Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru The National Assembly for Wales
Cofnod y Trafodion The Record of Proceedings
Dydd Mercher, 21 Medi 2011 Wednesday, 21 September 2011 21/09/2011
Cynnwys Contents
3 Cwestiynau Cyllid i’r Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ Finance Questions to the Minister for Finance and Leader of the House
24 Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth Questions to the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science
46 Cynigion i Ethol Aelodau i Bwyllgorau Motions to Elect Members to Committees
48 Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Hygyrchedd Trafnidiaeth Gyhoeddus Welsh Conservatives Debate: The Accessibility of Public Transport
78 Dadl Plaid Cymru: Cyllid Plaid Cymru Debate: Funding
109 Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Llywodraeth Leol Welsh Conservatives Debate: Local Government
139 Cyfnod Pleidleisio Voting Time
154 Dadl Fer: Yr Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant—Yr Angen am Newid Short Debate: The Child Support Agency—The Need for Change
Yn y golofn chwith, cofnodwyd y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y Siambr. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir cyfieithiad Saesneg o gyfraniadau yn y Gymraeg.
In the left-hand column, the proceedings are recorded in the language in which they were spoken in the Chamber. In addition, an English translation of Welsh speeches is included.
2 21/09/2011
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 1.30 p.m.gyda’r Llywydd (Rosemary Butler) yn y Gadair. The Assembly met at 1.30 p.m.with the Presiding Officer (Rosemary Butler) in the Chair.
The Presiding Officer: Good afternoon. Y Llywydd: Prynhawn da.
Cwestiynau Cyllid i’r Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ Finance Questions to the Minister for Finance and Leader of the House
Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy Environment and Sustainable Development
1. Antoinette Sandbach: A wnaiff y 1. Antoinette Sandbach: Will the Minister Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddyraniad make a statement on the overall budget cyffredinol y gyllideb i’r portffolio allocation to the Environment and Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy. Sustainable Development portfolio. OAQ(4)0022(FIN) OAQ(4)0022(FIN)
The Minister for Finance and Leader of Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ the House (Jane Hutt): The budget for the (Jane Hutt): Cafodd y gyllideb ar gyfer Department for Environment and Sustainable Adran yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Development for 2011-12 was set out in the Cynaliadwy ar gyfer 2011-12 ei hamlinellu supplementary budget and approved by the yn y gyllideb atodol a gymeradwywyd gan y Assembly in July. The department’s budget Cynulliad ym mis Gorffennaf. Cyfanswm totals £311 million, of which £60.6 million is cyllideb yr adran yw £311 miliwn; y mae capital and £250.7 million is resource. £60.6 miliwn o hynny yn gyfalaf a £250.7 miliwn yn adnodd.
Antoinette Sandbach: I am grateful for that Antoinette Sandbach: Rwyf yn ddiolchgar answer, Minister. Can you confirm what am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. A allwch discussions you have had with the Minister gadarnhau pa drafodaethau yr ydych wedi’u for Environment and Sustainable cael gyda Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd a Development concerning his recent Datblygu Cynaliadwy am ei gyhoeddiad announcement of an additional £1 million for diweddar o £1 miliwn yn ychwanegol ar improving habitats and ecosystems? These gyfer gwella cynefinoedd ac ecosystemau? objectives should surely be met through the Dylai’r amcanion hyn yn sicr gael eu diwallu considerable resources of the rural drwy adnoddau sylweddol y cynllun datblygu development plan, and the need to spend gwledig, ac mae’r angen i wario arian additional money outside of these schemes ychwanegol y tu allan i’r cynlluniau hyn yn appears to be an admission of the Deputy ymddangos i fod yn gyfaddefiad o fethiant y Minister’s failure to make the Glastir agri- Dirprwy Weinidog i wneud y cynllun environment scheme fit for purpose. amaeth-amgylcheddol Glastir yn addas at y diben.
Jane Hutt: Ongoing discussions with the Jane Hutt: Nid yw trafodaethau parhaus Minister have not revealed those issues. gyda’r Gweinidog wedi datgelu’r materion Clearly, the Minister is responsible for hynny. Yn amlwg, mae’r Gweinidog yn responding to need within his budgetary gyfrifol am ymateb i angen o fewn ei allocations, and I believe that is what he has ddyraniadau cyllidebol, ac yr wyf yn credu sensibly and appropriately done to ensure that mai dyna beth mae wedi’i wneud, yn we do, as you rightly said, address those synhwyrol ac yn briodol, er mwyn sicrhau ein critical biodiversity needs and issues. bod, fel y dywedasoch yn gywir, yn mynd i’r afael â’r anghenion allweddol hynny o ran materion bioamrywiaeth.
3 21/09/2011
Yr Arglwydd Elis-Thomas: A wnaiff y Lord Elis-Thomas: Will the Minister for Gweinidog Cyllid, wrth drafod gyda’i Finance, in discussion with her colleague, the chydweithiwr, y Gweinidog Amgylchedd a Minister for Environment and Sustainable Datblygu Cynaladwy, roi sylw arbennig i’r Development, pay particular attention to cyllidebau hynny sydd wedi’u cyfeirio tuag at those budgets that are directed towards arbed ynni a chadw’n gynnes ddeiliaid energy conservation and keeping warm cartrefi sydd ar incwm isel ac mewn angen, households on low incomes and in need, as gan fod y cynlluniau hyn, Arbed a these schemes, Arbed and similar energy chynlluniau ynni tebyg, yn cwrdd â dau o schemes, meet two of the aims of the Welsh amcanion Llywodraeth Cymru a’r Cynulliad Government and of the Assembly, namely to hwn, sef arbed ynni a chadw pobl yn gynnes conserve energy and keep people warm? ac yn glyd?
Jane Hutt: Arbed, and, of course, Nest, are Jane Hutt: Mae Arbed ac, wrth gwrs, Nest, very important schemes for this Government yn gynlluniau pwysig iawn i’r Llywodraeth in terms of our priorities and targeting fuel hon o ran ein blaenoriaethau a thargedu tlodi poverty in Wales. That is at the forefront of tanwydd yng Nghymru. Mae hynny ar flaen the Minister’s agenda, and I am doing my agenda’r Gweinidog, ac yr wyf yn gwneud fy best to support him in that endeavour. ngorau i’w gefnogi yn yr ymdrech honno.
William Powell: Will the Minister please William Powell: A wnaiff y Gweinidog make a statement on the anticipated savings ddatganiad am yr arbedion a ragwelir o uno from the proposed merger of the Forestry arfaethedig y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, Commission, the Countryside Council for Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru ac Asiantaeth yr Wales and Environment Agency Wales? Amgylchedd Cymru?
Jane Hutt: It is premature to give you an Jane Hutt: Mae’n rhy gynnar i roi cyfrif i account at this stage, but, working with the chi ar hyn o bryd, ond, gan weithio gyda’r Minister, I am certainly expecting that to Gweinidog, yr wyf yn sicr yn disgwyl i come forward. hynny ddod ymlaen.
Blaenoriaethau Priorities
2. Janet Finch-Saunders: A wnaiff y 2. Janet Finch-Saunders: Will the Minister Gweinidog amlinellu ei blaenoriaethau ar outline her priorities for Aberconwy for the gyfer Aberconwy yn y Pedwerydd Cynulliad. Fourth Assembly. OAQ(4)0030(FIN) OAQ(4)0030(FIN)
Jane Hutt: We are committed to delivering Jane Hutt: Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i better outcomes for people and communities sicrhau canlyniadau gwell i bobl a across the whole of Wales. I am publishing chymunedau ar draws Cymru gyfan. Yr wyf the draft budget on 4 October, which will yn cyhoeddi’r gyllideb ddrafft ar 4 Hydref, a outline our priorities for the coming years. fydd yn amlinellu ein blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y blynyddoedd i ddod.
Janet Finch-Saunders: Many micro, small Janet Finch-Saunders: Mae llawer o and medium-sized businesses in Aberconwy fusnesau micro, bach a chanolig eu maint yn face an uncertain future as the commitment to Aberconwy yn wynebu dyfodol ansicr gan hold discretionary rate relief lasts only until fod yr ymrwymiad i gynnal rhyddhad ardrethi September next year. I am sure you would yn ôl disgresiwn yn para dim ond tan fis agree, Minister, that providing discretionary Medi y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr wyf yn siŵr y rate relief is the very least that we can do to byddech yn cytuno, Weinidog, mai darparu help small and medium-sized businesses in rhyddhad ardrethi dewisol yw’r peth lleiaf y Aberconwy. However, we can do much more gallwn ei wneud i helpu busnesau bach a
4 21/09/2011 to reduce the red tape and bureaucracy faced chanolig eu maint yn Aberconwy. Fodd by small businesses. It is essential for bynnag, gallwn wneud llawer mwy i leihau’r businesses to be able to plan ahead to put tâp coch a biwrocratiaeth sy’n wynebu Wales on the road to economic recovery. busnesau bach. Mae’n hanfodol i fusnesau What is your long-term plan to help and allu cynllunio ymlaen llaw i roi Cymru ar y support the 8,840 micro, small and medium- ffordd i adferiad economaidd. Beth yw eich sized businesses and the 25,835 workers that cynllun tymor hir i helpu a chefnogi’r 8,840 o they employ in Aberconwy? fusnesau micro, bach a chanolig eu maint a’r 25,835 o weithwyr y maent yn eu cyflogi yn Aberconwy?
Jane Hutt: Clearly, the Member for Jane Hutt: Yn amlwg, bydd yr Aelod dros Aberconwy will know that this is again a Aberconwy yn gwybod bod hyn eto yn priority for the Minister for Business, flaenoriaeth i'r Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Enterprise, Technology and Science, and, Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth, ac, yn wir, indeed, you will have also noticed the very byddwch hefyd wedi sylwi ar y cyhoeddiad important, and widely welcomed, pwysig iawn, a groesawyd gan nifer, o'r announcement of the work that has been gwaith sydd wedi cael ei wneud ynghylch undertaken regarding micro businesses and busnesau micro a'u hanghenion, a their needs, led by Robert Lloyd Griffiths of arweiniwyd gan Robert Lloyd Griffiths o the Institute of Directors. That is at the Sefydliad y Cyfarwyddwyr. Mae hynny ar forefront of our agenda in this Government. flaen ein hagenda yn y Llywodraeth hon.
Kenneth Skates: During the summer I Kenneth Skates: Yn ystod yr haf, ymwelais visited a number of companies in my â nifer o gwmnïau yn fy etholaeth, yn constituency, particularly manufacturers, enwedig cynhyrchwyr, bach a mawr. Un both big and small. One issue raised with me mater a godwyd gyda mi gan nifer ohonynt by several of them was a problem concerning yw problem sy'n ymwneud ag yswiriant credit insurance. Even companies that have credyd. Mae hyd yn oed cwmnïau sydd wedi only ever operated in the black are now gweithredu erioed yn y du yn awr yn canfod finding that credit rating agencies are bod asiantaethau statws credyd yn dyrchafu elevating their borrowing risk to prohibitive eu risg benthyca i lefelau afresymol. A levels. Could you examine ways of easing the allwch edrych ar ffyrdd o leddfu straen a strain caused by credit insurance costs due to achosir gan gostau yswiriant credyd o credit reference agencies inflating the risk of ganlyniad i asiantaethau cyfeirio credyd yn lenders investing in businesses? chwyddo'r risg i fenthycwyr o fuddsoddi mewn busnesau?
Jane Hutt: That is an important point, Jane Hutt: Mae hwnnw'n bwynt pwysig, because we know that increasing pressure is oherwydd gwyddom fod pwysau cynyddol yn being placed on individuals and their families cael ei roi ar unigolion a'u teuluoedd due to rising costs. Important developments oherwydd costau cynyddol. Mae are taking place and I welcome what Conwy datblygiadau pwysig yn cael eu cynnal ac yr County Borough Council is doing in this wyf yn croesawu'r hyn y mae Cyngor respect with its local authority mortgage Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy yn ei wneud yn hyn scheme. We have to assist people and ensure o beth gyda'i gynllun morgeisi awdurdodau that they are not at the mercy of the greedy lleol. Mae'n rhaid i ni gynorthwyo pobl a and unregulated loan sharks that are too often sicrhau nad ydynt ar drugaredd y siarcod on the high street. benthyca barus nad ydynt yn cael eu rheoleiddio sy'n rhy aml ar y stryd fawr.
Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Un o’r sectorau Llyr Huws Gruffydd: One of the most pwysicaf yn Aberconwy, yn enwedig yng important sectors in Aberconwy, particularly nghyd-destun busnesau bach, yw’r sector in the context of small businesses, is the twristiaeth. Yn yr hinsawdd economaidd sydd tourism sector. In the current economic
5 21/09/2011 ohoni mae mwy o bobl yn dewis aros ym climate more people are choosing to take Mhrydain i gymryd eu gwyliau. A fyddech their holidays in Britain. Would you agree yn cytuno ei bod yn amserol ystyried sicrhau that it would be timely to look at ensuring mwy o fuddsoddiad mewn twristiaeth er more investment in tourism so that we can mwyn medru manteisio’n llawn ar y cyfle take full advantage of the unique opportunity unigryw yn yr hinsawdd sydd ohoni i dyfu’r that exists in the current climate to develop sector hwnnw yng Nghymru? that sector in Wales?
Jane Hutt: That is another matter of priority, Jane Hutt: Mae hwnnw'n faes arall sy’n particularly for the Minister for Business, flaenoriaeth, yn enwedig ar gyfer y Enterprise, Technology and Science, who is Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a responsible for tourism. We can look back Gwyddoniaeth, sy'n gyfrifol am dwristiaeth. over this summer to see the benefits that Gallwn edrych yn ôl dros yr haf i weld y holidaying in Wales has brought. Against the manteision a ddaeth yn sgîl treulio gwyliau backdrop of increasing pressure on our yng Nghymru. Yn erbyn y cefndir o gynyddu finances as a result of UK Government cuts, pwysau ar ein cyllid o ganlyniad i doriadau this is an area where we must ensure that we Llywodraeth y DU, mae hwn yn faes lle support businesses and, in order to do that, mae'n rhaid i ni sicrhau ein bod yn cefnogi support tourism. busnesau ac, er mwyn gwneud hynny, yn cefnogi twristiaeth.
Polisïau Caffael Policies for Procurement
3. Vaughan Gething: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 3. Vaughan Gething: Will the Minister make ddatganiad am bolisïau caffael Llywodraeth a statement on the Welsh Government’s Cymru. OAQ(4)0033(FIN) policies for procurement. OAQ(4)0033(FIN)
Jane Hutt: Our procurement policy is to Jane Hutt: Ein polisi caffael yw manteisio maximise the value we derive from the £4.3 i’r eithaf ar y gwerth a ddaw o'r gwariant billion annual procurement spend across caffael blynyddol o £4.3 biliwn ar draws Wales. Through Value Wales, we are Cymru. Drwy Gwerth Cymru, rydym yn working to simplify procurement practices, gweithio i symleiddio arferion caffael, deliver efficiency and improve outcomes in sicrhau effeithlonrwydd a gwella canlyniadau partnership with local authorities, health, mewn partneriaeth ag awdurdodau lleol a’r education and emergency services. gwasanaethau iechyd, addysg a brys.
Vaughan Gething: I am aware of some of Vaughan Gething: Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o the work done previously on improving rywfaint o'r gwaith a wnaed yn flaenorol ar procurement outcomes with businesses and wella canlyniadau caffael gyda busnesau ac trade unions. Can you confirm that the Welsh undebau llafur. A allwch chi gadarnhau bod Government remains committed to increasing Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i the amount of public procurement spent in gynyddu’r caffael cyhoeddus yng Nghymru Wales above the current level of 50 per cent? yn uwch na'r lefel bresennol o 50 y cant? A Can you also confirm that the Welsh allwch chi hefyd gadarnhau bod Llywodraeth Government remains committed to using Cymru wedi ymrwymo i ddefnyddio cymalau social clauses in procurement more regularly cymdeithasol mewn caffael yn fwy rheolaidd and consistently, especially as a means of ac yn gyson, yn enwedig fel ffordd o fynd i'r tackling unemployment, as happens regularly afael â diweithdra, fel sy'n digwydd yn and lawfully in other parts of Europe? rheolaidd ac yn gyfreithlon mewn rhannau eraill o Ewrop?
Jane Hutt: The Member for Cardiff South Jane Hutt: Mae'r Aelod dros Dde Caerdydd and Penarth is right to focus on this important a Phenarth yn iawn i ganolbwyntio ar y mater issue in relation to supporting Welsh pwysig hwn mewn perthynas â chefnogi business. Helping to support smaller busnesau Cymru. Mae helpu i gefnogi
6 21/09/2011 indigenous companies to develop is cwmnïau cynhenid llai i ddatblygu yn particularly important in the current tough arbennig o bwysig yn yr hinsawdd economic climate. It is good to report that 50 economaidd anodd ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n dda per cent of the £4.3 billion annual public adrodd bod 50 y cant o'r gwariant caffael procurement spend in Wales now goes to cyhoeddus blynyddol o £4.3 biliwn yng Wales-based suppliers, most of which are Nghymru yn awr yn mynd i gyflenwyr sydd small and medium-sized enterprises. That has wedi'u lleoli yng Nghymru, y rhan fwyaf increased from 35 per cent in 2003. The ohonynt yn fentrau bach a chanolig eu maint. focus on social clauses is key in terms of the Mae hynny wedi cynyddu o 35 y cant yn community benefits that can be derived from 2003. Mae'r ffocws ar gymalau cymdeithasol them. The i2i toolkit that we have been using, yn allweddol o ran y manteision cymunedol which is managed by the Chartered Institute sy’n gallu deillio ohonynt. Mae'r pecyn of Housing Cymru, is particularly relevant to cymorth i2i yr ydym wedi bod yn defnyddio, skills development, apprenticeships and sy'n cael ei reoli gan Sefydliad Tai Siartredig equality of opportunity in that regard. Cymru, yn arbennig o berthnasol i ddatblygu sgiliau, prentisiaethau a chyfle cyfartal yn hynny o beth.
Darren Millar: Minister, I am sure that you Darren Millar: Weinidog, yr wyf yn siŵr y agree that small businesses are the backbone cytunwch mai busnesau bach yw asgwrn cefn of the Welsh economy. One problem that has economi Cymru. Un broblem a nodwyd gan been identified by organisations such as the sefydliadau fel y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach Federation of Small Businesses is the yw'r broses gaffael yng Nghymru o ran mynd procurement process in Wales when it comes at y sector cyhoeddus. Nid oes gan lawer o to approaching the public sector. Many sefydliadau llai yr arbenigedd na'r capasiti i smaller organisations simply do not have the gyflogi pobl llawn amser i weithio trwy expertise or the capacity to employ people broses tendro sy’n gallu bod yn gymhleth. full-time to work through what can be Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i gynyddu capasiti complicated tendering processes. What are a gallu busnesau bach yng Nghymru i gwrdd you doing to increase the capacity and the â'r heriau a gyflwynir gan y prosesau caffael ability of small businesses in Wales to meet y maent yn dod ar eu traws? the challenges presented by the procurement processes that they encounter?
Jane Hutt: Darren Millar is right to point to Jane Hutt: Mae Darren Millar yn iawn i this important area of policy. The value of dynnu sylw at y maes pwysig hwn o bolisi. contracts advertised through the Welsh Mae gwerth y contractau a hysbysebir trwy Government’s Sell2Wales website has now wefan GwerthwchiGymru Llywodraeth exceeded £15 billion and over 30,000 Welsh Cymru bellach yn uwch na £15 biliwn ac y suppliers are registered and receive these mae dros 30,000 o gyflenwyr o Gymru wedi opportunities. He also pointed to the cofrestru ac yn derbyn y cyfleoedd hyn. importance of smaller-value contracts, and, Cyfeiriodd hefyd at bwysigrwydd contractau last year, there was a 24 per cent growth in sydd â gwerth llai, ac, y llynedd, bu cynnydd advertisements of such contracts and 21 of o 24 y cant mewn hysbysebion am gontractau the last 40 construction contracts awarded, o'r fath ac enillwyd 21 o'r 40 contractau worth some £600 million, went to Welsh adeiladu diwethaf a ddyfarnwyd, sydd gwerth businesses. However, more can be done to tua £600 miliwn, gan fusnesau Cymru. Fodd simplify the process. bynnag, mae mwy y gellir ei wneud i symleiddio'r broses.
Alun Ffred Jones: Yr ydym wedi clywed Alun Ffred Jones: We have heard quite a lot tipyn am y ffaith bod hanner y cytundebau about the fact that half the contracts let in the sy’n cael eu gosod yn y sector cyhoeddus yn public sector go to companies from Wales. mynd i gwmnïau o Gymru. O edrych ar y Looking at the health service, it appears to gwasanaeth iechyd, ymddengys i mi, o’r me, from the inquiries that I have made, that
7 21/09/2011 ymholiadau yr wyf wedi’u gwneud, fod many of these contracts are England-and- llawer iawn o’r cytundebau hyn yn Wales contracts and are let by the NHS gytundebau Cymru a Lloegr ac yn cael eu centrally. Do you have any figures with gosod gan y GIG yn ganolog. A oes gennych regard to how many of the contracts let by chi ffigurau ynghylch faint o’r cytundebau a the NHS in Wales go to companies from osodir gan y GIG yng Nghymru sy’n mynd i Wales? gwmnïau o Gymru?
Jane Hutt: I will raise that question directly Jane Hutt: Byddaf yn codi'r cwestiwn with the Minister for Health and Social hwnnw yn uniongyrchol gyda'r Gweinidog Services, so that she can report back to the Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, er Member on that point. mwyn iddi adrodd yn ôl i'r Aelodau ar y pwynt hwnnw.
Blaenoriaethau Priorities
4. Keith Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 4. Keith Davies: Will the Minister outline her amlinellu ei blaenoriaethau dros gyfnod y priorities for the period of this Assembly. Cynulliad yma. OAQ(4)0032(FIN) OAQ(4)0032(FIN)
Jane Hutt: Byddwn yn nodi ein Jane Hutt: We will set out our priorities in blaenoriaethau yn y rhaglen lywodraethu. the programme for government. The draft Bydd y gyllideb ddrafft, a gyhoeddir gennyf budget, which I will publish on 4 October, ar 4 Hydref, yn nodi ein blaenoriaethau o ran will set out our spending priorities. gwariant.
Keith Davies: Diolch am eich ateb. Mae Keith Davies: Thank you for your answer. cyllid Ewrop yn chwarae rhan allweddol European funding plays a crucial role in mewn sawl maes o’n heconomi. Derbyniaf y many sections of our economy. I accept that pwysau ar gyllid, felly, gan ystyried hynny, a there is pressure on funding, therefore, wnaiff y Gweinidog sicrhau bod Llywodraeth bearing that in mind, will the Minister ensure Cymru yn y safle gorau i ddiogelu cymaint o that the Welsh Government is in the best gyllid â phosibl ac i wneud y defnydd gorau position to safeguard funding as much is as o’r cyllid hwnnw? possible and to make the best use of that funding?
Jane Hutt: The Member for Llanelli, Keith Jane Hutt: Mae'r Aelod dros Lanelli, Keith Davies, is right on this point. The Welsh Davies, yn iawn ar y pwynt hwn. Mae Government is seeking to maximise the Llywodraeth Cymru yn ceisio gwneud y resources available through European mwyaf o'r adnoddau sydd ar gael drwy programmes. We are working with our raglenni Ewropeaidd. Rydym yn gweithio partners in the private, public and third gyda'n partneriaid yn y sectorau preifat, sectors to make the best use of European cyhoeddus a'r trydydd sector i wneud y funds. I am also glad that I, as Minister for defnydd gorau o gronfeydd Ewropeaidd. Yr Finance, am able to assist in terms of targeted wyf hefyd yn falch fy mod, fel y Gweinidog match funding, and am particularly pleased Cyllid, yn gallu cynorthwyo o ran arian that I was able to put some of that funding cyfatebol a dargedir, ac yr wyf yn arbennig o into Llanelli in relation to regeneration. falch fy mod wedi gallu rhoi rhywfaint o'r arian hwnnw i mewn i Lanelli mewn perthynas ag adfywio.
Paul Davies: I am sure that you will Paul Davies: Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn appreciate that it is now more important than sylweddoli ei bod yn bwysicach nag erioed ever that the Welsh Government considers bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried ffyrdd innovative ways of securing investment in arloesol o sicrhau buddsoddiad mewn
8 21/09/2011 capital projects, given the tight financial prosiectau cyfalaf, o ystyried y setliad settlement that we face. Of course, one way ariannol tynn sy'n ein hwynebu. Wrth gwrs, of funding capital projects is through public- un ffordd o ariannu prosiectau cyfalaf yw private partnerships. I recognise that the trwy bartneriaethau cyhoeddus-preifat. Yr previous Welsh administration was openly wyf yn cydnabod bod gweinyddiaeth against using private finance to fund capital flaenorol Cymru yn agored yn ei projects. I would be grateful if the Minister gwrthwynebiad o ran defnyddio arian preifat could tell us whether this administration will i ariannu prosiectau cyfalaf. Byddwn yn consider funding projects through public- ddiolchgar pe gallai’r Gweinidog ddweud private finance initiatives. wrthym a bydd y weinyddiaeth hon yn ystyried prosiectau cyllid trwy fentrau cyllid cyhoeddus-preifat.
Jane Hutt: The opposition finance Jane Hutt: Bydd llefarydd cyllid yr spokesperson, Paul Davies, will recognise wrthblaid, Paul Davies, yn cydnabod y bu i that interesting scrutiny was carried out by a bwyllgor dethol wneud gwaith craffu select committee earlier in the summer, diddorol yn gynharach yn yr haf a nododd ein which identified how right we were not to bod yn llygaid ein lle i beidio â symud progress with out-dated and inappropriate ymlaen â mentrau cyllid preifat hen ffasiwn private finance initiatives, which would have ac amhriodol, a fyddai wedi ein gadael ni, y landed us, the public sector and those we sector cyhoeddus a'r rhai yr ydym yn ceisio seek to support through our capital funds, in eu cefnogi drwy ein cronfeydd cyfalaf, o ran terms of schools and hospitals, in difficulty. ysgolion ac ysbytai, mewn trafferth. Mae This is a topical question from the opposition hwn yn gwestiwn amserol gan lefarydd cyllid finance spokesperson, because we are now at yr wrthblaid, oherwydd yr ydym bellach wedi a point, particularly given the International cyrraedd pwynt, yn enwedig o ystyried y Monetary Fund warning of slashed global rhybudd gan y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol growth prospects, where there is a real o ran rhagolygon twf byd-eang gwaeth, lle challenge to the UK Government to enable us mae her wirioneddol i Lywodraeth y DU er to invest more in capital. I hope that you will mwyn ein galluogi i fuddsoddi mwy o ran have some influence on the coalition cyfalaf. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch yn Government to ensure that public sector medru dylanwadu rhywfaint ar y capital, which we will be debating later on, Llywodraeth glymblaid i sicrhau bod cyfalaf can be used appropriately for the schemes y sector cyhoeddus, y byddwn yn ei drafod that we want to support. yn nes ymlaen, yn gallu cael ei ddefnyddio'n briodol ar gyfer y cynlluniau yr ydym am eu cefnogi.
Paul Davies: I am not sure whether that was Paul Davies: Nid wyf yn siŵr ai 'ie' neu 'na' a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’ from the Minister. I oedd yr ymateb hwnnw gan y Gweinidog. Yr appreciate that the Government is looking at wyf yn sylweddoli bod y Llywodraeth yn other ways of funding capital projects, and, edrych ar ffyrdd eraill o ariannu prosiectau of course, another way of addressing this cyfalaf, ac, wrth gwrs, ffordd arall o fynd i'r would be for the Welsh Government to make afael â hyn yw i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud greater use of the capital available from the mwy o ddefnydd o'r cyfalaf sydd ar gael gan European Investment Bank. Will the Minister Fanc Buddsoddi Ewrop. A wnaiff y outline what discussions the Welsh Gweinidog amlinellu pa drafodaethau y mae Government has had with the European Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cael gyda Banc Investment Bank since the start of the fourth Buddsoddi Ewrop ers dechrau'r pedwerydd Assembly, and will she outline what plans Cynulliad, a bydd yn amlinellu pa gynlluniau she has to work with the European sydd ganddi i weithio gyda Banc Buddsoddi Investment Bank in the future? Ewrop yn y dyfodol?
1.45 p.m.
9 21/09/2011
Jane Hutt: We have had discussions with the Jane Hutt: Yr ydym wedi cael trafodaethau European Investment Bank since the gyda Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop ers i'r Assembly passed our budget, and there were Cynulliad basio ein cyllideb, ac roedd earlier discussions across the Cabinet with trafodaethau cynharach ar draws y Cabinet the European Investment Bank. They are key gyda Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop. Maent yn in ensuring, as we agreed in a unanimous allweddol er mwyn sicrhau, fel y cytunasom motion in the Assembly in July, that we look mewn cynnig unfrydol yn y Cynulliad ym for every possible source of funding to enable mis Gorffennaf, ein bod yn edrych am bob us to borrow and invest, including a request ffynhonnell bosibl o gyllid i'n galluogi i to the UK Government for borrowing powers fenthyca a buddsoddi, gan gynnwys cais i to take this forward. Lywodraeth y DU am bwerau benthyca i fwrw ymlaen â hyn.
Arweinydd Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn The Leader of Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): A yw’r Gweinidog yn sylweddoli Jones): Does the Minister realise that her bod ei blaenoriaethau ar gyfer gwariant yn spending priorities rely entirely on her ability dibynnu’n llwyr ar ei gallu i godi mwy o to raise more capital funding outside of the arian cyfalaf y tu allan i’r bloc? Fe’i gwnaeth block? She made it clear that there is cross- yn glir bod cytundeb ar draws y pleidiau yn party agreement in support of such a move. cefnogi’r cais hwnnw. A all hi ddweud Can she tell us how hopeful she is that she wrthym pa mor ffyddiog ydyw y bydd modd will have the means to access that funding iddi gael mynediad i’r arian hwnnw yn ystod during this Assembly? y Cynulliad hwn?
Jane Hutt: This is a topical and current Jane Hutt: Mae hon yn flaenoriaeth amserol priority for me and, I am sure, for the UK a chyfredol i mi ac, yr wyf yn siŵr, i Government in terms of those worrying Lywodraeth y DU o ran y ffigurau hynny o'r figures from the IMF. I am pleased that inter- IMF sy'n peri pryder. Rwy'n falch bod governmental talks on seeking borrowing trafodaethau rhynglywodraethol ar geisio powers have commenced with the UK pwerau benthyca wedi dechrau gyda Government, as they will help us with the Llywodraeth y DU, gan y byddant yn ein infrastructure plans that we are now helpu gyda'r cynlluniau seilwaith yr ydym yn developing. However, we are exploring the awr yn eu datblygu. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn use of all innovative forms of investment in archwilio'r defnydd o bob math arloesol o public infrastructure in Wales. Last week, fuddsoddi mewn seilwaith cyhoeddus yng Huw Lewis, the Minister for Housing, Nghymru. Yr wythnos diwethaf, aeth Huw Regeneration and Heritage, and I went to Lewis, y Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a help launch the Welsh Housing Partnership, Threftadaeth, a minnau i helpu lansio which has funding from the Principality Partneriaeth Tai Cymru, sydd â chyllid o building society—the first tenant was in gymdeithas adeiladu'r Principality—roedd y Newport. That shows that we are making tenant cyntaf yng Nghasnewydd. Mae progress. hynny'n dangos ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd.
Ieuan Wyn Jones: Yr wyf i’n deall ein bod Ieuan Wyn Jones: I understand that we can yn gallu gwneud rhywfaint o gynnydd, ond make some progress, but the Minister will be mae’r Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod toriad o aware that the 40 per cent cut in the capital dros 40 y cant yn y cyfalaf sydd ar gael i’r funding available to the Government means Llywodraeth yn golygu na fydd nifer o’r that a number of the schemes recommended cynlluniau a argymhellwyd gan y by the previous Government will not be Llywodraeth ddiwethaf yn cael eu cyflawni, delivered, unless a considerable amount of oni bai bod arian sylweddol yn dod i funding comes from the Government’s goffrau’r Llywodraeth. Mae’n rhaid i hynny coffers. That has to happen through ddigwydd gyda benthyca—yr ydym yn borrowing—we accept that she has been derbyn ei bod hi’n gweithio tuag at hynny— working towards that—and she must be ac mae’n rhaid hefyd iddi fod yn arloesol innovative in looking at how we are going to
10 21/09/2011 wrth edrych ar sut yr ydym yn mynd i gael get funding outside of the block that does not arian y tu allan i’r bloc nad yw’n arian yr come through borrowing. ydym yn ei fenthyg.
Mae hi’n ymwybodol inni wneud cynnig She will be aware of the proposal that we sydd wedi cael ei dderbyn fel posibilrwydd made, which has been accepted as a gwerth ei ystyried, sef Adeiladu Cymru, a all possibility worthy of consideration, namely fod yn ffordd arloesol o edrych ar gael arian Build for Wales, which could prove to be an y tu allan i’r bloc. Oherwydd y ffordd y innovative way of seeking funding outside of mae’r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan yn edrych the block grant. Because of the way in which ar arian cyfalaf, yr hyn sydd yn fy mhoeni yw the Government at Westminster looks at ei bod yn debyg mai ar ôl cyfnod yr capital funding, what troubles me is the adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant y bydd yn likelihood that it will not be until after the rhoi mwy o arian i ni o safbwynt benthyca ac comprehensive spending review that it will yn y blaen. Pa mor ffyddiog yw’r Gweinidog give us more funding with regard to y cawn fynediad i’r arian cyfalaf ychwanegol borrowing and so on. How confident is the hwnnw yn ystod tymor presennol yr Minister that we will have access to that adolygiad cynhwysfawr? additional capital funding during the current round of the CSR?
Jane Hutt: The Plaid Cymru spokesperson Jane Hutt: Mae llefarydd Plaid Cymru ar on finance is right that this is urgent—this is gyllid yn iawn fod hyn yn un brys—ni all not to wait for the next spending review. You hwn aros tan yr adolygiad o wariant nesaf. will recall that I issued a statement after the Byddwch yn cofio imi gyhoeddi datganiad ar bilateral and quadrilateral meetings in July at ôl y cyfarfodydd dwyochrog a phedrochr ym which I met with the Chief Secretary to the mis Gorffennaf, lle cwrddais â Phrif Treasury and pressed this very point. This is Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys a phwysleisiais yr for now. I believe this issue is pressing on the union bwynt hwn. Mae hyn am y tro. Yr wyf UK Government as well with regard to the yn credu fod y mater hwn yn pwyso ar flexibility that even Vince Cable said was Lywodraeth y DU hefyd o ran yr necessary to address the economic crisis that hyblygrwydd a ddywedodd hyd yn oed Vince we are part of. I welcome the fact that he Cable oedd yn angenrheidiol i fynd i'r afael recognises the need for that flexibility, â'r argyfwng economaidd yr ydym yn rhan because I hope that that approach will bear ohono. Croesawaf y ffaith ei fod yn cydnabod fruit in the inter-governmental talks that have yr angen am yr hyblygrwydd hwnnw, now commenced—the talks include oherwydd yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y dull borrowing as a key part. However, alongside gweithredu yn dwyn ffrwyth yn y that, we are developing our infrastructure trafodaethau rhynglywodraethol sydd bellach plan. wedi cychwyn—mae’r trafodaethau yn cynnwys benthyca fel rhan allweddol. Fodd bynnag, ochr yn ochr â hynny, yr ydym yn datblygu ein cynllun seilwaith.
Peter Black: Minister, you know that the Peter Black: Weinidog, byddwch yn gwybod Welsh Government is already using PFI bod Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes yn defnyddio schemes, for example, for building doctors’ cynlluniau menter cyllid preifat, er enghraifft, surgeries, and the Minister for Health and ar gyfer adeiladu meddygfeydd, ac mae'r Social Services has said that she is relaxed Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau about the use of private facilities in the health Cymdeithasol wedi dweud ei bod yn service, particularly in orthopaedics. I think hamddenol am y defnydd o gyfleusterau this pretence that it is all public sector and no preifat yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn enwedig private is a little disingenuous. I want to ask mewn orthopedeg. Yr wyf yn meddwl bod you about the innovation work that you are esgus fod hwn yn ymwneud â’r sector pursuing to raise capital moneys. Clearly, PFI cyhoeddus yn unig heb fewnbwn gan y sector is not an option, but are you looking at other preifat ychydig yn ffuantus. Yr wyf am eich
11 21/09/2011 ways of bringing in private capital in order to holi am y gwaith arloesi yr ydych yn ei increase the capital spending power of the ddilyn i godi arian cyfalaf. Yn amlwg, nid yw Welsh Government? PFI yn opsiwn, ond a ydych yn edrych ar ffyrdd eraill o ddod i mewn â chyfalaf preifat er mwyn cynyddu grym gwario cyfalaf Llywodraeth Cymru?
Jane Hutt: Peter Black is right to press me Jane Hutt: Mae Peter Black yn iawn i fy on exploring all possible means of levering mhwyso o ran archwilio pob dull posibl o more capital into public sector infrastructure ddenu mwy o gyfalaf i fuddsoddi yn investment. That is what I intend to do. I seilwaith y sector cyhoeddus. Dyna'r hyn yr have mentioned the Welsh Housing wyf yn bwriadu ei wneud. Yr wyf wedi sôn Partnership, which is a partnership with the am Bartneriaeth Tai Cymru, sy'n bartneriaeth Principality building society, and for which gyda chymdeithas adeiladu'r Principality, ac £3 million has been levered in from the y mae £3 miliwn wedi'i ysgogi wrth Welsh Government. It is a collaborative Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n grŵp group of housing associations and registered cydweithredol o gymdeithasau tai a social landlords that have come together to landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig sydd create a vehicle to enable them to access that wedi dod at ei gilydd i greu cyfrwng er mwyn funding. That will result in 150 houses being eu galluogi i gael gafael ar y cyllid hwnnw. built, and affordable housing is crucial. That Bydd hynny’n arwain at adeiladu 150 o dai, is one example of something practical that we ac y mae tai fforddiadwy yn hanfodol. Dyna are already doing. We will explore all un enghraifft o rywbeth ymarferol yr ydym innovative forms of investment in public eisoes yn ei wneud. Byddwn yn archwilio'r infrastructure, to maximise the impact of our holl ffurfiau arloesol o fuddsoddi mewn drastically reduced capital budget, and of seilwaith cyhoeddus i gynyddu effaith ein course the private sector will play a key part cyllideb gyfalaf sydd wedi lleihau'n in that. One need only look at the new waste sylweddol, ac wrth gwrs bydd y sector preifat infrastructure initiative: it is covered by the yn chwarae rhan allweddol yn hynny. Nid oes private sector and will be charged to local ond angen edrych ar y fenter seilwaith authorities over time. gwastraff newydd: mae'n cael ei gwmpasu gan y sector preifat a bydd yn cael ei godi ar awdurdodau lleol dros gyfnod o amser.
Peter Black: Thank you for that answer, Peter Black: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Minister. I want to press you further on the Weinidog. Yr wyf am bwyso arnoch issue of housing. What has happened to the ymhellach ar y mater o dai. Beth sydd wedi Welsh housing investment trust, which was digwydd i'r ymddiriedolaeth buddsoddi tai being pursued by the last Government? What Cymru, a oedd yn cael ei ddilyn gan y progress has been made on that? When can Llywodraeth ddiwethaf? Pa gynnydd sydd we expect an announcement on whether that wedi'i wneud ar hynny? Pryd y gallwn will in fact happen? ddisgwyl cyhoeddiad ynghylch a fydd hynny’n digwydd mewn gwirionedd?
Jane Hutt: The Welsh Housing Partnership Jane Hutt: Mae Partneriaeth Tai Cymru has come out of our considerations of the wedi dod allan o'n ystyriaethau o feasibility of the Welsh housing investment ddichonoldeb ymddiriedolaeth buddsoddi tai trust. Indeed, we have moved on from that to Cymru. Yn wir, yr ydym wedi symud ymlaen develop the Welsh Housing Partnership o hynny i ddatblygu Partneriaeth Tai Cymru because there were obstacles and barriers to am fod rhwystrau o ran creu ymddiriedolaeth the creation of a full-blown Welsh housing fuddsoddi tai Cymru llawn. Cyfarfu Huw investment trust. Huw Lewis and I met the Lewis a minnau y sefydliadau sydd yn ei organisations that are taking it forward, and gymryd ymlaen, a daeth Nick Bennett o Nick Bennett of Community Housing Cymru Gartrefi Cymunedol Cymru â’r arbenigedd y brought along the expertise that that mae’r sefydliad hwnnw wedi’i ennill o'i
12 21/09/2011 organisation has gained from its financial fforwm gwasanaethau ariannol. Roedd ei services forum. Its officials were meeting the swyddogion yn cwrdd ag ymddiriedolaeth housing corporation capital finance trust that cyllid cyfalaf y gorfforaeth dai y diwrnod day to make progress on the Welsh bond for hwnnw i wneud cynnydd ar fond Cymru ar social housing. Therefore, we are progressing gyfer tai cymdeithasol. Felly, yr ydym yn further than you might imagine, and I will symud ymlaen ymhellach nag y gallwch make sure that you receive feedback on ddychmygu, a byddaf yn gwneud yn siŵr developments. eich bod yn cael adborth ar ddatblygiadau.
Cyllideb Ychwanegol Additional Funding
5. Angela Burns: A yw’r Gweinidog wedi 5. Angela Burns: Has the Minister received cael unrhyw sylwadau yn gofyn am gyllid any representations seeking additional ychwanegol i’r gyllideb Addysg a Sgiliau i funding to the Education and Skills budget to helpu i liniaru’r pwysau ariannol sy’n help relieve the financial pressures relating ymwneud â ffioedd dysgu. OAQ(4)0031(FIN) to tuition fees. OAQ(4)0031(FIN)
Jane Hutt: I have held discussions and Jane Hutt: Yr wyf wedi cynnal trafodaethau received representations from all Ministers as ac wedi derbyn sylwadau gan bob part of the 2011 budget process to discuss the Gweinidog, fel rhan o broses y gyllideb 2011 financial implications of their key pledges. i drafod goblygiadau ariannol eu haddewidion allweddol.
Angela Burns: Thank you for that response, Angela Burns: Diolch ichi am yr ymateb Minister. When talking about the flow of hwnnw, Weinidog. Wrth siarad am y llif money from Wales to UK universities, the arian o Gymru i brifysgolion yn y DU, Minister for Education and Skills said that dywedodd y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau
‘If we are to create an affordable and Os ydym am greu ateb fforddiadwy a sustainable solution for Welsh domiciled chynaliadwy ar gyfer myfyrwyr sy'n hanu o students and HE provision in Wales, then we Gymru a darpariaeth AU yng Nghymru, yna will need to respond creatively to this bydd angen i ni ymateb yn greadigol i'r her challenge’. hon.
By 2020, we will probably be giving £64 Erbyn 2020, byddwn yn ôl pob tebyg yn rhoi million a year to UK universities, so, given £64 miliwn y flwyddyn i brifysgolion y DU, that some of our universities have a much felly, o gofio bod rhai o'n prifysgolion yn higher percentage of students who come from cael canran llawer uwch o fyfyrwyr sy'n dod Wales or the rest of the European Union than o Gymru neu o weddill yr Undeb Ewropeaidd students who come from the rest of the UK— na myfyrwyr sy'n dod o weddill y DU—mae Newport, for example, has 2,300 such gan Casnewydd, er enghraifft, 2,300 o students against 900 are from the rest of the fyfyrwyr o'r fath yn erbyn 900 sy’n dod o UK—and given that there is an enormous weddill y DU—ac o ystyried bod yna dwll du black hole in the financial formula, could you enfawr yn y fformiwla ariannol, a allwch chi share with us, Minister, the creative answers rannu gyda ni, Weinidog, yr atebion that you have come up with in order to meet creadigol yr ydych wedi eu llunio, er mwyn the challenge that tuition fees and the cwrdd â'r her y bydd ffioedd dysgu a chynnal maintenance of the strategy and policy will y strategaeth a pholisi yn peri ar gyfer y wlad pose for this country over the next nine hon dros y naw mlynedd nesaf? years?
Jane Hutt: I am sure that the Member for Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yr Aelod Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire dros Orllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro will understand that the Minister for Finance yn deall nad yw'r Gweinidog Cyllid yn dod o does not come up with creative answers or hyd i atebion creadigol neu datrysiadau; mae
13 21/09/2011 solutions; she comes up with realistic, well- hi'n dod o hyd i atebion i gwestiynau sy’n founded and robust answers to questions. realistig a chadarn, gyda sail dda. Diolch am Thank you for the opportunity to express the y cyfle i fynegi cefnogaeth barhaus Welsh Government’s continued support, and Llywodraeth Cymru, a chefnogaeth Aelodau that of Members on this side of the Chamber, ar ochr hon y Siambr, am y polisi hwn, sy'n for this policy, which fulfils one of our key cyflawni un o'n haddewidion maniffesto manifesto pledges, namely to maintain the allweddol, sef i gynnal y gefnogaeth a support that we give students. I know that the roddwn i fyfyrwyr. Gwn fod y Gweinidog Minister for Education and Skills is anxious Addysg a Sgiliau yn awyddus i godi ar ei to get to his feet, but I will speak on his draed, ond byddaf yn siarad ar ei ran heddiw i behalf today to say that rigorous financial ddweud bod modelu ariannol trylwyr wedi modelling has been undertaken to ensure that cael ei wneud i sicrhau bod y newidiadau the pioneering changes are sustainable. arloesol yn gynaliadwy.
Jenny Rathbone: Young people are very Jenny Rathbone: Mae pobl ifanc yn grateful for the Welsh Government’s action ddiolchgar iawn am gamau Llywodraeth to protect them from the tripling of tuition Cymru i'w hamddiffyn rhag ffioedd dysgu fees. I would like to look at the impact on sy’n treblu. Hoffwn edrych ar effaith y universities in Wales of the reduction in the gostyngiad yn y grant addysgu gan teaching grant from the UK Government and Lywodraeth y DU ar brifysgolion yng the impact that that has on their ability to Nghymru a'r effaith a gaiff hynny ar eu gallu offer scholarships, both to encourage students i gynnig ysgoloriaethau, i annog myfyrwyr, who are exceptionally bright to go to Welsh sydd yn eithriadol o ddisglair, i fynd i rather than English universities, and also to brifysgolion yng Nghymru yn hytrach na help those from disadvantaged backgrounds phrifysgolion yn Lloegr, a hefyd i helpu’r who may need scholarships to enable them to rhai o gefndiroedd difreintiedig a allai fod attend. Can you tell us whether the Welsh angen ysgoloriaethau arnynt er mwyn eu Government has any ideas on how we can galluogi i fynychu. A allwch ddweud wrthym support the creation of scholarships in Welsh a oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru unrhyw universities? syniadau ar sut y gallwn gefnogi'r gwaith o greu ysgoloriaethau ym mhrifysgolion Cymru?
Jane Hutt: I can assure the Member for Jane Hutt: Gallaf sicrhau'r Aelod dros Ganol Cardiff Central that the Welsh Government’s Caerdydd fod polisi Llywodraeth Cymru ar policy on supporting students and the higher gefnogi myfyrwyr a’r sector addysg uwch yn education sector takes a whole-sector defnyddio ymagwedd sector gyfan. Rydym approach. We took account of the income yn ystyried yr incwm a oedd yn debygol o that was likely to be available to higher fod ar gael i sefydliadau addysg uwch pan education institutions when we undertook gynhaliwyd modelu manwl yn ystod ein detailed modelling during our policy datblygiad polisi. Yn wir, yr oedd yn rhaid i’r development. Indeed, the undertakings that ymrwymiadau yr oedd y sefydliadau addysg the higher education institutions had to give uwch yn gorfod rhoi i ni o ran y trefniadau us in terms of the fee and grant arrangements ffioedd a grant gynnwys cydnabyddiaeth o’r had to include recognition of these particular anghenion penodol hyn. needs.
Simon Thomas: Hoffwn dynnu eich sylw at Simon Thomas: I would like to draw to your adroddiad diweddar yr OECD, sy’n dangos attention the recent OECD report, which bod myfyrwyr yng Nghymru a Lloegr ar hyn shows that students in Wales and England o bryd yn talu dwywaith cymaint tuag at eu currently pay twice as much towards their haddysg uwch â myfyrwyr mewn bron education as students in almost any other unrhyw wlad ddatblygedig arall. Bydd y developed country. This situation will worsen sefyllfa hon yn gwaethygu yn Lloegr wrth i in England as teaching fees rise to some ffioedd dysgu godi i ryw £9,000—a dylem £9,000—we should praise the Welsh
14 21/09/2011 ganmol Llywodraeth Cymru am amddiffyn Government for defending students under the myfyrwyr drwy’r fargen a darwyd rhwng ei deal struck between the Minister’s party and phlaid hi a Phlaid Cymru yn y Llywodraeth Plaid Cymru in the previous Government. ddiwethaf. Weinidog, a wnewch edrych ar yr Minister, will you look at that report and the adroddiad hwnnw a’r feirniadaeth ynddo criticism therein with regard to the possible ynglŷn â’r effaith bosibl ar yr economi o effect that large student debts will have on ganlyniad i ddyledion mawr i fyfyrwyr? the economy? I ask again that you clearly Gofynnaf i chi eto ddatgan yn glir y bydd y state that the current policy will continue for polisi presennol yn parhau drwy gydol y the entirety of this Government. Llywodraeth hon.
Jane Hutt: I welcome your continued Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn croesawu eich support for the policy, and I believe that that cefnogaeth barhaus am y polisi, a chredaf fod is the case in terms of your question. hynny'n wir o ran eich cwestiwn.
Sandy Mewies: Minister, the leader of the Sandy Mewies: Weinidog, mae arweinydd Welsh Liberal Democrats is elsewhere today, Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn rhywle busy stating that it is right for her party to be arall heddiw, yn brysur yn datgan ei fod yn propping up the Conservative-led coalition iawn i’w phlaid i ddal y glymblaid a arweinir and that they will not support our Welsh gan y Ceidwadwyr i fyny ac na fyddant yn budget if it does not give more money to cefnogi ein cyllideb Gymreig os nad yw'n schools. Do you, like me, find this a strange rhoi mwy o arian i ysgolion. A ydych chi, fel paradox—not supporting moneys for the fi, yn gweld hyn yn baradocs—peidio â educational maintenance allowances and chefnogi arian ar gyfer y lwfansau tuition fees for Welsh students, but cynhaliaeth addysgol a ffioedd dysgu i supporting the cuts in England? Or, like me, fyfyrwyr Cymru, ond cefnogi'r toriadau yn do you feel that this is just another example Lloegr? Neu, fel fi, a ydych yn teimlo bod of the Liberal Democrats facing two ways, or hyn ond yn enghraifft arall o'r Democratiaid sitting on the fence, whichever phrase you Rhyddfrydol yn wynebu dwy ffordd, neu’n choose? eistedd ar y ffens, pa un bynnag ymadrodd yr ydych yn ei ddewis?
Jane Hutt: I hope that we can see a different Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn gobeithio y gallwn approach emerging from the Welsh Liberal weld dull gwahanol yn dod i'r amlwg gan Democrats in terms of support for these Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru o ran policies. I know that education lies at the cefnogaeth i’r polisïau hyn. Gwn fod addysg heart of their objectives. wrth wraidd eu hamcanion.
Cymunedau Teithio Travelling Communities
6. William Graham: Pa asesiad y mae’r 6. William Graham: What assessment has Gweinidog wedi’i wneud ynghylch effaith the Minister made concerning the impact of penderfyniad yr Uchel Lys ynghylch Dale the High Court decision with regard to Dale Farm ar gymunedau teithio yng Nghymru. Farm upon travelling communities in Wales. OAQ(4)0019(FIN) OAQ(4)0019(FIN)
Jane Hutt: The Welsh Government will Jane Hutt: Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn continue to work with local authorities and parhau i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol a Gypsies and Travellers to increase the Sipsiwn a Theithwyr i gynyddu nifer y number of official sites and thereby reduce safleoedd swyddogol a thrwy hynny leihau the level of unauthorised sites. It is the lefel y safleoedd anawdurdodedig. responsibility of local authorities to assess the Cyfrifoldeb yr awdurdodau lleol ydyw i asesu accommodation needs of Gypsies and anghenion llety Sipsiwn a Theithwyr. Travellers.
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William Graham: Thank you for your William Graham: Diolch am eich ateb, answer, Minister. Without wishing to Weinidog. Heb ddymuno archwilio manylion examine the details of the Dale Farm case, achos Dale Farm, sydd yn destun achos which is subject to ongoing legal cyfreithiol parhaus, a ydych yn cytuno y gall proceedings, do you agree that there may be fod llawer o wersi i'w dysgu o'r many lessons to be learned from the recent digwyddiadau anffodus diweddar, ar gyfer unfortunate events, both for your eich Llywodraeth ac ar gyfer awdurdodau Government and for local authorities in lleol yng Nghymru? Mae'r achos yn Wales? The case underlines the need for tanlinellu'r angen i awdurdodau gael deialog authorities to have an adequate dialogue with digonol gyda chymunedau Teithwyr er mwyn Traveller communities to better understand deall eu hanghenion yn well a phwysleisio their needs and emphasise the importance of pwysigrwydd cadw at ddeddfwriaeth adhering to planning legislation. Bearing in gynllunio. O gofio bod y sylw cenedlaethol mind that the national coverage of the Dale o’r achos o droi allan yn Dale Farm yn Farm eviction concerned people across Wales pryderu pobl ledled Cymru ynghylch about the demands of Traveller communities, gofynion cymunedau Teithwyr, pa gamau a what events will you put in train as a gymerwch fel Llywodraeth i sicrhau nad yw Government to ensure that local authorities awdurdodau lleol yn caniatáu i do not allow such events to occur in Wales? ddigwyddiadau o'r fath ddigwydd yng Nghymru?
Jane Hutt: I would like to thank William Jane Hutt: Hoffwn ddiolch i William Graham for this question. It gives me the Graham am y cwestiwn hwn. Mae'n rhoi opportunity to tell Members that the Welsh cyfle i mi ddweud wrth Aelodau bod Government is providing guidance to local Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu canllawiau i authorities on planning, designing and awdurdodau lleol ar gynllunio, dylunio a managing Gypsy and Traveller sites in order rheoli safleoedd Sipsiwn a Theithwyr er to support them in carrying out their statutory mwyn eu cefnogi wrth gyflawni eu duties. We have increased the funding to dyletswyddau statudol. Yr ydym wedi Welsh local authorities to refurbish existing cynyddu'r cyllid i awdurdodau lleol Cymru i sites or to build new ones. That funding has adnewyddu safleoedd presennol, neu i increased from 75 per cent to 100 per cent, adeiladu rhai newydd. Mae'r cyllid hwnnw which is very important in light of the wedi cynyddu o 75 y cant i 100 y cant, sy'n pressure on the budget. I would also like to bwysig iawn yn sgil y pwysau ar y gyllideb. alert Members to the fact that, on 29 Hoffwn hefyd dynnu sylw Aelodau at y ffaith September, I will be launching the y byddaf, ar 29 Medi, yn lansio fframwaith ‘Travelling Ahead’ framework for action, 'Teithio Ymlaen' ar gyfer gweithredu, a fydd which will set out the priorities in relation to yn nodi blaenoriaethau mewn perthynas â Gypsies and Travellers. I hope that that will Sipsiwn a Theithwyr. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y be a positive announcement that Members bydd hynny'n gyhoeddiad cadarnhaol y bydd will welcome. Aelodau'n ei groesawu.
2.00 p.m.
Mick Antoniw: Minister, the measure of a Mick Antoniw: Weinidog, y mesur o civilised society is the tolerance that it is able gymdeithas waraidd yw’r goddefgarwch y to show for minorities and others who choose mae’n gallu dangos i leiafrifoedd a phobl a different lifestyle. Does the Minister agree eraill sy’n dewis ffordd wahanol o fyw. A that the planning Bill that is to be proposed by yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno y bydd y Bil the Welsh Government will offer an cynllunio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei opportunity to repair some of the damage that gynnig yn gyfle i atgyweirio rhywfaint o’r was done in the 1980s when the legal difrod a wnaethpwyd yn y 1980au pan obligations to provide sites were removed? ddiddymwyd y rhwymedigaethau cyfreithiol i Our policy should reflect the particular needs ddarparu safleoedd? Dylai ein polisi of the children of those families in relation to adlewyrchu anghenion penodol plant y
16 21/09/2011 services and education facilities. teuluoedd hynny mewn perthynas â gwasanaethau a chyfleusterau addysg.
Jane Hutt: Mick Antoniw raises another Jane Hutt: Mae Mick Antoniw yn codi important point that relates to the support that pwynt pwysig arall sy’n ymwneud â’r we are giving to Save the Children for its cymorth a roddwn i Achub y Plant ar gyfer ei educational work with Gypsy and Traveller waith addysgol gyda phlant a phobl ifanc o children and young people. I met its gymunedau Sipsiwn a Theithwyr. Cefais representatives in August, along with a young gyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr o’r mudiad ym person from Pembrokeshire who has mis Awst, ynghyd â pherson ifanc o Sir benefited from the education grant available Benfro sydd wedi elwa ar y grant addysg sydd to Save the Children. She is about to start in ar gael i Achub y Plant. Mae hi ar fin dechrau employment as a teaching assistant in a mewn cyflogaeth fel cynorthwyydd addysgu school in Pembrokeshire. I urge Members to mewn ysgol yn Sir Benfro. Anogaf yr look at the ‘Travelling to a Better Future’ Aelodau i edrych ar y fframwaith gweithredu framework for action because it covers all ‘Teithio at Ddyfodol Gwell’, oherwydd mae’n issues regarding our strong support for cwmpasu’r holl faterion ynghylch ein Gypsies and Travellers, which is also cefnogaeth gref ar gyfer Sipsiwn a Theithwyr, expressed across this Chamber. a fynegir hefyd ar draws y Siambr hon.
Jocelyn Davies: Problems are more likely to Jocelyn Davies: Mae problemau yn fwy arise in unauthorised sites. Your current tebygol o godi ar safleoedd sydd heb eu strategy asks local authorities to provide hawdurdodi. Mae eich strategaeth gyfredol yn licensed sites where there is a need. Are there gofyn i awdurdodau lleol ddarparu safleoedd any local authorities that are not providing trwyddedig lle bo angen. A oes unrhyw appropriate provision and, as a result of that awdurdodau lleol nad ydynt yn darparu neglect, are encouraging unlicensed sites to be darpariaeth briodol, ac, o ganlyniad i’r set up and are overburdening the councils that esgeulustod hwnnw, yn annog safleoedd heb take their responsibilities seriously? Will you eu trwyddedu i gael eu sefydlu ac yn rhoi commit to continuing to fund this strategy? gormod o bwysau ar y cynghorau hynny sy’n cymryd eu cyfrifoldebau o ddifrif? A allwch ymrwymo i barhau i ariannu’r strategaeth hon?
Jane Hutt: The commitment that we made in Jane Hutt: Mae’r ymrwymiad a wnaethom this budget—a pressed budget—to increase yn y gyllideb hon—cyllideb wasgedig—i the refurbishment grant from 75 per cent to gynyddu’r grant adnewyddu o 75 y cant i 100 100 per cent is an indication of our support y cant yn arwydd o’n cefnogaeth i for Welsh local authorities. The situation in awdurdodau lleol Cymru. Y sefyllfa yng Wales is that there are a number of Nghymru yw bod nifer o wersylloedd heb eu unauthorised encampments that do not have hawdurdodi nad oes ganddynt ganiatâd planning permission. We are seeking to work cynllunio. Rydym yn ceisio gweithio’n agos closely with local authorities to support them gydag awdurdodau lleol i’w cynorthwyo i in carrying out their statutory duties. gyflawni eu dyletswyddau statudol.
Julie Morgan: Will the Minister assure me Julie Morgan: A all y Gweinidog roi that the disgraceful situation that has arisen in sicrwydd na fydd y sefyllfa warthus sydd Dale Farm in Basildon—where old people wedi codi yn Dale Farm yn Basildon—lle and children are being made homeless mae pobl hŷn a phlant yn cael eu gwneud yn because there is an inadequate provision of ddigartref oherwydd darpariaeth annigonol o sites in the area—will not happen in Wales? safleoedd yn yr ardal honno—yn digwydd Does she think that enough legal sites are yng Nghymru? A yw’n credu y darperir digon provided in Wales for the Gypsy and o safleoedd cyfreithiol yng Nghymru ar gyfer Traveller population? y boblogaeth Sipsiwn a Theithwyr?
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Jane Hutt: The challenge of ensuring that Jane Hutt: Bydd yr her o sicrhau bod local authorities are undertaking their awdurdodau lleol yn cyflawni eu responsibilities will come to the fore when we cyfrifoldebau yn dod i’r amlwg pan publish the framework for action. They must gyhoeddwn y fframwaith gweithredu. Rhaid assess the housing needs of Gypsies and iddynt asesu anghenion o ran tai Sipsiwn a Travellers of all generations. All generations Theithwyr o bob cenhedlaeth. Mae’r sefyllfa have been affected by the situation at Dale yn Dale Farm wedi effeithio ar bob Farm and we know how important that full cenhedlaeth a gwyddom pa mor bwysig yw assessment is. I trust that we will move asesiad llawn o hynny. Hyderaf y byddwn yn forward, in partnership with local authorities, symud ymlaen, mewn partneriaeth ag to ensure that this does not happen in Wales. awdurdodau lleol, i sicrhau na fydd hyn yn In fact, we are at the forefront of addressing digwydd yng Nghymru. Mewn gwirionedd, yr this. ydym ar flaen y gad o ran ymdrin â hyn.
Blaenoriaethau Priorities
7. Andrew R.T. Davies: Beth yw 7. Andrew R.T. Davies: What are the blaenoriaethau portffolio’r Gweinidog ar Minister’s portfolio priorities for the South gyfer rhanbarth Canol De Cymru. Wales Central region. OAQ(4)0026(FIN) OAQ(4)0026(FIN)
Jane Hutt: I will publish the draft budget for Jane Hutt: Byddaf yn cyhoeddi’r gyllideb 2012-13 on 4 October, and it will set out how ddrafft ar gyfer 2012-13 ar 4 Hydref, a bydd we will continue to deliver our priorities and yn gosod allan sut y byddwn yn parhau i deliver for the people of Wales, including gyflawni ein blaenoriaethau a chyflawni ar South Wales Central. gyfer pobl Cymru, gan gynnwys Canol De Cymru.
The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Andrew R.T. R.T. Davies): Something brought to my Davies): Rhywbeth sydd wedi’i ddwyn i’m attention recently by a constituent is the state sylw yn ddiweddar gan etholwr yw cyflwr of certain parts of the Welsh Government’s rhai rhannau o ystâd Llywodraeth Cymru, yn estate, particularly land acquired for enwedig tir sydd wedi’i gaffael i’w development. Your portfolio responsibilities ddatblygu. Mae’r cyfrifoldebau yn eich include land development and disposal. How portffolio yn cynnwys datblygu a defnyddio does your department audit and check that tir. Sut mae eich adran yn archwilio a gwirio land and buildings are kept in a good bod tir ac adeiladau yn cael eu cadw mewn condition, that there is not a significant cyflwr da, nad oes dirywiad sylweddol yn eu deterioration in their value, and that they are gwerth a’u bod yn cael eu cynnal fel bod maintained so that taxpayers get the best trethdalwyr yn cael y gwerth gorau am yr value for those assets? asedau hynny?
Jane Hutt: I can assure the leader of the Jane Hutt: Gallaf roi sicrwydd i arweinydd opposition that they are a part of my yr wrthblaid eu bod yn rhan o’m responsibilities and that there is a national cyfrifoldebau a bod yna weithgor asedau assets working group that answers to me. I cenedlaethol sy’n atebol i mi. Yr wyf am want to hear about any examples—indeed, I glywed am unrhyw enghreifftiau—yn wir, yr am sure that you will give them to me—of wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn eu rhoi i mi—os where you feel that we have fallen short in ydych yn teimlo ein bod heb gyrraedd y nod the management of our estate. The o ran rheoli ein hystâd. Mae sefydlu cronfa establishment of an all-Wales public sector ddata eiddo sector cyhoeddus ar gyfer Cymru property database is important as a platform gyfan yn bwysig fel llwyfan i ystyried nid yn to take on board not only our estate, but all of unig ein hystâd ni ond holl ystâd y sector the public sector estate. It will play an cyhoeddus. Bydd yn chwarae rhan bwysig ac important part and feed into the Minister for yn bwydo i mewn i agenda ddiwygio
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Local Government and Communities’ public gwasanaethau cyhoeddus y Gweinidog services reform agenda. It will be crucial in Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau. Bydd yn terms of achieving value for money and the hollbwysig o ran sicrhau gwerth am arian a maintenance of our estate. chynnal a chadw ein hystâd.
Leanne Wood: Minister, unemployment is Leanne Wood: Weinidog, mae diweithdra rising fast throughout Wales and the market yn cynyddu’n gyflym ledled Cymru ac mae’r has failed to provide jobs in some areas since farchnad wedi methu â darparu swyddi mewn the end of heavy industry. Therefore, the rhai ardaloedd ers diwedd diwydiant trwm. chances of the private sector filling the gaps Felly, mae’r tebygolrwydd y bydd y sector left by the public sector in terms of jobs are preifat yn llenwi bylchau a adawyd gan y very slim indeed. Do you accept that the sector cyhoeddus o ran swyddi yn fach iawn. market has failed to provide jobs and that it A ydych yn derbyn bod y farchnad wedi will continue to fail communities in Wales? methu â darparu swyddi ac y bydd yn parhau If so, do you agree that the Government i fethu cymunedau yng Nghymru? Os felly, a should intervene where the market has ydych yn cytuno y dylai’r Llywodraeth failed? Further to that, will you support calls ymyrryd lle mae’r farchnad wedi methu? At for the devolution of the budget for Remploy hynny, a fyddwch yn cefnogi galwadau i factories so that supported employment, ddatganoli’r gyllideb ar gyfer ffatrïoedd which is vital for some people in our Remploy fel bod cyflogaeth a gynorthwyir, communities, can continue to be provided, sy’n hollbwysig i rai pobl yn ein cymunedau, not only in South Wales Central but yn parhau i gael ei ddarparu, nid yn unig yng throughout the whole of Wales? Nghanol De Cymru ond ledled Cymru gyfan?
Jane Hutt: Leanne Wood raises an Jane Hutt: Mae Leanne Wood yn codi important point about our responsibilities for pwynt pwysig am ein cyfrifoldebau dros intervening, which we take very seriously. ymyrryd, yr ydym yn eu cymryd o ddifrif. You will recall that, in the former One Wales Byddwch yn cofio, yn y Llywodraeth Government, we set up an economic summit, Cymru’n Un blaenorol, inni sefydlu bringing together the private sector, trade uwchgynhadledd economaidd, gan ddwyn unions and local government to address the ynghyd y sector preifat, undebau llafur a recession and lead Wales out of recession. llywodraeth leol i fynd i’r afael â’r That was led by the former Deputy First dirwasgiad ac arwain Cymru allan o’r Minister. We intervened by developing dirwasgiad hwnnw. Arweiniwyd hynny gan ProAct as well as Adapt, the scheme that y cyn Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog. Yr ydym helps public sector workers who have wedi ymyrryd drwy ddatblygu ProAct yn experienced job loss or redundancy. The key ogystal ag Adapt, y cynllun sy’n helpu point with regard to responsibility for gweithwyr yn y sector cyhoeddus sydd wedi Remploy is something that we need to look colli eu swyddi neu sydd wedi’u diswyddo. at in relation to influencing the prospects for Mae’r pwynt allweddol o ran y cyfrifoldeb that very important part of supported dros Remploy yn rhywbeth y mae angen inni employment. edrych arno mewn perthynas â dylanwadu ar y rhagolygon ar gyfer y rhan bwysig iawn honno o gyflogaeth a gynorthwyir.
Eluned Parrott: Being new and naïve, I am Eluned Parrott: Oherwydd fy mod yn sure that it is a coincidence that the surprise newydd ac yn naïf, yr wyf yn siŵr ei bod yn announcement on enterprise zones this week gyd-ddigwyddiad bod y cyhoeddiad followed hot on the heels of the annisgwyl ar barthau menter yr wythnos hon announcement that the Jaguar engine factory wedi dilyn mor gyflym ar ôl y cyhoeddiad na would not be locating here. Obviously, I am fyddai ffatri injans Jaguar yn cael ei lleoli grateful that there will be two enterprise yma. Yn amlwg, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar y zones in my region, one of which is, of bydd yna ddau barth menter yn fy rhanbarth course, in the Minister’s own constituency. i, ac mae un ohonynt, wrth gwrs, yn
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However, I would be grateful to know more etholaeth y Gweinidog ei hun. Fodd bynnag, about the financing. What discussions has the byddwn yn ddiolchgar i gael gwybod mwy Minister had about the finance necessary for am y cyllid sydd ar gael. Pa drafodaethau y establishing these enterprise zones, mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u cael ynghylch y particularly with regard to business rates and cyllid sy’n angenrheidiol ar gyfer sefydlu y other tax breaks? parthau menter hyn, yn enwedig o ran ardrethi busnes a gostyngiadau eraill?
Jane Hutt: I am glad of the opportunity to Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn falch o gael y cyfle i welcome Eluned Parrott, who lives in my groesawu Eluned Parrott, sy’n byw yn fy constituency, and her regional constituency. I etholaeth, ac yn ei hetholaeth ranbarthol. Yr am glad that she has welcomed the wyf yn falch ei bod wedi croesawu’r announcement about St Athan, as have cyhoeddiad ynghylch Sain Tathan, fel Members across the Chamber, because it is Aelodau ar draws y Siambr, oherwydd mae’n vital that we provide that opportunity, hollbwysig inni ddarparu’r cyfle hwnnw, yn particularly for aerospace development in arbennig ar gyfer datblygiadau awyrofod yn south-east Wales. I responded on this issue ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Ymatebais ar y mater during business questions yesterday and hwn yn ystod y cwestiynau busnes ddoe, gan mentioned the letter that went out to sôn am y llythyr a anfonwyd at Aelodau am Members about the detailed work that needs y gwaith manwl sydd angen ei wneud. Gyda to be done. With my support as Minister for fy nghefnogaeth fel y Gweinidog Cyllid, Finance, the Minister for Business, mae’r Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg Enterprise, Technology and Science is taking a Gwyddoniaeth yn dwyn y mater hwn this forward to clarify the position with ymlaen i egluro’r sefyllfa o ran ysgogiadau a regard to financial levers and opportunities. chyfleoedd ariannol.
Cyllideb Budget
8. Andrew R.T. Davies: A wnaiff y 8. Andrew R.T. Davies: Will the Minister Gweinidog ddatganiad am fonitro cyllideb make a statement on the monitoring of the Llywodraeth Cymru. OAQ(4)0024(FIN) Welsh Government’s budget. OAQ(4)0024(FIN)
Jane Hutt: The Welsh Government has Jane Hutt: Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru rigorous budget monitoring arrangements in drefniadau trwyadl ar gyfer monitro’r place that ensure that expenditure is targeted gyllideb sy’n sicrhau y targedir gwariant ar on key priorities and that it is used to flaenoriaethau allweddol ac y caiff ei maximum effect. ddefnyddio i’r eithaf.
Andrew R.T. Davies: Minister, one of the Andrew R.T. Davies: Weinidog, un o’r things that I assume that you, as Minister for pethau y tybiaf eich bod chi, fel y Gweinidog Finance, are always vigilant about is Cyllid, bob amser yn wyliadwrus ohonynt yw monitoring the liabilities that the monitro rhwymedigaethau y gallai’r Government might be absorbing. Recently, I Llywodraeth fod yn eu hamsugno. Yn have been approached by several ddiweddar, mae nifer o’m hetholwyr wedi constituents about continuing care claims. dod ataf mewn perthynas â hawliadau gofal Up until 2003 the Government has incurred parhaus. Hyd at 2003, mae’r Llywodraeth more than £3 million-worth of interest wedi ysgwyddo mwy na £3 miliwn o log yn y liability in that field alone. I am in the maes hwnnw yn unig. Yr wyf wrthi’n casglu process of collecting the data from 2003 to data o 2003 hyd heddiw. Pa waith ydych yn ei the present day. What work do you undertake wneud gyda’r Gweinidog Iechyd a with the Minister for Health and Social Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i sicrhau bod yr Services to ensure that these claims are being hawliadau hyn yn cael eu prosesu’n gyflym a carried through expeditiously and that the bod y rhwymedigaeth llog y mae’r interest liability that the Government is Llywodraeth yn ei amsugno bob dydd y mae’r
20 21/09/2011 absorbing every day that these claims ceisiadau hyn yn parhau yn cael ei liniaru cyn continue is mitigated as soon as possible? gynted â phosibl?
Jane Hutt: I undertake to discuss this with Jane Hutt: Rwy’n ymrwymo i drafod y the Minister for Health and Social Services. mater hwn gyda’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
Bethan Jenkins: A fedrwch roi gwybodaeth Bethan Jenkins: Can you give us any i ni ynglŷn â’r uned gyflawni? A ydyw’r information about the delivery unit? Does uned honno’n monitro cyllideb y that unit monitor the Government’s budget Llywodraeth a pha rôl y bydd yn ei chwarae and what role will it play in future? yn y dyfodol? Jane Hutt: That is a question for the First Jane Hutt: Mae hynny’n gwestiwn i’r Prif Minister and I am sure that you are all Weinidog ac yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod i gyd yn looking forward to his statement on the edrych ymlaen at ei ddatganiad ar y rhaglen programme for government next week. lywodraethu yr wythnos nesaf.
Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Business, Enterprise, Technology and Gwyddoniaeth Science
9. Ieuan Wyn Jones: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 9. Ieuan Wyn Jones: Will the Minister make ddatganiad am ddyraniad cyffredinol y a statement on the overall budget allocation gyllideb i’r portffolio Busnes, Menter, to the Business, Enterprise, Technology and Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth. Science portfolio. OAQ(4)0028(FIN) OAQ(4)0028(FIN)
Jane Hutt: Mae dyraniad o dros £321 Jane Hutt: Included in the Welsh miliwn wedi’i gynnwys ar gyfer y portffolio Government’s supplementary budget for busnes, menter, technoleg a gwyddoniaeth 2011-12 is an allocation of over £321 million yng nghyllideb atodol Llywodraeth Cymru for the business, enterprise, technology and yn 2011-12. science portfolio.
