Friends of Classic London Buses of the Fifties For those actively involved in or supporting the preservation of London buses, coaches and trolleybuses of the past

T 785, a green Country bus, working Central route 201 from Norbiton (NB 2 running number) to Kingston demonstrates the saloon entrance door which, for use on Central area routes, had to be kept locked in the open position to satisfy the , who had far too much say over bus operation in their area for far too long. Note the route number stencil over the entrance. This photograph is, I seem to remember, another of the collection we discovered in the archives at the museum in St Helens some years ago and as with many of the others, we don't know the photographer, date or location of the shot although I expect some of our experts will be able to help with at least the latter two items. Newsletter 176 April 2021

Opening Lines

Perhaps unsurprisingly, we didn't get everything entirely correct in the previous Newsletter when we notified everyone of Peter Gomm's death. It appears that he had three children, not four and also he had been involved at one stage in the ownership of another RF, 627, a fact I discovered while looking through a PSV Circle publication for some other information. I am also grateful to Paul Fleet for reminding me that Peter's first known attempt at bus and coach preservation was not with a London bus at all, but a former East Kent 1948 Leyland PS1/1 with Park Royal rear-entrance coachwork. This used to stand forlorn and apparently unwanted in a yard off the A6 on the way to Luton until Peter bought it. He passed it on to a Mr Saunders who lived in St Albans and kept the vehicle on his driveway, where I saw it and indeed met Mr Saunders an several occasions. Eventually the restored vehicle then found its way to Ward Jones at High Wycombe who, I believe, still has it. Incidentally, the gentleman at St Albans claimed to be the inventor of the Avdel rivet or monobolt which played such a part in the construction of the Leyland National and he showed me a hand-made prototype of the fixing tool for these things. This relied on hand power whereas of course production tools were normally pneumatic. Now, having set the record slightly more straight, let us proceed with some more reminiscences and then material omitted from Newsletter 175 for reasons of space – or a lack of it. Finally, the photo of Peter on the back of a bus featured David Thrower's RT 2794 and not as stated. 1 Peter Gomm – A Postscript Paul Fleet Just one more memory of Peter from me. In my ‘full time’ working life I have always been within the rail industry. In the middle 1980s I was a Station Manager, and during my time at Luton, British Rail were promoting a new video to deter children from trespassing on the railway, and of course staying clear of 25kV overhead wires, which were relatively new on the scene in that area.

I had made an appointment to visit Harlington Upper School, which was not far from the railway itself. The usual format was that to do the presentation one was included as part of the school assembly. On arrival, I pulled into the car park and immediately espied RF 146. When welcomed by the Headmaster I made a comment about it and he said “Oh, that’s for sale…but no one seems to want it…”

I think that was a Wednesday; when driving past the school the following Monday I noticed it had gone. I’d only mentioned it to one person in the meantime – yes, that was Peter – and he had saved yet another one. Peter was never one to procrastinate, and this was a good example – get in, buy it, get out, almost regardless of condition. Well done that man!

[It is perhaps worth pointing out that none of Peter's buses were owned by him, but by “Groups”; RF 308 was owned by the RF 308 Group, for instance. This particular “group” was his mother, and I believe the “RF 146 Group” was his brother. I am unsure why he did this, but he must have had his reasons. - Ed]

Peter Gomm Chris Wills I first met Peter at the occasion of the 150th. anniversary of Hertford East station on 31st. October 1993.

He had arranged a small event based on Hertford East Station using, Dave Johnson's RT 3496, RF 308 and GS 17, giving free rides around Hertford. Being determined to sample all three routes and vehicles, I ended up on RT 3496, driven by Dave and conducted by his wife Pam. Sitting on the nearside long seat at the back I had a very nice a long chat with Pam who was extremely friendly about owning a bus and the Register. During this conversation, I asked if you needed to be a bus owner to join the RT/RF Register, her reply was that she wasn't sure, but that I should talk to Peter when we got back to Hertford East Station. This I did and Peter said that I could join the Register without a bus, so I did.

Not having a bus of my own at this time, but holding a PSV licence, (it still was in those days), with my new contacts through Peter, I managed to get drives of other people's buses. Chiefly RF 308, which I took up to the North Norfolk Railway on a number of occasions for their "Thomas" weekends. Again through Peter I was introduced to Brian Simmonds at the first Hertford Running Day held on 12th. September 1999 and had the pleasure of driving RT 3254 on the 395 and 341 routes. This was my first introduction to RT 3254 and also my introduction to Tony Quince, who Brian and his son David worked for restoring mainly RTs and RFs.

I had quite few drives for Tony as well as RF 308 to various rallies during this time; also I bought RF 512 in March 1999, but owing to its condition, I still relied on other bus owners for a drive.

As a schoolboy, my ambition was to own my own RT and having grown up firstly near Guildford and then latterly in Stevenage, it had to be a green one.

Thanks to my association with Peter and the Register I finally managed to achieve this ambition when RT 3254 was put up for sale in the Newsletter, with Brian Simmonds as the go-between. After a few false starts I managed to finalise the deal and set off with a friend of mine to collect it from Sutton Coldfield and drive it back home. The longest single trip in both miles and time, I have ever done in a bus. So in November 2005, I had finally managed to achieve my childhood ambition and I am sure that the seeds that were sown between Peter and myself 8 years earlier at Hertford East had played a large part in the situation today. I will always be thankful to Peter for the part he has played in my time in bus ownership/preservation.

My very last contact with Peter, was last Christmas, when I received a Christmas card from him with some cash enclosed asking me for a copy of my book. I am very pleased that I managed to comply with his request in time for him to enjoy it. 2 Like all his friends and acquaintances my condolences to his family and he will be greatly missed.

Above: Paul Fleet's photo, taken on 27th November 1989, shows GS 17 being collected from Gamlingay. Peter Thatcher on the right is explaining something as he handed the bus over to our hero who wanted to get away. What was Peter G thinking at the time? Answers on a postcard (or the back of a £5 note.....).

Remember RT50 (1989) – and its four offspring rallies John A Gray David Thrower’s reminiscences of that outstanding 1989 event in Newsletter 174 call to mind the series of subsequent rallies put together by owners of buses that belonged to the RT/RF Register. Three were based on Staines (“RF40”, 26.5.91; “RT/RF Register’s Tribute to Sixty Years of LT”, 30.5.93; and “Staines 95”), 8.10.95 and one on Chertsey (“Black Cherry Fair – Chertsey 97”, 13.7.97).

I still have a few of each of the programmes. If you’d like to be taken back to these times, for a free copy just send a large (8 1/2” x 6 1/4”) s.a.e. (Large Stamp) with a note to say which of them you’d like to me at 19 Field Way, Cambridge, CB1 8RW. The 1991 and 1993 programmes include details of those LT buses and coaches booked to attend.

