Interview Summary Sheet Project: Memories of Fiction: An Oral History of Readers’ Lives

Reference No.

Interviewee name and title: Brenda Casey

Interviewee DOB and place of birth: Luton, Bedfordshire Interviewee Occupation: Teacher and literacy coordinator Book group(s) attended: Alvering

Date(s) of recording: 8th October 2014 Location of recording: University of Roehampton Interviewer: Amy Tooth Murphy Duration(s): 01.20.53 Summariser: Alison Chand

Copyright/Clearance:

Key themes: Family, school, reading, childhood books, leisure, social class, American fiction, classics, US racial tension, religion.

All books mentioned (those discussed for >20 seconds in bold): Greyfriars Bobby, The Story of Grace Darling, Little Grey Rabbit, Toby Twirl, Rupert Bear, The Odyssey, Christopher Robin, The Wind in the Willows, Noddy, Jane books, Just William, The Valley of Adventure, The Sea of Adventure, Nancy Drew Girl Detective, What Katy Did, What Katy Did at School, Jane Eyre, Cranford, Kidnapped, Treasure Island, Travels with my Donkey, The Lake Isle of Innisfree, Father Brown, Ulysses, Brighton Rock, Jeeves, Dancing to the Flute, The Talented Mr Ripley, The Two Faces of January, A Streetcar Named Desire, The Goldfinch, Crime and Punishment, Oedipus Rex, A View from the Bridge, The Sound and the Fury, The Autobiography of Malcolm X, The Executioner’s Song, 44 Scotland Street, Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky, Tony Benn’s Diaries, The Sacred and Profane Love Machine, A Good Man is Hard to Find, Alias Grace, The Paying Guests, The Little Stranger, Star of the Sea, The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, Julius Caesar, Lord of the Flies.

[01:20:53] [Session One of Two: 8 October 2014]

