Fourth Session, 40th Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(HANSARD)

Thursday, November 5, 2015 Morning Sitting Volume 31, Number 2

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC

Fourth Session, 40th Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

Premier and President of the Executive Council...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing...... Hon. Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation...... Hon. John Rustad Minister of Advanced Education...... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Minister of Agriculture...... Hon. Norm Letnick Minister of Children and Family Development...... Hon. Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development and Minister Responsible for TransLink...... Hon. Peter Fassbender Minister of Education...... Hon. Mike Bernier Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review...... Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment...... Hon. Minister of Finance...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Steve Thomson Minister of Health...... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacific Strategy and Multiculturalism...... Hon. Teresa Wat Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour...... Hon. Minister of Justice...... Hon. Suzanne Anton Minister of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction and Minister Responsible for the Liquor Distribution Branch...... Hon. Coralee Oakes Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation...... Hon. Michelle Stilwell Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services...... Hon. Amrik Virk Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Todd Stone Minister of State for Emergency Preparedness...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Leader of the Official Opposition...... John Horgan Deputy Speaker...... Richard T. Lee Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole...... Pat Pimm Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk...... Roderick MacArthur, QC Sergeant-at-Arms...... Gary Lenz ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING

Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Fraserview Abbotsford-Mission...... Simon Gibson Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal)...... Penticton Abbotsford South...... Dr. Darryl Plecas Austin, Robin (NDP)...... Skeena Abbotsford West...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Bains, Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Alberni–Pacific Rim...... Scott Fraser Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal)...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Boundary-Similkameen...... Linda Larson Bennett, Hon. Bill (BC Liberal)...... Kootenay East Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Bernier, Hon. Mike (BC Liberal)...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds...... Raj Chouhan Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby-Lougheed...... Jane Jae Kyung Shin Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby North...... Richard T. Lee Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Cloverdale Cariboo-Chilcotin...... Donna Barnett Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP)...... Vancouver–West End Cariboo North...... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chouhan, Raj (NDP)...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack...... John Martin Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal)...... Westside-Kelowna Chilliwack-Hope...... Laurie Throness Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal)...... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Columbia River–Revelstoke...... Norm Macdonald Conroy, Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Comox Valley...... Don McRae Corrigan, Kathy (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Vacant Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Selina Robinson Darcy, Judy (NDP)...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley...... Bill Routley de Jong, Hon. Michael, QC (BC Liberal)...... Abbotsford West Delta North...... Wm. Scott Hamilton Dix, Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Delta South...... Vicki Huntington Donaldson, Doug (NDP)...... Stikine Esquimalt–Royal Roads...... Maurine Karagianis Eby, David (NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Fort Langley–Aldergrove...... Hon. Rich Coleman Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Farnworth, Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Juan de Fuca...... John Horgan Fassbender, Hon. Peter (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Kamloops–North Thompson...... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Fleming, Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kamloops–South Thompson...... Hon. Todd Stone Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)...... Vernon-Monashee Kelowna–Lake Country...... Hon. Norm Letnick Fraser, Scott (NDP)...... Alberni–Pacific Rim Kelowna-Mission...... Hon. Steve Thomson Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal)...... Abbotsford-Mission Kootenay East...... Hon. Bill Bennett Hamilton, Wm. Scott (BC Liberal)...... Delta North Kootenay West...... Katrine Conroy Hammell, Sue (NDP)...... Surrey–Green Timbers Langley...... Hon. Mary Polak Heyman, George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Mission...... Marc Dalton Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal)...... Surrey–White Rock Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Dr. Doug Bing Holman, Gary (NDP)...... Saanich North and the Islands Nanaimo...... Leonard Eugene Krog Horgan, John (NDP)...... Juan de Fuca Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Doug Routley Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Panorama Nechako Lakes...... Hon. John Rustad Huntington, Vicki (Ind.)...... Delta South Nelson-Creston...... Michelle Mungall James, Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill New Westminster...... Judy Darcy Karagianis, Maurine (NDP)...... Esquimalt–Royal Roads North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP)...... Nanaimo North Island...... Claire Trevena Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)...... Shuswap North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Hon. Naomi Yamamoto Lake, Hon. Dr. Terry (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–North Thompson North Vancouver–Seymour...... Jane Thornthwaite Larson, Linda (BC Liberal)...... Boundary-Similkameen Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal)...... Burnaby North Parksville-Qualicum...... Hon. Michelle Stilwell Letnick, Hon. Norm (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River North...... Pat Pimm Macdonald, Norm (NDP)...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Peace River South...... Hon. Mike Bernier McRae, Don (BC Liberal)...... Comox Valley Penticton...... Dan Ashton Martin, John (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack Port Coquitlam...... Mike Farnworth Morris, Mike (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Mackenzie Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Linda Reimer Mungall, Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Nicholas Simons Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal)...... Cariboo North Prince George–Mackenzie...... Mike Morris Pimm, Pat (BC Liberal)...... Peace River North Prince George–Valemount...... Hon. Shirley Bond Plecas, Dr. Darryl (BC Liberal)...... Abbotsford South Richmond Centre...... Hon. Teresa Wat Polak, Hon. Mary (BC Liberal)...... Langley Richmond East...... Hon. Linda Reid Popham, Lana (NDP)...... Saanich South Richmond-Steveston...... Ralston, Bruce (NDP)...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich North and the Islands...... Gary Holman Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal)...... Richmond East Saanich South...... Lana Popham Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal)...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Shuswap...... Greg Kyllo Rice, Jennifer (NDP)...... North Coast Skeena...... Robin Austin Robinson, Selina (NDP)...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Stikine...... Doug Donaldson Routley, Bill (NDP)...... Cowichan Valley Surrey-Cloverdale...... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Routley, Doug (NDP)...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Fleetwood...... Hon. Peter Fassbender Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal)...... Nechako Lakes Surrey–Green Timbers...... Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Surrey-Newton...... Harry Bains Simons, Nicholas (NDP)...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey-Panorama...... Marvin Hunt Simpson, Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Tynehead...... Hon. Amrik Virk Stilwell, Hon. Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Surrey-Whalley...... Bruce Ralston Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Langara Surrey–White Rock...... Gordon Hogg Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–South Thompson Vancouver-Fairview...... George Heyman Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver–False Creek...... Sam Sullivan Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Fraserview...... Hon. Suzanne Anton Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Hastings...... Shane Simpson Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal)...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver-Kensington...... Mable Elmore Thomson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver-Kingsway...... Adrian Dix Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal)...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver-Langara...... Dr. Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack-Hope Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Vacant Trevena, Claire (NDP)...... North Island Vancouver–Point Grey...... David Eby Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Tynehead Vancouver-Quilchena...... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal)...... Richmond Centre Vancouver–West End...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.)...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Vernon-Monashee...... Eric Foster Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Quilchena Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Carole James Yamamoto, Hon. Naomi (BC Liberal)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Victoria–Swan Lake...... Rob Fleming Yap, John (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Capilano...... Ralph Sultan Vacant...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain West Vancouver–Sea to Sky...... Jordan Sturdy Vacant...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Westside-Kelowna...... Hon. Christy Clark

Party Standings: BC Liberal 48; New Democratic 33; Independent 2; Vacant 2

CONTENTS

Thursday, November 5, 2015 Morning Sitting

Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members...... 10083

Tributes...... 10083 Kidsport community award recipient Gordon Hogg Hon. P. Fassbender Mary Forstbauer L. Popham Paul and Terry Nichols Hon. C. Oakes

Introductions by Members...... 10083

Statements (Standing Order 25B)...... 10084 Recreational fishing in northern B.C. J. Rice Forever Young fitness group for seniors in Richmond J. Yap Temporary foreign workers M. Elmore Commemoration of World War I veterans in Hedley L. Larson Arena in Hazelton D. Donaldson Family physicians Moira Stilwell

Oral Questions...... 10086 Liquor Distribution Branch overpayment of commissions to commercial wineries D. Eby Hon. C. Oakes S. Robinson Government action on safe transportation on Highway 16 M. Karagianis Hon. T. Stone J. Rice Appointments by board resourcing office and government record-keeping M. Elmore Hon. A. Wilkinson Refit and sale ofQueen of Chilliwack C. Trevena Hon. T. Stone Licence for rural agency liquor store on Saltspring Island G. Holman Hon. C. Oakes Inclusion of honey in farmers market coupon program L. Popham Hon. N. Letnick

Tabling Documents...... 10091 Office of the Auditor General,An Audit of the Education of Aboriginal Students in the B.C. Public School System, 2015 Office of the Merit Commissioner, merit performance audit, 2014-15 Orders of the Day

Committee of the Whole House...... 10091 Bill 35 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act (No. 2), 2015 (continued) S. Simpson Hon. S. Bond

Reporting of Bills...... 10097 Bill 35 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act (No. 2), 2015

