an interview with Professor Langland by Bruno Renero-Hannan

Dr. Victoria Langland—historian of Latin America and social movements expert—talks about Latin America, women in revolution, breastfeeding rights in Brazil, as well as the importance of history in the Trump era, and more, in this interview with a former GSI.

LACS Course Spotlight for WInter 2017 Who is Dr. Victoria Langland? And low cost way, and they've been how did you come to teach this modeling this technology and this class on revolutionary movements process to other places around in Latin America? the world. So the book asks what these transformations have meant I'm a historian of 20th century for various groups of women, for Latin America with a focus on infants, for society more generally, Brazil, and I wrote a book about and what these changes reveal student activists under the Brazilian about different understandings military dictatorship (from 1964 about race, gender, women's to 1985). So I was interested in bodies, collective health, the role social movements and the ties of transnational infant formula between student movements marketing, and so forth. There’s and revolutionary movements a lot in there that I think is really in Brazil—although the Brazilian important, especially as we grapple student movements and the with the current situation in the revolutionary movements were not U.S. where the fact that we have Speaking of Flowers: Student Movements and the same thing. They don't stand in no legally guaranteed parental the Making and Remembering of 1968 in Military for each other; but there are some leave means that breastfeeding Brazil (Duke University Press 2013). connections there, and some of the Speaking of Flowers is an innovative study is effectively impossible for most of student activism during Brazil’s military counter-revolutionary repression families, with truly negative dictatorship (1964–85) and an examination that impacted the armed left also consequences for maternal and of the very notion of student activism, which impacted university students. changed dramatically in response to the student infant health. protests of 1968. Looking into what made So I don't study revolutionary students engage in national political affairs as movements per se [for my book], Are you thinking of integrating this students, rather than through other means, new research into a future class? Victoria Langland traces a gradual, uneven shift in but they were important within how they constructed, defended, and redefined that project. Yes, I have a class I've been developing their right to political participation, from emphasizing class, race, and gender privileges And my current research seems very with a PhD candidate in History to organizing around other institutional and different! I’m currently researching and Women’s Studies, Diana Sierra, symbolic forms of political authority. although it's not on the books for next the history of breastfeeding in year, but hopefully the subsequent Brazil, basically from the early 20th year. [It’s] a class about motherhood, century to the present. [There] maternalism and maternal and infant I'm really looking at changing health in Latin America. understandings, beliefs, practices and policies around breastfeeding. Let’s get back to revolution. What And one of my overarching is the “Revolutionary Movements” questions is: How did breastfeeding class about? And in what ways do change from being seen as a kind of you think this subject is relevant menial, undervalued labor that elite to the lives of Michigan students in women would push off onto more 2017? vulnerable female populations, Content-wise, the class really is to being something that is now a way of exploring the history of celebrated by many as an essential, Latin America in the 20th century almost sacred part of one’s through the lens of revolutionary experience of motherhood? At the movements. One of the ways I see same time, how do we account 20th century Latin American history for the important development of is as [a series of] struggles against Memorias de la Represión Vol. 5: Monumentos, human milk banking in Brazil? For inequality, as that [inequality] has memoriales y marcas territoriales (Madrid: Siglo today Brazil is a leading innovator XXI Editores 2003). been a persistent structural feature in human breastmilk banking—in The fifth volume in a series of publications resulting of Latin American society. But it from the SSRC program on Collective Memory of collecting donated breast milk, has also been one that people Repression. The entire multi-volume series consists pasteurizing it, and distributing have been finding inventive and of work produced by program fellows and faculty it, free of charge, to infants who and has been released simultaneously in Madrid and creative ways to push against, Buenos Aires and distributed throughout the world. need it. They do this in a very throughout the full 20th and 21st century. Not all of those efforts are revolutionary—so we're not Content-wise, the class [Revolutionary Movements in looking at all ways that people Latin America] really is a way of exploring the history have pushed to create social justice in Latin America: we're focusing of Latin America in the 20th century through the lens exclusively on revolutionary of revolutionary movements. movements. I also don't mean to characterize revolution as the only way that people seek social create? In some cases, yes; in some who have been committed to justice, but nonetheless there are cases, no, in very different ways. this and who have undertaken a a series of really significant and We look at women protagonists, variety of