Grant Utley Narrator

Carol Ryan Interviewer

August 20, 1977 Cass Lake,

Grant Utley -GT Carol Ryan -CR

CR: This is a Star Island history interview. We're interviewing Grant Utley, Cass Lake, MN. It's August 20, 1977. We're in the Cass Lake Times Office. Carol Ryan ofProject Star Island, interviewer. Can we start again with when Cass Lake began - the date? GT: In 1898, when they connected the Great Northern Railway from DeerSociety River to Fosston to complete the railroad from Grand Forks to Duluth and Superior. CR: 1898 was also the date of the Indian battle downHistory at , and this village was being formed at the same time. What about Star Island? When did people start coming to that area?

GT: Well, they mentioned this in the history - but they called it by a French name La Grande Isle - and they said that at one time it had eitherOral a Hudson's Bay post or American Fur post on there, just where, I don't know. Historical GT: But there was a fellow by the name of Hank Buring, he was a Deputy Sheriff from Itasca County; and before they put the railroad in there, he was sent by the Sheriff, Mike Toole at Grand Rapids to pick up an Indian at Red Lake. He said he walked. There was no railroad or anything, and he walked across Islandthe country, Where Allen's Bay is, there was the remains of a post there, in pretty good condition, with the name on it. But nobody was there, he said, but that was before anything came in here. CR: ThatStar was before 1898? GT: Oh, yes, long Minnesotabefore that.

CR: That's interesting.

When do you remember people first going over to the island?

GT: They used to go up over to the island just to look at it more than anything else, but it was about 1912 that they started, the Forest Service started to lease lots up on Sunnyside Beach.

CR: That's on the south shore.

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GT: Among the first that rented was the Larsons from Fosston and A.W. Foss, he the editor of the Thirteen Towns at Fosston.

CR: I see.

GT: They were one of the first. Now, Lillian Lohn is one of the Larsons. She's still living.

CR: What about the hotel? Was it on the island by then?

GT: No. The hotel was built by Ernest Seelye and Frank Suitor.

So the hotel was built by Frank Suitor and Ernest S-e-e-1-y-e, not S-e-e-1-e-y.

CR: Oh. Okay. And about when do you think that was?

GT: Now wait, that was probably right after 1912, around in there. CR: And that old hotel burned down? Project GT: That burned down, but they rebuilt it. CR: Oh, they did! Society GT: Suitor and Seelye, and they sold it to John Grady, who was postmaster at Cass Lake. He had lost the post office because the Democrats went backHistory in with Wilson, so they were looking around, so they sold this to him, and he ran it; and then it burned down again but it was never rebuilt then.

CR: For heaven's sake. Oh, I see. So there were two hotels. Oral GT: Oh, yes. Historical CR: Did they look the same?

GT: They were built about the same way.

CR: I see, ok. Island

GT: That was where the remains of that fireplace is. It was on leased land. It wasn't private land. It was on StarForest land. CR: Yes, in the middleMinnesota of the south side, there. GT: You know where it is, now.

CR: I've seen a picture with a big two-story structure with porches.

GT: Oh, yes; porches, it was nice to see, a nice place.

CR: Did people from town go out there to eat?

GT: Not too many people. It was all out-of-town people and then they stayed there for a week.

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The people at that time around town, they were mostly people that worked in sawmills or in the box factory. They didn't go on vacation.

CR: No, no. But I know they sometimes went out on the Zella Mae.

GT: Oh, yes, that was different. That was an excursion boat.

CR: Yeah. Well, how about the Cass Lake Commercial Club? I've seen some advertisements.

GT: The Cass Lake Commercial Club was - it was about 1906 or ‘07 or somewhere in there and the first Secretary was Heber Hartley. He was of the Cass Water, Light and Power Company; they owned the townsite too. He was the first Secretary. But later on there was a fellow by the name of Matt Koll, M.A. Koll.

CR: Oh, yes. K-O-L-L -

GT: K-O-L-L, and he had it for years, and he was a dynamic fellow. He neglected his own business; just promotion of the town. Project CR: And that was the purpose of the Club? GT: Yes, the promotion of the town. Yes, you bet. Society CR: I've seen an old pamphlet that was published by the Collier Publishing Company in Duluth about Cass Lake, the Home of the Pine, put out byHistory the Commercial Club.

