CAMPUS UNREST __

HEARINGS BEFORE THE SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION /POF THE COMMITTEE 0 EDUCATION AND LABOR HOUSE/ OF REPRESENTATIVES lINETY-FIRST CQNGRE-

FIRST SES 6IO ' ON PROBLEMS o HIGHER EDUCATION, I fCLt bNXG THRbSE RELATING TO STUDENT T FINANCIAL ASSiTA'dE PARTICU- LARLY IN RE ARD TO ITHE/ELIGIBILITp P$)(OV6i~NS OF SECTION 504 OF\THE HIGHER EDUCATION AilEN'DMENT OF \ 1968

HEARINGS-HELD IN WASHINGTON, D.O., FEBRUARY 3; MARCH 19, 20, 21, 25, 26; APRL 18; MAY 7, 8, 9, 15, 20, AND 22, 19697

Printed for the use of the Committee on Educatiorrand Labor CARL D. PERBINS, Chairman

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 28-751 WASHINGTON : 1069

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR

CARL D. PERKINS, Kentucky, Chairman EDITH GREEN, Oregon WILLIAM H. AYRES, FRANK THOMPSON, Ja., New Jersey ALBERT H. QUIE, Minnesota JOHN H. DENT, Pennsylvania JOHN M. ASHBROOK, Ohio ROMAN C. PUCINSKI, Illinois ALPHONZO BELL, DOMINICK V. DANIELS, New Jersey OGDEN R. REID, New York JOHN BRADEMAS, Indiana JOHN N. ERLENBORN, Illinois JAMES G. O'HARA, Michigan WILLIAM J. SCHERLE, Iowa HUGH L. CAREY, New York JOHN DELLENBACK, Oregon AUGUSTUS F. HAWKINS, California MARVIN L. ESCH, Michigan WILLIAM D. FORD, Michigan EDWIN D. ESHLEMAN, Pennsylvania WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY, Maine WILLIAM A. STEIGER, PATSY T. MINK, Hawaii JAMES M. COLLINS, Texas JAMES H. SCHEUER, New Xork EARL F. LANDGREBE, Indiana LLOYD MEEDS, Washington ORVAL HANSEN, Idaho PHILLIP BURTON, California EARL B. RUTH, North Carolina JOSEPH M. GAYDOS, Penneylvanla LOUIS STOKES, Ohio WILLIAM "BILL" CLAY, Missouri ADAM C. POWELL, New York

SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION EDITH GREEN, Oregon, hoairman JOHN BRADEMAS, Indiana ALBERT H. QUIE, Minnesota HUGH L. CAREY, New York OGDEN R. REID, New York WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY, Maine JOHN N. ERLENBORN, Illinois PHILLIP BURTON, California MARVIN L. ESCH, Michigan FRANK THOMPSON, Ja., New Jersey JOHN DELLENBACK, Oregon JAMES H. SCHEUER, New York WILLIAM J. SCHERLE, Iowa LOUIS STOKES, Ohio WILLIAM A. STEIGER, Wisconsin WILLIAM "BILL" CLAY, Missouri (II)

CONTENTS

Hearings held in Washington D.C.: Page February 3, 1969------1 March 19, 1969------107 March 20, 1969------..------.---...------..... 257 March 21, 1969------309 March 25, 1969--..------401 March 26, 1969------491 April 18, 1969------529 May 7, 1969------633 May 8, 1969------681 May 9, 1969 ------765 May 15, 1969------809 May 20, 1969------853 May 22, 1969------933 Statement of: Barzun, Dr. Jacques, the university professor, Columbia University.. 765 Bedesem, Dr. Helen R., director of financial aid, State College ------11 Berkman, Craig L., dean of students staff-housing, University of Cali- fornia at Berkeley------809 Bettelheim, Dr. Brino, Rowley professor of education, professor of psychology and psychiatry, the University of Chicago ..----- . 258 Brownfeld, Allan, young Americans for freedom------.- 834 Bunzel, Dr. John, political science professor, San Francisco State College------455 Cabell, Hon. Earle, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas...------660 Carmody, Robert F., director, Washington office, California State College------388 Chisholm, Hon. Shirley, a Representative in Congress from the State of New York------918 Davidson, Mrs. Sylvia A., Portland, Oreg------.------669 Davis, Dr. Bertram H., general secretary of the American Association of University Professors accompanied by: Walter P. Metzger, professor of history, Columbia University------401 Dollard, Frank, executive vice president, San Francisco State College. 378 Epstein, Norman, general counsel, California State Colleges------. 372 Finch, Hon. Robert II., Secretary of H.E.W., accompanied by Creed C. Black, Assistant Secretary for Legislation; Peter P. Muirhead, Acting Commissioner of Education; and Preston Valien, Acting Associate Commissioner for Higher Education------531 Fleming, Robben W., president, the University of Michigan------744 Harsha, Hon. William H., a Representative in Congress from the State of Ohio.------633 Hayakawa, Dr. S. I., acting president, San Francisco State College-. 5 Hinshaw, David, president, Association of Student Governments, accompanied by Robert White --...------492 Koch, Hon. Edward I., a Representative in Congress from the State of New York------.------962 Kuykendall, Hon. Dan, a Representative in Congress from the State of Tennessee. ------658 Lipset, Dr. Seymour Martin, professor of government and social relations, Harvard University------781 (M?)

Statement of-Continued Lumley, John M., coordinator for NEA panel, assistant executive secretary for legislation and Federal relations, NEA; Ralph Cliese- brough, Robert E. McKay, Alan G. Stratton, and Melvin Myler, Page Jr------286 McClatohy, Dr. Leo, chairman, Academic Senate of San Francisco State College--....------....-...... ----...----..... 349 McFarland, Stanley J., assistant executive secretary for legislation and Federal relations National Education Association accompnlied by George Fisher, president, and Richard Carrigan legislation and Federal relations staff------...... ------..--- 818 Meriam, Theodore, chairman, board of trustees, California State Colleges ..----- ....-- ..------.. --..---.. - -..-..-226 Mitchell, Attorney General John N------..------.--..---- 853 Montgomery, Hon. G. V., a Representative in Congress from the State of Mississippi .-----. ---.------. 661 Powell, Robert, president, National Student Association------.--..-- 500 Pusey, Nathan M., president, Harvard University----.------.. 681 Reagan, Hon. Ronald, Governor of the State of California, as read by Dr. Sherriffs ------. ------..------109 Rickover, Vice Admiral II. G .------.------.. ------.----.. 933 Selden, David, president, American Federation of Teachers, AFIL- CIO, accompanied by Carl Megel, legislative representative --..-- 309 Sherriffs, Dr. Alex, education secretary, Office of Gov. Ronald Reagan, State of California; Theodore Meriam, chairman, board of trustees, California State Colleges; accompanied by Norman Ep- stein, general counsel, and Robert F. Carmody, director, Wash- ington office, the California State Colleges --....------... 10 ! Smith, Hon. Neal, a Representative in Congress from the State of Iowa---..--.....-----..------.------..------6.5 Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc.: Albert Michael, Undergraduate Association President, et al, letter to iarry Hogan, counsel------. ------..------. 75 American Civil Liberties Union, statement of--...------871 Bedesem, Dr. Helen R., director of financial aid, San Francisco State College: Demands and explanations ...---...------... 14 Letter to recipients of financial aid at San Francisco State College, dated January 1969 ...------....------13 Public Law 90-575, eligibility for student assistance----... ..-- 13 Brademas, Hon. John, a Representative in Congress from the State of Indiana: Cohen, Hon. Wilbur J., Secretary of Health, Education, and Wel- fare, "Student unrest" and Federal legislation, statement on_. 30 "Industrial Jurisprudence and the Campus," a statement by Arthur M. Ross, professor, University of Michigan, entitled.. 690 Letter from Grayson Kirk, president, Columbia University, New York, N.Y., dated May 17, 1968, including statement. ---.-- 36 Letter from Elvis J. Stahr, president, Indiana University, Bloom- ington, Ind., dated Aug. 28, 1968..------37 Letter from the Faculty Committee on Academic Freedom, University of California Irvine Calif. dated Sept. 3, 1968-.. 37 Letter from Glenn, T'rrell, president, Washington State Univer- sity, Pullman, Wash., dated Aug. 26, 1968 ----...... ------3S Letter from Ralph S. Brown, Jr., president, American Association of University Professors, Washington, D.C., dated June 3, 1968...------Speech by Hon. William D. Hathaway, a Representative in Con- gross from the State of Maine, delivered at the College of William and Mary, May 3, 1969.------.------706 Statement adopted by executive committee, National Associa- tion of State Universities and'Land Grant Colleges and board of directors, American Association of State Colleges and Univer- sities ...-----..-- .------Test oaths and administrative penalties ---.....------36 "The Twilight of Authority " an article entitled------.. -..-- 912 Various "Anti-Riot" Amendments recently voted by the U.S. House of Representatives, statement on..------..--- :j35