different means for doing quite fascinating revolutionary what roles they played in what this. So even though the theme is movements that occurred in they did, and how those (roles) got revolutionary movements, these Latin America over the twentieth understood and recognized, or not. revolutionary movements are very century. So this course begins with different—and they evolve; they And we look at the way that the Mexican Revolution [1910-]— learn from each other; they try revolution is often mythologized and it goes up to the present and things that worked in one place, and celebrated in very gendered asks: What are some of the social and try not to replicate things terms, from the hyper-masculinity movements taking place today? And that didn’t work so well in another of Ché Guevara to the ways in in what ways might we consider place. And, you know, there’s not which the front-and-center some of them revolutionary? And it one kind of model that just gets participation of women in the looks at everything in between. So enacted again and again and again Sandinista revolutionary movement that's one part of the course. in different sites. These are, in fact, becomes part of the way Nicaragua diverse and dialogical, right? They Then the other part of the course, is understood. So that’s kind of one move off of one another. So that alongside that, is that we look at place [we’re] seeing all that working would be one piece of it. how historians approach this study together. of revolutionary movements. We're Another piece is that to be a Since [2014, when] you GSI’ed with often thinking about how you globalized citizen, to understand me, I’ve made gender more and think about the past, so students our hemisphere, and to understand more central—because I care about are reading primary sources and our world, we need a better it. So I keep finding ways to make thinking about what we learn understanding of various regions of this part of every conversation. And about them—and they write about the world, including Latin America. now my students are like, “You can’t primary sources. We're talking And revolution is one of the tropes think of revolution without thinking about how revolutions have been and the caricatures through which about gender!” Because I sort of defined and re-defined over time, Latin America is often understood insert it—some questioning of it—in and how they're been represented. and misunderstood by US all of our lectures in some way. So So we look a lot at film and at Americans. Or it’s often presented I’m very happy with that. art and at other media that have in a kind of simplistic way that created an iconography of tropes, Could you say more about there is one kind of revolutionary and sometimes caricatures, of the ways in which this topic— model, all Latin Americans—or all revolution, that get re-written and revolutionary movements in Latin of Latin American history, is kind of used in a variety of ways. America—can be relevant to the brushed with this simple brush of, lives of your students? “Oh, they all have a revolutionary To give you an example of how we background or past,” and that’s not treat all of this together, one of the I think anyone who is interested really understood, what that meant themes that threads through the in social justice is interested in for each context. So I think it gives class is the question of gender— the various efforts that people on people a better understanding of and looking at, what were some this planet have taken to create what’s at stake in Latin America and of the aspirations of revolutionary some kind of social justice—how what people have done. societies? To what extent were they’ve defined it, what they think changing gender relationships is just and for whom, the steps Thinking of the Trump era, do you on their radar? Was that part of that they’ve taken to try to reach see new significance or urgency the new utopian societies that that. So there’s a lot that we can in the study of history and radical politics? revolutionaries were trying to learn just by exploring those actors I do think that all history courses primary sources as they ask how Since Trump’s election, I feel like are incredibly useful in the Trump and why things happened in the that’s our mission, as historians: to era, as they get us to evaluate how past, lets students become able to get [students] to think that there’s we know what we know. One of the validate one interpretation over not one truth—but nonetheless, things that historians do is we put another based on the merits of the truth is not random, that not all together varieties of documentary work, and not just the credentials interpretations are equally valid. and other forms of evidence—what or presumed biases of the author. To do this, you need to be able to Right, as you say, two historians we call primary sources—to try to can look at the same sources really think about their evidence. think about, what can we learn and come up with very different from each primary source? We think So I feel like all history courses interpretations—but that does not very clearly about who wrote it, are really useful in the Trump era, mean that the two interpretations and in what context, and for what as we think about, “how do we are equivalent. audience. What’s the impact of this? know what we think we know?” Exactly; or that they’re just What do we learn by the existence Or why do we believe one person’s of this document? completely ideologically driven: perspective over another? Is it That one person just wrote So in a moment in which because it aligns with ours or is whatever they wanted and claimed we’re questioning