Tuesday, 28th September, 1954
LOK SABHA DEBATES
(Part I—Questions and Answer)
V O L U M E l S ; 1 9 5 4
{27th September to 30th September, ipS4)
SEVENin SESSION
1 9 5 4
LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI CONTENTS
VoUme V— From 37th S ep tm t^ {0 30th September, 954 X
CoLtrMNS^
'4onday, 27th September, 1954 Oral Answers td Questions— " Surred Questions Nos. 1348 to 135a, 1354, i 353. 1359 > i36l» 13^3 to 1370, 1373, 1373 to 1378,1380 to 1382, 1384,1386 to 1390, I3^» 1394 to 1398,1069 and 1 3 5 8 ...... 1629 —^ Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Noa. 1345 to 1347, I353> i 356> i357» 1360, 1362, 1371, 1372, 1374. I379 > 1383 * i 385 > I39 X and 1393 • 1669— 78 Unstarred Questions Nos. 715 to 765 and 767 to 791 . . ■ 678— 1720
Tuesday, 28th September, 1954 Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1399, 1401 to 1405, 1407, 1410,1412 to 1414, 1416, i4i7> 141910 1422,-1424 to 1426, i4^ A and 1429 to i 433 ...... 1721—56 Written Answers to Questions— * ' ^ Starred Questions Nos. 1400, 1406, 1408, 1409, 1411, 1415, 1418, i4as» 1427. 1428, 1436 to 1438 and 1440 to 1442 , . . 175 6 -6 6 Unctarred Questions Nos. 79a to 839. 841 to 858, 838-A and 858-B ...... 1766—1804.
(I) ( «) W td m u b ^ , 29th Septen^, i$s 4 Column''
Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos, 1443, 1444, 1447 to 1451* H 53> I454» 1456 to 1458, 1460 to 1464, 1495, 1465. 1468, 1470 to 1473. I475> 1477 to 1480,1482,1484 to i486,1488 and 1490 . 1805— 45 Short Notice Question No. 15 , . . . . 1843— 46
Written Answers to Quesftons—
Starred Questions Nos. 1445,1446, i 432> i455. 1459 . 1466, 1469. 1474.1476. 1481, 1483. 1487* 1489. 1491 to 1493, 1496 to 1505, 1505-A, 1506 and 1507 ..... 1846—62 Unstarred Questions Nos. 859 to 889» 891, 893, 894 and 896 to 9 1 1 ...... 1862— 94 Thursday, 30th September, 1954 ^Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 1508, 1510 to 1513,1516, 1519, 1520, 1522,1523. 1525.1527. 1529 to 1533, i 535.Sa«d *537 to 1555 ^895—1935
Short Notice Question No. 16...... 1935— 38 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos, 1509, 1514, 1515, 1517, 1518, 1521, 1524,1526,1528, 1534 and 1 5 3 6 ...... 1938—44 Unstarred Questions Nos. 912, to ^ 7 , 947"A, 948 to 957, 957-A, 958 to 973 and 9 7 5 ...... 1944— 80 LOK SABHA DEBATES (Part I—Questions and Answers)
I 72I 1722 LOK SABHA Shrl D. C. Sbarma: May I know what the hon. Minister means by Tuesday, 28th September, 1954. saying that the pattern of education' is to be changed?
-Lok Sahha met at Eleven of Mr. Speaker I think let us not the Clock. spend time oyer this now. As he said, it is a long note, the hon. Mem [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] ber may study it and put specific questions about the points in it. ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Shri D. C. Sharma: May I know Central A dvisory B oard of E duca t io n if the recommendations of the sub committee have been circulatea to the •1399. Shrl D. C. Shanna: WiU the State Governments and their react Minister of Education be pleased to ions obtained? state whether the recommendations of the sub“Committee - set up by the Dr. M. M. Das: Yes; they have Central Advisory Board for Secondary been circulated to the State Govern Education have been examined? ments and we have up-till now re ceived replies from the following The Parliamentary Secretary to the State Governments: PEPSU. Madhya Minister of Education (Dr. M. M. Pradesh, Bombay. Andhra. Punjab. Das): Yes. Assam, Travancore-Cochin, Hydera bad, Madras. Saurashtra. Bhooal and Sbri D. C. Sharma: May I know West Bengal. what the recommendations of the sub-committee are with re*?ard to the Shr^ D. C. Sharma: May I know if recommendations of the report? the recommendations of the Com mission appointed by the Central Dr. M. M. Das: The recommendat Ministry of Education have been col ions of the sub-committee runs into lated with the recommendations made ten closely typed foolscap pages. It by the Secondary Education Com is not possible to give in a few words mittees appointed by so many Gov the recommendations to the hon. ernments all over India? Member. But, I may say that these recommendations relate to a change Dr. M. M. Das: So far this parti in the pattern of secondary education, cular sub-oommlttee appointed by the establishtnent of multi-purpose Chairman of C.A.B.E. in the question , schools, general improvement of is concerned, the terms of reference teaching in secondary schools, im are to make suggestions about the provement of libraries etc. earliest implementation of the re commendations of the Secondary Mr. Speaker: I think it would be Education Commission. better if a copy is placed on the Table of the House. Sliri S. N. Das: In view of the fact that the implementation of the re Dr. M M, Das: Yes; Sir, I will do commendations of this Commission h. will entail sufficient amount of money 425 L.S.D. 1724 1723 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers
to be spent by the various States (b) The number of posts militaris concerned, may I know whether the ed up-to-date is 159 in the various Central Government has given any cadres. indication to the various Slate Gov ernments as to the financial ciid that (c) The expenditure incurred on the Central Government would be the entire posts before and after giving to them? • militarisation comes to Rs. 2,64,240/ p.m. and Rs. 2,63,460/- p.m. res Dr. M. M. Das: The present scheme pectively. that has been circulated to the State Governments involves an expenditure Sfcri V. P. Nayar: May i know of approximately Rs. 15-96 crores. whether any relaxation has been Out of this sum the Central Govern shown in respect of such persons who ment would be required to contribute are militarised, especially in regard Rs. 9*76 crores and the State Govern to physical qualifications and age? ments have been asked to contribute Rs. 6 2 croros. Sardar Majithia: So far as physical qualifications are concerned, people Shri V. P. Nayar. May 1 know are checked up according tc their whether these recommendations in age, which means that a person who clude any specific recommendation is 45 is not expected to be as fi» as a for the improvement of students’ person of 25. So far as the other health and aljo the necessity to pro point—qualification—is concerned, they vide for free meals for those deserv are qualified. ing students so that they cm take advantage to the fullest extent of the S’hri V. P. Nayar: My point does education which is given? |not seem io have been understood by the hon. Minister. I want to know Dr. M. M. Das: The hon. Member whether, in view of the technical should understand that education is qualifications of such persons who are a State subject. militarised, any relaxation in res pect of the general rules which re Shri V. P. Nayar: That I know. quire a certain physical quaUfication etc., being satisfied, is being shown to Dr. M. M. Das: So far as physical these candidates? health of students is concerned, re commendations have been made. Sardar Majithia: I have not quite understood the question. As I have M ilitarisation op M. E. S. S t a f f already said, physical standards vary with the age. ♦1401. Shrl V. P. Nayar: Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to Mr. Speaker: Whatever the physical state: standards may be for a particular age, has thei^ been any relaxation in (a) the number of total M.E.S. basic that category or grouo of age, in cadres to be militarised; regard to other qualifications?
(b) the number of M.E.S. basic Sardar Majithia: No such relaxat Subordinate Cadres militarised up-to- ion has been shown. date and their categories; and (c) the expenditure incurred on flhri V. P. Nayar: May 1 know them per month? whether it is a fact that, as the bulk of M.E.S. works are executed by The Deputy Minister of Defence contractors; there is great unemploy (Sardar MaJltWa): (a) The total ment and the necessity to militarise number of posts to be militarised, in more and more persons is thereby seven diiferent cadres, is 1,415. obviated? 1725 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1726
Sardar Majitliia: No. The necessity of three stages. The early two stages arose to militarise tliem because, —gravity and magnetic surveys— when tihese civillians are posted to have been completed. The Iftird stage units which are on an active war —seismic work—will be taken up role, difficulties arose regarding during the next season. After that, administration, discipline and all it will have to be further followed up that. Therefore, it was fo*’nd neces by test boring and drilling investig sary to militarise them. Besides, the ations. It is only after all these that hon. Member will see that we are the Geological Survey of India can saving about Rs. 800 by this step. say whether there are Lnv definite Shri V. P. Nayar; One more quest possibilities of oil being found or not. ion, Sir. Shri Dabhi: What led Government Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I am to select these States for the survey? going to the next question. Shri K. D. Malaviya: Experts ex amined natural and geological for G ravity a n d M agnetic S urveys neaji mation of rqcks. and indicate possi Cam bay bilities of finding oil underneath. - n m . Shri Dabhi: Will the Minister of Natural Resources and Scientific N ational Centfk for F u n d a m en tal Research be pleased to refer to the E ducation reply to Starred Question No. 1799 *1403. Shri S. N. Das: Will the asked on the 4th May, 1953 and state: Minister of Education be pleased to state: (a) the progress that has been made so far in the matter of Gravity and (a) whether the proposal to set up Magnetic Surveys which are being a National Centre for Fundamental carried on by the Geological Survey Education has been finalised; of India near Cambay (District Kaira), with the object of finding out (b) if so, the present plan and pro structures where possibilities of oil gramme of work; and exist; and (c) the amount of money that has been set apart for the purpose? (b) the approximate time when the final result of the surveys is likely to Hie Parliamentary Secretary to the be obtained? ‘ Minister of EdiioaUon (Dr. M M. Daflt): (a) to (c). A statement is laid The Deputy Minister of Natural on the Table of the Sabha. [Sfee Resources and Scientific Research Appendix VIII, annexure No. 69.] Dr. M. M. Das; The present scheme Shri Velayudhan: May I know is only to establish one centre in the whether large quantities of synthetic Capital—I mean Delhi-—and there rice are produced from tapioca and fore, estimates have been prepared whether machine purchased by the for this one centre in Delhi alone. Government for the production of synthetic rice and brought into Sliri S. N. Das: What is the capacity Travancore-Cochin or Mysore is in of this centre to train soecialists on working order? Fundamental Education? Shri K. D. Malayiya: So far as I Dr. M. M. Das: I would require know, there is no machine which is notice, Sir. producing yet this type of rice either in Mysore or in Travancore-Cochin. SYNTHtTic Rice C entral F inqer P rin t B ureau *1404. Shri K. P, Slnha: Will the Minister of Natural Resources and '*'1405. Shri Krishnacfaarya Joshi: Scientific Research be pleased to Will the Minister of Home Affairs state: be pleased to refer to the reply to Starred Question No. 1912 asked on (a) whether attempts have been the 20th April, 1954 and state: made at large scale production of synthetic rice; and (a) whether Government have since , implemented the decision to establish (b) if so, the quantity produced till a Central Finger Print Bureau; and June, 1954? The Deputy Minister of Natural (b) if so, what are the main functions of the Bureau? Resources and Scientific Research (Shri K. D. Malayiya): ^a) ?nd (b). The Deputy Minister of Home So far only experimental samples Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) Not yet. have been prepared and it is now Certain details are still being worked proposed to produce synthetic rice on out. a sma:ll scale, i.e., about one ton per day, on a pilot plant which is expect (b) The main functions of the ed to be set up by the end of this Central Finger Print Bureau will be year. to keep records of the finger prints of criminals and habitual offenders, Shrl K. P. Sinha: What about the with a view to help in the identificat cost of production per ton? ion of criminals and to undertake comparison of finger prints for the Sliri K. D. Malaviya: That cannot purpose of police investigations. The be said just now. The total cost of Central Finger Print Bureau will the plant with accessories comes to also maintain contact with foreign about Rs. 1,47,000. institutions of the same type. Shri Thimmaiata: May I know the Shri Krishnacbarya Xosbi: May I necessity for the production of this know where this Bureau will be synthetic rice? * established? Shri K. D. MaUviya: I have an Shri Datar: It is likely to be swered this question several times established at Kamptee near Nagpur 1729 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1730 Shri KiisliiiAcharya Joshi: May I co-operatives and the Government know who will bear the expenditure? should! encourage them to form these co-operatives. The second is for Sbri Datar: This is a matter of dis benefication of low-grade minerals by cussion between the Centre and the starting a chain of customs mills in State Governnients. suitable areas? Shri Bhagwat Xha Assd: Do Gov Rationalisation of M ineral Tr o d u c is ernment propose to set up customs «1407. Shri Nagestawar^ Prasad mills on the pattern of America so Sinha: Will the Minister of Natural that the small mine owners could Resonrces and Scientific Research be have the advantage? pleased to state: Shri K. D. Malaviya: That is the (a) whether it is a fact that the proposal. Mineral Advisory Board has been in vited to make suggestions for rationalisation of mineral products in India; (b) if so, whether the Board has made any suggestion; and (^) ^ (c) whether the Board has also ^ ^ 5T?T ^ 3ft? been asked to suggest amendments to ^ 5T?T ^ the Mineral Laws and Rules? The Deputy Minister of Natural .jResources and Scientific Research (Shri K. D. Malaviya): (a) to (c). ^ ^ anr?riW ^ w A statement giving the recommend- ^ f ? Btions made by the Mineral Advisory Board at their meeting held on the The Deputy Minister of Home 3rd June, 1954, is laid on the Table Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) 428 petit of the House. [See Appendix VIII, ions for mercy or for the grant of annexure No. 70.] pardon were received from or on behalf of convicts under sentence of Sbri Nageshwar Prasad Sinha: May death during the period from 1st I have an idea of the scheme of January, 1953, to 15th September, working of mines after rationalisat 1954. ion? I wish to know whether power will be concentrated in the hands of (b) Nil. the Centre, or the State Governments will have exclusive x>ower over the Shri Jangde: May I know whether working of these mines? the Governments have got exclusive power for granting pardons or are they consulted; or the Home Ministry Shri E. D. Malaviya: The State Gov grants pardons without consulting ernments are substantially given the anybody? right to work the mines. If I have correctly understood the hon. Member, The Minister of Home Affairs and be perhaps wants to know what States (Dr. Katja): The procedure is would happen after rationalisation. that the petition is addressed to the There are only two schemes which President and that is the usual are under examination. One is that course. The President acts on «mall mine owners who do not have advice and the advice is tendered to adequate finances might form their him by the Home Minister. 1732 1731 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers Shri Jangde: What are the main Castes and Scheduled Tribes in each considerations for the grant of pardon area. The State of Manipur comprises to the convicts who appeal for mercy? an area of 8,638 square miles oirt of which 8,000 square miles or 8/9th of Mr. Sjpeaker: Order, order. 1 do the area are hill tracts populated by not think I can allow that question. Scheduled Tribes. For a variety of Shri Velayudliaii: May 1 know whe reasons, of which language is one, ther there is any proposal with the holders of almost all the posts in the Government to abolish capital offices located in the hill area punishment? naturally tend to be members of the tribes inhabiting that area. Out of Dr. Katju: Not that I know of. 1,612 Class III posts under the Mani Shri Amjad AU: In view of the fact pur Administration, 382 (or 23*6 per that Dr. Katju had >een writing some cent) are at present held by members articles about the abolition of capital of the Scheduled Tribes. In view of sentence, how does he look into this the necessity for knowing the local question now? language, this percentage is not like ly to be affected in the near future. Mr. Speaker: I think he can make On the other hand, with the progress that probe into his private articles of education among the Scheduled elsewhere. I will go to the next Tribes, it is likely that they will be question. able to obtain more and more posts in offices located in the Manipur Valley also. The Manipur Adminis Shri Rishang Kcishing: Q. No. 1412, tration i-s of the view that it is not de Sir. sirable to accentuate the division be The Minister of Home Affairs and tween the Hill and valley peoples of the Manipur State by specific re States (Dr. KatJu): It is rather a long servation of posts. answer. Shall I place it on the Table of the House, o r ...... Mr. Speaker: I should like to Mr. Speaker: 1 think he has to read suggest that in cases where the answers are so long as that, the hon* it. Minister might say that he lays the Reservation of P osts for S cheduled statement on the Table of the House T ribes in M anipur so that the hon. Member who is tabl ing the question may have an oppor '^1412. Shri Rishang Keishing: Will tunity of reading it and then putting the Minister of States be pleased to tne supplementary questions. state: Dr. Katju: We shall adopt it in (a) whether it has been decided re future. I gave sufficient warning be cently to dt) away with the reservation fore reading that long answer, Sir. of posts in the State Service of Mani pur for Scheduled Tribes; and Shri Rishanff Keishing: The hon. Minister has just said that reservat (b) if so, the reasons therefor? ion of posts for Class I and II is five The Minister of Home Affairs and per cent. May I enquire why the States (Dr. KatJu): (a) and (b). The reservation is not fixed on population existing reservation of Class I and basis in view of the fact that 37 per Class II posts for Scheduled Tribes is cent, of the population in Manipur 5 per cent. The question relates to consists of hill tribes? Manipur, As regards Class III and Dr. Katjn: But the number of re Class IV services, it was decided that servations cannot go strictly on a the percentage of posts to be reserved population bas^s. I am not quite sure for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled whether thirty-seven per cent are l^lbes should be fixed takin/? into hill tribes. I take that figure from account the population of Scheduled m y hon. friend as corrects for li# 1733 Oral Aitswers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1734 knows it much better than 1 do. But Shri K. D. Malaviya: Government 1 should like to give this assurance do not depend on quacks for any to him and to all the people of Mani purpose. pur that there can be nobody who can be nrore anxious than myself and the M in in g L eases Manipur Administration to give the largest amount of employment to *1414. Dr. Ram Subhaff Singh: Will tribal people not only in the tribal the Minister of Natural Resources and areas, but also in the Manipur Valley. Scientific Research be pleased to state: I shall look into this matter most carefuly and see that nothing which (a) whether it is a fact that the may be called unfair is done to the Government of Bihar have requested tribal people. The m atter is under the Central Ck>vernment to frame consideration. rules for the reduction of the period and areas of leases of mining land in Shri Rlshang KeishJng: Are Gov that State; and ernment aware that all the hill tribes of Manipur are against the decision (b) if so, the steps taken or pro of the Advisory Council to do away posed to be taken by Government in with the reservation, and that the hill this regard? people have requested the Govern ment of India to render necessary The Deputy Minister of Natural advice to the State Government to Resources and Scientific Research defer their decision? (Shri K. D. Malaviya): (a) and (b). No. not in a general way, but such Dr. Katju: I am not aware of that, suggestions have been made by Bihar but I take that from my hon. friend. Government with regard to mang anese and iron ore mines. D iv is io n s o r t h e G k o l o g ic a i . S l r v t v Dr. Ram Subha«^ Singh: The hon. *1413. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will D e p u ty Minister has stated, “not in the Minister of Natural RescNirces and a general way”. May I know the Scientific Research be pleased to state: nature of the leases in respect of (a) the particular achievement of which the Government of Bihar have the Engineering Geology and Ground approached the Government of India Water Division of the Geological to reduce their period and area? Sui^ey since its formation; and Shri K. D. Malaviya: According to (b) whether there are any strict rules, the mining lease can be foreigners employed in this Division? granted for any area subject to a maximum of ten square miles. Per The Deputy Minister of Natural haps, the Bihar Government want to Resources and Scientific Research reduce this area. Similarly, for the (Shri K. D. Malaviya); (a) A state period also, they want some reduct ment giving the required information ion,—speaking subject to correction— is laid on the Table of the House. from thirty years to twenty years. [See Appendix VIII, annexure No. But as all these questions relate to 71.J the entire country, the Government of India are still giving their con (b) No, Sir. sideration to such proposals, and have not accepted the proposal of Shri H. N. Mttkerjce: I find from the Bihar. statement that ground water investi gation is proceeding on a more or less Dr. Ram Subhag Biagh: May 1 scientific basis. Could we take it know the irregularities, which have from Government that Government been committed in leasing out thesf have discarded dependence on quacks mines, and because of which the Gov and wat«r diviners lor this purpose? ernment of Bihar have approached Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1736 1735 the Government of India to reduce of experts from that company visited their period and area? India, toured several engineering establishments in this country, and Shri K. D. MalaTlya: I could not then submitted a report which is follow the question. under Government’s consideration. iShrlmati Tarkeshwari SAnha: May Mr. Speaker: He wants to know I know whether any estimate of the the reasons which the Bihar Govern total cost has been worked out, and ment had for the purpose of making if so, what is that estimated cost? these proposals of reduction in the period and the area. Shri Satifdi Chandra: No firm esti* mate has been worked out so far. Shrl K. D. Malavlya: I cannot ex actly enumerate the reasons which Shrimati Tailcediwari SInha: May have led the BHiar Government to I know whether the expert team that make these proposals. But as all these visited this country has selected some Questions cover the entire country, suitable sites for the establishment we are giving our due consideration of this industry? to all of them, and we will see whe Shri Sattsh Chaadrac Yes, if this ther these proposals can be accepted factory is set up in the near future in a modified way or not. on the recommendation of Messrs. Dr. Earn Subhag Singh:What are Rolls Royce, it may be set up along the special difficulties which the Bihar side the Hindustan Aircraft Limited, Government are experiencing in re Bangalore. gard* to these leases, on account of Shri G. P. Sinha: May I know which they have appointed the Gov whether other foreign companies have ernment of India?. been approached by this country for technical aid to start aeroplane Shri K. D. Malayiya: I do not know manufacturing concerns or factories? fully about them. They have got their own problems there. Perhaps, Shri Satish Chandra: Preliminary too big areas have been allotted by negotiations were carried on with out-going Zamindars of any other. several companies, but at the moment, the matter is being pursued only Jet A ero -E n g in e F actory with one company. There is no finality about it so far. *1416. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: Will the Minister of Defence be pleas Mr. Speaker: Next question. ed to state the extent to which pro posals for the establishment of a Jet Siiri G. P. Sinha: Was there any Aero-Engine factory in India have offer b y .. progressed? Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Next question. The Deputy Minister of Defence (Shri Satish Chandra): The proposal L evy of I ncom e -tax (C owpee P lanta is yet in an exploratory stage. t io n s ) Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: May ♦1417. Shri N. M. L in ^ m : Will the I know whether Rolls Royce Ltd. Minister of Finance be pleased to have submitted any preliminary pro state: ject report to Government, and if so, (a) whether there is any proposal whether that report has been pre for levying income-tax on the incomes pared in consultation with Govern accruing from coflfee plantations; and ment? (b) if so, the grounds on which Shri Satish Ohandra: There are such a levy is contemplated? some negotiations £oing on with The Deputy Minister of Finance Messrs. Rolls Royce, Limited. A team (Sktt M. C. Shuh): (a) and (b). There 1737 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1738 is no new proposal. However, as they can have it adjudged by the the Income-tax Act stands, a certain court. part of the profits from the pro Shri N. Somana: So far, it has not duction of coffee can, in certain cir b^n taxed all these years... cumstances, he liable to income-tax. Action has been taken to make the Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Next necessary assessments in such cases. question. Shri N. M. Lini^am: In view of V ampires judicial pronouncements both by a *1419. Sliri GIdwani: WiU tihe High Court and the Privy Council Minister of Defence be pleased to that coffee-curing is not in the nature state: of a manufacturing process, may I know the immediate provocation for (a) whether the attention of Gov Government to contemplate this new ernment has been drawn to a news impost on an already heavily-taxed item to the effect that 100 Vampires industry? of Indian Air Force have had to be grounded for want of spare parts Shri M. €. Shah: There is no ques and that the grounded machines were tion of a new imposition of income- being stripped to provide spare parts tax. The matter was considered by for the few that are still in commis the Central Board of Revenue, whe sion at Palam station, Delhi; and ther a certain portion of business pro fits can be taxed or not, and they (b) if so, what are the facts there came to the conclusion that a certain of? part can be taxed. The matter is now The Deputy Minister of Defence before the Taxation Enquiry Com- (Shri Satish Chandra): (a) and (b). mi-ssion, and we are awaiting the re Government have seen the article in commendations of the Taxation En the ‘Current’ of Bombay, dated the 4th quiry Commission on that point. September, 1954. There is no truth in the report published therein. Shri N. M, Lingam: May I know whether Government are aware that But for a few of these aircrafts coffee plantations are already subject which are, at the moment, awaiting to agricultural income-tax in States, the supply of spare parts, many of and the tax proposed will be the last which are manufactured at Hindus straw to break the camers back? tan Aircraft Limited, all are air worthy. Government are satisfied Mr. Speaker: Order, order. with the state of serviceability of the Shri N. Somana: May I know what Vampires and the supply position of portion of the coffee that is grown is their spare parts. to be taxed by the Centre? Shri Gidwani: It is said that some Shri M. C. Shah: In the case of pro of them have been manufactured here, fit, when there is business, certain while others have been purchased parts have been decided to be taken from elsewhere. May I know from as profit in the business, and that can where they have been purchased, and be taxed. As I have said earlier, this through which particular agency? matter has been referred to the Taxa tion Enquiry Commission, and we are Shri Satish Chandra: I have not said hoping to get their recommendations in the answer that complete aircrafts on this point very soon. are manufictured here. The fact is that the Vampire aircrafts are assem Mp. Speaker: Next question, bled at the Hindustan Aircraft Limit Shri N. Somana: One question. ed, Many of the spare parts of the air-frame are manufactured at the Mr. Speaker; He is arguing. It is Hindustan Aircraft Limited. m question of interpretation of the Indian Income-tax Act, really speak- Shri Gidwani: These 100 ’planes If they have any dissatisfaction. were purchased from outside. I want Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1740 1739 to know through which agency and Shri M. C. Shah: That question can from which country they were pur be addressed to the Minister of infor chased. mation and Broadcasting. Here the question is about the effect of the resolution on the foreign exchange Sbri Satish Chandra: I have no idea. position. I can give information about . We have more than 100 Vampires. I th a t do not know the previous history as to when and through whom they were Shri Sanganna: I want to know purchased. The hon. Member may whether that report dealt witJi the give notice of a separate question. financial aspect of this industry. Shri MeghJ&ad Salia: May I know Mr, Speaker: He wants to know if if the raw matertSls needed re it has dealt with the financial aspect. placement of these aeroplane parts and manufacture of aeroplanes, Shri M. C. Shah: They have dealt such as aluminium and steel, also with the financial aspect, but not are available in this country, with regard to this. and if they are not available, whether Government are considering any pro posal for having these materials in M in is t e r s ' D isckktionary F u n d this country? *1421. Shri K. C. Sodhia: Will the Minister of Education be pleased to Shri Satish Chandra: Government state: are actively considering the possibility of developing as early as possible the (a) the total amount of grants so aircraft industry in this country and far paid out of the Education Minis of manufacturing the raw materials ters’ Discretionary Fund tHis year; etc. to the extent possible within the and technological capacity of the country. (b) the details of the amount paid? ^ Export of I n d ia n F ilm s The Parliamentary Secretary to the ♦1420. Shrl Sanganna: Will the Minister of Education (Dr. M, M» Minister of Finance be pleased to Das): (a) Rs. 61,062. state to what extent if any, has the decision of the Film Federation of India to ban the export of Indian (b) A statement is laid on the Table films to Pakistan affected the amount of the House. [See Appendix VIII> of foreign exchange earned on annexure No. 72.] exports? Shri K. C. Sodhia: Are the purposes for which these grants are available The Deputy Minister of Finance specified? (Shri M, C. Shah): I pre.sume the hon. Member is referring to the resolutions Dr. M. M. Das: These grants from passed by the Indian Motions Picture this fund are given to such organisa Producers* Association, Bombay, on tions and institutions which are doing the 26th August, 1954. It is too early experimental and pioneering work in to say what, if any. effect this resolu the field of education and which are tion will have on our foreign exchange otherwise not eligible for regular earnings. grants for some teclinical reasons. Shri Sanganna: May I know whe Shri K. C. Sodhia: A sum of ther any of the recommendations made Rs. 10,000 is said to have been paid by the Film Inquiry Committee ap to Shri Mahamahopadhaya Shri pointed by the Government of India Haridas Siddhanta Bagish, Calcutta^ \inder the chairmanship of Shri S. K. For what purpose has this grant bem Patil^ has dealt with this question? giv#n? 1741 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1742 Dr. M. M. Das: This amount has been given to Shri Mahamahopa-^ dhaya Shri Haridas Siddhanta f i r 4 anr Bagish, Calcutta, as grant*in-aid to ^ ^ ^ this scholar for publication of an an ^ ^ ?niT ^ ^ iW q if st WT notated edition of Mahabharata. The book will contain original slokas of Vyasa, the original commentary of Nilakanta, a new and exhaustive com ^0 mw^k : vfhrH mentary in Sanskrit, and Bengali translation by the author. aift frnspf '{18'; 4 ^ ^ ? I Shri K. C. Sodhia: What is the maximum amount that can be had out of this grant? ^ 3 n ^ f«5 anr^ ^ W5^ VTTW ^ ? yvhft ( I n d ia n an d N epalese C urrency Shri M. C. Shah: To the first part of the question, the answer is in the *1424, Shti L. N. Mlshra; Will the affirmative. An officer was sent. But Minister of Finance be pleased to the action is to be taken by the Nepal State: Government. (a) whether it is a fact that, of late, there has been a steep rise in Shri L. N. Mishra: May I know whe the value of Indian Currency in re ther it is a fact that the representa lation to the Nepalese Currency; tive of the Reserve Bank of India had suggested that Nepal should cut down (b) if so, the reason therefor; the imports of luxury goods from (c) the present rate of exchange; foreign countries to stabilise the rate (d) whether there is any proposal of exchange? to maintain stabUity in the exchange Mr. Speaker: He has said that it is rate of the two countries; and a matter for the Nepal Government, (e) if so, the nature of the pro It is not for the Centre. posal? Shri B harat Jha Azai& rose— The Deputy Minister of Finance I.A.S. Officer as the Director of Mili ^ ^ ^ fiRi yir (IS «R tary Land and Cantonment Services? ^ 3IT , Mr. Speaker: Order, order. (n) rf, ^ ^ 4 W h r G rant to the P unjab U niversity •1426. LaU Achint Bam: Will the Minister of Education be pleased to refer to the reply to Starred Question No. 2508 asked on the 14th May, (q-) ’irf? ff, ^ ^ 1954 and state: ^ n f artV ^ 1. Sahi^anpur. 2. Badaun. 3. Shahjahanpur. 4. Gazipur. 5. Partapgarh. 6. Tehri Garhwal. 1747 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 19S4 Oral Answers 1748 Shri M. C. Shah: I said there was delay. ^ ^ amft t f*p W ’n’ ^ ^ ^ an^o tro ij^o anrtnf Shri Matthen: Does the GDvemment realise that this is tantamount to ^ nf5R^ M qi^ tn freezing of credit, especially rural f»np!r V? f^'PT *T*iT aift credit, on account of waiting? for these ^ fsriW an^ W ^“ ? loan scrips? Shri M. C. Shah: The Government Shrl Datar: Sir, it is likely that some are conscious of the fact, and, there cases must have occurred. But, ulti fore, they have issued instructions mately. they have to make a reference very recently that without waiting for to the Government with a view to the verification, as required in the follow the rules. Rules have been rules, they should issue these loan laid down and they make a reference scrips. to the Government of India in these cases. Shri Matthen: Will the Reserve Bank set up an enquiry committee re garding this matter? ’ N ational P lan L oans Shri M. C. Shah: I think it is not '^1429. Shri Matthen: Will the now necessary because, applications Minister of Finance be pleased to have been disposed of very quickly. state: I wili just give the figures. It will (a) whether it is a fact, that be seen that out of the 22,549 appli the Public Debt Office has been un cations in Bombay, the balance is only duly delaying the issue of bonds 4,475; in Calcutta out of 3,226 appli against applications for the National cations, only 834 are pending and they must be disposed of before the middle Plan Loan; and of October; in Delhi out of 10,689 only (b) if so, the action Government 2,206 are pending and in Madras, out propose to take in the matter? of 14,855 the number pending was The Deputy Minister of Finance 12,585 and most of these might have (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) and (b). There been disposed of under the orders. has been some delay at a few places, M.E.S. S taff particularly at Madras. This is due mainly to the practice of issuing loan *1430. Shrimati Sueheta Kripalani: scrips only after the credits of sub Will the Minister of Defence be scriptions, as reported by the Treasury pleased to state; Officers, have been verified by the (a) whether any scale of pay and Accountants General. In Madras, an allowances has been fixed for the additional difficulty was that, for want Assistants-in-Charge in post-war cadre of space, the staff of the Public Debt of the M.E.S.; Office could not be augmented earlier to deal with the large number of ap (b) if not, the reasons therefor; plications, Public Debt Officers have (c) whether any representations recently been authorised to issue loan have been received in this behalf; and scrips without waiting for the formal verification of credits. The Public (d) if so. what action Government Debt Office in Madras has also been propose to take in the matter? moved into a large premises recently. It is expected that all outstanding ap The Deputy Minister of Defence plications will be dealt with within a (Shrl Satlsh Chandra): (a) No regu very short period. lar scale of pay as such has been sanctioned, for the posts of Assistant- Shri Matthen: Is it true that th e r e in-Charge in the Military Engineering have been delays of three and four Service. Under the existing orders, months? clerks who are appointed to hold 17 49 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1750 charge of feven or more clerks are what kind of assistance is given; whe designated as Assistants-in-Charge and ther it is loan or help? are allowed a charge allowance of Rs. 20/- p.m. in addition to the pay ad Dr. M. ML Das: I have answered missible to them as Upper Division this particular question more than Clerks. once in this session. It is a loan given to the students who are studying or (b) As a charge allowance is ad want to study in foreign countries. missible for the supervisory duties, it Shri Krishnacharya Joshi: May 1 was not considered necessary to pre know how many students are studying scribe a separate scale of pay. in the U.K. and how many in (c) and (d). Representations were America? made by the administrative authori ties about two years ago but it was not Mr. Speaker: Does it refer to loan considered necessary to modify the or grant? existing orders. However, the posi Shri Krlsluiacharya Joshi: I wanted tion is being reviewed. to know the number of students study Shrimati Sucheta Krlpalani: Is it ing in the U.K. and the United States. a fact. Sir, that these Assistants have Dr. M. M. Das: I have not got the to perform supervisory duties in figures, Sir. volving considerable responsibility and others performing similar supervisory Sardar A. S. Saigal: May I know duties are paid much more in the how many applications were there and same service? how many were rejected? Shri Satish Chandra: Sir, it is true Dr. M. M. Das: Sir, the number of that supervisory duties are also per the total applications is not with me formed by Superintendents or Head- at present. But, as regards the second Clerks etc. But, then the number of part of the question, I may say that people working under them is very the Government of India have not large. In other establishments a clerk withheld the application of any stu is made Assistant-in-charge over six dent wishing to go to a foreign coun or seven clerks only and paid some try except in the case of those apply allowance. ing for admission to the Air Services Training Ltd., Hamble, U.K. In this F acilities for S tudies abroad case, the applicants were advised to *1431. ShFi Krishnacharya Joshi: get their training in India and their Will the Minister of Education be applications were not forwarded. This pleased to state: was done under the advice of the (a) the facilities provided to pri Ministry of Defence and the Ministry vate students who go abroad for study, of Communications. by the Indian Missions in foreign countries; and S am ple S urvey of U nemployment (b) what kind of help is given by *1432. Shri S. N. Das: Will the the Government of India for the wel Minister of Finance be pleased to fare of such students? state: The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Education (Dr. M. M. (a) wjhether the fllled-in-schedules Das): (a) and‘ (b). A statement giving prepared in the Sample Survey of the information is laid on the Table Unemployment undertaken at differ of the House [See Appendix VIII, an- ent places in India have been ana nexure No. 73]. lysed and results of the survey completed; Shri KrlShnacharyya Joalli: From the statement it appears that some finan (b) if so. the important points cial assistance is given. May I know discovered in the survey; and 1751 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1752 (c) whether Government have employment and unemployment in the scrutinised the results and taken country. them into consideration for future Shri M. C. Shah: For the time being,, development work? the Planning Commission has decided to have sample survey in 23 urban The Deputy Minister of Finance areas. At the same time they have (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) The schedules also decided an enquiry into un ih respect of the survey of persons in employment in Travancore-Cochin the live register of the Delhi Em State. Then, they have also decided ployment Exchange have been analys to have extensive sample surveys in ed and a report of this survey has Calcutta and after all these reports been analysed and a report of this are received, the Government will survey has been prepared. The consider the suggestion made by the schedules in respect of other un hon. Member. employment surveys are still being analysed, and, in some cases, the re M echanisation of M ines ports are being drafted. <^1433. Shri Nageshwar Prasad (b) The main conclusions arrived at Sinha: Will the Minister of Natural on the basis of the survey of persons Resources and Scientific Research be in the live register of the Delhi Em pleased to state: ployment Exchange are given Chapter III of the National Sample (a) whether any Expert Committee Survey Report No. 4 issued by the was appointed to go into the question Department of .Economic Affairs, of ‘Mechanisation of Mines’ and for Ministry of Finance. Copies of this starting a mechanisation centre for Report have already been placed in the coal industry in India; the Library of the House. The Re ports in respect of other unemploy (b) if so, when; ment surveys have not yet been fina lised. (c) whether it has submitted its report; and (c) After the results of all the sur veys have been tabulated and reports (d) if so, wihat are its recommenda received by Government, the matter tions relating to coal mines? will be considered. The Deputy Minister of Natural Shri S. N. Das: May I know how Resources and Scientific Research long more the Government will ^ take (Shri K.D.Malaviya): (a) to (d). Yes. to finalise all these results? S‘ir. The Committee was constituted in Shri M. C. Shah: We are just trying February, 1953, but could not meet to expedite it. till 6th September, 1954, because twa of the experts of the Committee, one Shri S. N. Das: May I know whe of whom, Mr. D. N. Prasad, the con ther, after all these surveys are ana vener. were abroad. Dr. Prasad re lysed, the Government will lay a copy turned to India in February, 1954, of a concise statement ior the use of and a meeting of the Committee was Members of the House? fixed for June, 1954. Unfortunately* Shri M. C. Shah: That will be cer Dr. Prasad fell ill and the meeting^ tainly considered by the Government. had therefore to be postponed to 6th» September. ft54. The report of the Shri K. P. Tripathi: Since the ques Committee is awaited. tion of employment and unemploy ment is a fluctuating thing in the life Shri Nanadas: May I know whether of the nation, has the Government the members of the Committee have any plan to make this permanent so been given an opportunity to visit that the sample survey may give us foreign countries where this kind of: every year the position in regard to mechanisation is in practice? 