Third Reading of Bills...... 10097 Bill 35 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act (No. 2), 2015 10083

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2015 MARY FORSTBAUER

The House met at 10:03 a.m. L. Popham: I rise today to share the sad news of the passing of Mary Forstbauer. [Madame Speaker in the chair.] Mary was both a successful and incredibly hard- working farmer in Chilliwack and a titan for the organic Routine Business movement in this province. Mary was a driving force be- hind the Forstbauer Family Natural Food Farm. Her pro- Prayers. duce was well known and much enjoyed by thousands of people. She fed many of us with nutritious food grown Introductions by Members with love and respect for the earth and in keeping with biodynamic and organic principles. Hon. P. Fassbender: I have the pleasure to introduce Outside of her farm work, Mary made many import- two guests to the House. ant contributions to the organic farming industry in [1005] British Columbia. She was a founder and past president Dr. Carson Pue is a close personal friend of mine and of the Certified Organic Associations of B.C. and the B.C. a renowned author, speaker and executive mentor. He’s Association of Farmers Markets. She worked tirelessly also joined today by Dr. Paul Pearce. Dr. Pearce is the to protect and strengthen the integrity of the organic co-director for the Centre for Healthy Aging Transitions, farming industry. Because of that, she received the 2015 which many of us are facing in our lives, and he’s doing a Organics Achievement Award. great job. It is part of the Carey Institute on the campus She passed away on October 30, surrounded by her of UBC. I’d ask the members of the House to make both family. She’s survived by her husband, Hans, her 12 chil- of them very welcome. dren and her 36 grandchildren. Her family is creating a memorial fund in her name to advocate for the labelling Tributes of genetically modified organisms. A celebration of life for Mary is planned for November KIDSPORT COMMUNITY AWARD 9 at 3 p.m. at the Chilliwack Alliance Church. RECIPIENT GORDON HOGG Please join me in acknowledging this special person, her hard work and a life well lived. Hon. P. Fassbender: If I may, I’d also like to take a moment to honour a fellow colleague here in the House. PAUL AND TERRY NICHOLS On Tuesday evening, the Surrey–White Rock branch of KidSport held their fourth annual Nite of Champions Hon. C. Oakes: Just over seven months ago, a signifi- event in South Surrey. It was a well-attended event, and cant journey began on the front steps of this House. Paul they raised over $95,000 to support over 500 youth in and Terry Nichols created a Communities for Veterans the coming year. Foundation, the ride across Canada. They rode on horses A special highlight of that evening was the presenta- across Canada to raise awareness for the changing face tion of the Greg Long community champion award. This of our veterans. award is presented annually by KidSport Surrey–White On November 9, they complete their journey in St. Rock to an individual who demonstrates a tireless com- John’s, Newfoundland. They have had the opportunity to mitment to youth sport and who provides leadership in work with over 320 veterans with their horses. They’ve promoting the values of fair play, fun, teamwork and the connected with tens of thousands of civilians and serv- development of athletic life skills for youth. I don’t think ing members of the military along the way. Zoe, their they recognize the art of alliteration, but this individual 19-year-old horse who was a significant part of Paul’s does that with great passion. transition back into the community, has made the jour- This year’s recipient epitomizes the very essence of the ney with him — over 5,000 kilometres. Zoe has been able spirit of the award. He created sport programs for at-risk to participate. youth at the Willingdon youth detention centre as a way It’s just an amazing story. They’re true Canadian heroes, of connecting youth offenders. He also founded the late and I would ask the House to please congratulate them night basketball program called Night Hoops for at-risk on this very significant journey. youth, a program that is widely recognized and emulated. [1010] This year’s recipient of the Greg Long community champion award is none other than the member for Introductions by Members Surrey–White Rock and the Parliamentary Secretary for Youth Sport. I would ask all the members to join me in D. Eby: It’s a pleasure to rise and recognize a constitu- congratulating him on this prestigious award. ent of mine that’s on the premises — Dr. Charles Webb, 10084 British Columbia Debates Thursday, November 5, 2015

the president of Doctors of B.C., who is here for immun- So, Charmaine, you’re very special to me. I look for- ization day at the Legislature. ward to seeing you soon, honey, and I love you. I understand that Dr. Webb had the option, as a young Please join me in wishing her a happy anniversary. man, of choosing whether to go to law school or medical school. Four weeks before going to law school, he decid- Statements ed to go to medical school — a great advantage for the (Standing Order 25B) province of British Columbia, a loss for the Law Society of British Columbia, but I think we’re in net benefit. RECREATIONAL FISHING Dr. Webb does a wonderful job for the province. I want IN NORTHERN B.C. to recognize him and his wonderful family for all their work in our constituency and for the province. J. Rice: Whiz, bloop! That’s the sound of my favour- ite fishing lure, the Buzz Bomb, hitting the surface. The Hon. T. Lake: I want to join my colleague in welcom- Buzz Bomb is an all around four-to-six ounce weighted ing Dr. Charles Webb for immunization day. Earlier to- lure with a treble hook. Its diamond shape comes in vari- day many of us, including our Parliamentary Secretary ous bright colours and can be used for casting, trolling for Seniors and, also, the member for Cariboo-Chilcotin, or jigging. had our flu vaccines. The contents of my tackle box is a tangled mess of Also with us in the precinct to do that this morning monofilament, a leaky bottle of fish scent and a rainbow was Dr. Daniele Behn Smith, who is our aboriginal health of various jig spoons purchased in an impulsive moment. adviser — really appreciate having her on board, on our But my old standby is a chartreuse yellow Buzz Bomb team — and, of course, Dr. Perry Kendall, our provincial with orange ends. I also have a white one, a minty green health officer, and David Pavan, a past president of the one and steel blue one, but my chartreuse one never fails B.C. Pharmacy Association. me, except for this year. I just want to remind all members to ensure that I reluctantly tell you that I was essentially skunked. I their constituents know the importance of getting the did catch one fish, a copper rockfish, on the old char- flu vaccine. treuse, except I’m embarrassed to say that even though I thoroughly bonked the fish on the head to quickly end R. Fleming: Not too long ago, the department of his- any suffering and ensure a tasty meal for supper, it spon- tory at the University of Victoria celebrating its 50th an- taneously sprang to life and a nervous flickering and niversary. I’m delighted today that in the gallery is an hopped out of my boat. individual who, for some of those decades, ruled over, [1015] administered that department, through many, many Other than that fish, that was it, and I am now seeing successes, with a velvet fist, I think, keeping those ab- the bottom of my deep freeze for the first time in a long sent-minded professors on track and winning academic while. Mind you, my fishing days were limited, so justifi- awards. ably, my catch-per-effort ratio was low and by no means My constituent Karen McIvor, who was part of that a reflection on my true fish-catching abilities. faculty, is here today with her grandson, Jade Robichaud, Casting a line gives me an artificial sense of purpose — and I would ask the House to make them feel most wel- a need of catching a fish — when, in fact, breathing salty come here. air, bobbing around in a boat, hanging my head over the gunwales and imagining what lies beneath is as valu- B. Routley: One of the things that we do share in this able as catching a fish. It’s an experience I recommend to Legislature is the sacrifice of time away from the special anyone. I want everyone in this House to know that the people that we love. This Saturday my special love, my fishing is actually indeed lofty in the north. I saw with wife Charmaine, and I will celebrate being married for my own eyes the catches of the summer as I walked the 45 years. I’m sure even the opposition will agree there docks empty-handed. should be a special award to my wife for that. There is a plethora of successful fishing guides and fish- I do want to say, wow, what a wonderful, life-changing ing lodges worthy of your visit, and I assure you that the experience we’ve had. She was only 18 and I was 21 when sound you will hear will be more like the whiz! of you we married. We’ve had the joy of a son and then a daugh- hooking that big one. ter and now five beautiful grandchildren and two golden retrievers. FOREVER YOUNG FITNESS GROUP We do try to pick each other up when we’re down, and FOR SENIORS IN RICHMOND we love to jump for joy together at the special times. After 45 years, we even just enjoy spending time in the same J. Yap: Lucille Ball once said: “The secret to staying room together. I’m sure a lot of you know what that’s like. young is to live honestly, eat slowly and lie about your It’s wonderful. age.” But in Richmond, one group is proving that the Thursday, November 5, 2015 British Columbia Debates 10085

