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Table of Contents

Randy J. Taraborrelli Interview 1978

Rolling Stone Interview 17 February, 1983

Ebony Magazine Interview December, 1984

Ebony Magazine Interview May, 1992

Oprah Winfrey Interview 1993

Ebony Magazine Interview October, 1994

Diane Sawyer Interview June 14, 1995 (Hollywood, USA)

Simulchat Interview Thursday, 17 August 1995

VH1 Interview 10 November, 1996

Molly Meldrum Interview Tuesday, 19 November 1996

Arabic Interview 1996

OK Magazine Interview April 4 & 11, 1997

Barbara Walters Interview September 12, 1997 (televised on ABC)

Life Magazine Interview 1997 'Wetten, Dass...?' March 20, 1999 (Saarlandhalle Saarbrücken, Germany)

The Mirror Interview Tuesday, 13 April 1999

TV Guide Interview December 4, 1999

Pharrell Williams: Music's Hottest Hitmaker Talks to the Thriller (August, 2000)

Online Audio Chat Interview 26 October, 2001

USA Today Interview 1 November, 2001

TV Guide Interview 2001

Steve Harvey Radio Show Interview March 08, 2002

VIBE Magazine Interview March, 2002

Gold Magazine Interview 2002

Rick Dees Interview Wednesday, 10 September 2003

Ed Bradley Interview 28 December, 2003

Brett Ratner Interview Sunday, 01 February 2004

Jesse Jackson Radio Show Interview 2005

Geraldo Rivera Interview 5 February, 2005

Billy Bush Interview 15 October, 2006 Interview by Randy J. Taraborrelli (1978)

When John Whyman, the photographer, and I [Taraborrelli] pulled up to the ominous black wrought-iron gate at 4641 Hayvenhurst, the Jacksons' estate, it stood open, but Whyman pressed the buzzer on the squawk box anyway. We had heard about the vicious guard dogs and did not want to take any chances. An electronic camera, conspicuously mounted on a fifteen-foot-high pole, seemed to zoom in for closer inspection. Our images, we later learned, were being projected on a closed-circuit television screen in the Jackson kitchen. "You may come in," said a disembodied male voice.

We pulled into the circular driveway, a cache of Cadillacs, Rolls Royces, Mercedes- Benzes, Datsun 240Zs, and a Pantara. Three angry sentry dogs, penned up at the end of the drive, hurled themselves against the chain link fence. Their ferocious barks were in contrast to the raucous cries of three large peacocks-one pure white-caged nearby. The sound from the peacocks was something akin to a baby's wail and a cat's howl. We decided to wait in the car.

Looking around, I noticed a custom-made street sign, Jackson 5 Boulevard, nailed to a nearby tree trunk. To the left stood a basketball court. I glanced up at the two-story house and noticed four expressionless faces staring down at us from as many windows. Michael, LaToya, Randy, and their mother, Katherine, had their countenances pressed against the panes as if they were prisoners in a compound.

It seemed that nobody would rescue us, so we took our chances, got out of the car, and approached the front door. I rang the doorbell. Twenty-two-year-old LaToya, in a white tennis outfit, answered. When Michael approached seconds later, she excused herself, walked out into the driveway, got into a sporty red Mercedes convertible, and sped off. "Glad you could make it," Michael said as we shook hands. He was wearing a yellow Jaws T-shirt, black jeans, and a safari hat, around which his afro seemed to billow. His feet were bare and, to me, he looked painfully thin. He spoke in an odd, falsetto whisper, which seemed even softer than it had the last time we had talked. In exactly a week, he would turn twenty.

Michael led us through the house toward the living room. A huge yellow and green parrot sat perched on a ledge outside the window, shucking peanuts. A red, blue, and yellow cockatoo eyed us warily through another window. It let out an ear piercing screech as we sat down. I suddenly felt like I was at a zoo.

"How come you're not getting your guests lemonade?" Katherine asked her son when she came into the room. I could not help noticing that Michael's mother walked with a slight limp, the result of a bout with polio she had as a child. At some times the handicap was more pronounced than at others. "Oh, sorry," Michael murmured. He dashed off to the kitchen, giving me an opportunity to talk alone with his forty-nine-year-old- mother while the photographer set up his equipment.

The house, which they had lived in since 1971, was a combination pale yellow, soft green, and white, a reflection of Katherine's warm personality. She was gregarious, friendly, and she had a benevolent glow about her. She told me she had decorated the house herself as an assignment for a home-decorating class. She mentioned that Michael's favorite foods were hot apple turnovers and sweet potato pies.

"Only now I can't get him to eat anything. I try and try," she said, shrugging her shoulders. "I keep thinking he'll eat when he gets hungry, but the boy never gets hungry. Have you noticed how skinny he is? It worries me."

I looked around at the opulent furnishings. "These last few years have certainly been good ones," I said to Katherine. "Maybe the best of your life?" "Not really," she answered thoughtfully. "The best years were back when Michael was about three and I used to sing folk songs with him. You see, I'd always wanted to be a country star, but who'd ever heard of a black country star back then? Those restrictions, again. Anyway, we had one bedroom for the boys and they all slept together in triple bunk beds. Before going to sleep, we'd all sing. We were all so happy then. I'd switch my life now and give up all that we have now for just one of those days back in Gary when it was so much simpler. When we first came to California, I don't know how many times I said, "I wish things were the way they used to be in Gary." But things have never been the same," she added sadly. "It's all changed now."

Michael came back into the room juggling two glasses of lemonade. He handed one to me and the other to the photographer and then sat in a chair, lotus position. Katherine excused herself.

During our two-hour interview, Michael shared his thoughts on a wide range of topics. "I don't know much about politics," Michael admitted. "Nothing, I guess. Someone told me recently that Gerald Ford was president." He laughed a silvery peal, as he did often; he was in good spirits this afternoon, not at all the shy, reclusive superstar he would become in a few years. I laughed with him because I was certain we were sharing a joke, but we weren't. He was serious. "I remember when he was vice-president," Michael continued thoughtfully. "That I remember. But president?" He shrugged his shoulders helplessly. "That I missed." In just a few years, Michael would become an avid reader and exchange ideas about politics with Jane Fonda. But at the time, Michael was quite naive about current events. Astounded at the extreme isolation of this twenty-year-old's world, I began to probe deeper. "How do you keep up with current events? Do you read newspapers? Watch TV?" "I watch cartoons," he told me. "I love cartoons." His eyes lit up. "I love Disney so much. The Magic Kingdom. Disneyland. It's such a magical place. Walt Disney was a dreamer, like me. And he made his dreams come true, like me. I hope." "What about current events?" Michael looked at me blankly, "Current events?" "Do you read the paper?" I repeated. He shook his head no. "See, I like show business. I listen to music all the time. I watch old movies. Fred Astair movies. Gene Kelly, I love. And Sammy [Davis]. I can watch those guys all day, twenty-four hours a day. That's what I love the most. Show business, you know?"

We talked about old movies for a while, and about his involvement in The Wiz, the film he had just finished shooting in which he plays the Scarecrow. I asked what he saw as his biggest professional challenge. "To live up to what Joseph expects of me." "Joseph? Who's Joseph?" I wondered. "My father, Joseph." "You call your father by his first name?" I asked. "Uh-huh." "And living up to what he expects of you is a professional challenge?" Michael mulled over my question. "Yes. A professional challenge." "What about the personal challenges?" "My professional challenges and personal challenges are the same thing," he said uneasily. "I just want to entertain. See, when I was in the second grade, the teacher asked me what I wished for. I asked for a mansion, for peace in the world, and to be able to entertain...Can we talk about something else?"

"Do you have any friends that you can really confide in?" Michael squirmed. "No, not really. I guess I'm pretty lonely." "How about Tatum O'Neal?" I wondered. Michael shrugged his shoulders. "She's nice. She was really happy for me when I got the part in the Wiz. She and Ryan were on my side, helping me with my lines, and I owe them a lot. Tatum understands me, I guess. She's gonna teach me how to drive a car. She introduces me to people, famous, famous people. But my real dates, they're the girls who stand outside the gate out there. I go out and sign autographs for them when I can. They like that. They stay on one side of the gate, and I stay on the other." "You mean you keep the gate closed?" I asked. "Oh, yeah. Of course."

"Any other friends?" "Well, I do have one friend," he said. "A very dear, close friend that I can tell my deepest, darkest secrets to because I know she won't tell anyone, not another living soul. Her name is..." He paused dramatically. "Miss Diana Ross." "You have deep, dark secrets, Michael?" He laughed, "Everybody has deep, dark secrets."

At this point, Michael was joined by his brothers Jackie, Tito, Marlon, and Randy. Michael talked about the group's success at Motown and about the fanatical hysteria generated by their fame, which Motown tagged "Jacksonmania." "Once at a record store in San Francisco, over a thousand kids showed up," he said in a hushed tone. "They all pushed forward and broke a window. A big piece of glass fell on top of this girl. And the girl's throat..." he paused for effect, "was slit." Michael swiftly ran his index finger across his neck. "Michael, don't do that. That's gross," his youngest brother, Randy, said. Michael ignored Randy and continued with his story. "She just got slit. And I remember there was blood everywhere. Oh God, so much blood. And she grabbed her throat and was bleeding and everyone just ignored her. Why? Because I was there and they wanted to grab at me and get my autograph." Michael sighed. "I wonder whatever happened to that girl." "Probably dead," Tito muttered. Jackie tried to stifle a laugh. Fans were as much a curse as a blessing. "We got three guard dogs. One is Heavy, one is Black Girl, and the other one don't got no name," Michael said. "We have to have them," he insisted. "See, once a lady jumped over the gate and into the house and sat down in the den. We came home, and she looked at us and what did she say?" He turned to Marlon for help. "What'd that lady say?" "She said, 'I'm here cause God sent me,'" Marlon replied. "Yeah, God sent her," Michael repeated. Jackie laughed again. "Yeah, God sent her to sit in the Jackson 5's den and wait for them to get home so she can get their autograph, and maybe her picture with em too. She was on a divine mission. Man, that's funny."

"And then once, a whole family managed to get into the estate somehow, and they toured the whole house," Michael continued. "Lookin' all in our stuff. Findin' all our most private things. And Janet was here all by herself. It was scary. And sometimes, fans ask weird questions. They don't think you're real. Once a fan asked me the most embarrassing question and in front of everyone. She said, "Do you go to the bathroom?" I was so embarrassed."

In the middle of the interview, the good-natured ribbing among the brothers turned nasty when someone brought up the subject of nicknames. "Mike has a nickname," Jackie mentioned. "It's a real good one." Michael's smiling face suddenly turned dead serious. "Don't, Jackie," he warned. He looked away. "We call him-" "Please, you guys!" Michael pleaded. "Big Nose," Jackie continued, oblivious to Michael's embarrassment. The brothers laughed among themselves. Michael's face became flushed. "Yeah, Big Nose," Marlon repeated, grinning. "We call him Big Nose." Marlon reached over and punched Michael on the arm playfully. "What's happenin', Big Nose?"

But Michael was not laughing. He seemed to curl up inside himself. The others ignored him, continuing their game until Michael seemed close to tears. He would hardly say anything the rest of the afternoon. "That ain't funny, guys," Tito said in his monotone.

After the interview, we walked outside to take photographs in the warm California sunlight. Father Joseph Jackson, a hulking six-footer with a mole on his face, a pencil- thin mustache, and a pinky ring with a diamond the size of a marble, came swaggering into the yard. "The boys aren't taking any pictures," he said to photographer Whyman. "But the publicist from Epic said for us to come dressed for pictures," Marlon protested. "Maybe we can get a couple of shots with you in them," Whyman offered, hoping to charm Joseph. Joe considered the offer. He took a deep breath and puffed up his chest. "Let's take some pictures, boys." After the picture session, the photographer and Michael went off to the aviaries nearby, which were stocked with large, colorful birds. Joseph Jackson approached me.

"You see, I have a philosophy about raising children," he suddenly said, although I hadn't asked him a question. "My father was strict. He was a schoolteacher, and he treated me like I was one of his students, not like I was his son. I never got any special treatment from him. And I'm glad that happened. I got a strict raising when I was young, and I've been able to accomplish a lot because of that. And my kids have gotten a strict raising, and look at what they've accomplished. I think children should fear their parents more. It's good when they fear you a little. It's good for them, and it's good for the parents too. I did my best with those boys, the best I could do." "Have they ever disappointed you?" I asked. Joe pondered the question. "Lots of times," he said. "Look at the thing with Jermaine. Jermaine's over there with Berry at Motown instead of with us. Chose Berry over me. Do you know how that makes me feel? It hurts deep. It hurts right here." Joe thumped the left side of his chest with a clenched fist. "I've been disappointed lots of other times too," he continued. "But I don't think I have ever once let my boys down. If I did, too bad for them. You do the best you can do, raising kids. It helped that they had something to look forward to. "My boys, they always had entertainment, and me to rehearse them. And they also play character-building sports like football and baseball," he said proudly. "Did they tell you that? Jackie coulda been a baseball player if he wanted to. In the majors. Chicago White Sox. They're all good at sports. Except for Michael. Never picked up a bat in his whole life." Joe smiled. "Wouldn't know what to do with a baseball bat. We tease him about it, but he don't like that too much. Michael has always been very, very sensitive. "Another thing you should know about Michael," Joe said, "is that ever since he was four, he wanted to be an entertainer. And he always wanted to be number one. That's why sports upsets him so much, cause his brothers can whip him and outdo him at sports and he can't be number one. But in music, Michael knows he's number one. Number one," Joe repeated, nodding his head. "That's what Michael has always wanted to be. Number one. "And speakin' of Michael, Marlon told me what happened. You're not gonna write that part about Michael's nickname, are you?" he asked. I told him I wasn't certain how I would handle it. He doesn't like that nickname they gave him. Liver Lips." "Liver Lips? They told me his nickname is Big Nose." "Oh, yeah," Joe said. "That boy's so sensitive about his nose. Do you see anything wrong with his nose?" I shook my head. "No, not at all." "Me neither," Joe said. "But that's all he ever talks about. His damn nose. Threatened to have it fixed. What can he do with it?" Joe looked perplexed. "I told him I'd break his face if he ever had it fixed." He laughed. "You don't fix something that ain't broke. He's got a great nose. It looks like mine."

Afterwards, Michael returned to the living room for some final thoughts about his life and career. As the photographer and I watched, he crossed his left leg over his right knee and began absentmindedly picking at his toenails. "When I'm not onstage, I'm not the same. I'm different," he observed. "I think I'm some kind of stage addict. When I don't get onto a stage for a long time, I have fits and get real crazy. I start crying, and I act weird and all freaked out. No kiddin', I do. I start to dancin' round the house." He began to talk rapidly. "It's like a part of me is missin' and I gotta get it back, cause if I don't, I won't be complete. So I gotta dance and I gotta sing, you know? I have this craving. Onstage is the only place I'm comfortable. I'm not comfortable around...," he paused, searching for the right word, "normal people. But when I get out onstage, I really open up and I have no problems. Whatever is happening in my life don't matter no more. I'm up there and cuttin' loose and I say to myself, "This is it. This is home. This is exactly where I'm supposed to be, where God meant for me to be." I'm unlimited when I'm onstage. I'm number one. But when I'm off the stage," he shrugged his shoulders, "I'm not really..." Again he paused, trying to find the right word. "Happy."

Earlier in the day, I had conducted an interview with Sidney Lumet, director of The Wiz. "Michael Jackson is the most gifted entertainer to come down the pike since, I guess, James Dean," Lumet told me. "He's a brilliant actor and dancer, probably one of the rarest entertainers I have ever worked with. His talent is awesome." I shared Lumet's observation with Michael. He seemed embarrassed for a moment. "Who's James Dean?" He asked.

Later, he began talking about his role as the Scarecrow in The Wiz. "What I like about my character," he observed, "is his, I guess you could call it, his confusion. He knows that he has these, uh, these problems, I guess you could call them. But he doesn't know exactly why he has them or how he got that way. And he understands that he sees things differently from the way everyone else does, but he can't put his finger on why. He's not like other people. No one understands him. So he goes through his whole life with this, uh...," he paused, "confusion." Michael Jackson looked away from his toenails for a split second. "Everybody thinks he's very special," he concluded thoughtfully, "But, really, he's very sad. He's so, so sad. Do you understand?" He asked urgently. "Do you understand his sadness?" Interview with Rolling Stone (1983)

Michael Jackson: Life In The Magical Kingdom by Gerri Hirshey Feb 17, 1983

IT'S NOON, AND SOMEWHERE IN THE SAN FERNANDO Valley, the front shades of a row of condos are lowered against a hazy glare. Through the metal gate, the courtyard is silent, except for the distance splat of a fountain against its plastic basin. Then comes the chilling whine of a real-life Valley girl. "Grandmuther. I am not gonna walk a whole block. It's humid. My hair will be brillo."

And the soothing counterpoint of maternal encouragement: "Be good pup, Jolie. Make for mama."

All along the courtyard's trimmed inner paths, poodles waddle about trailing poodle- cut ladies on pink leashes.

"Not what you expected, huh?" From behind a mask of bony fingers, Michael Jackson giggles. Having settled his visitor on the middle floor of his own three-level condo, Michael explains that the residence is temporary, while his Encino, California, home is razed and rebuilt. He concedes that this is an unlikely spot for a young prince of pop.

It is also surprising to see that Michael has decided to face this interview alone. He says he has not done anything like this for over two years. And even when he did, it was always with a cordon managers, other Jackson brothers and, in one case, his younger sister Janet parroting a reporter's questions before Michael would answer them. The small body of existing literature paints him as excruciatingly shy. He ducks, he hides, he talks to his shoe tops. Or he just doesn't show up. He is known to conduct his private life with almost obsessive caution, "just like a hemophiliac who can't afford to be scratched in any way." The analogy is his.

Run this down next to the stats, the successes, and it doesn't add up. He has been the featured player with the Jackson Five since grade school. In 1980, he stepped out of the Jacksons to record his own LP, Off the Wall, and it became the best-selling album of the year. Thriller, his new album, is Number Five on the charts. And the list of performers now working with him--or wanting to--includes Paul McCartney, Quincy Jones, Steven Spielberg, Diana Ross, Queen and Jane Fonda. On record, onstage, on TV and screen, Michael Jackson has no trouble stepping out. Nothing scares him, he says. But this....

"Do you like doing this?" Michael asks. There is a note of incredulity in his voice, as though he were asking the question of a coroner. He is slumped in a dining-room chair, looking down into the lower level of the living room. It is filled with statuary. There are some graceful, Greco-Roman type bronzes, as well as a few pieces from the suburban birdbath school. The figures are frozen around the sofa like some ghostly tea party.

Michael himself is having little success sitting still. He is so nervous that he is eating-- plowing through--a bag of potato chips. This is truly odd behavior. None of his brothers can recall seeing anything snacky pass his lips since he became a strict vegetarian health-food disciple six years ago. In fact, Katherine Jackson, his mother, worries that Michael seems to exist on little more than air. As far as she can tell, her son just has no interest in food. He says that if he didn't have to eat to stay alive, he wouldn't.

"I really do hate this," he says. Having polished off the chips, he has begun to fold and refold a newspaper clipping. "I am much more relaxed onstage than I am right now. But hey, let's go." He smiles. Later, he will explain that "let's go" is what his bodyguard always says when they are about to wade into some public fray. It's also a phrase Michael has been listening for since he was old enough to tie his own shoes.

LET'S GO, BOYS. With that, Joe Jackson would round up his sons Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Michael. "Let's go" has rumbled from the brothers' preshow huddle for more than three-quarters of Michael's life, first as the Jackson Five on Motown and now as the Jacksons on Epic. Michael and the Jacksons have sold over a 100 million records. Six of their two dozen Motown singles went platinum; ten others went gold. He was just eleven in 1970 when their first hit, "I Want You Back," nudged out B.J. Thomas' "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head," for Number One.

Michael says he knew at age five, when he sang "Climb Ev'ry Mountain" in school and laid out the house, that something special was going on. Back then, such precocity frightened his mother. But years later it soothed hearts and coffers at Epic when Off the Wall sold over 5 million in the U.S., another 2 million worldwide and one of its hit singles, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," won him a Grammy. The LP yielded four Top Ten hit singles, a record for a solo artist and a feat attained only by Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, and by the combined efforts on the Grease and Saturday Night Fever soundtracks.

If a jittery record industry dared wager, the smart money would be on Michael Jackson. Recent months have found him at work on no fewer than three projects: his own recently released Thriller; Paul McCartney's work-in-progress, which will contain two Jackson-McCartney collaborations, "Say, Say, Say" and "The Man"; and the narration and one song for the storybook E.T. album on MCA for director Steven Spielberg and producer Quincy Jones. In his spare time, he wrote and produced Diana Ross' single "Muscles." This indeed a young man in a hurry. Already he is looking past the album he is scheduled to make with the Jacksons this winter. There is a chance of a spring tour. And then there are the movies. Since his role as the scarecrow in The Wiz, his bedroom has been hip-deep in scripts.

At twenty-four, Michael Jackson has one foot planted firmly on either side of the Eighties. His childhood hits are golden oldies, and his boyhood idols have become his peers. Michael was just ten when he moved into Diana Ross' Hollywood home. Now he produces her. He was five when the Beatles crossed over; now he and McCartney wrangle over the same girl on Michael's single "The Girl Is Mine." His showbiz friends span generations as well. He hangs out with the likes of such other kid stars as Tatum O'Neal and Kristy McNichol, and ex-kid star Stevie Wo nder. He gossips long distance with Adam Ant and Liza Minnelli, and has heart-to-hearts with octogenarian Fred Astaire. When he visited the set of On Golden Pond, Henry Fonda baited fishbooks for him. Jane Fonda is helping him learn acting. Pen pal Katharine Hepburn broke a lifelong habit of avoiding rock by attending a 1981 Jacksons concert at Madison Square Garden.

Even E.T. would be attracted to such a gentle spirit. according to Steven Spielberg, who says he told Michael, "If E.T. didn't come to Elliot, he would have come to your house." Spielberg also says he thought of no one else to narrate the saga of his timorous alien. "Michael is one of the last living innocents who is in complete control of his life. I've never seen anybody like Michael. He's an emotional star child."

CARTOONS ARE FLASHING SILENTLY ACROSS THE GIANT screen that glows in the darkened den. Michael mentions that he loves cartoons. In fact, he loves all things "magic." This definition is wide enough to include from Bambi to James Brown.

"He's so magic," Michael says of Brown, admitting that be patterned his own quicksilver choreography on the Godfather's classic bag of stage moves. "I'd be in the wings when I was like six or seven. I'd sit there and watch him."

Michael's kindergarten was the basement of the Apollo Theater in Harlem. He was too shy to actually approach the performers the Jackson Five opened for--everyone from Jackie Wilson to Gladys Knight, the Temptations and Etta James. But he says he had to know everything they did--how James Brown could do a slide, a spin and a split and still make it back before the mike hit the floor. How the mike itself disappeared through the Apollo stage floor. He crept downstairs, along passageways and walls and hid there, peering from behind the dusty flanks of old vaudeville sets while musicians tuned, smoked, played cards and divvied barbecue. Climbing back tothe wings, he stood in the protective folds of the musty maroon curtain, watching his favorite acts, committing every double dip and every bump, snap, whip-it-back mike toss to his inventory of night moves. Recently, for a refresher course, Michael went to see James Brown perform at an L.A. club. "He's the most electrifying. He can take an audience anywhere he wants to. The audience just went bananas. He went wild--and at his age. He gets so out of himself."

Getting out of oneself is a recurrent theme in Michael's life, whether the subject is dancing, singing or acting. As a Jehovah's Witness, Michael believes in an impending holocaust, which will be followed by the second coming of Christ. Religion is a large part of his life, requiring intense Bible study and thrice-weekly meetings at a nearby Kingdom Hall. He has never touched drugs and rarely goes near alcohol. Still, despite the prophesied Armageddon, the spirit is not so dour as to rule out frequent hops on the fantasy shuttle.

"I'm a collector of cartoons," he says. "All the Disney stuff, Bugs Bunny, the old MGM ones. I've only met one person who has a bigger collection than I do, and I was surprised--PaulMcCartney. He's a cartoon fanatic. Whenever I go to his house, we watch cartoons. When we came here to work on my album, we rented all these cartoons from the studio, Dumbo and some other stuff. It's real escapism. It's like everything's all right. It's like the world is happening now in a faraway city. Everything's fine.

"The first time I saw E.T., I melted through the whole thing," he says. "The second time, I cried like crazy. And then, in doing the narration, I felt like I was there with them, like behind a tree or something, watching everything that happened."

So great was Michael's emotional involvement that Steven Spielberg found his narrator crying in the darkened studio when he got to the part where E.T. is dying. Finally, Spielberg and producer Quincy Jones decided to run with it and let Michael's voice break. Fighting those feelings would be counterproductive--something Jones had already learned while producing Off the Wall.

"I had a song I'd been saving for Michael called "She's Out of My Life," he remembers. "Michael heard it, and it clicked. But when he sang it, he would cry. Every time we did it, I'd look up at the end and Michael would be crying. I said, 'We'll come back in two weeks and do it again, and maybe it won't tear you up so much.' Came back and he started to get teary. So we left it in."

This tug of war between the controlled professional and the vulnerable, private Michael surfaces in the lyrics he has written for himself. In "Bless His Soul," a song on the Jacksons' Destiny LP that Michael says is definitely about him, he sings:

Sometimes I cry cause I'm confused

Is this a fact of being used?

There is no life for me at all

Cause I give myself at beck and call.

Two of the Jackson-written cuts on Thriller strengthen that defensive stance. "They eat off you, you're a vegetable," he shouts on "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'." "Beat It," a tense, tough dance cut, flirts with paranoia" "You have to show them that you're really not scared/You're playin' with your life, this ain't no truth or dare/ They'll kick you, then they beat you/Then they'll tell you it's fair."

Yes, he says, he feels used, declining specifics, saying only that in his profession, "They demand that, and they want you to do this. They think thay they own you, they think they made you. If you don't have faith, you go crazy. Like not doing interviews. If I talk, I say what's on my mind, and it can seem strange to other peoples' ears. I'm the kind of person who will tell it all, even though it's a secret. And I know that things should be kept private."

For his own protection, Michael has rigged himself of a set of emotional floodgates, created situations where it's okay to let it all out. "Some circumstances require me to be real quiet," he says. "But I dance every Sunday." On that day, he also fasts.

This, his mother confirms, is a weekly ritual that leaves her son laid out, sweating, laughing and crying. It is also a ritual very similar to Michael's performances. Indeed, the weight of the Jacksons' stage show rests heavily on his narrow, sequined shoulders. There is nothing tentative about his solo turns. He can tuck his long, thin frame into a figure skater's spin without benefit of ice or skates. Aided by the burn and flash of silvery body suits, he seems to change molecular structure at a will, all robot angles one second and rippling curves the next. So sure is the body that his eyes are often closed, his face turned upward to some unseen muse. The bony chest heaves. He pants, bumps and squeals. He has been known to leap offstage and clim up into the rigging.

At home, in his room, he dances until he falls down. Michael says the Sunday dance sessions are also an effective way to quiet his stage addiction when he is not touring. Sometimes in these off periods, another performer will call him up from the audience. And in the long, long trip from his seat to the stage, the two Michaels duke it out.

"I sit there and say, 'Please don't call me up, I am too shy,'" Jackson says. "But once I get up there, I take control of myself. Being onstage is magic. There's nothing like it. You feel the energy of everbody who's out there. You feel it all over your body. When the lights hit you, it's all over, I swear it is."

He is smiling now, sitting upright, trying to explain weightlessness to the earthbound.

"When it's time to go off, I don't want to. I could stay up there forever. It's the same thing with making a movie. What's wonderful about a film is that you can become another person. I love to forget. And lots of times, you totally forget. It's like automatic pilot. I mean--whew."

During shooting for The Wiz, he became so attached to his Scarecrow character, the crew literally had to wrench him from the set and out of his costume. He was in Oz, and wasn't keen on leaving it for another hotel room.

"That's what I loved about doing E.T. I was actually there. The next day, I missed him a lot. I wanted to go back to that spot I was yesterday in the forest. I wanted to be there."

Alas, he is still at the dining-room table in his condo. But despite the visible strain, he's holding steady. And he brightens at a question about his animals. He says he talks to his menagerie every day. "I have two fawns. Mr. Tibbs looks like a ram; he's got the horns. I've got a beautiful llama. His name is Louie." He's also into exotic birds like macaws, cockatoos and a giant rhea.

"Stay right there," he says, "and I'll show you something." He takes the stairs to his bedroom two at a time. Though I know we are the only people in the apartment, I hear him talking.

"Aw, were you asleep? I'm sorry...."

Seconds later, an eight-foot boa constrictor is deposited on the dining-room table. He is moving in my direction at an alarming rate.

"This is Muscles. And I have trained him to eat interviewers."

Muscles, having made it to the tape recorder and flicked his tongue disdainfully, continues on toward the nearest source of warm blood. Michael thoughtfully picks up the reptile as its snub nose butts my wrist. Really, he insists, Muscles is quite sweet. It's all nonsense, this stuff about snakes eating people. Besides, Muscles isn't even hungry; he enjoyed his weekly live rat a couple of days ago. If anything, the stranger's presence has probably made Muscles a trifle nervous himself. Coiled around his owner's torso, his tensile strength has made Michael's forearm a vivid bas-relief of straining blood vessels. To demonstrate the snake's sense of balance, Michael sets him down on a three-inch wide banister, where he will remain, motionless, for the next hour or so.

"Snakes are very misunderstood," he says. Snakes, I suggest, may be the oldest victims of bad press. Michael whacks the table and laughs.

"Bad press. Ain't it so, Muscles?

The sanke lifts its head momentarily, then settles back on the banister. All three of us are a bit more relaxed.

"Know what I also love?" Michael volunteers. "Manikins,"

Yes, he means the kind you see wearing mink bikinis in Beverly Hills store windows. When his new house is finished, he says he'll have a room with no furniture, just a desk and a bunch of store dummies.

"I guess I want to bring them to life. I like to imagine talking to them. You know what I think it is? Yeah, I think I'll say it. I think I'm accompanying myself with friends I never had. I probably have two friends. And I just got them. Being an entertainer, you just can't tell who is your friend. And they see you so differently. A star instead of a next-door neighbor."

He pauses, staring down at the living-room statues.

"That's what it is. I surround myself with people I want to be my friends. And I can do that with manikins. I'll talk to them."

All of this is not to say that Michael is friendless. On the contrary, people are clamoring to be his friend. That's just the trouble: with such staggering numbers knocking at the gate, it becomes necessary to sort and categorize. Michael never had a school chum. Or a playmate. Or a steady girlfriend. The two mystery friends he mentioned are his first civilians. As for the rest....

"I know people in show business."

Foremost is Diana Ross, with whom he shares his "deepest, darkest secrets" and problems. But even when they are alone together, their world is circumscribed. And there's Quincy Jones, "who I think is wonderful. But to get out of the realm of show business, to become like everybody else...."

To forget. To get out of the performing self.

"Me and Liza, say. Now, I would consider her a great friend, but a show-business friend. And we're sitting there talking about this movie, and she'll tell me all about Judy Garland. And then she'll go, 'Show me that stuff you did at rehearsal.'" He feints a dance move. "And I'll go, 'Show me yours.' We're totally into each other's performance."

This Micahel does not find odd, or unacceptable. It's when celebrity makes every gesture stars simply make up their minds to get on with things, no matter what. Diana Ross marched bravely into a Manhattan shoe store with her three daughters and I had them fitted for running shoes, despite the crowd of 200 that convened on the sidewalk. Michael, who's been a boy in a bubble since the age of reason, would find that intolerable. He will go to only one L.A. restaurant, a health-food place where the owners know him. As for shopping, Michael avoids it by having a secretary or aide pick out clothes for him. "You don't get peace in a shop. If they don't know your name, they know your voice. And you can't hide."

He won't say love stinks. But sometimes it smarts.

"Being mobbed hurts. You feel like you're spaghetti among thousands of hands. They're just ripping you and pulling your hair. And you feel that any moment you're gonna just break."

Thus, Michael must travel with the veiled secrecy of a pasha's prized daughter. Any tourism is attempted from behind shades, tinted limo glass and a bodyguard's somber serge. Even in a hotel room, he hears females squeal and scurry like so many mice in the walls

"Girls in the lobby, coming up the stairway. You hear guards getting them out of elevators. But you stay in your room and write a song. And when you get tired of that, you talk to yourself. Then let it all out onstage. That's what it's like."

No argument -- it ain't natural. But about those store dummies? Won't it be just as eerie to wake up in the middle of the night to all those polystyrene grins?

"Oh, I'll give them names. Like the statues you see down there." He motions to the living-room crowd. "They've got names. I feel as if they know them. I'll go down there and talk to them."

A restless rhthym is jiggling his foot, and the newspaper clipping has long been destroyed. Michael is apologetic, explaining that he can sit still for just so long. On an impulse, he decides to drive us to the house under construction. Though his parents forced him to learn two years ago, Michael rarely drives. When he does, he refuses to travel freeways, taking hour-long detours to avoid them. He has learned the way to only a few "safe" zones--his brothers' homes, the health-food restaurant and the Kingdom Hall.

First, Muscles must be put away. "He's real sweet," Michael says as he unwinds the serpent from the banister. "I'd like you to wrap him around you before you go."

This is not meant as a prank, and Michael will not force the issue. But fear of interviews can be just as deep-rooted as fear of snakes, and in consenting to talk, Michael was told the same thing he's telling me now: Trust me. It won't hurt you.

We compromise. Muscles cakewalks across an ankle. His tongue is dry. It just tickles. Block out the primal dread, and it could be a kitten whisker. "You truly believe," says Michael, "with the power of reason, that this animal won't harm you now, right? But there's this fear, built in by the world, by what people say, that makes you shy away like that."

Having politely made their point, Michael and Muscles disappear upstairs.

"HI, MICHAEL." A few such girlish messages are scratched into the paint of a somber security sign on the steel driveway gate at his house. There is a fence, dogs and guards, but girls still will loiter outside, in cars and in bushes.

As Michael conducts the tour of the two-story Tudor-style house, it's clear that the room he will sleep in is almost monkish compared to those he has had designed for his pleasures and the ones reserved for his sisters Janet and LaToya, who pored over every detail of their wallpapered suites. "Girls are fussy," he explains, stepping over a power saw in his bedroom. "I just don't care. I wanted room to dance and have my books."

The rooms Michael inspects most carefully are those marked for recreation. "I'm putting all this stuff in," he says, "so I will never have to leave and go out there." The "stuff" includes a screening room with two professional projectors and a giant speaker. And then an exercise room, one for videogames and another with a giant- screen video system. In addition, there is a huge chamber off the backyard patio, which has been designated the Pirate Room. It will be not so much decorated as populated. More dummies. But this set will talk back. Michael has been consulting with a Disney technician, the very man who designed the Audio-Animatronics figures for the Disneyland ride Pirates of the Caribbean. If all goes well, he will install several scowling, scabbard-waving buccaneers, wenches and sea dogs right here. "There won't be any rides," Michael says. "But there will be a pirate shootout, cannons guns. They'll just scream at one another and I'll have the lights, sounds, everything."

Pirates is one of his favorite rides in the Magic Kingdom. And Disneyland is one of the few public spots even he cannot stay away from. Sometimes Michael stops at a magic booth and buys one of those Groucho Masks -- fake glasses with nose attached. But it's better when the staff leads him through back doors and tunnels. It's murder to cross the Court of Sleeping Beauty's Castle in daylight. "I tried to go just last night, but it was closed," he says with some disbelief. "So was Knott's Berry Farm."

If you live in the funhouse, you usually don't have to worry about such things. Michael has sung it himself:

Life ain't so bad at all, if you live it off the wall.

WHEN WE ARRIVE BACK AT THE condo, Michael finds that a test pressing of "The Girl is Mine" has been delivered. This is business. He must check it before release, he explains, as he heads for a listen on the stereo in the den. Before the record is finished, he is puching at phone buttons. In between calls to accountants and managers, he says that he makes all his own decisions, right down to the last sequin on his stage suits -- the only clothes he cares about. He says he can be a merciless interviewer when it comes to choosing management, musicians and concert promoters. He assesses their performances with the rigor of an investigative reporter, questioning his brothers, fellow artists and even reporters for observations. Though he truly believes his talent comes from God, he is acutely aware of its value on the open market. He is never pushy or overbearing, but he does appreciate respect. Do not ask him, for insurance, how long he has been with a particular show-business firm. "Ask me," he corrects, "how long they've been with me."

Those who have worked with him do not doubt his capability. Even those to whom he is a star child. "He's in full control," says Spielberg. "Sometimes he appears to other people to be sort of wavering on the fringes of twilight, but there is great conscious forethought behind everything he does. He's very smart about his career and the choices he makes. I think he is definitely a man of two personalities."

When Michael was looking for a producer for his solo album, Quincy Jones was happy to hear from him. Jones knew Michael was in a special class. A few things tipped him off, he says. First there was the Academy Awards ceremony at which Jones watched twelve-year-old Michael deliver a trash-flick love song to a fascist rodent ("Ben") with astounding poise. Years later, while working with him on The Wiz soundtrack, Jones says, "I saw another side. Watching him in the context of being an actor, I saw a lot of things about him as a singer that rang a lot of bells. I saw a depth that was never apparent, and a commitment. I saw that Michael was growing up."

In the studio, Jones found that his professionalism had matured. In fact, Michael's nose for things is so by-your-leave funky that Jones started calling him Smelly. Fortunately, when corporate rumblings feared the partnership too unlikely to work, Smelly hung tough and cocked an ear inward to his own special rhythms. Indeed, Off the Wall's most memorable cuts are the Jackson-penned dance tunes. "Working Day and Night" with all its breathy asides and deft punctuation, could only have been written by a dancer. "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," the album's biggest-selling single, bops along with that same appealing give-and-go between restraint and abandon. The song begins with Michael talking in a low mumble over a taut, single- string bass bomp:

"You know, I was wonderin'...you know the force, it's got a lot of power, make me feel like a...make me feel like...."

Ooooooh. Fraidy cat breaks into disco monster, with onrushing strings and a sexy, cathartic squeal. The introduction is ten seconds of perfect pop tension. Dance boogie is the welcome release. The arrangement -- high, gusting strings and vocals over a thudding, in-the-pocket rhythm -- is Michael's signature. Smelly, the funky sprite.

It works. Such a creature as Michael is the perfect pop hybrid for Eighties. The fanzine set is not scared off by raunchy lyrics and chest hair. But the R-rated uptown dance crowd can bump and slide right along the greasy tracks. Thriller is eclectic enough to include African chants and some ripping macho-rock guitar work by Eddie Van Halen. It is now being called pop-soul by those into marketing categories. Michael says he doesn't care what anybody wants to call it. Just how it all came about is still a mystery to him--as is the creative process itself.

"I wake up from dreams and go, 'Wow, put this down on paper,'" he says. "The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, 'I'm sorry, I just didn't write this. It's there already.' That's why i hate to take credit for the songs I've written. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it's been done and I'm just a courier bringing it into the world. I really believe that. I love what I do. I'm happy at what I do. It's escapism."

Again, that word. But Michael is right. There is no better definition for good, well- meaning, American pop. Few understand this better than Diana Ross, that Tamla teen turned latter-day pop diva. Her closeness to Michael began when she met the Jacksons.

"No, I didn't discover them," she says, countering the myth. Motown head Berry Gordy had already found them; she simply introduced them on her 1971 television special. "There was an identification between Michael and I," she says. "I was older, he kind of idolized me, and he wanted to sing like me."

She has been pleased to watch Michael become his own person. Still, she wishes he would step out even more. She says she had to be firm and force him to stay in his role as producer on "Muscles." He wanted them to do it jointly. She insisted he go it alone.

"He spends a lot of time, too much time, by himself. I try to get him out. I rented a boat and took my children and Michael on a cruise. Michael has a lot of people around him, but he's very afraid. I don't know why. I think it came from the early days."

Michael's show-business friends, many of them women not thought of as especially motherly, do go to great lengths to push and prod him into the world, and to keep him comfortable. When he's in Manhattan, Ross urges him to go to the theater and the clubs, and counteroffers with quiet weekends at her Connecticut home. In notes and phone calls, Katharine Hepburn has been encouraging about his acting.

Michael has recorded much of this counsel in notebooks and on tape. Visiting Jane Fonda -- whom he's known since they met at a Hollywood party a few years ago--on the New Hampshire set of On Golden Pond proved to be an intensive crash course. In a mirror version of his scenes with the stepgrandson in the movie, Henry fonda took his daughter's rockstar friend out on the lake and showed him how to fish. They sat on a jetty for hours, talking trout and theater. The night Fonda died, Michael spent the evening with Fonda's widow, Shirlee, and his children Jane and Peter. He says they sat around, laughing and crying and watching the news reports. The ease with which Michael was welcomed into her family did not surprise Jane Fonda. Michael and her father got on naturally, she says, because they were so much alike.

"Dad was also painfully self-concious and shy in life," she says, "and he really only felt comfortable when he was behind the mask of a character. He could liberate himself when he was being someone else. That's a lot like Michael.

"In some ways," she continues, "Michael reminds me of the walking wounded. He's an extremely fragile person. I think that just getting on with life, making contact with people, is hard enough, much less to be worried about whither goest the world.

"I remember driving with him one day, and I said, 'God, Michael, I wish I could find a movie I could produce for you.' And suddenly I knew. I said, 'I know what you've got to do. It's Peter Pan.' Tears welled up in his eyes and he said, 'Why did you say that?' with this ferocity. I said, 'I realize you're Peter Pan.' And he started to cry and said, 'You know, all over the walls of my room are pictures of Peter Pan. I've read eerything that [author J.M.] Barrie wrote. I totally identify with Peter Pan, the lost boy of neven-never land.'"

Hearing that Francis Coppola may be doing a film version, Fonda sent word to him that he must talk to Michael Jackson. "Oh, I can see him," she says, "leading lost children into a world of fantasy and magic."

In the book, that fantasy world lies "second to the right star, then straight on til morning" -- no less strange a route, Fonda notes, than Michael's own journey from Indiana.

"From Gary," she says, "straight on to Barrie."

ALL CHILDREN, EXCEPT ONE, grow up. This is the first line of Michael's favorite book, and if you ask Katherine Jackson if she finds this similar to what happened in her own brood of nine, she will laugh and say, oh yes, her fifth son is the one.

Five children -- Maureen, Tito, Jackie, Jermaine and Marlon -- are married and have families. LaToya is a very independent young woman. At thirteen, Janet was starring as a self-possessed ghetto twerp on the sitcom Good Times. Now she has a hit single of her own, "Young Love," and appears in the sitcom Diff'rent Strokes. Youngest brother Randy is already living on his own at twenty. Michael is sure he'd just die if he tried that.

"LaToya once told me she thinks that I over protected them all," Mrs. Jackson says. "But under the circumstances, I truly don't think so."

Marriage had brought her from east Indiana, just outside Chicago, to the chilly industrial town of Gary. A growing family had forced Joe Jackson to disband the Falcons, and R & B group he had formed with his two brothers. Playing Chuck Berry and Fats Domino covers in local clubs was as far as they got. The guitar went to the steel mills as a crane operator. The family budget didn t have a lot of slack for toys, but there was an old saxophone, a tambourine, some bongos and a homey patchwork of songs from Katherine's childhood. What she could remember, she taught her children. "It was just plain stuff," she says, "like 'Cotton Fields' and 'You Are My Sunshine.'"

The breadth of the harmony grew with the family. Jackie, Jermaine and Tito started singing together, with Tito on guitar and Jermaine on bass. Then Marlon climbed aboard. Baby Michael, who liked to flail on the bongos, surprised his mother one day when she heard him imitating Jermaine's lead vocals in his clear toddler's falsetto. "I think we have another lead singer," she told her husband. The brothers agreed.

"He was so energetic that at five years old, he was like a leader," says Jackie, at thirty- one the oldest brother. "We saw that. So we said, 'Hey Michael, you be the lead guy.' The audience ate it up. He was into those James Brown things at the time, you know. The speed was the thing. He would see somebody do something, and he could do it right away."

"It was sort of frightening," his mother says. "He was so young. He didn't go out and play much. So if you want me to tell you the truth, I don't know where he got it. He just knew."

By the age of seven, Michael was a dance monster, working out the choreography for the whole group. Local gigs were giving way to opening slots at larger halls in distant cities. Joe Jackson spent weekends and evenings as chauffeur, road manager, agent and coach. He taught Michael how to work a stage and handle a mike. Michael does not remember his father making it fun; the boys always knew it was work. Rules were strict. Grades had to be kept up, even with five shows a night, or the offender would be yanked off the road. When Motown called, Joe took the boys to Detroit, and Katherine stayed in Gary with the rest of the children. She says she never really worried about her children until she went to a show and heard the screams from the audience. "Every time I'd go to a concert I'd worry, because sometimes the girls would get onstage and I'd have top watch them tearing at Michael. He was so small, and they were so big."

There have been some serious incidents, too, one so chilling and bizarre it landed a young woman in a mental institution. So Katherine Jackson has made it her business to talk to some of these wild, persistent girls. What is so very crazy, she says, is that they do it in the name of love. "There are so many," she says. "You have no idea what's really on their minds. That's why it's going to be so hard for my son to get a wife."

Michael is aware of, if not resigned to, the impossibility of that task. He might like to have children in the future, but says he would probably adopt them. For now, he has only to walk into one of his brother's homes and he's instantly covered with nephews. He says he gets along with children better than adults, anyhow: "They don't wear masks."

Kids and animals can nose their way into Michael's most private reserves. It's the showbiz spook show that makes his own growing up so public and hard. He has borne, with patience and good humor, the standard rumors of sex-change operations and paternity accusations from women he has never seen. But clearly they have affected him. "Billie Jean," on Thriller, is a vehement denial of paternity ("the kid is not my son"). In reality there has been no special one. Michael says that he is not in a hurry to jump into any romantic liaison.

"It's like what I told you about finding friends," he says. "With that, it's even harder. With so many girls around, how am I ever gonna know?"

"JUST HERE TO SEE A FRIEND." Michael is politely trying to sidestep an inquiring young woman decked out with the latest video equipment. She blocks the corridor leading to the warren of dressing rooms beneath the L.A. Forum.

"Can i tell my viewers that Michael Jackson is a Queen fan?"

"I'm a Freddie Mercury fan," he says, slipping past her into a long room crowded with Queen band members, wives, roadies and friends. A burly man with the look of a lineback is putting lead singer Freddie Mercury through a set of stretching exercises that will propel his road-weary muscles through the final show of the group's recent U.S. tour. The band is merry. Michael is shy, standing quietly at the door until Freddie spots him and leaps up to gather him in a hug.

Freddie invited Michael. He has been calling all week, mainly about the possibility of their working together. They've decided to try it on the Jacksons' upcoming album. Though they are hardly alike -- Freddie celebrated a recent birthday by hanging naked from a chandelier -- the two have been friendly since Michael listened to the material Queen had recorded for The Game and insisted that the single had to be "Another One Bites the Dust."

"Now listens to me, right Freddie?"

"Righto, little brother."

The linebacker beckons. Freddie waves his cigarette at the platters of fruit, fowl and candy. "You and your friends make yourselves comfortable."

Our escort, a sweet-faced, hamfisted bodyguard, is consulting with security about seat locations. There had been girls lurking outside the condo when Michael sprinted to the limousine, girls peering through the tinted glass as the door locks clicked shut. This was all very puzzling to Michael's guest, who has waiting in the car. he is a real friend, one of the civilians, so normal as to pass unseen by the jaded eyes of celebrity watchers. He has never been to a rock concert, nor has he ever seen Michael perform. He says he hopes to, but mainly, they just hang out together. Sometimes his younger brother even tags along. Most of the time they just talk "just regular old stuff," says the friend. For Michael, it is another kind of magic.

At the moment, though, it's show business as usual. Gossip, to be specific. Michael is questioning a dancer he knows about the recent crises of a fallen superstar. Michael wants to know what the problem is. The dance mimes his answer, laying a finger alongside his nose. Michael nods, and translates for his friend: "Drugs. Cocaine."

Michael admits that he seeks out such gossip, and listen again and again as the famous blurt out their need for escape. "Escapism," he says. "I totally understand."

But addictions are another thing. "I always want to know what makes good performers fall to pieces," he says. "I alway try to find out. Because I just can't believe it's the same things that get them time and time again." So far, his own addictions--the stage, dancing, cartoons--have been free of toxins.

Something's working on Michael now, but it is nothing chemical. He's buzzing like a bumblebee trapped in a jely jar. It's the room we're in, he explains. So many times, he's stretched and bounced and whipped up on his vocal chords right here, got crazy in here, pumping up, shivering like some flighty race horse as he wriggled into his sequined suit.

"I can't stand this," he fairly yells. "I cannot sit still."

Just before he must be held down for his own good. Randy Jackson rockets into the room, containing his brother in a bear hug, helping him dissipate some of the energy with a short bout of wrestling. This is not the same creature who tried to hide behind a potato chip.

Now Michael is boxing with the bodyguard, asking every minute for the time until the man mercifully claps a big hand on the shoulder of his charge and says it: "Let's go."

Mercury and company have already begun moving down the narrow hall, and before anyone can catch him, Michael is drawn into their wake, riding on the low roar of the crowd outside, leaping up to catch a glimpse of Freddie, who is raising a fist and about to take the stairs to the stage.

"Ooooh, Freddie is pumped," says Michael. "I envy him now. You don't know how much."

The last of the band makes the stairs, and the black stage curtain closes. Michael turns and lets himself be led into the darkness of the arena. Interview with Ebony Magazine (1984)

December 1984

The Michael Jackson Nobody Knows

By Robert E. Johnson

As the kinetic and magnetic leader of The Jacksons, whose 1984 Victory Tour attracted the largest concert crowds and sold the most tickets in the history of show business, Michael Jackson is an extraordinary human being who is beyond category.

Although he has been out front and outstanding for 20 years, the 26-year-old singer/songwriter/dancer and actor was not recognized as a super-super-star until his Thriller album became the best-selling LP of all time. Since then, much has been written about him, but the man behind the superstar is still a mystery and a media enigma.

The White media’s Michael Jackson, portrayed mostly through gossip, rumors, hype, and sometimes slander, is not the Michael I have watched and reported on since he emerged from the anonymity of the steel town of Gary, Indiana in 1970. That Michael Jackson - the Michael Jackson nobody knows - is warm, sensitive, vibrant, keenly aware of the mysteries of life and the wonder and magic of children. Several months ago he told me that he was tired of the wave of lies in the White press. What he said then was reflected in the extraordinary and revealing statement he issued at a press conference through his manager, Frank Dileo:

“For some time now, I have been searching my conscience as to whether or not I should publicly react to the many falsehoods that have been spread about me. I have decided to make this statement based on the injustice of these allegations and the far- reaching trauma those who feel close to me are suffering.

“I feel very fortunate to have been blessed with recognition for my efforts. This recognition also brings with it a responsibility to one’s admirers throughout the world. Performers should always serve as role models who set an example for young people. It saddens me that many may actually believe the present flurry of false accusations.”

“To that end, and I do mean END -

“No! I’ve never taken hormones to maintain my high voice.”

“No! I’ve never had my cheekbones altered in any way.”

“No! I’ve never had cosmetic surgery on my eyes.”

“YES!! One day in the future I plan to get married and have a family. Any statements to the contrary are simply untrue.”

“Henceforth, as new fantasies are printed, I have advised my attorneys of my willingness to institute legal action and subsequently prosecute all guilty to the fullest extent of the law.”

“As noted earlier, I love children. We all know that kids are very impressionable and therefore susceptible to such stories. I’m certain that some have already been hurt by this terrible slander. In addition to their admiration, I would like to continue to keep their respect.”

Michael Joseph Jackson, whose middle name is his father’s first, earned respect the old-fashioned way - the same way he earned the title “The World’s Greatest Entertainer”.

His Thriller album has sold over 35 million copies and is still selling. He earns an estimated $2 from the album’s $5 wholesale price and has pocketed some $70 million from worldwide sales.

He organized and now heads corporations that handle his business affairs, including Michael Jackson, Inc., which handles profits from his album and video royalties; Experiments In Sound, which deals with new techniques in recording; and Optimum Productions, which produces his music videos and video versions of records of other artists.

The top winner of record and video awards, he received an unprecedented eight American Music Awards, a record-breaking eight Grammy Awards, and the MTV Video Award.

Born the fifth of six talented sons of Joseph and Katherine Jackson in Gary, Indiana, 26 years ago (August 29, 1958), he is a positive thinker and a creative artist who is motivated by a deep concern for all of humankind and an unyielding love for his profession. His love for fans who have become admirers is, perhaps, without parallel.

Love is what made Michael endure one of the most pressure-filled concert tours of his career. Even though The Jacksons Victory Tour is expected to gross over $70 million, he didn’t perform for the love of money. He said he did it for the love of family, fans, and favorite charities. Although it was projected that his parents, who organized the tour with boxing impresario Don King, could each earn $5 million and each brother pocket about $7.5 million, Michael announced that his share of the concert earnings would go to three worthy causes. They are the United Negro College Fund (UNCF), Camp Good Times for terminally ill children, and the T.J. Martell Foundation for Leukemia and Cancer research.

He is also giving earnings from a special album called Let’s Beat It, to charity. He is doing it, he says, because children inspired him to write the hit single, Beat It, “Children are my biggest inspiration in anything I do,” Michael told this writer. “I adore children - crazy about them. I wanted to write a song, the type of rock song that I would buy….I wanted the kids to really enjoy it, the school kids, as well as the college kids,” said the sensitive songwriter whose two favorite songs are Tchaikovsky’s Nutcracker Suite and Peter and the Wolf.

He spoke of the song, Be Not Always, which he wrote with a little help from his brother, Marlon. In the sensitive, sentimental song recorded in The Jacksons’ Victory album, Michael makes a tearful plea to change a world in which “mothers cry, babies die helplessly in arms…” He observed that all of his brothers feel the same way about children, “not just me.”

Recalling that the late superstar Josephine Baker, an entertainer he admired, had a United Nations of children that she had adopted, Michael smiled broadly and said with assurance:

“I’m going to have children of my own, but I’m going to adopt as many races as I can. That is what I’m going to do. I love children. Like Emmanuel Lewis (tiny, 12-year- old star of TV’s Webster series), he’s a real inspiration.”