Trolleybuses and a Fallen Tree Steve Boulding When I was about 7 or 8, I'd been allowed to go off for a ride on my new bike after church on Sunday. It would have been about March, and very windy. By the time I'd done the two miles or so from Kenilworth Avenue, where we lived (nice and adjacent to both the main line by the concrete flyover and the west end of East Wimbledon Depot, as well as the District Line, along which there were frequent movements of SR EMUs ecs, as well as Q1 and U15 hauled freights having come via Point Pleasant Jct. and East ), to Raynes Park, it was really blowing a gale. At this point I really should have turned for home, but I was enjoying whizzing along at 15+mph without having to pedal, and found myself approaching aforementioned West Barnes Lane LC when a massive tree outside the block of flats* opposite the crossing suddenly crashed across the road, completely blocking it. In those days it was a trolleybus route - the 604/605 Wimbledon Town Hall - Hampton Court/Shepperton (I think) which 3 was one of the last strongholds of the quite modern Q1 class which lasted until the end in 1961 and were then sold to Spain where I believe they gave excellent service for many years, unconverted from right hand drive, I was told.

Anyway, both sets of wires stretched to within a couple of feet of the ground under the weight of the massive trunk but didn't snap - just as well, or I probably wouldn't be sitting here now to tell the tale - and a copper showed up shortly and told all the gawping motorists to turn round and use Coombe Lane and the Kingston Bypass instead, and then instructed me and several other irritating brats who'd foregathered by this time to get lost - naturally, we retreated a couple of dozen yards just out of range and awaited developments. Remarkably quickly, no more than about half an hour later, a couple of large LT grey service lorries turned up - as they appeared from the Raynes Park direction rather than Kingston I think they would probably have turned out from "Carshalton" (code CN) trolleybus depot which was actually in Westmead Road, Sutton (not far from John Smith's, he of Lens of Sutton fame, second, larger bookshop, although he didn't move there until about 1976). (LT's Sutton - motor bus - garage, code A, was half a mile away in Bushey Road). They would have come via Sutton Common Road, Tudor Drive and Grand Drive. If they'd come from the routes' home garage, Fulwell, they would have taken longer and arrived from the Kingston direction. There was a gang of about ten men. They'd obviously encountered this situation before and set to work as soon as the gaffer confirmed the power was off, with a mixture of chainsaws and huge old fashioned two-man felling saws, cutting off the top and bottom of the trunk but leaving the middle section weighing the wires down. When they were ready they eased them along to the cut edge and then stood well away while they shot back upwards with an almighty twang. Unfortunately on one side the wire caught under the metal hooks along the side of one of the lorries, used for securing the ropes holding on the canvas load-protecting cover, and the tension was such that it lifted the whole lorry a few inches off the ground on one side. The only solution was for all ten of them to get both hands on the wire and pull down in unison with all their strength and let go at exactly the right moment, which fortunately was achieved without anyone getting injured, though it all looked pretty scary. The assembled company gave them a cheer, even grumpy PC Plod. The remaining section of trunk was then cut up into three smaller bits, and all six or seven sections were then piled up into a fetching sort of sculptural arrangement on the forecourt of the block of flats* where they remained for well over twenty years, only finally being removed sometime after 1980. The block is still there, I think it's actually called West Barnes Mansions, you can see it from the Epsom- bound train on your right just before the LC. An attractive Art Deco/Ocean Liner Moderne building, probably late 1920s or early 1930s, in the same style as the famous but much larger Du Cane Court in Balham High Road just south of Balham Stn. Behind the block at the time was the 20 acres of the "Carter's Tested Seeds" nursery, a riot of colour from early spring to late autumn with the huge glasshouse up on the slope behind, a scaled-down copy of the Crystal Palace, always a joy to behold from the train. Sadly, they were taken over by Sutton's Seeds in the late 1960s and they moved to Devon. The site was bought by the London Borough of Merton and just about the most hideous and shoddily-built brutalist modern social housing estate you're likely to see in a month of Sundays was built in its place, ironically named the Carter's Estate! [Thanks indeed to Nigel Horder for forwarding this which was originally part of an item about Southern Electric trains. Nigel asks: “What was the procedure in the LT trolleybus department when an incident such as this occurred, and where did the Service Department vehicles appear from? I recollect, I think, that a Leyland Cub tower wagon was kept by a sub station in London Road, Kingston Upon Thames (a few yards from my old school), and which would probably have been the service vehicle nearest to this incident, although that was red in colour and not grey as recounted by Steve Boulding.”] Weymann's 21 st Anniversary Paul Van der Hulks A question/some research, which perhaps the Friends of Classic London Buses of the Fifties can help with?

Reference page 123 of John Senior's The Weymann Story, Part 2; In November 1953 MCW celebrated its 21st anniversary and staged an exhibition of 6 double deckers and 4 single deckers in an LTE bus garage. Am trying to find out which garage, what buses were featured and are there any photos of the event?

The reason is a friend in Sheffield knows a Sheffield double decker was involved and is trying to find out which one. 4 Can anyone help?

An interesting poser, my thoughts were Addlestone as close to Weymann's but then it could also be GF or if Central area Victoria GM for its central London location, or even PB or Loughton as they both had excess space and PB reasonably close to the A6/A5 and a very early Aldenham works. All total guesses of course though!

[As always, answers welcome from our many knowledgable readers. - Ed]

Edition 174 (February) of the Newsletter Raymond Thorn In that month's Newsletter, you carry an article by Alan Bond which mentions the Ken Moseley Collection of slides, negatives, and DVDs which were passed to the London Bus Museum.

I can confirm that the museum does retain the Collection. Perhaps you would include an appropriate comment in the next edition to that effect. I am LBM's Curatorial Manager.

The Issue of What to Wear Bob Wingrove On the 339 bus service that links Epping LT station with the Epping Ongar heritage railway, as is well known we tend to use RT family vehicles.

We try our best to uphold the standards laid down by London Transport in that the crews try to wear appropriate uniform. Having solved the jacket problem and now have correct styled jackets for the period (no, not those nasty Polyester ones from Yarmo, but correct ones made out of cotton duck) we turned to the problem of caps.

It took some 3 years of searching to get caps made, after all as we said to them we can talk bus but we can’t talk ‘cloth’! An original cap was used and the clever people in Leeds managed to get rid of 50 years of fading to get back to the true colour. Then a bolt of cloth some 40m long by 2m wide had to be purchased. The piping which is a ‘sage green’ came from the south coast where it’s a standard cloth and also matched perfectly.

Then the cloth was sent to a cap manufacturer in Liverpool who have made caps since 1890 – at least that’s the oldest sample they still have on the shelves. Our first batch covered most of the crews for the 339 but not all, so it’s time to have another batch of caps made. So for now we can offer the following COUNTRY area caps. Green for winter or rubber-topped white for summer. The rubberised tops are exactly the same as was issued. The rough costs will be £60 per cap; however, if we can make the batch a larger one then the unit cost comes down. The ladies are not forgotten either. Since no one actually makes them now, we have paid the development costs to have the ‘airline’ style caps for conductresses (issued in 1967) made so that husband and wife can both be properly attired.

Only have Country area at the moment, still trying to source the exact blue shade for the piping for Central buses. The caps come complete with the holes in the right position for the cap badge. If anyone is interested, please can they send me a mail to get their name added to the batch. [email protected] also we are always on the lookout for more volunteers for the 339.

Wanted David Thrower Wanted, an NN (front ultimate) blind for Putney (AF). Doesn't have to be RT era, RM era will do. Even DMS era at a pinch, but would prefer older version as by the time Putney was full of DMSs, some of the traditional destinations were no longer offered on the blinds.