00.00.0 Introduction to interview, interviewee biographical details. 00.00.45 Remarks on travelling to Helsinki straight after birth as father in foreign office. 00.00.50 Comments on grandfather owning hat factory in Luton, working at 90, family returning to Luton. Remarks on father commuting to Whitehall for work. 00.01.10 Remarks on attending convent school, same school as mother. Comments on mother’s age (44) on giving birth because of war. Remarks on sister attending same school, nuns speaking mostly French and learning to read in French and English at the same time, sister being electively mute, starting to speak at school. 00.02.00 Remarks on teaching herself to read, not really working in kindergarten part of school. Comments on flipover chart in kindergarten – large version of reading books. Remarks on learning alphabet using chart, not feeling that this had anything to do with reading. 00.02.50 Remarks on clear memory of letters suddenly making sense at younger than four. 00.03.07 Comments on first decoding from The Story of Grace Darling, reading scheme books containing short stories, poems and Victorian illustrations, not complete texts. Remarks on memories of Greyfriars Bobby, dog sitting on tomb. 00.04.00 Remarks on being read to as child, having literary parents, being unable to remember not being read to, wanting to read herself. Further comments on importance of reading in family, being read to until relatively late in childhood. 00.04.36 Memories of books read in childhood, comments on Little Grey Rabbit and Pookie Rabbit. Remarks on importance of illustrations, mother being artistic and pointing out illustrations, mention of Margaret Tarrant illustrations. Comments on Toby Twirl, mother being unsure if character was pig or bear. Remarks on not reading or liking Rupert Bear. Further comments on Toby Twirl, sinister adventures in roots of trees, liking map at beginning of book of where he/friends lived. Comments on Toby Twirl characters. 00.06.15 Interviewer states that copy of Toby Twirl brought to interview. Interviewer describes book appearance and layout. Remarks on presentation as annual, books in series, comparisons with copy at interview. Comments on Toby’s role as detective, solving mysteries, amalgam between anthropomorphism and traditional fairytale. 00.07.45 Interviewer description of illustrations, humanistic appearance of Toby, unusual style. Comments on Toby’s interaction with humans, dialogue in rhyme, unusual length, complex plots. Remarks on having Toby Twirl read at age three to four. 00.09.00 Remarks on children being used to listening before television, listening to Children’s Hour on wireless, being good at listening and using imagination in 1950s. 00.09.28 Further comments on mother’s artistic background, doing hat design for grandfather’s hat factory, interest in colour and design. Remarks on mother’s role as housewife, father’s job in foreign office, father working late. Comments on mother ‘reading’ stories, father ‘telling’ stories, telling Greek myths, The Odyssey, making up own stories. Remarks on father’s literary/theatre interests. 00.10.55 Remarks on books around house as child, grandfather living in old Victorian house, crates full of books being stored in house, playroom next door to room where crates of books stored, sifting through books. 00.12.00 Further comments on mother reading to children, growing older into independent reader, sister being avid reader too. Further comments on childhood books – Toby Twirl, Christopher Robin, A. A. Milne books, Buckingham Palace poem. Remarks on grandson learning Buckingham Palace poem. Mention of reading The Wind in the Willows. 00.12.55 Remarks on reading as older child, Enid Blyton as favourite author, comments on never being stopped from reading anything. Comments on mother reading Noddy books, storybooks for younger children. Remarks on lack of interest in dolls, more interest in animals. Comments on dislike of Enid Blyton illustrations, remarks on Blyton’s depictions of different social classes, mother’s descriptions of working class people cutting bread and butter into thick slices, mother’s development of critical faculty when reading. 00.14.40 Remarks on Jane books by Evadne Price, description of Jane as female Just William. Comments on university seminar on Just William books during MA, further comments on Jane books, Jane character. Remarks on Jane as angelic looking, naughty, living in house with servants, laughing out loud at books. Remarks on reading Jane books to father and grandfather aged six or seven. 00.15.44 Comments on doing nothing but reading in 1950s, differences in children’s leisure time. Remarks on playing with toys, playroom. 00.16.15 Further remarks on reading to grandfather, grandfather’s reading habits, grandfather’s favourite writer as Emile Zola, picking up Zola library books for grandfather, later realisation that Zola novels considered racy in 19th century. Remarks on telling grandfather he was too old to understand books to avoid reading particular words. 00.17.10 Further remarks on books read as older child, The Sea of Adventure, The Valley of Adventure, description of these as quite thick, enjoying reading about children doing things without parents. Remarks on Nancy Drew Girl Detective, revival of Nancy Drew. 00.17.35 Remarks on writing and illustrating own detective stories, description of central character Lunette, mother buying drawing and writing books for use at weekends. 00.18.30 Comments on not feeling that childhood activities were unusual, feeling blessed as adult to have learned about literature at young age. 00.20.05 Remarks on deconstructing literature, mother’s family being fair employers, mother and grandfather being involved in protests, awareness of social structures. 