Parliamentary Debates (HANSARD)

THIRTY-SIXTH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION 2001

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

Thursday, 18 October 2001

Legislative Council

Thursday, 18 October 2001

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE The meeting commenced at 9.17 am. Division 67: Indigenous Affairs, $17 911 000 - Hon Kate Doust, Deputy Chairman. Hon G.T. Giffard, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Indigenous Affairs. Mr R. Curry, Acting Director General. Mr C. Vinci, Acting Director, Heritage Culture and Business Services. Mr S. Stylianou, Manager, Finance and Administration. Ms P. Thorley, Acting Director, Operations. Mr T. Carleton, Principal Project Officer. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty to assist Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance. For the information of members, these proceedings will be reported by Hansard. The daily Hansard will be available the following morning. Hansard will distribute documents for correction, which must be returned on the A4 documents sent to members. The cut-off date for corrections will be indicated on the bottom of each page. Members are asked to sit towards the front of the Chamber where practicable so that witnesses will not have to turn their head when answering questions. It will greatly assist Hansard if when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I seek your cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to your advisers. May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The Committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. At this time, I ask the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form. WITNESSES: Yes The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Do all the witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: We have received some questions on notice from Hon Derrick Tomlinson, and I now table the questions and responses. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Thank you, Madam Deputy Chair, for the answers to the questions on notice. For the parliamentary Hansard record, the questions related to the number of local area coordinators, the location of the district officers and whether there would be any change. I note in the answer that there are 58 personnel in those offices, and 18 local district officers located in all parts of State, from the metropolitan area to Fitzroy Crossing, Kalgoorlie, Laverton, Port Hedland, Onslow and so on. Given that the Department of Indigenous Affairs has no independent capacity for functions and is in place to coordinate the functions of other government agencies, what do the officers in those 37 local area coordinating bodies do? [9.20 am] Mr CURRY: Local area coordination is a model of coordinating services at a local level, in which the officer is locally based, with the intention that the individual officer becomes familiar with the area in which he works. The officer often E714 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] has discretionary funding, and works closely with local communities in identifying their needs. It is a model that is not uncommon in other jurisdictions and internationally. In Western Australia, this model has worked well in the disability services areas, in which a person is locally based with a small constituency of about 50 people in a small geographical area. The model was applied to Aboriginal affairs three and a half years ago, and was recently found wanting because the principles that underpinned local area coordination did not work well for Aboriginal affairs. The obvious point is that in some cases a locally-based person has a constituency of several thousand people, who are spread over a vast geographical area, and what they were asked to do posed questions about the effectiveness of local area coordination. There were additional problems in retaining staff in these local areas as they were single-person offices, and in the first three years we experienced a high turnover rate. The changes that are occurring in the department are not intended to change the emphasis on locally-based people who understand what is going on. We are changing our focus to ensure that those officers have a clearer direction in the work they do with the land agenda, discharging of our responsibilities under the Heritage of Western Australia Act, and providing the coordinating role of bringing government agencies together to address the concerns and issues that confront local communities. An issue facing this Government - and it faced the previous Government - is the view that government services should provide a single face to government, rather than individual government agencies driving to communities to do their particular piece of business. Local area coordinators have a major role in coordinating that level of support to communities in a joined-up approach to Government. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I note that coordination role and the recent initiatives by the Premier to establish an Aboriginal consultative committee for policy and program. Also, last week the Premier signed an agreement with the heads of Aboriginal agencies for the coordination and delivery of localised delivery of services, and the Aboriginal Lands Trust has built-in obsolescence because it is returning land to the Aboriginal people. Therefore, it would appear that the only function left for the department will be Aboriginal heritage. Given that that role could be carried out by the Western Australian Museum, what is the life expectancy of the department? Mr CURRY: The document signed by the Premier and the state chair of the advisory council for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission is intended to establish a partnership arrangement with ATSIC - not a contractual arrangement - built on respect for the mutual responsibilities and obligations. We see a great advantage in working with ATSIC - as does the Government - because that partnership will engage with the elected arm of ATSIC. That elected arm has the potential to do considerable good work for us. Also, under the restructure of ATSIC, that elected arm has access to money. Approximately $240 million is provided to ATSIC each year for various programs in Western Australia, and the elected arm’s primary responsibility is the distribution of that money. ATSIC operates on a model in which the local representation of issues is effectively presented to Canberra for the distribution of that money. In that regard we are establishing our role in working with ATSIC. That is a broader role for ATSIC - it is not ATSIC singularly, but ATSIC representing the Aboriginal legal services, the community health organisations and the native title bodies, all of which have elected representation. They marry with government business through the Indigenous Affairs Advisory Council - which was previously the Aboriginal Affairs Coordinating Committee - to provide advice to the Government from that elected arm base. The Department of Indigenous Affairs will continue to provide advice to the Government from that elected arm base. The DIA will continue to advise the Government - that is one of our two major outputs - based on our understanding of advice to the Government. The third component that we are trying to bring into this equation is the other commonwealth agencies. The Indigenous Affairs Advisory Council could be chaired by anybody. However, it is my preference that it be chaired through the Department of the Premier and Cabinet because we want to establish that body within the machinery of government. The DIA will continue to provide ongoing commentary to the Government about what is happening on the ground with services. I do not want to detract from other government departments, but I believe that an agency can sometimes have a single focus and it can describe its outcomes for its primary business. One of the major shifts over the years in the government approach to service stability has been an attempt to address what we call a “program logic” to service delivery. This program logic attempts to describe the problem that is trying to being addressed and the agencies that need to be involved, and it looks at whether those agencies are delivering the right sort of programs. If not, the programs must be changed or modified. It also attempts to identify gaps in the system. We see an ongoing, enduring role for the Department of Indigenous Affairs in giving advice to government. It is a small organisation - 130 people cover the length and breadth of the State. The Aboriginal Lands Trust is responsible for 330 parcels of land over 27 million hectares, which is approximately 13 per cent of the service area of the State. It is a complex agenda, and it meshes with native title. It is a time-limited role. We are putting more resources into land to link the Aboriginal Lands Trust process with the native title process, so that the Government does not fall over itself because the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. The ALT process has proved to be problematic. It is a complex issue. We can provide more detail if members require, as a representative from the ALT is here today. The process is taking longer than we expected, and that has been acknowledged within government. The five-year time line is unrealistic. Our intention it is to prepare a cabinet submission to focus ALT activity around the native title process. The major shift Aboriginal people experience when they get land is that they have something of substance that they did not have before. Our strategy, which is not inconsistent with previous approaches, is to ensure sustainability of [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E715 programs and outcomes through better economic and social advantages from the transfer of land. In that way government will not have to continually put in money. DIA has a secondary role in the long term to assist building the capacity of those communities to benefit from the transfer of land, although it will always be involved in a range of one- off service and ALT issues. Primarily, the department responds to the needs of Aboriginal communities. They are the two primary goals that I believe will keep this organisation in business for some time. I cannot give a definite basis of that time. [9.30 am] Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to the capital works program on page 1155 of the Budget Statements, which shows an estimated expenditure of $830 000. What is the purpose of this funding and the strategy for utilising it? Mr STYLIANOU: The $830 000 capital works program is primarily aimed at improving the department’s information management systems. The department has various core systems, including the heritage system and the land register system. The program also involves asset replacement. We are still running Windows 95, and we want to bring our software up to speed. They are the two major components of the capital works program for this year. Hon PETER FOSS: One of the areas of concern, which was raised yesterday by the Director General of the Department of Justice, is the overrepresentation of Aboriginal people in the justice system. The Aboriginal Justice Council has drafted an Aboriginal justice plan, which has been endorsed by the Justice Coordinating Council. The basis of the plan is that it should be implemented by Aboriginal people, but some local support is needed for explanation and adoption. What is the status of that plan, and does the department have a role in assisting with its local adoption? Mr CURRY: The Aboriginal justice plan was one of the first attempts within government to align government business with a clear objective to reduce the overrepresentation of Aboriginal people in the criminal justice system. It addresses the underlying causes of family issues, policing and education. It addressed a range of other issues, but those are the three primary areas in which the plan hopes to bring about a change from focusing on outcomes in the justice area. The Department of Justice is the lead agency for the justice plan. The role of the then Aboriginal Affairs Department, spelt out in the coordinating agreement, was to bring together various agencies to facilitate the development of the plan under the guidance of the chair of the Aboriginal Justice Council. The plan has not progressed, although I cannot comment on what may be the Department of Justice’s current intentions. The major difficulty with these sorts of plans is not the quality of the plan but achieving coordination across government. It is an excellent plan. In progressing this, the Department of Indigenous Affairs has reinvigorated the Aboriginal Affairs Coordinating Committee through the establishment of the Indigenous Affairs Advisory Council. The political constituency for the IAAC is the standing committee on social policy, which has representation from the Department of Justice and the Police Service. We will put to the standing committee the proposition that the justice plan should be one of the primary drivers for business in the next 12 months of government, mainly because the plan has been drafted, it is well thought out and has a sound base. It is based on evidence, resulting from much planning. That committee will meet for the first time in December this year. We are discussing with the Department of Justice putting the plan on the agenda to ensure that it is given some life. However, I cannot comment on the thinking of the Director General of the Department of Justice. These comments are only an observation. Hon PETER FOSS: I asked the question because of Mr Curry’s earlier statement about the local area coordinators. I agree that they were not a great success. However, the chair of the Aboriginal Justice Council believed that the local area coordinators could provide real assistance with the adoption of local plans. One of the basic theories of the plan - it relates to the summit on Aboriginal deaths in custody - is that all action should be agreed with and driven by the local Aboriginal communities, and that they should be assisted to formulate their own plans. The difficulty is finding a mechanism for driving local plans. The only agency that appeared to have resources in that area was the Department of Indigenous Affairs. However, if the department has gotten rid of the local area coordinators - I do not object to that - it may also have gotten rid of the only people who were able to assist the Aboriginal Justice Council. Is there any alternative, and has the loss of that particular area been understood? [9.40 am] Mr CURRY: The staff involved with local area coordination are still within the agency. The only change is that we have moved away from the structural aspects of local area coordination, in which officers located in towns were given an unrealistic brief. Those officers continue to exist, although some consider land and heritage as a greater priority. The officers are still based in the regional areas. They will take a more coordinated and strategic focus. I hope that satisfies the member. We want local regional staff to be more active in progressing agendas, rather than responding to individual needs in the community. A large amount of time of the local area staff was taken up by people walking through the front door with bills or issues that needed to be resolved. Although those matters should not be dismissed, I do not believe they are the responsibility of the Department of Indigenous Affairs. People with housing problems should deal with the Department of Housing and Works, and so on. We want to put the plan on the agenda of the IAAC; and we hope that by doing so we can instruct our staff on their role in actively promoting it in a coordinated way at a regional level within government.

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If a community identifies justice issues as a high priority to be addressed through its remit, the Department of Indigenous Affairs should coordinate services and engage with the community on the approaches it wishes to take. The plan provides an excellent, simple to understand way of addressing it. If, on the other hand, the community says that it can live with the justice issues, and its priorities are health or education issues, the department does not want to direct the community to address those issues in certain ways. On the other hand, the plan provides good guidance for government officials who deal with justice matters. The focus for government agencies, and primarily the lead responsibility of the Department of Justice, is to examine the contribution and activity of other agencies, at least at program level, to determine whether there is a good mix of programs to address justice issues. The role of the Department of Indigenous Affairs is less involved in driving the plan, which lies within the bailiwick of the Department of Justice. The department’s primary role is to facilitate coordination and engagement with the Aboriginal community, to understand the agenda and assist government agencies to undertake business with the community on matters that need to be addressed. The views of the former Chair of the Aboriginal Justice Advisory Committee are correct. This will not work unless Aboriginal communities play a participatory role. The first step, and one of the contributions we can and will make, is the engagement with those communities on justice issues. Hon FRANK HOUGH: I refer to the fourth dot point at page 1147, which reads - The Aboriginal Lands Trust (ALT) estate land transfer and management functions are now interwoven with government policy to co-operate wherever possible with Native Title Representative Bodies and the Western Australian Aboriginal Native Title Working Group (WAANTWG). In my maiden speech I said that WAANTWG does not currently have any authority or legal power to negotiate people’s rights. I asked a question of the Deputy Premier in Parliament two weeks ago on whether the Western Australian Aboriginal Native Title Working Group would be given legal power or authority to negotiate native title rights of Aboriginal people by the end of the year; and, if so, whether the staff of WAANTWG would be democratically elected by the individual claimant groups. Hon Tom Stephens said, “No, WAANTWG does not exist.” I have a copy of a statement made by the Premier the other day about the commitment to new and just relationships between the Government and Aboriginal people of Western Australia, which refers to the Western Australian native title working group. It is evident from the reference to it on page 1147 that it exists. What is WAANTWG? What is its function? Who will staff it? What is its total function with respect to the Western Australian Aboriginal group? I am trying to ascertain its role. The name “WAANTWG” seems to be thrown around, but indigenous people do not have a clue about it. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Can members keep answers succinct, because we have only another 10 minutes and a number of people want to ask questions. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: Succinct answers? The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Yes, succinct questions and succinct answers. Mr CARLETON: I understand that the Western Australian Aboriginal Native Title Working Group is a federation of the native title representative bodies in Western Australia. They are funded by the Commonwealth through the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission. I think WAANTWG is sponsored by ATSIC. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: Reference is made in the final dot point on page 1147 to Aboriginal community patrols. I would be grateful for further information about the work of these patrols. Mr CURRY: Aboriginal street patrols are organisations run by Aboriginal communities. Their funding is administered by the Department of Indigenous Affairs. The primary focus and responsibility of the patrols is to provide a community-based response, primarily to interface issues between the community and the police. They take on some roles in relation to truancy. They have a vehicle, and a group of trained people ranging in number from 10 to 20 people depending on the area. They patrol when there is likely to be difficulty for indigenous people, primarily on the streets and in public areas. They provide an excellent service in assisting disorderly or drunk people or people in difficulty to return home, to be taken to a safe place or to be taken to a sobering up shelter, hence avoiding contact with the police. The additional money in the budget this year is for extra funding for the Kalgoorlie patrol, and for an initiative in Geraldton to determine whether a substantial increase in funding will assist the patrols to operate better. In the main, patrols are allocated approximately $50 000 each, which, in our view and it is recognised generally, is a low amount on which to run each patrol program. They also get funding from the Commonwealth through work-for-the-dole money. The intention is to properly evaluate whether an increase in funding can institute a better result for patrols, and as a result support a case to government to increase funding for patrols generally. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I am interested in the response from the Aboriginal communities to the work of the patrols and how well received they are. Mr CURRY: The response from the communities generally is good. They value the patrols as a service. The patrol is seen as the community’s service rather than one that the department directs or manages - the local community owns it. As I suppose occurs with all sorts of community based organisations, difficulties arise in management, direction and [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E717 focus from time to time. However, in the main the patrols are well regarded. A formal evaluation of patrols has not yet been undertaken. This year the department intends to commence an evaluation to determine whether we can get a better handle on how the patrols are viewed by not only the local Aboriginal community, but also the community generally and government agencies. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I refer to the capital contribution table on page 1155 of volume 3 of the Budget Statements. The working capital requirement for leave liability in the 2000-01 budget adjusted for accrual accounting is $314 000. The estimated expenditure in the same financial year is $14 000. However, no provision has been made for leave liability in this or ensuing budgets. What was the actual leave liability for the agency in 2000-01? What will be the leave liability for 2001-02? [9.50 am] Mr STYLIANOU: The $314 000 in the 2000-01 budget column represents the estimated movement in liability between 1999-2000 and 2000-01. That is a result of the introduction of accrual appropriations. In other words, if there were a movement of that amount, it would come from the accrual appropriation. A year later, when the estimated figures were computed, the figure was only $14 000. That is the movement between the 1999-2000 actual liability figure and the 2000-01 figure. There are no figures because we expect leave liability to stabilise in the out years. At this stage, it is not anticipated that we will need to draw on our accrual appropriation figure. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: What is meant by “stabilise”? Mr STYLIANOU: The department does not have a large leave liability for any staff member. Most staff members take a regular four-week break and have no more than one outstanding long-service leave entitlement. Hon SUE ELLERY: The first dot point on page 1154 of the budget documents refers to the national policy on reconciliation and how the State manages that policy. What state initiatives have been implemented in this area? Mr CURRY: Reconciliation remains one of the most important agenda items for the indigenous community. It ranks alongside land as a primary business agenda item. My advice from the broader Aboriginal community is that this is not about reconciliation for Aboriginal people; it is about reconciling the entire community. This financial year the Government has allocated $105 000 for projects to assist reconciliation at the local level. The maximum grant will be $5 000. This process is designed to assist local initiatives, given that at the state level in the past year there has been a recognition of and goodwill towards reconciliation in the Western Australian community. We are trying to take the next step of offering grants to assist local communities to come together and progress reconciliation at that level. Hon JOHN FISCHER: I refer to page 1147 and the department’s stated mission, which is to enable Aboriginal people to determine their own lives. My question relates to the establishment of groups such as the Yamatji Land and Sea Council, which covers the mid west, the Gascoyne and the Pilbara, and the subsequent abandonment of groups such as the Pilbara Aboriginal Land Council. I have been approached by many constituents in that area who are very much opposed to this situation. How much involvement was afforded local communities in the formation of these regional groups? If true representation was offered, why is there so much dissension in these Aboriginal communities about the removal of local self-determining groups? That appears contrary to the department’s stated mission. Mr CARLETON: Native title representative bodies and boundaries are determined by the Commonwealth Government, not the State Government. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Members who have further questions that they would like put on notice should submit them in writing to the clerks within the next 30 minutes. If additional information is required, it should be provided to members. I thank the parliamentary secretary and his advisers for attending today and their contributions. [10.00 am] Division 65: Sport And Recreation, $32 330 000 - Hon Kate Doust, Deputy Chairman. Hon G.T. Giffard, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Sport and Recreation. Mr R. Alexander, Director General. Mr P. Duffy, Director, Business Management. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The committee values that assistance. Members are asked to sit towards the front of the Chamber where practicable so that witnesses will not have to turn their head when answering questions. It will greatly assist Hansard if when referring to the Budget Statements volumes

E718 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I seek your cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to your advisers. May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. At this time, I ask the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form? WITNESSES: Yes. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Do all the witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: We have only half an hour to deal with this division. I ask members to ask succinct questions. Hon N.F. MOORE: I refer to the major initiatives for 2001-02 at page 1127 of the Budget Statements. There is reference to the state facilities plan. Has the plan been finalised? Will it list the required facilities in a priority ranking? What funds have been allocated in this budget - including the out years - for capital expenditure on sporting facilities, excluding the community sporting and recreation facilities fund? Mr ALEXANDER: The state facilities plan has gone through a full consultation process and it will be presented to the Minister for Sport and Recreation tomorrow. It will then go to Cabinet before it is made public. The plan has two parts. It has a framework that details the needs analysis and what must be done to develop facilities. The plan has a number of category priorities for community sporting facilities. Hon N.F. MOORE: Are there any capital funds in the budget for this year and the out years for the development of sporting facilities other than the community sporting and recreation facilities fund? Mr ALEXANDER: Mr Duffy will correct me if I am wrong, but there is $500 000 for 2002-03 and $1.5 million for 2003-04, and $3 million for the south west sports centre. Hon N.F. MOORE: In the context of the state facilities plan, the budget for the next four years has amounts of $500 000 and $1.5 million. Mr ALEXANDER: That is correct. It is my understanding that the tourism budget has $4 million allocated for 2003-04 and $4 million for 2004-05. It has been earmarked for a new stadium. Discussions are under way to transfer the money to the Department of Sport and Recreation. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to the major achievements for 2000-01 at page 1127 of the Budget Statements. The department has completed and printed a major report into the physical activity levels of Western Australian adults. Why was the study undertaken? If you are at liberty to divulge them, what were some of the key recommendations of the report? What, if any, implementation strategies have evolved from that? There is also reference to the establishment of a physical activity task force to develop a statewide physical activity strategy. Is that one of the outcomes of the report or is it something different that links into it? Mr ALEXANDER: The report on the physical activity levels of Western Australian adults was completed earlier this year. It showed a number of interesting and somewhat alarming statistics. Approximately 42 per cent of Western Australian adults are overweight. It is a concern. The report contains a number of recommendations about increasing the physical activity levels of adults. The physical activity task force is not a direct result of the report but it is a complementary strategy. The report is listed to go before Cabinet later this month. Government agencies and the wider community should look at ways of developing strategies to increase the physical activity levels of Western Australia. As I said, the report is alarming. The lack of physical activity affects the health of Western Australians and has the potential to affect the health budget. That study revealed a range of concerns and the physical activity strategy attempts to rectify some of them. However, in many ways, it requires a cultural change, which is a long process. [10.10 am] Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Is there an easy way to increase physical activity and reduce weight without doing any exercise; for example, running or walking? Hon N.F. MOORE: Talking? Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Talking! That is the $6 million question. Everybody would like to be fitter and thinner but they do not want to go through the traditional means by which that outcome can be achieved. Did the report shed any light on any areas that might provide an alternative? [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E719

Mr ALEXANDER: Apart from cutting off an arm or a leg, no strategies were identified that would help people to become fitter without exercising. The Notre Dame University conducted supporting research, which was alarming and is worth commenting on. It compared 12-year-old girls and boys in 1974 with 12-year-old girls and boys in the year 2000. The study showed that a 12-year-old girl today is slightly taller but nearly seven kilograms heavier. The boys are slightly taller but just five kilograms heavier. The community is aware of that. However, that situation is incredibly difficult to change because the graph is nudging the other way. The Australian Bureau of Statistics released information in October 2000 that reported that Western Australia was the only State to show a one per cent increase in physical activity. The State that achieved the next best result showed a five per cent decline in physical activity. It is reasonable to assume that there is a potential for Western Australians to head in that direction. Hon BARRY HOUSE: I have discovered that if I was another foot taller, I would be the perfect dimension. The major achievements for 2000-01 on page 1127 makes three references to the development of trails programs. It refers to an allocation of $500 000 to trails development in Western Australia. The Mundaring Trails Usage Study and the State Trails Master Plans were completed. Over the past three years they were developed under the umbrella of Trails West, a unit within sport and recreation, and have been very successful. The machinery of government changes partly dismantled that by abolishing the Trails West advisory committee and the interagency coordinating panel. What was the rationale behind that partial dismantling? What is the future of Trails West in Western Australia? Mr ALEXANDER: About two weeks ago, I met with the previous chairman of the Trails West advisory committee, Mr David Forster, to discuss the best position to take about those issues. Those changes occurred because a lot of the work that was required of Trails West has been completed and it is now going through another phase. An advisory group will be established, with myself as the director general, as opposed to a group that reports directly to the minister. The machinery of government recommended that the number of people and groups that report directly to a minister be reduced. This measure will achieve that. Hon BARRY HOUSE: Some funding implications are attached to the State Trails Master Plan. Will those funds be provided? Where will they come from? Mr ALEXANDER: Currently, $500 000 a year comes from the Western Australian Lotteries Commission; that funding will continue for another two years. Part of those funds can be directed towards the master plan. We are considering the requirements of that. As the member is aware, there are plenty of opportunities. Great work has been completed, and the master plan will set out the next step. We will consider that funding requirement with the advisory group we are putting together. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I refer to page 1124 of the budget papers. Under the listing of major policy decisions reference is made to the talent scholarship identification program, which will receive $125 000 per annum. I would like more general information about that program, specifically about the program’s high performance strategic plan and the operations of the Western Australian Institute of Sport. Mr ALEXANDER: The talent identification scheme supports our young high achievers, particularly in regional Western Australia. The money will be spent on athlete and coach development programs that address some of the barriers that confront talented athletes, including getting to Perth for adequate training and good coaching. It attempts to take good coaches to regional Western Australia to impart some of their knowledge. Some of that funding will be provided by grants to state sporting associations, and other funds will be used to take coaches around Western Australia. Some young people will be identified through their local sporting associations in regional areas as well as through the school system. There will be intensive training camps, some athlete and coaching scholarships, travel to competitions and assistance and guidance in athlete career education programs. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: Would that naturally identify people for future involvement in the Western Australian Institute of Sport? Mr ALEXANDER: It is intended that some of the athletes involved in these programs will continue elite careers in athletics. I met yesterday with Steve Lawrence, the new head of the Western Australian Institute of Sport, to discuss refining the changes to ensure they meet the needs of WAIS. It is about not only meeting WAIS’s needs, but also identifying some of the good performers in country regions. We are not sure where they are or how good they will be. These measures will help them to develop in their home environment. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: They will be able to demonstrate their skills. Mr ALEXANDER: They will demonstrate their skills and then attract good coaching. Hon N.F. MOORE: There used to be an organisation called the Western Australian Sport and Recreation Council. Why was that disbanded, and why were the people on it not told earlier that it would be disbanded? Mr ALEXANDER: It was disbanded as part of the machinery of government exercise because of the number of different government bodies. One of the recommendations of the machinery of government report was that the council be disbanded. It also recommended that advice be sought from community members on particular issues when and if it was needed. On the Monday after the report was released, the Minister for Sport and Recreation circulated a note to council members advising them that the council would be abolished.

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Hon N.F. MOORE: How does the Minister for Sport and Recreation propose to obtain advice from the community about sport and recreation issues if there is no vehicle other than the one that was previously in place, bearing in mind the answer just provided that advice would be sought from the community on an as-needed basis? [10.20 am] Mr ALEXANDER: A number of mechanisms exist for the minister to obtain advice. The Western Australian Sports Federation is made up of representatives of the various state sporting organisations, and styles itself as the voice of sport. It makes representations to the Minister for Sport and Recreation and the department on specific issues when and as they arise. An example of that is the current difficulty with insurance. A working party is being put together to work through the consequences of the increase in insurance premiums in sport, which has the capacity to increase the cost of participation. The fallout from that will be potentially fewer people joining sporting associations. Hon LOUISE PRATT: On page 1129, the third dot point under major initiatives for 2001-02 refers to concluding the International Year of the Volunteer recognition and education program in 2001, and extending the core elements into 2002. What are those core elements? Mr ALEXANDER: Throughout the year, many different functions have been held to recognise volunteers in the sport and recreation industry. During the sport and recreation conference a couple of weeks ago, for instance, sports stars came along to act as waiters at a function for 150 volunteers from all different sports. A range of activities like that one have taken place, and certificates recognising the efforts of volunteers have been signed by the minister and others. These people put in countless years of service. Sometimes they are recognised and sometimes they are not. The sport and recreation industry could not operate without their input. That program will conclude at the end of this year, but the department hopes that volunteers will continue to be recognised after that time. The education program and the core elements of training volunteers will continue, as the need to gain, train and retain volunteers is fairly demanding. These days there are a lot more compliance requests, in areas like risk management, which make being a volunteer a little more onerous. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I refer to the fifth dot point under significant issues and trends, on page 1124 of the Budget Statements, which reads - Commonwealth Government - The Australian Sports Commission has indicated that their focus will be on the development of sport through the national sporting organisations. This will have an impact upon sport and recreation within Western Australia as the Commonwealth/State relations will need to be redefined. This decision will also impact on the funding to the State, as well as the efficiency and effectiveness of the Commonwealth funding arrangements in the future. I would like to know exactly what that impact is likely to be on funding for Western Australia, and also what the response has been from the Western Australian Government, to ensure that programs can continue and will not be in any way jeopardised by alterations to funding arrangements. Mr ALEXANDER: This has the potential to be quite a problem for sport and recreation in this State. The Commonwealth Government, in its last budget, allocated $542 million over the next four years for sport. Approximately $460 million of that goes to high-performance or elite sport, and the rest is meant to be for development. This works out at just over $20 million a year. The Commonwealth Government has determined that it will not direct this money to the States. The minister received a letter from the federal minister, Hon Jackie Kelly, to the effect that the federal Government did not wish to fund the States in the sports area, even though Western Australia has received $150 000 to help out with coaching and other areas. In the early 1990s, the Commonwealth Government was giving the State Government just over $750 000 a year for a number of sporting initiatives, such as women in sport, coaching, coach education and training volunteers. The Commonwealth Government has now decided that it wishes to put the money through national sporting organisations, which, it is believed, will deliver throughout the States. The basis for the funding is that the organisations are to increase membership numbers in sporting associations. Only seven sports are now receiving funds. Much of that money will remain on the east coast, because national sporting organisations must deliver increased numbers. Many of them are suggesting that those increased numbers are to be found in southern Queensland, and in the Sydney-Melbourne area. One of the department’s concerns is that, despite having 10 per cent of the population of Australia, Western Australia will not receive $54 million-worth of benefit from the federal Government’s allocation to sport. Some elite athletes will be able to attend the Australian Institute of Sport, and get some training, and some money will flow through to the Western Australian Institute of Sport, but not a lot. Western Australians are being short-changed. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I am particularly concerned about the impact on the development of non-elite sport areas. Mr ALEXANDER: That is where the biggest impact will be, because previously the money from the Commonwealth has been used for coach education in both metropolitan and regional areas, and for training state sporting association staff and volunteers. A lot less money is now available. The State has given some money to compensate for the loss, but not the entire amount. Hon BARRY HOUSE: On page 1127, there is a reference to a review of the joint provision and shared use of sporting and recreation facilities. I played a role in chairing the working party which produced that review. The first practical [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E721 example of facility sharing to come to my knowledge this year was a failure. It did not involve the Department of Sport and Recreation, but was between the Department of Local Government and the Department of Education, involving a primary school in Busselton. As the review was done under the auspices of the Department of Sport and Recreation as the lead agency, does the parliamentary secretary, or the officers, feel that there is a role for their department to play in enforcing the right outcome for the whole community? [10.30 am] Mr ALEXANDER: I admit that many people feel frustrated with that. The report involved the research of literature, because many reports have been done on the need to share facilities. Everyone agrees that needs to occur; in many ways, there is nothing worse than everyone agreeing and nothing happening. That is fairly evident in this area because people love their territories - they love to have their own area. Sharing arrangements sometimes fail. For example, a group might be allowed to use school facilities, but if it leaves the door open or the rubbish bin full it might be told that it could no longer use those facilities. The Department of Sport and Recreation is attempting to work with the Department for Planning and Infrastructure and the Department of Education. I cannot say that it has been highly successful; it has been a hard slog. As far as possible, there needs to be some mandatory provision to ensure that those departments come together. For example, a part of the community could have ownership of and the right to use school facilities after five o’clock, rather than at the behest of the school principal. In my view, there must be some ownership by different groups. Groups who have ownership of facilities love to lock them up because the management of them is often too much trouble. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I refer to the major initiatives for 2001-02 listed on page 1127 of the Budget Statements. My question is on the conduct of drug testing in sporting organisations and relates to the Bill that recently passed through Parliament. Have any funds been specifically identified to support sporting organisations that must carry out the testing of elite athletes who are aiming to compete at the state level? I understand that the legislation covers all athletes in state squads. Some of those squads are large and drug testing will be a substantial cost to those organisations. Is there funding for that? Mr ALEXANDER: There is potential to provide funding for drug testing from the $8.4 million provided by the Lotteries Commission. We will have to be careful about that because, as the member rightly pointed out, drug testing is expensive. The legislation is in place and there is a capacity to test athletes for drug taking. My understanding is that it will be done on a random basis; it will hopefully not involve every member of a large squad. Hon B.M. SCOTT: That is what the legislation stipulates. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: It does not stipulate that. Mr ALEXANDER: Finances would be stretched if we were required to test every member of every squad. My understanding is that the legislation did not stipulate that every squad member is to be tested. There is the potential to do that if required, but the way drug testing will be carried out will depend on the management of the sport and the requirements of drug agencies. The normal procedure of the Australian Sports Drug Agency is to carry out random testing. For example, if members of Perth Glory were to be tested, two of the team would be selected. A tester would walk off the field with those players and stay with them throughout the testing process. That is generally how it works. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I thank the parliamentary secretary and his advisers for attending today’s Estimates Committee and for their responses. Sitting suspended from 10.34 to 10.48 am Division 60: Education, $2 014 622 000 - Hon Kate Doust, Deputy Chairman. Hon G.T. Giffard, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education. Mr R. Mance, Acting Director General. Mr P. McCaffrey, Acting Executive Director, Corporate Services. Mr. B. Doyle, Acting Director, Information and Communication Technologies. Ms M. Banks, Acting Executive Director, Teaching and Learning. Mr K. O’Keefe, Acting Executive Director, Teaching and Learning. Ms V. Burns, Acting District Director, Fremantle, Peel and Canning Districts, Fremantle District Office. Mr J. Ryan, Acting Director, People and Organisational Development. Mr P. Hamilton, Acting Director, School and System Performance. Mr S. Harvey, Acting Director, Facilities and Information Services. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance.

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Members are asked to sit towards the front of the Chamber where practicable so that witnesses will not have to turn their head when answering questions. It will greatly assist Hansard if when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I ask for your cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to your advisers. May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The Committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. At this time, I ask each of the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form. WITNESSES: Yes. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Do all the witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have received questions on notice from Hon Derrick Tomlinson and Hon Robin Chapple. I now table those questions and answers. Hon B.M. SCOTT: My first question relates to the restructuring of the Education Department of Western Australia. What was the restructuring cost, or what is the predicted cost, in redundancies and salaried adjustments? Second, what savings have been made, if any, by dismantling the early childhood directorate? [10.50 am] Mr MANCE: The ministerial task force report proposes a new structure for the organisation, which is at a number of levels. We have provided some figures on the cost to date of people who have taken redundancy packages. Some savings will be achieved through the rationalisation of some positions and functions. I do not have those details with me but, with the parliamentary secretary’s agreement, we will take it on notice and provide the full costs and projected savings. The early childhood directorate has not been abolished. The task force is considering recognising the phases of schooling and establishing teams responsible for each phase. I am sure that early childhood will continue to be a major phase, and recognised by the organisation. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Will the parliamentary secretary specify the number and cost of the redundancies? Mr Mance said the early childhood directorate will not be abolished; I use the term “dismantled”. I understand it will no longer have a role. However, I focus on the number of officers who have taken redundancies. What has that cost? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: Does that question relate to early childhood education or education generally? Hon B.M. SCOTT: The question is about the restructure cost. I want a specific answer about the number of officers who took the redundancy packages and what that cost. Mr McCAFFREY: The redundancies that were paid out under the machinery of government changes totalled $363 000 in cash savings. I am aware that other figures have been provided by the Department of the Premier and Cabinet. They are whole-of-government figures that incorporate superannuation benefits and other associated costs. Two or three other payments were made in 2001-02 but, unfortunately, I do not have those figures with me. I need a chance to put them together. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Can I put that question on notice, and include the number of officers who took redundancies? The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Yes. Hon JON FORD: I refer to the major initiatives for 2001-02 listed on page 1061, one of which is the rollout of telecommunications networking with increased bandwidth following the withdrawal of the Royal Flying Doctor Service high-frequency radio service. What provision is being made for the School of the Air following the withdrawal of that service, and how will isolated students continue to have access to education services? Mr MANCE: The School of the Air uses the Royal Flying Doctor Service radio service, which is being wound down. We are in the process of negotiating a telecommunications contract that will provide significant enhanced bandwidth for both country and urban areas and replace the School of the Air service with a range of other mediums. We are working with the School of Isolated and Distance Education to develop online delivery and support through other mechanisms. The telecommunications contract is worth $120 million over four years, and the rollout will take approximately 18 months. Bevan Doyle will expand on the services to isolated children. Mr DOYLE: As part of that telecommunications tendering process, we are negotiating with two preferred suppliers, Optus Ltd and Telstra, and will soon trial some satellite solutions in a School of the Air situation. The solution will [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E723 significantly enhance the telecommunications facilities available to those students. Once the tenderer has been chosen, we will move from an HF radio environment to a satellite solution, which will involve Internet access - initially two hours a day, and eventually scaled up - and services such as video streaming, so that teachers and students in remote locations can have visual contact. It will significantly improve the outcomes. As I said, we are about to trial some of the solutions, which we will provide subject to the results. [11.00 am] Hon ROBYN McSWEENEY: I refer to the fourth dot point at the bottom of page 1060 under major initiatives for 2001-02, which refers to a social-emotional developmental continuum. I refer also to the numeracy and literacy statistics on pages 1064 and 1065. Females are scoring better than males across all measurements, which is obvious to me. Given the generally accepted fact that males are under-achieving, what strategies are being developed to address the problems in boys’ education? Ms BANKS: No particular funding has been set aside to address boys’ education. However, significant research is taking place at school and district level together with close monitoring of boys’ performance and recognition of the need to address the gender differences. Significant professional development is provided to administrators and teachers through seminars. Officers such as Ian Lillico, through professional development and Churchill Fellowship research have developed expertise to support others in the system. I should have written down the amount set aside for the social-emotional continuum. Mr MANCE: Members may be interested to know that each State has been assigned a major task force. Western Australia has been successful in gaining a task force on student learning and student services. The gender equity issues are part of its terms of reference. The task force will address best practice and it will map the situation in other States to incorporate material into our strategies. It is a significant task force for which the study of gender equity, boys, bullying, participation and retention is a major part of its role. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: Ms Banks was unable to find the figure on the social-emotional continuum, so we will provide the amount on notice. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to the Economic And Fiscal Outlook for 2001-02 on page 112 in relation to election commitments. I note that $10 million has been allocated over the forward estimates period of which $2.5 million has been allocated in this budget for behaviour management and discipline. Is that $10 million specifically for years 8 and 9? I understand a total of $28 million has been allocated in the budget to address behavioural problems in schools. How is this money being practically applied at the school level? Ms BANKS: The $7 million is being split up as follows: $3 million to be spent on the reduction of class sizes in years 8 and 9 in selected schools, $2.5 million on specific high schools with behaviour and discipline issues, $1 million on behaviour management training for teachers from all schools and, with some flexibility, $500 000 on supporting students who are especially at risk. When funding is spent on reduced class sizes it must be used to employ additional teachers for years 8 and 9. The use of the remaining funds allocated to schools is within the school’s discretion. That will be done in the context of whole- school planning. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Is there a cooperative approach between schools within districts to get the best value from the money through sharing ideas and strategies and working cooperatively together? Ms BANKS: A number of schools are collaborating such as Girrawheen, Mirrabooka and Balga Senior High Schools, on the new north project and sharing resources and facilities. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Have targets been set or are they in the process of being set at a district or school level so that the program outputs can be better measured? Ms BANKS: We have compiled a reference group comprising principals from the schools and other key stakeholders to design careful evaluations of the program’s effectiveness and to establish the criteria by which the effectiveness will be measured. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I refer to the latest monitoring standards in education data under “Supplementary information on Quality and Effectiveness” on page 1065. Although the data on literacy is impressive, it is statewide data and not consistently as high across all education districts, certainly not among the Aboriginal population. In fact in some parts of the State, Aboriginal literacy is appallingly low. Given the inconsistency of achievement of those very important targets for literacy, what strategies is the department pursuing, particularly in the allocation of resources for improving literacy in the low achieving districts? Mr HAMILTON: There is a significant gap in performance between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal students. A great deal of variation in performance also exists between districts. It has been a cause of concern and a number of strategies are in place. The gap in performance has closed a little from the previous year and we want it to continue to close. The performance information is on the table for us to address, but it requires further strategies.

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[11.10 am] Mr O’KEEFE: A number of strategies are in place. As Mr Hamilton identified, considerable success has been achieved in those areas. The department must acknowledge that a huge gap in learning achievement must be filled between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal students in certain districts. The major focus has been developing the Getting it Right strategy in addition to the existing programs. That strategy focuses specifically on developing literacy and numeracy in those targeted areas. The budget is $27.8 million over the next four years. District directors have identified 98 schools in which work needs to be done. The focus will be on developing specialist teachers to do this work. This strategy is in addition to a range of strategies that the department has been using over a number of years. At the start of the 2002 school year, we will have an extra 50 full-time equivalents in the system, with further FTEs to be rolled out over time; that is, another 40 each year from 2003 to 2005, with an extra 30 at district offices from 2003. We want to ensure that we use the accumulated wisdom we have gathered about literacy and numeracy strategies. The people occupying those positions will attend more than 20 days of professional development over seven workshops. This is a major initiative designed to deal with those issues in targeted schools and districts, and it is in addition to the strategies we have already been using. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I might be old-fashioned, but I thought every teacher was a literacy teacher. I accept the need for specialists in those 98 schools. Does that mean that the literacy specialists will be appointed over and above the schools formula entitlement? Mr O’KEEFE: These will be additional positions in the system. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Will they be additional to the school formula entitlement? Mr O’KEEFE: Yes. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I can look forward to the Middle Swan area getting two next year. Mr O’KEEFE: I did not say that. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I refer to page 1061 and the major initiatives for 2001-02. Mention is made of travelling advocates who will promote teaching as a career for secondary school students and graduates in rural and remote areas. What does that entail? Mr RYAN: The department has appointed two travelling advocates. Their main role is to visit schools and communities to encourage people to consider teaching as a profession. A significant amount of research indicates that students do not see teaching as a worthwhile profession. A number of variables for that have been identified. These two people will not only visit sites but also skill our own teachers in advocating teaching as a worthwhile profession. The 2000-01 budget is $38 302 and the 2001-02 budget is $170 000. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: Is it too early to garner feedback from the advocates about some of the factors that may be discouraging students from considering teaching as a profession? Mr RYAN: We are completing a research report that has identified a number of variables. It will be released in the next two or three months. It is interesting to see some of the initial variables. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I look forward to that. Hon N.F. MOORE: My question relates to the restructuring of the department. Did Mr Mance discuss the appointment of the acting deputy director general with the minister or any member of the minister’s staff before the appointment was made? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: How does that relate to the budget? Hon N.F. MOORE: It relates to the restructuring of the Department of Education, which is a large part of this budget. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Can the member provide a page number? Hon N.F. MOORE: There is no reference to it on a particular page. The question relates to the restructuring of the department. If they do not wish to answer the question, that is fine. If they do, I will be interested to hear what they have to say. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It does not appear to link directly to the budget under discussion. Hon N.F. MOORE: Are you ruling it out of order? The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Yes. Hon N.F. MOORE: That is interesting. Hon SUE ELLERY: I refer to page 1061 and initiatives relating to Aboriginal students. An announcement was made yesterday about an agreement reached with the Ngaanyatjarra Land Council. How does that link in with the initiatives mentioned in the budget papers? [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E725

Mr MANCE: The department has been aware for some time that its performance in that area has not been very successful, particularly with regard to involvement, retention, literacy and numeracy. We have tried to make it an area of special focus and to take a more holistic approach to addressing the needs of Aborigines. Additional resources will be allocated to the lands. That strategy will involve the appointment of directors; that is, level 8 officers, who are a level below the district directors. The two officers appointed will work closely with the community to improve the way services are delivered and to address the concerns expressed to us about the failings in the system. The next phase will be working with other government agencies to ensure a joint and seamless provision of government services to the lands. We will have further discussions with the Department for Community Development and the Department of Training to ensure the implementation of appropriate programs and resources and that we work together. Mr O’KEEFE: The Ngaanyatjarra people are very pleased with this as an opportunity to work in partnership. One of the major strategies is to have the department work with local communities to develop programs of specific interest; for example, more culturally appropriate curricula. This is an opportunity to encourage professional development for teachers so that the expertise they bring to the area remains there. In the past, we have had difficulties with teachers gaining experience in the lands and then moving on. The appointment of the two people Mr Mance referred to will allow us to develop a repository of information that will remain permanently in the lands. In addition, the communities want their children instructed in their mother tongue. A major part of the development of programs will be to give people that opportunity other than in early childhood. The dilemma for many of the teachers in these areas is that they speak English, but it is not spoken outside the school. We want to ensure a decent intermingling between the knowledge of teaching in English and teaching it as a second language. We are keen to improve retention rates of Aboriginal students in those lands. The long-term vision of the community and the Department of Education is that the communities will produce students who will become teachers and remain in their communities as teachers. In addition to the interagency opportunities referred to by Mr Mance, the agreement encapsulates many of the strategies that we are trying to develop in greater detail for a range of Aboriginal communities. We see this as potentially the first of many agreements. There will be further opportunities for local communities that want to take on this initiative to work with the Department of Education. [11.20 am] Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: I have a question that relates to output 2 - secondary education. For many years a chaplaincy program has existed in a number of schools. It is supported by the Churches Commission on Education and other bodies such as the State Government. The Department of Education has provided funding in support of the chaplaincy program. What was the level of support to the chaplaincy program in last year’s budget and what is this year’s level of funding? Mr MANCE: It is a very worthwhile program that works very well in schools. The Department of Education is committed to providing resources for the program. The current agreement between the Minister for Education and the Churches Commission on Education commits the department to provide $200 000 for 2001-02. Over the past three years, the department has contributed $450 000 to the program. In addition, the Office of Youth Affairs committed $50 000 for each of the past three years. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: In recent years there has been a very worthwhile change to allow students with disabilities to attend mainstream schools. Previously, many young people with disabilities were often institutionalised for much of their schooling. Many of them are now students in the mainstream education system. This is starting to show a greater need in the school environment for therapy and other services. What plans does the Government have for this year and future years to expand the availability of therapy services, therapists and other tangible facilities? Mr MANCE: It is a growing need and our policy is to include students in mainstream education, bearing in mind their best interests and capabilities. The department is reviewing student services to try to improve the delivery of programs and support mechanisms and to identify what the costs will be over the next four to 10 years. Therapy services is an area of increasing need. I have an appointment with the Disability Services Commission next week to discuss ways of improving service delivery across government. We are identifying future needs to ensure the Government of the day understands what are the implications for resources and what some of the delivery models should look like. Ms BANKS: The provision of therapy services is not the responsibility of the Department of Education except in the provision of language development centres. Additional funding of $200 000 is available for this year’s budget. As Mr Mance indicated, the department acknowledges the continuing requests of parents to include disabled children in mainstream programs. Through the current review of services for students with disabilities we are forming policy directions for ongoing support and facility resource arrangements. Hon JON FORD: I refer to the eighth dot point at page 1060 of the Budget Statements. One of the challenges any Government faces on Aboriginal education, particularly in my electorate, is the way students move with their families through the electorate. The initiative listed attempts to deal with that through tracking itinerant students. May I have more detail of how that will be achieved?

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Mr O’KEEFE: It is a significant issue for the Department of Education in dealing with the education of Aboriginal students. Aboriginal families often have natural processes of transiency that create difficulties for the department. There has been considerable discussion for some time about a student tracking system. It was initiated through the Department of Education and the Aboriginal Education and Training Council. People from across several sectors have been working to develop a tracking system. It has been trialled in two districts and the intention is to expand it. Management groups across each sector of schooling will expand the program. The trials were conducted in the goldfields and mid west. It will be expanded to other districts that have high levels of Aboriginal students. It has given the department a decent opportunity to find out where people are and to share information between schools. The government, non-government and Catholic sectors of education are optimistic that the system will allow us to know who is in the school system. It will reduce significantly the number of students whose whereabouts are unknown. It will allow us to make sure that students who have been identified by the department are subject to a coordinated program as they move from school to school. Hon BARRY HOUSE: I refer to the capital works program at page 1069. I am inquiring about the new South Busselton primary school. In the light of the recent review of the joint provision of sporting, recreation and education facilities - which was contributed to by the Departments of Local Government, Sport and Recreation, and Planning and Infrastructure - why has construction of the new South Busselton primary school commenced when the best outcome for the whole community will not be achieved due to the Shire of Busselton reneging on a commitment to jointly develop the oval, hard courts and other facilities? Mr HARVEY: We needed to proceed with the construction of the school in order to meet the demographic demand. The department regrets that the shire could not see its way clear to provide a joint share facility; nevertheless, the demand still exists and the need to provide the facility remains. The school should be ready in 2002. Hon BARRY HOUSE: Speaking of capital works, there is a new school only 50 kilometres up the road - the Eaton high school. The Labor Party’s pre-election pledge on the Eaton high school was to build it to cater for years 8 to 12. Why is the school being constructed as a middle school with facilities to cater for only years 8 to 10? [11.30 am] Mr HARVEY: The school is being planned to ultimately become a senior high school. In our overall site plan we have made an allowance for years 11 and 12. However, at this point there is no need to build those facilities because year 11 and 12 students will be adequately housed within the Australind Senior High School. When it is needed, we will provide a senior high school at the site. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Once again, I refer specifically to page 112 of the “Economic Fiscal Outlook”, which is budget paper No 3. On that page is a line item about funding for information technology in schools. I note that two of the more recent of the Auditor General’s reports deal specifically with the Department of Education’s learning technologies project, which was released in May, and the follow up report, “Do Numbers Count?” Both of those reports highlighted the apparent failure of the department to properly conduct evaluation and monitoring of new initiatives. Given that the $80 million spent by the former Government on the learning technologies project did not result in the expected learning outcomes for children, what steps are being taken so that the Education to the Community vision avoids a repeat of that costly mistake? Mr MANCE: The department was criticised for what was termed a “box drop”; that is, it provided schools with computers but did not provide the appropriate professional development, information technology support or networking to go with it. There is no doubt that the boxes are needed. Across the State, schools have made significant advances to meet the ratios required to give access to computers for students. A pilot program is being undertaken in Fremantle, which is a holistic view about how the different technologies work together. That program will get information from teachers about professional development needs and it will take their advice on how best to integrate technology into teaching and learning. As I mentioned before, the roadway must be put in place for the “e2c”, which will provide the required bandwidth and access. We will link that with the Fremantle pilot program and the announcement about the provision of laptops for teachers in the future. The telecommunications rollout will give teachers remote access to the school information system, databases and student information etc, through their laptops. The “e2c” is a holistic approach to all the elements, including content. We have contributed to a $68 million national program for the development of an on-line curriculum. Some of that will be done internally but it will also be part of the national approach. Other States may focus on science or the Chinese language and we will not duplicate that; however, we will be a part owner in that approach. Over the years, a major element of the “e2c” program involves IT support and professional development. Members might have heard some discussion about “thin client” technology. In the future, we will look to use thin client technology that is backed up by a file server or a larger computer. That will allow us to tackle other issues we have with boxes; that is, theft, vandalism and damage. These thin clients have an extra life. Both PCs and thin clients will be used. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Has a study been conducted on the opportunity cost that might have occurred as a result of the previous Government having not provided the appropriate support network to the learning technologies project? [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E727

Mr MANCE: No, not specifically for that program. However, we have gathered data to identify how many teachers we believe are in the system who provide technology support. From memory, some 200 full-time equivalents who are not in the classroom support technology. The opportunity cost or the real cost of delivering IT must include the cost of those 200 teachers. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Does the department know the amount of that cost? Mr MANCE: We will have that information, but I do not have it with me. That could be provided. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Is it possible to provide the amount of how much those 240 FTEs are worth? Mr MANCE: Yes. Hon B.M. SCOTT: On 13 September 2001, I asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education a question about the Government’s pledged support to reduce maximum class sizes to 24 children in years 1 to 3 by 2003. I was told that funds had been allocated for that purpose in the forward estimates. Will the parliamentary secretary specify those funds that are to be directed at reducing maximum class sizes in years 1 to 3? What will be the maximum class sizes for preprimary classes? Will the Government maintain the current maximum class size of 20 students for the kindergarten year? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: As I understand it, the second part of the member’s question sought some sort of government commitment or undertaking. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I want the first part of the question answered first because the member promised to provide it. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: Mr McCaffrey will be able to provide that information. However, as I understood it, the second part of the question did not specifically relate to a question about the budget. It sought a government commitment on something. Hon B.M. SCOTT: No, it did not. I said that the Government made a commitment to have a maximum class size of 24 students in years 1 to 3 and 20 students in kindergarten. Currently, there are 25 to 27 students in preprimary classes. What is the Government’s commitment to the classroom sizes for kindergarten and the years 1 to 3? Mr McCAFFREY: Funding has been provided in the forward estimates to reduce the class sizes to 24 students in years 1 to 3. That will be staged over the year 2003. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Will the minister specify those funds? Mr McCAFFREY: No, I cannot find that information at the moment. Mr RYAN: It is estimated that $2.3 million will be spent in 2002-03, and $3.2 million will be spent in 2003-04. Hon B.M. SCOTT: The Government announced a policy to make school fees in years 8 and 9 non-compulsory. The minister said that as a result of that measure there would be a shortfall in school funding. The predicted shortfall varies from $10 million to $15 million. How much money is in the current budget to compensate schools for loss of income from the non-payment of school fees? [11.40 am] Mr McCAFFREY: A commitment was given to provide a financial assistance package for schools as part of the new School Education Act. This year, we have tackled that issue from two directions, one of which included the financial hardship clause. We have reviewed the level of allowances being paid under the student assistance scheme. That has two components - a charges allowance and a clothing allowance. We will increase the charges allowance up to $215 across all years. From memory, it was $180 for years 8 to 10, $215 for year 11 and $160 for year 12. We will increase those levels of resources to assist schools to meet some of the fall off in charges. As members know, a guideline to apply for that allowance is that a parent must have a health care card. As another strategy the minister has requested that we develop an education assistance fund, and that modelling is being done at the moment. The exact level of funds to be provided for that model has yet to be determined, because we are waiting for some more accurate information on how the fees are being collected and what the impact is on a school-by- school basis. We are receiving support for that from the Secondary Principals’ Association and the Primary Principals’ Association. They expect that by March or April 2002 a better indication will be available of the difficulties being experienced by some schools. At that time it is proposed to work with the minister to have resources allocated to assist those schools. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I think the question has been slightly misunderstood. It related to a specific change to years 8 and 9. Nothing in the School Education Act 1999 covered that, so that assistance package does not relate to the statement by the minister that there would be a shortfall, and that funding would be made available in this budget to cover that shortfall, for schools that did not get the school fees. That does not relate to the School Education Act 1999. Mr McCAFFREY: I stand corrected. There had already been discussions about providing some support under the financial hardship provision of the new Act. Then, when the amendment was made by the current minister on the

E728 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] nature of the fees, we expanded that approach to try to assist those schools at a higher level. I am suggesting that the extent to which we need to assist schools is unknown at the moment, and certainly a range of assistance could be provided. We need that information before we can determine just how much support we need to give schools. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I was under the impression from the minister that that could have been addressed in this budget. Hon ADELE FARINA: I refer to the eleventh dot point under the capital works program on page 1069 of the Budget Statements. This point makes reference to $7.4 million being made available to continue the implementation of early childhood education for four-year-old children. How is this money to be expended? Mr HARVEY: Early childhood facilities are being provided at all primary schools to allow places for all four and five- year-olds. Programs have been run over a number of years, and they are now reaching completion. This $7.4 million is the last part of the funding for the provision of early childhood program facilities. Hon ALAN CADBY: I refer to page 1062, and the line item on laptops for teachers. In the laptop program there is no allocation in the 2001-02 budget period. Can I assume that no laptops will therefore be issued at the beginning of the 2002 academic year? Can I also assume that no specialist training will be given to teachers during that budget period? If I understand the policy of teachers incurring a low cost between $5 and $10, and that the tender price is under $2 500, is it likely that the laptops will be cheap, old technology computers that computer companies will gladly dump in Western Australia? Would the money not be better spent on improving the career structure of teachers, and making teaching a more rewarding career? Mr MANCE: There will be expenditure on this item in 2001-02, which was factored into the department’s internal funding. About $1.6 million will be spent in 2001-02 for the first roll-out of laptops, which will be aligned with a telecommunications roll-out. Mr Doyle will provide details on the standard of the equipment, but one question raised is whether the equipment is at the bottom end, being rubbishy equipment, or is the Rolls-Royce of information technology. The equipment being provided by the department is middle of the range, but it is a very good package, with the basic box and the bells and whistles that come with it. The costing also contains a component for product development and IT support. Mr Doyle can be more specific on what the computers will be able to do. Mr DOYLE: The specification of the equipment is not Rolls-Royce level, but a very sound and solid medium-range computer is being sought from the responses to the tender. It needs to be capable of running a complex suite of office software and other software packages that teachers will wish to use. Given our intention to link the computers with a telecommunications roll-out, it will need to operate remote access facilities, so it will need to be quite robust and of good standard. We have asked the companies responding to the tender to list a range of machines that fit these general descriptors. We will bench-test the machines offered by each of the respondents, and ensure that an optimal solution is arrived at, rather than a very high range, which would be unnecessary in most circumstances for a teacher. If a teacher needs a very high-powered notebook computer, and it is a personal decision, we are seeking tender responses to ensure that teachers can purchase a very high specification machine outright at the reduced price. Hon ALAN CADBY: Two questions I have asked have not been answered yet and I will reiterate them. Can I assume that no laptops will be issued at the beginning of the year 2002? Could the money not be better spent on career structuring? Mr MANCE: Laptops will be delivered at the start of the year, and in fact some will be delivered at the end of this year. The department is in the market now, doing evaluations. Career structures are a very important aspect of our profession, of course, but so also is technology. Teachers have identified the desire to have access to laptops. A lot of surveying has been done, and the department has followed very closely what has happened in Victoria. I spoke to many teacher in schools there, about how they were using the laptops. It is interesting that nowadays many students, particularly senior students, also bring their laptops to schools, so it is important that the education system be up to date with the skill set and the access to information. It is part of the whole suite of elements of education through computers. School information systems are being put into schools. These systems have different modules of curriculum management and student administration. It is important that teachers, whether they sit in the staffroom or at home, can access this sort of information, as well as do such things as lesson plans and preparation. It is our view these days that the computer is an essential tool for the profession. [11.50 am] Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Footnote (a) on page 1074 of the Budget Statements details the number of full-time equivalent employees in 2000-01 and 2001-02. I note that there has been an increase in FTEs from 24 886 in 2000-01 to 25 045 in 2001-02. First, can you explain that increase? Secondly, can Mr Mance explain the process by which Acting Director General Mr Ed Harken was appointed to his position? Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I would rule that question out of order. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: The question relates to the budget, as the member is well aware. Mr McCAFFREY: The FTE changes cover a range of areas. It might be easier if I break those down into chunks. The Government’s election initiatives, which were announced and funded in the budget, account for 177 of those FTEs. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E729

They cover a range of areas such as behaviour management, which relates to year 8 and 9 class sizes, and the literacy and numeracy program. They were the first tranche of teachers appointed during that year. Additional staffing resources have been provided to help students with disabilities, and teachers will be given additional professional development opportunities. On the other side, some adjustments must be taken into account. Changes are continuing through the cleaning reforms. The move from day labour to contract is reflected and its full-year impact is listed in the budget. Other internal adjustments pick up some additional long service leave requirements that are expected next year. That is in the order of 28 FTEs. The money provided to us as part of the enterprise bargaining agreement included additional resources for years 8 and 9 programs and would involve some 59 FTEs. They are the major areas that have contributed to the growth in FTE positions. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I ask Mr Mance to answer the second part of my question. Mr MANCE: It is important to put the appointment of Mr Harken within the context of the department at that time. Prior to 30 June, the department had six corporate executive members. Four of the six decided to take packages and another accepted an invitation to work across government in other roles. One person was left, which was me. I was the acting director general. At the same time, a report was released that said the organisation would be restructured. The restructure was to include the next tier of the organisation - the level 9 positions. The number of those positions has been reduced and many of those people took packages. Under the public sector standards, I am permitted in my role as acting director general to appoint people in acting positions for up to six months. That is what I did. I am also required, before the end of the six-month period, to clearly signal that a merit process is being and will be followed for temporary and substantive appointments. I do not intend to make any substantive appointments. That will be the prerogative of the incoming director general. I will pursue that process. If we had been told earlier that there was to be a significant turnover in staff, particularly among executive staff, it would have allowed us to put a process in place. I had to have people in place from 1 July. Mr Harken and Mr O’Keefe are closely associated with the task force review. Mr Harken received submissions through the task force and had many interviews. He was well placed at that time to advise me on where the task force intended and wanted to go, and the issues involved. Hon N.F. MOORE: Now that the issue has been raised, may I ask a question that relates to the same issue? Page 1062 of the Budget Statements refers to management initiated redundancy savings. Mr Mance, was the minister or his office involved in any appointments made as a result of those redundancy packages? Mr MANCE: No, he was not. Hon N.F. MOORE: Neither the minister nor his office was involved? Mr MANCE: That is correct. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: I refer to the students at educational risk program. I have not found any mention of that program in the budget papers. Will that program continue? Has the funding been maintained or improved, and, if so, by how much? Will you provide an update on that program? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: Margaret Banks will provide an answer to that question in a moment. Mr McCAFFREY: I will comment while Margaret is finding that figure. The students at educational risk program remains a key initiative of the department. The additional money mentioned earlier for behaviour management, literacy and numeracy programs, and Aboriginal education are aimed at better supporting the students at risk strategy. They are components of that strategy. Margaret will provide some more detail. Ms BANKS: The students at educational risk strategy specifically aims to support students who are at risk of not achieving the outcomes specified by the curriculum framework. An amount of $495 000 has been allocated to districts and that funding will continue. The expectation is that a range of strategies will be included under the umbrella of that funding, such as providing support for behaviour management and for implementing programs to satisfactorily identify, monitor and support students at risk. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: I have a supplementary question: is that amount of $495 000 broken down into districts or is that funding provided across the board? Ms BANKS: It is allocated to district funding. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: For each district? Ms BANKS: That amount is allocated to cover all districts. Mr McCAFFREY: Each district will receive an allocation of funds for the students at educational risk program, which will enable them to make decisions at the local level to deal with issues relevant to local schools. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: I want a point clarified. Will the figure you have provided be shared across all districts, or are allocations made for each district? Mr McCAFFREY: That funding goes across all districts. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: The whole State?

