Taylor Trial Transcript
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Case No. SCSL-2003-01-T THE PROSECUTOR OF THE SPECIAL COURT V. CHARLES GHANKAY TAYLOR WEDNESDAY, 18 NOVEMBER 2009 9.30 A.M. TRIAL TRIAL CHAMBER II Before the Judges: Justice Richard Lussick, Presiding Justice Teresa Doherty Justice Julia Sebutinde Justice El Hadji Malick Sow, Alternate For Chambers: Ms Erica Bussey For the Registry: Ms Rachel Irura Mr Benedict Williams For the Prosecution: Mr Joseph Kamara Ms Brenda J Hollis Mr Mohamed A Bangura Mr Christopher Santora Ms Maja Dimitrova For the accused Charles Ghankay Mr Courtenay Griffiths QC Taylor: Mr Morris Anyah CHARLES TAYLOR Page 31946 18 NOVEMBER 2009 OPEN SESSION 1 Wednesday, 18 November 2009 2 [Open session] 3 [The accused present] 4 [Upon commencing at 9.30 a.m.] 09:30:23 5 PRESIDING JUDGE: Good morning. We'll take appearances, 6 please. 7 MS HOLLIS: Good morning, Mr President, your Honours, 8 opposing counsel. This morning for the Prosecution, the Acting 9 Prosecutor Joseph Kamara, Brenda J Hollis, Mohamed A Bangura, 09:33:29 10 Christopher Santora, and our case manager Maja Dimitrova. 11 PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you. Yes, Mr Anyah. 12 MR ANYAH: Good morning, Mr President. Good morning, your 13 Honours. Good morning, counsel opposite. I appear for the 14 Defence this morning, Morris Anyah. I am joined by two interns 09:33:47 15 from our office, Ms Haydee Dijkstal, and she has been with us 16 before, and joining us for the first time is Mr Michael Herz. 17 Mr President, Mr Griffiths is not present, as your Honours 18 can see. He should be joining us in one of the sessions later 19 today and Mr Taylor is aware of the circumstances of his absence 09:34:12 20 and I'm authorised to proceed. 21 PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, thank you, Mr Anyah. 22 Just before we do proceed, Mr Taylor, I will remind you, 23 you are still bound by your oath. 24 DANKPANNAH DR CHARLES GHANKAY TAYLOR: 09:34:22 25 [On former affirmation] 26 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS HOLLIS: [Continued] 27 Q. Good morning, Mr Taylor. 28 A. Good morning, counsel. 29 Q. Mr Taylor, yesterday we were looking at the presence of SCSL - TRIAL CHAMBER II CHARLES TAYLOR Page 31947 18 NOVEMBER 2009 OPEN SESSION 1 ECOMOG troops and United Nations military observers in Liberia 2 throughout various periods and we had reached the point where we 3 were beginning to look at the presence of these forces in your 4 country after you had assumed the office of President of Liberia. 09:34:59 5 Do you recall that, Mr Taylor? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. And even at the point of the elections, ECOMOG had begun to 8 reduce their forces quite significantly as had the UNOMIL mission 9 in Liberia. You recall that, yes, Mr Taylor? 09:35:18 10 A. Well, I don't recall the way you've put the statement. I 11 would disagree with the prefix - with the premise of it, but I 12 don't recall it in that way, that they had reduced significantly 13 prior to elections. I do not recall that. 14 Q. Mr Taylor, yesterday we talked about a point where ECOMOG 09:35:42 15 had increased their numbers to approximately 11,000 before your 16 election. Do you recall that? 17 A. Yes, I do. 18 Q. And that in July 1997, 4,000 ECOMOG were sent from Liberia 19 to Sierra Leone. Do you recall talking about that? 09:35:58 20 A. I recall talking about -- 21 Q. And after the election, further reductions occurred in the 22 ECOMOG forces. Do you recall talking about that? 23 A. After election, yes. 24 Q. And, in fact, as at the end of September, in regards to the 09:36:18 25 United Nations mission, the mission had ended and the presence of 26 UNOMIL had ended as of 30 September 1997. That's correct, is it 27 not, Mr Taylor? 28 A. That is correct. 29 Q. Now, at this time the force commander for ECOMOG was SCSL - TRIAL CHAMBER II CHARLES TAYLOR Page 31948 18 NOVEMBER 2009 OPEN SESSION 1 General Malu and we talked about that yesterday, correct? 2 A. That is correct, yes. 3 Q. And General Malu was a very distinguished general from 4 Nigeria. That's correct, is it not? 09:36:47 5 A. Well, he was the general, yes. 6 Q. He was a career soldier? 7 A. I don't know. I know he was a general. Career, I'm not 8 sure how long he had been in the service. 