4572 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. APRIL 11,

SENATE. Vaughn Class of the Calvary Baptist Sunday School, the North Capitol Methodist Episcopal Church, the Fourth Presbyterian THURSDAY, April 11, 191B. Chnrch, the Strauss l\femorial Christian Church, the Kendall Baptist Church, the Keller Memorial Lutheran Church, the Peck The Sennte met at 2 o'clock p. m. Memorial Chapel, the CalVary Baptist Church, the Waugh Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. Ulysses G. B. Pierce, D. D. Methodist Episcopal Church, the Church of Our Father, Uni­ The Journal of yesterday's proc,eedings was read and approved. versalist, the Foundry Methodist Episcopal Church, the Eastern SENATOR FROM TENNESSEE. Presbyterian Church, the Sherwood Presbyterian Church, the Mr. LEA. l\Ir. President, I present the credentials of Hon. First Church, the Iowa A venue Methodist Episcopal Church, NE\VELL SANDERS, appointed by the governor of Tennessee to the Douglas Methodist Episcopal Church, the B Street Chris­ fill the vacancy created by the death of the late Senator tian Church, and of 1:1undry citizens, all in the District of TAYLOR. I ask that the credentials may be read by the Secretary. Columbia, praying for the enactment of legislation to diminish The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the the number of saloons in the District and for more stringent credentials. regulation of tllose now in existence, which were referred to the The Secretary re:ld the credentials of NEWELL SANDERS, ap­ Committee on the District of Columbia. pointed by the go"\'ernor of the State of Tennessee a Senator from l\Ir. ASHURST presented a petition of sundry citizen's of that State to fill the vacancy in the term ending March 3, 1D13. Show Low, Ariz., prnying for the enactment of legislation to The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, the credentials proV"icle relief respecting the method of acquiring homesteads will be referred to the Secretary for the files of the Senate. and the alleged excessive charges of the forest reserve, which l\fr. LEA. Mr. SANDERS is present and ready to take the oath was referred to the Committee on Public Lands. of office. He nlso presented a petition of the Nogales and Santa Crnz 'l'he VICE PRNSIDENT. The Senator appointed will present County Board of Trade, of Arizona, praying for the enactrne11t himself at the desk to take the constitutional oath of office. of legislation to provide for the early settlement of the matter Mr. SANDERS was escorted to the Vice President's desk by of the Baca Float, No. 3, contest, which was referred to the l\Ir. LEA, and the onth prescribed by law having been admin­ Committee on Public Lands. istered to him, he took his seat in the Senate. He also presented a petition of the Woman's Christian -'l'em­ 0 INTERNATIONAL RADIOTELEGRAPHIC CONFERENCE (S. DOC. N O. G53). perance Union of Phoenix, Ariz., praying for the enactment of The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a communica­ an interstate liquor law to prevent the nullification of State tion from the Secretary of the Treasury, transmitting a letter liquor laws by outside dealers, which was referred to the Com­ from the Acting Secretary of State, submitting an estimate of mittee on the Judiciary. appropriation for inclusion in the diplomatic aud consular He also presented the petition of Rufus Walter, post quarter­ apiiropriation bill for the payment of the expenses of expert master sergeant, United States Army, of Whipple Barrack!::\, delegates to the International Radiotelegraphic Conference to be Ariz., iiraying for the _enactment of legislation to provide for held at London, June, 1!)12, etc., $15,DOO, which, with the accom­ the discontinuance of the grade of post noncornmissionericlge nncl of sundry citizens of ment of the vehicles of the Metropolitan Coach Co.; Springfield and Westfield, all in the State of Mnssaclrnsctts, S. 4314. An act grunting pensions and increase of pensions to 11raying for the enactment of an interstate liquor law to prevent certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain widows the nullification of State liquor laws by outside de:ilers, which and dependent relatiV"cs of sucll soldiers and sailors ; and were referrecl to the Committee on the Judiciary. S. 462 . An act granting pensions and incrc~se of pensions to Mr. HAYNER preRented }1etitions of sundry citizens of Grn.y­ certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain wiclows ton, Mel., praying for the establishment of a go>ernmental sys­ and dependent relatiV"es of such soldiers and sailors. tem of postal express, which were referred to the Connnittce on ENROLLED IlILL SIG~ED . Post Offices and Post Roads. Tlle mes~age also announced that the Speaker of the House REPORTS OF COMMITTEES. had signed the enrollecl bill (H. R. 18661) to proV"ille for an Mr. BORAH, from the Committee on Education and Labor, extension of time of payment of all unpaid payments due from to which was referred the bill (H. R. Q061) limiting the hours homesteaders on the Coeur d'Alene Indian Heserrntion, ns i1ro­ of daily service of l nl>o rers aml mecbanics employed upon work vicled for under an act of Congress approved. June 21, 1!30G, ancl done for the United States, or for any Territory, or for the it was thereupon signed by the Yice President. · District of Columbia, and for other pnrposcs, reported it with­ PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS. out nrnenclment ancl submitted a report (No. 601) thereon. The VICE PRESIDENT presented n petition of the congre­ Mr. GALLINGIlic utilities commission was liquors, which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. recommitted to the Committee on tbe District of Columbia. I l\fr. GALLINGER presented a petition of Arlington Grange, now report the bill back with amendments, and I submit a re­ N0. 139, Patrons of Husbandry, of Winchester, N. H., praying port (No. G02) thereon. I a sk that the bill be placed on the for the establishment of a parcel-post system, which was re­ calendar. fP.rred to the Committee on Post Oflices and Post Uoads. The VlCE PRESIDENT. Tbe bill will be placed on the Mr. WORKS presented petitions of the congregntions of the cnlenclar. First Church of Christ, Scienti5t, the Western Presbyterian l\Ir. S~fOOT, from the Committee on Public Lands, to which Church, the Wesley Methodist Episcopal Church, the Immanuel ""ere referred the follo,ving bills, reported them each without Baptist Church, the Union Wesley African 1\Ietho

S. 5957 . .i bill providing for the issuance of patents to cntry­ By l\Ir. SMOOT: mcn for homesteads in the so-cnllcd Flathead irrigation project A bill ( S. G'.272) to amend the reclamation law (with accom­ (Rept. No. GO-!) . p:myin;; papers) ; to the Committee on Public Lanr. Ill., and I submit a report (No. 600) thereon. I call the priation bill, whicll was referred to the Committee on Com­ att<'ution of tile senior Senator from Illinois [Mr. CULLOM] to merce and ordered to be printed. tile !Jill. Mr. BANKHEAD submitted an amendment proposing to ap­ i\fr. CULLOi\I. I ask for tile immediate consideration of the propriate $60,000 for an inland waterway from Pensacola Bay l>ill. to llny La Launch, Fla. and Ala., etc., intended to be propo~ed The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read the bill by him to the river and harbor appropriation bill, which was for the information of the Senate. referred to the Committee on Commerce ancl orderecl to be Tl.le Secretary rend the bill. :incl, there being no objection, the printed. Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, proceeded to its consid­ Mr. KERN submitted an amendment proposing to appropriate eration. $25,000 for the construction of a breah.-water to protect the en­ The bill wns reported to the Senate without amendment, or­ trance to the harbor at Indiana Harbor, Ind., etc., intended to be dered to a third reading, read the third time, and 11assed. proposed by him to the river and harbor appropriation bill, which was referred to the Committee on Commerce and ordered . BILLS INTRODUCED. to be printed. · Dills were introduced, rend the first time, and, by unanimous AMENDMENTS TO APPROPRIATION DILLS. consent, the second time, :incl referred as follows: Mr. ASHURST submitted an amendment proposing to ap11ro­ Ry l\Ir. SWA.r~soN (for l\1r. MARTIN of Virginia) : priate $230,000 to enable the Secretary of the Interior to carry A bill ( S. G2G3) providing for the improYement ·of the road­ into effect the provisions of the sixth article of the treaty of way from the railroad depot at Fredericksburg, Va., to the June 8, 18GS, between the United States ancl the Navajo Na­ nntional cemetery near Fredericksburg; to the Committee on .Military Affairs. tion or Tribe of Indians, etc., intended to be proposed by him Ry Mr. Sil\'.G\'fONS : to the Indian appropriation bill (H. R. 20728), which was A bill ( S. 62G4) granting an increase of pension to Pleasant referred to the Committee on Indian Affairs and ordered to be printed. W. Lowe (with accompanying paper) ; to the Committee on Mr. PENROSE submitted an amendment proposing to appro­ Pensions. By Mr. GALLINGER: priate $80,000 to meet the emergency causell by the continuous spread of the chestnut-bark disease, etc., intended to be pro­ .i bill ( S. 62G5 ) to n mend an act entitled "An act to reorgan­ ize nnd increase the effidency of the personnel of the Navy and posed by him to the agricultural appropriation bill (H. R. Marine Corvs of the United States," approved Marcll 3, 189!) · 189GO), which was referred to the Committee on Agriculture to the Committee on N:rrnl Affairs. ' and Forestry and orere

Affairs and the Committee on the District of Columbia, and l\fr. There is not one single solitary institution of political or civil -LEA was excused. liberty dear to the liberty-loving English-speaking race that is l\Ir. CLARKE of Arkansas submitted the following resolution, not due to the fact that the House of Commons always insisted which was read, considered by unanimous consent, and agreed to : upon this principle. ResolL·cd, That the following assignments to service on the standing Under the Constitution itself the House of Representatives is committees of the Senate be, and the same are hereby, made as follows: in control of money bills. It _is em11owered to originnte bills Mr. LEA, of T ennessee, to Committees on Military Afl'airs and Post Offices and Post Roads. which , " rai~e reyenue." This is a historic phrase ancl means l\Ir. WATSO~. of '1cst Virginia, to Committee on Nnval Affairs. the same as " supply bills " or " money bills," " raising reYe­ Mr. AsuunsT, of At•izona. to Committees on Public Buildings and Grounds, Pensions, Indian Affairs, Industrial Expositions, Conservation nue" wherewith the Exeeutive can "carry on the Government" of National Ucsources, and Forest Reservations and Protection of Game. and pay its \arious agents. Under the Constitution the Senate l\Ir. S;\IITH of Arizona. to Committees on Public Lands, District of Co- of the United States is given power to amend such bills. This lumbia, Irrigation and Reclamation of Arid Lands, Geological Survey, and RnilroadL . power to amend has been abused to the point that it frequently amounts \irtually to origination. It has happened more thnn Mr. DU PONT. I ask that I may be excused from further once that the Sen.ate has struck out all exce11t an enacting duty upon the Committee on Education and Labor and the clause and substituted an entirely new bill. Committee on Expenditures in the War Department. It is In opposin·g the Senate committee amendment, which is to owing to grent committee duties on committees other than these strike out the House pro\ision for the reduction of the Army two that I mnke the request. by these five CaYalry regiments, I am advocating not on1y tho The VICE PRESIDE..1. TT. Without objection, the request of principle involved, but I am also aclyocating the particular the Senator from Delaware is complied. with, and he is excused legislation upon its own merits. I merely mentioned what I !rom further service upon the committees named. did because one of the objections that lrns been made to it, was E:\IPLOYEilS' LIABILITY AND WORK:\IEN'S COMPENSATION. that the House of Repre entativcs wns legislating upon an ap­ Mr. SMITH of Georgia. 1\Ir. PreRident, I desire to give propriation bill. The House of Representatives ought to legis­ notice that upon Monday next, immediately after the routine late upon appropriation bills, whercYer it has no other way of business, with the consent of the Senate, I shnll wish to address insuring and enforcing its will and the will of the people whom the Senate upon the bill ( S. 53 2) to provide an exclusive it directly represents except by control of appropriations, nnd remedy and compensation for accidental injuries, resulting in it is following the long-beaten path of the progress of the Eng­ disability or death, to employees of common carriers by rail­ llsh-speaking race when it does that. roads engaged in interstate or foreign commerce, or in the Dis­ But, in addition to that, there is no reason why, even if the trict of Columbia. principle be not well stateiso go into a battleship, an additional one for defense; I 1 956) making appropriation for the support of the Army for would be still more willing to sec it go into a great many other the fiscal year ending June 30, 1Dl3, and for other purposes. things of more importance to the American people than either. .i\lr. W .A.RREN. Defore proceeding further with the bill, I l\Ir. President, while I am on this subject I propose to direct ask the Senate to turn back to correct a date on page 7. In my remarks a little bit outside of the immeclinte question. I the amendment of the committee, in line 22, after the word lay down the proposition that this is the most c:x.tra>agant Gov­ " Inrch," I moye to strike out " second" and insert "twenty­ ernment that the white rnce is carrying on anywhere on the third," and, in the same line,· to strike out "se\en" and insert surface of the earth to-clay and with least excuse for large ex­ " ten," so as to read: "l\Iarch 23, 1910." penditures per capita, extravagant in the expenditure of money, The amendment was agreed to. witll an extravagance that is growing day by day, with addi­ The VICE PRESIDE~T. Without objection, the amendment tional employees, additional salaries, increased salaries, increased of the committee as amended is agreed to. The pending amend­ pro\isions for all departments of the Government of the United ment is the nmendment of the committee, to strike out the pro­ States. . Yiso, beginning with the word "Provid. d," in line 13, page 9. I hold in my hand a little book, which is very interesting, l\Ir. WILLIA~.\IS . .Mr. President, this bill as it came from the which I recommend to Senators to read, containing some lec­ Hou e contained. a proviso that upon and after the 1st day tures delivered at the Columbia Uni,ersity of New York by of July, 1012, there shall be 10 regiments of Carnlry and no Henry Jam~s Ford, sometime profcRsor of politics in Princeton more. In other words, the House of Representatives thought University. It is entitled "The Cost of Our National Govern­ that the pre"ent military force of the United States ought ·to be ment." I think some of you will be a little bit nstonished-none reduced by five regiments of Cn-rnlry. of the older Members of the Senate will be-to learn how much There is a great deal of difference of opinion, differ:ence of money this Government docs spend, what it amounts to per statement at any rate, as to what five regiments of Cavalry capita, and how it bas grown not only absolutely, hut per C'ap1ta. cost the United States per annum. I think that the cost of a The net disbursements of this Government in 1878 were $236,- carnlryman may be safely placed at about $1,200 a year in 064,327; in 1888 they had grown to $259,653.959; in 1898 they continental America and some 20 per cent more in the Philip- · had grown tq.$443,368,582; and in 1908 to $650,196,319. pines. nut howe\er that may be, ancl whateyer may be the To put the comparison in another way- amount of money that would be sa Yed per annum by the bill, ! am quoting now from a statemcn.t of George n . Cortelyou, ·it will be a very considerable amount, very much needed now, Secretary of the TreasUI"Y. under President Roosevelt, which fol­ and still more to be needed after a little while, after certain lows this statement and is quoted in this book- recent legislation of the two Houses goes into effect. To put the comparison in another way, which even more graphically I am a firm believer, l\fr. President, in the idea that the illustrates the expansion, the growth in ordinary expenses- House of Representatiyes of this Government, the only branch Ordinary expenses- of the GoYernment which is directly elected by the people, ought for carrying on tlJC Government, excluding interest on th.e public debt, to hold the purse -strings of the Nation. I . belie\e that the but including payments for pensions and for many publlc works, was Go-\·ernrnent of the United States woi1ld .be \ery· much better if from $135,000,000 in 1878 to ~G38,000,000 in HJOS, an increase of the House of Representatives were to assert itself and insist nearly 400 per cent in a generation. upon its constitutional right to hold the purse strings. In l\foanwhile Mr. President, the increase of population during Great Britain every muniment of English liberty O}VeS its this period, during which · expenditures· incrensed 400 per. cent, existence to the insistence of the House of Commons, the only was only 84 per cent. I · quote· the utterance of Chairman body there directly elected by the peopie, upon tliis principle. Tawney, at that time chairman of the Appropriations _Com- 1912. OONGRESSION AL· RECORD-SENATE. 4575

mittee of the House of Representatives, made March 4, 1909. derstood how and why it was dropped. That was all. So far Ile says : as the statement made by the Senator as to extra.·ragance, and In no period, except 1n time of war, have the expenditures of our so for-th, is concerned, I take no issue with him. . National Government increased so rapidly, both in the aggregate and per .Mr. WILLIAMS. Now, I want to carry on the painting of the capita, as these expenditures have increased during the past eight years. picture, and I le:rre that question for future discussion, merely Mr. WARREN. 1\Ir. President-- with this remark, that, so fur as I am concerned, I do- not The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Mississippi thin.! that committee ought to have been dropped. yield to the Senator from Wyoming? The per capita expenditure has increased from $1.34- Mr. WARREN. 1\fay I interrupt the Senator? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; certainly. Per head now, this is- Mr. WARREN. 1\Ir. Prei:;ident, has the Senator from Missis­ in the period from 1701 to 1796 to $8.lH in 1907. sippi oYerlooked the fact that in those years there has been this great growth in the country of river and harbor improvements, And it is more to-clay. If you count a family as consisting of five persons, that of the Panama. Canal, ancl other works of that kincl that are means that the Federal Government is taking from each family unusual and exceedingly valuable? in the United States more thnn $44.55 per annum, and yet we Mr. ;wn..,LIAMS. I haye not overlooked it. On the contrary, boast that we arc comparatively not tax riddeu. I state that I have just statecl that, while the country was increasing in there is not a civilized Government on the surface of the earth population 84 11cr rent, so out of a11 comparison wns the increase any more heaYily tax ridden, especially wil.cn you add to the of expenditures, that they were increasing 400 per cent-four $44.55 per annum which the Federal Goyernment expends the times as much ancl more. municipal, the State, and the county taxes in this country. Former Senator Aldrich, of Rhode Island, in a speech cleliv­ A great many people, I will say, lay a great deal of this blame crecl upon tllis floor on April 10, Hl09, said : upon pensions. We haye got to be fair as we go along. Of The rapidity with which our natio~al expenditures have increased within the lust three years is a source of anxiety .if not of alarm. course I think that recent pension legislation-and I voted Simultaneously with the reduction in receipts of $60,000.000. from Hl07 against it-was uncalled for; but the ratio of expenditures on to moo, we have had an increase in expenditures of $120,000,000. account of _pensio11s has declined since- 1869 from $4.32 per Growing out of that speech there was inaugurated a sort of capita to $1.!J2, so that this great increase in ex11cnditurcs is "joint high committee" for the purpose of inyestigating ex­ not eyen to be excused u11on the ground of gratitude to the old per\ditures and reducing them. The Senate repented of its soldier. It is nearly altogether due to legislnth·e, cxecutiye, reformntion soon aftenrnrds, and this great high commission, and Arm~ and Navy expenses; and the excuse made for so composed of the chairmen of several committees and all that, much of them as grow out of the Army and Navy is thnt we was allowed to go into "innocuous desuetude" at the beginning "went a world powering" .Here a few years ago; that we are of this Congress-the Congress in which we are now serving. very proud of having gone a world powering, ·and that now, "for l\Cr. WARR EN. 1\Ir. President-- the first time in our existence, we are a world power." We are The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator_from Mississippi no more of a world power now than we were before the Svanish­ yie1d to the Senator from Wyoming? American War began. We may have a little bit higher repu­ l\Ir. WILLIAMS. I do. tation as a world power amongst some ignorant people some­ Mr. WARREN. 1\Iay I say, there, that the committee which where, but not amongst intelligent people. We went out into the Senator terms "a joint high commission" met during the a war with poor, old, decrepit Spain, ready to totter and fall la st Congress and acted as the Sena tor says. It provided for at any moment if pushed. All that was necessary was to meet a joint legislatiYe commission to work up economies, budgets, her, either on land or on sea, and she would shriYel, because and so forth, but its work was never acted upon at the other there was no power, no strength behind her nor in her. Nobody end of the Capitol, nor was there any corresponding committee who has any sense has eyer considered the Federal Government to which measures might be referred for conference in the usual of the United States or the people of the United States any way. So when the Senate met in the present Congress it stronger in a military or naval sense because they whipped seemed to be satisfactory-we have hen.rd no word to the con­ Spain. The State of New York could have done it by itself trary on either side of the Chamber-that that committee shonld and unassisted, so far as that is concerned; and I think if Texas be dropped until we could get cooperation on the House sicle bad been allowed a free sweep at it she would ha.Ye made a through the appointment of a similar committee-a budget com­ yery good fight. mittee, if you please. This thing of world powering I have a contempt for. I haye Mr. WILLIA!.\1S. Mr. President, the Senator from Wyoming a contempt for anybody, individual or nation, who does not gv evidently has not accurately taken the spirit in which I am along and attend to his own business and let other people making these remarks. I am not attacking the Senator nor alone. I have just as great a contempt for the white man's the Republican Pal·ty nor anybody else. I am arraigning the undertaking to rule the brown man in the brown man's country meth_od of administrntion of this Government, and I am as well as I have for any sort of legislation looking toward making aware as is the Senator from Wyoming of the fact that most the brown or the black man rule the white man in the white of these expenditures grow out of the disposition of the inui­ man's country. vidua l Members of Congress in both Houses to get everything What have you done as a result of this world powering? out of the National Treasury they can for their States or "dis­ Haye you increased your military strength? No; you have de- tricts," for the purpoi:e of making themselves strong at home. . creased it. What sort of a game of chess were you plnying? I am well aware of the fact that part of it grows out of this, Before that you hRd all your men in line ancl you could make too, that the Federal Government has no budget of any descrip­ whatever gambit move you pleased. Now, you ha-ve subordi­ tion; it does not attempt to adapt its expenditures to its revenue nated your entire game to a pawn called the Philippine Archi­ in any way; it divides responsibility in each House amongst pelago and another pawn away out in front of your men and members of committees, who are instructed by the rules of the beyond support by them called the Hawaiian Islands. Yon Houses themsel ,·cs to keep their proceedings secret; so much have not added to your strength a particle. You have added so, that it is agninst the rule of both Houses to mention any­ to your weakness. No possession that you took has added to thing upon the floor that happens in a committee. I am ar­ your strength except Porto Rico. That does, to a certain ex­ raigning the system whereby this sort of thing grows up; and in tent, do away with the necessity of quite so large a fleet in orflcr to reach the arraignment I am furnishing you with a defense of the American Mediterranean, and what hold you picture of the thing. I stated, in connection with that com­ have on naval stations in Cuba, to a large extent, strengthens mittee, that it had been allowed to go into innocuous desuetude; you there. It· bas not been any time since an officer of this and with that statement surely the Senator from Wyoming will Government said-and I believe he is right-that if we engage express no cliffercncc. in a war with any great power anywhere near our match in Mr. WARREN. 1\1r. President, if the Senator--· militnry and naval ·strength, the fi'rst thing we would have to Mr. WILLIAMS . . Whosoever's fault it was, this seeming do would be to let the Philippines go and to look for their effort to do something died out, died .aborning almost. Now, recovery after beating the enemy elsewhere when we came to I yield to the S0nator from Wyoming. make a treaty of peace at the end of the war. Mr. WARREN. If I han~ misunderstood or misrepresented Mr. DU PONT. Mr. President-- the Senator, I beg his pardon. The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Mississippi Mr. WILLIAMS. Oh, no; I did not say "misrepresented"; yield to the Senator from Delaware? I _said "misunderstood." Mr. DU PONT. I sbould like to snv to the Senator from · Mr. WARREN. The .only reason why I sought to in.terrupt Mississippi that, if he will look at tho Hawaiian Island from a· the Senator was that tl1ere has been some criticism directed, military standpoint and investigate that subject, be will see I think unduly, to the older Members of the . Senate because of that they are really the key to the- seclll'ity of the whole of the dropping of that committee, and I wished to have it y n- our Pacific co·ast, and that the· naval station there is not out 4576 OONGRESSION AL RECORD-SENATE . APRIL 11,

of line in tbe defense of tbe country, but, on the contrary, it is Senator. I am sorry not to see him in his sent. Ile was then a most important point to tbe whole of our western sc:i.co11st. a Member of llie House of Reprcsentati•es. I refer to the Sen­ l\Ir. WILLIAJHS. .Jfr. President, the Ilawaiiau Islantls are n.tor from Ohio [J\Ir. Bu:&TON] . He was speaking of the habit 1,200 miles, at their closest point o-f contact; from the Pacific of the Senate lo inc-rease appropriation bills as they cnme from coast; they are nenrly half as far away from us as is the coast the House. .:. ""ow, understand me, I am not charging the Senate of Ireland; and if n e got into a war at all and undertook to with anything. I know how it happens for the most part. defend tbe Hawaiian Islands, we would lla•e to divide the fleet .Members pf the House themselves come over and beg Senators for tlie defense of continental Unitee the Philippine Islands, as the Senator infcrontia.lly quotes. Herc is n cuse where the and I remember thnt a distingufslled Republican rose upon the Sennte proposes to fulfill the law ns it stands and nppropeiate floor of the House and asked by whut warrnnt or right did the the money for the Army as the Congress of the United States gentleman from Mississippi charge a Republican administration has constituted it. On the other hand, the House undertakes in in power witll the idiocy of contemplating such a step. I said :m appropriation bill to put in general legislation which, by its 1by the right nnd warrant that a student of history has, who has own general rules and by our Senate rules, should be exclues of the people desire to decrease expenditures and acute, the statement was made time and again that the acquisi­ thereby, perhaps, decrease taxation, we stand in their pathway. tion of the Philippine Islands would be the greatest step in the As to the p.t:inciple of putting general legislation. upon an appro­ way of weakening. our military power that could possibly be priation bilT, there has not been a time in the history of any undertaken by the United States Government; and it is txue. English-speaking race that sought and attained freedom when :;\Ir. WILLI.AMS. In other words, to sum up that phase of the House which directty represented the people did not resort the nrgument, we are less of a war power to-day for any pur­ to thnt method when they tllought the question was important pose of national defense or national aggression tban we were enough. As I stated. in the beginning, there is not a munimunt prior to the Spanish-American War, because we have got pawns of English or Ame1ican liberty that is not dne to that very out in the middle of the chessboard that would have to be pro­ prececlent at some tfme and somewhere exercised. tected or surrendered and to the defense of which our whole 1\.Ir. CL.Tl\IMINS. Mr. President-- game must be subordinated~ The VICE. PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Mississippi I want in connection with this immediate question, from yield to the Sena.tor from Iowa? which I have strayed, to quote the language of a distinguished Mr. WILLIAMS_. I yield. 1912. OONGRESSION AL RECORD-SENATE. 4577

l\fr. CUMMINS. This subject is comparatively new to me, .l\Ir. W ARRE~. !he ~enator treated the subject as if it ap­ and I nm listening to the obscrvationi; of the Senator from plied to approprrnt10n bills as \\ell as reYenue bills. Does the Mississippi with very great interest. I desire to ask him a Senator think that appropriation bills must under the Constitu- question. Is the rule which he invokes in behalf of the House tion, originate in the House? ' of Representatives to be applied conversely; that is to say, it Mr. WILLIAMS. Bills making appropriations are bills which the Honse authorizes the expenditure of $70,000,000, has the C?~e under the term "raising revenue" as much as bills pro­ Senate any rigllt to reduce it to $25,000,000? · ndmg ~·e1~nue. T~ey raise revenue for the Go1ernment by l\ir. WILLIA.MS. Yes; I think so. I can not undertake-­ appropr~atmg supplles out of money in the Treasury. If no Mr. CUl\11\HNS. If the judgment of the House with regard ~oney is already there,. t~en supplies must be raised by tax to the expenditmes of the Government is to control, why should bills. When an a.pproprrnt10n bill comes to the Senate it comes the Senate--- as it passed the House, and when the Senate makes any change 1\f r. WILLIAMS. The Senate would have a right to increase in it it is entered as an amendment upon tbe House bill. There or decrease. "rhe Senator is using the word "right" in the has never been any dispute about the fact-the Senate ne,·er sense of power-constitutional power? has disputed it-that the House a.lone has the right to originate l\fr. CUi\Il\lINS. Certainly. bills making appropriations. l\fr. WILLIAMS. To either increase or decrease. There is no Mr. W .ARREN. The Senator is entirely mistaken. The Sen­ dispute about that. ate has originated appropriation bills. Mr. CUMMINS. I am not using it in the sense of power. I l\Ir. WILLI.Al\IS. Not general- appropriation bills. am using it in the sense of propriety. l\Ir. W~illREN. It is a matter of habit, of general practice, Mr. WILLIAMS. It depends upon the extent to which they as I agree, that they originate in the House. undertake to nmend. It is very hard to draw the line on one Mr. WILLIAMS. I have not time to go into that now. side of which it shn.11 assume the power; on the other side of l\1r. W.ARREN. But there is nothing in the Constitution which it is contrary to the spirit of our institutions, when done which provides that appropriation bills shall originate in the by the Senate. But whatever that line may be, on one side of it House. it is a legitimate thing and on tlle other side of it it is a perver­ Mr. WILLIA.MS. A revenue bill as defined in Great Britain sion of the spirit not only of our institutions but of the insti­ from w~ich we. got the idea., was not only a bill levying n tax: tutions of tlle English-speaking race everywhere, because this but a bill makmg general appropriations raising or supplying clause was put into the Constitution merely in imitation of the revenues to the ExecutiYe, and the Senate of the United States, well-known and long-guarded powers of the House of Corn­ from its very first session down until now, has recognized tbat mo~s over "money bills." principle, and this is the first time I have ever heard disputed the proposition that n general appropriation bill has to originate l\fr. CUl\fi\IINS. I do not think the Senator from l\Iississippi in the House of Representatives. quite understands my question, or at least my purpose. I think l\fr. WARREN. I am not disputing-- we both recognize the rule of the Constitution and we both Mr. WILLI.AMS. And in the Senator's entire service here recognize tlie relation of the House of_IlepresentatiYes to the people of the United States. The Senator from Mississippi there has not been a general appropriation bill considered by mys practically that when the House has decided that the this body that did not originate there, because this language­ military establishment of the United States shall be reduced bills raising re1enue-covers both descriptions of money 1Ji11s. with the hope of reducing expenditures, although we have the l\Ir. W .AHREN. I am willing for the Senator to quote from legal power to restore the expenditure or to attempt to do it, practice; I am \\i11ing that he should quote the British Go\ern­ we ought not to do it in view of the relations of the House of ment; but I do not believe that in the Constitution an appro­ Representatives to the people. priation bill is confinetl for its origination to the House; hence I Now, recently the House of Representatives passed a bill en­ ask the Senator to confirm his assertion. larging pensioils, which involYed an expenditure, as we a.re told Mr. WILLIAMS. If the practice is not owing to the Senate's of i::ornething like $75,000,000 per year in addition to tlle ex~ construction of the Constitution, the practice neyer would hnve penditnres already authorized. We took the liberty of reducing existed, because there was no other basis upon which the Senate that incre:1sed allowance to something like twenty or twenty:five would lrn.ve founded the practice; and I leave the general prac­ million dollars per year. My query is whether the same rule tice of the Nation in construction to answer the Senator. By applies to the pension bill as is sought to be applied to the the way, if the Senator will turn to Woodrow Wilson's book upon our constitutional Government he will there find, though I am military esb1blishment.. not certain-it has been some time since I read it-quite n i\Ir. WILLIAMS. As a. question of power, yes. As a question history of this matter. of propriety and right, no; a.nu the reason of it is this: The l\Ir. BRIGGS. l\1r. President-- House of RepresentatiYes, directly elected by tbe people is put The VICE PRESIDENT. Docs the Senator from Mississippi there to llolcl the purse strings of the Government in the interest yield to the Senator from New Jersey? of the peo11le, f~r the purpose of keeping <.lown public expendi­ Mr. WILLIAMS. Certainly. tures as low as it can; and the Senate ought to remember that. But I will go further. I say if you study the institutions of the Mr. BRIGGS. I should like to ask the Senator if the book English-speaking people which gave rise to this Constitution and was written before or after 1910? which. gave rise to this i1rovision, you will find that the thing of Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sometimes funny myself, but right all thmgs that the House of Commons was most jealous a.bout now is not the time. was the size of the Army, and there never was a time when the Mr. BACON. If the Senator from l\Iississippi will permit me House of Lore.ls dared, e1en in the time when the House of Lords I wish to say something in response to the question propounded directly. amended bills, to trench upon the question of how large by the Senator from Iowa [Ur. Cm.arms]. The Senator from a standmg army they should have in Great Britain. That was a Iowa asked the Senator from Mississippi if by the reasoning question for tlle representatiYes of the people to decide and not which he was then pursuing it would not be equally true tha't for the representa ti.ves of the orders, and we here, althoug]J. we the Senate could not with propriety reduce an appropriation are not representatiYes of the orders, are representatives of the made by the House. :States, of territoria Ii ties, of sectional -divisions. I simply wish to call the attention of the Senator from Iom1 to this fact: All students of English constitutional history will Mr. WARREN. Will tlrn Senator from Mississippi allow me? recall that originally the taxes were levied by the Crown. As . l\fr. WILLIAMS. Certainly. . the interests of the English peop1e developed, there arose a con­ Mr. W .ARREN. The Senator alludes to the constitutional tention on the part of the House of Commons, which was recog­ rigllts of the House with respect to appropriation bills. I nized, that no tax should be levied without the consent of the freely admit I am a bit rusty concerning the Constitution. I representatives of the people as found in the House of Com­ wish the Senator would insert in the RECORD the part of the mons, and incidentally that no appropriation should be made. ~onstitution to which he refers. He may be right, and I should Now, the point is this: That contention was not because of llke to read it, or ha.Ye him read it to me. tlie right claimed to fix the amount which should be appro­ Mr. WILLIAMS. I shall be glad to do it. I did not know priated, but to limit the amount. In other words, the entire that I needed to do it for a single Senator. I think I can repeat interest was that it should not exceed that which the House it substantially from memory: was wi~ling to appropriate. Therefore, if the Crown, to whom All .bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Repre­ these supplies were granted, shou1d have said, "I will not use ~~n~~b~~:~fn~~t the Senate may propose_ or concur with amendments as that much of it," it would have been in no manner in contra­ vention of the contention of the House, which claimed itself the l\fr. W ARRE..i.~. That does not say " appropriation bills." right to fix the amount of the approp:dation. It is only when l\Ir. WILLI.Al\IS. I had no idea it would be necessary to read it exceeded it that the p1tinciple would have been destroyed, not" the provisions of the Constitution. when it was made less.