Prepared statements, letter, suplleImental material, etc-Continued Brownfeld, Allan, Young Americans for Freedom: Pate Statement t of ....-- ..-----.-.------...... - ....-. ...-...... 834 Summnary of remarks -...-- .-----.------..------. 8.10 IHuether, John W., chairman, Advisory Committee on Education, Portland, Oreg., letter to Mrs. Green, dated February 25, 19(19....- 974 Iunzel, Dr. John, political science professor, San Francisco State College: Prepared statement by. ...--.------.------.. ------407 "Statement on Academic Freedoin and the Rights of Faculty," paper entitled ...... -..-. ------..... 488 Burton, lion. Phillip, a Representative in Congress from the State of California: "Harvard: Thli Voice of a Non-Striker," a newspaper article entitled-...-..------. ------... 717 Ollicial bulletin of San Francisco Labor Council, "Teachers' Issues---labor Issues?" article entitled------.. 16 Statement of Roger W. Heyns, Comstock Club of Sacramnento. 703 Clausen, lion. Don It., a Representative in Congress from the State of California, statement of..---..---- ..------742 Davis, Dr. Bertram H., general secretary, American Association of University Professors: Academic freedom and tenure------....-.. 451 "Faculty Participation in Strikes," article reprinted from the summer 1968 AAUP bulletin--.------.. -..--... 446 "Free Speech and Dissent," article entitled------411 "Joint Statement on Rights and Freedoms of Students," reprint from the summer 1968 AAUP bulletin--.....------....- 407 Letter to the President, dated March 17, 1969)..------... 414 Press release, April 28, 1968------.--..------..--..- 411 Resolution adopted on October 28, 1967------.------411 Statement on AntiRiot legislation----.------..-----.. ------412 The standards for notice of nonreappointment---..------. 453 S)ennel, lion. Robert V., a Representative in Congress from the State of Mebraska, statement of ------. 741 Dollard, Frank D., executive vice president, San Francisco State College: Statement of agreement signed by Frank 1). Dollard, and Louis II. Heilbron, trustee, dated February 16, 1909------...-.... 380 Statement of agreement signed by S. Havakawa, acting presi- dent, and Frank 1). Dollard, dated March 18, 1969--..---... 379 Dumke, Dr. Glenn S., chancellor, The California State College, statement of ------...... -... 232 "End Campus 'Sanctuary,' " article in Los Angeles Times------030 Epstein, Norman L., general counsel, trustees of the California State Colleges, Los Angeles, Calif.: Letter to Chairman Green, dated April 4, 1969------.----- 391 Letter to Gary Hawkins, president, American Federation of Teachers, A'L-CIO, Local No. 1352, San Francisco, Calif., dated January 1, 1969------.-- 395 Letter to George W. Johns, secretary-treasurer, San Francisco Labor Council, dated February 10, 19609------..- 393 Erlenborn, Hon. John N., a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois: Letter to the presidents of universities, colleges, Junior colleges, ind community colleges, from the Secretary of Health, Educa- tion, nnd Welfare-.------. 435 Statement by The President of the .....------.. 433 Finch, Hon. Robert H., Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare: Agreement with an institution of higher education for grants by the U.S. Commissioner of Education ---.---.------. - 014 Agreement to enable an institution of higher education to make educational opportunity grants.------.. .------11 Letter to the presidents of universities, colleges, junior colleges, and community collegescolleges------...... 435 Letters received from universities: Allen, John S., president, University of South Florida, Tampa, Fla-..------. 544

*Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc-Continued Finch, Hon. Robert H., Secretary of IIEW-Continued Letters received from universities-Continued Arnim, Sumtor S., Ph. D., dean, the University of Texas, Pain Houston, Tex....-.- -.....------. ....-..- -...... 589 Atherton, John W., president, Pitzer College, Claremont, Calif-....------..- 580 Baker, D. K., acting president, St. Lawrence University, Canton, N.Y. ....-.-----..------.. ------.--- 571 Baker, Merl, chancellor, -Rolla-.... 559 Bandy, Dr. J. A., president, Toccoa Falls Institute, Toccoa Falls, Ga----..------. ------. 571 Beckes, Isaac K., president, Vincennes University, Vin- cennes, Ind ------.. ------..... 572 Benezet, Louis T., Harper-East Claremont, Calif-...... 577 Bertrand, John R., president, Berry College, Mount Berry, Ga ..------544 Birenbaum, William M., president, Staten Island Community College, the City University of New York ------. 553 Boiling, Landrum 11., president, Earlham College, Richniond, Ind .------544 Boswell, J. M., president, Cumberland College, Williams- burg, Ky------.... ------551 Brady, Sister Marian, S.P., president, Immaculata College of Washington, Washington, D.C------... ------549 Briggs, H. M., president, South Dakota State University, Brookings, S. Dak....------..------..--.----- 55 Brooks, Ernest H., II, executive vice president, Brooks Institute, Santa Barbara, Calif------572 Bugg, James L., Jr., chancellor, University of Missouri, St. Louis -- 5------.------,------549 Burgess, Wilfred, dean of student affairs, Mt. Hood Com- munity College, Grcsham, Oreg------.---. 55 Chandler, John W., president, flamilton Cullege, Clinton, N.Y. ------572 Clark, Robert D., president, San Jose State College....-...- 560 Colt, Thomas C., Jr., director, the Dayton Art Institute, Dayton, Ohio..------.. ------.- ..-.. 572 Cook, Robert A., president, the King's College, BriarclilT Manor, N.Y------582 Copeland, Joseph J., president, Maryville College, Maryvillc, Tenn-.------..---.------.. 5S2 Cornell, S. D., president, Mackinac College, Mackinac Island, Mich.------.--..------.---.---- 579 Davis, Don, president, the Collego of the Ozarks, Clarksville, Ark--- ...------..------559 Davis, John L., president, Chapman College, Orange, Calif-. 551 Driscoll, Msgr. Justin A., president, Loras College, Dubuque, Iowa...------549 Early, Jack J., president, Dakota Wesloyan University, Mitchell, S. Dak....------.------579 Elstad, Leonard M., president, Gallaudet College, Washing. ton, D.C---..------. 539 Etherington, Edwin D., president, Wesloyan University, Middletown, Conn------..---- 532 Fenton, John E., president, Suffolk University, Boston, Mass.------. 547 Fischer, John H., president Teachers College, Columbia University, Now York, N...... ----..------...... -- 551 Fitterer John A., S. J., president, Seattle University, Seattle Wash ..----....------.------...-- 531 Folsom, R. 0., president, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, N.Y ------.....-----...... --- ... 580 Fountain, Ben E., Jr. president, Lenoir County Community College, Kinston, N.C ...... ------.- 548 Furey, ost Rev. Francis J., Bishop of San Diego, San Diego, Calif.---..-----.. -..--..-----.--- 547