9 Q. Now, he had been placed in the position of ECOMOG force 09:37:03 10 commander by Sani Abacha; is that correct? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. Now, after you became President, you came into conflict 13 with General Malu on several occasions, did you not? 14 A. That is correct. 09:37:21 15 Q. And one of the main areas of conflict with General Malu was 16 General Malu's insistence that ECOMOG be the one to restructure 17 and train the Armed Forces of Liberia police and security forces, 18 correct? 19 A. That is incorrect. 09:37:38 20 Q. That is correct, is it not, Mr Taylor? 21 A. I said that is incorrect. That was not the main issue of 22 contention between General Malu and the Government of Liberia. 23 Q. Mr Taylor, I didn't say it was the main issue. I said one 24 of the main areas of conflict. 09:37:56 25 A. One of the main areas, yes. 26 Q. And General Malu insisted that it be ECOMOG who do the 27 restructuring and retraining based on his understanding of the 28 prior peace agreements that had been entered into. Isn't that 29 correct? SCSL - TRIAL CHAMBER II CHARLES TAYLOR Page 31949 18 NOVEMBER 2009 OPEN SESSION 1 A. Yes, that is correct. 2 Q. And General Malu also felt it very important that ECOMOG be 3 the one to restructure and retrain the military security forces 4 and the police to ensure that, indeed, these forces would reflect 09:38:28 5 a national composition. Isn't that correct? 6 A. That is correct, yes. 7 Q. And that, indeed, they would not reflect a factional 8 representation. That is correct, is it not? 9 A. That is correct, yes. 09:38:43 10 Q. And, indeed, you opposed General Malu on this because it 11 was your aim that these forces would reflect a factional 12 representation. Isn't that correct? 13 A. That is totally, totally incorrect and a misrepresentation 14 of the government's position. Totally incorrect. 09:38:58 15 Q. It was your vision, was it not, Mr Taylor, that these 16 forces would be filled with people who had been subordinate to 17 you in the past and would be loyal to you in the future? 18 A. That's total nonsense. Total nonsense. Totally incorrect. 19 There was a plan that was put together that was done nationally 09:39:17 20 with international assistance and the Government of Liberia 21 insisted that the Armed Forces of Liberia be trained by the 22 United States. We requested that. We made representations. We 23 had meetings on it. What my government's view was that Victor 24 Malu or no other general represented ECOMOG could dictate to the 09:39:44 25 government and people of Liberia what should be the actions 26 regarding the armed forces. That once the constitution of 27 Liberia had been reinstated as of my taking the oath of office on 28 August 2, 1997, it is - it was left with the government and the 29 people of Liberia to make the determination of their destiny with SCSL - TRIAL CHAMBER II CHARLES TAYLOR Page 31950 18 NOVEMBER 2009 OPEN SESSION 1 the assistance of ECOMOG in whatever area we wanted. This was 2 the position of my government. And this was communicated to the 3 UN, the United States government, everyone, and the United States 4 government did meet with the Liberian government to discuss 09:40:21 5 possible training of the armed forces. This is the picture. 6 Q. Mr Taylor, all of that was simply a smokescreen to ensure 7 that you were able to place your people in these various forces; 8 isn't that correct? 9 A. Total nonsense, no. Incorrect. 09:40:38 10 Q. And, indeed, as you progressed in your presidency, that is 11 exactly what you did, is it not? 12 A. Totally incorrect, no. 13 Q. You placed all of the people who were subordinate and loyal 14 to you in these various forces; isn't that correct? 09:40:49 15 A. That is totally, totally incorrect. 16 Q. Now, this disagreement with General Malu was an ongoing 17 disagreement during the remainder of his tenure as the forces 18 commander, correct? 19 A. That is correct. 09:41:05 20 Q. But there were other areas of disagreement with General 21 Malu as well, yes? 22 A. I want to just say that, as far as the Government of 23 Liberia was concerned, we didn't have any disagreement with Malu. 24 For me, Malu did not represent anything, except the forces. We 09:41:23 25 were having as a government discussions with ECOMOG, so while I'm 26 answering these questions, it was not a Malu issue.