BIOGRAPHICAL SUMMARY: Albert Nawahi Like, 84, retired schoolteacher

"The who~e hospita~ Wa? for the Zeprosy patients. But here was a group of youngsters. They didn't want to have them go without a schoo~. So they estab~ished a schooZ to take care of these chi~dren. At that time, they had close to about twenty chi~dren. A~~ right, so I went down there and organized the curriculum, which was a simple program-­ reading, writing, and arithmetic, and a Zittle history, and other things."

Albert Like, Hawaiian, was born in Oahu's Chinatown district on April 19, 1900. His father was the editor of the Ke Aloha 'Aina, a Hawaiian­ language newspaper. When Albert was eight years old, the family bought a home on North School Street in Kalihi. In 1912, they rented out their Kalihi home and returned to Chinatown. Albert attended St. Louis School and graduated in 1924. He then moved back to the Kalihi home and has lived there ever since. Albert attended the University of Hawaii between 1924 and 1927, studying to be a schoolteacher. In 1927, he received his first teaching assign­ ment at Mt. Happy School, a school for Hansen's disease patients located within the Hansen's disease hospital in Kalihi Kai. He taught there for fifteen years. In 1942, he began teaching at Central Intermediate School. He retired in 1965, ending a thirty-eight year teaching career. A devout Mormon, Albert works regularly at the Kalihi Ward, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' Genealogical Library, conducting genealogical research and assisting interested individuals.

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Tape No. 11-25-1-84 ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW with Albert Nawahi Like (AL) January 12, 1984 Kalihi, Oahu BY: Warren Nishimoto (WN)

WN: This is an interview with Mr. Albert Like at the Latter Day Saints' Genealogical Library in Kalihi on January 12, 1984. Okay, Mr. Like, can you tell me, first of all, when you were born and where you were born? AL: I was born on April 19, 1900 in Honolulu just across the old railroad station [near Aala Park]. My father was the editor of a Hawaiian newspaper and that's where the printshop was. We lived above, upstairs, because it was a tenement area. And downstairs was the printshop. Then, as I grew up in that neighborhood, I began to recall, that time, there were no automobiles or anything. The means of transportation were by what we called "hacks." There was a horse, and a cab, and a driver. And that was our means of transportation going to and from. ~1eantime, they had a transit that went along and ended up at Kapiolani Park. And that time, on McCully Street there, on both sides of the track, there was an open swamp or what we called a duck pond. Then, at the end of the transit line where the present Kuhio Park is, where you turn up into Kapahulu, used to be an island there. They call 'em McKee Island. WN: How do you spell that? AL: I think its rvt-A-C-K-Y. No, I think M-C-K-E-E, I think. Anyway, that could be looked up in the old directory. There was no zoo, and the Kapiolani Park was the center of all the activities. They had horse races there, and they had--what you call--their soccer games, and all the activities was there in that Kapiolani Park. It was a race track. Well, I grew up right there in Chinatown, right in that Aala Park district. And right next to us was silent movies. We used to go in there and look at the silent movie. Then, as I grew up, St. Louis school was not too far away from [where] we were, because it was just at River Street. Prior to that, I went to the Palama Settlement kindergarten. But Palama Settlement was at the corner of Liliha 687

and Dillingham Boulevard. That's when I remembered my first school that I attended. At that time, it was called kindergarten. Then from then, I went out to have my early first grades at St. Louis as I grew up. WN: What was the name of your father's newspaper? AL: Was Ke Aloha 'Aina. WN: Do you know how big a readership he had? AL: Oh, he had quite a number. Oh, I think, he had better than a thousand. The kids, they went and sell the papers on the streets. And at the same time, there were also subscriptions from [neighbor] islands. WN: It was in Hawaiian language? AL: All in Hawaiian language, you see. And the paper's still at the Archives there and at the Bishop Museum--copies of those early editions. WN: What is your father's background? AL: Well, I don't know too much about his background. But, you see, my father was hanaied to Joseph Nauhi. And Joseph Nauhi was the activist during the time of Queen Lili'uokalani. So, this Joseph Nauhi started this paper to support the love for the native peoples. That's why they say Ke Aloha 'Aina--A Love for the Land. See, that's the translation of the paper. So, he was the editor for the newspaper until 1912. He died in 1912. WN: Your father? AL: Yeah. But in 1908, '09, we moved from the newspaper--across the railroad station--we moved up to where the Palama Fire Station is. There's a lane they call the Alapai Lane. WN: Why did you move there? AL: Well, he found a place that, probably, he liked. It was a home. WN: Did he still have the newspaper? AL: The newspaper? Yeah. The newspaper printshop was still there, but the family moved over to this place. While there, he bought this place here at Kalihi. So, in 1909, we moved from Palama to Kalihi and settled there. At that time, Kalihi was an open field for taro patch. Just below where School Street is, there was a vegetable farm there. To go to the other side, we had to go across to this vegetable farm to go over into the other street to get us to go down below. But in the meantime, this whole area in 1909 was 688

one big lot. WN: What area is this? On the corner of School and Kalihi Streets? AL: Yeah. Around that, Kalihi, yeah. This whole street from Kalihi Street right down to King Street was just one street. There was no side street all the way down. It was one. So, School Street ended right up at Kalihi Street. And so, our lot was Ewa of Kalihi Street. On the left, in this open space here, there was a home. That was by Frank Tester. No, Isaac Tester were the people who lived on this. WN: What's over there now? AL: This was that whole piece. So, when they decided to extend School Street, then the county or the state [territory] came in and took over this portion here and cut the road. And so, part of this estate was on the other side of the road, and part of the estate was on our side. So, School Street was cut through. I just don't know how early that was. But then, the means of transportation WN: Excuse me. Your home \'las on the corner of Kal ihi and ••• AL: No, no. We were way inside. WN: Oh, inside? AL: Yeah. See, at the corner there was the Bishop Estate lot that they leased out. And right between our portion and this portion was a large pond. This is the water that went down into the dairy. This was a big pond here at the time we moved in. Our outlet was, we went along the •••• This part here was the property. Then, we had to go around, find a pathway to go out to Kalihi Street to get transportation to go down to King Street. WN: So, you were on the Ewa mauka side? AL: We were Ewa of Kalihi Street at the time. And then, when the road was cut through, then we became Ewa mauka of School Street, you see? WN: I see. So, you're across the street from the Kam Shopping Center AL: Yeah. We're across from the ... WN: is now? AL: Yeah, now. So, our means of transportation, the transit, was way down at King Street. The means of getting down to King Street, we had what they call a "coach." Stagecoach. We used to pay twenty-five cents fare to go down and catch the transit to go to town or go to Waikiki. 689

WN: This is horse drawn? AL: Yeah, horse drawn. There were no cars that time. No automobiles, horse drawn. Where did I see a picture of that? I think if you went to the Kenny's ••.• What you call? WN: Kenny's Burger House? AL: Yeah, Kenny's Burger House. If you went in there, there's a big picture on a panel. On that panel you'll see the Kalihi coach where we used to ride down to the transit to catch the transit to go to town. So, at that time, this is Kalihi Street. On the Waikiki makai of Kalihi Street was Kamehameha School. The dairy was here. As you went down, the museum was next. I mean, not the museum. The boys• dormitory--Kamehameha dormitory--was there. And then, before you got to King and Kalihi Street was the boys• preparatory school. Then, makai of King Street and Kalihi Street was the girls' dormitory. So, the whole Kamehameha School was down here, not up on the hill •.• WN: You're talking about near Kapalama School makai? AL: Yeah. See, this is now Kapalama School. Well, where Kapalama School, is, that once used to be a dairy. Then, below Kapalama School where the Bishop Museum is was the Kamehameha School. All those buildings were boys• dormitory. And every Sunday the boys would put on a review then in their military uniform. Today, the Kamehameha boys don't have a military. Then, below that, was the preparatory school. And then, across the street of King Street was the Kamehameha girls' dormitory. Then, where the field is now, that used to be the Kamehameha Field. Many of the sports inter-school competition was held at the Kam Field. They used to have a racetrack there. WN: This is still on the corner where Kapalama School is? AL: No, no, no. The field. The sports field is now where the present field is. WN: Oh, okay. AL: You know, as you come down, there's a big open field there? Below School Street as you're coming toward the library here. You see, as you go up toward Wilson Tunnel, on your left you'll see a big open field. They used to call it the Kamehameha Field--Kam Field. That's where they used to have their football, their racetrack. Of course, they had another one at Punahou. And then, they used to hold their soccer. That's where the schools used to have their field day activities--this big field. Then, along that time, where the shopping center is WN: Kam Shopping Center? AL: Kam Shopping. Used to be an open kiawe field--pastures, you see. 690

