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FOR REIEJ..SE-- On or After 8:30 P.M., EST 1 Tuesday 1 November 16_, 1948

AME:RICA 1S TOWN MEETmG OF TBE AJR (AM and TV)

November 16_, 1948 (Broadcast No. 534; Telecast No. 6)

Subject: 1'WRAT SHOULD THE ADMINISl'RATION DO .ABOUI' THE HIGH COST OF LIVmG? ••

Speakers: HUBERT HUMPHREY, Mayor of Minneapolis; United states Democratic Senator-elect of Minnesota.

SENATOR RALPH E. FLANDERS, Republican of Vermont; member of the Senate Danking and Currency Conmdttee; member of the Joint House and Senate Conmdttee on the President's Economic Report.

HERMAN W. STEINKRAUS, President and General Manager of Bridgeport Braes Co~.

MARK SI'ARR, Educational Director of II.GWU; member of the President' a Comndttee on Higher Education; member of the u. s. Advisory Commission on Educational Exchange.

Moderator: GEORGE v. DENNY I JR.

:Broadcast from: !Ibwn Hall, New York

:Broadcast over: WJZ (New York} and 252 stations of the ABC Network

Television: WJZ-TV (New York) and .ABC' e Eastern TV Network ***** ·Thie release contains the Prepared Speeches (only} of the principal epeakere and is correct as of the hour of mimeographing. However, speakers frequently revise up to broadcast time. For accurate quo­ tations we suggest that you either monitor the program or attend in e the per eon. Definitive detai 1 :-~ o:f continuity 1 etc 1 may be had from Press Department, Town Eall, LU:~ emburg 2-24) 0. * * * * * Program Ma.nager: Elizabeth Colclough, Town Hall

Comp~ Radio Director: I/3onard Dlair 1 American Broadcasting

Television Director: Marshal Diskin, American Broadcasting Com:pany

AMERICA'S TOWN MEETING OF THE AIR • LECTURES • SHORT COURSES • MUSIC ~ ------1~ - HUBERT B. HUMPHREY PAGE ONE

What should be done about prices? Well, I will tell you one we have thing we should not do and that is to sit on our hands the way food off been doing since 1946 and let the rising cost of living take families. the table and clothes off tha backs of millions of American to Nor should we just view with alarm an inflation that threatens our nation. destroy every business, eve~y farm, every invest~ent in and We must act. We must have action by government, cooperation is a bi­ action by industry, labor and the consumer. This inflation is the product of the war and the depression that preceded it. It It cannot unwanted child of a national emergency, of a world crisis. found be dealt with in ordinary old-time conservative methods. We did that out when we removed controls, abolished excess profi~taxes, The away with restrictions on installment buying and consumer credit. tell old-time economic religion just has not worked. The headlines and us the sad story. The jittery market, the frightened investors, is upon the restless workers are living symptoms of the disease that us. What shall we do? Surely we must have voluntary cooperation. We must encourage savings. We should attempt to delay commercial investment in non-productive facilities. There must be con~umer more, too. Govern­ resistance to ~igh prices. Yes, all of these and the ment ruust act. The first thing we have to do is to re-establish right authority to control price s . Second, we need some price control short supply now. I mean, selective price control on items that are in profit, and heavy demand. Price co~trol where there is ·exorbitant of course, where a market is being gouged. The price outlook today is, have very different from what it was two years ago. Farm prices and definitely turned down, but there are areas, for example, metals metal products where prices are still rising dangerously. PAGE TWO HUBERT B~ HUMPHREY increase - an4 The railroads are right now demanding a new rate right across the everyone knows what that would do to costs and prices 3 1/2 months their board. Railroads are claiming that in the past at a rate of more materials costs have risen by 7 1/2 percent. That's got to be stopped ~· than 30 percent a year. That kind of thing has - inflated And in other lines - shoes and some of the textiles are instead prices that ought to be coming down very substantially monopolists are being kept right up at peak leyels. Scarcity-minded than cut their inflated laying off men, cutting down production, rather can afford to buy. profit margins and bring prices down to where people That kind of thing, too, has got to be stopped. on. Pro­ Third, we must tackle this matter of shortages head be increased by duction must be increased. And it can be - it can between plant expansion, . by tax inducements, by closer cooperation labor and management. telling us if Do you remember those full page ads of the N.A.M. move steadily only price controls "fere abolished, pl"oduction would Everyone knows it upward and shortages would speedily disappear. that the rea­ hasn't worked out that way. But not every one realizes men fought son it hasn't worked out is taat the same "scarcity-minded" the war itself aad­ against plant e:cpansion back in 1941 and even into stepping up our pro­ have been fighting these past two years against eatest in history - ductive capaci ty. After all; pr of i ts are t no gr why expand? the steel Today, two years after the end of price-control, rising, profits shortage is as great as ever, steel prices are still pay gray market are at dizzy heights, small business is forced to railroad equip­ prices, and the production of building materials, of other critically ment, prefabricated homes, pipelines and a host HUBERT H. HUMPHREY PAGE TH&EE

needed i~ems is being choked off by the bottleneck in steel.

Back in 1941 we faced ex~ctly the same production problem and we licked it by Government action. We used a compound of tax inducement on the one hand and government pressure on the other. We've got to lick it again today. We face a real shortage of electric power too. Here the industry is expanding, but not nearly enough. Real expansion in the power field must come throueh the development of our great river valleys

and the harnessing of the mighty rive~s themselves. What we did on the Tennessee we must do on the Missouri, on the St. Lawrence, and,

one after anot~er, on all the great rivers of the land. Whether it is steel or electric power or any other industry

that is a bottleneck, whether the ~xpa~eAoo is achieved by private investment with government encouragement or by direct public develop­ ment or by trust-busting one way or another we must break the shackles

that are constricting the American e~onomy, holding down production, and keeping prices up. We did before, we can do it again% What should the governmeut do about rising prices? The American

people on ~ovember 2 gave us our orders. They want their government to take action. They are waiting for homes at prices and rentals