Ieuan Wyn Jones: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am Ieuan Wyn Jones: I thank the Minister for yr ateb hwnnw. Gwyddom i’r dyraniad that answer. We know that that allocation was hwnnw gael ei wneud mewn cyfnod pan made at a time when we expected economic oeddem yn disgwyl y byddai’r economi’n growth. Alistair Darling said that the United tyfu. Dywedodd Alistair Darling y dylai Kingdom’s economy would grow by 3.5 per economi’r Deyrnas Gyfunol dyfu 3.5 y cant cent this year, but we know now that growth eleni, ond gwyddom y bydd yn tyfu ychydig will be just over 1 per cent. The situation, dros 1 y cant. Mae’r sefyllfa, felly, yn wir therefore, is truly critical. You have referred argyfyngus. Yr ydych wedi cyfeirio heddiw today to the International Monetary Fund at adroddiad y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol report that states that we are facing a very sy’n nodi ein bod yn wynebu cyfnod dangerous period from the point of view of peryglus iawn o safbwynt yr economi’n fyd- the global economy. As the Minister for eang. Gan y bydd cyllideb y Gweinidog business’s budget will be cut by £17 million busnes yn cael ei thorri o £17 miliwn rhwng between now and the end of the hyn a diwedd cyfnod yr adolygiad comprehensive spending review period, and cynhwysfawr o wariant, a chan mai dim ond as the rest of the budget will be cut by only 1 1 y cant sy’n cael ei dorri o weddill y per cent, does the Minister feel, in the wake gyllideb, a yw’r Gweinidog yn teimlo, yn of the serious economic downturn that we are sgîl yr argyfwng economaidd difrifol yr facing, that she should review the Minister for ydym yn ei wynebu, y dylai fod yn ailedrych business’s budget? What discussions has she ar gyllideb y Gweinidog busnes? Pa had with the Minister for business to ensure drafodaethau y mae wedi’u cael gyda’r that she has sufficient resources to face this Gweinidog busnes i sicrhau bod ganddi crisis and to help businesses in Wales?
21 21/09/2011 ddigon o adnoddau i wynebu’r argyfwng hwn ac i helpu busnesau Cymru?
Jane Hutt: This is an area in which we work Jane Hutt: Mae hwn yn faes lle’r ydym yn hand in hand. The whole Cabinet works gweithio law yn llaw. Mae’r Cabinet cyfan together on this to support the Minister for yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd ar hyn i gefnogi’r business and enterprise in particular. This is Gweinidog busnes a menter yn benodol. Mae something that, I am sure, you will see very hyn yn rhywbeth, mae’n siŵr, y byddwch yn clearly as a result of announcements that ei weld yn glir iawn o ganlyniad i’r have been made this week. cyhoeddiadau a wnaethpwyd yr wythnos hon.
Nick Ramsay: The question that was asked Nick Ramsay: Mae’r cwestiwn a ofynnwyd by Eluned Parrott from the Liberal gan Eluned Parrott o’r Democratiaid Democrats regarding enterprise zones is Rhyddfrydol ynghylch parthau menter yn extremely pertinent at this point. The Welsh hynod o berthnasol ar hyn o bryd. Mae Conservatives certainly welcome the recent, Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn sicr yn croesawu’r if belated, announcement that Wales will be cyhoeddiad diweddar, er ei fod yn hwyr, y following suit in establishing the five new bydd Cymru yn dilyn yr esiampl o sefydlu’r enterprise zones over the next five years. pum parth menter newydd dros y pum Will you give some detail on that? There is mlynedd nesaf. A wnewch roi rhywfaint o scant detail at the moment about how these fanylion ar hynny? Manylion prin yn unig enterprise zones will be established. Will you sydd ar gael ar hyn o bryd ynghylch sut y confirm the consequential uplift that the bydd y parthau menter hyn yn cael eu Welsh Government is expecting from the UK sefydlu. A wnewch gadarnhau’r cynnydd Government for the enterprise zones? I think canlyniadol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei that it is around £10 million. Will you also ddisgwyl gan Lywodraeth y DU ar gyfer y confirm whether—depending on the extent of parthau menter? Credaf ei bod tua £10 your plans for enterprise zones—you intend miliwn. A wnewch hefyd gadarnhau—yn to provide any additional funding for the dibynnu ar raddfa eich cynlluniau ar gyfer Minister for business to make the enterprise parthau menter—a ydych yn bwriadu darparu zones even more successful? unrhyw gyllid ychwanegol i’r Gweinidog busnes allu gwneud y parthau menter yn fwy llwyddiannus fyth?
Jane Hutt: The Minister for business and Jane Hutt: Bydd y Gweinidog busnes a enterprise will be answering questions later, menter yn ateb cwestiynau yn ddiweddarach, but I am happy to repeat the points that I ond yr wyf yn ddigon bodlon ailadrodd y have made about backing the Minister at this pwyntiau a wneuthum am gefnogi’r time of economic challenge to Wales. Indeed, Gweinidog yn ystod y cyfnod hwn o her as evidenced by the IMF and leading economaidd i Gymru. Yn wir, fel y economic commentators over the last few dangoswyd gan yr IMF a sylwebyddion weeks, we have a key role to play. We will economaidd blaenllaw dros yr ychydig do everything and use every lever that we can wythnosau diwethaf, mae gennym rôl to support the Minister for business in her allweddol i’w chwarae. Byddwn yn gwneud task as part of that challenge. popeth ac yn defnyddio pob dull posibl y gallwn i gefnogi’r Gweinidog busnes yn ei thasg fel rhan o’r her honno.
Pobl Ddall a Phobl sy’n Rhannol Ddall Blind and Partially Sighted People
10. Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A wnaiff y 10. Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Will the Minister Gweinidog ddatganiad am gefnogaeth make a statement on Welsh Government Llywodraeth Cymru i bobl ddall a phobl sy’n support for the blind and partially sighted. rhannol ddall. OAQ(4)0027(FIN) OAQ(4)0027(FIN)
22 21/09/2011
Jane Hutt: Fy mlaenoriaeth o ran Jane Hutt: My priority for equality for cydraddoldeb i bobl anabl, gan gynnwys disabled people, including those who are pobl ddall neu bobl sy’n rhannol ddall, yw blind or partially sighted, is a barrier-free sicrhau amgylchedd di-rwystr a fyddai’n environment that maximises the opportunities hyrwyddo’r cyfleoedd iddynt gymryd rhan for them to participate in society. mewn cymdeithas.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Weinidog, fe’ch Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Minister, I refer you cyfeiriaf at faes arbennig, sef trafnidiaeth, a’r to a particular field, namely transport, and the gwasanaeth sy’n cael ei gynnig i bobl ddall a service offered to blind and partially sighted rhannol ddall, yn enwedig ar fysiau. Os bydd people, particularly on buses. If anyone with a rhywun sydd â phroblem o ran gweld yn visual impairment travels by train, there is an teithio ar y trên, mae gwasanaeth sain i audio service to tell them which station is ddweud wrthynt pa orsaf sydd nesaf a lle yn next and where exactly they are and to union y maent ac i gyfleu unrhyw rybuddion convey any other warnings. That service is eraill. Nid yw hynny ar gael ar fysiau. Os yw not available on buses. If the Welsh Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i gael Government is committed to an integrated polisi trafnidiaeth integredig i Gymru, onid travel policy for Wales, does it not have a yw’n gyfrifoldeb arni sicrhau bod y responsibility to ensure that such directions cyfarwyddiadau hyn ar gael ar system sain i are available on an audio system for people bobl sydd â nam ar eu llygaid? with a visual impairment?
Jane Hutt: Certainly, this is something that I Jane Hutt: Yn sicr, mae hyn yn rhywbeth yr want to discuss with the Minister with hoffwn ei drafod gyda’r Gweinidog â responsibility for transport. I am looking at chyfrifoldeb dros drafnidiaeth. Yr wyf yn these issues as part of my ministerial edrych ar y materion hyn fel rhan o’m responsibility for equality and I want to cyfrifoldeb gweinidogol dros gydraddoldeb ensure that transport adheres to anti- ac yr wyf am sicrhau bod trafnidiaeth yn discrimination legislation. cadw at y gyfraith gwahaniaethu.
2.15 p.m.
Sandy Mewies: Minister, you may recall the Sandy Mewies: Weinidog, efallai y byddwch Wales vision strategy that was endorsed by yn cofio strategaeth weledigaeth Cymru a the Government in the previous Assembly gafodd ei chymeradwyo gan y Llywodraeth and which I launched last year. It is work yn y Cynulliad blaenorol, ac a lansiais y that is linked with the World Health llynedd. Mae’n waith sy’n cael ei gysylltu â Organization and led by the Royal National Mudiad Iechyd y Byd ac sy’n cael ei arwain Institute of Blind People Cymru. It is an gan Sefydliad Cenedlaethol Brenhinol y exemplar in partnership working and covers Deillion Cymru. Mae’n esiampl o waith the whole gamut and strategy, including the partneriaeth ac mae’n ymdrin â phob agwedd issues mentioned by Rhodri Glyn. Would a’r strategaeth gyfan, gan gynnwys y you agree that it is important that we materion a grybwyllwyd gan Rhodri Glyn. A continue to support the implementation of fyddech yn cytuno ei bod yn bwysig ein bod the action plan in the future? yn parhau i gefnogi’r gwaith o gyflwyno’r cynllun gweithredu yn y dyfodol?
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Jane Hutt: The point that Sandy Mewies Jane Hutt: Mae’r pwynt a wnaeth Sandy made is important, because, as a Welsh Mewies yn bwysig, oherwydd, fel Government, we were pioneering at the start Llywodraeth Cymru, roeddem yn arloesol ar with regard to the development of this y dechrau o ran datblygu’r strategaeth hon. strategy. I intend to ensure that equality is at Rwy’n bwriadu sicrhau bod cydraddoldeb yn the forefront of all budgets. I also welcome cael blaenoriaeth ym mhob cyllideb. Rwyf the publication of the ‘Beyond Vision’ hefyd yn croesawu cyhoeddi’r adroddiad report, which is a joint project between ‘Mwy na Golwg’, sef prosiect ar y cyd rhwng RNIB and Neath Port Talbot College. I am RNIB a Choleg Castell-nedd Port Talbot. sure that Members have seen the report and I Rwyf yn siŵr bod yr Aelodau wedi gweld yr know that the Member for Neath is aware of adroddiad a gwn fod Aelod Castell-nedd yn the project. ymwybodol o’r prosiect.
Mohammad Asghar: Blind and partially Mohammad Asghar: Gall pobl ddall a sighted people in America can plug their rhannol ddall yn America gysylltu eu earphones into one in four cash machines clustffonau ag un o bob pedwar peiriant arian and listen to a voice that guides them parod a gwrando ar lais sy’n eu tywys drwy’r through to the cash transaction. RNIB is trafodiad arian parod. Mae RNIB yn ceisio trying to launch a campaign to bring similar lansio ymgyrch i ddod â chyfleusterau tebyg facilities here. Minister, will you commit to yma. Weinidog, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i support this campaign, given your portfolio gefnogi’r ymgyrch hon, o ystyried eich responsibility linked to equality of cyfrifoldeb portffolio sy’n gysylltiedig â opportunity? There are no such machines in chyfle cyfartal? Nid oes unrhyw beiriannau this part of world. Also, Minister, will you o’r fath i’w cael yn y rhan hon o’r byd. join me in writing to the banks to urge them Hefyd, Weinidog, a ymunwch â mi drwy to consider the need of blind and partially ysgrifennu at y banciau i bwyso arnynt i sighted customers to be served properly ystyried yr angen i gwsmeriaid dall a rhannol here? ddall gael ei gwasanaethu’n iawn yma?
Jane Hutt: That is something that we, across Jane Hutt: Mae hynny’n rhywbeth y gallem this Chamber, could sign up to, given the ni, ar draws y Siambr, ymrwymo iddo, o limited power that we may have over those ystyried y grym cyfyngedig y gallai fod banks, unfortunately. However, we have a gennym dros banciau hynny, yn anffodus. key social responsibility and an ethical point Fodd bynnag, mae gennym gyfrifoldeb to raise with them. cymdeithasol allweddol a phwynt moesegol i’w godi gyda hwy.
Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth Questions to the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science
Labordai Gwyddonaieth Science Laboratories
1. Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Pa drafodaethau y 1. Rhodri Glyn Thomas: What discussions mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u cael gyda has the Minister had with the UK Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch cau labordai Government regarding the closure of science gwyddoniaeth yng Nghymru. laboratories in Wales. OAQ(4)0027(BET) OAQ(4)0027(BET)
The Minister for Business, Enterprise, Y Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Technology and Science (Edwina Hart): I Gwyddoniaeth (Edwina Hart): Nid wyf have had no direct discussions with the UK wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau uniongyrchol Government. â Llywodraeth y DU.
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Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Os felly, Weinidog, Rhodri Glyn Thomas: If that is the case, yr wyf yn eich annog i gael y trafodaethau Minister, I would urge you to have those hynny, oherwydd y mae’r labordai hyn yn discussions, because these laboratories are eithriadol o bwysig. Yr ydym oll yn extremely important. We are all aware of the ymwybodol o’r problemau a all godi, ac yr problems that can arise, and we have, ydym wedi cael profiadau anffodus o hynny unfortunately, had cases of such problems in yng Nghymru gydag iechyd anifeiliaid, er Wales with animal health, for example. enghraifft. Mae’r labordai hyn yn bwysig yn These laboratories are important in that y maes hwnnw. Bydd y labordai yng context. The laboratories in Carmarthen and Nghaerfyrddin ac yn Aberystwyth yn cau, Aberystwyth will close, which will mean that sy’n golygu na fydd gwasanaeth i’w gael yng no provision will be available in Wales. Nghymru. Felly, bydd yn rhaid mynd dros y Therefore, the service will only be available ffin i gael y gwasanaeth hwnnw a bydd oedi, across the border, which will lead to delays, wrth gwrs, yn sgîl hynny wrth i bobl of course, as people wait for a response. I ddisgwyl am ymateb. Byddwn yn falch o roi would be happy to provide the Minister with rhagor o wybodaeth am hyn i’r Gweinidog more information if she so wished. os yw’n dymuno derbyn hynny.
Edwina Hart: I thank Rhodri Glyn Thomas Edwina Hart: Diolchaf i Rhodri Glyn for raising this matter with me. I have made Thomas am godi’r mater hwn gyda mi. Rwyf inquiries with my officials, and, during the wedi gwneud ymholiadau gyda fy purdah period, work started on what they swyddogion, ac, yn ystod y cyfnod purdah, were doing with regard to the budget period dechreuodd gwaith ar yr hyn maent yn ei in April. Officials dealt with those matters at wneud o ran cyfnod y gyllideb ym mis Ebrill. the time, but in light of your comments Ymdriniodd swyddogion â’r materion hynny today, my department and I will now deal ar y pryd, ond yng ngoleuni eich sylwadau with these issues. heddiw, bydd fy adran a minnau nawr yn ymdrin â’r materion hyn.
Andrew R.T. Davies: The relationship with Andrew RT Davies: Mae’r berthynas â the UK Government, in particular with Llywodraeth y DU, yn enwedig mewn regard to enterprise and business, is critically perthynas â menter a busnes, yn hollbwysig. important. Will you outline how your A wnewch chi amlinellu sut y mae eich adran department engages with departments in yn ymgysylltu ag adrannau yn San Steffan? Westminster? Also, will you indicate the Hefyd, a wnewch chi nodi nifer y number of one-to-one meetings that you cyfarfodydd unigol a gawsoch gyda’r have had with the equivalent Minister in Gweinidog cyfatebol yn San Steffan? Westminster?
Edwina Hart: Obviously, I would have to Edwina Hart: Yn amlwg, byddai’n rhaid i consult my diaries about details of meetings. mi ymgynghori â fy nyddiaduron am fanylion Lots of things are done at an official level. y cyfarfodydd. Mae llawer o bethau yn cael We have good relationships at official levels eu gwneud ar lefel swyddogol. Mae gennym in the main. Currently, we are working berthynas dda ar lefelau swyddogol ar y particularly hard with the Ministry of cyfan. Ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn gweithio’n Defence about St Athan’s position. arbennig o galed gyda’r Weinyddiaeth Amddiffyn ynghylch sefyllfa Sain Tathan.
Band Eang Broadband
2. Gwyn R. Price: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 2. Gwyn R. Price: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am fynediad i fand eang yn statement on access to broadband in Islwyn. Islwyn. OAQ(4)0031(BET) OAQ(4)0031(BET)
25 21/09/2011
Edwina Hart: Thank you for that question. Edwina Hart: Diolch ichi am y cwestiwn. High-speed broadband access will be Bydd mynediad at fand eang cyflym ar gael available in parts of Islwyn by the end of mewn rhannau o Islwyn erbyn diwedd mis December. Any areas of Islwyn that will not Rhagfyr. Bydd unrhyw ardaloedd yn Islwyn be addressed by the market will benefit from na fydd yn cael gwasanaeth gan y farchnad our next generation broadband for Wales yn elwa ar ein prosiect band eang y project. The broadband support scheme genhedlaeth nesaf i Gymru. Mae’r cynllun provides an immediate remedy for anyone cymorth band eang yn cynnig datrysiad ar who does not have sufficient broadband. unwaith i unrhyw un nad oes ganddo ddarpariaeth band eang digonol.
Gwyn R. Price: Thank you for that answer, Gwyn R. Price: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Minister. I read your recent statement Weinidog. Darllenais eich datganiad regarding the Welsh Government’s diweddar am ymrwymiad Llywodraeth commitment to deliver broadband to all Cymru i ddarparu band eang i bob cartref a households and businesses by 2015 through busnes erbyn 2015 drwy brosiect band eang y the next generation broadband for Wales. genhedlaeth nesaf i Gymru. Weinidog, pan Minister, when you are looking at priorities, fyddwch yn edrych ar flaenoriaethau, a will you give an assurance that areas such as wnewch chi sicrhau y bydd ardaloedd fel Islwyn, which has been so damaged in the Islwyn, sydd wedi dioddef cymaint yn y past by the ignorance of Governments of a gorffennol oherwydd anwybodaeth different shade to our own, will be fully Llywodraethau o liw gwahanol i’n un ni, yn considered for early roll out? cael eu hystyried yn llawn ar gyfer cyflwyniad cynnar y gwasanaeth?
Edwina Hart: The roll-out schedule is Edwina Hart: Mae’r amserlen gyflwyno yn currently being negotiated with bidders, and cael ei drafod ar hyn o bryd gyda chynigwyr, I will publish this following the contract a byddaf yn cyhoeddi hwn yn dilyn y award. The roll out will include all areas that dyfarniad contract. Bydd y broses gyflwyno the market has failed to address. The yn gynnwys yr holl ardaloedd y mae’r Blackwood exchange will be upgraded to farchnad wedi methu mynd i’r afael â nhw. receive BT superfast broadband service by Bydd cyfnewidfa’r Coed Duon yn cael ei the end of this year. uwchraddio i dderbyn gwasanaeth band eang cyflym iawn BT erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn hon.
William Graham: Minister, you will know William Graham: Weinidog, byddwch yn that many constituents in Islwyn and the gwybod bod llawer o etholwyr yn Islwyn a Caerphilly borough welcomed the decision bwrdeistref Caerffili wedi croesawu by Virgin Media to trial ultrafast broadband penderfyniad Virgin Media i dreialu band delivered over existing electricity poles in eang tra chyflym drwy bolion trydan Crumlin, starting from last August. presennol yng Nghrymlyn, gan ddechrau fis However, despite the encouraging nature of Awst diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, er bod y this particular scheme, businesses in cynllun penodol hwn yn galonogol, mae Caerphilly highlight that slow broadband still busnesau yng Nghaerffili yn amlygu’r ffaith exists. Bearing in mind the importance that bod band eang araf yn dal i fodoli. O gofio pa you have attached to fast and reliable mor bwysig yr ydych yn ystyried band eang broadband for businesses, will you agree to cyflym a dibynadwy i fusnesau, a gytunwch i examine the effectiveness of the scheme, and archwilio effeithiolrwydd y cynllun, a work with broadband providers and local gweithio gyda darparwyr band eang ac authorities to examine the potential of awdurdodau lleol i archwilio’r potensial i enabling similar schemes to be rolled out in alluogi cyflwyno cynlluniau tebyg mewn areas where broadband is not currently ardaloedd lle nad yw band eang ar gael ar available, or is exceedingly slow? hyn o bryd, neu lle mae’n eithriadol o araf?
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Edwina Hart: I will be pleased to take up Edwina Hart: Byddaf yn falch o fynd i’r the issues raised by the Member on this. I afael â’r materion a godwyd gan yr Aelod ar will ask officials to look at these issues and hyn. Byddaf yn gofyn i swyddogion edrych report back, not only to William Graham but ar y materion hyn ac adrodd yn ôl, nid i to all Members. William Graham yn unig, ond i’r holl Aelodau.
Jenny Rathbone: Could the Minister shed Jenny Rathbone: A allai’r Gweinidog daflu any light on why the Pen-y-lan not spot, unrhyw oleuni ar pam nad yw’r man gwan which is only four or five miles from the ym Mhen-y-lan, sydd ond bedwar neu bum Millennium Stadium, has not been— milltir o Stadiwm y Mileniwm, wedi—
The Presiding Officer: Order. We are Y Llywydd: Trefn. Rydym yn siarad am talking about Islwyn, not Pen-y-lan. Islwyn, nid Pen-y-lan.
Jenny Rathbone: I am talking about a not Jenny Rathbone: Rwyf yn siarad am fan spot in another place. gwan mewn lle arall.
The Presiding Officer: The question was Y Llywydd: Roedd y cwestiwn am fand about broadband in Islwyn. eang yn Islwyn.
Twf Economaidd Economic Growth
3. Angela Burns: Pa drafodaethau y mae’r 3. Angela Burns: What recent discussions Gweinidog wedi’u cynnal yn ddiweddar gyda has the Minister held with the Minister for Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Environment and Sustainable Development Cynaliadwy ynghylch effaith cynllunio ar regarding the impact of planning on dwf economaidd. OAQ(4)0038(BET) economic growth. OAQ(4)0038(BET)
Edwina Hart: I discuss a range of issues Edwina Hart: Rwyf yn trafod ystod o that impact upon business with my Cabinet faterion sy’n effeithio ar fusnes gyda fy colleagues, including planning. An effective nghydweithwyr yn y Cabinet, gan gynnwys and balanced approach to planning is critical cynllunio. Mae dull gweithredu effeithiol a to our overall approach to supporting better chytbwys ar gynllunio yn hanfodol i’n dull economic conditions. This is reflected in the cyffredinol o gefnogi gwell amodau written statement on planning for sustainable economaidd. Caiff hyn ei adlewyrchu yn y economic renewal, published in June. datganiad ysgrifenedig ar gynllunio ar gyfer adnewyddu economaidd cynaliadwy, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mehefin.
Angela Burns: Thank you for that answer, Angela Burns: Diolch ichi am yr ateb Minister. Many councils are currently hwnnw, Weinidog. Ar hyn o bryd, mae putting together their local deposit plans, or llawer o gynghorau yn llunio eu cynlluniau have almost finished doing so, and they are blaendal lleol, neu bron wedi gorffen gwneud relying upon the identification of large sites hynny, ac maent yn dibynnu ar nodi for house building that will only appeal to safleoedd mawr ar gyfer adeiladu tai a fydd large builders, who are usually based outside yn apelio i adeiladwyr mawr, sydd fel arfer this country. This policy shuts out the wedi’u lleoli y tu allan i’r wlad hon. Mae’r smaller local developer and those who polisi hwn yn eithrio’r datblygwr lleol llai a’r undertake self-build. Opening more rheiny sy’n adeiladu eu tai eu hunain. Byddai opportunities for small-scale developments agor mwy o gyfleoedd ar gyfer datblygiadau would not only help to meet our housing ar raddfa fach nid yn unig yn helpu i fodloni need but would also provide more jobs on a ein anghenion tai, ond byddai hefyd yn far more local basis. It would also indirectly darparu mwy o swyddi ar sail llawer mwy benefit other people, such as those who lleol. Byddai hefyd, yn anuniongyrchol, o
27 21/09/2011 supply building materials. Smaller plots are fudd i bobl eraill, fel y rhai sy’n cyflenwi also far more likely to be developed at the deunyddiau adeiladu. Hefyd, mae lleiniau llai moment. Will the Minister take that forward, yn llawer mwy tebygol o gael eu datblygu ar as it has a real economic benefit to Wales hyn o bryd. A wnaiff y Gweinidog fwrw overall? Will you take that forward with the ymlaen â hynny, gan y byddai Cymru’n elwa Minister responsible for planning to see how wirioneddol yn economaidd ohono? A he might change the local deposit plans to wnewch chi fwrw ymlaen â hynny gyda’r support this? Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am gynllunio i weld sut y gallai newid y cynlluniau blaendal lleol i gefnogi hyn?
Edwina Hart: These points have been made Edwina Hart: Mae’r pwyntiau hyn wedi to me during my visits across Wales, and rhoi i mi yn ystod fy ymweliadau ledled they are points that I have discussed with the Cymru, ac maent yn bwyntiau yr wyf wedi’u Minister for Housing, Regeneration and trafod gyda’r Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a Heritage about the keenness to develop Threftadaeth am yr awydd i ddatblygu smaller sites. It is also something that I know safleoedd llai. Mae hefyd yn rhywbeth y gwn that John Griffiths is aware of, as we have fod John Griffiths yn ymwybodol ohono, gan had detailed discussions between the three of fod y tri ohonom wedi cael trafodaethau us about housing being an economic driver, manwl ar y ffaith fod tai yn sbardun and also about the need for affordable economaidd, a hefyd am yr angen am dai homes, particularly in rural areas and other fforddiadwy, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd places. We need to look at the context of gwledig a mannau eraill. Mae angen inni planning and how we keep local companies edrych ar y cyd-destun cynllunio a sut yr engaged in the development of those ydym yn cadw cwmnïau lleol sy’n ymwneud projects. â datblygu prosiectau hynny.
Kenneth Skates: Minister, I express my Kenneth Skates: Weinidog, yr wyf yn support for the National Trust’s campaign mynegi fy nghefnogaeth i ymgyrch yr against the UK Government’s plans to Ymddiriedolaeth Genedlaethol yn erbyn subvert the English planning system into a cynlluniau Llywodraeth y DU i wyrdroi’r purely economic tool, with scant regard for system gynllunio yn Lloegr yn offeryn the green belt or the wider countryside. We economaidd yn unig, gyda fawr ddim need a more balanced approach in Wales ystyriaeth i’r llain las neu gefn gwlad yn between protecting the countryside and ehangach. Mae arnom angen dull mwy boosting growth in the construction sector. I cytbwys yng Nghymru wrth ddiogelu cefn fear that there could be an exodus of house gwlad a hybu twf yn y sector adeiladu. Rwyf builders from Wales if there is a free-for-all yn ofni y gallai llawer iawn o adeiladwyr tai approach to planning adopted in England. In droi eu cefnau ar Gymru os caiff dull your discussions with Ministers at a UK cynllunio agored i bawb ei fabwysiadu yn level, will you ensure that you place a Lloegr. Yn eich trafodaethau gyda premium on the need to protect our Gweinidogion ar lefel y DU, a wnewch chi countryside and construction sector? sicrhau eich bod yn pwysleisio’r angen i ddiogelu ein cefn gwlad a’r sector adeiladu?
Edwina Hart: I take my responsibilities, as Edwina Hart: Rwyf i, fel y mae’r does the Government, regarding Llywodraeth, yn cymryd fy nghyfrifoldebau environmental sustainability seriously. It is o ran cynaliadwyedd amgylcheddol o ddifrif. clear that economic prosperity and growth do Mae’n amlwg nad oes rhaid aberthu ffyniant not have to be sacrificed for the a thwf economaidd er mwyn yr amgylchedd; environment; we know that there is rydym yn gwybod bod yna botensial economic potential in a greener society. My economaidd mewn cymdeithas wyrddach. colleague John Griffiths will bring forward a Bydd fy nghydweithiwr John Griffiths yn planning Bill that will give Members an cyflwyno Bil cynllunio a fydd yn rhoi cyfle i opportunity to discuss their views on these Aelodau drafod, mewn manylder, eu barn ar
28 21/09/2011 particular issues in detail. y materion penodol.
Yr Arglwydd Elis-Thomas: Yn dilyn ei Lord Elis-Thomas: Following her hymweliad llwyddiannus â chanolfan successful visit to the Trawsfynydd dadgomisynu Trawsfynydd yn ddiweddar, a decommissioning centre recently, has the yw’r Gweinidog wedi cael cyfle i ystyried Minister had an opportunity to consider the agweddau cynllunio ac economaidd dyfodol planning and economic aspects of the future y safle hwnnw, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni ei of that site, particularly in light of her datganiad ddoe ynglŷn â safleoedd yn statement yesterday about energy ymwneud â datblygiad ynni o safbwynt development sites from the point of view of parthau menter? enterprise zones?
Edwina Hart: I was particularly impressed Edwina Hart: Cefais fy mhlesio’n fawr when I visited the site with you, Lord Elis- gyda’r ymweliad â’r safle gyda chi, yr Thomas, as the local Member, to see the Arglwydd Elis-Thomas, fel yr Aelod lleol, i commitment of individuals in that area to try weld ymrwymiad unigolion yn yr ardal to bring in jobs. They were particularly honno i geisio dod â swyddi i’r ardal. concerned that there would be a role for the Roeddent yn arbennig o bryderus y byddai national park in terms of planning. As it was gan y parc cenedlaethol rôl yn nhermau a brownfield site, they were concerned that it cynllunio. Gan ei fod yn safle tir llwyd, should continue to be used. There were all roeddynt yn poeni y dylid parhau i’w sorts of issues such as education, housing, ddefnyddio. Roedd pob math o faterion yn health and the local economy. I have had codi, fel addysg, tai, iechyd a’r economi leol. further discussions with Gwynedd Council Rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau pellach gyda about the possibility of looking at that as a Chyngor Gwynedd am y posibilrwydd o specialist enterprise zone, and those edrych ar hynny fel ardal fenter arbenigol, ac discussions continue. mae’r trafodaethau hynny’n parhau.
Eluned Parrott: Wales’s success in Eluned Parrott: Mae llwyddiant Cymru attracting inward investment in the past has wrth ddenu buddsoddiad o’r tu allan yn y been eclipsed in recent times by our failure gorffennol wedi cael ei drechu yn ddiweddar to retain companies here. At the Welsh gan ein methiant i gadw cwmnïau yma. Yng Affairs Committee meeting last week, we nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig yr heard Admiral Group plc make a strong case wythnos diwethaf, clywsom Admiral Group for targeting 20 Admirals rather than one plc yn dadlau’n gryf dros dargedu 20 LG. Will the Minister follow that advice? Admiral yn hytrach nag un LG. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddilyn y cyngor hwnnw?
Edwina Hart: I am currently looking at all Edwina Hart: Rwyf ar hyn o bryd yn edrych issues on inward investment and how we ar bob agwedd ar fewnfuddsoddi a sut yr prioritise it in my department. Wales must ydym yn ei flaenoriaethu ei yn fy adran. give a clear message that we are open for Rhaid i Gymru roi neges glir ein bod yn business in terms of inward investment. We agored i fusnes o ran mewnfuddsoddi. Rhaid must look at our departmental structures, i ni edrych ar ein strwythurau adrannol, sut how we use trade delegations, how we make rydym yn defnyddio dirprwyaethau masnach, contact with companies and how we deal sut yr ydym yn cysylltu â chwmnïau a sut yr with these issues. Work is currently going on ydym yn delio â’r materion hyn. Ar hyn o in my department, and I am sure that I will bryd, mae gwaith yn mynd rhagddo yn fy report to you in due course. I think that that adran, ac rwyf yn siŵr y byddaf yn adrodd i will answer some of the comments made in chi maes o law. Rwyf yn meddwl y bydd another place by another committee. hynny’n ateb rhai o’r sylwadau a wnaed rhywle arall gan bwyllgor arall.
Eluned Parrott: That is very helpful. One Eluned Parrott: Mae hynny’n ddefnyddiol other thing that we heard in the committee iawn. Un peth arall a glywsom yn y pwyllgor
29 21/09/2011 was that there was a perception among oedd bod yna ganfyddiad ymhlith busnesau businesses that constant changes in policy bod newidiadau cyson yn y cyfeiriad polisi direction were unsettling for the business yn ansefydlogi’r sector busnes ac yn sector and a disincentive to work in Wales. anghymhelliad i weithio yng Nghymru. We recognise that it takes time for you to be Rydym yn cydnabod ei fod yn cymryd amser able to build on the work that the One Wales i chi allu adeiladu ar y gwaith y dechreuodd Government put together, but when can we Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un, ond pryd y gallwn expect to see signs of that delivery plan in ddisgwyl gweld arwyddion fod cynllun action? cyflenwi ar waith?
Edwina Hart: When I have been out and Edwina Hart: Wrth fynd o gwmpas Cymru, about in Wales, I have had tremendous rwyf wedi cael cefnogaeth wych gan support from business about our direction of fusnesau i’n gwaith fel Llywodraeth. Mae travel as a Government. We have had cefnogaeth anhygoel i’n newyddion ar tremendous support for our news on barthau menter. Rwyf wedi clywed enterprise zones. I have heard praise for the canmoliaeth am y pecynnau hyfforddi sydd training packages that are available for ar gael ar gyfer diwydiant. Mae’r sector industry. Business recognises that we are in fusnes yn cydnabod ein bod mewn cyfnod difficult times. When we set down previous anodd. Pan amlinellwyd polisi gennym yn y policy, the economy was not the same as it is gorffennol, nid oedd yr economi yr un fath ag now—the economy changes from day to day. y mae nawr—mae’r economi’n newid o We must remember that we are a small ddydd i ddydd. Rhaid inni gofio mai cenedl nation on the western edge of Europe with fechan ar gyrion gorllewinol Ewrop ydym, few levers. If the UK Government, the Greek gyda dim ond ychydig o ysgogiadau. Os na Government and the United States all Llywodraeth y DU, Llywodraeth Gwlad Government cannot get things right quickly, Groeg na Llywodraeth y Unol Daleithiau I think that I deserve some time to ensure gael pethau’n iawn yn gyflym, rwy’n credu that our policies are fit for purpose. fy mod yn haeddu rhywfaint o amser i sicrhau bod ein polisïau yn addas i’r diben.
Gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru Welsh Manufacturing
4. Mark Isherwood: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 4. Mark Isherwood: Will the Minister outline amlinellu’r gefnogaeth y mae Llywodraeth what support the Welsh Government is giving Cymru yn ei rhoi i weithgynhyrchu yng to Welsh manufacturing. OAQ(4)0025(BET) Nghymru. OAQ(4)0025(BET)
Edwina Hart: We are continuing to support Edwina Hart: Rydym yn parhau i gefnogi manufacturing companies in Wales through cwmnïau gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru the Welsh Government’s key sectors drwy ddull sectorau allweddol Llywodraeth approach. Cymru.
Mark Isherwood: Your announcement on Mark Isherwood: Mae eich cyhoeddiad ar enterprise zones included Deeside as an ardaloedd menter yn cynnwys Glannau advanced manufacturing zone, and you are Dyfrdwy fel ardal gweithgynhyrchu uwch, ac aware of and have been engaged with the rydych yn ymwybodol o ac wedi bod yn submission from Flintshire County Council ymwneud â chyflwyniad gan Gyngor Sir y containing its proposals for the enterprise Fflint sy’n cynnwys ei gynigion ar gyfer y zone. What dialogue have you had or will parth menter. Pa ddeialog yr ydych wedi’i you and your officials have with the council gael neu y byddwch chi a’ch swyddogion yn to marry the proposals that you have in mind ei gael gyda’r cyngor i gyfuno’r cynigion with those that it has submitted to you in its sydd gennych mewn golwg gyda’r rhai y mae worked-up report? wedi ei gyflwyno i chi yn ei adroddiad?
30 21/09/2011
Edwina Hart: Thank you for that thoughtful Edwina Hart: Diolch ichi am y cwestiwn question. I very much welcomed Councillor meddylgar. Croesewais yn fawr groeso Matt Wright’s warm welcome for what we cynnes y Cynghorydd Matt Wright am yr hyn did: a wnaethom:
‘It’s fantastic news—not just for Flintshire, Mae’n newyddion gwych—nid ar gyfer Sir y but for north east Wales.’ Fflint yn unig, ond ar gyfer gogledd ddwyrain Cymru.
We have taken a thoughtful approach and we Rydym wedi cymryd ymagwedd ystyriol a will discuss issues with our partners. Hence, byddwn yn trafod y materion gyda’n there may be a time lapse on the detail, partneriaid. Felly, efallai y bydd treigl amser because we want to ensure that we have got ar y manylion, oherwydd yr ydym yn it right with our partners in terms of what we awyddus i sicrhau ein bod wedi gwneud can do in that area. pethau’n iawn gyda’n partneriaid o ran yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud yn y maes hwnnw.
Julie James: I welcome the Government’s Julie James: Croesawaf ymagwedd sectoral approach to boosting Welsh sectoraidd y Llywodraeth i roi hwb i manufacturing and our economy with the weithgynhyrchu Cymru a’n heconomi drwy establishment of the five enterprise zones in sefydlu’r pum ardal menter yn y cyfnod the first phase. As you know, Minister, cyntaf. Fel y gwyddoch, Weinidog, mae Swansea University in my constituency is a Prifysgol Abertawe yn fy etholaeth i yn centre of excellence in biotechnology and ganolfan ragoriaeth mewn biotechnoleg a nanotechnology. Those sectors are predicted nanotechnoleg. Rhagwelir y bydd y to be significant global growth industries and diwydiannau hynny’n ddiwydiannau twf byd- important for the future of our manufacturing eang arwyddocaol ac yn bwysig ar gyfer and knowledge economy. Will you consider dyfodol ein economi gweithgynhyrchu a’n establishing an enterprise zone in Swansea, heconomi wybodaeth. A wnewch chi ystyried focusing on biotechnology, nanotechnology sefydlu parth fenter yn Abertawe, fydd yn and advanced engineering sectors during canolbwyntio ar fiotechnoleg, nanotechnoleg your deliberations on enterprise zones in a sectorau peirianneg uwch, yn ystod eich Wales? trafodaethau ar ardaloedd menter yng Nghymru?
Edwina Hart: I will, of course, consider any Edwina Hart: Byddaf, wrth gwrs, yn approaches that are made to me about further ystyried unrhyw awgrymiadau a gynigir i mi enterprise zones from any of our partners. gan unrhyw un o’n partneriaid ar barthau menter pellach.
2.30 p.m.
Alun Ffred Jones: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am Alun Ffred Jones: I thank the Minister for ymweld â Pharc Menai a Connect Hygiene visiting Parc Menai and Connect Hygiene in yn etholaeth Arfon yn ddiweddar. A yw’n the Arfon constituency recently. Does she derbyn bod ffatrïoedd bach fel Connect accept that small plants such as Connect Hygiene yn hollbwysig i gynnal cyflogaeth Hygiene are crucial to maintaining mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ac a all roi employment in rural areas, and can she give sicrwydd y bydd swyddogion ei hadran yn an assurance that officials in her department gweithio gyda’r cwmni i geisio sicrhau ei will work with the company to try to ensure ddyfodol? its future?
Edwina Hart: During my visit, I was very Edwina Hart: Yn ystod fy ymweliad, cafodd impressed by the company and by the y cwmni ac ymroddiad gweithwyr a rheolwyr dedication of employees and the sydd yn cadw cyflogaeth i fynd o fewn yr
31 21/09/2011 management who are keeping employment ardal benodol honno gryn argraff arnaf. Bydd going within that particular area. My fy swyddogion yn ymgysylltu gyda’r cwmni officials will be engaging with the company dan sylw i weld pa help a chymorth y gallwn concerned to see what help and assistance we roi yn y cyfnod anodd hwn. can give in this difficult period.
David Rees: I also welcome the news about David Rees: Croesawaf hefyd y newyddion the enterprise zones and, like my colleague ynglŷn â’r parthau menter ac, fel fy nghyd- from Swansea West, I also hope to have Aelod o Orllewin Abertawe, gobeithiaf hefyd discussions with you about enterprise zones cael trafodaethau gyda chi am barthau menter further west than St Athan. However, in the ymhellach i’r gorllewin na Sain Tathan. Fodd meantime, can you give me some bynnag, yn y cyfamser, a allwch chi roi information about what support will be gwybodaeth imi ynghylch pa gymorth a provided to manufacturing in areas outside roddir i weithgynhyrchu mewn ardaloedd y of the enterprise zones? tu allan i parthau menter?
Edwina Hart: We very much have to be Edwina Hart: Mae’n rhaid inni fod yn fleet of foot these days. We might have a chwim iawn ein troed y dyddiau hyn. Efallai policy agenda and rules and regulations fod gennym agenda bolisi a rheolau a written down, but, as we look at what is rheoliadau wedi’u hysgrifennu i lawr, ond, happening in the economy, we will wrth inni edrych ar beth sy’n digwydd yn yr sometimes have to consider what companies economi, weithiau, bydd yn rhaid inni require on an individual basis in terms of ystyried beth sydd angen ar gwmnïau unigol support and be a lot more flexible. That is o ran cymorth a bod yn llawer mwy hyblyg. what I am currently looking at with my new Dyna beth yr wyf ar hyn o bryd yn ystyried director in the department. gyda ‘m cyfarwyddwr newydd yn yr adran.
Peter Black: I very much welcome your Peter Black: Croesawaf yn fawr iawn eich assertion to Julie James that you are open to honiad i Julie James eich bod yn agored i further discussion about enterprise zones and drafodaeth bellach am barthau menter ac y that you will look at the Swansea area. Given byddwch yn edrych ar ardal Abertawe. O the importance of the bio-engineering and gofio pwysigrwydd y gwaith bio-peirianneg a life sciences work at Swansea University, gwyddorau bywyd ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe, why was Swansea not considered for the first pam na ystyriwyd Abertawe ar gyfer y gyfran tranche of enterprise zones, and why do we gyntaf o barthau menter, a pham nad oes not have any enterprise zones in the west of gennym unrhyw barthau menter yng Wales? ngorllewin Cymru?
Edwina Hart: As I have indicated, this was Edwina Hart: Fel y nodais, cyhoeddiad cam a first-stage announcement. We have already cyntaf oedd hwn. Yr ydym eisoes wedi cael had considerable discussion and approaches cryn drafodaeth a chynigion o ardaloedd from other areas. I already had a view about eraill. Yr oedd eisoes gennyf farn am leoedd such places as St Athan—it is self-evident megis Sain Tathan—mae’n amlwg ei bod yn that it is an excellent site—but the door is safle rhagorol—ond mae’r drws ar agor i hyn open to all of this. i gyd.
Blaenoriaethau Priorities
5. William Powell: Beth yw blaenoriaethau’r 5. William Powell: What are the Minister’s Gweinidog ar gyfer twristiaeth yng priorities for tourism in Mid and West Wales. Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. OAQ(4)0035(BET) OAQ(4)0035(BET)
Edwina Hart: My priorities for tourism in Edwina Hart: Mae fy mlaenoriaethau ar Mid and West Wales are, as they are for the gyfer twristiaeth yng Nghanolbarth a
32 21/09/2011 whole of Wales, to help drive up the quality Gorllewin Cymru, fel y maent ar gyfer Cymru of our visitor accommodation, amenities and gyfan, i helpu i godi ansawdd ein llety, attractions and to encourage more visitors to amwynderau ac atyniadau i ymwelwyr ac i holiday in Wales. annog mwy o ymwelwyr i Gymru ar wyliau.
William Powell: Thank you very much for William Powell: Diolch yn fawr am yr ateb that answer, Minister. A key development in hwnnw, Weinidog. Datblygiad allweddol yn y the tourism industry is the increase in last- diwydiant twristiaeth yw’r cynnydd mewn minute bookings. What specific support can archebion munud olaf. Pa gymorth penodol y the Welsh Government offer in the area of gall Lywodraeth Cymru ei gynnig yn y maes digital marketing and social media, which is marchnata digidol a chyfryngau cymdeithasol, so important to the development of the sydd mor bwysig i ddatblygiad y diwydiant industry in Wales? yng Nghymru?
Edwina Hart: My officials are exploring Edwina Hart: Mae fy swyddogion yn this and we have started to do a considerable ystyried hyn ac yr ydym wedi dechrau amount of work in this area. I agree with you gwneud cryn dipyn o waith yn y maes hwn. that the late bookings market is very Cytunaf â chi bod y farchnad archebion hwyr interesting, because people change their yn ddiddorol iawn, gan fod pobl yn newid eu minds about where to go. On the wider issue meddwl am ble i fynd. Ar y mater ehangach o of tourism, we must be slicker in terms of dwristiaeth, mae’n rhaid inni fod yn fwy slic bookings, so that when people book they can o ran archebion, fel y gall bobl weld beth see what is available out there, where they sydd ar gael yno, i le y gallent fynd a beth y could go and what they could do. This is an gallent ei wneud pan maent yn archebu. Mae area that is on the agenda for further hwn yn faes sydd ar yr agenda i’w hystyried consideration. ymhellach.
Joyce Watson: First, I would like to thank Joyce Watson: Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch i’r the Minister for setting up the microbusiness Gweinidog am sefydlu’r grŵp gorchwyl a task and finish group. Over the summer, I gorffen ar ficrofusnesau. Dros yr haf, talked to the owners and staff of many small siaradais â pherchnogion a staff llawer o tourism businesses and heard as many views fusnesau twristiaeth bach ac wedi clywed on how it might be supported and tweaked cymaint o safbwyntiau ar sut gallai eu cefnogi and targeted. I trust that the new group will a’u haddasu a thargedu. Hyderaf y bydd y listen carefully to the collective voice of the grŵp newydd yn gwrando’n ofalus ar lais tourism industry as it goes about gathering cynulliadol y diwydiant twristiaeth wrth iddo evidence over the next few months. One fynd ati i gasglu tystiolaeth dros yr ychydig issue that microbusinesses raised with me fisoedd nesaf. Un mater a godwyd gennyf i was procurement. Can I have assurances, gan ficrofusnesau oedd caffael. A allaf gael Minister, that the new group will look to the sicrwydd, Weinidog, y bydd y grŵp newydd small traders and tourism organisation yn edrych i fasnachwyr bach ac aelodau’r members for information? sefydliad twristiaeth am wybodaeth?
Edwina Hart: I think all Members will Edwina Hart: Credaf y bydd pob Aelod yn agree, when they look at the composition of cytuno, pan fyddant yn edrych ar the group, that it is an excellent group that gyfansoddiad y grŵp, ei fod yn grŵp will be well chaired, and I am sure that it will ardderchog a gaiff ei gadeirio’n dda, ac yr consider all aspects surrounding wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn ystyried pob agwedd microbusiness strategy and what support sy’n ymwneud â strategaeth microfusnesau a small businesses require. pha gefnogaeth sydd angen ar fusnesau bach.
Russell George: Minister, I met the Mid Russell George: Weinidog, cyfarfûm â Wales Tourism Partnership during the Phartneriaeth Twristiaeth Canolbarth Cymru summer recess and it was very concerned yn ystod toriad yr haf ac yr oedd yn bryderus that tourism in the region was down on iawn bod twristiaeth yn y rhanbarth i lawr ar
33 21/09/2011 previous years, which was having a major y blynyddoedd blaenorol, a oedd yn cael impact on business and the hospitality and effaith fawr ar fusnesau a’r sector lletygarwch leisure sector. A key issue raised was the a hamdden. Mater allweddol a godwyd oedd y congestion in and around Newtown, which tagfeydd o fewn ac o amgylch y Drenewydd, was having serious repercussions in the a oedd yn cael ôl-effeithiau difrifol ar yr impact on the tourists visiting the area, in effaith ar y twristiaid a oedd yn ymweld â’r them either being fed up of waiting in queues ardal, a oedd naill ai’n cael llond bol o aros or avoiding the area completely. I have mewn ciwiau neu’n osgoi’r ardal yn gyfan written to your colleague the Minister for gwbl. Yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu at eich cyd- Local Government and Communities about Aelod y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a this, and I know that he believes that Chymunedau ynglŷn â hyn, a gwn ei fod yn Government intervention, with the credu bod ymyrraeth gan y Llywodraeth a installation of a new traffic management gosod system rheoli traffig newydd, wedi system, has worked. However, that is not the gweithio. Fodd bynnag, nid dyna farn y view of the tourism partnership or of many bartneriaeth twristiaeth na llawer o bobl eraill. others. Minister, will you raise that point Weinidog, a wnewch chi godi’r pwynt with your colleague again and see whether a hwnnw gyda’ch cyd-Aelod eto a gweld p’un a joined-up solution can be found, and would gellir dod o hyd i ateb cydgysylltiedig, ac a you be prepared to meet local businesses fyddech yn barod i gwrdd â busnesau lleol with me so that they can make their concerns gyda mi fel y gallant wneud eu pryderon yn known to you? hysbys i chi?
Edwina Hart: I am more than happy to Edwina Hart: Yr wyf yn fwy na bodlon i accede to your request for a meeting and I gytuno â’ch cais am gyfarfod a byddaf yn will discuss the issue with my colleague, the trafod y mater gyda fy nghyd-Aelod, y Minister with responsibility for transport. Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros drafnidiaeth.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Weinidog, byddwch Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Minister, you will be yn ymwybodol bod nifer o gyrchfannau aware that there are a number of eithriadol o bwysig o ran twristiaeth yn exceptionally important tourism destinations etholaeth Dwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr, ac in the Carmarthen East and Dinefwr yn arbennig yn nyffryn Tywi, a bod y constituency, particularly in the Towy valley, cyrchfannau hyn yn denu degau o filoedd o and that these destinations attract tens of ymwelwyr bob blwyddyn. Yr wyf yn siŵr y thousands of visitors each year. I am sure that byddwch yn cytuno eu bod yn eithriadol o you would agree that they are exceptionally bwysig ac yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch yn important and I hope that you would agree cytuno bod potensial i ddatblygu that there is the potential to develop other cyrchfannau eraill yn nyffryn Tywi. Fodd destinations in the Towy valley. However, bynnag, mae’r heol sy’n mynd drwy the road going through Llandeilo causes Landeilo yn achosi problemau mewn problems in relation to traffic and air perthynas â thrafnidiaeth a llygredd i’r awyr. pollution. Will you discuss the importance of A wnewch chi drafod pwysigrwydd yr heol that road with the Minister with arbennig honno â’r Gweinidog sydd â responsibility for transport and ask when the chyfrifoldeb dros drafnidiaeth a gofyn pryd y Llandeilo bypass could be developed? gellir datblygu’r ffordd osgoi ar gyfer Llandeilo?
Edwina Hart: I am not aware that I have Edwina Hart: Nid wyf yn ymwybodol fy received any correspondence, as the Minister mod wedi derbyn unrhyw ohebiaeth, fel y with responsibility for tourism, that relates to Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am dwristiaeth, sy’n the points raised, but my ministerial berthnasol i’r pwyntiau a godwyd, ond mae colleague is in the Chamber and I am sure fy nghyd-Weinidog yn y Siambr ac yr wyf yn that he will pick up those points. siŵr y bydd yn codi’r pwyntiau hynny.
Gweithgynhyrchu Manufacturing
34 21/09/2011
6. Lynne Neagle: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 6. Lynne Neagle: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am y gefnogaeth sydd ar gael i statement on support available for weithgynhyrchu yn Nhor-faen. manufacturing in Torfaen. OAQ(4)0033(BET) OAQ(4)0033(BET)
Edwina Hart: I refer you to my answer to Edwina Hart: Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at fy ateb i question 4 from Mark Isherwood. gwestiwn 4 gan Mark Isherwood.
Lynne Neagle: Minister, as you will know, Lynne Neagle: Weinidog, fel y byddwch yn Isotemp Ductwork, a long-standing company gwybod, fe wnaeth Isotemp Ductwork, in my constituency, went into liquidation cwmni hirsefydlog yn fy etholaeth i, earlier this month after more than 35 years’ ddiddymu yn gynharach y mis hwn ar ôl trading in Cwmbran. Despite the challenges mwy na 35 mlynedd o fasnachu yng that the company had faced, it had orders on Nghwmbrân. Er gwaethaf yr heriau y its books and was pulling out all the stops to gwnaeth y cwmni eu hwynebu, roedd try to secure the long-term future of the archebion ar ei lyfrau ac yr oedd yn rhoi pob business. Unfortunately, the refusal of Her gewyn ar waith i geisio sicrhau dyfodol Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to allow the tymor hir y busnes. Yn anffodus, gorfododd company time to pay an outstanding tax bill gwrthodiad Cyllid a Thollau Ei Mawrhydi i forced it into liquidation, with the loss of ganiatáu amser i’r cwmni i dalu bil treth a dozens of precious jobs in my constituency. oedd yn ddyledus i ddiddymu ei hun, gyda’r Unfortunately, I know of other companies in colled o ddwsinau o swyddi gwerthfawr yn Torfaen that are in the same boat. Minister, I fy etholaeth. Yn anffodus, gwn am gwmnïau am grateful for the support that you are eraill yn Nhorfaen sydd yn yr un cwch. giving the company’s former employees Weinidog, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y through the ReAct programme, but will you gefnogaeth yr ydych yn ei roi i gyn-weithwyr make representations to the UK Government y cwmni drwy’r rhaglen ReAct, ond a and point out in the strongest terms that if it wnewch sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU ac wants a recovery led by the private sector it amlygu, yn y termau cryfaf, os yw am should not be pulling the rug from adferiad sydd wedi’i arwain gan y sector underneath the feet of companies in Wales preifat ni ddylai fod yn tanseilio’r cwmnïau that are keeping people in work? yng Nghymru sydd yn cadw pobl mewn gwaith?
Edwina Hart: Lynne, thank you for Edwina Hart: Lynne, diolch ichi am dynnu highlighting the company’s problems to me. sylw at broblemau’r cwmni i mi. Yr wyf I have asked officials to look at whether we wedi gofyn i swyddogion i edrych a oes have any other examples of this so that they gennym unrhyw enghreifftiau eraill o hyn fel can be included in any correspondence to the y gellir eu cynnwys mewn unrhyw ohebiaeth UK Government. i Lywodraeth y DU.
William Graham: Minister, statistics William Graham: Weinidog, mae indicate that the last decade has been ystadegau’n dangos bod y degawd diwethaf extremely disappointing for companies in the wedi bod yn hynod o siomedig i gwmnïau yn manufacturing sector in Torfaen, with jobs in y sector gweithgynhyrchu yn Nhorfaen, gyda traditional industries haemorrhaging from swyddi mewn diwydiannau traddodiadol yn the area. One of the few sources of good llifo o’r ardal. Un o’r ychydig ffynonellau o news has been the success enjoyed by newyddion da fu llwyddiant y ffatri ArvinMeritor’s plant in Cwmbran, which has ArvinMeritor yng Nghwmbrân, sydd eisoes previously received considerable funding wedi cael cryn gefnogaeth cyllid gan support from the Welsh Government. It Lywodraeth Cymru. Cyhoeddodd recently announced plans to increase the gynlluniau’n ddiweddar i gynyddu nifer y number of staff at the company’s braking staff yn adran frecio’r cwmni o 400 i 500, ac division from 400 to 500, and to redevelop i ailddatblygu rhan o’i safle ar gyfer
35 21/09/2011 part of its site for a Morrisons supermarket, archfarchnad Morrisons, a fydd, gobeithio, which will, hopefully, create another 350 yn creu 350 o swyddi arall. Sut mae’ch jobs. How is your Government looking to Llywodraeth chi’n edrych i gynorthwyo assist other firms in Torfaen to maximise cwmnïau eraill yn Nhorfaen i fanteisio i’r opportunities? eithaf ar gyfleoedd?
Edwina Hart: As a department and Edwina Hart: Fel adran a Llywodraeth, Government, it is important that we should mae’n bwysig y dylem gael ein gweld yn be seen to be open and accessible. I am agored ac yn hygyrch. Yr wyf yn ystyried sut considering how I can have named y gallaf gael unigolion a enwyd fel bod individuals so that companies know who to cwmnïau yn gwybod pwy i gysylltu â, a contact and have a structure put in place. chael strwythur ar waith.
Strategaeth Mewnfuddsoddi Inward Investment Strategy
7. Sandy Mewies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 7. Sandy Mewies: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am y strategaeth mewnfuddsoddi statement on the inward investment strategy ar gyfer Gogledd Cymru. OAQ(4)0023(BET) for North Wales. OAQ(4)0023(BET)
Edwina Hart: I am engaging with a number Edwina Hart: Yr wyf mewn cysylltiad â of partners, including UK Trade and nifer o bartneriaid, gan gynnwys Masnach a Investment, local government and sectors to Buddsoddi’r DU, llywodraeth leol a sectorau explore ways to stimulate the economy and i archwilio ffyrdd i ysgogi’r economi ac i make Wales an attractive place in which to wneud Cymru yn lle deniadol i fuddsoddi invest and do business. ynddi a gwneud busnes ynddo.
Sandy Mewies: Thank you for that, Sandy Mewies: Diolch ichi am hynny, Minister. Can you tell me whether there are Weinidog. A allwch ddweud wrthyf a oes sufficient sites suitable for inward investment digon o safleoedd addas ar gyfer in north Wales? mewnfuddsoddi yng ngogledd Cymru?
Edwina Hart: Depending on the scale and Edwina Hart: Yn dibynnu ar raddfa a natur nature of the inquiry, there are a number of yr ymchwiliad, mae yna nifer o safleoedd yn sites in north Wales that have the planning y Gogledd sydd â’r cynllunio a seilwaith and infrastructure in place. They include the wedi’u sefydlu eisoes. Maent yn cynnwys Wrexham industrial estate; a park in ystâd ddiwydiannol Wrecsam; parc yn Sir y Flintshire, I think; Bangor and Holyhead. Fflint, rwy’n credu; Bangor a Chaergybi. However, I am concerned that we perhaps do Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn bryderus efallai nad not have a large enough site on our borders oes gennym safle ddigon mawr ar ein ffiniau and I have asked officials to look at site ac yr wyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion i edrych availability. ar argaeledd safleoedd.
Janet Finch-Saunders: Minister, I also Janet Finch-Saunders: Weinidog, rwyf i welcome news of the one enterprise zone for hefyd yn croesawu’r newyddion o’r un parth north Wales, and I fully support any further menter ar gyfer y Gogledd, a llwyr gefnogaf initiatives to enhance that scheme. However, unrhyw fentrau pellach i wella’r cynllun how will you proactively bring further hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, sut y byddech chi, yn investment and enterprise to north Wales? rhagweithiol, yn dod â buddsoddiad pellach a According to the latest statistics published, menter i ogledd Cymru? Yn ôl yr ystadegau which are disturbing, north Wales received diweddaraf a gyhoeddwyd, sy’n peri pryder, just 13 per cent and 10 per cent respectively derbyniodd gogledd Cymru dim ond 13 y of the committed expenditure under the cant a 10 y cant yn y drefn honno o wariant much-trumpeted ProAct and ReAct schemes. wedi ymrwymo o dan y cynlluniau ProAct a Under ProAct, £3,433,000 went to north ReAct, cynlluniau a gafodd lawer o Wales, with £27 million spent across Wales gyhoeddusrwydd. O dan ProAct, aeth
36 21/09/2011 as a whole, and, under ReAct, £3,354,000 £3,433,000 i ogledd Cymru, gyda gwariant o went to north Wales, with £31 million spent £27 miliwn ar draws Cymru gyfan, ac, o dan across Wales. I see this as a massive failing ReAct, aeth £3,354,000 i ogledd Cymru, on the part of the previous Government for gyda gwariant o £31 miliwn ledled Cymru. our businesses in north Wales. Minister, will Gwelaf hyn fel methiant enfawr ar ran y you commit to recognising the full potential Llywodraeth flaenorol ar gyfer ein busnesau of north Wales as an important contributor to yn y gogledd. Weinidog, a ymrwymwch i the Welsh labour market? What action will gydnabod potensial llawn y gogledd fel you take to encourage further investment and cyfrannwr pwysig i’r farchnad lafur yng growth in north Wales? Nghymru? Pa gamau a gymerwch i annog mwy o fuddsoddiad a thwf yng ngogledd Cymru?
Edwina Hart: I am the Minister for the Edwina Hart: Yr wyf i’n Weinidog ar gyfer whole of Wales and I intend to attract as Cymru gyfan a bwriadaf i ddenu cymaint o much investment as I can, whether in the fuddsoddiad ag sy’n bosibl, boed yn y east, the west, the north, the south, or mid dwyrain, y gorllewin, y gogledd, y de, neu Wales. There are two enterprise zones ganolbarth Cymru. Dynodwyd dau barth designated for north Wales—one in Ynys menter ar gyfer gogledd Cymru—un yn Ynys Môn and one in Flintshire. That is good news Môn ac un yn Sir y Fflint. Mae hynny’n for north Wales. On your comments about newyddion da i ogledd Cymru. O ran eich ProAct and ReAct, I have never had an sylwadau ynglŷn â ProAct a ReAct, nid wyf adverse comment from any company that I erioed wedi cael sylw anffafriol gan unrhyw have met about any of the assistance that we gwmni y cyfarfûm ynghylch unrhyw have given in those areas as an Assembly gymorth a roddwyd gennym yn yr ardaloedd Government. It is a project that we can be hynny fel Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Mae’n proud of. It was made in Wales, delivered in brosiect y gallwn fod yn falch ohono. Wales, and it has protected jobs and Gwnaed yng Nghymru, darparwyd yng companies in Wales. Nghymru, a diogelwyd swyddi a chwmnïau yng Nghymru.
Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Dywedodd y Prif Llyr Huws Gruffydd: The First Minister Weinidog ddoe mewn ateb i gwestiwn said yesterday in response to a question from gennyf y bydd ymdrechion i ddenu me that efforts to attract investment into the buddsoddiad i’r safle gwaith alwminiwn former aluminium works in Dolgarrog would blaenorol yn Nolgarrog yn parhau. A allech continue. Could you outline what the nature amlinellu beth fydd natur yr ymdrechion of those efforts will be? What ideas do you hynny? Pa syniadau sydd gennych i sicrhau have to ensure that this key, strategic site for bod y safle hwn, sydd yn strategol allweddol Dyffryn Conwy is regenerated? i Ddyffryn Conwy, yn cael ei adfywio?
Edwina Hart: We are in a very difficult Edwina Hart: Yr ydym mewn amgylchedd environment. We continue to market the site anodd iawn. Rydym yn parhau i farchnata’r and try to look for suitable industries. Some safle ac yn ceisio edrych am ddiwydiannau sites are attractive to certain industries addas. Mae rhai safleoedd yn ddeniadol i rai because of their remoteness and I have asked diwydiannau oherwydd eu bod mor officials to concentrate on industries that anghysbell, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion might want to go to different locations i ganolbwyntio ar y diwydiannau hynny sydd further west, and to look at the kind of efallai am fynd i wahanol leoliadau business that we could attract. We are ymhellach i’r gorllewin, ac i edrych ar y developing policy in that area and, hopefully, math o fusnes y gallem eu denu. Rydym yn that will bear fruit in the next few years. datblygu polisi yn y maes hwnnw, a gobeithio y bydd hynny’n dwyn ffrwyth yn yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf.
37 21/09/2011
The Presiding Officer: Question 8, Y Llywydd: Mae cwestiwn 8, OAQ(4)0032(BET), is transferred for written OAQ(4)0032(BET), wedi’i drosglwyddo ar answer by the Minister for Education and gyfer ateb ysgrifenedig gan y Gweinidog Skills. Addysg a Sgiliau.
Busnes a Buddsoddiad Business and Investment
9. Jocelyn Davies: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 9. Jocelyn Davies: Will the Minister make a ddatganiad am hybu Cymru fel lleoliad ar statement on the promotion of Wales as a gyfer busnes a buddsoddiad. location for business and investment. OAQ(4)0034(BET) OAQ(4)0034(BET)
Edwina Hart: We have to build the Edwina Hart: Mae’n rhaid inni adeiladu reputation of Wales as an attractive place in enw da Cymru fel lle deniadol i wneud which to do business; that is vital. That busnes; mae hynny’n hollbwysig. Mae requires an integrated and holistic approach hynny’n gofyn am ymagwedd integredig a to marketing Wales. It includes the work of chyfannol i farchnata Cymru. Mae’n our integrated sector teams, our overseas cynnwys gwaith ein timau sector integredig, network, digital marketing, branding and ein rhwydwaith tramor, marchnata digidol, exploiting creatively major events in Wales. brandio a manteisio i’r eithaf ar We have to exploit the whole package. ddigwyddiadau mawr creadigol yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni fanteisio ar y pecyn cyfan.
Jocelyn Davies: I am sure that you share my Jocelyn Davies: Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn concern at the sorry state of Newport, rhannu fy mhryder ynghylch cyflwr truenus especially the city centre. I heard bids in the Casnewydd, yn enwedig yng nghanol y Chamber this afternoon for Swansea to ddinas. Clywais geisiadau yn y Siambr y become an enterprise zone, and I therefore prynhawn yma i Abertawe i ddod yn barth also ask you to look at Newport, as it has menter, ac felly gofynnaf ichi hefyd ystyried been very hard hit by the recession, its Casnewydd, gan ei fod wedi’i daro’n galed prospects are uncertain, and it certainly iawn gan y dirwasgiad, mae ei ragolygon yn deserves Government intervention. ansicr, ac yn sicr, mae’n haeddu ymyrraeth gan y Llywodraeth.
Edwina Hart: Thank you for those Edwina Hart: Diolch ichi am y sylwadau comments, which have already been made to hynny, sydd eisoes wedi’u gwneud i mi gan me by local Members. I suggest that all of Aelodau lleol. Awgrymaf yr anfonir pob un the 60 letters from across this Chamber o’r 60 o lythyrau yn gofyn am ardaloedd requesting enterprise zones are sent to my menter o ar draws y Siambr hon i’m office. [Laughter.] swyddfa. [Chwerthin.]
Nick Ramsay: I suppose that the Minister is Nick Ramsay: Rwy’n tybio bod y expecting me to call for an enterprise zone in Gweinidog yn disgwyl imi alw am barth my constituency as well, but I will give her a menter yn fy etholaeth i hefyd, ond rhoddaf break. I concur with the comments made by seibiant iddi hi. Cytunaf â’r sylwadau a Councillor Matt Wright in his wnaed gan Gynghorydd Matt Wright yn ei communication to you—we wholeheartedly ohebiaeth i chi—rydym yn llwyr groesawu welcome your belated acceptance that eich derbyniad hwyr bod parthau menter yng enterprise zones in Wales are a good thing, Nghymru yn beth da, ac yr ydym yn falch and we are pleased that you are also looking eich bod hefyd yn edrych ar barthau menter at potential enterprise zones in other areas, posibl mewn ardaloedd eraill, megis such as Swansea and Newport. With regard Abertawe a Chasnewydd. O ran y manylion to the detail of how the economic renewal o sut bydd y sectorau rhaglen adnewyddu programme sectors will tie into these economaidd yn clymu i mewn i’r ardaloedd
38 21/09/2011 enterprise zones, clearly that will mean that, menter hyn, mae’n amlwg y bydd hynny’n unlike in England, there will be a zoning-in golygu, yn wahanol i Loegr, bydd ffocws ar on certain sectors in each enterprise zone. rai sectorau ym mhob parth menter. Fe all rai Some companies that might want to come to cwmnïau sydd efallai eisiau dod i barth an enterprise zone could be outside of those menter fod y tu allan i’r sectorau hynny. Sut sectors. How do you intend to deal with that yr ydych yn bwriadu ymdrin â’r sefyllfa situation when it arises? honno pan fydd yn codi?
Edwina Hart: Interestingly enough, that is Edwina Hart: Yn ddiddorol iawn, mae one issue that has been raised with regard to hynny’n un mater a godwyd ynghylch Sir y Flintshire: if we go for advanced Fflint: os awn am weithgynhyrchu uwch, a manufacturing, are we putting others off? I fydd eraill yn peidio â dod oherwydd hynny? would be hopeful of having localised Byddwn yn obeithiol o gael trafodaethau discussions to see whether we need to go a lleol i weld a oes angen inni fynd gam stage further and change anything that we are ymhellach a newid unrhyw beth yr ydym yn considering. I have a very open mind on this, ei ystyried. Mae gennyf feddwl agored iawn because it is about getting jobs in. At the end ar hyn, oherwydd mae’n ymwneud â chael of the day, my job as Minister—never mind swyddi i mewn. Ar ddiwedd y dydd, mae fy my title—is all about jobs and investment in ngwaith i fel Gweinidog—peidiwch â phoeni Wales. am fy nheitl—yn ymwneud â swyddi a buddsoddiad yng Nghymru.
Nick Ramsay: I am pleased to hear the Nick Ramsay: Yr wyf yn falch o glywed y Minister say that. I think that she will have Gweinidog yn dweud hynny. Credaf y bydd the support of every Assembly Member in ganddi hi gefnogaeth pob Aelod Cynulliad doing what she can at this difficult time to wrth wneud yr hyn a all hi ar yr adeg anodd get more jobs. Following on from that, hon i gael mwy o swyddi. Yn dilyn ar hynny, clearly, the decision of Jaguar Land Rover to yn amlwg, roedd penderfyniad Jaguar Land locate in Wolverhampton and take that £355 Rover i leoli yn Wolverhampton a chymryd y million investment to England instead of buddsoddiad hwnnw o £355 miliwn i Loegr Wales was a major blow to the Welsh yn lle i Gymru yn ergyd mawr i economi economy. Cymru.
2.45 p.m.
I believe that your Government is looking at Yr wyf yn credu bod eich Llywodraeth yn tying the enterprise-zone policy in to a bid to ystyried cysylltu’r polisi parth menter gydag attract the new UK green investment bank to ymgais i ddenu banc buddsoddi gwyrdd Cardiff. If we were to lose that as well, it newydd y DU i Gaerdydd. e baem yn colli would be another blow for us. Could you hynny hefyd, byddai’n ergyd arall i ni. A therefore update us on where the Welsh allwch felly roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf Government currently is with that bid and inni ynghylch cynnydd Llywodraeth Cymru what discussions you have had with the UK gyda’r cais hynny, a pha drafodaethau yr Government to ensure that Cardiff has the ydych wedi’u cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU i best possible chance to bring that UK green sicrhau bod gan Gaerdydd y cyfle gorau investment bank to Wales? posibl i ddod â banc buddsoddi gwyrdd y DU i Gymru?
Edwina Hart: It is important to recognise Edwina Hart: Mae’n bwysig cydnabod y that it would be positive news if a proper byddai’n newyddion cadarnhaol pe bai banc bank was created on the back of this, and we priodol yn cael ei greu o ganlyniad i hyn, ac have, of course, made our necessary yr ydym, wrth gwrs, wedi rhoi ein sylwadau comments to the UK Government. I had angenrheidiol i Lywodraeth y DU. Yr hoped for a meeting with Vince Cable and oeddwn wedi gobeithio am gyfarfod gyda invited him to come to Wales to meet me to Vince Cable, ac yr wyf wedi ei wahodd i
39 21/09/2011 discuss these issues, but, unfortunately, due Gymru i gwrdd â mi i drafod y materion hyn, to his diary commitments, he could not ond, yn anffodus, oherwydd ymrwymiadau come. I have therefore subsequently written yn ei ddyddiadur, nid oedd yn gallu dod. Yn to him to suggest that I could visit him to dilyn hynny, yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu ato i discuss these opportunities. Therefore, what awgrymu y gallwn ymweld ag ef i drafod y you have said is vital. However, I think that I cyfleoedd hyn. Felly, mae’r hyn yr ydych read a tweet by Alun Cairns, in which he wedi’i ddweud yn hanfodol. Fodd bynnag, said that anything that we did on enterprise credaf fy mod wedi darllen trydar gan Alun zones would not have affected the decision Cairns a ddywedodd na fyddai unrhyw on Jaguar Land Rover. I will just leave you weithred gennym ar barthau menter wedi with his comments. effeithio ar y benderfyniad ynghylch Jaguar Land Rover. Gadawaf ei sylwadau gyda chi.
Band Eang Broadband
10. Elin Jones: Sut bydd Llywodraeth 10. Elin Jones: How will the Welsh Cymru yn gwella argaeledd band eang yng Government improve the availability of Nghymru. OAQ(4)0030(BET) broadband in Wales. OAQ(4)0030(BET)
11. Vaughan Gething: A wnaiff y 11. Vaughan Gething: Will the Minister Gweinidog ddatganiad am wella darpariaeth make a statement on improving the provision band eang ledled Cymru. OAQ(4)0037(BET) of broadband across Wales. OAQ(4)0037(BET) Edwina Hart: I am committed to providing Edwina Hart: Yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i high-speed broadband to all residential and ddarparu band eang cyflym i bob safle business premises that the market will not preswyl a busnes na chaiff ddarpariaeth have addressed by 2015. The broadband drwy’r farchnad erbyn 2015. Mae’r cynllun support scheme provides an immediate cymorth band eang yn darparu gwelliant brys remedy for anyone with broadband ar gyfer unrhyw un sydd â chysylltedd band connectivity that is below 2 Mbps. eang yn is na 2 Mbps.
Elin Jones: Ofcom has delayed the auction Elin Jones: Mae Ofcom wedi oedi of the 4G mobile broadband spectrum until arwerthiant y sbectrwm band eang symudol the middle of next year. The 4G option has 4G tan ganol y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae gan yr the potential to significantly improve opsiwn 4G y potensial i wella darpariaeth broadband coverage for not-spot areas. In its band eang yn sylweddol ar gyfer mannau consultation, Ofcom referred to a minimum gwan. Yn ei ymgynghoriad, cyfeiriodd coverage of 95 per cent of the UK for 4G. Ofcom at gwmpas o o leiaf 95 y cant o’r DU Do you agree that a higher percentage ar gyfer 4G. A ydych yn cytuno y gallai coverage specifically relating to Wales could canran uwch o ran argaeledd sy’n ymwneud have the potential to eradicate not spots in yn benodol â Chymru ddileu mannau gwan Wales, and will you therefore raise this yng Nghymru, ac a wnewch chi felly trafod y potential with Ofcom before it publishes its posibilrwydd hwn gydag Ofcom cyn iddo auction details? gyhoeddi ei fanylion arwerthiant?
Edwina Hart: I am delighted to take up the Edwina Hart: Yr wyf yn falch iawn i points that you have raised with me and I gymryd y pwyntiau yr ydych wedi’u codi will certainly discuss them with my officials gyda mi a byddaf yn sicr yn eu trafod â’m to see what kind of letter we can write to swyddogion i weld pa fath o lythyr y gallwn engage with Ofcom to improve provision in ei ysgrifennu er mwyn ymgysylltu ag Ofcom Wales. i wella’r ddarpariaeth yng Nghymru.