truth— it because the material on which to base it on a particular source; we’re questioning news, we’re they’re basing it corresponds and another person wrote the questioning what is false and with the argument that they’re opposite of that and claimed to what is true—I think getting back making? Because we see that two base it on the exact same source. to basics [is really valuable]: How historians can take the exact same And that they both use sources do you know what you think you set of primary sources and come to simply to confirm their ideas rather know? Why do historians interpret different kinds of conclusions from to really try to come to terms with the past this way? Showing them. So part of what our students the past. students how to read and interpret are doing is trying to evaluate: why primary sources, and getting them would they believe this perspective What kinds of students have you found generally take this class? see how historians use a variety of over another? Or what is compelling about this perspective over And what students—perhaps even another? unlikely candidates—would you most recommend it to? So that’s one thing, and then I feel like, certainly since Trump The students [in the class] come was elected, parallels come up in from a diversity of interests and conversation all the time about backgrounds. There are certainly leaders: What does leadership those who are interested in mean? Where does change revolution as a topic, who have come from? You know, in all of taken courses on the Russian the revolutionary cases, merely Revolution or the Chinese seizing executive power does not Revolution, and they’re interested a revolution make. So thinking in approaching this topic from about the various ways that people different geographic perspectives. have tried to effect changes that I certainly have one student this go beyond taking office has been year who is a Russian studies major, helpful, I think, for students coming who is making lots of really useful to terms with this period. commentary and comparisons about the Russian Revolution. There Blanca López, a Sandinista militia member, Lastly, I would also think that are (also) a number of students who breastfeeding her son (1984). The Nicaraguan when we talk about revolution, we are interested in Latin America in Revolution was marked by unprecedented mobilization of women. The image of this talk about counter-revolution—it’s particular, who have taken other nursing mother, with an AK-47 slung over her impossible not to talk about that. courses on Latin America and who shoulder, became iconic of the Nicaraguan So we’re often talking about real want to know more about the Revolution. It was widely reproduced by the international solidarity movement. Gender state power in various cases, and I region. and visual media are central elements of Prof. think that has been something that Langland’s “Revolutionary Movements” course; people are also making parallels I would say the majority of our her current research looks at the history of breastfeeding in Brazil. with today. students are interested in the History 202? kinds of students that you would world outside the US, but not in recommend it to? any specific question about Latin History 202 is the required course America or about revolution. for history majors. It’s called “Doing The only thing I would reiterate Rather, they might be International History,” and they take it typically is that sometimes I hear from Studies majors—or they might in their sophomore year. We discuss students that they were a little come from any other major—and why history matters, what it worried signing up, because they they want to learn about something means to “do” history, and we visit thought they needed to have a that’s not what they already several archives. Then they write particular background—however, know!—(laughs)—but that maybe a research paper based on primary the course doesn’t assume any isn’t so far afield, that this seems sources from one of those archives knowledge! I don’t assume that you approachable, something they’ve and present their findings in class. know anything about revolutions, heard about. I don’t assume you know anything It sounds fun; I would have enjoyed about Latin America, I don’t even that as an undergrad. They’re certainly familiar with the assume you know anything about idea of revolution and with the Yeah, it’s actually super fun! I history. proximity of Latin America and would’ve too—I would’ve enjoyed But what I would say is that it’s a the importance of Latin America that as a PhD student! to the United States, but they history course, and so there’s a lot don’t necessarily know anything Right! of reading. It appeals to people who about Latin America or Latin like to read. I can say a little bit But I didn’t have it in either case! American revolutions. And they’re about what they read, which might (Both laugh). curious. And those students, like be interesting, because I do try to I said, might have an interest in That’s so true. On the “Anthro- give them different genres: They International Studies, particularly— History” side of things, I sometimes read a history text [book], but they but they might not. Students feel embarrassed to admit my lack also read a memoir of a woman— can come from any part of the [of training] in history. Because you read this too, I think, you read university, who just say, “For part anthropologists, well, you [go and] Carmen Aguirre... figure it out, that ethnography is of my college education, I’d like to Yeah—what’s it called? Memories always a messy business in the learn about something outside of of a Revolutionary