Monday Volume 685 7 December 2020 No. 147 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday 7 December 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 545 7 DECEMBER 2020 546 role for the United Kingdom on the international stage, House of Commons giving real purpose to global Britain. Would it not be an abject failure of statecraft, and diminish our collective Monday 7 December 2020 security co-operation, to leave the EU without a deal? The House met at half-past Two o’clock Mr Wallace: My right hon. Friend obviously urges us to make a deal. I think that right now, as we speak, members of the Government are trying to make a deal PRAYERS with the European Union to enforce the decision by the British people to leave the European Union. What [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] would be a mistake is if both sides forgot that security is Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Order, not a competition—it is a partnership. That is what I 4 June). always said as Security Minister,and as Defence Secretary [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] I mean it now. There has been no sign among many of our European allies that that situation has changed. We are still partners in going after whatever threatens all of Oral Answers to Questions us, our way of life and our values. Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Ind): I am encouraged DEFENCE by the Secretary of State’s replies so far. Given that there is no security for Europe without the United States, what specific reassurance can he give that we The Secretary of State was asked— shall not be sucked, via Permanent Structured Cooperation, into the European Union’s persistent attempts to create Military and Security Co-operation: European Union an alternative NATO without the United States, which would be a particularly dangerous military version of Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP): Hamlet without the Prince? What plans he has for future military and security co-operation with EU (a) institutions and (b) member states. [909779] Mr Wallace: My right hon. Friend raises a worrying spectre. First, we are very grateful to the Germans, who The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): have tried very hard to get a proper third-party agreement Although we are leaving the EU defence structures, we with PESCO, although we have no plans to participate remain committed to the security of Europe and will in it because we have serious concerns about the intellectual continue to co-operate with the EU and European property rights and export controls that it would seek to nations on a bilateral or multinational basis on shared impose. However, we will always be open to working threats and challenges. Wedo not need an institutionalised with European industries—on the future combat air relation with the EU to do so. The defence settlement system, for example. We have engaged with the Swedish reaffirms our position as Europe’s leading power, with and the Italians, for instance, because the collective the second highest defence budget in NATO, providing security of Europe is often based on a good sovereign leadership and the ability for investment to help to drive capability in our industrial base. We will continue to do forward NATO’s adaptation. that on a case-by-case basis, and to do that with our other allies such as the United States. Britain is also the Allan Dorans [V]: Any major conflict will require UK keystone of European security. forces to be able to work collaboratively and fully with EU forces in the future. What steps has the Secretary of State taken to ensure that that is possible through access UK-produced Steel Procurement to the European Defence Standardisation Committee, which replaces the former Materiel Standardisation Group? Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): What steps he Mr Wallace: The leader in the field of standardisation is taking to increase the take-up of UK-produced steel has always been NATO, with the setting of NATO in defence procurement. [909780] standards, which have let us interoperate with our allies the United States and all the other nations of Europe. It The Minister for Defence Procurement (Jeremy Quin): would be wrong to abandon that to adopt another The Government publish their future pipeline for steel approach. We all know in Europe, whatever part of the requirements, together with information on compliance, EU debate one is in, that the United States is the with steel procurement guidelines. These measures enable cornerstone of European security, and that is why NATO UK steel manufacturers to plan better and bid for is so important. Government contracts. Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): My right hon. Friend knows, however, that NATO and Jessica Morden: Last month, UK Steel criticised the Europe are not quite the same. As Brexit talks reach opaque procurement processes involved in the defence their conclusion, does he agree that to depart without a sector. I know the Government will agree that UK steel trade deal would be less than helpful in re-establishing is vital to our national interests. Will Ministers therefore western resolve to take on the growing, complex threats set clear and transparent objectives regarding UK steel in that we face? The Government’s integrated review defence projects and commit to engaging with the industry emphasises a commitment to reinvigorating a proactive early, meaningfully and often in the procurement process? 547 Oral Answers 7 DECEMBER 2020 Oral Answers 548 Jeremy Quin: I am sorry to hear that. We are very Veterans: Covid-19 Support keen to engage fully with the steel industry; it is important that we do so. Weneed transparency,and that is absolutely a goal, as is reinforced by the Cabinet Office guidelines. Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab): What support his Looking at the macro picture, however, I am sure that Department has provided to veterans during the covid-19 the hon. Lady would agree that the plans we put in outbreak. [909782] place for the biggest single boost to defence expenditure in 30 years, with the commitments to Type 26, Type 31 The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny and the fleet solid support programme, all suggest that Mercer): The full range of veterans’ support services, there are going to be good opportunities for steel including the Veterans UK helpline and the welfare service, manufacturers in the future. have continued to be provided throughout the covid-19 pandemic, with appropriate adjustments to keep people Departmental Spending: safe. This Government have sponsored a study into the High-skilled Jobs and UK Economy specific effect of covid on the veteran community, and we will report on that in the next few months. Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con): What steps he is taking to ensure that his Department’s spending Fleur Anderson: I welcome the study. This year has supports (a) high-skilled jobs and (b) the wider UK been very challenging for older veterans, who are more economy. [909781] at risk of isolation because of the covid-19 lockdowns and restrictions and the tightening of funding for military Mark Logan (Bolton North East) (Con): What steps charities. What work is the Minister undertaking to he is taking to ensure that his Department’s spending ensure that no veteran in Putney and across the country supports (a) high-skilled jobs and (b) the wider UK is going lonely this Christmas? economy. [909787] Johnny Mercer: Over the course of the past 15 months, The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): the UK’s first Office for Veterans’ Affairs has spent The Ministry of Defence is one of the largest providers every day trying to design a system to stop veterans who of apprenticeships in the United Kingdom, with around leave the military from falling through the panoply of 20,000 on a programme at any one time. We are investing services that are there. That includes working with the in cutting-edge capabilities and research and development third sector, which has an enormously important role, with the future combat air system technology initiative, and also with statutory provision, because we understand resulting in more than 1,800 highly skilled engineers in that, ultimately, this nation’s duties to its veterans should 300 companies throughout the UK. The MOD spent be ensured—not delivered—by the state. I am determined £19.2 billion with UK industry and commerce in 2018-19, we will reach the goal that this will be the best country safeguarding and supporting thousands of jobs throughout in the world to be an armed forces veteran. the UK. Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland Sir David Amess: Will my right hon. Friend confirm West) (Lab) [V]: I thank the Minister for his remarks. what impact the end of the transition period will have As he knows, many of our veterans up and down the on our ability to amend defence procurement regulations country have faced loneliness and isolation as they to support UK jobs? shield during the pandemic, and that feeling will only get worse as we approach Christmas, with the reality of Mr Wallace: The Government are using the opportunity not being able to see family as usual. Will the Minister offered by leaving the EU to develop defence and security support and promote the Jo Cox Foundation’s “Great procurement regulations tailored to better meet the Winter Get Together” to help our veterans who may be UK’s needs.