VII

Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc-Continued Finch, Hon. Robert H., Secretary of HEW-Continued Letters received from universities-Continued Gallagher, Buell G., president, the City College of the City PaIm University of New York, Now York, N.Y------5S3 Gemmell, James, president, Clarion State College, Clarion, Pat---...... ------..----- 556 Gibson James E., president, the College of Artesia, Artesia, N. Mex ------584 Giles, William L., president, Mississippi State University, State College, Miss ------..------543 Gordon, Lincoln, president, the Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md ...... ------...---- ..------583 Goudlock, James II., president, Friendship Junior College, Rock Hill, S.C ------551 Gould, Samuel B., chancellor, State University of New York, Albany, N.Y ------. 543 Gresham, Perry E., president, Bethany College, Bethany, W. Va--...------581 Hahn, T. Marshall, Jr., president, Polytechnic Institute, Blacksburg, Va-.------557 Hardin, Paul, III, president, Wofford College, Spartanburg, S.C----..------... .------..------.. 550 Harlow, James G., president, University, Morgantown, W. Va .------.-----..---..------584 Hauser, Charles J., assistant administrative officer, Arizona State Commission for Higher Education------58 Ilarvill, Richard A., president, the University of Arizona, Tucson, Ariz------..------.---- 581 Haywood William T., Mercer University, Macon, Ga----- 550 Heady, Fcrrel, president, the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, N. Mex..------585 TcfTncr, Ray L., president, Brown University, P'rovid ,ence, R.I....---..------.------.-----... 56 lesburgh, Rev. Theodore M., C.S.C., president, University of Notre Dane, Notre Dame, Ind------553 Hester, James M., president, New York University, New York, N.Y.-----....----.. ------.----...--..--..--- 580 Hill, Warren G., director of higher education, State of Connecticut, Hartford, Conn--...-- ....------. . -- 590 Hurley, K. Duane, president, Salem College, Salem, W. Va. 577 Janse, J., D.C., president, National College of Chiropractic- 587 Jensen, Erling N., president, Muhlenberg College, Allen- town, Pa------.------...------. 546 Jerome, Wm. Travers, III, president, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio...------546 Johns, Thomas II., president, Pikevillo College, Pikeville, 578 Kyv...... ------...... ---...... -.....-....------Johnson, Howard W., president, Massachusetts Institute of 558 Technology, Cambridge, Mass------...... Keeshan Sister Margaret M., CSJ, president, the College of 569 Saint Rose, Albany, N.Y ...... Kendig, Perry F., president, Roanoke College, Salem, Va.. 546 Kennedy, Clephane A., president, Benjamin Franklin University, Washington, D ...------.... ------. 587 Klinger, Wallace R., acting president, Hartwick College, Oneonta, N.Y .....------... ----....--.. --...... 553 Knecht, John R., president, United Theological Seminary, Dayton, Ohio-----. ------...... - ..... 589 Knorr, Owen Albert, director coordinating council for higher education Sacramento, Calif------657 Lenfestey, F. T., president, Polk Junior College, Winter Haven, Fla.------578 Leymaster, Glen R., M.D., president and dean, Woman's Medical College of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pa ..---. 500

VIII

Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc-Continued Finch, Hon. Robert H., Secretary of HEW-Continued Letters received from universities-Continued Lile, Charles G., executive secretary, American Optometric Page Association, St. Louis, Mo., for Sinclair Community College Dayton, Ohio------559 Littlejohn, Oliver M., Ph. D., dean, Mercer University, Atlanta, Ga------.... 545 Locklin, Wilbert E., president, Springfield College, Spring- field, Mass ..------..... 577 Logan, John A., president, Rose Polytechnic Institute, Terra Haute, Ind------545 Mahoney, Sister Hildergarde Marie, president, College of Saint Elizabeth, Convent Station, N.J------588 Makinen, Evert, administrative assistant, Colby College, Waterville, Maine------577 Marsh, Homer F., Ph. D., chancellor, the University of Tennessee, Memphis, Tenn ------545 Martin, Robert R., president, Eastern Kentucky University, Richmond, Ky ..------575 Martin, Stanley H., president, West Virginia Wesleyan College, Buckhannon, W. Va...------...... 575 McCain, James A., president, Kansas State University, Man- hattan, Kans ------575 McCain, Paul M., president, Arkansas College, Batesville, Ark ------578 McNair, Hon. Robert E., Governor, State of South Carolina. 554 Mercer, Theodore C., Bryan College, Dayton, Tenn ------578 Meyerson, Martin, State University of New York at Buffalo. 567 ,Michalson, Gordon E., president, School of Theology at Claremont, Calif------576 Millican, Charles N., president, Florida Technological Uni- versity, Orlando, Fla ------554 Montgomery, Douglas M. president, Blue Ridge Com- munity College, Weyers Cave, Va.------578 Moos, Malcolm, president, University of Minnesota, Min- neapolis, Minn. ------543 Mortvedt, Robert, president, Pacific Lutheran University, Tacoma, Wash.------552 Mullins, David W., president, University of Arkansas, Fayette- ville, Ark------553 Nabrit, James M., Jr., president, Howard University, Wash- ington, D.C.--.------557 Nelson, Roland H., Jr., president, Marshall University, Huntington, W. Va.---. ------554 Nester, William R., dean of students, University of Cincin- nati, , Ohio ..------.------....---- - 553 Olson, John F. president, Oklahoma City University, Okla- homa City, Okla...------..... ------.. 554 Oxnam, Robert F., president, Drew University, Madison, N.J ------588 Pannabecker, Ray P., president, Bethel College, Mishawaka, Ind------557 Pannill, F. C., M.D., dean, the University of Texas, San Antonio Tex------...... ------591 Patton, Wendell M., president, High Point College, High Point N.C-- ...------569 Perry, B. L., Jr., president, Florida Agricultural and Me- chanical University, Tallahassee, Fla------588 Peterson, Martha, president, Barnard College, New York, N.Y------.------555 Pipkin, Lester E., president, Appalachian Bible Institute, Bradley, W. Va ------555 Pitzer, K. S., president, Stanford University, Stanford, Calif.------556 Plemmons, W. H., president, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C-..------574

Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc-Continued Finch, Hon. Robert H., Secretary of HEW-Continued Letters received from universities-Continued Preus, J. A. O., Concordia Theological Seminary, Spring- Page field, Ill------574 Pullen, Thomas G., Jr., president, University of Baltimore, Baltimore, Md ------580 Raynor, John P., S.J., president, Marquette University, , Wis ------. 579 Rediger, Milo A., president, Taylor University, Upland, Ind...... ----...... 576 Reeves, H. Clyde, executive vice president, University of Alabama in Huntsville, Huntsville, Ala------555 Richey, R. Wayne, executive secretary, State Board of Regents, Des Moines, Iowa------574 Robinson, H. F., University System of Georgia, Atlanta Ga. 569 Sawyer, G. M., president, Texas Southern University, Hous- ton, Tex ------555 Schmeller, Kurt R., president, Queensborough Community College, Bayside, N.Y------556 Schultz, Arthur L., president, Albright College, Reading, Pa.. 575 Schwada, John W., chancellor, University of Missouri, Columbia, Mo------591 Shell, George R. E., major general, Virginia Military Insti- tute, Lexington, Va ------548 Smith, G. Herbert, president, Willamette University, Salem, Oreg------574 Smith, John Sylvester, president, Florida Keys Junior Col- lege, Key West, Fla------573 Socquet, Sister Irene, S.S.A., president, Anna Marie College, Paxton, Mass------552 Spalding, Keith, president, Franklin and Marshall College, Lancaster, Pa ------573 Stewart, James P., president, Briarcliff College, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y ------579 Swanson, Robert D., president, Alma College, Alma, Mich. - 589 Thompson, Morris, president, Kirksville College of Osteo- pathy and Surgery, Kirksville, Mo ------552 True, James A., special assistant to the president, Boston University, Boston, Mass------550 Van Arsdale, T. W., Jr., president, Bradley University, Peoria, I11------590 Watkins, Levi, president, Alabama State College, Mont- gomery, Ala------552 Welsh, Rev. Robert J., O.S.A., president, Villanova Uni- versity, Villanova, Pa------548 White, Luther W., III, president, Randolph-Macon College, Ashland,Va------550 Williams, Hon. John Bell, Governor, State of Mississippi.. 548 Withey, Raymond A., president, Green Mountain College, Poultney, Vt-.------.. 547 Wolfe, Gregory B., president, Portland State College, Portland, Oreg------581 Wright, Leslie S., president, Samford University, Birming- ham, Ala ------556 Yanitelli, Rev. Victor R., S.J., Saint Peter's College, Jersey City, N.J------585 Zaitz, Anthony W., Ph. D., president, Saint Leo College, Saint Leo, Fla------588 Statement by ------531 Statement by the President ------530 Terms of agreement with an institution of higher education for capital contribution by the Commissioner of Education------617 Fleming, Robben W., president, University of Michigan, statement of. 745 Frederick, Robert M., legislative representative, National Grange, letter to Mrs. Green, dated May 28, 1969.------977

