1 the Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs

The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Program Foreign Service Spouse Series JANET LLOYD Interviewed by: Jewell Fenzi Initial interview date: June 7, 1995 TABLE OF CONTENTS FLO Background omen!s movement omen!s Action Organization, Research Committee on Spouses Association of American Foreign Service omen Forum Foreign Service Education and Counseling Center FLO Established Personalities involved Choosing offices near Diplomatic Entrance Secret Service reluctant to vacate space Skepticism on part of State officials Divorce an immediate issue to be dealt with Personal Background Derivative role Teen-agers having difficulty at post Back in U.S., returned to school Feminine Mystique ,ssues Addressed Establishing Community Liaison Offices abroad Divorce AO ob-ection to name of office .obs for spouses, at home and abroad Department ob-ection to bilateral work agreements Dialogue with diplomatic women from missions in ashington AAFS Forum Report addressed all spouse concerns of the 70!s Spouse ,ssues 1223 Forum conference Lloyd saddened, time for those women to move on Spouse talents under-used by State 1 Role of Spouse Skills bank in FLO Personal counseling Evacuations from 4iddle East and resulting FLO e5pansion Department threatened by deep anger of women Lloyd treaded fine line between conciliation and standing firm Leadership Brown bag lunch of influential and involved women helped FLO founding .oan ilson gracious in her Overseas Briefing Center directorship Personalities involved FLO Policies Lloyd in office only 2 years FLO needs fresh ideas from the field Laments FLO being dragged further into the bureaucracy Accomplishments during Lloyd!s tenure Hopes communication between FLO, OBC, and AAFS continues Physical distances greater now Childcare should have priority Career Limitations French Foreign 4inistry had more appreciation for traditional spouse ,mpossible to follow a profession in FS No solution to the career problem Terrorism has made a big difference 8eneral Discussion 1272 Policy on Spouses Negative effect of FS life on Lloyd!s older children Choosing between career and family, ingate Lloyd resigned from FS Spouses today are not valued by the Department nor by peers Resistance to FLO from some officials in Department Lloyd had to cultivate, keep communication open with them Aggression would have had a negative effect Had to get respect of upper echelon 9gentlemen: at State ingate was an enormous help, very supportive, not threatened by 9hoopla: surrounding new FLO INTERVIEW Q: This is Jewell Fenzi n Wednesday, June 7, 1995. I am interviewing Janet Ll yd at my h me in Washingt n, D.C. This m rning Janet and I will talk ab ut her p siti n as first direct r f the Family Liais n Office at the Department f ,tate, 1978.1980. 2 0lease talk ab ut y ur time at FLO, and what a break.thr ugh 1the ffice2 was. I think it might be g d, just f r the rec rd, t rec rd all f the backgr und, r at least s me f the backgr und, that preceded the f unding f FLO, starting with H pe Meyers 14 pe Meyers f ll wed sp use issues at the Department f ,tate fr m the mid.1970s until her death in 1991. ,he chaired the Research C mmittee n ,p uses that first rec mmended an mbudsman f r sp uses in the Department, a c ncept that ultimately resulted in the Family Liais n Office.]. ,he pr p sed an mbudsman f r sp uses. This g es back t the W men6s Acti n Organizati n 8WAO9 in the early 670s, and there were sp uses in WAO, wh were als empl yees, wh felt that they had n v ice in the Department. And even the w men 1 fficers2 themselves went t Mildred Marcy 1Advis r, Office f P licy, :,IA 1961.742, wh se husband was chief f staff n ,enat r 1William2 Fulbright6s F reign Relati ns C mmittee, and had her intr duce them t 1Deputy :nder ,ecretary f ,tate f r Management William B.] Mac mber s that they c uld be heard n the seventh fl r. 1Offices f the ,ecretary f ,tate.] Then H pe Meyers m ved int the W men6s Acti n Organizati n rather tangentially thr ugh what I believe she called, the C mmittee n Research f r ,p uses. There was n ther rganizati n .. AAF,W 1Ass ciati n f American F reign ,ervice W men2 f c urse w uldn6t t uch s mething called "W men6s Acti n Organizati n". , H pe was in an interesting situati n: she was vice president f AAF,W but really w