Third Session - Fortieth Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba

DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS

Official Report (Hansard)

Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker

Vol. LXVI No. 13A - 10 a.m., Thursday, November 28, 2013

ISSN 0542-5492 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature

Member Constituency Political Affiliation

ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St. James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MELNICK, Christine Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant Arthur-Virden Vacant Morris

447

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 28, 2013

The House met at 10 a.m. be going on right about now. I–there may be some action happening there right now. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are But, Mr. Speaker, further–speaking to this bill, assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as Bill 200, democracy for voters, I would first like to may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our offer my, again, offer my congratulations to Larry province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that Maguire on his substantial victory. All members, no we may desire only that which is in accordance with matter what political bent they may have, realize that Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it Larry is a worker And Larry is–we have always with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the called Larry the machine, because Larry could work glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of night and day. And it certainly showed in this all our people. Amen. by-election, federal by-election, where despite the polls and despite all of the political 'pundints', he did Good morning, colleagues. Please be seated. go out and engage voters, he went out and asked for ORDERS OF THE DAY their support, and they, in turn, returned that support to give him an election victory. And he will be an PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS excellent Member of Parliament. He has a great Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr. Speaker, understanding of Manitoba and Manitoba's needs, could you canvass the House to see if there's will to and will make a fine representative for not only for go directly to Bill 200, The Legislative Assembly Brandon-Souris, but for all of Manitoba in the Amendment Act (Democracy for Voters)? federal Parliament. So we look forward to his introductory speech, his maiden speech in the House Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to proceed of Commons, and I'm–again, knowing Larry, it–I directly to Bill 200? [Agreed] doubt whether it will be brief when his introductory DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS– speech is in there. But good for Larry, and we wish PUBLIC BILLS him all the best. Bill 200–The Legislative Assembly And now back to Bill 200, Mr. Speaker, Amendment Act (Democracy for Voters) wouldn't it be novel if we could have some by- elections in Manitoba so that we could have a couple Mr. Speaker: We'll now call Bill 200, The of new members in this Chamber? Morris has been Legislative Assembly Amendment Act (Democracy vacant since last February. And under current for Voters), standing in the name of the honourable legislation the government has the option of up to a Minister of Mineral Resources (Mr. Chomiak), who year–has the option of up to a year and they are has three minutes remaining. obviously seeking to go to very close to the year. We Is there leave for this matter to remain standing hope they don't break the law and go over the year, in the name of the honourable minister? that's–they've had issues with law with other bills this session. Some Honourable Members: No. But it's really a sad state when the constituents of Mr. Speaker: No? Leave has been denied. Morris have not had a representative in this session, and there's been ample time to call this by-election; Further debate? after all, we were in here all summer. We could have had it anytime in the past year, but this government Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Good morning, has chosen not to. And with that they have chosen Mr. Speaker. It's–having been at the AMM banquet not to let Morris constituents have a voice within this last night and visiting with all–many rural coun- Chamber. cillors–or many councillors, from not just rural, from urban and rurals, last night, it was certainly a good And, you know–or we know that there are event. Congratulations to the AMM on another reasons why the government has delayed this, but it's successful convention which, as I understand, would not valid reasons, but they have used reasons. There 448 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013 are reasons out there and, of course, first of all, the well, then I guess we will see. That's the voters' right most paramount, pressing concern of government is to do that, and that's–it's just–it continues to be that their ribbon-cutting parade will be cut short unfortunate that they have–this government has such during that–the time of the by-election, because a callous attitude towards Manitobans, and through with the exception of the previous minister of not calling these by-elections, through not consulting Health, there's not supposed to be any announce- with Manitobans, the excuses are–have run out. The ments during an election or a by-election, and this Premier (Mr. Selinger) tried to say that he wanted government knows that. So it would certainly cut to call a–two by-elections simultaneously because into their ribbon-cutting parade if they had to hold it would save taxpayers money, and Elections back for the 35 days of a by-election. But–and that's Manitoba certainly corrected him on that. There not a reason for the voters of Morris, the constituents was–there is no cost savings in holding two at one of Morris, not to have a voice in this Chamber. time, so that was, again, certainly blown out by Elections Manitoba, because Elections Manitoba is And, of course we know that, too, with a very credible in knowing what their–how to run by-election, candidates would be going door to door these elections, and we should be paying attention to and asking for support, earning support from that. candidates. And as what was very obvious both in Provencher and Arthur–and Brandon-Souris federal And–but we know that really it's the ribbon- by-elections is that the NDP candidates faired very cutting parade that will be cut short whenever the poorly in this. There was a voter response to the by-elections are called. And I certainly want to illegal PST hike, and the candidates themselves, the encourage this government to finally call these NDP candidates, realized that. And, you know, by-elections. Let's have representation and let's let perhaps this government is hesitant to go out and ask the people of Morris, and now Arthur-Virden, decide voters for their support in here in the provincial by- who they want to have representing them in this elections based on what they obviously know, Chamber. It is their decision and it should be their they've–if they have listened at all to Manitobans decision and it should be their decision sooner rather over the past almost a year, or since July, since the than later. And waiting–putting a decision off is not budget was introduced in April about their PST going to change what Manitobans think. In fact, it's– hike–illegal PST hike. And it's become a tipping as many constituents of Morris have already said, point for this government because they no longer they're feeling quite angry at not having repre- want to consult with Manitobans and they're no sentation here in a timely manner. We know that longer willing to listen to what Manitobans have to it takes time to do these things, but it just–it's say. And, you know, besides day-to-day interaction unfortunate that this government has become like a with the citizens of Manitoba, certainly a by-election dictator in Manitoba in that they are not willing would be a very strong indicator of support, as they to listen to what Manitobans have to say, in seem to think they have support out there for this particular, to what the good citizens of Morris and PST hike. So call a by-election and see what–how Arthur-Virden have to say, and let them decide. Call that–what Manitobans in these two constituencies the by-elections and let them decide who should be and–would have to say to this government about their representative in this House so that they can their illegal PST hike. represent the issues and the concerns that those citizens have in those constituencies. * (10:10) So I urge the government to call a by-election. And, so, Mr. Speaker, it's unfortunate that this Thank you, Mr. Speaker. government continues to believe that the money that hard-working Manitobans raise–earn through their Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, jobs, is better spent at the Cabinet table, rather than it's a great pleasure to rise today in the House and at the kitchen table, and this is–no amount of discuss this bill. I'd like to point out a few things to announcements by this government will convince–be the members of the opposition, that when we called able to convince Manitobans that their money is the by-election for Fort Whyte, where their leader better spent by this government rather than at their– ran in, they complained that it was too fast. It was and decided where to be spent rather than at their too soon. It's August. It's family time. Everybody's own kitchen table, and a by-election would certainly at their cabins. That's what the Leader of the bring that message home. I believe it would bring Opposition said. Oh my goodness. We can't have an that message home to this government. If I'm wrong, election now; everybody's got to go to their cabins. November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 449

So now they flip-flop on their position and now thing but then they want to talk out of both sides of we're taking too long [inaudible]. We can't win, Mr. their mouth. It's one thing and then another. We're Speaker, no matter what happens because all we hear talking about–they said they were going to spend and from them is the negative nellies of this province spend and spend–way more than what we were going complaining about everything. You hear the Leader to spend during the election. And now it comes out of the Opposition in the newspaper was saying if that they're going to cut a half a billion dollars. So he freezes his tootsies off during this election he's what would have been the truth had they have been going personally hold the Premier (Mr. Selinger) elected? It would have been deep cuts across the responsible. province. We all know that reality. We all know it. Oh, Mr. Speaker. It's too hot in August; it's You know, they want to talk about democracy. summertime for families. Or it's too cold in the This is coming from the party who's just seen the wintertime for them to go canvassing. When is the biggest scandal in the history of the country. proper time for them? I mean, you know what? I'm Actually, the member for Arthur-Virden is now an not psychic, but I'm just guessing because, based on MP in Ottawa, and, you know, they're talking about past history in the province, we have not had the biggest scandal in the history of the country with by-elections when we're in session. And since they the Senate scandal. Now, you know, they don't want decided to hold us in session all summer, which was to–they didn't want to support our resolution to fine–I mean, I was–I had a great time, you know, abolish the Senate. No, they think that there's–that we're here all summer for the democracy of Senate reform is good and that–you know, that it Manitoba. But since they decided to hold us in all could be happen. But the Leader of the Opposition summer and we made an agreement to come back admitted himself that the Senate is rewarded to right away, very quick turnaround, I'm guessing that plum–its plum spots were awarded to people. And he maybe right after–just–not psychic, but I'm guessing admitted it. He said it in his speech that, yes, it's– that after this session, when we finish in a week from while it's–you know, it's time for, you know, some now or a week and half from now, that there will be reform. We admit that, yes, the spots are rewarded by-elections called. I think that that's probably like it to plum people. Well, what happens when you get is in every time in Manitoba, where we don't hold an independent of the Senate, Mr. Speaker? Is the them while we're in session. population now populated with electorate party politicians? You know, they want to talk about democracy. This is funny coming from the group who was called So how would that impact the thinking and sober the biggest liars in the history of the province in second thought on the Red Chamber? And I'm the Monnin inquiry. They vote-rigged, there was a quoting out of an article from Peter McKenna, scandal, and they want to talk about democracy in who's a professor and the political chair of science voting? I mean, it's absolutely unbelievable that these at the University of Prince Edward Island in people talk like this. They take no responsibility for Charlottetown: How would the sober impact of the what they're talking about because one time it's too second thought in the Red Chamber? Clearly one soon, it's August, it's too warm, it's family time; should be concerned about the level of partisanship– another time it's going to be too cold, his tootsies will and politicized beyond what it already is–that an freeze off. It's unbelievable, Mr. Speaker. elected Senate would foster. I mean, you know, and then the member And in the–you think that the involvement of the opposite just got up and spoke about the PST. Well, Prime Minister's office in the current Senate scandal it's interesting, because they go around saying that is troubling, try to imagine the level of political we talk about this during the election. Well, let's talk interference that would be if both federal government about what they talked about during the election. and majority senators, as is the case today, belonged During the election, their promises were outspending to the same party. Fearing punishment, what sort us by almost half. So we were saying one thing, and of backroom deals, pressure tactics and horse- they were, like, one and a half times us. But now the trading would there be in the upper house then? real side of the Conservative Party comes out, when Accordingly, those who advocate vigorously for the now they're saying let–we want to make deep cuts. elected Senate should really be careful what they Half a billion dollars in cuts right across every wish for. Elected senators not only fuel unhelpful department in this province. That would deeply partisanship and legislated obstructionism, but it also affect Manitoba families. So they want to talk one empowers those same senators to act on their 450 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013