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Mr McCAFFREY: Yes, but it is in addition to a range of other strategies that are already provided to districts, such as through behaviour management, students at risk and intellectual disability programs. That helps provide a coordinated approach to difficulties faced in those schools, which are often interrelated. Hon B.M. SCOTT: This question may act as a supplementary to the previous question, so I might fit another question in as well. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Hon Barbara Scott might be able to do that, but we are running out of time and a number of members have questions to ask. Hon B.M. SCOTT: On 8 August 2001, I asked the parliamentary secretary a question about the funding of school meals, and of breakfasts in particular. The parliamentary secretary replied that these programs are run by school communities, with the assistance of the State, the Commonwealth, parents and citizens associations, and charitable organisations. What state funding is allocated in this budget for school meals, and in particular for breakfast programs? [12 noon] Mr McCAFFREY: That question referred to the State’s contribution, which forms part of the grants that are made to schools. All schools receive a base grant and a per capita grant, and it is the schools’ discretion to determine how to apply those funds. The intention is that the schools have complete flexibility to apply those funds to the areas that they see fit. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I refer to dot point one on page 1058 of the Budget Statements, and I note that kindergarten programs will increase from two to four half sessions a week in 2001. First, what is the predicted cost in 2002 for the full cohort of four-year-olds when they commence? Secondly, how many four-year-olds are educated at community kindergartens, and why were they excluded from the budget figures? Thirdly, will the common funding model be retained for these four-year-old children in community kindergartens, along with their teachers’ salaries, and has that common funding model been budgeted for? Mr McCAFFREY: I only have the figure for the 2002-03 financial year, but that is close to what the four year cost would be. We have estimated an additional cost of $21 571 000 to provide the extra time for the four-year-olds. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Does that include all costs, such as maintenance, capital works, communication and so on? Mr McCAFFREY: That is the salary cost. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I want to know the full cost of the kindergarten program. Mr McCAFFREY: I do not have those figures, but I will try to get them for the member. We do not always dissect the cost of a school site by years of education, and I would not want to mislead the member into thinking that I can provide that figure easily. It will be an extensive research project. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I appreciate that, and I am happy to put that question on notice. Ms BURNS: We will have to take the member’s second question on notice, but in response to the third question, the answer is yes. Last year a formula for the ongoing continuation of community kindergartens - it is no longer called the commonwealth funding model - was decided upon, and it is now a permanent item within the budget provision and it covers both teachers’ salaries and operating costs. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: The second dot point on page 1069 of the Budget Statements states that there will be an allocation of $8.4 million in the 2001- 02 financial year for the construction of the Kinross middle school, which will open in February 2002 with a year 6 and 7 intake of approximately 250 students. I would like a progress report on the building of that school. Mr HARVEY: The Kinross middle school is progressing well. It has been one of our most difficult projects because of the tight timeframe in which it is being built. However, it will open in time. A supplementary block will be completed later next year for 2003. It will open in 2002 for years 6, 7 and 8. The school is being built within a tight time schedule and we will continue to watch its progress carefully. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: That is very encouraging. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I refer to the first table on page 1062 of the Budget Statements and the line which states that the redirection to service delivery has been estimated at $6.9 million for the 2001-02 financial year and $7 million for the forward estimates over the next three years. First, are the sums in the forward estimates merely a one-off for 2001-02 that will be carried forward for each of those years, or will there be redirections of those amounts for each of those financial years? Secondly, what is meant by redirection? Thirdly, what has been directed, from where has it been directed and to where is it being directed? Finally, how will the redirection in each of those initiatives enhance the learning outcomes of children in government schools? Mr MANCE: In answer to the member’s first question, that figure is not an aggregating figure but a figure in its own right for each year. The redirection goes towards the items listed above that line, so it is a contribution to all of those other decisions. It has been redirected within the organisation as a contribution to those initiatives. Mr McCaffrey will [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E731 be able to provide examples to indicate from where that money has been taken. Each year we review all our budgets and cost centres, and redirect funding. Mr McCAFFREY: As Mr Mance pointed out, each year we are required to go through and reassess all our programs. As an agency it is expected that we will meet whatever changes we can. There is no question that the Department of Education was treated favourably in this budget round. We received a reduction or redirection of half a per cent on our operating costs. We have also been in an environment in which we have suffered badly from the enrolment benchmark adjustment that the federal Government imposed on all education systems across Australia. Fortunately for us, the federal Government shifted its ground during the year and doubled the buffer, which gave us extra resources. We used the benefit of not having to return approximately $2 million to the federal Government. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Is that part of that $6.9 million? Mr McCAFFREY: Yes it is. Digital copyright expenses is an item on the horizon, and we have been waiting for decisions from the federal sphere to determine how that will affect our schools. In anticipation of that, funds were set aside, but because $1 million of that will not be needed, it has been used as a redirection. I was a little overzealous in my provision for the indexation of the school grant. The estimate I used was higher than the actual figure, releasing about $1.5 million, which I was also able to reapply. We were worried how the removal of the wholesale sales tax would impact upon our purchasing program. I was particularly concerned about the maintenance budget, so I set aside some funds as a safety net in case those savings did not flow through. There has been a reduction in costs of $1 million, so I have used that money as well. As part of our normal process, we decided, as an executive, that we would remove $1.5 million from existing programs and redirect that money to the initiatives, which are listed on page 1062 of the Budget Statements as decisions made since the election. It is a contribution towards that total cost, and it came to about $17 million in additional funding that was needed for those programs. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: That is very impressive. [12.10 pm] Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I agree with Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich. Hon SUE ELLERY: I refer to the capital works program on page 1069. I cannot find reference to South Coogee Primary School, which has been closed. What is the progress on and time line for its replacement? Mr HARVEY: The South Coogee Primary School replacement is referred to in the capital works program as Stanford Gardens. That is the name of the residential area, but it may not be the name of the school we will provide. It will be ready for 2003, possibly earlier. It is the replacement for South Coogee Primary School, and we know the history of that. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: Does the department intend to continue the hearing and sight health check-up of four-year- olds? If so, will that take place in the kindergarten or preprimary year? Mr McCAFFREY: Perhaps that work is done by another agency. I am not sure. Hon B.M. SCOTT: It is partly funded by the Department of Education. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: I will put that on notice. In November last year the Standing Committee on Estimates and Financial Operations lodged report No 33 relating to the dental health of Aboriginal children in the Kimberley. The committee recommended that, as a public health measure, a dental hygiene program including toothbrushes, toothpaste and a regular session every day at school be implemented in schools in the area. Has the Minister for Health or the Department of Health followed that up with the Department of Education? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We will take that on notice. Hon JON FORD: The second-last dot point of the capital works program on page 1069 refers to the $4.5 million asbestos cement roof replacement program. How many schools still need this work? Mr HARVEY: I do not have with me a list of all the schools that have had this work. The last lot of work will be done this year, and I have a list of those schools. The number of schools is in the hundreds. This year’s program will mean the completion of the program to replace all the asbestos roofs as well as tile roofs requiring replacement. We can provide the list of all the schools for which work has been completed, and I have with me a list of the schools for which work will be undertaken this year. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We will provide that as supplementary information. We have a list for this year, and we will submit that at the conclusion of the hearing. Hon ALAN CADBY: My question refers to the sixth dot point under major initiatives for 2001-02 at page 1060. What funding has been allocated to schools for the implementation of the curriculum framework and outcomes and standard framework? What funding or extra staff has been allocated to Silver City and/or the regional offices for the delivery of relevant, quality support and promotion of this program through in-service courses for teachers?

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Mr O’KEEFE: The curriculum improvement program is an ongoing program that is in the third year of a five-year operation. Funding for the program includes $2.5 million for 2000-01. The assumption is that expenditure will remain at that level in 2001-02. A recent stocktake has given us a clear idea about the progress we are making, and identified the areas we need to target more specifically. Particular issues exist in the secondary schools, and we must do some work in that area. We are also focusing on the crucial role education leaders will play in the further implementation of the program in schools. We have designed a professional development program to inform principals of their increasing role as education leaders. That will be administered by the district directors. This program is designed for students of the new era, and will produce high-level problem solvers, decision makers and so on. It is a crucial part of our core business. The high level of funding that has been provided for the program’s implementation will continue, and better targeted strategies will be introduced. These will be aimed at the groups of teachers and schools that need particular support to progress the matter. Hon ALAN CADBY: Will that $2.5 million go to the schools, or is the funding for both the schools and regional offices? Mr McCAFFREY: It is a mixture. The large part of it - about $2.1 million - will go directly to schools for their programs. That will be supplemented by the balance, which will be allocated to each district according to the number of schools, students and teachers. Those funds will be given to the district offices to help facilitate professional development for teachers. It is a two-pronged approach, with the district office working with the schools to provide that curriculum support. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: Can the department provide, either now or on notice, some data on the spending in this budget on government schools compared with that in other States? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We can provide that on notice. We do not have that information here. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Supplementary to Hon Alan Cadby’s question, the sixth dot point at page 1060 states that all schools will produce better information. We have had some explanation about the funding for that. It is predicted that it will take a number of years to train and familiarise teachers with the curriculum framework and student outcome statements. What form of reporting will take place in the non-compulsory years of kindergarten and preprimary? The department has stated that written reports will be required and that additional training will be provided to enable early childhood teachers to cope with that new requirement. This must be done cautiously, because I would be concerned if written reports about three and four-year-olds resulted in a Japanese-style of pressure on parents. Early childhood teachers will need a large part of the $2.5 million to assist them in moving from verbal reporting to written reporting in the non-compulsory years of schooling. [12.20 pm] Ms BURNS: The non-compulsory or precompulsory years of schooling are integral to the education system. The funding for and provision of professional development for the precompulsory years is proportionately similar to the funding for the rest of the schooling. There is a great deal of emphasis on training teachers to have a play-based problem-solving approach by which children learn through experience. There is no intention within the system to change the traditional approach, which we know is effective for young children’s learning. In assisting teachers to move from verbal reporting to written reporting, the early childhood world has led schools in the development of portfolios. This is a much more explicit and helpful way for parents to understand how young children learn. If anything, the early childhood world has been leading our schools in new forms of much more comprehensive reporting. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I appreciate that very sound answer. I hope it is taken note of, because it is far more effective in non-compulsory years to use worldwide portfolio reporting and registering of children’s activities than to write reports to parents. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to page 112 of the Economic and Fiscal Output, budget paper No 3, in which the Government has indicated a commitment of $5 million over the forward estimate period and an allocation in this budget of $1.25 million to increase professional development opportunities for teachers and to increase the number of senior teachers. I am not trying to give Mr Ryan any leads here! It has also indicated a commitment to provide scholarships for teachers amounting to $2.108 million over the forward estimates period and an allocation of $173 000 for 2001-02. Why was such a significant increase allocated for the forward estimates period? Was there a deficiency under the previous Government? How will it be implemented at school level? Hon B.M. SCOTT: It is a specific purpose grant from the federal Government. Mr RYAN: The budget has allowed the department to enhance the career structure of teachers by creating level 3 teachers, but they are described as senior teachers in the budget papers. Western Australia leads Australia in developing career structures. It commenced in 1996 under a certified agreement, which was signed. Since 1998 the department has been developing competencies on which to base the assessment of level 3 teachers. This budget allows for that to [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E733 continue. We will appoint another 100 teachers over the next couple of years at least, to allow the level 3 teacher structure to continue. The level 3 teacher structure has had to meet a quota. Last year we appointed 98 teachers to level 3. We are now considering the ramifications of removing that quota. A significant amount has been set aside for professional development in a number of programs, such as the curriculum improvement program, the technology program, and literacy and numeracy programs to assist teachers with improvements in their competency and capabilities and to help improve outcomes for students. There has been a significant increase in the number of scholarships. The previous scholarships will continue. The department will continue to promote teaching as a profession. A number of different scholarships have been implemented, such as the Western Australian government teaching scholarship, which has been offered to high school leavers, and country practice scholarships. The department pays a living wage to fill places in country areas so that students get a taste of country living. A scholarship exists for people to take on a technology and enterprise training wage, more commonly known as design and technology or home economics scholarships. Internships are available for people in their final year of teaching. A couple of years ago the universities succeeded in making that a four-year course. After students have completed three and a half years and their final practical session, they can join the work force. A total of $360 000 has been diverted from the Department of Education Services to the Department of Education to fund the government teaching scholarships and the Aboriginal scholarships. The amount of $100 000 is for the teacher training country practicum scholarships in conjunction with a number of other agencies, such as the Chamber of Minerals and Energy of Western Australia. The technology enterprise training wage allocation is $207 000, and the final year higher education contribution scholarships to address areas of demand, such as design technology and mathematics, amount to $173 000. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I refer to the sixth dot point on page 1058 of the Budget Statements, which indicates that while teachers continue to be well respected at school there is a worldwide trend for teachers to leave the service after three or four years. Does the minister know how many teachers leave the profession each year for reasons other than retirement? What incentives are there to stay beyond the first three to four years and beyond eight years, when salary increases end for the majority who do not wish to go into administration? What long-term plans does the Government have to increase salary levels and the desirability of teaching as a career? Is the three per cent promised salary increase for teachers budgeted? Mr RYAN: The exit rate of teachers from the Department of Education is quite low. In previous years it was about 2.9 per cent. This year the rate is lower. If teachers are going to leave the profession they will more than likely leave in the first two or three years. [12.30 pm] Hon B.M. SCOTT: That is consistent with the worldwide trend. I am referring to the point at which there are no salary increases but they want to stay in the classroom. Mr RYAN: The member is correct in stating that, if they are going to leave, they usually do so during the first three years. The career structure I referred to is a leader in Australia and allows our teachers to stay in the classroom and be paid at the same rate as level 3 administrators. We are looking to expand and continue that program. We are also considering competencies. The three per cent is budgeted for the salary increases, and we are locked into those agreements over the next three years with the union. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I thank the parliamentary secretary and his advisers for attending today and for their contributions. If members have any outstanding questions, they should submit them in writing to the clerks within the next 30 minutes. Division 63: Education Services, $178 528 000 - Hon Kate Doust, Deputy Chairman. Hon G.T. Giffard, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education. Mr P. Albert, Acting Chief Executive Officer. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance. Members are asked to sit towards the front of the Chamber where practicable, so that the witness will not have to turn his head when answering questions. It will greatly assist Hansard if when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I seek your cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to your advisers.

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May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The Committee reminds the agency representative to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. Has the witness read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form? Mr ALBERT: Yes. The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Do you fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? Mr ALBERT: Yes. Hon N.F. MOORE: I refer to page 1100 of the Budget Statements, and the decisions made since the state election. Was the decision to cancel the Claremont education precinct development made on political or educational grounds? What are the reasons behind the decision? What is the future of the Claremont campus as a result of the Government’s decision? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: The Government has no plans to proceed with the Claremont education precinct proposal developed by the previous Government. However, the Government is mindful that Edith Cowan University has indicated that it would like to see some development of the area. Discussions have been held, but the precinct will not be developed as envisaged by the previous Government. I will take the first part of the question on notice. I need the guidance of the minister in that respect. Hon N.F. MOORE: Can Mr Albert not help?. Mr ALBERT: Within the first two weeks of the new Government’s coming to office, we were advised by State Treasury that that project would be cancelled. Hon N.F. MOORE: It is a great shame. It was a very good project and the Government has made a mistake. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to page 1103 and the major achievements for 2000-01. Drafting instructions are being developed for a Bill to establish a teacher registration body to be known as the Western Australian College of Teaching. What will it do and what is the likely outcome? Mr ALBERT: The Bill is being drafted in consultation with a range of stakeholders. It will deal with the registration of teachers. More than that, it will establish a body that will set standards for the teaching profession. That body will liaise closely with the providers of teacher education - the universities in particular - and specify the standards expected of teachers. It will also set standards for professional development. It will be more than just a body that registers teachers. It will be concerned with the profession of teaching. It will promote the profession within the community. [12.40 pm] Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Will it be applicable to both the government and non-government education sectors? Mr ALBERT: All people who teach in schools will be required to be registered with that body. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Yet another excellent initiative of the previous Government. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I do not think so. Hon B.M. SCOTT: The first dot point at page 1100 refers to the new school entry age from this year resulting in a reduced cohort of students entering kindergarten at some non-government schools. What budgetary allocations have been made to the non-government sector to help reverse the low enrolment levels caused by the new school entry age in 2001? Mr ALBERT: No specific allocation has been made. Assistance packages exist for schools that experience problems. Schools must apply for the assistance. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Page 1100 refers to special payments by the Government to assist schools with low enrolment levels. Mr ALBERT: On application. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I understood from the non-government sector that all schools would be compensated. Is it for all schools with low enrolments? Mr ALBERT: Provided they meet the criteria. If they experience a drop in enrolment levels, schools will be compensated. Evidence suggests there are not too many schools. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Is that just for next year? Mr ALBERT: It continues for four years. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E735

Hon JON FORD: I refer to the major initiatives for 2001-02 at page 1103. The second dot point refers to advice being provided on the expansion of opportunities for access to higher education for people living in the rural and remote parts of the State. Could I have more details? Mr ALBERT: The department has a rural education advisory council that is very active in identifying issues associated with providing opportunities for people living in rural and remote areas. It covers the full spectrum of education and training. It includes schools, training organisations and universities. It has developed a strategic plan for the provision of opportunities and strategies to deal with identified issues. It has a process for monitoring the implementation of the plan. The key providers are the universities, the Catholic Education Office, the Department of Education, the Department of Training and the Association of Independent Schools. They have signed the plan and agreed to implementation of the strategies. We do not know how effective the strategies will be, but one of the functions of the council is to monitor it and advise the agencies on the effectiveness of the strategies. The dot point refers to Geraldton. The Commonwealth Government has awarded 20 additional higher education places in Geraldton. We have coordinated a bid from the University of Western Australia, Edith Cowan University and Curtin University to the Commonwealth Government for the universities to collectively offer places in Geraldton. Hon ALAN CADBY: I refer to page 1103 of the Budget Statements. I do not believe that the proposed Western Australian college of teaching will do anything to improve the status of teaching; however, it will have other benefits. The fifth dot point refers to attracting additional commonwealth funds for higher education in Western Australia. Prior to the framing of the budget, did the Government have discussions with the tertiary institutions on using payroll tax as leverage for commonwealth funding? If so, why did the Government decide not to proceed with the proposition, after agreeing, when in opposition, that it was a good idea? Mr ALBERT: I do not know the answer because it was prior to the new Government coming into office. Hon ALAN CADBY: I would like my question put on notice. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: What is the decision behind the boarding away from home allowance listed at page 1100? Mr ALBERT: The administration of the boarding away from home allowance has been transferred to the Department of Education. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: What about the level of appropriation? Mr ALBERT: My understanding is that the level of appropriation is indexed. The figures shown account for previous provisions and an indexed amount. Hon BARRY HOUSE: Last year, in my role as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education, I was assisted by Mr Bruce Keane - who I believe now works for the Premier - and personnel from the Department of Sport and Recreation in developing a project in Port Hedland. It involved the joint development of programs and facilities between the Hedland Senior High School, TAFE, Pundulmurra Aboriginal College and the Town of Port Hedland. It was aimed at encouraging educational attendance and outcomes with young Aboriginal people through their interest and ability in sport. I can see no reference in the budget papers to the program. Has the initiative been ignored or dropped completely? What has happened to it? Mr ALBERT: The initiative is still under discussion. The Department of Sport and Recreation, the Department of Indigenous Affairs and the Department of Education met with my department to see what could be done to put the initiative in place. There is no outcome as yet. Hon BARRY HOUSE: I urge the Government to take up the initiative and follow it through. [12.50 pm] Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I refer to the list of major policy decisions on page 1100 which includes the low interest loans scheme interest subsidy. I am encouraged, because $1.2 million has been allocated for 2001-02, which will steadily increase to $3.5 million in the forward estimate for 2004-05. I understand there has been a backlog in loan applications. It would be logical for the increase in funding to be the result of a specific policy decision made by the Government to address that backlog. I would be grateful for confirmation or otherwise of that explanation for the increase. I would also like some advice about any additional reasons for the increase. Mr ALBERT: The previous Government’s policy for the low interest loans scheme has been endorsed by the current Government and is proceeding on the same basis. The increase is due to the expected increases in interest rates. We have an arrangement with Treasury, which advises our department of likely movements in interest rates. That money caters for some possibilities in interest rate movements. The scheme is at exactly the same level as it was previously. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: It seems to me that the increases are very large for an adjustment of interest rates. They move from $1.2 million to $1.7 million for the years 2001-03. Mr ALBERT: Currently, the actual level of outstanding loans is $184 million, and it is expected to rise to about $220 million during that time.

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Hon E.R.J. DERMER: Is that particular line item the adjustment? Mr ALBERT: Yes. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I would like advice about any differential trends in demand between the primary school and the senior school sector, and also between the Catholic and independent school sectors. Have any patterns emerged of changing demand? That question could perhaps be taken on notice. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We will take that question on notice. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Perhaps the Deputy Chairman will give me some advice. A couple of years ago, there was an unholy alliance between the Curriculum Council and the Department of Education Services, which was never consummated. Are we allowed to ask questions about the Curriculum Council, or only Department of Education Services? The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Education Services. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: In that case, I refer to the significant issues and trends on page 1099. The fourth dot point states - The strategic plans for the development of Aboriginal education and training and rural and remote education and training need to be monitored and revised and initiatives implemented to achieve planned outcomes. Has the Government given a commitment to continue the Aboriginal Education and Training Council and the Rural and Remote Education Advisory Council? Is there a similar commitment to the continued existence of the Early Childhood Education Council? What is the annual cost of the maintenance of each of those councils? Mr ALBERT: The three councils referred to are currently being reviewed, as required by the machinery of government proposals. The indications are that the review will recommend the continuation of those bodies, albeit that there may be some slight alteration in their terms of reference. That is pleasing because it means the review has indicated that those bodies have been adding value to education and training. The Aboriginal Education and Training Council receives a substantial amount of funding from the Commonwealth Government - in the order of $360 000. The Early Childhood Education Council and the Rural and Remote Education Advisory Council are funded by the Department of Education Services. The department does not provide them with much money; they are allocated approximately $20 000 each, plus some staff assistance. Sitting suspended from 12.55 to 2.00 pm Division 53: Transport, $20 756 000 - Hon George Cash, Chairman Hon Graham Giffard, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr G. Hodge, Acting Director General, Department of Transport. Mr W. Ielati, Acting Director, Financial Management, Department of Transport. Mr R. Farrell, Policy Officer, Office of the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure. Ms R. Barrow, Director, Director General Support, Department of Transport. Mr W. Halliday, Executive Director, Licensing, Department of Transport. Mr I. Cameron, Executive Director, Office of Road Safety, Department of Transport. Mr P. Crew, Senior Project Officer, Department of Transport. Mr R. Waldock, Acting Commissioner, Western Australian Government Railways. Mr J. Leaf, General Manager, Finance, Western Australian Government Railways. The CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance. It will greatly assist Hansard if, when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I ask for your cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to your advisers. May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E737

The Committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. At this time, I ask each of the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form. Do all the witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: I now ask the parliamentary secretary if he wishes to make any introductory statement; if not, I will move straight to questions. So that members can schedule questions, the Committee is dealing with divisions 53 and 52 between now and 3.30 pm. Division 53, which involves transport, but includes the Western Australian Government Railways, will be dealt with between 2.00 and 2.45 pm, and division 52, which is Main Roads, will be dealt with between 2.45 and 3.30 pm. Members will have to divide their questions accordingly. I have a question on notice from Hon Robin Chapple, which is tabled for the information of the Committee. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: I am happy to proceed straight to questions. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: I refer to the Transport Electronic Licensing Information System, dealt with on page 898. The planned 2001-02 expenditure for that project is $6.4 million. Can an explanation on the progress of that project be provided? Mr HALLIDAY: The $6.4 million is the amount of funding required to complete the initial scoping of the TRELIS project. It does not include the costs associated with the hardware, software and maintenance contracts associated with rolling out TRELIS. At this stage, the funding is to build TRELIS, not to roll out the system. That was planned to come out of recurrent expenditure in the form of leasing. At the moment, arrangements are being considered for the funding of the roll-out of TRELIS. [2.10 pm] Hon ALAN CADBY: I refer to pages 894 and 895 of the Budget Statements. The first dot point of the significant issues and trends on page 894 states - Behavioural and educational programs are increasingly used as major strategies to reduce road crashes. If we follow that through to output 1 on page 895, we see that the funding for that program has fallen by $7 million, from $65 million to $58 million. That is a 14 per cent decrease in real terms. Can you explain why that has occurred? Mr IELATI: The member is referring to the total cost. The output is structured to include both licensing and road safety programs in the total budget. The reduction does not relate to road safety per se, but to the changes that have occurred in licensing. For example, funding for the vehicle immobiliser scheme was reduced by $5 million because that scheme will finish at the end of October. The reduction relates to the licensing area. The output does not refer simply to road safety. Hon ALAN CADBY: I ask a supplementary question: is it possible to put this question on notice so that I can be provided with information on the amount of money spent on education programs in 2000-01 and 2001-02? Mr IELATI: Yes, we can provide that information. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: The second dot point of the major initiatives for 2001-02 on page 898 of the Budget Statements refers to the development of road safety directions for Aboriginal road users in Western Australia. The strategy aims to reduce the over-representation of Aboriginal people in road crashes. There will be broad community consultation on that discussion paper, which will form the basis of the strategy. Can the acting commissioner provide some information on the need for that development, its current progress, and the timeframe for its implementation? Mr CAMERON: The strategy is being developed because Aboriginal people are over-represented in road crash statistics for serious injuries and fatalities. A consultation document was launched in December last year. The period of consultation has been extended to the end of the year, which will enable consultation with local communities and key stakeholders to develop a strategy to support communities throughout Western Australia. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: The estimated cost of the southern transport corridor is listed on page 917 of the Budget Statements. How will funds be raised to pay for that construction and when will that money be expended during the next four years of the budget? Mr WALDOCK: The funds will be raised through borrowings. All capital works of the Western Australian Government Railways Commission are funded through borrowings. An amount of $53 million is available for the project, of which $4.5 million is allocated for 2001-02, $2 million for 2002-03, $17 million for 2003-04, $16.5 million for 2004-05 and $13 million for 2005-06. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: What expenditure is expected to occur during the out years on the new works listed on page 917 of the Budget Statements? I am particularly interested in the Perth urban rail development. Where is the $300 million contribution from the sale of AlintaGas expressed in the budget? I also refer to the electric multiple unit railcar

E738 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] modifications. Has that tender been let? If not, when will it be let, because that will have a direct ramification on the succeeding years? Can you provide the numbers for this budgetary period? Mr WALDOCK: The capital works statements are available. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: Would you table those? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We are happy to table those statements. The CHAIRMAN: Some outstanding questions will need to be taken on notice. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: Before that is done, I want to know where the $300 million from AlintaGas is listed in the budget. Mr WALDOCK: It is listed as the government equity contribution at the bottom of page 917 of the Budget Statements. The figures are $67 million, $94 million and $83 million. Those figures, together with $56 million allocated in this year’s budget, add up to $300 million, which is the equity injection. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: Will that show in those figures? Mr WALDOCK: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: Hon Murray Criddle can ask only one more question. A number of members wish to ask questions. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: Have you let the tender for the EMU railcar modifications? If not, when do you expect the tender for the railcars to be let? It is absolutely crucial that we know when that will occur, if the urban rail development is to go ahead. Mr WALDOCK: That contract should be let within the next two months. Hon J.A. SCOTT: My question is directed at Mr Waldock and is in two parts. Is the department kept informed of proposals to expand the rail freight system? If so, is the department aware of any planned expansion of the rail network and can you provide detail of any expansion? Is the department kept informed of the freight pricing by the private operator? If so, has there been any reduction in current freight rates? [2.20 pm] Mr WALDOCK: In relation to the question on the expansion of the freight network, the sale agreement was contingent upon a significant new investment of $400 million, of which a number of those projects were clearly specified. They were mainly for the upgrade and improvement of the network. In terms of expansion of the network, the only two projects for the foreseeable future are the construction of a siding at the Albany woodchip mill, which is detailed in the budget papers, and the possibility of a loop into the Fremantle Port. Those are the two major projects, and the southern rail corridor is the third. We cannot give information about pricing of the contract. It is confidential information between the operators and the customers, and we do not want to give it out. Hon J.A. SCOTT: Will the proposed expansion of the woodchip line be completely funded by the operator? Mr WALDOCK: At this stage, it will become part of the Government’s corridor for leasing. We will purchase that siding in three years, and will adjust the access fee to take into account the additional asset. Hon B.M. SCOTT: My question relates to page 917 of the Budget Statements, and the Perth urban rail development. Has the master plan for the rail corridor between Berrigan Drive and William Street been developed, and, if so, at what cost? Mr WALDOCK: That project relates to the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. The Western Australian Government Railways Commission will be the contract manager, but the strategic planning is being done through the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. I am the deputy chair of the steering committee, so I am more than happy to speak about it. The master plan for the new alignment between Thompson Lake and central Perth will be finished by February next year. Significant consultation will take place over the next six months to finalise the master plan. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Can the parliamentary secretary table the work to date? Mr WALDOCK: Can you repeat that? Hon B.M. SCOTT: I asked the parliamentary secretary to table that information, including the cost to date of the master plan. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We will table that. We do not have it here. The CHAIRMAN: It will not be tabled as such, but provided to the Committee in due course. Hon KEN TRAVERS: I ask my perennial estimates question: what is happening to the extension of the rail service to Clarkson? [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E739

Mr WALDOCK: The member will be pleased to learn that the contract has commenced. The earthworks are well under way, and the bridgeworks across Burns Beach Road will commence tomorrow. We are on target to open that railway station in September 2003. Hon B.K. DONALDSON: I return to road safety on page 896. The expected number of motor vehicles passing and failing motor vehicle examinations has remained consistent, with 86 000 passes and 34 000 fails. Does that figure include on-road examinations by the police, or is it strictly the number of cars that go over the pits? Mr HALLIDAY: It is relates purely to the vehicles that go over the pits. Hon B.K. DONALDSON: Does that mean that 37 per cent to 38 per cent of the vehicles that go over the pits fail? Mr HALLIDAY: That is correct. A failure can result from a bald tyre right through to major structural damage. Even a car with a flaw that some people would consider minor can fail on the basis that it is not roadworthy until, in the case of a bald tyre, it is repaired. Hon B.K. DONALDSON: Page 896 also provides the department’s output measures, including figures for drivers licence renewals. The table contains reasons for significant variation between the estimated figures for 2000-01 and 2001-02. The 2000-01 estimated figure for drivers licence renewals was 626 928, but the target in 2001-02 has dropped to 580 000. The table does not show the reason for the expectation that there will be 46 000 fewer drivers licence renewals. Are more people off the road because they have reached the maximum number of demerit points? What is the reason for the variation? It seems strange. Mr HALLIDAY: The member is probably aware that he can obtain a licence for one year or five years. The introduction of five-year licences resulted in cycles, and we are in the middle of a cycle at the moment. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Page 916 of the budget papers deals with the capital works program of the Western Australian Government Railways Commission. The first dot point refers to the preliminary stage of rail infrastructure for the Perth urban rail development project. Page 917 shows that that initiative will be allocated a total of $842 million, of which $67 million is contained in the 2001-02 budget. Can the acting commissioner provide an update of project? Mr WALDOCK: The $67 million comprises $3.3 million for the preparation of the master plan for the direct-route railway, to which I alluded earlier, and $21.8 million for the Currambine to Clarkson line, to which I have also alluded. That figure includes earthworks, the bridge, land purchase and railway works. Another $20.1 million will be expended for the construction of the Thornlie station and line to Perth; and $9.8 million will be spent on the design of railway works, bridgeworks and stations for the line between Perth and Mandurah. The remainder, $12 million, is for project management, land purchase and train control. Hon PETER FOSS: When the re-routing of the southern railway was announced, a few ideas instantly occurred to me. I would like the parliamentary secretary’s comments on their validity. First, running a railway along a river would halve the ready access of passengers, because nobody could come in from the river side. Second, it seems that it would be extremely hard to construct stations, and car parks, between the Narrows Bridge and Mount Henry Bridge because of the unavailability of land. We have already had problems with the freeway. Third, we devoted much time and created much disruption to construct bus lanes. What will happen to them? If the Government plans to take them over for the train line, what will happen to the buses? Fourth, how is it that although we were advised that it was impossible to put a railway through an area that narrow, this Government is able to do it? Fifth, can the Narrows Bridge support the rail, or will extra works be needed? Sixth, will putting the railway along the foreshore result in a situation similar to that in Geraldton, which we are removing at enormous expense? Will it not be extremely expensive to build the railway under William Street and, therefore, prohibitive? I believe costings on sinking the railway through Perth, which would be desirable, make that also prohibitive. [2.30 pm] Mr WALDOCK: The issue belongs with the Department for Planning and Infrastructure rather than with Western Australian Government Railways. However, I am happy to provide my understanding of those issues. Despite the water issue referred to by the member, I understand that patronage estimates are 160 000 boardings a day due to improved time lines. We have information on the travel time it will save people from Rockingham and Mandurah. That will be an enormous incentive for patronage to increase. The design of the bus way has always catered for rail. We understand the bus way will take rail. The logistics surrounding the future running of buses is being determined. All these issues are being determined. Hon PETER FOSS: I thought that was light rail with a narrow gauge. Mr WALDOCK: I will check that. Hon PETER FOSS: Has any suggestion been made that heavy rail with wide gauge will be built there? Mr WALDOCK: Our 50 kilogram per metre rail may be an issue. I am happy to provide more information on that.

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Hon PETER FOSS: Do you know what will happen to the buses? Mr WALDOCK: No. These issues will be fully considered in the light of the master plan. Although transfer points will exist in South Street, Leach Highway and Canning Bridge, we are considering developing a counter-flow bus lane. There may be an opportunity in the Canning and Melville precincts for commuters to take a bus trip without the need to transfer. Hon PETER FOSS: Can the Narrows Bridge support rail? Mr WALDOCK: We understand that the new bridge can support one rail lane. The other lane will be potentially on piles between the two bridges. Hon PETER FOSS: What is the estimated cost of building the rail under William Street? Mr WALDOCK: Our analysis to date on the William Street costing between the convention centre site and the central Perth railway station is that it will cost between $60 million and $80 million. Hon PETER FOSS: How does that figure compare with sinking the railway line in Perth? Mr WALDOCK: I understand that sinking the railway in Perth for an extended length would cost approximately $400 million to $500 million. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I refer to the first dot point on page 916 under “Other significant capital expenditure initiatives include:” where reference is made to the building better stations program. What type of improvements will be made to the stations involved in the program? Mr WALDOCK: The building better railway stations program is one of the Government’s high priorities. It will involve five stations over this period of government commencing with the Bassendean station, which was announced last week, and which is listed in capital works. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: It is long over due. Mr WALDOCK: Yes. That will be followed up under capital works amounting to $6 million for the Armadale station upgrade, $6 million for the Gosnells station upgrade in 2002-03, the Kelmscott station upgrade in 2003-04 and the Midland station interchange upgrade in 2004-05. Gosnells, Armadale and Bassendean stations will receive complete refurbishments, which will include tunnels and/or bridges, fully closed systems with turnstiles and possibly the SmartCard based ticketing system. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I was endeavouring to visualise the upgrades. I can read the program in the documents and Mr Waldock provided some of that information towards the end of his answer. I am familiar with the Subiaco station, which had a recent upgrade, but it does not include all the features he described. Will the upgrades of the other stations be of that nature? Mr WALDOCK: The Subiaco station upgrade was very expensive. The best example of an upgrade is the recently opened Maylands station, which is an excellent station that meets all disability standards. The Department of Planning and Infrastructure has suggested that it exemplifies its urban design and village precinct concepts in terms of access across and through the station. It has new toilets, Park ‘n’ Ride and kiss ‘n’ ride. The gap between the train and the platform is much narrower. We think it is a leading-edge station and has the best concepts we have seen in Australia. We hope to implement the other upgrades over the next four years. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I refer to the major initiatives for 2001-02 on page 898 in relation to the introduction of the 50 kilometre per hour speed limit in local streets. I am disappointed that the limit will be 50 not 40 kilometres per hour in line with the school zones. Has the department planned for the community to understand clearly the accepted hierarchy of roads so that they will know the hierarchical system before they approach it. As the new limit will be on local roads, is there a line in the budget that allocates funding to local government, which owns local roads, to put in the required signage? Will there be a requirement for national uniform entry statements in all major suburbs? Will that allocation in the budget, which has been a prohibitive factor for some time to local governments to undertake this measure on their own, be available to them? Will the 50 kilometre per hour speed limit be implemented in local streets in small country towns outside the metropolitan area? Mr CAMERON: The introduction of the 50 kilometre per hour speed limit on local roads in built-up areas will occur before the end of the year. The community education campaign will build on a series of earlier campaigns and target specific areas. It clearly will identify the commencement date for all road users. It will come with a simple message that unless a sign has been erected on local streets and built up areas, drivers can assume the speed limit is 50 kilometre per hour. At present drivers assume the speed limit is 60 kilometre per hour. We have learnt from experience in Victoria and other jurisdictions. Some 50 kilometre per hour signs will be displayed. The erection of signs will rest with the Department of Main Roads, but I am happy to make general comments on that. For some time, Main Roads has been zoning roads that will remain 60 kilometres an hour. That includes roads in metropolitan Perth and, as appropriate, in country towns. Main Roads WA has worked extensively, and continues to do so, with local [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E741 governments throughout the State. There is no cost to local government for signage, because Main Roads is responsible for installing it. There has been extensive consultation between Main Roads and local government authorities to determine which roads will retain the 60 kilometre an hour speed limit. All others will have the 50 kilometre an hour limit unless the signs indicate a higher limit. [2.40 pm] Hon B.M. SCOTT: I understand that other States have been required to erect national uniform entry statements. Will local government authorities in this State be required to erect such signage? Mr CAMERON: I am not aware of that national requirement. I will check that with Main Roads WA. We must seek exemption from the Australian road rules to convert our standard default limit on local streets and built-up areas from 60 kilometres an hour to 50 kilometres an hour. We are going through that process. I am not aware of any national requirement. Mr HODGE: The default model being adopted in Western Australia is the same as that implemented in Victoria. Victoria sought exemption from the Australian road rules, and it was granted. It will be by default. Hon B.M. SCOTT: Was that satisfactory? Mr HODGE: The early evaluations in Victoria are very positive. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to page 916 of the Budget Statements, which makes reference to the commencement of work on the rail infrastructure required for the Geraldton southern transport corridor. I note an allocation of $53 million for the total cost of that project and an allocation this year of $4.5 million. What is the nature of that project? What progress has been made? Obviously, we are at the early stage of development. What is happening on the ground, if anything? Will local contractors be employed? If so, to what extent, particularly at the latter stages of the project? Mr WALDOCK: That project is being jointly managed by Main Roads WA and the Western Australia Government Railways Commission. For the next year and a half they will be doing concept planning and design. We will not see any major works until 2003-04. The tender documents that will be developed over the next 18 months will address the Buy Local issues. That will be very important with those contracts. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Has there been any projection of the extent to which it is likely to create local employment? Has there been any assessment of an employment multiplier for Geraldton and the surrounding district? Mr WALDOCK: Not to my knowledge. Hon ALAN CADBY: I refer to page 899. The cost of services, salaries and allowances has fallen from $18.6 million to $18.1 million, which is very good. However, reference is also made to the number of full-time equivalents increasing from 455 to 460. Can the parliamentary secretary explain this paradox of an increase in staff numbers, but a decrease in salaries? Mr IELATI: I will take the question on notice. The CHAIRMAN: That question will be taken on notice. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to the capital works programs listed on page 916. The new works include electric multiple unit railcar modifications, which are aimed at increasing passenger capacity and comfort. A significant allocation of $20 million has been made for the total project, and $9.09 million has been allocated in this year’s budget. What is the aim of the project? When will it be completed and what are the implications of completion? Mr WALDOCK: This project had its genesis in the lack of EMU rolling stock. The first new railcars will be delivered in late 2003 or early 2004. We must manage the system as best we can over the intervening period. We are moving into longitudinal seating for up to a third of the fleet. That means placing the seats in a side-by-side and two-by-two configuration to accommodate more passengers during peak periods. It is a major strategy designed to accommodate more passengers. We know we have latent demand, particularly on the northern line, and we believe this is the best way forward. It is a commonplace practice nationally and internationally. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: That $20 million allocation is interesting. We need about 100 new railcars to meet capacity as we develop the entire urban rail network. Where is that contract? If we do not have new railcars, there is no point in building a railway line to the north. I understand what Mr Waldock has said, but railcars will have to be taken out of the system for maintenance. Mr WALDOCK: We are very close to finalising the rolling stock situation. There will be 93 new railcars and 31 railcar sets. That will be a major fillip to the system. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: The question has not been answered. At what stage is the contract? Mr WALDOCK: We will advertise the tender for the rolling stock next Saturday week. Interested parties will have 14 weeks during which to respond. We hope to make a decision shortly thereafter.

E742 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer again to capital works and, in particular, the purchase of the new railcars for the Prospector and the AvonLink. When are we likely to see them and what difference will they make? [2.50 pm] Mr WALDOCK: Without the fear of being seen as the new marketing manager, I must say that the new railcar for the Prospector is extremely exciting. The mock-ups arrived in the State last week. They will be shown at Kalgoorlie, Northam and the Royal Show next year. The mock-ups have all the best modern European luxuries. They have multiple television sets, computer facilities, satellite telephones and a buffet car. It will be an exciting, new investment for country people, particularly those in Northam, Kalgoorlie and in between. We hope to have the first services available in early 2004. The CHAIRMAN: Time has expired for division 53. Members who have questions to be placed on notice should hand them to the committee clerk in the next 30 minutes. I thank the Parliamentary Secretary and the officers from the Department of Transport for their assistance this afternoon. Division 52: Main Roads, $620 366 000 - Hon George Cash, Chairman. Hon G.T. Giffard, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr G. Martin, Commissioner of Main Roads. Mr R. Phillips, Manager, Budget and Program Management, Main Roads Western Australia. Mr R. Farrell, Policy Officer, Office of the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure. The CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance. Members are asked to sit towards the front of the Chamber where practicable so that witnesses will not have to turn their head when answering questions. It will greatly assist Hansard if when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I seek your cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to your advisers. May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The Committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. At this time, I ask the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form. WITNESSES: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: Do all the witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: There are no questions on notice in respect of this division. The budget for Main Roads will be found at pages 869 to 890 of the Budget Statements. Hon ALAN CADBY: I refer to page 877. The net cost of output has fallen from $249.87 million to $237.36 million, which represents a fall of $12 million. The table for output measures shows 658 lane kilometres of new roads constructed for 2000-01 and a target of 753 lane kilometres for 2001-02. It seems that more kilometres of road are being constructed for less money. A note on the page indicates that freeway works during 2000-01 significantly increased the cost of each lane. Can I be guaranteed that the quality of the roadworks has not decreased during 2000- 01? How many kilometres of freeway works were constructed during 2000-01 and how many are projected for 2001- 02? Mr MARTIN: I must make an explanatory comment. The figures are quite crude as they cover a wide range of roads, from cheaply constructed country roads to expensive metropolitan freeways. It is difficult to make a direct comparison. I do not have the details at the moment but I can provide them through supplementary information. Hon ALAN CADBY: What about the quality of the road surfacing? Mr MARTIN: The quality of the road surfacing is appropriate to the particular project. It is no reflection on the quality of roadworks completed. Hon J.A. SCOTT: Does Main Roads have recent valuations for land tied up in unused road reserves? Are valuations for discrete sections of the road reserves available? If so, how can I get a copy of the information? [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E743

Mr MARTIN: We should have a register of the value of the land. It would be required for the annual reporting statements. I will have to make further inquiries to see whether the department has the details the member is asking for. If details are available, they can be supplied as supplementary information. The CHAIRMAN: The parliamentary secretary has agreed to that. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: Numerous references are made to Roe Highway. Page 883 contains numerous references for proposed capital works. I require information for the stages of Roe Highway between Nicholson Road and the Kwinana Freeway. Is the estimated total cost of the works to construct and seal Nicholson Road to South Street $99 million? A number of local authorities and I were under the impression that that was the cost not only for that stage but also for the subsequent South Street to Kwinana Freeway stage. I thought it was $98 million for those two stages, not just for the one shown in the Budget Statements. Mr MARTIN: I have some difficulty answering that question. I would have to check that and supply the information later. However, the Nicholson Road to South Street development is stage 6. Expressions of interest in that development have been advertised and will close shortly. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: Again, this question might have to be taken on notice, and I appreciate the parliamentary secretary’s assistance. My understanding is that the total cost of stages 6 and 7 will be $98 million. At the end of last year or earlier this year, the federal Government advanced $76 million towards the cost of that project. Will the minister clarify that matter? If the Commonwealth Government advanced $76 million, where is that money shown in the budget? Mr MARTIN: The member is correct. The budget shows that $98 million has been provided for stages 6 and 7 from Nicholson Road through South Street to the Kwinana Freeway. He is also correct in stating that the Commonwealth has made available $76 million towards that project. The start of that money was for this current financial year. As we are not able to use the money this year, we have discussed with the Commonwealth whether it could be reallocated so that it can match the anticipated construction time. Those discussions are continuing with the federal Government. The member’s understanding was correct. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: I appreciate that stage 6, the Nicholson Road to South Street stage, is going ahead. However, if stage 7 does not go ahead in conjunction with it, other members, local authorities and I are concerned that that will empty freeway traffic onto South Street with consequent impacts on the surrounding areas. Furthermore, if tenders for stages 6 and 7 are not conducted simultaneously, that will make the project more expensive by several million dollars. Therefore, I put it to the minister that stages 6 and 7 should go ahead together for these two reasons: first, the Roe Highway should be taken to a more appropriate destination, for example, another freeway; and, secondly, to save several million dollars of public money. Mr MARTIN: The member is correct about the splitting of stages 6 and 7. As I mentioned earlier, stage 6 is in the marketplace and expressions of interest, which close in November, have been advertised. Stage 7 has been held back by the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure for the purpose of conducting a freight network review. On the completion of that review it is anticipated that the final route for stage 7 will be identified and we will then need to go through the various processes to put it into the market. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: Will that cost extra? The CHAIRMAN: Order! If the member would like additional information, perhaps Mr Martin will provide it. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I refer to the capital works in progress on page 882. The estimated total cost to construct and seal the Geraldton southern transport corridor is $46 million. The estimated expenditure for 2000-01 is $4.3 million, and $4.8 million for 2001-02. I refer to the major policy decisions since the state election on page 870. That shows this financial year’s budget estimates and the estimates for the out years to 2005. It has been suggested that there was some public misunderstanding and that the Government had not committed itself to provide funds for the out years. I was pleased to see that commitment in the budget. I would appreciate detailed information, as best as can be provided this afternoon, about the benefits that will be derived from this substantial expenditure commitment by the Gallop Labor Government. Mr MARTIN: The primary benefits of the project will be to remove the railway line from the foreshore in Geraldton, which may be a barrier to development that the City of Geraldton wishes to conduct. It will also provide a primary freight corridor for road and rail that will make a more or less direct line from the industrial area to the port. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: I would like clarification of the road sections detailed in pages 881 to 885 of the Budget Statements. I will concentrate on the Cervantes-Lancelin and the Hyden-Corrigin roads, which the previous Government would have funded. Bearing in mind the importance of those roads to a range of people, what is the program for them in the out years? I would also like to know the out years estimates for grain logistics, lime sands and the Derby Airport to the turn off of Binnu-Tenindewa-Muirs Road. I will provide members with a list of those roads. Mr MARTIN: I can provide some answers; however, it would take some time for me to dig through my notes. It may be more valuable if I provide supplementary information if the parliamentary secretary agrees.