,. .. , . . :i _ Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc-Continued Green, Mrs. Edith, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oregon: "Citywide Report Asserts Disorders of Students Peril Educa- Page tion," article entitled------103 Letter from Thomas T. Jordan, general manager, Claifornia State Employees' Association, Sacramento, Calif., dated March 18, 1969 ------398 Lewis, Homer L., brigadier general, AFRes, National President, Eagle Pass, Tex., letter to Dr. Nathan M. Pusey, president, Harvard University, Boston, Mass., dated April 25 1969.... 663 Telegram from A. C. Taylor, executive assistant to Mr. Jordan, California State Employees' Association, Sacramento,Calif...- 398 Hathaway, Hon. William D., a Representative in Congress from the State of Maine, resolutions adopted by the 55th annual meeting of AAUP. ------731 Hayakawa, Dr. S. I., acting president, San Francisco State College: Articles of incorporation of associated students of San Francisco State College ------54 Expulsion procedures at San Francisco State College------29 Gearing disciplinary systems for today's problems ------73 Grievance and disciplinary action procedures.------64 Relationship between student unrest and amendments------42 Student disciplinary procedures, San Francisco State College, February 20, 1969.------70 Student, faculty discipline, memo from Larry Robinson------63 "Student Unrest," publication, entitled, by the board of directors of the Association of American Colleges------40 High School Principals Association of the City of New York, a report of the committee on student unrest entitled, "The Nature and Limits of Student Dissent and Participation------626 Hunter, John, department of psychology, San Francisco State College, AFT Local 1352, statement of------17 Jones, Earl W., assistant executive vice president, San Francisco State College: Letter to Chairman Green, dated May 1, 1969------42 Relationhsip between the effectiveness of the unrest amendments and the calming of unrest on your campus, memo from Helen R. Bedesem, student financial aide ------42 Revision of title 5 provisions on student conduct------43 Lumley, John M., assistant secretary for legislation and Federal rela- tions of the National Education Association: Prepared statement of--.------287 Supplementary statement of ------306 Martine Ann, sister, grade school teacher, statement of------978 Metzger, Dr. Walter P., professor of history, Columbia University, letter from Robert J. Cooper, assistant provost, Columbia Uni- versity, letter to Chairman Green, dated March 10, 1969 ------429 Mitchell, John N., Attorney General: "Analysis of Applicability of 18 U.S.C. 245 to Campus Dis- orders," an article entitled ------902 "Civil Disorder in Academic Communities," a speech by William C. Sullivan, assistant director ------864 "High School Resolution," an article entitled------905 "Report," an article prepared by the Community Relations Service------909 "Student Disorders on American University and College Campuses," an article entitled------883 "What Kind of World Do You Want?" an address entitled..-- 859 Murray, George, minister of education, Black Panther Party, speech, "The Necessity of a Black Revolution"------20 National Society of Scabbard and Blade, statement of------662 Quie, Hon. Albert H., a Representative in Congress from the State of Minnesota: "Alienation and Relevance in Higher Education," speech given by S. J. Tonsor professor, University of Michigan------. 724 "What Kind of World do you Want?" an address by Attorney General John N. Mitchell---_. ------732

Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc-Continued Randell, Cortez, president, National Student Marketing Corp., Page statement of------973 Reagan, Hon. Ronald, Governor of the State of California, letter to members of the Legislature of California, enclosing several bills introduced in the Legislature of California, dated March 3, 1969-- 118 Reid, Hlon. Ogden R., a Representative in Congress from the State of New York: Article in American Council on Education News entitled, "A Declaration on Campus Unrest" ------598 Letters submitted by Kingman Brewster, Jr., president, Yale University, dated April 2, 1969 and April 6, 1969------709 Rickover, H. G., Vice Admiral, "Colleges-Conduct on Campuses- Regulation," an act represented in Senate and assembly in the State of New York.------943 Scherle, lion. William J., a Representative in Congress from the State of Iowa: Benz, Stanley C., dean of students, San Jose State College, San Jose, Calif., letter from, dated February 21, 1969------339 Block Murray H., president, Borough of Manhattan Community College, letter from, dated February 17 1969------338 Boyd, J. D., president, Alcorn Agricultural and Mechanical College, Lorman, Miss., letter from dated February 12, 1969.. 336 "Campus Cutup Cures," article entitled------100 "Campus Riots Irk Representative Green," article entitled.---- 98 "Campus Rx," article .entitled ------99 Cooper, Robert J., assistant provost, Columbia University, New York, N.Y., letter from, dated March 26, 1969------331 Editorial in the Philadelphia Inquirer, July 27, 1968-----.. --. 101 Elkins, Wilson H., president, University of Maryland, College Park, Md., letter from, dated February 14, 1969------338 Ewigleben, Robert L., president, College of San Mateo, San Mateo, Calif., letter from, dated February 18, 1969------335 "FBI Director Expects New Campus Riots," article entitled.... 101 Gallagher, Buell G., president, the City College of the City Uni- versity of New York, New York, N.Y., letter from, dated March 4, 1969------. ------. 337 Gooder, Glenn, G., president, Los Angeles City College, Los Angeles, Calif., letter from, dated February 19, 1969------333 Graham, Charles J., dean, Wisconsin State University, letter from, dated February 20, 1969------335 Guiles, R. E., president, Wisconsin State University, Oshkosh, Wis., letter from, dated February 26, 1969------340 Gwydir, Robert R., Jr., dean of instruction, Nassau Community College, Garden City, N.Y., letter from, dated February 17, 1969------335 Hardwav, Wendell G., president, Bluefield State College, Blue- field, W. Va., letter from, dated February 7, 1969------332 Jamrich, John X., president, Northern Michigan University, Marquette, Mich., letter from, dated February 10, 1969------334 Mitchell, Maurice B., chancellor, University of Denver, Denver Colo., letter from, dated February 24, 1969------331 O'Connell, Stephen C., president, University of Florida, Gaines- ville, Fla., letter from, dated March 21, 1969 ------336 Price, Hollis F., president, LeMoyne College, Memphis, Tenn., letter from, dated March 12, 1969------334 Pusey, Nathan M., president, Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., letter from, dated February 21, 1969 ------333 Raynor, John P., S.J., president, Marquette University, Mil- waukee, Wis., letter from, dated March 6, 1969------340 Stanford, Henry King, president, University of Miami, Coral Gables, Fla., letter from, dated February 13, 1969------339 Student aid amendment statement------102 "The Colleges Should Review Free Rides," article entitled.----. 100