/ '4578 OONGRESSION AL RECORD-SENATE. APRIL 11,

Mr. WILLIAMS. Now; ltfr: President, I am going on to dr:ny· Mr. WARREN. Will th-0 Senator permit me? the picture of national extrav;ignncc us well as I c::m. :M:r. Ford l\1r. WILLIAMS. I yield. suyEI, and says with absolute truth: Mr. W ARilEN. Will the Senator tell me the salaries of the It appears from statements compiled under the direction of the members of the House of Lords? appropriation committees, in the flrst session of the ·sixtieth Con.gress, Mr. WILLIA..\IS. · The members of the House of Commons that the number of new offices created in excess of those abolished ag- gregated 10,G82, with salaries aggregating $0,087,087.50. receh·e no salary, neither do the members of the House of ... ::r * •:• ,.. * ,, Lords. The Official Register for l!JOD (commonly known as the Blue Book) Mr. WARREN. Yery well. contnins a list of Federal ofliccholders aggregating 370,065. Mr. WILLIAMS. nut, us I understand this statement, sal- o,er a third of n rnilliou. aries arc not counted in, In 181G the number was G.R.27: in 18G3, 4D,212. From 1871 to 1881 Mr. WARREN. No; but let me ask :mother question. the number increased from 53,917 to 107,095. Mr. WILLIAMS. This is a little over ten times as much Double. for our Senate or House of Representatives aa for the British In 18DD the number was 208,215. Honse of Lords ancl the House of Commons. Nearly doTible again fTorn 1881 to 1889. Mr. WARREN. Will the Senator let me finish my question? So in the decade to moo the number was increased by- Mr. WILLI.A.MS. Yes. . Not to but- Mr. WARREN. Would the Senator then have Members o-f by lGl,850, or over 10,000 n ycnr~ Increased by over lG,OOO new office- the Legislature of the United States, our Congress, the Senate holders a year for that pei·iod. and the House, without salaries, so . that only rich men could Mr. President, the money that gets into the Treasury and occupy those places? is paid out of the Treasury does not fall like the manna of God Mr. WILLIAMS. Oh, no. from heaven did upon the children of Israel in the wiluerness. Mr. WARREN. That is the key of the situution. Every ·single dollar of it must come out of the pocket of some Mr. WILLIAi'1S. No ; it is not. citizen of the United States somewhere. Whether it be levied Mr. WARREN. The British Government spends so little directly or indirectly not n do1lar can get into the Treasury till money-- that is not taken first out of the pocket of the citizen. There Mr. WILLIAl\IS. The Senator can go off and multiply $7,500 may be citizens so foolish that they do not know they are paying by 96, ancl then he can multiply $7,500 by 400, ::md he can ad

The public printing of the United Stntes is n bottomlrss pit of necessary to meet all continuing nnd permanent nppropriations, shall exceed the estimated revenues the Secretary of the Tre:i.sury shall trans­ expenditures. The entire amount appropriated in lOOS by the mit tlle estimates to Congress as heretofore required by law and at once British Parliament was $3,740,000, which is three and three transmit a detailed statement of all of said estimates to the !'resident. quarter millions in round· numbers. To defray the o-:x:pcnse of to tbe end thnt be may, in g-iving Congress information of the state of the Union and in recommending to their consideration such measures as providing stationery, printing, paJ)er, binding, 11rinted books he may jndge necessary, acl\ise the Congress bow in his judgment the for the public sen-ice, to pay snlnries and expem;es of llie sta­ estimated n11propriations could with least injury to the puul!c service be tionery office, and for sundry miscellaneous senices, including reduced so as to ·briilg the appropriations within the ef:timated revenues, or, if such reduction he not in his judgment practicable without undue reports of parliamentary debates, three and three-quarter mil­ injury to the public service,. that be may recommend to Congress such lions. It is simply imvossible to get at the corre.vornli11g con­ loans or new taxes us mny be necessary to cover the deficiency. gre!'sional expenditures hero in their utmost detail. Remern!Jer, tllese :figures I ga-ve you for Great Britain were I believe that may possibly be the turning point to some ex~ tlle entire printing !Jill of the Go-vernment, but the congressional tent; I tllink it is almost inrnlunblc legislation; I regard it as expenclitures alone here in 1908 incluclccl $6,394,810 for the Pu!J- almost a rcyolui.ionary new departure upon the rigllt si0ard, think, yesterday or the day before, ·as an utterance of the Gen­ or other similar body, or any members thereof, or for expenses in con­ eral of the Army somewhere. I hope thnt on tllis side of llie nection with any work or the resull:s of any work or action of any commission, council, board, or other similar body, unless the creation Chamber nnernment SEC. 7. Immediately upon the receipt of the regular annual estimates hnYe not only been increased but have been multiplied in the of appropriations needed for the various branches of the Government it Inst 20 years, and necesEarily the expenditures ha\e more thn.n shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury to estimate as nearly as may be the revenues of the Governmont for the ensuing fiscal year kept pace with tlic per capita increase of po1mlntion. The Fed­ and if the estimates for appropriations, including the estimated amount eral Goverrnneut formerly con:finecl itself to functions which I 4580 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. APRIL 11, think were within the contemplation of the founders of the Mr. WILLIAMS. It snys "to originate appropriations." I GoYernment, but in twenty years, more than in the hundred ye[\rs will go back and look through the RECORD and I will · get as that vreceded it, I think the Federal Go\ernment has O\er­ near as I can the body of the discussions that haYe taken place stepped the limits originally contemplated for it, and has ranged upon that subject, and, with the permission of the Senate, I will out into a vast field of functions and activities which neces­ insert them in the RECORD either with my present remarks or sarily invol"rn an immense increase in the expenditures, even at some later date; if the Senate will give me that permission. though there were no ex:trayagance. I think w"c are suffering The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, permission is from both. We are suffering from this vast and unfortunate in­ granted. crease in the functions of the Federal Goyernmcnt and from the i\lr. FOSTER. l\fr. President, before the Senator from l\Iis­ \ery great e..'!:tra,agancc in supplying the funds which may be sissippi lea\es the floor, I should like to ask him if, in bis thought needed for the pe1·forrnance of those functions. opinion, should the House provision become incorporated into Mr. WILLIA.l\1S. Mr. President, there is undoubtedly a great this bill and become a law, would it result in a rednction of deal of truth in that, but that does not account for the fact of. the Army by firn regiments; in other words, would the enlisted · the expenditures. That would account for the fact that the men of tbe firn regiments be dismissed or discharged from the expenditures ought to baye increased, but it would not account­ United States Army'? for the fact that they . ought to ha Ye increased beyond the in­ Mr. WII...iLIA~iS . The Senator means at once, before their crease of population in a great, new country, with a high birth several periods of enlistment have expired? rate and an immense immigration rate. Then the Senator from l\1r. FOSTER Yes. Georgia lea\es out, while he is making his statement, the fact Mr. WILLI.AMS. Answering at first blush, I shonlu think tt.nt when the figures which I ha\e quoted were given at the not; but that would ue the effect of the legislation, at any rate, beginning of one of these periods the per- capita expenditure whether it took place immediately or whether it took place for Urn payment of interest upon the public debt and for the later. sinking fund to extinguish the public debt, as well as the per Mr. FOSTER. It is provided, howe\er, that the provision capita for pensions, wns greater than it now is. eliminating fi\e regiments of Cavalry shall go into effect on the 1\Ir. WARREN. Mr. President, just a moment. I do not like 1st day of July, 1Dl2. Now, does the Senator think that this to allow the matter to stand exactly as it now does in regard to Government has the moral rigllt-it may ha>e the power; but the powers and right of the Committee on .Appropriations of the the moral right-to dismiss those men from the senic~ who Senate, as Yiewed or expressed by the Senator from Mississippi ha\e enlisted for three years? [Mr. WILLIAMS]. It seems to me that, representing the .Ap­ l\lr. WILLI.AMS. Undoubtedly. At the end of the Ci\il War propriations Committee for the moment, I ought to say that the we dismissed hundreds of thousands of men who had enlii;ted House and the Senate ha \e considered the urn tter before, and for a year or two beyond what was the actual expiration of it is not claimed that the right of the House of Representatives the war. to originate appropriation bills is either a constitutional right • Mr. FOSTER We have the power-- or that it has uecome a -vested right by long practice. I ask to Mr. WILLIAMS. Any GoYernment anywhere has the right haYe a couple of paragraphs read from the compilation Prece­ to reduce its army whenever it pleases. dents and Decisions of Points of Order in the Senate relating to l\fr. FOSTER. I do not doubt the power; I United States Senate, page G3, as longer than for a certain period. It is just like abolishing an follows: office. You may reduce the numuer of clerks here in a depart­ ment. It is true you ha\e employed them, but that does not The He always been upon-a different basis than possessions of this Go,crnment, requires that we should haYc n appropriation bills for specific purposes. I am aware of the larger standing Army than would be required if we clicl not fact tliat there has been some difference of opinion. There haxe ha \e those insular possessions. been differences of opinion further than those indicated in the I wish to say in this connection that the Senator from l\Iissis­ matter which has been read. The insistence upon the literal sippi can not possibly have any greater objection to the reten­ meaning of this clause has gone so far that at one time the tion of those insular possessions than I have. I was honestly Sen.ate insisted tllat, while they did not ha\e the right to raise opposed to their acquisition at the time and I haye been honestly reyenues, they had a. right to reduce them, totally forgetting opposed to their retention e-rer since. But we ha\e those pos­ the historic meaning of the phrase "bills to raise re\erme," sessions, and we arc in honor bound to act so as to maintain which means bills to originate reyenue. I think-and with the our possessions as long ns we wish to do so. I wisll to see us permission of the Senate, I will try to execute the threat-that lose them, but not to lose them under compulsion from any I can tra\el through the precedents and show that this is a foreign power. Rather would I have that we held on to them -very exceptional case. So far ·as that is concerned-- foreYer in spite of any ills that I think may come to us from Mr. WARREN. The re olution is general, and not only their retention. applies to the specific bill but says "bills appropriating money" Now, if the fact that the House grounded its action, in addi­ without exception. tion to the economy question, upon the fact that the service \ 1912. OONGRESSION AL RECORD-. SEN ATE. 4581 \ I wns not in equilibrium, as it were, that there were too mnny the United States, of having assisted to bring this shame and Cavalry in proportion to the Infantry, tllen I think tllat in­ humiliation on my country; and feeling as I clo on this ques­ stend of cutting down the C::rvnlry it would be far better to in­ tion, every dictate of nntionnl pride and national patriotism crease tlle Infantry until the equilibrium be restoreu. impels me to oppose the views just adrnnced by the Senn.tor It is i

A statement is submitted herewith showing the relnUve cost Pay: Clerks, messengers, laborers at headquarters, divi­ sions, departments, pos ts commanded by general ! of n regiment of Infantry and n regiment of Ca>alry. This officers------$3ul,Z4o.oo statement purports to show the overhead charges which enter Officers. Staff departments : into the calculation, arnl nmong the oYerhead charges the ap­ Adjutant General's office ------110,500. 00 Inspector General's Department______7u,ooo.oo propriations mnde in the legislaU-ve, executiYe, and judicial Quartermaster's Department------­ 340,900.00 appropriation act for salaries for the se>eral bureaus and offices Subsistence Department ------­ 18:J, 280. 00 of the Wnr De1mrtment are included. As much of the work in Merlical Department------1,G2!.>,GG0.00 Ordnance Department ______284,220.00 some of the bureaus is purely ci"vil, and in others relates to the Pay Department ______mo, 4GO. oo militia as well as to the existing Army, it is e>ident that the ·Judge Advocate General's Department______55,000. 00 entire charge for such serYices should not be included in this Retired officers ______3,362,sno.oo 70, 000. 00 . calculation. H owe\·er, as worked out, the o>erhead charges for 2,147,670.00 an Infantry regiment nnd for a Cn>alry regiment are nearly the ~~mMiscellaneous:~ ~:l~~~~d pay: aiii~:~======Hospital matrons, dental surgeons, snme, so tbnt they can be omitteu from consideration without contract sm·gcons. Bxtra duty, enlisted men, etc ___ _ 4, 177,692.00 Regular supplies, Quartermaster's Department______8, 33:3, 387. nil changing the result. , Incidental expenses, Quartermaster's Department______2,100,000.00 Eliminating on~ rhead charges; we find that the annual cost of narrkcks and quarters ______1,8GG,OGO. OO an Infantry regiment is $488,369 and of a Ca•alry regiment is Barracks aoo quarters, Philippine Islands ______G00,000.00 'l'ranspo1·ta ti on and supplies __ __ ------11,028,Glri. 06 $629,78 ; that is, the Carnlry regiment costs only 28.D per cent noads, walks, wharves, and drainage ______44fl, 31f). 7fl more than the Infantry regiment. Water and sewers ------2, 2uo, oo:~ . 21 The ratio of cost of an Infantry regiment for one year in time Equipment of officers' school at military posts ______0,850.00 of peace to the cost of a Ca •airy regiment for the &1.me. period Construction and repair of hospitals ______4130,000.00 Quarters for hospital stewards------­ 10,000.00 is as 1 is to 1.120. or approximately as 1 is to li. This plainly Shooting galleries and ranges------12i3,D85.00 shows that the wisest place to exercise economy is in reduction Army War College ______12.700. 00 of the overhead charges and not in a reduction of the number l\t:edlcnl and Hospital Department_:______700,000.00 Library, Surgeon General's office ______10,000. 00 of enlistecl men in the Army. ' Army Medical Museum ______G,000.00 In conclusion, the hardships caused by the proposed reduc­ Dental surgeons ------330,000.00 Trusses, artificial limbs, etc ______7,000. 00 tions will fall upon the noncommissionecl officers, from sergeants Repairs of Army Medical Museum ______major down to corporals, who constitute, as has been well 10,000.00 Ordnance Service ------­ 337,000.00 stated, the backbone of the Army. The noncommissioned officers Ammunition for reserve supply, firearms and salutes, can not be absorbed as such, for there are no places for them, military posts ------­ 500,000. 00 Repairs at arsenals ------530,400.00 and unless they are pro•ided for by law as extra noncommis­ 1\Iilenge ------G00,000.00 sioned officers they must be reduced to pri•ates. 1\iilitary post exchanges, schools, etc ______40,000.00 T·he VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator from Delaware will Total overhead charges ______45, 740, 740.45 suspend for a moment. The hour of 4 o'clock having arrived, the Chair lays before the Senate the unfinished business, which Total enlisted force in or~anizations of the Army, in- cluding Signal Corps, Porto IUcan Regiment, and will be stated. Philippine Scouts------$74, orm The SECRET A.RY. A bill ( S. 3175) to regulate the immigration Regiment of Infantry, total enlisted ______8Gfl of aliens to· and the residence of aliens in the United States. Regiment of Cavalry, total enlistcd------­ 854 Percentage of regiment of Infantry to total enlisted Mr. LODGE. I ask that the bill be temporarily laid aside. 1. 173 The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, the request of Percentageforce ------of regiment of Cavalry------to total enlisted the Senator from Massachusetts is complied with. The Senator 1.153 Amountforce of overhead------charges to be borne by regiment from Delaware will proceed. of InfantrY------$536,644.41 Mr. DU PONT. I will resume the reading of my statement. Amount of overhead charges to be borne by regiment of CavalrY------$527,494.4G It is true the horses belonging to the fi•e Cavalry regiments Total enlisted men entitled to rations and clothing ___ _ 83,762 can be sold and the proceeds covered into the Treasury, but one Percentage for regiment of Infantry ______1. OST of the greatest difficulties experienced in organizing a Ca•alry Percentage for regiment of Cavalry ______1. om ======regiment in tim

Overhead- charges ______Regiment of Infantry. · _ ware that· in actual ser-rice tile number of enlisted men is about $536,644.41 50 per cent of the possible number? PaY------~------317,860.56 Snbsistcncc ______:.______03, (i78. 22 l\ir. WAR REN. .About GO per cent of enlisted men. Clothing ______.:. ______50,826. rn Small-arms firing ______10, '551. 00 l\Ir. BACON. That is what I wante, but it may be strengthened in time of war to a tracts for the Army beyond two years? little over 100. Mr. BACON. No; there is a distinct provision in the Con­ Mr. DU PONT. That would be about 800 to a regiment and stitution that appropriations for the support of the Army shall l 5 regiments of 800 would be 12,000. I suppose there ar~ ten not be made for a period exceeding two years. or eleven thousand of Cavalry. Mr. WARREN. Ily way of contract. l\ir. BACON. Am I to understand, then, from the reply of Mr. BACON. The Senator from North Carolina kindly hands both the Senator from Wyoming and the Senator from Dela- me the book. XLVIII--288 4584 OONGRESSION AL RECORD-SENATE . APRIL 11'.."l ~~--~~~~~-.-~~~~~~~~~ i l\fr. WARREN. If the Senator will rmrclon me a moment, l\Ir. WARREN. The Senator understancls, of course, that I calculations of that kincl do not come into what I understood am not a lawyer nor a judge, and I do not have at my hands to be the question of tlle Senator from North Carolina, because the prececlents. I find them when I need them. The iclea of passing oyer one Congress of course the matter is taken care undertaking to erul>arrass rue in fuat way does not embarrass · of in the next. me at all. Ji Ur. Il..l.C01 ~. But I am asking whether the practice which I Mr. BACON. Nothing was further from my purpose. 1 understand tlle Senator from Wyoming to say is one which l\Ir. 'WARREN. I am simply taking the practical side of it exists, of 11nying soldiers the regular amount intended for and telling the Senator what has happenecl. · their pay without an appropriation, is not a violation of the l\Ir. Il..ACON. I am not speaking of the fact that it has clause of the Constitution which I now read. In the enumera. happened, but I am speaking about the question wllether it tion of the powers of Congress we lla\"e: was authorized when it did happen. To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules Ur. 'VARHE T. I \Vill state to the Senator that in 1877 there conccrnin~ captures on land and water. was a disagreement l>etween the two Houses by reason of tbe 1 And, then, the next enumerated power is this: provision contairied in the House bill known as tlle posse To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that comitatus clause, and the bill failed to become a law, and there- u!'e shall be for a longer term than two years. upon the ·war Department issued orders for tll.e supply of tll.e There could not be a more drastic limitation than that; and, Army. General Order No. 49, of 1877, announced that there as I said, it is one peculiar to itself. There is no other pro- were no funds for the supp1ies after July 1, 1877, and it "·ent >isi.on in tlle Constitution which is at all comparable to it. on to say that, under section 3732 of the Revised Statutes, Let me say tllat there is by implication a general law that purchases could be made of clothing, subsistence, forage, fuel, there can be no payment of money, except money which is ap· quarters, and transportation. propriated. When it came to the question of the payment of Tlleu General. Order No. 51, of 1877, announced that there soldiers and the support of the Army, a power which if left in wns no pay for the Army after June 30, and it publisllcut the Ur. w A.RREN. l\fr. President-- question is whether tbere is any law that autllorizes it. It is Mr. BACON. If the Senator will permit me just a moment, not a matter that presents an impossible situation wllcre it the conclusion is this: When Congi·ess makes an appropriation can not be dealt with. Of course it is always known in ad.­ for a term of two years, complying literally with the Constitu- vance when the Army appropriation is going · to expire, n.llCl tion-it is true that it is generally made for one year, but if tllere is nm11lc time within which Congress can be conveneision and one without any other companion in the Constitution. issued by either one or the other take the place of an a11pro- It lays it as a direct and an express prohibition. priation by Congress. I confess I ne,er knew the fact that there was any such Mr. LODGE rose. practice in the Government. l\lr. BACON. The Senator from Massachusetts [l\lr. LonaE] l\lr. W.A.RilEN. There is no such practice. The Senator is desired to interrupt me? laboring tinder a wrong construction of my remarks. l\1r. LODGE. No; I will wait until the Senator is through. :Mr. BACON. I misunderstood the Senator. ; 1·::.. l\1r. BACON. I beg pardon. There is only one other word to Mr. WARREN. It is not a common practice. say. The Senator from Wyoming spoke of not being a lawyer l\lr. BACON. I am not speaking about a common practice. and of my desire to emban·ass him. Of course there was notll- It is not necessary that it should be a common practice, but ing furtller from my mind. But when I asked by what an· if it is e\er done at all-- thority that action had been reviewed and approvec.l, I under­ .clr. WAR.REN. The Senator has been given a precedent. stood the Senator to say that it haut without any desire to l\Ir. WARREN. Oh, if the Senator from Georgia will yield embarrass the Senator whatever I inquired what court had ever to me. made such a decision. Mr. BACON.. Certainly . If the court has made it, I should like to llave it made known, l\lr. WARREN. I do not know of its hating been done on because I confess it hns entirely escaped my attention, and I any occasion since I have been in the Senate and since I have very greatly doubt whether tlle Senator upon investigation will been on either one of the two committees, the Committee on find that any court, high or low, bas e\er determined that hy nn Military Affairs or the Committee on Appropriations; uut it order of the Executive department, or any one of the depart­ must be possible, and it seems to have been done in the past in ments, money can be paid out which has not been nppropri:ited the one instance I ha•e mentioned. We provide in this appro· by Congress unless there is a general statute which authorizes priation bill, as we hase heretofore provided, tlmt all funds it. In that case, of course; it would be clone by the autllority of handled by the Paymaster General for pay of the Army-except Congress. mileage-shall constitute one fund from which he sha11 pay hlr. 1\1.ARTIJ\'E of New Jersey. Mr. President, I confess thnt tlle Army, and while one specific account may be short another the coming of this proposition to the Senate is a source of genu­ wil1 be large. Since I have been connected with these affairs inc surprise to me, for were we not told a few weeks ago tllat there has ne\er been a time, with perhaps the one exception we were li>ing in n new era, that n new c1awn, the da,vn of noted, when by actnal paying out of money they have exhausted peace bau come? Did we not pass n few weeks ago the nrl>itra­ the entire appropriation l>efore Congress could meet and act. tion treaties, and were we not tolcl then iu eloquent words l>y Tl.le men are paid, but oftentimes the department comes in for the Senator from l\1nssachrn:;etts [:Mr. LODGE], the Senator from a deficiency in December and asks for an aclditional fund to Ohio [Mr. BuRTOs], nnll tlle Senutor from New Yor1' [:\fr. carry them around until tlle next July, the beginning of the new RooT] that the passage of tllose treaties would lead to the dis­ fi.scal year. I only gave the one case to show tllat it had. been armament of the great powers of the world.; tllat rifles and done, and that it had been ru1ed upon as being proper, but sabers would be turned into plowshares :rncl pruning llooks? that I le::rrn to the Senator. l\Ir. President, my heart swelled witllin rue at the thought. :Mr. BACON. Ruled upon by whom? To turn a -vernal anc1 bnrren furrow in springtime, even with a l\fr. W.ARilEN. I leave lliat to the Senator. plowshare made of cast steel, with emphasis on the steel, is to l\Ir. BACON. No; I do not want it left in that way. Ruled me a great source of delight. But, 0 l\Ir. President, such de- upon by whom? light would be tame in comparison with the pleasure of turning Mr. W AilREN. Ruled upon by the people who paid the the vernal furrow in springtime with a plowslrnrc macle from money, by those who accepted it, by the administration which steel of guns and rifles that shoot and. from swords and sabers directed it, by the Congress, and, I understand, by the courts that slaughter. What a happy tllougbt it was. But I find now that permitted it. that all this wns an iridescent dream. M:r. BACON. I would be glad to haT'c a citation of the case l\fr. President, I did not beliern it then, nor do I beliern it in the court. now. I have sometimes said that notwithstanding the pleadings 1912. OONGRESSION AL RECORD-SENATE . 4585