GT: Yeah, the Commercial Club, yeah. CR: Have you seen that? Oral GT: Oh, yes. Historical

CR: Do you know about when that was? It doesn't have a date on it. GT: No, it doesn't haveIsland a date on it. CR: But it says that lots are for rent on the island for $5 per annum. GT: Yeah.Star CR: And it has a pictureMinnesota of a long, low barracks -like building on the island that says, "Star Island Inn Soon To Be Larger Accommodations" and I don't know if that was Truman Rickard's lodge or the first hotel?

GT: That was Rickard's, but that's on private land.

CR: Some of it.

GT: It was then. He had a nice place, but he was a better musician than he was a business man. He married Grace Larson, who was a sister to Lillian Larson Lohn, and then he sold the place and it went from then on to somebody who could hold it together, you see. But as long as he had it, he

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was pretty good.

CR: So the Commercial Club put out pamphlets like that to try to attract people to the area.

GT: Yeah, to try to attract business.

CR: Yes, to the area. In that same pamphlet there's a picture of the first cabin to the west of where that old hotel was and it's a big, old rambling thing that I’ve heard the Ranger lived in on the island, or the postmaster lived there?

GT: There was no ranger, he was a fire guard.

CR: Oh, I see.

GT: He wasn't a ranger, he was a fire guard.

CR: That was Jim Marstellar’s house and his widow is living there now and Jim told me last summer that the fire guard kept a cow...behind the house. Project GT: Oh, yes. They talk about the low water; they took it off Norway Beach across, waded it across, over to the island. Society CR: Oh, sure. GT: That was the story they told, because it was Historylow water. CR: Would that have been around 1910, or…? Later? GT: It was low water, real low water.Oral CR: For heaven's sake. Was anybody else livingHistorical on the island? Or at the hotel, when this man was the fire guard? Were there any fishing camps?

GT: No, the fishing camps they had that on Norway Beach, the first one. And at Turtle River. But the island had that hotel.Island CR: Some people who stayed at the hotel, like the Coens and the Davises built their own cabins after they'd been here. You've talked about the early name of the island, La Grand Isle, have you ever heardStar it called Cooper's Island? GT: Oh, yes. I thinkMinnesota that's in the book there, about that, in Tales of the Old Home Town, and that Cooper's Island, he was a surveyor or something, and this Lake Helen, they called it after Joe Cannon's daughter.

CR: Had Joe Cannon been out here?

GT: No, but they wanted him - they were trying to get, you know, one of these public relations, you know for Helen Cannon.

CR: There was a political party that came out to look over this area to see if it was going to become a National Forest wasn't there?

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Park. There was a question whether it would be a Park or a Forest, and that was Pinchot.

CR: Oh, was it Gifford Pinchot? Oh, my goodness! That was about when?

GT: 1905, '04 or '05.

CR: And was it called Cooper's Island then?

GT: I'm not sure.

CR: Ok. When did this area become a State Forest, and then when did it become a National Forest?

GT: It never was a State Forest. It was a National Forest, but it was called the Minnesota National Forest. To distinguish it from a State Forest they changed it to the instead of the Minnesota, so they wouldn't confuse it being a State forest. CR: What about Lake Windigo? Do you know when or why they changedProject it back to Windigo? Had it been "Windigo" before they named it "Helen"?

GT: That is in question there, but they had the story that this Windigo, you know, a Chippewa devil, you know, and the Indians were there and Lake Helen was alwaysSociety calm, you know. And the Indians wouldn't go on there.

CR: For heaven's sake. Why were they afraid of Historyit? Oh, because of the Indian legend.

GT: Because of the Indian legend, you know. It was always calm, of course there was no wind blowing, you know. Oral CR: For heaven's sake. Now Cass Lake was calledHistorical by other names too. GT: Red Cedar Lake, but when Cass came up why then the guys called it Cass after General Cass who was the Democratic candidate for President of the at one time. CR: They started callingIsland it that after he'd come. GT: He came up here to see where – CR: TheStar Mississippi was. GT: He and HenryMinnesota Schoolcraft.

CR: But did they start calling it Cass Lake after he had come, sometime after, or right away?

GT: Right after he'd been here.

CR: Do you know why they changed from "Cooper's Island" to "Star Island", or when?

GT: Oh, that probably was another public relations, you know, with the big shots in Washington, see. They do the same things nowadays.

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I know a lake down near Emily that used to be called Bean's Lake and now it's called Snowshoe because that's more attractive and more people will go there.

CR: Well, how about some of the people that were important to the island. A lot of people on the island, in their interviews, have told me about P.M. Larson.

GT: P.M. Larson was a great man - he was superintendent of schools. He came here in 1903, and he was prominent in the Cass Lake Commercial Club. He was so prominent in there and he worked so hard trying to get the Normal School for Case Lake that it was intimated that he was neglecting his schoolwork, so in 1911 they fired him.

