Interview with Molefi John Phasha
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Project name: Alternative History Project Date of interview: 2007-07-24 Location of interview: Rammolutsi, Free State Language of interview: English Name of Interviewer/s: Dale McKinley & Ahmed Veriava Name of Interviewee/s: Molefi John Phasha Name of transcriber: Moses Moremi Audio file name: AHP_RAM_PhashaMolefiJohn_20070724 INTERVIEW WITH MOLEFI JOHN PHASHA Dale McKinley (DM): Will you, just for the record, state your full name? Molefi Phasha (MP): I am Molefi John Phasha. I stay here at Rammolutsi at number 3979, under Viljoenskroon. DM: How long have you been staying here at Rammolutsi? MP: Not so long, the last place that I lived was Bothaville. I became a pensioner and I had to come live here. I left my previous wife and then I took my new wife – who passed in April – and now I’m staying alone her with kids. That’s my life. AV: How many kids do you have? MP: 3 boys. One boy and two twins. The younger kids are 12 years old, and the older one is 15 years old. DM: Where were you born and raised? MP: I was born in Bothaville and raised there. I started working there at a hotel because I couldn’t go further on school. So, after Std 6 I just had to work until I can not go further. DM: How far is Bothaville, from here? MP: It is about 50 - 59 kilometres. DM: What year did you start working in that hotel? MP: When I started working at the hotel I was a waiter. Then I got work at the furnisher and then I became a supervisor. From there I was a training instructor, training in about 15 towns which were Bothville, Klerksdorp, Orkney, Potch, Christiana … DM: What kind of training was that? MP: I was training sales ladies and supervisors how work … how to use themselves and people… something like that DM: Okay, and all of those people were working in hotels and restaurants …? MP: No, at that time I was working for a furnisher, which was Protea furnisher shop. The regional office was in Klerksdorp and the big one was in Joburg. Molefi John Phasha: 2007-07-24: 1 DM: I’m just trying to locate the time .. when was that? MP: When I started working in the hotel it was around 1970, and then in 1980's I was working for the furnishers. From the furnishers, I had to open for Rodney, a pawn shop. That man gave me R80 000 cash, an empty shop, and gave me a bakkie then I started that pawn shop in Bothaville. Then until I’m making R80 000 in income in one month. DM: So you were able to pay the initial loan back in one month? MP: In one month, yes. DM: How long did you run that pawn shop? MP: I was running it for 4 years, The 5th year – that man was paying me R350 a month – and when I started to say that he must give me some more, he left his work and came to the shop himself. DM: And then you lost that job? MP: I lost the job. DM: What year was that when you stopped working at the pawn shop? MP: 1997. From ’97 I started to work piece job. DM: What year did you arrive here in Rammolutsi? MP: 2004 when I left my piece job. DM: Tell us how it was working in all those place … what was it like as a young black man in those days … was it very difficult for you? MP: It was not that difficult for me. Because when I started to work at the pawn shop I had been trained by the furnisher. They took me and trained me … how to make income, how to spend money. I got my drivers licence in 1963. I’m still driving, I’m still alright .. code 8. DM: All those years n Bothaville, what were your living conditions? Did you live in a house? MP: Yes, in Bothaville I’ve got my own house. But here it was only that wife who was staying here and I’ve got to help her. Unfortunately she passed away in April. DM: From fairly early on you had your own house in Bothaville … and you still own that house MP: I still own the house. DM: Are you renting it out? Who stays there in your house in Bothaville? MP: My first wife is staying there. DM: So that’s after you got divorced from her? MP: I am not divorced. DM: Okay, so you took a second wife? MP: Yes. Molefi John Phasha: 2007-07-24: 2 DM: So your first wife still lives there but the children are here with you. MP: Yes, but it is the 2nd wife’s children. DM: Do you have children by your first wife? MP: Yes, I have two. DM: Do they live in Bothaville or have they moved on? MP: The young one lives in Bothaville and the elder one is working at Welkom. DM: What I’m trying to do is get a picture before you came here … what it was like to live in a place like Bothaville? Most people would say, Bothaville is a small Afrikaans town and it is difficult for the race relations between people, a very conservative place. Tell us about what it was like to live there? MP: Bothaville, there are nice people living there. The white people and the black people were not fighting so much. We were trying to work together. As for myself, I was having that shop there and the white men were getting in the shop and asking me things .. and I was telling them about this and that. I was selling cash and account. My deposit was half the price DM: For your own personal life, then you didn’t experience any negative kinds of. experiences?. MP: No. DM: So you quite enjoyed life there? MP: Yes DM: When things started changing in the early ;90s after the unbanning of the ANC, the release of Mandela and all the negotiations that were taking place. How did that make you feel about things? MP: In the early ‘90s everything was changing. From my side, I was feeling better, because I had to do anything I want, I am free now. If I want to do my own business now, I could do that. I could have my own business now but to do that you have to borrow money and to do that is a bit difficult for me just because of money. But if I can get money I can open a business and carry on. DM: How did all those changes, change things in a place like Bothaville? You described the relations as healthy between white and black … did that start changing? MP: Bothaville, that was a nice place for me. Since I arrived here in Rammolutsi I see a bit of difference … here in Viljoenskroon black people are still working like blacks and whites are still working like whites. There and there they can communicate but not much. If you want to ask help from the white man he doesn’t know you. DM: So what you’re saying is that in Bothaville the relations were much closer and people knew each other better? MP: Yes, closer, better everything. If I can carry on I think that in 2010 I will be back at Bothaville. Molefi John Phasha: 2007-07-24: 3 DM: When April 1994 happened and the elections happened and Mandela became president, you were working at that pawn shop right? How did you think … that was going to change things for you? MP: It was nice for us. Even the black in Bothaville, those who could not buy furniture and things like that tried to enjoy themselves .. at that time business was good. DM: You were also approaching retirement age at that point … you were getting older. MP: Yes, I was getting old. Next year I will be 70 years. DM: Was the decision to move here purely based on your family and the situation with your 2nd wife or was it other things …? MP: Yes, it was my family. DM: Tell us what it was like when you arrived here … what was your experience when you arrived here? MP: I didn’t know people when I arrived. I just knew that wife … so I had to start communicating with people … even now when she was dead, she was a good lady DM: What was the situation with housing? Have you been here (in the shack) since you first arrived? MP: No. When we arrived here we had to go and sit in the informal settlement. DM: And how long were you in that place? MP: 4 years. DM: How did it happen that you moved from that place to this place? MP: The owner of this place moved from here to Vereeniging, so I asked him if we could move into this place. And so we went to the police station and did an affidavit so we could do the account. It’s just like this. DM: So that was more of an individual agreement between you and him? Did you get any assistance from government … had you been on a housing waiting list before? MP: No. It is not mine. I still have my house in Bothaville. It was under the wife’s name. I was starting here for the sake of the kids. I want to go to the municipality so that we can get the support.