\ with eloquent voice one would hardly belie>e that Senators be­ thought probably it might be done under one unanimous con· l lieved it themselves. sent. Senators proclaimed then, "Hail the day of peace." Yes; Mr. WILLIAl\IS. I ask unanimous consent to return to that we join you in that, but first let us hnil the day of justice. Let portion of the bill for the purpose of then getting the yeas and us llaH the dny of right, that day when mankind shall treat nays, if that consent be given. mnukincl as brothers. Then and then only will come the day of The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there objection to the request of peace. the Senator from Mississippi to return to the arnenclment to Mr. President, notwithstanding the fact that we have passed strike out, on pnges n and 10? The Chair hears none. Is there the arbitration treaties, I do not belie>e that tbe millennium has now objection to the request of the Senator to d emand the come, nor do I bc1ieYe that universal peace is yet in sight. We yeas and nays? The Chair hears no objection to that. haYe not yet reached that condition when smitten on one cheek l\lr. WILLIA.MS. Now I ask for the yeas and nays. we arc ready to turn the other also. Particularly I feel that The VICE PUESIDENT. Is the request of the Senator from this is true when I read from the document I have in my hand, Mississippi for the yeas and nays seconded? [Putting the ques­ which I procured from the Navy Department, that in Great tion.] Nine Senators have seconded the demand-not a suffi­ Britain they lmve now on the ways, ready to slide into the quiet cient number. waters of the .Mersey and Clyde, battleships, now building, of 1\fr. WILLIAMS. Is not that one-fifth of the l\lerubers pres­ the Drca-dnought type, 10; armored cruisers, of the Invincible ent, l\fr. Presideilt? tyr~e. 4; armored cruisers, 6,000 to 3,000 tons, 10; torpedo-boat The VICE PRESIDENT. It is _not one-fifth of a quorum, destroyers, 31; submarine yessels and craft of the various kinds, and it ls always assumed that a quorum is present. 17; making n. total of 72. l\!r. WILLI.AI\IS. Then I suggest the absence of n quorum. Mr. President, I find that Great Britnin has on the ways 72 The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will cnll the roll. engines of war, of devastation, hell, and destruction that are Mr. W AnREN. Will you withhold the suggestion just a reaiew of this fact, I must second, Mr. President? The Senator from :Mississippi certainly sny that I protest against the thoughts and ideas that were so knows that every opportunity has been accorded him on this eloquently expressed, that we had reached the day of the matter. Does he think it is necessary to pursue it any fmther·i millennium of peace when we would ha ye no army and that arbi­ Mr. WILLIAMS. I think it is absolutely necessary to ha \e tration would take its place. a fair expression of the Senate as to whether one-fifth of its . In view of these facts, and of the report of the committee, I membership or one-fifth of a quorum can demand the yeas and shall oppose any part that shall reduce the Infantry Arm of nays if a quorum is not present. this country. Mr. LODGE. Let the request be again put, Mr. President. L\Ir. '.rHORNTON. Mr. President, before the Senator from The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair will again put tlle re­ New Jersey takes his seat I should like to call his attention to quest. Those seconding the request for the yeas and nays will the fnct that we did not pass those arbitration treaties to bring indicate it by raised hands. about general peace, but that, on the contrary, we knocked them The yeas and nays were ordered. into a "cocked bat," using the expression of Gov. Wilson when Mr. BACON. I understand the question to be on the amend· referring to another run tier. ment proposed by the committee. l\lr. 1\1.A.RTI~'E of New -Jersey. As far as we could, we rati­ The VICE PRESIDENT. Certainly. ficu them. I insist that only th~ee Members of this body who Mr. BACON. And those who are in favor of the reduction would stand up here and support a Navy would be the three of the present number of the Cavalry regiments will >ote Members of the body who >oted against them, and I happen to "nay" on the amendment and those who oppose it will >oto be oue of them. The Senators went at least as far as they could " yea." Am I correct? in the proposition; but that has nothing to do with my position The VICE PRESIDENT. Those who fa>or the amendment iii. this cnse. will >Ote "yea" and those who oppose it will vote "nay." The VICE PRESIDENT. The question is on agreeing to the .Mr. WILLIAMS. The amendment keeps the .Army at its amendment of the committee. present force, and if the amendment is voted down, it reduces The amendment was agreed to. the Army five regiments. The reading of the bill was continued to line 5, on page 11. Mr. W All.REN. I think there is a misunderstanding about Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. President, I was temporarily out of the it, and in order that we may be sure- Chamber. I am informed that the amendment was yoted on The VICE PRESIDENT. The amendment is to strike out, while I wns absent. beginning with the word "Pro-i;·idcd," in line 13, on page D, and The VICE PRESIDENT. The amendment was voted on and ending with the word "act," in line 6, on page 10. carried. Mr. WARREN. A vote "yea" is to sustain the committee 1Ur. WILLIAMS. I thought the roll was to be callecl. I in striking it out? do not know wllctb.er it is in order, but I should like to haye The VICE PRESIDENT. A >ote "yea" is to strike it out, the yeas and nays on tlle amendment. which is the committee amendment. The Secretary will call The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there objection to granting the the ron. request of the Senator from Mississippi that the yeas nnd nays Tho Secretary proceeded to call the roll. be ordered upon the amendment which was carried, being the lUr. CUI,LOJ.\1 ("IT"hen his name was called) . I ba>e a general amendment to strike out on pages 9 and 10. pair with the Sena.tor from West Virginia [:Mr. CIIILTON]. I Mr. CULBEHSON. I suggest thnt the question ought to be do not lmow how he would vote if present, and I therefore put whether the Senator can now demand the yeas and nays. withhold my vote. 'l'he VICE PRESIDENT. Tlle Cllair is perfectly clear upon l\Ir. BRYAN (when l\Ir. FLETCHEn's name was cnlled) . l\Iy that voint. It cnn only be done by unanimous consent. colleague [Mr. F:itETCHER] is nece::::sarily nbsent. He is paired l\lr. CULR'EHSON. It requires one-fifth of the Senators with the junior Senator from Kentucky [:\:tr. BRADLEY] . present to order the yens anu nays, nffirmntiYely stated. 1\fr. CUl\Il\UNS (when M:r. KENYON'S name was cnllecl). lUy The VICE PRESIDENT. And by unanimous consent of colleague [l\Ir. KENYON] is absent from the city. If present, conr::e the yeas and nays can be ordered. he would vote "yea." Mr. CULBERSON. Bnt the point is that it is too lute. . 1\Ir. LODGE (when his name was called). I have a general The VICE PHESIDENT. Certainly; except by unanimous pair with the junior Senntor from New York [.i.:lr. O'GoR:llA.N] . consent it is too late. I trnnsfcr that pnir to the junior Senator from Illinois [Mr. · l\lr. CULBERSON. If the Senator from Mississippi would LORIMER] ~nd YOte. I Yote "yea." request the yens and nays, I would not make the point. I have l\Ir. SWANSON (when the name of l\Ir. MARTIN of Virginiu no objection to the Senator making the request for the yeas and. was called). My colleague [Mr. MARTIN] is detained from the nays at this time. Senate on account of illness in his family. He is paired with l\lr. WILLIAMS. That is all that the request for unanimous the senior Senator from New York [l\Ir. RooT] . consent involn~s . If the request for unanimous consent is Mr. l\IARTINfl of ~ rew Jersey (when the name of Mr. SMITH grnuted, the yeas and nays can only be ordered by a one-fifth of South Carolina was called) . I was asked to state for the yote. Senator from South Carolina [Mr. S:mTH] tllat he is paired Mr. CULBERSON. I haYe no objection to that. wil"h the Sena.tor from Delnware [Mr. RICIIA.RDSON]. . l\lr. WILLI.A.US. What I ask is nnanirpous consent to de­ l\1r. SHIVELY (when :Mr. STONE'S name was called.) . The mand the yens nnd nays; and then, if the demand is not sec­ senior Senator from Missouri [Mr. STO. E] is necessarily nbsent ·onclecl by n fifth of the Senators present, of course that is a from the c"ity. He is paired with the senior Senator from different thing. Wyoming [l\:Ir. CLARK] . The VICE PRESIDENT. Of course the request technically l\Ir. SMITH of Michigan ("IT"hcn l\Ir. TowNsEND's name was )llust be to return to that portion of the bill, but the Chair calleu). .My colleague [Mr. TOWNSEND] is necessarily absent · CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. APRIL 11,.1 from the Cbn.ml>cr. I understand he i~ paired with the Sen­ caused by fixing the amount slightly below llie estimn tes, par­ tor from :Maine [~fr. GARDNER]. in rI a ticul::i rly the case of the pay of officers nncl enlisted men. The roll call was concluded. These estimates are lmsed upon ruathematicnl computations, l\.:Ir. JOHNSTON of Alabama. I wish to state that my col­ taking into consideration tlle number of men .and what they are league [Mr. BANKHEAD] is paired with the Senator from Idaho allowed by law. Nothing was to l>c gained, in the opinion of . [Mr. HEYBURN]. I wish also to state that the Senator from tlle c-om.mittee, by keeping them down below tllo~e :figures, be­ Texas [Ur. B.A.ILEY] is paired with the Sen::ttor from Montana cause it would simply lead to a deficiency bill. Then there are [Mr. DIXON] . additions to the reser-re ammunition, as the Senator will observe­ Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. I am paired 1Vith tho junior Senutol' as we go on, mninJy for the artillery and for the militia.. from Pennsylvania [:Mr. OLIVER], but I under.stand that Ile and 1\Ir. OVER~f.AN . Has the Army been increased since the last I Yrnnlcl vote the same way. So I take the liberty to \Ote. I approp1iation bill? T"Ote ~· yea." .Mr. DU 'PONT. No; but the militia has been given in-· Ur. BRIGGS. I have a general pair with the Senn.tor from creased amounts of material necessary for its instruction and ,West Virginia [Ur. WATSON] . .As he has not \otcd, I will equipment. withhold my \Ote. Mr. OYER.MAN. How much ndditional has been' given to the :Mr. CULLOM. As I huve stated, I ha-re u general pair with national guard? the Senator from West Virginia [l\fr. CIIILTON], but I tr!lll.Sfer Mr. DU PONT. No addition to the number, but there have that pair to the Senator from Connecticut [l\fr. BRA.NDEGEE] been additions to their equipment. and vote. I vote "yea." Mr. OVERMAN. So th.at practically the Army is in the same ~fr . PAGE: I wish to announce that my colleague [~fr . DIL­ condition that it was two years ago, and yet we increase the LINGII"1] is absent from the city. lle is paired with the senior .api>ropriation $2,726,025 over the amount carried by the last Senator from South Carolina (Mr. TILLMAN] . appropriation bill. :Mr. BURNHAM. I have a general pair with the junior Sena­ Mr. DU PONT. I will say to the Senator from North Caro­ tor from Maryland [Ur. SMITH] . In his absence I withhold lina that when the bill is completed a.ncl he has had an oppor-1 1 my vote. If at liberty to \ote, I should \Ote "yea." tunity of examining each item he will see for himself the rea-j Mr. JO~TES. I desire to stat~ that the junior Senator from sons for the increases, and I think they will be satisfactory Kentucky [Mr. BRADLEY] is out of the city, and I desire that to him. this announcement shall stand for the day. Mr. OVERMAN. I do not know whether I will or not, be­ Mr. W .A.RREN. I desire to say that my colleague [Mr. ca. use the Senator has made no report here, except to state the CLARK] is out of the city for the day. He is paired with the fact of the increase. I thought he could give a general resume, senior Senator from Missouri [Mr. STONE] . .so that we would be informccl as we come to each item. I Mr. CURTIS. I am Tequested to announce that the Senator should like to have the Senator tell me the reason for this in­ from South Dakota [Ur. GAMBLE] is paired with the Senator crease. He has admitted that the ATIDy stantls about where it from Oklahoma [l\ir. OWEN]. I also wish to state that the Sen­ dicl when we matle the enormous appropriation of last year ; 1 ator from Ohio [Mr. BURTON] is paired with the Senator from but this bill carries $2,700,000 more than the appropriation o:tl Nerndn. [Ur. NEWLANDS] . last year, although, as I have said, the Army is the same ns it The result was announced-yeas 41, nays 6, as followst was then, and there has been no increase in the number of the YEAS-47. National Gual'd. I should like to know, therefore, why these Ashurst Cullom Lodge Sanders increases are necessary. Ilucon Cummins J\lcCumbcr Shively :Mr. WARREN. I desire to say, in answer to the Senntor's Ilorah Curtis :McLean Smith, Ariz. statement, that the 1nst .Army bill was not an enormous.. !Jill; Bourne du Pont Martine, N. J. Smith, Ga. Bristow Fall Myers Smith, Mich. • that it was several million dollars, about $8,000,000 less- Brown Foster Nelson ' Smoot / 1\Ir. OVERMAN. I was a member of the committee, and the Bryu.n Gallinger Pago Stephenson ' reduction was recommended by the President" of the Unitedl1 Catron Johnston. .Ala. Paynter Sutherland Chamberlain Jones Penrose Thornton ,· States. Crane Kern Perkins Warren Mr. W .ARREN. I am not finding any fault with that retluc-. Crawford Lea Poindexter Wetmore tion or with the Senator in connection with it, but the fact is] Culberson Lippitt Ilayner th.at the amount appropriated by that bill was nbout $8,000,000 ~ NA.YS-G. less than the nmount appropriated the year before. In order-• Clarke, Ark. Gronna Swanson Williams Gore Overman to enable us to make that reduction we omitted the provisions for maintaining the surplus of military supplies, such as cloth-\ NOT VOTING--42. ing, and so forth; we provitled nothing of consequence in thfr Bailey Dillingham Lorimer Root Bankhead Dixon Martin, Va. Simmons \VUY of new artillery, which was very much needed for the, Brndley Fletcher Nowlands Smith, Md. militia, and m forth. The consequence is that on account of the B:-1mdcgee Gamble Nixon Smith, S. C. lower appropriations of last year and the consumption of sur­ Brig~s Gardner O'Gorman Steno Burnllam Guggenheim Oli>er Tillman plus stock that had been accumulated, it is necessary this yenr Burton ·Heyburn Owen Townsend to make provision for reserve supplies. For instance, in tho Chilton Hitchcock Percy Watson Clapp Johnson. Mc. Pornerenc Works mutter of clothing there were considerations involved, such as Clark, Wyo. Kenyon need the proposition to have a different style of uniform; and, as the Davis Ln. Follette Ilichardson Senator well knows, there was much talk about cheaper cloth­ So the amendment was agreed to. ing which rrtight follow a chang~ of the tariff, although the Mr. OVERMAN. Before the rending of the bill is resumed­ change, as Senators know, did not materialize, and the conse­ of course, this is hardly tile proper place-I· wish to say that quence is that we have greatly retlucecl, in fact, almost ex- I have been reading the report of the committee, which is very· hausted our surplus supply. '. brief. I notice the increase o-vcr the House bill is $7,537,453.80. Now, tu.king the list of items in which increases have ucen I also notice that the bill, as reported from the Senate com­ recommended by the committee, here is the matter of clothing. mittee, carries a larger appropriation by $2,726,925.01 than the For extra clothing-that is, f.or surplus clothing and ca.mp and last bill. I should like to know why there has been this ex­ garrison equipage-there is an increase of $G18,429; for surplus ceedingly lar~e increase over the last appropriation of nearly ammunition for the Organized Militia, $1300,000; for field artil- / $3,000,000 without any reason being gi\en to show why it is lery for Orgnnized Militia, $480,000 ; and for automatic mnclliuo- necessary. rifles, $100,000. , I l\Ir. DU PONT. Mr. President, I will say to the Senator from 1\Ir. OVEJRMA.i..~ . Now, I want to ask the Senator-- ~ North Carolina that the increases are mn.in1y due to the fact Mr. WARREN. One moment please-so Umt more than a: that the committee has fixed the amount in accordance with the million and a half of the increase goes to make provision for 1 estimates, otherwise the only result would be a large deficiency, properly equipping the State militia and for surplus clothing--1 as the items of pny to officers and enlisted men are simply a matters which were more or less neglected last year. mathematical computation. Mr. OVERMAN. Does not this mean the storage of great war fr. BA.CON. I hope the Senator will speak louder. We want supplies in warehouses in the country which we couhl get along · to get the information, but we ha-re not heard a word he has without? - saicl. Mr. W ARREJN. Not as to supplies for the militia. It is sim­ l\!r. DU PONT. There is so much confusion in the Chamber ply to make provision so that in the event they shou1<1 be ca11ed that I am not surprised. into the field they may be properly armed and equipped. The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senate will please be in order. l\Ir. OVERMAN. Tho statement in regnrcl to accumulating l\lr. DU P01ilT. I will repeat, for the benefit of the Senator supplies in warehouses may not apply to the militia, but as to from Georgia, that a large portion of the increase has been the other items is it not the purpose to fill up the storage ware-' 1912. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 4587

:Qo~ses with supplies that will carry us O\er pcrhnps two or The ehairman of the committee has very properly stated the three years? difference between the appropriation for maneuYers of the Mr. WARREN, Not so. much as that, but it is to put us in a militia in this bill and the law of lnst year, which is over a position so that if we should ha\e h·ouble upon our borders to­ million uollars. That is a varying amount. Every two years µJorrow, or a month or two months from now, we would be the mobile Army meets in conjunction with the militia, and that n.ble to uniform, arm, and equip the troops. • _ requires a million dollars or more, wllile in the alternate years Mr. OVERMAN. Then the appropriations are in anticipation the Coast .Artillery has joint mnneuycrs with the militia in of war, are they not? various loca.lities, which requires a smaller amount; so that Ur. WARREN. No; but to provide for items which have been Army appropriation bills yary quite u little from year to :rear habitually carried in the Army appropriation bill, but which in that regard. :were omitted last year, because, first, there was a great spasm .Mr. S:t\UTH of Georgia. I wish to ask the Senator from of economy, in which we all joined; second, as I have already Wyoming a question. I see in the report, following the item said, because of the pros11ect of the price for clothing being no "Equipment, coast artillery, Organized Militia," an item of in­ higher nnd possibly lower; and, third, because there was quite crease under the Subsistence D.epartment. That is an additional a little talk about changes in uniform. amount for the militia ~lso, is it not? Mr. OVERMAN. The appropriations were reduced last year, Mr. WARREN. I do not unf increase affect­ word "surplus." Does tllat apply to a particular fund which is ing the Organized Militia. Those items seem to go exclusi>ely ap1>ropriated in this bill? to tbc Field aud Coast Arti11ery. Mr. WARREN. No; it simply relates to clothing and equip­ Mr. DU PONT. Yes. ment. We use the word "surplus" to explain that we arc un­ l\fr. SMITII of Georgia. Is there any increase to the National dertaking to have a sufficient supply to last a few months or Guard .outside of the .Artillery? . until more could be secured in replacement, if we should be Mr. DU PONT. I do not think there is independently of the called upon to ·use the armed forces of the United States. million dollars, which is for their maneuvers. I do not remem­ .:\fr. SHIVELY. Is it in tlle nature of an emergency fund to ber any. meet an anticipated exigency? l\1r. SMITH of Geor~a . I asked the question because I am Mr. W .ARREN. No; provision has always been mn.de for sur­ more interested in an increase to them than to the Artillery. plus supplies, except once in a great while, like last year, when, Mr. DU PONT. The committee has treated the militia as lib­ for certain reasons, the surplus was allowed to run down. It is erally as possible, and I think tlie committee takes a great deal always considercxl proper and, in fact, necessary, to carry a suf­ of interest, and the Senate as well, in providing equipment and ficient surplus, so that supplies may be sllippetl from headqn:u­ proper organization for the militia. of the different States. ters to various places where they arc needed-to the Philippines, Mr. SMITH of Georgia. But the increase seems to be exclu­ for instance, and other places-in order that we may at any sively to the Artillery. time equip u few regiments should they be called in a hurry Mr. DU PONT. They were in the greatest need. They were into acti\e service. very much worse off, inasmuch as they had not the .necessary Mr. SHIVELY. Let me ask the Senator-- equipment for their proper instruction. Then, within the L'lst Mr. WARREN. If the Senator will allow me a little further, year or two there l.rnve been a great many militia companies in order to buy clothing cheaply for the Army it is necessary organized as Heavy Artillery, and it has been the policy of the to ask for the submission of bids. Those who bi

l\lr. OVERMAN. It will cost us, then, next year $1,000,000 except for sea travel, from the place of his discharge to the JnOre-- place of his enlistment," so as to make the clause read: Mr. DU PONT. The law was passed for the Philippines when For _travel allowance ~o enli sted men ,on di:;charg'c, $000,000 : Pro­ they were first occupied, but the House cut that down and the vided, l'bat when an cnllsted man who Is enlisted on or after July 1 1012, is discharged from the service, except by wny of punishment for Senate committee, after an exhausti"rn hearing of all those who an otrense, be shall be entitled to trnnspor tation in lcind and sub­ are best informed upon the subject, decided to retain it, and sistence from tbc plnce of his discbnrge to the place of his ori_ginal therefore the appr0priation was increased. enlistment, or to such other place within 1.hc continental limits of the United _States as be may select, to which the distance Is no greater Mr. OVERlHAN. I can not understancl why there shoulcl be than from the 1ilace of discharge to place of original enlistment ; lmt an increase of a million dollars in the Philippine Islands. if tbe distance be greater he may be furnished' with transportation in l\Ir. DU PONT. It is a matter of mathematical computation kind and st:bslstence for a distance equal to that from l)lacc of "dis­ charge to place of original enlistment, or, in lieu of such transportation of foreign pay, whatever it may amount to in :figures. af!d subsisten ce, be shall, if be so elects, receive 2 cents a mile, except Mr. OVERl'..Ll..N. Does it take more troops in the Philippines for sea travel, from the place of his discharge to the place of his than ever before? enlistment. . '1\Ir. DU PONT. No. The force is about the same. Mr. DU PONT. I move as an amenclment to the amenclment Mr. WARREN. We arc not paying any more. after the words "Prodded, That" to ~nsert "hereafter." l\lr. OVEil~Ll..N. I want to know why there shoulcl be this The amendment to the amendment was agreecl to. increarn of a million dollars? l\Ir. SHIVELY. I notice there is an increase of $100,000 pro­ .Mr. W A.IlRE:N. Been.use the House cut out the entire 20 per vided for trnveling allowances for enlisted men. Is that an in-· cent, not only with respect to the Philippine Islands but every crease over what is allowed in the current appropriation act; or other foreign country. is it simply an increase oYor what is allowed in the House bill? Mr. OVER~.Ll..N. You restore it? l\fr. DU PONT. Do you mean in line 23, page 10? l\Ir. WARREN. We restore it to what it was before. Ur. SHIVELY. I am now examining your re11ort. On page Mr. DU PONT. I have already said that. 2 I observe there is an increased· allowance of $100,000 for trav­ The reacling of the bill was resumed. The next amendment eling expenses. of the Committee on l\Iilitary Affairs was, under the subhead Mr. DU f>ONT. Yes. The House appropriated $800,000. " R etired enlisted men," on page 17, line 11, after the word The committee struck it out and i1rol)ose to appropriate $UOO,OOO. "dollars," to insert "Pr06 (36 Stat., 247), provided: subsistence for a distance equal to tllnt from place of discharge " For the purpose of determining allowance's for all travel • • • to place of original enlistment, or, in lieu of such transportation for enlisted men on discharge, travel in the Philippine Archipelago, the and subsistence, he shall, if he so elects, receive 2 cents a mile, IIawaiian Archipelago, the home waters of the United States, and be- \ 1912. OONGRESSION AL RECORD- SEN ATE. 4589 tween the United States and Alaskn shall not be regarded as sea travel year 1908 ·(July 1, 1907, to June 30, 1908), and immediately reenlisted and shall be paid for at the rates established by law for land travel for Philippine service, their terms of service expirin:; during the fi scal within the boundaries of the United States. year 19rl. In addition to this the establishment of the mnncuvcr camps and the mobilization of troops along the Mexican border also "It will 1.Je observed tlw.t the abo-ve legislation was enacted at increased the expcni;cs for a large number of men who were discharged a time when trn:re1 was slow and expensive, and that it has been in this terr itory. '.l'hc expenditures to date indicate that this unnsual kept in force long after the rapid and comparatively inexpen­ cost of travel pay will probably continue throu,;hout the current fiscal year (July 1, 1911, to June :::o, 1912), but it is not belie>ed that there­ sive methods of modern transportation had· completely changed after the disbuTScmcnts for travel pay under cxistin~ laws and condi­ the situation. tions will average much over $1,000,000. Taking $1,000,000 as a basis of the cost of travel pay for future fi scal years. the proposed mcasur"l "Further, the laws quoted above show that when an enlisted will result in an ultimate saving- of approximately $4G0,750 a y ar. mn:n is eling. . to service in the Canal Zone, l'anama. " No rea5on is apparent wily this extra expense of almost 2 Ur. SHIVELY. I understood. the Senator from Wyoruing to cents n mile should be r)aiu by the Go>errunent when the pres­ say a moment ngo that there hnd been no increase in the actual ent comforts and con>eniences of traxel can be provided by vay of tllc enlistecl men on foreign ser>ice and tllat tllerc would furnishing transportation in kind anie construed as trc,c(J;o;_t Miles. Tourist Cfiili~nu - Cost per p1·cclnding Army paymasters from drawing checks in invor. of the per­ sleeper. rr.tions. mile. son or in stitution designated by in_,33 1·etnry of War may preRcribc: Proviclcil f1~1·tllcr, That priyment by the I..c'a.vcnwortll, Kans_.. . _.. . 29.00 1,955 4. 40 6. 00 .0201 United States of n. check on the indorscme=it of the inly 2 to 3. or, in other '\TOrds, 2 men reenlisted out of every u men disc!:arged. Taking this ratio as a basis, the average cost of tra>cl tention of llie chairman of the committee. Great ision for supplies nncl equipment is not sufficient to co>er "'1'110 estimate for travel allon-ancc to enlisted men on discharge is based on a comparison of enlistments and discharges for four fiscal this necessity. I wish to ask the chairmnn of tlle Military Af­ yea ~, with the enlistments for the fiscal year 1010, which will deter­ fairs Committee to consent to an nmenclment authorizing the mine the nnmllCi' of men discharged during the fiscal year l!H3, and it \Var De11nrt:Qlcnt, where tile Secretary thinks it advisab1e, to is thc1·eby indicated that the amount of ., 000,000 for this purpose is necc.;;sary." use n. part of the money provided for the Orgnnizecl iiilitin of Tltere was disbursed from the aprropriation, " Pay of the Army, the Stnte for tlle purpose of hiring horses for use iu practice. 1910." covering the fiscal year .July , rnov, to June 30, 191 o.. 90;!,- Mr. President, it seems to llle that one of the greatest needs 461.::iO for travel pay to enlisted men. For the fiscal year 1011 the expenditures for travel pay to enlisted men were unusually large, due of our lllilitary senice is the Artnrery. It is impossible to haYe t o the fact that a large number of men were discharged during t he fis ca l a well-equipped Artillery unless you have horses to take the CQNGRESSION AL RECORD-SEN ATE. APRIL 11, .

guns out. I know, while governor of Virginia, it was impossible The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, . the Secretary I ~or ~e .to. get the funds to provide the horses for the Artillery will state the amendment. . I m V1rgmia to go out as frequently as they desired and should The SECRETARY. It is proposed to add, at the end of line 26, go out. I understand it is helu by the department that it can on page 2G: not permit any of the fund that is provided for furnishing m:rr­ . Provided, That the foregoing apprQpriation a~d any other appropria­ munition, guns, and clothing to be used for this purpose. There tions heretofore made for that purpose shall remain available until the is a strong effort now on the part of the Federal Government to end of the fiscal year 1914. indl_lce people to yolunteer in the Coast Artillery, the organized . Mr. WILLIAl\~S. I want to ask the Sena.tor from Virginia if Artillery ~ompames, because they recognize the great necessity he does not thmk there is great danger, if it is provided that for it in time of war, and I should like to have this necessity the National Government shall hire horses for the CaYalry and . supplied in some way by an amendment at the proper place in Artillery arms of the National Guard, that most of the National this bill. I ask the chairman of the 1\1iiitary Affairs Committee Guard will convert itself into cavalry or artillery. Would it if he has any objection to authority being granted to the War not be a great incitation to the local livery business? As I Department to permit funds given to the Organized 1\lilitia to understand, the present.Cavalry of the National Guard furnish be used for this purpose? their own horses. :Mr. DU PONT. I will say to the Senator from Virginia that . 1\1~. ~~ANSON. I wi~h to say _we hase no cavalry company I absolutely agree with him that the Artillery branch of the m Virgmrn. I do not thmk there is any in many of the States. militia is a most important feature, and something shoul

COLLECTOR OF CUSTOMS, House holds receipts from the con:mittee clerks for these bills. Luke B. Colbert to be collector of customs for the district ·of I do not know that that explanation explains, but it is stated Marblehead, in the State of Massachusetts. in justice to the clerical force at the desk. UNITED STA.TES MARSHAL. Mr. MANN. That in part satisfies my curiosity. I clo not object. George L. To\\nsencl to be Unitecl States marshal for the clis­ The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] Tbe trict of Dela ware. Clrn ir hears none. Tile question is on agreeing to tbe resol u­ POSTMASTERS. tion. ARIZONA. Tl.le question \\US taken, and the resolution was ag1;ecd to. E. J. Lehman, Clifton. NORWEGIAN ICE BREAKER " KIT." GEORGIA. Fred J. Allen, East Point. .Mr. HARDY. :Mr. Speaker, I filed a report from the Com­ Albert S. Anderson, Millen. mittee on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries this morning on Nemic F. Awtrey, Lagrange. the bill (H. R. 17235) to grunt American registry to tlle Nor­ Charles B. Beacham, Lumber City. wegian ice breaker Kit, and I ask leaYe that tllc minority hnvc John Il. Boone, Hazlehurst. five days within which to file tlleir >iews (II. Ilept. 523, pt. 2). Wil1inm J . Campbell, Fairburn. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas asks unanimous Willinrn 0. De Loachc, Talbotton. consent thnt the minority of the Committee on tllc Merchant William E . Dunham, Cochran. Marine and Fisheries have fiye days within which to file their Jolm w. English, Helena. >icws on the bill referred to. Is there objection? Augusta Glo>er, Monticello. There was no objection. Lizzie Hamilton, Buford. CONSTRUCTION OF POST ROADS. Mattie H. Hanson, Forsyth. Mr. HE.i~RY of Tex.as. Mr. Speaker, I submit the following A . EdYvard Hollis, Reynolds. resolution from the Committee on Rules, ancl ask that it lh! Ne\\ton T. Jones, Pelham. read. John C. Massey, Harmen. The Clerk read as follows: James W. Riley, Butler. · Rcsoli;cd, etc., That a joint committee of both Houses of Congress is George P. Whigham, Bartow. hereby created, to be composed of three Members o.f the Senate, to be William M. Wilson, Blue Ridge. appointed by the President thereof, anu three 1\lembers of the House of Heprescntatives, to be appointed by the Speaker thereof. . Any vacancy N E W YORK. occurring on the committee shall be filled in the same manner as the John M. Brown, Port Jefferson. ori~inal appointment. Tlle said committee is hereby empowered and directed to collect in­ Daniel L. Fethers, Slmron Springs. formation and to make a thorough and complete investigation of the Frank S. Kenyon, Adams. condition of the public highways in the several States of the Union Joseph J. Keenan, Potsdam. including the cost·of transportation thereon; the improvement construe~ tion, and maintenance of such public highways and the cost thereof· NORTH D-\KOTA. the cost of carrying the mail over such highways and the improvement of the mail servlcc that may be obtained by the improvement of the post W. C. Forman, jr., Hankinson. roads in the United States. Tho committee is hereby authorized ancl John P . Grady, New England.. directed to report to the Congress all information obtained from such Charles Leathart, Fairmount. investigation, together with recommendntions as to the advisability of the Congress granting national aid to the maintenance and building of Mathew Lynch, Lidger\\ood. post roads and national highways in the United States, and to make P E:N"NSYLV A..i."'rIA. recommendations as to the proper legislation to be enacted by the Congress. Eva J . Beeman, Lawrenceville. The said joint committee shall conclude its investigations and report to this Congress all the evidence taken and their findings and conclu­ sions theruon. The sum of $25,000, or so much thereof as may !Jc nec­ essary. is hereby appropriated, out of ::my money in the Treasury not HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. otherwise appropriated, to pay the necessary expenses of said joint com­ mittee, the sum to be disbursed by the Clerk of the House upon vouchers THURSDAY, Ap1·il 11, 191~ . to be appro>ed by the chairman of the committee. The House met at 12 o'clock m. l\Ir. :MANN. Mr. Speaker, I make the point of orcler that the The Chaplain, Re>. Henry N. Couden, D. D., offered the reso1 ntion is not a pri vilegecl resolution, and unless it can be following prayer: callctl up at some time when gentlemen who may wish to be Our Father in heaven, let Tlly kingclom come in all our heard upon the subject nre present, I shall object. hearts, that with clear perceptions of right and duty we may Mr. HENRY of Texas. 1'fr. Speaker, I hnve not ofl'cred it striye earnestly :rnilegcd resolution. I intenclecl to :1sk nnnnirnons con­ conduct the sublime principles enunciutecl by the Mrrster and sent for its present consideration, but if the gentleman intcnus fulfilled in His incomparnble life a.ncl cliaructer, and glory ancl to make tha.t point of order-- • honor and praise be Thine forever. Amen. Mr. ~L\.1'.TN. Mr. Speaker, I think we ought to hn>c n resolu­ The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday was read and tion of this sort, which is cn.11cd up by unanimous consent, C!l11ecl apvro>ee read. Mr. HENRY of •.rexas. Certainly. The Clerk read as follo\\S : .Mr. SULZER. Mr. Speaker, I desire to nsk the gentleman if House resolution 4DO . there is pending before the Committee on Rules n motion for ri Resolved, Tlrnt the Clerk of the House of Representatives be in­ structed to request the Senate to furnish the House of Representatives rule to make an amendment for a general ·varcel post in order duplicate engrossed copies of Senate bills 4314 and 46!!3, the originals to the pending Post Office appropriation bill? It is a rnntter of havi~ ~ been lost or destroyed. much moment to the people of the country, and I \\Ould like to The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the present considera­ know from the gentleman whether such a rule will be revortccl tion of the resolution? to the House ere the consideration of the Post Office appropria-. 1\Ir. MA...i."\"N. Ur. Speaker, reserving the right to object, I tion bill is concluded? have curiosity enough to \\ant to know how so many of these Mr. HENRY of Texas. This is another mntter, the gentle­ bills get lost. We passed a resolution similar to this last man understands. night. Mr. SULZER. I am asking for information. l\lr. SHERWOOD. T\\o Senate pension bills \\ere lost. I Mr. HE.rTRY of Texas. I will state to tllc gentleman that the can not account for how they \\ere lost. This is to supply Comruittec on Rules has not yet considered the question about duplicates. wbich be inquires, any some A hill (H. n. 14094) declaring the carrying- openly or concealed about citizens what was then known as bowie knives, which was made the person any pistol, bowie ln1ife dirk 'or dirk knife blackjnc.I! a felony to so carry. And after it was made a felony to carry C!£! gg-e_r, sword cane, slung shot, brass or other metal kn~ckle in the District of Columbia a felony. that knife it was no longer carried, because you could not • .Be. it cnact~d, etc., That it s.hall be unlawful for any person or persons defend yourself even if you carried it. To defend yourse1f from "1thm the District of Colnmb10. to have concealed about their person· or deadly assault you were still liable to a felony for carrying it. to carry openly nny pistol, bowie knife dirk or dirk knife blackjack In this Capital of the Nation, where one President of the cln gger, sworcl cane, slung- shot, brass or other metal knuckl'e . and any person or persons having- any of said weapons or instruments 'concealed United States has been shot down in a public railway station a~out the person or carrying the same openly in the District of Colum­ by a man carrying a concealed weapon, anybody without in­ hlll shall be cleemed A"nilty ot n felony nncl upon conviction thereof curring more than a misdemeanor penalty can go around tllis shall be imprisonctl in the penitentiary' for not less than one yenr nor more than .1.h1:ee years: Prodded, That prosecutions under this act shall Ca11ital with deadly weapons in his pocket covered by the bill, l.Je had by.1_nd1ctment in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia: with which, from the highest officer of the land, from the Presi­ A1~'L proi:wccl furthc1·, That the officers. noncommissioned officers, and dent himself down to the humblest citizen, he may shoot down pr~ ·rntes of t~e Unite~ Stat.es .Army, Navy, or Marine Corps, police ofllcers, ~tllc e r s guarclmg- prisoners, officials of the United States or and murder, I say it is a sad commentary upon our civilization the Dl~tr1ct of Columbia engaged in the execution of the laws for the that Congress will sit here and permit that which we can protectwn of z:ersons or property, when nny such persons are on duty shnll not lie linl>lc under this act. ' prevent and which can not possibly be of any use to any law­ Sr.c. 2. :rhat so runcll of any section of the net approved May 11 abiding citizen. 18!)8, entitled "An a~t to punisq tl!e carrying or selling of deadly 01! Like the gentleman from Kentucky [:Mr. JO HNSON] said, if da ~ge;,ous ~• ea po? s wit hm the p1str1ct of Columbia, and for other pur­ poses, 'Yh1ch is mconsistei;it with this act, and only so far as the same no person could carry a pistol without committing a felouy, may be mconsistent herewith, is hereby repealed. then it ~ould not be necessary for gentlemen to carry pistols to proted themselves, because men would not tnke the risk. Tlle committee amendments were read, as follows : FJven the burgl:ir would not take such a risk. Look clown in the Pnge 1, line 3, strike out " or persons " Page 1, line 4, insert between the woi·ds " concealed " and .. about,, State of Virginia where, a few days ngo, a judge was shot down the words ''.__upon or." and several other persons killeu by men present with deadly Same page, same line. strike out the word "their" and insert in weapons concealed in their pockets. If it llad been n felony to lien thereof the wonl "bis." Page 1, line u, strike ont the wor