CR: Oh, for heaven's sake. Then what did he do?

GT: Well, he was selling furnaces, and he wasn't any salesman, so the Cass Lake Commercial Club built this dock, where it is now. CR: The City dock? Project GT: The City dock, and they moved it from where Highland Inn is now, which was private property, and they bought this space from a fellow named H. H. Martin who was president of the Columbus Buggy Co. Society CR: That's the fellow that was related to the Firestones, that you mentioned in your book.

GT: Then Larson and his boys, they were growingHistory up, you know, they took this and for years it was always Larson's, see, until now it's back there. But those Larsons, he was a natural for giving a lecture on the beauty of Cass Lake. CR: Could you describe him physically?Oral GT: Oh, he was a big fellow, when he was youngerHistorical he was a handsome fellow, and had a good pink complexion, you know, like a Norwegian. CR: He was a Norwegian?Island GT: Oh, yeah. And he was born on the boat coming over here, something like that. CR: AndStar he had the kind of personality that liked to sell the community. GT: Oh, yeah, but Minnesotait was all gratis, you know. He was a booster. CR: Tell about his family, the boys.

GT: Well, the boys all grew up here and this fellow that runs it now is a grandson. Let's see, there was Harry and others. The oldest one was Pete, Maurice, then Arnold –

CR: Maurice ran the mailboat. Then Arnold built the boats. Was that a big industry in Cass Lake or not?

GT: It wasn't a big industry, but they made the best boats that were made, and they wanted them to incorporate and make boats, you know. He said, "The minute I put out a boat on a production 6 line, it's no longer a Larson boat!"

CR: Let’s see; so there was Maurice and Arnold and Harry?

GT: No, Philip, and then Harry; no Raymond, and then Harry. Harry was the youngest.

CR: Raymond, what did he do?

GT: He went away and worked; he worked around on the dock down there and then he went away and joined the Navy, and then he came back; so then he worked there. He died young. His widow is still running the Boston Hotel there; Loretta Larson.

CR: Oh, for goodness sake. I didn't know that she ran that hotel. And then let's see, was there anybody else? Harry ran the store.

GT: Harry, you know Harry; he's still around. Then it was Arnold Larson's boy ran it, first Corky, and now Connie. ArnoldProject Conrad was his name. CR: He didn't tell me that. What about A.J. Starr, did you know him? Society GT: A. J. Starr was the Regional Distributor for the Florsheim Shoe Company in Des Moines, Iowa, and he'd bought private land on the point there,History what they called Ah-Nung Point - Ah-Nung in Ojibwe means star. He was a little bit of a fellow and they called him Bungy Ah-Nung or "Little Star". CR: Was Starr around Cass Lake a lot?Oral GT: Oh, yeah, every summer. Historical

CR: He lived on the Island a couple of winters. GT: Oh, yes. But theIsland ice is the thing, you gotta be careful where you're building where the ice comes in or it freezes, and it wrecks anything.

CR: And they had some trouble with that over there?

GT: FirstStar outfit broken up with ice you know, early in the spring you have to be careful where they build. The ice comesMinnesota in and goes right up to the hills.

CR: What about Gilbert Bell?

GT: Gilbert Bell was a brother to Pete Bell who was a County Commissioner and he was a timber worker; but they had him there to look after the cabins, just to look after them and see that none got broken into in the winter.

CR: He was a Scotsman wasn't he?

GT: No, no, he was a Norwegian. Oh you bet.

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CR: I've seen some pictures of him in some old postcards, of him in town with a big fish over his shoulder.

GT: Oh, yes. He was quite a fisherman. Pete Bell, his brother, he told me he said, "My name should have been Olson," he says, "but there are so many Olsons that I took the name Bell."

CR: Back to the old hotel, again. Frank Suitor and Ernest Seelye had that hotel on the Island. Did they also have the Inn down there, in town?

GT: Oh, no. Frank Suitor was a cousin to the fellow who ran the Endion Hotel, Sam Suitor. They were cousins but one of them spelled it S-o-t-o-r and the other one S-u-i-t-o-r; and they were cousins and they were Canadians. And their brother - Frank's brother-in-law, A.W. Post that ran the Thirteen Towns at Fosston.

CR: What did Frank do after he left the hotel on the island?