17 53 Oral Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Oral Answers 1754 Shri K. D. Malavlya: All the Mem that will be a suitable opportunitj bers were not given the opportunity considering this matter. My hon, of visiting abroad. Dr. Prasad took friend knows very well the position advantage of one of his foreign visits occupied by these two frontier States. to visit the mechanisation centres in Now that We have waited for U.K. and especially the Sheffield cen fiv e years, I think that we might tre of machanisation of coal mining. wait for another six or pine months While the meeting was going to take because their report will be in hand place, unfortunately he fell ill and, by the 30th June next year and than therefore, the Committee had to be we can see the entire picture and postponed to learn from his experien take a decision. ces. O rdnance O fficers (C ivilians ) Shri Rairhavaiah: May I know w hether this mechanisation is con* •1435. Dr. Ram Su^haf WiU fined only to coal mines or whether the Minister of 'Defence lie^pleaMd other mines like mica are included? to state: Sluri K. D. Malavlya: This question (a) the total number of Ordnance is related to mechanisation of coal Officers (Civilians) in the Army mines only. Ofdnance Corps at the time of ttie appointmetit of the Ariftied Forces L bgislativb A ssem blies for M a n ip u r AND T ripura Nationalisation Cohimittee; *1434. Shri Rishang K ei^ing: Will (b) whether the Arihed Forces the Minister of States be pleased to Nationalisation Committee examined state the action Government propose the cases of Ordnance Oflftcert to take on the demand of the people (Civilians); of Manipur and Tripura for setting up Legislative Assemblies in their (c) if so, the recommendations of respective States? that Committee; and The Minister of Home Affairs and (d) how far they have been im States (Dr. Katju): The future of plemented? these important frontier States is tinder consideration of the States Re The DeiMity Minister of Defence organisation Commission and pend (ShH Satish Chaiidl«): (a) Abdut ing their report Government do not propose to take any action in the matter. (b) and (c). The cadre of Ordnance Shri Rishang Keish^g: The people Officers (Civilians) was manned by of Manipur and Tripura have been Indians and. as such, the Committee demanding from the Central Govern did not have to go throu^ their ment the setting up of Legislative cases. The Committee, however, Assemblies in their respective States commended that when the peace since 1949. May I therefore know strength of the I.A.O.C. (now A.O.C.) what this demand of the people of and the proportion of that strength these two States has to do with the to be filled by civilian personnel are ^ rex>ort of the States Reorganisation fixed, the selection of Ordnance Offi Commission? cers (Civilians) as are to be perma Dr. Katju: Since 1940, five years nently retained should be made through have elapsed, and this question pro the Federal (now Union) Public Ser bably must have been discussed when vice Commission, and a senior officer the Constitution was passed. The of the A.O.C. should be associated with States Reorganisation Commission has the Commission for this purpose. Con been charged with the duty of firmations of Ordnance Officers (Civi considering the whole question of lian) are, accordingly bein^ made on reorganisation of States, itid I think the basis of merit as adjusted by a 425 L.S.D. Oral Answers ^28 SEPTEMBER 1W4 Written Answers I75« ^7 55 Departmental Promotion Committee to the requirements of peace-time consisting of:— strength of the Army. Some of them are to be replaced by military officers. A member of the Union Public So. there is a fourth category which Service Commission.—Chairman. consists of persons unfit for perma nent retention in military service. A Joint Secretary in the Ministry Some of them are being gradually of Defence— Member. wasted out. Director of Ordnance Services.— Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: What is Member. the peace-time strength of these officers which the Government ha« (d) 87 Ordnance Officers (Civilians) laid down? May I know whether all have so far been confirmed. the officers who are surplus will be retrenched during this year? Dr. Biim Subhat: Sin^ht The Deputy Minister said that the cases of these Shri Satiah Chandra: I dp not think officers are considered on merits. there is going to be any retrenchment May I know how many categories during the current year. There are have been formed for considering at present about 360 officers, both their cases and whether those cate departmental as well as direct re gories conform to the existing Army cruits. The direct recruits and de Rules which have been framed lor partmental recruits are in the pro the purx>ose of retention and retrench portion of 2:1. Out of these only 110 ment? officers are ultimately to be retained. Many of them are being found al Shrl Satish Chandra: I do not ternative employment. Only re know what the hon. Member wants cently, the Labour Ministry has because there are two categories of agreed to appoint 22 of these officers Army Ordnance Officers (Civilian). as civilian labour officers in defence There are direct recruits to the cadre installations. and then there are persons who have been promoted from a lower cadre. I presume he is referring to direct re- cmits. There are four categories for WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS assessing merit of directly recruited officers—outstanding,, above average, CiviUAN D efence Personnel average and below average. A De partmental Promotion Committee ♦lAftA / Gopalam \ Shri Pnnnoose: presided over by a member of the Union Public Service Commission Will the Mipister of Defence be decides the merit and confirms the pleased to state: officers. (a) whether Government have come Dr. Ram Subbag Singh: May I to any decision regarding the percent know whether the Home Ministry age of permanent cadre among rule also prescribes these lour cate industrial cadres of Civilian Defence gories for civil Ordnance Officers and personnel based on the recommenda whether the cases of these officers tions of the Kalyanvala Committee will be referred to the Union Public Report; Service Commission on the basis of the Home Ministry instructions? (b) if so, whether a copy thereof will be laid on the Table of the House; Shrl Satisih Chandra: Normally, as and far as I think, according to the Home (c) by what time the decision is Ministry’s regulations, there are three likely to be implemented? categories A, B and C. In this case, the number of these officers is to be The Deputy Minister of Defence considerably reduced, to bring it down (Sliri SatUOi Chandra): (a) The 1757 Written Answers 28 S]R>11!MBER 1964 Written Answers 1758 m atter is still under consideration The Deputy MWster of Flnaaeo but the present intention is that 40 (Shri M. C. Shah): The total amount per cent, of the industrial posts in so far paid is Rs. 2,95,90,000. Army Establishments as on 1st September, 1953, would be declared 5>UBSTITUTE FOR PbTROL permanent. The same percentage *1409. Shri M. R. Krishna: Will the ^ would apply to all Ordnance Factor Minister of Natural Resources and ies which did not exist before the Scientific Research be pleased to state: war. For Naval and Air Force in stallations, however, and for (a) whether any experiments hav# Ordnance Factories which existed been made to produce a substitute for before the war, the percentage would petrol for the use of cars and aircrafts be 50. in India; and These percentages are, however, of (b) whether it is a fact that tentative character and subject to al pulverised Magnesium is now found to teration as a result of detailed exami be a better fuel for cars and aircrafts nation of the establishments. in the United States? (b) Does not arise. The Minister of Education and Natural Resources and Scientific (c) Government orders are likely search (Maolana Azad): (a) No, ^ r. to be issued shortly. However, a proposal for setting up a E xternal A ccounts synthetic petrol plant is under con sideration. ♦1406. Shri S. C. Singhal: Will the Minister of Finance be pleased to (b) It is understood that experi . state: ments have been conducted in the United States which have shown that (a) whether there has been a pulverized magnesium is very effi favourable balance in the foreign cient in rockets and high altitude trade in the second quarter of this aircraft. It is not possible to com year; ment on the efficiency of pulverized (b) if so, to what extent; and magnesium as a fuel for automobiles (c) whether the import has increas but it is quite clear that the ex ed or decreased in this period as com plosion hazards would be very severe. pared to the previous period? i T obacco A sh The Deputy Minister of Finance (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) No, Sir. *1411. Shri S. V. L. Naraslmham: Will the Minister of Natural Resources (b) According to preliminary esti and Scientific Research be pleased to mates, there was a deficit on trade state: acqount of Rs. 35.7 crores during the second quarter of 1954. (a) whether any research has been made on utility of tobacco ash as (c) During the second quarter, insecticide or fungicide; imports amounted to Rs. 160 crores, ► showing an increase of Rs. 23.5 crores (b) the results of such research, if over the previous quarter. These any; and estimates are also preliminary. (c) the possibDities of manufacture G rants to S tate G overnm fnts of tobacco ash on a commercial scale? *1408. Shri M. S. Gumpadaswamy: The Minister of Education and Will the Minister of Flnsmce be pleas Natural Resources and Scientific Re ed to state the total amount of grants search (Maulana Azad): (a) to (c). paid to various State Governments No. research has been carried out on during 1964»55 to cover their revenue the utility of tobacco ash. As a r ^ suit of researches conducted at the 1759 WriUen Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1760 National Chemical Laboratory, a rela The IHputy Minister of Finance tively simple process has been de (Shri IVL C. Shah): (a) No. Sir, the veloped at that Laboratory which ren Government have not decided to for ders recovery of nicotine sulphate mulate all statistics in future with from tobacco wastes an economic 1946 as the base year. The question proposition. Nicotine sulphate is a of shifting the base of economic in powerful insecticide. The Council of dices from pre-war to post-war year Scientific and Industrial Research or years and of increasing the cover have decided to entrust the commer age and quality of the indices is under cial development of the process for examination. the South and West Zones, respective (b) The reasons for considering a ly, to two firms. change in the base periods of econo mic indices are: P remium I ncome (i) changes in the economy of •1415. Th. Jug9l Kishore Sinha: Will the country during the last the Minister of Finance be pleased to ten or fifteen years; and lU te: (ii) the need to determine more (a) whether it is a fact that a large precisely economic trends amount of premium income froiti fire after the commencement of and marine insurance business passes the First Five Year Plan. to foreign insurers; and T echnical E ducation in H tdhrabad (b) if so, the steps that Govern •1423. Shri p . G. Vaishnav: Will ment propose to take to stop the drain the Minister of Education be pleased of Indian insurance premium income to state: from India? (a) whether any team of Techni The Deputy Minister of Finance cal experts was sent to Hyderabad iShri M. C. Shah): (a) and (b). to examine the facilities at tihe Os- Though it is true that a considerable mania University Engineering College amount of premium income goes to and the Government Technical Col foreign insurers, the actual net out lege at Hyderabad; flow which may be characterised as drain is of a much smaller order, (b) if so, whether the said team since, against the premium given out, made any recommendations; and there are premiums received by way (c) the amount of financial aid of re-ifisurance from abroad and given by the Centre to that State for jforeign business of Indian insurers. the expansion of the Technical edu The matter is being examined by the cation? Executive Committee of the General Insurance Council and the remedial The Minister of Education and action to be taken can be considered Natural Resources and Scientific Re only after the results of their enquiry search (Maulana Azad): (a) Yes. A are known. Visiting Committee of experts was deputed by the Southern Regional S tatistics Committee of the All India Council for ♦1418. Shri Vishwanatha Reddy: Technical Education. Will the Minister of Finance be pleas ed to state: (b) The Visting Committee recom mended grants by the Central and the (a) whether it is a fact that Govern State Governments for development ment have decided to formulate all of facilities at two institutions. statistics in future with 1946 as the base year and not 1939; and (c) A sum of Rs. 60,000/- has been given as the first instalment of non (b) if so, the reaaooa therefor? recurring grant for the developm^t J 76I Writtm Answers 28 StiPTlfliteBiR 1®54 Written Afmoers 176a o f the Government Technical College, Thjft Minister of Home Alfairs anil Hyderabad. Stated (Dr. Sittjti): (a) The Scheme is being reconsidered. (b) and (c). The Chief Secretaries" *T^ ^ Conference did not take any new cision about the tenure system. ^ «pn : since the transfer of power Govern ment have endeavoured to re-intro («) rm v m l w iitn- srrafn ^ duce the tenure system which broke aRiffiT fyirt f f down during the^ war. This sy^<^ has, in fact, been progressively im (W) ^ ff, ^ ^ ^ fwfTTf plemented during the last few yetU*i. The Chief Secretaries’ Conference f , atft ‘merely i^eiterfeted the decision that dejfmtations from the State Govern (n) ^ ^ iriV Club at Imphal. As there is no Sir. A ways and means mdvanee of civilian club in the town certain Rs. 1J crores has been promised to officials of the administration to the Government of Orissa of which gether with certain prominent non- a sum of Rs. 50 lakhs has already offlclals of the town of Imphal are been sanctioned. Further releases trying to organise a club of officials out of this amount will be made as and non-officials to be called the and when requests are received from Manipur Club and with this object the State Government. in view, are collecting subscriptions from officials and non-officials. (c) A portion of this advance will be converted into a grant in due 2. There was, until recently, only course equal to half the expenditure one petrol pump in the town of incifrred by the State on measures of Imphal. It was far away from the gratuitous relief including infructuous Manipur State Transport. The ad expenditure on the provision of works ministration had decided some two instead of direct relief; the balance years ago to allot a piece of land will be treated as a loan. near the State Transport for a second petrol pump so that the vehicles S tatutory a n d N o n -S tatutory B o» irs would not have to go to long distance to fill up petrol. This site had been 792. Shri S. N. Das: Will the Minis allotted for the installation of a petrol ter of Education be pleased to refer pump to Messrs. Singh and Company, to the answer to unstarred question the agents of Burma Oil Company. No. 693 asked on the 16th December. It is understood that Messrs. Singh 1952 and state: and Company made a donation of Rs. 2,500 to the Manipur Club in (a) the names of statutory and non- July, 1954, after they got the agency statutory bodies of a permanent nature of the petrol pump in question. The constituted since December, 1952 under administration of Manipur has nothing the administrative control of the to do with the Manipur Club or the Ministry of Education giving the donation of Rs. 2,500. Nor dtoes it following information in each case:— appear that there was any deal that (i) date of constitution, this donation was to be made in re turn for the allotment of the site for (ii) the recurring and non-re the petrol pump. curring expenditure involved, (iii) provision for audit of their Rclief for D rouoht C o n d it io n s in O rissa accounts, and (iv) the method of submission of *1442. Shri Sanganna: Will the the report of their activities; Minister of Finance be pleased to and state: (b) the names of bodies of a perma (a) whether Government have pro nent nature that have been dissolved mised an amount of one and a half during this period? crore rupees to the Government of Orissa for relief work necessitated by The Minister of Education the drought conditions in that State; Natural Resources and ScientUie Re (b) if so, when this amount would search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (b). A statement is laid on the Table of be made available to the State Govern the House. [See Appendix VIII, ment; and annexure No. 74.] (c) whether this amount will be given as loan or grant? Ad-Hoc Committees 793. Shri S. N. Das: Will the Minis The Deputy Minister of Finance ter of Education be pleased to refer to (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) and (b). Yes. the answer to unstarred question WriUen Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answert 1768 * 767 N o.. 699, jEi$ke4 on the 16th December, is laid on the Table of the Lok 1952 and state; Sabha. [See Appendix VIII, annex ure No. 76.] (a;][ names of ad'-hoc com (b) No bodies of a permanent m itted :— nature have been dissolved during (i) that were appointed since this period. December, 1952 giving the date of appointment, Ad-Hoc COMMITTEfiS (ii) that have finished their work and have submitted their re 795. Shri S. N. Das: Will the Minis ports during the period giving ter of Defence be pleased to refer to the dates of submission of the answer to unstarred question their reports, and No. 753-1 asked on the 16th December, (iii) that are still functioning and 1952 and state: the time by which they are (a) the names of ad-hoc com expected to submit their re mittees:— ports; and (i) that were appointed since (b) the names of bodies of advisory December, 1952 giving the character that have been dissolved date of appointment, during this period? (ii) that have finished their work Mi^i^ster of £dacaiion w d and have submitted their Katural Resources and Scientific Re ports during the periiod giving search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (b). the dates of submission of A statement is laid on the Table of their reports, thfB House! [See Appendix VIII, annexure No. 75.] (iii) that are still functioning and the time by which they are S tatutory a n d N o n -S tatutory B odies expected to submit their re ports; and 794. Shri S. N. Das: Will the Minis ter ol Defence be pleased to refer to (b) the names of bodies of advisory the answer to unstarred question character that have been dissiolved No. 753-1 asked on the 16th Decem during this period? ber, 1952 and state: The Minister of Defence Organis (a) the names of statutory and non- ation (Shri Tyi^i); (a) A statement statutory bodies of permanent nature is laid on the Table of the Lok constituted since December, 1952 under Sabha. [See Appendix VIII, annex the administrative control of the ure No. 77.1 Ministry of Defence giving the foUow- m g information in each case:— (b) No bodies of an ad visor jr character have been dissolved during (i) date of constitution, this period. (ii) the recurring and non-re curring expenditure involved, (iii) provision for audit of their accounts, and Hv) the method of submission of the report of their activities; and (b) the names of b(idics of a perma nent nature that have been dissolved Vhfr ^ f , during this period? Tlie M inister of Defence Orfiranis- ation (Shri Tyagl): (a) A statement 1769 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1054 Written Amtoers I77o (n) 5t, ^ ^ w mror Scheme have been received upto tfae 31st August, 1954. Selections and payments are beini made expedil iously. (AT) ?rt^ ^ ^ 5rnr»ft ? S tip en d s fob S cheduled Castbs l%e Dep^y Minisier of Detaiee (ii) Rs. 3,2(5,700 as the share of (a) the number of Scheduled Caste Indian Army pers6nnel from the and S>sheduled Tribe students of State. Madhya Pradesh who did not get the second instalment of their stipends for (b) The amount at (I) above was the year 1953-54; and paid to the Uttar Pradesh Post War Reconstruction Fund Trust Committee (b) the reasons therefor? in X950. The amount at (ii) was pooled with the uridisbureed balances The Minister of Education and lying with the Central Government Natural Resources and Scientiflc fte- on behalf of Parts B and C States search (Maulana Azad): (a) Nine. and constituted into a Central Poit (b) (i) Unsatisfactory progress for War Resettlement Fund under the the first half of acsademic year 1953 Miuistry of Defence. The mone^ will 54; and utilised for the benefit of Indii^n Army personnel coming from Tehri- (ii) failure to pass or appear Id Oarhwal. the annual examination. (c) and (d). Do not arise. F ree E d u c a tio n in P ublic S chools SCH EDULFD C a STES SCHOLAKSHIPS 799. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will the (M a d h y a PnADtJ^i) Minister of Education be pleased to 797. Shri N. A. Borkar: WUl the state: lidinister of Educatton be pleaded to state: (a) whether the Government of India have fonjiulat^ any scheme for (a) the number of applications re free education in Public Schools for ceived by the Central Scholarships needy students; and Board for Post-Matric and Post Graduate Scholarships from the (b) if 60, the details of the scheme? Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe The Minister of Education and students of Madhya Pradesh for the Natural Resources and Scientific Re year 1954-55; search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (b). Attention of the hon. Member ia (b) whether it is a fact that these drawn to the Press Notes issued on stipends have not so far b (c) There has ;becn no delay 8(^0. Shri A. Gopalan: W ill the About 34,000 applications under the Minister uf 5'inance be oleased to state I77I Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers I V ^ the names of the industrial concerns Oil Wells set up in India (i) as joint enterprises 803. Shrt K. P. Sinha: Will the ot the Government ot India and Minister of Natural Resources and foreign capital and (ii) other partner^ Scientific Research be pleased to state: ship concerns involving Indians as well as foreign capital, since the 15th (a) the number of wells that have August, 1947? already been drilled in the Brahma The Deputy Minister of Finance putra Valley to produce oil; (Shri M. C. Shah): (i) (a) Indian (b) how many wells are proposed Telephone Industries Ltd., Bangalore. to be drilled this year; and (b) Hindustan Machine Tools Ltd., (c) the approximate cost in drilling, Bangalore. the first and the second well? (c) Hindustan Steel Ltd., Delhi. The Minister of Education and Na (d) M/S. Indian Explosives Ltd.. tural Resources and Scientific Calcutta. Research (Maulana Azad): (a) It is reported that in the Nahorkatiya area (ii) Government have no infor in the Brahmaputra Valley, three welb mation. have so far been drilled. (b) The Assam Oil Company hopes^ to complete two more wells M ore the end of this year. (c) The Government of Assam re port that separate figures regarding, 9T vn sf <00 jrf?r Jmr m ^ the cost of drilling individual wells atfvTP ^ ^ ^ are not available. A sum of approxi mately rupees one and a half crores fertpft was spent by the Assam Oil Company ^ I l f ? upto the end of June, 1954, on drilling wells and work incidental thereto. The Minister of EdocatioB and Na tural Resources and Sclentiflc T eaching of H in d i Research (Maulana Azad): If the re Shri S. K. Raxmi: ference is to Government of India 804. <1^1 Research Scholarships in Humanities, Shri D. C. Sharma: the hon. Member’s attention is drawn Will the Minister of Education be to answer to Starred Question No. 836 pleased to state: on the 10th March, 1954. (a) whether Government have S eizure of G old formulated any scheme under the Five 802. Dr. Ram Sabhac: Singh: Will Year Plan for giving assistance to the Minister of Finance be pleased to States for the teaching of Hindi; and state the total values of gold, diamonds, rubies and jewellery seized at air and (b) if so, the amount allotted to sea ports by Customs authorities since various States during 1953-54 and the beginning of the current financial 1954-55? year? The Minister of Education and Na The Deputy Minister of Finance tural Resources and Scientific Re (Slui A. C. Guha): The total value search (Maulana Azad): (a) Yes, Sir. of gold, precious stones including dia There is a scheme for promotion of monds, rubies, and jewellery seized Hindi, particularly in the non-Hindi at Air and Sea Ports by Customs speaking areas. authorities from 1st April, 1954, to (b) There has been no allotment of 15th July, 1954. is Rs. 18,55,165, funds State-wise under the Plan, but Rs. 1,03,303 and Rs. 1.74,0T3. res a lump-sum provision is made for all pectively. the State Governments for \he pur 17 73 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1^54 Written Answers 1774 p ose of giving them grants on the S m ug g led G old basis of the schemes submitted by them. No grants were given during 806. Sardar A. S. Saigal: WUl the the year 1953-54. During 1954-55 the Minister of Finance be pleased to state: following grants have been sanctioned (a) the quantity of gold confiscated so far;— from 1951 to the 30th June, 1954; (b) the arrangements Government S. No. Name of the State Amount sanctioned have made to sell this confiscated gold; and Rs. (c) whether there has been any de I. Assam • . • 13,992 crease in the smuggling of ^^Jld within 2. Bihar • • . 47>520 the last six months? 3. Bombay . • • 56,562 The Deputy Minister of Flnaaec 4. Coorg . . . ^ 2,244 (Shri A. C. Guha): (a) The quantity 5. Orissa . . . 17,049 of smuggled gold confiscated in 1951, 1952. 1953 and the first half of the 6. Saurashtra . . 2M 50 year 1954 was 65,118, 54,773, 19,98«, 7. Travancore-Cochin . 88,440 and 51,054 tolas, respectively. 8. West Bengal . . 14,600 (b) Confiscated gold is transferred to the Government of India mints at Total . 2,61,857 Bombay and Calcutta for custody. It is not proposed at present to sell the gold in the market. No decision re C ultural Relations garding the use to which the confis cated gold is to be put, has yet been 805. Ch. Raghubir Singh;Will the taken. Minister of ISducatlon be pleased to state: (c) This is a matter of opinion. Government believes that there has (a) whether it is a fact that the been some decrease in the smuggling Central Government have taken steps of gold. to establish cultural relations between India and other countries by sending abroad Indian dancers and musicians; Rukal B a n k in g E n q u ir y Committee (b) if so, to which countries these 807. Shri S. €. Samanta: Will the dancers and musicians were sent Minister of Finance be pleased to during 1953-54 and 1954-55; and state: (c) the approximate expenditure in (a) how many branches the curred on their tours during the said Imperial Bank of India has opened in period? Taluk or tehsil towns since 1953 and at what places; and The Minister of Education and Na< (b) whether a Warehousing De teral Resources and Scientific Re velopment Board has been established search (Maulana Aead): (a) Yes, Sir. as recommended by the Rural Bank Sending dancers and musicians is one ing Enquiry Committee? such step. The Deputy Minister of Finance (b) and (c). A statement is placed (Shri A. C. Guha): (a) Names of on the Table of the House. [See Ap places where the Imperial Bank of pendix VIII, annexure No. 78]. India has opened its branches since 1775 Written Answers 26 SEPTBlteiK 1954 Written Answers 1776 1st July, 1951, are given below with the date of ppenipf>-- Slate in which the branch Name of the t)ate of has been opened opening District treasury Sob-treasarey centre centre Andhra ...... Bapatia . . 18- 8-52 Assam . . . . Tczpur . * ' ■ .. 6-4-53 Bihar . . ' . . ,, Bettiah i-^7-53 Chaibassa 17-11-52 Purulia 12-1-54 Bombay . Amalner I-10-53 Baroda . . 29-3-54 ,, Bhusawal 5-11-52 Bijapiir . . 16-8-54 Dharwar . , 15-6-53 , . Dohad “ . 27-10-52 .. Gadag . 3-3-52 Kolhapur . . ,. 28 -4-52 ,. Pachcra . 25-5-53 Palanpur . . 15-6-54 Madhya Pradesh Achalpur . 4-5-53 Chanda . . . .. 6-4-53 Gondia . 2-3-53 ,, Harda 12-1-53 .. Rajnandgaon I^-2-52 .. Soani . 4-2-54 •• Wuh . . 12-10-53 Orisu . . . Balasorc 17-8-53 Sambalpur . . •• 1-4-53 Punjab . . . . Curdaspuf . . 27-10-52 Hoshlsrimr . . ,, 1-5-52 Kamal . . ,, 2-1-53 .. Pathankot . . lJlriI -52 Rohtak . . • • l^IQ -52 Uttar Pradesh . • Azam^h . . 2-1-53 Bthraich . . 1-2-52 Ballia . . 11-11-52 Basti . . ii-H -52 Bijnor . . 1-6-54 Budaun . . 2-12-52 Gonda , . II-lX-*52 Lali^mpur Kheri 2-1^52 Mainpuri . . II-II-52 Mirzapur . . 1-7-53 Pilibhit . . 2-3-53 Roorkec . . 1-12-53 Shahjahanpur . II-II.52 West Bengal . . Bcrhampore . . 5-1-53 Chinsurah . . IJ-12-52 Krishnagar . . 2-12-52 Kuich . . . . Bhuj . . 5-5-53 Vindhya Pradesh . . Rewa , . 21-6-S4 Salna . . 24-6-M (b) No, Sir. The views of the State context of their enquiry into rur^ Governments regarding the establish- cTcdit conditions. m(^nl of Warebousiixg Development Board have been obtained by the B order T kajmc in A rms Reserve Bank of India and the matter 808. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the beint;! further examined by the M inister of Home Affairs be pleased to latter. The cjuestion of warehousing state the number of cases of illicit is also enga^;ing the attention of the traffic in arms betw^n India and All-India Rural Credit Survey in the Nepal so far during 1954-55? 1777 Writt&n Answers 28 S K T P fB e R 1954 Vi/ritten Answers 1778 TOe ^^Ister of 9ome Adairs mod (b) the reasons for the same; and St^Us (pr. fotju): The injormation has been called for from the Govern (c) the present scale of pay of the ments of the States concerned and Chief Geophysicist? will be laid on the Table of the House The Minister of Education and Na in due course. tural Resources and Sciemtific Re search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (b). C orruption No. 3ir. " 809. Sbri Ram aiM da Das: Will the (c) Rs. 1300-60-1600. Minister of pome AfTain be pleased to state: S m u g g l in g op G old D ust (a) the total number of cases of cor ?11. Sliri Bishang Keishing:Will the ruption against Goverpmejit pfiftci^rs Minister of Finance be pleased to state, which have been reported to the (a) whether it is a fact that about Special Police Establishment from 11,200 ounces of gold dust were smug Ut April, 19W to the 30]th June. 1954 gled from North Burma to India via (State-wise); and Imphal as has been r^orted by a News (b) the procedure adopted in dealing Agency from Rangoon; with such cases of corruption and ap (b) if so, the action that has been proximate time taken in completing taken by the Central Land Customs enquiry against such officers? Department on the Indo-Burma border The MinMer of Home Affaln anA at the time of smuggling; and Spates (Dr. Katjn): (a) A statement (c) the preventive measures that is laid on the Table of the House. [See the Qoverpment of India have taken A p p e n d ix VIII, a n n e x u r e No. 79]. to check such smuggling on the border? (b) If the investigation of the case shows that sufRcient evidence is forth The Deputy Minister of Fteaiiee coming for prosecuting an accused (Shri A. C. Guha): (a) The Govern person, sanction is obtained for such ment of India are not aware of any prosecution from the authority compe smuggling incident during 1954. tent to remove the accused person (b) Does not arise. from service. The case is then put in to court. It is not possible to stbite the (c) A statement showing some of approximate time taken in completing the steps taken to prevent smuggling an enquiry against an accused official through the land frontiers is placed as this depends on the nature and on the T^ble of the Sabha. [5?ec Ap maienltude of the particular case. pendix VIII, annexure No. 80]. If, in any case, the evidence is in- O p iu m F actory at N eemuch su^cient to obtain a conviction in a court of law but neverthless is suffi 812. Shri U. M. Trivedi: WUl the cient to show that the official is guilty Miiiister of Finance be pleased to of misconduct, the matter is referred state: to the administrative Ministry con (a) whether it is a fact that 42 class cerned for taking departmental action III and class IV employees in the against the official. opium factory at Neemuch under the Narcotics Commission have all been G bophysicist in G i'Ological S urvey temporary hands for the last eighteen 810. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will the years; Minister of Natural Resources and (b) if so, the reasons therefor; and ^lentbjU; Reseatcli hie pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that the post (c) whether Government have made of Geophysicist In the Geoloflcal gur- a ^ arrangements for their future on vfey lias recently bcjen up-graded; retirement? 1780 1779 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBEfl 1954 Written Answers The Minister of Finance (b) if so, whether the employees of (Shrl A. C .Guha); (a) A statement this Department are treated as Gov^- showing the Class m and Class IV emment Servants; staff of the factory is enclosed. [See Appendix VIII, annexure No. 81]. It (c) whether the Canteen Stores Pe* partment (India) Employees* Union will be seen therefrom that there are have made any representations to Gov in all 3 temporary Class III employees ernment regarding their demands; and and 57 temporary Class IV employees, out of whom there are only 7 Class IV (d) if so, what are those demands, temporary employees who have put in and whether Government have consi more than 18 years service. dered them? (b) Till 31st Mareh, 1950, the em 1%e Deputy Minister of DeAnoe ployees at the Neemvjch Opium Fac (Smrdar Majithia): (a) No public funds tory were being paid out of the funds are invested in the Canteen Stores provided under Joint Opium Officer’s Department. It functions as an auto Scheme. Under this Scheme, the nomous commercial organisation with States of Madhya Bharat and R ajaS ; funds of its own. than were required to contribute a specified amount for the maintenance (b) No. -of the Joint Opium Ofiflcer and his (c) Yes. fitaff. The scheme was sanctioned on a year to year basis and the question (d) A list of the demands is laid of confirming the employees did not, on the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See therefore, arise. The Factory and its Appendix VIII, annexure No. 82J. ittalT have been taken over by the Some of the demands have been con-. Government of India from 1st April, sidered while a few are under consi 1950. The seven employees who have deration. put in more than 18 years’ service but are still temporary were among the O rdnance O fficers (C iv il ia n s ) staff of the factory who were in the past years paid from the contingencies, 814. Dr. Ram Snbhag Singh: Will the i.e. they were not on the regular Minister of Defence be pleased to state: establishment. After the taking over of (a) the present strength of the the factory by the Government pf India, Ordnance .Officers ^ (Civilians) in the the question of bringing them on to Army Ordnance Corps; the regular establi'shment w a s consi dered and they have now been ab (b) the categories in which these sorbed in the regular establishment officers have been classified for the with effect from 1st July, 1954. The purpose of retrenchment or retention question of their confirmation is also and the basis therefor; being considered. (c) whether any post-war strength (c) Presumably the hon. Member of these officers has been fixed and M wants to know whether they will get BO, what it is; any i)ension or gratuity after retire (d) whether the officers surplus to ment. They will certainly get the the post-war strength will be retrench gratuity and the pension admissible ed during the current year; and under the rules to the Government servants on retirement. (e) whether any facilities are given to the retrenched officers to secure new Canteen S tores D epartm ent jobs? 813. Sliri Gftdwani: Will the Minister Tlic Deputy Bfinistex ef Defence of Defence be pleased to state: (Shri Satisb Chandra): (a) 361. (a) whether the Canteen Stores De partment (India) is a Government (b) A Departmental Promotion Com undertaking; mittee has graded direct recruits *0 W ritUn Answers 28 SEPTEBIBER 1954 Wntten Answers 1782 thfc post of Ordnanc* Offlcerg (?r) 3if? ai7mr ^ (Qvilians) as follows:— (a) Outstanding. fliKTJT f , arft (b) and (c). The Information is ■not lift ^ vrrir it , available. W ritten AntW€T8 28 SEPTXICBER 1954 Written Answers 1784 1783 F oreign A id to I ndia by the Government of India to suggest the names of books in Oriyai 818. Shri K. P. Trlpathl: Will the suitable for children's literature: Minister of Finance be pleased to state: (b) if so, the suggestions that have (a) whether the 20 million dollars been received by Government in this foreign aid offered by U.S.A. to India connection; and , to purchase 100 steam locomotives and (c) whether the suggestions have 5,000 railway wagons would be a been approved by Government? grant or a loan; The Minister of Education and Na* (b) whether it is a fact that th# tniul Resources and Scientific lowest tenders have not been accepted search (Maulana Azad): (a) Yes. for part of the contract; (b) Some books have been received (c) if so, who will bear the burden from the State Government which arc of the additional cost on account of being examined. the increased price in case it would be a loan; and (c) Not so far. (d) the estimated amount of this “G a n d h i M akapuran ** additional cost? 821. Shri Saaganiia: WiU the Minis* The Deputy Minister of Ftnanee ter of Education be pleased to state: (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) Grant. (a) whether the Government of (b) Yes, Sir. India propose to obtain an Oriya edition of the “Gandhi Mahapuran’', (c) In view of answer to (a) above, which has been published in Orissa, the question does not arise; it may be for use in the National Library^ stated, however, that the additional Calcutta; and cost will be fully met by an additional grant from the U.S.A. (b) if so, what is the price of the book? (d) Approximately nine to ten mil lion Dollars. The l^linister of EducaUon and Na tural It^urces and Scient^c Re- G rants to P oets a n d W riters seareb (Maulana Axad): (a) Yet. 819. Shri Sanganna: Will the Mini- (b) Not known. iter of Education be pleased to state: (a) whether the Government of C hiud G uidance Centre Orissa have recommended the cases of Oriya poets and writers for sanction 822. Shri Dholakia: Will the Minis^ of grants during the year 1954-55; ter of Education be pleased to state: (a) the kind of guidance given in (b) if 90, their names; and the Child Guidance Centre, opened in (c) the decision taken by Govern the Central Institute of Education, ment in the matter? Delhi; The Minister of Education and Na (b) the number of persons benefit tural Resources and Scientific Re ed from this Centre during the year search (Maulana Azad); (a) No, Sir. 1953-54; (b) and (c). Do not arise. (c) the total number of ‘Child Guidance Centres’ and the names of C h il d r e n ’s L it b r a t u r h the places where they are located in 820. Shri Sanganna: Will the Mini India; and ster of Education be pleased to state: (d) whether Government will place (a) whether it is a fact that the on the Table of the House ‘reports’ of Government of Orisaa have been aske^ the Work done at thel* CentWs? 1785 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1786 The Minister of Education and Na (c) the number of such private tural Resources and Scientific Re schools in each State which are receiv search (Maulana Acad): (a) The ing grants-in-aid from Government; cases jeferred to the centre are mostly (d) the number of boys and girls cases o£ mentally retarded children. enrolled in these schools during the ^Beyond testing their level of intelli period mentioned in part (a) above; gence, not much has been done to and help them so far. A special class or school is required for that purpose (e) the expenditure incurred by which the Institute does not at present Government by way of maintenance possess. etc., of these schools during the same period? Other cases are of emotionally dis turbed children showing various The Minister of Education and Na symptoms such as aggression, reces tural Resourqes and Scientific Re siveness or shyness, stubbornness or search (Maulana Asad): (a) to (c). ^ disobedience, bed-wetting or neurosis, The information regarding the year restlessness or lack of concentration, 1953-54 is not yet available. It may educational backwardness and anti further be pointed out that such in- social behaviour of various types, like foimation when received? from the stealing, assault and pick-pocketing. State Governments is published in In these cases guidance has generally the Annual Reports and copies of faken the form of necessary psycho these Reports are available in the logical instructions to the parents or Library. guardians. The Institute is also trying to follow-up the cases referred to it. F oreion M issionary S ocieties ■r although it has not had any notable 824. Shri Rishang Keishing:Will the success in the matter so far. Minister of Home Affairs be pleased (b) During the year 1953-54, thirty to state: rases received faiidance at the centre, (a) the names of the Foreign Mis the details of which are: Aggression—3, sionary Societies allowed to work in Neurosis—3, Lack of concentration or Manipur uptil now; restlessness—2, Mentally retarded,. the (b) whether Government have total backward or the dull—18, Recessive ly banned the entry of Foreign Mis or Shy—2, Stubborn or disobedient—2. sionaries into Manipur State; and ^ Besides these the reader in Psycho (c) if so, the reasoi^ therefor? logy at the Institute studied 140 de The Minister of Home Affairs and linquent children in the District Jail States (Dr. Ka^lu): (a) According to and the Children's Home. Delhi, at information available with Govern the invitation of the authorities there. ment, two Foreign Missionary Socie (c) and (d). The information asked ties viz, the North-East Indian General for is the concern of State Govern Mission and the American Baptist ments. F*>reign Mission are working in Mani pur. ^ P rb -P rim ary Schools (b) No. 828. Shri Dholakta: Will the Minis (c) Does oot arise. ter of Education be pleased' to state: (a) the total niunber of pre-Primary | | N o n -I n d ia n E mployees Schools working in each State of 825. Diwan Raghavendra Rao: Will India during the period from the 1st the Minister of Natural Resources April, 1953 to the 31st March, 1954; and Scientific Research be pleased to state: (b)w tfee number of schools maintain ed by Government and by private (a) the number of persons of non- organizations respectively; Indian origin employed in varioug 428 L.S.D. 1787 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written A^iswers 1788 capacities under the Ministry at pre held by the International Summer sent; and School for teaching German language; (b) tjie nature of their employment? (b) if so, the number and names of these students; and • The Minister of Education and Na (c) who will bear their expenses? tural Resources and Scientific Re search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (b). The Minister of Education and Na A statement giving the required infor- tural Resources and Scientific Re martion is enclosed. [See Appendix search (Maulana Azad)y (a) No. Sir. VIII, annexure No. 84]. (b) and (c)* Do not arise. P rofit I ndex C a n t e e n S t o r e s D e p a r t m e n t 826. Shri K. P. Tripathi: Will the 828. Shri Kirolikar: Will the Minis Minister of Finance be pleased to ter of Defence be pleased to state: state the profit index compiled by (a) whether the receipts and ex Government for the years 1952, 1953, penditure of Canteen Stores Depart 1954 (first half) in respect of the ment, India are subject to Govern following industries in India:— ment audit; (i) Cotton textile, (b) the amount of capital that has (ii) Jute, been invested in the said department (iii) Cement, by Government; and (iv) Paper, (c) the number of employees (v) Steel and Iron, w^orking in this Department? (vi) Chemicals, The Deputy Minister of Dcfciice (vii) Engineering, (Sardar Majithia): (a) Yes. The re (viii) Tea, ceipts and expenditure of the Canteen Stores Department (India) are subject (ix) Coffee, to the local Test Audit by the Direc (x) Rubber, tor of Audit, Defence Services. They (xi) Sugar, are subject to detailed audit by a firm (xii) Managing agency houses, of Chartered Accountants appointed (xiii) Petroleum, by the Board of Control. Canteen Services. (xiv) Banks, and (b) Nil. (xv) Insurance Companies? (c) 869 as per details below:— The Deputy Minister of Finance Class III and above ... 415 (Shri M. C. Shah); A statement con Class IV on monthly rate ... 