y for our defense. 'Here we ha>e as effecti>e 3 inches :is a deadly weapon, and after enumerating razors and :a police force as any in the world for our defense; therefore other deadly weapons it includes them under the generic term people do not need to have pistols in _their pockets except as " deadly weapons." provided in this bill. Mr. NORRIS. Does that include safety razors? [Laughter.] I will vote for the bill even as amended. l\fr. l\IANN. I suppose it would. .l\1r. HARRISON of Mississippi. I notice in the bill there are Mr. CRUMP.ACKER. I suppose it covers razors generally some exceptions as to deputies and marshals while actually without regard to the length of the blade. engaged in their duties, providing that they can carry a pistol Mr. MANN. The bill prohibits the carrying of any pistol, if concealed. Is there any exception drawn from any previous ·bowie knife, dirk or dirk knife, blackjack, dagger, sword cane, bill as to people whose lives ha.-rn been tlu·eatened? Can they slung shot, brass or other metal knuckle, with the amendments carry a pistol? carried by the committee-clasp knife, razor, and so forth, or Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. The latter portion of the bill other deadly weapon. expressly sets that out. Now, I do not know just what the provisions now are with ref­ Mr. SIMS. If a man can go up and make an affidavit that he erence to the carrying of deadly weapons. I belieYe we ougllt thinks his life is in danger, and wants_to carry a pistol, then to haYe n strict law on tlie subject. men will do the same thing when they think their life is in l\fr. YOUNG of Kansas. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman danger "hen they wunt to commit a crime. I think it is yield for a question? wrong that such a thing exists now. Ilut as long as anybody The SPEAKER. Doe.s the gentleman from Illinois yield to is allowed to carry a pistol or concealed weapon as described the gentleman from Kansas? in this bill, they may not need to make all affidavit. But when 1\1 r . MANN. Certainly. nol>ody is allowed to carry concealed weapons without going Mr. YOUNG of Kansas. The carrying of a deadly weapon to the penitentiary, people will know that they will not need under this bill would not be a penal offense unless the person to protect themseh·es against such threatened crimes, and we carrying it attempted to conceal it? ought to set an example here to eyery city in this country by Mr. MANN. Re would not have to attempt to conceal it making it a felony for the citizen or .anyone else, except an if he put it in his pocket where it would be concealed. officer of the lnw in the discharge of his duty, by preventing l\Ir. YOUNG of Kunsas. If he concealed it he would be people going around as a walking arsenal ln this year of grace amenable to the law, and not otherwise. 1D12. Mr. MA~"'N . -If a man puts it in his pocket it is concealea. I hope there will be no opposition to this bill. I hope that no If it is coyered with paper so that it is not observable it is gentleman in this House feels that he will ever need to carry a concealed. That is not a matter of possible argument. If it pistol in the discharge of llis duty in this House or this Capital. were not concealed: the bill would be of no yalue. I am confident that no man has ever done so llere voluntarily, It seems to me that, in any eyent, instead of provily reported the other uay by Mr. l\1AJ\~ . I will not take \ery long. the District Committee in the House; a report has -not l>cen .M:r. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I will yield whatever time the made yet, if so ordered-which makes that punishable, not if I gentleman wants. willfully detain a book, but if I get the book nncl e great annoyance knife, a table knife, at a store in this town and put it in his to the people who are innocent, and they usually r esult in the pocket to take it home under this bill wou1u be subjected to im­ guUty people escaping, because while a man may be indicted for prisonment for one year in tile penitentiary, with no discretion carrying home a razor if somebody wishes to take reyenge upon on the part of tile judge. I suppose that is not intended? him no ordinary jury would convict n. person :md ncljudge llim Mr. SIMS. Oh, no. It is not carried as a weapon in that guilty of a crime ancl send him to the penitentiary for it. case. A case knife is not described in the bill. l\fr. GRAHAM. l\fr. Speaker, will the gentlemun ylehl? 1\lr. l\IANN. · Oh, yes; a case knife is described in the bill­ The SPEJAKEH.. Does the gentleman f-rom Tilinois yield to a.ny knife llaving a blade longer than n inches shall be deemed to be a his colleague? deadly weapon. ' l\Ir. l\IANN. CertainJy. Mr. SIMS. That is un amendment by the committee. Mr. GRAHAJ'ii. So far ns I know, .tb~ law in every State Mr. .MANN . And every Illll.Il that carries a deadly weapon is has in it proyisions similar to this propose<..1 law, except ::is to the subject, upon conviction, to imprisonment in the penitentiary punishment. The currying of deadly weapons concea.1cd is n. for not less than three years. A man carrying llome a razor misdemeanor only. Now, does the gentleman from Illinois, my that Ile hau purchased and putting it in his pocket would be colleague, know of nny cases where men were unjustly punisl.J. ed committing a felony, nn d if indicted for it there- would be no for this misuemcanor, us, for instance, thq carrying of n t able esca pe from conviction and punishment by the court. This gives knife concealed, or anything of that sort? no discretion to the court. i\:Ir. i\IANN. I thiuk there is no case in any of the States l\Ir. ORD PACKER. Mr. Speaker, will the gentlemun allow where tllcy define ns a deadly weapon a. knife having a blade a question? longer than 3 inches, without any further cl.escription thn.n that. Tile SPRA.KER. Does the gentleman yield? Mind you, I am in fa>or of making the carrying of deailly -Mr. l\IANN. Certainly. weapons very objectionable to tllose wl.J.o l.J.nxe heretofore car­ Mr. CRUMP .i' CK E R. Um1er the bill wonlcl a man be guilty ried tllem, so that it will not be clone; but if we fix the law of a crime if Ile woulu carry a razor with a blade about 2i so that it is too extreme the result will be that in tlle end it inches long? will come to be yiolated with impunity. 19.12. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.

Mr. GTIAII.Ai\I. It seems to me tllnt the only difference be~ fication of the criminal code in the Sixtieth Congress, one of tween this and most existing law~ on the subject is in the the -very distinguished members of the committee [Mr. SHER­ sc>erer puniBhment proYicled here. LEY], being a colleague of the gentleman from Kentucky, we Ur. MANN. I think that is the main difficulty. undertook to carry through, and did carry nll through that bill, Mr. SBIS. The amendment which tlle gentleman speaks not a distinction between a misd.cmeanor and a felony, not pro­ nbout, as to tlle leugth of the knife blade, is a committee amend­ visions fixing the minimum 11Cnalty, but provisions like this. ment. Tbe gcntleru::rn thinks thnt amendment is too drnstic. I am only reading the penalties for the various offenses, to Woulu that prenm t. anybody to be punished. who Yiolated tllc which I ovened by accident on this pnge. law by carrying tlie other weapons mentioned, like tlie pistol, SEC. Gl. * * '-' Sl!all be fined not more tllan $500 or imprtsoned the dirk, tlle slung shot? Would the whole law fall because the not more tllan 90 dayR, or both. SEC. G2. "' * * Shnll be fined not more than $1,000 or impris­ prohibited length of a knife blade might, in the gentleman's oned not more than five :'\'Cars, or botb. opinion, be too short? SEC. GB. * * ·~ Shall be fined not more than $10,000 or Impris­ l\Ir. l\fANN. I do not think the law would fall at all. I was oned not more than three years. 8,.F.c. 64. * * * Shall be fined :Qot more than $5,000 or imprls- calling attention to the drastic penalties provided in the bill, onea not more than two year::i, or both. - which might subject entirely innocent people to imprisonment, with no right on the part of the court to do otherwise. That form of penalty runs all through the criminal code; and has been substantially carried in most of the penal pro\isions l\1r. SIMS. Does not the gentleman have reason to believe or lnws since that time. Does tho gentleman think that thero that if a ruan bougllt a razor a.ncl carried it home, he woulcl is any occnsion here for departing from that theory of the not be convicted either by a jury or a court of having com­ criminal code? mitted nn unlawful net? l\1r. JOHNSON of' Kentucky. I do not care how it is ex· l\fr. l\IANN. I think it is not unlawful. I have reason to pres~ed. so thut the minimum penalty is a very se\ere one. believe that if I purchased a razor and carried it home nobody 1\:Ir. MANN. The way it is expressell all through the crde would suspect me. [Laughter.] fixes no minimum penalty at all. I think there is not a mi!ll· l\fr. SIMS. But there arc some people who buy und carry mum penalty fixed in any provision in the criminal code either razors as weapons, and use them as such. for counterfeiting or anything else. Mr. MANN. If I shoulcl carry a razor home and use it, I do Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. The intention of tllis bill is to not know but I ought to be punished. make a minimum penalty nnd make it se-vere, so that these mat· l\fr. CANNON. Does tlle gentleman think the words "n blade tc:rs may not be lightly treated and so that the conrt will have longer than 3 inches " might be considered a provision to pro­ to impose a severe penalty, though it be the minimum. mote the use of safety razors? [Laughter.] Mr. MANN. Then the gentleman thinks that in the matter o! Mr. l\1ANN. I think the "blade longer than 3 inches" does carrying a deadly weapon we ought to depart from the policy not apply to a rnzor. I hncl hoped that the gentleman from agreed upon and heretofore· fixed by the action of Congress on Tennessee ["l\Ir. Snrs] and tho gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. tllese matters? JOHNSON] would be willing to amend the bill so as to provide M:r. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I think so, because it is in.. that the punishment should not e:xceecl a certain amount of fine tended 1o deprive the court of tho power to· exercise leniency, or a certain term of imprisonment, or botll, in the discretion of which too often hnppens. the court. Mr. SIMS. With many men who carry pistols a fine would be Mr. SIMS. In other words, the gentleman wants to make it no punishment. simply a misdemeanor, which it is now, and which does not Mr. DIXON of Indiann. Will the gentleman yield? protect the people against pistol carriers. Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Certainly. Mr. M.Al\TN. I am perfectly willing not to define it either Mr. DIXON of Indiana. In some States they have an excep.. as a misdemeanor or a felony, but to lenve it so that the tion that a traveler hns the right to carry a pistol. · You have court can infiict the three-year punishment, but so that the no such exception. jury and the court are not required either to acquit a man or Mr. JOHNSON. of Kentucky. No; and I do not think we to send him to the penitentiary for one year, when nobody ought to hn>e. would believe in certain cases that it ought to be done. l\Ir. DIXON of Indiana. Did the committee consider that Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, se>eral gentlemen proposition? have spoken of this bill as being very drastic. If it is not very Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Yes; but I think if a man goes drastic, then the committee ha>e utterly failed in their pur­ into your Stnte he ought not to be· permitted to carry a pistol pose, because the purpose of the committee was to make it any more than you who live there. drastic. Unless it is made d.rastic, this practice of carrying Mr. BARTIIOLDT. Will the gentleman yield? concealed deadly wenpons here will not be broken up, and to Mr.' JOHNSON of Kentucky. I will. make it a felony is the only way to break it up. To make it·n Mr. BARTHOLDT. Under the present law what authority felony will disarm every man; and when we disarm every man, grnnts the customary permit to carry concealed weapons? I then no m::rn can h~rre any excuse for even wanting to carry a understancl it is the custom to grant permits to persons to carry deadly weapon. concealed weapons. )Ir. GRAHAM. Will the gentleman yield for a question? Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Yes; and I understand it is Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I will. greatly abused. ~fr . Gil.A.HAM. Is tllere any o>erpowering reason why the l\Ir. BARTHOLDT. Do the commissioners grant them? minimum punishment may not be made lower? Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. They are granted by the court Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. As suggested by the gentleman for 30 dnys at n time and often renewed. from Tennessee [l\1r. SIMS], it might not be a felony then, and l\fr. IlARTHOLD'.r. I notice tllat there is a provision in this so fnr as I am concernec.l personally, I would rather see the bill which does away with that. minimum flrn years than one. Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Yes; we do not want to permit l\fr. GRAHAM. Cases might arise where gross injustice anybody to carry concealed wen.pons, except it be an officer au­ would be doue to some one who was really guilty under the la.w thorized to make arrests. by sending him to the penitentiary for u year. I can conceive Mr. BARTHOLDT. Another question. This bill e-vidently of cnses where three months, or one month, might be punish­ only applies to males. ment enough. Now, wol,lld not the bill, if it becomes a law, be l\Ir. JOHNSON of Kentuck~ . The gentleman will unclerstancl more likely to be enforced by juries and courts if you give a that the word "his ,,·is male, but it applies to the genus homo, wider lntitude in the punishment? both to a male man and to a femnle man. l\fr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I think not ; that has been tried Mr. Il.A.RTHOLDT. I merely want to suggest that it ought in Kentucky, where wo lla-ro a statute making this very offense to embrnce both male and female. punishable by both fine and imprisonment, and in the punish­ l\Ir. MANN. Under the provisions of the first chapter of the ment for every conviction imprisonment goes with the fine; yet Revised. Statutes that is so. it has not broken up the practice, and it is now being agitated l\fr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. l\1r. Speaker, I yield fiye min­ by all the press in Kentucky to make this offense u felony, be­ utes to the gentleman from Mississippi [l\fr. SISSON]. lieving that will break it up. I wish to see it started right Mr. SISSON. l\fr. Speaker, I want to call the attention of here. the House to some views I have on the matter. I do not sup­ Mr. MANN. Will the gentleman yield ? pose any Member of the House is more opposed to carrying Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Certainly. concealed weapons than am I . I introduced a bill putting an Mr. MAJ\TN. The gentleman from Kentucky and the gentle­ internal-revenue tax on the manufacture and sale of these man from Tennessee refer to the matter of felony. I am not weapons. going to (lefine what a felony is at this time. I call the atten­ Now, I can not ad-vacate such a bill w!th my views of the tion of the gentleman to the fact that when we passed the cod!- Constitution, but if Congress is willing to apply the same prin· 4596 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. APnm 11,

ciples as were applied in the blll that was passed to destroy out a peace ·warrant against a man who thrcatcnec the one who threatened his the right to bear arms. The courts have held that the legis­ life put under bond to keep the peace. He woulcl not have to lature cnn prescribe the manner in which arms may be carried, kill him. He could have the man put in jail, ancl would that but neither a State legislature nor Congress can pass a law not be a better remedy? forbidding entirely the carrying of arms. .Mr. SISSON. Unucr this bill no such right as that wcukl be But I call the attention of the House to this provision of the gi>en. Constitution: 1\fr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I will say to the gentJem:m Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor from Mississippi that under the laws of the District of Co­ cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. • lumbia when a man does threaten the life of another l!c can b~ Of course, if we take the general view that the mind of Con­ punished for a grent length of time; he can be put in i1rison for gress may determine absolutely what is an unusual punishment, a longer time in the District of Columbia than in any other without leaving it to the court, that provision of the Constitu­ place in the Union that I know of. If a man threatens the life tion might just as well not ha\e been wi-itten, and for that of another, he can be indicted and tried, convicted, and im­ reason all the criminal statutes that I h.~ow of in all the States prisoned. of the Union, and, so far as I have examined, all the statutes 1\Ir. SISSON. That may be true, but let me tell the gentle­ defining an act to be a crime under the Federal Government, man that I shall neYer, as long as I live under this free ftag, leave a wide discretion in the court so that he may not inflict feel that I am compelled to go and have a mnn incarcerated in nor h 2 compelled to inflict upon the citizen a cruel and unusual order that I may be safe from an attack of another man. punislnuent. I do not believe that the concealed-weapon law Mr. JOHNSON of Kentuclry. Then the gentleman would has operated well throughout the country. prefer to take the lnw in his own hands rather than have a law 1 ha>e always >Oted for a concealed-weapon law, and if which prevents him being put in that position: a man is a habitual criminal, a habitunl thug, a habitual thief, Mr. SISSON. I do not, but I do not want the stntutc Ro be ought to be punished as such, anerc; but with the boy or the mun who is not law in their own hands. a criminal, tl10 man who has never been charged with a crime, Mr. JAMES. The remedy the gentleman shoulc inflicteote upon this bill man for thnt purpose. · it shall ha>e in it such an amendment as that suggested by the l\Ir. CULLOP. Diel you eyer know nnyl>0dy to be bound oYer gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN], and Congress will then to keep the peace-- be doing a sn.ne and rational thing. Mr. J.Al\fES. Oh, in my practice of the law for 20 years I The question suggested by my colleague from Mississippi haYe seen it frequently done. [Mr. HARRISON] is also worthy of consideration on the part . Mr. CULLOP. My experience hns been unc.1er a similar stat­ of the House. In all the States that I know of the question of ute that the man always becomes Yery docile when the hearing whether or not a man's life is in danger and whether a man's is had, and be always escapes being bound over. life hns been threatened is always a matter of defense. In my l\lr. JA.l\IES. Oh, frequently he is bounes to carry a concealed weapon. Such permission can now be in Kentucky. ob tained. under the law in the District of Columbia, but where l\lr. CULLOP. 1\fy experience is different in thn.t matter, or a man's life has been threatened, he must not only prove that, my observation, rnther. but more-that he bas a gootl nnd sufficient rcn. on to belieYe :\Ir. SISSON. l\lr. Speaker, if a man shall give bond to keep that he is in e an equal right to swear Winchester down the street and I sec him, I have the oppor- 1912. OONGRESSION AL RECORD- HOUSE. 4597! l I tunity then of going and getting a Winchester and doing like­ l\lr. 1\IANN. It might be, and perhaps ought to be. I should i wise, or I ha Ye the opportunity of getting out of the way; but say a boy of a few years of age who had taken his father's re­ when be cnrries the weapon concealed he hns all the udnrn­ >OlYer nnc.l pi1t it in his pocket at home, as many a boy has done, tage of me in the world, and that is the reason I despise a and who is arrested for some offense, probably bicycle riding on ' mnn who tnkes an infamous arsenal arounoh·er in 1 the criminal cnrrying weapons, and no · mun in this House his pocket and went out with it, it would be a felony and be belie•es it will e•er. wonlc.l go to the veuitentiary, under tht>se circumstances e that he woulU take it? other lnw of tllis kind. Mr. :MANN. I do not belieTe there would be one boy in a Mr. JACKSO T. I want to call the attention of the gentleman hundred who would know what the law was on tbe subject. I to the fact it will not pre>ent the carrying of a weapon, but only would guar:mtee now that there is not a Member of this House, prevents the concealing of it. includiug the gentleman wllo drew the b!ll and the t;cntlcmnn Mr. SISSON. I think the law has done a good deal of good, who reported the bill, " ·ho knows what the law is to-cl::ty on the but the law against murder has not prevented murders being su!}ject of carrying deatUy weapons, so ns to co>er every pro­ committed and the law ngainst arson has not prevented that vision in it. And yet we expect boys to know all about it who crime, and I do not want to repeal tllem at all. Of course I know nothin~ with reference to the law at nll. would not repeal this law and I am willing this shall become a l\1r. SDIS. I want to ask the gentleman how ma ny ~ood law if you can make the punishment in it reasonable and not fathers he thinks will keep a pistol stuck around their premise~ unreasonable. if it is a felony for his boy, or himself either, to carry a con­ .l\fr. Sll\IS. Would you think a burglar who carried a pistol cealed weapon? around and killed somebody was sufficiently punished when sent Mr. MANN. Well, I think it is quite proper to keep a pistol to the penitentiary for one rear? in your llouse, or some other kind of weapon. While I have M:r. SISSON. When u man carries a pistol it is an unusual not done it in recent years, if I were keeping house here in punishment to sel!d him to the penitentiary. I .am nmvllling some llouse in the town, and li>ing there with my wife alone, that a boy 15, 17, or 18 years old who is caught with a pistol I would feel I was dercUct in my duty if I clid not have some in the District of Columbia shall be sent to the penitentiary weapon in the house either to defend my wife in my absence and haye his young life blighted. or defend oursel>es nt night. That is not against the law. l\Ir. JOHNSON of Kentucky. He will not put it in his pocket Mr. SIMS. l\lr. Speaker, I am sorry the gentleman suffers if this ln.w passes. so much fear. I have a larger family than he has, ancl I have Mr. SISSON. We ought to be angels, but we are not. We ne>er hae followed by reason of not having such a law as this in lieu thereof tl.Jc following: " IJc ·fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than three on the books. I do not care what the laws of the District of years, or both." Columbia are now. I can not repeat >erbatim what they are. But I know they do not protect the people from the evil of l\Ir. JOHNSON of Kenwcky. If you will put it " and both," carrying concealed weapons. What burglar, white or black, or I will agree to it. what criminal, white or black, would care for go~ng down ancl Mr. !II.ANN. Well, I could not do that. Mr. Speaker, the perjuring himself and saying that his life was in danger in proposition which I have offered ·is to strike out the penalty of order to carry a concealed deadly weapon? It is too late in not less than one year nor more than three years, and insert in this age of ciyilization for any gentleman to get up and oppose lieu thereof a fine of not more than $1,000 or imprisonment of this bill on hypothetica.J, impossible cases which people imagine not more than tllree years, or both, to be left to the discretion might happen. of the juclge. Mr. O'SIIA.UNESSY. Ur. .Speaker, will the gentleman yield? In the criminal code, as I remarked a while ago, which we The CHAIIll\!A.N. Does the gentleman from Tennessee yield passed a few years back, we adopted the policy which is carried to the gentleman from Ilhode Island? · through every section of the code, using the form which I have l\Ir. SUIS. Yes. used in this a.mendn;lent. For instance, in section 2 of the code it says : · · Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. I want to ask the gentleman from Tennessee if the penalty of one year's imprisonment is the Whoever * * * shall be fined not more than $1,000 or impris­ lowest prescribed for a felony in th~ District? 'oned not more than one year; or both. l\Ir. Sil\IS. I could not st.ate positi"\'e1y· how that is. But , l\Ir. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I will ask the gentleman if a whether it is or is not, why does the gentleman want, anything .fin~ of $1 -could not there be imposed? less t han· a year for · a man to walk around here as a human 4598 CONGRESSIONAL -RECORD-HOUSE. APRIL 11~ ) arsenal, with the Army and the Navy, the· Metropolitan police, l\fr. SIMS. Yes. He never carries a weapon as an orna­ ! and the Capitol police all here to protect him against any possi­ ment secretly. He always carries it openly in that case, as I ble assaults that may be made upon him? he would carry n sword, or something of that sort. There is l\ir. O'SHAUNESSY. I want to ask the gentleman this gther nothing in the bill to prevent that. question : Suppose the case suggested by the gentleman from Mr. STANLEY. The gentleman docs not catch my meaning, Illinois [Mr. l\IANN], of a young man taking a pistol from his I fear. Is there anything in the bill-I was not here when it father's home. Does not the gentleman believe that a penalty was read-excepting cases where a man, for instnnce, should of one year in a penitentiary, as provided under this bill, would, buy a razor and take it home, or get his revolver repaired and under those circumstances, be an excessive and an unusual pun- have a piece of 11aper wrapped about it to take it home? Is ishment? • there any distinction drawn here between carrying a weapon for .Mr. SIMS. Of course you can imagine hypothetical cases and purposes of homicidal fancies and carrying it for the innocent impossible cases, and thereby prevent the passage of -any crim­ purposes named by the gontlemnn? inal law. In the first place, the good father is not going to have l\:fr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. There a.re no more exceptions the pistol. In the second place, the boy is not going to carry in this bill than there are in Kentucky, where the gentleman it; and in the third place, if such a case should occur, we have lives. got the pardoning power. Now, we should not stand back and Mr. STANLEY. The law says "carrying as a weapon." I continue the present conditions for the sake of considerations caught it from the gentleman's speech, but not from the bill. which may be conjured up by a heated imagination as to a boy Mr. KENDALL. There is no provision in this bill that makes who might carry his father's pistol out while his father was that distinction. holding a prayer meeting. I do not belie>e such a case will l\Ir. l\IANN. The bill docs not even say " weapons." It says occur, and if it did the punishment would be so severe in its " instruments." It says " weapons or instruments." nature that the pardoning power would come to his relief. l\ir. KENDALL. It says· "persons carrying these weapons." Mr. O'SHAU:N'ESSY. Will the gentleman permit another Mr. SIUS. It does not become a weapon unless it is carried question? as a weapon. l\Iy frioo.erybody' con­ l\Ir. SIMS. In a concealed manner. cedes the wisdom of enacting proper safeguards as to the car­ .l\fr. YOUNG of Kansas. And the question as to whether a rying of deadly weapons. Would the gentleman have any man is cavrying it in a concealecl manner is a question purely objection to striking out the minimum penalty in the bill and of fact, triable by a jury or the judge. making the clause read thn.t the punishment shall be imprison­ l\Ir. SHIS. Certainly it is. ment in the penitentiary for not more than three years? l\fr. YOUNG of Kansas. So that the question that the gentle­ Mr. SIMS. That is the suggestion of the gentleman from man asks can be answered very. easily. Illinois. Mr. KONOP. If I carry a razor in my pocket, is not that Mr. KE~"'D.A.LL. What could be the objection to allowing the concealed? court to determine in such a case and exercise a wide discretion l\ir. YOUNG of Kansas. That is purely a question of fact, to as to the punishment that ought to be applied? be tried by the judge or jury. 1\Ir. Sil\IS. Let me tell you what would happen. Judges arc l\!r. KONOP. The fact is that it is concealed in my pocket. human; they are open to appeals to sympathy when it is in l\Ir. SIMS. Does the gentleman want to amend this bill so as their power to punish a crime and fix the penalty. As I say, to permit a razor to be carried as a weapon? the poor, friendless negro boy, or the poor, friendless white boy, l\Ir. KONOP. Not at all. I i::hould like to have the bill will be trotted otr to his three years of punishment in the peni­ amended so that if a man carries a gun or a razor or a knife tentiary, but the rich and infiuential boy will probably get the for any other purpose than that of assault he shall not be, minimum. Now, why not have a rigid minimum? That is the guilty of a violation 6f the law. way to prevent crime. Make the punishment in the first place l\fr. SIMS. That would ruin the bill, and I am opposed to it. such as will prevent the commission t>f the crime, and do not If the gentleman wants a law which will permit the carrying of put it in the power of any judge to reduce it below that dirks, sword canes, and other weapons, and yet make it neces­ minimum. sary to prove that they arc carried as weapons, when they arc l\lr. KENDALL. But suppose the question of guilt is to be homicidal weapons, tllen the gentleman is opposed to the law, determine<]: by the court-- and that is all there is to it. What we ought to do, under the Mr. SIMS. Certainly-- obligation resting upon us, is to make a rigid minimum penalty. Ur. KENDALL (continuing). In that case does the gentle­ When we enact such a law it will break up tho practice of carry­ man believe that juries can be assembled that will convict people ing deadly weapons. In this city, where two Presidents have where the punishment is as excessive as is provided in this bill? been shot down by assassins who carried concealed weapons l\ir. SUI~. Oh, the punishment is never excessive when it and where others may be, where they have a large force of is necessary to have the la. w obeyed. secret detectives now who go around with the President. every Mr. KENDALL. I think it would defeat the purpose of the time he goes out, a minimum punishment of one year for carry­ bill itself. • ing a concealed weapon is graciously low. Mr. SIMS. Do you think the jury and the judge would l\Jr. CALLA:W AY. Will the gentleman yield for a question? perjure themseh·es when the evidence is clear and plain, simply Mr. SIMS. Yes. because the judge and the jury might differ with Congress as to l\Ir. CALLA WAY. Docs the gentleman think that the fellow the degree of punishment that ought to be inflicted? who intends to kill a President will hesitate on account of the Mr. KENDALL. Does not the gentleman know that in all penalty for carrying a weapon of that kind? history where penalties are too severe, the juries will not apply l\Ir. Sil\IS. Ile might not, if he was crazy. them? l\ir. CALLAWAY. Docs the gentleman think that a man who Mr. SIMS. No; I do not think that is true. intends to commit an offense that will subject him to capital Mr. KONOP. Suppose I should put a razor in my pocket in punishment will be deter·red by the penalty provided in this the morning and bring it over to the barber shop to have it bill? sharpened. Would I be subject to a penalty? l\fr. Sil\:IS. Not in the case of a crazy man, of course not. l\Ir. SIMS. Oh, no. You are nat going to use it as a weapon. l\Ir. CALLAWAY. Does the gentleman think a man who is No jury would convict you under those circumstances. going to commit a burglary will stop on account of the penalty Mr. STA.:NLEY. l\Ir. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? provided in this bill for carrying a weapon? The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Tennessee yield Mr. SIMS. I certainly do. to the gentleman from Kentucky? l\Ir. CALLAWAY. He is going to commit a greater offense, Mr. SIMS. I do. that will submit him to a heavier penalty. l\fr. STAl\'LEY. Is there a provision in the bill defining when Mr. SIMS. He may not be caught. Is the gentleman opposed a man carries an instrument of death as a weapon and when to this bill? . he carries it as an ornament or in a legftimate way or acci- l\fr. CALLAWAY. Yes; I am opposed, as a general thing, to dentally, or anything of that sort? · any bill that makes a thing a felony that is not a. crime per se. 1912. OONGRESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE. 4599