This is to enable RML 2452 to adopt a Putney identity. The bus luckily really did work at Putney, for no less than ten years in fact. For a fairly short time, I lived in Putney, and have very fond memories of RMLs on the 14, 74 and particularly the 37, which I regularly used between Putney and Richmond. In addition, a schoolfriend worked at AF as a summer holiday job, and I have further happy memories of travelling (free, but please don't tell anyone.....) the entire length of the routes, Hounslow to Peckham and Putney to Kings Cross and Homerton in particular. 5 Good condition preferable, but it certainly doesn't have to be mint. Even an incomplete one would be better than nothing. Contact me at 49 Ackers Road, Stockton Heath, Cheshire WA4 2DZ, tel 01925- 264156, or email [email protected]

Note: The following item is absolutely not an “April Fool” hoax but perfectly genuine. I mention this because it just happens to be in the April Newsletter but only because of the lack of room last time. There really is nothing new under the sun, as they say. - Editor.

The First Ever Bus Rally? Paul London The attached is about 90 years too early for the "Friends" normal period of interest, but I'm afraid I couldn't resist sending it. This was uncovered during a major project which has been started by the TfL Corporate Archive to transcribe and index the early (handwritten) Minute Books of the LGOC, other Underground Group companies and the Metropolitan Railway to make them more accessible, with most of the tasks being done by volunteers working remotely. I don't think we will outshine Tony Beard's amazing work any time soon though; there won't be much mention of motor buses in the next 45 years' worth of minutes..... Extract London General Omnibus Company Limited Minutes of a General Board Meeting of the above Company held on 5 April 1860 “1446 Read letter from Sir CP Roney recommending a procession of Omnibuses through the Streets of London on 1st May. Resolved that the Board do not think it consistent with the interest of the Shareholders to incur any heavy expenses in such a matter, but that it be further discussed when the new Omnibuses at present in course of construction at the Company’s works are nearer completion.”

Above: Alan Bond's photograph of RTL 68 at Basingstoke ambulance station, 5th July 1975 with the late Ted Gearing (station officer) in the cab. In Newsletter 174 we included an item about roof-box RTL 1427 and new owner Antony Funnell commented that this bus was now in New Zealand, where indeed it has been for many years now. The daughter of a friend of Alan's lives not far from the bus and keeps an eye on it. Alan adds: “Ted Brakell sold another roofbox RTL (247) to Sentosa Island Devlopment along with the magnificent open top RT 3420 which I drove a number of times. I delivered it to Tilbury for export

6 to the far East and after a lift back to Richmond, I took another RT over via the Rotherhithe tunnel, the first, and only, time I have driven a double decker through either of the Thames Tunnels. I have attached a photo of RT 3420 on the day that I drove it for a campaign to do with our joining the EU. The picture shows it parked outside the family home at Colindale with my dear old dad standing just outside the front door. The Alperton driver of a turning 79 did a double take as he circumnavigated the green and parked on the set down stop across the road and came over for a chat. I'm afraid the photo is a bit fuzzy so I will try another scan of the print and see if I can get a sharper image. What wouldn't I give for the drive of an RT now, always assuming that I could manage to climb into the cab.”

Whatever Happened to RF 298? I referred in “Opening Lines” to discovering that Peter Gomm had been involved in the preservation of RF 627; I found this out while searching through PSV Circle publication LT12, the Fleet History of the GS, RC, RF, RFW and RW classes, and I was doing that because a couple of years ago I received an e-mail from someone called Lucy Gold in Wales who was looking for an RF, preferably a green one, for wedding transport. The reason for wanting a green RF was that, as she said, “dad used to own one, in Pakistan. They were missionaries out there for 21 years. He ran a conference centre and needed a vehicle, and when he prayed about it, he was told he would get a vehicle with green wheels. When his friend contacted him to say he'd found a bus, dad wasn't sure as he was thinking of a transit van size and asked him, what colour are the wheels and the friend said "green". So he travelled back to the UK and picked up an RF Green Line London Bus and drove it back via the Karikorum highway! Pakistan actually turned out to be a great place for vehicle parts and the bus was incredibly sturdy lasting until the day we left in 1996, even through a flood!”

Naturally, I asked which RF it was but all she could tell me was the Pakistani registration, GAD 1031, which was no help at all. A search revealed that only RF 298 was known to have gone to Pakistan, and that it was recorded as being used for “missionary work” so logically it had to be that vehicle. RF 298 was, of course a Green Line vehicle that had been converted from a bus and was originally RF 697 (NLE 697).

I mentioned this in passing to Paul Fleet and he provided a link to a site which indicated that the bus was still active in Pakistan in 2013. For those interested I reproduce the link, but be aware that this item is more about religion than the bus but if you don't mind that, the story is quite interesting.

7 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http%3A%2F%2Fodysseuslahori.blogspot.com %2F2013%2F06%2FTravelPakistan.html&psig=AOvVaw0yPZXhSYlAA_DW6GVC2xqY&ust=1614631087744000&s ource=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNi33uG3je8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

Above: RF 298 in Pakistan, photos supplied by Lucy Gold. The gentleman with the beard is her father. The PSV Circle records the bus being with “A. Witt, London E.1. 1983 and fitted with coach seats for religious work – emigrated to Pakistan with the vehicle 9/84” but this may not be quite correct as Lucy's 8 father obtained the bus from Alan Witt in the UK, which implies that the RF emigrated, but Mr Witt did not.

Musings on Newsletter 174 Paul Van der Hulks The RW Mercer referred to is Richard Mercer, owner of RM 40 amongst I believe a few other vehicles and is still going strong. I believe he is North Wales based these days and trades various transport related paraphernalia on eBay.

RT50 was indeed a superb day, fondly remembered including I seem to remember TV coverage of the build up to the event, with RT 1 in Chiswick, if my memory serves me correctly.

John A Gray’s article on the RF event in Finsbury Park in 1992, gosh was it that long ago, was certainly a day to remember. I seem to recall that John was referred to as the “fat controller” no offence meant then or now, and I attended on RF 492 with the late Malcolm Padbury. The press were in attendance and the attached photo appeared in the Islington Gazette shortly afterwards. I only ever managed to obtain the newspaper cutting and not a copy of the actual photo, so apologies for the quality. I don’t know who the ladies were pictured with me, but the bell punch I am wearing and using, was probably the last Bell Punch machine to be overhauled in Chiswick.

9 I recall purchasing it at a LOTS sale complete with ticket rack and used tickets at the annual sale at the Royal Horticultural Halls, (I think that was where it was) in the mid 1980’s and at point the workings inside went ping. A letter (pre email etc.) to George Sawyer, ticket machine manager at Chiswick resulted in a letter back and an invitation to deliver the machine to him at the Works and he would have a look, whilst he waited for his retirement and Chiswick being knocked down around him. Machine duly delivered, a few weeks later another letter, advising the machine was all repaired and as good as new and ready to collect. A further visit to George took place and he showed me his collection of machines on the shelves in his office. Included in his collection was his polished cased LT ultimate complete with LT ultimate tickets, now in my collection following its auction a couple of years back.

Muswell Hill (MH) did in fact operate green RFs for a period in possibly 1969 and presumably covering overhauls, I believe they were operated with the doors in the locked open position. These Green RFs were at MH late 1969 - 545/63/70/80/98,602/3/8/17/27/32/85

I have also attached a photo of TD95 at the Bromley running day in December 2016, as a follow up to Mark Jameson’s musings on TDs in service and TD 89, for clarity in LT service, TDs did not have platform doors, that on 89 being a “retro” fit, but one that makes sense if the bus is to be used for private hire.

