Rawley, Delores 1 Aisis HAWKINS: [00:00] Hi. My name is Aisis Hawkins. I'm 16 years old. Today is February

17th, 2014. We're in Washington, D.C. and I'm here with my grandmother.

DOLORES RAWLEY: Good evening. My name is Delores [Rawley?]. I'm 57 years old.

Today's date is the 17th , 2014. My location is Washington, D.C. I'm here with my

granddaughter, Aisis Hawkins.

AH: So Grandma, where did you grow up at?

DR: I grew up in the Washington, D.C. area in the Kenilworth project areas.

AH: So what was your childhood like? DR: Oh well, coming up, you know, they called us military brats. My father was a s serviceman and we didn't have it real, real hard. You know what I'm saying? We never

had it real hard, and we traveled a little with my father and my mother. pAnd after my parents broke up it was a little too hard, but it wasn't that hard becauser she also met a very, very nice gentleman; his name was [Johnny Alsman?]o and he stopped right in like a true father, he did. And he took it up to take care of us and he really adored you --

AH: Me?

DR: Yes -- no. He really adored your mother a lot.C AH: Oh, I was going to say. y DR: You know, he really adored hisr mother, I guess just as much as I adored you. But you know, we really didn't have it real, real hard. We didn't never had it real, real hard. AH: What was the hardesto moments you had when you were growing up? DR: When I got intot the drug scene. That was my hardest moment of my life I think, when I got intoS the drug scene. But when I was into that scene it wasn't like I had to live the life like a lot of young ladies had to go out there and do this and do that for it. I never had to Rawley, Delores 2 live that way. You know what I'm saying? I always took care of my kids, kept food on

the table, made sure they went to school, made sure they had the proper clothes and all

that. I don't know, but that's the type of mother I was. That was the type of mother that I

was.

AH: If you could do everything again, what would you do differently?

DR: Not use drugs.

AH: Not use drugs?

DR: Not use drugs. Nope. Not at all. AH: That was a hard moment in your life? s DR: Yes, it was very hard. Very hard.

AH: Why? p DR: Because it just was. You know, I mean, waking up every morningr sick. You know, I mean, I never had to -- like I say, I never had to get out thereo and do anything for it because it was always plentiful for me. It was there. You know. But if I had to do it all

over again, no I would not. It wasn't nothing that I was proud of, God knows. I wasn't

proud of it at all. C AH: What did you think your life would ybe like when you were older? Like, when you was younger, how did you think yourr life would be now? DR: Well coming up, I used to always say -- as a little girl I used to always say I wanted to be a nurse, a computero operator, something like that. But a nurse I could never be because I don't like the tsight of blood or none of that. Computer operator, I could have probably been.S If I could do it all over again, I wouldn't have came out of school in the 11th grade. I would have went on and furthered my education. It was classes. There was places out Rawley, Delores 3 there I could have went, you know, to further, you know, the computer operation career

or something like that, but I didn't.

AH: Do you regret anything?

DR: I just regretted living part of the life that I had to live. I didn't have to live it but I regret,

you know, some of the life that I lived.

AH: Do you wish you could take it back?

DR: Yeah, I wish I could take it back but you know, I can't take it back. We can't take it back.

Can't do that. AH: Who had the biggest influence on your life? s DR: You know what, Aisis, sometimes if it weren't for you -- I'm being real. If it wasn't for

you, sometimes -- when I was out there, you know, when your mother hadp you and you came into my life, you know, I don't know. It's just -- I don't know.r You just had a big influence on me. You know, it started me -- if you wasn'to there, I think I would have went and done probably something -- whatever. I don't know. I just loved you so much.

AH: Because I was your first grandchild.

DR: Yeah, my first. And you know, I rememberC telling your mother that, [Ieasha?] if you want to go to college, you can go aheady to college in the D.C. area. You know, I'll take care of Aisis. I would stop whateverr I had to do to take care of you, and I really meant that. But by you being her first, you know, she didn't want to leave you. But I was really serious abouto that, you know? I love all of my grandkids but you was the first. AH: Aww. t DR: I don'tS know. Rawley, Delores 4 AH: What's your favorite memory of me? Think of all your favorite memories of me. It's

like, I'm with you -- we spend everything -- we do everything --

DR: We done everything together. Me being at the hospital seeing you being born.

AH: That's your favorite memory of me?

DR: You know, that was my first memory of you. You know, seeing you being born, Aisis, I

mean, we just done everything. We have pictures. We done everything together,

everything. You know what I'm saying? Mommy ain't really had to do nothing. She was

a great mom, but I really didn't want her to do anything. I just wanted to just keep you underneath of me at all times. I really did. s AH: I was underneath you at all times. I was with you.

DR: I know. I know. I don't regret none of that. I don't regret having you -- pI mean, you just like my very own and still love you. r AH: Aww. Has your life been different than what you imaginedo it would be? DR: Say that again.

AH: Has your life been different than what you imagined it would be?

DR: If my life would have been different? C AH: Has your life been different? Like, ywhen you was little, did you imagine your life being like what it is now? r DR: No. Not really, no. I imagined my life -- I imagined my life being that I was successful. Like I said, a computero operator, a successful nurse. Whatever. You know, I never imagined it wouldt be like this. Which, it wasn't -- like I said, I never lived bad or a hard life orS none of that. I never lived like some of these females and stuff had to live out there. I never really lived like that because I had a strong family. It was 11 of us. We Rawley, Delores 5 were there for each other and all that, you know what I'm saying? We had a strong

family. So you know, it was a lot of things that I didn't have to go out there and do. You

know, that I didn't have to go out there and do.

AH: What do you think has been the hardest moment between me and you? We don't have

hard moments.

DR: You not being there.

AH: I mean, I've been there.