Then, on the Ewa mauka side was a big taro patch. Then, after that, they did away with the taro patch. WN: Do you know about when that was? AL: That taro patch •••• I think just about 1920, I think. Because I just cannot remember. WN: Who owned the taro patch? AL: I don't know who was ••.• But then after that, it became an open pasture where honohono grass grew up. Then, the Kamehameha School dairy people would go there and get their grass to feed their cows. WN: This taro patch was near your house? AL: Yeah. It just came right up to our boundary, you see. Then, after that patch was a big open space there. Then came that cutting out of School Street. Yeah, School Street was the cut. WN: Extending School Street Ewa [from Kalihi Street]? AL: Yeah, going Ewa to Middle Street, passing Gulick. Then, cutting down to Middle Street. WN: That was in the '20s also? AL: Yes. That was, I think, it was the late '20s when they cut it. Then, that pasture land was still a pasture land until 1941 when the World War came. They had already cut School Street through. I don't know whether the buses went through at that time. But 1941, when the war came on, that whole area mauka of our property became a military reservation. That's where the headquarters group came to train their people in heavy equipments. So, they built lot of barracks up there. The war was on. As the war was on, we had all this training going on. In the meantime, the shopping center was not developed yet, see. WN: Was that Bishop Estate land also? AL: Yeah, they were all Bishop Estate land. It wasn't developed yet. I mean, changed into a shopping center. In the meantime, Kamehameha School Dairy moved way out to Hawaii Kai now. Kuliouou and Hahaione. Then, the state took over. I don't know how soon after then Kapalama School was established. But then came this military reservation there. Things began to improve there. Land began to become divided. Then, improvements set in. The transit began to come in. The war was over. So, they had no use for that whole area as a military reservation. So, the barracks was converted to a low housing area. WN: I notice there's a big barn-like building there now. 691

AL: Way up at the . • • WN: You know, next to Kapalama School? You know, there's a big ••. AL: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, those were quonset huts. That was built up during the time of the Second World War. Because during the Second World War, they had lot of these quonset huts that were built up. Then, this pasture land now became a military reservation. After it [was] a military reservation, then it was, I think, returned to the owner. I just do not know who the owner was. But then, all these shacks became a rental unit. Then, way above School Street, I mean up on the hillside, was the piggery. That's where they had piggeries up there. WN: Where the housing is now? Kal ihi Valley Housing? AL: Yeah, the Kalihi Housing and all that area was all piggery up there. WN: This is behind your house? AL: No, no, no. This is way up. You know where Kam IV Road is? As you go up, below those hillside where the old piggeries were. Then, as time went on, these shacks no longer became rental units. They began to tear it down. Then came these subdivisions. Sakuma was one of the early owners of the place. It became Sakuma Estate. The Horitas was just living at the end of Gulick. At the end, you know, Gulick. And they had a home there. So, Horita was first there. Then, the Sakumas began to subdivide and they began to sell this in lots. The Horitas had a lot right up there going toward Kalihi Street. At the time Likelike [Highway] was not made at this time. But the Kalihi Street used to run around in the bend there. There was lot of homes. Then, the Horitas began to improve this portion of land and started their first little business there by selling those lots. Then they began going into buying other lots and built on other lots. And gradually they came to what today is. Herbert Horita is one of the top developers of the islands. That's how they started from early. And that's where they lived. WN: Where exactly did they start? AL: They started right in Kalihi. They lived right at the corner. The father---they were carpenters. WN: They lived on the corner of •• AL: Now, just at the end of Gulick Avenue. WN: Gulick and School? AL: Yeah. Well, it's School, but you got to go beyond. Way mauka of School. That's where they lived first. And then, they started 692

this. In the meantime, Herbert [Horita] was going to school at Roosevelt High. And then, they had this idea of developing. So, they bought, they built, they sold. They bought, they built, and they sold. And then, that's how they gradually began to get into bigger projects and bigger projects. Herbert became quite knowledgeable about a lot of things that he went into bigger ventures. Today, he's about the top developer in the islands. WN: The place that your house was, who owned the land there? AL: That land was bought by my father. It was about close to a half an acre. He bought it for about $250 at the time. Well, it was taro patch land at the time. So, we stayed there and we're s t i 11 l i vi ng there till today. Then came the developing of Kalihi. More residents came in. Then, the school was built. WN: Which school? AL: That Kapalama came up first. Then, mauka came up--the [Kamehameha] Shopping Center. WN: This is in the late '50s? AL: Yeah, was the late. Then, about the '60s, that's when they opened up the tunnel and they cut this Likelike Highway coming down here. That's where the improvements of Kalihi came about. WN: What do you remember, as you were a young boy, what were the kind of things you did living in that area? AL: Oh, well, when we were growing up in this area, there were no outside any kind of activity but group activities. We used to play tops, marbles, and dodge balls, baseball, hiking. We used to hike up into the valley there, go swimming in those pools. Those were the activities. Many of the young people there never had any activities because there was no radio. There was no automobiles. Horses, but we didn't have any horses. That's more of a group activities. Boys and girls used to get involved in many of these activities. Going up hiking. And then, after· swinvning, they come back. They make leis, come home, walk. Like marbles, betting, they used to put a ring then put the marbles in. The ones who get the most marbles out. And then, top. They used to play tops. Some ones would sharpen up their points. And then, you split up the other person's top. Then, they had what they call "peowee," where they had a little stick and a little puck. And then, you see how far you can hit this. Then, we have dodge balls. Sometimes, the dodge balls, oh, was rubber balls. But sometimes, the dodge balls are little solid, and you really have to dodge to not get hurt. Then, swimming. WN: Where did you go swimming? AL: Well, that's up at the pool there. As you go up to Wilson Tunnel, 693

there's two little big pools on the right side which is now water reserve. That's where the boys and girls would go swimming. They used to hike. l'i\ost of the time, we did hiking. WN: I'm wondering, where did Kalihi Street end in those days? AL: Well, Kalihi Street, let me see. Yeah. Kalihi Street ended where the Catholic orphanage is. Because we used to go. We used to cross streams to go across to these different pools. WN: So, because there was no Likelike Highway, you walked along Kalihi Street? AL: Yeah. You see, Kalihi Street is still there. And then, the terminal is way at the Kalihi orphanage home. That's where it ended. Those days, the boys didn't have long trousers. They have shorts. I remember I didn't wear my first long trousers till I was about eighteen. And even at sixteen and seventeen, everybody was playing ball. Everybody was playing marbles and tops. Those were the activities of the time. They really had good time. WN: Ethnically, what was the ethnic composition? AL: Well, at Kalihi, the ethnic group here was Hawaiian, Portuguese, Chinese, and some Japanese. But the dominant ethnic here at that time were Hawaiians--part-Hawaiians, you see. But they all got together and they learned how to live together. The old mama-san and the papa-san, they lived in the community where the Hawaiians were. So, natural~ they began to understand them by, oh, "You no sabe?" like that. That's when your English began to become pidgin rngfish. The Japanese in the community at that time were pig raisers. And then, the Chinese at the time were peddlers. They didn't have any store, but they went peddling their mea'ono-pua'a and their bananas on sticks. Some of them, they had long stick and they had their two sides where they carry their loads along. They were peddlers at the time. WN: So, mea'ono-pua'a and what else did they sell? AL: Oh, they had other items that they get. Bananas, you see. And, of course, vegetables, they did the same thing. Then, the Hawaiians, why, they were more or less the waterfront workers at the time, because there were ships then. And then, some of them did farming-­ taro farming. They did their farming. But the children at the time there who went to school, they didn't have university or college [graduate] teachers to teach 'em. It was just the ordinary teacher who finished Normal School. Some of them graduated eighth grade. That was all. Some of them, the tenth grade. As soon you were through the tenth grade, you went out to teach. And of course, their curriculum at the time was very similar. There was the three •••• What you call? Reading, writing, arithmetic. And then they had their songs. They used to do lot of singing. 694

WN: This is in what school? AL: The terri tory school at the time. See, they had their curriculum. They had their courses. They didn't have social studies, all these. The children grew up in this very fundamental courses, studies. So, they were able to read, and write, and sing. The teachers at the time were Chinese and Hawaiians. Because at the time, the Japanese girls never went out. Their place was at home. When I went to University [of Hawaii] in 1924, very, very few girls were there because the parents felt that their place was at home, not a career. Until things began to change. So, we didn't have very many Japanese teachers at the time. They were mostly Chinese, part-Hawaiians, and Hawaiians. Of course, they went to Normal School, and Normal School was just a high school. It was not till about 1930 when they extended [the requirements] from high school to two years college. WN: For Normal School? AL: Yeah, for Normal. And then, they called it Teacher's College. Then, after that, they raised it from two years to four years. Then, as time went along, in order to be certified, you have to take five years. So, you have to have a professional certificate at the time to teach. Today you have to have five years certificate to teach. WN: You said your father died in 1912? AL: Yeah. My father WN: Who raised you? AL: My mother raised us, took care of us. And then, my mother got married again to my stepfather who was a Chinese. He took care of us until he • • . WN: What kind of work was your stepfather doing?