best way to stay forever young is through exercise with immigration system based on permanency and family friends. The Forever Young Club was started seven years reunification. These workers are vulnerable to exploita- ago by Richmond residents and running enthusiasts John tion because of the precariousness of their status, and Young, his wife, Joan, and their friend, Gwen MacFarlan, these practices lower standards for everyone in the labour now an octogenarian who also happens to be a prolific market. marathon runner and record-holder. The distortion of B.C.’s labour market also creates a What began as a trio of runners has now evolved into a secondary tier of TFWs with no labour mobility. These membership of about 150 people. Participants meet every workers remain in the shadows of our society. In addi- Monday and Wednesday for a run-walk session followed tion, temporary foreign workers are exposed to predatory by a visit to a local coffee shop. practices and are paying thousands of dollars in illegal Last month the group sponsored a one-of-a-kind race recruitment fees to work in minimum-wage jobs in B.C. for seniors at Garry Point Park in my riding in Richmond. B.C. needs to put an end to these violations. We need The Forever Young 8K celebrated active seniors in our to ensure there’s a registration regime for employee re- community and set an example that will encourage all of cruiters, ensure proactive enforcement of employment those aged 55-plus to adopt a healthy lifestyle. They’ve labour standards and ensure all workers in B.C. have ac- been a great role model to me as I look for new ways cess to justice and are free from exploitation. to keep my heart healthy after my own medical reality [1020] check earlier this year. Kudos to John and Joan Young, Gwen MacFarlan and their group. They’re making life COMMEMORATION OF for seniors in Richmond a little more fun and a lot more WORLD WAR I VETERANS IN HEDLEY healthful. Mark your calendars, Members, for next year. The L. Larson: On August 22, 1915, 17 men from the com- Forever Young 8K is on Sunday, September 11, 2016, at munity of Hedley went to Penticton to enlist for the First Garry Point Park in Steveston. World War. Exactly 100 years later, on August 22, 2015, the descendants of those 17 gathered at the memorial in TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKERS Hedley to honour them, as well as 50 other men from Hedley who served in the First World War. M. Elmore: There are an estimated 230 million mi- This event happened because Andy English, while grant workers now circulating around the world, and participating in the usual Remembrance Day services B.C., with over 70,000 temporary foreign workers in our in Hedley two years ago, noticed that the names on the communities, is second only to Ontario. Traditionally a cenotaph were so faded and worn, they were almost im- country of permanent immigration, we are now a coun- possible to read. It was his curiosity about those names try and province where migrant workers are brought in that led him to the research that discovered the photo of on a temporary basis. Many of them live and work in precarious conditions 17 men who had all enlisted on the same day. in our province. A number of factors open the door to the With the help of fellow researcher Jennifer Douglas, abuse of their rights. To address them, the Coalition for they began to put the histories of each of those men Migrant Workers Rights Canada, CMWRC, was formed together. They also discovered that the 17 were told they’d last month. The CMWRC is a coalition of migrant work- have to supply their own guns. So they had raised their er community groups, academics, churches, unions and own money from the community, only to discover later advocates from other sectors. It’s a unified voice of mi- that the Canadian government would be supplying them grant workers in Canada, and its aim is to rebuild the with weapons. The money raised, though, was later used immigration system to ensure basic dignity and fairness to build the cenotaph honouring all the First World War for everyone. veterans from Hedley. Among its first actions is to call for the end of the dis- Most of the families that gathered at the cenotaph criminatory practice of tying migrant workers to specific knew very little about their ancestors until Andy and employers. They are the only workers in Canada whose Jennifer contacted them and shared their research with jobs are tied to one specific employer, one specific ad- them. Funds are being raised to refurbish the old ceno- dress. They’re not free to circulate in the labour market, taph, and Andy and Jennifer continue to research all of and their temporary immigration status makes them dis- the Hedley men who participated in the Great War. They posable. Addressing labour demands through a dispos- hope to publish a book on this unique piece of Hedley able work force creates a two-tier society and a secondary history so that all families will have a permanent record labour market, with the effect of driving down wages be- to share with the next generation. cause these workers are compelled, for fear of deporta- A huge thank-you to Andy and Jennifer and the tion, to accept pay and conditions that citizens can refuse. people of Hedley for saving this unique piece of history They also call for the transition towards a single-tier for all of us. 10086 British Columbia Debates Thursday, November 5, 2015

ARENA IN HAZELTON Here in B.C. we have close to 6,000 family doctors, many of whom were trained at the UBC family practice D. Donaldson: If you’ve had the joy of playing hockey residency program. These doctors are the cornerstone of on an outdoor rink in the middle of a northern winter, primary care in B.C. Unlike other physicians who spe- perhaps under the stars, then you know it is an iconic cialize in treating a particular disease or organ, family Canadian experience. Despite the fond memories, it isn’t doctors are uniquely trained to care for the entire body, the most practical way to provide season-long recreation- cradle to grave. Family doctors work hard to develop al opportunities in small-town B.C. — especially when it strong relationships with their patients, which are cru- rains, with our now unpredictable winters. cial to building trust so that patients may feel comfortable But necessity is the mother of invention, and in the bringing any health concern to their physician. Hazeltons, the Ken Trombley Memorial Arena has been [1025] reinvented as an outdoor facility so that kids get a chance These patients also help physicians maintain complete to join clubs and teams and skate locally this winter. The history so they are better able to understand the patient’s 44-year-old, volunteer-built arena was condemned by health and can tailor care plans to an individual’s needs or an engineer last spring, a major blow to the commun- provide counselling on lifestyle changes that can mitigate ity. Fundraising for the new recreation centre has been symptoms and prevent illness before it develops. phenomenal, with $4 million already raised by the com- At a time when our population is aging and preven- munities in the Hazeltons. tion and lifestyle are becoming increasingly significant Faced with potentially losing a season and all the to our well-being, family doctors are helping British healthy-living opportunities skating and gathering at Columbians to take a proactive approach to their health. the rink brings, the Ice Arena Association took the big They provide the human side of medicine. step of using operating-budget funds to remove the roof I ask the House to please join me in thanking them for of the arena in August at a cost of more than $200,000. everything they do to raise the quality of life and quality The contract was awarded locally, the work proceeded of care in British Columbia. on schedule, and the concrete surface, the boards, the ice plant and the existing change rooms were all saved. Oral Questions It was quite a job. People are pulling together fundraising for operat- LIQUOR DISTRIBUTION BRANCH ing money. The Gitksan Government Commission has OVERPAYMENT OF COMMISSIONS kicked in. Then an engaged group of Hazelton Secondary TO COMMERCIAL WINERIES students donated $1,500 from their bottle drives, car washes and barbecues. D. Eby: For years, the Premier and her government have Just this week, locals learned the rink has made it to been providing commercial wineries with a gift, courtesy the finals of the Aviva Community Fund, thanks to an of B.C. taxpayers. According to briefing materials prepared amazing on-line voting campaign organized locally. They for the minister responsible for liquor policy, government will know December 2 in this Canada-wide competition overpaid commissions to large commercial wineries, cost- whether they win $100,000 towards the coming season so ing taxpayers an amount in the “seven-figure range.” that the innovation is there for this year and perhaps next. It took government a week to do the math. We’re now But make no mistake. This is a very short-term solution. told that they estimate the overpayment was $5.3 million. Residents are not taking their eye off the ball of a new fa- A simple question: when will the minister get the cility being in place by 2017. They look forward to hear- money back? ing very soon on a matching financial commitment that it will take, from the provincial and federal governments. Hon. C. Oakes: Thank you to the member opposite for the question, because it provides me the opportunity to FAMILY PHYSICIANS clarify for the House that, in fact, the member is incorrect. This is a long-standing policy that we’ve had, dating back Moira Stilwell: November 9 to 14 is Family Doctor to the 1980s — a 7 percent commission that was based Week in Canada. This is a great opportunity for Canadians, on retail prices from the 1980s until April 1 of this year. governments and health care organizations to recognize the important role family physicians play in improving Madame Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Point the health and well-being of their patients. Grey on a supplemental. Whether it’s at a clinic, a hospital or a university, family doctors provide a continuity of care, partnering with D. Eby: You can delete the briefing note, but you can’t their patients to develop and maintain a complete health delete history. The briefing note…. history, guide all their treatments and cultivate a lifestyle that promotes long-term health and wellness. Interjections. Thursday, November 5, 2015 British Columbia Debates 10087