Nothing, however, inspires the proud performer more than his family and fans. He talked about this shortly after newspapers circulated reports that he had been spoiled by the success of his Thriller LP and the proliferation of music awards, which included EBONY’s American Black Achievement Award.

“Because I have achieved a lot of broken records with Off The Wall [album] and I’ve been the lead singer for the longest and now with Thriller, which is the all-time best and everything, I’m not planning on leaving,” he said of a rumor that he plans to leave the Jacksons after the tour. “They are my brothers [Jackie, Jermaine, Tito, Marlon, and Randy] and I love them all dearly and I think the media begin to look for something to sell papers and they make up things and they twist them.”

Michael said at the beginning of the tour, “I’m doing it for the joy of touring and the family as a whole, and for the kids out there who bought the records. I’m a stage addict. I have to be on the stage.” Once during an interview at his California home, where he still resides with his parents and sister, LaToya, Michael said, “I would like you to put this in quotations: ‘My main love for what I do is the admirers. I love the fans. Like when I’m doing a show and I see the fans out there dancing and screaming, excited, and we’re bringing that joy to them, that’s what I love most. And it’s just the greatest feeling in the world. You’re up there and you’re giving them that energy and that love and they’re just throwing it right back at you. And it’s great. And that’s my main love, the stage and making those admirers happy.’”

As the interview continues, Michael talks of many subjects that reveal things about him that have been overlooked in the media’s rush for rumors. Here are some of his views:

EBONY: You have to cope with a lot of stress and pressure in the entertainment business. People make all kinds of requests of you and propositions come from all directions. How do you cope with these stresses and pressures?

MICHAEL: I cope with it in a way and I’m not calling myself Jesus because I would never even look at myself on the same level, but I’m comparing it to Jesus because what god gave to him was for a reason and he preached and people came about him and he didn’t get angry and push them aside and say leave me alone, I ain’t got time.

EBONY: But you must encounter some fans who pressure you and provoke you.

MICHAEL: I do get angry at times because there are those who will come up to you with the worst attitude and will say to you, ‘Sit down, sign my baby’s paper.’ They’ll throw it at you. I’ll say, ‘Do you have a pen?’ ‘You don’t have a pen? Well, go get one.’ That’s what they’ll actually tell me….I’m amazed by some of the people. They think they own you. And they’ll say to you, ‘Listen, I made you what you are.’ I say, ‘Wait a minute. You didn’t just buy it [album] to help me. You bought it because you like it and that’s true.’

EBONY: You are looked upon as a role model. You once appeared at the Chicago Public Library to encourage young people and adults to read, and a book marker souvenir was distributed with a quotation from you. Do you still enjoy reading?

MICHAEL: I love to read. I wish I could advise more people to read. There’s a whole other world in books. If you can’t afford to travel, you travel mentally through reading. You can see anything and go any place you want to in reading.

EBONY: Have you had a chance to do any reading related to the Black experience or in terms of Black history?

MICHAEL: Oh, yes! I’m really thankful for what Mr. [John H.] Johnson has done in bringing books through Johnson Publications….I think it’s good to show we are contributing to the world in many ways. That’s what a lot of people think - that we haven’t.

EBONY: How do you keep up with what Black people today are doing, saying, and thinking? And who are some of the people, other than your family and close associates, who influence your thinking?

MICHAEL: I love the way [John H.] Johnson runs his organization. Seems like everybody’s really nice. I’m sure there are quarrels and things, but everybody’s very nice….and have such an influence on the young. People rule their lives by JET and EBONY. I mean, they get their information from those two magazines and the young kids, too. I’ll say, where did you read it? I read it in JET. And they keep up with what’s happening in JET and EBONY. And I think that’s wonderful…God, I admire people like Johnson and [Walt] Disney. I think they’re phenomenal.

EBONY: You talk of the influence of books and people in your life. What part does travel play in shaping your attitudes and outlook on life?

MICHAEL: I think before anybody gets married, they should really travel the world if they can. It’s the most incredible education I’ve ever had. I think it’s phenomenal. I mean just to see the different cultures of people, the different faces, to talk to people and just to learn and see….When I traveled I was amazed. When we first went to Switzerland, I almost started crying. I really did.

EBONY: What touched you about that trip to bring about that emotional response?

MICHAEL: The beauty. It’s like, oh, God, it’s crying out in the sky. It’s an incredible country and it inspires me to see these things - the mountains. The pictures don’t do justice to Switzerland. Then there’s the Netherlands and France. Gosh, they’re incredible, too!

EBONY: Obviously, when you travel, you are more than a tourist, you are an observer.

MICHAEL: Well, a lot of people just stay in the cities when they travel. They should get out and see the real country. Wherever you go, man-made things are man-made, but you gotta get out and see God’s beauty.

EBONY: In your travels, what were some of the countries that impressed you most?

MICHAEL: I’m gonna raise my hand on this one. I’ll say this. I always thought that the Blacks, as far as artistry, were a talented race of people. But when I went to Africa, I was even more convinced. They did some incredible things over there. [West African countries, including Senegal]. We went to one place out in the flatlands where all these Africans sell their crafts and everything. I went to this one hut where this guy made incredible carvings….He took a piece of wood and a hatchet-like thing and started chopping and I just sat there amazed. He carved a big face…dipped it in some water…dried it off and he gave it to me and I paid for it.

EBONY: You seem impressed by African art but what about African music and dance?

MICHAEL: When we came off the plane in [Dakar, Senegal] Africa, we were greeted by a long line of African dancers. Their drums and sounds filled the air with rhythm. I was going crazy, I was screaming. I said, ‘All right!’ They got the beat and they got the rhythm….I just was so glad about the whole thing. This is it, I said. This is where I come from. The origin….

EBONY: You were obviously impressed by your musical roots, so where do you think the Africans derived their musical influence?

MICHAEL: Music started with nature. Music is nature. Birds make music. Oceans make music. Wind makes music. Any natural sound is music. And that’s where it started….You see, we’re just making a replica of nature, which is the sounds we hear outside.

EBONY: Did your travels have any influence on the way you think about races of people?

MICHAEL: The main thing that I hate most is ignorance, like the prejudice problems of America. I know it is worse in some other countries. But I wish I could borrow, like from Venezuela or Trinidad, the real love of color-blind people and bring it to America….

EBONY: You are making some observations with intense feelings. Please continue.

MICHAEL: I’m prejudiced against ignorance. That’s what I’m mainly prejudiced against. It’s only ignorance and it’s taught because it’s not genetic at all. The little children in those [countries] aren’t prejudiced. I would like for you to put this in quotes, too. I’m really not a prejudiced person at all. I believe that people should think about God more and creation….Look at the many wonders inside the human body - the different colors of organs, colors of blood - and all these different colors do a different thing in the human body. It’s the most incredible system in the world; it makes an incredible building, the human being. And if this can happen with the human body, why can’t we do it as people? And that’s how I feel. And that’s why I wish the world could do more. That’s the only thing I hate. I really do.

EBONY: What you have just said is not only compassionate but compelling. How do you communicate such feelings since you don’t make public appearances to express your views in public forums?

MICHAEL: I try to write, put it in song. Put it in dance. Put it in my art to teach the world. If politicians can’t do it, I want to do it. We have to do it. Artists, put it in paintings. Poets, put it in poems, novels. That’s what we have to do. And I think it’s so important to save the world.

EBONY: Stevie Wonder apparently shares similar feelings, judging by some of his musical messages.

MICHAEL: That’s why I love Stevie Wonder’s biggest-selling album called Songs in the Key of Life. He has a song on that album called Black Man….I just jumped up screaming when I heard that record because he’s showing the world what the Black man has done and what other races have done, and he balanced it beautifully by putting other races in there, what they have done. Then he brings out what the Black Man has done. Instead of naming it another thing, he named it Black Man. That’s what I loved about it….And that’s the best way to bring about the truth, through song. And that’s what I love about it.

EBONY: You don’t seem to have any objections to messages in music as long as the messages are positive. Your music, unlike some artists, stays clear of messages glorifying drugs. But drugs are a reality. How do you view it?

MICHAEL: In the field I’m in, there is a lot of that and it gets offered to me all the time. People even go as far as to just…stick it in your pocket and walk off. Now, if it was a good thing, they wouldn’t do that….I mean, would somebody drop something beautiful in my pocket and just walk off? But I don’t want to have anything to do with any of that. I mean, as corny as it sounds, but this is how I really believe: Natural highs are the greatest highs in the world….Who wants to take something and just sit around for the rest of the day after you take it [drugs], and don’t know who you are, what you’re doing, where you are? Take in something that’s gonna inspire you to do greater things in the world.

EBONY: Do you put God or religion in that process of a natural high?

MICHAEL: Oh, yes, God, really. I believe in the Bible and I try to follow the Bible. I know I’m an imperfect person….I’m not making myself an angel because I’m not an angel and I’m not a devil either. I try to be the best I can and I try to do what I think is right. It’s that simple. And I do believe in God.

EBONY: Do prayers or praying play a role in your life?

MICHAEL: I pray every night. I don’t just pray at night. I pray at different times during the day. When I see something beautiful, whenever I see beautiful scenery - like when I’m flying or something -- I say, oh, God, that’s beautiful. And I always say little prayers like that all through the day. I love beauty.

EBONY: Speaking of beauty, you have been associated in a public way with many beautiful people, including your beautiful sisters, LaToya, Rebbie, and Janet, but also Diana Ross, Tatum O’Neal, and Brooke Shields. You have been linked romantically with the latter two. Someone said you and Tatum had a lot in common: the parents of both of you are protective - she’s a daddy’s [Ryan O’Neal] girl and you’re a momma’s [Katherine Jackson] boy.

MICHAEL: I want all those people who read JET and EBONY to just know that we’re mainly good friends. That’s the main thing. I think for guys, girls make the best friends. And for girls, guys make the best friends.

EBONY: What is your relationship with Brooke? When did you meet and has that relationship developed?

MICHAEL: We met at the Academy Awards. She asked me to dance because I was not going to ask her. You know, I’m really shy and embarrassed. So she says, ‘I got to dance with you tonight.’ I said, great. So we got together on the dance floor and danced. They were playing that old-fashioned Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey music, which wasn’t much of a groove. First, you’ve got all these bald-headed old people on the floor slow dancing, the Lawrence Welk sound. We really couldn’t get into it so we got to talking and got to know each other. We switched numbers and had phone conversations back and forth and we became real good friends.

EBONY: Does this mean that Brooke has replaced Tatum as a special friend?

MICHAEL: Tatum calls me all the time and I hope she reads this interview because I’m sorry I couldn’t get all of her calls. But she’s still a wonderful friend of mine.

EBONY: Both Tatum and Brooke are fine actresses. You did all right in The Wiz. What’s in the future for you now in films?

MICHAEL: I’m very excited about a lot of things that I want to do and that I’m going to do in films and things. I really can’t wait….Since The Wiz, incredible offers have come to me, things that are still in the making.

EBONY: You once said that you will be careful about choosing your next role so that you won’t be typecast anymore. You said that since The Wiz, some people still call you Scarecrow because of that character role you played.

MICHAEL: Whatever role you play, people link it with your personality. But it’s acting. You’re portraying another person….I wish it wasn’t called acting because I don’t really like actors. I mean, the word acting.

EBONY: Please elaborate.

MICHAEL: I don’t think acting should be acting. Acting, if you’re acting, you’re imitating realism. You should create realism. It should be called believing. You see, I always was against it when I thought about acting. I don’t want to see an actor. I want so see a believer. I don’t want to see anybody that’s gonna imitate the truths. It’s not real then. I want to see a person that’s gonna believe the truth….That’s when you move an audience.

EBONY: What kind of questions do you wish you would be asked but nobody ever asks you?

MICHAEL: That’s a good question. Probably about children or writing, or what I just talked about….You don’t make a better world of minds and things when people put the wrong things in their lyrics and give the wrong views on stage and everything. It’s just so important and I think this can lead so many people astray, because an artist can be built up so big in his career that this could change the whole world by what he does and thinks. They’ll listen to him before the President or any of these big politicians. You have to be careful. They could change these peoples’ way of life by what they say and do. That’s why it’s important to give off love vibes and that’s why I love what I do….When Marvin Gaye put out the album, What’s Going On, so many Blacks as well as Whites - but mainly Blacks-were educated. ‘Wake up. What’s going on? Wake up.’ I mean the ones that don’t watch the news, don’t read the papers to really dig in the depths of humanism. What’s going on? Wake up.

EBONY: There have been some campaigns against so-called dirty lyrics songs by some popular musical groups. Do you have any views about such groups and their lyrics?

MICHAEL: Sometimes they go too far. They don’t leave anything for the imagination. If I just walked out on stage naked, there’s no imagination. I’m not letting them imagine what I look like without the clothes. But you see, they overdo it….We got to leave them something to imagine. People go too far at times. I think it’s important to set the right example because there are so many kids who look up to us.

As the most productive year of his entertainment career comes to a close and his talents helped him gross about $100 million, Michael is not content to rest on his laurels or his loot. He faces a future guided by two observations, both of which he made: “I’m interested in making a path instead of following a trail and that’s what I want to do in life - in everything I do,” Michael told this writer in an interview on July 13, 1979.

He made the other observation in his role as Scarecrow in The Wiz, a movie in which he co-starred with one of his dearest friends - Diana Ross.

In a scene near the end of the film, Michael spoke these words through his Scarecrow character: “Success, fame, fortune - they are all illusions. All there is that is real is the friendship that two can share.”

Those are the thoughts of the Michael Jackson nobody knows. Interview with Ebony Magazine (1992)

The following interview is taken by the Ebony/Jet Magazine in Africa, May 1992:

EBONY/JET Do you have any special feeling about this return to the con-tinent of Africa?

JACKSON: For me, it's like the "dawn of civilization." It's the first place where society existed. It's seen a lot of love. I guess there's that connection because it is the root of all rhythm. Everything. It's home.

EBONY/JET: You visited Africa in 1974. Can you compare and contrast the two visits?

JACKSON: I'm more aware of things this time: the people and how they live and their government. But for me, I'm more aware of the rhythms and the music and the people. That's what I'm really noticing more than any thing. The rhythms are incredible. You can tell especially the way the children move. Even the little babies, when they hear the drums, they start to move. The rhythm, the way it affects their soul and they start to move. The same thing that Blacks have in America. . .

EBONY/JET: How does it feel to be a real king?

JACKSON: I never try to think hard about it because I don't want it to go to my head. But, it's a great honor....

EBONY/JET: Speaking of music and rhythm, how did you put together the gospel songs on your last album?

JACKSON: I wrote "Will You Be There?" at my house, "Neverland" in California.... I didn't think about it hard. That's why it's hard to take credit for the songs that I write, because I just always feel that it's done from above. I feel fortunate for being that instrument through which music flows. I'm just the source through which it comes. I can't take credit for it because it's God's work. He's just using me as the messenger....

EBONY/JET: What was the concept for the Dangerous album?

JACKSON: I wanted to do an album that was like Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite. So that in a thousand years from now, people would still be listening to it. Something that would live forever. I would like to see children and teenagers and parents and all races all over the world, hundreds and hundreds of years from now, still pulling out songs from that album and dissecting it. I want it to live.

EBONY/JET: I notice on this trip that you made a special effort to visit children.

JACKSON: I love children, as you can see. And babies.

EBONY/JET: And animals.

JACKSON: Well, there's a certain sense that animals and children have that gives me a certain creative juice, a certain force that later on in adulthood is kind of lost because of the conditioning that happens in the world. A great poet said once. "When I see children, I see that God has not yet given up on man." An Indian poet from India said that, and his name is Tagore. The innocence of children represents to me the source of infinite creativity. That is the potential of every human being. But by the time you are an adult, you're conditioned; you're so conditioned by the things about you and it goes. Love. Children are loving, they don't gossip, they don't complain, they're just open-hearted. They're ready for you. They don't judge. They don't see things by way of color. They're very child-like. That's the problem with adults they lose that child-like quality. And that's the level of inspiration that's so needed and is so important for creating and writing songs and for a sculptor, a poet or a novelist. It's that same kind of innocence, that same level of consciousness, that you create from. And kids have it. I feel it right away from animals and children and nature. Of course. And when I'm on stage. I can't perform if I don't have that kind of ping pony with the crowd. You know the kind of cause and effect action, reaction. Because I play off of them. They're really feeding me and I'm just acting from their energy.

EBONY/JET: Where is all this heading?

JACKSON: I really believe that God chooses people to do certain things, the way Michelangelo or Leonardo da Vinci or Mozart or Muhammad Ali or Martin Luther King is chosen. And that is their mission to do that thing. And I think that I haven't scratched the surface yet of what my real purpose is for being here. I'm committed to my art. I believe that all art has as its ultimate goal the union between the material and the spiritual, the human and the divine. And I believe that that is the very reason for the exis-tence of art and what I do. And I feel fortunate in being that instrument through which music flows.... Deep inside I feel that this world we live in is really a big, huge, monumental symphonic orchestra. I believe that in its primordial form all of creation is sound and that it's not just random sound, that it's music. You've heard the expression, mu-sic of the spheres? Well, that's a very literal phrase. In the Gospels, we read, "And the Lord God made man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man be-came a living soul." That breath of life to me is the music of life and it permeates every fiber of creation. In one of the pieces of the Dangerous album, I say: "Life songs of ages, throbbing in my blood, have danced the rhythm of the tide and flood." This is a very literal statement, because the same new miracle intervals and biological rhythms that sound out the architecture of my DNA also governs the movement of the stars. The same music governs the rhythm of the seasons, the pulse of our heartbeats, the migration of birds, the ebb and flow of ocean tides, the cycles of growth, evolution and dissolution. It's music, it's rhythm. And my goal in life is to give to the world what I was lucky to receive: the ecstasy of divine union through my music and my dance. It's like, my purpose, it's what I'm here for.

EBONY/JET: What about politics?

JACKSON: I never get into politics. But I think music soothes the savage beast. If you put cells under a microscope and you put music on, you'll see them move and start to dance. It affects the soul... I hear music in everything. [Pauses] You know, that's the most I've said in eight years. You know I don't give interviews. That because I know you, and I trust you. You're the only person I trust to give interviews to. Interview with Oprah Winfrey (1993)

The Interview

Oprah: Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Jackson.

[Michael Jackson enters the living room of his home. They shake hands and Michael kisses Oprah on the cheek.]

Oprah: How nervous are you?

Michael: How what?

Oprah: How nervous are you right now?

Michael: I'm not nervous at all, actually.

Oprah: You really aren't?

Michael: No, I never get nervous.

Oprah: Not even for your first interview and it's live around the world? I thought you'd be a little nervous but you're not and that's great because if you're not nervous I won't be nervous. I just wanted to let the world know that when we agreed to do this interview you said you would be willing to talk to me about everything.

Michael: That's true.

Oprah: Very true. I was watching you in the background there watching you in the video of the early years. Did that bring back memories for you?

Michael: It made me giggle because I haven't seen that footage in a long time. Did it bring back memories? Yes, me and my brothers who I love dearly and it's just a wonderful moment for me.

Oprah: I saw you laugh when you saw yourself singing Baby, Baby, Baby.

Michael: Yeah, I think James Brown is a genius you know when he's with the Famous Flames, unbelievable. I used to watch him on television and I used to get angry at the cameraman because whenever he would really start to dance they would be on a close-up so I couldn't see his feet. I'd shout, "show him show him.", so I could watch and learn.

Oprah: So he was a big mentor for you?

Michael: Phenomenal, phenomenal.

Oprah: Who else was?

Michael: Jackie Wilson who I adore as an entertainer, and of course music, Motown. The Bee Gees who are brilliant, I just love great music.

Oprah: When I look at those tapes of you, and heaven knows, putting this together I think I've seen every piece of video ever done of you, and watching those tapes when, especially in the younger years, you seem to really come alive on stage. Were you as happy off stage as you appear to be on stage?

Michael: Well, on stage for me was home. I was most comfortable on stage but once I got off stage, I was like, very sad.

Oprah: Really?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: And sad from the beginning, sad since it first started, sad?

Michael: Lonely, sad, having to face popularity and all that. There were times when I had great times with my brother, pillow fights and things, but I was, used to always cry from loneliness.

Oprah: Beginning at what age?

Michael: Oh, very little, eight, nine.

Oprah: When you all first became famous?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: So it wasn't what it appeared to be to the rest of the world, all of us. I remember I was a little black child, wanted to marry Jackie Jackson, your brother, so I mean to all of us we thought this was the most wonderful thing in the world, who wouldn't have wanted that life?

Michael: It was wonderful; there is a lot of wonderment in being famous. I mean you travel the world, you meet people, you go places, and it’s great. But then there's the other side, which I'm not complaining about. There is lots of rehearsal and you have to put in a lot of your time, give of yourself a lot. Oprah: Do you feel... I talked with Susan de Passe the other day, and Susan de Passe worked with you at Motown and really groomed you all and found the outfits for the Ed Sullivan Show. We talked about whether or not it was really lost, was it?

Michael : Well, especially now I come to realize - and then - I would do my schooling which was three hours with a tutor and right after that I would go to the recording studio and record, and I'd record for hours and hours until it's time to go to sleep. And I remember going to the record studio there was a park across the street and I'd see all the children playing and I would cry because it would make me sad that I would have to work instead.

Oprah: I want to go to this and show some pictures of you as a little boy.

Michael: OK.

Oprah: Susan said it was a heavy price. I want to know how big of a price it was, losing your childhood or having this kind of life?

Michael: Well, you don't get to do things that other children get to do, you know, having friends and slumber parties and buddies. There was none of that for me. I didn't have any friends when I was little. My brothers were my friends.

Oprah: Was there ever a place where - because you know children - because I remember talking to myself and playing with my dolls - was there.. and I think every child needs a place to escape into, a child's world, a child's imagination, was there ever a time you could do that?

Michael: No. And that is why I think now because I didn't have it then, I compensate for that. People wonder why I always have children around, because I find the thing that I never had through them, you know Disneyland, amusement parks, arcade games. I adore all that stuff because when I was little it was always work, work, work from one concert to the next, if it wasn't a concert it was the recording studio, if it wasn't that it was TV shows or interviews or picture sessions. There was always something to do.

Oprah: Did you feel, Smokey Robinson said this about you, and so have many other people, that you were like an old soul in a little body.

Michael: I remember hearing that all the time when I was little. They used to call me a 45-years-old midget wherever I went, I just used to hear that and wherever I went .. just like when some people when you were little and you started to sing did you know you were that good? And I say I never thought about it, I just did it and it came out. I never thought about it really.

Oprah: So here you were, Michael Jackson, you all had hits, you all had so many hits, four hits in a row, and you were crying because you couldn't be like other kids.

Michael: Well, I loved show business and I still love show business, but then there are times you want to play and have some fun and that part did make me sad. I remember one time we were getting ready to go to South America and everything was packed up and in the car ready to go and I hid and I was crying because I really did not want to go. I wanted to play. I did not want to go.

Oprah: Were your brothers jealous of you when you started getting all the attention?

Michael: Not that I know of, no.

Oprah: You never felt a sense of jealousy?

Michael: Oh, let me think - no. No, I think they were always happy for me that I could do certain things, but I've never felt jealousy among them.

Oprah: Do you think they are jealous of you now?

Michael: I wouldn't think so. I don't think so, no.

Oprah: No. What's your relationship like with your family? Are you all close still?

Michael: I love my family very much. I wish I could see them a little more often than I do. But we understand because we're a show business family and we all work. We do have family day when we all get together, we pick a person's house, it might be Jermaine's house or Marlon's house or Tito's house and everyone will come together in fellowship and love each other and talk and catch up on who's doing what and....

Oprah: You weren't all upset about LaToya and LaToya's book and the things that LaToya has said about the family?

Michael: Well, I haven't read LaToya's book. I just know how to love my sister dearly, I love LaToya and I always will and I always see her as the happy, loving LaToya that I remember growing up with. So I couldn't completely answer on that.

Oprah: Do you feel that some of the things that she's been saying are true?

Michael: I couldn't answer Oprah, honestly I haven't read the book. That's the honest truth.

Oprah: Well, let's go back to when you were growing up and feeling all of this, well, I guess it's a sense of anguish, I guess, so there was no one for you to play with other than your brother's, you never had slumber parties?

Michael: Never.

Oprah: So I'm wondering for you, being this cute little boy who everybody adored and everybody who comes up to you they're pulling your cheeks and how cute, how adolescence going through that duck stage where everything's awkward, and I'm wondering when you started to go through adolescence having been this child superstar, was that a particularly difficult time for you? Michael: Very. Very, very difficult, yes. Because I think every child star suffers through this period because you're not the cute and charming child that you were. You start to grow, and they want to keep you little forever.

Oprah: Who are they?

Michael: The public. And um, nature takes its course.

Oprah: It does?

Michael: Yes, and I had pimples so badly it used to make me so shy, I used not to look at myself, I'd hide my face in the dark, I wouldn't want to look in the mirror and my father teased me and I just hated it and I cried every day.

Oprah: Your father teased you about your pimples?

Michael: Yes and tell me I'm ugly.

Oprah: Your father would say that?

Michael: Yes he would. Sorry Joseph.

Oprah: What's your relationship like with him?

Michael: I love my father but I don't know him.

Oprah: Are you angry with him for doing that? I think that's pretty cruel actually.

Michael: Am I angry with him?

Oprah: Because adolescence is hard enough without a parent telling you that you're ugly.

Michael: Am I angry with him? Sometimes I do get angry. I don't know him the way I'd like to know him. My mother's wonderful. To me she's perfection. I just wish I could understand my father.

Oprah: And so let's talk about those teen years. Is that when you started to go inside yourself? Because obviously you haven't spoken to the world for 14 years. So you went inside, you became a recluse. Was it to protect yourself?

Michael: I felt there wasn't anything important for me to say and those were very sad, sad years for me.

Oprah: Why so sad? Because on stage you were performing, you were getting your Grammies. Why so sad?

Michael: Oh, there's a lot of sadness about my past and adolescence, about my father and all of those things. Oprah: So he would tease you, make fun of you.

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: Would he ... did he ever beat you?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: And why would he beat you?

Michael: He saw me, he wanted me ... I guess I don't know if I was his golden child or whatever it was, some may call it a strict disciplinarian or whatever, but he was very strict, very hard, very stern. Just a look would scare you, you know.

Oprah: And were you scared of him?

Michael: Very. Like there's been times when he'd come to see me, I'd get sick, I'd start to regurgitate.

Oprah: As a child or as an adult?

Michael: Both. He's never heard me say this. I'm sorry, please don't be mad at me.

Oprah: Well, I mean, I suppose everybody has to take responsibility for what they've done in life. And your father is one of those people who also have to take responsibility.

Michael: But I do love him.

Oprah: Yes, I understand this.

Michael: And I am forgiving.

Oprah: But can you really forgive?

Michael: I do forgive. There's so much garbage and so much trash that's written about me it is so untrue, they're complete lies, and those are some of the things I wanted to talk about. The press has made up so much ... God ... awful, horrifying stories it has made me realize the more often you hear a lie, I mean, you begin to believe it.

Oprah: Um, we talked about all of the rumors just before we went to the break and there are so many. First of all, I have been in this house getting prepared for this and I've been all over the house upstairs when you weren't looking, looking for that oxygen chamber and I cannot find an oxygen chamber anywhere in the house.

Michael: That, that story is so crazy, I mean it's one of those tabloid things, it's completely made up.

Oprah: Okay, but you are in something there, there's a picture of you, where did that come from? How did it get started? Michael: That's ... I did a commercial for Pepsi and I was burned very badly and we settled for one million dollars and I gave all the money ... like we built this place called the Michael Jackson Burn Center and that's a piece of technology used for burn victims, right, so I'm looking at the piece of technology and decide to just go inside it and just to hammer around, somebody takes the picture, when they process the picture the person who processes the picture says, "Oh, Michael Jackson," he made a copy and these pictures went all over the world with this lie attached to it. It's a complete lie, why do people buy these papers. It's not the truth and I'm here to say. You know, do not judge a person, do not pass judgment, unless you have talked to them one on one, I don't care what the story is, do not judge them because it's a lie.

Oprah: You're right, that story, it was just like it had legs.

Michael: It's crazy! Why would I want to sleep in a chamber? [Laughing]

Oprah: Well, the rumor was that you were sleeping in the chamber because you didn't want to grow old.

Michael: That's stupid. That's stupid. It's completely made up and I'm embarrassed. I'm willing to forgive the press, or forgive anybody, I was taught to love and forgive, which I do have in my heart, but please don't believe these crazy, horrifying things.

Oprah: Did you buy the Elephant man's bones, were you trying to get them for ...

Michael: No that's another stupid story. I love the story of the Elephant Man, he reminds me of me a lot and I could relate to it, it made me cry because I saw myself in the story, but no I never asked for the ... where am I going to put some bones?

Oprah: I don't know.

Michael: And why would I want some bones?

Oprah: I don't know. So where did that come from?

Michael: Someone makes it up and everybody believes it. If you hear a lie often enough, you believe it.

Oprah: Yes and people make money selling tabloids.

Michael: Yes

Oprah: All right. Just recently, there was a story and I know one of your attorneys held a news conference, there was a story about you wanting a little white child to play you in a Pepsi commercial.

Michael: That is so stupid. That is the most ridiculous, horrifying story I've ever heard. It's crazy. Why, number one, it's my face as a child in the commercial, me when I was little, why would I want a white child to play me? I'm a black American, I am proud to be a black American, I am proud of my race. I am proud of who I am. I have a lot of pride and dignity. That's like you wanting an oriental person to play you as a child. Does that make sense?

Oprah: No.

Michael: So, please people, stop believing these horrifying stories.

Oprah: Okay, then let's go to the thing that is most discussed about you, that is the color of your skin is most obviously different than when you were younger, and so I think it has caused a great deal of speculation and controversy as to what you have done or are doing, are you bleaching your skin and is your skin lighter because you don't like being black?

Michael: Number one, as I know of, there is no such thing as skin bleaching, I have never seen it, I don't know what it is.

Oprah: Well they used to have those products, I remember growing up always hearing always use bleach and glow, but you have to have about 300,000 gallons.

Michael: Okay, but number one, this is the situation. I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin, it's something that I cannot help. Okay. But when people make up stories that I don't want to be who I am it hurts me.

Oprah: So it is...

Michael: It's a problem for me that I can't control, but what about all the millions of people who sits out in the sun, to become darker, to become other than what they are, no one says nothing about that.

Oprah: So when did this start, when did your ... when did the color of your skin start to change?

Michael: Oh boy, I don't ... sometime after Thriller, around Off the Wall, Thriller, around sometime then.

Oprah: But what did you think?

Michael: It's in my family, my father said it's on his side. I can't control it, I don't understand, I mean, it makes me very sad. I don't want to go into my medical history because that is private, but that's the situation here.

Oprah: So okay, I just want to get this straight, you are not taking anything to change the color of your skin ...

Michael: Oh, God no, we tried to control it and using make-up evens it out because it makes blotches on my skin, I have to even out my skin. But you know what's funny, why is that so important? That's not important to me. I'm a great fan of art, I love Michelangelo, if I had the chance to talk to him or read about him I would want to know what inspired him to become who he is, the anatomy of his craftsmanship, not about who he went out with last night ... what' wrong with ... I mean that's what is important to me.

Oprah: How much plastic surgery have you had?

Michael: Very, very little. I mean you can count on my two fingers, I mean let's say this, if you want to know about those things, all the nosey people in the world, read my book Moonwalk, it's in my book. You know, let's put it this way, if all the people in Hollywood who have had plastic surgery, if they went on vacation, there wouldn't be a person left in town.

Oprah: Mmm, I think you might be right.

Michael: I think I am right. It would be empty.

Oprah: Did you start having plastic surgery because of those teen years because of not liking the way you looked?

Michael: No, not really. It was only two things. Really, get my book, it's no big deal.

Oprah: You don't want to tell me what it is? You had your nose done, obviously.

Michael: Yeah, but so did a lot of people that I know.

Oprah: And so, when you hear all these things about you, and there have been more...

Michael: I've never had my cheekbones done, never had my eyes done, never had my lips done and all this stuff. They go too far, but this is stuff that happens every day with other people.

Oprah: Are you pleased now with the way you look?

Michael: I'm never pleased with anything, I'm a perfectionist, it's part of who I am.

Oprah: And so when you look in the mirror now and so the image that looks back at you are there days when you say I kinda like this or I like the way my hair ...

Michael: No. I'm never pleased with myself. No, I try not to look in the mirror.

Oprah: I have to ask you this, so many mothers in my audience have said to please ask you this question. Why do you always grab your crotch?

Michael: [Giggle] Why do I grab my crotch?

Oprah: You've got a thing with your crotch going on there.

Michael: I think it happens subliminally. When you're dancing, you know you are just interpreting the music and the sounds and the accompaniment if there's a driving base, if there's a cello, if there's a string, you become the emotion of what that sound is, so if I'm doing a movement and I go bam and I grab myself it's... it's the music that compels me to do it, it's not saying that I'm dying to grab down there and it's not in a great place you don't think about it, it just happens, sometimes I'll look back at the footage and I go ... and I go did I do that? So I'm a slave to the rhythm, yeah, okay.

After a commercial break, some of Michael's major achievements are shown:

# 1 Album of All Time

# 2 Album of All Time

Biggest Concert in History

More Music Awards Than Any Other Artist

The 80's Most # 1 Hits

Biggest Endorsements Deal Ever - 15,000,000 dollars

Billion Dollar Entertainment Contract

Entertainer of the Decade

Oprah: When you have broken all those records, when you have the number one album ever sold, when you've broken every record there is to break, when you become an icon of an industry, is there always the pressure to do something bigger and something better.

Michael: Oh gee, that is something, um, it makes it harder each time to follow up. You try to be as original as you can be without thinking about statistics, just you go from the soul and from the heart.

Oprah: And so when you think of that what do you do, you go, you meditate, you think, well I will now do the Super bowl.

Michael: No, I just create out of my heart, really.

Oprah: Liz Taylor said you were king of pop, rock and soul. Where did this whole notion that you proclaimed yourself king of pop come from?

Michael: Well, I didn't proclaim myself to be anything. I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am, king of pop was first said by Elizabeth Taylor on one of the award shows.

Oprah: And that's where this all started?

Michael: Yes, and the fans ... all the stadiums that we played at they'd bring banners saying king of pop and jackets that say king of pop and T-shirts that say king of pop and they chanted outside my hotel, so it just became something that just happened all over the world. Oprah: Do you go out, do you date?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: Who do you date?

Michael: Well, right now it's Brooke Shields. Well, we try not to be everywhere, go everywhere, it's mostly at home, she'll come over, I'll go to her house, because I don't like going out in public.

Oprah: Have you ever been in love?

Michael: Yeah.

Oprah: With Brooke Shields?

Michael: Yes, and another girl.

Oprah: And another girl? Let me ask you this, and it's embarrassing for me to ask you this, but I'm gonna ask you anyway, are you a virgin?

Michael: Uhhhhh, how could you ask that question?

Oprah: I just want to know.

Michael: I'm a gentleman.

Oprah: You're a gentleman?

Michael: I'm a gentleman.

Oprah: I would interpret that to mean that you believe that a lady is a lady and therefore..

Michael: That's something that's private, I mean, it shouldn't be spoken about openly...... You can call me old fashioned if you want, but, you know I mean that's very personal.

Oprah: So, you're not going to answer it?

Michael: I'm embarrassed.

Oprah: Well, we would like to know whether or not there is a possibility that you are going to marry one day and have children?

Michael: I would feel my life is incomplete if I do not 'cause I adore the family life, I adore children and I adore that whole thing. And I would love to, that's one of my dreams, but I couldn't right now because I'm married, I'm married to my music and there has to be that closeness in order to do the kind of work that I want to do and ... Oprah: What kind of woman makes you - in the video we're going to see later, we premier the world video, there's a line where you talk about being quenched, so what kind of person does that for you?

Michael: [Sings] Quench my desire ... Well Brooke, I've always liked her and when I was little I used to stay with Diana Ross, me and my brother stayed with her for years and I never said, but I always had a crush on her.

Oprah: You did?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: I heard too, this was another one of those rumors that you had proposed to Elizabeth Taylor at some point.

Michael: Elizabeth Taylor is gorgeous, beautiful, and she still is today, I'm crazy about her.

Oprah: Yeah, but did you propose to her?

Michael: I would like to have.

Oprah: Well, Elizabeth Taylor is here. Liz? Can we bring Liz out now? Liz had said she wanted to be here to hold your hand through this. You don't look like you need your hand held. Elizabeth Taylor!

Michael: Hi, Elizabeth.

Oprah: Hi.

Elizabeth: Hi.

Oprah: Have a seat.

Elizabeth: Thank you.

Oprah: Did Michael ever propose to you?

Elizabeth: No! And I never proposed to him.

Oprah: Never did! What do you think is most misunderstood about Michael Jackson?

Elizabeth: All the things you mentioned. He is the least weird man I have ever known. He is highly intelligent, true, intuitive, understanding, sympathetic, generous almost to a fault, of himself.

Oprah: Uh-huh. Elizabeth: Uh, and he just, if, if he has any eccentricities, it's that he is like larger than life and some people just cannot accept that or face it or understand it. His talent on stage, why I call him the King of pop, rock, soul, music, entertainment, whatever,

Oprah: Yes.

Elizabeth: there's nobody that can come near him. Nobody can dance like that, write the lyrics like that, the music, uh, cause the kind of excitement that he does.

Oprah: And why do you think you all are such good friends? What has brought about this kind of bond? Because people try to make this weird.

Elizabeth: Well, it's not. I mean, our childhoods are very similar, and we have that from the very beginning in common. Um, I was a child star at nine, had an abusive father, um, and that kind of brought us close together in the very beginning.

Oprah: And what is it, I am going to ask Michael this question later on, but, what is it you most want the world to know about him?

Elizabeth: What a wonderful, giving, caring, generous man he is and how good he is.

Oprah: And he's funny, too.

Elizabeth: Oh, he's wildly funny.

Oprah: He can crack some jokes, I tell you.

Elizabeth: Yes, but he is a good man.

Oprah: When we come back - Thank you for joining us too -

Elizabeth: That's fine.

Oprah: ...cause I know you did not want to be on camera at first, but thank you. Coming up next, Michael is going to give us not only a tour of his incredible amusement park and movie theater, but also a very special dance performance. For all of you who say he is faking the Moonwalk with mirrors, we've got some proof coming up in a minute. [Cut to dance clips for intermission] Announcer: Live from Santa Inez, California. Michael Jackson talks to Oprah.

Oprah: Now this is what's shocking to me, that you even drive. What we're doing, everybody, is that we are coming from Michael's house down to this amazing amusement park, which is, oh, about several hundred yards from the house. And this is, it's incredible.

Michael: Thank you.

Oprah: And I want to know whether or not you did this for yourself or did you do it for all the children that you entertain here? Michael: For myself and the children. Every three weeks we - terminally ill children that come to - uh-

Oprah: To the house?

Michael: Yes, yes.

Oprah: Make a wish foundation, Dream Street, Starlight, yes?

Michael: Every three weeks - and these are sick children, children with cancer. And I entertain them.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: And they come here to enjoy themselves.

Oprah: This is unbelievable. What I have to say is, these are, as I was talking to some kids that were here, these are not just grandma rides here. These are some major rides.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: I mean the Sea Dragon, the Ferris Wheel, and there's that Zipper over there.

Michael: The Wipeout.

Oprah: Yeah, the Wipeout, and there are Bumper cars here, it's really-

Michael: Thank you. Well, it brings out the child that lives in every- body. I love rides and things like that and I share it with the children.

Oprah: Were you able to do that when you were a kid?

Michael: Not really. Sometimes, sometimes, but not often enough.

Oprah: But now you can anytime.

Michael: Every day. It's right in my back yard.

Oprah: How often do you actually come out here and do this?

Michael: Whenever I'm here I come out and I go on the rides.

Oprah: Well, is this a part of you, what we were talking about earlier, the pain of growing up and not being able to experience all the things that kids normally experience and so now you are fulfilling all those fantasies.

Michael: To compensate, yes.

Oprah: Really. Michael: Yes, it is very true.

Oprah: Do you think you can ever really recapture it though? Does it feel the same? I mean, I don't know.

Michael: [laughs] It's more fun.

Oprah: Really?

Michael: I wouldn't change the past if I could. I'm enjoying myself.

Oprah: And here we are inside the theater. I had one too many sugar babies at the candy counter.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: But the candy is here for all the kids. Pinocchio is here, ET is here. Did you - what's fascinating to me about you is that obviously you have this childlike aura about you and I see children with you and they play with you like you are one of them. But, a child did not do this.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: A child did not put this together. This is really magnificent.

Michael: Well, thank you. I - I love to do things for children and I try to imitate Jesus - and I am not saying I am Jesus, I'm not saying that.

Oprah: Yes, we're clear on that.

Michael: Right, I'm trying to imitate Jesus in the fact that he said to be like children, to love children, to be as pure as children, and to make yourself as innocent and to see the world through eyes of wonderment and the whole magical quality of it all and I love that. And we'll have like a hundred bald headed children, they all have cancer, and they're all running around.

Oprah: Um-huh.

Michael: And they are enjoying themselves and it makes me cry happy tears that I was able to do this for them, you know.

Oprah: Um-huh.

Michael: Makes me so pleased inside.

Oprah: Well, when I came here to, um, about a month ago to shoot a commercial with you for promoting tonight's event, one of the things that really impressed me the most, I hope you guys are getting shots of this. I don't know how you are, if all the cameras are on us, but, oh, we got other cameras - is that there are, built inside the walls here- beds-beds for some of those sick children who come. And what I realized when I saw this is that you have to be a person who really cares about children to build it into your architecture.

Michael: Yes, yes. We have children that come who are - who intravenously - they are very sick, bedridden-

Oprah: They can't sit up.

Michael: Right. They can't sit up and these beds, they are hospital beds, you push a button, you go up or you go down and they are able to watch. We have a magic show, we show the current films, there's cartoons, anything you know, anything so they can escape to that world of magic that they don't have a chance to experience, the world I was deprived of when I was little.

Oprah: Now let me ask you this. You know I believe everything happens in people's lives for a reason. Do you think that had you not missed a lot of, uh, the life and fun and fantasy of childhood that you would be so in touch with children today. Would you relate to them as you do?

Michael: I probably would, but not as much. That's why I wouldn't change a thing-

Oprah: Really?

Michael: Because I am happy with the way things are and my caring for young people and everything.

Oprah: Are you really happy now, because you seemed so sad for a long time.

Michael: [laughs] I was sad for years and years and years. But I'm happy, I'm getting there. Yes, I'm very happy.

Oprah: And what has made you happier.

Michael: Being able to give back, you know, and to help other people.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: Heal the World Foundation which I've formed which helps children in healing in the world. We're doing Heal L. A., which is uh, we have three primary goals in mind: Immunization of children, mentoring - a big sister, big brother program, and education in drug abuse. And Jimmy Carter has teamed up with us to do Heal Atlanta and we're going to go from state to state healing - you know we've gone to Sarajevo, we've done lots of places.

Oprah: I know, I know, we have photographs of you from all over the world where you are with all these children. One of the things I was saying before we went to the last break, before the alarm went off in the house and all that-

Michael: Yeah - Oprah: is that, uh, we were talking about the rumors. One of the strangest ones I heard was that when you're Moonwalking, you're faking it, that you have some mirrors in your socks someplace.

Michael: Oh, boy!

Oprah: And it's not really real.

Michael: No, that's not true.

Oprah: How did you, first of all, you know we've spent so much time trying to dispel the rumors, trying to get the truth out that I haven't had a really opportunity to talk to you about how you conceive your music, how you conceive the dance. Where did the Moonwalk come from?

Michael: Well, the Moonwalk came from these beautiful children, the black kids who live in the ghettos, you know, the inner cities, who are brilliant, that just have that natural talent for dancing any of these new - the running man - any of these dances. They come up with these dances, all I did was enhance the dance.

Oprah: O.K. I want to see you dance.

Michael: Oh, God, no, no.

Oprah: I want to see you dance. I want to see you dance, live.

Michael: No, no. I can show you a step or two, but, I'm a little rusty right now.

Oprah: A little rusty?!

[Michael goes on stage and dances to Dangerous.]

Michael: That's the Moonwalk - wait, you need to catch it from the - sideways.

Oprah: You gotta turn sideways?

Michael: Are you from the front?

Oprah: Yeah, we got ya!

Michael: Catch it from the sideways.

Oprah: O.K. Just show me slow motion. Could you show me slow motion?

Michael: O.K., wait, it's like, it's pushing and then there's like a popping type of thing.

[Michael stops dancing and comes down from stage.]

Michael: I'm sorry. Oprah: [applauding] Well, I saw it live, I saw it live, I saw it live. And so you took it from the kids who were doing it.

Michael: Yeah, because, um, I think they are the real dancers.

Oprah: Yeah! And when you are, for instance, when we were here before, when we were here before to shoot that commercial, you were--

Michael: You were supposed to do this with me! [laughing]

Oprah: I don't know how to do this!

Michael: [laughing]

Oprah: You know I don't know how to do this!

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: You know what? I mean all the things that were printed in the tabloids, the only thing that's ever been true was when they said I couldn't dance. Now that's the truth!

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: When we were here the last time shooting the commercial, you were like in between shots running off and conceiving the dance, choreographing the dance, you were up all night dancing.

Michael: For the Super Bowl.

Oprah: Yes, yes.

Michael: Yes, well, I'm never satisfied. Even when I see something that I've done and people say oh it was so phenomenal - when I did Motown 25 and I did the Moonwalk for the first time, I was backstage crying afterwards.

Oprah: Why?

Michael: Because I was unhappy.

Oprah: You cried after Motown 25??

Michael: After Motown 25, yes. But, then as I was walking to the car there was this little boy, he was like 12, was a little Jewish kid, and he said, "Oh, you were amazing. Who taught you to ever dance like that?". And for the first time, I felt I did a good job, because I know children don't lie and I just felt so good about it then.

Oprah: You wanted to, you felt so good, you probably wanted to say- [imitating Michael] HEH-HEH! Michael: [laughs] Heh-heh!

Oprah: I want you to sing something acapella for me, if you can.

Michael: Oh, no! What could I sing?

Oprah: Who is it, you know do that whole little beat thing, since we're here in the theater.

Michael: Um, oh, boy, what could I sing? Who Is It?

Oprah: Where did that Heh-heh thing come from? Heh-heh.

Michael: Heh-heh! [starts the beat and makes instrument sounds to 'Who Is It?'] [sings] I gave my money, I gave my time, I gave her everything in life one heart could find. It doesn't seem to matter and it doesn't seem right, but the will has brought no fortune, still I cry alone at night. Don't you judge of my composure cause I'm bothered every day, and she didn't leave a letter, she just up and ran away.

Oprah: OOOWWWW! Fabulous!

Michael: I mean, you wanted me to do it! I get embarrassed. I'm sorry. I get embarrassed.

Oprah: I like it very much. Thank you very much for that. We're going to come right back with more of Michael Jackson live - That was GREAT! [hugs Michael]

[Cut to clips for intermission]

Oprah: One of the reasons we wanted to look at that piece when we went to break there was because music videos used to be you, used to just be people singing their song until you came along and changed music videos. Did you know when you first conceived your first one that's what you were doing? Michael : Yeah. The idea was to make something that was a story so it had a beginning, middle and an ending.

Oprah: Uh-huh. Michael : So it felt like a mini movie, that's what I wanted to do. And that is what we did with 'Beat It' and 'Thriller' and 'Smooth Criminal' and all those type of things.

Oprah: So when you start to look at a piece of work or look at a piece of music, are you already thinking about how you are going to -- Michael : Sometimes, yes, that is very true.

Oprah: Uh-huh. I wonder what it feels like, I will never know since I cannot sing one thing, but, what it feels like to be on stage with a sea of people, a sea of people. One of the things that has impressed me in putting the pieces together for you, is all around the world, the response to you is so incredible. I just wanted to, for the rest of you in the world who haven't seen how people respond to Michael Jackson to take a look.... [Cut to concert clips and crowd scenes from around the world, with 'Will You Be There' playing as background music.]

Oprah: So, when you're standing there and there's a sea of people responding to you, screaming you name as they were, what does it feel like?

Michael: Love, you just feel lots of love and I feel blessed and honored to be able to be an instrument of nature that was chosen to give them that, what I give them. I'm very honored and happy about that.

Oprah: An instrument of nature - that's an interesting way to describe your- self.

Michael: Thank you, yes.

Oprah: Are you very spiritual?

Michael: In what sense?

Oprah: I mean, do you, do you meditate? Do you understand that there's something bigger than yourself at work here?

Michael: I believe in God, absolutely, absolutely, very much.

Oprah: Uh-huh. And I believe that everybody comes to the world for a reason. I think, um, most of us spend our lives trying to figure out what the purpose of our being here is. What do you think yours is?

Michael: My purpose?

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: Oh, boy, I think, um, to give in the best way I can through song, and through dance and through music. I mean, I am committed to my art. I believe that all art has as it's ultimate goal the union between the material and the spiritual, the human and the divine. I believe that to be the reason for the very existence of art.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: And, um, I feel I was chosen as an instrument to just give music and love and harmony to the world. To children of all ages, and um, adults and teenagers.

Oprah: Do you think that by talking now, setting the record straight for yourself, that maybe people will be able to focus more attention on your music and not judge you for anything other than the kind of music that you play?

Michael: I would hope so. I would love that.

Oprah: Well, I hope that comes out of this, too. I'm also excited that the world is watching, and because the world is watching, we thought this was a good time to let the world see the world premiere of Give In To Me. [Cut to world premiere showing of 'Give In To Me' video.]

Oprah: So, we want to know how it starts on a piece of paper-quench my desire-and turns into that.

Michael: Well, Give In To Me, I wanted to write another song, you know, that was kinda exciting and fun and had a rock edge to it. You know, like when I did Beat It and Black or White. And Slash, who's a dear friend of mine, we love animals and things like that, he wanted to play guitar and I wanted him to play guitar. We got together and we went to Germany and we shot this thing in just like two hours. We had no time at all to shoot it. We wanted it to be exciting and fantastical and fans, you know, like it's a rock concert and that's how it ends up, that's the result.

Oprah: You mentioned animals. I know everyone's going to ask me when I leave here, where are all the animals? I said it in the opening, I expected chimps to be jumping all over the living room and I didn't see any. Where's Bubbles?

Michael: [laughs] Well, the animals are everywhere. They're in their habitats. They're all over the ranch. And they come out in the daytime and they play and jump around, they have their own playground and area.

Oprah: Why, why were you so fascinated by animals, do you think?

Michael: Because I find in animals the same thing I find so wonderful in children. That purity, that honesty, where they don't judge you, they just want to be your friend. I think that is so sweet.

Oprah: I do, too. We'll be right back with Michael Jackson, live.

Oprah: We're live at Michael Jackson's house, in his theater and we asked NBC for ninety minutes. I don't think it was enough time.

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: I think we've cleared up all the rumors though. There are no chimps running around the house-

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: No oxygen tank in the house. I don't know, are you going to lay off the crotch a little bit?

Michael: [laughs] Ask the music.

Oprah: Ask the music will you lay off the crotch. Oh, we didn't get about the inauguration. Did you tell President Clinton that you had to be the only person there singing?

Michael: That is horrible. That is the stupidest, craziest story that I have ever heard. I mean, why would I just want me and nobody else could be on the show, just me. That's so stupid, to me. I mean, it's crazy. That's not even in my heart. I would never say any- thing like that. Again, somebody made it up and the whole world believed it. It is so false, it's incredible.

Oprah: What do you want, want most - what do you want the world to know about you most? I asked Liz that of you, what do you want them to know?

Michael: Like to be remembered for?

Oprah: Not to be remembered for - what about for now? Forget remembered.

Michael: Oh, known for now. As to be an artist, a great artist. I, I love what I do and I would love people to love what I do and to be loved. I just simply want to be loved wherever I go. All over the world, because I love people of all races from my heart, with true affection.

Oprah: Hmm. You know, Gene Siskel who's a movie critic asked me this question once. And I love the question, so I am going to ask you.

Michael: Yeah?

Oprah: You're 34 years old. What do you know for sure?

Michael: Hmm. What do I know for sure?

Oprah: What do you know for sure?

Michael: Oh, boy, I'm still learning. I mean, life is an education for me. I can't say that I know anything for sure. I really believe that.

Oprah: I can't thank you enough for letting us in and I wish you all the happiness in the world. I loved being here because it makes me feel like a child again and one of the things I promised myself was that when this interview was over-live around the world- I was going to go get on that Ferris Wheel!

Michael: [laughs]

Oprah: And that is exactly what I intend to do. I'm gonna take off my blue shoes and I'm gonna ride that Ferris Wheel!

Michael: [continues laughing]

Oprah: I'm gonna have a good time and have myself a little popcorn, maybe, and maybe when it's all over, you'll teach me how to do the Moonwalk - when everybody's not looking!

Michael: O.K.! O.K.! That sounds good.

Oprah: Yeah! This was fun! Michael: Yeah! Lots of fun! Interview with Ebony Magazine (1994)

October 1994 by Robert E. Johnson (JET Associate Publisher)

Introduction

In the first one-on-one interview the "King of Pop, Rock and Soul" Michael Jackson granted after he shook up America with the announcement of his marriage to Lisa Marie Presley, daughter of the late Rock 'n' Roller Elvis Presley, the megastar revealed to EBONY where they met and how he proposed.

Some published reports said that the couple had known each other only eight months before Lisa Marie Presley-Jackson issued a statement, saying: "My name is Mrs. Lisa Marie Presley-Jackson. My marriage to Michael took place in a private ceremony outside the United States [May 26]." She said the marriage was not formally announced because "we are both very private people living in the glare of the public media... I am very much in love with Michael. I dedicate my life to being his wife. I understand and support him. We both look forward to raising a family and living happy, healthy lives together. We hope friends and fans will understand and respect our privacy."

It was their love of privacy that prompted media probes that resulted in published stories that stated the couple knew each other only eight months before beginning their romance that led to matrimony.