E744 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Hon G.T. GIFFARD: Yes, I agree. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: Will the minister allow me to have the estimates for the out years for the works in progress of the roads being built? I would like to ask questions about those first two roads. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: How much information is the member asking for? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: There are seven roads. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: For what years? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: For the budget period. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: For the forward estimates? Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: Yes. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We could provide the figures for the forward estimates. Hon M.J. CRIDDLE: Would the member comment specifically on Cervantes, Lancelin, Hyden and Corrigin? [3.10 pm] Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We will have to supply that as supplementary information. Mr MARTIN: I indicated that I would be able to provide that information but it will take some time. Alternatively, I can provide it as supplementary information. The CHAIRMAN: Under the circumstances that question will have to be taken on notice because I have a huge number of members who want to ask questions. Hon KATE DOUST: I refer to works in progress on page 883 of the Budget Statements. Is the Government still committed to deleting the Fremantle eastern bypass from the metropolitan region scheme? If so, when does the Government expect to present an MRS amendment to Parliament? Mr MARTIN: It is the Government’s policy not to proceed with the Fremantle eastern bypass, and to remove the reservation from the MRS. I do not have carriage of that activity because it comes under the Department of Planning and Infrastructure, so it would have to provide the member with information about the actual timing. The CHAIRMAN: We are dealing with that division later this afternoon if the member wishes to raise that question again. Hon BARRY HOUSE: My question relates to some significant country roads particularly in the south west, and I am sure Mr Martin did not mean by his earlier comment that the standard of country roads does not have to be as high as the standard for city roads. Under the major policy decisions listed at page 870 in the Budget Statements, I can see only the Bunbury port access road and Peel deviation. My question relates to the current time frame and forward estimates for not only those two roadworks, but also the Serpentine deviation, the Margaret River bypass and upgrades that are well overdue on Muirs Highway and Mowen Road. That question might have to be taken on notice, but I am keen to get the time frames and forward estimates for all six of those roadworks. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: Mr Martin can speak about the Serpentine matter, but we will have take the other questions on notice. Mr MARTIN: It has been recommended to the Government that the Serpentine and Peel deviation be built in the 2005 time period. It is the Government’s endeavour to seek federal government assistance with that particular project. That will be the subject of a submission from the State to the Commonwealth seeking that funding. In order to give accurate and timely information about the other matters, I will provide answers by way of supplementary information. Hon J.A. SCOTT: Further to the point made by Hon Simon O’Brien about sections 6 and 7 on the Roe Highway, it appears to me that if section 6 is built on its current alignment it will be difficult to deviate section 7 so that it does not cut through Ken Hurst Park, and even to avoid coming straight in towards the Bibra Lake. Does the contract for section 6 have any flexibility for amending the alignment to allow for a deviation of section 7 if the review shows that that is required? Mr MARTIN: The expression of interest has been released for stage 6, and when the short-listed companies are identified, they will be asked to tender a proposal for the construction of that stage. I do not expect a contract to be awarded until the middle of next year. There is flexibility in the period leading up to that time. At this stage we are going down the path of building within the current road reserve. The minister has indicated that she expects stage 7 to be built but she wants to be able to decide exactly what its alignment will be. The intent is that we do not enter a contract for stage 6 that will cause difficulties with stage 7. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I refer to works in progress on page 882 of the Budget Statements. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E745

Hon Ken Travers: Works in progress sounds like one of your speeches. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: My speeches, my son, are unfinished gems. The total cost of the Great Eastern Highway to Orrong Road bypass is an estimated $55 million, and $3.3 million has been spent to 30 June 2001. There is no figure in the column for estimated expenditure for 2001-02, and the Government has told us that if there is nothing in the forward estimates, then it is not in the program. There are no forward estimates so I would like to be assured that the upgrade of the Great Eastern Highway to Orrong Road bypass is on the program. When will it be met? I remind the minister that the Treasurer raised his right hand and promised that it would be met within the first term of this Government. Mr MARTIN: This project is on the Great Eastern Highway which is a national highway. Consequently, it must be funded by the federal Government. At this time there is no funding for that particular work. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Is it not on the program? Mr MARTIN: No, it is not. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to page 884 of the Budget Statements and specifically the Tonkin Highway extension. Has the Government made any progress in the budget towards meeting its commitment to complete the southern extension to Tonkin Highway to Armadale Road by 2004, and to Mundijong via the South Western Highway by 2006? As a result of this extension, when can residents in the East Metropolitan Region expect to benefit from a reduction in heavy haulage vehicles on their local roads? Mr MARTIN: The Government’s commitments for 2004 and 2006 are in planning. We are proceeding with land acquisition, environmental clearances and preliminary design, and we anticipate meeting those time targets. Hon W.N. STRETCH: I have a two-pronged policy question. The first is regarding the Albany Highway-Serpentine link to the south west, which has been a bone of contention. I note the first dot point on page 869 which refers to a road system that provides social and economic benefits. Has progress been made on that severe bottleneck, because the prospect of diverting that traffic into Armadale and out again is patently absurd. Has any forward planning been done in the context of the first dot point which refers to safe, economic and efficient movement of goods? The second issue relating to planning, is that it is stimulated by the report that there may be an experiment - I call it a flirtation - with the state shipping service into the north. Are there any shortcomings in the road system in the north that provoke the thought of providing a shipping system again? In other words, could that system do something that the road network cannot currently cope with? [3.20 pm] Mr MARTIN: I think the member is referring to what is commonly known as the southern link road through Jarrahdale. A number of studies have considered alternative routes for that connection. Those studies have been presented to the minister, who wishes to have those options considered as part of the freight network review which she has initiated. From that freight network review, I anticipate a conclusion about the future of that route. It is fair to say that any of the road solutions would be very expensive, which will present some difficulty in funding by the Government. The second question asked by the member was about coastal shipping. My appreciation of the minister’s view is that increasing the amount of shipping may reduce the wear and tear on the road system in the north of the State. I do not believe that the road system is so deficient as to require that action. It is more a matter of trying to minimise the wear and tear on the road system. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Page 97 of the Economic and Fiscal Outlook refers to the expansion of the network of dedicated cycleways in Perth and regional centres. How is that project progressing, and what is the ultimate aim of that initiative? How will the Western Australian public, and particularly the cycling public, benefit from this wonderful initiative? Mr MARTIN: The responsibility for the cycle plan is split between Main Roads and the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Page 883 of the Budget Statements shows funding for stage 1 of the Perth Bike Plan of $5.73 million for this year. It is proceeding, although I believe the cycling fraternity want it to proceed faster than it is. Subject to the availability of funding, good strides are being made. It is a Main Roads and a government policy that bicycle paths are included in the project cost of major freeway links, and are not separately funded in the Bike Plan. Thus more is being spent on bicycle paths than necessarily shows in the budget papers. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Is the aim that bicycle paths will be available within 750 metres of every home? Mr MARTIN: That is the general aim. It would require substantial additional expenditure over time to achieve that, but the aim is to make cycling a viable alternative for short trips. Hon B.M. SCOTT: My question has been already partially answered, and relates to the Fremantle eastern bypass. I refer to page 870 of the Budget Statements, under the major decisions made since the last budget. What is the current status of the road reservation? Will the Government be selling off the reservation if it is lifted when the metropolitan

E746 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] region scheme amendment is done? What funds will be saved and, more importantly for Fremantle people, will funds be spent to upgrade an alternative route to connect with the Fremantle-Rockingham highway and the port? Is the upgrading of Stock Road planned; if so, at what cost? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: I prefer to take that question on notice, except for the first part, in which Hon Barbara Scott asked about the status of the road reservation. Mr Martin can provide some information on that. Mr MARTIN: My understanding is that the reservation is still in place, and is subject to the freight network review, which will consider alternative routes giving access to the port. Hon PETER FOSS: What was the cost of the Windan Bridge, and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge? There is a railway bridge alongside the Windan Bridge. What was the cost of that? Mr MARTIN: I can answer part of the question. The Narrows Bridge project cost $49 million. I do not have to hand the figures for the Windan Bridge or the railway bridge that crosses the Swan River. That information can be supplied through supplementary information, if the parliamentary secretary agrees. The CHAIRMAN: The parliamentary secretary has agreed that that information will be provided by supplementary information. Hon BARRY HOUSE: As Main Roads is responsible for speed limits on main highways, I have a question about the new Dawesville deviation, south of Mandurah. This deviation has just been opened, and it is a magnificent stretch of road - a four-lane dual carriageway. It has controlled access, and is fenced on both sides where there is bush. The speed limit on that section is 90 kilometres an hour. At the end of that section, travelling south, the road reverts to two lanes, which is much less safe, and the speed limit suddenly increases to 110 kilometres an hour. There is no logic in this at all. Why is the speed limit in the new Dawesville deviation not 110 kilometres an hour? Mr MARTIN: I cannot comment on the specific criteria that were used to decide the limit, but I know there is some concern about traffic movements in that area, and the fact that it is a relatively built up area. I presume, subject to my checking, that that is the basis for having a speed limit lower than the maximum. Hon G.T. GIFFARD: I will take the question on notice to obtain the specific detail. Hon N.F. MOORE: Is it correct that the previous Government estimated that an all-weather sealed road between Karratha and Tom Price would cost in the vicinity of $240 million? In view of the fact that the Government has allocated $120 million over several years to that road, can the parliamentary secretary explain what quality that road will be? Will it be a double-lane, sealed all-weather road, or something less than that, bearing in mind the significant variation in the costs between the estimate of the previous Government and that being spent now? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: I thank the member for the question, and ask Mr Martin to respond. Mr MARTIN: The estimated cost of a completely sealed road between Karratha and Tom Price is in the order of $250 million. This Government has made a commitment of $100 million, which will fund two of the four stages of the road - the stage north from Tom Price and that south from Karratha. The two stages in the middle remain to be completed. Hon N.F. MOORE: What will be the quality of the roads in the two stages that have been committed to? Will they be double-width, sealed, all-weather bitumen roads? Mr MARTIN: It will be a single-carriageway, two-lane sealed all-weather road. Hon ADELE FARINA: I refer to the item on page 884 of the Budget Statements, in relation to the South Western Highway between Donnybrook and Bridgetown. Could the parliamentary secretary please provide an update of the progress of that road? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: We do not have that information available, so that question can be taken on notice. [3.30 pm] Hon N.F. MOORE: I ask a further supplementary question: what is the distance involved in the sections to the north of Tom Price and south of Karratha? Mr MARTIN: The stage that runs north from Tom Price to the Nanutarra-Munjina road is 22.5 kilometres and the estimated cost of that project is $20 million. The other stage, from Karratha to Curlewis, is 89.8 kilometres and will be completed at an estimated cost of $80 million. Hon N.F. MOORE: I suspect that is about half the total length of the road. Mr MARTIN: Yes. The total length of the road is about 267 kilometres. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: My question follows from one asked earlier. It was indicated that the Government proposed to delete the reservation for the Fremantle eastern bypass, which would mean that stage 9 of the construction of Roe Highway from the eastern bypass to Stock Road - a major north-south transit route - would not proceed. If that were so, [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E747 traffic from north of the river would not be able to proceed by that route. I will stand corrected if that is not the case. The Government would obviously not be so irresponsible as to abandon that long-term planning decision without being able to say what it will do with that traffic and how that traffic will cross the river at Fremantle to get to either Stock Road or the Kwinana Freeway. What plans does the Government have for that traffic if the eastern bypass is deleted? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: I thank the member for the question. That matter will be subject to the minister’s plans for the freight network review. It will no doubt be considered during the review. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: Has the Government decided to delete the eastern bypass? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: The future contingencies for that area will be subject to the review. If the member seeks more precise information, I will take the question on notice and seek advice from the minister. Hon SIMON O’BRIEN: I would appreciate the parliamentary secretary taking my question on notice. Hon J.A. SCOTT: Is the sale of the land from the eastern bypass included in the forward estimates of this budget? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: No. The CHAIRMAN: If there are no further urgent questions, this division will draw to a close. I thank the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure and the officers for their attendance and assistance. Sitting suspended from 3.33 to 3.50 pm Division 9: Office of the Auditor General, $8 084 000 - Hon George Cash, Chairman. Hon N.D. Griffiths, Minister for Racing and Gaming. Mr K. O’Neil, Acting Auditor General. Miss J. Reutens, Manager, Financial and Administrative Resources. The CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome members, our professional advisers and the minister to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance. It will greatly assist Hansard if when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I seek the minister’s cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to his advisers. May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The Committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. For the benefit of members and Hansard I ask the minister to introduce his advisers to the Committee, and for each adviser to please state their full name, contact address and the capacity in which they appear before the Committee. Hon PETER FOSS: I understand that Mr O’Neil is the Acting Auditor General. Why is the Auditor General not present? It may have been unavoidable. The CHAIRMAN: That information will be provided before the first question. I am conscious that members require chief executive officers to be present for these hearings, unless they are unavoidably overseas. At this time, I ask the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form. WITNESSES: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: Do both witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: Both witnesses confirm their understanding of the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document. For the Committee’s benefit, I indicate that the Auditor General, Mr Des Pearson, is overseas on business and therefore unable to be with the Committee today. The Chairman and Deputy Chairmen of Committees were aware of that, but believed it would still be beneficial for the Committee if the Acting Auditor General were invited to attend. Members can ask any question they wish about the division covering the Office of Auditor General. However, the main purpose

E748 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] of calling the Auditor General, who is an officer of this Parliament, was to invite him to comment on any issues that he believed may be relevant to this division and give him an opportunity to raise any other matters with the Committee; and to allow the Committee to put questions to the Auditor General about either this division or general audit matters. The minister with responsibility for the Auditor General in this Chamber has advised me that he recognises that the Auditor General is an officer of the Parliament, and that he will act in a courtesy position by inviting either the Acting Auditor General or Miss Reutens to answer questions. Mr Kerry O’Neil may like to advise the committee on the role of the Auditor General and general procedures under his responsibility. Members will be aware that in past years it has sometimes been the practice to have a representative of the Auditor General’s department at this table for the whole week. That was discontinued in recent years because it was not considered viable to tie up one of the Auditor General’s staff for a week given that members have the opportunity to ask questions on audit during consideration of the respective division or with the Auditor General when the Auditor General attends this committee. Mr O’NEIL: Essentially, the role of the Auditor General is to provide opinions on financial statements of the various government agencies. That is his prime focus throughout the year, but particularly at this time of the year when audit opinions are signed off. Three main areas are within the office, one being the attest audit division. During the year our audit teams work in various agencies and examine controls and financial and performance data leading up to this time of the year when financial statements are prepared and when we need to examine them in some detail and sign off on them. Ordinarily at that time much interaction occurs between the office and individual agencies to clarify and amend various parts of the statements and performance indicators. The office usually provides a fairly substantial management letter to the agency to advise of matters that need attention in the short term but that are not significant enough to necessitate qualification in the financial statements. Ordinarily each year we find it necessary to qualify about six or seven of the financial statements of the various agencies because of a significant matter. That statement is included in the Auditor General’s opinion. Increasingly over the past 10 years we have attempted to put more resources into the other areas where we carry out two other forms of audit, one of which is a compliance control and accountability audit. This involves visiting a specific agency or a small group of agencies and examining particular control issues; for example, how they handle credit card controls or aspects of expenditure; or for example, we may examine the way the Public Trust Office carries out a specific function within its office. We usually report those compliance control accountability audits to this Parliament two or three times a year in what we term a public sector performance report. In those reports, between four and six separate mini-reports of three or four pages highlight the issues. We feel they are a good way of getting a snapshot and looking at an issue in more depth across a range of agencies or in one agency. We also have a separate group of about 12 staff, which form our performance review division. Each year it aims to produce between six and eight significant reports, which we table in Parliament as one-off reports. One was tabled yesterday on complaints management practices within government agencies. These studies are normally completed in six to eight months by one or two staff members working full time. They generally require extensive in-depth data gathering in one agency or a range of agencies. Rather than concentrating on control and compliance, we examine the efficiency and effectiveness of government programs. It is well worth moving those resources into that area. Over the nine years that he has been in the role, the Auditor General has made a conscious effort to reduce the effort expended on the more routine financial audits, without diminishing the quality of those audits, and to place more emphasis on control and accountability audits and the performance examination audits. That is our direction at the present time. The office attempts to keep up to date with current audit practice, standards and methodologies. We liaise closely with the Australasian Council of Auditors-General about standards and policies. Last year we embarked upon a significant internal exercise when we introduced the Adapt methodology, which is a more rigorous computerised system that handles our essential financial audits. The exercise involved significant cost and effort, but the system is proving very effective. Some audits have required a little more effort this year than in previous years because of the learning curve. However, by and large, it has been an effective exercise. [4.00 pm] Hon PETER FOSS: The indicators of efficiency and performance have always caused concern. There seems to be a three-way passing of the buck: the agencies always blame the Auditor General, the Auditor General always blames Treasury and Treasury always blames the agencies. There is a degree of three-way reliance in that the Office of the Auditor General criticises agencies if they do not have indicators, Treasury often approves them and the agencies have to come up with them. The parliamentary counsel complained about his efficiency being reckoned by the number of pages of Acts he rewrote. Surely the smaller the number of Acts rewritten the better off we would be? Nonetheless, he got stuck with that as his output measure. Are we not running the risk that, unless the three agencies get together and come up with some sensible measures - it may be that parliamentary counsel does not have one - we will continue with these nonsensical exercises? Parliamentary counsel changed the numbering of drafts when a full set of changes had been passed. However, as a result of the imposition of this performance output measure, every time a change was [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E749 made, another edition was published so that the output could be counted. What is being done to make the output measures sensible rather than a mere formality? Mr O’NEIL: That is a very good question. Initially when performance indicators were introduced and the legislation required that they be audited, the Auditor General was not able to provide an opinion. Much work was done with individual agencies to establish meaningful indicators. It is generally conceded that great progress has been made in some agencies and that the indicators are useful and meaningful. More recently, with the move towards output-based statements and the measures included in the Treasury Budget Statements, the indicators applied to some agencies have not linked to the performance indicators that are audited and included in the annual report. We have examined those issues in recent weeks to establish how we might address those problems. Generally speaking, the performance indicators for many agencies are meaningful. Hon PETER FOSS: What methodology will the Office of the Auditor General adopt to establish which are useful, which are not and which are counterproductive? How can they be eliminated if there is no meaningful output? Mr O’NEIL: The Auditor General is required to provide an opinion on the performance indicators. He is looking at it from two perspectives: first, whether data exists to support the indicators. That involves checking the base data to ensure that the information being provided is reliable. Second, we are forming an opinion about whether the indicators demonstrate the effectiveness of the program. Obviously that is a far more difficult area to address. Much progress has been made in recent years, but further progress is needed in some areas, and the Auditor General is aware of that. Hon PETER FOSS: I understand that parliamentary counsel fought this for some years. He was told that he had to have at one least indicator. He could not come up with an alternative, so he has given up and is stuck with this one. It appears that agencies must have at least one indicator, whether or not it is ludicrous. He is caught in a bind between the Auditor General - who says he must have one - and Treasury, which agrees. Surely it would be better not to include a nonsensical indicator? Mr O’NEIL: I am not aware of the indicator to which the member has referred. It is a question of establishing whether a meaningful indicator can be applied. Hon PETER FOSS: The answer is no; that is why he is stuck. The CHAIRMAN: Mr O’Neil referred to projects the Auditor General undertakes throughout the year. He might wish to consider the relevance and value of performance indicators as one such project. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to page 175 and ongoing government and organisational reform and the complex contractual arrangements that Governments have historically entered into. My question relates to the extent to which this might make the Auditor General’s work more difficult. It could cause an acceleration of the costs associated with conducting an audit of contractual arrangements. That brings to mind the limitations imposed by commercial-in- confidence provisions and the problems they might cause. [4.10 pm] Mr O’NEIL: Tenders for a specific item purchased or built are simple from an audit perspective. On the other hand, we are currently undertaking a performance examination looking at aspects of the contracting out of government information technology services over recent years. It involves two major contracts involving a conglomerate arrangement. Both of the contracts have a range of government departments operating under flexible conditions. We are trying to assess how effective they have been and whether the cost savings and advantages have been realised. It is far more complex than the traditional tender arrangement. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: What about the extent to which principal contractors enter into subcontracting arrangements? Is it possible to get to the subcontractor level in order to get a realistic picture of what is going on? Mr O’NEIL: I am not aware that we have had any particular problems in getting that sort of information. It is a risk to the Government because government agencies cannot absolve themselves from risk when contracting work. If the work is subcontracted, the risk is higher. Hon N.F. MOORE: Mr O’Neil mentioned that the Office of the Auditor General undertakes six or seven major projects each year. How are decisions made about which project will be undertaken? Is there not an element of subjectivity about value for money auditing? How is that reconciled with the traditional role of an auditor, which is black and white? Mr O’NEIL: When trying to identify particular areas that we might look at, we look at the areas that have been audited. We ensure that we have a reasonable coverage across the regulated aspects of government including health and education. We look at a range of government organisations, from large to small. The office has focus groups that evaluate a range of topics. We conducted an exercise in February when we had several hundred potential topics. We narrowed the options down to about 40 topics. We do preliminary work to identify the significant issues that might arise from each topic. We then structure a work program for the next 12 months. We often try to ensure that there is some formal benchmark that we can use. We were able to use the Australian standard on complaints as a benchmark

E750 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] for our report on complaint management. We used it to determine how agencies were managing complaints relative to the standards. Before the end of the year we hope to report on measures addressing self-harm and youth suicide. Australian guidelines were produced some years ago by a group of medical specialists. In carrying out the performance examination we have utilised our own staff to do much of the policy ground work. We have engaged two medical specialists in this field who helped develop the guidelines a few years ago. They have undertaken case file examinations to see when patients attended hospitals and what were the case practices. By matching the documentation to what occurred relative to the guidelines, they can form opinions as to the effectiveness of practices. We try to obtain specific measurements when we can. Some areas come down to a viewpoint or opinion. We are currently looking at the BIPAC computer contracts. We will be able to quantify cost advantages in some areas. Other advantages of the contracts, such as computer expertise to the State, are more difficult to quantify. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: The Office of the Auditor General looks at contracts after they have been signed or after they have been in operation for some time. I remember the office examining the Matrix contract. It raised concerns and reported to Parliament. Is there some scope for the office to become involved prior to contracts being signed rather than becoming involved at the tail end when, if there is risk to the State, there is a high probability it will not be picked up. If the office acted as a filter, some contracts would not be entered into. Is there a role for the Office of the Auditor General or is that sitting outside its jurisdiction? Mr O’NEIL: I see it as sitting outside our jurisdiction. If the Auditor General were to get involved in the early stages and cast an opinion or influence matters it would be very difficult to come in later objectively and tell a department that it got it right or wrong. It could be done only when there was a clear finishing point. If departments get to a certain point and want an independent opinion before proceeding, it is a circumstance under which it could be done. We have to be very careful about mixing our roles. The CHAIRMAN: We have finished the time for this division. Are there any urgent questions? Hon N.F. MOORE: Who audits the Auditor General? Mr O’NEIL: That is a good question. We used Hall Chadwick this year. The arrangement was made through the Treasury. We attempt to have a peer review throughout Australia and New Zealand every three years. Eighteen months ago we had a person from another State audit the office for about a month. We had a rigorous audit of our financial attest audit work and our performance indicator work. We got a good critique on areas in which we could improve. The CHAIRMAN: I thank the minister and the witnesses for their attendance and advice this afternoon. This committee values constructive comment from the Auditor General on issues within the committee’s terms of reference. Any recommendations that should be considered by the committee would be appreciated. Correspondence can be addressed to the President of the Legislative Council who will pass on the details to the committee. The committee would be grateful if the Auditor General had constructive advice that would improve the way in which it operates. [4.20 pm]

Division 50: Planning and Infrastructure, $410 625 000 - Division 54: Western Australian Planning Commission, $84 617 000 - Hon George Cash, Chairman. Hon Graham Giffard, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr P. Frewer, Acting Director General, Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr A. Hubbard, Executive Director, Regional and Policy Coordination, Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr P. Melbin, Executive Director, Corporate Management, Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr W. Ielati, Assistant Director, Financial Services, Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr M. Burgess, Acting Director Transperth, Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Mr R. Farrell, Policy Officer, Office of Minister for Planning and Infrastructure. The CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance. It will greatly assist Hansard if, when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I seek the Parliamentary Secretary’s cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to the Parliamentary Secretary’s advisers. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E751

I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The Committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. At this time, I ask each of the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form. Do all the witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Before we proceed, how many of the parliamentary secretary’s advisers are public officers of the department, and how many are term-of-government appointees of the minister? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: There are five public officers and Mr Farrell is from the minister’s office. He is a term-of- government officer. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Is it usual that a ministerial adviser sit in on the hearings in this way? The CHAIRMAN: Ministerial advisers have been present for hearings held by the previous Government and the Government before that. In the past, they have not necessarily sat in the Chamber. However, I see no problem with their sitting in the Chamber. They are there to provide assistance or attendance upon the minister. I assume that it is more convenient for the parliamentary secretary to have access to the officer in the Chamber rather than from behind the Bar of the House, which is not closed during these sessions. [4.30 pm] Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Significant issues and trends on page 815 state that legislative amendments will be necessary to implement the new arrangements for the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. In previous hearings I have observed an unwillingness to answer questions which may infringe upon different sections of the department. For example, the transport department will say that a certain matter belongs to the railways, the railways will say that it belongs to the planning department and the planning department will say that it belongs to somebody else. I understand that the compartmentalised structure of the administration is historical. However, there is clearly a need for an overlap or a direction of authority in this system. What will be the line of authority in the department when the legislation is introduced? When will we see that legislation, and when will that line of authority come into being? Mr FREWER: The Department for Planning and Infrastructure is an amalgamation of the Department of Transport and the Ministry for Planning. Both agencies had various pieces of legislation to support their activities. In order for the department to become operational in its new form as the Department for Planning and Infrastructure, a number of administrative issues have to be dealt with, including reforming issues such as the membership of the Western Australian Planning Commission, which is prescribed under the Act. That had to be reviewed. There is also an initiative to create a Western Australian transit authority, and that legislation is currently being drafted. We also have to look at the implications for the Office of Road Safety with regard to its relationship with the old Department of Transport and the new Department for Planning and Infrastructure. The idea is to have a central department for planning and infrastructure in the portfolio that will be responsible for policy and planning, and a series of service delivery agencies that will consist of instrumentalities such as the port authorities, the redevelopment authorities, LandCorp, Main Roads, and Western Australia Government Railways so that the policy and planning of those areas will picked up by the department. A funding relationship will also be developed in that time so that the services that are provided by the old portfolio are split between policy and planning relationships through the DPI, and the service delivery aspect will be handled through the other service authorities. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: There is a need for that sort of cohesion in the organisational structure since there are so many overlapping responsibilities in planning, transport and land use. I accept the argument, and I thank Mr Frewer for his explanation. However, after the minister, where will ultimate responsibility lie? Will ultimate responsibility lie with the head of the unit that Mr Frewer called policy and planning? Mr FREWER: The Department for Planning and Infrastructure will be headed by a director general, who has yet to be appointed. That director general will be in charge of the policy and planning areas and a range of infrastructure delivery and portfolio service areas that will come under that area of jurisdiction. The relationship between the department and its service delivery agencies is still evolving. The service agencies have their own legislation and a range of other issues with which they must deal. We are currently going through a corporate planning process to determine how those relationships can be defined. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: In that case, where we now have a Commissioner of Main Roads and a commissioner of Railways, under the new structure will they be service sectors - or whatever they will be called - of the new planning department? Mr FREWER: They will remain separate entities.

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Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: If they remain separate entities, what will be the direct line of authority? Will the head of the department of planning and policy be superior in authority to the Commissioner of Main Roads or the Commissioner of Railways - if they are the titles - or will they be of equal status? If they have an equal status, where and how will authority be devolved in that system? Mr FREWER: They will remain separate authorities with their own chief executive officer or an equivalent - such as the Commissioner of Main Roads and the Commissioner of Railways - as employing authorities. However, the allocation of priorities for their projects will be dealt with by the Department for Planning and Infrastructure, which will set out the broad framework within which they will work, and it will put in place the operational issues. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: Dot point four on page 831 of the Budget Statements deals with the procurement of a SmartCard ticketing system, which will be followed by the trialling and implementation of the new system. What was the success of the TravelSmart demonstration in South Perth, and what is the value to the community in expanding this program? Mr BURGESS: The TravelSmart scheme was very successful over a confined municipal area of South Perth. It was successful in promoting public transport, cycling and pedestrian activity as alternative forms of transport. Public transport success was well measured after the trial, and the growth in public transport was in the order of 20 per cent. The success rate is not measured on that trial alone, as additional survey work that has been completed in other areas of metropolitan Perth suggests that the exact same levels of success could be achieved in other areas, and that is a pointer to the areas in which the trial should be implemented. Hon PETER FOSS: With respect to the new southern railway, I am curious to know what effect a railway constructed on a riverfront will have on passenger numbers. Obviously one of the things taken into account is the ability to draw passengers from the surrounding district, and not many passengers will be drawn from the Swan River. What will be the loss in passenger numbers by virtue of the fact that the railway will pass along the river? It was also mentioned that the shorter route - I think it is 12 minutes shorter - would compensate for that. What is the predicted increase, taking into account this shorter route, and exactly how much shorter is it? What is the authority for the two answers? Mr FREWER: The calculations on the potential patronage on the direct route through the freeway indicates that there would be a preliminary benefit of about 5 000 extra passengers each day. That is based on two facts: firstly, the line will go through an area that has a higher population density than the Kenwick route, which would have gone through Thomsons Lake; and, secondly, the population densities in areas like South Perth are relatively high. The increased accessibility of the railway line would have also led to those calculations being in place. The authority for that is a report that was released yesterday by the minister. The report looks at the preliminary assessment of the routes, and it is now available. Hon PETER FOSS: Firstly, I understood that one of the benefits of the Kenwick route was that it would lead to development along the line, thereby increasing the initial number of passengers over the years as the development followed the railway. Secondly, where will the passengers get on the train in South Perth? Where is the department planning to put the stations? Where will the department find the land for these stations, given that the area of public land along the front of South Perth is somewhat filled by a freeway at the moment? The cost of obtaining the land through compulsory acquisition might be a little expensive - I do not refer only to the stations, but also to parking areas and other things that allow people to get on a train. [4.40 pm] Hon G.T. GIFFARD: Does the question relate to the South Perth station, or the stations along the line? Hon PETER FOSS: There are two questions, one following from the other. The first relates to the Kenwick route, and asks about the degree to which there would be an increase in passenger traffic, due to the siting of the railway, which would lead to development. The second question asked how the people in the area in which the Government predicted there would be more passenger traffic will actually get on to the train, in view of the difficulties of infrastructure for railways, parking and interchanges on the foreshore. Mr FREWER: The first part of the question related to the access on the Kenwick route. It is envisaged at the moment that a spur will go into Thornlie, and perhaps to Nicholson Road. Hon PETER FOSS: I think the witness missed the point. I was asking whether it was intended that in the future there would be an increase in passenger traffic. The population of South Perth is fairly static. Was it not believed that the Kenwick route would lead to increased development in that area; that is, whatever the figure might be at the beginning, it would not continue into future, as there would be more people along the Kenwick route in the future? Mr FREWER: The comment I made earlier about being able to pick up people in South Perth related to a potential transfer station that would be built at Canning Bridge. The matter of stations north of there, between central Perth and Canning Bridge, will be determined in the preparation of the master plan. In an area of such high population density, that sort of issue needs to be resolved through the master planning process, to examine the options available in that area. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E753

The member is right in saying that the area is constrained, but that is not to say that there are no opportunities for stations in that area, and a committee will be looking at that over the next few months. Hon PETER FOSS: I still do not have an answer to the question I asked in relation to Kenwick. Did the planning relating to the Kenwick route not only take into account the immediate passenger numbers, but also the fact that the construction of the route would lead to further development of housing along the way, which would lead to even greater numbers in the future? In other words, was it not a strategic railway line? What is the comparison of numbers between that route, which is capable of development, and the South Perth route, which is probably fully developed? Mr FREWER: I can only refer to the figures that I have seen and the report on the preliminary evaluation, and as I answered earlier, the indications are that 5 000 extra people a day would use the direct route, as opposed to the Kenwick route. Hon PETER FOSS: So you do not know the future projections? Mr FREWER: I can obtain the figures. The CHAIRMAN: Mr Frewer has indicated he will provide some additional information to Hon Peter Foss on that issue. Hon J.A. SCOTT: Has the proposed sale of the land at the Apace site in North Fremantle been included in the budget projections? Why does the valuation of the Apace site, carried out by the property section of the Department for Planning and Infrastructure, include 1 105 square metres of the Vlamingh parklands river foreshore in lot 13, and a further 620 square metres of foreshore reserve in lot 15? Is the department intending to develop and sell areas of Vlamingh parklands and/or the foreshore reserve for development purposes, or does the valuation incorrectly include 1 725 square metres of unavailable land? Mr MELBIN: There are a number of elements to that question. To answer the first part, the budget papers presented by the Planning Commission do not include any allowance for revenue from the sale the Apace site. The second and third parts related in some detail to matters of the valuation, and they go to a level of detail that is not held here. The CHAIRMAN: The parliamentary secretary will take that part of the question on notice. Mr MELBIN: The third part asked if the land was to be developed - Hon J.A. SCOTT: The third part asked if the valuation appeared to take in parts of Vlamingh parklands and the river foreshore. Was the department intending to sell and develop parts of the parkland and the foreshore reserve? Mr MELBIN: No. Hon BARRY HOUSE: Prior to the state election and the subsequent change in government, there was considerable comment about the Leeuwin-Naturaliste statement of planning policy, and reviews of Smiths Beach and Gracetown in particular. I can see nothing in the documents to indicate what is happening there. Can the parliamentary secretary or his advisers enlighten me? Mr FREWER: The area of Smiths Beach has been very contentious with regard to development proposals. One of the issues that was put forward was the need to address those components of the statement of planning policy that covered Smiths Beach. At the moment, the proponents and the Planning Commission are working together, along with the action group, to try to find a form of words that would properly define the nature and extent of development in that area. At the same time, the developer has withdrawn his initial proposal and there is an agreement to advertise the methodologies that would be used for things like visual resource analysis, which is one of the major issues of concern in the community. We anticipate getting together a form of words in the near future to enable all the parties to have a say, and then it will be advertised and go through a process defined by section 5A of the Town Planning and Development Act, which relates to the preparation of statements of planning policy. A preliminary report on Gracetown looked at expansion potential, but because of a lack of resources within the department at present, that has not been taken to the next phase. One of the proposals within the initial statement of planning policy was to look at the expansion of areas such as Gracetown, and to use funds that could be generated from that to buy up areas suitable for inclusion in the national park, and rounding off the town site. The town site boundary of Gracetown is very extensive, and includes areas that could or should be incorporated as part of the national park. At the moment it really is a concept. It is supported by a report, but it has not formally gone to the next stage, which will look at the feasibility. Hon BARRY HOUSE: Just to clarify it completely in my mind, is the Leeuwin-Naturaliste statement of planning policy being reviewed in relation to Gracetown? Mr FREWER: It is not being reviewed in relation to Gracetown, but it is in relation to Smiths Beach. Hon DEE MARGETTS: My first question deals with either works in progress or completed works, and relates to the financial assistance provided to local coast managers for coast protection works, so it could relate to page 835 of the Budget Statements. The State has had an agreement in place for over 20 years, under which the Government contributes

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75 per cent of the costs of the nourishment of the beach around the Esperance town site, because it was associated with the construction of the Esperance port breakwater. The community has been advised that, because of budget cuts, this funding is not available. It is not for new works; it has been associated with a 20-year agreement. Could the parliamentary secretary give the reasons a 20-year agreement providing funds for a beach eroded by a breakwater should suddenly cease? How is the community supposed to come up with the extra funds? [4.50 pm] Mr HUBBARD: I confirm that the department, as the former Department of Transport, provided financial assistance for coastal protection works to local authorities. In particular, it provided funds for annual sand renourishment of Esperance beaches. I also confirm that no funds have been made available for that in the 2001-02 budget. In order to meet the Government’s budget targets, the department had to review its expenditure across its entire range of activities, and this was one activity it was not able to fund within its allocation. Hon DEE MARGETTS: I ask a supplementary question: is Esperance the only shire that has been affected in this way? How on earth does the department believe that damage caused by a state government-funded breakwater can suddenly be fully funded by a local shire? There is clear scientific evidence on this matter and an agreement has been in place for 20 years. What is the rationale behind leaving a local shire to pick up the tab for these works? Hon G.T. GIFFARD: I ask to take the second part of the member’s question on notice. Mr Hubbard can answer the first part of the question. Mr HUBBARD: No funds are available, across all local authorities, for this program. The Esperance situation is not unique. Hon DEE MARGETTS: How many authorities are similarly affected? Mr HUBBARD: That question would have to be taken on notice. The CHAIRMAN: Hon Dee Margetts has a follow-up question. Hon DEE MARGETTS: Thank you for that opportunity, Mr Chairman. I refer to the third dot point under the major achievements for 2001-02 on page 821 of the Budget Statements, which states - The Gingin Coast Structure Plan made substantial progress towards draft options being advertised for public comment. Many constituents have asked me about the progress of the structure plan. Will this process come to fruition? My constituents believed that it was initiated by the previous Government, because of the proposal for Breton Bay. They want to know whether it will be changed, because Breton Bay is no longer on the books. Can you clarify that Breton Bay will not go ahead as a heavy industrial area? Where do the road plans and the proposal for heavy duty powerlines fit into that, because none of those matters was in the Gingin coastal plan structure, on which my constituents were asked to comment. There is concern about what is or is not involved in the coastal plan structure. They want to know where the heck this process is going, if anywhere. Mr FREWER: The Gingin coast structure plan was prepared in consultation with the community and with input from a range of parties. One of the key issues it addressed was the nature and form of land use in the Gingin coastal area, including the option for a heavy industrial estate at Breton Bay. Policies changed with the change of Government earlier this year. It was made clear that Breton Bay might need to be re-examined in the context of how the Government saw that area proceeding. The decision on how to proceed with the plan has not yet been made because of the complexity of cross-portfolio issues and the need to involve a range of interests. Hon DEE MARGETTS: I ask a supplementary question: do you not know whether the structure plan consultation process will go anywhere? Mr FREWER: We will discuss with the minister how she wants the plan handled. That still must be completed because of the nature of the portfolio interests. Hon DEE MARGETTS: When will the community be given further information that will perhaps address some of the concerns I mentioned? Mr FREWER: That will occur once the minister has had an opportunity to consider it and has made a decision about how the Government wants to implement the policy. Hon B.M. SCOTT: I refer to the altered plan for the south metropolitan rail link and in particular to the bypass or direct route - whichever way people want to consider it - around Rockingham. The planning department had supported the route through Rockingham to connect the rail and the city centre. That was supported by demographics, population nodes and other matters. Was a proper process or modelling used to justify the new route, which will bypass Rockingham? Rockingham is the largest city outside Perth in Western Australia, and the largest city between Perth and Adelaide. Was modelling used and presented to the Government to justify this decision? Did the Department for Planning and Infrastructure have a part to play in that? [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E755

Mr FREWER: The extensive consultation process involved the examination of options for the rail link through Rockingham. As there have been changes to the complete project, there was a need to consider cost savings through the whole network. One of the issues examined in trying to provide a balance between community accessibility, improvements to the network function and financial limits was the option to locate the major Rockingham station just east of the city centre. That option is being considered in more detail through the master planning process. A separate committee has been established to examine linkages between the local area and that station. The work is ongoing and the outcome will be put forward in the master plan, which will be advertised early next year. Hon B.M. SCOTT: The planning department has a good reputation for using scientific indicators to determine matters such as this. Did the department use modelling to determine how many people in Rockingham would use the rail system if it ran along the land route? Mr FREWER: Refined modelling will be part of the master planning process. Hon LOUISE PRATT: A policy concerning maritime freight services to the Kimberley was announced prior to the election. I could not find any reference to that policy in the budget documents. I thought it might be contained in the listing for passenger and freight services on page 843 of the Budget Statements. Can you provide more information on that? Mr HUBBARD: The shipping service to the north west and the Kimberley, which replaced the government-owned state shipping service, is funded in the budget under the output for passenger and freight services. The shipping service, which is a subsidised freight service, is funded in that part of the budget. The Government’s election commitment was to trial a second ship, as there seemed to be an opportunity for a more extensive range of services. It is intended that a new round of operators will be invited to tender for that service when the contract with the current operator expires next year. They will be invited to tender on the basis of providing two ships, rather than one. The department and the Government will then be in a position to consider whether that is the best way to proceed. [5.00 pm] Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: One of the major policy decisions on page 816 is the establishment of the Armadale planning authority. I understand that the Minister for Planning and Infrastructure intends to introduce the necessary legislation into the other place before Christmas. The budget estimate for that authority is $750 000 for the current financial year and $250 000 for the next financial year. There is nothing further in the forward estimates. This will be the fourth such planning authority, but it will operate differently from the other three. The East Perth Redevelopment Authority had the benefit of a substantial injection of federal funds through the Building Better Cities program, which provided the infrastructure, and the aggregation of a large amount of public residential land close to the city, so government had a return on its investment. Similarly, the Subiaco Redevelopment Authority enjoyed the benefit of the aggregation of a large number of government properties close to the Subiaco commercial precinct and the railway, and government had a return on its investment. The Midland Redevelopment Authority had access to 74 hectares of aggregated railway land in the Midland railway workshops precinct. According to the Department of Land Administration, that land has negative value and is encumbered by hazardous waste sites that must be remediated. It also contains substantial heritage buildings that will be expensive to rehabilitate and difficult to lease. It is uncertain whether government will get a return on that investment. Government has not invested a great deal there anyway; it has been borrowings. However, the land in Armadale is disaggregated around various parts of the city. The authority’s area will comprise small pockets of land that do not have the advantage of being attractive residential land. Therefore, the returns will not be as attractive or as rapid as in East Perth and Subiaco, nor will there be an infusion of federal funds, as in the case of the Subiaco authority. There are no forward estimates for the Armadale authority after 2002. Is it anticipated that only $1 million will be provided for the Armadale planning authority, and is that money intended only for setting up the infrastructure? Mr FREWER: The legislation to establish the Armadale redevelopment authority was introduced into the other place yesterday. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: That is before Christmas, as I predicted. Mr FREWER: Right. My prediction was also correct. The forward estimates indicate the set-up cost of the Armadale redevelopment authority. It is different from the administrative structure of other redevelopment authorities in that the work will be administered by LandCorp rather than by a separate corporate service and chief executive officer. That is in line with the machinery of government recommendations. The member mentioned the amounts of $750 000 and $250 000. They reflect the cost of the set-up of the authority and the preparation of a master plan for the area, which will lead to an estimation of the nature and extent of the further investment required to rejuvenate the area. One of the prime areas that needs to be addressed is that surrounding the Armadale railway station, which is an extensive landholding. It will be a major focal point of some of the activity. The area for which the authority will be responsible will cover the core of Armadale and a couple of outlying areas with capacity for redevelopment and reinvestment. A coordination authority for that area will assist with future investment. Although the extent of that investment remains to be seen, it will have a positive effect on the area.

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Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I am confident it will have a positive effect on the area. I support the department in that. Do I infer correctly that government is anticipating future investment in the development of that infrastructure and, if so, does it anticipate a return on that investment in the long term? The budget papers show an allocation to the East Perth Redevelopment Authority of $6 million for the Northbridge precinct, and an anticipated return of $6 million from the sale of assets. It is a cost-neutral project. Is government anticipating the need for investment in the Armadale precinct and a return on that investment so that in the long term it is a cost-neutral project? Mr FREWER: The allocation of future funding will rely on the outcome of the master plan, so it is difficult to indicate now the nature and extent of a return from that area. As I said earlier, there will be a positive impact on it. In many ways the issue relates to not only financial or physical returns from the infrastructure, but also the intangibles that result from giving the community more confidence and promoting a different sort of development that will lead, hopefully, to spin offs such as more private investment in the area. The Government’s involvement will be seen as a catalyst to promote further private investment. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: These budget papers outline the tangibles not the intangibles. Mr FREWER: That is right. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: Earlier my colleague Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich referred to the Travel Smart program. I was pleased to hear about the success of the trial in South Perth. I have scoured the budget papers for the funding for this financial year and the forward estimates, but I was unsuccessful. Mr BURGESS: Some information is included on page 831 of the Budget Statements. Essentially, the allocation for a three-year program is $10.6 million. I believe that the funding for the immediate financial year is approximately $2.4 million. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I found information on page 831 but not the figures. I understand that the original trial was based on the municipal area of South Perth and the take up will therefore be based in many ways on which municipalities seek to become involved in the program. I am interested in the number of municipalities that have shown an interest in the program and what allocation will be made to meet ongoing interest. Mr BURGESS: The methodology of Travel Smart involves municipal areas. The department has been involved in joint funding with some local governments. An offer was made to local governments some time ago to cofund either full-time or part-time Travel Smart officers. That level of input at a local government level will assist in refining and focusing the program. It will ensure that in all its decisions local government is focused on a good Travel Smart outcome and on supporting green modes of transport whether it be cycling, pedestrian activity or public transport. We aim to keep local government heavily involved. That is part of the reason that the promotion of Travel Smart is directed towards municipal areas. The scheme has been promoted beyond South Perth. It seeks a degree of joint funding from local government. Demand from local government has been excessive so it will be necessary to prioritise the areas that will provide the greatest benefit to the collective community. That will be the methodology for identifying the batting order of the local governments. It will be a matter of assessing the areas that will provide the greatest benefit to the overall community as a result of a change in their current pattern of travel. [5.10 pm] Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I turn to page 833, major achievements for 2000-01. The second dot point refers to the Perth urban rail development project, which from my reading of this includes the south west metropolitan railway to Rockingham and Mandurah. I am wondering why the Government is currently pursuing the completion of the Kwinana Freeway bus lane between the Narrows Bridge and Canning Highway given that the south west metropolitan railway, as I understand it, will eventually occupy the same area. Will the minister explain to me the logic of doing that at this stage? Mr BURGESS: The bus way project has not been ceased. A decision was made to continue the work on stage 1 of what was the previous bus way project on the basis of the benefits it would provide. It will be open and available to bus traffic early next year. Without pre-empting the master plan, initial indications are that that bus way will be in operation and effective and serving the people of the southern suburbs at least until mid 2004. For some couple of years we will see the benefit of that bus way as a bi-directional bus way. It is fair to say that in the master planning process consideration is being given to the option or the possibility of maintaining a component of that bus way, at least perhaps one lane. The people in the immediate suburbs south of Perth - for example in the area surrounding Canning Highway - would then still have the option of a bus priority lane into the city rather than being compelled to transfer to a train system when they have in real terms a relatively short journey on their bus ahead of them. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: There is the obvious utility up to 2004, and then the potential for that work to be integrated into the master plan in the years beyond? Mr BURGESS: That is correct. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E757

Hon E.R.J. DERMER: Further to the south west metropolitan railway plan, what is the current intention for the Mandurah bus station? Mr BURGESS: Work has commenced on that bus station in the form of some site clearance. There has been a delay in the project due to a study that has been under way in that area involving a number of stakeholders, including the local government. Basically a precinct study is being completed around the area of the train-bus interchange of the future. The bus station is sited in the bus-train interchange location, and it is anticipated that that precinct plan work will be completed soon. I cannot give a specific date as to when works will be under way on the bus station, but it is certainly anticipated to be very soon. Hon BARRY HOUSE: My question relates to page 843 and it concerns school bus subsidies for regional transport. If we take a line through the figures from 1999 to the budget estimates for 2001-02, there is a real actual decline from $53.9 million to $46.7 million before it starts to creep up again in the next three years towards $50 million. That is a significant decline for those school bus services in regional areas. How will that be achieved? Will it be achieved by delaying payments to school bus operators, as they are claiming is happening, or by cutting services and making country kids walk to school? Mr HUBBARD: No payments to contractors will be delayed, nor will there be any reduction in services. Those figures indicate an apparent decline because of the reallocation of expenditure in the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. In the previous year, all school bus services, including those operating in the metropolitan region, were funded from the regional transport program. The decline reflects the fact that about $4 million has been transferred to the metropolitan division - which is within the Department of Transport - so that those contracts can be administered by Transperth. It is an apparent decline reflecting that some of the funds have been reallocated, consistent with the reallocation of management responsibilities. The logic behind it was that services in the metropolitan area, particularly those on the fringes, could be integrated over time with Transperth services as they expand. It was thought to be more sensible to have those contracts managed by the same area of the department that was responsible for other services in the metropolitan area. The Minister for Planning and Infrastructure made a statement along the lines that I have just outlined following questions in the lower House. Funding for school bus services has not been reduced, there has been no change in the policies relating to entitlements to school bus services and there will be no delays or withholding of contractor payments. Hon BARRY HOUSE: The logical extension of that argument is that the metropolitan fringe areas now serviced by Transperth will be affected. Is it anticipated that the school bus services provided in those areas will be phased out over the next few years? Mr HUBBARD: It is not something that we can predict accurately. In addition, any changes would be fairly slow. Inevitably, as the built up area expands and Transperth services are extended, some of the existing services will no longer be required. However, that process will be slow. Some rapidly growing fringe areas might be affected, but others might not be affected for many years. Hon LJILJANNA RAVLICH: I refer to the funding of high and wide-load corridors referred to on page 834. Why is the Government spending $14.5 million on high and wide-load corridors? Mr HUBBARD: The budget allocation for that project is justified on the basis of supporting the movement of fabricated metal products manufactured at Jervoise Bay that are of such dimensions that they cannot be transported along normal roads. This project is being undertaken to assist with the movement of fabricated metal products from that area. Obviously that will be a benefit to both the producers and the users of the products. Often the users are involved in the mining industry; so, these large structures must be moved from the production site to the site at which they are to be used. [5.20 pm] Hon PETER FOSS: Am I correct in assuming that the department is contemplating the construction of railway stations between the Narrows Bridge and Canning Bridge, or is it assumed that there will be no opportunity to board trains in that area? If the department is contemplating railway stations, whose job is it to try to locate suitable land that might be considered as part of the master plan? Has the department conducted preliminary searches to determine whether any publicly owned land is available? If there is no publicly owned land, and given the department’s experience of resumptions of land for this type of purpose, has the department any idea what the resumptions might cost? Has the department identified the amount of land needed for railway stations and parking? If the department is not proposing to put any railway stations between the Canning and Narrows Bridges, how will the large numbers of people referred to in the South Perth district get onto the train? Mr FREWER: The issue of the station locations will be resolved through the master planning process, in which a range of social, economic and environmental criteria and land tenure issues will be developed. Currently the issue is open for evaluation as part of that process.

