tions of some of the Government's expendi­ undertakings. That is at the rate of abo_i,1t ture. Before one can adequatel:v consider £6,000,000 a year, but of course in the last an appropriation of revenues for the current financial year the loss was actually :financial year, it is necessary naturally to £11,000,00() which increased the average look to what has occurred in the vear that has just passed. To assist me in- mv con­ considerably. O>er a period of ·four years, sideration of last year's expenditure I have, however, the surplus of Government :as usual, directed my attention to the report revenue was actually £16,000,000. .Appropriation Bill. [10 OcT., l!J56.J .Appropriation Bill. 2893

During the last financial year the State 0f the credit of these accounts for general cash position suffered graevously. The purposes of go,·erument is not objectionable. Ueticiency financing is perhaps the least worthy overdraft at 30th June on Consolidated amongst the purposes for which the general Revenue Fund was £4,805,000. To this cash balance may be used and undoubtedly should be a.dded the overdraft on unre­ the limits of prudence in this direction had covered departmental advances of been reached at the close of the past year. £2,127,152, which should not be passed with­ If the adverse turn in the finances should be checked by higher transport charges and out some brief explanation. Apparently no new fiscal measures given effect in the 1956-57 explanation has hitherto been given, but buclget, the accumulated deficiency of itself when I 'refer to page 79 of the Auditor­ could not be described as alarming. It is General's report I find that of these unre­ nevertheless disconcerting to note that, although a great increase in rernnue is in prospect for ccvered departmental advances £1,698,984 1956-57, only the small sum of £36,935, is anti­ represents advances made about twenty-five cipated as surplus available in reduction of the years ago to meet a deficiency in collec­ deficiency. Moreover, the whole picture is tions of family endowment funds over pay­ overshadowed by the threat of further infla­ tion, which, if it eventuates, will create new ments made out of the fund. It is quite reYenue raising problems and altogether may cbvious that this amount will never he prove ,-ery much more difficult to cope "·ith recovered. The State is not now imposi11g than was the case in earlier years. a family endowment tax and has no hope Those are indeed grave words and this of recovering the deficiency from the Com­ House must examine them in the light of monwealth. For all prr.ctical purposes this past events and the position revealed amount should be treated as part of the in the accounts now before us, which losses of government revenue and should be show that accounts in credit in the name added to the accumulated deficit. of the State at 30th June totalled A sum of £325,000 was advanced to the £47,642,557. The accounts in overdraft, Government Railways Fund to mee.t in­ those to which I referred plus a number of terest and exchange; again this advance other departmental accounts, were was made many years ago. Since then the. £11,723,091. Therefore, the total resources Government Railways Fund has made re­ of the State, cash and securities, a.t :10th curring losses and the prospect of the de­ J unc totalled £35,909,466. However, of partment ever making profits sufficiently this sum £16,596,000 was in cash and large to recoup past losses appears £19,312,738 was held in securities. Ana lys­ completely illusionary. Therefore, the ing the accounts further I find that of the £325,000 also should be written off as an ca5h and securities held in the name of the unrecovered advance. The £.2,127,152 over­ Government on credit account, £13,20.5,489 draft in the State's account should be represents securities obtained from the added to the deficit in the Consolidated Government Insurance Office as a result of Revenue Fund, increasing the overdraft to funds built up for the protection of polic:v a.bout £7,000,000. In addition, the over­ holders who have taken out life assurance, draft at 30th June in the General Loan accident insurance and motor vehicle Account is £803,494. The Auditor-General insurance policies, a;nd set aside as caustically comments on the cash position n prudent and necessary measure. In addi­ of the Government. On page 8 of his re­ tion, in. the same fund in the name of the· port he points out that the cash account of State was cash totalling £765,971. H ever the Treasury has been reduced from a sur­ plus of accounts in credit over a.ccounts in funds were properly construed as trust overdraft of £26,089,703 at 30th June, 1955, funds, those held in trust for the Govern­ to £16,596,728 at 30th June, 1956. Further­ ment Insurance Office must surely come· more, he says: within this category. They were set a~ide· It has been pointed out in many reports of to satisfy the needs of those who might the Auditor-General that the strength of tho Treasurer's cash position rests almost entirely cl?.im against the Government Insurance· in the Special Deposits Accounts, composed of Office. However, to the extent outlined' trust moneys, departmental and other working accounts and funds held for particular ex­ the:v have been used by the State to sup-­ penditure objectives. Within reason the use port its account in overdraft at 30th J unc:> .. 2894 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill.

In addition to the sum that I have men­ Colonial Treasurer in his financial state­ tioned, other external liabilities held in ment suggested certain solutions, one of cash amounted to £7,429,930. Other liabili­ which was a reduction in the number of ties held as securities total £6,107,249, and migrants. I agree. Extensive immigration internal liabilities in cash £12,623,173. imposes a huge cost on the Commonwealth. Therefore, the total of external and internal Although it is necessary to provide for the liabilities at 30th June, £40,000,000, sup­ future of this country by increasing the ported the State's overdraft account. In population, the immigration programme the Auditor-General's opinion all may be must be considered in the light of :financial well provided that no further :financial trends. Recently I read with interest an deterioration ensues. He emphasises that Australian economic survey prepared by the New South Wales is faced with inflationary Commonwealth Government. The survey trends and that the prospective surplus of contains this statement: £36,000 for the current :financial year will At the encl of 1945 our population should be insufficient to meet them. In the light be 7,400,000 but to-day it numbers more than of recent events the situation is likely to 9,300,000. That is to say, in ten years there has been an increase of more than 25 per cent.... become infinitely worse. Nearly 800,000 of the increase of 1,900,000 An increase of 12s. in the basic wage in were addecl by net migration.. Migrant fami­ November is being freely forecast; it would lies also contributed to the increase of 1,100,000 recorded as clue to natural increase in the undoubtedly increase the Government's ex­ period ... Thus, between the censuses of 1947 penditure. Whether this expenditure could and 1954 the work force increased from be recouped by the gaining of additional 3,200,000 to 3,700,000, or 16 per cent., whereas revenue is extremely · doubtful. Further the number of persons outside the work force increased by 21 per cent. increases in the basic wage are likely in February and May, 1957, unless the infla­ In other words, the work force was required tionary trend is halted. The cost to the to support a larger number of dependants. Government of a 12s: increase in the basic Unless the factors that add to the cost wage would he about £4,000,000. Experi­ of government are controlled, galloping in­ ence has shown that when an inflationary flation will gain ascendancy. The Common­ trend begins it continues to snowball, and wealth Government has ah:eady acted to in February, 1957, there could quite easily reduce the intake of migrants. I commend be an increase of 18s. in the basic wage. its action as I believe it will assist to arrest This would cost the State £6,000,000. An the inflationary trend. increase of 27s., which is also likely, would The Hon. J. A. WEIR: The hon. member cost the State a further £9,000,000. There­ is too late in making that suggestion. fore New South ·wales may face a finan­ cial deficit of £19,000,000 at the end of The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: I do not the current financial year. wish to cavil at what should have been done before. All hon. members should act The Hon. J. J .. MALONEY: Does the hon. with the best of motives in the interests of member mean that the State would incur the community. The Colonial Treasurer that additional expense in a period of twelve asserted that overseas capital should be months~ raised so as to reduce· pressure on local resources. He stressed· also the need for The Hon .. A. D. BRIDGES: That is so­ import control. All hon. members will the cost of materials would also be in­ agree that the raising of more overseas capi­ creased. I do· not wish to be political in tal should be encouraged. The Colonial making this speech. I assure the House Treasurer suggested that imports should that I have the interest of the State at he controlled on a more selective basis, as heart. The iinan·cial position in New South luxury industries were benefiting to the Wales is serious and requires careful con­ ·detriment of essential industries. All hon. members are aware of the controversy on sideration by all hon. members. Construc­ import control. Undoubtedly the imposi­ tive proposals should be advanced for the tion of these controls has ruined many solution of these grave problems. The importers, but on the other hand they have Appropriation Bill. [10OcT.,1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2895 been the salvation of many local indus­ gentleman intimated that he did not favour tries. The Department of Trade is review­ a pegging of wages and that he considered ing the question of import control. In my there should be an abandonment of the -0pinion further import controls will not pernicious system of uniform taxation. I markedly affect the economic situation of am delighted to learn that Cabinet has this State. now decided to join forces with the State The fourth suggestion of the Premier of Victoria in opposition to the continu­ and Colonial Treasurer is that the Com­ ance of uniform. taxation and in an monwealth Government should exercise approach to the High Court to have the greater control over its own expenditure, present uniform taxation system set aside including that on defence. I remind hon. on the ground that it is· invalid. The members that· the Commonwealth Parlia­ pegging of wages and the fixing of prices ment has a highly effective Public Accounts is, of course, a controversial question but Committee engaged in supervising all forms it should not be baulked by any hon. mem­ of expenditure. The time is opportune to ber. The Australian Labor party for years establish in New South Wales a public past has said that living standards can be accounts committee with the responsibility improved only at the expense of profits. of scrutinising all forms of Government That statement has been made all too fre­ expenditure for the purpose of eliminatiug quently. The cry of the Australian Labor unnecessary expenses and of recommend­ party is to increase wages and reduce divi­ ing wherever reductions can be achieved. A dends. further suggestion by the Premier and The Hon. R. R. DowXING: Where did the Colonial Treasurer was the abolition of hon. member get that? payroll tax. For many years past this has been one of the pious hopes of all hon. The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: I remind members on this side of the Chamber. In the Minister of statements made by the my opinion payroll tax is an iniquity. It Premier and Colonial Treasurer that wages is a tax on employers of labour, although must be increased to meet the increased it is ·levied to pay for a social service burdens imposed on consumers and that a benefit-family endowment. It should not means of doing so would be to reduce profits be a sectional tax. Payroll tax provides by preventing the manufacturers and sellers the Commonwealth with about £40,000,000 of goods from passing on the cost of in­ a year in revenue. creased wages. If an employer of Jabour is required to pay additional wages but not The Hon. J. A. WEIR: The consumer allowed to pass them on, his profits must pays· it. suffer detriment. The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: The con­ The Hon. R. A. KING : The basic wage sumer or the community may pay the tax, earner is three months behind all the time. but it falls first upon employers of labour, including the Government of the State. The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: That may If £40,000,000 were suddenly taken from be so, but I am dealing with an extremely the Commonwealth without being replaced grave position and I am sure that the Hon. from some other source, the Commonwealth R. A. King would not contemplate with Government would suffer the same fate as any degree of happiness the prospect of is in prospect for New South Wales-a an increase of anything up to 40s. a week colossal deficit at the end o{ the year. in the basic wage during the remaining Otherwise the Commonwealth would be nine months of this financial year. The compelled to look for other sources of in­ wage-earner would be no better off. It is come that perhaps would be just as obnoxi­ unreasonable for anyone to suggest that ous as payroll tax. The sixth solution increases in wages can be obtained at the proposed by the Premier and Colonial expense of those who produce the goods. Treasurer was the control of prices and They simply must be passed on and no capital issues and the levying of an excess government merely by the imposition of profits tax. At the same time the hon. price control can prevent them from being 2d!JG A pproprialion Bill. Appropriation Bill.