The truth is that Michael, now 36, and Lisa Marie, 26, were just a couple of youngsters when they met in Las Vegas 20 years ago. He was 16 and she was 6. The Jackson Five, with Michael out front as the lead singer, appeared at the MGM Grand Hotel April 9 through 23, 1974, and August 21 through Sept. 3, 1974.

Interview

Michael, taking time out from his studio recording session in New York to give EBONY an exclusive interview, recalls:

"Her father [Elvis] used to bring her to catch our show where all nine of us [Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon, Randy, Maureen 'Rebbie', LaToya and Janet, then 8] were performing... It was a real family show -- the only family show in Las Vegas which allowed children to come." He continued: "Elvis would bring his daughter, Lisa Marie. She would sit right in the front and bodyguards would be right there. Afterwards, she would be escorted backstage and I would meet her and we would talk. This happened quite often. She would come again, again and again. It was quite an event. "After that, I didn't see her for quite a while. You know, it was like ships passing in the night -- hello and goodbye."

Lisa Marie married musician Danny Keough in 1988 and two children (Danielle, now 5, and Benjamin, 2) were born to this union. Differences that the couple did not reconcile resulted in a "quickie" divorce in the Dominican Republic last spring.

Three years ago when he started the DANGEROUS album, which featured such hits as "Why You Wanna Trip On Me," "Remember The Time," "She Drives Me Wild" and "Can't Let Her Get Away," Michael said their relationship reached a new plateau.

"We sort of went out together. Then we would talk on the phone... I noticed that we had come closer. We went to Las Vegas for The Jackson Family Honors [in 1993]. We later traveled to Atlanta for (former) President Jimmy Carter to visit children, but no one knew that she was there with me.

The brilliant thing about us is that we were often together but did not let anybody know about it. We got to see each other that way over the years. We were really quiet and comfortable with each other. That's pretty much how the dating started happening."

It was during this period that Michael said their relationship changed from being good friends to lovers. As a sensitive songwriter who deals with feelings that run the range of human emotions, Michael has an uncanny sense of the chemistry in writing songs. For him, that chemistry is inspiration. If you listen to the lyrics of "Remember The Time" and "I Can't Let Her Get Away," in the 1991 release of his 'Dangerous' album, you conclude that Lisa Marie could have provided the inspiration.

She certainly provided the kind of support he needed in 1993 when he was going through legal trials and tribulations. "I was on tour and it seemed like I was in Armageddon -- Armageddon in the brains," Michael remembered. "All these horrible stories were going around about me. None was true. It was unbelievable. Lisa Marie would call. I could count my true friends on one hand. She was very, very supportive the whole time. That really impressed me. She would call and be crying. She was angry and really wanted to choke people.

"But, really, what impressed me was earthquake day in L.A. [June 28, 1993]," Michael says with an air of excitement. "On earthquake day, my phone just happened to be working. I was terrified -- almost out of my brains. I thought the world was ending. I got a phone call that day and it was from her, right after the quake."

Later, in London, where he underwent treatment for addiction to prescription drugs, Michael said that Lisa Marie gave him the impression that their relationship was moving them toward each other in ties that bind. "She would call me, but she didn't always get through to me. And that made it very frustrating for her. I got all the messages... She was very concerned." It was after these experiences that Michael says he came to that moment when he had to say "This Girl Is Mine" and "The Way You Make Me Feel." (Michael chuckles at the play on the words of two of his best-selling songs.)

"It kind of unfolded," he said of the moment of truth. "We spent a lot of time on the ranch [his sprawling, multimillion-dollar Neverland] and just walked around and talked. It happened! It unfolded all natural. We could feel the feeling we had for each other without even talking about it. It was all in the vibrations, the feelings and the look in our eyes."

After he recounted how a friendship turned to romance, Michael was asked: "Who proposed, you or Lisa Marie?" He responded: "I proposed." Blushing at the recollection, Michael said: "Well, first I asked -- I'm the shyest person in the world. I said to her -- we were on the phone -- 'If I asked you to marry me, would you?' She said, 'Of course!' Then there was silence. I said, 'Excuse me, I've got to go to the bathroom,' he laughed sheepishly. "So I came back. I didn't quite know what to say. But that's how it happened." Following the telephone proposal and acceptance, the engaged couple promptly met at Neverland, where the romance started. It climaxed in marriage on May 26 in the Dominican Republic, proving that love conquers all.

The couple honeymooned briefly in Budapest, Hungary, where the bride shared some time with the groom on a film location, where he produced a promotional video for his upcoming album, 'HISTORY.' They also spent some time doing what they both love -- caring for children. They visited children's hospitals where they comforted the young patients and distributed toys.

This was a prelude to the priority they have agreed upon. The priority is not recording together, although Lisa Marie inherited her famous father's talent for singing and his estate valued at over $150 million.

"All this talk about us recording together is a complete rumor," says Michael, whose financial worth is estimated to be over $200 million. "The thing we want to do most is centered around children. I never met anybody who cared so much about children the way I do. I get real emotional about children. Lisa Marie is the exact same way. Wherever we go, we visit children's hospitals. My dream is that when we go to South Africa and India, we will aid children," he discloses. Asked about plans for their own children, he replied: "It's already happening." Then the fifth born of the nine Jacksons paused and added: "I want more children than my father [Joseph] has."

Prime Time Live Interview June 14, 1995 (Hollywood, USA)

Diane Sawyer's live interview with Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley-Jackson took place at the old MGM set at Sony Pictures in Hollywood, California, USA. It was broadcast live on ABC in the US and on television stations around the world.

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Introductory Segment

Diane Sawyer: Make no mistake about it, for all that fantasy and flash, Michael Jackson is serious business. Ask anyone in this town. Ask the people at Sony Music who say his next album and videos alone could bring in close to one billion dollars worldwide. So it's not hard to understand why the shockwave of those allegations two years ago registered like the last earthquake out here. What everyone wants to know, is he really on his way back? This is the old MGM set at Sony Pictures where all those dreams were put on film. Seemed like a good place to begin this hour. Because whatever you think about Michael Jackson, you cannot ignore what he achieved, a little boy with all those dreams in his voice.

It's the once upon a time story that we all know by heart. Out of this tiny house in Gary, Indiana, where among the nine children of a crane worker at the steel yards, came the raw talent that rocked Motown.

This is the audition, which Michael Jackson charms, glides, and spins his family into stardom. But we've also heard the other side of this fairytale. The brothers claimed that their father drove them brutally, beat them. This is the man Michael said made him nauseous with fear.

Joe Jackson: I don't know anything about him being sick but, regurgitating but if he, did 'gurgitate, he, he 'gurgitated all the way to the bank.

Diane Sawyer: But on stage the little boy felt invulnerable. Wielding the voice that would enchant for the next twenty-five years. Even as the singer radically changed. We sat down a week and a half ago to talk only about music. We looked at the Ed Sullivan Show, 1970. He remembers exactly what he was thinking.

Michael: [taped at a recording studio] That the whole world was like watching me. My father used to always say, Don't mess up, you know, and I felt I knew every part and if something went wrong, I felt I could cover it.

Diane Sawyer: But by adolescence a private price was being paid. He said it was agony. That people stared, clearly wishing that he was still that cute little boy. At the time, his mother worried that he was withdrawn.

Katherine Jackson: Michael is quiet now. When he was younger he wasn't that quiet. And I don't know I think the stage might have done that to him.

[footage of an interview with Sylvia Chase, taped in the late 70's]

Michael: Bein' around, you know, everyday people and stuff, I feel strange, I do.

Sylvia Chase: Shy?

Michael: Yeah.

Diane Sawyer: 1979, . 20-20. He told Sylvia Chase people won't let him be just, normal.

Michael: They won't talk to me like their, well, their next door neighbour.

Diane Sawyer: But somehow Jackson used isolation to sharpen his sense of what was exotic and new. By 1983, the 25th anniversary of Motown, another Michael Jackson emerged. His own creation. From the music, to the muscle. To the magic. It was a triumph. But, he still sees only what he missed.

Michael: I wanted to, do the five spins and, go on the toes and, freeze there, and just hold it, and stay there, you know. And I didn't, but, they didn't know.

Diane Sawyer: It's the doubles bargain. A perfectionist trying to give the audience more. A chameleon, whose changes are more and more extreme. Making you wonder if it's all still part of his plan, or like thoust, his prison. Because even today Jackson obsesses over every word, every note, every sound. Listen.

What you're hearing is not an electric drum machine, it's a hard-wired, 48 track, digitally-mastered human.

[Tape of Michael's voice box, mimicking various instruments is playing.]

Michael: ...You know what I mean. I'll take that and use that as the main foundation for the track, and build, all the sounds around that. You know what I'm sayin'?

Diane Sawyer: So, whatever the future, the music will always be inside the man, who says soon he'll be back, where he's most at home.

Diane Sawyer: Are you really anxious to get back onstage?

Michael: Hmmm, I miss the fans. That's my chance to get to really, you know, see them and, feel their presence.

When we do a concert, and there's like a hundred thousand people out there, and you see a sea of people singing there, all in unison, holding up candles, and, you go, wow! You know it's, it really makes your heart happy and that's what really makes me feel like everything's OK.

Diane Sawyer: But as we said, two years ago that, this shy man faced some grave accusations that he had molested a young boy. As the headlines raged, a lot of people wondered if what had seemed merely eccentric was in fact something sinister. And the children always around him, were they lured by a seducer? The lingering question was, was Michael Jackson guilty? Or had he been put through two years of unequalled injustice? And hell. For parents, a warning it's an adult topic. This was the allegation. A twelve year old boy, said that over a period of four months, while repeatedly sleeping alone in the same bed with Michael Jackson, there was kissing, then fondling, then masturbation. The boy said he had protested but Jackson had wept, saying that it was alright other boys had done it with him. That was the allegation. But, for the prosecution there were problems. The boy had spoken at the urging of his father, who was also seeking custody. And the father had talked to the Jackson camp about money, twenty million dollars according to the Jackson team. This is the father talking to someone he knew on tape.

Father: [from a taped phote converstation] - So, if I go through with this, I win big time. There is no way that I lose.

Diane Sawyer: But, whatever the circumstances of the disclosure authorities say they believed the boyÕs story. The investigation of Michael Jackson was set in motion and within days hit the airwaves.

Reporter 1: Tonight, a police investigation into allegations that Michael Jackson sexually abused a young boy.

Reporter 2: The pop star Michael Jackson under investigation for alleged child abuse...

Diane Sawyer: It was a tabloid feeding-frenzy as people who worked for Jackson shopped stories, all claiming to belating knowledge of what they called, the special friends. And even when some of Jackson's young friends tried to defend him, they raised other troubling questions. This is eleven year old boy Brett Barnes talking to a TV interviewer.

Interviewer: When you'd have sleep-overs and you'd stay in the same room or the same bed would that seem unusual to you at all?

Brett: No. 'Cuz I slept on one side of the bed, he slept on the other, and that was that.

Diane Sawyer: After several months of headlines, Jackson, on tour, and then, reportedly in treatment for addiction to pain-killers, returned to the United States and submitted to a series of police photographs. Sources say, to see if they matched his accuser's description of identifying marks, on what authorities called his private parts. December 22, Jackson went public.

Michael: Don't treat me like a criminal, 'cause I am innocent. I have been forced to submit to a dehumanizing and humiliating, examination by the Santa Barbara County Sheriff Department and the Los Angeles Police Department earlier this week. They served a search warrant on me, which allowed them to view and photograph my body, including my penis, my buttocks, my lower torso, thighs, and any other area that they wanted.

Diane Sawyer: One month later, January 25th, 1994, Michael Jackson settled the civil suit filed by his young accuser. How much? Reportedly in the neighbourhood of fifteen to twenty million dollars. After the settlement, the boy refused to testify in the criminal case. So, after thirteen months of headlines, the prosecuters said, it was over.

Gil Garcetti: We must decline prosecution, involving Mr. Jackson.

Diane Sawyer: They had no other children who would come forward in court. And none of the employees who claimed to have seen questionable things, had a story that could be confirmed by a child. To this day, a number of investigators remain convinced that glamour and money are so attractive, they can produce loyalty and silence. While Jackson's team insists that it ended, because nothing happened in the first place. When we come back, Michael Jackson and Lisa-Maree Presley, their chance to speak.

The Interview

Diane Sawyer: And with me, of course, Michael Jackson and Lisa-Marie Presley. Welcome to Prime Time.

Michael: Thank you.

Diane Sawyer: Glad you're here. It occurs to me, looking at the two of you, I have got to start, by asking, how this marriage took place, how it began. Let me guess that it was not over miniature golf and a hot dog, or something. When did it start? When was the dating?

Michael: Well, we first met, she was seven years old and I was seventeen. This was in Las Vegas. She used to come and see my show all the time. We had the only family show on the strip, the Jackson 5. And, she used to come, as a little girl, and sit right up front. She came quite often. She came with a lot of bodyguards. And ...

Diane Sawyer: Had you stayed in touch with her?

Michael: Sure, sure. And then she'd come backstage, then I'd, you know, talk and say hi and then she'd come again. And I thought she was sweet, and loving, and I hoped , I always hoped I'd see her again.

Diane Sawyer: And who first talked about marriage?

Lisa Marie: We didn't stay in touch...after that.

Michael: We didn't stay in touch after that, no.

Lisa Marie: He, he...go ahead, you wannted to say it. Go ahead.

Michael: No, you can say it. You can, you have a good memory.

Lisa Marie : Well, you said you were going to say it.

Diane Sawyer: Our first argument here, um, this hour. Who, who proposed? I mean, how did marriage actually get discussed?

Michael: Well, well, at first this is what happened. When she was 18, I used to tell my lawyer, John Branca: do you know Lisa-Marie Presley? He'd go, well, I represent her mother.I'd go, well, can you get in touch with her, 'cause, I think she's really cute. And he'd laugh everytime. He goes, I'll try my best, that's what he'd say. Then he'd come back and I said...well did you find out? He said, no, there's nothing. So I would worry him about this all the time. The next thing I noticed, there was a picture on a magazine cover where she's married, which really tore me to pieces, because I felt that was supposed to be me, I really did.

Diane Sawyer: And what, what was the countdown to your marriage? Tell me, who said the word marriage first?

Michael: I did.

Lisa Marie: He did.

Diane Sawyer: When? Where?

Michael: When, where?

Lisa Marie: On the telephone.

Michael: Oh yeah, oh yeah on the telephone.

Lisa Marie: He first asked me, we were dating now for four months...right? Four months?

Michael: I don't remember.

Lisa Marie: Anyway, we were spending a lot of time together. I don't know how it didn't manage to get in the press, because we weren't hiding it. I was in Las Vegas, we were in...

MJ and LM : We were everywhere together.

Lisa Marie: Everywhere.

Michael: Went to bookstores,...

Lisa Marie: To bookstores. We were not hiding it.

Diane Sawyer: And you said yes right away?

Lisa Marie: I was separated for four months now, and he said: "What would you do if I asked you, to marry me?" And I said, I would.

Michael: A big I would, you were really enthusiastic! [giggling]...

Diane Sawyer: I have to ask you this, because I can only imagine there are a number of lawyers involved in a pre-nuptual agreement, between these two fortunes. Is there one? A careful one?

Michael: Well, we've worked out things and we've signed certain things but, of course...that's very confidential.

Lisa Marie: We agreed, we made agreements prior, yes.

Diane Sawyer: As you know, the reaction to this marriage, and I know you feel strongly about it, but the reaction to this marriage has been across the spectrum, everything from astonishment, to delight, to . . .suspicion. That it was somehow . . .too convenient. Lisa, did you ask Michael about the charges? Did the two of you think about the impact, of the marriage, on the allegations?

Lisa Marie: Absolutely not. He called...I was in touch with him through the whole process of this, charges going on. I was talking to him when he disappeared. I was actually supposed to go to Santa Juan, Puerto Rico, when he left and disappeared, and I got a call that he wasn't going to be there, and I was actually part of the whole thing with him, by talking to him on the phone. So....

Diane Sawyer: Did you say to him: "Are they true?"

Lisa Marie: No, I didn't. No...I actually did not.

Diane Sawyer: I want to take a minute here, and I'm gonna come back to the marriage....

Lisa Marie: Could I just...sorry. He, he, went, on and on and on about it, so I didn't really have to say, "Are the allegations true?" He was gggrrr [imitating Michael's outrage] on the phone, y'know, and .....

Diane Sawyer: Over and over.

Lisa Marie: Just constant...yeah.

Diane Sawyer: Well, [turning to Michael] because I know that you've wanted to express similar sentiments for a long time, I want to ask a few things about the charges. But first I want to establish for the viewers here, there are no ground rules. You have said to me you are not afraid of any questions. So, I wanted that understood by everybody before we proceed. I think I want to begin by making sure that the terms are clear. You have said you would never harm a child. I want to be as specific as I can. Did you ever, as this young boy said you did, did you ever sexually engage, fondle, have sexual contact with this child, or any other child?

Michael: Never, ever. I could never harm a child, or anyone. It's not in my heart, it's not who I am. And it's not what I'm.....I'm not even interested in that.

Diane Sawyer: And what do you think should be done to someone who does that?

Michael: To someone who does that? What I think should be done? Gee . . .I think they need help . . .in some kind of way . . .you know.

Diane Sawyer: How about the police photographs, though? How was there enough information from this boy about those kinds of things?

Michael: The police photographs?

Diane Sawyer: The police photographs.

Michael: That they took of me? ....

Diane Sawyer: Yeah.

Michael: There was nothing that matched me to those charges, there was nothing.

Lisa Marie: There was nothing they could connect to him.

Michael: That's why I'm sitting here talking to you today. There was not one iota of information that was found, that could connect me .....

Diane Sawyer: So when we've heard the charges....

Michael: There was nothing......

Diane Sawyer: ...markings of some kind?

Michael: No markings.

Diane Sawyer: No markings?

Michael: No.

Diane Sawyer: Why did you settle the.....

Michael: Why am I still here then?

Lisa Marie: You're not going to ask me about them, are you? [laughing] Sorry. About the markings?

Diane Sawyer: You volunteered.

Lisa Marie: No, I'm just....the point is, is that when that finally got concluded that there was no match-up, then, it was printed this big [showing a tiny area], as opposed to how big it was, what the match-up was supposed to be.

Michael: Because it isn't so!

Diane Sawyer: Why did you settle the case then?

Michael: The whole thing is a lie.

Diane Sawyer: Why did you settle the case? And, it looks to everyone as if you paid a huge amount of money....

Michael: That's...that's, most of that's folklore. I talked to my lawyers, and I said, "can you guarantee me, that justice will prevail?" And they said: "Michael, we cannot guarantee you that a judge, or a jury will do anything." And with that I was like catatonic, I was outraged!

Diane Sawyer: How much money.....

Michael: Totally outraged. So, I said...I have got to do something to get out from under this nightmare. All these lies and all these people coming forth to get paid and all these tabloid shows, just lies, lies, lies, lies. So what I did, we got together again with my advisors and they advised me. It was a hands down, unanimous decision - resolve the case. This could be something that could go on for seven years!....

Diane Sawyer: How much money was....

Michael: We said, let's get it behind us.

Diane Sawyer: Can you say how much?

Michael: It's not what the tabloids have printed. It's not all this crazy outlandish money, no, it's not at all. I mean, the terms of the agreement are very confidential.

Diane Sawyer: I want to ask ....

Lisa Marie: He's been barred to discuss it. The, the....

Diane Sawyer: The specific terms ....

Lisa Marie: The specific terms

Diane Sawyer: Of the agreement.

Lisa Marie: The specific amounts.

Michael: The idea, it just isn't fair...what they put me through. 'Cause there wasn't one piece of information that says I did that. And anyway, they turned my room upside-down, went through all my books, all my videotapes, all my private things, and they found nothing, nothing, nothing that could say Michael Jackson did this. Nothing!

Diane Sawyer: But let me ask you a couple of questions....

Michael: To this day, nothing. Still, nothing.

Diane Sawyer: Let me ask you ....

Michael: Nothing, nothing, nothing.

Diane Sawyer: Nothing. We got nothing. As you may or may not know, we have called everyone we could call, we have checked everything we can check, we have gone and tried to see if what we heard before is in fact the case...I want to ask you about two things. These reports that we read over and over again, that in your room they found photographs of young boys...

Michael: Not of young boys, of children, all kinds of girls and . . . everything.

Diane Sawyer: And that they found photographs...books, of young boys who were undressed.

Michael: Noooo.

Diane Sawyer: It didn't happen?

Michael: No. Not that I know of, unless people sent me things that I haven't opened. People send, people know my love for children, so they send me books from all over the world. From South America, from Germany, from Italy, from Sweden, I....

Diane Sawyer: So people say, that they found those things, that there's an indication, let them come forward. Let them produce them, right?

Michael: Yeah, because I get all...I get all kinds...you wouldn't believe the amounts of mail that I get. If you say to somebody, you know, if I let the fans know that I love Charlie Chaplin, I'll be swarmed in Charlie Chaplin paraphanalia.

Diane Sawyer: What about...

Michael: If I say I love children, which I do, they swarm me with everything pertaining to kids.

Diane Sawyer: Any other settlements...in process now or previously with children making these kinds of claims. We have heard... that there is one, not, not a case that the prosecutors would bring in court.

Michael: No.

Diane Sawyer: ...but, but once again, you're talking about shelling out....

Michael: No. That's not true. No. It's not true. I think, I've heard everything is fine, and there are no others.

Part 2 Diane Sawyer: I guess , let me ask this, and I'm trying to think how to phrase it, though. I can hear out in the country people saying - and you've been cleared of all the charges, I want to make that clear. People saying, look here is a man who is surrounded by...things that children love. Here is a man who spends an inordinate amount of time, with these young boys.

Michael: That's right.

Diane Sawyer: What is a thirty-six year old man doing, sleeping... with a twelve year old boy? Or a series of them?

Michael: Right. OK, when you say boys, it's not just boys, and I've never invited just boys to come in my room. C'mon, that's just ridiculous. And that's a ridiculous question. But since people want to hear it...y'know, the answer , I'll be happy to answer it. I have never invited anyone into my bed, ever. Children love me, I love them. They follow me, they want to be with me. But... anybody can come in my bed, a child can come in my bed if they want.

Lisa Marie: I can say ....I can, I can say...sorry. I've seen this, I've seen it a lot. I've seen kids. I've seen him with children in the last year. I've seen it enough to where I can see how that can happen. It's...y'know...I understand ....

Diane Sawyer: Isn't part of being an adult...and you have a two year old child...two year old boy.

Michael to Lisa Marie: Didn't you want to finish?

Lisa Marie: Yeah. Lemme just, lemme just...sorry.

Diane Sawyer: Okay.

Lisa Marie: I, I just wanted to say I've seen these children. They don't let him go to the bathroom...without...running in there with him. And they won't let him out of their sight. So when he jumps in the bed, I'm even out. Y'know, they, they jump in the bed with him.

Diane Sawyer: But isn't part of being an adult...and loving children, keeping children from ambiguous...situations? And again we're talking about over an intense period of time here. Would you, let your son when he grows up, and is twelve years old, do that?

Lisa Marie: You know what, if I didn't know Michael, no way. But I happen to know who he is, and what he is. And that makes it . . . y'know. I know that he's not, y'know...I know that he's not like that, and I know he has a thing for children, and I...go ahead, sorry.

Diane Sawyer: I just want to...is it over? Are you gonna make sure it doesn't happen again? I think, this is really the key thing people wanna know.

Michael: Is what over?

Diane Sawyer: That there are not going to be more of these sleep-overs, in which people have to wonder.

Michael: Nobody wonders when kids sleep over at my house. Nobody wonders.

Diane Sawyer: But are they over? Are you...are you gonna watch out for it now?

Michael: Watch out for what?

Diane Sawyer: Just for the sake of the children and for everything you've been through.

Michael: No! 'Cuz, it's all...it's all moral and it's all pure. I don't even think that way, it's not what's in my heart.....

Diane Sawyer: So you'll, you'll do it again?

Michael: I would never ever.....Do what again?

Diane Sawyer: I mean, you'll have a child sleeping over.

Michael: Of course! If they want.

Lisa Marie: He has ...

Michael: It's on the level of purity and love, and just innocence. Complete innocence. If you're talking about sex then that's a nut. That's not me! Go to the guy down the street 'cause it's not Michael Jackson. It's not what I'm interested in.

Diane Sawyer: OK, we're gonna take a break now. When we come back, Elizabeth Taylor...talked to us a little bit about what she saw when she went over and talked to you, in the middle of this and helped you get treatment for addiction to painkillers.

Michael: Oh, wow....Elizabeth is on the show!

Diane Sawyer: When we come back.

[commercial break]

Diane Sawyer: As we said, Elizabeth Taylor is going to talk a little bit about when she came to see you in the middle of this, what she called agony. And one of the things she was so..., I think she was so angry about with us, was that she said people always talk about one side of a person, they never give them credit for their accomplishments .

Michael: That's right.

Diane Sawyer: ...particularly, what they give to children and the money you give to children, that's how it starts.

[Showing taped interview with Elizabeth Taylor]

Elizabeth Taylor: When he's on tour...he goes to hospitals, without the press following him. Without anyone knowing. He'll get up in a disguise and do it. Take his disguise off when he's there, and kids know, "Wow, it's Michael Jackson!".

Diane Sawyer: Was there no point at which you said to yourself... reading everything everybody had been reading...maybe this is true, maybe I completely didn't understand who he was.

Elizabeth Taylor: No way. Absolutely not.

Diane Sawyer: Never?

Elizabeth Taylor: Never. I know Michael's heart. I know his mind and his soul. I'm not that insensitive. Especially to him, or people I love.

Diane Sawyer: How did you decide to go to Singapore?

Elizabeth Taylor: He was my friend...he was alone. He was totally alone. And he just ..... he needed help. Nothing in the world could have hurt him more. If it had been calculated, if they'd planned an assassination, they couldn't have done it any better. It almost...it almost broke his heart.

Diane Sawyer (voice-over): She said she recognised a friend turning to painkillers for escape.

Elizabeth Taylor: He wasn't aware of what was happening, he was dulling his pain. But, it really frightened me because I have been there. And I know how easy it is to get there when you're in mental or physical pain.

Diane Sawyer: And he knew right away that he had to deal with it, to . .

Elizabeth Taylor: Not right away, not right away...but he knew.

[back to interview with Michael and Lisa Marie]

Diane Sawyer: There were some reports during this period, Michael, that it was such agony for you that you were actually suicidal. Is that true?

Michael: I was never suicidal. I love life too much to ever be suicidal. I'm resiliant. I have rhinocerous skin. Never, ever suicidal.

Diane Sawyer: Did it leave you, though . . .

Michael: Heartbroken [touching his heart] , but not suicidal.

Diane Sawyer: Did it leave you changed, completely? I...I've talked to you a little bit about what you're thinking about where you want to live...in the world. Did it change your view about living here? Are you thinking about living someplace else?

Michael: I don't care to stay in America anymore, no. I...I don't care. I will always have Neverland, y'know. 'Cuz I...I have Neverland. I don't like...I'm very sensitive to the smog. Y'know, so I can't have the smog. And ah, I would like to go abroad. Matter of fact, I am.

Diane Sawyer: You are?

Michael: Yes.

Diane Sawyer: Where?

Michael: Ooh, I haven't decided the exact place yet. Probably South Africa, maybe.

Diane Sawyer: To live permanently?

Michael: Maybe, aah, Switzerland.

Diane Sawyer: Lisa, are you in favour of it?

Lisa Marie: Can we just...change...wait, just go into the fact that we don't live in separate houses for...to start this with.

Michael: Yeah, we don't live in separate...this is just a dream.

Lisa Marie: ...it's ridiculous. Wherever the camera is. Anyway, um...sorry, heh.

Michael: No. Jump in any time.

Lisa Marie: What? How do I feel about the overseas thing? I think that its a nice place to visit, yes. I would like to have a...a house over there.

Diane Sawyer: Hmmm.

Lisa Marie: We would be completely and utterly harrassed beyond belief...but

Michael: [laughing]

Diane Sawyer: Before we move away from the last two years, we told you, because we want to, that we are going to show, what is really your...comment...of those two years. And ah...is a video you have done with your sister Janet, called Scream. And in it you have some words, for middle-aged people who can't follow these words. Ahh, the words you'll hear will be about confusion, bashing, victimising, "stop pressuring me", he says, "makes me want to scream." The last two years.

['Scream' video is shown]

Diane Sawyer: We have some...wedding video, of the two of you. And I'm gonna let you tell us a little bit about what we're seeing here...if our director Roger Goodman wants to roll it in, we will take you there, a years ago. Right?

Lisa Marie: Yes.

Diane Sawyer: Just about exactly.

[weddin video is shown]

Lisa Marie: I look like an idiot, I can tell you that.

Michael: You don't look like an idiot, you look more like a, ah . . . no.

Lisa Marie: [laughing] Do you want me to tell you . . .

Diane Sawyer: Yes.

Lisa Marie: ...while we're watching it?

Diane Sawyer: Tell us.

Lisa Marie: While we're watching.

Diane Sawyer: Tell us. We're watching here live.

Michael (to Lisa Marie): I do.

Lisa Marie (to Michael): What?

Michael (to Lisa Marie): I do.

Lisa Marie (to Michael): Hah.

Lisa Marie: In the middle he [judge] asks for his [Michael's] autograph.

Michael: [Comments to LM about his stretching in the video, but is inaudible.]

Lisa Marie: Right, now we're out of time.

Michael (to Lisa Marie): How do I look?

Lisa Marie (to Michael): Great.

Michael (to Lisa Marie): You sure?

Lisa Marie (to Michael): Yeah.

Diane Sawyer: So...I know, that you, Lisa Marie, have wanted to talk about this. There are a lot of doubters about this marriage. I've heard that it's a Scientology plan, you are a member of the Church of Scientology, which...is said to influence its members greatly, and that the husband you divorced was a Scientologist, and he's still very much in your life and this is all part of a calculation to get . . . Michael, and his money into the church.

Michael: Oooh, gee . . .

Lisa Marie: It's crap. I'm sorry...it, it's like ridiculous It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I'm not...um . First of all, you can't get influenced by anything... . like that...and, and under a term of a marriage... I'm not gonna marry somebody for any reason other than the fact that I've fallen in love with them, period. Period. And they can eat it, if they wanna think any differently . . .

Michael: [laughing out loud!]

Diane Sawyer: To put it succinctly.

Lisa Marie: Yeah.

Diane Sawyer: What is it you love the most about him?

Lisa Marie: Ooh, what do I love the most about him? Everything. He's amazing. I really admire him. I respect him. I admire him. I'm in love with him. And no, we don't sleep in separate bedrooms, thank you very much. And um...I love everything about him.

Diane Sawyer: To finish up on that, though...are you a Scientologist? Are . . .

Michael: No.

Diane Sawyer: Plan to become one?

Michael: I believe in spirituality and I believe in a higher source, such as God. But I'm not a Scientologist. I read everything, I like to read, I love to study.

Diane Sawyer: You said you don't sleep in separate bedrooms, and I'm going to confess, okay...this is live TV and I'm copping out right here, because I didn't spend my life as a serious journalist to ask these kinds of questions. But I'm not oblivious to the fact that your fans...had one question they most wanted to ask of you.

Lisa Marie: Do we have sex?

Diane Sawyer: We have . .

Michael: He, he, he...sh...she didn't ask!!

Lisa Marie: Ha, ha, ha.

Michael: She didn't ask.

Lisa Marie: OK, I won't ask.

Diane Sawyer: Okay.

Michael: We don't know what it was gonna be.

Lisa Marie: Is that what you were gonna ask?

Diane Sawyer: Let's play just a minute or two.

Lisa Marie: Sorry.

Diane Sawyer: Let's play one or two.

[videotaped interterviews with fans]

Fan 1: We wanna know, if you've done 'the thing'?

Fan 2: Michael, I know this is an intimate question, but are you having sex, together, with Lisa Marie?

Fan 3: Do you guys really love each other or are you just doing this to satisfy the media?

Fan 4: Are you guys intimate?

Diane Sawyer: Again...

Michael: I can't believe it.

Lisa Marie: Wow!

Diane Sawyer: But this is about...the scepticism.

Lisa Marie: Yes. Yes! Yes.

Diane Sawyer: And...we have read in the papers, that you, are . . . expecting a child.

Lisa Marie: We won't be expecting a child, no. When...I'm not gonna . . .

Michael: We're not gonna say when, or ..

Lisa Marie: It's personal.

Michael: It's in the hands of the heavens.

Diane Sawyer: But not yet?

Lisa Marie: Did we marry out of convenience? That's really interesting, that's really interesting to me.

Michael: It's ridiculous.

Diane Sawyer: Why?

Lisa Marie: Well, why wouldn't we have a lot in common? That's the question. Why? Why not?

Michael: Like we're faking this?

Lisa Marie: Like...no.

Michael: The most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Lisa Marie: But you can't live with somebody day to day. We're together all the time, first of all. Second thing, how can you fake that 24 hours a day with somebody? Sleeping with somebody. Waking up with somebody. Having the...

Michael: It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Lisa Marie: He's running around the house. I'm running around the house. You were in our house. We have a normal house, we have a nanny, we have a maid. And...we walk around, and he's either in the studio or I'm in the kitchen. We're running around like normal - I know its hard to believe - people.

Diane Sawyer: You go shopping together...you . .

Lisa Marie: We go shopping. We go out to dinner. We argue . . . sometimes.

Michael: About what, may I say? [to Lisa Marie]

Lisa Marie: [laughs, looks at Michael]

Diane Sawyer: We also heard a report that maybe you were planning to adopt the children.

Michael: Oh, I would love to adopt children. I think that's something I've always wanted to do. But children of all races: Arab children, Jewish children, black children, all races.

Diane Sawyer: But, Lisa's children?

Michael: I love Lisa's children. It's been a mission ...

Diane Sawyer: But are you going to adopt...

Michael: Pardon?

Diane Sawyer: To adopt them, though?

Michael: Oh, I love her children, they're sweet.

Diane Sawyer: But to adopt? No?

Michael: Of course.

Lisa Marie: But if they have a biological father, and he's the . . . he's their . .

Micahel: I think they love me very much. I love them.

Lisa Marie: They do.

Michael: We have a lot of fun.

Lisa Marie: But I've never heard of that before, a person, someone adopting someone's children, while they're in a relationship with that person.

Diane Sawyer: We're going to take a break for a minute, and come back with more questions.

[commercial break]

Diane Sawyer: We're going to show you a film now, created by Michael Jackson. And, it is causing a furor...in some movie theaters around this country. They say among other things that, it is clearly modeled, after 'Triumph of The Will'. They mean, Riefenstahl. A Nazi film with a Nazi meaning to it.

Michael: It's not true. None of that's true. None of those things are true.

Diane Sawyer: Did you watch that film before you did it?

Diane Sawyer: I watch everything, I love movies, I love documentaries. It had nothing to do with that at all.

Diane Sawyer: But there are people who keep saying, this is . . . they look at it and say this is...

Michael: Absolutely not.

Diane Sawyer: You were....

Michael: It has nothing to do with politics, or communism, or fascism at all....

Diane Sawyer: Well, the critics have said that, its the most... body vein, glorious, self-deification a pop singer ever undertook with a straight face.

Michael: Good! That's what I wanted.

Diane Sawyer: For the controversy?

Michael: Yeah! They fell into my trap.

Diane Sawyer: But the people who say that...

Michael: I wanted everybody's attention.

Diane Sawyer: But for the people who say those symbols, matter ...

Michael: No. The symbols...no . .

Diane Sawyer: The suffering ...

Michael: No. The symbol has nothing to do with that. It's not political. It's not Fascist. It's not dogma. It's not...y'know, ideology and all of this stuff. It's pure, simple love. You don't see any tanks, you don't see any cannons. It's about love. It's people coming together . . .

Diane Sawyer: About love. We're gonna let everybody watch a bit of it.

Michael: Yeah, but its art. It is art!

Diane Sawyer: OK.

Michael: We had a director, we get him to create art.

Diane Sawyer: The short answer, coming up...here it comes.

[part of the HIStory trailer is shown]

Diane Sawyer: Well, as we said, we're gonna clearly agree to disagree maybe, on what this means to...some people watching it. There's been another issue raised. In a song you say, "Jew me, sue me". And some people are saying that that is anti-Semitic.

Michael: It's not anti-Semitic. Because, I'm not a racist person. I could never be a racist. I love all races of people - from Arabs, to Jewish people , like I said before, to blacks. But when I say, "Jew me, sue me, everybody do me, kick me, kike me, don't you black or white me, " I'm talking about myself as the victim, you know. My accountants and lawyers are Jewish. My three best friends are Jewish - David Geffen, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Stephen Spielberg, Mike Milkin. These are friends of mine. They're all Jewish. So how does that make sense? I was raised in a Jewish community.

Diane Sawyer: I wanna ask you both about something 'cause it was the second most asked question by people on the street. And I know...I know its a sensitive issue for you, and you talked with Oprah about it. But, somehow, people still...are not, they don't feel they've heard everything about the whiteness of your skin, and that its not somehow a choice on your part , along with the make-up...to be. Is it to be...neither black, or white...neither...to look completely male, to be in the androgynous zone? I, I think they wanna know...it is a decision, on your part in some way, the way you look. Where does it come from?

Michael: I think it creates itself...it's nature.

Lisa Marie: He...he's an artist. He has every right...

Michael: I'm an artist, I'm a performer.

Lisa Marie: And he is constantly re-modifying something or changing it or reconstructing it or...you know, working on some imperfection that he thinks needs to be worked on. If he sees something he doesn't like, he changes it! Period. He re- sculpted himself, he's an artist.

Michael: And I wanna put a red dot right there one day (pointing to his forehead), And two eyes right here.

Diane Sawyer: But...but, do you wish you were...the color you were, again?

Michael: Do I wish I was the cololor?

Diane Sawyer: Black color.

Michael: You have to ask nature that. I loved...I love black, I love black.

Diane Sawyer: But do you wish you were that way?

Michael: I envy her [pointing to Lisa Marie], 'cause she can tan and I can't.

Diane Sawyer: One more question I wanna make sure I ask. Are you going to sing together?

Lisa Marie: No.

Diane Sawyer: The two of you.

Michael: [singing to Lisa Marie] I would love to sing with you, would you like to sing with me?

Lisa Marie: [shaking her head] Mm, mmm.

Diane Sawyer: You don't sing?

Lisa Marie: I don't sing. I did sing, if I wanted it. I mean, I'm not gonna marry someone for a recording career, just want to clear that up as well. Um.

[Michael makes Rabbit's ears behind Lisa Marie's head]

Michael: What? Heh heh.

[Lisa Marie pinches him]

Michael: Stop! [giggling]

Lisa Marie: Um, grrr.

Diane Sawyer: I'm gonna let the two of you dupe this out over here. We'll take a break, and we'll come back.

[commercial break]

Diane Sawyer: And as our hour ends, I'd like to just ask each of you for a one sentence answer. Time's so short. Where do you want to be in five years?

Michael: Oh boy, I love what I'm doing now...and to do everything I can to help the children....and hello Bobby Sherrit.

Lisa Marie: Ah, I just want people to know what they're dealing with, before and... understand, that I'm not the, that we are not .. the jokes, the degrading comments, all that kind of stuff, its really irritating. So I didn't get to get it in there, I hope this is over alreay, but ...

Michael: We want to choke them!

Diane Sawyer: Alright, so in five years you want to...

Lisa Marie: Yeah, we want to choke them.

Michael: Don't believe the garbage, all the tabloid junk. Don't read it, don't listen to it. It's junk, it's stupid, enough of it.

Diane Sawyer: And tonight is over.

Michael: Yes! [raises his fist in victory] Simulchat Interview Thursday, 17 August 1995

On August 17th, Michael met with all his fans around the world on a simulchat including the Internet, Compuserve, America Online, and Prodigy. It was also televised by MTV.

------

TRANSCRIPT:

Compuserve Question from ORLANDO, FL: [76711,475] Janice Maki Brandon: I have been a long time fan and I just want to know how, after all the bad press, you can keep going and doing the best job that any rock star can do? Is it the fact you have such a wonderful wife supporting you, or are there other reasons you stay so damn great?

Michael Jackson: Despite of what the press says about celebrities and myself in general, I move ahead. I don't pay attention to that tabloid junk - it's garbage. I have my dreams I am a visionary and I am very resilient. I feel as if I have a suit of armor around me, like a rhinoceros skin. I am here to do what I am supposed to do. Thank you for asking the first question.

Compuserve Question from MANCHESTER, NH: [102331,3335] Brett Mallard: If you could be any super hero... like Batman, Superman, et al.. whom would you choose to be and why?

Michael Jackson: I like Batman a lot... If I could choose one, it would be Morph, from the X-Men. He can become anything ... He constantly transforms himself. I think he can even teleport, which is interesting and exciting to me. He's not as popular as the others, but that makes him exciting.

Prodigy Question from Darkan: Are you ever going to tour America?

Michael Jackson: I'm not exactly sure, we kind of play it by ear, kind of spontaneous. It would be nice, but I'm not sure.

Internet Question from Brian: Is your new album doing as well as expected? Go MJ!!

Michael Jackson: Yes, I am overly excited about how well the album is doing. It is the fastest selling album in my career. Despite what the press is saying. Unprecedented 7 million worldwide sold in the first week!

Prodigy Question from Spin Cycle: Michael, thanks for coming. What is your favorite song on your newest CD?

Michael Jackson: Probably Earth Song, Stranger in Moscow, Little Susie. I love songs with heart.

AOL Question from Jocelyn: When will the 3T album be in the store?

Michael Jackson: The 3-T are expected around this Christmas. They're going to be very successful.

Prodigy Question from Bruce Ross: How has your marriage to Lisa Marie changed your life?

Michael Jackson: I think I find it more fun to appreciate what family really means. the fact that even though there were 10 of us Jacksons and we were always doing things at different times and I am really learning the real meaning of love. Giving 100% of yourself all the time. Putting up with one another. So far it has been pretty joyous.

Compuserve Question from KANSAS CITY, MO. Jim Shea: Do you ever wish you could walk into a public place and not be mobbed by your fans?

Michael Jackson: I have every disguise you can think of... that is why I wish I could be Morph so I could change places and just enjoy life. I would love to do that.

Prodigy Question from Ally W: Hi Michael. You have an amazing voice. Whose music has helped influence your music most?

Michael Jackson: Thank you for the compliment. That is very nice. To be honest, my first love and appreciation for music was classical, in kindergarten. I used to listen to Tchaikovsky every day. The great writing of Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein, and many others. I love the showtunes.

AOL Question from Marlie14: In your interview with Diane Sawyer, you mentioned moving out of the country. Is this in your future plans?

Michael Jackson: Yes it is.

Prodigy Question from Rros: Where is the most favorite place in the world that you have traveled to and where would you most like to travel to?

Michael Jackson: My most favorite place that I've traveled to probably would have to be between South America and Africa. Because I love the people, and I love the culture. The plight of the children is very interesting and I would love to continue to travel...to see more things and to help more people.

Compuserve Question from ENCINITAS, CA., Gary M. Richards: MICHAEL WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE SONG THAT YOU HAVE RECORDED? AND DO YOU STILL HAVE THE PET MONKEY NAMED BUBBLES, WHO WAS SHOWN IN YOUR GENESIS VIDEO GAME, MOONWALKER?

Michael Jackson: If I had to pick one song... that's very difficult. Probably Ben, Got to Be There, Heal The World, one of the oldies. Bubbles is still alive and still my pet chimp. He's bigger, likes to eat a lot...lots of pizza, ice cream...He loves snacks! [Michael laughs]

Internet Question from MJJ: You have accomplished so much in life. What else would you like to accomplish in life?

Michael Jackson: I love movies my dream is to make films, not only act and sing but to produce them as well. And I love animation.

Prodigy Question from SiBiS: In Oprah's interview, you said that you wanted to raise a family one day..Do you plan to do so??

Michael Jackson: Yes, that's my dream for a long time. My own children, I want to adopt them. Not only my own, but children all over the world. I think we should be less territorial about it.

Compuserve Question from LOMBARD, IL., Kurt A. Lentsch: How did you like working with your sister Janet on the "Scream" Video and also working with your beautiful bride, Lisa Marie. PS Best of luck to you two, don't listen to all the BS going around!

Michael Jackson: That is a great question! The press creates all of these negative stories so that people will buy their magazines or read their columns and you must not believe everything you read or see on television. Most of it is false and it is tabloid garbage and I want everyone to be aware of what the tabloid media is like. I have had so much fun working with my sister and working on the set everyday. I haven't seen her in quite some time and she is busy and I am as well and it is like a reunion. Because of all the family members I am closest to Janet and we became very emotional on the set. We gave each other presents but every day on the set sometimes she would come to me sad because of some crazy story that some tabloid said. I told her that she would have to become resilient because it is there and I want the public to know. And Yes I had fun with Lisa Marie on the set. She wanted to perform in the video. I had a lot of fun with Lisa Marie on the set. But when the director said "Action," she became very shy. I was giving her a little bit of a hard time, too!

Prodigy Question from Gemseeker: When did you learn to Moonwalk? I think it's so cool.

Michael Jackson: Thank you sooo much. I've always loved illusion dancing, where you can create an illusion with the body. There's a new step working on called Skywalk. I've been working on it.

Prodigy Question from blondie101: What inspired you to write the song "Beat It"?

Michael Jackson: Quincy Jones, for the album THRILLER, asked me to write a song with a rock edge to it. I said yes, I can do that. So the very same day, I went to the recording studio, and I literally just started to sing that song. It literally came that fast. Every song is different. The gestation process for BEAT IT was so fast, it was amazing. I thought about what I'd do in that situation... A confrontation with a gang... I wouldn't do what these people would do. The way I was raised I would turn the other cheek without creating a war or being a coward either.

Compuserve Question from VANCOUVER, WA., Brandon: I come from a large family is it hard for you to see the animosity between your sister LaToya and yourself. you seem to be above all the petty gossip that others love to spread. I just want to give you two thumbs up on your maturity.

Michael Jackson: Gee - thank you very much! I love you. Thank you.

Prodigy Question from Curveball: Will there be a next album?

Michael Jackson: I am not sure. This might be my last album I ever do. I will always create music but am not sure if I'll create another album.

Prodigy Question from Midway Gal: How did you get into music?

Michael Jackson: I don't think I can answer that without sounding philosophical. We never had music or dance lessons in our house, ever. We were a family that sang all the time. We watched television. We would entertain ourselves... We would take all the furniture out of the living room and dance. I think you're pretty much born with a gift and you are compelled to create. That is what I have always felt. I remember making up songs when I was really little. I remember when I was little there was rain outside and we would make up songs. Janet and I would have a songwriting game while we washed the dishes...while we were cleaning. I think most kids don't do that these days. It was our destiny.

AOL Question from EvenBeevu: Do you come up with the ideas for all of your videos?

Michael Jackson: A lot of them I do come up with. A lot of the concepts do originate with me. After singing Thriller I knew that I wanted to do a short film. Asimple guy goes out on a date and confesses to her that he's different. I wanted totransform into different things. It was fun. I had so much fun making that. Beat It is another concept that I came up with. Confrontation -two gangs - West Side Story. I wanted real gang members. I wanted to see real truisms...in the walk, in the character in the clothes. and I thinkit came across.

Prodigy Question from Pelon: What has been your proudest musical achievement?

Michael Jackson: One of them it is really a difficult question to answer because I am not a women but writing a song is like conceiving a child... I love all the songs . We are the World is one of the most favorite things that I've done. I am proud of that... it has reached a lot of people, it has touched a lot of people. My Secretary called when I was in the car and said pull over. And it was like a prayer when all of the radio stations played it. I had tears.

Compuserve Question from MELBOURNE, FL., Firefly: Michael, I was wondering if/when we will see more of the old-style video's and mini-movies like "Thriller" and "Moonwalker?"

Michael Jackson: I love that. That's what I want to get back to doing. Well those types of short films are my favorite because it is not just a video in the sense of videos and images and graphics...it's a short story. But to do those takes us up to 4, 5, 6, 7 months sometimes and that has become a problem. We are going back to that. That is my dream.

I'd like to make this announcement: My nephews are in here and want to sit in and listen!

[nephews are entering the room]

Compuserve Question from SEATTLE, WA: [76550,2570] Natalie Ringland: You seem to be interested in many cultures. Have you ever studied the North? I live in an Inupiat Eskimo village at the top of Alaska. Life is different here. If you ever visit, the land and people here might inspire you. Do you travel for inspiration? -- Natalie

Michael Jackson: Yes I do travel for inspiration and I would love to come to Alaska someday. I have flown over Alaska and I do love to travel. Maybe with your extended invitation I might be able to come!

Prodigy Question from Frogbelly: In your song "Childhood" you sing about how you've never really known the joys of youth. What is the one thing you missed the most?

Michael Jackson: Probably the simple little things that kids do like having a friend over or going to the park or even trick-or-treat or Christmas or birthday and when we were little we didn't have any of those things. We had to hear about them. Some of the kids who take them for granted. I haven't celebrated my birthday yet. Maybe someday I will.

Prodigy Question from Diva: Michael, I love HIStory and think it's the best yet. When are you going to release the videos as a complete set?

Michael Jackson: Thank you for the compliment. I worked very hard. This Christmas I think we are going to have a complete up to date of the shorts on one volume.

AOL Question from Applehead: It's one of Apple head's friends, guess which one...hint Family Matters...what is your favorite song on HIStory? Tell Lisa Marie and Janet I said hi!

Michael Jackson: I know exactly who that is! [laughter in the room] My favorite song is probably "Childhood" "Earth Song". But nice to hear from you Brighton, hope I get to see you soon. Tell all my other relatives I said hello.

Prodigy Question from Mr Potter: Do you ever wish you could play small rooms with intimate audiences instead of mega-productions?

Michael Jackson: Yes. I think that is the mark of a true performer, to be able to reach any audience around the world, any size. If you can directly relate to a small group, magic starts to happen. I started out playing those kinds of concerts. This Christmas, I'm doing an HBO special (Dec 10), and it is intimate. It's close-up. It will allow me to do a lot of things I've never done before.

Compuserve Question from EXTERNAL NETWORK - Sam Clarke: Story in UK press this morning claims quickie divorce on the cards? Is it true?

Michael Jackson: Never believe the tabloid garbage. Don't waste your time, don't waste your money. No, it's not true. If you hear it from my lips, then you can believe it. But no, it's not true.

Internet Question From MJJ: What is your process from going from creating a rhythm on your human voice-box to the album version, such as in songs 'Who Is It' and 'Tabloid Junkie'?

Michael Jackson: the process is creating a vocal rhythm to a click track - which is a sound, a timed beat. And you're doing these mouth sounds to that beat. These sounds can be looped according to how you sample it in the computer again and again. This is your foundation for the entire track - everything plays off this. It's the rhythm, like the beatbox rhythm. Every song I've written since I was very little I've done that way. I still do it that way.

AOL Question from Smufetty: I love you and have enjoyed your music since icould hear and see..just one question: how can you keep going when the media makes everything so hard?

Michael Jackson: Thank you for your compliment, I appreciate it.I believe in my work, like I said, I have great confidence in my dreams. When I have a great idea I have an iron will, Even though the media creates such negative stories they do it just to sell more papers. If you look throughout history, and I'm not trying to put my name with the names of the past it's been pretty much the same. Ghandi, Christ and I'm not saying I'm Christ, I don't want to hear the press saying that. Some of the worst attentions had to do with ignorance on the part of the people because of the press. If it happened to them, it can happen to me.

AOL Question from DanielStein: If you could meet someone dead or alive and talk with them for an hour who would it be and why. P.S. Rock on with your bad self!

Michael Jackson: It would probably be Michelangelo because I think he is a phenomenal artist and I love art I think I understand what he was trying to say and do even though he got criticized. He was a true artist to the point of true artistry. I would love to just sit down and have a talk.

Prodigy Question from Tristene: Who is your best friend?

Michael Jackson: Pretty much the same as I've said...the children of the world...for their innocence, their simplicity, and their love. It's the same kind of innocence that I find in animals. They just want you for your love, and I love that.

Compuserve Question from BOUNDBROOK, NJ - AL & MEG: WHAT WAS IT THAT INSPIRED YOU TO BECOME INVOLVED IN HELPING AS MANY CHILDREN AS YOU DO? I THINK WHAT YOU DO FOR CHILDREN IS JUST WONDERFUL. YOU ARE WHAT THESE CHILDREN NEED TO KEEP THEM GOING WHEN TIMES ARE SO TOUGH.

Michael Jackson: I truly care about children, and about the future for our children. I'm a little frightened about what the future is going to bring. I truly, truly love them and care about them. I will always help them. When I go on tour, I visit hospitals, terminally ill children. At my ranch at Neverland, we have many terminally ill children as our guests. We do this every few weeks. You do it because you truly love them and you care.

Internet Question From MJJ: It is rumored (I know you hate that word) that you are doing another book... Do you plan another book, if so, what will it contain?

Michael Jackson: I wrote a book called DANCING THE DREAM. It was more autobiographical than Moonwalker, which I did with Mrs. Onassis. It wasn't full of gossip and scandal and all the trash that people write so I don't think people paid much attention to it, but it came from my heart. It was essays, thoughts, things that I've thought about while on tour. I'm not planning to write another book anytime soon. If you want to know how I to feel, you can check out HIStory. It's a musical book.

Prodigy Question from Gemseeker: When & How did you learn to moonwalk? I think it's sooooo cool! :>

Michael Jackson: Thank you soooo much! I've always loved illusion dancing when you can pretty much create a step or an illusion with the body. THere's a new step that looks like you defy gravity that I've been working on for along time. One of my favorite movers is Marcel Marceau. But a lot of the steps that I do come from my heart. A lot of the steps come from the black community. From tap dancing, to the cake walk, to the Charleston. All these dances come from the black community to go all over the world.

Compuserve Question from COMPUSERVE REROUTED - Jamie Ballengee: Mr. Jackson, What advice would you give someone who is in a similar position with the bad things from the press? My little sister Andrea Ballengee lost her Miss VA crown. :-(

Michael Jackson: You don't pay attention to it. You become strong, you move ahead. The best advice I can give is to believe in yourself, know there's a tomorrow, walk tall...don't pay attention to the garbage...it's complete ignorance.