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Hon PETER FOSS: I have a supplementary question. Is the department intending to locate a railway station between the bridges? Was this decision made without knowing whether railway stations could be located there? Mr FREWER: The evaluation of future sites for stations will be carried out as part of the master planning process. At this time we have an open mind. The range of criteria that I mentioned earlier, including train operations, must be examined. Hon ADELE FARINA: Dot point one of the major initiatives on page 829 relates to the formation of a six-man oil response team to act in the event of an oil spill incident under the control of the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Given that the average cost per person prepared to respond to an environmental incident has been reduced by 55 per cent of the previous year’s figure, how will this be achieved? Mr HUBBARD: The change in the figures reflects the fact that the number of people who have been trained to respond to oil spills has increased, so that the pool of people who are now available to respond to an oil spill situation has increased. Underlying the figures, in fact, is an enhanced capacity on the part of the department to employ resources in the event of an oil spill. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: My questions relate to the output measures listed at pages 818, 821 and 823. In each of the tables of output measures there appears to be, in quantity, quality and timeliness, declining expectations between the 1999-2000 actual outputs and the target outputs for 2001-02 in the order of 100 per cent to 70 per cent. I am sure there is no intention to have a 30 per cent lower measure of outputs. I am sure there is a satisfactory explanation. What is it? Mr FREWER: Could the member explain further? Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: The table at page 819 shows a line item under “Quality”. It reads - Extent to which WAPC committees are satisfied with the quality of land use planning advice for Metropolitan Perth. The 1999-2000 actual is 90 per cent and the 2001-02 target is 70 per cent. It suggests lower expectations. I am sure the department and the minister do not have lowered expectations. Please explain what the figures mean. Mr FREWER: The figure of 70 per cent sets a benchmark against which the other figures can be measured. The actual for 1999-2000 is 90 per cent, and for 2000-01 is 96 per cent. The figure of 70 per cent is a benchmark against which the other figures of satisfaction rating are compared. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: If a rate of 90 per cent as an actual can be achieved, why is there a benchmark two years later of 70 per cent? Should not the benchmark be what has already been achieved? It reads as though expectations are being lowered. Mr FREWER: In measuring performance over time it is important to have a constant benchmark so increases and decreases can be measured. The figure of 70 per cent merely sets a standard that can measure increases in performance. Hon ADELE FARINA: I refer to the major initiatives for 2001-02 at page 825 of the Budget Statements. Dot points 16 and 17 relate to the Peel region scheme and the Bunbury region scheme. Will the parliamentary secretary provide details of the current status of those regional schemes? Mr FREWER: The Peel region scheme has gone through an extensive consultation period. The report has been completed to the extent of having public submissions and hearings. It has been forwarded to the Minister for the Environment for an assessment of the final environmental issues associated with the scheme. The completion of the assessment is imminent. It will be sent back to the Western Australian Planning Commission and the minister for approval. It is anticipated that the Peel region scheme will be placed before Parliament in the middle of next year, perhaps by July or August. The Bunbury region scheme was advertised earlier this year. Extensive consultations were held and many submissions were received. The environmental and planning aspects are being assessed. It is anticipated that the scheme will be presented to the south west region planning committee in December and to the WAPC in early 2002. It will be referred to the Environmental Protection Authority. The scheme should be ready for tabling in Parliament by the spring session of next year. [5.30 pm] Hon PETER FOSS: Mr Frewer, have you spoken in public consultations about the possibility of two stations in the area between Canning Bridge and the Narrows Bridge. What effect would two stations have on the proposed savings in travelling time of 12 minutes from Mandurah to Perth? It has been touted that the new route would save 12 minutes of travelling time. What would be the effect of that increased travelling time on the calculations of the number of passengers who will use that route? It has been suggested that the reduced travelling time will cause a commensurate increase in the number of passengers. Mr FREWER: Those proposals require modelling, and we will take that question on notice. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E759

Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I refer to the major achievements on page 826, which reports the integrated transport plans at various locations throughout metropolitan Perth to reduce costs and improve land use. I would be grateful for further information as to what is entailed in the plans and the progress to date that has been achieved in each of the areas where they have been applied so far. I would also like information about further applications of this planning system. Mr HUBBARD: The integrated transport plans are developed by a planning unit within the department. It is intended to develop 10 such plans during the budget year in addition to the completion of the integrated transport plan for the Fremantle and Cottesloe corridors, West Vincent and Kewdale. Plans will be completed for central Stirling, the east corridor, the Perth to Guildford corridor, the inner south-east and south-west coastal corridor, Joondalup and the City of Swan. Each of these plans studies a discrete area of the metropolitan region. The planning process considers all transport modes, infrastructure and services and projected land use. It is an attempt to provide a set of arrangements for transport that would best meet the interests of that region and assist in meeting the metropolitan transport strategy goals to reduce car travel and increase public transport use. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: I refer to the third last dot point of the major metropolitan planning initiatives for 2001-02 on page 820. It states that the review of state industrial buffer statement of planning policy No 4 will be completed. Is that built on the 1993 industrial buffer statement released by the Environmental Planning Authority, or is it a separate planning statement? Mr FREWER: The review is based on the statement of planning policy, which was released by the WAPC in 1995 or 1996. It was built into the statement of planning policy as a review mechanism. The committee that is reviewing that policy had its first meeting yesterday. Hon DERRICK TOMLINSON: Is it separate from the previously published EPA statement? Mr FREWER: The EPA statement is a set of guidelines that relate to separation or buffer distances from particular uses. The statement of planning policy is about the way in which mechanisms could be applied, how those distances could be applied and under what circumstances. [5.40 pm] Forest Products Commission, $1 886 000 - Hon George Cash, Chairman. Hon Kim Chance, Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. Dr P. Biggs, General Manager, Forest Products Commission. Mr G. Downes, Divisional Manager, Corporate Services, Forest Products Commission. Mr K. Low, Policy Adviser, Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. The CHAIRMAN: On behalf of the Legislative Council Estimates Committee, I welcome you to today’s hearing. Government agencies and departments have an important role and duty in assisting Parliament to scrutinise the budget papers on behalf of the people of Western Australia. The Committee values that assistance. It will greatly assist Hansard if when referring to the Budget Statements volumes or the consolidated fund estimates, members give the page number, item, program, amount, and so on in preface to their questions. If supplementary information is to be provided, I seek your cooperation in ensuring that it is delivered to the Committee’s clerk within five working days of receipt of the questions. An example of the required Hansard style for the documents has been provided to your advisers. May I remind those members of the public in attendance that only accredited media representatives may take notes. However, full Hansard transcripts will be available to the public within a week of the close of these hearings. The Committee reminds agency representatives to respond to questions in a succinct manner and to limit the extent of personal observations. At this time, I ask each of the witnesses whether they have read, understood and completed the Information for Witnesses form. WITNESSES: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: Do all the witnesses fully understand the meaning and effect of the provisions of that document? WITNESSES: Yes. Hon PETER FOSS: The minister probably knows that one of my major concerns is the amount of forest resource, particularly jarrah, available to both large and small mills in the south west. My concern is that a number of things the Government has done, which it was not necessarily obliged to do as part of its election promises, have had an adverse effect on the south west community. The two matters in which I am particularly interested are the inclusion of regenerated forest in national parks - I realise that at this stage it is only proposed, but it seems to have the same effect whether it is proposed or in existence - and the one per cent moratorium. There may be some overlap in the areas of the

E760 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] blocks that are concerned. I have here a list of what I understand to be the regenerated forest that has been included in national parks. I would like to know whether my list of the blocks is correct. Hon KIM CHANCE: Certainly. Hon PETER FOSS: It has been indicated to me that that represents 12 000 hectares of regenerated forest. What is the amount of timber that could be developed from that forest per year, on a sustainable basis, if it were made available for logging? Hon KIM CHANCE: While we are considering that list, I will deal with the generality of the two questions the member asked and then the specifics relating to that list. Certainly, some regenerated forest is within the boundaries of areas that are proposed for inclusion in national parks. One with which I am personally familiar is Greater Beedelup, where there is a significant area of new and up to about 20-year-old regenerated forest. It was an issue that we considered jointly, and was one that ultimately I felt was a reasonable inclusion within Greater Beedelup, because the boundaries of the national park would not have made sense had that regenerated area not been included. However, it was always, and remains, my view that in the formation of the boundaries of national parks, it is necessary to give proper consideration to the shape of those parks and the sense that they will make; that there is room for some trading on the boundaries to ensure that the shape of the national parks makes sense and that they are reasonably economical to take care of; and that there will be occasions on which areas of regenerated forest may well be included within the national park, even though that might not even be sought by the proponents of the national park. For example, the regenerated area runs through the centre of Greater Beedelup - I think the member would be familiar with the broad shape of Greater Beedelup. It would make a nonsense of the park not to include that regenerated area in the park, even though it may have no significant value to the park itself. However, I hope that we will have a degree of trading on the boundaries to ensure that they make sense for everybody. It was always clear, from a reading of the Government’s policy on that matter, that one per cent of old-growth forest would be made available to allow the Government to honour its commitments to meet the contractual demands in the period to the end of 2003. So far, that one per cent has not been required. We are now ready to respond to the specific questions on regenerated forests in national parks. [5.50 pm] Dr BIGGS: Without the benefit of maps, I will use my judgment. It appears that all the listed blocks would contain forest that was not old-growth but of various degrees of regeneration. Although I do not have the figure for the sustained yield for this list, if it is in excess of 12 000 hectares, it could involve quantities of about 10 000 cubic metres of jarrah sawlog and a lesser amount of karri sawlog each year. Depending on the age of the regeneration, that may not have a large impact on the short-term sustained yield, but it would have an effect on the long-term sustained yield. Hon PETER FOSS: Could I have the answers to that question on notice? In other words, what blocks are contained in the proposals, what area of land is involved, and what is the sustainable yield? I have asked the Department of Conservation and Land Management the same question, and I hope somebody can give me an answer. Hon KIM CHANCE: We will undertake to attempt to provide an answer to the member. The Committee needs to be aware that there are two impediments that could prevent the Forest Products Commission from supplying that information. First, we would rely on assistance from another agency to obtain that information - the Department of Conservation and Land Management. That information may or may not be available from CALM and we are not in a position to know that. The second caveat, in my view, is that the boundaries of those parks are yet to be finally determined. Any information would only be indicative - it would indicate the state of the proposed national parks as they stand and could not be regarded as a final answer. We undertake to use our best efforts to provide that information. However, I do not think we would be able to do that within the normal five-day period. Hon PETER FOSS: If I get the answer from either the minister or CALM, I will be happy. The CHAIRMAN: The minister has given the Committee an undertaking to provide that information if possible. Hon PETER FOSS: I refer to the minister’s answer to a previous question in which he said that there is no need to rely on the one per cent to satisfy contracts. Hon KIM CHANCE: We have not so far. Hon PETER FOSS: That is a somewhat simplistic approach, because current contracts can be supplied by drawing down on reserves of regenerated forest, which would otherwise be available in the next forest plan. That is going into overdraft, if I can put it that way. The contracts can be supplied by using future resources. Is that not somewhat simplistic? The minister spoke about trading on the boundaries. Part of that might be to trade the regenerated forest for reserves in that one per cent. On that point, I long to see the URS Forestry report. Both sides of the House are extremely interested in receiving a copy of that report. I know the minister has had it for some time because he has read from it in the House. It would be handy if members could see a copy of that report. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E761

Hon KIM CHANCE: For the benefit of those members who are not familiar with the URS Forestry report, the Government commissioned a report from URS Forestry on the values of the moratorium blocks; that is, the Wellington blocks and Palmer, Leach and Helms. I acknowledge that the first part of the question is based on a cogent argument. It would be correct in the event that contract holders were cutting to their full contract levels. They are not doing that. We would have had a real difficulty that would have probably forced us into the one per cent area had the contract holders been calling upon their full requirements. In the event that they have not, the situation has not arisen. I read the draft of the URS Forestry report some time ago. Like Hon Christine Sharp, I wait with bated breath for the final release of that report. Regrettably, the final version is not in my hands. Hon ADELE FARINA: One of the works in progress on page 297 is the forest enhancement program. What are the objectives and the benefits of the forest enhancement program? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will have to bounce that question across to either Dr Biggs or Mr Downes, because it involves a question of some balance. Dr BIGGS: The forest enhancement program is primarily a work and employment strategy that formed part of the Regional Forest Agreement. It addresses a number of objectives, including social, silviculture and fire protection outcomes. It was to employ displaced timber workers on a short-term basis on forest silvicultural works, which would also assist in increasing the growth rate of regenerated forests. That is to be achieved by thinning over-stocked jarrah regrowth stands and releasing the crop trees from competition. There are also some elements in providing aesthetic enhancement of regrowth stands, such as those around the town of Collie. Fire protection objectives are also achieved by employing displaced timber workers as seasonal firefighters in the Department of Conservation and Land Management. Hon ADELE FARINA: Could Dr Biggs detail the areas in which the forest enhancement program is operating? Dr BIGGS: I do not have the area statements, but I can indicate that the works are planned through a range of forest regions from Mundaring, Jarrahdale, Dwellingup and Collie to Pemberton-Manjimup. Out of the $500 000 expenditure on the program, $50 000 is tentatively allocated in the Mundaring area and $150 000 in each of the other three regions. Hon ADELE FARINA: What specific employment benefits does the forest enhancement program offer? [6.00 pm] Dr BIGGS: Specifically, it would provide short-term employment, while other long-term employment opportunities are being pursued and created in the south west. The program was first brought into operation when the Whittakers Greenbushes mill closed, and several of the workers from Greenbushes were employed in the Department of Conservation and Land Management for a period of months. That allowed those workers and their families to maintain their livelihoods until the new operations at the Greenbushes mill were able to be created. That is the type of operation that would be expected on a needs basis during the year. Hon BARRY HOUSE: Following the regional forest agreement process a buy-out was put in place for the small timber mills. Which timber mills have already exited the industry through that scheme, which have current applications in place, and which are left that might qualify? I understand roughly about a dozen might qualify. Hon KIM CHANCE: I checked with Dr Biggs to see whether there was a scheme prior to the business exit scheme that we are working on now. Hon BARRY HOUSE: I am not sure of the terminology, so the minister may be right. Hon KIM CHANCE: The business exit scheme is currently in operation. The Forest Products Commission is now analysing requests for proposals. The situation will be clarified once that process has been completed. We probably can give the member some indicative figures, but as we are in the middle of a cycle the figures are incomplete and do not indicate the final position. Perhaps Dr Biggs can give the member some indicative figures. Those figures do exist. Dr BIGGS: That program is being administered by the Department of Industry and Technology, and we could seek that information from that department. The CHAIRMAN: The minister has undertaken to provide that information in due course. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: I want to follow the line of questioning of Hon Adele Farina on the $500 000 allocated for the forest enhancement program, and ask the minister for more detail. Dr Biggs said that silviculture would take place in jarrah regrowth stands. Is he referring to pole stands or much younger regeneration? I am also keen to know whether he is concerned that either the younger dense regeneration or the pole stands are at significant risk of drought death if there is not improved rainfall during the summer season. Lastly, a commitment in the Australian Labor Party’s old- growth forest election policy was that 35 people would be employed in forest thinning. Surely this figure does not cover that commitment, and how is the commission addressing that commitment? Hon KIM CHANCE: The areas referred to as pole stands are thinned commercially. A judgment is made about the thinning of pole stands when they achieve a certain pole diameter. The poles are among the highest priced timber that

E762 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] comes out of the forest. Those trees that are ultimately destined for Western Power demand high prices. The thinning of younger trees is pre-commercial. That is done simply to allow the forest to develop as it should develop, but in a shorter time frame. I do not know whether Dr Biggs wants to add to that, as the question sought some indication of the proportion. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: Is the program aimed at one or several categories of jarrah regrowth? Dr BIGGS: In general, the program will be aimed at pre-commercial stands. The absence of a market for that type of material prevents a normal commercial operation. I can also answer the member’s question regarding drought death. Although drought in the current climatic condition is a concern, jarrah is not as affected because of its deep root system and access to ground water. We are not seeing the signs of drought stress that we might see in plantation species. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: Reference was made to pre-commercial stands. What age are those stands? Is that post- Bradshaw or pre-mid 1980s regeneration? Dr BIGGS: The program is aimed at the older pre-commercial stands rather than the very young stands. I imagine that would include the 30 to 50-year-old stands rather than the 15-year-old stands. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: I also asked about the commitment to employ 35 people in forest thinning. How will the commission meet this commitment? Is this partly covered by the forest enhancement program? Clearly, $500 000 will not provide for the employment of 35 people. Hon KIM CHANCE: That money will fund 25, not 35, positions. I acknowledge that the Labor Party policy commits to 35; however, we require only 25 people. It is an end-of-term commitment. I am not sure whether we will need 35, but that is the long-term plan. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: Is that funded by this program? Hon KIM CHANCE: That is correct. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: You alluded to the work done by the Whittakers Ltd employees who were stood down at the beginning of this program. Much of that work took place in recreation sites. Given that this program is smaller than the original commitment, will most of the work be silvicultural, which is important, or will it concentrate on recreation sites? Hon KIM CHANCE: The people employed in a similar role in earlier schemes carried out work on behalf of the Department of Conservation and Land Management, which had a much broader charter than does the Forest Products Commission. This work will be carried out exclusively for and on behalf of the Forest Products Commission and, therefore, it will be entirely silvicultural. It is a reasonable question. [6.10 pm] Hon PETER FOSS: We have often spoken in this Chamber of the minimum quantities of jarrah necessary to allow reasonable survival for the industry. Hon Kim Chance and I have agreed on 180 000 cubic metres of jarrah, although I think the industry would like to see 190 000 cubic metres. All the minister has been able to offer is 140 000 cubic metres and an indication that he will look somewhere else. From what I have heard it does not look as though he will find anything else. Can the minister realistically tell the millers and the other people in the timber industry that more than 140 000 cubic metres will be available? If so, how much will it be and when will it be available? Assuming he does not believe more than 140 000 cubic metres will be available, what impact will that have on the industry? Has the minister been able to calculate what combination of mills must go out of business, as they undoubtedly will? I have not referred to karri but the same situation will arise with karri. The figures the minister mentioned necessarily mean that large numbers of people will go out of business. Has the minister calculated how many mills will be affected, including the mills that handle combinations of both karri and jarrah? Hon KIM CHANCE: At this stage 140 000 cubic metres as an indicative figure of available jarrah in the long term is correct, although we cannot be certain of that until completion of the forest management plan. Hon PETER FOSS: Does that mean it may decrease, increase or stay at 140 000 cubic metres? Hon KIM CHANCE: It could, but according to our best estimate 140 000 cubic metres is the core figure. I am very careful to use the term “core figure” because as we have also said in this Chamber the indicative figure of 140 000 cubic metres is exclusive of three factors: firstly, what yield may come out of the moratorium process once we have examined the URS Forestry report; secondly, step-downs, which could yield significant amounts as long as a conclusion to the process is reached as early as possible - I will go into that in more detail when I take up Hon Peter Foss’s invitation to comment on karri; and, thirdly, the reserve boundaries. Hon Peter Foss asked me to speculate on the outcome, and it must be noted that I am only speculating. The estimated amount is about 175 000 cubic metres of jarrah at the end of that process. However, 140 000 cubic metres is an [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E763 equilibrium estimate for what I think will emerge as a sustainable yield from the amount of state forest that is available. That is exclusive of the issue of the boundaries and the moratorium areas. It is more important for us to resolve the issue of karri in large part than the issue of jarrah. The volumes of karri that would be available fall much more substantially than the volumes of jarrah pro rata to their contract volume. The effect of that is that the step-down benefit is significantly higher simply because of the suddenness of the reduction in available volume. For example, if a resolution were reached by the end of this calendar year, after taking account of his step-down, a miller who may be awarded an agreement for a contract at 30 000 cubic metres of karri would be able to cut through to 2014 closer to 45 000 cubic metres of karri. That would be possible because the step-down reward, if I can call it that, would be around 50 per cent due to the sudden impact of the total reduction in volumes. The rewards for the step down are considerable. The impact in jarrah, of course, is far less significant. However, it is still important, and the difference between 140 000 cubic metres and 170 000 cubic metres is substantially made up from step-down reward. Hon PETER FOSS: I also asked the minister if he had made any estimates of what he thought would be the resultant size of the industry after this. Presumably he has done some strategic planning on what he thinks will be the case. What sort of industry does the minister see as to number of mills, large mills, small mills and how many people exiting? Hon KIM CHANCE: I thought I had answered that question, although the member may have added a bit to it. The answer I gave was that it is my own view that that figure will come out at something like 170 000 to 175 000. Hon PETER FOSS: The minister is talking about quantity; I am talking about people. Hon KIM CHANCE: I referred to 140 000 cubic metres as equilibrium. At 140 000 it is the Government’s view that the allowance that we made for the $123 million assistance packages actually balance out. Any number smaller than that would put the budget under stress; any number greater than that would take stress off the budget. From that I think we can deduce that at 140 000 or above, the operations around Dean Mill - that is, Dean Mill and the Manjimup production centre - would have a viable future. That is essentially the first result of moving away from that 140 000 equilibrium figure. Once we go below about 110 000 cubic metres actual, not indicative, there is very little point in maintaining the industry at all; it starts to run out of critical mass at about that point. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: On page 297, under “Works in Progress”, we have an estimated expenditure of $1.3 million for the maritime pine extension. My recollection is that this program has been in place for some time. I would be grateful for further information as to the nature and the progress of this program. Hon KIM CHANCE: Again we have government members asking really difficult questions. I might draft a set of questions for them next year. There are two forms of answer to this. One relates to the internal workings of the commission; the other is a somewhat political answer. I will ask Dr Biggs to go through the answer to that question in its administrative sense and then I will provide the more political slant. [6.20 pm] Dr BIGGS: The figures in the budget papers refer to a plantation program that was previously approved under the earlier Government and was completed in the winter season that we have just finished. The Forest Products Commission has made a submission to the Government to continue the program over the next few years as part of a strategy to stimulate further external investment by timber investors, greenhouse gas emitters, salinity funds and the like. It is designed to develop the required scale of plantation in the agricultural zone that will create both regional employment and environmental benefits. That proposal is still before the Government and Treasury. For that reason, it is not shown in these papers. Hon KIM CHANCE: The other part of the question relates to the State’s negotiations with the Commonwealth Government on the national action plan on salinity and water quality. It is one of the Commonwealth’s requirements that States participate on a dollar-for-dollar basis, using only new money. The difficulty for the State ironically arises from the fact that, with great credit to the former Government, the State has been proactive in salinity and water quality issues, particularly since 1996. Expenditure in that area increased from about $15 million prior to 1996 to almost $40 million by 1999-2000. Had the national action plan on salinity and water quality been introduced in 1996, we would have had no difficulty matching that money. We are not the only State in this position; Victoria is facing the same problem. The Commonwealth is stating that, having found about $40 million a year, the State must now find another $22 million, which it will match. The answer is political because the State is now somewhat unwilling to commit money in the budget for that purpose. This is a purpose that will be traded off against commonwealth new money, because, as soon as it appears in the budget, it becomes old money. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I am interested in the employment implications of the program for those currently employed and particularly with regard to the minister’s advice about negotiations with the Commonwealth Government. What might the outcomes be?

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Hon KIM CHANCE: The negotiations about the national action plan have been going on for some time, although they have stalled while the Commonwealth Government is in caretaker mode. I am not the only minister involved in this; obviously my colleague the Minister for the Environment has a very keen interest. Negotiations have been proceeding at both ministerial and officer levels, especially of late, with rather more dispatch than is apparent on the surface. I was encouraged when I attended the first meeting of the Natural Resource Management Ministerial Council and had discussions with Senator Robert Hill and Warren Truss and their people. They appeared keen to get the issue resolved. Ultimately that was not possible. However, Senator Hill in particular appeared to acknowledge the difficulties that Western Australia has, having recently put up the new money and then basically been penalised for it. Obviously, it is an issue that I am discussing with my federal colleagues in the Australian Labor Party. Only today I discussed the matter with the federal shadow minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry. I do not know whether the federal Opposition will be a lot easier to deal with than the coalition; however, it understands at least where we are coming from. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: I have a supplementary question. The CHAIRMAN: Order! We are running out of time. Hon Barry House and Hon Christine Sharp want to ask questions and that will take as long as it has to. If the Committee is happy, we will reach Hon Ed Dermer later, but we are battling for time now. Hon BARRY HOUSE: My question is brief. What role is the Forest Products Commission playing in the process of determining the site and other factors of the plantation timber chip mill in the Donnybrook area? In particular, what are the minister’s and the commission’s views of the site? Hon KIM CHANCE: I do not believe the commission plays any role. Hon BARRY HOUSE: Is the commission not even asked for advice? Hon KIM CHANCE: It may be asked for advice on logistics. I shall ask Dr Biggs to deal with that part of the question. Bearing in mind that it is a private enterprise operation, the commission is most certainly not central to the policy decisions about the siting. The Minister for Planning and Infrastructure is the key minister in the matter. However, the commission’s involvement, to the extent it has existed, has been simply to provide some technical advice about whether some sites may be more suitable than others. Dr Biggs confirms that as the situation. Hon PETER FOSS: Whom did you advise? Hon KIM CHANCE: We are concerned only that the chip mill be built and that the delays in building be minimised. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: Does the minister consider adequate the revenue to the State under the Wood Processing (WESFI) Agreement Act from the resource of Pinus radiata at $12.90 a cubic metre? Does the minister intend renegotiating the revenue? Hon KIM CHANCE: What a wonderful question, Mr Chairman, to ask a minister whether the revenue is adequate! No, it is not adequate. However, I will defer to Dr Biggs the matter of whether it is all that we can commercially realise. Dr BIGGS: The rate referred to was purely for the industrial wood from the plantations. The sawlog resource, obviously, has a higher rate of stumpage and the total revenue to the Forest Products Commission is a result of both of those resources. The Forest Products Commission and other agencies are pursuing vigorously the opportunity for a laminated veneer lumber plant, which would also source higher value logs from the Pinus pinaster resource to the north of Perth. That would add to the revenue stream and, as a result, the total of high-value logs and those residue logs would be sufficient to manage the pine resource and provide a profit component for further investment or return to the Treasury. Mechanisms exist in the Act for price variations; however, we must be aware that Western Australian industries compete with similar industries in New Zealand, the eastern States of Australia and South America to access markets in Japan. We must take into account the viability of our Western Australian industries as part of our pricing structure. [6.30 pm] Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: Is the minister aware that the resource we are referring to is called industrial grade - but that is questionable because the specifications are fairly rigorous for the Wesfi plant? The plant requires a very high quality industrial grade product. Is the minister aware that the resource was identified as having a minimum value of $17 a cubic metre in 1993? Hon KIM CHANCE: I am not aware of that. If it were worth a minimum of $17 a cubic metre in 1993, one cannot automatically project that it is now worth more than $12 a cubic metre. The softwood industry is an intensely competitive industry and it would be a grave mistake to assume that prices for products like this go up automatically. As a primary producer for 26 years, I am very aware that commodity prices fall as well as rise. Hon CHRISTINE SHARP: In the context of the collapse in the domestic sawlog market due to the policy decisions we referred to earlier, it would suggest that a lot of the resource could provide far higher returns to the State. [Thursday, 18 October 2001] E765

Dr BIGGS: I refer again to the schedule of sawlog stumpages. The resource that will replace the native forests sawn timber will come from pine sawlogs. The levels of stumpages are much higher than we have talked about. The larger logs could command as much as $60 a cubic metre. I am speaking from memory, as I do not have the schedule in front of me. The commission will work with the pine industry to ensure that maximum use is made of pine timber in replacing structural grades in the housing market. Hon KIM CHANCE: Hon Christine Sharp is clearly not satisfied with the thrust of the answer. We have provided all we can in the context of this Committee. I invite her to discuss the matter with us at the conclusion of these proceedings so we may be able to satisfy her concerns. The CHAIRMAN: Hon Peter Foss and Hon Ed Dermer have indicated that they have questions. If they guarantee they will be brief and get brief answers, I will allow them to be asked. Hon PETER FOSS: I have some questions about exit package proposals. People are interested to know how much money will flow out for the rest of this financial year. From the assessment of the proposals and the rate at which they are being handled, can I have some idea of the rate at which the money will go into the community? What will happen to people who have made submissions that are not accepted? If they are not accepted, will the cost of the unsuccessful submission be included in the exit package? What is the average cost of the submissions? Hon KIM CHANCE: I will try to give the member some preliminary answers, although I may take the questions on notice. We anticipate that the process will effectively conclude in three months. There may be people left on the margin that we have to deal with, but the vast majority of cases can be dealt with from a period beginning in three months time. The shutter will come down then on the request for proposals. There is a lot of support for that. People are sick of the process as far as it has gone. That would mean that a substantial amount of the business exit money would be paid in the current financial year. Hon PETER FOSS: Will the cost of unsuccessful submissions be included? Hon KIM CHANCE: Perhaps the larger part of that question will have to be taken on notice. At this stage, in order to minimise those costs, the Forests Products Commission is going through a process of conducting a brief analysis of the core elements of the proposition that the proponent may bring to it. The commission would then be able to give advice to the proponent on whether it would be pointless to spend a large amount of money to put together a proposition or whether it would encourage the proponent to go ahead and do just that, and indicate to the proponent what form their proposition should take so that it would have the maximum chance of success. It would be a bit game of me to suggest how much that would cost, but I would not be surprised if a proposition of that nature cost in the order of $4 000 or $5 000. Hon E.R.J. DERMER: The further matters that I wish to raise about the maritime pine program would take longer than we have available for this evening’s hearings. Therefore, I will raise it with the minister at a later time. The CHAIRMAN: I thank Dr Biggs, Mr Gary Downes and Mr Keith Low for their attendance and assistance before the committee. I also thank Mr Paul Grant, Ms Sarah Galbraith and Lisa Hanna for their assistance as well as the other officers who have provided assistance during this week’s hearing. Committee adjourned at 6.36 pm ______

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION

(Including questions on notice.)

NOTE: Information that is publicly available is not included in the Supplementary Information.

Division 12: Agriculture - Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: Is the superannuation component of the 2001-02 budget on page 245, maintaining the fund that was put in place by the coalition Government, or is this a Treasury allocation? Answer: The Department of Agriculture obtained an actuarial assessment from the Government Employees Superannuation Board (GESB) to determine superannuation expense estimates for the forward years. The department provided these estimates to Treasury as part of the budget process. Question: Hon W.N. Stretch asked: Has the agency given any financial assistance to the New Zealand inspired topo- Climate data-collection programs in the south west, and if so, what assistance has been given, and when? Answer: The Department of Agriculture has been working with rural communities and producers on integrated land use planning for many years. Their work has greatly helped producers move towards a more sustainable form of agriculture. This work will remain a priority of the department for the future. The topoclimate approach to land use planning involves identifying and mapping climate, soil and water resources, matching crops to the most suitable sites within the region, and developing marketing opportunities for existing and new products for niche and export markets. There is nothing new to this approach and something which the Department of Agriculture has been undertaking for many years. The New Zealand consultants Topoclimate Surveys Pty Ltd prepared a feasibility study and business plan for the Warren-Blackwood region in March 2001. The Department of Agriculture and South West Development Commission (SWDC) have jointly supported the formation of a regional steering committee to develop a strategic action plan, identifying projects and regional and local support structures needed to implement the Topoclimate approach in the Warren-Blackwood region. All six shires in the region have endorsed the Topoclimate project approach. The steering committee has requested additional details from the Department of Agriculture on how this project could be implemented, and will consider these at the next meeting planned for end October 2001. The full Topoclimate project suggested by Topoclimate Surveys Pty Ltd is estimated to cost $14 million. The Warren- Blackwood Steering Committee is currently considering an alternate approach developed by the Department of Agriculture that is estimated to cost in the vicinity of $4 million over three years. Funding for this project has not been identified yet, and funding applications will be prepared jointly by SWDC and Department of Agriculture for both State and Commonwealth regional development programs. Question: Hon W.N. Stretch asked: Is this work regarded as of core importance or is it best left to proponents of projects that may make use of such data? Answer: Topoclimate proposes to provide detailed information uniformly across the region, however this is not cost effective as it may not be used in most cases. There is an argument that the detailed data collection and analyses should be collected by the proponents of specific projects. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: For the Department of Agriculture, the total cost of outputs has increased by $13.5 million from 2000-01 to 2001-02 (page 228). There is a large budgeted increase in revenues by $25.394 million from 2000-01 to 2001-02 (page 228). Total consolidated funds however have had a reduction from the previous year, but remained virtually static with other previous years. The 2000-01 year had a significantly higher appropriation of $165 million, in part due to grants/subsidies. Effectively the budget has reduced from the budgeted amount in 2000-01 of $139.165 million to $135.870 million for 2001-02 ($3.295 million) (page 228). Please state what effect these changes to the budget will have on programs and how will the large increase in revenues be achieved? Answer: State Government departments were made aware, prior to this budget, of the need to manage with a reduced consolidated funds allocation in 2001-02 and the Department of Agriculture developed a strategy to operate under a reduced CF allocation. The strategy targeted savings at lower priority areas to minimise the impact on services. The areas affected are - E830 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

• Reduced expenditure where it is outside the core functions of the agency eg. Cease funding overseas marketing and subsequent cost reductions in the Meat Standards Australia project; cessation of revegetation grants programs that have been running for many years and have largely served their purpose. • Reduce management costs and complexity across the agency eg. by amalgamating the Cereals and Pulse and Oils Seeds Programs into a single Grains Program, amalgamating the Meat and Dairy Programs, amalgamating New Industries and Trade and Development, creating increased efficiencies in Corporate and Program Services functions. • Refining industry consultation, liaison and management processes. • Rationalise infrastructure where possible. Infrastructure management plans are currently being developed for each region to determine the regional infrastructure requirements of the agency. A revised policy and procedure on vehicle use has also been developed to improve vehicle utilisation. • Reduced activity in service delivery. Regrettably some reductions in some project activity will result. A key aim of the strategy is to minimise impacts in this area and only lower priority areas have been affected. • Some savings were also possible in the Dairy Processing Incentive Scheme without impacting on the farm business support components of the Dairy Assistance Package. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: How will the identified increase in revenue be achieved? Answer: The increase of $25.394 million has come about due to - APB appropriation now shown with Department of Agriculture, Commonwealth funded Exceptional Circumstances funding, and Adverse Seasonal Conditions Assistance Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: The Sustainable Rural Development Program has a budgeted increase in operating revenue of just over $9 million. Where are these funds derived from (page 234)? Answer: These funds are primarily derived from the - • Commonwealth for the FarmBis Scheme ($3.6m), and • State component of Rural Business Development Cooperation (RBDC) funding for Adverse Seasonal Conditions Assistance ($4.6m). Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: In the budget briefing it was stated that there will be no increase in the funding of the State Salinity Action Plan. This will remain at $10 million. Why then is the Government closing the WA Landcare Trust when this could be used as a vehicle to raise funds? Answer: The Landcare Trust has not been successful in raising new moneys for landcare or salinity. The money received by the trust has largely been money already available to the community and dedicated to a specific purpose which is now being channelled through the trust. New discretionary money raised ($8,600) has been significantly less than the administrative costs of the trust. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: The service delivery agreement is significantly reduced from $30.704 million in 2000-01 to $3.908 million in 2004-05 (page 245). Please explain the difference? Answer: The Service Delivery Agreement reduction from $30.704 million in 2000-01 to $3.908 million in 2004-05 is shown below - 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 APB 19,301 3,966 4,502 4,118 3,908 RBDC 11,403 23,642 4,851 756 30,704 7,608 9,353 4,874 3,908 APB: Decrease between 2000-01 and 2001-02 relates to CF Appropriations being transferred to the Department of Agriculture. RBDC: Increase between 2000-01 and 2001-02 relates to additional funding for the Exceptional Circumstances (EC) package. In 2002-03, the decrease relates to a reduction in the EC package, and the wind up of specific activities funded by RBDC which include FarmBis, South Coast Strategy, Natural Resource Adjustment Scheme, Progress Rural and Ovine Johnes. The Gascoyne Murchison Strategy will be wound up during 2003-04. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: Multiperil Crop Insurance receives $800 000 in funding, significantly less than the pre-election promise of $2.5 million (page 227). Please state what effect this will have on the project. Answer: The original undertaking was that a feasibility study would be conducted of the multi peril crop insurance concept. Originally that was to cost $2.5 million. In the last several months there has been work done by a team on that [15 - 18 October 2001] E831 concept and the indications are that the costs will not be $2.5 million but very much less. The current indications are a half-a-million dollars this year and a further $300 000 next year, although there have been commitments made that should that work require further resources, those resources will be allocated. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: The Government has introduced a Rural Leadership Program (Community Builders) from 2002-03 with an allocation of $250 000 (totalling $750 000 over three years). This is effectively continuing Progress Rural. Why is the program discontinued and then restarted? What is the effect of a $250 000 reduction of the pre-election commitment of $1 million (page 227)? Answer: (a) The Progress Rural WA Program comprised six separate activities, one of which was the Rural Leadership Program. Funding for Progress Rural and the Rural Leadership Program ceased in 2000-01. However, funding of the Government’s election commitment of a rural leadership program will not commence until the 2002-03 year. (b) The program is extended over four years from 2002-03 for a total cost of $1 million. There is, therefore, no reduction in the pre-election commitment. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: Five Regional Landcare Coordinators will be funded for $375 000 for three years from 2002-03. Please explain the impact of a reduced commitment, with the pre-election promise being $1.5 million (page 227). Answer: The program is for four years at $375 000 per year starting in 2002-03. There is, therefore, no reduction in the pre-election commitment. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: Reduction of 120 FTE staff from 1 704 in 2000-01 to 1 584 in 2001-02 (page 245). In which district offices have staff been cut and by how many? Answer: The table of staff changes by office was tabled at the committee session. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: Reduction in Agriculture Protection Board staff from 560 in 2000-01 to 538 in 2001-02 (page 239). In which district offices have staff been cut and by how many? Answer: These staff reductions are incorporated in the table provided. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: In the budget briefing a statewide infrastructure rationalisation to the value of $200 000 is to occur. Which Agriculture and APB offices are to be closed and what impact does this have on staff? Answer: (a) Pinjarra Office, Harvey Office, part of Mt Barker Research Station and Busselton Office is being reviewed. (b) The main impact on staff is - (i) changed commuter conditions (ii) increased effectiveness in achieving organisational outcomes. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: The Government has substantially altered the APB budget in the operating revenues. The estimated actual Total Revenue for 2000-01 was $2.357 million, whereas this budget year states $14.317 million. As this is predominantly in User Charges and Fees, please explain where this revenue is derived from (page 258)? Answer: As a result of the new arrangement for the Consolidated Fund Appropriation transfer to the Department of Agriculture, an amount has been included in the 2001-02 budget and forward estimates for services received free of charge from the Department of Agriculture. The Agriculture Protection Board will utilise the resources of the Department of Agriculture to achieve Agriculture Protection Board outcomes. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: In the Department of Agriculture budget, cost of the outcome Agricultural Resource Protection has decreased by $1.306 million from estimated actual in 2000-01 to 2001-02 budget (page 228). Please explain what impact this has on programs in regional areas? Answer: There will be minimal impact on programs in regional areas due to the reduction of $1.306 million. The difference as indicated came about as a result of increased spending in 2000-01 on the locust program. The budget estimate for 2001-02 has in fact increased by $424 000 relative to the 2000-01 budget. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: There is a substantial reduction in salaries and wages. The 2000-01 estimated actual of $6.781 million, to the budget 2001-02 $1.110 million. This is just over a $5.5 million reduction in salaries and wages. A similar sized reduction has occurred in supplies and services with $7.494 million in 2000-01 to $2.015 million in 2001-02 (page 260). Please explain what impact this cut will have on program delivery (page 260)?

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Answer: The reduction in payments for salaries, wages, supplies and services relates to the Consolidated Fund Appropriation being paid directly to the Department of Agriculture as per the Machinery of Government recommendations. This will have minimal impact on program delivery. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: A major program administered by the Rural Business Development Corporation, FarmBis is now being run by the Department of Agriculture. Please state why this program has been transferred, and have the appropriate resources been given to the Department of Agriculture to administer FarmBis? Answer: FarmBis is a partnership between the Western Australian and Commonwealth Governments based on a financial input of dollar for dollar. The RBDC did not have the matching dollars, but Department of Agriculture was able to match the Commonwealth funding of $20 million for 2001-04. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: The Machinery of Government Taskforce has recommended that the activities of RAFCOR be fully absorbed into the Department of Agriculture. As this would require legislative change, please state when it is the Government’s intention to introduce a Bill to Parliament? Answer: The Agriculture Management Bill, which will incorporate into the Department of Agriculture the functions of RAFCOR (now Rural Business Development Corporation), Agriculture Protection Board and the Soil and Land Conservation Council, is being drafted in preparation for consultation with stakeholders. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: What expenditure is expected to be incurred in each of the next four years on the maintenance and monitoring of the emu proof fence? Answer: State barrier fence (emu proof fence) expenditure and estimates as follows - 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 400,000 410,000 420,000 420,000 420,000 420,000 420,000 In line with five year maintenance and replacement plan. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked: How many hectares were protected in 2000-01 by the application of the Remnant Vegetation Scheme? Answer: 11,091 hectares. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked: Of what does the “Special Assistance Process” (page 236) consist? Answer: Establishment of a Special Assistance Process was recommended by the Native Vegetation Working Group in its report that was released with the State Salinity Strategy in April 2000. The process was designed “to support landholders needing help with the costs of owning or maintaining bushland”. The process targeted those landholders whose businesses had been severely affected, including through the imposition of clearing controls, and was to involve “case management” to “provide detailed assistance to landholders seeking solutions through incentive and market based approaches”. If this proved inadequate a “Native Vegetation Review Board” was to review the case in detail and recommend adjustment payments. The Native Vegetation Working Group considered that a minimum of $500 000 per year would be needed for five years. This was in addition to a range of incentives needed for landholders seeking to improve the management of their bushland. Government largely accepted the recommendations of the Native Vegetation Working Group in October 2000, however little funding was provided. A Farm Bush Advisory Committee was established in December 2000 to function as a review board, but has not met since the election. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: What is the expected capital expenditure for the next four years? Answer: Where there is no information shown in the Estimates for Outyears it is because the project has been completed and no outyear information is applicable. The majority of projects will be completed in 2001-02, with the only exceptions being - Regional Accommodation projects and planning funded to 2002-03. Crop Improvement Centre funded to 2003-04. South Perth Planning funded to 2004-05 Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked: Landcare Trust. Answer: Total donations received into the Landcare Trust from 1995-96 to 2000-01 were $2.8 million, however, of this only $8 600 was new money over which the trust had discretion. The remainder was money which was already available to the community but is now being channelled through the trust. The department’s administrative contributions from 1997-98 to 2000-01 were $0.381 million. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked - (a) Is there a $12 million increase from Commonwealth Government for SRD? How will this be used? [15 - 18 October 2001] E833

(b) What has the environmental report on the new Waroona office revealed by way of site contaminants? (c) What is the budget appropriation to support the organic food sector? Answer: (a) There is an additional amount of $12.0 million to be received from the Commonwealth for SRD activities funded through the Rural Business Development Corporation. The additional funding is for the Exceptional Circumstances package which provides interest rate subsidies for eligible farmers in the declared area. (b) A copy of the final report will be forwarded to the honourable member when it becomes available. (c) The 2001-02 Agriculture budget allocation for organic food activity has been set at $80 000. The activity has two main components - • Address the feasibility of organic agriculture to provide a substantial contribution to the value of agriculture production in WA. • Continue industry development assistance across agriculture sector.

Division 4: Anti-Corruption Commission - Question: Hon Kate Doust referred to page 30 of the annual report and the expenditure for advertising and asked “During the year the commission made payments totalling $45 545 to Marketforce Advertising for recruitment services. How many positions did the commission seek to fill using the services of that company?” Answer: Eleven positions. Because of the relatively small pool of people resident in the State who are available, or who possess the required investigations-technical skills and experience to be employed by the ACC, positions may be advertised in the Weekend Australian, Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, Courier Mail and the West Australian, as appropriate. Question: Hon N.F. Moore asked “Can the commission provide me with details on the $590 000 (priority and assurance dividend savings for 2001-02) and how it proposes to save $736 000 next year.” Answer: The Anti-Corruption Commission has grown rapidly over the past four years, in establishing the comprehensive administrative, policy, technical and legal infrastructures required to meet its mandate. With recent commissioning of its telecommunication surveillance (TS) equipment and legal authorisation for the use of those facilities, 2001-02 this will be the first year the Commission has been able to employ the full raft of capabilities considered essential for effective and efficient investigations. Furthermore, it is the first time the Commission has been able to accurately assess ongoing budgetary needs. Overall the funding requirements for operational activities and essential administrative overheads have increased substantially from 2000-01. This is a consequence of FTE increases (related to the TS implementation) that reflect in salaries and allowances, significant accommodation cost increases, higher communications costs resulting from application of the TS capabilities and implementation of systems to ensure the integrity of all Commission records. Of further significance is the need to also be able to meet the set-up and ongoing operational costs for (the recently announced) public hearings into allegations of corruption, criminal or serious improper conduct. Addressing its budgetary position in the context of the Government’s savings policies and priorities, the Commission adopted a “zero based” approach to assessing its capacity to effectively meet existing operational requirements and public hearings over the next 4 years, with minimum overheads. It was determined that this can be achieved, but only by utilising the existing forward appropriations (lower than now required, having been established in 2000-01) and the approved carryover funds. The $2 804 000 total contribution to the Priority and Assurance Dividends over the period was factored in the calculations. A number of administrative and operational strategies will have to be adhered to for these objectives to be achieved, including - Maintenance of certain personnel, payroll, purchasing and accounts payable functions by the Department of Premier and Cabinet systems. Judicious management of surveillance and investigation technical equipment acquisitions, administrative overheads (ie overtime), training and general consumables. Extension, where appropriate, of IT and other technical equipment replacement cycles, and enhancements to vehicle leasing and similar contract arrangements. Question: Hon Derrick Tomlinson asked “Is there any commitment at this stage by the Anti-Corruption Commission, financially or in resources, to the preparation or conduct of the royal commission into the Police Service?”

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Answer: As indicated during the Legislative Council Estimates Hearings, at this stage the Government has provided $5.0 million in 2001-02 and $10.0 million in 2002-03, in estimates for the Department of the Premier and Cabinet, for the establishment and conduct of a Royal Commission into the Western Australian Police Service. This funding commitment is separate to the budget allocation for the ongoing operation of the Anti-Corruption Commission. Possible future commitments by the Anti-Corruption Commission to the Royal Commission will be considered, if necessary once the terms of reference for the Royal Commission are finalised.

Division 68: Community Development - Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked the following: Youth policy development - BP2, v3, p1165. Given the recommendations of the community drug summit, which included a number of recommendations regarding policy and program coordination, and noting the comments on p1181, how is this to be achieved given the reduction in funding for output 7 from the estimated actual of $8,010,000 to $6,875,00, a reduction in real terms of $1,135,000? Answer: The Department for Community Development, Youth Affairs, will continue to provide and coordinate the development of youth policies, initiatives and programs within current budget allocations. The amalgamation of the former Office of Youth Affairs into the new Department for Community Development provides a unique opportunity for policy coordination and collaboration to occur in a social policy context, with a community development focus, across government. The engagement and inclusion of the community, including young people, will be a policy priority. By working with young people to develop appropriate policies, we will be building their capacity and resolve, and delivering practical responses. Along with increased coordination there will be an end to the duplication which will free up resources and allow the Government to expand service delivery. When the Government announces its response to the recommendations to the Community Drug Summit it will be in a position to announce a number of new initiatives and programs. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked: Output 2 - child and family safety - BP2, v3, p1169. With respect to the statement in revenue estimates of “increase reflects funding for the Supported Accommodation Assistance Program has increased”, and noting the statement on p1171 under ‘Major Initiatives for 2001-02’, “Enhance services to young people who are homeless through increased crisis accommodation services to homeless young people” - (a) What was the previous level of SAAP and by how much has the funding increased? (b) Is this increase greater than CPI? (c) If this increase is greater than CPI, to what purpose is it to be applied in specific terms? (d) If the funding increase is to be greater than CPI, how are the priorities assessed? Answer: (a) The agreed Commonwealth-State base funding for SAAP for 2000-01 was $25,673,000. The 2001-02 base funding is $26,593,000, an increase of $920,000. (b) This increase is predominantly the result of an indexation increase of 2.9 percent. This rate of indexation is as agreed in the SAAP IV State and Commonwealth Bilateral Agreement and for 2001-02 totalled $745,000. The remaining $175,000 represents additional agreed parity funds. (c) The indexation rate of 2.9 percent, is in accordance with agreed rate in the Commonwealth-State Bilateral agreement. The additional parity funding will be used to assist services to meet the cost of the Crisis Assistance Supported Housing Award (CASH Award). Additional to the agreed $26,593,000, and included in the figures on page 1169, a number of government election commitments will fund new SAAP related services as follows: $2 million over four years - $250,000 in 2001-02 - for additional supported accommodation to homeless youth. $1 million over four years - $150,000 in 2001-02 - to support women escaping domestic violence in need of safe accommodation. $1 million over four years - $150,000 in 2001-02 - to enhance follow-up services to women leaving refuges to help them re-establish themselves (d) The assessment of priorities for the new election commitment funding will be informed by the Department for Community Development planning processes and consultation with relevant stakeholders. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked the following: Noting the above, in Output Measures at p1170 it states that the average cost per supported accommodation case equivalent is to be $1836. This represents an increase on the 2000-01 estimate of $1762, but a decrease from the 1999-00 Actual of $1939 - (a) What is the reason for the increase from the estimate, from $1762 to $1836? (b) What is the reason for the decrease from the 1999-00 Actual, from $1939 to $1836? [15 - 18 October 2001] E835

Answer: (a) The 2001-02 target includes additional costs associated with the capital user charge - $329,000, the youth accommodation election commitment - $250,000 - and increased general costs, such as workers compensation, motor vehicles and accommodation - $361,000. (b) The higher unit cost in 1999-00 of $1,939 is attributable to higher one-off arrears payments to non-government organisations for the CASH - crisis assistance, supported housing - award. Also, the 2001-02 target - $1836 - includes a greater number of instances of support, an increase of 1,000 cases, to people seeking accommodation within the same number of funded services. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked the following: Output 3 - care for children - BP2, v3, p1172. Given the statement on p1171 under 'Major achievements for 2000-01', "Commenced refurbishment of the Adolescent Child Support Services Emergency Accommodation hostel in Bedford, due for completion in September 2001", and the statement on p1174 "planning for two new facilities in the metropolitan area to replace facilities in Bedford and Mount Lawley" - (a) What preparatory work has been done for the location of these facilities? (b) Will these facilities represent an increase in capacity? (c) What criteria are being used for assessing location and building requirements for these facilities? (d) Is one of the new facilities replacing the Bedford facility described above? (e) Why has the Bedford facility been refurbished when it appears it is to be moved? (f) Given perceived community concerns with these facilities, what processes of community consultation are to be used to determine community attitudes and acceptance of the new facilities, in line with the statement on p1174 "establishment of a community reference committee..."? (g) Are these facilities in line with the recommendations of the Community Drug Summit? Answer: (a) A vigorous search for possible locations to put the new facilities is under way. (b) No. (c) The criteria are: size of land, cost per square metre, access to utilities, nature of surrounding properties, access to support facilities, within 25kms of Perth CBD. (d) Yes. (e) The previous Government approved the refurbishment of the Bedford facility for the Emergency Accommodation Service. It will continue to be used for this purpose until a new facility is built. The department will use the facility for other purposes upon vacation by the Emergency Accommodation Service. (f) Consultation and discussion with local authority; consultation and discussion with local residents; formation of a community reference committee prior to the opening of the facilities (g) Not applicable. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked the following: Noting the above, and noting the funds described under the heading Works Program - BP2, v3, p1183 - new works, 2001-02 program, and hostel refurbishment - (a) To what purpose are the funds to be applied? (b) Noting the above, what is the Bedford facility to be used for once new premises have been located/established? Answer: (a) For the refurbishment of existing hostels, predominantly in the country. (b) The department will continue to use the facility but the specific service is yet to be determined. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked the following: Output 2 - child and family safety, BP2, v3, p1169. With reference to the statement under ‘Major initiatives for 2001-02’ on p1171, “Contribute to the development of a state homelessness strategy . . . “ - (a) What is this strategy? (b) What is the time-line for development and implementation? (c) What, if any, progress has been made on this strategy? (d) What, if any, of the recommendations of the Community Drug Summit are being considered in the preparation of this strategy, and how are they being considered for implementation?

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(e) What is the envisaged expenditure for this strategy, and when is it expected to commence? Answer: (a) The Government included the development of a state homelessness strategy as a part of its election commitments. a task force of government and community members has been appointed to develop the state homelessness strategy with the following terms of reference - (i) Through meaningful consultation with stakeholders, develop a plan of action, for the whole-of- government and community, incorporating practical responses to the prevention of homelessness, the provision of effective support for those who are homeless and to support people in maintaining their accommodation after an incidence of homelessness. (ii) Provide advice on identifying the causes of homelessness in Western Australia, including an understanding of homelessness in the regions, and appropriate responses for preventing homelessness. (iii) Contribute to a better understanding of pathways through homelessness in Western Australia and identify gaps in provision. (iv) With regard to the development of the Government's community and social indicators benchmarking exercise, provide advice on benchmarks and social indicators relating to homelessness. (v) Make recommendations for action to the Cabinet Standing Committee on Social Policy by 31 January 2002, together with an implementation plan and monitoring strategy. (b) Recommendations for action to the Cabinet Standing Committee on Social Policy will be finalised by 31 January 2002, together with an implementation plan and monitoring strategy. (c) To date, there has been communication and consultation with service providers, community organisations and peak bodies with the task force. Over 47 written submissions have been received and the task force is drafting a report to government to be released for public comment during November. Information is available on the task force website at www.homeless.dhw.wa.gov.au (d) The recommendations of the Community Drug Summit are being considered where relevant. (e) Until a state homelessness strategy has been developed, the envisaged expenditure cannot be calculated. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked the following: Is there additional funding for the Bunbury youth outreach program? Answer: The Bunbury youth outreach program will receive an additional $2,358 in 2001-02 through annual indexation. Question: Hon Derrick Tomlinson asked the following: Output 2, child and family safety, and output 3, care for children, consume about 57 per cent of the department’s budget. The Auditor General’s recently released report containing some recommendations for improving aspects of those programs. How is the department responding to those recommendation? Answer: In November 1998 the Office of the Auditor General tabled the Performance Management Report – Accommodation and Support Services Provided to Young People Unable to Live at Home - and made a number of recommendations to improve the across-government service delivery to this group of young people. In February 2001 a follow-up analysis was commenced by the office of the Auditor General to examine whether improvements had been achieved in the period November 1998 to July 2001. The report was tabled in Parliament on the 19 September 2001. From the findings, four recommendations were made by the office of the Auditor General. The management plan for the four recommendations will include the following strategies - Recommendation 1: Develop and implement strategies to improve the stability of appropriate placements for young people in care. As acknowledged in the Auditor General’s report, the department has implemented several initiatives to increase, retain and utilise the number of placements for young people. Some of these initiatives include - the extension of kinship care the establishment of the Foster Carer Recruitment Service the establishment of the Aboriginal Child Placement Service the establishment of the Adolescent Child Support Service the expanded training opportunities for foster carers the establishment of the centralised agency placement officer position the creation of specialist Care for Children teams, and the introduction of Spectrum of Care, a classification system for non government agencies. [15 - 18 October 2001] E837

To progress this recommendation further, a group consisting of government and non-government representatives will be formed to develop and implement appropriate strategies. The group will be formed following executive’s endorsement of the management plan. Recommendation 2: Develop and implement strategies to improve the stability of assignment of caseworker to young people in care. The Director Human Resources will be coordinating a strategy to address the response required regarding this recommendation. This response will commence immediately following executive’s endorsement of the management plan. Recommendation 3: Ensure that the implementation of the Looking After Children system is adequately evaluated, with particular focus on whether the experience of young people in care and planning for leaving care has improved. The Looking After Children (LAC) system was designed in the United Kingdom to ensure that from the moment a child or young person enters care, assessment and planning is immediately undertaken and remains ongoing, together with the provision of appropriate services. Since 1993 the department, in conjunction with the non-government sector, has been developing and piloting a locally adapted model of the LAC system prior to state-wide implementation commencing in October 2001. The LAC system requires the comprehensive gathering of information regarding a young person’s circumstances and care needs from the initial point of entry into care. For young people remaining in long-term care, assessment and action records will be completed on an annual basis and will track the young person’s progress across seven developmental dimensions of wellbeing, that is, health, education, identity, family and social relationships, social presentation, emotional and behavioural development and self care. Within each dimension age specific objectives are identified and the young person’s experiences and progress are measured against these to inform planning in respect of the young person’s developmental and other needs whilst in care. LAC also provides the basis for comprehensive preparation for young people leaving care and moving towards independent living through the assessment and action record. The plans arising from the assessment and action record require achievable objectives to be set for all the dimensions of the young person’s development and for each action to make clear who is responsible for what and by when. Young people, agencies providing care, foster carers, families and significant others are all involved in the process of developing these plans. The intention of this system is to actively work towards better outcomes for young people in the care system and for young people leaving care by ensuring the early identification and ongoing review of support needs and the active monitoring of service plans to address identified needs. A LAC evaluation and research committee has been operating for the past four months, though much exploratory work was undertaken prior to the commencement of the evaluation committee. The evaluation committee is chaired by the director of provider support and is examining three tiers of work - evaluation of compliance: researching the impact of new practices occurring with the introduction of LAC, for example, keeping care plans for children; and longer-term research looking at the impact of children in care and children leaving care. Recommendation 4: Ensure a timely implementation of the Interagency Policy for Working with Young People in Care. Whilst the Interagency Policy for Working with Young People in Care was previously signed by all CEOs, many obstacles were encountered when attempting to progress the protocols, including a lack of information at senior management level across each agency and a lack of understanding by those senior managers of the importance of the document. To reactivate the development of the protocols, the department will be seeking endorsement from the Cabinet Standing Committee on Social Policy on the widespread ownership and commitment to the issue. A paper will be forwarded to the minister within the next week regarding this strategy. The office of Auditor General will undertake a further examination in 2003-04 of the progress made in relation to the above recommendations. To ensure the implementation of these recommendations, the Department for Community Development is developing a management plan overseen by the Executive Director, Metropolitan Service Delivery. The department’s executive will endorse the management plan. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked the following: On page 1170, one of the output measures under Cost is the average cost per supported accommodation case equivalent, which is $1,836. This represents an increase on the estimate for this year of $1,726 but a decrease in the actual cost of $1,939 for 2001. What is the reason for the increase from the estimates and what is the reason for the decrease from the actual expenditure?