AL: ~ly stepfather was a butcher at the Kekaul ike Market there. I just don't know whether he was with C.Q. Yee Hop or another. But that's what he was until he retired, and then he stayed with us. Now, a very interesting thing about this stepfather of mine was. • • . Then, I moved back to Kal i hi here. My mother stayed back in town, because my brother was working at Pearl Harbor. So I moved back, and he [AL's stepfather] moved back with me. Of course, he was retired. Well, like all Chinese, very restless. They can't just sit around. So, one day, I happened to meet some of my people, the neighbors down this section. They said, "We saw your stepfather selling bananas and papayas." I said, "Oh, fine. If he's happy, it's okay." Well, he had two dollars when he started. He went selling papayas and 695

bananas. He earned a little something. Then came this big 1941 World War. Then they had these military reservations. The military fence came right down to our fence. So, he had an idea if he build a lean-to and had a little store, he might provide some snacks for these here. So, he built a little lean-to, and he bought crackers and sardines, and other things like that. He built up his little business. Then he bought seeds. All the neighborhood kids would come down. Well, during the night, this was blackout. It's supposed to be a blackout. But like all Chinese--he was an old man--he never bothered about blacking out his windows or anything. And so, his store was a twenty-four-hour store. So, he grew up in his business. WN: Did they make him turn off the lights? AL: Well, the wardens weren't around, see? Because the warden has to be around, because the war was still on. One night, he was quite sick. So, he called me. I built a studio out for him because he likes to live by himself. So, I built a studio out for him and he was there. But he was very sick that night and he came by my window and called me that he was sick. So, I called my nephew. I say, "Ey, Grandpa is pretty sick." He can't breathe. So we took him to Kuakini Hospital. When we got to Kuakini Hospital they admitted him. Then, the one at the desk there said to me, "Well, to keep your granddad [AL's stepfather] here you'll have to put down a deposit of $100." I says, "I '11 be there next morning to take care of that." The next day, my nephew said to me, "We better go and see Grandpa's box, see if he has any money." And 1 o and behold, he had canceled checks; he had coins. It came out to about little more than $495. So, we took all that. We set aside the deposit. He got well, I went back. We brought him home. He said to me, "Well, how much was the hospital?" I told him how much the hospital was and that was all paid. It was paid from the money that we found and we put away. Then he said, "Well, how much you put?" I said, "Oh, I put $100. Forget it." He said, "Oh, no, no, no. No trouble." We went into his little studio. He pulled out his Chinese book. They have their own reading book. And there stacked in between those pages were all his tens and five dollars. We got the silver dollars, but we didn't get these other money, see? He brought it out. And then, I says, "No, no, no." He says, "That's okay." Then he told me--like all Chinese--"Ah, this too much money. If I go Palama Settlement [for medical treatment], I no pay money." 696

I says, 11 Well, no can help ... Anyway, before he died, he had better than $10,000 out of the two dollars. WN: When did he die? AL: He died in 1960. Then, he had leftover groceries. So, we took all his leftover groceries, we sold it all. And then, we demolished that little lean-to. And on the floor board, you know, there's all those cracks? My grandchildren, they had a great day. Because there, they were finding nickels, they were finding fifty cents, they were finding quarters. Because they all fell through. That's the life we had in Kalihi with my stepfather. WN: Did you he.l p at all in that 1 ean-to? AL: In that investment? No, no, no. It was his. WN: Did you help with the store or anything like that? AL: No, no, no. He did it himself. The kids used to come there all hours of the day to buy crackseeds and candy. He had his own. Until now, not very long ago, I met a man. He said to me, 11 1 think you don't remember me ... I says, .. No ...

He says, .. I used to be in the neighborhood. I used to go over to the old man •s store and buy things. Now and then, we scoop 1 i ttl e candy here, little seed there ... (Chuckles) So, that's when Kalihi began to grow and develop. Then, they began to build a shopping center there. And then, the upper part began to develop and they began to build all those homes up on the hills. And today, Kalihi is quite a big place. WN: Were there other stores in that area? AL: Oh, yeah. They had neighborhood stores. They had one at the corner of School and Gulick. There was few down below Gulick Avenue. The stores were on Gulick but not on Kalihi, you see? And there were no stores on School Street until you got down to Houghtailing. WN: They were mostly Chinese-run stores? AL: Yeah, yeah. They all Chinese. Those days, were all Chinese. Today, all the stores are now run by the Koreans. All the stores up here. The Koreans have bought out all the little stores over here. They are running the stores. Then little by little, the Filipinos began to move into the area. 697

WN: Do you know about when that was? AL: Oh, wait, let's see. About 1945 we had very, very few Filipinos here. I think they began to move about '60. About '55 to '60, then they began to move in little by little. And today, why, this whole Kalilli area, all resident by the Filipinos. All the other people, very few of them--Japanese and Chinese people--in this Kalihi area now. That is now the population of Kalihi now--it's Filipino. Then, 1950-something, they built this Kuhio [Park] Terrace. And when they built this Kuhio [Park] Terrace, then we had the low-income population move in. Then we began to have problems. Then they did away with the piggeries up there. Then they built up the low-income home up at the . • • WN: Kal i hi Valley Housing? AL: •.. Kalihi Valley Housing. So, you have two. The one at the Kuhio, and one up there. That's where all our problems are today. Yeah, this low-income people. WN: Your property, you still have that property? AL: Oh, yeah. This is our own property. See, at that time, land property was way down. But as improvement came in, came in, came in, today the assessment last year was 60 percent of the market value. Today, it's 100 percent of the market value. Now, my place is just--we said 250. The front place we built. It was built in 1970. It was at $45,000 when we--it's a duplex, you see? And today, the value of just that place there is $125 they have to pay. Just their estate value. And so, property value has gone pretty high. EtJO OF SIDE ONE

SlOE TWO WN: I guess with all the improvements around Kalihi like the Wilson Tunnel and the Kam Shopping Center, I guess your property values went up? AL: Yeah, that's what I mean. The value has gone up. Because now, they are on a market value, see? So, the duplex which we bought, the property and the !lome is up to $125,000. With the exemption we still have to pay for the difference. And my place, our tax is $80,000. So, just those five little homes around there is close to half a million. Just that two half an acres. So, you could see valuation in property value has gone up. WN: I guess when they continued School Street or when they made School Street continue Ewa, the value went up? AL: Oh, yes. From then on, the value---well, it didn't went up too much 698

when School Street went through. Then when the transit went through, it wasn't too bad. But when they built that Kam Shopping Center, that's when the property value around went up. Because it's an improvement in the area, see? WN: That's Bishop Estate, yeah? AL: Yeah, that was. That area there is all lease land to the Bishop. WN: When you were growing up, you said you had group activities like. Did anybody organize it, by the way? AL: No, no. It's just like a group of kids got together and they start. WN: rlow about things like movies? AL: No, there were no movies. You have to go down to the city there, down to town, like Hotel Street there. They had movies there. Well, it was just ten cents or fifteen cents to go and see a film. It was all silent pictures. On Hotel between Smith and Nuuanu, there used to be an open-air theater there. They had the trees growing and there was an open-air theater there. We used to go and see those old pictures--cowboy pictures. But we seldom .... 8ut when I was staying down where we were down across the railroad station, the theater was just below us. Then we had lot of saimin eating place. You could go eat a whole bowl of stew rice for fifteen cents. Now, prior to 1912, around there, the only crime they had down in Chinatown was opium smoking and their gambling. Those were the two. WN: Do you remember seeing people smoking opium? AL: Oh, yeah, yeah. Because we lived in the tenement there, see? We lived at the corner of Maunakea and Pauahi. That building is all torn down. Yesterday we went riding. We have some malihinis from the Mainland, and I showed them where I grew up. WN: Okay, between 1900 and 1912, you lived next to the railroad station? AL: Yeah, up till 1908, you see. Then we came down, we came home. WN: To Kalihi? AL: Yeah. And then, my mother went down to Maunakea Street because my brother was just growing up at the time. So, we rented this home. We needed the money, so we rented the home. WN: The Kalihi home? And you folks went to live at Maunakea and Pauahi? AL: To Maunakea and Pauahi. That's when we moved over. And I grew up there until 19 •••• Then I went to school. 699

WN: Nineteen twenty-four, then? AL: Because St. Louis was right below, you see? So, I stayed there, went to school. Just walking distance, you see.