Internet Question From MsMittens: Oh... before I forget... someone from the internet who couldn't access this site asked me to ask you how you are doing and why you are doing the simulchat tonight?

Michael Jackson: I'm fine, doing all right. [laughs] I'm doing this simulchat because I love my fans, and I want to talk with you! I think this is incredible technology, just amazing, and I think we're pioneering here! Can I say hello to a couple of my friends? Hello, Lisa Marie...Hello, Paul McCartney...Hello, Mrs. Disney... Hello to my friends in Gary, Indiana...I can't think of a good joke to say... I want to say I love all of you, all of my fans around the world I love you dearly and don't listen to all the garbage that you hear.

AOL Question from VanishR29: How do you feel about technology like the internet and it's effect on society?

Michael Jackson: I think it is wonderful. It is a wonderful way to correspond it's growing and this is the tip of the iceberg. In the next year we will see some amazing growths in technology and I hope that I'm around to see it. I pray that we continue to serve the world in a positive way not a negative way and not hurt anyone because it is wonderful.

Internet Question From MJJ: How involved are you with the other groups on the MJJ label?

Michael Jackson: I'm very much involved, not to the point of always being there, but listening to tapes, collaborating on the telephone, picking artists recommending ideas. The new 3T album which I just heard I think is going to be a big success. I do believe that.

I want to say hi to Bill Bellamy in LA - he's a great guy.

Thank you! Good night everybody. Talk to you soon. Bye!

[Claps in the room. Michael shakes everyone's hand, thanking them, and leaves.] Interview with Fans (1996)

November 10th, 1996

While in Asia on his HIStory tour, Michael agreed to an exclusive, on-camera interview with the American video channel VH1, to answer fans' questions. VH1 solicited questions from fans and received thousands of them via email, phone, mail, fax, and from fans on the street. Michael couldn't answer them all but below is the VH1 Interview, word for word... Note that during the entire interview, Michael was very happy and smiling almost all of the time...

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MJ: "In truth, I really don't like being interviewed; I feel it's such an intrusion..... Every interview I've ever done I've been forced into it. And you guys (the fans) have been so nice to me and that's the only reason I agreed to do this."

Question: "What are some of the things that make you angry?" MJ: "I believe in perfection, and I try to create that in everything we do. We never seem to totally get there, but I believe in perfect execution. And when we don't get at least 99.9%, I get really upset, so, that gets me upset."

Question: "Are you going to be doing any more videos off your HIStory album?" MJ: "There's a lot more releases from HIStory. We have the Ghosts [short film] coming up, which is a big one, and Stranger in Moscow, and it's just gonna go on and on. I mean, we're at 28 million albums right now, other than what the press continue to lie about--the tabloid press--they're terrible. Don't read the tabloids - that's something you [the fans] can play. Don't read stories that aren't true. They write these stories to mislead you and you're just making them rich. It's not true, don't read it, it's garbage, it's junk food. Believe what I tell you."

Question: "Why are you wearing a silk mask in your latest appearances?" MJ: "Because with time my skin condition has gotten worse, I hate to say it. I have vitiligo, and I'm totally completely allergic to the sun. I'm not even suppose to be outside actually. Even if I'm in the shade the sun rays can destroy my skin."

Question: "Are there any songs you released that you wished you didn't?" MJ: "Not that I can think of. Some of the Motown songs, the early songs, I remember getting upset with the songwriters cause I wanted to sing them one way and they wanted me to sing it another way. And I would call Barry Gordy, who is the chairman/owner of the company. He would say, 'Look, let Michael do what he wants, I'm sure he's right'.

Question: "Was the atmosphere between the Motown stars competitive or friendly?" MJ: "Very friendly. Marvin Gaye used to come to my house at least twice a week to play basketball with my brothers. Stevie Wonder would come by for gatherings and parties, and I would go to the Supreme's house and Diana Ross would invite the other girls over and it was really sincerely one happy family. We would have a baseball team where we played against one another, and I was just really little but they let me bat, and it was really a happy family and I do miss all of them--even the Temptations, they would come over to my house all the time.

Question: "Are you going to retape the HBO special you cancelled last year, and if so, when?" MJ: "Yes, we're planning on doing that in South Africa."

Question: "Have you ever been scared to go on stage?" MJ: "No, I don't remember ever being afraid to go on stage. I'm more comfortable on stage than giving this interview right now!"

Question: "Are you going to be doing any concerts here in the United States?" MJ: "I'd like to - we're planning on it next year."

Question: "Do you ever plan on working with Quincy Jones again?" MJ: "I would love to work with Quincy again. The doors are always open. We're very friendly with each other. But I just like challenging and going different things and experimenting. He's a very endearing person and I do love him very much."

Question: "If you could spend one day in complete anonymity, where would you go and what would you do?" MJ: "Probably go to Neverland, or an island isolated somewhere. What would I do - probably write music or kind of create some music or stage play or something - something creative. I never stop working."

Question: "Does the real Billie Jean know about the song and if she did what was her reaction?" MJ: "There is a girl named Billie Jean, but it's not about that Billie Jean. Billie Jean is kinda anonymous. It represents a lot of girls who used to - they used to call them groupies in the 60's - they would hang around backstage doors and any band that would come to town they would have a relationship with. And I think I wrote this out of experience with my brothers when I was little. There was a lot of Billie Jean's out there. Every girl claimed that they're song was related to one of my brothers."

Question: "Which songs of yours are autobiographical?" MJ: "Stranger in Moscow, Heal the World, We Are the World, I'll Be There. Those type of songs."

Question: "What inspired the song Stranger in Moscow?" MJ: "I wrote that in Moscow. The lyrics are totally autobiographical. When you hear lines like 'Here abandoned in my fame..Armageddon of the brain'--at the time, on the last tour when we were in Moscow--that's really how I felt. It kinda created itself; it fell into my lap, because that's how I was feeling at the time. Just all alone in my hotel and it was raining and I just started writing it." Molly Meldrum Interview Tuesday, 19 November 1996 Australia

Molly: Well, Michael, I can finally welcome you to Australia, and whether you like it or not, being the King of Pop and the biggest recording star in the world, what is your philosophy of staying at the top?

Michael Jackson: Boy, I think being humble and believing in yourself and having true love in your heart for the world and really trying to help people through lyrics and the love of music and dance because I truly do love people very much.

Molly: Realising that, but does it not put pressure on you, I mean that you have to be...

Michael Jackson: Well it always

Molly: ...and they hold you in such esteem.

Michael Jackson: Well it always does. The next album has to be better than the other. [laughs]

Molly: Well how do you cope with all the hysteria? I mean wherever you go, whether its London, whether its Munich, whether its New York, whether its Bangkok, whether its Japan and even here in Australia, how do you cope with the hysteria?

Michael Jackson: Umh...I know its all love, so it makes my heart very happy and I like to give it back, you know through however I can give and it uh puts a smile on my face to see all the children and all the teenagers and the adults, the demographics. It makes my heart very happy, I love them, I love all the fans very much.

Molly: Well coping with the hysteria, I mean I can't cope with it, I mean watching all this going on around, I mean the press have been absolutely manic, its been manic mania. Can I ask you, do you ever relax? Does Michael Jackson ever relax? Cause I know you're a workaholic.

[Michael smiles]

Michael Jackson: Yes, I am a workaholic. Uh, I don't relax really, I don't sleep a lot, I like to continually...... my mind never stops. I'm always creating. I never stop. But, I love a good water balloon fight or you know playing around, goofing off, nintendo games, arcades.

Molly: Now Michael, I have to ask you this question. Being possibly the biggest profile in the world, um I guess Princess Diana matches you, you read all these amazing stories about Michael Jackson. I mean I don't know whether they're true or not. You read that Michael Jackson's a weirdo, you read that Michael Jackson's bizarre, you read that he's done this, he's done that. Now I know some of those stories are not true because even I was accused of being at your wedding, and I knew that wasn't true. But how do you cope, how do you feel about all these stories that are written about you?

Michael Jackson: it's very sad, I just want the fans to know and to understand that is not the truth... 99.9% of it is not the truth. And don't read it, don't believe it, it's garbage. It's tabloid junk, I mean they just simply make it up for greed and money.... so please don't listen to it... it's trash.

Molly: Alright now, there's one more question I've gotta ask you... it's about a personal friend of yours..... but I have gotta ask you this question....

[Michael looks sternly at Molly]

Molly: .... I am a Stephen King fanatic I have every book ....

Michael Jackson: (laughs)

Molly: ....that possibly Stephen King has written, um... you can say mind your own business. And I know you've done Ghosts with him and I think that's a sensational piece of work.

Michael Jackson: thank you

Molly: .. did you enjoy doing that...

Michael Jackson: Very much .. yes.. yes

Molly: I mean that skeleton blew me right out

Michael Jackson: Where you there at the premiere?

Molly: No but I 've seen it at home

Michael Jackson: ooohhh

Molly: It is just amazing. Can I ask you what is Stephen King like?

Michael Jackson: Stephen King is a very gentle sweet kind man I mean the profile that we see... the books, with his works... he's nothing like that. He's very humble.

Molly: Right.

Michael Jackson: ahhh... A lot of people judge me the same way. I'm pretty simple... I love to create. I love to make magic. I love to create the unexpected. You know. And Stpehen... He's just wonderful, he's not bizarre or strange or weird. He's a loving person.

Molly: And great to work with?

Michael Jackson: Great to work with. Together, he and I wrote GHOSTS and had fun doing it.

Molly: Alright now, listen, I never normally asks for autographs. But this is a Stephen King book and it's called Insomnia, and I'm sure over the last week I've had no sleep....

Michael Jackson: (laughs)

Molly: ... with the Michael Jackson thing. Can you sign this book of Stephen King for me?

Michael Jackson: Sure ... Sure.. (takes book and signs)

Molly: Thanks very much.

Michael Jackson: Thank you Molly.

Molly: Enjoy Australia.

Michael Jackson: Thank you.

Molly: and we look forward to more work from Michael Jackson, more records...

Michael Jackson: Thank You.

Molly: and being the biggest star if not the biggest star in the world, and entertaining everyone,

Michael Jackson: All my love to everyone, thank you

Molly: Thank you. Arabic Interview 1996

Below is a transcript of a videotaped interview of Michael answering questions from a group of children, ages 7 to 12 years old. The interview took place in the middle-east, probably Casablanca or Tunisia, in 1996. Most questions were posed to him in Arabic, so the transcript shows the subject of the questions, rather than an actual quote. Michael's answers are English, with Arabic subtitles shown on screen, and his answers are transcribed here word-for-word.

For the majority of the interview, Michael is the only person shown on camera, answering questions. There is also a part where he stands in front of the group of children, some of them ask him questions in English.

During the interview, Michael sits on a white couch, dressed in a black and red baseball jacket, black hat, hardly any make up, no sunglasses, no mask. Michael appears very relaxed and 'talks' with his hands, his gestures underlining what he is expressing. His face is also very expressive.

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Question: about musical influences Michael: I have been influenced by, uh, pretty much by cultural music from all over the world. I have studied personally all kinds of music, you know, from Africa to India, to Chinese, Japanese, music is music and it is all beautiful. So, I am influenced by all of those different cultures.

Question: about racism Michael: It is cruelty, it's ugly and I hate it. You are my brother (points out to the children). They are my brothers. If you are black, white, Arab.... we are all the same. I love all races equally.

[Michael now stands in front of the group. Has taken off his coat and hat. Dressed in black shirt and jeans. His hair looks like the hair in the TDCAU video shot in Brazil.]

Question: A girl about 11 or 12 years old asks a question but only the word "Arabs" is audible. Michael: Is it true that I WHAT? Question [girl]: That you do not like Arabs? Michael: No that's not true at all. I love Arabs, I love ALL people of the world. That´s a good example now of people make up stories that are not true.

[A little boy in the group, about 7 years old , introduces himself by his name and says that he is from Egypt. ]

Question [boy]: Would you ever do a concert in Egypt? Michael: I love to do a concert in Egypt. I would love the next tour to go to all of your cities. I have only been there at the airport, but it looks like they are wonderful people. (Michael gives a big smile and points his arm to the group of kids) All of you are wonderful people. I am happy to be here.

[Michael sits on the sofa again, hat and baseball jacket back on]

Question: about family wishes. Michael: I am a very family oriented person and I come from a family of ten * children, so I am very used to a family, you know.... surrounding, to come around you as a unity. So I don´t think I can live without that bond. So I would love to have a major...... (Huge smile from ear to ear) a huge family. I´d say a total of twelve.... (bigger smile) .. My aunt had 13 children, I have an uncle who had 12 children, and my father had 10 children, and so eh.. I looove big...... everywhere...

Question: about his audiences. Michael: I can... You can feel the audience. It is love we are talking about. Ooh, you can definitely feel them, that... You hear them, they are swaying and screaming and fainting, the reactions are always lovely....

Question: About creating music (possibly asked about collaborating with others) . Michael: A thought, it is an embryo of a thought, of an idea. It is a brief concept. And then you collaborate with someone. Could be a writer. I say, I want to do this, I want to do that, and I want to do this. You tell him to develop it, because you..... I cannot do it right now, because I got to go on to the next song, the next thing. So they´ll come up with something, working with their ideas and they´ll come with them back to me ... you go [to see] whether you like it or not. I mean I have done that with pretty much everything that I have done. I am usually there for the concept for the writing. I co-write usually all my pieces that I do.

Question: it is not clear what the question was. Michael: The Garden of Eden was probably in Africa, I am pretty sure. And the people could not have been nicer. (he refers to his visit to South Africa in July 1996 where he attended Mandela´s birthday). And I loved it. I loooooved it. And the music, ooooh, and the rhythm [he looks like he is in awe]. Seeing petty little kids with the perfect rhythm and .. the way they moved their little bodies. [Michael imitates their dance movements with his arms and shoulders]. I was just....Oooh I was amazed. It was GREAT! They gave me everything. They showered me with gifts. You know, clothing, food. And in the hotel... I was in this hotel, right? Big, big, hotel. It had a bowling alley, it had a big game room, big swimming pool. But when I would look out of my window, as far as I could see, there would be people. They even would sleep out there, waiting for me. They would sleep out there!!! All day long they would stand there. At night they would be out there waiting for me. It was just..... They could not have been sweeter. And I loved it. And I am thinking about buying a house there in Africa.

Question: About Heal the World. Michael: With Heal the World we have helped millions, hm, and as we speak we are looking at a hospital in New Jersey. That would be the first Michael Jackson hospital and we would like to make these, throughout the world. That is our goal and our mission. And I hate the word orphanage, but pretty much a housing for a unity of people that are in need, you know.. This is pretty much where my heart is and I would love to continue doing it. [this was obviously a topic Michael is very passionate about, you could see it in his body language]. End of interview. OK Magazine Interview April 4 & 11, 1997

Michael permitted 'OK' magazine (a British mag) to publish photographs of his first born baby boy, Prince Michael Jackson Jr. An interview with Michael and Debbie accompanied the photo spread.

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The King Of Pop And His Little Prince

Interviewer: Michael, how does it feel to be a father?

Michael: It was an incredibly joyful experience. I'm in bliss 24 hours a day.

Interviewer: Can you talk us through the birth of your son?

Michael: It's hard to take it step by step, but the snapshots inmy mind from the birth show our excitement and nervousness. Debbie was so strong throughout the delivery. There were shouts of joy when the baby was born. I couldn'tbelieve the miracle I had witnessed. It was unbelievable!

Interviewer: Michael, describe the relationship between yourself and Debbie?

Michael: Debbie and I love each other for all the reasons you will never see on stage or in pictures. I feel for the beautiful, unpretentious, giving person that she is, and she fell for me, just being me.

Interviewer: Debbie, what are you current feelings for Michael?

Michael: I love him even more now than before our son was born. Fatherhood has brought out a very protective streak in him. He is so loving and strong.

Interviewer: What is the boy's name? Why is he so named -- and which of you does he look like the most?

Michael: His name is Prince Michael Junior. My grandfather and great-grandfather were both named Prince, so we have carried on that tradition, and now we have a third Prince in the family.

Debbie: He's so beautiful! I think he has my eyes.

Interviewer: Michael, among all your life's glittering achievements, how does fatherhood rate?

Michael: Words can't describe it. There is no miracle in life that compares with watching your son some into the world.

Interviewer: Has the baby smiled or responded in any way to the two of you yet?

Michael: He smiles all the time and his eyes twinkle when I sing to him. He definitely knows my voice. Debbie tickles his chin and he giggles.

Interviewer: Debbie, does Michael change the baby's nappies, get up in the middle of the night to feed him and do his share of the chores?

Debbie: Yes, Michael does everything. He loves being involved in every aspect of caring for the baby. He is such a wonderful father, feeding him, holding him, and, of course, singing to him.

Interviewer: Debbie, you have married and had a baby with the most famous man on earth. What effect has that had on you?

Debbie: I have married and had a baby with the man I will always love and I am on top of the world. The only time I feel sad is when I see quotes attributed to me that I never said or when I hear late night comedians taking cheap shots at my husband when they are not true. Don't believe 99% of the garbage you read or hear. I know that we will be under increasing public scrutiny and I don't look forward to that, but I know that will always be a part of being married to Michael.

Interviewer: Michael, you so rarely give interviews. What is the one thing you would like to say to your fans at this time?

Michael: Thank you to all of my fans for understanding how important it is to me to protect my family from the public eye. I have lived in a "fishbowl" all my life and I want my son to live a normal life. You've stood by me throughout my career and now you share my greatest joy. I love you.

OK - Part 2 - Interviewer: Michael, what are your hopes for Prince Michael Junior’s future?

Michael: I want him to grow up surrounded by love and family, to receive the best education I can provide him with, to discover and develop his talents, and to use his resources to make life better for those less fortunate than he.

Interviewer: Are you preventing Debbie from seeing the child?

Michael: No, that is completely false. We have been together as a family since the birth of our son, and we've cherished every moment as a family.

Interviewer: Michael, what has been your family's reaction to the birth?

Micheael: They are all very excited. I'm already getting lots of tips and advice about schools and such.

Interviewer: What sort of dad will you try to be?

Michael: The best! My father was always there for us through the stardom of the Jackson Five and through many of the ups and downs that followed. I, too, will always be there for my son. It's the most important thing in the world to me.

Interviewer: Debbie, what are your family's feelings about Michael?

Debbie: They're crazy about him. They were delighted to discover how warm and genuine he is.

Interviewer: And how would you describe Michael's strengths as a father?

Debbie: He's very patient and protective. He never rushes what he's doing with the baby. I was very proud of how tough he was about our privacy. He's incredibly strong.

Interviewer: Michael, are you still close to your family? How often do you see your parents, brothers and sisters? Have they met your baby yet?

Michael: We talk and see each other all the time. We recently had a big 'get-together' where all the cousins met one another for the first time.

Interviewer: We believe the child's godmother may be Elizabeth Taylor. What is it that draws you to Elizabeth? Many would call it an unlikely friendship. What do you have in common?

Michael: Elizabeth knew many of the things I went through growing up in the spotlight. I can say a few words or just sigh sometimes, and she knows what I'm feeling. It was wonderful to find someone who understood me so well. I pray for her, and I want her to share the joy of my son's birth for many years to come.

Interviewer: What sort of gifts have you received for Prince Michael Junior?

Michael: We've received some fantastic gifts. Wonderful treasures, stuffed animals, toys and baby clothes from around the world. We would like to take this opportunity to thank all my wonderful fans [preach it Michael!] for helping to welcome our baby into the world.

Interviewer: Michael, what are Debbie's strengths as a mother?

Michael: Debbie is a very strong and caring woman. She's a wonderful mother!

Interviewer: Can we expect a song about your son on your new album?

Michael: The birth of my son has been very inspirational to me artistically, and there will definitely be a song in the future.

Interviewer: And one about Debbie, too?

Michael: Any song about my son has to be about Debbie as well. 20/20 Interview With Barbara Walters September 12, 1997 (televised on ABC)

The interview was taped earlier in the week at the George V Hotel in Paris, France and was also broadcast in other countries, such as Germany, The Netherlands, Canada, and Australia. After the interview, Barbara Walters stated on the show The View, that she found Michael to be very charming.

During this interview, Michael seemed more relaxed, less guarded than we have seen him to be in previous interviews. He was animated and expressed a whole spectrum of emotions in the short span of just 20-minutes. From the intonation of his voice to body language and facial expressions, he showed sadness, fear, disgust, anger, humor, resolve, embarrassment, seriousness, happiness, love, pure joy, and delight.

There was another very pleasant surprise - the use of sound effects to enhance his speech. Using his own voice box, Michael casually, but effectively, interjects sounds of things to add emphasis to his narration:

"tch, tch, tch, tch" - automatic camera shutter, snapping photos in quick succession

"vrrrum, vrrrum" - sound effect of a motor scooters' racing engines

"chi ching" - mimicking a light pull switch

MJ = Michael Jackson BW = Barbara Walters HD = Hugh Downs

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Barbara Walters : Up until last week the most photographed people in the world were Princess Diana and Michael Jackson. Now only one remains to talk about what it means to live under that kind of scrutiny. Since the allegations of child abuse made against Michael Jackson four years ago, he has been, if possible, even more pursued. By the way, we checked with the District Attorneys in Los Angeles and Santa Barbara and learned that there is no active case against Mr. Jackson today.

Michael Jackson himself is notoriously shy about giving interviews, but on my way home from covering Princess Diana's funeral, I met with him in Paris to discuss the paparazzi and his personal recollections of the Princess.

When it comes to the paparazzi, Michael Jackson says that he feels a bond with Princess Diana. The paparazzi have been a part of his life since he was a small child, the youngest of the Jackson 5. He has been a superstar for 3 decades. At 39, he continues to sing and dance all over the world ... and the paparazzi follow him all over the world. He has been on a European Tour for the last five months playing for over 2 million people. The night Princess Diana died, Michael Jackson canceled his concert, but his last two concerts were dedicated to her. He does not pretend that she was a close friend. She was a fan.

MJ I met her first at a ... um [clearing his throat] ... concert ... in London. She was very kind ... very loving ... very sweet.

BW: What did you two talk about?

MJ I wrote a song called 'Dirty Diana'. It was not about Lady Diana. It was about a certain kind of girls that hang around concerts or clubs ... you know ... they call them groupies.

BW: Groupies

MJ I've lived with that all my life. These girls ... they do everything with the band ... you know ... everything you could imagine. So I wrote a song called 'Dirty Diana'. But I took it out of the show in honor of her royal highness. She took me away and she said, "Are you gonna do 'Dirty Diana?" So, I said, "No, I took it out of the show because of you." She said, "No! I want you to do it ... do it ... do the song."

BW: So, she had a sense of humor with you.

MJ Yeah, of course. And she told me she was honored to meet me and I said, "It's an honor to meet you."

BW: How did you hear of her death?

MJ Um ... I woke up [in a very soft, reflective voice] ... and my doctor gave me the news. And I fell back down in grief ... and I started to cry. The pain ... I felt inner pain ... in my stomach ... and in my chest. [Michael's voice begins to break slightly]. So, I said, "I can't ... I cannot handle this ... it's too much" ... just the message ... and the fact that I knew her personally. Then on top of that one ... I said, "There's another one ... real soon ... I feel it coming ... there's another one ... it's another one coming and I pray it's not me ... please don't let it be me ... then Mother Theresa came..."

BW: Are you psychic ... is that what you're saying?

MJ I don't want to say that, but I've done it before.

BW: And you thought it might be you?

MJ Yes. [Looking down at his clasped hands] I've been living that kind of life all my life. The tabloid press ... that kind of press .. Not the press ... the tabloids ... the paparazzi ... that type. I've been running for my life like that ... hiding, getting away. You can't go that way cause they're over there ... well let's go this way and pretend we're going that way ... and we'll go that way. Somebody should say, " Hold on! Stop! This person deserves their privacy. You are not allowed to go there!" I go around the world dealing with running and hiding. You can't ... I can't take a walk in the park ... I can't go to the store ... you can't ... I have to hide in the room. You feel like you're in prison.

BW: What's been the most intrusive thing? What's the worst?

MJ They always have been ... they go as far as to hide things into places. They'll slide a machine up under the toilet ... tch, tch, tch, tch [Michael makes a sound effect like clicking a camera] ... and you go, "Oh, my God!" They've done that.

BW: When you came into this hotel, you had to come in ... or you felt you had to come in ... through the kitchen.

MJ I've been doing it for years. In many lobbies, I have never seen the front door. Never.

BW: Did you ever try to outrace the paparazzi?

MJ To outrace them?

BW: Yes

MJ They follow you. They chase us on their scooters [makes another sound effect like a racing engine - vrrrum, vrrrum].

BW: Cutting in front of you?

MJ Yes. And I have to say to the driver ... I say, "Slow down." I jump in and I say, "You're gonna kill us." I say, "Slow down." I've done that many times. "You're gonna kill us." So, he jumps out of the car and yells at these people.

BW: You know, there is that argument that you rely on publicity to sell your albums ... for your concerts ... that you want it.

MJ When I approve of something, yes.

BW: But you can't always control the press. You can't approve of everything. You can't invite them in again and again and then, at a certain point, close them out.

MJ Yes, you can.

BW: Well, how do you do that? What is that line?

MJ By doing that. This is their time for this ... and this you should not do. You should not say, "he's an animal ... he's a ..." You should not say, "he's Jacko." I'm not a "Jacko." I'm Jackson.

BW: How do you feel when they call you ...

MJ Yeah ... Wacko Jacko ... where'd that come from? Some English tabloid. I have a heart and I have feelings. I feel that when you do that to me. It's not nice. Don't do it. I'm not a "wacko."

BW: There are those who would say that you add to the attention.

MJ No, I don't.

BW: Well, the masks ... the mysterious behavior.

MJ There's ... no, there's no mysterious behavior. There's a time ... when I give a concert ... I like to have as many people who want to come can come and enjoy the show. And there's a time when you'd like to be in private ... when you put on your pajamas and go to sleep ... cut out the light [MJ makes a "chi ching" sound effect, to mimic a light pull switch] ... and you lay down ... that's your private space. You go in the park. I can't go in the park, so, I create my own park at Neverland ... my own water space ... my movie theater ... my theme park ... that's all for me to enjoy.

BW: I don't want this to sound insulting. I'm just gonna be straight with you. But You are somewhat eccentric to say the least. The way you dress .. The way you look ... it invites attention. The whole appearance as you grew up was ... larger than life ... more extreme. You don't think that calls the paparazzi to you?

MJ No [shaking his head] ... no ... maybe I like to live that way ... I like to dress that way. I don't want the paparazzi, really. But, if they come, be kind ... write the right ... kind thing to write.

BW: Michael, is it the journalist's role ... or the press's role ... to be kind?

MJ To be kind?

BW: Because the press also sometimes has to look into things ... be tough. It can't always be kind.

MJ [laughing] What you saw ... what happened to Lady Diana ... you tell me. There should be some boundaries ... some kinda way. The star needs some space. Give him a chance to relax. He has a heart ... he's human.

BW: You cancelled the concert you were about to do when you heard of Diana's death.

MJ Yes

BW: And when you finally did a concert, you dedicated your concert to her. What did you say?

MJ In my heart, I was saying, "I love you, Diana. Shine. And shine on forever ... because you are the true princess of the people." And in words, I did not say it ... but I said it for three minutes in showing a big picture on all the jumbotron screens ... Sony, big huge screens ... and her picture was there, shining. And the crowd went bananas ... [sound effects of the crowd noises]. I played the song 'Smile' and 'Gone Too Soon.'

BW: Give us some of the lyrics, if you can.

MJ Shiny and sparkly and splendidly bright ... here one day ... gone one night ... Gone too soon.

[Commercial break]

BW: You have said, "I grew up in a fishbowl. I will not allow that to happen to my son." Yet, when your son was born, you sold pictures to the National Enquirer and to other European papers, tabloids. Why did you do that?

MJ Why?

BW: Why?

MJ Because, there was a race. There were some illegal pictures out. Illegally, somebody had taken pictures of a baby ... and millions of dollars ... said, "here's Michael's son."

BW: And it wasn't, as I recall.

MJ And it wasn't. So, I took the pictures of the baby. I said, "they're forcing me to get his picture." There's helicopters flying above us ... flying over my house ... flying over the hospital ... um ... machines and satellites all over. Even the hospital said, "Michael, we've had every kind of celebrity here ... but we've never had it like this. This is unbelievable." And, so, I said, "here ... take it." And I gave the money to charity.

BW: So, rather than ... in a sense, what you are saying is ... what you did was to get them off your back.

MJ Yeah ... and now they want to do it again ... and I don't want ... maybe I don't want to show him to the world like that. I want him to have some space ... where he can go to school. I don't want him to be called "wacko jacko." That's not nice. They call the father that. That isn't nice ... right?

BW: You said you don't want your child to be called "wacko jacko's son." [lowering her eyes, obviously unhappy at having to repeat the hurtful appellation] How are you going to prevent it ... so they don't do it to him?

MJ That's the thing ... that's the idea. Maybe you should come up with a plan to help me.

BW: You're his daddy.

MJ There you go. They created that. Did they ever think that I would have a child one day ... that I have a heart? It's hurting my heart. Why pass it on to him?

BW: Do you like being a father?

MJ I love it. [No hesitation and a big smile]

BW: Are you very involved with him?

MJ [laughing] Yes.

BW: Do you want more children?

MJ Yes [with an embarrassed laugh].

BW: You have been in the spotlight since you were a baby yourself.

MJ Yes.

BW: If your son showed talent ... by the way does he show any talent at nine months?

MJ Well, I'll tell you this much ... when he's crying ... to keep him from crying, I have to do one thing.

BW: What?

MJ I have to stand in front of him ... and dance.

BW: Really?

MJ Yes. And he stops crying. His tears turn to laughter ... and he's happy [with a clap of his hands], he smiles.

BW: And do you do your moonwalk with him?

MJ Yeah ... I do all kind of movements [abrupt movements in imitation of his dances] ... [laughs] ...

BW: And then he stops crying?

MJ And then he stops crying.

BW: You must do a lot of dancing.

MJ [Laughing louder] I do a lot of dancing, yes.

BW: Michael, if this little boy says, "Daddy, I want to go on the stage?"

MJ [Peels of laughter as his hand slaps his leg]

BW: After what you've been through?

MJ I would say, "Hold on, now. Hold on. If you do go that way, expect this ... expect that ... expect this ... expect that." [Counting on his fingers]

BW: You'd lay it all out?

MJ I'd lay it all out. "See you're gonna get all this [pointing to one of the camera positions] ... and all this [pointing to another camera position] ... and all this [pointing to a third camera position.] You ready to do that?" [If he says] "Yeah, I can't wait." Then I would say, "Go... and do it better than I did."

BW: But know what you're in for ...

MJ Know what you're in for.

BW: Our interview was over. We had told no one it was happening, nor had the Paris hotel. But when Jackson tried to sneak out through a back door, there was a huge crowd ... already waiting.

HD: Barbara, we know now that Diana did not have adequate protection on that last day. What kind of protection did Michael Jackson have?

BW: Well, we saw at least four bodyguards ... and he needed them. And, by the way, I talked with a female superstar and she told me that when she goes out, she has four bodyguards, at least ... and a car in front of her ... and a car behind.

HD: That's what they need really, isn't it?

BW: Unfortunately, it is.

HD: Now, you told me that he told you why he only wears one glove.

BW: Yes.

HD: What's behind that?

BW: Well, he has a sense of humor, as I think you could see. He said, "Why one glove? Cooler than two." Life Magazine Interview

"The King As Pop" - From LIFE Magazine (1997)

You have two nurses, three chefs and a doting dad. You have a petting zoo, two locomotives and a full-scale amusement park - all in your backyard. And, oh yes, your godparents are Elizabeth Taylor and Macaulay Culkin. So you've got that going for you.

On the other hand, your dad wears sequins and a hat when changing your diaper and has been known to grab his privates in front of thousands. Your mom has to commute to visit you, sometimes across the globe. And even as a celebrity fetus you got no respect: Your pop-star pop felt compelled to issue a press release insisting you weren't the product of artificial insemination.

Welcome to Earth, Prince Michael Joseph Jackson Jr.

The bright-eyed, beaming Prince is genuinely good natured, prone to wide, if toothless, jack-'o-lantern grins. Tonight, however, he is Mr. Whimper - due to the merciless popping of flashbulbs. The boy of beige -and-olive cheek, with a hint of spit curl, sobs for several minutes. His nurses, in white NEVERLAND VALLEY uniforms, brandish rattles to little avail. The Dad tries, stroking bony fingers tentatively against his child's face: "If he cries, and then you dance, he'll stop at once." But Michael's not in a particularly moonwalky mood. "C'mon, look, look. Mmm," Michael says, hazarding a hum. "He loves anything rhinestone." So Dad quickly dons a bangled jacket. But the Prince blubbers on.

His cries sound mama-like, even at nine months. Indeed, his cries seem part reproach. Everywhere, throughout the 25-room home, Mom is eerily absent. The house, with games and knicknacks piled in stairwells and nooks, has an edgy abandon, as if a teenager and his friends have been left in charge and the real parents are about to burst in - back from vacation - and throw a fit. Even now, after returning from an African tour Michael is here in Neverland with his boy, yet Debbie is in L.A., 150 miles southeast. When asked why Mom's away, Michael cryptically attributes it to some unspecified aspect of - yes - a second pregnancy. He says, in a delighted whisper, "There's a new one on the way."

Michael, 39, is well aware that his is not exactly a nuclear family. "It's very hard," he explains, faulting his performance schedule for their long distance marriage. "We haven't been able to spend time as a family. Not at all." Debbie Rowe, 38, who has kept her one-bedroom Van Nuys apartment, reportedly told intimates she was carrying Michael's first child as a "favour to a friend". Since then, she has admitted in a TV interview: "I don't need to be there...It's not my duty. And (Michael) understands that. And he understands that I need my independence." Citing Michael's constant attention to Prince's every need, she said, "I'd have nothing to do."

Michael's choice of partners, confidants and playmates has never been conventional. He has long sought the company of other former child stars, like Taylor and Culkin, or star's children, such as first wife Lisa Marie Presley, whom he divorced last year. He has befriended young boys and girls. (Charges of child molestation in 1993, never proven, were dropped after he reached a multimillion-dollar-out-of-court settlement with the family of the 13-year-old accuser.) "Celebrities have to deal with this," is all he will say on the subject, adding dismissively, "I'm not the first who's gone through it. It's horrible." Debbie has remarked of the accusations: "I wouldn't leave our child there...if I even suspected any of them were true."

Despite the time they spend apart, Michael has found a kindred soul in Debbie. A free spirit who fancies Harleys and animals (one tabloid reported that she arranged for chemotherapy for one of her dogs), she met Michael at his dermatologist's, where she was a medical assistant, during his treatment for a skin condition. After they became friends, Debbie twice offered to bear his child. And once his divorce from Lisa Marie was finalized, Michael surprised her by accepting. They were married in a secret Australian ceremony last November. They do spend time together, of course, often watching cartoons or big-screen projections of Three Stooges shorts. "We laugh, hold the baby," Michael says. "She's come out on the tour a lot."

But there is one subject to which Michael repeatedly returns during four hours of conversation and picture-taking: Lisa Marie Presley.

Michael's voice quickens, even quavers, when he speaks of Lisa Marie. How she enjoys the baby. How they are still close after an amicable divorce. How they frolicked overseas the month before. He seems to pine for her. "Lisa Marie was just with me in Africa," Michael says. "We (went to) IMAX theaters, simulated-ride safaris, dinner. We went parasailing. It was wonderful." Even Debbie has acknowledged that Michael is still smitten. "He cares about her very much, but it didn't work out and he was devastated," she has said. "He loved her very much. Still does."

When asked if Lisa Marie has ever expressed second thoughts about not having been the one to bear his son, Michael insists, "She regrets it. She said so." Would she still consider having a kid with him? "She'd like to, yes," he says putting a mischievous finger to his lips. "Shh."

Michael turns the conversation to what makes him happiest nowadays: "The baby, writing music and making movies." He's planning a film version of J.M Barrie's Peter Pan fable, having been mislead, he says, by Steven Speilberg, who he believes reneged on an offer to cast Michael in Hook six years ago. "I worked on the script, writing songs, for six months," says Michael. "And they let me down. I was so heart broken. Steven Speilberg admitted later it was a mistake. I was torn. He put me through a lot. We're friends now, though." What Michael dreads most, he says, is continuing a life on the road. "I love to entertain," he admits,"but I don't like the system of touring. You're jet-lagged. You're sleepy on stage. I don't know where I am half the time. I may not tour again. Ever."

Besides, for now, Michael has his glove full with this bundle of Jackson. Especially with bedtime beckoning. His T-shirt mottled with faint baby-food stains, he cradles Prince in the crook of his arm, placing a lavender pacifier in his mouth. The baby drifts into his own little Neverland. After several minutes, Michael hands the child to a nanny and slips away to his own bedroom - a floor below and a wing away.

To enter Michael's bedroom, one has to pass under the interlocked fingers of two life- sized figurines on pedestals - a Boy Scout and a little girl wearing a British bobby's hat, the pair arching a London Bridge above the door. Inside, toys, gadgets and books sprout in every alcove. Michael's latest Grammy gleams on the fireplace mantel. Peter Pan paraphernalia adorns three walls; arcade-scale consoles, including Nintendo 64, dominate a recessed cranny. "I can beat all of them," he says with pride.

At first, it is his red and gold throne that stands out amid the clutter. But then one's eyes zero in on Michael Jackson's bed. On it's green brocaded pillows. On the twin stereo speakers mounted near the headboard. On the stark but simple painting of Jesus, in a plain frame, the Sacred Heart blood-red, the eyes penetrating.

And there, on one night stand, rests a framed photograph of Lisa Marie. Not a recent snapshot. Or even a formal portrait. But a picture apparently cut out of a magazine, placed as a child would place it, cock-eyed, in a frame meant to hold a photo twice it's size. A picture of Elvis and his little girl, then only five years old. "This is the age," Michael says, "when I first met Lisa Marie. When her father first came to my concerts. I've known her ever since."

But when Michael lies in his bed, the last thing he sees before he falls asleep is Prince's spare crib, sitting next to an old Peter Pan diorama. It is empty tonight but for the clutch of stuffed animals inside. Still, it's there - ready for those nights when Prince needs his dad.

'Wetten, Dass...?' March 20, 1999 (Saarlandhalle Saarbrücken, Germany)

Michael Jackson appeared on the German tv show 'Wetten, Dass...?' to talk about his project "Michael Jackson & Friends". The show was televised live on tv channel ZDF. 15.87 million viewers (49.8%) watched the show. Michael was on tv for about 9 minutes.

TG: Thomas Gottschalk (show host) MJ: Michael Jackson JM: Jonathan Morrish (head of Sony, UK)

------

[About 150 fans are let into the Saarlandhalle at both sides of the stage. At about 10 p.m. 'We Are The World' video is shown just before Michael appears at the show.

TG: "The King of Pop"! Here is Michael Jackson !!!"

[Michael (MJ) walks in. He is wearing black trousers, a black jacket with a red band on his one arm, a white shirt, black boots and sunglasses. His hair is shoulder length. Thunderous applause, the fans scream for minutes.]

[Michael greets TG and makes a short gesture as to how tall TG is.]

TG: Let’s talk a little bit about the new project...

[They walk over to the couch where the other show guests are sitting. TG sits down but MJ waves to the fans so TG gets up again. The fans are still screaming so that a conversation is impossible for minutes. MJ smiles.]

TG: So....Thank you. [to the fans]

MJ: They just can’t stop...

TG: Then....Michael, they don’t listen to me..

[Fans are still screaming so loud that no one can understand a word.]

Today he wants to ...... listen to..... listen to us a little....you over there as well [meaning the second group of fans on the other side of the stage]. Come on....poor Michael would be happy if you listen to him once. He has seen you now. Ok. So....we know you love him. Please think a little of uncle Thomas. I want to ask him some things. Ssshhhht...come on !.... short break!....kids!!!!! Do I have to scold you again??

MJ: [Blows a hand kiss to the fans and points towards them...giggles.]

Give me that picture. Give me that picture. Morrish...gimme that picture.

[Fans start screaming again.]

TG: It’s like being in a pliers. When I have these ones here in the grasp [pointing to the fan group on the left] the ones over there start being loud again. Ok kids. Listen...let’s talk 2 sentences about this new project...... Kids, you don’t know what’s going to come...

[Someone hands over a banner to Michael which reads: "Children's paradise in your heart".]

He has got a new project. There will be 2 big concerts by and with him.... one here in Germany and one in Korea.

[Meanwhile MJ puts the banner to the floor and looks at it.]

Michael, a new project of yours. How did you get the idea for such a project?

MJ: Well...what happened was....

[Fans start to scream again as they hear Michael talk.]

..I am...I....I...

[Fans still screaming so that Michael can’t continue to talk.]

...ahem.....

TG: Okay, tell us...

MJ: I knew I had to do something. I just couldn’t sit back, you know, between now and the millennium and do nothing. And then I had this idea for a song and the words "What more can I give" kept coming. Then I knew I had to do something...ahem...And about the same time.....I was talking to president Mandela and when he invited me to perform that was all the inspiration that I needed.

[Giggles and the fans start screaming again loud so that MJ can’t continue.]

TG: Come on [to the fans]... I will tell you something about it. He will travel to Michael Mand...ääähhh...Nelson Mandela and explain this project to him again. And later on I will talk to representatives of the groups that help him with this project- the Red Cross and the UNESCO.

Michael, in Seoul you’ll meet some of your friends that you invited: Pavarotti, Stevie Wonder, Eros Ramazotti, maybe the Scorpions. We are happy of course that you will come with them to Munich. Are you also looking forward to Munich?

MJ: [The fans are still screaming loud and Michael was watching them while TG was talking. He seems a little confused as TG waits for him to answer the question. It seems that he just missed the question - maybe due to the fans that are still screaming so loud that you can barely understand a word.]

Ahem...Yes....Yes..ahem...

[He seems a little confused about what he is expected to say so he looks around for a known face to help him out. He sees Jonathan Morrish (head of Sony UK) points towards him asking him to come over to the couch.]

Mr. Morrish...he is better equipped than me....from Sony.

[Jonathan Morrish (JM) takes a seat.]

TG: He is the boss of the record company.

MJ: ...and Marcel Avram...

[At the moment Marcel Avram is serving a jail sentence for tax evasion but he was allowed to leave the prison for this occasion. MJ makes signs towards Marcel to come to the couch as well but Marcel doesn’t want to.]

JM: I think there is a....This is a very serious evening! What Michael is doing is enormous. He is giving of himself - he always does. I think he is wanting - There is one important message why he is doing the show in Munich and a show in Korea.

[Meanwhile Michael takes one of the bell flowers which are on the side of the couch as a decoration - the fans start screaming again]

What we all got to remember is the tragedy and suffering at the second world war - a lot of countries got split. Germany unified 10 years ago - that’s why Michael wants to do a show here. The other reason why the show is in Seoul is because ...it’s very important. Michael wants to get the message across that North and South Korea got to unite again. And that’s a very important part of what these twin shows are for that will be done by Michael with the friends that Thomas already announced.

TG: Wonderful! Thank you. Michael couldn’t have said it better. Thank you very much.

[He shakes hands with Michael and wants to discharge him.]

It’s a pleasure. An honour of course. Thank you.

We have.... Michael, do you remember "Wetten, dass...." Remember...you have been with us. A little memory when he sang at "Wetten, dass..." back then.

[They show parts of Michael’s "Earth Song" performance. Michael does some little dance moves to the music. After that he goes over to the fans on the left.]

Just say "Hello".

MJ: [Points at a banner.] Oh...Wayne...Wayne, get that one.... Get that one.... Come on....That one....That one [pointing towards the banner he would like to have].

TG: [TG wants to lead Michael to the exit but Michael just doesn’t want to leave. He is still watching the fans and their banners.]

Thank you for being here. Thank you.

[Nevertheless Michael returns to the fans to get the banner he had pointed at and Teddy Lakis hands it and 2 others over to him. Michael waves to the fans then he looks for the banner he had pointed at and shows it to TG.]

MJ: Very lovely!

TG: Oh.Yes. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Bye-bye.

[Michael walks out with the banner under his arm. TG sits down a chair - absolutely exhausted].

Oh, oh. Oh, I never want to become a legend [meaning the fans].

[Then TG talks to Dr. Peter Walker (chief of the Red Cross) and Dr. Dieter Bärstecher (UNESCO). Both organizations will be involved in the project as well and all the money raised by the concert will be used for charity.

Dr. Walker explains that the Red Cross will use the money that will be raised with the - as he calls it - project "Adventure of Humanity" to finance projects around the world. For example they will send medicine and food to North Korea. Some money will go to Latin America where hurricane Mitch just caused severe damages. Further support will go to Africa, especially war zones like Uganda and Angola, to reunite families that have been separated during war.

Dr. Bärstecher finally adds that the UNESCO will use the money for their "Children in need" program which provides direct help (food, education) for children all over the world.] Interview with The Mirror

Tuesday, 13 April 1999 by Piers Morgan

Part 1 MY PAIN

SUPERSTAR Michael Jackson wept last night as he told The Mirror of his anguish at being branded a child abuser. Speaking publicly for the first time of his private pain, Jacko said: "I'd slit my wrists rather than hurt a child. I could never do that. No-one will ever know how much these wicked rumours have hurt me."

In his first interview with a British newspaper for 20 years, he told of his desperate wish to help the refugee children of Kosovo

Jacko, 40, said: "I feel so sad when I see the pictures of those poor kids. It makes me cry every day. I just want to go over there and hug every one of them."

He has dedicated his new record What More Can I Give? to the refugees and will give all profits to victims of Kosovo's ethnic cleansing. He also plans a star-studded video. Harrods boss Mohamed Al Fayed is helping the project. In his candid talk, Jacko told of his joy at being a dad and his love for wife Debbie.

MICHAEL JACKSON WORLD EXCLUSIVE

THE King of Pop does not give interviews. Michael Jackson does not need to. His astonishing talent has always driven a unique worldwide publicity machine that ensured his status as the biggest star of them all.

But that reclusive silence has had an adverse flip-side. The 40-year-old star has never been able to counter the child-abuse allegations that threatened to wreck his career. He knows a lot of people believe him to be a child molester, a man who seduces and abuses young boys for pleasure.

Yet for years he has said nothing, refusing to go public and reveal himself to the world's media on the record about the issue that has dogged his life. Now he has. With tears streaming down his face, Jackson told me of the terrible pain and hurt he has felt at what he calls "wicked lies and rumours."'

Sitting next to his friend Mohamed Al Fayed at the tycoon's Harrods store in London, Jackson wept uncontrollably as he poured out his anguish about the "evil people who think I could do this thing to children."'

His frankness shocked me. This was not a glib, girlish monosyllabic character hiding behind the famous mask and make-up. This was an intelligent, articulate and mature man. And a man who very clearly bears the emotional scars of a terrible humiliation based on alleged crimes he says he could never commit.

BIZ

It was a curious and bizarre experience hearing the most famous person on the planet crying his eyes out as he defended himself. I've never been sure either way about Michael Jackson and those claims. The parents said he had abused their kids, the kids they'd left alone with him for weeks on end despite the rumours - then walked off with millions of dollars for their troubles. How much more convincing they would have been if they had never taken the money, I've always thought.

What is for sure is that if he IS guilty, he hides it extremely well. Having spoken to him for 40 minutes yesterday, I would say he loves children in a way that few ordinary people can ever match or understand. He puts it simply but devastatingly - "If it wasn't for the children...I'd throw in the towel and I'd kill myself."

The tears start to flow as he explains: "I wouldn't care to live without children and without the inspiration they give me. They inspire me in all I do, every song I write, every dance I perform. People try and use that against me and it's just so unfair. I get very upset by it, it breaks my heart."

Jackson wed US nurse Debbie Rowe in November 1996, after the collapse of his high-profile marriage to Lisa Marie Presley, daughter of rock legend Elvis.

The star is now the proud father of two children of his own - two-year-old Prince Michael, who he has nicknamed Baby Doo-Doo, and one-year-old Paris Michael Katherine, named after the French capital where she was conceived.

His joy at fatherhood is tempered by the knowledge that it hasn't stopped the sneering, the rumors, the nudge-nudge, wink-wink brigade. He says: ";I love my children so much. They have changed me and my outlook on life.

"I just wish people would leave me alone to get on with my life. I'm just a person who wants to be honest and do good, make people happy and give them the greatest sense of escapism through the talent God has given me.

"That's where my heart is, that's all I want to do. Just let me share and give, put a smile on people's faces and make their hearts feel happy. To see my kids leaping round the room going mad to my sister Janet's music is just fantastic. It fills my heart with so much joy.

"As soon as Janet's songs with a good beat like The Knowledge or Rhythm Nation come on they both go crazy.

"You'd think a machine is moving them around."' The star starts to rap out his sister's hits to me, using the desk in front of him as a drum. This is definitely one of those Kodak moments for the grandchildren.

He goes on: "I start singing and there's screaming all over the house.

"I start dancing and Prince is all in the way trying to dance with me. "Jackson never plays his own music to his children - "I'm saving that for a surprise when they are a bit older,"' he smiles. He would love them to go into the entertainment world but he's aware of the dangers.

He says: "It's going to be hard for them. When Lisa-Marie wants to sing, people always compare her to her father, which is so tough.

"Of course, I'd love them to do something in the arts so I could teach them to sing and dance. But they'd have to want to do that without pressure from me."

Jackson is clearly devoted to his own kids. 'He tells me: "They are staying with a friend of mine who I went to school with. We go back a long way.

"My children are with hers having fun which is great. I call them all the time and we have great conversations. Hearing them say 'Dad! Dad!'' is such a thrill."'

Jackson says he has learned a lot about being a father from Al Fayed, a friend for more than 20 years. The two spent Saturday touring the toy department at Harrods and watching Fayed's team, Fulham, play in Division Two.

Jackson says: "Mohamed is a lovely family man and has been giving me some great tips.

"He tells me to be loving, to take time with the children, not to leave them with anybody and to be with them as much as I can.

"To help them grow and let them know you love them by looking them in the eyes, and saying 'I love you.'' And play, play, play with them."' The singer, who spends £3,000 a day on 24-hour nannies, lives apart from Debbie, 40. But he laughs at suggestions his marriage is a sham. He insists: "I love my wife, and we have a happy marriage.

"Debbie is a nurse who loves her work, who loves taking care of people. Every day she wants to get up and look after others, to help them and make them better.

"That's why I love her, and that's what gives her bliss in life, God bless her."'

Debbie - who met Jackson when she worked as a dermatology nurse and treated him for his skin complaint vitiligo - is on record as saying: "Michael is a doting father. I know the children are safe whenever they're with him."

Further discussion about the marriage is not forthcoming. But again, you are left with a sneaking, dreadful feeling that Jackson might actually be telling the truth. That he might genuinely love his wife after all. They may even, incredibly, have had sex.

Jackson has a deep-rooted distrust of the press based on years of sneering treatment by journalists who, he claims, do not understand him.

He frowns as he sighs: "The press are hard on me, especially in England which is a shame because I love it here and would like to live here one day.

"To give you an example, the last time I was here I flew Mickey and Minnie Mouse from Euro Disney to a hospital in London for the sick kids and took them a load of toys and things to cheer them up. The next day's papers said Wacko Jacko Snubs Sick Children.

CRUEL

"That really hurt me - I tried to help those children but people just wanted to make fun of me. It was cruel and unnecessary."'

Jackson's despair at the way he is treated by the media is nothing to his anguish at the tragic events in Kosovo. The tears readily return as he says, "I just want to go to Yugoslavia and hug every one of those children and tell them I love them. The TV footage just breaks my heart. It's just horrifying. I have to turn the set off - it makes me cry every day.

"It's time we did something. It's not enough to turn your head and pretend it doesn't exist. I've written a song for the refugees called What More Can I Give? And I'm going to give all the profits to the Kosovan Albanians.

"I want to do what we did with the people in Africa, get all the celebrities together and sing for those poor families. I'd like to do this in Britain and get the biggest British stars to join me. I want those people to know I love them, that we all love them. They are my family, my children. They desperately need our money now to help them."

Despairing of the world's reaction to Kosovo's plight, he adds: "We are all doing too much sitting back, and reading and watching TV saying how awful it is and not actually doing something about it.

"I'm not into politics and I don't talk about religion. But I think it's totally wrong and ignorant to hurt innocent children over some political or religious issue. It's genocide and ethnic cleansing and it's stupid. It shouldn't be happening."

Part 2. Wednesday 14th April 1999

DIANA CONFIDED IN ME. I TOLD HER: BE STRONG AND BE DEFIANT. THEN NOBODY CAN HURT YOU

For Princess Diana, only one person in the world truly understood what it was like to be a hunted superstar icon

Michael Jackson knew because he was perhaps the only bigger star on the planet. The only person who was better known around the globe than our own English Rose.

Now The Mirror can reveal the extraordinary story of how their shared experience of ultimate fame made them first friends and then confidantes.

By the time Diana was killed they were so close that Jackson spent thousands of pounds a month on the phone chatting to and advising her. Which is why the shocking and sudden nature of her death came as a terrible blow to the pop legend. His eyes brimming with tears, Jackson admitted: "I had a concert on the day the news broke and my doctor woke me up to tell me Diana was dead.

"I literally collapsed, I fainted. He had to give me smelling salts to revive me and I cancelled my show because I simply could not perform.

"I just broke down. I wept and wept for weeks afterwards."

Jackson's grief was made worse by the fact that he was also a friend of Dodi Fayed. "They were a match made in heaven," he says. "I thought they were so beautiful together.

"It was lovely to see them like that. Diana was a wonderful person with such a good heart. She went round the world as a philanthropist just like Mother Teresa. She proved that she really, really cared about people and children especially. The way that I do.

"She used to confide in me. She'd just call me on the phone and we would talk about everything that was happening in her life. The press were hard on her in the same way they were hard on me and she needed to talk to someone who knew exactly what she was going through.

"She felt hunted in the way I've felt hunted. Trapped, if you like. You can't talk about that to your neighbor because how would they ever understand?

"No normal person could possibly understand, could they? I've had that attention since I was a kid, whereas Diana had it suddenly thrust upon her at the age of 19.

"I've had it all my life so I had the experience to tell her how to handle it.