00.20.50 Further comments on books read as child, What Katy Did, specifically What Katy Did at School. 00.21.15 Remarks on own work as teacher and literacy coordinator, promotion of quality texts in classroom for children. Comments on teaching Year 6 pupils Jane Eyre, power of being able to introduce texts to children. 00.22.20 Comments on reading books at school, bringing books home and playing at school, attending Montessori based school, learning through play. 00.22.45 Memories of reading aloud aged six at transition stage of school, being given into trouble for showing off and not putting finger under words, not passing comments on this as child. 00.23.30 Comments on reading at school, French reading scheme called Madame Sylvie, mouse and her adventures. Remarks on daily story time at school, difficulties of listening to reading when sisters not familiar with English. Comments on love of school but lack of powerful memories of being read to at school. 00.25.05 Comments on hobbies, sister playing tennis, own dislike of physical activity and team games, enjoyment of playing outside and games involving imagination. Remarks on exercising imagination when walking. 00.25.48 Remarks on Luton during childhood, lack of industry, mother encouraging imagination about town, making industrial sites into magical places. 00.27.05 Comments on attending convent secondary school, not doing much science, remarks on drawing equipment because of nuns’ fear of science. Comments on inspirational English teacher, Miss Bethune, English teacher’s choice of books for O level, reading Cranford, Kidnapped, dislike of Cranford. Comments on enjoyment of Allen Ginsberg’s work, reading Keats, Tennyson at school, reading most English classics. 00.28.35 Remarks on later work writing for BBC, writing notes for Treasure Island musical, enjoying Treasure Island more than Kidnapped. Comments on reading Robert Louis Stevenson’s Travels with my Donkey, remarks on hitch hiking to France in sixth form, memories of bread and chocolate eaten in Travels with my Donkey. 00.29.30 Remarks on immersion in literature at school, making friends with people who also enjoyed literature, further comments on class reading, reading different Shakespeare play every year. 00.30.20 Comments on Michael Gove’s plans to reintroduce classics to schools, remarks on grandson’s dislike of reading, reading grandson The Lake Isle of Innisfree, grandson’s views of poem as beautiful. Remarks on reading classics being a right of children. 00.32.00 Remarks on reading classics at home, father reading Father Brown by G. K. Chesterton, being read to long after being able to read alone. Remarks on father’s Dublin origins, interest in James Joyce, explaining Ulysses when interviewee was teenager. Comments on having reading discussions at home, not perceiving them as lessons. 00.33.15 Remarks on reading in living room in evening. 00.33.20 Comments on English teacher before and for O level, writing book review of Brighton Rock, sister reading books before interviewee. Remarks on family admiration for Graham Greene. 00.34.28 Comments on going to library on Saturday mornings with sister and father, being allowed to go to senior library and reading first adult books. Remarks on reading Jeeves by P. G. Wodehouse, Agatha Christie, Graham Greene. 00.35.40 Remarks on Dancing to the Flute, set in India, different cultural perspective of book, interest in structure of novel, comments on different, critical European readings of story. Remarks on feeling that book was adventurous, new and different. Comments on re-reading known authors, lack of knowledge of foreign authors, remarks on post-modern writing. Further comments on being P. G. Wodehouse fan. 00.38.05 Comments on accessibility of Wodehouse and Agatha Christie books to young and old. Remarks on appeal of Agatha Christie, further comments on Nancy Drew books. Comments on adult interest in Ruth Rendell/Barbara Vine, Ian Rankin. Further remarks on admiration of Ian Rankin, Graham Greene’s comments on Ruth Rendell/Barbara Vine, lack of recognition for detective fiction. 00.40.00 Remarks on reading Patricia Highsmith’s work, film versions of The Talented Mr Ripley and The Two Faces of January. Comments on reliance of mood in Graham Greene and Patricia Highsmith, difficulties of making films. Remarks on watching films on DVD, Graham Greene not translating well to film, character of Pinkie not being as imagined on film, frequent disappointment of films of novels. 00.41.30 Description of Tennessee Williams as favourite writer of all time, enjoyment of Tennessee Williams films, niece going to see A Streetcar Named Desire, reading A Streetcar Named Desire to niece as child, niece naming teddy Stanley Kowalski. 00.42.30 Discussion between interviewer and interviewee about Patricia Highsmith wanting to be Dostoyevsky of her time. 00.43.00 Remarks on reading Dostoyevsky in sixth form, reading again aged 66 and considering role of women in books, interpreting books in different ways. Discussion of character of Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment. 00.43.55 Comments on links between Donna Tartt’s The Goldfinch and Dostoyevsky, theme of redemption, painting of goldfinch symbolising Christ, parallels to Raskolnikov. Comments on impact of reading particular novels on reading other novels. 