CORRECTED VERSION

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE

Inquiry into economic contribution of ’s culturally diverse population

Mildura – 22 March 2004

Members

Mr B. N. Atkinson Ms M. V. Morand Mr R. H. Bowden Mr N. F. Pullen Mr H. F. Delahunty Mr A. G. Robinson Mr B. J. Jenkins

Chair: Mr A. G. Robinson Deputy Chair: Mr B. N. Atkinson

Staff

Executive Officer: Mr R. Willis

Witness

Cr P. Byrne, Mayor, Rural City of .

22 March 2004 Economic Development Committee 20 The CHAIR — Thank you very much for making yourself available. As you know, the Economic Development Committee has been given the task of undertaking an inquiry into the economic contribution of Victoria’s culturally diverse population. We are obliged to present to the Parliament by the end of September a report with some recommendations. You will have seen the terms of reference. The committee has advertised for submissions. We have received some, but we were of the view that it was important we came out to regional Victoria and got some first-hand perspectives from people who live in regional Victoria. Your evidence today is being recorded by Hansard. You are protected in anything that you say by parliamentary privilege. I invite you to make some opening comments on the terms of reference as you understand them. I understand that the issue of labour shortages and how immigration historically has dealt with that is one of some significance in these parts. I would be happy if you talk to that or anything else you would like to and then we will fire some questions at you in the time available.

Cr BYRNE — Thank you for that, Chair. I notice that you have people from the Mildura Harvest Labour Office coming along at 1 o’clock. You will hear all about labour matters from them and I do not want to impinge on what they will say. Tom Crouch, who is the harvest labour coordinator, is the deputy mayor of Mildura. He and his crew are well on top of that issue. I note, however, that 13 illegal immigrants were arrested at Swan Hill on the weekend. I understand, from inquiries I made this morning, they were all working. That is an indicator of the sorts of problems that the harvest labour office will no doubt tell you about.

I can say that I sat here in this ballroom on Friday afternoon at a seminar conducted by the Commonwealth Bank. I sat on a panel with their senior economist, Michael Workman, in front of an audience of, I think, 150 business people from the district to talk about economic development. I must admit that I wondered if I was going to feel like the gentleman who jumped off the Spirit of Tasmania the other night into Bass Strait — a bit out of my depth — but I turned out not to be because I have lived here all my life, I am 66 and I know what makes the place tick.

The figures from the Commonwealth Bank senior economist were very interesting. I note from the Area Consultative Committee submission that they quote the Mildura Rural City Council as putting our population at 48 000-something. Those are Australian Bureau of Statistics figures. My view very, very strongly is that they are out of date. They are really not relevant to the region and the Commonwealth Bank economist reinforced what I am saying by saying that they understand that the population of this region is now somewhere close to 70 000 people. It makes it a very significant regional centre.

We had the first combined meeting with the Council a fortnight ago because the current mayor of Wentworth shire and his councillors and I and my councillors group look on this as a region and we see us growing together. If you look at the place from that point of view you get the idea that it is a very, very large and important population centre in Victoria. That some of it happens to be over the river, my comment is: so what? We all benefit from that.

The way I put it is that the river does not divide us, it unites us. The Area Consultative Committee material talks about the Barkinji Biosphere and the Enviromission tower. I do not know whether Don mentioned those things to you but they are developments that will take place over the river. They will be very significant as a driver of employment and tourism and we will all benefit from that.

One of the problems in Mildura is that for state government purposes we are part of the Loddon- region. As somebody said to me on the phone from the other day when I was complaining bitterly about the closing of our Mallee tenancy advice service in Mildura, ‘But the people can pop down to Bendigo’. It takes me 1 1 4 ⁄2 hours to drive to Adelaide from here; it takes anyone 4 ⁄2 hours to drive to Bendigo from here. Alternatively, you fly to Melbourne, drive back to Bendigo or get a train from Melbourne to Bendigo. The Loddon-Mallee region extends from nearly as far south as Sunbury to Lindsay Point, which you will recall is in the far north-west of our municipality.