that o~di nary folks can pay. They want action to improve their

education, to bring mode ~n m-dical care to every family, more

hospitals, more clinics, do&to~s an ~ nurses o They voted for a govern-

~nt to broaden the social security progra~. 1'bey want a decent minimum wage. They want a stahle farm economy with price supports. They want America to continue and strengthen our European Recovery Program and to maintain our defenses. They want to see their govern­ ment move steadily forward towards these goals and, at the same time, keep prices firmly stabilized. They are tired of waiting. They HUBERT H. HUMPHREY PAGE FOUR ..... , proved their impatience in the election. The program calls for ··pri,ce...... control. It calls for action to break bottlenecks of production. It calls for powers to allocate scarce materials so that first things come first, homes before race tracks, factories before night clubs. The program of our governnent calls for sound monetary and fiscal policies and that means restraint upon inflationary credit and it means taxes to pay the bills. I, for one, think our orders are per­ fectly clear. From now on it is whole steam ahead for abundance and sustained prosperity. SENATOR RALPH E. FLANDERS PAGE ONE Thank you Mr. Denny. The subject assigned is "What Would the Winning Party Do About the High Cost of Living?" I do not belong to the winning party, but I am glad to give them minority advice. I am sure Mayor Humphrey will agree that prices rise when there is more money ready to buy things that there are things to buy. There are few people who are willing to believe that they are causing in­ flation by an oversupply of money. Yet the figures show that a large segment of the population has improved its purchasing power over pre­ war conditions. But there is another large segment of the population which has fallen behind. This includes the lower-paid groups of the white-collar workers, employees of local, state, and federal govern­ ments in general, preachers and religious workers of all kinds, social

workers~ employees of charitable institutions, recipients of pensions and retirement salaries, and all those who through work and thrift had laid aside, so they thought, enough money to keep them in comfort for their declining years. There are millions of these people, and it is these millions who in the end will probably bring the long­ expected slump in prices, production, and employment. For if they are left much further behind and are not gradually brought up to better purchasing power by some means, their diminished purchases will ruin the markets for the products made by those well employed and generously paid. To cure inflation we can increase production or decrease pur­ chasing power. Increase of production is limited by the fact that we cannot put many more people to work since we have practically full employment now. When Mayor Humphrey now~ or the National Association of Manufacturers earlier, assume that increased production is easy, they forget full employment. Production is likewise limited by the TWO SENATOR RALPH E. FLANDERS PAGE forty-hour week. The workmen themselves are preferring leisure to having more things to buy at a lesser price. Mr. Starr, I believe that they should be allowed to determine their choice on this matter, but they must know what they are choosing. Improved management and employee relations leading to higher output per worker-hour will help. Finally, we must revive the means by which our standard of living has been raised for generations past, and largely within the indus­ trial experience of Mr. Steinkraus and myself. We must accelerate invention, building, installation, and use of labor-saving equipment. The new administration must devise tax policies which will channel profits into this time-tested means of increasing production. Finally, we must remember that it is goods we coasume ~ not dollars. So much for increasing goods to be bought. How about dee·reasing the supply of money to buy the goods with; by credit control or other me.ans? The government must move with caution here, to avoid unemploy­ ment. To keep prices in line without unemployment is our objective. Lastly, we need more statesmanship in business management and organized labor. We need restraint in asking for higher wages on the part of those groups who are faring better as compared with pre-war years and with other workers. The employer should accept the respon­ sibilities that go with high profits. There are many cases in which these profits should be distributed through lower prices, higher wages, pro­ or both. The continuous ~ail- chasing of higher wages and higher fits constitutes neither labor nor business statesmanship. The Go9- ernment can make a contribution here by a Congressional investigation of business profits. Except for this investigation, this solution very largely lies outside the hands of Government. Let labor, busi­ ness and Government play their parts. HERMAN W. STEINKRAUS PAGE ONE Well, I believe this problem is much more complex than Mr. . Starr's analysis indicates. The fact is that high wages, high taxes, high profits, a huge Federal budget, cheap money, foreign relief, low production have all been factors. But neither labor, industry, government, the farmers, nor the consumers are singly responsible. Yet each of these groups, and every single individual of us are affected and must do our part to help bring prices down. There are some things which our government can do itself, and immediately. First of all, there is a desperate need for the government to practice more economy in its own operation. Our government spending is ten times greater than it was sixteen years ago, although our national income has only increased five times. Our national debt has shot sky high! We've got to balance our national budget in all good years, not just once in sixteen years. Our government must live within its income, just as you and I, and every other taxpayer have to do. This exorbitant spending comes right back to you and me, in higher taxes and higher prices. The second thing the goverQment must do is to reverse the ex­ pansion of bank credit, and use the controls already in the hands of the President, to stabilize our money, as Senator Flanders has said. Many of these easy money policies were set up at a time when a post­ war depression was expected. The depression did not materialize, but the cheap money, which w~s intended as a counter-balance, has in­ stead, aggravated our situation. Today, our dollar is worth only 42 cents. Cheap money means high prices. As to how the government can encourage greater production, Sena­ tor Flanders has already outlined to you. I just want to add this point. The government should also discourage anything that holds up production. Let them discourage strikes and work stoppages, by . -·.. HERMAN W. STEINKRAUS PAGE TWO encouraging labor and management cooperation. No matter what you may think about strikes, there is one undisputed fact about them; when a strike is called, everything s t ops. There is no production. It is a costly loss to everybody - labor, management, and the public. It

is a loss that e~ds in highe~ prices.

Finally, the government should organize a. campaign to tell the consumer what he can do as an individual to help bring prices down. Develop a program of cooperation, through radio, the press, and other agencies, urging all groups to do their individual part to save, to spend wisely, and to produ~e more. Such a campaign of joint voluntary action helped us win the war. It should certainly be tried in this fight against the high cost of living.

As for price control, frankly, Mayor Humphrey, I do not think it would solve the problem, nor did Chester Bowles when asked by the Joint Committee on the President's Economic Report, when he said it worked in war time, but he did not believe it would work effectively in peace time. At best; it is a stop gap, and never touches the underlying causes. It is like clamping a lid on a pot of water that is boiling over, instead of turning off the fire. A start on price controls leads only to more an~ more controls of both prices and wages, with ine'li table black markets and raclteteering. Hew during the last election campaign many promises were made. The new admini s t~ a t i on has r :~dged t o doubl e the expenditures on Social Security; to maintai n or raise pxesent farm prices; to encourage higher wages, and to increase t he minimum wage; to provide Federal aid to education; to i&itiate social ized medicine; to spend more on national defense; and so forth. Some of these may be desirable, but we cannot deny that this money .must come from the only source of income a government has, your pocket and mine. HERMAN W. STEINKRAUS PAGE THREE Since the high cost of living is the number one problem in this country today, we must economize, we must win this battle, both for our own sake and for the sake of the rest of the world. MARK STARR PAGE ONE

Last time I had the honor of appearing on The Town Ball of the Air, it was to hear Senator Joe Ball prove that the people of this country favored the Taft-Hartley. He knows better now and Senator eleet Hubert Humphrey who retired him is here. Congratulations Hubert carry on that fight you so well began in Philadelphia for civil rights and help us keep prices out of the stratosphere. Because next to the repeal of Taft-Hartley the high cost of living demands urgent attention from the President, the Slst Congress and all of us.