GT: Frank Suitor was probably one of the most interesting fellows you ever saw. He came here as a clerk in the hotel and he tended bar in the bar that the hotel had; andProject he ran the Cass Lake Voice, it was a newspaper. And back about 1910 he went off for Christmas and he left a fellow by the name of Fred A. Clark in there that was a typesetter to put out the paper. Well, Fred was an old Englishman, a nice old fellow, but he forgot when he was celebrating Christmas that he had to put out the paper. So when Frank came back from Christmas, Clark had putSociety out a paper, but he hadn't even changed the date, so they lost what they called the legality in the second class publishing, you see. History CR: For heaven's sake.

GT: So they folded up in 1910, and then Frank, of course, it didn't worry him. He could do anything; so that's when him and SeelyeOral built their hotel, and they were good hotel people. Here's one thing, someone said, "You ought to have a Historicalbar here," and you know, Frank says, "No, not as a businessman." He said, "Whiskey has nothing to do in a resort place. You can go someplace else if you want a drink." And by gosh, it was a good move. CR: It seems to haveIsland been. GT: Yes, he did real well. CR: TheyStar really attracted people from far away - a lot of Kansas people. GT: "Pretty soon,"Minnesota he said "you've got all the drunks, and then they’ll be here. It was good business. Well this Suitor, after Seelye and Suitor sold the place to this John Grady, then Seelye who was the head of the board of Trade Grain Inspectors here. They sampled them here. And Hartley, of Duluth, he got Seelye to build Island Farm down here at Floodwood. He hired Seelye as his manager, and Seelye and his family moved down to Island Farm and were there for years, and then his boy got into a corn shredder and was killed. Then his wife didn't want to stay, and they moved back to Cass Lake and he worked for the box factory and then for the Minnesota Highway Department. And his daughter, that's Mrs. Rodney McKennett, that's his daughter, Nina.

CR: So he had a family after the boys.

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GT: Oh, yes, he had a nice family. They lived in the old Koeneman house.

CR: Well, for goodness sake. Island Farm, what happened to it after he left?

GT: Well, Island Farm ran for a long time; it was one of the big farms there when dairying was good, and they raised Guernsey cattle. They had to get purebred stock from Guernsey Island. They went to things in a big way, and they had a beautiful farm and it was one of the best in the State of Minnesota. It's like Seelye said; he said they made money, but they made it on hay, not on milk. He said the milk would take care of the expenses of the cows and everything else, but he said the big money was in selling hay. He had great big meadows.

CR: I've seen it from the highway. Then it just kind of fell into wrack and ruin.

GT: Oh, it was a tragedy.

CR: The Hartleys from Duluth owned that. I see. GT: Hartley was the one that built that Endion Hotel in the first place.Project And then one of the Hartleys went on to Washington State and became Governor. Two terms. Warren L. Hartley - he was a wonderful man, and he was the first Master of Cass Lodge here at Cass Lake, A.F. and A.M.

CR: How about Emil Johnson, did you know him? Society

GT: Emil Johnson was a character; I got that in that Tales of the Old Home Town about he and Father Wright; but he used to carpenter; and he wasHistory popular over there because he was not only a good carpenter, but he was a good entertainer. But he built a lot of those places over there. CR: Yes, he surely did. He's related Oralto a lot of people who are still in the area. GT: Sure, his stepson lives on Stony Point, MiltonHistorical Johnson. CR: In your book you say that he could quote biblical verses and he also spoke as if they were biblical verses. GT: He was really funny,Island you know. The way he said it, you'd think he was quoting scripture. CR: Was this all out of his head? How about Chief Little White Cloud?

GT: Chief Little White Cloud's name was Selkirk and he was a descendant of Jeremiah Selkirk, that startedStar the Selkirk settlement in Canada, in Manitoba. And he came here with the Indian Office - he was ChiefMinnesota Clerk out in South Dakota.

CR: Jeremiah?

GT: No.

CR: Oh, this Selkirk; was it George or John?

GT: George. He came here and was kind of a professional Indian after that.

CR: The reason I asked about it was that people who are my age who grew up on the Island

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remember him coming over there and getting up a Wikup on Lodge Point and teaching the children how to make things and telling them Indian stories.

GT: He was a big showman, and he was good. He claimed to be a descendant of Whitefisher.

He was one of the Ojibwe chiefs; he lived at Sault St. Marie Island.

CR: Someone told me on the island that one reason he came, they thought, was because Indians didn't like the island and didn't like to come to the island, and that he was trying to get rid of that legend.

GT: I think maybe you're right on that. I remember having heard it; he was really good; really better than anyone else in trying to make them more like the way that society was over there, in Duluth.