'legitismacy'. So instead of mostly rubber-stamping, would have had an election during the summer. We Canada's Senate of electorate parliamentarians don't hold elections when we're in session, and that's could–will be in a position to push back again their why we haven't seen one as to date. But we will be counterparts in the lower house. Of course, all of holding one, and, like I said, I'm not psychic, but I'm that inevitably 'transplate'–translates into political pretty sure you'll be seeing one called very shortly, paralysis, partisan finger pointing and frequent Mr. Speaker, after session ends. political crisises. Does anyone really think that this But, you know, to have them talk about–all of would be healthier and better for the democratic the lack of facts that they put on record. I mean, I process as–and respective to the federal government? said it before, Mr. Speaker, you could sail the Titanic Now, I ask them again, Mr. Speaker, maybe now through their arguments and not scrape up against a they'll stand up after they heard these words, that fact. They talk a big game and all they do is put they would want to abolish the Senate, because no falsities on the record. matter how we do it, the Senate has outlived its The member for Emerson (Mr. Graydon) cries usefulness–$92.5 million a year in taxpayers' money all the time that the, oh, the economy's terrible, Mr. that could go back into our province and every other Speaker, it's terrible. Well, let's review this. When province to do good things like childcare and they were in power, unemployment was 7.6 per cent. education and health care. But no, no, they would What's it now? Five point three per cent. I would rather have plum positions. And I'm sure that the argue that that's a lot better for the province; more Leader of the Opposition is awaiting his appointment people are working, the unemployment rate's lower. to the Senate as we speak. We know that the current Prime Minister has appointed more senators than But, you know, the negative nellies over there any other Prime Minister, all from–all part–are can do nothing but complain about our province. All partisanship, all Conservative senators. And we we hear is about Saskatchewan and how great know that we have a Senate ripe with scandal, and Saskatchewan's doing. Well, they have potash, Mr. we know that the Prime Minister is involved in all of Speaker, and they have a bigger oil supply. And you it. I mean, the RCMP are investigating. know what? I encourage the members–once again, I'll offer to buy the one-way bus ticket for them to * (10:20) leave the province and move to Saskatchewan and But you know what? This group of people claim Regina. Maybe they can become MLAs in Regina, to be the ones who are the champions of the public because that's where they think it's better. interest. I would question that very deeply, that the Conservative Party has anything to do with the I am going to stay in Manitoba where I was born interest of–the public interest. and raised, in the province that I love, and I'm sure that everybody on my side of the House agrees. And You know, it actually showed up again in the that's why we fight so hard every day in this House of Commons recently, underneath their party, Chamber, to make sure that they don't have their that they actually allowed businessmen and financial hands on the wheel, so unemployment rates don't go people to present at a committee hearing and made up and that businesses and financial institutions sure that when labour wanted to present, they were aren't going to be the ones who are–the almighty the next day. Oh, and guess what happened the buck doesn't rule this province, Mr. Speaker. next day? Oh, it was too late for labour to present and make changes to the omnibus bill, the over We value our labour. We value people in this 300 pages that's being presented right now as we province. We have raised the minimum wage every speak in the House of Commons. The champions of year that we've been in power, compared to when democracy, Mr. Speaker, over there, oh, look at them they were in, twice–twice in 10 years, and a paltry go. They make sure that the labour parties couldn't 50 cents, Mr. Speaker. And they think that they're the ask for changes to a 300-page omnibus bill. champions of people in this province and they're the champions of poverty and they're the champions of So for them to say that they're the champion of democracy? democracy and that we should hold an election within six months is such a falsehood. They're trying The greatest scandal ever with the Monnin to make an issue out of something that it's not. Had inquiry, the Senate scandal that's going on right now they have not held us in the House all summer–like I with all of the senators being appointed and the said, which we were all enjoyed being here–we rampant spending. Mr. Speaker, I implore people to November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 451 pay attention to this bill and to the hypocrisy of it Well, Mr. Speaker, what's very, very clear, they when they're talking about trying to be the did not want to have a by-election in Morris because democratic party of this province. they would see what happened with their support. And so they held it back while they could do the Right after session, like I said, I'm sure that we'll ribbon-cutting, that they could run with their scissors see a nice election being called. And maybe the from one ribbon to another. The only place in Leader of the Opposition can buy some warmer Manitoba that was really expanding was the ribbon boots so he can canvass in the snow and not freeze factory. his tootsies off and have to blame the Premier (Mr. Selinger). But the reason that they did not want that by- election was the people in the province of Manitoba Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. would see the collapse for the support of the NDP Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): It gives me pleasure party. So, along comes a by-election, federal by- to rise and speak to Bill 20 that's been put forward by election, and I have to say right now and put on the my good colleague from Steinbach. record, that Merv Tweed did a great job in this province. Vic Toews was a great asset to this Democracy for voters, isn't that something? province, as well, federally. Both of them have Isn't–and that's a statement, Mr. Speaker, that we moved on to other things in private life and to have should all be proud of, democracy for voters. We some time with their families but they're replaced should be proud that we can go out to our voters and with two great candidates. Ted Falk from Steinbach say, look, this is what we plan on doing in the future. is now an MP in Ottawa and will do a great job for This is what we want–this is why we want you to Manitoba. Larry Maguire, that sat in this House for support us in the next Legislature and the next many, many years and proved that his ability to government in this province. represent the people of Arthur-Virden, has done a This bill says that, very, very clearly, that great job as well. taxation without representation is unlawful. And yet And what did we see, what was the result of the for the party across the way, it doesn't matter to by-elections? The result was a complete collapse of them. NDP support, not just in rural Manitoba, not just in What we've just heard now is the member for Ste. Anne, where the Green Party outstripped them, St. Norbert (Mr. Gaudreau) auditioning for the drama beat them up, two to one in some of the polls in club there. Didn't put anything on the record that Ste. Anne, a stronghold for one of the members on made any sense whatsoever. What he did say, opposite. At the same time, his colleague was though, was he's opposed to lying. Well, let's say– throwing him under the bus and AMM saying, we're let's take a look now, when in the last election, in sorry that you were so surprised by our announce- 2011, what we've seen very clearly was we went ment of killing the heritage of this province by door to door and we went, hi, I want your support. forcing amalgamations throughout rural Manitoba. I'm not going to raise taxes. I'm not going to raise But, Mr. Speaker, the reason that they would not taxes. Nonsense. Nonsense. We're not going to raise call a by-election and give the people of Manitoba the PST. the opportunity to have representation in this House was because they were afraid of the collapse that But what happened, Mr. Speaker? What they knew had taken place. That's a very main reason happened was very clear: the first opportunity that that they took the vote tax in the province, so that they got to raise taxes, to broaden the PST in the they would not have to go door to door and say, I province of Manitoba, what did they do, they want your support, can you give me some money? broadened it wider than ever, the tax increase in No. We'll take it out of your back pocket without you Manitoba was the biggest in the century. What knowing. That's what they have said to the people of happens next? The next year they don't have enough, Manitoba. they don't have enough and so then they say we're going to raise the PST but their advisors said, no, Complete disrespect and at the same time I'm not you can't do that, you'd be breaking the law. You calling the by-elections in the province, what they would be breaking the law in Manitoba. They said, have done then is that they've been able to go never mind the law. We're over–we're above the law. and make announcement after announcement after The people in Manitoba can't do anything. announcement to offset the bad news from what they 452 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013 had said in 2011 when they went door to door and they have no idea how to run a business. They said we will not raise taxes, we will not raise the shouldn't be in business. All they need to do is create PST. They fooled the people of Manitoba once but the environment, and to help them create that they did not fool them in the federal by-elections. environment, they need to call that by-election for There was a complete collapse of their support, even the constituency of Morris so that it can be properly in Brandon East, a stronghold, complete collapse of represented here. the NDP support. They're not interested. They're not Those fine folks deserve a voice in this interested in respect; they're not interested in Legislature. The same as everyone in the seats that democracy. They're interested in breaking the law you represent, they deserve that same voice in this and taking money unlawfully out of the back very Legislature. But we see members like this pockets of the people of Manitoba. They are a tired, member from St. Norbert that would deny out-of-gas, bottom-of-the-barrel government with no democracy outside of the city of Winnipeg. It's okay new ideas, Mr. Speaker. They don't value democracy for him, but it's not okay for the rest of the province, at all. and that's a shame. It's shameful that he would stand * (10:30) up in this House and deny the people of Morris, deny the people of Arthur-Virden the right to be Mr. Speaker, the tired, old, bottom-of-the-barrel represented in this great House here and represent government has no new ideas. When they took the their area in the province of Manitoba. tax money, they didn't–they're not telling the people They have views. They have needs. And what of Manitoba the real reason. Oh, no, we have–I think we've seen is they've said, oh, now, what we're going now we've got 35 priorities, 35 priorities that they to–we're going to shut down a bridge now going into presented in this House, everywhere from splash Morris. With no alternative, we'll shut that bridge pads to hospitals to highways to schools, but no real down for four months. What impact is that going priority. They've cut front-line services continually. to have on the commerce in Morris? I know They've cut them continually, and just an example is the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Gaudreau) wouldn't the 19 ERs that are closed now. We have cut to–cuts understand commerce because he's never been in to education. We have cuts to infrastructure. Two, business. He's never created a job, the same as many three years in a row, the infrastructure budget was of his colleagues in this House have never done that. never maxed out. They did not do what they said they would do. They raised the gas tax and that was But representation in democracy is the backbone dedicated to potholes. What they didn't say was it of this province. Call a by-election. Call a was dedicated to making the potholes, not to fixing referendum on the PST. Quit breaking the law. them. Mr. Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, I All of the things that they have said they were really feel privileged to speak in this Assembly, going to do, they did not do, and they have no coming from an isolated village from the Third intentions of doing it. What we don't know for sure is World country. And being one of the greatest what our bond rating is going to be going forward. country, one of the better–best country in the world Even with the increase in taxes, increase in the PST, and to be in the Assembly, that's a great honour to be I fear that our bond rating is going to go down. I can here. And also I feel really humbled by the support I understand that they don't understand finance. got from my constituents. And you know in The They've never been in business. There's no one Maples there's not only an election, there's also on that side of the House except one farmer that's nominations. You have to fight each and every inch, actually been in business, that's actually made a and people supported me wholeheartedly, and this is paycheque for someone, that has created a job in the a great honour. province with their own money, not with someone We–under the circumstances, sometimes we are else's money. forced; not every immigrant come as an economic Government can't give you something that they immigrant, because of that, but they come–also they haven't taken from someone else, and these people have to come over here because we have such a great are great at taking stuff, but they do not create an democracy so people can have their rights and environment for free enterprise in this province. We people can have their responsibilities. And let me tell have lost 143 jobs a day for the last month, Mr. you one story. I went to get my papers attested to the Speaker. That's their record. It speaks clearly that magistrate, and still the guard would not let me go, November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 453 and–because I would not pay him 10 rupees, and circumstances you don't need to increase tax, sure, every time I will be bypassed. So then I rushed–after you don't have to when you say we are not. But when about six hours waiting, I rushed to the magistrate. I circumstances change and you want to make sure said, are you guys accepting bribery, because he's that public's being–or could be solved. In that case, asking for $10. Do you have any share in that, and he you have to do something. If a federal government is said, no, I don't have. I swear on that. Because why asking–telling that if you spend on infrastructure we you are not testing my paper? So he tested my paper. will pay 50 per cent, we don't want to miss those chances. So circumstances change. That's why we So since then I told my father, I said, you know, have to increase 1 cent for one dollar. this country needs change and I don't have enough money to get elected over here. I want to go to a But who will get hurt? Who will let the people foreign country where I can make money. Although will get hurt. Normally, ordinary people, how much everybody thinks a lot–immigrants think they will go are they going to spend every month? So maybe to the other country and there will dollars on the tree. hardly $15 per month that they will have to pay He will shake and then he will rake and–but that more? But rich people, they have–buy big items. never happens. Those big items cost money, lots of money. So it hurt the poor rich people, not the ordinary people. And so I mean to say because of that corrupt Ordinary people are hurt if we cut the services, if system and because of when people are poor start to we–the–if the day I'm not able to send the children to leave, and why that corrupt system we have to look the school, if they're not able to take service in the at in the public finance. And public finance is a– hospital and if they have to pay for to go to the sometimes being criticized of–from the other party doctor, if they have to pay for part of operation, that's like this vote tax. It's not vote tax. It's advancement where it will hurt. of democracy [inaudible] So that's why that's very important. So to make sure that ordinary people don't hurt and we make sure the economy keeps going on, we In India, I previously mentioned, a party takes have to increase 1 cent per dollar. But, again, every support like that. There's no public finance. After ordinary people should think, will that really will you get elected, then you have to raise money for the hurt them or it will hurt their [inaudible] partner so if next election. So what the party will do, they will tell they're hurt we ask them to go to doctor pay the user the civil servant to get bribery and their share will go fees, or if we tell them go to the school and the from bottom to the–up to chief minister we call a children have to now pay a fee over there, or if the premier over here. So that kind of system is created student and the university did not get that 60 per cent because of them no public finance. back, that will hurt–that will hurt. And I–sometime I wonder, does this PC party, * (10:40) they want to create that kind of a system. I'd– personally I don't want, because I ran from that So, therefore, we should think about the system. An immigrant, I ran from that system. We democracy. Some people–for some people, want a system where people can, according to their democracy is dirty; for other people, democracy is ambitions, according to their ability, according their sacred. I think you can look at Mike Duffy, you can ambition to serve the public, they can be elected not look at the Prime Minister's office, and there's because they had deep pockets. This system, if we something–dirty play was done there. And you can don't have public finance this system will create their also look at the Monnin inquiry. So that's where– system. Only people with deep pockets, they will be that's the dirty politics of people just wanting to be in able to elected. power, doesn't matter what they have to do. You know, those people who have seven, a But on the other hand, look at Tommy Douglas, garage for seven cars, they will understand ordinary who created the system that people can be served people? No, they won't, because they will say tough according to their needs, and they can get medical luck. We want to people–take people along with us service according to their needs, not according to so that nobody should be left behind, everybody their deep pockets. That's the sacred of politics. should be taken care of. And it's also sacred politics–make sure all the Sometimes I think that person that is wise who services are being given to ordinary people. That's adjusts according to the circumstances. If there are again sacred politics. It's not a sacred policy, it's 454 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013 tough luck and you are left, you're alone. If you die, forward by the honourable member for Steinbach if you live, that's tough luck. So those people who (Mr. Goertzen). preach tough luck, how they can be sympathizers of I think it's very important that we all have proper the ordinary people? Sometimes they fool. They say, representation in a timely manner, and many of us we are very close to you; we will take of your were at AMM yesterday and yesterday evening at poverty. We will take–how you will take care of the banquet, and while I was there, I did run into poverty by cutting $500 million? How you will take a number of people–councillors and reeves and care of poverty by doing all those things? How you mayors–representing areas that are included in the will take care of ordinary people if you have private two constituencies that are currently unrepresented– home care? Morris, which is approaching a year without repre- So all those things–look around to all those sentation, and Arthur-Virden, which has just recently things. How these people–although–think they are become without representation. And they were very close to ordinary people, no, no. They are all very concerned that they would be given an fooling–they try to fool the ordinary people. They are opportunity to have proper representation in a timely just for–work for the rich people. They are work–for manner. And, frankly, they were a bit frustrated that the business. And so, again, I–the way I was saying– it has taken as long–in particular in the Morris like, I have seen–even look at the business, how they constituency–to make any move on that. There has will do the business, how business happen and it's been plenty of opportunities to do that. over the country. Politicians–they want a share of the business. If you don't pay the share, [inaudible] I know that there are some rules around ribbon example, restaurant. If you want to–if you don't want cuttings that probably have been an issue with why to pay that share, what they will do, they will stop the government has chosen not to call that, but the the lease over there and the police won't let people bottom line here is not about convenience for go over there. That's really what they are forced to government; it's about proper representation for the do. So that's the system, I think, the opposition wants people in the constituency. to create. And I know that many of us on this side of the And that's why I think it's very, very important House have had to help people out that are actually having public finance. Don't say it–a vote tax; say it in the Morris constituency. I have spent a fair bit of advance–democracy advancement fund. So I think time representing people that were not really my they have to adjust their terminology and adjust their constituents in that case, but had called my office or thinking. come to my attention with issues that related to government problems and needed assistance from an And as far as it goes for elections, you know, MLA, and I was certainly prepared to act on their every day they will call an election, because our behalf and help them out. And it was a wide range of opposition leader will force–he may have forced issues. I mean, some of it was infrastructure issues; Larry to go to Ottawa. He was forced by Filmon to some of it was taxation issues, without a doubt. go to Ottawa. Maybe that's the habit. He may have forced Mavis to quit. So then, what will–how we can But the ones that really concerned me are often get granted that he won't force to–another member getting timely access to health care, in which we had who comes in. a number in the constituency of Morris. And you can say, well, they can survive without a year of But as far as to take care of the constituents, we representation, but if it comes to a health-care issue, are on building a highway and we are taking care of those are extremely timely, and to go even a few Morris. And to call every day elections, won't it cost months without proper representation when you're more money to the taxpayer? So they think–they having trouble getting the health-care system to should think awhile–twice to ask for that quick function as it's intended can be very important to an election, because otherwise every day will be an individual. And we certainly had a couple of cases election, every month will be an election. How that like that that we had to bring to the attention of the will help the public? minister's office and the minister to try and get a Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. resolution to in a timely manner. Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, So I think it's–that presses home to me how very I appreciate the opportunity to get up today and important it is for these people to have access to speak on Bill 200, democracy for voters, brought representation as much as possible and as efficiently November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 455 and as quickly as possible. And so I think that that's deserves good representation without any discipline really the issue here. We seem to be getting a lot of to–or any difference based on race, colour, creed or rhetoric about, you know, representation in general financial wherewithal. And I certainly agree with and who's doing what. The issue is the constituents, him. I think that that's something that the people of and the constituents are not being represented at this Morris actually deserve as well. They represent a point in time and they need to be represented because wide range. I'm sure that there's no particular group, they have significant issues. certainly, held in that constituency that is unique to that constituency. It's part of the fabric of Manitoba Now, I mentioned earlier that we were all at–or and they deserve good representation accordingly. many of us were at AMM and we certainly heard a lot of discussion there about a number of issues, So I know that there are a number of people that certainly the amalgamation being one that came up want to speak to this issue, so I certainly appreciate very often for many of the constituents from all the opportunity to put a few words on record. I hope across the rural areas, and they are very concerned the government moves–and moves in a timely that that will have an impact on their futures and manner–to deal with this issue. I certainly encourage change the nature of their communities without them not to put it off much longer. I know that co-operation and consultation with the people in their there'll be a lot of people that probably aren't real communities. happy that it may occur over the Christmas season. Those are the realities. You have to do what you And they're very frustrated that they do not feel have to do. Certainly, we want to have these people that they are being heard. And this seems to be a well represented, and the sooner the better. consistent theme with this government. The people of Morris are not being heard because they are not Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. being represented. Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, It would seem that there are a number of other good morning. It's always a pleasure to rise to speak areas in the province where the municipalities and on the topic of democracy, but it just strikes me as their views are not being heard. And it would seem bizarre that the Leader of the Opposition has the that the people of Manitoba in general are not being audacity to bring this topic to the fore. I think he's heard. We didn't get a referendum on the increase to working on the old advertising principle, if you the PST when we probably should have under the repeat something often enough that ultimately the legislation. public is going to buy into it. So, you know, I expect that he'll be up again and again and again, I guess maybe court challenges will determine repeating how democratic and freedom-loving the whether that was actually correct or not and you can Conservatives across this land are, and, well, I will– certainly expect government certainly should be I'll dwell on that for a few minutes here. looking forward to a good, robust court challenge to find out if they're doing things within the law, * (10:50) because a government that doesn't act within the law Mr. Speaker, having come from the Interlake, should not be in place. obviously, the first point to make would be, as many have referred to already, discussing the vote rigging So, certainly, we hope that we can move forward back in 1995 with the Monnin inquiry and the list of with this by-election as soon as possible, not only characters. It's–well, they say truth is stranger than here, but in Arthur-Virden, and I think it's fiction, and when you look at the who's who of particularly important that we remember we're doing the Tory party that was involved in that odious this for good representation in the constituency, episode, Julian Benson, Treasury Board chair, Arni because these are the people that we should be Thorsteinson, one of the biggest bagmen– concerned about. The rest of it is often just general rhetoric about government, but people need to have An Honourable Member: Uncle Cubby. proper representation. There has been wars fought Mr. Nevakshonoff: Well, somebody said Uncle over good representation going back hundreds of Cubby. And a member opposite, actually, mentioned years. Uncle Cubby, my mother's brother, also a Tory A number of initiatives–I know the honourable kingpin, one of the biggest in the Interlake, and a member for–or the member for Maples brought good bagman in the millionaire tradition. Yes, he forward the issue of good representation. Everyone was totally embroiled in that fiasco. 456 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013