WN: So, when you were 1 iving in Chinatown, on ~1aunakea and Pauahi, between 1912 and 1924, ethnically what was it basically? AL: Well, ethnically, it was all Chinese down there. Chinese and Hawaiians. Because the Hawaiians were living in all those tenement blocks. Because all that area there, from mauka of Beretania Street, that was all tenements down there. They had many little lanes, little alleys going in, until the war. Then after that, they tore that place down. Then, all that part running up to King and Beretania now, where that junction, those were all tenements. Chinese were all living there. They had their manapua stores, they had their tailor shops, all around that area. Then, the market, of course, the market was still the same. That Kekaulike. WN: I'm curious too, after your father died, what became of that Hawaiian newspaper? AL: No, then they had other editors. Until 1920, I think, then it was dissolved. Then, they only had one Hawaiian newspaper. That's Ka'oko'a. And then, it folded up in 1927, '28. Then there were no Hawaiian newspapers. Then, everybody began to be knowledgeable in English. The Hawaiian language was discontinued altogether in all the schools and everything. They felt that the English language was more helpful to the people. So, as a result, the schools and the other institutions began to emphasize on English. But in the meantime, the early schools were teaching their kids [English]. The early schools---the reason why they wanted [students] to learn the language was they wanted to read the Bible, see? That was the thing that the missionaries came down here. Then, the other ethnic groups began to come in. Soon, this ethnic groups began to introduce their Western and the Asian culture. And the Hawaiian culture was submerged. It went under. So, the Western and the Asian culture began to dominate the culture of the islands. And so, now they're having a renaissance. They're trying to revive all the earlier Hawaiian culture now by having these Hawaiiana classes in school and whatnot. The sad thing about it is, many of the kids don't know about their own Hawaiian history. Like the other day, my sister-in-law gave her grandson this twenty-five years [i.e., twenty-five year.s since Hawaii became a state] T-shirts. He put it on. He says, 11 Why the twenty-five?.. And the grandma tried to explain. Well, nobody talked to him about that constitution, you see? That's one of our problems. The emphasis is on world history while our own children don •t know the hi story of their own. Who Captain Cook was or some of the events that had happened today. So, they know more about world history, and they know about U.S. history. But when they 700

come to their own local history which contains lot of interesting events, they don•t know. So, like now, they have this twenty-five jubilee thing, many of the kids were not born at the time. Especially the present generation. WN: Hopefully, after they read your interview today •.• AL: Oh, well, I don•t (chuckles) know.

WN: •.. they•11 learn little more about Hawaii 1 S history. In Chinatown, too, there was a time during World War I. Do you remember what it was like in Chinatown? AL: Oh, at the time, World War I, the military people were here. They were, I think, the 25th Infantry. Then, they used to come down to Chinatown and the local boys would be there playing their steel guitars entertaining. These folks would come down and mingle with the locals. Then came the time when they began to have the. Was it the eighteenth amendment? The Prohibition era came. WN: In 1917, 1918 [1920-1933]? AL: Around that time, yeah. So, what they were doing, they were bootlegging. They were making their own--we ca 11 it 11 swipe. 11 WN: Who made the swipe? AL: Oh, the people. Then, they were making •okolehao. Well, that was out in the mountains. But the swipe, they could do it right in the horne there. All they do is they get certain ingredients. A 1 i ttl e pineapple, ferment it, and then give it a kick. That•s where these people get •em. Then, they used to issue permits. You can get so much liquor or something like that by permits. And some used to abuse those. They got more than what they wanted. Blackmarket, the whole thing. WN: They sell a lot of this swipe and liquor to the servicemen? AL: Yeah, servicemen. Because they didn•t have anything. They used to have a good time together. The relationship was pretty close. They wouldn•t bust up this guy when you come in, you know, when you see a haole. No. Of course, during that time, there were lot of gambling--Chinese gambling going on. And then, there were also opium smoking that was going on then. All those little dens along Pauahi Street and Maunakea. Then right across, they had the Chinese opera house. That•s where used to have those Chinese shows, operas, used to come and perform there. Where the old Roosevelt Theater used to be. Right at the corner there used to be a liquor store there. Sumida Liquor Store. Then, this Roosevelt Hotel was built about that time or just earlier than that time. WN: You know the opium den, what did a opium den look like? 701

AL: Well, it was just a bunk. You just went on a bunk. You have a little lamp, and then you have a little pipe. They have a little stick or something like that. They put in the opium and they roll it around. And then, they put it over the lamp, and then put it on, and then inhale it. And then, they go into dreamland. They didn't sell any kind of drugs or anything. Then, when they came out of that hallucination, they got lot of pep. They back to the activities again. It was not only men, but women were smoking opium at that time. But of course, there's always a raiding going on, but that doesn't bother these people. WN: There was raids? AL: Oh, yeah, yeah. They had these inspectors, officers, that would •. Then, those days, the grocery stores, they leave their things open. Their orange boxes, apples, right on the sidewalk there. People never bothered, came along. Only now and then, some youngsters came along and scoop one apple or scoop an orange. I remember coming home from school one day. This boy always picked me up, bring me home. So we come along and then he says, "You go way ahead. When I say 'run,' you run." So, he comes along, picks up one apple and one orange. He gets to me, he says, "Run." So we both run. (Chuckles) After school, you see? That's when I was living up here at the Alapai Lane. That's why he used to bring me home. Those were our activities that time. WN: The tenement that you lived in Chinatown, how many tenants were there? AL: Oh, let's see. I think to the front, there were about ten or eleven. And then there's a rear, about the same. Then, you got to go down on the steps, you see. Then, down below are the stores, the merchants. The Chinese, they had a barbershop, they had a tailorshop. WN: How many stories was the .•. AL: No, no. Just upstairs. Only one story [of residences]. They didn't have two stories. Only they built this Roosevelt Hotel now that you have on Pauahi and Maunakea. That was the only big building. All the rest were just two stories. You've seen them in Chinatown now. Just a few of them left. Those are just one story, see? WN: From first grade, you were going to St. Louis?

AL: Mm hmm [yes]. WN: Why did you go to St. Louis? AL: Well, as I said, we were right next door. Because we were staying down here right across the railroad station. And the railroad station, just about a block [from] there was River Street, you see? On Beretania. That's where the old St. Louis was, on Beretania and River Street. 702

WN: So, you went to St. Louis because of the location? AL: Yeah. It was nearby, see. WN: Because that•s a Catholic school. AL: Yeah, Catholic school. I grew up---all my education was in the Catholic school, although I didn•t join the Catholic Church. But they were nice. WN: Most of the people that went to St. Louis were Catholic? AL: The Chinese were. The Chinese boys were all. And also, we have some few Japanese boys. See, they went there and they were converted. Then, they had the English name. They call them 11 Gilbert11 or 11 Joseph. 11 The Japanese boys, they used to give •em English names. You see, prior to the World War II most of the Japanese boys and girls were never known by their English name. They were always by their Japanese name. And then, when the Japanese girls had an English name, they always had it in the middle name. Like you say 11 Kazuko Alice .. and then the surname. Well, after the World War II came, then they began to bring the maiden [English] name to the front. And then became 11 Alice Kazuko Watanabe, .. whatever the name was, you see. WN: So, there were girls? Girls didn•t go to St. Louis, though. AL: No, no, no. I mean, the boys. They became converts of the Catholic Church till now. I said I graduated in 1924. This year would be our sixtieth class reunion. So, we have very few of them. But most of those that are in the class were converts to the Catholic Church when they went to St. Louis, you see. We have a Catholic father there who was my classmate. He•s the pastor of Maui Makawao Church. He was here not very long ago. We always see each other and say hello to each other. WN: If you graduated in 1924, you were about 24 years old when you graduated from high school. Was the reason for that, you had a late start or something? AL: No, no. It wasn•t a late start. You see, after 1912, I had an attack of polio. So, I was hospitalized for a while. For a year and something until I got back my mobility again. That•s what brought me down. I was in St. Louis until my freshman year. March of my freshman year, I was hospitalized, because 1919, there was an epidemic--Spanish flu. That was a big one that they went through. I got under that one. That took me out for quite a while. So, 1921, I came out. I was a freshman at St. Louis when I left school. So when I came back, I was twenty-one at the time, so I went to see my teacher and I told him I wanted to come back to school. He says, .. I don • t know how we can register you because the freshman class is all filled. But I•m going to put you on condition to 703