Now, you produce loads of Newsletters without a mention of TDs and suddenly everyone has something to say – well, no objections there, of course.

TDs Again Bob Martin I liked the post war T and TD classes but never had the money to buy one. These two, TD 105 and 114 would have been prime candidates.

TD 105 along with TD 100 (hidden in garage) were sold to H Sullivan (Electrical Contractor) London SE15 1/63. TD 104 was added 11/63. There was no subsequent disposal for any of these vehicles.

TD 114 BSP Industries,Borehamwood 2/63 then Elstree and Borehamwood Rotary Club by 7/65. Again nothing further known.

10 One for body spares would have been TD 103 originally sold to the WVS along with TDs 86 and 124 Wilstead near Bedford 3/63. All three had their engines removed. TD 86 and 124 were scrapped locally. TD 103 went to a farm at How End as a store shed for many years.

Good decision adding the early Engineering Committee Meeting notes they are very interesting.

TD 105 (upper) and TD 114 – both pictures by Bob Martin. 11 Above: TD 103 in use as a farm store. It's not there any longer, so no need to go looking for it. Photo by Bob Martin.

Above: RF 404, converted to a caravan and hiding in a shed, and RF 508 (together with a Citroen BX Estate – best car the editor ever owned but not this specific example!) at Clewer, Somerset on 13 September 1993 in the ownership of a Mr Peters. RF 404 had been a caravan since 11/76 and in May 1984 passed to a Mr Tilsbrook, an Australian, for a tour of Europe before being sold to Peters in 1986, 12 reputedly for preservation, but he left it as a caravan. RF 508 had a career in preservation, then with two coach operators and as a school bus before passing to Peters in 1985, also for preservation. At some time subsequently both buses found their way to Keswick, Cumberland (we believe Mike Nash had a hand in this, in his capacity as a dealer) and in due course David Thrower bought 508 for preservation. When we collected it, 404 was still fitted out as a caravan of sorts and looking rather forlorn. The question is – what became of RF 404? It is not listed as a preserved vehicle by the PSV Circle but Ian's Bus Stop has it with Price, Gillingham in January 2013, so it could nevertheless survive. The photo is by Paul Fleet.

GS 52 For Sale in Ireland London Transport Guy GS 52 (MXX 352). Needs recommissioning and also vacuum pump to be attached to engine etc. Exterior/interior original, situated in Southern Ireland. Price £10,000. Contact Val O'Sullivan, email [email protected]

[Editor's note: This has been advertised elsewhere for several months now and I am unsure if it remains unsold. The current situation with Covid may have impacted on any intended sale, so if you want a GS it may be worth asking.]

Minutes of Meetings supplied by Tony Beard

Due to the infrequency of the Bus Allocation Sub-Committee’s meetings, some changes continued to be made as occasion demanded. The first filed is a letter date 16 January 1948 from J Burnell, Operating Manager (Central Buses), to J J Mills, the Secretary of the T&GWU regarding two points he had raised, the first being the allocation of new buses to Catford Garage. Here there was likely to be a delay of three months because the height of the RT was half an inch greater than the current standard height of double-deck buses requiring some alterations to be made to the garage. In the circumstances it was proposed to allocate to Upton Park and Cricklewood on alternate weeks after which, should the work be completed, the garage would receive buses on alternate weeks with Seven Kings.

The second issue considered the views of the staff at Catford Garage who preferred the RT vehicles to be allocated to routes other than the 54 such as Route 75 which, like Route 54 was entirely self- contained at Catford requiring 31 buses. Another suggestion from staff mentioned self-contained Routes 124 (15 buses) and Route 160 (9 buses) leading to a reduction by 9 of the vehicles allocated. Burnell had no objections to any of the proposed changes but mentioned that it should be clearly understood that no changes would be made to the buses allocated to Route 1 as that service operated with Cricklewood which would eventually receive new buses for the service. Mills replied on 25 October recording that he and his colleagues had no objection to the proposed allocation schedule.

Burnell wrote to his counterpart in the Country Buses and Coaches Division, B H Harbour, on 3 March regarding comments yet to be received from Durrant to allocate a further 514 RT buses to Central Area garages. Once Durrant’s response had been received, the Allocations Sub-Committee would convene to consider this proposal and an alternative to that from Harbour.

London Transport

Bus Allocation Advisory Sub-Committee Minutes of the Meeting No 4 held on Thursday 15 April 1948 at 55 Broadway SW1

Present: Mr Burnell (in the Chair)

Messrs.Counihan Harbour Haines Lennard Mayhew Mills

Secretary Mr Shaw Scott 13 19.4.48 Minutes of the Previous Meeting

The minutes of Meeting No 3 held on 31 December 1947 were confirmed.

30.4.48 Allocation of Buses to the Central Area

The Chairman submitted the proposed allocation of the second batch of RT buses for the Central Area. Of the first allocation of 520 (now adjusted to 514), some 371 were now in service and it was necessary to agree on the allocation of the next 525 buses RT buses which would be delivered during the latter half of 1948 and the same time as the Country Area was taking its allocation of 227 new green RTs. The proposed allocation is at Appendix One.

Mr Burnell explained the allocation had been devised in order to complete routes so that RTs would not be running against other types and also in order to ensure a reasonable degree of parity between the Divisions. He added that all concerned should appreciate that any local alterations made to this allocation would upset a carefully pre-arranged plan and that no local variations therefrom should be considered.

The priority of allocating the buses in accordance with the proposal was discussed, Mr Mills suggesting that half completed routes should receive priority before new routes were started. It was agreed to circulate the proposed allocation of the second batch of new RTs (Appendix One refers) in order that all concerned could study the proposals in order that priority of allocation could be agreed at an early date.

21.4.48 Central Bus Position

Mr Burnell referred to the cessation of deliveries of new buses on account of the strike in the bodybuilding industry which would cause all present programmes to be delayed, while old vehicles continued to be condemned for scrapping (due to their condition rendering them unfit for further service and beyond economical repair), with a consequent reduction in fleet strength.

A discussion ensued as to the scrapping procedure in the course of which it was pointed out that the situation had altered since last year when only petrol types were considered for scrapping; it and now become necessary to scrap the oil-engined LTs (of which there had been nearly 1,000) at the same rate as STs.

Mr Lennard gave the following details of the types and numbers being withdrawn to date:

Type For Scrapping For Learners ST Petrol 141 (including 34 open back) 29 (including 15 open back) LT Petrol 63 (including 55 open back) 8 (including 7 open back) STL Petrol 50 15 LT Oil 125 10 Totals 379 62

These figures compare with 371 new RTs received until the cessation of deliveries as from 5 April.

22.4.48 Allocation of Buses to the Country Area

The Operating Manager (Country Buses and Coaches) submitted a statement showing the allocation of 227 new RT buses to 12 Country Garages together with an indication of a priority order of allocation. This allocation had been previously examined by Mr Haines, who now confirmed his agreement therewith. Appendix Two sets out the agreed allocation in detail.

14 The allocation was noted and agreed.

23.4.46 Allocation of Single Deck Buses

(a) Country Area

Mr Lennard stated that five of the new AEC Regal Mark III single deckers had been delivered to date. The following allocation has already been agreed subject to confirmation by this Sub-Committee.