"I just said to her, 'Rise above it all'. I'd tell her how I would go on stage sometimes in the worst pain - either emotionally, or physically with something like a toothache, and I would put whatever it was out of my mind and perform.

"I'd say, 'Be strong and be determined and nobody can hurt you. Only you can hurt yourself - so be defiant'. I think she appreciated it and got something from my words. I think I was able to comfort her.

"I adored Diana. We talked so many times, much more than people realized.

"When I heard about the paparazzi chasing her, I just thought how lucky I was that it had never happened to me because I've been chased the same way so many times and you always wonder.

"Diana's death was the saddest I've ever felt - it reminded me of when Kennedy died. It broke my heart so much, I just cried and cried."

Jackson has never met Princes William and Harry. But he says: "Diana desperately wanted me to meet her children and we talked about it many times, but I never did get the chance.

"Mohamed talks very highly of the boys. He says they are wonderful and he had some good times on holiday with them and Diana. It would be nice to meet them sometime."

Jackson met Dodi many times in Hollywood, where Mohamed Al Fayed's son made films.

He recalls: "He was wonderful, just wonderful. A really smart, charming guy. It was a terrible tragedy for Mohamed and my heart goes out to him and his family."

The friendship between Jackson and Fayed is a curious one, but understandable when you consider the similarities. Both billionaires, both sneered at by the establishment, both lone fighters against what they see as a hostile world.

Jackson says: "Mohamed has taken a lot of flak in this country, which is so unfair. He is one of the sweetest, kindest men you could ever know.

"The problem is that people judge people before they even know them. To me he is like a big Santa Claus. He loves giving; he's very wise and creative, talented and kind- hearted. Very giving.

"He has taught me a lot and I love learning from him."

Fayed treated Jackson to his first-ever soccer match last Saturday, watching his team Fulham in their battle for promotion from Division Two. Jackson clearly loved every minute as he was paraded to the fans and watched the first half with his Fulham scarf wrapped around his neck.

"I knew nothing about soccer and I've never been to any sporting event, so it was a great experience for me.

"I'm a soccer fan now, definitely. I'm addicted. It was so exciting and passionate - the fans were like the people who come to my concerts. They were screaming and shouting and cheering their players on.

"I loved it. I wanted to jump up and start dancing because I'm used to performing on stage when I hear all that noise. The fans were great, although they seemed pretty surprised to see me. I have no doubt that Fulham will be promoted; they seemed a really good team with a great spirit.

"I met all the players and they were so kind to me."

Jackson's legendary business brain sprang into action the moment I mentioned Manchester United.

"I don't know them, but I'd love to get involved with one of the big teams if it was right to do so. How much are they?"

I told him the asking price was around six hundred million.

"Dollars or pounds?"

Pounds. There was a long pause.

"That's interesting, very interesting."

I pointed out that it would be a perfect union since Manchester United are supposed to be the most famous name in the world after ... Michael Jackson. "I'll have a think about that. It sounds intriguing. I'm astounded by how much I enjoyed the soccer, that's for sure."

Jackson's career has been relatively quiet for the past couple of years, but he is planning a massive end to the century.

I have an album coming out for the Millennium, which I'm half way through. It's going to be the best thing I've ever done," he says.

"I'm putting my heart and soul into it because I'm not sure if I'm gonna do another one after this..."

Sorry? Did I hear right? Was the King of Pop quitting? This was an astonishing little titbit.

Yes, I did hear right. He is quitting - making solo albums. "This will be my last album, I think. I may do the odd movie soundtrack, but this will be my last proper album.

"I want it to be something that touches the heart and emotions of the world. From a child to older people, from the farmers of Ireland to the lady who scrubs toilets in Harlem.

"I mean I want to reach every demographic I can through the love and joy and simplicity of music."

He is also planning a sensational reunion with his brothers.

"We are doing an album together, it's legitimate and I'm going to do it. I'll play on three songs and produce the rest. It will be fun." How does Michael Jackson unwind I wondered? His answer was astonishing.

"Well, I've stopped being such a recluse now. My friend Elizabeth Taylor has got me out," he says.

"Every Thursday we go to the movies together. She is Godmother to my son Prince and we get on so well.

"I said I could get Warner Brothers to put aside a studio just for us every week to watch films in private, but she forces me out. She's the only person who can get me out in public.

"We walk in, sit down, watch our film and walk out. And every time we leave the audience all stand up and applaud us. It's funny. The last one we saw was Patch Adams, which we loved. It was so touching it made me cry.

"It's a true story about a man who takes the time to make children happy. That's what I'd like to be considered as.

"The Millennium is an appropriate time to change direction.

"I'd like to get more into movies. Mohamed and I are looking to set up a company and do some films together. It's going to be great."

With that the two billionaires both roar with laughter at the mischief and mayhem they may be getting up to in Hollywood.

Michael Jackson is a curious cove, that's for sure. He's definitely odd. Not quite the full ticket, the entire shopping trolley or even the complete picnic. But he's not the nutter I thought he was before I spoke to him.

He speaks confidently and intelligently, admittedly with a liberal sprinkling of the lovey-dovey outpourings you'd expect from him. He was happy to talk about any issue I raised, and shirked no questions I threw at him. Most people I know have a pretty dim view of Jackson the man, while remaining massive fans of his music. I came away from this encounter feeling I may have misjudged the man, that Michael Jackson is not such a wacko after all. TV Guide Interview December 4, 1999

The Once And Future King We teamed up with MTV to choose The 100 Greatest Music Videos Ever and it's official: Michael Rules! article by Lisa Bernhard

Michael Jackson opens up about his musical legacy, his controversial past and the future.

"With 'Thriller', Michael smashed musical records and reigned over pop music for a decade. In an exclusice interview, he talks about his place in musical history, his embattled personal life and what’s ahead for him.

The legend is almost too large to comprehend but never fails to fascinate. How to make sense of Michael Jackson, a man whose immeasurable talent is often overshadowed by tabloid headlines? The former Jackson 5 lead vocalist rocketed to solo fame with his 1982 album, Thriller (the video of the same name has been declared the greatest ever by TV GUIDE and MTV - see [below]).

Seated in a New York City hotel suite, the notoriously shy pop star is charismatic and bubbly - a regular guy, even - as he discusses future projects, including an as-yet- untitled CD he describes as "happy dance music, relationship stuff," and a reunion album with his brothers. And then there is "The Nightmare of Edgar Allan Poe", a movie in which he will star as the 19th-century writer. Scheduled to shoot next year, Jackson says he’s doing the film because Poe’s "life is very interesting," adding, without irony, "I love an artist who doesn’t play it safe."

TV GUIDE: "Thriller" changed music videos forever. Where did you get the idea?

Michael Jackson: My brother Jackie came to my house and said, "Are you watching this show that's on TV? All they do is play music. It’s MTV." I put it on and thought the concept was very interesting. What I didn’t like were the videos that were a collage of images; I thought that if I were to do one, I would do something with a little more entertainment value. My dream was to make something with a beginning, a middle and an ending, like a short film.

TV GUIDE: Did you ever imagine that 'Thriller' and the videos from the album would catapult your career into the stratosphere?

Michael Jackson: I didn’t really think about how the album would do; I just wanted to create what I would enjoy seeing. And my main goal for [the video] "Thriller" was to do something that would be scary, fun and exciting.

TV GUIDE: How do you look back on that whole era now?

Michael Jackson: I see it as a happy time and a sad time. And an exciting time. Because it made a lot of my dreams come true. The notoriety was wonderful.

TV GUIDE: You also said it was a sad time.

Michael Jackson: Yeah. If I don’t get exactly what I’m looking for, I get very depressed.

TV GUIDE: You mean the album still didn’t live up to what you had envisioned?

Michael Jackson: Not completely.

TV GUIDE: Which songs disappointed you?

Michael Jackson: "Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’." Songwriting is a very frustrating art form. You have to get on tape exactly what’s playing in your head. When I hear it up here ['points to his head'], it’s wonderful. I have to transcribe that onto tape. "The Girl Is Mine" ['his duet with Paul McCartney'] wasn’t completely what I wanted, but it’s very nice. But "Billie Jean" is there. I worked so hard on that. I worked for three weeks on the bass lick alone.

TV GUIDE: The glove, the white socks, the red leather jacket - who came up with those things?

Michael Jackson: The glove was just - I thought one was cooler than two. I love to accent movement. The eye goes to where the white is - you know, the glove. And the feet, if you’re dancing, you can put an exclamation point on your movement if it has a bit of light on it. So I wore the white socks. And for the design of the jacket, I would sit with the people who made the clothes and tell them where I wanted a button or a buckle or a design. But I don’t wear that look anymore. It’s sad to get caught up in the past. That’s why I don’t put awards in my house. No gold records, no Grammys. They’re in storage. I don’t like to be puffed up with pride, ‘cause I’d feel like I don’t have any more things to reach for. And that’s not true.

TV GUIDE: Do you feel like your most creative period is yet to come?

Michael Jackson: I think the best work is coming, but I’d like to go into other areas, not keep doing album after pop album.

TV GUIDE: Are there artists that are doing interesting things musically?

Michael Jackson: There are some wonderful creative ideas, but I don’t think anybody’s being innovative. They’re mostly grabbing the old and trying to integrate it with the new.

TV GUIDE: Is there anyone you’d like to work with?

Michael Jackson: There are a lot of artists I admire, but no.

TV GUIDE: What is your favorite music?

Michael Jackson: You’d be shocked. This morning I was singing Rodgers and Hammerstein. That’s the stuff I sing around the house - "My Favorite Things" from "The Sound of Music," and "Absent Minded Me," that Streisand song. I’m also a fan of the great old MGM musicals. I love show tunes. I’m a big fan of melody.

TV GUIDE: What’s your favorite song to perform?

Michael Jackson: "Billie Jean," but only when I don’t have to do it the same way. The audience wants a certain thing. I have to do the moonwalk in that spot. ['Laughs'] I’d like to do a different version.

TV GUIDE: Who’s your audience today?

Michael Jackson: I don’t know. I just try to write wonderful music; and if they love it, they love it. I don’t think about any demographic. [The record company] tries to get me to think that way, but I just do what I would enjoy hearing.

TV GUIDE: Is there a new Michael for the new millennium?

Michael Jackson: Yeah, I have a couple of things planned. I think it’s going to be totally different from what I did before. There’s a song on the new album called "I Have This Dream." It’s a millennium song about the world and the environment that I cowrote with Carole Bayer Sager and David Foster.

TV GUIDE: Do you think you will tour again?

Michael Jackson: I don't think so. It takes a lot out of me.

TV GUIDE: You rarely travel in public without a disguise. Why?

Michael Jackson: I don’t see any other way. I’ve tried everything. ['Laughs'] Fat suits. Nuns. Clowns. Trick or treat is the best for me. And Mardi Gras.

TV GUIDE: Do you think you’ll ever be able to walk around freely just as yourself?

Michael Jackson: I do disguises for different reasons. I like to study people - be like the fly on the wall. Even if it’s two old ladies sitting on a bench or some kids on a swing. Because I don’t know what it’s like to fit in an everyday life situation. One time I was in a record store, completely disguised, and these girls were pulling out my album, talking all about me. I was literally next to them. It was wonderful. I loved it. But if I go out as myself, I can’t have fun. People always say, "Why don’t we just go to a party?" Soon as I step in, the party’s over - for me. It’s a party for them but they’re all putting their cards in my face, saying, " Remember me? I met you four years ago at ..." And I say, "I don’t remember." So I can’t enjoy the experience. They play all my songs. I didn’t come to hear my music. And everybody starts chanting, "Dance!" "Well, I want to see 'you' dance for a change."

TV GUIDE: Do you think, given all the negative press that you’ve had, that people will judge you solely on your music?

Michael Jackson: I don’t think so. ‘Cause [the press] has made me out to be this monster, this crazy person who’s bizarre and weird. I’m nothing like that.

TV GUIDE: Is there anything you can do to change that impression?

Michael Jackson: Well, all I can do is be myself and create from my soul. But they take that and manipulate it.

TV GUIDE: But what will make you seem OK to people who think, He’s weird, he has exotic animals in his house or-

Michael Jackson: God created animals. And they’re loving, they’re beautiful. I feel the way [anthropologist] Jane Goodall does, or any of those naturalists. I don’t find my interest in animals weird or strange at all.

TV GUIDE: What about the plastic surgery?

Michael Jackson: All of Hollywood has plastic surgery! I don’t know why they point me out. The press exaggerated it. It’s just to my nose, you know. They want it to be everything. Just the nose isn’t enough. Elvis had his nose done - Lisa Marie ['Presley, to whom Jackson was married from May 1994 to January 1996'] told me. They don’t talk about that. They single me out. It’s not fair.

TV GUIDE: OK, well, now that you bring up Lisa Marie, I read that you said she regrets not having had your son and that she may still want to have a child with you. Is that true?

Michael Jackson: Well, I remember that’s how she felt at the time. ['Laughs'] No matter what I say, I’m in trouble with this question- the next issue [of TV GUIDE] will probably say, "Well, Lisa said she doesn’t ever want to see him again!"

TV GUIDE: Are you two friends now?

Michael Jackson: Lisa’s sweet. I like her very much, and we are friends. And who knows what tomorrow brings? I have no idea how she feels today. I’ll just say that. She comes to my house and sees the children, and we talk on the phone, that sort of thing.

TV GUIDE: Do you think you’ll marry again?

Michael Jackson: That would be nice.

TV GUIDE: What would make the third time the charm?

Michael Jackson: It just has to hit me. You have to see that person and go, "This is it. This is the one."

TV GUIDE: Did you feel that way with both of your marriages? [Jackson’s second wife, Debbie Rowe, whom he wed in November 1996, filed for divorce in October 1999.]

Michael Jackson: Yeah. Of course.

TV GUIDE: Do you wish you were still married?

Michael Jackson: Yeah, I do. But you have to do what’s best. What happens happens. You have to respect that.

TV GUIDE: Who are your closest friends?

Michael Jackson: Elizabeth [Taylor], for sure. We go to the movies every Thursday.

TV GUIDE: You go to a regular movie theater?

Michael Jackson: : I want to go to the Warner Bros. studio, and she refuses. She says, "No, I’m getting you out." So we go right into this area- which I can’t say - and walk right in. And it’s usually empty, because [most] people are working at the time. [The theater employees] go, " Wow, come on in," and we never really pay. And we’re the ones that can afford it. ['Laughs']

TV GUIDE: Let’s talk about your kids [Prince Michael, 2, and Paris Katherine, 1]. I have to ask about this business in the papers recently about you and Debbie not being the biological parents of your children - that she was implanted with another woman’s egg and then impregnated by artificial insemination.

Michael Jackson: That’s total garbage. It’s just trash and not true.

TV GUIDE: Do the kids live with you at Neverland?

Michael Jackson: They were at Neverland two weeks ago. I think they realized for the first time that it’s their home. They used to always think it was some hotel resort. We stay in hotels everywhere. They didn’t realize that the train and the train station are for them, and those rides are for them. Now they go, " We want to go to Neverland!"

TV GUIDE: What are their personalities like?

Michael Jackson: Prince tells me all day that he has to make movies. So I bought him this video camera, I say, "What are we doing this time?" He goes, "Star Wars." So we put some figures on the table, make them move. And Paris is just now starting to talk and walk. She’s very sweet. And I’m surprised she loves dolls. My sister Janet didn’t like that sort of thing. She was a tomboy. I thought [Paris] was going to be like that, but she isn’t.

TV GUIDE: And you’re changing their diapers and feeding them?

Michael Jackson: Yeah, I love it. It’s a lot of work. I thought I was prepared ‘cause I read everything about child rearing, but it’s so much more exciting than I ever imagined it would be. The only regret I have is that I wish I had done it earlier.

TV GUIDE: Do you sing and dance for them?

Michael Jackson: That’s how I keep them quiet it they’re crying. If I just start dancing, they shut down.

TV GUIDE: Do you want to have more kids?

Michael Jackson: Definitely. I told my father [Joe] I’m going to match his record. He had 10.

TV GUIDE: What is your relationship with your father like now? You were estranged from him for a while.

Michael Jackson: I have the best relationship now that I’ve ever had with him. I think with age and time he’s really mellowed out to become a nice person. He’ll simply say to me, "How are you doing? Are you eating? That’s all I wanted to know." Not, "Did you sign that contract?" He just wants to know if I’m OK. I think that’s really nice ... And my mother [Katherine] is like the perfect angel.

TV GUIDE: At 41, are you happy?

Michael Jackson: Well, I usually am happy. I don’t let anything get me down, no matter what. I like to hear the sound of water and birds chirping and laughter, you know. I love all the real, natural, innocent things. I would never go to a party or a club. I did that when I was a kid, and I don’t care to do that anymore.

TV GUIDE: I found it jarring to read a recent quote in which you said that if it weren’t for your desire to help the children of the world, you’d throw in the towel and kill yourself. Do you really feel that way?

Michael Jackson: I always have. ‘Cause I would feel I have nothing to live for.

TV GUIDE: Not even for yourself and your own creativity?

Michael Jackson: I wouldn’t care. Everything I create is inspired by that kind of innocence. And nature, it’s everything. It has to be. I mean, that’s it.

------

100 Greatest Music Videos Ever Made by Rob Tannenbaum

1 - Thriller Michael Jackson, 1983 John Landis, Director

Why is this the most ambitious video ever made? For starters, the nearly 14-minute mini film boasts director Landis ("Animal House"), with other top Hollywood talent creating the special effects and musical score. The layered plot shifts several times: from a corny 1950s werewolf movie to a B-Movie dream about zombies to a trick ending that leaves Jackson's identity unresolved. This tangled movie-within-a-dream-within-a-video conceit radically reimagined the boundaries for music clips, ending MTV's equivalent of the silent-film era. Landis took the plot of the rampaging mummies from "Night of the Living Dead," adding cheeky twists that presage the "Scream" series. This is the only horror flick in which the dead get a dance sequence - and dance wonderfully, too, since Michael Jackson is among them.

12 - Beat It Michael Jackson, 1983 Bob Giraldi, Director

This was among the most-hyped videos in 1983, made for a then-staggering $150,000. With a plot inspired by "West Side Story," director Giraldi combines two themes of Jackson's career: a fascination with Hollywood spectacle and an ambivalent attraction to macho behavior. Two gangs assemble for a fight, while Michael, alone in his bedroom, broods about violence. As the hoods line up for a stylized rumble, Jackson, wearing the red jacket that became something of a trademark, unites the two factions in the joy of choreography. As the gangs just say no to violence, the video displays Michael's dazzling dance style - and foreshadows his emerging Pied Piper persona.

35 - Billie Jean Michael Jackson, 1983 Steve Barron, Director

[Article copyright of TV Guide] Pharrell Williams: Music's Hottest Hitmaker Talks To The Thriller (August 2003)

Michael Jackson: Hello?

Pharell Williams: Hello! How are you, man?

MJ: You must forgive me, but Gregory Peck, who died yesterday, was a very dear friend of mine, and I've been helping his wife prepare the memorial and all those things. So please forgive me for being late with this call.

PW: No, listen, man, I can't believe I'm on the phone with you.

MJ: Oh, God bless you.

PW: Thank you, sir. You too.

MJ: Thank you. So, I'm interviewing you, right? And I think it's seven questions, or something like that?

PW: Sure. Whatever you like.

MJ: Okay. What would you say inspires you in your music? What is it that inspires you to create your music?

PW: It's a feeling. You treat the air as a canvas and the paint is the chords that come through your fingers, out of the keyboard. So when I'm playing, I'm sort of painting a feeling in the air. I know that might sound corny, but

MJ: -No. No, that's a perfect analogy.

PW: And when you know it's done, you know it's done. It's like painting or sculpting. When you let it go it's because you know that it's finished. It's completed. And vice versa-it tells you, "Hey, I'm not done."

MJ: Yeah. And it refuses to let you sleep until it's finished.

PW: That's right.

MJ: Yeah, I go through the same thing. [laughs] And what do you think of the music today-are you into the new sounds that are being created and the direction that music is going?

PW: Well, personally, I kind of feel like I'm taking notes from people like yourself and Stevie [Wonder] and Donny [Hathaway], and just sort of doing what feels right.

MJ: Right.

PW: You know, like when everyone was going one way, you went Off the Wall [1979].

MJ: Right, [laughs]

PW: And when everyone else was going another way, you went Thriller [1982]. You just did it your way. And I'm taking notes from people like yourself, like not being afraid to listen to your feelings and turn your aspirations and ambitions into material. Making it happen, making it materialize.

MJ: That's beautiful. That's lovely. You said that very well. I wanted to ask you-do you feel, the way I do, that it's almost like a pregnancy, giving birth? Writing a song is like having a child, and once the song is finished, it's like letting the child into the world. Do you ever feel like that, like it's hard to let go?

PW: You know what? I did an interview the other day to present a video, and I was afraid to let it go. That was for a video, but the video to me is like the second part of the song because it is the interpretation given in a visual perspective. So, yes, I completely feel that way. And it's like sometimes if you play something to people and they don't get it, it's kind of like your child who's done something and everyone is pointing fingers and you're like, "Wait! This is my kid!" Now, I'm not a father, but I imagine that's the way it would be-at least that's how I feel about my songs.

MJ: Right. Now the different forms of music-popular-culture music-that the black race has been responsible for bringing in, ushering in, from jazz to pop to rock 'n' roll to hiphop, you name it, what do you think that is all about? Is it given from God?

PW: I think all music is a gift from God. And-[a fan interrupts] Michael, can you hold on for one second? [Williams talks to fan for a few seconds, then resumes talking to Jackson] Sorry.

MJ: [laughs] Blues, rock 'n' roll, all the different forms of popular-cultural music-like rock 'n' roll was invented by Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino.

PW: Absolutely.

MJ: Even the dances from the cakewalk to the Charleston, the popping, the breaking, the locking. Don't you think they're a gift from God?

PW: Absolutely. God gave us that gift when he gave us the gift of interpretation. I mean, when you write your lyrics, you're writing to someone, or to the world. When you're playing, you're playing something for the world to hear. When you're dancing, you're dancing for people to see. It's just a form of expression. And then there are times when you might be a little more introverted about it, when you're dancing, writing, or playing for yourself, and you have no idea how amazing what you're doing looks, sounds, or feels, until somebody else tells you, or until you record it and go back and look at it.

MJ: That's right. Who are some of the older artists-not the artists on the radio today- who inspired you when you were younger? Like the artists your father listened to, did you learn anything from those artists?

PW: Absolutely. The Isley Brothers.

MJ: Yeah, me too. I love the Isley Brothers. And I love Sly and the Family Stone.

PW: Donny [Hathaway], Stevie [Wonder] . . .

MJ: You like all the people I like. [laughs]

PW: Those chord changes. They take you away.

MJ: Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, well, where are you? In New York?

PW: I'm in Virginia Beach, Virginia, sir.

MJ: Virginia! Oh, beautiful. Will you give my love to Virginia?

PW: Yes. Thank you.

MJ: And your mother and your parents? Because God has blessed you with special gifts.

PW: Thank you, sir. And I just want to say something, and I don't know if you want to hear this, but I just have to say it because it's on my heart. But people bother you

MJ: -Yeah.

PW: -Because they love you. That's the only reason why. When you do something that people don't necessarily understand, they're going to make it into a bigger problem than they would for anybody else because you're one of the most amazing talents that's ever lived. You've accomplished and achieved more in this century than most any other men.

MJ: Well, thank you very much. That's very kind of you.

PW: What you do is so amazing. When you are 100 years old, and they're still making up things about what you've done to this and what you've done to that on your body-please believe me, if you decided you wanted to dip your whole body in chrome, you are so amazing that the world, no matter what they say, is going to be right there to see it. And that is because of what you have achieved in the music world, and in changing people's lives. People are having children to your songs. You've affected the world.

MJ: Thank you very much. It's like the bigger the star, the bigger the target. You know when you're-and I'm not being a braggadocio or anything like that-but you know you're on top when they start throwing arrows at you. Even Jesus was crucified. People who bring light to the world, from Mahatma Gandhi to Martin Luther King to Jesus Christ, even myself. And my motto has been Heal the World, We are the World, Earth Song, Save Our Children, Help Our Planet. And people want to persecute me for it, but it never hurts, because the fan base becomes stronger. And the more you hit something hard, the more hardened it becomes-the stronger it becomes. And that's what's happened: I'm resilient. I have rhinoceros skin. Nothing can hurt me. Nothing.

PW: Well, that's precisely my point. I just want to let you know you're amazing, man. What you do to music, what you've done to music, from "Billie Jean" to "That's What You Get (For Being Polite)"-[sings "That's what you get for being polite" ].

MJ: Oh, you know that one? [laughs]

PW: [sings "Jack still sits all alone"]

MJ: Boy, you know all those ones.

PW: When you do that, you do that to the world, [resumes singing "Jack still sits all alone"]

MJ: [hums a guitar riff]

PW: If I never work with you, just know that you are unstoppable. That's why I said, when you're 100 years old and you decide to dip your entire body in chrome, as much as they say things-and I don't care what they say about you, sir-they're going to be right there to see it.

MJ: There's a lot of jealousy there. I love all races, I love all people, but sometimes there's a devil in people, and they get jealous. Every time there's a luminary that goes beyond the heights of his field of endeavor, people tend to get jealous and try to bring him down. But they can't with me because I'm very, very, very strong, [laughs] They don't know that, though.

PW: They know! Please believe me, they know!

MJ: Anybody else would've cracked by now; they can't crack me. I'm very strong.

PW: Of course. They couldn't crack you when you were 10, because you were destroying grown men doing what you did with your voice and your talent. And when you were 20, you were outdoing people that had been doing it for 20 or 30 years. And nowadays they're still waiting to see where you're at. They want to see your kids, they want to see your world. You're amazing, and I just wanted to tell you that, man. And I hope that this all gets printed because it's very important to me. I hope that I can be half as dope as you one day.

MJ: Oh, God bless you. You're wonderful, too. Thank you so much.

PW: Thank you, man.

MJ: Have a lovely day.

PW: You too, sir.

MJ: Thank you. Bye.

PW: Bye. Online Audio Chat October 26, 2001

Anthony: Hello Ladies and Gentleman, this is Anthony DeCurtis. You're on Getmusic.com and we're here tonight for a very special event. The King of Pop, one of the greatest artists in the history of popular music, Michael Jackson, is going to be joining us. He has a new record coming out on Oct. 30, it's called Invisible [interviewer's error]. You can check it out at Michaeljackson.com, you can preorder it at getmusic.com.

Anthony: Michael, it's a pleasure to talk to you, man.

Michael: Pleasure to talk with you.

Anthony: Tell us a little bit about the new album. It's your first new record in 6 years. Uh, do you still get exited when you have something come out? Obviously you've accomplished so much over the years. You know, do you still feel that, like, "Wow, I wonder what people are gonna think" or, you know, feel all of that kind of anticipation.

Michael: I kinda parallel it to a, uh, you know... It's like the gestation process of, uh, birth. You know, it's a... You know, it's like having children, and having to raise them and bring them out into the world, and once they get into the world they're on their own. So, it's, it's, very exciting. I mean, you never get too used to it, ever. It's, uh, an incredible process. But you leave it in the hands of God, like you do when you're having a child.

Anthony: Absolutely. We've got questions already beginning to pour in from your fans on the Internet. We've got Electric Eyes, male, writing in. Says, "Michael, you are, in my mind, the greatest artist of all time. The true King of pop, rock, and soul." And he wants to know, "What is your favorite song on the new album?"

Michael: My favorite song on the new album. Can I pick two?

Anthony: Uh, yeah, I think you can do that. You can pretty much do whatever you like.

Michael: Uh, it would probably be Unbreakable... I'll pick three. Unbreakable, Speechless, and The Lost Children.

Anthony: Tell us about a couple of those tracks. You know, what was it like work... I mean, were there special guests, or were you working with new producers, or how you wrote them. You know, something that gives us some flavor.

Michael: Well, the songwriting process is something very difficult to explain because it's very spiritual. It's, ah... You really have it in the hands of God, and it's as if its been written already -- that's the real truth. As if its been written in its entirety before were born and you're just really the source through which the songs come. Really. Because there is... they just fall right into your lap in its entirety. You don't have to do much thinking about it. And I feel guilty having to put my name, sometimes, on the songs that I -- I do write them -- I compose them, I write them, I do the scoring, I do the lyrics, I do the melodies but still, it's a... It's a work of God.

Anthony: Samantha from Canada just sent us in a question. She would like to know, "How would you describe the sound on Invincible and have you incorporated any other genres into the album?"

Michael: Well, the sound is ... Sonically, we always try to make sure we have, you know, pristine, detailed, uh, you know, the best sound, the best engineers, the best technicians available. And of course, I tried to make the album a potpourri of just wonderful melodies of any style. Because I don't believe in stylizing or branding any type of music. I think a great artist should be able to just create any style, any form, any... any thing from rock to pop to folk to gospel to spiritual to just, just wonderful music where every, uh, anybody can sing it, from the Irish farmer to a lady who scrubs toilets in Harlem. If you can whistle it and hum it, that's the most important thing.

Anthony: Now, when you're working do you find, are you in a mode where you like to listen to a lot of other music, or you're listening to the radio and maybe picking up people's CDs. Or when you're working do you like to just kinda shut it all out and concentrate, you know, intently on what you're doing?

Michael: I pretty much... I always know what's going on, on the radio and in clubs, that people are listening to. Even though people think I live at Neverland -- mentally I'm in Never Never land all the time -- I'm always connected. I always know what's going on in the music world, all the time. Not just in America but Internationally. You know, all over the world. And uh, when I'm working though, I don't... I'm not in... I don't think I'm influenced by a lot of the music today. Uh, I pretty much create what I think is in my heart. Very original. I try to be as original as possible. I don't say, 'OK, I'm gonna make this a great R&B song, a great pop... I just want to make a great song.

Anthony: Like the song takes it's own form.

Michael: Yeah. Yes.

Anthony: Well, uh, Amber here on the Internet offers you lots of love and wonders if, um, it was fun for you to make the rock... the You Rock My World video.

Michael: Yes, that was a lot of fun. Uh, it was... We stayed up all night, which was very hard [giggling]. We, uh, it was fun hearing it blasted on the set on really good speakers. That's one of my favorite things, hearing the music really loud. 'Cause I like to play music loud. I mean, it's, uh... If you play something over the Internet or small speakers, it doesn't have the same punch. That's why you have to buy it. You have to buy that CD to really hear that punch. It makes a huge difference. Huge difference. There's no comparison. Buying the CD is the best thing. There's no comparison. [Interruption from host]... You can't hear all those sounds if you do it on a smaller system.

Anthony: And when you're, uh... So when you're out on the video set, uh, you're able to just kinda crank it up as loud as you want?

Michael: As loud as I want.

Anthony: Very good [laughing]. Well, we have Michael Mathew from Canada. He says, "I just saw Ghosts on MTV. As always, you are awesome, Michael. Do you have any plans of releasing it as a DVD in America?"

Michael: Yes, it will be released as a DVD in America in it's entirety, and some of the making of Ghosts. And that was one of my most favorite things I've ever done because it's been a dream of mine for a long time to do something like, you know, scary but comical at the same time, and, uh, it's all the elements, just fun. 'Cause I don't want to scare people to the point where they're afraid to go to sleep. I want it to have a little twist of humor. And within the laugher there is a tear, you know? It's fun, you know. These ghosts, they weren't really scary, they were fun. They walked up the ceilings. Little kids were laughing at them. They were fun. You know, we don't want to horrify them. But we gave this fat man, this Mayor, his justice, for coming into my house, which was private property, judging me. You know.

Anthony: Absolutely. We have Cloudlee2000 who writes in and wonders, "Why did you name the album Invincible?"

Michael: Well, invincible is something of... I think it's a proper name. It's one of the cuts on the album and I've been an artist.. uh, not to pat myself on the back but the Guinness Book of World Records just listed me, uh, another time, as the artist who's had the longest stretch career 'cause since I was a little, little kid to this point with still hit records from number one records, and uh, I'm so proud and honored that I've been chosen from the Heavens, or whatever it is, to be Invincible, and to just continue to grow and to be, you know... serve the people. It serves the people with wonderful entertainment.

Anthony: Now, one of the, you know, the kind of conventional wisdom in the music industry is, you know, audiences don't really have an attention span any more, you know. If an artist stays away for too long the audience wanders off and goes somewhere else. Was that a concern of yours with coming out with a record and taking a while to work on Invincible or do you, uh, are you convinced your fan base is still there and will be as strong as ever?

Michael: I'm, I'm ... No, the answer to your question is that has never concerned me once and I've never thought of it. Because I've always known if music is truly great or if a movie is truly great, people want to see it or hear it. No matter where you, how long you've been away, or whatever the situation is. You know, greatness is greatness and if you really do a great job on what you're doing, people want to hear it. Or they want to see it. You know, it doesn't matter, It really doesn't. Long as you're an innovator and a pioneer, you know. And that's the most important thing. Give them what they want to hear.

Anthony: Now Slimslady420 U.S. sends in a question and wonders "which song on the Invincible album do you think you personally relate to the most?"

Michael: Ummm, Unbreakable.

Anthony: Talk a bit about that track. Now you mentioned it a couple of times, I'm getting really curious about it. Could you... What could you tell us about it?

Michael: 'Cause, uh, I' m one of the few people, probably in show business, that have been through the ins and outs, you know, of so many different things. Um, I've been through hell and back. I have, to be honest, and uh, and still I'm able to do what I do and nothing can stop me. No one can stop me, no matter what. I stop when I'm ready to stop. You know, and uh, I'm just saying, you know, I will continue to move forward no matter what.

Anthony: Now we have Warful writes in, "Are you working or planning to do any more short films for Invincible, specifically for the really fast tracks such as 2000 Watts, Heartbreaker, Unbreakable, and Invincible?"

Michael: Absolutely, and she said... Whoever said that said the right word when they said said "short films." And uh, that's what we try to make them, short films: a beginning and middle and a ending of a story. Uh, to take the medium to a new level but absolutely. There's like a an array of, an encyclopedia of just great short films to make from the album. It's very exciting. I can't wait to do Threatened. It's a kind of scary one with Rod Serling from the Twilight Zone. I can't wait to get my hands on that one.

Anthony: We have a question here from Nepolian3, says his name is George really, and it says, "Michael, I think this is your most cohesive and impressive album since Thriller. Or, really, Off The Wall. What are some of your most memorable moments while recording the tracks for this album?"

Michael: Most memorable moments were, it was... of all my albums I would say this one was the toughest. 'Cause I was hardest on myself. Uh, I wrote so many songs, I don't want to say the number, just to get to uh, how many are on there, 16? Just to get to the 16 that I think are acceptable. And, um, it's the album where... I didn't have children before other albums, so I caught a lot of colds; I was sick a lot. Cause my children got [interruption from host]. So we had to stop and start again and stop and start and... constantly. But I enjoyed it very, very much.

Anthony: Now, when you describe yourself as being tough on yourself during the recording process. How does that, you know... what is the process that you go to. If you think something isn't quite what it ought to be or maybe you could do better or you know, maybe you want to move something in a new direction. You know, what is that like?

Michael: If I truly told you, I don't know if the fans would like me anymore [giggles]. I've had musicians who really get angry with me because I'll make them do something literally several hundred to a thousand times till it's what I want it to be. Um, but then afterwards, they call me back on the phone and they'll apologize and say, "you were absolutely right. I've never played better, I've done better work, I out-did myself," is what they'll say. And I say, "That's the way it should be because you've immortalized yourself. This is here forever. It's a time capsule." It's like Michelangelo's work. You know, it's like the Sistine Chapel, it's here forever. Everything we do should be that way, you know?

Anthony: To try to bring it to the best possible standard that it can be.

Michael: Absolutely.

Anthony: Now Sweetpea4286 wonders, "Are there any surprises on the new album?"

Michael: Any surprises? Boy. I think it is what it is, and you can interpret it the way you want to interpret it. Um, but uh, that's all I can say about that. Other than some ... we will be releasing some surprise CD singles at some point -- something like that, yeah. In the future, though. That's coming up.

Anthony: Very good. I wanted to ask you, just as... in performing... and recently you've done a couple of shows, you did a couple at Madison Square Garden and you did a show at RFK stadium, a benefit concert, and you know, obviously, you know, you.... live performance has been one of the things that has distinguished you throughout your career. You've been offstage for a while. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what it was like to be out there again in front of an audience and, you know, getting that opportunity to perform again.

Michael: It was, um, it's hard to explain. It was quite exciting, to feel the audience and to see them and to be accepted so warmly by them. Um, it's just an incredible feeling. It really is. They're there to support you and to love you and to hear their favorite songs and you're just standing there and they're just giving you so much adulation and love and the sprit is just full of love, it's wonderful. It's very emotional. It, uh, brings me to tears. It's wonderful.

Anthony: I remember in your book you describe that like sometime on stage is when you feel the most alive, that those are the moments that, you know, really are the whole -- kind of the most transporting for you.

Michael: It is. It's being offstage that's difficult for me. Uh, being on stage ... either writing music or writing poetry, and being on stage, and watching cartoons are my favorite things to do in the entire world. Um, that's what brings me to life. I love that. That's what inspires me to do what I do, you know?

Anthony: Excellent. We have a question from someone calling themself The best dancer in the world. Well, we've got you on the line, I'm not sure that uh, we might have to contest that a little bit. But anyway, the best dancer in the world wants to know, "Michaeljackson.com said that JayZ will appear with you on the new album. Is that true?"

Michael: No, but we are talking about doing something in the future together.

Anthony: Is JayZ an artist who's worked you've liked, is ah.. as a person, have you spent time with him? What's your impression of him?

Michael: I think he's excellent. He has incredible rhythms, counter-rhythms. And he's just one of the newer contemporary artists that the kids really love. He's really, really great.

Anthony: We have a question here from Sweden. Tony from Sweden writes in and says, "Hi Michael. You're the most amazing artist of all time. I just love your music. Do you want to tour, and will you do a world tour or a European tour?"

Michael: Um, gee, we haven't thought about it much right now, but uh, I don't want to say it's not in the works. Um, we're concentrating on a lot of different things right now. But I can't quite say.

Anthony: Fine. I wanted to ask...

Michael: You know what, in the near future I'm sure there'll be something that'll come up. In the near future.

Anthony: People should, ah, keep their eyes open for announcements on that front. We have a question from Noria, describes him or herself as a 32 year old Spanish fan, writing from Los Angeles, would like to know if you have any plans to release any of your songs in Invincible in Spanish or any other language besides English.

Michael: Uh, as of now we haven't but that would be a great thing to do. We haven't written that off. We think it's a big market, so that's a great possibility.

Anthony: Especially for someone like your self who has a big International following- - you know, for many people, their following is in England or in the US, but your following is very International obviously.

Michael: Thank you.

Anthony: Um, talk a bit... One of the things that was of kind of a little bit of a sensation this year was Alien Ant Farm's cover of Smooth Criminal. I wanted to see if you'd paid attention it, if you... Do you enjoy it, or how you felt about it.

Michael: I saw it and fell in love with it. I loved it. I said, I just gotta have this come out. So, they wanted my permission; I saw it and I approved it and gave it a triple A, and said "go right ahead."

Anthony: Fantastic. It must be interesting, as a songwriter, to have other people do your songs and come up with another interpretation. What is that like?

Michael: It's a great compliment. It's a wonderful compliment. It makes you feel worthy and that your music is reaching all the different generations. You know, and all the different, uh... I mean, everybody's out there listening and that makes me very happy.

Anthony: Now we have a question from Canada. Gary, who is 19, writes in, "What other artists did you collaborate with on Invincible?"

Michael: What other artists did I collaborate with on Invincible...

Anthony: Do you have any special guests.

Michael: Umm, oh yeah, Carlos Santana. He and I have done, like, a duet. He plays the guitar and I sing and it's something that, uh, we've written. And it's really, really a nice song.

Anthony: Now had you known him from over time or did you meet him recently?

Michael: I've met him before, but we've been talking a lot on the phone recently. After winning his Grammy award he said to the press that he would like to meet me and he's ready to work with me. So everybody's been telling me that, and uh, I called him up and he said he really would, it would be his dream come true. And he was the nicest man. He's so kind and so spiritual. I found him to be so humble, so I said to myself, "We have to make this work."

Anthony: And so you wrote a song together?

Michael: Well, there's a song that myself and two other people wrote and he was a part of it, and uh, Whatever Happens.

Anthony: Ok.. We have a question from Anicia. Says, "Michael are you a fan of Chris Tucker." Describes him being in your recent video.

Michael: I am a huge, huge fan Chris Tucker. He makes me laugh so hard. um, I uh, I've seen all of his films, and he's just a funny guy. I like people who can make you laugh without using vulgarity, or bad words. For the kids, they're for all different demographics, all the corners of the earth and he's just a funny guy.

Anthony: We have another question from Canada. Tony, who's 17 from Canada, writes and wonders, "How long does it take you to produce a song from the initial conception to the final recording?"

Michael: Well....

Anthony: [laughing] I guess it probably varies from...

Michael: Yeah, it does vary. And for me it's really different than most artists because I'll do a couple of songs, they'll be 5, 6, 7 or 8 or 10 of them; I'll throw them all away and start over. So, that's a difficult question to ask me.

Anthony: I wonder if... is there a specific song on the album -- say Invincible -- you know, how long... when... Do you remember getting the first inspiration for that song and then maybe the day when you finally said, "This is it, I've got it exactly the way I want it?"

Michael: On Invincible itself?

Anthony: umhum.

Michael: Ummm, yes. Yes. I remember having the guys go back in and create more innovative... 'Cause we don't... um, this is our thing, we don't, uh, a lot of sounds on the album that aren't sounds from keyboards, uh, that are, you know, pretty much programmed into the machines. We go out and make our own sounds. We hit on things, we beat on things, so nobody can duplicate what we do. We make them with our own hands, we find things and we create things. And uh, that's the most important thing, to be a pioneer. To be an innovator.

Anthony: Absoluteluy. Now we have Vernay who writes to us from Newark, Delaware, the good ole USA, and Vernay says, "I'm so pleased with the new album but I was particularly touched by Speechless. What was your inspiration for this song?"

Michael: Speechless was inspired to me by, um, I spend a lot of time in the forest. I like to go into the forest and I like to climb trees. My favorite thing is to climb trees, go all the way up to the top of a tree and I look down on the branches. Whenever I do that it inspires me for music. There are these two sweet little kids, a girl and a boy, and they're so innocent; they're the quintessential form of innocence, and just being in their presence I felt completely speechless, 'cause I felt I was looking in the face of God whenever I saw them. They inspired me to write Speechless.

Anthony: Well, that answer actually might touch on this next question which we have, which wonders, "Where do you look for inspiration when you write your songs. Does inspiration come from a variety of different places?

Michael: Well, the best songs that are written write themselves. You don't ask for them, they just drop into your lap. Then there are those songs that, you know, you kind of uh, incubate. You know, you plant the seed, let the subconscious take its course, and within time you hope something comes, and most the time it does. I don't believe in the concept of writer's block - that is a bad word. You create it when you say it. There's no such thing. Um, like any painter or sculptor, they paint... they do their best work when they're in the 60s and their 70s. Fred Astaire did his best dancing when he was in his 70s. Angelo [Michelangelo] sculpted late into his 60s and 70s, doing brilliant ingenious work. But in the music business some of these great artists have become stumped because they self-abuse themselves at a young age, with all these crazy things they drink and pills and things, and uh, that's just not good -- just not a good thing. I hate to say that to hurt anybody, but we should take care of our bodies a little more.

Anthony: Naw, I think a lot of people have realized they've damaged themselves. You know, many people have talked about it in recent years, you know.

Michael: Yeah.

Anthony: We have a question from Allen here who asks if you think that Rodney Jerkins and you have created a new sound for 2001.

Michael: For the song 2000 Watts?

Anthony: He says, "Do you feel that you and Rodney Jerkins, of course the producer, have created a new sound for 2001?"

Michael: 2001?

Anthony: Yes

Michael: Oh. Um, that would be a nice thought, yes.

Anthony: What was it like working with him. How did you guys meet and, you know, how did your collaboration go?

Michael: He was this guy who went around Hollywood and around the industry saying his dream was to work with me to everybody. Then at Carol Bayer Sager's house, who's this great song writer; won several academy awards for her songwriting, said, "There's a guy I used to work with. His name is Rodney Jerkins, he's been crying to me begging to meet you. I mean, why don't you pick up the phone and say 'hi' to him." And he came over that day and he said, "Please, my dream is to work with you. Will you give me two weeks and I'll see what I can come up with." And uh, we ended up working together.

Anthony: And what were your impressions of him, like as just somebody... What did he bring; what did you feel that his contribution was?

Michael: His contribution was he loves to create in the same kind of way that I like to create. But I pushed Rodney. And pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed him to create... uh, to innovate more. To pioneer more. He's a real musician. He's a real musician and he's very dedicated and he's real loyal. He has perseverance. I don't think I've seen perseverance like his in anyone. Because you can push him and push him and he doesn't get angry. Yeah, I think he's a great guy, he really is.

Anthony: That is a great compliment.

Michael: And um, and Teddy Riely is just incredible. He's innovative too. I love working with him.

Anthony: And you had worked with him in the past, of course.

Michael: Yeah, he's one of my favorite... as a human being, he's one of my favorite people in the world. He's just a really sweet, kind guy. You know. And Rodney's very funny. You laugh all day when you're with him. He turns his music up in the studio and he starts dancing around the room. He's fun.

Now we have a question from Its Jackson who is really named Rachel from Connecticut, wonders "Do you have any new dance moves that you've invented while you were making your album?"

Michael: For the first time working on any album, I put a halt to dancing. Because I was just so engrossed and so infatuated with what I was doing um, I did something that was very unusual. But once the music started playing, of course, I started to dance. But um, uh, it's starting to now create itself and, uh, with the music playing I'm coming up with some new things. But that's coming in the future with the newer short films. They'll be seeing... they'll be seeing all kinds of innovative things and movements that have never been seen before. We'll go places where we've never gone in dance before. Cause all the hiphop things that are happening now are beginning to look like aerobics, it's kinda getting annoying. Interview with USA Today (2001)

Michael In The Mirror (USA Today, 2001)

Thursday, 01 November 2001 USA Today, November 2001

By Edna Gunderson

BEVERLY HILLS — The first words from Michael Jackson seem to portend a candid dialogue. "Excuse my skin," he says. "I just came from the dermatologist. So pretend you don't see it." That instruction is tough to obey when dealing with the most scrutinized figure in entertainment, especially one whose many eccentricities include donning disguises in public and heavy cosmetics for the camera. While Jackson is sporting little literal makeup today, figuratively the mask never drops completely.

What was billed as a no-holds-barred interview at times entails jousting with two fiercely protective handlers determined to keep the focus on Jackson's artistry, despite earlier assurances by an Epic Records publicist of unfettered access. All topics were declared fair game except "the pedophilia issue." The settlement of a 1993 suit against Jackson, alleging sexual abuse of a 13-year-old boy, forbids parties to discuss details. Jackson vehemently denied allegations at the time and has not addressed it since.

The subject is never broached during this hour-long interview. Less scandalous matters — his ex-wives, his plastic surgery odyssey, even concerns he's discussed in the past — are deemed off limits as they arise.

One roadblock is hit after Jackson waxes nostalgic about famous friends. "Frank Sinatra lived right above us. He'd see us playing basketball every day. And Fred Astaire lived around the bend. I would have a chance to talk to them and learn and listen. Those were golden moments. When I was 16, we were doing Las Vegas every night, and Elvis (Presley) and Sammy Davis Jr. would sit me and my brothers in a row and lecture us. 'Don't ever do drugs,' they told us. I never forgot it."

Reminded of his own painkiller habit, Jackson goes quiet. Manager Trudy Green, monitoring the interview with Epic executive Steve Einczig, forbids him to respond, even though he confessed the addiction and subsequent treatment in a TV statement nearly a decade ago.

She interrupts again when talk steers to Debbie Rowe, who bore Jackson two children during a marriage from 1996 to 1999. He appears to have sole custody of Prince, 4, and Paris, 3, his constant companions. Asked to comment on persistent rumors that the marriage was arranged to provide offspring, Jackson falls silent.

"No, no, no!" Green protests. "This isn't what we're here for."

A second stab: Do the kids spend time with their mother?

"He doesn't want to talk about that," Green interjects. "This is about Michael as an entertainer."

Granted, the entertainer often is overlooked in the cultural obsession with Jackson's offstage life. If he agrees to dwell on personal areas, Jackson laments, "that will become the whole story."

Fair enough. Jackson's professional accomplishments during his 38 years in show business merit notice, to say the least. He's sold 65 million albums in the USA, racked up 44 solo hit singles and still holds title to history's best-selling album, 1982's Thriller, the global champ with 26 million copies.

Invincible, released Oct 30, entered Billboard at No. 1 with sales of 366,000 copies, about 25,000 shy of 1995's HIStory. The album spawned radio hits You Rock My World and Butterflies but fell out of the top 10 after four weeks despite a self- promotion flurry capped by the Nov. 13 airing of Michael Jackson: 30th Anniversary Special. The two-hour CBS special, culled from a pair of New York concerts toasting his three decades as a solo artist, reached 25.6 million viewers, proof aplenty that Jackson remains an object of fascination.

Today is no exception. Onlookers at the Beverly Hills Hotel strain to glimpse Jackson as a path is cleared and he's swiftly ushered into a bungalow, his face concealed under a hat, sunglasses and black surgical mask. He spends 40 minutes "settling in," as Green puts it.

Finally prepared for an audience, Jackson greets his visitor with a handshake, a shy smile and the odd comment about his complexion. The makeup seems confined to his cheeks and jaw line. His eyebrows are darkened and groomed; the deep brown eyelids could be eye shadow or vestiges of his original skin tone. Vitiligo, an autoimmune disorder characterized by loss of skin pigment, has left much of his face and hands pale. His tiny nose is bandaged. He offers no explanation, and questions later about his skin condition are summarily shot down by Green.

Tall and slender, Jackson wears a brown leather jacket, red shirt, pinstripe trousers and his signature white socks with black loafers. Prince, his dark hair bleached blond, is clad in similar footwear and a kiddie police uniform, complete with plastic handcuffs hanging from a belt loop.

"These keys work!" he announces before returning to his drawings at a nearby table.

Seated in an upholstered chair in the softly lighted suite, Jackson appears relaxed and poised, if a tad weary. He is generous in praising peers. He's flattered by copycats and loves Alien Ant Farm's cover of Smooth Criminal, including the video send up of Jackson's quirks. His eyes light up at talk of upcoming movie projects, especially plans to co-direct a film with director/actor Bryan Michael Stoller in May. He laughs about his earthquake phobia, turns glum when reflecting on a domineering father and gives weight to theories of his eternal boyhood in enthusiastic chatter about toys and theme parks.

Jackson radiates unshakable self-confidence about his musical skills and flashes irritation only when pressed about the press. A rare interview subject, he agreed to this encounter in hopes of emphasizing a message that's frequently obscured by gossip.

"All I'm saying is heal the world, save our children," he says.

Jackson aggressively courts media attention, yet remains frustrated by the level of scorn and speculation directed at him. It's a pet peeve that gets a rise out of the usually soft-spoken star.

"The guy who hits the most home runs is always the target," he complains. "It's human nature."

As he did in Leave Me Alone and Tabloid Junkie, Jackson condemns the prying press in Invincible track Privacy: "You keep on stalking me, invading my privacy. ... Stop maliciously attacking my integrity."

Flanked by chaperones, Jackson faces interrogation with genial resignation and no hint of butterflies.

Q: How do you respond to inaccurate articles about you?

A: I don't pay any attention. The fans know the tabloid garbage is crap. They always say to me, "Let's have a tabloid-burning." It's terrible to try to assassinate one's character. I've had people come to me, and after meeting me, they start crying. I say, "Why are you crying?" They say, "Because I thought you would be stuck up, but you're the nicest person." I say, "Who gave you this judgment?" They tell me they read it. I tell them, "Don't you believe what you read."

Q: Do these rumors persist because you don't refute them?

A: No. I've done so much in the past. I did the most watched TV interview in history with Oprah Winfrey (in 1993). But (the media) tend to want to twist what you say and judge you. I want to keep it on the music and the art. I think about some of my favorite people who ever lived. If I could stand face to face with Walt Disney or Michelangelo, would I care what they do in their private life? I want to know about their art. I'm a fan.

Q: How do you shield yourself from being hurt by criticism?

A: Expecting it, knowing it's going to happen and being invincible, being what I was always taught to be. You stand strong with an iron fist, no matter what the situation."

Q: Critics refer to you as the self-proclaimed King of Pop. Did you choose that title?

A: I never self-proclaimed myself to be anything. If I called up Elizabeth Taylor right now, she would tell you that she coined the phrase. She was introducing me, I think at the American Music Awards, and said in her own words — it wasn't in the script — "I'm a personal fan, and in my opinion he is the king of pop, rock and soul." Then the press started saying "King of Pop" and the fans started. This self-proclaimed garbage, I don't know who said that.

Q: The New York concerts marked your first U.S. shows in 12 years. Were you nervous?

A: No. It was an honor to be back with my brothers again. The producer wanted a cavalcade of luminaries from different fields of endeavor. It was a great honor to have them salute me. It was heartwarming, a happy, fun occasion.

Q: Would you consider another tour with your brothers?

A: I don't think so. I would definitely do an album with them, but not a tour. They would love to tour. But I want to move on to other things. Physically, touring takes a lot out of you. When I'm on stage, it's like a two-hour marathon. I weigh myself before and after each show, and I lose a good 10 pounds. Sweat is all over the stage. Then you get to your hotel and your adrenaline is at its zenith and you can't fall asleep. And you've got a show the next day. It's tough.

Q: If you don't tour, how will you satisfy public demand as well as your need to perform?

A: I want to direct a special on myself and do songs that touch me. I want something more intimate, from the soul and heart, with just one spotlight.

Q: How did you react when Invincible topped the chart here and in a dozen countries?

A: It was a lovely feeling. I cried happy tears to see all the love.

Q: Invincible was several years in the making. Does your perfectionism slow the process?

A: It did take a while because I'm never happy with the songs. I'll write a bunch of songs, throw them out, write some more. People say, "Are you crazy? That's got to go on the album." But I'll say, "Is it better than this other one?" You only get 75 minutes on a CD, and we push it to the limit.