DR: I mean, don't you know when your mother and your father used to come and take you, you know, time for you to go home, I ain't really want you to go. I always would ssay, I'll keep her. I'll keep her. You all don't have to take her. You know, I was very selfish

when it came to you. And I was. I was very, very selfish when it came pto you. AH: Because I'm always right -- r DR: Because I would stop anything to keep you close to me. o I mean, I would. It was just like I was selfish.

AH: You were selfish?

DR: Very selfish. C AH: Aww. y DR: And I think sometimes I'm realr selfish. But you know what? You don't come around like you used to no more. AH: I don't come aroundo like I used to? DR: Not no more. t You done got 16 years old and you just, you just cut me off. AH: I don'tS cut you off. I still -- I come over your house every week. Well I used to come over every weekend, but friends, like I said. Rawley, Delores 6 DR: I know you have friends. You know, but I need --

AH: You know you're always going to be --

DR: I don't know, I just be lonely because I'm so used to having you there and I'm just -- you

know, we just always been together. I have other grandkids but they're not --

AH: Me.

DR: I'm not -- well they're not you, but they're not old enough to come like you can come and

go, you can come and go, you can come and go. But I have to get used to it.

AH: I know, it's like -- DR: I don't know what you're going to do when you go [10:00] to college. s AH: I know. You going to miss me?

DR: That's why I wish you would go to college here. p AH: Why? r DR: I don't know, so you can be around so I can see you everyo day. It's not going to be like when you be gone.

AH: I don't want to go in college in D.C. I don't want to be here.

DR: I know, I know. I know, you spoke on it. C AH: You've got to promise that you're goingy to call me every day. DR: I will. r AH: That's what mom did. DR: I might be on the traino or a bus to come and see you. AH: What's the bestt moments between me and you? Like, do you -- what's the best moments that youS had between me and you? Rawley, Delores 7 DR: I remember when you momma used to work down the museum. You remember that

museum? That museum? You don't remember it because you was a small -- you was a

baby. Oh boy, I used to love taking you down there, you know at your mother's job? Oh

man, I used to love it because it was everything there for you. It was everything. It was

like a little lab. It was like a little lab. The kids could put on their little -- what you call

them? Little lab jackets and all that, and that little museum taught the kids a lot of things.

And I mean, I meant to bring them pictures with me. But, I think them was some of the

moments. The birthday parties and stuff. We used to -- I mean, you know, Aisis, we done everything together. Everything. I don't think there's something we haven't sdone together. We done everything. You know, everything. I remember --

AH: You have any regrets? p DR: -- that little bald head. Oh, I have no regrets when it come to yourr bald head. AH: (laughs) o DR: That was my famous name for her; bald head. I don't have no regrets when it come to

you, Aisis.

AH: Do you have any regrets in general, like in yourC life? So do you have any regrets like in your life, period? y DR: Aisis it goes all the way backr to the same thing. I just -- I have regrets. I mean, I regret lots of things that I've done within my life that I know that I could have been a better person, you know whato I'm saying? You know, I'm not a bad person but I know there's a lot of things I tregret. AH: A badS person? DR: I mean, but it is what it is. I mean, I can't -- there's nothing I can do about it. Rawley, Delores 8 AH: You're not a bad person, you just made --

DR: I can't change.

AH: -- some decisions that wasn't positive.

DR: Yeah, I know.

AH: But you're good to me.

DR: I know. I try to be good to everybody. I do.

F: Delores, would you mind telling Aisis some of the examples of why -- what you regret

and what you wish had been different? DR: Well, Bald Head, I don't know. I just regret -- I regret times when I -- I regret at timess when I could have -- I mean, seriously, I regret times like when I could have been

working and I was out there drugging. I regret times -- sometimes whenp my daughter would ask me would you -- could you keep the kids for me. You rknow, my little grandson, he was born then, and I told her no. You knowo why I told her no? Is because I wanted to go out there and use drugs. You know, I regret all them little moments.

Them's some moments that I could have been spending with my grandkids, you know,

and I regret some of them moments. (cries) CThere's a lot of moments that I regret and I know that I could have done better. y I really could have done better. But like I said, if I could do it all over again, Godr knows I would be -- I just would have done better. But still, I was a good grandmother. Always has been. I always been a good grandmother, a good mother, but I couldo have done better. I could have done better, I could have been better -- thankt you -- and I could have been better, I know I can because I'm a good person.S AH: You're not a bad grandmother. Rawley, Delores 9 DR: (crying) But one thing about my granddaughter; she never turned her back on me. She

never looked down on me, on nothing. That's why I love her so much; she never looked

down on me and she was never ashamed of me or nothing. She was never -- that's why I

love her so much. She never looked down on me. Never.

AH: I ain't want to look down on you because when you was doing that stuff I ain't look at you

like that. Like, you were still my grandmother. I knew what you was doing was wrong,

but at the same token, I knew that no matter what you always still looked at me, you

always still did love me, and like, you was always still there. So it was like -- there was nothing to look down on except for your actions. It's OK, grandma. Is there anythings that you never told me that you want to tell me now?

DR: No, because -- I mean, I never -- anything you asked me, anything -- I neverp lied to you about anything. I never not told you about anything. I mean, I knowr sometimes your moms used to be mad at me sometimes when I just said othings to you that maybe she wanted to say to you --

AH: You were straightforward.

DR: -- like the birds and bees, telling you about sexC and this and that. I just, you know, took upon myself to just say to you, but Iy know you always been a smart young lady, but some street smarts and then smart. r You have to be street smart out here, you know what I'm saying? You have to be that way and I never wanted you to go out there, step out there in the world and just didn'to know. I wanted you to know everything, everything. It wasn't nothing that I tkept from you. I don't know if it might have been wrong or whatever. SomeS of the things I might have said to you. But I felt as though that it was my place to let you know whatever. It was my place to let you know because I loved you just that Rawley, Delores 10 much. I didn't want you to step out there into this world, this big bad world out here.