passed on. The principal ingredient in the professions were £520,000,000. Dividends,.. production of all goods undoubtedly is out of a total income of £4,079,000,000r wages, I have made somewhat of a survey amounted to only £120,000,000. The pros­ of this matter. During my inquiries I read pect of paying from that £120,000,000 the­ with interest a book entitled The Pros­ increased costs of wages consequent upon perity of Australia written by :Mr. F. C. resumption of quarterly adjustments is in­ Benham in 1927. Twenty-nine years ago deed limited. Cash social service benefits­ this author forecast that eventually the were £271,000,000. Deferred pay of mem­ share of salaries and wages in the national bers of the forces and private remittances. income of Australia would be 60 per cent. from overseas amounted to £20,000,000. I have analysed also a statement entitled That is a most comprehensive statement, National Income.and Expenditure, 1955-56, showing that the incomes of the people­ prepared by the Commonwealth Statis­ their wages and salaries-can be increased tician, which forms part of the papers only by an increase in the national income, presented to the House of Representatives that is, an increase in the productivity of on its consideration of the Commonwealth this country. I hate to say that I think Budget. This paper contains particulars Australia's productivity compares most un­ of national income and expenditure for the favourably with that of many other coun­ years from 1948-49 to 1955-56. In Aus­ tries. Figures supplied to the World Bank tralia in 1948-49 salaries and wageR totalled and other organisations reveal that in the £1,060,000,000. The national income for United States of America the real national the same year was £1,945,000,000 and the productivity per man-hour worked increased percentage of wages and salaries to between 1894 and 1944 by 130 per cent.~· national income was 54.5. In 1951-52 wages in Sweden, by 120 per cent.; in the United and salaries were £1,890,000,000; the Kingdom, 93 per cent.; in Germany, 84 per national income was £3,255,000,000 and the cent.; and in Australia, 55 per cent. percentage of the former to the latter was 58.1. In 1954-55 the total of wages and The Hon. R. A. KL>:G: Would not that be salaries was £2,353,000,000; the national due to the advance in machinery? income, £4,047,000,000; and the percentage The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Exactly; of wages and salaries to national income but the advance in machinery is surely 57.5. During 1955-56, the latest year for just as much a factor in Australia as in which figures are available, wages and Sweden. Surely the advance in machinery salaries totalled £2,562,000,000; the national ought to be encouraged, and I propose to income was £4,312,000,000; and the per­ refer briefly to the great desirability of centage of wages and salaries to the giving every encouragement to automation national income was 59.4. According to as a means of increasing productivity and the estimate that was made in 1927, wages reducing costs; unless that is done Aus­ and salaries have almost reached their level tralia will lag far behind the rest of the as a share of national income. world. In the past forty-five years, from I shall refer hon. members briefly to the 1911 to 1956, the real wages of the workers sources of income in Australia during the in Australia have increased at the rate of past financial year so that they may judge 1 per cent. per annum. In the United for themselves whether there is any method States of America they have increased by other than increased productivity by which more than 2 per cent. per annum .. What is the workers can achieve greater income. In the result? In the United States of America 1955-56, as I mentioned before, the total wages are paid on a high scale indeed, but of wages and salaries was £2,430,000,00D. the industries there are prospering and are The pay for members of the forces was able to afford those wages. I offer this as £62,000,000 and their allowances and similar items another £70,000,000. The in­ a criticism to those hon. members who are comes of farmers were £409,000,000. Rent associated with the trade unions: one of the and interest amounted to :£130,000,000. In­ reasons for the high prosperity in the .comes of unincorporated businesses and United States of America is that the trade The Hon . .LI.. D. Bridges.] Appropriation Bill. [10 OoT., 1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2897 unions are not affiliated with political par­ The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: According ties, but recognise that the salvation of the to the court, on the resumption of quarterly workers lies in the continued prosperity of adjustments, the increase measured by the the industries in which they are engaged, "0" Series index amounted to lOs.-ap­ and consequently, in a large measure, in proximately at the rate of 2s. a quarter. T!:ie their co-operation. w bole of our economy has been destroyed for the sake of. that 2s. a quarter. Had those The Hon. R. A. Krno: The unions play quarterly adjustments not been restored, it an important part in the elections there, is conceivable that there could have been just the same. a reduction in the costs of goods. The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: They may The Hon. J. A. WEIR: What happened do, but the Hon. R. A. King, who plays an in South Australia? important part in the industrial life of this country, must recognise that it would be The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: I shall no benefit whatever to the workers of Aus­ answer that in a moment. Over that period tralia to destroy our industries or render of two years there has been a regular re­ them so unprofitable that they can no longer duction in prices of clothing. Why? Be­ carry the same work force to produce the cause of more efficient methods; because goods with the same celerity and efficiency. supply had attained the demand; there was The workers of this country have now a a constancy of employment; and there were real opportunity, through their trade unions, no interruptions, as there had been, so fre­ to get together with management and seek quently, before. Though there have been to reduce costs and to increase production. reductions in prices of clothing, other prices Only by that means can we realise the have increased and will further increase desire of this and every other government, unless the workers are called upon to make namely, to improve the prosperity and liv­ the sacrifice of an abandonment for the ing standards of the people, without time being of their quarterly wage adjust­ destroying the great industries that have ment. been set up. The Hon. J. A. WEIR: Why call on them This State is in an alarming position. only? Unless something is done about it immedi­ The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Perhaps the ately, in the next twelve months we shall be hon. member will agree that I said I saw faced with higher wages without the means no alternative to this course, because it was with which to pay them. Also, industry not possible for industry to refrain from might well be called upon not to pass on passing on an increase in wages, and it is the increased cost of wages, in which case not possible for dividends or capital to bear it will be unable to sell the goods at a it. It can only be passed on to the workers profit. This will not do industry or in the form of increased costs of goods, so the workers any good. I suggest with all that in the long run they would be no better humility that it was a real mistake for off. However, if they are willing to accept this Government to have resumed quarterly what has already been decided in Victoria wage adjustments some time ago. Until and recommended by the Prime Minister, and what must necessarily surely be in the that was done, though there was certainly mind of our Premier-the suspension of an increase in living costs-- quarterly basic wage adjustments in the The Hon. J. A. WEIR: A substantial in- interests in the fong run of the workers themselves-what will be the result? I crease. venture to prophesy that if some of my The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: No. With other suggestions are adopted a reduction of all respect to the hon. member, the increase living costs will shortly occur. Surely it in living costs over a period of two years will not be suggested that the workers will suffer a reduction of wages if there is a fall was 10s. in living costs. On the contrary, I am sure The Hon. J. A. WEIR: It was 18s. that the worker will benefit. He must, 182 '2898 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropria.tion Bill. because all over the world real wages have though the cost was great it was quickly risen in value with increased productivity. recovered from increased output. For this If we in Australia ca.n only increase our reason governments must fall into line with productivity as has been done in other parts industry and help in the increased use of of the world, definitely the workers in this automation. country will share in the benefits that will In conclusion I postulate how govern­ flow. ments may stimulate industry. I suggest that The other day I noticed in a newspaper better machinery, more suitable, more effec­ article a statement that the basic wage, tive and cheaper transport, a more helpful which has fluctuated from £4 6s. 9d. Commonwealth fiscal policy, and improved in 1923 to £12 16s. in 1956, has technical education will do much to obtain higher living standards and reduced public reduced the value of the £ to 6s. Sd. However, the increase in the aver­ expenditure. I should like now to comment on the State's transport undertakings for age real wage has exceeded the diminu­ they, perhaps more than any other factor, tion in the value of the £; in other words, have resulted in the calamitous position though the £ buys less, the wage received with which we are now confronted. buys more. I am sure that there is not an hon. member who would deny that though The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: Has the hon. workers are not getting all that they ·would member any suggestions about what should like to get and all that I should like them be done to improve the position? to receive, they are immeasurably better off now than they were thirty years ago. I The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Yes, but I do not say who is responsible for the im­ should like to make my suggestions at the provement; a.11 I say is good luck to the conclusion of my speech. The Hon J. J. workers and that I hope it will not be long Maloney may not agree with my sugges­ before they are even better off than they tions, but I make them because they repre­ are now. However, they can achieve better sent my views and are not necessarily in times and further prosperity only by in­ accord with those of many of my col­ creased productivity. leagues. This is the time in this House when we can be frank and express our One hon. member has referred to auto­ views without fear or favour. We mation. Undoubtedly this must be en­ are here in the interests of the country. couraged; it is downright folly to suggest On previous occasions I have made sug­ that it brings in its train more evil than gestions in connection with ·our transport good. Automation undoubtedly results in undertakings. For instance, I have sug­ a reduction in the number of men required gested that if they were conducted on busi­ to be employed on a particula.r process, but ness lines, they would be administered in it also builds other industries. It is not so a different manner. many years ago that women's hosiery in quality could not be compared in any way The Hon. J. A. WEIR: Does the hon. with the present product, nor are member suggest that many rail services production costs comparable. l\fore efficient should be discontinued? methods, scientific progress and a better The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Not neces­ use of machinery has resulted in the crea­ sarily, but 'perhaps some services should be tion of an industry that enables the popu­ discontinued. Investigation might show lace tc enjoy more comforts. The increase that some could well be closed. It may in the number of motor vehicles, radios, happen, and surely the Hon. J. A. Weir refrigerators, washing machines and the will agree with this statement, that if a other commodities that the worker now en­ line is not attracting much patronage and joys, has been brought about by the stimu­ the cost of its operation is out of all pro­ lus given to new industries. The use of portion to the benefits gained by those automatic processes, with emphasis on auto­ who use it, it would be much better to mation, may well result in better proce.;ses and cheaper goods. I have seen capital use road transport and to scrap the line. outlaid to replace obsolete ma.chinery and In fact it has been suggested at times that The Hon. Lt. D. Briclges.] Appropriation Bill. [10OcT.,1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2899 losses incurred by our tramway undertak­ I look forward to the day when there will ing might be much reduced if no fares were be a return of some of the profits to em­ charged and conductors not employed. The ployees of the New South Wales Depart­ use of business methods in the transport ment of Railways. I firmly believe in in- undertakings would result in losses not . centive systems. The total expenditure nearly so large as those now suffered. One of the Electricity Commission was reason for the inefficient functioning of £33,386,000; depreciation, £5,114,000; the transport undertakings is that never interest, £4,488,000 and the surplus was in the history of railways administration £659,000. That concern uses business has an attempt been made to run the depart­ methods. If hon. members looked at the ment on lines similar to those of the accounts of the Department of Railways Electricity Commission of New South until Doomsday they would not find a Wales, the State dockyards, the State single reference to depreciation. Recently Brickworks, or other business undertakings I received a publication from the Nether­ conducted by the State. The other business lands Information Service showing that in undertakings to which I have referred make 1955 the Netherlands railways paid a 3 their accounts in such a form that they per cent. dividend. The net operating pro­ may be readily compared with any privately fit was £1,250,000, compared with £300,000 managed concern. They provide for the in 1954. This resulted in the payment of depreciation of wasting assets. At a glance a dividend of 3 per cent. to the owner, the it is possible to see the value of assets Netherlands State, on its capital of after provision has been made for depre­ £35,000,000. In 1955 the gTOSS revenue of ciation. This is charged against the profit the Netherlands railways was £52,500,00.0, earned by the undertaking and the net compared with £46,500,000 in 1954. In result shows a real rather than an inverted 195'5 the expenditure was £43,700,000 and position. in 1954 £40,000,000. The depreciation was . £8,000,000 in 1955 and £7,000,000 in 195{ The Hon. W. R. COULTER: That is not £500,000 was contributed to a fund for necessarily so. eliminating level crossings. Nothing like that has been done in New South Wales. The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: With all The general reserve fund was· increased by respect to the Hon. IV. R. Coulter, I have £2,500,000 to a total of £15,000,000. That frequently heard the Hon. J. :M:. Con­ is a great achievement for a small country cannon say that the loan obligation of the such as Holland. Recently in this House Department of Railways far exceeds the I drew attention to a statement in a world­ famous journal which pointed out that value of the undertaking. What is the American railway companies had sought to reason for this? The rolling stock value reduce fares and freights. Those companies and the fixed assets of the Department of competed fairly with road and other means Railways have never been depreciated, and of transport and yet were able to provide until business methods are introduced in services more cheaply than did road trans­ this department they never will be depre­ port. The Interstate Commerce Commis­ ciated. However, look at the position at sion refused their application for reduction. the State dockyards. The total expendi­ The Hon. R. L. Day: Those companies ture last year was £2,881,429. Depreciation are subsidised. provided for was £62,674 and interest £50,631. The p~ovision for capital repay­ The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: I have made ment was £4,670 and the remaining net exhaustive inquiries and have ascertained profit was £204,163. Those are obviously that no railway company in the United business accounts, for one may look at them States of America is subsidised. Those and say, "These are truly the results of companies pay taxes, meet interest charges, this undertaking." Of that £204,000, and allow for depreciation, yet are still £117,000 was paid back to the employees. able to give excellent service to the people 2900 .Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Anropriation Bill.

