Krzysztof Penderecki: an Interview and an Analysis of Stabat Mater and passionate idiom which owes much place where I really could not go any by Ray Robinson to the influence of post-Wagnerian further because of the musical The John F. Kennedy Center for the chromaticism with its expressive language; all the complex polyphony Performing Arts will be the scene on melodic lines, its lyrical outpouring, and becal71e so complicated. After the triple November 23, 1983, of an important its dramatic highlights. In the words of fugue in Magnificat, I did not think that I . musical event: the fiftieth birthday the German critic Wolfram SchWinger could repeat the same things and write celebration of the Polish composer "the composer has moved from th~ more complicated music; I did not have Krzysztof Penderecki. On this occasion realm of tonal planes to the realm of an interest in doing so. I think that is the Washington National Symphony melody." It is thus not inconceivable . writing music which is only technique, and its conductor Mstislav that those who venture to the nation's i and composing with so much technique Rostropovitch will devote an entire capital to attend Penderecki's fiftieth involved does not interest me: My evening to the works of Penderecki. birthday celebration may be surprised music has .always been very personal, The concert will include the a cappella by the sounds they hear. so if it becomes too technical, I have to choral piece Stabat Mater (1962), the Who is this composer who has stop. American premiere of the Concerto for emerged from an Eastern-bloc country RR: Then pieces like the Psalms of Violoncello and Orchestra (1982), and to become one of the most important David, Miniatures for Clarinet, excerpts from the "Polish" Requiem, composers of our time? Why has he Miniatures for Violin, and Emanations commissioned by the orchestra for this written so many works on religious and would be considered experimental event. The composer will conduct the social themes? What are his plans for works. Would you call these student first half of the program, and Maestro the future? These are among the ques­ pieces? Rostropovitch will lead the orchestra tions this writer asked Penderecki on KP: Oh yes, I was a student at the time I and the Washington Choral Arts Socie­ July 22, 1983, at the Plaza Hotel in wrote those early pieces. I was studying ty in the Requiem. New York, when the composer was in composition and writing in different Of special interest to choral musicians the United States to make final prepara­ styles. Each piece was designed to solve will be the opportunity to hear two tions for the concerts which will take a specific compositional problem. For Penderecki choral works of contrasting place in Washington, D.C., in example, Miniatures for Clarinet shows style. Stab at Mater is one of the com­ November. the influence of Bartok, the Psalms of poser's most important choral composi­ David, the influence of StraVinsky. tions; it is the piece in which he RR: Krzysztof, when your career as a RR: With a little bit of serialism thrown discovered the style that led him to the composer is viewed from the years in. St. Luke Passion (1965-66). The Re­ 1958-1983, there is a tendency to iden­ KP: Oh yes, of course, which I quiem, in contrast, is representative of tify three style periods in your music. Is developed in the slow movement of the Penderecki's most recent compositional this a correct analysis or would you Psalms of David. In the St. Luke Pas­ output. describe the evolution of your composi­ sion you will find the same thing. I Once called the enfant terrible of the tional style in other terms? discovered the style of St. Luke in the Polish avant-garde movement of the KP: I rather think now that there are two Psalms. early 1960s, Penderecki has settled style periods in my career as a com­ RR: So, as you survey your develop­ down in the last decade to emerge as a poser. I do not count the very beginning ment as a composer you would say that pieces like Strophes, which were written composer whose contribution to the your first style period began with before I really started to develop my music of our time falls clearly within the Anaklasis and continued through own language as a composer. The first neo-romantic aesthetic. Gone are the Magnificat (1974). period, I would say, was from Threnody . experiments of the early years KP: Yes, through Magnificat; the (1958-62); missing are the indeter­ and Anaklasis, which were the first Awakening of Jacob (1974) opened the minate Farbmusik sound events of the pieces which I could call my music, until second