EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT

DELEGATION FOR RELATIONS WITH THE MASHREQ COUNTRIES AND THE GULF STATES

5th Interparliamentary Meeting European Parliament -

7-11 October 2001

Cairo

REPORT FROM THE CHAIRMAN, Mr Michel DARY

. Introduction

In accordance with the work programme of the Delegation for relations with the countries of the Mashrek and the Gulf States approved by the Conference of Presidents for the 2001 budgetary exercise, the delegation decided to send a working group to Egypt from 7-11 October 01. The working group was presided by Mr Michel Dary Chair of the delegation for relations with the countries of the Mashrek and the Gulf States. Other members included Mr Sami Nair, Mme Boumedienne- Thiery, and Mr Hugues Martin rapporteur on the Egypt - EU Association Agreement. In accordance with the decision of the Conference of Presidents of the 4 October, to increase the number of participants, Mr Vitiano Gemelli ( EPP, IT) joined the group.

The Conference of Presidents, further decided to follow the guide lines indicated by the Head of the Commission's office in concerning security and limited the working group's visit to Cairo.

II. Political questions

In view of the international climate following the events in New York of the 11 September 01, the delegation was unable to meet with the Prime Minister of the Egyptian Republic as originally planned.

The prevailing international situation and the war against terrorism launched by the of America and its actions in Afghanistan which had commenced on Sunday 7th October, dominated the political discussions that the working group held with its Egyptian counterparts. In the discussions with the all the Egyptian members of

FdR 455091 1 PE 309.590 Parliament and members of the executive, the terrorist acts of the 11 September were unequivocally condemned. It was pointed out that the Egyptian Administration had been calling for international action against terrorism for a considerable time, however it was only since the dreadful events in New York that serious co-ordinated international action was being taken. Some Egyptian parliamentarians appeared to resent this fact. Nevertheless there could be no doubt of the Egyptian government's support for the international coalition that the USA was attempting to construct. The European delegation was informed of the proposal by President Mubarak to convene an international Conference on terrorism and expressed support of the idea. It was necessary for all to have a clear definition of terrorism and all agreed that a clear distinction had to be made between wilful terrorist acts and justifiable resistance. It was made abundantly clear to all that there was a pressing need for the causes of terrorism to be addressed. It was clearly insufficient merely to take repressive action.

All the Egyptian interlocutors underlined the need for Europe to play a leading role in tempering USA action and ensuring that it did not escalate into uncontrollable proportions. It was also clearly necessary for all to stress that the actions that were being undertaken were not the beginnings of a war against Islam or constituted a clash of civilisations. Their purpose was and had to be seen to be the eradication of terrorism and the global respect of the rule of law. All agreed that Islam was a peaceful religion and should not be confused with fundamentalism which, whatever its religious or philosophical roots, led to disaster.

During its discussions with the members of the People' Assembly (Lower House), the delegation was made aware of the difference of approach of the Egyptian executive and Egyptian public opinion. Public opinion, which had at one time been very pro-western, had changed. The people were frustrated by the lack of impartiality the USA had shown in its dealings with the - Palestine conflict and in the way the Iraqi people were being punished whilst Israel was allowed to get away with murder. A profound hatred of unfair American policy had engendered a hatred of all that was American. The need for Europe to play a more important political role in Middle East politics, in line with its economic power, was stressed on many occasions. If terrorism was to be defeated and Egyptian, indeed Arab public opinion was to share in the effort to fight terror, a real solution to the Palestinian problem, which embraced the creation of a viable Palestinian State, had to be found rapidly. There was in the Egyptian view an urgent need to send international observers to the occupied territories in order to stop the violence.