of the United States of America. If per­ South Wales is 13.7; in Victoria 13.2; in mittecL they would be able to reduce fares Queensland 14.5; in South Australia 14; and freights. in Western Australia 14.4; and in Tas­ mania 14.7. The Hon. R L. DAY: The United States of Am crica has a big population and a Despite the areas that have to be small area. traversed and the lack of communi­ cations, the more sparsely populated States The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: I have make more provision for education than already said so. The American railway do New South Wales and· Victoria. The companies compete with road, barge and percentage of rural workers in New South air transport, yet are able to make their Wales is less than in any other State. The railw::i.ys pay. percentage of factory workers in New South Wales is substantially less than in The .Hon. J. A. WEIR: Some railway lines Victoria and South Australia. Between hav been closed in the United States of 1947 and 1954 the increase in population Amvi"ica. was 14.7 per cent. in New South Wales; The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Unprofitable 19.4 per cent. in Victoria; 19.2 per cent. lines have been closed, probably because in Queensland; 23.4 per cent. in South of the activities of road transport operators. Australia; 27.3 per cent. in Western Aus­ Nothing is wrong with that. If a railway tralia; and 20.1 per cent. in Tasmania. system is uneconomic and inefficient, it Apparently New South Wales does not should be closed. The New South Wales attract migrants and other persons to the Government has discontinued several rail­ same extent as the other States. way services, perhaps more railway lines The Hon. J. A. WEIR: Do those :figures should be closed and better roads provided. cover population merely by migration? The Hon. J. A. WEIR: The hon. member The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: No. Those should advocate that in the country. figures include the natural increase in The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: A lot de­ population as well as migrants. The pends upon which section of the country. figures are truly demonstrative. The Gov­ ernment should ask itself why people prefer The Hon. J. A. WEIR: What about to go to other States. Why do these people Dorrigo? ! not come to New South Wales~ The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Perhaps The Hon. J. A. WEIR: The other States the Dorrigo line should not be closed. are spending through the grants they re­ During its term of office this Gov­ ceive from the Commonwealth money that ernment has closed some railway lines belongs to New South Wales . because their continuance has not been justified. It is all very well for hon. The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: The situa.­ members to boost the accomplishments tion that I have described applies in all of this State. I merely draw comparisons the other States of Australia, irrespective to show that the methods used in New of grants from the Commonwealth Govern­ South Wales could be much improved. The ment. The State of Victoria is not receiv­ Commonwealth-States Grants Commission ing special grants from the Federal Gov­ deals with the provision of financial ernment. Undoubtedly ·western Australia assistance to the States. In an impartial is receiving them, but South Australia re­ document it gives data supported by statis­ ceives only meagre grants. Consider the tics. Western Australia and South Aus­ savings bank deposits per capita in the other tralia are sparsely populated and could States. In New South Wales the average reasonably be e.'\'.pected to have higher costs savings bank deposit is £399; in Victoria, of administration per capita. However, £434; in Queensland, £417; in South Am•• the costs of ar}rninistration in those States tralia, £455; in Western Australia, £435 are lower than in New South Wales. The a.nd in Tasmania, £437. The people in percentage of school children in New New South Vi7 ales cannot even save as Appropriation Bill. [10OCT.,1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2901 much money as those in other States! The may not be prevented from doing so. In €conomic indicators that are essentials to furtherance of the objective of ma.king the prosperity of any State again show the transport undertakings comparable in that New South Wales falls for below the their operation with other business under­ rest of the Australian States. I said earlier takings, the whole of their fixed capital to the Minister for Labour and Industrv assets should be revalued. that I should make my suggestions to solv'e the problems of New South Wales. Let Colonel the Hon. H. J. R. OLA Y'l'O:N" : me do so now. I suggest that wages, hours Does the hon. member refer to the railways~ and conditions be determined by the arbi­ The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: I refer to tration court, its powers to include the all the transport undertakings, including right to suspend or continue quarterly ad­ the railways, the metropolitan a,nd New­ justments of the basic wage. I sup:gest that castle transport services. The excess, if a productivity council be established, such any, of the loan liability over the fixed council to include representatives of asset value of the undertakings should be unions, the Government and employers. transferred to whatever department might This council could consider and re­ be appropriate-it might be the Depa.rt­ commend methods of reducing production ment of Public Works-and the interest o~ <:osts. I suggest that Federal taxation laws the transferred loan liability should then should be amended to provide for initial be a charge against consolidated revenue. depreciation on newly acquired machinery, Thereafter the transport undertakings provided that it is acquired for the purpose should carry in their accounts provision -0f reducing production costs. I suggest for depreciation of assets of a diminishing that manufacturers be encouraged to oper­ chara.cter and interest on the reduced debt. ate their plants on a two or three shift No allowance, however, is to be made from basis, rather than duplicate and treble Consolidated Revenue Fund for contribu­ €xisting plant. tions towards interest charges and losses The Hon. R. L. DAY: Many manufac­ on developmental lines. I make that recom­ turers do that already. mendation in all sincerity. It has been generally appreciated for some time that The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: A lot do, the val!le of the railways undertaking as but not all of them. I make that suggestion shown by the accounts of the Department because I know how materially production of Railways might well be fictitious. No costs can be reduced if plant is operated at nrovision has been made in those accounts its full capacity. I suggest that sa;rings for depreciation, obsolescence, or other in production costs through the use of new factors, which means that the first cost of and more efficient plant should be applied many of these assets still appears in the to price reductions and greater rewards to accounts. labour; also that trade unions should aban­ The Hon. R. '.R. Dow:imw: No proTision don their historic role of affiliation with is made for the apprecia.ted value of land. political parties and should in future con­ centra.te instead upon the improvement of . The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: I am deal­ wages and amelioration of working condi­ ing with fixed assets of a diminishing tions. I suggest that the transport under­ character. It would be wrong indeed for takings be freed from political control and the Department of Railways to be chari:red placed in a position comparable with that with the consequences that flow from in­ of private enterprise, this freedom to in· creases in land values and it would be elude the right of the commissione!"S to cquall:v wrong, if there is any adjustment approach the arbitration court on any ma.t­ of ra.ilway finances, for the capital value <.:ers on which it is deemed expedient to do of the undertaking to be based on the so, without restriction at the hands of the original cost of :fixed assets of a diminish­ Minister for Transport, so that if a com­ ing character. A .subject of controversy missioner deems it expedient to approach for many years has been the charging to the court on the matter of penalty rates he the railways of interest on their original 2902 .Approp1-iation Bill. [COUNCIL.] .Appropriation Bill. debts less sinking fund payments, despite no control-the movement in the basic the fact that the securities that should exist wage. Hon. members should address them­ are no longer worth the amounts originally selves to the problem so that they can have borrowed. If my suggestion is adopted a clear picture of how it has come about. there will in future be no provision in the The reason for all the troub~es of the accouillts of the State for contributions State finances is so obvious that it should to the interest charges of the Department not need to be stated. These troubles fl.ow of Railways or other transport undertak­ from the business undertakings. This is ings. These would show in their own shown in the summary of the financial posi­ accounts whether there was a deficiency of tion of the State contained in the Auditor­ revenue in relation to working expenses, General's report, especially in relation to interest and deprec~ation. The accounts last year. The Consolidated Revenue Fund would show such a deficiency as a. carry­ had a surplus last year of £4,798_,137, but forward to the next year rather than as an against this must be set off the loss on the item written off against Consolidated Rev­ business undertakings of £11,631,6.56. The enue Fund in the current accounts. Thus result is that the State finances show a a true exposition would be contained in deficit of £6,833,519. Losses in the trans­ the transport undertakings' accounts them­ port undertakings are not new. Over selves and consolidated revenue account some years they have become increasingly also would show its position clearly. This worse. In the past ten years the losses fund should reveal the costs of government on metropolitan transport services, not in­ to be reimbursed from taxation and other cluding Newcastle transport, and the rail­ sources of revenue to which the State has ways amounted to £41,900,000. This shows access. The railways would operate as a the extent to which the results of the business undertaking and would be re­ business undertakings overwhelm all the quired to meet interest charges and other financial operations of the State. No doubt burdens of capital expenditure. Though many factors contribute to this result. It my views probably are not in a,ccord with is not possible to say that one factor alone the opinions of some of my colleagues, they is the cause of these terrific losses. are sincere and represent a means by which the State may extricate Hon. members are familiar with my views itself from the financial dilemma in which about the railways. Their operation has it is now placed. If the Government gives been severely prejudiced by the modern developments of road and air transport. mv0 views favourable consideration, the next year's accounts could be an improvement What is to be done about that, I cannot on those for this year. say. However, another factor that plays a most important part in the :financial The Hon. H. V. BUDD [5.59] : I am results of the State is the movement in sure that hon. members listened with in­ wage costs. It is no good shutting our terest and admiration to the speech of the eyes to this fact,, and hon. members should Hon. A. D. Bridges. Obviously he has consider this problem and its effect upon given a tremendous amount of work to its the business undertakings. They have no prepa.ration and he has shown a most shareholders, and the people who administer thorough grasp of the problems that con­ and conduct them do not have to concern front this State at present. I shall not themselves with paying dividends. There­ attempt to cover all the ground that is open fore, when considering the position of the to an hon. member in the debate on tbe business undertakings and the impact on Appropriation Bill, but all hon. members them of wage costs, one can disregard any must be concerned at the critical state of thought that the results might be caused the finances of New South Wales. We by increased dividends, secret reserves must face the hard facts· that last year New being put away, or allowances for deprecia­ South Wales had the biggest deficit in its tion in excess of ordinary requirements. I history, and that this year the deficiency do not believe in paying low wages. I might be even larger. The result will de­ have said many times in this House that pend on a contingency over which we have I believe in high wages, but that they can Appropriation Bill. [10OcT.,1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2903

be paid only if related to productivity. In court gave its decision in the famous mar­ his Financial Statement the Premier and gins case, which is reported in Australia in Colonial Treasurer devoted much time to Facts and Figures, issued by the Australian relating what happened at the recent Can­ News and Information Bureau of the berra conference of Premiers and the Act­ Department of the Interior. ing Prime Minister. In the early part of his statement he said: The Hon. J. A. WEIR: That was two years after the pegging of the basic wage. Before the conference, the opinion was widely held that variations of the basic wage in The Hon. H. V. BUDD: No. The court accordance with the cost-of-living "C series" index was a major, if not the major, cause of gave its decision about one year after­ the continual rise in price levels and deprecia­ wards, on 5th November, 1952. tion: of the currency. At the end of the con­ ference I think that opinion had changed to The Hon. J. A. Wma: It was 1953. a wider view that prices and wages are largely an effect of inflation, which itself is caused The Hon. H. V. BUDD: In that deci­ by more fundamental factors. sion the court made use of the two and a If there was a widely held view, lt was that half times formula. It is stated in issue held by the Premier and Colonial Trea­ 44 of Australia in Facts and Figures: surer and his Ministers, and expressed in Taking the margin of the fitter as a key strong language only a year or two ago margin for the skilled employee, the Court concluded that viewed in the light of the when the quarterly basic-wage increases present monetary values and in the whole set­ were beginning to alarm everyone. In July, ting of ma1·ginal rates, his margin should be 1952, when the basic wage in Sydney rose assessed at 75s., or 21 times his 1937 margin. by 12s. a week, the Premier said: The Hon. C. CoLBORNE: That was in These perioclical rises are becoming fear­ 1954. some ... To-day £1 won't buy the equivalent of what 5s. did a few years ago. Prices don't The Hon. H. V. BUDD: It was one year chase the wage-it is always the wage chasing after the court suspended basic-wage adjust­ prices. Prices will again spiral viciously as ments. a result of this latest delayed increase. The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: Decisions were Ministers of the Government made similar given in November, 1953, and November, statements. The Minister for .Labour and 1954. Industry stated that every ls. increase in The Hon. J. A. WEIR: What, a year with the basic wage meant an increase of ls. 9d. eighteen months in it? in the cost of goods that the worker bu;y_s. These are the wideiy held views to which The Hon. H. V. BUDD: Quarterly ad­ the Premier referred, and I cannot under­ justments were suspend~d in September, stand why he gave the impression in Can­ 1953, and the margins judgment was given berra that it was held by other people but in November, 1954. I correct my statement not by himself. The Premier said also in that the judgment was given in November, .his Financial Statement: 1952. The formula of two and a half times When the basic wage was pegged for two 1937 margins was then evolved by the court years in this State, prices rose at the same and it proceeded to apply this formula to ···rate as in States where the basic wage was not the whole field of industrial awards. · has been, and still is, no variation of the basic wage with the cost of living, the rise in prices The Hon. J. A. WEIR: That is not so. has been the same as in other States. That statement is completely fallacious. The Hon. H. V. BUDD: The court applied it over the whole field of indus­ It leaves out of account the fact that after tries covered by Federal awards. the Commonwealth Court of Conciliation and Arbitration decided to suspend The Hon. J. A. WEIR: That is not so. quarterly basic-wage adjustments it pro­ The Hon. H. V. BUDD: The court ceeded to consider the question of margins. applied the formula to all those who re­ Hon. members recall that evidence was quested it. I have taken the trouble to heard over a lengthy period and finally the inquire from the Bureau of Statistics what 2904 Appropriation Bill. [OOuNCIL.] .Appropri.ation Biil. actually happened. I was told that the The Hon. A. D. Bridges said that a posi­ metal trades employees received a marginal tion was fast being approached where 60 increase of 23s. a week. In the building per cent. of the national income would be trade the margin increases· varied between expended on wages. 22s. and 25s. a week and in the engineering trade the average increase was 23s. a week. The Hon. R. L. DAY: What is wrong with These increases occurred after the quarterly that! adjustments to the basic wage were sus­ The Hon. H. V. BUDD: The Auditor­ pended. Naturally the marginal increases General, when considering the position of affected prices in every State. It is no good the business undertakings, particularly the picking one State, South Australia, and metropolitan transport services, pointed saying that, though quarterly adjustments out that the sum obtained from fares col­ of the basic wage were not restored in that lected only slightly exceeded wages paid State, prices went up just the same as in to employees. For example, in the past other States. Of course they did. They financial year the sum paid for wages and went up everywhere· as a result of the mar­ salaries was £9,554,000,. but the earnings ginal increases. obtained from fares collected totalled only The Hon. J. A. WEIR: They did not go £9,850,971. The remainder of the costs up- of the service, including the costs of build­ ing trams, buying and running buses, of oil The AC'I'IJ.'

Colonel the Hon. H. J. R. CLAYTON : The he was noncommittal. Acting on his ad­ ·courts would be more consistent. vice, I shall speak of the North Coast of New South Wales where I have spent most The Hon. H. V. BUDD: They would. of my life. The Labor party considers that The Government by restoring quarterly the North Coast is a political no-man's­ .adjustments to the basic wage has brought land, the development of which has been about a most critical :financial position: retarded by bureaucrats, red tape and anti­ the State is now facing bankruptcy. The Labor politicians. The Country party whole of the Budget including estimates gentlemen who represent the North Coast of income and expenditure will be com­ are far too astute to advocate the develop­ pletely falsi£eq. by what may happen in ment of the vast natural resources of min­ the next few months. The Budget erals and timber that abound in this area might as well be tom up as accepted because the implementation of such a policy .as a reliable prediction of what will would result in a large increase in the happen in the current :financial year. population and in the political suicide of It is strange that in the whole of the Country party. the Treasurer's statement no suggestion was made of the Government's intentions I congratulate the Government on its other than, of course, a land tax and a tax last amendments to the Local Government -0n hire-purchase transactions. However, Act under which aldermen are now elected I do not think the Premier made any real on the proportional representation system. suggestions to solve the problems confront­ That method has enabled members of the ing the State. As he has done for many Labor party to be elected to most shires years, the Premier spent much time point­ and municipalities on the North Coast. ing out what the Commonwealth could do. They have demonstrated that they are just I agree with some of his views. For as able to control local government affairs example, I agree with him that it is as are the anti-Labor aldermen who have monstrous and preposterous that a payroll dominated these councils for the last half­ tax should be levied by one government century. I prophesy that within the next on the instrumentalities of another. I ten years a Labor mayor and president will notice in the Estimates that this payroll hold office in every municipality and shire tax is payable by almost every government on the North Coast. I listened with con­ department. However, I do not agree with siderable interest to the debate on the the Premier's view on many other matters. Address-in-Reply and particularly to Sir He would have done a much better job for Henry Manning's speech. Everyone will the State if he had spent more time telling agree that he knew what he was talking the people what his Government can do, about. He said that in the :first parliament a cabinet was formed and then a shadow instead of spending so much time telling cabinet of departmental heads was ap­ the Commonwealth Government what it pointed. I agree wholeheartedly with one should do. of his colleagues who interjected that people [The Acting President left the chair at 6.20 who elect governments to-day have less con­ p.m. The House reswmed at 7.45 p.'m.] trol over them than did electors 100 years ago. Unless the people do something about The Hon. J. L. KENNY [7.48] : I sup­ it, the bureaucrats will completely domi­ port the Budget. Since this is my maiden nate the Government. Recently two rail­ speech let me say how happy I am to be way employees were censured by the J\Eni;;­ a member of this Chamber in this, the ter for Transport for a breach of discipline. centenary year of responsible government After they had a couple of weeks' holiday on full pay they were reinstated by the in New South Wales. I consulted one of Railway Appeals Board. How can any my colleagues about my speech and he government implement its policies if its advised me to speak on matters about which Ministers are surrounded by a "shadow" I know something. I asked whether this cabinet that is secretly opposed to its policy. was the usual practice in this Chamber, but To my mind this is Labor's most serious 2906 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill. obstacle. It is impossible for a Minister that these children are properly educated to keep a watchful eye on any undertaking and given the idea of doing a fair day's: when his officers shelve responsibility and work for a fair day's pay. are past masters· at writing reports and I shall now deal with the activities of the· passing the liuck. Common sense and Lands Department. About thirty-three practical experience should take the place years ago Mr. Phil Morton, the father of of red tape in all government departments. the Leader of the Opposition, was interested The Government should appoint three or in a project in those early days at Cattai four of its members with the necessary Creek. After he had written and received practical experience and common sense to many letters, and had been frustrated on all act as liaison officers between the Ministers sides, he eventually received a letter in­ and the electors. forming him that riparian rights had come I propose now to deal with the problems into the matter, and that the matter had that should be faced on the North Coast. been referred to the Crown Solicitor. The people of that district are unanimous About three and a half years ago when I in their opinion that its vast natural re­ was elected to the Port Macquarie Munici­ sources cry out for development. Often pal Council I brought up the same matter. we read in the press that we will lose this I wrote to the Lands Department and country if it is not developed. On the numerous letters passed backwards and North Coast are numerous great rivers forwards. with tributaries running into them. After the local council had fought its Without incurring a lot of expense those way through the tangle of red tape, though rivers could be dammed and the water con­ I had not thought such a thing possible, served for irrigation purposes. There are it got from the Department of Lands a four or five tributaries in the upper regions letter couched in exactly the same terms of the Hastings River, upon which dams as the other that I mentioned earlier. It could be built in suitable positions to the was informed that riparian rights were in­ benefit of local farmers. Production of volved and the matter had been referred the district would be doubled. At the head to the Crown Solicitor. A month or two of the Hastings and ]\fanning and Macleay later the Crown Solicitor made up his mind rivers, limestone deposits unparalleled any­ that the Crown owned the land under the where else in the world are to be found. water; that it was not private property. Many practical men work in the hard­ The council was just about ready to call wood forests on the North Coast. The tenders for the work that would have made Forestry Department has become a huge this area available to the people of the monopoly, controls most of the timber district when it received from the Minister produced in this State, a.nd is largely re­ for Lands a further letter saying that the sponsible for the present high cost of Department of Mines had received appli­ production. Most of the practical tim­ cations to mine for rutile in the area and ber workers have been in the industry all that this would halt the council's plans. their lives and it is a crying shame to see This is the situation after forty years of young men, known as "Canberra students", negotiations! coming along and pushing aroru1d the prac­ River-bank erosion on the North Coast tical men. It is akin to a jackaroo telling is of vital concern to all residents there. a grazier how to run his property. When I was a young fellow I drove a butcher's cart along roads that followed the I listened with keen interest to the views water's edge. The rivers alongside these of hon. members on delinquent children. All hon. members agree that delinquent roads were deep enough for boats and the children come from rich as well as from banks were high and solid. Those roads poor families and the Department of Edu­ have disappeared now, the banks are eroded away, and the water in the rivers has be­ cation is partly responsible for the growth come shallow. More positive action is of child delinquency in this State. The needed to combat river-bank erosion, which department's main concern should be to see causes tremendous losses. The Hon. J. L. Kenny.] Appropriation Bill. [10OCT.,1956.J Appropriation Bill. 2907