Hemel Hempstead 19 Watford (Leavesden Road) 11 Total 30

The allocation of these single deckers in the Country Area was agreed.

(b) Central Area

Mr Burnell gave preliminary details of the 100 Leyland single deckers which had been scheduled for delivery commencing June 1948. In view, however, of the uncertainty of deliveries due to the present body building situation and the Government’s export plans, it was useless to prepare an allocation as yet especially since the turning circle was unknown, so no attempt could be made at route allocation. He suggested that a further meeting be held when the position was clearer.

With reference to the single decker types to be withdrawn when these new Leyland’s became available, Mr Burnell stated that the worst of the LT and T petrol buses would receive preference but he hoped to retain sufficient of these in service to allow some augmentation of single decker routes.

24.4.48 Allocation of 8ft Wide Buses

The Chairman indicated that at the end of the year deliveries should commence of 500 8ft wide buses which would be allocated to garages in the outer Central Area for working on a series of routes which had been agreed upon in conjunction with the Police and Ministry of Transport Officials following practical tests with two “mock-up” vehicles built to increased width. Routes approved would absorb 470 of the new vehicles, thus leaving 30 for spares and in a number of cases 7ft 6ins wide RTs would be displaced. In view of uncertainty regarding deliveries and other factors, the actual allocation to garages is being deferred to a subsequent meeting of this sub-committee.

At this stage it was thought inadvisable to operate 8ft wide buses over any tram routes. It had not been possible to obtain approval for these vehicles to operate over any Country Area routes.

Note: When sufficient 8ft wide buses are available, it is intended to carry out a large scale test on inner area routes in conjunction with the authorities concerned. Should this test fail, then the 8ft wide buses would revert to their former routes and garages in the Outer Central Area.

25.4.48 Re-Allocation of Buses in the Central Area

A discussion took place on the Re-allocation of buses following an enquiry by Mr Mills as to the procedure adopted in re-allocating older types displaced by new RT deliveries. Mr Mayhew, explaining the position, pointed out that garages losing STL oil engined buses for overhaul would not, until availability improves, necessarily receive the same type back, unless the garage is operated entirely by oil fuel. A similar effect is caused by the withdrawal of LT types. The only buses available for replacement of these losses will be 15 ST petrol buses released in consequence of new RT deliveries. It was thus inevitable that certain garages should on one hand tend to increase their proportion of petrol buses and, on the other that the seating capacity should tend to decline due to the introduction of STs in place of 56-seaters. This position, would, of course, right itself in time.

26.4.48 Green Line Coaches

In response to an enquiry from Mr Haines, Mr Harbour stated that the present coach fleet was not in need of replacement although the future design of both single and double-deck coaches was now actively under review; as soon as conditions warranted any steps being taken with regard to the placing of orders, representatives of the Union should be consulted as to desirable features of design.

26.4.49 Training of Drivers on RT Buses

Mr Burnell referred to the additional number of RTs necessary for the two-day training procedure now adopted. Mr Mayhew suggested the allocation of some new vehicles to for operation on Route 14 in order to release RT2s for training purposes elsewhere.

In view, however, of the cessation of deliveries from the various contractors as a result of the present strike, Mr Burnell ruled that training of drivers on RT buses be slowed until deliveries recommence.

It was therefore agreed that, when deliveries of new buses revert to normal, new RTs should be allocated to Putney Bridge for operation on Route 14, so releasing pre-war RTs for training and that in the meantime the training programme should be restricted. Appendix One Bus Allocation Sub-Committee

Proposed Allocation of the Second Batch of new RT buses (7ft 6ins wide)for the Central Area Following the First Batch of Allocations Already Agreed Consisting of 514 for Central (As per Appendix One of Meeting No 3) and 227 for Country (as per Appendix Two herewith)

Suggested Routes Garage Route No Route No Route No Route No Total A Division Bromley 61 11 119 12 25 Catford 89 14 15 Croydon 166/A 16 17 Elmers End 194 36 38 Old Kent Road 21 18 19 Sidcup 21 18 51 15 132 11 161 15 62 B Division Barking 87 30 32 Dalston 9 18 34 Muswell Hill 43 21 125 6 32 Seven Kings 139 11 15 Tottenham 41 32 31 West Green 29 35 37 C Division Hammersmith 17 31 72 18 51 Holloway 134 14 15 Hounslow 81 18 116 9 117 18 47 Mortlake 9 36 38 Potters Bar 29 13 14

16 Total required: 525* Note: Grouping of garages in pairs, to each of which deliveries are made in alternate weeks will be continued

Completion of Routes: 9, 17, 21 (group), 29, 41, 43, 47, 51 (group) 61, 72, 81, 87, 89, 116, 117, 119, 125, 132, 134, 139, 161, 166/A and 194 Summary

Division A Division B Division C Bromley 66 Barking 32 Cricklewood Catford 69 Dalston 34 Hammersmith Croydon 57 Leyton 77 Holloway Elmers End 38 Muswell Hill 32 Hounslow Old Kent Road 19 Seven Kings 43 Middle Row Sidcup 62 Tottenham 34 Mortlake Division A Total 311 Upton Park 48 Potters Bar West Green 37 Turnham Green Division B Total 337 Willesden Division C Total Fleet Total 1039* * includes engineering spares Appendix Two Bus Allocation Sub-Committee

Proposed Allocation of 227 new RT buses for the Country Area

Order of Garage No to be For Operation on Allocation Allocated Routes 1 Tring 9 301 2 Hemel Hempstead 23 301,302,314,316 3 Leatherhead 12 418 4 Grays 7 370 5 Watford (High Street) 12 345,346 6 Hertford 19 310 7 Northfleet 9 487,488 8 Windsor 8 457/A 9 St Albans 10 330 10 Epping 11 339,396 11 Watford (High Street) 21 306,334/A 12 Leatherhead 6 468 13 Grays 12 371 14 Reigate 7 406 15 Leatherhead 12 406 16 Hatfield 24 303/A,340,341 17 Hertford 2 341 18 St Albans 2 341 19 Watford (High Street) 10 311,312 20 Windsor 11 417,484

Total 227

From the Minutes of the Engineering Committee Meeting No 17 held on 13 November 1933

Special Expenditure Requisition

The following Special Expenditure Requisition was submitted for approval and the signature of the Vice- Chairman: 17 D13 for the modification of pillars and screens to improve the driver’s range of vision on 80 omnibuses transferred from Thomas Tilling and for the provision of drivers’ emergency windows on 283 omnibuses transferred from Messrs Thomas Tilling at a cost of £1,910.7s, the work to be executed by the Engineer (Central Omnibuses) in accordance with an earlier minute.

High Road Leyton – Proposed Widening: Effect on Tramway Tracks

Mr A V Mason submitted a memorandum dated 9 November, on behalf of Mr T E Thomas, reporting that the Leyton Borough Council was unable to pay any part of the cost of doubling the tramway track in connection with the Leyton High Road widening, as the Essex County Council were not prepared to increase their contribution.

It was accordingly agreed:

(a) that no steps be taken to double the track in question.

(b) that Mr T E Thomas endeavour to secure, wherever possible, that any alterations to tramway track which become desirable in connection with any road improvements, be included by the Local Authorities in their scope of the scheme from the outset.