377 taining the available information in Class IV on daily rate 77. respect of seven industries is laid on the Table. [Sec Appendix VIII, an. nexure No. 85J. Profit indices in res I n c o m e -T ax A s s e s s m e n t pect of the other industries are not 829. Shri K. C. Sodhia: Will the compiled at present. Minister of Finance be pleased to state: TCACHING pERMAN LANGUAGE To (a) the total number of individual Foreigners assessees of income-tax havinpf a R27. Shri Sang-anna: Will the Minis- salary income above Rs. 25,000 be rlerrspd to state: 1953-54; , ‘ ' ' ' V Gov«fi;rnment of (b) the number among them who ’ - ; .1: . y students to Vienna wore Government employees; and ' " • .... . from the 15t)h (c) the total collections of tax from IQ the 30th September, 1954^ these during the same year? M 9 Writtin Arlswers 2d SE!PT4MBI1R 1954 Written Answers 17^ The Deputy Minister of Finance (n) «n?ft ^ wqr (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) 7,716. aiw # I (b) and (c). This information is not available i’rom the Income-tax Reve (tr) ^ HTiBn ’irrrft nue Statistics. # ?rr ’’T ^ i w # , arf? P e n sio n C laim s (?.) «WT ^ pr ^ 830. Shrl Dholakia: Will the Minis ^ f 7 ter of States be pleased to state the number of Kutch Government ser The Deputy Minister of Defence vants, retii'ed or made to retire (Sardar Majithia): (a) There is no during the period 1948-49, 1949-50, Cantonment at Khurja in Bulaudshahr 1950-51 and 1951-52, whose pensions District. Presumably, the words claims have not been settled so far? “Cantonment area” mean the Camping Tlie Minister of Home Affairs and Ground at Khurja. The area of this States (Dr. Katju): The information Camping Ground is 52 03 acres. is being collected from the Govern (b) 47-50 acres. The remaining ment of Kutch and will be placed on area of 4*53 acres has been leased out the Table of the S^ibha, when receiv to the J.A.S. Higher Secondary School ed.' authorities at Khurja for use as a play-ground on a rental of Rs. 50/- p.a. (c) Rs. 550/- per annum. : ^*rr (d) The land has been leased out. (e) Yes. j . (^) ^ (*rwr it^) ^ ?mwifT f w w vn f ^ aip M ’ f , ^ irin : ^ ^ ^ 5prr ^ : ( m ^ rf, 4 r^r ^ (ap) ^ ?T^rwFr ^ ^ ^ fsnrfw ^ ^ (»r) p r arr ^ihRT ^W=RicRr ^ ^ vgpp^ ^ ^ I ^ . . 1^' The Deputy Minister of Defence (?T) ^ ft, ^ ^ ^ (Sardar Majithia): (a) No. ij^ 7 ••■’h* (b) Does not arise. The Minister of Home Alfairs and (c) Does not arise. States (Dr. KatJu): (a) The State Government have proposed certain irrigation schemes for the considera wnnft tion of the Planning Commission. Other schemes have not been receiv ; ^ ^ ed so far, but are under considera tion by the State Government. (^) ??53rf (fsren ^ (b) It is premature to publish parti culars of the irrigation schemes as they will have to be technically scruti nised and considered further, along (W hrrrff ( p ^ h^»t W ^ JT^?r B alance of T rade a n d B alance o r isrT^ ^ pfT^ ^ P aym ent 836. Mulla AbdulUbhai: Will the JTwr J T ^ ^ «iT!r I Minister of Finance be pleased to W ) ^ ? ir imfsn T? state: fro? fsnn ^ I 3if? (a) the names of the countries with which the Balance of Payment was (n) ^ ^ favourable to India in 1953-54; and (b) the amount of the invisible earnings of India from (i) shipping The Minister of Education and Na and (ii) insurance? tural Resources and Scientific Re search (Maulana Azad): (a) to (c). The Madhya Pradesh Government has The Deputy Minister of Finance not sent any request to the Ministry (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) Full information of Natural Resources and Scientific is not available, but according to the Research on the subject. Informa information at present available the tion from other sources is being col poiition was that India had a favour lected and will be laid on the Table able balance of payments on current of the House. account with the following coun tries:— B a nk A w ard (i) Ceylon. 885. Mulla Abduliabhai: Will the Minister of Finance be pleased to (ii) U.S.A. state: (iii) Canada. (a) whether Government have (b) During 1953-54, India’s invisible worked out the figures regarding the net eai-nings from (i) transportation additional expenditure that the Banks including shipping amounted to in India would have to incur In case Rs. 21.1 crores; and (ii) from insu- the recent Bank Award is given effect ranco^ Rs. 1.6 crores. to; and (b) if so the estimated amoimt of S e c t io n 144 in P a r t ‘C* S ta te s additional expenditure? 837. Mulla Abduliabhai: Will the Minister of States be pleased to state: The Deputy Minister of Finance (Shri A. C. Quha): (a) As mentioned (a) the number of Part ‘C* States in the Government Resolution issued where Section 144 of the Criminal with the Labour Ministry’s Procedure Code was promulgated No. LR100(56)/64, dated the 17th during (i) 1953-54 and (ii) 19^^55 so September, 1954, Government have far; and collected information in respect of a (b) the duration of the order in certain number of banking companies each case in each of the States where of various classes selected as a re it was enforced? presentative sample for the purpose. Government have instituted a fact The Minister of Home Affairs and finding enquiry under Justice Shri States (Dr. Katju): (a) and (b). The Rajadhyaksha for further investiga information is being collected and will tion of this matter. One of the terms be laid on the Table of the House. 1793 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1794 G bolooical T rigonometry S t o n es The Depvty Minister of Defence (Shri Sat^fih Chandra): (a) Yes. But 838. Shri Sanganna: Will the Mmis- this rule does not apply to Minis ter of Natural Resources and Scientific terial officers who entered Govern ^Research be pleased to state: ment service on or after 31st April, (a) whether Geological Trigonometry 1938, or who being in Government Stones in Orissa are being maintained service on 31st March, 1938, did not by the Central Government or the hold lien or a suspended lien cn a Government of Orissa or by both; permanent post on that date. (b) whether any survey has been (b) Eastern Command: 22 made of the places where these Stones Southern Command: 6 have been fixed within the last two or (c) The Ministry of Home Affairs three years in order to ensure their have issued instructions ' advising correct location; and Ministries to consider sympathetically the advisability of retiring and re- (c) in case the survey stones are employing the Displaced Govern maintained by the State Government, ment servants till their pensions (inv the extent to \^hich the expenditure eluding anticipatory pensions) are thereon is reimbursed by the Govern actually sanctioned in cases where ment of India? pensions are not likely to be actual ly sanctioned immediately on The Minister of Education and Na superannuation. These instructions tural Resources and Scientific Re are applicable to all Displaced Gov- search (Maulana Azad): (a) and (c). enirneiii serviiuis iii centicn The Trigonometrical Stones are looked Government Establishments and are after by the State Government through not peculiar to the Central Govern their District Officers. Expenditure ment servants in Defence alone. on repairs to the stones is, however, met by the Central Government. H arijans (b) No, Sir. 841. Shri Ram Dhani Das: Will the Minister of Home Affairs be pleased to state: S uperannuated S t a if in M. li S. •V ‘ (a) whether Government have r Shrimati Renu Chakrayartty: directed tlie State Governments to \ Shri N. B. Chowdhury: watch the progress of Harijans, so as to assure equal progress of all the sub Will the Minister of Defence be castes of Harijans; and pleased to state: (b) if not, the reasons therefor? (a) whether there is any rule The Deputy Minister of Home whereby a Government servant under Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) and (b). No Ministerial EstabliiJhments having such direction is called for, because, reached the superannuation can ordi in the opinion of this Government, narily be retained in service upto the State Governments sCre already alive age of sixty provided he continues to to the necessity of ameliorating the be efficient and medically fit; conditions of all the weaker sections (b) IP so, the number of such cases of the society including Scheduled of staff retained in service at present Castes with all sub-castes. in the M.E.S. in Eastern and Southern H arijans in B ihar Commands; and 842. Shri Ram Dhani Das: Will the (c) whether there is any special Minister of Home Affairs be pleased to consideration shown in this matter to state the amount of money given to the Central Government servants in the State of Bihar since 1950 year- Defence who are displaced persons wise to ameliorate the conditions of from Pakistan? Harijans^ 1795 'Written Answers 28 SEPiytB£ll 1654 Written Answers 179^ The IDeputy Minister of Home (d) whether any of the convicts Affairs (Shri Datar): No grants are held passports of either countries; and given to State Governments for the * * amelioration of the conditions of Hari- (e) if so, their number? jans. Grants are being given to State The Deputy Minister of Finance Governments and certain all-India (Shri A. C. Guha): (a) The following Organisations of repute for the re measures are being adopted to prevent moval of untouchability since 1953-54. smuggling on the Purnea border;— During this year a sum of Rs. 1,30,000 was given to Bihar for this purpose. (i) Extensive patrolling is regu For the current financial year a sum larly undertaken by the Land of Rs. 1,00,000 has already been paid Customs and Preventive Staff and another instalment of an equal posted on iho Indo-Pakistan amount will be paid before the close border. of the financial year on the receipt of (ii) One land-rover has been in use full details regarding the actual ex for patrolling the border for penditure etc. incurred by the State the last three years. Government on these schemes includ (iii) The preventive arrangements ing that met from their own funds. are being reinforced by making another vehicle and an * L oan to O rissa extra Preventive party avail P43. Shri Sanganna: Will the Minw- able to the Superintendent of Icr of Finance be pleased to state: Central Excise, Kishanganj, who controls the rhajor por (a) whether the Government of tion of the Indo-Pakistan India have sanctioned any loan to the border adjoining Purnea Government of Orissa, for the (Bihar). improvement of Cuttack City under the Master Plan; (b) No smuggler was convicted dur ing this period. (b) if so, the amount of loan sanctioned; and (c) to (e). Do not arise. (c) the mode in which the loan is repayable? Earthquakes in N orth E a s t In d ia The Deputy Minister of Finance 845. Shri L. N. Mishra: Will the (ShH M. C. Shah): (a) No. Sir, Minister of Natural Resources and Scientific Research be pleased to state: (b) and (c). Do not arise. (a) whether it is a fact that an emi nent Geologist of West Bengal has Smuggled G oods made a forecast that North East India will experience a number of earth 844. Shri M. Isiamtfddin: Will the quakes during the next two hundred Minister of Finance be pleased to years at an interval of eight years; refer to the reply to starred question and No. 2194 asked on the 3rd May, 1954 and state: (b) if so, whether Government pro pose to explore the possibilities of pre (a) the measures that are being venting such occurrences? taken by Government to combat smuggling on the borders of Purnea The Minister of Education and Na (BiharV tural Resources and Scientific Re (b) the number of smugglers con search (Maulana Azad): (a) News- victed in 1952 and 1953; jwipers reports ’ indicate that Prof. S. K. Banerji of the College of En (c) how many of the convicts were gineering and Technology, Jadavpur, Indians. and how many were has made a statement that, based on P^dci^toni^; the past frequency of earthquakes, 25 Written Answers 28 SEPli»ffiER 1954 Written Answers 179* 1797 earthquakes in the next 200 years may (b) The coniposition of the ad hoc be expected to occur. Conunittee is as under:— (i) A representative of the Minis (b) No methods are known by which try of Defence of the rank of occurrences of earthquakes can be Deputy Secretary. prevented. (ii) A representative of the Minis G o o d w ill a n d C ultural M issio ns try of Finance (Defence) not lower in rank than an Un 846. Shri Ibrahim: Will the Minister der Secretary. of fiducation be pleased to state: (ill) The Director, Lands Hirings , (a) the number of Government and Disposals Service or his sponsored goodwill and cultural representative. " missions sent abroad during the year 1953-54; (c) 93.- (b) the amount of expenditure in (d) The Committee is composed of curred by Government in each case; members who have adequate ex (c) the names of the countries visit perience in dealing with such matters. ed by them; and They are assisted by technically quali fied officers of the Lands; Hirings and (d) what criteria are followed for Disposals Service. sending these cultural and goodwill missions abroad as also in regard tp S cheduled Castes S cholar sh ips the selection of their personnel? 848. Shri B. N. Kureel: WUl the The Minister of Education and Na Minister of Education be pleased to tural Resources and Scientific Re state the number of students whose search (Maulana Azad): (a) to (d). scholarships were either cancelled or The information is being collected and withheld by the Scheduled Castes, will be laid on the Table of the House. Scheduled Tribes and other Backward Classes Scholarships Board during thQ L\ n d s , H irings a nd D isposals S ervice years 1952-53 and 1953-54 as a result of the adverse reports against them 847. Shri G., P. Sinha: Will the from the Heads of Institutions and the Minister of Defence be pleased to amount thus saved during tlie above state: period? ^ (a) whether an ad-hoc Committee The Minister of Education and Na has been appointed to settle the large tural Resources and Scientific Re number of unsettled claims outstand search (Maulana Azad): The second ing with the Lands, Hirini^s and Dis half-yearly instalment of seventy posals Service, Calcutta, in respect of students was discontinued during the properties acquired, requisitioned and years 1952-53 and 1953-54 as they had hired by the Defence Authorities shown unsatisfactory progress in, during the last War; studies during the first half of the academic year and also failed or did (b) the comoosition of the above not appear in the annual examination. ad-hoc Committee; The money thus saved amounted to (c) the number of cases disposed of Rs. 18J75 which was utilized in till now; and awarding scholarships to other candi dates belonging to these classes. (d) the qualifications of the mem bers of the ad-hoc Committee, S ur plus M ilitary L ands especially of those who settle the cases of a technical pature involving pay 849. Shri G. P. Sinha: WiU the ments of large sums of money? Minister of Defence be pleased to state: (a) the number of surplus military The Deputy Minister of Def^n^e camps, lands, buildings hired or re (Sardar Majlthia): (a) Yes. quisitioned and Air fields .held on 1799 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers l8oO charge by the Defence Ministry as on (c) The monument is not very an the 31st August, 1954; cient and is not considered to be of (b) the total ahiount of loss incurred national importance. , by Government in respect of above surplus camps etc., on account of H in d u s t a n A ircraft , L t d ., B angalore rentals and other recurring expenses; 851. Shri H. N. Mukerjee; WIU the and Minister of Defence be pleased to state: (c) the total acreage of land held on (a) whether it is a fact that a high charge in each State separately by the officer of the Department of Radio and Defence Ministry as on the 31st August, Instruments of the Hindustan Aircraft 1954, which was hired, requisitioned or Ltd., Bangalore, was arrested recently acquired during the last war and was on charges of theft; declared surplus to Defence Depart ment requirements? (b) if so, whether the said officer The Deputy Minister of Defence has been suspended; and (Sardar Majithia): (a) 120. Out of (c) whether proper investigation it these, 42 are in various stages of dis being made in the matter? posal, the remaining 78 being in the temporary occupation of other Minis The Deputy Minister of Defcncc tries or State Governments or the (Shri Satish Chandra): (a) A Chief Services concerned. Supervisor of the factory was afrrest- (b) There is no loss. The total an ed and immediately released on bail. nual rental paid is Rs. 10,60,695. Out Of this, Rs. 9,01,899 being recover (b) No, Sir. ed from other Ministries and State Governments who are in occupation (c) The case is pending in a criminal of some of the properties. Properties court. As file matter is sub judice, it under disposal account for an annual would not be appropriate to give fur rental liability of Rs. 1,32,841. The ther information. rest of the total annual rental (i.e. Rs. 25,955), constitutes the annual rental in respect of properties which are in the occupation of the Services. (c) A statement is laid on the Table *5*TW fvnih V w of the Lok Sabha. [5ee Appendix VIII, annexure No. 86]. (^) TO ^ ^ iTlTir Jyotisar 850. Shri M. D. Joshi: Will the Minister of Education be pleased to state: : (a) whether Government have in ^ t I cluded Jyotisar in Kurukshetra among the Archaeological monuments («•) TO ^ ^ to be preserved and maintained by Government; (b) if so, the steps taken for its pre cT^ ^ ^ ^ i W h|5 servation; and w h I ^ ^ (c) if not, the reasons therefor? ( art*? The Minister of Education and Na tural Reflources and Scientific Re (»T) TO ^ ^ «rof The MinfHter of Education and Na Nikhil Utkal Kui Samaj Union has sub tural Resources and Scientific Re mitted the scheme direct to the Central search (Maulana Azad): (a) No> Sir. Social Welfare Board. (b) and (c). Do not arise. (b) Does not arise. In view of the fact that the ‘uplift of Adivasis* does E m plo y ees of S urvey of I n d ia D epart not fall within the purview of the m ent Board, it has supplied the Union with 853. Shri N. B. Chowdhnry: Will tLe literature indicating the fields of wel Minister of Natural Resources and fare activities for which voluntary Scientific Research be pleased to state: organisations can apply for financial (a) whether employees of certain assistance and has requested them to categories in the Survey of India De submit a fresh application in the light partment are governed by Factory of the information given. Act and Industrial Disputes Act; and W elfare E xtension P rojects (b) if so, what is their number? The Minister of Education and Na 856. Shri R. S. Lal: WUl the Minister tural Resources and Scientific Re of Education be pleased to state the search (Maulana Asad): (a) Yes, Sir. number of Welfare Extension Projects (Statewise) inaugurated on the 15th (b) Class III 417 August, 1954? Class IV 827 The Minister of Education and Na tural Resources and Scientific Re C lass IV E m ployees (S urvey of I n d ia ) search (Maulana Azad): Attention is 854. Shri N. B. Chowdhury: Will the invited to reply to Starred Question Minister of Natural Resources and No. 1264, given on 23rd September, Scientific Research be pleased to state: 1954, in the House. (a) whether it is a fact that Class IV employees of Eastern Circle of Sur A rrears of Income -T ax vey of India at Shillong are not paid 857. Shri Sanganna: Will the Minis Shillong Compensatory Allowance; and ter of Finance be pleased to state: (b) whether other classes of employees have been given this allow (a) the outstanding arrears of ance? income-tax pending realisation in each circle of the Orissa State; and The Minister of Education and Na tural Resources and Scientific Re (b) the number of revenue certi ficates issued by Government during search (Maulana Azad):(a) Yes, Sir. the years 1952-53, 1953-54 and 1954-55 (b) Yes, Sir. (so far) for realisation of income-tax? U p l i f t o f A d iv a sis The Deputy Minister of Finance (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) and (b). The 855. Shri Sanganna: Will the Minis information has been called for and ter of Education be pleased to state: will be laid on the Table of the House (a) whether the Nikhil Utkal Kui when received. Samaj Union in Phulbani District (Orissa) has submitted a scheme of I nter -V arsity Y outh FBstival Rs. 1,22,270 for the uplift of Adivasis 858. Shri S. N. Das: WiU the Minis for transmission to the Central Social ter of Education be pleased to state: Welfare Board; and (a) whether it is a fact that Go (b) if so, the decision taken by Gov vernment have decided to hold an ernment in the matter? Inter-Varsity Youth Festival in Delhi; and The Minister of Education and Na tural Resources and Sclentlfie Re (b) if so, the important features of search (Maulana Asad): (a) The its programme? 425 L.S.D. i 8o 3 Written Answers 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Written Answers 1804 The Minister of Education and Na Central Government employees under tural Resources and Scientific Re going treatment for tuberculosis; and search (Maulana Azad): (a) Yes. * * (b) If so, the action taken thereon? (b) Inter-University Competition The Deputy Minister of Finance will be held on the lollowing items:— (Shri M. C. Shah): (a) Yes. 1. Arts (Painting—oil and water, (b) The restriction on the grant of pen or pencil drawing, sculp “leave not due’' on half average pay ture). to permanent and quasi-permanent 2. Crafts (embroidery, paints employees suffering from tuberculosis, designs, leather work, wood which was in existence previously, has carving, clay models, etc). been removed. 3. Photography. The maximum amount of extra ordinary leave without allowances 4. Classical Music—vocal and which temporary Government servfmts instrumental (male and can take on any one occasion has also female). been increased from twelve months to eighteen rnnnths. 5. Radio Play. 6. Classical Dance (male and E.XPORT D uty on I ron female). 858-B.—Shri Buchhikotaiah: Will the 7. One Act Play. Minister oi‘ Finance be pleased to state: 8. Hindi Elocution. 9. Group Folk Dance. (a) whether any export duty has been levied on iron; and 10. Play Writing Competition. (b) if so, the total amount realized 11. Poster for the Festival. so far this year on this account? 12. A design for cover of a journal The Deputy Minister of Finance for Y ou th called “Naujawan”. (Shri A. C. Guha): (a) Yes, sir. Ex port duty is levied on items of iron G ovi -rnment Servants suffcring from and steel including under Items 10(a) T uberculosis . and 10(b) of the Second Schedule to 858-A. Dr. Rama Rao: Will the the Indian Tariff Act, 1934. Minister of Finanace be pleased to (b) The amount of duty realised state: during the current financial year (upto (a) Whether Government have re August, 1954) on items of Iron and ceived any representations to libera Steel together is Rs. 1,43,000. The lise the leave rules applicable to the figure for Iron alone is not available ...... Vol. V ll— No. ^ 28th September, 1954 (Tuesdeyj LOK SABHA DEBATES (Part II—Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) ( K o /. VII contaim Nos,1 6 —) LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI SIX ANtUrOtMtafl)) TWO SRILLINOS (POmON) CONTENTS Columns Message from the Rajya Sabha ...... 3493 Paptrs laid on the Table— Report of the Spices Enquiry Committee . ' . . . 3493 Stotement re : correaion of answer to Starred Question No. 2130 ...... 3494 Report and stetements re : the RehabilitPtion Finance Adminis tration ...... 3494 Notifications under Central Excises and Salt Act, 1944 . . 3494-3495 Public Accounts Committee—Eleventh and Twelfth Reports— Presented...... 3495 Motion for adjournment— - Proposed strike by insurance em ployees...... 3495— ^3497 Demands for Supplementary Grants for 1954-55— • . . 3497—3542 Appropriation (No. 3) Bill— Introduced and passed . . . 3542— 3543 Fall in price of food and agricultural raw materials . . , 3543—3571 Motions re ; Service Rules ...... 3571—3650 Allegations of corruption against Deputy Shipping Master, Calcutta P o r t ...... 3650—3662 IXIKSABHA DEBATES .... (Part II—^Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) 3493 3494 L O K SABH A S t a t e m e n t re: correction or ANSWER to starred QUESTION Tuesday, 28th September, 1954. No. 2130 * The Minister of ParUamenUry The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan Sinba): the Clock Sir, I beg to lay on the Table a copy of tl^ Statement correcting the reply [M r . S peaker in the Chair] given to Starred Question No. 2130, asked on the 29th April, 1954. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS [Placed in Library. See No. S-373/ 54.] (See Part I) R eport and S tatem ents r e : THE R ehabilitation F in a n c e A d 12 N oon . ministration . MESSAGE FROM THE RAJYA The Deimty Minister of Finance SABHA (Shrt A. C. Gnha): Sir. I beg to lay Secretary: Sir, I have to report the on the Table a copy of each of the following message received from the following papers under sub-section Secretary of the Rajya Sabha:— (2) of section 18 of the Rehabilitation Finance Administration Act, 1948: — “ In accordance with the pro visions of rule 125 of the Rules of (1) Report of the Rehabilitation Procedure and Conduct of Busi Finance Administration for ness in the Rajya Sabha, I am the half year ended the 31st directed to inform the Lok Sabha December, 1953. that the Rajya Sabha, at its sitting (2) Analysis of charges for the held on the 25th September, 1954, year ended the 31st Decem agreed without any amendment ber. 1953. to the Displaced Persons (Com pensation and Rehabilitation) (3) Statement of loans called up Bill, 1954, which was passed by •during the year 1953. the Lok Sabha at its sitting held (4) Summary of statement of on the 22nd September, 1954.” overdue instalments for the period ended the 31st December. 1953. PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE [Placed in Library, See No. S-363/ H eport of the S pices E n q u ir y 54.1 C o m m it t e e . N otifications under C entral E x The Minister of Agrictiltim (Dr. cises and S a l t A ct, 1944 P. S. Deshmukh); Sir, I beg to lay on the Table a copy of the Report of n e Deputy Minister of Finance the Spices Enquiry Committee. (Shri A. €. Qnha): Sir. I beg to lay [Placed in Library, See Na S-372/ on th£ Table a copy of each of the 54.] following Central Excises Notifications 445 L.S.D. 3495^^^^ Adjournment 28 SKPTBMBKR 1954 Motion for Adjournment 3496 [Shri A. C. Guht] in accordance with section 38 of the Industrial Tribimal for the in Central Excises and Salt Act, 1»44:— surance industry.” (1) Notification No. 18. dated I presume, from the language of the 10th April. 1954. the notice, that they have not yet <2) Notification No. 20. datii the gone on strike. 27th April. 1954. An Hon. Member: Nor have they <3) Notification No. 25, dated the fixed the date. 4th May. 1954. Mr. Speaker: Do I understand it <4) Notification No. 27. dated the correctly? 12llh May, 1954. Shri SaUUuui Gapta (Calcutta—South <5) Notification No. 29, dated the East): They have decided to go on 2nd June. 1954. strike. (6) NotificaUon No. 30. dated the Mr. Speaker: Who knows that they 3rd July. 1954. may not revise their decision? So, (7) Notification No. 31. dated the it is premature. 20th July, 1954. Shri Gadgil (Poona Central): Possibi (8) Notification No. 32. dated the lity of a strike. 21st July. 1954. Mr. Speaker: I am not inclined to (9) Notification No. 34. dated the allow adjournment motions on possi 3rd August, 1954. ble contingencies. So, I do not think (10) Notification No. 35. dated the this motion is admissible. If. how 20th August. 1954. ever, the hon. Member wantis to [Placed in Library. See No. S-362/ ventilate certain grievances, he can call the attention of the Minister and 54.] -Government can make a statement of its policy. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE The Deputy Minister of Labour P resentation o r R eports (Shri Abid Ali): Government's Shri B. Das (Jajpur-Keonjhar): Sir, decision in this regard was announc I beg to present the following Reports ed on the 9th of August and there •f the Public Accounts Committee:— after a question was put here in re ply to which we clarified the position (i) Eleventh Report on the on the 1st of September. Hirakud Dam Project; and Mr. Speaker: When was the decis (u) Twelfth Report on (a) ion for strike taken? Fertilizer Deal: and (b) Pashabhai Patel Im^^ements. Shri Sadhan Gupta: Afiier that. Mr. Speaker: If the hon. Member has to bring forth any grievances he MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT can call the attention of the Minister, P roposed strike b y I nsurance and if he likes he can supply the E m plo y e e s information about later developments. In any case, the adjournment motion Mr. Speaker: I have received notice wiU not be admissible—I am clear of an adjournment motion on the on that point. following subject: “The decision of insurance Start Sadhu Guvte: May I make a submission? employees to go on strike to pro test against the Government’s Mr. Speaker: Not on merits, but on refusal - to set up an all^India admissibility. 3497 Demands 28 SEPTXBfBXR 1054 for Supplementary GranU 3498 far 1954-55 Shri SaArn Gapta: There has been in and after the Appropriations Bill a decision of the insurance employees there will be discussion for one hour to go on strike, which must be on fall in prices of food and agri averted. II, after discussion, we can cultural raw materials. The Appro persuade the Gov^nment to lake priations Bill will not take long. It some steps which will avert the ia merely a formal matter and no dis strike I think that is worth-while. cussion is generally allowed on that. In that sense a discussion becomes a matter of great public importance. Shri T. B. Vitlal Rao (Khammam): We can anticipate that the decision Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I was refer- will be carried into effect, as it nor Ang to the slow progress at the mally happens, unless Govemmenx Neiveli Lignite Mines in South Arcot. change their decision on the appoint As everybody is aware, though these ment of the All-India Tribunal. mines contain only inferior quality Therefore, from that point of view, of brown coal. Government, under after the opinion of the House is ex took to work these mines. In the Re pressed, something may emerge which port issued by the Ministry of Pro will make them revise their decision duction last year (page 24, paragraph and which will settle the matter 13) it was said: amicably. “The South Arcot Lignite Pilot Mr. Speaker: We need not argue Scheme which was inaugurated this point. Anyway I feel very clear on the 5th of March 1953 by the that because a decision is taken it Government of Madras is in pro does not necessarily follow that it will gress. The Government of be given effect to. The situation is Madras expect the pilot scheme developing and not a definite one to to be completed by August 1954” day to admit of an adjourtiment [M r. D e p u t y -S peaker in the Chair^ motion. It may equally be argued that a situation which could never Only the other day in reply to a arise perhaps may arise as a result question it was stated that the pilot of discussion in this House. There project has not yet been completed. can be argument both ways. There Sir, I need not elaborate upon the fore, the safer course is not to admit importance of these mines for the this motion at this stage. industrial development of the south. The only colliery which is near-by which could supply coal to South DEMANDS* FOR SUPPLEMEN India is the Singaretii Collieries. It TARY GRANTS FOR 1954-55 is producing only 13 to 14 lakhs of Mr. Speaker: The House will now tons a year, whereas the requirements proceed with the further discussion of South India is aboqt 25 lakhs. So. and voting on Supplementary De unless and until the lignite mines of mands Nos. 83A and 132 for grants South Arcot are developed quickly, under the Control of the Ministry of there will not be any industrial de Production moved on the 27th of velopment at Um South. September, 1954. There are many integrated pro The time available is one hour and blems connected with the working of thirty-four minutes. There are also the lignite mines. Special wagons further demands to be put to the vote have to be consttucted for carrying of the House, 34, 71, 78, 86, 125, 124 this coal from the mines to the and 133, to be moved by Mr. M. C. different places. I do not know what Shah within the time-limit that Is steps are being taken in this direct allotted. ion. I now understand that they After these demands are disposed have deputed some foreign com of. the Appropriation Bill will come panies to go into the whole scheme •Moved with the recommendation of the President. 3499 Demands 28 SEPTKMBES 1954 fo r ,Supplementary Grants 3300 . for 1954-56 [Shri T. B. Vittal Rao] and find out whether it is an econo in terms of giving certain amenities mic one. I cannot understand how to the workers and settdng up at this stage the economics of the standards. But they have not gone working of this mine arises. It has any far m this .direction. For ex been decided to work this mine be ample, though the government col cause the coal that is now obtained lieries realized a profit of Rs. 61 lakhs by the South Indian factories from during 1952-53, what do we find? the Bangal-Bihar collieries costs as They have not spent more than Rs. 18 much as Rs. 70 per tort. There is laldis on amenities for the workers A big .bottle-neck; wagons are not in these two or three years. How are easily available, with the result that we going to house these workers wi^i the coal has m be brought by sea. this paltry sum of Rs. 18 lakhs. . I Whereas iihe Indikan coal which is do not know what is the profit for landed in Chittagong cost only Rs. 50 1953-54, but we are told that the to Rs. ,54 per ton, the South Indian anticipated profits will be Rs. 40 tectories have to pay Rs. 70 per ton. lakhs. So I would strongly appeal This is all the more reason why the and urge upon the Minister of Pro lignite mines of South Arcot should duction to allocate more money for be developed as quickly as possible. this purpose. I would in this conneciiion like to know from the hon. Minister whether Another point is retrenchment in any Indian mining experts or Indian these collieries. The Railways re engineers were ever asked to study quire annually 1 crore tons of coal the possibility of working these for the running of the railways. And mines, before the help of foreign ex the government collieries are produc perts were sought. This is a serious ing only 30 lakhs tons a year. Not problem. There are Mining Engineers only that. Out of these thirty lakhs who are very well off in this industry, of tons of coal, a good portion is they have engineering skill in work matallurgical coal which could be ing mines. We have introduced utilised for better purposes in our the latest working methods of mining country. So we should immediately in Singareni Collieries, Kathagudii:m. put a stop to iihe utilisation of this Why was this entrusted to foreigners? metallurgical coal by the railways. I May I know whether Indian mining have to refer to another aspect of the engineers were appointed to go into matter here. When I had been to this question and whether they have the Bihar Collieries and Dhanbad given a report that they cannot do recently, some trade union leaders it? aproacahedi me and sadd that there Shri B. Das (Jajpur-Keonjhar): is going to be an enormous retrench There are no Indian engineers know ment and that about two thousand ing anything of lignite. people are going to be retrenched. These coUieries can be improved and Shri T. B. Vl^al IUM>r Next I come the production could be increased. I to the government collieries. Now am told that the reqtiiremente of the the ownership has changed. With Railways alons are 1 crore tons of that I think the captive nature of coal a year. and. as I said, our pro this colliery has also changed to duction in government collieries is some extent. It was previously only 30 lakhs tons. So by increasing owned by the RaUways. Now it is the production by opening new pits owned by the Production Ministry. these workers who are threatened The living conditions of the workers with retrenchment could be employed. in these mines is very miserable. As . I would make this appeal l(o the hon. it is, the living conditions of coal Minister. Of course. I have written miners is bad all over. Government to him in this connection, to stop this should be an ideal employer at least retr«;ichment and see that they are 3 ^ 1 Demands 28 SEPTiEGMB®R 1954 for Supplementary Grants 3502 /or 1954-55 all entertained in the new pits that It is true in the initial stages there are likely to be opened. was not as rapid a progress as one would have wished. But latterly, Lastly, I wish to say that I would during the previous few months I like the Government not to be a party am glad to say that quick progress to this Industrial Tribunal. We have has been registered, and if the got me Central Pay Commisslon’i present pace of progress conUinues it recommendations. Those things could is very likely that the experimental be implemented to all. As this Is a project will be completed by the end tribunal appointed by the Govern of this year. ment of India, I would very much like that Government which are own It is true, as the hon. Member has ing these collieries should not be a pointed out, that in the Annual Re party to the tribunal. Let the port of the Production Ministry it tribunal decide whatever it liikes. was said that this project would be Then we shall see whether we should completed by about A u^st, 1954. apply it or not, if the Industrial Tri But owing to reasons beyond one’s bunal gives an award which is more control it has not been possible favourable than what is obtaining to do so. There is one unexpect according to the Central Pay Com ed f eatlire there in the working mission’s recommendations. But let of this project, namely, the water not the Government be a party to the difficulty. Though the water diffi tribunal which the Government itself culty has not yet manifested itself in has appointed. an aggravated form, still the diffi culty is there and one has to re I commend my cut motion to the cognize it. But on all accounts even House. now it is hoped that this experi mental project would be completed by The Minister of Productioii (Sliri the end of this year, as I have in K. C. Reddy): The hon. Member who dicated. Every step is being taken' has spoken just now has referred to both by the Government of Madras three very important subjects. The and the Government of India to see first relates to the Lignite project at that this project is completed at as Neiveli in South India. I am willing early a date as possible. In fact. to say at the very outset that the Government are very anxious tUst Neiveli project in South India and this project* should be pushed thtough its results are of a far-reaching as I indicated at the beginning of significance to the industrial develop my remarks. ment of South India. There can be no two opinions either about the utter Before I go to the second point necessity of that project to be pushed made by the hon. Member. I would through or about the pace at which it like to say that though the Govern should be put throu^. Government ment of Madras is htuidling the pro are of the opinion that every assis- ject now, the GrOvemmelxt of India tence should be given to this project have come to their help and given and that this project should be assistance in several direction^ fot brought to completlpn in stages as the progressing of this elpetimental early as possible. But as the hoDu Mem project. They have soirie ber has admitted, the pilot pro machinery worth about Rs. 13 id ject, that is, the experimental quarry Rs, 15 lakhs. They havt also s^cureki ing project, now goinj; on at N eiv^ hel© 'through thte T.C.A^ They havis is being handled by the Government sanctioned amounts for the drilling of Madras. In other words, it is not operations that are going on there the direct resT>onsibiIity of the Gov at present ' ernment qt India so far as the pro* gzess off the txpaxtiam ^ quarrying So far as the nmiki schebM^is ccm^ pr6]ectt is concern^. cemed, which has got to be finalised Demands 28 SBPTBIIBBR 1954 for Supplei^taryJ^anU 3504 3503 [Shri K. C. Reddyl nical advice or help. It Is In addition after this experimental scheme Is to what our Indian technicians hav* finished we have got to process it done. It Is In addition to their re very carefully. It is true that there port that we have gone to the British has been, if I may say so, an firm under the Colombo Plan for a omnibus decision that full scale project report. After that report Is operation should be taken in hand received, there will be quick progress after this experimental project is in regard to the full scale working of completed. It is true. But when a the lignite mine. I would like to re big project of that kind has to be iterate that the Government are very taken in hand, several preliminaries keen on this scheme, which means have to be looked into carefully and not only so much for South India ^ finalised. In oliher words, a project but also to the entire country. I report has got to be prepared on a would like to assure the hon. Mem very careful basis. It is for the pre ber and the House that no efforts will paration of this project report that be spared on the part of the Gov ^ e services of 'a British firm have ernment of India and also, If I may been requisitioned under the Colombo speak for the Government of Madras, Plan. The report of that firm is ex on the part of the Government of Mad. pected to be in our hands by the end ras, to take this scheme to a stage o i of this year. After that report is fruition with the maximum speed. received, we will give thought to the financing of this scheme, the agency The next point that the hon. Mem through which this scheme has got ber referred to, relates to the Govern to be worked out and other Im ment collieries. He confined himself portant aspects like that. to the unsatisfactory condition of the employees there. He characterised The hon. Member was displeased the conditions as being very miser or asked a query as to why Indian able. He was good enough to con talent was not being made use of in cede that the conditions of workers this connection. It is the poUcy of all over the collieries are bad. But^ the Government of India to make use he wanted, naturally, that the Gov- of Indian talent wherever available emment who owned these collieries: to the maximum extent and only should be model employers. I would where itJ is absolutely necessary that like all employers to be model em the Government of India looks across ployers In this country. I would like its borders for help. In this case, the working conditions of the em there have been one or two com ployees not only In the collieries, but mittees—technical committees— all over India to be improved to a which are manned by Indians. It is large extent, so that there would not true that there is a United Nations be any legitimate grievance on ther expert also. But, in addition to him part of anyone so far as welfare Is there are Indian experts who are al concerned. That Is the i>olicy of the ready in the field there. In addition Government of India as well. So far to that, recently, a few months ago, as government collieries are concern a committee was appointed by the ed, it will be the special responsibility Government of India consisting of of the Ministry of Production to locate, three Indians—two of them are any grievances wherever they exist, technical people—in order to go into stiudy them, and plan for the removal^ certain aspects of the working of that of such grievances, bettering the con scheme. They did submit a report ditions wlthim a reasonable dis and that report has been taken Into tance of time, when the Ministry consideration by the Government of could claim on a just basis that they India, -ft Is 'not as if our technical have improved the conditions to a talent is not made use of, and we simply very appreciable extent, I think the rush into the lap of foreigners for tech measuring rod for tftiis would be less* Demands 25 SEPTEMBKR 1954 for Supplementary Grants 3506 for 1954-55 and less criticism cto the part of the it will solve to a major degree, the opposition there about the unsatis question of housing labourers in factory conditions of labour in these these government collieries. collieries. I may also add that the Labour Ministry have recently sanctioned a He made speciflc reference to the reviled subsidising housing scheme 2iousing conditions. I am free to which stipulates payment of a Iban confess that so far as housing con of 37i per cent, of the actual cost ditions are concerned, we could do of construction or a sum not exceed much more than what we have been ing Rs. 1102 besides a subsidy which doing. It is true that we have got is payable up to 25 per cent, subject certain schemes in hand. It is also to a maximum of Rs. 735 for a house true and it should not be forgotten constructed according to the plans that out of the 29,000 or 30.000 and specifications of the Labour Wel labourers working in these collieries, fare Fund. The above scheme will nearly 20,000 have some kind of be availed of to the extent'possible. accommodation or other. It may not These are the two major schemes that be all to the expectation of hon. Mem we have in view. In addition to bers of this House or my expectations. these schemes, the Ministry of Pro It is a fact that two-thirds of the duction have got a programme of employees have got houses. It building houses for these employees. should not also be forgotten tSat some labour working in these collieries Water supply arrangements in the are what is known as casual labour. collieries are generally considered to That is to say, they are agriculturists be inadequate. Except in the case and they carry on their agricultural of three that are situated in Madhya operations living in their own houses Pradesh and Orissa, the main sources in their own villages. Wherever they of water supply are generally riven are working in our collieries, it is and during the summer months, diffi only by way of casual labour that culty is unavoidable. Steps are being they come here and work. To that taken to improve the water supply. extent, the housing requirements are Though this point was not raised, I mitigated. That is a different matter thought I would do well to refer to altogether. I would like to say. in this as there was some grievance this connection, that I stated on the about it. floor of the House last year when a By and large, as I said in similar supplementary demand came beginning, I share the dissatisfaction up and when hon. Members referred of the hon. Member to some extent to the working conditions in these tnat the living conditions of labourers collieries, that we are going to in are not quite what we all want and tensify and exi>and our programme expect them to be. It will be our for housing in these collieries. Now, endeavour to improve them by and we have got a programme for 1954-55 by, only commensurate with the and even later years. I would like limitations of our resources and to mention this specially. At the not on account of any limitations in instance of the Ministry of Works, our intentions and effort. Housing and Supply, a revised hous ing programme has been drawn up in The other matter to which the hon. which there is provision for the con Member referred, relates to retrench struction of as many as 5752 miners ment of surplus labour in Govern quarters at an estimated cost of ment collieries. This has a very long Rs. 1,43,90,000. This programme is history and it is not necessary for imder consideration in consultation me to go into that history at the with the Ministry of Works, Housing present stiage. Suffice it to say' that and Supply. If this programme goes at one time, the quantum of sur through, as I hope it will go through, plus labour that was assessM to be Demandt 28 SBPTiadBBB 1964 for Supplementary GranU 3508 for 1054-55 [Shri K. C. Reddy] retrenched these collieries stood other aspects which are relevant to a at the huge figure of 5500 or nearly proper consideration of this subject. 