You know what I’m saying? No, I never wanted you to step out there not knowing,

because this world out here, it's -- hm-hm. My brothers taught me. They taught me the

same way so I'm passing it on. They taught me the same way and there was 11 of us, and

my family taught me the same way. Yes, they did.

AH: Straightforward.

DR: Straightforward.

AH: No cut cards. DR: No cut cards. s AH: Is there something about me that you always wanted to know but never asked?

DR: Mm-hm. p AH: You ask me everything. I tell you everything. I don't think so, dor you? DR: Aisis, I don't know what it could be about you that I don'to know. AH: You know everything. I tell you more than Mommy.

DR: Yes, you do.

AH: (laughs) C DR: Yes, you do. y F: Delores, can you describe Aisisr as a baby (inaudible). DR: Oh, God. She was the most beautifulest little baby, guess what. That's why I called her Bald Head. When sheo was born she had one string of hair sitting on top of her head. She was the most tprettiest baby, God, and I took her out into the world and I'd say, look at her! SAin't she pretty? I was so -- I was just -- I don't know, but she was a beautiful baby. God knows she was. Rawley, Delores 11 F: Delores, do you want to tell her? Say "you." Say "you."

AH: Yes, say "I, you, me."

DR: You.

AH: Yes, say "I." Don't tell -- don't say "she."

DR: Yeah, you, Bald Head, you was the most beautifulest baby that I ever seen. God knows.

One string of hair, bald head.

AH: I have a lot of hair now.

DR: Yeah, you have hair now, but she was beautiful. Yes, you were. You were a beautiful child. I loved you so much, girl. Oh, she was pretty. s AH: (laughs)

DR: Yes, she was. p F: Aisis, do you want to tell your grandmother what your favorite memoryr of her is? AH: My favorite memory? I don't have a favorite memory. oAll of my memories with her is just like, I mean -- my favorite memory of you, it might be -- it's not a favorite. It's a

funny one that I mainly remember, like, when I was -- when me and you used to go to

[Shaw’s on?] when you lived over there on CEastern Avenue, and you came and got me and him with dye and a perm in youry hair. I think -- someone -- I think it was one of my friends, they was like, that's yourr grandmamma? I was like, yeah, that's my grandmother. Why's she got a plastic bag on her head? I don't know, she's just coming to get me. That was a funny memory.o DR: I didn't care. tI was at the beauty shop, and you know, I used to look at my watch right and [S20:00] say, oh my God, it's time to go get them. And I used to tell my beautician, oh, I have to go get my grandkids. I have to go. So I used to get on the bus with a bag Rawley, Delores 12 over my head, not knowing whether my hair was going to fall out or what, but I know I

can't -- I had to go get my grandkids. You know, I had to go get you. I ain't care. I

really didn't care if it fell out or what. I know I had to be there.

AH: Or another memory, 8th grade -- my 8th grade prom, like, because you know you can't

leave your house. You don't like to leave your house. You stay in that house, and I didn't

think you was going to come. And you came to the graduation and I was excited that you

came, too.

DR: Aisis, I try not to miss too many of your -- you know, I try not to miss too many whatever; graduations, proms, whatever. I try not to miss any of them. s AH: I know, (inaudible).

DR: And I didn't, and I'll be there. p AH: You better. r DR: I'll be there. o AH: First person I'll give a ticket to.

DR: Mm-hm. I think -- I used to think that your moms used to get a little jealous sometimes.

AH: She still do get jealous. C DR: Because of our -- how we are. y AH: (inaudible) r DR: That's all right. That's still your daughter. That's still your moms. I ain't going to steal you away like that. o AH: (laughs) t F: AisisS, do you want to tell your grandma what's one of the biggest lessons you learned from her? Rawley, Delores 13 AH: The biggest lesson I learned from her is like -- I mean, the biggest lesson I learned from

you is not to be scared to say nothing, because by you always telling me the truth,

keeping it straightforward, I learned how to like be upfront with people and not to lie,

basically. Just always say it like that, unless I'm scared to say it. Like, if it was you --

not you, but if like Mommy or somebody and I'd obviously be scared to say it.

Eventually I had to say it, but I learned to always -- I always learned from you to always

be better than what you expected your own self to be.

DR: Straight up and forward. AH: You always taught me how to always like, be a better person than you think you are.s And I respect that from you because of what you've been through and all you had left

from everybody was respect. And so, you always told me to like, make psure you respect yourself and make sure you respect others, and always do what's rright. Never let no one tell you what to do. Don't get -- always be a leader not ao follower. DR: That's right.

AH: Because you never know what you can get sucked into and stuff.

DR: But you know what? Right now, sometimesC, you know what, I be so -- when I call your mother and when I call your phone andy you don't answer, or when I call your mother and she say, she's out with her girlfriendsr or whatever, I worry so much. God knows if you out there, I worry so much. I be praying to God, say God, please don't let nothing happen to my grandchild outo there. God, please -- and I be praying so hard until I hear your voice. I be praying.t I know you all go to you all little places. You all be out there eating at yourS little restaurants or whatever, but all I want to know is where you are. That's all I want to know; where you are. Because it worries me. God knows it still bothers me Rawley, Delores 14 because the street -- these streets out here, I'm even afraid to go out there at night now

and I thought I was one of the baddest things that walked the streets, but now I'm actually

scared. God knows, I'm actually scared to be out there. That's all I want you to do is just

contact me. Just let me know where you are.

AH: You always taught me to be safe.

DR: I know, but still. Still. I just want to know. I just want to hear you voice. I want to

make sure you're all right.

AH: That's how I am with you. When you don't be answering, I be terrified. I be like, aw, where she at. s DR: But Aisis, you know where I'm at at all times.

