Darkside Tech Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim.Pdf
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I saw this article posted on the Saunders site, and asked the author (82gl1100iwingman) for permission to post it here, as it contains a lot of interesting information. I hope you like it. =============================== I'm going to be giving you engineering facts about the design of the two different rims and how the tire inter reacts with it. I am also going to be going over the science behind tires and traction, not opinions. I have emailed several tire manufacturing companies asked them some serious questions on how a ct runs on a motorcycle and if they would ever consider doing a side by side comparison. The answers I got back would astound many people. To answer the question if they would ever do a side by side comparison was always no, with the exception of Cooper tires but Cooper tires won't do it because of insurance regulations. Cooper tires are headquartered in England where it is illegal to use a car tire on a motorcycle. One of the reasons why no tire company would ever do a side by side comparison is for safety reasons. The rider of the bike cannot know which tire is on the bike during the tests. If the rider is unaware of the tire it is it could create a catastrophic condition that could harm the rider and others. They are not willing to take that risk. As to where I have gotten my engineering facts from: TJ Tennent - Lead motorcycle tire engineer for Bridgestone\Firestone Virginia Gallant - Tire engineer from Dunlop\Goodyear Tire and Rim Association - Joe Pacuit Sukoshi Fahey - Lead Motorcycle tire Developer from Cooper\Avon Tires I have also received emails back from both Metzler and Hankook but not from anyone in particular. Some of the reading I have been doing is "The Theory of Ground Vehicles" by Jo Yung Wong and "Motorcycling Handling and Chassis Design" by Tony Foale. “The Pneumatic Tire” from the National Highway Traffic Association 2006 edition. I have spent about 2 hours on the phone with TJ Tennent learning about how tires are designed and manufactured and some of the chemical make-up of the tires. The exact ingredients of what and how much are highly classified and are not given out. I also spent about an hour on the phone with Joe Pacuit discussing the rim’s design an function. I have also spoken with Sukoshi Fahey for about an hour over the phone. The Tire and Rim Association sets the standard to which all tires and rims are to be designed to in the USA. I have managed to get Joe Pacuit from the Tire and Rim Association to give me a copywrited and patented, proprietary trade secrets on that only the tire and rim engineers should have. This was given to me on the understanding that I will not publish nor distribute these pages. I can however, tell you what the design measurements are suppose to be for each of the respective tires and rims. During the time on the phone with Joe Pacuit he told of the four separate and different properties that hold a tire on the rim. You have one pneumatic property, and three mechanical properties. Thinking I was smart, told him I knew what the pneumatic property was, air pressure, and I could figure out two of the three mechanical properties. I said one would be the circumference of the rim and the other would be the width of the rim. He told me I only got one of the mechanical properties correct, the circumference of the rim. The width of the rim has no bearing on how it holds the respective tire on the respective rim. You can put a 4 ½” wide tire on a 5” rim or a 5” tire on a 4 ½” rim just as long as you get the bead to be properly seated it will stay on. The other two properties are generated by the design of the rim’s shape. As a tire spins, the centrifugal force generated makes the tire’s bead seat to want to pull from the rim’s bead seat and during cornering, the lateral loads placed on the tires want to push the tire away from the bead flange. As alluded to, in the design of the rims there are two things other than just the circumference of the rim and the air pressure that help hold the tire on. They would be the bead hump, and the bead lock. The bead hump helps keep the tire help against the bead flange and the bead lock helps keep the tire from pulling away from the bead seat. The bead lock is formed as the shape of the face of the bead flange and how the bead flange meets up with the radius from the bead seat to the bead flange. On a car tire/rim combination has a 6.5mm radius. On a motorcycle tire/rim combination has a 2.5mm radius. The bead flange on a car tire is 17.5mm tall and the bead flange has a radius of 9.5m radius on the face. On a motorcycle the bead flange is only 14mm tall and it has one radius in the middle of 12.5mm and a 3.0mm radius on the very top of the face. The bead hump is quite different in shape and size from a car rim to a motorcycle rim. The bead hump is a little larger on a motorcycle rim versus a car rim because of the extra forces generated while the motorcycle is cornering. The bead hump is placed in a VERY critical location on both rims. On a car rim it is 21mm from the bead flange to the center point of the bead hump. On a motorcycle it is placed at 16mm from the bead flange to the center point of the bead hump. Why this is critical, is the respective tire that fits the respective rim will have a matching size bead seat of both the rim and the tire. So by placing a 21mm bead seat (car tire) in a spot only allocated for 16mm. (Motorcycle rim) the car tires bead seat is sitting on the bead hump not down by it allowing the bead hump to help hold the tire on the rim. Thus this where and how a car tire can dismount from a motorcycle rim. Here is an AutoCAD drawing I have done to help with explaining the dimensions and how the tires and rims interact with each other: As far as rim widths, they are the same for both the car rim and the motorcycle rim with the following exception. The 5 ½” rim, the car rim is only .5mm smaller than a motorcycle rim and there is no 7” or 7 ½” wide rims for motorcycles. The Bead Flange (the area of the rim where the bead of the tire seats against the side of the rim) Car Rim 17.5mm (.689") Motorcycle Rim 14mm (.551") The Bead Seat (the area where the tire sits on the rim in between the bead flange and the bead hump. The bead hump is what helps keeps the bead of the tire against the flange of the rim) On a Car Rim it is 21mm wide with a 5° positive slope. On a Motorcycle Rim it is 16mm wide with a 5° positive slope. The lower inside corner of the rim where the bead flange and bead seat meet for the bead to interlock the tire in to the rim also known as the bead lock (the respective tire will have a matching size radius): On a Car Rim it has a 6.5mm (.256”) Radius On a Motorcycle Rim it is 2.5mm (.098”) Radius The outer bead flange radius (the top outer edge of the rim): On a Car Rim it has 9.5mm (.374”) radius On a Motorcycle Rim have both a 12.5mm (.492”) and a 3mm (.118”) Radius Rim Diameters (Tolerances: For Motorcycles +/- .015" For Cars +/- .04") 15" CT 14.968" MT 15.08" 16" CT 15.968" MT 15.978 17" CT 17.189" MT 17.08 Now that we covered the rim, let’s get into the design differences between the two types of tires. This will be long but worth the read. Steering: First, let’s see examine the different factors and forces placed on a car tire: Since the precise effective location at which the road applies forces to the tire is unknown and the origin of the tire axis system is arbitrarily defined by the wheel and road geometry, three forces (Fx, Fy, and Fz) and three moments (Mx, My, and Mz) are required to define the road’s action upon the tire. Each of the three forces acts along its associated axis in the tire coordinate system. For example, Fx acts along X. The positive direction for each force is the same as the positive direction for its associated axis as indicated above. The three forces are defined as follows. Longitudinal force, Fx, is the force of the road on the tire along the X-axis. It accelerates or decelerates the vehicle dependent on whether the tire is driven or braked. If Fx is positive, the tire is driven, and Fx is called driving force. If Fx is negative, the tire is braked, and Fx is called braking force. Lateral Force, Fy, is the force of the road on the tire along the Y-axis. It forces the vehicle to move to the left or right dependent on whether the tire is steered and/or cambered to the left or right.