Q: Did you approach Invincible with a single theme in mind?

A: I never think about themes. I let the music create itself. I like it to be a potpourri of all kinds of sounds, all kinds of colors, something for everybody, from the farmer in Ireland to the lady who scrubs toilets in Harlem.

Q: Has it become easier to write songs over time?

A: It's the most effortless thing in the world because you don't do anything. I hate to say it like that, but it's the truth. The heavens drop it right into your lap, in its totality. The real gems come that way. You can sit at the piano and say, "OK, I'm going to write the greatest song ever written," and nothing. But you can be walking down the street or showering or playing and, boom; it hits you in the head. I've written so many like that. I'm playing a pinball machine, and I have to run upstairs and get my little tape recorder and start dictating. I hear everything in its totality, what the strings are going to do, what the bass is going to do, the harpsichord, everything.

Q: Is it difficult translating that sound to tape?

A: That's what's frustrating. In my head, it's completed, but I have to transplant that to tape. It's like (Alfred) Hitchcock said, "The movie's finished." But he still has to start directing it. The song is the same. You see it in its entirety and then you execute it.

Q: After such a long absence, did you have doubts about your current relevance?

A: Never. I have confidence in my abilities. I have real perseverance. Nothing can stop me when I put my mind to it.

Q: After Sept. 11, you wrote a benefit song, What More Can I Give? What's the status?

A: It's not finished. We're adding artists, and I'm getting myself satisfied with the instrumentation.

Q: Is it your belief that music is a tool for healing?

A: It's a mantra that soothes the soul. It's therapeutic. It's something our body has to have, like food. It's very important to understand the power of music. Whether you're in an elevator or a department store, music affects the way you shop, the way you treat your neighbor.

(Prince hands Jackson a drawing. "I appreciate it," Jackson says. "Do you have to go to the bathroom?" Prince: "No.")

Q: Invincible hasn't enjoyed record-breaking sales. Does Thriller cast too big a shadow?

A: Absolutely. It is tough because you're competing against yourself. Invincible is just as good or better than Thriller, in my true, humble opinion. It has more to offer. Music is what lives and lasts. Invincible has been a great success. When The Nutcracker Suite was first introduced to the world, it totally bombed. What's important is how the story ends.

(Prince surfaces again with another picture. "What did you promise me?" Jackson asks. "To be quiet?" Prince responds, then retreats.)

Q: How has fatherhood changed you?

A: In a huge way. You have to value your time differently, no doubt about it. It's your responsibility to make sure they're taken care of and raised properly with good manners. But I refuse to let any of it get in the way of the music or the dance or the performing. I have to play two different roles. I always wanted to have a big family, ever since I was in school. I was always telling my father I would outdo him. He had 10 children. I would love to have like 11 or 12 myself.

Q: What have you taught your children?

A: I try to make sure they're respectful and honorable and kind to everybody. I tell them, no matter what they do, work hard at it. What you want to do for a lifetime, be the best at it.

(Prince is staring. "Stop looking at me," Jackson says, smiling.)

Q: And what have your kids taught you?

A: A lot. (Parenthood) reminds you to do what the Bible has always told us. When the Apostles were arguing among themselves over who was the greatest in Jesus' eyes, he said, "None of you," and called over a little boy and said, "until you humble yourself like this child." It reminds you to be kind and humble and to see things through the eyes of children with a childlike wonderment. I still have that. I'm still fascinated by clouds and the sunset. I was making wishes on the rainbow yesterday. I saw the meteor shower. I made a wish every time I saw a shooting star.

Q: What are your wishes?

A: Peace and love for the children. (Prince returns, gazing intently. "Stop that," says Jackson, gently turning the boy's head away. "Can you be still?")

Q: You've said you plan to home-school your kids. Given your fame, how can you provide a normal life for them?

A: You do the best you can. You don't isolate them from other children. There will be other kids at the school (on his property). I let them go out in the world. But they can't always go with me. We get mobbed and attacked. When we were in Africa, Prince saw a mob attack in a huge shopping mall. People broke so much stuff, running and screaming. My biggest fear is that fans will hurt themselves, and they do. I've seen glass break, blood, ambulances.

Q: Are you resentful that stardom stole your childhood?

A: Yeah. It's not anger, it's pain. People see me at an amusement park or with other kids having fun, and they don't stop and think, "He never had that chance when he was little." I never had the chance to do the fun things kids do: sleepovers, parties, trick-or-treat. There was no Christmas, no holiday celebrating. So now you try to compensate for some of that loss.

Q: Have you made peace with your father?

A: It's much better. My father is a much nicer person now. I think he realizes his children are everything. Without your family, you have nothing. He's a nice human being. At one time, we'd be horrified if he just showed up. We were scared to death. He turned out really well. I wish it wasn't so late.

Q: Did music offer an escape from childhood worries?

A: Of course. We sang constantly in the house. We sang group harmony while washing dishes. We'd make up songs as we worked. That's what makes greatness. You have to have that tragedy, that pain to pull from. That's what makes a clown great. You can see he's hurting behind the masquerade. He's something else externally. Chaplin did that so beautifully, better than anyone. I can play off those moments, too. I've been through the fire many times.

(Prince is back. He leans against the chair to gawk at the king of pops. "Stop looking at me," Jackson implores, clearly unnerved by the tyke's scrutiny. "You're not making this easy." Both of them chuckle, and Jackson warns teasingly, "You may not get that piece of candy.")

Q: Do your religious beliefs ever conflict with the sexy nature of your music or dancing?

A: No. I sing about things that are loving, and if people interpret it as sexy, that's up to them. I never use bad words like some of the rappers. I love and respect their work, but I think I have too much respect for parents and mothers and elderly people. If I did a song with bad words and saw an older lady in the audience, I'd cringe.

Q: But what about your trademark crotch-grabbing moves?

A: I started doing that with Bad. Martin Scorsese directed that short film in the subways of New York. I let the music tell me what to do. I remember him saying, "That was a great take! I want you to see it." So we pushed playback, and I went aaaah! I didn't realize I was doing that. But then everyone else started doing that, and Madonna, too. But it's not sexual at all.

Q: How are you spending your free time these days?

A: I like to do silly things — water-balloon fights, pie fights, egg fights. (Turning to Prince) You got a good one coming! I don't think I'll ever grow out of that. At my house, I built a water-balloon fort with two sides, a red team and a blue team. We have cannons that shoot water 60 feet and slingshots that shoot the balloons. We got bridges and places to hide. I just love it.

Q: After 38 years in show business, fans still mob you. Are you immune to adulation?

A: It's always a good feeling. I never take it for granted. I'm never puffed up with pride or think I'm better than the next-door neighbor. To be loved is a wonderful thing. That is the main reason I do this. I feel compelled to do it, to give people some sense of escapism, a treat to the eye and the ear. I think it's the reason I'm here.

Q: Why do you think people are jealous?

A: If you look back in history, it's the same with anybody who's achieved wonderful things. I know the Disney family well, and Walt's daughters used to tell me it was difficult when they were in school. Kids would say, "I hate Walt Disney. He's not even funny. We don't watch him." Charlie Chaplin's kids, who I know well, had to take their children out of school. They were being teased: "Your grandfather is stupid. He's not funny. We don't like him." He was a genius! So you have to deal with this jealousy. They think they're hurting you. Nothing could hurt me. The bigger the star, the larger the target. At least they're talking. When they stop talking, you have to worry.

Q: How did you gear up for the physical demands of your special concerts (which aired as a two-hour CBS special)? Do you exercise?

A: I hate exercise. I hate it so much. The only thing I do is dance. That's an exercise. That's why I like some of the karate stuff or kung fu. It's all a dance. But sit-ups? I hate it.

Q: Were you intimidated by and of the other superstars on the bill?

A: No. I enjoy watching performers. It's all school for me. I never stop learning. It was really inspiring.

Q: Are you more enamored with modern music or vintage stuff?

A: I like the earlier stuff. It's more melodically conscious. Today people rely on a beat or a rhythm, which is nice, but I said this time and time again, melody will always be king. You have to hum it.

Q: You've teamed with a huge variety of musicians. What attracts you to a particular collaborator?

A: If I see some potential in their ability as an artist or musician, I'll give them a hook or a line or a phrase and see how they play it or execute it. Sometimes we go all day and it's still not right.

Q: Did you learn that lesson from your parents?

A: Our parents taught us to always be respectful and, no matter what you do, to give it everything you have. Be the best, not the second best.

Q: You are often pursued by mobs of fans. Are you ever scared for your own safety?

A: Never ever. I know exactly what to do when it gets really rough, how to just play them. As long as they can see you, they're crazy, but you can put yourself in the eye of the hurricane. If you duck and they can't see you, they calm down.

Q: Your inner circle seems to consist of very young friends and much older ones. What connects you to people like Marlon Brando or Elizabeth Taylor?

A: We've had the same lives. They grew up in show business. We look at each other, and it's like looking in a mirror. Elizabeth has this little girl inside of her who never had a childhood. She was on the set every day. She loves playing with a new gadget or toy, and she's totally awe-inspired by it. She's a wonderful human being. So is Brando.

Q: What happened to your plans to build theme parks in Europe or Africa?

A: We're still working on a couple of projects. I can't say right now where. I love theme parks. I love seeing children coming together, having a good time with their parents. It's not like it used to be, when you put your kids on the merry-go-round and sat on the bench eating peanuts. Now you enjoy it with them. It builds a unity to the family.

Interview with TV Guide Magazine (2001)

By Mary Murphy and Jennifer Graham

Michael Jackson tries to reclaim his throne as the King of Pop When you have been in show business 35 years — when you been a legend in show business for much of that time — you know how to make an entrance. At least Michael Jackson does.

The King of Pop doesn't simply arrive anywhere, and his appearance in a lush room at the pricey Beverly Hills Hotel is no exception. He is two hours late. He is preceded by his bodyguard, whose security check includes peeks behind curtains and into closets and bathrooms. Then the guard dims the lights. When the door finally swings open, it is not Jackson but two small children who bolt into the room: Prince, 4, whose dark hair is bleached blond, and Paris, 3, whose brown curls tumble to her shoulders. Finally, their father arrives.

His image is ubiquitous — his sculpted face and doe eyes peer at us from supermarket stands seemingly daily — and yet unique. He's slight, wearing a blue military shirt and his trademark short black pants and white socks. And then there is his nose. His famous nose, which, on this day, is covered by gray bandages.

"It is analgesic tape," he says, quietly but good-naturedly. "For allergies."

With his children playing on the floor by his feet, he talks about his life, politely and with an amazing sense of poise and self-possession. He is a man at times indignant about the press but able to laugh at himself, which may be the most surprising thing about Michael Jackson. At one point, he doubles over giggling at the thought of how at concerts women have fainted in his presence.

And yet he is apprehensive. At 43, Jackson is at a crossroads in his career, urgently trying to transform himself from '80s icon to a player in the current pop scene. His first step in a climb back to the top were the two recent concerts at Madison Square Garden, his first public performances in America in 12 years. They have been edited into a two-hour television special titled Michael Jackson: 30th Anniversary Celebration, airing Tuesday, November 13 (CBS, 9 pm/ET). He is anxiously awaiting reaction to his latest album, Invincible (at press time, its first single, "You Rock My World," had reached No. 10 on Billboard's Hot 100 chart, while the video has been an MTV staple). In addition, he has written and is producing a "We Are the World"-type song called "What More Can I Give"; its proceeds will benefit victims of the September 11 attacks. And he will make a cameo appearance in next summer's film sequel Men in Black 2.

In the end, it was Michael Jackson the father, a man deeply connected to his children and his own childhood, who left the most lasting impression.

TV GUIDE: This television special celebrates your long career. Do you remember the first time you ever stepped onstage?

MICHAEL JACKSON: I was 5 years old. And it was at a public-school recital. We had to wear white shirts and short knickers. And I remember them saying, "Little Michael Jackson is coming up to sing 'Climb Every Mountain.'" I got the biggest applause. When I went to my seat my grandfather and mother were crying. They said, "[We] can't believe how beautiful you sound." That's the first one I remember.

TVG: It's rare for you to do a TV special.

MJ: I've turned down so many because I just don't like to go on television. I get embarrassed. So I'll do a performance, but I won't watch it until almost a year or two later because I'm always disappointed in something I did.

TVG: The concerts that were filmed for this special were packed with big stars. That couldn't have been disappointing.

MJ: The [second] show was good. [The first show] was horrible because, technically, there were a lot of breakdowns and intermissions in between each act. It was very difficult. The audience was waiting and waiting and waiting.

TVG: What does it feel like when you're dancing onstage?

MJ: I am a slave to the rhythm. I am a palette. I just go with the moment. You've got to do it that way because if you're thinking, you're dead. Performing is not about thinking; it's about feeling.

TVG: Do you plan the dance steps?

MJ: Certain steps are set with my brothers. But when I'm alone, it's all improvised. Nothing is planned, ever. All the dance schools now teach kids to count, and that's completely wrong.

TVG: What do you think about current pop groups like 'N Sync? Are they imitating you?

MJ: I think they're very good singers. I know them very well, and we hang out every once in a while and laugh and play. I have no problem with them imitating [me]. It's a compliment. Everybody has to start out looking up to someone. For me it was James Brown, Sammy Davis Jr., Jackie Wilson, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly.

TVG: The special features an appearance by Marlon Brando. How did he get involved?

MJ: Brando's a good friend of mine. I've known him for about 20 years. He comes to my house all the time. He loves to play with the kids. I play with his grandchildren, and we love to watch movies.

TVG: Who else do you spend time with?

MJ: Elizabeth [Taylor], Brando, Gregory Peck, these are very close friends of mine. Either they're much older than me or much younger. I've never had real contact with a person on my age level. I think this happened because all my life I played clubs, since I was 5 years old. I saw people drunk, fighting, and it was just disgusting. When people say to me today,

"Hey, let's go to a club," I go, "No way." If I go, it's not a party for me — too many autographs and photographs.

TVG: Was that true at your post concert party at [the] Tavern on the Green restaurant?

MJ: It was worse then — I couldn't breathe because everybody [was crowding around].

TVG: And you fainted?

MJ: That's a rumor. It was sensationalism. [The press] made it up. As usual. They love doing that to me.

TVG: What did happen?

MJ: Nothing. I didn't faint. Not even close. [The press has] done this for so long, and it's disgusting. [Gently, to Paris, who is skipping around the coffee table] Paris, you can't make noise. You can't — no, don't bump the table. [The reporters are] tape recording.

TVG : Liza Minnelli also sang at one of the concerts. You two seem very close.

MJ: I speak to Liza every week. We come from the same planet. Like Elizabeth does.

TVG: What planet is that?

MJ: It's called Capricious Anomaly in the Sea of Space [laughs]. Gee, I can't name it. Just beyond our solar system, I think. But this is true, and this is not to be taken lightly: People who grew up as child stars have the same thing in common. You're cute, they love you; you go through the awkward stage, they don't accept you anymore. Very few make the transition to adult star. And most of them become self- destructive. And it's very sad.

TVG: How did you avoid self-destruction?

MJ: I think religion entered in.

TVG: Are you still a Jehovah's Witness?

MJ: Yeah. I've done, you know, we call it pioneering. We do 90 hours a month. I don't do as much now because I'm busy. You go door to door. I wear a fat suit, pop- bottle glasses, mustache, buckteeth and, like, an Afro wig. And I knock on the door and say we're Jehovah's Witnesses.

TVG: This special is in conjunction with the launch of your seventh solo album, Invincible. Is this your comeback?

MJ: I don't see it as a comeback. I only do an album every four years. It's just that I've been on hiatus, writing.

TVG: The album features rap stars Will Smith and Jay-Z. It's hard to imagine you working with Jay-Z, whose image is a bit rougher than yours.

MJ: [He] was just so sweet. And you hear these crazy stories about something [some of these rappers] did the next day, and it's hard to believe. I always see them to be very kind. Perfect gentlemen.

TVG: What's the message of "Unbreakable," the first song on the album?

MJ: That [I'm] invincible, that I've been through it all. You can't hurt me. Knock me down, I get back up. [To Prince, who begins to bang his Snapple lemonade on the coffee table] See the noise you're making? You've got to be nice and quiet.

TVG: You are known for being eccentric. Did growing up in the limelight have something to do with that?

MJ: [Smiling coyly] It depends on what kind of eccentricities you're talking about.

TVG: People call you Wacko Jacko.

MJ: But that's not nice. They do that because they're jealous. I haven't done anything. I go to hospitals and orphanages. And we take huge bags of toys. I spend thousands of dollars. What's wacko about that?

TVG: Because of the way you are portrayed in the press, people wonder, "Is he strange?"

MJ: [Exasperated] I did Oprah. I did Diane Sawyer. [People] saw me. [The press] is just completely jealous. And it's just one of those things that I have to deal with. TVG: How do you deal with it?

MJ: I turn it into positive energy. And I write about it, I dance about; it's in my movement, it's in the expression on my face. And it becomes a part of me, part of my creation. And I try not to let it get to me. Because if you do, you'll go crazy.

TVG: Your first video, for the single "You Rock My World," is actually a 15-minute short film. How did you come up with its gangster theme?

MJ: I don't know — the idea just kind of happened. In Cuba. Hot summer night. A club run by these hoods. I just wish [MTV] would show the long version. The short version I don't like at all. It's not entertaining enough.

TVG: How much are you involved in the video-making process?

MJ: When you say Michael Jackson, people always think of an entertainer. They don't think of the fact that I write songs. I'm not trying to brag, but I write them, and I direct a lot of [the videos]. I don't think [younger artists] are aware of those things, which I think would be inspiring for them.

TVG: When you were making this video, did you think, "I want this to be as good as the one for Thriller"?

MJ: No, because I know I didn't have the time to execute that. There are ones that are coming up that will be better.

TVG: Do you let your kids watch MTV?

MJ: At a certain age I will, not now. They are going to have to be 15 or 16.

TVG: Do you watch TV?

MJ: I love PBS, the Discovery Channel, The Simpsons. I love Sesame Street. I could watch it for hours. But my favorite show is Malcolm in the Middle. It reminds me so much of [my brothers and me] when we were little.

TVG: Which character do you relate to?

MJ: Malcolm. Mainly because he tries to fit into society, and he doesn't — like E.T. or Bambi, he can't adjust to other people's concepts. And I feel like that a lot of times. Once I'm offstage, I feel awkward, like this is not where I'm supposed to be. Michael Jackson Interview on Steve Harvey Radio Show March 08, 2002.

On March 8, 2002, Michael called in to an LA radio Station, 100.3 The Beat LA, in Los Angeles, California.

Steve Harvey: This is the single best call ever on this radio station. This one is bigger than president Clinton calling. Ladies and Gentlemen, on the phone, put your hands together and show your love. For the King of Pop, Michael Jackson. You don't hear me...you don't hear me...you think I'm lying....you don't feel me...watch what I'm saying...hey Mike?

Michael: Steve?

Steve: How you doin' playa?

Michael: Wow...how are you?

Steve: What's up playa. How you feelin' man?

Michael: I went to bed early so I could wake up and speak to you. I'm a really big fan of yours.

Steve: Hey man.

Michael: I told you, I saw your show 'The Kings of Comedy' and you did a skit about the Titanic, and I thought that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life....incredible.

Steve: [laughs]. Um, Michael and I met, uh...

Michael: Yea, in my trailer.

Steve: On the set of Rock my World.

Michael: Yeah

Steve: Yea, this year....he invited me. And I didn't come on the air and tell anybody, because I considered that a private thing just between us, you know. I'm not goin' yea I was in Michael Jackson's trailer....you know, the brotha invited me to his trailer, and I met his kids. Great kids man...Michael, great kids man.

Michael: Thank you very much

Steve: Can I pay you this compliment? Your kids didn't act like little rich kids.

Michael: Ok...[laughs embarrassed]

Steve: You know what I mean? They have manners they were real nice. I was playing ball with your little boy. He didn't want to stop, man. He just kept throwing me the ball. After a while I just got right in to it. I said alright little Prince here you go.

Michael: [laughs]

Steve: I'm goin' throw you a hot one - catch it!...Mike?

Michael: Yes…

Steve: Man, I can't tell you how big this is man, for us here at The Beat, man.

Michael: Well, God bless you, you're just a great talent. You're really incredible...you're very funny. Gosh, seriously, you have me screaming when I watch your thing man, I watch it all the time...

Steve: [laughs]

Michael: [Laughs]

Steve: ...This dude is funny man, when we were in his trailer... Really really nice people in this business man, really nice people in this business....and I tell you what, I got something for you. I talked to your personal assistant, and I got this new DVD out, and I'm sending you that. You have that today.

Michael: Wow! Cool! Thank you.

Steve: ...Playa, playa....thank you Mike. Mike Jackson on the phone! I don't even know what to ask.... Hey, Mike I got another one for you!

Michael: Yea?

Steve: Hey man, let me ask you this question. When you were performing on the 30th anniversary special. Did you have an emotional moment when you and your brothers was on stage? Cause there was a moment when you were performing and you kneeled down and you stayed there and your brothers were looking at you like, OK Mike, come on. Was that real, dog?

Michael: It's always real...and I take that moment and I try not to cry, and I usually do. But it all goes back for me, you know, to conception, you know, when we were really little babies and children. And we see all the adulation and notoriety...and it just…it's a work from God, and it all goes through me really fast.

Steve: Oh yea.

Michael: And it all goes through me....it's a real blessing. I just break down and I cry at that moment...I try not to show it to the audience, but I can't help it. You know?

Steve: Yea. Well, I saw it and I thought that was real you know. I think, uh, I think people, when they see those things in you brotha, when you let them see a glimpse of the real Michael Jackson that oftentimes your closest friends only get to see...I thought that was my favorite part of the show. I always said if I get a chance to talk to this bro' I'm going to ask him about it.

Michael: Yea.

Steve: That was hot man, that was real hot. Hey man, there's so much man, that we can talk about. Your career and everything….Your sister called the radio station.

Michael: Oh yah?

Steve: Janet called. About a few months ago, Janet called...First of all Michael, let me introduce you to uh, my co-hosts on the show; Shirley Strawbery and Dominique De'Creme, cause they are busting to say hi.

Shirley/Dominique: [laugh] Good morning Michael!

Michael: Good morning!

Shirley/Dominique: Hi Michael!

Michael: How are you?

Shirley/Dominique: Great! Oh, we are such big fans of yours.

Michael: Oh! Thank you so much.

Shirley/Dominique: Huge fans. Oh, I love your album. I really, really do love your album.

Michael: Thank you so much.

Steve: The new album Mike!

Shirley/Dominique: We really love it, seriously!

Michael: Thank you so much.

Shirley/Dominique: Break of Dawn...I keep playing Break of Dawn over and over and over again.

Michael: Oh, thanks!

Shirley/Dominique: It's so sexy....ah!

Steve: Hey Mike, listen to this. We had the O'Jays on the show on Monday, and we were talking about your album.

Michael: Uh huh.

Steve: And the O'Jays...this is Eddie Levert's take on your album. He said, "Mike threw 'Rock My World' out there at 'em. Then, just said hold up, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Then you drop 'Butterflies'..."

Shirley/Dominique: Oh! Ah!

Steve: ...and Butterflies man, I'm telling you, on this station right here, I play Butterflies at least twice a morning, and in 4 hours that ain't right on the radio.

Michael: [laughs] Thanks!

Shirley/Dominique: Sounds right to me!

Steve: [laughs] Hey Mike, where did you get Butterflies from?

Michael: Well, Butterflies is um...it was these 2 girls named Floetry, and they came with the song, and uh, we kinda worked together. Uh, it's mainly these other 2 girls who mainly composed that one.

Steve: Wow.

Michael: And um, I think they're British. Yea, they're British girls...They're black British girls, and they were just phenomenal. And I thought it was something that I just really, really liked and we did some kind of counter hooks and lines, and just kinda painted it with different sounds and everything, different colors, and so we produced it, and I produced it, and just created something that was just acceptable and it ended up going on the album. 'Cause I'll do at least over 100 songs, until I come up with about 20 or 30 that I like.

Steve: No doubt...

Michael: And I'll decipher it down...

Steve: Wow, 100 songs, dog, before you come up with 20 or 30 you like?

Michael: Yea, it was more this time, actually, than 100.

Steve: Gee.

Shirley/Dominique: Well, he is Michael Jackson, you know....he's Bad...he's Dangerous....he's working day and night, that's what he is...Yes he is!

Steve: Wow! [laughs] Yea....hey man, Mike, I know you ain't this kind of bro' but I am, so I'm just going to put it out there real like that....ever since you came back, I told Usher and Sisquo that they gotta go put their shirt back on!

Michael: [laughing]

Steve: [laughs] Put your shirt back on....Mike is back!! You take that glove off your elbow, and all that man, the King is back, baby!! [laughs] That's how we be rockin' that one. Hey man, we have gotten over the years, all of us...your true fans, Michael...

Michael: Aw...

Steve: ...are still out there in the streets man, and I can't even tell you, um, I speak at prisons across the country often times, and I was at Pritchard's Detention Centre out here, and one of the brothas that was locked away said 'Steve, the love that you be givin' Michael Jackson on the air...he said, if you ever, ever talk to him, tell him that we up in here, man, we been feeling his music for a long time'.

Michael: Wow, that's beautiful.

Steve: Yea man, that's a great compliment, man. For what you've been to people, Mike, for all these years, man...I mean, brotha, I don't know if any body's ever said thank you to you for the way you put it down, for all of the music that you gave us that's still in our hearts, man, and I don't know if nobody ever said thank you to you man.

Michael: Well god bless you, that's so beautiful...I appreciate it. It's not easy being in my position because; you create so much sensationalism and tabloids...people lie.

Steve: Come on man...

Michael: The create rumors and stories and none of it's true.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: And it's very, very difficult, you know....it's not easy, it's very hard. And you end up, you hurt sometimes, and you try to be as resilient as possible...

Steve: Right.

Michael: But it's very, very difficult because there's tabloids and lies...they hate....they're very jealous.

Steve: Yea, I dig it.

Michael: They just...when you read this stuff, it's a lie, don't believe it. Burn it. We should have a tabloid burning...

Steve/ Shirley/Dominique: [laugh]...Yea, dig it.

Michael: We should have a tabloid burning. Make a mountain of them and just throw the match....cause they...

Steve: Yea, man!

Michael: …'cause they just hate to see us grow and build and build, and there's nothing wrong with that. They can, but that's OK. But, what can I do but to reinforce the talent God gave us, and that's all I wanted to do.

Steve: Yea...

Michael: Just share the love and gifts of entertainment. That's all I want to do. I don't want to hurt anybody.

Steve: No. That's real, and man, you know what man....um, I'm just going to say this man, um, I talked with your mom off the air before through Jermaine...he and I had a conversation on the air, and then he called me off the air and I was talking to you mother, Mrs. Jackson, off the air...

Michael: She's wonderful.

Steve: Aw, man, your mother is....and I gave her her propers too. I told Ms. Jackson, I said a phenomenal job you've done in raising as many talented children that you have and still maintain them as a family. And she was uh, thanking me because I had came forward on your behalf on more than one occasion, concerning several issues, man, and they were just totally false about you. And I prompted everybody to go get a copy of the GQ article, from 1994.

Shirley/Dominique: Oh, yea...

Steve: And uh, GQ had a lot of back issues re-ordered because of this. And um, a lot of people read the article and found out the real truth behind a lot of things that were so false man, and um, your mom was thanking me for saying that on the radio. And I just wanted to say man, that there are a lot of people out here man, that really feel you playa, and wish that they could just feel you some more, and a phone call like this Mike. I gotta tell you playa, it goes a long way, man.

Michael: Well thank you so much. I don't do it often at all. I never do it, I never do it.

Steve: Thank you Mike.

Micahel: This is a first.

Steve: [laughs] Yea!

Shirley/Dominique: It is the first and thank you! Wow!

Michael: Well, I'm happy to do it for you. And it's from the bottom of my heart. You're just so kind, and wonderful to me. Somebody...people used to tell me different places; there's this guy who talks about you everyday!

Steve/ Shirley/Dominique: [laugh]

Michael: And he uh...and I'd go, 'Who is it', and they'd go, 'His name is Steve'. I'd go 'Steve'...and then I saw the Kings of Comedy show, and I go 'This is the guy?'

Steve/ Shirley/Dominique: [laugh]

Michael: And I said, Oh my god, I said, I'm a fan of him now!

Steve: Yea, and it was...and you gave me a call and it was like really crazy. Cause you know going to see Mike ain't no...you don't just walk up and go 'Hey, Mike, how's it going'. No, you gotta go through some channels. But it was great, man, and you helped me out. Hey Mike, listen man, um, can you tell us exactly what is Never, Never land. Can you clear that up for the listeners?

Shirley/Dominique: NEVERland!

Michael: Sure, sure...

Steve: Oh, I thought it was Never, Neverland...but that ain't right, no...

Michael: That's OK too if you want to call it Never, Neverland. It's just a serene and tranquil place, to just relax and enjoy yourself and leave your troubled mind and those things that irritate you in your heart and your soul, behind. And once you enter the gates, you're just in a very wonderful, quiet, loving place. And there's lakes, and you know, rolling hills and grass and trees and, you know, rides and trains, and....

Steve: How big is it Mike?

Michael: It's 3000 acres.

Shirley/Dominique: Woo hoo...sounds like paradise!

Michael: Yes, well...

Steve: Yo, 3000 acres...

Michael: Yes.

Steve: I got 70 acres in Texas, and I thought I was king!

Michael: [laughs]

Steve: I got 70 acres, you got 3000!

Michael: Well, I get to compensate for the loss, you know in my childhood that I never got to enjoy those child-like things, but it's...it's for everybody. And we have handicapped, kids with cancer, terminally ill children, leukemia kids...Make A Wish Foundation, Dream Street...we've been doing for like over 9, 10, uh...11 years!

Steve: Wow!

Michael: Yea, and uh, I did it before at my mother's house in Encino. We never wave a flag, we never try to get press for it. I do it quietly.

Steve: Right, absolutely.

Michael: We have....by the busloads they come. We don't allow cameras or videos. I do it quietly. 'Cause real charity is from the heart, you know.

Steve: Yea.

Michael: Not to say, look at me, look what I'm doing. But I do it quietly from the heart.

Steve: Oh, yea, that's real.

Michael: And uh, I've done this for years. Many, many years. And uh, one day maybe you can meet me there and we can say hello.

Steve: You know, that would be great. You know what Mike. I've got a....for everybody who's just tuning in, we're interviewing live on the radio Michael Jackson. I mean this is like, this is the bomb, this is the bomb interview, this tops it for me! You know Mike, I've had President Clinton call me from Air Force One before, and uh, it did not have this impact! Believe me, cause Clinton cool and everything, but....

Michael: I really like him.

Steve: Yea, he ain't Michael though. He ain't one bit Billie Jean, and Beat It and ABC.

Michael: [laughs]

Steve: [singing] ..."looking through the windows, window..." wow!

Michael: [laughs]

Steve: That was my jam....[singing] "I'll be there....come on everybody...I'll be there...."

Michael: [laughing]

Steve: That was my jam, Mike!

Shirley/Dominique: Aw, man.

Steve: [still in the background, singing] ..."Man in the Mirror"...ow!

Michael: [laughing loudly on top of Steve's singing]

Steve: [singing]..."I'm asking him to change his ways”....ow!..."and no message could have been any clearer"..."if you wanna make a change, da da da da da...."

Michael: [laughing loudly]

Steve: ...Man, I got the King of pop on the floor....no, I am the king! Hey Mike man, you invite me out to Neverland but let me ask you this. My wife and I, we got a foundation, it's called the Steve and Muriel Harvey Foundation, and we been trying to put together man, you know there are so many children out here in the LA school districts that just don't have books. They just do not have a book, man...

Michael: Wow.

Steve: ...and they, with all these budget cuts that goin' down. Most of these uh, schools that's in, uh, really, really impoverished neighborhoods and they just not getting the education. We, for example, Mike, I walked into classrooms with children in it, where they had 38 children, 23 books...no, 23 desks, and 8 books. With 38 kids, 23 desks and just 8 books, and it broke my heart man. So I took some news cameras down there. So, instead of having me come to Neverland, because I know it would be great for me, but, if my foundation got together a bus of really, really, uh, inner-city kids, man, that were real young and had never been out of their neighborhood and never saw anything great, if I could arrange it through your people man, if I paid for the bus and everything...If we could get a bus load of kids man....

Michael: You got it, we'll do it. That's what we do.

Shirley/Dominique: Oh! Wow! [clapping]

Steve: Thanks, man.

Michael: I would be more than pleased and happy to do that.

Steve: Yea, so...

Michael: That's what we do.

Steve: Mike, what I will do is, I'll put a little contest together on the radio and we'll go to the schools that have the least and we'll....because if these children man, if they could get a chance to see something outside of their neighborhood, something - some of these kids have never been to the beach out here. Some of these kids never been to Beverly Hills out here. If we could get that worked out man, at the top of the year, my foundation would happily pay for the busses and the lunches, but I know you'd take care of them out there.

Michael: Of course!

Steve: I think that would be great...

Michael: Wow, I'd love to do it.

Steve: Cool that's what I mean man.

Michael: I'd love to do it!

Steve: That's the bomb deal right there. Hey Mike, hey man, if you could say...um, the new album's out, and it's called Invincible for those of you who are listening...

Shirley/Dominique: It really is good!

Michael: Thank you.

Steve: ...and he didn't call in to promote the album, that's not what the call is about....it's just playa to playa...

Michael: Mmmhmmm..

Steve: ...brotha to brotha....dog to dog...

Michael: [laughs]

Steve: ...Steve to King.....king to king...

Shirley/Dominique: We just want him to know we appreciate it, that's all. I mean the good music, he's still as good as he was years and years ago, we just love it!

Michael: Thank you so much.

Shirley/Dominique: We're big fans of you Michael, big fans.

Michael: Thank you, thank you, God bless you...thank you so much.

Steve: Hey man, that's the one thing, man that I want to get across to people, that the brotha on the phone has been a real brotha the whole time. Regardless as to what you hear in the media, or what you read about...the tabloids, they're garbage, they print stuff about everybody false all the time.

Michael: False, false.

Steve: They just...this cat right here is one of the nicest people in this business, and been that way a long time. And has not harmed a hair on anyone's head, but people have gone after him for monetary gains, just to get money, man....

Michael: That's right.

Steve: If you read the GQ article in 1994 [see EMJ's Interviews/Speeches page for this article] get a copy, and send off, and read the article...with the cover, with Michael Jackson on the cover, it will tell you this whole story and exactly what happened. And I mean man, it was very revealing, and I was stunned, but then not really, cause I know how people are. 'Cause I only get a taste of it, and I ain't even, I ain't even Michael Jackson...I mean, I'm dangerous. When you come in here, I cuss, spit, and do all kinds of things....

Michael: [laughs]

Steve: I got, friends in low places....hey Mike, if you need a couple of them friends, roll out some hammers and fight....but no, real Michael, the tabloids they really on your nerves, we can get the tabloid building burnt down!

Shirley/Dominique: You are such a thug.

Michael: Good...We need to...we need to do it.

Steve: Let's be real Mike, let's be real...

Michael: We need to do it!

Steve: I've got some boys that can get over there dog, I'm talking from low places...

Michael: Yea, they're disgusting. Then there are those that disguise themselves as legitimate, and they're just as tabloid, no they're worse!

Steve: Yea! I've read a couple of 'em newspapers, too!

Michael: Yea, they're worse!

Steve: Yea, I bet them that! Hey man, I think it's great for the masses to hear you, and man every now and then Mike, just give me a call. My interview with you is always this way. The morning show is motivational and always uplifting. We're not here to tear nobody down...

Michael: Wow!

Steve: ...to poke fun, I got about a million jokes, I can do about anything else, but I know I don't get off on any body's personal lives, but you brotha, you have meant a lot to people man.

Michael: Well, thank you so much.

Steve: And I want to say something special to you too man, cause a lot of people don't give this one to you. But I gotta tell you somethin’' you mean something to black people, man. Don't ever think you don't and you haven't.

Michael: Wow!

Steve: Cause you have made a difference for a lot of minorities across this country, and you remember that about your music, man, you remember that about your videos. You touch us that way. And I'm giving you something man, just from one brotha to another that the mainstream American can't give to you. That is, what you have done in representing black people...

Michael: I'm proud of my heritage.

Steve: Go on and say it...

Michael: I'm proud to be black, I'm honored to be black. And I just hope that one day that they will be fair, and portraying me the way I really, really am; just a loving, peaceful guy, wanting to make a wonderful, unprecedented entertainment in songs and music and film, uh, for the world.

Steve: Yea.

Michael: You know, and that's all I want to do. No threat, I just want to do that, you know? That's all I want to do, bring joy to the world.

Steve: You been doing it man, you been doing it for a long, long time....

Michael: Thank you.

Steve: ...Usher, put your shirt on! Mike is back...the King of Pop is back!

Michael: [laughing]

Steve: ...put your shirt on, and let's put your hair back on...

Shirley/Dominique: He's crazy, Michael, he's crazy!

Steve: ....put your hair in a bun, and put your hat back on....cause the King is back! Michael Jackson, Steve Harvey and the morning show....We've got big love for you playa.

Michael: I love you more.

Steve: Big love brotha, call us again.

Michael: I love you all, thanks...

Steve: You all show your love for the one and only King of Pop...

Shirley/Dominique: Michael Jackson!! [screams]

Michael: I love you!

Steve: We love you too, man. VIBE Magazine Interview March, 2002

I first met Michael Jackson some 33 years ago when Diana Ross introduced the Jackson 5 - then a brand-new Motown act - to 350 music and media folk at the Daisy Club in Beverly Hills. My husband, Ken, and I were then publishing Soul, one of the first national black-entertainment newsmagazines. Ten year old Michael already knew how to charm a crowd. Acknowledging Diana's support, he said, "After singing for four years and not becoming a star, I thought I would never be discovered - this is, until Miss Ross came along to save my career." Just four months later, the Jackson 5's first single, "I Want You Back," soared to the top of the Billboard Hot 100 charts, followed two months later by "ABC". Thousands of letters from across the country poured into our mailbox. Responding to the Jackson's first tour, one reader wrote: "Those youngsters performed in a manner that could be harmful to one's health. The heart can only stand so much soul, and their performance was definately an overdose." Over the next decade, Soul kept up with the Jackson family as a guest at parties, weddings, and concerts. We were also regular visitors to the family home, where Michael - soft-spoken, polite, curious, and quiet - was usually off by himself, drawing or playing with his snakes and other pets, while his older brothers, cousins and visitors played basketball. But when Soul stopped publishing in 1980, I lost touch with the family. And then Michael became a pop-culture superstar, changing the face of music, dance, fashion, and music video with hit after hit. He was idolized and chased by fans and media wherever he went. He took an art form, refined and packaged it, and became an international icon. The American Music Awards recently named him the Artist of the Century. When it comes to the King of Pop, the world is insatiable.

You can tell a lot about someone by the people who work for him. Arriving at Michael's 2700-acre Neverland Valley Ranch in Los Olivos, Calif., north of Santa Barbara, I'm greeted by some of the 70-odd members of Michael's exceedingly friendly staff, which helps the self-proclaimed King of Pop maintain the comples and welcomes busloads of visitors a year, mostly kids who suffer terminal illnesses. Dressed in black slacks, white socks, black loafers, and a soft yellow shirt, Michael greets me with a warm smile hello and a big hug. He then excuses himself to see about his son, Prince, 5, and daughter Paris, 3, who have just returned from a long walk and are excitedly chattering to their dad about their day. The governess, who closely resembles Michael's mother, Katherine, suggests I have a brief look around the ranch before dark. So I take off in a battery-powered golf cart, while Michael spends some time with his babies. I discover an amusement park, playground, train station, arcade, swiming pool, Jacuzzi, bumper-car tent, and various areas where anumals roam free. I spot a llama, a parrot, a cheetah, a pony, and several deer. Michael is ready to talk when I return 45 minutes later. I've brought along a bound volume of Soul, and he looks at the old photographs and laughs at himself, his brothers and a picture of Diana Ross. "Do you remember interviewing me when I was little?" he asks, reminding me of the time Soul talked to him through his "interpreter," Janet. "It wasn't a game, it was real," he says. "I felt afraid. I felt that if my sister was there, the person would go easier on me." Often very animated, Michael goes from a whisper to raucous laughter in a split second. The only matter that he refuses to address is his plastic surgery. "That's a stupid question," he says. "That's one reason I didn't do interviews for years." At a time when stars routinely boast about their Bentleys and blingbling, Michael is singularly modest. He brushes off a question about his financial health - there have been recent reports of trouble - saying only, "I'm taken care of fine." Michael makes money when he sleeps. He owns half of Sony/ATV Music Publishing, which includes most of the Beatles catalog as well as songs by Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Babyface, and Elvis. At 43, Michael is indisputably back. Invincible, his first album in four years, was No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart. His two sold-out tribute shows at Madison Square Garden last September (just before the terrorist attacks) were later aired as a CBS special watched by more than 25.7 million viewers, making it that network's highest- rated music special of all time. As we resume the conversation that began so many years ago, I discover that, in spite of all the flash and tumult of Michael's time in the spotlight, he's remarkable unchanged - still caring, inquisitive, and sensitive.

VIBE: How is it to be competing for sales with the likes of 'N Sync and Britney Spears, children who were basically born at the height of your fame?

MJ: It's a rarity. I had No. 1 records in 1969 and '70, and still entered the charts in 2001 at No. 1. I don't think any other artist has that range. It's a great honor. I'm happy, I don't know what else to say. I'm glad people accept what I do.

VIBE: What are your thoughts on the current state of R&B?

MJ: I don't categorize music. Music is music. They changed the word R&B to rock n' roll. It was always been, from Fats Domino to Little Richard to Chuck Berry. How can we discriminate? Its what it is - great music, you know.

VIBE: Are you feeling hip hop?

MJ: I like a lot of it, a lot of it. I like the music. I don't like the dancing that much. It looks like they're doing aerobics.

VIBE: How did you decide to feature Biggie Smalls on "Unbreakable", off Invincible?

MJ: It wasn't my idea, actually. It was Rodney Jerkins's, one of the writer/producers working on the album. It was my idea to put a rap part on the song, and he said, "I know just the perfect on - Biggie." He put it in, and it worked perfectly.

VIBE: Why did you choose Jay-Z for the remix of the first single, "You Rock My World"?

MJ: He's hip, the new thing, and he's with the kids today. They like his work. He's tapped into the nerve of popular culture. It just made good sense.

VIBE: What was it like for you to appear at New York's Hot 97 Summer Jam concert as Jay-Z's guest?

MJ: I just showed up and gave him a hug. There was a tumultuous explosion of applause and stomping, a lovely, lovely welcome, and I was happy about that. It was a great feeling - the love, the love.

VIBE: Does it bother you to see people emulate you, such as Usher, Sisqo, Ginuwine, and even Destiny's Child?

MJ: I don't mind it at all. These are artists who grew up with my music. When you grow up listening to somebody you admire, you tend to become them. You want to look like them, to dress like them. When I was little, I was James Brown, I was Sammy Davis Jr., so I understand. It's a compliment.

VIBE: Did you know that you were creating timeless classics when you were recording Thriller and Off The Wall?

MJ: Yes, not to be arrogant, but yes. Because I know great material when I hear it, and meoldically and sonically and musically, it's so moving. They keep the promise.

VIBE: Do you feel there's a greater acceptance of black artists these days?

MJ: I think people have always admired black music since the beginning of time, if you want to go back to Negro spirituals. Today, the market is just accepting of the fact that that's the sound. From Britney to 'N Sync, they're all doing the R&B thing. Even Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees he always tells me [immitating a British accent], "Man, we do R&B." I say, Barry, I don't categorize it, but it's great music. I understand where he's coming from. I love great music - it has no color, it has no boundaries.

VIBE: You seem to be enjoying life as a single parent.

MJ: I never had so much fun in all my life. That's the truth. Beacause I'm this big kid, and now I get to see the world through the eyes of the really young ones. I learn more from them than they learn from me. I'm constantly trying things and testing things on them to see what works and what doesn't. Children are always the best judges to monitor something. If you can get the kids, you've got it. That's why Harry Potter is so successful - it's a family-oriented movie. You can't go wrong there. We want a wide demographic, and that's why I try not to say things in my lyrics that offend parents. I don't want to be like that. We weren't raised to be like that. Mother and Joseph [Michael's father] wouldn't say stuff like that.

VIBE: What do Prince and Paris listen to?

MJ: They listen to all of my music, and they love classical, which plays all around the ranch. They like any good dance music.

VIBE: How would you feel about your children becoming pop icons, based upon your experience?

MJ: I don't know how they would handle that. It would be tough. I really don't know. It's hard, since most of the children of celebrities end up becoming self-destructive because they can't live up to the talent of the parent. People used to always say to Fred Astaire Jr., "Can you dance?" And he couldn't. He didn't have any rhythm, but his father was this genius dancer. It doesn't mean that it has to be passed on. I always tell my children, You don't have to sing, you don't have to dance. Be who you want to be, as long as you're not hurting anybody. That's the main thing.

VIBE: Which artists - past and present - inspire you?

MJ: Stevie Wonder is a musical prophet. All of the early Motown. All the Beatles. I'm crazy about Sammy Davis Jr., Charlie Chaplin, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson - the real entertainers, the real thing, not just gimmicks, showstoppers. When James Brown was with the Famous Flames, it was unbelievable. There are so many wonderful singers - Whitney Houston, Barbra Streisand, Johnny Mathis. Real stylists. You hear one line, and you know who it is. Nat "King" Cole, great stuff. Sam Cooke - they are all ridiculous.

VIBE: How involved were you in selecting the artists to perform in your 30th anniversary special?

MJ: I wasn't involved at all.

VIBE: How were you able to let go of something so big and so special?

MJ: Trust.

VIBE: What was your experience on September 11?

MJ: I was in New York [after performing at Madison Square Garden on September 7 and 10], and I got a call from friends in Saudi Arabia that America was being attacked. I turned on the news and saw the Twin Towers coming down, and I said, Oh my God. I screamed down the hotel hallway to our people, Everybody get out, let's leave now! Marlon Brando was on one end, our security was on the other end. We were all up there, but Elizabeth Taylor was at another hotel. We all got out of there as quickly as we could. We jumped in the car, but there were these girls who had been at the show the night before, and they were banging on the windows, running down the street screaming. Fans are so loyal. We hid in New Jersey. It was unbelievable - I was scared to death.

VIBE: On another tip altogether, what do you do for recreation?

MJ: I like water-balloon fights. We have a water-balloon fort here, and we have a red team and a blue team. We have slings and cannons, and you are drenched by the time the game is over. There's a timer, and whoever gets the most points is the winner. If I'm going to do some kind of sport, I have to laugh. I don't do anything like basketball or golf. Basketball is very competitive, and so is tennis; they make you angry. I'm not into that. It should be therapeutic. I also like to go to amusement parks, hang out with animals, things like that.

VIBE: Do you have a fantasy of something that you'd like to see in your lifetime?

MJ: I would like to see an international children's holiday to honor our children, because the family bond has been broken. There's a Mother's Day, and there's a Father's Day, but there's no children's day. It would mean a lot. It really would. World peace. I hope that our next generation will get to see a peaceful world, not the way things are going now.

VIBE: Has singing ever stopped being fun and become work?

MJ: It's always been fun. Unless I get physically sick, it's always fun. I still love it.

VIBE: Many of us see you as a historic figure, an innovator who has set a standard that still exists in music. Where does Michael Jackson go from here?

MJ: Thank you, thank you. I have a deep love for film and I want to pioneer and innovate in the medium of film - to write and direct and produce movies, to bring incredible entertainment.

VIBE: What kinds of movies? Are you looking at scripts?

MJ: Yes, but nothing has been finalized yet.

VIBE: Are you ever lonely?

MJ: Of course. If I'm onstage, I'm fine there. But you can have a house full of people and still be lonely from within. I'm not complaining, because I think it's a good thing for my work.

VIBE: Tell me about the inspiration for "Speechless". It's very loving.

MJ: You'll be surprised. I was with these kids in Germany, and we had a big water- balloon fight - I'm serious - and I was so happy after the fight that I ran upstairs in their house and wrote "Speechless". Fun inspires me. I hate to say that, because it's such a romantic song. But it was the fight that did it. I was happy, and I wrote it in it's entirety right there. I felt it would be good enough for the album. Out of the bliss comes magic, wonderment, and creativity.

VIBE: Do you collect anything?

MJ: I like anything to do with Shirley Temple, the Little Rascals, and the Three Stooges. I love Curly. I love him so much that I did a book on him. I got a hold of his daughter, and we wrote the book together.

VIBE: Is there anything that you would like to say to VIBE readers?

MJ: I love Quincy Jones. I really do. And also, I want to tell the readers not to judge a person by what they hear, or even what they read, unless they hear it from the person himself. There is so much tabloid sensationalism. Don't fall prey to it, it's ugly. I'd like to take all he tabloids and burn them. I want you to print that! Some of them try to diguise themselves, but they are still the tabloids.

VIBE: Finally, how do you channel your creativity?

MJ: I don't force it, I let nature take its course. I don't sit at the piano and think, I'm going to write the greatest song of all time. It doesn't happen. It has to be given to you. I believe it's already up there before you are born, and then it drops right into your lap. It's the most spiritual thing in the world. When it comes, it comes with all the accompaniments, the strings, the bass, the drums, the lyrics, and you're just the medium through which it comes, the channel. Sometimes I feel guilty putting my name on songs - "written by Michael Jackson - because it's as if the heavens have done it already. Like Michelangelo would have this huge piece of marble from the quaries of Italy, and he'd say, "Inside is a sleeping form." He takes a hammer and chisel, and he's just freeing it. It's already in there. It's already there. Interview with Gold Magazine (2002)

Michael Jackson is the king of pop, the man who made the biggest-selling album in history; a man whose dance routines and tunes have entranced people in every corner of the globe, from Johannesburg to Jakarta, from London to L.A.

But he is also an enigma. A child star with his siblings in the Jackson Five, he comes from an immensely talented family and, as youngest son, carved for himself the most successful solo career of all of them. He is one of the few world-famous children who have gone on to become world-famous adults; and now he is reinventing himself again, as a film star.

Despite his fame, despite the fact that he has been performing, creating and improvising almost since he was old enough to walk, Jackson is shy of publicity. He may have hordes of fans and photographers surrounding him whenever he steps out in public, but he is an intensely private man who lives with his family on his fairy-tale Neverland ranch in California. In this rare interview, he talks candidly to Magdalena, the Gold Girl, about fame, the burden of his childhood stardom, his view on the media, and his future in film.

Gold Girl: Do you most see yourself as a musician, an entertainer or an entrepreneur?

Michael Jackson: Probably all of the above, because I love entertaining and I always will love entertaining. I love becoming a slave to rhythm. because dancing is about interpreting the sounds and accompaniments of the orchestra. You know,you be come the sound, you become the bass, you become whatever you hear, and you do it bodily. But I try not to get so caught up in it all that you don't think about your future. So many great entertainers have just been taken in the past, and they ended up lonely, sad and broken. I've always said to myself, I never want to be that way and I'm going to try my hardest to learn about the business side, support myself, invest my money, save. Who knows what tomorrow brings? You want to be protected financially so you can support yourself.

GG: Would you like to be remembered as a great entertainer?

MJ: I love movies and I love art - and an architect is an entertainer, the guy who builds a rollercoaster is an entertainer. He knows where to build the slopes, and the big anticipation when you go up... He makes you go, 'Oh my God!' when you get to the top before you come down. It's just the same as structuring a show or a dance.

GG: Does it ever become a burden to be one of the most recognized stars in the world?

MJ: There's nowhere in the world I can actually go and have privacy. The thing that hurts the most is the fact that your privacy is taken away from you. To use the silly _expression, you live in a fishbowl, but it's true. I do disguises... People know them all, it's very hard, very hard.

GG: What kind of disguises?

MJ: Bat suits, buck teeth, glasses, afros, prosthetics, make-up jobs, everything. Just to sit in the audience and experience it the way an audience would experience a show; I want to feel how they feel.

GG: Do they find you out?

MJ: Sometimes, yes. In the beginning, no. Then they start looking me in the eyes. I put these things on and then they start looking behind the glasses... Girls are very smart, you know. You can trick a guy quicker than you can trick a girl. Women can just pick it up. They know the way you move your body, the way you walk, the way you gesture. I hear them go, 'Look at the way he moves his hand', or ' Look at the way he was walking', and I think, ' Oh no.'

GG: If You were invisible for a day in London, what would you do?

MJ: Oh boy. Who would I like to slap? Let me see {laughs}... I think I'd find one of the tabloid paparazzi and kick his ass , moonwalk style. I'd really like to knock them off one of those little scooters they ride around on, I really would, knock the cameras right out of their hands. They're so annoying. I'd go for them first, yeah. They drive you nuts. You can't get away from them. It's terrible.

GG: Who has inspired you the most professionally, and who do you relate to?

MJ: Probably Walt Disney; because when I was little I grew up in an adult world. I grew up on stage. I grew up in night clubs. When I was seven, eight years old I was in nightclubs. I saw striptease girls take off all their clothes. I saw fights break out. I saw people throw up on each other. I saw adults act like pigs. That's why to this day I hate clubs. I don't like going to clubs - I did that already, I've been there. That's why I compensate now for what I didn't do then. So when you come to my house, you'll see I have rides, I have a movie theatre, I have animals. I love animals - elephants and giraffes and lions and tigers and bears, all kinds of snakes. I get to do all those wonderful things that I didn't get to do when I was little, because we didn't have those things. We didn't have Christmas. We didn't have sleepovers. We didn't have school, we had private school when we were touring. I didn't go to a state school. We tried it for two weeks and it didn't work. It was very difficult. It's hard growing up a celebrity child. Very few make that transition from child star to adult star. It's very difficult. I relate to Shirley Temple. I met her in San Francisco and I sat at her table and I cried so bad. She said, 'What's wrong Michael?' I said, 'I love you. I need to be around you more.' She goes, 'You're one of us, aren't you?' and I said 'Yes, I am.' Somebody else said, 'What do you mean?' and she said, 'Michael knows what I mean.' And I know exactly what she meant - to have been there as a child star and to have graduated to have succeeded in making that transition to fame as an adult is very difficult. When you're a child star people don't want you to grow up. They want you to stay little for ever. They don't want you to work afterwards. It's very hard.