During discussions with the Interior Minister General Habib El Adly, the delegation learnt that there was a real fear that if the military actions were extended into other Muslim countries, or if civilians were injured or killed, there could be considerable unrest in Egypt. The Minister underlined the difficulty Egypt had faced in trying to extradite convicted terrorists who had been granted political asylum in Europe. The problem was particularly acute in the United Kingdom, he pointed out. He expressed the hope that things would now improve and the real co-operation in the fight against terrorism would be the order of the day. Mme Boumedienne stressed the difficulty European nations had in extraditing people to countries which still had the death penalty. To the fear expressed

FdR 455091 2 PE 309.590 by the European delegation, that the State of Emergency which exists in Egypt could lead to abuses of human rights, the Minister explained that human rights abuses were systematically examined by parliament who had set up a high level committee on human rights. The Emergency law was not, he underlined unconstitutional. It had been adopted in order to deal with exceptional cases and was invoked in cases where the security of the State required it.

III. Economic questions:

The delegation was informed that the general economic situation in Egypt was suffering not only from the restructuring and privatisation programme that was necessary to meet the requirements of the Association agreement and the WTO but also from the effects of the Palestinian- Israeli conflict. The recent events in the USA and the launch of the war against terrorism were already having a drastic effect on tourism. Many parliamentarians, of both pro-government and opposition parties, underlined the difficulties that Egypt had encountered in the long negotiations that had been necessary before the agreement could be signed. The necessity of privatisation and the restructuring of the economy was clear to government and opposition. However 47 major industries were still centrally controlled for the fear of privatising at too fast a rate and worsening the already high unemployment was slowing down the implementation of reform. The Economy was still largely based on rent from the Suez Canal, payments made by the Egyptian Diaspora and petrol. It was clear that this could not be sustained as a long-term strategy. As far as the Association Agreement with the EU was concerned all the Egyptian politicians pointed out that the present terms of the EU association Agreement were unfavourable to Egypt. Egyptian industry would find it hard to compete in an open market. Public opinion was largely against privatisation as there was a justified fear that this would aggravate an already difficult labour market. It was also pointed out by both parliamentarians and the Minister of Economic Affairs Mr Boutros Gali that whereas agriculture and horticulture were the two areas, which could bring immediate benefit to the Egyptian economy, these were precisely the areas where access to the European market was severely restricted. All expressed the hope that these two domains could be reviewed within a short period.

In discussions with the Egyptian Liberal party (opposition), it was pointed out that most of those who took part in terrorist movements were in the 18 - 35 year's age group. This group suffered the most from the high unemployment rate. If terrorism was to be defeated it was necessary to answer the needs of the poor and unemployed who felt cut off from society.

The delegation had the opportunity of meeting with the Management team of the Egyptian Social fund. The Social fund is a government project co-financed with the . The social fund 's purpose is to create employment opportunities by participating and organising the financing of industrial 'start-ups. Over the past seven years 750.000 jobs have been created. The system is not based on the granting of direct grants but by guaranteeing low interest loans granted by the private banking sector. The Social fund then, helps would-be entrepreneurs draw up project plans and financial dossiers for banks. It is particularly active in Upper Egypt but it is active in all parts of

FdR 455091 3 PE 309.590 the country. At the end of the meeting, the delegation was taken to visit a small factory making machines used for the extrusion and moulding of plastic. The company had been entirely financed with the aid of the social fund and had successfully created a number of jobs requiring a wide range of skills. The delegation expressed approval of this initiative, which was seen as a positive manner to address the problems of unemployment caused by economic restructuring. However members expressed doubt as to whether these small young companies would be able to compete once the full impact of the Association Agreement hit the Egyptian Economy.

IV. Human rights including women's rights

The discussions the delegation held with members of the Egyptian establishment did not show much evolution in the general approach Egypt deals with these issues. Egyptian pro- government parliamentarians and ministers pointed out that the continuation of the State of Emergency which was recently prolonged for a further three years and has been in place since 1967, had been approved by parliament in accordance with the Constitution. The Minister of the Interior explained that the room for this particular law to be abused was very circumscribed. He did not doubt that there had been cases of human rights abuses and excessive zeal on the part of certain police officers but minimised the importance of such events and stressed that in such cases the perpetrators were brought to justice. As far as women's rights were concerned, it was pointed out to the delegation that economic necessity required more and more women to participate actively in the economic life of the country and this in turn was pushing Egyptian society towards granting more and more rights to women. Women could accede to many important functions both in the public sphere and politics as well as in the private sector. However there remained social restraints to women actually taking part in economic activities. Not least among which was the lack of the infrastructure necessary to look after children.