And in the subsequent fiasco in 1999, I have to lead this province? Vote riggers, slanderers, smear say, once again, if I thought 1995 was the low point, campaigners, electoral fraud, the list goes on and on. the smear campaign that was orchestrated against me You know, let's look to the Senate. Everybody's personally in 1999 took it to an even lower level than watching that, and Mr. Maguire almost lost his seat that. And, you know, and–on that occasion, though, because of the fiasco that's currently under way in there were actually some convictions. I won't Ottawa here. The bagmen there, it's beyond belief. mention any names because–[interjection] Or can I? You know, Jim Love, chairman of the Canadian I won't. I'll keep that under my hat. Mint, had to recently step down. Nigel Wright, But we all know that the individual that was another millionaire, the chief of staff to the Prime convicted of obstruction of justice and defamation of Minister, embroiled in bribery and so forth. The fat a candidate was no less than the campaign manager cats, former journalists–Pamela Wallin touring the for the Conservative candidate in the Interlake. So country racked up a bill of $300,000 on–what do definitely the dots were connected over that event, they call it? Networking events–networking events– and the public was wise enough, once again, to what is a networking event? Well, it's a just another figure out that the Conservatives were up to their old forum to squeeze their corporate clients for as much vote-rigging tricks and, once again, returned a New money as they can. Democrat to office. And speaking of corporate clients, well, let's compare our record here, Mr. Speaker. And I was Oh, the clock is ticking fast here, Mr. Speaker. here in 1999 when the Gary Doer government was I do have to rush. I just took a few notes down this first elected and took office. What was the first thing morning, and suddenly I have four pages of Tory that this–that our government did at that time? The bagmen. Where should I go first here? first act through this Legislature was a ban on union Well, they mentioned Mr. Maguire, and the one and corporate donations. That set the bar–that set the thing that strikes me is that he abandoned his bar going forward, that's one of the main reasons we constituency, left it mid-term, typical Tory oppor- are still the government today, 15 years later, four tunist, and I have to think back, well, who else on terms in office, unprecedented in modern Manitoba that side did this in the past? history because of that, as much as anything. Because that's what the people want–that's what the And I think that the–no less, the Leader of the people want. They don't want bagmen, they don't Official Opposition (Mr. Pallister) did the very same want bribery, they don't want convicted fraudsters; thing himself back in 1997, and what happened in they want people who are going to govern fairly and 1997? What was it, the flood of the century, no less, honestly and above board and above the table most Mr. Speaker, and what was his position? What was of all, that's what really matters–above the table. his position at the time? He was the Minister And, you know, returning to the bad old days responsible for Emergency Measures. So here you where big companies can donate $100,000 or a have the man that wants to be a premier, wants to be $1 million, no limit to the amount that they can put the next premier of Manitoba, when faced with one into the Tory party coffers. That's where they want to of the greatest disasters of the last century here in go back to, and then what happens? Well, then, of Manitoba, what did he do? Jumped ship, opportunist course, the government of the day, a Conservative that he was, went to Parliament and continued to do government, would be beholden to these big what Tories do, I guess, obfuscate and obstruct and companies, and all laws, all policies, the movement so forth. So there you have it. of the province would be geared toward these big You know, but let me continue on with my list companies, and that's not what Manitobans want. here. Vic Toews was mentioned. The member for And we also banned union donations to political Emerson (Mr. Graydon) was saying what a paragon parties as well, to be fair. We said right off the bat of democracy and what a fine man he was. Well, that we were not going to be anybody's slave in what was his position when he was in the Filmon office, we were going to govern for all people Cabinet? He was the Minister of Justice, Mr. honestly and fairly. And what do you know, we're Speaker, the Minister of Justice. What's the record still here; 14 years and four terms later, we're still with him? Another Tory convicted in a court of law, here and we will remain here, is what I think, a Minister of Justice had to plead guilty to electoral because the people of Manitoba, well, they value fraud, my goodness, is this the party that wants to things. They value things like Crown corporations, November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 457 you know, government-managed utilities, certain RESOLUTIONS things like telephone companies or hydro, for Mr. Speaker: The hour being 11 a.m., it's time for instance, or even highways. These are things that private members' resolutions. cost money and people need them, utilities such as this. Res. 2–Failure to Call the Morris Constituency By-Election It's best if governments manage them, that way they can serve areas that are not necessarily Mr. Speaker: And the resolution under profitable. Like, rural areas comes to mind, where, consideration this morning is sponsored by the you know, delivering cellphone service in Matheson honourable member for Steinbach, and the title of the Island, for example, not much money there, but if it resolution is Failure to Call the Morris Constituency was owned by a government they would deliver that By-Election. service because it's equal for all. You give it to the Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I move, private sector, of course, no cellphone service in seconded by the member for La Verendrye Matheson Island to this very day. (Mr. Smook), that Where would a future Conservative government WHEREAS the Morris constituency has been go when it comes to Crown utilities? Well, Manitoba without an elected Member of the Legislative Hydro, we're pretty sure about that. But we should Assembly since February 12th, 2013; and also bear in mind that the Public Insurance WHEREAS the Premier has the sole Corporation, that's where they would really go in my responsibility and ability to call by-elections to fill opinion. And again, the Leader of the Opposition vacant seats; and very well versed in the sale of insurance and all that, you know, I'm sure that there's quite a few of his WHEREAS the constituents have been without buddies would be rushing to the fore. representation in this Chamber for over nine months due to the Premier's refusal to carry out his Privatizing health care, that's another thing they obligation to call a by-election. would do. We're talking about a bill–a $5-billion budget, Mr. Speaker–$5-billion budget, Tories across THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the the land are slavering at the mouth at the thought of Legislative Assembly of Manitoba acknowledge that getting into that industry, privatizing it. Oh, they the Premier has been derelict in his duties for failing would never do that they say. Well, they tried to to allow the people of Morris constituency to elect a privatize Home Care when the Filmon government representative to the Assembly within a reasonable was in office. They went to the United States– time of the seat becoming vacant. Mr. Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The member for Steinbach, seconded by the honourable honourable member's time has expired. member for La Verendrye, Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, WHEREAS the Morris constituency has been the opposition should 'shup' debating this measure without an elected– and have a vote. We should have the by-election in Morris. Please call the vote. An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense? Dispense. Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): What does he–what was–Mr. Speaker, I didn't understand what the–I Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, good morning. It is didn't understand what the member for River Heights regrettable that this resolution has had to come was saying. He talked about the opposition not forward. It carries on with a theme from the private debating this resolution–or this bill. But in the short members' business on bills about the lack of time I have this morning to discuss it, I want to– accountability and the lack of democracy within the NDP government for failing to call the Morris * (11:00) by-election in a timely manner. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. When this matter's We know that all Manitobans deserve to be again before the House, the honourable member for represented in this Chamber; that is the function of Selkirk will have nine minutes remaining. our democratic system, that each of us represent a set 458 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013 number of people to bring their views to this constituency issues, constituency matters, and our Assembly. And there are important things that constituents call our offices and they are looking for happen in this Assembly and there have certainly some help in navigating government or trying to get been important things that have happened in the last a resolution for something that's happening within year that would impact the Morris constituency. government, and that doesn't happen when you don't have an MLA, doesn't happen as effectively. We know that the debate around the PST tax increase, for example, Mr. Speaker, is something that Now, I suppose the government could say, well, the constituents of Morris would have been greatly we're representing all of those people, and they can interested in and certainly would have wanted to certainly call us, but that certainly is not a have a representative here in the Legislature to replacement, and that's the reason why we have 57 of discuss those issues. There are sometimes issues that us here elected to represent constituents and to help happen outside of this Assembly that impact them with a lot of those issues that aren't always the constituencies that we represent. This morning I top-of-the-mind issues in the news and aren't always heard Shannon Martin, who is the Conservative the things that get the headlines but ultimately need nominee, on radio this morning talking about some to be dealt with and need to have representation. unfortunate issues surrounding the community of The government has brought forward a series of Morris. I would say that he spoke eloquently and he different excuses, Mr. Speaker, in terms of why they spoke well but he did not speak as the MLA because have not called this by-election. I think all of them they do not have an MLA in that area yet. And that have fallen woefully short; all of them have not is simply unacceptable because when there are proven to be correct. At first, of course, we heard the issues that come up, whether they are positive issues government say they wouldn't call the Morris or negative issues, it's important that there are by-election because they were expecting a massive representatives to be able to come forward and speak flood, either on the Red River or the Assiniboine, to those issues. and the riding is located on both of those waterways. And that has not happened with this particular And, of course, ultimately, that was proven not to be government. They have not allowed the fine people correct. And even during the time when the govern- of that constituency to have representation. They ment was suggesting that these things were going to have not allowed them to have somebody to come to happen, there were many in those communities, this Legislature and express their views or to respond including the mayor or the reeve of Morris who to things that are happening in the community with indicated that it was hyperbole and that there was no the mantle of being the MLA, Mr. Speaker. And that evidence, whether it was the US weather forecast or is important and there is value to that, to ensure that the snowpack amounts along the Red River, in somebody is there to represent those views and those particular, that would cause that kind of concern to issues. be happening. So that excuse faded away, and then later on we heard the government indicate that they I know that all of us bring here our own wouldn't call the Morris by-election because this perspectives and our own ideas but ultimately we do House was sitting in the summer, and I'm sorry if represent the people of the ridings that we are elected members didn't get the summer vacation that they to represent and we try to do that, I think, honourably wanted, but, you know, there were important things and try to do that with all the best intentions. I might to be discussed. And I know that sometimes not always agree and often don't agree with the government has to be able to walk and chew gum at perspectives of the members opposite but they also the same time. And I don't think it would have been a have a responsibility and their responsibility is to difficult thing for a government to have a by-election represent the views of their constituents. And we can while the House was sitting. have a debate about whether or not they do that in a In fact, we just saw recently the two federal way that is representative of how their constituents by-elections in the province of Manitoba that took feel and the PST might be one of the primary place at the same time that the House of Commons in examples of that, Mr. Speaker, but there are probably Ottawa was sitting, and I would suggest, Mr. other reasons as well that we need to ensure that Speaker, that the time you'd most want to have a there is a voice here for constituents. representative is when the House is actually sitting, Certainly, we know that there are people who because you'd want them here to be representing have issues within government. We call them your views. But that is not the tack that the NDP November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 459 took. In fact, they took quite the opposite tack. They year and will probably go to very close to the did not want to have somebody here representing the statutory limit. We've, in the past, been able to rely Morris constituents at a time when there was a lot on the honour of premiers to ensure that they called going on in the Legislature and a lot of vigorous by-elections relatively quickly, Mr. Speaker. This debate around the PST and, in fact, that debate is still one will go longer than, I think, any by-election in going on and there still isn't a representative. about 20 or 30 years. So clearly we're not able to rely on the honour of the current Premier (Mr. Selinger) Fast forward, then, after the session concluded, to ensure that he does the right thing and ensure that the government then shifted to a new excuse and people get representation in a timely manner. And so indicated that they didn't want to call a by-election we've had to bring attention forward to it in other because there were federal by-elections. Now, ways through legislation and through a resolution. interestingly enough, Mr. Speaker, those federal by-elections were called within a relatively short * (11:10) time period of time, under six months, and the So I would simply say to the government that we national government was able to fill the vacant seats are already at the eleventh hour, and I suspect they'd that were vacant here in Manitoba, in Ontario and in have no choice but to call the by-election relatively Québec, and already those members of Parliament shortly, but they need to reflect. They need to reflect are in Ottawa and I suppose will be sworn in soon. on what it is that they've done and what it is they've And yet here we still have this vacancy in Morris and done to the people of Morris by not giving them we're not able to have representation for the good a voice in this Legislature, by not allowing them people of the Morris constituency, which ultimately to have that voice. We hear often the–and we've leads people to the unhappy conclusion that the heard it from the Minister of Infrastructure who has government isn't calling the by-election very quickly trumpeted certain things that are happening in because they don't believe they're going to win Morris, and he says he's representing them, but, in the by-election and they don't want to have reality, he doesn't. He represents the fine people of representation from another party. Thompson, and Morris deserves to have their own Now, I'm not going to predict the outcome of representative. They deserve to have their own voice this by-election or any other by-election. I believe here in the Legislature. that people have to determine that for themselves and And it's a shame that, I think, the government people's votes matter and people will go and exercise has put partisan politics–and I think they have. I'm their democratic rights. But it certainly does lead one left with no other conclusion, although it's an to believe that there are other motives at play here. unhappy conclusion, that they have put partisan When all of the other excuses have fallen away, politics ahead of what is right for democracy and we're sort of left with the idea that the government what is right for the people of the Morris doesn't want to call the by-election because they constituency. don't think they're going to be successful in that by-election. Well, I would say, Mr. Speaker, that it's So I hope that the government will heed these not about them. The issue isn't about whether or not calls. I hope that they will have learned something, they're going to win the by-election or not. The issue and perhaps they'll agree to support the bill that we is about ensuring that representatives in Morris have debated in the earlier hour when it comes forward as someone here to bring forward their views. It's not an assurance that this sort of situation won't happen about whether this government is going to be again and that real democracy will always be put successful in the by-election. It's not about whether ahead of partisan politics. we as Progressive Conservatives will be successful Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. or whether the Liberals will be successful or the Green Party. It's not about the outcome of the Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St. Norbert): It kind of feels election. It's about ensuring that somebody has–or a little bit like Groundhog Day, that we're speaking that people of Morris have the–a representative here about the same thing again in this hour, but I'm in the Legislature. That is the important part, not the pleased to be up yet again to speak on this bill. outcome. I listened intently to the member for Steinbach So I regret that we've had to put so much (Mr. Goertzen), and he was talking about attention both through a resolution and a bill on the accountability. I'd like to know if the accountability fact that that seat has been vacant now for almost a extends to his party, Mr. Speaker. Jim Love, being 460 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013 the member that the Prime Minister of Canada Opposition's area, oh, they whined, it's too soon. It's appointed to be the head of the Canadian Mint, who August. Oh my goodness, it's family time. Then they helped move money offshore for the Conservatives whine when we say, well, you know what, there's a to save on tax dollars–$8 million to be exact. Now flood. And we're going to prolong it, and then they I'm wondering if he supports that, that the Prime held us in the House, so now we're going to do it. Minister appointed this gentleman who happened to We're still within the time frame mandated by law, be involved in this scandal. In fact, if you listen to and we're going to do it, and the members from the university of Laval tax professor, Adrian Laure, Morris will have great representation, I'm sure. he says, if I were the CRA, I would like to have a Now, it seems to be on their side of the House look at that and analyze all of the transactions that that it's all about negative and complaining. I don't were carried on here. I wonder if the member understand it, but, you know, the member for opposite's going to support that. Is he going to speak Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) has his conspiracy theories out against his own party and his Prime Minister that about why we haven't called the election. Maybe his there's a lack of accountability? views are that, you know, the shooter in the grassy How about Nigel Wright, Mr. Speaker? Is that knoll was actually Hoffa wearing a tinfoil hat–I don't the accountability he's talking about? Maybe he's know, but he seems to have all these great talking about Mike Duffy. Oh, maybe he's talking conspiracy theories about things. about Pamela Wallin. Maybe he's talking about I then listened earlier to this member for Senator Brazeau. How about senator Flett that was Emerson (Mr. Graydon) who complimented the great involved in running their campaign while working as new Member of Parliament for the La Verendrye a senator and taking in tax dollars? How about area and–Provencher area, sorry, Mr. Speaker–and senator Glover who overspent on her campaign I'm kind of disappointed that the member for expenses? Maybe she's talk–maybe he's talking about Emerson took that stance, because that member for senator–or, sorry, he's talking about MP Bezan, Provencher was in the news saying that he thinks that who's currently embroiled in a court case with his Evan Wiens fabricated the whole thing. That is overspending on his election. Maybe he's talking shameful. That young man has gone through more about the Honourable Mr. Toews, who was than any–most of us in this House have gone through convicted of a crime. All of those people that I in our lives, and he's not even 18 yet and he's gone mentioned–I mean, the list can go on and on, but through some very traumatic events, and the MP for those are all people that he's talking about that area discounted them as that he was just lying accountability, those are all from his party. Whoa, and not telling the truth. And the member for look at that. You want to talk about the bastion of Emerson says that he thinks he's a great member. accountability over there on that side of the floor? I Well, I guess we know where the member for think not. Emerson stands. He certainly doesn't stand with You know, I listened to him talk about the flood, Evan Wiens. and he said, you know, that we have used it as an Now, you know, Mr. Speaker, we hear about the excuse to not call an election. You know what, Mr. member for Emerson always complaining–the Speaker? We were busy preparing for a flood. You cross-border shopping we're going to–the PST is know what they did when they were in power? The going to raise–the people that will go cross-border mayor of Morris said they had one sand bag in the shopping. Well, the federal government raised the flood of '97. They were ill-prepared. Yes, we were limit to cross-border shopping to $800, the federal preparing, and with the amount of snowfall we had, government, the Conservative government. We didn't everybody thought that there was a flood coming. hear anything from them complaining about it when Luckily, we had a great, long, cold spring– that happened–[interjection] No, now, okay, okay, unfortunately for us motorcyclists–but we had a that's been done. It's been done for a little bit of time long, cold spring that saw a very, very prolonged and everybody agrees that, yes, people are going melt, and we did not see that flood. But had we have cross-border shopping because the federal govern- called the election and a flood would've happened, ment raised the cap. He's now saying that people are I'm sure that the other side of the House would've going to drive from Emerson–and I'll give him that. whined about it too. I'll go from Emerson because it's right on the border– You know, they whine when we talk about a and they're going to go to Grand Forks for the short call. When we did it for the Leader of the weekend to save, get this, $8; 1 per cent PST on November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 461

