PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 1 – PREMIER AND FINANCE Wednesday 11 September 2019 Examination of proposed expenditure for the portfolio areas JOBS, INVESTMENT, TOURISM AND WESTERN SYDNEY CORRECTED The Committee met at 9:30 MEMBERS The Hon. Tara Moriarty (Chair) Ms Abigail Boyd The Hon. Courtney Houssos The Hon. Rose Jackson The Hon. Trevor Khan The Hon. Taylor Martin The Hon. Natalie Ward PRESENT The Hon. Stuart Ayres, Minister for Jobs, Investment, Tourism and Western Sydney CORRECTIONS TO TRANSCRIPT OF COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS Corrections should be marked on a photocopy of the proof and forwarded to: Budget Estimates secretariat Room 812 Parliament House Macquarie Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 Wednesday, 11 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 1 The CHAIR: Welcome to the public hearing of the inquiry into budget estimates 2019-2020. Before I commence I would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people, who are traditional custodians of this land. I would also like to pay respect to the elders past and present of the Eora nation and extend that respect to other Aboriginals present. I welcome Minister Stuart Ayres and accompanying officials to the hearing today. Today the Committee will examine the proposed expenditure for the portfolio of Jobs, Investment, Tourism and Western Sydney. I remind everybody that the proceedings today are broadcast on the Parliament's website. There are some broadcasting guidelines. In accordance with those guidelines, while members of the media may film or record Committee members and witnesses, people in the public gallery should not be the primary focus of any filming or photography. I also remind media representatives that you must take responsibility for what you publish about the Committee's proceedings. The guidelines for the broadcast of proceedings are available from the secretariat. All witnesses in budget estimates have the right to procedural fairness in accordance with the procedural fairness resolution adopted by the House in 2018. There may be some questions that a witness could only answer if they had more time or with certain documents to hand. In those circumstances witnesses are advised that they can take the question on notice and provide an answer within 21 days. Any message from advisers or members' staff seated in the public gallery should be delivered through the Committee secretariat. Minister, I remind you that you are able to engage and interact with the officers beside you and your staff behind you if you need to. Transcripts of the hearing will be available on the web from tomorrow morning. I remind everybody to switch mobile phones to silent. Some of our witnesses have participated in these hearings before and have already been sworn in. As a member of Parliament, the Minister does not need to be sworn in. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 1 – PREMIER AND FINANCE Wednesday, 11 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 2 SANDRA CHIPCHASE, Chief Executive Officer, Destination NSW, sworn and examined SAM SANGSTER, Chief Executive Officer, Western City & Aerotropolis Authority, affirmed and examined SIMON DRAPER, Chief Executive Officer, Infrastructure NSW, on former oath MICHAEL PRATT, Secretary, NSW Treasury, on former oath KIM CURTAIN, Acting Deputy Secretary, Trade, Tourism, Investment and Precincts, NSW Treasury, on former oath The CHAIR: I declare the proposed expenditure for the portfolio of Jobs, Investment, Tourism and Western Sydney open for examination. This session will go from 9.30 a.m. to 11.30 a.m. with the rotation of the Opposition and the crossbench for 20 minutes at a time. We will start with the Opposition. I have a couple of questions to start with. Minister, are you aware that there has been a long-running legal dispute between Destination NSW [DNSW] and The Sydney Morning Herald? Mr STUART AYRES: What is your definition of long-running legal dispute? If you are referring to the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal [NCAT], it has probably been resolved. The CHAIR: Four years is a fairly long-running dispute in relation to a freedom of information request. Mr STUART AYRES: NCAT made rulings and Destination NSW adhered to all of those rulings. The CHAIR: Sure, but I understand that there is a proposal that Destination NSW be referred to the Ombudsman. Has that happened in relation to this dispute? Mr STUART AYRES: If it has been referred to the Ombudsman, the Ombudsman can investigate. We have said that we will comply with any requirements of NCAT, and continue to do so. The CHAIR: How much has the legal battle cost taxpayers? Mr STUART AYRES: I do not have that figure. I can happily take that on notice. The CHAIR: Thank you. The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS: Minister, do you agree that Sydney needs a six-star