In discussions with His Holiness Sheikh de Al Azhar, M. Mohamed Sayyed Tantawi and in answer to a question raised by Ms Boumedienne, the delegation was told that women's rights and duties were clearly defined and governed by Sharia law. It was to this law that those wishing to understand the position of women in Islamic society, should turn for guidance.

The delegation also held a meeting with Dr. Fourkhanda Hassan Secretary General of the National Council for Women. During this meeting the delegation learnt that the association' top priority was taking measures to favour the financial independence for women. The Association, which is presided over by Ms Mubarak, had a right to look at legislation concerning women and could formulate proposals, which were often followed up by Parliament. The Association had taken part in the UN organised meetings on women held in Nairobi and Beijing and Egypt was a signatory of the Nairobi agreement. The delegation was informed that the Association participated in six UN financed projects aimed at women and the USA had financed the setting up of an information centre for women.

FdR 455091 4 PE 309.590 Whilst advances were being made to favour women's education and actions were being taken to combat female sexual mutilation, political representation remained very small. 16 political parties allowed women candidates and 35% of candidates were women, but despite this the number of women members elected was insignificant. The status of women, it was pointed out was not a religious problem but a social one. Over the past year women had gained the right to instigate divorce proceedings.

The discussions the delegation held with representatives of Egyptian NGOs were largely dominated by the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, many of the Egyptian participants underlining their dislike for the lack of effective European action. On the subject, the Chair of the delegation pointed out that the European parliament had clearly stated the need for the creation of a viable Palestinian State and the respect of international law.

The fear that the necessity to privatise and restructure the Egyptian economy in order to comply with the needs of the WTO and the Association Agreement would create massive unemployment was clearly expressed. These measures, it was pointed out would be in favour of the rich nations but to the detriment of the poor. The Egyptian representatives expressed the view that the statements contained in article 2 of the association Agreements were of little significance since the EU was prepared to sign agreements with regimes which manifestly ignored democracy and human rights. In the debate that followed Mr S. Nair contrasted this clause, which as a contractual clause in a commercial agreement which could be invoked by the EU at any time in cases where it was deemed necessary, and would have a suspensive effect and the conditions laid down in accession agreements, which were mandatory. Mr Martin pointed out that article 2 was there to protect Egyptians as much as it obliged the EU to ensure its respect. In winding up the debate Mr Dary, Chair of the delegation explained that Europe had been created out of the ashes of war because there was an overwhelming desire for peace. It had been built not only on political will but also on concrete economics and mutual benefit. Europe he explained, saw the Association agreements with partner countries as the vector of wealth and freedom. They would allow the partner countries to develop into modern societies where the respect for human rights is essential, for its is the basis of the economic machine.

V. Religious freedom

The delegation paid a courtesy visit to His Holiness Pope SHENOUDA III of Alexandria, Patriarch of the Sea of ST Mark. The represent 6% of the population of Egypt: Total population: 69.500.000, Coptic population 4.170.000.

In the prevailing climate the Pope did not wish to expand on the difficulties encountered by the Egyptian Coptic population. He admitted that there had been attacks on Copts, but considered that some of these attacks may have been caused by other causes than differences in religion. Where Copts had been attacked the events were reported to the police and government action was taken. The delegation was told that the Coptic religion was expanding in Egypt and that new churches were being built on the sites of the places

FdR 455091 5 PE 309.590 the holy family had visited during their flight into Egypt. This positive view contrasted somewhat with the views expressed by Coptic members of civil society where some members were informed that the Coptic minority suffered from the heavy hand of the government and that, unlike Islam, Christians had to obtain government permission to build churches. On average no more than 3 churches a year could be built whereas there was no limit to the number of mosques. Furthermore, whilst conversion to Islam was approved, conversion from Islam to another religion was governed by Sharia law and punished by the death penalty.