Vaughan Gething: I was pleased to hear Vaughan Gething: Yr oeddwn yn falch o your comments in relation to Gwyn Price’s glywed eich sylwadau mewn perthynas â question, as well as in relation to Elin chwestiwn Gwyn Price, yn ogystal â
40 21/09/2011
Jones’s question, and I welcome the chwestiwn Elin Jones, ac yr wyf yn croesawu Government’s commitment to provide ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i gynnig further broadband provision, including next- darpariaeth band eang pellach, gan gynnwys generation broadband. Can you confirm what band eang y genhedlaeth nesaf. A allwch chi progress has already been made on securing gadarnhau pa gynnydd sydd eisoes wedi’i agreement for private sector investment as wneud i sicrhau cytundeb ar gyfer part of delivering next-generation buddsoddiad gan y sector preifat fel rhan o broadband? As we know, the market will not gyflwyno band eang y genhedlaeth nesaf? deliver everything, but private sector Fel y gwyddom, ni fydd y farchnad yn investment is essential to deliver the key cyflawni popeth, ond y mae buddsoddiad gan infrastructure improvements that we seek. y sector preifat yn hanfodol er mwyn cyflawni’r gwelliannau seilwaith allweddol yr ydym yn eu ceisio.
Edwina Hart: I cannot comment on Edwina Hart: Ni allaf roi sylwadau ar anything in relation to contractual unrhyw beth mewn perthynas â’r discussions that have been undertaken by trafodaethau cytundebol sydd wedi cael eu companies that are interested in taking cynnal gan gwmnïau sydd â diddordeb mewn forward the contract. cymryd y contract ymlaen.
Antoinette Sandbach: I, too, was grateful to Antoinette Sandbach: Yr oeddwn i, hefyd, hear the Minister’s support for broadband in yn falch o glywed cefnogaeth y Gweinidog ar answer to Gwyn Price’s question. Can the gyfer band eang yn ei hymateb i gwestiwn Minister confirm whether she will be Gwyn Price. A all y Gweinidog gadarnhau: a matching the £57 million of broadband fydd ei chefnogaeth yn gyfartal â’r £57 infrastructure investment announced by the miliwn o fuddsoddiad seilwaith band eang a UK Government to guarantee super-fast gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU i sicrhau broadband across north Wales? band eang cyflym iawn ledled y gogledd?
Edwina Hart: I have made our commitment Edwina Hart: Rwyf wedi cyhoeddi ein in financial terms well known with regard to hymrwymiad ariannol ac mae’n adnabyddus the large amount of funds that we are o ran y swm mawr o arian yr ydym yn barod prepared to allocate. Our job now is to i’w ddyrannu. Ein gwaith yn awr yw maximise the potential in any contract manteisio i’r eithaf ar y potensial mewn discussions that we have. unrhyw drafodaethau contract sydd gennym.
Aled Roberts: O gofio bod Ynys Môn a Aled Roberts: Bearing in mind that Glannau Dyfrdwy wedi eu penodi fel parthau Anglesey and Deeside have been designated menter yr wythnos hon, a rowch flaenoriaeth as enterprise zones this week, will you give i gael gwared ar y mannau gwan yn yr priority to eradicating the not spots in those ardaloedd hynny? areas?
Edwina Hart: We have a very good product Edwina Hart: Mae gennym gynnyrch da in the broadband that we can offer in many iawn o ran y band eang y gallwn ei gynnig areas in Wales; it is superior to some aspects mewn nifer o ardaloedd yng Nghymru; of broadband across the board. We must mae’n rhagori ar rai agweddau band eang ar recognise that broadband is an infrastructure draws y bwrdd. Mae’n rhaid inni gydnabod issue—and there are hard and soft bod band eang yn fater seilwaith, ac mae yna infrastructure issues. I know that I should not faterion seilwaith caled a meddal. Rwy’n say this in front of techies, but accessing gwybod na ddylwn ddweud hyn o flaen broadband should be as easy as switching on ‘techies’, ond oni ddylai fod mor rwydd i a light, should it not? gael mynediad at fand eang ag ydyw i droi’r golau ymlaen?
Rhaglen Adnewyddu’r Economi Economic Renewal Programme
41 21/09/2011
12. Eluned Parrott: Pa gynnydd sy’n cael ei 12. Eluned Parrott: What progress is being wneud gyda’r Rhaglen Adnewyddu’r made on the Economic Renewal Programme. Economi. OAQ(4)0029(BET) OAQ(4)0029(BET)
Edwina Hart: A range of actions across all Edwina Hart: Mae ystod o gamau yn cael eu portfolios is being implemented. These gweithredu ar draws pob portffolio. Mae’r actions include activities to support better camau hyn yn cynnwys gweithgareddau i economic conditions and raise skill levels in gefnogi gwell amodau economaidd a chodi Wales to promote growth and sustainable lefelau sgiliau yng Nghymru i hyrwyddo twf jobs. a swyddi cynaliadwy.
Eluned Parrott: You have my sympathy on Eluned Parrott: Yr wyf yn cydymdeimlo â the issue of enterprise zones, because if we chi ar y mater o barthau menter, oherwydd os are all in enterprise zones, then, frankly, ydym i gyd mewn parthau menter, yna, a none of us are, and similarly, if every sector dweud y gwir, ni fydd yr un ohonom. Yn yr is included in our sector approach, then we un modd, os yw pob sector yn cael eu would not have a sector approach anymore. cynnwys yn ein ymagwedd sectorol, yna ni However, on 14 June, the First Minister said fyddai gennym ymagwedd sectorol bellach. that the Welsh Government had confidence Fodd bynnag, ar 14 Mehefin, dywedodd y in its economic policy document, ‘Economic Prif Weinidog fod gan Lywodraeth Cymru Renewal: A New Direction’. By contrast, the hyder yn ei dogfen bolisi economaidd, Welsh Labour Party’s manifesto states that ‘Adnewyddu’r Economi: Cyfeiriad Newydd’. Ar y llaw arall, mae maniffesto’r Blaid Lafur Cymru yn datgan bod
‘much of the existing economic base of llawer o sail economaidd bresennol Cymru a Wales and future projections of job growth rhagolygon twf swyddi a chreu cyfoeth yn y and wealth creation lie outside the six key dyfodol y tu hwnt i’r chwe sector allweddol’. sectors’.
Therefore, I would be grateful for some Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar am rywfaint o clarity on whether you will pursue the sector eglurder ynghylch: a fyddwch yn parhau approach or the approach that is outlined in gyda’r dull sector neu’r dull sy’n cael ei your manifesto. hamlinellu yn eich maniffesto?
Edwina Hart: I stand by the Labour Party’s Edwina Hart: Yr wyf yn glynu at manifesto. faniffesto’r Blaid Lafur.
Economi Cymru The Welsh Economy
13. Julie Morgan: Pa gamau y mae’r 13. Julie Morgan: What steps is the Minister Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i roi hwb i’r galw taking to boost demand in the Welsh yn economi Cymru. OAQ(4)0024(BET) economy. OAQ(4)0024(BET)
Edwina Hart: It is important to recognise Edwina Hart: Mae’n bwysig cydnabod ein that we are in an extremely difficult position bod mewn sefyllfa anodd dros ben o ran yr with regard to the economy, and our major economi, a bydd ein prif ymrwymiadau yn commitments will be set out by the First cael eu gosod allan gan y Prif Weinidog yn y Minister in the programme for government. rhaglen lywodraethu. Byddant yn cynnwys They will include supporting the economy cefnogi’r economi a busnes, gwella sgiliau and business, improving Welsh skills for Cymraeg ar gyfer cyflogaeth, a gwella ein employment, and improving our seilwaith. infrastructure.
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Julie Morgan: I thank the Minister for that Julie Morgan: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am yr reply. In light of the latest downgrading by ateb hwnnw. Yn wyneb israddio diweddaraf the International Monetary Fund of the y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol o’r rhagolwg economic growth forecast for the UK for twf economaidd ar gyfer y DU yn 2011, pa 2011, what discussions has the Minister had drafodaethau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi’u cael with her opposite numbers in Northern gyda’r Gweinidogion yng Ngogledd Ireland, Scotland and England about the best Iwerddon, yr Alban a Lloegr am y ffordd means of restoring demand levels and orau o adfer lefelau galw a thwf economaidd economic growth in Wales and throughout yng Nghymru a ledled y DU, er enghraifft the UK, for example by releasing resources drwy ryddhau adnoddau ar gyfer buddsoddi for capital investment? cyfalaf?
Edwina Hart: We must recognise that we Edwina Hart: Mae’n rhaid inni gydnabod have the budget that we have in Wales, and bod gennym y gyllideb sydd gennym yng significant cuts were made to our capital Nghymru, a chafodd ein cyllideb gyfalaf ei budget. It would be nice if some of the dorri’n sylweddol. Byddai’n braf pe byddai discussions that I heard on Radio 4 today rhai o’r trafodaethau a glywais ar Radio 4 about a change of policy and more heddiw am newid polisi a mwy o investment in infrastructure came to fruition. fuddsoddiad mewn seilwaith yn dwyn If a nice sum of money came from the UK ffrwyth. Pe bai swm sylweddol o arian yn Government, we would have a dod gan Lywodraeth y DU, byddwn yn consequential, and we could then get on with derbyn swm canlyniadol, a gallem wedyn some of our infrastructure projects. fwrw ymlaen â rhai o’n prosiectau seilwaith.
Mark Isherwood: One way of boosting Mark Isherwood: Un ffordd o ysgogi galw demand in the Welsh economy is through o ran economi Cymru yw drwy gomisiynu yn public sector commissioning by local y sector cyhoeddus gan awdurdodau lleol, authorities, hospitals and so on. How will ysbytai, ac yn y blaen. Sut y byddwch yn you respond to proposals to use the locality ymateb i gynigion i ddefnyddio’r cymalau and community clauses under European ardal a chymuned o dan ddeddfwriaeth legislation to support small businesses? A Ewropeaidd i gefnogi busnesau bach? representative of a small business in north- Dywedwyd wrthyf gan gynrychiolydd o east Wales told me last week that local fusnes bach yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru authorities are not interested in yr wythnos diwethaf nad oes gan commissioning services from it, and that awdurdodau lleol ddiddordeb mewn they do not want to talk to it and will not comisiynu gwasanaethau oddi wrtho, nad look at doing things differently, and said that ydynt am siarad ag ef a’u bod yn anfodlon you would think that, in this day and age, ystyried gweithio mewn ffordd wahanol. they would want to save money. I was told Dywedodd y byddech yn meddwl, y dyddiau that contracts were being given to a hyn, y byddent yn awyddus i arbed arian. Birmingham-based company that had opened Dywedwyd wrthyf fod contractau yn cael eu an office with a telephone in it in Mold, but rhoi i gwmni yn Birmingham a oedd wedi whose operations were all across the border agor swyddfa gyda ffôn ynddi yn yr in the midlands. Wyddgrug, ond sy’n gweithredu ar draws y ffin yn y canolbarth yn unig.
Edwina Hart: I am sure that my colleague Edwina Hart: Yr wyf yn siŵr yr hoffai fy Carl Sargeant, who deals with some of those nghyd-Aelod, Carl Sargeant, sy’n delio â rhai issues, would like to hear some of the detail. o’r materion hynny, glywed rhai o’r I am concerned sometimes by how manylion. Yr wyf yn pryderu weithiau am sut procurement rules are used, in that they do y mae’r rheolau caffael yn cael eu defnyddio, not encourage more local procurement. We yn yr ystyr nad ydynt yn annog caffael mwy have to be aware that you can get wound up lleol. Mae’n rhaid inni fod yn ymwybodol y in things, such as advice from lawyers and so gall pethau fel cyngor gan gyfreithwyr, ac yn on, whereas you should be saying, ‘Hang on y blaen, fod yn ddryslyd, ond dylech fod yn
43 21/09/2011 a second, who is going to challenge me? Can dweud, ‘Arhoswch eiliad, pwy sy’n mynd i we do this in a different way that benefits the herio mi? A allwn wneud hyn mewn ffordd Welsh economy?’ That is the approach that I wahanol sydd o fudd i economi Cymru?’ take to these issues in my department. I am Dyna sut yr wyf yn ymdrin â’r materion hyn conscious that many small businesses—as yn fy adran i. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod well as SMEs that have 40 or 50 employees, llawer o fusnesau bach—yn ogystal â for example—have been affected by issues busnesau bach a chanolig sydd â 40 neu 50 o to do with the contracts that are awarded by weithwyr, er enghraifft—wedi cael eu local government. I am currently addressing heffeithio gan faterion yn ymwneud â’r those issues. contractau sy’n cael eu dyfarnu gan lywodraeth leol. Yr wyf yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny ar hyn o bryd.
Jenny Rathbone: Another way of increasing Jenny Rathbone: Ffordd arall o gynyddu demand is to secure contracts abroad. Will galw yw sicrhau contractau tramor. A wnaiff the Minister welcome the first official Welsh y Gweinidog groesawu’r daith fasnach trade mission to Bangladesh, which is taking swyddogol cyntaf i Bangladesh, sydd yn cael place this week in the hope that we can ei chynnal yr wythnos hon yn y gobaith y increase the amount of trade done with that gallwn gynyddu faint o fasnach a wneir country? gyda’r wlad honno?
Edwina Hart: It is important that we Edwina Hart: Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn welcome trade missions. Where the croesawu teithiau masnach. Lle mae’r Government is involved in trade missions, it Llywodraeth yn cymryd rhan mewn teithiau is important that we decide on the best areas masnach, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn to trade with, where the maximum potential penderfynu ar yr ardaloedd gorau i fasnachu for trade is and where we are likely to get the â nhw, lle mae’r potensial mwyaf ar gyfer biggest bang for our buck with regard to the masnach a lle rydym yn debygol o gael y money that we spend on relationships. canlyniad gorau am ein harian o ran yr arian yr ydym ei wario ar berthnasau.
Busnesau Bach a Chanolig eu Maint Small and Medium-sized Enterprises
14. David Rees: Pa gefnogaeth fydd y 14. David Rees: What support will the Gweinidog yn ei rhoi i fusnesau bach a Minister be providing for SMEs in areas such chanolig mewn ardaloedd fel Aberafan. as Aberavon. OAQ(4)0026(BET) OAQ(4)0026(BET)
Edwina Hart: I aim to improve the Edwina Hart: Yr wyf yn ceisio gwella’r conditions in which all businesses, large and amodau lle mae pob busnes, mawr a bach, yn small, operate. Businesses need the right gweithredu. Mae busnesau angen y infrastructure, skills and services, and I seilwaith, y sgiliau a’r gwasanaethau cywir, a announced last week the setting up of the chyhoeddais yr wythnos diwethaf sefydlu’r microbusiness task and finish group to grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar ficrofusnesau er review support for microbusinesses. mwyn adolygu cefnogaeth i ficrofusnesau.
David Rees: Thank you for that, Minister. David Rees: Diolch am hynny, Weinidog. As we have heard this afternoon, SMEs Fel yr ydym wedi clywed y prynhawn yma, provide a great deal of employment for the mae busnesau bach a chanolig yn darparu people of Wales. I have had discussions with llawer iawn o gyflogaeth ar gyfer pobl local businessmen and development officers Cymru. Yr wyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda from the local authority, who have said that phobl busnes lleol a swyddogion datblygu yn SMEs find it difficult to raise finance from yr awdurdod lleol, sydd wedi dweud ei fod the banks. At a time when there are 5.2 yn anodd i fusnesau bach a chanolig godi people chasing every vacancy in Aberafan, arian wrth y banciau. Ar adeg pan mae 5.2 o
44 21/09/2011 we cannot afford to miss opportunities for bobl yn cystadlu am bob swydd wag yn businesses to grow and take on more people. Aberafan, ni allwn fforddio colli’r cyfleoedd Therefore, Minister, could you confirm that i fusnesau dyfu a chyflogi mwy o bobl. Felly, you are continuing to make representations Weinidog, a allech gadarnhau eich bod yn to the UK Government to encourage banks to parhau i gyflwyno sylwadau i Lywodraeth y support SMEs, particularly in light of its DU i annog banciau i gefnogi busnesau bach failing project Merlin agreement with the a chanolig, yn enwedig o ystyried ei banks? gytundeb prosiect Merlin gyda’r banciau, sydd yn methu?
Edwina Hart: I had the opportunity recently Edwina Hart: Cefais gyfle yn ddiweddar i to meet representatives of the banks at quite gwrdd â chynrychiolwyr y banciau ar lefel a high level, and I made my views known to eithaf uchel, a mynegais fy marn iddynt. them. I also have a responsibility and a duty Rwyf hefyd â chyfrifoldeb a dyletswydd here, and I have had discussions with yma, ac yr wyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda Finance Wales. Chyllid Cymru.
Maes Awyr Caerdydd Cardiff Airport
15. Mark Drakeford: A wnaiff y Gweinidog 15. Mark Drakeford: Will the Minister make ddatganiad am ddyfodol Maes Awyr a statement on the future of Cardiff Airport. Caerdydd. OAQ(4)0028(BET) OAQ(4)0028(BET)
Edwina Hart: Cardiff Airport is an Edwina Hart: Mae Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn international gateway to Wales, and its future borth rhyngwladol i Gymru, ac mae ei is very important to the Welsh economy. I ddyfodol yn bwysig iawn i economi Cymru. am aware that the airport is in active Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod y maes awyr commercial discussions with several airlines mewn trafodaethau masnachol ar hyn o bryd regarding establishing new routes, and I am gyda nifer o gwmnïau awyrennau ynglŷn â confident that there will be positive sefydlu llwybrau newydd, ac yr wyf yn announcements in the coming months. hyderus y bydd cyhoeddiadau cadarnhaol yn y misoedd nesaf.
Mark Drakeford: Minister, do you agree Mark Drakeford: Weinidog, a ydych yn that the decline of Cardiff Airport is a clear cytuno bod dirywiad Maes Awyr Caerdydd example of market failure and that it exposes yn enghraifft glir o fethiant y farchnad a’i fod the complete inadequacies of policies yn dangos y diffygion cyflawn o bolisïau a pursued at Westminster of a hand-wringing, ddilynir yn San Steffan o ymagwedd gwasgu do-nothing approach to the future of the dwylo a gwneud dim at ddyfodol yr economy? Will you continue in Wales to economi? A wnewch chi barhau yng pursue active government, which means that Nghymru i fynd ar ôl llywodraeth weithredol, the power that we can bring to improving sy’n golygu bod y pŵer y gallwn ddod at that vital service—both to Cardiff and to the wella’r gwasanaeth hanfodol hwnnw—yng city region—will be pursued in the future? Nghaerdydd ac yn y ddinas-rhanbarth—fydd yn cael ei dilyn yn y dyfodol?
Edwina Hart: Yes, I think that we will keep Edwina Hart: Ydw, yr wyf yn meddwl y to that clear policy direction, because there byddwn yn cadw at y cyfeiriad polisi clir has to be intervention from Government. hwnnw, oherwydd bod yn rhaid cael ymyriad With regard to the airport, we also have to gan y Llywodraeth. O ran y maes awyr, look at its management and the commitment mae’n rhaid inni hefyd edrych ar ei reolaeth there. The First Minister has had discussions a’r ymrwymiad yno. Mae’r Prif Weinidog with the airport’s senior management and its wedi cael trafodaethau ag uwch-reolwyr y owners. A good relationship is developing, maes awyr a’i berchnogion. Mae perthynas which will hopefully bear fruit in the form of dda yn datblygu, a fydd gobeithio yn dwyn
45 21/09/2011 improvements to the airport and an increase ffrwyth ar ffurf gwelliannau i’r maes awyr a in the number of passengers who use it. chynnydd yn nifer y teithwyr sy’n ei ddefnyddio.
Mohammad Asghar: Minister, there are Mohammad Asghar: Weinidog, mae yna concerns that Cardiff Airport will prove key bryderon y bydd Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn in the decision on whether we realise the allweddol i’r penderfyniad ynghylch hope of attracting the UEFA Champions wireddu’r gobaith o ddenu rownd derfynol League final to Wales, notably because of Cynghrair Pencampwyr UEFA i Gymru, yn the limited number of airlines operating from benodol oherwydd y nifer cyfyngedig o the terminal and the frequency of flights gwmnïau hedfan sy’n gweithredu o’r from mainland Europe to Cardiff. The Welsh derfynfa ac amlder y teithiau o gyfandir Government has highlighted the relative Ewrop i Gaerdydd. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru proximity of Bristol, Birmingham and wedi tynnu sylw at agosrwydd cymharol Heathrow airports, but is this not an meysydd awyr Bryste, Birmingham a admission of failure on the part of the Welsh Heathrow, ond onid yw hyn yn gyfaddefiad o Government to work actively with the airport fethiant ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru i owners, airlines and other stakeholders to weithio’n ddiwyd gyda pherchnogion y maes help the airport to grow? Are you concerned awyr, cwmnïau hedfan a rhanddeiliaid eraill i that this failure to act will have an adverse helpu’r maes awyr i dyfu? A ydych yn effect on tourism and enterprise and will pryderu y bydd y methiant hwn i weithredu mean that organisations such as UEFA will yn cael effaith niweidiol ar dwristiaeth a look less favourably on Wales than other menter a bydd yn golygu y bydd sefydliadau destinations in the United Kingdom? fel UEFA edrych yn llai ffafriol ar Gymru na chyrchfannau eraill yn y Deyrnas Unedig?
Edwina Hart: There has been no failure to Edwina Hart: Ni fu unrhyw fethiant i act on the part of the Government; we have weithredu ar ran y Llywodraeth; rydym wedi engaged in the necessary discussions and cymryd rhan yn y trafodaethau angenrheidiol have given what help and support we can. In ac wedi rhoi cymorth a chefnogaeth yn ôl ein terms of interest from airlines, we are also gallu. O ran diddordeb gan gwmnïau hedfan, actively involved via our officials. It is very rydym hefyd yn cymryd rhan weithredol trwy important that Cardiff Airport is prosperous ein swyddogion. Mae’n bwysig iawn bod and has more people coming into it and that Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn ffyniannus ac mae we have the appropriate routes so that we ganddo fwy o bobl yn dod i mewn iddo a bod can encourage competitions, as you gennym y llwybrau priodol fel y gallwn indicated. annog cystadlaethau, fel y dywedasoch.
Cynigion i Ethol Aelodau i Bwyllgorau Motions to Elect Members to Committees
Cynnig NNDM4801 Rosemary Butler Motion NNDM4801 Rosemary Butler
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, To propose that the National Assembly for yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol: Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects:
1. Nick Ramsay (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig) yn 1. Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives) as a aelod o’r Pwyllgor Menter a Busnes yn lle member of the Enterprise and Business Andrew RT Davies (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig); Committee in place of Andrew R.T. Davies a (Welsh Conservatives); and
2. Nick Ramsay yn Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor 2. Nick Ramsay as Chair of the Enterprise Menter a Busnes yn lle Andrew RT Davies and Business Committee in place of Andrew
46 21/09/2011
(Ceidwadwyr Cymreig). R.T. Davies (Welsh Conservatives).
Cynnig NNDM4802 Rosemary Butler Motion NNDM4802 Rosemary Butler
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, To propose that the National Assembly for yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Wales, in accordance with Standing Order Suzy Davies (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig) yn aelod 17.14, elects Suzy Davies (Welsh o’r Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Conservatives) as a member of the Deddfwriaethol yn lle Antoinette Sandbach Constitutional and Legislative Affairs (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig). Committee in place of Antoinette Sandbach (Welsh Conservatives).
Cynnig NNDM4803 Rosemary Butler Motion NNDM4803 Rosemary Butler
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, To propose that the National Assembly for yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Wales, in accordance with Standing Order Paul Davies (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig) yn 17.14, elects Paul Davies (Welsh aelod o’r Pwyllgor Cyllid yn lle Nick Conservatives) as a member of the Finance Ramsay (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig). Committee in place of Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives).
Cynnig NNDM4804 Rosemary Butler Motion NNDM4804 Rosemary Butler
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, To propose that the National Assembly for yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Wales, in accordance with Standing Order William Graham (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig) yn 17.14, elects William Graham (Welsh aelod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes yn lle Nick Conservatives) as a member of the Business Ramsay (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig). Committee in place of Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives).
Cynnig NNDM4805 Rosemary Butler Motion NNDM4805 Rosemary Butler
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, To propose that the National Assembly for yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Wales, in accordance with Standing Order Janet Finch-Saunders (Ceidwadwyr 17.14, elects Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Cymreig) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Cymunedau, Conservatives) as a member of the Cydraddoldeb a Llywodraeth Leol yn lle Communities, Equality and Local William Graham (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig). Government Committee in place of William Graham (Welsh Conservatives).
Cynnig NNDM4806 Rosemary Butler Motion NNDM4806 Rosemary Butler
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, To propose that the National Assembly for yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Wales, in accordance with Standing Order William Graham (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig) yn 17.14, elects William Graham (Welsh aelod o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Conservatives) as a member of the Health Cymdeithasol yn lle Janet Finch-Saunders and Social Care Committee in place of Janet (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig). Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives).
Peter Black: I move the motions. Peter Black: Cynigiaf y cynigion.
The Presiding Officer: Unless there are any Y Llywydd: Os nad oes unrhyw objections, I propose that the votes on the wrthwynebiad, cynigiaf fod y pleidleisiau ar motions are grouped. I see that there are no y cynigion yn cael eu grwpio. Gwelaf nad objections. The proposal is to agree the oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad. Y cynnig yw
47 21/09/2011 motions. Does any Member object? I see that cytuno ar y cynigion. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn there are no objections. The motions are gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes unrhyw therefore agreed in accordance with Standing wrthwynebiad. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynigion Order No. 12.36. yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynigion. Motions agreed.
Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Welsh Conservatives Debate
Hygyrchedd Trafnidiaeth Gyhoeddus The Accessibility of Public Transport
The Presiding Officer: I have selected Y Llywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 amendment 1 in the name of Peter Black. yn enw Peter Black.
Cynnig NDM4798 William Graham Motion NDM4798 William Graham
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Yn nodi â phryder bod llai na hanner 1. Notes with concern that less than half of gorsafoedd rheilffordd Cymru yn hollol Wales’ railway stations are fully accessible hygyrch i bobl anabl; to disabled people;
2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i: 2. Calls for the Welsh Government to: a) Wneud trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn fwy a) Make public transport more accessible, hygyrch, drwy ddarparu gwybodaeth through the provision of audio-visual glyweledol ac ymestyn y Cerdyn Bws information and extension of the Companion Cydymaith; Bus Pass; b) Hybu ymwybyddiaeth a hyfforddiant staff b).Promote staff awareness and training in mewn perthynas â gofynion teithwyr anabl. disabled passenger requirements.
Byron Davies: I move the motion. Byron Davies: Cynigiaf y cynnig.
It gives me great pleasure to lead our first Mae’n bleser mawr gennyf arwain ein dadl opposition debate this term. The motion gyntaf fel gwrthblaid y tymor hwn. Nid yw’r before you is not a political point-scoring cynnig ger eich bron chi yn ymarfer i sgorio exercise; it highlights the very real problems pwyntiau gwleidyddol; mae’n tynnu sylw at that affect the lives of many Welsh women y problemau go iawn sy’n effeithio ar and men on a day-to-day basis. fywydau llawer o fenywod a dynion yng Nghymru o ddydd i ddydd.
I am sure that we are all aware of the work Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod i gyd yn ymwybodol undertaken by the Committee on Equality of o’r gwaith a wnaed gan y Pwyllgor Cyfle Opportunity on these issues in the previous Cyfartal ar y materion hyn yn y Cynulliad Assembly. Two of its inquiries are blaenorol. Mae dau o’i ymchwiliadau yn particularly relevant to this debate. The first arbennig o berthnasol i’r ddadl hon. Y cyntaf was the inquiry into the impact of Welsh oedd yr ymchwiliad i effaith polisi Government policy on the accessibility of Llywodraeth Cymru ar hygyrchedd transport services for disabled people in gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth ar gyfer pobl anabl
48 21/09/2011
Wales, the report for which was published in yng Nghymru; cyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad February 2011. The second was the inquiry hynny ym mis Chwefror 2011. Yr ail oedd yr into the accessibility of railway stations, the ymchwiliad i hygyrchedd gorsafoedd report for which was published in October rheilffordd a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Hydref 2010. Both reports make reference to the 2010. Mae’r ddau adroddiad yn cyfeirio at value of providing specific training to werth o ddarparu hyfforddiant penodol i transport providers to help them to meet the gludo darparwyr i’w helpu i ddiwallu needs of disabled passengers. anghenion teithwyr anabl.
3.00 p.m.
Both of these independent reports evidence Mae’r ddau adroddiad annibynnol hyn yn these problems and lend some weight to our dangos problemau ac yn atgyfnerthu’n calls in this motion. However, I do not wish galwadau yn y cynnig hwn i raddau. Fodd to give the impression that all is bad in this bynnag, nid wyf am roi’r argraff fod popeth field. I want to pay tribute to organisations yn ddrwg yn y maes hwn. Hoffwn roi such as Newport Transport. It is one of the teyrnged i sefydliadau megis Newport few bus operators in the UK to specifically Transport. Mae’n un o’r ychydig gwmnïau tailor its certificate of professional bysiau yn y DU i deilwra’i dystysgrif competence driver training to include cymhwysedd proffesiynol ar hyfforddiant comprehensive modules on understanding the gyrru yn benodol er mwyn cynnwys needs of disabled passengers. As part of this modiwlau cynhwysfawr ar ddeall anghenion training, bus drivers experience first-hand teithwyr anabl. Fel rhan o’r hyfforddiant what it is like to have a disability. This is hwn, caiff gyrwyr brofiad uniongyrchol o sut achieved through participation in a series of beth yw bod ag anabledd. Cyflawnir hyn trwy role-play scenarios, where drivers are asked gymryd rhan mewn cyfres o sefyllfaoedd to wear goggles and ear defenders—to chwarae rôl, lle gofynnir i yrwyr wisgo gogls experience what it is like to have a visual or a chlustffonau—i brofi sut beth yw e i fod â hearing impairment—and to use a wheelchair nam ar y llygaid neu’r clyw—ac i ddefnyddio and walking aid to get on and off a bus. This cadair olwyn a ffrâm gerdded wrth fynd ar ac has made a dramatic difference to attitude oddi ar fws. Mae hyn wedi gwneud and perception and the assistance that people gwahaniaeth dramatig i agwedd a with disabilities in the Newport area receive. chanfyddiad pobl, a’r cymorth y mae pobl ag This is very commendable. anableddau yn ardal Casnewydd yn ei gael. Mae hyn i’w gymeradwyo’n fawr.
This excellent level of training is sadly Yn anffodus, mae’r lefel hyfforddiant missing in relation to many other modes of ardderchog yma ar goll yn nifer o ddulliau public transport across Wales. We urge the cludiant cyhoeddus eraill ar draws Cymru. Welsh Government to consider action. We Rydym yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i believe that audio-visual announcements ystyried camau gweithredu. Credwn y dylid should be phased in to all public transport. cyflwyno cyhoeddiadau clyweledol yn raddol New contracts and procurement methods i ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus drwyddi draw. should require best practice to be followed. Dylai contractau newydd a dulliau caffael On this side of the Chamber, we want bus ofyn am ymrwymiad i arfer gorau. Ar yr ochr travellers who require help from more than hon i’r Siambr, rydym eisiau i deithwyr bws one companion to be able to apply for sydd angen cymorth gan fwy nag un additional passes. Furthermore, the Welsh cydymaith allu gwneud cais am docynnau Government should be proactive in clarifying ychwanegol. Ar ben hynny, dylai companion bus pass guidance and ensuring Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn rhagweithiol wrth that all users and providers know the criteria. egluro canllawiau tocyn bws cydymaith a In my view, these actions represent the bare sicrhau bod pob defnyddiwr a darparwr yn minimum that is required. gwybod y meini prawf. Yn fy marn i, mae’r camau gweithredu hyn yn cynrychioli’r isafswm y dylid gofyn amdano.
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Another important issue that is sometimes Mater pwysig arall sydd weithiau’n mynd yn forgotten is that, while implementing these angof yw bod angen i ni ymgysylltu’n policies, we need to properly engage with briodol â grwpiau anabledd wrth gyflwyno’r disability groups. This is vital in ensuring polisïau hyn. Mae hyn yn hanfodol er mwyn that their needs are met by new schemes and sicrhau bod cynlluniau a pholisïau newydd yn policies. Very often, this engagement does diwallu eu hanghenion. Yn aml iawn, nid not happen. Swansea High Street station yw’r ymgysylltiad hyn yn digwydd. Mae development is a good example of good datblygiad gorsaf Stryd Fawr Abertawe yn practice and effective use of consultation enghraifft dda o arfer da a defnydd effeithiol duties under the Equality Act 2010. o ddyletswyddau ymgynghori o dan Ddeddf Disability and access groups were Cydraddoldeb 2010. Ymgynghorwyd yn meaningfully consulted. This is an exemplar ystyrlon â grwpiau anabledd a mynediad. and I hope that it is used as best practice. Mae hyn yn enghraifft dda a gobeithiaf y caiff ei defnyddio fel arfer gorau.
Before concluding, I want to touch on one Cyn terfynu, rwyf am grybwyll un ystadegyn shocking statistic that fewer than half of brawychus, sef fod llai na hanner gorsafoedd Wales’s railway stations are fully accessible rheilffordd Cymru yn hollol hygyrch i bobl to disabled people. A further shocking anabl. Ystadegyn brawychus arall yw mai statistic is that just 16 per cent of stations in dim ond 16 y cant o orsafoedd yng Nghymru Wales have part access to platforms for sydd â mynediad cadair olwyn i blatfformau. wheelchair users. Some 36 per cent have no Nid oes gan ryw 36 y cant unrhyw fath o access whatsoever. In addition, concerns fynediad. Yn ychwanegol i hyn, codwyd were raised about the lack of publicity for pryderon am y diffyg cyhoeddusrwydd i schemes such as the disabled persons’ gynlluniau fel y cerdyn trên i bobl anabl. I railcard. To compound this problem, a gymhlethu’r broblem, mae nifer o number of local authorities in Wales have cut awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru wedi torri ar their half-price travel concessions for elderly eu consesiynau teithio hanner pris ar gyfer and disabled rail users. Carmarthenshire defnyddwyr rheilffyrdd henoed a’r anabl. County Council, for example, recently ended Enghraifft o hyn yw’r ffaith bod Cyngor Sir an agreement with Arriva Trains Wales in a Caerfyrddin wedi dod â chytundeb gyda bid to save £60,000 a year. Threnau Arriva Cymru i ben mewn ymgais i arbed £ 60,000 y flwyddyn.
This has a very real effect on people’s lives. Mae hyn yn cael effaith wirioneddol ar Take for example the experience of a fywydau pobl. Cymerwch brofiad wheelchair user from Bridgend who said that, defnyddiwr cadair olwyn o Ben-y-bont ar if they go out for the night with their friends, Ogwr, er enghraifft, a ddywedodd, os ydynt they cannot get the last train back to yn mynd allan am y noson gyda’u ffrindiau, Bridgend because no-one would be at the ni allant gael y trên olaf yn ôl i Ben-y-bont station to open the side gate and they gan na fyddai unrhyw un yn yr orsaf i agor y therefore would not be able to get over the giât ochr ac na fyddent felly yn gallu mynd footbridge. There is also the experience of a dros y bont droed. Ceir hefyd y profiad o lady from Prestatyn who said that she has ferch o Brestatyn a ddywedodd ei bod wedi tried to use the assisted booking system, ceisio defnyddio’r system archebu a which means that you have to book 24 hours gynorthwyir, sy’n golygu bod yn rhaid i chi in advance. However, there is only one space archebu 24 awr ymlaen llaw. Fodd bynnag, available per train, so if you want to go dim ond un lle sydd ar gael i bob trên, felly somewhere with another disabled person, you os ydych chi eisiau mynd i rywle gyda have to travel on a separate train. Andrea pherson arall anabl, mae’n rhaid i chi deithio Gordon from the Guide Dogs for the Blind ar drên ar wahân. Dywedodd Andrea Gordon Association said that it is hard to put into o Gymdeithas Cŵn Tywys y Deillion ei bod words how intimidating some rail stations yn anodd rhoi mewn geiriau pa mor heriol y can be. gall rhai gorsafoedd rheilffyrdd fod.
50 21/09/2011
In July, I travelled from Cardiff back to Ym mis Gorffennaf, teithiais o Gaerdydd yn Gowerton, travelling west with Arriva Trains. ôl i Dre-gŵyr, gan deithio i’r gorllewin gyda When we stopped at Swansea, I witnessed an Threnau Arriva. Pan arhosom ni yn elderly lady in a wheelchair being put onto a Abertawe, gwelais wraig oedrannus mewn very packed train. It was very embarrassing cadair olwyn yn cael ei rhoi ar drên gorlawn. to watch the lady and to see her Roedd gwylio’r wraig yn codi embaras arnaf, embarrassment about the difficulty that she a gallwn weld ei hembaras hi oherwydd y was causing other passengers. I felt disbelief drafferth roedd hi’n ei hachosi i deithwyr at the reaction of the passengers on the train. eraill. Roedd ymateb rhai o’r teithwyr ar y It is incumbent upon us to implement change trên, yn fy marn i, yn anodd i’w gredu. Mae’n in this area and to change people’s attitudes ddyletswydd arnom i gyflwyno newidiadau to disabled people. yn y maes hwn ac i newid agweddau pobl tuag at bobl anabl.
Charities such as Multiple Sclerosis Society Mae elusennau fel cymdeithas Multiple Cymru have noted the second-class system in Sclerosis Cymru wedi nodi’r system eilradd operation for disabled people. Similarly, a sydd ar waith ar gyfer pobl anabl. Yn yr un former disability rights commissioner for modd, crybwyllodd cyn gomisiynydd Wales mentioned the common problems of, hawliau anabledd yng Nghymru broblemau cyffredin, fel,
‘no toilets on the train, very few toilets dim toiledau ar y trên, ychydig iawn o facilities in stations, very often not an gyfleusterau toiledau mewn gorsafoedd, dim opportunity to get some help or support at the cyfle’n aml i gael ychydig o gymorth neu station, no access to the station’. gefnogaeth yn yr orsaf, dim mynediad i’r orsaf.
He added, Ychwanegodd,
‘Would you take the chance of getting on a A fyddech chi’n cymryd y siawns o fynd ar train at one point at a station that was drên mewn un gorsaf a oedd yn hygyrch a accessible to arrive at another without theithio i un arall heb wybod a fyddai’r orsaf knowing whether it was accessible or that honno’n hygyrch neu a fyddai cefnogaeth support would be there?’ yno?
Disability Wales have also raised similar Mae Anabledd Cymru hefyd wedi codi nifer concerns, stating, o bryderon tebyg, gan ddweud,
‘Lack of accessibility can make it very Gall diffyg hygyrchedd ei gwneud yn anodd difficult for disabled people to be iawn i bobl anabl wneud penderfyniadau ar spontaneous.’ hap.
These are real and human concerns that affect Mae’r pryderon yma’n bryderon our constituents on a daily basis. I hope that gwirioneddol a dynol sy’n effeithio ar ein all Members can approach this serious debate hetholwyr yn ddyddiol. Gobeithiaf y gall pob without party political bias and follow the Aelod gymryd y ddadl hon o ddifrif heb tone that we are setting on this side of the ragfarn wleidyddol plaid a dilyn y dôn yr Chamber and accept this motion and the need ydym yn ei gosod ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr a for urgent action. derbyn y cynnig hwn a’r angen i weithredu ar frys.
Gwelliant 1 Peter Black Amendment 1 Peter Black
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add new point at end of motion:
51 21/09/2011 cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau ei Calls for the Welsh government to ensure bod yn ymgynghori’n llawn â phobl anabl a that it fully consults with disabled people and chynrychiolwyr grwpiau anabledd wrth representatives of disability groups in ddatblygu unrhyw gynlluniau ar gyfer gwella developing any plans for improvements for hygyrchedd i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. accessibility to public transport.
Eluned Parrott: I move amendment 1 in the Eluned Parrott: Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw name of Peter Black. Peter Black.
Equality of access to public transport is a Mae mynediad cydradd i drafnidiaeth basic human right in this day and age. gyhoeddus yn hawl ddynol sylfaenol yn yr Therefore, I welcome this debate today and I oes sydd ohoni. Felly, croesawaf y ddadl hon thank the Conservative group for using their heddiw a diolchaf i’r grŵp Ceidwadol am time to bring this important issue forward. ddefnyddio’i amser i gyflwyno’r mater pwysig hwn.
It is difficult for any of us to imagine how we Mae’n anodd i unrhyw un ohonom would react if we were to suddenly find our ddychmygu sut y byddem yn ymateb pe own mobility restricted. We have already baem ni, yn sydyn, yn canfod bod ein heard that fewer than half of Wales’s railway symudedd ni’n hunain wedi’i gyfyngu. Yr stations are accessible to wheelchair users ydym eisoes wedi clywed bod llai na hanner and even fewer have accessible facilities, gorsafoedd rheilffordd Cymru yn hygyrch i such as toilets. None of the rolling stock ddefnyddwyr cadair olwyn, ac mae hyd yn running on the Valleys lines in south Wales oed llai o gyfleusterau hygyrch, fel toiledau. has accessible toilets. For people with Nid oes gan yr un o’r cerbydau sy’n rhedeg disabilities, many of whom are not able to ar reilffyrdd y Cymoedd yn ne Cymru drive, the public transport network is their doiledau hygyrch. O safbwynt pobl ag only means of communicating with the anableddau, nad yw llawer ohonynt yn gallu outside world, getting to work, seeing friends gyrru, y rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus and family, and escaping the confinement of yw eu hunig ffordd o gyfathrebu â’r byd y tu their home. allan, i fynd i’r gwaith, i weld ffrindiau a theulu, ac i ddianc rhag caethiwed eu cartref.
We cannot accurately measure the number of Ni allwn fesur yn gywir nifer y bobl anabl disabled people using our transport network, sy’n defnyddio ein rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth, which tends to hide the scale of the problem ac mae hynny’n tueddu i guddio maint y that we face. However, we can look at figures broblem a wynebwn. Fodd bynnag, gallwn such as the use of the disabled person’s edrych ar ffigurau o ran defnydd y cerdyn railcard. Over the past two years, the number rheilffordd ar gyfer pobl anabl. Dros y ddwy of journeys in Wales made using these flynedd ddiwethaf, mae nifer y teithiau yng railcards has shot up by more than 20 per Nghymru a wnaed trwy ddefnyddio’r cardiau cent to 455,000 per year. Over the next few hyn wedi cynyddu’n aruthrol, dros 20 y cant i years our railway system will have to adapt to 455,000 y flwyddyn. Dros yr ychydig meet legislation to make sure that disabled flynyddoedd nesaf, bydd yn rhaid i’n system people have reasonable access. reilffyrdd addasu i gwrdd â’r ddeddfwriaeth i sicrhau bod gan bobl anabl fynediad rhesymol.
I spoke to Network Rail two weeks ago and Siaradais â Network Rail bythefnos yn ôl ac its representatives are aware of the challenges mae ei gynrychiolwyr yn ymwybodol o’r that they face. Crucially, they also recognise heriau sy’n eu hwynebu. Yn hanfodol, maent the fact that consulting disability groups hefyd yn cydnabod y ffaith y bydd when planning accessible facilities will help ymgynghori â grwpiau anabledd wrth
52 21/09/2011 them to deliver better customer service and a gynllunio cyfleusterau hygyrch yn eu helpu i better experience for the traveller. ddarparu gwell gwasanaeth i gwsmeriaid ac yn brofiad gwell i’r teithiwr.
Ann Jones: I would be interested to know Ann Jones: Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb whether you challenged Network Rail’s gwybod a wnaethoch chi herio cynrychiolwyr representatives on whether they had spoken Network Rail ynghylch a oeddent wedi siarad to disabled people about access and what the â phobl anabl ynghylch mynediad a beth response of those people was. oedd ymateb y bobl hynny.
Eluned Parrott: Yes, I did; that was one of Eluned Parrott: Do, mi wnes; dyna un o’r the things that I challenged them on. When I pethau yr heriais i nhw yn ei gylch. Pan spoke to them, we looked at the statistics, siaradais â nhw, edrychom ar yr ystadegau, they gave me an idea as to their plans for the rhoesant hwy syniad ynghylch eu cynlluniau future, and I challenged them on whether ar gyfer y dyfodol, a heriais i hwy ynghylch a they had been speaking to the relevant oeddent wedi bod yn siarad â’r bobl people. In fact, I gave them the contact berthnasol. Yn wir, rhoddais fanylion cyswllt details of some of the people they need to rhai o’r bobl y mae angen iddynt siarad â speak to. nhw.
Unfortunately, the problem is that when Yn anffodus, y broblem yw bod cyrff public bodies look for the most efficient cyhoeddus i weld yn mabwysiadu yr un dull solution, they seem to adopt a one-size-fits- ar gyfer pawb pan fyddan nhw’n ceisio dod o all approach. Sadly, in reality, in relation to hyd i’r datrysiad mwyaf effeithlon. Yn disabilities, one size does not fit anyone—no anffodus, mewn gwirionedd, yng nghyd- two disabled people have exactly the same destun anableddau, nid yw’r un ateb yn needs. We need to make sure that we take a siwtio pawb—nid oes gan ddau berson anabl balanced response to understand what those yn union yr un anghenion. Mae angen i ni needs are. sicrhau ein bod yn ymateb yn gytbwys er mwyn deall beth yw’r anghenion hynny.
Two weeks ago, I met the MS Society in Bythefnos yn ôl, cyfarfûm â’r MS Society Cardiff. I was prepared to hear that there was yng Nghaerdydd. Roeddwn yn barod i not enough access because I already knew the glywed nad oedd digon o fynediad am fy statistics; however, I did not expect to hear mod eisoes yn gyfarwydd â’r ystadegau; fodd that even where accessible features were bynnag, nid oeddwn yn disgwyl clywed nad being installed, they were not always of yw cyfleusterau hygyrch, hyd yn oed lle assistance to disabled people. People with maent yn cael eu gosod, yn wastad o gymorth MS have a wide variety of symptoms and i bobl anabl. Mae gan bobl sydd ag MS accessibility needs, and problems arise for amrywiaeth eang o symptomau ac anghenion many of them when they do not fit into the hygyrchedd, ac mae problemau’n codi i nifer pigeon hole that they have been allocated. ohonynt pan nad ydynt yn ffitio’r categori y maen nhw wedi ei gosod ynddi.
I will highlight some of the examples where Tynnaf sylw at rai o’r enghreifftiau lle na common sense has not been applied and ddefnyddiwyd synnwyr cyffredin a lle na disabled people have been denied access even chafodd phobl anabl fynediad hyd yn oed at to ‘accessible’ facilities. There are accessible gyfleusterau ‘hygyrch’. Mae yna doiledau toilets that have doors that open inwards so hygyrch sydd â drysau sy’n agor i mewn, that when you put a wheelchair in them you felly pan fyddwch yn rhoi cadair olwyn cannot shut the door. Lifts have been ynddynt, nid ydych yn gallu cau’r drws. Mae installed that are not big enough to take both lifftiau mewn ambell le nad ydynt yn ddigon the wheelchair and the person pushing it. mawr i gymryd y gadair olwyn a’r person There are also ramps that are too narrow for a sy’n ei gwthio. Mae yna hefyd rampiau sy’n modern electric wheelchair to be able to use rhy gul i gadair olwyn drydan fodern fynd ar
53 21/09/2011 safely and ramps that are so steep that hyd iddynt yn ddiogel, a rampiau sydd mor someone in a manual wheelchair would shoot serth y byddai rhywun mewn cadair olwyn yn off the end at about twice the speed of sound. saethu oddi ar y pen yn gynt na chyflymder Some ramps have a shallow wall built next to sain. Caiff wal fas ei hadeiladu wrth ymyl them, which is not always a problem for ambell ramp, ac er nad yw hynny bob amser wheelchair users, but is a major trip hazard yn broblem i ddefnyddwyr cadeiriau olwyn, for someone with a visual impairment. mae’n achosi perygl mawr i rywun â nam ar y golwg.
My own village station in Rhoose was built Adeiladwyd fy ngorsaf bentref i yn y Rhws by the Welsh Government as part of the gan Lywodraeth Cymru fel rhan o’r gwaith o reopening of the Vale of Glamorgan line, ailagor llinell Bro Morgannwg, yr ydym i gyd which we all very much welcome. As you yn ei groesawu. Fel y byddech yn disgwyl, would expect, it has ramped access, but it is a mae mynediad drwy ramp i’w gael yno, ond shame that someone, in their wisdom, mae’n drueni bod rhywun, yn ei ddoethineb, decided to fit a kissing gate at the bottom of wedi penderfynu gosod giât fochyn ar waelod the ramp. Its purpose is obviously to prevent y ramp. Ei bwrpas yn amlwg yw i atal cyclists from riding down the ramp, but it is beicwyr rhag seiclo i lawr y ramp, ond mae also an effective deterrent to anyone planning hefyd yn effeithiol wrth atal unrhyw un sy’n to use their wheelchair on it. The railings are bwriadu defnyddio eu cadair olwyn arno. too close together, wheelchairs are not good Mae’r rheiliau yn rhy agos at ei gilydd, nid at making turns and you cannot make the turn yw cadeiriau olwyn yn hawdd i’w troi ac ni at that station entrance. allwch droi ym mynedfa’r orsaf honno.
The support available to people with Mae’r cymorth sydd ar gael i bobl ag disabilities and the facilities and equipment anableddau a’r cyfleusterau a’r offer a used by disabled people change over time. A ddefnyddir gan bobl anabl yn newid dros modern wheelchair is a completely different amser. Mae’r gadair olwyn fodern yn greadur beast to the ones that we had 20 years ago. hollol wahanol i’r rhai oedd gennym 20 That is not always taken into account when mlynedd yn ôl. Nid yw hynny’n wastad yn access provisions are made, and that is why cael ei ystyried wrth wneud trefniadau we need to ensure that representatives of mynediad, a dyna pam mae angen inni people with disabilities are involved in sicrhau bod cynrychiolwyr ar ran pobl ag helping our public bodies—our public anableddau yn cael eu cynnwys wrth helpu transport operators in this instance—to plan ein cyrff cyhoeddus—ein gweithredwyr their accessibility measures. They need to be trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn yr achos hwn—i represented today, tomorrow and in the future gynllunio eu mesurau hygyrchedd. Mae so that as their support and equipment angen iddynt gael eu cynrychioli heddiw, changes and develops over time, our yfory ac yn y dyfodol fel bod ein seilwaith accessible infrastructure continues to be hygyrch yn parhau i fod yn hygyrch wrth i’r accessible. Amendment 1 that I am proposing gefnogaeth sydd ar gael iddyn nhw newid, ac today is aimed at ensuring that that happens. wrth i’w hoffer newid a datblygu. Mae It is important because, currently, the work gwelliant 1 a gynigiaf heddiw yn anelu at that is being undertaken does not always have sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd. Mae’n bwysig the desired impact. It is achievable because I oherwydd, ar hyn o bryd, nid yw’r gwaith have spoken to the station landlords in sy’n cael ei wneud wastad yn cael yr effaith a Network Rail and some of the disability ddymunir. Mae’n bosib cyflawni hyn, charities, who have all said that they would oherwydd rwyf wedi siarad â landlordiaid support it. Finally, it would save us money gorsafoedd yn Network Rail a rhai o’r because it would cut out wasteful spending elusennau anabledd, sydd i gyd wedi dweud y on accessible features that do not work and byddent yn ei gefnogi. Yn olaf, byddai’n then have to be replaced at a later date. There arbed arian i ni gan y byddai’n torri ar are examples of this kind of approach wariant gwastraffus ar nodweddion hygyrch working well in practice, for example, sydd ddim yn gweithio ac sy’n gorfod cael eu Swansea Access For Everyone working with hail-wneud yn ddiweddarach. Mae gennym
54 21/09/2011
Arriva Trains Wales and Swansea council. enghreifftiau o hyn yn gweithio’n dda yn The purpose of this amendment— ymarferol, er enghraifft, Mynediad i Bawb Abertawe yn gweithio gyda Threnau Arriva Cymru a chyngor Abertawe. Pwrpas y gwelliant hwn—
The Presiding Officer: Order. Will you Y Llywydd: Trefn. A wnewch chi ddirwyn i wind up please? ben os gwelwch yn dda?
Eluned Parrott: The purpose of this Eluned Parrott: Pwrpas y gwelliant hwn yw amendment is to ensure that our transport sicrhau bod ein gwasanaeth cludiant yn rhoi service gives access to people who need it mynediad i’r bobl sydd ei angen fwyaf, nid most, not only in theory, but in practice. yn unig mewn theori, ond yn ymarferol.
William Graham: Like the two previous William Graham: Yn debyg i’r ddau speakers, I wish to concentrate on three siaradwr blaenorol, hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar particular issues: design for access, current dri mater penodol: dylunio mynediad, problems and information, or rather the lack problemau cyfredol a gwybodaeth, neu yn of it. Access should be an integral design hytrach y diffyg gwybodaeth. Dylai feature of our transport network. Ideally, we mynediad fod yn nodwedd annatod o should seek greater integration of our ddylunio yn ein rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth. Yn transport system and a central point where ddelfrydol, dylem geisio mwy o integreiddio buses, trains and taxis can all converge. yn ein system drafnidiaeth, ynghyd â phwynt Passengers would certainly like to see that, canolog lle y gall bysiau, trenau a thacsis and it is also the aspiration of many cities and gyfarfod. Byddai teithwyr yn sicr yn hoffi towns. Unfortunately, the reality in most of gweld hynny, ac mae hefyd yn ddyhead gan our cities and towns is that this has not been lawer o ddinasoedd a threfi. Yn anffodus, y realised, and transferring between different realiti yn y rhan fwyaf o’n dinasoedd a threfi forms of transport is difficult and confusing. yw nad yw hyn wedi cael ei wireddu, ac mae This is a problem for all passengers, but the trosglwyddo rhwng gwahanol fathau o difficulties are far greater for someone who is gludiant yn anodd ac yn ddryslyd. Mae hon disabled. It has been estimated that, for yn broblem ar gyfer pob teithiwr, ond mae’r someone who is fit and healthy, it takes about anawsterau yn llawer mwy i rywun sy’n five minutes to walk from Newport rail anabl. Amcangyfrifir ei bod hi’n cymryd tua station to the bus station. It takes about 10 phum munud i rywun sy’n ffit ac yn iach i minutes to walk from Wrexham rail station to gerdded o orsaf drenau Casnewydd i’r orsaf the bus station there. These times can be fysiau. Mae’n cymryd tua 10 munud i trebled for some disabled people. gerdded o orsaf drenau Wrecsam i’r orsaf fysiau yno. Gall yr amserau yma gael eu treblu yn achos rhai pobl anabl.
However, some of the most appalling design Fodd bynnag, mae rhai o’r nodweddion features relate to access to our rail network. It dylunio mwyaf ofnadwy yn ymwneud â seems to be ridiculous not to have wheelchair mynediad i’n rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd. Mae’n access to a station platform but to have ymddangos yn chwerthinllyd i beidio â chael wheelchair access onto or from a train on that mynediad i gadeiriau olwyn i blatfform platform. A wheelchair user not aware of the gorsaf ond bod cadeiriau olwyn yn gallu situation can arrive by train at Pontypool and mynd i drenau neu oddi arnynt o’r platfform New Inn station and be assisted by the guard hwnnw. Gall defnyddiwr cadair olwyn nad or conductor onto the platform; however, yw’n ymwybodol o’r sefyllfa gyrraedd ar once the train has departed, they would find drên i orsaf Pont-y-pŵl a New Inn a chael ei themselves stranded on the platform as there gynorthwyo gan y gard neu’r casglwr are 24 steps down to the subway that leads to tocynnau i gyrraedd y platfform; fodd the station exit. Pontypool and New Inn bynnag, wedi i’r trên adael, ni fyddai modd station is unmanned, although there is a iddynt adael y platfform gan fod 24 o risiau i
55 21/09/2011 telephone helpline for passengers. Those who lawr i’r isffordd sy’n arwain at allanfa’r think that this situation could not arise should orsaf. Nid oes staff yn gweithio ar orsaf Pont- think again. For example, a disabled lady was y-pŵl a New Inn, ond mae yna linell gymorth stranded on Rhyl station because the ar gyfer teithwyr. Dylai’r rheini sy’n meddwl passenger lifts were not working. It was 45 na allai sefyllfa o’r fath godi feddwl eto. Er minutes before someone answered her enghraifft, roedd gwraig anabl yn sownd ar helpline call. Then, after the involvement of orsaf y Rhyl oherwydd nad oedd y lifftiau yn North Wales Police and British Transport gweithio. Aeth 45 munud heibio cyn i rywun Police, an ambulance crew was required to ateb ei galwad i’r llinell gymorth. Yna, ar ôl i give her medical attention before she was Heddlu Gogledd Cymru a Heddlu carried from the station. Trafnidiaeth Prydain ddelio â’r mater, roedd angen criw ambiwlans i roi sylw meddygol i’r wraig cyn iddi gael ei chario o’r orsaf.
I appreciate that many access issues arise Yr wyf yn sylweddoli bod llawer o faterion from the age of our stations. However, from mynediad yn codi yn sgîl oedran ein August 2007 until September 2010, gorsafoedd. Fodd bynnag, o fis Awst 2007 i wheelchair access to the Assembly- fis Medi 2010, yr oedd cadeiriau olwyn yn Government-funded platform 4 at Newport cael mynediad i blatfform 4 yng ngorsaf station was via a taxi arranged by station Casnewydd, a ariennir gan Lywodraeth y staff. Today, despite many years of Cynulliad, drwy dacsi a drefnwyd gan staff yr addressing accessibility, there are still too orsaf. Heddiw, er gwaethaf nifer o many barriers for passengers with limited flynyddoedd o fynd i’r afael â hygyrchedd, mobility to overcome. In South Wales East mae’n dal i fod gennym ormod o rwystrau y there are 30 railway stations; 24 of these are mae’n rhaid i deithwyr â symudedd unmanned, 13 are accessed by ramps with a cyfyngedig eu goresgyn. Yn Nwyrain De gradient steeper than 1:12 and only three Cymru, mae 30 o orsafoedd rheilffyrdd; nid have accessible lavatory facilities. The last oes staff yn 24 o’r rhain; ceir mynediad i 13 point is not only an issue for disabled ohonynt drwy ddefnyddio rampiau â passengers: the Welsh Senate of Older People graddiant sy’n fwy serth na 1:12; a dim ond highlights how a lack of access to lavatory tri sydd â chyfleusterau toiled hygyrch. Mae’r facilities reduces the ability of older people to pwynt olaf nid yn unig yn broblem i deithwyr remain active and restricts their time away anabl: mae Senedd Pobl Hŷn Cymru wedi from their home. dangos sut y mae diffyg mynediad i gyfleusterau toiled yn lleihau gallu pobl hŷn i barhau’n weithgar ac yn cyfyngu ar eu hamser i ffwrdd o’u cartref.
3.15 p.m.
I mentioned the subway and the 24 steps at Soniais am y tanlwybr a’r 24 o risiau yng Pontypool and New Inn station, and note ngorsaf Mhont-y-pŵl a New Inn, ac rwy’n similar restrictions at Chepstow station, nodi cyfyngiadau tebyg yng ngorsaf Cas- where access to the Newport bound platform gwent, lle mae mynediad at y platfform tuag is via a step foot bridge, and Abergavenny at Gasnewydd dros bont risiau, a gorsaf y station, where access to the Newport bound Fenni, lle mae mynediad at y platform tuag at platform requires a footbridge of 45 steps or Gasnewydd yn golygu croesi pont droed â barrow crossing during ticket-office hours. ganddi 45 o risiau neu groesi’r cledrau yn These are the platforms used by people ystod oriau agor y swyddfa docynnau. Mae’r travelling to work. It is an alarming statistic rhain yn blatfformau a ddefnyddir gan bobl that 23 per cent of disabled people have to sy’n teithio i’r gwaith. Mae’n ystadegyn turn down jobs due to a lack of accessible brawychus bod 23 y cant o bobl anabl yn transport. Public transport is, by definition, gorfod gwrthod swyddi oherwydd diffyg only public if it is available to all. cludiant hygyrch. Mae trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, drwy ddiffiniad, ond yn
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gyhoeddus os yw ar gael i bawb.
Finally, I turn to the issue of information. Yn olaf, trof at y mater o wybodaeth. Mae’r Most of us only need to enquire about the rhan fwyaf ohonom ddim ond eisiau holi time of a train and the cost of the fare. A amser y trên a chost tocyn. Mae’n rhaid i wheelchair user has to know if there is access ddefnyddiwr cadair olwyn wybod a oes to the platform, if there is assistance at their mynediad i’r platfform, a oes cymorth ar gael destination, if there is a platform lift and if it yn eu cyrchfan, a oes lifft i’r platfform ac a will be working. Where buses and trains are fydd yn gweithio. Lle mae bysiau a threnau accessible it is important that information yn hygyrch, mae’n bwysig y darperir about accessibility is provided, otherwise gwybodaeth am eu hygyrchedd, neu, fel arall, accessible services could be made gallai gwasanaethau hygyrch gael eu gwneud inaccessible if disabled people are not told yn anhygyrch os na ddywedir wrth bobl anabl when the right service will be running. pan mae’r gwasanaeth cywir yn rhedeg. Yn Similarly, where a service is advertised as yr un modd, lle mae gwasanaeth yn cael ei accessible, every effort should be made to hysbysebu yn un hygyrch, dylid gwneud pob ensure that accessible buses run on that route. ymdrech i sicrhau bod bysiau hygyrch yn Access to information is vital when a service rhedeg ar y llwybr hwnnw. Mae mynediad at does not arrive, is late or is full and, wybodaeth yn hanfodol pan nad yw’r therefore, may not stop. At peak times, if the gwasanaeth yn cyrraedd, pan mae’n hwyr bus does not arrive late, it might be so full of neu’n llawn ac, o bosibl, ddim yn stopio. Ar passengers it is not possible for someone adegau prysur, os na fydd y bws yn cyrraedd using a wheelchair, a frame or other yn hwyr, gallai fod mor llawn o deithwyr nad community equipment to get in, forcing them yw’n bosibl i rywun sy’n defnyddio cadair to wait for the next bus. For able passengers, olwyn, ffrâm neu offer cymunedol arall gael this is a nuisance; for disabled passengers, the lle, gan eu gorfodi i aros am y bws nesaf. I problem is far greater. Depending on the deithwyr nad ydynt yn anabl, mae hynny’n particular disability, the passenger may have niwsans; i deithwyr anabl, mae’r broblem yn planned to get on a specific bus at a specific fwy o lawer. Yn dibynnu ar yr anabledd time or they may not know when the next bus penodol, gall y teithiwr fod wedi bwriadu is due. Someone with a visual disability mynd ar fws penodol ar adeg benodol neu might not be able to see the proper timetable efallai nad ydynt yn gwybod pryd bydd y bws to find out when the next bus will arrive. If nesaf yn dod. Mae’n bosibl na fydd rhywun information about accessibility is not already ag anabledd gweledol yn gallu gweld yr available, accessible services become amserlen briodol i gael gwybod pryd bydd y completely inaccessible. bws nesaf yn cyrraedd. Os nad yw gwybodaeth am hygyrchedd ar gael ymlaen llaw, mae gwasanaethau hygyrch yn troi’n gwbl anhygyrch.
Sadly, most of the comments that I have Yn anffodus, cafodd y rhan fwyaf o’r made this afternoon I originally made in sylwadau yr wyf wedi’u gwneud y prynhawn 2008. Minister, we look to you now for yma eu gwneud gennyf yn wreiddiol yn action. 2008. Weinidog, edrychwn i chi yn awr i weithredu.
Rebecca Evans: I am pleased that the Welsh Rebecca Evans: Yr wyf yn falch bod Government has signed up to the social Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i’r model of disability, recognising that people model cymdeithasol o anabledd, gan are more disabled by poor design, gydnabod bod pobl yn anabl yn fwy inaccessible services and other people’s oherwydd dylunio gwael, gwasanaethau attitudes than they are by their impairment. I anhygyrch ac agweddau pobl eraill na thrwy am glad that the Government has committed amhariad. Yr wyf yn falch bod y to keep this at the heart of policy Llywodraeth wedi ymrwymo i gadw hyn development and delivery. This must include wrth galon datblygu a chyflawni polisi. Rhaid
57 21/09/2011 the national transport plan, but it must also i hyn gynnwys y cynllun trafnidiaeth inform the Government’s discussions with cenedlaethol, ond rhaid iddo hefyd lywio the UK Department for Transport, Network trafodaethau’r Llywodraeth ag Adran Rail and others involved in the delivery of Drafnidiaeth y DU, Network Rail ac eraill public transport here in Wales. I am sure that sy’n ymwneud â darparu cludiant cyhoeddus many Members will seek to focus their yma yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd contributions on the physical aspects of llawer o Aelodau yn ceisio canolbwyntio eu public transport: accessibility of platforms, cyfraniadau ar yr agweddau ffisegol ar facilities and so on. I would certainly agree drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus: hygyrchedd that these are extremely important and platfformau, cyfleusterau ac ati. Byddwn yn serious issues. sicr yn cytuno bod y rhain yn faterion hynod o bwysig a difrifol.
However, I will focus my contribution on the Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn canolbwyntio fy accessibility of public transport for people nghyfraniad ar hygyrchedd trafnidiaeth with unseen disabilities. By unseen gyhoeddus ar gyfer pobl ag anableddau disabilities, I am talking about things like anweledig. Wrth ddweud anableddau mental illness, learning difficulties and anweledig, yr wyf yn sôn am bethau fel autism. For individuals living with these salwch meddwl, anawsterau dysgu ac disabilities, ‘accessibility’ might mean awtistiaeth. Ar gyfer unigolion sy’n byw something completely different. To make gyda’r anableddau hyn, gallai ‘hygyrchedd’ travel or safety information for people with olygu rhywbeth hollol wahanol. I wneud learning disabilities or autism inclusive, it gwybodaeth am deithio neu ddiogelwch yn may need to be made available in easyread or gynhwysol ar gyfer pobl ag anableddau picture form. I would ask the Government, dysgu neu awtistiaeth, mae angen iddo fod ar therefore, to explore how it can work with gael ar ffurf hawdd ei darllen neu lun. transport providers and the voluntary sector Byddwn yn gofyn i’r Llywodraeth, felly, to open up access to travel information to archwilio sut y gall weithio gyda darparwyr people who may need it in these formats. trafnidiaeth a’r sector gwirfoddol i agor mynediad at wybodaeth deithio i bobl sydd ei hangen yn y fformatau hyn.
People with disabilities, both seen and Mae pobl ag anableddau, y gellir eu gweld ac unseen, are often disproportionately victims sy’n anweledig, yn aml yn dioddef bwlio ar of bullying. This bullying sometimes takes raddfa anghymesur. Dieithriaid sydd place by strangers in public places such as weithiau’n gyfrifol am y bwlio hwn mewn bus stops or at train stations. In its evidence mannau cyhoeddus fel arosfannau bysiau neu to the previous Committee on Equality of orsafoedd trên. Yn ei dystiolaeth i Opportunity’s inquiry into the accessibility of ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal railway stations, Passenger Focus noted how blaenorol i hygyrchedd gorsafoedd more than half of people with disabilities are rheilffordd, nododd Passenger Focus fod concerned about their personal security when mwy na hanner y bobl ag anableddau yn using train stations. Addressing this will be pryderu am eu diogelwch personol wrth part of the Government’s wider work to ddefnyddio gorsafoedd trên. Bydd mynd i’r tackle disability hate crime and to raise afael â hyn yn rhan o waith ehangach y awareness and acceptance of difference. Llywodraeth i fynd i’r afael â throseddau casineb anabledd ac i godi ymwybyddiaeth ynghylch gwahaniaeth.
However, there are some small practical Fodd bynnag, ceir rhai camau gweithredu actions that can be taken in order to improve ymarferol bach y gellir eu cymryd i wella’r the situation. Some smaller train stations, for sefyllfa. Mae rhai gorsafoedd trenau llai o example, still do not have a help button to faint, er enghraifft, nad oes ganddynt fotwm call for assistance. By simply addressing this, cymorth i alw am gymorth. Drwy ymdrin â providers could give people with disabilities hyn, gallai darparwyr roi mwy o hyder i bobl
58 21/09/2011 more confidence in using trains and ag anableddau wrth ddefnyddio trenau ac, o potentially deter the perpetrators of bullying. bosibl, atal y rhai sy’n bwlio. O gofio bod Bearing in mind that Disability Wales tells us Anabledd Cymru yn dweud wrthym y mae’n that some people with disabilities prefer to well gan rai pobl ag anableddau i deithio yn travel during the less busy off-peak times, ystod adegau tawel llai prysur, efallai eu bod they may find that they are more isolated wedi’u hynysu’n fwy wrth deithio. when travelling.
It is vital to consult with disabled people and Mae’n hollbwysig i ymgynghori â phobl representatives of disability groups in anabl a chynrychiolwyr grwpiau anabledd developing plans for improvements to wrth ddatblygu cynlluniau ar gyfer transport accessibility. I know that the Welsh gwelliannau i hygyrchedd trafnidiaeth. Gwn Government is already working with the fod Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes yn gweithio railway industry to seek to achieve exemplary gyda’r diwydiant rheilffordd i geisio sicrhau status in actively involving disabled people in statws rhagorol wrth fynd ati i gynnwys pobl planning rail improvements and monitoring anabl wrth gynllunio gwelliannau rheilffyrdd rail accessibility issues. In doing so, I urge a monitro materion hygyrchedd rheilffyrdd. the Welsh Government to ensure that people Wrth wneud hynny, anogaf Lywodraeth with unseen disabilities and their Cymru i sicrhau bod pobl ag anableddau representatives are also included in this anweledig a’u cynrychiolwyr wedi’u consultation, because they will have their cynnwys yn yr ymgynghoriad hwn, own important viewpoints as to what exactly oherwydd bydd ganddynt eu safbwyntiau accessibility means to them. pwysig eu hunain o ran beth yn union mae hygyrchedd yn golygu iddynt.
People with disabilities have the right to Mae gan bobl ag anableddau yr hawl i access and enjoy all aspects of life, many of fwynhau a chael mynediad at bob agwedd o which, such as employment or socialising, fywyd, y mae llawer ohonynt, fel cyflogaeth require the use of public transport. The free neu gymdeithasu, yn ddibynnol ar bus pass for older people, disabled people ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Mae’r and their carers has been a real success, and tocyn bws am ddim ar gyfer pobl hŷn, pobl the Labour Party is committed to keeping it. anabl a’u gofalwyr wedi bod yn llwyddiant go iawn, ac mae’r Blaid Lafur wedi’i hymrwymo i’w gadw.
I will close by asking the Minister to consider Byddaf yn gorffen drwy ofyn i’r Gweinidog undertaking an assessment as to whether ystyried cynnal asesiad ynghylch a yw pobl people with unseen disabilities are fully ag anableddau anweledig yn elwa’n llawn ar benefiting from the free bus pass. I also ask y tocyn bws am ddim. Gofynnaf hefyd i’r the Minister to encourage local authorities Gweinidog annog awdurdodau lleol a chyrff and other bodies to work with the rail eraill i weithio gyda’r diwydiant rheilffyrdd i industry to improve the take-up of disabled wella’r niferoedd sy’n defnyddio tocynnau people’s railcards among people with unseen teithio i bobl anabl ymhlith pobl ag disabilities, as they are often among the most anableddau anweledig, oherwydd nhw, yn disenfranchised people in our society. aml, yw rhai o’r bobl fwyaf difreintiedig yn ein cymdeithas.
Mohammad Asghar: For many of us, using Mohammad Asghar: I lawer ohonom, mae public transport is easy, yet for those who are defnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn hawdd, blind, partially sighted or suffer from other ac eto ar gyfer y rheini sy’n ddall, rhannol disabilities, accessing public transport can be ddall neu’n dioddef o anableddau eraill, gall a hugely daunting experience. One of the defnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus fod yn biggest issues for me is spontaneity. With brofiad hynod frawychus. Un o’r materion less than half of railway stations fully mwyaf i mi yw naturioldeb. Gyda llai na accessible, buses largely lacking appropriate hanner y gorsafoedd rheilffordd yn gwbl
59 21/09/2011 announcements, travel information often hygyrch, bysiau yn aml ddim yn gwneud difficult to find in accessible formats and cyhoeddiadau priodol, gwybodaeth am doubts existing over staff understanding, the deithio yn aml yn anodd dod o hyd iddi journey for a disabled passenger often mewn fformatau hygyrch ac amheuon requires rigorous advanced planning. presennol ynghylch dealltwriaeth staff, mae angen i deithiwr anabl gynllunio ei daith yn drwyadl ymlaen llaw.
I passionately believe that the Welsh Credaf yn gryf fod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Government must do all that it can to ensure Cymru wneud popeth yn ei gallu i sicrhau that disabled people find it as easy as possible bod pobl anabl yn ei chael mor hawdd â to use public transport. This will ultimately phosibl i ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. allow many disabled people in Wales to live Yn y pen draw, bydd hyn yn caniatáu i lawer more independently. I have called for the o bobl anabl yng Nghymru fyw’n fwy introduction of audio and visual annibynnol. Yr wyf wedi galw ers cryn amser announcements on the bus network across am gyflwyno cyhoeddiadau sain a gweledol Wales for a long time. This is relatively ar y rhwydwaith bysiau ledled Cymru. Mae’r simple but hugely innovative technology, dechnoleg hon yn hynod arloesol ond yn which makes travelling on buses so much syml, sy’n gwneud teithio ar fysiau gymaint easier for so many. yn haws ar gyfer cynifer o bobl.
I was delighted when Newport Transport Yr oeddwn yn falch pan ymrwymodd committed in evidence to the Committee on Trafnidiaeth Casnewydd, mewn tystiolaeth Equality of Opportunity to become the UK’s i’r Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal, i fod yn gwmni first bus operator to install audio destination bws cyntaf y DU i osod offer cyhoeddiadau announcements in all new buses procured. sain am gyrchfannau ym mhob bws newydd Sadly, due to the economic climate, my sy’n cael ei gaffael. Yn anffodus, oherwydd discussions would suggest that this yr hinsawdd economaidd, byddai fy conviction has been slightly downgraded. nhrafodaethau yn awgrymu bod y However, it remains committed to exploring penderfyniad hwn wedi’i israddio ychydig. this development, and also to the possibility Fodd bynnag, mae’n parhau i fod wedi of introducing visual announcements. ymrwymo i ystyried y datblygiad hwn, a hefyd y posibilrwydd o gyflwyno cyhoeddiadau gweledol.