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Answer: The 2001-02 target ($1836) includes additional costs associated with the capital user charge ($329,000). The youth accommodation election commitment ($250,000) and increased general costs (such as workers compensation, motor vehicles and accommodation) ($361,000). The higher unit cost in 1999-00 of $1,939 is attributable to higher one-off arrears payments to non-government organisations for the CASH (Crisis Assistance, Supported Housing) Award. Also, the 2001-02 target ($1836) includes a greater number of instances of support, an increase of 1,000 cases, to people seeking accommodation within the same number of funded services. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked the following - I refer to page 1181 of the Budget Statements and the programs for youth, under output 7. Some programs mentioned will not be continued and, since youth is such a vital part of our society, what are the projected outcomes over the next four years for that funding? Answer: A number of youth programs and initiatives previously provided by Youth Affairs will continue in 2001-02. These include the - • staging of the Centenary of Federation Youth Festivals and National Youth Conference centrepiece event; • revision and implementation of “Action: A State Government Plan for Young People, 2000-2003”; • promotion of the positive achievements of young people through the WA Youth Awards Showcase and by supporting National Youth Week activities; • consolidation of youth consultative mechanisms, including Youth Advisory Councils; • consolidation and expansion of youth development opportunities, including Cadets WA; • improved dissemination of information to young people and those with an interest in youth matters through the further development of the ‘U’ web site and the production of a range of resources including the Youth Suicide Prevention Information Kit (currently being revised), Youth Facts WA and the maintenance and updating of the Youth Services Directory; • continued management of service agreements with community based organisations, which provide youth development services; and • continued support of coordinating and networking mechanisms, including Youth Coordinating Networks. Strategies implemented to minimise the impact of the reduction in appropriations include - • reducing the administrative component of programs and initiatives to ensure the impact on services to young people and community groups is minimised; • review of the Youth Training Scheme to ensure the focus remains on efficiency and high delivery standards; • addressing young people’s needs for public space through the development of appropriate youth orientated cultural venues and public open spaces in rural and regional areas, in place of the Skate Facilities Grants program; • negotiating with the Office of Road Safety to assume responsibility for the Roadsmart program when it concludes in 2001; • negotiating with the Department of Health about ongoing funding for the pilot Community and Peer Support Programs; and • negotiating with the Cities of Kwinana and Cockburn and the Cities of Wanneroo and Joondalup to continue the Telstra Rally Australia Youth Program post 31 December 2001. In addition, the Government, over the next four years is committed to implementing the following - • strengthening young people’s representative voice by supporting the Youth Affairs Council of WA (YACWA); • a register of young people for boards and committees; • a youth summit to discuss issues that young people face; • development of appropriate youth orientated cultural venues and public open spaces in rural and regional areas; • engagement of youth advocates to help young people in their dealings with government; • support and development of the Youth Parliament; and • introduction of a youth budget impact statement. These will be developed into programs and initiatives through consultation with young people, the non-government sector and other key stakeholders. Implementation over the four-year period will be dependent on the 2002-03 budget allocation. The desired outcome of all Youth Affairs’ activities is that young people are enabled to make more considered decisions about matters that affect and influence their lives and development. [15 - 18 October 2001] E839

Question: Hon Kate Doust asked the following: In the budget papers, on page 1164, dot point 3, the department acknowledges the need to support parents in caring for their children as they seek to balance work and family responsibilities. How does the department do this? Answer: Currently, under the Community Services Act 1972, the Department for Community Development has a mandatory responsibility for the licensing of child care services for children 0 – six years. The Community Services (Child Care) Regulations 1988 describe the minimum standards of care for this age group and the Child Care Licensing Unit monitors compliance with these regulations. The department has been working on the development of regulations for outside school hours child care services as a result of parent and community concern over the standards in this sector. The drafting process will commence in the near future and it is envisaged implementation will take around 12 months from the date of gazetting. A project officer is working closely with services to support them reach the required standards and the outcome will be that parents will be much more confident about the standards they can expect when they use outside school hours care services. The Department for Community Development is represented on the Western Australian Child Care Planning Advisory Committee which is chaired by the Commonwealth. This enables the State to provide input into planning for the location of new child care services as well as providing an opportunity to ensure a State perspective is presented during decision making processes. A new initiative in 2000 was the Community Services Industry Association Award for family friendly work practices. The inaugural award went to Ms Megan Wynne, Managing Director of the Perth based company Advanced Personnel Management. The Department for Community Development also conducts an annual survey to ascertain community perceptions of family friendliness of workplace practices and customer services. The analysis of this data is published in the annual publication, Research News. FamilyOne ambassadors are appointed for twelve months to promote family friendly work practices within their own sphere of activity – in business, government or community. This strategy highlights the value of children and families and reinforces the valuable contribution that individuals and organisations can make towards improving family and community wellbeing. It is also proposed to develop a FamilyOne accreditation scheme to enable organisations to be recognised for their commitment to initiatives including workplace practices which support and strengthen family life.

Division 39: Conservation and Land Management - Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: I refer to page 641 of the Budget Statements and the creation of 30 new national parks. I would like to distribute a list of regenerated forests in national parks. In the list of proposed national parks that contain regenerated forest, are there any omissions or wrong inclusions? Does that correctly state the amount of hectares of regenerated forests in those proposed national parks? What would be the annual yield on a sustainable basis of timber if those areas were reharvested? Answer: Table 1 (attached) lists the area of regrowth forest, by forest block, within each of the proposed national parks. These areas are the net addition to the reserve system - they exclude regrowth forest within informal reserves and areas that were previously set aside from timber harvesting under the 1994-2003 Forest Management Plan, Regional Forest Agreement, and the Ministerial Advisory Group on Karri and Tingle. The precise boundaries for many of the proposed new national parks are still under active consideration. The total area of jarrah regeneration within these areas is approximately 4,700 hectares, located mostly within the Warren Region. Because these stands are very young, their estimated contribution to the sustained yield of first and second grade sawlogs during the period to 2040 averages only 100 cubic metres per annum. In the longer-term, mainly in the period 2040 to 2200, the average contribution is 1,700 cubic metres per annum of grade 1 and 2 sawlogs.

Approximately 8,300 hectares of regrowth karri forest are contained within the proposed park boundaries. In the short- term period to 2020, the estimated contribution from these stands to the sustained yield of first and second grade sawlog is approximately 2,500 cubic metres per annum. Over the period 2020 to 2150, the average annual sawlog production from these areas would be approximately 22,000 cubic metres

Most of the forest blocks listed in Table 1 contain a mixture of old-growth, regrowth and ‘other’ non old-growth forest. There is a total of approximately 23,500 hectares of ‘other’ non old-growth forest. These stands have been previously cut-over and contain varied proportions of regrowth and mature trees. They would make a significant contribution to the short-term sustained yield of both jarrah and karri sawlog during the period to 2040.

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Table 1 Areas of regrowth forest within proposed national parks (hectares)

Proposed National Park Forest Block Regrowth area Boorara-Gardner Babbington 50 Boorara 150 Gardner 1,220

Boyndaminup Boyndaminup 60

Butler Butler 160 Darradup 30

Greater Beedelup Beavis 1,040 Carey 1,250 Giblett 40

Greater Dordagup Poole 70 Sutton 40

Greater Hawke Crowea 10 Dombakup 10

Greater Kingston Corbal 200 Dudijup 20 Dwalgan 30 Mersea 110

Hilliger Blackpoint 30 Hilliger 190

Jane Jane 400

Lake Muir Chitelup 340 Poorginup 120 Spring 10

Walpole Wilderness Burnett 10 Dawson 310 Deep 880 Frankland 270 Harewood 10 Keystone 670 Lochart 1,990 Long 70 Mossop 20 Ordnance 30 Rocky 120 Sharpe 50 Swarbrick 670 Thomson 720 Wattle 50 Weld 70 Wye 1,460 Source: Forest Management Information System 23/10/01 Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked: Was the advisory committee asked to avoid provision for compensation measures? Answer: No. However, the advisory committee was certainly aware of the legislative provisions providing for the possibility of compensation in the event that establishment of a marine park precludes existing commercial fishing and related activities and losses are suffered as a result. This matter was discussed in committee and the committee acknowledged that an outcome that involved significant compensation may adversely affect the establishment of this park. [15 - 18 October 2001] E841

Question: The Hon Peter Foss asked: I refer to an answer given earlier about the half-million-dollar reduction in scientific research, under the priority assurance dividend. This sounds like a significant amount. Will the Minister give the total amount spent by the department on research, and what percentage this reduction represents. Is this a global reduction, or has particular research been identified that will not now take place. Answer: The allocation to Science Division in 2000/01 was set at $10,354,704, with additional external funds and allocations from special programs including the Salinity Strategy and Gascoyne Murchison Strategy. The budget reduction that has been imposed from last year’s allocation is $530,000. This represents a reduction of 5.84% on the above consolidated fund component of the Science Division budget. The Science Division is meeting the challenge of the budget reduction by bringing some scientific research activities to an early close, by reallocating priorities to the highest priority research functions and by deferring the date of completion of some projects and activities through lower staff allocations. A total of 6 staff employed in Science Division took voluntary severance at the end of June 2001 as part of the overall budget savings strategy. Question: The Hon Ed Dermer MLC asked: On page 643 the second initiative listed in this section reads - Commission digital focus on the Lowell Telescope in order to improve quality and quantity of observations. I would like further information about the advantages that will result from this initiative. Answer: The 24 inch Lowell Telescope is the Perth Observatory’s largest aperture telescope. It is on indefinite loan to Western Australia from NASA and the Lowell Observatory Arizona. The commissioning of a digital focus in place of the manual focus will allow the number of observations to be substantially increased because it will provide more rapid focussing of the instrument. The Lowell Telescope is used to monitor galaxies in search of supernova (exploding stars), to monitor their brightness, which allows for an understanding of the physical processes. The Lowell Telescope is also used to monitor the brightness of other stars in order to undertake observational studies important to modern cosmological theories. It is also used to view brightness changes of known comets to study these remnants of the formation of the solar system. The telescope is regularly used by tertiary students. Questions from Hon Giz Watson MLC (1) I refer to page 636 of the Budget Papers and the review of Ningaloo Marine Park management plan - (a) What does the review involve? (b) When will the review be completed? (2) Regarding the public consultation process for the proposed Montebello/Barrow Islands and Dampier Archipelago/ Cape Preston Marine Parks - (a) What is the budget allocation for these consultations? (b) When are these marine parks expected to be proclaimed? Answer: (1) (a) The review involves - • An analysis of management in the Ningaloo Marine Park over the past ten years. • A public consultation program (Have Your Say). • A review and potential revision of the existing zoning scheme. • A review of the park’s boundaries in relation to possible extensions to the park or new reserves. • Development of an options paper for Marine Parks and Reserves Authority and stakeholder comment . • Revision of the current management plan. • A three-month public submission period. • A finalised management plan for the following 10 years. (b) The review is intended to be completed, with all relevant approvals, by mid 2003. (2) (a) The allocations for the public consultation processes in the 2001-2002 budget, inclusive of the development of the indicative management plan by the community-based advisory committees for the proposed Montebello/Barrow Islands and Dampier Archipelago/ Cape Preston Marine Parks are $74,000 and $117,000 respectively. (b) Current planning timetables are to have the reserves in place in 2004/2005.

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Questions from Hon Dr Christine Sharp MLC (a) Output 1 Nature Conservation When will the review of the Shannon National Park Management Plan be completed? (b) Output 2 Sustainable Forest Management The MOU between this department and Forests Products Commission is in the nature of a list of topics. How are the details of these various arrangements specified? Are these detailed agreements publicly available? (c) Output 1 Nature Conservation How many hectares of national parks and reserves are located in Southern Swan Coastal Plain? (Mandurah to Dunsborough)? Please also list the names of these areas. (d) Output 1 Nature Conservation (i) With regards to TUART Forest conservation, how much of the original pre-1750 extent is in secure reserves. (ii) Does TUART forest conservation meet JANIS criteria? If yes, please substantiate. (e) Output 2 Sustainable Forest Management, Output 4 Parks and Visitor Services With regard to road maintenance; clearing of fallen trees and branches off roads; white ant treatment on wooden structures; reviewing visitor information; building repairs; etc - (i) Can you demonstrate that maintenance standards will be acceptable for both these outputs? How? (ii) What is the appropriation? (iii) Trends in appropriation? (iv) Is this service done on a cost for service basis? Answer: (a) The draft management plan is intended to be released in 2002 with the final released in mid 2003. (b) Under the MOU the Department and the Forest Products Commission have agreed to develop “working arrangements’ for a number of activities. It is expected that following the resolution of outstanding issues the working arrangements documents will be finalised in the near future. The documents will be available at that time. (c) The following is a list of existing reserves (note names in parentheses are unofficial names): NATIONAL PARKS area (ha) Yalgorup 13090 Tuart Forest 2049 CONSERVATION PARKS Len Howard 67 (Leschenault Inlet) 581 Section 5(1)(g) CALM Act reserves Res 45057 16 NATURE RESERVES Res 35283 129 Res 8185 Creery Is 74 Res 4990 Austin Bay 1659 Res 41184 16 Res 13359 3 Res 2738 Mealup Point 30 Res 24739 McLarty 48 Res 6627 Lake Mealup 37 Res 44977 27 [15 - 18 October 2001] E843

Res 39404 Lake McLarty 184 Res 44978 35 Res 23756 Kooljerrenup 1019 Res 16907 Nine Mile Lake 113 Res 6268 15 Res 5098 (Marrarup) 121 Res 22199 Buller 301 Res 12049 Harvey Flats 79 Res 12632 Riverdale 38 Res 24472 Crampton 37 Res 2517 (Byrd Swamp) 41 Res 34811 Benger Swamp 555 Res 40564 6 Res 38393 Morangarel 5 Res 46108 12 Res 16144 Capel 94 Res 44838 32 Res 33269 (Ruabon townsite) 33 Res 46006 24 Res 46070 4 Res 31188 Sabina 46 Res 41568 21 Res 25836 1 Res 26620 3 Res 27080 Broadwater 80 Res 41972 Locke 200 The following additions to reserves are proposed: NATIONAL PARKS area(ha) Yalgorup 2328 Tuart Forest 105 CONSERVATION PARKS (Leschenault Inlet) 1115 (d)(i) Records to December 2001 indicate that approximately 9,350 hectares of tuart forest is in existing or proposed reserves managed by the Department of Conservation and Land Management. Another 980 hectares of tuart occur in patches in State forest between Gnangara and Busselton, and 12,900 hectares is on land not managed by the Department. A number of studies since the early 1980s have mapped the various categories of tuart and generated estimates of the pre-1750 extent of the forest. These estimates range from 103,000 to 130,000 hectares. (d)(ii) The JANIS criteria include targets for the proportion of pre-1750 extent and old-growth forest in reserves. The JANIS target is, where possible, for 15% of the pre-1750 extent to be reserved. Estimates of the area of forest that is within reserves managed by the Department range from 7 to 9% depending on the estimate of the pre- 1750 extent that is adopted. However, the tuart forest is comprised of a variety of vegetation complexes and structural types and the representation of particular types (such as woodland categories) will vary. The analysis of the amount of old growth in reserves requires the development of operational criteria to define old growth, followed by mapping, analysis of data, and field verification. This has not been undertaken. It is likely that limited areas of tuart would satisfy old-growth criteria relating to age and minimal disturbance by harvesting, grazing and mining.

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(e) (i) Yes. There is ongoing commitment to maintenance of roads and other built assets. Departmental Districts have maintenance systems and checklists in place. (ii) The local allocation of maintenance budgets is still being determined. An allocation of $500 000 has been made specifically for maintenance of tourist roads and is augmented by additional recurrent funding. (iii) Over the last two years greater emphasis has been given to maintenance of existing road and built assets as compared to building new roads and facilities. It is anticipated the appropriation will increase as a result of implementation of the “Protecting our old growth forests” policy. (iv) The majority of maintenance is undertaken by staff of the Department as part of the normal works program. Some road maintenance is undertaken through service agreements with local authorities and road contractors. Questions from Hon Robin Chapple MLC: (1) Is it proposed that a dual use conservation area be established adjacent to the east of the Karijini National Park? If so, when will this be established? (2) What, if any, budgetary provision exists to assist in the establishment of such a conservation area? Answer: (1) The Department of Conservation and Land Management has been discussing with other Government agencies and mining companies how conservation outcomes can be achieved on areas to the east of Karijini National Park which are of interest for mining and for conservation. There is no timetable to establish a specific reserve although discussions are continuing. (2) No specific budget provision has been made. Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: As part of the priority and assurance dividend, what is the total amount that is spent on regional parks and what does that represent in terms of a percentage reduction? Answer: The regional parks budget for 2001-2002 has been reduced from $2.350 million to $2.025 million which represents a 13.8 per cent reduction. The Government has given priority to implementing its commitment under the 'Protecting our old-growth forests' policy to establish 30 new national parks. An additional $2.504 million in recurrent expenditure and an additional $2.050 in capital funds has been allocated for national parks in the current financial year. It should be noted that the higher than average reduction that has been applied to this activity will be reviewed prior to the next financial year to ensure that management and capital allocations are consistent with management plans and facilities development and maintenance plans for regional parks. Question: The Hon Ed Dermer MLC asked: On page 643 the fourth initiative is the 16 inch Meade telescope in a new enclosure for scientific use with an electric CCD camera. What advantages may flow from the operation of that telescope? Answer: The 16 inch Meade telescope has the second largest aperture of the Perth Observatory’s telescopes. The telescope is currently used for the very popular public star viewing nights. Although it is not a professional instrument, the Observatory intends to also adapt it for use for scientific purposes for tracking asteroids and comets. Question: Hon Robyn McSweeney asked: I refer to the second output relating to sustainable forest management on page 637 of the Budget Statements. How many hectares of jarrah and karri forest will be clear-felled this year and in each of the subsequent three years? Answer: Clearfelling is a silvicultural system that is used to produce sawlogs and other forest products and to regenerate the karri forest. This system is not applied in the jarrah forest, where areas are harvested to a range of silvicultural objectives that includes regeneration release (gap), regeneration establishment (shelterwood), and thinning. Some areas of jarrah forest are cleared in advance of mining operations or the construction of utilities. The total area harvested each year to the various silvicultural objectives will depend on a number of factors. These include the sawlog supply targets that are required, the combination of previous cutting history (and hence present standing timber volume) of the areas potentially available, and the silvicultural status of these areas (presence of jarrah lignotuberous stock). Future sawlog supply targets will be determined through the new Forest Management Plan process. Under its ‘Protecting our old-growth forests’ policy the Government has begun a step down in the volume of timber cut, through the Business Exit Assistance program. Precise estimates for areas to be harvested beyond 2001 are therefore not possible at this time. However, indicative figures for the area of karri to be clearfelled would be up to 1,500 ha in 2001 and 1000 hectares in 2002. [15 - 18 October 2001] E845

Division 26: Consumer And Employment Protection - Question: Hon George Cash asked: Secondly, I refer to the priority dividend that appears on page 447. This financial year it is proposed to be $522 000. Then the figure jumps to $750 000 for the next financial year. Can we have a breakdown of the $522 000, and can we be advised now what the additional $230 000-odd will represent for the year 2002-03; that is, the increased amount required for the priority dividend? Answer: (1) The $522 000 for 2001/02 relates to savings made by Labour Relations ($486 000) and Consumer Protection ($36 000) Divisions. The savings for Labour Relations comprise $93 000 for a reduction in corporate overheads (cars, equipment, repairs and introduction of new cheaper finance computer system); $235 665 for reduced central costs (3 corporate service positions, CEO travel/office costs) and $157 335 for abolition of vacant economist and assistant director position. Consumer Protection savings include $36 000 for introduction of 1300 number for users of the Register of Encumbered Vehicles (REVS) and charging businesses to access the REVS service. (2) The additional $228 000 for 2002/03 comprise additional savings of $138 000 for Labour Relations and $90 000 for WorkSafe. Savings for Labour Relations include an additional $35 646 reduction in corporate overheads (accommodation, CEO office costs, and financial system savings) and $82 354 for further reduction of staff levels by natural attrition. The WorkSafe figure is the estimated savings from an additional SES redundancy. Question: Hon N. F. Moore asked: I refer to the financial statements on page 461. Some figures there show significant increases or variations. I will go through those and ask for an explanation of those variations. The total cost of services has gone from a budget in 2000-01 of $40.5 million to an estimated actual of $47.8 million, with a budget estimate in 2001-02 of $54.2 million. That is a significant increase. Similarly, the net cost of services has gone from $31 million to about $42 million. I notice the change in equity resulting from the operations has gone from plus $4.5 million to minus $5 million. Page 462 shows that the cash assets have gone from an estimated actual in 2000-01 of $7 million down to a budget estimate of $1.9 million in 2001-02. Can somebody explain those significant reasons? Answer: Total cost of services. Budget for 2000/2001 against estimated actual for 2000/2001: (page 461) Budget for 2000/2001 $ 40.5m Estimated Actual for 2000/2001 $ 47.8m Increase $ 7.3m The increase in actual cost for 2000/2001 against the budgeted cost arises from the significant supplementary funding that was appropriated to Consumer Protection during the year to address issues arising from the Gunning enquiry, finance industry failures and the implementation of petroleum products initiatives. The total supplementary funding granted for these purposes was $ 9.8m. This figure does not reconcile exactly with the $ 7.3m increase shown above because many of these expenditures programs were behind schedule at the close of 2000/2001 whilst awaiting legal process etc. Consequently, there were unspent funds carried forward. Total cost of services. Estimated actual for 2000/2001 against budget for 2001/2002: (page 461) Estimated Actual for 2000/2001 $ 47.8m Budget for 2001/2002 $ 54.2m Increase $ 6.4m The increase in budget arises mainly from an increase of $4.3m appropriated for Consumer Protection activities via the bilateral negotiations in recognition of consumer protection needs and consistent with the Government’s Consumer Justice strategy. The balance of the increase arises from supplementary funds for 2001/2002 that were approved during 2000/2001. Net cost of services Budget for 2000/2001 $ 31.5m Budget for 2001/2002 $ 42.9m Increase $ 11.4m The increase arises from the issues referred to above: Viz.: Consumer Protection activities endorsed at the Bilateral negotiations $ 4.3m Supplementary funding for 2001/2002 approved in 2000/2001 $ 3.0m Unspent supplementary funding carried forward from 2000/2001 to 21001/2002 $ 4.4m Total $11.7m

E846 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Change in equity resulting from operations The positive figure of $4.4m for 2000/2001 arises from the unspent supplementary funding referred to above. The negative figure of $5.1 represents the application of these unspent funds and other carried forward balances to consumer protection purposes in 2001/2002. Estimated actual cash balances at close of years: The significant balance of cash on hand for the close of 2000/2001 represents the unspent cash referred to above. The reduction of the figure to $1.9m estimated for the close of 2001/2002 represents the application of the carried forward funds to consumer protection activities. Question: Hon N. F. Moore asked: There are some issues in respect of the changed equity. I would like an explanation of what is happening. For example, are these additional allocations being made from cash assets? Answer: The change in equity is an application of funds that were unspent as at the end of 2000/01, for the purposes for which they had been granted to the Ministry for Fair Trading (as outlined in the previous answer). Question: Hon Alan Cadby: I refer to the fifth dot point on page 458 and to the sixth dot point on page 459, which are to do with the Internet subscriber service initiated in 2000-01, and to be enhanced in 2001-02. Can the minister give me an idea of the set-up costs of the service? What are the expected annual running costs of the enhanced system? What number of new staff have had to be employed to run the service? What are the expected savings to the department as a result of people using that service rather than using the telephone contact number on Wageline? What is the expected revenue from these subscribers over the next four years? Answer: In relation to dot point 5 Page 458: (1) The set-up cost of the service was $3 542.92. (2) The expected annual running costs are $2 000 to $3 000 for the subscriber service. (3) There have not been any new staff employed to run the service. (4) The subscriber service was introduced as an additional information service for Labour Relations clients and as one measure to assist in meeting increasing demand on Wageline for information. It provides updated copies of wage schedules and alerts subscribers to changes in the Labour Relations website. The effect of increased usage of the subscriber service is to free up Wageline staff to deal with other callers. Approximately 1000 subscribers currently access this service. It is difficult to quantify potential savings to the Department. (5) There is not any expected revenue from subscribers. It is a free service. In relation to dot point 6 Page 459: (1) The set up costs of the service will be between $20 000 and $30 000 to be funded from existing capital works allocation. (2) The enhanced system will be run with existing support staff allocation. Apart from the one off capital allocation there are no additional running costs. (3) There will not be any new staff employed to run the service (4) The enhanced system will provide more targeted information for clients and assist clients to more easily identify their legal entitlements and obligations. The proposed improvements are designed to free Wageline staff to deal with other callers. (5) There is not any expected revenue from subscribers. It is a free service.

Division 69: Disability Services Commission - Question Hon Sue Ellery asked: On page 1191 I notice in the Budget estimate for 2001/02 and the forward estimates that there is a line item entitled “Carers Package”. This line item contains an amount of $2.041m for each of the four years. Is any of this money going to be spent on respite for carers? Answer: This is part of the Government’s pre-election commitment to provide $10 million over four years to implement a range of initiatives to provide a more formal and practical recognition of carers and the vital role they play in providing community care and support for their care-recipients. This commitment will be directed over the next four years towards - • expanding existing respite services and facilities to promote more flexible and responsive respite; • expanding the provision of professional therapy, aids and equipment; [15 - 18 October 2001] E847

• enhancing the counselling services offered to carers and care-recipients; • developing training modules across agencies that provide health, education and community care services in order to identify carer experiences and plan strategies for intervention; and • supporting family initiatives and projects. Question: Hon Giz Watson asked: With reference to page 75 of the Disability Services Commission Annual Report 1999/2000 with regards to Commonwealth and State responsibilities, I note that on a per capita basis WA receives a lower level of funding from the Commonwealth Government than other Australian States or Territories. What is being done to increase the level of funds from the Commonwealth Government? Answer: The current Commonwealth State Disability Agreement expires on 30 June 2002, and negotiations are under way for a third agreement. WA is currently preparing background information regarding the historical inequities in the distribution of Commonwealth funds, to inform a proposal for consideration by disability ministers for a more equitable distribution. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked: Is there funding specifically for youth with disabilities to join other young people - (i) in recreational activities? (ii) in leaving home and living independently? Answer: The Commission currently funds ten agencies to provide recreation activities across all age groups of people with disabilities including young people with disabilities. Its 2001-02 budget also includes funding for post-school options for an additional 80 school leavers unable to participate in full-time employment. Options developed will include a range of alternatives to employment, including recreational activities. The budget also provides for additional accommodation support funding, which is allocated on the basis of relative priority need, regardless of age. This funding for 2001-02 is in addition to an estimated $8.5 million expended on the full range of services for young people aged 15 to 24 living at home with their families.

Division 60: Education - Question: Hon Alan Cadby MLC, asked - (1) In the laptop program, how much money is going to be spent in the 2001-02 budget period? (2) Where does this money come from? (3) What proportion of the budget has been allocated for “teacher inservice”? Answer: (1) The budget estimate is $1.65 million. (2) The funds are coming from the Departments existing budget allocation. (3) The estimated breakup of expenditure for Teacher in-service is: Support $270,000 Professional Development $200,000 Question: Hon Adele Farina MLC asked: I refer to page 1069, Capital Works, dot point 3. Please provide an update on the progress of the construction of Eaton High School. Answer: Tenders for the new Eaton High School have been called and are scheduled to close on 7 November 2001. It is anticipated that construction will commence before Christmas this year and be completed by January 2003. Question: Hon Barbara Scott asked - (1) What is the predicted cost in 2002 for the full cohort of four year olds when they commence? (2) How many four year olds are educated at community kindergartens and why were they excluded from the budget figures? (3) Will the common funding model be retained for these four year old children in community kindergartens, along with their teachers’ salaries and has the common funding model been budgeted for? Answer: (1) The estimated total cash costs in 2002 is estimated to be $24.6 million. (2) In semester 2, 2001, 1 229 children were enrolled in community kindergartens. The support provided by the Department of Education as detailed in (3) below is included in the budget figures.

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(3) The common funding model ceased in 2000. In 2001 the Department of Education provided all community kindergartens with an operating grant and teacher and education assistant salaries. The operating grant and salaries have been budgeted for in the 2001/2002 financial year. Question: Hon Barbara Scott asked - (1) …”Home School Literacy and Numeracy Links …” (a) How much funding and what particular resources have been allocated to this program? (b) Is it the government’s intention to provide home schooling parents with any funds, if not why not? (2) Regarding literacy in the early years and teacher recruitment: (a) Given the expanding early childhood programs, is it the government’s intention to train and recruit teachers with specialist early childhood training? (b) If so, what resources will be devoted to this, will any scholarships be provided, how many teachers will be recruited? (c) What policies are being put in place to address the current shortfall in LOTE teachers, how much will these cost? Answer: (1) (a) Overall funding to the Family Links Strategy is: 2001-2002 $1.146 million 2002-2003 $1.053 million 2003-2004 $ .925 million 2004-2005 $ .870 million The Strategy has several components, one of which is the Home School Literacy and Numeracy Links. A proportion of the total funds will be allocated to this aspect. Specific project outlines and budget requirements are under development. (b) The Government has no intention to provide home schooling parents with any funds, as the specific aim of this strategy is to strengthen ties between families and their children’s school. (2) (a) The Department of Education has been planning for the expanded early childhood programs for several years, including the early identification of a requirement for additional teachers with Early Childhood Education (ECE) training.

Strategies to address the requirement include: Edith Cowan University offering a program which trains teachers to teach from Kindergarten to Year 7, thus training teachers proficient in both Early Childhood Education and Primary. 30 Scholarships annually offered to school leavers and Aboriginal people to enter into a teacher-training course, which may include Early Childhood Education. Fifty-seven scholarships at a cost of $173,000 are available for 2002 and early childhood may be included in this program. An Assessment Program for Teachers and Education Assistants who may have prior experience and training relevant to early childhood education and who can be accredited for this through an assessment of their skills. Encouragement of teachers who have completed Early Childhood studies in their Bachelor of Education degrees to undertake a practicum to be recognised as qualified K and P teachers.

(b) Costs will vary according to the program implemented Scholarships cost $3000 per person for HECS costs per year. Supervised practice have cost implications for teacher relief and supervision. The budget for the Design and Implementation of an Assessment Program for Teachers and Education Assistants is approximately $40,000.

(c) The Department of Education tender to tertiary institutions to conduct Italian, Indonesian and Japanese courses. [15 - 18 October 2001] E849

Funding sources: The Commonwealth Government through National Asian Language and Studies in Australian Schools Strategy to retrain teachers in Asian languages; The Department of Education funds retraining courses in 4-week intensive modules through its tender process at a cost of approximately $30,000 for the program. The cost per person depends on the number of participants and whether they are from country or metropolitan areas and may include travel, accommodation and teacher relief. Final year scholarships are available for applicants to complete a final year of teacher training to become a LOTE teacher.

Question: Hon Barbara Scott asked - (1) What was the restructuring cost, or what is the predicted cost, in redundancies and salaried adjustments? (2) What savings have been made, if any, by dismantling the early childhood directorate? (3) What was the number of officers who took redundancies?

Answer: (1)-(2) In addition to the $363 000 identified under the Machinery of Government changes for three officers, four other officers took redundancy at a total cost of $381 456. Savings of about $10 000 is expected from the structural change to the Early Childhood Education area. (3) Seven officers.

Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked - (1) Is EDWA still funding principals’ associations? How much and to what groups? (2) What proportion of the education budget is spent on private schools? (3) How is the figure arrived at? (4) What is the breakdown of expenditure on private school education from the State Budget? What will be the trend in future years? (5) What government subsidies are given to private schools? (6) What government support is provided on services such as water, electricity, school buses to private schools? Please provide a breakdown.

Answer: (1) Yes - Funding was provided in 2000/01 for principals associations as follows:- $ WA Primary Principals’ Association 34,000 WA Secondary School Executives’ Association Inc 21,000 WA District High School Administrators’ Association 18,000 WA Education Support Principals’ Association 6,300 WA Subject Teaching Administrators’ Association 14,000 WA Primary Deputy Principals’ Association 17,200

(2) 0.14% (3) This is based on the estimated expenditure in 2001/02 for non-government school students for the following assistance as a proportion of the total cost of services by the Education Department of $2.186 Billion: Boarding Away from Home Allowance - $1.5 Million Secondary Assistance - $1.1 Million Clothing Allowance - $.04 Million

(4)&(5) The 2001/02 Education Services Budget Estimate for expenditure in the form of direct grants and subsidies paid to, or on behalf of, private schools includes:

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$m General per capita grants 154.173 Low Interest Loan Scheme interest subsidies 7.892 Computers in schools grants 5.000 Special education per capita grants 1.879 Non-Government School Psychology Service Grant 1.646 Loan interest subsidies (old scheme) 0.768 Students at Educational Risk Project Grants 0.289 Parents and Friends’ Federation Subsidy 0.069 New schools reading foundation grants 0.040 New schools stock grants 0.027 Forward estimates for expenditure on per capita grants show increases due to expected enrolment increases in non-government schools and increases flowing from the indexation of grants. Computers in schools grants (approved under the previous Government) cease in 2001/02. Low Interest Loan Scheme interest subsidies increase each year due to the cumulative costs of the annual lending program. Old loan scheme interest subsidies are in decline as old loans are paid out. Other grants and subsidies remain more or less fixed. (6) There is no provision in the Education Services Budget for water, electricity or transport subsidies for private schools. The cost of transport subsidies should be referred to the Minister for Transport and any cost of reduced water service charges should be referred to the Minister for Water Resources. No subsidies for electricity services are known to exist. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked: Can the Department provide, either now or on notice, some data on the spending in this budget on government schools compared with that in other States? Answer: Comparable figures for this budget are not available for other States. The latest available comparable data is from the National Schools Statistics Collection for the financial year 1999/2000. The report presents per capita expenditure for each of the States and Territories in both a cash and accrual format. These tables are reproduced below. PER CAPITA COSTS COMPARISONS 1999/2000 Total Per Capita Expenditure Cash Accrual State/Territory $ $ New South Wales 6,264 7,158 Victoria 6,171 7,823 Queensland 6,259 8,353 South Australia 6,485 7,500 Western Australia 6,792 7,494 Tasmania 6,486 7,593 Northern Territory 9,336 12,664 Australian Capital Territory 6,267 7,966 Australia 6,358 7,699

Notes: (1) Costs include both capital and recurrent outlays. (2) Accrual cost comparisons across the States and Territories need to be treated with caution as they are not strictly comparable due to the differing accounting policies of each jurisdiction. Question: Hon Jon Ford asked: The second last dot point of the capital works program on page 1069 refers to $4.5 million asbestos cement roof replacement program. How many schools still need this work? Answer: The following schools will have asbestos-cement roofs replaced during 2001/2002. By 30 June 2002, it is anticipated that all asbestos-cement roofs in schools will have been replaced - [15 - 18 October 2001] E851

Applecross Senior High School Attadale Primary School Belmont Primary School Bentley Primary School Cadoux Primary School Carnamah District High School Central Midlands Senior High School City Beach High School Corrigin District High School Cunderdin Agricultural College Denmark Agricultural College Dumbleyung Primary School Duncraig Senior High School East Greenwood Primary School Goolellal Primary School Guildford Primary School Harvey Senior High School Heathridge Primary School Hope Valley Primary School Koonawarra Primary School Kulin District High School Lake Grace District High School Mirrabooka Senior High School Morley Primary School Mount Hawthorn Primary School Mount Lockyer Primary School Narrogin Agricultural College Narrogin Senior High School Nollamara Primary School North Perth Primary School Picton Primary School Pinjarra Primary School Rossmoyne Senior High School Safety Bay Senior High School South Perth Primary School Tranby Primary School Wanneroo Senior High School Wickepin Primary School Willetton Primary School Yarloop Primary School Yule Brook College Question: Hon Ljiljanna Ravlich MLC asked whether a study has been conducted on the opportunity cost that might have occurred as a result of the previous Government having not provided the appropriate support network to the learning technologies project? Does the Department know the amount of that cost? Is it possible to provide the amount of how much those 240 FTEs are worth? Answer: The Department of Education conducted a survey of 67 representative schools and then extrapolated that to the total school population to determine the approximate cost of school funded information technology support. This resulted in an estimated 246.3 FTE at a total cost of $11.1 million to be used for this purpose. Question: Hon Norman Moore asked - (1) Last year, there was a cash surplus of $61.5 million that brought the total cash assets to $201 million. What was the reason for the large cash surplus last year, and, in a general sense, what is the purpose of such a large cash reserve?

E852 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

(2) In a broad budgetary sense, why is it planned to run down the cash reserve by $22 million this year, hold it relatively stable for the next two years, and then run it down by a significant $54 million in the last year, 2004/05? Why not run the reserves down earlier to relieve some of the budgetary pressures in the next two years? Answer: (1) The additional cash surplus of $61.5 million accumulated in 2000/01 mainly comprises the following: Increases in school cash balances reflecting greater emphasis on self-management. ($7.0 million). Additional Commonwealth Program advances to be expended in the 2001/02 financial year. ($13.5 million) Increase in the balance of the School Development and Improvement Trust from asset sales. ($7.7 million) Deferred payment by Treasury in 2000/01 for the 1999/00 appropriation shortfall. ($10.0 million) Additional appropriation provided by Treasury in 2000/01 for Enterprise Agreement costs falling due in 2001/02. ($6.7 million) Provision for an additional fortnightly employee pay period falling due in 2004/05 ($5.4 million) Other program commitments ($11.2 million) carried forward to 2001/02 including: E2c concept trial in the Fremantle District Upgrade of the Department’s payroll system Carryover of commitments for the automatic irrigation program The cash balance of $201 million mainly comprises schools ($98 million) which receive funding early in the school year but have expenditure commitments mainly falling after June 30. Other components are Commonwealth program advances and other trust accounts ($52 million) and the provision for the additional fortnightly employee pay period falling due in 2004/05 ($32 million). (2) Cash balances will reduce during 2001/02 as expenditure commitments, described in (d) above, are carried out during the year. The reduction of $54 million in 2004/05 can be attributed to the additional cash payments required for the additional fortnightly employee pay period falling due in 2004/05. Question: Hon Norman Moore asked - (1) Have any Senior Executive Officers of the Education Department taken a redundancy package, and if so, who and why? (2) Were any of these officers encouraged to take redundancy and if so, who were they and who encouraged them? (3) Were all decisions relating to the filling of the acting positions, created by the redundancies, made by the Acting Director General, or was the Minister or his office staff involved in any way? Answer: (1) Seven officers have taken voluntary redundancy. These officers were: Stephen Home Neil Jarvis Di Kerr Pam Duckworth Gregory Martin Julian Krieg Eve Lucas Some of these officers accepted the Management Initiated Redundancy packages offered as a part of the Machinery of Government Report whilst others requested redundancy resulting from recommendations in the Report “Investing in Government Schools: Putting Children First”. (2) I am not aware of any officer being encouraged to take redundancy. I understand that the Acting Director General has initiated investigation by an independent inquirer to address any allegations in this area. (3) All decisions relating to the filling of the acting positions were made by the Acting Director General or a panel of senior officers from within the Department. Question: Hon Robyn Sweeney MLC asked: What was the figure on the social-emotional continuum? Answer: $158 500 has been allocated to the Social-Emotional Continuum in the 1999/2000 and 2000/2001 financial years. [15 - 18 October 2001] E853

Question: Hon Simon O’Brien asked - (1) Does the Department intend to continue the hearing and sight health check –up of four year olds? If so, will that take place in the kindergarten or pre-primary year. (2) In November last year the Standing Committee on Estimates and Financial Operations lodged Report No. 33 relating to the dental health of Aboriginal children in the Kimberley. The committee recommended that, as a public health measure, a dental hygiene program including toothbrushes, toothpaste and a regular session every day at school be implemented in schools in the area. Has the Minister for Health or the Department of Health followed that up with the Department of Education?

Answer: (1)-(2) The Department of Health has advised that this service is provided by them. The Department of Education is not aware of any special initiatives coming from the Department of Health. However, many schools have had special dental health programs for several years involving children cleaning their teeth. These programs may have had some incidental support from health officers but are largely school activities.

Question on Notice submitted by Hon Derrick Tomlinson MLC - (1) Is the program proceeding for the Department of Education to purchase properties on the western side of Mathoura Street to expand the grounds of Midvale Primary School? (2) If yes, how many properties (a) had been purchased and (b) remain to be purchased before the project is completed? (3) What was the total cost of the properties already purchased and what is the estimated cost of properties to be purchased? (4) Is it still intended that other public services for children and families will be co-located with Midvale Primary School? (5) When is it planned to commence the redevelopment of Midvale Primary School?

Answer: (1) The Department of Education is proceeding with the purchase of properties on the eastern side of Mathoura Street to allow for the expansion and redevelopment of Midvale Primary School. (2) (a) The Department has purchased 2 properties and 2 units. (b) At present the Department proposes to purchase an additional 8 properties and 7 units. (3) The total cost of properties purchased to date is $366,026. The current estimated cost to purchase the proposed additional properties is $1.5 million. (4) Yes. (5) The redevelopment is proposed to commence in July 2003.

Question on Notice submitted by Hon Robin Chapple - (1) Who is responsible for administering the portion of NIELNS education funding earmarked for Port Hedland? (2) How has this funding been spent in the Port Hedland area? (3) What process of community consultation exists regarding this funding? Answer: (1) The NIELN Strategy involves the Department of Education, Catholic Education and Aboriginal Independent Schools of WA managing various elements of the total program. A NIELN Committee within the Hedland district administers the funding distribution. (2) Funding for Element 1, Initiative 1.5, Community and Industry Education Compacts has been used to commence negotiation for Student, School to Work program with BHP. The Bilateral Agreement for NIELN Strategy was signed off on 25 June 2001 and limited funding has been released to the three education sectors. (3) The District NIELN Committee established by District Director of the Hedland District Education Office in Term 4, 2000 was required to have community representatives.

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Division 63: Education Services - Question: Hon Alan Cadby asked in relation to attracting additional Commonwealth funds for higher education, did the Government, prior to the framing of the budget, have discussions with the tertiary institutions on using payroll tax as leverage for Commonwealth funding? If so, why did the Government decide not to proceed with the proposition, after agreeing, when in opposition, that it was a good idea? Answer: The Department is unaware of any discussions held with the tertiary institutions. Question: Hon Barbara Scott asked questions in relation to p 1113, Grants to Charitable and Other Public Bodies, specifically grants to Parkerville Children’s Home, Meerilinga Young Children’s Foundation and Fremantle Children’s Literature Centre. Answer: Grants to these institutions were transferred to the Department of Education in 2001/02 as part of the Machinery of Government recommendations. Question: Hon Ed Dermer asked for advice about any differential trends in demand (for low interest loans) between primary school and the senior school sector, and also between Catholic and independent school sectors; and any emerging patterns of changing demand. Answer: It is difficult to gauge demand specifically for primary as distinct from secondary facilities as there are some differences in the educational structure of Catholic schools and independent schools. In general, over the last six years, about 50% of demand for loans in Catholic schools has been for secondary school facilities, 40% for primary schools and 10% for K-12 schools, whereas in the independent school sector, about 75% of demand has been from K-12 schools, 13% from primary schools and 12% from secondary schools. Demand patterns are expected to be maintained for the foreseeable future. Overall demand for loans from within the Catholic school sector is controlled as a system by the Catholic Education Office. This demand has generally been satisfied from the annual allocations of loan funds to the Catholic Education Office. Demand from independent schools has not been controlled to the same extent and this lead to a disproportionate number of loan applications (relative to the Catholic sector) unable to be funded. However, the Government recently introduced new processes for prioritising loan applications involving the Association of Independent Schools and this is expected to improve the management of demand.

Division 36: Western Australian Electoral Commission - Question: Hon George Cash asked - (a) Is the Western Australian Electoral Commission subject to the Government’s priority dividend? (b) What do the $52,000 in brackets and the other amounts for the out years in brackets represent? Answer: (a) Yes. (b) These amounts represent the savings requested by Government as the Priority and Assurance Dividend. These savings will be met by the Commission by reductions in data processing charges and in programming changes associated with the Electoral Roll Management System. Question: Hon Frank Hough asked: At the last election there was a subject dispute in the Mining and Pastoral Region. The Hon. John Fischer was elected on Hon. Mark Nevill’s preferences. Hon. Mark Nevill had to hand on 4,033 votes and Hon. John Fischer needed 1283 votes. Hon. John Fischer received 1200 of those votes, but the surplus of Hon. Mark Nevill’s votes were not distributed as per his clear request that the Liberal Party be placed ahead of the Greens (WA). Why did the Commission not follow the instructions of Hon. Mark Nevill and allocate his preferences correctly? Answer: At the point in the count at which Hon. Mark Nevill was excluded pursuant to clause 8 of Schedule 1 of the Electoral Act 1907, Mr John Fischer required a further 1,214 votes to achieve a quota. Mr Nevill’s 4,820 first preference votes (consisting of 4,252 ticket votes and 568 preference votes) were distributed first in accordance with clause 8 (a) of Schedule 1. Of these votes, a total of 4,397 votes were allocated to Mr Fischer according to either Mr Nevill’s voting ticket (4,252) or the preferences of electors (145) depending upon which side of the ballot paper was marked. This figure was sufficient to cause Mr Fischer to achieve the necessary quota for him to be declared elected. As Mr Nevill had 376 remaining votes to be distributed to complete his exclusion, these votes were dealt with in accordance with clause 8 (b) of Schedule 1 prior to further consideration being given to the votes held by Mr Fischer. These 376 votes were distributed to the two remaining candidates according to the preferences marked by the electors. At the time of election Mr Fischer had received a total of 11,874 votes, creating a surplus of 3,183 votes. This surplus therefore needed to be distributed in accordance with the provisions of Schedule 1. Pursuant to clause 9 of Schedule 1, [15 - 18 October 2001] E855 the 3,183 surplus votes from Mr Fischer were distributed in accordance with clauses 4 (a) and 4 (b). Under clause 4 (a) of the Schedule: “the number of surplus votes of the elected candidate [3,183] shall be divided by the number of first preference votes [refer clause 7 below] received by him and the resulting fraction shall be the transfer value;”. Clause 7 provides, inter alia, that: “for the purposes of the application of clause 4 (a) and 4 (b) in relation to a transfer under clause 5 or 9 of the surplus votes of an elected candidate , each ballot paper of the elected candidate that was obtained by him on a transfer under this Schedule shall be treated as if any vote it expressed for the elected candidate were a preference vote, as if the name of any other candidate previously elected or excluded had not been on the ballot paper and as if the numbers indicating subsequent preferences had been altered accordingly.” The effect of clause 7 is that all ballot papers allocated to Mr Fischer at the time of his election were to contribute to the calculation of the transfer value. While Mr Fischer was elected with 11,874 votes this was made up of 11,974 ballot papers as some of the ballot papers received were subject to an earlier transfer value. Thus, to calculate the transfer value specified under clause 4 (a) the following formula was used - the number of surplus votes of the elected candidate the number of first preference votes = 3,183 11,974 = 0.26582596 The transfer value indicates that each ballot paper contained approximately 26.58% more value than Mr Fischer required to achieve a quota. This transfer value was then applied in accordance with clause 4 (b), which states: “the total number of ballot papers of the elected candidate that express the first preference vote [refer clause 7 above] for him and the next available preference for a particular continuing candidate shall be multiplied by the transfer value, the number so obtained (disregarding any fraction) shall be added to the number of first preference votes of the continuing candidate and all those ballot papers shall be transferred to the continuing candidate.” In the above case the total number of ballot papers that expressed a first preference vote for Mr Fischer and the next available preference for a particular continuing candidate, either Mr Greg Smith or Mr Robin Chapple, numbered 11,974, as explained in the attachments. Of the 11,974 ballot papers held by Mr Fischer 7,333 expressed a higher preference for Mr Chapple and 4,641 expressed a higher preference for Mr Smith. Applying the transfer value of 0.26582596 this gave Mr Chapple 1949 additional votes and Mr Smith 1233 additional votes. The final totals were then: Candidate Total Votes (First Preference Votes) Robin Chapple (GRN) 9,166 (2,277) Greg Smith (LIB) 8,165 (47) Furthermore, of these 11,974 ballot papers, 4,397 were received from the final transfer of votes from Mr Nevill as directed by clause 4 (b) above. Of these 4,397 votes from Mr Nevill, 4,252 were from electors who had marked their ballot paper by casting a ticket vote directly for Mr Nevill and the group he represented. The remaining 145 ballot papers were marked by electors in accordance with their own individual wishes. Of the 145 ballot papers marked by electors with their own preferences, 57 indicated their next available preference for Mr Smith, while the remaining 88 ballot papers indicated the next available preference for Mr Chapple. The transfer of the 4,397 votes that Mr Fischer received from Mr Nevill therefore proceeded according to the following table. Ballot Papers Transfer Value Votes Transferred Ticket votes indicating the next available preference for Mr Smith 4,252 0.26582596 1130 Preference votes indicating the next available preference for Mr Smith 57 0.26582596 15 Subtotal of votes for Mr Smith 4,309 1145 Preference votes indicating the next available preference for Mr Chapple 88 0.26582596 23 Total 4,397 0.26582596 1168 All ballot papers were therefore transferred in accordance with the wishes of the electors who indicated a preference for Mr Nevill and in accordance with Schedule 1 of the Electoral Act 1907.

E856 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Attachment 1 – Summary of the flow of preferences from John Fischer in the Mining and Pastoral Region for the 2001 State General Election

Quota: 8691

Fischer Chapple Nevill Smith Lost by Fraction*

First preference votes for continuing candidates 7073 2277 4820 47 ...... Votes for continuing candidates immediately prior 7477 6808 5196 6547 to the exclusion of Hon. Mark Nevill Exclusion of Hon. Mark Nevill 4397 188 -4820 235

Hon. John Fischer elected 11874 6996 376 6782 Remainder of votes from Hon. Mark Nevill 221 -376 150 5 (ie not first preferences) ^ Subtotal 11874 7217 0 6932 5

- Quota: -8691

=Surplus 3183 7217 0 6932 5 Distribution of votes from Hon. John Fischer's surplus From the first preferences of Hon. Mark Nevill -1168 23 1145 From the first preferences of Hon. John Fischer -2015 1926 88 1 or votes distributed to him during the count Subtotal -3183 1949 1233 1

Total (Hon. Robin Chapple declared elected) 0 9166 0 8165 6

Calculation of the Transfer Value Number of ballot papers held by Hon. John 11974 see attached sheet Fischer at the time of his election

Transfer Value = 3183

11974

= 0.26582596

* Under clause 4 (b) of Schedule 1 of the Electoral Act 1907 the votes to added to each candidate on a transfer disregard any fraction. Where the transferred votes of two or more candidates have remainders that together represent a full vote, this vote is recorded as a Loss by Fraction in the count.

^ The 376 votes distributed at this point were actually distributed on multiple separate transfers in the order at which the Hon. Mark Nevill received these votes from other candidates. The total of 5 votes as a Loss by Fraction is an accumulation of fractions of votes from these multiple distributions.

[15 - 18 October 2001] E857

Attachment 2 – Actual distribution of surplus votes from John Fischer 2001 STATE GENERAL ELECTION LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL WA ELECTORAL COMMISSION MPR01 MINING & PASTORAL REGION : Detailed ResultsPrinted 20/02/01 11:08 Page 331 ------Transfer of votes from candidate FISCHER, John Surplus Votes 3183 11974 ballot-papers to be distributed at a fraction 0.26582596 = 3183 divided by 11974 Count Number 328 B/Fwd B.Pprs Votes Progress Votes Rcv'd Rcv'd Votes 1 FISCHER, John elected 11874 -11974 -3183 8691 2 TREMBATH, Wayne excluded 0 0 0 0 3 WYBORN, Irene excluded 0 0 0 0 4 CHAPPLE, Robin 7217 7333 1949 9166 5 LUDLAM, Scott excluded 0 0 0 0 6 STEPHENS, Tom elected:1st pref 8691 0 0 8691 7 FORD, Jon elected 8691 0 0 8691 8 LEAHY, Kevin excluded 0 0 0 0 9 TASSELL, Liz excluded 0 0 0 0 10 VINCENT, Margaret excluded 0 0 0 0 11 ANDERTON, Mike excluded 0 0 0 0 12 NEVILL, Mark excluded 0 0 0 0 13 SPARGO, Randy excluded 0 0 0 0 14 SIBOSADO, Janenell excluded 0 0 0 0 15 HELM, Tom excluded 0 0 0 0 16 MILLS, Diane excluded 0 0 0 0 17 HODDY, Don excluded 0 0 0 0 18 HEALD, Pam excluded 0 0 0 0 19 MASLEN, Dudley excluded 0 0 0 0 20 AUSBURN, Paul excluded 0 0 0 0 21 KNEEBONE, Peter excluded 0 0 0 0 22 MOORE, Norman elected:1st pref 8691 0 0 8691 23 SMITH, Greg 6932 4641 1233 8165 24 SCOTT, Isabelle excluded 0 0 0 0 25 BASTON, Ken excluded 0 0 0 0 26 FAWCETT, John excluded 0 0 0 0 27 COOPER, Vin excluded 0 0 0 0 28 KENNEDY, Murray excluded 0 0 0 0 Exhausted 0 0 0 0 Lost Fractions 48 0 1 49 *** TOTALS *** 52144 0 0 52144 CHAPPLE, Robin has been elected. The following candidates have been elected: STEPHENS, Tom MOORE, Norman FORD, Jon FISCHER, John CHAPPLE, Robin = = = Lewis COMPU-VOTE = = =

E858 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Attachment 3 - Allocation of first preference votes received by Hon Mark Nevill

First Preference Votes received by Hon. Mark Nevill 4820

First Preference votes distributed to Hon. John Fischer. First Preference votes distributed to other continuing (Ticket Votes – 4252, Preference Votes - 145) candidates. (Preference Votes – 423) 4397 423

First Preference votes originating from First preference votes originating from Hon. Mark Nevill distributed via Hon. Hon. Mark Nevill distributed via Hon. John Fischer to Mr Greg Smith. John Fischer to Hon. Robin Chapple. 4309 88

Transfer Value 0.26582596

Number of votes allocated to Mr Number of votes allocated to Hon. Greg Smith from votes originating Robin Chapple from votes from Hon. Mark Nevill. originating from Hon. Mark Nevill. 1145 23

Division 41: Environmental Protection - Question from Hon Bruce Donaldson MLC: Page 31 - What is the explanation for the reduction in grants from industries which will drop from an average of $3 million over each of the past two years to $1.835 million next year and less than $500,000 for each of the next two years? Answer: The reduction in the grants from industries is explained by the fact that department currently receives revenue from Waste Track, a function that is planned to be devolved to the Water Corporation. Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: I refer to page 673 of volume 2, output measures, average cost per contaminated site assessment and ask why there is a decreased target, what is meant by “associated re-allocation of funding” and why that has increased the unit cost? Answer: The decreased target reflects an alteration in the output measures. Last financial year, output targets were based upon the provision of advice to the EPA, Evaluation Division of the DEP and external clients of the DEP. This financial year, advice to the EPA has been separated out from the total and hence the target now has decreased. The unit cost has increased because additional resources have been directed towards this work, resulting in an increased unit cost. Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: From the previous question, I would like to know what is being found on contaminated sites. I would like to know what is being found by way of contamination as you carry out these assessments. Answer: Assessment of sites by the DEP involves reviewing site investigation, remediation and management reports voluntarily provided by private proponents for the purposes of acquisition, divestiture or redevelopment of a site. Reports are provided directly to the Contaminated Sites Section of the DEP, or are provided via the planning approval [15 - 18 October 2001] E859 process through the EPA, Ministry for Planning or WAPC. Occasionally, as a result of impacts identified to the environment such as marine environment, impacts to domestic groundwater bore supplies and odours emanating from sites, the WRC has been requested to investigate soil and groundwater quality at a site. These sites have historically become State government “orphan sites”, such as Omex, Albany Gasworks and Morangup. Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: How far through the total assessment process are you, or do you believe you are? Answer: It is anticipated that there are at least 2000 sites within the Perth Metropolitan Area that have the potential to cause significant environmental pollution. Of these sites, 500 have so far been proven to have caused soil and groundwater contamination. Under the current legislative framework, the Environmental Protection Act 1986, contaminated sites are only voluntarily reported to the DEP. Nevertheless, due to an increased awareness of contaminated site issues with industry and the community, sites are increasingly being reported to the DEP; currently at a rate of around 4 new sites a week. The proposed Contaminated Sites Bill provides for all known or suspected contaminated sites to be reported to the DEP, the number of sites reported is therefore expected to increase significantly. Questions from Hon Peter Foss MLC: Are you finding more or less contamination than you expected to, and what are you going to do about it? Answer: As stated above, it is estimated that there are at least 2000 sites within the Perth Metropolitan Area that have the potential to cause significant environmental pollution. Enactment of the proposed Contaminated Sites Bill and the mandatory reporting of sites to the DEP will confirm if this estimate is correct. However, given the history of the types of sites reported to the DEP, it is expected to be a representative number. The proposed Contaminated Sites Bill sets out a clear hierarchy for assignment of liability for investigation and remediation of sites. The emphasis is placed upon the polluter being the party responsible for investigation and remediation of sites. It is anticipated that market forces will drive the investigation and remediation of sites via reducing liability associated with the transfer of land. In addition, the Bill provides for the issue of Investigation, Clean-up or Hazard Abatement Notices where the investigation or remedial work has not been completed to the satisfaction of the DEP. Question from Hon Giz Watson MLC: In relation to the reference to disposal of 500 tonnes of intractable waste at Mt Walton, what is the source and nature of the Waste? Answer: The planned waste disposal operation involving intractable waste during 2002, includes materials such as arsenic waste and contaminated process piping from CSBP Wesfarmers, and various low level radioactive waste from Royal Perth Hospital and the University of Western Australia. Question from Hon George Cash MLC: I refer to the priority and assurance dividend listed at page 666 - which programs does the department intend to cut in order to achieve the dividend and does the Government intend to impose a penalty on departments that do not achieve their budgeted dividend? Answer: I refer the Honourable Member to the answer provided to the Hon Simon O’Brien relating to the same matter. Questions from Hon Christine Sharp MLC: I have a series of questions about output 2 – dealt with on page 671 of the Budget Statements. (a) In 1999/2000 there were 1094 completed audits, how many of these involved site visits as opposed to desktop audits? (b) How many projects on the books are active under implementation conditions? (c) Of the breaches that were found in audits, why were only 51% rectified? Answer: (a) There has been a redefinition of the measure for site audits, which makes comparison a little difficult. In 2000/2001, 110 audits were undertaken comprising 30 site and 80 desk audits. In 1999/2000 38 site audits were conducted. (b) In 1999/2000, 263 projects were active, that is, they may have required an audit during the year. (c) Rectification of breaches represents a new measure for 2001/2002 and since the establishment of this measure more complete data has become available, indicating % non-compliance rectified exceeding 80%. Questions from the Hon Peter Foss MLC: What is the amount allocated for environmental grants in the coming year and what is the process of allocating those grants? Answer: The Department of Environmental Protection does not allocate any environmental grants other than grants administered through the Waste Management and Recycling Fund.