Madame Speaker: Members. that we review policies, as we do with the liquor review policy, there’s the opportunity to look at the calculation. D. Eby: I understand why the minister would want to We chose, in 2008, as the briefing note noted, that there revise history on this one. Earlier, when she acknowledged was the opportunity for us to look at the calculation. We there was an overpayment, I didn’t hear her say that she decided to ensure that we continue our strong support of was even thinking about writing a letter to the wineries a growing, thriving wine economy and continue with the to get the overpayment back. I didn’t hear that she had an consistent policy that dated back to the 1980s. actual number on how much they overpaid the wineries. This is a very troubling response today, because three S. Robinson: Well, it’s rather disappointing when this of the recipients of this overpayment are the biggest polit- government refuses — refuses — to protect taxpayers ical donors to the B.C. Liberal Party, to the Premier and to and reclaim this money back. They don’t hesitate at all that minister — the Mark Anthony Group, Constellation when there’s an overpayment of a welfare check or of any Brands and Andrew Peller. other entitlement where there’s an error. They claw it back Why is the minister giving preferential treatment to as soon as they can. donors to the B.C. Liberal Party? Here we have a minister explain how she’s protecting tax- payers by not collecting a $5.3 million gift that she gave to Hon. C. Oakes: This is a policy that’s been consistent the province’s largest commercial wineries. It’s rich, because since the 1980s. I’d caution the member opposite. The it’s the second time this minister has had to stand in this members opposite had the same opportunity to change House and explain to taxpayers why more than $5 million their policy. In fact, while the members opposite pretend of their hard-earned money just goes up in smoke. After all, otherwise, ministers responsible for this file used the ex- it was this minister who let the Auditor General for Local act same calculation… Government waste more than $5 million on a pair of audits. My question to the minister is simple. When is the Interjections. minister going to stop making excuses for how she lost millions of taxpayer dollars and start explaining how she’s Madame Speaker: Order. going to recoup those tax dollars?

Hon. C. Oakes: …from Colin Gabelmann, the Hon. C. Oakes: I thank the member opposite for her Attorney General in 1993 to 1995, Ujjal Dosanjh, the question. But again, there wasn’t an overpayment. It was Attorney General from 1995 to 1997, to Ian Waddell, the a consistent policy dating back to the 1980s. There was Minister of Small Business and Tourism, 1998 to 2000. It’s the opportunity to review the calculation. That’s what the a consistent policy dating back to the 1980s. The mem- briefing note talked about: “Do you want to look at what bers opposite used the exact same calculation. that calculation would look like?” We decided to remain We’re proud of the fact that we’re supporting a thriv- with the consistent policy of supporting a 7 percent com- ing, growing B.C. wine economy. mission for shipping and handling that dated back to the 1980s. That includes the 1990s when the members oppos- Madame Speaker: Vancouver–Point Grey on a fur- ite were in power. ther supplemental. Madame Speaker: Coquitlam-Maillardville on a sup- D. Eby: On October 15, the minister and the LDB plemental. issued separate statements to the media regarding the commercial winery overpayment. The LDB said the over- S. Robinson: Last March the minister defended the payment started in when? In 2008. They’re estimated at waste of over $5 million by arguing that the Auditor “$5.3 million.” The LDB statement affirmed the minister’s General for Local Government was saving local taxpay- earlier statement: “It would cost government too much ers money. Now she’s defending a decision to make a gift money to go to court to recover these overpayments.” of over $5 million to the province’s biggest commercial [1030] wineries by saying: “It’s not worth our effort to collect it.” Now $25,000 is how much Constellation Brands gave The minister has said that. to the B.C. Liberals, $31,000 is how much Andrew Peller My question to the minister is: when will she please gave to the B.C. Liberals, $182,000 is how much the Mark stop protecting taxpayers? Because with her track record, Anthony Group gave the B.C. Liberals, and $5.3 million we just can’t afford it anymore. is how much this minister is telling us she wants to give to her political donors. Why is she doing this? Hon. C. Oakes: Again, we had the opportunity in 2008 to look at a calculation of 7 percent that we provide for Hon. C. Oakes: Again, this is a policy consistent with shipping and handling to support our wine sector, a con- the 1980s. There was an opportunity in 2008. Every time sistent policy dating back to the 1980s, a consistent policy 10088 British Columbia Debates Thursday, November 5, 2015

back from the 1990s that the members opposite chose to to be true, when you read these records. Then the mes- use — the exact same calculation to provide support on sage shifted to: “Well, there are no viable solutions being shipping and handling. worked on and identified by the minister.” We know that I am extremely proud of the work that we are doing not to be true as well. to support a thriving, growing wine economy. When we The member opposite may wish to continue to engage support a thriving wine economy…. We had a spectacu- in unnecessary rhetoric related to Highway 16. We’re go- lar day in which both the members of the House talked ing to continue the hard work, working with commun- about agriculture — the importance of agriculture to the ities to identify solutions to make this corridor safer. economy of British Columbia. The wine economy creates more than 10,000 jobs for our agricultural sector, and we Madame Speaker: The member for Esquimalt–Royal think that’s positive. We know that the wine economy Roads on a supplemental. also supports a thriving tourism economy, and again, we support tourism as well. M. Karagianis: Despite the fact that that minister’s office [1035] deleted e-mails around the Highway of Tears and perpe- trated what has now become the “delete, delete, delete” GOVERNMENT ACTION ON SAFE scandal in this province, as we saw time after time this gov- TRANSPORTATION ON HIGHWAY 16 ernment deleting important information…. I don’t think he should stand up and be quite so smug about this story. M. Karagianis: It’s very interesting. On the one hand, We know for a fact, because the government just re- we have the government overpaying B.C. commercial leased documents here several days ago, on Monday wineries, and they can’t be bothered to get that money morning, publicly…. We can see that the transportation back — over $5 million. On the other hand, we have a discussions along the connection between these com- government that refuses to make aboriginal women and munities have taken place — a revelation three days ago. I girls safer along the Highway of Tears by providing a bus would hardly call that something the government should service there. There couldn’t be a sharper contrast. be bragging about. To the Minister of Transportation: if your government Listen to this. Far from being impractical, as this min- can afford to give money away to commercial wineries, ister has continued to tell us, the government’s own esti- why can’t you afford to put a bus system in place on the mates show that it would cost approximately $1 million a Highway of Tears? year to operate a bus system along the highway. Compare that to — what? — $5 million given away to commercial Hon. T. Stone: As the member knows well, I have said wineries that is not being brought back for taxpayers. many times that the tragedies that have taken place along My question is to the minister. If he wants to be so Highway 16 weigh very heavily on the hearts of all mem- smug about this…. When are you going to put a bus bers in this House. That is why, as a government, we have endeavoured for years now to work with First Nations along the transportation corridor on the Highway of and communities throughout the corridor to identify Tears? Take the money back from commercial wineries, strategies and initiatives that will contribute to increase and put it where it should go — to protecting women and safety through that corridor. young girls along that route. I have to say that the member opposite needs to be challenged here on the consistent misrepresentation of Hon. T. Stone: As I’ve said, the member opposite can the facts with respect to Highway 16. She and her col- continue to engage in unhelpful, inaccurate, frankly out- leagues have…. First, they said that there were no re- rageous claims with respect to the hard work that has cords relating to Highway 16. We know that not to be been taking place between ministry and government of- true. Almost 600 pages of records have been released in ficials and First Nations and communities along the cor- the last three years. ridor. But we’re going to continue to do the hard work. Then her message shifted to: “There have been no meet- We’ve implemented a number of strategies to this point ings between the ministry and folks along the corridor.” We to make the corridor safer. I have mentioned those spe- know that not to be true either, as you can see in the records. cifics on many occasions. We’re going to continue that work. There is a symposium that will be held in Smithers Interjections. in a matter of days where representatives from all 23 First Nations will be, along with members of local govern- Madame Speaker: Members. Members, the Chair will ments and government. hear the answer. [1040] There is a commitment amongst everyone, including Hon. T. Stone: Then her message shifted to: “There government, to continue to roll up our sleeves and identify have been no meaningful discussions.” We know that not further strategies that will make the corridor even safer. Thursday, November 5, 2015 British Columbia Debates 10089

J. Rice: After three years, we have a symposium. Let’s Health Authority. There will be two representatives of remember, this was an urgent recommendation made each of the 23 First Nations there. There will be local gov- by the Missing Women Commission — a recommen- ernment leaders and other stakeholders from throughout dation that intended to prevent the abduction and mur- the corridor. They will be focused on specific, tangible, der of aboriginal women and girls. After speaking to practical solutions, leveraging best practices which are be- bereaved family members and listening to community ing employed in various communities along the corridor. leaders, the commissioner urged the government to act Instead of calling into question the worthiness of this immediately to improve public transportation on the exercise, the member should support it and should wish all Highway of Tears. of the participants well as we continue to work together to The B.C. Liberals could afford to give commercial win- identify further solutions that will make the corridor safer. eries $5 million, no strings attached. Why do they plead poverty when it comes to saving the lives of aboriginal APPOINTMENTS BY BOARD RESOURCING women and girls? OFFICE AND GOVERNMENT RECORD-KEEPING