25~ milk, 95~ eggs and a dollar a pound meat; how the heck can poor folk eat? President Truman in his speeches referred to runaway prices and to current all-time peak profits. Statistics were on his side--and also on November 3 tbe wajoritF of tbe 'people of the u.s.A.

The popular fallacy is that high wages have caused high prices. But the facts are that except for a few months in the spring of 1946, the average factory worker's weekly pay has fallen steadily behind in the race with prices. Union members have preserved their living standards only by asking wage increases. Because union wages rose more than the average most union members have just about managed to break even and are better off than the re~etvers of -those fixed incomes referred to by Senator Fl a n d ~rs. Most of the living cost increase has been due to food prices, which rose 5.4$ f~om August 1945 to August 1948, and food costs account for almost haJf the worker's budget. Price rises of 36% for clothing and 341 for housefurnishings in those three years have added to tbe worker's hardships. If unions had not asked for wage increases their members. would not be able to pay their bills. MARK STARR PAGE TWO

That is why unions will be compelled to talk about the fourth round

of wage increases. That is why that 40~ minimum wage of 1938 sounds ridiculous and needs elevation to at least 75 cents.

In spite of all wage increases won since the war, the cost to tndustry of its total wage and salary bill today takes a smaller part of the market value of its products than in 1939, leaving a larger part to go to owners and investors in profits. Value created by industry is far higher than in 1939. About half the increase is due to a much greater volume of production, and half to the drastic price rises which have added nothing to the "real" value of the product. Labor has produced more and received relatively less. Industrial managements have in general set prices much higher than necessary to cover the cost of higher wages. This has left a larger proportion each year to go to profits and accounts for what the Wall Street Journal describes as '!an upward surge in profits for industry as a whole."

Take a rayon dress which in 1939 cost $7.87 and is now $14.90. In this increase labor cost has gone from $1.17 to $1.53; materials from $2.00 to $4.41; overhead profit $1.58 to $2.87 and retailers' markup from $3.12 to $5.~9.

The government therefore, should ~ke public the relation between high profits and high prices. Apply controls to strategic and basic commodi~ies and services until there is an· adequate supply. Use credit control and allocations to this end, revive subsidies to keep prices down as the Farmers Union has proposed. MARK STARR PAGE THREE

Meanwhile, appeal to the public to cooperate against any possible black market and expose any attempt to hold back supplies. Our citizens can surely be as honest as their fellows in Canada, Britain and Scandinavia. Maybe price wardens, like the wartime air-raid wardens should be organized. There is a peace yet to be won.

Taxes on excess profits and investigations of monopoly prices and profits should also be applied. Why should not Management, as the AFL proposes, bring unions into consultation to cut costs, to let the workers share in increased productivity and stop the dangerous spiral which otherwise will compel the organized workers to push for increased wages and imperil our domestic peace, our defense pre­ paration and our reconstruction efforts abroad? Some employers have already cut their prices and brought their workers into part~ership. Cooperation, not cupidity, pays. Let Senator Flanders tell Mr. Littl£ and his gypsy watered capital kind that New England does not want any Nashua's. Let Mr. Steinkraus get into a huddle with Federal Local AFL 24,411 in Bridgeport Brass and give us good examples. NOW ON TELEVISION NOVEMBER 16, 1948 WJZ-TV New York WFIL-TV Philadelphia 534TH BROADCAST

BROADCAST BY STATIONS OF THE AMERICAN BROADCASTING CO.

leg, U.S. Pot. OfL

What Should the Administration Do About the High Cost of Living? Moderator, GEORGE V. DENNY, JR.

Speakers RALPH E. FLANDERS HUBERT H. HUMPHREY HERMAN W. STEINKRAUS MARK STARR

(See also page 12) .------COMING------. --November 23, 1948-- Should There Be Strider Government Control of Lobbies? --November 30, J 948-- Are Our Ideals Being Destroyed by the Machine Age?

Published by THE TOWN HALL, Inc., New York J 8, N.Y.

VOLUME 14, NUMBER 29 ~ $4.50 A YEAR: 1 Oc A COPY CONTENTS

unt of the meeting reported in this Bulletin was transcribed from re· Hee!illrJ ***The 3cco *** liu11 cordings made of th e actual broadcast and represents the exact content of the The publishers and printer are n ot 1 meeting as nearly as such m ec han ism permits. OF AMERICA'S TOWN MEETING OF THE AIR responsible for the statements of the speakers or the points of view pres en ted. BULLETIN -~ GEORGE V. DENNY, JR., MODERATOR ~~ THE BROADCAST OF NOVEMBER 16: "What Should the Administration Do About the NOVEMBER 16, 1948 VOL. 14, No. 29 High Cost of Living?" '

