First Session -Thirty-Seventh Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of

DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS

Official Report (Hansard)

Published under the authority of George Hickes Speaker

Vol. L No. 13- 1:30 p.m., Monday, December 13, 1999 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature

Member Constituency Political Affiliation

AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUA Y, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswoo d P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FILMON, Gary Tuxedo P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWA Y, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet P.C. N.D.P. REID, Daryl Transcona REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. N.D.P. SMITH, Scott Brandon West STEFANSON, Eric Kirkfield Park P.C. N.D.P. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCIIUK, Rosann, Bon. Swan River N.D.P. 485

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, December 13, 1999

The House met at 1:30 p.m. Agriculture (11) Messrs. Dewar, Dyck, Han. Mr. Lemieux, PRAYERS Messrs. Maguire, Nevakshonoff, Penner (Emerson), Penner (Steinbach), Schellenberg, ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Smith (Brandon West), Struthers, Han. Ms. Wowchuk PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Economic Development (11) Mrs. Dacquay, Messrs. Derkach, Dewar, Han. Hon. (Minister of Education Ms. Friesen, Mr. Jennissen, Han. Mr. Lemieux, and Training): Mr. Speaker, I would like to Mr. Loewen, Hon. Ms. Mihychuk, Hon. Mr. table the Annual Report of the Manitoba Robinson, Messrs. Schuler, Smith (Brandon Education and Research Learning Information West) Networks fo r the period 1998-1999.

Industrial Relations (11) Mr. Speaker: For the information of the Han. Mr. Ashton, Han. Ms. Barrett, Mr. Dewar, Minister of Education and Training, we are Ms. Korzeniowski, Messrs. Laurendeau, Loewen, presenting reports by standing and special Nevakshonoff, Pitura, Reid, Schuler, Smith committees. We will come to Ministerial State­ (Brandon West) ments and Tabling of Reports.

Special Committee of Seven Persons Law Amendments (11) Second Report Han. Mr. Ashton, Ms. Asper, Han. Mr. Chomiak, Mrs. Dacquay, Han. Mr. Mackintosh, Messrs. Hon. (Chairperson of the Penner (Emerson), Penner (Steinbach), Special Committee of Seven Persons): Mr. Rondeau, Schellenberg, Mrs. Smith (Fort Speaker, is there leave of the House to present Garry), Mr. Struthers the report of the Committee of Seven Persons?

Municipal Affairs (11) Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Aglugub, Han. Ms. Barrett, Ms. Cerilli, Mrs. Dacquay, Mrs. Driedger, Han. Ms. Friesen, Mr. Mr. Speaker: Agreed. Loewen, Han. Mr. Mackintosh, Messrs. Martindale, Penner (Emerson), Smith (Brandon Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, I would like to West) present the Second Report of the Committee of Seven Persons. Private Bills (11) Mr. Aglugub, Mrs. Dacquay, Mr. Jennissen, An Honourable Member: Dispense. Han. Messrs. Lath/in, Mackintosh, Messrs. Reimer, Rocan, Santos, Schellenberg, Mrs. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Smith (Fort Garry), Mr. Smith (Brandon West) Your Special Committee of Seven Persons, appointed to prepare a list of members of the Privileges and Elections (11) standing committees ordered by the House, Han. Messrs. Ashton, Caldwell, Ms. Ceri/li, Mrs. presents the following as its Second Report. Dacquay, Han. Mr. Mackintosh, Han. Ms. Mihychuk, Mrs. Mitchelson, Messrs. Penner Your committee prepared the following list of (Emerson), Rocan, Santos, Struthers members to compose the standing committees ordered by the House: Public Accounts (11) 486 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

Ms. Allan, Han. Mr. Gerrard, Messrs. Loewen, Manitoba, copies of which have been previously Ma/oway, Penner (Steinbach), Reid, Reimer, distributed. Rondeau, Han. Messrs. Sale. Selinger, Mr. Stefanson I would also like to table the 1998-99 Annual Report of Sport, copies of which have Public Utilities and Natural Resources (11) been previously distributed. Ms. Asper, Messrs. Derkach, Dyck, Jennissen, Han. Mr. Lath/in, Mr. Ma/oway, Han. Ms. Finally, I am pleased to table the Annual McGifford, Messrs. Penner (Emerson), Praznik, Report of the Health Information Services of Reid, Han. Mr. Selinger Manitoba Corporation fo r the year ended March 31, 1999. Rules of the House (12) Han. Mr. Ashton, Mrs. Dacquay, Mr. Dewar, Han. Mr. Gerrard, Ms. Korzeniowski, Mr. Hon. (Minister of Consumer Laurendeau, Han. Mr. Mackintosh, Messrs. and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I have Martindale, Nevakshono.ff, Praznik, Reid, Rocan the honour to report that no Orders-in-Councils have been made pursuant to Section 114 of The Statutory Regulations and Orders (11) Insurance Act, R.S.M. 1987. c. 140, since the Ms. Allan, Ms. Cerilli, Messrs. Cummings, last session of the Legislature. Dewar, Helwer, Korzeniowski. Han. Mr. Lemieux, Mr. Rocan, Han. Mr. Sale, Mr. Tweed, Introduction of Guests Han. Ms. Wowchuk Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I Mr. Mackintosh: I move, seconded by the direct the attention of honourable members to honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. the gallery where we have with us today from St. Laurendeau), that the report of the committee be Francois Xavier Community School fifteen received. Grade 5 students under the direction of Mrs. Motion agreed to. Betty-Ann Tiltman. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for * (1335) Morris (Mr. Pitura). TABLING OF REPORTS Also, from Daniel Macintyre School, Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education twenty-five Grade 11 students under the and Training): Mr. Speaker, I would like to direction of Mrs. Connie Baker. This school is table the Annual Report of the Manitoba located in the constituency of the honourable Education Research and Learning Information Minister fo r Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Networks for the period 1998-1999. Mihychuk).

Hon. (Minister of Health): With us from Landmark Collegiate are Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the 1998-99 twenty Grade 11 students under the direction of Annual Report for Manitoba Health which Mr. Greg Sawatzky. This school is located in includes the Annual Report of the Manitoba the constituency of the Honourable Minister of Health Services Insurance Plan, copies of which Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Lemieux). have been previously distributed. With us from Morden Collegiate are forty I would also like to table the 1998-99 Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Ron Annual Report for the Manitoba Health Peters. This school is located in the constituency Research Council, copies of which have been of the honourable member for Pembina (Mr. previously distributed. Dyck).

I would like to table the 1998-99 Annual On behalf of all honourable members, I Report for the Addictions Foundation of welcome you here today. December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 487

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD refers to the fact that after the election they met with all these different groups. He made Chemotherapy Treatment commitments about this issue during the Hours of Operation election, but this is seven weeks after they took office. November 22 he said effective immedi­ Mr. (Leader of the Official ately these beds would be open. We are Opposition): Mr. Speaker, last week in response infonned by Cancer Care Manitoba that that has to a number of questions by members on our not happened. So my question is: when will it side, the Minister of Health referred on happen? Is this just another one of these broken numerous occasions to his government's news promises? Effectively immediately, not seven release of November 22. He said it had the weeks from now, not four weeks from now, not answers to all of the questions that we might ask. after I have a chance to take a look. When is it So we took the time to just review it thoroughly going to happen? and on the second page it says: Effective immediately the number of chemotherapy treat­ Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, for a government ment hours offered per month by Cancer Care that did not live up to any of its 1995 election Manitoba's oncology day program will be promises and was involved in some of the doubled. biggest fiascos that have ever been seen in this province, not only SmartHealth which was a In calling-not that we did not trust his cover-up by members opposite, I find it very word-Cancer Care Manitoba, we find that this strange that the fonner Premier did not have an has not happened, and so I ask the minister to opportunity to question us on that. But with explain why these hours have not been extended, respect to that particular issue, I want to point as has been committed effective immediately in out to the member that we indicated we would the November 22 news release. get back with regard to the specifics of that particular issue. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for that I want to reiterate that, in our press release, question. As the member knows, after assuming we said that we would open and make the beds office,after only a number of weeks in office we available as of December 1. Members opposite met with all of the groups and organizations in were saying, well, we had hope for tomorrow. the community and said what can we do to deal We did provide hope to the people of Manitoba. with the terrible devastation that has been left to We said we would end hallway medicine. We us by the Conservatives in tenns of health care. are going to live up to our claim, and that will What we did was put together a package of items happen in this province. and a short-tenn plan that would deal with the horrible issue of hallways. And I might add, on Mr. Filmon: The member opposite, in his great this day last year there were 52 people in arrogance, completely refuses or is unable to 's hospital hallways, and today, answer the question. I am not talking about according to this morning's stats, we have only commitments in an election campaign, I am not nine. Fifty-two today's date last year, under that talking about promises of future action, I am particular government. talking about a statement in the November 22 news release that he waved around all last week. With respect to the specifics that were It says effective immediately. Did he know what outlined by the Leader of the Opposition, I will he was talking about when he made that take notice on that question and get back to him commitment? on that.

* (1340) Mr. Chomiak: As I indicated to the fonner Premier and the Leader of the Opposition, I will Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, the minister dodged take that question as notice and detennine the question, not terribly artfully 1 might say but specificallywhat the fonner Premier is referring he dodged the question, as he usually does. He to because the infonnation- 488 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. preparing the budget and consulting with Manitobans the best use of those surpluses with Point of Order regard to the existing policies for retained earnings in those agencies to ensure that they Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House maintain their healthy financial circumstances. Leader): On a point of order, the honourable minister has already stated he will take it under * (1345) advisement. I think that is enough. There is no postamble required. Mr. Rocan: A supplementary question to the same minister. Could this minister assure Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government Manitobans that any surpluses currently held by House Leader, on the same point of order. a government agency, such as Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation or the Workers Compen­ Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House sation Board, would be returned directly to the Leader): On the same point of order. Since it is ratepayers responsible fo r that surplus? their allegation now that while the matter has been taken under advisement there should be no Mr. Selinger: With respect to any surpluses or further answers, why are they continuing to pose potential surpluses that may exist, those sur­ questions? pluses will be used to fu rther the objectives of that particular corporation. For example, the Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation pre­ the Opposition House Leader, he does have a sently fu nds 12 police officers fr om the City of point of order. Any questions taken as notice do Winnipeg to deal with the car-theft problem. not require a postamble. That is a policy initiated by the former govern­ ment. It seems like a good policy because it is Government Agencies one that reduces the claims that are made against Surpluses that corporation with respect to stolen vehicles. So. given that precedent. we will proceed in a Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): I would like to similar fa shion to make use of the surpluses to address my question to the Minister of Finance. achieve the objectives that Manitobans set fo r We know that from time to time government those agencies. agencies, especially agencies that are rate collectors, run surpluses. The example of the Government Agencies Employment Insurance surplus that the fe deral Surpluses government is fac ing comes to mind, especially at a time when we have our farmers in dire Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. straits, low commodity pnces, and you have a Speaker, to fo llow up on the question fr om the fe deral government who have the distinction of member fo r Carman, the government of walking around waving this bagful of money and Saskatchewan, also a government of the New not knowing where to spend it. Democratic Party, has a policy where they take dividends from Crown corporations such as their I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if hydro utility, their insurance agency and use he could advise the House what his government that, in essence. subsidize the operation of plans to do with any surpluses held by government by increasing the cost of those basic government agencies such as MPI or Workers public utilities. Compensation. We are asking the Minister of Finance Hon. (Minister of Finance): today: will he say categorically to the people of would like to thank the honourable member fo r Manitoba that his administration will not fo llow the question. With respect to any surpluses held that policy used in Saskatchewan of transferring by agencies, first of all, we have to get the dollars fr om Crown corporations by way of information those surpluses will in fact be there, dividends to subsidize the operation of and then we will decide in the course of provincial services? December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 489

Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Selinger: Look, the member opposite seems Well, first of all, we are going to keep these to be concerned about one particular way of Crown corporations within the control of the plucking fe athers from the chicken called Crown government. By doing that, we will ensure that corporations. There have been many fashions in any surpluses that are generated by those which Crown corporations contribute to the organizations are available for the benefit of all economy of Manitoba, and I have given some. Manitobans. Some of them pay a capital tax; some of them make transfers directly to programs, which are Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, this is very impor­ relevant to the mandate of that organization; tant for the people of Manitoba to understand the others pay water rentals. There are a number of direction of this government. vehicles that are available. All of those should be considered with respect to maintaining the I ask the minister: does that mean that the purpose of that organization and, at the same ratepayers who pay automobile insurance, the time, ensuring that Manitobans get among the ratepayers who pay for their hydroelectricity, the best quality of service in the world. The essential employers who pay for Workers Compensation point here, Mr. Speaker, is that those organi­ coverage-does that mean that if he and his zations remain within the control of Manitobans colleagues decide that any surplus would be and that we have those options available to us. better used by going into the general revenue of

the province, he would rather see those dollars * (1350) flow into the Treasury than returned to those ratepayers by reduced Autopac fe es, reduced Crop Insurance hydro fees or reduced Workers Compensation Unseeded Acreage premiums? Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, Mr. Selinger: I thank the honourable member listening to CBC this morning in an interview opposite fo r his question. It is important that that was done with the wife of a farmer in these agencies maintain competitive rates for western Manitoba, it was very indicative of how Manitobans, and that is a policy that we will difficultthe farm situation is in this province and continue. But it is also important to note that has become. She said that she had a full-time those agencies generate programs and use job off the farm, and she also said that her monies within those agencies to fund those farmer husband is not going to be on the farm programs. I have given the example of auto this winter; he is going to move to Alberta to see theft: police officers made available to the City if he can get a job in the oil fields to support of Winnipeg. Hydro already pays water rentals. paying off the debt on the farm, the recurring That is revenue available to the government of debt. There has been a lot of discussion about Manitoba. the possibility of changing crop insurance and how crop insurance is administered and applied. What we will do is we will make sure that The fo rmer Minister of Agriculture for this those Crown corporations stay within the ambit province indicated a willingness to move crop of government control and that the revenues insurance to a mandatory acreage insurance for from those corporations will continue to fund the unseeded acres. retained earnings policy and the investments that are required to keep those corporations I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture competitive. Then we will take it from there. today: will she be directing her department to implement the unseeded acreage insurance as Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, it is the "take it part of the basic mandatory insurance package from there" that worries Manitobans. Will the for Manitoba farmers for the crop year 2000- minister simply confirm today that his adminis­ 2001? tration will not transfer any surpluses from those utility corporations by way of a dividend to the Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agri­ Treasury of Manitoba as his colleagues in culture and Food): Mr. Speaker, the member Saskatchewan do? raises a very important issue. Had we had this 490 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, I999 policy in place last year and had the previous Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for government implemented that policy when it Emerson, please put your question. was offered to them rather than turning it down, we would have not had the situation in Mr. Jack Penner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. southwestern Manitoba where we had the crisis, truly do apologize fo r bringing the correct and farmers would have gotten a payment. information to this House because she has not Certainly it is a program that we are looking at, been successful in convincing her fe deral and we would have to look at long-term counterparts to come with programs that will programs so that the people will be able to have give our fa rmers in Manitoba comfort. I ask the insurance, that they can have something to rely minister- on when they face this kind of unseeded acreage rather than ad hoc programs as we have had to Mr. Speaker: Order, please. have this year. Point of Order Mr. Jack Penner: I want to ask the minister: does she know that the option was actually there, Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House that it was an option? The unseeded acreage Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, the option has been there fo r some years now fo r all member has just been brought to order, and yet farmers in Manitoba. What I am asking the he continues to flaunt the rules and your minister is: is she prepared to ask her depart­ directive. I ask again if you would remind him ment to make it part of the mandatory basic to respect the rules of the House and your insurance coverage, and is she going to do it fo r directives and simply pose his question with no the year 2000-200I? supplementary. Ms. Wowchuk: Certainly we have had unseeded Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for acreage insurance in the past. It has not worked. Emerson, please place your question. There was a very low take-up rate on it. We have to look at other options, and we are looking at this option. I ask the member opposite to stay * * * tuned; we will have an answer fo r you very * (1355) soon. Mr. Jack Penner: I have been staying tuned Mr. Jack Penner: Thank you very much, Mr. and so have all our farmers in Manitoba been Speaker. Then with my final supplementary staying tuned to her negotiations with her friends question: what will the cost of premiums be if in Ottawa, and it is very apparent that her and when you decide to bring fo rward this ineffectiveness in negotiations- program, and when will the applications be made available to Manitoba fa rmers? Will they Mr. Speaker: Order, please. be in time fo r the year 2000-200 I?