I recently welcomed staff from the Guide Yn ddiweddar, croesawais staff o Dogs for the Blind Association to my Gymdeithas Cŵn Tywys y Deillion i’m regional office in Newport to meet Newport swyddfa ranbarthol yng Nghasnewydd i Transport officials. We await a commitment gwrdd â swyddogion Trafnidiaeth paper that the transport group has promised Casnewydd. Rydym yn aros am bapur to prepare. I am eager to praise Newport ymrwymo y mae’r grŵp trafnidiaeth wedi Transport on its staff training. The addo ei baratoi. Yr wyf yn awyddus i ganmol mechanisms presently in place tailor the Trafnidiaeth Casnewydd am ei hyfforddiant driver’s certificate of professional staff. Mae’r mecanweithiau sydd ar waith ar competence to include modules on the needs hyn o bryd yn teilwra tystysgrif cymhwysedd of disabled passengers. proffesiynol y gyrwyr i gynnwys modiwlau Such good practice needs to be replicated ar anghenion teithwyr anabl. Mae angen across Wales, and I am eager to hear from the efelychu arfer da o’r fath ledled Cymru, ac yr Minister on how the Welsh Government can wyf yn awyddus i glywed gan y Gweinidog influence this. am sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ddylanwadu ar hyn.
It is also essential that disabled service Hefyd, mae’n hanfodol yr ymgynghorir â groups are consulted on training. Newport grwpiau anabl gwasanaeth ar hyfforddiant Transport told me that it has had dialogue hefyd. Dywedodd Trafnidiaeth Casnewydd
60 21/09/2011 with Gwent Sight Support, which is another wrthyf ei fod wedi cael deialog gyda Gwent positive step and the kind of thing that should Sight Support, sy’n gam cadarnhaol arall a’r be replicated across Wales. math o beth y dylid ei efelychu ledled Cymru.
Our motion today highlights extending the Mae ein cynnig heddiw yn pwysleisio companion bus pass scheme, which is hugely ymestyn y cynllun tocyn bws i gydymaith, important. Current regulations state that a sy’n bwysig iawn. Mae rheoliadau presennol severely disabled person may request one yn nodi y gall person ddifrifol anabl ofyn am companion bus pass. Additional carers are un tocyn bws i gydymaith. Mae gofalwyr required to pay for travel. This should be ychwanegol yn gorfod talu i deithio. Dylid addressed, so that bus travellers who require rhoi sylw i hyn, fel y gall teithwyr bws sydd help from more than one companion should angen help gan fwy nag un cydymaith wneud be able to apply for additional passes. This is cais am docynnau ychwanegol. Mae hwn yn an issue that I raised with the First Minister fater a godais gyda’r Prif Weinidog yn earlier on in this Assembly, and I was pleased gynharach yn y Cynulliad hwn, ac yr oeddwn when he told me in writing that his officials yn falch pan ddywedodd wrthyf yn were looking into this. I hope that the Welsh ysgrifenedig fod ei swyddogion yn Government can provide us with an update ymchwilio i’r mater hwn. Gobeithiaf y gall on the developments in those discussions. Llywodraeth Cymru roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y datblygiadau yn y trafodaethau hynny.
I have recently spoken to the families of Yn ddiweddar, yr wyf wedi siarad â constituents who suffer from serious theuluoedd etholwyr sydd yn dioddef o disabilities and need more than one anableddau difrifol ac mae angen mwy nag companion when making bus journeys, and I un cydymaith arnynt ar gyfer teithiau bws, a feel that this additional support should be theimlaf y dylai’r cymorth ychwanegol hwn made available to severely disabled people in fod ar gael i bobl ag anableddau difrifol yng Wales. As I have said before, an inequitable Nghymru. Fel y dywedais eisoes, mae flaw exists that needs addressing. gwendid anghyfartal yn bodoli y mae angen mynd i’r afael ag ef.
To conclude, in Wales, too many disabled I gloi, yng Nghymru, ar hyn o bryd, mae people are presently daunted by the prospect gormod o bobl anabl yn ofni defnyddio of using public transport, because the system trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus oherwydd mae’r often lacks accessibility. While I welcome system yn aml yn anhygyrch. Er y croesawaf the improvements that have been made, 34 y gwelliannau sydd wedi’u gwneud, nid oes per cent of railway stations in Wales have no gan 34 y cant o orsafoedd rheilffordd yng platform access for wheelchair users and Nghymru fynediad i’r platfform ar gyfer nearly nine out of 10 railway stations lack defnyddwyr cadeiriau olwyn ac mae bron i wheelchair-accessible toilets. That is naw o bob 10 gorsaf rheilffordd heb doiledau shameful, Minister. MS Cymru highlights sy’n hygyrch i gadeiriau olwyn. Mae hynny’n how the 2011 Welsh Labour manifesto made gywilyddus, Weinidog. Mae MS Cymru yn reference to improving public transport tynnu sylw at sut y gwnaeth maniffesto accessibility. Llafur Cymru 2011 gyfeirio at wella hygyrchedd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.
The Presiding Officer: Order. Can you wind Y Llywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch, os up, please? gwelwch yn dda.
Mohammad Asghar: I hope that the Welsh Mohammad Asghar: Gobeithiaf y bydd Government clears up its intentions today, as Llywodraeth Cymru yn egluro ei bwriad a lot of work remains to be done to ensure heddiw, oherwydd mae llawer o waith i’w that the transport network allows disabled wneud i sicrhau bod y rhwydwaith
61 21/09/2011 people to enjoy greater independence and, in trafnidiaeth yn caniatáu i bobl anabl fwynhau many cases, to fulfil their potential in life. mwy o annibyniaeth ac, mewn llawer o achosion, gyflawni eu potensial mewn bywyd.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yr wyf yn Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I welcome this croesawu’r cynnig hwn ar ran Plaid Cymru. motion on behalf of Plaid Cymru. We will be Byddwn yn ei gefnogi—yn wir, nid oes supporting it—in fact, it contains nothing unrhyw beth ynddo y byddem yn anghytuno with which we would disagree, and I very ag ef, ac yr wyf yn mawr obeithio nad oes much hope that it contains nothing with unrhyw beth ynddo y byddai unrhyw Aelod which any elected Member in this place etholedig yn y lle hwn yn anghytuno ag ef. would disagree. We should all unite to Dylem i gyd uno i gefnogi unrhyw ymgais i support any endeavour to ensure that public sicrhau bod trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn gwbl transport is fully accessible to people with hygyrch i bobl ag anabledd. Yr wyf yn hapus disabilities. I am happy to support the i gefnogi’r gwelliant sydd wedi’i gyflwyno amendment put forward by the Liberal gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, gwelliant Democrats, amendment 1, which endorses 1, sydd yn ategu’r cynnig ac, os rhywbeth, yn the motion and, if anything, strengthens it. ei gryfhau.
Mae’r cynnig yn agor drwy sôn am y ffaith The motion opens by referring to the fact that bod llai na hanner gorsafoedd rheilffordd fewer than half of Wales’s railway stations Cymru yn gwbl hygyrch i bobl ag anabledd. are fully accessible to people with a Mae’r datganiad hwnnw yn llythrennol disability. That is literally true, but according gywir, ond yn ôl ymchwil manwl MS Cymru to detailed research carried out by MS Wales, ar hyn, dim ond 8 y cant, sef 16, o orsafoedd only 8 per cent, or 16, of Wales’s railway rheilffordd Cymru sydd yn gwbl hygyrch i stations are fully accessible to people with a bobl ag anabledd. Mae’r ystadegyn hwnnw disability. That statistic reflects the problem yn adlewyrchu’r broblem sydd yn ein that faces us and the much greater problem hwynebu a’r broblem lawer mwy sydd yn that faces people with a disability in trying to wynebu pobl ag anabledd wrth iddynt geisio access public transport. defnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.
Mae’r cynnig hefyd yn sôn am yr angen i The motion also refers to the need to ensure sicrhau bod pob elfen o’r gwasanaeth trenau that every element of the railway service is yn gwbl hygyrch, ond byddwn yn ehangu fully accessible, but I would expand that and hynny ac yn cefnogi galwad Mohammad support Mohammad Asghar’s call to ensure Asghar i sicrhau bod gwybodaeth glywedol that audio information is made available on ar gael ar y rhwydwaith bysiau. Yn aml—yr the bus network. Often—we have all had this ydym i gyd wedi cael y profiad hwn wrth experience when travelling by rail—having deithio ar drenau—wedi gwneud rhan o’r made part of our journey, we are transferred daith, yr ydym yn gorfod trosglwyddo o drên from the train and onto a bus. People with a i fws. Byddai hynny’n golygu bod pobl sydd visual impairment or who are blind would â nam ar eu golwg neu sydd yn ddall mewn find themselves in an unfamiliar amgylchedd nad oeddent yn gwbl sicr ohono, environment, without vital information on the heb wybodaeth hanfodol am y stop nesaf. next stop.
Mae’r cynnig hwn yn amserol, oherwydd This motion is timely, because the bu’r Pwyllgor Cymunedau, Cydraddoldeb a Communities, Equality and Local Llywodraeth Leol yn derbyn tystiolaeth y Government Committee received evidence bore yma am agwedd gyffredinol cymdeithas this morning about the general attitude of tuag at bobl ag anabledd, gan ganolbwyntio society towards people with a disability, ar wynebu ymddygiad sydd yn aml yn gallu focusing on behaviour that can often be bod yn fygythiol neu sy’n eu trin fel threatening or that treats them as second-class dinasyddion eilradd. citizens.
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3.30 p.m.
Mae’r cynnig hwn yn cyfeirio at yr angen i This motion refers to the need to ensure that sicrhau bod pobl yn derbyn hyfforddiant. people receive training. Every rail company Mae pob cwmni rheilffordd yn gorfod has to have a policy on safeguarding people darparu polisi amddiffyn pobl ag anabledd. with a disability. Should the Government not Oni ddylai’r Llywodraeth fynnu, o fewn y insist that, within that policy, every rail polisi hwnnw, fod pob cwmni rheilffordd yn company commits to offer staff training on ymrwymo i gynnig hyfforddiant i’w staff ar how to assist people with a disability and sut i gynorthwyo pobl ag anabledd a sut i how to operate in a practical way to weithredu mewn ffordd ymarferol i ddod dros overcome the obstacles that they clearly face y rhwystrau sy’n amlwg yn eu hwynebu ar at present in trying to access trains? I see that hyn o bryd wrth iddynt geisio cael mynediad the Minister is responding in the affirmative i drenau? Gwelaf fod y Gweinidog yn ymateb to that; I am sure that he will refer to that in yn gadarnhaol i hynny; yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd responding to the debate, and that it is very yn cyfeirio at hynny wrth ymateb i’r ddadl, much to be welcomed. I also hope that the ac mae hynny i’w groesawu’n fawr iawn. Minister will continue the emphasis that the Gobeithiaf hefyd y bydd y Gweinidog yn One Wales Government had on developing parhau â’r pwyslais oedd gan Lywodraeth public transport in Wales, but also on Cymru’n Un ar ddatblygu trafnidiaeth ensuring access for disabled people to public gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ond hefyd ar geisio transport in Wales. Once again I see that the sicrhau mynediad i bobl ag anabledd i Minister is responding in the affirmative, and drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru. we very much welcome that also. Unwaith eto, gwelaf fod y Gweinidog yn ymateb yn gadarnhaol i hynny, a chroesawn hynny yn fawr iawn hefyd.
Yr wyf wedi ceisio peidio â gwneud I have tried not to make political points, but I pwyntiau gwleidyddol, ond mae’n rhaid i mi must conclude by making a fundamental orffen drwy wneud pwynt sylfaenol. Mae’r point. Provision for disabled people has ddarpariaeth ar gyfer pobl anabl wedi deteriorated since the railway system was gwaethygu ers i’r system rheilffordd gael ei privatised. It is clear that that will continue, phreifateiddio. Mae’n amlwg bod hynny’n with the statement from Philip Hammond, the mynd i barhau, gyda datganiad Philip Minister, that he wants to see those who Hammond, y Gweinidog, ei fod am weld y travel on trains shouldering the costs, rather costau’n cael eu gosod yn uniongyrchol ar than the taxpayer. We must face that fact, ysgwyddau pobl sy’n teithio ar drenau yn although it may be a painful experience for hytrach nag ar y trethdalwr. Mae’n rhaid i ni some in this building. wynebu’r ffaith honno, er efallai y bydd hynny’n brofiad poenus i rai pobl yn yr adeilad hwn.
Russell George: I will take out some points Russell George: Fe wnaf dynnu allan rhai that I intended to make in my contribution, as pwyntiau yr oeddwn yn bwriadu eu gwneud many of them have already been made. A yn fy nghyfraniad, gan fod llawer ohonynt study undertaken by the Multiple Sclerosis eisoes wedi’u gwneud. Canfuwyd astudiaeth Society Cymru found that only 8 per cent of a gynhaliwyd gan Multiple Sclerosis Society railway stations in Wales are disabled Cymru bod dim ond 8 y cant o orsafoedd friendly. That is, just 16 out of 220 railway rheilffordd yng Nghymru yn anabl-gyfeillgar. stations have wheelchair access to platforms, Hynny yw, mae gan ddim ond 16 allan o 220
63 21/09/2011 accessible toilets and wheelchair access to the o orsafoedd rheilffordd fynediad cadair train. In my constituency, a number of olwyn i lwyfannau, toiledau hygyrch a railway stations are inaccessible to people mynediad cadair olwyn i’r trên. Yn fy who are disabled, and they are pretty bad for etholaeth i, mae nifer o orsafoedd rheilffordd anyone with a slight walking impediment, yn anhygyrch i bobl sy’n anabl, ac maent yn older people or young mums with a pram. eithaf gwael i unrhyw un sydd â rhywfaint o However, it is absolutely impossible for rwystr cerdded, pobl hŷn neu famau ifanc anyone who is disabled to try to get over gyda phram. Fodd bynnag, mae’n gwbl some railway bridges, such as that in amhosibl i unrhyw un sy’n anabl i geisio Newtown, which can only be reached via mynd dros rhai pontydd rheilffordd, fel yr un steps, or under some bridges, such as the one yn y Drenewydd, y gellir ei gyrraedd dim ond in Machynlleth, which floods regularly. Even trwy ddefnyddio’r grisiau, neu o dan rhai where there are stations that are deemed to pontydd, fel yr un ym Machynlleth, lle mae have reasonable access, such as that in llifogydd rheolaidd. Hyd yn oed ble mae Welshpool, which has had ramps installed in gorsafoedd yr ystyrir bod ganddynt fynediad recent years, the gradient of the ramps is so rhesymol, fel yr un yn y Trallwng, sydd wedi steep that they cannot be negotiated without cael rampiau wedi’u gosod yn y blynyddoedd help. One constituent who uses an electric diwethaf, mae graddiant y rampiau mor serth wheelchair likened it to skiing down the ni ellir eu negodi heb gymorth. Dywedodd un Alps. o’m hetholwyr sy’n defnyddio cadair olwyn drydan ei fod yn debyg i sgïo i lawr yr Alpau.
As politicians, we must do better on this, and Fel gwleidyddion, rhaid inni wneud yn well upgrading our traffic infrastructure, ar hyn, ac mae angen i uwchraddio’n particularly our railway stations, needs to be seilwaith traffig, a’n gorsafoedd rheilffyrdd part of a package of measures to help yn arbennig, fod yn rhan o becyn o fesurau i disabled people lead more independent lives. helpu pobl anabl i fyw bywydau mwy We need to identify, with those organisations annibynnol. Mae angen inni ganfod, gyda’r responsible for stations, as well as disability sefydliadau hynny sy’n gyfrifol am groups, the stations that require upgrading orsafoedd, yn ogystal â grwpiau anabledd, y urgently in order to comply with disability gorsafoedd hynny sydd angen eu legislation. We also need to use UK huwchraddio ar frys er mwyn cydymffurfio â Government money to do that. The previous deddfwriaeth anabledd. Mae angen inni hefyd UK Government had a ‘Railways for All’ defnyddio arian Llywodraeth y DU i wneud strategy, under which £370 million was set hynny. Roedd gan Lywodraeth flaenorol y aside to improve access to Britain’s stations DU strategaeth ‘Rheilffyrdd i Bawb’, lle over the next 10 years, including a pot of £7 neilltuwyd £370 miliwn i wella mynediad i million to revamp smaller railway stations. orsafoedd Prydain dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf, As I understand it, only a small proportion of gan gynnwys swm o £7 miliwn i ailwampio that money has been bid for and spent in gorsafoedd rheilffyrdd llai o faint. Fel y Wales, and it will be interesting if, in his deallaf, dim ond cyfran fechan o’r arian response, the Minister could tell us how hwnnw y gwnaethpwyd cais amdano a’i much money has been spent in Wales to date gwariwyd yng Nghymru, a bydd yn and what bids are in the pipeline. ddiddorol os, yn ei ymateb, gallai’r Gweinidog ddweud wrthym faint o arian a wariwyd yng Nghymru hyd yn hyn a pha geisiadau sydd ar y gweill.
I know that upgrading our railway stations is Gwn nad yw uwchraddio ein gorsafoedd not easy and there are many historic factors rheilffordd yn hawdd a bod nifer o ffactorau to contend with. Many of the railway stations hanesyddol i ymdopi â nhw. Mae nifer o’r
64 21/09/2011 and bridges are fairly ancient. However, gorsafoedd rheilffordd a phontydd yn eithaf given the requirements under the Disability hen. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried y gofynion o Discrimination Act 2005, it is important that dan y Ddeddf Gwahaniaethu ar Sail we ensure that more money comes to Wales Anabledd 2005, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn under this scheme to allow smaller railway sicrhau bod mwy o arian yn dod i Gymru o stations throughout Wales to be upgraded so dan y cynllun hwn i ganiatáu gorsafoedd that people with disabilities can access the rheilffyrdd llai o faint ledled Cymru i gael eu railway platforms. huwchraddio fel y gall pobl ag anableddau gael mynediad at y platfformau rheilffordd.
Ann Jones: I chaired the Committee on Ann Jones: Fe wnes i gadeirio’r Pwyllgor Equality of Opportunity in the last Assembly Cyfle Cyfartal yn y Cynulliad diwethaf a that produced the report that I believe has gynhyrchodd yr adroddiad y credaf wnaeth prompted the Conservatives to put forward ysgogi’r Ceidwadwyr i gyflwyno’r cynnig this motion today. Members who sat on that hwn heddiw. Bydd Aelodau a oedd ar y committee will remember our frustration that pwyllgor hwnnw yn cofio ein the responsibility for the issues where change rhwystredigaeth bod y cyfrifoldeb am y was most needed lay with others, not with the materion lle’r oedd mawr angen newid yn Welsh Government. However, that is not to aros gydag eraill ac nid gyda Llywodraeth say that the Welsh Government cannot look Cymru. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny i to make some improvements to make ddweud na all Lywodraeth Cymru edrych i transport accessible to others. A key wneud rhai gwelliannau i wneud trafnidiaeth recommendation accepted by the yn hygyrch i eraill. Argymhelliad allweddol a Government last year was that it should dderbyniwyd gan y Llywodraeth y llynedd incorporate station accessibility issues into oedd y dylid ymgorffori materion the specification for the next round of the hygyrchedd gorsafoedd yn y fanyleb ar gyfer Wales and borders franchise. It was y rownd nesaf o fasnachfraint Cymru a’r encouraging that the Government accepted gororau. Yr oedd yn galonogol fod y that recommendation, but could you tell me Llywodraeth wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad whether you have an update on that, hwnnw, ond a allech ddweud wrthyf a oes Minister? The principle behind this is that the gennych ddiweddariad ar hynny, Weinidog? train operators are responsible for Yr egwyddor sy’n sail i hyn yw bod y accessibility and for the safety of passengers, gweithredwyr trenau yn gyfrifol am regardless of disability. Currently, operators hygyrchedd a diogelwch teithwyr, beth are failing on that front. That reality is made bynnag fo’u hanabledd. Ar hyn o bryd, mae all the more galling when you consider the gweithredwyr yn methu yn hynny o beth. drastic fare increases that have just been Mae realiti hwnnw yn fwy poenus pan announced and that have been announced rydych yn ystyried y cynnydd llym yn y over recent years. prisiau sydd newydd gael eu cyhoeddi ac a gyhoeddwyd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf.
Most Members who have spoken have Mae’r rhan fwyaf o Aelodau sydd wedi mentioned Rhyl railway station. Therefore, siarad wedi crybwyll gorsaf reilffordd y Members will forgive me for also mentioning Rhyl. Felly, bydd Aelodau yn maddau imi am it, as it is in my constituency. You are right ei chrybwyll hefyd, gan ei bod yn fy that there have been issues there. Many of us etholaeth i. Yr ydych yn iawn fod problemau can talk about people that we have met while wedi bodoli yno. Gall lawer ohonom sôn am travelling. Members from the last Assembly y bobl hynny yr ydym wedi cwrdd â nhw will no doubt recall my own knight in shining wrth deithio. Bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad armour, Mr Darren Millar—it is the only diwethaf yn cofio fy marchog dewr fy hun, thing I pay tribute to him for—who helped Mr Darren Millar—dyna’r unig beth y talaf
65 21/09/2011 me when I had problems getting off a train. I deyrnged iddo amdano— a wnaeth fy helpu do not regard myself as someone with a huge pan gefais broblemau’n mynd oddi ar drên. disability, but I had problems getting off the Nid wyf yn ystyried fy hun fel rhywun sydd train. Were it not for Darren, I would still be ag anabledd enfawr, ond cefais broblemau sitting on that train, travelling back and forth wrth fynd oddi ar y trên. Oni bai am Darren, between Holyhead and Cardiff and never able byddwn yn dal i fod yn eistedd ar y trên to get off at Rhyl. hwnnw, yn teithio yn ôl ac ymlaen rhwng Caergybi a Chaerdydd a byth yn gallu mynd oddi arno yn y Rhyl.
The serious issue behind that incident was Y mater difrifol a oedd yn sail i’r digwyddiad staff training. No guard came along to see hwnnw oedd hyfforddiant staff. Ni ddaeth why the door was still open, or to check unrhyw gard i weld pam oedd y drws yn dal i whether anybody was in difficulty. fod ar agor, neu i wirio a oedd unrhyw un yn Eventually, we did get off the train. Darren cael anhawster. Yn y pen draw, cawsom oddi escaped unhurt; I did not fall on him with my ar y trên. Fe wnaeth Darren ddianc yn huge weight, and he lives to tell the tale. ddianaf; ni syrthiais arno ef gyda fy mhwysau However, people travelling alone could find enfawr, ac mae’n byw i ddweud y stori. Fodd themselves in a situation where they do not bynnag, gallai pobl sy’n teithio ar ben eu have a knight in shining armour. I am hunain ganfod eu hunain mewn sefyllfa lle advocating that Darren should perhaps sit on nad oes ganddynt farchog dewr. Yr wyf yn trains across Wales, helping people on and argymell y dylai Darren efallai eistedd ar off, rather than sit in this Chamber. drenau ledled Cymru, yn helpu pobl arnynt ac [Laughter.] oddi arnynt, yn hytrach nag eistedd yn y Siambr hon. [Chwerthin.]
It is encouraging to see that the Welsh Mae’n galonogol gweld bod cynllun Government’s national transport plan seeks trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol Llywodraeth Cymru to involve disabled people in shaping yn ceisio cynnwys pobl anabl wrth lunio services. More could be done to promote that. gwasanaethau. Gellid gwneud mwy i As has been said, many stations are very hyrwyddo hynny. Fel y dywedwyd, mae nifer unfriendly to people with a disability. o orsafoedd yn anghyfeillgar iawn tuag at However, we then got involved in bobl ag anabledd. Fodd bynnag, aethom grandfather rights, and then we discussed wedyn i mewn i hawliau taid, ac yna whether as the Committee on Equality of trafodwyd p’un a ddylem, fel y Pwyllgor Opportunity we should be talking about Cyfle Cyfartal, fod yn siarad am hawliau nain grandmother rights or grandparent rights. The neu hawliau teidiau a neiniau. Roedd y mater whole issue was very frustrating. We knew cyfan yn rhwystredig iawn. Gwyddem fod that we wanted to change the way in which arnom eisiau newid y ffordd y gall pobl people can travel, but often it was not within deithio, ond yn aml nid oedd o fewn ein our power. pŵer.
The Government has introduced a Wales Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi cyflwyno cynllun station improvement plan plus and has put a gwella gorsafoedd Cymru a mwy ac mae lot of money into doing stations up. wedi cyfrannu llawer o arian tuag at However, you can be damned if you do and ailwampio gorsafoedd. Fodd bynnag, nid oes damned if you do not. I refer you to another ennill. Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at orsaf reilffordd arall railway station in my constituency, Prestatyn. yn fy etholaeth, Prestatyn. Mae gwaith ar Work on access for disabled people is now fynediad i bobl anabl bellach yn cael ei being done there, but people are contacting wneud yno, ond mae pobl yn cysylltu â mi i me to say that they do not like it. They say ddweud nad ydynt yn ei hoffi. Maent yn
66 21/09/2011 that it is not right, they do not like the colour, dweud nad yw’n iawn, nad ydynt yn hoffi’r they do not like where the ramp is placed. lliw, ac nad ydynt yn hoffi’r lle rhoddir y They are missing the most important point, ramp. Maent yn methu’r pwynt pwysicaf, sef which is consideration of disabilities. There ystyriaeth o anableddau. Mae llawer o waith is a lot of work to be done in society to i’w wneud mewn cymdeithas i sicrhau bod ensure that people are aware of why work is pobl yn ymwybodol o pam y mae gwaith yn being carried out. cael ei wneud.
Improvements have already been made, but Mae gwelliannau wedi’u gwneud eisoes, ond there is a lot more that we can do. Members mae llawer mwy y gallwn ei wneud. Mae have referred to Swansea, which is a good Aelodau wedi cyfeirio at Abertawe, sydd yn example of disability groups, accessibility enghraifft dda o grwpiau anabledd, grwpiau groups, and others working together. That is hygyrchedd, ac eraill yn cydweithio. Dyna’r the way forward. We must engage with ffordd ymlaen. Rhaid inni gysylltu â phobl. people. We cannot keep telling people that Ni allwn barhau i ddweud wrth bobl ein bod we know what is right. I know what I want yn gwybod beth sy’n iawn. Gwn beth rwyf when I get on a train; I want to know that I eisiau pan af ar drên; yr wyf am wybod y can travel safely to my destination, and get gallaf deithio’n ddiogel i fy nghyrchfannau, a off the train when I get there without gallaf fynd oddi ar y trên pan gaf yno heb inconveniencing too many people. That is not achosi anghyfleustra i ormod o bobl. Nid yw a lot to ask in this world. However, we must hynny’n llawer i’w ofyn yn y byd hwn. Fodd take everyone with us when we do this work. bynnag, mae’n rhaid inni gymryd pawb gyda The rail companies must take some ni pan fyddwn ni’n gwneud y gwaith hwn. responsibility for this: stopping increasing Rhaid i’r cwmnïau rheilffyrdd gymryd their prices until they have ensured rhywfaint o gyfrifoldeb am hyn: byddai atal accessibility for all would be one way cynyddu eu prisiau hyd nes y maent wedi forward, but, unfortunately, we do not have sicrhau hygyrchedd i bawb yn un ffordd the power to ensure that. ymlaen, ond, yn anffodus, nid oes gennym y pŵer i sicrhau hynny.
The Presiding Officer: Order. Did I hear Y Llywydd: Trefn. A wnes i’ch clywed yn you move an amendment that Darren Millar cynnig gwelliant y dylai Darren Millar fod ar should be on a train, or was it just a passing drên, neu ai sylw yn unig oedd hwnnw? comment? [Laughter.] [Chwerthin.]
Ann Jones: I would be happy to move an Ann Jones: Byddwn yn hapus i gynnig amendment that he remains on a train for the gwelliant ei fod yn aros ar drên am y pum next five years. [Laughter.] mlynedd nesaf. [Chwerthin.]
Mark Isherwood: I will not comment on Mark Isherwood: Ni wnaf sylwadau ar that, except to say that Darren is always hynny, dim ond i ddweud bod Darren bob exemplary company on the train, as are you, amser yn gwmni rhagorol ar y trên, fel yr Ann, on the few occasions that I have ydych chi, Ann, ar yr achlysuron prin yr wyf enjoyed the journey with you. I spoke at the wedi mwynhau’r daith gyda chi. Siaradais yn launch of the Action on Hearing Loss ‘Open lansiad adroddiad Action on Hearing Loss, to All?’ report last year, which identified the ‘Open to All?’ y llynedd, a nododd y barriers facing people who are deaf or hard of rhwystrau sy’n wynebu pobl sy’n fyddar hearing in Wales. The research highlighted neu’n drwm eu clyw yng Nghymru. Tynnodd the difficulties that people with hearing loss yr ymchwil sylw at yr anawsterau sy’n face when using public transport. Almost two wynebu pobl sydd wedi colli eu clyw wrth thirds of respondents said that being deaf or ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.
67 21/09/2011 hard of hearing makes it harder to use public Dywedodd bron i ddau draean o’r ymatebwyr transport and that a lack of deaf awareness is fod bod yn fyddar neu’n drwm eu clyw yn ei the main barrier. Participants identified trains gwneud hi’n anoddach i ddefnyddio as being the most difficult mode of public trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ac mai diffyg transport to use. Over a quarter of ymwybyddiaeth o fyddardod yw’r prif respondents said that it is difficult to find rwystr. Nododd y cyfranogwyr mai trenau information before travelling by train, and 42 oedd y modd mwyaf anodd o drafnidiaeth per cent said that it is difficult during the gyhoeddus i ddefnyddio. Dywedodd dros journey. Nearly two thirds of respondents chwarter o’r ymatebwyr ei bod yn anodd dod who use British Sign Language or Sign o hyd i wybodaeth cyn teithio ar drên, a Supported English said that it is difficult to dywedodd 42 y cant ei bod yn anodd yn find information before the journey and ystod y daith. Dywedodd bron i ddau draean nearly three quarters of respondents said that o’r ymatebwyr sy’n defnyddio Iaith it is difficult during the journey. Participants Arwyddion Prydain neu Saesneg a gefnogir raised the need for real-time visual gan arwyddo ei bod yn anodd dod o hyd i information displays in trains and railway wybodaeth cyn y daith a dywedodd bron i dri stations and deaf awareness training for front- chwarter o’r ymatebwyr ei bod yn anodd yn line staff. ystod y daith. Cododd cyfranogwyr yr angen am arddangosfeydd gwybodaeth weledol amser real mewn trenau a gorsafoedd rheilffordd, a hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth o fyddardod ar gyfer staff rheng flaen.
Nearly one in five respondents said that it is Dywedodd bron i un mewn pump o difficult to find information before travelling ymatebwyr ei bod yn anodd dod o hyd i by bus or coach, and nearly three in 10 said wybodaeth cyn teithio ar fws neu goets, a that it is difficult to get information during dywedodd bron i dri o bob 10 ei bod yn the journey. Younger participants, in anodd cael gwybodaeth yn ystod y daith. particular, identified a lack of deaf awareness Nododd gyfranogwyr iau, yn benodol, among bus drivers and stated that their ddiffyg ymwybyddiaeth o fyddardod ymhlith resulting attitudes towards passengers who gyrwyr bysiau ac fe wnaethant ddatgan bod are deaf or hard of hearing is a barrier. Buses eu hagweddau, yn deillio o hynny, tuag at on main routes have started using visual signs deithwyr sy’n fyddar neu’n drwm eu clyw yn but this tends to be restricted to the main rhwystr. Mae bysiau ar brif lwybrau wedi cities and towns and should be rolled out to dechrau defnyddio arwyddion gweledol ond other urban and rural areas. One fifth of mae hyn yn tueddu i fod yn gyfyngedig i brif respondents said that it is difficult to find ddinasoedd a threfi a dylid ei gyflwyno i information before travelling by taxi or mini ardaloedd trefol a gwledig eraill. Dywedodd cab, while over a quarter said that it is un o bob pump o ymatebwyr ei bod yn anodd difficult to get information during the dod o hyd i wybodaeth cyn teithio mewn journey. tacsi neu gab mini, tra dywedodd dros chwarter ei bod yn anodd cael gwybodaeth yn ystod y daith.
Action on Hearing Loss has been working Mae Action on Hearing Loss wedi bod yn with other partners on guidance for public gweithio gyda phartneriaid eraill ar transport operators. It is hoped that the Welsh ganllawiau ar gyfer gweithredwyr Government will be issuing that soon—and I trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Y gobaith yw y bydd hope that the Minister will tell us more about Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyhoeddi hynny cyn that later on. Its key focus has been on the bo hir—a gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn need for public-facing staff to be given deaf dweud mwy wrthym am hynny yn
68 21/09/2011 awareness training and the need for all ddiweddarach. Bu ei ffocws allweddol ar yr information systems to be accessible, but angen i staff sy’n delio â’r cyhoedd gael particularly live travel information: transport hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth o fyddardod, operators tend to use tannoy announcements a’r angen am yr holl systemau gwybodaeth i for train changes, platform announcements fod yn hygyrch, ond yn enwedig y wybodaeth and so on. As a standard, this should be deithio byw: mae gweithredwyr cludiant yn provided by audio and visual means that meet tueddu i ddefnyddio cyhoeddiadau the needs of people with hearing and sight uchelseinydd ar gyfer newidiadau trên, loss. We have heard references to the cyhoeddiadau platfform ac ati. Fel rheol, Multiple Sclerosis Society Cymru: it has dylid darparu hyn drwy ddulliau gweledol a advised that although previous Welsh chlywedol sy’n diwallu anghenion pobl sydd Governments have invested in new train wedi colli eu clyw a golwg. Yr ydym wedi routes, added additional track on certain clywed cyfeiriadau at Multiple Sclerosis lines, widened platforms and, in 2003, Society Cymru a wnaeth gynghori, er bod invested over £2 million in improving a Llywodraethau blaenorol Cymru wedi number of railway stations in south and mid buddsoddi mewn llwybrau trên newydd, rhoi Wales, none of that investment was targeted trac ychwanegol ar rai llinellau, wedi lledu at improving access. Although the Railways platfformau ac, yn 2003, wedi buddsoddi Act 2005 gave the Welsh Government dros £2 filiwn i wella nifer o orsafoedd specific responsibilities that apply to all rail rheilffordd yn y de a’r canolbarth, nid oedd users, including disabled people, MS Society un o’r buddsoddiadau hynny wedi’u targedu research has found, as we heard from Rhodri at wella mynediad. Er y gwnaeth y Ddeddf Glyn, that only 8 per cent of railway stations Rheilffyrdd 2005 roi cyfrifoldebau penodol i in Wales are completely disabled friendly— Lywodraeth Cymru sy’n berthnasol i holl that is, 16 out of 222 have wheelchair access ddefnyddwyr y rheilffyrdd, gan gynnwys to the platform, accessible toilets and pobl anabl, canfu ymchwil y gymdeithas wheelchair access to the train. That means sglerosis ymledol, fel rydym wedi clywed that 206 do not. gan Rhodri Glyn, bod dim ond 8 y cant o orsafoedd rheilffordd yng Nghymru yn gwbl anabl gyfeillgar—hynny yw, mae gan 16 o 222 mynediad cadair olwyn i’r llwyfan, toiledau hygyrch a mynediad cadair olwyn i’r trên. Mae hynny’n golygu nad oes gan 206 ohonynt.
Disabled athlete and former Wrexham Sports Mae athletwr anabl a chyn personoliaeth Personality of the year, Gareth Stafford, chwaraeon y flwyddyn Wrecsam, Gareth travels out from Chirk station, but cannot Stafford, yn teithio allan o orsaf y Waun, ond return there as the accessible platform is on ni all ddychwelyd yno gan fod y platfform the other side of the track on the return hygyrch ar ochr arall y trac ar y daith yn ôl. journey. In fact, Clwyd South was identified Yn wir, nodwyd De Clwyd gan gymdeithas by MS Society Cymru as one of the worst sglerosis ymledol Cymru fel un o’r constituencies for disabled access, with etholaethau gwaethaf ar gyfer mynediad i’r stations being unmanned or lacking disabled anabl, gyda gorsafoedd sydd heb staff neu access to the platform. The 2006 UK ddiffyg mynediad i’r anabl i’r llwyfan. Fe Government document, ‘Railways for All: wnaeth ddogfen Llywodraeth y DU 2006, The Accessibility Strategy for Great Britain’s ‘Railways for All: The Accessibility Strategy Railways’, announced spending on access to for Great Britain’s Railways’ gyhoeddi railways stations, as we heard from Russell gwariant ar fynediad i orsafoedd rheilffyrdd, George earlier. Wales is mentioned and up to fel y clywsom gan Russell George yn £7 million a year was allocated for smaller gynharach. Sonnir am Gymru a dyrannwyd
69 21/09/2011 stations across the UK. If the £7 million a hyd at £7 miliwn y flwyddyn ar gyfer year investment had been allocated according gorsafoedd llai o faint ledled y DU. Os yw’r to population or the Barnett Formula, at least buddsoddiad o £7 miliwn y flwyddyn wedi’i £1 million would have been spent on Welsh ddyrannu yn ôl poblogaeth neu’r fformiwla railways stations over three years. However, Barnett, byddai o leiaf £1 miliwn wedi’i a Research Service inquiry revealed that only wario ar orsafoedd rheilffyrdd Cymru dros £403,000 had been spent in Wales. This did dair blynedd. Fodd bynnag, datgelodd fund improvements to stations, including ymchwiliad y Gwasanaeth Ymchwil mai dim Wrexham Central and Prestatyn stations, and ond £403,000 oedd wedi’i wario yng I also welcome news that disabled access to Nghymru. Fe wnaeth hwn ariannu platform 4 at Wrexham General will be gwelliannau i orsafoedd, gan gynnwys completed by the end of the year. However, gorsafoedd Wrecsam Canolog a Phrestatyn, a as this month’s Equality and Human Rights chroesawaf hefyd newyddion y caiff Commission report, ‘Hidden in Plain Sight’, mynediad i’r anabl i lwyfan 4 yn Wrecsam states, Cyffredinol ei gwblhau erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn. Fodd bynnag, fel y mae adroddiad y Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol, ‘Hidden in Plain Sight’, yn datgan y mis hwn,
‘Disabled people told us travelling on public Mae pobl anabl wedi dweud wrthym fod transport is a ‘hot spot’ where incidents of teithio ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn ‘fan verbal and physical abuse from other poeth’ lle mae achosion o gam-drin geiriol a travellers are commonplace. Sometimes the chorfforol o deithwyr eraill yn gyffredin. abuse came from staff.’ Weithiau daeth y cam-drin gan staff.
As they told the Communities, Equality and Fel y dywedasant wrth y Pwyllgor Local Government Committee this morning, Cymunedau, Cydraddoldeb a Llywodraeth we really need people at the top of Leol y bore yma, mae gwir angen arnom bobl Government and public services to take ar frig Llywodraeth a gwasanaethau leadership, listening to the experts and cyhoeddus i roi arweiniad, gan wrando ar yr disabled people themselves. arbenigwyr a phobl anabl eu hunain.
3.45 p.m.
Keith Davies: Nid wyf am ddweud llawer Keith Davies: I am not going to say much as oherwydd y mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r hyn yr most of what I wanted to say has already oeddwn am ei ddweud eisoes wedi cael ei been discussed. However, one thing drafod. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd un peth yn fy astonished me: in Llanelli station, I asked rhyfeddu: yng ngorsaf Llanelli, gofynnais i Arriva Trains Wales about improving the Arriva Trains Wales wella’r safle ond site, but was told that Network Rail is dywedwyd wrthyf mai Network Rail sy’n responsible for the majority of Wales’s gyfrifol am y rhan fwyaf o orsafoedd railway stations, and that it in turn is rheilffyrdd Cymru, sydd yn atebol yn ei dro answerable to the Government in England. i’r Llywodraeth yn Lloegr. Felly, os ydym So, if we want improved railway stations, we am wella gorsafoedd rheilffyrdd, mae’n rhaid will have to increase the pressure on the inni roi rhagor o bwysau ar y Llywodraeth yn Government in London. As it is the Llundain. Gan mai’r Ceidwadwyr sydd wedi Conservatives who have moved this motion, cyflwyno’r cynnig, mae’n ddyledus arnynt the onus is on them to press the Government wasgu ar y Llywodraeth yn Llundain. in London.
Mick Antoniw: I find myself in a strange Mick Antoniw: Caf fy hun mewn sefyllfa position as a lawyer of saying that most of ryfedd fel cyfreithiwr o ddweud bod y rhan
70 21/09/2011 what I wanted to say has already been said— fwyaf o’r hyn yr oeddwn am ei ddweud there is very little to add. I give my warmest eisoes wedi’i ddweud—ychydig iawn sydd support to the whole thrust of the resolution. i’w ychwanegu. Rhoddaf fy nghefnogaeth wresog i holl fyrdwn y penderfyniad.
The Presiding Officer: Wow, thank you. Y Llywydd: Waw, diolch. [Chwerthin.] [Laughter.]
The Minister for Local Government and Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Communities (Carl Sargeant): I certainly Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Yn sicr, nid was not expecting such brevity, Llywydd. oeddwn i’n disgwyl byrdra o’r fath, Lywydd.
I will start by thanking Members for a Dechreuaf drwy ddiolch i’r Aelodau am thoughtful debate and for taking the motion ddadl feddylgar ac am gymryd y cynnig yn yr in the spirit in which it was intended to spark ysbryd y bwriadwyd i sbarduno dadl. Fodd debate. However, there are issues that I need bynnag, mae materion y mae angen imi to allude to with regard to the technical gyfeirio atynt o ran yr agwedd dechnegol. aspect. Therefore, I will not be able to Felly, ni fyddaf yn gallu cefnogi’r cynnig, ar support the motion, purely on a technical sail dechnegol yn unig. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf basis. However, I am sympathetic to all the yn cydymdeimlo â’r holl fanylion sydd wedi details that have been presented today. eu cyflwyno heddiw.
Let us be clear about a point that the Member Gadewch inni fod yn glir ynghylch y pwynt a for Llanelli raised. The Welsh Government is godwyd gan yr Aelod dros Lanelli. Mae fully committed to our equalities agenda. We Llywodraeth Cymru yn hollol ymrwymedig have a proud record of providing facilities for i’n hagenda cydraddoldebau. Mae gennym disabled people so that they can lead a full hanes balch o ddarparu cyfleusterau i bobl and active life. However, as mentioned today, anabl fel y gallant fyw bywyd llawn a we have difficulties in the financial gweithgar. Fodd bynnag, fel y crybwyllwyd settlement we find ourselves with, and must heddiw, mae gennym anawsterau yn y setliad therefore try to manage to the best of our ariannol sydd o’m blaenau, ac felly mae’n ability with the funding that we have. rhaid i ni geisio ymdopi hyd eithaf ein gallu gyda’r cyllid sydd gennym.
Mark mentioned the Railways Act 2005. I Soniodd Mark am Ddeddf Rheilffyrdd 2005. will just pick out some of the detail. We do Fe wnaf ddewis rhai o’r manylion. Nid oes not have the powers to force Network Rail to gennym y pwerau i orfodi Network Rail i make the 221 stations it owns in Wales fully wneud y 221 o orsafoedd y mae’n berchen accessible. As has been quite rightly brought arnynt yng Nghymru yn gwbl hygyrch. Fel to your attention today, the power lies with sy’n gwbl briodol, tynnwyd eich sylw heddiw Philip Hammond in London. As much as you at y ffaith bod y pŵer yn nwylo Philip have lobbied me on this issue today, perhaps Hammond yn Llundain. Cymaint yr ydych we need collectively to lobby the wedi fy lobïo ar y mater hwn heddiw, efallai Westminster Government to recognise this. fod angen inni lobïo ar y cyd Llywodraeth San Steffan i gydnabod hyn.
When we are involved in redeveloping a Pan fyddwn yn cymryd rhan mewn station, we insist in the integral part of the ailddatblygu gorsaf, mynnwn yn rhan development that it is improved for the annatod y datblygiad bod gwelliannau’n cael accessibility for disabled people. Indeed, eu gwneud ar gyfer hygyrchedd i bobl anabl. Swansea station is being funded under the Yn wir, mae gorsaf Abertawe yn cael ei Wales station improvement programme and it hariannu o dan raglen gwella gorsafoedd is well advanced. The station was designed Cymru ac mae’n mynd rhagddo’n dda. following extensive engagement with local Cynlluniwyd yr orsaf yn dilyn ymgysylltu service users, including representatives from helaeth â defnyddwyr gwasanaeth lleol, gan
71 21/09/2011 disabled groups. Nevertheless, I am gynnwys cynrychiolwyr o grwpiau anabl. concerned that where improvements are Serch hynny, yr wyf yn bryderus, lle mae ongoing, they do not comply with gwelliannau’n mynd rhagddynt, nad ydynt yn accessibility requirements for some disabled cydymffurfio â gofynion hygyrchedd ar gyfer groups. I would invite Members to write to rhai grwpiau anabl. Byddwn yn gwahodd me if they have evidence of this. Therefore, I Aelodau i ysgrifennu ataf os oes ganddynt support the Liberal Democrats’ amendment, dystiolaeth o hyn. Felly, cefnogaf welliant y but I will not support the amended motion at Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, ond ni chefnogaf the end. y cynnig diwygiedig ar y diwedd.
The Wales station improvement programme Mae cynllun grant rhaglen gwella gorsafoedd grant scheme remains open for business— Cymru yn parhau i fod ar agor i fusnes— Russell George mentioned this earlier. soniodd Russell George am hyn yn Recently, a major scheme of improvement gynharach. Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddwyd for accessibility was announced at the cynllun mawr o welliant ar gyfer hygyrchedd Llandudno station in the summer, and I know yng ngorsaf Llandudno yn ystod yr haf, a that the Member is grateful for that funding. gwn fod yr Aelod yn ddiolchgar am y cyllid Another pending application will see hwnnw. Bydd cais arall sydd i ddod yn gweld improved access at rural stations where the gwell mynediad mewn gorsafoedd gwledig step-in height is a problem—many Members lle mae’r uchder camu i mewn yn broblem— have brought this problem to my attention mae sawl Aelod wedi dwyn y broblem hon today. i’m sylw heddiw.
The Welsh Government works closely with Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio’n agos the Department for Transport to secure UK gyda’r Adran Drafnidiaeth i sicrhau arian Government funding, particularly on the Llywodraeth y DU, yn enwedig ar y rhaglen Access for All programme. The national Mynediad i Bawb. Bydd y rhaglen programme will deliver major improvements genedlaethol yn sicrhau gwelliannau mawr in footbridge access, for example at mewn mynediad ar droed, er enghraifft ym Prestatyn—as the Member for Vale of Clwyd Mhrestatyn—fel y soniodd yr Aelod dros mentioned earlier—and at the Abergavenny, Ddyffryn Clwyd yn gynharach—ac yng Bridgend, Wrexham General, Neath, Severn ngorsafoedd y Fenni, Penybont-ar-Ogwr, Tunnel Junction stations. We were pleased to Wrecsam Cyffredinol, Castell-nedd a see the footbridge being placed at Wrexham Chyffordd Twnnel Hafren. Yr oeddem yn General station on 15 September. Therefore, falch o weld y bont droed yn cael ei roi yng we are doing many things within our ngorsaf Wrecsam Cyffredinol ar 15 Medi. responsibility. Clearly, there is more to be Felly, yr ydym yn gwneud llawer o bethau o done with regard to station improvements, fewn ein cyfrifoldeb. Yn amlwg, mae mwy but pressure must be targeted in the right i’w wneud o ran gwella gorsafoedd, ond direction. rhaid targedu pwysau yn y cyfeiriad cywir.
I thank Oscar for his continued lobbying to Diolchaf i Oscar am ei lobïo parhaus i wella improve accessibility on public transport by hygyrchedd ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus gyda’r the use of audio-visual information, as defnydd o wybodaeth clyweledol, fel y mentioned in the second point of the motion. soniwyd yn ail bwynt y cynnig. Byddaf hefyd I would also remind Members that the Public yn atgoffa Aelodau mai cyfrifoldeb Service Vehicles Accessibility Regulations Llywodraeth y DU, unwaith eto, yw’r 2000, which govern the accessibility of local Rheoliadau Hygyrchedd Cerbydau buses, are again the responsibility of the UK Gwasanaeth Cyhoeddus 2000, sy’n Government. llywodraethu hygyrchedd bysiau lleol.
Darren Millar: I appreciate that some of the Darren Millar: Yr wyf yn sylweddoli bod areas of regulatory responsibility lie with gan San Steffan gyfrifoldeb dros rai o’r Westminster, but, for the public sector in meysydd rheoleiddiol, ond, i’r sector Wales, the terms and conditions of contracts cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, mae telerau ac
72 21/09/2011 are another good way of securing amodau contractau yn ffordd dda arall o improvements in accessibility. Is that not sicrhau gwelliannau mewn hygyrchedd. Onid something that could be promoted by the yw hynny’n rhywbeth y gellid ei hyrwyddo Welsh Government at all levels? gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar bob lefel?
Carl Sargeant: You are absolutely right, and Carl Sargeant: Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle, where it is in our regulatory control, or where a lle mae gennym reolaeth rheoleiddio, neu we have powers or levers to influence lle mae gennym bwerau neu ysgogiadau i sectors, then we will do that. I will explain ddylanwadu ar sectorau, yna byddwn yn some of the things that the Welsh gwneud hynny. Byddaf yn egluro rhai o’r Government is doing in areas that are not pethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei devolved. You mentioned Welsh Labour’s wneud mewn meysydd sydd heb eu commitment to improve accessibility, and we datganoli. Soniasoch am ymrwymiad Llafur are delivering on that. The Welsh Cymru i wella hygyrchedd, ac yr ydym yn Government is providing £2 million for a cyflawni hynny. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn fleet of 12 new low-floor, fully accessible darparu £2 miliwn ar gyfer fflyd o 12 o vehicles on the TrawsCymru service through gerbydau llawr isel gwbl hygyrch newydd ar Aberystwyth, Carmarthen, Newtown and y gwasanaeth TrawsCymru drwy Merthyr, and those vehicles will provide Aberystwyth, Caerfyrddin, y Drenewydd a audio-visual announcements for passengers Merthyr, a bydd y cerbydau hynny yn and additional space for wheelchairs and darparu cyhoeddiadau clyweledol ar gyfer guide dogs. We are moving in that direction, teithwyr a lle ychwanegol ar gyfer cadeiriau although never at the pace that we would like olwyn a chŵn tywys. Yr ydym yn symud i’r to deliver these things, purely because of cyfeiriad hwnnw, er byth ar y cyflymdra y finance. byddem yn hoffi i gyflawni’r pethau hyn, ar sail cyllid yn unig.
I would also like to draw attention to the Hoffwn hefyd dynnu sylw at y cynllun concessionary fares scheme administered by tocynnau teithio rhatach sy’n cael ei local authorities, which already allows a weinyddu gan awdurdodau lleol, sydd eisoes companion to travel on the free bus scheme. I yn caniatáu cydymaith i deithio ar y cynllun accept and acknowledge the difficulty where bws am ddim. Rwy’n derbyn ac yn cydnabod someone might require additional carers to yr anhawster lle, efallai, y bydd angen ar travel with them. As the First Minister said, I rywun gofalwyr ychwanegol i deithio gyda am working with local authorities to explore hwy. Fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog, yr the extension of that scheme, but it requires wyf yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i some detailed work on defining eligibility. ystyried ymestyn y cynllun hwnnw, ond mae angen rhywfaint o waith manwl ar ddiffinio cymhwysedd.
Rhodri Glyn referred to staff awareness, and Cyfeiriodd Rhodri Glyn at ymwybyddiaeth we are promoting that. We are keen that, staff, ac yr ydym yn hyrwyddo hynny. where the Welsh Government places a Rydym yn awyddus, lle mae Llywodraeth contract for business, we ensure that training Cymru yn gosod contract ar gyfer busnes, ein standards are adhered to, and that is bod yn sicrhau y glynir wrth safonau something that we would like to develop hyfforddiant, ac mae hynny’n rhywbeth y further. However, again, training standards in byddem yn hoffi datblygu ymhellach. Fodd public transport is an issue that rests with the bynnag, unwaith eto, mae safonau UK Government. Ann Jones mentioned hyfforddiant mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn public transport operators, and again, that has fater sydd yn nwylo’r Llywodraeth y DU. not been devolved. Soniodd Ann Jones am weithredwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, ac eto, nid yw hynny wedi’i ddatganoli.
In short, I am sympathetic to the motion— Yn fyr, yr wyf yn gefnogol o’r cynnig—
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Ann Jones: The key recommendation in the Ann Jones: Argymhelliad allweddol yn report of the previous Committee on Equality adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal of Opportunity was that the Minister for blaenorol oedd y dylai’r Gweinidog dros transport, whoever they may be—it turns out drafnidiaeth, pwy bynnag fyddant—mae’n that it is you, which I am pleased about— debyg mai chi yw ef, ac yr wyf yn falch am should do some work on the next Wales and hynny—gwneud rhywfaint o waith ar y the borders franchise. Do you have an update fasnachfraint Cymru a’r gororau nesaf. A oes on that? Can you provide us with any gennych ddiweddariad ar hynny? A allwch information? Do we need to lobby anyone? chi ddarparu unrhyw wybodaeth i ni? A oes angen arnom lobïo unrhyw un?
Carl Sargeant: I have already got my team Carl Sargeant: Mae gennyf eisoes fy nhîm working on the new franchise that will be in sy’n gweithio ar y fasnachfraint newydd a place for 2018. If we are to go out to a new fydd ar waith ar gyfer 2018. Os ydym i fynd franchise, then we need to start framing that allan i fasnachfraint newydd, yna mae angen now. I will ask my team to engage with inni ddechrau llunio hynny bellach. Gofynnaf disability groups on the important issues of i’m tîm i ymgysylltu â grwpiau anabledd ar access, rolling stock and so on, so that we can faterion pwysig o ran mynediad, cerbydau ac get the best for Wales and our public ati, fel y cawn y gorau ar gyfer Cymru a’n transport service. It is not just trains—the gwasanaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Nid integrated approach to transport is important trenau yn unig ydyw—mae’r dull trafnidiaeth in developing a transport system that is fit for integredig yn bwysig wrth ddatblygu system purpose for the people of Wales. drafnidiaeth sy’n addas i’r diben ar gyfer pobl Cymru.
In short, improved rights for the disabled are Yn fyr, mae gwell hawliau i bobl anabl yn important, and we need to direct this at the bwysig, ac mae angen inni dargedu hyn ar level of Government that has the powers and lefel Llywodraeth sydd â’r pwerau a responsibilities to enforce a change. Despite chyfrifoldebau i orfodi newid. Er gwaethaf our limited powers and responsibilities in this ein pwerau a chyfrifoldebau cyfyngedig yn y area, we do a great deal and will continue to maes hwn, rydym yn gwneud llawer iawn a do so. However, I would ask colleagues byddwn yn parhau i wneud hynny. Fodd across the Chamber to recognise where some bynnag, gofynnaf fy nghydweithwyr ar draws of the legislative responsibility lies, and y Siambr i gydnabod gyda phwy mae peth o’r lobby the appropriate people at Westminster. cyfrifoldeb deddfwriaethol, a lobïo’r bobl briodol yn San Steffan.
Andrew R.T. Davies: I thank everyone who Andrew R.T. Davies: Diolchaf i bawb sydd has contributed to the debate this afternoon, wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl y prynhawn yma, a and I thank the Minister for his response to diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am ei ymateb i’r the debate. I am disappointed that he is ddadl. Yr wyf yn siomedig nad yw’n gallu unable to accept the motion, and I am a little derbyn y cynnig, ac nid wyf yn deall y bemused as to why that is the case. The rheswm am hyn. Cynlluniwyd y cynnig i motion was constructed to encourage annog consensws ar draws y Siambr, i wella consensus across the Chamber, to improve ein cyfleoedd wrth lobïo ar faterion lle our chances when lobbying on issues where gorwedd y pwerau perthnasol mewn mannau the relevant powers reside elsewhere, and to eraill, ac i helpu i wneud y sylwadau hynny. help you make those representations.
The fact that railway stations are not fully Nodwyd y ffaith nad yw gorsafoedd accessible was noted by the committee’s rheilffordd yn gwbl hygyrch gan adroddiad y report, as well as making public transport pwyllgor, yn ogystal â gwneud trafnidiaeth more accessible, which is surely an aspiration gyhoeddus yn fwy hygyrch, sy’n sicr yn that we would all sign up to, along with ddyhead y byddwn oll yn ymrwymo iddo,
74 21/09/2011 extending the companion bus pass and ynghyd ag ymestyn y pas bws cydymaith a promoting training among staff on disabled hyrwyddo hyfforddiant ymhlith staff ar passengers’ requirements. I did not hear the ofynion teithwyr anabl. Ni chlywais y Minister do so, but I am happy to give some Gweinidog yn gwneud felly, ond yr wyf yn of my time to the Minister, if he so wishes, to hapus i roi ychydig o’n hamser i’r explain to me and to other Members the Gweinidog, os yw’n dymuno, i egluro i mi ac specific technical reservations that he has i Aelodau eraill yr amheuon technegol with this motion. As I said, this motion was penodol sydd ganddo ynghylch y cynnig not constructed to be a political motion, as hwn. Fel y dywedais, ni chafodd y cynnig my colleague Byron Davies said in opening hwn ei gynllunio i fod yn gynnig the debate, but to enhance the work gwleidyddol, fel y dywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod undertaken by the Committee on Equality of Byron Davies wrth agor y ddadl, ond i Opportunity in the previous Assembly, under wella’r gwaith a wnaed gan y Pwyllgor Cyfle the chairmanship of Ann Jones. It is Cyfartal yn y Cynulliad blaenorol, o dan opportune at this juncture that we consider gadeiryddiaeth Ann Jones. Mae’n amserol ar that work, because it is virtually 12 months hyn o bryd ein bod yn ystyried y gwaith since the first report of two came forward. I hwnnw, oherwydd mae’n bron 12 mis ers i’r see that the Minister wishes to intervene, and adroddiad cyntaf o ddau ddod gerbron. I am happy to allow it. Gwelaf fod y Gweinidog yn dymuno ymyrryd, ac yr wyf yn hapus i’w ganiatáu.
Carl Sargeant: I thank the Member for Carl Sargeant: Diolch i’r Aelod am ganiatáu allowing me to speak. I hope that I made imi siarad. Gobeithiaf y gwneuthum yn glir clear in my contribution that I am in general yn fy nghyfraniad fy mod yn cytuno, yn agreement with Members across the gyffredinol, gydag Aelodau ar draws y Chamber. I note what the motion calls on the Siambr. Nodaf yr hyn y mae’r cynnig yn Welsh Government to do, but, as I said galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wneud, ond, fel earlier, a lot of the regulation in this matter y dywedais yn gynharach, nid yw llawer o’r does not sit with the Welsh Government, and rheoleiddio yn y mater hwn yn eistedd gyda therefore you are asking me to preside over Llywodraeth Cymru, ac felly yr ydych yn something that is not my responsibility. This gofyn imi i lywyddu rhywbeth nad yw fy is the responsibility of the UK administration, nghyfrifoldeb. Cyfrifoldeb y weinyddiaeth yn and that is purely the technical basis why I y DU yw hyn, ac ar y sail dechnegol honno’n cannot accept the motion. If it was our unig, ni allaf dderbyn y cynnig. Pe bai ein responsibility, then I would welcome this cyfrifoldeb ni ydoedd, yna byddwn i’n motion and support it. However, most of the croesawu’r cynnig hwn ac yn ei gefnogi. regulation on these matters lies with the Fodd bynnag, mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r Westminster Government. rheoleiddio ar y materion hyn yn gorwedd gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan.
Andrew R.T. Davies: I will take you at your Andrew R.T. Davies: Fe wnaf dderbyn eich word, Minister, but I believe that what you gair, Weinidog, ond credaf fod yr hyn a say is somewhat tenuous, because you could ddywedwch yn amheus braidd, oherwydd say that in any field. There is considerable gallech ddweud hynny mewn unrhyw faes. scope for the Welsh Government here, but I Mae cryn gyfle i Lywodraeth Cymru yma, do not want this debate to degenerate into ond nid wyf am i’r ddadl hon ddirywio i falu argy-bargy across the Chamber. awyr ar draws y Siambr.
Ann Jones: I thank the leader of the Tory Ann Jones: Diolchaf i arweinydd y Blaid party for giving way. I said at the beginning Dorïaidd am ildio. Dywedais ar ddechrau fy of my contribution that Members who sat on nghyfraniad fod yr Aelodau a oedd yn eistedd the Committee on Equality of Opportunity ar y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal yn rhannu’r shared the frustration that these matters were rhwystredigaeth nad oedd y materion hyn o outside of our competency, as did the then fewn ein cymhwysedd, fel y gwnaeth y Minister for transport, Ieuan Wyn Jones, and Gweinidog dros drafnidiaeth ar y pryd, Ieuan
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I remember us getting into a huge argument Wyn Jones, ac yr wyf yn cofio inni gael dadl about grandparents’ rights. However, the fawr am hawliau teidiau a neiniau. Fodd current Minister for transport has been very bynnag, mae’r Gweinidog presennol dros accepting of the recommendations in that drafnidiaeth wedi derbyn yr argymhellion yn report. Should we not be working through yr adroddiad hwnnw. Oni ddylem ni fod yn that report to ensure that we achieve those gweithio trwy’r adroddiad hwnnw i sicrhau recommendations and then have your motion ein bod yn cyflawni’r argymhellion hynny ac later on? yna cael eich cynnig chi yn nes ymlaen?
Andrew R.T. Davies: I take your points on Andrew R.T. Davies: Derbyniaf eich board, and I had hoped that the Minister, in pwyntiau, ac yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio y his address today, would touch on some of byddai’r Gweinidog, yn ei anerchiad heddiw, these points, in particular on the use of the yn cyffwrdd ar rai o’r pwyntiau hyn, yn public transport users committee that was to enwedig ar y defnydd o’r pwyllgor be set up and perhaps on the progress that defnyddwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a oedd that committee had made. In addition, the i’w sefydlu, ac efallai ar y cynnydd a wnaed Minister did not refer in his remarks to the gan y pwyllgor hwnnw. Yn ogystal, ni sector skills councils with regard to training, chyfeiriodd y Gweinidog yn ei sylwadau at y and it would have been helpful in gaining cynghorau sgiliau sector o ran hyfforddiant, a more understanding of some of the byddai wedi bod o gymorth i gael mwy o recommendations. However, I accept the ddealltwriaeth o rai o’r argymhellion. Fodd sentiment with which the Minister has spoken bynnag, derbyniaf deimlad y Gweinidog wrth this afternoon. siarad y prynhawn yma.
I thank everyone who has spoken today. Diolch i bawb sydd wedi siarad heddiw. There were some very pertinent Cafwyd rhai cyfraniadau perthnasol iawn, yn contributions, in particular from Rebecca enwedig gan Rebecca Evans, sy’n cyffwrdd Evans, who touched on the unseen ag anableddau nas gwelwyd y mae llawer o disabilities that many people suffer and the bobl yn dioddef ohonynt a’r materion sy’n eu issues that they face. That focused many hwynebu. Fe wnaeth hynny ganolbwyntio Members’ minds, in particular with regard to meddyliau nifer o Aelodau, yn arbennig o ran the security issues that people face at stations. y materion diogelwch y mae pobl yn eu Indeed, the poor quality of the closed circuit hwynebu mewn gorsafoedd. Yn wir, soniwyd television cameras has been touched on in am ansawdd gwael y camerâu teledu cylch this Chamber—the film that is taken cannot cyfyng yn y Siambr hon—ni ellir defnyddio’r be used in many court cases to provide ffilm a gymerir mewn llawer o achosion llys i assistance. We all understand the current roi cymorth. Yr ydym oll yn deall y stringent financial constraints on the public cyfyngiadau ariannol llym presennol ar y purse, but the reality has to be that while only pwrs cyhoeddus, ond mae’n rhaid taw’r limited resources are available, the thinking realiti yw, tra dim ond adnoddau cyfyngedig is there to ensure that these changes can be sydd ar gael, bod y meddylfryd yno i sicrhau made, albeit not within the time frame that y gellir gwneud y newidiadau hyn, er nad o we would like. fewn yr amser y byddem yn hoffi.
Ann Jones touched on an important point in Cyfeiriodd Ann Jones at bwynt pwysig yn ei her contribution when she talked about chyfraniad pan soniodd am orsaf Prestatyn. Prestatyn station. She mentioned how people Soniodd am sut mae pobl yn sôn am olwg comment on the cosmetic look of something, cosmetig rhywbeth, megis golwg y paent ar such as the look of the paint on a ramp, ramp, yn hytrach na meddwl pam fod y ramp instead of thinking about why the ramp is yno yn y lle cyntaf. Soniodd hefyd am greu there in the first place. She also mentioned mwy o gyfleoedd i bobl o bob gallu i creating greater opportunities for people of ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. all abilities to use public transport. Rhodri Amlygodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas, ymhlith Glyn Thomas, among others, highlighted eraill, dystiolaeth heddiw yn y pwyllgor evidence today in committee about how ynghylch sut mae canfyddiad pobl o bobl ag
76 21/09/2011 people’s perception of people with anableddau a’r ymddygiad ymosodol—nid disabilities and the aggression—I do not wyf yn credu bod hynny’n rhy gryf; credaf think that that is too strong a word; I think mai dyna’r hyn y defnyddiodd yn ei that it was the word that he used in his gyfraniad—maent yn dangos tuag at bobl contribution—that they show disabled people anabl am eu bod yn cael eu gweld fel petaent because they are seen as slowing up able- yn arafu teithio pobl abl. Mae’n rhaid i bawb bodied people’s travel. All in society must be mewn cymdeithas fod yn ymwybodol o rôl aware of the role of education and the level addysg a lefel y ddealltwriaeth sydd ei angen. of understanding that is needed.
4.00 p.m.
Many of my colleagues in the Conservative Fe wnaeth lawer o’m cyd-Aelodau yn y grŵp group, such as William Graham, Russell Ceidwadol, fel William Graham, Russell George, Mark Isherwood and Oscar, George, Mark Isherwood ac Oscar gyfrannu contributed very valuable points, in pwyntiau gwerthfawr iawn, yn arbennig am particular about the UK fund of £7 million gronfa’r DU o £7 miliwn a sefydlwyd rai that was set up some years ago. Mark blynyddoedd yn ôl. Soniodd Mark Isherwood Isherwood in particular touched on that, yn benodol am hynny, a chyfeiriodd at y cais referring to the request for information from am wybodaeth gan y Gwasanaeth Ymchwil. the Research Service. It showed that, Dangosodd, er bod gennym y potensial i although we had the potential to secure in the sicrhau tua £1 miliwn, dim ond tua £400,000 region of £1 million, only around £400,000 ddaeth i Gymru i greu mannau hygyrch mewn came to Wales to create accessible points at gorsafoedd. Onid oes rôl ar gyfer y stations. Surely there is a role for Llywodraeth yn hybu defnydd o gronfeydd lle Government in promoting the uptake of maent ar gael, er fy mod yn derbyn ein bod yn funds where they are available, although I do wynebu cyfyngiadau ariannol? accept that we face financial constraints.
The ability to pull these issues together Ni ellir tanbrisio’r gallu i dynnu’r materion cannot be underestimated. The quality of the hyn at ei gilydd. Mae ansawdd gwaith y work of the previous committee on this issue pwyllgor blaenorol ar y mater hwn yn is critical in informing you, Minister, and us hollbwysig o ran rhoi gwybod i chi, as Members, for our role in lobbying Weinidog, a ni fel Aelodau, ar gyfer ein rôl Ministers in another place, and in making wrth lobïo Gweinidogion mewn lle arall, ac sure that we make improvements for the wrth sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud gwelliannau benefit of people who have disabilities. er budd pobl sydd ag anableddau. Ni all There can be nothing more frustrating for unrhyw beth fod yn fwy rhwystredig i rywun someone than to feel vulnerable because one nag i deimlo’n agored i niwed gan na allant part of their journey cannot be concluded. gwblhau un rhan o’u taith. Rydym yn We focus on the railways, but the buses are canolbwyntio ar y rheilffyrdd, ond mae equally important, as are the taxis that get the bysiau’r un mor bwysig, fel y mae’r tacsis person to the station. Training is also sy’n cael y person i’r orsaf. Mae hefyd angen required. hyfforddiant.
I would highlight, from personal experience, Byddwn i’n amlygu, o brofiad personol, the appalling state of Cardiff Central bus gyflwr echrydus terfynfa bws Caerdydd terminus. The Welsh Government does have Canolog. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru rôl i’w a role to play in that respect through chwarae yn hynny o beth drwy arian trefi sustainable towns money. Even if you are cynaliadwy. Hyd yn oed os ydych yn abl, able-bodied, the mess that is Cardiff Central byddai llanastr gorsaf bws Caerdydd Canolog bus station would put anyone off travelling yn gwneud i unrhyw un i beidio â dymuno on public transport. I hope that the Minister teithio ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Gobeithiaf will focus on making sure that improvements y bydd y Gweinidog yn canolbwyntio ar are driven through for the benefit of all wneud yn siŵr bod gwelliannau yn cael eu
77 21/09/2011 communities. I hope that he will reflect on rhoi ar waith er budd pob cymuned. his position on the motion and that, at a later Gobeithiaf y bydd ef yn adlewyrchu ar ei moment, he might consider supporting it. safbwynt ar y cynnig ac, ar adeg However, I doubt that I will manage to ddiweddarach, efallai y bydd yn ystyried ei change his mind. gefnogi. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn amau y byddaf yn llwyddo i newid ei feddwl.
The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar y cynnig agree the motion without amendment. Does heb ei ddiwygio. A yw unrhyw Aelod yn any Member object? I see that there are gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod gwrthwynebiadau. objections. Therefore, I shall defer all voting Felly, byddaf yn gohirio pob pleidlais ar yr on this item until voting time. eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Voting deferred until voting time.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Melding) i’r Gadair am 4.02 p.m. The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Melding) took the Chair at 4.02 p.m.
Dadl Plaid Cymru Plaid Cymru Debate
Cyllid Funding
The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol selected amendments 1 and 4 in the name of gwelliannau 1 a 4 yn enw William Graham, William Graham, amendments 2, 5 and 6 in gwelliannau 2, 5 a 6 yn enw Peter Black, a the name of Peter Black, and amendment 3 gwelliant 3 yn enw Jane Hutt. Os derbynnir in the name of Jane Hutt. If amendment 1 is gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-dethol. agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. If Os derbynnir gwelliant 4, bydd gwelliant 5 yn amendment 4 is agreed, amendment 5 will be cael ei ddad-dethol. deselected.
Cynnig NDM4800 Jocelyn Davies Motion NDM4800 Jocelyn Davies
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Yn nodi: 1. Notes: a) Y toriadau difrifol yn y cyllid cyfalaf sydd a) The severe cuts in capital funding ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru; available to the Welsh government; b) Y diffyg gweithredu a fu gan Lywodraeth b) The lack of action taken by the current gyfredol Cymru i ganfod a denu ffynonellau Welsh government to identify and attract new newydd o gyllid i Gymru; ac sources of funding to Wales; and c) Effeithiau’r hinsawdd economaidd c) The effects of the current economic climate, bresennol, gan gynnwys yr anawsterau sy’n including the difficulties faced by Welsh wynebu busnesau Cymru oherwydd yr businesses due to slowing global conditions amodau byd-eang sy’n arafu a’r bygythiadau and resulting threats to jobs; and i swyddi yn sgil hynny; a
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2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i: 2. Calls on the Welsh government to: a) Mynd ati’n rhagweithiol i chwilio am a) Proactively seek out additional funding ffrydiau ariannu ychwanegol i Gymru yn yr streams for Wales as governments of other un modd ag y mae llywodraethau gwledydd devolved nations have done; datganoledig eraill wedi’i wneud; b) Gweithio gyda’r sector cyhoeddus yng b) Work with the Welsh public sector to Nghymru i gyflwyno newidiadau i arferion urgently bring forward changes to caffael ar frys er mwyn ysgogi diwydiant a procurement practises in order to stimulate chreu swyddi yng Nghymru; a industry and job creation in Wales; and c) Chyflwyno sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU i c) Make representation to the UK government gyflwyno toriad dros dro mewn TAW er to introduce a temporary cut in VAT in order mwyn ysgogi twf economaidd ymhellach. to further stimulate economic growth.
Ieuan Wyn Jones: Cynigiaf y cynnig. Ieuan Wyn Jones: I move the motion.
Byddaf yn cyfeirio at y sefyllfa gyllidol a’r I will be referring to the financial situation sefyllfa economaidd gyffredinol, a bydd and the general economic situation, and Alun Alun Ffred Jones, llefarydd y blaid ar yr Ffred Jones, the party spokesperson on the economi, yn trafod y polisi caffael a’r polisi economy, will be discussing procurement treth ar werth. Bydd hefyd yn trafod y policy and the policy on value added tax. He gwelliannau. will also deal with the amendments.
Credaf ein bod i gyd yn derbyn bod y I think that we all accept that the economic sefyllfa economaidd sy’n wynebu Cymru a’r situation that Wales and the world are facing byd yn hynod fregus. Mae’n fwy bregus is very fragile. It is even more fragile today heddiw nag ydoedd hyd yn oed ychydig than it was a few months ago when we were fisoedd yn ôl pan oeddem yn ymladd campaigning for the Welsh general election. etholiad cyffredinol Cymru. Mae’r The Minister for Finance has referred to the Gweinidog Cyllid wedi cyfeirio at adroddiad IMF report that says that we are in a new and yr IMF sy’n dweud ein bod mewn cyfnod dangerous situation—a ‘dangerous new newydd peryglus—y geiriau a ddefnyddiodd phase’, as it put it. It said, for example, that it oedd ‘dangerous new phase’. Dywedodd, er expects the United Kingdom’s economy to enghraifft, ei bod yn disgwyl i economi’r grow 1.1 per cent this year and 1.6 per cent Deyrnas Gyfunol dyfu 1.1 y cant eleni ac 1.6 next year. If you compare those figures with y cant y flwyddyn nesaf. Os ydych yn the figures that we were expecting, you will cymharu’r ffigurau hynny â’r ffigurau yr see that there has been quite a shocking oeddem yn eu disgwyl, fe welwch fod change. As I explained to the First Minister gwahaniaeth eithaf syfrdanol. Fel yr eglurais yesterday, Alistair Darling was saying in wrth y Prif Weinidog ddoe, yr oedd Alistair 2009 that he expected growth of about 3.5 per Darling yn dweud yn 2009 ei fod yn disgwyl cent this year and 2.3 per cent next year. twf o tua 3.5 y cant eleni a 2.3 y cant y Therefore, something serious has happened to flwyddyn nesaf. Felly, mae rhywbeth difrifol our economic situation. wedi digwydd i’n sefyllfa economaidd.