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Mr. DELLENBACK. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mrs. GREEN. Mr. Stokes? Mr. STOKES. I have no questions. Mrs. GREEN. I think it is abundantly clear that the universities are vulnerable and indeed are fragile institutions. It would seem to me that there is some evidence that XIIthe churches might also be as fragile and as vulnerable if the militant revolutionary groups should turn Prepared statements, letters, supplemental material, etc-Continued theirScherle, attention lon. toWilliam these. J.: Page Also, "Thethe announcedFailure of the plansTeachers," of SDSa newspaper and theeditorial other entitled..- militant groups716 to go to Ullsvik,industry Bjarne this R.,summer-would president, Wisconsin you careState to University- comment on that- Platteville, Platteville, Wis., letter from, dated February 18, the vulnerability,1969------...... the fragile nature of almost every institution 339of our society to"Universities a minority Should group Take that Firm isStand," intent article on destruction?entitled------99 The ATTORNEY"21 Senators GENEIRL.Introduce Anti-RiotI think Student the Bill,"observation article entitled.. is worthy 98 of a "School Seizures Seen Way To Improve Them," article in the Wash- great ingtondeal ofPost, consideration dated April 16, and1969------study because I think ------it is absolutely624 true,Selden, and I David,think president, it proves American the theme Federation that weof areTeachers, talking AFL- about when we areCIO: talking about the nihilist militant. "Help For a Sister Union," a publication article entitled, by They areGeorge cognizant W. Johns, of secretary,these circumstances. San Francisco LaborThey Council..--- knew that the312 uni- versity was"Statement the weak on Academic spot that Freedom they couldand the move Rights faster of Faculty," with than any- thing else.a Theypublication are lookingarticle entitled- for the ------softer spots in our institutions314 alnd "Strike Settlement Terms at San Francisco State College," an in the country,article entitledand to the------extent that they can generate enough 313 sup- port either"Students within Powers their and Rights,"own ranks a publication or by articlefollowers, entitled..--- they will315 un- Sherriffs, Dr. Alex, education secretary, office of Gov. Ronald Reagan, doubtedlyState ofproceed California: these other types of institutions and establishment. This isAnalysis, part offield their arrest credo. reports, They University state ofso California, in some Berkeley,of their meetings and to theCalif. extent (tables)------that they have ------the ability, they ------are certainly 214 going Excerpt of letter addressed to Hon. Edith Green, a Representa- to carry ittive out. in Congress from the State of Oregon, dated April 1, 1969-- 220 Mrs.Shugrue, GREEN. L. E., Thennational it commander,would certainly Catholic beWar a Veteransmistake of to the isolate the universityUnited andStates say of America,it is the letter only to Chairman vulnerable Perkins, institution. dated April The high schools22, 1969------975 Smith,may Hon. be Neal,even amore Representative vulnerable in thanCongress industry from the or State churches of or any other Iowa:group. * The ALetter ORNEY from GENERAL.Hon. Robert This H. Finch,may verySecretary, well HEW,and fromdated the point April 11, 1969 .------646 of view Letterof the to Departmentlion. Robert Finch, of Justice, Secretary, of HEW------course, most of the statutes646 we haveTeague, been Olin talking E., a Representativeabout here this in morningCongress from have the equal State applicability of in thisTexas area chairman,of the criminal Committee prosecution. on Veterans Affairs, letter to Chair- man Perkins, dated June 11, 1969. ------976 Mrs.Text GREEN.of bills: On behalf of the committee, may I express the thanks of the committeeH.R. 10074 ------to the Attorney General for his willingness to529 come here thisH.R. morning. 10136.------You have been very------helpful to us and we will530 look WCBS-TV editorial, April 13, 1969.------625 forward"Why toWe the Strike," additional article entitled,information distributed which by youSan haveFrancisco promised to supplyState us. College Federation of Teachers, Local 1352 ------19 The ATTORNEY GENERAL. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mrs. GREEN. The next witness before our committee is our colleague, Congresswoman Chisholm. We are glad to welcome you to the com- …[TEXT CUT]mittee this morning, Mrs. Chisholm, and we are anxious to hear your views on the legislation that is before the committee. STATEMENT OF RON. SHIRLEY CHISHOLM FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK Mrs. CHISHOLM. Madam Chairman and gentlemen, I am grateful for the opportunity to testify before this special subcommittee as it considers what legislation dealing with higher education it will recom- mend to the 91st Congress. Although I have not been able to follow the previous testimony in

919 detail, I am familiar with sections of it from newspaper stories, and I hope that there is something I can add. As often as I can, I like to accept invitations to colleges. I have been to 11 this year-Georgetown, Howard, Trinity, Columbia, Notre Dame, Brooklyn College, Earlham, Bowdoin, Skidmore, Long Island Uni- versity, and Prineeton. I have met many hundreds of students, and I want to say at the start that I like and admire today's college-age people. The breadth of their concern, the intensity of their moral outrage at injustice and the sincerity of their dedication to efforts to win real change and im- lprovement in this society are amazing. They are probably the finest generation this country has ever produced. I am sure some of you are dubious of this, and would like to ask me, "Is that why they are causing so much trouble?" Yes; to a great ex- tent, that is why. I wish this subcommittee would make a greater effort to hear from students, and not so much from college presidents, State officials, psychologists and Federal officials. Of the 25 persons who have testified so far only three were students. Like too many of us older persons, they seem determined to mis- understand and oversimplify this "student unrest," as they call it, or this "student rebellion." This kind of jargon or cant is a method that is often used to avoid the pain of really coming in contact with and understanding the terrible problems that threaten the future of this country. I have heard similar phrases in other context-the "urban crisis," for instance. We use these phrases, and fool ourselves into believing that when we say them we understand what is happening. But believe me, you do not know what you are talking about when you say "urban crisis, unless you have walked the streets of a neigh- borhood like mine, and lived there, and have known the people-the people who are the reality that we deny when we use some bureau- crat's catch phrase. Things are not always what they appear to us to be as we here in Washington watch them on television, or learn the inside dope from some syndicated columnist whose greatest skill is to conceal the fact that he is acting as a spokesman for someone with an ax to grind. Take the incident that has everyone so upset, the Cornell affair. Who can help reacting with anger and fear at the picture of a band of young men, armed with rifles and shotguns, occupying a building at a great university and forcing its administration to give them what- ever they demand ? Was that the way it was? Why did it happen? Does this subcom- mittee intend to ask any of these young men, dispassionately and sympathetically, what drove them to this? Their action seems inexplicable to most persons, because all they know is gleaned from television film clips and brief newspaper stories. Very few of these went into any of the background. Few mentioned the insults, the threats, the anonymous telephone calls that had frightened some of these students, or their friends. On the night before their occupation of Willard Straight Hall, a cross had been burned in front of a building where 11 black women students live.

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A black American who sees a burning cross may be pardoned, 1 hope, for feeling that lie may be in some danger. That burning cross is such an embarrassment to the good citizens of Ithaca that some of them have even tried to suggest that the black students did it themselves, to furnish an excuse for their violent action of the next day. This proves, it seems to me, that there are no lengths to which some of us will not go to discredit these young people. What those boys did, in providing themselves with guns, may have been wrong. But they felt they were surrounded with enemies, and they knew some of those enemies had guns, and they knew they were the kind of people who would commit such a cowardly outrage as burning that cross. Put in this light, their action may still be reckless and mistaken-but it is no longer incomprehensible. The Cornell incident illustrates another point I want to stress- that what is happening on our campuses cannot be understood without relating it.to all the other problems of our society-to racism, to economic injustice, to the terribly mistaken war we are caught in. These students are the product of an unjust, racist society that spends more money on war than it does on education and medicine. They see the wrongness of this with a clarity that most of their elders have lost, if they ever had it. They are fighting back. Sometimes their goals may be obscure to us, and their tactics inadmissible, to our way of thinking. But perhaps we should criticize our own way of thinking more often. It might even be that we, ourselves, are the problem. A Colgate University professor wrote a long article that the Wash- ington Star reprinted May 4, and I think it tells a great deal more about what is wrong with our colleges than he intended. Let me read part of it. He said: Disaster first struck when we were compelled to educate, or try to educate, a great unwieldy mass of young men and women who had no definite objective in a system designed, organized, and operated with reasonable success for an intellectually elite or at least culturally oriented and carefully selected minority. To this type of elderly scholar, accustomed to the children of the upper and middle class, it is apparently a mistake to open the doors of the universities to all sorts of people. They are an "unwieldy mass" that he can only "try to educate." His scorn of anyone who is not ex- actly like him and his friends is almost laughable. Mrs. GREN.. Would you allow me to interrupt because this is the second bell. Without any objection, I will call a recess until 2 p.m. and then if you could return at that time to complete your statement- would tlat be agreeable Mrs. CImSOLmr. It will not be agreeable but I have to accept the wishes of the chairman of the committee. Mrs. GREEN. This is the usual procedure followed by all committees when there is a quorum call or a vote. The committee stands in recess until 2 p.m. (Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the hearing recessed to reconvene at 2 p.m.) AFTERNOON SESSION Mrs. GREEN. The subcommittee will come to order. I am going to ask unanimous consent to place a statement that was