Point of Order Hon. (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member fo r Emerson took some cheap shots at a Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House very, very effective cabinet minister, and I am Leader): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you could very disappointed in the language in his firstout­ draw the member's attention to Citation 4I 0 in of-order question that he posed to the Minister of Beauchesne: "supplementary questions require Agriculture. We believe that the Minister of no preambles." Agriculture has made more progress in II weeks on negotiating some of the very tangible options Mr. Speaker: On that point of order, the available fo r producers than the member honourable Government House Leader does opposite did in 11 years. have a point of order. May I caution all members that a preamble is not required for a The member opposite also asked how supplementary question. successful we have been with the, quote, federal

*** government. We are working on a co-operative, December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 491 long-term-[interjection] Well, we can judge the flood conditions and if there were any more zero results of members opposite's policy. I negative weather conditions that would result in would ask members opposite, within the next massive flooding in a number of communities. three weeks we are very, very optimistic about We are also concerned about the operation of the concluding our negotiations in a very successful floodway and its impact on upstream com­ way for the producers of Manitoba and get away munities, so we are looking, with the department from the short-term, ad hoc crisis payments of of Natural Resources and the federal govern­ the past and look at a more favourable program ment, at a number of short-term recommen­ of the future under the leadership of our Minister dations that can hopefully relieve some of the of Agriculture. pressure on flooding in Manitoba communities, both inside the city of Winnipeg and outside the International Joint Commission Report city of Winnipeg. We are obviously looking at Government's Position the longer-term half-billion-dollar item as in longer-term views. Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): The Inter­ national Joint Commission recently released an Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, could the Premier engineering report on Winnipeg's vulnerability tell us: what is the government's time frame for to flooddamage. The report concludes that there implementing improvements to the province's is a pressing need to improve the city of flood protection system, as recommended in the Winnipeg's flood defences, as well as the flood InternationalJoint Commission's report? protection measures in place throughout the Red River Valley. Mr. Doer: I met with the officials from the department of Natural Resources upon the Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the release of the report. They are reporting back to Premier: does the government agree with all the us early January on their assessment of the IJC recommendations of the International Joint recommendations. Obviously, the flood con­ Commission's report, which is the flood ditions right now are favourable, but Manitobans protection for Winnipeg? know that flood conditions can change very, very rapidly in our province. I think all the snow Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, no. was melted in March of '97, and then we had that massive blizzard shortly thereafter, causing such Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, the First Minister horrificconditions for many communities, so we met with Mr. Axworthy last Friday. I wonder if are meeting very early in January. We raised he could tell us what discussions they had about this subject. We talked about the IJC report the implementation of the International Joint extensively at our meeting with the two levels of Commission's report. government. We are trying to work on ideas that will deal with this next spring if we can. Mr. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we both agreed that the Speaker, obviously the longer-term recommen­ recommendation to place a dam at Ste. Agathe dations with the half billion dollars, we certainly and flood upstream communities would be very want to have our own analysis of those negative, and I am surprised the Conservative recommendations. Party, with the question asking us to endorse all recommendations, would be endorsing a policy The other thing, Mr. Speaker, we are also to flood all the communities upstream from Ste. talking about is new highway construction. If Agathe. I am quite surprised that that is the they are going to pass over the area of the position taken by the Conservative Party. floodway, should we not be anticipating the inadequacies of our structures based on the So we rejected the recommendation on the existing floodway structures? So, in other Ste. Agathe dam because of the upstream words, if we build a road, such as twinning damage it would do. We agreed on that. We Highway 15, should we not look ahead to the have our officials working in both departments future rather than build things to the past? So on some of the measures that we can take in the we are already trying to do that as well in short term. We are quite concerned about the '97 governmentpolicy. 492 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

* (1400) We are still waiting for the $4 million from Connie Curran. We are still waiting for the $15 Urban Shared Services Corporation million a year from frozen food, and we are still Mortgage Value waiting for the hundred million dollars from SmartHealth that they promised we would get. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health on fiscal management. Curiously, the It is a travesty, Mr. Speaker, and I want to assure members opposite that we are examining government's first major expenditure, the $24.5 this very carefully because we do not want to be million, was not on child poverty, not on part of a situation where the former government education, not on the farm crisis but on the tried to conceal, in my opinion, what they were mortgage on a white elephant, and it was made doing in regard to the SmartHealth agreement. before the Provincial Auditor could complete his investigations. With the recent revelations that SmartHealth the former Tory government had committed to Government Plan pay $10 million to SmartHealth fo r expenditures which were not approved, I ask the Minister of Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Health if he will give assurances to the people of Speaker, my supplementary on fiscal manage­ Manitoba that he will not waste $10 million of ment is to the Minister of Intergovernmental taxpayers' money on unapproved activities. Will Affairs (Ms. Friesen). How much money, I ask, he show to the people of Manitoba that his has the provincial government actually spent, not business sense is improving, or is he going to committed, but actually spent under the terms of throw away more money after white elephants? the five-year Winnipeg Development Agree­ ment, and is the low level of expenditure, as Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): reported recently under the fo rmer Tory govern­ Mr. Speaker, I thank the member fo r that ment, the fact that there was little commitment to question, and it is a two-part question. With the City of Winnipeg and only 14 departmental regard to the mortgage, the member, I think, has staff to serve half the population of Manitoba? difficulty understanding that the former government of Manitoba had already indebted us Mr. Speaker: Order, please. to that money. That money was gone when the former Premier and those Health ministers Point of Order signed off. That money was committed. It was gone. It was a mortgage that was signed. Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Unauthorized by this Legislature, a 20-year Leader): Mr. Speaker, I do believe the honour­ mortgage was entered into. So all we did was able member has one question; this is his second. take the mortgage and take it under our own I would ask that you rule his second question out ownership so we could have some control of it. of order, and we move on in rotation. So that money was not spent; that money was already spent by the previous government. An Honourable Member: Why did you not do With regard to the SmartHealth boondoggle, that with the member for Emerson (Mr. Jack Mr. Speaker, that was entered into by members Penner)? opposite, and it is interesting that members opposite-we stood in this House day after day An Honourable Member: He is allowed. and questioned the expenditure of that funding, and I might add that the fo rmer caucus members Mr. Speaker: On the ruling of the honourable- supported the SmartHealth initiative. We always had difficulties with it. We did not think we Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. should sign up a hundred million dollars of taxpayers' dollars on another boondoggle like Mr. Speaker: Order, please. May I caution all Connie Curran or another frozen fo od boon­ members that a supplementary question does not doggle where they are going to make money. require a preamble. December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 493

The honourable Opposition House Leader, we can develop the infrastructure technology in fo r clarification. the health sector in the province of Manitoba, which has been locked into this SmartHealth Mr. Laurendeau: For clarification, Mr. agreement that is supposed to realize $100 Speaker, my point of order is that his second million in savings, and all that money-pardon question was not a supplementary question but a me, $200 million was supposed to go to enhance new question to a new minister. It had nothing health care, and, like Connie Curran and like to do with the first question, so that would be frozen fo od, we have not seen any of those referred to as a second question, which he is not dollars. In fact, it has cost us money. entitled to. Audit Tabling Request Mr. Speaker: On the same point of order, the honourable member fo r River Heights. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My second supplementary to the Minister of Health: Mr. Gerrard: Both questions deal with fiscal will the minister provide reassurance that he will management. One is a supplementary to the make this audit fu lly public before there are other. major decisions on new expenditures in this area? Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member does have a point of order. A supple­ Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): mentary question is raised to clarify information Mr. Speaker, right now, because of the nature of on the previous initial question. Would the the agreements entered into, we have asked honourable member fo r River Heights, please Deloitte and Touche to give us accounting as rephrase his supplementary question? well as legal advice with respect to the agree­ ments, the negotiations and the counterclaims Mr. Gerrard: My supplementary to the that were entered into by members opposite. We Minister of Health: given the circumstances are very concerned. around the SmartHealth expenditure, what are the minister's plans fo r SmartHealth in the To say that we are concerned would be an future? understatement with respect to the way the members opposite dealt with that agreement. Mr. Chomiak: After being very concerned We will make, on behalf of all of the public of about this deal for some time and raising it over Manitoba, all of the information possible public and over again in the Legislature, and after not because of the concerns that I have with respect rece1vmg any satisfaction from members to negotiations, because of concerns regarding opposite during the election campaign, we litigation and likewise. At this point, we are in a indicated we would undertake an audit of the situation where we are awaiting the report from process. The present Deloitte and Touche firm Deloitte and Touche, but I will make as much are actually looking at every financial con­ public as possible so that Manitobans will know figuration of this particular deal. I want members what the story was with respect to the members opposite to realize not only are there issues of opposite and the odyssey of SmartHealth. expenditure of money and what appears to me to be an attempt by the former governmentto cover Aboriginal Gaming Policy up their tracks in this regard, but there are also Selection Committee concerns abouthow far behind we have fallen in technology as a result of all of the initiatives in Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba being poured into this particular on December 6, the Minister of Consumer and SmartHealth enterprise. Corporate Affairs stood in the House and said, I quote: we are committed to the Bostrom report. So not only are we exammmg all of the facets of the deal that was entered into by My question to the Minister of Consumer members opposite, but we are also pursuing all and Corporate Affairs is: since he is so com­ of the options available to us with respect to how mitted to the Bostrom report, will this govern- 494 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 ment ensure that the selection committee is not a the way of any kind of agreement. We did not two-person committee, as outlined in the put roadblocks and barricades in front of First briefing note to this minister, but that it is Nations people trying to do better for comprised, as stated in the Bostrom report, of, themselves. and I quote: representatives from the First Nations, business, government, the general Request for Proposals public, with assistance from experienced individuals in the industry? Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, it appears this government is doing nothing but Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer listening to newfound friends, as opposed to and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, yes, we consulting. are committed to the Bostrom report. Its implementations are dealing with bringing My second supplementary question to the revenue, economic development and employ­ minister. Based on his own briefing notes from ment opportunities to First Nations which is his own department, will the minister now extremely important, and I am sure members simply answer a simple question: is this govern­ opposite would realize that. ment fa st-tracking native gambling with a deadline fo r the RFP criteria as stated in here, We have made a commitment to look at principles, as indicated in this briefing note? Is using the material within the Bostrom report, so native gambling being fa st-tracked, yes or no? I thank the member very much fo r that question. Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer Mr. Loewen: Well, Mr. Speaker, I will not and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, with have the temerity to ask the honourable regard to a number of diffe rent issues that were minister-to thank him for his response fo r not raised, the member opposite referred to answering the question. "friends." Well, fr iends, the First Nations community of Roseau is consulting with one of * (1410) their friends, Mr. Ernst, and we are not standing in the way of any First Nations community Consultations consulting with anyone with regard to this issue.

Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): My question As I mentioned previously, there is ongoing to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate consultation taking place, and there is dialogue Affairs who remains, as he says, committed to happening. So what I would like to say is that the Bostrom report: will he confirm that no the negotiations are still taking place. Thank destination gaming facilities will be allowed to you. proceed before input from surrounding com­ munities and municipalities has been both Disaster Assistance provided and given as stated in the Bostrom Federal-Provincial Agreement report? Mr. Scott Smith (Brandon West): Mr. Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer Speaker, my question is for the Minister of and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, our Highways and Government Services. government is not encouraging or standing in the way of First Nations that are exploring their options with regard to this matter. There are Being the minister responsible for The ongoing negotiations. We are not standing in the Emergency Measures Act, I wonder whether his road of First Nations people. office has heard anything at all from the fe deral government officials regarding Manitoba's All I would like to say is that the ongoing request fo r a fe deral-provincial agree­ negotiations are ongoing at present with AMC, ment on disaster assistance fo r farmers in south­ and AMC is having ongoing negotiations with western Manitoba and in western Manitoba. It First Nations communities. We did not stand in should be similar to the Red River Valley December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 495 agreement that was received by the Red River Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Valley residents in 1997-if the minister would. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. (Minister of Highways and Government Services): Mr. Speaker, this Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to province, going back to June 7, the previous announce that we have successfully incorporated governmenthas been asking fo r one simple thing all First Nations industry and government in the for southwest Manitoba in its time of difficulty. first ever aboriginal protocol document, the first It is the same kind of treatment that Saguenay in Canada and North America. That is the first received in '96, that Red River received in '97, step towards getting the mine. Thank you. that the ice storm received in '98, specifically that items such as weed control, applied Mr. Pitura: I know that there are several fe rtilizer, forest restoration will be covered, and options. The question is: what is the minister's also there will be a jobs and economic plan in reference to the option of either the restoration initiative similar to what took place government or Cross Lake First Nation buying in 1997. We understand the difficulty in out Gossan Resources' 50 percent share of the southwest Manitoba, and we urge the federal deposit? government to be just as generous as it was in the '97 situation in Red River. Ms. Mihychuk: Mr. Speaker, the negotiations with Cross Lake are in a sensitive position. We Titanium Mine-Cross Lake are working very closely with the band, with Land Dispute Gossan Resources, with the principals involved. It would be totally inappropriate to do the Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): Mr. Speaker, negotiation here in the House, and the member currently 750 kilometres north of Winnipeg, near across the way should know better. Pipestone Lake, lies what could be a $500- million titanium mine and the potential of Mr. Pitura: Mr. Speaker, can the minister then approximately a thousand jobs. Unfortunately, advise the House what the estimated cost would this potential project has been delayed due to a be of the share that Gossan Resources owns? land dispute as to who should own the resource. Ms. Mihychuk: I guess that depends whose As the Minister of Industry, Trade and side you are on, and that varies. We are in the Mines has hired Mr. Lyle Skinner to do a fact­ midst of negotiations. We are talking to all finding mission, can the minister advise this members of this. It is very important to the House as to the time frame given to Mr. Skinner economy of Manitoba, as the member knows, to report back to her department, and will the very important to the people who live in the minister commit to tabling a report upon its North. This is finally an opportunity where we completion? can see First Nations participating as an equal Hon. MaryAnn Mihychuk (Minister of partner. We will do everything we can on this Industry, Trade and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I side to get the project to work, not like years of thank the honourable member fo r asking the stalling and unfortunate negotiations which question about mining. I am very pleased to sidetracked the whole project for years and report to the House that indeed we have been years. working very diligently with the community of Cross Lake on trying to develop a process of Call Centres trust, which is the first step required in any Government Position negotiation with First Nations. Unfortunately, negotiations had been poisoned, deadlocked, Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, because of the hard feelings between the the members for Fort Rouge, Flin Flon, Lord previous government and the community of Roberts and Burrows have referred to the Cross Lake. employment opportunities offered by call centres numerous times as McJobs. Last week the It was not until we had successfully- Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. 496 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

Mihychuk) said in reference to Gage Marketing Selkirk, we believe also will meet its employ­ opening a second call centre in Selkirk that the ment targets. We are also pleased to see that it is centres are an integral part of our economy. working on e-commerce and other ideas of the future in Selkirk. Mr. Speaker, to the minister: according to the NDP, all call centres are an integral part of All jobs are not created equally, and all the community, or are they McJobs? Can you grants, obviously, were not equally accountable have it both ways? Would you please tell us? to members opposite. We want to have a much more consistent policy so we can stay away from Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): We have The Full Faneuil in the future. Meal Deal with the Faneuil deal from members opposite. Certainly I wonder if the member for Mr. Speaker: Time fo r Oral Questions has Fort Whyte is now claiming that $20 million in expired. public liability for the Faneuil deal for 400 jobs was free enterprise that he supports and his party MEMBERS' STATEMENTS supports here in Manitoba. Farm Family of the Year Award Mr. Speaker, we-I think all of us- Mr. (Dauphin-Roblin): Mr. Speaker, the Manitoba Conservation Districts An Honourable Member: Big Whopper. Association held its annual meeting a short while ago. Every year that association awards the Farm Mr. Doer: Well, it was a Big Whopper. Twenty Family of the Year Award to a family in million dollars for 400 jobs at Faneuil, another Manitoba who exemplifies and uses farm one of the troika of boondoggles fo r members practices that encourage conservation tech­ opposite. SmartHealth, frozen food, Faneuil, niques, accepted practices that improve the regrettably, have cost this province a consider­ environment in rural Manitoba. able amount of money. I am very proud to inform all my fe llow Mr. Speaker, I think it is important that, members here today that constituents of mine by wherever possible, private industry and the the names of Steve and Anita Kindzerski and government work-[interjection] their fam ily were recipients of this award just two weeks ago at the Conservation Districts * (1420) annual meeting. Steve and Anita and their Mr. Speaker: Order, please. fam ily farm south of the community of Rorketon. I know the fam ily from when I was Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I think it is very the school principal at Rorketon. I know that the important that all of us do what we can to make Kindzerskis are very committed to the conser­ sure there are more fu ll-time jobs available for vation farm practices that they have been our kids and our grandchildren, because we want recognized here fo r. and we know that a society that strives fo r fu ll­ I want to add that this is the second year in a time employment for our young people, for our row that constituents from Dauphin-Roblin have unemployed people has a greater chance of received this award, as Joe Federowich and his putting down roots in our community and fam ily won this last year. growing our communities and growing our future. So we make no apologies in trying to So I am very pleased to join with everyone focus in on strategies that deal with fu ll-time here today to congratulate Steve and Anita work. Kindzerski and their family on the receipt of this award. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Gage Marketing company, I think, to the credit of the members opposite, did meet its Child Poverty initial employment targets, not like all the other companies that received money from the Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): members opposite. The new operation in Mr. Speaker, Thursday last, December 9, the December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 497 member for Riel (Ms. Asper) chose to rise and ledge a fine example of industrial development make some comments regarding the issue of in the Interlake which I had the distinct pleasure child poverty and how it pertains to the city of of seeing this past week. The development I Portage Ia Prairie, which is my constituency, and have referred to is called Vidir Machine Shop, I fe el I must respond. and it was established by a Mennonite family, the Duecks in the Okno area just north of I find it extremely disturbing that another Arborg. The company, which employs in the member of this House would rise and put neighbourhood of 80 people, manufactures remarks on the record about another member's equipment for the carpet industry, mainly rolling constituency without prior consultation with that and cutting machines but also storage and elected representative for that constituency. dispensing racks, which can be found in most While I can appreciate the member fo r Riel's major retail outlets across the continent. concern regarding the very important issue of child poverty, I take issue with the way this The company was started up by the father, member attempted to gamer political mileage who had hands-on experience installing carpets from the issue of child poverty. Unfortunately, which led him to envision machines and equip­ child poverty is a reality, not only in Portage Ia ment which would make this task easier. I want Prairie but all across this nation. The comments to acknowledge this particular accomplishment she made about the poverty level in Portage and that of the Mennonite people in general in were, in fact, based on the census data of 1996, the Okno and surrounding areas for their diver­ not necessarily accurately reflecting what has sification away from primary agricultural happened in this community since that date. production, which I fe el is the key for survival Mr. Speaker, I can proudly say that and growth in rural communities such as you residents, including myself, from Portage Ia will find in the Interlake. Modem, environ­ Prairie have not buried their heads in the sand mentally friendly manufacturing such as this, and have been very active in addressing this accompanied by a parallel program of research consideration, which unfortunately is an and development, will ensure that this com­ abnormality, of which the member fo r Riel (Ms. munity of people will continue to grow and Asper) was obviously not aware. flourish as we enter into the new millennium.