A great cry went up not long ago when though it travels 700 miles farther, is only the subsidy was taken off milk, but it must 5s. a hundred feet more than the freight be realised that some dairy farmers have on the Sydney lot. The big corporations good properties and others have bad ones. that are handling rutile are not in need The subsidy applied equally to the man of special consideration. They remind me with rich pastures near the river and to th·e of the shopkeeper who bought cabbages for man farming on scrub country in the hilis. ls. and sold them for 2s. and said that he I consider that the Government should sub­ was making a profit of only 1 per cent. I sidise the milk production only of dairy bring the question of the freight rates on farmers on second-class farms. These men their commodities to the attention of the have to spend a lot of money on pasture Government so that something can be done improvement, fertiliser and other expensive about them. aids to production. For them a subsidy is As the Government is financially em­ warranted. barrassed I ask it to consider whether it The Country party is supposed to favour would not be wise to nationalise the rutile decentralisation but I do not know whether industry at this early stage of its develop­ in fact it does so. Certainly its members ment in New South Wales. Hundreds of are not active about it and I am surprised applications to mine for rutile remain un­ that none of the members of the Legis­ answered. I became interested in one such lative Assembly who represent North Coast application about three years ago but I areas has raised the matter of the Grafton have heard nothing about its approval or Brewery, a decentralised industry. If one rejection. The Government should asks for a bottle of Grafton beer at any nationalise the rutile industry while it is railway station on the North Coast, it can­ still in its infancy or else put practical not be obtained. The Grafton Brewery is men in charge of it so that it will advance the local brewery yet the beer sold on local rapidly. In Queensland an applicant to railway stations comes all the way from mine for rutile knows within a couple of Sydney. weeks where he stands but in New South Wales he may wait for any length of time. At harbours along the North Coast I thank the House for the manner in which millions of pounds have been spent on it has listened to my maiden speech. works that lie unfinished. Sea carriage is Perhaps hon. members thought they would said to be cheaper than any other but it hear from me some of the jawbreakers that cannot be used more until these works are other hon. members use or the oratory of completed. I should like to see more action a Dick Meagher and I hope that they do in this respect. I am concerned also about not feel disappointed. Perhaps as my ex­ the difference in railway freights on various perience in this Chamber grows I shall commodities produced on the North Coast. become more practised in speaking here. For example, rutile is carried to Sydney for £3 6s. a ton. This is part of its jour­ The Hon. E. L. SOM:M:ERLAD [8.7] : I ney to America, where it is sold for £160 express congratulations to the Hon. J. L. a ton. Fishermen who send their catch Kenny on his maiden speech in this Cham­ from Kendall railway station to Sydney ber. I am sure that all hon. members are must pay £7 a ton. I realise that the fish conscious of the tremendous natural go by fast train and the rutile by slow resources of the North Coast and the Hon. train but the difference in the freight rates J. L. Kenny can be certain that hon. mem­ on these two commodities should be ex­ bers on my side of the Chamber will give examined and rectified. This is an anomaly him every support in any action that he that needs to be overcome. The freight on might propose for the development of those timber also presents some surprising fea­ resources. vV e look forward to further tures. The same owner may despatch two speeches by the hon. member. Early this lots of the same timber cut at the same year I visited the United States of mill from the North Coast-one lot to America, where I took the opportunity of Sydney and one to Broken Hill. The making some inquiries into transport mat­ freight on the consignment to Broken Hill, ters and in particular into toll roads, which 2908 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill.

are of topical interest in Australia to-day. The Hon. R. S. JACKSON: There is only­ I should like to give the House the result one tram service in the United States of of the inquiry and some calculations I America, that is in San Francisco. have in regard to toll-road construction. The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD: There I found in the United States of America are trams in Los Angeles, operated by a a general recognition of the principle that driver who also collects the fares. services should be paid for by the user. I drove a motor car from New York to Wash­ The Hon. R. S. JACKSON: That is so; ington. First I went through the Lincoln there is one tram service in San Francisco Tunnel under the Hudson River,. and paid and one in Los Angeles. a toll for the use of the tunnel. Then I The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD: I am travelled along the New Jersey turnpike, for which I paid another toll. Next I happy to confine my comments to buses, crossed the Delaware River Bridge, for which are the normal means of transport in which I paid a third toll. The motorist New York, Washington, Chicago and other in America seemed to offer no objection to big cities in that country. The common paying one toll after another. A service practice is for the driver to collect the fares must be paid for and the user is willing as the passengers enter the vehicle. No to meet the charge. I must comment on doubt it will be said that if drivers collected that principle in its relationship to our fares in a busy city such as Sydney, the metropolitan transport services. Ample inability to keep the buses moving would publicity has been given to the deficit of add to the congestion. There is plenty of about £4,000,000 that was incurred on traffic and much congestion in the American metropolitan transport services last year cities bµt they have kept the one-man and charged to consolidated revenue. As buses moving by speeding up the move­ a consequence every taxpayer in the State ment of passengers into them. They col­ contributed to subsidising the losses on lect a flat-rate fare, instead of various fares the Sydney trams and buses. This is an for different sections, whether the passen­ unfair distribution of the burden of the ger travels for one block or ten blocks, and cost of those services. The suburban train no tickets are issued. The flat rate fares travellers no doubt pay to the full for the in American buses vary from 15 cents to portion of the metropolitan transport 25 cents for each passenger. A cent is close system that they use. Yet, in addition, they enough to a penny, so that the flat rate are called upon to subsidise tram and bus fare is quite substantial, yet it keeps the services. Worst off are the country people, transport services busy and they pay. An­ because that half of the population of the other device used to keep passengers mov­ State does not use the buses or trams which, ing is a cdin-sorting machine installed through taxation, it subsidises. beside the driver. The passenger entering the bus tosses his coins into this device, The Government received a great deal where they are automatically sorted i!lto of criticism when it increased tram and bus fares in Sydney and Newcastle. How­ their denominations. I refer to these €ver, I would agree to that increase if methods of speeding up the movement of there were no other way to ma.ke the trams passengers into buses on one-Il'.lan services and buses pay. Other than raising fares, because th~ only way our transport services the only thing to do is to reduce costs. can be made to pay is to reduce the man­ In this connection the Government l;n­ hours worked instead of spending nearly doubtedly did the right thing by insisting all the fare collections on collecting those on the introduction of one-man buses on fares. The manpower on 'trams and buses ·some routes. I noti~ed with interest in all must be reduced, and the extension of the the big cities that I visited in the United one-man bus system should be carefully States of America, that one-man buses, and examined by the Minister for Transport. -even one-man trams where trams are used, I appreciate that it requires a long-term were the order of the day. policy, because the design of vehicles must The Hon. E. L. Sommerlad.] Appropriation Bill. po OcT., 1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2909 be considered. However, I sincerely suggest many good, surfaced, well-graded roads to that the system in the United States of carry normal traffic. In fact, 64 per cent. America warrants examination. of all roads in that country are surfaced, compared with only 30 per cent. in Aus­ All hon. members know that Australia tralia. Congestion is undoubtedly a prob­ is in desperate need of improved roads of lem in our city and near-city areas, but all types. It has been suggested that toll it is not our real problem on the country roads may be the answer. I want to ex­ roads and main highways. The traffic con­ amine whether, in view of Australian con­ gestion within the city of Sydney is worse ditions and in the light of the success than any I saw on my world trip. of some toll roads in the United States of America, they are likely to solve our road The Hon. J. D. KEKNY: Did the hon. problem. I have mentioned that I travelled member visit Boston? on the New Jersey turnpike on the way from New York to Washington. That mag­ The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD: I saw nificent concrete highway carries four lanes the outskirts of Boston, where toll roads of traffic each way and has a central island and expressways are being constructed. separating the two directions of traffic. The Hon. J. D. KENNY: Right in the Traffic moves along it at a maximum speed heart of the city of Boston? of 60 miles an hour, but that is almost the minimum speed also. A car is virtually The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD: No, I dicl carried along in a stream of traffic at 60 not. Our traffic problem is not congestion; miles an hour. You cannot stop or turn or the handling of a great volume of traffic round. There are few accidents, but some on our highways. Rather, it is to provide that do occur become chain crashes involv­ roads of grades, curves and surfaces that ing twenty or thirty cars. A characteristic w.ill take modern vehicles and heavy trans­ of all toll roads is that there is no cross ports. We need developmental roads to traffic. All traffic from side roads is car­ aid decentralisation, more than a four-lane ried over the turnpike by an overhead speed track from Sydney to Melbourne. We bridge or under it by a subway. One can essentially need good cross-country roads join or depart from a turnpike only by one to serve the inland of the State. A mistake of the few exits or entrances, each with a was made in planning the State's railway toll gate, scattered at 10- or 20-mile inter­ system by having all railways lead to vals along the highway. I drove along this Sydney. We do not want to repeat in our 120-mile turnpike for 1 dollar 75 cenfs, highway construction programme the mis­ which is near enough to 15s. take of having all the big, important imd well constructed highways leading to the The Hon. R. S. JACKSON: That is 15s. cities. each way? Our highway system should not simply The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD: Yes. As duplicate existing rail services, which well as being a magnificent road catering are capable of being used effectively for fast traffic it is a financial success. I and profitably if the authorities go about wish now to examine whether that sort of it in the right way. Higher priorities. road is needed in Australi~ and whether should be granted to the building of the turnpikes would help to solve this coun­ long-promised highway from the Northern. try's characteristic problems, which may Tablelands to Grafton in order to link not be encountered in the United the North-west, the Northern Tablelands States of America. Fundamental differences and the North Coast. Of course some· between that country and Australia indi­ minor :work has been done on this cate that a toll road is not the answer project. Such highway projects should have· at our stage of development. In the United a higher priority than the construction of States of America toll roads are being con­ structed for two purposes: either to relieve a four-lane highway from Sydney to Mel­ traffic congestion or to permit higher speeds. bourne. Similarly, good roads are needed· Already the United States of America has from the Riverina. to the South Coast and. 2910 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Avpropriation Bill.