Mr. DENNY ------3 What Should the Administration Do About the Mayor HUMPHREY ------4 High Cost of Living? Senator FLANDERS ------6 Announcer: Meeting of the Air," Mr. George ------7 Mr. STARR ------Did you call your friends last V. Denny, Jr. ( Applame.) Mr. STEINKRAUS______9 week or tonight to remind them ______12 Moderator Denny: THE SPEAKERS' COLUMN_ of Town Meeting? Each week Good evening, neighbors. Well, QUESTIONS, PLEASE! ------18 more Town Meeting fans are act­ the campaign is over, the new Ad­ ___* _ _ _ ing as modern Town Criers on the ministration has been elected and telephone, at grocery shops, parties, THE BROADCAST OF NOVEMBER 23: we're about to ·get down to the and club meetings, reminding their business of dealing with some of "Should There Be Stricter Government Control friends, in the interest of good citi­ the problems that will face the of Lobbies?" zenship, to listen to Town Meet­ Administration and the new Con­ ___* ___ ing each Tuesday night at this when it meets in January. hour. And if you live in New gress THE BROADCAST OF NOVEMBER 30: York or Philadelphia you can see One of the subjects about which "Are Our Ideals Being Destroyed by the Town Meeting on television. President Truman talked most fre­ Machine Age?" Your Town Meeting is dedicated quently in his campaign w as the ___* _ _ _ to the advancement of an honestly matter of high prices. \Vhat will informed public opinion and the or should the new Administration The Broadcast-Telecast of Nov. 16, 1948, originated subjects. are selected with the help do about this subject is the ques­ in Town Hall, New York City, from 8:30 to 9:30p.m., of Town Meeting listeners every- tion before us tonight. EST, over the American Broadcasting Co. Network. . where. So join the growing ranks May I be personal for a mo­ of the modern Town Criers and ment? This morning at a neighbor­ T own M eeting is published by The T own Hall. Inc., Town Meeting Pub. keep your friends informed about hood grocery store here in New licatioil O ffice : 400 S. Front St., Columbus 15 , Ohio. Send Subscriptions ond for single copy orders to Town Hall, 123 West 43rd St., New York 18, N. Y. Town Meeting topics each week. York, my wife paid 99 cents Subscription price, $ i . 5 0 a year. 1 Oc a c opy. E ntered as second-class matter, To preside over our discussion, a dozen of eggs, 98 cents for May 9, 1942, at the Post Offi ce at Columbus, Ohio. under the Act of March 3, 1879. here is our moUnited States Senate where he was statesmanship. thought, enough money to keep Finally, we must revive the promptly put on the Senate Bank­ The Government can make a them in comfort for their declin­ means by which our standard of ing and Currency Committee. I contribution here by a congres­ ing years. I living h~s been raised for genera­ take pleasure in presenting now tions past and largely within the sional investigation of business There are millions of these peo­ ­ the Honorable Ralph E. Flanders, industrial experience of Mr. Stein­ profits. Except for this investiga ple and it is these millions who lies Republican Senator from the State kraus and myself. We must ac­ tion, this solution very largely in the end will probably bring Government. of Vermont. Senator Flanders. celerate invention, building, in­ outside the hands of the long expected slump in prices, and Govern­ ( Applttuse.) stallation, and use of labor-saving Let labor, business production, a n d employment their parts. ( Ap­ equipment. The new Administra­ ment each play Senator Flanders: through the progressive failure of pLause.) Thank you, Mr. Denny. The their purchasing power. tion must devise tax policies which subject assigned is, "What would To cure inflation, we can in­ will channel profits into this time­ Moderator Denny: the winning party do about the crease production or decrease pur­ tested means of increasing pro­ Thank you, Senator Flanders. high cost of living?" I do not be­ chasing power. Increase of pro­ duction. Our next speaker .is the educa­ long to the winning party, but I duction is limited by the fact that Finally, we must remember that tional director of one of the am glad to give Mayor and Sen­ we cannot put many more people it is goods we consume--not dol­ largest unions in the country, the ator-elect Humphrey and his as­ to work since we have practically lars. International Ladies G a r m e n t sociates g o o d minority advice. full employment now. When So much for increasing the Workers Union. He was a mem­ (Laughter.) Mayor Humphrey now, or the Na­ goods to be bought. How about ber of the President's Committee I'm sure Mayor Humphrey will tional Association of Manufac­ decreasing the supply of money on Higher Education when it agree that prices rise when there is turers earlier, assumed that in­ to buy the goods with? The Gov­ existed, and is a trustee of Town more money ready to buy things creased production is easy, they ernment must move with caution Hall, New York. We are very than there are things to buy. forgot full employment. I'm sorry here to avoid unemployment. To happy to welcome to this plat­ There are few people who are to see Mayor Humphrey falling keep prices in line without unem­ form, Mr. Mark Starr. ( Ap­ willing to believe that they are into the same trap with the Na­ ployment is our objective. plause.) causing inflation by an oversupply tional Association of Manufac­ Lastly, we need more statesman­ Mr. Starr: of money, yet the figures show that turers. (Laughter.) ship in business management and The last time I had the honor a large segment of the population Production is likewise limited by organized labor. We need restraint of appearing on the Town Hall of has improved its purchasing power the 40-hour week. The productive in asking for higher wages on the the Air, it was to hear Senator over prewar conditions. records run up from '41 on were part of those groups who are far­ Ball say that the people of this There is another large segment not done on the 40-hour week. ing better as compared with pre- country favored Taft-Hartley. Poor 6 7 Joe, he knows better now and costs account for almost half the and high prices. Apply controls fourth speaker, Mr. Steinkraus, Senator-elect Humphrey, who re­ worker's budget. to strategic and basic commodities is one of America's leading busi­ tired him, is here tonight. ( Ap­ If unions had not asked for and services until they are in ade­ nessmen who is never afraid to plause.) Congramlations, Hubert, wage increases, their members quate supply. Use credit control speak his mind courageously and carry on that .fight you so well be­ would not now be able to pay and allocations to this end; revive convincingly on public questions. gan in Philadelphia for civil their bills. That is why unions subsidies to keep prices down as Incidentally, Mr. Steinkraus, a rights. (Applause.) may be compelled to talk about the the Farfi!ers' Union proposed and, delegation of your fellow towns­ Also help up to keep prices fourth round of wage increases. meanwhile, appeal to the public to men from Bridgeport is here in from going up into the stra­ That is why that forty cent mini­ cooperate against a n y possible Town Hall with us tonight and tosphere, because next to the re­ mum wage of 1938 sounds per­ black market, and expose any at­ the text of this program will be the peal of Taft-Hartley, the high cost fectly ridiculous and needs eleva­ tempt to hold back supplies. main feature of a labor manage­ of living demands attention from tion to at least 75 cents now. Our citizens here can surely be ment supplement to be published President Truman, the 81st Con­ In spite of all wage increases