6000. That was 2 or 3 years ago. In Even if retrenchment takes place, it fact, a decision was taken by the is the policy of the Government of Government of India that this re India that those who are retrenched trenchment should be given effect to should be found alternative employ from the 1st January, 1953, that is ment. to say, about 2 years ago. But, cer May I, Sir. in this connection make tain technical difficulties intervened— an appeal to my friends on the one need not be sorry about them opposite side that wherever alternative now—and we could not retrench the employment is offered, they should whole number at that time. What is advise the employees—such employees the position today? Today, instead over whom they have got control and of about 600 employees who had to be influence—^in the interests of the retrenched, in the light of a Fact F i^ industry and in the interests of the ing Committee which went thorough employees themselves to avail them ly into the question, we have got the selves of such alternative employment figure—I am giving the approximate and not be doctrinaires, if I may say figure—of 1200 to be retrenched. Why so, saying: '‘Give us employment do we want to retrench them? Not here, or you shall not retrench. If for the love of it. It is not good for you retrench, we shall give notice. any industry, leave alone collieries, There shall be a strike. There shall to have surplus labour. It de be a paralysis of the whole industry.” moralises the workers, if 1 may say I put this suggestion across in all so, and it results in loss to the in humility and as resi^nsible leaders dustry. I had something to do with of labour, I do not think they will the trade union movement in my part fight shy of assuming the necessary of the country. In fact, I was very amount of responsibility in this con closely identified with labour in th« nection and advise the labourers pro Kolar Ck)ld Fields, and I do know perly even though for the time being, very well what retrenchment meant lor the moment, there may be the In mass and to each individual work^ in any industry. That is why apprehension that they may be un we were not very keen or we did not popular with the employees. rush forward to effect this retrench It has been my luck or ill-luck to ment in the beginning of 1953 when have advised labour on some critical we had practically decided to go in occasions when they wanted to go on for thia retrenchment. Well, various a general strike of a very htige factors have crept into the situation magnitude. When the excitement was and today, as I said, instead of five very high* it was given to me to thousand and odd, we have got only advise them: “No. the strike is not one thousand and odd to deei witt. proper on an issue like this. Your conduct must be different” And in the end they found themselves pro It is triae the industrial tribimal ia fited by such advice which I had the consideting this question. We are opportunity to give. awaiting the result of the Indus* trial tribunal, but the hon. Mem Bo, wfaHe I am not i3i a position to bers has given me a broad hint commit myself irrevocably to any that whBtever the decision may statement that there shall be no re be there, we have got to take a de trenchment in axxy circumstances cision of our own and see to It that whatsoever, it shall be my endeavour no wotker is retremched. Well, so to avoid retrenchment to the maxi tar as the wish of the hon. Member mum possible extent in the coUJierles. ISi concerned. I share his wish, but This subject Is still an open one, and we have got also to take into account I would not like to say anything, more 350^ Demands 28 SEPTEMBER. 1954 far Supplementary Grants 3510 for 1964-55 about it. And I hope that whatever step Hon. Members: Yes. the Government of India will be called upon to take ultimately in the li£ht The cut motions were, by leave, of all relevant factors, the decision * withdrawn. would be of a kind that will be accept Mr. Depaty-Speaker: The question is: able both to the employees and to the “ That a supplementary sum not Government. exceeding Rs. 2,000 be granted to the President to defray the chaiiges which No oUher point was made, and I will come in course of payment dur hope that after this explanation the ing the year ending the 31st day of cut motions will be withdrawn by the Mardi,1955, in respect of ‘Cajaltal hon. Member. Outlay of the Ministry of Produc Mr. Deputy-Speafcer; What is the tion’.” attitude of the hon. Member regard The motion was adopted. ing the cut motions? D emand No. 86— E xpen diture on D is Shri T. B. Tittal Rao: Except the placed P erson s cut motion about housing, I withdraw Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Now, we take the rest of the cut motions. up demand No. 86. Shri V G Desb* pande and Shri Rajabhoj. Both of Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Let me deal them are absent. with Demand No. 83A first. Has the Now, the question Is: hon. Member the leave of the House io withdraw his cut motion No. 5? “That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 7,29,000 be Hon. Member*: Yes. granted to the President to de fray the charges which will come The cut motion was, by leave. in course of payment during the withdrawn. year ending the 31st day of March, 1955, in respect of ‘Ex Mr. Dtfpctr-Spe$kar. Now, I sb penditure on Displaced Per put the Demand to the vote of the sons*.” House: The motion was adopted, The Q uestion is: D ebiaud No. 123—P urchases of F ood- *‘That a supplementary sum GRAINS— not exceeding. Rs. 4,36,13,000 b« D emand No. 124—O ther C apital pan ted to the President to defray O utlay op the M in is t r t of F ood the charge which will come in AND A g r icu ltu re course of payment during this year ending the 31st day of Mr. Depnty-Speakefi; Now« I take up March, 1955, in respect of ‘Gov* Demand No. 123. emment Collieries*.” Shri Tulsidas (Mehs&na West): De mands Nos. 123 and 124 together. The motion was adopted, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Demands Nos. 123 and 124 will be taken up toge Mr. Deputy-SnfiakaK: T h ^ X have ther. to take up the cut motions relating to Demand No. 132. The Hon. Mem Motion is: ber is not pressing his cut motioni “TETai a supplementary sum not Nos. 10 and 12. I shall put cut exceeding Rs. 1,31,15,00,000 be grant- motion No. 11 to the vote ot the €fd to the President to deft’ay the House. charges W!iich w in come In course of payment during the year ending The cut motion was negative, the 31st day of March, 1955, in res. Mr. Deputjr-SpMkeK: Has the hon. pect of Tiiichases of Foodgraizis*.^ Member the leave of the House ta Mr. Kelappan. Is he moving his cut withdraw his cut motiona 10 and J2? motion? SEPTEMBIR 1054 for Supplementary Grants 351J1 4 5 II Demands for 1054-55 Shri Slyamnrthi Swami (Kushtagi): Building up of a Central Reserve of Foodgrains ^ Yes, Sir. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What namber? Shri Kelappan (Pomiani): Yes, Sir. Shri Siyamiirthl Swaml: Nos. 31 and I beg to move: 32. “That the demand for a supplemen Mr. Depaty>Speaker: Not 307 tary grant of a sum not exceeding Shri SiTamarthi Swami: No. Rs. 1.31,15,00.000 in respect of Pur chases of Foodgrains be reduced by Failure of Government to Control Rs. 100.” and regulate Sugar Factories Shri Sivamurthi Swami: I beg to Purchase of Rice from Burmla move: “That the demand for a supplemen Dr. Bao (Kakinada): 1 beg to tary grant of a stun not exceedinf^ Rs. 34,70,80,000 in respect of Other move: Capital Outlay of the Ministry of Food and Agriculture be reduced hy *‘Thftt the demand for a supplemen Rs. 100” tary grant of a sum not exceeding Rs. 1.31,15,00,000 in respect of Pur Proper Supply of Fertilizers to chases of Foodgrains be reduced by Villagers Rs. 100." Shri Sivamurthi Swami: I beg to move: Mr. Depaty-Speakef: Demand No. 124. “That the demand for a supplemen tary grant of a sum not exceeding Motion Is: Rs. 34,70,80,000 in resoect of Other Capital Outlay of the Ministry of **That a supplementary sum not ex Food and Agriculture be reduced by ceeding Rs. 34,70,80,000 be gianted to Rs. 100.” the President to defray the charges which will come in course of pay Import of Sugar ment during the year ending the Dr. Rama Rao: 1 beg to move: 31st day of March, 1055, in respect of *Other Capital Outlay of the Min “That the demand for a supplemen istry of Food and Agriculture*.” tary grant of a sum not exceeding Rs. 34,70,80,000 in respect of Other Mr. Gurupadaswamy, Absent: Mr. Capital Outlay of the Ministry of Sreekantan Nair and Mr. T. K Chau- Food and Agriculture be reduced by dhuiy, Absent; Mr. Tulsidas. Rs. 100.” Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Now. both the Sugar Import Policy demands as well as the cot motions will be discussed by the House. Shri Tolaidas: I beg to move: Dr. Bama Rao rose— (ils *'That the demand for a supple Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Shri Tulsidas. mentary grant of a sum not ex I am coming to him. ceeding Rs. 34,70.80,000 in respect ol Shri Talsidas: I refer to demand No. other Capital Outlay of the Ministry 124. It is in connection with the of Food and Agriculture be reduced by Rs. 100.*' sugar import policy of the Govern ment. , Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Mr. Madhao The House knows very well the rea- Reddi, Absent; ^ son why sugar is imported into this • country smce the last two or three Mr. Sivamurthi Swamy. Moving? . years. At one stage, ia 1052, sugar 35X3 Demandg 28 SXPTKMBIR 1814 for Supplementary GranU 3514 for 1954-99 was surplus in this country, and actual I know that the lesser production is ly we exported sugar from this coun not merely due to the sugar policy o l try. At that time when there wag a the Central Government. There is a debate with regard to the reduction considerable blame, to my mind, on the of the excise duty and also subsidis State Governments. They have not ing sugar for export. 1 remember that made any efforts to see that the sugar a warning was given to the Govern cane production in the country in ment not to fritter away the stocks creases so that the sugar production of sugar which was considered as sur can be maintained at a higher leveL plus in the country. Now, Sir, at that time we felt that the prices of Again, we are faced with the situa sugar would come down very much, tion that the consumption in the coun and it was better that the surplus was try today is gone up considerably be exported. It was also felt, and it was cause at the time when the sugar was mentioned in the House, that sugar controlled tlie taste of the people turn should not have been allowed to be ed to the consumption of sugar iusteadi exported, that the surplus sugar of our or khandsari sugar. Today, we. should be kept as a buffer stock. Un have a consumption per year of about fortunately, Sir, sugar has been allow 18 lakh tons, which only a few years, ed to be exported and to my mind back was only about 12 to 13 lakh this siigar stock was frittered away. tons. I do not know how we will be. Further, in next year the production able to reach the production of 18 lakli of sugar was considerably less. There tons wfthtn the next couple of years. are two reasons why the production Efforts have been made to put up new went down. There was a certain factories, but I do not know whether amount of psychology in the country the new factories will be able to com e, that there was too much sugar in the up and the production will be brought country and therefore, to a certain up to the level of our requirements. extent the sugar factories began their Now, Sir, I come ip the question of production much later than usual in Import policy. At present, we import order to reduce the production. This sugar on the basis of tenders invited. reisulted in lesser production in the To my mind, this is all right to the subsequent year. In 1953-54 there was extent that we get our sugar, but the still less production—of course, this psychology in the country that there is was due to the bad crop conditions. scarcity of sugar remains and continues This is only a history as to why sugar to remain because we import sugar to is imported into this country and I the extent of our monthly requirements, only hope that the sugar that is import and, therefore, there is always scarcity ed today in such large quantities will of sugar. The external price of sugar be reduced very much in a few years is about Rs. 17 to Rs. 18 or sometimes to come. Rs. 20 per maund C.I.F. We have an import duty of Rs. 5 per maund. To my mind this is a serious prob lem as we are frittering away our The Minister of Food and Agricultiure foreign exchange to a considerable (Shri Kidwai): No; it is much more. extent. We are today importing sugar —at least in this year we are going Shri Tulsidas: It is Rs. 5 per cwt. to import sugar—^to the extent of Shri Kidwai: It has been increased > Rs. 50 crores. It is all right that we this year. It is now Rs. 8 /2 /- per are in the happy position today that we maund. have our foreign balance of payment in our favour; but, it is a very serious Shri Tulsidas: Actually speaking, the . thing that to the extent of Rs. 50 crores imported sugar, including the duty, will we are sending money outside the coun cost Government about Rs. 27 to Rs. 28 try. This would be much more useful and we are selling sugar at about for the requirements of our capital Rs. 30. I can well understand the hon. goods and other requirements. Minister's intention that if the prices^ 3515 Demands 28 S»PT®M BKE 1964 for Supplementary, Grants 3316 for 1954-55 [Shri Tulsidas] o f sugar come down very much, then The one reascHi why I feel that a there is again the question of increas change of policy is necessary js that ing production of sugarcane. But, there today we import only a lakh tons per is always the psychology; there is month. Sometimes the shipments may -always the blame on the sugar industry not come in time and there is always that they are the people who try to the scare of scarcity of sugar. The shoot up prices saying that there is other thHig which happens is that, when scarcity in the country and unless that tenders are invited, even though the .psychology is changed I do not think that this continuouis shortage of sugar tenders are invited to the extent of 40 will ever be removed. To my mind, or 100 thousand tons, it is known all over the world that India is a pur when the Government is importing to the extent of 18 lakh tons of sugar this chaser of sugar. The enquiries that go year, it would be as well that the sugar from here are not for 100 thousand is allowed to be imported freely, tons only but hundred persons make •even if, supposing, a couple of lakhs enquiries about 100 thousand tuns each, of tons more come in the country, it which multiplies to the extent of a would be serving in future as a buffer- million tons or even more. Therefore, stock. As I pointed out, we have to the price inmiediately goes up in the continue import of sugar for the next external markets and in spite of India 5 or 7 years. I do not think we will being in need of 100 thousand tons be able to reach our production to the only for that month, the world market •extent of 18 lakh tons which is our gets the idea that India is in need of requirement now; perhaps, in the next about a million tons or more. There couple of years our consumntion will fore, if sugar is to be allowed to be go uiD to 20 lakh tons. Therefore, imported and we shall hpive to continue import of sugar will have to be con^ to import sugar to this extent, then it tinued for a very long time. If the is in the fitness o f things that sugar price of sugar in outside countries Is should be allowed to be imjiorted freely. k>w and if that is allowed to be import- Let the sugar import duty be raised ^ here and sold at a lower price, then so that the price of suigar does not go ^ e fear Is that the price of sugar will down below a certain level. I think go down to such an extent that the that should be followed at present. agriculturists will not get the price of Otherwise, I feel the position* will con sugarcane. I can well appreciate that tinue and the price of sugar will con point of view. But the point is. if the tinue to remain high and there will «ugar is allowed to be imported freely always be a scare tlfat stigar is not and the duty can be raised uo to such available in certain parts of the coun a level so that the price of sugar does try. On the one hand, we have com not come down below a certain leveL pletely de-controlled sugar and on the then there will be free import of sugar other we are keeping sugar imports at and there will not be the question of State level to continue a very marginal psychology of scarcity of sugar all the stock in the country, I can appreciate time. If the suimT is allowed to be that during the crushing season there is imported freely, the usual trend is that an enormous amount of sugar. There the import of sugar takes place in much again the Ministry can order a certain ianser quantities. I am not afraid to amount of release so that all the sugar do that because even if sugar is import is not sold out at a particular time ed in very large quantities the price anQ tBWe may be scarcity of sugar. will not go down to that extent because With regard to import poUcy, I think the sutfar duty is raised u«p. Then there sugar can be allowed to be imported for -will be enough of sugar and the sugar some period after the crushing season imported will cost to the importer about Is over so ffiat stigar comes in as large quantities as It is required. Even if the same prloe as it is supposed to be the import takes place In larger quan tnaintiOBed* tities, I dc not see why the prices should 3 5 1 7 Demands 28 SEPTEMBER W54 for Supplementary Grants 35( 8^ for 1954-55 not go down because, as I pointed out, beginning of 1954 seems to he fantas the import duties can be raised or tic...... lowered. In pther commodities, the present trend in the Government policy * Shri Kldwai: £60 and £40 is a fan is that the import or export policy is tastic difference! kept free and the adjustments are done Dr. Rama Rao: The position was dif by duties—export duties or import ferent. At present moment, the duties. I do not see any reason why position as it exists is that a cash price* the same policy should not be adopted of £33 is very high and much higher, with regard to sugar. That is what than what we hear. Now I come to the my feeling is; I hope the hon. Minister other £15 which was credited towards* w i n consider this. the so-calleddebt. Dr. Rama Rao: Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: This seems to- first of all, I want to mention briefly work out to Rs. 300 per ton. about Burma rice ...... Dr. Rama Rao: It is more: it comes* Shri Kldwai: We have left from sugar lo nearly Rs. 440 per ton. to rice. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is stated herie An Hon. Member; We are taking up on page 28 that in all Rs. 84-88 crores^ both together to make it sweeter. were paid for 10 lakhs of tons pur chased by the State—it is in the foot Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Minis note here. ter has got the privilege of Riving sweet things to the House. An Hon. Member: That is the inter Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: It is a costly nal price. privilege. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What was the ~ Dr.~Rama Rao: You know we have price intemally? contracted to import 9 lakh tons of The Deputy Minister of Food and« rice. (Interruptions) We propose to Agriculture (Shri M. V. Krishnappa): cover this in three years. The Bur It would be Rs. 14 or Rs. 15 per maund mese people who are not well known whereas imported rice would be Hs. ZO for their .shrewdness have beaten our or Rs. 22. Government and they have accepted the very liberal proposal to supply the The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. whole rice in the first year...... S. Deshmukh): We are taking it from’* the Central poo) * S>hri Kldwai: Not the whole rice. Dr. Rama Rao: The entire quantity of Dr. Rama Rao: That is, in addition rice is to be supplied at a price of to cash we are giving £15 credit to £48 per ton which is fantastic. I do wards this. I want to mention very not say that because just now our rice briefly about the debt. Burma owed position has become better; I do not us Rs. 48 crores originally and the want to be clever after the event. I accumulated interest was Rs. 24 crores Just want to remind the hon. Minister and this ^^Hiole amount of Rs. 72 crores that in 1953 he went to Burma and is being written off with one stroke of' refused to buy rice at more lh.^ £30 the pen. We ought to collect this debt a ton. If I am right he refused to buy from the British Government which but one year later ...... transferred the debt to us instead of asking J;he British Government to hold Shri Kldwai; I think there is some at least part of it. mistake. We purchased that year 1,50,000 tana of rice at £60 a ton. An Hon. Member: Why should w^- discuss it on the rice question? Dr. Ramm Rao: I stand corrected, but any way it appears the difference in Dr. Rama Rao: This is only part oT price between 1953 and especially the it: this covers a good part of the debt* a « I 9 -Dtmands 28 SBPTEMBIR 1®94 for SuppUmtntary GranU 33*0 for 1984-59 [Or. Rama Rao] ...... (Interruptions) The Rs. 72 croref and have a control on the au«ar which Burma owed us...... mills. The hon. Minister, whatever be his intentions, has no control on the Bfr. Depatj-Speaker: The hon. Mem sugar mills and their owners: that is ber says that the price paid is heavy. the whole trouble. An Hon. Member: They have no con Dr. Rao: It is very heavy. trol on him. , Shrl Kidwai: But it is the debt ques Dr. Rama Rao: If not on him, many tion that he is discussing. of them are important Congressmen Mr. Deputy-Speaker: But he says it and they can influence the Congress ifi included. Party. So much so, the officers who have to carry out the orders of the Dr. Rama Rao: They say that it is * Food Minister are a bit afraid of our gift to Burma; the debt is being tackling this big class of millowners. written off instead of collecting it from It is a real fact because even if you Britain. We are now still getling the pay at Rs. 1-12-0 per maund of sugar 1952 stock from Burma which even cane anfl even if the jdeld of sugarcane 4ifter re-washing does not get fineness comes to near about 9 per cent—^where ...... (Interruptions), as the average yield is more than 9 73 Shri Kidwai: It is very popular. per cent—you can sell—including the cost of production and profits—at the Dr. Rama Rao: I am coming to sugar rate of Rs. 30 per maund and the Gov and I hope that he will do something ernment can easily sell at Rs. 31 or about it. You remember they were Rs. 32. But in this case, I am talking paying Rs. 1-12-0 a maund for sugar of the low-yield sugarcane. If cane and at that price we were able they have proper control over to export a little sugar. Then the Min the sugar mills, they can pay ister, instead of seeing who had got the H higher price for the sugar greatest profit, instead of tackling the cane, give profit to the peasants and the real cause of the high price of sugar millowners, and at the same time, save In the market, namely, the millowners, our foreign exchange also. In fact, got hold of the cane producers...... I f our rice position is satisfactory, we can have much more sugarcane in Shri Kidwai: You have just heard the parts like Andhra. millowner. I P3M, Dr. Rama Rao: He reduced it from But what is the hon. Food Minister Us. 1-12-0 to Rs. 1-5-0 and the result doing? He is not tackling the prob was that the cane growers cut down the lem properly. He is Just strangling area and the peasants lost much, with the peasant. You know the well-known the result that the mills were idle for story. I do not mean to offend any n long time. The crushing came down. community, but there is a story in my "Now we are paying Rs. 52 crores to part which is as follows. A Mussal- foreign countries. Just now, Shri man and a Chettiar were going out on ICilachand pointed out...... the road, and they were caught by rain Shri Kidwai: He is a millowner. on the way; fir.ding no house for shel ter, they got into a small temple dedi Dr. Rama Rao: On that point, I agree cated to a deity or goddess. As the with him that instead of frittering rain continued, they closed the doors, Away our foreign exchange on sugar and slept inside. For want of space— we can very easily produce here—to I do not mean offence towards anybody ithat extent I agree with my hon. the Mussalman pu^ his legs on the -friend. Shri Kilachand. Now I am deity. The goddess could not do any coming to the other point....(Intcrrup- thing. So, she woke the Chettiar 'tiorw). I request the hon. Pood Min and said, will you make him remove ister to raise the price of sugarcane his legs from me. or shall i throttle 3521 Demandt 28 SEPTXMBBR 1954 /or Supplementary GranU 3522 ' for 1054-55 _your throat. The point that I am try Shri JhoBjhoBwala: You have sur ing to make out is that while the hon. passed them alL Minister is helpful ao far as the mill- ^owners and the big aharka are con Ours is a Welfare State. Ours ia cerned. he is Just throttling the pea not a state where Government should sants, like that goddess, and he is take up the role of an industrialist, actually strangling the peasant today. and show profit, apd then say, well* It is not an impossible thing to increase we have made so much profit,by im ' the price of sugarcane. He can easily porting sugar, and therefore, our policy increaseithe price of sugarcane to at is all right. It is a shameful thing; least Rs. 1-9-0. But there is a rumour when the industry has been controlled about it—I do not know how far it from top to bottom, for the last twenty- is true^that he is going to cut it one years, with what face are Gov ►down. ' ernment coming today and saying that they are importing sugar to the tune Shri Kidwai: I have said that. of 50 crores worth? When they laid Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: You are going down this policy, and when they gave -tc reduce it? protection to this industry, they had some programme before them, namely, Dr. Banui Rao: I do not know what that India will be self-sufficient within he said. I do not know whether he is such and such a time, and they had ; going to accept Rs. 1-9-0 or reduce it thought that they would be self-suffi still further. cient by then. The Planning Com mission, whether it was their prema There was a time, you remember, when next to cloth, sugar used to be ture judgment or a mere guess work the biggest item of foreign import, and whatever one may call it, became very we were practically helpless. But now Jubilant, and this Government also became so very jubilant, took pride conditions have changed. We cannot saying, what the Planning Commission only produce our entire reauirements, l)ut we can export also. had thought 6f achieving in 1954, they have achieved in 1952. I would like In this connection. I want to say a to know from the hon. Minister on word on what Shri Tulsidas has said what basis he had come to that con in regard to the free import of sugar. clusion. But do they not go deep into Tor goodness's sake. I would not ask the matter and find out what is hap the hon. Minister to allow it: and if pening? Should they not find out what there is any small credit that he gets, the high sugar production in 19.52 was is on this. Though he is unable to due to? If there were certain circum handle the millowners. at least he is stances which had given us more sugar .able to supply—I must give him that in that year, did the hon. Food Min • credit—sugar al a reasonable price, ister try to find out what those 'thouisrh at the expense of the poor circumstances were ? Why did he not ipeasant. If we allow this free import, allow that policy to continue? ;and allow the millowners to have a It is often said, just as my hon. “free time as usual then the poor pea- friend Shri Tulsidas has said, that ijants as well as the poor consumers whenever there is anything. wrong, it 'Will be at the mercy of these mill- is the industrialists who are to be «owners and these big merchants. blamed. If there is less sugar pro Shri Jhanjhonwala (Bhagalpur Cen duction, the industrialists are blamed tral): I congratulate the hon. Food and it is said that the fauJt lies on the ’Minister on his policy of import. By industrialists. They are regarded as ;adopting this policy of import, he has exploiters. I afn*ee with those who say proved himself to be the greatest in like th^t. But here the exploiters were dustrialist. not only the industrialists, but three elements combined: and the worst ex Shri Kidwai: You are giving a cer- ploiter was Government. In 1933, when tiflcate? they gave protection to this industry. Demands 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 for Supplementary Grants 3523 . for 1954-55 IShrl Jhunjhunwala] they levied a cess of one pice on sugar You were there in U.P. at that time,, cane, and said that about fifty per cent and the cess was raised to 21 annas. of this cess—I do not exactly remember Now, you say that because there is the the percentage—would be utilised lor Constitution, therefore, we do not call the development of cane. it cess, we call it tax. Shri Kidwai: Who said it? My point is that in India, we ca » produce sugar at a competitive rate. Sfari Jhunjhunwala: It was the Gov But here Instead of there beitig only^ ernment that levied the cess. I do not one exploiter, there are three exploiters^ know whether you were at th^t time and the greatest exploiter is the Gov in Government or not. I think it was ernment which does not perform its: the State Grovernment. and probably duty, charges cess on a particular pro you were in Uttar Pradesh at that time. mise and then diverts it as a sort o f Shri Kidwai: I was born there. That revenue and utilises it for some other is correct but I was not in any Gov purpose. Now, if the sugarcane pro ernment. I mav inform the hon. Mem ducers cannot get sufficient price ber that there is no tax or cess today. simply because there is no good out* He will not find it in the Constitution. turn per acre...... Therefore, what was possible in 1933 Dr. P. S. Deshnmkh: Is the hon. Mem is not possible today. There is no cess ber in order in criticising the State now. People call it cess, as it was Government who are not here to defend called cess before. It is a State tax themselves against these accusations? that the Constitution allows them to have, without any regard as lo whether Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Mem sugar is developed or not. ber can say it carefully. Shri Jhunjhunwala: Whether it is & Shri Jhunjhunwala: I will now pro cess or a, tax or whatever it is, my ceed with the greatest care. My hon. point is that Government have been friend. Dr. Deshmukh. has said that it the worst exploiter, and they have is a State subject: otherwise, they stood in the way of the development would have taken some precaution. Here of this industry, instead of trying to I would like to ask one thing. You help this industry. In the beginning, have been thinking of rationalising the they had given us an assurance that sugar industry. the cess is being charged for develop Shri Kidwai: Who has been thinking? ment of the sugarcane. It was said, we shall produce sugarcane which will In Shri Jhunjhunwala: If youi are not a way give us more turnover, and there thinking so. then leave the cultivator will be more sucrose in sugarcane. But free, leave the industry free, charge compare that time with today. Now you whatever you like, and then you caxr are getting three annas per maund as say: ‘Well, who it is who is thinking?^ cess, or as tax. as the hon. Minister Yesterday, the Commerce and Industry Bays. Minister said: ‘Well, we are not na Shri Kidwai: As the Constitution tionalising industries. But we are con says. trolling the industry'. Controlling an- industry amounts to a better way o f Shri JhanlhiiBwala: Whatever you nationalisation. I quite agree with him: may rail it. whether the Constitution I do not differ from him at all. But says or somebody else says it, now here they have totally failed. Wliatevcr you are taking protection under the my friend, Dr. Deshmukh, may sajr* Conatitution for thi!i levy. The Consti that it is a State subject and it is the tution was framed in its draft form Id State’s concern, now it is the Central 1947, and even before that you had Government who have taken upot> raised the c^ss to two annai and six themselves the responsibility for fixing* pie*. the price of cane, for fixing tibe price o f ^ < 2 ersonal interest, and they discharge "A provision of Rs. .3,50.000 their duty. was made during the financial Shri Kidwai: I agree with you. year 1963-54 for payment of com pensation on export of about 6316 Shri Kelanuoi: At the time of the tons of sugar during 1952-53 a? a presentation of the Budget, the defi result of tbe Government's deci'- cit of sugar was considered to be aion to release sugar for export 3.8 lakhs tons. Now, it is 6.9 lakh at a reduced price, the reduction tons. I do not know what it will be being not more than Rs. 2 per by tbe end! of the financial year. The • maund. Out of this sum, only Ministry do not seem to know their Ha. 53,304 could be paid upto own mind abo»t this question. 31st March 1954 as tbe Question 445 L .S.D . 5 <27 Demands 28 SEPTEMBER 1964 for Supplementary Grants 352S for 1954-55 [Shri Kelappan] Shrl Ramachandra Beddl (Nellorei. of the admissibility of the pend Sir, I have very few observations tu ing dabms could not be finalis make. It is evidently due to the ed by that date. A sum of Rs. large import of rice from Burma 2.23 lakhs is now required to be there was a reduction in the price o f paid during ^he current financial rice in India. year... Shrl Kldwai: Sir, if we import rice Bhrl Kldwai: There is no export in at very high prices, as it is said we the current financial year. do from Burma, then why should! the price of cheaper rice go down? Mr. Deputy-Speaker; This is only Shri Ramachandra Reddl: The very the balance of the (previous year. fact that there is a large stock o f That was in connection with export. rice available in the country gives a That was a different policy, of ex porting when there was sufficient dofwnward trend to pri(cesl in the market. stock here at a reduced price. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The reserve Shri Kelappan. What I said was is intended for the purpose of keep^ that the Government had to pay Rs. ing down the prices and when prices 2 lakhs and odd to subsidise the sugar soar up the stocks would be released. that was exported. The shortage of sugar^ I am afraid, is more imaginary Shri lUmachandra Reddi: I am only than real. Even if there is a short tryins to point oat the plight of the age now, it can be only a temporary rloe gitowers. Between lust year’s phase and it can be made up without prices and this year’s prices there resorting to imports. If the cane seems to be a variation from 15 to 20 growers are nai'd an economic price, per cent downward. the production of cane will certainly shoot up. Moreover, I want the I have one Mttle doubt to be cleared Government to realise that sugar is iwdth regard to the imporfl of rice. not a staple ^ood like rice or wheat. Large stocks of rice from Burma are Sir. there are people hi the villages purchased and imported into India who do not take any sugar at alL and also large stocks of rice are It was only after the villagers ac puifchased in the surplus districts quired the habit of tea-dWnking that and are stored up. I have got my they have taken to the use of sugar. own doubts whether we have got Even if there is shortage of sugar, sufficient storage facilities to store up I caimot understand! why we should all thesef stocks purchased!. If there import Rs. 50 crores worth of sugar. are not such facilities in cities or the Only a fraction of this amount will be headquarters of the dettclt States, enough for subsidising small produc such storage facilities can be secured tion \mits tQT making sugar from locally in the surplus districts and palm jui\:e. It will supply the need stocked there. and also provide work for thousands Mr. Depnty-Speaker: They are of peoi^e and will go a long way to building granaries at a cost of two solve the problem of unemployment. crores of rupees. , We are short of ever so many things. This unrestricted imnort is the remedy Shri Bamactaandra Reddi; Before which the Britishers adopted. They they thought of building up stocks, had a very 90ti corner for the consu before they thought of purchasing large mers in this country. Shortage, I be stocks of rice from elsewhere and lieve, must be the incentive for increas stocking them they should have ed? production and must not be an ex thought of building up these graaarlM cuse for enhanced import When they are importing in the form of rice, there its every possibility of With these words, i commend my the rice getting deteriorated much cut motion to the House. more quickly than if it is in th© form 3 5 2 9 Demands 28 SEPTEMBER 19M for Supplementary Grants < 3530 /or 1954-56 of paddy, li there is any possibiUty large quantities of rice -were thrown of importing either from Burma or out or were sold in the market and, from the surplus districts to the de probably, it is the lot of the poor peo ficit (Ustricts, it must bo In the form ple to take the deteriorated quality of paddy and not so much in the form rice. ol rice because rice deteriorates even within a period of two or three months It is said that some one lakh tons if it is in the polished state. If it is of sulphate of ammonia are going to impolished, probably, the keeping be imported or have been imported. quality will be longer. But, what It is already known that large quan prevents the Government fiom import tities of sulphate of ammonia oro- ing paddy and not rice, so tliat what diiced internally are available and ever we purchase from outside or not disposed of. When that is the from the internal market might be position, there is no meaning in im kept on for a longer period without porting. being attended to and without having Shri Kidwai: This was the position the necessity of removing the weevils in 1952. In 1952. we had surplus of etc?, lliis policy has been pursued sulphate of ammonia and we found for a long time and I have reason it difficult to store it. Because in to doubt that a large amount of de 1952 this was the position, you can terioration has set in and large quan not say, ‘why are you importing in tities of rice have to be thrown out 1954’. when there is hardly any stock or, probably, dumped upon the poor with us. consumer who could not afford to get it from elsewhere. Shri RanUkchandra Reddi: i dc not know, Sir, how the production figures Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Is it rice with will compare with what has been out husk that is imported? now said by the hon. Minister for Shri Kidwai: It is rice without husk. Pood. I may inform the hon. Member that last year when we tried to export Shri Kidwai: I did not say anjrthing some paddy from Orissa and also from about production. Andhra, the State Governments and the millers protested that we are Shri Ramachandra Reddi: I would taking away their income. like to say that today there may not be any surplus stocks of ammonium Shri Ramachandra Reddi: I am also sulphate. But Whether the offtake of coming to that point. That is why I ammonium sulphate this year will be suggested that storage facilities may the same as of last year or whether be securedf internally in the surplus next year the offtake will be the same districts so that when that rice is as this year in view of the falling required elsewhere, the paddy can be price of foodgrains. dehusked and exported in the form Shri KidwAi: It is much more. of rice, instead of taking the stocks in the form of rice and storing them. Shri Ramachandra Reddi; In regard It is much better to store them in to this sulphate of ammonia there the surplus districts themselves and seems to be a mania. then exporting them in the form of rice after d'ehusking such quantities Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: It is a very as are required from time to time. good manisa. The present policy seems to be pur Shri Ramachandra Reddi: i would sued without having an eye on the like if the hon. Minister would under quality of rice th6t they are finally stand whether this mania is good or distributing to the consumer and with bad. out having a proper appreci*ation of the position of the consumer in that An Hon. Member; Mania or megalo respect. We often hear that very mania. 