Hertford Garage Mr Heaps submitted drawings showing the number of alternative plans for the proposed garage at Hertford. The Vice-Chairman gave instructions for the preparation and submission of a further drawing showing a general arrangement on the lines of one already submitted but with the buildings at the back of the site leaving the space between the buildings and the road for use as a forecourt until it is required for an extension to the garage.

Bromley Garage

At an inspection of Bromley Garage on 10 November, it was decided:

(a) that Mr Durrant in consultation with Mr Richardson submit drawings and estimates for a complete scheme of improvements at Bromley Garage to bring it up to the standard of the new General garages (in respect of all office and auxiliary accommodation, including stores, and all mechanical equipment) and that in this connection the Chief Staff Officer be asked to report whether the provision of a canteen is recommended.

(b) that Mr Buller submit a plan showing the boundaries of the Board’s surplus land adjoining the garage with a view to the purchase of a further strip along the south edge of the land at the back, if this is required to permit of an extension of the garage for its full width. (Alternatively, if the Board already owns the necessary land for this purpose, Mr Buller is to review the position of the fence, which would not appear to mark the boundary).

(c) the efficient arrangements for paying the staff be instituted forthwith and that Messrs Durrant and Richardson report in due course that the inefficient methods, observed at the inspection, were not reported on the following Friday.

(d) that Mr Duncan arranges as soon as possible for the removal of old Tilling posters and the display of suitable posters of the Board on the poster positions at the front of the garage.

Elmers End Garage At an inspection of Elmers End Garage on 10 November, it was decided that Mr Durrant should submit a drawing and estimate for the provision of two additional pits at this garage so that Elmers End and Croydon can be grouped.

Croydon Garage At an inspection of Croydon Garage on 10 November, it was decided:

18 (a) the Mr Durrant, in consultation with Mr Richardson, should submit for approval a drawing showing the final scheme for the replanning and modernisation of Croydon Garage, on the basis that the elevated portion at the back beyond the first run in from Napier Road will ultimately be abandoned and the garage extended over the site of some of the cottages in Napier Road, immediately west of the first run in, so that any improvements undertaken in the meantime may be consistent with such final scheme.

(b) that Mr Butler should submit a plan showing which of the cottages in Napier Road are owned by the Board and report what approximate cost the Board could obtain vacant possession in the early future and at what date the current leases expire.

(c) that Mr Duncan arrange as soon as possible for the removal of old Tilling posters and the display of suitable posters of the Board on the poster positions at the front of the garage.

Drivers’ Report Sheets and Coachmakers’ Log Books – Central Omnibuses Arising out of an inspection of the forms in use at Elmers End Garage, the Vice-Chairman gave Mr Durrant and Mr Richardson instructions to consider the possible advantages of a system of cards to replace the existing Drivers’ Report Sheets and Coachmakers’ Log Books in use at garages.

Omnibuses Transferred from Messrs Thomas Tilling Ltd – Fitment of Self-Starters Consideration was given to a memorandum, dated 11 November, submitted by Mr Durrant with reference to the policy and cost of equipping with self-starters 283 omnibuses transferred from Messrs Thomas Tilling or alternatively with anti-backfire starting handles.

It was decided that 283 omnibuses transferred from Thomas Tilling Ltd should be equipped with electric starters (including a complete change of batteries and containers) at a cost of £10,471 and that the proposal to equip these vehicles with anti-backfire starting handles be dropped.

Leyland Torque Convertor – Proposed Trial In accordance with a recommendation by Mr Durrant, it was decided that, subject to the concurrence of the Managing Director of the AEC, Mr Durrant enters into an arrangement with Messrs Leyland for the supply on suitable terms of one Leyland torque convertor to be tested on a standard Regent omnibus as soon as possible and two further torque convertors of the same type for an extended trial if the first proves satisfactory.

Interior Colour Schemes for Omnibuses (Central) Mr Durrant reported that of the three interior colour schemes recently tried for Central Omnibuses, the departments concerned favoured brown rather than green and green rather than blue. It was accordingly decided that after completion of the present experiment of adopting a green interior for 120 omnibuses, a brown colour scheme be tried on the next 100 omnibuses to be dealt with.

Staff Transferred from Messrs Thomas Tilling – Consolidation of Conditions Mr Durrant submitted a memorandum dated 9 November, setting out preliminary proposals for levelling the conditions and duties of staff employed at Tilling and General garages at a total ultimate cost to the Board of £9,075 per annum of which £4,832 would be an immediate charge upon the Board and the balance would be incurred in the course of time as and when the need arose in consequence of the proposals to replace wastage of staff at present regarded as surplus.

The proposals set out in the memorandum were approved and Mr Durrant was to confer with the Unions as may be required in order to give these proposals effect.

From the Minutes of the Engineering Committee Meeting No18 held on 20 November 1933

Special Expenditure Requisition N3/7 for the purchase of 3.47 acres of freehold land in Erith Road, Bexley Heath for a Trolley Bus Depot, at a cost of £4,245 in accordance with a minute of the Vice-Chairman’s Estates Meeting. This was approved.

19 Tramway Junction at City Road and Old Street Mr A V Mason submitted a memorandum, dated 18 November, on behalf of Mr T E Thomas recommending that the junction curves between City Road and Old Street, which have not been used for a number of years, be removed as soon as possible at a cost of £790 offset by using the salved material to the value of £185 and estimated to save £450 per annum on maintenance.

The proposal was accordingly approved.

From the Minutes of the Engineering Committee Meeting No19 held on 27 November 1933

Trolley Bus Proposals – Turning of Trolley Buses in Bedford Square In view of the public protest against the proposal to operate trolleybuses through the west side of Bedford Square, the Vice-Chairman gave Mr T E Thomas instructions, in conjunction with the Parliamentary Officer, to discuss with the Bedford Estate the possibility of an alternative turning point on the estate and to explain to them that the Board does not desire to interfere with the amenities of Bedford Square if a satisfactory alternative point can be found.

Elmers End Garage Mr Durrant submitted drawings showing the position of two additional pits to be provided at Elmers End Garage with a view to grouping this garage with Croydon and reported that the estimated cost of these pits was approximately £657, owing mainly to the need for underpinning the main wall.

It was decided that in view of the high cost of the proposal be dropped to provide two additional pits at Elmers End Garage and arrangements be made, if necessary, for a small amount of dock work to be carried out at the subsidiary garage (Croydon) when the two garages are grouped.

Catford Garage Mr Durrant reported that the estimated cost of providing the additional pits at Catford Garage was £300 and that provision for pumping would be necessary owing to the presence of water.

The Vice-Chairman gave Mr Durrant instructions to consider, as an alternative, effective arrangements for running the omnibuses up ramps on to bridges with or without shallow pits instead of providing pits at full depth. In the meantime, a decision as to the alterations at Catford Garage was deferred.

Croydon Garage –Traffic Offices Consideration was given to proposals for the reconstruction of traffic offices at Croydon Garage, estimated to cost £450 with temporary accommodation being provided in the coachbuilders’ room while alterations are carried out.

This was approved on the understanding that a temporary partition only will be provided in the coachbuilders’ room and an SER would be submitted accordingly.

Hertford Garage – Proposed Design Mr Heaps re-submitted a drawing showing the proposed general arrangement of Hertford Garage together with an alternative scheme of having the building at the back of the site and leaving space between the building and the road for use as a forecourt until it is required for the extension of the garage. He reported that the cost of the latter would be approximately £1,200 more that the former.