CR: Why do you think the Indians didn't like to come to Star Island? Do you think it was just Windigo? Project GT: No, not too much, you have to follow the lakes in these birch bark canoes. It's a matter of survival, more than anything else.

CR: Some of the older islanders say that they remember their family takingSociety them to see John Smith.

GT: Oh, yes. John Smith - he was quite a character.History He probably wasn't as old as they claimed he was, but he looked old. And so they started saying he was 102 years old and then added up the years. CR: So, had he always been around theOral Cass Lake area, John Smith? GT: Yes, he was - going and coming. I think Historicalhe was born around near Grand Rapids, but it seemed that between Grand Rapids and Cass Lake he was back and forth on account of Lydicks, and they owned the townsite on Sec. l6, which was Cass Lake. They were friends of him back and forth. Island CR: And he would stay out on that section when he came? So that would be where the children were taken to see him, probably, in the Lydick neighborhood. Mr. CarahoffStar had the marina for a while and no one can remember his first name. GT: Harold. Minnesota

CR: And was he a local person too?

GT: No, he was from Ohio. He was with a young fellow named Young and they had it together.

CR: Ok. Some people on the island have reminisced about a Mr. Thiel.

GT: Thiel yeah. He lived down about where Sah-Kay-Tay is, and I think they hired him at one time as a caretaker.

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CR: And he came out and did a lot of yard work for people.

GT: He was a nice old fellow, but he lived about where Tom’s Resort is now.

CR: Well we've talked a little bit about the lodge and Truman Rickard, can you think of anything else you want to tell about Truman?

GT: Truman Rickard wrote this "Minnesota, Hail to Thee". They tell me that Arnold wrote the words, and that Rickard wrote the music.

CR: I'll have to look that up.

GT: But he was a real musician and a nice guy, a real nice guy.

CR: Did people from town go over to the lodge for dinner?

GT: Oh, yes. They ran it so that you could go over there, and of course they had this boat you know. Project CR: Yes, I've seen a brochure that says the P.M. Larson and Sons Boat Line. GT: Boat Livery. Society GT: It ran on the hour, almost. History CR: How about the Anderson family; how did they start coming to Cass Lake?

GT: I've got that in that book, it tells about this Suitor; they sent him up - somebody was saying where they was going to find someplace where it was nice and quiet and this guy says, "Go up and see Frank Suitor." Frank was selling landOral up there and the fellow came and inside of five minutes he sold him his place. Historical

CR: How soon did they start coming then? GT: I'd say about in Islandthe early twenties. CR: Did you know the grandmother, old Mrs. Anderson? GT: Oh, Staryes. She was a very dynamic person, and an aristocrat, and real nice, a wholesome woman. She was aristocraticMinnesota in manners and everything else. CR: And then her children came, and their children. And they brought servants with them?

GT: Oh, yes. She was a Clayton and Anderson-Clayton were the cotton kings of the world at one time. And her brothers, this Clayton was Secretary of State at one time, of the United States.

CR: Someone told me that the men of the family would come into town every day and go over to Bemidji to transact business.

GT: Oh, no. They did all their business in Cass Lake. You betcha. That was one of the best families we ever had. They didn't go to Bemidji. They went to Cass Lake. They were Cass Lakers.

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CR: Did they conduct their cotton brokerage business from here in the summer?

GT: The boys were still on the job in Memphis, Tennessee and Houston, Texas. My son-in-law is with the Troubadors Co. and he said something about the Anderson Fleet. Anderson Fleet, what have they got going? "Well," he said, “he has that cottage over at Star Island." “Well,” he said, “they're the best clients.”

CR: In your book you mentioned that one reason they might have stopped coming was the kidnapping.

GT: I think that was probably it. Because when you've got a situation like that where they pick up prominent people and hold them for ransom, and that was terrible at that time, all over the country.

CR: There was a lot of it going on, it was in the thirties. So they decided that it wasn't safe?

GT: It just wasn't worth it. CR: What about the girls' camp that was on the island? Project GT: Oh, that was owned by Skirman, and she had it there and she run it with an iron hand; and it's too bad that this Gafe Peterson, he was running the boat for her. Society CR: Oh, Gafe Peterson - I know who he was.

GT: And he was going to send them all away andHistory get some outboard motors and everything else, but, hang it, he was too busy to take off time, and she thought he was all right. He was a good man, a young fellow, you know. And then she sold the place to Berhold and Fellows, and then they moved it over on Big Wolf Lake. Oral CR: Why do you think they moved it? Historical GT: Too hard to get across the water you know. Islands are out when you come right down to it. CR: Yes, they're notIsland easy. GT: That was a pretty fancy place, that camp. They had a tennis court, Why it was a wonderful camp, and as far as getting away from people.