In my view and in the view of my council and a lot of other people, that is holding back development in this area. We need to be treated as a region in our own right. The federal and state governments ought to have a primary policy position to encourage population growth in regional centres and if they do that I would expect that we would be treated as a region on both sides of the river. I will leave my notes about this with you but my view is that if that happens, if state and federal governments became quite serious and had a primary policy position that population in the regions was important and that the syndrome of migrants going to the capital cities and staying there was

22 March 2004 Economic Development Committee 21 inappropriate, then we would get somewhere. But in my view it has got to be government driven. The Victorian government’s current policy in relation to regional development is very nice and I encourage that but I think the commonwealth government has to be the driver.

Those are just some of my views about the future of this region. It is one of the fastest growing regions in Australia. From a population point of view we are increasing at 1.8 per cent. The unemployment rate is below the national average. I have already given you the population figures. I am interested to see the Area Consultative Committee’s material because it again quotes the Mildura Rural City Council’s view of the ethnic diversity of this place, and the figures are fine but I think they are well out of date.

The latest wave of migration has been from Turkey. We have the largest population per capita of Turks in Australia outside Sydney for the year. There is a Turkish primary and secondary school here and a Turkish mosque. There are three groups of Turks, as there are at least three groups of every other migrant group you care to name — the secular Turks, the Moslem Turks, who do not like each other very much but they all hate the third group who are the Kurds. So they are the latest wave of migrants and now what is happening is another surge of migration from Tonga and the South Pacific.

The CHAIR — What is bringing the Turks to Mildura?

Cr BYRNE — As I understand it, what brought them initially to Mildura was a couple of Turks who came here because they grow dried fruit in Turkey — they are one of our main competitors. Some of them came on a tour, saw the potential and stayed here. A couple of families bought horticultural properties. I remember this because I was a lawyer up here for 35 years and I used to appear in court for various people growing special crops, Gradually the population started to increase and we are now onto the second and third generation of the migrant group and they are an economic driver for this community. A lot of them are in business; they are entrepreneurial people; they have horticultural properties; they are getting involved in table grapes and things other than dried fruits and it is the old Italian story being repeated.

The CHAIR — That is fascinating, and it is fortuitous in the sense that a couple of Turkish families had an exposure to Mildura and thought they could get into the dried fruit business here. They did and it has grown up around them?

Cr BYRNE — Yes.

The CHAIR — And that is spread over a couple of generations?

Cr BYRNE — Yes, I recall the first major group of Turks arriving in Mildura back in the late 1970s. Unfortunately, some of them were inappropriate members of the community and ended up being deported but having said that, that is just what happens and other families came and stayed on and they are now an integral part of our community. We have a mayoral election coming up tomorrow and in the spirit of reconciliation I have invited every ethnic group in Mildura to come along and be represented, including the Turkish community because we are very ethnically diverse here. You have just seen the result of the incredible entrepreneurial spirit of migrants from the last person who gave evidence to you.

Mr WILLIS — And that migration feeds off itself, does it not? So the new influx of Turks that you are getting is because there is a good Turkish community here? Do you think if there was not a Turkish community here already that you would be getting that current influx?

Cr BYRNE — I do not believe so. I believe that we really need a federal government primary policy position that says, ‘We believe that the business of migrants going to Melbourne and Sydney is not appropriate’ and that the regions have plenty of room — as we have — and plenty of ability to grow and a good lifestyle. I am also on the hospital committee and one of our major problems is getting medical practitioners and staff, and you will have heard this, and you will hear it wherever you go. But when people come to this and other regional areas and stay for two years or more, they tend to stay and if the commonwealth government, with the cooperation of the states, had a policy position that encouraged migration to the regions, then I think the flow would start.

The other problem is the Loddon-Mallee syndrome. Our public servants are in Bendigo; decisions are made in Bendigo. I am not criticising Bendigo, but you know what I mean. I believe regions like this could well be picked out as growth centres and people encouraged to come here, but it takes government policy to do that.

22 March 2004 Economic Development Committee 22 The CHAIR — I just want to follow up on that. I am wondering whether in your lifetime you have seen the practical effect of that shift. You talk about the need for the federal government to play that role with the support of the states. I think it was probably the case back in the 1960s or perhaps the early 1970s where migrants arrived and very soon after their arrival they would be in Mildura. Now I think the points of arrival in Melbourne are three suburban locations and the phenomenon is that migrants will tend to stay close to where they first arrived. Is there any talk at council level about having Mildura as a place of first arrival?