3531 » Demands 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 for Supplementary Grants 3532 for 1954-55 Slirl Ramacli^iidra Reddi: I would dition of the sugarcane grower will only suggest to the hon. MiLister that be further red!uced. There has been some investiKation should be made a clamour both m North Indi^ and Into the products that are grown with South India that there must be an the aid of sulphate of ammonia. I ’nave appreciation of the sugarcane prices, Ifrave doubts, if there is a chemi*cal which unfortunately the Govermrtent analysis of the grains that are produc is not able to appreciate very much. ed with the aid of sulphate of am There has been not a mere agitation monia or of the vegetables that are but a real feeling that the Central produced with the aid of that, there Government i*s not treating the sugar may be something which may hsive cane growers well. On the other some harmful effect on the human hand, it is pursuing a policy of re organism and human health. I w ould ducing the sugarcane prices and there only suggest that a scientific investi by affecting the sugarcane cultivator gation might be made and that the both the owner of the land, who is peoplte should be assured, that fur the tiller of the land, as well as the ther use—or rather indircriminate use tenant suffer on account of this reduc —of sulphate of ammonia would not tion in prices or further reduction of in any way affect human health. sugarcane prices. Just a word about the import of In last week’s Madras papers I have sugar, Sir. It is very unhappy that seen that there has been a slight ap the Government of India should think preciation Of the extent of sugarcane of large imports of sugisr. While we acreage, but that should not delude were promised last year tliat there us into feeling that everything is all is a large surplus of sugar in India right in South India and that the which has to be or can be exported mere fact that there is an appreciation out of India, and* we all felt very in the acreage of sugarcane means glad that sugar production has in an appreciation on the part of the creased and that the sugarcane sugarcane grower that he is able to grower’s position is also going to be put up with the reduced prices and, improved. In 1954. we see lust the as such, he can sustain himself. On reverse of it. We are going to im the other hand, we have to consider port several lakhs tons of sugar which in whali lareas such appreciation of is going to affect not only the in sugarcane acreage has been there and ternal consumer but also—in a way in what areas it has not been there. —the productive capacity of our sugar Probably, the appreciation of sugar miils. While I do not very much ap cane area seems to be more in places preciate any attack on the sugar mills...... where there are no sugar factories and we have yet to know whether Shri Kidwai: Of course, not. there has been an increase in the sugarcane area in pUces covered by Shr* Ramachandra R ed^ : ...... I sugir factories in South India, The would suggest that the grower’s posi SISMA formula, no dV>ubt, helos the tion must be taken care of. We have cane grower to some extent, but in known that in 1953 there has been actual working, there seems to be a a 25 per cent, reduction in thii cane loud noise against that also. prix:es and I am told that there irright be a further reduction. I do not know Shri Kidwai: I have not heard any. what the present policy of the Gov ernment is. Shri Ramachandra Reddi: The deaf man hears nothing, and as long as Shri Kidwai: To reduce it further. ^ ^ ^ 3fnft tf ^ 5fVf 3R7 9T qifmft ^ «f»TW«r # I ^ ?ir i W MI, ^ hnnw ^ V w c 3ri*? qf^ t; Against the total expenditure of Ks. 52-66 crores provided for during a [ D emand No. 130—C apital O utlay or Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question. “That a supplementary sum not is: exceeding Rs. 3,50,000 be granted ...That the Bill to authorise pay to the President to defray the ment and appropriation of certain charges which will come in course further sums from and out of the of payment during the year end Consolidated Fund of India for ing the 31st day of March, 1955, the service of the financial year in respect of ‘Scientific Research*.” 1954-55, be taken into considera D emand No. 130—C apital O u tlay op tion.” THE M in is t r y of L abour The motion was adopted. “That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 4,00,000 be grant Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Now we wilP ed to the President to defray the take up the clauses. •Introduced with the recommenda tion of the President. J543 Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 3544 Raw Materials [Mr. Deputy-Speaker] The question is: will stand. Shri Asoka Mehta will nave fifteen minutes. The hon. Minis ‘That clauses 2 and 3, the Sche- ter will have fifteen minutes. That • dule, clause 1* the Title and the means thirty minutes. The rest of tile Enacting Formula stand part of Members will have three minutes the Bill.*' each, as there are many hon. Mem The motion was adopted, bers wanting to speak. ^Clauses 2 and 3, the Schedule^ An Hon. Member; We must have .clause 1, the Title and the Enact- two hours. :ino Formula were added to the Bill. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I am helpless in the matter. The time has been ;Shri M. C. Shah: 1 beg to move: fixed. Hon. Members do not raise the “That .the Bill be passed." matter earlier. They must have raised It earlier. The time available is one Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question hour. The next is Shri V. P. Nayar’s .is: motion. If that is to be put off... “That the Bill be passed/’ Dr. Krishnaswaml: It can be. The TTiotion was adopted. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: But he must agree. JFALL IN PRICES OF FOOD AND AGRICULTURAL RAW MATERIALS Shri T. B. VltUl Rao (Khammam): How can that be put off? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The House vwill now proceed with the one hour Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There is diffe discussion on Fall in prices of food rence of opinion. and agricultural raw materials. Mr. Kumari Annie Mascarene (Trivan^ ..Asoka Mehta. drum): I oppose putting it off. Shri A. M. Thomas (Emakulam): ; Sir, I wish to make a submission. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Very well. AU This subject is of vital importance to ladies are opposed to putting it off. ..the country, and in one hour’s time Mr. Asoka Mehta. we can only pay scant attention to it _ I request that two hours* time may be Shri Asoka Mehta (Bhandara): . allotted to it. There is a general fall in the prices of agricultural products. According to Dr. Krishnaswaml (Kancheepuram): the Economic Adviser’s Series, the in We can sit up to 7 o’clock in the dex number of food articles (with r evening. August 1939 as the base) which stood Mr, Deputy-Speaker: One hour has at 381-9 in January 1954 feU to 348-1 been fixed already. on 10th July, 1954. The index num ber of industrial raw materials fell Dr. Krishnaswami: It is such an from 481*8 in January, 1954 to 416-5 important subject that it will be diffl- on 7th August, 1954. There was no . cult to do even bare justice in one corresponding faU in the iniiices of . hour. semi-manufactured articles and manu Mr. Deputy-Speaker: We find It factured articles. The index number of difficult to gather quorum here even the former was 361.5 in January, 1954 , at five o’clock. and 352 on 7th August. And the latter Dr. Krishnaswaml: It is full now. rose—while the indices of agricultural products have been faUing the index Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It will be number of manufactured articles Tj poorer still afterwards. One hour rose—from 364-3 in January, 1954 to 3545 Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 3546 Raw Materials ^76.1 on 7th August* 1^54. The dispa I do not know whether the Food rity between the prices ot food arti Ministry committed a minor indiscre cles and industrial raw materials on tion or not. But, I am anxious to Ihe one hand and of semi-manufactur- know from the Minister here what is -ed articles and manufactured articles the policy of the Government in this on the other is increasing. And this matter. Was this price support an in should cause serious concern to all our dividual expression of a Minister’s people. Ovei the period of April to opinion, was it a temporary aberration July, that is in the last three months on his part or was it a firm, definite alone, there has been a fall of nearly policy. Government themselves admit atiy points in the price of industrial that agricultural prices are not show raw materials and about thirty-flve ing the usual firming up that is to be C»oints m the price of food articles. seen, that is normally discernible in this season. Are the Government go [P andit T h ak u r D as B h aroava in the ing to provide the necessary backbone Chairl to the prices or this is merely a tem porary aberration as the Quarterly ^ pjtf. Economic Report points out, which What is this due to? And what are was done without Cabinet considera the effects and consequences of this? tion or any Government decision in The Juiy issue of Agricultural Situa^ the matter? tion in India tells us that **An impor Further, there is an interesting fea tant feature of the price position in ture of the situation which deserves June was that unlike the past, there our consideration. The Eastern Eco^ was no firming up of the prices of rice nomist has pointed out recently that and millets despite the setting in of there is a marked gap, a wide gap the olT-season in that month. between wholesale prices and retail prices. The Eastern Economist point “ In the case of wheat, some fall ed out some time ago that while there in prices was natural after the has been a general fall in the wheat harvesting of the new crops in and rice prices in the wholesale mar 1954, but the fall was accentuated kets, the consumer has been paying in June and at places, market about Rs. 14 a maund for wheat and went below Rs. 10 per maund. Rs. 20 to Rs. 45 for a maund of rice. Consequently, the Government of These prices do not indicate the exis India instructed the State Govern tence of plenty on a scale as would be ments of Punjab, the U.P. and an improvement on the levels prevail Rajasthan to step into the market ing until 1949-50, though the consumer and buy wheat at Rs, 10 per has certainly felt a perceptible change maund in case the market prices in the conditions since 1950. While in these States tended to fall be the wholesale prices have been falling, low that level.” there has been no corresponding fall in the retail prices. What is the mean I would have been happy if this price ing of this? What are the implica support had been given as a part of tions of that? It means that the fall the Government policy. In the latest in prices does not benefit the consu number of the Quarterly Economic mer. It means further that the agri Report^ that high-powered journal, culturist is being penalised not to the which costs Rs. 100 per issue, we are advantage of any consumer, but to the told: benefit of the middlemen. This seems ''It is no longer a secret that a to be the result of the policy of the minor indiscretion ‘ was committed Government. I would like to know by the Food Ministry in proposing what the Government have to say on agricultural support without Cabi this matter. net consideration or any Govern A further aspect of this question ment decision In the matter. ha? been discussed in a recent issue^ 3547 Prices of 28 SEPTEBCBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 354ft Raw Materials . [Shri Asoka Mehtal of the Agricultuml Situation in India much below the amount available in where it has been pointed out that small countries like Turkey* Yugo«^ the recent fall in prices of agricultuTai slavia or even Philippines. It is almost commodities is a permanent feature, one-twentieth of what is available in is likely to be a permanent feature, of Japan. When it is realised that 70 per our economy. The journal argues that cent, of our people depend on agricul the marked improvement in produc ture, and that the slowly returning tion has led to an increase in the stability,—the much advertised stabi marketable surplus and in an easing lity and flexibility of our economy, for of the price situation, enabling the which the Government take so much Government to make further relaxa credit, which the Reserve Bank haa^ tions in food control. It is surprising announced with fanfare in its recent that the Government journal describes report—the stability and flexibility of the present situatioL. when the agri our economy are ultimately dependent culturists are seriously disturbed by upon increasing production of agricul a market fall in prices as an easing tural prices, the seriousness of the of the situation. If this easing of the situation, the implications of the deve situation is likely to have far-reaching loping situation become obvious. effects on the future trend of agricul tural prices, its effects on rural areas In this connection, I would like to and on the supply position of agricul sound a note of warning. I would tural production is also likely to be a like to register my protest against the significant matter. tendentious, mendacious propaganda and arguments that have been carried an by the vested interests and capita The situation has already become lists in this country. The Easterm serious in wheat. According to the EconomisU on 10th September wrote: Directorate of Economic Statistics, of the Union Ministry of Food and Agri “The Indian farmer has hither culture, the all-India final estimate ol to practised a high degree of in cereals in 1953-54 puts the area and tense culture even though he had production at 210 million acres and to share his produce with the 56 million tons as against 203 million landlord and the State. Hereafter, acres and 49 million tons, in the par while falling prices will reduce tially revised estimates for 1952-53. his marginal returns, the abolition This shows an increase of a little over of landlordism wiU increase his 7 million acres or 3*61 per cent in marginal returns. This, coupled area and 7 million tons or 14 per cent, with the fact that his marginal in production over the last year. In f^sts automatically ndjust to fall wheat crops however, the situation is ing prices of agricultural commo very different, and it is very disturb dities, should leave one in na ing. In the wheat crop, the parallel doubt that production will remain figures show an increase in area of ] .8 unaffected by falling prices.*’ million acres or 7*5 per cent, the in crease in production is 4,00,000 tons It is absurd to suggest that the elimi* or jiist 5.5 per cent. In other words, nation or abolition of landlordism will while the production in cereals Is in any material fashion reduce the more than proportionate to the in burden on the back of the tiller. After crease in the area, the production in all, landlordism is not being eliminat wheat in spite of favourable weather ed without a high amount of compen conditions is less than proportionate. sation. The burden of the compensa The situation is further worsened by tion will have to be borne by the poor the fact that institutional agricultural cultivator. Again, it needs to be re credit in India is meagre and miserly. membered that the farmer is interest It is disconcerting to find that instl- ed in the ratio of the prices he receives , tutionai agrlcultuTal credit in India is and the prices for his goods he pays 3 549 Prices of 28 SBPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 3550 Raw Materials for the articles that he buys. In other Another interesting feature df the words, the crucial question is the lood situation is that food consump question of parity between agricultural tion m most areas has not kept pace and industrial commodities. The with increasing production, even capitalists are interested, and they though there is immense scope left for Jiave been arguing again and again such improvement. Recently, The that it is necessary, that it is in the Economist pointed out the seriousness interests of industrial development of the situation: ^hat prices of agricultural raw mate “Nutritionally, the rich are get rials should fall. They also suggest, ting ricner and at least some of was pointed out by my hon. friend the poor ai‘e getting poorer, and ^hri M. S. Gurupadaswamy yesterday, the poor in the context have an they are inviting our attention to the uncomfortably narrow margin race between profits and wages and between their present standards they set up an alarm against alleged and actual famine.” jrising of wages at the expense of pro- iits. The capitalists know that the If our food prices continue to fall, Government are only too anxious to if our consumption also lags behind subsidise the capitalists and give all because of lack of purchasing power, Ihelp. They want to exploit the work we shall be confronted with a situa ers. They want to have all kinds of tion where all our talks of progress assistance from th> exchequer so that and prosperity will sound hollow in they may be able to build up the In the ears of our people. dustrial edifice on it and have it under This question of price parity is of their stranglehold. It is this attitude crucial importance because we are on which is reflected here in our country the eve of, we are moving towards, in the interested propaganda that is the elaboration of the Second Five 'being carried on by influential capita Year Plan; and in the second Plan we lists. are told that the accent wiU be on in But, the question of price parity is dustry. So many of our colleagues are of supreme importance. It is unfortu dreaming of the rapid industrialisa nate that we have no systematic sta tion of our country. Rupees 3,000 tistics on the subject. We find, Sir, crores will be spent on industrialisa tthat the price parity is working in tion. From where are the resources favour of the agriculturists in Japan. needed for this development going to I find that the price parity is working come? Under capitalist development, in favour of the agricuturists in some the peasant and the peasant always o f the countries of Europe. But wha^ has been made the base on which the is the position in India? We have no industrial structure has been built. :flgures. All that I could find from Out of his blood, out of his bones ithe F.A.O. Year Book on food and have resources been found for the agricultural statistics for 1953 were economic development, for the indus some scrappy figures referring to trial expansion of countries. Who Orissa and Assam, and on the basis of does not know? Those who have read these figures all that I can say is that the annals of the industrial revolu the price parity is movfng against, is tion in Great Britain will bear me out becoming more and more adverse to, when I say that true to their policies the agriculturists in our economy. I of enclosure, the peasants were not would like to underscore and support only deprived of land, of liveli the advice that has recently been hood, but they were driven into igiven by Prof. Black to the Govern factories where they were ruth ment of India that statistics on price lessly exploited. And how has the parity should be collected as early as Communist economic edifice been possible, so that we may know where built up, do we not know? Those of cxactly the peasant stands in our de- us who are familiar with the history nreloping economy. of the Soviet Union for the last thirty Fall in Prices of 28 SBPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 355*. Raw Materials IShri Asoka Mehta] years know how cynically price parity In this connection, mention has to was exploited against the peasant, be made about the increased imports. how collectivisation was used, how the I am surprised that while food prices whole process of collectivisation and are falling, while price support is not statisation of agriculture was brought available, the Minister goes in for about in order to rob the agriculturist large-scale import of foodstuffs. I d o of his surplus. This country of ours» not want to repeat the discussion that this Gandhi’s India, this India that has taken place here. It is surprising had been shaped by the peculiar tra that rice Imports have been increased ditions of our national movement will suddenly and want only from 5*4 lakhs- not permit you, even if you desire, to to about 9 lakhs, and wheat import#- exploit the peasants, to build up the from 6 lakhs to 0*58 lakhs. I f industrial strength of this country. you want to build up buffer That is the reason why we have been stocks in this country, why don’t demanding that the pattern of indua- you do something to provide the trial development in this country must necessary price support to our eco be very different from what you are nomy? Why don’t you bring about a trying to bring about—^you and your reduction of price parity in our coun colleagues. try? Why don’t you give the agricul turist the feeling that for the first time* in the history of economic develop^ The Minister of Food and Agricul ment, he will have a different deal, ture (Sbri Kidwai): How do you he will have an honest deal, a deal know? which neither capitalism nor commu nism has given him. It is that chal lenge that history poses before you and it is to that challenge that Gov Shri Asoka Mehta: We shall insist, ernment has to answer we shall demand, we shall see to it that the pattern of industrial develoj^- Shri A. M. Thomas: I am glad that ment in this country is different. But my friend Shri Asoka Mehta has- you are deliberately allowing the price brought forward this subject for dis parity to go against the agriculturist cussion, himself a trade union leader. so that you may find the wherewithal for building up your strength, the Shri Kidwai: But I hope not with- strength that we do not care for, the the vehemence with which he spoke. strength of monopolists, the strength of exploiters, so that the poor may Shri A. M. Thomas: It is generally’ become poorer than they have been understood by the vast majority of so far. That is why this question of our people that if there is a slight dis price parity is of supreme importance, turbance to the Industrial structure,, and we want the Government of India to the capitalist, or to the industrial to come forward and tell us what is labour, then that will shake even the- their policy on this question of price foundations of Government, but in a policy. There are no statistics. There matter in which 69-8 per cent of our are no policies. All that I can say population is concerned, Government! is that there is need for a clear state is rather cold to the reactions of the* ment by* the Government both as re agricultural population to any matter gards policy as also the machinery of policy that is followed by the Gov for the implementation of price parity; ernment. and I want the policy of the Govern The stabilisation of agricultural ment, not the indiscretion of a Minis prices is a primary duty of the Gov ter; I am anxious to know from the ernment since vast majority of our Government what their policy is on people are dependent on. agricultures this subject. About a year back the hon. Food 3553 Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 3554r Raw Materials Minister stated: **You will not have that have occurred in different parts of to worry about black market prices. the country, perhaps that estimate You may eat as much as you can. may not coyne true, but even then our There will not be any difficulty/' He problem is... even warned a year back; ‘‘Now the The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. problem is going to be the problem of S. Deshmukh): Those figures are ac a fall in agricultural prices.’* It was tuals of last year. then thought that it was rash opti mism on the part of the hon. Food Shri A. M. Thomas: Perhaps you Minister. But from the figures that may not get the very same figure this^ have been quoted by Shri Asoka year, 1954-55. Mehta we And that it is going to be Shri Kidwai: You wiU get. true. , Shri A. M. Thomas: But the problem The hon. Food Minister also stated is how we will be able to absorb that he had got certain plans to guar the marginal accretion to production antee a minimum price to the produ cer. That suggestion of the hon. Food without violent price fluctuations. Minister, I am sorry to note, was not That is the problem which the Gov favourably considered by the business ernment has to take into considera interests. They said that the cost of tion. And I would say, I would plead living index was already high and with Shri Asoka Mehta that the Gov that if the Government guaranteed a ernment must have a price support minimum price to the producer, then programme, and only that will save there might not be any fall at all in the poor peasant who has been ex the cost of livinff index. It is a mis ploited for long. take to suppose that if there is a fall Shri V. G. Deshpaiide (Guna): in agricultural products, there will be There is conflict of interests inherent a corresponding fall in the cost of liv hi this problem of the prices of ing index. We may be able to note agricultural products. We find that from the figures that even if the pro in the urban area, the middle classes ducer prices come down steeply, that and the labour classes are affected, if will not make much difference in the the prices rise high, particularly in level of the cost of living index. That respect of the foodstuffs. In rural' is a fact which the Government has to areas, and amongst the agriculturists, bear in mind. in particular, if the prices fall, we find that there is unrest and even de Then, difficulties were also pointed terioration in the economic structure* out by the business interests, difficul of the whole society, as we have seen ties which were not even put forward generally. People have not realised^ by the Government, regarding storage that out of the population of 70 per facilities if the Government took over cent, which is engaged in agriculture all the surplus stock and guaranteed a in this whole country, nearly 48 per minimum price. So that, my only cent, are land-owning cultivators, submission to the Government is that and only 22 per cent. are landless Government should not be influenced labourers. Therefore, iSne majority of by the fears that have been expressed the Indian population is interested in by the capitalist interests, by the agricultural prices. industrial sector but. should form a bold policy in this matter of having Of course, ‘agricultural prices* are stabilised prices for our food crops not exhausted by the prices of food and other industrial raw products. It stuffs only. There are other com has been pointed out by Shri Asoka modities also, which are required for Mehta that even in the case of rice industry. We have seen how to the Itself in 1953-54 an * additional produc detriment of the agriculturist,, tion of about seven million tons has during this period of inflation, in the been anticipated. Because of the floods interests of the industrialists, the- Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 11^64 Fooi and Agricultural 3556 :3555 Raw Materials (Shri V. O, Deshpande] agriculturists were deprived of the problems of the coconut growers of prices which were their due. I re West Coast. You know that India present the case, particularly, of the has got the second place so far as cotton growers in Madhya Pradesh. the world’s coconut production is We found that during this whole- concerned and Travancore-Cochin the period, in order to serve the interests largest area in India. During the last -of the textile industry and the middle- six months, the orice of coconuts ,men, Government helped the industry has come down dye to the revised and the middlemen, while the colton import policy of the Government of growers could not get proper prices. India. During the last fifteen or Even in the case of foodstuffs, we twenty years, when the British were found that on account of the rising m power, they imported large prices, the middle classes and the quantities of coora and coconut oi*l, lower classes in the city suffered, without considering the interests of but the agriculturists did not get the coconut growers, with the result proper profits. All the profits went that the prices had gone down even into the pockets of the middlemen. far below those existing today. Sub- The prices rose when Iftie agricul- sequenily, as a result of the agitations rturists had exhausted their stocks, of the coconut growers, the import and the prices came down when they duty was raised, and the coconut had the stock with them. growers were able to get better prices. Again, we find that the import duty has been reduced. In Within this limited time, I would 1952, the import duty was 25 per make only one proposal to Govern cent, standard, and 15 per cent, pre ment, and that is that Governmetit ferential, while the tariff rate was have to determine their policy with 56 per cent. Suddenly, in 1952-53, it regard to the agricultural prices. was reduced to 15 per cent, standard, The first principle that should guide and 5 per cent. preferential duty. them, while fixing these prices, is Owing to this reduction as also the that the prices should be economic fact that there was no quantitative prices. Agriculture should be con- restriction in regard to the import of •.sidered positively as an industry, copra from Ceylon and other places, and after defraying all tihe expenses the prices have gone down con to be incurred in this profession of siderably. Even now, the prices are agriculture, the agriculturist must get considerably low. and I have got re a sufficient amount of profit. After presentations and memoranda from fixing vhese prices which will be the people of that area,—I have got economic for an agriculturist, my lots of papers and press cuttings with second proposal Is that In order to me—which go to sftiow that unless give relief to the lower and the the import duty is raised, the price middle classes and the lafaiourers, will go down still further Formerly, Government have to keep with them the Ceylon merchants had to pay stocks of foodstuffs, and see tbit by Rs. 16 per cwt. of copra, but now ;giving subsidy, the urban population they have to pay only Rs. 2i per cwt. is supplied foodstuffs at an economic At the expense of the Indian agri level. culturists, the Ceylonese are getting Shri Adiuthan (Crangannur): T their money. This is so not only in am sorry that the hon. Minister of the case of edible oils, but even in Commerce and Industry is not the case of industrial products also. present in the House, because this subject is connected with his policy So, the Commerce and Industry also. Ministry and the Government of India must take care to see that the Wtthin the limited time at my dls- fall in prices is arrested, and that ijosal, I would like to refer to the the import duty is raised to such an 3557 Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 3558 Raw Materials ex t^ t as will assure to the growers In the index numbers of .whole a r^tpnable level of orices. 1 do not sale prices, we find that for 1953-54, say that there should not be a fall the index number of wholesale in prices at all at any time, but I prices was 397*5. For the last two am only saying vhat this sudden fall months for which figures are avail in prices, because of the reduction in able, i.e., for June and July 1954, the import duty, will affect the growers index number of wholesale prices very seriously, and their cry will stands at 381*6 and 381*8. It was said Tiave far-reaching consequences not that '.he cost of living was not going only in the economic field, but even down. It is certainly going down. in the political field in the West Wlhat do these figures mean, if they Coast. do not mean that the cost of living is going down? The cost of living Shri V. B. Gandhi (Bombay City- index for 1953-54 stood at 106. In North): Shri Asoka Mehta's case is April-May, 1954, it stood at 102. based on the assumption that tliere ha» been a fall in the prices of food and So, as I said, we are moving in the agricultural products, a fall of a kind direction in which we ought to move that should cause alarm in this in the interest of our economy. We House, and a fall that cannot be can concede that it may be necessary explained as a fall due to the seasonal some day for this Government to change in prices. Now, what are tiie take a long-term view, a view which facts? He has quoted a set of will lake into consideration a pro iigures. nounced secular trend towards a de cline in prices, a trend which is Here, in the Reserve Bank of likely to cause continued suffering India’s Bulletin, for August, 1954 on and loss to the agricultural pro pa^e 723, we find that in December, ducers. 1953, the index number for food articles was 363*4, while on July 31st, Dr. Krishnaswaml: I should like 1954, it was 360*6. That certainly ife to invite your attention to two or not something very alarming. It is three facts and vhen briefly chalk out •true that in May-June, the prices had the possible policies which the Gov fallen considerably. In June, it was ernment may follow. It is indisput 338. From 338 in June, it has picked able that the terms of trade have tip to 360-6 in July. That is some moved in favour of industry. The thing that happens as a seasonal question is, is this an unmixed “The Committee wish to sound Shri Bansal (Jhajjar-Rewari): a note of warning against per mitting the tempo in Ihe prices Vigilant and studious as my hon. of agricultural commodities to friend, SIhri Asoka Mehta, is, I can such low levels, for that will not help saying that he has brought have serious repercussions on the about this debate about three months whole economic and social fabric too late. I know the agricultural of the community” . prices were showing a downward trend in May, and June, but after Apart from what the industrialists June they are showing a healthy up or the Federation say, I am one of ward trend. My friend. Mr. V. B. those who believe lihat we cannot Gandhi, pointed out tJhese figures. allow our agricultural prices to go The index of food articles in June down to a level where the agricul was 338. It improved to 360 in July turist will find it difficult to purchase and 366 in September. As regards his articles of common consumption. industrial raw materials, while the Even from our developmental point index came down to 416 in July from of view, where will our development 431 in June, it has gone up to 421 be if the vast majority of our masses— in September. The position in the after all the agricultural community case of raw cotton is also slightly represents 70 per cent, of our popu- better because the Index number was lation—do not get adequate pricef 28 SEPTEMBEE 1994 Food ond Agriculiura: 3 5 6 4 3563 Fall in Prices of Raw Material* [Shri Bansal] for what they produce? How will the great effort that the Agriculture our developmental programmes pro Miniistry made and is still making, gress? After all, it is in in the production was raised to 46*95 terests of the community that the lakhs of bales, that is, practically agriculturists wlho represent the bulk three times, within the course of a of our population get a fair deal for few years. But, Sir, though the whatever they produce, because only Agricultural Department was doing then they will be able to produce its its duty to have more iJtoduction—we common necessities which are, to want 60 lakhs of bales for our mills— some extent, the products of manu the production has again gone down facturing industries. Therefore, Sir, to 31 lakhs of bales in the next year, ill the interests of our developmental that is 1953-54. economy, it is right that we should not allow agricultural prices to fall We have it, in the Jute Bulletin precipitately. I am glad that Govern that has been published in December, ment did not sleep over this matter this year, that not only has produc and wlherever they found that the tion gone down by 32*1 per cent, but prices were falling below the econo jute average has also gone down by mic level, they gave price support at 34*2 per cent, with the result that a once. They did so in ^he case of decline in the production of jule has cotton; they did it in the case of been reported by all the jute-growing some cereals in Saurashtra and, I States. It is, however, more marked think, in the case of rice also they in West Bengal and Bihar, and it is came out with that type of policy. mainly due to uncertain weather But, I think, there is no need of Itiat conditions and fall in prices at the now because Iftie prices have again time of sowing. So. if any price been showing a slightly upward support is required, it has been trend. But, I say at once that if amply proved that it is so in the the prices show again a tendency of case of jute and a price incentive is going down, Government should not one of tihe main factors for more hft found wanting and they must production. come forward wiih price support at once because we must maintain price parity in order to achieve the In the present year also, that is success of our developmental pro 1954-55, the estimated production will grammes. not exceed 30 lakhs of bales whereas in India we require 60 lakhs bales. Shri Barman (North Bengal— We also apprehend that this year in Reserved—Sch. Castes): Sir, while I Pakistan also the production will be join the protest about tihe fall in less and due to that there will be a prices of agricultural produces. I difficulty of import even from Pakis would specially like to invite the tan. Our jute industry will have also attention of the hon. Minister to one to suffer and there will be unemploy of the products which grows in my ment. I simply invite the Ihon. Minis State, namely, jute. ter’s attention to this price in centive so far as jute is concerned. Sir, within my limited time, I shall He should look into it very seriously simply point out' to the hon. Minister and before the next sowing season certain figures which his own Minis comes he should fix some minimum try has given us. It is known to price for jute so that there may be everybody Ihow jute is one of the some incentive. principal economic items of our country so far as foreign exchange is Shri B. K. Das (Contai): Sir, it may concerned. At the time of partition be that at present the situation |l8 in 1947, only 16 59 lakhs of bales not so serious about prices as it ha« were produced in our country. With been stated by the hon. Member who 3565 Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agricultural 3566 Raw Materials initiated this debase. But the pro might be an Advisory Committee and blem of price support for agricul which wiU keep a watch over the tural produce remains a bum ini prices of all agricultural products and question for us. advise Government from time to time, so that when such situations arise, In this connection, I may refer to they wi’ll take necessary steps. two valuable reports that have been Shri Kidwai: Sir,...... before us for some time. The Krishna- machari* Committee report which dealt Several Hon. Members rose— very lucidly with this price support problem has been before the Govern Mr, Chairman: In a matter like this, ment for a long time and recently the I must inform the House—I know ther© report of the Jute Enquiiy Commission is some complaint about my having is also before us. About the prices called partit:ular members only to of articles of food, foodgrains and speak and I have received many about the prices of commercial agri chits also—but it is not realised that cultural produce, these two documents in order that hon. Members may be have very elaborately dealt with them. called, they must have, undfer rule 211, been signatories to the notice. I My hon. friend, Mr. Barman, has can only call such of those Members already referred to the problem of as have appended their signatures jute, and we had occasion, in this to the notice. I have called those House, to discuss the matter previous Members and I could not possibly ly. All the State Governments which call other Members. have got jute in their States have Dr. Ram Subhag Singh (Shahabad pointed out that unless some price South): We had given notice but o u p support i’s given to jute, it is impos sible to keep the production of jute at names were not called. a certain level so that we may meet Mr. Chairman; I had called all Mem our requirements. But the Commis bers who had given notice and who sion has not been able to recommend stood up. If any hon. Member does any price support for jute and they not choose to stand, I cannot help have made some alternative sugges that. tions. The main question that arises is how to implement the suggestions Dr. Ram Subhar Singh: There are O f the Krishnamachari Committee and Members who have signed and who how to implement any suggestion for stood up but have not been calledi. jute prices. The main problem is of Capitalists have been called. funds. If the Government has to give Mr. Chaimuui: Unfortunately Dr. price support to our agricultural pro Ram Subhag*8 name does not ducts—be they commercial agricul appear in the list of those who had tural products or be they foodgrains— signed the notice. it is very difficult to give that price support unless the Government is Shri Kidwai: Sir, I am sorry I was prepared to set apart a large sum of not here when my friend Mr. Asoka money for that purpose. Of course, Mehta moved this motion. I came in it is true that Government have been just as he was flnishixlg. If his trjring to give some support in certain speech was at the beginning as vehe cases when they feel that the situation ment as it was at the end, I do not is going out of handf. But, I feel, think he has made out any case, there must be some permanent orga Shri A. M. Hionuui: It only rose to nisation, at least some organisation a pitch. Of the nature suggested by the Krishnamachari Committee report, Shri Kidwai: Sir, I think the Mem some organisation Uke the AU India bers of this House know that we have Agricultural Prices Council, which been trying to give some pri^ sup* 3567 Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 1964 Food and Agricultural 3568 ' RavoMateriaU [Shri Kldwail port. It is not our desire that the Bengal. In Bengal, the yield of rice prices of agricultural products should per acre used to be » little below S not remain as hi^h as they were two maunds per acre. Then it went on years ais^o. 1 know that the prices steadily up and in 1953 the yield was cannot be brought down precipitately more than 10 maunds and thi-s year, unless there is a reduction in the that is, in 1954, the yield has been prices of what the agriculturists con 14 maunds per acre. It is almost sume. Therefore, we have been try double what it used to be ten years ing to do something. ago. It has gone up a little less than 50 per cent, in the course of this year. Last year we had decided not to If the prices go down, I db not think tnaks any luocuremait of i>acCdy or the agriculturists will suffer. What rice in West Bengal. But, we found he may lose by fall in prices, he will that the Drices had gone down and, gain by rise in the yield of production. at some places, the nrices were as This is our policy. I cannot under low as Rs. 5/8 or Rs. 6/- a maund. stand all that many hon. Members on Then, we had to steo in and ask the the other side said. They say that Bengal Government to start procure whatever was the price last year, the ment at slightly lower prices than the price is too high for the poor con procurement orices in the previous sumer. Now the price has gone down year, and we succeeded in keeping up a little. It is still high for the pro the prices and the production of paddy ducer. was so large that we got by this voluntary sale more paddy than we Shri A. M. Thomas; You keep a could ever get. Similarly, as some balance. friends know, when the price of wheat started going down below Rs. Shri Kidwai: Therefore, people say 10 in Punjab and U. P., I then advised that the produer is suffering. There the Governments of the Punjab and is another group of persons on the U. P. to start purchasing at Rs. 10. Opposition side who say “Pay the pro Whatever my hon. friend, Mr. Asoka ducer a very high price, and when Mehta, may have read in some jour selling it to the consimier. sell it at nal. this policy was not questioned a price at which he can consume.” and both the State Governments had There must be some balance between made arrangements to start purchas the two viewpoints. We are trying to ing at Rs. 10 if the prices go down. keep up that balance. Friends know If there is any indication, I would that we have already given support give the assurance to the agricul to cotton and we have not allowed turist that some sort of price support the cotton prices to go below the will be brought into effect if prices minimum. We have given the assur go down precipitately, but prices are ance to the producer that when the high and prities should not go down prices go below that minimum, we to the extent that the average Indian will then start purchasing at that agriculturist cannot afford to take his pricei, and, therefore, they will be full meal within his income. We hoj)e assured of that price. The same thing that the progress that is being maSe has not been possible about jute, first in this country will raise the standard of all, on account of the comparative of living of the people, but we also and competitive prices between here should take into account the result of and Pakistan and! also on account of the different efforts that are being the different qualities that are being made to increase the yield per acre produced in different parts of the and that will, in a way, offset the fall country. If you give a minimum in prices, as has already been said. I price support, then that support for will ask my friend to see what has the production in Bengal will be too been the result of these efforts in high for the production in Bihar or 3569 Fall in Prices of 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Food and Agneultural 3570 Raw Materials Assam where the quality is very dif said* that in ftood areas, the cane crop ferent. Still we are workiim towards has been damaged and, thereore, Gov it Whenever U is possible, we will ernment should pay some compensa introduce it, but the present-day prices tion. Why that compensation should are sufficiently reasonable to ensure not be paid for paddy-grower I do not a fair return to the prod!ucer. We are understand. Because cane gets higher also going towards a price support profits, whenever they suffer a loss, wherever it is necessary, but I do not it should be a higher loss. But the think we have reached a stage where Government treat both the paddy- we should rush in for price support grower and the cane-grower on the because we have to strike a balance same footing and it cannot assure pro between the price of the producer and fit to the cane-grower while the paddy of the consumer, and I think we have grower i's suffering a loss, succeeded in doing it. Shri Gadgil (Poona CentralV. WUl The Parliamentary Secretary to the the Government fix the price for cane Minister of Railways and Traasport taking Into account the cost of its (Shri Shahnawaz Khan): Will the hon. production? Minister say something about sugar cane also? Shri Kidwai; 1 think it is very diffi cult for people who generally sit in Shri Kidwai: 1 thought I had said the House to find out the cost of pro something, but the hon. Member was duction. The other day I said that a not here. I said' that we must have State Government appointed’ com-* a relative price support for everything mifttee to find out the c»ost of pro and therefore, we have to find out duction Of wheat. After three years’ that the cane prices are not too high working, it arrived at the conclusion for the alternative crops. Otherwise, that the cost of production of wheat those crops would disappear and was Rs. 80. The Government was so everybody will grow cane and then shocked by this that they did not he will have to bum his cane or sell proceed with the work. I saw the gnr at a ridiculously low price. Some Tariff Board report where they work people from the area, where the hon. out the cost of production of gur. Member has got his own cultivation, They arrived at a figure which, hav in 1952, had to s ^ their gur at Rs. ing come from a cane-producing 5-8-0 per maund because there was family, I thought was too high. I made more cultivation of cane than i>eople enquiries in Meerut, which is the can consume. This was not the first main gur producing area, and they time in U.P. and Bihar such a situa said that it is more than double tion arose. Whenever you have got a what they actually spend. very high price for cane and the prices Shri Gadgil: If you want to control of alternative crops are low, this the prices of sugarcane, then you thing happens. I once cited here a must work on certain principles. If case wherein—I think it was in 1948 you find it is very difficult, then or 1949—-the Government fixed Rs. 2 leave it free absolutely and do not per maund for cane prices, but the control it at all. startling thing was that the cane area did nfc)t g)o ulp but came down the Shri Kidwai: I joined the agitation next year, because the price of wheat in 1932-33, which forced the Govern and rice, the alternative crops, in the ment to pay the cane-Rrowers because black market was very high. There, the millowners took advantage of the fore, prices can only be comparative helplessness of the cane-growers. and competitive. You cannot have a When the cane-growers took their high price for one commodity and cane to the gates of the mill, the mill low price for another commodity. The owners said “We do not want It”, and other day some friends from Bihar they paid one anna or two annas per 3571 Motions re: 28 S£PT£M B £R 1954 Service Rules 357Z [Shrl Kidwal] maund. Otherwise, i would have ac- administrative Service (recruit c^ ted the bon. Member's suggestion. ment) Rules, 1954, laid on the So, we have to compare the prices of table of the House on the 10th the alternative crops and see that the September, 1954, namely: agriculturist does not ^et much more '(bb) by selection, in special than what the alternative crops would cases from among members of the allow. Central Secretariat Service:* This House recommends to the Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha MOTIONS RE: SERVICE RULES do concur in the said resolution.” Mr. Chairman: We will now pro ceed to the motions about the Indian Mr. Chairman: Motion moved: Administrative Service (Recruitment) Rules, the Indian Police Service (Re “This House resolves that in cruitment) Rules and the All India pursuance of sub-section (2) of Services (Conduct) Rules. section 3 of the All India Services Act, 1951, the following new clause Shri V. P. Nayar (Chirayinkil): Sir, be added after clause (b) of sub I beg to move: rule (1) of Rule 4 of the Indian. Administrative Service (Recruit 'Thiis House resolves that in ment) Rules 1954, laid on the pursuance of sub-section (2) of table of the House on the 10th. section 3 of the All India Services September, 1954, amely: Act, 1951, the Indian Adlministra- tive Service (Recruitment) Rules, ‘ (bb) by selection, in special 1954, laid on the table on the 10th cases from among members of the September, 1954, be repealed. Central Secretariat Service:’ This House recommends to the This House recommends to the Xlajya Sabha that the Rajya Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha Sabha do concur iix the said Re do concur in the said resolution.