period. It has elements of both, late 1960s. In their place is a dramatic maybe the Awakening of Jacob; I of course. would say the Magnificat was the last RR: I find in Ecloga VIII the minor third, Ray Robinson is Professor of Music and piece in that style. which appears as a sort of melodic inter­ President of Westminster Choir College in RR: Of the old style? val for the first time in your music; I Princeton, New Jersey. KP: Yes, and in that piece [came to the don't see that happening earlier. NOVEMBER 1983 Page7 KP: But you have this also in periods, the first beginning with RR: What were those pieces? The first Magnificat; the minor third is substan­ _ Anaklasis and Threnody and running Webern Piece? tive in the second subject in the fugue through Magnificat; the second begin­ KP: The Webern String Quartet. and in the last movement. ning with the Awakening of Jacob. RR: The first Schoenberg piece? Was it RR: Beginning with the Awakening of KP: Correct! late or early Schoenberg? Jacob, there unfold a number of works KP: It was the later Schoenberg. A Sur­ which make up this new style: the Violin RR: Who were some of your early com­ vivor from Warsaw was, I think, the first Concerto, the opera Paradise Lost, positional influences? How did they piece I heard. Then his chamber music, Symphony No.2, and then ... relate to the development of your style? his early chamber music. And the KP: Te Deum KP: Well, in the beginning while still a Modern Psalm of Schoenberg. RR: Te Deum, Lacrimosa, and now student, I discovered composers for RR: De profundis? more recently the Cello Concerto, myself, Bartok and Stravinsky (for he KP: Yes! This music influenced me very which you wrote for Mstislav was a very strong influence on all Polish much. I started to write serial music as a Rostr0povitch and the Berlin Philhar­ music at that time), and then in 1957 I result of hearing and studying these monic. So you would say at this point heard for the first time the music of pieces. I wrote Emanations and that there are two rather than three style Schoenber.a and Webern. Threnody then, especially the middle part of Threnody which is more serial. RR: That brings up an interesting point. What caused you to develop the original musical language which we find in Threnody? This is really your language, your music; you didn't copy that style from anyone. This is your original contribution to twentieth­ century composition. KP: Well, first of all, I was a string player. I was at that time still playing and working in a recording studio, ex­ perimenting with the violin and elec­ tronic instruments. I wanted to develop a new musical language. It was not my intention to destroy everything that had been written before me. I only wanted to write my own music, so I was ex­ perimenting; I think the electronic studio helped me at that time in ex­ perimenting with all those clusters. RR: Where did you compose your elec­ tronic works? KP: In Warsaw. RR: Was your experimentation with strings something you had heard in electronic music and were trying to duplicate in stringed instruments, the Subsidized, All-Inclusive Concert Tours To dense quarter-tone clusters, for exam­ ple? AUSTRIA • BULGARIA • CHINA • ENGLAND • GREECE • KP: No, I would say it was more the HUNGARY • INDIA • IRELAND • POLAND • ROMANIA • result of experimenting with the instru­ SCOTLAND • SPAIN • SOVIET UNION • WALES • PORTUGAL ment itself, the search for new sounds America's Largest Private Cultural Exchange Organization with stringed instruments. But, of course, I think that pure electronic music also influenced me at the time. RR: Why was it that after working in an electronic studio for a while you rejected FRIENDSHIP electronic music as your main musical AMBASSADORS medium, or idiom? FOUNDATION KP: I lost interest, I would say. I was very enthusiastic about it at first. But 273 Upper Mountain Avenue after I saw the way this music came out, Upper Montclair, New Jersey 07043 I could not do more. The technique was Outside NJ call toll-free (800) 526-2908 always over me, overwhelming me. In NJ (201) 744-0410 RR: The limitations of the technique? friendship Ambassadors is a non-profit. tax exempt foundation. KP: Yes, and the studio was very PageS THE CHORAL JOURNAL primitive at that time. I still think I can KP: First of all, I was raised in a very Radio Orchestra. I was supposed to per­ do more by using the human voice or religious family, and this influenced my form it for him three or four times, and orchestral instruments than by produc­ life in living with the Bible, which was every time something happened and it ing sounds electronically.