$800 is $8, because you're allowed to bring back for Emerson (Mr. Graydon). I will read it out very $800. But what he doesn't count in is the fact that slowly into the record so he can understand me this unless he has some amazing vehicle, which I'd love time, because I know last time he seemed to have to know about, you got to drive there. So there's gas, some difficulty with the facts: What happened to the and I'm betting that it's more than eight bucks to get independence of the Senate? Then: It is a place now there. He also doesn't count on that you got to stay populated with elected party politicians. How would for 48 hours, so there's a couple of hotels. Oh, oh, I that impact the independent thinking and sober guess he gets free hotels when he's down there, but thought of the Red Chamber? Clearly, one should be Conservatives seem to have things that are on the concerned about that level of partisanship and take all the time. Then you also got to factor in politicalization beyond what it already is that an food. You know, they want to talk about going elected Senate would foster. cross-border shopping to save $8, it's such a falsity. And, if you think that the involvement of the Like I said before, you could sail the Titanic through Prime Minister's office in the current Senate scandal their arguments and not hit a fact. is troubling, try to imagine the level of political You know, the New Democrats love Morris, and interference that would be if both the federal we're going to run hard in Morris and hopefully we'll government and the majority of senators, as the case win in Morris because, you know what? Those is today, belonged to the same party. Fearing people deserve a good representative, unlike the punishment, what sort of backroom deals, pressure representative that wanted to quit. She decided for tactics and horse trading would be going on in the whatever reasons, but she just walked away from her upper house then? According to those who advocate constituents. vigorously for elected Senate, should really be careful what they wish for. Elected senators not And, you know, they complain about represen- only fuel unhelpful partisanship and legislative tation, but it seems to be a pattern on their side of the obstructionism, but it also empowers those same House. We've seen two by-elections–well, we will senators to act on their legitimacy. see two by-elections coming up shortly on their side of the House. Look at our side of the House, Mr. * (11:20) Speaker, we're all here representing our people. They So instead of most rubber-stamping body, decided to walk away, we decided to represent, and Canada's Senate of elected parliamentarians would you know what? It's not just that time, it's past then be in a position to push back against their history. The Leader of the Opposition was the EMO counterparts in the lower house. Of course, all of that officer or EMO minister at the time in '97 when the inevitably translates into political paralysis, partisan flood was coming, and he decides, well, I'm going to finger pointing and frequent political crises. And quit and run for Parliament and, you know, he does anyone think that this would be healthy for wanted to be ambitious, he wanted to be the leader of our democratic process and responsive federal this country. Well, he didn't win that. He stayed for government? Now, I ask them, Mr. Speaker, do they two terms, got–made sure he got his pension in–and really think that? Do they think that that's the best then quit that, then came back to now try to be the way to go for Canada? Because they voted against leader of this province. Hopefully, that'll never the abolition of the Senate. happen. You know, I hear the Leader of the Opposition You know, they talk about all of this talk all the time that he's a self-made man and that transparency, but, I mean, everything that we see only people who create jobs matter. He waves his goes against that. They voted against the Senate–they finger at me saying, did you ever create one job? voted against the Senate, the very corrupt Senate that You know what? No, I don't create a job. But I they–they voted against it saying that there should be welded the bridges that that member drives over, and senator reform. And I read this into the debate last I work with the nurses who provide his family good time, Mr. Speaker, and I guess, you know, it's such a health care, and I'd like–and I support the teachers fantastic article, and maybe the member for Morris, that he wants to cut, that provide education to my he said that he didn't think that I had any good children and his children. This–the member of the facts to put on the record, maybe he just didn't opposition claims he's a self-made man. You know understand me. So I'm going to read very slowly for what, Mr. Speaker? I believe it, because he worships him so–[interjection]–Emerson, sorry, the member himself. He worships his own creator. 462 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013