as honest as their fellows in Can­ next Sunday by the B1·idgeport gress, and, indeed, from all of us won since the war, the cost to in­ ada, Britain, and in Scandinavia. Herald. -25 cent milk, 95 cent eggs, $1 dustry of its total wage and salary Maybe price wa rdens like the war­ We're happy to welcome back a pound meat-how the heck can bill today takes a smaller part of time air-raid wardens should be to Town H all the president and poor folk eat? the market value of its products organized. There is a peace yet general manager of the Bridgeport President Truman in his speeches than in 1939, leaving a larger part to be won. Brass Company, of Bridgeport, did refer to runaway prices and to go to owners and investors in Taxes on excessive profits, and Connecticut, Mr. Herman Stem­ to the current all-time peak profits. profits. Labor has produced more investigation of monopoly prices kraus. ( Appltmse.) Statistics were on his side and and received relatively less. Those and profits should also be applied. Mr. Steinkraus: also, on November 2, the majority are the facts. Why should not management, as Thank you, Mr. Denny. I believe of the people of the United States Industrial managements have, the A. F. of L. proposes, bring this problem is much more com­ of America. in general, set prices much higher unions into consultation to cut plex than Mr. Starr's analysis in­ The popular fallacy is that high than necessary to cover the cost of costs, to let the workers share in dicates. The fact is that high wages have caused high prices. high wages, and this has left a increased productivity, and stop wages, high taxes, high profits, a The facts are that, except for a larger proportion each year to go the dangerous spiral which will huge federal budget, cheap money, few months in the spring of 1946, to profits, and accounts for what otherwise compel the organized foreign relief, low production have the average f ac tor y worker's the Wall Street Journal itself de­ workers to push for increased scribes as an upward surge in all been factors of this high cost weekly pay has fallen steadily be­ wage~? hind in the race against prices. profits for industry as a whole. of living. · Let Senator Flanders tell Mr. Because union wages rose more Take a rayon dress which in Neither labor, industry, Govern­ Little and his gypsy watered capi­ 1939 costs $7.87; it will now cost ment, the farmers, nor the con­ than the average, most union mem­ tal kind that New ·England doesn't bers have just about managed to you $14.90. In this increase, labor sumers are singly responsible. Yet want any more Nashuas. break even, and, so are better off costs have gone from $1.17 to each of these groups and every than the receivers of those fixed $1.53; materials from $2.00 to Let Mr. Steinkraus get into a single individual of us here to­ incomes referred to by Senator $4.41; overhead profit $1.58 tu huddle with Federal Local A. F. night are affected and must do our Flanders just now. $2.87, and the retailers mark-up of L. 2441 1 in Bridgeport Brass part to help bring prices down. and give us some good examples. Most of the living cost increase from $3.12 to $5.99. As for price control, frankly, (Applause.) has been due to food prices which The Government, therefore, in Mr. Humphrey, I do not think it rose 54 per cent from August, my optruon, should make public Moderator Denny: would solve the problem, nor did 1945 to August, 1948, and food the relations between high profits Thank you, Mark Starr. Our Chester Bowles last winter when 8 9 asked by members of the Joint of the President to stabilize our Such a campaign of joint voluntary our friend, Mr. Steinkraus. I'd Committee on the President's Eco­ money, as Senator Flanders has action helped us to win the war. just like to get it quite clear in nomic Report. He said it worked referred to. Many of these easy It should certainly be tried in this your mind, Mr. Steinkraus, that in wartime, the time Mayor policies, these easy money policies, fight against the high cost of liv­ Hubert Humphrey is not advocat­ Humphrey refers to, but he did not were set up at a time when post­ ing. ing price control authority, and I believe it would work effectively war depression was expected, you Now the last election campaign, said price control authority, as a in peacetime. remember. The depression did which has just finished, had many panacea. At best, price control is a stop­ not materialize, but the cheap promises made. The new Adminis­ I'd like to make a comparison gap and never touches the under­ money which was intended as a tration is pledged to double ex­ here. If a member of your family lying cause. It is like clamping counter-balance has aggravated our penditures on social security, to is ill, suffering from a high fever, a lid on ·top of a pot of boiling present situation. Today our dol­ maintain or raise present farm and, believe me, the inflation and water, instead of turning off the lar is worth only 42 cents. Cheap prices, to encourage higher wages, high prices are plenty high fever, fire. A start on price controls leads money means high prices. to increase the minimum wages, one of the first things that you'd only to more and more controls As to how the Government can to spend more on national de­ do would be to try to make that of both prices and wages with in­ encourage greater production, I fense, and so forth. patient a little bit comfortable. evitable black markets and racket­ just want to add this to what Sena­ Some of these things may be de­ Oftentimes, a medicinal product, eering. tor Flanders has already said. The sirable, but we cannot deny that such as an aspirin, or some kind There are some things which our Government should also discourage this costs money and the only of an analgesic, is used in order Government can do itself and im­ anything that holds up produc­ source of that money is out of to soothe the patient, in order to mediately. tion. Let them discourage strikes your pocketJ and mine. hold the fever at ebb, or, at least, First of all, there is a desperate and wo·rk stoppages by encourag­ So since the high cost of living in control, and then you apply the need for the Government to prac­ ing labor and management coop­ penicillin or whatever other medi­ is the No. 1 problem in this tice more economy in its own oper­ eration. cal treatment may be advisable. ation. ( Applame.) Our government No matter what you may think country today, we must economize. We must win this battle both for Now, you see the difference be­ spending is ten times greater than about strikes, there is one undis­ our own sake and for the sake of tween Mr. Steinkraus and myself is, it was 16 years ago, although puted fact about them. When a the rest of the world. Thank you. he wants the patient to suffer. He our national income has only in­ strike is called, everything stops­ (Applause.) is of the opinion, for example, that creased five times. Our national there is no production. It is a bank credit controls are good. So debt has shot sky high. We've costly loss to everybody-to labor­ Moderator Denny: am I. We already have it. got to balance our national budget ers, management, and to the pub­ .. Thank you, Mr. Steinkraus. Now He is of the opinion that con­ in all years, all good years, and lic. It is a loss that ends in higher it is in order to have a litde dis­ sumer credit control is good. So not just once in 16 years. Our prices. cussion up here around the micro­ am I. He's against strikes. I don't Governm'ent must live within its Finally, the Government should phone, before we take the ques­ like strikes either. He's for con­ income just as you and I and every organize, I believe, a campaign of tions from the audience. Gentle­ sumer education. So am I. other taxpayer have to do. This information to tell the consumer men, will you come up here and But, Mr. Steinkraus, I want to exorbitant spending comes right what he can do as an individual to start the discussion? How about ask you something. What are you back to you and me in higher help bring prices down. Develop Mr. Humphrey, we haven't heard going to do about the glaring taxes and higher prices. a program of cooperation through from him for a while. How about fact that the food prices are up de­ The second thing the Govern­ the radio, the press, and other it, Mr. Mayor? spite the fact that farmers' prices ment must do is to reverse the agencies, urging all groups to do Mayor Humphrey: Thank you, are going down? What are you expansion of bank credit by using their individual part to save, to Mr. Denny. Yes, I have a couple going to do about the 74 per cent the controls already in the hands spend wisely, and to produce more. of questions. I'll start out with increase in corporation profits? 