We in co-operation with, that means I as a While there. I was also shown an experi­ member, the Youth for Christ, the local Portage mental heat-generating system that utilized Ia Prairie School Division, the City of Portage Ia round bales but took the process a step further in Prairie and others, have undertaken to address that temperatures achieved were much higher this issue. Here in Portage la Prairie we are very than normally reached by conventional burning, proud to say that we are on the leading edge of and the result was very little smoke released into addressing poverty, and the 1996 figures do not the atmosphere. Actions such as this above all adequately reflectthe situation. I am very proud should be acknowledged, utilizing surplus to say that we have some of the initiatives that capital to develop technology which will lessen were outlined in the throne speech where the the damage mankind does to the atmosphere. schools are open on every occasion where Hats off to Vidir Machine, Mr. Speaker. warranted. Each of us as elected representatives must be extremely careful about the types of Jack Murray remarks we make in this House. The remarks Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): Mr. Speaker, must be accurate and fair, and they must be Jack Murray passed away on November 18, responsible fo r that statement. 1999. Jack Murray was a very devoted husband, father and grandfather. Jack spent most of his Mr. Speaker: The honourable member's time productive life in Morris as a businessman, as has expired. mayor, and at the time of his death, his second Vidir Machine Shop term as councillor for the Town of Morris. Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Mr. Jack served as mayor from 1971 to '86. He Speaker, I rise in the House today to acknow- was actively involved at the Morris Develop- 498 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 ment Corporation and the hospital board. At the which help develop the youth of our country into time of his death, Jack was very much involved adults. at the Morris Area Seniors, the Morris Manor Board, the Valley Regional Library and the Thank you very much to all those people Morris Ambulance Board. Jack was also a who have spent countless hours in activities to member of the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation make our society stronger. Board.

* (1430) Jack was an avid reader and had an extensive compendium of books in his study. Committee Change Jack also had a very keen sense of humour and always had a joke or two to share with me after Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for he gave me his advice fo r the day. In fact, his Pembina, on a committee change. sense of humour was capsulized by his son David at the funeral when he shared with us that Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I Jack Murray wanted to be cremated on his death, move, seconded by the honourable member for and the reason he gave for wanting to be Gimli (Mr. Helwer), that the composition of the cremated was that would be absolutely the last Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be time people could ever call him an ash. amended as fo llows: the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) fo r the honourable Jack Murray has left behind a legacy for the member fo r Southdale (Mr. Reimer). town and the community of Morris. His presence will be missed, and I know his wife and their Motion agreed to. children, Jackie [phonetic] and David, will carry the torch which he has passed proudly and with great energy. Thank you. ORDERS OF THE DAY

Assiniboia Community Activities House Business

Mr. (Assiniboia): I would like to Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House bring all members' attention to a number of Leader): On a matter of House business, it is activities that I have recently attended within the my understanding that there has been agreement Assiniboia constituency. Ness Middle School, to proceed with the condolence motions this Hedges School, Heritage Park Children's centre, afternoon and, fo llowing that, moving to Orders Fairlane daycare centre and John Taylor of the Day, the second reading of Bill 2, The Collegiate concerts have all just recently taken City of Winnipeg Amendment Act, Mr. Speaker. place. I was impressed by these activities. They had excellent student, staff, parent and com­ Mr. Speaker: Agreed? [agreed] munity involvement. I must commend all those who have spent countless hours volunteering Motions of Condolence their time and talents in these and other endeavours. Walter Clifton McDonald

These activities provide excellent oppor­ Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded tunities for the growth of all our children. by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Filmon), Studies have shown that most CEOs and com­ munity leaders have participated in extra­ THAT this House convey to the family of curricular activities such as bands, sports teams, the late Walter Clifton McDonald, who served as et cetera. These activities develop interpersonal a member of the Legislative Assembly of skills, communication and teamwork skills Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereave­ which contribute greatly to our society. Our ment and its appreciation of his devotion to duty government supports these and other initiatives in a useful life of active community and public December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 499 service, and that Mr. Speaker be requested to Mr. McDonald, as I say, was an individual fo rward a copy of this resolution to the family. who was elected for three terms in this Legislature, a record that not very many Motion presented. members are able to duplicate. He obviously was a person who had a great deal of credibility Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, Walter Clifton from his own community in that he had served McDonald served in this Legislature and was on the school board and the board of regents. elected in 1949 as a member of the Liberal Party Mr. McDonald was predeceased by his wife, of this province, November 10 in fact. He Jean. He has four children-Mildred, John, represented the electoral district of Dufferin. He Isobel and Barrie. was re-elected in 1953 and again in 1958, and he served his province until 1959. On behalf of our party and members of our caucus, Mr. Speaker, we want to offer our Walter is certainly a person who should be sincere condolences to the McDonald Family remembered in this Legislature for his com­ and thank him for his contributions to his munity contributions and his community community of Roland and to the people of activity. He was a person who was employed by Manitoba. the Canadian Bank of Commerce, and he returned to Roland, Manitoba, after working in Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official Ontario and Manitoba where he worked in the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased, insurance business of his father. He operated on behalf of my colleagues on this side of the this insurance business until 1986. House, to join with the Premier in paying tribute to Walter Clifton McDonald and expressing our Walter was a school trustee fo r 25 years, and great appreciation and respect for a lifetime of certainly he represented the community of service that he devoted not only to his Roland in that school trustee position. From community but to the entire province. there, he went to the Board of Regents of the , and then he was Walter McDonald was not an individual that subsequently elected to this Legislature. Walter I knew, but certainly in reading his biography, was a person who was involved in the establish­ you can see the rich history that he had of ment of the original Boys and Girls Club in his service and commitment to his fe llow human home community of Roland which eventually beings. The Premier has referred to his involve­ became the 4-H Club of that community. ment in the beginnings of the 4-H Club in his area, the devotion that he had to the United Mr. Speaker, he was an individual who was Church and teaching youth group Sunday a devoted member of the Freemasonry. He school, the service that he had ultimately on the joined the Masonic Lodge in Fort Frances in board of regents at the University of Winnipeg, 1927, and in 1929 he affiliated with the Lodge his involvements to the highest levels in the No. 70 in Roland. He was elected the Grand Masonic Order in our province. All of these Master of the Grand Lodge in Manitoba in 1948. speak of a person who was very committed to In 1945. he had become a member of the public service and to the support of his fe llow Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of human beings throughout his community and the Freemasonry in the Winnipeg Valley. He was various organizations that were important in that elected a 33-degree Mason in '55, and in 1976 he community, in and around Roland, Manitoba. was elected to serve a three-year period as a Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Mr. McDonald, of course, served in this Council of Canada. He was a charter member of Legislature for nine and a half years. That is a the Royal Order of Scotland of Manitoba and period of time that is longer than the average. I served as the first Provincial Grand Master, a believe it is about six years. So he had a position he held for 10 consecutive years. He significant contribution to make during his received the Legion of Honour degree in the service here in this Legislature. order of DeMolay in 1971 in recognition of contributions to Freemasonry. * (1440) 500 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

He was active, as you can tell from his McDonald who contributed a fu ll life with an biography, fo r a long, long time, certainly at 96 extraordinary record of service to Manitoba and years at passing. He was well into his 80s when indeed to the Liberal Party and to rural he was still running his insurance agency. That Manitoba. My condolences to the family and to is a very significant period of service in the fr iends. business world as well as a member of many organizations and his public service. I think all Mr. Denis Rocan (Carman): Today I would of us should be grateful for Mr. McDonald's time like to say a few remarks in remembrance of in this Legislature, for all of the contributions Walter McDonald, the late member fo r Dufferin. that he made to public life in and around the Before I begin, though, I would just like to community of Roland and for the great comment on what a worthy exercise I think this dedication he had to improving the circum­ Assembly is conducting today. stances of young people through his teaching of Sunday school, his establishment of the Boys It is a great honour fo r each of us to and Girls Club and 4-H clubs and his service recognize our predecessors, and I think the obviously at the board of regents at the fam ilies and fr iends of those who we remember University of Winnipeg and 25 years on the here are grateful for our words. school board. When we recognize those who have passed So I am delighted to join with the Premier on before us, we pay tribute to the longevity and (Mr. Doer) in expressing the condolences of sanctity of this Legislature. Frequent reflection members on this side of the House to his on the contributions of those who have passed children, Mildred, John, Isobel and Barrie, and before us serves as an invaluable guide to to his 17 grandchildren and his 12 great-grand­ continuing the sound governance that this children and to also express our gratitude fo r province has enjoyed. Walter Clifton McDonald's devotion and service to the people of this province. Walter Clifton McDonald, the late member for the electoral district of Dufferin, was born in Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I rise, Mr. 1903, nearly a century ago, to a wealthy land­ Speaker, to add my voice to the leaders of the owning fam ily in Roland, Manitoba. In fact, the NDP and the Conservative Party to the town of Roland got its name from Walter's expression of condolences to the fam ily of father. Roland McDonald. Walter inherited a Walter Clifton McDonald. I rise to add my large land-owning estate in the locale of the voice to the appreciation fo r an individual who province and was an esteemed member of the served Manitoba fo r many, many years, born in community. The late member would call Roland Roland in 1903, and in the years since then, home fo r his entire life and was dedicated to the through his contributions to the school board, his continued prosperity of the town. contributions to the Masonic Lodge, his con­ tributions in many ways to the community of Roland and indeed the rural area around Roland. His contributions to the region are many. think it is very appropriate fo r me, as a They speak highly of Mr. Clifton representative of that part of the province, to McDonald, who was fo r almost I 0 years a mention some of them here today. member of this Legislature, a representative of the Liberal Party at a time when there were As I have noted in this House before, major Liberal initiatives to enhance electrifi­ Roland is the birthplace of the 4-H Club of cation in rural Manitoba. I think that it is a Canada. In his youth, the late member was one testament to the efforts of Mr. Walter Clifton of the charter members of this organization, McDonald and other Liberals of the day, their which was called then the Roland Boys and concern for rural Manitoba and indeed for all of Girls Club. It was his participation in this club Manitoba, that we have had major progress in that would mark the beginning of his community those years and indeed since then. So I will involvement. In his adulthood, he went on to conclude just in saying that it was Mr. serve on numerous boards and committees. December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 501

Quite notably, he served as a trustee of the In the early '70s, I had an opportunity to Roland School District for 25 years. meet with him several times. Among the many accomplishments that he had, another one was that of giving legal advice. I do not believe that Despite his dedication to his family's he was a lawyer. However, he did offe r advice. insurance business, the late member's services In this capacity, I purchased property and he did were by no means limited to his home com­ the paperwork for me at that time. munity. He spent fo ur years on the Board of Regents of United College, now the University I learnedto know him as a man who was a of Winnipeg, and, as we all know, he was an dedicated person, someone who was dedicated to elected member of the . his community. As has already been said, he lived in the Roland municipality, in that area, for The honourable member was first sent to the most of his life . He served many of the people Legislature by his constituents in 1949, when he within that area. So I had my opportunity to ran as a Liberal Progressive. The voters of learn to know him in that capacity as one who Dufferin returned him to this House on two was doing some of the paperwork when legal subsequent occasions before he was defeated transactions needed to be made. after some 10 years of service. He was a fr iendly man. I enjoyed visiting with him. He told me of the opportunities that Although I never knew Walter McDonald he had had in his lifetime and the many personally, I share a special bond with him. opportunities that he had had to serve the public Throughout his long life, he was a dedicated and in many diffe rent ways. honoured member of the Masonic Lodge. I too am committed to the Masonic Order. This com­ He was energetic. I always found him monality makes us brothers. It is a true privilege inspiring, so I, too, would like to also express to be a Mason, and the late member did our my condolences to the family and just thank heritage proud, as was described to me one time them for the opportunity that I had to learn to on one of my outings with the former Premier, a know him and fo r the inspiration that he was to very dear fr iend of ours, D.L. Campbell, who me. spoke very highly of Mr. McDonald. * (1450) He was elected a 33-degree member of the Masonic Lodge in 1955. He served as a Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme adopt this motion? Council and was a charter member of the Royal Order of Scotland. In 1971, he received a Legion Some Honourable Members: Agreed. of Honour degree in recognition of his contribution to Freemasonry. It is indeed an Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members honour to have served with this man. please rise and remain standing to indicate their support for the motion. To conclude my remarks, I want to extend my condolences to the McDonald family. You A moment of silence was observed. have met with great loss, but it is a loss that is shared by all of us. Walter was a valued Cornelius W. Wiebe member of this House during his time of service. It is with heavy hearts that we remember him Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded today. His contributions to the province of by the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), Manitoba are very much appreciated. THAT this House convey to the family of Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I, the late Cornelius Wiebe, who served as a too, would like to put just a few comments on member of the Legislative Assembly of the record regarding Walter CliftonMcDonald. Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their bereave- 502 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 ment and its appreciation of his devotion to duty successfully completed by the families that he in a useful life of active community and public was involved in. service, and that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy of this resolution to the fam ily. He not only had the personal satisfaction and joy of being such a well-known medical Motion presented. doctor in his own community of Winkler, but he also left other programs behind for his fe llow Mr. Doer: I think we all knew of Dr. Cornelius citizens. He worked hard fo r handicapped kids, Wiebe. We were aware, certainly those of us and he established the Valley Rehabilitation who had not had a chance to meet him directly, Centre in his community. He was a fo unding of his reputation. I certainly had heard of his member of the Bethel Hospital in Winkler. He reputation before I was elected to office and was involved in the school board for 25 years. have heard about it since I was elected to office. He was a member of the College of Physicians He was an individual who is being eulogized and Surgeons. He was a president of the today, but, Mr. Speaker, he was a person whose Manitoba Medical Association, obviously legislative achievement of one term on June 6, having the respect of his peers. 1932, to reside in this Legislature to 1936 is quite frankly dramatically eclipsed by his human So as we recognize Dr. Wiebe here today for reputation and record as a medical doctor in his term in office, we have to acknowledge that Manitoba. his contributions in medicine, as I say, eclipsed his political career in this Legislature. I believe the headline in the paper stated that 6,000 babies were born under his medical Mr. Conrad Santos. Deputy Speaker. in the supervision. Six thousand babies in the Pembina Chair Valley were born under his medical supervision. What a tremendous, tremendous legacy that he But we would like to congratulate him for has to the thousands and thousands of families that election here to this Legislature, because it, over the 50 or so years he was a medical doctor­ again. shows and demonstrates tangibly the it must have been longer even-that he had respect and credibility he had in this community, provided so much joy and so much happiness to whether it was to hold office in the school board so many people through his work as a medical which it appears to me he has held through­ doctor in the Pembina Valley. out his provincial legislative term, or to hold office in the Legislature, or to hold office for a period of time with the College of Physicians I recall, of course, that he was given the and Surgeons and the Manitoba Medical Order of Canada a couple of years ago. I Association. remember Romeo LeBlanc issued the Order of Canada. I remember the kind of media attention it so correctly developed and received fo r this I know of many people who claim to have great human being that was being awarded the come to this world with the help of Dr. Wiebe, Order of Canada in his nursing home at 105 and I am sure that there is, as I say, lots of years of age. As I understand it, he had only stories across the way. I am sure there are lots moved shortly before that to the nursing home, of members across the way whose first speech that he had resided in his own residence prior to was actually given to Dr. Wiebe and not to this that period of time. Legislature.

Mr. Speaker, Dr. Cornelius Wieberetired at Mr. Deputy Speaker, Dr. Wiebe is age 85, but what stories he could tell. It is, succeeded by his daughters, Vema Bueckert and again, the history, and the media contained some Thelma, and his son, Leonard. His first wife, of the stories upon his death in July of this year, Helena, predeceased him, and his late wife, Ann, of Dr. Wiebe going to farm homes and also predeceased him. Dr. Wiebe certainly delivering babies at those farm homes, but leaves to mourn a number of grandchildren and getting there by sleigh to be able to have this joy great-grandchildren. December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 503

Mr. Deputy Speaker, it was obviously a long province culminating in the presidency in 1945- and successful and warm life he led. In reading 46, president as well of the Manitoba Medical some of the biographies on Dr. Cornelius Wiebe, Association in 1952-53. it certainly came to my attention that Mavis Reimer wrote a book: Cornelius W. Wiebe - A * (1500) Beloved Physician. He has served his community and the people As we pay tribute to his legislative career of this province in so many diffe rent ways that here in this Legislature, we pay tribute to a life he richly deserved the honour of being invested that contributed to his fellow human beings, and in the Order of Canada by Governor General a life of medicine that is full of joy and full of Romeo LeBlanc earlier this year. It really is a thousands of people of Manitoba and beyond remarkable record of service and achievement that have benefited from his medical skills and that we are celebrating in recognizing his life from his medical dedication. and his career here in this Legislature.

Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official So, Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and I add Opposition): It is a pleasure fo r me, on behalf our wishes of celebration to those that have been of my colleagues on this side of the House, to offered by the Leader of the New Democratic join with the Premier (Mr. Doer) and his Party, the Premier (Mr. Doer), to the children of colleagues in paying tribute to Dr. Cornelius Dr. Wiebe, Verna, Thelma and Leonard, and the Wiebe. five grandchildren and 11 great-grandchildren who survive him. Theirs is a very rich legacy Mr. Speaker in the Chair fr om their father, grandfather and great­ grandfather, a legacy of tremendous and devoted Although Dr. Wiebe only served in this service to his community and to the people of Legislature for four years, his biography reads as this province. a lifetime of service to people in so many diffe rent respects. As a family practitioner for He leaves behind so many achievements in 53 years, he has contributed mightily to the the field of medicine and in the field of setting development of families and the community in up institutions for those with mental disabilities and around Winkler. in our province. He leaves behind a great record of devotion to so many diffe rent organizations, He, of course, was founder of Bethel and we, as a province, are richer because of his Hospital in Winkler, an institution with which I devoted service to community and to province. am familiar, having been there and visited We extend our condolences, and we also people at various times over the years. He celebrate the many things that Dr. Cornelius organized the Winkler branch of the Association Wiebe left for our province to be richer. of Retarded Children in 1958 and established there a school for retarded children in 1963 and Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. the resulting Valley Rehabilitation Centre. a Speaker, I am here today to join with the sheltered workshop that I have visited on a Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in number of occasions as well that to this day extending condolences as the member for River continues to do a wonderful job of providing Heights and the Leader of the Liberal Party to activity and a productive work environment fo r family and friends of Dr. Cornelius Wiebe. those with mental disabilities. Indeed, fo r an individual who lived for some 106 years, it is perhaps less condolences than a real Twenty-five years on the school board celebration of achievement, a time to say, wow, during that period of time in which he was a full­ what an individual and what a contribution that time practitioner, delivering, as the Premier has Dr. Wiebe made to Manitoba. indicated, over 6,000 babies, remarkable that he had the time to do all that. In three different Born in Altona in the 1800s, he began the terms he spent 10 years as an elected member of practice of medicine in Winkler in 1925. Dr. the College of Physicians and Surgeons of our Wiebe serves as an example of the sort of 504 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 contribution that physicians can make to the in May by the special trip that Governor General public life of Manitoba and indeed to politics in Romeo LeBlanc made to Winkler to invest Dr. Manitoba. Though he practised for 53 years, he Wiebe as a member of the Order of Canada. was elected and served admirably and fa ithfully for Morden and Rhineland from 1932 to 1936. I should add, Dr. Wiebe was a life member of the . It is in this He contributed, not just in the political arena context that I have a particular pleasure for his and not just in the delivery of many thousands of contributions as a Liberal and in the Liberal babies, but in many other ways to the health care Progressive administration back in 1932 to '36 system of Manitoba. He founded the Bethel and his contributions in politics. I would Hospital in Winkler in 1935. He served as an emphasize and applaud and note the importance elected member ofthe College of Physicians and of the continuing growth of health care Surgeons for three terms, the first of which from professionals in politics from then till now. 1942 to 1947, during which period he served as president of the College of Physicians and Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I Surgeons, 1945 and 1946. He was, in addition, want to begin my reflection by saying what a president of the Manitoba Medical Association, true honour, what a privilege it is to rise and 1952-53. recognize Dr. Cornelius Wiebe in the House today. Dr. Wiebe was and continues to be a real I want to speak fo r a moment on his inspiration fo r us all. It is with the greatest contributions to children, not only in delivering respect that I make my remarks today. He will babies, but his concern for the health of children, be well remembered. Just as an aside, he was his concern in particular for those children who instrumental in assisting me into this world, as were retarded, those children who had he was with my three brothers and my two disabilities in one form or another. Dr. Wiebe sisters. So of those 6,000 that he helped deliver, organized and supervised the Winkler branch of we were some of them. what was then the Association for Retarded Children in 1958 and established a school in Dr. Wiebe was born in 1893 at a time when Winkler in 1963 and the Valley Rehabilitation the world was a very diffe rent place than the one Centre in 1970, continuing to be active and we know today. In his early life, automobiles concerned about the health care of children well and electric lighting were still a rare luxury and on in his years. life was harder on almost every front. That noted, it is all the more incredible that he was Indeed, his concern fo r health care able to grace us with his presence fo r 106 years. continued with his founding in 1982 of the Dr. This is a man who had completed his schooling C.W. Wiebe Foundation, providing instruments by the time the First World War broke out and and technology not otherwise available fo r the was a practising medical doctor before the Manitoba Health Hospital Commission Plan. So Second World War. year by year, decade by decade, in many fa cets of health care, Dr. Wiebe made a significant contribution. In reference to the early times, I remember the stories that he told and some of them were I should add that in addition to politics, sort of scary. There were times when he made serving in the Legislature in addition to his work house calls, and he did that at great length and in the health care area, his work and his would never think twice of going out. In fact, it dedication to the local school system, his service had been in spring and some of the bridges had for 25 years beginning in 1929 on the school been washed out, and he needed to get to this board is also notable. home where a lady was delivering a child. The bridge was out. He had a nurse with him, and So we are here together to honour and to this is where the story comes from. He did not celebrate the life of Dr. Wiebe, who made an repeat this, but the nurse did. So they had driven incredible contribution over many years, a up to where the washout was taking place. He contribution that was recognized earlier this year had backed up and taken a real good speed and December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 505 in fact had made it over the washout and did on three occasions between 1942 and 1963 and deliver the child, so this was truly doctors going served as that organization's president from 1945 to the homes and practising medicine. to '46. He also acted as a president of the Manitoba Medical Association in 1952 to '53. The life of Dr. Cornelius Wiebe was a full His contribution to the town of Winkler and his one, even for a man who lived to 106 years old. contribution to medicine and patient care in this He began his career as a physician in Winkler in province was invaluable. 1925, and he would remain in Winkler for the rest of his life. The achievements in his medical I have called Winkler home for many years career are numerous. They include the fo unding now, and I can testify to the tremendous legacy of the Bethel Hospital, the Winkler branch of the Dr. Wiebe has left there. The many generous Association for Retarded Children, the Winkler initiatives he undertook will be appreciated for School fo r Retarded Children and the Valley many years to come. Dr. Wiebe's accomplish­ Rehab Centre. ments are to be found outside the medical profession as well. Beginning in 1929, Dr.

* (1510) Wiebe was a member of the local school board for three decades. From 1932 to 1936, he served I would just like to expand on those. It was the people of Manitoba as a member of the his desire that those children, and in those days Legislative Assembly. they were called "closet children," that they come out of closet, that in fact they would be It should be humbling for all members who recognized as children and truly people who sit in this Chamber today to be in the company could and would be productive and would be of this most extraordinary man. The province is able to accomplish something in this world. It is indeed fortunate to have benefited from the a week ago on Friday that I went to a concert services of Dr. Wiebe, and here again I would where 120 of those people, who have some like to just take an aside, when he was 98 years mental disabilities, gave a Christmas concert and old, he reprimanded some of his colleagues, the they sing wonderfully. They have some local doctors, fo r not having attended some of absolutely astounding talents, and yet though as the medical conferences that were taking place they were at that time, and this was many years in Winnipeg. He in fact asked if he could have a ago when he started the Valley Rehab Centre, ride to Winnipeg when the next conference these were children who were not recognized for would be taking place. He was a lifelong learner, the abilities that they had. and if we could use that term it would be certainly something that we would want to say When it comes to music many of them ofDr. Wiebe. shine, and here again I want to give the example of two elderly ladies who attended Valley It has been said that Cornelius Wiebe was Rehab, and yet though musically the one plays born ahead of his time. His tremendous com­ the guitar, the other the piano, and they will just passion for the handicapped, regardless of the keep on going. They know all the Christmas fact that many of them had been rejected by the carols that are out there, and the way to get them rest of society was a sign of a true philanthropist to stop from performing is to pull the plug on the and pioneer. This last summer, the Governor electric organ and then stop. They do not mind, General of Canada, on his reception of Dr. but they can keep on going. So these were the Wiebe into the Order of Canada, said that talents that Dr. Wiebe saw in people. It was his although Dr. Wiebe was born in the 19th desire that the Valley Rehab be established and Century, he did not have a 19th Century mind. of course as I indicated he was instrumental in His Honour told Dr. Wiebe, and I quote: you doing that. were way ahead of your time in your desire to give education and training opportunities to Further to this, along with four other people with a mental handicap. doctors, he established the Winkler Medical Clinic in 1974. Dr. Wiebe was elected to the Today I would suggest that perhaps Dr. Manitoba College of Physicians and Surgeons Wiebe is still ahead of his time, as our society 506 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 can still learn much from his leadership, his Our family often went to see Dr. Wiebe in dedication and his compassion. I happened to be Winkler. We appreciated the service of the local privileged to be present at the time when he did doctors, but the reputation of Dr. Wiebe was so get the Order of Canada, when he got that award, great that we would travel to Winkler for a and he tried to shrug it off and say, well, it really second opinion. When our family had been to was not something that he deserved. He was Dr. Wiebe, we fe lt we got a definitive answer. very appreciative of it. In talking to him at that Because we had such great trust and faith in Dr. time, he recognized the fact that he had been Wiebe, we then fe lt assured we got the proper around fo r many, many years, but, certainly, he answer. wanted to give recognition to other people who had helped him accomplish so much. I have risen today to speak in this Chamber because my family fe lt that Dr. Wiebe at one With those words, I would like to conclude time saved our father's life, and I would like to by saying again how much Dr. Wiebe meant to share this story that speaks highly of Dr. Wiebe the people of Winkler. The beloved physician with you. I can reca11 my father getting very ill will be long remembered and fo rever loved by in the year 1954. We took him to the local those who have had the good fortune of knowing doctor in Boissevain, and we were not quite him. happy with the results. That evening, our family had a serious discussion about what to do. We On behalf of this Legislature, I want to knew he was very i11 and we decided to take him extend our best to those fam ily members who to Dr. Wiebe in Winkler. Winkler, as I have have survived him and to say thank you to the said, was ISO miles away and much of the way doctor for everything he has done fo r us. Thank there was a gravel road. The roads were quite you. rough, and the maximum speed was about 50 miles per hour, so it was a three-hour trip. Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. A 11 these obstacles did not stand in our way Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to because we had our minds made up that we had express condolences fo r Dr. Cornelius Wiebe. I to get our father to see Dr. Wiebe in Winkler. fe el honoured to speak at this occasion. I realize We did not even make an appointment with Dr. he once sat in this Chamber as an MLA from Wiebe. We just placed our father in the back 1932 to 1936, but I want to pay tribute to him as seat of the car and went to Winkler. We knew a doctor who was well known across Manitoba. Dr. Wiebe would accept him, and we knew he would be placed in a hospital right away. We We all know that Dr. Wiebe lived in then fe lt that our father was in the best medical Winkler and served his community as a doctor care possible. from 1925 to 1978. He was very involved in his community in many ways, but I will be There was a time, as a family, when we fe lt concentrating on his career as a doctor and leave that father might pass away because he had his community contribution to other MLAs from sleeping sickness. However, over several weeks, southern Manitoba. he recovered, returned home. My father lived a long life afterthat. Our fam ily thanks Dr. Wiebe Before I say any more about Dr. Wiebe, fo r the care that he gave our father. We think would like to point out that I grew up on a farm that he was instrumental in restoring his health. five miles north of Boissevain, which is about We pay tribute to this great doctor, who was a 150 miles from Winkler. The question is why servant to a11 the people who came to him fo r would I be interested in paying tribute to Dr. help. Dr. Wiebe was a great doctor because he Wiebe who lived in a community 150 miles was a caregiver who took a deep interest in the away? Well, Dr. Wiebe served our family fo r people he served. many years. His name was often heard in our community, in our home. He was we11 known in So today I have risen in this Chamber to pay many communities across Manitoba, not just tribute on behalf of my family fo r the services Winkler. that Dr. Wiebe provided to our family over the December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 507 many years. We will always remember his great the establishment of such institutions we call work. That is why he was invested with the now as the credit union in Winkler, the co­ Order of Canada in May 1999. operative movement in Winkler. Many of the other foundations that have been established to Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I help people were his true identity. Those of us humbly rise today to put a fe w words on record who have served in his footsteps really as in appreciation for the tremendous service that members of the Legislature, as community Dr. Wiebe gave to this province and indeed to leaders and other aspects, can always point with his country. I think the fam ily of Dr. Wiebe is pride at history and the leadership that Dr. extremely honoured and proud and should be Wiebe demonstrated. honoured and proud of the tremendous service that he provided not only to his community but So to his family today, we say to you we are to the community of humanity at large. Much proud to have been associated with him; we are has been said about his work that he did for proud to have fo llowed in his footsteps in this those who were less able to help themselves and Legislature, and we truly have a deep appreci­ fo r the tremendous appreciation that he had for ation for his service to his community, his educating especially our young and fo r the province and his country. services in the medical area. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to

* (1520) adopt the motion?

But I know Mr. Wiebe in a bit of a different Some Honourable Members: Agreed. sense. When I was elected in 1988, he wrote me a little note and indicated that true leadership Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members was not only earned but in fact had to be please rise and remain standing to indicate their demonstrated. He indicated clearly that com­ support for the motion. munity service had rewards way beyond what could be stated verbally. I think he demon­ A moment of silence was observed. strated that kind of involvement and belief in community by appearing in person at the James Wallace McKenzie Threshermen's Reunion just two years ago when he was I04 years old. He was sitting in his car Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded watching the opening ceremonies, which we by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Filmon), held at that time on a flat deck outside. When I approached him after the ceremonies, he said: THAT this House convey to the family of this is truly what we have to do. We have to James W. McKenzie, who served as a member leave a legacy fo r our young people, for how are of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, its they going to know where they came from if we sincere sympathy in their bereavement and its do not give them that? appreciation of his devotion to duty in a useful life of active community and public service, and He was involved in the ag society. He was that Mr. Speaker be requested to forward a copy involved, although maybe not always personally, of this resolution to the family. but demonstrated that kind of leadership by being there and by participating and by Motion presented. encouraging the establishment of the Thresher­ men's Museum between Morden and Winkler Mr. Doer: James Wallace McKenzie, or as and ensuring that the history that the area and the most of us would know him by, Wally, passed province should be proud of was visible. away in September of this year at the age of 85. I think all of us on the campaign trail at that time He was involved in many, many other stopped and thought about that and were very fu nctions, far too numerous to name, outside of saddened to hear the news. I know that members his medical profession and outside of his opposite were in the same caucus as him, and I involvement in the educational community for have heard stories, upon my election in '86, 508 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 about his oratory skills, his sense of humour, his citizens, carrying on the political legacy of the warmth, his kind of fe isty representation of his McKenzie fam ily. constituents. It is an honour to stand here today, but I was very sad to hear of his passing just a He was selected by former Premier Lyon to few months ago. be the Deputy Speaker in 1977, and one can imagine the criteria for a parliamentarian like Wally, Mr. McKenzie, was elected on June fo rmer Premier Lyon in terms of making those

23, 1966. He was re-elected in '69, '73, ' 77 and decisions. Even though I was not in this '81. That is truly a remarkable political career. Legislative Chamber, I can imagine that this He did not seek re-election in 1986. Twenty selection or this nomination to fu lfill this duty years of elected terms in Manitoba is an was a clear indication of his knowledge of the achievement rarely met by members of this rules and his ability to chair this Chamber, Legislature that have the privilege to serve. He because I know that former Premier Lyon put a did not seek re-election in 1986, and with his high priority on parliamentary democracy, the reputation I know he certainly had the credibility rules of the Legislature and parliamentary of his community to carry on when he made his debate. decision to pass the torch to another member. * (1530) Wally was from Plenty, Saskatchewan. He Mr. Speaker, I know, aWol say, that Wally served in the RCAF from 1941 to 1945. You was well known by members opposite. I know know, I am attending a fu neral tomorrow of an he was well known by our members who served old friend that served in the Second World War, prior to 1986. I am sure some of the more and you are reminded when you read this. the interesting stories wiii be revealed to us today. I material of James Wallace McKenzie, that, every can remember some of them in the media, but I day, people who fought and basically risked think it is safe to say that my experience with their lives so that we can have elections, so that Mr. McKenzie was that he was a gregarious we can have democracy, so that we can have individual, a fr iendly individual, a fe isty freedom of the press, every day, another person individual, one who could make his point with a passes away and another person takes with them sense of humour and one who always the great fight fo r democracy that they risked remembered his constituents. their young lives for years ago. I want to thank James Wallace McKenzie on behalf of his fe llow On behalf of our party, I would like to send citizens and his country fo r serving in the RCAF our condolences to the McKenzie family and during the Second World War. thank the McKenzie fam ily fo r the contributions and sacrifices they made so that Wally could Wally was the director of the Co-op Credit contribute so much over 20 years to our Society of Manitoba. He was a member of the community and contribute so much over his 85 Chamber of Commerce. He was president of the years to Manitoba and Canada. North Central Hockey League, and I do not know whether the member fo r La Verendrye Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official (Mr. Lemieux) was influenced in his early Opposition): Mr. Speaker, it is also a privilege hockey career in the Russell community and that for me on behalf of our party and my colleagues quadrant of the province fr om his volunteer to be able to say a fe w words in remembrance work in that regard. He was an executive and appreciation of the life and service of James member and officer of the Army and Navy Wallace McKenzie. As the Premier (Mr. Doer) Legion in Inglis, Manitoba. has indicated, Wally passed away in the midst of our election campaign this fall. It was a great He was married to Hilda Rose in 1939. He shock and sadness to us. I was up in Swan River had three children, Donna, Judith Anne and at the time, and his son Glenn, the mayor up Glenn, and, of course, we know Glenn is the there, was not there because he was with the mayor now of Swan River and a person who is fam ily. We were all very saddened by it. I had dedicated to his community and his fe llow sent him greetings and congratulations on the December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 509 occasion of his 85th birthday back in June, so we with giants by being elected as early as I did in were very sorry not to be able to be there at the 1979 and being there at the end of some of the funeral of somebody that we all very much eras, people like the two Sauls, Miller and appreciated and admired. Chemiack, and Bud Boyce and Morris McGregor and so on. Well, Wally was one of His legal name was James Wallace those. He could stand up on the spur of the McKenzie. I only knew him as Wally or moment and speak on any issue with great Warfield. I assumed that that nickname was clarity and great conviction and add to the because of Wallis Warfield Simpson, the wife of debate very strongly in this House. Wally also, King Edward VIII, but Warfield was what he of course, added to the fun quotient in this was often referred to within our caucus. He was House at all times. absolutely a gentleman, a gregarious, fr iendly, warm, outgoing individual whose face always In those days we sat three evenings a week had a perpetual smile and a very strong and there was firstly the old St. Charles crowd, handshake. the St. Charles Hotel crowd who had essentially bunked together. People from all parties, Wally was somebody who had lived life Liberals, New Democrats and Conservatives, with people, and he was part of the group that from out of the city lived at the St. Charles Duff Roblin tried to surround himself with. Hotel, and there was a very great camaraderie. Duff, when I sought his advice about how you The Premier (Mr. Doer) refers to the views of seek a person to run as your candidate, he said those who served with Wally from his party. you go to the community and you find the most Indeed many of them knew Wally as a friend popular individual in the community, and it does because they all lived at the St. Charles Hotel not matter what their politics are, you convince and there were many social events. In those them to run for your party. days of course, with sitting evenings, there was always the question of whether or not you had After Wally served in the grain industry in enough time to go home for dinner or whether or Inglis and those of you who know Inglis know not you would stay down and have dinner and that it is the grain industry, all elevators, grain with whom you would have dinner. elevators there. Regrettably none of them are fu nctioning any longer and they have been In our caucus, by the late '70s, many of the named a heritage site because of all of these rural members now had apartments in the grain elevators lined up in this small community. surrounding area to this Legislature, and being But Wally stepped aside from the grain industry the generous spirited people they were and the and started a general store and as the general very hospitable people they were, would always storekeeper he knew everybody in the com­ find a reason to invite somebody over and it munity, and everybody liked Wally and so he might be that Henry Einarson had brought in was a natural fo r Duff to recruit as a candidate some chickens or that somebody else had for his party. brought in some venison if it were the fall. But Certainly there are many, many stories and the other occasion always seemed to be that it they are all happy stories about Wally. Even was Wally McKenzie's birthday, so we had to during the time that I was running against his have a get-together. I can always remember as a son-in-law for the leadership of our party, Wally rookie member of caucus thinking to myself, oh, remained absolutely friendly, always had a kind gosh, well, that is a great idea. I will phone word and a smile on his face. In the days after Janice and tell her I will not be home for dinner he was out of this Legislature, he would show up because we are celebrating Wally's birthday. at events in Russell or Roblin or Inglis with a Well, she caught on before I did that Wally's smile on his face asking where is Janice or how birthday seemed to come up with great rapidity is Janice doing, and it was just a wonderful, and she said, well, it certainly is not a year since wonderful experience to be in his presence. the last time you celebrated Wally's birthday. I finally figured out that Wally's birthday was a I referred in my remarks to the throne proxy for getting together and having a speech earlier about feeling that I had served celebration, and it did happen more than once a 510 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 year I am afraid to say, but it was always terrific The other aspect of Wally was that he loved and that was the signal that we would get to sing. In those days we had a number of together over dinner somewhere at one of the talented musicians within the caucus. Certainly apartments downtown. my colleague, who I know will want to add to the discussion on this motion, the member for The other thing, of course, and you see it in Lakeside (Mr. Enns), was one who, like myself, Wally's biography, he played and coached sang with Wally at caucus get-togethers, but baseball and hockey. I can recall Wally, at 70 Wally was a musician. Wally had played in a years of age, playing with us in a game against dance band, in fact many dance bands, I the media and playing very, very well. Wally understand, in the Russell area fo r many years was still a very able ballplayer. I was told that and entertained with his double-bass violin at he was a semipro in his day. Certainly I believe personal care homes even later on after his time that by his skill with the bat at 70 years of age. in public office. It was a sight to see. He still laced on the skates, they tell me, well into his later years, involved in Certainly Wally's fam ily has much of which so many diffe rent things. to be proud. They have a tremendous legacy of public service. I want to, on behalf of Janice and our fam ily and all of the people who have The Premier (Mr. Doer) has mentioned the admired and worked with Wally over the years, Legion. He was very, very proud of his service offe r our condolences to the family but also our in the air force. He was a member of the Lion's congratulations on the legacy that he has left of Club, and he received an award for humanitarian great service to this province and great service from that organization, honorary life contributions to this province. To Pat, to Judy member of both the fe deral and provincial and to Glenn, to the nine grandchildren and five Progressive Conservative parties. I was very great-grandchildren, we extend to them certainly pleased to be a part of the ceremony at which he our best wishes in the celebration of a life of was installed an honorary life member of our service and devotion to the province of provincial party. Manitoba.