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Questions from the Hon Robin Chapple MLC: Have suitable staff been attracted to the Kalgoorlie area since the temporary closure of the Kalgoorlie regional office and how many applications has the department received for the position? Answer: Since the temporary closure of the Kalgoorlie regional office, an environmental officer position was advertised in which 19 applications were received. The Branch Manager position is being filled on a relief basis, and this arrangement will continue until the amalgamation of the Water and Rivers Commission and Department of Environmental Protection into the new Department of Environment, Water and Catchment Protection is completed. Questions from Hon Dr Christine Sharp MLC: Output 2 Environmental Impact Services - (a) How many Vetos are dedicated to audit function? (b) Trend over recent years? (since 1993) (c) P.671, 1094 Audits (i) How many involved actual site visits as opposed to desk top audits? (ii) How many projects overall are “active” under implementation conditions? (d) Why only 51% standard of rectification? (e) How will this 51% be improved? (f) Third party right to prosecute breaches – is this planned for inclusion in amendments to the EP Act? Answer: (a) There are currently 6.3 FTEs allocated to the compliance audit function. (b) The FTE allocation has been increased by 1.5 since 1993. (c) (i) There has been a redefinition of the measure for site audits, which makes comparison a little difficult. In 2000/2001, 110 audits were undertaken (comprising 30 site and 80 desk). In 1999/2000, 38 site audits were conducted. (ii) In 1999/2000, 263 projects were active, that is they may have required an audit during the year. (d) This represents a new measure for 2001/2002 and since the establishment of this measure more complete data has become available, indicating % non-compliance rectified exceeding 80%. (e) Answered by (d). (f) The right for a third party to prosecute breaches is not planned for inclusion in the Act amendments. Questions from Hon Giz Watson MLC: (a) I refer to the budget papers page 671 in relation to formal assessments. (i) Why is it estimated that the number of formal assessments will reduce? (ii) Does this indicate that less projects are being assessed as requiring formal assessment? (iii) If yes to ii), what is the reason/s for this change? (b) I refer to the budget papers page 673 regarding contaminated sites. (i) Has the DEP produced a comprehensive map of all contaminated sites in Western Australia? (ii) Will the Minister provide this map? (iii) If no to ii), why not? Answer: (a) (i) It is estimated that the number of formal assessments will reduce due to lower than expected economic growth, which is expected to result in less major development proposals being referred to the EPA. (ii) Yes. (iii) Answered by (i). (b) (i) No. Under the current legislative framework, the Environmental Protection Act 1986, contaminated sites are reported to the DEP on a voluntary basis only. The DEP has records for around 550 sites. However, based on potentially contaminating activities known to the DEP, it is estimated that many sites exist which have not yet been reported to the DEP. [15 - 18 October 2001] E861

The proposed Contaminated Sites Bill provides for mandatory reporting of all known or suspected contaminated sites by polluters, owners or occupiers of sites, or by the general public. Confirmed contaminated sites will be listed on a publicly available data base, and it is planned that this will be linked through a GIS based map. (ii) No - answered by (i). (iii) Not applicable. Questions from Hon Robin Chapple MLC: (a) Does the EPA believe that it is adequately resourced, and - (i) What proportion of EPA/DEWCP budget is being spent on rental? (ii) What proportion of EPA/DEWCP budget is being spent on officer training and career development? (b) On average, how many hours is an officer allowed to assess all proposals – ie. the number of proposals per FTE as an hourly figure, removing from this figure any allocated time of that FTE to any other program (for example EPA, Sustainability Unity within Premier & Cabinet, etc.). (c) How many officers are presently engaged in the development of EPPs? (i) What is the average time for an EPP to be developed or reviewed? Answer: The Department of Environment, Water and Catchment Protection has not yet been established as it requires significant legislative change. The Department of Environmental Protection and the Water and Rivers Commission will be amalgamated to form the new department once the necessary legislative changes have occurred. The answers to the questions have therefore been provided on the basis that they relate to the Environmental Protection Authority and the current Department of Environmental Protection. (a) The principal resources available to the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) are the Environmental Impact Assessment Division and the Policy and Co-ordination Division of the Department of Environmental Protection. The staff are competent and committed to achieving outcomes which protect the environment, and prevent and abate pollution. Whilst it can always be argued that additional resources are needed, the resources allocated provide an efficient service to enable the EPA to carry out its current functions under the Environmental Protection Act 1986. (i) The office rental accommodation represents 11.74% of the Department of Environmental Protection’s operational budget. (ii) Officer training and career development represents 0.5 % of the DEP’s operational budget. (b) There is no time restriction in the assessment of proposals, as proposals differ significantly according to their level of complexity. (c) There are 3.5 FTEs primarily involved in the development of EPPs. This is augmented, on a needs basis, by relevant technical officers from within the DEP and from outside agencies. It is not possible to quantify the augmented assistance. (i) The development or review of EPPs varies widely in the nature and scope, therefore, it is not possible to provide an average time. Question from Hon Simon O’Brien MLC: I refer to page 666 of the budget papers. One of the major policy decisions is the priority assurance dividend shown for this financial year with estimated savings of $1.035 million. Where have those cuts been made? Answer: The Department of Environmental Protection made cuts totaling $1.496 million to accommodate the priority and assurances dividend and travel and consultancy reduction. The cuts were made in the following areas:

DIVISION DESCRIPTION $ (k) Pollution Prevention No further regulations for registered premises 100 Pollution Prevention Reduced response to advice requests 30 Evaluation Reduce review of referrals 100 Evaluation Reduce assessments 150 Evaluation Stop preparation of guidance statements 100 Environmental Systems Reduce DEP actions under Salinity strategy 75

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Environmental Systems Reduce implementation of AQMP 448 Environmental Systems Reduce GIS projects 10 Policy Stop preparation of Codes of Practise 21 Policy Reduce Bush Forever involvement 60 Policy Reduce commonwealth interaction 4 Policy Wind back EPP program 8 Waste Management Reduce Waste reduction activities 70 Corporate Service Reduce floor space for office 50 Corporate Service No legal officer 60 Corporate Service No library 80 Corporate Service Reduce finance by one person 45 Corporate Service Reduce HR by one person 50 Corporate Service Remove "ex accommodation officer" 35 TOTAL $1.496 m

Division 15: Fisheries - Question: Hon Giz Watson asked - (a) With reference to page 274, bullet points Nos 5 and 9 - Development and incorporation of ESD processes and protocols into management arrangements for the major commercial fisheries. Examples given include Shark Bay Prawn and Scallop Trawl Fisheries, and given these fisheries are within the Shark Bay Marine Park and Shark Bay world heritage area - (i) what are the current figures for by-catch mortality in these fisheries? (ii) What is the composition of this by-catch? (iii) What is the impact of this by-catch on the biodiversity of the Shark Bay Marine Park? (iv) Will the minister table figures for by-catch weight and composition for the past 10 years in these fisheries? (v) If no to (iv), why not? (vi) Is information on the incidental take of listed endangered species such as turtle in these fisheries required to be recorded and provided to Fisheries WA, World Heritage and the Department of Conservation and Land Management? (vii) If no to (vi), why not? (viii) If such information is required, will the minister provide figures for the past 10 years? (ix) Who logs this information? (x) Is this information verified by Fisheries WA or any independent observer? (xi) Can the minister provide evidence of the performance of “more efficient and effective by-catch reduction devices”? (b) With reference to page 287, bullet point nine, regarding marine pest incursions - (i) What incursions occurred in the last year that Fisheries is aware of; for example, what species was introduced and at what locations? (ii) What action was taken? (iii) What, if any, is the trend in number and severity of marine pest incursions in WA waters? Answer: (a) (i) Research into trawl by-catch reduction devices is currently in progress in Shark Bay and to a lesser extent in Exmouth Gulf. The mortality of the species taken in these trawl fisheries is not being [15 - 18 October 2001] E863

specifically studied. However, there is general information available from similar prawn and scallop fisheries in Queensland (Wassenber and Hill 1990). (ii) The dominant components of the by-catch in the Shark Bay trawl fisheries is dead wire weed which naturally breaks off from the Wooramel sea grass banks during summer, small fish species, crabs, rays and sharks. Few of the fish species concerned are subject to other forms of fishing. (iii) Trawling has been assessed as a low risk to the biodiversity in Shark Bay. The major sensitive areas in Shark Bay were permanently closed to trawling as prawn nursery areas in the early 1960s. These closures now form the majority of the Shark Bay Marine Park. Under the relevant trawl management plans, trawling is only possible in a relatively small area of Shark Bay (<50 per cent) and only for a period of around eight months a year. Of the area that is legally permitted to be trawled, only around 38 per cent of this is trawled due to targeting of known areas where prawns and scallops are commercially abundant. As such, about 80 per cent of the bay is not trawled and is considered to provide sufficient protection to maintain biodiversity of this region. (iv) No. (v) Specific information on the assessed weight and composition of the by-catch is not being collected. (vi) No. (vii) There is no legislative requirement to report incidental captures of listed species to the Department of Fisheries, the Department of Conservation and Land Management or to the World Heritage Section of Environment Australia. Few listed species are taken in the Shark Bay trawl fisheries, and those taken eg. turtles, and sea snakes are returned to the sea alive. Due to the short duration of trawls in Shark Bay, typically less than one hour and the increasing use of By-catch Reduction Devices (BRDs) these species are rarely caught or harmed by capture. (viii) Not applicable. (ix) Not applicable. (x) Information on protected species is not recorded by commercial skippers, however independent researchers conducting by-catch reduction research aboard such vessels keep appropriate records. This information will be provided on the final report on the BRD project in late 2002. (xi) Bycatch reduction research has been under way since 1998 to redesign existing BRDs to make them suitable for the Shark Bay and Exmouth Gulf fisheries. As a result of this work between the industry and Department of Fisheries researchers, all Shark Bay prawn vessels will be installing BRDs in both nets from the start of the 2002 season. The Shark Bay Scallop Fishery will have bycatch reduction devices installed on one of the two nets, with two BRDs to be installed in future years. (b) (i) In December 2000, an Indonesian boat carrying illegal immigrants was brought into Broome. It was inspected by fisheries officers who reported that it was infected with black-striped mussels. (ii) The boat was kept five nautical miles from Broome until the people were unloaded. the Navy then towed it out of Australian waters and it was destroyed. (iii) There is no trend. Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked: With reference to Recreational Fisheries on page 21 of the Annual Report - (i) Can an update be provided of the status of the pipe, associated with a hydro scheme, which runs along the centre of several kilometres of the Lefroy Brook, having a major impact on the growing recreational fly fishing in that area? (ii) Are there likely to be any prosecutions and if so, which department is pursuing such prosecutions? Answer: (i) A committee of relevant agencies, local government and community groups has been established to consider the options for shifting the pipe and all the financial and ecological costs of doing so. (ii) Decisions relating to prosecutions are the responsibility of my colleague the Minister for the Environment.

Forest Products Commission Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked: With regard to the job advertisement in “The West Australian” on 29 September 2001 for a Public Affairs Manager, how does the minister justify $68 000 per annum for a Public Affairs Manager? Is this not an off-loading of the industry’s public relations task on to the taxpayer?

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Answer: It should first be noted that this is not a new position but to date has been filled on an acting basis, a situation that is being rectified. The Forest Products Commission has only the one position responsible for public affairs. This position assists the commission in responding to issues raised in the media, managing public notices of initiatives such as consultation about harvest plans and allocation of resource, and fulfilling the requirements of the Forest Products Act with regard to promotion of forest production as outlined in subsections 10(1)(d),(j) and (q) of the Act. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked: With regard to the indicative jarrah sawlog cut of 140 000 m3, does the minister acknowledge that this figure only includes an allowance for ESFM at whole of forest level, and not a local application of ESFM? Answer: The figure is based on existing knowledge and practices, since the Forest Management Plan has not yet identified any changes that would influence yield. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: The two matters in which I am particular interested are the inclusion of regenerated forest in national parks - I realise that at this stage it is only proposed, but it seems to have the same effect whether it is proposed or in existence - and the one per cent moratorium. There may be some overlap in the areas of the blocks that are concerned. I have here a list of what I understand to be the regenerated forest that has been included in national parks. I would like to know whether my list of the blocks is correct. In other words, what blocks are contained in the proposals, what area of land is involved, and what is the sustainable yield? Answer: Table 1 below lists the area of regrowth forest, by forest block, within each of the proposed national parks. These areas are the net addition to the reserve system - they exclude regrowth forest within informal reserves and areas that were previously set aside from timber harvesting under the 1994-2003 Forest Management Plan, Regional Forest Agreement, and the Ministerial Advisory Group on Karri and Tingle. The precise boundaries for many of the proposed new national parks are still under active consideration. The total area of jarrah regeneration within these areas is approximately 4 700 hectares, located mostly within the Warren region. Because these stands are very young, their estimated contribution to the sustained yield of first and second grade sawlogs during the period to 2040 averages only 100 cubic metres per annum. In the longer term, mainly in the period 2040 to 2200, the average contribution is 1 700 cubic metres per annum of grade 1 and 2 sawlogs. Approximately 8 300 hectares of regrowth karri forest are contained within the proposed park boundaries. In the short- term period to 2020, the estimated contribution from these stands to the sustained yield of first and second grade sawlog is approximately 2 500 cubic metres per annum. Over the period 2020 to 2150, the average annual sawlog production from these areas would be approximately 22 000 cubic metres. Most of the forest blocks listed in table 1 contain a mixture of old-growth, regrowth and ‘other’ non old-growth forest. There is a total of approximately 23 500 hectares of ‘other’ non old-growth forest. These stands have been previously cut-over and contain varied proportions of regrowth and mature trees. They would make a significant contribution to the short-term sustained yield of both jarrah and karri sawlog during the period to 2040. Table 1 Area of regrowth forest within proposed national parks (hectares) Proposed National Park Forest Block Regrowth area Boorara-Gardner Babbington 50 Boorara 150 Gardner 1,220 Boyndaminup Boyndaminup 60 Butler Butler 160 Darradup 30 Greater Beedelup Beavis 1,040 Carey 1,250 Giblett 40 Greater Dordagup Poole 70 Sutton 40 Greater Hawke Crowea 10 Dombakup 10 Greater Kingston Corbal 200 Dudijup 20 Dwalgan 30 Mersea 110 Hilliger Blackpoint 30 Hilliger 190 [15 - 18 October 2001] E865

Jane Jane 400 Lake Muir Chitelup 340 Poorginup 120 Spring 10 Walpole Wilderness Burnett 10 Dawson 310 Deep 880 Frankland 270 Harewood 10 Keystone 670 Lochart 1,990 Long 70 Mossop 20 Ordnance 30 Rocky 120 Sharpe 50 Swarbrick 670 Thomson 720 Wattle 50 Weld 70 Wye 1,460 Source: Forest Management Information System 23/10/01 Question: Hon Barry House asked: Following the regional forest agreement process a buy-out was put in place for the small timber mills. Which timber mills have already exited the industry through that scheme, which have current applications in place, and which are left that might qualify? Answer: Timber mills that have exited the industry through the Business Exit Assistance (BEA) program are Mangee Milling, Pickering Brook, Denbarker, and Thomson sawmills. All mills have been invited to apply for BEA ‘without prejudice’ and it would not be appropriate to name mills that have not received or accepted offers. However, of the 82 applications received to date, 42 have been from sawmills and of the 15 offers made to businesses, 13 have been to sawmills. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: I have some questions about exit package proposals. People are interested to know how much money will flow out for the rest of this financial year. From the assessment of the proposals and the rate at which they are being handled, can I have some idea of the rate at which the money will go into the community? What will happen to people who have made submissions that are not accepted? If they are not accepted, will the cost of the unsuccessful submission be included in the exit package? What is the average cost of the submissions? Answer: The 2001-02 financial year budget to fund the Business Exit Assistance program is $17 million with payments being made to businesses or individual persons. Applications for Business Exit Assistance are assessed for eligibility and those applicants who do not meet the eligibility criteria are not eligible to receive Business Exit Assistance. Each eligible application for Business Exit Assistance is individually assessed, by independent valuers, to provide a commercial valuation relevant to that business. For these reasons an average value is not meaningful. Proponents whose submission under the Forest Products Commission’s “Request for Proposals” is unsuccessful will be able to apply for Business Exit Assistance. It is understood that the cost of an unsuccessful proposal could only be considered in a Business Exit Assistance evaluation if the cost formed part of the business position for the period assessed by the independent valuer when making the commercial valuation for that business. The costs incurred by a business in making its proposals to the Forest Products Commission are details that are not provided to the Government. It should be noted that the “Request for Proposals” does not close until 4 December 2001.

Division 71: Health - Question 1: Hon Murray Criddle asked about recurrent funding for the nursing staff and the general running of those three facilities (Jurien Bay, Lancelin and Leeman). Answer: An additional recurrent amount of $200 000 was provided to the Western Health Service in 2000/2001 in recognition of service needs in the coastal area. Services currently provided at the Jurien Bay Health Centre, funded through Western Health Service, include emergency and acute nursing services, X-ray services, community health services, physiotherapy, child health, visiting podiatry and ultrasonography services, and others. Facilities at the centre

E866 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] are also used by Rivers Medical Group for its private medical practice. The Lancelin Health Centre houses state-funded emergency and acute nursing services provided by Silver Chain Nursing Association, a private general practitioner, and home and community care services operated by Western Health Service. The centre at Leeman opened on 1 July 2001 and, while still in its developmental stages, accommodates government-funded Silver Chain services and a visiting general practitioner. The Department of Health recognises the growing needs in the coastal area, including Jurien Bay, and will continue to monitor the situation, while encouraging the development of management strategies to address these needs. Question 2: Hon Giz Watson asked - (a) What is the total amount of funding provided to the CMHSR from all Department of Health sources? (b) Can the parliamentary secretary provide a breakdown of operational funding research grants from all Department of Health sources, including general purchasing and Mental Health Division? Answer: (a) $549 470 (excluding GST) for 2001-02. (b) Overall the focus of funding to the centre is to enable it to contribute to the effectiveness of treatment, services, planning processes and policy decisions by undertaking research and investigation of evidence-based strategies in the mental health area for the benefit of the community The centre is funded to undertake the following research activities during 2001-02: Provision of expert advice and consultation about research Mental health consumer satisfaction survey Mental Health & Wellbeing Survey Youth Rural Counsellor Program evaluation Co-morbidity: ADAPT pilot Public Mental Health Services rehabilitation activities survey Licensed Psychiatric Hostels : care to independent living, social determinants Intensive Disability Support Program evaluation Individual Personal Support Care assessments and instrument testing Current Practices in the use of Clinical Assessment Tools : a research and evaluation project Co-morbidity Mental Illness and Dual Diagnosis research Question 3: Hon Giz Watson asked, What is the total amount of funding provided to the CMHSR from Department of Health sources provided to this centre since its establishment? Answer: $1 989 670 Question 4: Hon Barry House asked, In respect to Vasse Leeuwin Health Service - (a) Figures are given for capital works of $617,000, and for a south west plan of $300 000 . Nobody seems to know what that is - I can only surmise that it is in line with the Health Administrative Review Committee recommendations, which point towards health services being abolished and restructured to fit in with development commission boundaries. (b) Another figure of $326,000 is related to election commitments. What does that represent? (c) The real figure, for actual service delivery, is in the order of $14.6 million, which is a real decrease of $1.3 million from the figure for the previous year. Will the parliamentary secretary comment on that? Answer: (a) The $300 000 is an indicative allocation to Vasse Leeuwin Health Service to fund strategies related to the implementation of the South West Plan. The current focus of the South West Plan is for new and expanded services in the south west including - a combined regional trauma service between Bunbury Regional and Busselton Hospital, the phased introduction of an intensive care service, rehabilitation and restorative care services and, increased provision of the clinical services provided by the St John of God Health Care renal dialysis, chemotherapy and inpatient and community based palliative care services. [15 - 18 October 2001] E867

(b) The final distribution of the indicative election commitments allocation will be decided shortly by the general health purchasing branch of the Department of Health. This indicative funding includes the following items - $0.250m - general distribution of funds for waiting lists, rehabilitation, acute care and trial Care in the Home services. $0.042m - Increased funding for PATS, $0.034m - Allied Health initiatives. $0.326m (c) In 2001-02 the total indicative budget allocation to the Vasse Leeuwin Health Service (not including superannuation funding) is $16.9 million compared to $15.6 million in 2000-01. This is an increase of $1.3 million. Question 5: Hon Simon O’Brien asked - (a) How many patients were waiting for surgery on 1 July 2001? (b) How many patients will be on the waiting list on 30 June 2001 (2002)? Answer: (a) In July 2001, the teaching hospital waiting lists had 9 773 patients and the non-teaching hospital waiting lists had 4 902 patients. (b) It is difficult to estimate the number of patients that will be on the waiting lists on 30 June 2002 due to factors that impact on the hospitals’ capacity to undertake elective wait list surgery such as - Staffing issues Emergency admissions Care awaiting placement patients, and Extraordinary issues such as the outbreak of Vancomycin Resistant Enterococci (VRE) at RPH. However, it is expected that in 2001-02, there will be a reduction in - The number of category 1 patients who wait longer than clinically desired; The median waiting times; and The medical and surgical outpatient waiting times. Question 6: Hon Alan Cadby asked, Can the parliamentary secretary explain the 5.5 per cent saving in the average cost per screening assessment from $49.82 to $47.03, which, with inflation at 3 per cent, is a considerable saving? Answer: The average cost per screening assessment figure includes breast cancer, cervical cancer and newborn hearing screening programs and breast assessment program. The cost per screening assessment is least for cervical cancer screening. The average cost per screening assessment is decreasing, despite inflation, due to a higher throughput of women screened for cervical cancer. The screening rates for breast cancer, newborn hearing and breast assessment have remained static. This has resulted in the average figure becoming lower. Question 7: Hon Simon O'Brien asked, There is an allocation of $1.5 million over four years for community-based health initiatives for Aboriginal people. Does this allocation in whole, or in part, take up the recent recommendations of the former Standing Committee on Estimates and Financial Operation, which reported on three matters related to Aboriginal health in the Kimberley at the end of 2000? Answer: Yes. The $1.5 million over four years is to be used to improve both the co-ordination and level of health services to Aboriginal people in the Kimberley and in the other Aboriginal health regions of the State. Question 8: Hon Barry House asked, What are the upgrade details of the $2.95m Margaret River District Hospital project? Answer: The project consists of expansion to the emergency department, primary care, pathology refurbishment and therapy areas, additional acute inpatient accommodation, provision of day surgery/procedure facilities, revised car parking and internal road system. Question 9: Hon Giz Watson asked, In recent times the Department of Health of Western Australia has provided funding to the gay and lesbian community services. Will the funding continue in this budget; if so, under what budget item; if so, what amount is to be funded; and if there is no allocation, why not?

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Answer: Yes. The Mental Health Division provides funding to the Western Australian Aids Council for a youth counsellor program. The program is an early intervention mental health program for young people. The aim of the program is to reduce the prevalence of health and mental health problems in young people in order to prevent the development of more serious mental health disorders. The WA Aids Council is funded $79 000 (inclusive of GST) for the 2001-02 financial year to operate this program. The Public Health Division provides funds to the Gay and Lesbian Community Service for preventative health outputs including telephone counselling services and training and development of counsellors. $33 000 (inclusive of GST) is budgeted for the 2001-02 financial year. Question 10: Hon Murray Criddle asked - (a) Given the shortfall in the budgeted amount for the 2000-01 financial year (page 1237), can you confirm if any funds have been taken from rural health services and reallocated to cover the shortfall? Answer: (a) Government provided additional supplementary funding of $20million in June 2001, to ensure a balanced budget position in 2000/2001. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (b) Page 1239: Re additional $6 million funding for specialist services in regional areas; (i) Is this new funding or has it been sourced from other areas of health? If so, from where and will any regional hospitals lose specialist services to fund this $6 million initiative? (ii) Please detail which health services or hospitals will benefit from this funding and please detail the additional funding? (iii) Will any regional hospitals reduce specialist services over the 2001/2002 financial year? If so, why? Answer: (i) The additional $6 million funding for specialist services is new funding allocated and relates to election commitments. (ii) Of the $6 million overall allocation for specialist services in regional areas $1 million will be provided in the 2001-02 financial year. The Health Services receiving funding this year are: Kimberley $100 000 East Pilbara $100 000 Gascoyne $100 000 Geraldton $100 000 Northern Goldfields $100 000 Bunbury $100 000 Central Great Southern $100 000 Lower Great Southern $100 000 Upper Great Southern $100 000 Avon $50 000 Eastern Wheatbelt $50 000 ______$1 000 000 The allocation of funding for subsequent financial years is yet to be determined. (iii) There is no intention to reduce the level of specialist services provided at any regional hospitals in 2001-02. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (c) Referring to the Superannuation payments figure ($113 m) on page 1268, what is the budget allocation to each regional health service for industrial award increases in 2001/2002? Does the amount allocated to each health service for industrial award increases cover the entire cost of the award increase? Answer: (c) Health services have been given an indicative superannuation figure to work with. The Department of Health will pay health services the actual cost of superannuation to ensure their liability is fully funded. The cost of industrial award agreements is embedded in the total allocation to health services. The budget is output based [15 - 18 October 2001] E869

and identifies the amount of service delivery and an agreed rate. Industrial costs are an input cost and as such, it is a matter the health service must factor into its budget development. Health services have been advised of the predicted impact of award increases and to preserve this amount from the budget allocated. The amount preserved will be reviewed once the agreements are finalised. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (d) Why does it take five more days waiting time on average for a country aged care assessment (8 days) than it does in the metropolitan areas? (page 1259) Answer: (d) The average waiting time for country Aged Care Assessment Teams can be affected by a number of factors including - Country teams can have larger distance to travel to undertake assessments and in order to efficient must plan to undertake more than one assessment per trip. Assessing indigenous people must take into account cultural issues, such as rituals which can impact on waiting times. Weather conditions, such as in the wet season can also delay the average waiting time for assessment. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (e) Referring to the provision of funds for Visiting Medical Specialists in the Statement of Cash Flows (Controlled) (page 1268) - (i) Does this budgetary figure provide for VMP award increases in the 2001/2002 financial year? (ii) If not, from where will the Minister fund the increases? (iii) How much is being allocated to each rural health service district for visiting medical specialists to rural areas? Answer: (i) Visiting medical practitioner costs on page 1268 are an indicator of input costs. The budget is prepared on an output basis and award increases and increases of payments for VMPs are included within the total allocation to health services. Health services are paid for an amount and at agreed rate of for services to be delivered. (ii) Not applicable (iii) The Statement of Cash Flows (Controlled) provides the aggregate 2001-02 budget estimate which refers to Visiting Medical Practitioners. The Department of Health does not specify this funding at the Health Service level, rather, funding is allocated to Health Services for the delivery of specific patient service outputs. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (f) Page 1261 (Major initiatives for 2001/02, dot point 12) (i) Will any new rural Multipurpose service centres be established in 2001/2002? (ii) If not, how will the Government be continuing the development of the multipurpose service initiative? (iii) Is Denmark’s MPS funding guaranteed? Is there a possibility of MPS’s hospital being downgraded? Answer: (i) No. (ii) A further six Multi Purpose Service Agreements are planned for 2001-02, these represent agreements and revised administrative arrangements between the State, Commonwealth and local community. These do not require immediate capital or building modifications. (iii) Financial obligations under the Multi Purpose Service Agreement for Denmark are being met. There are no plans to downgrade the hospital. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (g) Please detail which rural locations will receive funding for staff accommodation under the government’s capital works program and how much each area will receive? (Budget page 1262) Answer: (g) Priority will be given to staff accommodation projects in the Kimberley, Pilbara and Goldfields regions and other areas of need. Business cases for funding are still being assessed for the funds available within the capital works program Work in Progress and New Works allocations.

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Approved project budgets include - Cunderdin new unit $200 000; Port Hedland new units $750 000; Newman purchase two existing houses $168 000; Leonora replacement units $400 000; Kalgoorlie new units $570 000; Dalwallinu new house $240 000; Karratha new houses/units $620 000; Carnarvon purchase existing house $245 000; Wyndham house re-roofs $250 000; Fitzroy Crossing new units $450,000. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (h) Page 1239: Of the $3 million allocated to nurses’ professional development packages, how much of that money is specifically for nurses working in country areas? Please detail which regional health services will receive this funding. Answer: (h) $3 million has been allocated for nurses’ professional development packages and recruitment which amounts to $12 million over four years. This requirement is included in the Nurses EBA operative from 2 May 2001 and funding will flow from the requirements determined for each initiative below - Scholarships for nurses to undertake postgraduate courses; Study leave for nurses undertaking postgraduate programs in specialist nursing areas such as critical care and mental health; Postgraduate qualifications allowances; Funding for refresher and registration programs for nurses wanting to re-enter the workforce; Support for undergraduate clinical placements in rural and remote areas of the State; Scholarships for the training of undergraduate Aboriginal registered nurses; and Re-introduction of post registration courses for enrolled nurses. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (i) Please provide details of the allocation of funding for the expansion of disability support and carer respite services in regional WA? (Budget page 1262). Answer: (i) Expansion of disability support achieved since July in regional WA: $71 000 Expansion of carer respite achieved since July in regional WA: $82 000 Expansion planned this year for carer respite in regional WA as per election commitments: $250 000. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (j) How much will waiting times for elective surgery increase this year and what are the reasons for this? Answer: (j) It is difficult to estimate how much waiting times for elective surgery will change this year due to factors that impact on clinicians’ referral patterns and the hospitals’ capacity to undertake elective wait list surgery such as - Emergency admissions Care awaiting placement patients, and Extraordinary issues such as: Increase in influenza during the winter months; Increase in infection control issues such as Vancomycin Resistant Enterococci (VRE) Staffing Issues [15 - 18 October 2001] E871

However, it is expected that in 2001-02, there will be a reduction in - The number of category 1 patients who wait longer than clinically desired; The median waiting times; and The medical and surgical outpatient waiting times. Hon Murray Criddle asked - (k) Minister, your budget papers indicate an increase in health spending (page 1237). Can you confirm that - (i) There has not been a $1.2 million reduction from budget of the lower Great Southern Health Service? (ii) There has not been a 20% reduction in the recurrent operating budget of the Eastern Wheatbelt Health Service? (iii) There will be no staff cuts at Plantagenet Hospital? (iv) There will be no downgrading of hospitals such as those at Wyalkatchem, Narembeen, and Kellerberrin? Answer: (i) The total indicative budget allocation to the Lower Great Southern Health Service for 2001-02 (not including superannuation provisions) is $32.8 million compared to total funding of $29.4 million in 2000-01. This is an increase of 11.6 per cent or $3.4 million. (ii) The total indicative recurrent budget allocation to the Eastern Wheatbelt Health Service for 2001-02 is $9.8 million compared to $10.4 million in 2000-01. In 2000-01, special financial assistance of $0.3 m was paid to cover the operating deficit of the Health Service. This was a once off funding provision. (iii) Health services are required to manage within the budget provided and to maintain service activity levels. Strategies are being developed by health services, including Lower Great Southern health service, to include the review of corporate costs and realignment of services to provide for more integrated and complete services at a local level. These strategies are being reviewed to ensure they reduce duplication and promote efficient utilisation of resources with a minimum impact on health service delivery. (iv) The result of this review is in progress and staffing implications have not been assessed by the Department of Health. (v) There is no intent to close rural hospitals, but the above budget process may include amalgamation of existing health services to provide for a more integrated and comprehensive service at the local level. (vi) As per (iii) above. Question 11: Hon Christine Sharp asked, I refer again to the drug policy. Given that the parliamentary secretary is not able to provide any specific answers in anticipation of the Government’s announcement, which presumably will be made later this week, can she say whether we are likely to see a revision upwards from the current budget and appropriations? On the other hand, is the implication that those recommendations will pertain to the 2001-02 budget? Answer: The Government will be announcing its response to the Community Drug Summit recommendations in the near future. The draft response is yet to be considered by Cabinet. The priorities for action and the potential to fund these through, for example, removing the duplication in the administration of alcohol and drug services in the State, will be considered by Cabinet. Question 12: Hon Simon O’Brien asked, How much funding has been made available for additional mental health services in the Rockingham/Kwinana area, and how will those funds be applied? Answer: There has been a slight increase in funding for services in 2001/2002 from the previous year’s allocation. The core starting budget for Rockingham/Kwinana in 2001-02 is $3 255 860. Additional recurrent funding of $115 000 will be provided for leasing costs of the new mental health community facility in 2001-02. Funds promised through the government election commitments will also be provided to the Rockingham/Kwinana Mental Health Service. Question on Notice submitted by Hon Derrick Tomlinson - (1) How many emergency medicine consultants and how many emergency medicine registrars will be necessary to maintain 24-hour, 7-days-a-week emergency and casualty services at each of the following peripheral hospitals - Swan District Hospital Armadale-Kelmscott Memorial Hospital Rockingham Hospital?

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(2) What is the estimated cost of employing those emergency medicine consultants and registrars at each of the peripheral hospitals? (3) Are those costs provided for in the 2001-02 Health Budget and if so under what programs? Answer: Swan District Hospital (1) Four consultants, eight registrars and seven resident medical officers. (2) $2.2 million. (3) The additional funding for Swan Health Service of $1.25 million has been confirmed by the Department of Health. The balance of the funding is to be provided in the base budget for 2001-02 under output 2 - Diagnosis and Treatment. Armadale-Kelmscott Memorial Hospital (1) One director, four consultants and 10 registrars - based on 30 000 attendances per year and a four-bed observation unit attached to the emergency department. Note: the above does not include relief. Currently Armadale Health Service employs senior medical officers and does not have registrars or residents due to lack of teaching infrastructure and location. (2) $2.4 million - not including car, phone, study package and other add-on incentives required to employ consultants. (3) No. Currently Armadale Health Service spends $1.5 million on medical infrastructure in the emergency department. Rockingham Kwinana District Hospital (1) Three consultants and nine registrars. (2) $1 489 208. (3) The budget allocated for "Non-Admitted Patients - Emergency Services - Program 2.4.1.0" is $3 125 820 for 24 608 attendances. The hospital expects 31 000 emergency department attendances this year and is seeking to reduce inpatient activity and costs to meet these costs.

Division 19: Housing And Works - Question from Hon Giz Watson: I refer to pages 353-354 under expenditure for the State Housing Commission. It would appear that the expenditure for Crisis Accommodation will be reduced from $4,959,000 for 2000/01 to $4,135,000 for 2001/02. This represents a reduction of $824,000. (1) Does the Minister recognise there is currently a crisis in crisis accommodation in WA? (2) If this reduction is implemented, what accommodation will be reduced and which groups of people in need of crisis accommodation will not have their needs met? (3) Why has the reduction occurred? (4) Will this reduction increase the number of homelessness? (5) If no to iv), why not? Answer: (1) It has been apparent for some time that there is a growing problem of homelessness in the community. There are a number of factors that have contributed to this situation. However, the failure of the Federal Government to increase the real level of funding to States under the Commonwealth State Housing Agreement over the past five years in response to higher levels of demand, has been a major difficulty. I have previously identified a shortfall of some $40M to this State for the provision of public housing over this period. This Labor Government has taken a number of initiatives in response to homelessness. In May 2001, we established a Homeless Helpline. Up to mid October this Helpline has dealt with some 1310 calls. Of this number, 336 callers identified themselves as being without shelter. In excess of 220 of these people have already been assisted into permanent Homeswest accommodation while others have been assisted into the private rental market or referred to overnight vacancies. In July the Government also established the State Homelessness Taskforce to examine issues impacting the homelessness problem. Its report and recommendations, due by the end of January 2002, will assist in the development of a State Housing Strategy for WA. [15 - 18 October 2001] E873

Plans are also underway to develop a new Priority Assistance procedure that will enable eligible persons already housed in crisis accommodation to gain access to permanent Homeswest accommodation, thereby creating vacancies for other homeless people. Negotiations on this initiative include a number of community organisations managing crisis accommodation, the State Homelessness Taskforce and the Department for Community Development. (2) The Crisis Accommodation Program is one specific way in which this Government is able to respond to the problem of homelessness. While the expenditure forecast of $4.1M for this financial year is below that of $4.9M for last year, the actual number of units being completed each year is increasing. In 1999/2000, there were 31 units completed, in 2000/01 this rose to 38 units, and the target for this financial year is 41 units. In addition, there are further 24 units also being considered in a “back-up” program for this year, some of which may be brought forward into this budget at a future review. Consequently, it is not anticipated that any group of people will fail to have their needs met. (3) WA receives a fixed per capita grant of $3.8M per year from the Federal Government for the Crisis Accommodation Program. Budget estimates for expenditure vary from year to year, subject to a number of factors including the amount of carryover funds from the previous year. (4) Given the complex nature of issues that impact homelessness, I am unable to make any assessment of the likely impact. I can assure you the State Government remains committed to identifying and responding to the needs of those who are homeless or facing housing crisis within the community. (5) N/A. Question: Hon Christine Sharp asked - (1) The Labor Government in its housing policy recognised that “homelessness is becoming an increasing problem in WA, especially among young people” (p.3 Labor Housing Policy). Research undertaken by Shelter WA shows that one in three homeless people are young people. One of the main issues is lack of affordable housing accessible to young people. What has the Government done to improve the accessibility of affordable housing for young people? (2) Research shows that young people face discrimination and income barriers in accessing the private rental market and that home purchasing rates among young people are falling. This means that public housing is one of the few available options for young people. However, since 1996 public housing stock has fallen from 36,602 to 35,187 dwellings, while waiting lists have increased from 11,799 to 12,879 applicants. What is the Government doing to address the issue of discrimination of young people in the private rental market? What will the Government do to reverse the trend of falling public housing stock and address the issue of young people’s access to public housing? (3) The main vehicle for capital funding for social housing is the Commonwealth State Housing Agreement. The Commonwealth contribution to capital funding for social housing stock under the CSHA is projected to fall from $99.245 million in 1999/00 to $96.460 million in 2002/03. Over the same period, the Matching Grant from the WA Government is projected to fall from $35,846 to $34,483. Over the last ten years this Matching has not come from consolidated revenue but is a result of the Department of Housing operating on a commercial basis. What commitment does the Government have to increase the amount of capital funding available for social housing stock? What commitment does the Government have to fund the Matching Grant from consolidated revenue? (4) Access to employment, education, health and transport services is an essential element of improving housing outcomes for young people. However, the sale of assets has resulted in reduced availability of public housing stock in suitable locations. What will the Government do to ensure that social housing stock is located in areas of high employment and with access to health, education and transport services? (5) The Department of Housing’s own youth policy recognises that because housing is a necessity of life, a young person under 18 years of life can enter into a legally binding contract for the provision of housing. However, unless there are unusual circumstances, young people will not be housed by the Department until they are 18. What policy measures will the government take to recognise that people under the age of 18 are entitled to access public housing?

E874 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Answer: (1) The Government agrees that young people frequently face difficulties in accessing affordable housing. Low youth wages and Centrelink benefits (Youth Allowances and Austudy) make it difficult for young people to afford private rental housing. Although many young people adapt by entering into shared living arrangements, this is not an option that is available or suitable to all young people, especially young single parents or people with complex problems and needs. It needs to be acknowledged that housing affordability for young people will remain a major problem unless the Commonwealth Government provides adequate levels of income support. Nonetheless, the State Government is committed to doing what it can to improve the situation for young people in Western Australia, particularly those in most urgent need. To that end the Government has instigated a number of broad initiatives, including: the establishment of a State Homelessness Taskforce ; the development of a housing strategy for the State ; pressure on the Commonwealth Government to increase funding levels to the states to meet social housing needs ; support for Federal Labor’s proposal for a National Housing Strategy; The Government will continue to pressure the Commonwealth Government to increase capital funding grants provided under the Commonwealth State Housing Agreement (CSHA) for the provision of social housing stock. This Government supports federal Labor’s proposal to develop a National Housing Strategy which has as its core aim “the expansion of affordable housing, particularly to assist those Australians who currently find themselves homeless or at risk of homelessness.”. Young people deserve our support to find their independence, and access to suitable housing is an important part of that support. I have listened to community concerns about the difficulties faced by young people and have asked for a review of the Bond Assistance limits and an increase in the priority accorded to youth under a number of existing programs. Bond Assistance is available to people who are 16 years of age or older, subject to them being in receipt of an income or benefit. Bond loans are an important strategy in assisting young people to access private rental housing, with more than 14,000 loans provided annually. Since coming to office the Government has increased the awareness of the Bond Assistance scheme through the establishment of the Homeless Help Line. The Department of Housing and Works is reviewing the BA scheme, since the maximum loan amounts available have not been increased since 1991. Recently, the scheme was amended to enable automatic eligibility for people residing in Crisis Accommodation services, including youth services. The DHW also administers the Crisis Accommodation Program (CAP) which provides crisis and transitional housing options for people in urgent housing need, including youth. In recognition of the concerns surrounding youth homelessness more than 60% of new unit commencements in the 2001/02 CAP building program are for youth projects, including projects in Northam, Hedland, Bunbury and Perth (north metro, south metro and south east metro). Finally, the establishment of the Homeless Help Line in May this year is proving beneficial in assisting young people in desperate housing need. In the five months from late May to late October forty one (41) people under the age of 18 had approached the Help Line for assistance, as well as thirty one (31) eighteen year olds. The Help Line is operating as an effective information and referral service. (2) Many young people access private rental housing in WA, and the Bond Assistance scheme assists many young people into this tenure option. In relation to the issue of discrimination in the private rental market faced by young people, the DHW is working with REIWA to address this issue. With respect to the level of public rental housing stock and increasing wait lists, I advise that since 1993 total public housing stock has increased from 37,668 properties to 38,730 in 2001. However, I agree that given the continued strong demand for public housing this rate of stock increase is insufficient. I recently asked the Department of Housing and Works to prepare a report specifically on this matter, and for the Board of Commissioners to discuss options to increase the public rental acquisition and building program. The Report is currently being finalised. A number of avenues, both long term and short term, for increasing the capacity to expand capital works programs will be examined in the coming weeks. There will also be further a small net increase of around 250 public rental housing units this financial year. Under the Labor Government stock numbers will continue to increase as a matter of priority during the term of the Government. [15 - 18 October 2001] E875

(3) Currently a review is being undertaken with the intention of increasing the Capital Works Programme by 150 rental units. The full cost of this initiative would be in the order of $15-$16 million. There will be further reviews undertaken, throughout this year, to investigate alternative funding options with a view to increasing the level of social housing stock. The State has agreed to provide grants for matching purposes and has agreed to review the Department of Housing and Works’ needs depending on the level of land profits. I agree that the decline in the real value of grant assistance through the CSHA has been a major impediment to the expansion of social housing in this state. To this end I have called repeatedly on Minister for Family and Community Services, Amanda Vanstone to provide an adequate level of funding for public housing in this state. I will also be joining with my colleagues in other States and Territories following the Federal election in negotiations with the Federal Government with the aim of pursuing higher grants, longer term agreements, the end of the 1% efficiency dividend and annual CPI increases. (4) Approximately two thirds of the Perth’s jobs are located in the inner and middle ring suburbs (see Appendix A). Likewise, health, education and transport services are predominantly located in these areas. Some 58% of the Department of Housing and Works’ metropolitan rental stock is located in the inner and middle suburbs and there has been no reduction in stock levels in these areas. The planning process gives consideration to the access to services, facilities and employment opportunities The work undertaken by the Department of Housing and Works in recent years in redeveloping existing estates has ensured that affordable housing, for both tenants and first home buyers, is available in rejuvenated, well located suburbs with established infrastructure. For example, with respect to the mainstream rental housing program in 2001/2002, approximately 54% of the Department's land (joint ventures excluded) is to be supplied from inner and middle suburbs, including Doubleview, Glendalough, Innaloo, Hamilton Hill, Hilton, Cloverdale, Carlisle and St James/Bentley. Under the auspices of Housing Strategy WA, the Government is working on developing mechanisms to increase the numbers of affordable dwelling units in the inner and middle ring suburbs of Perth. Among the initiatives being explored are: joint ventures with local government authorities relaxation of planning controls or a system of density bonuses in exchange for private provision of affordable housing purchase by DHW of appropriate sites for social housing in the East Perth and Northbridge redevelopment areas potential for surplus government sites to provide social/affordable housing opportunities It is this Government’s intention to also ensure that outer suburban employment growth is facilitated. The creation of the Armadale Redevelopment Authority and the ongoing work of the Midland Redevelopment Authority are focused on attracting business investment and coordinating Government expenditure to achieve the best outcomes for the communities. (5) As highlighted by the Hon Member, the Department’s policy does recognise the ability of youth to obtain accommodation in their own right. However, there is not a need for unusual or exceptional circumstances to exist for accommodation to be provided. Rather, if the applicant is not an adult, the Department has a ‘duty of care’ to the client. On this basis the Department will consider the individual circumstances of each case. Bond assistance is also provided to applicants over 16 years of age. The Government also supports a continuation of some excellent “supported” youth housing schemes operated by the Department of Housing and Works for a number of years in the Perth metropolitan area. Under these schemes supported tenancy management, which is funded by the Department of Community Development, is provided to young people by Anglicare, Fremantle Community Youth Services and the Rockingham Youth Accommodation Program. Homeswest is committed to providing a pool of between 80 and 100 rental units to the programs. This is an increase of 20% on earlier years, and I have ensured that this program remains a priority for the Department. The target group is youth in need, including single mothers. The community agencies manage the tenancies until the tenants are able to live independently, at which point the tenancy can be rolled over into a Homeswest mainstream rental. This provides a useful entry point for young people into affordable public rental housing. Question from Hon Alan Cadby: I refer to page 357 of the Budget Statements. Below the line item “Net Cost of Outputs”, there is an adjustment of $21.6 million, which is a huge adjustment. Note (b), at the bottom of the page states - Adjustments are related to movements in cash balances and other accrual items such as receivables, payables and superannuation.

E876 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Answer: The wording of the footnote (b) in the Output and Appropriation Summary, and included as part of the State Supply Commission Appropriation and Forward Estimates (Division 20), reflects the fact that, for most agencies, this line is a generic adjustment consistent with the format specified by Treasury as part of the move to the accrual appropriations regime. This line reflects the change in an agency’s equity position resulting from its operations. In other words, the extent to which the Cost of Output delivery for an agency is funded through cash balances and other accrual movements. In the case of the State Supply Commission the adjustment figure does not include any amounts for savings in superannuation nor are there any staff cuts to derive the $21.6 million. Of the $21.63 million, the amount of $21.59 million relates to the timing of funds being received and being used for the fleet funding facility as was outlined in the answer given to the Legislative Council Estimates Committee. Question from Hon George Cash - (1) What other changes to previous policy have occurred since the Labor Party came into office in 2001? (2) What is the current status of the redevelopment of the Heathcote site? If that question is taken on notice, can the minister provide information about how much land is to be made available for residential use and the zoning density, if it has been agreed with the local authority? I would like a plan of the proposed redevelopment. (3) What is the current status of the development of the Observatory site opposite Parliament House? Can a plan be provided showing the proposed subdivision of that site, if that is the proposal? Answer: (1) The Government has sought to ensure that the Housing portfolio is driven by both vision and compassion. At one end of the spectrum we have been looking at “bigger picture” issues such as - • the inadequacy of Commonwealth/State funding arrangements for social housing agreed to by the previous Government; • the need to urgently address housing affordability issues at both commonwealth and state levels, and in particular to find ways of encouraging private and institutional investment into affordable social and private rental housing - a critical issue largely ignored by the previous Government; • the launch of the development of a Housing Strategy for Western Australia which addresses housing planning and policy issues for the medium and long term future needs of all West Australians; • environmental initiatives, such as giving preference to builders who do not use native timber in roof construction - implemented from 2001-02. At the other end of the spectrum, the sharp end if you like, where compassion is needed, the Government has made a number of decisions targeted at those in most urgent housing need in our community, including - • Homelessness Taskforce. Established in July 2001 to develop a whole of government action plan (State Homelessness Strategy) to respond to homelessness. It will report to Government by 31 January 2002. • Homeless Help Line. Established in May 2001, the Help Line service works in conjunction with the crisis lines run by the Salvation Army and the Department for Community Development. Help Line staff are assisting homeless people to access private and public rental housing. From inception to 16 October 2001 the Help Line has provided 205 clients with Bond Loans to assist them with their upfront costs of obtaining private rental housing. A further 254 clients were approved for Bond Assistance and were actively seeking private rental housing. At least 2151 clients have been provided with Homeswest accommodation and 16 urgent cases were being assisted as at 16 October 2001. The Help Line has also provided overnight interim assistance to 199 clients during this period. [1 This excludes those assisted directly by Regional Offices between 4 September and 16 October, which has been running at around 20 additional clients per month.] Significant Department of Housing and Works rental policy changes include - • Bankruptcy Policy. The previous policy of withholding rental housing for declared bankrupts who had debts with the DHW unless they entered into debt repayment arrangements was reassessed in April 2001, and the policy was suspended from 16/5/01. • Debt Discount Scheme. The scheme allowed up to a third of debt to be written off subject to payment of an agreed lump sum towards settling the remainder of the debt. This policy was reviewed in [15 - 18 October 2001] E877

April 2001 and the write off discount was increased to 50 per cent and an upfront lump sum payment is no longer required. Implemented from 16/5/01. • Priority Housing. Revision of policy to include long term SAAP clients and to trial acceptance of priority status on medical grounds. The trial involves the Aboriginal community agency Derbarl Yerrigan Health Service. The policy has also been changed to enable applicants already assessed for priority who change their regional/area preference to no longer have to go through a second assessment by the new Region, subject to discretion of that Regional Manager ie. they retain their priority status. Implemented from May 2001. • Bond Assistance (BA). Extension of BA to include Temporary Protection Visa holders (refugees) (April 2001) and people residing in Crisis Accommodation Services clients (1 July 2001). In relation to home owners the Government has recognised that Department of Housing and Works loan products need to retain maximum flexibility to ensure that they are able to be targeted adequately. In respect of this the DHW has - • loosened its policies on loan portability to make it easier for home buyers on the department’s shared- equity schemes (GoodStart scheme, the Aboriginal Home Ownership Scheme and the Access home loan scheme for people with disabilities) to move home while keeping the same loan. This recognises that people’s circumstances and problems can change significantly during the period of a home loan; • recognised the desire of Aboriginal families to buy their homes in remote and often expensive home towns by increasing the maximum property value allowed under the Aboriginal Home Ownership Scheme from $170 000 to $190 000 and increasing the level of assistance in such locations as Broome, Hedland, Karratha and Kununurra. • recognised the high cost of housing for people with disabilities in remote areas by increasing the maximum property value allowed under the Access home loan scheme from $160 000 to $190 000 in the Kimberley, north of the 26th parallel and in the Northwest and Eastern Division. • the Right to Buy Scheme has ceased and has been replaced by the Rental Sales Scheme. The new scheme provides for a grant of up to $3 000 and up to $5 000 for improvements made by the tenant. In most cases, the tenant will also be eligible for the First Homeowners Grant. (2) The Heritage Buildings at Heathcote have been refurbished and all except Murray House are under the control of the City of Melville for community use. Murray House was opened by the Premier on Friday, 19 October 2001 as the WA Centre for Leadership and Community Training, operated by Challenger TAFE and the WA Department of Training. The grounds of the Heathcote Heritage Precinct have been landscaped with barbecues, paths and other facilities including a magnificent children’s playground. These facilities have been open for 19 months and are extremely popular and well used. A plan of Heathcote is attached. [Held by Committee.] The land uses and approximate areas are as follows - • Heathcote Heritage Precinct - 3 ha - Community use; • Land added to the existing Parks and Recreation Reserves - 2.87 ha - Parks and Recreation; • The lower land - 2.41 ha - currently zoning Public Purposes Hospital - no current use; • Land on which Duncraig House is situated - 0.39 ha - currently vacant. The total that could be available for residential use, subject to statutory approvals is the lower land and Duncraig House. No proposals have yet been discussed for the lower land with the City of Melville, and no detailed plans exist of subdivision. Any proposals will be subject to public consultation and all necessary statutory approvals. (3) The Government has no plans that affect the current status of the Observatory site opposite Parliament House.

Division 67: Indigenous Affairs - Question on Notice submitted by Hon Derrick Tomlinson MLC - (a) How many Local Area Coordinators operated throughout the State in financial year 2000-01? Where were they located? (b) How many district offices operated throughout the State in financial year 2000-01? Where were they located? How many FTE personnel were employed in each of those offices in financial year 2000-01?