Mr. Sil\IS. '.Ebon, tho gentleman will hnYe to amend e1ery and a well-known criminal. Take a young m:m who would criminal cc-Je in tllis country, if be is in fayor of making crimes have a pistol in his pocket cnrrying it from n neighbor's to his only tllose tllings which are mala in se. If the gentleman de­ own house for some protection of llis family, and he should be sires to make nothing punishnble unless it is a natural crime caught with that weapon concealed in his pocket, you could not he will start a revolution in tllis country. find a jury in this whole country that would send him to the Mr. CALLAWAY. I said a felony. I am not in favor, gen" penitentiary. nut there are cnses wllerc mon should be pun­ ernlly, of making a thing a felony that is not a crime per se. ished for carrying a weapon where it is not of such a nature Mr. SIMS. Then, I have no argument with fue gentleman. as to inrnke a penitentiary· sentence. I bopc tbe chairman of I am not surprised. that he is opposed to this bill. the committee will accept tllis amendment offered by the gen­ Mr. TRIBBLE. Suppose a sight-seeing party from my State tleman from Illinois. It will insure the carrying out of tllis should come to the Capital, and in that' party passing _through proposed law, and insure what we want, a stop put to the car­ Washington there was a 15-year-old boy who had a pistol in rying of ccncealed weapons in the District of Columbia. his pocket. Does the gentleman think he ought to be sent to If you find concealed weapons on a criminnl or a vicious the penitentiary for a number of years? character, the jury and the court will ordinarily send him to Mr. SIMS. I think he ought to be sent somewhere for ever the penitentiary;. but you ought to make some proYision for the starting with such a weapon. man of good character, who has been found to ba1e upon him a Mr. TRIBBLE. I do not. concealed weapon, or a man who is passing through the District. Mr. SIMS. I think he ought to be punished to some extent I do not believe that a man who is passing through the District, for living in a State that permits such a thing. It would be going from one place to another, should IJe convicted and. pun­ hard on the boy, but he ought to live in a better State. ished for having a revolver upon him. The laws of most States l\Ir. TRIBBLE. May I ask the gentleman another question. make exceptions to sucll cases, and proYide that where a man Suppose the laws of tllat State are lax, or it is no violation of is merely passing through a State on a mission of business or law in that State, is it not natural to suppose tllat tlle boy otherwise, and conducting himself properly, that this law should might think it was so here? not be made applicable to him. Let us pass this bill so fuat it l\Ir. SIMS. Why does your Georgia boy want to come to the can be enforced and will bring the results looked for. I hope, Ca11ital of the Nation with a pistol in his pocket? Ur. SpeRker, that this amendment will be agre~ cl to. Mr. TRIBBLE. Wby do people violate the laws, anyway? Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. l\fr. Speaker, the object of this Mr. SIMS. The gentleman states an extreme casa tlult would bill is to make the carrying of concealed deadly we:lpons a not happen in 100 years. felony. When any amendment is adopted. which makes it a Mr. HARRISON of Mississippi. Will the gentleman yield? smaller offense than a felony I nm against it, because the law l\1r. SIMS. Yes. as it exists in the District of Columbia to-day fixes a small Mr. HARRISON of Mississippi. I want to ask tlle gentle­ minimum fine, and that law is as good as the nmendment that man if it is not a fact that in some States-I know that it is is offered. If such an amendment is adopted I shall move to so in my own State-that there can be set up as a defense fue fay all amendments on the table and hope tlle bill will be fact that a person was traveling such a distance from his defeated. home .fuat took him beyond the circle of his ·friends and ac­ Mr. TOWNER. Mr. Speaker, the consideration of this bill quaintances, and might not fue boy from Georgia be under the is, in my judgment, a 1ery important matter, and I think it is impression that the law was the same here as there? wen for the House to weigh carefully what is meant by it. It Mr. SIMS. If he was, why that boy from Georgia would be is possible to suggest cases in which the operation of this law pardoned or never convicted. may work a llardship. But if this House passes this bill to-day, Mr. RAKER. Wlll the gentleman yield? making the carrying of a concealed weapon a felony, witll no Mr. SIMS. Certainly. right in the court to impose a less punishment, the news of that Mr. RAKER. I ~ee in fue bill, in line 6, it speaks of a clasp action on the part of Congress will go all over the United knife, and in lines 6, 7, or S it says "or other deadly weapons." States; and there is no 15-year-old boy with intelligence enough That provision of the bill would prevent a man carrying a to find his way to the National Capital wllo will not know that pocketknife. All the courts bave he1d that a knife that pro­ such a law is in existence, and who will not know that he incurs duced death is a deadly weapon. this penalty if he carries a concealed weapon when he comes Mr. Sll\IS. The bill provides for the length of blade-3 here. I am in fa>or of the action which is now contemplated, inches. It may be amended to make it 3! or 4 inches. I want because I belie>e that any less punishment will not have the to say to gentlemen that the bill, before it was amencled, was effect that is desired. drawn by the corporation counsel of the District of Columbia. .l\Ir. DYER. 1\Ir. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? I did not draw it. It was drawn to meet conditions existing Mr. TOWNER. Certainly. here, and the committee amendments are intended only to benefit Mr. DYER. Let us take the case of one of the boys that the the bill. gentleman mentions-a young man coming, say, from his own Mr. RAKER. Will the gentleman yield for a further ques­ State, who does not know about this penalty of a penitentiary tion? sentence for carrying a gun. Suppose he should have purchased .Mr. SIMS. Yes. one here in Washington or rnmewhere else and was carrying Mr. .RAKER. Is there any difference between a b1ade 2 it home, does the gentleman think that he should be sent to fue inches long and one 6 inches long as to tho effect it will have .penitentiary and made a convict an.cl a felon because of that? in attempting to cut a man's throat? l\1r. TOWNEil. Mr. Speaker, I believe, in the first place, Mr. SIMS. I think so. l\fr. Speaker, I yield the floor. that there will be no boy, as I suggested a moment ago, of suf­ l\f r. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, I move fue pre­ ficient intelligence to find his way here who will not know, if vious question on the bill and amendments. this bill is pas:wd, what will be tlle penalty for such an act. Mr. CULLOP. I hope the gentleman will not do that; I ha>e Mr. Speaker, the time has come when this country must iolent crime l\fr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I will withhold it until the gen­ that is the greatest disgrace this Nation to-day suffers, not only tleman offers it. Mr. Speaker, I will withdraw the demand for in the esteem of the world, but in fue judgment of all good the previous question and I demand the regular order. people. It is a striking commentary upon the standards that The SPEAKER. The question is on the amendment offered we have established in this country that we are to-day the by the gentleman from Illinois. most violent Nation on earth, the Nation that has the greatest Mr. DYER. Mr. Speaker, I want to say a word in favor of percentage of Yiolent crimes, the Nation that has the least this amendment. I believe that if this bill is passed as it is, regard for human life -of any nation in the world, and, 1\Ir. imposing a penitentiary sentence, that the law will repeal itself. Speaker, it seems to me we can do no greater act to stem this I have had experience, as I have no doubt other gentlemen here tide of violence in the country than to set here an example tllat ha>e had, in the prosecution of men charged with the carrying will go out to every part of the Nation that we are opposed to of concealed weapons. We have in my State, and in the courts anything that will lead to further crimes of this character. where I bad some experience prosecuting, a statute-I often While we here in the city of Washington maintain fue open saw it called into action-which makes it a felony to carry saloon and then invite those to come here with the tendency to concealed weapons. But it also provides punishment by jail buy revol>ers or to bring fuem here, it seems to me we are and fine, as well as a penitentiary sentence. I have prosecuted almost inviting fue conditions that arise when passions are in­ numerous cases before jurles of men charged with carrying flamed until all restraint is taken away and crimes of violence concealed weapons, and I have never seen in my experience a follow. It seems to me that the high standards of our ci1iliza­ jury that would send a man to the penitentiary for carrying a tion, that the great necessity that we now see before us, ought concealed weapon unless that man was a most vicious character to lead us to take this action out of regard to the safety of the . XLVIII-289 4600 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. APRIL 11, lh·es of the citizens of the country, and especially of this dis­ l\fr. CULLOP. If the question had been presented to the trict. jury, they would not have found him to be a traveier. Now, I l\Ir. CULLOP. l\fr. Speaker, I take it from the discussion want to call attention to another feature in the bill which is here this morning that the purpose of this bill is to meet a local objectionable. In line 9, page 2, it contains this language, condition which is assumed to exist here in the city of Wash­ "officers gunxding legal prisoners." Now, is there any prisoner ington. At the proper time I desire to offer an amendment who is not a legal prisoner? which I believe is necessary to perfect this bill and which I l\Ir. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Plenty of them. think the committee will adopt. That amendment will be as Mr. CULLOP. I never heard of it. Who is not n legal follows : prisoner if properly under arrest? In line 4, after the word "Columbia," insert the words "not then and Mr. JOHNSON of E,:entuck:y. Are not plenty of people ille­ there being a traveler." gally aFrested ?· l\lr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. If he is walking along the street Mr. CULLOP. That presents a very different question. As is he not a tra>el er? Jong as he is in the custody of the officer he is a legal prisoner Mr. CULLOP. No; that is not the sense in which the word as far as the law is concerned. The word "legal" ought to go "traveler" is used at all, as the courts have defined it in State out of it or you will have simply emasculated the force of your after State. It bas a well defined meaning. The danger of this statute on this subject. If a man is under arrest by an officer, bill is the excessive punishment. When you add to a criminal he is legally holding him-at least by color of law if not by statute an excessive punishment you have nullified the statute process of law-by the authority of the officer himself, who itself, and you can not enforce the· punishment. When you is made a guardian of the peace by virtue of his office, and you make such a penalty as you propose here, you would be power­ have simply made that provision nugatory if you leave it there less to enforce the statute. Juries will not enforce it because in that way. Now, Mr. Speaker, I hope this bill will pass iu the punishment provided is excessive. I hope that the amend­ proper form. The carrying of concealed weapons is one of the ment suggested by the gentleman from Iowa [l\Ir. KE1'""J)A.LL] grave offenses of the country and should be prevented by proper will be accepted, if you want to cure this evil. police regulations. In the commission of the offense here defined all offenders Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee. Will the gentleman yielcl? should not be punished alike. You have fixed the same pun­ Mr. CULLOP. Yes. ishment for e\eryone who commits this crime, no matter what l\fr. BYRNS of Tennessee. I understood the gentleman to the character of the offender and the aggravation attending its say the word "traveler" is pretty well defined or settled. commission. A man who would carry a pistol or any other Mr. CULLOP. In the courts; yes. weapon in ti.me of peace in a civilized country like this ought to Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee. Will the gentleman say that be punished, of course. He has no need for it, and the punish­ a man who li\ed just outside the District, or over in the ment ought to be severe, but if you make it too severe, as you city of Alexandria, who came to Washington for some purpose, are attempting to here, you will be unable to enforce the statute, was a tra>eler; or would it be necessary for him to live in In­ for the reason that the courts and the juries will hesitate to con­ diana or Tennessee? vict when persons charged are tried. For that reason I think Mr. CULLOP. Certainly not. That would be a question of that the suggestion of the gentleman from Iowa ought to be fact under the proof whether he is a traveler or not, and the adopted, and also the amendment that I propose to offer. courts have repeatedly construed similar statutes. This puts Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Speaker, will the gentle.man yield? it in the language of se>ernl State statutes if we enact this Mr. CULLOP. Certainly. provision. Mr. JACKSON. I would like to ask the gentleman if he Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee. How far would he have to live thinks that Guiteau, who shot President Garfield, would be from the city of Washington in order for him to come under termed a traveler under the amendment that he offers? the term of " traveler "? Mr. CULLOP. Oh, you would not try him for carrying a Mr. CULLOP. He can live in the city of Washington and l>o concealed weapon. His offense would come under a different a traveler, and he may live remotely from Wnshington and be statute altogether. It is not in point. here and not be a traveler. I hope the gentleman, as a lawyer, Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. You would, if you had caught does not put np that kind of a proposition to me. A man in him before he killed the President. the city of Washington could be starting out on a journey and l\Ir. CULLOP. He would be tried for the crime that he com­ have a weapon and carry it and be a traveler, and a man living mitted, and if he was found in the city of Washington not pass­ in Alexandria and coming here with a weapon in his pocket ing through or traveling from one point to another, he would might not be a traveler. - be found not to be a traveler under the construction that the Mr. McKELLAU. Would a Member of Congress be a traveler courts in almost every State in the Union have placed upon that under this bill? word when used in the connection it is here employed. Such l\lr. CULLOP. He might be under some circumstances, and an illustration is not pertinent to the subject matter under dis­ under others he would not be. If he lives here and goes about cussion. the city he would not be a traveler and could not claim immu­ Mr. JACKSON. Suppose some police officer had arrested him nity from punishment, and if he carried a weapon he should be before he committed a crime? condemned, and severely so. For him there would be no· Mr. CULLOP. He would not be guilty under the statement I justification. ha--ve made of carrying concealed weapons. ~Ir . McKIDLLAR. I agree with the gentleman heartily- OJ:t Mr. JACKSON. He would be a traYeler. that. 1\lr. CULLOP. No; he would not be a traveler under the Mr. CULLOP. In my judgment, he ought to,Iose his seat if construction courts Ilave placed on similar statutes. It is a he carries one, because he, above all others, should not indulge question of fact to be determined in the trial of the case, like in such a dangerous thing. n.ny other question of fact Mr. McKELLAR. I agree entirely with the gentleman in Mr. JACKSON. Does not the gentleman think we ought to that. have some definition in the law as to what constitutes a Mr. l\f.A.DDEN. I wish to offer an amendment which I have traveler? written on the bottom of this page. 1\!r. CULLOP. Oh, no; we could not well do that, as the l\fr. KENDALL. Is it a substitute? circumstances of every case must larsely determine it. It is a Mr. l\IADDEN. It is an amendment to the amendment offered question of fact nnder the proof whether a man is a traveler by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. CULLOP], and I ask to have or not. If he is stopping here jn Washington month afte.r it read. month be is not a traveler. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Indiana Mr. JACKSON. What does the gentleman think of the man has not offered an amendment. who shot .McKinley at Buffalo-I can not pronounce his name­ Mr. CULLOP. I am going to offer it as an amendment at the Czolgosz, I think it was, or Eiomething of that kind? proper- time. Mr. CULLOP. There is not anything in this statute which . Mr. .MANN. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all shows he was or wns not a traveler at an ; nothing whatever. debate upon the amendment which I have pending be closed. He was not a traveler. He was punished for a higher offense. Then the gentle.man can offer his arqendment. 1\lr. JACKSON. My impression from what I remember of The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Illinois the history of the event is that he went there for the purpose· asks unanimous consent that all debate on his amendment be of killing President McKinley and coming a way again. closed. rs there objection? Mr. CULLOP. He was not a traveler, and no jury would M'r. DE FOREST. Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the haT"e so found him to be; there is no trouble about determining amendment reported again. the qnestion of faet in such cases, as our decided cases show. Tbe SPEAKER pro tempore. Without objec-tion, the amend­ Mr. J ACKSON. I am merely asking the question. ment will be again reported. \ 1912. .CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 4601 \ The amendment was again reported. McCall Olmsted Rodenberg Rterllng I McCreary Page Rothermel Talbott, Md. The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The McDermott Palmer Rucker, Colo. Taylor, Ala. Chair hears none. The question is now on the amendment McGillicuddy Parran Sabatb Taylor, Ohio offered by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN]. McHenry Patten, N. Y. Saunders Thayer McKinley Patton, Pa. Scully Thlstlewood The question was taken, and the Chair announced that the McLaughlin Plumley Sharp Tilson ayes seemed to have it. Maher Porter Sheppard Townsend Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Division, l\fr. Speaker. 1\Ialby Powers Slemp Underhill Martin, Colo. Pray Small Vreeland The House divided; and there were-ayes 57, noes 8. Matthews Prince Smith, Saml. W. Warburton Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, I make the point Mays Pujo Smith, Cal. Whitacre of no quorum. Mondell Rainey Sparkman Wilson, Ill. The SPEAKER. The Chair will count. [After counting.] Moon, Pa. Ransdell, La. Speer Wilson, Pa. Moore, Pa. Rauch Stack Witherspoon Evidently there is not a quorum present. Morse, Wis. Reyburn Stanley Young, :Mich. l\fr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. l\Ir. Speaker, I demand the yeas Mott Roberts, Nev. Stephens, Nebr. and nays on that. Murray Ilobins'on Stephens, Tex. The SPEAKER. The yeas and nays come automatically. So the amendment was agreed to. The Doorkeeper will close the doors, and the Sergeant at Arms The Clerk announced the following pairs: will notify the absentees, and the Clerk will call the roll. For the session : The question was taken; and there were-yeas 183, nays 26, Mr. PuJo with Mr. :Mcl\foRRAN. answered " present" 12, not voting 170, as follows: M:r. COLLIER with l\Ir. WooDs of Iowa. YEAS-183. Mr. ADAMSON with Mr. STEVENS of Minnesota. Akin, N. Y. Driscoll, D. A. Kitchin Richardson Mr. GLAss with Mr. SLEMP. Alexander Driscoll, M. E. Knowland Hoberts, Mass. : M:r. FORNES with l\Ir. BR.ADLEY. Allen Dyer Konop Roddcnbery · Anderson, Minn. Edwards Korbly Ru bey l\Ir. RIORDAN with l\f1~ ANDRUS. Anthony Ellerbe Lafean Rucker, Mo. l\fr. BARTLETT with Mr. BUTLER. Austin I~'aison Lafferty Sells narnbart Fergusson La Follette Shackleford Until further notice: nartholdt Ferris Lawrence Sberley l\fr. RAUCH with Mr. RODERTS of Nm·ada. Bathrick Finley Lee, Ga. Sherwood Mr. p ALMER with l\fr. McKINLEY. llell, Ga. Flood, Va. Legare Simmons Mr. STANLEY with l\Ir. YOUNG of Michigan. Blackmon Floyd, Ark. Lenroot Sisson Boehne Fowler Lindbergh Slayden l\Ir. DIES with Mr. COPLEY. no ob er French Linthicum Sloan ·1 l\:lr. LITTLETON with Mr. DWIGHT. Borland Garner Lloyd Smith, J. M. C. ,;. Mr. l\!URRAY with l\fr. MATTHEWS. Ilrantley Garrett Lo beck Smith, N. Y. ~ Browning Godwin, N. C. McCoy Stedman l\Ir. HAMILTON of West Virginia with l\fr. Loun. Tiurg'eSS Goeke McKenzie Steenerson l\fr. MCGILLICUDDY with Mr. GUERNSEY, Burke, S. Dal::. Golclfogle McKinney Stephens, Cal; Mr. SPARKMAN with l\fr. DAVIDSON. Bul'ke, Wis. Good l\ladden Stephens, Miss.· Burnett Goodwin, Ark. Maguire, Nebr. Stone l\fr. FOSTER with Mr. KOPP. Hymes, S. C. Graham Mann Sulzer l\fr. DIFENDERFER with l\fr. l\fcCRE.A.RY. <..:alder Greene, Mass. Martin, S. Duk. Sweet Callaway Gregg-, •.rex. Miller - Switzer Mr. CURLEY with l\fr. PRINCE. Candler Hamill Moon, Tenn. Tai:rgart l\Ir. RAINEY with Mr. KENNEDY. Cannon Hamilton, Mich. Moore, Tex. Talcott, N. Y. l\Ir. TALBOTT of Maryland with Mr. p ARRAN. Carlin Hamlin Morgan Taylor, Colo. Catlin Hammond 1\Iorrison Thomas Mr. Cox of Indiana with l\fr. REYBURN. Claypool Hanna Moss, Ind. Tribble l\Ir. BEALL of Texas with l\fr. GRIEST. Cline Hardy Murdock Turnbull l\Ir. CONNELL with l\Jr . .HARRIS. Cooper Harrison, Miss. Ncedha'm Tuttle Mr. MAYS with Mr. THISTLEWOOD. Cox, Obio Haugen Neeley Underwood Crago Heald Nelson Utter Mr. ROTIIERMEL with l\Ir. CARY. Crumpacker Heflin Norris Volstead Mr. CLARK of Florida with Mr. LANGIIAM. Cullop Henry, Conn. Nye Watkins l\ir. EVANS with HOWELL. Curry Hensley O'Shaunessy Webb nir. Danforth Higgins Payne Wedemeyer l\fr. THAYER with Mr. AMES. Daugherty FI ill Pepper Weeks l\Ir. TAYLOR of Alabama with Mr. RODENBERG. Davenport Holland Peters White l\Ir. De Forest Howard Pickett Wickliffe l\fr. MCDERMOTT with Foss. Dent Hughes, Ga. Post Wilder l\fr. HOBSON with l\Ir. FAIRCHILD. Dickinson Hull Pou Willis Mr. FIELDS with Mr. LANGLEY. Dixon, Ind. Jackson Prouty ·Wilson. N. Y . . Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee with l\Ir. TILsox. Dodds Kendall Ilaker Wood, N. J. · Dol'emus Kent Handell, Tex. Woods, Iowa : l\fr. IIousToN" with Mr. l\IooN of Pennsyl1ania. Doughton Kinkaid, Nebr. nccs · Young, Tex. Mr. GALLAGHER with l\fr. FuLLER. - Draper Kinkead, N. J. Hellly l\fr. S11IALL with l\fr. OLMSTED. NAYS-2G. l\fr. COVINGTON" with Mr. MOTT. Adair Gray McKellar Sims Mr. JONES with Mr. l\fooRE of Pennsyl1ania. .Anderson, Ohio Hay Macon Smith, Tex. Ashbrook Hayden Oldfield Sulloway Mr. WITHERSPOON with l\Ir. l\loNDELL. Berger Henry, Tex. Padgett Towner Mr. WILSON of Pennsylvania with l\:lr. l\IALBY. Denver Hubbard Redfield Young, Kans. Mr. UNDERHILL with l\Ir. l\fcLAUGIILIN. George Johnson, Ky. Rouse Gillett Johnson, S. C. Hussell ]\fr. TOWNSEND with Mr. LoNGWORTII. ANSWERED " PRESENT "-12. l\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas with l\fr. WILSON" of Illinois. Ryrns, Tenn. Davidson Fuller McMorran l\Ir. STEPIIENS of Nebraska with Mr. w ARDURTON. Campbell Dwight Hobson Riordan l\fr. STACK with l\Ir. VREELAND. Carter Foster McGuire, Okla. Stevens, Minn. Mr. SHARP with l\fr. TAYLOR of Ohio. NOT VOTING-170. l\fr. SADATII with Mr. STERLING. Adamson Connell Fornes Howland l\fr. RuoKER of Colorado with l\Ir. SPEER. Aiken, S. C. Conry Foss Hughes, N. J. l\Ir. PAGE with l\Ir. SMITH of California. Ainey Copley Francis Hughes, W. Va. Ames Covington Gallagher Humphrey, Wnsh. l\Ir. MARTIN of Colorado with l\Ir. SAMUEL W. SMITH. Andrus Cox, Ind. Gardner, Mass. Humphreys, Miss. Mr. LEWIS with Mr. PRAY. Ans berry Cravens Gardner, N. J. .Jacoway l\fr. PATTEN of New York with l\fr. POWERS. Ayres Curley Glass James Barchfeld Currier Gould Jones l\fr. LEVER with l\Ir. PORTER . . Bartlett Dalzell Green, Iowa Kahn l\1r. LEE of Pennsylvania with l\fr. PLU11fLEY. Bates Davis, Minn. Gregg, Pa. Kennedy l\fr. KINDRED with Mr. PATTON of Pennsylnnia. Beall, Tex. Davis, W. Va. Griest Kindred Bowman Dickson, Miss. Gudger Konig Mr. JACOWAY with l\Ir. KAHN. Hrndley Dies Guernsey Kopp Mr. HUMPHREYS of Mississippi with l\Ir. HUMPHREY of Wash­ Broussard Difenderfer Hamilton, W. Va. Lamb ington. llrown Donohoe Hardwick Langham Buchanan Dupre Harris Langley l\fr. HuorrEs of New Jersey with Mr. HUGHES of West Vir- Bulkley Esch Harrison, N. Y. Lee, Pa. ginia. Durke, Pa. Estopinal Hartman Lever Mr. HELM with Mr. HAYES. llurleson Evans ~ Hawley Levy Butler Fairchild Hayes Lewis l\Ir. HARRISON of New York with Mr. HOWLAND. Can trill Farr Helgesen Lindsay Mr. HARDWICK with l\1r. HAWLEY. Cary Fields Helm Littlepage l\Ir. GUDGER "With l\Ir. GREEN of Iowa. Clark, Fla. Fitzgerald Hinds Littleton Clayton Focht Houston Lon~orth Mr. FRANCIS with l\1r. GARDNER of New Jersey. Collier Fordney Howell Loud l\fr. FITZGERALD with Mr. FORDNEY. ) ~602 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-ROUSE. APRIL 11,