It's unbelievable. The tax burden has been them, because they don't know what they're doing or shifted for the first time in Canada onto the taxpayer they don't care what–the people of Manitoba. You from corporations. It used to be that corporations know, Mr. Speaker, democracy is something that paid more. For the first time in the history of Canada, Manitobans value, respect and protect. Democracy now we are going to be–it's going to be the taxpayer establishes and protects the freedom of Manitobans that is paying more. as individuals and as a society. I mean, it's something that we all need to look at. They want to talk about being champions of democracy and justice. This is what's happening in We talk about the Senate scandals, we talk about their party, who's running the federal government everything else, but it has absolutely no relevance to right now: Senate scandals, appointing people to what the rights of Manitobans are. And that's exactly plum positions who are involved in illegal offshore what this bill and this resolution are about, is the moving of money. We're talking about corruption to rights of Manitobans–the rights of Manitobans to its core. And they want to talk about democracy, be able to express their opinion, the rights of Mr. Speaker? I think that if they want to talk about Manitobans to go out there and talk to their MLAs, proper representation, maybe they should stop talk to them and explain some of their problems so quitting, and start representing their ridings. they can get things straightened out. A lot of it has to do with financial help. And if they have no MLA, Thank you very much. who do they turn to? Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye): It's a pleasure The ministers can say, well, we're in to rise and put some words on record in regards to government, they can call us. But I'd like to know this important resolution. how many times phone calls aren't returned because I would like to thank and congratulate the they're just too busy to talk about some of these member from Steinbach for bringing forward this small issues. And as MLAs, that is our job. Our job resolution, Failure to Call the Morris Constituency is to represent the people of this province, not to By-Election. The member from Steinbach under- stand there and talk about the history of the past, not stands that Manitobans have the right to vote and to not help the people, but to do something for the have representation, and that's exactly what this people. resolution is about. This is the longest delay in calling a by-election I've been listening to the debate on the previous in the last 20 years, and I 'd like to ask the Premier bill and what has been put on record as far as this why. I mean, it's the Premier's sole responsibility to resolution goes, and Mr. Speaker, it has absolutely call this election. Does he himself not believe in the no relevance to the resolution. It shows what the rights of Manitobans? Or is he just looking for the members opposite think about the rights of the right date that'll work best for partisan politics for the people, of Manitobans. They talk about everything NDP? I mean, everybody in this province deserves to from the past. They go back to the Stone Age, and have representation in the fastest possible way, and they're not looking at what is going on here today. there's been a lot of time to have called a by-election And I'm glad that they're willing to put words on by now. record as to what their feelings are, because it'll show But this Premier (Mr. Selinger) is failing his the people of Manitoban–Manitoba what they're duty. He is failing his duty to the residents of really about. the Morris constituency. The Morris constituency I've been an MLA for two years now, and I deserves representation. By not calling a by-election, know that every day I receive phone calls, emails, the Premier is disrespecting all of Manitobans, not from constituents that need help. They ask questions. just Morris, or now in the Virden area, but all of A lot of them are easy to solve. A lot of them it takes them. And a lot of the things that are being put on a phone call to one of the ministers, and things get record here also totally disrespect Manitobans. I done. But when people don't have that option, where mean, the federal by-election that was just–two of do they turn to? them that were just held, you know, three months and five months. They were called, they were put I mean, obviously, some of the members into place, and things happened. opposite must not get phone calls, because their constituents probably have no confidence in them. This government of ours, it stated that, well, you They figure that these guys, there's no use phoning know, they want to have both elections at the same November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 463 time. But yet Elections Manitoba said it was no does that tell the citizens of the country? Everybody difference in cost to have them one at a time or two, knows that the hottest commodity going for but now they can call both of them, but they are not Christmas stockings this year is your Mike Duffy doing that. There's no cost savings to putting them political scandal bobblehead doll. I want a complete both at the same time, but just another NDP excuse. collector's set, you know, and I imagine there's going to be members opposite who will get their own doll Mr. Speaker, this resolution is a very important before too long if we don't get rid of the Senate in one, and I know that the NDP are just going to stand Ottawa. up there and speak it out, but I would ask them to really think carefully of what they're doing here by * (11:30) not allowing Manitobans the right to have a vote and They may believe, Mr. Speaker, that this the right to representation. A by-election should have supposedly sober and supposedly thinking, second- been called a long time ago, especially in Morris to handedly, Chamber in Ottawa is an appropriate make sure the people there can fulfill their rights. institution. In truth, it's a place for bagmen and Thank you, Mr. Speaker, because I know the bagwomen to go out and raise money for their NDP are just going to just jump up there and speak it political parties and to try and influence political out. events and elections from one end of this country to the other, from coast to coast to coast. And they don't Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Yes, they're setting do it using their own resources. They don't do it the bar real high with this one, Mr. Speaker. The using their own party funds. They do it using public idiocy surrounding this motion is almost physically money that is stolen from the public and funnelled palpable. To give you the TSN highlights here, one into the Senate chambers. That behaviour is perfectly of their folks quit; the last time one of their people normal if you're a Tory. If you're a Conservative, quit, they complained we called the by-election too taking public money and using it for your own quickly; now they're complaining that when another personal good–perfectly okay. If you are a Liberal, one of their people quit, it hasn't happened yet. So, taking public money and using it for your own whatever. personal good, that is absolutely acceptable. If you're The more interesting thing to me, Mr. Speaker, a New Democrat or if you're a normal person or if and I love it when Conservatives try to talk about you're someone who has more than two brain cells to fairness in elections. The rot that is at the core of the rub together, you look at that situation and you say, Conservative Party is something that I always enjoy that is absolutely unacceptable. reminding all Manitobans about, particularly the We brought forward a motion calling for the good citizens of Morris–not their fault that their Senate to be abolished, the most obvious policy MLA decided to walk away from her responsibilities decision any elected official in this country could to her constituents before her term was up. She went make. And we had the remarkable circumstance of around, door to door, saying vote for me. Oops, I had both opposition parties in Manitoba opposing us on a different idea; I'm going to leave now. That's not it. Thank goodness we have a clear majority, Mr. their fault. I think they're going to remember that Speaker. Common sense was able to carry the day, when we come around in the by-election and we put two days ago, here in the Chamber. up a very strong candidate and run a very strong campaign. The scandals that surround the Conservative Party, and also surround the Liberal Party–I–and let's Not the fault of the residents of Morris, but the not let them off the hook–are really quite residents of Morris will have a chance to say, is the pronounced. And, of course, they aren't limited to behaviour of their local Conservatives, whether they this particular time frame in Canada's history. be federal, whether they be provincial, or any other They're not limited to just the Senate. I–can you level, is that something that really deserves their vote imagine the communications challenge that the anymore? Prime Minister is facing when he finds out that the When we look at the Senate scandal that the person he put in charge of making all of our little Conservatives in Manitoba have fully endorsed, toonies and loonies for, you know, normal people to when we look at the Senate scandal which the lone use, was actually funnelling millions and millions of Liberal whatever he is now–not the leader, but that toonies and loonies illegally offshore to help–oh, guy–you know, he fully supported it. What on earth probably Conservative friends not pay money into 464 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013 the public purse, so that we as a Province do not little bit tired of this and they called for an election, have the money that we should be getting from and they threw the white cats out of office. And what Ottawa, because of these people, to then put into the did they do? They elected the black cats to come in very valuable infrastructure and social services that and to be their rulers. And this went back and forth every single Canadian is entitled? and back and forth throughout history, Conservative and Liberal fat cats taking their turns clobbering the The elite in this country look at the Senate as a country and destroying the public morale, until one tool to keep themselves as the elite. You knock out day a very brave mouse put up his little paw and he the Senate, you will do one of the most important said, why don't we elect a mouse to lead us? And things for democracy in this country as you possibly that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you end up with could. Conservatives over there are perfectly fine New Democratic governments in majority positions with multi-millionaires and the occasional billionaire making a positive difference for people all across the not paying their fair share in taxes, quite clearly. country. They are absolutely fine with putting people in charge of public institutions who are then robbing Something that all Canadians should keep in the public purse of the money that we need. I–it's mind when we see the Liberal Party, they hadn't often occurred to me, Mr. Speaker, that, you know, changed any. You know, they're voting against this type of behaviour and the selling off of Crown measures that would improve the planet, they're corporations, the giving away of government assets defending the Senate in Ottawa just as much as at bargain-basement prices, it reminds me that voting Harper is. That–why do you think our local lone Conservative is like hiring somebody to steal from Liberal guy, whatever he is now, why do you think you. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. he voted for it? It's because the new haircut, it's the new haircut that the Liberals have that's told them And we can even–[interjection] Yes, black cats that's the way you got to vote. That doesn't sound and white cats. You know, why not. Let's bring that very different to me, there's nothing else that's in here. That's–this is–Tommy Douglas, Canada's changed in the Liberal Party, they went to the barber most revered Canadian, the reason why all of the shop, they got a new haircut, now they're supposedly members opposite and all of their kids and all of all like new and improved and stuff, hasn't had a their grandparents, the only reason that they're able single policy idea come out yet. to walk into a public health facility and receive the care that they deserve and that they need is because And you know what, we'll have–[interjection] this party's Tommy Douglas fought for, implemented Well, there is also that piece. public medicare in Canada. And he had many You know what, there's so much material to beautiful speeches. And I would encourage members work here, Mr. Speaker. With my last 30 seconds, let opposite to do some research on the words of me just remind Manitobans of a local example of Tommy Douglas–not our only great spokesperson, how much Conservatives care about their electoral but one of them. And one of his favourite stories was rights: as many liars, that was what Judge Monnin Mouseland. And the version of it that I heard is he summed up our honourable Leader of the was campaigning in rural Saskatchewan, and Tommy Opposition's behaviour, his government under was big on ideas, but not real big in stature. So they former Premier Filmon, when they set up a phony asked him to climb up on top of a local piece of farm political party to try and split the vote in NDP ridings machinery, it happened to be a manure spreader, and by lying to Aboriginal people. That is the history of he said, my friends, today's the first time I'm going to the Conservative party. They can bring forward deliver a speech from the Liberal platform. And, I issues on elections any time they want. mean, I wasn't quite there, so, you know, take this with a grain of salt, but that's the version of the story Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden-Winkler): It's my I heard. pleasure to rise and put some words on the record with respect to this resolution this morning. And I And, then, he told the story of Mouseland. And always appreciate the opportunity to follow the it was this marvellous little community of mice, the member for Wolseley (Mr. Altemeyer) because I only problem was they were ruled by cats, white cats know I won't be lacking in terms of any material that as it happened. And so the mice would go about and I need to draw into this debate. do their work and work hard and try and look after their families, and the rulers, the cats, would do what And, Mr. Speaker, there–I just have to say from cats do to mice, and, after a while, the mice got a the outset how disappointed I am to hear the member