CR: So they left in about 1929 and went over to Wolf Lake. A lot of people, of course, on the island wereStar there on the morning of the big blowdown. It was July 22nd, I know that from your book. I didn't know Minnesotathe exact date. Could you tell a little bit about that storm and what happened on the mainland top?

GT: Well, you know it's just like rust. People say, "Leave these trees. Don't cut ‘em down!" Why if they don't cut 'em down at the right time, they'll blow down. My dad was an old timber man, and just before the blowdown somebody said, "Old man Neils would like to get the timber." He was talking as an old timber man. He says, "If you want to save those trees you get some haywire and haywire them together because they're going to blow down."

CR: Where did that storm come from and go through?

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GT: I don't know where it came from, but whether it jumped, from this side to the other side or the other side to this side, I'm not sure, but I'm quite sure it came from across the northwest.

CR: The forestry let contracts for them to come in and log when it was over? Where did that lumber go then?

GT: To sawmills all over.

CR: Were there any people killed out at Norway Beach?

GT: I'm not sure. I think one man was. I heard that it had been a very hot night and a lot of people from town had gone out there and were sleeping out there.

It was just deadly still.

CR: Were you here? GT: Oh, yes. I've been here for seventy years. Project CR: But you were in town that night. GT: In fact it was my wife's birthday, so you can always remember fromSociety that. And that blow came down and my mother was living in the house that was down the hill from us; and that blow missed us. History CR: Did it come through the town too?

GT: Oh, yes, but it wasn't a cyclone; it was what they call a hurricane.

CR: That's what people said. One personOral at the lake said that he stood on his dock and watched the water go away from the dock and then comeHistorical back.

GT: It was a hurricane, a tidal wave. CR: Did you ever hearIsland about an Indian camp on O'Neal Point or Anderson's Point up there? GT: No, I'm not familiar with that. I don't remember any Indian camp.

CR: I'm trying to date that because the remains of the camp are there. You can see the ricing pile and you canStar see the canoe chutes that they must have gone before people started taking out permits. Minnesota

The Gorenflos had an early permit on the island.

GT: Yes, so did the Fosses and the Marv Larsons and Albert Marshall who had a saloon in this building here, and Andy Johnson. Andy Johnson's son is still here. That's Ellsworth. And Stan Johnson is a cousin. Their fathers were all brothers.

CR: Then have you ever heard anything about residents earlier than the Chippewa Indians? Like prehistoric people.

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GT: They claim that the people in here were not Chippewas. Of course, that's proven because the Chippewas came from Michigan.

CR: The Sioux had been here.

GT: The Sioux were here. But there were other Indians before the Sioux. They were Black Ducks, they called them.

CR: How was it that we got a mail route out on that island?

GT: Well, I'll tell you, Harold Knutson, Congressman Harold Knutson -

CR: He was the local congressman, to Washington?

GT: Yes, and he was interested - he had made friends of Matt Koll and P.M. Larson, so he was interested in building a dam in Cass River. See, that's Knutson Dam - that was named after Congressman Harold Knutson. He was also interested in keeping his old friend, P.M. Larson busy, and so he got a mail route for him. Project CR: For heaven's sake. About when would that have been? GT: I can't remember. I've always said that that was the worst thing thatSociety ever happened to Cass Lake when they made the mail route and carried groceries. Before that time the people on the island would come in and get their mail and come down here to the office and sit down and make exchanges and have a visit with them and they wereHistory part of the town; but when they started carrying mail and groceries and everything to them, there was no reason in the world to go around seeing people. You see the point, don't you? It's just like the same thing, I claim the worst thing that ever happened was rural free delivery. The farmers used to come in on Saturday and get your paper. Oral

CR: And spend a little money. Historical

GT: And visit with people around, visit with them. CR: That’s right. WhenIsland was Harold Knutson Congressman, about when? GT: He was Congressman for forty-eight years. And then a fellow by the name of Fred Marshall beat him - an unknown. But he was against the First World War and he was against the Second World WarStar and that made him very formidable in German communities, and that had nothing to do with beating him. ItMinnesota was just that he was a Republican and he had to go. CR: Why did they want the dam at Cass River?

GT: It’s no earthly good in high water, but it controls in low water.

CR: And before that had there been kind of an earthen dam there?

GT: Yes that was put in there illegally by J. Neils to get the water up so that he could use his steamboats. The Zella Mae was one of them.