00.44.50 Remarks on love for American novels, spending time as student reading about American literature on 5th floor of university library. Remarks on preferred American authors, sister buying complete works of Tennessee Williams, not knowing that Williams was gay. Comments on appeal of tragedy, not understanding all themes as teenager. Remarks on lack of feminist perspective as teenager. 00.46.40 Comments on favourite plays, Oedipus Rex, Tennessee Williams, Arthur Miller. Remarks on going to see A View from the Bridge at the theatre. 00.47.15 Description of William Faulkner as favourite novelist, introduction by sister, reading The Sound and the Fury. Comments on sadness of The Sound and the Fury, interest in Deep South, later visits to Georgia, remarks on racism. 00.48.30 Comments on other American authors read – James Baldwin, Ralph Ellison, reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X. Remarks on befriending draft dodger from Vietnam (friend of boyfriend), deciding to visit boyfriend’s friend’s parents in US, comments on mother’s role as secondary school English teacher. Remarks on US school integration, being educated by father on racial injustice, taking part in anti-apartheid movement, studying politics, African history, African studies. 00.50.50 Remarks on choosing Edinburgh University for good anthropology department. Further comments on interest in anthropology, political motivations behind interest. 00.51.35 Further comments on visit to America, African American teacher being unable to visit white families’ homes in 1975. Remarks on father’s advice to always be an outsider without becoming accustomed to social structures. 00.52.15 Comments on feeling like outsider because of Catholic religion. 00.52.40 Remarks on length of visit to American, six to seven months, working in hotel there, Forest Heights Country Club, comments on county’s dry status, country club being raided for liquor. 00.54.15 Further comments on interest in American fiction, protest literature, awareness of black writers, further remarks on racism, parents of friends being unusual in acceptance of black Americans. 00.56.20 Remarks on plans to do PGCE at Durham, travel to Africa to teach, health problems (rheumatic fever) intervening. Comments on doing PGCE at Durham, becoming teacher in Peckham. Remarks on early 1970s teaching environment, clothes swapping events at schools. Comments on teaching children aged six to seven. 00.58.00 Remarks on hopes for teaching career, plans to excite children, working through readers, opportunities for story time at school. Remarks on changes in school curriculums, focus on grammar. Comments on editing books on reading and comprehension, remarks on detail involved, idea that learning language should enable reading. 01.00.55 Remarks on reading on screen, differences to reading physical books. 01.01.15 Remarks on different authors enjoyed – Arthur Miller, Norman Mailer (The Executioner’s Song). Comments on not wanting to re-read unpleasant material at older age. Remarks on enjoyment of Alexander McCall Smith books, pleasant nature, 44 Scotland St. Comments on admiration of Donna Tartt, Patrick Hamilton (Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky). Remarks on being put off Patrick Hamilton’s books by reading autobiography. Comments on reading all of Tony Benn’s diaries, reading Iris Murdoch, changing views of Murdoch with age. 01.03.00 Remarks on books being of their time, some books transcending time. Further comments on Murdoch, changed views of The Sacred and Profane Love Machine. Remarks on memories of themes in Iris Murdoch, differences with William Faulkner, Tennessee Williams. 01.04.30 Further remarks on female authors, Margaret Atwood. Comments on daughter reading A Good Man is Hard to Find to grandson, daughter studying Flannery O’Connor. Further comments on Margaret Atwood, Alias Grace. 01.05.20 Further comments on books being of their time. Comments on enjoyment of Sarah Waters novels, The Paying Guests, The Little Stranger. Remarks on books transcending time, impact of friends at time of reading, life/friendship group changes on reading. Further comments on style of Sarah Waters’s writing, comments on Joseph O’Connor (Star of the Sea). 01.08.50 Remarks on practice of leaving books on park benches. 01.09.20 Remarks on enjoyment of light material, Alexander McCall Smith, recent reading of books on hunchback lawyer in Tudor times, remarks on understandings of Reformation, learning about Tudor period (books by C. J. Samson, professor of history at Birmingham). Further comments on interest in books about outsiders in society. 01.11.30 Remarks on changes to historical novels, studying Walter Scott at A level, not understanding language, previous lack of interest in language of historical novels, greater accessibility of modern historical novels. 01.13.10 Remarks on Scottish novels, Muriel Spark, The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, further comments on books transcending time and space despite being essentially Scottish. Comments on watching Steptoe and Son. 01.14.35 Further comments on reading Brighton Rock, theme of redemption. 01.16.30 Further remarks on childhood reading not feeling unusual, comments on 1960s as different, more literary time, talking about literature with friends, discussing Julius Caesar. 01.17.40 Comments on passing love of literature to family, daughter’s career, daughter home schooling grandson. Remarks on reading to daughter, daughter reading Beatrix Potter. Comments on daughter reading to grandson, reading Lord of the Flies, teaching grandson to deconstruct text through the Wind in the Willows. 01.19.20 Remarks on grandson’s relationship with reading, not having television at home. 01.20.10 Closing remarks to conclude interview. 01.20.53 ENDS