AH: If you at -- if you don't be at home and I try to get in contact with you, I pbe like, where she at? She's not answering her phone. r DR: You know I'm safe though. You know I'm safe. o AH: I hope you are.

DR: You know I'm safe. Trust me, I'm safe. Yep.

F: Delores, you talked -- you guys talked a littleC bit earlier about how Aisis helped you clean up your life and get your life together.y DR: Yes. r F: Was there anything specific to Aisis? Like, what did Aisis do that helped you? DR: You know, one timeo she came to me -- AH: Me. t DR: I’m talkingS to you. Aisis came to me, and you know -- AH: I came to you. Rawley, Delores 15 DR: No, you came -- you came to me. I’m sorry. She -- Aisis came to me and she asked me a

question about --

AH: I asked you a question.

DR: Aisis asked me a question --

AH: Just say "you." Say "you."

DR: OK, you asked me a question about something that she had seen. I didn't know she had

saw it.

AH: I saw it. That you saw. DR: Come on now. I didn't know that she had -- s AH: Say "you." You're talking to me.

DR: You're cutting this off. p AH: (laughs) r F: Just talk to -- talked to Aisis. o AH: Pretend that I just asked you that question.

F: So why don't you ask her? Pretend no one else is here.

DR: OK, I'm getting nervous at the end now. C F: How did I help you get clean -- y AH: How did I help you better yourself,r get clean, when you were doing the things you were doing? DR: Aisis, I guess by someo of the things that you -- one thing I know you saw me do, and God knows thatt really, really hurted me so bad -- and I know you saw me. I never done no needlesS or something like that. I always like, snorted. And I know you saw me. I got up to go to the bathroom and I know you went in there because you're a curious person. I Rawley, Delores 16 know you went in there and checked around and looked because I can tell the way I left

whatever I left. You know what I'm saying? I just said, I can't do this no more. I can't

do this no more. I was talking to my old man and I told him, I can't do this no more. I

said, "I know it's hurting her. I know it's hurting her." And later on that day I seen her.

She was in the bathroom. You was crying. You were crying and I know why you were

crying. I know why you was crying. You know, my mother always told me I was born

with a veil over my face, and I can sense and I felt your pain, and I felt it. God knows, I

felt your pain. You know, and I said, I have to get myself together. I really have to. And I did. I did. I went into a program, for you. I went into a program for you. You sknow. I did it. You know, I did it and then I stopped and I started back again, but I did it. I was

trying. And I done it for you. But Aisis, I am so sorry that I -- what I hadp to carry you through. God knows that I am so sorry. I am so sorry. But I hoper when you live to get my age or get a little older you can look back on what I odid and say, I don't want to be like that. I don't want to go through that. Please don't ever. Please, God knows, please

don't. Please don't because there ain't no fun in it. Please don't. Just don't. Don't do it.

F: Aisis, do you remember that day? C AH: I remember seeing some stuff. Like,y I don't remember that exact day, but I remember when she was -- I remember rseeing some stuff like that before. I mean, I remember seeing some stuff like that before with you, but it's like, when you used to do it it did used to hurt me, but I thinko during that time you had friends in your life that used to influence you to do stuff,t and that's what used to hurt me. Because, I remember when we used to live onS Eastern Avenue with you and your friend [Keanna?] that you had, like, she was an influence of you doing the stuff that you did. And I didn't like her but she was your Rawley, Delores 17 friend, so I never -- I'm never disrespectful with no one, but it's just like I know that -- I

know that you can be a better person and you had bad influences in your life. That's why

I tell you now, when you get new friends, I be like, who's that? Who are they? All that

stuff, and it's just like, I don't want you going back down the wrong path, and I see that

you are doing better and you are making better decisions than you are. You do have a

good group of friends now, and the ones -- and I know you still are friends with people

that still do that stuff, but you are mature enough and wise enough to know that you can't

do that no more. And I appreciate the fact that you are doing it for me and [Nico?] and all the rest of us and stuff. So I just really want you to pay attention to that; that yous do have family remembers that care about you. Especially me. When I used to like see the

stuff, like, on the table and stuff, I used to be hurt because (cries) -- p DR: It's all right, girl. It's all right. It's all right. It's better today. It's rall right. AH: I just know that you're a better person because I never seeno you when you was like that. DR: That's an experience for you. You know not to go out there and do them type of things.

You know not to do it. You know what I'm saying? You know not to do it, Aisis. I

mean, if there anything you need [30:00] to Cknow or whatever, whatever, just come and talk to me. Ask me. I'm not going toy tell you no lie. I never have. I never have. AH: I just know it was -- I know itr wasn't good for you and I just didn't want to see you keep hurting yourself, and like, I just didn't want to see you do it like that because I have a lot of friends their grandmotherso are not here no more and you are (cries) -- DR: Aisis, it's goingt to be all right. I'm not going nowhere, sweetie. I'm not going nowhere. AH: You'reS my best friend. I couldn't picture it if you wasn't here no more. Like, you're my best friend. I talk to you about everything, and it's just like, I don't want you to hurt Rawley, Delores 18 yourself or you be in a predicament that you feel as though -- that you have to choose to

do something that I know don't want to do, but I just really don't want to see you do any

bad, wrong decisions that you know is going to affect your life, because like, I would be -

- I will be really hurt if you ever -- like, something happened to you. I can't handle that.

DR: No.

AH: I really can't. That's why I always tell you, Grandma, just be careful. Like, I just don't

want you to make any decisions, because I know you. Like, I just don't want you to hang

around people that do that stuff that's going to be bad for you. I want you to keep your company good. I don't want nothing to ever like, distract you from doing stuff thats you know is going to help you. I don't want the people that you hang around to -- like, they

see you doing good and they probably want to see you back on how youp was on drugs and stuff. I don't want that to happen to you. I just really want your to stay. I want you to see me graduate, see me go over to prom, see me hopefullyo graduate from college and stuff and do the same for Nico.