VI. Conclusions:

The working group of the delegation

Noted that it was clearly necessary to intensify relations between the EP and Egypt particularly in the field of economic reform, and economic assistance. This was particularly important in view of the recent events and the effects they were already having on the Egyptian tourist industry.

Noted that whilst the EU - Egypt Association Agreement was generally perceived by the executive and members of the liberal opposition as positive, civil society and Egyptian industry were wary of its potential to aggravate the already high unemployment levels and severely harm fledgling Egyptian industries. Furthermore the Egyptian authorities and parliamentarians underlined the need to obtain a revision of the agreement in so far as concerned access to the European market for horticultural and agricultural produce.

Agreed with their Egyptian counterparts that repeated efforts should be made by all, to avoid any confusion of terrorism and Islam. It would be disastrous for Muslim public opinion to perceive the fight against terrorism as a war against Islam.

Agreed with their Egyptian counterparts that in the fight against terrorism it was necessary to clearly define what was meant by terrorism. It was generally agreed that a clear distinction should be drawn between terrorism and violent acts of resistance. In this context, the working group welcomed the proposal by President Mubarak to call for an international conference on terrorism.

Agreed that the fight against terrorism required not only that clear military, financial and other measures be taken but that the root causes of dissatisfaction and social exclusion, be addressed. Economic development was identified as a key arm in the fight. Noted that policies that appeared unjust and anti-Arab were perceived by Egyptian public opinion as justifications for terrorist acts. The frustration that had been engendered by the never-ending Israeli-Palestinian con flict and the lack of impartiality in the American approach to the problem. This frustration had been aggravated by the continuation of US sanctions against Iraq.

FdR 455091 6 PE 309.590 PARLEMENT EUROPEEN

DELEGATION POUR LES RELATIONS AVEC LES PAYS DU MASHREK ET LES ETATS DU GOLFE

Rencontre interparlementaire Parlement européen - Égypte

7-11 octobre 2001

Programme

Dimanche, 7 octobre

Arrivées individuelles des membres de la délégation au Caire et transfert à

Hotel Marriott Saraya El Gezira St., Zamalek, Cairo Tel + 20.2.340.88.88 / Fax + 20.2.340.66.67

Lundi, 8 octobre

08.00 Petit déjeuner de travail avec les Ambassadeurs de l'UE et la Commission européenne (confirmé) Lieu: Hôtel Marriott

09.30 Rencontre avec le Vice Premier Ministre & Ministre de l'Agriculture et Secrétaire Général du Parti National Démocratique NDP-National Democratic Party, M. Youssef Wally

10.45 Rencontre avec le Président du Conseil Shoura, M. Moustafa Kamal Helmy et avec les Membres de la Commission des affaires étrangères et avec les membres de la Commission Économique du Conseil Shura

12.30 Rencontre avec le Président de l'Assemblée du Peuple, M. Ahmed Fathy Sorour et avec les Membres de la Commission des affaires étrangères et avec les membres de la Commission des Relations Économiques de l'Assemblée du Peuple 15.00 Déjeuner offert par l'Assemblée du Peuple Lieu: Cairo Capital Club

FdR 455091 7 PE 309.590 16.30 Rencontre avec ONGs & groupes minoritaires 18.00 Rencontre avec le National Progressive Party