Mr. Durn:f: with Mr. FOCHT. The Clerk reaes to lay the bill and amendments the1'eto on the table. ing the amendment. • The question is on agreeing to that motion. The SPEAKER. Has the gentleman from Kentucky any ex­ The motion '\\US rejected. planation to offer to the gentleman from Illinois? The SPEAKER. The Clerk '\\ill report the first committee . Ur. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I have no explanation about it. amendment. Mr. l\L'\.~"N. I say the amenclment ns printed proposes to l\Ir. Sii\fS. Mr. Speaker, n parlinmentury question. strike out "I'i·o'Uided, That prosecutions." The amendment The SPEA.KER. The -gentleman will state it. strikes out the word "prosecutions." That would require prose­ l\lr. SIMS. Does not the management of the bill now pass to cutions in two places. The amendment should l>e to strike out the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN]? "Pro&'ided, That." The printing of the.bill itself shows that. Mr. l\.IANN. Oh, not at all. l\fr. CULLOP. And there should be a period after the word Mr. SIMS. In the present i1arliaruentary situation? "years." Mr. MANN. Oh, not at all in the parliamentary situation. Ur. :\1AN:X-. The report shows that the 11rinting of the bill is The mere offering of ::m amendment and its adoption do not erroneous, and that the amendment intended is to strike out the transfer the control of the bill. words "I'ro'Uided, That," and to commence the word "prosecu- The SPEAKER. The Chair has charge of this bill now, and tion " with a capital P. . the Clerk will report the first committee amendment. [Ap­ The SPE.A.KER. If there be no objection, the amendment, plause.] change, or correction suggested by the gentlem:rn from Illinois The Clerk read as follows: will be agreed to. On page 1, line 3, strike out the words "'or persons." 'l'here was no objection. The SPEAKER. The question is on a$'reeing to the amend­ The Clerk read the next committee amendment, ns follows~ ment. In line G1 strike out the colon and the remainder of the line. Strike The question was taken, and the Speaker announced that the out all of hne 7 and line 8 down to and including the word " police." noes seemed to ha >e it. The amendment was agreed to. l\fr. l\IA:NN. l\Ir. Speaker, I demand a division. The Clerk read the next committee amendment, as follows : The SPEAKER. A division is demanded. In line !) Insert, after the word "guarding," the word " legal." The House di\ided; and there were-ayes 59, noes 1. l\Ir. RA.KER. l\fr. Speaker, this amendment ought not to be So the amendment was agreed to. adopted. If it is adopted, you will nullify the bill in part. Who The SPEAKER. The Clerk Will report the next committee is a legal prisoner? Are you going to wait until a man is con­ amendment. victed in o.rder to determine that he is a legal prisoner? Must The Clerk read as follows: you try him before the officer is to take hold of him? I hope In line 4, after the word "concealed," insert the words ••upon or." this nmendment will not be agreed to. The question being taken, the amendment was rejected. The SPEAKER. The question ·is on -agreeing to the amend- ment. The Clerk road. the next committee amendment, as follows! The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. In line {) strike out the words "officials of the." Tlle SPEA.KER. The Clerk will report the next 8, entitled 'An act to punish the carrying or selling of deadly or these dangerous deadly weapons a way from men carrying them dangerous weapons within the District of Columbia, and for other pur-­ poses,' which is inconsistent with this act, and only so fnr as the same around, and make it so it will be enforceable, you must repeal may be inconsistent herewith, is hereby repealed." that provision. The only thing the court will instruct the jury1 .!\fr. RAKER. Mr. Speaker, the act referred to is section 855, is, "Did the defendant at a certain time have upon his person and this act is intended to take the place of it. This bill makes the particular kind of weapon named? And if so, you should a law which can be enforced, while section 855 contains this find him guilty." provision, to which I want to call the attention of the House: Mr. MANN.• Will the gentleman yield? SEC. 8ti5. Carrying weapons : Any person who shall within the Dis­ l\lr. RAKER. Certainly. trict of Columbia have concealed about his person any deadly or dan­ Mr. MANN. Does the gentleman doubt our power in one pro-4 gerous weapon, or who shall carry openly any such weapon, with intent vision of law to levy a penalty against the carrying of a weapon to unlawfully use the same. with intent to do a bodily injury, and in another provision o~ Now, this act takes out that provision; that is, the intent to the law levy a penalty against carrying concealed weapons with­ unlawfully use the same, and makes the bill now, if it becomes out regard to intent? a law, so that it will be effective; and when you find a man with l\1r. RAKER. I do. I think there is no question about that. a deadly weapon concealed on his person it then becomes ef­ Mr. MANN. The gentleman thinks that we have not the fective, and upon the trial you do not have to prove what his power? intent was. The mere fact of his having the weapon concealed 1\1r. RAKER. I think we have, beyond any question. upon his person is the crime itself. To repeal this provision Mr. :MANN. Here is the section cif the law that now exists, will give tllese gentlemen what they ask for, just what they which provides a penalty for carrying a weapon, either con4 desire; that is, to properly punish these men who are carrying cealed or openly, with intent to do bodily injury; and here is a around these various munitions of war. This amendment ought bill before us to prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons, not to be allowed, and the original bill, as presented, ought to regardless of intent. Does the gentleman claim that when con­ be so worded as to repeal section 855; otherwise you will have struing the provisions of this bill, if it becomes a law, the court on the statute book a provision that you must prove that there will have to read into it a provision levying a penalty against was an intent to use the instrument before you can convict the an entirely different offense-that of carrying a weapon, con~ man. cealed or openly, with intent to do bodily injury? 1 l\1r. COOPER. Will the gentleman yield? M1 • RAKER. Is it not a fact that this bill is intended to Mr. RAKER. I will yield to the distinguished gentleman provide against the carrying of these weapons named in the from Wisconsin. bill, known as deadly weapons? That act is intended to provide l\fr. COOPER. I have not seen a copy of the law of 1898, to for the same thing, only it has a further provision that you which the gentleman refers, but do I understand him to say must prove that the man llad it on his person, openly or con­ that if thls committee amendment be adopted a conviction under cealeu, witl1 an intent to unlawfully use it. · this bill, if enacted into law, would require the prosecution to .!\fr. :MANN. But the gentleman will notice that this bill re­ prove the intent? lates only to the carrying of concealed weapons, without regard Mr. RAKER. I think so, as it becomes a part and parcel of to intent. The existing law provides against the carrying of the law, and the two will be construed together. weapons· openly or concealed with intent to do a wrong. Mr. MANN. Oh, no. Mr. RAKER. Mr. Speaker, I will concede this to the gentle­ Mr. RAKER. But there is so much danger in the matter. man unquestionably, that under section 855, as to carrying Mr. MANN. If the gentleman will pardon me, I can see no weapons openly, that law will not be affected, but as to carry­ reason in the world why section 2 should not remain in the ing concealed weapons, you add a new law, of the kind and bill, although I have not heard any reason given for striking character of this bill, which will control, and the question of it out, but this would be a law· by itself and stand on its own intent will be there. feet in any event. It is possible that the other law might re­ Mr. NORRIS. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? main and give them an opportunity to proceed under one law or Mr. RAKER. Certainly. the other which might not be desirable. Mr. NORRIS. l\Ir. Speaker, I would like to suggest, in nddl· l\!r. RAKER. I do not know how they construe the statutes tion to what the gentleman from California [.!\fr. RA.KER] said in Washington that are passed by Congress, but with us if a by way of answer to the gentleman from Illinois [:Mr. MANN], valid act is found in the code of law and there is another pro­ that it strikes me that the court in the first instance, if we had vision of. law applicable to the same subject, if they are not in these two laws on the statute books, would try to find out what 4604 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE. APRIL 11, was the intention of Congress. There is no doubt in my mind Mr. RA.KER. I want to call the gentleman's attention to the but tbat we can do just what the gentleman from Illinois says. reason I made the objection and it is this: In the present bill l\Ir. RAKER. I concede that. before the House I take from its language that where n man Mr. NORRIS. The court in determining our intention would is charged under that act with having on his person or concealed take into consideration, to see whether we intended to repeal on his person one of these instruments, you would not have to one law or another, the peualities in both of these acts, and .charge that he had it there with an intent of unlawf-ully using it would then fincl that in the act which is the most seyere, as it, and upon the trial you would not undertake to proye that he far as the crime is concerned-that is, in the one where they had the intent unlawfully of using it, but the mere fact that pro>e intent, for instance, to commit a murder-the penalty pro­ within the District of Columbia lie bad that weapon concealed vided is much less than the penalty proYided in the other law, on his person he is guilty, and the jury should find him so which simply provides against the carrying of concealed weapons. under the instructions of the court. ' Mr. RAKER True. l\Ir. COOPER. Mr. Speaker-- Mr. NORRIS. And in doing that, it seems to me, the court 1\fr. RAKER. I yield to the gentleman from Wisconsin. would reach the conclusion that we could not have intended Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I would like to call the attention such a condition to exist. of the gentleman from Nebraska to what the law would be if Mr. RAKER. In other words, that Congress never intended we enacted this bill. - This is the existing Ia w : to put a man in State prison for years for merely having on Any person who shall within the District of Columbia have concealed about his person any deadly or dangerous weapon, or who shall carry ills person a knife with a blade 3 inches long concealed in his openly any such weapon, with intent to unlawfully use the same. pocket without proving that he had it there to use it for some unlawful purpose. So the law now upon the statute books provides that if a man Mr. NORRIS. The court, I think, would likely hold that carries a concealed weapon, a dangerous weapon, or he carries Congress never intended that simply because a man had a the same weapon openly with intent so and so, he shall be weapon concealed without any proof of intent, or perhaps with punished. Surely there is no question about that at all. The proof of no bad intent, that he might be sent to the penitentiary comma in there, the punctuation, makes the last clause, with in­ for a year or three years; whereas as a matter of fact, if he tent, to apply to both. There is no doubt about that; it is per­ was found with a re>ol>er on his person concealed and there fectly plain. Now, then, suppose that we omit all reference to wns proven an intent to use it to take human life, that he could the carrying of weapons openly, there being no reference to that be sent to jail for only 30 days. It seems to me that the propo­ in the pending bill, then if we enact this into law, what do we sitions are inconsistent. have? Mr. .MANN. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman from California We have this law upon the statute books, provided that if yield, that I may ask the gentleman from Nebraska a question? anyone carries a dangerous weapon concealed with intent un­ .Mr. RAKER. Certainly. lawfully to use the same he shall be punished, and we put on Mr. l\fAl\TN. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman from Nebraska and the books a law providing that if he carries these weapons con­ the gentleman from California, I think, has each distinguished cealed at all, without any regard to intent, he shall be pun­ the bench by being members thereof. I haYe never had that ished, and the amendment would strike out the repealing clause. good fortune · or bad fortune, whateyer it may be called. Then we have, necessarily, to repeal this, or, if it is to be re­ Mr. NORRIS. It is a bad fortune for the gentleman's people pealed by implication, the question is, Wba t would the courts do? that he has not. l\Ir. RAKErt. Is it not a fact that the best way to avoid the Mr. l\1ANN. Do I understand that the court, the judge on question of what the court might determine, if this bill should the bench, when he is construing a recent act of Congress or become a law, would be to strike out this, or, in other words, of the legislature which is clear and explicit as to what is the Yote against this proposed amendment and leave the bill · as it crime and what shall be the penalty, has to go back a good stands? many years to see what Congress thought 15 or 20 years ago? Mr. COOPER. The best way, in my judgment, would be, per­ Mr. NORRIS. Is the gentleman through with his question? haps, to strike that out and insert an amendment repealing so Mr. MANN. Yes. much of section 855 as relates to the carrying of concealed and dangerous weapons. Mr. NORRIS. I would say, in answer to that, that a court Mr. MANN. That is all this does, really. if it could, and the acts were consistent, would permit them l\Ir. COOPER. That is what ought to be done, so there will both to stand. be no necessity for any court to construe that at all, and that Mr. MANN. There is no conflict in these acts. would make it perfectly clear, and it is not clear, as has been l\fr. NORRIS. But the court would look behind and fintl that shown by the discussion here. where we provided for a heavy penalty. the crime was a minor one, and where we provided a light penalty the crime was l\1r. SIMS. Mr. Speaker, that section of the bill which is graYe, so the court would be inclined to say that Congress did stricken out by way of amendment was drawn and put in by not mean to do such a foolish thing, and therefore would hold the corporation counsel of this District, for the purpose of mak­ that both of the acts could not and would not stand. ing it clear that this act was to repeal so much of the act re­ ferred tb as might be in conflict with this. l\:fr. 1\1.ANN. Whether both would stand is another question; Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I move as a substitute· for the the last one would stnnd. committee amendment to strike out section 2 of the bill and l\lr. NORRIS. Well, there is no doubt about it. insert: 1\1r. l\L\.NN. Does the gentlemnn from Nebraska think that So much of section 8G5 of the act approved May 11, 1898, entitled in a case like this that the court, taking the recent act of " Code of Law for the District of Columbia" us relates to the carrying Congress, would read into that act provisions whlch were in a of concealed or dangerous weapons in the District of Columbia is hereby former act of Congress that entirely changed the scope of the repealed. recent act? · The SPEAKER. The Chair would like to inquire of the gen- . l\Ir. NORRIS. I do not say that. I say I believe, in answer tleman from Wisconsin if be means his amendment to take the to the gentleman's suggestion, that both of these acts will stand place of the motion to strike out and insert? That is practically and both remain in force; that the court would be apt to hold, what this committee amendment is, and the part they propose by the passage of this act, that we repealed the other one, that to insert embraces two separate, substantive propositions. we provided for a lighter punishment for a heavier offense. l\Ir. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I call the attention of the Speaker l\Ir. MANN. I think myself that it does not make any differ­ to the fact that the part that is to be inserted does not in nny ence whether this act is repealed specifically or not; that to the way relate to section 2, and it would not have been germane to extent we change the law the original act is repealed. offer an amendment to strike out section 2 and insert these pro­ l\Ir. NORRIS. Well, I should think so. visions. They are inserted as additional paragraphs to section l\1r. :MANN. I do not care whether it is repealed by special 1. and intended so by the committee, and strike out section 2. pro\·ision or not. They ought to have been printed ahead of section 2. :\fr. NORRIS. Or by implication. 'l'he SPEAKER. Of course that is true. 'l'he Chair was l\fr. RAKER. Will tlie gentleman permit me to ask him a going to call attention to that. What the Chair was trying to question? Is it not a fact that it is a rare thing to find in get at was, Is the amendment of the gentleman from Wisconsin any State an act where the mere fact of having one of these intended to take the place of it? weapons on their person is a crime, and can the gentleman l\Ir. MANN. Of section 2, stricken out. point out any particular State where such a statute is now in The SPEAKER. The Chair inquires of the gentleman. from force? · Wisconsin if the amendment which he bas offered is to strike 1\1r . .MANN. I will say to the gentleman frankly I suppose out section 2 and insert the matter proposed by him? if there is any Member of this House who is not familiar with l\Ir. COOPER. Yes, sir. the criminal laws of the country or the statutes I am that Mr. l\IANN. Will the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Member. COOPER] yield? 1912. OONGRESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE. 4605

Mr. COOPER. Yes. The Clerk rend as fol1ows : l\Ir. M.AJ."'\'N . Is not the provision in section 2, "that so much So much of any act as empowers anybody or any court to authorize of tlie act referred to which is inconsistent with this act, and anyoue to carry a coucealed deadly weapon in the Distl'ict of Columbia no far ns the same mny be inconsistent herewith," precisely the is hereby repealed. oame thing as the gentleman's amendment? The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend- l\Ir. RAKER. I do not think there· is any question about it. ment. Tbat is what the gentleman means. 'l'he question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. Mr. COOPEH. I propose simply by my amendment to make 'I'be SPEAKER. The qerk will read the next amendment. ft so vlain that there would be no necessity for any future 'l'he Clerk read as follows : tliscussion such as has taken place here on the floor. Si.c. 2. That this act shall take effect and be in force from and after l\Ir. l\fANN. The discussion was partly in reference to other its passage. Jnntters. I agree