Ynghyd â’r ffigurau ar gyfer y sefyllfa fyd- Side by side with the figures for the global eang, mae’r ffigurau ar gyfer Cymru hefyd situation, the figures for Wales also show that yn dangos ein bod mewn sefyllfa we are in a critical situation. We see that argyfyngus. Gwelwn fod y ffigurau unemployment has been rising steadily since diweithdra wedi bod yn codi’n gyson ers mis February this year: the figure currently stands Chwefror eleni: ar hyn o bryd, y ffigur yw at 8.4 per cent and almost a quarter of our 8.4 y cant ac mae bron i chwarter ein pobl young people between 16 and 24 years of age ifanc rhwng 16 a 24 oed yn ddi-waith. Un are unemployed. One figure that illustrates the
79 21/09/2011 ffigur sy’n dangos methiant o ran cael twf yn failure to secure economic growth is the yr economi yw nifer y bobl sy’n ddi-waith number of people who are unemployed for am gyfnod hwy na chwe mis. Mae corddi more than six months. There is a serious difrifol yn yr economi, hyd yn oed mewn churn in the economy even in a period of cyfnod o ddirwasgiad; fodd bynnag, pan fo recession; however, when there is an increase twf yn nifer y bobl sydd yn ddi-waith am in the number of people who are unemployed gyfnod hwy na chwe mis—y rheini sy’n for more than six months—those who are economically inactive—rhaid inni gymryd economically inactive—we must pay sylw o hynny. attention to that.
Yn naturiol, ychydig y gall y Llywodraeth Naturally, there is little that this Government hon ei wneud i wrthsefyll y problemau sy’n can do to withstand the problems that are wynebu’r economi ar draws y byd. Mae’r facing the global economy. The IMF has IMF yn cadarnhau bod peryglon oherwydd confirmed that there are dangers due to the argyfwng dyled yr eurozone a natur fregus debt crisis in the eurozone and the fragile economi’r Unol Daleithiau. Fodd bynnag, yn state of the United States’ economy. ychwanegol at y problemau y bu inni eu However, in addition to the problems that we hwynebu yn 2008, 2009 a 2010—ac yr faced in 2008, 2009 and 2010—and they were oeddent hwy yn ddigon gwael—mae’r bad enough—the situation is even worse sefyllfa hyd yn oed yn waeth heddiw today because the cuts in public expenditure oherwydd bod y toriadau mewn gwariant are starting to bite. The loss of jobs is cyhoeddus yn dechrau brathu. Mae colli inevitable as a result of the deficit reduction swyddi yn gwbl anorfod yn sgîl rhaglen programme, and we have heard today that the lleihau’r diffyg, ac yr ydym wedi clywed United Kingdom Government is going to heddiw fod Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol stick to its programme; therefore, we have yn mynd i gadw at ei rhaglen, felly mae less money in real terms for local gennym lai o arian mewn termau real i government, less money available for the lywodraeth leol, llai o arian ar gyfer y health boards and less money available to byrddau iechyd a llai o arian i gyflogi employ teachers and so on. Therefore, we will athrawon ac yn y blaen. Felly, byddwn yn see a reduction in the private sector and the gweld cwtogiad yn y sector preifat a’r fwyell axe falling on public expenditure. yn syrthio ar wariant cyhoeddus.
Pan gyfeiriodd Llywodraeth San Steffan at y When the Westminster Government referred toriadau mewn gwariant cyhoeddus, to cuts in public expenditure, it said that the dywedodd y byddai’r economi’n tyfu i economy will grow to take up some of the gymryd rhan o’r slac hwnnw. Y gwir yw na slack. The truth is that that will not happen. fydd hynny’n digwydd. Felly, byddwn yn Therefore, we will be losing jobs in the public colli swyddi yn y sector cyhoeddus ar ben yr sector on top of what is happening in the hyn sydd yn digwydd yn yr economi yn economy as a whole. As the private sector is gyffredinol. Gan nad yw’r sector preifat yn not creating jobs, the unemployment figures, creu swyddi, bydd diweithdra, sydd eisoes which are already high, will grow further. We yn uchel, yn codi yn uwch o lawer. Mae’n have to face this situation and accept that rhaid inni wynebu’r sefyllfa hon a derbyn something has to give. We cannot carry on bod yn rhaid i rywbeth ddigwydd. Ni fedrwn with our current policy. barhau gyda’n polisi presennol.
Yr oedd y drafodaeth a gawsom ddoe The discussion that we had yesterday was a ychydig yn ffals. little false.
We had a discussion yesterday on some Cawsom drafodaeth ddoe ar rai pwyntiau fairly narrow points about what is happening eithaf cul ynghylch beth sy’n digwydd i’r to the economy. We have to be realistic. I economi. Rhaid inni fod yn realistig. Deallaf understand the disappointment about the fact y siom ynghylch y ffaith nad yw Jaguar yn that Jaguar is not coming to Wales, but the dod i Gymru, ond y gwir amdani yw yr oedd
80 21/09/2011 reality is that it was always a small chance wastad yn gyfle bychan y byddai’n gwneud that it would do so—I would put it at hynny—byddwn i’n ei roi ar rhwng 10 y cant between 10 per cent and 20 per cent. It was a 20 y cant. Yr oedd yn hollol iawn y gwnaeth absolutely right that the officials and the y swyddogion a’r Gweinidog weithio’n galed Minister worked hard to attract Jaguar to i ddenu Jaguar i Gymru, ond yr oedd wastad Wales, but it was always going to be a long yn mynd i fod yn annhebygol. Fodd bynnag, shot for us. However, the announcement on ymddengus bod y cyhoeddiadau ar y parthau the enterprise zones had all of the hallmarks menter wedi cael eu rhuthro ac of being rushed out and appeared to me to be ymddangoswyd i mi fel ymarfer rheoli a news-management exercise rather than a newyddion yn hytrach na ffordd o gyhoeddi’r way of announcing a firm policy, because polisi cadarn, oherwydd mae llawer o many questions still need to be answered. gwestiynau i’w hateb. Efallai y gallai’r Perhaps the Minister could clarify that point. Gweinidog egluro’r pwynt hwnnw.
I hope that, today, we can look beyond those Gobeithiaf, heddiw, y gallwn edrych y tu narrow issues and concentrate on the big hwnt i’r materion cul hynny a chanolbwyntio picture facing the Welsh economy. I was ar y darlun ehangach sy’n wynebu economi disappointed by the First Minister’s response Cymru. Cefais fy siomi gan ymateb y Prif yesterday, because I am absolutely certain Weinidog ddoe, oherwydd yr wyf yn gwbl that the Welsh Government must have a plan sicr bod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru gael B to deal with these exceptional cynllun amgen i ddelio â’r amgylchiadau circumstances. The Scots have what they call eithriadol hyn. Mae gan yr Albanwyr yr hyn a a ‘plan Mac-B’; Wales should have a ‘plan alwant yn ‘cynllun Mac-B’; Dylai fod gan ap-B’. That is absolutely clear to me. John Gymru ‘cynllun ap-B’. Mae hynny’n gwbl Swinney, the Minister for finance in glir i mi. Mae John Swinney, y Gweinidog Scotland, is today announcing a package of dros gyllid yn yr Alban, heddiw yn cyhoeddi infrastructure projects. The Welsh pecyn o brosiectau seilwaith. Mae angen i Government needs to announce its Lywodraeth Cymru gyhoeddi ei gynllun infrastructure plan. The Minister for Finance seilwaith. Dywedodd y Gweinidog Cyllid told me today that that is in the offing, but it wrthyf heddiw bod hynny yn yr arfaeth, ond is now urgent. That infrastructure plan has to bellach, mae’n fater brys. Mae’n rhaid i’r be published. cynllun seilwaith hwnnw gael ei gyhoeddi.
We must also look for ways to attract capital Rhaid inni edrych hefyd am ffyrdd i ddenu from outside the block grant. If we rely on cyfalaf o’r tu allan i’r grant bloc. Os ydym yn the block for that infrastructure programme, dibynnu ar y bloc hwnnw ar gyfer y rhaglen nothing will happen. By 2015, 45 per cent of seilwaith, ni fyddai dim byd yn digwydd. our money will have gone. In the current Erbyn 2015, bydd 45 y cant o’n harian ni circumstances, we cannot shield Wales from wedi mynd. Dan yr amgylchiadau presennol, the impact of the recession by building our ni allwn warchod Cymru rhag effaith y way out of it. Therefore, we must look dirwasgiad drwy adeiladu ein ffordd allan outside the block grant. The Build4Wales ohono. Felly, mae’n rhaid inni edrych y tu programme and borrowing powers are allan i’r grant bloc. Mae’r rhaglen absolutely essential. Build4Wales a’r pwerau benthyca yn gwbl hanfodol.
Some people have said that the Treasury will Mae rhai pobl wedi dweud y bydd y Trysorlys announce that it is considering a £5 billion yn cyhoeddi ei fod yn ystyried rhaglen infrastructure programme. If that is true, seilwaith £5 biliwn. Os yw hynny’n wir, caiff Wales will get around £250 million. I hope Cymru tua £250 miliwn. Gobeithiaf fod that that is true that the Treasury will make hynny’n wir y bydd y Trysorlys yn gwneud y that announcement—and I understand that it cyhoeddiad hwnnw—a deallaf ei fod yn is trying to deny it because it might upset the ceisio gwadu hynny oherwydd gallai amharu markets. That is crucial, because, unless we ar y marchnadoedd. Mae hynny’n hanfodol, get more money into infrastructure projects, oherwydd, os na chawn fwy o arian i mewn i
81 21/09/2011 we will lose even more jobs. brosiectau seilwaith, byddwn yn colli hyd yn oed mwy o swyddi.
In the face of an economic downturn, the Yng ngoleuni dirywiad economaidd, fe policy of the previous Government and the wnaeth bolisi’r Llywodraeth flaenorol a policy of the Minister for business focused pholisi’r Gweinidog busnes ganolbwyntio ar on the need to attract new jobs to Wales. In a yr angen i ddenu swyddi newydd i Gymru. recession, you cannot do that, and you Mewn dirwasgiad, ni allwch wneud hynny, ac therefore have to protect the base that you felly mae’n rhaid i chi ddiogelu’r sylfaen have and look at the ways in which you can sydd gennych ac edrych ar y ffyrdd y gallwch do that. That is what we did: ProAct was wneud hynny. Dyna beth a wnaethom: introduced and ReAct was beefed up. I think cyflwynwyd ProAct ac atgyfnerthwyd ReAct. that the Government should be looking at Credaf y dylai’r Llywodraeth fod yn edrych ar reintroducing ProAct. I know that, yesterday, ailgyflwyno ProAct. Gwn, ddoe, y siaradodd the First Minister talked about SkillWales, y Prif Weinidog am SkillWales, ond mae but that misses an essential element, because, hynny’n methu’r elfen hanfodol, oherwydd, in addition to providing skills training, yn ogystal â darparu hyfforddiant sgiliau, ProAct provided a subsidy for employers to roedd ProAct yn darparu cymhorthdal ar maintain their skills base, so I think that that gyfer cyflogwyr i gynnal eu sylfaen sgiliau, must be looked at again. felly credaf fod yn rhaid ystyried hynny eto.
As we know, the ReAct budget has been cut. Fel y gwyddom, torrwyd y gyllideb ReAct. That should be looked at again. So, I am Dylid ystyried hynny eto. Felly, yr wyf yn asking the Government to beef up the gofyn i’r Llywodraeth i atgyfnerthu’r gyllideb business budget—and I hope that the busnes—a gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog Minister for business will recognise that I am busnes yn cydnabod fy mod yn ceisio helpu hi trying to assist her here—because, if we are yma—oherwydd, os ydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â serious about protecting jobs, we must do diogelu swyddi, rhaid inni wneud hynny. that. I also believe that we should be calling Credaf hefyd y dylem fod yn galw another economic summit now. It is essential uwchgynhadledd economaidd arall nawr. that we have that economic summit to get Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn cynnal yr everyone around the table to understand uwchgynhadledd economaidd honno er mwyn what we face. Therefore, I believe that the cael pawb o gwmpas y bwrdd i ddeall yr hyn economy and jobs must be the priorities. a wynebwn. Felly, rwy’n credu bod yn rhaid i’r economi a swyddi fod yn flaenoriaethau.
Yesterday, I did not detect that the First Ddoe, ni chanfyddais bod y Prif Weinidog yn Minister appreciated the scale of the problem gwerthfawrogi maint y broblem a beth sydd and what needs to be done. However, I hope angen ei wneud. Fodd bynnag, gobeithiaf fod that this debate has given us an opportunity y ddadl hon wedi rhoi cyfle i ni godi’r to raise those key issues, and I hope that the materion allweddol hynny, a gobeithiaf y gall Minister can give us a more positive y Gweinidog roi inni ymateb mwy cadarnhaol response today. heddiw.
Gwelliant 3 Jane Hutt Amendment 3 Jane Hutt
Dileu ‘diffyg’ ym mhwynt 1b). Delete ‘lack of’ in point 1b).
The Minister for Finance and Leader of Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ the House (Jane Hutt): I move amendment (Jane Hutt): Cynigiaf welliant 3 yn fy enw. 3 in my name.
Gwelliant 1 William Graham Amendment 1 William Graham
Dileu pwynt 1a) a rhoi yn ei le: Delete point 1a) and replace with:
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Yr angen i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud y The need for the Welsh Government to make defnydd gorau o’r arian cyfalaf sydd ar gael best use of available capital funds in the yn yr hinsawdd economaidd bresennol. current economic climate.
Gwelliant 4 William Graham Amendment 4 William Graham
Dileu pwynt 2c) a rhoi yn ei le: Delete point 2c) and replace with:
Sefydlu cynllun partneriaeth cyhoeddus- Establish a ‘Made in Wales’ public-private preifat ‘Gwnaed yng Nghymru’ fel rhan o partnership scheme as part of a Welsh gynllun Seilwaith Cymru. Infrastructure plan.
Paul Davies: Cynigiaf welliannau 1 a 4 yn Paul Davies: I move amendments 1 and 4 in enw William Graham. the name of William Graham.
Yr wyf yn falch o’r cyfle i gymryd rhan yn y I am pleased to have the opportunity to ddadl hon y prynhawn yma. Yr wyf hefyd participate in this afternoon’s debate. I also am ddiolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno’r wish to thank Plaid Cymru for tabling this ddadl hon. Wrth gwrs, ni fydd yn syndod i’r motion. Of course, it will come as no surprise Siambr ein bod yn cytuno â rhai agweddau ar to the Chamber that we agree with some y cynnig ond na allwn dderbyn rhannau eraill elements of the motion but that we cannot ohono. Gan hynny, byddwn yn accept other aspects. Therefore, we will be gwrthwynebu’r cynnig fel y mae ac yn annog opposing the motion as it stands and Aelodau i gefnogi ein gwelliannau. Byddwn encouraging Members to support our hefyd yn cefnogi gwelliannau’r amendments. We will also support the Liberal Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a gyflwynwyd yn Democrat amendments tabled in the name of enw Peter Black. Peter Black.
Yn gyntaf, rhaid i ni dderbyn, gyda chyllideb First, we have to accept that, with a smaller gyfalaf lai, fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru capital budget, the Welsh Government has to feddwl yn arloesol ynghylch sut y gellid think in an innovative way about how new cyllido prosiectau cyfalaf newydd. Yr wyf yn capital projects can be funded. I am pleased falch bod Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a that the UK Government and the Welsh Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i drafod Government are continuing with negotiations datganoli pwerau benthyca er mwyn ariannu on devolving borrowing powers in order to prosiectau cyfalaf. Wrth gwrs, byddai’n fund capital projects. Of course, it would gwneud synnwyr i Lywodraeth Cymru gael y make sense for the Welsh Government to gallu i fenthyg, o ystyried bod gan have the ability to borrow, bearing in mind awdurdodau lleol, er enghraifft, y pwerau that local authorities, for example, already hynny. Fodd bynnag, o safbwynt have those powers. However, the Welsh Llywodraeth Cymru, yr wyf yn credu bod Government needs to be clear about the sort angen iddi fod yn glir ynglŷn â pha fath o of borrowing powers it is requesting. It also bwerau benthyca y mae’n gofyn amdanynt. needs to be clear about exactly how the Mae hefyd angen iddi fod yn glir ynglŷn â money would be used, to what ends, and at sut byddai’r arian yn cael ei ddefnyddio, ac i what rate it would repay the money. The beth, ac ar ba gyfradd y byddai’n talu’r arian process has to be entirely transparent. Perhaps yn ôl. Rhaid i’r broses fod yn gwbl dryloyw. the Minister can tell us in her response how Efallai y gall y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym the negotiations on borrowing powers are yn ei hymateb sut mae’r trafodaethau ar progressing with the UK Government. bwerau benthyca yn symud ymlaen gyda Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig.
Yr wyf yn cytuno â’r rhan o gynnig Plaid I agree with the part of the Plaid Cymru Cymru sy’n nodi y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru motion that notes that the Welsh Government
83 21/09/2011 chwilio am ffrydiau ariannu ychwanegol, yn should seek additional funding streams, enwedig o ystyried mai Cymru yw rhan particularly bearing in mind the fact that dlotaf y Deyrnas Unedig yn swyddogol. Yn Wales is officially the poorest part of the 2009, yr oedd GVA cymharol y pen yng United Kingdom. In 2009, the comparative Nghymru yn 74.3 y cant o gyfartaledd y per capita GVA was 74.3 per cent of the UK Deyrnas Unedig. Y ffigur hwnnw oedd yr average. This was the lowest of all the isaf o holl genhedloedd datganoledig a devolved nations and regions of the United rhanbarthau’r Deyrnas Unedig, gan fod GVA Kingdom, with per capita GVA having fallen y pen yng Nghymru wedi gostwng 10 pwynt by 10 points in Wales since 1989. Obviously, ers 1989. Yn amlwg, mae angen gwneud we need to do more to attract investment to mwy i ddenu buddsoddiad i Gymru. Yr wyf Wales. I think that it is important that the yn credu ei bod yn bwysig bod y Government tells us beforehand what Llywodraeth yn dweud wrthym o flaen llaw particular projects would be funded from pa brosiectau penodol a fyddai’n cael eu additional borrowing. Perhaps the Minister hariannu o fenthyca ychwanegol. Efallai yr would like to take the opportunity when she hoffai’r Gweinidog gymryd y cyfle hwn i responds this afternoon to confirm what sort gadarnhau yn ei hymateb pa fath o brosiectau of projects she is looking to fund from y mae hi’n bwriadu eu cyllido o fenthyca additional borrowing. ychwanegol.
Yr wyf hefyd yn digwydd credu y byddai’r I also happen to believe that the argument in ddadl ar gyfer trosglwyddo pwerau benthyca favour of transferring borrowing powers yn cael ei chryfhau pe bai Llywodraeth would be strengthened if the Welsh Cymru yn darparu mwy o eglurder o ran sut Government provided more clarity about how mae’n bwriadu defnyddio’r pwerau hynny. it intends to use those powers. You need Rhaid cael tryloywder ar y mater hwn er transparency on this issue so that the public mwyn i’r cyhoedd allu cydnabod amcanion y can recognise the Government’s aspirations Llywodraeth a deall pam mae’n benthyca ac and understand why it is borrowing and what ar gyfer beth y bydd yr arian yn cael ei the money will be used for. ddefnyddio.
4.15 p.m.
Mae gwelliant 1 yn nodi’r angen i Amendment 1 notes the need for the Welsh Lywodraeth Cymru wneud y defnydd gorau Government to make best use of available o’r cyllid cyfalaf sydd ar gael yn yr hinsawdd capital funds in the current economic climate. economaidd sydd ohoni. Mae hyn yn This falls into the second part of the motion, gysylltiedig ag ail ran y cynnig, sy’n sôn am on the lack of steps taken by the Welsh y diffyg camau gan Lywodraeth Cymru i Government to attract new sources of funding nodi a denu ffynonellau newydd o gyllid i to Wales. One way of getting to grips with Gymru. Un ffordd o fynd i’r afael â hyn yw i this would be for the Welsh Government to Lywodraeth Cymru wneud mwy o ddefnydd make more use of the capital available from o’r cyfalaf sydd ar gael gan Fanc Buddsoddi the European Investment Bank. We have Ewrop. Yr ydym wedi gweld rhannau eraill seen other parts of the UK using loans to o’r Deyrnas Unedig yn defnyddio fund schools, universities, roads and hospital benthyciadau i ariannu ysgolion, buildings, as well as energy and transport prifysgolion, ffyrdd ac adeiladau ysbyty, yn projects, and I believe that the Welsh ogystal â phrosiectau ynni a chludiant, a Government needs to look at all available chredaf fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru funding streams. I would be interested to archwilio’r holl lwybrau cyllid sydd ar gael. know from the Government and from the Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb clywed gan y Minister what plans they have for working Llywodraeth a chan y Gweinidog pa with the European Investment Bank in the gynlluniau sydd ganddynt o ran gweithio future. I did not receive a comprehensive gyda Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop yn y dyfodol. response earlier during questions to the Ni chefais ateb cyflawn yn gynharach yn Minister, so I would be grateful if she could
84 21/09/2011 ystod y sesiwn gwestiynau i’r Gweinidog, make reference to this in her response to the felly byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe bai’n gallu debate. cyfeirio at hyn yn ei hymateb.
Mae ariannu preifat hefyd yn haeddu sylw Private funding is also something that gan y Cynulliad. Yr ydym yn gwybod bod deserves to be addressed by the Assembly. buddsoddi preifat mewn prosiectau We know that private investment in public cyhoeddus wedi bod yn is yng Nghymru nag projects has been lower in Wales than in the yng ngweddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Er rest of the UK. For example, in January 2008, enghraifft, ym mis Ionawr 2008, yr oedd private finance initiative money was worth arian mentrau cyllid preifat yn werth £1,000 £1,000 per capita in Scotland and £990 per y pen yn yr Alban a £990 y pen yn Lloegr, o’i capita in England, compared with only £205 gymharu â dim ond £205 y pen yma yng per capita in Wales. That is why our second Nghymru. Dyna pam mae ein hail welliant yn amendment calls on the Welsh Government galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sefydlu cynllun to establish a public-private partnership partneriaeth cyhoeddus-preifat fel rhan o scheme as part of an infrastructure plan for gynllun seilwaith Cymru. Yr wyf yn Wales. I hope that Members here today will gobeithio y bydd Aelodau yma heddiw yn support our amendments. cefnogi ein gwelliannau.
Gwelliant 2 Peter Black Amendment 2 Peter Black
Ym mhwynt 1a), ar ôl ‘Llywodraeth Cymru’ In point 1a), after ‘Welsh government’ insert, rhoi, ‘ac o dan gynlluniau a gyhoeddwyd gan ‘and that under plans announced by Alastair Alastair Darling yn ei gyllideb yn 2009, Darling in his 2009 budget, the Welsh capital byddai toriadau o 45% dros 3 blynedd yng budget would have been cut by 45% over 3 nghyllideb cyfalaf Cymru’. years’.
Gwelliant 5 Peter Black Amendment 5 Peter Black
Dileu pwynt 2c). Delete point 2c).
Gwelliant 6 Peter Black Amendment 6 Peter Black
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add as new point at end of motion: cynnig:
Yn galw ar yr holl bleidiau a gynrychiolir yn Calls on all parties represented in the y Cynulliad i weithio’n adeiladol ar y broses Assembly to work constructively with the debyg i Calman sy’n cael ei chynnal gan Calman-style process being conducted by the Lywodraeth y DU. UK Government.
Peter Black: I move amendments 2, 5 and 6 Peter Black: Cynigiaf welliannau 2, 5 a 6 yn in my name. fy enw i.
Amendment 2 notes that we need to take into Mae gwelliant 2 yn nodi bod angen inni account that, following a recession, any UK ystyried y ffaith, yn dilyn dirwasgiad, y Government would need to have byddai angen i unrhyw Lywodraeth y DU implemented the sort of austerity measures weithredu’r math o fesurau llymder y mae that the current UK Government is bringing Llywodraeth bresennol y DU yn eu into effect, in order to restore confidence to cyflwyno, er mwyn adfer hyder i’r farchnad the UK market. This was amplified by nearly yn y DU. Cafodd hyn ei chwyddo gan bron i a decade of deficit financing by the previous ddegawd o ariannu diffyg gan y Llywodraeth Government. Complaining about this without flaenorol. Cwyno am hyn heb gynnig atebion proposing imaginative solutions is the worst creadigol yw’r math gwaethaf o
85 21/09/2011 kind of headline politics. wleidyddiaeth i’r penawdau.
Amendment 5 deletes the proposal to lobby Mae gwelliant 5 yn dileu’r cynnig i lobïo the UK Government—[Interruption.] If you Llywodraeth y DU—[Torri ar draws.] Os want to intervene, you are welcome to make ydych am ymyrryd, mae croeso ichi ymyrryd. an intervention.
Simon Thomas: He mentions 10 years of Simon Thomas: Mae’n sôn am 10 mlynedd deficit budgets by the Westminster o gyllidebau diffyg gan Lywodraeth San Government. Could he tell us on which Steffan. A allai ddweud wrthym ar ba occasions Liberal Democrat MPs called for achlysuron y galwodd Aelodau Seneddol y less spending during those 10 years? Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol am lai o wariant yn ystod y 10 mlynedd hynny?
Peter Black: You will know, Simon, that Peter Black: Byddwch yn gwybod, Simon, Vince Cable said on a number of occasions, bod Vince Cable wedi dweud ar sawl 2006 most prominently, that the level of debt achlysur—yn fwyaf amlwg yn 206—bod that the UK Government was getting into— lefel dyled Llywodraeth y DU yn mynd—
Simon Thomas: That was personal debt, Simon Thomas: Dyled bersonol oedd hynny, Peter, and not public debt. Peter, nid dyled gyhoeddus.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. This Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Nid sgwrs is not a private conversation. breifat yw hon.
Peter Black: The Liberal Democrats have Peter Black: Mae’r Democratiaid been raising this issue in the UK Government Rhyddfrydol wedi bod yn codi’r mater hwn and it is fairly evident that, since 2002, the yn Llywodraeth y DU ac mae’n weddol UK Government under Labour was running a amlwg bod Llywodraeth y DU, ers 2002, o deficit budget well before the banking crisis. dan Lafur, yn rhedeg cyllideb ddiffyg ymhell Of course, that put it in a worse position cyn yr argyfwng bancio. Wrth gwrs, fe when that crisis finally came. wnaeth hynny ei rhoi mewn sefyllfa waeth pan ddaeth y argyfwng o’r diwedd.
Amendment 5 deletes the proposal to lobby Mae gwelliant 5 yn dileu’r cynnig i lobïo the UK Government for a temporary cut in Llywodraeth y DU am doriad dros dro mewn VAT. The UK Parliament has twice rejected TAW. Mae Senedd y DU wedi gwrthod the call for a VAT reduction. So, if the ddwywaith yr alwad am ostyngiad TAW. Government were to implement it, it would Felly, os bydd y Llywodraeth yn ei roi ar represent a slight difficulty between us and waith, byddai’n golygu ychydig o anhawster them. More importantly, the rise in the VAT rhyngom ni a nhw. Yn bwysicach fyth, fe rate raised an additional £13.5 billion—not wnaeth y cynnydd yn y gyfradd TAW godi much less than the entire budget of the swm ychwanegol o £13.5 biliwn—nid llawer National Assembly—and I can see nothing in llai na chyllideb gyfan y Cynulliad this motion as to how Plaid Cymru proposes Cenedlaethol—a ni allaf weld dim yn y to fill that gap. We also have to consider the cynnig hwn ynghylch sut mae Plaid Cymru evidence available from when Alastair yn bwriadu llenwi’r bwlch hwnnw. Rhaid Darling cut VAT as a temporary measure. inni hefyd ystyried y dystiolaeth sydd ar gael There is very little evidence that it stimulated o’r adeg pan dorrodd Alastair Darling TAW the economy in the way that is being fel mesur dros dro. Ychydig iawn o proposed here. It seems to me that that is a dystiolaeth sydd bod hynny wedi ysgogi’r myth being proposed by a number of people. economi yn y ffordd sy’n cael ei gynnig yma. Mae’n ymddangos imi mai myth yw hynny, sy’n cael ei gynnig gan nifer o bobl.
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Finally, amendment 6 acknowledges that Yn olaf, mae gwelliant 6 yn cydnabod y bydd much of the work in developing additional llawer o’r gwaith o ran datblygu pwerau financial powers for the National Assembly ariannol ychwanegol i’r Cynulliad will take place through the Calman-style Cenedlaethol yn cael ei gynnal drwy commission, and encourages each political gomisiwn fel Calman, ac yn annog pob plaid party represented here to engage with the wleidyddol a gynrychiolir yma i ymgysylltu commission to ensure a consensual approach â’r comisiwn i sicrhau dull cydsyniol tuag at to greater powers. It goes without saying that fwy o bwerau. Nid oes angen dweud y we would ask minor parties and other byddem yn gofyn i bleidiau llai a chyrff eraill interested bodies to contribute too. The sydd â diddordeb i gyfrannu hefyd. Mae Welsh Liberal Democrats have been key in Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru wedi bod ensuring that borrowing powers are devolved yn allweddol o ran sicrhau bod pwerau to the National Assembly. We believe that benthyca yn cael eu datganoli i’r Cynulliad the power to borrow would help finance large Cenedlaethol. Rydym yn credu y byddai’r capital projects, particularly infrastructure pŵer i fenthyca yn helpu i ariannu prosiectau projects, which would have two effects. The cyfalaf mawr, yn enwedig prosiectau first is that it would develop the infrastructure seilwaith, a fyddai’n cael dwy effaith. Y needed for future economic growth, and the cyntaf yw y byddai’n datblygu’r seilwaith second, as pointed out by Ieuan Wyn Jones in sydd ei angen ar gyfer twf economaidd yn y moving the motion, is that it would stimulate dyfodol, a’r ail, fel y nodwyd gan Ieuan Wyn immediate economic growth. Jones wrth wneud y cynnig, yw y byddai’n ysgogi twf economaidd ar unwaith.
I would like to see the borrowing powers of Hoffwn weld pwerau benthyca’r Cynulliad the National Assembly made equal to those Cenedlaethol yn cael eu gwneud yn gyfartal â of the Scottish Parliament as soon as is rhai Senedd yr Alban cyn gynted ag sy’n feasible. The details of the proposals for ymarferol. Mae manylion y cynigion ar gyfer Scotland are already known. Scotland will be yr Alban eisoes yn hysbys. Bydd yr Alban yn able to borrow up to 10 per cent of the capital gallu benthyg hyd at 10 y cant o’r gyllideb budget each year, with cumulative capital of gyfalaf bob blwyddyn, gyda chyfalaf cronnol around £2.2 billion, with money available o thua £2.2 biliwn, gydag arian ar gael oddi from the national loans fund and plans for wrth y gronfa benthyciadau cenedlaethol a repayment. There is detail regarding what chynlluniau ar gyfer ad-dalu. Mae angen these Scottish-style borrowing powers mean, manylion ynghylch beth fyddai’r pwerau so we can evaluate it on that basis. That benthyca hyn, fel yn yr Alban, yn golygu, er would be a first step, but an important step mwyn inni werthuso ar y sail honno. Byddai nonetheless. hynny’n gam cyntaf, ond yn gam pwysig serch hynny.
That is in strong contrast to the Conservative Mae hynny’n wahanol i welliant y amendment relating to a ‘made in Wales’ Ceidwadwyr ynghylch partneriaeth public-private partnership. I have no problem cyhoeddus-preifat ‘a wnaed yng Nghymru’. with using private money to invest in Nid oes gennyf unrhyw broblem gyda infrastructure as long as we avoid the pitfalls defnyddio arian preifat i fuddsoddi mewn of PFI. However, the Conservatives have seilwaith, cyn belled â’n bod ni’n osgoi provided no details on how they would do peryglon PFI. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r this, how it would differ from other models Ceidwadwyr wedi rhoi unrhyw fanylion am or anything about it at all, other than it would sut y byddent yn gwneud hyn, sut y byddai’n be made in Wales. I require a bit more detail wahanol i fodelau eraill neu unrhyw beth o before I can offer my total support to that gwbl heblaw’r ffaith y byddai’n cael ei amendment, and I hope that any gwneud yng Nghymru. Mae angen ychydig Conservatives contributing to this debate can mwy o fanylder cyn y gallaf roi fy holl flesh out the details of that amendment. gefnogaeth i’r gwelliant hwnnw, ac rwy’n gobeithio y gall unrhyw Geidwadwr sy’n cyfrannu at y ddadl hon ehangu ar fanylion y
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gwelliant hwnnw.
The other point that I would like to make is Y pwynt arall yr hoffwn ei wneud yw bod that there are other ways in which the Welsh yna ffyrdd eraill i Lywodraeth Cymru ysgogi Government can stimulate capital investment. buddsoddiad cyfalaf. Y cyntaf yw ariannu The first is tax increment financing, which drwy gynyddrannau treth, sydd wedi cael ei has been proposed in England by the UK gynnig yn Lloegr gan Lywodraeth y DU. Government. It would allow local authorities Byddai’n caniatáu i awdurdodau lleol ysgogi to stimulate capital development by datblygu cyfalaf drwy fenthyca yn erbyn y borrowing against the increase in business cynnydd mewn ardrethi busnes a godir o rates raised as a result. I also referred earlier, ganlyniad i hynny. Cyfeiriais hefyd yn during questions to the Minister for Finance, gynharach, yn ystod cwestiynau i’r to the proposals for a Welsh housing Gweinidog dros Gyllid, at y cynigion ar gyfer investment trust, which would stimulate ymddiriedolaeth buddsoddi tai Cymru, a capital investment in social housing by using fyddai’n ysgogi buddsoddiad cyfalaf mewn the borrowing power of local authorities and tai cymdeithasol drwy ddefnyddio pŵer many other mechanisms attached to that. I benthyca awdurdodau lleol a nifer o would like to see that being pursued further. fecanweithiau eraill sydd ynghlwm wrth The Minister hinted in her response that that hynny. Hoffwn weld hynny’n cael ei ddilyn had been abandoned by the Government, so I ymhellach. Awgrymodd y Gweinidog yn ei would like more clarity from the Minister on hymateb bod y Llywodraeth wedi troi ei that. chefn ar hynny, felly hoffwn gael fwy o eglurder gan y Gweinidog am hynny.
Simon Thomas: I thought that Kirsty Simon Thomas: Yr oeddwn yn meddwl bod Williams had taken her chutzpah with her to Kirsty Williams wedi mynd â’i hyfdra i Birmingham, but she clearly left enough Birmingham, ond yn amlwg, gadawodd behind for Peter Black. The idea that the Lib ddigon y tu ôl ar gyfer Peter Black. Mae’r Dems have been calling for 10 years for less syniad bod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi public spending rather than more bears no bod yn galw ers dros 10 mlynedd am lai o relationship to reality whatsoever. wariant cyhoeddus, yn hytrach na mwy, heb unrhyw berthynas â realiti o gwbl.
Peter Black rose— Peter Black a gododd—
Simon Thomas: I will finish this point. I Simon Thomas: Rwyf am orffen y pwynt well remember Vince Cable’s remarks on hwn. Cofiaf yn dda sylwadau Vince Cable ar debt; they were on the private debt carried by ddyled; roeddent am y ddyled breifat a oedd households and not on the public debt of the gan gartrefi ac nid ar ddyled gyhoeddus y country. wlad.
Peter Black: I beg to differ, Simon. The Peter Black: Yr wyf yn anghytuno, Simon. Liberal Democrats were not calling for less Nid oedd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn public spending; what we were calling for galw am lai o wariant cyhoeddus; yr hyn yr was to control the debt that the UK economy oeddem yn galw amdano oedd rheoli dyled was getting into. economi’r DU.
Simon Thomas: Calling for reducing debt by Simon Thomas: Nid galw am leihau always voting in Westminster budget debates dyledion drwy bleidleisio dros fwy o wariant for more public spending is not the way to do cyhoeddus bob tro mewn dadleuon ar y it. However, I want to turn away from the gyllideb yn San Steffan yw’r ffordd o wneud fantasy politics of the Liberal Democrats to a hynny. Fodd bynnag, rwyf am droi i ffwrdd more real decision facing the country at the oddi wrth wleidyddiaeth ffantasi’r moment, namely what to do about our Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ac i benderfyniad tanking economy. As the leader of Plaid mwy real sy’n wynebu’r wlad ar hyn o bryd,
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Cymru outlined in his speech, the growth sef beth i’w wneud am ein heconomi predictions are for the UK economy to ffaeledig. Fel yr amlinellodd arweinydd Plaid flatline; they have been reduced time and Cymru yn ei araith, rhagwelir y bydd twf again. We will wait to see what the Office for economi’r DU yn gwastatáu; mae’r Budget Responsibility has to say in a month’s rhagolygon wedi cael eu lleihau dro ar ôl tro. time. I will be surprised if it thinks that we Byddwn yn aros i weld beth fydd gan y will have anything more than 1 per cent Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol i’w ddweud growth this year, which, in reality, is a fis nesaf. Byddaf yn synnu os yw’n credu y flatlining economy. It is clear that plan A is byddwn yn cael unrhyw beth mwy na thwf o not working, and that we need to look at 1 y cant eleni, sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn alternatives to boost spending. economi sy’n gwastatáu. Mae’n amlwg nad yw cynllun A yn gweithio, a bod angen inni edrych ar ddewisiadau eraill i roi hwb i wariant.
Ieuan Wyn Jones clearly set out how capital Nododd Ieuan Wyn Jones yn glir sut y gall spending, if brought forward, as is being gwariant cyfalaf, os caiff ei ddwyn ymlaen, discussed in London at the moment, it seems, fel sy’n cael ei drafod yn Llundain ar hyn o may help us in Wales create jobs and boost bryd, mae’n ymddangos, efallai ein helpu ni public spending in Wales. Public spending yng Nghymru i greu swyddi a rhoi hwb i leads to a boost in the private sector as wariant cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Mae well—construction jobs and associated trades gwariant cyhoeddus yn arwain at hwb yn y help the private sector. sector preifat hefyd—mae swyddi adeiladu a chrefftau cysylltiedig yn helpu’r sector preifat.
However, I want to concentrate for a few Fodd bynnag, rwyf am ganolbwyntio am minutes on VAT, because there is now an ychydig o funudau ar TAW, gan fod yna opportunity to look at reducing VAT, at least gyfle nawr i edrych ar leihau TAW, o leiaf temporarily, back to 17.5 per cent. There dros dro, yn ôl i 17.5 y cant. Efallai hefyd y might also be a long-term idea for reducing bydd syniad hirdymor ar gyfer lleihau TAW i VAT to 5 per cent on home renovation, home 5 y cant ar adnewyddu tai, cynnal a chadw maintenance and the tourism industry— cartrefi a’r diwydiant twristiaeth—rhywbeth something that Ireland has done quite y mae Iwerddon wedi ei wneud yn eithaf successfully in tourism over the last year or llwyddiannus yn ystod y flwyddyn neu ddwy so. Why VAT? Before we got ourselves in ddiwethaf o ran twristiaeth. Pam TAW? Cyn this pickle, a VAT rate rise to 20 per cent was i ni gael y problemau hyn, cafodd cynnydd i’r described by the Liberal Democrats as a gyfradd TAW i 20 y cant ei ddisgrifio gan y ‘Tory tax bombshell’—something that they Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol fel ergyd dreth y seem to have swallowed rather easily over Torïaid—rhywbeth y maent wedi ei lyncu the last 18 months. The rise in the VAT rate braidd yn hawdd dros y 18 mis diwethaf, was described by none less than David mae’n ymddangos. Cafodd y cynnydd yn y Cameron, the Prime Minister, as ‘the most gyfradd TAW ei ddisgrifio gan David regressive tax’. It is a cause of great sadness Cameron ei hun, y Prif Weinidog, fel y dreth to see a party that calls itself a progressive fwyaf atchweliadol. Mae’n destun tristwch party—a party that occupies the political mawr i weld plaid sy’n galw ei hunan yn centre, or even left of centre from time to blaid flaengar—plaid sy’n ganolog yn time—allying itself with the most regressive wleidyddol, neu i’r chwith o’r canol weithiau, taxation policy in the United Kingdom. hyd yn oed—yn cefnogi’r polisi trethiant Unfortunately, that is what the Liberal mwyaf atchweliadol yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Democrats are doing by supporting the Tories Yn anffodus, dyma’r hyn mae’r Democratiaid at the moment. Rhyddfrydol yn ei wneud drwy gefnogi’r Torïaid ar hyn o bryd.
What would a cut in VAT mean? A cut in Beth fyddai toriad mewn TAW yn ei olygu?
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VAT would enable us to kick-start our Byddai toriad mewn TAW yn ein galluogi i economy. It is a moot argument as to whether roi hwb i’n heconomi. Mae’n ddadl the cut to 15 per cent by Darling helped the ddadleuol ynghylch a oedd y toriad i 15 y economy at the time. There was no sign of cant gan Darling wedi helpu’r economi ar y great spending on the high street, that is true, pryd. Nid oedd unrhyw arwydd o wariant but we do not know what would have mawr ar y stryd fawr, mae hynny’n wir, ond happened if there had been no cut to 15 per nid ydym yn gwybod beth fyddai wedi cent. We do not know whether spending digwydd pe na fu unrhyw doriad i 15 y cant. would have been even more restricted and Nid ydym yn gwybod a fyddai gwariant wedi whether the economy would have suffered bod hyd yn oed yn fwy cyfyngedig ac a even more at that time. We have had two fyddai’r economi wedi dioddef hyd yn oed yn opportunities to reduce VAT to 17.5 per cent fwy ar y pryd. Yr ydym wedi cael dau gyfle i in the House of Commons, in two votes on leihau TAW i 17.5 y cant yn Nhŷ’r different aspects of the Finance Bill. Sadly— Cyffredin, mewn dwy bleidlais ar wahanol because the party opposite does not escape agweddau ar y Mesur Cyllid. Yn anffodus— criticism either on this occasion—despite oherwydd nad yw’r blaid gyferbyn yn osgoi having Ed Balls leading the charge for a beirniadaeth ychwaith y tro hwn—er bod Ed reduction in VAT, the Labour Party abstained Balls wedi arwain yr ymgyrch am ostyngiad on one occasion and voted against on mewn TAW, ymatalodd y Blaid Lafur ar un another. That is why we have brought this to achlysur a phleidleisio yn erbyn ar un arall. the Assembly today. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi dod â hyn i’r Cynulliad heddiw.
We want the Welsh Government to make a Yr ydym am i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud coherent argument for a reduction in VAT as dadl gydlynol ar gyfer lleihad mewn TAW a way of boosting the economy, creating new fel ffordd o roi hwb i’r economi, creu swyddi jobs and helping those of us in Wales who newydd a helpu’r rheini ohonom yng are facing an uncertain future. Most public Nghymru sy’n wynebu dyfodol ansicr. Mae’r servants are seeing their wages being held rhan fwyaf o weision cyhoeddus yn gweld eu without an increase, inflation is at 5 per cent cyflogau yn cael eu cynnal heb gynnydd, mae and all that the Bank of England is suggesting chwyddiant yn 5 y cant, a’r unig beth y mae is quantitative easing—printing money. I Banc Lloegr ond yn awgrymu yw ‘lleddfu have great concerns about printing money meintiol’—hynny yw, argraffu arian. Mae when inflation is at 5 per cent, and I would gennyf bryderon mawr ynghylch argraffu like to see us boost the economy by putting arian pan mae chwyddiant yn 5 y cant, a more money in the pockets of consumers and hoffwn ein gweld yn hybu’r economi drwy families who are facing difficult times by roi mwy o arian ym mhocedi defnyddwyr a way of a cut in VAT. That is why we urge the theuluoedd sy’n wynebu cyfnod anodd drwy Labour Party, the Welsh Government and the leihau TAW. Dyna pam yr ydym yn annog y National Assembly for Wales to take this Blaid Lafur, Llywodraeth Cymru a stand now and say ‘This would help our Chynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i sefyll yn economy and help boost Welsh jobs’. gadarn a dweud ‘Byddai hyn yn helpu ein heconomi ac yn helpu i roi hwb i swyddi yng Nghymru’.
Mike Hedges: I agree with a lot of what Mike Hedges: Yr wyf yn cytuno â llawer o’r Simon Thomas said in criticism of the hyn a ddywedodd Simon Thomas wrth Liberal Democrats. I will not repeat it. feirniadu’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Nid wyf am ailadrodd hynny.
I am opposed to the Tory-Lib Dem Yr wyf yn gwrthwynebu toriadau Government cuts at Westminster. I belong to Llywodraeth y Torïaid a’r Democratiaid that growing group of people who believe Rhyddfrydol yn San Steffan. Yr wyf yn that the cuts are too fast and too deep and are perthyn i’r grŵp cynyddol o bobl sy’n credu causing a serious threat of a double-dip bod y toriadau yn rhy gyflym ac yn rhy
90 21/09/2011 recession in Britain. The Tory-Lib Dem UK ddwfn ac yn achosi bygythiad difrifol o Government is imposing a massive 40 per ddirwasgiad dwbl ym Mhrydain. ae cent cut in real terms over the three-year Llywodraeth Dorïaidd a Decocratiaid period of the current comprehensive spending Rhyddfrydol y DU yn gosod toriad enfawr o review. Capital budgets have been slashed 40 y cant mewn termau real dros gyfnod tair this year by more than 25 per cent in real blynedd yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant terms. The scale of the Tory-Lib Dem cuts to cyfredol. Mae’r cyllidebau cyfalaf wedi cael Wales’s capital funding means that, by 2014- eu torri eleni gan fwy na 25 y cant mewn 15, the capital budget will be lower in real termau real. Mae maint toriadau’r Torïaid a’r terms than at any stage since the 1980s. This Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol i gyllid cyfalaf risks doing major damage to Wales’s Cymru yn golygu y bydd y gyllideb gyfalaf, economic recovery at a delicate time for the erbyn 2014-15, yn is mewn termau real nag Welsh economy. ar unrhyw adeg ers y 1980au. Mae yna risg y bydd hyn yn achosi niwed mawr i adferiad economaidd Cymru ar adeg fregus i economi Cymru.
Despite these savage Tory-Lib Dem capital Er gwaethaf y toriadau gwariant cyfalaf spending cuts, the Labour Government in ffyrnig gan Lywodraeth y Torïaid a’r Wales has been active in investing in new Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, mae’r capital projects to modernise our public Llywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru wedi bod services. Examples of investment include yn weithgar o ran buddsoddi mewn capital funding announced in 2010 to prosiectau cyfalaf newydd i foderneiddio ein improve schools and further education gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae enghreifftiau institutions and new equipment for the NHS. o fuddsoddiad yn cynnwys y cyllid cyfalaf a Cutting VAT was Labour’s policy and gyhoeddwyd yn 2010 i wella ysgolion a Labour did it. When it was done, it caused, in sefydliadau addysg bellach ac offer newydd the short term, a boost to the economy— i’r GIG. Polisi Llafur oedd torri TAW, ac fe maybe it was not a massive boost, but it was wnaeth y Blaid Lafur hynny. Pan gafodd ei a boost. Anyone looking at the figures for wneud, achosodd, yn y tymor byr, hwb i’r unemployment or the growth rate must come economi—efallai nad oedd yn hwb enfawr, to the conclusion that we need something to ond yr oedd yn hwb. Mae’n rhaid i unrhyw boost our economy. un sy’n edrych ar y ffigurau ar gyfer diweithdra neu’r gyfradd twf ddod i’r casgliad bod angen rhywbeth i roi hwb i’n heconomi.
On the Lib Dems’ amendment 2, does anyone O ran gwelliant 2 y Democratiaid really think that Alistair Darling would have Rhyddfrydol, a oes unrhyw un yn wir yn been Chancellor if Gordon Brown had won credu y byddai Alistair Darling wedi bod yn the election? [Laughter.] One of the many Ganghellor pe bai Gordon Brown wedi ennill things that I found different when I came to yr etholiad? [Chwerthin.] Un o’r nifer o the Assembly was capital expenditure. In bethau a oedd yn wahanol i mi pan ddes i i’r local government, I was used to capital Cynulliad oedd gwariant cyfalaf. Mewn coming with a revenue cost; here, capital llywodraeth leol, roeddwn i’n arfer gweld does not come with a revenue cost. However, cyfalaf yn dod gyda chost refeniw; yma, nid borrowing powers are a tool that is available yw cyfalaf yn dod gyda chost refeniw. Fodd to elected Governments at all levels. To deny bynnag, mae pwerau benthyca yn arf sydd ar the Welsh Government borrowing powers gael i Lywodraethau etholedig ar bob lefel. would put Wales at a competitive Byddai gwadu pwerau benthyca i disadvantage compared with other parts of Lywodraeth Cymru yn rhoi Cymru o dan the UK. anfantais gystadleuol o gymharu â rhannau eraill o’r DU.
There are several means of increasing capital Mae sawl ffordd o gynyddu gwariant cyfalaf,
91 21/09/2011 expenditure, one of which is borrowing from ac un ohonynt yw benthyca o Swyddfa the UK Debt Management Office, which is Rheoli Dyled y DU, sef yr hyn sy’n cael ei what is being done in Scotland and is similar wneud yn yr Alban, ac yn debyg i’r hyn sy’n to what is being done in Northern Ireland. cael ei wneud yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Fodd However, we must always remember that all bynnag, mae’n rhaid inni gofio bob amser debt and borrowing come with revenue bod yr holl ddyled a benthyca yn dod â consequences. If Wales borrowed £500 chanlyniadau o ran refeniw. Os byddai million in one year, it would probably cost Cymru yn benthyg £500 miliwn mewn un £25 million to £30 million to service it. The flwyddyn, mae’n debyg y byddai’n costio figure would rise if Wales borrowed £500 £25 miliwn i £30 miliwn i’w wasanaethu. million every year for 20 years. That would Byddai’r ffigwr yn codi os byddai Cymru yn cost £500 million to £600 million to service, benthyg £500 miliwn bob blwyddyn am 20 and would make a big dent in our revenue. mlynedd. Byddai hynny’n costio rhwng £500 miliwn a £600 miliwn i’w wasanaethu, a byddai hynny’n gwneud tolc mawr yn ein refeniw.
4.30 p.m.
I am opposed to PFI: we used to believe Yr wyf yn gwrthwynebu PFI: roeddem yn ‘PFI’ stood for ‘profit for individuals’ and it arfer credu bod ‘PFI’ yn sefyll am ‘elw ar costs more in the long term and has serious gyfer unigolion’ ac mae’n costio mwy yn y revenue implications, as can be seen from tymor hir ac mae iddo oblygiadau refeniw some of the Westminster budgets. The difrifol, fel y gellir gweld o rai o gyllidebau Assembly has powers to move money from San Steffan. Mae gan y Cynulliad bwerau i revenue to capital but there are serious symud arian o refeniw i gyfalaf ond mae yna revenue problems in areas such as health and broblemau refeniw difrifol mewn meysydd local government. Capital builds schools and fel iechyd a llywodraeth leol. Mae cyfalaf yn hospitals but you need revenue to put adeiladu ysgolion ac ysbytai ond mae angen teachers, doctors, nurses and equipment into refeniw arnoch i roi athrawon, meddygon, them. Could a new form of supplementary nyrsys ac offer i mewn iddynt. A allai ffurf credit approval be given to councils to newydd o gymeradwyaeth credyd atodol gael approve schemes? Councils have prudential ei roi i gynghorau i gymeradwyo cynlluniau? borrowing capacity, which has been Mae capasiti benthyca darbodus gan underused because of the revenue gynghorau, ac nid yw hwn wedi cael ei consequences for councils. If the revenue ddefnyddio digon, oherwydd y canlyniadau support grant could be used to give additional refeniw i gynghorau. Pe gallai’r grant cynnal money for approved schemes, capital moneys refeniw gael ei ddefnyddio i roi arian could be released to build schools, for ychwanegol ar gyfer y cynlluniau sy’n cael example. eu cymeradwyo, gallai arian cyfalaf gael ei ryddhau i adeiladu ysgolion, er enghraifft.
The Welsh Government has said that Plaid Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dweud bod Cymru’s proposed Build for Wales scheme gan gynllun arfaethedig Plaid Cymru offers some potential and merits Adeiladu dros Gymru rhywfaint o botensial consideration. However, it has a number of a’i bod yn werth ei ystyried. Fodd bynnag, potential downsides. It could be expensive to mae ganddo nifer o anfanteision posibl. establish: potential costs include legal fees, Gallai fod yn ddrud i’w sefydlu: mae costau recruitment, accommodation and other costs posibl yn cynnwys ffioedd cyfreithiol, that could be significant. It would be recriwtio, llety a chostau eraill a allai fod yn expensive to run: Northern Ireland’s Strategic sylweddol. Byddai’n ddrud i’w gynnal: Investment Board cost £7.6 million to run in costiodd Bwrdd Buddsoddi Strategol 2009-10. Improving procurement remains a Gogledd Iwerddon £7.6 miliwn i’w redeg yn priority for the Labour Government in Wales 2009-10. Mae gwella caffael yn parhau i fod and it is leading the way in procurement yn flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth Lafur yng
92 21/09/2011 opportunities for small and medium-sized Nghymru ac mae’n arwain y ffordd o ran enterprises. The Welsh Government has cyfleoedd caffael ar gyfer busnesau bach a successfully put in place a series of chanolig eu maint. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru innovative mechanisms to drive change and wedi bod yn llwyddiannus o ran gweithredu they are delivering results: 50 per cent of the cyfres o ddulliau arloesol i sbarduno newid £4.3 billion annual public procurement spend ac maent yn dwyn ffrwyth: 50 y cant o’r £4.3 in Wales, and 21 of the last 40 construction biliwn sy’n cael ei wario ar gaffael contracts awarded in Wales, worth £600 cyhoeddus bob blwyddyn yng Nghymru, ac million, went to Welsh companies. enillwyd 21 o’r 40 o gontractau adeiladu diwethaf a ddyfarnwyd yng Nghymru, gyda gwerth o £600 miliwn, gan gwmnïau o Gymru.
If we want only Welsh businesses to have the Os ydym am weld dim ond busnesau contracts in Wales, do we not want them to Cymreig yn ennill contractau yng Nghymru, have contracts in England and in other parts a yw’n wir i ddweud nad ydym am iddynt of Britain and Europe? I do not think that ennill contractau yn Lloegr neu rannau eraill anyone here would support protectionism, o Brydain ac Ewrop? Nid wyf yn credu y whereby only Welsh firms got Welsh byddai unrhyw un yma yn cefnogi contracts, if that meant that Welsh companies diffyndollaeth, lle mai dim ond cwmnïau could not get contracts in other countries. I Cymreig fyddai’n ennill contractau Cymreig, remember talking to people who were os byddai hynny’n golygu na allai cwmnïau o involved in development who were unhappy Gymru ennill contractau mewn gwledydd about the amount of contracts that they had in eraill. Rwy’n cofio siarad â phobl a oedd yn Wales. I asked them how many they had in ymwneud â datblygu a oedd yn anfodlon â’r England, and the number of contracts that nifer o gontractau yr oedd ganddynt yng they had in England was greater than the Nghymru. Gofynnais iddynt faint oedd number that they had in Wales. ganddynt yn Lloegr, ac roedd nifer y contractau roedd ganddynt yn Lloegr yn fwy na’r nifer roedd ganddynt yng Nghymru.
Finally, I urge you to think about the ongoing Yn olaf, yr wyf yn eich annog i feddwl am revenue implications of borrowing. I am not oblygiadau refeniw parhaus benthyca. Nid saying that it should not be done, but think wyf yn dweud na ddylid ei wneud, ond rwy’n about the lost revenue opportunity costs. meddwl am y costau o ran cyfleoedd refeniw a gollwyd.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch Please make this your last sentence, Mike. gyda’r frawddeg hon, os gwelwch yn dda, Mike.
Mike Hedges: It is my last sentence, Mike Hedges: Fy mrawddeg olaf yw hi, fel actually. mae’n digwydd.
I believe that this Government is making the Credaf fod y Llywodraeth hon yn gwneud y best of a very difficult situation. gorau o sefyllfa anodd iawn.
Leanne Wood: I would like to focus on Leanne Wood: Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar public procurement and its potential for gaffael cyhoeddus a’i botensial ar gyfer stimulating local economies and helping to ysgogi economïau lleol a helpu i greu create jobs. The amount spent by the public swyddi. Amcangyfrifir bod £4.3 biliwn yn sector in Wales is estimated to be £4.3 billion cael ei wario bob blwyddyn gan y sector every year. In my view, and that of Plaid cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Yn fy marn i, ac Cymru, that money should be working for the ym marn Plaid Cymru, dylai’r arian hwnnw Welsh economy, and at the moment so much fod yn gweithio dros economi Cymru, ac ar
93 21/09/2011 of it is not. Too much money leaks out of hyn o bryd, nid yw hynny’n wir am lawer Wales and that is contributing to the ongoing ohono. Mae gormod o arian yn cael ei golli o weakness of the Welsh economy. A new Gymru, ac mae hynny’n cyfrannu at wendid mindset is required if we are to turn this parhaus economi Cymru. Mae angen around. I accept that some good progress has meddylfryd newydd os ydym am newid y been made, but to take that next leap a new sefyllfa. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod rhywfaint o mindset is required. gynnydd da wedi ei wneud, ond mae angen meddylfryd newydd i fynd cam ymhellach.
In questions earlier, the excellent examples Mewn cwestiynau yn gynharach, that can be seen in housing were mentioned. crybwyllwyd yr enghreifftiau rhagorol y Efforts to include social clauses in contracts gellir eu gweld o ran tai. Mae ymdrechion i that enable the sourcing and training of gynnwys cymalau cymdeithasol mewn labour locally have been a great success, contractau sy’n galluogi cyrchu a hyfforddi providing a model of good practice that could llafur yn lleol wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr, be rolled out throughout the public sector. If gan ddarparu model o arfer da y gellid ei a local firm gets a contract for work, the weithredu ledled y sector cyhoeddus. Os yw money earned by the workers in that firm is cwmni lleol yn cael contract ar gyfer gwaith, more likely to be spent locally, close to yna mae’r arian a enillir gan weithwyr y where they work, stimulating local business cwmni yn fwy tebygol o gael ei wario yn activity. Conversely, people who work far lleol, yn agos at le maent yn gweithio, gan away from where they live are more likely to ysgogi gweithgaredd busnes lleol. Ar y llaw spend their money elsewhere. Of course, arall, mae pobl sy’n gweithio yn bell o le people who are not in work at all are unable maent yn byw yn fwy tebygol o wario eu to spend money locally, which is why areas harian mewn mannau eraill. Wrth gwrs, nid with high levels of unemployment often have yw pobl nad ydynt mewn gwaith o gwbl yn dying, or dead, town centres. Supermarket, gallu gwario arian yn lleol, a dyna pam fod internet and out-of-town shopping has taken a canol trefi mewn ardaloedd sydd â lefelau heavy toll on our town centres and there is a uchel o ddiweithdra yn aml yn marw, neu limit to what the Government can do to wedi marw. Mae siopa mewn change people’s shopping habits. However, archfarchnadoedd, ar y we ac mewn the Government can change its own shopping canolfannau y tu allan i drefi wedi cael habits. Every pound that leaks out of Wales is effaith mawr ar ganol ein trefi ac mae yna a pound that is not working for Wales. By derfyn i’r hyn y gall y Llywodraeth ei wneud resolving to try to plug these gaps and keep i newid arferion siopa pobl. Fodd bynnag, Welsh expenditure in Wales, that money gall y Llywodraeth newid ei harferion siopa could contribute towards sustainable jobs ei hun. Mae pob punt sy’n gadael Cymru yn growth. If I were to make an optimistic bunt nad yw’n gweithio dros Gymru. Drwy assumption that the Government does not geisio llenwi’r bylchau hyn a chadw gwariant intend to water down the previous Cymreig yng Nghymru, gallai’r arian hwnnw Government’s carbon reduction ambitions, gyfrannu tuag at dwf swyddi cynaliadwy. Pe measures geared towards supporting public bawn yn gwneud rhagdybiaeth obeithiol nad bodies to purchase their food and renewable yw’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu glastwreiddio energy from local sources wherever possible uchelgeisiau’r Llywodraeth flaenorol o ran would provide numerous desirable outcomes. lleihau carbon, byddai mesurau sy’n anelu at gefnogi cyrff cyhoeddus i brynu eu bwyd ac ynni adnewyddadwy o ffynonellau lleol lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl yn rhoi nifer o ganlyniadau dymunol.
What is stopping the local procurement of Beth sy’n rhwystro caffael bwyd ac ynni food and renewable energy? First, we have adnewyddadwy yn lleol? Yn gyntaf, mae competition rules. They may be challenging, gennym rheolau o ran cystadleuaeth. Er eu but those challenges have been overcome in bod yn heriol, mae’r heriau hynny wedi cael the social housing sector and in other eu goresgyn yn y sector tai cymdeithasol ac
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European Union countries. More work would mewn gwledydd eraill yn yr Undeb need to be done to upskill people and to Ewropeaidd. Byddai angen gwneud gwaith ensure the business capacity to provide food pellach i wella sgiliau pobl a sicrhau’r and renewable energy to the public sector. capasiti busnes i ddarparu bwyd ac ynni More would also need to be done to train adnewyddadwy i’r sector cyhoeddus. Byddai those responsible for procuring on behalf of hefyd angen gwneud mwy i hyfforddi’r rhai the public sector—an issue that will be sy’n gyfrifol am gaffael ar ran y sector expanded upon later. gyhoeddus—mater fydd yn cael ei drafod ymhellach yn nes ymlaen.
Most of all, this would require the political Yn bennaf oll, byddai angen yr ewyllys will to set about utilising public sector gwleidyddol i fynd ati i ddefnyddio gwariant expenditure to create jobs. Regrettably, y sector cyhoeddus i greu swyddi. Yn without such will and commitment, the cuts anffodus, heb ewyllys ac ymrwymiad o’r will inevitably drive the movement the other fath, mae’n anochel y bydd y toriadau yn way. Bigger, more centralised contracts may gwthio pethau i’r cyfeiriad arall. Gall well be cheaper, but a failure to decentralise contractau mwy, sy’n fwy canolog, fod yn and make money work for the good of the rhatach, ond mae methu â chanoli a gwneud Welsh economy risks us missing a great i’r arian weithio er lles economi Cymru yn opportunity. peri inni golli cyfle gwych.
The creation of a home or internal market Cafodd y syniad o greu marchnad gartref neu was suggested by Leopold Kohr in his 1971 fewnol ei hawgrymu gan Leopold Kohr yn ei book Is Wales Viable? Kohr’s thinking has lyfr o 1971 Is Wales Viable? Datblygwyd been further developed in ‘A Greenprint for syniadau Kohr ymhellach yn ‘A Greenprint the Valleys’. Although it offers solutions for for the Valleys’. Er ei fod yn cynnig atebion the market failures in the Valleys, its ar gyfer methiannau'r farchnad yn y principles can be applied anywhere, and I Cymoedd, gall ei egwyddorion gael eu recommend that Members read both—I cymhwyso yn unrhyw le, ac rwy’n argymell would, would I not? Commitment, effort and bod Aelodau yn darllen y ddau—ond mae’n political will from the Government to plug amlwg y byddwn yn gwneud hynny. Gallai these gaps and stop money leaking out of ymrwymiad, ymdrech ac ewyllys Wales, coupled with a commitment to gwleidyddol gan y Llywodraeth i lenwi’r decentralise, unbundle and make public bylchau hyn a rhwystro arian rhag cael ei contracts smaller, could provide a much- golli o Gymru, ynghyd ag ymrwymiad i needed boost to the Welsh economy. Surely ddatganoli, dadfwndelu a gwneud contractau this is an opportunity that we cannot afford to cyhoeddus yn llai, roi hwb mawr ei angen i miss. economi Cymru. Yn sicr, mae hwn yn gyfle na allwn fforddio ei golli.
Nick Ramsay: I am grateful to Plaid Cymru Nick Ramsay: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Blaid for bringing forward this debate, and I am Cymru am gyflwyno’r ddadl hon, ac yr wyf pleased to contribute to it. I support the yn falch o gyfrannu ato. Cefnogaf y amendments tabled in the name of William gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd yn enw William Graham, as well as amendments 2, 5 and 6 in Graham, yn ogystal â gwelliannau 2, 5 a 6 yn the name of Peter Black. Amendment 1 enw Peter Black. Mae gwelliant 1 yn recognises the need of the Welsh cydnabod yr angen i Lywodraeth Cymru i Government to make the best use of capital wneud y defnydd gorau o gronfeydd cyfalaf funds in what is, we have all agreed, a mewn hinsawdd economaidd rydym i gyd challenging economic climate in the UK, in wedi cytuno sy’n un heriol, yn y DU, yn y the European context, and globally. We all cyd-destun Ewropeaidd, ac yn fyd-eang. Yr recognise that this is a challenging time and, ydym i gyd yn cydnabod bod hwn yn gyfnod in any time of global downturn, resources are heriol ac, mewn unrhyw adeg o’r dirywiad restricted. The situation that affected the byd-eang, mae adnoddau yn cael eu cyfyngu. banks in the UK and globally has meant that Mae’r sefyllfa a effeithiodd ar y banciau yn y
95 21/09/2011 resources are even more restricted than might DU ac yn fyd-eang wedi golygu bod otherwise have been the case. I wish it were adnoddau hyd yn oed yn fwy cyfyngedig nag the case that Wales did not have to play its y byddant fel arall. Byddai’n well gennyf pe part in dealing with the UK deficit, but I am a na bai’n rhaid i Gymru chwarae ei rhan o ran realist and I believe that Wales has to play its mynd i’r afael â diffyg ariannol y DU, ond yr part. We all have to recognise that and wyf yn realydd a chredaf fod yn rhaid i support the Welsh Government in the efforts Gymru chwarae ei rhan. Rhaid inni i gyd that it needs to make to play its part in putting gydnabod hynny a chefnogi Llywodraeth UK public finances on a sounder footing. Cymru yn yr ymdrechion y mae angen iddi eu gwneud i chwarae ei rhan wrth roi cyllideb y DU ar sail gadarnach.
I do not think that the Barnett formula has Nid wyf yn credu bod fformiwla Barnett been mentioned so far. I know there is a wedi cael ei grybwyll hyd yn hyn. Yr wyf yn uniform opinion that reform of the Barnett gwybod bod barn unffurf bod diwygio formula and ensuring a fairer funding fformiwla Barnett a sicrhau fformiwla formula are necessary. I welcome the ariannu decach yn angenrheidiol. Yr wyf yn Chancellor George Osborne’s commitment to croesawu ymrwymiad y Canghellor George looking at reform of the Barnett formula. If Osborne i edrych ar ddiwygio fformiwla we can get that reform over the next few Barnett. Os gallwn gael y diwygiad dros yr years, then more funding would be available ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf, yna byddai mwy to Wales. o arian ar gael i Gymru.
I agree with the Plaid Cymru Member’s Cytunaf â sylwadau’r Aelod Plaid Cymru yn comments earlier that we need far more gynharach bod arnom angen llawer mwy o action by the Welsh Government to attract weithredu gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddenu new sources of funding to Wales. In many ffynonellau newydd o gyllid i Gymru. Ar respects, that is common sense. When we talk lawer ystyr, mae hynny’n synnwyr cyffredin. about energy production, we say that Pan rydym yn sôn am gynhyrchu ynni, diversity is necessary for future stability and rydym yn dweud bod amrywiaeth yn security in energy, and you can translate that angenrheidiol ar gyfer sefydlogrwydd a across to the economy. If you want a broader- sicrwydd at y dyfodol o ran ynni, a gallwch based, more secure economy in the future, gyfieithu hynny ar draws yr economi. Os then you need to rely on different sources of ydych am weld economi fwy eang a diogel income. Yes, you need to rely on public yn y dyfodol, yna mae angen i chi ddibynnu sector investment, but you also need to ar wahanol ffynonellau o incwm. Oes, mae recognise the important part that the private angen i chi ddibynnu ar fuddsoddiad gan y sector can play in supporting Government sector cyhoeddus, ond mae hefyd angen i chi policy. gydnabod y rhan bwysig y gall y sector preifat ei chwarae o ran cefnogi polisi’r Llywodraeth.
My colleague Paul Davies mentioned the Mae fy nghydweithiwr, Paul Davies, wedi European Investment Bank. When I spoke on crybwyll Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop. Pan roedd the finance brief for my party I frequently yn llefaru ar y briff cyllid ar gyfer fy mhlaid, referred to the need to make more use of the cyfeiriais yn aml at yr angen i wneud mwy o European Investment Bank. In the past, ddefnydd o Fanc Buddsoddi Ewrop. Yn y particularly back in the early 2000s, Wales gorffennol, yn enwedig yn ôl yn y 2000au could have benefited far more from funding cynnar, byddai Cymru wedi gallu elwa llawer from that bank. That is not necessarily a yn fwy o ran cyllid wrth y banc. Nid yw party-political point, because I do not think hynny o reidrwydd yn bwynt pleidiol that the UK as a whole has made as much of gwleidyddol, oherwydd nid wyf yn credu bod European Investment Bank funding as it y DU yn gyffredinol wedi gwneud cymaint o could have. If you look at Spain, rail projects ddefnydd o arian wrth Fanc Buddsoddi in the north of Spain—major infrastructure Ewrop ag y gallai. Os edrychwch ar Sbaen,
96 21/09/2011 developments—benefited from EIB funding. mae prosiectau ar y rheilffyrdd yng ngogledd If, at this point of economic difficulty, Wales Sbaen—datblygiadau seilwaith mawr—wedi were to access funding from the EIB, then elwa o gyllid gan Fanc Buddsoddi Ewrop. that would be a helpful development. Petai Cymru, yn y cyfnod hwn o anhawster economaidd, yn derbyn cyllid gan Fanc Buddsoddi Ewrop, byddai hynny’n ddatblygiad defnyddiol.
I found the earlier discussion on the call for a Roedd y drafodaeth gynharach ar yr alwad reduction in VAT very interesting. At the am ostyngiad mewn TAW yn ddiddorol time that Alistair Darling made the iawn. Ar yr adeg a wnaeth Alistair Darling yr commitment to that reduction, I do not ymrwymiad i leihau hynny, nid wyf yn cofio remember there being that many voices of llawer o leisiau yn ei gefnogi, er rwy’n barod support, although I stand to be corrected; iawn i Aelod fy nghywiro; efallai yr oedd perhaps Plaid Cymru was vocal in its support Plaid Cymru yn ei gefnogi’n frwdfrydig ar y for it at the time. Certainly, there was more pryd. Yn sicr, yr oedd mwy o bryder am concern about the negative aspects of the agweddau negyddol y gostyngiad na’r reduction than the positive aspects. I agree agweddau cadarnhaol. Cytunaf â Peter Black with Peter Black that there are probably ei bod yn debygol bod ffyrdd gwell y gallai better ways in which the UK Government Llywodraeth y DU ysgogi’r economi ar hyn o could stimulate the economy at this time than bryd nag ymrwymo i ariannu gostyngiad committing to funding a reduction in VAT. mewn TAW. Dylem gofio, ar ddiwedd We should remember that, at the end of a gostyngiad dros dro mewn TAW, bod TAW temporary reduction in VAT, VAT goes back yn mynd yn ôl i fyny. Achosodd hynny up. That did, and does, cause problems. broblemau, a bydd yn parhau i wneud felly.
Simon Thomas: I am interested to know Simon Thomas: Mae gennyf ddiddordeb i what you think the Government should be wybod beth yr ydych yn credu y dylai’r doing now to stimulate the economy. Llywodraeth ei wneud yn awr i ysgogi’r economi.
Nick Ramsay: The UK Government’s policy Nick Ramsay: Mae polisi Llywodraeth y DU on tax, in seeking to take people at the lower ar dreth, wrth geisio cymryd pobl ar waelod y end of the tax bracket out of income tax band treth allan o dreth incwm yn gyfan gwbl altogether is a far better way of injecting yn ffordd llawer gwell o chwistrellu arian i money into the economy. It is also a better mewn i’r economi. Mae hefyd yn ffordd well way of putting money into the pockets of the o roi arian i bocedi o bobl sydd, ar hyn o people who, at this point in time, are having bryd, yn wynebu’r anawsterau mwyaf o ran the most difficulties with the increases across ymdopi â’r cynnydd ar draws yr economi a’r the economy and the increases in inflation, cynnydd mewn chwyddiant, a grybwyllwyd which we were talking about earlier. yn gynharach.
Finally, the Liberal Democrats have called in Yn olaf, mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol their amendment for the Government to work wedi galw yn eu gwelliant i’r Llywodraeth constructively with the Calman-style weithio’n adeiladol gyda’r comisiwn, fydd yn commission. I have spoken with the Minister debyg i gomisiwn Calman. Yr wyf wedi for Finance about this in the past and we are siarad â’r Gweinidog Cyllid am hyn yn y all agreed that a constructive relationship gorffennol ac yr ydym i gyd yn cytuno ei fod between the Government here and the UK yn hanfodol bod perthynas adeiladol rhwng y Government on the Calman-style commission Llywodraeth yma a Llywodraeth y DU o ran is essential. Mike Hedges spoke about y comisiwn fydd yn debyg i gomisiwn borrowing powers, and he is quite right—if Calman. Siaradodd Mike Hedges am bwerau you borrow money, then you must pay it benthyca, ac mae’n hollol iawn—os ydych yn back. There have been certain consequences benthyg arian, yna rhaid i chi ei dalu’n ôl. Bu to the lack of regard that the previous UK rhai canlyniadau oherwydd nad oedd
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Government paid to that, for which we are Llywodraeth flaenorol y DU wedi talu llawer now all paying the price. I am therefore glad o sylw i hynny, ac yr ydym yn awr i gyd yn to see that Mike Hedges is a little bit more talu’r pris. Yr wyf, felly, yn falch bod Mike sensible than some of his colleagues in Hedges ychydig yn fwy synhwyrol na rhai o’i Westminster on that subject. However, the gydweithwyr yn San Steffan ar y pwnc principle of us having borrowing powers hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid ystyried here, in the same way that a local authority yr egwyddor o drosglwyddo pwerau benthyca has prudential borrowing powers, certainly i Gymru, yn yr un modd ag y mae gan needs to be considered. awdurdod lleol bwerau benthyca darbodus.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch yn Please wind up. awr, os gwelwch yn dda.