Daughter! the US, and this topic sounds really end—but everyone knows that interesting to me.” So those would it’s messy and personal. But with Yes! Memories of a Revolutionary historians and their archives, it’s be the major constituencies. Daughter, they read that. So they like, “They’ve already got it figured read some historical scholarship, We do get also some history out...” they read a lot of primary sources, majors, who maybe have taken a No! We’re always figuring that out they watch a film on their own, they class with me and wanted to take on the fly too! So don’t you worry, get to choose a film. Did we do that a second class, even though they’re we’re good! when you were there? not “Latin American-ists” per se. I currently have a few students who Any thoughts on perhaps I don’t think they chose one. unlikely students who might were in my History 202 section in What I do now is have them do take the class? Students who the past and it’s great to see them an assignment—and it’s a group in the classroom again. might not necessarily imagine themselves taking it? Or other assignment—where they pick

The students [in the class] come from a diversity of interests and backgrounds. There are certainly those who are interested in revolution as a topic, who have taken courses on the Russian Revolution or the Chinese Revolution, and they’re interested in approaching this topic from different geographic perspectives. I certainly have one student this year who is a Russian Studies major, who is making lots of really useful commentary and comparisons about the Russian Revolution. four or five of their [discussion] section mates, and they pick a fictionalized film that represents a Latin American revolution, from a long list that I have: one for the first half of the course, and one for the second half of the course. They just do it once, but one section does it in the first half, and one section does it in the second half. They pick a fictionalized film, they watch it, and then they give a class presentation, where they show us a clip and tell us a little bit about the film—and then they try to analyze, how is revolution being represented? How or what is Hollywood, or whichever film studio is putting this together, saying about revolution in Latin America? We have everything from Benicio del Toro’s Ché, to some of the great Tomás Gutiérrez Alea films in Cuba, and I have Machuca on the list. What we cover just depends on what they choose. I find it a great way for all of us to get kind of a little snapshot: We get about ten films, five in the first group and five in the second group—just quickly, little snippets— and see the diversity of ways, and sometimes the lack of diversity of ways (laughs) in which the silver screen represents revolution. And what that does, the work that that does. That sounds fun, too. Some of those are films I haven’t seen. Yeah, it’s really fun. They’re doing Photo of a woman revolutionary in Mexico, by the woman photographer Sara Castrejón it the following Monday, the Reza (1911). second group. They do a group presentation and then they also Gender is one of the central themes threading through Langland’s course on Latin American write an individual paper on the revolutionaries. As she puts it, “We look at same film. For both, they interpret women protagonists, what roles they played and how those roles [were] understood and a scene, so I ask them to pick one recognized, or not. Was changing gender scene that their group is going to relationships on their radar? Was that part of discuss, and then pick a different the new utopian societies that revolutionaries were trying to create?” scene for the individual paper. They also do a primary source paper. Those are their two writing assignments: the film and the primary source paper. You’ve answered this in some But, as the designer of the that, if you imagine revolutionary ways, but I wanted to ask you to syllabus—even if you don’t movements struggling to create a tell us about some of your favorite always know how it comes off in new society—in that new society, elements in the course. Perhaps sections—there might be a piece who do they think are cleaning there’s a particular activity or a set you really loved creating, you the toilets? [These] are racialized of readings you’re particularly fond know? questions as well as gendered of? Yeah, like I said, I like being able to questions: Who do they think is Right, well, I definitely do like the talk about gender within revolution running the military? Who do they film presentations. I like getting to cause I don’t think that it gets think is watching the children? see what they choose and what integrated usually. It’s usually seen Who do they think is patrolling the they had to say about it—I mean, like this separate category of, “Now cities? Are they imagining a society that sounds so empty, but it’s true! we’ll talk about women,” as this of equal sexual liberty for all? Are The problem for me to answer that separate discussion. they imagining a multiplicity of question—and you know this—is gendered identities, including [that in] lecture courses, you, as the Like a gender week, or day, or trans-gender? It’s like, is that on faculty, don’t get to see as much whatever? the table? Well, it’s not—okay, so what is on the table? What is it that about how students are responding. Or a gender week. So I try to make So I can say (in a contrived voice) they’re imagining? And what is the sure that that’s part of what we’re lived reality? “What I like to read...”—you know? always looking at. Cause one of I don’t always know how they the things that I emphasize is respond to all of it.