along the South Coast where a rail ser­ when the goods arrive in Melbourne, for vice is not provided. The Government they must be transferred to a truck and should concentrate its activities on then delivered to their destination. The the building of major highways in areas that mechanical handling of rail freights at are not served by the railways. Much pub­ the railway loading centres should be licity has been given to the bad state of improved. Here again a lesson may the Hume Highway, the delays and the be learned from the United States of complete stoppages of traffic on that high­ America, where mechanical loading devices way. It is deplorable that a main highway have been developed. A system of transfer­ should be in such a condition. The pub­ ring loaded road trailers intact on to rail­ licity given the Hume Highway leads one way trucks has been developed. The same to overlook the condition of other roads could be done here. The complete load a few hundred miles inland. Some that are could be transferred mechanically from one called highways become impassable when rail truck to another at any break of gauge, half an inch of rain falls. I refer particu­ and at the city of destination the road larly to roads in the vicinity of Hay. trailer could be towed to the point of delivery. The scheme is practical. It The Minister for Highways has said that has been put into effect in the United States a plan has been completed for the expendi­ of America. There is no denying that roads ture of about £350,000,000 on national high­ between Sydney and Melbourne, parti­ ways linking the capital cities. Good roads cularly the Hume Highway, are not satis­ between the capitals and elsewhere are neces­ factory. I should like now to examine the sary, but it is not an economic proposition practical aspect of the construction of a to spend so much money on inter-capital toll road from Sydney to Melbourne, as highways when alternative methods of has been proposed. The question is whether transport are already in existence. I refer it is an economic proposition to build a particularly, of course, to sea and rail road of that type. transport. All the Australian capital cities are on the seaboard and have g-ood ports. The Hon. J. J. MALOKEY: Has the hon. Ships do not need highways and need no member considered the constitutional road maintenance expenditure-no bitu­ aspect? men-surfacing and grading of roads, no bridges or other such works. Certainly The Hon. E. L. SOMMER.LAD: I shall not go into those questions. For the pur­ coastal shipping from city to city should pose of my argument I am assuming that give the most economical transport for big there is no problem in that direction. The loads such as car bodies, which are now question is whether a toll road would prove brought by road from Adelaide to Sydney. There is something wrong with our trans­ an economic proposition. The one essential port system when everyone overlooks the for the success of a toll road is a high traffic great natural advantage of sea traffic from density. A large number of vehicles must use the road to make it pay. I shall show Adelaide to Sydney, but instead requires to what extent this has been done success­ road traffic to travel a distance of more fully in the United States of America. Let than 1,000 miles. , us first mention the big differences between The rail links between the capital cities the United States of America and Aus­ could be used more effectively to carry tralia. These countries are comparable in freight and to relieve the burden on the area, but Australia has three people to the roads. I recognise that one of the big square mile, and America fifty. Australia problems in transporting freight hy rail is has 2,267,000 registered vehicles of all handling. At a factory in Sydney the goods types, compared with 61,344,000 in the have to be loaded on a truck, which travels United States of America. For every to Darling Harbour, waits its turn and trans­ vehicle on the roads in Australia, twenty­ fers its load to a railway truck. At Albury the freight must be handled again, as it is five run on the roads in America. Aus­ transferred to railway trucks on the Vic­ tralian roads have three vehicles to every torian gauge. Further handling is required mile of road, good, bad, or indifferent; roads The Hon. E. L. So1nmerlad.] .Appropriation Hill. [10OcT.,1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2911 in the United States of America have traffic figures for that road but I estimate :Seventeen. Comments have been made in that at least 50,000 vehicles use it each day. the press and elsewhere that toll roads are That number of vehicles is about the the order of the day in the United States. same as the number crossing the Sydney Examining the position a little more Harbour Bridge. closely, one finds only two thousand miles The Department of Main Roads is in -0f completed turnpike roads operating in possession of automatic devices for checking that country. the number of vehicles that use the major The Hon. R. S. JAOKSON: That is in the highways in New South Wales and has northern part of the Uriited States. advised that the average daily number of vehicles using the Hume Highway in both The Hon. E. L. SOMMERL.AD: I am directions between Camden and Bowning, referring to all major toll roads. There a good average section of the highway, is are only two thousand miles in use. This, 2,005. The average daily number of of course, is only a fraction of the vehicles using the New England Highway total road mileage. Several thousand between Singleton and Tenterfield is 1,140. miles of toll roads are either at the plan­ I shall now deal with construction and ning stage or in course of construction. operating costs and endeavour to estimate However, I was interested to learn that the toll necessary to make the construction last year three thousand miles of projected of a road between Sydney and Melbourne toll roads were either postponed or can­ a paying proposition. Toll roads are much celled, for the reason that quite a num­ more costly than ordinary roads as there ber of the toll roads already constructed must be a controlled access. If a vehicle are in financial difficulties. It is evident is able to join a toll road whenever the that they are not all paying propositions. driver wishes, he is able to dodge the toll The only two-lane turnpike road in the barriers. Toll can be collected from all United States is that in West Virginia. vehicles only by the provision of a toll All other turnpike roads have four, six, gate at all points where access may be or eight lanes. The West Virginian turn­ gained to the road. To achieve this, pike is carrying only half the traffic esti­ all cross traffic has to be taken over or mated as necessary to meet operating and under the toll road, resulting in a substan­ repayment costs. tial increase in cost of construction. The One of the latest to be constructed was Department of Main Roads estimates that the Ohio turnpike, which is 241 miles long. the construction of a closed access highway When it was planned it was expected that would cost half as much again as 40,000 vehicles would use it each day. A that of an ordinary road. Also, the toll was fixed of 25s. for cars and up to £12 operating costs are high. Every toll gate for large trucks. When the road was has to be manned twenty-four hours a day. opened only half the expected traffic used On such a road between Sydney and Mel­ it, and the operators are in financial diffi­ bourne access would be needed at least every culty. One of the most successful turn­ 20 or 30 miles. That means that a total pikes is the Pennsylvanian, which is 327 of at least twenty toll gates would need to miles long. It imposes a toll of 3 dollars for be manned twenty-four hours a day to col­ cars and 20 dollars for trucks. The average lect the toll. daily traffic on that road is 8,000 vehicles. The estimate for the construction of a The Maine turnpike has a traffic density toll road in the United States is $1,000,000 of 6',000 vehicles a day and a free road a mile. The figure of £500,000,000 recently runs alongside it. Users of the free road estimated by the Utah Construction Com­ cannot travel at the high speed as on the pany for the building of a toll road from toll road but the motorist has his choice. Sydney to Brisbane was based on American Six thousand motorists use the toll road costs. The Department of Main Roads con­ 3.nd about 6,000 the free road daily. I siders that· a four-lane concrete highway mentioned the New Jersey turnpike upon could be constr~cted in Australia at a cost which I travelled. I cannot give the official of £115,000 a mile. Adding 50 per cent. 2912 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill.

to that estimate because of the hig·her It is not practicable to make the only­ cost of building a toll road, and allowing road through an area a· toll road. Free­ for necessary resumptions if a four-lane roads must still be provided and kept in closed access road were built from Sydney good repair. Much traffic would use these­ to Melbourne, its construction would cost alternative roads so the total number 0£ at least £10-0,000,000. That figure is about vehicles using a toll road between Sydney one-third of the American estimate, so and Melbourne would be substantially le&: it cannot be said that I am over-estimating. than the present traffic density on the main A road is a depreciating asset. If it does highway. I estimate that even if the to1l not wear out in twenty years, experience charge were £50 or £60 for heavy trucks, it has shown that it becomes obsolete. A would still be necessary to charge from £15 road does not last so long as a dam, a school to £20 for a private motor car on a journey building, a railway or other national assets between Sydney and Melbourne. The den­ that are financed by loan funds. The sity of traffic on the road from Sydney to· United States of America has adopted the Brisbane is less than that between Sydney principle that the capital cost of a toll road and Melbourne, so a toll road to the north should be written .off after fifteen, twenty would demand a substantially higher toll­ or twenty-five years. If the road from probably almost double the toll on ihe­ Sydney to Melbourne cost £100,000,000, Melbourne road. The only stretch of road £5,000,000 a year would have to be paid in Australia of which I am aware--and in interest. If the road had to be written certainly the only one in New South Wales off after twenty years, £5,000,000 a year -on which the traffic density is sufficient would be needed as a sinking fund. In to make a toll road feasible is that between addition, there are operating costs, con­ Sydney and Newcastle. Vehicles using· sisting of maintenance, cost of toll collec­ this road number 6,000 a day in winter and tion, road patrols, and administration. In 10,000 in summer. This is about the Bame an endeavour to estimate the ~mount of traffic density as on the Pennsylvania turn­ those charges I studied the operation of the pike. On present traffic densities a toll Pennsylvanian turnpike. road from Sydney to Newcastle would be a practicable proposition. As I said before, it is 327 miles long, and exclusive of interest and sinking fund it The Hon. R. R. DOWNING: Is the traffic costs £2,000,000 a year to operate, maintain on that road heavier than on the Hume and collect toll. The road from Sydney to Highway? Melbourne would be twice the length of The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD: The the Pennsylvanian turnpike but would not density on the Hume Highway is 2.000 have _such a high traffic density, which vehicles a day. This check was made be­ would mean that the maintenance costs tween Camden and Bowning and is an offi­ would be lower. For the proposed Sydney­ cial count. The official count betwe~n Melbourne road I estimate that the operat­ Sydney and Newcastle is 6,000 in winte::: ing cost would be at the least £500,000 a and 10,000 in summer. year, in all probability more. That is only a quarter of the operating cost of the The Hon. R. R. DOWNING: And where Pennsylvanian turnpike. Taking into was that count taken? account interest and redemption payments, The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD: I do and operating costs, if every one of the not know. A toll road from Sydney to 2,000 vehicles continued to use the Sydney­ Newcastle would present serious engineer­ Melbourne highway, the average toll for ing problems. The present road has diffi­ each vehicle between Sydney and Melbourne cult grades and curves and many bridge& would be £15. Many of those 2,000 vehicles and the cost of construction of a road to that pass the check points are only local proper specifications for a toll road would traffic, and rather than use the toll road he enormously high. for a comparatively short

The Hon. E. L. SOMMERLAD : Probably hundreds of millions of pounds. Here it would go to Newcastle by the back way. again I suggest that the United States of Despite the heavy traffic density that might America's example in financing roads be ex­ be expected, a heavy toll would be required amined. Recently the Congress of the to make a Sydney-Newcastle turnpike a United States of America approved a huge payable proposition. It should be borne in national highway scheme of which the cost mind that none of the toll roads in the was astronomical. It ran to thousands of United States of America is operated by millions of dollars. private enterprise. Certainly they were · It is proposed to build coast to coast built by private contractors but they are roads of appropriate standard, not on the not controlled by private organisations. toll road system but by the issue of Gov­ Incidentally, construction of roads by <'On­ ernment bonds for the specific purpose of tractors is a system that might with ad­ meeting the capital cost. Interest charges vantage be followed more in this country. and the cost of redemption of bonds are to The toll roads in the United States of be met from motor taxes. The capital <'Ost America are operated by semi-government of an adequate road system in Australia is instrumentalities like the Metropolitan beyond the capacity of ordinary taxation. Water, Sewerage and Drainage Board or the If capital cannot be raised internally we Sydney County Council in this State. They should try to find· it externally. The cost are not run for profit, or built out of of interest and redemption after twenty the funds that are ordinarily available years, I suggest, might properly be for capital investment in private enter­ collected from motorists. They are al­ prise companies. They are financed ready paying huge sums in taxation by the issue of bonds for the specific pur­ and feel, with considerable justifica­ pose of building toll roads. Interest is tion, that they are entitled to have all of paid on the bonds and they are redeemed it spent on roads. At present they are not after, say, a twenty-year term. It is im­ getting the road facilities commensurate portant to bear this in mind when C'On­ with the taxes they pay. Registration and sidering the practicability of toll roads in licence fees throughout Australia total Australia. £28,00G,OO a year and £13,000,000 a year is It is unlikely that private capital would collected in petrol tax. Undoubtedly all be available for this purpose in the quan­ taxes levied on motorists should go to road tities required and if the United States maintenance and improvement. I..ong dis­ system of issuing bonds were fol­ tance road hauliers should pay a heavy regis­ lowed here the money raised would still tration fee until some other appropriate come out of the general pool of community means is found for taxing interstate hauliers savings available for investment in public equitably. Many of these hauliers use diesel loans. If money were taken from available fuel which I suggest should carry a tax funds for toll roads it would not be avail­ similar to petrol tax. It should be noted that able for something else. I am satisfied that petrol tax in the United States of America if the building of a toll road were attempted is substantial, though not so heavy in pro­ in Australia with prevailing traffic densi­ portion to the cost of petrol as in Australia. ties, the financial difficulties experienced That tax is collected by both State and by some of the American toll road authori­ Federal administrations. Each sale carries ties because the traffic density was not so two separate taxes, and these provide the great as expected would soon be evident. If great part of the revenue for roads. not toll roads, then what~ This country No motorist, and I am included among has a serious road problem that must he them, wishes to pay more petrol tax, but I see solved and finance for roads must be ob­ tained somewhere. Australia's problem is no other way of obtaining the monev to nro­ not only the provision of good highways vide an improved road system. Eve;y pe~ny between capital cities, but also the essential of the tax should go to the road provision of developmental roads to aid construction programme. Motorists in Syd­ decentralisation. These works would cost ney and Newcastle pay 3s. 8~d. a gallon for 183 2914 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill. standard-grade petrol. They are not too :Mention has already been made in this badly off compared with road-users in the debate of the fact that in the United States United Kingdom who pay 4s. 6d. sterling a free enterprise railway carrier is com­ a gallon. Although we in Sydney pelled to make certain charges though be pay 3s. 81d. a gallon, in Tamworth the might want to charge reduced rates. This price is 4s. 4d., and in Bourke, 4s. 6~d. is because of the operation of the Inter­ I have always believed that petrol should state Commerce Commission, which regu­ be a uniform price throughout the State. lates the whole of the national transport I know that this suggestion presents diffi­ activities by sea, rail, road, and air, to en­ culties, but two birds could be killed with sure that the best use is made of the one stone by providing for a uniform price facilities offering. It is all very well to and a sliding· rate of tax. A price may be say that some Australian railway lines do settled of 4s., 4s. ld., or 4s. 2d. a gallon, not pay, that they should be scrapped and which would apply throughout the State, road transport used. Australia is still at a with the amount of tax high on the sea­ stage of development in which it is trying board and graduall.Y disappearing as one to foster new industries and to increase its proceeds inland. small population. In these circumstances it is not economic to scrap a railway and Finally, as a contribution to the whole build an expensive road in its stead. transport problem, I advocate the setting The problem is one of co-ordination. up of an interstate transport commission, Australia has seaways, railways and road­ not only to co-ordinate road construction w.ays. It has a need for new, bigger, and programmes between the various States, better roads and it would be the function but also to plan more effective use of our of the commission that I have suggested sea, road, rail and air transport systems. to co-ordinate the services and make best Once again I draw an example from the use of the resources that we have. United States of America. That country has the same type of governmental organi­ The Hon. J. J. :MALONEY (:Minister sation as we have-a Federal government for Labour and Industry) [8.56]: I compli­ and a number of States. It has the same ment the Hon. J. L. Kenny on bis maiden sort of problem as ours in trying to achieve ·speech in this Chamber, and look forward a co-ordinated policy. The United States to hearing his contribution to other debates. of America has an Interstate Commerce I compliment the Hon. A. D. Bridges upon Commission, which performs the co­ his speech. As usual, he marshalled his ordination job that I advocate here. facts thoroughly. Though at times he is The United States Congress more than half off the beaten track, he presents an im­ a century ago passed an Act to regulate pressive case. It is significant that the in­ commerce, and it is interesting to note the formation used by the hon. member in pre­ national transportation policy that is laid senting his analysis of the financial position down in that legislation, which was brought of the State was gained through the normal channels of the Auditor-General's report up to date as late as 1940. The national and other publications. Whatever happens transportation policy of the United States with the finances of New South Wales is is to provide for fair and impartial regula­ an open book for all to study, so that they tion of all modes of transportation so as can criticise constructively or destructively to recognise and preserve the inherent ad­ as the,y think fit. That is one of the vantages of each; to co-operate with the features of the affairs of this State: no matter how bad any section of its under­ several States all to the end of takings may become it is open to inspection developing, co-ordinating and preserv­ by any member of the public or any parlia­ ing the national transportation system mentarian. Apart from his analysis of the by water, highway, and rail, as well State's finances, the hon. member devoted as other means, adequate to meet the considerable time to the basic wage problem needs of commerce of the United States and to production. A feature of his speech and of national defence. that disturbed me was that those who do The Hon. E. L. Sommerlad.] Appropriation Bill. [10 OCT., 1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2915 not know him might think that he has not year by 17s. or 18s. a week the Govern­ much confidence in this country. He quoted ment may need to find many more millions figures from other countries to show that of pounds. I have no doubt that if they have progressed far more than Aus­ costs rise to the extent rumoured, the hon. tralia has and that this country is lacking member's analysis is perfectly correct. in various respects. His was not a However, I am not yet sure that it will fair comparison. No country has achieved rise as much as the hon. member seems the remarkable development of .Australia to think, and I think no-one can be sure in her short history. I have every con­ of it. It is true that shortly the "C" fidence in this country and in all aspects Series index figures will show whether an of its economy to cope with these troub­ increase in the basic wage is necessary. lous times that arise from time to time, However, the . only solution that waf provided that we maintain our confidence placed before the Premiers of the respective and keep our feet on the ground. States by the Acting Prime Minister was The basic wage has been a play-ball of pub­ that the basic wage should be pegged. It lic comment for a considerable time, and it was said that this would restore economic is significant that since the New South equilibrium. '~ales Government reintroduced quar­ The Hon. H. D. AHERN: What does terly basic wage adjustments, its policy "economic equilibrium" mean? in this regard has been subjected to