Nick Ramsay: I will. Nick Ramsay: Gwnaf.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Members Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Mae Aelodau yn are very responsive to my commands this ymateb yn dda iawn i fy ngorchmynion y afternoon. I am very grateful to them and prynhawn yma. Rwy’n ddiolchgar iawn long may it continue. [Laughter.] iddynt gobeithiaf y bydd yn parhau. [Chwerthin.]
Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Hoffwn innau hefyd Llyr Huws Gruffydd: I would also like to ganolbwyntio ar gaffael ac ar gymal 2(b) o’r focus on procurement and on point 2(b) of cynnig, sy’n sôn am y newidiadau i arferion the motion, which refers to changes in caffael, sydd eu hangen. Mae’n bwysig procurement practices, which are needed. It is cydnabod rôl y trydydd sector a mentrau important to recognise the role of the third cymdeithasol o ran caffael cyhoeddus. Yr sector and social enterprises in relation to ydym wedi clywed sawl cyfeiriad at y sector public procurement. We have heard preifat, wrth gwrs, ond rhaid inni beidio ag references to the private sector, of course, but anghofio am rôl mentrau cymdeithasol. Yr we must not forget the role of social oedd adroddiad Beecham rai blynyddoedd yn enterprises. The Beecham report some years ôl yn dweud bod angen rhoi’r dinesydd wrth ago stated the need to put the citizen at the galon y gwasanaeth, a pha well ffordd o heart of services, and what better way of wneud hynny na drwy gaffael gyda mentrau doing that than through procurement with cymdeithasol? Nid yn unig y byddai hynny’n social enterprises? Not only would that rhoi ysgogiad economaidd inni, fel yr ydym provide us with an economic stimulus, which yn awyddus i’w weld, ond, fel yr ydym wedi we are keen to see, but, as we have heard in clywed mewn tystiolaeth, mae’r arian yn fwy evidence, money is more likely to be recycled tebygol o gael ei ailgylchu yn yr economi leol in the local economy if contracts go to the os yw cytundebau’n mynd i’r trydydd sector. third sector. That would help to plug the Byddai hynny’n helpu i lenwi’r tyllau ym holes in the bucket of the local economy, as mwced yr economi leol, fel yr ydym eisoes we have already heard. In addition, the value wedi clywed. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae of the pound is multiplied much more than is gwerth y bunt yn cael ei luosogi gymaint yn the case should the contract go to the private fwy na phe bai’r contract yn mynd i’r sector sector. There is also an additional benefit, preifat. Mae hefyd fudd ychwanegol, sef namely a social benefit, in that we can budd cymdeithasol, gan fod modd i ni empower local communities, strengthen local rymuso cymunedau lleol, cryfhau sgiliau lleol skills and so on. ac yn y blaen.
Felly, rhaid sicrhau bod pres cyhoeddus yn Therefore, we must ensure that public money gweithio’n galetach er budd Cymru, ac nid yn works harder for the benefit of Wales, and y cyd-destun economaidd yn unig. Fodd not only in the economic context. However, bynnag, er mwyn gwireddu hynny, rhaid cael in order to realise that, we need a cultural newid diwylliannol o fewn nifer o adrannau change within a number of procurement
98 21/09/2011 caffael nad ydynt yn wastad yn ystyried departments that still do not consider social mentrau cymdeithasol fel opsiwn credadwy, enterprises as a credible option and do not nac yn cyflwyno tendrau mewn modd always present tenders in an accessible way. hygyrch. Yn wir, mae’r cytundebau yn Indeed, contracts tend to be too large, not dueddol o fod yn rhy fawr, nid yn unig i only for small businesses but for social fusnesau bach ond i fentrau cymdeithasol yn enterprises in particular, and to be bundled enwedig, ac wedi’u pecynnu mewn ffordd unsuitably, and, as we know, the present cuts anaddas, ac, fel yr ydym yn gwybod, mae’r are likely to make that situation worse. toriadau presennol yn debygol o wneud y Therefore, we need to protect against that. sefyllfa honno’n waeth. Felly, rhaid gochel rhag hynny.
4.45 p.m.
Fodd bynnag, ar yr un pryd, rhaid sicrhau However, at the same time, we need to ensure hefyd fod mentrau cymdeithasol yn gallu that social enterprises are able to take full manteisio’n llawn ar unrhyw gyfleoedd. advantage of any opportunities. The One Buddsoddodd Llywodraeth Cymru’n Un yn y Wales Government invested in the sector to sector i hybu twf ynddo drwy gefnogi sefydlu promote its growth by supporting the Cynghrair Mentrau Cymdeithasol Cymru, a establishment of the Welsh Social Enterprise drwy gefnogi’r gwaith y mae Canolfan Coalition, and by supporting the work of the Cydweithredol Cymru yn ei wneud i Wales Co-operative Centre in promoting and hyrwyddo a hybu’r sector. facilitating the sector.
Yr ydym wedi clywed y cyhoeddiad am We have heard this week’s announcement on barthau menter yr wythnos hon, ond beth am enterprise zones, but what about zones for greu parth neu barthau ar gyfer mentrau social enterprises? They could be located in cymdeithasol? Gellid eu lleoli mewn deep rural areas, where the public and private ardaloedd gwledig iawn, lle mae’r sector sectors are shrinking. What social enterprises preifat a’r sector cyhoeddus yn cilio. Yr hyn need is to develop a stronger relationship sydd ei angen ar fentrau cymdeithasol yw with contract commissioners, so that it is datblygu perthynas gryfach â chomisiynwyr easier for them to submit tenders. contractau, fel ei bod yn haws iddynt Appropriate and adequate business support gyflwyno tendrau. Hefyd, dylai cymorth should also be available to social enterprises. busnes priodol a digonol fod ar gael i fentrau Much has been done, but there is much more cymdeithasol yn benodol. Mae llawer wedi’i to achieve. wneud, ond mae llawer mwy i’w gyflawni.
Tan yn ddiweddar, byddai dwy ran o dair o Until recently, two thirds of Welsh public gytundebau sector cyhoeddus Cymru yn sector contracts were awarded to companies mynd i gwmnïau y tu allan i Gymru. Yr oedd from outside Wales. The annual value of gwerth y cytundebau hynny bob blwyddyn yn those contracts was higher than the total fwy na holl werth rhaglen Amcan Un dros value of the Objective One programme over saith mlynedd. Ers hynny, mae’r sefyllfa seven years. The situation has improved, and wedi gwella, ac mae hanner y cytundebau yn half of all contracts now stay in Wales. aros yng Nghymru. Eto i gyd, mae llawer o However, there is a long way to go. More of ffordd i fynd. Rhaid sicrhau nid yn unig fod these contracts must stay in Wales, and more mwy o’r cytundebau hynny yn aros yng must be awarded to social enterprises. Nghymru, ond bod mwy yn cael eu rhoi i fentrau cymdeithasol.
Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed y Gweinidog I was pleased to hear the Minister say earlier yn dweud yn gynharach fod angen bod yn that more courage must be demonstrated in fwy heriol ac yn ddewrach wrth wthio ffiniau challenging the boundaries of procurement rheoliadau caffael, a chroesawaf hynny’n regulations, and I welcome that. That is the
99 21/09/2011 fawr. Dyna’r agwedd fwy creadigol ac more creative and ambitious stand that we are uchelgeisiol yr ydym yn ceisio’i hyrwyddo trying to promote in this motion. yn y cynnig.
Mark Drakeford: Thank you for the Mark Drakeford: Diolch am y cyfle i opportunity to take part in the debate. On the gymryd rhan yn y ddadl. Ar y cyfan, mae’r whole, the debate has been serious in tone, ddadl wedi bod yn ddifrifol o ran tôn, ac mae and that is absolutely right, because it is hynny’n hollol iawn, gan ei bod bron yn almost impossible to exaggerate the dangers amhosibl gorbwysleisio’r peryglon sy’n that face the British economy, now and in the wynebu economi Prydain, yn awr ac yn y months to come. That is a view that is shared misoedd i ddod. Mae honno’n farn sy’n cael by some parties in the Chamber, but not by ei rhannu gan rai pleidiau yn y Siambr, ond all. Some of you will have heard the Chief nid gan bawb. Bydd rhai ohonoch wedi Secretary to the Treasury this morning clywed Prif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys y bore desperately trying to defend the coalition yma yn ceisio’n daer i amddiffyn polisïau Government’s economic policies in the face economaidd y Llywodraeth glymblaid yn of the IMF’s evidence. He referred wyneb tystiolaeth yr IMF. Cyfeiriodd yn persistently to his Government’s policies as gyson at bolisïau ei Lywodraeth fel yr ased the greatest asset that Britain has. It reminded mwyaf sydd gan Brydain. Mae’n fy atgoffa o me of a man who, having decided to go ddyn sydd, ar ôl penderfynu mynd i nofio, yn swimming, has tied a great iron ring around clymu cylch haearn mawr o amgylch ei wddf, his neck, and as he disappears below the ac, wrth iddo ddiflannu o dan y tonnau, waves, he waves to the shore and says, ‘At mae’n chwifio at y lan ac yn dweud, ‘O leiaf least I have an asset’. As the leader of Plaid mae gennyf ased’. Fel y bu i arweinydd Plaid Cymru set out clearly in the first half of his Cymru amlinellu’n glir yn ystod hanner opening contribution, the British economy is cyntaf ei gyfraniad agoriadol, mae economi in exactly that position: disappearing fast Prydain yn yr union sefyllfa honno: mae’n below the waves. That puts an even greater diflannu’n gyflym o dan y tonnau. Mae obligation on the Welsh Government to do hynny’n rhoi hyd yn oed mwy o ddyletswydd everything it can to protect and defend the ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wneud popeth o fewn Welsh economy. However, there is a little bit ei gallu i ddiogelu ac amddiffyn economi of good news, which Members will have Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae ychydig o heard in the Chamber already, which is that newyddion da, a bydd yr Aelodau wedi there is no dearth of ideas about what might clywed y newyddion hynny yn y Siambr yn be done in Wales to do just that. Those ideas barod, sef nad oes prinder syniadau ynglŷn â include—I do not think that they have all beth y gellid ei wneud yng Nghymru i wneud been mentioned so far this afternoon—social hynny. Mae’r syniadau hynny’n cynnwys— impact bonds, a Welsh housing bond, a ac nid wyf yn meddwl eu bod i gyd wedi eu Wales savings super-mutual, and a crybwyll yn barod y prynhawn yma— development bank for Wales that would draw bondiau effaith gymdeithasol, bond tai on the experience of solidarity funds in Cymreig, cwmni cynilo cydfuddiannol a banc Quebec and on the finance that is held by the datblygu ar gyfer Cymru a fyddai’n eight major public sector pension funds. defnyddio profiad cronfeydd cydsefyll Quebec a’r cyllid sy’n cael ei ddal gan yr wyth cronfa pensiwn mawr yn y sector cyhoeddus.
I want to say something about the experience Yr wyf am ddweud rhywbeth am y profiad yn in Quebec, because there are lessons to be Quebec, oherwydd mae gwersi i’w dysgu o’r drawn from it. It is called a solidarity fund, profiad hynny. Fe’i gelwir yn gronfa because it is an $8.2 billion fund that has gydsefyll, gan ei bod yn gronfa $8.2 biliwn grown out of the funds of the trade union sydd wedi tyfu allan o gronfeydd y mudiad movement. These are assets that belong to undebau llafur. Mae’r rhain yn asedau sy’n trade unionists, in their pension funds and in perthyn i undebwyr llafur, yn eu cronfeydd their savings. Those who run the fund say pensiwn ac yn eu cynilion. Mae’r rhai sy’n
100 21/09/2011 that those assets are used in Quebec to be part rhedeg y gronfa yn dweud bod yr asedau of the struggle for full employment and the hynny’n cael eu defnyddio yn Quebec yn struggle to improve conditions for labour in rhan o’r frwydr ar gyfer cyflogaeth lawn a’r the Quebec economy. Last year, the Quebec frwydr i wella’r amodau ar gyfer llafur yn solidarity fund put $25 million aside for a economi Quebec. Y llynedd, rhoddodd new fund for agriculture in that province, in gronfa gydsefyll Quebec $25 miliwn o’r order to provide capital funding for new neilltu ar gyfer cronfa newydd ar gyfer entrants into farming, to provide them with amaethyddiaeth yn y dalaith, er mwyn an equity stake in the purchase of land, and to darparu cyllid cyfalaf ar gyfer newydd- provide them with start-up grants so that, as ddyfodiaid i ffermio, er mwyn rhoi cyfran they said, aspiring young farmers facing a ecwiti iddynt o ran prynu tir, ac i ddarparu tough challenge can get a new start in their grantiau i gychwyn busnes iddynt fel y gall own economy. This year, the solidarity fund ffermwyr ifanc uchelgeisiol sy’n wynebu her has provided $6 million to invest in the anodd ddechrau o’r newydd yn eu heconomi growth of the aerospace industry in Quebec. eu hunain. Eleni, mae’r gronfa gydsefyll wedi This investment will almost double the darparu $6 miliwn i’w buddsoddi yn nhwf y number of high-skilled jobs that that industry diwydiant awyrofod yn Quebec. Bydd y provides. buddsoddiad hwn yn dyblu nifer y swyddi tra medrus y mae’r diwydiant hwnnw yn eu darparu.
Yn hynny o beth, mae gennym yr hyn a In this regard, we have the announcement we glywsom gan y Llywodraeth yr wythnos hon. heard from the Government this week. I Hoffwn groesawu datganiad y Gweinidog would like to welcome the statement by the dros fusnes am gyhoeddi y bydd parthau Minister for business for announcing that menter yng Nghymru. Drwy fuddsoddi mewn there will be enterprise zones in Wales. By sectorau penodol, fel y mae Cwebéc yn investing in certain sectors, as is being done gwneud, bydd yn bosibl adeiladu ar y in Quebec, it is possible to build on those meysydd hynny yn economi Cymru sy’n areas in the Welsh economy that continue to parhau i fod yn gryf. be strong.
This is an example of exactly what the Mae hyn yn enghraifft o beth yn union y Government has done this week, and this can mae’r Llywodraeth wedi’i wneud yr wythnos be seen in the example from Quebec. There hon, a gellir gweld hyn yn yr enghraifft o are ideas that we can use in Wales. Therefore, Quebec. Mae syniadau y gallwn eu defnyddio Minister, we look forward to hearing your yng Nghymru. Felly, Weinidog, yr ydym yn reply to the debate, particularly because we edrych ymlaen at glywed eich ymateb i’r know that we will be relying on your vast ddadl, yn enwedig gan ein bod yn gwybod y experience and your commitment to these byddwn yn dibynnu ar eich profiad helaeth ac things, because the key political task that we eich ymrwymiad i’r pethau hyn, gan fod y face is in taking these new ideas and making dasg wleidyddol allweddol rydym yn ei them a reality in Wales. We are not short of hwynebu yn un o gymryd y syniadau newydd such ideas, but you know, as do those who a’u gwneud yn realiti yng Nghymru. Nid were involved in the One Wales Government, ydym yn brin o syniadau o’r fath, ond rydych that there is a huge amount of passive yn gwybod, fel y gwyddai pawb a oedd yn resistance to new ideas in the machinery of rhan o Lywodraeth Cymru’n Un, fod llawer government. It is a really difficult job, but it iawn o wrthwynebiad goddefol i syniadau is one that relies on key political newydd ym mheirianwaith llywodraeth. determination to take some of the ideas that Mae’n waith anodd iawn, ond mae’n un sy’n we have heard in the Chamber this afternoon dibynnu ar benderfyniad gwleidyddol and put them to work for the benefit of allweddol i gymryd rhai o’r syniadau yr Wales. ydym wedi’u clywed yn y Siambr y prynhawn yma a’u rhoi ar waith er lles Cymru.
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The Minister for Finance and Leader of Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ the House (Jane Hutt): As Mark Drakeford (Jane Hutt): Fel y mae Mark Drakeford has said, the debate on the motion before us wedi ei ddweud, mae’r ddadl ar y cynnig has been serious in tone and it has been a sydd ger ein bron wedi bod yn un ddifrifol o very good debate. This motion usefully and ran naws ac mae wedi bod yn ddadl dda topically highlights the very large cuts that iawn. Mae’r cynnig hwn yn tynnu sylw at y have been planned to our capital funding over toriadau mawr iawn sydd wedi cael eu the next few years. It is right that the motion cynllunio i’n cyllid cyfalaf dros yr ychydig refers to the substantial economic risks that flynyddoedd nesaf mewn ffordd ddefnyddiol we face in the current climate. As Ieuan Wyn ac amserol iawn. Mae’n iawn bod y cynnig Jones said in moving the motion, the IMF yn cyfeirio at y risgiau economaidd made this clear in its latest grim growth sylweddol rydym ni’n eu hwynebu yn yr forecast overnight. There are real risks to the hinsawdd bresennol. Fel y dywedodd Ieuan economy if the UK Government does not Wyn Jones wrth gynnig y cynnig, gwnaeth yr change course, particularly in relation to IMF hyn yn glir yn ei rhagolwg tyfiant capital cuts. We await more information on diweddaraf dros nos, rhagolwg a oedd yn ddu the so-called ‘infrastructure injection’ of £5 iawn. Mae risgiau gwirioneddol i’r economi billion with interest, and we look forward to os na fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn newid hearing what that will mean for us: we need cyfeiriad, yn enwedig o ran toriadau cyfalaf. our share. Yr ydym yn disgwyl rhagor o wybodaeth am yr hwb i isadeiledd o £5 biliwn gyda llog, ac edrychwn ymlaen at glywed beth fydd hyn yn ei olygu i ni: mae angen i ni gael ein cyfran ni.
The debate has also given us the opportunity Mae’r ddadl hefyd wedi rhoi cyfle inni to consider the Welsh Government’s actions ystyried camau gweithredu Llywodraeth in response to these spending cuts and their Cymru mewn ymateb i’r toriadau mewn wider economic consequences. It is no gwariant a’u canlyniadau economaidd exaggeration to describe the cuts to the ehangach i ni. Nid yw’n ormod i ddisgrifio’r capital budget of the Welsh Government as toriadau i gyllideb cyfalaf Llywodraeth ‘severe’. In 2009-10, the last full year under Cymru yn ‘ddifrifol’. Yn 2009-10, y the previous UK Government, £1.9 billion flwyddyn lawn ddiwethaf o dan Lywodraeth was allocated for Wales to finance capital flaenorol y DU, dyrannwyd £1.9 biliwn i investment. By the end of the current Gymru er mwyn ariannu buddsoddiad spending review period under the plans of the cyfalaf. Erbyn diwedd y cyfnod presennol o new UK coalition Government, that budget adolygu gwariant cyfredol o dan gynlluniau will have been cut to just £1.1 billion. This Llywodraeth glymblaid newydd y DU, bydd amounts to a massive 50 per cent real-terms y gyllideb honno wedi cael ei thorri i ddim reduction in investment spending over just ond £1.1 biliwn. Mae hyn yn gyfystyr â five years. gostyngiad enfawr mewn gwariant buddsoddi o 50 y cant mewn termau real dros gyfnod o bum mlynedd.
Andrew R.T. Davies: It is wrong to put Andrew R.T. Davies: Nid yw’n iawn i osod those figures out in that way, because the y ffigurau hynny allan yn y ffordd honno, gan previous Government delayed the fod y Llywodraeth flaenorol wedi gohirio’r comprehensive spending review by 12 adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant am 12 mis months and was managing to cut the ac roedd yn llwyddo i dorri’r gyllideb—am budget—for every £8 that we will be cutting, bob £8 y byddwn ni yn ei dorri, byddech you would be cutting £7. We know from chi’n torri £7. Rydym yn gwybod o Alistair Darling’s diaries that you did not ddyddiaduron Alistair Darling nad oedd have a plan to manage the fiscal situation that gennych gynllun i reoli’r sefyllfa ariannol y this country was facing. That is from your mae’r wlad hon yn ei hwynebu. Mae hynny own Chancellor. oddi wrth eich Canghellor eich hun.
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Jane Hutt: I think that the leader of the Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn meddwl bod angen i opposition needs to remember that the arweinydd yr wrthblaid i gofio nad oedd previous UK Government did not set a Llywodraeth flaenorol y DU wedi gosod capital departmental expenditure limit for terfyn gwariant adrannol ar gyfer cyfalaf i Wales beyond 2010-11. There is not a Welsh Gymru y tu hwnt i 2010-11. Nid oes DEL capital DEL as set by the previous cyfalaf fel y gosodwyd gan y Llywodraeth Government to compare with our actual flaenorol o’i gymharu â’n DEL cyfalaf capital DEL, which represents a massive 50 gwirioneddol, sy’n golygu gostyngiad enfawr per cent real-terms reduction in investment. o 50 y cant mewn buddsoddiad mewn termau real.
I know that Members are waiting to hear the Gwn fod Aelodau yn aros i glywed y gyllideb budget that I will present to the Assembly on y byddaf yn ei chyflwyno i’r Cynulliad ar 4 4 October. That budget will demonstrate the Hydref. Bydd y gyllideb honno yn dangos Welsh Government’s leadership, which has arweinyddiaeth Llywodraeth Cymru—ac mae been called for across the Chamber, and its Aelodau ar draws y Siambr wedi galw am determination to do everything it can to hynny—a’i phenderfyniad i wneud popeth o protect our key public services from the fewn ei gallu i warchod ein gwasanaethau impact of these cuts. Tough decisions will cyhoeddus allweddol rhag effaith y toriadau have to be made, and it is inevitable that cuts hyn. Bydd yn rhaid gwneud penderfyniadau of such magnitude will have real and harmful anodd, ac mae’n anochel y bydd toriadau o’r consequences for our ability to invest in fath yn arwain at ganlyniadau gwirioneddol a Welsh economic infrastructure and will niweidiol o ran ein gallu i fuddsoddi yn impact negatively on our plans for seilwaith economaidd Cymru a bydd yn cael improvement in all areas of devolved effaith negyddol ar ein cynlluniau ar gyfer responsibility. This is a harsh, inescapable gwella ym mhob maes lle mae’r cyfrifoldeb fact. The issue is what we do about it in wedi ei ddatganoli. Mae hon yn ffaith lem, response. anochel. Y broblem yw beth rydym yn ei wneud am y peth wrth ymateb.
The cuts that are being imposed on our Bydd y toriadau sy’n cael eu gorfodi ar ein capital budget will be directly harmful to the cyllideb gyfalaf yn uniongyrchol niweidiol i infrastructure of our public services. I believe seilwaith ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. that they will be damaging to the wider Credaf y byddant yn niweidiol i’r economi economy. The motion is correct to draw ehangach. Mae’r cynnig yn iawn i dynnu attention to the challenging economic climate sylw at yr hinsawdd economaidd heriol we face in Wales and the resulting threat to rydym ni’n ei hwynebu yng Nghymru a’r jobs, which Simon Thomas highlighted. The bygythiad sy’n deillio o hynny o ran swyddi, Welsh Government recognises the need for a a chrybwyllwyd hynny gan Simon Thomas. credible deficit-reduction strategy over the Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydnabod yr medium term, as Nick Ramsay angen am strategaeth gredadwy i leihau’r acknowledged. We have always said that we diffyg ariannol yn y tymor canolig, fel y will play our part, but we have repeatedly cydnabu Nick Ramsay. Yr ydym bob amser argued that the UK Government’s planned wedi dweud y byddwn yn chwarae ein rhan, cuts go too far too fast, as Mike Hedges said. ond yr ydym wedi dadlau dro ar ôl tro bod Far from providing a solid basis for deficit toriadau arfaethedig Llywodraeth y DU yn reduction, they risk undermining the mynd yn rhy bell yn rhy gyflym, fel y economic recovery and perhaps even tipping dywedodd Mike Hedges. Ymhell o ddarparu us back into recession. sylfaen gadarn ar gyfer lleihau diffyg, maent mewn perygl o danseilio adferiad economaidd ac efallai hyd yn oed yn ein harwain yn ôl i ddirwasgiad.
I want to move on to the call for a temporary Yr wyf am symud ymlaen at yr alwad am
103 21/09/2011 cut in VAT in response to the challenging doriad dros dro mewn TAW mewn ymateb economic climate we face. It is certainly one i’r hinsawdd economaidd heriol rydym ni’n measure that could usefully be taken by the ei hwynebu. Mae’n sicr yn un mesur y UK Government as a kick-start to the byddai’n ddefnyddiol i Lywodraeth y DU ei economy, as Simon Thomas said. I am happy gymryd fel fordd o hybu’r economi, fel y to endorse calls to lower the VAT burden in dywedodd Simon Thomas. Yr wyf yn hapus i the current circumstances. Indeed, earlier this gefnogi’r galwadau i ostwng y baich TAW year, I wrote to the Chancellor urging him to yn yr amgylchiadau presennol. Yn wir, yn temporarily reduce the rate of VAT on gynharach eleni, ysgrifennais at y Canghellor building repairs. That call came directly from i’w annog i ostwng dros dro y gyfradd TAW the Federation of Master Builders—from the ar atgyweiriadau adeiladau. Daeth yr alwad construction sector—which asked me to ask honno yn uniongyrchol gan Ffederasiwn y the Chancellor. Unfortunately, the response Meistr Adeiladwyr—o’r sector adeiladu—a was negative. ofynnodd i mi i ofyn hynny i’r Canghellor. Yn anffodus, roedd yr ymateb yn un negyddol.
Peter Black: I very much support the Peter Black: Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r cynnig i proposal to reduce VAT on building repairs. leihau TAW ar atgyweiriadau adeiladau yn It was, of course, a motion that was passed a fawr iawn. Yr oedd, wrth gwrs, yn gynnig a number of times in this Chamber and put to basiwyd nifer o weithiau yn y Siambr hon a’i the previous Labour Government, which also roi i’r Llywodraeth Lafur flaenorol, a wnaeth rejected it. hefyd ei wrthod.
Jane Hutt: My call was to the current Jane Hutt: Bu i mi alw ar y Canghellor Chancellor, and I hope that you will join me presennol, ac yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch now— yn ymuno â mi nawr—
Peter Black: You did not do it, so why Peter Black: Ni wnaethoch chi hynny, felly should we? pam y dylem ni?
Jane Hutt: That is a very useful contribution Jane Hutt: Mae hynny’n gyfraniad from Peter Black. Join me and give me your defnyddiol iawn gan Peter Black. Ymunwch support, Peter, as I raise the issue again with â mi a rhowch eich cefnogaeth, Peter, wrth i the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. mi godi’r mater eto gyda Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys.
I am glad that the leader of Plaid Cymru Yr wyf yn falch bod arweinydd Plaid Cymru recognises the need for us to move on and to yn cydnabod yr angen i ni symud ymlaen ac i do so constructively, and I want to move on wneud hynny yn adeiladol, ac yr wyf am swiftly to the action that the Welsh symud ymlaen yn gyflym at y camau y mae Government is taking in response to the Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ymateb challenges we face. As Members are aware, i’r heriau rydym ni’n eu hwynebu. Fel y gŵyr the First Minister met the Chancellor, George Aelodau, bu i’r Prif Weinidog gyfarfod â’r Osborne, in July to discuss reform of the way Canghellor, George Osborne, ym mis in which Wales is financed. Those Gorffennaf i drafod diwygio’r ffordd y mae discussions were constructive, and we have Cymru’n cael ei hariannu. Roedd y now entered inter-governmental discussions trafodaethau hynny yn adeiladol, ac rydym on funding reform with the UK Government. bellach wedi dechrau trafodaethau In those talks, we are pressing for access to rhynglywodraethol ar ddiwygio cyllido gyda borrowing powers to finance capital spending Llywodraeth y DU. Yn y trafodaethau hynny, along with a fairer funding settlement that yr ydym yn pwyso am fynediad at bwerau would put our block grant on a sustainable benthyca i ariannu gwariant cyfalaf ynghyd â footing. We are all signed up to this across setliad ariannu tecach a fyddai’n rhoi ein the Chamber, as the July debate grant bloc ar sylfaen gynaliadwy. Rydym i
104 21/09/2011 demonstrated. gyd yn cefnogi hyn ar draws y Siambr, fel y dangoswyd yn ystod y ddadl ym mis Gorffennaf.
I want to reassure Paul Davies that we are Yr wyf am sicrhau Paul Davies ein bod yn seeking borrowing powers along the lines of ceisio pwerau benthyca yn unol â’r hyn sydd the Holtham commission’s independent yn adroddiad annibynnol comisiwn Holtham. report. Our initial priority will be to seek Ein blaenoriaeth gyntaf fydd ceisio mynediad rapid access to borrowing powers. The debt cyflym at bwerau benthyca. Mae’r swyddfa management office is likely to provide the rheoli dyledion yn debygol o ddarparu’r simplest, most cost-effective and quickest llwybr symlaf, mwyaf cost-effeithiol a route to making progress, but, of course, that chyflymaf i wneud cynnydd, ond, wrth gwrs, is what we have to do in the sense of being dyna’r hyn yr ydym wedi ei wneud, yn yr guided by the need to secure the best deal for ystyr o gael ei harwain gan yr angen i Wales. Paul Davies and Mike Hedges also sicrhau’r fargen orau i Gymru. Bu i Paul made the point that we have to recognise the Davies a Mike Hedges hefyd wneud y pwynt legitimate issue of the interest the UK bod yn rhaid i ni gydnabod y sefyllfa o ran Government has with regard to managing the diddordeb y DU yn y mater o reoli sefyllfa fiscal position of the UK as a whole. With gyllidol y DU gyfan. O ran pwerau benthyca, regard to borrowing powers, we must mae’n rhaid inni gydnabod y gallai fod rhai recognise that there could be some cyfyngiadau ar allu Llywodraeth Cymru i constraints on the ability of the Welsh fenthyca. Government to borrow.
However, we are ready for it. The position Fodd bynnag, rydym yn barod ar ei gyfer. with regard to borrowing powers is complex, Mae’r sefyllfa o ran pwerau benthyca yn but, as I previously reported to the Chamber, gymhleth, ond, fel yr adroddais yn flaenorol we have the powers required, as i’r Siambr, mae gennym y pwerau demonstrated by the merger of the Welsh angenrheidiol, fel y dangoswyd drwy uno Development Agency into the Welsh Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru â Llywodraeth Government. We are also committed to Cymru. Rydym hefyd wedi ymrwymo i seeking that positive relationship, alongside geisio perthynas gadarnhaol, ochr yn ochr â’r the inter-governmental talks, with the UK trafodaethau rhynglywodraethol, gyda Government commission on devolution in chomisiwn Llywodraeth y DU ar ddatganoli Wales. I am happy to have that fact put on yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn hapus i’r ffaith record. There is no question about cross-party hynny gael ei gofnodi. Nid oes unrhyw support for what Peter Black’s amendment 6 gwestiwn am gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol ar calls for with regard to that commission. gyfer yr hyn y mae gwelliant 6 Peter Black Constructive bilateral engagement with the yn ei geisio o ran y comisiwn hwnnw. Mae UK Government is one route we are pursuing ymgysylltu adeiladol gyda Llywodraeth y to offset the damage caused by cuts to our DU yn un llwybr yr ydym yn ei geisio er capital budget. mwyn gwneud yn iawn am y difrod a achosir gan doriadau i’n cyllideb gyfalaf.
Paul Davies, I think that it is important that I Paul Davies, yr wyf yn meddwl ei bod yn reassure you that we are using the European bwysig fy mod yn eich sicrhau ein bod yn Investment Bank and supporting housing defnyddio Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop ac yn investment across Wales through the cefnogi buddsoddiad mewn tai ledled Cymru registered social landlords. Another useful drwy landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig. source of finance support for small business Ffynhonnell ddefnyddiol arall o gymorth investment in Wales is JEREMIE. In ariannol ar gyfer buddsoddiad busnesau bach response to Mark Drakeford, I can assure you yng Nghymru yw JEREMIE. Mewn ymateb i that there is no passive resistance. On Welsh Mark Drakeford, gallaf eich sicrhau nad oes housing bonds, let us learn more about the unrhyw wrthwynebiad goddefol. Ar fondiau Quebec solidarity fund. I am sure that tai Cymru, gadewch i ni ddysgu mwy am
105 21/09/2011 colleagues across the Chamber will recognise gronfa gydsefyll Quebec. Yr wyf yn siŵr y that. bydd cyd-Aelodau ar draws y Siambr yn cydnabod hynny.
5.00 p.m.
We are taking a strategic approach. We are Rydym yn cymryd ymagwedd strategol. Yr developing an infrastructure plan for Wales ydym yn datblygu cynllun seilwaith i Gymru to optimise value for money through sound i sicrhau’r gwerth gorau posibl am arian drwy investment, to identify key strategic fuddsoddiad cadarn, i nodi buddsoddiad investment, to encourage inward investment strategol allweddol, i annog and to improve delivery. That will bring mewnfuddsoddiad ac i wella’r cyflawni. together a range of stakeholders to scope and Byddai hynny’n dwyn ynghyd amrywiaeth o develop a 10-year dedicated plan to randdeiliaid i gwmpasu ac i ddatblygu demonstrate that direction of travel alongside cynllun pwrpasol 10 mlynedd i ddangos y a rolling investment pipeline. So, the fact that cyfeiriad hwnnw ochr yn ochr â phiblinell we are taking these and other steps forward fuddsoddi treigl. Felly, mae’r ffaith ein bod demonstrates that we are pursuing a wide ni’n cymryd y camau hyn ac eraill camau range of initiatives to protect and support ymlaen yn dangos ein bod yn dilyn economic recovery in Wales. This debate can amrywiaeth eang o fentrau i ddiogelu a usefully add to taking forward this case for chefnogi adferiad economaidd yng Nghymru. change. Diolch. Gall y ddadl hon ychwanegu at ddatblygu’r achos hwn ar gyfer newid. Diolch.
Alun Ffred Jones: Diolch i bawb sydd wedi Alun Ffred Jones: I thank everyone who has cyfrannu i’r ddadl hon sy’n mynd â ni i faes contributed to this debate, which takes us into sy’n gwbl allweddol i deuluoedd ac, yn a crucial area for families and, especially, arbennig, pobl ifanc mewn trefi a phentrefi o young people in towns and villages from Fôn i Fynwy. Mae Ieuan Wyn Jones a Mark Anglesey to Monmouthshire. Ieuan Wyn Drakeford wedi tanlinellu ein bod yn byw Jones and Mark Drakeford have underlined mewn cyfnod o beryglon economaidd, ac the fact that we are living in a period of mae’r rhybuddion yn glir. Os na fydd economic dangers, and the warnings are Llywodraethau’r byd yn cydweithio i greu a clear. Unless global Governments collaborate symbylu twf, byddwn yn wynebu dirwasgiad to generate growth, we will be facing an even gwaeth na’r un yr ydym newydd ei brofi. worse recession than the one that we have Mae Aelodau hefyd wedi cyfeirio at rybudd just experienced. Members have also referred yr IMF heddiw. to the warnings of the IMF today.
Y cwestiwn hollbwysig i ni yw: a yw The crucial question for us is whether the Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud popeth Welsh Government is doing everything posibl i warchod swyddi a chreu gwaith o possible within the powers that it holds to fewn y pwerau sydd ganddi? Hyd yma, ein protect jobs and to create employment. To barn ni ym Mhlaid Cymru yw nad oes date, our opinion in Plaid Cymru is that there tystiolaeth bendant bod hynny’n digwydd. is no direct evidence that that is the case. Mae Ieuan wedi cyfeirio at yr angen i ddenu Ieuan referred to the need to attract ffynonellau ariannu newydd er mwyn rhoi alternative funding sources in order to boost hwb i’r diwydiant adeiladu a gwella’r the construction industry and to improve the isadeiledd a gwasanaethau. Dyna oedd dadl infrastructure and services. That was the case Gerry Holtham cyn yr haf—dywedodd fod y put forward by Gerry Holtham before the diwydiant adeiladu yn cyflogi’n lleol, yn summer—he said that the construction gweithredu’n eang ar draws Cymru, a’i fod industry employs locally, it works across the yn cael effaith uniongyrchol. Dywedodd board in Wales and has a direct impact. Ieuan Ieuan a Mark Drakeford hefyd fod rhaid inni and Mark Drakeford also said that we need to edrych am yr atebion hyn o fewn ein pwerau look for these solutions within the powers yng Nghymru ac na ddylem obeithio y bydd that we have in Wales and that we should not
106 21/09/2011 rhywbeth gwell yn dod o rywle arall. Yr oedd be hoping that something better will come rhai o sylwadau’r Ceidwadwyr a’r from elsewhere. Some of the comments made Rhyddfrydwyr yn sôn am syniadau rywdro by the Conservatives and the Liberals were yn y dyfodol gan anwybyddu’r realiti sy’n about ideas and concepts for the future, wynebu ein pobl ifanc ni a gweithwyr ar hyd ignoring the reality that currently faces our a lled Cymru. young people and workers the length and breadth of Wales.
Yr wyf am gyfeirio’n fyr at yr angen i I want to refer briefly to the need to use our ddefnyddio ein pwerau caffael i hybu procurement powers to promote Welsh diwydiannau Cymru a chynyddu cyflogaeth. industry and to increase employment. Mae’r Athro Kevin Morgan wedi dadlau yn Professor Kevin Morgan has argued robustly gryf y gellid creu tua 4,000 o gyfleon that some 4,000 new employment cyflogaeth newydd bob blwyddyn—40,000 opportunities could be created per annum— mewn 10 mlynedd—dim ond inni fod yn fwy 40,000 in 10 years—if only we were wiser doeth a chyfrwys wrth osod cytundebau yn y and cannier in awarding public sector sector cyhoeddus. Fel y dywedodd Leanne contracts. As Leanne Wood said, locally Wood, mae contractau lleol yn cadw’r arian i awarded contracts keep the money circulating gylchdroi o fewn y gymuned leol yn fwy more effectively in the local community. effeithiol. Mae’r ffeithiau hyn yn wybyddus i These facts are well-known to all. Public bawb. Mae cyrff cyhoeddus yn gwario rhwng bodies spend between £3.5 billion and just £3.5 biliwn a mwy na £4 biliwn bob over £4 billion per annum and, according to blwyddyn ac, yn ôl y ffigurau diweddaraf, the latest figures, around half of those mae tua hanner y contractau hynny yn mynd i contracts are awarded to companies from gwmnïau o Gymru. Mae’r cynnydd y Wales. The increase that has been referred cyfeiriwyd ato, sef y cynnydd yn nifer y to—the increase in contracts awarded to contractau sy’n cael eu gosod i gwmnïau o companies from Wales from 35 per cent to Gymru o 35 y cant i tua 50 y cant, yn dda some 50 per cent—is very positive and is to iawn ac yn rhywbeth i’w groesawu. Fodd be welcomed. However, is the increase of 2 bynnag, a yw cynnydd o 2 y cant y flwyddyn per cent per annum adequate in the situation yn ddigon yn y sefyllfa yr ydym yn ei that we currently face? The answer to that is hwynebu? Yn fy marn i, yr ateb yw ‘na’. Mae ‘no’. Plaid Cymru is saying clearly that we Plaid Cymru’n dweud yn glir y dylem anelu should aim to have three quarters of contracts at gael tri chwarter y contractau hynny yn being awarded to companies from Wales. mynd i gwmnïau o Gymru. Nid yw hynny’n That does not mean, as Mike Hedges meddwl—fel yr awgrymodd Mike Hedges— suggested, that we want that figure to reach ein bod am i’r ffigur gyrraedd 100 y cant ac 100 per cent and that only companies from mai dim ond cwmnïau o Gymru ddylai gael Wales should receive contracts. However, we contractau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni have to use the money available to promote ddefnyddio’r arian sydd gennym i hybu ein our economy. I accept that there has been an heconomi. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod cynnydd increase in the past few years, but we need to wedi digwydd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, change gear quite quickly given the situation ond rhaid i ni newid gêr yn sylweddol yn y that we are facing. sefyllfa sydd ohoni.
Nid oes gennyf amser i drafod yr holl I do not have enough time to discuss all the sylwadau sydd wedi cael eu gwneud heddiw, comments that have been made today, but I ond hoffwn sôn am sylwadau Nick Ramsay will mention Nick Ramsay’s comments on am ddiwygio Barnett. Mae hynny yn iawn, the reform of Barnett. That would be great, ond os ydych yn sôn am gyfnod o flwyddyn, but if you are looking at a period of a year or dwy flynedd neu dair blynedd, nid yw’r math two or three, that sort of time is not available hwnnw o amser gennym, yn anffodus, yn y to us, unfortunately, in the situation that sefyllfa sydd ohoni. currently exists.
There are several challenges in terms of Ceir nifer o heriau o ran caffael gyhoeddus,
107 21/09/2011 public procurement, not least some of the yn enwedig rhai o gyfarwyddebau’r Undeb European Union directives that are certainly Ewropeaidd sydd, yn sicr, yn fwriadol llym, deliberately stringent, but are not ond nad ydynt yn anorchfygol. Mae’r insurmountable. The tough economic climate hinsawdd economaidd anodd yn golygu bod means that big companies are looking for cwmnïau mawr yn chwilio am gontractau llai smaller contracts that they would have y byddent wedi’u hanwybyddu yn y ignored in the past. There is no doubt that gorffennol. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth bod depleted budgets often drive public bodies to cyllidebau sydd wedi’u disbyddu yn aml yn take on the cheapest option regardless, and achosi i gyrff cyhoeddus i fanteisio ar yr regardless means no local labour or suppliers, opsiwn rhataf waeth beth, a mae ‘waeth beth’ and possibly inferior materials or services as yn golygu nad oes unrhyw lafur na well. One weakness is the lack of expertise in chyflenwyr lleol, na deunyddiau neu the public sector; there is one estimate that gwasanaethau israddol, o bosibl, yn ogystal. only about 130 public sector managers have Un gwendid yw’r diffyg arbenigedd yn y the proper professional qualifications. There sector cyhoeddus; ceir un amcangyfrif bod is a skills deficit there that needs to be gan dim ond tua 130 o reolwyr sector addressed. cyhoeddus y cymwysterau proffesiynol priodol. Ceir diffyg sgiliau yno sydd angen sylw.
Simon Thomas made a persuasive case for Cyflwynodd Simon Thomas ddadl lowering VAT and possibly targeting that argyhoeddiadol ar gyfer gostwng TAW ac o reduction at certain areas, which can make a bosibl targedu’r gostyngiad hwnnw at rai difference within a short period of time. ardaloedd penodol, sy’n gallu gwneud gwahaniaeth o fewn cyfnod byr o amser.
In terms of the amendments, amendment 1 in O ran y gwelliannau, mae gwelliant 1 yn the name of William Graham that aims to enw William Graham, sy’n ceisio dileu ‘y delete ‘the severe cuts in capital funding’ is toriadau difrifol mewn cyllid cyfalaf’ yn clearly a case of dodging an unpalatable fact. amlwg yn achos o osgoi’r ffaith annymunol. Peter Black tried to blame Alistair Darling, Ceisiodd Peter Black roi’r bai ar Alistair who in turn blames Gordon Brown. This may Darling, sydd yn ei dro’n beio Gordon be true, but he is also guilty of avoiding the Brown. Gall hyn fod yn wir, ond mae hefyd stark facts. yn euog o osgoi’r ffeithiau moel.
Amendment 3 in the name of Jane Hutt is a Mae gwelliant 3 yn enw Jane Hutt yn un clever one and concerns deleting the words glyfar ynghylch dileu’r geiriau ‘diffyg’ o ran ‘lack of’ in relation to action. The whole gweithredu. Holl bwynt y ddadl hon yw y bu point of this debate is that there has been a diffyg gweithredu. [Chwerthin.] Felly, mae’n lack of action. [Laughter.] Therefore, I am ddrwg gennyf, ond rhaid imi ei wrthod. sorry, but I have to reject it. [Interruption.] It [Torri ar draws.] Roedd yn ymgais dda. Yr was a nice try. We also reject amendments 4 ydym hefyd yn gwrthod gwelliannau 4 a 5. and 5.
We reluctantly accept amendment 6 in the Yr ydym yn derbyn, o’n hanfodd, gwelliant 6 name of Peter Black. It is a typical Liberal yn enw Peter Black. Mae’n welliant amendment that calls for us to work with the Rhyddfrydol nodweddiadol sy’n galw am process. I think that many people out there inni weithio gyda’r broses. Credaf y byddai would say that we are too obsessed with llawer o bobl allan yna yn dweud bod process in this place, and that what is needed gennym ormod o obsesiwn gyda phroses yn y in this case is action. lle hwn, a’r hyn sydd angen yn yr achos hwn yw gweithredu.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: The Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar proposal is to agree the motion without y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A yw unrhyw
108 21/09/2011 amendment. Does any Member object? I see Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod that there are objections. I will defer voting gwrthwynebiadau. Byddaf yn gohirio’r on this item until voting time. pleidleisio ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Voting deferred until voting time.
Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig Welsh Conservatives Debate
Llywodraeth Leol Local Government
The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol selected amendment 1 in the name of Jane gwelliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt, gwelliant 2 yn Hutt, amendment 2 in the name of Jocelyn enw Jocelyn Davies a gwelliannau 3, 4 a 5 yn Davies and amendments 3, 4 and 5 in the enw Peter Black. name of Peter Black.
Cynnig NDM4799 William Graham Motion NDM4799 William Graham
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Yn mynegi pryder ynghylch y diffyg 1. Expresses concern about the lack of tryloywder gan Lywodraeth Cymru ynghylch transparency from the Welsh Government dyfodol llywodraeth leol; regarding the future of local government;
2. Yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd bod 2. Recognises the importance of local llywodraeth leol yn rhan sylfaenol o government as being fundamental to ddemocratiaeth yng Nghymru; a democracy in Wales; and
3. Yn galw am ddadl lawn ac agored 3. Calls for a full and open debate on the ynghylch cyflenwi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. delivery of public services.
Janet Finch-Saunders: I move the motion. Janet Finch-Saunders: Cynigiaf y cynnig.
I take great pleasure in opening this debate Mae’n bleser mawr gennyf agor y ddadl hon and proposing the motion as above. I believe a chynnig y cynnig fel y nodir uchod. Credaf that the time has come for a much wider fod yr amser wedi dod ar gyfer trafodaeth debate across Wales to include all lawer ehangach ledled Cymru i gynnwys holl stakeholders and service users so that we can randdeiliaid a defnyddwyr gwasanaeth fel y achieve a level of democratic and transparent gallwn gyflawni lefel o lywodraethu corporate governance for each of our local corfforaethol democrataidd a thryloyw ar authorities and communities. However, there gyfer pob un o’n hawdurdodau lleol a’n is a huge sense of demoralisation and concern cymunedau. Fodd bynnag, ceir ymdeimlad across Wales regarding the future prospects mawr o ddigalondid a phryder ledled Cymru for local authorities, and the lack of clarity ynghylch y rhagolygon ar gyfer awdurdodau around the expectations placed on them. lleol, a diffyg eglurder ynghylch y disgwyliadau sydd arnynt.
Local authorities are facing an ever-greater Mae awdurdodau lleol yn wynebu mwy fyth degree of financial cutbacks and efficiency o doriadau ariannol ac arbedion
109 21/09/2011 savings like never before, while attempting to effeithlonrwydd fel nag erioed o’r blaen, work across their natural borders as part of tra’n ceisio gweithio ar draws eu ffiniau the collaboration agenda. This has not been naturiol fel rhan o’r agenda gydweithredu. helped in the slightest by the bombshell news Nid yw hyn wedi’i helpu yn y lleiaf gan y that came forward as part of the recent newyddion taranfollt a ddaeth gerbron fel announcement of the Cabinet blueprint rhan o gyhoeddiad diweddar adroddiad report, ‘Public Service Reform: Promoting glasbrint y Cabinet, ‘Diwygio Gwasanaeth Regional Coherence’. While we would all Cyhoeddus: Hyrwyddo Cysoni Rhanbarthol’. agree that greater collaboration, sharing Er y byddem oll yn cytuno bod mwy o services and seeking the best models for gydweithredu, rhannu gwasanaethau a efficiency are crucial, the Welsh Government chwilio am y modelau gorau ar gyfer must not be allowed to radically reorganise effeithlonrwydd yn hollbwysig, rhaid peidio â our councils without the level of democratic gadael Llywodraeth Cymru i ad-drefnu ein discussion and debate that our partners and cynghorau mewn ffordd radical heb o leiaf y residents across Wales deserve at the very lefel o drafodaeth ddemocrataidd a’r ddadl y least. mae ein partneriaid a’n trigolion ledled Cymru yn ei haeddu.
Many councils are already leading the way Mae nifer o gynghorau eisoes yn arwain y on the collaboration agenda, working ffordd ar yr agenda gydweithredu, ac yn together to bring about sustainable, well- gweithio gyda’i gilydd i sicrhau planned services within a lean and efficient gwasanaethau cynaliadwy, sydd wedi’u framework. Others have already spent cynllunio’n dda o fewn fframwaith darbodus precious local resources working with other ac effeithlon. Mae eraill eisoes wedi gwario partners to look at scoping studies to find a adnoddau lleol gwerthfawr yn gweithio gyda realistic and effective approach to phartneriaid eraill i edrych ar astudiaethau collaboration in its true sense. This recent cwmpasu i ddod o hyd i ymagwedd realistig undermining of the work undertaken thus far, ac effeithiol i gydweithredu yn ei wir ystyr. together with the sledgehammer approach Mae’r tanseilio diweddar hwn o’r gwaith a taken by the Minister, is further evidence that wnaed hyd yn hyn, ynghyd â’r dull anaddas a the Welsh Government is not as committed to gymerwyd gan y Gweinidog, yn dystiolaeth the localism agenda as it professes. It still bellach nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru mor believes that a top-down approach is best. ymrwymedig i’r agenda lleoliaeth ag y mae’n ei honni. Mae’n dal i gredu mai’r dull o weithredu o’r brig i lawr yw’r gorau.
This can be seen with the ever-increasing Mae hyn i’w weld yn y swm cynyddol o amount of hypothecated grants. Last year, grantiau sydd wedi’u neilltuo. Y llynedd, there was a £38.5 million increase, so there is cafwyd cynnydd o £38.5 miliwn, felly mae £765 million-worth of hypothecated funding. gwerth £765 miliwn o arian wedi’i neilltuo. Is that not control at its best? On 15 February, Onid yw hynny’n rheolaeth ar ei gorau? Ar the current Minister for Local Government 15 Chwefror, fe wnaeth y Gweinidog and Communities—yes, I said ‘local’ and I Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau said ‘communities’—stated that: presennol—ie, dywedais ‘lleol’ a dywedais ‘cymunedau’— ddatgan:
‘I am not prepared to give free rein regarding Nid wyf yn barod i roi rhwydd hynt ynghylch the funding and to give everything to local y cyllid a rhoi popeth i lywodraeth leol pan government when we know that it would not fyddwn yn gwybod na fyddai’n darparu’r deliver the services for which we hypothecate gwasanaethau yr ydym yn neilltuo cyllid ar funding…That is not something that my eu cyfer...Nid yw hynny’n rhywbeth y mae fy ministerial colleagues and I want to see.’ nghyd-Weinidogion a minnau am ei weld.
That is again rather a controlling and Unwaith eto, datganiad rheolaethol a damniol damning statement. The regional Member for yw hynny. Dywedodd yr Aelod rhanbarthol
110 21/09/2011
North Wales Mark Isherwood AM said ar gyfer Gogledd Cymru, Mark Isherwood, during the last debate on this in the Chamber: yn ystod y ddadl ddiwethaf ar hyn yn y Siambr:
‘We must empower rather than overpower ‘Rhaid inni rymuso pobl leol yn hytrach na’u local people, giving them a say in the running llethu, gan roi llais iddynt wrth redeg of public services.’ gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.’
That is as true today as it was then, yet the Mae hynny’r un mor wir heddiw ag yr oedd Minister now feels that he can single- ar y pryd, ac eto mae’r Gweinidog bellach yn handedly reorganise local government by teimlo y gall, ar ei liwt ei hunain, ad-drefnu stealth, allowing our stakeholders to feel llywodraeth leol yn llechwraidd, yn caniatáu disengaged, remote and centrally controlled i’n rhanddeiliaid i deimlo’n ddatgyweddog, by the Welsh Labour Government in Cardiff. yn anghysbell ac fel petai y rheolir yn In the recent Assembly elections, all the ganolog gan Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru yng political parties professed to support and Nghaerdydd. Yn etholiadau diweddar y signed up to the localism agenda, yet here we Cynulliad, roedd yr holl bleidiau gwleidyddol are again, asking the Welsh Labour yn honni eu cefnogaeth ac ymrwymiad i’r Government not to renege on those pre- agenda lleoliaeth, eto dyma ni unwaith eto, election promises by seeking to control and yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru i beidio dominate our local communities with its â thorri’r addewidion hynny a wnaed cyn yr ideological, political dogma that is now in etholiad gan geisio rheoli a dominyddu ar ein danger of destroying those very principles. cymunedau lleol gyda’i dogma gwleidyddol, ideolegol sydd bellach mewn perygl o ddinistrio’r union egwyddorion hynny.
If we look at the localism agenda that is Os edrychwn ar yr agenda lleoliaeth sydd already enriching service delivery across eisoes yn cyfoethogi cyflenwi gwasanaethau England, we see that there is greater ar draws Lloegr, gwelwn fod mwy o consumer engagement as a result of a more ymgysylltiad defnyddwyr o ganlyniad i ddull transparent and accountable approach. The mwy tryloyw ac atebol. Mae’r egwyddor sy’n principle that requires councils to publish all ei gwneud yn ofynnol i gynghorau gyhoeddi items of expenditure over £500 is a fine pob eitem o wariant dros £500 yn enghraifft example of greater transparency and wych o fwy o dryloywder ac atebolrwydd. Ar accountability. At the same time, it is yr un pryd, mae’n agor i fyny’r prosesau opening up the tender processes so that tendro fel bod contractwyr lleol llai yn gallu smaller local contractors can step up to the ymateb i’r her. Mae’n enghraifft o arloesi nad mark. It is an innovation that is not as yet argymhellir gan Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru advocated by the Welsh Labour Government, eto, ond fe’i gwelir yng Nghymru yn y ddau but it is seen in Wales at the two Welsh gyngor dan arweiniad Ceidwadwyr Cymru Conservative-led councils in Newport and the yng Nghasnewydd a Bro Morgannwg. Mae’r Vale of Glamorgan. Those councils are to be cynghorau hynny i’w canmol am eu dull commended for their innovative and arloesol a chynhwysol. inclusive approach.
The Welsh Conservatives are keen to Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn awyddus i empower our local authorities, our rymuso ein hawdurdodau lleol, ein stakeholders and our service users across rhanddeiliaid a defnyddwyr ein gwasanaethau Wales to work together with a purposeful ledled Cymru i gydweithio â gweledigaeth a direction and vision. chyfeiriad pwrpasol.
Mike Hedges rose— Mike Hedges a gododd—
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. I do Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Nid wyf yn not think that the Member intends to give credu bod yr Aelod yn bwriadu ildio yn ystod
111 21/09/2011 way during this speech. yr araith hon.
Janet Finch-Saunders: We also want to see Janet Finch-Saunders: Hoffwn weld hefyd collective responsibility for delivering cyfrifoldeb ar y cyd ar gyfer darparu citizen-based priorities and services as blaenoriaethau a darparwyd ar sail y dinesydd opposed to the current culture of Cardiff- yn hytrach na’r diwylliant presennol o centric pressure and control that has now bwysau a rheolaeth sydd â Chaerdydd yn almost become the trademark of the Welsh ganolbwynt iddynt ac sydd bellach bron yn devolution process. A true and meaningful nod masnach y broses ddatganoli. Mae Welsh devolution is one that sets free the true datganoli Cymru wir ac ystyrlon yn un sy’n spirit of localism, so that it rests firmly with rhyddhau gwir ysbryd lleoliaeth, fel ei bod yn those that all of us seek to serve in our aros yn gadarn gyda’r rhai y mae pob un communities the length and breadth of ohonom yn ceisio gwasanaethu yn ein Wales. As a councillor, I have a great deal of cymunedau ar hyd a lled Cymru. Fel respect for our local councils and councillors cynghorydd, mae gennyf lawer o barch at ein across Wales. For years, they have been at cynghorau lleol a chynghorwyr ledled the front line and the very heart of Welsh Cymru. Ers blynyddoedd, maent wedi bod ar local democracy. We should do our best to y rheng flaen ac wrth wraidd democratiaeth work with them as we bring about change. leol Cymru. Dylem wneud ein gorau i These local authorities are also about people weithio gyda nhw wrth inni beri newid. and the thousands of good men and women Mae’r awdurdodau lleol hyn hefyd ynglŷn â dedicated to providing the best-quality phobl ac mae miloedd o ddynion a menywod services day in, day out, often supporting the da sy’n ymroddedig i ddarparu gwasanaethau most vulnerable members of our o’r ansawdd gorau o ddydd i ddydd, yn aml communities, while, at the same time, facing yn cefnogi aelodau mwyaf bregus ein an ever-increasing level of bureaucracy, cymunedau, tra, ar yr un pryd, yn wynebu regulation and diktat that often emanates lefel gynyddol o fiwrocratiaeth, rheoleiddio a from here. dictad sy’n aml yn deillio o’r fan hon.
The Welsh Labour Government’s obsession Mae obsesiwn Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru â with centralisation and standardisation fails chanoli a safoni yn methu â chydnabod y to recognise the differing needs and gwahanol anghenion a dyheadau cymunedau aspirations of local communities across lleol ledled Cymru. Yn benodol, mae Wales. In particular, the Minister’s proposals cynigion y Gweinidog i symud tuag at to move towards a common collaborative strwythur cydweithredol cyffredin yn structure based on police boundaries and seiliedig ar ffiniau’r heddlu a byrddau iechyd local health boards are both impractical and lleol yn anymarferol ac yn afrealistig. Maent unrealistic. They are further compounded by wedi’u cymhlethu ymhellach gan nod y the Government’s aim, as described in the Llywodraeth, fel y disgrifir yn y Bil mesurau forthcoming collaborative measures Bill, to cydlafurio sydd ar y gweill, i orfodi’r force those councils already working across cynghorau hynny sydd eisoes yn gweithio ar the board to share services to do even more. draws y bwrdd i rannu gwasanaethau i wneud Yesterday, there was some discussion about hyd yn oed mwy. Ddoe, cafwyd peth trade unions and their members, but I ask the trafodaeth am undebau llafur a’u haelodau, Minister as to whether, prior to July, he has ond gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog os yw ef, cyn entered into dialogue with those trade unions, mis Gorffennaf, wedi dechrau trafod gyda’r their members and all council employees undebau llafur hynny, eu haelodau a holl about his proposals to merge local authorities weithwyr y cyngor am ei gynigion i uno by stealth. Any reorganisation of local awdurdodau lleol yn llechwraidd. Byddai government would involve redundancies and unrhyw ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol yn golygu it is crucial, therefore, that a full public diswyddiadau ac mae’n hollbwysig, felly, y consultation and engagement process is held. cynhelir proses ymgynghori ac ymgysylltu cyhoeddus llawn.
5.15 p.m.
112 21/09/2011
My colleague Peter Black AM has asked— Mae fy nghydweithiwr Peter Black AC wedi [Interruption.] gofyn— [Torri ar draws.]
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Setlwch, os Please settle down. I am sure that we are all gwelwch yn dda. Rwy’n siŵr ein bod ni gyd colleagues in the Chamber, although we may yn gydweithwyr yn y Siambr, er ein bod yn belong to different political traditions. perthyn i draddodiadau gwleidyddol gwahanol.
Janet Finch-Saunders: Peter Black AM has Janet Finch-Saunders: Mae Peter Black AC asked for there to be an informed and wedi gofyn am ddadl hyddysg a chynhwysol inclusive debate on how we go forward and am sut rydym yn symud ymlaen ac ar y on the best model to sustain the changes that model gorau i gynnal y newidiadau sydd eu are needed. I second that call to the Minister hangen. Rwy’n eilio’r galw hwnnw i’r and to the Welsh Labour Government. Let us Gweinidog ac i Lywodraeth Cymru. do it, but let us do it in such a way that seeks Gadewch i ni wneud hynny, ond mewn to challenge, engage, discuss and debate with ffordd sy’n ceisio herio, ymgysylltu, trafod a stakeholders and services users across the dadlau gyda rhanddeiliaid a defnyddwyr whole of Wales. I say ‘we’; as a member of gwasanaeth ledled Cymru. Rwyf yn dweud the opposition, and like our new leader ‘ni’; fel aelod o’r wrthblaid, ac fel ein Andrew R.T. Davies AM, we will offer a harweinydd newydd Andrew R.T. Davies constructive and mature approach to AC, byddwn yn cynnig bod yn wrthblaid opposition, and not opposition for the sake of adeiladol ac aeddfed, ac nid yn wrthblaid er it. We want to be part of those changes but ei mwyn ei hun. Rydym am fod yn rhan o’r there has to be full engagement with newidiadau hynny ond mae’n rhaid everybody across Wales. Members, I move ymgysylltu’n llawn gyda phawb ar draws the motion and ask for your support. Cymru. Aelodau, cynigiaf y cynnig a gofynnaf am eich cefnogaeth.
Gwelliant 1 Jane Hutt Amendment 1 Jane Hutt
Dileu pwynt 1 a rhoi yn ei le: Delete point 1 and replace with:
Yn nodi’r cyfarwyddyd clir a roddwyd gan Notes the clear direction provided by the Lywodraeth Cymru i lywodraeth leol, gan Welsh Government to local government, gynnwys yn y Cyngor Partneriaeth including at the Local Government Llywodraeth Leol ym mis Gorffennaf ac yn Partnership Council in July and in the natganiad ysgrifenedig y Gweinidog Minister for Local Government and Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau i’r Communities’ written statement to the Cynulliad ar 13 Gorffennaf 2011. Assembly of 13 July 2011.
The Minister for Local Government and Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Communities (Carl Sargeant): I move Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Cynigiaf amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt. welliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt.
Gwelliant 2 Jocelyn Davies Amendment 2 Jocelyn Davies
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 2 ac Add new point after point 2 and renumber ail-rifo’r pwyntiau sy’n dilyn: accordingly:
Yn cydnabod y pwysau sylweddol a roddir ar Recognises the severe pressures placed on lywodraeth leol o ganlyniad i’r toriadau local government due to funding cuts mewn cyllid a orfodwyd gan Lywodraeth y imposed by the UK Government. DU.
113 21/09/2011
Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Cynigiaf welliant 2 Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I move amendment 2 yn enw Jocelyn Davies. in the name of Jocelyn Davies.
Mae’n bleser cael cynnig y gwelliant hwn It is a pleasure to move this amendment, gan fy mod yn credu ei fod yn eithriadol o because I believe that it is extremely bwysig. Mae’n gosod y ddadl hon o fewn y important. It sets the right context for this cyd-destun priodol, sef bod toriadau llym yn debate: huge cuts are being implemented very cael eu gweithredu’n gyflym iawn gan y quickly by the UK coalition Government, Llywodraeth glymblaid yn y Deyrnas Unedig which are having a detrimental effect on sy’n cael effaith andwyol ar ddarpariaeth service provision and on local government gwasanaethau ac ar gyllidebau llywodraeth budgets across Wales—especially the 42 per leol ledled Cymru—yn enwedig y toriad o 42 cent cut in capital funding. That will have a y cant mewn cyllid cyfalaf. Bydd yn cael huge impact on the plans of all local effaith enfawr ar gynlluniau pob adran o government departments to develop vital lywodraeth leol i ddatblygu gwasanaethau services in areas such as education. hollbwysig mewn meysydd fel addysg.
Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cynnig hwn. Yr wyf yn I welcome this motion. I believe that it is credu ei fod yn amserol, ac, o edrych ar eiriad timely, and it is difficult to disagree with its y cynnig, mae’n anodd anghytuno ag ef. Nid wording. It is not overly critical of the yw’n orfeirniadol o fwriadau’r Gweinidog, ac Minister’s intentions, and I have no desire to nid wyf i am fod yn orfeirniadol ychwaith. Y be overly critical. The problem is that we do broblem yw nad ydym yn gwybod beth yw not know what the Minister’s intentions are. bwriadau’r Gweinidog. Mae wedi rhoi ambell He has given an example or two and has enghraifft ac wedi beirniadu ambell criticised some authorities—but interestingly, awdurdod—yn ddiddorol iawn, dim un no Labour authorities. I do not know, awdurdod Llafur. Nid wyf yn gwybod, Minister, whether there is a reason for that. Weinidog, a oes rheswm am hynny. A ydych Are you telling us that all the authorities in yn dweud wrthym fod yr holl awdurdodau Labour control—they are, of course, few and sy’n cael eu harwain gan y Blaid Lafur—nid far between—are perfect? In the context of oes llawer ohonynt erbyn hyn, wrth reswm— the kind of criticism that you have made of yn berffaith? Yng nghyd-destun y math o local authorities for appointing senior feirniadaeth yr ydych wedi ei gwneud o officers, what about Rhondda Cynon Taf’s awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â phenodi decision to appoint a director of education uwch-swyddogion, beth am gyngor Rhondda with an increase of £21,000 in salary? Is that Cynon Taf yn penodi cyfarwyddwr addysg ac the kind of appointment that you want to see? yn cynyddu’r cyflog o £21,000? Ai dyna’r Are Labour-run authorities the only ones to math o benodiadau yr ydych yn dymuno eu be given carte blanche to do that sort of thing, gweld? Ai dim ond awdurdodau sy’n cael eu while other authorities, run by other parties, harwain gan y Blaid Lafur sy’n cael rhwydd are to be harshly criticised? hynt i wneud pethau felly, tra bod awdurdodau eraill, lle mae pleidiau eraill mewn grym, yn cael eu beirniadu’n weddol hallt?
Beth yn union yw eich bwriad yn y pen draw What is your ultimate intention with regard to o ran y math o newidiadau yr ydych am eu the kinds of changes that you want to see in gweld mewn llywodraeth leol? Dyna’r local government? That is the problem that broblem sydd gennym mewn perthynas â’r we have with the statements that you have datganiadau yr ydych wedi bod yn eu been making. We, the Welsh Local gwneud. Nid ydym ni, Cymdeithas Government Association and council leaders Llywodraeth Leol Cymru nac arweinyddion across Wales do not understand what you cynghorau ledled Cymru yn deall beth yw intend to do. Do you want to merge services, eich bwriad chi yn y pen draw. A ydych am promote cross-boundary co-operation—I do
114 21/09/2011 uno gwasanaethau, hybu cydweithredu not believe that anyone would oppose that, trawsffiniol—nid wyf yn credu y byddai given the current economic climate—or unrhyw un yn anghytuno â hynny yn y completely reorganise local government? sefyllfa ariannol sy’n ein hwynebu—neu ad- This is your opportunity to tell us. If that is drefnu llywodraeth leol yn gyfan gwbl? your intention, it is important that you are Dyma eich cyfle i ddweud wrthym. Os ydych honest with us, telling us that that is what you yn bwriadu gwneud hynny, mae’n bwysig want to do and explaining how you are going eich bod yn onest gyda ni ac yn dweud to go about doing it, and to what timetable. wrthym mai dyna’r bwriad a sut yr ydych yn mynd i wneud hynny a’r amserlen ar gyfer hynny.
Os mai sôn yn unig a wnewch am If you are only talking about collaboration gydweithredu a chyfuno gwasanaethau a and merging services and senior-officer chyfrifoldebau uwch-swyddogion, a allwch responsibilities, can you explain how you esbonio sut yr ydych yn bwriadu gwneud intend to do it? You would face geographical hynny? Byddai gennych broblemau and political difficulties in doing so. Are you daearyddol a gwleidyddol yn hynny o beth. A seriously suggesting that officers should be ydych mewn gwirionedd yn awgrymu y dylai accountable to two authorities with different swyddogion fod yn atebol i ddau awdurdod political leadership? Those officers would ag arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol wahanol? face practical problems. What about officers Byddai problemau ymarferol wedyn yn having to respond to two authorities with wynebu’r swyddogion hynny. Beth am different ideas about service provision? How swyddog sy’n gorfod ymateb i ddau could those responsibilities be brought awdurdod sydd â syniadau gwahanol ynglŷn together? You have not explained that to us, â darparu gwasanaethau? Sut y gellir Minister, and that is the problem. That is cyfuno’r cyfrifoldebau hynny? Nid ydych certainly why we are unable to support wedi esbonio hyn inni, Weinidog, a dyna’r amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane broblem. Dyna’n sicr pam na allwn gefnogi Hutt. gwelliant 1, sydd wedi’i gyflwyno yn enw Jane Hutt.
Nid yw’r Llywodraeth wedi rhoi unrhyw The Government has provided no leadership arweiniad ar y mater hwn, ac nid oes on this issue, and there is no clarity, so we do eglurder, felly nid ydym yn deall beth yr not understand what your intentions are, ydych yn bwriadu ei wneud, Weinidog. Fel y Minister. As I said, if you told us what you dywedais, pe baech yn dweud wrthym beth yr intend to do, it is possible that we would ydych yn bwriadu ei wneud, mae’n bosibl y support you. However, as it stands, your byddech yn cael ein cefnogaeth. Fodd ultimate intention is a mystery. You should, bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, mae eich bwriadau yn perhaps, take a leaf out of the Minister for y pen draw yn ddirgelwch llwyr. Efallai y Education and Skills’ book—everyone at dylech gymryd ychydig o arweiniad oddi least knows what he intends to do; not wrth y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau—o leiaf everyone agrees with what he intends to do, mae pawb yn gwybod beth y mae’n bwriadu but everyone knows what that is, and he is ei wneud; nid yw pawb yn cytuno â’r hyn y very clear about that. That clarity is vital. mae’n bwriadu ei wneud, ond mae pawb yn gwybod beth y mae’n bwriadu ei wneud, ac mae’n glir iawn ynglŷn â hynny. Mae’r eglurder hwnnw yn hollbwysig.
Fel y dywedais, nid oes gennyf broblem â As I said, I have no problem with supporting chefnogi’r cynnig hwn fel ag y mae—yn this motion as it stands—especially amended enwedig ar ôl iddo gael ei wella gan welliant in line with amendment 2—but we would not 2—ond ni fyddem yn ei gefnogi os yw support it if amendment 1 is agreed. I will not gwelliant 1 yn llwyddo. Nid wyf am siarad speak to the other amendments; I will allow
115 21/09/2011 am y gwelliannau eraill, o ran cwrteisi, er the people moving those amendments the mwyn caniatáu i’r bobl sydd wedi’u cynnig courtesy of explaining them to me. We will, eu hesbonio imi. Byddwn felly’n penderfynu therefore, decide at the end how we, as a ar y diwedd sut y byddwn ni fel grŵp yn group, respond. ymateb.
Gwelliant 3 Peter Black Amendment 3 Peter Black
Ym mhwynt 3, ar ôl ‘gwasanaethau In point 3, after ‘public services’ insert cyhoeddus’ rhoi ‘sy’n cynnwys trafodaeth am ‘which includes discussion about ad-drefnu a’r gwasanaethau y tu allan i reorganisation and services outside local lywodraeth leol fel iechyd, addysg uwch ac government such as health, higher and addysg bellach, trafnidiaeth a datblygu further education, transport and community economaidd a chymunedol’. and economic development’.
Gwelliant 4 Peter Black Amendment 4 Peter Black
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add new point at end of motion: cynnig:
Yn dal yn bryderus am y pwerau a roddwyd i Remains concerned about the powers granted Weinidogion Cymru i uno awdurdodau lleol to the Welsh Ministers to amalgamate local drwy is-ddeddfwriaeth. authorities through subordinate legislation.
Gwelliant 5 Peter Black Amendment 5 Peter Black
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y Add new point at end of motion: cynnig:
Yn mynegi pryder am y posibilrwydd o Expresses concern about the possible sefydlu chwe grŵp rhanbarthol o implementation of six local authority awdurdodau lleol yn ogystal â phedwar grŵp regional groups in addition to four regional addysg rhanbarthol. education groups.
Peter Black: I move amendments 3, 4 and 5 Peter Black: Cynigiaf welliannau 3, 4 a 5 yn in my name. fy enw i.
This motion is one of the more intriguing that Y cynnig hwn yw un o’r rhai mwy diddorol a we have had in front of us today, because it gawsom ger ein bron heddiw, gan ei fod yn gives us an opportunity to debate one of the rhoi cyfle i ni drafod un o bynciau llosg controversies of the summer recess. I would, gwyliau’r haf. Hoffwn felly ddiolch i fy therefore, like to thank my colleague Janet nghydweithiwr Janet Finch-Saunders am Finch-Saunders for bringing it to the ddod ag ef i’r Siambr heddiw. [Chwerthin.] Chamber today. [Laughter.] I also thank my Diolch hefyd i fy nghydweithiwr Carl colleague Carl Sargeant, who will no doubt Sargeant, a fydd, yn ddiamau, yn ymateb be responding to it. [Laughter.] iddo. [Chwerthin.]