rking with the ther gr up. Cynthia Chard came int that eventually, perhaps n t until the 1AAF,W2 F rum, which was what led t FLO, and that meeting I recall very well ccurred n a ,aturday m rning in N vember 1976. Did y u g t that? LLOYD: No. Q: N r did I because I had t l k at this h use. Then I felt that since I wasn6t in n that eff rt at the beginning, I w uldn6t try t catch up and bec me inv lved in it. But that was in essence the backgr und t what led t FLO. And then I have in the files interviews with Lesley D rman, Margaret ,ullivan, Cynthia Chard, Jean Aance, ,tephanie Kinney 1F reign ,ervice wives actively inv lved in f unding FLO. Lesley D rman, as president f AAF,W, marshaled the sp use f rces that neg tiated and l bbied f r the ffice.], as well as with H pe .. all the interviews that lead us up t h w FLO came int being. LLOYD: ,t's a good thing you have [this record? of that early period because , was not involved in it and really don't know a great deal about it -- , knew Hope 4eyers reasonably well when she continued to come to meetings in the early days just before and after FLO was born. , knew her, and about what you've just mentioned, but , was getting a 4asters in that period, and with four children , was really flat out not involved with that situation. Q: Pr bably just as well, really .. I think any ne inv lved pr bably w uld n t have been ch sen as the first direct r. 3 LLOYD: , think that's probably true. And of course it was sort of felicitous from my point of view -- , was working for the Foreign Service Education and Counseling Center, which is how , then came in contact with all these people and with the movement and read the Forum report for the first time. , mean, , en-oyed that job SO much (she laughsA , think it was such an important time in the history of the Foreign Service. Q: Abs lutely. LLOYD: -- and women in the Foreign Service. But , just feel it was through destiny: , was just close enough but far enough away, and had the counseling credentials which they really wanted. Q: And needed at that p int. What were y u d ing with the Educati n gr up? Was that still Clark ,lade then, r Bernice Munsey, r ... ? LLOYD: ,t had been Clark Slade. ,t was physically located in the AFSA [American Foreign Service Association? building across the street from the State Department. Actually the two organizations were Buite at odds. (laughterA Q: Well, I remember this, and I d n6t think ,usan McClint ck 1N w ,usan Cl ugh Wyatt, first pers nnel fficerDempl yment c unsel r at FLO.] put that n her tape but there was s me fricti n? 8they clarify that Munsey was later ne f FLO6s educati nal c unsel rs, and transferred eventually t ,tate9 ,he was n t a F reign ,ervice sp use, actually, but bvi usly was very well versed in educati nal matters. What was the c nflict between AF,A and the Educati n gr up? LLOYD: , think some of it was personalities and the rest of it was (laughingA just sort of Cthe women.C They were a very male-oriented group when , first knew them. ,'m sure it's not true now because , know Don Norland [Donald R. Norland, former AEP to Botswana, Lesotho and Swaziland 127D, and Chad, 1272? is doing things. Q: D n N rland6s wife Pat has been very helpful with the ral hist ryE she recently interviewed D nna Edm nds n 8sp use f f rmer AE0 t , uth Africa9. LLOYD: To finish with the FSECC [Foreign Service Education and Counseling Center? it was run by Clark Slade, and his attitude was also sort of Cthe women.C hen he left, a committee was formed -- , don't remember e5actly the circumstances of his leaving -- which then selected Bernice 4unsey, and , recall that committee consisted of Donna Hartman, 4arilyn Holmes [Hartman was spouse of the assistant secretary of state for European affairs, 127EF Holmes was subseBuently a FLO director? -- again this is hearsay, , wasn't around -- and some others ,'m sure, and Bernice was chosen because they wanted an outsider, , think, a non-Foreign Service spouse at that point. She set up a very good office, helping and advising -- , think you had to pay something for this service but not very much. ,t used to be subsidized. That was a really going concern. 4 hen FLO was finally agreed to, it became obvious that an office like that should in fact be placed in a FLO office, so it was, later on.

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