sophomore ... So I went right back in sophomore. So, I only spent three years and a half in high school, and I finished and graduated. WN: Did all your brothers and sisters go to school ..• AL: Yeah, but no, they went to the public schools. But my sister went to a Catholic school. One of my sisters. Then one of my sisters went to Kamehameha but she didn't finish. She finished up in the public school. WN: Which public school? AL: No, that was in Hilo. WN: Oh, Hilo? AL: Mm hnw. But my younger sister went to Sacred Hearts Convent. That's [near] where the Ritz [Department Store now] is. You know, where the cathedral is? That whole section used to be a convent there. WN: How much was tuition at St. Louis? AL: At the time there, it wasn't too bad. It was about five dollars a year, six dollars. So, I was able to pay mY tuition. Then, when I went to University of Hawaii, the tuition was only sixteen dollars and something. I was able to register in there at the U, 1924. But I had no money. And so, I had to borrow somebody else's book to know my lessons for the day. So when it came to test time, I didn't have any book to review. And lo and behold, at the University, you each had a little box. They called it 11 Cinch notes ... So, I used to get a cinch note. So, came Thanksgiving recess, I had a note from the admissions board. The review board told me I either have to make up for this or I'd be dismissed. Since it was Thanksgiving recess, all the kids were going to have good time. So, I borrowed a book and I got down to business and I passed it. Then, I was able to stay in school. And then, while there, I began to, well, get a little money here, little money there, to carry on till I finished my freshman year. And I was able to pass. But from sophomore year on, I was all right. And that's why, when this offer came in my junior year, I had to make a decision. WN: What offer was this? AL: To either go out to teach or finish my senior year. I had a call from the department to prepare. That's when the Dean of Education, Oean Livesay--Thane Livesay--call me in the office. Said, 11 You want to come back to school in the fall or you want to go to work? .. That's when I said, 11 I 1 d go if they give me a reasonable pay ... So, he says, 11 You don't have to worry about that. You just decide. You want to go or you want to stay? .. 704

So, having a hard time for the last three years and didn't know where the next money was going to come in, this was a chance to get money. So, I took over. When my assignment came in, I got the minimum of the elementary, which is $110. WN: Did you go to University with the expectation that eventually you going to be a teacher? AL: Yeah. Well, that's why I was taking the •••• In those days, only the University teachers went into the intermediate or went into the high schools. All the others went down to the elementary. Because from freshman on, that's when you teach elementary science and math. So, I went in to take that. So, I went out to teach. They make their arrangements for me to come back to finish up my subjects so that I could get my bachelor's. I went out in '27. In '31, I got my bachelor's. WN: Did you have to go to Normal School, too? AL: Yeah, when I got the note, see, then the Dean of Education told me, "You have to drop three subjects here and go to Normal to take their course in education." So, I dropped, and then went up to Normal. And the subject I studied was how to teach math, how to teach the reading, and the elementary subjects. Well, of course, that's not difficult to teach because you're working with children. So, those were the subjects. But today, the youngsters are going through a modern type of work, so the poor kids •• See, you have three groups. One, you have the gifted group. Then you have the intermediate groups. Then you have the slow groups. With the slow groups, you have to give them subjects that's within their ability, too. Simple reading, simple math, and simple writing and reading. But today, they don't do that. So, as a result, when they move up, up, and up, they don't have the reading ability. Then they give you a book on the social studies. They give you a book on math. And the slow group don't have the fundamentals, the basics. So, they become dropouts, and they become discouraged, and they get into mischief. But those days, they don't. Those days, why, they taught them this basics. And then, on top of that, there was discipline. When I was teaching at Central, we disciplined the kids. But then, when the union came in, that took away all that right of discipline. We used to discipline the kids. When the kids went home and told their parents, they get it from the parents. If we wrote, call the parents up, that so-and-so is misbehaving, the parents came right down there. They just give---those days, discipline was by force, you see. But today, you can't do anything. The moment you touch a youngster, you know, already ...• WN: Times have changed. AL: Times have changed. So you don't have any discipline. That's why President Reagan now is trying to emphasize the fact that there 705

should be aiscipline so that it'll cut out all this nonsense in school where tl1e kids defy the teachers. When we were teaching, if the kids defy us, we just tell 'em, "Who the hell do you think you are?" They quiet down because they know they going to be disciplined. So, they come around, they do better, they study. But today, you can't do that because they dominate the teachers. And the teacher can't do anything. So, that's why, one thing I like about this is now they got the police become truant officers. We used to have the kids come over here all day sit around in our grounds here, smoking and drinking. But now, they don't, because they have to be in the school grounds. WN: Just before you entered the U.H. [University of Hawaii], you moved back to Kalihi, yeah? AL: Yeah, moved back to Kalihi. WN: Do you remember any kind of changes right at that time as compared to when you were a young boy?

AL: No, there was not too much difference because the area was still a rural area. Because the dairy was still here, this whole open place was here. This place here was still an open space, you see. Of course, when I moved back, all the youngsters are already working and have families. WN: While you were at St. Louis, what kind of activities were you involved in? AL: Well, as far as sports, I didn't get in any sports. It's just academic. Most of my activity was in academic. WN: Did many of the St. Louis graduates go on to U.H.? AL: Oh, yes. Many of them went to U.H. Some of them are business people. They're pretty well-to-do today. Some of them are doctors. One of them, my classmate, he was a doctor for Waimano Home until he retired. When he came out of school he was assigned there. WN: To get from your Kalihi home to U.H., how did you go? AL: Well, right at the corner there, there was a Mrs. McTaggart. Her husband was with the Department of Education. She was taking courses up at the University. Well, she had no driver's license. So, what she did in the morning--because our classes all begin in the morning. Then, I would go to her place and ride with her down to just where the Chinese restaurant is. There was a family there by the name of Iwasaki. WN: This is in Kalihi? 706

AL: Yeah. Name of Iwasaki. This boy was George, and he was going to University. He had a license. So, he used to drive us up in the morning. But like everything else, you have different hours of classes. So, after the classes are over, then 1 would walk all the way from University down to Chinatown where my mother and them lived. Then, from Chinatown, 1 walked back to Kalihi to this home where my stepfather was. 1 used to do that every day till I graduated. But that was only for one year, you see? Because my junior year, as I say, was shortcut. Then, after that, why, I did a little extra sales work. You know what the American Savings now? Well, when they first came, they came as American Mutual. The sales people were from the Mainland, but the one who was--I don't know whether he was an associate--asked me if I'd like to go and sell some shares. So, I went out and made a little money. That helped me out during my sophomore year to take care of some of my expenses. And junior. So, it was little here and little there that I kept going until I went to teach. WN: Did you do any other kind of selling or jobs? AL: No, no. Of course, I used to shine shoes. On the days when 1 really don't have anything, no money, why, 1 just take my shoeshine box around there and bootblack. WN: You mean, when you were going U.H.? When was this? How old were you? AL: Yeah, when 1 was going to U.H. WN: Where did you used to go to shine shoes? AL: No, right down. As 1 said, we were down in Chinatown. My mother and them were staying down Chinatown. But my stepfather was up with me up at the home here. Take a little shine shoe box down there, brush up people's shoes, and they give me. Sometimes they give me quarter, half a dollar. Those were big money those days, you know. Ten cents and like that. That carried us a long way. Then, my stepfather, we used to buy those carfare tokens. And then, he used to buy, oh, much, and then he put it in a 1 ittl e container there for me to take me to school and back. WN: Carfare tokens for the trolley? AL: Yeah, the trolley. Those days, they had tokens. They didn't have money, see. But prior to that, the trolleys used to have a motorman and a conductor. Well, the conductor would go down the line, and if it's ten cents, well, you give him a dime and he rings a bell every time he makes a collection. Then, you could see. But then, those were open transit. Now, when there's a big ball game down at Moiliili, that's when these people would catch the transit. There would be sides just like you see the one at the cable car in San Francisco? Well, those were the kind of transit 707