One of the problems with reorganising local Un o’r problemau gydag ad-drefnu government by stealth is that, often, your llywodraeth leol yn llechwraidd yw bod eich Cabinet colleagues miss the subtleties of your cydweithwyr yn y Cabinet yn aml ddim yn intentions. I am sure that Carl is not accused sylwi ar gynildeb eich bwriadau. Nid wyf yn of subtlety too often—I certainly am not— siŵr bod Carl yn cael ei gyhuddo yn aml but, in this particular case, he has managed to iawn o fod yn gynnil—yn sicr, nid wyf i— confuse a lot of people with what he has put ond, yn yr achos hwn, llwyddodd i ddrysu forward. First, we had a Cabinet paper, which llawer o bobl gyda’r hyn y mae wedi ei
116 21/09/2011 led to some headlines over the summer gyflwyno. I ddechrau, cawsom bapur recess, in which the Minister proposed that Cabinet, a arweiniodd at ambell i bennawd we set up collaborative organisational dros doriad yr haf, lle cynigiodd y Gweinidog groups—six of them in all across Wales. ein bod yn sefydlu grwpiau sefydliadol ar y However, how does that tie in with the four cyd—chwech ohonynt i gyd ar draws Cymru. consortia that the Minister for Education and Fodd bynnag, sut mae hynny yn cydfynd â’r Skills has brought forward, which are set on pedwar consortia a gyflwynwyd gan y different boundaries and proposes that Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau, sy’n seiliedig education authorities collaborate on the basis ar ffiniau gwahanol ac sy’n cynnig bod of those boundaries? Therefore, straight awdurdodau addysg yn cydweithio ar sail y away, we have two conflicting signals ffiniau hynny? Felly, yn syth bin, mae coming from the Welsh Government with gennym ddau neges sy’n gwrthddweud ei regard to how it expects local councils to gilydd gan Llywodraeth Cymru ynglŷn â sut collaborate. On the one hand, the Minister for mae’n disgwyl i gynghorau lleol gydweithio. education is saying that he wants Ar un llaw, dywed y Gweinidog addysg ei collaboration on the basis of, in the case of fod eisiau gweld cydweithio ar sail, yn achos some of the authorities in my region, rhai o’r awdurdodau yn fy rhanbarth i, Sir Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion, Neath Port Caerfyrddin, Ceredigion, Castell Nedd Port Talbot, Pembrokeshire, Powys and Swansea, Talbot, Penfro, Powys ac Abertawe, ac yna, and then, on the other hand, the Minister for ar y llaw arall, dywed y Gweinidog Local Government and Communities is Llywodraeth Leol a Cymunedau y dylai bob saying that all future collaboration by local cydweithio yn y dyfodol fod yn seiliedig ar councils should be on a different boundary, ffin wahanol, a fyddai, yn fy achos i, which, in my case, would be Swansea, Neath Abertawe, Castell Nedd Port Talbot a Phen- Port Talbot and Bridgend. It is no wonder y-bont ar Ogwr. Nid yw’n syndod bod that local government leaders and officers arweinwyr a swyddogion llywodraeth leol have been in a state of confusion as to what is wedi bod mewn dryswch ynglŷn â’r coming out of this Welsh Government. negeseuon a ddaw gan y Llywodraeth Cymru hon.
I have described this state of confusion as Yr wyf wedi disgrifio’r dryswch hwn fel ‘floundering in the dark’, and it appears that ‘ymbalfalu yn y tywyllwch’, ac mae’n edrych that is exactly what the Welsh Government is yn debyg mai dyna yn union mae doing in this instance. It seems to me that, for Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud yn yr achos all this talk of collaboration and all the hwn. Mae’n edrych i mi, er gwaetha’r holl messages coming out of the Welsh sôn yma am gydweithio a’r holl negeseuon a Government, what it is really saying is that it ddaw gan Llywodraeth Cymru, mai beth wants to reorganise local government, but mae’n ddweud go iawn yw ei fod eisiau ad- that it does not have the guts to say so or the drefnu llywodraeth leol, ond nad yw’n chutzpah to put forward a set of proposals for ddigon dewr i ddweud hynny nag yn ddigon debate and discussion. Let us have that eofn i ddod â chyfres o gynigion gerbron i’w debate and discussion and a set of proposals, dadlau a’u trafod. Gadewch i ni gael y ddadl so that we can see what your real intentions a’r drafodaeth honno a chyfres o gynigion, fel are in relation to local government. ein bod yn gallu gweld beth yw eich bwriadau go iawn o ran llywodraeth leol.
Even on the collaboration agenda, the Mae’r Gweinidog hyd yn oed yn ymbalfalu Minister is floundering in the dark. Not so yn y tywyllwch ar yr agenda cydweithio. long ago he was criticising Conwy County Ddim mor hir a hynny yn ôl, roedd yn Borough Council because, he said, it would beirniadu Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy not appoint a joint chief executive. As a oherwydd, meddai, nid oedd am benodi prif councillor in Swansea, I want my chief weithredwr ar y cyd. Fel cynghorydd yn executive to devote 60 or 70 hours a week to Abertawe, rwyf eisiau i fy mhrif weithredwr i ensuring that that council works effectively ymroi 60 neu 70 awr yr wythnos er mwyn and efficiently. It is not possible, in my view, sicrhau bod y cyngor yn gweithio yn
117 21/09/2011 to have a chief executive with two masters, effeithiol ac effeithlon. Nid yw’n bosibl, hyd working for two local authorities, and to two y gwelaf i, i gael prif weithredwr gyda dau different agendas—especially when those feistr, yn gweithio i ddau awdurdod lleol, ac i authorities are not in the same political ddau agenda wahanol—yn enwedig pan nad control, and take different approaches. If you yw’r awdurdodau hynny o dan yr un want a chief executive to control two local rheolaeth wleidyddol, ac yn gweithredu authorities, then merge the local authorities. dulliau gwahanol. Os ydych eisiau i brif Say that, if that is what you want. You cannot weithredwr reoli dau awdurdod lleol, yna do this on a superficial level. If you want unwch yr awdurdodau lleol.Dywedwch collaboration, let us have real collaboration— hynny os mae dyna rydych am ei weld. for example, along the lines of the Gwent Fedrwch chi ddim gwneud hyn ar lefel frailty project, which is partly funded by the arwynebol. Os ydych eisiau cydweithio, beth Welsh Government, with £9 million going in am i ni gael cydweithio go iawn—yn debyg, last year to make it work. That does not just er enghraifft, i broject llesgedd Gwent, a gaiff involve collaboration between local councils, ei ariannu’n rhannol gan Lywodraeth Cymru, but also with the health service, and that is gyda £9 miliwn yn cael ei wario y llynedd er what seems to be missing when you talk mwyn gwneud iddo weithio. Mae hynny nid about this. You talk about collaboration yn unig yn golygu cydweithio rhwng between local councils, but you never say cynghorau lleol, ond hefyd gyda’r that we should be collaborating with the gwasanaeth iechyd, a dyna sydd fel pe bai ar health service, or other Welsh Government goll pan rydych yn sôn am hyn. Rydych yn departments—you never talk about joint sôn am gydweithio rhwng cynghorau lleol, appointments or mergers in those areas, and ond nid ydych byth yn dweud y dylem ni fod ensuring proper value for the public money yn cydweithio gyda’r gwasanaeth iechyd, nag that is being spent. adrannau eraill o Lywodraeth Cymru—nid ydych byth yn sôn am benodiadau ar y cyd nag uno yn y meysydd hynny, a sicrhau gwerth priodol am yr arian cyhoeddus sy’n cael ei wario.
I support the collaboration agenda. It is a way Rwy’n cefnogi’r agenda cydweithio. Mae’n forward, and it is something that we can do, ffordd ymlaen, ac yn rhywbeth y gallwn ei but everyone is confused by the wneud, ond mae pawb mewn dryswch am Government’s intention. Conflicting sets of fwriad y Llywodraeth. Mae ffiniau sy’n boundaries are coming forward, and different gwrthdaro yn cael eu cyflwyno, ac mae commands and directions are being issued to gorchmynion a chyfarwyddiadau gwahanol local government about how it should work yn cael eu rhoi i lywodraeth leol am sut y in future. Everyone is concerned that you are dylai weithio yn y dyfodol. Mae pawb yn dabbling and interfering in the way that local bryderus eich bod yn ymhél ac yn ymyrryd councils work without wanting to have that â’r ffordd mae cynghorau lleol yn gweithio debate, it seems. Let us have that debate; let heb fod eisiau cael y ddadl honno, fe us stop shilly-shallying around, get on with it, ymddengys. Gadewch i ni gael y ddadl and talk about the real issues. honno; gadewch i ni roi’r gorau i oedi, bwrw iddi a siarad am y materion go iawn.
Angela Burns: We are talking here about our Angela Burns: Rydym yn sôn yn y fan hyn concerns regarding the lack of transparency am bryderon ynglŷn â diffyg tryloywder gan from the Welsh Government on the future of Lywodraeth Cymru am ddyfodol llywodraeth local government. It is worth repeating that, leol. Mae’n werth dweud hynny eto, gan fod because a great many of us are still bearing sawl un ohonom yn dal i fod â chreithiau yn the wounds from the mismanagement and dilyn camreoli a chamdrafod y broses o ad- poor handling of the ‘Designed to Deliver’ drefnu’r gwasanaeth iechyd, ‘Cynllun reorganisation of the health service that was Cyflenwi’, a gafodd ei hymgeisio gan Brian attempted by Brian Gibbons when he was Gibbons pan roedd yn Weinidog. Roedd Minister. That was a heavy-handed and honno’n ymgais lawdrwm a gormesol i fynd
118 21/09/2011 bullying attempt to go through Wales to drwy Gymru i weithredu system newydd implement a brand-new system of sbon o grynhoi, cydweithio a sefydlu byrddau consolidating, collaborating and establishing iechyd. health boards.
Local government is a relationship between Perthynas yw llywodraeth leol rhwng y rhai the governing and the governed, and if you sy’n llywodraethu a’r rhai sy’n cael eu want to change it, there are two prerequisites: llywodraethu, ac os ydych am ei newid, mae trust and honesty. Trust is necessary so that angen cael dau beth: ymddiriedaeth ac the public can believe that it has been part of onestrwydd. Mae angen ymddiriedaeth fel the process, that its voice has been heard, and bod y cyhoedd yn gallu credu ei fod wedi bod that localism is paid more than just lip yn rhan o’r broses, bod ei lais wedi cael ei service. Honesty is necessary in that you glywed a bod lleoliaeth yn fwy na dim ond must say what your plans are. I therefore gair ar bapur. Mae angen gonestrwydd yn yr have a simple question: do you intend, over ystyr bod angen i chi ddweud beth yw eich the five years of this Assembly, to reorganise cynlluniau. Felly, mae gen i gwestiwn syml: in a statutory way, with mergers and a ydych chi’n bwriadu, dros bum mlynedd y amalgamations, the local authorities? As I see Cynulliad hwn, ad-drefnu awdurdodau lleol it, you have three possible answers: ‘yes’, mewn ffordd statudol, gydag uniadau a ‘no’ or ‘I would like to talk about it’. If you chyfuniadau? Hyd y gwelaf i, gallwch ateb want to talk about it, great; that is what we mewn tair ffordd: ‘ydw’, ‘nac ydw’ neu are all here for. The concern that we have, ‘Hoffwn drafod y peth’. Os ydych am drafod and that local authorities and the public have, y peth, ardderchog, dyna pam rydym i gyd is that they will not get the chance to talk yma. Y pryder sydd gennym, a’r pryder sydd about this, and that it will be imposed upon gan awdurdodau lleol a’r cyhoedd, yw na them by the back door. I say that because of chânt y cyfle i siarad am hyn, ac y caiff ei the proposed new law—the Local osod arnynt drwy’r drws cefn. Dywedaf Government (Wales) Collaborative Measures hynny achos bod y gyfraith arfaethedig Bill, which is aimed at forcing reluctant newydd—y Bil Mesurau Cydweithio Rhwng councils to share services. Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru), wedi ei fwriadu i orfodi cynghorau anfoddog i rannu gwasanaethau.
I have mentioned two important words: Rwyf wedi crybwyll dau air pwysig; ‘trust’ and ‘honesty’. Here is a third: ‘ymddiriedaeth’ ac ‘onestrwydd’. Dyma ‘synergy’. You cannot force synergy between drydydd: ‘synergedd’. Fedrwch chi ddim organisations. You cannot make one gorfodi synergedd rhwng sefydliadau. department work well with another Fedrwch chi ddim gwneud i un adran department in a neighbouring council. weithio’n dda gydag adran arall mewn Councils and organisations of all sorts will cyngor cyfagos. Bydd cynghorau a find their own synergies. Surely, Minister, sefydliadau o bob math yn canfod eu you should be enabling those synergies to synergedd eu hunain. Weinidog, dylech fod happen. yn galluogi’r synergeddau hynny i ddigwydd.
5.30 p.m.
Ann Jones: It is interesting that you say that, Ann Jones: Mae’n ddiddorol eich bod yn because the leader of your local authority, dweud hynny, achos mae arweinydd eich John Davies, has said that he recognises the awdurdod lleol chi, John Davies, wedi dweud logic of regional mapping. Who is right, the ei fod yn cydnabod rhesymeg mapio leader of the council or you, in saying that he rhanbarthol. Pwy sy’n iawn, arweinydd y should not say that? cyngor ynteu chi, yn dweud na ddylai ddweud hynny?
Angela Burns: I am not responsible for the Angela Burns: Nid wyf yn gyfrifol am
119 21/09/2011 independent leader of Pembrokeshire County arweinydd annibynnol Cyngor Sir Penfro; Council; I am speaking on behalf of my rwy’n siarad ar ran fy etholwyr yn Nwyrain constituents in Carmarthen West and South Caerfyrddin a De Penfro. Rwy’n siarad am Pembrokeshire. I am talking about the people bobl sydd eisoes â 22 o awdurdodau lleol, who already have 22 local authorities, four pedair ardal addysg, chwech ardal education areas, six proposed government llywodraeth arfaethedig, pedwar heddlu, tri areas, four police forces, three national parks pharc cenedlaethol a Chynulliad. Faint o and an Assembly. How many layers of haenau o fiwrocratiaeth y mae’n rhaid i’r bureaucracy does Joe public have to go cyhoedd fynd drwyddynt er mwyn i’w llais through in order to be heard? The paper that gael ei glywed? Dywed y papur a you brought to Cabinet, Minister, says that gyflwynasoch i’r Cabinet, Weinidog, y bydd there will be six new regional groups to run chwe grŵp rhanbarthol newydd i redeg such services as education and social care. gwasanaethau fel addysg a gofal What does that leave for your localism cymdeithasol. Beth y mae hynny yn ei adael agenda? What will you do on the ground? ar gyfer eich agenda lleoliaeth? Beth a What will I, as someone who lives in wnewch chi ar lawr gwlad? Beth a fyddaf i, Pembrokeshire, putting a tick in the box, be fel rhywun sy’n byw yn Sir Benfro, wrth roi able to say to my guy or woman who is tic yn y blwch, yn gallu ei ddweud wrth y representing me at the county hall—‘You are dyn neu’r ddynes sy’n fy nghynrychioli yn in charge of bins’? I want them to be in neuadd y ddinas—‘Chi sy’n gyfrifol am charge of helping my life get better in my finiau’? Yr wyf i eisiau iddynt fod yn gyfrifol area. I think that I speak for an awful lot of am helpu i wella’m bywyd yn fy ardal. people throughout Wales in saying that. All I Credaf fy mod yn siarad ar ran nifer fawr o am asking you to do, Minister, is to open up bobl ledled Cymru wrth ddweud hynny. Y the debate so that people can talk about this. I cyfan rwy’n ei ofyn i chi ei wneud, have been watching closely the consultation Weinidog, yw agor y ddadl fel bod pobl yn process of the Hywel Dda Local Health gallu siarad am hyn. Rwyf wedi bod yn Board in my area, and I have not been gwylio proses ymgynghori Bwrdd Iechyd impressed. I can say that here because I have Lleol Hywel Dda yn agos yn fy ardal, ac nid told it that I have not been impressed. It has yw wedi fy mhlesio. Gallaf ddweud hynny consulted everyone except for Mr and Mrs yma oherwydd yr wyf wedi dweud wrtho nad Average on the street. If you want to do this, wyf wedi fy mhlesio. Y mae wedi Minister, talk about it and bring it to people’s ymgynghori â phawb heblaw am y gŵr a attention, so that the people of Wales, whose gwraig ar y stryd. Os ydych chi eisiau main access to workable local democracy is gwneud hyn, siaradwch amdano a dewch ag through the person that they vote in—not me ef i sylw pobl, fel bod pobl Cymru, sydd yn or you, but their councillor—have the chance cael eu prif fynediad i ddemocratiaeth lleol to talk about what they want in their area. gweithiadwy drwy’r sawl y maent yn Please, Minister, do not deny them that pleidleisio iddynt—nid chi neu fi, ond eu opportunity. cynghorydd—yn cael y cyfle i siarad am beth y maent ei eisiau yn eu hardal. Plîs, Weinidog, peidiwch a gwadu’r cyfle hwnnw iddynt.
Julie James: I have listened with great Julie James: Yr wyf wedi gwrando â chryn interest to the debate so far, as someone who ddiddordeb i’r ddadl hyd yma, fel rhywun a worked in local government for over 20 fu’n gweithio mewn llywodraeth leol ers 20 years—more years than I care to remember— mlynedd—mwy o flynyddoedd nag yr and for most of those years in a Welsh hoffwn ei gyfaddef—a’r rhan fwyaf o’r authority. I have to wear glasses now as a blynyddoedd hynny mewn awdurdod yng result of my extreme age and my long years Nghymru. Mae’n rhaid i mi wisgo sbectolau in local government service. I also bear the bellach oherwydd fy oed mawr a’m scars of the last reorganisation process, blynyddoedd maith mewn gwasanaeth during which most of my council colleagues llywodraeth leol. Mae gennyf hefyd greithiau looked inwards as we worried about whether o’r broses ad-drefnu ddiwethaf, pan wnaeth y
120 21/09/2011 we would have jobs at all in the new rhan fwyaf o’m cydweithwyr ar y cyngor structure. We looked for our jobs in the new syllu ar eu bogel wrth inni bryderu a fyddai structure and then for those of our colleagues. gennym swyddi o gwbl yn y strwythur Councillors did exactly the same thing, and newydd. Gwnaethom chwilio am ein swyddi we had two, three, four, or possibly five years ni yn y strwythur newydd ac wedyn rhai ein during which most councils looked inwards cydweithwyr. Gwnaeth cynghorwyr yn union and the economy suffered from the lack of yr un peth, a chawsom ddwy, tair, pedair, o economic activity of all the people who were bosibl pum mlynedd pryd y gwnaeth y rhan wrapped up in that reorganisation. It was an fwyaf o gynghorau syllu ar eu bogel a utter disaster. We then had the ridiculous dioddefodd yr economi oherwydd diffyg situation of having 22 local authorities, which gweithgarwch economaidd yr holl bobl a no-one wanted. The idea of starting a oedd yn rhan o’r ad-drefnu hwnnw. Cawsom comprehensive restructuring of that again in wedyn sefyllfa chwerthinllyd o gael 22 o these depressed economic times is, frankly, awdurdodau lleol, nad oedd unrhyw un mo’u ludicrous. What matters is what works. heisiau. Mae’r syniad o ailstrwythuro hynny eto yn gynhwysfawr yn ystod y cyfnod economaidd dirwasgedig hwn yn hurt, a bod yn blaen. Beth sy’n bwysig yw’r hyn sy’n gweithio.
Local government is very good at making Mae llywodraeth leol yn dda iawn am wneud things work, and always has been in my i bethau weithio, ac y mae wastad wedi bod experience. We have here suggestions from o’m profiad i. Mae gennym awgrymiadau yn the Welsh Government, which, from my y fan hon gan Lywodraeth Cymru sydd, o’m experience of talking to stakeholders, are profiad i o siarad â rhanddeiliaid, wedi cael widely welcomed. The Government is also croeso helaeth. Dywed y Llywodraeth hefyd saying that it will not interfere with other na fydd yn ymyrryd â threfniadau eraill sydd, arrangements that do in fact work. Therefore, fel mae’n digwydd bod, yn gweithio. Felly, there are other regional arrangements. For mae trefniadau rhanbarthol eraill. Er example, I was the officer who set up the enghraifft, fi oedd y swyddog a sefydlodd yr only shared services arrangement in Wales unig drefniant rhannu gwasanaethau yng for years, which was the shared legal services Nghymru am flynyddoedd, sef y project project, involving Swansea, Neath Port rhannu gwasanaethau cyfreithiol a oedd yn Talbot and Bridgend councils. Those councils cynnwys cynghorau Abertawe, Castell-nedd were not of the same political persuasion, and Port Talbot a Phen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Nid oedd that project has now been extended to other y cynghorau hynny o’r un lliw gwleidyddol, councils that are not of the same political ac y mae’r project bellach wedi ei ehangu i persuasion. Therefore, that argument does not gynghorau eraill nad ydynt o’r un lliw hold. As an officer, I have frequently served gwleidyddol. Felly, nid yw’r ddadl honno yn people who have different agendas quite dal dŵr. Fel swyddog, rwyf yn aml wedi happily. That can, of course, be done. All gwasanaethu pobl sydd ag agendâu gwahanol members have jobs at different levels of yn ddigon hapus. Mae modd gwneud hynny, organisations and so on, and happily move wrth gwrs. Mae gan bob aelod swyddi ar lefel between those agendas. Therefore, the idea wahanol mewn sefydliadau, ac yn y blaen, ac that someone, in delivering the same services, yn hapus yn symud rhwng yr agendâu hynny. cannot serve two organisations at the same Felly, mae’r syniad bod rhywun, wrth time is nonsense. gyflwyno’r un gwasanaethau, ddim yn gallu gwasanaethau dau sefydliad ar yr un pryd yn nonsens.
I wrote several reports when I was in private Ysgrifennais nifer o adroddiadau pan oeddwn practice, after leaving local government, mewn practis preifat, ar ôl gadael about the necessary implementation of llywodraeth leol, am weithredu angenrheidiol various schemes and plans. Therefore, I amryw o raglenni a chynlluniau. Felly, would say that local government in Wales byddwn yn dweud bod angen i lywodraeth
121 21/09/2011 needs to look beyond its boundaries, which is leol edrych y tu hwnt i’w ffiniau, a dyna why I welcome the arrangements in relation paham fy mod yn croesawu’r trefniadau o ran to the Simpson Compact and so on. I disagree Compact Simpson ac ati. Rwy’n anghytuno with my colleague Janet Finch-Saunders â’m cydweithwraig Janet Finch-Saunders pan when she says that the boundaries are natural ddywed fod y ffiniau yn rhai naturiol, gan ones, because they are nothing of the sort. In nad ydynt yn ddim o’r fath. Mewn fact, they are very unnatural in some cases. gwirionedd, maent yn annaturiol iawn mewn As Angela Burns said, local authorities find ambell achos. Fel y dywedodd Angela Burns, their own synergies. There are many such mae awdurdodau lleol yn canfod eu arrangements in place and they work. synergeddau eu hunain. Mae nifer o However, many do not find their own drefniadau o’r fath yn eu lle ac y maent yn synergies for small, parochial reasons. I will gweithio. Fodd bynnag, nid yw sawl un yn not mention the authorities in question, but I canfod eu synergeddau eu hun am resymau did a number of reports into various pitw a phlwyfol. Ni wnaf sôn am yr authorities and the parochialism of many of awdurdodau dan sylw, ond ysgrifennais sawl the councillors, as well as the officers, was adroddiad ar amryw o awdurdodau ac yr horrendous. That was true across all political oedd plwyfoldeb llawer o’r cynghorwyr, yn persuasions; I am not singling out any party. ogystal â’r swyddogion, yn arswydus. Roedd Therefore, what I would look for, and the hynny’n wir ar draws y lliwiau gwleidyddol; Cabinet papers that we have seen and the nid wyf yn sôn am un blaid yn benodol. moves in the compact arrangements and the Felly, yr hyn y byddwn yn chwilio amdano, partnership council are heading towards it, is ac y mae’r papurau Cabinet a welsom a’r encouragement for authorities to come out of cyngor partneriaeth yn symud i’r cyfeiriad those parochial boundaries with both carrots hwnnw, yw anogaeth i awdurdodau ddod o’r and sticks—sticks are necessary, frankly—to ffiniau plwyfol hynny gyda chymelliadau a get shared service arrangements working. chosbau—mae angen cosbau, a dweud y gwir—er mwyn cael trefniadau rhannu gwasanaethau i weithio.
I disagree with the ridiculous adage that it is Rwy’n anghytuno gyda’r wireb chwerthinllyd cheaper and better in the private sector. In ei bod yn rhatach ac yn well yn y sector Wales, we have a reliance on consultancy preifat. Mae gennym ddibyniaeth yng services in local government that we really Nghymru ar wasanaethau ymgynghori y must break. One way of breaking that is to mae’n rhaid i ni wir gael gwared arno. Un make local authorities think deeper and ffordd o gael gwared arno yw gwneud i harder, both at councillor and officer level, awdurdodau lleol feddwl yn ddyfnach a about the expertise that they already have in- chaletach, ar lefel cynghorwyr a swyddogion, house and about making that expertise am yr arbenigedd sydd ganddynt yn fewnol available across boundaries. In that way, it is eisoes a sicrhau bod yr arbenigedd hwnnw ar possible to save a phenomenal amount of gael ar draws ffiniau. Fel hynny, mae modd money and, more importantly, keep expertise arbed swm anferth o arian, ac, yn bwysicach, and high-calibre people within Wales. The cadw arbenigedd a phobl o safon uchel yng expertise curve cannot be sustained by a Nghymru. Ni ellir cynnal yr arbenigedd o single local authority. fewn un awdurdod lleol yn unig.
I will end by expanding on that point. Say, as Dof i ben drwy ymhelaethu ar y pwynt an officer, I gain a lot of experience because I hwnnw. Dyweder, fel swyddog, fy mod i’n regenerate an area of Swansea—the stadium, ennill cryn dipyn o brofiad oherwydd fy mod for example, which I personally worked on. I i’n adfywio ardal o Abertawe—y stadiwm, er gain a huge amount of experience and enghraifft, y bûm yn gweithio arno yn expertise, but my council builds just one bersonol. Rwy’n ennill profiad ac arbenigedd stadium, so then I lose that expertise. Instead sylweddol iawn, ond dim ond un stadiwm y of that in-house expertise being shared with mae fy nghyngor yn ei adeiladu, felly rwy’n other local authorities and used, the colli’r arbenigedd hwnnw. Yn hytrach na bod neighbouring local authorities employ yr arbenigedd mewnol hwnnw yn cael ei
122 21/09/2011 expensive England-based solicitors to do the rannu gydag awdurdodau lleol eraill a’i same piece of work. Therefore, I urge that we ddefnyddio, mae’r awdurdodau lleol cyfagos go with these plans, allow what works to yn cyflogi cyfreithwyr drud o Loegr i wneud work and what does not work to be criticised yr un gwaith. Felly, rwy’n annog i ni fynd so that we can learn from those mistakes, and gyda’r cynlluniau hyn, caniatáu i beth sy’n share in-house expertise. gweithio i weithio ac i’r hyn sydd ddim yn gweithio gael ei feirniadu fel y gallwn ddysgu o’r camgymeriadau hynny, a rhannu arbenigedd mewnol.
Mark Isherwood: After the general Mark Isherwood: Ar ôl cytuno ar principles of the Local Government (Wales) egwyddorion Mesur Llywodraeth Leol Measure 2011 had been agreed and it had (Cymru) 2011 a’i drafod ar ffurf drafft, been debated in draft form, Carl Sargeant, the cyflwynodd Carl Sargeant, y Gweinidog, Minister, introduced eleventh-hour welliannau munud olaf i’r Mesur arfaethedig amendments to the proposed Measure that nad oedd ymgynghori wedi bod arnynt ac a had not been consulted upon and which gave oedd yn rhoi pwerau i Weinidogion Cymru i Welsh Ministers the powers to make an wneud Gorchymyn uno er mwyn uno amalgamation Order to merge local ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol. Dywedodd y government areas. The Minister stated that he Gweinidog ei fod yn cyflwyno’r ddarpariaeth introduced this provision because it was clear hon gan ei bod yn glir, yn yr hinsawdd that, in the current financial climate, local ariannol sydd ohoni, bod angen i awdurdodau authorities need to work together and lleol weithio gyda’i gilydd a chydweithio yn collaborate much more closely with their llawer agosach gyda’u cymdogion. Fodd neighbours. However, collaboration and bynnag, mae cydweithio ac uno yn ddau beth amalgamation are two entirely different gwahanol iawn. Fel y dywedodd arweinydd things. As the leader of Gwynedd Council, Cyngor Gwynedd, Dyfed Edwards, os yw’r Dyfed Edwards, said, if the Government Llywodraeth yn credu mai’r ffordd orau i believes that the best way to deliver public ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yw creu services is to create six regional groups, or chwe grŵp rhanbarthol, neu un i’r gogledd, one for north Wales, then let us get that out yna gadewch inni roi hynny ar y bwrdd a’i on the table and have a debate about it. drafod.
There are serious and deep-rooted problems Mae problemau difrifol a hirsefydlog mewn in parts of local government, as I know only rhannau o lywodraeth leol, fel y gwn yn dda too well from my own north Wales casework. o’m gwaith achos fy hun yn y gogledd. Yn fy In my experience, however, the mhrofiad i, fodd bynnag, mae’r mwyafrif overwhelming majority of local authority llethol o staff awdurdodau lleol yn bobl dda, staff are good, decent, dedicated people and weddus, ymrwymedig ac nid yw pob not all authorities are serial offenders. awdurdod yn droseddwr cyson. Fodd bynnag, However, an officer-led culture predominates mae diwylliant sy’n cael ei arwain gan in certain hotspots whereby senior officers swyddogion mewn rhai ardaloedd sydd â treat someone reporting a problem as the phroblem lle mae uwch swyddogion yn trin problem, shooting the messenger and thereby rhywun sy’n adrodd problem fel y broblem, creating a culture of inefficiency and a waste gan feio’r negesydd ac felly creu diwylliant o of public resource. Labour-led Governments aneffeithlonrwydd a gwastraff o adnoddau since devolution have dealt with this problem cyhoeddus. Mae Llywodraethau dan in different parts of Wales by putting a lid on arweiniad Llafur ers datganoli wedi ymdrin it and allowing pressure to continue to build. â’r broblem hon mewn rhannau gwahanol o The Minister fails to recognise that big is not Gymru drwy ei bwrw i’r neilltu a gadael i’r always beautiful—although, of course, the pwysau barhau i dyfu. Mae’r Gweinidog yn Minister himself is—or more efficient or cost methu â gweld nad yw mawr wastad yn effective, and that amalgamation that does brydferth—er bod y Gweinidog ei hun, wrth not deal with core problems in local gwrs—nac yn fwy effeithiol neu’n gost- authorities will simply transfer the infection effeithiol, ac nad yw uno yn ymdrin â
123 21/09/2011 to others. phroblemau craidd mewn awdurdodau lleol a fydd, yn syml, yn trosglwyddo’r haint i eraill.
I will provide a sample of a much larger Rhoddaf sampl o lawer mwy o enghreifftiau incidence of this from my own casework. I o hyn o’m gwaith achos. Cyfeiriaf at yr refer to allegations that a council’s head of honiadau bod pennaeth adfywio cyngor wedi regeneration made false allegations against a gwneud honiadau ffug yn erbyn rhywun a Communities First employee who had weithiai i Cymunedau yn Gyntaf a oedd wedi questioned his use of Communities First cwestiynu ei ddefnydd o adnoddau resources and failure to consult a partnership Cymunedau yn Gyntaf ac am beidio ag board. I refer to the independent investigation ymgynghori â bwrdd partneriaeth. Cyfeiriaf by another council after false allegations at yr ymchwiliad annibynnol gan gyngor arall were made against a whistleblower in another ar ôl i honiadau ffug gael eu gwneud yn Communities First area. I refer to a housing erbyn chwythwr chwiban mewn ardal grants manager commissioning reports at Cymunedau yn Gyntaf arall. Cyfeiriaf at public expense and setting the terms of reolwr grantiau tai a gomisiynodd reference, thereby enabling several adroddiadau ar draul y pwrs cyhoeddus a complementary reports from independent gosod y cylch gorchwyl, a thrwy hynny surveyors and construction engineers in sicrhau bod sawl adroddiad cyflenwol gan relation to damage caused to the homes of syrfewyr a pheirianwyr adeiladu am y difrod vulnerable people to be sidelined. I refer to a achoswyd i gartrefi pobl agored i niwed i the head of planning policy who told me in gael eu bwrw o’r neilltu. Cyfeiriaf at front of the council’s head of planning and a bennaeth polisi cynllunio a ddywedodd constituent that if I thought that he had time wrthyf o flaen pennaeth cynllunio cyngor ac to read Welsh Government planning etholwr os oeddwn yn tybio bod ganddo guidance and ministerial interim planning amser i ddarllen canllawiau cynllunio policy statements I had another thing coming. Llywodraeth Cymru a datganiadau polisi I refer to members of the same council’s cynllunio dros dro gan Weinidogion, yna planning committee, who recently told me roeddwn yn camgymryd. Cyfeiriaf at aelodau that they voted in favour of planning officers’ pwyllgor cynllunio yr un cyngor, a recommendations even when they disagreed ddywedodd wrthyf yn ddiweddar eu bod with them because, they said, ‘We may need wedi pleidleisio o blaid argymhellion gan a favour from them in the future’. swyddogion cynllunio hyd yn oed pan oeddent yn anghytuno gyda hwy, gan ddweud, ‘Efallai byddwn angen ffafr ganddynt yn y dyfodol’.
I refer to the letter from a university professor Cyfeiriaf at lythyr gan athro prifysgol at to a local education authority, which stated awdurdod addysg lleol, a ddywedodd mai eu that their reason for writing was the rheswm dros ysgrifennu oedd bod pwyntiau misrepresentation of points in the authority’s ym mhapur yr awdurdod a oedd ar gael i’r publicly available paper to the council cyhoedd at fwrdd gweithredol y cyngor wedi executive. I refer to the small business that eu camgynrychioli. Cyfeiriaf at y busnes told me last week that local authorities in its bach a ddywedodd wrthyf yr wythnos area are not interested in commissioning from diwethaf nad oedd gan awdurdodau lleol yn it and do not even want to talk to it. It said ei ardal ddiddordeb comisiynu ganddynt a that councils will not look at doing things ddim hyd yn oed eisiau trafod y peth. differently, adding that you would think that, Dywedodd na wnaiff cynghorau edrych ar in this day and age, they would want to save ffyrdd o wneud pethau’n wahanol, gan money. ychwanegu y byddech yn tybio, yn yr oes sydd ohoni, y byddent am arbed arian.
I refer to allegations made by a number of Cyfeiriaf at honiadau o dwyll a wnaed gan constituents of fraud in respect of housing nifer o etholwyr mewn perthynas â grantiau renovation grants in a particular council, adnewyddu tai mewn cyngor penodol, lle
124 21/09/2011 where my constituents advise that their dywedodd etholwyr bod eu honiadau yn cael allegations are supported by their own eu cefnogi gan dystiolaeth ddogfennol eu documentary evidence. I refer to the hunain. Cyfeiriaf at benodi comisiynydd i appointment to a failing local authority of a awdurdod lleol a oedd yn methu a oedd yn commissioner who was the leader of another arweinydd awdurdod lleol yn y gorffennol local authority in the past during a period mewn cyfnod lle bu’n destun nifer o when it had been the subject of a number of ymchwiliadau a lle’r oedd dyfarniad inquiries and where a legally binding tribiwnlys cyflogaeth a rwymwyd mewn employment tribunal judgment included the cyfraith yn cynnwys y canfyddiad bod finding that there had been positive dogfennau wedi cael eu ffugio a dywedodd yr falsification of documentation and auditors archwilwyr, PricewaterhouseCoopers, fod PricewaterhouseCoopers reported that so cymaint o fethiannau wedi eu darganfod yn many failings in the council’s maintenance adran cynnal a chadw y cyngor fel y gallai department were unearthed that both rheolwyr a gweithwyr fel ei gilydd fod yn managers and workers could be guilty of euog o gamymddwyn. misconduct.
I refer to the local authority that dismissed Cyfeiriaf at yr awdurdod lleol a years of warnings from the father and anwybyddodd flynyddoedd o rybuddion gan grandparents that a little girl was being dad a nain a thaid fod merch fach yn cael ei abused by her stepfather until the little girl, cham-drin gan ei llys-dad hyd nes i’r ferch then six, turned up at school with visible fach, a oedd yn chwech yr adeg honno, droi i injuries. The stepfather was imprisoned and, fyny yn yr ysgol ag anafiadau gweladwy. thankfully, the little girl is now with her Cafodd y llys-dad ei garcharu, a diolch i’r father and grandparents. drefn, mae’r merch fach bellach gyda’i thad a’i nain a’i thaid.
I refer to the trade union officer who told me Cyfeiriaf at y swyddog undeb llafur a earlier this month, with detailed evidence, ddywedodd wrthyf yn gynharach y mis hwn, that many organisations in Wales have very gyda thystiolaeth fanwl, bod gan nifer o good employment practices but that far too sefydliadau yng Nghymru arferion cyflogaeth many in receipt of public money treat their da iawn ond bod llawer gormod ohonynt sy’n staff appallingly. I conclude by quoting derbyn arian cyhoeddus yn trin eu staff yn Leighton Andrews in his recent letter to a ddifrifol. Dof i ben drwy ddyfynnu Leighton council leader in which he rightly states: Andrews yn ei lythyr diweddar at arweinydd cyngor lle mae’n dweud yn gywir:
‘It is insufficient to state that the constitution Nid yw’n ddigon dweud bod y cyfansoddiad delegates operational matters to officers’— yn dirprwyo materion gweithredol i swyddogion—
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Wind Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Dewch i ben up now please, Mark. nawr, os gwelwch yn dda, Mark.
Mark Isherwood: He went on to say that Mark Isherwood: Aeth yn ei flaen i ddweud
‘Councils should have a strategic overview Dylai cynghorau fod â throsolwg strategol ac and must provide direction and challenge to y mae’n rhaid iddynt roi cyfarwyddyd a her its officers, and you must accept that your i’w swyddogion, a rhaid i chi dderbyn mai role as Leader is to ensure this happens.’ eich rôl chi fel Arweinydd yw sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd.
Well done, Minister. Da iawn, Weinidog.
Aled Roberts: Croesawaf y cyfle i drafod y Aled Roberts: I welcome the opportunity to
125 21/09/2011 pwnc hwn heddiw, gan fod dyfodol discuss this issue today, because the future of llywodraeth leol yn hollbwysig. Felly, local government is crucial. Therefore, I diolchaf i’r Ceidwadwyr am y cyfle i drafod thank the Conservatives for the opportunity hyn. Cefais y fraint o gadeirio pwyllgor to discuss this. I had the privilege of chairing rhanbarth y gogledd am ryw bum mlynedd the north Wales regional committee for some tan fis Mai eleni, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y five years until May of this year, and I am byddai’r Gweinidog yn cydnabod llwyddiant sure that the Minister will recognise the llawer o’r prosiectau cydweithio ar draws success of many of the collaborative projects Cymru. Mae’n rhaid dweud bod gan across Wales. I have to say that leaders of arweinwyr cynghorau lleol Cymru berthynas local authorities in Wales have a very bositif iawn â’r Gweinidog ar hyn o bryd. positive relationship with the current Fodd bynnag, credaf fod penodiad Minister. However, I think that the comisiynwyr ym Mlaenau Gwent ac yn sir appointment of commissioners in Blaenau Fôn yn dangos bod problem gyda Gwent and Anglesey demonstrates that there llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, ac mae are problems with local government in hynny’n achosi pryder i ni i gyd yma yn y Wales, and that is a cause of concern for Senedd a hefyd i deulu llywodraeth leol yng everyone here in the Senedd and also for the Nghymru. local government family in Wales.
Felly, mae’n bwysig i ni gefnogi’r cynnig, Therefore, it is important that we support the ond nid wyf yn barod i gefnogi gwelliant 1, motion, but I am not willing to support gan nad wyf yn siŵr, er bod gennym amendment 1 because, although we have an ddealltwriaeth o’r problemau y mae understanding of the problems that local llywodraeth leol yn eu hwynebu, a oes government is facing, I am not sure whether gennym syniad ynghylch gweledigaeth y we have any idea about the Government’s Llywodraeth o ran lle yr ydym yn troi os nad vision with regard to where we turn if these yw’r prosiectau cydweithio yn gweithio. collaborative projects do not work.
I have to say that I agreed with Julie James’s Rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod i’n cytuno’n llwyr comments entirely. Those of us with â sylwadau Julie James. Bydd y rhai ohonom experience of being in local government will ni sydd â phrofiad o fod mewn llywodraeth accept that there is reluctance at times, on the leol yn derbyn bod amharodrwydd weithiau, part of councillors and officers, to accept that ar ran cynghorwyr a swyddogion, i dderbyn collaborative working is for the benefit of the bod gweithio ar y cyd er budd y preswylwyr residents we serve. At times, there is too yr ydym yn eu gwasanaethu. Weithiau, mae much reliance on the status quo and comfort gormod o ddibyniaeth ar gadw’r sefyllfa fel zones. My experiences on the north Wales ag y mae ac ar fywyd cysurus. Mae fy regional partnership board lead me to share mhrofiadau ar fwrdd partneriaeth rhanbarthol the frustrations that I am sure the Minister y gogledd yn peri i mi rannu fy must feel with regard to the pace of rhwystredigaeth yr wyf yn siŵr y mae’r development. I think that there is a danger, Gweinidog yn ei deimlo am ba mor gyflym y given the amount of money that has been mae datblygu yn digwydd. Credaf fod perygl, spent on consultants’ fees with regard to o gofio faint o arian a wariwyd ar ffioedd various shared services opportunities and ymgynghorwyr o ran y cyfleoedd amrywiol i other projects, that a lot of that money is rannu gwasanaethau a phrojectau eraill, bod spent to convince people of the reason things llawer o’r arian hwnnw yn cael ei wario ar cannot change rather than on changing them. argyhoeddi pobl pam na all bethau newid yn hytrach nag ar eu newid nhw.
Aled Roberts: Croesawaf y cyfle i drafod y Aled Roberts: I welcome the opportunity to pwnc hwn heddiw, gan fod dyfodol discuss this issue today, because the future of llywodraeth leol yn hollbwysig. Felly, local government is crucial. Therefore, I diolchaf i’r Ceidwadwyr am y cyfle i drafod thank the Conservatives for the opportunity hyn. Cefais y fraint o gadeirio pwyllgor to discuss this. I had the privilege of chairing rhanbarth y gogledd am ryw bum mlynedd the north Wales regional committee for some
126 21/09/2011 tan fis Mai eleni, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y five years until May of this year, and I am byddai’r Gweinidog yn cydnabod llwyddiant sure that the Minister will recognise the llawer o’r prosiectau cydweithio ar draws success of many of the collaborative projects Cymru. Mae’n rhaid dweud bod gan across Wales. I have to say that leaders of arweinwyr cynghorau lleol Cymru berthynas local authorities in Wales have a very bositif iawn â’r Gweinidog ar hyn o bryd. positive relationship with the current Fodd bynnag, credaf fod penodiad Minister. However, I think that the comisiynwyr ym Mlaenau Gwent ac yn sir appointment of commissioners in Blaenau Fôn yn dangos bod problem gyda Gwent and Anglesey demonstrates that there llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, ac mae are problems with local government in hynny’n achosi pryder i ni i gyd yma yn y Wales, and that is a cause of concern for Senedd a hefyd i deulu llywodraeth leol yng everyone here in the Senedd and also for the Nghymru. local government family in Wales.
Felly, mae’n bwysig i ni gefnogi’r cynnig, Therefore, it is important that we support the ond nid wyf yn barod i gefnogi gwelliant 1, motion, but I am not willing to support gan nad wyf yn siŵr, er bod gennym amendment 1 because, although we have an ddealltwriaeth o’r problemau y mae understanding of the problems that local llywodraeth leol yn eu hwynebu, a oes government is facing, I am not sure whether gennym syniad ynghylch gweledigaeth y we have any idea about the Government’s Llywodraeth o ran lle yr ydym yn troi os nad vision with regard to where we turn if these yw’r prosiectau cydweithio yn gweithio. collaborative projects do not work.
I have to say that I agreed with Julie James’s Rhaid i mi ddweud mod i’n cytuno’n llwyr â comments entirely. Those of us with sylwadau Julie James. Bydd y rhai ohonom experience of being in local government will ni sydd â phrofiad o fod mewn llywodraeth accept that there is reluctance at times, on the leol yn derbyn bod amharodrwydd weithiau, part of councillors and officers, to accept that ar ran cynghorwyr a swyddogion, i dderbyn collaborative working is for the benefit of the bod gweithio ar y cyd er budd y preswylwyr residents we serve. At times, there is too rydym yn eu gwasanaethu. Weithiau, mae much reliance on the status quo and comfort gormod o ddibyniaeth ar gadw’r sefyllfa fel zones. My experiences on the north Wales ag y mae ac ar fywyd cysurus. Mae fy regional partnership board lead me to share mhrofiadau ar fwrdd partneriaeth rhanbarthol the frustrations that I am sure the Minister y gogledd yn peri i mi rannu fy must feel with regard to the pace of rhwystredigaeth rwy’n siŵr mae’r Gweinidog development. I think that there is a danger, yn deimlo am ba mor gyflym mae datblygu given the amount of money that has been yn digwydd. Credaf fod perygl, o gofio faint spent on consultants’ fees with regard to o arian a wariwyd ar ffioedd ymgynghorwyr various shared services opportunities and o ran y cyfleoedd amrywiol i rannu other projects, that a lot of that money is gwasanaethau a phrojectau eraill, bod llawer spent to convince people of the reason things o’r arian hwnnw yn cael ei wario ar cannot change rather than on changing them. argyhoeddi pobl pam na all pethau newid yn hytrach nag ar eu newid nhw.
5.45 p.m.
I do not think that the measure of success will Nid wyf yn credu mai mesur llwyddiant fydd be the number of high-level posts that local nifer y swyddi lefel uchel y bydd authorities share; the measure of success will awdurdodau lleol yn eu rhannu; mesur be real improvement to the delivery of llwyddiant fydd y gwelliant go iawn i services to ordinary people. There is, ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau i bobl gyffredin. however, a need for us to understand the Fodd bynnag, mae angen i ni ddeall y timescales involved and to have regard to the terfynau amser sydd ynghlwm wrth hyn ac i practical implications involved in ystyried y goblygiadau ymarferol sydd collaborative projects. We need to know ynghlwm â phrojectau ar y cyd. Mae angen i
127 21/09/2011 exactly how much time will be given. I ni wybod faint yn union o amser y byddwn became aware of the complexities with yn ei gael. Deuthum i wybod bod regard to the merging of terms of conditions cymhlethdodau o ran uno amodau a thelerau as far as different workers were concerned. cyn belled â bod gweithwyr gwahanol yn y cwestiwn.
There is a need for us to discuss in the Mae angen i ni hefyd drafod yn y Cynulliad Assembly what happens if these collaborative beth sy’n digwydd pan nad yw’r projectau ar projects do not come to fruition—that is the y cyd hyn yn dwyn ffrwyth—dyna yw’r frustration we feel as ordinary Members. If rhwystredigaeth a deimlwn fel Aelodau the Government came out with a clear cyffredin. Pe bai’r Llywodraeth yn rhyddhau statement saying that it is not considering datganiad clir yn dweud nad yw yn ystyried local government reorganisation, but that, if ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol, ond pe bai’r the Minister clearly felt that the collaborative Gweinidog yn teimlo’n glir bod y projectau projects are frustrated, he would have no ar y cyd yn rhwystredig, ni fyddai’n difficulty in using the powers under the new anhawster ganddo i ddefnyddio’r pwerau o legislation, it would give a clear message. dan y ddeddfwriaeth newydd, byddai What local government needs is an hynny’n rhoi neges glir. Yr hyn mae ar understanding that the Assembly, because of lywodraeth leol ei angen yw dealltwriaeth the issues that Julie James referred to, does nad yw’r Cynulliad, oherwydd y materion y not see wholesale local government cyfeiriodd Julie James atynt, yn gweld ad- reorganisation as a panacea. If we go down drefnu llywodraeth leol ar raddfa fawr fel the path of local government reorganisation, ateb i bopeth. Os awn ar drywydd ad-drefnu there is a real danger that councils will spend llywodraeth leol, mae perygl go iawn y bydd two or three years looking inwards, sorting cynghorau yn treulio dwy neu dair blynedd themselves out and having little or no regard yn syllu ar eu bogel, yn gofalu am eu hunain to the improvement of services. My own a ddim yn talu hid o gwbl neu’n dangos fawr experience is that large authorities are not the o hid at wella gwasanaethau. Fy mhrofiad i cure for all ills. There are well-run small yw nad awdurdodau mawr yw’r ateb i authorities, and there are badly-run large bopeth. Mae yna awdurdodau bach sy’n cael authorities. Given the size of our nation, we eu rhedeg yn dda, ac mae yna awdurdodau also have to recognise recent experience, mawr sydd ddim yn cael eu rhedeg yn dda. O particularly in north-east Wales, which has ystyried maint ein cenedl, rhaid inni hefyd meant that people have felt a lot closer to gydnabod y profiad yn ddiweddar, yn service delivery under the current model than enwedig yn y gogledd-orllewin, sydd wedi they did under the previous model. golygu bod pobl yn teimlo’n llawer agosach at y ddarpariaeth gwasanaeth o dan y model presennol nag oeddent o dan yr un blaenorol.
I also ask the Minister to provide some clarity Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog roi rhywfaint o with regard to the friction, if you like, eglurhad am y ffrithiant, os hoffech, rhwng ei between his own announcement following gyhoeddiad ef yn dilyn y datganiad Cabinet the Cabinet statement in the summer and the yn yr haf a’r trefniadau o ran y consortia arrangements with regard to the educational addysg. Er nad yw’n creu problemau yn fy consortia. Although it creates no problems in rhanbarth i, gan fod y ddau grŵp yn union yr my own region, because the two groupings un fath, rwy’n gwybod, gan fod Aelodau are exactly the same, I am aware that, as eraill wedi cyfeirio at— other Members have alluded to—
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Dewch i ben Conclude, now. nawr.
Aled Roberts: In south Wales, there are Aled Roberts: Mae gwrthdaro yn y de, ac conflicts, and I think that we need to have a rwy’n meddwl bod angen i ni ddeall yn glir a clear understanding as to whether the fydd y consortia addysg yn cael eu galluogi i
128 21/09/2011 education consortia will be allowed to come ddwyn ffrwyth o dan y trefniadau presennol. to fruition under the current arrangements. Mae angen— There is a need—
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. You Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Daeth eich are out of time now, sorry. amser i ben erbyn hyn, mae’n ddrwg gennyf.
Suzy Davies: I will try to keep my remarks Suzy Davies: Ceisiaf gadw fy sylwadau’n short, bearing in mind that I would like to fyr, gan fy mod eisiau osgoi ailadrodd. Mae’r avoid repetition. The fact that we are having ffaith ein bod yn cael y ddadl hon ar this debate on transparency in local dryloywder mewn llywodraeth leol yn government suggests that the Welsh Labour awgrymu nad yw Llywodraeth Llafur Cymru, Government, and local authorities themselves a’r awdurdodau lleol eu hunain mewn rhai in some cases, are failing to inspire achosion, yn methu ag ennyn hyder bod eu confidence that their most important penderfyniadau pwysicaf yn cael eu gwneud decisions are being made in the most open of yn y ffordd fwyaf agored. Mae’r adroddiad ways. The disturbing report that we heard poenus a glywsom ddoe am wasanaethau yesterday about children’s services in plant yn Sir Benfro, er enghraifft, yn ddigon i Pembrokeshire, for example, is enough to ni gyd ddeffro a chymryd sylw. Ar gefn y make us all sit up and take notice. On the trafferthion yn Ynys Môn a Blaenau Gwent back of the troubles in Ynys Môn and yr ydych newydd sôn amdanynt, mae’r sioe o Blaenau Gwent that you were just talking ddynes yn cael ei symud o’r siambr yng about, there is the spectacle of a woman Nghaerfyrddin a honiadau o ymddygiad being removed from the chamber in bygythiol gan gynghorwyr mewn rhai Carmarthen and allegations of intimidation of penderfyniadau cynllunio ym Mhen-y-bont. councillors by officers in certain planning Efallai nad yw’r ddadl hon ddim jest yn decisions in Bridgend. Perhaps this debate is amserol, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, ond yn hwyr. not just timely, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, but overdue.
If my post bag is anything to go by, people Os yw fy sach bost yn dangos unrhyw beth, are still concerned that cabinet government mae pobl yn dal yn bryderus am lywodraeth and a reliance on delegated powers mean that gabinet ac mae dibyniaeth ar bwerau wedi eu money is spent and decisions are taken while dirprwyo yn golygu bod arian yn cael ei the people that are affected have no stake in wario a phenderfyniadau yn cael eu gwneud those decisions, despite all attempts by them tra bod pobl yr effeithir arnynt ddim yn cael to take part in the process. Members will be dweud yn y penderfyniadau hynny, er aware of the Welsh Conservatives’ desire to gwaethaf pob ymdrech ganddynt i gymryd give power back to those who feel rhan yn y broses. Bydd Aelodau yn gwybod dissatisfied with decisions by opening up am ddyhead y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig i roi details of public body expenditure to their pŵer yn ôl i’r rhai sy’n anfodlon â scrutiny. The Beecham report has phenderfyniadau drwy agor manylion recommended it, the UK Government’s gwariant gan gyrff gyhoeddus er mwyn Localism Bill has included it and, as Janet iddynt graffu arnynt. Mae adroddiad Finch-Saunders has said, two Conservative- Beecham wedi argymell hynny, mae Bil led Welsh local authorities have voluntarily Lleoliaeth Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig introduced it, so why is this Welsh Labour wedi ei gynnwys, ac fel y dywedodd Janet Government so fearful of it? Could it be that Finch-Saunders, mae dau awdurdod lleol yng Ministers are reluctant to ask public bodies to Nghymru a arweinir gan Geidwadwyr wedi ei clarify their figures? Perhaps the Minister is gyflwyno’n wirfoddol, felly pam fod y struggling to clarify the figures himself. Are Llywodraeth Lafur Gymreig hon gymaint o’i we any nearer to knowing the levels of ofn? Ai oherwydd bod Gweinidogion yn savings local authorities are expected to make amharod i ofyn i gyrff gyhoeddus egluro eu as a result of this measure? ffigurau? Efallai bod y Gweinidog yn cael anhawster i egluro’r ffigurau ei hun. A ydym
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rywfaint yn agosach at wybod faint o arbedion y mae disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol eu gwneud o ganlyniad i’r mesur hwn?
Perhaps public bodies are getting a Efallai bod cyrff cyhoeddus yn cael neges subliminal message from the Government dan yr wyneb gan y Llywodraeth fod that obfuscation and pushing things through cymylu’r dyfroedd a gwthio pethau drwodd without genuine consultation is acceptable, heb ymgynghori go iawn yn dderbyniol, because that is what we are getting. This is achos dyna beth yr ydym yn ei gael. Hwn yw the Welsh Labour Government’s major piece darn mawr o waith Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru of work with local government. We are told gyda llywodraeth leol. Dywedir wrthym y that it will make local government more bydd yn gwneud llywodraeth leol yn fwy accountable and more connected to local atebol ac yn cyffwrdd mwy â phobl leol, ond people, yet it seems to show little respect for eto nid yw’n ymddangos fel pe bai’n dangos accountability and it is failing to connect fawr o barch at atebolrwydd ac nid yw’n even with local government. llwyddo i gyffwrdd â llywodraeth leol hyd yn oed.
The last minute introduction of powers to Cyflwynwyd pwerau ar y funud olaf i wneud make amalgamation orders was made without gorchmynion uno heb ymgynghori, er consultation, despite the huge changes that it gwaethaf y newidiadau anferth yr oedd is capable of imposing. Where is the ganddynt y gallu i’w gosod. Ble mae’r accountability for that decision? It has taken atebolrwydd am y penderfyniad hwnnw? Y this Welsh Conservatives debate to try to mae wedi cymryd y ddadl hon gan y winkle that explanation out of the Minister. Ceidwadwyr Cymreig i geisio cael eglurhad am hynny gan y Gweinidog.
Whether the Minister accepts that his Pa un ai a ydyw’r Gweinidog yn derbyn bod proposals for co-operation amount to ei gynigion am gydweithio yn gyfystyr ag ad- reorganisation through the back door or not, drefnu llechwraidd ai peidio, mae arweinydd the leader of the City and County of Swansea Cyngor a Sir Abertawe yn sicr o’r farn council certainly thinks so. I wonder whether honno. Tybed a fydd sylwadau Mr Holley Mr Holley’s observations that this will be mai ad-drefnu rhad fydd hyn yn cael eu reorganisation on the cheap will be borne out, gwireddu, oherwydd fel y dywedais yn barod, because, as I have already said, the Minister mae’r Gweinidog wedi gadael cynghorau yn has left councils in the dark as to exactly y tywyllwch o ran beth yn union y maent i what they are supposed to be saving. fod i’w arbed.
Minister, the three local authorities in my Weinidog, mae’r tri awdurdod lleol yn fy region are already working in collaboration. rhanbarth eisoes yn cydweithio. Ein lle ni yw It is open to us to ask whether they are doing gofyn a ydynt yn gwneud hynny yn effeithiol, that effectively, but you can be sure that they ond gallwch fod yn siŵr y byddant yn are doing so in accordance with local need, gwneud hynny yn ôl yr angen lleol, ffiniau local cultural boundaries and local diwylliannol lleol a beth sy’n ymarferol yn practicalities. lleol.
Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Bridgend County Borough Council is Ogwr yn gweithio gyda Chyngor Bro working with the Vale of Glamorgan Morgannwg, ac mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Council, and Neath Port Talbot County Sirol Castell Nedd Port Talbot a chyngor Borough Council and City and County of Dinas a Sir Abertawe yn cydweithredu gyda’i Swansea council are working together. The gilydd. Mae’r ddau ohonynt yn cydweithio â two of them are working with Chyngor Sir Caerfyrddin, Cyngor Sir Penfro Carmarthenshire County Council, a Chyngor Sir Powys, fel y dywedodd Peter Pembrokeshire County Council and Powys Black. Maent yn gweithredu yn y modd hwn County Council, as Peter Black said. They
130 21/09/2011 i geisio gwella gwasanaethau wrth arbed are operating in this way to try to improve arian. Hwy sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i greu’r services while saving money. It is they who rhaglen gydweithio orau, nid y Llywodraeth are best placed to create the best co-operation hon. programme, not this Government.
Weinidog, os oes angen cynllun penodedig i Minister, if there is a need for a blueprint to ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, a reform public services, will you accept the wnewch dderbyn arweiniad Cymdeithas lead given by the Welsh Local Government Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a’i phartneriaid yn Association and its partners in the public, y sectorau cyhoeddus, preifat a gwirfoddol, a private and voluntary sectors, and by those chan ddefnyddwyr y gwasanaethau hynny? who use the services? If this Government is Os yw’r Llywodraeth hon o ddifrif am serious about delivery, it has to accept that gyflawni, rhaid derbyn bod gwahaniaeth there is a difference between policy and fait rhwng polisi a fait accompli. accompli.
We look to you to support local government Rydym yn edrych tuag atoch chi i gefnogi to allow it to develop the expertise that Julie llywodraeth leol i’w galluogi i ddatblygu’r James talked about, and not to impose upon arbenigedd y soniodd Julie James amdano, ac it. nid ei osod arno.
Mick Antoniw: For those of us who have Mick Antoniw: I’r rhai ohonom sydd â experience in local government, and for those phrofiad mewn llywodraeth leol, ac i rai fel like my colleague, Julie, who have been fy nghydweithwraig, Julie, sydd wedi bod o around for rather a long time—[Laughter.] I gwmpas er sbel go hir—[Chwerthin.] Rwy’n think ‘experience’ was the word I was meddwl mai ‘profiad’ oedd y gair yr oedd yn looking for. I have never understood the chwilio amdano. Gwneuthum erioed ddeall y paranoia that seems to exist within the paranoia sydd fel pe bai’n bodoli o fewn y Conservative Party regarding local Blaid Geidwadol am ad-drefnu llywodraeth government reorganisation. All the major leol. Mae pob un o’r prosesau ad-drefnu reorganisations that have taken place have mawr wedi digwydd o ganlyniad i been a result of decisions by Tory benderfyniadau gan Lywodraethau Torïaidd a Governments that seemed to think that one oedd yn tybio un funud ei fod yn rhy fawr, minute it is too big, the next minute it is too a’r funud nesaf yn rhy fach. Roeddwn yn small. I was involved in the most recent local rhan o’r ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol mwyaf government reorganisation in 1996, which diweddar ym 1996, a oedd yn drychineb was an absolute disaster. The consequences llwyr. Cymerodd bum neu chwe mlynedd i of that took five or six years to overcome—it ddod dros ganlyniadau hynny—roedd yn was destabilising and millions of pounds danseiliol a thalwyd miliynau o bunnoedd o were paid out in compensation to people who iawndal i bobl a aeth yn sâl o ganlyniad. became ill as a result. Anyone who wants to Mae’n rhaid bod unrhyw un sydd eisiau start going down this road and push for the dechrau mynd ar y trywydd hwn a gwthio’r reorganisation of local government, when we syniad o ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol, pan fo have an economy that is likely to go into gennym economi sy’n debyg o fynd i double-dip recession within the next six ddirwasgiad dwbl o fewn y chwe mis nesaf, months, must be absolutely insane. yn hollol wallgof.
Simon Thomas: On the point about the Simon Thomas: Ynglŷn â’r pwynt am ad- previous local government reorganisation, do drefnu llywodraeth leol yn flaenorol, a ydych you agree that that was deliberately designed yn cytuno bod hynny wedi ei gynllunio’n by the Conservative Party to stop any kind of fwriadol gan y Blaid Geidwadol i atal national Government coming to Wales, and unrhyw fath o Lywodraeth genedlaethol rhag that we need to bear that in mind when we dod i Gymru, a bod angen i ni gadw hynny look at the present situation? mewn cof pan edrychwn ar y sefyllfa bresennol?
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Mick Antoniw: I think that there is certainly Mick Antoniw: Rwy’n credu bod yna, yn an element of truth there, just as the 1974 sicr, elfen o wirionedd yn hynny, yn union fel local government reorganisation was partly yr oedd ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol ym 1974 about carving up authorities to give the yn ymwneud yn rhannol am dorri Conservative Party a stronger foothold. awdurdodau yn ddarnau er mwyn rhoi troedle However, those are old arguments. The cryfach i’r Blaid Geidwadol. Fodd bynnag, reality is that those who believe that this is a hen ddadleuon yw’r rheiny. Y gwir amdani fast move into some sort of reorganisation are yw bod y rheiny sy’n credu mai symudiad forgetting the lessons that we learnt from cyflym ydyw i ryw fath o ad-drefnu yn 1996, when we saw that not only did the anghofio’r gwersi y gwnaethom eu dysgu o reorganisation not achieve a great deal, it did 1996, pan welsom nid yn unig na wnaeth ad- nothing more than to juggle things about and drefnu gyflawni rhyw lawer, ni wnaeth ddim create five or six years of chaos, incur mwy na symud pethau o gwmpas a chreu enormous expense, make people ill, rhyw bum neu chwe mlynedd o anhrefn, creu destabilise things and lead to a loss of skills costau anferth, gwneud pobl yn sâl, tanseilio through people leaving. We can ill afford to pethau ac arwain at golli sgiliau oherwydd do that at the current time. pobl yn gadael. Prin y gallwn fforddio gwneud hynny ar hyn o bryd.
The way that we are proceeding at the Mae’r ffordd yr ydym yn mynd ati ar hyn o moment is absolutely right. We have to look bryd yn hollol gywir. Mae’n rhaid i ni edrych at the mindset of local government and what ar feddylfryd llywodraeth leol a beth y mae’n it can do, rather than look at what it cannot gallu ei wneud, yn hytrach nag edrych ar beth do. I agree that that is not necessarily an easy nad yw’n gallu ei wneud. Rwy’n cytuno nad change to make. There may come a time, yw o anghenraid yn newid hawdd i’w wneud. after this has bedded in, when we will want to Efallai daw amser, pan mae hyn wedi cael ei look at what the future of devolution in sefydlu, pan fyddwn eisiau edrych ar beth yw Wales and in the UK is, but now is not the dyfodol datganoli yng Nghymru a’r Deyrnas time. To go down that road at present is Unedig, ond nawr yw’r amser. Mae mynd ar madness. y trywydd hwnnw ar hyn o bryd yn wallgof.
The Minister for Local Government and Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Communities (Carl Sargeant): I will start Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Rwyf am with the consensus politics and thank Aled ddechrau gyda’r gwleidyddiaeth gonsensws a Roberts for his contribution this afternoon. It diolch i Aled Roberts am ei gyfraniad y was very structured and well-received. I prynhawn yma. Roedd ganddo dipyn o enjoyed working with him on the regional strwythur a chafodd dipyn o groeso. board in north Wales and note his Mwynheais weithio gydag ef ar y bwrdd effectiveness on that. Julie James shared her rhanbarthol yn y gogledd a nodaf ei knowledge of local government with the effeithiolrwydd ar hwnnw. Rhannodd Julie Chamber and the depth of that was evident in James ei gwybodaeth o lywodraeth leol her contribution, and I thank her for that. gyda’r Siambr ac yr oedd hyd a lled hynny yn That is the end of the consensus politics. amlwg yn ei chyfraniad, a diolch iddi am [Laughter.] hynny. Dyna ddiwedd ar wleidyddiaeth gonsensws. [Chwerthin.]
I am absolutely astounded at the Rwyf wedi fy synnu’n aruthrol gan contributions from some other colleagues gyfraniadau gan rai cydweithwyr eraill today. I am not quite sure what air you heddiw. Nid wyf yn gwybod pa aer yr ydych breathe on that side of the Chamber, but it is yn ei anadlu yr ochr yna i’r Siambr, ond nid not the same as that breathed by the general yw’r un fath â’r un a gaiff ei anadlu gan y public, which is concerned about public cyhoedd, sy’n poeni am wella gwasanaethau service improvement, not the protection of cyhoeddus, nid diogelu cynghorau a’u councils and their structures. The public strwythurau. Mae’r cyhoedd eisiau wants good-quality services, as I and many of gwasanaethau o safon dda, fel yr wyf i a
132 21/09/2011 my colleagues on these benches do. llawer o’m cydweithwyr ar y meinciau hyn Residents are telling me this and, in fact, I do yn dymuno eu cael. Mae preswylwyr yn not know who you are representing, because, dweud hyn wrthyf, ac, yn wir, nid wyf yn this week, I met the Vale of Glamorgan’s gwybod pwy yr ydych yn ei gynrychioli chief executive and its leader, who are of a oherwydd yr wythnos hon, cyfarfûm â phrif similar persuasion to your colleagues on that weithredwr ac arweinydd Bro Morgannwg, side of the Chamber, and they left perfectly sydd o liw gwleidyddol tebyg i’ch happy about the regionalisation mapping that cydweithwyr ar yr ochr yna o’r Siambr, a we have produced. gadawsant yn gwbl fodlon am y mapio rhanbarthol yr ydym wedi ei gynhyrchu.
There is no lack of transparency from the Nid oes diffyg tryloywder ar ran Llywodraeth Welsh Government regarding the future of Cymru ynglŷn â dyfodol llywodraeth leol. local government. Our manifesto was clear. Roedd ein maniffesto’n glir. Credwn We believe
‘that local representation and accountability ‘fod cynrychiolaeth ac atebolrwydd lleol yn is vital to the health of our democratic hanfodol i iechyd ein system ddemocrataidd.’ system.’
Locally elected representatives play an Mae cynrychiolwyr a etholir yn lleol yn important part in that and chwarae rhan bwysig yn hynny ac
‘have a vital scrutiny role in ensuring the ‘mae ganddynt hefyd rôl graffu bwysig yn more effective delivery of public services.’ sicrhau bod gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn cael eu cyflwyno’n fwy effeithiol.’
That is on page 27 of our manifesto if you Mae hynny ar dudalen 28 ein maniffesto os want to have a little read tonight. ydych am gael cip arno heno.
Since the election, I have made two detailed Ers yr etholiad, yr wyf wedi gwneud dau statements to the Assembly on local ddatganiad manwl i’r Cynulliad ar government and on public service reform lywodraeth leol ac ar ddiwygio gwasanaethau more widely. On 21 June I said that the cyhoeddus yn ehangach. Ar 21 Mehefin Government would focus on ‘clear dywedais y byddai’r Llywodraeth yn accountability, delivery and collaboration’. I canolbwyntio ar ‘atebolrwydd clir, darparu a made it clear that local government chydweithredu’. Gwneuthum yn glir nad yw reorganisation is not on the agenda and ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol ar yr agenda a reiterated that I would push forward with the dywedais eto y byddwn yn bwrw ymlaen ag Simpson reform agenda, along with other agenda diwygio Simpson, ynghyd ag major reviews in areas such as education and adolygiadau o bwys eraill mewn meysydd fel social services. At the same time, I set out the addysg a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Ar yr case for regional delivery and expressed my un pryd, amlinellais fy achos dros ddarparu’n frustration at the slow pace of change. I said rhanbarthol a dywedais fy mod yn that we needed coherence with local health rhwystredig am ba mor araf oedd y newid. boards and police boundaries and that I Dywedais fod arnom angen cydlyniaeth gyda would revamp the local government ffiniau byrddau iechyd lleol a’r heddlu ac y partnership council to drive public service byddwn yn ailwampio’r cyngor partneriaeth reform. llywodraeth leol er mwyn gyrru diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn ei flaen.
I followed that with a further detailed Dilynais hynny gyda datganiad manwl arall statement on 13 July. I do not know whether ar 13 Gorffennaf. Nid wyf yn gwybod a you were too busy or whether you just did oeddech yn rhy brysur neu pa un a wnaethoch not read the statement; I think that it was the ddim darllen y datganiad; credaf mai’r olaf
133 21/09/2011 latter. However, in Plenary, I indicated the sy’n wir. Fodd bynnag, yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, issues that I was due to discuss with the local soniais am y materion y byddwn yn eu trafod government partnership council on 21 July. I gyda’r cyngor partneriaeth llywodraeth leol made it clear in that statement that I wanted ar 21 Gorffennaf. Gwneuthum yn glir yn y to brief Members before we went into recess, datganiad hwnnw fy mod eisiau briffio so I am not sure which bit of that was not Aelodau cyn inni fynd i mewn i’r toriad, felly transparent to you. In that statement, I nid wyf yn siŵr pa ran o hynny nad oedd yn informed Members of the Welsh dryloyw i chi. Yn y datganiad hwnnw, Government’s intention to move to a dywedais wrth Aelodau am fwriad common regional footprint and explained the Llywodraeth Cymru i symud at ôl troed rationale for that and how I intend to proceed. rhanbarthol cyffredin ac eglurais y rhesymeg It may be helpful if I resend that to Members am hynny a sut yr oeddwn yn bwriadu bwrw for another read—or perhaps a first read. iddi. Efallai y byddai o ddefnydd pe bawn yn ailanfon hynny at Aelodau er mwyn cael cip arall arno—neu gip cyntaf efallai.
My statement on 13 July could not have been Roedd fy natganiad ar 13 Gorffennaf yn any clearer. I said that hollol glir. Dywedais
‘This is not local government re-organisation ‘Nid ffordd o ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol yn y by stealth. It is a better and quicker dirgel yw hyn. Mae’r dull hwn yn un gwell a approach…joining up services to meet the chyflymach...i gydgysylltu gwasanaethau er needs of individuals and communities across mwyn cwrdd ag anghenion unigolion a Wales.’ chymunedau ledled Cymru.’
That is exactly what Julie James said. We Dyna’n union beth y dywedodd Julie James. should not be taking our eye off the ball for Ni ddylem anghofio’r pethau pwysig ar gyfer reorganisation. ad-drefnu.
I believe that Members will recognise that I Credaf y bydd Aelodau yn cydnabod y bûm have been perfectly open and transparent in yn hollol agored a thryloyw o ran fy my approach to local government, but if ymagwedd at lywodraeth leol, ond os oes anyone still has any doubt, let me be amheuaeth gan unrhyw un o hyd, gadewch i absolutely clear now: not only would mi fod yn hollol glir yn awr; byddai ad- reorganisation be a distraction from the need drefnu nid yn unig yn tynnu sylw o’r angen i to deliver better services for the people of ddarparu gwasanaethau gwell i bobl Cymru, Wales, but there is no guarantee that ond nid oes sicrwydd ychwaith y byddai ad- reorganisation would be a magic bullet either. drefnu yn datrys pob problem. Nid oes fawr o There is little reliable evidence from dystiolaeth ddibynadwy o unrhyw le yn y byd anywhere in the world that larger authorities bod awdurdodau lleol o anghenraid yn necessarily deliver better services. Indeed, darparu gwasanaethau gwell. Yn wir, mae experiences in many places, for instance, in profiadau mewn sawl man, fel Ffrainc, France, Scandinavia, parts of Australia and Sgandinafia, rhannau o Awstralia a’r Unol the United States, show that full-scale Daleithiau, yn dangos bod cydweithio llawn collaboration between existing authorities has rhwng awdurdodau sy’n bodoli yn barod significant potential to improve services, gyda photensial sylweddol i wella quality and efficiency. That is what I propose gwasanaethau, ansawdd ac effeithlonrwydd. to do. We cannot and should not risk Dyna rwy’n bwriadu ei wneud. Ni allwn ac ni organisations taking their eye off ddylem fentro gadael i sefydliadau anghofio performance. pa mor bwysig y mae perfformiad.
6.00 p.m.
As outlined by Members today, there are Fel y soniodd Aelodau heddiw, mae several authorities where commissioners have comisiynwyr wedi cael eu rhoi mewn sawl
134 21/09/2011 been placed due to service failings across awdurdod ledled Cymru oherwydd Wales. That is not acceptable to the general methiannau mewn gwasanaeth. Nid yw public and if there are Members in the hynny’n dderbyniol i’r cyhoedd ac os oes Chamber who wish to preserve that element, Aelodau yn y Siambr sy’n dymuno cadw’r it is certainly not my view. Where we need to elfen honno, nid fy marn i yw honno’n intervene on public services, we will. There bendant. Lle bynnag y bo’n rhaid i ni have been no secrets about my position ymyrryd mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, fe during this process. The present situation of wnawn. Ni fu unrhyw gyfrinach am fy 22 authorities replicating delivery is simply safbwynt yn ystod y broses hon. Nid yw’r not sustainable. That was confirmed by the sefyllfa bresennol, sef 22 awdurdod yn Simpson review and other reviews, as I ailadrodd darpariaeth, yn gynaliadwy. mentioned earlier. Cadarnhawyd hynny gan adolygiad Simpson ac adolygiadau eraill, fel y soniais yn gynharach.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Given the statement Rhodri Glyn Thomas: O ystyried y that you have just made, what is your view of datganiad yr ydych newydd ei wneud, beth the decision of Rhondda Cynon Taf to yw eich barn am benderfyniad Rhondda appoint a director of education and to Cynon Taf i benodi cyfarwyddwr addysg a increase his salary by £21,000? chynyddu ei gyflog £21,000?