Cr BYRNE — I agree with your summation of what is currently happening and that accords with what I said about people tending to stay where they have been for a couple of years. There has been no discussion at council level about making this a place of first arrival. Maybe there should be and maybe we should be lobbying the current federal minister.

I recall, having been here all my life, that in the late 1960s migrants got off a boat, were put on the pickers train in Melbourne with a return train voucher, turned up in Mildura in the middle of February — when the temperature could be 47 degrees — in their suits and were allocated to a horticulturalist to pick grapes. We had what is called a fruit block, a horticultural property, and your main job over the first couple of days was getting some of them to hospital because they simply could not cope and it did not work. But the idea is interesting. You have already had Paramjeet talking to you earlier — another example of when people get work here and stay here, they tend to want to be here, a great place to raise a family.

Mr DELAHUNTY — I was just going to build on that. These days people have mobility — and I know that transport is a bit of an issue here. We heard from Paramjeet about the Newcomers Club. If we get people to come to Mildura or any regional centre, how do we get them to stay there? Do you have any ideas on how we can do that? You cannot nail them to the floor. How do we get them to stay here and not go back into centres such as Sydney and Melbourne? As you said, you have a very culturally diverse group here. My knowledge of it is that you have various clubs and support networks. A lot of other towns and communities do not have them and yet we hear that you still have a labour shortage, particularly when there are opportunities here. Can you expand on that?

Cr BYRNE — I think the community organisations are very important for newcomers, but I think that is only part of the story. I think you need services provided. If you had this designated as a regional centre and had state and commonwealth government offices opening rather than closing then you have provided to migrants services that they need.

I will give you an example of what I am talking about. I had lunch with a group of Iraqi refugees a couple of months ago. They had come from a camp. What happened to them was quite horrific, but that is another issue. They ended up in Mildura. Some of them had gained permanent residency, others temporary and others were on temporary protection visas. Their immediate need which they expressed to me was a place to meet. They were scattered all over the place. The community had kicked in and they had accommodation. I wrote an article for the paper asking for people to donate things and they did and there was a wonderful community response. The basic need for the people was somewhere to meet together and to learn English. So, through one of my councillors who runs Mallee Family Care, a huge welfare organisation, Cr Vernon Knight, we got them a meeting place and they are now conducting English classes. That infrastructure was not there and nobody knew about it until they happened to see me at a barbecue — not a typical barbecue for these people, who wondered what the devil they were doing there, I suspect, eating chops and tomato sauce amongst the flies. Anyway, if there is infrastructure available I think it is a tremendous help to groups of people like that. The Turks were very self-sufficient. They looked at themselves because they have their own family groups, but for the Iraqi people it was a different story.

Mr ATKINSON — Local government obviously provides quite a diverse range of community services and obviously also has an interplay in community services with other government agencies. Have you looked at the cost aspects of catering in an area like this for new immigrant groups and the social infrastructure, if you like, that you need for those people?

Cr BYRNE — No, at council level we have not, because to date we have not known they were coming. I go back again to this theme of mine: if we were designated as a migrant receivable area, for example, if the commonwealth and states made that decision, then we as a council would certainly be looking at infrastructure needed to support those new arrivals. At the moment it is completely ad hoc.

22 March 2004 Economic Development Committee 23 Mr ATKINSON — Just on that basis, though, from your observations — I do not want to put words into your mouth — would you have the view that the net benefit was manifestly in favour of the broader community of Mildura and Victoria, or that there is a benefit but there are also substantial costs that are reducing the benefit? Our inquiry is about economic contribution, so because you are involved in local government and have lived in this community you are probably in a good position to make an observation as to some of the community cost of actually accommodating new communities or the establishment of new communities until they get on their feet.

Cr BYRNE — I think the net benefit would far outweigh the downside, if there is a downside. I mean, the council is currently providing 78 different services, can you believe? We raise about a third of our revenue from rates and charges, we are mendicants to the state and commonwealth governments for the rest of our $66 million budget, and that is the way local government works. I think this community is community-minded enough to bear the impost of providing services for new immigrant groups, because we all know by now about the net benefit.