Mardi, 9 octobre

09.00 Rencontre avec le Secretaire général du Conseil National de la femme, Dr. Fourkhanda Hassan

11.00 Réunion avec le Fonds Social pour le Développement

13.00 Visite d'un projet de l'UE

18.00 Rencontre avec Parti Politique El Wafd

20.30 Dîner offert par le Chef de la délégation de la Commission européenne au Caire, M. Ian Boag Lieu: Résidence

Mercredi, 10 octobre

09.00 Visite de courtoisie au Sheikh de Al Azhar, M. Mohamed Sayyed Tantawi

10.00 Visite de courtoisie au Patriarche Copte, Pape Shenouda III

11.00 Rencontre avec le Ministre de l'Économie et Commerce extérieur, M. Youssef

13.00 Rencontre avec le Ministre de l'Intérieur, Général Habib El Adly

20.30 Dîner offert par le Président de la délégation du PE, M. Michel Dary Lieu: Hôtel Marriott

Jeudi, 11 octobre

05.30 Transfert de l'hôtel à l'aéroport

07.30 Départ la délégation pour l’Europe

FdR 455091 8 PE 309.590 EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT

DELEGATION FOR RELATIONS WITH THE MASHREQ COUNTRIES AND THE GULF STATES

Interparliamentary Meeting EP - Egypt - 8 to 10 October 2001 -

Participants List

EP Members

Political Name Country Group

Mr Michel DARY, Chairman PSE France Ms Alima BOUMEDIENNE-THIERY V/ALE France Mr Sami NAIR PSE France Mr Hugues MARTIN PPE France Mr Vitaliano GEMELLI PPE Italy

PPE-DE - Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) and European Democrats PSE - Group of the Party of European Socialists V/ALE - Group of the Greens/European Free Alliance

Secretariat, Interparliamentary Delegations

Mr Christian CHOPIN Principal Administrator Mr Francisco CABRAL Administrative Assistant

Interpreters

Mr Laurent BERNHARD French booth, team leader Ms MONTERESI Italian booth Ms Melpomeni KONSTATINIDI booth

FdR 455091 9 PE 309.590 Cabinet Ministers

Prime Minister - Dr. Atef Muhammad Muhammad Ebeid Deputy Premier and Minister of Agriculture and Land Reclamation- Dr. Youssef Amin Wali Minister of Defence and Military Production- Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi Minister of Information - Muhammed Safwat El Sherif Minister of Foreign Affairs - Ahmed Maher El Sayed Minister of Justice - Counseller Farouk Seif El Nasr Minister of Culture - Farouk Abdel Aziz Hosni Minister of Education - Dr. Hussein Kamel Bahaa Eddine Minister of Economy and Foreign Trade - Dr. Youssef Boutros Ghali Minister of State for the People's Assembly and the Shura Council Affairs - Kamal Muhammed Al Shazli Minister of Tourism - Dr. Muhammed Mamdouh Ahmad Al Beltagi Minister of State for Administrative Development - Dr. Muhammed Zaki Abu Amer Minister of Housing, Utilities & Urban Communities - Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Sulieman Minister of Manpower and Immigration - Ahmad Ahmad El Amawi Minister of Waqfs (Endowments)- Dr. Mahmoud Hamdy Zaqzouk Minister of Health and Population - Dr. Ismail Awad-Allah Sallam Minister of Higher Education and the State for Scientific Research - Dr. Mufid Shihab Minister of Irrigation and Water Resources - Dr. Mahmoud Abou Zeid Minister of State for the Environment Affairs - Dr. Nadia Makram Ebied Minister of Interior - General Habib Ibrahim El Adly Minister of local development - Mustafa Muhammad Abdel-Qader Minister of Social Affairs and Insurance - Dr. Amina Hmza Muhammad El-Guindi Minister of Industry - Dr. Mustafa Muhammad Osman El-Rifa'i Minister of Electricity and Energy- Dr. Ali Fahmy Ibrahim El-Sa'idi State Minister for Military Production- Dr. Sayed Abdou Moustafa Mesh'al Minister of Transport - Dr. Ibrahim Mohammed Motwali el-Demeri Minister of Youth - DR. Ali El-Din El-Desuqi Hilal Minster of Supply - Dr. Hassan Ali Ali Kheder Minister of Planning and International cooperation - Dr. Ahmed Mahrous el-Darch Minister of Public Enterprise Sector - Dr. Mokhtar Abd El-Moneim Khattab Minister of Finance - Dr. Muhammad Medhat Abd El-Atti Hassanein State Mnister for Communication and Information - Dr. Ahmed Muhammad Nazif

FdR 455091 10 PE 309.590 Minister of Petroleum - Engineer Amin Sameh Samir Fahmi

Speaker of the People's Assembly - Dr. Ahmad Fathi Sorour Speaker of the Shura Council - Dr. Moustafa Kamal Helmi

FdR 455091 11 PE 309.590