DR: I will.

AH: Because I know Nico loves you as much as CI do and I just really don't want my brother to see that -- I'm glad actually that Nicoy was as young as he was when you was doing the stuff that you was doing, becauser I didn't want him to see that part of you because Nico don't know that part of you and I hope he will never like, ever get a chance -- I don't want him to see that part oof you because, by that being the experience that you had with me, I saw a lot and tit did hurt me and I don't want it to hurt the way it did Nico. So I do hope that youS stay clean for the sake of all of your grandkids, because -- Rawley, Delores 19 DR: I will. I promise, Aisis. I'm going to see you walk across that stage, I'm going to see you

go to prom. I'm going to see all of that. Due to the grace of God, I'm going to see all of

it. So, sweetie, I mean, no. Don't worry about that because I'm not going nowhere. I'm

not going nowhere. Nowhere am I going.

F: Delores, do you want to explain to Aisis how you fell into that world and how it

happened, and when?

DR: Well, I think I was -- I think I was -- wipe your face, baby. You have (inaudible) from

the tissue. I think I was -- I think when I got into the drug world I was -- I think 18, 19 or 20. One of them three ages. And I was hanging out with this crew of girls, Dianes and of them. I was hanging out with them, right, and they were doing -- they were much older

than what I were. You know, I always hung around older people and theyp were older than what I was. I'd just seem them doing them, I just wanted to rsee what -- you know, I was curious. I was a curious person, you know what I'mo saying? Didn't nobody influence me to do anything. Trust me. Anything. I done the things I done, I done

because I wanted to do them. I wanted to experience. I wanted to. And you know what?

I liked it. I like it. I really did. I liked it. AndC you know, that's what happened, and didn't nobody make me, put no gun yto my head. They didn't make me do nothing. But, they didn't say, Delores, don'tr do it. It ain't for you. AH: They never tried to talk to -- DR: So I knew they wasn'to really, really my friends because if they were they would have said -- t AH: That'sS not for you. Rawley, Delores 20 DR: Yeah. They would have been there for me. They would have said, Delores, this ain't for

you, Delores, no. You know what I'm saying? But they didn't. They never did. You

know, so basically they didn't force me to do nothing. I done it because I wanted to do it,

I wanted to experience it. But please, don't ever experience nothing I did. Please don't.

Please don't. I experienced it and I liked it. I liked -- I loved it. And I did. I'm being

truthful with you. I loved it. You know, so that's the way that went. Just leave it alone.

It's no good for you. It's not -- it's not -- please, just leave it alone. Don't -- don't want to

try it. Don't want none of that. When somebody try to introduce you to some of the drugs out there, walk away. Walk away. Say I don't think this is for me, matter ofs fact, I know this is not for me. You know what I'm saying? If they're your friends they

wouldn't offer it to you anyway. You feel me? They wouldn't offer it top you anyway. So with that note, just walk away, baby. Walk away. That's right. r F: Delores, can you tell Aisis what you admire about her? o DR: Aisis, let me tell you something, I admire everything about you. I mean, it's not nothing

that I don't -- I admire everything about you. She's a brilliant young lady. She's smart.

AH: I'm smart. C DR: She's a go-getter. y AH: I'm a go-getter. r DR: I'm talking to you. You're a go-getter. You're all of that. You know what I'm saying? And you're making ogood choices. That's what I really like about you. You know? You know, she -- Aisist is very -- you're a very intelligent young lady. That's my girl. AH: RememberS when I called you and told you I made honor roll? DR: Yes. Rawley, Delores 21 AH: You was like, yes!

DR: You don't even make it -- she made it twice.

AH: Yeah, I made it --

DR: But I like about when you all call me an old coach bag.

AH: That was Nico. That was Nico's idea.

DR: I love my little pumpkin head. I love her so much, I swear to God I do. I do, I love her.

We go through our little -- Aisis, you and I go through our little -- you know what I'm

saying, but at the end of the day we all right. We'll get over it, right? AH: (laughs) s DR: We get over it, right?

AH: We always get over it. p DR: Oh you make me mad sometimes, girl. r AH: Why do I make you mad? o DR: Girl.

AH: Why do I make you mad.

DR: You make me mad, Aisis. Sometimes you do.C AH: You make me mad sometimes. y DR: (impersonates) Oh grandma, rI'm on the other line. I'll call you back. You don't never call back. AH: I do call you back. o DR: You shouldn'tt receive that 16 mark, girl? AH: I do callS you back. DR: Like, oh. Rawley, Delores 22 AH: You call me --

DR: I be so jealous when it comes to [Adele?] and them. Oh, I be so jealous.

AH: That's my best friend.

DR: I know they're your friends. I know I'm just your grandma-ma. But still.

AH: Maw-maw you don't got to be jealous.

DR: (laughs)

F: (inaudible) your earliest memories and your happiest memories (inaudible)?

AH: I remember when you was living over on 21st and bought me and [Antwon?] them two doves, and I remember when she bought them -- you was like, what we going to names them? And then Antwon was like, Antwon said some dumb name and I was like, no.