*'^ solution.” Mr, Chairman: Motion moved: Shrlmati Jayashri (Bombay—Subur “This House resolves that in ban): Sir, 1 beg to move: pursuance of sub-section (2) of section 3 of the All India Services “ This House resolves that iti Act, 1951, the Indian Administra pursuance of sub-section (2) of tive Service (Recruitment) Rules, of section 3 of the All India Ser 1954, laid on the table on the 10th vices Act, 1951, sub-rule (3) of September, 1954, be repealed. Rule 5 of the Indian Administra tive Service (Recruitment) Rules, This House recommends to the 1954, laid on the table on the 10th Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha September, 1954, be omitted. do concur in the said Resolution.” This House recommends to the Shri Bagharamaiah (Tenali): Sir, I Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha beg to move: do concur in the said! resolution,^ “This House resolves that in pursuance of sub-section (2) of Mr. Chairman: Motion moved: section 3 of the All India gervices Act, 1951, the following new clause “This House resolves that in he added after clause (b) of sub pursuance of sub-section (2) of rule (1) of Rule 4 of the Indian section 3 of the All India Service# 3573 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBEB 1954 Service Rules 3574, Act, 1951, sub-rule (3) of Ruie 5 This House recommends to the ot the Indian Administrative Ser Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha ^ vice (Recruitment) Rules, 1954, do concur in the said* resolution.’* laid on the table on the 10th Sep tember, 1954, be omitted. Shri Thimmaiah: Sir, I be^ to move:. This House recommends to th» “This House resolves that in Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sibha pursuance of sub-section (2) of do concur in the said' resolution.*' section 3 of the All-India Services Act, 1951, the following new sub Shri Thimmaiah (Kolar—Reserved rule be added after sub-rule (2) —Sch. Castes): Sir. I ben to move: of Rule 8 of the Inoi'an Adminis “This House resolves that in trative Service (Recruitment) pursuance of sub-section (2) of Rules, 1954, laid on the table on section 3 of the All-India Services the 10th September, 1954, name Act, 1951, for sub-rule (4) of Rule ly: 7 of the Indian Administrative ‘(2A) The regulations made Service (Recruitment) Rules, 1954, under sub-rule (1) shall provide laiti on the table on the 10th Sep for the reservation in favour of tember, 1954, the followinjs sub Scheduled Castes and Scheduled rule be substituted, namely: Tribes to the extent of 121 per '(4) The number of vacancies cent, and 5 per cent, respectively reserved for the Scheduled Castes of the number of vacancies to be and Scheduled* Tribes shall be fill filled by promotion from amongst ed by the best candidates selected the members of a State Civil from among the Scheduled Castes Service.* and Scheduled Tribes and if the This House recommends to the selected candidates are not up to Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha the /general level, they shall be do concur in the said* resolution." trained and absorbed in the Mr. Chairman: Motion moved: Service.' “This House resolves that in This House recommends to the pursuance of sub-section (2) of Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha section 3 of the All-India Services do concur in the said resolution.*’ Act, 1951, the following new sub Mr. Chairman: Motion moved: rule be added after sub-rule (2) of Rule 8 of the Indian Adminis “This House resolves that in trative Service (Recruitment) pursuance of sub-section (2) ol Buies, 1954, laid on the table on section 3 of the All-India Services the 10th S^tember, 1954, name Act, 1951, for sub-rule (4) of Rule ly: 7 of the Indian Administrative Service (Recruitment) Rules, 1954, *(2A) The regulations made laitl on the table on the lOth Sep under sub-rule (1) shall provide tember, 1954, the followinif sub for the reservation in favour of rule be substituted, namely: Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to the extent of 12i per *(4) The number of vacancies cent and 5 per cent respectively reserved for the Scheduled Castes of the number of vacancies to be and Scheduled Tribes shall be fill filled by promotion from ed by the best candidates selected amongst the members of a State from amonR the Scheduled Castes Civil Service.* and Scheduled Tribes and If the selected candidates are not up to The House recommends to tiie the general level, they shall I>e Rajya Sabha that the Rajya trained and absorbed in the Sabha do concur in the said reso Service.’ lution.’ 3575 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3576 gbrlauti Sir, I beg to ffection 3 of the All-India Ser- move: ▼iceii Act, 1951, the following new sub-rule be added after sub “ This House resolves that in rule (2) of Rule 12 of the All pursuance of sub-section (2) of Zndia Services (Conduct) Rules, section 3 of the All-India Services 1954, laid on the table on the Act, 1951, sub-rule (3) of Rule 10th September, 1954, naniely: 3 of the Indian Police Service (Recruitment) Biules, 1954 laid *(3) No member of the Service on the table on the 10th Septem shall use his influence while in ber, 1954 be omitted. service to secure employment for himself after retirement.* This House recommends to the Rajya Sabha that the Rajya This House recommends to the Sabha do concur In the said re Rajya Sabha that the Rajya solution.** Sabha do concur in the said re solution.” Mr. Chairman: Motion moved: Two and a half hours liave been “This House resolves that in allotted for this discussion. There pursuance of sub-section (2) of are, in all, four or five motions. I section 3 of the All-India Services should think half an hour to each Act, 1951, sub-rule (3) of Rule may do: or one hour may be devoted 5 of the Indian Police Service to 5, 6, 7 and 10 and the rest three (Recruitment) Rules. 1954 laid may be finished in a period of one on the table on the 10th Septem hour and a half. As several Members ber, 1954 be omitted. are anxious to speak, I propose to give ten minutes to eacth Member. This House recommends to the Rajya Sabha that the H ajya Shrimati Sushama Sen (Bhagalpur Sabha do concur in the said re South): I suggest that women Mem solution.** bers should be given more time. Sbri Thimmaiah: Sir, I beg to move: Mr. Cbairman: The Chair cannot discriminate beiliween the women “ This House resolves that in Members and men Members in this pursuance of sub-seciiion (2) of m atter. section 3 of the All-India Ser vices Act, 1951, the foUowing Shri V. P. Nayar: The motion new sub-rule be added after sub- which I have today moved was the rude (2) of Rule 12 of the All subject of discussion in the Rajya India Services (Conduct) Rules, Sabha on the 24th of this month* On 1954, laid on the table on the that occasion it created history in 10th September, 1954, namely: that many women Members belong ing to the various parties voted ‘ (3) No member of the Service against Government. In the reply of shall use his influence w(hile in the Home Minister to that debate I service to secure employment for was amazed when I found that he himself after retirement.’ (had such a wonderful storehouse of This House recommends to the nonsense and frivolity at his disposal, Rajya Sabha that the Rajya that he could meet any situation. Sabha do concur in the said re Sir, I also found that in justifying solution.*’ the stand which he had taken against Mr, Cfaaimuui: Motion moved: the women of the country, he invok ed the aid of four sentences which *'This House resolves that in (he read out from a private letter .pursuance of sub-section (2) of said to have been written by the late 5ervie« Rule$ 357J 3577 Motiotw re: 28 S E P m C B B R 1964 Sarctor Patel. We, Sir, in this parU- to Ministers were taken in the Civil cular context, are not interested to Service from the State of Travan- know what Sardar Patel might have cpre-Cochin. The Deputy Home Min written in his private correspondence. ister, poor man, said: '*1 do not We want to know the facts. know.** To understand the attitude of Gov The Deputy Minister of Home ernment in this particular matter one Affairs (Shri Daiar): On a point of must go back to the history of this order, now he has to speak only on Act which forms the basis of these the points wltlh regard to his own rules. You will find, Sir, that in 1950 motion; he cannot make general the All India Services Bill was dis comments on all the rules. cussed in the Parliament when Mr. Shri V. P. Nayar: The Deputy C. Rajagopalachari, who happened to Minister is very much mistaken, be be the then Home Minister, said: cause my motion is for the repeal of “As soon as Parliament meets all the rules. Has he not seen that again, whether it is in this April, before? I shall send him a copy. or the next April, it is going to have greater authority in dealing My point is this. When I con with this matter. The Rules will fronted the Deputy Home Minister be scrutinised by it and passed on the 6th of March with a supple by it. Therefore, hon. Members mentary question he said that he did may rest content that no wrong not know whether there were news will be done by way of this.’* paper reports and editorials against the selection of officers from the re Sir, at that time Mr. C. Rajagopala gular cadres of the State Service into chari gave an assurance to the House the IAS Cadre from the Travancore- that in tihe next session, very detailed Cochin State. I know, Sir. each and rules for the conduct of the Services every man wiho has been selected will be brought before the House. from the Travancore-Cochin Service But nothing had been done during and I know also that 50 per cent, of the last eight sessions. Now, Gov such persons have been working as ernment come forward and say: private secretaries. We are not pre^ **Here are the rules.” We know that pared to give Government this autho whenever there is great pressure on rity under which they can get in this House, Government come for through the backdoor every sort of ward and lay copies of the rules on favourite and they can indulge in the the Table and try to get away with utmost graft. I do not want to go that. But we are fortunate that we into details. But Government ihave are having a discussion here. not brought forward any case by which we can give them vast powers. Sir, I went through all the rules and I find that this is nothing but a set Shri A. M. Thomas (Emakulam): of very wicked rules, each of them Does the hon. Member know what unconstitutional and some of them positions they were occupying before very very reactionary. I shall begin they became private secretaries? with Rule 4 in which provision Is Shri V. P. Nayar: I know; I was made for the selection of IAS Officers, working with most of them in lihe either by recruitment or by promo Secretariat. Some of them have taken tion or from State Civil Service, or training under me. by selection in special cases from among persons other than members I also wish to invite the attention of the Civil Service. Sir, on the 6th of the House to sub-rules (2) and of March this Year, I put a ques (3) of Rule 5. Under this rule no tion to the Deputy Home Minister, person who has more than one wife who is fortunately here, whether be living shall be eligible for appoint knew how many private secretaries ment to service. What happens, I 3579 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3580- fShri V. P. Nayar] want to ask the Home Minister, case, and she was one of our very whom I find here now, to those offi best doctors. cers who ihave had two wives and Kumari Annie Mascarene (Trivan^ who are in his own Ministry. I know drum): She had more than one child. actually the case of officers in the Home Ministry. What action is the Shri V. P. Nayar: She had two. Home Minister taking in respect of And another is a very eminent doctor persons whose first wives have pro in Delhi. I do not find any justi tested to him that their husbands are fication why women should be asked getting into second, marriage? I saw to choose between marriage and gov In the Central Hall some ladies mak ernment service. We have to give ing representations to the Home them the rights which they deserve. Minister. I leave Dr. Katju tio tlhe We have also to encourage them to wrath of our women Members here. get into such competitive services. But I want to say that tl^se rules But Dr. Katju at this time would here are very treacherous, to say the come and say “Look here, women least. Dr. Katju seems to be think have children, they must first mind ing in terms of the time when he be about tJheir children” . came a lawyer; perhaps, he does not see that the world has changed. We I also found, when I was reading, know that in other countries we have that Dr. Katju in a very hilarious not only women in such important mood, instead of placing the letter positions, but we have women en of Sardar Patel on the Table, said gineers; they have women doctors in he would place the book Life of very large numbers; they have wo Johnson by Boswell. men sailors and women pilots. But according to Dr. Katju the only The Minister of Home Alfairs and object of having the Indian Adminis States (Dr. Katju): Sir, is my friend trative Service is to order firing. He in order in criticising me for a speech would say, as a moralist, that women which I have not made here? should first attend upon their child Shri V. P. Nayar: I (have a ruling ren. He says; Suppose there is a that it is possible. It has been ruled. sudden emergency, suppose there are tazias-----(An hon. Member: Tazias7) Mr. Chairman: The general rule is That is the word which he used, that any speeches made tihere cannot whatever it is, tazias. He said: *'Just be quoted here. consider this. There is a woman District Magistrate. Imagine there Shri V. P. Nayar: I have obtained a Is a sudden emergency—tazias—all ruling that a speech made by any sorts of things. She has got a little Minister in either House can be re baby. Is she going to carry the baby, ferred to and commented ui>on in there? There are four lady Members this House. here” and all that. According to Dr. Katju the only thing such an officer Sliri M S. Gurupadaswamy (My- has to do is only to order firing or sio^): There was a ruling ‘pn my to control a crowd. point of order. Mr. Chainnan: Will the hon. Mem I know from my experience in my ber refer me to the rule or ruling? State that there have been women in very responsible positions. We had Sbri V. P. Nayar. I never said rule a woman Surgeon-General ten or fifteen years back. She had children. Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy: Oo One of her boys is in the Indian Saturday there was a ruling on my foreign Service. He grew up in spite point of order whether a Member of the fact that ^ attended to every lan quote the speech of a Minister 3 3 « i Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3583 in the other House, and the ruling policy by a Minister, a reference to watf that he can. his speech cannot be made. Mr. Chairman: So far as state Shri V. P. Nayar: I hold it was a ments of hon. Ministers are cwicemed definite statement of policy that they they may relate to two kinds of are not going to reconsider the rules. things, to statements of policy or to After the discussion, which raised other statements. So far as state there all aspects on these rules, the ments of policy are concerned it is Home Minister got up and in his [Shri Y. P. Nayarl ahould not come forward in a trifling Dr. Katju? After aU, the rules are manner and lay on the Table rules being discussed, not Dr. Katju. whidh were promised by his prede cessors to be laid on the Table three Shri V. F. Nayar. The rules are or four years back. being discussed, and Dr. Katju is the lather of these rules. I would end up by requesting every Mr. Chairman: Should all the sinsy hon. Member of the House to raise acts of commission and omission, his or her voice of protest on these now come before the House? most obnoxious rules. I would also say it prompts me, the way in which Shri V. P. Nayar: I do not under Dr. Katju has been speaking in a stand why they should not rest with very derisive manner in the otlher the Minister who is responsible. House and the way in which he smiles at me, it prompts me to make Mr. Chairman: The hon. Member an observation. I know that, as has already referred to them. What Goldsmith said once, “Villainy, when is the use of pressing them so hard? detected, never gives up, but boldly adds impudence to imposture*’. Shri V. P. Nayar: I do not want to carry on the controversy. I would Mr. Chairman: The hon. Member only urge upon all sections of the cannot improve his speech by refer House that they join us in throwing ring to sentences and quotations in this rule out. which nothing but vituperation is there. So far as this aspect is con The Prime Minister and Minister cerned, his case will improve if he of External Affairs and Defence (Shri uses moderate language. This kind Jawaharial Nelim): I feel a little con of language is not the language ap fused after the hon. Member’s speech. propriate in an Indian House of I have got the impression that he was Parliament. himself rather confused. In his de sire, somehow to bring in some quota« Shri V. P. Nayar: 1 can use very tions into his speech, which were moderate language. not particularly relevant to the oc Shri S'. V. Ramaswamy (Salem): casion, he lost, at any rate to my May I ask... understanding, the thread of his argument. Shri V. P. Nayar: I am not yield ing. I am not quite sure what he was driving at. Is he driving at the Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: It is a whole rep>eal or non-accepliance of point of order. Should not reference this book of rules or any particular to Ministers by their personal names rule or section? However, I propose be avoided as that will add to the to deal with only one or two matters dignity of the House? in these rules. Shri V. P. Nayar: I will only con clude by saying that this House must I do not know all tihe rules which take very serious notice of this. It is exist today, nor the other rules. I not the first experience we have had have not gone into them because from this hon. Minister. We have most' of them are normal rules which had from him the Preventive Detent- have been carried on. If any of tion Act, the Press (Objectionable them have to be changed, they can Matter) Bill and ever so many other be changed. There is no sanctity Bills, and it is time we try... nf statute attaching to these rules. Any rule, whenever this House feels Mr. Chairman: Why should he be like or the (government feels like, personal and refer so many times to can be changed. 3585 Uotions re: 28 SEPTEBdBER 1954 Service Rules 3S96» The hon. Member referred to one The other matter wftilch was re rule which I believe Is to the effect ferred to is this. The rule says* that a person (having two wives will not be employed. He asked, what *^No married w<»nan shall be is going to happen to those who al entitled as of right to be appoint ready have two wives. All I can ed to the Service, (that is, to the say is, they will continue to have two Administrative Service) and- wives. They will not be allowed to where any woman appointed to have a third wife. Because, the rule, the Service subsequently mar much as I would like it to be, is not ries, the Central Government/ retrospective.' In fact, tihis rule has may, if the maintenance of effi been brought in because some people ciency of the Service so requires, went in for a second wife and we call upon her to resign.” ^ found, much to our distress, that we f should like the House to consider could not restrain them from doing first of all that this is a permissive so, or even take any action in ac plause^ It djoes not automatically cordance with our Service rules. follow. It is possible, of course, for Therefore, the rule has now been this permissive clause to be applied, brought in for the first time. Pre strictly or leniently. Much depends,, viously, it was meant to be a con of course, on the authority applying. vention to be followed. But, con This matter was faced by me, parti ventions are broken. Because we cularly, in regard lo Foreign Ser got into that difficulty, we have vice. I think, even in this House on brought in l Now, it is because of that this diffi Hon. Members will forgive my say culty arises. Suppose they are not ing so—perhaps most of them—but it there, no difficulty would arise. We is my firm conviction, and I am speak will deal with the case as it arises. ing not lightly, but in all seriousness, Because that tremendous protection is that the women of India are of magni given, if we give that same tremend ficent stuff. I want to be quite clear ous protection to the woman, but that I am not talking in the terms of^ later she marries, wt? cannot deal with shall I say, our traditional heroines, her. We have to keep her whether good as they are: I am talking in we can use her in a proper way or not. terms of the life and work of today. Therefore, some such thing had to be They can do the job, and any job, 1 laid down which means, so far as 1 think. M ay be they cannot do some am concerned, absolutely no discrimi very heavy physical jobs and the rest. nation as such against a woman or a That is a different matter. But they man. can be excellent engineers, excellent doctors, excellent lawyers, excellent I am prepared to consider now or later perhaps a better wording of this teachers, excellent civil servants. Any which the House may suggest. In fact, job I am sure they can do. It is true this is a matter on which I do not that if you suddenly asked me to, let think there is any basic difference of us say, take in large numbers of wo opinion. I am not speaking for every men in our Army, well, for the mo hon. Member present here, but by ment, I would be taken aback. Logi and large I think there is no difference cally I might not be able to give an of opinion in this House, on that side answer, but the fact is, conditions be or this side or any side. There may ing what they are in the country, be perhaps difference in stress, in other factors—physical endurance and explanation, in elucidation. ' If the this and that—probably come in the present wording is not adequate, we way. Not that I have any basic objec are perfectly prepared to consider, in tion to that. Those things come in consultation with others, what would the way. And ultimately, it is a ques be an adequate wording, later. I am tion really of our not doing something perfectly prepared to consider that which, well, is wrong, ignoring, shall either in this House, if the House so I say, completely facts as they are, the wishes it, but probably it is much facts of social life in our country. I more convenient to consider it— it do not want to be tied down to cer is a question of language, wording tain old social customs which are out- only—outside the House informally at of-date. It is not that I am referring a later stage, and I can assure the to. But, if I may venture to say bq, House that if a suitable wording is today we may talk tall here in this found, we shall change it. There is House or elsewhere, as I often do, but no difficulty about changing the word the fact is that a woman when abe ing. But the basic thing has to be comes to public life has to face enorm met. X do submit that we cannot be ous difficulties—and that is not tied down by our rigid and hard ser fault of the women, but it is the fault vice rules as they are in matters of of the man. That is a point of re this kind because they will raise diffi member. She has to deal with all culties. kinds of gossips, insinuations. If she That is all I wish to submit to the is tough enough, well, she survives, or, House. I am not speaking about other ihe succumbs; she retires from that rules. I do not know much about life to some haven where this kind of them, but about this particular mat allegation cannot be made easily. That ter I )iave ventured to intervene be is the real difficulty, not the hard rules cause I attach great value, great im* that you make or do not make; and portance to women having equality of it is against that that I would venture opportunity, subject to certain inevita to ask all hon. Members here and ble matters in Services, in professions other people to put themselves «nd the like. against, to prevent this kind of thing 445 L.S.D. 3591 Motions r e : 28 SEPTBMBER 1954 Service Rules 3592 [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] in our public life, in our professional ment I cannot understand. It has no life, in our scientific and technical life. clear meaning. It is quite vague. If In our scientific field, we have some you test a Scheduled Cast^ candi brilliant young women and girls work date along with others you cannot ing in our national laboratories. So, I expect him to come up to tihe general venture to say that the real struggle level. I request the hon. Minister to we have to face in this matter—^and understand the background in which we have to fight many battles in order this reservation order is passed. to get women’s privileges recognized What is the purpose of reservation? fully—is not by legislation (legisla What is the object of this reserva tion is good enough, make it better if tion? Because the Scheduled Caste you like) but really in our social life. candidates are brougtit up in such an Shii ThimiiiAiaih; I welcome these atmosphere, in such unfortunate cir rules generally. To have a stable cumstances. that they cannot acquire and progressive Government, the so much knowledge, that they cannot administrative mach3Kiery must be read so much of books because of efficient and it should be above their bad circumstances, and natural politics and above party influence ly they cannot compete with the and above any individual influence. general candidates and score such These rules regulate not only the marks as the other candidates score, official life of an officer, but also to and naturally, they cannot come up to some extent, the private life of an the general level. I do not mean to officer, so far as they affect the say that the general level must be prestige of his position. I feel the brought down, and that the ineffi administrative machinery must al cient candidates must be taken into ways be in tact and it must be guid the administration. But my object ed by certain rules and regulations is this. Have Government taken any and it must have a sort of discipline steps to see that the Scheduled Caste which is conducive to the quick dis candidates come up to the general posal of the Government’s business, level? There might be a reservation and the administration must be made order, but that reservation order has progressive. not achieved the desired results. Therefore, my appeal to the hon. Home I have tabled some amendments Minister is that he should train the about the reservation of aiHX>intments Scheduled Castes in a particular for the Scheduled Castes and the branch of administration and absorb Scheduled Tribes. The reservation them, or if be cannot do so, I would order was promulgated, rather issu request him, whenever the selection ed, by the Home Ministry some years of candidates is made for govern bikck, but the reservation as it stoxids ment posts, to select the best among has not achieved the desired result. the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled O t o e are reservations for per Tribe candidates. After selecting the cent, of the posts for the Scheduled best among them, it is possible lor Caste people, and even today on no Government to train them and occasion this 12i per cent, is given to absorb them in the service. This is the Scheduled Caste candidates. I a suggestion wihich I am humbly put can understand the difficulties of the ting forth before the hon. Home Government. There may not be ade Minister for his consideration. and quate number of candidates avail I hope he will implement it. able at a time when tlhe examination is held. But there are instances The reason why I am saying this where the adequate number of candi is as follows. If you go on putting dates are available, but they are de this order in the book, and go on clared to be unsuitable. The word saying that no suitable candidate Is ^'unsuitable” used by the Public Ser available. and therefore all the vices Commission and the Govern vacancies are treated as unreserved. 3593 Motions re: 28 SEPTiSMBER 19M Service Rules 3594 if you go on doing like tihis, 1 do not quest the hon. Home Minister to con think, even for centuries, we could sider this reservation order hi all ;get our quota of 124 per cent, fulfilled its aspects, so that the desired results at any time in any year. This is a might be achieved. very practical suggestion that I am There is one other point which I putting before this House and the would like to touch upon, before I lion. Home Minister. conclude. There is a rule here which Next. I come to recruitment through says: promotion from the State Civil Ser- “No Member of the Service Tice. I would request the hon. Minis shall bring, or attempt to bring, ter to remember that whenever a any political or other outside in •candidate is appointed to the State fluence to bear upon any superior Civil Service, he is tested first, and authority to further his interest only if he is considered to be fit, he in respect of matters pertaining is appointed. Therefore, when you to his state service.” make a promotion from the State This is a very good rule, I admit, Services, I do not think any further and I should not want to change it test is necessary. As it is. 1 find But I want to make one submission that the reservation order does not in this regard. There are officers apply to these cases. I would request who tease the Scheduled Ca6te offi hon. Minister to apply the re cers unnecessary simply on the servation order even in these cases. ground that they happen to be It is easy for them to get the trained Scheduled Caste officers. I know of candidates, who are proper and cases Of officers who purposely deny suitable, because they are already in due promotion to the Scheduled Caste the State Services, and they are suffi officers, OiT ignore their effi ciently equipped with experience and ciency and write badly in the knowledge, to be better qualified for service records of the Scheduled promotion. Even there, if you say Caste odlcers. I do not blame all that he is not suitable or is not up to officers. Many of the officers were the general level. I cannot understand very sympathetic to us, but there are what is meant by general level, or certain officers like this also. The Tvhat is meant by merit or efficiency. whole world cannot be as sincere as "For instance, some time back, our Home Minister; there may be, officers to the I.A.S. from the State and in fact, there are some bad Services were nominated but no officers. So, I would submit that Scheduled Caste officer is there. to whenever a Scheduled Caste officer the credit of our Government, in the is imduly denied his promoti(Hi, or I.A.S. or the I.P.S. When these his efficiency is ignored, then nominations were made, the contem of Parliament or the State poraries of the Scheduled Caste ^^^^^latures have to interfere to officers were nominated, i^ereas thus and tell you, (here is a case Scheduled Caste officers who had put a Scheduled Caste officer has in the same number of years, and been meted out injustice. But accord •who had joined on the same day as ing to this rule, the Scheduled Caste the others, could not be nomina'iied on officer will be put into trouble, if the ground that they were not up to any Member of Parliament or a State the general level or that they were Legislature approaches on his behalf, cot merited In the consideration of I would request the hon. Member to the Union Public Service Commission. bear in mind that whenever Schedul With this sort of attitude of Govern ed Caste officers are meted out in ment, I do not think it is possible justice, and whenever we happen to for the Sch edu led Caste candidates ^represent such things, these officers ever to come up and 'have an adequate will not be affected by this rule. I representation in the administrative would request the hon. Minister to machinery. I would, therefore, re see that this rule is construed or 3595 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER i m Service Rules J59S [Shri Thiminaiahl interpreted liberally, so far as the Secretariat. I might tell the House Scheduled Caste officers are con that there have been very many cerned. brilliant people outside the ranks of the I.A.S., as for instance, some of Shri Rairhuramahih: My motion is our Deputy Secretaries who are, un very limited in its scope. It relates fortunately, as matters now stands to the omission of a certain category condemned to be eternally Deputy of government servants from pro Secretaries. I have known personal-^ motion to the I.A.S. I am quite sure ly many of them, and they are doing and confident that had the attentio]i ;heir jobs excellently. While in the o f the hon. Home Minister been drawn case of an Assistant Secretary of a to it, this omission would not have State Secretariat, you are now giving occurred. I would request the Home power to recruit him into the I.A.S.,’ Minister to seriously consider whether you are depriving a Deputy Secretary this omission is really justified, and of the Government of India of the whether it does not work a great same opportunity. hardship. I am makin^? an appeal to him in the name of this small cate After all, when you say, persons gory of Government servants who are other than members of the State Civil at the moment voiceless. Service, any person in a State service will become eligible for promotion to I am referrinf? to rule 4. w^'ich the Indian Administrative Service. relates to recruitment by various May be he is a Boiler Inspector, may methods to the I.A.S. One is com be he is an Engineer, may be he is petitive examination, another is pro merely an Assistant Secretary in a motion of members of the State Civil provincial secretariat; he will be en Service, and thirdly selection in titled, by virtue of this rule, provided special cases from among persons of course the State Government thinks other Vhan members of a State Civil that he is fit enough and provided the Service serving in connection with Government of India approve of the the affairs of a State. Prior to the selection, to come into the ranks of the constitution of the I.A.S., prior to Indian Adiministrative Servicte. I Independence there used to be two would like the Home Minister most , methods of recruitment to the Indian earnestly to consider why the same Civil Service, one by competition, privilege, the same advantage and the and another by means of appointment fame opportunity should not be given to what are called listed posts. The lis to a member of the Central Secretariat , ted post holders were recruited from Service—an able Undier-Secretar(y oxt among the State Civil servants, an able Deputy Secretary. One argu* mostly or wholly from among people ment which might perhaps be advanc who had experience of the revenue ed is that these people have no actual administration. Subsequently. the district experience. But in the case of I.A.S. having been formed, the Gov State servants, I find no such require ernment of India was good enough ment in the rules. As I said, even an Assistant Secretary in a provincial to consider the claims of the vast majority of other government ser secretariat, although he would have vants, atid include in the category of had no district experience, would be entitled, under this rule, for recruit persons entitled to promotion also ment into the Indian Administrative government servants employed in Service. By what logic can we deny the State, not necessarily in the Re the same opportunity to an Under venue Department. All that I am secretary or a Deputy Secretary now asking now is that this indulgence working in the Central Secretariat. shown to government servants out side the Revenue Department in the I know personally of cases where States should be also shown to gov persons without even the least practi ernment servants here in the Central cal experience in the districts have been 3597 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3598 posted even 9 s Secretaries of State discussion of these motions was 2| Governments. There has been patron hours. According to the time-table, this age going on. But I am not asking that discussion should close at 5-30 P.M. that should be made a rule. I certain Now. at least half an hour will be taken ly agree that some amount of practical by the hon. Minister and the hon. district experience may be necessary Deputy Minister for Home Affairs. lor persons recruited to the Indian Ad That means I will not be able to acco^ ministrative Service, but what I do modate as many speakers as I would affirm and most earnestly request the like to. Under these circumstances, 1 Home Minister to remember is that would just take the sense of the House. there should not be any distinction II they want to prolong the debate, I made between a State civil servant and have no objection; we can have half an a Central civil servant in this regard. hour more so that more speakers may As far as that experience is concerned, get time. are there not cases where persons Kumarl Annie Mascarene: Those of working in the Central Secretariat have us who have signed the motion may be •been sent out to the mofussll for revenue given at least five or ten minutes each training. If practical experience in the to speak. district is necessary— and I do agree that it may be necessary—will it be Mr. Chainnan: I want that as many impossible for the Government to send Members as possible may take part in ^uch of those who by their brilliance this debate. So many lady Members make themselves qualified for recruit- have sent chits to me. I do not want iment to the Indian Administrative to discriminate; I want that every lady 'Service for a little training in the dis Member may get a chance. But my tricts? Is it impossible? The case is difficulty is that the time is so short r$o clear for the inclusion of this cate that I will not be able to accommodate gory of Central Secretariat servants, them an. Therefore, I desire that the -^at all I can aay is that the matter House agrees to prolong the discussion was not properly placed before the by half an hour. Home Minister—in the manner 11 should %ave been put. Some Hon. Members: Yes. My object in making this motion is Sardar A. S. Saigal (Bilaspur): Up to only that the Home Minister should 6 P.M. bring his personal attention to bear on Mr. Chainnan: But then there is am this subject, consider the hardship, the other discussion for half an hour. *injustice. the unfairness that will work ^ut on this particular category of BhrimaH Soehc^ KripaSam (New *8ovemment servants and place them Dettii): Tomorpow. on the same footing at least as those <5ivil servants from the States who are Mr. Chainnan: I do not want that Tiot now in the revenue deoartment. the hon. Member. Mr. H. N. Mukerjee, This is. after all, so obvious a case. It should be deprived of the right to dis unust strike any person who reads this cuss the matter. At the same time, I rule that something has been left out. would make it clear to the House that X am really surprised that this matter if there is no quorum, I will not get has not been brought to the notice of the count made. I must see that the ilie Home Minister. I do not want to whole thing is finished and he should say anything more than that. Now that not be deprived of his right by the fact the matter has been brought to his that many Members agree to prolong notice, I hope he will see that justice is the debate and then run away as soon [Mr. Chainnan] Now, Shrimati Khongmen. I would Shrimati Khongmen: No, and I en also make a request to Members to tirely agree with him, but she need not. kindly take as little time as possible. neglect other duties on account of that. I thank him for his S3nnpathetlc con. Shrimati Khongrmeii (Autonomous sideration shown to women. But shall Distts.