The Clerk rend as follows: MESSAGE FROM TIIE SENATE • Ii . And it shall be the duty of the police of the District of Columbia to search every traveler entering the District and to confiscate any con­ A message from the Senate, by Mr. Crockett, one of its clerks, cealed weapon found in the possession of such traveler before allowing announced that the Senate had passecl without amendment bill him to cross the line_ - of the following title : [La ugllter.] H. R. 20190. A.n act to extend the time for the construction The SPEAKER. The question is on the amendment of the of a dam across Rock llivcr, Ill. gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MADDEN] to the amendment of the The message also announced that the Senate had passed the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. CULLOP] . following resolutions : Ur. l\IANN. To what is that amendment offered? Resolved, That the Secretary be directed to furnish to the House of Representatives, in compliance with its request, a duplicate cngrosse-J 1\fr. :MADDEN. It is an amendment to the amendment of the copy of the bill ( S. 2904) to confer upon the Commissioners of the gentleman from Indiana [l\ir. CULLOP] . District of Columbia authority to regulate the operation and equipment _ Tlle SPEAICER. If tllere be no objection, the Clerk will of the vehicles of the Metropolitan Coach Co. again report the amendment. Also: The amenclment was again read. Resolved, That the Secretary be directed to furnish to the House of The question being taken, the amendment to the amendment Representatives. in compliance with its request, duplicate engrossed copies of the bills ( S. 4314 and S. 4G23) granting pensions and increase was agreed to. of pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War rtnd certain The SPEAKER. The question is on tlle amendment of the Widows and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors. gentleman from Indiana [Mr. CULLOP] as amended.. SPENCER ROBERTS. The question being taken, the amendment as amended was re­ l\Ir. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, in order to :woicl jected. going into Committee of the Whole twice I ask unanimous Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I mo-ve to reconsider the vote by consent that the bill (H. R. 12371) for the relief of Spencer wllich the amendment at the top of page 3 was disagreed to. Uoberts be considered in the House as in Committee of the The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment. Whole. The Clerk read as follows: The SPEAKER The gentleman from Kentucky asks unani­ Pnge 3, insert as lines 1, 2, and 3 the following : " So much of any act as empowers anybody or any court to authorize mous consent that the bill H . R. 12371 be considered in the anyone to carry a concealed deadly weapon in the District of Columbia House as in Committee of the Whole. Is there objection? is hereby repealed." There was no objection. Ur. MANN. I\fr. Speaker, tllis amendment recommended by The Clerk read the bill, as follows : ·the committee, which was disagreed to a little while ago, pro­ A bill (H. R. 12371) for the relief of Spencer Roberts, a member of the poses to repeal the law which empowers the courts to authorize Metropolitan police force of the District of Columbia. any person to carry a concealed deadly weapon. I would like Be it enacted eta., Thnt the Commissioners of the District of Co­ lumbia are hereby authorized and empowered to appoint and promote to inquire of the gentleman who introduced the bill whether, Spencer Roberts, now a member of the Metropolitan police force of said under the form of the bill as it now stands, it would be possible District, in class 1, to any vacancy that may exist in class 3 of said for a regular night watchman to carry a .pistol or other weapon l\Ietropolltan police force. for his protection or for the pursuit of a c1iminal? It seems The following committee amendments were read : to rue that there ought to be some provision inserted in the bill Amend, page 1, line 4, by striking out the word "empowered," and which would authorize a regular watchman to have some kind inserting in lieu there of the word " directed." Amend, pai;e 1, lint' 4, by striking out after the word " to " the of a weapon. words "appoint and." . Mr. SBIS. The exemptions in the bHl as introduced are the in 1i~~n&eP::;fe t~ell:~r~s q;vt~~rlj~f .. out the word "any" and inserting exact exemptions contained in the District Code. I neither Amend, pngc 1, line G, by striking out the word "exist" and insert­ added to nor took a way any exemptions. I simply changed the ing in lieu thereof the word " occur." punishment. The Code of the District of Columbia as it now Mr. JOlli~SON of Kentucky. l\fr. Speaker, the remainder of exists contains all the exemptions from liability which were my time I yield to the gentleman from llhocle Island. contained in my bill as I originally introduced it. I did not feel Mr. MANN. There ~s no time ; we are in the House as in like taking any responsibility of adding to or taking away from Committee of the Whole. Can the gentleman from Kentucky the exemptions. In other words, if it is unlawful now for a tell us whether the District Commissioners have any opposition night watchman to be armed, it will be unlawful with this bill to the passage of this bill? enacted into law. If it is lawful now, it will be lawful under Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. They have. the bill if it is passed without amendment in that regard. Mr. MANN. Are they opposed to the bill? The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN] Mr. O'SHAU~"ESSY . They are opposed to the bill. Mr. mo>es to reconsider the vote by which that amendment was re­ Speaker-- jected. · The SPEAKER Tlle gentleman from Rhode Island is recog­ The question being taken, the motion to reconsider was nized for five minutes. agreed to. Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. Mr. Speaker, this bill is for the relief of The SPEAKER. The Clerk w·m report the amendment. a member of the police force of the District of Columbia who The Clerk read as follows: was unjustly discharged in 1D05, it being then alleged that ho Amencl by inserting as lines 1, 2, and 3, on page 3, the words : "So much of any act as empowers anybody or any court to authorize made a false report to his superior officer, the sub.stance of anyone to carry a concealed deadly weapon in the District of Columbia which was that he had been assaulted while on duty on his beat is hereby repealed." by two colored men and robbed of his revolver, and that his The question being taken, the amendment was agreed to. hut, gloves, and overcoat were badly slashed. The bill as amended was ordered to be engrossed and read a 'l'hese matters· came up for consideration before the police third time, and was accordingly read the third time and passed. trial board, and he was reinstated in 190!), it being found that Mr. MANN. I move to amend the title by striking out of the he told the truth and had been unjustly dischargecl. He has first line the words "openly or." been reinstated by the commissioners, but he has lost his right The SPEAKER. -The Clerk will report the amendment. to the grade in which he would now be if he had never be2n The Clerk read as follows : unjustly discharged. This bill merely restores him to the right Amend the title by striking out the words " openly or." tllat he would have had if he had not been unjustly discharged. The amendment to the title was agreed to. Mr. MANN. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. l\-IAJ\TN. The title ought to be further amended by strik­ l\Ir. O'SIIAUNESSY. I will. ing out the words " or dirk knife " and inserting in place thereof Mr. .MANN. Does the gentleman think it is good policy for the words " clasp knife, razor." the Congress to require the commissioners or the superintenuent The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment. of police to appoint or promote a. police officer; does he tllink The Clerk read as follows : that the legislative body should undertake to usurp the func­ Strike out of the title the words "or dirk knife·~ and insert the words tions of the administrative body and, in addition, to give to the " clasp knife, razor." commissioners the power to appoint and require them to ap­ The amendment was agreed to. point some one? Mr. RAKER. Will the gentleman from Illinois permit a Mr. O'SHA.UNESSY. I do, undoubtedly, because this man question? Would it not be better to amend the title by inserting would have been entitled to this position if he had not been the words " upon or," before the word " about" ? The title now unjustly discharged. reads "concealed about the person." - Mr. MANN. I am sorry that I yielded to tlie request for the Mr. · l\f.A.NN. Personally, I think the word "about " covers bill to be considered in the House as in Committee of the Whole. · both upon and about. Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. If the man has been unjustly removed, On motion of l\Ir. SIMS, a motion to reconsider the vote by he should be restored and have every right and privilege as if which tlle bill was passed was laid on the table. he had not been discharged. \ 1912. OON0RESSIONAL RECORD-. HOU.SE. 4607 \I ' I I l\Ir. i\IANN. That goes without saying; that is laying down Mr. MADDEN. Does the gentleman think it would be wirn an nxiomatic truth. Bn: is the opinion of Congress that :i mun for the legislati>e brnnch .of the Government to sny to the hns been unjustly rcmoYed to be imposed UilOn the administra­ executi>e branch of the Go>ernment, "You must conduct yo~r - tiYe officers who nre in superior control of the man? We never affairs along certain lines, and if you do not clo that we will h:i rn done it in nuy other case. We frequently pass bills giving enact Jaws that will direct you to e ought to commissioners to make the appointment. The committee pro­ be given this man. poses to amend it by directing them to make the promotion or Mr. MADDEN. Will the gentleman tell the Ilouse wha.t appointment-a power over which the legislative part of the treatment this man has had to which he objects? He has not Go>ernment lms no control. told the House anything at all about the unjust treatment the It is the duty of the Executive or administration to make man has received. The House is not in possession of any facts appointments. We may vary the law by giving them authority to justify it in acting upon the bill that is presented by this to make appointments where we have a police law, but by what committee. right clo we undertake to sny that a particular man shall be l\fr. O'SHAUNESSY. In lDOr> he found himself dismissed appointed to a particular i1lace? I hn>e always resisted the from the service, or was forced to· resign, which was the equiva­ executi>e encroachment upon the legislative powers, and I sha11 lent of being dismissed, by virtue of the fact that a false con­ resist the encroachment of the legislative upon the administra­ clusion had been arrived at by those who lieard bis case. He Urn power. was without pay for four years. He is not looking for nny Mr. O'SHAU:NESSY. We want to make sure of the restitution back I?ay. If full justice were done this man, he would get of this man to his rights. back pay from the time he was forced to resign until he wns 1\fr. MANN. The amendment that is pending is to strike out reins ta tecl. the word " empowered " nnd insert the word " directed." The 1\Ir. MADDEN. What evidence Irn.s the gentleman to prove bill, as introduced, rends: that the man was unjustly treated? That the Commissioners of the District of Columbia are hereby au­ The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Rhode thorized and empowered to appoint and promote Spencer Iloberts. Island has again expired. I do not know what tlle circumstances of the case are. I l\Ir. O'SHAUNESSY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent read the report. The report indicates that this man has been that I may proceed for five minutes more. unfairly treated, not by reasqn of the fault of anyone in the The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Rhode Isla.nd asks department. The circumstances are not set out very fully. unanimous consent that he may proceed for five minutes. Is Charged once with Eome offense, he was acquitteu, but was there objection? afterwards dismissed. If the superintendent of police and the There was no objection. District Commissioners, who were charged with the control of l\fr. O'SHAUNESSY. Mr. Speaker, anticipating that some the police force, ancl the whole force, being charged with the questions of this character might be asked, I suggested to the administration of the police laws of the District, think that this attorney for 1\Ir. Roberts that he procure a letter from the man ought to be appointed or promoted, authority conferred gentleman who was one of the commissioners at the time this upon them is enough. trouble occurred, and I am going to read that letter: Mr. MADDEN. H:we they not that power now? Trrn W ASIIDe minutes. was acquitted of that charge by the police trial board. but there was The SPEAKER The gentleman from Rhode Island asks left great doubt as to the correctness of the charge until long after bis unanimous consent to proceed for five minutes. Is there objec­ enforced resignation, when the whole matter was fully cleared up and tion? Ur. Roberts exonerated by the Board of Commissioners of the District of Columbia, and by that board's direction reappointed on the force. There was no objection. The charge against him of having purchased some liquor while on 1\:fr. O'SHAUNESSY. Mr. Speaker, I have no reason to be­ duty, which liquor was not used by blm but taken to his family, was a lieve that the commissioners would do this net of justice. I minor matter, and he would never have lieen remo>ed or forced to re­ sign on that account, the real cause being, us stated, the alleged false have no reason, perhaps, to know that they would not do it. report. I have not communicated with them. I do not know what their I think the passage of the bill would be a simple act of justice to Mr. thoughts or intentions arc in the premises, but in order that Roberts. all doubt may be dissipated, and in order that there mny be Very truly, yours, HE:"RY L. WEST. absolute relief nfforded this man, I do not believe that we Mr. JACKSON. :Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman permit a should stand on any technicality just now, but that we should question? give him his rights as long as we have the power to do it. Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. I will. Mr. MADDEN. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? Mr. JACKSON. Was that letter which the gentleman has l\1r. O'SHAUNESSY. Yes. just read written before or after the amendment proposed by Mr. MADDEN. Does the gentleman think that the Members the committee? of Congrerrs are in a position to know just exactly what the 1\Ir. O'SIL\.UNESSY. The letter is dated February 16, rn12. Commissioners of the District should do in the matter of Mr. JACKSON. Well, was that before the committee pro­ disciplining members of the police force? posed to strike out the word " emvo\Yered" and write in tlie .Mr. O'SU:A.UNESSY. But he is not under discipline. word " directecl "? J f 4608 CONG RESS I ONA L REOOR D-HOUSE-. APRIL 11, i I Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. It wns. Mr. LOBECK. Mr. Speaker, this police officer, l\Ir. Roberts, Mr. JACKSON. I understood the gentleman to say, or some made a report on n certain occasion, as I recall it in the year - one to say, that this bill had been drawn by another than the 1005, that he had been beaten by sorue colored men, his cloth­ committee. ing destroyed, nnd his revolver taken. His report was not ~fr. O'SHAUNESSY. The bill was drawn by a Member not .believed and he was found guilty of misrepresentation, as I • of the committee. understand it, by the police trial board hnd he was obliged to l\fr. JACKSON: One other question I would like to ask the resign, preferring to resign rather than be dismissed from the gentleman. Would this man hnve been entitled to this appoint­ service. ment-that is, woulcl it have been compulsory under the law for A. year or more-afterwards one of the colored men, William this man to ha >e been in the first grade now bad he not been Wooden, alias Hog Eye, whom Officer Roberts had described removed? ·· and given the name of as one of the two men that had as­ Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. I belie--ve so. saulted and robbed him, was arrested and found to haye in Mr. JACKSON. The commissioners bad no discretion bis possession the revol\er taken from Roberts. This man' whether he recei\ed this appointment or not if he bad served pleaded guilty, and confessed to the assault and robbery jnst that long. In other '\"\"Orcls, does this grade depend entirely upon as Officer Roberts had reported, and was sentenced to impris­ length of service? onment, and Officer Roberts was later reinstated and has made Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. Length of senice and faithful perform- good. ance of duty. , l\Ir. WILLIS. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. JACKSON. Well, have the commissioners any discretion Mr. LOBECK. Yes. as to the character of service that entitles one to promotion? Ur. WILLIS. I am anxious for some one to give a reason 1\lr. O'SHAUNESSY. Without question they have. why the commissioners would not do justice to this mun if 1\lr. JACKSON. They have? - they were empowered to do so. Why is it not u sufficient com­ .Mr. O'SIIAUNESSY. Without a question. pliance if we give them the power to reinstate the officer? l\Ir. JACKSO.J.r. Then if the bill is passecl in its present form, Why must we go ahead and sny here that he must be rein~ as bas been suggested here, it will be practically Congress stated regarilless of the facts and the judgment of the commis- selecting this man to be a member of tlw first grade. sioners? , l\fr. O'SH.AUNESSY. Because all the time he has clone duty l\lr. LOBECK. Just the same as when the· executive of a be has 11erformed his duty faithfully, and it is only to lie pre­ business corporation, as referred to by the gentleman from Illi­ sumed he woul<.l have performed his duty just as faithfully all nois [Mr. l\IADDEN], is directed by the board of directors, and the while had he not been removed. Now, I want to say to the must do as directed. The District Commissioners will not give gentleman, think of the wages this man has lost, and then ask this rnnn the proper rank that he is fairly entitled to when a yourself if·we are cloing ample justice in merely restoring him vacancy occurs, for some reason unknown and unexplainable. to the grade which he would occupy. Mr. WILLIS. Will the gentleman yield? l\Ir. JACKSON. Is there any proposition to pay wages? The SPEAKER Does the gentleman from Nebraska [Mr, That is another matter; but the question I was caUing to the LonEcK] yield to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. WILLIS] . gentleman's attention is, Ar~ not we substituting the Congress 1\fr. LOBECK. Certainly. to do the very thing these commissioners are supposed to do? l\fr. WILLIS. That is the precise point on which I want to Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. I cnn not agree with the gentleman on get information. How docs he know they will not do the offi­ that proposition; I do not think so. cer justice? How does he fincl it out? The gentleman from Mr. l\fADDEN. Mr. Speaker, I would be the last man on the Rhode Island [Mr. O'SIIAUNESSY] also stated that. How do floor of this House to do an injustice to any man who may be you know it? in any kind of employment, but I do not beliern that this House Mr. LOBECK. We were informed to that effect. has sufficient information upon which to base action asking the Mr. WILLIS. How did you get the information? Commissioners of the District of Columbia to place this man in l\Ir. LOBECK. There have been letters on file to that effect. a given grade. I believe if we give the commissioners the power lUr. WILLIS. Well, they ought to be in the report. The to place him in a grade that we ha·rn done enn·ything we ought House is called upon to act here on information that the gentle­ to do. Suppose we directed them to do it. They will be obliged man says is contained in letters. • to do so. If we give them the power, then it is optional with 1\lr. LOBECK. I did not make the report; but this is simple them whether they shall do it or not; and I have faith in the justice to a man who has performed faithful service. There is integrity of the commissioners sufficient to warrant me in be­ no question as to his fidelity in the work done in this city. He lieving that if this man is entitled to lJe promoted, if the com­ is an honest, sober, and efficient officer, and I believe it is missioners have the power, be will be promoted. No act of within the power of Members of this House to do simple justice Congress could be more destructirn of discipline than the one to a man who hns been faithful if the District Commissioners sought by this bill. There· is no business enterprise anywhere will not do so. on the face of the civilized globe that could be successfully Mr. KONOP. Did the District Commissioners inform the conducted under such a plan as this. The executive authority committee that they were opposed to this measure? "in any business enterprise must have discretionary power to Mr. LOBECK. This is information that is one or more regulate the discipline of that enterprise or it will fail. years old. The Government of the United States, or the District of Co­ Mr. KONOP. Did they inform the committee by communi- lumbia, is only a business institution after all in which every cation? citizen of the Janel is a stockholder, and it becomes the duty Mr. LOBECK. I think by communication. of the stockholcler to do everything within his power to sustain Mr. KONOP. What reason did they give? the executive officers chosen in the proper performance of their Mr. LOBECK. The same reason that the gentleman from duty; and no policeman, no matter how distinguished the serv­ Illinois [Mr. 1\IANN] gave, namely, that it might have an effect ice he may have rendercu, should find himself in a position of on the efficiency of the service. saying to the executive authority over him thnt he can get l\Ir. GOOD. Mr. Spcaker-- what he wants regnrd1ess of what the disposition of the execut. .The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Iowa [Mr. Goon J is tiYe officer may be. This is a bad precedent which ought not to recognized. lJe established. If this man has had any injustice done him I Mr. GOOD. 1\Ir. Speaker, I can hardly understand the gcn­ belie\e it ought to be rectified, and I lJelleve that when we give ero8ity of the District Committee. This bill shows on its fnce the power to the commissioners to reinstate him that we have that it was introduced by request. The man who requested its rectified that injustice. Ah, but the gentleman from Rhode introdnction must have been the attorney for Spencer Hoberts, Island statee we to assume that the Commissioners of the unworthy of credence. According to the testimony, .l\1r. Roberts has by no means a bad District m:e not just ns much disposed to do justice in this case r ecord, and he has been a good, efficient policeman. The worst that as is the membership of this House? It is their business to can be said against him is that he has been at times a little over­ know about things of tllis sort. The l\fembers of this House do zealous in the performance of bis duties. He was convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer on December 22, 1904, and fined $25 and warned, not know the details of tllis case. The members of the com­ and that was the only conviction standing against him at the time he mittee ancecl beyond all previous records. In ; Columbia. Holland prices have been steadily rising since 1896. An official J Now, I submit, Mr. Spcnkcr, that the sensible thing to do in agricultural report covering important articles, such as heef, .; this case is to proceed in the proper way. I do not want to do pork. eggs, butter, ham, wheat, and beet sugar shows that the ~ anything but justice. It is not necessary to argue with me increase has ranged from 16 to 5G per cent 'in . the 12 yearsi that this man is an excellent policeman. I have no question following 1898. These products had also risen in price in 1011'· about that. I feel sure he is. The point I make is that you are as compared with 1910, and -vegetables were also higher. In ,! not proceeding now in the proper way. brief, every country in the world is struggling with the problem Mr. O'SHAU:NESSY. I want to say, l\Ir. Speaker, that we of higher cost of living. · ran save further discussion by accepting the bill in its original If the trouble is universal the cause must be universal. ihape. - As money becomes more and more plentiful its purchasing 4 .Mr. WILLIS. Then I have nothing more to say. i am per­ power decreases. In the olden clays in this country it required ~ · fectly satisfied. a basketful of Continental currency to purchase a barrel of~· The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has expired. flour, and when the printing presses of the Confederate States i Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. l\Ir. Speaker, I ask unani­ were turning out reams of paper money it cost a thousand'. mous consent to insert some remarks in the RECORD. dollars to buy a bushel of potatoes. . Gold is now the basis 'i The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New Jersey [Mr. foundation of money, and there is more gold in the world to- , G.A.RDNEB] asks unanimous consent to print some remarks in the day than ever before. RECORD. On this bill? . Mr. G.ARDNER of New ;Jersey. No. · We are now p1·oducing about $500,000,000 annually, whereas The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 20 years ago the a-verage yearly output was only $100,000,000. Mr. AKIN of New York. Reserving the right to object I . In 25 years the average annual production has been quintupled• should like to ask the gentleman if he has any letters that w~re and in 10 years the increase has doubled. This enormous addi· · purloined from my oflice and is going to insert them in the tion to the basic money of the world has been a prime factor in , UECORD? I notice that there has been printed in the RECORD a lifting prices of commodities from their former level. We'1 letter that it is claimed was sent to me. If he will assure me passed through the same experience in this country in 1850, · tllat there is nothing that I have anything to do with I will following the sudden and spectacular discovery of gold in Cali­ withdraw my objection. ' fornia. Then, as now, prices soared, and the effect was felt ; Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. I give the gentleman that throughout the world. The contribution of California to the . world's gold supply was, however, insignificant as compared i assurance~ - The SPEAKER. Is there objection 7 with the amount which is now being extracted from the mines There was no objection. of South Africa, Australia, and the United States, including/ 1\lr. GARDNER of New Jersey. :M:r. Speaker, the Republican Alaska. There is no immediate likelihood of a diminution in Party is in no wise responsible for the high cost of living, ex­ the supply. cept as it is responsible for better living. While the increase in the supply of gold is unquestionably, More than this, the voter who would endeavor to escape the the principal factor in the situation, there arc other causes burden of this high cost by voting for Democratic candidates which must be considered. Not one of them, however, is di· will not only fail to accomplish his desired relief, but he will rectly or indirectly traceable to Republican legislation or poli- · find that he has invited a condition of universal distress. cics and could not be affected by a change of administration. Neither Republican laws nor Republican policies have occy.­ First, the highly complex civilization which we ha-ve de­ sioned the high prices which prevail, except as they have caused veloped in this country compels a larger degree of expense in unexampled prosperity, which enables the burden to be more our daily existence. easily borne, while if the Democratic Party should come into Humanity rightly demands a constantly improving environ­ power there will be a repetition of the hard ti.mes in 1893, when ment. The homes in which our people live are properly equipped the workmen of the country made a sorrowful procession to the with conveniences unknown to our forefathers. The day of 1 soup houses. the tallow candle has passed. The necessities of to-day were No one questions the fact that during the past 20 years there unattainable luxuries two generations. ago. Universal educ:i­ has been a steady rise in the cost of the necessaries of life. tion has stimulated higher ideals of living, and these, while l\lcn and women who have hitherto lived in comparative ease tending toward the improvement of the race, are not to be en­ and comfort-who have, at least, from fixed incomes been able joyed without consequent additional expenditure. The single to meet their expenses without incurring debt-now find that item of the telephone is an illustration. We arc spending they must exercise the strictest economy if they are to live millions upon millions of dollars each year for the use and en­ within their income. Those whose incomes from their occupa­ joyment of an invention which has become necessary to the tions ha>e not increased work harder and enjoy less. The prob­ conduct of our daily life. The automobile, while still a luxury lem of making both ends meet carries with it much anxiety. to many, has also demonstrated its usefulness as a rapid means In a country like the United States, in which the political of locomotion and is deemed a requisite to the successful instinct is highly de>eloped, there is a natural tendency to give transaction of business. Innumerable instances of similar to everything, from,the most commonplace municipal ordinance character might be cited as indicating drains upon the indi­ to the ratification of a treaty or a decision of the Supreme Court vidual purse which did not present themselves in former years. of the United States, a political status. There exists therefore Second, the produetion of foodstuffs has not kept pace in this in the minds of many a belief that a political orga~ation i~ country with the growth of population. responsible for unsntisfactory and undesirable conditions, even There is, unfortunately, a trend. away from the farm to the though these conditions bear no relation either to politics or to urban centers. · The statistics of the census are convincing upon ~my system o~ government. The political organization in power this point. Between 1880 and 1890 the increase in the number 1s the Repubhcan Party, and many well-meaning people believe of persons engaged in agricultural pursuits was only 50 per that somehow it is responsible for their present situation. cent, while in the same period the increase in the number en­ Nothing could be further from the trnth. Not only this, gaged in manufacturing industries was 100 per cent. The bat the election of a Democratic administration would impose figures of the census also show that between moo and 1910 upon the country a period of absolute distress. there was a drift of 11.G per cent of the population toward the If the increase in the cost of living was confined to the nonproducing food centers. The result of this movement United States, there might be some foundation for the assertion toward the cities is shown in the decrease in the acreage of that it is due to the long-continued control of national affairs cereals harvested and in the quantity of cereals produced in the . by the Republican Party. United States. The increase in the acreage of cereals harvested On the contrary, the high cost of living is not experienced between 1900 and 1910 was only 3 per cent, while during the alone in this country. It is a world-wide problem. The re­ same period the increase in population was 18 per cent. ports from consular officers, obtained by direction of President If we do not produce food in a ratio commensurate with the Taft, and by him transmitted to Congress, demonstrate this growth of population, the law of supply and demand will orr fact. Prices have risen even in free - t~ade coUn.tries. Even in era te to raise the price of foodstuffs. I 1912 ~ . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 4611 \ I People must cat to live. Food is a necessity, and if the sup­ a common prosperity, and its broad-minded leaders are working \ ply becomes less acleqnnte, which is the present fact, the avail­ in this direction. able supply must increase in value. Out of this situation, how­ Overcapitalization may have been a contributing factor to ever, the farmer emerges witll much profit. The prosperity of the high cost of living, inasmuch as money which has been re­ the agriculturists in a large pnrt of our country has never been quired to pay interest and dividends upon inflated values might so great as e through afforded them, through the institution of the free rural delivery a radical assault upon the protective system which has given of I1'ail, exceptional adTantnges for prompt communication in this country its unexampled prosperity. matters of business und in the receipt of daily and weekly E>eryone must recall with serious misgiving the period when literature. In adclilion to this, the banking facilities in agri­ the Democratic Party was last given opportunity to revise the cultural sections have greatly improved, while the efforts which tariff-a period accompanied by universal business depression are JJeing made in various localities ~ through agricultural col­ and much individual distress. As compared with those days leges and experiment stations~ developed under the broad and of commercial despair, the burden of the increased cost of liv­ liber ~! policies of Republican administration, are producing ex­ ing seems light, indeed. The memory of that sorrowful time cellent results. The Republican Party is making every effort has not yet been effaced. The American people will certainly to meet the problem of the decrease in the food-producing class not jeopardize their present prosperity by in>iting n rerretition by making wnste ground productive, by teaching the farmer of 1893. The enactment of Democratic free-trade laws, such how to get the largest results out of the earth with the least as have originated in the House of Representatives, would de­ expenditure of time and labor, by dignifying the profession of stroy American industry without solving the high-cost problem. the agriculturist, and demonstrating in every way its apprecia­ What would be thought of a physician who, instead of curing tion of his work. The intelligent, scientific farmer is to-day his patient's malady. put the unfortunate man to death? the bulwark upon which we, as a Nation, rest, and to him, more The Republican Party, now in control of national affairs, has than to anyone el8e, must we look for relief from the condition from its very inception demonstrated its interest in and sym­ which a decreasing food supply has created. pathy for the wage earner. It came into being as the friend The gold supply can not be diminished by legislation. Party of oppressed humanity and it has been always foremost in all platforms can not increase the number of food producers. The efforts to secure impro>ed conditions for the American people. increased cost of the distribution of commodities, which is an­ It is cloing everything in its power to solve the present problem, other factor in the high cost of living, is beyond congressional even though it recognizes that the conditions which exist are enactment or political policy. in no sense the result of its legislative or political policies. In so far as tllis important matter can be regarded as within It will continue in the future to devote its best endea>ors to Government control the effort of the Republican administration relieving the people of the burden of the high cost of living. has been steadily exercised in the direction of securing a reduc­ These efforts will be made, however, along rational and safe tion of this cost. The Interstate Commerce Commission, afte:r lines. They will not menace the business stability of the coun­ a patient, careful, and impartial inquiry, has undertnken to try, as would be the case if a Democratic administration should place freight rates upon an equitable basis, and is now endeavor­ come into power, but, on the contrary, will make more certain ing to obtain fair treatment for the public in the matter of ex­ our splendid progress as a Nation and the ·prosperity and happi­ press charges. Neither the Interstate Commerce Commission ness of each individual citizen. nor any other governmental agency can, however, deal with the The Republican Party is not only not responsible for the high problem which confronts the retailer who, in order to meet cost of living, but it is the only party which can solve the prob­ compet!tion and retain trade, is compelled to distribute small lem without inviting national disaster. packages over a large nrea. Thts necessitates the maintenance The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the first committee of an expensive and extencled system, and the cost is naturally amendment. borne in some degree by the consumer. In some of the larger The Clerk read as follows : cities the cost of cleli yery has become enormous and is a factor In line 4 strike out tbe word " empowered " and insert in lieu in the high cost of living which can not be ignored. there-Of the word " directed." T·he extent to which the middleman figures in the commercial Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. That amendment is withdrawn. transactions of the present clay is another vital matter. He Mr. WILLIS. The gentleman wants this amendment >oted can not be eliminated. by a change of administration. His exist­ down. ence is not due either to Republican legislation or Ilepublican Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. I will withdraw it. policies. · The SPEAKIDl. The gentleman can not withdraw it. It is It is important to remember that the protest against high a CO:r.!mittee amendment. prices is confined almost entirely to foo.dstuffs. There has not The question being taken, the amendment was rejected. been an excessive increase in the cost of manufacturecl articles. The SPEAKER The Clerk will report the next amendment. This demonstrates that the tariff which protects the manufac­ The Clerk read as follows: turer from foreign competition is not the cause of the increased In line 4 strike out the words "appoint and." cost of living. In fact, the workingman has benefited by an in­ crease in wnges to help him meet the higher cost of living, al­ l\Ir. MANN. 1\Ir. Speaker, I am very glacl that the gentleman though this ratio has not, in all cases, been proportionate to the has consented to the voting clown of the prececling amendment, heavy burden laicl upon him. Like an cnclless chain, however, because it raised one of the most interesting questions that has the increased cost of living leads to higher wages, and these, in come before the House. Here was a proposition in the bill turn, mean higher prices for the product of the workman. Ap­ originally authorizing the Commissioners to appoint and pro­ preciating this serious phase of tlle problem, President Taft, mote Spencer Iloberts. Then, it was changed to a proposition with syinpathetic statesmanship, has recommended the creation to direct the Commissioners to promote Spencer Roberts. of an industrial commission, which will mal\:e a thorough in­ The Constitution of the United ~tates, fixing the powers of vestigation into the whole matter. If, for instance, a manufac­ the President, says in cohnection with the appointment of ·rnri- turing corporation which raises the wages of its employees re­ ous officials : · imbnrses itself for this additional outlay by raising the price But the Congress may by Law vest the .Appointment of such inferior of its product, there should be some authority to discover Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of whether or not it is already· enjoying inordinate profits and Law, or in the Heads of Departments. , whether its business relations are such as to insure it an illegal That has been construed to give Congress the authority to monopoly of that product. The Republican Party would have permit the District Commissioners or other officials to make both employer and employee mutually and equitably share in appointments. 4612 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. APRIL_ 11, I In this case the appointment has been made; but a proposi­ Mr. GARR ETT. That is due, is it not, to the legislative I tion was made directing the commissioners to transfer the enactment which gives the President the power to appoint? i appointee from one class to another class. 1\fr. MANN. Without legislative enactment the President only i We frequently pass laws dividing employees into certain has the power of appointment to any office under the Govern­ classes and automatically providing for their promotion. As a ment of the United States. legislative power, that power is not questioned; but whether we Mr. GARRETT. Except those provided by the Constitution. have the power under the Constitution, an employee having Mr. l\fANN. He has the power to appoint them, all executive already been appointed to an office, to direct the Executive to and judicial offices. Of course, he does not have the power yet change the appointment and to put the appointee into a differ­ to appoint 1\Iembers of Congress, although some Executives ent office or a different class of the same kind of office is a have sought to exercise it indirectly. Yery interesting question, which I did not wish to have raised l\fr. GARRETT. The indications ar e that it may be exercised by this bill. in some States in a short time. I have understood that the pro­ Mr. GARRETT. Does the gentleman think that could arise vision of the Constitution gives power to Congress to absolutely with respect to an officer of the District of Columbia. wipe out the District government, change it entirely. Mr. 1\IANN. Oh, yes. Officers of the District of Columbia Mr. MANN. Undoubtedly. are officers of the United States. We create the government of Mr. GARRETT. And wipe out every officer in it. the Dish·ict of Columbia. We provide its officers, and while Mr. MANN. Undoubtedly we have the power. We can wipe they- are officers of the District of Columbia as Territorial them all out. officers are officers of the Territory, still they are officers of the Mr. GARRETT. If we can wipe them all out, why not wipe · Government of the United States. out one? Mr. GARRETT. The question is an interesting one, as the 1\fr. MANN. We can wipe out one, but we can not say that a gentleman suggests. My recollection is that the Constitution certain person shall occupy a certain office. We can say that provides that the District of Columbia shall be under the abso­ the President may appoint him to the office, we may create lute control of Congress. I am not quoting the exact language. the office and we may provide that it shall be filled by the Mr. :MA1'TN. I do not remember the express provision of the Executive, but we have not the power to appoint. The power Constitution. · to fill the office, the power of naming the person, is not a Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. There is in the Constitution a _ legislative power, as I contend, but is an Executive power; and provision that Congress exclusi\ely shall legislate for the Dis­ in this day, and I suppose there always was a time, when the trict of Columbia. different brunches of the Government seek to encroach upon Mr. MA.i..~N . The provision of the Constitution is- each other, and when the Executive at times apparently seeks To exercise exclusive legislation In all cases whatsoever over such to encroach upon the legislative power, we ought to be careful District. that we do not attempt to usurp the Executive and adminis­ That does not change the powers of the Executive under the trative power by claiming that as a part of the legislative power. Constitution. That is a mere power given to Congress to legis­ Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. 1\fr. Speaker, if the gentleman late concerning the District, as it would otherwise legislat ~ con­ will permit an interruption, the office was created under the cerning other places in the country. That is found on page 90 territorial form of government in 1871, and it was continued of the Manual. It is an interesting question, but it is not wise by the act of June 20, 1874, and continued by the act of June to raise it where it is not necessary. 11 1878, which is known as the organic act. The office was Mr. GARRETT. My recollection of that provision of the Con­ cr~ated way back yonder. Long before the introduction of this stitution in regard to appointment by the President is that it bill Mr. Roberts hnd been appointed under these acts. This is names specific appointments that the President shall make, and not an act to again appoint him, but it is an act to change him then provides that Congress may have power to pro-.ide for some from one position, which the commissioners may do, and by other method of appointment of some other officers-" inferior lapse of time to another grade of the same position, which · officers " is the expression used. would increase his compensation. Mr. MANN. It says: Mr. MANN. I admit to the gentleman that the question is But Congr ess may by law vest the appointment of such inferior offi­ different from the question of original appointments. Tlle gen­ cers as they think proper in the President alone, in the courts of law, or In the heads of depart ments. tleman from Kentucky [l\fr. JOHNSON], who is our authority in the Rous~ upon District matters, just stated that this police That is the provision following the provision that the Presi­ force was created, I think, in 1871. dent shall make a11pointments of ambassadors, ministers, con­ Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Originally in 1861. suls, judges of tlle Supreme Court, and all other officers of the Mr. 1\IANN. 1\fy recollection is not very distinct, but it is United States whose appointments are not herein otherwise pro­ that the Metropolitan police force was originally created in vided for, the first of the officers being appointed by advice and consent of the Senate. 1861. l\Ir. GARRETT. My impression has been, so far as the Dis­ Mr. J OHNSON of Kentucky.• In 18-61; but that was before trict officers are concerned, that they were exclusi"vely under con­ we had the municipal government of the District of Columbia. trol of the Congress. We had the three divisions-Georgetown, Wnshington, and the levy court. The mayor of Georgetown ~t that tirn_e had the Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. In the debates on tlle act of right to appoint police; the mayor of the city of Washmgton ?ad 1878, commonly known as the organic act, this question was all thrashed out, and it was practically conceded by everybody the right to appoint police; and the levy court had the right tha t Congress llad the right to make appointments-in other to appoint police; but not until 1871, February 21, was that words, that the power given to the President to make appoint­ authority conferred upon the governor. ments was the general law, and this was the exception to it. Mr. MANN. My recollection is that in the act of 18Gl they 1\fr. MANN. If the gentleman will pardon me- created a police force for the District of Columbia. 1\fr. JOHNSO.rT of Kentucky. And in the original act, when Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Its functions to be exercised it was first prepnred nnc1 vresented to Congress, provi~ion was by the three authoritiesi . . made for their a ppointment otherwise than by the President. Mr. MANN. To be assigned in part to the city of Washmgi­ l\fr. MANN. These appointments do not have to be made by ton, in part to the city of Georgetown, and in part to tile coun- the President; they are made by the commissioners. Please dis­ try districts. . tinguish between the legislnti"rn power to create an office and Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. That is correct. to provide for filling it and the power to name the person who Mr. MANN. One-half the cost of those officers who were. as­ shall fill it. The power to create an office, the power to provide signed to the different localities to be paid by taxation raised that it shall be filled, is a legislati-.e function which we possess; upon the different municipalities. but when it comes to naming the person who shall fill the office, l\fr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. That is correct; and the rest that is an executive function which the legislative power does the United States Government was to pay. not possess. 1\Ir. l\fANN. I nm glad that my recollection agrees with the The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Illinois has recollection of the gentleman from Kentucky. I do not know expired. wllich of us would be the older to remember personally in re- Mr. GARRETT. I ask unanimous consent that the time of the gard to that. . · . gentleman be extended flrn minutes. l\fr. FOSTER. Neither gentleman need tell his nge. [Laughter.] The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Tennessee asks that The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend­ the time of the gentleman from Illinois be extended five minutes. ment. Is there objection? The question was taken. and the amendment was agreed to. There was no objection. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the next arpendrnent. . \ 1912. CONG-RESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE. 4613 -\ i The Clerk read as follows: SEC. G. That for carrying out t he provisions of this act there. is hereby appropriated, out of any moneys in the Treasury not other~1se I Line G, strike out the word " any " and insert in lieu thereof the appropriated, the sum of $25,000, to be expended only upon the du-ec­ words " the fil'st." tion and approval of the Attorney General for such purposes as be may 'l'he SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend- deem necessary. ment. Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I hope somebody will give us The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. :lil explanation of this bill and let us know whether it is a The SPEAKER. 'l'he Clerk will report the next umendment. propos-ition in an indirect or direct way, whatever it may be, to The Clerk read as follows: acquire Rock Creek Park. I am heartily in favor of that, but I Lino 7, strike out the word "exist" and insert in lieu thereof the would like to lmow whether this is accomplishing the purpose. worcl "occur." Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend­ from I1llnois is a trifle facetious in respect to acquiring Rock mcmt. Creek Park, when it has already been acq.uired. The Attorney 'J~ he question was taken, and the nmendrnent was agreed to. General drafted this bill and sent it over, and it has been n1)- Tlrn SPEAKER. The question now is on the engrossment and . proved by the Department of Justice and by the Commission­ third reading of the bill ns !\mended. ers of the District. I am not particularly' wedded to it, for the 'l'he bill w ns ordered to be engrossed and read a third time, reason that perhaps ultimately it does mean a pnrk; _b\1t was reud tlle third time, and passed. whether it does or cloes not should not . be a matter of scr10ns On motion of Mr. O'SHAUNESSY, a motion to reconsider the consideration at this time, becnuse, as n matter of fact, the vote by which the bill wns passed was laid on the table. United States Government owns land in the Anacostia Flats l\Ir. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Mr. Speaker, I move that the to which adverse title is set up, and there arc squatters on some Honse resolve itself into the Committee of the Whole House on of it, and clouds on the title to some of the very many lots the state of the Union for the purpose of considering District over tllere. What is to become of them finally should not be a of Columbia business. question now. If the United States Government owns them, The motion was ngreed to. the United States should recover them and the title should be .Accordingly the House resolved itself into the Committee of cleared and pat in the United States. After that is done, if the the Whole House on the state of the Union for the consiclieration United States wishes this property for its own use or Congress of District business, with Mr. OLDFIELD in the chair. consents that it may be given to the District of Columbia for IlECLAMATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF AN ACOSTIA RIVER AND FLATS. a park system, that becomes another question. But the first question, as I said, is if the United States Gov­ Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. 1\fr. Chairman, I call up the bill ernment owns valuable land, and it does, then the c!0uds to (H. H. 226±2) providing for the protection of the interests of title should be cleared and all squatters should be removed and the United States in lauds and waters comprising any part of all dispute::; settled. This is the first bill, I understand, that the Potomac Ilirnr, the Anacostia River or Eastern Branch, and has ever sought to do that and that alone. The various other Rock Creek and lands adjacent thereto. bills which have been introduced relative to this subject have The CH.AIIl:\lAl'l. The Clerk will report the bill. carried with them a park plan or an assessment of damages The Cierk read as follows : upon the property owners in that section over there. This does Be it enacted, etc., That for 1.he purpose of establishin"' and making not deal at all with that. It deals with nothing except the clear the title of the United States ft shall be the duty of the Attorney General of the United States to institute as soon as may be, or when­ question of regaining United States property which th.e Attorney ever in his judgment it is deemed proper, a suit or suits in the Supremo General of the United States says belongs to, the Uruted States Court of the District of Columbia against all persons and corporations, and removing clouds from the title .of property which the Attor­ or others, who may have, or pretend to have, any right, title, claim, or interest adverse to the complete title of the United States in and to ney General says belongs to the Umted States. any part or parcel of the land or water in the District of Columbia in, Mr. MANN. If I understand, if the gentleman will yield, it under, and adjacent to the Potomac River, the Anacostia River or East­ is proposed by this bill not to give the Attorney General au­ ern Branch, and Hock Creek, including the shores and submerged or partly submerged land, as well as the beds of said waterways, and also thority to commence condemnation proceedings, but simply to the upland immediately adjacent thereto, including made lands, fiats, file a bill to quiet the title of the United States. and marsh lands. l\.lr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. To file a. bill in equity, the SEC. 2. Tbat the suit or suits mentioned in the preceding section shall be in the nature of a bill in equity, and there shall be made parties de­ bill says. fendant thereto all persons and corporations, or others, known to set up J\Ir. ~I.ANN. Just where is this property? Will the gentleman or assert any claim or right to or in the land or water in said preceding tell us? section mentioned, and against all other persons and corporations, or Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. It is alorig the Eastern Bra.nch otheri:;, who may claim to have any such ri 17ht, title, or interest. On the filing of said bill process shall issue and be served, according to the of the river above and below the navy yard and on both sides ordinary course of said court, upon all persons and corporations.. or of the river, extending to the Maryland line of the District others, within the jurisdiction 6f said court ; in case said land is in actual adverse possession to the United States notice shall be served of Columbia. . on the parties in actual possession, and public notice shall be given, Mr. J\IA.NN. Will the gentleman tell us whether there is by advertisement in two newspapers published in the city of Washing­ involved in any way, directly or jndirectly, in this Mll or the ton, for three weeks successively, of the pendency of said suit, and cit­ proceedings which this bill is a part of, a proposition to condemn ing all persons and corporations, or others interested in the subject mat­ ter of said suit or in the land or water in this act mentioned, to appear, a vortion of that property and pay for it b~ special assessment? at a day named in such notice, in said court to answer the Raid bill a.nil Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I understand not. set forth and maintain any right, title, interest, or claim that any per­ .Mr. MANN. The gentleman knows there has been a good son or corporation, or others, may have in the premises; and the court may order such further notice as it shall think fit to any party in deal in the newspapers on that subject. interest. J\Ir. JOHNSON of Kentucky. There has; but this does not SEC. 3. That the said cause shall then proceed with all practicable pertain to this bill. expedition to a final determination by said court of all rights drawn in question therein, and the said court shall have full power and jurisdic­ Mr. l\IA.NN. I understand it does not pertain to this bill, but tion by its decrees to determine every question of right, title, interest, does it not pertain to purpose for which this bill is directeu; or claim arising in the premises and to vacate, annul, set aside, or con­ firm any claim of any character arising or set forth In the premises ; that is that the Government shall assert its title to certain and its decree shall be final and conclusive upon all pers0ns and cor­ property o-rer there with the expectation of then condemning porations, or others, parties to the suitJ or who shall fail, after public property to which it does not have title as the court shall notice as hereinbefore in this act proviaed to appear in said court and litigate hls, her, their, or its claim, and they shall be deemed forever ascertain and raise the money by assessment? barred from setting up or maintaining any right, title, interest, or claim Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. No; that is not the object of in the premises. this bill. The object of this bill is to take away from the use SEC. 4. That if on the final hearing of said cause the said Supreme Court of the District of Columbia shall be of opinion that there exists of other people this property when it belongs to the United any right, title, or interest in the land or water in this act mentioned States Government. in any person, or corporation, or others, adverse to the complete and l\Ir. MANN. Can the gentleman estimate at all the area that paramount right of the United States. the said court shall forthwith and in a summary way proceed to ascertain the value of any such right, would be involved here? title, interest, or claim, exclusive of the value of any improvement to Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. I asked the Department of the property covered by such right, title, or interest made by or under Justice for that information, and they have not given me the the authority of the United States, and report thereof shall be made to the Congress. accurate figures. They say it requires some measurements that SEC. 5. That from the final decree of the Supreme Court of the Dis­ have not been made, but there are a good many hundred acres trict of Columbia, and every part thereof, in the premises, an appeal that the United States Government is entitled to in that seetion. shall be allowed to the United States and to any other party in the cause complaining of such decree to the Supreme Court of the United They also desire the passage of this bill that some needed land States, which last-mentioned court shall have full power and jurisdic­ which is in question just beyond the navy yard may be acquired tion to hear, try, and determine the said matter, and every part thereof, for the purpose of extending the navy yard. and to make final decree in the premises ; and the said cause shall, on motion of the Attorney General of the United States, be advanced to the l\fr. ?if.ANN. Of course this really appropriates quite a con­ earliest practicable hearing. siderable sum of money to quiet the title to not a very large 4614 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. APRIL 11, area of land. It is safe to say tlrnt if there are people li"\ing The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from :Nebraska moves that I 1 I upon this land claiming title to it that not many of them will 1 the :first reading of the bill be dispensed 'vith. Is there ob- I haYe as much money proportionately to spend in defending their 1 jection? title as the GoYernment will ha\e in prosecuting its title. Mr. 1\1.A.1'.'N. It is a yery short bill, and I think it ought to Ur. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Well, the committee left that be read. matter-the bill appropriates $25,000, and as to whether that is The CHA.IRl\IAN. The gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN] too large or not the committee left it to the discretion of the objects, and the Clerk will read. Attorney General: The Clerk concluded the reading of the bill, as follows: Mr. MANN. I understand. I do not think the committee is SEC. 2. That the tax, the levy and collection of which is herein pro­ subject to any criticism for that. That, howen•r, indicates the vided for, shall be an additional one, over and above the tax rate now provided for by general law, and the proceeds thereof shall not l> e used size of the undertaking and the \alue of the land in a way, and for any purpose other than that hereinbefore authorized. Said t ax the qnantity of land which may be concerned. Is it possible shall 1.Je levied and collected, as above provided, by the Commissio -::.ie rs that the Go\ernment owns se1eral hundred acres of land down of the District of Columbia at the same time as the 1-ax on all prnµcrty now sub~ect to general taxation in the sa~ d District. There shall be here on these creeks or branches which other people are in pos­ no contnbution to either of the aforesaid funds, either directly or in­ session of? directly, from the United States. The Commissioners of the District Ur. JOHNSON of Kentucky. No; but the question arises on of Columbia are hereby directed, on the first dny of each and every month until the first collection of taxes under this act shall have be­ a ~hange of the ri\er in one respect, as to what point the Gov­ come available, to draw a requisition upon the Secretary of the Treasury ernment does go, and the whole matter in some sections is in of the United States for such sum or sums as will, when added to the dispute and there is !Jut one way of arriving at the correct own­ amount already to the credit of each of the hereinbefore-named funds, be sufficient to pay In full the amount lawfully due each and every ership of it, and the Attorney General bad the committee to person upon the roll of the police relief fund, District of ColumlJin, as understand this was the only way he could see by which it well as those upon the roll of the firemen's relief furnl, District of could be :urh-ed at. Columbia; and the said Secretary of the Treasury shall cause to be paid the amount of said requisition for the said purposes out of any Mr. UA:l\"'N. We made an appropriation a few years ago, I moncvs in the Treasury to the credit of the District of Columbia ''hich think, of $10,000 to be expended by the Attorney General in can, ln the opinion of the said commissioners, be spared for the time investigating the title of the Government to certain river front being from any fund held by the said Treasury for the District of Co­ lumbia: Providccl, howeve1·, '.rhat any money so usc