And that's when you was like, all right, Antwon yours is going to be Aisisp, and Aisis, yours is going to be Antwon. So our doves was our names. Andr I remember when me and Antwon, we -- this is -- I think this was before Nicoo was like born and stuff, and that's when me and Antwon had came home from school and Antwon going to Brown

and I was in Charles, you know? And you had some newspaper everywhere, and he was

like, hurry up, close the door, close the door,C the dove's out. And that's when we was like, OK, we hurry up close the door.y We was like, where's the doves? You had the kitchen window open and ther doves was not in there, and we was outside trying to -- we was outside in the cold really trying to look for doves outside. We didn't realize how dumb of an idea to looko for doves outside where they could fly at. DR: And they couldn'tt live a while. AH: And Swe like -- we was like, oh, we can't look for them out here. They probably gone. And that's when you was like, we're going to buy some more and (inaudible) was like, no. Rawley, Delores 23 DR: It wasn't nothing. If I could give you, I would give you. It wasn't nothing that you all

wanted that, if I could do it, you were going to get it. I gave it to you. I gave you all -- I

swear to God, if --

AH: That's what I love about you. Like, you make sure every Christmas or everybody

birthday you make sure you give something. Like, this past birthday you made sure you

gave something. It wasn't much. You gave something. Christmas you make sure there's

something that, you know, your grandmother gave it to you.

DR: I try. You know, it's somebody's kid that their mother couldn't do -- remember Mark? AH: I remember Mark. s DR: I took Mark all the -- and I gave -- everything I gave you all, and he had, too. You know

what I'm saying? I just -- I'm that type of person. I mean, I try [40:00] top spread my love. r AH: (laughs) o DR: Yeah, I try to spread my love. You know you had my love.

AH: I remember Mark. You did take Mark in.

DR: Yeah, I took Mark in, remember? I made himC the young man that he is today, you better bet that. Because if I didn't take himy in and he was still left on his mother, baby. Made him the young man that he isr today. And he always thank me. Whenever he see me, he say "Thank you, Ma. Thank you so much." Yep. F: We head this from oyour grandmother, but I was hoping we could hear from you. How did you try to thelp your -- tell your grandmother how you try help her and how you try to (inaudible).S Rawley, Delores 24 AH: I remember I used to -- I remember I used to be like, I'm coming over, Grandma. You'd

be like, OK. You hurry up, try and clean up and stuff. I'd be like -- and I'd just be like,

come on, let's go walk. Every time you used to walk somewhere, I used to make sure I

was walking with you. You used to walk to the store, I'd be like come on, and we'd go

walk. On Eastern Avenue, Uncle Lee's? We used to always get them little sandwiches.

DR: Mm-hm. And with the wagon. The Radio flyer wagon. At night. I used to always put

you all in there. You and Nico I used to put you all in there at night --

AH: And we used to ride down that hill. DR: -- I just pulled that wagon, take them for their nightly walk. s AH: I used to make sure you was always with us, like make sure you wasn't distracting on

anything else. p DR: Yeah, we were always together. r AH: Every time I'm over to your house, I just make sure, Grandma,o what you doing? I know I get on your nerves with it. I always -- what you doing? You OK? All this type stuff.

Who's coming over? You OK? All this type stuff. I just make sure your time is spent

good, especially when I’m around. C DR: Yeah. y AH: I don't want you doing anythingr -- DR: I think my daughter -- I think your mother dropped you all off to take up some of my time and make sureo I wasn't out there in the street doing something I had no business doing. t AH: I usedS to always be like, come on mom, drop me off. She used to get irritated, but, like, I want to go to Maw-maw's house. Rawley, Delores 25 DR: Girl, remember when I first put you all on the bus?

AH: She told me.

DR: My daughter was mad when I first put you all on the bus, right? You and Nico. I said,

I'm tired of getting up taking you all to school.

AH: You put us on the U 4 to school.

DR: I talked to the bus driver. I said, these are my two grandkids. Please make sure they get

off the bus and get --

AH: And Mommy was like, you put them on the bus? DR: She was so mad. You all had to learn. You all had to learn. You know what I'm ssaying? I had faith in you all. I had faith. I had faith in that bus driver, they wouldn't going to let

nothing happen to my grandkids. p AH: You put them on the bus? r DR: I never would let you all come home by yourself, right? o I was always there to pick you all up. You all had to cross that traffic on Bennett Road. But you all learned. You all

learned. I taught you all some things, baby, and I kept you all safe.

AH: (laughs) C DR: That's one thing I can say. Before Iy leave this Earth -- that's one thing I can say; I took care of my grandkids and I keptr them safe. I don't care what nobody say, I kept them safe. AH: That's how I hope Jacksono (inaudible) grow up -- DR: Yeah, I've gott to work on them. AH: (inaudible)S DR: I got two more -- we got to. I got two more grandkids I've got to work on. Rawley, Delores 26 AH: [Parker?] a baby.

DR: It's going to be hard getting them from my daughters.

AH: [Anwayee?]

DR: Yes. It's going to be hard getting them from her, unless I move out there in Clinton.

AH: She like, uh-uh, Delores.

DR: Wait till they walk.

AH: Wait till they walk.

DR: Yeah, wait till they walking. Wait till they walking. F: (inaudible) s AH: What else did I do to help you? I don't think that I physically did anything to help you. I

just knew by me being there that was just like, OK, my granddaughter here.p Can't do nothing dumb. Because I used to always get on you like, what arer you doing? Like, I used to always yell at you. I just think my presence, justo being there, was always just wanting to help you, just be like, don't do this, don't do that. Because I know -- I know

that -- I knew Mommy knew the things that she was doing and she was scared to

sometimes leave me and Nico with you and Cstuff, and people doubted you and stuff -- not saying I specifically heard -- but peopley doubted you and thought you were still doing some stuff that you were doing,r but I was like, no, Maw-maw not like that no more. Maw-maw fine. And like, just by me being there, you was OK. DR: That's right. o AH: That's why everyt time I'm over to your house, what do we do? Just sit there on the couch,S look at LMN [Lifetime Movie Network], look at Lifetime. DR: And ate. Rawley, Delores 27 AH: And eat.

DR: And went to the [courier?]. (laughs)

AH: So, just my presence just there like helped you.

DR: Yes.