November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 465 from Wolseley characterize the service of the MLA Provencher, the by-election in Brandon-Souris, and for Morris by saying she walked away. And I just that's democracy at work. We had vacancies created can't say how disappointed I am, but then if that is because life goes on. what the member for Wolseley (Mr. Altemeyer) is Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. putting on the record, on the official record of the Manitoba Legislature here, then we have some Mr. Speaker: Order, please. questions for the member for Wolseley. It seems like members are in good spirits this If the terminology he's employing is walked morning, which is good to see, and there's lots to away, then we have to say, well, what about discuss. But if I might suggest, for those members individuals like MaryAnn Mihychuk, did she walk wishing to have a private conversation, that they away from the Manitoba Legislature? What about the might use the loge to my right or the loge to my left member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) who walked or perhaps another room in the Legislative Building. away and came back and may very well walk away I would very much like to hear the continuing again? Mr. Speaker, did the member for Elmwood, in comments of the honourable member from Morden- stepping away from his seat, did he walk away from Winkler. So if you'd at least give me that opportunity his constituents? to hear his comments, then I would appreciate that. Mr. Speaker, I would ask the member for The honourable member for Morden-Winkler, to Wolseley, did the former premier for the prime–for continue. the province of Manitoba, did Gary Doer walk away from his constituents, because using this member's Mr. Friesen: Thank you. own words, those constituents elected that member Well, Mr. Speaker, I was a band director in the to be in this Legislature and represent them. public school for 12 years, so I'm used to speaking And let's think about the reasons why Mr. Doer above a little bit of noise in the background, but for a walked away. Why did Mr. Doer leave after his while there it was starting to sound like trombones in service to the citizens of this province? Oh, I forgot, the hands of grade 7s for a while. it was a patronage position. He was put there by a As I was saying, Mr. Speaker, this last week we sitting Prime Minister and he went to serve his saw democracy in action. We saw two federal country in another capacity. If the member for by-elections called because members who had given Wolseley met Mr. Doer now, would he say with the service to their constituents–life had gone on, same conviction as he said earlier, Mr. Doer, you decisions had to be made, decisions were undertaken walked away–you walked away. and changes took place and those by-elections were * (11:40) held. And for these members of the other side to somehow sit across the way and fidget in their seats I would caution this member that he is and somehow try to provide a rationale that is in any endeavouring to paint a picture when we must way palatable that when it comes to saying, well, a understand as legislators–we must understand–that 10-month wait for a by-election is no big deal, we people come here and they come to serve and they must categorically reject that. All Manitobans must come with the best of intentions in the same way that categorically reject that. Any Manitoban who sees the member for Morris came to this Chamber and value in the exercise of democracy must reject the represented her constituents for 10 years in this actions of this government to sit on their hands while place, and I will not and my colleagues will not stand the constituents of Morris go unrepresented in the by while this member tries to mar her record of Manitoba Legislature. It is not right. It is not just. It service. is not in the spirit of democracy. In the time remaining to me, I want to put a few Mr. Speaker, earlier this week and even earlier words on the record with respect to democracy. And this morning the member for La Verendrye (Mr. I know earlier this week I did stand and I said how Smook) got up and he spoke very clearly about the important to the enterprise of democracy is a function of a constituency office. He spoke very commitment to have elections. We know that this clearly, and I must say, for a member who's only week, Mr. Speaker, because it was only this week been in the Legislature, as I have, for two years, the that the by-elections took place, the federal new members have come to understand very quickly by-elections in this province, the by-election in how important it is, how important the interface of a 466 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013 legislative constituency office is to the working out what is right for the citizens of Morris. Let us do of the democratic office. That is the first front. It what is right in the interest of all Manitobans. is the first point that have constituents avail them- And so I welcome the participation of these selves of to get to government because we must members across the way. We stand in one accord as acknowledge at the outset that working with members on this side of the House, calling for government can be a difficult concept. It can be an the by-election to take place now in a–in the ordeal. People do not always know how to get the constituency of Morris. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. answers they need. Whether it's a casework issue, whether it's a correspondence issue, we know that Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Finance): Mr. those offices and our members serve a function in Speaker, it's my honour to get up in this House and representing the interests, answering the questions, speak to this resolution that my friend from getting the information, polling down the barriers Steinbach has brought forward. I want to start, of and helping people access government. course, by offering–I haven't had the chance yet but I wanted to offer my public congratulations to Larry And that's what needed to go on here and it Maguire, who is the new MP for Brandon-Souris. It needed to go on here because we are in session. As a is a riding I hold close to my heart. That's where I matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I don't have to remind tested out my fledgling electoral wings in 1997 and, you; I don't have to remind the table officers; I don't up until a few days ago, Larry and I had the same have to remind the members on the other side that record in Brandon-Souris. And now he has certainly we came out of one of the longest sittings of the bested me and I do think he will be a good history of this Chamber. Wouldn't it be important representative for those people. during that time for the constituents of Morris to be represented? Well, I would suggest, absolutely, It was an entertaining evening, as we watched because these constituents of Morris, like my things go back and forth. I was thinking that evening constituents, like the constituents of La Verendrye, about my experience running in Brandon-Souris and like the constituents in River East, like the consti- a few days after the election had been over I heard tuents in Tuxedo, had things to say to a government from a couple of folks who were supporting me out who stood up and said, read my lips, no new taxes– in the rural part of the riding. And they had this and then raised taxes. They had things to say to a experience that kind of shocked them, that they had– government that proceeds in a disrespectful fashion the day after the election they'd walked into the to mandatorily amalgamate municipalities across coffee shop in town, and people said, oh, there's our Manitoba. They had things to say about a govern- NDPers, there's our NDPers. And they hadn't put up ment that suggested that they would address bullying a sign, they hadn't advertised their intention and so, in schools and then wrote a bill and rejected every you know, they asked the folks there, like, well, how attempt to strengthen the bill to do just that. did you know who we voted for? And they said, well, on election night there were two NDP votes Mr. Speaker, let me just say, we know the and there never had been any before you moved Premier (Mr. Selinger) has the power, he has the here. So, that–you know, so we weren't peaking too authority. We know it is up to him to do this and that soon in Brandon-Souris, as they say. But it was a is why it is so important that we had this opportunity great experience for me. today to speak on this bill brought forward for the member of Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen). This is an And I also do want to congratulate the NDP important issue and is important for this government candidates in both Brandon-Souris and Provencher. to pay attention to this. This should not be a point of You know, I have heard much punditry and spin contention for members across the way. This should about the results of those by-elections, much of be one of those occasions on which all members can which focuses on the fact that it, indeed, was, I think, agree to participate and to proceed. a wake-up call to the federal Conservative Party. I think this is–House is the only place where I've heard So do away with the name-calling from this from the members opposite that somehow they were member for St. Norbert (Mr. Gaudreau), do away expecting an NDP breakthrough in Provencher, and with the condescending comments on the record by when it didn't materialize, that must be a shock to us. the member for Wolseley (Mr. Altemeyer). For goodness' sakes, let us stand together, shoulder to I do want to offer my congratulations to the NDP shoulder. Let us talk about the need to call a candidates because it is never easy to run in an by-election in the spirit of democracy. Let us do election where you know you are a developing November 28, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 467 riding. And the truth of elections are that more And I think it's important that we look back on people lose them than win them. And those of some of the things that were said by Chief Justice us who are fortunate and privileged to be elected Monnin at the time that were in that inquiry, and this should not gloat when we are victorious. We should was a conspiracy that involved highly-placed civil remember that the people who ran against us also ran servants, the Treasury Board secretary at the time. In hard and also ran because they believed in my current role as Minister of Finance, I cannot quite something, made sacrifices of personal time and comprehend that the secretary of Treasury Board family time to do that, and so I think, you know, we would be complicit in a scheme to fix an election. can be magnanimous in victory, as well, and thank That is incredible to me. Just let that sink in for a those people. moment, that that was what was the case in 1995. * (11:50) So let's look at what Chief Justice Monnin had to say about the rigging of that election, and, of course, Now, people, once they get elected–some folks the quote that we've heard in here from him: In all leave before they finish their term, and they do that my years on the bench, he said, I never encountered for all kinds of reasons. I don't know why the former as many liars in one proceeding as I did during this member for Morris left. I enjoyed working with her. inquiry. What else did he say? He said, it is She was a very good House leader. She was a very disheartening, indeed, to realize that an oath to tell strong woman in her caucus. She was a strong the truth means so little to some people. What else woman to work with. I've heard many stories about did he say? A vote-rigging plot constitutes an why she left. I don't know which stories are accurate. unconscionable debasement of the citizens' right to I heard that she just didn't quite click with the new vote. leader and didn't really find that it was a very comfortable place for her, and maybe that's why she To reduce the voting rights of individuals is a left. Perhaps we will never know. But there will be a violation of our democratic system. He is talking by-election in Morris. I don't want members opposite about the attempt to fix an election, not waiting a to labour under any conspiracy theories. There will, few months to call a by-election when a seat indeed, be one there. becomes vacant, which is within the law, Mr. Speaker. What else did he say? The basic premise of You know, a lot has been said in this House the vote-rigging plot was that Aboriginal people in about democracy, and I think that it would be these ridings had historically voted for the NDP, but instructive to review some of what has happened in the Aboriginal vote would be split if there were our recent history in terms of democracy in this Aboriginal candidates running. The attempt here at province. vote splitting was, in my opinion, clearly unethical And I, in preparation for the discussion here and morally reprehensible. And I would concur with today, was looking back at the Monnin inquiry and at that, not only was it unethical, it was highly cynical some of the things that the chief justice said at the to believe that–to take Aboriginal people so time, and let's remember what that inquiry was into. unseriously that they–their vote could be split by this There were allegations following the 1995 election, kind of attempt, to treat their votes with that much allegations that were quite astounding, really, that callousness, a population of people who more the provincial Progressive Conservative Party had than many populations need strong and effective funded and encouraged candidates to run in ridings representation–that, to me, beyond the ethics of where there were large Aboriginal populations under trying to fix an election, to do it in this way is a party named the Aboriginal Voice Party in an effort what, as in Justice Monnin's words, is morally to split the vote in those constituencies so that they reprehensible. could gain votes. And this I found an interesting quote from that That is a shocking allegation, I think, Mr. report: I cannot ignore the fact that, throughout this Speaker. It was shocking at the time, and it took episode, especially during the investigation and at some time for people to come forward who had the hearings, some of these witnesses exhibited a evidence that that is, indeed, what happened, and degree of arrogance or an I-know-better attitude. that, of course, resulted in the Monnin inquiry. And And who is he talking about as these witnesses? this is not the long past, this is just in the last Highly placed staff in the Premier's office at the 20 years that this has happened. time. 468 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 28, 2013