Hon. T. Stone: Folks throughout the corridor, whether M. Elmore: While the Information and Privacy they’re First Nations or community leaders or local gov- Commissioner exposed how three ministerial offices ernment leaders, have acknowledged that there is more avoided producing records, it appears that almost every work to do. They have made that very clear. We have ministerial office has been doing the same thing. We were made that very clear. That is why we are continuing to curious about communications between the Minister of do the hard work. Advanced Education and his deputy minister responsible But there’s also an acknowledgment amongst folks for the board resourcing office over appointments to vari- along Highway 16 that there has been some progress ous high-profile boards and commissions. We wanted to to date. There is a B.C. Transit service — a $1.5 mil- know who he considered for which posts and what quali- lion investment per year — that connects a number of fications he sought. communities along Highway 16 between, for example, [1045] Smithers and Telkwa, the Hazeltons, both Smithers and But when we FOI’d e-mails and correspondence ex- Kispiox, Terrace and Kitimat, as well as Prince Rupert changed between the minister and his deputy over a and Port Edward. There’s the Northern Health bus, a $2 nine-month period, guess what we got back. No records. million investment per year, which operates and provides Big surprise. Can the minister explain exactly how he a vital service along Highway 16. communicates his directions to the deputy minister re- We’ve seen a significant expansion of cellular service. sponsible for the board resourcing office? We’ve invested in driver education and training with First Nations. We are doing the work to make this corridor Hon. A. Wilkinson: I’m sure the members opposite safer, and that work will continue in the months ahead. will be most relieved and satisfied and pleased to hear that board resourcing is done on its merits, without pol- Madame Speaker: The member for North Coast on itical interference. One can only wonder at the fire and a supplemental. brimstone that would arise from the opposite ranks if, God forbid, I had communicated with the deputy min- J. Rice: After three years we have a symposium, and ister responsible. Then I would be accused of politic- that’s considered hard work? In 2006, community lead- al interference. Instead, we have high-quality, capable ers, First Nations and the families of those murdered boards that are building the economy of this province. along the Highway of Tears called for enhanced public transportation along Highway 16. This call was echoed Madame Speaker: The member for Vancouver- by the murdered and missing women inquiry. After near- Kensington on a supplemental. ly a decade of waiting for real action, the only thing the Minister of Transportation is offering is more meetings. M. Elmore: Well, who do we see appointed to these We know community leaders want public transporta- positions? None other than former B.C. Liberal MLAs tion. We know it’s affordable, and we know it’s practical. and candidates — including , , We know it will save lives. So why isn’t it being done? Sheila Orr, Donny van Dyk and Herb Pond — to high- profile jobs. It certainly refutes the claim by the minister. Hon. T. Stone: The member opposite may choose Yet another example of a government determined to to talk down to this concept of a symposium. The First keep everything secret. We FOI’d the minister’s calen- Nations community leaders, those who will be partici- dar over the same period. Guess what. He met with the pating, have said to us that they actually welcome the op- board resourcing office for exactly an hour and a half over portunity. This is an opportunity that’s being provided in nine months. So they didn’t share a lot of information in partnership between the ministry and the First Nations person. Over the same nine months, the office recruited, 10090 British Columbia Debates Thursday, November 5, 2015 vetted and appointed more than 200 people to a series of [1050] high-profile jobs. Let us also remind the member opposite that the deci- My question to the minister is: if he wasn’t providing sions that were made related to the Queen of Chilliwack direction to the board resourcing office, who was? and route 40 are critical. They were critically important to assist in getting B.C. Ferries to a place of sustainabil- Hon. A. Wilkinson: Well, this is a dark day in British ity and affordability today. We see volume is up almost Columbia when the former government, which had a 5 percent year to date. We see fares tied to inflation four ministry for cooperatives and volunteers, when these years ahead of schedule, and government investment members take… continues to be at record levels.

Interjections. Madame Speaker: The member for North Island on a supplemental. Madame Speaker: Members. C. Trevena: If the minister is so confident that this has Hon. A. Wilkinson: …this opportunity…. They come helped B.C. Ferries, he should have no hesitation in re- into this public space where we’re attempting to do our assuring the public that they’ve got their money’s worth best to govern the province, and they rubbish volun- and that $28 million has come back to the public purse. teers. They dump on people who give their time to make The new owners of theQueen of Chilliwack also said in this a better place. Let’s go through a few examples of September that the sale had been two years in the mak- the people who volunteer to try and make this a better ing. But the announcement that the Chilliwack would be place: Gwen O’Mahony, Laurie Page, Dan Miller. Perhaps taken off the Discovery coast circle route was not made they’ve forgotten that being a volunteer and having the until November 2013, after negotiations with the buyers best interests of the province in hand is our goal. were clearly already underway. There was no meaningful consultation with tourism providers along the route, no REFIT AND SALE OF consultation with local governments, with communities. QUEEN OF CHILLIWACK And worse, this government had already had the boat for sale before they told British Columbians that they were C. Trevena: In 2013, the Queen of Chilliwack was eliminating the route. pulled off the Discovery circle route in favour of the MV To the Minister of Transportation, can he at least, sure- Nimpkish. This September 2015 it was sold for an undis- ly, reassure the B.C. public that the $28 million invested closed price. But the Queen of Chilliwack had recently in this vessel’s refit was recouped? been refitted at the cost of $15 million, if you listen to B.C. Ferries, or $28 million, if you listen to the excited Hon. T. Stone: Well, we heard some lecturing earli- new owners in Fiji, who are thrilled to have a refitted er in question period today about protecting taxpayers. state-of-the-art ferry. The tough decisions that B.C. Ferries has made and that I’d like to ask the Minister of Transportation how much the government has made to get B.C. Ferries to a place the Queen of Chilliwack was sold for. of sustainability and affordability is in part about pro- tecting taxpayers. Hon. T. Stone: Let me say this. My understanding I am also not…. is that B.C. Ferries is now in the process of procur- ing two other vessels. They are going to be selling the Interjections. Queen of Nanaimo and the Queen of Burnaby. So as not to compromise that procurement process, the de- Madame Speaker: Please continue. tails related to the Queen of Chilliwack will not be re- leased at this time. Hon. T. Stone: I am certainly not going to take any However, I have asked for and received assurances advice and be lectured to on ferry procurement from from B.C. Ferries… members opposite. When they were in government, all they were able to show for investment at B.C. Ferries was Interjections. a fast ferry program that they spent half a billion dollars building for ferries that were never used. Madame Speaker: Members. LICENCE FOR RURAL AGENCY Hon. T. Stone: …that once the procurement is con- LIQUOR STORE ON SALTSPRING ISLAND cluded with respect to the replacement of these addi- tional two vessels, all of the details pertaining to the G. Holman: A small general store in Fulford Harbour procurement will be made available. on Saltspring has been trying for months to acquire a Thursday, November 5, 2015 British Columbia Debates 10091

rural liquor licence. The licence for the nearby neigh- Orders of the Day bourhood pub has been sold off. In fact, the neighbour- hood pub has been torn down. There would appear to be Hon. M. de Jong: Continued committee stage debate no policy impediment to issuing a new rural store licence. on Bill 35. The store and my office have been attempting to get [1100] some action on this request or application for over a year, with no success. Will the minister instruct her staff to im- Committee of the Whole House mediately resolve this situation? BILL 35 — WORKERS COMPENSATION Hon. C. Oakes: Thank you to the member opposite AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2015 for the question. We have responded to your request (continued) with a letter. We continue to work closely when we look at our rural agency stores. We have policies that are put The House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on in place to protect the interests of public safety and inter- Bill 35; R. Lee in the chair. ests like that. We would be happy to sit down and have a conversation with you, and we look forward to working The committee met at 11:01 a.m. closely with you. On section 7 (continued). INCLUSION OF HONEY IN FARMERS MARKET COUPON PROGRAM Amendment negatived. S. Simpson: I understand that we’ve had a differ- L. Popham: The Minister of Agriculture claims to ence on this amendment, and the amendment has failed. support agriculture. The Minister of Agriculture claims However, I do want to just take a moment to be very clear he knows the importance of the B.C. honey producers about the conversation, the exchange, with the minister in this province. Can the minister tell me why the B.C. that was had around the amendment as it relates to sec- farmers market coupon program specifically excludes tion 174. honey? What I heard the minister clearly lay out was her com- [1055] mitment that the changes that have been put forward in Bill 35 are intended in no way to reduce the participa- Hon. N. Letnick: Well, thank you very much for the tion of committees or workers. That is not the intention. question. It must be Thursday at two minutes to the end In fact, she’s looking for this section to enhance the role of QP. We finally get an agricultural question this week. of workers and committees in the investigatory process. Thank you very much for that. I heard the minister say her concern with the amend- And what a great week it’s been. We had a great recep- ment was that it may have been too broad but that she tion by farmers and ranchers and producers on Ag Day is still very committed to, in fact, enhancing the role of this week, right here in the Legislature and across B.C. joint occupational health and safety committees and their They were here because we’re celebrating a milestone in members in this process. B.C. agriculture — $12.3 billion in agrifood sales right I heard the minister, I believe, talking about the im- here in British Columbia and almost $3 billion in exports portance that she puts on this, the emphasis she puts on throughout the world. Not only that, we continue to have this, and that she will be writing to the board in relation a strong economy in British Columbia thanks to the poli- to this. She will be providing direction to the board to en- cies of this side of the government. I look forward to con- gage the regulatory process, including a public hearing, tinuing to grow agriculture and aquaculture throughout under the conditions of the act, and she will be looking British Columbia for years to come. for that process to, in fact, be driven by the intent to im- prove the situation and participation at the committee [End of question period.] level for workers in the investigatory process. To the minister. Can the minister confirm that my in- Tabling Documents terpretation of what her intention is, is correct, or correct me if it’s not, and will she commit that the letter that she Madame Speaker: Hon. Members, I have the honour will be writing to the board in regard to this matter will to present a report of the Auditor General, An Audit of the be made public at the time she provides it to the board? Education of Aboriginal Students in the B.C. Public School System; and from the Office of the Merit Commissioner, Hon. S. Bond: I appreciate the member opposite’s Merit Performance Audit 2014-15: Upholding Fair Hiring summary of our discussion yesterday, and I think it’s in the B.C. Public Service. accurate. 10092 British Columbia Debates Thursday, November 5, 2015