they had. Then, those transit were slow, so you jump off here. When the conductor get to your point, you get off, you go to the front. And some of them got to their destination that way. WN: How fast did that trolley go? AL: Oh, they don't go too fast. Fast enough for you to get off and fast enough for you to chase after it and jump--because they had handles on the side of the trolley. So, those were the experiences that we had, which many of today's people don't know. I mean, children growing up, they don't know. To us, it's convenience. To them, probably, we [were] inconvenienced. Imagine your mom, your grandma, used to go out and wash these clothes on a washboard, and then dry that. Then after that, have them iron it. You see, you put coal into the [iron], and then you blow it up until it gets hot. What they starch, practically all their things. Today, we say it • s inconvenience. To them, it was convenient. Today, why, you just take a sack of clothes, take 'em to the washerette, bring 'em home. And then, sort of sort it up and you have it made. WN: You also said that you used to hang around the taro patch and catch frogs or something? AL: Yeah, yeah. Well, this is up at the [Kalihi] valley here. What we used to do, we have a little red flag at the end of the rod. And we would go down with a little hook. And then, we'd tease the frog. Fella on the hook snaps it. And that day, they used to have a frogman; they called him the "frogman." He used to catch these frogs to take it down to the restaurants where they have frog legs. Frog legs was delicacy at the time. Well, we boys used to do that. After we catch couple of frogs, we just take the legs, and then slit it open, and put it on a hot coal or something like that. They call it "pulehu," you see. WN: Call it what? AL: Well, we call it broil. "Pulehu," the Hawaiians call it. WN: Oh, I see. You used to do that? AL: Yes. That's when we were kids, we used to do that. WN: You used to eat the whole frog or .•• AL: No, no. Just for the legs. The frog legs, slit them. The same thing, they used to have goldfishes living in those little [taro] patches. And they used to catch those goldfish and eat it. Slit it and eat it. Those days, nobody bother about pollution or anything because everything was clean. Everything clean. The waters that came from the streams were all clean. There were no rubbish or anything they threw into the [stream]. But today, it's really polluted. You can't even touch the water. The streams. When we used to go hiking, we used to drink the stream water which is cold and clean. So, those were the activities. END OF INTERVIEW 708

Tape No. 11-27-2-84 ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW with Albert Nawahi Like (AL) January 24, 1984 Kalihi, Oahu BY: Warren Nishimoto (WN)

WN: This is an interview with 1-ir. Albert Like on January 24, 1984 at the Latter Day Saints Genealogical Library in Kalihi. Okay, Mr. Like, last time you were telling me that you finished Normal School in 1927. AL: Part, yeah. It was part Normal and part the University, you see. WN: What was your first teaching job? AL: Well, my first teaching job, I was assigned down to the Kalihi Hospital there. That school was just made a part of the public school system. So, in order to have a certified teacher. The one who was teaching there was just one of those employees down there. He was picked up to do that. And so, when Lawrence M. Judd, who was a senator at the time •.• WN: What was his name again? AL: Lawrence M. Judd. He later became the governor of the [territory]. So, being Hawaiian, see? And I was staying up at the University. The superintendent of the hospital at the time knew me very well. That was Mrs. Bessie Clinton. Because of that, knowing that I was at the University, she asked Senator Judd to ask me to go down there to become their teacher. So, in the latter part of May of 1927--as I said, I was crossing the campus when the Dean of Education, Thane Livesay, called me into his office. And then, he said to me that he had a call from the department to get me ready to go out to teach. He gave me the choice, whether I wanted to come back to finish my senior year or to go teaching. Then, I said to him, 11 We11 ' provided they give me a good pay. II Because I struggled up to that year. So, Dean Livesay said to me, .. You don't have to worry about the pay. All you do is say yes or no ... 709

Well, after three years going through that, I decided I 1 ll go. When I decided that, he immediately told me to drop two of my subjects at the University because we were not training for education. We were training for high school which was as a specialist. So I dropped two of my subjects which were Spanish and Physics. And then, I went to Normal and took up education courses in how to teach arithmetic, simple reading. Those were the two subjects I was supposed to get trained, and also how to conduct myself as a teacher in a classroom. WN: When you were going to University did you expect to be a teacher eventually? AL: Yeah. Well, that was my goal. My objective was to become a teacher. And so, I made a choice. Dean Livesay said, 11 0kay. we•n provide every chance for you to come back during the summer or afternoon to make up the remaining credits so that you could get your bachelor•s degree ... So, in September 1927 I went out to Kalihi Hospital. At that time, they had named the school 11 1-tount Happy ... So, I went down there, got my certification to teach, and I became what they call a 11 teacher-pri nci pal .. for the school. They had students of all ages-­ school ages. So, being a one-room school, we have to teach the •... The earliest there was about, oh, eight years, I think. Well, anyway, we had a grade four--fourth grade. We had fifth grade. Fifth and sixth. Those were the elementary grades. WN: What kind of hospital was Kalihi Hospital? AL: That was the leper hospital. Because nobody wanted to go down. They couldn•t get anybody to go down there at the time. So, that • s why they called me to go down there to teach, because I knew this 1 ady very well. WN: The children there at Mount Happy School in the hospital, did they have leprosy or did their parents have leprosy? AL: No, no. They were active cases. They were separated from their parents and they were there. WN: Where were the parents? AL: No, the parents were outside. These were children who had contracted the disease. So, they were confined at the hospital there. WN: I see. The parents were living at home? AL: Yeah, outside there. And the parents would usually visit them during the weekends or any time during the week if they wish to come down and visit them. WN: Were there adults at the hospital, too? 710

AL: Oh, yes. Well, the whole hospital was for the leprosy patients. But here was a group of youngsters. They didn't want to have them go without a school. So, they established a school to take care of these children. At that time, they had close to about twenty children. All right, so I went down there and organized the curriculum, which was a simple program--reading, writing, and arithmetic, and a little history, and other things. But then, in that school there, they had a big, wide open building. So, they partitioned that, and they had in the next room a workshop. So, the Department of Health at the time provided all the tools, their little lathe, and everything for them. So, we had part of our time spent in the workshop making up little lamps--coconut lamps--and all those other things that the children was interested in. Making book stops. But the girls were not provided with any sewing class. If they did any sewing, they met with some of the [other] patients there. But the students themselves had the use of this shop. Then, on top of that, the doctors were interested in their recreational program. So, the doctor got some of the organizations--the Rotary Club, the Elks Club--got them interested. So, they bought the equipment. They bought basketball. They bought baseballs and bats, and other things. Then, they built swings and that to provide for the recreation of the youngsters. Soon, we didn't only have the youngsters involved in sports, we got the older ones involved in sports because we had all these sports equipment donated by these organizations. Then, we also had a scout program. The scouting group became interested in this group of youngsters because they had no outs ide activity. They could not go outside of the compound--we called it .. compound... So, they provided these scouting programs. Soon, the youngsters had their uniforms, scout equipment, so that they could participate in a scout program. So, many of them met their first-class and second-class badges, but they couldn't go out for hiking--fourteen mile hike--to qualify for the first-class badge or swimming because they didn't ••.• But we had the outside scout leaders come down and demonstrate calisthenics and all that with the boys--boy scouts. That way, we had these activities going at the hospital there. They were Troop 12. The Elks group were the sponsors for this troop. During the Christmas holidays, these organizations would come down. They would provide the Christmas gifts for all the patients, which included the children. And then, they would have their Christmas parties. That was the activities that these children had while they were confined at the hospital.