The CHAIR — And the city has a great history of embracing immigration?

Cr BYRNE — It does.

The CHAIR — So it makes it, perhaps, different from other parts of the state that do not have that collective experience?

Cr BYRNE — I think that is probably right. The history of this place has been one of immigrants. Initially they were from England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. I said in a recent article that when I grew up here in the 1960s this place was as bland as a suet pudding: everyone looked the same; the only difference was religious. Then the waves of migration started and the net benefit has been for all to see.

Mr DELAHUNTY — Are we still seeing that trend continue, though? It is probably anecdotal, but are you still seeing the benefits of attracting migrants through cultural diversity, or are you seeing it slowing down? You have talked about the Turks and the Tongans. Are we getting others? As a percentage of your population, is it still increasing?

Cr BYRNE — Yes, it is, and it is happening before our very eyes. If you look at Robinvale, there are something like 47 different ethnic groups there. They are just upriver from us, an hour away. They have a very big Vietnamese community who are starting to come to Mildura. It is starting and I can see it about to happen. They will be, without question in my view, the next wave of immigrants to this area. They will start off in a fairly low-key way, they will be working on a horticultural properties, somebody will buy a block, their friends will do likewise, and the next thing you know you will have a Vietnamese association. There will be problems, as there always are, but the net benefit to the community will be very, very substantial.

Mr JENKINS — Firstly, as a former mayor of a regional city I can sympathise with the difficulties that local government faces trying to do something by itself. Having talked about the Turkish migration and the number of people of Turkish background coming in because they saw a similarity in their opportunities here in the crops, it would seem to me to be a great economic advantage to have somebody coming over who has obviously been marketing the same sorts of fruits for years in their markets — a competitor coming over. Is that understanding that they would have of their markets overseas been formalised in any way; have they worked with the economic development unit of the council or anybody else to try to tease that out more? Or have they transplanted their skills locally and used them locally rather than in those contacts that they might have?

Cr BYRNE — I think the latter rather than the former. Turkey is a major competitor of Australia in dried vine fruits. Its labour costs are so significantly lower than ours that it is very difficult for the local industry to compete. Turkey and its dried fruit industry is looked on as a major competitor, as is Greece and as was Afghanistan before what happened there happened. But the dried fruit industry is only part of it. The dried fruit industry here is no longer the agricultural driver of this community; far from it. We crush 400 000 tonnes of wine grapes here per annum — about one-quarter of the total Australian crush. Table grapes are a huge part of our economy. I heard Don Carrazza talking about tourism. What is bringing tourists to the community is major events instead of mum and dad tourism. They used to come by train and car in their hundreds of thousands, but that is all finished; it is cheaper to go overseas. But we have 222 major events — either district, statewide or national major events — for 2004. That is what is bringing people to the area including international tourists. We have the world hot air ballooning championships starting here in June. There will be people from all over the world; this place will be booked out.

22 March 2004 Economic Development Committee 24 Mr JENKINS — Again in relation to the need to get the federal government in particular to look at its policy settings for migration to regional areas, the Regional Cities Victoria Group has been trying to do some work to get that next step, lobbying federal and state politicians. Is that continuing?

Cr BYRNE — Yes, it is. There is a regional cities group meeting coming up fairly soon. Unfortunately I will be in another place and cannot go to it, but that is part of the brief for that regional cities group. There is a limit to what it can do because they are regional cities within Victoria. It is an intrastate group. I have spoken to our federal member about this suggestion that migration to the regions is going to have to be at least driven by federal government primary policy in line with state government cooperation and he agrees with me, but it has yet to happen.

Mr JENKINS — I am from the Latrobe Valley and we have utilised the sister cities concept as a way to build on the cultures that have already played a role in the Latrobe Valley and building those networks to look at economic opportunities. Does Mildura do that and, if so, to what extent?

Cr BYRNE — We have a sister city relationship with Kumatori in Japan. I have a very strong personal view about the value of those relationships: I think they are a waste of time. I refused to go to Kumatori this year. I see it as the Japanese federal government pouring money into their equivalent of local government to create relationships and when they can call up the obligation, they do it like in the International Whaling Commission, so I have a cynical view about it. It is wonderful for the schoolchildren who go, but there has never been one whit of economic benefit to this community.