GG: Tell me more about your interests in theme parks - what is it about them that interests you?

MJ: My favorite thing about theme parks - and I have a pretty good outlook on it because I've traveled the world many times over - is I love seeing people simply come together with their families and have fun. It really does bring them closer together. I go for fun, but I also go to study. I go after hours to most parks because I can't go in the regular hours. They're kind of like a ghost town.

GG: I hear you have some ideas for a theme park in Las Vegas?

MJ: I've done many projects in Las Vegas, and what I think I've done is I've widened the demographic there. Because when I was a little kid - I was no more than eight years old - my brothers and I would go to Las Vegas, and at that time kids weren't even allowed to walk on a casino floor. So we used to stay up in our rooms, bored, with nothing to do while everyone else gambled. There was only one place for kids in Vegas at the time, called Circus Circus. It was a hotel and the theme they had there was clowns, So there was a trapeze man and there were chimps doing the little unicycles. When I got older we played Vegas a lot - we performed there many, many times - and I thought about it and I said, 'It's really not fair that there's nothing here for children,' so I started to conceive a couple of ideas for certain hotel owners. And now it's like the family-themed vacation kingdom, it really is.

GG: Who are your favorite people?

MJ: I love people who have really contributed to the pleasure and happiness of the planet and mankind, people with light - from Walt Disney to Gandhi to Edison to Martin Luther King. These are people with light, people who really cared about children, bringing families together, and love. That's what I try to say in my music and in my songs. If you go to one of my concerts, my shows, you will see 200,000 people swaying, holding candles, saying, 'We want to heal the world,' and 'We love you.' I've seen it around the world from Russia to Germany to Poland to Africa to America. We're all the same. People cry in the same places in the show. They get angry in the same places in the show, they get the pathos in the same places.

GG: Was Fred Astaire your friend?

MJ: Yes. Fred Astaire was my neighbor. I used to see him every day when I was riding my little motorscooter. He always told me, he would always say when I was a little kid, 'You're gonna be a big star.' He told me that he thought I was an incredible entertainer and a great mover. And he always used to say, 'You're the best,' and I'd say, 'No, you're the best.' I remember the first time I did the moonwalk. Fred called me at home. He was screaming on the phone, raving. He said it was the best performance he'd ever seen. I said, 'Oh, come on.' He said, 'Michael, you put them on their ass.You're a hell of a mover. You're a hell of a dancer.' I said, 'Well, coming from you, I don't need any awards.' Because I was nominated for an Emmy for that performance, and I didn't get it, but it didn't matter to me because Fred Astaire said he loved my performance, and that's all the award I needed.

GG: If you could work with anyone, alive or dead, who would that be?

MJ: If I could work with anybody it would be Charlie Chaplin, who I love so much. Also, Laurence Oliver was a genius, really.Those two guys, I think. And also the king, Brando.

GG: Last year you put together a short film, You Rock My World, with the assistance of Marlon Brando. What was it like working with the master?

MJ: Brando is a good friend of mine. He's very much like me. He doesn't go many places. He comes to Neverland or he stays in my house in Mulholland Drive, or he goes to Tahiti. His son worked for me for more than 20 years, and his other son was in my class in private school. He's just a giant. You see, Brando's smart, because when he works with me he always says, 'I know what buttons to push to get emotion from you.' He knows me so well. He knows how to get me ticked off, so he'll say certain things to get me really geared up. He's a genius. He's a king. He's the last of that generation. He's a brilliant man, a lovely person. I love him and he's my good friend.

GG: You had a cameo in Men In Black II, was that fun to work on?

MJ: The Men In Black project really was a lot of fun because I introduced myself as the new guy.

GG: It was obvious from the video of Thriller that you have a great interest in the visual arts.

MJ: Everything I do I like either to direct myself, or work closely with the director - we co-direct and come up with the ideas together. If you look at Ghosts, it says co- written by Michael Jackson and Stephen King. We wrote it on the telephone, Stephen and I - he's a lovely guy, he's amazing. We wrote it on the phone, just talking together.

GG: Who are the figures in the movie business you most admire, and why?

MJ: I just love Robert De Niro. I think he's such a multi-faceted actor. He can play anything from a comedian to a priest to a psychopathic killer to an idiot to a charming uncle to just anything. And of course, any of the great dancers.

GG: Who would be your ideal leading lady, and why?

MJ: An actress? {laughs} You and I should do a film together. Let's do it, I'd love that...

GG: There was talk of you going to the moon to perform an authentic moonwalk here. Is there any truth in this?

MJ: {laughs} There is some truth in it. It's not a rumor. I'll just say that.

GG: You outbid Paul McCartney for the Beatles archive. What was so special about it?

MJ: No, I didn't, he didn't bid for it. It was for sale and I liked it and I bought it, like buying a piece of art.

GG: Tell me more about your passion for children's charities. Which organizations do you support?

MJ: Well, I have a charity for kids that I created myself, called Heal the World. And whenever I do a concert or anything pertaining to entertainment, I give a certain amount to Heal the World - you know orphanages, hospitals, kids who need a lung or a liver, we'll find it, we'll pay for the surgery. On tour, I do as many hospitals and orphanages as I do concerts. We go to 12-years-olds and we take boxes and boxes and boxes of toys, a bunch of Michael Jackson posters and paraphernalia. They love it.

GG: How much more do you feel you want to achieve in your life?

MJ: I'm never satisfied. There are so many different avenues and so many different things that I want to do. I've done a lot, but I don't think it's enough, which is why I don't put up any awards or anything in my house. You won't see any awards in my house, I put them all away in storage. Because if you get caught up in that, you start to feel like, 'Oh, man, I did it.' There's so much more, so many more mountains to climb.

GG: If one of your children came to you and said, 'Dad, I want to be a pop star,' what's the best advise you could give them?

MJ: The best advise that I would give them is it's a lot of hard work, and be prepared, because it's not all joy all the time. And that you've got to have rhinoceros skin, because the bigger the star, the bigger the target. The tabloid press are *******s, and you've got to have rhinoceros skin to deal with that kind of ignorance mentality. They do it simply to sell papers, because bad news sell, not good news. They simply make it up. If they don't have anything, they just make it up. I'm nothing like the way the tabloids have painted me out to be, nothing. Nothing like that. They're the ones who are crazy. They're ignorant. I always say to my fans 'Let's have a tabloid burning. Let's make a big mountain out of tabloids and just burn them.' The real fans who love me know that garbage isn't true. They know. They're smart.

GG: Have you always wanted to do film? If your family had not been such successful musicians, would you have turned to it earlier in your life?

MJ: I've always wanted to do film, but the tours got in the way. That's why I want to take several years off just doing film. I'd like to get six great movies behind me, and then I'll do a little bit of touring, then I'll do more filming.

GG: What kind of ideas do you have for film?

MJ: I have ideas for film and movement and dance and things that people have never seen. I can't wait to just surprise people. That's why I've been dying to start a film production company, and I'm very excited that that's what we're doing with Neverland Pictures. I get to just have a clean slate and play and create and sculpt.

GG: Tell me a little bit about the werewolf idea in your films, and how does it relate to video?

MJ: I haven't read the script yet for Wolfed - it's one of the movies that we're going to be making and I'm really excited about it. I'm so happy to be working with Sammy Lee {the co-writer of Music Box, who recently acquired 'first look' rights to Jackson's films}. We're doing some great projects together in film, and I'm really excited.

GG: And Wolfed will be the first film?

MJ: As of now, our schedule says that Wolfed will be the first film. That's going to be fun. I want it to be really scary. Rick Baker wants to do all the visual effects. He has seven Academy awards. Rick is very excited about it too - he did American Werewolf in London. He won an Oscar, and he said, 'Michael, that was nothing.' That's nothing compared to what he can do today. And he did Thriller and he said of that, 'It's nothing'. He can go way beyond that. He did all the Eddie Murphy films, Clumps and Nutty Professor and all that Men In Black stuff too. He does all that.

GG: So tell me how you would like to be remembered?

MJ: How would I like to be remembered? As a person who came and brought light to the world, some escapism. Also as the voice for the voiceless children, because I love them. I'm living for the children. If it weren't for the kids, I would throw in the towel. A baby, a child - now that's amazing. They're little geniuses, you know, little geniuses. They really are.

GG: Do you enjoy being a father?

MJ: It's my favorite thing. I love it. I love it. I love it.

GG: The other day I saw you pick up your daughter when she was sleeping. You just picked her up, and I could see the joy in your face...

MJ: Oh, I love them. The Jacksons have a lot of kids. I have a lot of nephews and nieces. There's a lot of us!

GG: What is your relationship with your brothers and sisters?

MJ: I love my brothers and sisters. When I'm with them we laugh. It's like a different version of yourself. We can just laugh and giggle and talk about old times. We're not together as much as we'd like to be. We're all busy. We're all in show. We're always doing something. If I'm in town, Janet's out of town. If we're both here, my brother's somewhere else. Everybody's running around, you know.

GG: Are you a family man? What do you like doing with your family?

MJ: My personal family? My Children? We love just sitting together, talking, shooting the breeze. We sit by the lake. I take the for a walk every day at my house. We sit by the lake and we throw rocks in the water and we just talk.

GG: What do you think is the deepest form of love someone can feel? And have you felt it?

MJ: Wow, I think that's really a matter of opinion. Have I felt the deepest form of love? I don't know what would be the deepest... {long pause} and interesting question... {repeats question a few times}. I love my children very, very much, and I always look in their eyes and tell them that - I think that's the most important thing. Rick Dees Interview (2003) Wednesday, 10 September 2003

RD: Mike it's Rick Dees!

MJ:Rick, how are you?

RD: How are you?

MJ: How you been doin'?

RD: Couldn't be better sir, and you're in Toronto now?

MJ: Yes, I'm in Toronto. I just decided to come up here and write music.

RD: You know who else is living in Toronto right now? Prince. Prince decided to move from Minneapolis to Toronto.

MJ: The singer?

RD: Yes, Prince the singer.

MJ: You're kidding!

RD: And he and his wife...in fact, Jimmy Jam told me they're living there now.

MJ: Jimmy Jam is so nice.

RD: Isn't he the best?

MJ: Yeah...

RD: I wanna thank you for what you're doing on Saturday. Everybody is so incredibly jazzed. Now I have seen your wonderful, beautiful ranch. But most people just fantasize about what it would be like to just walk the grounds...and now we're going to get a chance. Now will you be there?

MJ: Uh...yes I will be there.

RD: Alright!!

(girl in background): That's what we wanted to hear.

MJ: Yep, I will be there.

RD: Commander Chuck (?) said that he really enjoyed taking up in the helicopter.

MJ: aww that guy is so nice.

RD: He had 20, 000 hours and he said that it was just a wonderful experience and that you had wanted to see the ranch from a mountain, like in the back where the forest is.

MJ: Right, Mount Katharine.

RD: He said that Mount Katharine is almost 29,000 feet...

(laughter)

RD: No, no, I'm just saying...how tall is she?

MJ: To be honest really, I don't know...really tall...

RD: When I was there, Sophia Loren's sons were there that afternoon...

MJ: They were riding quads.

RD: Yes, we were riding quads and that was the first time anybody ever saw an ATV. And it was wonderful but at the same time I didn't want to leave...that's probably how you feel when you leave, isn't it?

MJ: Aw God bless you, thank you. You know you're always welcome. You know that.

RD: That's a nice thing to say Michael. And you know that Saturday is very special too because I don't think that people understand that there are different ways to raise money for great causes, but you opening your home to Make A Wish and other foundations is really special to us.

MJ: Aw God bless you, thank you so much.

RD: Can you catch us up to speed, now, over the last few months....first of all, how are the kids, are they doing alright?

MJ: All the children are fine.

RD: Chuck said that they are absolutely well behaved and are the nicest...but at the same time of the last 6 or 7 months or so, how busy have you been?

MJ: I'm always busy. I never stop. I'm a workaholic. I love working.

RD: You really do love it, don't you?

MJ: Yes, I love it.

RD: So you've been in Toronto...have you written any songs?

MJ: Yes, very much.

RD: I'd like you to meet Ellen Kaye...

EK: I was waiting for my formal introduction.

RD: Michael, this is Ellen Kaye...

MJ: Hello, Ellen, how are you?

EK: Hi, Michael, it's nice to meet you, finally.

MJ: You too.

EK: I hope one day you can come in the studio cuz we'd love to just...be around you. And bring the kids.

MJ: Oh I'd love that, that'll be cool, I love this station...it's wonderful.

RD: The last we talked, you said you keep in shape solely by dancing. And when I saw the shot of you...I think it was about 2 or 3 weeks ago...you're still in really good shape. It's still just dance that keeps you in shape?

MJ: I like to dance around to music that I like.

RD: Mm hm.

EK: And chasing two kids, that'll keep you in shape.

MJ: Yes, running after two kids...

EK: I have 2 toddlers myself and once they get those tennis shoes on, there's no slowing down.

MJ: I know....it's mainly that I enjoy dancing....and I walk around the lake at Neverland.

RD: And I'd like to point out ...the lake at Neverland, it's right in the very front, at least one of them...and you just wanna dive in. It really is.

MJ: Thank you.

RD: Now Prince and Paris, how are they different? What are their likes and dislikes? What can you tell , as a parent, you know, 'Prince likes this, Paris likes this'.

MJ: Well they like, in truth, they like the same things. Prince, he doesn't like girl toys. I always wanted a daughter, and through all the years I've toured, I bought all these dolls, and I filled the room up full of dolls for when I have a daughter....and that would be her bedroom. And the first time I brought her in there, when she was old enough to walk, she just walked right passed it. (laughs)...she likes boy toys. She likes trucks, cars...whatever prince wants, she wants.

RD: You're kidding! There's a whole room of dolls and she just walk right through them?

MJ: Yeah...(laughs)

RD: The first time I met Michael, well the first time we met each other was on a TV show, but the first time we got to socialize, it was at place called Robby's Hobbies. And we both got into one of those little radio controlled cars...

EK: I like those too.

MJ: yeah....

RD: And they were so much fun.

MJ: That's a great memory.

RD: Well thank you. So I had a jeep made up for Michael. And he would take it on tour. And he would hide behind like a curtain or something, and this car would just show up at someone's feet. And it would stop, and they would jump around, and he'd bring the car back to him. They never knew it was Mike behind the controls! (laughs)

MJ: (laughs)

RD: So it was fun.

EK: That was cool.

MJ: Great fun.

RD: So now Michael, we're gonna have a huge party, do you mind...obviously we're not gonna tear up the house or anything...what rules should we put down?

MJ: Just to be kind to one another, and have a great time. I'll be kinda watching from a distance and enjoying it. I hope I can get to say hi to you.

RD: Oh absolutely. When you go back to your bedroom, like really late?

MJ: Yeah?

RD: I'll be in your closet.

(laughter)

EK: Oh stop it! You don't have to take that Michael! (laughs)

RD: Again, on behalf of Make A Wish, Michael thank you so much.

MJ: God bless you and say hi to your wonderful family.

RD: Oh I certainly will. Julie says hi too.

MJ: Aww! Tell her I said hi!

RD: She knows so many little stories about Mike...they're buddies.

MJ: Yeah...she's a sweet person.

EK: I can't wait to see your animals on the ranch, cuz I'm a huge animal lover so..

MJ: Oh there are lots of animals.

EK: yeah, cool.

RD: You still have the trampoline?

MJ: Yes we found the rattlesnake. (laughs)

RD: Kevin Dees was asking about that.

MJ: We found that snake, remember?

RD: Oh yeah! We went out in the woods, and this is way way away from his home so don't be afraid, but Michael and I found a baby rattlesnake.

EK: Oooo now those are really potent, cuz their poison is even stronger cuz it's more concentrated.

RD: Now Michael is walking up to the snake and about four guys jumps in front of him and say, "What? Are you crazy?? Not with your CD just released!"

MJ: (laughs)

EK: (laughs) Yeah cuz people will take a bite for him.

RD: So a couple of guys took the hit like (makes punching noises)..."It didn't hurt Michael" (punching noises)

MJ: Yeah that was something. It was fun.

RD: That was something else. They called him Rattlin' Rick. Hey Mike, we'll see ya on Saturday okay?

MJ: Okay, Rick. God bless you.

RD: God bless you.

MJ: And say hi to everybody.

RD: My best to Prince and Paris too.

MJ: Oh God bless you, thank you!

RD: Michael Jackson. Rick Dees in the morning. That's what it's all about. The world exclusive interview--he'll only do it once--and thank you for choosing us Michael. 60 Minutes Interview (2003)

NEW YORK, Dec. 28, 2003

(CBS) For most of his life, Michael Jackson has been in the spotlight, most recently because of what has been described as bizarre behavior -— bizarre behavior that has now led him to be charged with sexually molesting a 13-year-old boy. If convicted, he could spend 20 years in prison.

Now out on bail and awaiting trial, tonight Michael Jackson speaks out for the first time about his arrest, his accuser and the charges that have, for the moment, made his life a shambles.

We sat down with Michael Jackson on Christmas Day at a hotel in Los Angeles –one of several cities where he has been in seclusion since authorities in Santa Barbara officially charged him with seven counts of sexual molestation and two counts of using an “intoxicating agent” — reported to be alcohol — to seduce the boy.

ED BRADLEY: What is your response to the allegations that were brought by the district attorney in Santa Barbara, that you molested this boy?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Totally false. Before I would hurt a child, I would slit my wrists. I would never hurt a child It's totally false. I was outraged. I could never do something like that

ED BRADLEY: This is a kid you knew?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.

ED BRADLEY: How would you characterize your relationship with this boy?

MICHAEL JACKSON: I've helped many, many, many children, thousands of children, cancer kids, leukemia kids. This is one of many.

Michael Jackson says his accuser is among thousands of children he’s invited to his 2,600—acre Neverland Ranch in California to play in his amusement park, visit his zoo, watch movies, play video games, and feast on their favorite foods.

ED BRADLEY: But tell me why you developed Neverland.

MICHAEL JACKSON: Because I wanted to have a place that I could create everything that I that I never had as a child. So, you see rides. You see animals. There's a movie theater. I was always on tour, traveling. You know? And — I never got a chance to do those things. So, I compensated for the loss by — I have a good — I mean, I can't go into a park. I can't go to Disneyland, as myself. I can't go out and walk down the street. There's crowds, and bumper to bumper cars. And so, I create my world behind my gates. Everything that I love is behind those gates. We have elephants, and giraffes, and crocodiles, and every kind of tigers and lions. And — and we have bus loads of kids, who don't get to see those things. They come up sick children, and enjoy it. They enjoy it in a pure, loving, fun way. It's people with the dirty mind that think like that. I don't think that way. That's not me.

ED BRADLEY: And — and do you think people look at you and think that way today?

MICHAEL JACKSON: If they have a sick mind, yeah. And if they believe the trash they read in newspapers, yeah. And — and it's not — what — just cause — remember something. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the gospel. People write negatives things, cause they feel that's what sells. Good news to them, doesn't sell.

And Jackson says his relationship with this boy he first met a year ago was positive. He says he was determined to help him with his battle against cancer.

ED BRADLEY: So when he would come over what would he do? What would you do?

MICHAEL JACKSON: I'll tell you exactly. When I first saw him, he was totally bald—headed, white as snow from the chemotherapy, very bony, looked anorexic, no eyebrows, no eyelashes. And he was so weak, I would have to carry him from the house to the game room, or push him in a wheelchair, to try to give him a childhood, a life. Cause I felt bad. Because I never had that chance, too, as a child. You know? That the— and so, I know what it— it felt like in that way. Not being sick, but not having had a childhood. So, my heart go out to those children I feel their pain.

Jackson says he tried to help in the healing process by taking the boy around the grounds of Neverland to Jackson’s favorite places.

MICHAEL JACKSON: He had never really climbed a tree. So, I had this tree that I have at Neverland. I call it, "My Giving Tree." Cause I like to write songs up there. I've written many songs up there. So, I said, "You have to climb a tree. That's part of boyhood. You just gotta do it." And — I helped him up. And once he went up — up the tree, we looked down on the branches. And it was so beautiful. It was magical. And he loved it. To give him a chance to have a life, you know? Because he was told he was going to die. They told him. They told his — his parents prepare for his funeral, that's how bad it was. And I put him on a program. I've helped many children doing this. I put him on a mental program.

The boy — whose name and face we’re not revealing — has credited Michael Jackson’s friendship and support with helping him to battle his cancer. And last February in a British documentary that was filmed before the boy alleged he was sexually molested — he said that he had stayed overnight at Jackson’s home many times, and had slept in his bedroom.

JACKSON ACCUSER: There was one night, I asked him if I could stay in the bedroom. And he let me stay in the bedroom. And I was like, Michael, you can sleep on the bed. And he was like, no, no you sleep in the bed. And then he finally said, ‘Okay, if you love me, you’ll sleep on the bed.’ I was like, ‘Oh, man.’ And so I finally slept on the bed.

That comment – along with Michael Jackson’s startling confession that he had shared his bed many times with children – spurred an investigation last February by the Los Angeles county department of children and family services, which interviewed the boy and his mother to determine whether he had been sexually molested by Michael Jackson.

According an agency’s memo, “the child denied any form of sexual abuse,” and “the investigation by the sensitive case unit concluded the allegations of neglect and sexual abuse to be unfounded.” Over the next several months, relations between the boy’s family and Michael Jackson deteriorated. According to sources close to the family, the boy’s mother had suspicions that Jackson was serving alcohol to her 13-year-old son, who was still suffering from cancer. Eventually she took her suspicions to the district attorney and that led to a full scale investigation by his office and the Santa Barbara County Sheriff.

SHERRIFF JIM ANDERSON: An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation. The bail amount of the award has been set at 3 million dollars.

REPORTER: If Michael Jackson’s watching this right now, what’s your message to him?

DISTRICT ATTORNEY THOMAS SNEDDON: Get over here and get checked in.

With that announcement two weeks ago, Michael Jackson’s future and his career were in serious jeopardy. He surrendered to authorities and was booked on child molestation charges of lewd and lascivious conduct with a child.

ED BRADLEY: What was going through your mind when you're taken into a police station, in handcuffs, to have a mug shot taken, that you know is gonna be shown around the world?

MICHAEL JACKSON: They did it to try and belittle me, to try and to take away my pride. But I went through the whole system with them. And at the end, I— I wanted the public to know that I was okay, even though I was hurting.

ED BRADLEY: What happened when they arrested you? What did they do to you?

MICHAEL JACKSON: They were supposed to go in, and just check fingerprints, and do the whole thing that they do when they take somebody in. They manhandled me very roughly. My shoulder is dislocated, literally. It's hurting me very badly. I'm in pain all the time. This is, see this arm? This is as far as I can reach it. Same with this side over here.

ED BRADLEY: Because of what happened at the police station?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah. Yeah. At the police station. And what they did to me — if you — if you saw what they did to my arms — it was very bad what they did. It's very swollen. I don't wanna say. You'll see. You'll see.

We were given a photograph said to be taken after Michael Jackson was released on bail. Jackson says the swelling above his wrist is where the police handcuffed him.

ED BRADLEY: How did they do it? I mean, what, physically, what did they do?

MICHAEL JACKSON: With the handcuffs, the way they tied 'em too tight behind my back —

ED BRADLEY: Behind your back?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah. And putting it, they put it in a certain position, knowing that it's going to hurt, and affect my back. Now I can't move. I — I — it keeps me from sleeping at night. I can't sleep at night.

And Jackson says there was more …

MICHAEL JACKSON: Then one time, I asked to use the restroom. And they said, "Sure, it's right around the corner there." Once I went in the restroom, they locked me in there for like 45 minutes. There was doo doo, feces thrown all over the walls, the floor, the ceiling. And it stunk so bad. Then one of the policemen came by the window. And he made a sarcastic remark. He said, "Smell — does it smell good enough for you in there? How do you like the smell? Is it good?" And I just simply said, "It's alright. It's okay." So, I just sat there, and waited.

ED BRADLEY: For 45 minutes?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah, for 45 minutes. About 45 minutes. And then — then one cop would — come by, and say, "Oh, you'll be out in — in a second. You'll be out in a second." Then there would be another ten minutes added on, then another 15 minutes added on. They did this on purpose.

What about Jackson's allegations? Was he mistreated? Did the police injure his arm and shoulder? Did they lock him in a bathroom for 45 minutes? To get answers to those questions, we made repeated calls to both the sheriff's office and the office of the district attorney. They declined our request for an interview and referred us to the statement on their Web site, which says about allegations of mistreatment: "That is not true." It was the sheriff's deputies who executed the search warrant of the Neverland ranch.

ED BRADLEY: How did you feel when they went into Neverland, I mean, with a search warrant? I mean, what were they looking for? What did they take?

MICHAEL JACKSON: My room is a complete wreck. My workers told me. They said, "Michael, don't go in your room." They were crying on the phone, my employees. They said, "If you saw your room, you would cry." I have stairs that go up to my bed. And they said, "You can't even get up the stairs. The room is totally trashed." And they had 80 policemen in this room, 80 policemen in one bedroom. That's really overdoing it. They took knives, and cut open my mattresses with knives. C — just cut everything open.

ED BRADLEY: Did — did they take anything from Neverland?

MICHAEL JACKSON: A— I'm not sure what they took. They never gave me a list.

ED BRADLEY: But you're saying that they destroyed your property?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes, they did. And then they, what they did was they made everybody that work at the property, they locked everybody out of the house. They had the whole house to themselves to do whatever they wanted. And — they totally took advantage. They went into areas they weren't supposed to go into — like my office. They didn't have search warrants for those places. And they totally took advantage. And the room is a total, total wreck, they told me. I don't think I wanna see it. I'm not ready to see it yet.

ED BRADLEY: So, you haven't been back there?

MICHAEL JACKSON: I've been back there. But not in my bedroom. I won't live there ever again. I'll visit Neverland. It's a house now. It's not a home anymore. I'll only visit there. What time is it? Cause I'm hurting. You know what? I'm — I'm hurting. I have to go pretty soon anyway. Yeah. Okay. I don't feel good.

This is not the first time Michael Jackson has been accused of child molestation. Ten years ago, he was accused of sexually abusing another young boy. However, after the boy refused to testify, and after Jackson paid the boy’s family millions of dollars to settle a civil lawsuit, Jackson was never charged. Although the family in the current case against him has filed no lawsuit and says it does not intend to, Michael Jackson is still suspicious of their motives.

MICHAEL JACKSON: Somewhere greed got in there, and somebody — I — I can't quite say. But it has to do with money. It's Michael Jackson. Look what we have here. We can get money out of this. That's exactly what happened.

ED BRADLEY: You had helped him with his cancer. What I don't understand is why today and I know you say it’s money, but why would he turn around and say, "Michael Jackson sexually molested me," if it weren't true?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Because parents have power over children. They feel they have to do what their parents say. But the love of money is the root of all evil. And this is a sweet child. And to see him turn like this, this isn't him. This is not him.

ED BRADLEY: So, you don't think this comes from him? This —

MICHAEL JACKSON: No.

ED BRADLEY: — Comes from his parents?

MICHAEL JACKSON: No. This is not him. No. I know his heart.

Jackson said that even if he could, he would never settle this case as he did when similar charges were made in 1993.

ED BRADLEY: So — if you were innocent, why would you pay, I mean, to keep you quiet? I mean, why not go into court, and fight for your good name? I mean —

MICHAEL JACKSON: I'm not allowed to talk on that —

MARK GERAGOS: I'm gonna stop you for a second.

ED BRADLEY: Sure.

Jackson’s high powered attorney Mark Geragos told me that if I wanted an answer to that question I’d have to ask him.

MARK GERAGOS: I mean remember what happened to him ten years ago. He was humiliated. He was — he went through where somebody — was examining him. Was photographing him. Was having him — humiliating him in the worst way in terms of looking at his private parts and photographing his private parts. And — and he was subjected to some of the most, just intrusive kinds of things that you could ever imagine. I can only try to put myself into that situation and — and say look, if money could make that situation go away, maybe that — that was the calculus then. I don't know and I don't wanna second guess it.

ED BRADLEY: But — but what you end up with is the public perception that this has happened not once, this has happened twice. That young boys have — have come forward to accuse him of — of sexual molestation over the last ten years. And he has made public comments about how he enjoys sharing his bed with children. Can you understand how the public might feel that, hey, maybe there's something here. There's a lot of smoke.

MARK GERAGOS: Well, look. There's a lot of smoke. But a lot of the people who blow the smoke are — are twisting what's happened. I understand when people say, now, there's somebody else who came forward. But I — I think, in all fairness, most people get it. Most people understand that this case is not about anything but money.

We asked the mother of the accuser who made these latest allegations to tell us her side of the story, but she declined and would not authorize anyone else to speak on her behalf.

ED BRADLEY: That British documentary last February — which you didn't like —

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah, I didn't like it.

ED BRADLEY: You — you said in that documentary that— that many children have slept in your bedroom.

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah.

ED BRADLEY: You said, and — and I'm gonna quote here, "Why can't you share your bed? A most loving thing to do is to share your bed with— with someone."

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.

ED BRADLEY: As — as we sit here today, do you still think that it's acceptable to share your bed with children?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Of course. Of course. Why not? If you're gonna be a pedophile, if you're gonna be Jack the Ripper, if you're gonna be a murderer, it's not a good idea. That I'm not. That's how we were raised. And I met — I didn't sleep in the bed with the child. Even if I did, it's okay. I slept on the floor. I give the bed to the child.

ED BRADLEY: But given all that you've been through —

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah?

ED BRADLEY: Given the allegations, given the innuendo — why would you put yourself in a position where something like this could happen again?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Well, I'm always more cautious. But I will never stop helping and loving people the way Jesus said to. He said, "Continue to love. Always love. Remember children. Imitate the children." Not childish, but childlike.

That may sound naïve, but Jackson attorney Mark Geragos says they did take precautions.

MARK GERAGOS: They were, at all times during that February 7 to March 10 period of time, whenever Michael was there, there was always a third party around. Always.

ED BRADLEY: What about the allegation that some kind of intoxicating agent, said to be wine, was given to this child to make him more pliable?

MARK GERAGOS: Ludicrous. I mean it's ludicrous on its face. There are in excess of 100 employees at any one time at that ranch. There is full—time security at that ranch. There are people who are there at all times, day and night, 24—7, who are specifically instructed to make sure that people don't do that. The kids are nowhere near alcohol and liquor.

ED BRADLEY: You're a parent. You've got three children.

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes.

ED BRADLEY: Would you allow your children to sleep in the bed with a grown man, who was not a relative, or to sleep in the bedroom?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Sure, if I know that person, trust them, and love them. That's happened many times with me when I was little.

ED BRADLEY: Would you, as a parent, allow your children to sleep in the same bedroom with someone, who has the suspicions and allegations that have been made against you, and about you today? Would you allow that?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Someone —

ED BRADLEY: If you knew someone, who had the same —

MICHAEL JACKSON: I'm not —

ED BRADLEY: —kind of allegations —

MICHAEL JACKSON: Ed, I — I know exactly what you're saying.

ED BRADLEY: — that were made against you — would you let your children —

MICHAEL JACKSON: My children?

ED BRADLEY: — sleep in that man's bedroom?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Mmm, if I — if I knew the person personally. Cause I know how the press is, and how people can twist the truth, if I knew the person personally, absolutely yes. Absolutely. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

ED BRADLEY: Do you know how this looks to a lot of people? I mean, do you understand that?

MICHAEL JACKSON: How does what look?

ED BRADLEY: How the fact that you —

MICHAEL JACKSON: Know why? People think sex. They're thinking sex. My mind doesn't run that way. When I see children, I see the face of God. That's why I love them so much. That's what I see.

ED BRADLEY: Do you know any other man your age, a 45-year-old man, who shares his bedroom with children?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Of course. Not for sex. No. That's wrong.

ED BRADLEY: Well, let me — let me say, from my perspective, my experience, I don't know any 45-year-old men, who are not relatives of the children, who share their bedroom with other children.

MICHAEL JACKSON: Well, what's wrong with sharing your bed? I didn't say I slept in the bed. Even if I did sleep in the bed, it's okay. I am not going to do anything sexual to a child. It's not where my heart is. I would never do anything like that. That's not Michael Jackson. I'm sorry. That's someone else.

And the Michael Jackson of today is not the Michael Jackson who at one time was the No. 1 pop star in the world. His "Thriller" CD topped the charts, while his latest didn’t crack the top 10.

ED BRADLEY: What — what has this done to your career?

MICHAEL JACKSON: What — what has it done to my career?

ED BRADLEY: What has it done to your career?

MICHAEL JACKSON: In what way?

ED BRADLEY: How has it impacted — you know —

MICHAEL JACKSON: I'm — my album —

ED BRADLEY: — touring, record sales —

MICHAEL JACKSON: — album is number one all over the world. All over the world. America is the only one, because I — I don't wanna say too much.

ED BRADLEY: But it's not number one in the United States?

MICHAEL JACKSON: It's a conspiracy. Yeah. I’m getting tired.

Before Michael Jackson’s attorneys stopped the interview, we were able to ask him one last question.

ED BRADLEY: Michael, what would you say to you — your fans, who have supported you through all of this, and — and who today, some of them might have questions? What would you say to them?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Well, I would tell them I love them very much. And I— I— they've learned about me, and know about me from a distance. But if you really want to know about me, there's a song I wrote, which is the most honest song I've ever written. It's the most autobiographical song I've ever written. It's called, "Childhood." They should listen to it. That's the one they really should listen to. And thank you for your support, the fans around the world. I love you with all my heart. I don't take any of it for granted. Any of it. And I love them dearly, all over the world. Michael Jackson - Brett Ratner (Interview 2004) Sunday, 01 February 2004

Michael Jackson Interview by Brett Ratner February 2004. Volume. 34, Issue. 1; page. 92

Headnote: DECADES BEFORE ALL OF THE CHARGES AND COUNTER- CHARGES, HE WAS A PINT-SIZE SINGER WITH A BIG DREAM

"Forget your personal tragedy. We are all bitched from the start and you especially have to be hurt like hell before you can write seriously. But when you get the damned hurt, use it-don't cheat with it. Be as faithful to it as a scientist-but don't think anything is of any importance because it happens to you or anyone belonging to you."

Those words of advice, quoted in Robert Evans's The Kid Stays in the Picture, were given to F. Scott Fitzgerald by Hemingway, some 70 years ago. They are as relevant today as ever.

Speaking of life's desires, hurts, and euphoria! It ain't easy being a genius: You do pay the price, not unlike Mozart, who will be remembered far longer than Napoleon. Michael Jackson understands this irony. No one I have ever met in my life has had such passion and love for entertainment. His work, brilliance, and vision will be remembered far longer than any of those who now think of him harshly.

Michael and I have shared many a day, week, and month together. Our relationship is based on our love of films. We have watched many films together, and our personal favorite that we enjoy most is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory! A few months before the latest drama, he and I were on a little vacation. In the past he has often put a video camera to my face and asked me questions. This is what Michael does with his friends: He becomes a scientist and dissects them through questions in order to learn. Many times he has asked me how my childhood dreams became a reality, about why I wanted to become a director. So I decided it was time to hear from him about his childhood dreams.

After my interview, I went out and bought all the records he mentioned and listened to them, understanding a little more about Michael. What you are about to read is a very private and personal conversation between two friends.

BRETT RATNER: Do you have a. mentor or someone who inspired you?

MICHAEL JACKSON: Yeah, I do: Berry Gordy, Diana Ross, Thomas Edison, Walt Disney, James Brown, Jackie Wilson.

BR: And what did you learn from them?

MJ: I learned a lot from them-about how to be a visionary, how to be creative, how to be persistent, how to be determined, how to have a will of iron and to never give up no matter what. You know?

BR: What was your first job in the music industry, and how did you get it?

MJ: First job, probably . . . Gee, I don't remember back that far. I was around 6 years old. Maybe it was Mr. Lucky's. I think it was a club-yeah, Mr. Lucky's. We performed there.

BR: And how'd you get the job?

MJ: I don't know; my father would know. I was too little.

BR: What was your first break and the first great thing that ever happened to you?

MJ: The real big break was when Motown signed us. We auditioned in Detroit, and Berry Gordy invited all our favorite stars that we saw as kids to this little town in Indiana: Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, the Temptations, and Stevie Wonder-everybody was there. And it was next to this indoor pool at this huge mansion, marble everywhere. We performed, and they just went crazy. They loved it. And [Gordy] says, "Boys, you're signed."

BR: Really?

MJ: Yeah.

BR: And you remember that day?

MJ: Oh, I remember it.

BR: What elements of your job make you want to go to work every day?

MJ: I want to work every day- just the idea of creating worlds. It's like taking a canvas, an empty canvas, you know, a clean slate. They give you paint, and we just color and paint and create worlds. I just love that idea. And having people see it and be aweinspired whenever they see it.

BR: What qualities of yours helped you get where you are today?

MJ: Faith and determination. And practice.

BR: Right. Practice makes perfect. What would you have done differently in your career if you knew then what you know now?

MJ: What would I have done differently? Let me see . . . Practice more.

BR: Practice more?

MJ: I practiced a lot.

BR: You practiced a hell of a lot! [Jackson laughs] But you would have practiced more? [Jackson nods] What's your greatest lesson learned?

MJ: Not to trust everybody. Not to trust everybody in the industry. There're a lot of sharks. And record companies steal. They cheat. You have to audit them. And it's time for artists to take a stand against them, because they totally take advantage of [artists]. Totally. They forget that it's the artists who make the company, not the company who makes the artists. Without the talent, the company would be nothing but just hardware. And it takes a real good talent that the public wants to see.

BR: What are some of your favorite albums?

MJ: My favorite albums would be Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite, Claude Debussy's greatest hits, which is, you know, "Claire de Lune" and "Arabesque" and The Afternoon of a Faun. I love Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, James Brown's Live at the Apollo, The Sound of Music [soundtrack]. I love Rodgers and Hammerstein. I love the great show-tune writers very much, and I love Holland-Dozier-Holland from Motown-they were geniuses. So many great writers. So many great ones.

BR: Any other great albums, like contemporary albums?

MJ: Great albums . . . It's hard because albums today have one or two great songs and the rest stink.

BR: Or older style-it could be like Marvin Gaye or Sly.

MJ: Sly & the Family Stone-I like everything they do. Stevie Wonder is a genius.

BR: Which album?

MJ: Every one. Talking Book. I love when he did "Living for the City." I forget the name of it [the album]. Fantastic. I think that was Innervisions-fantastic. Hearing this music made me say to myself, "I can do this, and I think I can do this on an international level."

BR: Really?

MJ: Really, and then when the Bee Gees came out in the '70s, that did it for me. I cried. I cried listening to their music. I knew every note, every instrument.

BR: [sings] "This broken heart . . ."

MJ: [sings] "How can you mend . . ."

BR: [sings] "This broken heart . . ."

MJ: And [sings] "How can you stop the rain from falling down?" I love that, [sings with Ratner] "How can you stop the sun from shining? What makes the world go 'round." I love that stuff. And when they did Saturday Night Fever, that did it for me. I said, "I gotta do this. I know I can do this." And we hit with Thriller. And I just started writing songs. I wrote "Billie Jean." I wrote "Beat It," "Startin' Somethin'." Just writing, writing. It was fun.

BR: Any posters up in your room when you were a kid?

MJ: Yeah. Brooke Shields, everywhere. My sisters would get jealous and tear them off the wall.

BR: What are the great shows that you've seen, concerts?

MJ: James Brown. Jackie Wilson. The real entertainers, the real ones, make you get goose bumps.

BR: It was James Brown? Where'd you see him?

MJ: We used to have to go onstage after him because he would come on and then we would come on amateur hour. So I'd be in the wings studying every step, every move

BR: -On TV?

MJ: No, at the Apollo [Theater],

BR: Amateur Hour at the Apollo. And you saw him perform?

MJ: Yeah, and Jackie Wilson. All of them-the Delphonics, the Temptations.

BR: But do you remember one show? You saw the Temptations, too?

MJ: Yeah.

BR: But was there a show when you said like, "Oh, my God"?

MJ: James Brown, Jackie Wilson.

BR: At the Apollo?

MJ: Yeah, they made me cry. I've never seen nothing like that. That kind of emotion, that kind of fever, feeling-it was like another higher, spiritual plane they were on. They were, like, in a trance, and they had the audience in the palms of their hands. I just loved how they could control them like that, that kind of power. When they'd sing they'd have tears running down their faces. They'd get so into it.

BR: What are some of your favorite songs?

MJ: Favorite songs of all time? I love Burt Bacharach very much. Any Motown. The Beatles, like "Eleanor Rigby," "Yesterday." Any of the Supremes'. All that stuff is great. I think the '60s had some of the best melodies of all time between Peter, Paul, and Mary, and you know, all those people. The Mamas and the Papas were wonderful. And the Drifters go a little further back, but I love that song "On Broadway"-it's genius. The simple ones are the best, I think. I love "Alfie"-so beautiful. There are so many. Like movies, there are so many great movies.

BR: So list a few things that could be helpful to someone breaking into the music business.

MJ: Believe in yourself. Study the greats and become greater. And be a scientist. Dissect. Dissect.

BR: You said something else before: Don't give up.

MJ: No matter what. I don't care if the whole world is against you or teasing you or saying you're not gonna make it. Believe in yourself. No matter what. Some of the greatest men who have made their mark on this world were treated like that-you know, "You're not gonna do it, you're not gonna get anywhere." They laughed at the Wright brothers. They laughed at Thomas Edison. They laughed at Walt Disney. They made jokes about Henry Ford. They said he was ignorant. Disney dropped out of school. That's how far they went. These men shaped and changed our culture, our customs, the way we live, the way we do things. And I think God plants those seeds through people on the earth. And I think you're one, I'm one to bring some bliss and escapism, some joy, some magic. Because without entertainment, what would the world be like? You know? What would it really be like? It would be a totally different world for me. I love entertainment. And my favorite of all is film. The power and magic of movies. It's the greatest, it's the most expressive of all the art forms. I think it touches the soul. Music and movies are the most expressive. It's almost like religion: You get so involved, so caught up. You go in the theater a different person than you come out. It affects you that way. That's powerful. I think that's strong. I love that.

BR: When you can make an audience feel.

MJ: Yeah, yeah.

BR: They relate to it.

MJ: Yeah, they live it. They're a part of it. They forget they're sitting in a seat.

BR: The experience of watching a movie affects their life.

MJ: Their whole life. It could change your life.

BR: Yes, I remember seeing Star Wars in the theater when I was 7 years old. It's a different experience for Paris or Prince [Jackson's children] seeing it today on DVD, 27 years later. I saw it when it first came out, with all the shock and awe of the time. No one had ever seen anything like it. There were lines for blocks, and I didn't even get in the first time. I had to go back the next day to try again. The memory of being so desperate, at 7 years old, to see that movie makes it an even more unforgettable experience. The first time you see something like that, it permanently affects your life. It's like listening to a song or seeing an artist perform for the first time. Getting to see James Brown, and that moment of tears coming out of your eyes, is different than listening to it on the radio 20 years later.

MJ: I can't tell you how incredible it was. I just love the great entertainers, the great performers, the great showmen, the great storytellers. just watching them, you're just mesmerized. You're caught up in it. I love it. One spotlight, baby.

BR: Frank Sinatra.

MJ: Yeah. Those guys are cool. And Sammy Davis. I just love it, the whole thing. It's magic, it's real magic.

Sidebar: “I’m one to bring some bliss and escapism, some joy, some magic…Without entertainment, what would the world be like?”

Author Affiiliation: Brett Ratner is a director living in Los Angeles. His first photo book, Hilhaven Lodge. Radio Interview with Jesse Jackson 2005

Jesse Jackson: Good morning. God Bless you. Happy Easter. Welcome to ‘Keep Hope Alive’ with Reverend Jesse Jackson radio program. This is Reverend Jesse Jackson and this morning I wish you a happy and glorious Easter. […]

But what can I say today about our special guest this morning. This legendary singer, dancer, songwriter — extraordinary — has transfixed the role for more than 40 years. He became an instant star at age eleven. Is the front man in Motown’s phenomenally successful family act, the Jackson Five. One of the best selling groups of all time. Hickering off their Motown tenure in 1969 with the unprecedented feat of four consecutive number one singles. Who can forget ‘I Want You Back’, ‘ABC’, ‘Mama’s Pearl’, or ‘I’ll Be There’?

Where were you when you were having barely turned thirteen? He began his solo career. Released a successful string of solo singles including ‘Got To Be There’, ‘Rockin’ Robin’’ and ‘Ben’. We’ve all marveled as he continued to scale at unprecedented heights with the success of three of the biggest selling albums of all time: ‘Off the Wall’, ‘Thriller’ and ‘Bad’. Indeed, ‘Thriller’ is the biggest selling album of all time. Having sold 51 million copies world-wide, beyond the numbers how important and pyridine shifting has Jackson recording and shattering record, how… How phenomenal has it really been? What a phenomenal feat.

As producer Quincy Jones told Time-magazine. “Black music had to play second fiddle for a long time.” In the spirit is the whole motor of pop. He has connected with every soul in the world. He has been proclaimed the biggest selling artist of all time. The singer most awarded entertainer the world has ever known. The most popular artist in the history of show business. And not so modestly, the world’s most famous man. And of course, the ‘King of Pop’.

And still our world goes on, on about this genius, about this icon for ages. Brothers and sisters, members of the ‘Keep Hope Alive’-family, today we have the rare opportunity to take a journey from Gary to greatness. Hear the ‘King of Pop’ share the story of his life as only he can tell it. It’s with great pride and pleasure that I bring to you this morning Michael Jackson from California.

Good morning, Michael.

Michael: Good morning, Jesse. How are you?

Jesse: Good. Good. Good. Good. It’s good to hear you there. Many listening ears around America and the world for our conversation today.

Michael: Yes.

Jesse: Good. Good.

Michael: Good.

Jesse: We’ll, my friends, let’s get this conversation started. We have a shared conversation with our nation. Stay right there. You don’t want to miss this live- conversation with the ‘King of Pop’, Michael Jackson. We’ll be right back with ‘Keep Hope Alive’ with the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

[Break]

Jesse: Welcome to ‘Keep Hope Alive’ with Reverend Jesse Jackson. Our regular Sunday morning talk show. Today we have a phenomenal guest in Michael Jackson. Michael has taken this phenomenal journey from ground zero to outer space. Good morning, Michael.

Michael: Good morning, Jesse. How are you?

Jesse: Good. Good. Good. Remember when we met on 47th Street way, way many years ago. Your father brought you and the guys by the office in your station wagon and U-Haul. You were performing at the Regal Theatre. Do you remember that?

Michael: Yes, I do remember. It was a long time ago. I was just very little.

Jesse: What do you remember about that period?

Michael: Oh, I remember what we were wearing kinda like dashikis [sic] and bell- bottoms pants and I just remember the love from the public was very great and accepting of what we had to offer. And the support from, you know, the people from the times was just beautiful, the black people was fantastic. You were always very kind to us as well.

Jesse: Good. Good. Did your mom make those outfits?

Michael: Yes she did. She always made all of our clothes. My mother would sew and stitch everything. Everything we wore before really making it at Motown.

Jesse: I remember so well that uh Julius Griffin and up your dad came over and asked if you guys could be a warm-up act at Expo, and we had to make room for you in our schedule and you guys stole the show.

Michael laughs: I remember those shows. You had a big Afro at that time.

Jesse: Don’t remind people of that, Michael.

[Michael laughs]

Jesse: You did so very well. During that time you were being whipped up by Motown. Who discovered you for Motown?

Michael: Well, in complete truth, it was Gladys Knight and a guy named Bobby Taylor. And they were on the bill of some of the shows who were doing that you would see like… you would do a show and there would be like twenty or thirty acts. It was pretty much like Bonneville. You would do just a certain number of songs and you would go off. They were always on these shows. And they would watch us and they were so impressed with what we were doing. And Barry Gordy wasn’t interested at first. But eventually he loved us and wanted to sign us. And after being signed, and uh, since Diana Ross was their biggest star at the time, that he used her as the vehicle to… you know… introduce us to the public. The first album was called ‘Diana Ross Presents the Jackson Five’.

Jesse: At that time, who were your favorite artists?

Michael: Oh God, I loved Diana Ross and uh, I loved James Brown, I still do. I love all these artists… still to this day. I love Jackie Wilson. The real show stoppers. You know the real entertainers.

Jesse: Did you did…

Michael interrupts: Sammy Davis, Jr, I loved him as well [laughs].

Jesse: Did you get any of your moves from Jackie Wilson?

Michael: Oh yes, of course! All these artists inspired me very much. I couldn’t help but be inspired by these great entertainers.

Jesse: A little later, remember we were out in Los Angeles and at that time Suzanne dePasse was your… the godmother for the group and she had you at Fred Seigel’s shopping for some, shopping for some jeans.

Michael: Yes! Remember Suzanne dePasse, she was so wonderful, you know. She was pretty much our manager with my father at the time and with Tony Jones. They were all wonder people. I thank them from the bottom of my heart, you know.

Jesse: She was such a wonderful person, and she remains, she’s so top-notch in that what she does.

Michael: Yes, she is. She was very helpful and instrumental in the early days of our career, and she remains a friend. And I do, I do…I miss her. I haven’t seen her in awhile. But she’s a wonderful person… so is Berry Gordy.

Jesse: Michael, in this whole developmental period. I call it ground zero like Gary and the Regal Theatre and the Expo and early meeting of Barry Gordy and Motown, would you reflect, what was out of this period that you remember the most?

Michael: Which period is this now?

Jessie: Kinda like this period of Gary, to the Regal Theatre, to Expo to meeting Gladys Knight, to going to Motown. From what about this period that stands out the most in your mind?

Michael: This period for me which stands out is… because I was so young around that time. I was like eight, eight or nine. I just remember the environment, what it was like, all the music I was hearing. Because my father played guitar. My uncle played guitar. Everyday they would come over, and you know they would play great music. And we would start to perform to the music. I remember seeing marching bands go down the street. I remember the rhythm of the band and the beats of the drum. And every sound around me seem to record in my head and start making rhythms and dancing. I use to dance to the rhythm of the washing machine. My mother went to the corner store to wash the clothes. I would dance to the rhythm and people would crowd around. I remember those kind of stories. They would crowd around pretty much and watch me. Those kind of little things. It’s just reflections, really.

Jesse: Well, you remember, you said that Jackie Wilson, and James Brown and Sammy Davis were heroes. Did you ever see them perform?

Michael: Yes, of course I did, and they were friends of mine. All these great artists. That’s why I was so lucky. I was just such a little kid, looking up to these people. We were real catatonic, awestruck with their talent. And not only did I get to see it, but I got to see it close up right on the side curtain, on the side of the wings. I got to know these great artists. These were the best entertainers in the world. They were show stoppers. And I would have to go onstage sometime after them, you know. It was amazing!

Jesse: But the thing is that at first I remember Tito and Jermaine… you were like so little, so small. You was part of the Jackson Five. At what point did you know that you realize you were a show stopper?

Michael: You know, when you have a special ability, you don’t realize it because you think everybody else has the same gift that you have. So you don’t realize it. When I used to sing at such a young age, people were so inspired by my singing and they loved it. I didn’t realize why they were clapping or crying or start to scream. I really truly didn’t, Jesse. And it just uhm, just later on in life, people would come up to me and say, you know, “Do you realize you have a special gift or you have a special talent?”. I just remember from my mother who is very religious always telling us to always thank God, to thank Jehovah God for your talent, your ability. You know, it’s not from…, it’s not our doing, it’s from above. So we were always humbled by people would come with accolades or, you know, adulations or whatever it is. You know, it was a beautiful thing.

Jesse: When did you stop going to school formerly?

Michael: Oh, I was very young. I think it was… oh boy, hmmm… I think it was the fifth, fifth, fourth or fifth I think. Then I had tutoring the rest of my life. Because we did so many tours and concerts and TV shows and things, all the albums and all the recordings, because we would have three hours of schooling, then we would do the concerts, then we travel to another state or another country. Then by that time we would do some concerts again and then it would be time to record the next J5 album, then after the J5 album, it was time for another Michael Jackson album. So, in my youth, as a little kid, I was always busy. I remember across the street from Motown recording studio, there was a park. I used to hear the roar of the kids and the throwing of the football and the basketball. I remember going to the studio everyday, and I was just feeling kinda sad, because I wanted to go to that park. But I knew I had a different job to do, you know, so going in and make the records. All day untill late at night, then you would go to sleep, then you were up for the next day, just the same regimentation.

Jesse: Does that insintu-… you missed a certain body of childhood experience. How did you compensate for this loss of ordinary childhood experience?

Michael: I — I — It’s true. I didn’t have a childhood. But, when you don’t have a childhood like people like myself and other child stars, I would think you try to compensate for the loss. So later on you try to catch up. That’s why you see, like you may see a theme park or amusement rides, that type of environment at my home. But what I like to do is help other children who are less fortunate than I am. You know kids who are terminally ill, kids with diseases, poor children from the inner cities, you know the ghettos, to let them see the mountains, or to let see or go on the rides, or to watch a movie or to have some ice cream or something.

Jesse: Of course one of the difference about you Michael, you did have a family. How many of, how many is in the family?

Michael: The immediate Jackson family?

Jesse: Yeah.

Michael: There were originally ten of us. There’s nine. There’s nine. And my mother Katherine and Joseph Jackson are still alive. We all were born in Gary, Indiana.

Jesse: Well in that setting, did Tito and Jermaine beat up on you and give you some normal childhood experiences as a younger brother?

Michael: We would be on tour. We would go to Miami. We would, you know, be able to use the beaches. We were so popular at that time. Wherever the Jackson Five would go, there would be a mob scenes. We couldn’t go in the shopping center or anywhere, because there were kids screaming. We had hit records back to back to back. We were playing these arenas all across America. And so it was difficult! We would did get to have a chance to have some fun, but in the hotel. We would have pillow fight in the hotel or if we wanted to swim after hours, we would swim in the pool downstairs. You know that type of thing.

Jesse: Who would win the pillow fights?

Michael: Pretty much Tito or Jackie. [laughs] They were the oldest.