Then, during the year, they would set up ~ program. At the upper end of the compound--we call it 11 Compound 11 --there was a pavilion. This pavilion here was for the patients themselves. They would come down in this pavilion here. Outside organizations who want to entertain, churches, would come on the other side of the fence and conducted their church services or whatever the program they had. Then, in return, the school would put up skits. 711

Like skits, they used to have a minstrel show. They would have hula and singing. They would have this program to entertain their parents and guests and whoever came to watch the show. That's where the school participated in. We had a very interesting time. This went on until 1941. WN: Who owned the school? AL: The school was a public school. At one time, it was just under the Department of Health. You see, the teacher was paid by the Department of Health. But when the school became a part of the public school system, that's when they changed it. That's when I was called in as a certified teacher to go down there and teach these children. WN: The Department of Health actually ran the hospital? AL: It ran the hospital, yes. WN: [Territory] hospital? AL: They ran that [territory] hospital. But the doctors, were under the United States Health Department. Public Health, that the doctors were under. They were U.S. But the Department of Health was the one that took care of the hospital. WN: Exactly where in Kalihi was the hospital? AL: Well, you know this Puuhale Road? At that time, the whole back area down 'flas one big, open space. They did not have a canal. They didn't have any wharfs or anything. More or less, in the back, was an open pond, a swamp. It was not until about 1939 when Dillingham and those people came in and began to dig that canal there. All the rocks and the coral was dumped over towards the hospital boundary. So, as I said, up to 1941, the children, in the evenings, they would have their socials. They have their own musicians, and they would have dances. They would have entertainment among themselves. Then in the evening, they would have their devotion, what they called their prayer meetings. The patients come together, and then they have night service, and then they go home. That's the activities of the hospital when I was teaching down there. Up to 1941, then came that bombing of Pearl Harbor. Fortunately, over our school--! don't know who thought that up--was a big, red cross. So, naturally, when the enemy's planes flew over, they did not disturb that section. From the hospital, you could see Pearl Harbor very clearly. It was a front seat for that event. You see all these battleships in flames. From that time on, the whole hospital was under--well, we don't say "alert," but we're under strict security supervision. So, the school continued until the 712

latter part of May •42, when they decided to transfer all the children, everybody, back to Kalaupapa. They discontinued the school. You see, every six months there, they would have an examination. And then, this way, they determined what patients need to go to Kalaupapa. That is always a sad event, when your name is called that you were going to Kalaupapa. Because at that time they felt once you went to Kalaupapa, you never returned. They would transfer these patients on the Hawaii. That was a cattle boat. WN: Hawaii? AL: Yeah. Hawaii and Humuula. On the front part of that deck, the lower deck, where the animals were, that would be cleaned up. And that•s where the patients were. Because the cabin was in the back. On the humuula, was upstairs. So, every six months, they would have. Because of that, they would have tight security to see none of these people ran away, but some of them did. Some of them went into hiding until the boat leaves. When the boat leaves, they know they•11 be there for another six months until the next--they call it 11 Shipment 11 --when there•s a next transfer. WN: The more severe cases went to Kalaupapa? AL: Yeah, yeah. WN: So, as you got worse, then you got sent? AL: Well, not only got worse, because you came in that way already, you see? Because many of the cases in the olden days, they went into hiding. When they discovered these cases, they were pretty much advanced, you see? So, when they came in, they were advanced. But the ones who came in very early, they would also have an examination. And then, when they appear before the doctor, and the doctor checked them out and they found that they were negative--that they didn•t have these bacillus or the germs--then they were put on probation. Then, they go back with their family and report back upon the recommendation of the doctor. You come back in six months, or come back a year, or you come sooner for a check. That•s how they do it. WN: Did the kids stay in the hospital or were they allowed to go home? AL: No, no. They stayed until they were transferred. That was those days, but today, why, no. They go home. WN: So, this hospital in Kalihi Kai was the only leper hospital AL : No . You see, the first hospital was at Kakaako. That•s where the first hospital was. 713

WN: Where in Kakaako? AL: I don't know where in Kakaako, but they called it the "receiving station." Then, they moved down to Kalihi. The used to call these the "receiving station." Kalihi Receiving Station. Then, they converted over to Kalihi Hospital. WN: About how many patients were there altogether?

AL: When they went up to about, oh, 100 or more patients, then came the time for them to ship over to transfer. Then, those days, they were coming in. Practically every week you had one or two. Within the year's time, you probably would have an admission of more than fifty come in. Then, they arranged for another transfer. WN: What was Kalihi Kai like? You know, the area near the hospital? AL: It was wide open space. Kiawe trees. The bus would come up as far as Puuhale School. From then you walked the distance. All right, there were very few homes along that Puuhale Road. It was more ki awe trees. Then, way bel ow, oh, not very far from where the hospital is, was a crematory. It was a Japanese crematory. That's where, if any of the patients in the hospital passed away, they would take their body out there. All the bodies were not buried or interred, the bodies were cremated first and the ashes were sent home. That's where that hospital was. And at the end, they had a little store there which accommodated the patients within the hospital. So, if you want anything, why, you would call over to the storekeeper. The storekeeper would come around and ask what you want, and you tell what you want. Then, they get it for you, you see. So, that was the life. But the people who lived there, they lived well; they enjoyed well. They were happy while they were there. It's only when this division would come, when they became unhappy about the whole thing. WN: The what? AL: It was only when this transfer came, that's when came the divisions. WN: How did the neighborhood feel about---how did they feel about having this hospital in this area? AL: No, there was no neighborhood down there because it was wide open space. They were way down the end [of Puuhale Road, near the ocean]. Of course, way down the end was a little fishing village. Some Hawaiians stayed there. But no, it was just kiawe. Then, recently, things began to develop. They had this canal bu1lt, then they had these military piers built. Soon that became an industrial area. Today, you couldn't find that place at all because it has changed to an industrial area. WN: When did it start to become industrial? 714

AL: Well, that was after the. • I think, maybe about 1945 or '50 when they dug that canal through and at the same time built that military pier down at that end. WN: How many teachers were there besides yourself? AL: I was the only one. Because we only had, at the most, students, which was twenty-five to thirty, you see? So, that is the school post. Of course, the children, they do some of this shop work. Some of their work, like lamps, parents or friends took them home and used it. WN: What nationality of kids was it mostly? AL: Well, they were Hawaiians, part-Hawaiians. They were Japanese, they were Chinese. They were a mixed group. WN: So they came from all over Oahu? AL: Yeah. Not only Oahu. All over the Islands. Now, this young fella who's causing all this commotion--this Bernard Punikaia--he was little youngster when he went to Kalaupapa. He was just about six years old at the time. WN: You mean, so people would come to the Kalihi Receiving Station first AL: Yeah, for treatment. WN: then they would either stay or go to Kalaupapa? AL: Or go, yeah. Either they stay, go [to Kalaupapa], or go home. Either to go home or go Kalaupapa that time. Then later, the Senator became the Governor of Hawaii [Lawrence M. Judd]. Then, every holiday, New Year's Day, he would come down as governor to visit with the patients there. He remembered them all the time. He was the one that got me down there. And so, I stayed for fifteen years. WN: How much did you get paid? AL: Well, when I started, I started with $110, which was the •.. WN: Per month? AL: Per month. Which was the salary of all the elementary teachers at the time. Then, before long I got my secondary high school certificate. Then I was up to $180. And then I stayed with $180. When the school closed, then I went to Central. That was the minimum for the high school, was $180 at the time. We stayed along, then came the war. And came some more, little COLA [Cost of Living Allowance]. So, the salary gradually went up little by little. 715

WN: How did you feel when you first 1earned that you may go to this hospital to teach? AL: Well, I was already prepared for that, you see? Because this superintendent already had said, 11 We want you to come down because there•s nobody here to want to be here. You know your own people. You probably would be helpful to us ...

And so, I said, 11 0kay ... WN: What about the thoughts of going to a place where there•s a contagious disease?

AL: Well, at the time, I didn•t think too much about that. After learning that the people who have gone to Kalaupapa there--whose wife is patient and the husband is non-patient, and they live together, and the husband has not contracted the disease. When I went down there they told me some of the precautions there. WN: What were some of the precautions? AL: Well, the precaution is to see that you wash your hands. And of course, wear a gown. WN: When you taught you wore a gown? AL: Yeah, when you went you got to wear to gown. Well, not this long gown, but just like a coat. You know, a jacket. But there, some of them, the nurses, were more careful than the others. They wouldn•t open a door with their hands. Either they have to wear glove, or they would push one of their aprons up to open the door. But after all, it wasn•t that bad. WN: While you were in the classroom, you wore a gown? AL: Yeah. No, well, it was just a jacket, like that. Then, after you got acquainted with them, there was no more fear to that. It was just like an ordinary .••• So, when you came home, you wash your hands clean. Of course, the precaution is, they always aware of the fact if a child has an open sore like that, they•11 confine •em in the hospital and see that he•s treated until he•s well enough. So, there•s no way to be afraid of them. WN : Do you still see some of those kids today? AL: Oh, yes. Some of them are out. Some of them are at the Kalaupapa. But I don•t visit there as often. About two or three years ago, I was up there. And then, of course, one of them was my class. She•s there, but she comes out often. I do see her. Last month, I saw her. WN: They closed the hospital down in 1942. Why did they close it down? 716 .