In these circumstances it was decided that plans be developed for approval on the basis of the original proposals in having the building on the road frontage and the space for extension at the rear and that the office block on the west side of the open roadway be designed as a continuous enclosed space to be divided by moveable partitions as required.

Charing Cross Embankment – Proposed Coach Station Consideration was given to the practicability of providing accommodation for a coach station with a capacity of not less than six coaches, over or adjoining Underground Station. The Vice- Chairman gave Mr Cooper instructions to review and report upon all alternatives sites for such a station, including the arch under the Southern Railway.

20 New Books David Thrower I am probably behind the times with this item, but there are several new books out recently, or fairly recently, of interest. First and foremost, London Transport Country Buses, Part 1, South, by our old friend Laurie Akehurst. This is published by Adam Gordon Books, the well-known specialist publisher of tram histories. It's 160 pages, mostly two b/w pictures per page, with very informative captions, and board covers. Not cheap, at £40, but excellent quality, and I suppose the going rate nowadays for large- format quality books. One to lose yourself in during long lockdown evenings. I look forward to (presumably) Part 2, North. [Reviewed by Hugh Taylor in the previous Newsletter – Ed.]

The other two are London's Sixties Buses (published 2019) and London's Country Buses (published 2020), both in full colour by Capital Transport at what I think is a really bargain price of £14-95. The Sixties album is all-Central Area, the Country album of course all-Country though the odd red bus makes an appearance, and the authors are Mick Webber and Kevin McCormack respectively. There are other books in the series, see the Capital website for details.

Postal service from both publishers (I bought direct) was very prompt indeed, with books arriving in perfect condition. I mention the books because, after a year and more without rallies or other gatherings, it is easy to lose track of what has come out. One usually automatically sees these things on stalls at Brooklands and also (in my case) at the transport fairs at the Manchester Museum of Transport, but of course all these events are still absent from the calendar for the moment, and are much-missed. And, in a world of zoom, facetime and various other e-tech, you still can't beat a good book!

More New Books Cyril Theobald Over the last few weeks I have bought two new books, both of which I think are excellent and both all about London buses, so I thought other members might also enjoy them.

One is “London Buses, Coaches and Recollections into the 1970s” from the Nostalgia Collection at £8.00. The other is “Trams, Buses and Trolleybuses Past and Present No 1 – London” at £17.99; both are by Michael H.C. Baker.

These are the best two books I have bought in a very long time – nostalgia at its best with brilliant photos. I got them from: Mortons Media Group Ltd., Media Centre, Morton Way, Horncastle, Lincs LN9 6JR, telephone 01507 529529 www.classicmagazines.co.uk who provided very quick service.

Moquette David Cooper I am having some more moquette produced – RT, and the dark green version of the Green Line moquette. I also have in stock the correct pattern for the 10T10. Details from [email protected]

RT 21 Green Line

LBM – Archive Photographs Brian A L Jones Thanks to an earlier donation from Richard Newman of the Isle of Wight Bus and Coach Museum, we can reveal some interesting photographs from the LBM Archive.

Metropolitan-Cammell were an early developer of all metal bus bodies and produced a single AEC Regent body which matched the LGOC design for the ST class. This unique body, coded ST3, was first fitted to ST 211 had then been mounted on ST 589 by the time it joined LT's fleet. Before 1939 it had moved to ST 478 (10/33) then ST 539 (10/34) and finally ST 150 (11/35). It was removed from the fleet on 18 June 1948.

The following Metro-Cammell photos show ST 211 when first bodied, having smoother panelling then any other bus in its class. It entered General service on 20th October 1930.

In his book, The London ST, author Ken Blacker noted , on page 25, that “no photograph is known to exist of the Metro Cammell body with open cab as fitted to ST 211” - so these photos may represent a significant discovery!

Ken's remark appears below a reproduction of a Metropolitan-Cammell advertisement with the body (then with cab glass) mounted on ST 379 in General livery alongside DL 1 in Overground livery. He also noted that the body was, on delivery, half a ton heavier than a standard ST at 6 tons exactly, adding that, after delivery, rear bumpers were then fitted, bringing the weight up to 6 tons 12 cwt.

Metro-Cammell produced similar bodies for 25 Dennis Lance buses (DL class) which were purchased in 1931 for the fleet of LGOC's subsidiary company Overground. Those buses and a further 8 DLs, which came from independent operators, were all operated from Potters Bar (PB) garage until all were sold out of service by late 1937.

By the time the DLs were constructed the Metropolitan Police, as licensing authority, had agreed to permit windscreens to be fitted (compare to the earlier ST photographs above).

While the DL photos show bodies that appear to be similar to those on ST211, the Dennis chassis wheelbase was longer leading to the rear side windows and the platform door opening being shorter on the DLs.

The DL photos are recorded, by a stamp on the rear of the originals, as being taken by Spencer Higson & Co, Technical Photographers & Illustrators, I, Shakespeare Street, Nottingham.

22 Re-touching of the above photo, in the photographer's studio, has produced a nearside front wheel which appears to be hovering in mid-air. 23 Next page: A DL lower deck interior view – while generally similar to LGOC standard STs, there are a few minor differences.

Following page: DL upper deck looking forwards and backwards, the full width rear seat is noteworthy.

References

London Bus File 1933-1939 Double Deckers – Ken Glazier – Capital Transport (2001) 24 The London ST - Ken Blacker – Capital Transport (2012)

25 26 London Transport Car Drivers Club. (Information Please) Peter Wall In about 1970 I had to escort my mother to Kingston Hospital, Galsworthy Road, Kingston to visit her sister. She used to live off the Kingston-by-pass, A3, so the journey was by bus, because I did not have a car then. It is fifty years ago so my memory of the exact events is vague, but I think we used either the 72 or 152 bus to what was then Malden Roundabout, and then the 213 to Kingston Hospital. This journey would have been more direct than the 281 bus from Tolworth and we would have avoided a long walk getting there and another bus to the hospital. On the return we waited for a 213 at Coombe Road, near Norbiton Station with the infamous low bridge. We waited hopefully until a grey, Standard Flying 15 stopped and the very helpful driver offered us a lift. In the nearside windscreen was a circular sticker, rather like a licence disc that read something like the heading above. A man got in the front passenger seat and started ranting about there being no buses on Christmas Day. The car driver patiently explained that even bus drivers like to have their Christmas lunch at home. From this I assume our journey must have been on Christmas Day. Was there a LT Car Drivers Club and did its members volunteer to provide lifts? I hope someone will know the answer. Incidentally, Norbiton Station also appears in the first episode of “The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin” BBC TV.

This Month's Mystery Photograph

Kindly supplied by Tony Beard, who says it's not so much a “where is it?” but a “who is it?” I am sure someone knows, which is more than I do.

Romford Garage David Jones The photo was taken in Seymer Road, Romford, with the site of Romford, North Street, garage to the left. The garage was built during 1952-3 and opened in August of 1953. The site was previously allotments. The Guy bus passing along North Street could have been from Hornchurch, Barking or Upton Park garages, depending on the route, although all three had a share of the 175. The shops are still there, although their purpose has long since changed. There's also a funeral director's premises on the right-hand side, plus some offices. 27 Dave has kindly provided the above current photo via Google Maps.