It is most significant that in all the in­ to help it in its determination. However, formation placed before the conference the court itself in 1921 recognised that the no suggestion was made of any remedy standard that had been determined by Mr. other than that the States that were con­ Justice Higgins should, if at all possible, tinuing to permit quarterly adjustments of be maintained for the benefit of the worker. the basic wage should refrain from doing For the first time it introduced the com­ so. Now another conference is to be called. pulsory quarterly adjustment of the basic At the former conference it was pointed wage, though a couple of organisations were out that the basic wage no longer bas its voluntarily using the system. The follow­ earlier significance; that the court in its ing year the same court, recognising that 1950 judgment bad departed from the for­ the worker in receipt of the basic wage was mer principle of fixing the basic wage and not keeping pace with the increases bad adopted a new principle of the capacity that the statistician's figures showed had of industry to pay. The court in 1953 said occurred in the cost of living, added what "That is the principle upon which your is known as the "Powers 3s.", which was basic wage is now assessed ... irrespective the amount that Mr. Justice Powers of what happened before 1953." The argu­ assessed to compensate the workt::r for the ment used against this State when our rise in prices before the cost-of-living representatives went to Canberra was that adjustment took place. That principle con­ the court bas adopted a new economic tinued to o:i:erate without alteration until principle. the depression. No one bas argued against the prin­ During the depression an application was ciple of the capacity of industry to pay; made to ·the court by the employers for a it is not a new principle. The very first reduction in the wage rate. The court basic wage assessment in this country granted an all-round reduction of 10 per made by Mr. Justice Higgins in 1907, cent. All hon. members are familiar with though it was not based entirely on that the parlous economic conditions in those principle, bad more relation to it than to times. It was not a 10 per cent. reduction the principle of assessing the wage for a in the basic wage but a 10 per cent. reduc­ family unit. Mr. Justice Higgins deter­ tion in every item, including margina, in mined as a basic wage the least amount the total wage of the worker. Not until that a labourer could be expected to live 1934 did the court shift from that 10 per on in a civilised community, and his basic cent. reduction. It brought about the "C" wage continued until 1913. In 1912 the Series index and restored the basic· wage, Commonwealth Statistician devised a set as it said. What the court did in fact of figures for no purpose other than to was to revert to the old Harvester formula measure the fluctuations of the prices of minus the 10 per cent. reduction on mar­ certain commodities. In 1913 the Com­ gins and other loadings, and minus the monwealth court bad the statistician relate Powers 3s. also. As the worker suffered these figures to the 1907 judgment of Mr. a reduction in the basic wage when the Justice Higgins and determined what are cost of living fell, the court did not inter­ known as the "A" Series figures. From fere with quarterly adjustments: rather that time the court bas emphasised that the basic wage is not a wage for a family unit did it applaud and say that they had been but a: sum based upon the capacity of a means of adjusting the basic wage from industry to pay. time to time in accordance with fluctua­ Until 1921 no quarterly adjustments tions in the cost of living. In effect the were provided. No adjustments were made worker's standard of living bad not materi­ other than amounts determined by agree­ ally altered from the standard laid down in ment, or when awards were considered by the Harvester judgment of 1907. the- court. Adjustments were made volun­ tarily on a yearly basis, or upon the making In 1937 the arbitration court was again of a new award. Figures relating to the asked to alter the basic wage. On no occa­ issue involved were presented to the court sion has anyone been able to submit to The Hon. J. J. Maloney.] Appropriation Bill. [10 OcT., 1956.] Appropriation Bill. 2917

the court a more reliable method of assess­ It should be remembered that between ing the movement of the price of commodi­ February, 1942, and 1947 very little change ties than an analysis of the Commonwealth took place throughout Australi·a in wage · Statistician's £gures. In 1937 the court rates. During the economic crisis of 1929, said there was no justi£cation for altering 1930 and 1931 there had been a general 10 the basic wage. However, as the prosperity per cent. reduction of the basic wage, and of the country had improved slightly the in New South Wales it was reduced by court granted an increase, known as a pros­ 12s. 6d. in one fell swoop. The salaries perity loading, ranging from 4s. to 6s. of public servants dropped by as much as according to different districts and differ­ 25 per cent. In 1942 the entire wage struc­ ent States. That increase was added, but ture was frozen throughout the Common­ did not become part of the basic wage. It wealth. The only way in which an increase was a non-adjustable loading. The basic in wages could be obtained was by proving wage remained adjustable. The new rate an anomaly. In 1947 the war-time regula­ became known as the needs basic wage for tions went by the board and wage freezing purposes of distinction only. In 1939 the was lifted. During the war years everyone arbitration court was approached for an in Australia was quite willing to do his increase in the basic wage and it recog­ bit to build up the economy. Manpower nised that the people were living in an was directed, and production of luxury age of rising costs. The Powers 3s. allow­ goods stopped. Costs were stabilised by ance had long since gone and the worker the operation of price-£xing throughout the was still well behind in receiving quarterly Commonwealth. adjustments. In recognition of that fact The Commonwealth Labor Government the court decided to bring the adjustment proposed to the people of Australia that forward by one month, which was the successful control of the national economy minimum time in which the Commonwealth in the post-war period demanded altera­ Statistician could prepare his £gures. In­ tion of the Federal Constitution. One stead of the basic wage being adjusted in of the changes suggested would have given March, June, September and December, the the Commonwealth Government full power court said that it would be adjusted in over all industrial matters. Who opposed February, May, August and November. that change~ The very people who are The next approach for a further increase to-day asserting that all industry should in the basic wage was made to the arbi­ be under Commonwealth jurisdiction! The tration court in 1946, when the £rst mis­ case against the referendum question was take, if any, was made in interference with drawn by the present Prime Minister and the basic wage. The court then decided his followers; the case for the referendum that an increase was justified. There is no was drawn by Dr. Evatt and his supporters. evidence to show that the Commonwealth The people were told in the case against Statistician's method of recording changes the granting of the power that the won- of price of commodities is incorrect and . derful benefits that had been granted to needs alteration. The commodities were them by the arbitration courts of this coun­ chosen not by the Commonwealth Statis­ try were the product of the frE;)edom of those tician but by a Commonwealth conference courts. Among the bene£ts described of statisticians. In 1946, instead of adding to the people in that case against the a non-adjustable loading, the court decided referendum was quarterly adjustment of to increase the basic wage by 7s. The needs the basic wage. This happened in 1946, which is not long ago. Quarterly adjust­ basic wage then became regulated by the ment of the basic wage was used as an argu­ movement of prices contained in the Com­ ment then by the people who now want monwealth Statistician's "C" Series index, Parliament to interfere with wage-fixing plus the 7s. increase which was also adjust­ authorities. The irony of the situation is able. The Commonwealth Statistician was that of all the governments that attended directed by the court to take into considera­ a conference at Canberra, only one has no tion the 7s. in his cost-of-living £gures. power whatever to tell arbitration courts 2918 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] A pp1·opriation Bill.

what to do. That is the Commonwealth his decision was reserved the Common­ Government itself, and it is asking all the wealth court issued a dictum that concilia­ States to sacrifice their powers ~n the altar tion commissioners should not alter the of the Commonwealth Court of Concilia­ wage-rate structure at all while it was tion and .Arbitration. conside~ing the basic wage. The basic wage case that it mentioned began as far back The Hon. E. E. WARREN: This State's as 1940 and was not finished until 1950. Government has sacrificed plenty of other Commissioner Galvin gave no judgment powers. in the metal trades case, and the court The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: It has after hearing the basic wage case for ten probably sacrificed too many. In the Com­ years decided that justification for an in­ monwealth industrial jurisdiction wages crease existed. In November, 1950, it were pegged until 1947. In that jurisdic­ increased the basic wage by £1 a week. tion the metal trades award sets the pat­ In a second judgment it converted the tern for most other awards. Until 1947 loadings that were then current as no change had been made in the rates prosperity loadings into a uniform 5s. load­ under that award, except to rectify anoma­ ing, added that to the other £1 a week in­ lies.· One of the conciliation commissioners crease and, completely disregarding all operating about that time ratified an agree­ previous practice, pumped the lot into the ment between the employers in the metal basic wage. The court went even further industry and the unions for an increase and added it to the 7s. and made the whole in wages. The biggest increase was about basic wage adjustable. 12s. a week, and the rises ranged down­ In 1950 it said that it was establishing wards through every section of the indus­ a new basis for the basic wage--the capacity try. That ratification was taken to the of industry to pay-and neglected entirely court on appeal, when the court disregarded all previous judgments. It made no at­ what it described as the Mooney formula tempt then to suspend adjustments of the and introduced one of its own. Under its basic wage. It did not decide in 1950, formula the increases for the lower-paid when it pumped an extra 32s. into the employees were cut down and those for adjustable basic wage, that quarterly adjust­ the higher-paid employees were raised. ments should cease. When the unions Whether the court was justified is beside made an application for a further increase the point. The important thing is that it and the employers countered with an appli­ evolved another formula. Then a judge cation for a decrease and the suspension heard the printing trade case and intro­ of quarterly adjustments, the court again duced yet another formula for that emphasised the principal of the capacity industry. At this stage a number of con­ of industry to pay and suspended quarterly ciliation commissioners were appointed; adjustments. It said that this suspension formerly there were only two. or cessation of quarterly adjustments would The metal. trades case came before Com­ stop the inflationary spiral and rehabili­ missioner Mooney again and he restored tate the nation's economy. This was the the rates that had been cut down by the court's own theory-not the view of the court. The court then said that the unions or of any government. All govern­ ments were represented at the hearing in economy of the industry could not stand the Commonwealth court, but none put for­ the increases that he had included in his ward any suggestion of the sort that the award, and this was the only reason it gave court made. Indeed, it made its findings for altering them. At the same time wages about the national economy in opposition in New South Wales were pegged. Then to the governments appearing before it. In the Commonwealth court came into the September, 1953, the court based its deci­ picture again. Commissioner Galvin, hav­ sion that it said would stabilise the ing spent two years in hearing evidence economy on the capacity of industry to pay, in a metal trades case, heard the final without any regard whatev~r to the Har­ addresses and reserved his decision. While vester basic wage. Appropriation Bill. [10 OcT., 1956.j Appropriation Bill. 2919

After the court said in September, 1953, £1 12s. which, if analysed to-day, is worth that the economy could not stand periodic £2 16s. Hon. members should remember basic-wage adjustments and that it was when they speak of basic wage adjustments necessary to stabilise the economy, in Nov­ that throughout all industries in which ember, 1954, when an application was be­ awards were determined by the Common­ fore it by the metal trades employees for wealth Court of Concilition and Arbitra­ an increase in margins, the same court said tion and were affected by the two and a that it would increase margins by two and half times formula, the man who needs all a half times the 1937 :figure. It claimed the support that can be given him, the that there was a disparity between wages unskilled worker who is on .the lowest of skilled and semi-skilled tradesmen and possible wage, has had no increase in his those of unskilled workers, who had bene­ wages since 1947. Is the Government to fited at the expense of the skilled trades­ say to that man, "The cost of living has men. The court went to the trouble of increased by £x, but you are not to receive clearly stating that this was not to be any increase, and we will not give you regarded as a precedent for Common­ anything to compensate for it." Neither the wealth awards generally or for other courts Premier of this State nor the Premier of throughout the Commonwealth! It also any other State has adopted that attitude. said that it had no relationship to the cost­ Another significant feature is that of-living adjustments between 1937 and when the Commonwealth court froze 1954, when the unions had argued before it, the basic wage in 1953 the matter was con­ rightly or wrongly, that there had been sidered by the Industrial Commission of increases in the basic wage since 1937, which New South Wales, which decided that the was the last time the metal trades award wording of the legislation by which it was was determined by the court, and that these bound to act resulted in a consequent tremendous increases had depreciated the freezing of the basic wage in New South value of margins. Wales. The court said, "We do not recognise the The Hon. H. D. AHELL"\'": It did not stop automatic adjustment of margins in the lodging of appeals? accordance with cost-of-living increases, The Hon. J. J. :MALONEY: It did not but we will give you two and a half times stop appeals; but it was no use appealing the margin you had in 1937 ." The Hon. against the Act. The Industrial Com­ A. D. Bridges is clever at :figures; it would mission interpreted the Act as suspend­ not take him two minutes to calculate that ing adjustments to the basic wage, this represents almost to a fraction of a and there can be no appeal against penny the increase that would have taken the Act. It is open for employees place had the margins been increased pro­ to seek higher margins from the portionately to the cost of living increases court, and they have been doing this ever since 1937. The court thereupon broke since. It must be remembered that up to down the whole of the premise upon which 1937 the wages of workers in New South it had built its 1953 judgment regarding Wales and the general wage structure were the capacity of the economy to pay, and it determined by our own State tribunals, in­ threw into the bullring of industrial tri­ cluding the Wages Board, the Boards of bunals of Australia its two and a half Trade and the Industrial Commission. times judgment. Yet twelve months later Periodic adjustments were made to the it said, "No, we cannot interfere with the basic wage after inquiry. In 1937 there wage structure other than to give you was disparity between the Commonwealth 10s. a week. We could have and would have and State basic wages in Sydney, and in given you 18s. a week if it had not been for 1937 the Government decided that the Com­ the interference by the States with the mission no longer had the right to invest.i­ basic wage." The Commonwealth court gate and fix the basic wage. The Industrial pumped into the basic wage in that period Arbitration Act was amended in that year 2920 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill.