One other story that I had almost fo rgotten Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, was in this House. We are not allowed exhibits, I, too, am honoured to rise this afternoon to add Mr. Speaker. The member for Thompson (Mr. a fe w words in the celebration of Wally Ashton) recalls this. We were in opposition, and McKenzie's life and to add a fe w words in the Wally got word from some people that, well, motion of condolence to his fam ily in the recent firstly, he happened to notice that there were passing of Wally. pigeons dead around the building, and that seemed to happen regularly. Wally sleuthed out Wally was my first call when the election the reason why. Of course, Government was called in August. My wife and I decided Services, in their wisdom, had fo und that there that we would begin our campaign by visiting was just too much mess around the building. our former MLAs in our area. As members The easiest way to clean it up was to get rid of know, Wally McKenzie and Harry Graham were the pigeons. The easiest way to get rid of the both still living in our communities. Wally was pigeons was to poison them. The minister got our first call on that particular afternoon. Wally up and denied it. The next day Wally came in, and Hilda had just celebrated their 60th repeated the question, and reached under his anniversary and Wally had celebrated his 85th desk and pulled out of a brown-paper bag a dead birthday just a fe w months before that. pigeon. The House erupted, of course. It made Although Wally was suffering from some the six o'clock news. The Speaker ruled him out illness, he still was very much interested in what of order, but Wally made his point. That was was going on in the campaign and indeed in how Wally. He had so many different ways in which our province was progressing. he contributed to life in this province. Through the years that I represented our * (1540) communities, I have to say that Wally was not December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 511 only a mentor but a great teacher in the ways in bass guitar or the bass violin that he used to take which an MLA should and could represent his or with him wherever he went it seemed. He told her constituency. As members have said, as the me later-he said: You do not know how many Premier (Mr. Doer) has said and the Leader, votes this bass violin was able to get for me Wally was a long-time resident of the through the election campaigns. Because he community of Inglis. He and his wife, Hilda, would even take it with him during the campaign moved to the Inglis community shortly afterthey and in the evenings he would pull it out and get were married where Wally undertook to operate together with some folks and strike up a tune or and to manage the Reliant company grain two. It just got people together. Christmastime elevator at the time. It is still one of the or times of holidays, Wally would often find elevators that is standing in the community and himself in the midst of some senior citizens with has been designated as a heritage elevator. Just his bass violin, singing and playing this bass this past summer, there was a bit of a box lunch violin. When I became the MLA for the area, and a picnic next to the elevators, and the paint one of the first questions that was thrown at me had come off the one elevator. It had not been when I came to visit some seniors was, well, restored yet, and you could see the Reliant name what instrument do you play? Wally played the on the elevator underneath the paint that had bass violin, so what instrument do you play? As come off, and we had a bit of a conversation it happens, I do play a guitar and I do sing a about Wally's years as he operated and managed little, so I have done that a few times at some of the Reliant grain elevator. the senior citizens homes. But indeed many of our people in our Wally and Hilda became known in the community are going to remember Wally for a community very quickly because of their long time because of the tremendous contri­ tremendous participation in all aspects of the butions that he made to his constituents. Wally community life. As has been said, Wally was continually advocating for his constituents. participated not only in sports but in all avenues I remember times when people would talk about of community life. He belonged to the com­ the fact that Wally would try so desperately to munity organizations, the Lion's Club and many do something for a constituent and, if he was not other smaller organizations within that com­ able to do it through the legislative process or munity as well as his church. Both he and his through lobbying ministers, Wally would try to wife contributed very much to the community. help the family, if they were in financial As their children came along, their children difficulty or if they were experiencing some learned that community life was important and difficulties in a personal way. Christmastime they too contributed. would often find Wally delivering hampers to fam ilies that did not have as much as perhaps he Wally loved sports and was an athlete to be did. He wanted to make sure that they enjoyed contended with, whether it was in baseball or in their Christmas season as well, a very generous hockey. As a young man, I am told, there were man, generous to his family, generous to his very fe w people who could indeed compete with community. the skills of Wally, whether it was in baseball or in hockey. But he went on, after participating Indeed today I want to simply express our actively himself, to coach many young people in condolences and appreciation to his family, to our communities, not only in the community of his daughters and his son, for a life that was Inglis but in Roblin and in Russell, and soon the lived in dedication to a community, dedication to entire area came to know Wally as a man who the province and indeed to the country. I know not only loved sport but loved people, loved that his family are very proud of the young people and helped to develop their skills contributions that Wally made to this province in sports and in community life. and to his community. Indeed all of us will remember Wally for many years very fondly for When Wally was elected in 1966, it was no his contribution here in Manitoba. Thank you. surprise to the communities that he represented because he was so well known in the area. We Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Highways and talk about his love for music as well, and the Government Services): Mr. Speaker, I also 512 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 want to put a few words on the record in terms tail end of an era when I, as a new member, of my recollections of Wally McKenzie. It is getting elected did not realize the seasonal nature interesting, because until today I did not know of being an MLA in those days. We had no that Wally McKenzie had any other name than travel allowance out of session. It was assumed Wally. that we would sit. Usually we would sit until we dropped, you know, speed-up and then we would *(1550) go back to our communities and then returnfo r a sitting. That did create an entirely diffe rent I sort of recall listening to some of the atmosphere in this Legislature. comments that have been made that he was really larger than life to begin with anyway. I It is fu nny. I pushed in our caucus and I think anybody who sat in this House will know as Opposition House Leader fo r 10 years, remember his many contributions in debate that every chance I could get I wanted to reduce have been alluded to. Reference has been made those evening sittings but, you know, with that already to what I tried to use as a precedent as sanity that came with fe wer evening sittings, we House Leader on a couple of occasions. I used lost the sort of social atmosphere of this to call it the Wally McKenzie dead-pigeon Chamber. I think that it really was an important precedent, but it did not work. part of the life of many people, especially from rural and northernManitoba. What I think the Premier (Mr. Doer) sort of pointed to too is that when he did it, the way he What I also am struck by too, by the way, as did it. I still remember him reaching into his look back on that period when I think of desk, and of course you do not know if some­ Wally's participation in the House is that it was a body is going to pull out a note or something, pretty controversial period. You know, we had and out came this dead pigeon. Being a Monty the French language issue, the bells rang fo r a Python fan, I kept waiting fo r a few comments period of time. I remember, as a new govern­ from Wally, and he could have probably ment member, the Government House Leader delivered it very well, sort of, this pigeon is having the brilliant idea of coming in December, dead. He had such a flourish. The fu nny part and this was somehow going to result in the was I still remember the grin on his face when session being speeded up somewhat. We sat in he did it, because the whole House erupted. The December of 1982, and we were still sitting in Government House Leader was standing up on a 1984, but you know what was interesting despite point of order, and he was just smiling. the heat of the debate that took place at the time on that issue, I still recall the fact that at every He had made his point, and it will go down session end, there was a tradition of members without precedent in Manitoba parliamentary visiting each other's caucuses, any of the heat of history. In fact, he tabled it. That is the other debate was put aside. thing that should be pointed out. He tabled the dead pigeon. I suppose that raises the question, I still remember going to the Conservative because I assume when documents or items are caucus, along with many colleagues and joining tabled that we keep them somewhere in the the musical singsongs. I can still sort of picture Legislature, I am not sure where that pigeon is the many players in the orchestra, ArnoldBr own right now. Maybe it has been stuffed. I am and Wally McKenzie being leaders in the band, wondering if Binx Remnant, upon retirement and the member fo r Lakeside (Mr. Enns) was a here, is actually going to take that as a souvenir strong participant as well. I remember members from his time here. of the press gallery there. What I am struck on, as I hear the comments today, is in many ways I But you know, that was very much the style think it came from a generation that went of the times. I think it is hard fo r new members through the war, knew all too well the sacrifices to sort of recognize probably the style of of war and perhaps taught those of us of a legislative proceedings we had in those days. younger generation about the joy of life. When I The former Premier alluded to the fact that we think of Wally McKenzie, it is probably had three evening sittings. We are right at the something I did not see in his larger-than-life December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 513 approach to politics. It was probably very much known in his constituency that anybody from the a part of his experience, so I remember him Russell area or the English area that needed a fondly. ride home just had to be at the St. Regis at around four o'clock or three o'clock on a Friday I will remember far more than just that one afternoon, and he would get a ride home. I do particular incident. I remember his participation not think that Wally drove home very often in the debates but also the fact that he, as strong without taking a constituent with him. as he would get in debates-and believe you me, he, like most members at the time, particularly Looking at my friend from La Verendrye, rural and northern members, I think it was a real you are right, Mr. Premier (Mr. Doer), Graham tradition and still is in some ways, a strong and McKenzie, they formed a pretty formidable representation of constituency-! do not defence unit on our hockey team that we had fun remember him saying an unkind word about with. It was an all-party team, by the way. We anyone after the debate was over. I think in a took on the city fathers, Steve Juba in the net, way that summed up his careers, a variety of and Steve Patrick of the Liberal Party was our areas of public service, a very important part of coach. You can imagine Warner Jorgensen and this Legislature. I know he will be missed by Sid Green on the same forward line. It was everyone that knew him. exciting. But Harry Graham and Wally Mackenzie made a formidable duo on the Mr. Harry Enns (Lakeside): I counted among defence fo r the members of the Legislative the privileges of my life to have come into this Assembly hockey team. Chamber at the same time as one James Wallace McKenzie on June of '66, and I too want to add Well, Mr. Speaker, to the family that I know my fe w words of condolences and appreciation well, the memory of Wally McKenzie is very fo r the life of Wally McKenzie. strong with me. He was a personal friend of mine. It was the Premier's call, as it always is, I agree with everything that has been said that takes one person into cabinet and leaves with one small correction, Mr. Leader. It was somebody else not in cabinet. It was my good the St. Regis Hotel and not the St. Charles. fortune to be brought into the Duff Roblin Indeed Wally, it could be said, was a charter cabinet immediately after that election, but I can member of the St. Regis Racing and Chowder honestly say and I think if Mr. McKenzie were Club that met on occasion Friday afternoons. with us today he would say that that never We were not sitting and some very important interfered with the enjoyment that we both had caucus decisions were arrived at on those in serving our respective constituencies and in occasions, but I and the Minister of Highways serving the people of Manitoba to the best of our alluded to it just briefly. It was a different era ability. and one has to appreciate it. We have much more generously looked to the needs of MLAs today One other thing I might say, Mr. McKenzie than we had then. We had no members' had, obviously with that record of 20 years of allowances, we had no constituency offices. We public service, a keen nose for things that were were 22, 23, 21 members in opposition with the happening. I can recall him being the only one services of one receptionist-secretary and perhaps as we were moving toward the '69 everything. election who held up the warning bells. We were focused on the Liberal Party and their What I remember most about Wally newly elected Leader who were the Official McKenzie was no matter how serious the enjoy­ Opposition at that time with some 14 members, ment of the evening last was, he was at the desk but Wally would remind us, watch the New in the caucus room writing out long letters to his Democrats, they are coming, and come they did constituents. He was a model for looking after in '69 to form the government. his constituents. There was not a request from a constituent that he did not personally respond to. But those are some memories that I have of As I say, this was prior to the days that we had my dear friend Wally McKenzie. God bless him the resources that we today have. It was also and our thoughts are with the family. Thank you. 514 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

* (1600) same personal manner as he did when he was an MLA fo r which he gained so many high marks. Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): It is my pleasure to rise today to put a fe w comments Mr. Speaker, the last time that I had the on the record in honour of Mr. Wally McKenzie. opportunity to talk with Mr. McKenzie was in A friend of mine who taught school with me August of 1998 at the Roblin parade. The always said that the measuring stick that he used member fo r Swan River and myself participated to judge a success was what his students said in that parade. As we were talking to people I about him down the road. Would they have kind heard somebody yell, called us over, and there things to say about his performance as a teacher, was Wally McKenzie sitting on the back of a or would they have bad memories? flatbed truck. What I noticed first of all was the big smile on his face but also he had on his lap a Well, I took that same theory and applied it fiddle and an accordion. He was laughing and to conversations that I have had with some of my saying that he-I think he was kind of goading us new constituents in the Roblin-San Clara-Boggy to try to guess which of the instruments he was Creek area and had opportunities recently to going to play during the parade. You could just speak with them about Mr. Wally McKenzie. tell that he was having a lot of fu n. He was still Mr. Speaker, Mr. McKenzie passes with flying interacting with his constituents and he was colours the test when it comes to having served providing everybody who cared to come and his constituents. I heard nothing but positive visit with Wally with a little bit of brightness and comments from his former constituents whom he some good cheer that afternoon. I did note that represented for nearly 20 years in this as they took off in fr ont of us in the parade that it Legislature. was the fiddlethat he pulled out and was playing and participating in and just having a good time. One of the comments that was repeated over and over was that Wally knew everyone. There I want to, on behalf of the constituents of the was not a time in a person's life when Mr. Roblin area, express our condolences to the McKenzie would not have sent a note or a card, fam ily and also to say thank you to Wally for whether it was a happy note on a wedding or a representing the people of the Roblin area so sadder note at the time of a fu neral in the fam ily. capably fo r all those years here in the Wally McKenzie was always there fo r his Legislature. I want to thank his wife and his constituents. fam ily fo r standing with Wally and being able to represent so well the people ofthe Parklands but His former constituents whom I now have also Manitobans. Thank you very much, Mr. the pleasure of representing told me that I could Speaker. use Wally McKenzie as a role model in the way to treat constituents. They would go on to say that any of us in this Legislature today could use Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, Mr. McKenzie as a perfectly good role model in I would like to add the condolences on behalf of how to serve your riding and how to serve the not only myself and my fam ily but on behalf of people whom your represent. They note that the constituents of Ste. Rose. I only knew Wally Wally had that personal touch that everybody briefly duringhis tenure in the House, but I have enjoyed so much. to say that one of the things that he implemented was unique and interesting. He was one of the I would put forth, Mr. Speaker, that whether fe w individuals who was elected as an MLA it was when Wally McKenzie was a trustee for who used to put an ad in the paper advertising the Inglis school district or whether it was when his phone number and encouraging people to call he was a town councillor or a director fo r the him if they had a concern. I must admit that Manitoba Chamber of Commerce or whether it there were quite a few MLAs, including myself, was when he was president of the North-Central who have since picked up that small but I think Hockey League, as was mentioned earlier, or significant demonstration of the dedication that whether it was his membership in the Russell Wally fe lt towards representing the people of his and Inglis legion, Mr. McKenzie operated in the constituency. December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 515

I wish to share my condolences and thank request to serve or run in the 1949 election. He his family for the many years of public service subsequently ran and was successful in 1949 as a that he put in. member of the Progressive Coalition, I guess, at that time. I am not exactly sure of the title, but I Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I just rise think the Progressive Coalition, and then he ran briefly, representing the people of River Heights again and was successful in 1953 as an and the people of the Liberal Party, to extend my Independent Liberal Progressive and ran again in condolences. Wally McKenzie was not an 1958 and was defeated in May of 1959. individual who I knew personally but clearly he has a very considerable record as a politician and He was a member of the cabinet having a contribution to his constituency. I extend served as the Minister of Health and Public condolences on behalf of the people of my Works, and he also served as a member of the constituency and the Liberal Party. Executive Council in the position of Minister of Education. Many people in Manitoba will know Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to him as the Leader of the Liberal Party. He was adopt this motion? selected as Leader by his party in 1969. It is certainly something I can recall when I was in Some Honourable Members: Agreed. school fo llowing politics in Manitoba. I was just shortly leaving school at that point, but he was Mr. Speaker: Will honourable members please elected in 1969. He ran against, as I understand rise and remain standing to indicate their support it, the present member fo r Lakeside (Mr. Enns) fo r the motion. in that election in 1969 and was unsuccessful as the Leader of the Liberal Party, but certainly it A moment of silence was observed. indicates a very, very successful political career when your own colleagues and your own peers Robert William Bend select you to be the Leader, to carry the platform forward to the people of Manitoba and the Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I move, seconded policies forward as he did in the 1969 election by the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), campaign. THAT this House convey to the fam ily of So there is no question that he had a the late Robert W. Bend, who served as a successful political career in this Legislature, a member of the Legislative Assembly of career that spanned 10 years and included Manitoba, its sincere sympathy in their Executive Council positions. As the honourable bereavement and its appreciation of his devotion Leader of the Opposition has pointed out before, to duty and a useful life of active community and a limited number of some 500 people have had public service and that the Speaker be requested that honour over the history of Manitoba, and so to forward a copy of this resolution to the he was obviously an individual that had the family. respect of his Leader to carry on the duties and Motion presented. responsibilities in his elected political career.

