Test of Our Vision: a Conversation
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The Bishan Project is one of China’s boldest social experiments in recent years. For six years – from 2010 to 2016 – the rural reconstruction and practical utopian commune project ran its course in Bishan, a small village in the Anhui Province. The invitations the project received for exhibition and presentation abroad incited a national 01/15 debate in China. ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊThe texts collected in Ou Ning’s Utopia in Practice: Bishan Project and Rural Reconstruction (2020) describe and criticize the social problems caused by China’s overzealous urbanization process. These discourses on contemporary agrarianism and agritopianism resist the doctrines of modernism and Hou Hanru and Ou Ning developmentalism that have dominated China for more than a century, and respond to a global desire for alternative social solutions – in theory Test of Our and action – to today’s environmental and political crises.1 Vision: A ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊFrom May 25–29, Ou Ning and Hou Hanru carried out the following conversation about the Conversation book on WeChat – between Briançon, Provence- Alpes-Cte d’Azur, France, and Jingzhou, Hubei Province, China. ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ*** ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊHou Hanru: Hi, Ou Ning! In this very strange and challenging lockdown period, I had the chance to read through most of your new book. It’s a very timely contribution to the current need for reflection on the difficulty of continuing to live in a world that has been so dominated and g transformed by “globalization” and urbanization. n i N There is a global tendency to “return” to nature – u O to the countryside – and also to the “local.” (In d n particular, Rem Koolhaas and AMO’s recent a u r exhibition “Countryside, The Future” at the n a Guggenheim may trigger discussions on the H u topic.) At the same time, doubts and o H Ê “corrections” offered to the modernization 0 2 model, as well as new values brought on by the 0 2 n r pandemic, may constitute a “timely rain.” o i e t b a Renewed interest in the countryside might also s m r e e v be turned into a superficial “fashion.” Your v o n n o experiments in Bishan, which lasted for years, C — A were very down-to-earth and even “prophetic.” 3 : 1 n 1 Sometimes their “persistent” idealism was o i # s l i radical. Their value should not be limited to a V n r r u fashionable discussions. u O o j f ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊIn many ways, as a matter of fact, this x o u t l s f notion of “returning to the origin” is impossible. e - e T Not only is returning impossible, but the “origin” itself has never really existed! What has existed and continues to exist is history, with all sorts of diversities of how human beings live in the world by transforming it and inscribing the process into memory. There have always been entanglements between idealism and realism, between utopianism and “real life.” With the inspiration from the legacy of anarchism, you tried to 11.16.20 / 16:03:09 EST 02/15 The mind map of Bishan Project by Ou Ning for the exhibition “Art and China after 1989: Theater of the World,” Guggenheim Museum, 2017-2018. Designed by Xiaoma + Chengzi, 2017. 11.16.20 / 16:03:09 EST mobilize public awareness toward embracing of agriculture, the depression of the rural area, social equality, and encouraged independent the atomization of farmers, and the “upside initiatives to realize their own “selves.” down” urban-rural relationship. Some of these “Returning” to the countryside here is about a intellectuals advocate for “rural reconstruction” kind of one-to-one dialogue to enlighten to carry out social reform. everyone’s potentiality, especially for those who have been categorized as peasants and farmers, At least in China, the countryside has already who are often stuck at the bottom of modern 03/15 received and digested shifting crises passed societal structures. If the topic of the along from the cities, for example when the two countryside is now fashionable, and therefore, international financial crises occurred in 1997 another excuse for consumption, then this and 2008. In other words, the countryside has “return” could become a double punishment for long been a “landing site” for crisis those already living in the countryside – people transformation. This did not start with the who stand the risk of enduring more exploitation current pandemic at all. My writings and and ideological injustice. How do you think your practices may have boosted the popularity of book can contribute to the challenge of changing rural issues in public discourse in recent years, this dilemma? especially through a large-scale debate that ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊOu Ning: Hi, Hanru! Thank you for taking the unfolded in China in 2014. This particular time to read my manuscript and for starting this instance overflowed the circle of rural research dialogue. In fact, the