Wednesday Volume 590 14 January 2015 No. 91 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 14 January 2015 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2015 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 849 14 JANUARY 2015 850 tight process. I will publish the draft clauses before House of Commons 25 August—sorry, I mean 25 January, which is, incidentally, before 25 August. With 25 January being a Sunday, we Wednesday 14 January 2015 might even meet the deadline with a few days to spare. Angus Robertson: Until now, the UK Government’s The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock position has been to remove the right of Scottish householders to object to unconventional gas or oil drilling underneath their homes. What will the position PRAYERS be between now and the full devolution of powers over fracking? Will the Department of Energy and Climate [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Change give an undertaking that it will not issue any fresh licences? Mr Carmichael: The position will be as it is at the Oral Answers to Questions moment, which is that if there is any fracking project in Scotland, the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues in the Scottish Government will have the power, using planning or environmental regulations, to block it. They should not SCOTLAND seek to push the blame on to anyone else. The Secretary of State was asked— 11. [906928] Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome what the Secretary of State has Shale Gas said. Recently, I wrote to the Minister for Business, Energy and Tourism in the Scottish Government to ask 1. Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): If he will whether it was their policy to block such developments. make it his policy that responsibility for licensing shale He wrote back to say that he endorsed the principle of gas extraction should be devolved to the Scottish robust regulation, but gave no answer on what their Parliament. [906918] policy was. Will the Secretary of State enlighten us as to whether he has heard anything from the Scottish The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alistair Government on this matter? Carmichael): That is already Government policy. As the hon. Lady will be aware, the Smith commission heads Mr Carmichael: No, I am afraid that I cannot assist of agreement stated that the licensing of onshore oil the hon. Lady in that regard. All I can do is point to the and gas extraction should be devolved to the Scottish fact that the Scottish Government seem to be desperate Parliament. The Government are committed to publishing to speak about the powers that are held by others, draft clauses in that respect by 25 January. rather than about the way in which they will exercise the powers that they already have. Her constituents and Sheila Gilmore: I very much welcome the Secretary of others will doubtless draw their own conclusions. State’s commitment to that part of the Smith agreement, to which my party is also committed, not least because it will put an end to the attempts by some people to Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ suggest that without the devolution of licensing, the Co-op): The Secretary of State will be aware that, Scottish Government are powerless to stop fracking if following the amendments that I moved in the Committee they want to. They already have powers over planning stage of the Infrastructure Bill yesterday, there has been and regulation, but I hope that this change will close movement from the Government, which we should all that argument down, to everybody’s benefit. welcome. Will he help the House by clarifying the fact that having a licence does not enable somebody to Mr Carmichael: The hon. Lady is right to say that the undertake any extraction or exploration activity? It has Scottish Government have planning and environmental been suggested that it does, but that is absolutely not regulation powers that would enable them to block any the case. fracking project they wanted to block. It is sensible, in the circumstances, that they should be given responsibility Mr Carmichael: I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the licensing of such activities as well. That will be for his efforts on this matter and, in particular, for done as part of the Smith process. tabling his amendments. As was made clear to him yesterday in Committee, the Government will return to Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): The Scottish the matter on Report. We will table an amendment that Government and the Scottish National party have been we believe will achieve the same end, which is the pressing for the devolution of all powers over fracking carving out of Scotland from those provisions in the for some time. Why have the UK Government ruled out Infrastructure Bill. He is absolutely right that licensing devolving power over fracking licences until after the is just one element—it provides no overall entitlement. general election? For fracking to go ahead, the Scottish Government have to give consent on planning and environmental Mr Carmichael: That is part of the timetable to grounds. which we are all committed. Until I heard the Deputy First Minister speak at the National museum, I had Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab): Labour recently thought that the hon. Gentleman’s party was committed called for immediate devolution in this area, and we to it as well. We are proceeding with that speedy and welcome the Government’s response, which as the Secretary 851 Oral Answers14 JANUARY 2015 Oral Answers 852 of State has said is part of the ongoing commitment to David Mundell: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, the Smith agreement. Where appropriate, the Government and a key figure that demonstrates our ability to deal should move immediately to devolve the powers agreed with the issue is the record number of women in work in by the Smith commission. Scotland. I would have thought that politicians in all Today, the leaders of Scotland’s three largest cities, parts of the House would welcome that. home to a quarter of Scotland’s population, have joined us in calling for job-creating powers to be devolved too. Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): The Will the Secretary of State bring forward a section 106 Child Poverty Action Group says that more than one in order so that those powers can go to Scotland as soon five children in Scotland are living in poverty, which is as possible and we can start the work to reverse the far higher than in many other European countries, and failure of this Government’s Work programme? that the number is increasing as the days pass. Can the Minister explain why child poverty is continuing to Mr Carmichael: The hon. Lady and I discussed a increase under his Government? section 106 order when we met recently, but I have to tell her that the route that she has identified—a section David Mundell: I do not accept the premise of an 106 order followed by a section 63 order—is not, in our increase. The Scottish Government’s most recent report view, the appropriate one to honour the commitments stated that we should not take a snapshot and should in the Smith programme. That would devolve competence instead look at indications over a longer period. I agree to the Government in Scotland, not the Parliament, with the hon. Member for Glasgow East (Margaret which would need a section 30 order. I just do not see Curran) on one point, however: we have to see closer how we will achieve that end in the time available to us working together by the United Kingdom Government, in this Parliament, but we are determined that where the Scottish Government, local authorities and the third there is a need for joint working between the two sector. That is the best way to achieve a reduction in Governments to achieve a better transfer of power, my child poverty. right hon. Friend the Under-Secretary and I will be engaged in that process. National Insurance Contributions Child Poverty 3. Dame Angela Watkinson (Hornchurch and Upminster) 2. Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): What (Con): What assessment he has made of the potential change there has been in the level of child poverty in effect on businesses in Scotland of the removal of the Scotland since 2010; and if he will make a statement. requirement for employers to pay national insurance [906919] contributions in respect of employees under the age of 21 and apprentices under the age of 25. [906920] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell): Estimates of the number and proportion The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr Alistair of children in relative low income are published in the Carmichael): Abolishing employer national insurance National Statistics households below average income contributions for under-21s is expected to help Scottish series. Those estimates are available for each financial businesses save £45 million and support jobs for year up to 2012-13, and they show that since 2010 the 138,000 young people. Extending that to apprentices number and percentage of children in relative low income under 25 will help about 31,000 apprentices in Scotland, in Scotland have remained at 200,000 and 17% respectively. and it will be more than £1,000 a year cheaper to employ an apprentice earning £16,000. Ann McKechin: It is incredible how complacent the Government are about the fact that child poverty in Dame Angela Watkinson: Is it correct that the Scotland is increasing.