I do, though, want to reiterate why these changes are On the amendment. being made and that the attempt to react to, in the legis- lation specifically, is directly to the recommendations of S. Simpson: There were two critical factors in the dis- the coroner’s jury. The language that the coroner’s jury cussion of this bill with the minister. One was the sec- brought down, of course, is what has driven our work here. tion that we’ve just addressed and dealt with. The second The issue for the coroner’s jury was that there must be full was this issue. and meaningful participation. That’s exactly what we hope We know, when we get to section 176 here, which is the and anticipate will happen as a result of the legislation. complete report that will be provided in any investigation, [1105] that those reports are made available to the committee as I think it is important to note that while there are two they’re made available to the board. That process is cer- specific subsections, those relate directly to the concerns tainly fairly complete. expressed by the jury. There is a section (c) which notes What we didn’t have in this legislation, in 135, was any “other activities, as prescribed by the Board.” direction that the preliminary report be made available. This is absolutely not about narrowing the scope. I The requirements under the act are that an employer, when know the member was very concerned about that yes- there is a significant incident or an accident, must com- terday. I do want to make it clear on the record that that plete a preliminary report within 48 hours. That report can is not at all the intention. It is to meet the requirements be provided to the board upon their request, but where that were recommended by the coroner’s jury to bring that report went other than that was somewhat unclear. full and meaningful participation. This will require that the joint occupational health and I will be sending a letter. I do have the purview in some safety committee be provided that report in a fairly ex- areas to provide direction to the board — obviously not peditious way. That creates, I believe, an opportunity for in terms of decision-making around claims, things like that committee and for other workers in the workplace to that. It’s an independent organization. I will be providing be able to pretty quickly ascertain whether, in their view, direction, as the member opposite suggests, to the board the preliminary report — which is preliminary in nature that immediately upon the coming into force of section 7, and certainly doesn’t dig as deeply as the complete report they begin a consultation process that will lead to a public will — fairly reflects what the workers and the people in hearing. The end result of that would be an amendment the industry and the shop believe has occurred — and at to the occupational health and safety regulation. least to determine if the parameters of the report fairly I will be very clear that consultation with the board reflect what has occurred. must include employer and worker communities on what [1110] other activities should be prescribed by the board and If the report has indications that the committee be- that the overall framework for that discussion should be lieves need further work, the committee has the ability, the words that the coroner’s jury included, which are “full obviously, to respond to the employer in that way or to and meaningful participation.” respond to the board as well. So the committee has a lot I’ve made that commitment to the member. I will be of tools in place. happy to share the letter. I think that while we had a The important thing. It goes back and reflects on the great deal of agreement, as the member points out, it was discussion we’ve had in previous sections about the real the use of a particular phrase that was a concern to me. intent of much of Bill 35, which is: enhancing the role of However, I think we are working toward the same end joint occupational health and safety committees; giving with the concerns that the member has expressed and my them more tools; giving them more ability to be success- view of where this needs to go. ful at their job as kind of the front-line entity, organiza- tion, to help make workplaces as safe as they can make Section 7 approved. them. And that’s part of their role. When you have incidences…. In industrial shops and S. Simpson: I want to propose a further amendment other shops, there will be incidents that will require these to Bill 35, the Workers Compensation Amendment Act preliminary reports. I think what we do here, with this (No. 2), 2015, to amend as follows: amendment, is ensure that the people who have a respon- [Section 7.1, by adding the following section: sibility under the act, as members of the committee, have 7.1 Section 175 (2) is amended by striking out “and” at the end of paragraph (b), by adding “, and” at the end of paragraph (c) as much information as they can possibly have to under- and by adding the following paragraph: stand what occurred and to be able to express a view on (d) as soon as practicable after the report is completed, either that, if they have a view, or to be able to, maybe, provide (i) provided to the joint committee or worker health and some assistance or some advice that will help with the safety representative, as applicable, or (ii) if there is no joint committee or worker health and safety framing of the overall report — the larger report, which representative, posted at the workplace.] will come in the next 30 days following that. I believe that’s been made available to the table and to I do believe that if we want to enhance the role, then it the minister. becomes very important that in doing that, we have the Thursday, November 5, 2015 British Columbia Debates 10093

ability to ensure that this committee has as many tools remember that it is a preliminary report, so one of the and resources as possible. One of those is the preliminary things we don’t want to do is have people rushing off on report. This amendment will ensure that report is there. an assumption. But I think that it is wise to permit the The other thing. We know that there are certainly sharing of that information as soon as possible. workplaces of under 20 persons where there’s not go- The practice will continue to be the same in that the re- ing to necessarily be a committee and other workplaces ports will be available by request for WorkSafe, but in this where, if this occurs and if the employer has an obligation case, the amendment that the member opposite has rec- to produce a preliminary report after an incident, that re- ommended would mean that there would be a require- port will get posted so that any worker in that workplace ment to disclose the preliminary report to make sure that has the opportunity to peruse that report and to deter- workers are informed about important safety issues and mine for themselves whether they believe it fairly reflects concerns that may be identified even as early as through what might have occurred in any situation. the preliminary report. When we go back and we look at the Babines and the I appreciate the comments of the member opposite, Lakelands, I think one of the things we know, and I know and I support the amendment that he has tabled. it’s the work the minister has done with Bill 9 and with this bill…. We know that critical aspects of the proced- Amendment approved. ure have not met the test, and one of them has been the role of these committees. This, I think, helps the com- Section 7.1 approved. mittee to do its work. I think it provides an additional obligation to the em- On section 8. ployer that’s a pretty achievable one but opens up other means of communications to make sure that we can S. Simpson: In this section, essentially, the language move ahead and, hopefully, catch some challenges or dif- here is very much like the language of the amendment ficult situations in the workplace very early and ensure that we just passed, only in this case, it references the final that everybody is being as transparent and accountable report and the writing of that report. as they need to be when they’re reporting out circum- With this final report, could the minister explain — stances or situations that would have led to an incident and this is more for the record than anything else — report and a preliminary report here. when the final report is done, what is the process? How I am hopeful. I’ve had the discussion with the minis- does it go? It goes to the board. It goes to the committee. ter, and I know the minister is very sympathetic to this Where does it go, and how does it get addressed? issue. I’m very hopeful that we’ll have some success with We know that this is not a report…. Whereas the pre- this amendment. liminary report is one where the board has discretion as to whether it wants to receive it or not. I assume that The Chair: Just to clarify in the last section. Section 7 probably would be determined, to some degree, by the was carried by the committee. significance of the incident, the accident, whatever, and particularly whether there were any injuries related to Hon. S. Bond: I appreciate the member’s comments. that. But when the final report is done, could the minis- One of the things that I think is important about issues ter maybe explain how that report then makes it through like this is that we find ways to work together to improve the different processes: who gets it, what happens to it worker safety in British Columbia. I have believed from and what happens next, after that report is completed? the beginning of, certainly, my tenure in this ministry [1120] that this is one of those issues that should not be partisan in nature. People lost their lives. It was a horrible tragedy, Hon. S. Bond: We did deal with the issue of the pre- and communities and families’ lives are altered forever. liminary report. It probably is helpful to just articulate From the beginning of the member’s comments when how we, first of all, get to a final report and then what he spoke at second reading, I considered his request on happens with it. An employer, after an incident, must, the two issues. Obviously, while we couldn’t agree to the obviously, immediately complete a preliminary investiga- language for the first amendment that he made, I think tion. They do that under section 175, which we just dis- there is a process that will get to the outcome that he is cussed. Then, as soon as possible, they have to do a full looking for. investigation. As you can imagine, depending upon the [1115] complexity, it can take a bit longer. First the preliminary, I have no opposition to this amendment. I think that and then they move on to a full investigation. in thinking through the wisdom of making sure that the That investigation must look at determining what “the sooner information is available to workers and employ- cause or causes of the incident investigated under section ers, the better off we are. It is a chance for us, potentially, 175” are, and immediately “identify any unsafe condi- to take corrective action, if that’s possible. We have to tions, acts or procedures” that might have contributed to 10094 British Columbia Debates Thursday, November 5, 2015