—Reserved—Sch, Tribes): I fully I tell him that as a mother, I feel it realise the very heavy responsibility not only a duty but a pleasure and a that rests on the able and strong privilege to bring up children? shoulders of the hon. the Home Minis ter. He has to see that the services of Dr. Kaiju: I would like hon. Members this country must be run efficiently, to listen to my hon. friend. sufficiently and expeditiously, if she has 4 P.M. to progress and* if she has to prosper. I can understand his anxiety to have Shrimati KlMmgmen: I think I ex* the best of talents in the administration press a view of all my sisters here in of the country, and in shaping its this House and outside. Therefore, she destiny. He, therefore, needs necessari wants to toil, to earn their bread, to ly to proceed cautiously, methodically educate them to the best of her abilities. and firmly. But with all respect to his So why must such rules and regula age, wisdom and experience, I cannot tions stand In her way? I do expect appreciate the way he wants to execute encouragement and support from him his decision. to help open wide the door for women to enter service in IAS or otherwise. The motion has already been moved I am extremely sorry to say that I can by Shrimati Jayashri Raiji and it was not accept the advice given by him ta already read by the hon, the Prime my sisters in the other House. Minister. So I am not going to read I want no sermons on the art of home- it again. Fortunately or unfortunately, making and child rearing from the we have given a Constitution to our hon. Home Minister. Such monopoly selves and it is my earnest belief that may best be left to women them- all its provisions, as laid down therein, ■ selves. I dare say with all humility must be carried out without any fear that women are no less conscious of or favour. Why then this discrimina their duties and responsibilities en tion made between man and woman? trusted to them than men. Wherk Appointment to the IAS is made after duty called they never lagged behind. careful selection, and after all, the When we were summoned by the candidates pass the competitive exami President according to the provisions^ nation. Why should then there be a in our Constitution, in responding ^ ; bar for married women to enter such the call, some of us with babes in>! service if found suitable for the post? arms travelled thousands of miles i» I could not think of a more absurd pro not too comfortable second class com vision than this. I think it is ridicul partments in coming to this ai ous to say that a woman, when married House. The hon. Minister may and has children, should cease to be that the case of the Members of Par efficient. On the contrary, it is expect liament is different. If that be si ed that a woman, when married, would may I tell him that during the fi gain more experience and would be dom movement, expectant mothe^ more conscious of her duties and res- and mothers with new-born babey possibilities. went to jail and suffered along witf men. Was the Home Minister theA The other day in the other House there to give advice, may I asH the hon. Home Minister was pleased to What happened to the children ^ say that the first duty of a mother was , those women? Of course, I do not e3B| to look after her child. pect to get a proper answer from th# hon. Minister. Instances of women Dr. Katja: Am I wrong? of ability, ability to suffer, to serv«; 3601 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 360-^ and to render all kinds of services trary to the spirit that has been guid under the most difficult circumstances ing the policy of the administration are too numerous and I do not intend since we attained freedom. It is also to mention them here. against all informed and progressive social opinion in this country. After Here, by this provision, you are go the attainment of freedom, what has ing deprive them of the honour of been the policy of Government? Just serving the country, to earn the bread now, our Prime Minister has told us for the children, and to supplement that the policy was to give equal op the family income. Have we no right portunities to all. The Government to enter such services? 1 cannot opened new avenues of work and op- understand what is put here in this j)ortunity for women. There was also provision. Is there a more absurd a recognition that women are capable thing than this to think that a woman of shouldering responsibility equally found to be efficient in service should, well. We have seen, during the last suddenly, cease to be efficient the few years, women holding the high moment she gets married? This, I est positions in this country. We have feel, is an insult to womanhood. It seen women who are mothers of child cannot be true. I have every faith in ren as Ambassadors, as Governors, the efficiency and ability of our as Ministers and in various other women. I therefore appeal and re walks of life. Wherever we sent quest the hon. Home Minister, with them, they have earned a good name, all the emphasis at my command, to they have worked efficiently and with revise this Rule. Yesterday, the credit. After that, I cannot see any Deputy-Speaker was pleased to say reason for framing this kind of dis that he, the Home Minister, possesses criminatory rule in the Government a warm heart and, in his own words, service rules. he is in the habit of reviewing and revising (his own mind in many mat I do realise that the position of wo ters. men in India, perhaps, is even better than in some of the other so-called I am really thankful for the high progressive countries of the West. tributes paid to women by the hon. The attitude of men towards women, Prime Minister. I wish with all my on the whole, is very good. For that, heart that the hon. Home Minister what is the reason? We have not to shares his views. I really find in him seek the reason very far. The reason the only friend and leader who really is our recent history. We were very understands men as well as women. fortunate to have, as our leader, I, therefore, trust that he will use his Mahatma Gandhi. He was not only influence in this matter and make sjrmpathetic towards the Harijans, to necessary changes he thinks best wards all backward people, but his suited to the interests of women. great understanding of women and sympathy for them is known to all of ShTlmati Socheta Kripalani: Mr. us. He was very anxious to bring us Chairman, the motion moved by forward; he was very anxious to re Shrimati Jayashri Raiji seeks the move all discriminations that were deletion of sub-rule (3) of Rule 5 there against us. I remember—it is of the Indian Administrative Ser* just like a picture before me—once vice (Recruitment) Rules and the when I was speaking with him, a few Indian Police Service (Recruitment) months before his death, he said: Rules. I consider this sub-rule as highly discriminatory against women; and not only women but even a larfre section of men are shocked to see this rule introduced in the Civil VfiiFT I ” Service Recruitment Rules. % He wanted the lowest among U9 , This has come as a surprise and a the most depressed amongst us to fill shock to us because it is quite con the highest post. That was the atti- 3603 Jtfotiom re: 28 SKPTKlilBER 1954 Service Rules 3 6 0 4 [Shrhnati Sucheta Kripalani] tude of Gandhiji and with great deal Home Minister that in other parts ot of affection and care he brought us the world, we have seen women, forward. Thus he created an atmos mothers of children, performing the phere in the country and the leaders most difficult tasks. I went to Russia who followed Mahatma Gandhi are a few months back. There, to my actuated by the same spirit. That is very pleasant surprise, I discovered why, perhaps, we have had a better not in the western part of Russia but and easier time than women in many in the eastern or Asiatic Russia—^in other countries, who have had to Uzbekistan,—we visited the Farhad struggle for their rights. dam, there we found a tablet with How have these rights come to us? the names of three women inscribed They have not come to us as a boon there. That was in memory pf the conferred on us by men. They have women who had built up that dam. come to us as a result of our efforts The heaviest tasks have been per during the last 30 6r 40 years. Our formed by Russian and Chinese Wo women have acquitted themselves men. As our Prime Minister just very well; women who were in the now mentioned, that Indian women farthest villages, uneducated women, have in no way shown that they are women from the poorest to the richest backward, why then do you want homes never hesitated to bear the ut this discrimination in the rules? We most hardships in the struggle for have also to think of other things. freedom. We were not afraid; we were When you make such a provision that sent to the most risky and dangerous on the grounds of inefficiency the wo places and we fulfilled our obligation men may be dismissed, you open the just as men. In recognition of our door for discrimination, you open the services rendered to the freedom door for exploitation, you open the struggle we have attained our rights, door for oppression of women. Sup we have attained this position. That pose a woman worker has fallen oui is why these rules are a great shock with her superior officer, then he can to me. I was greatly surprised when make this ground to harass and get I saw this discriminatory clause. her out. Therefore, I consider sudi rules as not only repugnant to the Besides, I feel that this rule is quite Constitution but also highly unfair. repugnant to the Constitution. I re quest you. Sir. to refer to articles 14, Now-a-days, with the present state 15 and 16 of our Constitution. I am of economic condition in the country^ sure if this matter were taken to the many women are the bread-winnert courts, it would be declared ultra of the family, many women have to vires. Article 16 says that there shall support their sisters and brothers and be equality of opportunity for all many women have to support their citizens in matters relating to employ husbands* families. Suppose a wo ment or appointment to any office man worker is dismissed from ser under the State, In the Constitution, vice, what happens to the members in another article, we have said that of her family? You must think twice there shall be no discrimination on before you pass such rules. I would grounds of religion, race, caste or also appeal to you that instead of sex. So, when we have made such having this provision in this crude provision in the Constitution, how and blatantly discriminatory form> this rule can be framed is beyond my which can hardly stand the scrutiny understanding. of law you can do something else. Suppose a girl is married and In arguing his case, I suppose the she is not able to perform her func hon. Home Minister will say that wo tions efficiently she can be persuaded men who are mothers of children can to resign. I am sure the women of not perform certain functions and India,have got enough honesty and cannot efficiently carry on their work. sense of responsibility to realise that if 1 would like to remind the Kon. they cannot perform thefar duties they 3 60 5 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3606 should vacate the posts. 1 am sure this rule. The question of married l£ she is treated properly, if she is women entering public service has handled properly, sne will be ready engaged the attention of not only the to resign her post. Therefore, it will Home Minister of India, but the Home be very wrong to pass this kind of Minister in U.K., in America, in rule against the women of India who Russia, in China, in fact, all over the -have done their duty and played world. In the U.K. this question their role to help you in the fight for came for discussion and Mr. W. A. freedom and in building up the Robson has written a book The Bri nation. It is a very iniquitous pro tish Civil Servant, and in that book vision and I hope the hon. Home he has given his arguments on the Minister will remove it from the subject. It is said that woman can rules. not find sufficient time to attend to public service when she has a home^ Kumari Annie Masearene: I rise to and he replies to it by saying— oppose the rule framed against women and to support the motion of Mr. V. P. “It is .barely susceptible to Kayar. logic since it enlists passion and prejudice and the whole force of These rules are framed to maintain traditional resistance to changes [Kumari Annie Mascarene] specialised because they are married Minister and he can rest assured that women. As the Prime Minister when he stands for the next election^ agreed, a married woman as a we shall vote him out. teacher is much better than an un married woman, and so also a mar The writer goes further and says— ried woman as a nurse is still better than an immarried nurse. This is **In so far, then, as the admis the position in public health and in sion of women to the Civil Ser teaching. When I went to the vice is designed to bring the ad U.S.S.R., I noticed that there is no ministration into closer relation field where women have not entered, with the tone and temper of the and when I asked I was told that dur public which it serves, the mar ing the second world war, nine mil riage bar frustrates that object. lion men had been killed and their Until it is removed, and until places had to be filled up by women, public servants can be drawn and the women rose to the occasion from the most appropriate mem and they have discharged their duty bers of all sections of the com to the best of their capacity and have munity, the chief advantage which built up the Russian nation today, I women can bring will remain find that in Russia no man has any limited and restricted; and no^ quarrel for women entering any fear of innovation, or of staff field of service. I have seen them as complication, ought to be allowed engineers, I have seen them as to interfere with the fullest architects, I have seen them nmning development of the service.” motor cars, lorries and trains. I have seen them as station masters and in all capacities and they have not main In support of your permissive rule tained their homes unhappy. On the I wish to say only one thing that it other hand, I am glad to tell you is perhaps necessary to maintain the that married life in Russia is quite character in the Civil Service. Sir, it different from what it is represented is very necessary that women who to us here. There, the married life enter the Civil Service should main is rendered very happy by employ tain the integrity of the public ser ing both husband and wife in service vice by their serious and business-like and they have a rule that a husband character. I do not agree with those who keeps the wife at home is pena women who come into public service lised by asking him to pay a tax of to ruin and destroy homes and en 90 roubles a year. The moment she courage men to commit bigamy. Wo is employed, he has not to pay the man is as much to be blamed as man tax. I asked the reason and they told is, because there are some women as me that the economic independence there are many such men that this on the part of husband and wife is rule had to come into prominence. an insurance against bad character Sir, you will please take stringent and they lead quite a happy married measures not only on the man who life. The children's provision is made commits bigamy, but the woman who by the State who looks after the child helps to commit bigamy. Dismiss ren and sends them to school. Home both from service. That will be a is not broken. The children are not better course to adopt than retaining brought up by the State as we are a record of disqualification on my told. The home is not broken and I sex from generation to generation. have visited many homes of the rich and the poor and I have found that The Prime Minister said that it is the father, the mother and the child only permissive. The moment he is ren are enjoying complete family gone, the moment people like him who life and they are all happy. There steer the ship of State today are gone fore, this rule is peculiar to the Hod^ from their positions, this rule will 3609 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3610 become rigid and precedents will be amft I fW inr*T ?h ?h w < ^ created to confirm this rule and take away the character of permissiveness f«i> «nr qf^r-q^ ^ ?h}- f from it. The Prime Minister, we ?rt 5TW? ^T5f *f know, is well-meaning, and sincere, # ^ >fT ^ afft ^ W but we cannot take it as an assurance for a long time to come. We want t I am ^ 3r5PT-3tcm- ^ the removal of this clause. If you «jrar f ?rf f i r # ^ an «mfr retain this clause, please apply it to both the sexes and do not show any f I r>T 5lW W ?Rr discrimination in this age when in our i$enhnr amf f aift a r r ^ struggle for freedom we stood shoul W e f r ^ IpTRf f I ^ f aR?^ der to shoulder with you. Let us continue to stand shoulder to shoiil- f^HTT ?fw i «iFf 4 3^ w ?rt r>n^ ^ der in future also and by our unstint ^ <1? atft ed service and sacrifice and co-opera tion build a solid nation. w ft atft yir f P«c r r o r iH'w'ji qip ?nir flPTi 3^, 5HV»r rr ^ ^Nrt* *pt ^ 5Tif ^ 2TW? «r? w?ft f a jft if 5if*T w ^ f5r<3 ^ ^ qffg'TT ^ ^ i f# if fir fVi*r ^ sriVfl ^ ^ ^ ^ it ^ ^ ^ AH ari*? tr? ?rf *13 ?f?nf ^ ariV?r a m r 't s F a r ^ ^ I wf m fnft ^ ^ aw i«n 3(ft >5^«/ ^ n r I ?ff 5^ aiT fir ^ P^tf) ^pr aifra liNrf ^ t w ? ^ if* i srtW f ^ *r «r^ I si* ^ «CT ?n?55«i! f ^ 5 ; fs* ^ ^ ifp r ariVsr ^ ^ «»rn ^nt?T3 f«i! ^ ^ ^ «it 5 ^ T5»T^ ?rf^ ^ fi%*i^c 5TW ^*TT^?nr •r^ *trn^ t , vft^ *rm?& f ^ ^ ?W I *Vl^ ^ !RT ^ f I 3PT< ^ ^ tfkj ^ /I ^ why should this ban be put on the statute book in respect of women? ^ f^nrsr ^ 3T*r, ^ qw*^ It is a well recognised fact and ac ^ ?rt i^^snfw *n5i;«T ihft «n, apai^ cepted principle in every country in. f5T ?TR?tr 5ll HIM,HI?^H the world today that women also par *n?i;»r ^ f ticipate in every branch of nation- building activities. Otherwise the fe W h o R aJWT a w ^ 7 ^ t country cannot go forward. Indian ’n ^ viRT 'Tjroi’ arpft women have shown their worth by nf^Teft ?IWb ?IhI «JT ^ ?Nt taking a leading part in the struggle for freedom. They have gone into v f W , f?nft ^ ?rfsNr q^ ^iht ^ prisons with children in their arma^ ST^ srnr ^rir4, f^r ?n^ *rraf ^ ?i^W 'and made enormous sacrifices. So a riW ®)«r «tht «it * r i ^ liow c^n it be said that women can not make these sacrifices and they are i , UiW ^ rrtV^ ^ t not efficient? Married women can be • ^ ^ ^ I 3HT? ariVw as efficient as any one else, provided 1^ OMiJJrfit the State provides these safeguards and conditions which will ensure edu ?7 5Tni ^ «JHT ^ cational, health and economic welfare «R*T ^ g ifW Shrimatl Sushama Sen: I quite agree iTf) s with the last speaker that women arwrv *i3hr*r, T? should t>e given the discretion whether they are capable of taking up any sf arr^ft wmf ^ f service^ or not. ^ ^5TRT ^ I ^ ?srHr T!T^ ^hPTTf a n # ? h r M sr?? ^at a m r ^ aiTjf *n 5T an?f t»>^ f apjBR aiFW^ WHras* f» fe^tM«pNR wv *r ihn a n r r*nVt an^^o ij-o qr^o ^tW rr ^ ^riW , ^ ^ ariVrr f aif? ariW «RT artVrf it hn^ 4 ^ ^ artW ^ vy a '»iiy^ , aif? ^ ^ I <5T^ ^jW ir «»m a riW ^ 3|f? qf^ ^ qfrf ^ ^ f I w r y rfl f 1 ajft r?r ^JirinpsJ rsr >nv ^ f^hrw ^iNw w ?nw ^ ^ ^ f r*n ^ f I ?TT ^ ^JTT wrarr Mflnn ^ *1^ if vsffv ariVrr »i^ ^ »if^ ariW f ^ ariVof ) anr >TOT [P andit T h ak u r D as B h a rg ava in the chair.] >n ^rnnrfff Vwraf ^ ir ^ v i n v w I yw ^ inr OTT ^ ^ f , ^njar ^ atf? ?n v jI* *iWt *rf li^ I a irr ^ w^fhcf ^ aih ift HFrt»T- ^inr arw i «rWt ^rfcH ifK t »BT *5ViTOi ^ ? i M jt m >f*(T, 5W *if^ ^ ^ t if aifr?r recommended that women should 5rt*T qJrrf f , ?tf r»T ?r>T|nf have a ‘fair fleld and no favour*' I* 3ft ^ VgTXff ^ women have gradually been given greater opportunities." «T I am m r ^ British Service Rules had kept thit clause which was removed when the f I «n ^mrr ^ in ^ ^ 5^ ^ ^ Congress Government came inlir ^ I ^^rni!T? ^ iV? power, and we all regret that again ^ ^sfrt^ hi anft v|t f H t this rule which was removed has hem mtroduced, that an effort has been J#TT ap^ «nw ?f I WT?r ^ made to introduce this rule again. f^T^Tw f I i( ?fk arhn?rf ^ This rule may not be against th* Constitution, perhaps, but certainly ^ ^ m?TT ^ T? 5TT^ 3nq- it discriminates between married and ^ ?^rn ^ Ti t \ ^ unmarried women. And that will cre 3lfW ^ fau ^ ^ ^ 3TFT ate a great dissatisfaction amongst 11m minds of women. Perhaps, there wiB aiPSkr^r ^ ^ n| f i ^ ^ be tension also in the minds of gfxU f ^ ^ ^ 3rlW whether to select a career or marriagi; ^ 3nr^ gr!^ and this will have very bad effect on our society. Morality, I would sty, ^ 3rr?ft srf? «Ti5 will suffer. Perhaps girls will foregi ^ ^ ^ ^ I if fcfR 3nfk their marriage and this may affect their psychology or mentality. We aff ^15^ fv ro" ^ ^ ^ know that it is not a very desirabii thing that girls should remain splat f??rqf f?n3 I ters. After all, women would like in marry and settle down, but that doe« Mr. Chairman: Shrimati Jayashrl. not mean that women should fortgi Shrl P. N. Rajabhoj: (Sholapur— the right which unmarried girls can Reserved—Sch. Castes) rose— enjoy. I would like to say that in serving our country, women are ke«i Mr. Chairman: The hon. Member to help the Government. must be gallant enough. It is now the ladies’ turn I would like to read out a few Shrimati Jayashrl: I am obliged to by Shri Vinobaji who himself said re you for giving me this opportunity to cently in order to encourage women express my view on this subject. I to come out to work. In the Harijan^ have sent in an amendment also to Vinobaji has said: Rule 5(3). ‘'After swaraj some work has, We are grateful to the Prime Minis of course, to be done by Govern ter for the tribute paid to the women ment, but there are many lines of of India and we are glad that he has work which the Government can given us the assurance that there will not do. The women are to be be no barrier between the sexes. brought out of the purdah, Women, as we all know, played an We know that swaraj has been important part in winning swaraj, and achieved under the leadership ai after winning swaraj we are as keen Mahatma Gandhi. to help in the economic prosi>erlty and well-being of our country as we are ?nn?hr : all keen to serve in a way which will ^ ^ 3n5*o 150 qito irt not deprive the country of efficiency. As Shrimati Sucheta Kripalanl and 5TfV^ ? some other Members also have said, Shrimati Jayashrl:, Vinobaji is also we are honest enough to see that the a great follower of Mahatma Gandhi efficiency in the services does not We are glad that the intention of our suffer. Prime Minister also is to help the T would like to draw the attention women to preserve their status in so of the Members to the fact that the ciety, and I am glad that today ha 445 L.S.D. 3633 Motions re: 28 SKPTEMBER 1854 Service Rulet 3624 (Shrlmati Jayashri] another wife? There is nothing in given an assurance that perhaps this rule to say that a man, after being libere may be a few words in the rules selected, should not marry a second trhich are not correctly put and ihey time. So, if we can add ^ese words: may be changed. '*nor will any man be entitled to be continued in service if he I take this opportunity to suggest takes another wife when he has that instead of having a negative rule.. already a wife living” . wt can change this wording and say ttmt ‘‘marriage shall not be a bar to That will bring more confidence in a woman for employment in Central the minds of women. I know that our Government service, but the Govern Government want to bring about the ment can call upon a married woman prevention of bigamous marriages, but to resign if it feels that efficiency has if these words can be added in the iuffered on account of her married rules also. I am sure it will bring con •tate” . Though we would not like fidence to the minds of the women. I that married women should be depriv put these suggestions before the Minis ed we are all keen to see to the effi ter. ciency in Services. In a publication of the Government, regarding “Our Mr. Chairman: Shrimati Ila Pal- police” , Government themselves have choudhury. MUid: “The women police, compara ^ 0 ^ 0 inmhr: ^ hW tively a new development in our country, has fulfilled a long-felt want. It is now generally recog nised that certain duties are best performed by women.” Shrl R. K. Chaudhurl (Gauhati): Has the debate become one-sided? I would like to request the Home Minister to change this wording so Shrlmati Ua Palchoudhury (Naba- that women will not be offended, and dwip): We have had an assurance... it would look more graceful also in Mr. Chairman: Order, order. There our Service Rules. We know that at present in any civilised society equali is so much noise in the House. The hon. Member is not audible. ty of opportunity and rights for men and women is now one of the accept ed conventions of progress and civili Shrlmati Ila Palchoudhury: We have sation. Even in the Human Rights had an assurance from the Prime Commission we have given rights of Minister over this rule that we are all work and opportunity irrespective of objecting to, and we hope that his sex, and we know that the Govern assurance will come into force. I beg ment of India have accepted the to disagree with the hon. Member human rights. opposite who. has just now said that she would vote the Home Minister out Another suggestion I would like to of his Ministership over this issue. I make is with regard to the other would not go as far as that, because, clause, with regard to bigamous mar after all, I think a known Home riages. Here also I would like to Minister is better than an un make a suggestion. In that rule you known Home Minister. So, I would have .said: say that he wiftl perhaps change his “No person who has more than views. one wife living shall be eligible 5 P.M. for appointment to service” . In ancient India, women took Now, what happen if the man, after active part in state events. They were being appointed, re-marries, marries never behind men in anything. They 3625 Motions re: 28 SEPTEICBBR 1954 Service Rulee 3626 were considered equal to men in Sbrlmati Ila PalchosdluuT: Women any sphere. They had their part are the frailer vessels. I agree with in public life. There are many illua- that. There are times when they need trations, the beauteous Padmini care and rest and inevitable absence counselled about state affairs, Mirabai from duty. When the future genera gave the perfume of her intense re tion is in their care; when they hold ligious life, in song and poetry to tlie in themselves the coming child, they are whole of India and who can forget the hanicapped, for the time beihg, and Rani of Jhansi who took up the cud the State should be prepared to pro gels for her country. Everybody vide for that. But on that ground, knows that Draupadi herself had a the State should not lose their effi-* unique position. Today, women have ciency. It is usually a normal func proved that they can shoulder res tion, and she has hardly to be absent ponsibilities. They are no farther be for more than two or three months on hind men, than many men are behind this account. Any illness could over women. I suppose efficiency differs take a man at any time, and he would everywhere. If one were to take up need to absent himself. All the de statistics, one could show many partments keep extra hands for this figures, but I will not take up the purpose, in order to meet those con time of the House by showing many tingencies. To balance this, let us see figures, except just these few. In what there is. There is the fact that England today, in Russia and China women are conscientious and as well, women are doing all sorts of hard-working, and they are out Jobs. Here is a book which says that to put in their best efforts. They are “ in England, women today form about new to certain extent in these one-third the total number of civil spheres in India to-day. I claim that, servants. They fill about half the because they are new, they have en gazetted posts, and about 20 per cent, thusiasm; because they are new, they of the executive, and about 12 per have idealism; and because they are cent, of the administrative posts new, they are out to prove them are filled by women. These coun selves. Surely, that opportunity can tries do not find them inefficient not be denied to them. Will you not Surely, in India, today, they are therefore, keep open the doors of the going to be given the opportunity services to a large section of the that they deserve. They have shown population? Are you going to lose that they are efficient. Today, we the efficiency of a great number, have only to look at our own Health just because you wish to put an irra Minister, and we see how efficiently tional bar on married women? she is going about her office. We have to see Shrimati Vijaya Lakshmi; Acharya Kripalanl: What about she is acclaimed all over the world. the efficiency of Ministers? (Interrup Dr. Sushila Nayar is doing a job that tions). no man can do better. (Interrupt tions). Again Shrimati Sarojini Shrimati 11a Palchoudhary: The Naidu, the Songbird of India, ad solution lies in getting a few extra ministered with imagination, sym hands, and in enabling them to look pathy and understanding. I admit after their children. that there is the other side of the picture too. It i§ argued that a woman in em ployment is a man out of employ Dr. Katjtt: The other side of the ment. I agree that it is true, to a ptclure is clearly dark. certain extent. But there are cases where the women are the bread Shrimati Ha Palchoadhorj: No, it winners. There are cases of widows is not entirely dark. who are supporting their children and the family, and in a welfare Shrimati Sncheta Krlpalaiil: There state, emplojrment must be foimd for may be light in the dark. all. 3627 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3628 [Shrimati Ila Palchoudhury] Lastly, in all fairness, there should The Home Minister began to tell us be equal opportunity for equal capa that this was put in there because city. When they have proved them there is a similar provision in the selves in competitive examinations case of men, to the effect that no and pitted their brains and minds person shall be considered for ap against the men, they must be given pointment to the Service, if he had every fair chance to hold the jobs more than one wife living. Because that these examinations entitle them this rule is there, they began to tell to. us and mislead us that we should also agree to have rule 5(3). Here, we The Indian woman is second to are ready to have it, provided in the none in her selfless sacrifice and in other rule also, there can be a vice her ability. She can yet be the versa. But in the other rule, no one mother, who is like Annapurna her will agree to have a vice versa. That self; in spite of doing all sorts of jobs, is why we feel that this is discrimi she can yet be the wife like Sita her nation against sex, and this is against self, because with her ultimate love the Constitution that we have in for her husband, she can conquer all India. If we allow married women circumstances. {Interruptions), to work, what harm is there, because we know in the younger generation Acharya Krlpalani: Even if she is there is family planning, and they in the administrative service? have two children only? How much time is required for bringing up and Shrimati Da Palchoudhury: Yes, looking after two children? Life is I should like to say that the Prime so long, and only ten years may be Minister gave us an assurance. But required to bring up and look after as Bernard Shaw himself has said, the two children. I find that the hon. “ fine words butter no parsnips” , and Home Minister seems to be very an a mere assurance will not do. We xious about the children of a very want that clause deleted from the few higher class women, only one rules, and women given a fair chance. per cent, of whom are employed in the I.A.S. But if he is so anxious ShrUnati Maydeo (Poona South): about the children of India that At the outset, I thank the Prime women should take care of them, he Minister for giving compliments to should begin his planning from be the women of India. At the same low, and we should see that in the time, I must say that no compliments next Five Year Plan, we are going can justify his consent to the Home to begin planning from below and Minister to put in such a rule in the not from above. Let us turn our Indian Administrative Service (Re attention from the highest official, cruitment) Rules. i.e., the I. A. S. Officers to the low In these days of civil liberty and est officials, namely, the scavengers. equality of opportunity, it was really Have we ever turned our attention astonishing to find such a rule in the to them? Have we ever thought about Indian Administrative Service (Re them? What is their condition? They cruitment) Rules. Rule 5(3) reads: are also servants of municipalities, which means, of government. The “No married woman shall be report of the Scavengers* Living Con entitled as of right to be appoint- ditions Enquiry Committee, under ted to the Service, and where a the presidentship of Kaka Saheb woman appointed to the Ser Darve, has recommended that in the vice subsequently marries, the next Five Year Plan at least, the Central Government may, if the women scavengers should not be al maintenance of the efficiency of lowed to carry tubs of refuse on their the Service so requires, call heads. Now, they carry refuse on upon her to resign.” their heads, even sometimes with 3629 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3630 fitfht-month old babies in their womb». just forgot to lock the bathroom. But we are not attentive to these When one of her friends went near diflficulties of these people. We will the bathroom, she saw that there was only look to one per cent of I.A.S. a razor and some other things which women and feel that they will not are useful for men. So they all look after their children or that they thought that she was leading an im will neglect their children. These moral life. They told the boss about women—poor women—have given it; ‘Look here, she has told you that birth to 8 or 9 children and even she is unmarried. But there must be then, they are supposed to do their some one in her house, a male per Work efficiently. They lose so many son. So she is leading an immoral among their children on account of life*. The boss told his wife to go poverty and only one or two survive. to her and explain to her that it was So what I would suggest to the Home very bad to lead an immoral life. Minister is to start planning from So the boss’s wife went to this woman below instead of from above. and just shouted! at her and raifted at her saying; ‘It is no good. You The other difficulty which was should not lead an immoral life’. pointed out was that when a woman Then the woman told her; ‘It is be in service got married, she would cause your husband has made this ask for a transfer. But that does not rule that no married woman will be mean that there should be a rule—a allowed to serve. I am married. general rule—excluding women from This is my wedding ring. This is service. The Government can be very my marriage certificate*. The boss’s firm in their policy and say that they wife immediately went to her won’t allow any woman to get trans husband, the manager of the firm and ferred. Then she would decide whe told him: ‘You are making these ther to serve after marriage or resign. foolish rules, and this is the repercus But there should not be a generalised sion of that. So you must at once eli rule for that reason. She will under minate that rule and allow married stand her duty. women to serve in your firm’. Then, supposing a woman is select So that will be the case, supposing ed in the I.A.S. she must be of remark the Home Minister tries to have rules able intelligence or capability. I can like that. If you want women to do assure you that if the woman is of their jobs as they like, if you want such a capability and intelligence, her efficient service, then I suggest what mother or her mother-in-law, who is the Government should do is to give very sympathetic to her, will not them their rights, that means, the allow her children to be neglected. right of succession. Then they should She will look after the children at say that if a man marries, he will home and allow her to go for service. get 25 per cent, increment so that his So Government need not be anadoui wife should not be required to work. whether she will neglect her children If you pass such rules, then you need or not not be afraid that there will be in There is another tiling. Supposing efficiency in the work or that married we do not allow women in service, Women will go after service and then what will happen? They will neglect their children. try to hide the fact that they are [M r. D k pu ty -S pkaker in the Chair] married. T^ere was an example like that ih a private firm. They I would request the Home Minister made a rule that no married woman that he should think over this issue should be allowed to serve. One aijd omit rule 5(3). Even afier so married woman just kept it as a se many requests from all the women cret that was married. One day Members, he tries to keep it in the her friends pressed her to Invite them rules. I may lust warn him, Mr. to her house. She had told her hus Deputy-Speaker, that fortunately I band to come home late. But she have ah organisation, aii all-IndiR or- 3631 Motions rt: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3632 [Shrimati Maydeo] m «»rr 5T^ V? if' i r r ganisation to which 1 have access, and ?ih(^ r*f iw n ^ ^ we will not allow him sound sleep or peace of mind. He will be haunted always in his dreams by women threatening him and then ultimately he will have to detele this rule and get ^ *j)i{VMI 51^ mrtft I peace of mind. ^ ^ fFf ^Tf^n atrawp c; I rHT^ ^ ^ ^ ^ «ft ^ ^ an^ ^ W ? r r ^ ^ ^ ^ f arh fsrai? ^ Mr. Depaty-Speaker: I am going to c5?r^ ^ ^ 5n?ft # I iTET ^ call a Schedluled Cast representative, Shrimati Ganga Devi. ?5f^ j f 5Tff f W t v sii ir iW y frnrai str ^ 5t an«f srrf >3T<^?‘Ta ^ ^srriW): ir iW v fV^ ^ ^ ^ 3TTir ^ <5?r«rt‘ ^ 5T ^ 5rr wap >T? if ^ # I ift ?r 3n I r f r irf% ^ arfand^ ^ h W ^ ^ iTRTT t ^ ^ ^ ijcPqPHt^?g-q eN iihr Tf 5T ?IP^ ^mT^mr m w f , ^ ^ PriTj 5mr 4 ^ P«raT? ^ art? ^ ptto ^ ^ ariV anvWB grffTj i ^ ^hfT arcrvm ^ ^ I irvn ^ ifT^rf ^ 15^ ^ fTT aTRpft HTT ?l} BIST H orfer ¥ft ajnr aift i M stpt WT arrr ? wt *11 ^T*P ^ ? H*?V i t wwJ «^ ? furrt 4 P««i fimr ?n5?nr a>rapft «W^ an *iw ^ Te srnsn ifti^ ift* ? ^ ^nnr aiw ifr < f « Vqqifgw P^W «»(V ^ «F? ^ ^ ¥T arf? ITT? m f ^ If w *jNst V n r i t ? • c*n^ arr »d rw ^ r»^ siwft f aift in I 4 fem e 5^ 5inf*ft I p r ^ w >ft «w ^ w*iT c*r ^ ^ 3T?T W |R 7 ? R r ^1^5 «i I ^TJ H ?nr ^ »nT7 grriNt ?rt r*n^ tw^ t5 sifyr; innr ?nnr *nn it \ ^ ^ H 5PTr ^ ^ vnr ^ ^<*J f5rq lA rry 5pti^ airr^ a»ft ^ 3fft ^•1 3taVwh < ?nfT ^ «n # anr ^ f«i; ■+(15 J} ^ ^ '4^1 5 *11/ ^ 8"FT7r fm f yrfrtr sir i fnrqr? )»n ^ 1 ^ c ; f » ^ ^«(T ^ ^>T*T ^ttht ffT Jif ^ 5T^ V T ^ ?rrf?Tj, ^ ?r*iiT f ^ i:5?i-TT vft q ^ ^ iTff ^nr^j- arRrr i f^fnPT ?if w ?n c fT?T^ T?^ *mjT i W ^ ^Tff HTvn ^ f?n? jtor ^ vt^ »ft 5T?? ^ I f^rtfn? pr nt?r^ itt *m?rr 5T WSTRI «ff f ^ R m ihlT I Ttf ^ «b1i' fr^ ^mnr ^ rt'’ Shri GadcU (Poona Central): Mr jnin ^ erfrtr jt an^ i pr ir^ ^ Deputy-Speaker, I will not refer to the assumed disabilities or the appre iriWy «pmn thVJ grW^ ^ hended discrimination which has been jii- H arevni i referred to by most of the ladies so eloquently. My advice to them is to hrfsRCT iniT ^ m»NT ^ trust in the IMme Minister and, till ^ ^ hrnhnr ??w ijTy»t?‘«t^ - the assurance mat^alises, to rule the men rather than rule the affairs of «FPi7r *f sr 5T^ gf the country. What I am concerned most, Sir, Is ♦I'll'* 5«^ Wl'#>'4 ffW I wHu I dH^l *11 with Rule 4, namely, the method of jft ?*iRr ^w»ii ^iPnj ^5 yrr ^rttt ffKwnr recruitment to the services. In this ?5T«rf «t arw ? fjV ^spniw w»n>t 4 there is a significant omission and reference to this aspect of the rule iWft hrww it "isTR- f [Shri Cadgil] fact, doing all the preliminary work proper administration of the Central so far as administrative decisions are Secretariat. concerned. In any good service which is charged with the duty of running In 1948 and 1949, a good deal of a modern State, there must be two Attention and thoiight was given by aspects present. One aspect is, there the Government to this question and, must be one cadre or, so to say, one after elaborate consultation with the service which will be the custodian Provincial Governments then, a cer of all the knowledge, which will be tain scheme was drawn up, which the custodian as regards procedure was known as the Indian Administra and routine. We might say whatever tive Service, Central Secretariat we like against red-tape but some Scheme. That scheme was prepared minimum red-tape is absolutely neces by no less an experienced administra sary. The other aspect is that at a tor than the late Gopalaswami Ayyan- proper level of the hierarchy as well gar and that scheme was approved as at the proper stage of the life of by the States. There was some ini the person concerned, there must be tial objection but, after explanations some sort of induction so as to secure were offered, they were accepted and freshness of outlook and some ex all the Provincial Governments ac perience of acfual administration in cepted that scheme. That scheme the field. From that point of view, shortly was this. this scheme which was proposed and approved by the Cabinet was an ideal Out of the total number of officers one. I do not know why there has that will Iman the Central Secreta been a departure from this. As I riat, 50 per cent, were to be from the understand, and I am informed, it was LA^. Officers who will be given on because the Chief Secretaries of the deputation or a sort of tenure contract various States that met in conference to the Central Secretariat; about 20 about a few months back—I think in per cent, were to be on what was des April last—came to the conclusion cribed as a quasi-permanent deputa that these members of the Central tion on quota from the various States Secretariat Service should not be re and about 30 per cent, were to be cruited to the Indian Administrative from the Central Secretariat Services Service. themselves. If you refer to rule 4, the constitu Now, this was an ideal arrangement tion is like this. Men pould be re and I cannot describe it better than cruited by competitive examination, to quote the words of the late Go and by promotion of members of the palaswami Ayyangar. State Civil Services. If promotion 4 “The scheme has evolved pro O f a member of a State Civil Service posals which should eliminate the is considered to be good, correspond existing difficulty and produce an ingly, on the same level is the ser All India Service so organised vice of Central Secretariat, Class I. and worked as to produce person Whether the people belong to the nel not only for immediate re- Central Secretariat Service. Class I, or quirementi ' but the ultimate to the Provincial Civil Service of a needs, which is as good as could particular State, or they come through be obtained under the existing the open door of competitive exami circumstances.” nation, more or less they come from the same strata of society, more or One who is familiar with the work less they have the same intellectual ing of the Central Secretariat will equipment and so on. Generally, easily appreciate the great and im it is the same, but there are, portant part the Central Services of course, brilliaht exceptions who men play, not only in the forrhulation are far above the average, but of the liollci^s of the Gk)vemment, speaking in terms of average, but also in supplying the data, in they are practically ‘on the same 3637 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3638 level. It happen! as a mere chance or of Under Secretary. After serving, accident that if twenty are recruit say, fifteen years of service, if he is ed, the boy is put at twenty-one. to remain continuously with that Does it mean that he is so inferior? status and if he is not to have any Because he is recruited to the Cen chance of getting into a higher cate tral Secretariat Service, Class I, does gory by way of promotion, provided it mean that all his future prospects he has got the requisite experience or promotion should be barred? In and talent, I think the morale of that any scheme of salary, in any pattern Service will be considerably affected. of service, a modem government has There is a certain class consciousness to see that there is continuous incen Jn each cadre, whether you belong tive right from the moment of recruit to the Central Secretariat Service, or ment to the day of retirement. You the Provincial Service or the Indian cannot ask the people to have the Administrative Service. If a certain same enthusiasm, to show the same proportion from the lower grades can amount of energy and alertness in aspire to go high, then I think the the work unless there is some incen morale is boosted and anything which tive for them to do it. There is a goes contrary to this is bound to aflect time-scale which works on automati the efficiency of the jadministration. cally. Thereafter, there is what i« May I, therefore, suggest to the Gov known as the scheme of selection, but ernment that if they want more time even then, as you see the Provincial to think over the matter, they should Service, there also people are recruit certainly take more time. I also find ed in certain percentage from the the objection of the Chief Secretaries lower services to the Provincial Ser was not so much to the scheme as It vice. Here again, you have made pro is, but they were against what is vision that members of the Provincial known as the quasi-permanent de Service should be recruited to the putation of members to the Indian Indian Administrative Service. I fall Administrative Service from the res to see what logic is there in prevent pective provinces. Because they object ing or excluding members belonging ed to a part of the scheme, it does to the Central Secretariat Service, if not mean or it shall not be predicated they are otherwise suitable, from as being opposition to the total getting into the Indian Administrative scheme. If I interpret their objection Service. As I said, the principle of correctly, then there Is some hope incentive and its importance cannot and some justification for the Gov be belittled. I cannot do better than ernment to review the whole matter. quote from the Report on Public Ad My humble submission is this. I ministration made by Mr. Gorwala— am not concerned with A or B or C, but I am concerned with this matter “ It is very desirable that x>eo- because I have some experience, very pie in the lower grades of the humble experience, of five years' public service should be given work in the Central Secretariat and adequate opj^ortunity to prove I feel that top people may come and their fitness /for more res go, but those officers of the Central ponsible work.. What is necessary Secretariat Service, Class I, are there is to evolve a system by which for years together and I may say they those among the lower ranks who l^iQw much more than the Secreta are fit for higher positions can be ries an,d certainly much more ithan discovered and appointed; if they tl^e presiding Ministers—I mean no disclose talent, there should be otf^nce to anybody. scope for their advancei^ept ii> The Minister of Agrteiilt«re (Dr. the higher service/* P, 8; Deshmiikh): A very good con 'n • ■ ‘ • .