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presented by the American Civil Liberities Union immediately after the conclusion of the remarks by the Attorney General. Without objection it is so ordered. When the committee recessed this morning we were in the middle of hearing the testimony of Congresswoman Shirley Chisholl. Would you continue with that statement? Mrs. CIIIsJomr. Yes, certainly. Thank you very much. I will go back a little bit to get the trend of thinking. A Colgate Uni- versity professor wrote a long article that the Washington Star re- printed May 4, and I think it tells a great deal more about what is wrong with our colleges than he intended. Let me read part of it. lie said: Disaster first struck when we were compelled to educate, or try to educate, a great unwieldy mass of young men and women who had no definite objective in a system designed, organized, and operated with reasonable success for an intellectually elite or at least culturally oriented and carefully selected minority. To this type of elderly scholar, accustomed to the children of the upper and middle class, it is apparently a mistake to open the doors of the universities to all sorts of people. They are an "unwieldy mass" that he can only "try to educate." His scorn of anyone who is not exactly like him and his friends is almost laughable. Barriers dropped or requirements lessened perceptibly. Students came with- out language equipment, without an ability to write intelligent English, without adequate preparation in subject matter, and worst of all without manners. When students say that our institutions of higher education have become irrelevant to them and their concerns, and that the institutions are unaware of the need to change, and resistant to making changes when they are finally reluctantly made aware, here is the evidence that they are not imagining things. Instead of focusing on the students, why do we not look to the root of the trouble in this society? What is that ? Suppose we look at the makeup of the boards of trustees that make the final decisions for the colleges. We will find them to be, typically, white male Protestant businessmen over 50 years old, with an income likely to be $30,000 a year or more. No, it is not a crime to be any of these things. But I think we will not be too unfair if we say and we know that this type of citizen is not always in the forefront of social change. A little more variety in our colleges' governing bodies seems long overdue. How about electing some recent graduates, to break the monotony? Some members of racial minorities? Some plain working people? Even a few more women ? I was glad to read that Secretary Robert Finch made a very similar suggestion before this subcommittee, and I think he was exactly right when he said, "In truth, many academic institutions have brought much of it on themselves. They have not always responded to the clear need for constant self-examination and self-renewal." What should they do? This is too long a subject to do more than suggest an answer. But briefly, our universities must begin to address themselves to community needs. They must begin to act, not remain aloof. They must descend from their traditional isolation and engage themselves in the fight for a just and rational society. Their own survival is at stake.

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What can Congress do to help them ? When this subcommittee began these hearings on February 3, the distinguished Chairman said she expected to hear testimony on the report of the Carnegie Commission on Higher Education. A member of this subcommittee, I believe, has introduced a bill to carry out the recommendations of that commission, which are basically that the doors of our colleges should be open to every student, however poor, who is able to learn. What testimony has been heard on this most basic issue ? There was to have been consideration of whether cuts in appropri- ations for student financial assistance are making it impossible for the universities to carry out the congressional intent in passing student aid programs. There was to have been testimony on what the projected needs in buildings are. Have these things been considered? Since these hearings opened, the President has proposed revisions in the fiscal 1970 budget that would cut $107 million from grants to build new college buildings, on the grounds that colleges should be encouraged to get their financing from non-Federal sources. I think this subcommittee should be interested in this proposal. The President claims that, by this method, about $220 million in loans for construction will be made in 1970, through the device of Federal subsidies on interest on these private loans. I am highly skeptical of this claim, but I think it deserves to be looked into. I hope there will be testimony by the administration offi- cials involved, and detailed questioning of how they propose to gen- erate these loans in the face of our war-caused inflation and soaring interest rates. Instead, all the attention has been on an investigation of whether the colleges are living up to two hastily drawn amendments that the last Congress inserted in the Health, Education, and Welfare Department Appropriation Act of 1969 and the Higher Education Amendments of 1968. I want to say that I am strongly opposed to section 504 of the Higher Education Act. I am nearly as strongly opposed to section 411 of the HEW appropriation bill, although it does, at least, seem to offer the per- sons affected the protection of due process in a court of law. Several Members of the House have proposed that all Federal assistance be cut off to campuses that are beset by riots, and I was saddened to read that the Vice President agrees with them. I am not merely opposed to this, I am shocked by the idea that someone be empowered to judge whether or not an institution has tried hard enough to put down dissident students so that it can keep its Federal aid. Secretary Finch, I understand, called this suggestion unenforceable when he appeared before the subcommittee. The Secretary is cer- tainly correct. The difficulty of deciding whether a given institution had satisfied the law's requirements would be insurmountable, and 1 hope that for this reason, if no other, the subcommittee will not consider such a scheme. I am against the existing laws for several reasons. As they stand, they are not infringements of academic freedom. Congress certainly has the power to rule under what conditions the aid it offers shall be paid.

But the existence of these paragraphs in the Federal lawbooks shows, and the behavior of some elements in the Congress shows, even more clearly, a regrettable and dangerous tendency on the part of some politicians to grab headlines by imposing harsh, uniform stand- ards of conduct on citizens whose behavior they do not understand and of which they do not approve. Let me urge you to consider how un-American, in the strict sense of the word, such repressive actions would be. Dr. Samuel Hayakawa, I think, disposed of the two sections in- volved with his remark that they put poor persons "in double jeop- ardy." They punish the poor, but not the rich. For the same action, a poor student will lose his chance to go to college, while a well-off student is hurt only in his father's pocketbook. Dr. Hayakawa also pointed out that students receiving financial aid are not often those involved in rebellions on campus, so these laws are of little use in meeting the problems. I wish it were possible for some of the persons who are raising so much ruckus about this question to put themselves actually bo-ily on these campuses and see actually who the persons are for the most part who are engaged in these rebellions. I think if you had the opportunity to do so, you might come up with a few different answers. It is for this reason that I called them hastily drawn. They attack only the symptoms of trouble, and do not do an effective job even of that. These two amendments seem to me to be as clear an indication as the article by a Colgate professor that I quoted earlier that there is a tragic lack of communication and sympathy between those who are in authority and the young who have begun to question the motives of those authorities, and the uses to which they put their power. The best thing the Congress can do in this trying period, because indeed it is a trying period, is to continue to support the universities and their students, to fulfill our commitment to them, and then to increase that commitment. To intervene in campus disciplinary pro- ceedings would constitute a serious overaction. Local authorities should be left to deal with their problems as they see fit. No doubt, many of them will make mistakes of judgment or tactics, as they act under pressure. There is little that the Federal Government can do, and there is probably nothing that it should do, to prevent this. There is no uniform Federal code of student conduct and discipline that we can impose and enforce without doing basic, perhaps irrep- arable harm both to our system of government and to our free uni- versities. Each must solve its own problems and in doing so move forward to an understanding and acceptance of its altered role in society. We will not succeed in understanding what is happening if we act out of the ignorance that fear and anger produce. We will never be able to restore the status quo. We cannot, in the catch phrase, "solve the problem of campus unrest." We should not, if we could. Instead, we should listen to what our children and the students are saying. They are young, they are sometimes foolish, and they are sometimes ridiculous, but they are so often so much better than

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we were that we should feel humble, and give them the sympathetic hearing they deserve. They are saying to us, "You do not practice what you preach," and they are right. They are saying they want real democracy now, not gradualism and tokenism. They are only asking us to live up to what we say we believe. We have been preaching many, many sermons. There is no more time for sermons. It is time to seek actions rather than words. If we do not listen, we run the terrible risk of leaving them prey to agitators, political misleaders who will find them easy to convince that the only way to achieve justice is with violence-bombs, bricks, and guns. The warning has become quite clear, and the time to avert such an outcome is very short. Mrs. GREEN. Thank you for that statement. Do you have questions, Congressman Hathaway ? Mr. HATHAWAY. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I want to thank you, Mrs. Chisholm, for a very good statement. I take it your solution to the problem at least for the present is to keep the Federal Government out of student unrest and to leave it up to the college administrators and hopefully they heed the warnings of Secretary Finch and yourself and others to have a broader basis on which to run their universities and perhaps they will be more open. Is that the gist of your testimony ? Mrs. CHISHOTLM. Yes; precisely. Mrs. GREEN. Mr. Reid? Mr. REID. Thank you, Madam Chairman. First I would like to welcome you here and say how appreciative we are of the time you have taken to prepare this thoughtful state- ment. I think it is very clear from your statement that you are totally opposed to any additional Federal legislation as well as some legisla- tion presently on the books, and if I understand your position cor- rectly you think in essence, and leaving out some of the extremists, that basically most students are concerned about the war, about draft, about abolishing poverty, about social injustice, about the inability of our society and the leadership thereof to effect change? Mrs. CHISHOLM. That is right. Mr. REID. I agree with you that many colleges and universities have been slow to enact reforms. I think the board of trustees is certainly an area that can be looked at and I hope most universities will. Lastly, I think not only should there be better communication on campuses and opportunities for reform within the universities but it is basic that the Federal Government not be stalled in its approach to higher educational opportunity for all as well as educational oppor- tunity at the elementary and secondary level. You are correct, the past administration and to some extent, un- fortunately, this administration as well have cut back sharply as much as 40, 50, 60 percent in basic programs in this area, and in fact it is my view and I take it to be yours that what we need is a wholly new order of national effort to make it possible for any young man or woman to go to college where qualified. That would be your view I Mrs. CHISHOLM. Yes; it is.