F: (inaudible)

AH: All the time. I used -- all the time. When my uncle -- when my -- Maw-maw, when

Antwon used to be home, my uncle, we used to just always just be like, we just be like

broke -- we always be -- me and him used to just breakdown crying in the backroom. Be like, Grandma, we don't want you doing -- see you doing bad -- especially the peoples that used to -- you used to be friends with. Me and him used to be like, look, you can't hang

around them. You all can't be together. You need to stop, and stuff. Oh.p I'm sorry. F: (inaudible) r AH: So it's just like, I always tell her, I'm worried about youro wellbeing. You need to make sure what you're doing is fine. I always call her, you fine? Make sure you remember to

do this or remember to do that.

DR: That you did. C AH: Always on your nerves, but I had to.y DR: Yeah, you did. r F: (inaudible) DR: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. o You know what? If it wasn't for my grandkids and my kids -- AH: If it wasn't fort me? DR: If it wasn'tS for Aisis and my other grandkids, and my kids -- my kids, you know, I don't know, I'd probably be -- I'd probably be somewhere dead right about now. I'm telling Rawley, Delores 28 you because, I mean, I'm being real. I'm being truthful. I'm not -- you know me. I'm

saying, because I mean, I have something to live for. I have something to live for. I had

the rest of them to live for. You know what I'm saying? If it wasn't for you and you all

being around, girl. I told you I loved it. I really did. I loved it. I'm not lying. I loved it.

And I probably would have kept on going, kept on going, kept on going until I would

have been dead somewhere. You know what I'm saying? But thank God for my dag-

gone Aisis. Thank God, baby.

AH: Grandma. (laughs) DR: And the rest of you all. I swear. You know, because she stayed -- you stayed behinds me. You surely did. One thing about you, Aisis. I don't know, you just seem like you always

-- you -- you been here before. p AH: I been here before? r DR: Yeah, it seem like -- you ever heard that saying? You beeno here before? You -- it's like you been here before.

AH: (laughs)

DR: Yeah, really. It's like you been here before.C I don't know. You had an old soul. AH: I had an old soul? y DR: Yeah. You still do. You haver an old soul. AH: What's an old soul? DR: You've been here before,o girl. AH: Where have I tbeen? DR: (laughs)S AH: I ain't been here before. Rawley, Delores 29 DR: You have an old soul, Aisis. When I say that, it's like, girl, it's like -- you're 16. It's like

you 30.

AH: I'm not 30.

DR: You have an old -- that's what -- you have an old soul, Aisis.

AH: Going around you. You always used to make me look at all the old TV shows with you.

DR: I mean, you had to learn, girl.

AH: All that stuff. All that old music. I didn't get a phone until I was like -- I was like 10,

11. DR: That's all right. Them was the good ole days. We had a ball then. s AH: We still do have a ball.

DR: Yeah, but I'm talking about coming up. p F: Aisis, is there anything that you've never told your grandmother thatr you want her to know? o AH: No, I told her everything. I tell you everything.

DR: Basically, yes.

AH: There's nothing I never kept from you. Like,C even if I wanted to, I always tell myself, all right, I'm not going to tell. I alwaysy be like, I always call you, be like, Grandma you can't say nothing. You can't say nothing.r Like, this between me and you. Like I always just tell you -- I always end up telling you, but I don't tell Mommy. I always tell you. You always the first persono I call. I always tell you everything. I be like, Grandma, guess what? Or, yout can't say nothing. Promise you won't say nothing, you be like, girl, I ain't goingS to say nothing. Rawley, Delores 30 DR: But I used to always tell you too, your mother ain't going to do nothing. Your mother

ain't -- I mean, she's going to talk to you. She ain't going to hit you or nothing, she's just

going to talk to you. She used to be scared. Why?

F: What kind of things do you guys talk about? (inaudible)

DR: Everything.

AH: Like, she'll tell me about -- I mean, you would always tell me about like -- you be like,

girl, guess what happened today? You'll tell me stuff that happened around the

neighborhood you live in or what you did, or when you go the clinic, I be like, you went to the clinic today, you be like, yeah, and stuff like that. s DR: I treat her like -- not like -- I treat her like --

AH: You treat me. p DR: - like my girlfriend. r AH: You treat me like your girlfriend? o DR: I treat you like my girlfriend. I mean, you know how we talk. You know how we talk.

You know? I treat you like -- you know I've always treated you like you're my girlfriend,

now. You know, my buddy or something likeC that. I don't know. A lot of stuff that I didn't trust telling other people, I trusty telling you. AH: You've got [50:00] to make surer you don't say nothing. I don't say nothing. Me and you got -- DR: (inaudible) o AH: Me and you gott a lot of secrets. DR: Yeah.S F: (inaudible) Rawley, Delores 31 DR: I don't know. The only thing that I can say is that, when she came into this world, I was

like, oh God, look at my boo-boo.

AH: (laughs)

DR: Yeah. I mean, from that moment on, my life begun all over again. I don't know. I was

just -- I don't know. That's my pooty girl.

AH: (laughs) I'm your pooty girl?

DR: I don't know. I mean, you all -- Aisis -- I mean, Aisis understand but other people might

not understand us, but -- AH: Me and you got -- s DR: We understand each other.

AH: Yeah, we got -- we understand each other. p DR: A lot of memories of her. I mean, just coming into the world. r AH: Mommy -- mommy be like, what are you all talking about?o Don't worry about it. (laughs)

F: Is there anything you want to say to Aisis?

DR: I love you, sweetie, and I always will, baby.C I love you so much. AH: I love you, too. y DR: I love my baby. I do. r AH: I love you, too. DR: She's like mine. o AH: I just want to tmake -- I just always want you to be like, safe. Make sure you make right choicesS, make right decisions, make sure -- I sometimes feel like your mother. I always call you, make sure you're OK. Rawley, Delores 32 DR: Yeah.

AH: I always make sure -- even though you probably call me first. Call me during school. I

can't answer the phone in school.