Mr. Doer: Robert William "Bobby" Bend was * (1610) an individual who had a long political career, a longer educational career and a lifelong interest Mr. Bend or Bobby was and still is well and dedication to sports. I, of course, want to known as an educator. He was an educator. He start with his political contributions to Manitoba is well known as an educator. He taught fo r 24 and this Legislature. He was elected in 1949 to years. He was a principal of many schools: East this Legislature and, as I understand it, he Poplar Point, I think it is East Poplar Point, originally rejected the idea of running for Tilston Consolidated High School, Teulon, political life when he was recruited. Then he Stonewall, Sisler, West Kildonan and Victory went back to his classroom and spoke of the School, and he was honoured with the Ed Brown virtues of public service and realized what a memorial award for his contributions to contradiction this was for him to be rejecting the education in Manitoba. 516 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, I999

In I98I, in recognition of his contributions butions to the Executive Council officeshe held, to education, Bobby Bend was awarded the fo r his contributions to the Liberal Party where honour of having the Stonewall East School he was leader, fo r his contributions to education renamed to the R. W. Bobby Bend Elementary and fo r his contributions to sports and the quality School in that community. of life in Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker, he was also very, very Mr. Gary Filmon (Leader of the Official involved in sports. Bobby was interested in Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise hockey. He, along with Bryan Hextall, went on along with the Premier (Mr. Doer), on behalf of to National Hockey League fame. Bryan Hextall, my colleagues, to pay tribute to Bobby Bend. who went on to the National Hockey League Although his legal name is Robert William fame, played in his hometown of Popular Point, Bend, he was known, I think, to everyone as and they won the national championship. Bobby Bobby Bend. played for the Portage Terriers, the Winnipeg Monarch Junior Hockey team and went on to I must say that I was very much aware of help the senior Winnipeg Falcons win the who he was as a person growing up in the '40s Manitoba championship in '35 and '36 and the and '50s in Winnipeg. He, by the late '50s, of Canadian Packers championship in '36-37. course, had sat fo r almost I0 years in this Bobby was scouted by the Red Wings and he Legislature with the tremendous honour of moved up to the minor professional ranks. How­ serving in cabinet as Minister of Health and ever, on the advice of his mother, who told him Welfare and Minister of Education. Lo and unless he could make the NHL, he should get an behold, when Sisler High School opened in the education instead. He opted to remain an fall of 1958-sorry, it opened in the fall of '57, amateur and his younger brother, Lin, went on to but when I got into Grade II in the fall of '58, become an NHL star. Bobby Bend had just lost his cabinet seat because of the provincial election of that year. He played a lot of baseball. I have certainly In those days, as has been referred to in the heard of his baseball reputation in Manitoba. He previous discussion, being a member of the was one of the province's outstanding teachers of Legislature was not a fu ll-time occupation. So baseball. Apparently, he was at home umpiring Bobby Bend came to Sisler High School as the a baseball game as he was occupying a front-row Grade 11 physics teacher, and he was my seat in the Legislature. His contributions to base­ physics teacher in Grade 11. ball in Manitoba were fo rmerly recognized when he was inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall We were all enthralled by Bobby Bend. He of Fame. had this raspy voice and this great ability to speak with great knowledge on a whole variety Bobby Bend was a person that had made of issues. Although we were supposed to be many memorable comments over his political learning physics, it seemed to me that we learned career, but he always remembered where he a lot more about politics and public service than came from-his community, his profession of we did about physics. We learned a lot from education, his love of sports. One quote that I Bobby Bend. He was an absolutely fascinating found interesting for the record when he was the teacher, the kind that you dream about having. Minister of Health, he said: Being a cabinet minister and teaching are something in the same; A lot of things are coming together for me in both positions, you are performing a public here now as I read about Bobby in the obituary service and there is an inner satisfaction in that. and the biographical notes. I did not realize that he was first elected as a Progressive Con­ Mr. Speaker, on behalf of our party, I would servative. That probably speaks to the fact that I like to wish his wife, Kay, their sons, Jack, Jim identified with his politics in those days, even and Robert, and their five grandchildren, our though he was technically a Liberal. It also sincerest condolences. I would also like to thank, refers here to various things about him being a on behalf of our party, Bobby Bend fo r his con­ baseball umpire. I wondered about that strong, tributions to this Legislature, fo r his contri- raspy voice that he had, and I guess that was part December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 517 of it for calling people out on balls and strikes was very much an influence in all aspects, which and all of those things. is why he was inducted to the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame, because of his many, many He was a wonderful individual, even though, contributions in the fieldof sport. as I say, he seemed to exercise some influence on the choice of speakers to our graduating class. It has been said earlier that he was given the We had as the person who spoke to our Ed Brown memorial award for his lifelong graduation that year Ron Turner, who was the contributions to education in our province. He former Minister of Finance in the Campbell certainly remained active in his church in the government. We had Graeme Garson speak to community, the Anglican Church. He was our graduating class, who at that time was I always a person interested in the community. I believe the executive director of the Liberal believe that he used to write for the community Party in Manitoba. newspaper in his retirement years. That was one of the reasons why he showed up on a number of Bobby probably had some influence on occasions at things that the government was those choices, but they were good speakers. doing in the area. So this was a person of They were very, very significant people in that tremendous substance, a person of tremendous era. I will say that Bobby Bend continued to talent and ability who contributed in so many have a strong presence in that Teulon­ ways to our community and our province's Rockwood-Stonewall area throughout the period history. that I have been involved in public life. When­ ever I would be in that area, I often saw Bobby So it is a privilege to be able to speak in this at public events. I remember him being at a Legislature about the life and service of Bobby summer fair in Teulon, coffe e and conversations Bend. It is a privilege for me to express con­ that we used to hold as caucus or cabinet in the dolences and to celebrate a life of devotion to the area, and he was at, I am almost certain, the 25th community and to the province, and to be able to anniversary celebration of the member for express all of this to his widow, Kay, to his sons, Lakeside. Every time that we met I was always Jack, Jim and Rob. Rob is with us in the gallery. very happy to see Bobby, and I think he was He is the principal of Crocus Plains Regional happy to see me. School in Brandon and is part of the legacy of Bobby Bend in education and somebody who *(1620) has contributed mightily to education in our In fact, a year ago last spring, we had the province himself. grand opening of the expansion to the elemen­ tary R.W. Bobby Bend School in Stonewall. I So I offe r those words as words of praise specifically asked the Minister of Education if I and celebration for one who has served in so could go with her to be part of the program many ways in the best traditions of our province. because I had hoped to see Bobby there and to suitably pay tribute to him for all of his Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. contributions to public life, not only in this Speaker, I rise to join my colleagues, the Legislature but in education, where he not only Premier (Mr. Doer) and the Leader of the taught for 24 years, but he was a principal. He Opposition (Mr. Filmon), in a salute to Bobby was ultimately a superintendent and, of course, Bend who was the Leader of the Liberal Party in served as Minister of Education in this House. 1969, a salute to a man who made - major contributions in numerous areas to the life and I think that all of this is to say that Bobby the well-being of Manitoba. Bend was another one of those very significant people in the history of this Legislature and the As an athlete, hockey player, a baseball history of this province. His influence was all­ player, and as an umpire, Bobby Bend is remem­ pervasive in so many areas of public life, in bered fondly by many. His contributions to sports, as not only an athlete himself but a coach Manitoba were recognized in this area when he and an official who contributed well beyond the was inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of perfunctory aspect of just playing the sport. He Fame in 1996. 518 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

As a teacher, Bobby Bend taught school in has made to Manitoba, to the family, to friends. various parts of Manitoba, being in tum a What a contribution Bobby Bend made. We are teacher, a principal, superintendent, a special thankful fo r that. Thank you. assistant to the Deputy Minister of Education, and from June 9 to June 30 in 1958, the Minister Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I of Education. These contributions and his special have two special reasons fo r wishing to be ability to talk to and relate to young people, to associated with this condolence motion. It was recognize the importance of discipline but the my privilege, as I indicated just a few moments importance of inspiration, whether it be in ago, to be first elected from the constituency of physics or in other areas. These contributions to Rockwood-Iberville, the same constituency that education were recognized with the Ed Brown Mr. Bend served fo r those 10 years. Then in '69, memorial award and, of course, by the naming Rockwood-Iberville merged with the Lakeside of the school in Stonewall as the Bobby Bend constituency, then held by the former leader and School. long-time Premier, the longest-serving MLA in the commonwealth history, Mr. D.L. Campbell, In politics, Bobby Bend was first elected in of course, the Premier that Mr. Bend had served 1949 for Rockwood, re-elected in 1953 and 1958 under in cabinet in both health and in education. for the Liberal Party in Rockwood-Iberville. He served as Minister of Health during a rather I was still very much a rookie MLA important time for health care in Manitoba from watching with some fascination as the politics of 1955 to '58. It was a period when the polio this played out within the Liberal Party as to vaccinewas just becoming widely available, and who would be running in Lakeside, Mr. there was a real transformation from the world Campbell or the then newly elected leader, Mr. before where polio was only treatable with the Bend. It is a question that I often ask myself. iron lung to the point where polio was Would I have been here today if Mr. Campbell preventable with a vaccine. had not chosen to at that point in time to step down, not to say that in any derogatory way of I think it is fitting that Bobby Bend was Mr. Bend, but Mr. Campbell was and continues Minister of Health at that time, given the to be a legend in this Chamber here. importance of investing in prevention in health care, as opposed to just trying to treat the very, * (1630) very difficultdiso rders because clearly when one can invest in prevention with the vaccine, one Mr. Bend succeeded to the leadership of the has a tremendous potential not only to save lives Liberal Party and very shortly thereafter we and to decrease sickness but to decrease costs, so engaged in a general election in which, I a period as Health minister at a very, very confess, was the most tightly contested election important time for Manitoba and making a that I fa ced in my political career. It was an significant contribution during this period. honourable race. I recall very well on the evening of the election Mr. Bend, doing me the Following his defeat in 1969, Bobby Bend courtesy and the honour of calling me at my continued to have a very active interest in campaign headquarters and indicating his politics. I remember as I was campaigning in acceptance of the will of the electors of Lake­ 1993 to be a member of Parliament in Portage­ side, and that is how I have these two associ­ Interlake, I visited Bobby Bend. We had a long ations with Mr. Bend in a very real and a very chat then and chatted on a number of occasions political sense both as a fo rmer representative of since then, keeping in contact with somebody Rockwood-Iberville and in the '69 election who was a very important public figure for where we squared off against each other. many, many years in Manitoba. I think it speaks volumes fo r Mr. Bend and So on behalf of my party, the Liberal Party, his reputation and his contribution that right to the constituents in River Heights, I want to say his last days his constituents, his people in condolences but also a tremendous recognition Stonewall who particularly held him in such of the life and the contribution that Bobby Bend high regard, does not always fo llow that December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 519 particularly after the hurly-burly of politics that better known as Bobby Bend, who was once an one has remembered in such a way. Mr. Bend MLA and a cabinet minister in this Chamber. I certainly enjoyed that reputation. I enjoyed fe el honoured to be given this opportunity to running into him and meeting him at different speak here today. I personally learned about occasions, sometimes just at the coffee shop in Bobby Bend as a guest speaker at sports and Stonewall where we would sometimes meet at education events, but before I say much more the kind of regular coffee break that he in his about Bobby Bend, I would like to say a few senior years would enjoy with other residents in words about his family. Some of the infor­ the Stonewall area. mation about his family was given to me by his niece, Bobbie Janaway, in a recent interview, Others have mentioned about his many, and I thank her for this. many facets of his active life in sports and in teaching and in politics. I got the impression in I also had the opportunity to speak to his speaking to him that his tenure as Health son, Bobby Bend, Jr., I might say, who gave me minister-! am not taking anything away from his some information about his father. As already province-wide reputation as an educator, but he pointed out, his son is in the gallery here today. really fe lt his contribution in the Health portfolio The Bend family originally Jived in Poplar Point was one that was extremely important to him. which is a small town, about 300 people, near The Leader of the Liberal Party alluded to it. Portage Ia Prairie. Poplar Point is a sports­ These were momentous changes taking place. minded town that produced NHL hockey players These were days prior to the universal medicare such as Hextalls and the Bends. Bobby Bend system that we now all enjoy, where I know himself came from a very sports-minded family. families-and I know of individual families who His father, J.P. Bend, instilled sports in all three faced the kinds of hardships that in pre medicare of his children. Bobby Bend had a sister Olive and pre health care days families were subjected who played fastball or baseball for a team named to-would and did prevail on him personally as the Rockford Peaches in the all-American girls' the minister, or as the MLA for the area, to baseball league. Olive was the pitcher as the receive the kind of support when in many Rockford Peaches won the world championship instances funds or resources were not available in 1945. Olive Bend, whose married name is to that particular family. I run into those kinds Olive Little, is inducted into the Manitoba Sports of families who remember Mr. Bend for that Hall of Fame and also inducted into the Baseball reason, for the help that he provided to a Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, U.S.A. member of their family, for advice that he gave to a fam ily in need. Bobby Bend also had a brother, Lin Bend, who played in the NHL for the New York For these reasons, the Bend name will long Rangers and had a great hockey career. Bobby resonate in the constituency of Lakeside. I Bend himself was very sports-minded. He took consider it a privilege and honour to be the great interest in all sports. Baseball and hockey current MLA fo r Lakeside and to have had were probably his greatest interests. He is people like Mr. Bend run against me, be part of known as an excellent hockey player and as an that part of the province to represent the people umpire across Manitoba. I am told that as an of Rockwood and Rosser and Stonewall and umpire, he had complete control of the game. Teulon in this association. It is something that I Any ballplayer as much as gave him a dirty look constantly am aware of myself as I try to would probably find himself watching the game conduct myself in a similar fashion to live up to from the stands. As a result of his great interest the kind of representation that the people of in baseball, he has been inducted into the Rockwood-Iberville, of Lakeside, have had the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame, which is privilege of receiving from their past MLAs. located in Morden, Manitoba. His induction into My condolences to the family. God bless. the Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame recognizes his great contribution to the game of baseball. Mr. Harry Schellenberg (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to The Bend fam ily has made a great contri­ express condolences for Robert W. Bend who is bution to sports in Manitoba. Bobby Bend 520 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