E878 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

(c) Is it anticipated there will be any change in the number of Local Area Coordinators, district offices, or FTEs employed in district offices, in financial year 2001-02? Answer:

37 Local Area Coordinators

Location No of LACs Port Hedland 2 Onslow 1 Roebourne 1 Newman 1 Geraldton 3 Meekatharra 1 Carnarvon 1 Kalgoorlie 3 Laverton 1 Katanning 1 Albany 1 Narrogin 1 Halls Creek 2 Broome 2 Derby 2 Fitzroy Crossing 1 Armadale 2 Fremantle 1 Mandurah 1 Bunbury 2 Merredin 1 Northam 1 Mirrabooka 3 Kununurra 1 Midland 1

7 Regional Offices 18 Local/District Offices

Location FTE Port Hedland (Regional Office) 5 Onslow 1 Roebourne 1 Newman 1

Geraldton (Regional Office) 6 Meekatharra 1 Carnarvon 1 [15 - 18 October 2001] E879

Kalgoorlie (Regional Office) 5 Laverton 1

Albany (Regional Office) 5 Katanning 1 Narrogin 1

Broome (Regional Office) 4 Kununurra 2 Halls Creek 2 Derby 3 Fitzroy Crossing 1

Fremantle (Regional Office) 3 Armadale 2 Mandurah 1 Bunbury 2

Midland (Regional Office) 3 Mirrabooka 4 Merredin 1 Northam 1

TOTAL 58 c) Yes. Question on Notice submitted by Hon Derrick Tomlinson MLC - (a) How many local Aboriginal Community Warden Schemes operated in 2001-02? (b) What were their names and where were they located? (c) How many of those local schemes were granted financial assistance by AAD in 2000-02? (d) What was the total actual amount of AAD financial assistance for each local scheme in 2000-01? (e) If the 21 schemes to be assisted in 2001-02 are different from those assisted in the previous year, or if any new schemes are to be included in 2001-02, what are their names and where are they located? (f) What is the estimated amount of AAD financial assistance for each local warden’s scheme in 2001-02? Answer: (a)-(f) Responsibility and administration of the Aboriginal Community Wardens Scheme was transferred from the then Aboriginal Affairs Department to the Western Australian Police Service from 1 July 2000.

Division 55: Industry and Technology - Question: Hon N.F. Moore requested details of the additional agency savings of $1.15 million referred to at the bottom of page 946 of the budget papers. Answer: Savings will be achieved under the following ongoing programs managed by the department -

E880 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

• Information, Communications, Technology Industry Policy Implementation $500,000 • WA Innovation Support Scheme $250,000 • Centres of Excellence Scheme $250,000 • Trade Missions and International Promotions $150,000 Question: Hon N.F. Moore asked whether any jobs were lost in respect to the agency savings of $1.15 million referred to at the bottom of page 946 of the budget papers. Answer: No. Question: Hon Simon O’Brien asked which of the overseas locations in which the Department of Industry and Technology has a presence was it intending to withdraw its services and what would be the likely impact from the point of view of the State. Answer: It is intended that the Manila office in the Philippines will be closed and that this can be achieved without significant disruption to the department’s services in this region. Division 30: Department of Justice - Question: Hon Giz Watson asked: I refer to page 518, Major Achievements for 2000-2001, bullet point #4 relating to a pilot project with the Town of Vincent to provide support to seniors who are victims of crime. The Budget Paper also notes that it was determined due to the low number of referrals and lack of demand for services, the project should not continue past June 2000. (i) Is the lack of demand due to a low number of senior victims? (ii) Why was there a low number of referrals? (iii) Who was responsible for referrals? (iv) If the answer to i) was no, what was the reason/s for the lack of demand? Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (i) Yes. (ii) The Town of Vincent has a relatively low level of crime in general and Seniors are not a large representative group in that area. (iii) The Police and the Town of Vincent. (iv) Not applicable. Question: Hon Giz Watson asked: I refer to page 531 of the Budget Papers, Output 13: Support Services to Other Government Agencies, specifically cost items to the Equal Opportunity Commission and the Freedom of Information Commission. Both these cost outputs have a significant reduction from 2000-2001 to 20001-2002. (i) Why are these reductions occurring? (ii) Will these reductions result in a reduction of the overall budget of these commissions? (iii) Can the Minister ensure that there will be no reduction in service provisions by these commissions? Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (i) These costs are associated to the Department of Justice Corporate Services allocated expenses relating to services provided to the Equal Opportunity Commission and the Freedom of Information by the department. The reduction of these costs is due to the Corporate Services component of the Priority and Assurance dividend. (ii) No. (iii) Yes. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: Karnet Prison: Do you have enough water to allow Karnet Prison to remain open with a full muster over the summer? If not, what are you going to do? Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply: Yes. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: WA Inc Litigation - (i) Who makes decisions on this litigation on behalf of Cabinet? (ii) Were any of those people members of a previous Labor Government whose improper behaviour is being cited as grounds of action or defence? [15 - 18 October 2001] E881

(iii) In particular, does the Premier absent himself from participation in discussions relating to the SGIC litigation in view of the fact that he was a minister in charge of that agency when some of the reprehensible behaviour occurred?

Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (i) A Cabinet Sub-Committee chaired by the Premier comprising the Attorney General and Minister for Government Enterprises. (ii) No. (iii) No.

Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: Victims Advisory Committee - (i) Why was this committee disbanded? (ii) Was every member of the committee advised that it was disbanded? (iii) If not, who was not advised and why? (iv) Where does the Government now receive advice on and from victims?

Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (i) “We have disbanded that committee because I want to look at more effective ways of delivering services to victims of crime and looking at other ways to achieve that, rather than through a mechanism which may well have suited the former Government but does not suit us in what we are going to be doing about victims of crime.” (The Hon Jim McGinty MLA, Hansard, Thursday 27 September 2001, E433) (ii) Yes. (iii) Not applicable. (iv) On the path to identifying a replacement committee, the Attorney General has been meeting with and taking advice from victims groups, such as the Homicide Victims Support Group, and individual victims of crime.

Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: Justice Owen - (i) Who agreed to Owen J conducting the HIH Royal Commission? (ii) What effect will this have on the cases he was hearing? (iii) In particular, what effect will it have on the huge SGIC legislation?

Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (i) The Chief Justice and the Attorney General. (ii) None is anticipated. The temporary absence of the Hon Justice Owen from the Supreme Court is being covered by the appointment of Acting and Auxiliary Judges pursuant to section 11(1) and section 11AA(1) of the Supreme Court Act 1935. (iii) None is anticipated. It is understood that the Chief Justice has put in place arrangements designed to ensure that the progress of this litigation will not be unduly affected.

Question: Hon B.K. Donaldson asked: Page 509: Decisions Taken Since State Election - (i) Priority and Assurance Dividend (Budget Cut) Please detail where savings were achieved - In 2001-2002 of $7.798 million Anticipated in 2002-2003 of $12.139 million Anticipated in 2003-2004 of $16.256 million Anticipated in 2004-2005 of $19.332 million (ii) What is the total cumulative amount in 2004-2005 cut from the Justice budget including allowing for inflation and cost increases from 2001-2002 to 2004-2005.

Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (i) The following items have been identified for savings over the forward estimates -

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2001/02 2002/03 2003/04 2004/05 ($’000) ($’000) ($’000) ($’000) Rationalisation of contract staff -1,500 -1,500 -1,500 -1,500 Rationalisation of Head Office and Business Area resources -2,800 -4,000 -4,000 -4,000 Reprioritisation of projects -1,500 -500 -500 -500 Reduction of 29 Vehicles -500 -500 -500 -500 Rationalisation of maintenance and accommodation -1,700 -1,700 -1,700 -1,700 Public Prison System 2% efficiency return -2,500 -5,064 -7,748 Transfer of funding to Inspector of Custodial Services -150 -150 -150 -150 Strategy for reducing rate and cost of imprisonment 352 -1,289 -2,842 -3,234 Total Priority and Assurance Dividend -7,798 -12,139 -16,256 -19,332 (ii) The real term decrease in the Justice budget is $55.525m as inflationary factors were included in the priority and assurance dividends. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked - (a) I am interested to know whether the minister has made any changes in the prison budget in any of the following areas: sex offender programs, violent offender programs, education, the arts and specialist Aboriginal programs? (b) I would like some practical illustrations of the impact. For instance, does the department conduct one fewer or even 10 fewer sexual offender courses in a year? Is a queue forming, or are people not getting opportunities? What is the actual impact? Answer: (a) Substance Use Rehabilitation, Sex Offenders and Violent Offender, Disability Services and Adult Education Programs have experienced a general reduction in budget in line with the expected reduction in prisoner numbers. (b) Offender Programs (Offender Programs encompasses Substance Use Rehabilitation, Sex Offenders and Violent Offender and Disability Service programs) The impact of these decisions over this financial year are- • Program delivery will focus on higher risk offenders. This decision is in keeping with best practice research that indicates effective programming should target offenders at higher risk of re-offending. • Low intensity programs are being withdrawn and replaced with medium intensity programs targeting medium risk offenders. • The number of sex offending and violent offending programs conducted this year for medium and high risk offenders will be maintained. • Indigenous programs will increase in regional prisons. • A Women’s Violence program will be introduced at Bandyup prison. • An Intensive Substance Use program will be introduced. Education Adults The impact of these decisions over this financial year is - • The two existing Education Centres at Hakea Prison have been amalgamated to form one operational centre with satellite classrooms over the whole site and a reduction in operational costs. • Re-focussing program scope to ensure core delivery is maintained. Adult basic education, vocational skills for employment, vocational literacy and traineeships are considered priority program delivery. [15 - 18 October 2001] E883

Responsibility for the arts, encompassing fine art, recreational art, drama and music is transferred to the Art Coordinator. Aboriginal Services There has been an $100 000 increase in Aboriginal Services in 2001-02 with the introduction of an elders program in our prisons. Question: Hon B.M. Scott asked: Page 518 Major Initiatives for 2001-02 dot point 1. Integrate the Child Witness Service into the Victim Support Service etc - (i) What regions will be served in the 2001-02 year? (ii) Does the project incorporate any advocacy for children during and after the witness program? (iii) With the increase of compensation - line 2 page 509 - does the child witness/victim service incorporate any compensation for children for trauma from the witness program and for child victims? (iv) If so, who advocates for those children? Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (i) The Victim Support Service will continue to serve Albany, Broome, Bunbury, Carnarvon, Derby, Esperance, Geraldton, Kalgoorlie, Karratha, Kununurra, Northam, Peel, Perth and Port Hedland. The Child Witness Service is established in Perth, Bunbury and Geraldton. The remainder of the State is serviced by Perth-based workers in conjunction with Victim Support Service workers as required. (ii) Yes. (iii) Child witnesses and victims are entitled to apply for criminal injuries compensation. (iv) The Child Witness and Victim Support Services inform children and their parents of their right to apply for criminal injuries compensation. Question: Hon B.K. Donaldson asked about wills etc and the common fund. Answer: The Department of Justice has provided the following reply - (1) As at 30 June 2001 the percentages of assets held in the common fund through wills or wills related moneys - Estates - or court-ordered and other monetary supervision moneys - Trusts - were - Estates 27,703,250.00 13.5% Trust 170,643,475.00 83.3% Other 6,460,318.00 3.2 % Total 204,807,043.00 100% (2) (a) The rate of return achieved for the common fund for the financial year was 6.55 per cent. (b) The percentage that was paid back into individual accounts was 73 per cent. The average interest rate paid to individual clients was 5.28 per cent.

Division 52: Main Roads - Question: Hon Alan Cadby referring to Page 877 “Net cost of output” asked - (1) Whether he could be guaranteed that the quality of roadworks has not decreased during 2000/01? (2) How many kilometres of freeway works were constructed during 2000/01 and how many are projected for 2001/02? Answer: (1) Assurance is given that the quality of roadworks has not decreased during 2000/01. More lane-kilometres are being constructed in 2001/02 at a lesser unit cost than in 2000/01 because the 2000/01 figures included almost 20 per cent of freeway construction compared with a projected 3% of freeway construction in 2001/02. The unit cost of freeway construction is significantly higher than for other road classes because freeways are constructed to a higher standard. (2) 124 lane-kilometres of freeway were constructed in 2000/01. 20 lane-kilometres of freeway are projected to be constructed in 2001/02. Question: Hon Jim Scott asked - (1) Does Main Roads have recent valuations for land tied up in unused road reserves? (2) Are valuations for discrete sections of the road reserves available?

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(3) If so, how can I get a copy of the information? Answer: (1)-(3) Some reasonably current valuation advice (1999) is available but it is not complete as it does not include land held by contract of sale pending finalisation of survey and transfer. This information (from the Government Property Register - DOLA) also includes parcels of land that are under road, i.e. not removed from the Transfer of Land Act and not yet dedicated as road under the Land Administration Act. These are “desktop” valuations carried out by the Valuer General’s Office specifically for the Government Property Register. Separate valuations are not available for discrete sections of road reserves Contact Main Roads’ Manager Property Management, Mr Erle Dutton on telephone 9323 4376 with specific requests for information. If it is available, it will be provided. Question: Hon Simon O’Brien referring to page 883 “Roe Highway - Nicholson Road to South Street) asked - (1) Is the estimated total cost of the works to construct and seal Nicholson Road to South Street $99 million? (2) Will it cost extra to construct Stages 6 and 7 separately. Answer: (1) $ 98M has been allocated in the Budget for the construction of Roe Highway Stages 6 (Nicholson Road to South Street) and 7 (South Street to Kwinana Freeway). Of the $98M allocated, $40M has been provided for Stage 6 and $58M has been set aside for Stage 7. (2) There would be potentially some savings to be realised in combining the construction of Stages 6 and 7. These savings may result from reduced tendering and contract management costs and economies of scale available to the contractor. However, because of the need to resolve the larger issues of the freight network in the metropolitan area and in particular the future of Stage 8 of Roe Highway, it is not possible to finalise the alignment of Stage 7 immediately. However, it was important to get Stage 6 planning underway so it can be ready to start before the completion of Stage 5. Question: Hon Murray Criddle referring to pages 881 to 885 “Works in Progress” asked for the forward estimates budget allocations for Cervantes/Lancelin, Hyden Corrigin, Grain Logistics Roads, Lime Sands Routes, Derby Airport to the Turn Off Road, Binnu-Tenindewa Road and Muirs Road? Answer: (1)-(2) The Four Year budget allocations for the projects specified are shown as follows: Lancelin to Cervantes $20.819M Corrigin to Hyden Nil* Grain Logistics Roads $4.868M Lime Sands Routes $6.2M Derby Highway $2.194M (Derby Airport turnoff to Great Northern Hwy) Binnu-Tenindewa Road $1.0M Muirs Highway $0.75M * The Minister has undertaken to review funding for Corrigin Hyden Road before the next budget is handed down. Question: Hon Barry House referring to page 870 “Decisions taken since State Election” asked for the current time frame and forward estimates for the Bunbury Port Access Road, Peel Deviation, Serpentine Deviation, Margaret River Bypass, Muirs Highway Upgrade and Mowen Road Upgrade? Answer: Timeframes and Four-Year Forward Estimate allocations for these projects are as follows - Bunbury Port Access - $1.02M allocated in the Four-Year Forward Estimates, mainly for land acquisition. The timing of construction is dependent on future budgetary processes. Peel Deviation/Serpentine Deviation - The road name Serpentine Deviation has recently been dropped. The Kwinana Freeway route has now been extended to Lakes Road in Mandurah, while the Peel Deviation is now referred to as the section from Lakes Road in Mandurah to the Old Coast Road near Lake Clifton, on the eastern side of the Peel and Harvey Estuary. $5.2M is allocated in the Four-Year Forward Estimates for the Peel Deviation, mainly for land acquisition but also for the completion of planning activities. Margaret River Bypass - No funds are allocated to this project in the Four-Year Forward Estimates. This is considered a long-term project and the timing of construction will be dependent on future budgetary processes. [15 - 18 October 2001] E885

Muirs Highway - $0.15M is allocated to the Mt Barker Northern Bypass project in the Four-Year Forward Estimates for pre-construction activities. No funds are currently allocated for construction of the Bypass. The timing of construction will be dependent on future budgetary processes. $0.6M is allocated to the section between Nyamup and Strachan in the four-year forward estimates for pre-construction activities. No funds are currently allocated for construction of this section. The timing of construction will be dependent on future budgetary processes. Mowen Road - $2.4M is allocated to extend the seal on this road in the Four-Year Forward Estimates. A further $8.45M is needed outside this period to complete the seal. A Finance Agreement signed with the Shires of Nannup and Augusta-Margaret River should see the works completed in 2007/08, subject to future budgetary processes. Question: Hon Barbara Scott referring to page 870 “Decisions taken since State Election - Fremantle Eastern Bypass” asked - (1) What is the current status of the road reservation? (2) Will the Government be selling off the reservation if it is lifted when the Metropolitan Region Scheme Amendment is done? (3) What funds will be saved and, more importantly for Fremantle people, will funds be spent to upgrade an alternative route to connect with the Fremantle-Rockingham Highway and the port? (4) Is the upgrading of Stock Road planned? (5) If so, at what cost? Answer: (1) The reservation is still in the Metropolitan Region Scheme. The reservation is subject to the Freight Network Review, which will consider alternatives to the Fremantle Eastern Bypass route. (2) Planning for the future uses of the reservation land will commence next year. (3) The total funding allocated to construct the Fremantle Eastern Bypass project in the 2000/01 Budget was $43M. These funds were reallocated to other Capital Works projects during the 2001/02 budget process. The identification of alternative routes and allocation of funds for the upgrading of these routes will be subject to the outcomes of the Freight Network Review. (4)-(5) Some preliminary investigations have been undertaken on possible upgrading of the Stock Road and High Street /Leach Highway route in lieu of construction of the Fremantle Eastern Bypass. However, the cost of any upgrading will depend on the outcomes of the Freight Network Review and the level of upgrading which may ultimately be decided for the Stock Road-High Street route. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked - (1) What was the cost of the Windan Bridge and the duplication of the Narrows Bridge? (2) What was the cost of the railway bridge alongside the Windan Bridge? Answer: (1) The Windan Bridge was constructed as part of Contract 404/95, Design and Construct Graham Farmer Freeway, East Parade to Great Eastern Highway. The cost of the bridge within this contract was $18 471 000. The cost of the duplication of the Narrows Bridge within the $49 million Narrows Bridge project was $29 369 000. (2) The railway bridge alongside the Windan Bridge is called the Goongoongup Bridge. The cost of the railway bridge project was $16 846 000. Question: Hon Barry House asked why the speed limit on the Dawesville Deviation has been set at 90 kilometres per hour when the speed limit on the adjacent section south is 110 kilometres per hour? Answer: The Dawesville Deviation has been designed for a speed of 110 kilometres per hour. However, local residents have expressed concern about safety for traffic entering and leaving the Deviation at intersections, as well as there being considerable debate over noise levels at homes adjacent to the new road. There is also a new commercial development about to commence immediately to the west of the Deviation, which could have an impact on the speed zone selected. Some works have not been completed so the Deviation has been commissioned with a speed limit of 90 kilometres per hour largely at the request of local residents to test these aspects before a final speed limit is assessed. The works requiring completion relate to the construction of a screen fence between Touchstone Drive and the Deviation. It is anticipated that these works will be completed in February 2002, following which a road safety audit and speed assessment will be undertaken. It is expected that the results of these studies will be known in April 2002.

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The review of the speed limit will take into account a number of factors including the function of the road, traffic volumes, other road users, adjacent roadside development, the number and type of side street junctions and the actual operating speed chosen by motorists. Question: Hon Adele Farina referring to page 884 “South Western Highway - Donnybrook to Bridgetown” asked for an update of the progress of that road? Answer: The project involves the upgrading of the Donnybrook to Bridgetown section of the South Western Highway and includes the reconstruction and widening of various substandard sections and the installation of a number of overtaking lanes. The latest estimates, following a recent reassessment of the project, indicate that it will cost $27.5M to complete the upgrading. This additional requirement can be broken down into subsections as follows. Donnybrook to Kirup $8.12M Kirup to Balingup $7.49M Balingup to Greenbushes $6.96M Greenbushes Section $1.99M Hesters Hill to Bridgetown $2.91M Total $27.47M The timing of work on this section of South Western Highway will be subject to future Budget deliberations. However, there are some funds available in 2001/02 to purchase land required for the upgrading of the Hesters Hill to Bridgetown section, which is considered to be the highest priority project on this section. Some engineering work will also be undertaken on this section. Question: Hon Simon O’Brien asked - (1) What plans does the Government have for traffic if the Fremantle Eastern Bypass is deleted? (2) Has the Government decided to delete the Fremantle Eastern Bypass? Answer: (1) Traffic, which crosses the river at Fremantle, currently uses existing roads such as High Street, Leach Highway and South Street to get to Stock Road and Kwinana Freeway. These roads will still be available in the future either in their current form or with possible upgrading. Alternatives to the Fremantle Eastern Bypass route are being considered as part of the Government’s Freight Network Review. (2) Yes.

Question: Hon Barbara Scott referring to page 870 “Decisions taken since State Election” asked - (1) What is the current status of the Fremantle Eastern Bypass reserve? (2) What process will be used to review the road reservation? (3) Does Main Roads have an alternative route in mind to connect the Fremantle Port with the Fremantle/Rockingham Highway? (4) If so, is the alternative route to be used Stock Road? (5) If it is Stock Road, what is the estimated cost of the Stock Road upgrade?

Answer: (1) The Fremantle eastern bypass reserve is still in the Metropolitan Region Scheme. (2) Alternatives to the Fremantle Eastern Bypass route are being considered as part of the Government’s freight network review. (3) Main Roads is awaiting the outcome of the Freight Network Review. The review is being managed by the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. Main Roads is working with the Department for Planning and Infrastructure and other stakeholders to progress the review. (4) The City of Fremantle and some interest groups have previously suggested that the Stock Road/Leach Highway /High Street route should be upgraded in lieu of construction of the Fremantle Eastern Bypass route. In response to these suggestions Main Roads has undertaken some preliminary investigations of the Stock Road/Leach Highway/High Street route. (5) The cost of upgrading Stock Road will depend on the nature of any upgrading which may be proposed. Decisions on these issues will be subject to the outcomes of the Freight Network Review. [15 - 18 October 2001] E887

Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked - (1) Please explain the differential between the expenditure of $698 million in the transport sector, and revenues totalling $841.796 million (comprising $249.556 million vehicle registration fees and $592.240 other sources)? (2) The $592.240 revenue, which excludes vehicle registration fees comprised, in part, the following”: (a) Commonwealth funds - $106.835 million (b) Internal funds and balances - $9.3 million (c) DPI – Highway Wide loads - $14.5 million (d) DPI – Perth Bike Plan Stage 2 - $5.0 million (e) Consolidated Fund – Item 82 - $226.347 million (f) Consolidated Fund – Item 166 - $142.863 million Please provide detail on the above road funding sources? (3) The previous budget had an estimate of $304 million for 2001/02 for capital services. This Government’s budget is $240 million for the same period dropping to $124 million in 2003/03. Please explain the drop in capital services? (4) Please state what planned work was not undertaken on road construction given that the actual expenditure for 2000/01 for this output is approximately $100 million less than budgeted (Page 871)? (5) Under Output 2 (Page 875) the following were listed as major initiatives for 2000/01 in the previous budget, but do not appear as major achievements in this budget. Please provide an update on their status. (a) Albany Highway (North Bannister to Arthur River) – Reconstruct and prmierseal various sections $3.6M (b) Brookton Highway (Karragullen to Brookton) – Reconstruct and widen $4.1M (c) Coolgardie to Esperance Highway (Scadden to Gibson section) – Reconstruct and primerseal $2M (d) Great Northern Highway (Roe Highway to Muchea) – reconstruct, widen and primerseal $4.5M (e) Narrogin-Kondinin Road (Wickepin to Kulin) – Reconstruct and primerseal $2M. (6) Under Output 4 (Page 880) the following was listed as a major initiative for 2000/01 in the previous budget, but does not appear as a major achievement in this budget. Please provide an update on its status. (a) Goomalling-Toodyay Road (Toodyay Shire) – Replace bridge over Avon River $3.55M (7) State road funds applied to roadworks on the local government road network, both capital and recurrent, is reduced. Recurrent by $17.82 million, and capital by $4.957 million (Page 890). Please state what effect this will have on services? (8) What are the funding allocations for the forward estimates for the following road projects: (a) Lime Sands Route in the Toodyay area (b) Cervantes to Lancelin Coastal Road (c) Hyden to Corrigin Road (d) Muir Highway Answer: (1) Insofar as the funding allocation for Main Roads is concerned I am not aware of the figure of $698 M to which you refer. However, the Net Cost of Services for 2001/02 totals $827.716M (refer Page 886) and includes $118.02M for depreciation but not $14.08M needed to fund balance sheet items including repayments of loans, purchase of fixed assets (excluding road infrastructure), superannuation and past service liabilities. This leaves a total of $709.696M for road related expenditure. (2) The detail of the road funding services mentioned is as follows: $M (a) Commonwealth Funds Australian Land Transport Development Program 80.080 Roads of National Importance 21.000 Blackspot Program 4.683 106.835

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(b) Internal funds and balances Proceeds on Disposal of Non Current Assets 6.500 Rents 2.500 Sundries 0.300 9.300 (c) Department for Planning and Infrastructure – High Wide Loads 14.500 Funds to be sourced from the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. (d) DEPARTMENT for PLANNING AND INFRASTRUCTURE – PERTH BIKE PLAN STAGE 2 5.000 Funds to be sourced from the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. (e) CONSOLIDATED FUND – ITEM 82 226.347 Funds sourced from the Department of Treasury and Finance as part of the annual appropriation legislation. (f) CONSOLIDATED Fund – Item 166 142.863 Funds sourced from the Department of Treasury and Finance as part of the annual appropriation legislation. (3) The previous budget estimate of $304M for 2001/02 was the State appropriation to meet expenditures in the Capital Works Program. The 2001/02 Budget Papers include accrual appropriations for the first time. Therefore, the $240.046M and $124.33M as shown in the Output and Appropriation Summary at Page 871 are not comparable with the previous Budget Papers. You will note that the amounts are identified as “Appropriations for Capital Contribution to meet equity needs” rather than Capital Services. More detailed information with comparisons to other years is contained in the Capital Contribution table at Page 885. (4) Main Roads Program of Works is of a dynamic nature with program variations being made to accommodate changing circumstances in both the condition of the network and other emerging requirements. These changes are reflected in the output information whereby funds have been transferred from Road Construction to Road Improvement and Road Maintenance and Minor Modification activities (Outputs 1 and 2). (5) (a) Roadworks associated with this project (Five passing lanes, one passing lane extension and three intersection improvements) were completed last financial year with the exception of a final bitumen seal coat. It is anticipated that the seal coat will be completed prior to Christmas 2001 and $0.3M has been allocated for these works. Ongoing planning for additional passing lanes and intersection improvements has been deferred. (b) Roadworks associated with this project were not completed last financial year as the contract was suspended (95% complete) due to wet weather in June. It is anticipated that the Contractor (Macmahon) will return to the site in mid November 2001 to complete approximately 1 km of pavement plus some driveways and drainage works. This will complete the project with the exception of some sealing and maintenance work on the western approaches to the Brookton Townsite. Carry over funds to the extent of $0.9M have been provided for these works. (c) Stage 1 of the Scaddan to Gibson Project was undertaken in 1999/00 with 12 kms of reconstruction undertaken near Scaddan. The cost of this work was $3.58M, of which $1.236M was anticipated from the 2000/01 budget of $2M. The $2M budget allocated in 2000/01 was expended as follows: $1.236M Anticipated and expended in 1999/00 on construction of Stage 1 (12km) $0.153M Expended 2000/01 finalising 1999/00 work $0.278M Expended 2000/01 for final seal of 1999/00 work $0.253M Expended 2000/01 on preconstruction for Stage 2 (20 km) $0.080M Carried over to 2001/02 As can be seen above the 2000/01 allocation was largely brought forward into 1999/00 to enable a greater length of reconstruction in Stage 1. This was part of an approval to anticipate $10M on various projects across the State from 2000/01 into 1999/00 to maximise 1999/00 expenditure. The remainder of the 2000/01 allocation was used in 2000/01 to complete 1999/00 works (finalise 1999/00 [15 - 18 October 2001] E889

contract and final seal) and to cover preconstruction of Stage 2 (20 km) which is on target for construction in the current 2001/02 year. To complete Stage 2 (20 km) a budget of $3.86M has been allocated in 2001/02 in addition to the $0.080M carried over from 2000/01 with a further $0.800M allocated for 2002/03. (d) In 1997, the Commonwealth Government approved the allocation of $15.35M to upgrade Great Northern Highway between Roe Highway and the Metropolitan Region boundary at Muchea over 5 years. The first year of this funding commenced in 1997/98. In the preparation of the 2000/01 Budget, an amount of $4.5M (not $2M) was listed for this project, based upon advice contained in the 1999/00 Federal Budget papers. However, when the 2000/01 Federal Budget was handed down (one month after the 2000/01 State Budget) these funds had been deferred by 12 months. Despite this there were still some funds available to the project in 2000/01, mainly unspent funds that had been carried over from the previous year. These funds totalled $1.39M, of which $1.03M was spent on completion of the Warbrook Road passing lane and $0.36M to complete drainage improvements to the Roe Highway/Lennard Street section. In June 2001, Main Roads submitted a further Project Proposal Report (PPR) to the Commonwealth seeking the allocation of a further $16.68M to complete the proposed works. By the end of the 2000/01 financial year, approximately $14M of the original funding allocation had been spent on upgrading sections of the Highway but less than half of the project had been completed. A number of factors contributed to the original project cost being underestimated, including significant scope changes (additional passing lanes, cycling facilities, drainage works etc) and the impact of latent conditions. Accordingly, an additional PPR was submitted to secure the necessary Commonwealth funding to complete the project. In response to the follow-up PPR, the Commonwealth has approved the expenditure of an additional $1M in 2001/02 to undertake detailed design and preconstruction works for those sections of the Highway that still require upgrading. It is anticipated that when this design work has been completed, the Commonwealth will approve the allocation of further funds totalling $15.68M to complete the construction works. These funds are anticipated to be allocated progressively over the period 2002/03- 2005/06. Works have been completed to date between Roe Highway and Lennard Street, in the vicinity of Warbrook Road and between Bullsbrook and Rutland Roads. Sections still outstanding include Lennard Street to Walyunga, Warbrook Road to Bullsbrook and Rutland Road to the regional boundary. (e) Roadworks associated with this project were not completed last financial year as the contract was suspended last July (70% complete) due to wet weather. It is anticipated that the Contractor (Roadcare) will return to site in early November to complete 2.5 kms of work immediately west of Tincurrin North Road (Also known as Helm Road). This will complete the project shown on the 2000/01 budget allocation. Carry over funds to the extent of $0.3M have been provided for these works. Planning for widening of the narrow seal east of Tincurrin North Road has been deferred.

(6) Works on the replacement of Bridge 631A commenced in December 2000 as part of the Northam Bypass Contract. These works are due for completion during this financial year (2001/02) and will be reported as a major achievement in the next budget.

(7) The 2000/01 estimated actual expenditure of $129.4M as per the State Budget papers for the Local Roads Program, includes some works carried over from previous years. The $106.7M budget estimate for 2001/02 excludes carryovers. The current budget for the Local Roads Program in 2001/02, inclusive of carryovers from 2000/01, is $154.1M.

(8) Funding allocations in the Four-Year Forward Estimates for the following road projects are as shown:

(a) Lime Sands Route in the Toodyay area - $6.2M is allocated to maintenance and upgrading works on the Agricultural Lime Cartage Routes. A review of Routes 1 and 2 will lead to a determination of how much of this funding will be allocated to Route 1 in the Toodyay area.

(b) Lancelin to Cervantes Coastal Road - $20.819M.

(c) Corrigin to Hyden Road - Nil.

(d) Muirs Highway - $0.75M.

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Division 56: Mineral and Petroleum Resources - Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked - (a) How far has the reporting of the total ongoing costs (including revenue forgone measures) developed in these budget papers? (b) What is reported and how does it break down into categories or major projects? (c) Is the total taxation expenditure for all current state agreement Acts for the financial years just passed? (d) Where can the projected costs of Iron and Steel (Midwest) Agreement Act be found? (e) From which budget, including revenue forgone measures, would these costs be reported? Answer: (a)-(c) To enable the Department of Mineral and Petroleum Resources to answer questions (a), (b) and (c) it would be appreciated if further details were provided to facilitate a full understanding of the information sought. (d)-(e) The projected costs of implementing the agreement Act arrangements are not contained within the budget estimates. This is because the parameter of these arrangements, eg. design and cost are yet to be agreed and defined. In addition the timing is uncertain. Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked - (a) As no cost benefit analysis has been done on the Jervoise Bay project since it was reduced in size on what basis did the Government assess that “the reduced size (of the project) is not expected to materially affect the return to the Government”? (b) What is the total amount of funding that will be put into the project by the WA Government and the Australian Government? (c) Have any major oil module building companies committed to establishing a facility at Jervoise Bay? (d) If no major engineering or fabricating companies have committed to locating at Jervoise Bay how can the Government of WA make a return on its investment? Answer: (a) The Jervoise Bay Development is a project with a 50-year time frame. The initial development (of 147 hectares) currently under construction has been designed to accommodate the first five to 10 years of demand. It can readily be expanded to the full 170 hectares as demand increases. The Jervoise Bay Development’s long-term economic return to government is not affected. (b) Australian Government $80m Western Australian Government $92m* * Figure includes costs for establishment of the Marine Industry Technology Park and Skills Training Centre. (c) No. (d) Construction is still in its early stages with some work still to be contracted. Prospective tenants are therefore reluctant to make firm commitments until there is certainty on operational dates. However, the construction schedule has been amended to bring forward the completion of the first load out wharf, and some major service lots to enable fabrication companies that are currently preparing tenders for offshore work to base their bids on utilising the Jervoise Bay Development. Question: Hon John Fischer asked - Volume 3, budget paper No 2 Decisions taken prior to the State Election regarding Government Assistance for BHP - Can the minister itemise what infrastructure assistance is going to be given to BHP Billiton? Answer: The item referred to does not relate to infrastructure, but to a limited level of assistance provided to BHP HBI to support the continued operation of the Port Hedland HBI facility. The assistance package is a single quantum figure payable quarterly and is equivalent to state royalty and additional lease rental applied to iron ore for comparable tonnages fed to the BHP Billiton HBI plant. The approximate equivalents for 2001-02 and 2002-03 are estimated to be - Royalty equivalent $3.2 million per annum Additional lease rental equivalent $1.0 million per annum Total $4.2 million per annum The $4.2 million estimate is broken down into approximately $1.05 million for each quarter. Actual payments are calculated once iron ore feedstock quantities to the HBI plant are known. The assistance package is initially for three [15 - 18 October 2001] E891 years and payments commenced relating to the first quarter 2001 and will be completed with payments related to the fourth quarter 2003. Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked - (a) As no cost benefit analysis has been done on the Jervoise Bay project since it was reduced in size on what basis did the Government assess that “the reduced size (of the project) is not expected to materially affect the return to the Government”? (b) What is the total amount of funding that will be put into the project by the WA Government and the Australian Government? (c) Have any major oil module building companies committed to establishing a facility at Jervoise Bay? (d) If no major engineering or fabricating companies have committed to locating at Jervoise Bay how can the Government of WA make a return on its investment? (e) What measures are in place with the minerals and energy sector to assess each proposed project according to the principles of ecologically sustainable development? Are these measures, if any, funded through a particular budget item or items? (f) What levels of preparation exist within the department for provision of information and support for industries concerned about impacts of climate change on their operations, with particular regard to commitments arising under the eventual ratification of the Kyoto Protocol by the Commonwealth Government? Answer: (a)-(d) The answer is being prepared by DOIT. (e) The major project facilitation role of the Department of Mineral and Petroleum Resources is not an assessment role, but rather, assists developers to bring their investment to fruition in a responsible manner. To that end issues associated with social, economic and environmental implications are discussed with clients and the client is referred to respective assessment agencies, including the Environmental Protection Authority. With respect to sustainable development, Cabinet has set up standing committees (social, economic and environment) to give proper attention to the implications of any development. (f) MPR advises proponents of their greenhouse gas emission responsibilities and facilitates their consultation with the Environmental Protection Authority, the Australian Greenhouse Office and Environment Australia on greenhouse matters. Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked the following - (a) Will the Parliamentary Secretary provide a more detailed breakdown of the expenditure on the Ord stage 2 project? (b) Is the Petroleum Division of the department of Mineral and Petroleum Resources pursuing environmental regulations under petroleum legislation and if so, how much money has been budgeted for in this process? Answer: (a) I will be pleased to provide the Hon Member the information he seeks once he has made clear what breakdown he wants. (b) The Petroleum Division of the department of Mineral and Petroleum Resources is pursuing environmental regulations under the Petroleum (Submerged Lands) Act 1982. The regulations will mirror existing regulations under the Commonwealth Petroleum (Submerged Lands) Act 1967. Efforts will be covered by the normal budget for petroleum environmental administration. No extra funds were included for the development of these regulations. Question: Hon John Fischer asked - Given the state of exploration in Western Australia could the Government give an assurance that it will not keep the $25 million it holds in mining lease applications if it converts these tenements back to exploration licences, as may be expected of the recommendations of the ward Report? He also asked that the Minister confirm that mining lease applications that are converted back to exploration licences will not have to go through the expensive heritage process? Answer: These are issues being addressed by the Native Title Technical Taskforce on Mineral Tenements and Land Title applications and the Taskforce report is awaited before these matters are further considered. Question: Hon N.F. Moore asked - Why has expenditure in Output 5 been reduced by $500 000 and in Output 6 - petroleum safety - by $100 000 and would the Minister provide a breakdown of on-the-ground safety costs, with reference to page 970 of the Budget papers? Answer: The actual expenditure in 2000-01 relating to Outputs 5 and 6 included unbudgeted expenditure on redundancy payments, and in the case of Output 5 a significant increase in the cost of running a large vehicle fleet,

E892 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information] which will be rationalised. The estimates for 2001-02 do not include these costs and therefore there will be no reduction in the delivery of services relating to health and safety in the mineral and petroleum industries. Due to the merger of the Departments of Minerals and Energy and Resources Development a detailed breakdown of costs is not available at this time. Question on Notice submitted by Hon Robin Chapple - (1) What is the breakdown for the estimated expenditure of $5 361 000 earmarked for Ord stage 2 on page 11 of the budget document "Growing our State"? (a) What provisions for cost recovery exist in the event that proposed stage 2 expansion does not proceed? (b) What proportion of this expenditure has been allocated to the resourcing of the traditional owners and their representative bodies, including the Kimberley Land Council, to enable them to conduct negotiations? Answer: (1) Project Management $332 000 Native title and land access $2 092 000 Studies $347 000 Community facilities $2 000 000 Technical $400 000 Legal $190 000 TOTAL $5 361 000 (1) (a) Clause 13 of the memorandum of understanding between the Western Australian and Northern Territory Governments and Wesfarmers Limited and the Marubeni Corporation states that - The parties understand that reimbursement by the Companies of costs reasonably incurred by the Governments in the acquisition of lands and on investigations and studies pertaining to the M2 area will be the subject of discussion and resolution during the feasibility study. (b) Approximately 17 per cent and includes any consultancies that might be involved. Question on Notice submitted by Hon Robin Chapple - (2) What funding has been allocated to the ministerial council overseeing the Ord River area project agreement, and how is this accounted for? Answer: (2) The Western Australian proportion of any cost incurred in the operation of the ministerial council will be funded from within the Ord River stage 2 budget and accounted for accordingly. Question on Notice submitted by Hon Robin Chapple - (3) What is the estimated breakdown for the expenditure of $4 210 000 allocated to the BHP hot briquetted iron plant? (a) Can the department table documentation showing how the decision to provide these funds was arrived at? Answer: (3) The government assistance package to the BHP Billiton HBI plant is a single quantum figure payable quarterly and is equivalent to state royalty and additional lease rental applied to iron ore for comparable tonnages fed to the BHP Billiton HBI plant. The approximate equivalents are - Royalty equivalent $3.2 million Additional lease rental equivalent $1.0 million TOTAL $4.2 million The $4.2 million estimate is broken down into approximately $1.05 million for each of the quarters of the financial year. Actual payments are calculated once iron ore feedstock quantities to the HBI plant are known. (3) (a) No. The government assistance package was a decision of Cabinet in the previous Government and protocol prevents its tabling in Parliament. [15 - 18 October 2001] E893

Question on Notice submitted by Hon Robin Chapple - (4) Could the department provide a yearly breakdown of funds expended in relation to the provisions of output 7 - a system for regulating and promoting environmental management in the mineral industry, output measures. This is in respect to the commitment for the additional $350 000 that was provided to work on this database for inventory of abandoned mine sites. This was agreed to in Parliament in 1998. Answer: (4) The expenditure relating to the abandoned minesites database is as follows - 1999-2000 $425 925 2000-01 $458 615

Division 50: Planning and Infrastructure - Division 54: Western Australian Planning Commission - Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: “Does the ‘improve and extend bus routes decision’ taken since the election ($8m over 4 years) include regional areas – please specify which ones (page 816). Answer: The funding commitment to improve and extend bus routes includes an element for public transport in regional centres. Improvements in the Geraldton bus service which have already been announced are funded from this source. In future years election commitments to improvements in bus services in Bunbury will be addressed from this funding source. Improvements in services in other regional centres will also be considered depending upon identified needs and available funding. Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "What is the funding situation for private bus contractors? Answer: Output six on page 829 of the budget papers refers to all passenger and freight services provided by the Department for Planning and Infrastructure. This includes for example the cost of the north west shipping service, payments to school bus operators in regional areas as well as payments for the components of the Transperth public transport system. It has therefore been assumed that the question relates to the funding situation for the private companies which operate bus contracts for Transperth. The funds allocated in the budget allow for full continuation of the Transperth bus contracts including a provision of $0.5 million in financial year 2001/02 for Transperth bus system growth. Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "There is a reduction in regional school bus subsidies by $2.619 million from the estimated actual of 2000/01 to the budget for 2001/02. (page 843) Does the subsidy provided include the subsidy paid to parents of country school kids for the mileage in driving their child to the school bus? If so is there any change to the budgeted amount?” Answer: Actual expenditures can vary from budget estimates for a range of reasons. The apparent reduction in the budget estimates from 2000/01 to 2001/02 for Regional School Bus Subsidies reflects a re-allocation of the budget for school bus services provided in the metropolitan area from the Regional Division to the Metropolitan Division. Overall, there has been no change in the budget for school bus services. The budget estimate for Regional School Bus Subsidies includes payments for parents to convey their children to a bus route or to school. The budgeted amount for these conveyance allowances has increased reflecting the inclusion of four year olds in the transport assistance program and some growth in demand for the allowances. Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "Page 816 refers to the redirection of the Trade Facilitation Trust Fund, with a value of $12.779m from 2002/03. Please explain the purpose of these funds and to where they are being redirected?” Answer: The Trade Facilitation Trust Fund has not been established. The funds previously estimated to be available for this Trust Fund from 2002/03 are to be directed to meet the Government’s election commitments. Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "Please state where the cost of the new Town Planning Tribunal has been allocated". Answer: The budgeted cost appears on page 921 under the heading Town Planning and Development Act 1928 - $831,000. Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "(page 924) Output 1 Statutory Planning - the net cost of Output 1 has increased to $3.575 million (from $2.627 million). Is this a real increase or merely an increase in the functions assumed from other areas under the restructure?" Answer: The cost of $3.575m represents the cost net of revenue. Revenue is expected to fall by $727,000 in 2001-02 due to lower interest revenue. Total costs rose by $221,000 on the previous year, due to an accounting variation which resulted in a small realignment of costs between Outputs 1, 2 and 3.

E894 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "a major initiative for 2000/01 in the previous budget was to "receive and consider public submissions and approve final bush fires policy". Has this occurred?" Answer: The Bush Fires policy has been approved by the Western Australian Planning Commission, will be considered by the Minister and is scheduled for publication this year. Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "The Geraldton Region Scheme was to progress toward the Draft Stage as an initiative for 2000/01 in the previous budget, and it is similarly stated again. Please inform as to when the Geraldton Region Scheme will actually be implemented (page 926)?" Answer: A significant amount of planning work has been undertaken as the precursor to the Geraldton Region Scheme, including the capture of underlying geographical information into Departmental mapping systems, the undertaking of a study on the alignment for the main north-south road through Geraldton and the soon to be commenced major study on the Geraldton CBD and foreshore. Based on the Department's experience with the development of the Draft Peel and Draft Greater Bunbury Region Schemes the time frame from start to finish of developing a Region Scheme to the final stage is in the vicinity of 3 to 4 years. The preparation of Region Schemes is complex and involves extensive community consultation, hearings and compliance with statutory processes such as environmental approvals. At this early point in the planning process a target implementation date has not been set, however an indicative time frame for approval of the final Geraldton Region Scheme would be late 2004 Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "Total cost of capital works program is $97.523 million. This is an increase of $47.54 million on last years estimated actual. (Capital Contribution table page 934). What acquisitions are to be made under the Metropolitan Region Improvement Scheme?" Answer: The total capital acquisition budget from the Metropolitan Region Improvement Fund for 2001-02 is $69,778,000. This is split $36,726,000 on acquisitions for important regional roads, controlled access highways, parks and recreation areas, special uses, $21,052,000 for the implementation of Bush Forever and $12,000,000 for Port Catherine. Question: Hon Murray Criddle asked: "Total revenues from Government increasing to $77.617 million up by $20.404 million. Revenues continued to increase in the forward estimates up to $91.908 million in 2004/05. Please explain what additional activities or programs this is funding (page 935)." Answer: The Capital User Charge advised by Treasury will rise from $36,606,000 in 2001/02 to $43,967,000 in 2004/05. The charge is allocated by Treasury in the form of equal amounts of revenues and expenditures and therefore there is no net additional funding available to the Commission from this increase. The revenue from the Metropolitan Region Improvement Tax is forecast to rise from $39,000,000 in 2001/02 to $46,000,000 in 2004/05. The increase in revenues will be applied to the implementation of the Metropolitan Region Scheme in accord with legislative requirements. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked: "In relation to the Kenwick route, to what degree would there be an increase in passenger traffic, due to the siting of the railway, which would lead to development. How will the people in the area in which the Government predicted there would be more passenger traffic actually get on to the train, in view of the difficulties of infrastructure for railways, parking and interchanges on the foreshore?" Answer: The Kenwick Route has been deferred, not abandoned. As part of this project, the railway will extend from Kenwick to Thornlie and possibly Nicholson Road. The significantly faster travel time of the direct route (40% from Thompson Lake and 30% from Rockingham) is the key factor in producing higher patronage rates. It is not simple a matter of populations in the catchment but the preparedness of the populations in the catchment to use the system. With respect to access to the Direct Route, there is adequate land for parking, bus and car interchange at Murdoch and Leach Highway sites, and for a bus interchange at Canning Bridge. The Canning Bridge site has also been identified to have a significant pedestrian catchment. Question: Hon J. A. Scott asked: "why does the valuation of the Apace site, carried out by the property section of the Department for Planning and Infrastructure, include 1105 square metres of the Vlamingh parklands river foreshore in lot 13, and a further 620 square metres of foreshore reserve lot 15?" Answer: The valuations undertaken for the “APACE site” in respect of land owned by the WA Planning Commission are limited to Lot 8. Your reference to Lots 13 and 15 relates to the lot yield under various assumed residential density codings. The Commission has never proposed the disposal of land required for the Vlamingh Parklands foreshore reserve. The final boundary has yet to be defined on the ground and reserved in the Metropolitan Regional Scheme. However, the widening of the foreshore is to accommodate the North Fremantle Wetland project as stated in the Vlamingh Parklands report, which includes part of Lot 8. Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked how the department (DPI) believes that damage caused by a State Government funded breakwater can be fully funded by the Esperance Shire? What is the rationale behind leaving a local shire to pick up the tab for these works? How many authorities are similarly affected? [15 - 18 October 2001] E895

Answer: Foreshore protection works at Esperance are not fully funded by the Shire. When the State Government first provided financial assistance to address coastal erosion problems some twenty years ago ie in 1978, the Esperance port was operated directly by the State. The Esperance Port Authority is now directly responsible for funding all port operations and for meeting port liabilities. On this basis, it also assists with foreshore protection. The department has provided some funding assistance in the past. However on this occasion some of the work undertaken was not agreed to by the Department. The Shire of Esperance did not submit the claim for payment until after the work was done. At that time, the available funds allocated by the Department for coastal protection work were expended. Forty six local government authorities in WA have some coastline. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked Mr Frewer if he had spoken in public consultation about the possibility of two stations in the area between Canning Bridge and the Narrows Bridge? What effect would two stations have on the proposed savings in travelling time of 12 minutes from Mandurah to Perth? It has been touted that the new route would save 12 minutes of travelling time. What would be the effect of that if there were two stations? What would be the effect of that increased travelling time on the calculations of the number of passengers on the route? It has been suggested that the reduced travelling time will have a commensurate increase in the number of passengers. Answer: Only one station has been considered between the Canning and Narrows Bridges. The estimated time penalty for this stop would be 110 seconds. This is not expected to affect patronage. In any event, express trains from Thompsons Lake South would allow for the trip to be completed without any time penalty. Question on Notice submitted by Hon Robin Chapple - (1) What is the breakdown for the further expenditure of $4 301 000 for the construction and sealing of the Ripon Hills Road, detailed on page 17 of budget document "Growing our State"? (a) Of the total estimated investment of $63 165 000 listed for this project, how much has already been spent? (b) Can the department provide recent traffic statistics for vehicles using the Ripon Hills Road? (c) Can the department provide any other documentation to support this expenditure? (d) Which mining companies have contributed funds to this project, what amounts have been contributed thus far, and what amounts are forecast to be contributed? (2) When is it proposed that the Wiluna-Meekatharra section of the Goldfields Highway will be completed? (a) For what purpose has the estimated expenditure for 2000-01 amount of $69 000 been allocated? (b) Why have no funds been allocated for the 2001-02 financial year? Answer: (1) Contractor payments and administration associated with Contract No 708/99 - Seal Ripon Hills Road - Contract Administration - $169 000 Contractor Payments - $4 132 000 (a) $61 090 000. (b) 2001 traffic counts indicate that heavy vehicles make up approximately 50 per cent of the traffic on Ripon Hills Road, of which 38 per cent are Triple Road Trains. Current Annual Average Daily Traffic figures are not available, however, on average some 200 heavy vehicles use this road each week. (c) I assume the member is seeking details of a planning strategy which identified the need for the Ripon Hills Road. The Ripon Hills Road was allocated high priority (“Priority A”) status in the Roads 2020 Pilbara Regional Road Development Strategy 1997. Page 32 of the document refers to “Marble Bar Road to Woodie Woodie via Ripon Hills” and states the following - Function - The proposed road will primarily service the major resource developments to the east of Marble Bar. In addition it will provide access for Aboriginal Communities and pastoral properties. Development Need - Mineral resource development to the east of Marble Bar is of major importance to the State and National economy. Current access to the mining operations is via the Woodie- Woodie Road which was originally a pastoral properties access track. It is not ideally located for the purposes of transporting the massive tonnages associated with the mining operations. Road and vehicle maintenance costs are unacceptably high and there are significant economic benefits in providing a more direct route. I will arrange for a copy of the document to be forwarded to the member.

E896 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

(d) (i) Three mining companies operating in the Eastern Pilbara have made contributions. The confidentiality clause of the funding arrangement prevents naming of the three companies concerned. The minister will ask the mining companies concerned for authority to release their identity. (ii) $4.22 million. (iii) Up to $1.9 million. (2) 2006. (a) Preliminary investigation and design activities. (b) No works are being undertaken on this project in the 2001-02 financial year as preliminary investigation and design activities are well advanced to enable the project to be tendered in time to meet the Government’s completion commitment of 2006.

Division 48: Police Service - Question: Hon Alan Cadby asked how many recruits over the age of 40 years have been trained as police officers this year or are in the Police Academy right now? Answer: Between 1 January and 18 October 2001 there have been 9 recruits aged 40 years or over inducted into the Western Australia Police Service who have either graduated from or are currently in training at the Police Academy Question: Hon George Cash asked the Minister what change in policy or practice has caused the significant reduction in Accommodation payments reported in the Cashflow Statement at page 790. In 1999-2000 the actual was $24.005 million and the budget for 2000-01 was $21.672 million budgeted, whereas the estimated actual for 2000-01 is $13.644 million. Answer: There has been no change to policy or practice. Accommodation outlays have not changed materially. The cause of the apparent change is a classification error in the Cashflow Statement by the Police Service in the columns 1999-00 Actual and 2000-01 Budget, between the entry for Accommodation and the entry for Supplies and Services. By referring to the entries for these two items in the Statement of Financial Performance on page 788, it can be seen that Accommodation expense does not change materially over the columns.

