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Friday Volume 494 26 June 2009 No. 100 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Friday 26 June 2009 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 1043 26 JUNE 2009 1044 House of Commons Holocaust (Return of Cultural Objects) Bill Friday 26 June 2009 (CHANGED FROM Holocaust (Stolen Art) restitution Bill) The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill Committee PRAYERS The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means took Third Reading the Chair as Deputy Speaker (Standing Order No. 3). 9.47 pm Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): I beg to move, That the House sit in private. Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 163). I am grateful for the support that the Bill has The House divided: Ayes 1, Noes 28. received from both sides of the House. At the outset, I Division No. 166] [9.34 am would like to thank the Under-Secretary of State for AYES Culture, Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member Robathan, Mr. Andrew Mr. Andrew Dismore and for Stevenage (Barbara Follett), her predecessor and Willie Rennie her officials—especially Hillary Bauer—for their help Tellers for the Ayes: in bringing the Bill to this stage. I also pay tribute to those who have campaigned for it, especially Anne NOES Webber of the Commission for Looted Art in Europe, Jon Benjamin of the Board of Deputies and my noble Beith, rh Sir Alan Kidney, Mr. David Brazier, Mr. Julian Knight, rh Jim Friend Lord Janner, who has been a stalwart on the Chope, Mr. Christopher Lait, Mrs. Jacqui whole issue of holocaust restitution and who has Clark, Paul Lewis, Dr. Julian agreed to take up the Bill in the other place if it receives Eagle, Maria Neill, Robert a Third Reading today. Follett, Barbara Pearson, Ian The Bill has changed its appearance somewhat since Francois, Mr. Mark Penrose, John its Second Reading, through amendments made in Gardiner, Barry Rammell, Bill Committee, but its effect and the policy behind it remain Hanson, rh Mr. David Seabeck, Alison the same. It is now supplemented by explanatory notes Heath, Mr. David Spellar, rh Mr. John and an impact assessment produced by my hon. Friend Hope, Phil Vaizey, Mr. Edward Howarth, Mr. Gerald the Minister’s officials. Its new title—the Holocaust Whittingdale, Mr. John Irranca-Davies, Huw (Return of Cultural Objects) Bill—better describes its Jackson, Mr. Stewart Tellers for the Noes: purpose, which is straightforward: it is to meet our Johnson, Ms Diana R. Steve McCabe and moral, if not legal, obligation to provide a mechanism Keeley, Barbara Kerry McCarthy for the return to their rightful owners of cultural objects held in national collections that were looted during the The Deputy Speaker declared that the Question was Nazi period. not decided because fewer than 40 Members had participated I have taken a particular interest in this issue since in the Division (Standing Order No. 41). first being elected to the House in 1997. On 17 February 2000, in response to a parliamentary question from me, the then Arts Minister—now my noble Friend Lord Point of Order Howarth—announced the setting up of the Spoliation Advisory Panel under the chairmanship of Sir David 9.46 am Hirst. He said that the panel would consider and advise Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): On a on claims from anyone who had lost possession of a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. On Wednesday, cultural object during the Nazi era, when such an object Mr. Speaker said that was now in the possession of a UK national collection “when Ministers have key policy statements to make, the House or gallery. Since then, the panel has adjudicated on a must be the first to hear them”.—[Official Report, 24 June 2009; number of claims. It does so in detail, and shows Vol. 494, c. 797.] fairness to both sides. Its most recent report, published Today, in clear breach of that ruling, the Secretary of only on Wednesday this week, concerned eight drawings State for Children, Schools and Families has announced, in the Courtauld collection. It did not uphold that through The Guardian and the BBC, that the Government particular claim, although it dealt with the case extremely have abandoned their literacy and numeracy strategy. sympathetically. The Secretary of State is either illiterate or contemptuous The system provides an alternative to expensive and of Mr. Speaker’s ruling, or both. What power do you long-drawn-out legal proceedings, but it does not preclude have, Madam Deputy Speaker, to require the Secretary that remedy if someone wishes to use it. The panel of State to attend the House today to apologise? makes recommendations, including for compensation or for restitution, to the Secretary of State. So far, so Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): I will bring to good. The problem is that the law does not allow Mr. Speaker’s attention the hon. Gentleman’s remarks, restitution for works held in some collections, as there is which will of course now be on the record. no power to de-acquire—the current term—items. In 1045 Holocaust (Return of Cultural 26 JUNE 2009 Holocaust (Return of Cultural 1046 Objects) Bill Objects) Bill [Mr. Andrew Dismore] being passed, on to the Order Paper. I think he had to get up early in the morning to get this opportunity; it other museums, the situation is different, leading to was time well spent. unjust, unfair and sometimes downright ludicrous outcomes The best way of getting a private Member’s Bill where one of a pair of objects held in different collections passed is to pick up a subject that the Government are can be restituted while the other cannot. The Bill seeks committed to advancing, but have failed to do. The to remedy that problem. Government can then breathe a sigh of relief and use The best estimate is that there are about 20 looted the vehicle provided by the private Member’s Bill. That items in UK museums, but there could be more. The is exactly what the hon. Gentleman’s Bill does. This process of research by families is ongoing, and it can country has long been committed to amending the law take quite a while to locate an item and document a to allow the restitution of artefacts and artistic objects claim, but not every rightful owner may want restitution. that were plainly looted. It has been an embarrassment Some might, but others might settle for an ex gratia that we have not done so. compensation payment or might simply want a public My Select Committee considered this issue a couple acknowledgement of rightful ownership by the gallery of years ago and called on the Government to make the or museum concerned. It should be possible for the necessary change. We were just one of a long list of rightful owners to have the object back, once the matter bodies to have done so. I thoroughly support the Bill has been decided to the satisfaction of Spoliation Advisory and I am delighted that it is likely to succeed. Panel, on its recommendation to the Minister; and that One has to accept that the Bill is largely symbolic. We should not be prevented by the unintended consequences amended provisions in Committee to cover Wales, although of the current law. there are no national institutions in Wales that would My Bill will provide a process, with appropriate benefit from the Bill. It is nevertheless plainly right that safeguards, to achieve that outcome. It aims to work by we should extend it across the country. Equally, the one agreement and by consensus. If there were a huge object—the Beneventan missal—where there is clear dispute, it would not work and the item would not be evidence that it should be returned will not be covered returned. The process is straightforward. The item claimed by the Bill, unless another application is made, because is referred to the panel; if the panel finds the object to it has already been considered. It may well be that the be spoliated, it makes a recommendation for restitution Bill’s provisions are never used. The Spoliation Advisory to the Secretary of State if it thinks that is the proper remedy. Panel has met very few times and the Bill may well pass If the Secretary of State accepts the recommendation on to the statute book and lie there. In my view, however, that restitution is appropriate, he or she can trigger a that does matter. It is the fact that we have made the power, not a duty, of de-accession to the museum change that matters. concerned, which can then transfer the object to its Many terrible atrocities were committed during the rightful owner. holocaust, and the looting of art is very minor in The Bill contains a series of safeguards. It does not comparison with some of the horrific events that took override any special conditions or trust under which an place. The difference is that this issue is one that we can object may be held. That would require complex legislation, do something about and put right.