Jessie: You know you kind of grown from this kind of phenomenal rise to the artist that has sold the most records in history. You look back from that period that we call Ground Zero to the period of your maturing in writing. Who was your greatest influence in learning to write? You write so well!

Michael: My greatest influence learning to write music… I think this is when I was lucky. In my opinion, I came into the Factory of the greatest song writers at that time in the sixties. Holland, Dozier, Holland of Motown. These two, these three guys were phenomenal. You know, Lamont Dozier, Eddie Holland. These guys were amazing. They wrote all the great Supreme hits and the Four Top hits. They were just amazing. And I got to learn and work with these guys. And I love of course some of the Beatles stuff. I love the Beatles music actually. I love a lot of the show tune writers. Richard Rogers and Oscar Hammerstein and Leonard Lowe and Harold Arland, Johnny Mercer and these kind of show tune. ’Cause I love melody. I love the great Irish pub songs. I love English melody. And the rhythms of Africans. Which is the roots of rhythm. That’s my favorite music. That’s my favorite music of the world because all music is defined from that. Africa is music. It is the origin. It is the dawn of existence. You can’t avoid that. It is in everything that is about myself.

Jesse: So much as you went through these stages and you began to write, sing and dance, did you ever have like a dancing coach?

Michael: No, I never studied dancing before. It always became natural for me. Whenever I was little, any music would start, they couldn’t sit me down. They couldn’t tie me down actually. Even to this day, if anyone played a beat, I’ll start kicking in and making counter rhythms to the beat that I’m hearing. It’s just a natural instinct. I never studied. And Fred Astaire who was a good friend of mine, and Gene Kelly, they used to always marvel at my ability for dance. When I was a little kid, Fred Astaire used to always tell me how he felt in his heart that I would be a special star. I used to just look at him thinking what are you talking about? [laughs] But uh, you could see, you know.

Jesse: Michael, where did the ‘Moonwalk’ come from? [laughs]

Michael: The ‘Moonwalk’ is a dance that I would love to take credit for but I can’t because I have to be completely honest here. These black children in the ghettos are, they have the most phenomenal rhythm of anybody on the Earth. I’m not joking. I learned, I get a lot of ideas from watching these black children. They have perfect rhythm. From just riding through Harlem, I remember in the early, you know, late 70s, early 80s, I would see these kids dancing on the street and I saw a kid doing these, uh sliding backwards kinda like an illusion dancing I call it. And I took a mental picture of it, a mental movie of it. And I went into my room upstairs in Encino, and I would just start doing the dance, and create and perfect it. But, it definitely started within the black culture. No doubt. And that’s where it comes from.

Jesse: Well then, connected to that piece when you were dancing, did you ever watch Don Cornelius Soul Train?

Michael: Oh I love that show. Are you kidding? Of course I did. I would wait for the Soul Train line. They would have a line that they would make, like a wall of people and the dancer would come through the middle, dancing to the song. It would give them a chance to showcase their talent and what they could do with their body creatively. I used to watch that catatonically, just watching that! I was mesmerized by uh, and studied the rhythms and the dancing of course. Of course I watched it. [laughs]

Jesse: Michael, you know as you look back, you kinda make this kind of transition from ground zero in Gary and you begin to ascend, and you became, in many ways, a man in a child’s body and I mean, you never gained any weight! How did you manage?

Michael: [laughs] Well, I’ve never been a great eater, I’ve, uh… to tell a little secret, I hate to tell it, uh, I’ve never been ahhh, great eater or a great admirer of food, even though I appreciate food and the gift of food and how God has given us food to eat, but my mother has always had a hard time with me, all my life, uh, forcing me to eat. Elizabeth Taylor used to feed me… hand feed me at times, because I, I, I… I do have a problem with eating, but, I…,I do my very best, and I am eating, yes I am! So I don’t — Please, uh, I don’t want anyone to think I’m starving, I am not…

Jesse: But you’ve…

Michael: My health is perfect actually.

Jesse: You’ve maintained this weight man, that’s what people is most jealous of and so excited about…

Michael: No no, my health is perfect actually, I’m a great believer in holistic natural foods and eating and herbs and things, you know, God’s medicine, instead of Western chemicals, not those things, you know.

Jesse: You know, Michael, as you look back on this phenomenal career, you — you remember at least the 5th grade in Gary and how you guys became a big hit so quickly, what do you remember, what is to you, the high point, you know… I’ve asked people all week long the high point for them — it may have been ‘Thriller’, it may have been ‘Beat It’, it may have been some performance, what for you represents the kind of ah, high point?

Michael: Well, one of the great high points, ahem, I would have to say… because I remember before ’82, in the early ’80s… I had done an album called ‘Off the Wall’ — it was an important point for me because I had just the movie ‘The Wiz’ and I wanted to express myself as a writer, as an ah, artist, you know to write my own music, do the music, pretty much put it together. And Quincy Jones, who I’ve loved — I was fortunate to work with him and I love this man, he is very gifted. But I was writing these songs at the time, ‘Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough’, you know, ‘Shake Your Body To the Ground’, you know ‘Billie Jean’, and ‘Beat It’. All these songs were written at this time. Ahem, so I pretty much was setting mental goals of what I want to do as an artist and I uh, it was a high point for me, during the uh, the winning of the Grammys for the ‘Off the Wall’ album, but I wasn’t happy. Because I wanted to do much more than that… I wasn’t happy with, uh ahem, the way it was accepted, even though it was a hugh success, it was the biggest selling album for a solo artist at that time. It was over 10 million, and for a Black solo artist. And I said for the next album, I refuse for them to ignore, and that’s when I set my heart [clears throat], on writing the ‘Thriller’ album and I really said I…

Jesse: What gave rise to the ‘Thriller’?

Michael: Pardon?

Jesse: What gave rise to the ‘Thriller’?

Michael: What gave rise to ‘Thriller’ was that the time, was pretty much disappointed and hurt — I lived in an area called Encino, and I used to see signs of graffiti saying “Disco Sucks” and “Disco is this” and “Disco is that” and disco was just a happy medium of making people dance at the time, but it was so popular, that the uhem, uhem, society was turning against it. I said, I’m just going to do a great album, because I love the album Tchaikovsky did, ‘The Nutcracker Suite’, it’s an album where every song is like a great song. I said I wanted to do an album where every song is like a hit record, and that’s what pretty much the hit ‘Thriller’ spawn from that… And I did that album and it made, er, all time history. The Guinness Book of World Records proclaimed that it was the largest selling album of all time and it’s still to this day and I’m, er, I would say that it was a pinnacle, that was a — I’d reached a certain zenith point, I would think, but I still wasn’t pleased after that. I was always wanting to do more, wanting to do more.

Jesse: And somewhat you…

Michael: And the ‘Victory’ tour came along.

Jesse: And somewhat you reached out, before we get to the ‘Victory’ tour, and we had this phenomenal crisis of people dying and you used your celebrity to pull artists together to do ‘We Are the World’.

Michael: Yes.

Jesse: What was that like?

Michael: ‘We Are the World’ was a great project, because ah, Quincy Jones called me on the phone and he asked me to write a song, for ahem, for ah, ahem, the devastation that was going on in Africa. And Ethiopia was hit very badly, and he knew my love for the people over there, because I would go to Africa all the time. I, I loved the culture, I love the people, I love what they represent, and so I put this song together, he said let Lionel Richie help you [clears throat], so Lionel came over. We started, you know, putting ideas together, and ahem, we talked most of the time because we pretty much caught up with old times because I’ve been knowing Lionel Richie for many, many years, and ahem, so Lionel and I put something together, but I wasn’t happy with it completely, so after that, I just went into the studio myself and pretty much completed it and finished it and packaged it and did all the music, put everything together and turned it in. Quincy was very impressed with it and he said “this is the song, we’re going to go with it”, and we put the song out and it became the biggest selling song single in history and it raised a lot of money. It was called ‘USA For Africa’ and we enheightened the public awareness on the subject. It was relief for Africa, it was a beautiful thing. We gave a certain percentage to America and the majority share went to Africa. It was a great, great thing.

[break]

Jesse: Reverend Jessie Jackson, ‘Keep Hope Alive’, our very special guest for our edition today, with Michael Jackson. So many people are listening all around the nation, all around the world — just a kinda family talk with Michael. I’ve known him since he was like seven years old, but the entire family, at some point in time, his father, driving a station wagon with a U-haul brought the guys by our office and asked if they would be a warm up act for Expo and of course, they were a warm up act, but in fact, they set it on fire and the Expo was never quite the same again. Matter of fact Michael, when we did the film ‘Save the Children’ that was a big hit, too.

Michael: Yes it was, yes it was… I remember those times… it was a little cloudy, but I do remember, Jesse, and I remember how wonderful you were to us and uh, I remember the love from the audience and I could hear the screaming of the crowd. and I could see all of the Afros and the dashikis and it was just a wonderful time and it was for a wonderful cause…

Jesse: On that show, it was Marvin Gaye, and Roberta Flack, and…

Michael: Ah!!!

Jesse: … and the O’Jays…

Michael: Wow!!!

Jesse: … and the Staples Singers and…

Michael: Whow.

Jesse: … Cannonball Adderley, it was a huge deal.

Michael: That’s amazing. An amazing list of people, that’s some of the greatest talent ever — that’s amazing.

Jesse: We going to re-release the ‘Save the Children’ sometime soon and people who missed that period will really enjoy watching it. Michael, you know, when we think about the kind of rise from Gary, Indiana, you were but a child and you went through your teenaged years being tutored along, but then I remember another phase, I, I think is a another phase, when the ‘Victory’ Tour occurred. At that time, you were a full grown. All of your brothers and sisters were full grown and we met in Kansas City, remember? With your family?

Michael: Yes.

Jesse: … We all had prayer together, ahem…

Michael: Yes we did.

Jesse: The ‘Victory’ Tour. Describe that season.

Michael: The ‘Victory’ Tour was one of the great pinnacles of my success because ‘Thriller’ had won more Grammys than any other album in the history of — of music, and it created so much phenomenon and such adulation and notoriety on a universal level, and it was very, very hard to go anyway, do anything without press and helicopters and people sleeping in your bushes and hiding in your trees. And it was just a phenomenal pinnacle, it really was and after all of that, I announced that I was going to tour. And to tour and perform those songs live, in front of an audience so the world was going just really, really wild at that time. And we did this tour that broke records all over America and we played stadiums, for instance, the, the setting record at Dodgers Stadium, before we played it, it was one show and a half by Elton John. We did 8 shows there — sold out, and they wanted another 2 — so we did 8 sold out shows there. [Clears throat]. This happened all over America. The first city was Kansas City and that’s where we met with you, Jessie, and I remember you coming to the suite and you gave prayer and it was a beautiful thing and ah, it was an amazing time, it really was. My dreams had come true.

Jesse: Good. Good. But you know Michael, in this life, they say some rain must fall and you’ve had these seasons of just ahem, tailwinds like pushing you forward. But life is of such that’s not a straight line, ah, some argue you either in a storm, or you are just leaving a storm, and going to a storm and it’s not difficult to handle the sunshine of bright skies, tailwinds days, but then these headwinds come that kind of uh, test what you really are made of, the kind of test your metal, your true grit. And so you’ve had these high points. What do you consider to be the low point?

Michael: Probably the low point, the lowest point, emotionally and experience, is probably what I’m going through [clears throat].

Jesse: In the sense — what, what about it has kind of stung you?

Michael: What about it… has what?

Jesse: Has stung you, so to speak.

Michael: Has, … Use the word again…

Jesse: Stung. You said it’s kind of hurt you, you said the low point.

Michael: Yeah, just the pain of what I’m going through, where I’m being accused of something, where I know in my heart and in my experiences in life I’m totally innocent, it’s just very painful. But this has been kind of, ah, a pattern among Black luminaries in this country.

Jesse: And so since, you have been going through this and you feel the pain, you think it’s a kind of pattern? How are you handling it spiritually? Because you go from being held so high and now your very character, your integrity is under attack. How your handling it?

Michael: I’m handling it by using other people in the past who have gone through this sort of thing. Mandela’s story is giving me a lot of strength, what he’s gone through and the Jack Johnson story was on PBS — it’s on DVD now. It’s called ‘Unforgivable Blackness’. It’s an amazing story about this man from 1910 who was the heavyweight champion of the world and bust into a society that didn’t want to accept his position and his lifestyle, and what they put him through, and how they changed laws to imprison the man. They put him away behind bars just to get him some kind of way. And… and Muhammad Ali’s story. All these — the Jesse Owens story. All these stories that I can go back in history and read about give me strength, Jessie. Your story gives me strength, what you went through. Because I didn’t, I came in at the tail end of the Civil Rights Movement. I’m a, ah I, I didn’t get the really, I’m a 70s child, really, but I got in on the tail end of the Civil Rights Movement and I got to see it, you know?

Jesse: And so, you — you — you — you had these hits, ahem, and people that you have embraced are now facing you in court on a daily basis. How does your spirit handle that?

Michael: Ah, I gain strength from God. I believe in Jehovah God very much and ah, and I gain strength from the fact that I know I’m innocent. None of these stories are true. They are totally fabricated, and it’s very sad, it’s very, very painful. And I pray a lot and that’s how I deal with it and I’m a strong person, I’m a warrior. And I know what’s inside of me. I’m a fighter. But it’s very painful. At the end of the day, I’m still human, you know, I’m still a human being. So it does hurt very, very, very much.

Jesse: You and I were watching, you know you and I were talking last week on the phone and — and there was this rhythm of the trial, which we will not get into at all today, but then they shifted from the focus of the trial to say you are broke. And last week, people are calling in, all around the nation saying, “Is Michael broke”? Michael, are you broke?

Michael: That’s not true at all. It’s one of their many schemes to embarrass me and to just drag me through mud. And it’s the same pattern, like I told you before with these other people in the past. The same pattern. Don’t believe, you know, this is tabloid, sensationalized kind of gossip.

Jesse: Well, how did the money issue get in it in the first place? A number of people called and they thought it was about the Sony catalog. What’s — what’s in that catalog?

Michael: In my Sony Catalog, is all the Beatles music, ahem, all of, you know, Little Richart’s music, I own,I own Sly and the Family Stone, I — I own such a volume of so many, I own Elvis — so many Elvis songs and it’s a huge catalog, it’s very valuable, it’s worth a lot of money. And there is a big fight going on right now, as we speak about that. Now, I can’t say whether or not — I can’t comment on it, but there’s a lot of conspiracy, I’ll say that — conspiracy going on as we speak.

Jesse: It was suggested by a number of your friends and family members was that this fight really is more about this catalog issue than it is any thing else. Do you believe that?

Michael: Well, you know, I don’t want to comment. I don’t want to make a comment, Jessie ah… it’s a real delicate issue and uh, I’ll let you, I’ll let you make the comment on that one.

Jesse: Let me shift this to this extent. Ahem, since so many people are listening and there have been so many opinions — I was in London a couple of weeks ago, and 24/7 was Michael Jackson all-day- and all-night-long and the day that you came to the hospital late [to court], you said you were injured. What happened that day?

Michael: I was coming, out of the shower and I — I — I fell. And all my body weight, and I’m pretty fragile, all my body weight fell against my rib cage. And I pretty much, er, er, I bruised my lung very badly. My lung is on the right, it’s very [sp], it’s, I’m in pain as we speak. And I’ve been going to court everyday in immense pain and agonizing pain. And I sit there — and I’m strong, I try to be as strong as I can. So I can, ahh, but what we are looking for is the coughing of blood now. The doctor said I should — he said it’s still very dangerous as we speak, and if I cough the blood, he said it’s a very dangerous thing, so we’re, we’re still watching it very closely.

Jesse: The cynics said you were faking. And it seems that the judge is [unaudible] will not even willing to believe you, even though you had just left the hospital.

Michael: You know, the — there’s no faking with this at all. I mean there was a scan done and you could see, uhhh, the swelling on my whole rib cage, I mean, uh, it was you could see it and it’s bright, bright red. And how it, it [the fall] busted my chin, and it put a huge gash over my forehead, blood, it was it was very bad actually. And ahm but…, we’ve treating it actually, I do have some medicine for it, but we are watching it very closely.

Jesse: As I listen to your talking about this whole ordeal that you are going through, and how you’ve stood strong sometimes amazingly so, ah, at some point last week, you — you cried. What, what touched you? What made you, breakdown, as it were?

Michael: You mean at court?

Jesse: Yeah.

Michael: I was in pain. I was sitting there hurting. And… the pain was so immense, all I could do was to sit there and cry. See, because it, it was so intense at that moment, ah, ahem, I just couldn’t handle it. So I just grab a tissue and just put it, you know, to my face… and…

Jesse: So, it was more about your personal pain, than the, than the challenges of the, from the stand?

Michael: No, it had nothing to do with what was going on inside. It was totally with personal pain, physical pain.

Jesse: Michael, since so many people are listening, I’m trying to gleam from some of our calls on the phone today and from last week, as people listen to you, what do you want people to know? Those listening to you on the phone — I see calls from Philadelphia, and from Holland and from Britian and New York and Mississippi and Florida, California — what do you want people to know?

Michael: About?

Jesse: About you. About where you are now in the head, how you are feeling?

Michael: Well, ahem, pretty much to — to be strong for me, to pray for my children and my family and myself. This is uh… uh a very difficult time. And to not believe what they hear, and see and read and just because it’s in print does not make it… just because it’s in print does not make it the gospel. And uh… you know, because they have sensationalized this thing to an immense degree. It’s a feeding frenzy — it’s because of uh, my celebrity. The bigger the celebrity, the bigger the target. And they have to remember that. So they’ve turned this into money — it’s like who gets the biggest ratings, you know, it’s terrible what’s happened with it. But it’s part of what I have to suffer as a celebrity. It’s part — part of what I have to go through. And to just uh, just know in the end that I will be vindicated, I pray, because I know the truth. I’m an innocent person. And I believe in God and love God. And just continue to pray for us.

Jesse: You know that, given your faith, in God and in yourself, and your declaration of innocence and while you are going through this storm ahem, presuming that you ah — win this, this has been a close battle, ahhh, a very intense battle, because the battle is — is not over, ah, the, appearance, given your relationship ahh, has called for lots of consternation. Is there anything that you will do differently? When this season is over?

Michael: Is there anything that I would do differently?

Jesse: Differently? When this season is over?

Michael: [Clears throat] Ahem, my level of trust will change. And ah, there, there there’s a lot of conspiracy going on. I’ll say that much. A lot of it.

Jesse: Do you think that…

Michael: All around me.

Jesse: Is the conspiracy connected to the celebrity or to the trial or to the catalog — what do you think the source of it is?

Michael: I, I can’t comment. I can’t comment Jessie, I, I don’t wanna… it ah, I’m under a gag order and it’s a very serious thing. I don’t want to say the wrong thing. With the wrong flavor. It’s a very delicate area. Very delicate where we are now.

Jesse: Good. Good. Let me ask you this question though, that for those who are praying fervently, and who in some way want to help and look forward to seeing Michael Jackson again. What can people expect next from you?

Michael: Well, like,… like I always say, I’m,… I’m a person of the arts. I love the arts very, very, very much. And ah, I’m a musician, I’m a director, I’m a writer, I’m a composer, I’m a producer, and I love the medium. I love film very, very much. I think it’s the most expressive of all of the art mediums. The sculptor can sculpt, the painter can paint, but they capture a moment, ah, they freeze time with the moment. In film, you live the moment. You live, you have the, audiences for two hours. You have their brain, their mind — you can take them any place you want to take them. You know, and that idea is mesmerizing to me — that you can have the power to do… to move people to change their lives and that’s where you marry the music [and the] individual together. And that’s what excites me so much about film and the future. Because I love motion pictures very, very much.

Jesse: Given, ah, the heat that is on you and the taxing issue that you are facing now, does it deter you from pursuing your career when this is over?

Michael: No! No. Not at all. Because ahem, I know who I am [clears throat] inside and outside and I know what I want to do. And I will always, you know, go with my dreams and my ideals in life. And I’m a very courageous person, and I believe in perseverance, determination, and, you know, and all those wonderful things, and those ideals are very important for a person who is goal-orientated, you know?

Jesse: Since people have… have risen so high and so far with your dreams, what are, what are you dreaming of now?

Michael: Oh, ahem [clears throat], like I was saying before, ahem, it’s to innovate, and to pioneer the medium of film, and there’s other things I want to do, which are some surprises. Ah, things in society that I want to do in the future. You know, in Africa. I have some great plans, ah, that I’ve been preparing to do there. I’d had several meetings with people whose flown out to see me since I’ve been going through what I’ve been going through and so my heart is set on doing some things there, very much so as well.

Jesse: You ah, your next project. Because often when people at a stage like this is kind of frozen, but you’re thinking about the next project. What do you see as the next immediate project? What’s hitting you right now?

Michael: Probably, ahemmm… the tsunami song that we want to do to raise money for tsunami, because Africa was ummm, was it Madagascar? One of those countries…

Jesse: Indeed. Madagascar…

Michael: Somalia and Madagascar was hit very hard, and they never…talk about that, the way they talk about the other countries. Now, we have, I mean, uh, my heart is going out for everybody, but at least, when they distribute the truth, distribute it right and ahem, it — they never talk about the devastation down in Africa, so we… I wanna do something for that. And of course, I’ve been working on doing, planning a resort that I’m building down in Africa. Ah, beautiful hotels, ah, just a beautiful setting for people and families and something beautiful down there. They habe a lot of beautiful places down there. So I want to do something that is more international. You know?

Jesse: Well, you know, it’s interesting about the tsunami with this huge national — natural disaster uh, couldn’t be stopped, maybe if we had early detection devices, we could have saved some lives perhaps, but it was a natural disaster, but what you raised is that while that we’ve lost 200 000 lives in the tsunami, we’ve lost 2 million in the Sudan and that’s a manmade disaster and oil and materials all caught up in that stuff, and then 4 million in the Congo. And ah, and I think as we talk about it, you know you and I talk almost everyday, you are reaching out to these African crisis — appears to have…, taken up a large part of your dream at this stage in your life.

Michael: Yes it has. Because Jessie, in my heart, deepest of heart, I really love Africa and I love the people of Africa. That’s why, whenever I get the chance, the children and I, we jump on the plane and we fly to Africa and we vacation there. I spend more of my vacation in Africa than in any other country. And ah, we love the people and we love the environment. Topographically it’s one of the most beautiful places on the surface of the Earth. They never show the sandy white sugar beaches, and it’s there! And they never show the beautiful, you know the landscaping, never show the buildings, the metropolis and urban — Johannesburg, Cape Town, Kenya, you know the Ivory Coast, you know, Rwanda, how beautiful the place is! And it’s really stunningly beautiful! And I want to heighten that awareness with what I’m doing and it’s been my dream for many, many years. And everybody around me knows that, because I go there very much.

Jesse: You know, we knew about the high points of Rome, because we see it on film.

Michael: That’s right.

Jesse: We know about the high points of Britain and the palace, we see it on film. On Paris, we don’t see much of Africa on film. We see Africa as misery and Africa as problems. We do not see it as being this phenomenally endowed continent of sand and sea and…

Michael: Because the…

Jesse: … oil and resources…

Michael: Because, yeah. The world is jealous of Africa for many centuries because it’s natural resources is phenomenal. It really is. And it is the dawn of civilization. Our history, a lot of our bible history is right there in Africa. And King Tut, all those great civilizations — that is right there in Africa. Egypt is in Africa!!! And they always try to separate the two, but Egypt is Africa!!!

Jesse: Well, it’s certainly true that when Jesus was threatened, ah, with death, when Harod sent out the edict for [the] genocide of all of the first born babies, that Joseph took him to Egypt, to Africa, kept him there for 12 years.

Michael: That’s right. That’s right.

Jesse: You’ve shown an amazing level of depth and commitment. Let me say this and in closing Michael, because people are listening and the reason I didn’t want to open up the lines today is because you have, you’re sharing stuff with us that you never quite really hear, but as people go and watch the trial next week and the coming days, what do you want your fans… we have callers on here right now from London, Holland and all around America, so people out there are listening today to you. What do you want to say to your fans and even to your detractors today?

Michael: I just wanna say: Fans in every corner of the Earth, every nationality, every race, every language, I love you from the bottom of my heart. You know, thank you for your love and support and understanding during this trying time. I would love your prayers, and your goodwill. Ah, and ah, please be patient and be with me and believe in me because I am completely, completely innocent. But please know a lot of conspiracy is going on at this time as we speak.

Jesse: Well, it’s Easter time, ah, we fall down, we get back up again. The good news is that, ahem, nothing is too hard for God. And those who believe, fervently believe, no matter how far down that they reach for a rope and not a shovel. They’d be pulled up and they will rise again. Michael, thank you for sharing yourself with the nation today, and the world and for getting up so early in California…

Michael: God bless you.

Jesse: God bless you and keep hope alive. Talk to you a minute off the air, okay?

Michael: Bye-bye. At Large With Geraldo Rivera Interview

5-2-2005

On Fox News, Geraldo Rivera conducted an intimate and revealing interview with Michael Jackson. Here we see a glimpse of the real man, the father, the warrior and the tender heart behind the media's often very inaccurate portrayal.

Read the full interview here...

AT LARGE WITH GERALDO RIVERA

Geraldo Rivera: How you doing, man?

Michael Jackson: How you doing?

GR: Good to see you.

GR: You get to smile anymore?

MJ: Of course, I smile a lot.

GR: You smile when you’re in a recording studio like this one, doing music?…

MJ: Of course, I love music.

GR: Is it nice to get back to the music? …

MJ: It’s fantastic. Because ahhh… It’s my life. That’s what I do.

GR: You’ve been so distracted, you know, you want to talk about how you’re feeling?

MJ: I’m doing fine Geraldo, how are you?

GR: Despite whatever else goes on in the world, you’re doing ok?

MJ: I’m doing very well, thank you.

GR: You know, it was wonderful, seeing you with the children. That I think, is the real Michael Jackson that has not been seen… you with your own children, one in diapers the other two toddlers… I don’t know how you manage without a nanny.

MJ: Well, I enjoy taking care of my children myself it’s... it’s fun that’s why I had them so I could take care of them and it’s just great relief for me you know it’s a pleasure it keeps me happy and laughing and you know, they’re wonderful sweet innocent children. GR: I saw you as kind of the arbitrator between the Nickelodeon and the Disney channel there. You got some really difficult problems to solve there. But you have such a- a kind of a normal life there. It’s sweet to see.

MJ: Thank you. They bring me that.

GR: Tell me, tell me what the children mean to you, your own children.

MJ: They mean, it’s hard to put it into words because they mean everything. The way you would explain how your children make you feel... They’re the world for me, I wake up and I’m ready for the day because of them. I get them breakfast, I change diapers, if they want to read, we do a lot of reading, we play hide and seek, we play blind fold and have a wonderful time with it.

GR: And you can create a world that at least begins to seem normal? They don’t know any other world obviously.

MJ: I do my best for sure.

GR: So, that is obviously a priority to you

MJ: Yes of course. I want to be the best father in the world of course.

GR: Do they know who you are? Or what you mean to people?

MJ: Yes, they do. They’ve been on tours with me and in limousines among a sea of fans.

GR: Do they like it?

MJ: They find it exciting. They want to get on stage. They bug me to go on stage with me. So, pretty sure I ‘m going to take them on with me and let the world see them for the first time.

GR: They don’t say, ‘Daddy I want to go home and watch Nickelodeon?’

MJ: (Laughs) Probably, probably.

GR: They do that too.

MJ: Yes.

GR: So how do you feel being here again, being in a recording studio again, focussing on the music again? Is it a relief, in a sense?

MJ: It’s a great relief. It makes me feel like I’m totally at home. I’m into my own. Which is what I’m here for. Any of the arts… like that could be film, you know, music, any type of art, I love it. GR: So, when you’re being the quote on quote, King of Pop, that’s when you’re the most comfortable? Or is it the creative process?

MJ: The creative process, yes. I’m obsessed with creating…

GR: I saw you and Randy, the way you guys react - it’s very reminiscent of the way my brothers and I are together. Who’s top dog?

MJ: Randy.

GR: That’s not what I saw

GR: But, uh, you trust your family.

MJ: Of course, you have to.

GR: Is it a ‘blood thicker than water’ thing? What is it?

MJ: Family is everything. It’s love. It’s what we were taught. We’re friends at the end of the day, which is important. Other than what the public or press people say, we’re friends. We love each other very much.

GR: So, is the family closely knit, despite all the tabloid stuff?

MJ: That’s sensationalism.

GR: How do you deal with that?

MJ: How do I deal with sensationalism?

GR: Yeah. How do you deal with everything in your life being magnified, exaggerated, almost to a grotesque level.

MJ: It’s like looking at a fictitious movie. Because its fiction. It’s like watching science fiction. It’s not true. And I know myself and it’s sad when people have to read those things and they believe it.

GR: Do you feel like holding a press conference every week and saying, this is the rumor du jour, it’s not true

MJ: I know eventually, the truth will prevail and I’m about truth.

GR: I’ve researched it and I can’t find anyone who has been more frivolously sued than you for the most outrageous reasons. One of your attorneys told me that a woman called Billie Jean Jackson called and said, ‘Stop accepting any paychecks, Mr. Attorney, I’m the wife - Billie Jean…’ obviously from your hit song, I mean, how do you… First of all, how does it affect you? MJ: Does it affect me? Yes, but I’ve become immune in a way too, I have rhinoceros skin but at the same time I’m human. So, anything can hurt like that, but I’m very strong. And, I just don’t like people hearing about such false information.

GR: For instance, did you father quadruplets last year?

MJ: That was a crazy rumor.

GR: Then they became twins. I don’t know what happened to the other two, maybe they were abducted by aliens.

MJ: I heard about that story and I don’t have any twins. They said I’m hiding them or something? Another made up rumor.

GR: So it’s completely false.

MJ: The bigger the star, the bigger the target. I’m not trying to say I’m the super- duper star, I’m not saying that. I’m saying the fact that people come at celebrities, we’re targets. But truth always prevails. I believe in that. I believe in God, you know?

GR: Does that faith sustain you?

MJ: Of course, it does.

GR: How about friendship?

MJ: What about friendship?

GR: Do you rely on friends? Have people stayed with you through thick and thin? Who are your best friends?

MJ: My children, my family, my brothers and my sisters and yeah, most people have. Most people have.

GR: Do you want to mention the names of the true blue?

MJ: The faithful, you wouldn’t know them so, it’s uh…

GR: Elizabeth Taylor?

MJ: Oh, she’s very loyal, I see Elizabeth Taylor all the time. She’s my dear friend, I was just at her house. We have wonderful talks on the phone at night, several times a week sometimes…

GR: So how long have you two been friends?

MJ: I’ve known Elizabeth closely since I was 16…

GR: And you’ve been making music since you’re five MJ: Yes

GR: So you’re in your fifth decade of making music. That’s forty-one years of making music.

MJ: Yes.

GR: You ever get sick of it?

MJ: No, no, not at all I never get enough of it (music).

GR: Really.

GR: Do you ever get sick of Randy?

(Laughing)

GR: He’s here, ladies and gentlemen.

MJ: Never, never, never He’s (Randy) wonderful. He’s been amazing, supportive, and amazingly brilliant.

GR: So, they’re all different. Your whole family is crazy, exocentric… like my family.

MJ: Every brother, sister is completely different, like any family, you have all the different elements… that’s what makes it a family.

GR: When you have such intense scrutiny, how do you live any kind of a normal life? How do you have any kind of fun outside of your own property?

MJ: I don’t. I go off property sometimes, but not all the time. I create my world behind the gates you know because I can’t go to the local movie theater down the street or the local park down the street or go pickup ice cream at the market, at the corner store. So, you want to create that world behind the gates and that’s what I try and do. And it’s not just for me if I could share with my family, friends, or whoever I do.

GR: And that necessity for some privacy, drives all these crazy rumors and speculations. A difficult balancing act that you have to endure.

GR: But you’re not complaining are you? I don’t. I try to rub it off. I don’t know what I’m the king of… the king of getting shot at maybe. Ha ha ha ha.

MJ: “The king of journalism.”

GR: So, what is it about children in distress? You mentioned the Tsunami relief effort. What is it? Is it your own fatherhood that motivates that? MJ: Caring. And reading the Bible, learning about God, Jesus, Love. He said, ‘bring on the children’, ‘imitate the children’, ‘be like the children’ and ‘take care of others.’ Take care of old people. And we were raised with those values. Those are very important values and my family and I we were raised with those values and they continue strong in us today.

GR: What about movies for yourself again? You had The Wiz and some of the others but we haven’t seen you on the big screen in a while.

MJ: I’ll be directing myself. I love directing. I love creativity and I think when an artist steps forward with a production of some type, if he can express himself the way he sees it should be done. I feel it and I see it. I’m a visionary. If I can give that, I do and that’s what I love to do with music and dance and the arts.

GR: And do you think art has a role in real life? Specifically referring to this record and Tsunami relief?

MJ: I saw it the day after Christmas and as the numbers kept escalating, it just became phenomenal and not even I could believe that it was true. I was amazed. I said, I thought I should do something. That’s what God gave us talent for. To give and to help people and to give back. So, my brothers and I decided to put a song together…

GR: What did you pick up the phone and say, “hey bros?” What did you say?

MJ: We just say, hey, we want to do something in the studio for the Tsunami victims. Let’s get together and organize it. And they just said great.

GR: However, you’re back, I think that people will appreciate the fact that you’re back. Wouldn’t you kind of exalt in a world where you could concentrate on your art and your kids?

MJ: I would love it. I mean that’s what drives me. The medium. The art. That’s the world I’m most comfortable in.”

GR: In Gary, Indiana, did you ever expect where your world would be as a 46 year old man?

MJ: I never thought about it. I knew I wanted to do something wonderful all of my life and to help people and I never clearly really thought about it when I was really little. I just sang and danced and didn’t understand whey people were applauding and clapping and screaming. You really don’t. You don’t know why…

GR: When you grow up like that on stage, when do you get it? When do you understand where you fit in to society?

MJ: It takes longer when you get older. You get a more rounded personality and your brain starts to grow. You start reasoning and understanding more things, researching. . GR: Isn’t it nice to have a conversation on television where people can just hear you being ordinary, normal, reasonable.

MJ: I’m like this all the time. I’m just being myself.

GR: At a certain point, Michael Jackson and the brothers Jackson kind of separated artistically, is this a moment in your life where you’re coming back together? Obviously you’ll continue your solo career, but what’s the big plan, what’s the big picture at this stage in your life? What has been left unachieved? What would you like to do?

MJ: There are a lot of surprises. Film. I love film. It’s innovating, taking the medium to a new place. I used the music video medium as a short film medium to take me to the next level. I’m having a lot of fun.

GR: Do you ever look back and contemplate, oh my goodness, Thriller is the biggest selling musical performance ever, do you ever get your arms around that?

MJ: I try not to think about it too hard because I don’t want my subconscious mind to think I’ve done it all, you’re done now. That’s why I don’t put awards or trophies in my house. You won’t find a gold record anywhere in my house. Because it makes you feel you’ve accomplished. Look what I’ve done. But I always want to feel, no I haven’t done it yet.

GR: ‘The King of Pop’ and now I look at some of these performers- there’s a new one - there’s 50 cent and another one- I forget his name, but they’re well-known because they survived violent attacks where they almost died and they’re into hip hop kind of - it’s a different era in popular music- do you think you’ll be more like them- more urban kind of- or will the world come back to more pop and traditional rock?

MJ: Great music & great melodies are immortal. Culture changes, fashion change, customs, great music is immortal. We still listen to Mozart today, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, any of them, any of the greats. Great music is like a great piece of sculpture, a great painting. It’s forever. That’s a fact.

GR: On the other hand, I interviewed Barbara Streisand at one pivotal point in her career, she was going to do duets with the BeeGees and other popular artists- she kind of changed the tempo to surprise people.

MJ: I’ve done a lot of it already… I don’t really rap, but I could… I’ve written songs with rap versus in them for very famous rappers, but they’re much better at it than I am.

GR: Don’t you appreciate, despite your isolated life and despite the fact you’ve been a star so long, you still have what appears to be a very passionate and profound relationship with the community. Does that support you? Does that sustain you? Do you agree with me?

MJ: Yes, I do agree, because it’s important to love your neighbors… GR: But were does it come from… where does that almost instinctive love of you come from?

MJ: I truly think it comes from my mother and God (instinctive love) The way we were raised. The values my father instilled in us in youth. She was always with the Bible teaching us - we’d go to service all the time. Four times a week and I’m so glad we did that because those are values that are very important. I don’t know if I could have done as well without them.

GR: Do you still spend time with mom and dad? They’re not far from here right now? And what is that relationship all about? I’m so close to my mom, obviously.

MJ: It’s wonderful. At this stage, you tend to appreciate more who your parents are more and what they’ve done for you. You start to retrack where you are in your life and all the wonderful things they’ve instilled in you. You start to see them come forth. I’m starting to see a lot of things. Traits that my father influenced me on and my mother.

GR: My friend Cheech, who you know, whose partner Tommy Chong helped discover you guys, ‘Bobby Taylor and The Vancouvers’, he says that as he gets older, he looks at his father’s face in the mirror. Do you feel that? Are you becoming like your dad?

MJ: I’m very much like my father in a lot of ways. He’s very strong. He’s a warrior. He’s always taught us to be courageous and to be confident and to believe in our ideals. And no matter what, no star is too far to reach and you never give up. And our mother taught us that as well.

GR: So you’re a warrior also?

MJ: Absolutely.

GR: That’s the way you see yourself?

GR: Tell us more about the way you see yourself?

MJ: I try to be kind and generous and to give to people and to do what I think God wants me to do. Sometimes I pray and say “where do you want me to go next, God? What do you want me to do from here?” I’ve always been very spiritual in that way. It’s nothing new.

GR: Did you ever see the movie “Finding Neverland” or read about J. M. Barrie, the man who wrote “Peter Pan.”

MJ: I know a lot about Mr. Barrie and I’ve been a fan for many, many, many years.

GR: You know, he had a rocky road, similar to you, I don’t want to get too far into it. Tell us what led to the creation of Neverland. I mean, specifically the place – There are 2 Neverlands, there’s 3. There’s Peter Pan’s Neverland, there’s the Neverland in Michael Jackson’s mind and then there’s the physical place you created up there where I visited you when you brought up all the inner-city children. Why did you create that place?

MJ: I created Neverland as a home for myself and my children and it was created simply, it was almost like it was done subconsciously, like I said earlier, where can I go? I mean, it’s hard. I’ve tried to go out as myself and I’ve had policemen tell me, “put on a disguise! And give me an autograph for my wife!” They tell me, “why are you out here with no security?” I can’t do it. I do it sometimes, but it’s very difficult.

GR: But you owned Neverland before you had the kids, was it for you? The exotic animals, were they for Michael Jackson?

MJ: For me and sharing with others. It gave me a chance to do what I couldn’t do when I was little. We couldn’t go to movie theaters. We couldn’t go to Disneyland. We couldn’t do all those fun things. We were on tour. We were working hard. And we did enjoy it. But this allowed me to have a place behind the gates where the entire world I love is there.

GR: You create, like Barrie, this imaginative world, do you ever outgrow something like that Michael? Do you ever think this is silly to have the llamas and the choo-choo trains and the rides?

MJ: It’s calling God silly if you do that, because God made all things great and small. Other men have their Ferraris and their airplanes or helicopters or wherever they find their bliss. My bliss is in giving and sharing and having simple innocent fun.

GR: Your homes. For all the grandeur of Neverland. Your home is quite modest. And your personal style. I don’t see any bling for instance. How come you don’t have the big diamond thing that says Michael?

MJ: I’m modest in that way. If I had it on, I would probably give it away to the first kid to say, ‘wow, I like your necklace.’ When I was growing up, stars like Sammy Davis, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly… if I admired something they were wearing, If I simply said, ‘I love that shirt you’re wearing,’ they would give it to me. It’s a show business trait. Hand it over.

GR: Despite the glare of the media attention and even the day that I was there and you invited the inner-city kids there, what’s it like to have the kids there? Why do you do that? I wanted to ask you that question that day but I pose it to you know.

MJ: I’ve traveled the world over 8 times. I do as many hospitals and orphanages as I do concerts. But, of course, it’s not covered (by the press). That’s not why I do it, for coverage. I do it because it’s from my heart. And there are so many children in the city who haven’t seen the mountains, who haven’t been on a carousel, who haven’t pet a horse or a llama, never seen them, so if I can open my gates and see that bliss, an explosion of screaming laughter from the children and they run on the rides, I say “Thank you, God.” I feel I’ve won God’s smile of approval, because I’m doing something that brings joy and happiness to other people. GR: So, you’re close to your siblings? How does it affect you when they get involved - like Janet’s superbowl flap? Just tell me how you responded as a brother and a viewer?

MJ: Oh, I can’t speak for my sister. With love. Actually, I was looking right at it and I didn’t see it. I was at a friend of mine’s house, Ron Burkle and in a movie theater, it was huge on the screen and I didn’t even see it. I heard all this controversy the next day and I said, “That’s not true.” I didn’t even see it.

GR: Do you think the controversy was overblown? Do you think it’s a Jackson related phenomena or is it a testament to our times socially in this country?

MJ: That’s an interesting hypothesis too. It’s both. It’s hard to answer. I’d rather not answer that one.

GR: Did you call her and say ‘don’t sweat the small stuff?’

MJ: Something like that. ‘Be strong. This too shall pass.’ ‘Don’t worry about it.’ I’ve seen worse things. I said, “Janet, you’re too young to remember but, I once watched the Oscars with David Niven on it and a naked man came running out, streaking. Now, he didn’t get there on his own. That was organized and nobody - they didn’t say much about that.” I’ll just say that much. That was live, around the world. The next day it was a joke.

GR: I think there is a Jackson component. I think the thing was exaggerated. I think the Jackson thing was part of the reason.

MJ: Thank you.

GR: So as you go forward in this record, what are we going to expect? Are we going to hear this on the radio and then people are going to send in their money and it’s going to go to these kids in the Indian Ocean region?

MJ: I would like that very much.

GR: Now tell me, how that act of largesse, that compassion, will make you feel? Sometimes, I think, I feel better giving than receiving in my life, explain the mechanics of that in your own life.

MJ: It’s just the idea. I don’t know if its the psychology of it or what. I just love working hard on something. Putting it together. Sweating over it and then sharing it with people and then having them love it and I always pray that they like it. That’s what gives me great satisfaction as an artist.

GR: Does it frustrate you professionally or personally when people say that this Jackson project flopped or that happened. Your ‘Number Ones’ compilation for instance, 7 and a half million copies sold. Now I think that’s quadruple platinum or whatever it is you label it. And yet the characterization by some in the music business at least is that you’re not- you know, that it wasn’t a hit. MJ: I don’t know which project you’re talking about… because of negative news. Sensationalism seems to sell more than wonderful, positive news. People would rather hear gossip. My last 8 albums have all entered the charts at number 1, so people like to sensationalize things and make up stories and rumors and sometimes…

GR: Does it hurt your feelings? Do you want to scream out and say, “Hey wait a minute, check the numbers!”

MJ: It’s a commonality in mankind that I don’t like. That part of it, but then there’s a beautiful side to mankind too, isn’t there?

GR: But not to Eminem. We’ve spoken about it. I think that you should. Why not?

MJ: And what’s your question?

GR: Stevie Wonder said that he was piling on and how really rude it was for someone who made his money from the community to ‘diss the community in a sense in a racist and, I’ve said it, very bold faced, bigoted presentation. Tell us how that hurt you and how you’re feeling about it now.

MJ: I’ve never met Mr. Eminem, and I’ve always admired him and to have him do something like that was pretty painful as an artist to another artist and it’s sad because I think what Stevie Wonder said is true, I just don’t want to say too much more than that. He (Eminem) should be ashamed of himself what he’s doing. Stevie said he’s bulls***. He used the word. That’s what he said. I’m not saying it, Stevie said it. Stevie’s amazing. He’s one of the sweetest men in the world.

GR: Stevie did and he is bulls***. So, when Stevie said that, did you feel a tremendous sense of reassurance, of brotherly love, there?

MJ: I love Stevie Wonder. To me, he’s a musical prophet. I’ll always love him. A lot of people respect Stevie and he’s a very strong entity in this medium, in this business and when he speaks, people listen and it was wrong of Eminem to do what he did. I’ve been an artist most of my life and I’ve never attacked a fellow artist. great artists don’t do that. You don’t have to do that.

GR: I mentioned Janet’s fiasco and the exaggerated response to it. Once again do you think he only did it because he knew he could get away with it because you’re Michael Jackson?

MJ: Yeah, but it doesn’t hurt. It’s silly. It’s kind of elementary. I hope he’s having fun…

GR: Like a poo-poo joke. It still hurts your feelings and you don’t want your kids to see it.

MJ: Oh god, I would hate it if they saw it. I would hate that”

GR: Finally, we’ve studiously avoided the case and not talked at all about the case that’s pending. You’re under this gag order. I know that you have received permission from the judge to read a statement. I hate to end an interview that way, but if you’d like to read that statement now, I think it’s important.

MJ: IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS, A LARGE AMOUNT OF UGLY, MALICIOUS INFORMATION HAS BEEN RELEASED INTO THE MEDIA ABOUT ME. APPARENTLY, THIS INFORMATION WAS LEAKED THROUGH TRANSCRIPTS IN A GRAND JURY PROCEEDING WHERE NEITHER MY LAWYERS NOR I EVER APPEARED. THE INFORMATION IS DISGUSTING AND FALSE.

YEARS AGO, I ALLOWED A FAMILY TO VISIT AND SPEND TIME AT NEVERLAND. NEVERLAND IS MY HOME. I ALLOWED THIS FAMILY INTO MY HOME BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME THEIR SON WAS ILL WITH CANCER AND NEEDED MY HELP.

THROUGH THE YEARS, I HAVE HELPED THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN WHO WERE ILL OR IN DISTRESS.

THESE EVENTS HAVE CAUSED A NIGHTMARE FOR MY FAMILY, MY CHILDREN AND ME. I NEVER INTEND TO PLACE MYSELF IN SO VULNERABLE A POSITION AGAIN.

I LOVE MY COMMUNITY AND I HAVE GREAT FAITH IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM. PLEASE KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND LET ME HAVE MY DAY IN COURT. I DESERVE A FAIR TRIAL LIKE EVERY OTHER AMERICAN CITIZEN. I WILL BE ACQUITTED AND VINDICATED WHEN THE TRUTH IS TOLD.

GR: Michael is there anything else you would like to say?

MJ: Yes. I would just like for the public to keep my family and myself in their prayers. That would be very nice. Thank you, Geraldo. Michael Jackson Talks To Access Hollywood in the Studio

The below is a transcript of an interview between Michael Jackson and Access Hollwood's Billy Bush that aired on Thursday, November 2nd.

Billy Bush: Michael invited me to Ireland, to observe him, as he got back into the studio. Can lightning strike twice for the King of Pop?

Michael insisted this was NOT a formal interview. He wanted us to be more like flies on the wall. Let's face it, the way Michael sees it, when a camera and microphone has charmed its way into his personal space, it has turned out badly for him.

So with that in mind, we agreed to just turn the cameras on.

(Cuts to footage of Michael in the studio, and walking around around Irish estate with Billy Bush and Will.I.Am from the Black Eyed Peas, with a new track playing in the background)

BB: So this is really a kind of an exploratory mission. You (pointing at Michael) deciding to get back into making music...

Michael Jackson: (Smiling) I never stopped... I'm always writing a potpourri of music, you know, it's how it is.

BB: (Voiceover) Relaxed, and ready to return.

(Cuts to footage of Michael laughing)

BB: (To Will.I.Am) Let's hear it.

(Will.I.Am starts playing a track he has prepared for Michael)

BB: (Voiceover) That, is the Michael Jackson we found when Access journeyed over 5000 miles to this classic old Irish estate (footage on screen) outside of Dublin. The stone manor is built to rock with a state of the art recording studio. But it's because of the beauty of the emerald landscape that Michael chose to be here.

(Cuts to footage of BB in grounds of the estate)

BB: What goes on on these grounds is a lot of exercise and walking and horse back riding. Michael wakes up in the morning, he makes porridge for his kids, which is oatmeal, and fruit. All the food is organically grown here. The amazing thing is, is that the man that is known as the P.T. Barnum of the recording industry (everything done big and extravagant) is really sort of dialling it back... to the roots.

(Cuts to more footage of Michael in the studio)

BB: (Voiceover) Michael is on the search for fresh sounds and Black Eyed Peas leader Will.I.Am is the man with the beats.

(Footage of Will.I.Am and Michael nodding away to a track that is being played)

BB: Will, we were talking a little earlier, you got a phone call on the tour bus, right? Someone said, "Mike's on the phone..."

Will: I was like, "no, come one, stop playing around." I didn't know it. I thought somebody was joking.

BB: So this is like eh, this is baby steps? Of just checking out what may be a collaboration or some work together?

Michael: Yeah, yes.

BB: Why Will?

Michael: Because I think he's doing wonderful, innovative, positive great music. Thought it'd be interesting to collaborate or just, you know, see how the chemistry works... be wonderful.

Will: This is like, a dream come true for me, you know.

BB: (To Michael) Does he take your advice well?

Michael: (Nodding and smiling) Yeah, we uh, yeah we...

(Will.I.Am interrupts, Michael laughs)

Will: I have... you have to take advice from the King of Pop.

(Billy Bush laughs)

Michael: I like to take sounds and put them on a microscope and just talk about how we wanna manipulate the character of it.

BB: (Voiceover) Will brought something new to the table, while keeping that classic Michael sound intact.

Will: (To Michael about the music playing) Living 'Off the Wall' with them kind of strings... (smiles)

Michael: Oh yeah, yeah, 'Off the Wall' yes.

(Laughter all around)

BB: (Voiceover) If Michael likes what he hears, he'll add his own musical touches. But for now, the two (Michael and Will) work the board, weaving out a sound and tapestry - layer by layer.

Michael: Pretend we're technically inclined. (Laughter all round)

BB: (Voiceover) Do NOT doubt his (Michael's) tech savvy, Michael knows his way around a recording studio AND our new digital camera.

(Footage of Michael holding a camera from the Access Hollywood crew)

Michael: That's a beauty. You can edit within the camera...

BB: Film me.

Michael: So s...

BB: Can you operate it?

Michael: Uh, I don't know, ok yeah... (points camera at Billy Bush)

BB: Are you a technology...

Michael: Yeah, I love cameras...

BB: Love the action?

Michael: Yeah. Love it. It's a beauty. (Starts to put camera down, turns to crew member) What's the price of this one on retail?

Crew member: $6,000.

Michael: Wow!

BB: (Voiceover) But what really impressed Michael? Will's music.

(Footage of Michael bopping his head to the music before it stops)

BB: What you think there?

Michael: They're very nice grooves...

Will: Alright...

Michael: I like the chords, I like what you did.

Will: That's a... that's a club banger.

BB: Yeah... Will: That's what they call that one.

(Music starts playing again, Will and Michael move to the music)

BB: (Voiceover) Will's beats are infectious, and an enthusiastic Michael could NOT contain himself.

(Cuts to footage of Michael moving to other side of studio to dance a few steps)

Michael: (To Billy Bush) Do you feel you have enough (footage)?

BB: I could go forever Michael. (Laughter all round) You don't wanna ask me that Michael.

The below is a transcript of an interview between Michael Jackson and Access Hollwood's Billy Bush that aired on Friday, November 3rd.

Billy Bush: Yesterday, in Part 1 of my exclusive in-studio visit, you saw a mixed Michael. He chose his words carefully. But when super producer Will.I.Am of the Black Eyed Peas turned on the beats, Michael came alive!

There is no doubt in my mind that Jackson is coming back, but how? Amazingly, he hasn't really thought about it.

(Cuts to footage of inside the studio)

BB: There was nothing ever bigger than (Thriller) that. That is the biggest album ever.

(Cuts to footage of Thriller video before returning to studio)

BB: If you went back and took it to a second chapter...

Michael Jackson: That's a great idea.

(Cuts to footage of Billie Jean video)

BB: (Voiceover) Imagine Michael Jackson re-visiting Thriller. Remix, DVD's, Web Saturation. The sky's gotta be the limit with the biggest selling album with nearly 100 million copies worldwide.

(Returns to studio)

BB: Is that the first time you've heard of it? I mean like, or or, have you thought that...

Michael: No I haven't really thought about it in that way but I would give it more thought. We haven't really discussed it yet, on that level, but I'm sure at some point we will. But it's a great thought.

BB: Feel like I'm a collaborator here. Michael: Yeah, yeah, you are...

(Laughter all round)

BB: I get a credit...

Michael: You are.

BB: I might get a credit.

(Cuts to footage of Michael, Will.I.Am and Billy Bush walking around Irish estate with new track produced by Will.I.Am playing in the background)

BB: (Voiceover) For right now Michael is focused on creating and not re-creating. And it is right here at this recording studio on the sprawling classic old Irish estate outside of Dublin where Michael has teamed up with Black Eyed Peas leader Will.I.Am to take his music to the next level.

(Cuts back to studio)

BB: Do you see something big with the music that you make again, or getting that ground swell going? Doing clubs and intimate things and getting it bigger and bigger and bigger?

Michael: Jee, you know I'm not sure, on that level.

Will.I.Am: I can answer that direct (as) a fan...

(Michael points at Will.I.Am)

BB: Go ahead.

Will.I.Am: Big!

(Cuts to footage of Michael dancing away to the music before returning)

Will.I.Am: Something needs to put a jolt back in the music industry. And the only thing that can do that is the jolt itself. The energy that sparked the imagination of the kids that are... me, you know, the Justin Timberlake's, we're all products of this. (Motions to Michael) So the only person that can put that jolt back in to that monstrosity of entertainment and music is the one who created that. (Motions to Michael again)

(Cuts to footage of Don't Stop 'till You Get Enough video)

BB: (Voiceover) But what about those people Michael inspired...

(Cuts to footage of Justin Timberlake's Rock Your Body video)

BB: (Voiceover) ...to aspire? (Cuts back to the studio)

BB: Michael, I would love to hear what you thought of Justin Timberlake or something like that, because he's the closest thing to Michael Jackson I think today. You know what I mean?

Michael: I think Justin's doing a wonderful job, as well as Usher (Michael smiles) it's great to see. I'm inspired by what they do, and I'm sure I've inspired them. It's very nice.