-''Vi ; fession! ' Even assuming that one reaches , the top post in the Central Secretariat As citizens, what we Service, he cannot go beyonii the post tox-payeru are concerned about 1$., Service Rules 3639 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 3640 [Shri Gadgill that the Central Secretariat should Ganga Devi, who spoke, belongs to th» be managed efficiently and that, for Scheduled Castes. the purpose of efficiency, a proper con^ltution of a cadre for Central Shri P. N. RaJabhoJ: But she belongs Service is an absolute necessity. I am to the Congress. conscious that people will say that Mr. Deputy-SpeaUer: Let not the these men must have district experi hon. Member again and again inter ence. You can send people who are rupt like this. selected, for a year or so in order that that objection can be removed. After Dr. Katju: We have had a most all, the ‘hard core’ of the Central interesting, a most eloquent and a Secretariat Service is constituted by most appealing debate. I have, how these people. Please do not do them ever felt that it has been somewhat any injustice, especially when you unrealistic and somewhat theoreticaL have promised in 1950 that you would Before I say a few words, I should implement the scheme in 1951. You like to draw your attention to the started implementing a little and background. The background is the then dragged on, and complete imple country becoming independent in 1947, mentation has not followed. As and this question immediately cropped surances were given to them by the up. So fa/* as Government is concern predecessor of the present Home ed, so far as people on this side of the Minister, Shri C. Rajagopalachari, that House are concerned, they need no no wrong would be done to them. Now, persuasion that in the field of public I am very sorry that there seems to duty, men and women are absolutely be some wrong done if the rule re equal and entitled to absolutely equal mains as it is. I would, therefore, rights and equal opportunities. The urge a review of the whole situation. only question was that public service Shri P . N. Eajftbhoj: I want to put should not in any way be prejudiced. one question, Sir. The public servant exists for the pur pose of serving the public. The public Mr. Depaty-Speaker: No. The hon. service does not exist for any particular Home Minister will now reply. class of people. This question cropped Shri P. N. RaJabhoJ: I want to put up and then a decision had to be taken, it because it is an insult to my com and it was taken in 1948 that in every , public service of any description, mer^ munity...... and women were entitled to equal ad- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: May be. mission» equal rights, but over and above that, there was the question that Shri P. N. RaJabhoJ: I am very there might be some Services which sorry you are ignoring my community’s might require additional qualifications problems. I have no confidence in the and where this factor of marriage might Home Minister so far as the Scheduled prove an impediment. It is not a Castes* Interests are concerned ...... question of sex or difference between man and woman, but the question of Mr. Depnty-Speaktf: Order, order. the public interest should not be pre^ The hon. Member cannot go on talking judiced in any way. A decision was like this. Thf hon. Member alwayi taken. In regard to certain Services— says on the floor of the House that he the Prime Minister referred particular is the only and exclusive representa ly to the Indian Foreign Service—^this tive of the Scheduled Castes, whidi I factor of marriage should be a relevant refuse to recognise, and if he goes on consideration. That policy was, in interrupting like this, I will take vwj 1049, reinforced— I do not know serious notice of it. There are other whether on the floor of the House, but Members who are equally competent in actual fact it was reinforced—by my to reprwwnt the Scheduled Caitei’ very distinguished and honoured pr»* mieresto. For losUnce, Shrimali decessor, Sardar Pat^ 3641 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3642 Then came the Constitution. Some came these rules. The Act for the one asked: what about the proviiioni establishment of the Indian Adminis in the Constitution? The articles to trative Service was passed in 1951. which reference was made were 13» 14, The rules were drafted; the rules vere 15 and 10. In fact, we did take legal sent out to all the State Governments. opinion. The highest legal officer we They took their own time in consider have got, the Attorney-General, was ing them. Please remember that the consulted in July 1950 and he gave his Indian Administrative Service is an all- clear opinion that this is not a case of India service; its members go to every drawing any distinction, or making any single State. The cadre is primarily discrimination between se^ and sex: it for every single State and then we take is only a question of safeguarding the our quota for Central purposes. So, public services from any prejudice the States took time to consider the which might be caused by the factor of matter and finalised the draft. Then marriage. As I said elsewhere, sup came the meeting of the Chief Secre posing a woman were to say: “Well, by taries and these rules represent the the custom of my community or the in united wisdom, or unwisdom of all the junction of my religion. I must keep on State Governments. I am saying this a hnrqa; I cannot appear before the not for the purpose of getting away ordinary public.” Government may be with it. I have now become accustom justified in making a rule that for the ed to the affection of my communist Administrative services or ahy ether friends and the very fine references Service, it is desirable that the appli that they sometimes make to me over cant, or the servant concerned, if she is and over again. But I cannot take a woman, must appear in public and credit for the wisdom of these rules, she must discard this seclusive habit/* because, as I said, it is the concentrat That has nothing to do with the sex. ed wisdom of all the State Govern ments of India. Shrlmatl Sucheta Kripalanl rose— Dr. Katjn: I have got very little In the first place, the speeches which time—I must tell her—and I should be were delivered by my hon. friends, the allowed to go on. lady Members of this House, would lead one to believe that this rule applies Mr. Depaty-Speaker: This has been a to every single married woman in ladies* day: I And from the list that every public service. Nothing of the most of the speakers have been ladies. kind. It only applies to one Service Why should there be any interruption and no other Service. There is no such now? bar in the Teaching Service, in th# Educational Service, in the Engineer Or. Katin: Mr. Deputy-Speaker, 1 am ing Service, in the Indian Medical going to adopt a rule not to look at any Service—there must be about fifty Member, but look at you only. Services; then you have the Central Mr. Depnly-Speaker: The Chair is Secretariat, Provincial Secretariat^ sexless. Class I Service, Class II Service, etc. etc. It applies only to one Service, Dr. KaUa: Government may make a namely, the Indian AdministraUve rule that for a particular Service, every Service. applicant should be of a height of five and a half feet. Now that would in Shrl Bbagwat Jha Aiad (Purnea capacitate and exclude many men and cum Santal Parganas): But why? many women. But you cannot queation it on the groimd of sex. Dr. KaQa: I am coming to it So the Atomey-General gave us his As the Prime Minister pointed out^ opinion that there was no breaking, or it is not exclusive: there is nothing defeating, or defying the letter of the absolute. It does not say you cannot all through from 1948 onwards. Then come in. It is a permissive thing; you Constitutilbn. That practice has stood have no absolute right to come in. 3643 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3644 [Dr. KatjuJ Shrlmati Tarfcesbwarl Sinha: On a Now what is the Indian Administra- point of clarification: I want to know ti^’e Service. If you become a doctor, from the Home Minister...... very well, you are working in your Dr. Katju: 1 have heard of points of dissection room, or operation theatre, order, not points of clarification. or giving medicines lor typhoid, and so on. Similarly, if you are a teacher, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order, you are working under comfortable the hon. Minister may be allowed to conditions in a lecture room, in a Col go on. lege or University, or in a class room in a school. If you are an engineer, Dr. Kaiin: Whenever any Member there you are standing over there, raises a point of clarification, I consider working—you may do what you like. it as a confession of his or her inability If you are a Secretary, whether to comprehend: I do not want any you are a first-class Secretary, Member should make that confession. Joint Secretary, Deputy Secretary, We are discussing a very serious or Under Secretary, you are there matter. I do not want to go into those working all right. But unfortunately other matters. That was the aim and or fortunately, it is only in this Service, object of the rule as it has been fram that you have to deal with other men^s ed and as it has been working for the lives. I am not suggesting for one last seven years. No one has quoted a moment that it is only a man who can single instance, either by name or deal with other men’s lives. Of course, without name, of any injustice having women can do it. They brought every been done. No one has said that any one of us into this world. representation was made and that some body was thrown out. It is not merely The Indian Administrative Service by a question of personal advantage or its very nature—it consists of perhaps, disadvantage. Government has to take 400 or 500 members, I am not sure of notice of the possibility, the remote the number,—may have to shoulder possibility, that cases may occur where en6rmous responsibilities at a time of grave harm may be done to the public which no notice may be given in ad interest because of the inefficiency, vance. My hon. friend quoted me and supposed inefficiency, possible ineffi said that he did not know what the ciency of the person at the head of the word **tazias” means. This is the month Department. of Moharrum and in Northern India, you know, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, that Shrl Bhagwat Jha Azad: Can you at any time trouble may flare up in quote an instance? the Dussehra processions or tazia pro Dr. KatJu: There is no suggestion cessions. The District Magistrate or that in India, unlike Russia, the Gov the Sub-Divisional OfRcer may at deed ernment does not want to utilise the of night receive a notice: ‘‘Come along*’. talents of Indian womanhood for the purpose of building .^canals, for (he Shrlmati Sneheta Krlpalani: How purpose of building bridges, construct many women went out to work during ing houses. Let them become engl. the riots? neers. Who prevents them from becom Dr. Katja: I have taken a vow that ing engineers; or becoming scientists— I shall not answer that. he Is hot here—or becoming colleagues of Dr. Meghnad Saha? There you Mr. Deputy-Speaker, the risks Involv have to go. Let them marry husbands. ed are great and Government have I am only waiting for the day that taken the view that the Central Qov- might come—I hope it might come in emment should have the power to see my lifetime—when Indian ladies wotild to it that women, however fit they may adorn the Benches of our High Courts be otherwise, may not endanger public and dispense equal and Impartial security because of the factor of their Justice. Who prevents them? Who marriage. prevents them from becoming teachers, 3:45 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3646 Superintendents or going to Medical also a public servant? If a woman who CoUeges and other InatitutiontT ' is a public servant knowingly marries a man who is also a public servant and That is just one thing. And of who has got an existing wife (who is course it gave an opportunity to every not a widower), now the husband goes lady Member of this House, with the because he marries a second time. permission of the Deputy-Speaker and But the woman does not marry a second the Chairman, to come forth and declare time by marrying a man who has got a as if some heavens had fallen upon first wife. So far as that woman its them and they are excluded from concerned it is her first marriage. Do every service in India. That is some you want that she should also go? I thing which I do not want. only want a clear consideration because I do not want to carry on this, because we are going to consider Ihe rules and I should like to make it quite clear. drafting the rules and the substance of The Prime Minister has said that these the rules. This is a matter which re are rules which have been made, these quires serious consideration from their are not parts of the law, they can be side. Would you like, please under changed by Government. I undertake stand the question...... to consider every single thing that has been said, matter of substance, leaving Mr. Depaty-Speaker; The hon. Minis* aside the eloquence part of it. And if ter will kindly'address the Chair, there is any substance,—I want to please all of you, I am not wedded to Dr. KatJu: The question is this—so anything—I shall examine. My friend that there may be no difficulty about there was reading her amendment: If it—if a man who is a public seivant you bring marriage this way or that marries a second time he jeopardizes way It would be more graceful. I shall • his employment. But the second wife examine the language, and if your is also a public servant, and with her purpose would be served by putting eyes open she marries a public servant marriage in a positive or negative who is ahready married; she becomes a ^fjytm, there is no harm in doing that. second wife to a public servant. Do my hon. friends, the lady Members, Mr. Dep^j-Speaker: Is there a nega want that something should be done to tive marriage also? that second wife or she should be left Dr. Katjn: There is one thing which alone? may require examination. That may be a sort of omission. I should like to Shrlmati Sucheta Kripalani: Let her get the benefit of the opinion of the lose her job. ady Members on that topic. It is this. The rule provides specifically that a *ro w ?ii; : anft ^ i [public servant who marries two wives, {weD, shaU be got rid of, because bigamy is not provided for. I suggest they might hold a confer Acharya Kripalani: If he has a ence about it consisting pf the lady mistress, what happens? Members of both Houses of Parliament and the one hundred and fifty girls Dr. Katju: My friend is in the habit whom they have brought to Delhi, to [>f putting very persuasive and, what the Parliament Hall. Let them sit and ihall I say, seductive questions. It is give an answer to that question. It is very difficult to answer them. a fundamental question. It interferes I was pointing out—I ask all the with the fundamental right of a woman lady Members to pay particular atten to marry whomsoever she likes. tion to that—under the existing rule if a man marries a second wife, mSL Shrlmati Snclieta Kripabud: Will the he goes. What is to happen if the Home Minister preside over the con second wife whom he has married is ference? 3 ^ 7 Motions re: 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Service Rules 3648 Dr. KMtta: I ^ant to be serious now. So, Sir, with your permission I shall Very many references, personal refer lay this on the Table. ences, have been made to me. Tke ball was set rolling by my hon. friend Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Minis over there. ' ter knows quite well that imless he referred to any passage in the book Acharya Kripalani: Because you are here, it cannot be laid on the Table of so popular. the House. With all respects it will be received and kept in the Library. Dr. Katju: In spite of my attempts and my previous membership of the Dr. Katju: That is all right. I do Communist Party I could not under not want to make a record of it. stand. I only want to say in the end that Shrl V. P. Nayar: Were you ever a while many^friends here have been re member of the Communist Party? peating—I do not know whether serious ly or light-heartedly—this thing about Dr. Katju: That has been followed, equality and that discrimination should and I really do not know what has been not be done, I personally venture to said and what has not been said. If say that there are very few men in you were to enumerate the occasions on India who believe more strongly—and which the word Home Minister has have believed so for the last fifty been used, it must be five hundred. I years—of this cult about equality of want to say one thing very seriously. man and woman, than myself. I say I have now lived in public life for some India cannot prosper, cannot make any time. But I have the good fortune of progress at all unless we hold our liaving been brought up by a mother womenfolk genuinely and with all the who never was a member of a legisla- ^ earnestness that they are equal and en tive assembly, who lived the life of a titled to equal opportunity that India Hindu woman. She was bom in 1859, owes to them. and died at the age of eighty in 1939. 6 P.M. It was at her breast that I learnt that man and woman are equals, they are Shrl P. N. RaJabhoJ: On a point of entitled to equal opportunity, and a order. Sir,...... woman is entitled to live a life of her own. I tell you I would be false to her Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Order, order. if I were to think of any condition in There is no point of order, now. which a woman was to live a life of subordination. I would rather like to Dr. Katju: May I ask the Deputy die first than do that. My lady friends Minister to say a few words, Sir? Or, might like to have a look at it, and I do you propose to call him? want with your permission, Sir, to pre sent to the House and lay on the Table Mr. Depnty-Speaker: I am not going a narrative which I have written about to call him. There is no time. her. It may do her good and I may be understood. ^ ^ 0 ^ 0 3 1 ^ Dr. Rama Rao (Kakinada): In her name, please withdraw this rule. ^ ^ ^ ^ I Dr. KatJu: It pained me to hear 'Is Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order the Home Minister a Ramchandra or please. There is no tima Devata or what?'* And they soy the Prime Minister is very good. Other Dr. Katju: With reference to the point wise, if the Prime Minister had not raised by my hon. friend, Shri Gadgil, intervened I might have been tom into about the Central Secretariat Senrice, pieces by all these kind hearted people. in the summary it was said that the What have I done? In these mles I matter was raised in the Chief Secre iiave given everything. taries Conference and the Government 3649 Motiim re- 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 Allegations of Corruptiorw 3650 Service Rulet against the Deputy Shipping Master^ Calcutta Port have not decided it. Government are Shri Rafhvaanalali: I hope that hon. considering the whole matter and if Minister had reference to my motion necessary we will make a reference to when he said that he will consider it. the Cabinet, and see that there is no Dr. Katju: Yes. hardship there. He can trust me, I shall see that there is no hardship. Shri Raffcuramalah: In view of the assurance, I beg to withdraw. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: I am sorry, this The motion was, by leave, with debate is to conclude by 6 o’clock. It drawn. is now six o’clock. I am not in a posi tion to call upon the Deputy Minister Shri Thlmmaiah; I beg to withdraw for Home Affairs to intervene in the all other motions. debate. Some hon. Members: All motions I shall now put the motions to the withdrawn. vote of the House. We have the Half- Mr. Depaty-Speaker: All right. an-hour discussion. I shall now put the motion of Shri V. P. Nayar. The motions were, by leave, with* drawn. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: May I suggest that in view of the statement of the Prime Minister, it is more desir ALLEGATIONS OF CORRUPTION able that these motions should be with AGAINST THE DEPUTY SHIPPING drawn rather than pressed. Ultimate MASTER, CALCUTTA PORT ly, they may be brought again, if necessary. As the Prime Minister said, Shri H. N. Mnkerjee (Calcutta North there should be no negative vote on the East): I want to raise a discussion. . m atter. I would request my friends, Mr. Depaty-Speaker: For the con Shri V. P. Nayar and others, to with sideration of hon. Members. Because draw them. on this Half-an-hour discussion there would not be any vote, hon. Members Shri V. P. Nayar. There is this obvi need not draw my attention to the lack ous difficulty. Under the All India of quorum. By that I do not mean Services Act, it is absolutely necessary that hon. Members should go and there that we should record our vote. should be no quorum. There is an in- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Should there be tresting debate. They may continue any discussion on this? Are all of them to sit. Notwithstanding the absence of willing to withdraw? Members here or there, inasmuch as no voting will take place, the House will Shri V. P. Nayar: No, sit and adjourn after discussing this Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Now, the at 6-30. motion standing in the name of Shri [P andit T hakur D as B hargava in the V. P. Nayar. Chair.] The question is: Shri H. N. Mukerjee: I want to raise “ This House resolves that in pur a discussion because of the unsatisfac suance of sub-section (2) of section tory nature of certain answers which 3 of the All India Services Act, I elicited by means of a question on 1951, the Indian Administrative the 17th September, 1954. On that day, Service (Recruitment) Rules, 1954, I was lold by the Minister of Trans laid on the Table on the 10th Sep port that Government was aware of the tember, 1954, be repealed. serious allegations of corruption which were published in the Modern Review This House recommends to the at Calcutta dated September. 1948 as Rajya Sabha that the Rajya Sabha well as other papers against the Deputy do concur in the said resolution.” Shipping Master of Calcutta Port I The motion was negatived. was also told that the Special Police 365lAlleoation8 of Corruption 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 against the Deputy 3 65 2 Shipping Master, Calcutta Port [Shri H. N. Mukerjee] ed more or less to five times their Establishment of the Government of wages. This huge sum was deposit India had asked for sanction for prose^ ed on account of these seamen cution of the said officer after it had engaged from the Calcutta port made certain investigations. I was also with the Shipping Master, Calcutta, informed that instead of a prosecution by the various owners and agents being launched as recommended by the of ships. The decision of the Gov Special Police Establishment, a depart ernment of India was that the mental enquiry was ordered. I was amount so deposited with the Gov also told that during the pendency of ernment would become payable to the enquiry, the said officer was not the respective seamen on the cessa put under suspension. I was further tion of hostilities. The total informed that as a result of the en amount thus deposited with the quiry, that officer had been completely Shipping Master amounted to near exonerated. ly Rs. 2 crores. After the official This is not a personal matter. I declaration made by the Govern know nothing, as far as I am concern ment of India of the cessation of ed, about that officer against whom war, disbursement of this money these allegations were made. But, I on claims of seamen has been go would like the House to take a very ing on. These deposits are known serious note of the way in which this as post-war credit deposits. Al matter has been handled. legations appeared in the Calcutta Towards the end of the first session Daily Bharat to the effect that a of Parliament, I think it was number of officers have been mis in the last week of July 1952, my appropriating large sums of money attention was drawn to these publica out of these deposits on false and tions, Modern Review for September, fictitious vouchers. After the 1948, and a weekly from Bombay called Partition, many of the seamen have At07n^ in which these allegations were left for Pakistan. Some of them published. When I saw these allega died: some remain untraced. It is. tions, I thought they were serious en therefore, not much difficult to ough and I sent copies of these papers draw money in their names on pro to my *hon. friend the Minister for duction of false vouchers. Mush Transport. I shall quote from the room trade unions have come into Modem Review for September, 1948, being and they are also drawing which I have got from the Parliament large amounts in league with ihe Library here, in order to show the officials. It was alleged by s»^me serious nature of the allegations which newspaper that a Muslim office were made. The Modem Review of bearer of some seamen's trade September. 1948, on page 174 says: union was freely allowed to draw *‘A worse instance of corruption heavy sums under cheques issued has come from the Shipping Office in his favour by the Shipping at Calcutta. This office Is under Master without the production of the charge of a Shipping Master, any legal authority in the form of whose main functions are to look a power of attorney or other after the interests of Indian sea authority to receive payment. men who come under the Durview “The disclosures were followed of the Indian Merchant Shipping by a search of the shipping office Act to act as disbursing officer in by the Special Police of the Gov the transactions taking place bet ernment of India posted in Calcutta. ween Indian seamen and the An Under Secretary of the Cinm- Masters or agents of the different merce Department also came down sea-going vessels who employ ihem. for investigation, but the sold During the war, the seamen engag newspaper in a later comment ed by the agents were sanctioned pointed out that this was the same various allowances which amount- official who had made previous 3653 Allegations of Corruption 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 against the Deputy 3654 Shipping Master, Calcutta Port inspection of that office while the the expeditious disposal of proceedings alleged fraud was going on. against Government servants. Somebody else not familiar with In this case, in 1949 the Special that group should have been sent Police, Government of India, made down. Nothing has since been heard of either about the police -;jBd3p \2 ‘er*(3 [ ui /i\uo investigation or the starting of any SBM ;nq suoi)8 puauiuioo0j ure^jao mental enquiry was started against the legal proceedings. Instead, two officer concerned. The enquiry was employees on the audit staff, possi also conducted by an officer who be bly suspected of having let out the longed to the same department. A uncomfortable information, have Deputy Dfrector-General of Shipping, been discharged without assigning I understand went to Calcutta to make any reason/' investigations in regard to this matter. Then» this paper makes an appeal to the then Minister of Commerce, Mr. In this period of investigation, the K. C. Neogy, to go Into the matter officer concerned was not suspended* personally and do the needful. I do not know why this was not done. We all know the case of the former Now, I got a polite note of acknow Director-General of the All-India ledgment from the Minister of Trans Radio who was suspended and then, I port, but nothing happened. Then suppose, he was removed; and he was there was occasion for me to refer to suspended because there was an en this matter again. On the 27th quiry being conducted against him. February, 1954, discussing the Control That was not a judicial enquiry, but of Shipping (Amendment) Bill, I in any case,— that was perhaps a de- referred to this matter and I said that .partmental enquiry—the officer, in I heard a departmental enquiry was spite of his high status, was suspend going on but I thought in the circum ed. But in this case, he was not stances a judicial enquiry was very suspended. I have also heard from much more called for. On that occa people who work in the Calcutta Port sion, the Deputy Minister for Transport that when the enquiry was in pro who replied to the debate did not gress, the officer was there. He had choose to refer to this point which I free access to all the flies and records had made. of the shipping office. He used the Now. the Special Police, rrovern- services of several clerks under him in ment of India, investigated this matter order to prepare his case. This is very in 1949. I do not exactly know when disturbing because I am sure that it the Special Police recommended that produces a very bad impression on the Government should give sanction to stafT. It demoralises them if this is the prosecute the Deputy Shipping Master. kind of treatment which is going to be Now, nothing happened at’terwards, meted out, if this kind of ultra-soft for four long years, it seems. It was treatment is going to be meted out to not until September, 1953, that a de high-placed officers. partmental enquiry was started. The report of the Special Police Es Only the other day a question was tablishment Enquiry Committee of asked of the Minister of Planning re 1949-52, a committee on whirh, you, garding the Planning Commission's Sir, I find served with distinction, gi\*es report on corruption and regarding the me a lot of information as to how the steps that Government were taking. Central investigating agency works. It We were told in answer to starred seems investigation is started on infor question No. 1161 on the 21st of this mation received from a reliable source. month in this House that Government If the information appears on the face was very keen about checking and of it to be bona fide the case is regis punishing cases of corruption and it tered and investigation commences. was said that the Ministry of Home And then daily case diaries are receiv Aflairs have issued instructions for ed by the Inspector-G«neral and the 445 L.S.D . 3 6 5 5 of Corruption 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 against the Deputy 3656 Shipping Master, — " * ' Calcutta Port {Shri H. N, Mukerjee] the kind of story which is current in whole process is followed. This is all the office there. And in view of all to the good. Now, in spite of that, the these circumstances, in view of the Special Police recommendations regard long delay over this whole process, in ing sanction for prosecution was simp view of the fact that in 1948 very ly ignored, and when after nearly four serious charges were made, in view of years a departmental enquiry was start the fact that in 1949 the Special Police ed, the officer concerned was not sus Establishment recommended sanction pended. for prosecution by the Government, in view of the fact that nearly four years I find that it is not known whether were allowed to go and then a depart the Union Public Service Commission mental enquiry was instituted, in view was consulted or whether it concurred of the lact that we have no informa in the Government decision regarding tion regarding any reference to the the closure of this case. Some gazetted Union Public Service Commission. I officers have been involved in this case, feel the answer was very unsatisfac and I think that the Union Public tory, that certain points of principle Service Commission should have been are involved and I wish to call upon consulted before the case was declared the Government to give the House to have been closed. satisfaction on this issue. I have also been informed that at an The Minister of Railways and Trans* earlier stage, in 1949 roughly, there port (Shri L. B. Shastrd): Mr. Chair was another high-placed gazetted man, Sir, it is good that this matter has officer, his superior in service, actually been brought up here and Shri the then Shipping Master in Calcutta, Mukerjee has had his say. who was found guilty. On the finding of the Union Public Service Commis This case is a very old one. It is sion some punishment was given to true and I am prepared to accept that that officer in the latter part of 1949. there has been delay in the disposal of But, for some reason or other into this ca.se. but various factors led to which I have no n.eans of toing. this - this delay which could not be iivoided. particular officer, the Deputy Shipping Master, has not been touched at all. Before I give a brief history of this case, I would like to tell Shri Mukerjee Mr. Chairman: Order, order. I do that he is perhaps after officers who not want to interfere with the speech were really not guilty. Those who of the hon. Member, but he must be were the real culprits have uone out aware that he has taken fifteen minutes, of India. Well, in any case, even and at least fifteen minutes may be re against those people also, only if the quired by the Minister to reply. case could be proved some action could have been taken, but from the reports Shri V. P. Nayar (Chirayinkil): Ten that I have got it appears to me that minutes only. He started only at 6-05. those people who are no longer in India and have gone over to Pakistan were Shri H. N. Mukerjee: I shaU finish responsible—^they can be or they should now. I have not got much more to be held responsible—for this case of •ay. alleged defalcation, and as they are I And that with regard to this parti not here, well, it is not possible to do cular officer a course of conduct has anjrthing further in the matter. been pursued which, to my mind, ap I would not like to name them, but pears to be absolutely inexplicable. I anyhow, i might mention that some have heard—I do not know, I do not office-bearers of the union and parti mention names. I do not wish to bring cularly Mr. Suraj Ali was responsible in personalities—but I have heard that to some extent, or to a great extent, the officer whom I have named has for the matters which have been refer many influential connections. That is red to by Shri Mukerjee. 36s 7 of Corruption 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 against the Deputy 3658 Shipping Master, Calcutta Port The allegations made in the Modern matter, not only by the Transport Heview—they have not named him— Ministry, but also by the Law Ministry were perhaps aj^ainst the Shipping and the Home Ministry. Under the Master who was at that particular advice of the Home Ministry, we held moment in charge of the whole show, a departmental enquiry. and that Shipping Master also happen ed to be a Muslim and he has also gone over to Pakistan. So, Mr. Suraj Ali I may also make it clear that the and the Shipping Master can be part enquiry was held not by an officer of ly held or mainly held responsible, if the Transport Ministry, but by an I.A.S. the case had been proved; but it officer of the Bengal Government. cannot be proved now. Previously,—some time back—he was an officer under thp Transport Minis; ry. 1 might tell Shri H. N. Mukerjee that Perhaps he was working as a magist the police investigation started Into this rate in the Bengal Government. We case as early as 1948. Their final re took special precautions about this, ports were received by the Government because we felt that it would be ad of India in August 1950, and the Special visable to get this enquired into by an Police Establishment recommended officer who had nothing to do with the prosecution of Shri T. V. Rajagopalan, Transport Ministry. This was more or Shri Banerjee, Shri Ghosh and some less a judicial enquiry, because the others; and the reports of the Special Special Police Establishment were given Poliice Esitablishment were examined the power to prosecute the case, and to by the Transport Ministry, in consul conduct the case before the inquiry tation with the Director-General of officer, and they were allowed to pro Shipping, Bombay. duce documents and evidence. In April 1951, the Ministry of Law The enquiry was somewhat delayed were requested to advise if there was on account of the selection of the a prima facie case to justify a prose officer too. We were writing to many cution. The Ministry of Law con different authorities for giving us an sidered that some evidence was avail officer, but they were not able to do able in support of a prima facie case so. When the n.atter was brought to that there was a conspiracy in respect my notice. ar:d when Shri H. N. Mu of the post-war credit money, though kerjee referred to this in this House, there still remain some loopholes in I took personal interest, and asked the investigation. The matter, was the Transport Ministry to get the referred to the Home Ministry, and whole thing expedited. And within when they were consulted, they came a very short period, w e could man to the conclusion that since evidence age to get an officer from the Bengal could not be produced to obtain a Government, Mr. Neogy, an I.A.S. conviction in a court of law, the case officer. should not be sent to a court, but the desirability of taking departmental That officer has gone into the whole action should be examined. This is matter. I might perhaps correct my what was suggested by the Home self here. What Mr. Mukerjee said was Ministy. They also advised—which correct. I was under the impression they generally do not do—that that he was not working in the Trans the Special Police Establishment might port Ministry. But he was working in be associated with the departmental the Transport Ministry at that moment proceedings, and that the I'equired as Deputy Director-General, Shipping. evidence and documents could be pro But, as I just now told him, he is an duced by them before the inquiry I.A.S. officer. And it was a Judicial officer. Shri H. N. Mukerjee, I think, inquiry, in the sense that the Special will feel convinced that in this case, Police Establishment had conduct^ the proper care was taken to go Into this gase against these officers and all evi- of Corruption 28 SEPTEMBER 1954 against the Deputy 366a Shipping Master, Calcutta Port [Shri L. B. Shastri] “The inquiry has revealed that dence and records were produced by records pertaining to the pay them. After having gone into the ments during the period were not matter, the officer has submitted his properly maintained, but the rev report to the Transport Minisiry. Tt is ponsibility for this state of affairs true that the matter was not brought must primarily be that of the up before me because the Transport officers directly in charge of this Secretary is the appointing and punish (section namely, the Assistant Ship ing authority. He went through the re ping Master, and the head of the commendations of Shri Neogy and came office, the Shipping Master, who to some conclusions. I shall read apparently failed in his duties in out what he has said: laying down a proper detailed pro cedure for the checking and filing of records. In any event, it will “From the facts brought out be difficult to hold that either during the inquiry and the circum Shri Hajagopalan or Shri Ghosh or stances of the case, the following Shri Banerjee were guilty of ‘mlv pomts appear to be clearly estab conduct in the discharge of their lished: duties as public servants by com mitting criminal breach of trust in (a) that none of the three officers respect of payments of PWC concerned had any responsibility money’. in the matter of initiating the pro “Viewed against this background, cedure for making payments to the findings of the inquiry officer Suraj All on the basis of nomina exonerating the three officers from tions made in application forms: blame on the different counts of charge relating to PWC money ap (b) that in respect of the 12 pear to be perfectly reasonable. I cheques signed by Shri Raja- accordingly accept these findings gopalan, there is no doubt regard and the recommendations based ing their disbursement to SuraJ thereon” . Ali and their having been duly This is the final decision given by credited to an account of the the Transport Secretary. Union: Mr. Mukerjee said that an amount of Rs. 2 crores was involved. That is (c) that there Is nothing to not correct. I have not got the figures. suggest that the procedure of Perhaps, it does not go over Rs. 2 making these nnyments was devi lakhs, but it does not matter wheher sed for any improper purpose or it is Rs. 2 lakhs or Rs. 2 crores. Any actuated by any imporper motives. how, there was some complaint about the defalcation or the misuse of that It is also clear that the responsi money. bility for initiating the procedure I might also state that the reasons; and for its continuaAie after the for not suspending the officer were that receipt of the Government of the Special Police Establishment did India's letter of 19th March, 1947. not ask for this in this case. General was solely that of the Shipping ly, in such cases they demand the sus« Master and that the conduct of Shri pension of the officers. But, on behalf Hajagopalan in his repeated of the Transport Ministry, they were attempts to defer payments until assured that if any accused officer was Government’s approval was receiv found to be hampering their investi- ed Is incompatible with any guilty ga-ttoft. he would be suspended. But, or improper motive on his part." none of the officers came to the adverse Tte has further said: notice of the police. ^66l of Conniption 28 SEPTBIMBEK li^54 agaiu^x tht Djpuiy 2663 Shipping Master, Calcutta Port Secondly, when the decision to hold suspending the accused officers in 1W52. ^ departmental enquiry was taken in when they had already served for early 1952, the accused officials had about 4 or 5 years in the same cffife. already been working in the Calcutta Shipping Master’s Office for nearly five I shall not take more time of the years since the date of the alleged in House. But, I can tell Shri Mukerjee criminating transactions and nothing that I do not want to defend or sup adverse had been recorded or reported port any officer who is found to have against them. It was not, therefore, been guilty. But, I have no alternative considered necessary to suspend them. but to take a different course when the But, as I said, the Minister of Trans Home Ministry, after looking into the port had ordered that, if, during the case fully, comes to the conclusion course of the enquiry, it was found that only departmental action should that any of the accused officers were be taken and no prosecution should be Iftampering the enquiry in any way, launched. I may also tell Shri they might be suspended. Mukerjee that the Transport Secretary is a very senior and level-headed officer and I can say about him also Generally, suspension of an officer is that he would never like to suppreu pol resorted to unless a preliminary any wrong deed or help a wrong or a enquiry has been made or tmless there guilty officer. is strong prima facie evidence which will reasonably ensure his ultimate con- The Lok Sabha then adjourned till vlijtion. There was, therefore, no|Case Eleven of the Clock on Wednesday, for dislocating government business by the 29th September, 1954. M l L J.P.