Division 3: Premier And Cabinet - Question: Hon Simon O’Brien asked for “a breakdown of superannuation, leave liabilities and the like for the adjustment figure of $7.455 million on page 77 of the Budget Statements?” Answer: The adjustment figure of $7.455 million is made up of movement in the following items: $’000 Accrued salaries 74 Accounts payable 49 Prepayments 1,687 Accounts receivable 317 Superannuation liabilities assumed by the Treasurer 1,016 Cash balances 4,312 ------7,455 ------Question from Hon N.F. Moore: After highlighting that a line item for ministerial air charter shows an allocation of $740 000, the member asked “Is that extra funding for ministerial air charter? If it is, what is the reason for the additional funds?” Answer: The contract for the ministerial air charter service contains a price escalation clause that allows the contractor to apply for increases in prices. The price formula contains components that are varied in line with movements in labour prices, the Perth consumer price index and fuel prices. There have been significant movements in the consumer price index and fuel prices. The increased allocation also allows for increased usage. Question: Hon Peter Foss asked - (1) How many returned members have changed offices? [15 - 18 October 2001] E897

(2) How many new members have not taken over the offices of retiring members? (3) What has been the maximum, minimum and mean cost of setting up those new offices? (4) How does that relate to the figure of $75 000, which the Director General wrote to me about? (5) How was that figure of $75 000 calculated? (6) Why has the Director General not been prepared to look at the actual cost of shifting offices, as opposed to the mean cost? (7) Why did his office twice write to me asking if I wished to move and then, when I said yes, tell me that it was against policy to allow me to do so? (8) Do the department’s policy guidelines recognise that Legislative Council members often play a supportive role for Legislative Assembly members and that this can change from election to election? (9) What is the policy on the release of the travel details of members of Parliament? (10) What information has already been released this year, and has there been any difference between the treatment of information relating to government members and that relating to opposition members? I ask for the factual answer rather than the policy. Answer: (1) One (2) Four Members did not move into an existing office. (3) No work has commenced on the premises for one of the Members. The estimated maximum, minimum and mean cost of setting up the new offices for each of the other three members is: Maximum: $70,400 Minimum: $51,500 Mean: $61,200 (4) “In the vicinity” of $75,000 was the mean figure for establishing an electorate office over the past three years. (5) $50,312 Average cost of building works over the past three years $10,000 Furniture costs $5,000 Telephone systems $5,000 Lease consultant fees $3,000 Reinstatement/termination costs (6) Estimated costs for specific cases can only be determined following assessment by the Department of Housing and Works. Assessments are only undertaken on requests that meet current guidelines. (7) The Department wrote one letter to the Hon Member advising that the lease was due to expire and that a renewal option was held and sought confirmation of continued occupancy. A second letter was written seeking a response and advising that should the lease expire, the lease would revert to a monthly tenancy which risked increased rentals or termination. (8) Parliamentary electorate office guidelines state that electorate offices are provided for the Member for the purpose of conducting their parliamentary and electorate duties. (9)-(10) As is currently the case, travel details of Members utilising the Imprest System for Members of Parliament Travel will be tabled with quarterly travel reports. In addition, to improve reporting and other accountability requirements, Members using their imprest account to travel overseas and interstate will be required to provide a written report on the cost, purpose and benefits of such travel. These will also be tabled with the quarterly reports. Question: Hon George Cash asked, “Will the Government table the various agreements that are stated on page 92, such as the Yamatji Cooperative Planning agreement?” Answer: Yes. Copies of the Yamatji Cooperative Planning Agreement, the Spinifex native title determination and the Nharnuwannga Wadjari Ngarla determination are attached. [Provided to Committee.] Question: Hon Derrick Tomlinson reported that “the Premier has indicated by press release that some of the forgone earnings resulting from the decision to not proceed with the luxury tax on properties valued at more than $1 million will be absorbed in the Government’s native title program”. He then asked “What will be the impact on such things as applications for mining tenements, land title applications and reviews of the status of land claims?” Answer: The budgetary shortfall created by the abandonment of the premium property tax will be made up in part by delaying the Government’s election commitment to employ an additional 11 Department of Mineral and Petroleum Resources’ Case Managers to facilitate the reduction in the backlog of mineral tenement applications.

E898 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

The Technical Taskforce on Mineral Tenement and Land Title Applications (which is being chaired by Mr Bardy McFarlane of the National Native Title Tribunal) has been considering the best use of the resources budgeted for this purpose. The Technical Taskforce has not yet presented the Government with its final recommendations.

As it is not expected that any program arising from the recommendation will commence until 2002, a proportion of this financial year’s budget allocation has been deferred. However, there will be no overall reduction in the program. The existing systems and resources will continue to apply in regard to the processing of mineral tenement and land title applications.

Question: Hon Alan Cadby requested a detailed supplementary budget in terms of salaries, administration costs, grants for projects and annual expenditure over the four years for the Science Council.

Answer: The Science Council is essentially that of an advisory council to the Premier on WA science policy with particular reference to how the Innovate WA money should be targeted. It is serviced by the Department of Industry and Technology. A level 7 officer with a salary of $76,000 per annum is the executive support officer for the Council. Approximately two other FTE’s support the Council. The Science Council does not have a separate budget for projects or programs, but provides advice on the expenditure of the Innovate WA funding and other science expenditure.

Question from Hon Dee Margetts: With regard to sustainability unit measures, “Is it expected to include some public formulation of those measures; and, if so, what models for the investigation of the sustainability indicators are being pursued?” Hon D. Margetts also asked for “the kind of information that might be given to the community during the formulation of that policy. Will there be any public involvement in the formulation of indicators of the progress of sustainability?”

Answer: The Government is currently considering the implementation of sustainability indicators. A number of national and international models have been examined. The process will involve community consultation.

Question from Hon Barry House: With regard to an electorate office survey, “Is it possible to get a copy of the findings of that survey?”

Answer: The statistical results of the survey are attached. [See below.]

The top table provides the average response for each of the areas about which feedback was sought. The possible responses were along a continuum that ranged from 1, indicating “well below expectations” to 5, indicating “well above expectations”. The “overall assessment” was a separate question in the survey and is not the average of the other responses. The second table shows the number of responses in each of the categories (“well below expectations” to “well above expectations”) for both quality and timeliness, in each of the 10 areas about which feedback was sought.

MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT SURVEY YEAR ENDING 30.6.2001 RESULTS SUMMARY

Quality Timeliness Administration of Members Entitlements 3.2 3.1 1.1 Electorate Office Establishment 2.9 2.6 1.2 Electorate Office equipment 2.7 2.6 1.3 Imprest travel 3.5 3.4 1.4 Electorate air travel 3.7 3.5 1.5 Air charter and hire 3.5 3.4 1.6 Mobile phone allowance 3.1 3.2 1.7 Lease vehicles 3.3 3.2 Provision of Corporate Services 3.4 3.3 2.1 Human Resource Services 3.4 3.3 2.2 Information Technology Services 3.3 3.2 Overall Assessment 2.9 2.9

SURVEY RESPONSE RATES Population = 91 Response rate 53% Non response rate 47% [15 - 18 October 2001] E899

Number of Responses Well Below Below Met Above Well Above Total Electorate Office Establishment Quality 7 7 21 10 2 47 Timeliness 7 11 21 8 0 47 Electorate Office Equipment Quality 8 8 26 8 0 50 Timeliness 8 14 19 9 0 50 Imprest Travel Quality 1 1 18 12 4 36 Timeliness 1 3 17 11 4 36 Electorate Air Travel Quality 0 0 9 9 2 20 Timeliness 0 1 10 7 2 20 Air charter and hire Quality 0 1 6 5 1 13 Timeliness 0 3 6 3 1 13 Mobile phone allowance Quality 3 5 23 11 3 45 Timeliness 1 5 26 9 3 44 Lease vehicles Quality 1 6 24 17 2 50 Timeliness 3 5 23 16 3 50 Human Resource Services Quality 0 5 23 22 2 52 Timeliness 1 4 24 22 1 52 Information Technology Services Quality 3 6 16 23 3 51 Timeliness 5 6 16 22 3 52 Overall Assessment Quality 4 10 21 13 0 48 Timeliness 6 7 22 13 0 48

Division 72: Racing, Gaming And Liquor - Question: Hon N.F. Moore, MLC, asked how much additional money has gone into the racing industry since 1992 as a result of changes to the TAB turnover tax, which was reduced in 1992? Between then and now, how much additional funding has gone to the racing industry by virtue of forgone tax as a result of the change of the percentage? Will the minister also indicate how much extra funding has gone into the racing industry since 1992 as a result of the increased TAB turnover tax? Answer: The following table demonstrates that in 2000/01 the TAB distribution to the racing codes totalled $54.1 million, an increase of $26.1 million over the 91/92 TAB distribution of $28 million. Of this increase, $10.5 million can be attributed to tax cuts and $15.6 million to TAB performance growth. Year TAB turnover actual tax rate actual tax paid Estimated tax benefit TAB Dist paid by TAB by TAB TAB tax at 6% to TAB to codes $m $m % $m $m $m 91/92 459.7 5.9* 27.1 27.6 0.5 28.0 92/93 519.8 5.25** 27.3 31.2 3.9 33.3 93/94 584.7 5.0 29.2 35.1 5.9 38.1 94/95 620.7 5.0 31.0 37.2 6.2 41.7 95/96 659.7 5.0 33.0 39.6 6.6 43.2 96/97 678.5 5.0 33.9 44.1 6.8 42.9 97/98 735.4 5.0 36.8 44.1 7.3 42.9 98/99 782.1 5.0 39.1 46.9 7.8 49.0 99/00 817.2 5.0 40.8 49.0 8.2 50.3 00/01 847.0 4.76*** 40.3 50.8 10.5 54.1 Note* One-off rebate of $550,000 in 91/92 reduced effective tax rate from 6.0% to 5.9% Note** Tax reduced from 6.0% to 5.0% by rebate effective November 93. Note*** Tax reduced from 5.0% to 4.5% by rebate effective February 2001

Division 65: Sport and Recreation - Question: Hon Louise Pratt MLC asked: What information does the department have on the impact of the GST on either peoples ability to participate in sport, volunteer as a coach or assist in club administration? Answer: Prior to the implementation of GST, the Department of Sport and Recreation was proactive in scheduling Statewide more than 100 information and education briefings to encourage preparations for introduction of the Goods and Services Tax (GST). A close working relationship was forged with Sport Australia, the Western Australian Sports Federation and local governments to assist in a smooth transition to the introduction of the GST. There is clearly additional administrative responsibilities on volunteer treasurers, and management of clubs is more complex. There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that volunteer treasurers are getting harder to recruit.

Division 58: Western Australian Tourism Commission - Question: Hon N.F. Moore asked what capital contribution did the Government promise before the election to provide to the Rottnest Island Authority and why has it been reduced significantly in this budget?

E900 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Answer: The Government promised before the election to ensure that $14 million is allocated over four years to upgrade and repair holiday accommodation units and settlement areas on Rottnest. This is to be achieved via direct contribution from the consolidated fund and from the Rottnest Island Authority’s own resources. Question: Hon N.F. Moore asked with respect to the problems facing the airline industry in Western Australia as a result of a number of factors, what plans does the Government have to seek to overcome the difficulties being experienced by the tourism industry within Western Australia? In the same context, how is the $5 million additional expenditure being spent and from which part of the budget was it allocated? Answer: The full details of short-term initiatives being undertaken and the timeframe and cost are tabled. Medium and long-term programs are yet to be finalised by the WATC. Given Air Access & Availability of discount fares to Western Australia from interstate and given international traveller confidence in a number of key markets is low. The current order of priorities (as at the end of September 2001) for the allocation of the $5 million is: 1st, Intrastate; 2nd, Interstate; 3rd , International. (1) Immediate Activity Activity Timing Budget 8/10 • Industry Statewide consultation forum 4 September • Intrastate radio campaign to put travel in WA to top of mind Commenced 22 September $50,000 • National print campaign (Intrastate & Interstate) Intrastate commenced 22 September Interstate on hold pending Air Access, Fares • Regional Tourism Associations recovery grants Available 28 September $500,000 • Metropolitan Tourism recovery grants (advice to MMAC) Available 28 September $50,000 • ATC co-op tactical advertising campaign - South Africa Commence 14 October $6,000 • Intrastate catalogue $100m sale - whole WA 6-7 months In newspaper 27 or 28 October $150,000 • 2nd Interstate radio campaign to promote $5m Sale Last 2 weeks October $15,000 • Tactical advertising campaign Malaysia (+$82K partner funds) Commence late October $250,000 • Metropolitan Outdoor/Billboard promotion of $100m Sale November - 4 weeks $25,000 • Commitment to produce intrastate advertisements for increased reach Launch November/December $155,000 and impact on people to travel to regional WA. • Barometer market research to assess regional impact of crisis Monitored monthly for 12 months $100,000 • Less industry contribution ($87,000) Sub Total $1,470,000 (2) Medium and Long Term Activity Details yet to be finalised by WATC. Sub Total $3,530,000 TOTAL $5,000,000 Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked will funding be committed to any aspect of the Mauds Landing proposal or government activity associated with any aspect of that project? Answer: The Western Australian Tourism Commission expended $92 325 in 2000-01 on assisting the development of projects in the North West Cape which includes Mauds Landing project. No further funds will be expended by the commission in 2001-02 for this purpose. Question: Hon N.F. Moore asked if it [Mauds Landing] was handled by another agency, will the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Tourism tell us which one it is? Answer: The responsibility for major tourism development projects such as that at Mauds Landing has been transferred to the Department of Housing and Works with effect from 1 July 2001. Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked what financial commitment has the commission established as a result of the Labor Party’s policy of promoting the development of an environmental tourism training course through TAFE, with the assistance of the Ecotourism Association of Australia? What will be done to encourage and assist tourism operators to gain accreditation under the nature and ecotourism accreditation program, and to ensure that the environmental tourism unit conducts NEAP workshops in regional Western Australia and produces publications to assist operators gain accreditation? Answer: As part of the $250 000 commitment to ecotourism, a Nature Based Tourism Advisory Council has been appointed to examine training and accreditation. There are currently some 38 TAFE courses related to tourism and hospitality. The Advisory Council is placing emphasis on accreditation. There are two principal accreditation programs - Nature and Ecotourism Accreditation Program (NEAP) and the National Tourism Accreditation Program (NTAP), both of which are available to the tourism industry. These programs will become the prime focus for future plans. Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked what recognition and commitment is the WATC giving to the growing tourism development importance of the Cape Range National Park? Answer: The WATC is facilitating the development of low-key wilderness style accommodation developments on the North West Cape. Sites have been identified within Cape Range National Park and Ningaloo Station to the south. [15 - 18 October 2001] E901

Question: Hon N.F. Moore notices from page 1044 of the Budget Statements that the contribution to regional tourism associations has gone from an estimated actual in 2000-01 of $1.494 million down to $1.459 million. That is a slight reduction. However, can the parliamentary secretary explain why there has been a reduction in funding to regional tourism associations? Secondly, in the same context, $500 000 per annum is being allocated for country tourist bureaus. Will that money be provided to the regional tourism authorities to distribute to their tourist bureaus, or will it go directly to the tourist bureaus? Answer: There has not been a reduction in the funding provided to the Regional Tourism Associations. Actual expenditure on Regional Tourism Associations in 2000-01 was $1.459 million, precisely in line with the budget for that year, and exactly the same as the proposed expenditure for 2001-02. An error in coding resulted in an amount of $35 000, which was actually expended in assistance to the Hotham Valley Tourist Railway in 2000-01, being shown as a grant to the Regional Tourism Associations.

Division 53: Transport - Question: Hon Alan Cadby asked: I ask a supplementary question: is it possible to put this question on notice so that I can be provided with information on the amount of money spent on education programs in 2000-01 and 2001-02? Answer: Actual expenditure during 2000/2001 from Road Trauma Trust Fund (RTTF) monies for community education campaigns was $6,781,612, this included speeding, drink driving, fatigue, non-use of restraints and other campaigns such as awareness of legislation changes for road safety. In this financial year a total of $1,886,197 has been spent from the Road Trauma Trust Fund for community education campaigns to 18 October 2001. Question : Hon B.M. Scott asked: “I understand that other states have been required to erect national entry statements. Will government authorities in this State be required to erect such signage?” Answer: Western Australia will be adopting a default built-up area speed limit of 50 km/h and as such there will be no requirements to erect entry signage. The new 50 km/h limit will apply to all built-up areas in the State, unless there is a sign stating that a different speed limit applies. Courtesy signs at the State borders and airports will be erected to inform travellers that the built-up area default limit is 50 km/h in Western Australia. The installation and maintenance of these signs will be the responsibility of Main Roads WA. Question : Hon Alan Cadby asked: I refer to page 899. The cost of services, salaries and allowances has fallen from $18.6 million to $18.1 million, which is very good. However, reference is also made to the number of full-time equivalents increasing from 455 to 460. Can the parliamentary secretary explain this paradox of an increase in staff numbers, but a decrease in salaries? Answer: Although there will be an increase in full-time equivalents from 455 to 460, there is no corresponding increase shown in the budget, due to the exclusion of overheads in Transport's 2001-02 budget. Note (a) in page 897 was included to highlight that there are such paradoxes when you compare indicators such as, in this case, full-time equivalents. Question : Hon M.J. Criddle provided this written question at the end of the session: The cost of the only remaining output in Transport, Education and Regulation, has been reduced from $65 million to $58 million. Please explain if these are real cost savings or merely cutting services? (page 895) Answer: The reduction in expenditure is mainly due to the discontinuance of the Vehicle Immobiliser Subsidy Scheme together with a small reduction in operating expenditure. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle provided this written question at the end of the session: (1) Is the revenue from the Speed and Red Light Fines of $20 million going into the Road Trauma Trust Fund? Page 905 (2) Please state where the Road Trauma Trust Fund is in the Budget? Answer: (1)-(2) The Road Trauma Trust Fund forms part of the controlled expenditure and revenue as shown on page 899 ‘Statement of Financial Performance’ and controlled payments and receipts on page 901 ‘Statement of Cash Flows’. All revenue from speed cameras and red light cameras will be spent on road safety. One third of that revenue will be channelled through the Road Trauma Trust Fund. Question: Hon B.M. Scott asked - (a) What is the cost of the newly planned Rockingham direct route? (b) How much has been budgeted to connect the rail with the buses or light rail? (c) What is the estimated cost of the infrastructure required to service the City of Rockingham?

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(d) Has the master plan for the rail corridor between Berrigan Drive and William Street been developed, and, if so, at what cost? Answer: (a) $68 million. (b) In the original South West Metropolitan Railway Master Plan, $6 million was budgeted for buses in the City Centre. The current study will identify what additional funds are required. (c) $68 million, of which the station at Roe Road/Ennis Avenue will be up to $12.9 million and Waikiki will be up to $12.0 million. (d) The Supplementary Master Plan report is due to be presented to Government in February 2002. The Supplementary Master Plan is currently 25 per cent complete. To date approximately $250 000 has been committed and approximately $110 000 has been expended on the Supplementary Master Plan. Question: Hon M.J. Criddle asked: Please state what is the origin of the funding for the construction of the rail portion of the Southern Transport Corridor? Answer: Funding for the construction of the rail portion of the Geraldton Southern Transport Corridor will be by borrowings. The project is included in the Western Australian Government Railways Commission Capital Works Program and has a total value of $53 million.

Division 8: Department of Treasury and Finance - Questions from Hon Bruce Donaldson MLC - (a) Page 169 Under Operating Activities: Commonwealth Grants - (i) What was the percentage reduction from the Commonwealth to the States by way of grants from 1983 - 1996 (in each year and also in dollars) – specifically to Western Australia’s share on an annual basis? (ii) What was the percentage reduction from 1997 to 2001 to the States by way of Grants (to the States), specifically to Western Australia’s share? (iii) If the percentage of Commonwealth taxes raised were still being distributed at 1983 levels to the States, what would Western Australia’s share be in 2001? Answer: (i)-(ii) Change in Grants to Western Australia (a) Nominal Real Real Per Capita % $ million % $ million % $ million 1983-84 16.4 225 9.3 254 7.3 281 1984-85 11.0 176 5.2 154 3.5 146 1985-86 6.2 110 -0.4 -13 -2.8 -119 1986-87 8.0 151 1.3 42 -1.4 -60 1987-88 8.7 177 0.9 30 -1.5 -60 1988-89 -0.7 -16 -8.2 -262 -10.9 -442 1989-90 5.9 129 -0.6 -19 -3.0 -107 1990-91 4.5 105 0.1 4 -1.6 -56 1991-92 3.4 82 1.4 42 0.0 1 1992-93 4.2 106 2.6 77 1.3 46 1993-94 0.7 18 -0.4 -11 -1.6 -57 1994-95 0.3 9 -0.1 -2 -1.7 -57 1995-96 1.6 42 -1.3 -39 -3.1 -106 1996-97 -1.8 -49 -3.5 -105 -5.3 -173 1997-98 1.4 37 0.2 4 -1.5 -46 1998-99 6.7 178 6.3 181 4.3 133 1999-00 1.2 33 -0.7 -21 -2.1 -66 2000-01 4.2 121 0.2 7 -1.2 -36 2001-02 5.7 171 4.2 129 2.8 87 [15 - 18 October 2001] E903

Aggregate Change: 1982-83 to 1995-96 95.7 1,316 9.4 258 -15.2 -590 1995-96 to 2001-02 18.3 492 6.6 196 -3.1 -102 Average Annual Change: 1982-83 to 1995-96 5.3 101 0.7 20 -1.3 -45 1995-96 to 2001-02 2.8 82 1.1 33 -0.5 -17 (a) Excludes North West Shelf royalties (which are treated as grants in government reporting), once-off grants and payments “through” the State (primarily for local government and private schools). For consistency, all numbers are on a pre-GST basis. Source: Commonwealth Budget Papers. (iii) If the Commonwealth provided the same proportion of its tax collections to the States as in 1982-83, grants to Western Australia in 2001-02 would be budgeted at $6,291.4 million, compared to the current estimate of $5,443.9 million (an increase of $847.5 million). These figures reflect grants as reported in the State’s 2001-02 Budget. For consistency in assessing the additional funding, the change in the percentage of Commonwealth taxes distributed to States has been assessed on a pre-GST basis. The scope of grants included in this calculation excludes North West Shelf royalties and payments through the States. Question: Hon George Cash asked what sanctions will the Government apply to chief executive officers and other senior staff who do not achieve the required dividend? Answer: As part of the 2001/02 budget formulation process, CEOs were required to sign off on Resource Agreements, which were then endorsed by the portfolio Minister and the Treasurer. In signing the Resource Agreement, the CEO of the department undertook, subject to change in government policy, to ensure that the department manages its resources to achieve the budgeted operating result, planned financial position, and cash flows as reported in the 2001/02 Budget Statements, or a more favourable outcome. In the event that a CEO does not achieve the objectives set out in the Resource Agreement, any sanctions would be a matter for the employing authority (the Minister for Public Sector Management) to exercise in accordance with the provisions of the CEO’s contract of employment and the Public Sector Management Act.

Division 44: Water and Rivers Commission - Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: I refer to page 711 of the Budget Statements, dot point four regarding contaminated sites and ask - which contaminated sites are having an impact? Answer: There are at least 2000 sites within the Perth Metropolitan Area that have the potential to cause significant environmental pollution. Of these sites, 500 have so far been proven to have caused soil and groundwater contamination. Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: Are any of these sites on the metropolitan water courses? Answer: There are 12 recorded abandoned landfill sites along the Swan Canning River foreshores, and a number of other sites are known to contribute contamination to these rivers. Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: Do sites near the Tonkin Park industrial estate contribute contamination to the Swan River through the Bayswater main drain? Answer: There are a number of sites in the Tonkin Park area that have contributed to heavy metal contamination in the Bayswater main drain. These sites are currently undergoing remediation. Drainage from the sites is being monitored and reported to the EPA to ensure compliance with clean-up targets. Question from Hon Peter Foss MLC: At what rate are new contaminated sites being discovered? Answer: Sites are usually discovered when land is being redeveloped. Currently about four new sites are referred to the Contaminated Sites Section each week. This number is expected to rise significantly when the proposed Contaminated Sites legislation is enacted. Trial remediation of atrazine contamination in groundwater in Dianella: An existing occurrence of groundwater contamination by the herbicide atrazine is being treated using a polymer mat installed below the water table. The mat is coated with naturally-occurring bacteria that are known to break down atrazine into harmless by-products. So far the field trial has not been as successful as laboratory tests in removing atrazine contamination. However, further trials of the technology are continuing at another site in Kwinana.

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Question from Hon George Cash MLC: I refer to page 728 of the Budget Statements and the capital user charge - which is $16.327 million this year on an asset base of $117.087 million. Why is this so high compared to CALM, which has a capital user charge of $9.463 million on an asset base of $2.031 billion? Answer: The CALM asset base of $2.031 billion includes exempt assets totalling $1.913 billion comprising reserves for conservation purposes. In addition, the capital user charge calculation set by Treasury in respect of the Water and Rivers Commission is currently being reviewed to ensure its integrity. Questions from the Hon Bruce Donaldson MLC: I refer to the engineering pilot projects mentioned on page 90 of the 2001-02 Economic and Fiscal Outlook paper and ask where will that project commence and does the Commission have any idea which towns, areas or subcatchments will be involved? Answer: The locations where the engineering evaluation initiative will be determined by an advisory committee. This advisory committee is currently being established. Some catchment groups have sent in expressions of interest in being involved, which will be presented to the advisory committee for consideration. Questions from the Hon Dee Margetts MLC: What revenue would be available to the Government if it charged 2c a kilolitre for groundwater or irrigation water? Answer: Given the fact that this is a hypothetical question which does not differentiate between revenue for potential maximum allocation and revenue for what has been allocated, I will answer this question by dealing with the potential and actual allocation separately, for both groundwater and surface water resources, with a combined figure in a subsequent answer. Groundwater: The 2000 National Land and Water Resources Audit for WA derived an estimate of the Sustainable Yield for each of the 174 Groundwater Management Units identified in the Audit. The total Sustainable Yield for the groundwater resources of WA has been estimated at approximately 6,304 GL/yr. Within this figure, 110 GL/yr is reserved for public water supply and other needs. The balance of 6194 GL/yr is available for commercial use. On the basis of potential allocation, at $0.02 per kilolitre, this translates to an annual revenue of approximately $124 million. Current licensed allocations without the reserve are approximately 1,599GL/yr and a further estimate of 110GL in unlicensed use, giving a total of approximately 1,709GL/yr. On the basis of current licensed and unlicensed allocation, at $0.02 per kilolitre, this would generate an annual revenue of approximately $34 million. Surface Water: The Audit also identified 44 river basins in WA with an estimated potential sustainable yield of 5,208GL/yr which at $0.02 per kilolitre, translates to approximately $104 million. Licensed allocation is approximately 1136GL/yr, which at $0.02 per kilolitre, translates to approximately $23 million. Within this allocation and estimated cost - The Ord River Scheme allocation is currently 350GL/yr which would generate $7 million. The total sustainable yield for the Ord Scheme is 1155GL/yr which if fully allocated would realise $23 million. South West Irrigation’s allocation is approximately 150GL/yr, which at $0.02 per kilolitre would generate $3 million. Overall Answer: The total revenue based on full allocation of the sustainable yield is predicted to be $228 million. The total revenue based on current licensed allocations would generate $57 million. Question from the Hon Dee Margetts MLC: Is there any estimate of the volume of water that is not likely to be subject to any charge under the State Agreement Acts? Answer: The allocations that have been detailed do include the volume of water under some State Agreement Acts, hence, the figures quoted will be less to reflect that some State Agreement Acts may prohibit charging such fees. In addition, the figures do not include any allocations held in reserve for future public water supplies which amount to 110 GL/yr. Question from the Hon Dee Margetts MLC: Given that water is such an important public asset, does the Water and Rivers Commission have any idea about the volume of water that is tied up in State Agreement Acts and therefore cannot be levied? Answer: The Commission is currently analysing all current State Agreement Acts to identify the agreements pertinent to water supplies. This work is still in progress and may I suggest the member liaise directly with the Commission on this question. Question from the Hon Dee Margetts MLC: Therefore, with just a 2c a kilolitre for the water that is currently not being charged for, we could add $60 million to government revenue? [15 - 18 October 2001] E905

Answer: If the hypothetical $0.02 per kilolitre charge is levied against all licensed and unlicensed allocation, excluding allocation reserved for future use, and water identified in State Agreement Acts, the estimated return would be $57 million pa. However, based on fees charged elsewhere, any future consideration of charges would need to consider a variety of issues and take a more complex approach than a flat volumetric charge. Such considerations could include variations for - Scheme supply vs self supply; Water to support state good considerations; Administrative vs volumetric charges; and Commercial vs non commercial uses. Other important issues that would need consideration include - Ensuring equity across all beneficiary sectors; Addressing potential cross subsidies across industry and geographical areas; and Capacity to pay and economic impacts on water users and other industries; Based on the 2000 Audit sustainable yield calculations, the $57 million has the potential to increase to more than $220 over time as water systems become progressively fully allocated. I would also be happy to make available a copy of the 2000 Land and Water Resources Audit which lists all the Groundwater Management Units and River Basins.

Western Power - Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked - The Annual Report and Environment Review 2001 states ‘Western Power takes its environmental responsibilities seriously. We rigorously adhere to all State and Federal environmental requirements’ (page 32). (1) Which of Western Power’s power stations have licensed DEP/EPA emissions limits and what parameters and testing requirements are they licensed for? (2) Which of Western Power’s power stations have no licensed DEP/EPA emissions limits: (a) What justification has Western Power for not seeking emission licensing? (3) Which Western Power power stations have stack emission testing equipment installed and which don’t? (4) For each of Western Power’s power stations identified in Question 3 that have stack monitoring, what parameters are monitored? (5) For each of Western Power’s power stations identified in Question 3 that have no stack monitoring, what justification has Western Power got for not monitoring emissions? (6) If Western Power was to purchase electricity from a private sector power station would it require the power station to be licensed for air emissions by the DEP/EPA and to operate to such conditions? (7) Does Western Power intend to obtain air emission licences for all its power stations from the DEP/EPA and how much money is in the current budget for this process? Answer: (1) All Western Power power stations that are prescribed premises are either licensed or registered as required by Part 3 of the Environmental Protection Regulations 1987. Licensing is for the parameters cited in Schedule 4 of these Regulations. Limits for specific emissions are set by the DEP and exist for the following stations: Collie Power Station Kwinana Power Station Muja Power Station TiWest Gas Turbine Worsley Gas Turbine Derby Power Station Broome Power Station Carnarvon Power Station Esperance Power Station Exmouth Power Station

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Testing requirements are set as conditions by the DEP, as required for the specific station and specific parameters. (2) The following stations are licensed or registered and do not have any emission limits: Windimurra (registered) Pinjar Gas Turbine Station Mungarra Gas Turbine Station Kalgoorlie Gas Turbine Station (emergency plant) Geraldton Gas Turbine (emergency plant) Power stations at the following locations do not have limits since they are not prescribed premises and do not have licences: Kununurra Wyndham Meekatharra Fitzroy Crossing Mt Magnet Denham Halls Creek Cue Camballin Hopetoun Laverton Marble Bar Wiluna Sandstone Nullagine Broome 12 Mile Gascoyne Junction Menzies Yalgoo Wittenoom (a) There are no head powers under the Environmental Protection Act for these stations to be licensed as they are not prescribed premises under the Regulations. (3) The following power stations have continuous emission monitoring systems installed: Kwinana Power Station Muja Power Station Collie Power Station All other licensed power stations monitor emissions through regular periodic testing programs according to licence conditions. (4) The following stations monitor associated parameters as shown below, including those required by licence conditions in some cases: Kwinana Power Station: sulphur dioxide, particulates Muja Power Station: sulphur dioxide, particulates, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides Collie Power station: sulphur dioxide, particulates, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides (5) Western Power monitors emissions from its prescribed stations as required. (6) Western Power’s policy is that all suppliers will comply with all legal requirements for their operations. (7) Western Power maintains environmental licenses as necessary and in accord with the relevant environmental legislation. The costs of maintenance of licences are part of annual operating budgets. Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked - The Annual Report and Environment Review 2001 states ‘Western Power is at the forefront developing new renewable energy generation, using wind, bio-energy and solar technologies to counter [15 - 18 October 2001] E907 concerns about greenhouse gas emissions and to meet government targets’ (page 32). Western Power also states that under federal government legislation it has a requirement to source approximately 700GWh of RECs pa by the year 2010. (1) Does Western Power have a policy of assisting the development of a WA sustainable energy industry by preferentially sourcing its Renewable Energy Certificate (RECs) requirement from projects developed within WA by WA industry? And is Western Power aware of the Government’s Buy Local policy? (2) All the low cost RECs produced in WA by the solar hot water industry are currently purchased by a Queensland company – there was a concerted effort by WA industry to place its RECs with Western Power. Why did Western Power not purchase WA industry RECs at the time they were offered to the market? And has Western Power offered and not purchased any other RECs from any other RE projects in WA – for current or future supply? (3) The development of RE projects will assist WA to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The private sector has numerous proposals to renewable energy projects but can’t get built because of the structure of the WA market. When is Western Power going to allow independent RE projects onto the grid and allow them to sell electricity under the same method that Western Power operates its own green power schemes and as required under the Government’s 50MWh access order? (4) It has been 2 years since the release of Colin Barnett’s policy statement allowing 34kW customers to take renewable energy supply from independent sources. The Renewable Energy Access Working Group (REAWG) has spent one-and-a-half years working on Renewable Energy Access Guidelines, which have been submitted for ratification by Parliament. Why have these Guidelines been held back by Western Power Retail and Corporate? I am aware of at least one Access Agreement signed by Western Power Network with a renewable energy generator to supply customers wishing to take renewable energy supply. But this signed Agreement was subsequently declared invalid by Western Power Corporate. Melville City Council, which is a signed up customer of this generator, is complaining to the Minister for Energy and to me that Western Power is obfuscating network access for the renewable generator. If Western Power is truly interested in helping WA achieve a sustainable energy environment, why causing such difficulties to independent effort to build a sustainable energy industry in WA? (5) Customers (34kW and above) have had the right to purchase renewable energy from their supplier of choice since 1 October 2000. How come there still are no Regulations governing renewable energy access? How long will Western Power continue to delay implementation of the Renewable Energy Access Guidelines submitted by REAWG? Western Power knows fully well that the energy balancing requirements in the existing Transmission and Distribution Regulations are designed for large scale fossil fuel generators and are very costly for these to operate already. These requirements are absolutely unworkable for renewable generators. Why does Western Power insists on using these requirements for independent renewable energy generators? (6) Why are Western Power’s renewable energy generators not subject to these same Regulations as are independent generators? REAWG minutes show Western Power’s Albany wind farm will not be subject to the Regulations. Why this double standard? (7) Western Power has its own renewable energy business development group, including established joint ventures with private companies to do projects (see my questions further below). Two critical issues emerge from here: (a) there seems to be a clear conflict of interest issue, where it can be interpreted that Western Power has been obstructing independent renewable projects because these compete directly with Western Power’s own business ventures; and (b) by preventing competition in the renewable market Western Power is causing an artificially high cost structure for renewable energy, dampening public support for renewable. What does Western Power do to deal with these two issues? (8) Given the conflict of interest, it appears there are only two options to resolve it: (a) Western Power ceases to develop renewable energy business of its own and goes out to call for public tenders to provide it with renewable energy, without allowing any of Western Power’s joint venture companies or subsidiaries to bid - this approach is similar to the power procurement process for fossil fuel capacity as proposed by the previous and current Government; or (b) Western Power Network to be separated from Western Power Corporate and Retail so that Network can (and is seen to) provide neutral access services to all participants. What does Western Power think of these options?

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Answer: (1) Western Power will source its Renewable Energy Certificate (REC) requirements in a commercial manner, as is required by its enabling legislation. It is expected that this will be achieved from a variety of renewable energy projects, predominantly developed within Western Australia by a range of industry participants. Western Power is aware of the Government’s Buy Local policy. For example construction contracting and materials for the recently completed Albany wind farm were sourced locally in WA, with the exception of the turbines and blades themselves which are not currently manufactured in Australia. (2) Solar hot water system RECs in WA are currently purchased from system manufacturers by a Queensland company, as part of a national procurement scheme. This was also the case when an offer was made to Western Power in May 2001. Given that Western Power’s early REC requirement could be met from existing projects, there was a diminished need to source RECs in the new and uncertain market immediately after the Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act came into effect in April 2001. Nevertheless, Western Power is now finalising arrangements with WA solar hot water system manufacturer agents to purchase at competitive prices, RECs associated with valid installations of their systems in WA. Western Power has not been offered, and refused to consider, RECs from any other projects in WA that promised RECs at a competitive price and were developed to the extent that associated technical, financial and environmental risks were identified and addressed. (3) The price of electricity delivered by renewable energy generators to their customers, and their ability to demonstrate long term revenue stability to their financiers are believed to be the key impediments to private renewable energy projects. Development of a non-discriminatory access regime is a complex task. However, access to customers with consumption greater than 300 000kWh via a renewable access regime should be in place by the end of December this year. Western Power offers a product called NaturalPower, in which customers’ total electricity requirement are supplied through its portfolio of generators, largely fossil fuel, and the customer pays a price premium on part of its electricity purchases to support the development of new renewable energy generation by Western Power. This type of product is offered in other parts of Australia and may be offered by anyone with a portfolio of generation. It should also be noted that Western Power's NaturalPower product predates the MRET legislation. New renewable energy projects will now have the advantage of REC (Renewable Energy Certificate) revenue. (4) (a) The Renewable Energy Access Working Group (REAWG) has a complex task to complete. It has considered four options to date, all of which have flaws. No option has yet been identified that is acceptable to all parties. Considering the complexity, the time taken is not unreasonable, nor uncommon in other jurisdictions. For example, flaws in the preferred Metered Option emerged only in June 2001 while detailed implementation was being considered for the first time, and also partly as a consequence of the proposed lower contestability threshold of 50 000 kWh per year. No Guidelines have been submitted to Parliament for ratification. Western Power has proposed a solution to REAWG and is working to a timetable to complete an access regime before the end of 2001. (b) In regard to the invalid access agreement, Western Power Networks did negotiate, in good faith, terms of access with a prospective renewable energy supplier and attempted to establish an access agreement. While documents were signed, subsequent independent legal advice (including that of a QC) was that the “agreement” was invalid under law because it erroneously attempted to exempt the parties from certain obligations required by the Regulations. However, negotiations with the supplier have continued and Western Power Networks is optimistic about concluding an access agreement in the near future. This agreement will comply with the requirements of the existing Regulations. (5) Western Power is aware of the difficulties facing renewable energy generators in energy balancing, and has proposed relaxing the balancing requirements for renewable generators. Energy balancing is an issue facing all market participants as contestable customers become smaller. Finding a workable, affordable solution is a key challenge for the Electricity Reform Task Force. Western Power, however, is hopeful that an interim proposal for renewable generators could be in place by end of 2001. (6) The Albany Wind Farm forms part of the Western Power generation portfolio and cannot be compared to a single generator seeking access to supply defined loads. The portfolio of generators and loads is subject to a [15 - 18 October 2001] E909

Network access agreement. Network access charges for Western Power Retail's loads and generators are levied at published rates, as for any other user, and network access charges are the same for all. (7) Western Power's renewable energy business development group performs a legitimate, and successful, role in promoting renewable energy generation in Western Australia. This can take the form of direct investment, such as the Albany or Denham Wind Farms, joint ventures, or procurement from third party renewable energy generators. Achieving the best, most competitive outcome for renewable energy is the guiding principle in its operation. Western Power is not opposed to competition for renewable generation and believes this to be the best way to achieve the lowest prices for consumers. In seeking the lowest prices, and not subsidising inefficient producers, it may sometimes be perceived as preventing competition. (8) (a) Western Power sees having its own renewable energy business development group as contributing to rather than curtailing competition. (b) Western Power Networks is already ring-fenced and required to provide non discriminatory access. Networks does not favour Western Power own renewable energy generation (see item 6 above). Question: Hon Robin Chapple asked - Western Power has established joint venture companies that are developing renewable energy projects, undertaking energy audits and providing energy management services in competition with the private sector. (a) What are the names of these companies, ownership structures, budgets for the next financial year and what is Western Power’s liability, both financial and fiduciary, with regards to these companies? (b) Are these companies required to return a profit? (c) Are these companies Government Trading Enterprises and if so what mechanisms exist to stop them competing unfairly against our WA independent renewable energy project developers? (d) Are these companies developing or planning to develop renewable energy projects on the eastern seaboard? (taking advantage of the open competition) Will the RECs produced by these projects be used to satisfy WA’s REC requirement? Answer: (a) Western Power renewable energy company: Wind Energy Corporation Ownership: 50% Western Power, 50% Enercon Power Corporation 2002 Budget: $1.5 million Western Power liability: Limited to half the budget Fiduciary liability: Wind Energy Corporation Board (b) Yes. (c) No. (d) Yes. It is unlikely that the RECs produced by these projects would be used to satisfy WA’s REC requirement. Question: Hon George Cash asked - What is the cost of coal and gas? Answer: The cost of coal and gas to Western Power is an issue for the coal and gas purchase contracts that Western Power has with its fuel suppliers. In general, the following points can be made about Western Power’s fuel supply: (1) The average cost of coal to Western Power from its two coal suppliers in the Collie basin is about $50 per tonne. This is by far the most expensive coal for a utility in Australia. The equivalent coal in Queensland and New South Wales will cost $15 to $30 per tonne. When combined with the scale of the generation operations in these states, Western Power has stated the cost of coal is the dominant reason for the high cost of electricity in Western Australia compared to the eastern states. (2) Western Power purchases natural gas from the gas producers in the Carnarvon basin under a variety of contracts. In general, the price of gas under these contracts reflects the market conditions at the time the contracts were drawn up. Western Power probably achieves a similar gas price to other large consumers, but aims to achieve lower prices when its existing contracts are renewed. (3) The cost of gas delivered to Perth for power generation is dependent on the cost of gas transport in the Epic pipeline. This price is currently under regulatory review. Western Power believes the final outcome likely to be somewhere between 75 cents and $1.00 per Gj delivered into the metropolitan area. (4) At current gas prices, and with gas transport in the range discussed above and with current coal prices, Western Power currently considers that gas fired baseload power generation is more economical than coal fired generation. The gas fired generating plant currently being built at Kwinana will have an efficiency of about 50%, compared to the efficiency of the latest unit at Collie at 36%. This will have significant benefits in terms

E910 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

of reducing the average cost of electricity and reducing greenhouse gas emission from the Western Power portfolio. Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked - I refer to the annual report of Western Power, page 56, which relates to sustainable energy. In particular, there is a mention on that page of the Commonwealth Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act 2000. Reference is also made to the national competition policy package legislated in 1995, which guarantees access to third party utilities. Given the importance of renewable energy mentioned in this report, how many applications has Western Power received since the 1995 competition policy legislation for guaranteed access was put through? Of these, with how many people has Western Power been able to negotiate access? Answer: Since the commencement of network open access in January 1997, some 46 access applications have been made in the south west grid, and six access agreements have been negotiated and implemented. It is important to note that - Of the 46 applications, some have been withdrawn or cancelled by mutual agreement, some were/are competing applications for the same sites, and some are still in the negotiation phase. The six agreements cover multiple sites, totalling more than twenty. Of the 46 applications, nine are related to supply of renewable energy, with one (Albany Wind Farm) having been progressed to an access agreement. Renewable energy market operating arrangements for independent generators have yet to be fully developed and the necessary changes to Regulations are not yet implemented. It is intended for these arrangements to be completed by the end of December. Question: Hon Dee Margetts asked - I have been told there would be problems linking renewable energy sources to the proposed structure of the powerline. What advice can you give the committee on any such problems? Answer: The method of connection of generation sources to the transmission network is essentially the same, whether they are renewable energy or fossil fuel based. The Pinjar-Cataby line will operate at 132,000 volts or more. Connection at this voltage would generally only be practical for relatively large generation plants of about 10 megawatts capacity or higher. Smaller renewable energy sources would economically connect to the distribution network which operates at lower voltages. The Pinjar-Cataby line is necessary to meet the load growth of the area and to maintain reliability and quality of supply. However, it also provides some increased network capacity necessary for the connection of new generation sources including a number of possible renewable energy projects. Question: Hon Barry House asked - My question relates to Western Power policy on the construction of powerlines. Does Western Power have a hierarchy of priorities? For example, does it use public land in preference to private land or cleared land in preference to vegetated land? How and when does it decide to use underground powerlines instead of overhead powerlines, and how does it incorporate compensation into its decision-making process? What is the broad policy that Western Power adopts – what criteria are used when making those decisions? Answer: Priorities for line construction: In constructing power lines Western Power attempts to minimise the overall impact of the line. Such impacts include biophysical and social issues. All these issues are ranked according to geographic extent (local, regional, global), the existence of regulations and legislation, the duration of the impact (short or medium-term or permanent). Western Power’s priority is therefore related to the extent of the impact rather than the land tenure. Western Power is guided by the Environment Protection Authority, particularly Bulletin 966 which relates to land clearing. This means Western Power will generally give vegetated land a higher priority (to preserve) than cleared land. However, Western Power also takes into consideration the wishes of landowners, potential land use and other factors, which may result in lines traversing some areas of remnant vegetation. Underground versus overhead: Cost is a major consideration when deciding whether to construct power lines underground or overhead. For example the cost of placing distribution lines underground is about twice that of overhead, and in the case of transmission lines the cost of placing them underground is approximately 10 times the overhead equivalent. Compensation issues: Under the terms of the Energy Operators (Powers) Act 1979 Western Power is required to acquire easements on all transmission lines operating at 200kV or above. Easement compensation is certainly a factor in the decision making process for transmission lines above 200kV but not for those below 200kV. Compensation valuation for transmission line easements (easement) are assessed and determined independently by the Valuer General’s Office or, in some cases by private licensed valuers. Valuation principles are well established, with heads of claim determined by the provisions of the recently promulgated Land Administration Act 1997 (LAA), which [15 - 18 October 2001] E911 has replaced the Public Works Act in this regard. In determining the quantum of the compensation, valuers must also take into consideration the Energy Operators (Powers) Act 1979 (The Act), the provisions of which will prevail where there is inconsistency between the two Acts. Typically, the compensation value of an easement will take into consideration factors such as: (a) The restrictions in use or enjoyment of the land imposed by the easement; (b) The full value of the land which may be rendered unproductive by virtue of the presence of any access track or structures; and (c) Any other inconvenience resulting from the registration of the easement. If there is more than one transmission line on the property the valuation will take into account the number of transmission lines and the accumulative effect they may have on the property. A proper valuation will often use different methodologies to verify that the result given by the chosen method as most appropriate, is correct. Western Power would at no time offer any influence in this. In broad terms, there are two methods of valuation available in assessing compensation – the ‘before and after’ method and the ‘piecemeal’ method. The ‘before and after‘ method consists of valuing the land in its original state and then valuing it in its affected state. The compensation amount is then determined by the difference between the two values, plus an amount to cover any consequential losses, which may result from the registration of the easement. The ‘piecemeal’ method entails the valuer itemising all the claims for compensation and placing a value on each of these individually. The summated amount of all of these items is then the amount for compensation. Land should be valued according to its ‘highest and best’ use. Thus, valuation must take into account development potential, but exclude any remote and speculative possibilities. Western Power believes that the above methods do provide a fair and equitable compensation to the affected landowner, as the amount paid is designed to compensate the landowner for the actual presence of the easement and the restrictions it imposes. Question: Hon George Cash asked - What have been the changes to previous policy since the change of Government in February 2001, and are any changed contemplated in the near to mid term as a result of that change of Government? Is Western Power bound by the state government wages policy, and if not, why not? Answer: Western Power currently has in place a Certified Agreement (CA) with the Australian Services Union (ASU) and the Communication, Electrical and Plumbing Union (CEPU) which does not expire until September 2002. It was registered in the Australian Industrial Relations Commission by Senior Deputy President Coleman in September 1999. The CA was agreed to by the unions and voted on by Western Power employees with increases of 12.85% paid for all of the terms within it. Western Power is not bound by the provisions of the Public Sector Management Act. Discussions are taking place between Western Power and the Minister for Energy about the appropriate application of the State Government’s wages policy. Question: Hon Bill Stretch asked - I refer to pages 196 and 206. (a) What is the WA Green Power Policy Program? ($850,000) (b) What does it do or aim to do that is not already covered by: (i) alternative energy programs; (ii) renewable energy funds; (iii) other bodies and funds that may be relevant that are listed in “Details of Controlled Grants” in the table at the top of page 206? Answer: (a) The Green Power Policy was a program of the previous government under which the government would match, on a dollar for dollar basis, the premium paid by the public for Green Power. This money was to be used to assist independent power producers establish renewable energy generators. $850,000 was allocated in the 2000/01 budget for this purpose. Western Power’s Green Power product (NaturalPower) was not heavily promoted by Western Power and the public take-up was low. Only $121,257 was paid as a Green Power Premium over that financial year. The Alternative Energy Development Board was charged with the responsibility of recommending on use of matching funds. With the limited funds available, the Board was not able to identify any scope for effectively assisting the establishment of independent renewable energy generators. Following assessment the program has been discontinued.

E912 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

(b) The Green Power Policy program aimed to assist the establishment of new renewable generators. Other support by government in this area is as follows: (i) The Alternative Energy Development Board Trust Account funded at $250,000 per annum is used to support a range of research, development, demonstration and education projects that promote renewable energy or energy efficiency. Individual grants are usually less than $50,000. (ii) Substantial renewable energy funds are available as a subsidy of up to 50% for approved renewable energy systems replacing diesel generation in remote areas. An amount of $5.251 million has been approved by the Commonwealth through the Renewable Remote Power Generation Program (RRPGP) for 2001/02 and it is estimated that at least $19.5 million will be provided over four years. These funds are available to independent power producers in regional areas. (iii) None of the other funds listed as Controlled Grants, Subsidies and Transfer Payments are designed to provide direct assistance to independent renewable generators. Question on Notice submitted by Hon Robin Chapple: Western Power’s Muja Power Station’s particulate emissions are the highest of any power station in Australia. See Table 1 (drawn from information in WP Annual Report p38). Muja’s particulate emission levels are many times worse than Australia’s next most polluting power station on a emission basis and over 100 times worse than the normal case. Given that age is no excuse as there are Australian power stations that are older than Muja - a What is the justification for allowing Muja Power Station to emit at such a high level? b Why has Western Power not installed emission control equipment on the Muja power station? c What are the health risks associated with particulate emissions? d Has a health risk assessment been done on the impact of the high particulate emission rate for the Muja Power Station? e What would be the required particulate emission rate if Muja Power Station was licensed by the DEP/EPA and operated by the private sector? f What are the factors that make Muja’s particulate emissions so much higher than other power stations in Table 1? g How much money is in the current budget for the remedial work required to reduce the particulate emissions from Muja? With regards to responsible environmental management and a commitment to greenhouse gas reduction such as the Albany Greenhouse Allies (page 46 annual report) - a Why does WP promote such schemes as the Albany Greenhouse Allies, which have a small target audience, while also advertising reverse cycle airconditioning (RCA) on their bills, which go to every customer - particularly as RCAs increase electricity loads and hence greenhouse impacts? b It appears from the annual report that less than 0.05 per cent of the electricity generated within WA comes from renewable energy, and that the majority of this comes from independent power projects. Is this correct? c It appears that the Albany wind farm project on dollar per MW basis is some 30 per cent higher than the cost of wind farms being currently built by the private sector with similar quality parameters. Why is this so? A serious implication of this for sustainable energy is that the Government and community see renewable as a very high-cost product relative to fossil fuels. a Does Western Power share this perception? b What are Western Power’s general views on the subject? Answer: (1) Muja Power Station comprises four Stages: A/B C & D. Stages A/B have 4 x 60 MW coal fired steam-turbine generators commissioned in the late 1960s. Stage C has 2 x 200 MW generators, commissioned in 1980. Stage D has 2 x 200 MW generators commissioned in 1985. Dust removal equipment (electrostatic precipitators) are installed in the flue gas outlet from the boilers of Stages C&D (800 MW), but not the boilers of Stages A&B (240 MW). The four emission points (A/B, C & D) are separately noted in the DEP licence for Muja Power Station but amalgamated for NPI reporting. [15 - 18 October 2001] E913

Muja is situated in a remote area where there is no public nuisance from particulate emissions. There is no evidence of harm from the emissions. Western Power is currently planning to remove the A/B plant from service in 2006, not because of their emissions, but because of the age and commercial performance of the units. (b) Cost of retrofitting dust extraction equipment to Muja Stages A/B cannot be justified given the limited remaining life and low thermal efficiency of the plant, and high cost of fuel. (c) We are not aware of any major health impacts associated with small dust particles such as flyash. (d) Studies on the environmental conditions in areas surrounding Muja Power Station commenced in 1963, prior to the commissioning of Stages A/B. More recently, a comprehensive Particulate Matter monitoring programme has been implemented. This programme collects real time dust readings from various locations around the Collie basin. These data are compared to ambient dust standards published by The World Health Organisation, National Health and Medical Research Council and the National Environmental Protection Council. The only time these standards are exceeded in the Collie basin are during times of forest burning. All of these data are provided to the DEP. (e) Muja Power Station is licensed by the DEP. Stages C&D have a particulate emission discharge limit of 0.25 gm/cubic metre. These units are fitted with electrostatic precipitators. Ownership is irrelevant to the emissions. When Stages A/B of Muja Power Station were constructed, dust removal equipment was not a standard feature on coal fired generating plant. It was also believed, due to the location of the plant, that the inclusion of precipitators at Muja Power Station was not warranted as it is situated 20 kms away from the nearest residential population. Stages C&D boilers’ emissions are well below the 0.25 gm/cubic metre discharge limit, but amalgamation of all the discharges raises the overall figure for Muja Power Station. Other stations listed in Table 1 have either already removed from service the original plant, or extensively refurbished it. (g) Western Power has investigated the cost of installing precipitators on Muja Stages A/B and this has been costed at between $25 to $30 million. This is a substantial amount of capital to invest in assets which will become obsolete in the near future. Currently, take or pay coal commitments and investment strategies on Muja Stages A/B plant are geared toward decommissioning in 2006. This, however, is dependent on the way in which the West Australian energy market evolves and on gaining approval to replace old plant. No budget allocation has been made for remedial work to Muja Stages A/B. (2) (a) The Albany Greenhouse Allies Project was undertaken by Western Power in cooperation with Australian Greenhouse Office Greenhouse Allies Scheme whereby existing Greenhouse Challenge companies, such as Western Power, are asked to mentor groups of small businesses to undertake greenhouse gas abatement activities. The Albany Allies was the first of these in Western Australia. The recent (winter) reverse cycle airconditioning promotion (RCA) focussed on the use of RCA for heating homes and in this application it is energy (and greenhouse gas emissions) effective. (b) Historically, renewable energy has constituted just under 1% of electricity sold by Western Power and about 90% of that was sourced from independent power producers. This low percentage to date, in comparison with other States, is mainly because of the lack of traditional hydroelectric opportunities within Western Australia. With the completion of Western Power’s Albany Wind Farm, electricity production from renewable energy in Western Australia will be increased by over 60%. (c) The installed cost for the Albany Wind Farm Project is about $2000 per kilowatt. Wind farm capital costs are site specific depending on location (coastal reserve versus farmland), wind farm design (size and number of wind turbines), distance from a suitable electrical grid and cost of interconnection. When the overall cost of electricity production is considered, not only the capital cost is taken into account, but also the potential wind energy available from the site is of paramount importance. Thus, while one project may have a higher capital or installed cost, if its potential wind energy extraction is high, then it may have a lower overall electricity production cost. This is the case for Albany where the installed cost is about average for Australia, but the electricity production cost will compare very favourably with other Australian wind farms. Albany has been assessed as one of the best wind farm sites in Australia because of its potential for wind energy as well as other factors mentioned above. (3) (a) It has been the experience of Western Power that at public renewable energy forums, the audience seems to expect renewable electricity to be cheaper than that from fossil fuels, because the energy source is considered to be “free”.

E914 [COUNCIL - Estimates Committee - Supplementary Information]

Electricity from renewable sources generally costs more to generate and supply than fossil-fuelled electricity. This is because the installed capital costs for renewable technologies are generally more than those for fossil-fuelled plant. Also, electricity production from many renewable energy sources such as sun and wind is not available on demand, which requires the electrical back up of conventional fossil plant. This “spinning reserve” adds considerable additional cost to renewable electricity. (b) There are specific opportunities (depending on location, energy source and the technology utilised) where Western Power is seeking to increase the input to the electricity mix from renewable energy sources. This will only happen where a project is technically sound and meets certain Western Power internal commercial hurdle rates. Increasing the level of renewable energy production in Western Australia will potentially increase the overall cost of electricity to consumers, regardless of who the generators happen to be. However, Western Power believes that there are environmental benefits for renewable energy which need to be weighed against potential cost increases. ______