the accident. There is also a requirement to take action S. Simpson: Are there incidents here where…? It may as they are developing the report. If “unsafe conditions, be like a Babine or a Lakeland, and we hope we don’t have acts or procedures are identified under paragraph (b) of to experience something that significant again and that this subsection,” they must “determine the corrective ac- catastrophic again. tion necessary to prevent the recurrence of similar inci- But in a major incident, are there times when it be- dents.” So there is a series of expectations in order to get comes very clear very quickly that we’re dealing with to the final report. something that is large, where people have potentially That report must then be prepared — there are poli- been hurt, and that this process just goes by the wayside cies that are used and provided — and “submitted to the and the board just steps in and takes over the whole in- Board within 30 days of the occurrence of the incident.” vestigatory process themselves, without having an em- They do the preliminary report quickly. They take on ployer’s response, and just says: “We’re in. We’re bringing a full investigation, including identifying any correct- our investigators in. We are taking control of this inves- ive action, and then they need to get it to the board of tigation from the outset”? WorkSafe within 30 days. Now, I should say that if there are very complicated circumstances — you know, in the Hon. S. Bond: The member is correct. WorkSafe does horrific circumstances that we saw in both Babine and quite routinely, and certainly, in the case of something Lakeland — the board does have the ability to extend the as…. I can’t agree more passionately with the member time period, depending upon complexity. opposite. We can only pray that things like this do not Once the full investigation has been completed, the happen again. Part of the reason we’re here today is to employer must — the language in the act is “without try to ensure that. But there’s no perfect way to ensure undue delay” — “undertake any corrective action de- that, sadly. termined to be necessary.” They provide the report, also, But yes, WorkSafe will come in, and it is not an either- to WorkSafe. When it gets to WorkSafe, the job there is or circumstance. WorkSafe will come in and, for example, for the senior staff and the team at WorkSafe to review secure the scene and begin their own investigation quite every report. quickly. And they will also, in essence, secure that scene I should say that after I introduced Bill 9, previous to for…. It could be for a significant period of time. this one, WorkSafe did hire additional staff to actually en- It does not relieve the employer of the responsibility sure that when reports come in, they are read thoroughly. of doing an investigation. It’s not either-or. They both After that is done, the action plan is put into place. They occur. But the timing may be impacted depending upon would go through and look at all of the steps that they WorkSafe’s need to lock down a site or deal with some- think are necessary. Those would then be assigned to pre- thing on a more urgent basis. vention officers. They may include things like safety -bul Yes, they do step in and begin their investigations im- letins, if there are implications for the entire sector, and mediately, but it does not alleviate the responsibility of a variety of things. Once received, the report is read, an the employer to do an investigation. action plan is created, and then there is ongoing monitor- ing to ensure that the work that’s necessary is completed. S. Simpson: There’s a bit of legality to this that I don’t entirely understand. We’ll see if maybe we can under- S. Simpson: I understand where there could be situa- stand it. tions where this would occur. The minister says that if it We know that when we dealt with Bill 9, one of the sig- was a complex situation, the board could put an exten- nificant features of Bill 9 was the firewall, the separation sion in place, allow the company an extension. Are there of the two investigatory processes. If, at some point, it limits on those extensions? Or is the timeline for exten- triggers consideration that there may be a criminal neg- sions entirely at the discretion of the board? ligence aspect to this or something else that may require this, at some point, to end up with Crown counsel and Hon. S. Bond: There is some discretion. There is not potential charges, then, all of a sudden, the rules change a timeline that says: “This is the maximum time frame.” around the investigation and how that proceeds. We certainly saw that with the complexity of investiga- We know, and we’ve talked about this before, that the tions like the ones that we’re responding to today. But I employer’s investigation is — I believe this is true — not think the board is very clear. When you look at the lan- seen to create any risk for that potential criminal investi- guage in section 176, it is consistently, “without undue gation, should it happen. It’s a piece of work done by the delay,” undertake corrective action. I think there is a employer. For any evidence there, the investigation may sense that any extension is an exception rather than the or may not choose to use it, if it becomes a criminal mat- rule. The 30-day rule applies. There would have to be ter. And I understand that. quite extraordinary circumstances for WorkSafe to con- Does it change at all if WorkSafe comes in and essen- sider an extension. tially takes control of the investigation? We’re now say- [1125] ing that doesn’t preclude the employer from proceeding, Thursday, November 5, 2015 British Columbia Debates 10095

but they now are proceeding pretty much directly under I do believe there are very different processes in place WorkSafe, who have locked down the site, secured the at WorkSafe. And the member is right to ask these ques- site and made any kind of decisions they need to make tions. Jurisdiction in an investigation of this magnitude is about how that site does or doesn’t change. critical. It had a role to play in the outcomes in the after- Does that change the role of that report and potentially math of these tragedies. And I think, now, by clarifying make it a situation that might compromise….? It’s no long- this, making sure preliminary reports are going to worker er just the employer being independent. Once WorkSafe reps and employers and clarifying the timelines, we will steps in and says, “This is serious. We’ve got somebody on find a much more straightforward and, hopefully, clearly the site now. We’re going to tell you what you can and can’t understood process. do. It’s not up to you anymore…,” does that change the role [1135] of that report and create a potential implication that the employer’s process could compromise that? S. Simpson: I thank the minister for that. That’s helpful. [1130] Just one last question on this matter, so I understand it. I know that the more conventional WorkSafe approach of Hon. S. Bond: We know that what unfolded in both coming in and doing an investigation kind of takes it to the case of Babine and Lakeland…. Jurisdiction was an one level. The minister talked about hierarchy. We know issue, in terms of the site. We know that we had lots of that if there’s a determination fairly quickly that there may what I think was constructive discussion about workers be something significantly wrong here — there may be reps and their role in that. One of the direct recommen- negligence; there may be other conduct that requires a dif- dations about that investigation process was that work- ferent kind of investigation — then it’s kicked up the ladder er reps did not have access to the site. We are obviously to this other investigatory group within WorkSafe. If they working to fix that in this legislation. get it and take charge, then I’m sure they take a much…. There is a hierarchy, and I’m trying to think of a better I don’t want to suggest that the first group doesn’t do way to say it other than that. There is obviously an order their job. But they take a much more strident or strin- to which these things happen. First and foremost, in a gent view of the investigation, because they know they very serious incident, the RCMP actually have control have to meet standards of criminal justice and not com- of the site. That means that even WorkSafe is secondary promise evidence, which was the problem we saw in the to that. The RCMP, in essence, take the site and, at some Lakeland-Babine situation. point, turn it over to WorkSafe. They are going to investigate under very strict param- It really, in a very, very significant circumstance, eters so that they don’t compromise the potential for a works its way down so that it would be the RCMP. They Crown prosecutor maybe to receive a file and be able to would then, if WorkSafe is involved, turn the site over act on it if they see fit and not say: “Evidence was com- to WorkSafe. Ultimately, WorkSafe then has jurisdic- promised and we can’t move forward.” tion, eventually turning it over to the employer. So it If it goes there, does that change at all what happens? does mean that in circumstances…. While the report, That would happen pretty quickly, I expect. The first- in the investigation, is still required by the employer, it can vestigators come in. They’re going to determine pretty be quite a distant time from when the actual incident quickly if there’s any inkling that there’s something sig- happened. nificant here, or that we think there may be, and move it Two things I do want to comment on. One of the over to the folks who will do that. things that we proceeded with was a memorandum of Does that change the responsibilities around the final understanding to help clarify this very circumstance be- report? I know the minister said that that could get put tween the RCMP and WorkSafe. That was a significant off. You’ve got the RCMP. You’ve got all kinds of stuff -go issue. There need to be clearly outlined protocols and an ing on before you may even allow the employer to start understanding of those by all of the parties involved here an investigation of their own, because there are a lot of so that we do not compromise the investigation site. That other people in there who have priority. MOU is now in place, I’m happy to say. Does that change the rules, if it goes off to that second As we look at the other piece the member referenced, body in the investigative process, in terms of the employ- we did, very clearly, separate the investigative teams at er responsibilities or what happens with any of the other WorkSafe. There is a firewall in place that if the prelimin- investigative processes with the committees? ary…. When the first investigation team comes in from WorkSafe, if there is any sense that there is the potential Hon. S. Bond: I just want to respond to the question for regulatory charges, that team now steps aside and the about the differences in the investigation. They are dif- body, the group, that has been trained in case manage- ferent, because as we would all painfully recall, when the ment skills and all of those things would then take over investigations were done here, there were issues around the site and basically begin that investigation from a dif- the need for warrants, the way people were interviewed ferent perspective. — all of those things. 10096 British Columbia Debates Thursday, November 5, 2015