DR: Yeah, I call you at school. How's it going, Aisis? (laughs)

AH: You call me at school. It's like, just make sure you're OK.

DR: If other people could be a fly on the wall, they would really hear something else.

AH: (laughs) They can't know.

F: You want to ask your grandmother what hopes she has for you in the future? AH: Yes. What's your hopes for me? s DR: Aisis, I hope that once you graduate from school, go to college -- because you are going

to college, I know that. Go to college, I don't know what you -- what youp want to major in anyway? r AH: I want to nurse. I been telling you that. o DR: You want to be a nurse?

AH: You and mommy --

DR: No, no, no. Aisis, you would be that -- C AH: I do want to nurse. I really want to ynurse. DR: What else, OK? r AH: I really want to nurse. That's -- I been telling you that -- DR: You want to be a nurse?o OK. AH: I told you that.t DR: OK, Swell whatever you major in -- AH: I really want to be a nurse. Rawley, Delores 33 DR: -- I hope you be the best at it and -- I hope you be the best at it and -- Aisis, I just know

you're going to have a wonderful life. You're going to have -- you going to give me some

beautiful great-grandkids, even if --

AH: (laughs)

DR: -- even if -- but I know I'm going to -- I'm going to be here to see all that. You know, I

know you going to give me some beautiful great-grandkids.

AH: Oh my God.

DR: You going to get married, you going to have a successful husband. Both you all going to be successful. You all are. You all are. Aisis, you're going to have a beautiful lifes because you're a beautiful person. You're a good-hearted person, because you learned it

from the best. p AH: That's why I want to be a nurse. r DR: You learned it from me. o AH: That's why I want to be a nurse. I'm good with people. I help people.

DR: You're a people person, you are. You're a people person. Well that's all right if that's

what you want to be. C AH: I'm not scared like you. y DR: That's what I wanted to be comingr up, but I'm scared of blood and all that. I'm scared of all that, yeah. What's that say? AH: [Elm Auto?] (inaudible).o DR: Oh yeah, becauset it -- yes. Well, that's about -- F: DoesS your grandma know about the recording you made for Story Corps (inaudible). Rawley, Delores 34 AH: I ain't -- I haven't -- I didn't tell her until the day I told you. Like, it slipped my mind.

But I told you on the phone, when they asked us -- I forgot the question they asked us.

They was like, talk about your favorite memory or your favorite person that you have in

your life, and I said you. You always been that person every time the school -- who do

you look up to, who's your biggest role model. I say you, my grandmother. You always

been the role model because I know that you have struggles and stuff and I know that you

-- you was like a really powerful person to yourself.

DR: Well. AH: So it was you. But I'm sorry I didn't tell you earlier. s DR: That's all right.

AH: But you should have knew that. p F: Delores, what does it make you feel like to know that you're Aisisr' role model? DR: Wonderful. Wonderful. o AH: (laughs)

DR: It is wonderful. You know, I stopped a lot of thing just to be there for Aisis --

AH: For me. For me. C DR: I stopped a lot of things just to be therey for you, God knows, I really did. I stopped a lot. AH: I'm glad that you did. r DR: Yeah, I really did. AH: I like the person thato you are becoming. DR: Well. t AH: (laughs)S DR: Go, go, grandma. Rawley, Delores 35 AH: We just have to make you start drinking water now.

DR: I know, I know. I got to start drinking water, but I'm going to do it. Aisis, you know

what? I drunk about this much water last night -- between last night and this morning.

AH: (laughs)

DR: I did, I really did. And when it went down, everybody say, shhhh.

AH: OK.

DR: It was like sizzling.

AH: It was sizzling? Because you don't drink water at all. DR: No, I don't drink too much water and that's bad. I just don't like the taste of water.s AH: We need to keep you healthy. You need water. The hernia on your stomach needs to go

away. p F: Aisis, one more thing. Sorry. How do you picture Aisis in the future?r DR: Oh, girl. I picture Aisis as being -- I mean, I picture youo as being -- I'm going to tell you. I picture you as being a model.

AH: A model?

DR: Yes. C AH: A model? y DR: Tall -- yes. r AH: A model? DR: A beautiful -- I pictureo you as being, because I know you're going to be a people person. You're going tto be a good-hearted person. Even if I'm not -- even if I'm not around to see that, Sgrace of God, I'm going to be here. I'm going to be here. AH: That's why we have to keep you healthy. Rawley, Delores 36 DR: Aisis, you're going to be --

AH: A model?

DR: You're going to be, oh God.

AH: I don't see myself as a model.

DR: I do because you're already -- you're my model.

AH: Ohh.

DR: Look at you, you're beautiful. You are.

AH: Thanks. Even with the pimple on my face? DR: Just don't take it to the head. Just don't take it to the head. s AH: Even with this pimple on my face I'm still beautiful?

DR: Yes. We get pimples. I never had bumps on my face coming up. That'sp a teenager bump. You might get them type of bumps when you -- r AH: Shh, Grandma. Oh my God. o F: Is there anything that you guys want to say to each other (inaudible)? Oh.

AH: Grandma -- Mommy. Mommy.

DR: You're making noise. C AH: You're making noise. Trying to makey dinner. F: Is there anything that you wantr to say to each other, anything you want to ask each other (inaudible)? AH: I just really want youo to continue being healthy. You know I love you a lot. I love you a lot. You're myt real dog. I just want to see the rest of you -- I like -- like I said, I like the personS that you are becoming and stuff, and I just really just want you to stay focused on your goal and just being healthy. I want you there and to see a lot of stuff with me and Rawley, Delores 37 Nico, Jackson and Parker. I just want you to be there for us and stuff. I want them -- I want your other grandkids, the younger ones, to experience the memories I have with you. I just want you to always remember that you're here -- [58:12]

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