10 11 What are you going to do about profits are getting ahead of wages, America suffer, and what are we tion and during the meantime you the fact that real wages are run­ and prices are sky high, and no­ to do? (Applause.) had to apply price control authority ning behind the cost of living, body can deny it. How long must Mr. Denny: Thank you. Mr. in those areas where there were Steinkraus, can you answer that exorbitant prices, exorbitant profits, machine-gun attack in about one and gouging of the market. THE SPEAKERS' COLUMN minute? (Laughter.) I said very specifically that pro­ Mr. Steinkraus: Mr. Humphrey, duction must be stepped up. I HERMAN W. STEINKRAUS-Mr. Steinkraus is at present Mayor of Minneapolis and was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and re­ o ne of the youngest men ever to hold I am glad that there are some used the example of steel. I men­ ceived his college training at Western that office. Born in Wallace, South Reserve University in that dry. During D akota, in 1911 , he srudied for a year at things on which you and I agree tioned that where there is the World \'m· sity of Minnesota, Mr. Humphrey became help and merce, Mr. Steinkraus is also a member a member of the administrative staff of profits.---all of these things. But did it with government of President Truman's Labor Relations \'University of Vermont, Norwich Uni~ ever been tried it during divisional organizer and lecturer for the versity, and Northwestern University. else in the history of the world. week. Let's not forget that. ( Ap­ National Council of Labour Colleges of Serving as an apprentice machinist and England . After coming to the United draftsman, Senator Flanders became a de­ (Applause.) plause.) Now, I would like to States, Mr. Starr taught British labor si.ct ner wlt.b the International P aper Box history and economics at Brookwood Machinery Co. From 1905 to 1910, he Mr. Denny: All right. Mr. ask this question of Mayor Labor College at Katonah, N.Y., from was editor of !lft~ cbinery. In 1910 he he­ 1928 ro 19'3, and was extension director came an engineer with the Fellows Gear Mayor? Humphrey. He said something in 1934. Since 1935, he has been educa­ Shaper Co. Two years later, he became a quick prices are going down. tiona l director of the International Ladies' director and manager of Jones & Lamson Mayor Humphrey: Just about farm Garment Workers Union. Co. of which he has been president since answer; I want to correct the I wohder whether he subscribes Mr. Starr has written several books on 1933. He is also an executive in several labor problems. He is a member of the other companies. record. I know Mr. Steinkraus and to the proposal of the incoming President's Committee on Higher Educa­ In 1946, Senator Flanders was elected tion and a member of the U. S. Advisory to his seat in the Senate, but before I do not want to be arguing about chairman of the Agricultural Com­ Commission on Educational Exchange. that he had b een a member of numerous government commissions and boards. He different things that are not in the mittee of the House, who proposes HUBERT H. HUMPHREY-Elected to the is the author of several books and many that the solution to Senate from Minnesota, Mr. Humphrey recbnical articles. record. I said to replace the new Aiken-Hope high prices was increased produc- Bill by the old plan of full price 12 13 support in times of bumper crop and both the farmers' union and two about Senator Flanders' argu­ not in one iota, with the exception production. a number of economists are in ment about the 40-hour week and of one commodity, due to price In other words, you're going to favor of that at the present time. the price-support program. Now, support. That one commodity is get no relief on the price of pota­ I think that is in part a reply to our distinguished friend and Sen­ potatoes, and the potato produc­ toes. You're going to have bumper Senator Flanders' suggestion that ator, may I say that there is noth­ tion was· something that this Gov­ crops. You're going to pay scarcity there is nothing we can do ing in the law that prevents a ernment fostered for war, to get prices for them, and they're going about it. worker from working more than alcohol, so that we could have to be sold for 20 cents a bushel Mr. Denny: Thank you, Mr. 40 hours a week. Let's not con­ muruttons. Believe me that's a for feeding hogs. Steinkraus, do you want to get fuse the issue one bit. part of the war debt, and you can Mr. Denny: All right, Mayor in here? A worker can work 80 hours a pay a little war debt to the farmer Humprey, go ahead, but I want to Mr. Steinkraus: Mr. Denny, I'd week if he can stand it physically. just as well as you can to the U.S. get Mr. Starr in on this pretty just like to say to Senator-elect All that is required is that the Steel, as far as Hubert Humphrey quick. Humphrey, that when he gets employer pay time and a h alf for is concerned. (Applause.) Mayor Humphrey: Let Mr. down to Washington, one of the overtime - that's all that's re­ I just want to finish up here Starr go, and I'll wait here. questions that he should be rais­ quired. I might point out that on my friend, Mr. Steinkraus, be­ Mr. Denny: Mr. Starr, all right. ing is what can the Government for an increase of approximately cause I gather that he wants to Mr. Starr: I don't know whether do to cut the high cost of living? one and two-tenths per cent on talk about wages. price control is aspirin or peni­ Do some of these promises which wages, at say $1 an hour, for an Mr. Denny: Why don't you hold cillin. I do know that it was nec­ have been made by Mr. Truman additional four hours a week, pro­ that a minute and let the Senator essary at certain stages, and the and other candidates of higher duction goes up 10 per cent. answer what you've just said, a nd people who think that the war is wages, higher pensions, higher If the American management then we'll come back to you. entirely forgotten and there are everything, are those going to help wants more work-week, or longer Senator Flanders: With regard no emergencies which our Nation the cost of living? hours, they can get it. All they to that agricultural program, I do should shoulder, I think, are not I'd like to ask Mr. Humphrey have to do is pay for it, and they not believe that Mayor Humphrey really evaluating the situation cor­ particularly, "Will the Govern­ can even absorb it. will stand by the position of giv­ rectly. ment favor a fourth round of Now about the price-support ing maximum price