to take all power from the Industrial Com­ then reintroduced. In Queensland no in­ mission to deal with the basic wage, other structions have been given to the Industrial than to interpret decisions of the Common­ Court as to what it should do with the wealth court. basic wage. Queensland continued to ad­ Hon. members will recall that the only just the basic wage, as it always has done. time this provision was altered since J.937 Western Australia also always has deter­ . was in 1950, when the Government amended mined its own basic wage, and as recently the basic wage clauses of the Industrial as a few years ago South Australia fixed Arbitration Act to enable the Commission its basic wage. to ascertain what the Commonwealth court The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: And the meant by its basic wage judgment of Queensland wage is one of the lowest in October, 1950. It is as well that this was Australia. done, because the Commonwealth court's judgment was not sorted out until the end The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: That is so. of November, 1950. That masterpiece of The Hon. R. S. J ACKSO'N: And its cost a judgment was delivered by some of the of living is the lowest in Australia. judges who now sa:y, "vVe want uniformity of wage rates." The Commonwealth Gov­ The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: That is ernment has supported them in this. The true. Queensland had price control and judges claimed also that if there were not the basic wage was not pegged. South uniformity in the basic wage the economy Australia had a most rigorous form of would suffer. However, there is no uni­ price control over commodities falling formity in the Commonwealth basic wage. within the regimen and the basic wage also If in 1950 it fixed the basic wage on the was frozen in November, 1953. In Western economic capacity of industry to pay, why Australia the basic wage was pegged for did it fix at least eight different basic wages a period. The same happened in this State throughout Australia, one for each capital and Tasmania. Victoria had no price con­ city, one for five towns, one for thirty trol nor any pegged basic wage. Tasmania towns, and one for the Capital Territory, had a limited form of price control which with differences of up to £1 a week? was abolished when the basic wage was I suggest that the court did not deter­ again pegged. An analysis of the position mine any such thing. However, it has is most interesting. On the "0" Series realised since 1950 the mistake that it made index figures, from the freezing of the basic in its approach to the basic wage issue, and wage in November, 1953, until September, is now trying to overcome its mistake. It 1955, the basic wage in New South Wales has been said that the action of this Govern­ rose by 4 per cent., and in Victoria by ment has been responsible for taking from 5 per cent. It should be recalled that price those who work under Federal awards at control was abolished in Victoria in De­ ~east 88. a week, because the Commonwealth cember, 1954. Therefore, a full year elapsed court said in its judg·ment last year that, without any form of price control, and the. although it would give a 10s. increase in basic wage rose by 5 per cent. the basic wage, it would have been able to The same pcrcenta.r,·e increase occurred in give more if there bad not been basic wage Queensland, where the basic wage adjust­ adjustments in the States. The Hon. A. D. ments had been continued in conjunction Bridges suggested that basic wage adjust­ with a rigid form o·f price control. In South ments should be left to the court. It has Australia where basfo wage adjustments had not been made since November, 1953, and been left to the court in Western Austra­ where there was rigid price control of com­ lia, with no interference by the Govem­ modities that are included in the regimen, a ment. The court there suspended the ad­ 6 per cent. increase occurred in the cost justments, but reintroduced them. The of living. The increase in the cost of Government of Tasmania has given no living in Western Australia over this period directions to its Wages Board, and the ad­ was 12 per cent., and in TasII)ania 5 per justments were suspended for a period and cent. In Western Australia some small The Hon. J. J . .ilialoney.] Appropriation Bill. [10OCT.,1956.J Appropriation Bill. 2921 adjustments were made to the basic wage 1955. In Melbourne, where all price control in May, 1955, November, 1955, and again was abolished on 31st December, 1954, and in February this year. The adjustments quarterly adjustments to the basic wage were made by the State court without re­ were continued and rent was controlled, ference to the Commonwealth tribunal. as it was in New South Wales, the in­ Price control in Western Australia ceased crease in the cost of living rose by £1 Ss. at the end of December, 1953, at the same In Queensland, where price control on a time as rent control. In Tasmania the big list of commodities, quarterly adjust­ basic wage adjustments were not continued ments to the basic wage and rent control after September, 1953, whell'. the Co=on­ were continued, the total increase in the wealth court pegged the basic wage, and cost of living was 19s. Price control was adjustments were not introduced until continued in South Australia on a large January this year. Price control ceased list of essential commodities and services. in Tasmania soon after October, 1954. However, quarterly adjustments of the It is not possible from these :figures to basic wage had been suspended in Septem­ show that price control has been responsible ber, 1953, and also a partial lifting of rent for keeping the basic wage down or that control was approved. The total in­ basic wage quarterly adjustments were re­ crease in the cost of living in that State sponsible for increasing costs. In the was £1 2s. In \Vestern Australia price· States where the basic wage was not ad­ control ceased at 31st December, 1953, justed and prices were controlled, the basic and quarterly adjustments of the basic wage rose more than it did in New South wage were made as I mentioned Wales. I put it to any hon. member who earlier. The basic wage was pegged has any knowledge of what those :figures for a short period, and then variations. mean that he could not possibly say that were again permitted. Rent control ceased the basic wage should be pegged without at the same time as price control. The· replacing it with some other system. I make increase in the cost of living in that State· no suggestion about what the replacement was £1 17s. In Tasmania, price control should be, but it should be remembered that ceased together with rent control, and the many workers in Australia are receiving . suspension of quarterly adjustments of the comparatively low wages. basic wage, on 31st October, 1953. In February, 1956, quarterly adjustments to The Hon. J. A. Wmn: They will receive the basic wage were reintroduced. The no increase unless some provision is made total increase in the cost of living over the· for them. · period I have mentioned was £1 10s. per The Hon. J. J. MA LONEY: Those wor­ week. kers have received nothing yet. An analysis of the increases shows that in this State the cost of foodstuffs increased The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: It is important by 16s. lOd. a week, the cost of clothing to know whether there is any alternative. was reduced by 7d. per week, rent in­ The Hon. .T. J. MALONEY: That is creased by 2s. a week and the cost of the whole question-what is the alternative? miscellaneous items by ls. 9d. a week. In If there were a satisfactory alternative Melbourne, however, the increased cost of could one say, "We will freeze the basic foodstuffs accounted for 18s. ld. of the total wage"? From the June quarter of 1953 increase, and the cost of clothing rose by to the June quarter of 1956 the total in­ Sd. a week. It is significant that in Mel­ crease in the basic wage in New South bourne, which is the home of the ciothing Wales was £1. Price control was reintro­ duced for a short period during that time. manufacturer, the cost of that item rose· It was suspended on 15th April, 1955, and by Sd. whereas it decreased by 7d. in this reintroduced in July, 1955, on a limited State. scale. Quarterly adjustments of the basic The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Possibly the· wage were not introduced until November, Victorians are more clothes conscious. •2922 Appropriation Bill. • [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill.

The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: Possibly That formula did not apply to the unfor­ clothes manufactured in Melbourne are tunate labourer and unskilled worker, hnt ·selling more cheaply in Sydney and the highest ranking· bank officer and the the Victorians are making up the commercial pilot who received £1,500 a year .. difference. The fact remains that over enjoyed its benefits. Those on the lower the period I have mentioned the items rungs of the ladder must be looked after as that increased are those that have a more well as those higher up. Because of the .serious effect on the lower paid section of increased cost of living and justifiable the community. I am not referring· to a pressure from the unions, the court was worker receiving the basic wage, because forced to do something about the basic there are none who receive only that sum. wage. In July, 1955, the Colonial Trea­ .However, some are receiving not much surer wrote a long letter to the Prime more than the basic wage. When one )finister. In it he pointed out that serious refers to the average wage of £18 a discontent had been caused by the Com­ week it must be remembered that a large :Q:tonwealth court's freezing of the basic percentage of the people in this State do wage, which did not stabilise prices. He not receive that sum. The average is in­ asked the Prime Minister to convene a .. creased by the higher earnings of others. conference of employers and employees, In the light of the figures I have judges of industrial tribunals and those quoted how can anyone possibly say, unless who knew something of the form and some substitute is suggested to protect the character of the basic wage. In that way interests of the lower paid wage group, the Colonial Treasurer hoped to evolve a '"I am going to forgo the increase"? scheme that would be acceptable by all. The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: Elo long as the The Federal Minister for Labour and In­ Premier and his officers go to the next dustry accused the Colonial Treasurer of ·conference with flexible minds and are playing party politics. The Prime Minister willing to listen to reason, everyon~ should declared that a national council of em­ ·be happy. ployers and employees had been formed and that no good purpose would be served by The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: I have a convening the suggested conference. The flexible mind on the subject of the basic Commonwealth Government cannot direct wage. I have studied the problems con­ the arbitration court. A conference as nected with it as well as anyone in the suggested by the Colonial Treasurer would ··Commonwealth. I have realised from the have been able to ensure that the conclu­ time that the first 7s. was added to the sions arrived at were ratified. However, basic wage that there is danger in the the Commonwealth Government ridiculed system. . I have suggested not once but the suggestion. The recent rises in the many times before I was appointed to m,y basic wage have been brought about by office that competent authorities should factors beyond the control of the New ·examine the position to see what can be South \117 ales Government. It should be done. I do not advocate the adoption of remembered that the same arbitration the American system o.f no basic wage and court as recently as 1953 eulogised the higher wages, but often at the price of a method of quarterly adjustments and de­ tommy-gun or a tear-gas bomb. I am sure clared that they served a useful purpose. that that system is not wanted in Aus­ One does not need to be an accountant, a tralia. At all times parties to this ques­ . business man, or the head of a department, tion have been willing to look at the system to study balance-sheets and see the changes ·of determining the basic wage. that have taken place in recent years in the financial returns of various business In 1953 the Commonwealth court said undertakings in this State and in the Com­ ihat stabilisation of the basic wage would monwealth. result in stabilisation of prices. In 1954 It is little gratification to learn that the court delivered its famous "two and when one section of the community .a half times the 1937 margin" judgment. is likely. to suffer wage pegging-what Appropr-iation Bill. [10 OCT., 1956.] Apvropriation Bill. 2923