However, that is not to say that those relationships have not got potential benefits and I will just mention that our economic development unit has been contacted by La Trobe University’s Mildura campus, which has a very close relationship with Kunming in China — a city in Yunnan Province, which is small by Chinese standards with a population of 3 million, but Yunnan Province has a population of 40 million people. The economic development unit and our chief executive officer are going to Kunming shortly because La Trobe University has a very strong presence there in an agricultural-based university and the hope and expectation is — and that is the only reason we are prepared to be in it — that Chinese graduate students will come to Mildura and become immersed in agriculture and industry here. There will be an exchange and we will get benefit from it. We will get benefit in teaching and our connection with La Trobe University’s local campus — and there is another issue of placements there which I will not go into and which we have spoken to Minister Brendan Nelson about. In my view that sort of thing is likely to have very real benefits for this community.

The Japanese sister-city relationship which has been going on for quite some years now has never brought us any economic benefits, but it is nice for them and it is nice for those who go, and they are coming out here this year and I will be ultra polite and we will look after them and do all the things that we have to do, but the Chinese connection with Kunming is more likely to bring benefit to our community because it is driven by La Trobe University’s interest in our community and not by the national Japanese government creating a web or network of relationships worldwide.

The CHAIR — I want to finish with just two questions; firstly, regarding temporary protection visa holders. There has been a lot of talk in country areas about TPV holders filling positions in abattoirs and fruit picking. Is that something that is happening to any extent in Mildura?

Cr BYRNE — It is to a small degree. One of the Iraqis with whom I had lunch at the function I mentioned earlier is a temporary protection visa holder. He is a master of mechanical engineering who taught at Baghdad University, and I have checked this out. He said to me, ‘I want to stay here, but I cannot and I know that I am going to be sent back’ — and these are his words — ‘but before they kill me when I go back I want to make a monument to Mildura because my wife and children are here; they have residency now and I am so grateful that I want to do something for your community’. Another temporary protection visa holder from Iraq has started a business providing labour for horticultural properties. It would be wonderful for our community if they could get permanent residency because they are just two of the people I know about; and they would each in their own way be able to make a very good to contribution to our community. The gentleman who is running the labour hire service has run into some, what he considers to be, insurmountable problems, but they have been got over through the local community legal centre where I used to work. I referred him there and so he is on his way and he is providing a good service, but his future is clouded. I have a very strong view about that issue too!

22 March 2004 Economic Development Committee 25 The CHAIR — I think the local federal member has also spoken about that.

Cr BYRNE — I agree with him.

The CHAIR — There is another comment I want to get from you, and I know we are over time. One of our earlier witnesses, Bruno Moras, suggested that the solution to the region’s labour shortages would ultimately be short-term work visas, so we would have foreign nationals coming in on 11-monthly visas, and that is something that I think was put to this committee the last time it visited Mildura. Is that something that is broadly supported across the council and across the region?

Cr BYRNE — I think it would be. I think Bruno is correct when he says that. If visas were issued for one year for the purposes of employment that would help this district immensely. It would stop the business of 13 illegal immigrants being swooped on — they are always being swooped on — but that is what happened at the weekend at Swan Hill just upriver from here. There is a need. Tom Crouch and his group will no doubt have a view about that, but my opinion is that Bruno Moras is spot on.

Mr DELAHUNTY — I just want to clarify something. You said they need a place to meet. Is it a religious place to meet?

Cr BYRNE — No. The women in the group were bereft of a meeting place. They did not know one another, they were scattered throughout the district and they just wanted to become a more cohesive group and have their children get to know one another and to learn English. So we now have them learning English. They have an English teacher coming from Melbourne at great expense.

Mr DELAHUNTY — Have they?

Cr BYRNE — Yes. It has to be that way because the services are not provided, and that is what I am on about. Bruno Moras is another classic example, since you have mentioned his name, of the impetus that migrants can give to this community. His parents are from Treviso in northern Italy, where Stefano di Pieri comes from.

The CHAIR — Thank you very much for your time, Peter. It has been terrific. We have got an awful lot out of you in half an hour or so.

Witness withdrew.

22 March 2004 Economic Development Committee 26