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CR: Towing the logs across the lake.

GT: And that was low water, but then the people up the river, they'd flood their meadows, see, and then they'd sue Neils Mill for the damage to their meadows, which most of the time weren't really meadows at all you know, but they just paid lots of blackmail for having that water, of course.

CR: How long was the Neils Company there?

GT: 1900 to 1923.

CR: And then they went west. Big logging really was over about 1905 in Minnesota, wasn't it?

GT: Yeah, the great big logs. These were - he bought the timber from farmers and almost everyone. CR: I have all the copies of the Loon, the magazine that the island putsProject out. GT: Yes, and it's really a dandy too.

CR: And in the really early ones you see the islanders being very worried about the fact of a road being built over to the island. But now they're all gone, and their childrenSociety don't seem to know who wanted to build the road.

GT: I’ll tell you who wanted the road. The primeHistory promoter of that was a Doctor G.E. House; he was an Indian doctor here. They always had an Indian doctor looking after the Indians; and House see, if they developed Star Island they had to have a road there. Well the cottagers were against it, you know and 30 was most of the Cass Lake Commercial Club because they said it would no longer be an island. About like they hollerOral about the Boundary Waters Area. Gee, it was about the same kind of cause. But House,Historical he was a dynamic man, a master, and Mayor of the town and everything else and when he got an idea in his head he was gonna do it. So, the folks on the island, you see, where the narrows there - CR: It was going to Islandcome across there? GT: Yeah. There's both of those places their Beltrami County, not Cass County, so they got a good road laid out and if it was low water they could probably walk across it, but it was private property onStar both sides. I think you're on the private property. CR: Yes. Minnesota

So how did they succeed in stopping the road?

GT: There was no road built. It was just laid out. They never had any funds to make it.

CR: Beltrami County never had the funds.

GT: No, and they weren't interested in bringing business to Cass Lake.

CR: I heard the forestry was against it too, but I don't know that. 15

GT: Yeah, they were against it on the grounds that it would no longer be an island.

CR: Well, that's good to know, because no one has known the story of the road.

GT: Well, they actually had a road laid out.

CR: Well, one reason I was curious was that in Beltrami Bounty, when you look at the plot map of the island, up on the north side of Anderson's Point there were a lot of lots that were sold to a man named Cox in St. Paul and somebody else, and those were all laid out with streets and alleys behind them.

GT: I'll tell you who Cox was. He was a State Forester from Minnesota, and his partner was Thornton who was Surveyor General of Minnesota, and Frank Suitor again. They were all buddies, you know and they owned this company, and Suitor was the salesman for them. You know this Suitor, he afterwards ended up at this Martin's Ge-She-Gon Club and named it the Highland Inn. And he was an excellent hotel man and his wife was a good woman too; and they run a real outfit.

CR: So when O.R. Martin got rid of it, they took it over and made itProject into the Highland Inn.

GT: He died. Martin died.

CR: Well, they sold a lot of those lots, it looks like, but they were neverSociety developed; there were never any cabins built up there. Do you know anything about that area on the northeast corner of the island called "Pete's Place"? History GT: Now, that I don't know.

CR: It's a sort of swampy area facing Allen's Bay, and there's some old remnants of a cabin in there and a kind of meadow, and someOral people think that there was a man there that was a bootlegger. Historical You talked a little bit in your book about the early days of the CCC and some the other WPA programs and things that were here, and I wondered if you could tell about when that stone house down at the City DockIsland was built. Did they build that? GT: That was built WPA. CR: AndStar it was bu ilt to be for the harbor? GT: Yes, you see theyMinnesota made the harbor - that's a rock harbor, you know. CR: Oh, they built that too?

GT: Yeah, and then to protect. The ice came in and destroyed almost anything and high water would break up the harbor you know, and they had to have something, so they got WPA funds and something like that, they made that harbor house. That was just a kind of depot, an old restaurant.

CR: What other kinds of projects did they do in this area, in Cass Lake?

GT: Those CCCs, they had a lot of work. They built that big house for the U.S. Forest Service,

16 and the one down at Norway Beach, and roads and everything. That was a good program. A lot of the fellows that live here came here as CCCs.

CR: Is that right? And stayed?

GT: Tony Wold is one of them, and Swearingen - Bud Swearingen, he was a CCC.

CR: Oh, for heaven's sake. What about the place that's now the library?

GT: That was during the forties. The Junior Chamber of Commerce, who thought that the Cass Lake Commercial Club wasn't doing enough for the town - so these young fellows had the Junior Chamber of Commerce, and this is all right too, you know , and they were full of pep and vinegar, you know, and they built the building like a lot of these building were built, but who was going to maintain them? So it ended up, the village maintained it.