The trigger for the second investigative team is whether changes with WorkSafe, I asked directly if the date, or not there is a potential for charges to be laid. That is January 2016, was doable, and the answer was yes. So critical to me, and I know the member opposite shares I expect that to take place. It does mean a very aggres- that, because we came through this process. As we would sive timeline between now and then to get the work recall, WorkSafe did make recommendations, and Crown done. Obviously, with them knowing that this was my counsel rejected them. We needed to fix that. intention, they — I am assuming — have a lot of that There is a different framework for the investigation that groundwork done, stakeholders ready. I fully expect that takes place if there’s any reason to believe that charges we will see this come into force on January 1. WorkSafe could be laid, because you’ve got to deal with warrants has told me that they can make that work, and I expect and all of those things appropriately. That does change that to happen. the framework for the investigation. What doesn’t change is the employer’s obligation. It S. Simpson: In closing off committee stage, I do hope may take time, and it will take longer. Ultimately, they that one of the things that we’ll see in the regulation — will, at some point, access the site. Thankfully, in most and I would hope the minister might include this in the of the circumstances, it’s the employer, and it’s quickly, letter that she will send — is that at some place, because because they’re not of the magnitude of this kind of loss there are…. Some of this are areas where we’re heading of life and devastation. for different kinds of ground. There have been some ques- The more — I put it carefully in quotations — “usual” tions around this and around other things, around pieces practice is that there’s an incident. The employer, pot- of this legislation. entially, even the same day, begins that investigation. Within the regulatory review, there will be a review Certainly, in these cases, because of the loss of life and all process, whether it’s a year from now or two years from of the circumstances that unfolded, it would take a long now — whatever is kind of settled on as appropriate. A time to get to the employer aspect. But the obligation to review process to allow WorkSafe to go back and take a report and investigate does not change for the employer. look at how the legislation worked, how the regulatory re- I don’t think I’ve said this in the course of our discus- gime worked, get back with stakeholders and say: “Okay, sion and probably should. While WorkSafe has a very we had some objectives to achieve here. How did we do important role to play with worker safety in the prov- in terms of achieving the objectives?” ince, the ultimate group that is responsible for worker Get the input of everybody who should have say in that safety are the employers in this province. They need to do so that we can have some evaluation about whether the the investigation. They need to look at best practice and work, which I think has been meaningful, on the legisla- what’s safe for workers. The obligation doesn’t change. tion is getting to where the minister and, I believe, we all The time period may be extended. want to get to. Are we accomplishing the objectives? I do [1140] hope that that will happen. Finally, I want to say that I’m hopeful. As the minister Section 8 approved. said, I think, at the opening of second reading, these are a couple of steps. These are incremental steps along the On section 9. way to dealing with an array of challenges that I believe we have around worker health and safety. These are steps S. Simpson: Just a couple of quick questions on this. in the right direction, I believe. I think they will make Section 9 is the commencement section. It says that sec- things better, and that’s always a good thing. I’m hopeful, tions 4 to 8 will come into force on January 1. moving forward around that. Those are the sections that deal substantively with I want to thank the minister for the approach. She changes around committees and investigation. Could the certainly was prepared to engage, to have a conversation minister indicate what her thinking or hopes are around about the bill. I think that’s reflected. While we couldn’t the timeline? Presumably, we get to January 1, and this agree on both, I think that’s reflected in the agreement comes into force. I’m sure preliminary work will be done of the government and the minister on one of the two by WorkSafe preceding that, but does the minister have amendments that we were looking for, which we think any expectations about how that timeline or process rolls makes the bill a little better. out — to kind of flesh out the meat on the bones of this? With that, I’m done.

Hon. S. Bond: I do want to reflect on that date. That Hon. S. Bond: I want to, first of all, thank the staff is a very aggressive timeline. What it means is that be- of the ministry and, particularly on this bill, from the tween now and then, WorkSafe has their work cut out for Labour side of our portfolio. There was a great deal of them in terms of the agreements that we’ve made in this work done. When I asked for there to be, in essence, a House and talked about — the need to have consultation. rapid response team to the coroner’s jury recommenda- When I walked through my proposed legislative tions, this team worked incredibly hard. Thursday, November 5, 2015 British Columbia Debates 10097

I want to assure the member opposite that we are Hon. S. Bond: I move the committee rise and report happy to share ongoing progress on the recommenda- the bill complete with amendment. tions that have been directed to government and gov- ernment agencies. As I said, I have taken on the role of Motion approved. coordinating government’s response. [1145] The committee rose at 11:47 a.m. We anticipate very soon being able to send the second letter to the coroner outlining our progress on the second The House resumed; Madame Speaker in the chair. set of recommendations. I do want to say thank you to my deputy minister and Reporting of Bills her team for the good work. BILL 35 — WORKERS COMPENSATION I want to thank the coroner’s juries. I hope that they AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2015 have a sense from the debate that the member and I have engaged in and the discussions we had outside Bill 35, Workers Compensation Amendment Act (No. this chamber that all of us are committed to improving 2), 2015, reported complete with amendment. worker safety. While we do our best to capture the intent of the recommendations and to make sure that this bill Madame Speaker: When should the bill be considered reflects those recommendations, I agree with the mem- as reported? ber that there is a need for ongoing monitoring of our success, not just of this bill but other recommendations, Hon. M. Polak: With leave, now. and that we continue to be vigilant about changes that have been made and look for areas where change still Leave granted. needs to be made. I certainly commit to that process of ongoing review. Third Reading of Bills Just in closing, I do want to thank the member. There are times, certainly as a long-time cabinet minister, when BILL 35 — WORKERS COMPENSATION there are important bills that come before this House. AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2015 And I think that the opportunity for us to look for areas of agreement to make the bill better is important. I do Bill 35, Workers Compensation Amendment Act (No. want to point out that while we didn’t come to agreement 2), 2015, read a third time and passed. on the first amendment, we’re far closer than simply a yes or no on that. I think we are going to get to where the Hon. M. Polak moved adjournment of the House. member opposite would like us to — just, perhaps, with a different mechanism. Motion approved. With that, I conclude my remarks as well. Madame Speaker: This House, at its rising, stands ad- Section 9 approved. journed until 1:30 this afternoon.

Title approved. The House adjourned at 11:48 a.m.

Hansard Reporting Services

Director Robert Sutherland

Manager of Reporting Services Christine Fedoruk

Publishing Supervisor Laurel Bernard

Editorial Team Leaders Janet Brazier, Karol Morris, Robyn Swanson, Glenn Wigmore

Technical Operations Officers Pamela Holmes, Dan Kerr, Yvonne Mendel

Indexers Shannon Ash, Julie McClung, Robin Rohrmoser

Researchers Liz Belsten, Mike Beninger, Mary Beth Hall, David Mattison

Editors Kim Christie, Deirdre Gotto, Jane Grainger, Betsy Gray, Iris Gray, Linda Guy, Barb Horricks, Bill Hrick, Jessica Hutchings, Catherine Lang, Paula Lee, Donna McCloskey, Bob McIntosh, Anne Maclean, Jill Milkert, Lind Miller, Erik Pedersen, Janet Pink, Amy Reiswig, Murray Sinclair, Antoinette Warren, Heather Warren, Arlene Wells, Kim Westad

Published by British Columbia Hansard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker.

Printing Agent Crown Publications, Queen's Printer for British Columbia PO Box 9452 Stn Prov Govt, Victoria, B.C. V8W 9V7 www.crownpub.bc.ca

Daily and annual Hansard subscription information is available from Crown Publications.

www.leg.bc.ca

Access to on-line versions of the official report of debatesHansard ( ) and webcasts of proceedings is available on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television.