So I think it's instructive to remember those Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has times, those dark, dark days that are not in our expired. distant past, but are in our recent past. And perhaps the MLAs there don't think that was a dark period in Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): Mr. Speaker, our time, the opposition MLAs. Perhaps for them it's always a pleasure to speak in this august that was business as usual. I hope that that's not true, Chamber we call the Legislative Assembly, and I but I worry that it is. waited for a lifetime and a half to exercise my vocal chords and not sing but speak. It is a very important What else have we seen just from the member issue that we are now talking about, representation, who put forward this resolution, not so long ago and we're talking about the democratic rights of brought legislation into this House to suppress people. voting, brought legislation in this House, legislation that's been discredited in the United States where The main thing that struck my mind during there has been an attempt by Republicans to suppress those first few days when I was missing the Democratic votes by requiring voters to bring ID to presence of somebody from our Legislature, I said, the polls to prove they are who they say they are– what happened? Why is she not attending our exactly what the member opposite brought forward– session? And it was really unnerving. I said there exactly what the member brought forward to do. And must be something really serious that happened. I for an elected member to bring forward legislation worried about her health and I worried about her designed to make it harder for people to vote, condition at that time because I knew that she would especially people who tend to be disenfranchised, I always be here. Every time that there was a session, don't think that's what any of us are here to do. she would be sauntering in and greeting me with a good morning or a good afternoon. She was one of That kind of voter suppression is something that those vibrant personalities in our Legislature. we've seen increasingly in the United States, and I fear that those kinds of tactics are slowly infecting But then I found that it's kind of a different the party opposite, and I hope that those things don't situation, that she quit. She quit on the basis of her come to pass. We will continue to fight against them. desire, she said, to help out in the construction We have, since we became government, brought in business of her sons, which could be true. And I laws to make it easier for people to vote, to make would think–I would think–that I'll do the same thing sure that polls are open earlier, that there are more if I had a chance. advanced polls, that now you can vote at the airport on your way out of town. We want people to be Now, I wish to congratulate a former member engaged. We want them to be involved in elections. of the Legislature who became a Member of We continue to encourage people to do that. Parliament, same role– The members opposite have never been about that. They have always been about only encouraging Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. When those with power to maintain that power. That is this matter is again before the House, the honourable what they continue to be about, Mr. Speaker. I member for Tyndall Park will have seven minutes believe that our democracy has seen progress under remaining. this government and I hope that it will continue to do so. I know that it will continue to do so, and very The hour being 12 noon, this House is recessed soon, I'm sure, we'll be– and stands recessed until 1:30 p.m. this afternoon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 28, 2013 CONTENTS

ORDERS OF THE DAY Resolutions PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS Res. 2–Failure to Call the Morris Constituency By-Election Debate on Second Readings–Public Bills Bill 200–The Legislative Assembly Amendment Goertzen 457 Act (Democracy for Voters) Gaudreau 459 Pedersen 447 Gaudreau 448 Smook 462 Graydon 451 Altemeyer 463 Saran 452 Wishart 454 Friesen 464 Nevakshonoff 455 Howard 466 Gerrard 457 Dewar 457 T. Marcelino 468

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