believed the lessons learned in sports could be thought he was a minister. I was informed he used in everyday life. was not a minister, but a religious person who was very well involved, very much involved in Education is another area where Bobby the Anglican Church. Bend made a great contribution. I would like to say a few words about this. As has already been * (1640) pointed out, Bobby was a teacher, principal, superintendent and Education minister. The Bend family home is in Stonewall, where his wife, Kay Bend, still lives. Bobby had I first heard him speak at a teachers three sons. His oldest son Jack Bend is a convention in Carman in the early 1960s where scientist at the London hospital in Ontario. Jim he was the after-dinner speaker. I was a young Bend is a businessman in Calgary, and the teacher at the time, like many other teachers youngest son, Bobby Bend Jr., is a school present, and we were all inspired by his speech. principal in Brandon. Bobby Bend Jr. has told We all sat at the edge of our chairs taking in me personally it was his father's influence that every word. You could have heard a pin drop in persuaded him to go into education. that room. He had our fu ll attention. The late Bobby Bend instilled strong values Although I have heard this speech more than in all three of his sons that he lived and practised 35 years ago, I remember it very well. We were all his life. All his sons have a great interest in all touched by the speech, because he had sports and education. Bobby Bend was very certainly challenged us to continue our work as much appreciated as an educator and for his young teachers in the classroom. involvement in the community, but at the same time he did not fo rget his family. If you drive I am speaking in this Chamber today as a through Stonewall today, where the Bend fam ily result of that speech many years ago. The thesis has always lived, you will see a school named in of that speech was that a teacher was more than his honour fo r the contribution to education and an instructor, but a mentor, a counsellor, an his work in the community. The school named adviser to students. in his honour is a memorial to the late Bobby Bend, who served the people of his community At the end of his speech he told us, if you do very well. Thank you. not like teaching, get out, it will be better fo r everyone. I remember that very clearly. Bobby Mr. (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, I Bend was very pragmatic. He strongly believed would like to rise as well to add my comments in discipline in the schools. He fe lt it was very with respect to one Bobby Bend. I will confine important. I could give you some examples of my comments more to the point of the personal that, but I will leave it. Although he is known as life of Mr. Bend and leave the comments that a disciplinarian, he was fair and firm. Another others have added in this Chamber with respect one of his strengths was that he could com­ to his career as the MLA representing the municate and develop rapport with students, constituency of Rockwood. teachers, parents and the whole community. Last week, Mr. Speaker, I had the He was a very people-centred person and he opportunity to attend College Pierre-Elliott­ was well received in all communities he served. Trudeau in my community. After the assembly I also heard him speak at the Morden Collegiate there, I had the opportunity once again to speak in the fall of '69, as he was superintendent there to our longest serving Transcona-Springfieid at the time. I had just finished teaching two school trustee, Mrs. Mary Andree. years in Morden Collegiate, and I went back fo r the graduation exercises. Again, Bobby Bend Now, one of the benefits of long public was at his best and again made a speech that service is the opportunity and the ability to recall held our fu ll attention. He often made reference events and involvements with other community to the values and teaching of the Bible. He leaders and colleagues. I knew that since the challenged us to reflect on these teachings. I Manitoba Legislature would be honouring the December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 521 life work in public service andthe person of Mr. individual and stare at them right in their eye, Bobby Bend, I thought it would be appropriate Mr. Speaker, looking at them eye to eye and ask to ask Mrs. Andree to recollect her time with Mr. them exactly what it was that they were going to Bend. I asked Mrs. Andree if she could recall do about the call. Of course, players soon some of the endearing characteristics of Mr. realized the futility of the challenge. Once Bend. She was happy to share many thoughts of Bobby had made up his mind, he was not about her time, since Mr. Bend had been at one time an to reconsider his decision just because someone employee of the Transcona-Springfield School did not like his call. Division. Now, Mrs. Andree also indicates and In fact, I believe Bobby Bend was the first reflects back to the time when the Andres superintendent after the restructuring of the [phonetic] had a store in the community of school divisions. When our school division Transcona. Of course, Bobby liked to smoke moved, I think it was from the larger school cigars, and he would come into the Andree store division No. 39 and had then moved to division in Transcona to make his purchases. No. 12, which was somewhat smaller. Mr. Bend Apparently, Bobby's favourite brand of cigar became the first superintendent of our school was White Owls. Bobby, not to be dissuaded, division after that restructuring. This was after, after he made his purchase would frequently of course, Bobby had finished his first stint in light up his new cigar in the Andree store, of provincial politics, which many members of this course causing a big cloud of smoke inside the House have already described and talked about store, much to Mrs. Andree's chagrin. Bobby here today. I believe, in talking with Mrs. apparently thought White Owls were the best Andree, she indicated that Bobby's first love was cigars and, of course, he wanted to demonstrate in education. At that time he had applied for and to Mrs. Andree how good those cigars were. was hired as our superintendent. Bobby used to drive an old beater car back Mrs. Andree also recalls that Bobby was a and forth between his workplace and his home. very fair person but, at the same time, he could I know in those days our school division offices be a very determined individual once he had were located in the Transcona Collegiate, where made up his mind. Bobby and Mrs. Andree, who was a trustee at that time, would frequently encounter each In speaking to Bobby's determined manner, I other. Mrs. Andree would ask Bobby, why do do note, Mr. Speaker, that members of this you drive such an old car when you have so far House have talked about Bobby's athletic to travel in all kinds of weather? It seemed to be abilities and his involvement with various apparently clear that Mr. Bend perhaps could sporting activities in our province. I do note that afford a newer vintage of automobile to drive Bobby had, I believe, three years ago been back and forth to work, but Bobby, being the inducted into the Manitoba Baseball Hall of astute person that he was, he would reply to Mrs. Fame. As my colleague the member for Ross­ Andree: You know, Mrs. Andree, if I were to mere (Mr. Schellenberg) has already indicated, purchase a new car, then the teachers and the Bobby was also a baseball umpire and was other trustees and the school taxpayers, what apparently a good athlete in his day. would they think? Would they think that the school division was perhaps paying him too Of course, Mrs. Andree indicates and relates much, and he was determined to avoid the to me that during the course of a ball game, controversy of having to drive that new car back Bobby would make many calls as the umpire, and fo rth. perhaps not all of them to the liking of the affected players that were involved. If Bobby were to indicate during the course of umpiring a It was not long before Bobby once again had game that a particular pitch was a ball or a strike the urge to answer the call of public service, and and not a strike, and if the catcher or the pitcher he ran fo r the Leader of the Liberal Party, as would object to that particular call, Bobby would members of this House have indicated here stop. He would stand and he would look at the today, but instead of taking a leave of absence 522 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 from his job as the division superintendent, But I would venture to say that above all Bobby, I believe, quit his job to become the else, Mr. Bend was first an educator. He always Leader of the Liberal Party. Now, I am told that returned to education following his days in some time later, perhaps for the first time in his public office. Hetaught in several schools in the life, he came perhaps to reconsider that decision province, as well as serving as a principal for a as it was a short time later that he left public number of years. I am most familiar with him office for the last time and re-entered the field of from his days as superintendent of the Interlake education where he ended his working career. School Division. Mr. Bend's contribution to education in the Interlake area was so great that a school in Stonewall now bears his name. Now, Mrs. Andree tells me that one of the strengths that Bobby had was his ability to * (1650) encourage and inspire people whom he would work with on a daily basis. I am told that it was I can still remember Bobby Bend from my very common for Bobby to encourage the school days. In fact, he was a judge at a public teachers, especially the new, young teachers that speaking contest that I was taking part in. he was working with, and he would praise them Although I did not win, I can still remember fo r their work. To this end, the teachers Bobby Bend had kind, constructive words for responded by going the extra mile for the each one of the participants. I can still remember students and for the superintendent they liked the eloquence of his words and the fairness of and respected. his comments.

On behalf of the families in the community Mr. Speaker, one cannot talk about Bobby of Transcona who benefited from Bobby's Bend without reflecting on the great contribution knowledge, his expertise and his leadership in that he made to his community and his commit­ the fieldof education, I extend to his wife, Kay, ment to the betterment of the whole Interlake and to the family our sincere condolences at the area, especially through his participation in loss of your husband, father and grandfather. baseball as a player and also as an umpire. In We thank you fo r sharing Bobby with our honour of his years that he spent playing and community and for his interest in improving the officiating baseball, he was inducted into the quality of education fo r our young people, Manitoba Baseball Hall of Fame about three Bobby's continuing legacy to this province. years ago. Bobby had a strong appreciation for Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the importance of recreation and sport in one's life, and he was committed to ensuring that recreational facilities and activities were avail­ Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Mr. Speaker, it able fo r his community. Indeed, throughout my is with fond memory and great respect that I years in public life, I became a very good friend would like to offer my condolences to the family of Bobby, and he became one of my constituents and friends of the late Robert Bend, or Bobby, as in 1990 when the Gimli constituency boundaries he was known to many of us here. It is my changed to include the Stonewall area. pleasure to share some of Bobby Bend's legacy with the members of this House, as he was very Mr. Speaker, I was constantly impressed by familiar to most of you. the conviction with which he worked. He had strong principles that he would not compromise, As was previously mentioned, Bobby was and he was a man of integrity who will always first elected in 1949 to the Manitoba Legislature. hold a very special place in my memory, so I am During his term, he served as Minister of pleased to pay tribute to the impact that he had Education and Minister of Health and Public on my life and the lives of many here. Welfare in the Douglas Campbell government. He also ran for Leader of the Liberal Party in In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to 1969. In fact, I was at that leadership con­ extend my personal sympathies and respect to vention. It was an exciting time, and Bobby was the relatives of Bobby Bend, in particular his elected Leader of the Liberal Party. wife Kay and his children. They should certainly December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 523 all be very proud of the life that he lived and the Mr. David Faurschou (Portage Ia Prairie): great contribution that he made to Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to Thank you. place upon the record a few brief comments in regard to a gentleman who has my respect and House Business the respect of many constituents whom I represent. Poplar Point is now part of the con­ Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House stituency of Portage la Prairie, and there are Leader): Mr. Speaker, on a matter of House many in that community who still know and business, is there leave of the House to waive remember with fondness Bobby Bend. private members' hour? [agreed] My only personal acquaintance with Mr.

* * * Bobby Bend was that of his attendance to my elementary school in the election of 1969, where Mr. Bobby Bend presented an inspirational Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Speaker, address on teamwork. He extolled the virtues of I rise today to express my sympathy and offer hard work and perseverance. Mr. Bend made a my condolences to the family of Bobby Bend. I tremendous impression upon myself, so much so did not know Bobby all that well other than that I went home that evening sporting a lapel through sort of being third party to some button of prominent red and Bobby Bend's name telephone conversations back in the late 1960s. upon that button, much to the chagrin of my A teenager at the time, my thoughts were on father and grandfather who were very much other things than politics, but my father and my supporters of the Progressive Conservative can­ mother both knew Bobby and had a tremendous didate of 1996 and now my colleague Mr. Harry amount of respect fo r him. Enns. But that just goes to show you how inspirational and how much effect that Mr. As our main family phone was in the kitchen Bobby Bend can have upon a person in a very and the family spent most of our time there, I short time frame. was able to hear one side of many conversations that started by trying to convince Mr. Bend, I would like to extend at this time my Bobby, that he should let his name stand fo r the sympathy on behalf of the residents of Portage la leadership of the Liberal Party in Manitoba and Prairie and Poplar Point and extend, too, how also many other conversations with other much respect that we still have in our fond members of the Liberal Party in Manitoba as my memories of Mr. Bobby Bend. Thank you. father extolled the virtues of Mr. Bend and worked very hard and very diligently on his Mrs. (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, I campaign to be chosen as Leader of the Liberal would like to personally put on record and Party at that time. extend my personal condolences to the family of Bobby Bend. I did not know Bobby personally, I would just like to put on the record that it but I did know his family and worked with his never ceased to amaze me how many good son, Robbie Bend, for some time. One thing that things were both said and confirmed during stood out in my mind was a tremendous respect those telephone conversations of which I was and vision that Bobby Bend had for this just privy to one end of the conversation, but province, and even through his family I heard on certainly my parents had the greatest respect and many occasions of the kind of respect that his continued to have the greatest respect for Bobby own family had and the kind of vision he gave Bend, in particular in his efforts in the field of his own family for this province and, in education in which my father was very much particular, in the area of education. involved. So I would like to personally extend my Certainly there is a tremendous amount of condolences to the family, because it is great respect for the work that Mr. Bend did in the Canadians like this who make a difference. education system in my family, and I just wanted to make those comments on the record and offer Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to my condolences to them. Thank you. adopt this motion? 524 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Bill 2 proposes to amend The City of Winnipeg Act to allow the city to register a Mr. Speaker: Would honourable members variety of orders against the title of the property please rise and remain standing to indicate their they affect. The proposed amendment was support for the motion. originally requested by the Community Educa­ tion and Development Association and the West A moment of silence was observed. Central Residents Committee in a joint submission to Winnipeg City Council. I know * (1700) that there are a number of other community House Business groups and residents associations in the city of Winnipeg which have also been interested in this Committee Changes type of amendment to The City of Winnipeg Act. Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Yes, Mr. Speaker, on a matter of House business, I would like to This submission was eventually forwarded rescind the previous change to the Standing to the province fo r consideration. The Committee on Municipal Affairs. amendment has also been identified as a priority in two city reports, the draft Winnipeg Housing I move, seconded by the member for Gimli Policy and the Action Against Arson proposal, (Mr. Helwer), that the composition of the recently put fo rward by a city standing com­ Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be mittee which has been dealing with a variety of amended as fo llows: St. Norbert (Mr. issues on arson. Mr. Speaker, I want to say that Laurendeau) for Southdale (Mr. Reimer). we are well aware that this is not the only amendment to The City of Winnipeg Act that Motion agreed to. many groups have proposed, but it is one that we fe el can be acted upon relatively quickly. Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Wellington This particular act, of course, applies to the (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the city as a whole, amending The City of Winnipeg Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be Act. The amendment may be used in a variety amended as fo llows: Transcona (Mr. Reid) fo r of situations where the repair and upkeep of a Inkster (Ms. Barrett). building is in question. The need for the amendment has certainly been recognized as Motion agreed to. important in the inner city, but I do want to stress that it is a law of general application and SECOND READINGS will apply to all houses or can apply, I should say, to all houses where this is an issue. Bi11 2-The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act There are areas of the city where there are many boarded-up houses. In some cases there Hon. (Minister of Intergovern­ are several boarded-up houses on one particular mental Affairs): I move, seconded by the block. In opposition, I invited the previous Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh), that Bill 2, government to examine this issue and to provide The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act; Loi remedies fo r it. We looked at issues of modifiant Ia Loi sur Ia Ville de Winnipeg, be insurance. We looked at other issues of renova­ now read a second time and be referred to a tions to these houses. There were many oppor­ committee of this House. tunities, I think, that the previous government had to deal with aspects of this issue. We do not Motion presented. want to pretend that this particular amendment will solve all the issues, but we do indicate that it Ms. Friesen: I am glad to have the opportunity is one step that has been requested by the of a fe w minutes to put some comments on the community and which we think may be part of a record on this bill. solution. December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 525

Boarded-up houses I think, as many The bill offers a solution to the delays members know, contribute to an image of which, for a variety of reasons-and there are neglect in parts of the city. They create concerns many reasons that properties are sold. It makes for personal and property safety. They do reduce it possible under the amendment for the city to neighbourhood property values. They reduce offer alternatives for a timely enforcement of property tax assessment and hence city tax these orders. So this bill will enable the city, if it revenue as well. They can be, on occasion, the so chooses, to register an order which has been target of criminal or disorderly acts. Boarded-up issued for a property against the property title. properties in general place at risk the commit­ This is enabling. It enables the city to do this. ment that inner city residents have made throughout Winnipeg to their communities. The bill will also require the city to formally discharge the order from the title once there has At present, The City of Winnipeg Act gives been a compliance. A subsequent purchaser of Winnipeg broad authority to deal with a variety the property will then be deemed to have been of property conditions including nuisances-and served with this order and will be just as that covers a wide range of issues-untidy and responsible as the firstowner for complying with unsightly premises, as it says in the act, the order in the time period permitted. No violations of The Public Health Act, conditions fu rther service on the subsequent purchaser will which may result in fires and violations of be required. building standards including dangerous *(1710) buildings. Bill 2, we believe, provides the City of Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Winnipeg with an important tool to support Chair citizens in the maintenance of the city and particularly in renewing the inner city. In the The city can and has adopted by-laws to past, the practice of transferring the property title address these conditions and to ensure property could, on occasion, result in delays in executing and safety standards are met. The law must also, an order, and there are certainly communities in Mr. Deputy Speaker, ensure that orders to rectify the city, in the inner city, in particular, who problems can be implemented in a timely believe they have been affected by this. This bill manner. Currently, if an owner is directed to will allow the city to enforce the orders more comply with a by-law, The City of Winnipeg quickly. It will be a benefit to neighbourhoods Act requires that the city must serve the order on and communities throughout the city. the property owner. The order gives the owner a reasonable time to comply with the by-law. If Bill 2 symbolizes our government's commit­ the owner considers the order unfair, he or she ment to the people of Winnipeg and to inner city may quite properly appeal the order, and there neighbourhoods. It also sends a clear message to are a variety of procedures fo r that. the citizens of Winnipeg and Manitoba that the province is ready to participate in the process of One problem that can arise is that owners revitalizing our capital's inner city. may sell their property after being served with an order but before the deadline has expired for This bill is one step and I emphasize that. It compliance. Since the new owner has not been is one step, one part, in addressing the multiple served with the order, the city is required to go challenges fac ing this important part of our again through the process of finding and serving community, and these challenges will need to be the new owner with the order and then, appropri­ addressed in many areas. I have already spoken ately of course, appeal times must fo llow and in the House many times on the actions that the giving the person a reasonable time period to Department of Labour and the Department of comply with the order. Only then can the order Justice have taken to assist the city in dealing be finally enforced. Of course, nothing prevents with the current issues. There are many depart­ the second owner from selling it again as the ments of government, Education and health care deadline approaches, thus the city must go in particular, which also deal with the issues that through the whole process yet again. are facing the citizens of Winnipeg. 526 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999