support to Both our internal and our ex­ wage increases?" Will that help I program. Let me just say this: As bumper crops. I am with him in ternal responsibility involve a dis­ the high cost of living? Will that far as the farmer is concerned, giving maximum price support to cipline and a high spirit of citizen­ help reduce the cost of living? I'd just because we have had a few crop failures, or to low crops, but ship which, I think, will be as high like to know that, because we're bumper crops, having lived out in I certainly am not with him, nor or should be as high as it was dur­ facing that situation in America the plains of Dakota and in the are you, in paying the highest ing the war. Further, in my paper, today. We have got to stop higher fine wheat and the fine fields of price supports for bumper crops, I tried to suggest that instead of costs if we're going to get any­ Minnesota, I have seen the days because that is going to affect you, price control, or as an alternative where. We've got to stop them when we didn't have bumper crops. as it has in potatoes. (Applause.) method to it, we should go back first, and then maybe we can do There are very few surpluses left Mr. Denny: Senator Flanders, to subsidizing. Put subsidies in, something to reduce them. around in America. I am for that while you're here at this micro­ let prices be determined by supply Mr. Denny: Thank you. All price-support program and that phone, may I ask you to clarify and demand, and subsidize possible right, Mr. Mayor. Stigler amendment program with just what this price s uppon pro­ losses •of the high-cost producer. Mayor Humphrey: We 11, it no ifs and ands about it. gram does in a specific commodity That has kept prices down in would seem that I am accepting I w ant it quite clear that the -just how it supports prices. Canada and in Great Britain. It a few darts here tonight. But first food costs that my friends in New Senator Flanders: I'm talking might very well be applied here of all, I'd like to say a word or York City are paying tod~y are now about the Hope-Aiken Bill, 14 15 which is a peacetime price-support off that subject. The Joint Con­ in government? In the Veterans' York, enclosing 10<; to cover the Euro­ bill, not a wartime price-support gressional Committee on Economic Administration? On the cost of printing and mailing. You We're bill. The Aiken-Hope or Hope­ Report to the President has said pean Recovery Program? should allow at least two weeks debt. to Aiken-! say Aiken-Hope because the prime number one reason for already paying off on the for delivery. If you would like Senator Aiken is my senior col­ the high cost of living is the high You can't have any more economy subscribe to the Bulletin for six fixed a league in the Senate-proposes cost of government. I have not on the interest- that's a months, enclose $2.35, or for this and it is enacted into law that beard Mr. Humphrey say anything charge. What one of the pro­ year send $4.50. Or if you would there is a sliding scale of price about that. Let's stick to this sub­ grams, what group of that 15 like a trial subscription, enclose support. When you have a bumper ject, "What Can or Should Our per cent of the budget that's left $1.00 for eleven issues. crop, you have a minimum scale of Government Do About the High over after you've got the war debt, The question period which fol­ price-support, and when you have Cost of Living?". and it's the first the interest, national defense, and lows is completely spontaneous a small crop, you have a maximum reason for the high cost of living. the Veterans' Administration and and unrehearsed. In order to dis­ ques­ scale of price support. That is a Mr. Denny: Thank you. Mr. GI benefits, what, out of that other card irrelevant and useless solid, sensible, peacetime, farm Humphrey, you may have the final 15 per cent that's left over, Mr. tions, members of the audience are Old eir questions of price-support program. word here before we go into the Steinkraus, would you r educe? asked to write th Mayor Humphrey also indicated question period. Age Pensions? (Applause.) twenty-five words on a card and to an Assistant that anybody could work 80 hours Mayor Humphrey: I will just Mr. Denny: All right. We'll send them back a week who wanted to provided accept the argument as stated by give Mr. Steinkraus time to an­ Moderator by one of the ushers. that in just a minute. Now, If the question is approved, the his employer paid him the regu­ Mr. ~teinkraus and say this, that swer and during the lation half time. Of course, what a Joint Congressional Committee while we get ready for our ques­ usher returns it we're talking about is increased may say that one of the reasons for tion period, I'm sure that you, our question period the questioner in the three or four production and lower prices. the high cost of living is the high listeners, will be interested holds up one, two, to the moder­ Now, paying time and a half does cost of government, but the im­ following message. fingers to indicate whom his ques­ not mean lower prices in most in­ partial, objective, neutral, non­ Announcer: You are listening ator the perso·n to Amer­ This is to keep dustries. I could go into the re­ political, non-partisan Council of to the 534th broadcast of tion is directed. originating to­ having too many questions lationship between fixed expenses Economic Advisors as set up ica's Town Meeting from York. the same person. Mr. Denny and production expenses ad infini­ under the Full Employment Act night in Town Hall, New for Hall spotting two or three mem­ tum and ad nauseum but just let of 1946 does not say that. It does For your convenience, Town is now text of the audience to begin the me say that in general and for not say that at all. (Applause.) prints each week a complete bers period and the big para­ most industries time and a half It points to profits. It points to of each Town Meeting, including question and answers to fol­ bolic microphone on either side will not reduce the price of the scarcities. It points, if you please the questions low in the Town Meeting Bulletin. of the stage and the television product. to the misuse of American ma­ Copies of tonight's program, as cameras are being trained on the Mr. Denny: Thank you. Mr. terials. I think there's been a pro­ and future programs, first questioner. Now for our Steinkraus? gram that was offered by that non­ well as past may be secured by writing to question period, we return you to Mr. Steinkraus: Mr. D enny, I'd partisan and non-political group New York 18, New Mr. Denny. just like to get us back to the of economic advisors. Town Hall, subject. As you introduced the Just a final word that I'd like subject, it was, "What Should the to say about economy in govern­ Government Do To Help Reduce ment. !"want my friend, Mr. Stein­ the High Cost of Living?" Now kraus to tell me where in particu­ Mayor Humphrey and the rest of lar - not these generalities- but us have been getting a little far where do you want economy 16 17 national defense. So by controlling don't have to tell you. ( Ap­ QUESTIONS, PLEASEI prices and by holding prices down, plause.) Mr. Demzy: Now we are ready aggregate, indicated that they took actually what you do is to cut Mr. Denny: Thank you. Mr. for the question period. This about two cents out of the cus­ down the cost of government, and Mayor, come along. You want to gentleman on the front row. tomer's dollar, and that if they gave you also cut down the necessity for comment on that? Now's your Man: I'd like to address my up all their profits into reducing any increased taxes. I won't say chance to take