This photo was taken on March 5, 1960, in Havana, Cuba, at a memorial service march for victims of the La Coubre explosion. On the far left of the photo is Fidel Castro, while in the center is Che Guevara. Source: Museo Che Guevara (Centro de Estudios Che Guevara en La Habana, Cuba)/Wikimedia Commons.

Film and photography are another important aspect of the course. In one activity, groups of students watch a fictionalized film of their choice. “They give a class presentation, in which they show a clip form their chosen film, and they try to analyze it: How is revolution being represented? What is Hollywood, or any film studio, saying about revolution in Latin America? We have everything on the list, from Benicio del Toro’s Ché, to some of the great Tomás Gutiérrez Alea films in Cuba, and Machuca. We get about ten films—just quickly, little snippets—and we see the diversity of ways in which the silver screen represents revolution.” That’s been one of the things that I like—and I think my students know that I like it, cause I’m always Bruno Renero-Hannan is PhD candidate highlighting it! (laughs). in anthropology and history at the University of Michigan, where he has And I like seeing students work with taught courses in both disciplines. He primary sources. Again, maybe this is works in southern Mexico on social what “the professor’s view” is—that movements, political violence, and I get to see their voices more when prisons. His forthcoming dissertation they write their papers on primary is based on long-term research and sources, cause then I get to see which advocacy with political prisoners and sources really spoke to them and their communities in the Loxicha region what really intrigued them about of Oaxaca. His research interests include these different documents. So that’s revolutionary movements and radical more like—I like to see what they politics, political economy, popular liked. culture and religion, and questions of memory, narrative and place. I could also say that I like images a lot. And I think the study of revolution Bruno is currently program assistant at the Latin American and Caribbean lends itself to looking at [images]. Studies Center (LACS). He has also From the Mexican Revolution on, they served as a graduate student instructor (revolutions) are highly photographed (GSI) for “Revolutionary Movements in events. So that makes lectures Latin America,” alongside Prof. Victoria more interesting, as we have a lot of Langland. iconographic material to think about. But revolutions are also represented in culture, so we look at the muralist movement—you know, in visual culture they are highly represented. And I think the imagery is really rich... This might not necessarily be something for your course, but have you heard of this? [Retrieves a copy of the EZLN’s Critical Thought in the Produced by the Center for Latin American and Caribbean Studies at the Face of the Capitalist Hydra (2015), University of Michigan. Designed by Raquel Buckley/II Communications which includes an appendage of Editor for LACS, ASC, CMENAS, and CSEAS. artwork on glossy pages.] All rights reserved. No. For permission to reproduce, please contact Alana Rodriguez, LACS It’s great; it’s actually a collection of academic program specialist at [email protected]. pieces. I’ll check it out. I was just thinking about images, cause... Oh, wow! A member of the International Institute Zapatista imagery in 2015. 1080 South Univesity Avenue Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1106 Oh, that’s awesome, can I write down 734-763-0553 that title? ii.umich.edu/lacs Definitely.