countryside already and reconstruction, and turned it into a national became a “fashion” in the decade before the “clamor.” However, as the collected writings in Covid-19 outbreak. This has been one reaction to my book show, I was alert from the beginning to the problems of over-urbanization. People regard the “gentrification” of the countryside – that is, the countryside as a destination to escape the how the urban middle class poured into, urban problems of overcrowding, air pollution, occupied, and consumed the countryside. This fierce competition for job opportunities, and made for a “population reshuffle” rather than a educational resources. Of course, there are also solution to the depopulation problem in the intellectuals who pay attention to the bankruptcy countryside. I think that the recent arrivals and The Bishan Supply and Marketing Cooperative, 1970s. Courtesy of Cultural Center of Yi County. Ê 11.16.20 / 16:03:09 EST the indigenous villagers should live and work ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊThe Chinese quarantined at home under the together to establish an intersubjectivity. impact of the new pandemic would still be However, in the debate, which was taken out of frightened by the return of problems with the context at that time, the opposition completely “food reserve.”2 And the Showa Agricultural ignored this idea. Panic in Japan, brought on by the Great ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊWhile preparing for the 2009 Shenzhen and Depression of 1929, was one of the major Hong Kong Bi-City Biennale of triggers for Japan to launch the Pacific War. Urbanism\Architecture, I discussed the concept 04/15 Saneatsu Mushanokōji, a Japanese writer who of “ruralism” with Rem Koolhaas. I invited him founded Atarashiki-mura (“New Village,” an and Hans Ulrich Obrist to host the “Shenzhen intentional community) just after WWI, and Marathon” conversation, which also included participated in the “Agrarian Union” movement rural issues. The “Countryside, The Future” before WWII, wrote on a memorial pole in the exhibition that Koolhaas researched and village of Moroyama in 1953: “There is no better prepared for years, whose opening coincided way to keep me alive than this, I will take this with the outbreak of the pandemic, will way.”3 This may explain the “persistence” of the undoubtedly deepen people’s interest in this utopianists. In order to “stay alive,” we really topic worldwide. The exhibition shows the radical need to be able to imagine the future. changes to the rural landscape in different global ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊHHR: Your interest in the countryside may regions under the neoliberal economy, the have derived from your experience visiting the potentiality of “nonurban” land resources, and village of San Yuan Li, and subsequent research the possibilities that new biotechnology and AI on the social evolution there.4 The emergence technologies bring to agriculture. It also and multiplication of urban villages in the 1990s produces a strong feeling that the European not only produced a new urban texture and architect has great ambitions and surging architectural typologies of the “urban-rural momentum to open up a “new world,” without fringe,” but also gave rise to a mixture and, any sense of the crisis of agrarianism that Asian simultaneously, class differentiation and conflict regions have long been anxious about and are between immigrants (migrant workers) and struggling to maintain. aborigines (native farmers who lost their land but A page from Ou Ning, Bishan Commune: How to Start Your Own Utopia,Ê2010.ÊMoleskine sketchbook, 108 pages, 13 x 21cm, heavy acid-free paper. 11.16.20 / 16:03:09 EST 05/15 A film screening part of “Screen Nostalgia,” 2011 Bishan Harvestival. Photo: Hu Xiaogeng, 2011. 11.16.20 / 16:03:09 EST 06/15 The villagersÊhelpedÊto install the “Coal and Ice” exhibition in 2012 Yixian International Photo Festival. Photo: Sun Yunfan. 11.16.20 / 16:03:09 EST who, in some cases, benefitted from land sales). urban village was once diagnosed as a “cancer” In this new type of social relationship, an in the eyes of the municipal government, but we unprecedented “autonomous region of urban- made an experimental documentary film to rural integration” was formed. Did this kind of demonstrate its social value. Being in San Yuan research stimulate your interest in “autonomy” Li also inspired my further studies of rural and “communes”? The return of migrant workers society. I wanted to find out about its genes and has brought these experiences back into the different variations. Why did it decay in one wider rural area anew. What inspiration has this 07/15 place, and survive with tenacity in another? This had on the popular push for urbanization, or was the starting point for my later move to the more accurately “townization” (chengzhenhua), countryside. Of course, it is not for seclusion in in recent years? Does this also mean that the nature, it is “self-enlightenment.” Thank you for direction of your experiment of “activating rural providing such an accurate statement.