has been recognised for the past thirty­ upon to freeze their basic wage :five years as the economic right of without gaining anything in its place, the worker may be taken away from him­ business was showing an unrivalled the business world continues to prosper. I turn of prosperity. The only thing have no complaint about profits or the de­ that has destroyed that turn of prosperity velopment of business. I agree with the is not the basic wage or high wage levels, Hon. A. D. Bridges that the greater the but the economic policy that has frozen development of this country, the better will capital and restricted credit. be the workers' standard of living. Aus­ tralia enjoys its great development because The Hon. E. E. WARREN: The Coombs of the wage rates that are paid to-day. policy. Hon. members should examine the profits The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: Precisely. of the big companies and ask themselves Dr. Coombs is the head of the Common­ whether the basic wage should be pegged. wealth Bank and it must be recognised I shall quote some :figures compiled by the that the policy he administers is not a Commonwealth Bank in June, 1956. These lone policy. I do not know who dictates illustrate the profits of twenty of the it and I am not blaming him for it, but major business undertakings in New South the policy has been to restrict credit to Wales. business people, to ·cut down their over­ drafts and to restrict credit for building In 1947 the paid-up capital of those homes for working people. The effect of twenty representative companies was that restrictive policy on the financial £48,882,167. The shareholders' funds structure of this country has been grave were £62,610,304. After tax had been paid, but those who say that it can be recti­ a dividend of 7.811 per cent. was paid on fied only by pegging the basic wage are the shareholders' funds. In 1948 the paid­ · quite wrong. The solution to economic up capital of those twenty companies rose problems is not to be gained at the expense to £53,000,000; the shareholders' funds of any one section of the community. I were £72,000,000; and the dividend dropped have strong feelings on all this talk about to 7.5 per cent. In 1949, in round :figures the basic wage. the paid-up capital was £57,000,000; the shareholders' funds £76,000,000; and the The Hon. H. D. Ahern was present at dividend 7.33 per cent. In 1950 the paid-up the Canberra economic 'conference of capital was £65,000,000; the shareholders' Premiers and the Acting Prime Minister. funds £85,000,000; and the dividend 7 .9 He heard Premier after Premier say, "Vve per cent. In 1951 the paid-up capital was have done what you said but the cost of £75,000,000; the shareholders' funds, living has still gone up; we do not inter­ £101,000,000; and the dividend 7.5 per c1mt. fere with our courts, but the cost of liv­ In 1952, the paid-upi capital was £80,000,000; ing continues to rise." I am sceptical of the shareholders' funds, £119,000,000; and the wisdom of the New South Vv ales Gov­ the dividend dropped to 6.2 per cent. In ernment's giving away Ol1'e iota of its power 1953 the paid-up capital was £84,000,000; on wages or anything else. This Govern­ the shareholders' funds, £127,000,000; and ment' has found that by co-operating with the dividend 7.1 per cent. In 1954' the paid­ the Federal Government it has merely up capital was £90,000,000; the share­ burned its boats and been made an unwilling holders' funds, £149,000,000; and the party to reducing the economy of the dividend 8.3 per cent. In 1955 the paid-up country to a bad state. One may reason­ capital rose to £95,000,000; the share­ ably ask whether the Commonwealth court holders' funds to £155,000,000, and represents the wage earners of Australia. the dividend to 9.2 per cent. Time and again I have heard the state­ ment that 60 per cent. of workers are This is a recapitulation of the average covered by Federal awards and 40 per cent. situation of twenty companies. Some companies' dividend rate jumped as by State awards. I do not know where high as 20 per cent; others fell. Over it originated and I have always challenged the period when workers were called it. It was mentioned in this Chamber not 2924 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill. long ago and I questioned the :figures at The Hon. A. D. BRIDGES: All those once. Since then I have obtained the re­ figures are in an official publication. sults of a survey that the Commonwealth The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: And I Statistician made in 1954. The statisti­ could probably dispel them with other cian admits that this was not a complete :figures from an official publication. I have survey, but it indicates quite clearly that not had time to go into the hon. mem­ the majority of workers in Australia are ber's figures fully but I have some here covered by State awards. that contradict his. Between 1939 and Colonel the Hon. H. J. R. CLAYTON: 1955 the number of Australian factories What percentage~ increased in New South Wales by 120> per cent., in Victoria by 71 per cent., in The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: I omitted Queensland by 71 per cent., in South Aus­ to bring the detail of the figures with tralia by 75 per cent., and in Western me to-night but I have the figures that Australia by 69 per cent. The number of were submitted to the Premiers' Conference, employees in factories in each State in­ which are not so recent as the ones I men­ creased correspondingly. The value of tioned before. :figures is not so much in the :figures them­ Colonel the Hon. H. J. R. CLAYTON: selves as in the man who uses them. This I accept the Minister's statement. Government has nothing to apologise to anyone for in relation to its attitude to the The Hon. J. J. MALONEY: The :figures basic wage. It has not approached given to the conference of Premiers and economic problems with its eyes closed or the Acting Prime Minister show that in in any spirit of prejudice. It has placed New South Wales 43.5 per cent. of workers all its cards on the table. If any attack are covered by Federal awards and 45.4 is to be made on economic problems, let per cent. by State awards. In Victoria it be a general one. Price fixing is recog­ the :figures are 59.4 covered by Federal nised as one means of attack but it is awards and 2·7.4 by State awards. In recognised also that it would not be of Queensland 19.4 per cent. of workers are value unless it operated on a Common­ under Federal awards and 73.5 per cent. wealth-wide basis, and even then it would under State awa'rds. In South Australia need to be supported by other economic 57.1 per cent. are under Federal awards measures. and 29.8 per cent. under State awards. In The Hon. H. D. Ahern will recall that '\V"estern Australia the workers under the Commonwealth Government through Federal awards are 12.5 per cent. and under the Acting Prime Minister made no sug­ State awards 77.1 per cent. In Tasmania gestion to the economic conference except 52.6 per cent. of workers are under its proposal on the basic wage. It had Federal awards and 31.7 per cent. under nothing to offer in return for acceptance State awards. If one broke these figures of this suggestion, though it :finally re­ down into various groups of workers, a lented a little and said that it would give different picture might be presented, price control its blessing. That was said especially in respect of females who work although price control was only one issue, mostly under State awards. The Com­ just as immigration was an issue. The monwealth court by no stretch of imagina­ Premier asked that all these matters be tion legislates for the whole of the workers examined, and suggested them not· for im­ of Australia-except on the basic wage. The plementation but as a basis for discussion, question that presents itself is how long in the light of what is being done through­ shall it continue to assume the role of out the Commonwealth. I sincerely hope that the conference that the Prime Minis­ legislature for all workers of Australia~ ter has convened for the 15th of m•xt month I should have liked to deal with the :figures will approach matters in an attitude differ­ that the Hon. A. D. Bridges gave com­ ent from that which prevented a full paring production in New South Wales examination of the New South Wales Pre­ with that in other States. mier's plan on the last occasion. I hope .Appropriation Bill. [10 OcT., 1956.] .Appropriation Bill. 2925

also that the Prime Minister will submit this problem of finance, which my col­ proposals that will result in a fair deal leagues and I realise is most serious. We for all. If he or anyone else submits a approach it not in a spirit of criticism but plan that will not affect only one section rather in a desire to assist the Government of the community, this Government will in its difficulties. I agree entire1v with give it every consideration, because it is the Minister for Labour and Indust~y that not married to any policy in the matter, inflation in this country during the past but is concerned to do the best that it can few years cannot be attributed entirelv to for New South Wales and Australia with­ the increase in wages. That is funda~en­ ,out sacrificing any one section. tally true. Many factors have caused infla­ tion in Australia in the past few vears, and The Hon. F. M. HEWITT [10.12]: All not the least is the immigration policy that hon. members will agree that the Minister has been pursued. Both the present Federal for Labour and Industry is a master of Government and the previous Labor Federal the subject on which he has been speaking. Government displayed great courage in I do not propose to cross swords with him their policies, but inevitably the velocity .as regards the basic wage. However, the of population increase has caused tremend­ Hon. A. D. Bridges was attempting to ous shortages of goods. point out to the Government that the Budget papers show that the finances of Every person who has come to this coun­ the State are in a precarious condition. try under the assisted immigration scheme Estimated expenditure almost equals esti­ has had to be provided with all the i:roods mated revenue. The Hon. A. D. Bridges necessary to establish himself in this ~oun­ pointed out that the Government, as the try. That demand has been variously esti­ largest employer in this State, will have mated. Sir Douglas Copland said some to meet considerable expenditure beyond years ago that it cost £5,000 for every that shown iri the Budget if expected rises immigrant's requirements. That could be in the basic wage eventuate. He said also correct; I do not know. I have seen also that if the basic wage in this State con­ a figure of £2,000. Whatever it may be, tinues to rise at its recent rate, additional it is a heavy demand on the resources of ,expenditure will become greater as the year this country, and on the services that have progresses and the State would show a to be provided by the States. This is clearly substantial deficit at the end of the year. demonstrated in the figures before the He then pointed out that the Government House. An amount of £35,000,000 is pro­ has already made big drawings on its vided for education. Much of that is for surplus funds to compensate for the deficit the construction of new school accommo­ inourred during the previous year, and dation for the increasing number of child­ suggested that it would be in no position to ren, many of whom are here because of meet the deficiency that will result. I am the immigration policy. The next largest sure that no hon. member on the other side provision is for health services. Over of the House could dispute that. £22,000,000 is provided to build new hos­ pitals and maintain existing health ser­ The Minister for Labour and Industry vices for the greatly increased population. spoke of the basis on which the basic wage This in itself is obviously an inflationary is fixed and mentioned the capacity of factor. industry to pay. If that formula is applied to the Government as an employer, I sug­ However, there are other factors and, gest that its ability to pay any increased although this might seem a little anomalous wage is dubious. On the figures presented after the argument that I have just pre­ to the House it is in no position to do so. sented, one of the greatest is too much The question whether the basic wage should spending by governments, of this country. be frozen was not the only matter dis­ My major suggestion is that there may cussed by the Hon. A. D. Bridges. In fact be some way in which government spend­ he made seven or eight other suggestions ing can be better arranged. Another large that would also assist the Government in factor in inflation is excessive spending on 2926 Appropriation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Appropriation Bill. unproductive works, for which this Govern­ and State governments. Frequent in­ ment is culpable. No doubt a: case can be quiries into the activities of the public ser­ made out for the necessity of these works, vices are an absolute necessity in a demo­ but it is not too late for the Government cracy. Without them, governments auto­ to give priority to the most necessaory, matically surrender their rights to the complete them and bring them into produc­ heads of the departments. The activities tion. This is probably part of the plan of the departments should be examined that is being put into effect. periodically to achieve more efficiency. As a matter of interest I inform hon. members The Hon. C. COLBOHNE: ·what are some that an inquiry of the type I envisage has of the unproductive works? not been held in the past forty years and The Hon. F. M. HEWITT: Many of in the Federal sphere one has not been held the uncompleted dams that are scattered for thirty-six years. The need for one is round the countryside are obviously some long overdue. An inquiry into all aspects of them. More than £30,000,000 is tied up of the Federal public service is probably in these works, most of which are not yet even more necessary than in this State. productive. The Government has been cul­ Natu rally that is a little beyond our juris­ pable also in allowing its transport services diction. to get into their present state of disrepair. Considerable overlapping exists in the From the point of view of government activities of Federal and State depart­ efficiency and the lowering of costs, a prac­ ments, particularly those related to educa­ tical scheme, although probably not a tion, agriculture, transport, housing, and humanitarian one, is to reduce spending mineral resources. All these services come on services such as health and education primarily within the jurisdiction of the and, for several years at any rate, to de­ State. Overlapping is unnecessary and vote the maximum amount possible to costly. Since 1920, Great Britain has held establishing an efficient transport service. five inquiries of the type I have mentioned, The Hon. J. A. WEm: The Minister for the last having been held this year. In Education and the Minister for Health say the United States of .America two very that their departments receive the barest much publicised Hoover commissions have minimum now. been held. It has been estimated that the latest has already effected a saving to the The Hon~ F. M. HEWITT: Every de­ American taxpayers of 1,500,000,000 dollars. partment is in that position, under the type This suggests that the time is considerably of economy that has been built up, with overdue for the holding of a similar in­ tremendous demands on the resources of quiry in this State. Government spend­ the State, particularly as the result of the ing in .Australia has reached the colossal immigration policy. If this State is to be figure of £1,600,000,000 per annum. developed as it should be, the job of Cabinet Surely spending of such magnitude and the Premier is to decide the priority should be occasionally scrutinised, even of necessary works and ruthlessly apply if it is only once every forty available funds to them. years! The expansion of the public The Hon. A. D. Bridges made certain service has been much 15Teater in suggestions designed to assist the Govern­ the Commonwealth sphere than in the ment out of its financial difficulties. I have States. In 1939 there were 67,000 Common­ another that I think will make a substan­ wealth employees, but by 1955 this figure tial contribution towards the solution of had risen to 205,000. In 1939 the total in some of the State's difficulties. It is that all States of .Australia was 2·75,000, but it thought be given to the enormous expan­ had increased by 19-55 to 446,000. The sion in both State and Federal public $er­ vices in the past few years. Why govern­ Commonwealth figures show an increase of ments in Australia should resist periodic 340 per cent. compared with a mere 130 inquiries into these matters I do not know. per cent. in the States. I strongly recom­ l\f:y criticism applies equally to the Federal mend the Government to consider serious]~· Appropriation Bill. [10 Oc-r., 1956.] Questions and Answe1·s. 292T an inquiry in this State during the cur­ Associated Chamber of Manufactures, Can­ rent financial year. If it is able to per­ berra, that a considerable number of in-· suade the Commonwealth to do something dustries are being started in this country, similar and especially to inquire into the and that foreign capital amounting to division of functions, so much the better. £20,000,000 is being invested by them. He· The savings in the cost of gove1'.nment may is reported to have said also that five of well assist both State and Federal govern­ these industries would be established in ments to balance their budgets. Victoria, one in South Australia but none I cannot see how the figures that I shall in New South Wales. This might not be· quote about the comparative development significant in itself, but on the other hand of this and other States of the Common­ it might indicate that this State is losing wealth can be refuted. It is quite startling industries to other States. There must be· to a member of Parliament in this State to a reason for this. I hope that when the see what has happened over a few short Minister replies he will satisfy hon. mem­ years. I travel interstate frequently.. par­ bers that this State is not slipping behind ticularly ·to South Australia, where the as badly as it seems, by giving us some enormous progress of recent years has been information on the matter. most apparent and is relatively much Debate adjourned. greater than in New South 'Vales. Thi;; is clearly borne out by table 6 o.f the 1955 STAMP DUTIES (FURTHER AMEND­ report of the Commonwealth Grants Com­ MENT) BILL. m1ss10n. The Minister would do well to Bill received from the Legislative examine these · figures. If they are cor­ Assembly and read a first time. rect it means that since 1951-1952 in this State relatively less progress has been made House adjourned at 10.31 p.m. than in all other States. The figures on migration are a clear indication of the trend. From 1947 to 1954 the increase iG.egtslatiu.e .2\ns.embly. of migrants to this State was 5.2 per cent., compared with 10 per cent. in Victoria and Wednesday, 10 October, .1956. 12 per cent. in South Australia. Last week in Canberra I was informed that the figures Questions without Notice-Stamp Duties (Further ~ince · 1954 have shown a proportionate in­ Amendment) Bill (second reading)-Land 'fax crease. )fanngemcnt Bill (second reacling)-Adjournment (Bingarn: Owydil' Park). The Hou. J. A. Wicm: What does that prove? Ilfr. SPEAKER took the chair at 2.30 p.m. The Hon. F. M. HEWITT: That Vic­ toria is progressing relatively more rapidly The opening Prayer was read. than this State. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE. The Hon. J. A. WEm: The migrants were sent to that State; they were directed to vVESTERN COALFIELDS: COAL TRUCKS. go. Mr. J. H. ROBSON: I ask the Minister The Hon. F. M. HEWITT: They do not for Transport whether I brought to his have to stay there. notice on a previous occasion the scarcity of coal trucks in the western coalfields? The Hon. J. A. WErn.: That is so, but 'Vas the shortage serious last week, especi­ the majority of them are not able to move ally on Thursday and Friday, and were because of their :financial position. many local collieries then unable to fill The Hon. F. M. HEWITT: I do not their dail,y orders? Is it true that the know whether other hon. members read Commonwealth colliery at Lidsdale did not in a newspaper yesterday a statement receive one coal truck last Thursday? If by Mr. Latham Withall, Director of the these are facts, will the Minster do all in