Carl Sargeant: This has nothing to do with Carl Sargeant: Nid oes â wnelo hyn ddim â party politics, as you mentioned earlier in the gwleidyddiaeth bleidiol, fel y dywedoch yn debate. I have been clear about local gynharach yn y ddadl. Bûm yn glir am government making local decisions. I am lywodraeth leol yn gwneud penderfyniadau creating a framework that I expect them to lleol. Rwy’n creu fframwaith y disgwyliaf work within. iddynt weithio o’i fewn.
Peter, you raised the issue of the complexities Peter, gwnaethoch sôn am y cymhlethdodau surrounding education boundaries and the o ran ffiniau addysgiadol a gweithredu’n regionalisation of operation. While it is clear rhanbarthol. Er bod hynny’n amlwg i’r to the partnership council and all its leaders, I cyngor partneriaeth a’i arweinwyr, nid wyf do not want to see the unpicking of pre- am weld penderfyniadau a wnaed eisoes yn arranged decisions. This was one of them. It cael eu dadwneud. Roedd hwn yn un started many months ago and it has ohonynt. Dechreuodd fisoedd lawer yn ôl a demonstrated delivery. The only part of the dangosodd ei fod yn cyflawni. Yr unig ran boundaries that the Minister for education has o’r ffiniau y gwnaeth y Gweinidog addysg ei brought in is the Bridgend element. I met gyflwyno oedd yr elfen Pen-y-bont. with Bridgend County Borough Council last Cyfarfûm â Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen- week and it is comfortable with the position y-bont ar Ogwr yr wythnos diwethaf ac of regional operation. I am not sure who you mae’n gyffyrddus gyda gweithredu’n are representing because that is not the rhanbarthol. Nid wyf yn siŵr pwy rydych yn message that I am picking up from leaders ei gynrychioli achos nid dyna yw’r neges across Wales. rwy’n ei chael gan arweinwr ar draws Cymru.
The motion calls for a full and open debate Mae’r cynnig yn galw am ddadl lawn ac on the delivery of public services, and I am agored ar ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, more than happy to have that. I welcome ac rwy’n fwy na bodlon ei chael. Rwy’n conversation with the public at large and am croesawu sgwrs gyda’r cyhoedd yn ehangach happy to have that debate in the Chamber as ac rwy’n fodlon cael y ddadl honno yn y well, and I will keep Members informed as to Siambr hefyd, a byddaf yn rhoi’r wybodaeth my future proposals regarding how we will ddiweddaraf i Aelodau am fy nghynigion yn develop these structures. However, let us not y dyfodol o ran sut y byddwn yn datblygu’r let talking get in the way of public service strwythurau hyn. Fodd bynnag, gadewch i ni improvements. Let us start delivering them beidio â gadael i siarad fod yn rhwystr i
135 21/09/2011 now. Reorganisation is a distraction and welliannau mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. people who want to talk about reorganisation Gadewch i ni ddechrau eu cyflwyno yn awr. are taking their eye off the ball when it comes Mae ad-drefnu yn tynnu sylw pobl oddi ar y to public service delivery. I will not be one of prif faterion ac mae pobl sy’n siarad am ad- them, and my cabinet colleagues support me drefnu yn colli golwg ar ddarparu in that process. gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Nid wyf i am fod yn un ohonynt, ac mae fy nghydweithwyr yn y cabinet yn fy nghefnogi yn y broses honno.
Above all, we will continue to press forward Yn bennaf oll, byddwn yn dal ati i gyflwyno with delivering change so that the people of newid fel bod pobl Cymru yn gallu gweld Wales can see a real improvement in public gwelliant go iawn mewn gwasanaethau services, on which they depend in their daily cyhoeddus y maent yn dibynnu arnynt yn eu lives. Collectively, we have a role to play in bywyd bob dydd. Ar y cyd, mae gennym ran the delivery of good quality services. I hope i’w chwarae yn darparu gwasanaethau o that you can support me in that process. safon dda. Gobeithio y gallwch fy nghefnogi yn y broses honno.
Nick Ramsay: ‘Let us not let the talking get Nick Ramsay: ‘Gadewch i ni beidio â gadael in the way’: that is another sound bite from i siarad fod yn rhwystr’: dyna ddyfyniad arall the Minister, who often provides us with new gan y Gweinidog, sy’n aml yn rhoi pethau things to think about in the Chamber, even if newydd i ni feddwl amdanynt yn y Siambr, we do not always agree with them. We have hyd yn oed os nad ydym yn cytuno â nhw had a great debate today, which many bob amser. Rydym wedi cael dadl dda iawn Members have contributed to, and it needed heddiw, y cyfrannodd nifer o Aelodau ati, ac to be held, as many Members have said. roedd angen ei chael, fel y dywedodd sawl Assembly Members who have a background Aelod. Mae Aelodau Cynulliad sydd â in local government have had something chefndir llywodraeth leol wedi bod â additional to contribute to the debate, for rhywbeth ychwanegol i’w gyfrannu i’r ddadl, example, the experience that people like Aled er enghraifft, y profiad sydd gan bobl fel and Julie have. I am not going to get into the Aled a Julie. Nid wyf am fentro i’r sgwrs issue of whether Julie spent far too long as an ynghylch pa un a dreuliodd Julie lawer officer; I will leave Mick and Julie to have gormod o amser fel swyddog; gadawaf i that discussion again. Your contributions Mick a Julie gael y drafodaeth honno were very thoughtful and your points well- rhywbryd eto. Roedd eich cyfraniadau yn made. feddylgar iawn a’ch pwyntiau yn rhai da.
Point 2 of the motion on recognising the Mae pwynt 2 y cynnig am gydnabod importance of local government to pwysigrwydd llywodraeth leol i democracy in Wales is self-evident and is ddemocratiaeth yng Nghymru yn hunan- clearly crucial. It is difficult to imagine esboniadol ac yn amlwg yn bwysig. Mae’n Wales without local government. I imagine anodd dychmygu Cymru heb lywodraeth leol. that the Minister, in his darkest moments, Rwy’n dychmygu bod y Gweinidog, yn ei probably does imagine such a scenario in oriau tywyllaf, yn ôl pob tebyg yn dychmygu relation to certain authorities, but I am sure sefyllfa debyg o ran rhai awdurdodau, ond that the clouds lift once he returns to his rwy’n siŵr ei bod hi’n codi’n braf pan mae’n office and matters of state call. dychwelyd i’w swyddfa a gwaith y genedl yn galw.
Janet Finch-Saunders, in your excellent Llwyddodd Janet Finch-Saunders, yn ei opening remarks, you managed to do two sylwadau agoriadol rhagorol, i wneud dau things: you managed to wind up Ann Jones, beth: llwyddoch i gynddeiriogi Ann Jones, by not allowing her to intervene on her drwy beidio â gadael iddi ymyrryd ar ei hoff favourite subject—the roll back, or bwnc—peidio â neilltuo arian, neu i’r otherwise, of hypothecation in Wales—and, gwrthwyneb, yng Nghymru—ac yn eich
136 21/09/2011 in your discussion on the publication of trafodaeth ar gyhoeddi treuliau cyngor, council expenses, you made some good gwnaethoch rai pwyntiau da am awdurdodau points about Conservative-led authorities as a arweinir gan Geidwadwyr o ran tryloywder regards the transparency of publishing cyhoeddi treuliau dros £500. Sonioch am expenses over £500. You mentioned Newport awdurdodau Casnewydd a Bro Morganwg. and the Vale of Glamorgan councils. I think Rwy’n meddwl i chi sôn am Sir Fynwy that you also mentioned Monmouthshire, but hefyd, ond nid wyf yn meddwl y gwnaeth ei I do not think that it was picked up by the meicroffon ei bigo fyny, ond yn sicr fe microphone, but I certainly heard that. glywais hynny. [Chwerthin.] [Laughter.]
In a contribution that was, in many ways, Mewn cyfraniad a oedd yn anarferol mewn extraordinary, Rhodri Glyn Thomas sawl ffordd, heriodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas y challenged the Minister to come clean on his Gweinidog i ddatgelu beth oedd ei gynlluniau plans for local government, and whether he ar gyfer llywodraeth leol, a pa un a yw’n intends a wholesale reorganisation. He made bwriadu ad-drefnu ar raddfa fawr. Gwnaeth a technical point about different authorities bwynt technegol am rannu swyddogion sharing officers, and asked how that would rhwng gwahanol awdurdodau, a gofynnodd work in practice if you had two authorities sut byddai hynny yn gweithio’n ymarferol pe with different political agendas and beliefs. bai gennych ddau awdurdod gydag agenda a We need to hear more from the Minister on chredo wleidyddol wahanol. Mae angen i ni that issue. I will give way to Joyce Watson. glywed mwy gan y Gweinidog ar y mater hwnnw. Derbyniaf ymyriad gan Joyce Watson.
Joyce Watson: Thank you for giving way. Joyce Watson: Diolch am dderbyn ymyriad. You make the point about transparency in Gwnaethoch bwynt am dryloywder mewn local government and the publishing of llywodraeth leol a chyhoeddi gwariant fel pe expenditure as if it is the answer to bai’n ateb i bopeth. Nid wyf yn gallu cytuno everything. I cannot agree on that because I â hynny gan fy mod yn byw yn sir Benfro ac live in Pembrokeshire and the publishing of ni fyddai cyhoeddi’r gwariant ar wasanaethau expenditure on services there would not have yno wedi datgelu’r llanastr yn yr adran revealed the mess in the education addysg, nad oedd wedi bod yn gofalu am department, which has not been looking after fuddiannau plant. children’s interests.
Nick Ramsay: We will have to agree to Nick Ramsay: Bydd yn rhaid i ni gytuno i differ on that, Joyce. Suzy Davies, in her anghytuno ar hynny, Joyce. Soniodd Suzy contribution, talked about the problems in Davies yn ei chyfraniad am y problemau yn Pembrokeshire. The publication of expenses sir Benfro. Ni fydd cyhoeddi treuliau yn will not solve every problem, but any datrys pob problem, ond mae unrhyw Aelod Assembly Member who thinks that a lack of Cynulliad sy’n meddwl bod diffyg transparency and clarity in local government tryloywder ac eglurder mewn llywodraeth will bring about a better situation is leol yn arwain at sefyllfa well yn cyfeiliorni. misguided. We need a balance. Mae arnom angen cydbwysedd.
Angela Burns spoke about trust and honesty, Soniodd Angela Burns am ymddiriedaeth a and gave the Minister three options—I could gonestrwydd, a rhoddodd dri dewis i’r see his eyebrows raised as he tried to think Gweinidog—fe welais ei aeliau’n codi wrth what the third could be. The options were iddo drio meddwl beth oedd y trydydd. Y ‘yes’, ‘no’, or ‘let us have that debate’. To be dewisiadau oedd ‘ie’, ‘na’, neu ‘gadewch i ni fair to the Minister, he said more clearly in gael dadl’. I fod yn deg â’r Gweinidog, his closing remarks that he does not want dywedodd yn fwy clir yn ei sylwadau wrth wholesale reorganisation of local gloi nad yw am ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol ar government. I welcome that, and think that raddfa fawr. Rwy’n croesawu hynny, a
137 21/09/2011 the point needs to be made more strongly, chredaf bod angen gwneud y pwynt yn because, as many Members have said, there gryfach, oherwydd, fel y dywedodd sawl is confusion in local government. Unless it Aelod, mae dryswch yn llywodraeth leol. Oni has the stability of knowing where it will be bai fod ganddi’r sicrwydd o wybod lle y bydd in a few years’ time, then the all-important mewn ychydig flynyddoedd, yna bydd effaith delivery of public services will be affected. ar ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, sy’n Going back to Angela Burns’s point, she said hollbwysig. I ddod yn ôl at bwynt Angela that it was important that local people felt Burns, dywedodd ei bod yn bwysig bod pobl that there was transparency. Local people leol yn teimlo fod tryloywder. Yn aml, nid often do not care what level of politics they oes ots gan bobl leol pa lefel o wleidyddiaeth are dealing with. I know that when maent yn ymwneud ag ef. Pan ddaw etholwyr constituents come to see me in surgeries, they i fy ngweld mewn cymorthfeydd, nid ydynt are not always aware of what my exact role yn gwybod bob amser beth yw fy rôl yn is—you probably cannot forgive them for union—mae’n debyg y gallwch faddau that in some ways. However, they certainly iddynt am hynny mewn rhai ffyrdd. Fodd want a representative, whether it is their bynnag, maent yn sicr eisiau cynrychiolydd, councillor, their Assembly Member, or their pa un a ydyw eu cynghorydd, eu Haelod MP, who will listen to their concerns. Cynulliad, neu eu Haelod Seneddol, a fydd yn gwrando ar eu pryderon.
Mark Isherwood referred to the cloak-and- Cyfeiriodd Mark Isherwood at ymagwedd dagger approach of the Local Government lechwraidd Mesur Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) (Wales) Measure 2011, when the Minister 2011, pan gyflwynodd y Gweinidog welliant brought forward a late amendment that hwyr a oedd fel pe bai wedi cael ei ruthro seemed to be rushed through, and which trwyddo, a achosodd lawer o bryder mewn caused a lot of concern in local authorities. I awdurdodau lleol. Rwy’n cofio siarad â’r remember talking to the Minister at the time Gweinidog ar y pryd a chytuno, mewn sawl and agreeing that, in many respects, it is ffordd, ei bod yn ddefnyddiol bod gan helpful for the Welsh Government to have Llywodraeth Cymru yr arfau yn ei meddiant, tools at its disposal, but it goes to show how, ond mae’n dangos, pan rydych yn gwneud when you are making decisions that affect penderfyniadau sy’n effeithio ar awdurdodau local authorities, it is vital that they are lleol, ei fod yn hanfodol eu bod nhw’n dod carried along with it, and that they do not feel gyda chi, ac nad ydynt yn teimlo bod rhyw that there is some sort of top-down approach genadwri oddi uwch sydd ddim yn ateb i’w that is not responding to their concerns. pryderon.
I will finish shortly, Deputy Presiding Dof i ben cyn bo hir, Ddirprwy Lywydd, Officer, because it has been a long day. oherwydd bu’n ddiwrnod hir. [Chwerthin.] [Laughter.] Who said that it was getting Pwy ddywedodd ei fod yn mynd yn hirach? longer?
Aled Roberts spoke about the Minister Soniodd Aled Roberts fod y Gweinidog yn having an understanding of the local deall y broblem llywodraeth leol, ond nad government problem, but a lack of clarity on oedd yn eglur amdani; roedd hwnnw’n fater a it; that has come up again and again in gododd dro ar ôl tro yng nghyfraniadau today’s contributions. As I said, I welcome heddiw. Fel y dywedais, rwy’n croesawu bod the fact that the Minister has said that it is not y Gweinidog wedi dweud nad yw’n fwriad his intention to reorganise. We need to have ganddo i ad-drefnu. Mae angen i ni gael y this debate loud and clear. That is why we are ddadl hon i bawb ei chlywed. Dyna pam ein here today and that is why Members from all bod yma heddiw a dyna pam fod Aelodau o parties have contributed. Let us face it: bob plaid wedi cyfrannu. Gadewch i ni fod without local government, service delivery on yn onest: heb lywodraeth leol, ni fyddai the ground would not be happening. Local gwasanaethau yn cal eu darparu ar lawr government needs stability so that councillors gwlad. Mae angen sefydlogrwydd ar and officers working for councils across lywodraeth leol fel bod cynghorwyr a
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Wales can get the sort of support that they swyddogion sy’n gweithio i gynghorau ledled need and deserve from the Welsh Cymru yn cael y math o gefnogaeth maent ei Government. hangen a’i haeddu gan Lywodraeth Cymru.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: The Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cwestiwn yw a proposal is to agree the motion without ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A amendment. Does any Member object? I see oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf that there are objections, so I defer voting on fod gwrthwynebiad, felly gohiriaf bleidleisio this item until voting time. ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
We have now reached voting time. Are there Rydym bellach wedi cyrraedd y cyfnod three Members who wish the bell to be rung? pleidleisio. A oes tri Aelod sy’n dymuno i’r I see that there are not, so we will proceed. gloch gael ei chanu? Gwelaf nad oes, felly symudwn ymlaen.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Voting deferred until voting time.
Cyfnod Pleidleisio Voting Time
Cynnig NDM4798: O blaid 23, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 33. Motion NDM4798: For 23, Abstain 0, Against 33.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Burns, Angela Antoniw, Mick Davies, Andrew R.T. Black, Peter Davies, Byron Chapman, Christine Davies, Jocelyn Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Paul Davies, Alun Davies, Suzy Davies, Keith Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Drakeford, Mark Finch-Saunders, Janet Evans, Rebecca George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Griffiths, John Isherwood, Mark Griffiths, Lesley Jenkins, Bethan Hart, Edwina Jones, Alun Ffred Hedges, Mike Jones, Elin Hutt, Jane Millar, Darren James, Julie Ramsay, Nick Jones, Ann Sandbach, Antoinette Jones, Carwyn Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Lewis, Huw Thomas, Simon Mewies, Sandy Whittle, Lindsay Morgan, Julie Wood, Leanne Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
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Gwrthodwyd y cynnig. Motion not agreed.
Gwelliant 1 i NDM4798: O blaid 56, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0. Amendment 1 to NDM4798: For 56, Abstain 0, Against 0.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: The following Members voted for:
Andrews, Leighton Antoniw, Mick Asghar, Mohammad Black, Peter Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Alun Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Byron Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Keith Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane Isherwood, Mark James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Ramsay, Nick Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sandbach, Antoinette Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay
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Wood, Leanne
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.
Cynnig NDM4798 fel y’i diwygiwyd: Motion NDM4798 as amended:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Yn nodi â phryder bod llai na hanner 1. Notes with concern that less than half of gorsafoedd rheilffordd Cymru yn hollol Wales’ railway stations are fully accessible hygyrch i bobl anabl; to disabled people;
2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i: 2. Calls for the Welsh Government to: a) Wneud trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn fwy a) Make public transport more accessible, hygyrch, drwy ddarparu gwybodaeth through the provision of audio-visual glyweledol ac ymestyn y Cerdyn Bws information and extension of the Companion Cydymaith; a Bus Pass; and b) Hybu ymwybyddiaeth a hyfforddiant staff b) Promote staff awareness and training in mewn perthynas â gofynion teithwyr anabl; disabled passenger requirements; and ac
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau ei 3. Calls for the Welsh government to ensure bod yn ymgynghori’n llawn â phobl anabl a that it fully consults with disabled people and chynrychiolwyr grwpiau anabledd wrth representatives of disability groups in ddatblygu unrhyw gynlluniau ar gyfer gwella developing any plans for improvements for hygyrchedd i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. accessibility to public transport.
Cynnig NDM4798 fel y’i diwygiwyd: O blaid 27, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 29. Motion NDM4798 as amended: For 27, Abstain 0, Against 29.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Byron Davies, Alun Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Keith Davies, Paul Drakeford, Mark Davies, Suzy Evans, Rebecca Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Gething, Vaughan Finch-Saunders, Janet Gregory, Janice George, Russell Griffiths, John Graham, William Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Isherwood, Mark Hedges, Mike Jenkins, Bethan Hutt, Jane Jones, Alun Ffred James, Julie Jones, Elin Jones, Ann Millar, Darren Jones, Carwyn Parrott, Eluned Lewis, Huw Powell, William Mewies, Sandy Ramsay, Nick Morgan, Julie Roberts, Aled Neagle, Lynne Sandbach, Antoinette Price, Gwyn R.
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Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Rathbone, Jenny Thomas, Simon Rees, David Whittle, Lindsay Sargeant, Carl Wood, Leanne Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
Gwrthodwyd cynnig NDM4798 fel y’i diwygiwyd. Motion NDM4798 as amended not agreed.
Cynnig NDM4800: O blaid 11, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 45. Motion NDM4800: For 11, Abstain 0, Against 45.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Davies, Jocelyn Antoniw, Mick Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Black, Peter Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Burns, Angela Jenkins, Bethan Chapman, Christine Jones, Alun Ffred Cuthbert, Jeff Jones, Elin Davies, Alun Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Davies, Andrew R.T. Thomas, Simon Davies, Byron Whittle, Lindsay Davies, Keith Wood, Leanne Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane Isherwood, Mark James, Julie Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Ramsay, Nick Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sandbach, Antoinette Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig. Motion not agreed.
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Gwelliant 1 i NDM4800: O blaid 13, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 43. Amendment 1 to NDM4800: For 13, Abstain 0, Against 43.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Burns, Angela Antoniw, Mick Davies, Andrew R.T. Black, Peter Davies, Byron Chapman, Christine Davies, Paul Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Suzy Davies, Alun Finch-Saunders, Janet Davies, Jocelyn George, Russell Davies, Keith Graham, William Drakeford, Mark Isherwood, Mark Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Millar, Darren Evans, Rebecca Ramsay, Nick Gething, Vaughan Sandbach, Antoinette Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.
Gwelliant 2 i NDM4800: O blaid 17, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 39. Amendment 2 to NDM4800: For 17, Abstain 0, Against 39.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Byron Davies, Alun Davies, Paul Davies, Jocelyn
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Davies, Suzy Davies, Keith Finch-Saunders, Janet Drakeford, Mark George, Russell Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Graham, William Evans, Rebecca Isherwood, Mark Gething, Vaughan Millar, Darren Gregory, Janice Parrott, Eluned Griffiths, John Powell, William Griffiths, Lesley Ramsay, Nick Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Roberts, Aled Hart, Edwina Sandbach, Antoinette Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.
Gwelliant 3 i NDM4800: O blaid 29, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 27. Amendment 3 to NDM4800: For 29, Abstain 0, Against 27.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Alun Davies, Byron Davies, Keith Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Gregory, Janice Finch-Saunders, Janet Griffiths, John George, Russell Griffiths, Lesley Graham, William Hart, Edwina Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Hutt, Jane Jenkins, Bethan James, Julie Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Jones, Carwyn Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Parrott, Eluned Mewies, Sandy Powell, William Morgan, Julie Ramsay, Nick Neagle, Lynne Roberts, Aled Price, Gwyn R. Sandbach, Antoinette
144 21/09/2011
Rathbone, Jenny Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Rees, David Thomas, Simon Sargeant, Carl Whittle, Lindsay Skates, Kenneth Wood, Leanne Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.
Gwelliant 4 i NDM4800: O blaid 13, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 43. Amendment 4 to NDM4800: For 13, Abstain 0, Against 43.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Burns, Angela Antoniw, Mick Davies, Andrew R.T. Black, Peter Davies, Byron Chapman, Christine Davies, Paul Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Suzy Davies, Alun Finch-Saunders, Janet Davies, Jocelyn George, Russell Davies, Keith Graham, William Drakeford, Mark Isherwood, Mark Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Millar, Darren Evans, Rebecca Ramsay, Nick Gething, Vaughan Sandbach, Antoinette Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.
145 21/09/2011
Gwelliant 5 i NDM4800: O blaid 17, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 39. Amendment 5 to NDM4800: For 17, Abstain 0, Against 39.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Byron Davies, Alun Davies, Paul Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Suzy Davies, Keith Finch-Saunders, Janet Drakeford, Mark George, Russell Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Graham, William Evans, Rebecca Isherwood, Mark Gething, Vaughan Millar, Darren Gregory, Janice Parrott, Eluned Griffiths, John Powell, William Griffiths, Lesley Ramsay, Nick Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Roberts, Aled Hart, Edwina Sandbach, Antoinette Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.
Gwelliant 6 i NDM4800: O blaid 56, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0. Amendment 6 to NDM4800: For 56, Abstain 0, Against 0.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: The following Members voted for:
Andrews, Leighton Antoniw, Mick Asghar, Mohammad Black, Peter Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Alun Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Byron
146 21/09/2011
Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Keith Davies, Paul Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet George, Russell Gething, Vaughan Graham, William Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane Isherwood, Mark James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Millar, Darren Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Ramsay, Nick Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sandbach, Antoinette Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.
Cynnig NDM4800 fel y’i diwygiwyd: Motion NDM4800 as amended:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Yn nodi: 1. Notes: a) Y toriadau difrifol yn y cyllid cyfalaf sydd a) The severe cuts in capital funding ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru; available to the Welsh government; b) Y gweithredu a fu gan Lywodraeth b) The action taken by the current Welsh gyfredol Cymru i ganfod a denu ffynonellau government to identify and attract new newydd o gyllid i Gymru; ac sources of funding to Wales; and
147 21/09/2011
c) Effeithiau’r hinsawdd economaidd c) The effects of the current economic bresennol, gan gynnwys yr anawsterau sy’n climate, including the difficulties faced by wynebu busnesau Cymru oherwydd yr Welsh businesses due to slowing global amodau byd-eang sy’n arafu a’r bygythiadau conditions and resulting threats to jobs; i swyddi yn sgil hynny;
2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i: 2. Calls on the Welsh government to: a) Mynd ati’n rhagweithiol i chwilio am a) Proactively seek out additional funding ffrydiau ariannu ychwanegol i Gymru yn yr streams for Wales as governments of other un modd ag y mae llywodraethau gwledydd devolved nations have done; datganoledig eraill wedi’i wneud; b) Gweithio gyda’r sector cyhoeddus yng b) Work with the Welsh public sector to Nghymru i gyflwyno newidiadau i arferion urgently bring forward changes to caffael ar frys er mwyn ysgogi diwydiant a procurement practises in order to stimulate chreu swyddi yng Nghymru; a industry and job creation in Wales; and c) Chyflwyno sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU i c) Make representation to the UK gyflwyno toriad dros dro mewn TAW er government to introduce a temporary cut in mwyn ysgogi twf economaidd ymhellach; ac VAT in order to further stimulate economic growth; and
3. Yn galw ar yr holl bleidiau a gynrychiolir 3. Calls on all parties represented in the yn y Cynulliad i weithio’n adeiladol ar y Assembly to work constructively with the broses debyg i Calman sy’n cael ei chynnal Calman-style process being conducted by the gan Lywodraeth y DU. UK Government.
Cynnig NDM4800 fel y’i diwygiwyd: O blaid 30, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 26. Motion NDM4800 as amended: For 30, Abstain 0, Against 26.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Alun Davies, Byron Davies, Keith Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Davies, Suzy Evans, Rebecca Finch-Saunders, Janet Gething, Vaughan George, Russell Gregory, Janice Graham, William Griffiths, John Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Griffiths, Lesley Isherwood, Mark Hart, Edwina Jenkins, Bethan Hedges, Mike Jones, Alun Ffred Hutt, Jane Jones, Elin James, Julie Millar, Darren Jones, Ann Parrott, Eluned Jones, Carwyn Powell, William Lewis, Huw Ramsay, Nick Mewies, Sandy Roberts, Aled Morgan, Julie Sandbach, Antoinette Neagle, Lynne Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Price, Gwyn R. Thomas, Simon Rathbone, Jenny Whittle, Lindsay
148 21/09/2011
Rees, David Wood, Leanne Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
Derbyniwyd cynnig NDM4800 fel y’i diwygiwyd. Motion NDM4800 as amended agreed.
6.15 p.m.
Cynnig NDM4799: O blaid 22, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 34. Motion NDM4799: For 22, Abstain 0, Against 34.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Burns, Angela Antoniw, Mick Davies, Andrew R.T. Black, Peter Davies, Byron Chapman, Christine Davies, Jocelyn Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Paul Davies, Alun Davies, Suzy Davies, Keith Finch-Saunders, Janet Drakeford, Mark George, Russell Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Graham, William Evans, Rebecca Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Gething, Vaughan Isherwood, Mark Gregory, Janice Jenkins, Bethan Griffiths, John Jones, Alun Ffred Griffiths, Lesley Jones, Elin Hart, Edwina Millar, Darren Hedges, Mike Ramsay, Nick Hutt, Jane Sandbach, Antoinette James, Julie Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Jones, Ann Thomas, Simon Jones, Carwyn Whittle, Lindsay Lewis, Huw Wood, Leanne Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig. Motion not agreed.
Gwelliant 1 i NDM4799: O blaid 29, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 27. Amendment 1 to NDM4799: For 29, Abstain 0, Against 27.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela
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Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Alun Davies, Byron Davies, Keith Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Gregory, Janice Finch-Saunders, Janet Griffiths, John George, Russell Griffiths, Lesley Graham, William Hart, Edwina Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Hutt, Jane Jenkins, Bethan James, Julie Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Jones, Carwyn Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Parrott, Eluned Mewies, Sandy Powell, William Morgan, Julie Ramsay, Nick Neagle, Lynne Roberts, Aled Price, Gwyn R. Sandbach, Antoinette Rathbone, Jenny Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Rees, David Thomas, Simon Sargeant, Carl Whittle, Lindsay Skates, Kenneth Wood, Leanne Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.
Gwelliant 2 i NDM4799: O blaid 39, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 17. Amendment 2 to NDM4799: For 39, Abstain 0, Against 17.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Alun Davies, Byron Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Paul Davies, Keith Davies, Suzy Drakeford, Mark Finch-Saunders, Janet Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord George, Russell Evans, Rebecca Graham, William Gething, Vaughan Isherwood, Mark Gregory, Janice Millar, Darren Griffiths, John Parrott, Eluned Griffiths, Lesley Powell, William Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Ramsay, Nick Hart, Edwina Roberts, Aled Hedges, Mike Sandbach, Antoinette Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny
150 21/09/2011
Rees, David Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant. Amendment agreed.
Gwelliant 3 i NDM4799: O blaid 44, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 12. Amendment 3 to NDM4799: For 44, Abstain 0, Against 12.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Black, Peter Davies, Andrew R.T. Chapman, Christine Davies, Byron Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Paul Davies, Alun Davies, Suzy Davies, Jocelyn George, Russell Davies, Keith Graham, William Drakeford, Mark Isherwood, Mark Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Millar, Darren Evans, Rebecca Ramsay, Nick Finch-Saunders, Janet Sandbach, Antoinette Gething, Vaughan Gregory, Janice Griffiths, John Griffiths, Lesley Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hart, Edwina Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Parrott, Eluned Powell, William Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Roberts, Aled Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
151 21/09/2011
Amendment agreed.
Gwelliant 4 i NDM4799: O blaid 17, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 39. Amendment 4 to NDM4799: For 17, Abstain 0, Against 39.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Byron Davies, Alun Davies, Paul Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Suzy Davies, Keith Finch-Saunders, Janet Drakeford, Mark George, Russell Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Graham, William Evans, Rebecca Isherwood, Mark Gething, Vaughan Millar, Darren Gregory, Janice Parrott, Eluned Griffiths, John Powell, William Griffiths, Lesley Ramsay, Nick Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Roberts, Aled Hart, Edwina Sandbach, Antoinette Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.
Gwelliant 5 i NDM4799: O blaid 17, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 39. Amendment 5 to NDM4799: For 17, Abstain 0, Against 39.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Asghar, Mohammad Andrews, Leighton Black, Peter Antoniw, Mick Burns, Angela Chapman, Christine Davies, Andrew R.T. Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Byron Davies, Alun Davies, Paul Davies, Jocelyn Davies, Suzy Davies, Keith Finch-Saunders, Janet Drakeford, Mark
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George, Russell Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Graham, William Evans, Rebecca Isherwood, Mark Gething, Vaughan Millar, Darren Gregory, Janice Parrott, Eluned Griffiths, John Powell, William Griffiths, Lesley Ramsay, Nick Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Roberts, Aled Hart, Edwina Sandbach, Antoinette Hedges, Mike Hutt, Jane James, Julie Jenkins, Bethan Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Carwyn Jones, Elin Lewis, Huw Mewies, Sandy Morgan, Julie Neagle, Lynne Price, Gwyn R. Rathbone, Jenny Rees, David Sargeant, Carl Skates, Kenneth Thomas, Gwenda Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, Simon Watson, Joyce Whittle, Lindsay Wood, Leanne
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant. Amendment not agreed.
Cynnig NDM4799 fel y’i diwygiwyd: Motion NDM4799 as amended:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru: To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Yn nodi’r cyfarwyddyd clir a roddwyd gan 1. Notes the clear direction provided by the Lywodraeth Cymru i lywodraeth leol, gan Welsh Government to local government, gynnwys yn y Cyngor Partneriaeth including at the Local Government Llywodraeth Leol ym mis Gorffennaf ac yn Partnership Council in July and in the natganiad ysgrifenedig y Gweinidog Minister for Local Government and Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau i’r Communities’ written statement to the Cynulliad ar 13 Gorffennaf 2011; Assembly of 13 July 2011;
2. Yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd bod 2. Recognises the importance of local llywodraeth leol yn rhan sylfaenol o government as being fundamental to ddemocratiaeth yng Nghymru; democracy in Wales;
3. Yn cydnabod y pwysau sylweddol a roddir 3. Recognises the severe pressures placed on ar lywodraeth leol o ganlyniad i’r toriadau local government due to funding cuts mewn cyllid a orfodwyd gan Lywodraeth y imposed by the UK Government; and DU; a
4. Yn galw am ddadl lawn ac agored 4. Calls for a full and open debate on the ynghylch cyflenwi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus delivery of public services which includes sy’n cynnwys trafodaeth am ad-drefnu a’r discussion about reorganisation and services gwasanaethau y tu allan i lywodraeth leol fel outside local government such as health,
153 21/09/2011 iechyd, addysg uwch ac addysg bellach, higher and further education, transport and trafnidiaeth a datblygu economaidd a community and economic development. chymunedol.
Cynnig NDM4799 fel y’i diwygiwyd: O blaid 29, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 27. Motion NDM4799 as amended: For 29, Abstain 0, Against 27.
Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid: Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn: The following Members voted for: The following Members voted against:
Andrews, Leighton Asghar, Mohammad Antoniw, Mick Black, Peter Chapman, Christine Burns, Angela Cuthbert, Jeff Davies, Andrew R.T. Davies, Alun Davies, Byron Davies, Keith Davies, Jocelyn Drakeford, Mark Davies, Paul Evans, Rebecca Davies, Suzy Gething, Vaughan Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord Gregory, Janice Finch-Saunders, Janet Griffiths, John George, Russell Griffiths, Lesley Graham, William Hart, Edwina Gruffydd, Llyr Huws Hedges, Mike Isherwood, Mark Hutt, Jane Jenkins, Bethan James, Julie Jones, Alun Ffred Jones, Ann Jones, Elin Jones, Carwyn Millar, Darren Lewis, Huw Parrott, Eluned Mewies, Sandy Powell, William Morgan, Julie Ramsay, Nick Neagle, Lynne Roberts, Aled Price, Gwyn R. Sandbach, Antoinette Rathbone, Jenny Thomas, Rhodri Glyn Rees, David Thomas, Simon Sargeant, Carl Whittle, Lindsay Skates, Kenneth Wood, Leanne Thomas, Gwenda Watson, Joyce
Derbyniwyd cynnig NDM4799 fel y’i diwygiwyd. Motion NDM4799 as amended agreed.
Dadl Fer Short Debate
Yr Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant—Yr Angen am Newid The Child Support Agency—The Need for Change
Antoinette Sandbach: I recognise that the Antoinette Sandbach: Rwy’n cydnabod nad Child Support Agency is a non-devolved yw’r Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant yn fater a matter, but it is vital that issues in relation to ddatganolwyd, ond mae’n hanfodol bod the Child Support Agency are debated and materion yn ymwneud a’r Asiantaeth Cynnal considered in Wales, and I will explain why. Plant yn cael eu trafod a’u hystyried yng Thirty-two per cent of all families in Wales Nghymru, ac egluraf pam. Mae 32 y cant o are single-parent families, and they are holl deuluoedd Cymru yn deuluoedd rhiant families that cut across all social and cultural sengl, ac maent yn deuluoedd sy’n dod o bob backgrounds. Some 70,920 families in Wales cefndir cymdeithasol a diwylliannol. Cesglir currently have their child maintenance cynhaliaeth plant 70,290 o deuluoedd yng collected through the Child Support Agency, Nghymru ar hyn o bryd drwy’r Asiantaeth
154 21/09/2011 of which 14,970 are in north Wales. The level Cynnal Plant, ac y mae 14,970 ohonynt yn y of single-parent families is significantly more gogledd. Mae nifer y teuluoedd rhiant sengl than the national average of 23 per cent. It is yn sylweddol uwch na 23 y cant, y vital that problems with the Child Support cyfartaledd cenedlaethol. Mae’n hanfodol fod Agency are addressed on a UK level, when problemau gyda’r Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant yn you consider what they mean to Welsh single cael eu datrys ar lefel y Deyrnas Unedig, pan parents, most of whom are female. Not all ystyriwch beth y maent yn ei olygu i rieni lone parents are women, but most are. The sengl o Gymru, y mae’r rhan fwyaf ohonynt amount of outstanding arrears owed to single yn fenywod. Nid yw pob rhiant sengl yn parents across the local authorities in north fenyw, ond mae’r mwyafrif. Y swm o ôl- Wales is £35 million. Lone carers of children ddyledion sy’n ddyledus i rieni sengl ar in north Wales are being denied the spending draws awdurdodau lleol yn y gogledd yw £35 power of that £35 million. If you look at the miliwn. Nid yw unig ofalwyr plant yn y figure for Wales as a whole, you will see that gogledd yn gallu cael gafael ar y £35 miliwn the arrears stand at £196 million. Across the hwnnw i’w wario. Os edrychwch ar y ffigur UK, the amount is around £4 billion. I have ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, fe welwch bod yr ôl chosen to debate this issue and I would ddyledion yn £196 miliwn. Ar draws y welcome interventions from other parties, Deyrnas Unedig, mae’r lefel tua £4 biliwn. because there is a clear need for the Child Rwyf wedi dewis cynnal dadl ar y pwnc hwn Support Agency. a byddwn yn croesawu cyfraniadau gan bleidiau eraill, gan fod angen clir am yr Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. I Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Rwy’n atgoffa remind Members that they are not permitted Aelodau nad oes hawl ganddynt ymyrryd ar to intervene on a Member presenting their Aelod sy’n cyflwyno dadl fer. Fodd bynnag, short debate. However, if Members indicate os yw Aelodau yn dweud wrthych eu bod yn to you that they wish to speak and you leave dymuno siarad a’ch bod yn caniatáu amser, time, Antoinette, I would be able to fit in a Antoinette, gallwn ganfod lle i un neu ddau o couple of speakers. However, you have 15 siaradwyr. Fodd bynnag, mae gennych 15 minutes and you would have to concede munud a byddai’n rhaid i chi roi rhywfaint some of that time to them. o’r amser hwnnw iddynt.
Antoinette Sandbach: I accept that, but I Antoinette Sandbach: Rwy’n derbyn hynny, want to highlight some of the issues. ond rwyf eisiau amlygu rhai o’r materion.
I worked for an MP for four years and I know Gweithiais i AS am bedair blynedd a gwn y that many AMs will deal with child support bydd sawl AC yn ymdrin â materion cynnal issues as part of their constituency casework plant fel rhan o’u gwaith achos yn yr and they will know about the incredibly etholaeth a byddant yn gwybod am y broses frustrating process that is often a feature of rwystredig iawn sy’n aml yn nodwedd o the work of the CSA. Part of this is a legacy waith yr asiantaeth. Rhan o hyn yw etifeddu’r of the incredibly poorly thought through pecyn technoleg gwybodaeth gwael iawn ei information technology package, which cost gynllun, a gostiodd £1.1 biliwn yn 2007 ac a £1.1 billion in 2007 and was introduced gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf, under the last Government and which fails to sydd ddim yn gweithio. Torrodd y system TG work. The IT system broke down in March i lawr ym mis Mawrth eleni, sy’n golygu bod this year, meaning that over 100,000 cases yn rhaid ymdrin â thros 100,000 o achosion had to be dealt with clerically at a cost of yn glerigol ar gost o £800 fesul achos. Gellid £800 per case. That money could have been bod wedi cyfeirio’r arian hwnnw’n well, a better directed, and there has been bad value chafwyd gwerth gwael am arian. for money.
At the Child Support Agency, staff morale is Yn yr Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant, mae low and absenteeism is running at about eight hwyliau’r staff yn isel ac y maent yn
155 21/09/2011 and a half days per year, which is relatively absennol am ryw wyth niwrnod a hanner y high. flwyddyn, sy’n gymharol uchel.
The UK Government has undertaken a Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi cynnal consultation, which closed on 7 April, on the ymgynghoriad, a gaeodd ar 7 Ebrill, ar y changes to the collection of child newidiadau i’r ffordd y caiff taliadau cynnal maintenance payments. I will make it clear plant eu casglu. Dywedaf yn glir fy mod wedi that I have made submissions to Maria Miller anfon sylwadau at Maria Miller yn mynegi fy expressing my very grave concerns about the mhryderon dwys iawn am y cynigion i godi proposals to charge parents with care for the tâl ar rieni sy’n gofalu am gael defnyddio’r use of the Child Support Agency. I Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant. Rwy’n deall pam y understand why the UK Government is mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ystyried cyflwyno considering the introduction of charges; those tâl; cyflwynwyd y cynigion i godi tâl ar rieni proposals for charging parents were gan y Llywodraeth Lafur ddiwethaf a introduced by the last Labour Government chawsant eu cynnwys yn y darpariaethau i and were contained in the provisions in sefydlu’r Comisiwn Cynnal Plant a Gorfodi. relation to the setting up of the Child Fodd bynnag, dywedais fy mod yn bryderus Maintenance and Enforcement Commission. am y bydd tâl o £100 i’w dalu ymlaen llaw, However, I have expressed concern that there neu £50 i’r rhai ar fudd-daliadau, lle mae £20 will be an upfront charge of £100, or £50 for yn cael ei gymryd yn syth tra cymerir y those on benefits, of which £20 is taken gweddill mewn rhandaliadau. Rwyf hefyd yn straight away while the rest is taken in bryderus y bydd amrywiaethau yn y ffioedd installments. I am also concerned that there sy’n daladwy gan y rhiant â gofal. Ar gyfer will be a sliding scale of charges payable by unig riant, o ystyried mai’r swm cynhaliaeth the parent with care. Given that, for a lone a gesglir ar gyfartaledd bob wythnos yw £21, parent, the average amount of maintenance neu £33 os cymerwch asesiadau dim collected every week is £21, or £33 if you do cyfraniad i ystyriaeth, rwy’n bryderus am y not take nil assessments into account, I am ffioedd hynny. Fel y dywedais, rwyf wedi concerned about those charges. As I have cyflwyno’r sylwadau hynny i Lywodraeth y said, I have made those submissions to the DU. UK Government.
I am very grateful for the information that I Rwy’n ddiolchgar iawn am y wybodaeth a have had from Gingerbread, the lone-parent gefais gan Gingerbread, yr elusen unig riant, charity, which has been campaigning sydd wedi bod yn ymgyrchu’n ddiflino ar ran tirelessly on behalf of single parents, and I rhieni sengl, ac rwy’n canmol ei waith. applaud its work.
Having said all of this, the UK Government’s Wedi dweud hyn i gyd, mae’n rhaid bod nod aim to ensure that parents get support, help, Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau bod rhieni yn advice and assistance in working out not only cael cefnogaeth, help, cyngor a chymorth nid child maintenance provision, but also access yn unig o ran gweithio allan faint o and contact details, has to be better for gynhaliaeth plant i’w dalu, ond hefyd o ran children and I understand why the UK mynediad a manylion cyswllt, yn well i blant Government wishes to disincentivise the use a dyna pam fy mod yn deall pam nad yw of the Child Support Agency. If voluntary Llywodraeth y DU eisiau cymell pobl i arrangements can be put in place in relation ddefnyddio’r Asiantaeth Cynnal Plant. Os to maintenance, it very often means that gellir rhoi trefniadau gwirfoddol ar waith ar parents can get on and sort out other matters gyfer cynhaliaeth, mae hynny’n aml iawn yn quickly and easily. I accept that it will not golygu y gall rhieni fwrw ati a datrys suit everyone, but the aim of the UK materion eraill yn gyflym ac yn hawdd. Government is appropriate. Rwy’n derbyn na fydd hynny yn addas i bawb, ond mae nod Llywodraeth y DU yn briodol.
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I will allow time at the end if other Members Fe wnaf ganiatáu amser ar y diwedd os yw want to contribute. I would like to highlight Aelodau eraill yn dymuno cyfrannu. Hoffwn three problems that I feel it is vital to tackle. amlygu tair problem rwy’n teimlo ei bod yn First, there is no interest charged on those hanfodol i’w datrys. Yn gyntaf, nid oes llog arrears. So, a single parent may go into debt yn cael ei godi ar ôl-ddyledion. Felly, gallai because they are not being paid their child rhiant sengl fynd i ddyled gan nad ydynt yn maintenance and yet no interest is paid on derbyn eu taliadau cynnal plant ond eto ni those arrears. With any other debt, in any thelir llog ar yr ôl-ddyledion hynny. Heb other commercial world, if you owe money to unrhyw ddyled arall, mewn unrhyw fyd someone else, interest is chargeable, so I masnachol, os oes arnoch arian i rywun arall, think that that situation is wrong. mae llog yn cael ei godi, felly credaf fod y sefyllfa honno’n anghywir.
Secondly, time and again, the child support Yn ail, dro ar ôl tro, mae’r tribiwnlysoedd tribunals have said to the Government that cynnal plant wedi dweud wrth y Llywodraeth there are loopholes, particularly in relation to fod bylchau yn y gyfraith, yn enwedig o ran self-employed non-resident parents and rhieni hunan-gyflogedig nad ydynt yn company directors. I want to refer to a case breswylwyr a chyfarwyddwyr cwmnïau. study provided by Gingerbread. A single Rwyf eisiau cyfeirio at astudiaeth achos gan parent with a 10-year-old son contacted Gingerbread. Cysylltodd rhiant sengl Gingerbread. She was getting £5 a week in bachgen 10 oed â Gingerbread. Roedd yn child maintenance. Her ex-partner was self- cael £5 yr wythnos mewn cynhaliaeth plant. employed and, as far as she knew, had his Roedd ei chyn-bartner yn hunan-gyflogedig, own company. He was also a co-director of ac, hyd y gwyddai, roedd ganddo ei gwmni ei another company where his new partner hun. Roedd hefyd yn gyd-gyfarwyddwr worked. He drove a Porsche and had recently cwmni arall lle’r oedd ei bartner newydd yn bought his son a £600 trumpet. However, he gweithio. Roedd yn gyrru Porsche ac yr oedd told the CSA that the company had ceased wedi prynu trwmped gwerth £600 i’w fab yn trading. The CSA advised her that her ex- ddiweddar. Fodd bynnag, dywedodd wrth yr partner had a right to be believed and that it asiantaeth fod y cwmni wedi rhoi’r gorau i was up to her to prove that the maintenance fasnachu. Dywedodd yr asiantaeth fod gan ei calculation was wrong. I, too, have received chyn-bartner yr hawl i gael ei gredu ac mai that advice from the CSA. That advice is not mater iddi hi oedd profi bod swm y correct. cynhaliaeth yn anghywir. Rwyf innau wedi derbyn y cyngor hwnnw gan yr asiantaeth. Nid yw’r cyngor hwnnw yn gywir.
It has been very discouraging, with one Bu’n dorcalonnus, gydag un swyddog yn official explaining all the ways in which self- egluro’r holl ffyrdd y gall rhieni hunan- employed non-resident parents can escape gyflogedig nad ydynt yn breswylwyr ddianc paying. She had a form to apply for a rhag talu. Roedd ganddi ffurflen i wneud cais variation, but was daunted by the prospect of am amrywio’r tâl, ond roedd gorfod profi having to prove the non-resident parent’s true gwir sefyllfa ariannol y rhiant nad oedd yn financial position. There is clear evidence preswylio yn waith rhy anodd iddi. Mae and there are clear legal judgments that tystiolaeth glir a dyfarniadau cyfreithiol clir indicate that non-resident parents are using sy’n dangos bod rhieni nad ydynt yn company law to escape the requirement to preswylio yn defnyddio cyfraith cwmni i pay child maintenance. In particular, assets osgoi’r gofyniad i dalu cynhaliaeth plant. Yn such as loans from the director of a company arbennig, nid yw asedau megis benthyciadau to the director of a company are not taken gan gyfarwyddwr cwmni i gyfarwyddwr into account. That area must be addressed. cwmni yn cael eu hystyried. Rhaid mynd i’r The capital value of a house is not taken into afael â’r sefyllfa honno. Nid yw gwerth account as an asset. Clearly, changes are cyfalaf tŷ yn cael ei ystyried fel ased. Mae’n being planned and progress is being made, amlwg bod newidiadau yn yr arfaeth a bod and I know that new duties will come into cynnydd yn cael ei wneud, a gwn y bydd
157 21/09/2011 force with the Child Maintenance and dyletswyddau newydd yn dod i rym gyda’r Enforcement Commission next year. Powers Comisiwn Cynhaliaeth Plant a Gorfodi y to take away things such as driving licences flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd pwerau i gymryd and passports will have an effect. pethau fel trwyddedau gyrru a phasbortau oddi ar rywun yn dod i rym.
I will draw to a close now, because I would Dof i ben yn awr, oherwydd byddwn yn welcome other Members’ contributions. croesawu cyfraniadau gan Aelodau eraill. Some 50 per cent of single parents live below Mae tua 50 y cant o rieni sengl yn byw o dan the poverty line, and it is clear that regular y ffin tlodi, ac mae’n amlwg y gall taliadau and effective child maintenance payments cynnal plant rheolaidd ac effeithiol helpu, os can help, if not lift them out of poverty, at nad eu codi allan o dlodi, o leiaf eu cael yn least get them closer to that line. It is agosach at y ffin hwnnw. Mae’n rhywbeth yr something that I feel very strongly about. It is wyf yn teimlo’n gryf iawn amdano. Mae’n really important that those people who do not bwysig iawn fod y bobl hynny nad oes have a voice and who cannot put these points ganddynt lais ac nad ydynt yn gallu cyfleu’r across in the same way are heard in a debate pwyntiau hyn yn yr un ffordd yn cael eu such as this. clywed mewn dadl fel hon.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Before we Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Cyn inni barhau, progress, it might help the new Members if I efallai y byddai o gymorth i’r Aelodau remind everyone of the convention with the newydd pe bawn yn atgoffa pawb am y short debate, which is that, whoever has the confensiwn gyda’r ddadl fer, sef bod pwy short debate, can concede some of their time, bynnag sydd â’r ddadl fer yn gallu rhoi which is usually given in one-minute slots. rhywfaint o’u hamser, sy’n cael eu rhoi fel Those Members must be succinct. Those arfer fesul munud. Mae’n rhaid i’r Aelodau Members who wish to make a succinct hynny fod yn gryno. Dylai’r Aelodau hynny contribution should go directly to the sy’n dymuno gwneud cyfraniad cryno fynd at Member with the short debate and ask his or yr Aelod â’r ddadl fer yn uniongyrchol i ofyn her permission. So, for the future, that is how am eu caniatâd. Felly, ar gyfer y dyfodol, it is done. However, on this occasion, Ken dyna sut y caiff ei wneud. Fodd bynnag, y tro Skates, Jenny Rathbone and Angela Burns hwn, mae Ken Skates, Jenny Rathbone ac have attracted my eye. You have a minute Angela Burns wedi dal fy llygad. Mae each. gennych funud yr un.
Kenneth Skates: I am delighted that you Kenneth Skates: Rwyf yn falch iawn eich have brought this matter to the Assembly. bod wedi dod â’r mater hwn ger bron y Although it is not devolved, it affects a huge Cynulliad. Er nad yw wedi cael ei ddatganoli, number of people. Like you, I have spent mae’n effeithio ar nifer fawr iawn o bobl. Fel many years working for an MP, and the chi, rwyf innau wedi treulio sawl blwyddyn amount of casework generated on the CSA is yn gweithio i AS, ac mae’r swm o waith appalling. The CSA was born from a dreadful achos a gynhyrchir ar yr asiantaeth yn piece of legislation and rushed through frawychus. Cafodd yr asiantaeth ei chreu yn Parliament at the time, without being sgil darn ofnadwy o ddeddfwriaeth a gafodd properly scrutinised. I really fear that the ei rhuthro drwy’r Senedd ar y pryd, heb same is happening again. The story you graffu priodol arni. Rwyf wir yn poeni bod yr referred to hit the nail on the head. un peth yn digwydd eto. Gwnaeth y stori y cyfeiriasoch ati daro’r hoelen ar ei phen.
6.30 p.m.
Far too often, the CSA chooses to go after Yn rhy aml o lawer, mae’r asiantaeth yn parents without care who were pretty dewis mynd ar ôl rhieni heb ofal a oedd yn responsible, and did pay, but, as you are eithaf cyfrifol, ac a dalodd, ond fel y probably aware from your casework, many of gwyddoch mae’n debyg o’ch gwaith achos,
158 21/09/2011 them ended up suffering as a consequence. gwnaeth nifer ohonynt ddioddef o ganlyniad. They suffered because the CSA chose not to Gwnaeth nifer ohonynt ddioddef oherwydd go after the real culprits—the people whom it dewisodd yr asiantaeth beidio â mynd ar ôl y was designed to go after. This £100 up-front rhai a oedd yn gyfrifol go iawn—y bobl y charge would impact on Wales cafodd ei ddylunio i fynd ar ei hôl. Byddai’r disproportionately, because the maintenance tâl o £100 i’w dalu ymlaen llaw yn cael gathered in Wales is just two thirds of the effaith anghymesur ar Gymru, gan mai dwy national average. As Barnardo’s and ran o dair o’r cyfartaledd cenedlaethol yw’r Gingerbread have said, this charge would hit gynhaliaeth a gesglir yng Nghymru. Fel y the poorest hardest, and I believe that it dywedodd Barnardo’s a Gingerbread, would send a lot of families away from the byddai’r tâl hwn yn taro’r bobl dlotaf fwyaf, CSA. a chredaf y byddai’n arwain llawer o deuluoedd i beidio â defnyddio’r asiantaeth.
Jenny Rathbone: Thank you, Antoinette, for Jenny Rathbone: Diolch, Antoinette, am introducing this important subject. I agree gyflwyno’r pwnc pwysig hwn. Rwy’n cytuno that it was not the Labour Government’s nad dyna oedd camp fwyaf y Llywodraeth finest achievement, but I feel that the current Lafur, ond teimlaf fod y Llywodraeth Government is compounding the problem by bresennol yn gwneud y broblem yn waeth trying to impose a fee on people who will drwy geisio codi ffi ar bobl na fydd yn gallu absolutely not be able to pay it. As the fforddio ei thalu o gwbl. Fel y dywed arolwg Gingerbread survey says, at least half the Gingerbread, ni fydd o leiaf hanner y bobl y people who need this service will not be able mae arnynt angen y gwasanaeth hwn yn gallu to pay the fee, because they are struggling on talu’r ffi, gan eu bod yn cael trafferth ymdopi the breadline anyway. If it were not for child â thlodi fodd bynnag. Oni bai am fudd-dal benefit, some of them would not have plant, byddai gan rai ohonynt ddim byd o anything at all. I urge you to speak to your gwbl. Rwy’n eich annog i siarad ag party leader and the UK Minister for Welfare arweinydd eich plaid a Gweinidog y DU dros Reform, because they will take a lot more Ddiwygio Lles, achos fe wnânt gymryd notice of you than they will of any of us. I llawer mwy o sylw ohonoch chi nag unrhyw hope that you will have the time to go to your un ohonom ni. Gobeithio y cewch amser i party conference and collar him. fynd i gynhadledd eich plaid i’w gornelu.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: That is just Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Dyna fel y mae ei how it is done—a one-minute contribution, gwneud hi—cyfraniad o funud, Jenny. Jenny.
Angela Burns: Thank you for bringing Angela Burns: Diolch am ddod â’r ddadl forward this debate, Antoinette. I know that hon ger bron, Antoinette. Gwn y bydd the Westminster Government will listen to Llywodraeth San Steffan yn gwrando arnoch you, Deputy Minister, because you are a chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog, gan eich bod yn un Welsh Minister and it respects your office. It o Weinidogion Cymru ac y mae’n parchu would be worth you making the point that an eich swydd. Byddai’n werth i chi wneud y awful lot of the administrative staff within pwynt nad yw llawer iawn o staff gweinyddol the CSA do not have really good training in o fewn yr asiantaeth yn cael hyfforddiant da financial management or in thinking outside iawn o ran rheoli ariannol neu o ran meddwl of the box. I have dealt with a number of y tu hwnt i ffiniau penodol. Rwyf wedi cases where the person who is trying to get ymdrin â nifer o achosion lle mae’r sawl sy’n away with not paying is being deliberately ceisio osgoi peidio â thalu yn bod yn fwriadol deceitful, setting up shadow companies and dwyllodrus, gan sefydlu cwmnïau ffug ac yn so on. The CSA needs to employ some good y blaen. Mae angen i’r asiantaeth gyflogi cŵn tracker dogs, people with financial olrhain go dda, pobl gyda phrofiad ariannol experience who understand how such things sy’n deall sut mae’r pethau yma yn gweithio, work, as it is mainly staffed by administrators gan mai gweinyddwyr yw ei staff yn bennaf who simply bat letters back and forth and sydd yn pasio llythyrau rhwng y naill a’r llall
159 21/09/2011 nothing gets resolved. A representation from heb ddim yn cael ei ddatrys. Byddai you about how we can improve the CSA sylwadau gennych chi am sut y gallwn would be of great benefit to all of us. wella’r asiantaeth o fudd mawr i bob un ohonom.
The Deputy Minister for Children and Y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Social Services (Gwenda Thomas): I am Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Gwenda somewhat surprised that we are debating this Thomas): Rwyf yn synnu braidd ein bod yn non-devolved matter today, but, on the other trafod y mater hwn heddiw gan na chafodd ei hand, it is useful to discuss the implications ddatganoli, ond, wedi dweud hynny, mae’n of the proposals for Wales. I do not disagree ddefnyddiol trafod goblygiadau’r cynigion i with anything that has been said in the Gymru. Nid wyf yn anghytuno ag unrhyw Chamber. It is clear from the proposals in the beth a ddywedwyd yn y Siambr. Mae’n Green Paper on the future of child amlwg o’r cynigion yn y Papur Gwyrdd ar maintenance that the UK Government is once ddyfodol cynhaliaeth plant bod Llywodraeth again threatening to hit the most vulnerable y DU unwaith eto yn bygwth taro’r teuluoedd families, and it will be this Welsh mwyaf diamddiffyn, a’r Llywodraeth Government that helps those families, Gymreig hon fydd yn helpu’r teuluoedd particularly the poor ones. hynny, yn enwedig y rhai tlawd.
Antoinette referred to Gingerbread. With Cyfeiriodd Antoinette at Gingerbread. Barnardo’s, it recently published a survey Ynghyd â Barnardo’s, cyhoeddodd arolwg yn suggesting that almost half of single parents ddiweddar a awgrymai na allai bron i hanner using the CSA could not afford to pay the y rhieni sengl sy’n defnyddio’r asiantaeth proposed fee to access the new child fforddio talu’r ffi arfaethedig i ddefnyddio’r maintenance service. Quite how that proposal gwasanaeth cynnal plant newydd. Ni wn yn is meant to help families at one of the most iawn sut mae disgwyl i’r cynnig hwnnw distressing times of their lives I do not know. helpu teuluoedd ar un o’r adegau mwyaf According to Gingerbread—and I am perhaps cythryblus yn eu bywyd. Yn ôl more inclined to believe its figures than the Gingerbread—ac efallai fy mod i’n fwy Treasury’s—it could mean 300,000 single tueddol o gredu ei ffigurau ef na rhai’r parents throughout the UK going without Trysorlys—gallai olygu bod 300,000 o rieni child maintenance. We are working hard to sengl ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig yn gorfod turn the tide and lift families out of child byw heb gynhaliaeth plant. Rydym yn poverty. That is made enormously more gweithio’n galed i droi’r llanw a chodi difficult when the UK Government is teuluoedd allan o dlodi plant. Gwneir hynny planning to push even more families below yn sylweddol anoddach pan fo Llywodraeth y the breadline. When the UK Government DU yn bwriadu gwthio mwy byth o announces plans that remove support services deuluoedd i dlodi. Pan fo Llywodraeth y DU from families, then it is we in Wales who yn cyhoeddi cynlluniau i dynnu pick up the cost. I am not opposed to gwasanaethau cymorth oddi ar deuluoedd, encouraging parents to take more yna ni yng Nghymru sy’n talu’r gost. Nid oes responsibility for their family circumstances, gennyf wrthwynebiad i annog rhieni i but time and again we see these reforms gymryd mwy o gyfrifoldeb dros eu creating more barriers for those in most need. hamgylchiadau teuluol, ond dro ar ôl tro fe The reforms are unrealistic, are not based on welwn y diwygiadau hyn yn creu mwy o an understanding of how families in conflict rwystrau i’r rhai sydd mewn angen. Nid yw’r actually behave, and are typical of a diwygiadau yn realistig, nid ydynt yn Government that either does not understand, seiliedig ar sut y mae teuluoedd mewn or simply does not care, about real children, gwrthdaro yn ymddwyn mewn gwirionedd, real parents and real lives. In contrast, in ac maent yn nodweddiadol o Lywodraeth Wales—and I do not say this just on the basis sydd unai ddim yn deall, neu ddim yn poeni of party politics—we are committed to am blant go iawn, rhieni go iawn a bywydau supporting parents and to not creating go iawn. Mewn cyferbyniad, yng Nghymru— situations that generate even harsher ac nid wyf yn dweud hyn ar sail
160 21/09/2011 conditions for the most vulnerable families. gwleidyddiaeth bleidiol yn unig—rydym Support for these families is a priority for our wedi ymrwymo i gefnogi rhieni a pheidio â Government; we have a consensus on that chreu sefyllfaoedd sy’n creu amodau gwaeth here, and we are doing all that we can to fyth i’r teuluoedd mwyaf diamddiffyn. Mae tackle the difficulties that families living in rhoi cymorth i’r teuluoedd hyn yn poverty face. We are doing this through our flaenoriaeth i’n Llywodraeth: mae gennym flagship programmes, which take a whole- gonsensws ar hyn yma, ac rydym yn gwneud family approach. These include Flying Start, popeth o fewn ein gallu i fynd i’r afael â’r Families First and the integrated family anawsterau y mae teuluoedd sy’n byw mewn support service. Taken together, these will tlodi yn eu hwynebu. Rydym yn gwneud hyn provide a seamless support service for drwy ein prif raglenni, sy’n edrych ar y teulu families. Families will then be in a stronger cyfan. Mae’r rhain yn cynnwys Dechrau’n position to take more responsibility for Deg, Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf a’r gwasanaeth themselves and their futures. cymorth teulu integredig. Gyda’i gilydd, bydd y rhain yn darparu gwasanaeth cymorth di-dor i deuluoedd. Bydd teuluoedd wedyn mewn sefyllfa gryfach i ysgwyddo mwy o gyfrifoldeb drostynt eu hunain a’u dyfodol.
Rather than charging vulnerable families for Yn hytrach na chodi tâl ar deuluoedd services over the next five years, we will diamddiffyn am wasanaethau dros y pum double the reach of our Flying Start mlynedd nesaf, byddwn yn dyblu programme. Flying Start will continue to cyrhaeddiad ein rhaglen Dechrau’n Deg. provide support for families by recognising Bydd Dechrau’n Deg yn dal ati i roi cymorth and responding to the needs of mothers and i deuluoedd drwy gydnabod ac ymateb i fathers in their parenting duties. anghenion mamau a thadau yn eu dyletswyddau rhianta.
I am also tackling appropriate family support Rwyf hefyd yn mynd i’r afael â chymorth through the family justice review, which we priodol i’r teulu drwy’r adolygiad cyfiawnder co-commissioned as a Government with the teulu, y gwnaethom ei gomisiynu ar y cyd fel Westminster Government. It aims to improve Llywodraeth gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan. the effectiveness and efficiency of the current Ei fwriad yw gwella effeithiolrwydd ac family justice system. Within this, and this is effeithlonrwydd y system gyfiawnder teulu a point that Antoinette made in her speech, bresennol. O fewn hyn, a dyma bwynt a there is an opportunity to encourage reform wnaeth Antoinette yn ei haraith, mae cyfle i by refocusing services on early advice and annog diwygio drwy ailffocysu gwasanaethau mediation and reducing the adversarial nature ar roi cyngor cynnar a chyfryngu a lleihau’r of proceedings. That could, and probably elfen o wrthdaro. Gallai hynny fod yr ateb would, be the best solution for many children gorau i lawer o blant a theuluoedd, ac mae’n and families. debyg y byddai.
I expect the final report this autumn, at which Rwyf yn disgwyl adroddiad terfynol yn yr point we will determine our response to the hydref, pan fyddaf yn penderfynu beth fydd final recommendations. I will do that with the ein hymateb i’r argymhellion terfynol. Gwnaf proposals for the reform of the child hynny gan gadw’r cynigion i ddiwygio’r maintenance system in mind. I am confident system cynnal plant mewn cof. Rwy’n that we are using all routes to target support hyderus ein bod yn defnyddio pob ffordd i to our most disadvantaged families during dargedu cymorth tuag at ein teuluoedd difficult times that are often not of their own mwyaf difreintiedig yn ystod amseroedd making and during which they need help, not anodd nad ydynt yn aml o’u gwneuthuriad eu obstacles placed in their paths. hunain a phryd y mae arnynt angen help, nid rhwystrau yn eu ffordd.
However, for every step we take forward in Fodd bynnag, am bob cam ymlaen yr ydym
161 21/09/2011 relation to our commitment to eradicate child yn ei gymryd o ran ein hymrwymiad i ddileu poverty by 2020, the announcements from tlodi plant erbyn 2020, mae gan the UK Government have the potential to gyhoeddiadau gan Lywodraeth y DU y knock us back three steps. I have also written potensial i fynd â ni dri cham yn ôl. Rwyf to Maria Miller MP, the UK Minister with hefyd wedi ysgrifennu at Maria Miller AS, un responsibility for families, to ask her to set o Weinidogion y DU, sydd â chyfrifoldeb am out the implications of the proposed reforms deuluoedd, i ofyn iddi amlinellu for Wales. goblygiadau’r diwygiadau arfaethedig i Gymru.
Mark Isherwood: I have a specific point Mark Isherwood: Mae gennyf bwynt based both on my casework and my penodol yn seiliedig ar fy ngwaith achos a’m experience as a grandfather. What position profiad fel taid. Pa safbwynt a ddylid ei should be taken and what influence could you gymryd a pha ddylanwad allech chi ei gael ar bring to bear in a situation where the partner sefyllfa lle mae partner a ddylai fod yn talu who should be paying is not, even though ddim yn gwneud hynny, er eu bod yn gallu, they are able to do so, or who, when the CSA neu sydd, pan mae’r asiantaeth yn dal i fyny â catches up with them, deliberately move, hwy, yn symud yn fwriadol, newid swyddi change jobs or even make themselves neu wneud eu hunain yn ddi-waith? Onid redundant? Do you not feel that there should ydych yn teimlo y dylai bod pwerau gorfodi be stronger enforcement powers in such cryfach mewn amgylchiadau o’r fath i atal circumstances to prevent parents in that rhieni yn y sefyllfa honno rhag dianc o situation from escaping the leash? grafangau’r gyfraith?
Gwenda Thomas: I certainly agree, and I Gwenda Thomas: Yn bendant, ac rwyf wedi have already said that I am not against dweud yn barod nad wyf yn erbyn annog encouraging people to take responsibility for pobl i gymryd cyfrifoldeb am eu their own circumstances. Where people are hamgylchiadau eu hunain. Lle mae pobl yn able to contribute, they certainly should. As gallu cyfrannu, dylent wneud hynny yn Antoinette said, it is usually a woman seeking bendant. Fel dywedodd Antoinette, menyw child support, although not always. We have sydd fel arfer yn chwilio am gynhaliaeth participated in the review of the family plentyn, ond nid bob amser. Rydym wedi justice system and all the considerations that cymryd rhan mewn adolygiad o’r system have gone on by nominating the children’s cyfiawnder teulu a’r holl ystyriaethau a commissioner to be a representative for gymerodd le drwy enwebu’r comisiynydd Wales in that review. We have seen the plant i fod yn gynrychiolydd dros Gymru yn interim report and will have the final report yr adolygiad hwnnw. Rydym wedi gweld yr by the autumn. I hope that it will deal some adroddiad dros dro a bydd gennym yr of these issues. adroddiad terfynol erbyn yr hydref. Rwy’n gobeithio y bydd yn ymdrin â rhai o’r materion hyn.
With regard to the CSA, it will remain non- O ran yr asiantaeth, bydd yn parhau heb ei devolved, and we can but seek to influence datganoli, a dim ond ceisio dylanwadu ar y the process. However, I am genuinely broses y gallwn ei wneud. Fodd bynnag, rwyf concerned about the introduction of charges, wir yn bryderus am gyflwyno’r ffioedd hyn, and I understand that charges could be ac rwy’n deall y gallai ffioedd gael eu introduced for the application in the first cyflwyno am wneud y cais yn y lle cyntaf, a place, which would, in the main, be made by fyddai’n cael ei wneud yn bennaf gan women, although not always. There would be fenywod, er nid bob amser. Byddai tâl arall another charge for enforcement, and another am orfodi, a thâl arall am gasglu. Dyna yw’r charge for collection. That is my cynigion yn ôl yr hyn rwy’n ei ddeall, ac mae understanding of the proposals, and I do have gennyf bryderon amdanynt. Rwyf wedi concerns about them. I have written to Maria ysgrifennu at Maria Miller, fel y dywedais, a Miller, as I have said, and asked her to set out gofyn iddi amlinellu goblygiadau y
162 21/09/2011 the implications of the proposed reforms for diwygiadau arfaethedig i Gymru, yn arbennig Wales, particularly how the proposals have pa asesiad a wnaed o’u heffaith a faint y been impact-assessed and costed for Wales. I byddai’r cynigion yn ei gostio i Gymru. am still waiting for a response on those Rwyf dal yn aros am ateb i’r pwyntiau points, so I hope that I will not be forced to hynny, felly rwy’n gobeithio na chaf fy assume that she either does not know or is ngorfodi i gymryd nad yw hi naill ai yn not prepared to say what those consequences gwybod neu’n amharod i ddweud beth would be. However, we need to know in fyddai’r goblygiadau hynny. Fodd bynnag, Wales, and I need a response to my mae angen i ni wybod yng Nghymru, ac rwyf correspondence. angen ateb yn fy ngohebiaeth.
I also propose to discuss the consequences Rwyf hefyd yn bwriadu trafod y goblygiadau for Wales with my ministerial colleagues as i Gymru gyda’m cyd-Weinidogion fel rhan o part of wider discussions on welfare reform. drafodaethau ehangach ar ddiwygio lles. These wider welfare reforms will have Bydd gan y diwygiadau lles ehangach hyn significant implications for families in Wales oblygiadau sylweddol i Gymru a diwygio’r and the CSA reform. CSA reform should not asiantaeth. Ni ddylid edrych ar ddiwygio’r be looked at in isolation from those changes. asiantaeth ar wahân i’r newidiadau hynny. The point has been made about the system Gwnaed y pwynt am y system o fewn yr within the CSA, and that will remain a non- asiantaeth, a bydd hynny’n parhau i fod yn devolved matter. We can but raise a voice on fater heb ei ddatganoli. Dim ond codi llais y these issues, which we know are affecting gallwn ei wneud ar y materion hyn, y vulnerable people in Wales. gwyddom eu bod yn effeithio ar bobl ddiamddiffyn yng Nghymru.
If it serves no other purpose, this debate helps Os nad yw’n gwneud unrhyw beth arall, to demonstrate, once again, that the UK mae’r ddadl hon yn help i ddangos, drachefn, Government is not appearing to be family nad yw’n ymddangos bod Llywodraeth y DU friendly with these proposals and, at worst, yn gyfeillgar i deuluoedd gyda’r cynigion could seem to be uninterested in the plight of hyn, ac, ar ei waethaf, yn edrych nad oes vulnerable people. We can reflect on what ganddi ddiddordeb yn hynt pobl has been said in the Chamber across the ddiamddiffyn. Gallwn adlewyrchu ar yr hyn a parties, see whether we can get adequate ddywedwyd yn y Siambr ar draws y pleidiau, responses to correspondence with i weld a gawn ni atebion digonol i ohebiaeth Westminster and consider together the final gyda San Steffan ac ystyried gyda’n gilydd report of the family justice review. adroddiad terfynol yr adolygiad cyfiawnder teulu.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: That brings Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Daw hynny â today’s proceedings to a close. thrafodion heddiw i ben.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 6.41 p.m. The meeting ended at 6.41 p.m.
Aelodau a’u Pleidiau Members and their Parties
Andrews, Leighton (Llafur – Labour) Antoniw, Mick (Llafur – Labour) Asghar, Mohammad (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Black, Peter (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Burns, Angela (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Butler, Rosemary (Llafur – Labour) Chapman, Christine (Llafur – Labour) Cuthbert, Jeff (Llafur – Labour) Davies, Alun (Llafur – Labour) Davies, Andrew R.T. (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
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Davies, Byron (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Davies, Jocelyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Davies, Keith (Llafur – Labour) Davies, Paul (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Davies, Suzy (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Drakeford, Mark (Llafur – Labour) Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Evans, Rebecca (Llafur – Labour) Finch-Saunders, Janet (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) George, Russell (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Gething, Vaughan (Llafur – Labour) Graham, William (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Gregory, Janice (Llafur – Labour) Griffiths, John (Llafur – Labour) Griffiths, Lesley (Llafur – Labour) Gruffydd, Llyr Huws (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Hart, Edwina (Llafur – Labour) Hedges, Mike (Llafur – Labour) Hutt, Jane (Llafur – Labour) Isherwood, Mark (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) James, Julie (Llafur – Labour) Jenkins, Bethan (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Jones, Alun Ffred (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Jones, Ann (Llafur – Labour) Jones, Carwyn (Llafur – Labour) Jones, Elin (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Lewis, Huw (Llafur – Labour) Melding, David (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Mewies, Sandy (Llafur – Labour) Millar, Darren (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Morgan, Julie (Llafur – Labour) Neagle, Lynne (Llafur – Labour) Parrott, Eluned (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Powell, William (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Price, Gwyn R. (Llafur – Labour) Ramsay, Nick (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Rathbone, Jenny (Llafur – Labour) Rees, David (Llafur – Labour) Roberts, Aled (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Sandbach, Antoinette (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives) Sargeant, Carl (Llafur – Labour) Skates, Kenneth (Llafur – Labour) Thomas, Gwenda (Llafur – Labour) Thomas, Rhodri Glyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Thomas, Simon (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Watson, Joyce (Llafur – Labour) Whittle, Lindsay (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales) Williams, Kirsty (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats) Wood, Leanne (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
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