But we in this government are prepared to enabling piece of legislation. It gives them the take the necessary time to develop the long-term opportunity to make the decision on their own. strategies that will guide our future initiatives. We fe el that that is a very strong area where the Most importantly, we are committed to working City of Winnipeg has indicated that they do want with, to forming alliances with others, to be able to make their decisions. They do fe el particularly other levels of government as well that the decision making should be empowered as community organizations so that we can work within council. We in government at the time together in the best interests of all the citizens of agreed with them, and that was one of the Winnipeg. reasons why the Cuff report was passed. This is, in essence, a continuation of some of the more In the coming months, this government will specifics that the City of Winnipeg was looking be putting forward a number of initiatives fo r in regard to the Cuff report. around urban issues in the city which may include further legislatives changes, new So I believe that it is encouraging to hear programs and new fo cuses fo r existing pro­ that the present government and the minister is grams. We are committed to continuing to work talking about delegating or giving fu rther in partnership with the city, the fe deral govern­ enabling legislation to the City of Winnipeg with ment, community groups, businesses and City of Winnipeg amendments. I know that individuals who care deeply about Winnipeg and there is a redraft of The City of Winnipeg Act. its neighbourhoods to develop co-ordinated com­ It is being finalizedat this particular time, and, if mon sense and neighbourhood-based solutions. I recall, the time frame was fo r presentation before year-end fo r possible implementation into In conclusion, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the new year with some of the amendments, and recommend this bill to the members of the that may be coming. We look forward to that, Legislature for their consideration and adoption. because I think that the relationship between the city and the province is something that both Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr. Deputy governments should work very, very con­ Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the tinuously at because it is of benefit for not only opportunity to put a few words on the record in Winnipeg but fo r Manitoba. If you have a strong regard to Bill 2. [interjection] Just a fe w, yes, Winnipeg, you have a strong Manitoba, and vice because we will be supporting this legislation. It versa. So there is room fo r both to work in a co­ is a continuation, I believe, of a lot of the effo rts operative manner, and I would think that the new and the programs that we initiated on our side of government should look on that in a very the government, and this was a continuation of positive manner. some of the things that were brought forth fo r consideration as we were building up to the I notice the minister mentioned a lot of the election of September of this year. other departments in regard to working with the city. She mentioned the Justice department, the We had been in conversation with the city in Labour department, but I would think within the regard to trying to look at some of the solutions Intergovernmental Affairs department there is a in regard to the problems that were faced in what tremendous opportunity with some of the was referred to as flipping of properties so that existing agreements that are in place with the the notices of nuisances and the notice fo r City of Winnipeg like the Urban Projects Capital repairs for safety and health reasons were not Allocation fu nd, the MWCRP fund, the being complied with, and as has been referred to Winnipeg Development Agreement fu nding. by the minister, where they were just registered There are a lot of avenues available that are still against the homeowner instead of the property there fo r the minister to explore for building itself. It gave the homeowner or the renter the upon the relationship with the City of Winnipeg. opportunity to move that property along through other avenues, flippingit to other areas. Mr. Speaker in the Chair

So this piece of legislation is legislation that The uniqueness of some of those programs, we feel the City of Winnipeg can use as an especially the Urban Capital shared program- December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 527 ming, it was a $96-million program between the Winnipeg. So I look forward to those directions City of Winnipeg and the province, one of a kind that may come out of that department, so there is in Canada. There is still a fair amount of funding room for other programming in there. that is unallocated, which I would think that the minister should look at very seriously fo r the I should point out that I found it interesting enhancement and for the betterment of in regard to the Cuff report in the City Council, Winnipeg, whether it is in the core area or just recently when they were talking about the wherever it is in the city because it is meant to allocation of funding, the chairman of the be a city-wide program. finance department of the City of Winnipeg had allocated fu nding. I believe it was just over $4.4 I would think that there is an opportunity million and then all of a sudden they realized there to make some significant changes in that the money was spent, and they said: oh, we working with the city fo r the allocation of funds, did not realize we could do that. Yet it was that because there is the allocation of $36 million, same councillor and that same chairman of the $96 million or $90 million, or pardon me-$33 finance department that was lobbying so hard million and $60 million, with $60 million still with our government to give them the ability to allocated can be utilized through the province, make decisions. Once we gave them the ability gives the minister and the present government an to make decisions through the Cuff report, all of opportunity to bring forth some very significant a sudden they realized that they were spending programs for the city of Winnipeg. this money. So it was just a bit ironic that you give them the power, they make the decision, · Under that program the Manitoba-Winnipeg and then all of a sudden they are backtracking Community Revitalization Program, there is a and saying: oh, we did not know we could make $7-million allocation there that still has not been those decisions. utilized. I would expect that the new govern­ ment and the minister would be looking at that in Anyway, Mr. Speaker, with this bill, like I a very positive manner in trying to get that one said, I think that the City of Winnipeg can off the ground very shortly. I know we were benefit from them. It gives them the enabling working with the City of Winnipeg and the powers to go after the clean-up of boarded up mayor at the time was looking at how we could buildings, nuisances, health hazards, and things best utilize that program. I would expect that of those nature, and like I said we will be that should be coming forth to add into the supporting this bill. revitalization of the downtown area or specific areas that they fe el it should be looked after. * (1720)

I would think that the new government has a Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): I am task at force because during our tenure, the 10 delighted to speak on Bill 2 and want to years that we were in government, the fu nding compliment our Minister of Intergovernmental to the City of Winnipeg never went down. It Affairs (Ms. Friesen) for bringing this fo rward averaged 4 percent increase every year from the and getting agreement to pass it expeditiously. province to the city. So I would think that there is a precedent there that the new government can I was founding member of the Housing look at and point to our commitment that we had ConcernsGroup in the early 1980s, and I can tell with the City of Winnipeg. I notice there have you that this was a problem back then. So I been comments saying that we have neglected think I can say that it has been a serious problem the city in our relationship, but I can only refer for at least 20 years, that is, property owners back to a person that is even working within buying and selling properties in order to get out their staff now in a report that was compiled to of various kinds of orders by the City of the city that the City ofWin nipeg gets the largest Winnipeg. What problem does this bill address? share of revenue on a per capita basis than any It addresses the inability of the City of Winnipeg other city in Canada, Mr. Peter Diamant's report. to issue health orders, repair orders, et cetera, It is encouraging that she is using his advice to and have them fo llowed through. This is increase even more funding for the City of because there exists a loophole whereby 528 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 property owners could sell their properties, and problem or to close the loophole, and we thank the result is that the city would have to start the the official opposition fo r co-operating to pass process all over again. this bill expeditiously. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For example, I was told just recently of a Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): I appreciate house on Flora A venue and a business on the opportunity to say a fe w words on Bill 2. As Selkirk A venue where the city had obtained a the honourable member fo r Southdale (Mr. demolition order, the bulldozer was already to Reimer) mentioned, it is a bill that we will be go to demolish these properties, and they were supporting and certainly if there is a continuation sold. The result is that everything grinds to a of the work that was started under the previous halt, and the city has to inspect them all over government. I would like to thank the minister's again, and it can be a lengthy process. It can staff fo r taking the time to brief us on the bill last require up to a year's time to successfully week. It certainly was appreciated. demolish a property. Bill 2 means that the order to repair or As anyone who reads the legislation will improve a property will be registered against the recognize, it is a very permissive and enabling title of the property. If the property is sold, the piece of legislation which allows the City of new owner would be deemed to have been Winnipeg to hopefully start to control a situation served with the same order, effectively putting that I think we need to get a better handle on in an end to it. I would like to give some examples terms of inner city housing, and it certainly gives of how this affects people particularly in the the city, it has been mentioned, the opportunity inner city, but as the minister pointed out, it to act when property owners are putting together could be anywhere in the city. For example, I schemes to avoid their own individual have correspondence from the Luxton Residents responsibilities. Association from December 6, 1999, which points out that 1161/z Lansdowne Avenue had I do however have some concerns about the been boarded up since the beginning of this year. legislation as it has been presented. I think the There was an outstanding work order from the biggest concern I have is that through the City of Winnipeg which expired in October, at wording in the legislation there is no guarantee which time the property was flipped to a new that it will be applied in an even-handed manner owner. The repair order on the property is still to anyone who receives one of the orders outstanding. described in the explanatory notes. I think this raises a spectre of danger in terms of the Well, because of the initiative of this application of these orders and the registering of government because of Bill 2 this will no longer these orders. happen, and the city will have the power to fo llow through on various kinds of orders. Even Now, we have to go back to December 7, before the problem of flipping, another problem last week, when the Minister of Consumer and which I hope the government will address in the Corporate Affairs (Mr. Lemieux) in his response future is the fact that if houses are securely to the throne speech indicated that it is a boarded up, inspectors cannot get into them in fu ndamental belief of members opposite that order to issue work orders and that can cause everybody be treated on equal fo oting. Certainly some serious problems. For example, in Burrows the amendment as it is presented allows for constituency one house was boarded up for over certain property owners to have their orders 15 years, and it was only because of two fires in registered and certain other property owners to the house that the city inspectors were able to get not have their orders registered. in. Fortunately this story has a happy ending, because the house was demolished and two new I know also through speaking with some of houses built with volunteers by Habitat fo r the staff at the City of Winnipeg subsequent to Humanity were erected on the same property. the briefing, they also have concerns as to how they, in fa ct, are going to diffe rentiate between In conclusion I would like to commend the who they register an order against and who gets government fo r acting so quickly to resolve this left off the list in terms of ordering registrations. December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 529

It has been brought to my attention through the the chairrrian of the Property Development briefing conducted by the minister's staff that it committee, who also had not seen the legislation. indeed appears that it is a relatively small group So I took the opportunity to send them both over of landlords, property owners in the inner city a copy. that are taking advantage of this loophole which now exists to flip propertyin order to avoid their As I mentioned, I spoke to staff from the responsibility regarding the orders that are given City of Winnipeg, particularly in the Housing to them. department, who had no idea of how they would go about making a distinction between those While that is a deplorable situation, it does orders that were to be registered and, in fact, not necessarily warrant that a system be put in those orders that would not be registered. I think place that allows for different treatment of that is a concern to staff. So I want to talk about citizens within our community who own working in partnership with the various levels of property based on either where they own the governments. I think it is important that the property, where the property is geographically provincial government try and close the loop and located. Although the reference certainly in the make sure that the people not only who are dialogue has been to inner city properties, this responsible for the legislative changes at the city also gives the city the right to register these but the people who are responsible for imple­ orders on any property throughout the city. So menting this policy have a clear understanding the conclusion one can draw is that some will be of where it is going and what ramifications they registered, some will not. In fact, people who will have. have had orders registered against their property, will they have concerns that because they know I think, Mr. Speaker, I point out to the a certain individual at the city or because they members opposite that there are many fine are on a little different terms with the City examples throughout the country in terms of Council or a city councillor that orders are enabling legislation which operates in a fair and registered against their property and not against even-handed way fo r anybody who receives an the different property owners? I think that is a order similar to as described in the explanatory legitimate concern. notes. I will just give one example, the city of Edmonton, who, when they issue an order, There are a tremendous number of orders impose a fine on the owner of the property at the issued in a year. Speaking to people in the time, and it is treated similar to any other ticket Housing department, there are over 2,000- that would be issued by any other city simply in that one department, 2,000-orders department. There is a fine placed on the owner, listed already this year. The cost, I understand, and that fine would never be rescinded unless of registering these orders is $35 per order. One the order is complied with. That is a fairly naturally will draw the conclusion that the city recent change in the way the City of Edmonton would not want to register every order simply as handles it, and my understanding from a matter of not wanting to increase its cost of discussions with people there is they are very doing business. You know, if you extrapolate satisfied with how it is working. So I would that to other departments, maybe there are 4,000 encourage the minister and her department to orders listed in a year, at $35 an order, well, that look at possibly more longer-term solutions would come to $150,000, and maybe then the which could be applied certainly even-handedly. mayor would not be able to spend those funds on redoing his office. I mean, who knows? In any I think, as I mentioned earlier, this piece of event, it is a concernof mine. legislation certainly is a first step. I am very pleased to hear that the minister admits that it is I also have a concernthat afterthe briefing, I one first step, but I think it is a very small step took the opportunity to phone the councillor and one that has very limited value in the long responsible for Intergovernmental Affairs, Jae term. So I would hope that they would open this Eadie, who had not received a copy of the up through fu rther consultation and further legislation to his knowledge and had not seen it. discussion. Just by way of I guess attempting to The next day I spoke to Councillor De Smedt, help, certainly in this day and age with the 530 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 13, 1999 ability to pass information over the wires and minister's desire to support those people in the with computerization in the City of Winnipeg inner city who so badly need our help. Thank and the Land Titles department, certainly there is you. not a cost of $35 per order, of passing this order * (1730) from one body in the city to one body in the province. I think we will all do well to under­ Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. stand that at the end of the day, it is one taxpayer Speaker, I rise to speak on Bill 2, briefly who is footing the bill. The more efficient that compliment the minister on producing the we can get the various levels of government, in legislation, at the same time to express some particular, in this case, the Land Titles Office concern that after II years in opposition and a and the various offices in the city that are issuing lot of time to prepare that we did not have a the orders to work on an economical, efficient much more solid profile of legislation fo r this and co-ordinated approach, the better off we will session. I think that many of us would have all be. much appreciated an action-packed agenda with more real, substantive legislation this time I think what has happened here, Mr. around. We are a little disappointed that other Speaker, is that certainly the minister has ministers have not also produced legislation that provided the City of Winnipeg with the stick could be tabled and looked at and evaluated and with which to beat the landlords, and quite started to debate. rightly so. I mean, where they are avoiding their responsibility, it certainly at times does take With the sort of enthusiasm that was present some powerful enforcement in order fo r them to in the election, one would have expected a whole stand up to it. I would like to remind the lot more activity quickly. We will wait and we minister that probably the most effective way of will hope that, come the spring, in fact there will dealing with this issue is through some type of be a lot more legislation. Clearly there was a lot carrot for those individuals who own property in that was left undone. I hope that, while I support the inner city, who need some help, who need in general concept this legislation, the minister, some support, whether they are renting that perhaps in her closing remarks, will address property or whether they are owning that today or in the committee tomorrow this property, and I do believe that the only real question of ensuring that the application will be solution to this problem, which this amendment fair and equitable and will not be done on some is attempting to address, is to provide the sort of arrangement as too oftenhappened in the necessary hope and opportunity to the people in past where individuals were singled out instead the inner city that they can build their of a more general and equitable and fair community, that they can own property, that approach to implementing Jaw. there is a hope that when they work together to improve the lot in the inner city that the value of The other issue that I would raise that I think their housing will increase. is important, and I would ask the minister if, in fact, together with the City of Winnipeg, she has I would certainly encourage the minister in done a cost-of-implementation analysis which her dealings with the city in a co-operative spirit we would expect in this sort of legislation and look fo r creative ways to create the carrot that presented so that we know what, in fact, the cost will allow the people of the inner city to take of putting in place the bureaucracy, the cost of control of their own situation and have a fe eling implementing this legislation is going to be. of hope and opportunity fo r the future. One only None of us in this House want to impose needs to look at the millions of dollars that have unnecessary costs of bureaucracy on the public. been spent over the years through the Winnipeg I think it is rather important in any piece of Development Agreement and other similar legislation that we look carefully at the costs as agreements that date back years and years to the well as at its effects. '70s and the existing state of downtown to understand that it is not purely by spending I look fo rward to the comments at the public dollars. That is no key to revitalizing any committee stage tomorrow, but I think that in area. I hope that would be taken forward in the putting on the record just a few things, the December 13, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 531 positive nature of this in general towards the Speaker, I wish to announce that the Municipal inner city and perhaps in other areas of the city. Affairs committee will meet on Tuesday, I am pleased that, in fact, we have an initiative December 14, 1999, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 to that relates to the inner city, because this is consider Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Amend­ important not only to the city but it is important ment Act. to the health of the province. With that and with those comments, we will sit down and hope that Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government the minister can, in fact, satisfactorily address House Leader advises that the Municipal Affairs the concerns raised. committee will meet on Tuesday, December 14, 1999, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 to consider Bill 2, Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the The City of Winnipeg Amendment Act. question? The question before the House is second reading of Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Mr. Mackintosh: Is there leave to call it six Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House o'clock? to adopt the motion? Agreed? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to call it six Mt. Speaker: Agreed and so ordered. o'clock? [agreed] House Business The hour being 6 p.m., this House is Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m� Leader): On a matter of House business, Mr. tomorrow (Tuesday). LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

December 13, 1999

CONTENTS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS SmartHealth Presenting Reports by Standing and Gerrard; Chomiak 492 Special Committees Aboriginal Gaming Policy Special Committee of Seven Persons, 2nd Loewen; Lemieux 493 Report Mackintosh 485 Disaster Assistance S. Smith; Ashton 494 Tabling of Reports Titanium Mine-Cross Lake Annual Report, Manitoba Education Pitura; Mihychuk 495 Research and LearningInf ormation Networks, 1998-1 999 Call Centres Caldwell 486 Loewen; Doer 495

1998-99 Annual Report, Manitoba Health Members' Statements including Annual Report, Manitoba Health Services Insurance Plan; 1998-99 Farm Family ofthe Year Award Annual Report, Manitoba Health Research Struthers 496 Council; 1998-99 Annual Report, Addictions Foundation of Manitoba; Child Poverty 1998-99 Annual Report of Sport; Faurschou 496 Annual Report of the Health Information Services of Manitoba Vidir Machine Shop Corporation for year ended Nevakshonoff 497 March 31, 1999 Chomiak 486 Jack Murray Pitura 497

Assiniboia Community Activities Oral Questions Rondeau 498

Chemotherapy Treatment ORDERS OF THE DAY Filmon; Chomiak 487 Motions of Condolence GovernmentAgencies Rocan; Selinger 488 Walter Cliffo rd McDonald Praznik; Selinger 488 Doer 498 Film on 499 Crop Insurance Gerrard 500 Jack Penner; Wowchuk 489 Roc an 500 Dyck 501 International Joint Commission Report Helwer; Doer 491 Cornelius W. Wiebe Urban Shared Services Corporation Doer 501 Gerrard; Chomiak 492 Filmon 503 Gerrard 503 Gerrard 517 Dyck 504 Enns 518 Schellenberg 506 Schellenberg 519 Jack Penner 507 Reid 520 Helwer 522 James Wallace McKenzie Loewen 523 Doer 507 J. Smith 523 Filmon 508 Derkach 510 Ashton 511 Second Readings Enns 513 Struthers 514 Bill 2-The City of Winnipeg Cummings 514 Amendment Act Gerrard 515 Friesen 524 Reimer 526 Robert William Bend Martindale 527 Doer 515 Loewen 528 Film on 516 Gerrard 530