in full in the report accompanying the bill, each pensioner being future needs if we figured out exactly what pensions we could given by name and address, the cause of the pension, the date, pay. and the amount being fully stated in the report. Mr. REDFIELD. I will say to the gentleman that that The money from the present sources permitted by law is not could only be done by scaling down very materially the pen­ sufficient with which to pay these men that which belongs to sions already allotted. · them. There was a shortage during the fiscal year just closed Mr. MADDEN. I would be in favor of paying all deficiencies of about $15,000, nnd the pensioners failed to receive the money if we adopted the policy which I haYe suggested. due them by that amount. There is an estimated shortage in Mr. REDFIELD. The committee would like to have it placed tho fiscal year ending June 30, 1912, of about $25,000, and by clearly before the House that they are not presenting a pension so much the pensioners will fail to get the money whicll has bill. No pension bill bas been suggested by the committee or been lawfully set aside for them. This condition of a decreasing contemplated by tllem in this connection. But accepting the supply for an increasing fund has been going on for a number law now existing, and taking it as it stands, the committee hnve of years. It was foreshadowed in Report No. 42!> of tho Senate, endeavored by this bill to provide the funds for making the of the Sixtieth Congress, first session. At that time that report, necessary payments under it. to which reference is made in the report of your committee, Mr. MADDEN. I hope the gentleman will excuse me for pointed out the condition which now exists. interrupting him, but I am only asking for information. I do This fund is one that has always been wholly paid by the not want to embarrass the situation at all. District of Columbia. Into it not n dollar of United States l\fr. REDFIELD. I nm >ery glad to have the gentleman money has ever gone. It is supplied by a dollar per month re­ ask all the questions he desires. • ta incd from the officers' pay, by certain fines, which are depos­ Mr. MADDEN. I was wondering whether the gentleman from ited to the credit of the firemen's relief fund, and from certain New York could tell us what is the aggregate amount of pen­ other resources, like tlle dog tax and others. sions paid to the firemen and policemen annually? Thero bas been a continuous history here of temporizing with Mr. REDFIELD. That n11penrs in detail in the report, on this fund. As it ran short from one source or another there pages 2 and 3, for the years 1898 to 1911, inclusive. would be added a certain amount to it. That method of dealing Mr. MADDEN. What is tlie aggregate? with it has proved increasingly unsatisfactory, and now your l\Ir. REDFIELD. I can tell the gentleman the aggregate of committee thought it-- the two funds by adding together the figures which appear in Mr. MADDEN. Would it interrupt the gentleman if he were the report. - to allow me to nsk him a question? 1\-Ir. JOHNSON of Kentucky. It is $125,000 in round num­ Mr. REDFIELD. No. bers. Mr. :MADDEN. I notice the amount of the pension ·rnries :Mr. REDFIELD. It is $120,000 to $125,000 a year for the greatl~. I was wondering whether there was any fixed amount two funds. • granted as pensions, and why, and how? Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. To which fund is added the . Mr. REDFIELD. That is by law, I believe, charged upon the $700 or $800 monthly which they themselYos pay by taking a Commissioners of the District. · dollar a month from their respecti>e salaries. Mr. MADDEN. And it is optional with them as to what they 1\fr. MADDEN. Wllat is the average annual income from the shall allow? present sources to be applied for pensions of these two classes? Mr. REDFIELD. Yes; sa>e that there is a maximum fixed. :\Ir. REDFIELD. The total receipts from all sources for the Mr. MADDEN. I was wondering if it would not be Yery year 1911 for the police fund were $81,500 and for the firemen's much better if there were some special amount fixed by law, fund, $40,200. instead of leaving it optional with the commissioners. l\Ir. MADDEN. What are those sources? Mr. REDFIELD. Your committee did not attempt, I will Mr. REDFIELD. From the dog taxes-- say to the gentleman from Illinois [l\Ir. MADDEN], in the faintest Mr. 1\-IADDEN. What do those taxes amount to? way here to alter or change the existing pension law, or to deal Mr. REDFIELD. The dog tax for the year 1911, which went ·with it at all; but, accepting the law as it stood, your com­ to the police fund, was $22,115.14. None of that was applicable mittee attempted to provide means of payment of that now to the firemen's fund. lawfully to be paid, but, as a matter of fact, largely unpaid. I will say to the gentleman from Illinois that this is all shown Mr. MADDEN. Will the gentleman state what the maximum in detail in the very full information furnished by the auditor pension is per month? of the District, to be found on pages 2 and 3 of the report. Mr. REDFIELD. Fifty dollars per month. Furthermore, in order that this whole matt~r might be venti­ Mr. l\IADDEN. Does that include commanding officers as lated as fully as possible, you will find on page 4 of the report • well as patrolmen? not only a statement of the pensions that are now paid, but a l\Ir. REDFIELD. I think the commanding officers receive a comparati•e statement, showing what they are now as com­ larger sum, fixed by statute. That is all reviewed in Senate pared with what they were at the time of the last legislation Report No. 420, to which reference is made. upon the rnbject. Mr. .MADDEN. I notice that some of these pensions are On tl1e final pages of the report will be found the name, ad­ higher than $GO a month. dress, and length of service of each pensioner, and the amount Mr. REDFIELD. I think the officers' pensions are higher, be­ and ca use of each pension now paid. ing fixed by statute. nut I repeat that the committee did not Mr. MADDEN. Are the widows and orphans of firemen and attempt to a1ter the law fixing the pensions, but, assuming that policemen pensioned? trJ be lawfully fixed, to provide for the shortage of the fund, and Mr. REDFIELD. They appear upon this list and are stated only that. to be widows and children, in each case where such is the fact. Mr. MADDEN. How much is that shortage now? I am >ery glad to have these detailed questions asked, because l\fr. REDFIELD. The shortage for the year ended June 30, the committee have tried in this report to coyer these details 1911, was about $15,000. The figures here, which were obtained so fully that they can easily be studied. from the auditor of the District, stated that in the police fund Tllere appears, also, on page 5 of the report, the results that the shortage was $10,304.30. will be carried by this bill in the shape of increased taxation, l\Ir. MADDEN. Covering how long a period? from which it would appear that, reckoning this deficiency as Mr. REDFIELD. For that year. And the shortage in the $5,000 per annum more than it now is, assuming it to be $30,000 firemen's fund for that year was $5,2G2, and for the present year instead of approximately $25,000, the auditor of the District ending June 30, 1912, there is an estimated shortage of ap­ states, and it is shown in this report, that the net re~ults will proximately $2G,000. be that a man paying taxes on property valued at $10,000 will Mr. MADDEN. When the pension is once fixed, is it within be called upon to pay 85 cents a year because of this measure. the power of the commissioners to increase that pension or Mr. :MANN. In that connection will the gentleman yield? reduce it? · M:r. REDFIELD. With pleasure. l\Ir. REDFIELD. I am not prepared to say what the law is Mr. MANN. Is not -very much of the property in the Dis­ on that subject, for the reason thnt-- trict unimproved, and is not the valuation of such unimproved l\1r. JOHNSON of Kentucky. This does not affect it. lots so low that the tax under the gentleman's proposition wou1d Mr. REDFIELD. This bill does not deal with that at all. not amount to so much as one cent per lot? And is it not a Mr. MADDEN. The reason why I. asked the question is that rather expensive proposition to apportion a tax of 1 or 2 cents I was wondering whether some law cou1d not be enacted fixing against each lot? at a specific amount the pension to be paid, and whether if that l\fr. REDFIELD. I am not sufficiently informed as to the were done it would not meet the case; whether we would not details of property in the District to say to what extent the ha ye revenue coming in from the present sources to meet all condition mentioned by pim preyails, but I have taken this up XLVIII--290 4616 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. APRIL -11, with the auditor of the District and hrl Ye gone O"ver it with The SPEAKER. The question is on the engrossment and him very carefully, and he assures me tba t there will be no third reading of the bill, of which the Clerk will report the material, practical difficulty as to expense in assessing and title. allotting this tax. The Clerk rend as follows : Mr. 1\1.A.NN. Does not this bill require that this tax shall be A bill providing for the protection of the interests of the United separately extended on the tax rolls? Stutes in lands and waters comprising any part of the Potomac River !he Anacostla Iliver or Eastern Branch, and Rock Creek, and lands ad~ . l\Ir. REDFIELD. Not at all. This bill expressly requires the Jacent thereto. opposite of that. A misunderstanding to that effect arose as to this bill in its original form, but when it was amended and a The bill wa s ordered to be engrossed and read a third time, section was addecl by the committee, it was then expressly was read the third time, and pnssecl. ~tated, and it is understood by the auditor of the District, that :M ARY DANA HER A ND JULIA FERN DANAHER. this is not a separate tux:, but is to be a portion of the tax now l\fr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, I present a privileged report on authorized by law. Honse resolution 472. 1\lr. MANN. I ha rn no doubt but that the gentleman is cor­ rect. When I read this bill I had the impression, and I have The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the resolution. the impression now, that it requires a separate tax. The Clerk read us follows : hlr. REDFIELD. I call the attention of the gentleman to House resolution 472 (H. Rept. 53u) . Resolved, T hat there sball be paid out of the contingent fund of the lines 2 and 5, inclusiYe, on page 3: House to Rose i\IcCall, guardian of Hose Mary Danaher and Julia Fern S:iid tux sbn 11 be levied and collec ted, as above provided, by the Com­ Danaher, minor daughters of Thomas J. Da naher, late Capitol police­ miss ioners of the District of Columbia. at the same time as the tax on all man, an amount equal to six months of his regular pay as such police­ property now subject to general taxation in the said District. man, and an additional amount, not to ex:ceed $150, to pay the funeral expenses of said Danaher. In bringing that matter to the attention of the auditor for the District, he approved verbally and, in fact, revised completely 1\lr. LLOYD. l\fr. Speaker, Thomas J. Danaher was a Capitol thQ whole form not only of that paragraph, but of all the bill, in policeman who died a short time since. This is the usual reso­ order that it might conform to the existing practice. lution providing for the payment of an amount equal to' six 1\fr. 1\IA.1\TN. I suppose the auditor speaks with some degree months of his regular pay to his family. of authority. Tlle resolution was agreed to. Mr. REDFIELD. I thought he did. DANIEL D. WEDSTER. Mr. MANN. But the provision in the bill that the tax shall Mr. LLOYD. l\Ir. Speaker, I also present the following privi­ be an additional one, over and above the tax rate now provided leged report from the Committee on Accounts, which I send to by general law, would seem to me to indicate that this was to be the desk and ask to have read. extended separately and not added to the tax rate:- The Clerk read as follows: Mr. REDFIELD. I would say to the gentleman that I have House resolution 202 (II. Rcpt. 533). never known n.ny construction of the word " additional " to Resolved~ That the Clerk of the House be, and be is hereby, author­ mean separate, and upon bringing that to the notice of the ized and directed to pay, out of the contingent fund of the !louse to auditor of the District he did not see that distinction. Speaking the executors of th\? estate of Dnniel B. Webster, late a laborer in' the House of Ileprcscntntives, an amount equal to six months of his salary for myself, as the author of the bill, I will be glad to accept any and an additional amount n ot exceeding $250 to pay the funeral ex­ phraseology to make it more explicit. penses of the said Daniel Il. Webster. Mr. :!'il.Al""N. When you say that n certain thing shall be addi­ With the following ~menclment: tional to something else, it means separate; it does not mean Line 3, after the word " House," strike out the words " to the execu­ a part of. When you say that a tax shall be an additional tax, tors of tbe estate " and insert in lieu thereof the words " to Della. it seems to me that it means a separate tax. Certainly that Webster Simms, Martilla Webster Jones, Francis Webster Honesty·, matter ought to be arranged so that there will be no difficulty Nettie Webster Brogsdale, and Sylvia Webster Barnes, daughters and in 1·eference to the collection of taxes and tax sales. sole heirs." Now, I would like to ask the gentleman one other question, The SPF..AKER. Tlle question is on agreeing to the amend­ assuming that this bill will not be disposed of to-night, so that ment. the gentleman may be prepared to give the information on the The question was taken, ancl the amendment was agreed to. subject when the bill comes up again. The gentleman has re­ The SPEA.KEil. The question now is on agreeing to the ferred to the committee having made no change in reference to re£olution. the pension laws, but only endeavored to provide money to pay The question was taken, and the resolution was agreeu to. the pensions now allowed by law. So that the gentleman will ADDITIONAL CLERK, COMMITTEE ON ENROLLED DILLS. be prepared, I "ish to call his attention, in a way, to what seems to me to be the fact that pensions now allowed by law Mr. LLOYD. l\fr. Speaker, I also present the following privi­ are not fixed pensions at all, but a provision that so much leged report from the Committee on Accounts, whch I send. to money shall be in the policemen and firemen's pension fund to the desk and ask to have read. be distributed by the allowance of the commissioners. The law The Clerk rend as follows : does not provide the amount to be allowed for pensions at all, House resolution 463 (II. Ilept. 532). although it has a limitation, but provides a fund out of which Resolved, That the chairman of the Committee on Enrolled Ilills be, and he is herebyi authorized to appoint an additional clerk of said com­ pensions shall be paid. I do not understand how it can be mittee, who shal be paid out of the contingent fund of the House at the said that when you increase the fund you are simply providing rate of $6 per day from and after the time he entered upon his duties, money for the payment of pensions now allowed by law, when which shall be evidenced by the certificatioa of said chairman. the only allowance is a fund now provided out of which the With the following amendment : commissioners may pay pensions. Lines 5 and t>, strike out the words " from and after the time he en­ I suggest to the gentleman now that there are other matters tered upon his duties, which shall be evidenced by the certification of to be brought before the House. I desire to be heard at some said chairman " and insert in lieu thereof the words " during the re­ length on the bill myself in reference to civil pensions. It is mainder of the present session of the Sixty-second Congress." now 5 o'clock. The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend- JUr. JOHNSON of Kentucky. Mr. Chairman, I mo-ve that the ment. committee rise and report the bill II. R. 22642 to the House Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? with a favorable recommendation. Mr. LLOYD. Certainly. The motion was agreed to. Mr. MANN. Is the work in the enrolling and engrossing Accordingly the committee rose; and the Speaker having rooms now so great that they have to have this additional resumed the chair, Mr. OLDFIELD, Chairman of the Committee clerk? of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that Mr. LLOYD. Yes. This clerk is usually provided about a that committee bad had under consideration the bill (H. R. month earlier. 22642) for the protection of the interests of the United States Mr. MANN. Does this clerk go in the enrolling or in the en­ in lands and waters comprised in part of the Potf>mac River, grossing room? .Anacostia River or Eastern Branch, and Rock Creek, and lands Mr. LLOYD. In the enrolling room. adjacent thereto, and had directed him to report the same back The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend- without amendment, with the recommendation that the bill do ment , pass; that the committee had also had under consideration the The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. bill ( H. R. 20840) to provide for deficiencies in the fund for The SPEAKER. Tlle question now is on agreeing to the police and firemen's pensions and relief in the District Qf resolution as amended. Columbia, and had come to no resolution thereon. · The question was t;~en, and the resolution was agreed to. \ 1912. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. ASSISTANT CLERK, COMMITTEE ON TIIE JUDICIARY. of some person or under his control a large sum of money it in­ \ Mr. LLOYD. l\f r. Speaker, I nlso nresent the following priv­ evitably means the employment of more people at higher sal­ \ ileged report from the Committee on Accounts, which I send to aries than would be provided with a smaller sum. The gentle­ the desk and ask to hnvc read. man, instead of paying two or three hundred dollars a month The Clerk read as foJlows : for expert QCCountants, will find he will be called upon to pay House resolution 354 (H. Ilept. 534). $500 to $1,000 a month, because he has the money and they -will Ilcsoli;ed, That the Committee on the Judiciary ls hereby authorized tell him they will not work for less. to employ an assistant clerk at a salary of $1,GOO per annum, to be l\fr. MURDOCK. Will the gentleman yield? paid from the contingent fund of the House. Mr. ALEXANDER. Yes. With the following amendment: 1\fr. MURDOCK. Will the gentleman explain what is pro­ Linc 3, strike out the words "$1,CiOO per annum" and insert in lieu posed to be investigated under this resolution? thereof the words "$G per day during the remainder of the present Mr. MANN. The Shipping Trust. session." l\1r. MURDOCK. It says, "Investigate the methods and prac­ The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend­ tices of various lines of ships." What is the purpose? ment. l\1r. ALEXA.i\DER. Is the gentleman familiar with House l\fr. MA:NN. Mr. Speaker, is this a resolution for the Com- resolution 425? mittee on the Judiciary? Mr. MURDOCK. I am not, and that is why I asked the ques­ 1\.Ir. LLOYD. Yes. tion. Mr. MAJ\TN. I hope that it will pass. Mr. ALEXANDER. Well, in brief, it provic.les for an investi­ The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend­ gation of alleged foreign shipping combines, domestic shipping ment. combines, and combines between domestic nnd foreign shipping, The question was tnken, nnd the amendment was agreed to. and the relations between them and the railroads and all related The SPEAKER. The question now is on agreeing to the reso­ subjects. It is n very comprehensi"rn resolution. lution as amemlcd. l\fr. MURDOCK. Will it be comprehensive enough to take in The question was tu ken, and the resolution .was agreed to. the foreign subsidies? INV:ij;STIG.ATION OF SHIP LINES. Mr. ALEXANDER. Yes; and I will say to the gentleman that I have already taken up this and other subjects with the Mr. LLOYD. 1\Ir. Speaker, I also present the following priv­ departments and am cndeayoring to get all the information I ileged report from the Committee on Accounts, which I send to can that is called for in the resolution througll the departments tlie desk and ask to ha vc read. of the Government. The information called for that will require The Clerk read as follows : investigations abroad I am undertaking to get through the State ' House resolution 470 (H. Ilcpt. G30) . Department and the Bureau of Trndc Relations. Ilcsol'l:cd, That all expenses that may be incurred by the Committee on the :Merchant Marine and Fisheries under resolution (H. Res. 425) In connection with the chief of that burenu, I have fornrn­ adopted Jfcbruary 24, 1912, authorizing said committee to investigate the lated inquiries, which have gone forwnr.d to the diplomatic methods and practices of various lines of ships, etc., to an amount not and consular representatives of our Government, to investign tc exceedin~ $2G,000, shall be paid out of the contingent fund of the House of neprescntatlves on vouchers ordered by said committee, signed tlle question of subsidies, subventions, bounties, and so forth, by the chairman thereof, and approved by the Committee on Accounts, and to what extent they are paid by foreign governments, and evidenced by the signature of the chairman thereof. the laws relating thereto, and whether or not rings and pools l\Ir. :MANN. Mr. Speaker, us I understand it, this resolution exist, and to what extent, if at all, they are legalized under the cnrrics l?25,000. laws of other countries. We are seeking to get all that in- · Mr. LLOYD. Yes. This carries the same amount as was formation cnlled for abroad through these means. The War provided in the matter of th~ investigation of the Steel Cor­ and State Departments and the Departments of Justice and poration r.nd in the matter of the investigation of the Sugar Commerce and Labor are cooperating with the committee in Trnst. every possible way. l\Ir. MANN. I think the sugar investigation did not carry Mr. MURDOCK. Now, would the resolution be comprehen­ $2!3.000. sive enough to take in the making of a contract between foreign Mr. LLOYD. The gentleman is right. That was $10,000. ship companies and railroads in the matter of transporting im­ l\Ir. MANN. The other carried $25,000. It seems to me that migrants to this country and after their arrival in New York the gentleman from Missouri ought to be willing to start with locating them in the West? less than $25,000. Ile will find it embarrasses him more than Mr. ALEXANDER. Yes; it is broad enough for that. anybody olse to have $25,000 at his command, with the hungry Mr. MURDOCK. Does the gentleman contemplate doing that horde that will be pressing on him on every side in a campaign. thing? 1\Ir. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from l\1r. ALEXANDER. No ; we have not that matter directly Missouri [Mr. ALEXANDER] . in mind. Mr. ALEXANDER. Mr. Speaker, I will say to the gentleman Mr. l\f.A.NN. I s it not a fact that this resolution is broad from Illinois that so _far there has been no hungry horde after enough to authorize an investigation of everything connected the gentleman from Missouri. with the merchant marine since the memorable trip of Noah's l\Ir. MANN. 'l'he gentleman has not had any money yet. Ark? 1\ir. ALEXAJ\TDER. We had prospects, and ordinarily that is l\fr. .ALEXANDER. No ; I think that we wonld be barred enough. by the statute of limitations; at least I hope so. I am very Mr. MANN. Why, here you arc going into n political cam­ sure I have no disposition to go that fur back. In fact, in view paign. I do not think the gentleman will use the money for a of the campaign pending, I enter upon the labor involved with political campnign, but a thousand people will want him to do very great reluctance anyhow. so and suggest persons to whom that money should be dis­ Tlle question was taken, and the resolution was agreed to. trilmtcd. I have no objection, if he insists upon the $25,000, ENROLLED IlILL PRESENTED TO THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS AI'PilOV AL. although if I were in his place I would want to start in with :i\lr. CR.A. VENS, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, re­ n smaller sum, feeling that if I needed more money the House ported that this day they had presented to the President of the would be willing to grant it. We spent $25,000 on the steel United States for his approval the following bill : investigation. I do not think the gentleman will have time H . R. 18661. An act to provide for an extension of time of during the rest of this Congress to spend $25,000 in the same payment of all unpaid payments due from homesteaders on the way. that it was spent in the steel investigation. Coeur d'Alene · Indian Heservation, as provided for under an Mr. ALEXANDER. I wish to say to the gentleman from act of Congress approved June 21, Hl06. Illinois that the committee will not spend a dollar that is not ENROLLED IlILL SIGNED. necessary to be expcrnled, and so fur we have incurred no ex­ penses except in the employment of one expert, who entered The SPEAKER announced his signature to enrolled bill of the upon the discharge of his duties on Monday, but this investiga­ following title : tion necessarily will extend beyond the present session of Con­ S. 2. An act supplementary to nnd a.mendatory of the net gre!':S into the sninmcr months, and it is necessary that pro­ entitled ".An act. fo r tbe diYision of the lands and funds of tlie vision be made for the expenses that may be incurred. I hardly Osage Nation of Indinns in Oklahoma," approved June 28, lDOG, think it is necessary to assure the House that not one dollar and for other purposes. will be expended rn1111ecessarily. CONTINGE:r\T FUND DISilURSEMENT. l\Ir. 1\I.ANN. Oh, nobody supposes the gentleman will volun­ l\1r. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, I offer the following resolution. tarily spend money unnecessarily, and yet every 1\Iember in this The SPEAKER. Tlle gentleman from Missouri [Mr. LLOYD] House knows perfectly well that where you put into the hands offers a resolution, which the Clerk will report. 4618 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. APRIL 11, I

The Clerk read as follows : sundry bridges across the Tug Fork of tho Bjg Sanely River [ House resolution 46!) (Il. Rept. 531). reported the same with amendment, accompanied by a report Resozvea, That the sum of $4,000 shall be paid out of the contingent (No. 527), which saicl bill and report were referred to the ! fund of the Honse of Representatives on vouchers ordered by the com­ House ·Oalendar. I mittee appointed under the resolution of the House of Representatives i adopted Ma.y lG 1911, to make an investigation for the purpose of ascertaining whether there have occurred violations by the United States REPORTS OF 001\HHTTEES ON PRIVATE BILLS AND Steel Corporation, or other corporaticms or persons, of the antitrust act of July 2, 1890, and the acts supplementary thereto, the various RESOLUTIONS. interstate-commerce acts, and the acts relative to the national banking Under clause '.2 of Rule XIII, private bills and resolutions were associations, etc.; and that all vouchers ordered by said committee shall be signed by the chairman thereof and ap~rovcd by the Committee on severally reported. from committees, delivered to tlle Olerk, and Accounts, evidenced by the signature of the chairman thereof. referred to the Committee of the Whole House, as follows : Tl.le SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the reso­ Mr. SHERWOOD, from the Oommittee on Invalid Pensions, lution. to which was referred the bill (S. 5493) granting pensions and Mr. 1'1ANN. Mr. Speaker, can the gentleman tell us whether increase of pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Oivil this will be the last installment of this continued story? War and certain widows and dependent relatives of such sol­ 1\Ir. LLOYD. 1\ir. Speaker, I can not answer except to say diers and sailors, reported the same without amendment, ac­ this, that unless it is necessary to ask for an additional appro­ companied by a report (No. 518 ), which said bill and report priation or allowance it will be sufficient. were referred to the Private Calenclar. . Mr. M.Al-i"'N. That is certainJy a clear and frank statement. He also, from the same committee, to which was referred [Laughter.] the bill (S. 5624) granting pensions and increase of pensions The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the reso­ to certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain lution. widows and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors, The question was taken, and the resolution was agreed to. reported the same without amendment, accompanied by a report Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I suggest to the gentleman that it (No. 519) , which said bill and report were referred to the is getting pretty late. Private Calendar. Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, there are two other resolutions He also, from the same committee, to which was referred that I hoped to bring up, but the gentleman from Illinois is the bill ( S. 5415) granting pensions and increase of pensions anxious that we conclude at the present time, and he has noti­ to certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain fied me of the fact that there is not a quorum present and that widows and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors, tlle question would be raised. I therefore move tllat we do now reported the same without amendment, accompaniecl by a report adjourn. (No. 520), which said bill and report were referred to the Private On1endar . .ADJOURNMENT. He also, from the same committee, to which was referred The motion was agreed to; accordingly (at 5 o'clock and 18 the bill ( S. 5670) grunting pensions ri.ncl increase of pensions min~tcs p. m.) the ·H~use adjourned until to-morrow, Friday, to certain soldiers nnd sailors of the Civil War and certain April 12, 1912, at 12 o'clock noon. widows and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors, reported the same without amendment, accompanied by n report EXEOUTIVE 001\Il\fUNIOATION. (No. · 521), whicll said bill and report were referred to the Under clause 2 of Rule XXIV, a letter from the Secretary of Private Calendar. War, transmitting, with a letter from the Ohief of Engineers 1\Ir. DIFENDERF FIB., from the Oommittee on Pensions, to r.eport of ex amination and survey of Columbia Rh-er, Wasb'. which was referred the bill (H. R. 23190) granting pensions (H. Doc. No. 693), was taken from the Speaker's table, referred and increase of pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the to the Oommittee on Rivers and Harbors, and ordered to be Regular Army and l' :ravy, and certain soldiers and sailors of printed. wars other than the Olvil War, and to widows and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors, reported the same with­ out amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 525), whicll REPORTS OF CO:MUITTEES ON PUBLIC BILLS .A.ND said bill and re11ort were referred to the Private Oalendar. RESOLUTIONS. Mr. HUGHES of Georgia., from the Oommittee on Military Uncler clause 2 of Rule XIII, bills and resolutions were sev­ .Affairs, to which was referred the bill (H. R. 606) for the relief eraUy reported from committees, delivered to the Clerk, and of John Trefi'eisen, reported the same with amendment, accom­ referred to the several calendars therein named, as follows : panied by a report (No. 528), which said bill and report were .Mr. DENT, from tlle Committee on the Public Lands, to which referred to the Private Calendar. was referred the bill (S. 244) extending the operation of the act of June 10, 1910, to coal lands in Al::i.bama, reported the same CIL\.NGE OF REFERENOE. with amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 522), which said bill and report were referred to the Committee of the Whole Under clause 2 of Rule XXII, the Oommittee on Pensions House on the state of tllc Union. was discharged from the consideration of the bill (H. R. 13632) l\fr. HARDY, from the Oommittec on the Merchant Marine and granting an increase of pension to William Denbam, and the Fisheries, to which was referred the bill (H. R. 17235) to same was referred to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. grant American registry to the Norwegian ice breaker Kit, re­ ported the same with amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 528), which said bill and report were referred to the Committee PUBLIC BILLS, RESOLUTIONS, AND l\fE.M:ORIALS. of the Whole House on the state of the Union. Uncler clause 3 of Rule X:XII, bills, resolutions, and memorials hlr. HENRY of Texas, from the Oommittee 'on Rules, to which were introduced and se-verally referred as follows: was referred the joint resolution (H. J. Res. 2G2) creating a By Mr. DAVENPORT : A bill ( H. R. 23183) pro·dding for committee of Congress to im·estigate the building of post roads the removal of restrictions from certain Jands in the Cherokee in the United States, reported the same without amendment, ac­ Kation, Okla., and for other purposes ; to tllo Committee on In­ companied by a report (No. 524), which said joint resolution dian Affairs. and report were referred to the Committee of the Whole House Also, a bill ( H. R. 23184) directing the Secretary of the In­ on the state of the Union. terior to deliver patents to Seminole allottees, and for other pur­ l\1r. l\IcCOY, from the Oommittee on the Judiciary, to which poses; to the Committee on Indian Affairs. was referred the bill (II. R. 21532) to incorporate the Rocke­ By l\fr. BYRNS of 'l'ennessee : A bill (II. R. 23185) to prevent feller Foundation, reported tlle same without amendment, ac­ and punish the desccrntion of the flag of the United States; to companied by a report (Ko. 529), which said bill and report the Committee on the Judiciary. were referred to the Committee of the Whole House on the state By Mr. GARRETT: A bill (H. R. 23186) to amend an act of the Union. entitled "An act to codify, revise, and amend the Jnws relating :Mr. PEPPER, from th e Committee on Military Affairs, to to the judiciary," approved March 3, 1911; to tlle Oornmittee on which was referred tho joint r esolution (S. J . Res. 90) to au­ the Judiciary. th.orize Capt. John W. Gulick, United States Army, to accept a By Mr. LAFFERTY: A bi11 (H. R. 23187) creating a general position under the Government of the Republic of Chile, re­ parcel post; to the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads. ported the S

interstate-commerce liquor bills; to the Committee on Interstate .Also, petition of the Woman's· Christinn Temperance Union and Foreign Commerce. of Hawkinson, N. Dak., for passage of the Kenyon-Sheppard By Mr. CALDER: Petition of A. J. Clymer, Vnn Wert, Ohio, interstate liquor bill; to the Committee on the Judiciary. urgin~ passage of House bill 17222 forbidding the transporta­ By Mr. HOBSON : Petition of members of Vaughn class of tion througllout tlle United States of unweaned calves; to the Calvary Baptist Sunday School, for restricting ancl reuucing the Committee on Interstnte and Foreign Commerce. number of saloons in the District of Columbia, etc.; to the Also, petition of the National Civic Federation, department on Committee on the District of Columbia. compensation for industrial accidents and their prevention, By Mr. LAFE iN: Soldier's ailid:wit containing evidence to be urging passage of Senate bill G382-the workmen's compensa­ filed in support of House bill 1D7G5, granting increase of pension tion bill; to the Committee on the Judiciary. to William C. Stair, One hundred and seventh Pennsylvania Also, petition of Retail Cutlers' Association of New York and Veteran Volunteers, a resident of the National Home, Washing­ vicinity, urging support of bill for abolition of coupons and ton County, State of Tennessee ; to tlle Committee on Pensions. trading stnmps; to the Committee on Interstate ancl Foreign By l\1r. LAFFERTY : Petition of I1. 1\1. Karpcntur and others, Commerce. of the State of Oregon, and Mrs. Elizabetll Riebhoff and otllers, Also, petition of R. H. Burns, of Brooklyn, N. Y., for passage of Portland, and W. J. Hunter and others, of Lents, Portland, of Senate bill 59[i5 for the relief of ·certain retired officers of and Hillsdale, Si'.lte of Oregon, favoring pnrcel-post system; to the Navy and Marine Corps; to the Committee on Naval Affairs. the Committee o:i the Post Office and Post Roads. Also, petition of the M~rchants' Association of New York, for .Also, petition of Frank J. Bradley and others, of Long Creek, legislation to promote the efficiency of the Public Health and Oreg., favoring parcel-post law, and of rr. R. Van Slyke and Marine-Hospitnl Service; to the Committee on Interstate and others, of Freewater, Oreg., against passage· of parcel-post law · Foreign Commerce. to the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads. ' Also, petition of the Chamber of Commerce of Pittsburgh, Pa., Also, petition of D. S. Kent and others, of Union, Oreg., for protesting against House bill 21292; to the Committee on Inter­ the passage of bill prohibiting gambling in farm products, etc. · state and Foreign Commerce. to the Committee on Agriculture. ' Also, petitions of the Ohio Humane Society and Broome By Mr. l\IcMORRAN: Resolutions of the Grauel Traverse Lin­ County (N. Y.) Humane Society, for enactment of House bill coln Club, of Traverse City, Mich., against the proposed use of 17222; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. the waters of Lake Michigan for sanitary .purposes ; to the By l\fr. CRAGO: Petitions of Granges Nos. 1103 and 1438, Committee on Rivers and Harbors. Patrons of Husbandry, for enactment of House bill 10133, pro­ By Mr. 11:1AHER: Memorial of the Chamber of Commerce of viding for n governmental system of postal express ; to the Com­ the State of New York, relative to operation of the Panama mittee on Interstate ancl Foreign Commerce. Canal; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. lly l\Ir. DANIE!, A. DRISCOLL: Memorial of the Chamber of Also, memorial of tqe Chamber of Commerce of the State of Commerce of the State of New York, for enactment of House bill New York, urging creation of a Federal commission on industrial 200.14, for the improyement of the foreign service;· to the Com­ relations; to the Committee on Rules. mittee on Foreign Affairs. Also, memorial of the Chamber of Commerce of the State of Also. memorial of the Chamber of Commerce of the State of New York, for enactment of House bill 20044, for the improve­ New York, for the creation of a Federal commission on indus­ ment of the foreign service ; to the Committee on Foreign tri n I re In tions ; to the Committee on Rules. Affairs. Also, memorial of the Amateur Athletic Union, for appoint­ Also, memorial of the Chamber of Commerce of the State of ment of a commissioner to represent the United States at the New York, for amending the laws relating to navigation ; to tlle corning Olympian championships; to the Committee on Foreign Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries. Affairs. Also, memorial of the Amateur Athletic Union, for nppoint­ Also, petition of Division No. 382, Brotherhood of Locomotive ment of a commissioner to represent the United States at the Engineers of Buffalo, N. Y., for enactment of House bill 20487; coming Olympian championships; to the Committee o,n Foreign to the Committee on the Judiciary. Affairs. Also, petition of Chafee Grange, No. 987, Patrons of Hus­ Also, petition of Local No. 14, United Hatters of North bandry, against reducing the special tax on oleomargarine col­ Ame1:icn, of Newark, N. J., for retirement of civil-service cm· ored in imitation of butter; to the Committee on Agriculture. ployeeB; to the Committee on Reform in the Civil Service. By l\Ir. .MICHAEL E. DRISCOLL: Resolutions of the regis­ By .Mr. 1\fARTIN of South Dakot[l: Petition of St. Joseph's tration committee of the Metropolitan Association of the Ama­ Catholic Society of Farmer, S. Dale, in regard to measures re­ teur Athletic Union, held in New York City April 4, 1912, ask­ lating to Catholic Indian mission interests ; to the Committee ing that a representative be appointed to represent the United on In