CR: So it wasn't a CCC or WPA program? GT: Oh, no. It was the Junior Chamber of Commerce; it's been a goodProject deal; the library went ahead and raised funds and everything else, and it's a beautiful building. CR: Yes it is. Now you've got a new Jaycee group in town. Society What would you say the impact of the island has been as far as Cass Lake is concerned?

GT: That's a big asset. I say it's a big asset. You don'tHistory realize it until you look at how many people are over on that island. It's been a definite asset. CR: That's good. Oral Can you think of any good stories that you remember, or things that I've left out here that you think I should know, as far as Island history? Historical

GT: In the Tales of the Old Home Town, I'll look it up for you, about the time that Gafe Peterson – you knew Gafe - we don't know whether this was true or whether it was a story; there was a fellow over there, OleIsland Hagen - you remem ber him? CR: Yes, he was the caretaker of the girls’ Camp.

GT: Well, anyway the story is that Ole and Gilbert Bell and Gafe, he was working for Miss Skirman, andStar George Engelbritsen, who was a brother-in-law of Maurice Larson, they were sitting there during one night,Minnesota when Ole all of a sudden says, "I know what you fellows are trying to do," he says, "you're trying to get me drunk and then you're going to take ray gold." He says, "I'll fool you." So he went in his room and got a leather bag and he went out in the rain and pretty soon came back, and he says, "Now try to find my gold." Well, there's been people trying to find that ever since, and they've never found, it. But whether Ole was a joker, or Gafe was a liar, I don't know.

CR: Well, it's a good story.

GT: Well, you know Ole, and if you know Gafe, you don't know which is which.

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CR: Well, it’s a fascinating place, that island.

GT: Yes, it is. You know, it is intriguing. My dad was one of the first to have a sailboat. He was raised on Lake George, where he had plenty of water to maneuver on. He said, "Sailboats aren't any good here," he says, "there's too many bars and too many islands. You start off in the wind and you run on all the bars."

CR: Now, in your paper you talk about the Indians having an allotment.

GT: Well, in 1889 they let the Indians pick up 160 acres for every head of a family, 80 acres for every man and woman from 18 to 21, and 40 acres from babes in arms to 18. And then, when they got through, they opened it for homestead entrance.

CR: So that the Indians could sell it?

GT: No, wait a minute. No, they couldn't; the Bureau of Indian Affairs, see - unless they were competent mix-bloods. This Nellie Lydick was a half-breed, and she was a competent mix-blood, and most of them were because they had been sent to college, you know;Project and she married George Lydick, who was a white man, and west Cass Lake was her allotment. And the next one was Kate Van Pelt, who vas her sister, and Mark Burns, who was her brother.

CR: Well the reason I asked was that the Island - now Starr bought hisSociety land from an Indian.

GT: Yeah, but that was through the Bureau of Indian Affairs. They were acting for the same way with the Creech; he’s on Big Wolf Lake, and GorenfloHistory bought it through the Indian Department. There was a little daughter or son of George Hyde – 40 acres, as his allotment. He died.

CR: What about the land that I have on the island? It was Indian originally and it was bought by a white person in 1920. Oral

GT: Who was the white person? Historical

CR: I’d have to go back and look it up. GT: Well, it was boughtIsland through the Bureau of Indian Affairs legally or lawfully - and they did a pretty good job of taking care of this.

CR: They took care of the ones where the people were underage or not competent. Well, what about the Starwhole area north of Highway 2? When they talk about Tract 33 or the Tribal Tract, what does that mean? Minnesota GT: There's a difference between what you call a reservation and Indian land, it's just like a bunch of people getting together and organizing a church and saying, "This is our church, and it's tax exempt," not because it's a religion, but because we're Indian.

CR: How about Highland Inn and Sah-Kay-Tay?

GT: That was an allotment. Now I'm pretty sure, I'm just trying to think whether it was Bob Beaulieu, he was a French-Indian.

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CR: But whoever it was, they could sell.

GT: They could sell if they were competent and cleared by the Indian Department.

CR: So probably the people who bought that land paid a fair price for it because the Indian Department wouldn't let them.

GT: No, they wouldn't let them. They came back and said, "You paid us a dollar and a quarter an acre for it," which was a good price at that time. But now, that's not a good price. They want the difference between a quarter and a thousand dollars.

[End]

Project Society History

Oral Historical

Island

Star Minnesota

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