STL on the 47 Jerry Markwell The STL on the front page of the February Newsletter is on the Shoreditch Church stand on the "wrong" side of Austin Street, a one-way road off the junction of Shoreditch High Street. and Old Street. The road at the back of the bus, with the crew on a break, and, I think, an RT passing, is the High Street. At departure time the crew will take the bus right and right again round the park (known locally as Itchy Park due to its high dosser population) surrounding the Church, and pick up at a stop in Calvert Avenue. Then it turns left into the High Street towards Liverpool Street and eventually Farnborough. Before STLs and RTs took it over, the stand was a good place to find Tilling STs on the 47 and 78.

Athol Street David Fisher I noted that David Thrower was seeking the owner of any bus that operated out of Athol Street garage. Although RT2688 was for many years at Upton Park, I'm afraid that was the closest I could get.

I do have a even more tenuous link to the place though as a great-great-grandfather of my wife, one Thomas Denney, was a bus driver by profession and he lived with his family at 5 Athol Street, so I am pretty sure that I can guess where he worked! Thomas was an Omnibus Driver/Coach Hand at the time of the 1881 census and also in the subsequent records having been a horse keeper ten years before. His son, Henry, was a 'car cleaner' at the time of his marriage in 1909 but had also worked as a horse keeper/groom, a carman and a tram car washer. The Denney family have a long history of horse keeping and bus driving and originated in the Witham and Kelvedon areas of Essex.

Photo of Tram 296 on the Kent border Jerry Markwell The location is Knee Hill, Abbey Wood. The high wall on the left, and the roof behind it, are the side of the Harrow Inn. The main entrance to this large old pub , demolished in 2009, was on the corner just out of shot on the left. The 28 entrance via the pub's car park is just past the span wires but obscured by the far end of the tram, which appears to have recently arrived from London. and is about to move down and share the stand with another which is too dark to identify.

That's the straightforward bit. Explaining the surrounding roads, then and now, is less so. The photo was taken facing south towards Welling. McLeod Road, which reaches Bostall Hill via Basildon Road, is on the right, just beyond the second visible set of span/feeder wires, and leads to Woolwich. Mr Bride was just a couple of yards north of a crossroads. Directly behind him (i e going north) was Harrow Manor Way and Abbey Wood Station. To our left was Abbey Road, which led eastwards to Belvedere, and on the right was Abbey Wood Road going west in the direction of Plumstead.

However, the road layout and names have changed a bit since then. At the junction of Knee Hill and McLeod road there is now a fairly hefty roundabout, and the northwest exit from that takes you on to a flyover which crosses over Abbey Road and a railway line, then rejoins Harrow Manor Way just past Abbey Wood station. All this elevated section is now Harrow Manor Way. The bypassed part of Knee Hill still exists, but is called Wilton Road. Fortunately the narrower, greener part of Knee Hill is still intact.

The tram itself is London Transport car 296, one of a batch of 16 E/1 cars built built for West Ham Corporation in 1930 by Brush with Hurst Nelson trucks . Its West Ham stock number was 69. Although the photo is rather dark, it seems that it was taken on a fairly hot day - the top deck opening windows are down as far as they will go. It appears to have been well looked after - all clean , recently painted. 296 was withdrawn in April 1952 , but a few of the ex-West Ham E/1s lasted till the end in July. Not much can be said about the tram on the other track a little way behind, except that it must be on the 36, or the 38 which also terminated here.

From 1935 to 1952 the area was served by both trams and trolleybuses, hence the three-wire arrangement of the overhead, which enabled trolleybuses to overtake trams, and vice versa. As the two types of vehicles came and went, the complex track and overhead wiring layout was varied several times. But to avoid these notes becoming bogged down in detail, I'll restrict them to the period when the photo was taken, which would have been between 1946 and 1952, and to the immediate area of Knee Hill. In the foreground, the track on the right is a stub (siding), and the left one is two-way. About where Mr Bride is standing is a single-track curve leading west into Abbey Wood Road on a single track to Abbey Wood tram depot. The single overhead for this crossed the trolleybus wiring over his head.

The trolleybus wiring for the 698 came in from the east (Belvedere) via Abbey Road. For the last few yards to the crossroads, the overhead had four pairs of wires., with the extra two pairs connecting to a tight turning circle. The remaining two pairs led left round the corner into Knee Hill, and, just behind the more distant tram, they turned right along McLeod Road to Plumstead.

The 36 trams ran from here to Blackfriars Bridge , then along Victoria Embankment, across and back to Abbey Wood, having rejoined their outward route at St. Georges Circus. The 38 was identical except for running round the Embankment loop in the opposite direction. Both were withdrawn in July 1952 and replaced by buses on route 177, but not immediately. Until the conversion of AW and NX to bus garages was sufficiently advanced, their routes were operated by various vehicles including RT2s and STLs from other garages. (Details are a bit too complex to get into here..)

The 698 ran out of BX, from Woolwich to Bexleyheath via Erith, having been converted from tram route 98 in November 1935. Also, trolleys showing route 694 put in occasional appearances in the area although the route had been officially withdrawn towards the end of the war. The number 694 was used occasionally, if it was still on the blinds, to indicate a short or unusual working.

At first, short B2s and some borrowed C1s were used. As time went on, larger vehicles were needed, and a variety of classes, mostly Ds and Hs, appeared. When the Bexley routes went over to bus operation in March 1959 the route was worked by RTs on route 177A, and an extension of route 229 from Erith.

Peter Gomm Jerry Markwell I was very sorry to hear about Peter Gomm, having known him for a long time, in fact from when he used to run the rallies at Quainton Road, and from when RT1 came backfrom the USA and he, James Stirling and the brothers Sapte took it on. I lived in Croxley at that time and he was in Luton, and when he passed the Register over to you we kept in touch, and met at rallies and model railway exhibitions in Somerset until a year or so ago when the lockdown started. He's going to be greatly and fondly missed by many people.

Next page: The final garage journey – Peter Gomm RIP. “Quantock Heritage Alexander-bodied 1934 Leyland Lion LT5A conveyed Peter’s coffin and family from his home in Wiveiscombe to Taunton Crematorium this afternoon. (26 February).

29 The photograph was taken on the B3227 near my home in Cotford St Luke. Having done some ‘Photoshop’ type work, it was easier to leave the modern VW van in rather than scrub it out. Although there was always a hope that their sightseeing RF (13) would be the chosen vehicle one can’t be too fussy.” Photo and caption by Paul Fleet. Peter's first preservation attempt was a half-can Leyland single-deck, so it was appropriate that his last ride ever should be in another, albeit not the same vehicle.

Membership Renewals

April: Nick Agnew, Nigel Collins, Alan Davidson and Jonathan Miller. May: Nigel Lemon, John Marshall, Peter Plummer, Graham Smith, David Thomas, Keith Valla, John Wagstaff and Colin Wickens.

Note: We have had to hold over several items this time because of lack of space; these will appear next time.

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Editorial Matters: Mike Lloyd, 42A Moss Lane, Platt Bridge, Wigan, Lancs. WN2 3TL I am always pleased to receive notes, news, comments and corrections as well as complete articles, etc., for the Newsletter and these should be sent to me at the above address or by e-mail to [email protected] Please do not use any other address for Newsletter contributions.

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