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Mr. REID. Thank you very much and I appreciate the time you took to your coming. Mirs. GREEN. Congressman Stokes? Mr. STOKES. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mrs. Chisholm, I would like to not only thank you for the statement that you have made before this committee, but I would like also to commend you for having taken the time to put this very timely statement in its proper context, its proper perspective. Your testimony is very similar to that of Mr. Fleming, presi- dent of the University of Michigan, who testified before us last week at which time he, too, told us that the Federal Government should not intervene in campus situations. But lie went a bit further in order to try to give this committee the benefit of his own understanding of campus unrest. In that respect lie told us that the young people of today are quite disturbed about the hypocrisy in our society, and that the three major things that they are disturbed with, of course, is racism, the war, which also included the inequitable Selective Service System which we have and the poverty that exists in the midst of plenty. I at that time posed a question to him. In view of the fact that our colleges and universities do not have the wherewithal to eliminate these three problems which so operate against feelings of these young people, would it not be better for the U.S. Congress to address itself to the eradication of these three problems so that the universities might then proceed with their work of teaching? He quite agreed with this particular statement. I would like to have your views in this respect. Mrs. CHISHOL[r. I certainly concur with those views. One of the difficulties of today is that many of the older folk who happen to be in the authoritative or administrative positions in our Government, and the private sector, are not really attuned to the implications of the struggle that is occurring on the campuses today. We cannot look at the struggle of the students on the campuses in a vacuum. They are the products of a certain kind of society. We have brought them to the point where they say, "We no longer will accept the hypocrisy. We will no longer accept control and supervision from adults whose behavior and whose attitudes do not present themselves as the kind we expect, or wish to follow." We have to be examples, not only by our words but by our actions and our behavior. You see the young people see through so much of this kind of thing. We are spending a great deal of time focusing on them; we should focus on ourselves as well. The students are causing much concern because they are engaged in behavior that has never been engaged in by any group of young people before. But focusing on their behavior is not going to be the answer to the problem. We keep sticking our heads into the sand like ostriches with- out really addressing ourselves to what the causes of the difficulties are. Until we get to the causes of the difficulties confronting us with respect to racism, poverty, and the like, we are not going tote able to satisfy these young people who have a commitment to social justice.

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Mr. STOKES. Mirs. Chisholm, let me ask you this: So many people who merely read about situations existing on campus and thle fact that students are making certain demands and, of course, we hear so Many people say, "What is wrong with the schools now ? We went to that same school," and that kind of thing. There does not appear to be a great deal of real information on the part of many people, real knowledge, as to the legitimacy of some of the grievances some of these young people have on these universities. With the knowledge that you have traveled around the country, and you have been present anat heard what some of the grievances are, could we have your comments in that respect? SMrs. CHISnoLM. Certainly. When you speak to groups at campuses in a public meeting-and in the little groups of students who come to you and will not want to share publicly what they are concerned about-they will tell you they are very, very concerned about the inequality in this country which exists on many different levels. They verbalize it in different ways, but they are very concerned over the fact that those who are in leadership positions in our country are constantly telling them to do as I say but not as I do. They see the contradiction between the behavior and the attitudes of many in high- powered positions and the actual way in which they conduct themselves. They tell you very quickly. I remembered two young women telling me at the university, "Mrs. Chisholm, I am not going to follow persons merely because they are adults or because they have degrees in front or behind their names." This is just terminology they use. "I am going to follow persons that I can have a deep respect for, persons who have a concern for social justice in this country, not by the words they preach but by the lives they are living." This is what it is all about. We are scattering ourselves all around and skirting the problem and not really getting to the basis of the difficulties. Mr. STOKES. On a couple of occasions when I have had occasion to talk to some of these young people on the campuses, I find that there is a situation existing to which you make reference here in your prepared remarks, and that is the reluctance and the resistance to change which is built into so many of our institutions. I have talked with some young fellows who have the problem of trying as best they know how to arbitrate, negotiate, and to mediate and yet they find themselves confronted with this status quo posture, this refusal, this resistance to change, and simultaneously they have the problem with the more militant student of his being able to say to them. "We told you so. We told you the were not going to listen to you. Now we are going to do it our way, and of course their way, which the other student is trying to avoid, is to resort to violence. Sol it is a pathetic thing when I talk to these young people to find that in many cases it is only after they resort to violence that we see the institution then bending itself to sit down and arbitrate and mediate with them when they could have done so so easily in the absence of any violence by responding to the more responsible student who wanted to do it in the customary normal way. Do you have any comments on that ?

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do not have a reputation for being attuned to the younger generation and they are making the decisions that are going to affect the lives of these young people. Many of them also have no understanding of what is going on out here by virtue of the particular class of society in which they are moving. I am not saying that is their fault but this is a fact. If you are a bank president and come to a trustee board meeting once or twice a year you are not going to be tuned in. I think it would be interesting, by the way, to look at the attendance record of many of these trustees. SIt begins to tell you something. I do not say they shoulder all of the blame but they shoulder part of the blame. Mr. ERLENBORN. I notice your statement says, "Let me urge you to consider how un-American, in the strict sense of the word, such repressive actions would be." I couldn't help but think that very same statement could have been and probably was made by some of our southern friends when the Civil Rights Act was passed that would prohibit the use of Federal funds for primary, secondary, higher education, hospitals and so forth in the South. I have noticed some of these very people have changed their thinking on this issue. They now feel that withholding Federal aid to the col- leges and universities would be a good way to impose our standards of conduct on the college campus. I wonder if you see a valid difference between the use of Federal funds and the withholding of Federal funds in the way of grants, loans, and so forth from schools and hos- pitals to enforce the Civil Rights Act and the withholding of those funds to enforce codes of conduct on the college campus. Mrs. CHISHoLM. I don't think you can make the same sort of anal- ogy. First of all, most of the riots and student rebellions that are being conducted now on the campuses are not being conducted by the students who are in receipt of Federal grants and receipt of subsidies and money. I think if you accept that basic premise, then you do not have a correct analogy here because, for the most part, you will find that the students who are really getting the help from the Government through grants, subsidies, and so forth, are not the ones who are running or leading the rebellions. Mr. ERLBNBORN. I am not talking about aid to the students. I am talking about funds that go to the institution itself. In enforcing the Civil Rights Act, we say, regardless of whether the poor student is going to get an education or not, if desegregation guidelines are not followed, the institution is not eligible for funds. This is what some of our colleagues are now suggesting, that we make colleges ineligible for funds if they do not maintain order on the campus. I think there is an analogy. Mrs. CHISHOLM. I can understand why they are doing that. We have to come up with some answers to the problems that confront us today on our campuses because from day to day the problem is growing and you have to come up with some answers. It is very understandable that this could be one of the methods that will be used, but I don't think it is the right answer. Mr. CI.AY. Would the gentleman yield?