the ball right back. question to Mr. Steinkmus. I'd prices that the customer would any necessity, but it has a levelling Mayor Humphrey: Thank you. like to know your reason why the have gotten 98 cent beef instead of effect, because prices and taxes go I would just like to say this. It N.A.M. failed to live up to its dollar beef. up and down together on that always intrigues me to find a busi­ promise in 1946 that if price con­ Mr. Denny: Thank you. The program. (Applause.) nessman who is terrifically inter­ trols were lifted, lower prices lady in the blue hat. Yes? Mr. Denny: Thank you, Mr. ested in cutting down the cost of would result. Lady: Senator Hubert Humph­ Humphrey, but I don't think we Government. While the population Mr. Steinkraus: I certainly would rey. called on .Mr. Steinkraus to an- of the Nation goes up, the require­ not stand here to try to answer Mr. Denny: Senator Humphrey. swer the question which you asked ments for defense go up, prices for the N.A.M.'s failure to have All right. She'll make you a Sena­ just at the dose of the discussion go up. Always cut down the cost correctly analyzed the problem. I tor before you get down there. period. Mr. Steinkraus, are you of government, but never cut think that many statements have (Laughter.) ready to answer the question that prices. Don't ever cut any prices­ been made, not only by the N.A.M. Lady: Senator-elect. A reduction the Senator-elect asked you? He never do that. but by our Government, of things of prices means a reduction of cor­ asked you one in particular-what Then when we finally get the that didn't work out the way they poration profits and, therefore, place in government would you be­ argument, we find out that there intended. I think that it's pretty government tax income. How is gin with your economy. It's my are hundreds of bureaus. Every­ hard to know just what the right this possible while we spend bil­ fault that I didn't bring you up body knows that you can cut the answer is. We know that the funda­ lions for re-armament? here sooner. (Applause.) cost of government. All right, mental law of supply and demand Mayor Humphrey: A reduction­ Mr. Steinkraus: In the first place, where do you cut it? I want to hear still operates, but sometimes, when ! didn't get the question. I'd like to say it's a pretty sad situa­ specifically. (Applause.) you have full employment, it oper­ Mr. Denny: No, I just-would tion, Mayor Humphrey, if a newly­ I've been the Mayor of a city of ates much slower. I think it was you repeat that? elected Senator doesn't know where about half a million people and a very ill-advised campaign my­ Lady: Well, the government is we can cut the cost of government. I always have these curbstone tax self. spending billions for re-armament. (Applause.) I'm afraid you laid experts, that always know where Mr. Demzy: All right. Thank How can we reduce prices and, yourself open for that one! But to cut the cost of government, un­ you. The gentleman right here in therefore, corporation profits which certainly there are a great many til they get in the government, or the middle of the hall. in turn reduce tax income? recommendations, including a great until they're hired to make a sur­ Mmz: Senator Flanders. Don't Mayor Humphrey: Well, as a many by the economic advisers of vey of government, and then they you think that we should have an matter of fact, the items that we the President, whom you refer to, come and give this kind of report, excess profit tax on the food buy for national defense and for who have made some of the sug­ that you've got to spend more to monopoly such as the beef trust? European recovery are items that gestions for cutting down certain get better services. That's the re­ Senator Flanders: That's an in­ are bought on the American bureaus, overlapping bureaus by port. (Applause.) teresting question to ask. When we market, in the main. As a matter the hundreds, by the thousands. Mr. Denny: All right. Come were having our price investiga­ of fact, high prices and inflation (Applause.) It doesn't take a bril­ along, Mr. Steinkraus. You're at tions last y ear, the published fig­ is literally crippling in some as­ liant man to know whe·re the Gov­ bat again. ures of the beef packers, which pects our European Recovery Pro­ ernment can save a lot of money. Mr. Steinkraus: Well, Mayor showed enormous profits in the gram, and is increasing the cost of You all know that yourselves. I Humphrey, you're going to find out 18 19 in the next few days a great many measure of defense whatsoever. them, there's a way to pay places where you can save in this (Applause.) for sought and is insist~g at the them. I can figure out one way present time on Government and it will be from Mr. Denny: Thank you. I don't an extension of to pay for them-an excess profits control to somebody that's an expert. That is want to deny you the microphone, effectively keep down tax (applause) upon American cor- the cost of living not ex-President Hoover and the vari­ Mr. Mayor, if you want to speak, only for the porations that this year, accord- organized workers ous comrrusstons under him. but let's get some more of these but for the ing to the estimates of the No- community (Shouts and applttttse.) And, boy, questions from the audience. as a whole. ( Ap- All vember letter of the City National when you get that, you'll know right. plause.) · Bank of New York-this fine city Mr. Denny: where to make some savings, and Mr. Humphrey: I just wanted Thank you. Here's -the net profits of American cor- a young lady and, if you don't make them, the Amer­ to offer one thing. Since we've in­ well, she's a porations this year will be over 21 lovely brunette with ican people are going to be sadly jected a bit of politics, tonight, I a dark blue billion dollars net. (Applause.) or black blouse. disappointed. might say that I recall when ex­ Yes? Now, don't tell me that they Lady: Mayor Humphrey. Mr. Denny: All right. Thank President Hoover not only cut couldn't shave off two or three bil- Mr. Denny: Mayor you. Senator Flanders wants to down the cost of government. I Humphrey. lion dollars to help the veteran in (Laughter.) I think get in on this now. Yes, sir? can recall when the whole economy he's pleased by a housing program and the old the looks Se11ator Flanders: Yes, this is too was almost cut ;down. of the questioner. (Laughter age recipients (applause) without good to miss out on. (Laughter.) and applause.) · Lady: Do you feel that repeal­ going bankrupt, because I believe ing the Taft-Hartley The incoming Senator from .Min­ I would also like to remind Mr. law would they ought to make a profit. Now effect a change nesota has avoided one element in Steinkraus, and say in all courtesy in high prices, be­ if they get 18 billion they ought sides effecting a change the question between liimself and and in the best friendly spirit that in labor to be able to get by, don't you wages and privileges? Mr. Steinkraus, and that is that I can, that if the defense program think, for a year or two. ( Ap- Mayor Humphrey: his candidate and his party and, is so bad, and if the costs of gov­ W e 11, I plause.) would just as soon without doubt, himself, proposes ernment are so exorbitant, I re­ debate the Mr. Dem~y : All right, gentle- Taft-Hartley law on another to enormously increase govern­ call that for two quite long and pro­ men. You tossed that ball around gram, if Mr. Denny ment spending and, at the same dreary years, the opposition party will let me pretty well. Here's a gentleman on, but I don't time, promises lower prices. They w'

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