hotel to be an internationally competitive city? Mr STUART AYRES: I fundamentally believe that Sydney, as an international city, should continue to expand its high-quality tourism offerings. You can insert whatever star rating you like here. More hotels available in Sydney is good for our economy. We should be able to create opportunities where people want to invest in hotel capacity. There is space for every star rating, from early-entry product right through to the highest and most expensive product that attracts high-value visitors. We should be able to offer product to all of those people. The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS: Do you support the proposal to redevelop the existing Star casino? Mr STUART AYRES: I am more than comfortable with developments across all of the tourism offerings, as long as they play by the rules like any other developer in New South Wales. We should be encouraging them. I will work every single day to encourage investment in New South Wales, but they have to adhere to the rules that the State conducts—whether it is development or legal activity. Whatever those rules are, come and play, but play by the rules. The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS: Would you characterise the proposed Ritz-Carlton redevelopment as not playing by the rules? Mr STUART AYRES: That will be a determination for the Department of Planning, Industry and Environment. Ritz-Carlton has gone through a process over a long period of time. I understand it started that process under the old part 3A laws, and there have been a series of variations based on the legal framework that it has before it. It is now currently before the Independent Planning Commission [IPC]. That is the framework in which we make those decisions at the moment in New South Wales. I am comfortable with that. The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS: Some of your Cabinet colleagues have come out and said that they support or are opposed to the proposal. Do you have a clear view? Mr STUART AYRES: My view is that we encourage investment but play by the rules. If that is Star casino or a person developing a caravan park in regional New South Wales I view them exactly the same. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 1 – PREMIER AND FINANCE Wednesday, 11 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 3 The Hon. ROSE JACKSON: But, Minister, what if those rules are consistently frustrating the development of high-quality tourism infrastructure—for example, hotels in the Sydney CBD? It has been quite some time, has it not, since we had a development of the scale of what The Star casino is proposing? You can say that they need to play by the rules, but what if those rules are not delivering the tourism infrastructure that we need? The Hon. NATALIE WARD: Point of order: I appreciate that this is a topical issue, and we are all aware of it, but I am not entirely sure how it relates to the budget for this portfolio area. I ask that you ask members to contain their questions to the budget. The CHAIR: I do not uphold the point of order. It is relevant. Mr STUART AYRES: I am happy to answer. The first thing I would say is that the New South Wales Government has directly helped facilitate the delivery of over 2,000 new hotel rooms in Sydney. That is on top of what is developed in conjunction with direct engagement with local government. Planning laws will be frustrating in any city anywhere around the world because, invariably, what takes place is that people want to deploy capital as quickly as they can, but that needs to be balanced against the needs of individual communities. That, in itself, is the essence of having a clear and transparent framework. What the Government endeavours to do is to set a planning framework that allows everyone to play by the rules. In the case of The Star casino, it has walked down a path that it believes has been available to it, but ultimately the decision will be made by the Independent Planning Commission, because that is the framework we have set up. The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS: Minister, your colleague the Treasurer said that it will make a real difference to Sydney's international standing. As the tourism Minister, do you agree with that? Mr STUART AYRES: I think a large-scale hotel of that quality will have an impact in New South Wales, and it will be a positive impact, yes. But for that hotel to be developed it has to be developed within the rules that are set out in the planning framework that everyone knows. The Hon. COURTNEY HOUSSOS: I come back to the question that my colleague asked you. Do you think that the current proposals—the current restrictions on that site—are appropriate? Mr STUART AYRES: The New South Wales Government has indicated that through the Greater Sydney Commission it is reviewing the planning conditions for the entire Pyrmont precinct.