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Mr. ERLENBORN. Mr. Reid asked me to yield to him first and I have already yielded to him. Mr. REm. Thank you very much. Refering to the colloquy you had with the gentleman from Illinois, I think you are correct that boards of trustees have not always been responsive or attuned to what is happening or see the need for change. I have seen one board which, for a period of time, had only one edu- cator on the board, and the communication with the students was minimal. I do not think this is a matter for the Congress or this committee to look at but I do think it is a matter for universities to look at to make sure their boards are responsive to the need for change and the basic importance of communication with all elements of the university. Mr. ERLENBORX. One last question. In your statement you tend to treat the students who are involved in the campus unrest as a rather monolithic group. I wondered if you would agree with those who testified before this committee, educators from the college and uni- versity campuses, that there are diverse elements within this group, some of whom apparently have no desire to improve the college campus or to improve the society, but whose sole aim is to destroy the institu- tions and to destroy our society. Mrs. CHISHOLM. I concur with that. There are different groups that are functioning on the campuses today. I would like to make a differentiation between the black students, and the SDS groups. Both groups are committed to bringing about some changes in the university and maybe even in society, but in the case of black students, they are trying first of all to bring about the change within the struc- ture. They are trying to dramatize the grievous errors and wrongs that havebeen a part of their life and heritage in this country, and they are asking now to be permitted to enter-permit me to use that phrase--and they are trying very hard to see if they cannot get that recognition. Of course, in some instances, they have tried and they have failed, so many of them are resorting now to other tactics which you do not condone and I don't condone. But basically they want in. On the other hand, you have the SDS group, a group which ques- tions the values of this society. In fact, many of them have given up hope with respect to what this society stands for and what it means. I would like to say here that so many persons are very concerned about the grievances of the black students and the behavior of the black students. I want to say to all of you, you had better stop paying so much attention to the black students because at least they are attempting to tell you that we, too, are a part of America and we want to be let in. At least they are trying first of all to do it within the framework of the structure. On the other hand, you have many white students, and I am not talking about socially deprived students either, many white students who are committed to destroying this society. So stop focusing in the wrong direction, because this country is in great trouble. We should begin to focus on some of the other groups on the campus and realize that many, in the very realistic sense should not be fighting or

930 rebelling because many of them come from wonderful, beautifytul homes, big incomes, big cars. I have cmet some of the most angelic looking white women who are a Ipart of this movement. They are rebelling against a society that is a sham and hyprocisy. To many of them it is not a question of money, position, or curriculum. They are tired of it. So stop focusing just on the black students but get to the root of tli difficulties. You have not only the black students asking to get in but you have the white students who are already in trying to destroy this society. Mr. EnIHNnoRN. How do you react to the situation at. the university facilities at Chicago where they wanted separate but equal facilities? Mrs. CmIInoaLM. I guess it is racism in the reverse. You always have to look at these things in the context of the particular situation, be- cause for quite some time black students, and I was one of those black students way back in my school days, have been asking for the con- sideration of certain things in the curriculum, certain things that would paint my people, who have made certain contributions, into the heritage of America. 1 got no place fast. I was not militant. I just went on grumbling and groaning, as so many of us have done in the past. But now we have a new generation who are through with gradualism, tokenism, see-how- far-you've-comeism. They are tired of that. They want their share of equality and opportunity in this country and, at times, even people like me can't even give them a sense of direction any longer, because some of them now regard me as a person not moving fast enough. Those of you who know me, know I do move, so I think you can understand what is really happening. They feel it is the only way that America is going to begin to recognize them as a people who have made a contribution and it has to be done through black studies. When they tried to do it otherwise, nobody paid attention. Well, now this is the way it is going to be. You have to understand the black movement in America did not come overnight. The black movement in America today as it is cur- rently being exhibited, is the result of years of postponement, years of denial and years of insult, and now we really feel we are going all the way, we can't turn back. So you have to understand it in the context in which it is happening. Mr. Em.lxnonw. It seems to me over the past 20 or 30 years there has been progress, but separate but equal facilities, this is regression, not progress. Mis. CHISHOLMr. It is regression for the person who sits where you do, but for the black person who has tried to say to the white majority, we do want in, who has sat around conference tables and has gone to conferences, has surveyed, and so on, and still has not been able to be included in the curriculum, it is an affirmation. This is the only way for some people. In other words, what I am saying is that some people are not any longer willing to listen to any more talk. There hasbeen a lot of talk. Mr. ERTENDORN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mrs. G IRE.Mr. Burton. Mr. BurTox. I would like to commend our distinguished colleague

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I'rom New York, Mr. Chislioln, for her first-rate statement, and that just about says it all, as far as I am concerned. Mrs. O( E. Congressman Clay. Mr. C(iA, . There is very little I can add to that except I would like to commend Mrs. Chisholm for a forthright and informative state- enut. 1 think it has added significance because of the vast experience and background that you have in the field of education and par- ticularly because of your identification with some of the people who are now demanding reform on our college campuses. I would like to inject a statement into the record in answer to a ques- tion which was asked bv my colleague from Illinois, posing it as such, should we favor the holding of funds at colleges because of the unrest, do we favor holding funds from school districts who did not comply with the civil rights legislation? I think the analogy is quite different in the two cases. One, in regard to holding of funds for integration, we are talking about Federal punitive measures to apply to force compliance with a Federal law. In the instance of the college campuses to my knowledge, there are no Federal laws that. are being violated. If we are talking about the destruction of the property, that is a State offense. If we are talking about some of the other measures, trespassing, et cetera, these are State offenses and I am certain that those who are advocating States rights are not willing to give in on these significant matters such as the surrendering of these powers to the Federal Government. I would like to commend you once again for the statement that you have brought before us. I thfnk we need well on this committee to look to the causes of the unrest and this is what very few witnesses before our committee have come here and talked about, why the students are rebelling. Most who have come before this committee or the majority, have come here talking in terms of oppressive legislation to put down the rebellion instead of trying to explain to us why we are having rebellions. T would like to commend you for your statement. Mrs. GrREEN.. Are there any other questions? Congressman Stokes? Mr. STroi.s. Madam Chairman, let me take just a moment to ad- dress myself to an analogous situation to the question pointed up by Congressman Erlenborn, with reference to the University of Chicago. Over at Antioch College in Ohio, we saw a similar situation there where black students wanted separate dormitory facilities exclusively for black students. With reference to the question of separate but equal, I don't think there is anything separate but equal. I think in the context of the struggle and the fight the black people in America have had for these many years. for equal rights, we have experienced that there is no such tling asseparate but equal. Separate is inherently unequal. To understand that situation T looked at the Antioch situation very closely. What these young people were trying to do, it seems to me, is this: With the realization that they have lived in a society where they have been taught, that they ore inferior and that black is ominous and bad; with the realization that they were acquiring an education in order to try to function in a world where there was still inequality and injustice along with the

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acquisition of the new pride that black people have acquired, both in their ethnic origin and in their contribution to this culture, these young people in order to prepare themselves for the future, felt a need to experiment with living together as a living experience in order to regroup and share some of the psychological problems that have accompanied their growing up, so that along with their acquisi- tion of their education, they can prepare themselves in the world which the Kerner report has told us about. This report told us that our society is moving toward being two societies, one black, one white. I can well understand how a young black student of today would need this kind of regrouping when he tried to project himself into the world in which he is going to live and work. Though I personally reject separatism, unalterably, I can well un- derstand how, if I were 18 or 19 years old today and looked around at the kind of society in which I lived, such an experience might be bene- ficial in terms of being able to function at the level at which one needs to function in this particular society. Mrs. CmISHOLro . would like to make one brief remark. On many of the campuses which I visited it was very interesting to note that the black students and the white students did not really function together. Even though the administration of many of these campuses have said, we have taken you in and there is not going to be any difference here. You can move as any other student. What has happened is that many of the white students have not reached out to encompass the black students. Many of them come on the campuses with the attitude of their parents or their background, so it is often very, very hard for them to try to reach out. So you find on some of your campuses isolation into groups of black students here, Puerto Ricans here, and the white stu- dents in another group. They are not succeeding often because the administration is not doing enough to try to make this thing succeed. Students have to assume the role. This is one of the reasons why it is so important that your trustees have younger people on the board. I really mean that. Mrs. GREEN. Thank you, Mrs. Chisholm. There is a possibility of a meeting on Thursday morning. (Whereupon, at 3 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene subject to the call of the chairman.)