AL: Because we were right immediate to Pearl Harbor. Fearing that there probably would be another attack or something like that, because we were just in the war zone at the time. When we left, they decided to move the children out, we went out on the--! think it was the Humuula. Anyway, the boat was being manned by the military. Those boats all had guns on it. But the navigation was under the Navy. So, we left there, like in the morning about ten o•clock. And before we left, they had the sub circle around the ship to see that there was no enemy. And then, we went out. When we left the harbor, the destroyer was ahead of us. They the ones that took us. And probably the submarines were alongside. Of course, we didn•t know. We got to Kalaupapa late that afternoon, about four o•clock.

WN: How many days after the bombing was this? Was this in 1 42? AL: Yeah. Just about six months. Because December [1941], eh? So, we left, and there was a destroyer out there. Took us all the way. We got to Kalaupapa late that afternoon. Disembark the kids, took them out, and then left them, said good-bye. All the kids were in scout uniform. So, we disembarked them. About five o•clock, just before dusk, we came back. Myself and the two nurses. When we came back, the destroyer was still ahead of us. All night--we slept on the upper deck because the patients were down in the hold--all night, this boat just traveled and traveled. All of a sudden it stopped, and then it moved again, and then it stopped. So, we went all night. And then, when we got up in the morning, we were coming in not from Molokai side. We were coming in from Kauai. We were heading in from the other side. I think that they must have gone around the island. So that we get in the daylight rather than during the night, you see. So, was quite an interesting experience. WN: That move was a permanent move? AL: Yeah, that was the permanent one. When I came back, then I got the job at the Central Intermediate. The commissioner of the school board came and see me to prepare a course of study for these children. Because they had two patients up at Kalaupapa who were former certified teachers, you see? And for me to set the program, send it, and go up there. And then, leave it to the two teachers to carry on from then on. So, I prepared the curriculum for those youngsters and flew over to Kalaupapa, and then made all the arrangements, then I came home. WN: Did they ask you to be a teacher there? AL: No, no. They didn•t ask me to be a teacher, because they knew I was coming home. Because they already had two certified teachers there. So, these two certified teachers took over the school. Then, 1 came home. WN: How did you feel about the school closing down? 717

AL: Oh, like everything else, you're so close to it, you kind of feel, oh, your own sentiments. You have sentimental feelings about the whole thing. Then, the Kalihi Hospital was moved to Hale Mohalu. WN: What year was this? (Telephone rings. Voices heard in background.}

AL: I just don't know what year was that. Then, they [Hale Mohalu] had a certified teacher. They were all beginning to become high school kids. So, she wanted to go on a sabbatical leave. So, again, they knew that I knew these boys. So, Dr. Church, called me up. He says, "How about a swap? We got a haole teacher coming down here. I don't think she would enjoy teaching here. Why don't you swap? Let her go to Central." I said, "Fine." So, I went back to Hale Mohalu in 1955, I think. Then I taught a whole year. I had that graduation class. But when I got down there, we have these seniors there, and we had a grand program that night. Graduation. WN: What were the differences between Hale Mohalu and the Kalihi hospital? AL: Well, this time, when I went to Hale Mohalu, I had the teen-agers. They were in the high school. Some of them were already doing their senior work. So, I went down there just in time to provide all the arrangements, course of studies. See, by that time, I was a high school teacher, you see. WN: At Central? AL: At Central. And I had all this background. This math, social studies, science, and all that. So, I went down. That was the last time I was there. I came out straight in Central till I retired. I stayed at Central for twenty-three years. They wouldn't let me go. (Chuckles) WN: So, when you started at Central Intermediate around 1942, what did you teach? AL: That was in 14ay. It was just a few weeks, and then the school would close for the summer. Well, as I said, I was at the supervising principal's office--Mr. Robert Faulkner was the supervising principal. (Taping stops, then resumes.) AL: Well, I was in the office of the superv1s1ng principal Robert Faulkner when a telephone call came saying that they wanted a substitute at Central Intermediate. So, Mr. Faulkner said to me, "Okay, you go 718

to Central to substitute while I arrange for you to go to the Salvation Army Boys Home because you are a specialist... So, I consented. So, I went to Central. I walked into this room. This was a science class. The teacher was George Fujioka. He was an intern teacher from University of Hawaii. When I walked in the room there was on the blackboard a formula. Chemistry was down my alley. That formula was very familiar. So, what I did was complete the formula and everything, and taught the class. The next thing, something happened. The boys' advisor was called into service. So, there was a vacancy there. They called the teacher, the seventh-grade teacher from the garden, to come over and take his place. So there was a vacancy, and I was available at the time. · So, the supervising principal said to me, 11 0kay, Mr. Like, you stay there until you finish this month, which is the last month ·of the school, and come and see me. 11 Since I did a good job, when the new school year began, I was called as a permanent teacher. So, I stayed there from 1942 until '65 when I was retired. WN: You taught what courses? AL: Well, the part I went was the finishing of that agricultural garden class. Then, when 1 went in for the regular, 1 went into teaching math. Ninth-grade math. And then, 1 went into social studies. But my department was math. I had all math classes all through the year. That's how 1 stayed there. tND OF INTERVIEW 719

Tape No. 11-29-3-84 ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW with Albert Nawahi Like (AL) January 26, 1984 Kal ihi, Oahu BY: Warren Nishimoto (WN)

WN: This is an interview with Mr. Albert Like. Today is January 26, 1984. And we're at the Latter Day Saints Genealogical Library in Kalihi. Okay, during World War II, what do you remember about Kalihi? What was Kalihi like during the war? AL: Well, prior to World War II, that whole area just mauka of School Street was an open pasture land, which was formerly taro patches. So, it became a pasture land. Because it was so spacious the mi 1 i tary people took upon themselves that this was the place for them to train [personnel in the use of military] equipment. So, all the heavy equipments were brought up there. And there, the soldiers were trained to operate these equipments during the World War II. In the meantime, they also had built barracks up there where these (rnen lived). During (the war), the whole city was black out. So, each area had their own block wardens. These block wardens at night would patrol the area to see that all the 1 i ghts were off and that they were secured. So, each night, two to a block (were assigned. They both wore steel helmets marked 'W' and carried gas masks and identi fi cation passes signed by the Chief of Police.) They would alert the people and [were] more or less responsible for the people (living) within that block for their security. Every night they would patrol. They would look up the skies or they would hope that nothing would happen. In the meantime, at Fort Shafter, the ordnance department, they were hiring civilians to work in the warehouse there as storekeepers. What they did was, every time there was an order, they would (prepare) this order and get them ready to (be shipped) to the Marshall Islands or wherever the military people was fighting at the time. So, (word) finally (came) that the Japanese were moving into Midway and that anything may happen. So, we were prepared to take care of that with the hope that there would be (no) sirens. In those days, every home had a little (trench) dug out. In case there was a raid, they would go into this. But the bigger places like the 720

schoo 1 s, they had their bomb shelters where they went into the shelter. So, each homes were instructed to build a little shelter there--their little trenches where they could go to (hide in the event of an air raid). So, all during that time, the people were prepared and kept (under) security. See that their lights did not show out, they had their b1 ackouts. That's what I remember about this.

In the meantime, the military moved in, and then they began to set up their equipment--their training operations to prepare for them to move over to these different places as soon as the Army moved in or the Marines moved in and took over. These people sent the equipment or they send these men there to take care of all these areas which the U.S. people had taken over.

WN: And you said this was mauka of School Street?

AL: Mauka of School Street.

WN: So, it's near your house?

AL: Yeah, yeah. See, my house was just off School Street. And the boundary line (of the military reservation) came right down to our fence there. That's where they were. WN: Before the military took it over, who owned that 1 and?

AL: I don't know who owned the 1 and. But I know that after the military people moved out, then Sakuma, I think, (and) some other group came ; n and bought over the place. Then they had those barracks there. When the military people moved out, then the people moved in and rented those barracks.

WN: So, the barracks were built during the war?

AL: During the war. I don't know when the developers came in. They (1 ater) removed all those barracks and began to develop around that area for homes or subdivisions and that. Well, in the meantime, there was a community that was built farther up into Kal ihi. (A Catholic orphanage was founded and 1ater a Filipino community was built known as the Five Star General Moncada Center.) That • s way up there [in Kalihi Valley]. That's where the first Filipino community started.

WN: About when was that?

AL: I think that was about prior to 1940, I think. So, when they built that community, that's when the Filipinos began to move in. But they [Moncada] were a special group. They 1 ived on certain restrictions. They were not religious group, but they were vegetarians (and followers of General Moncada's leadership). That's where the first group began to move. Then as time went on, then the hotels (in Waikiki) 721

began to go up. Hospitals began to go up. In the meantime, there were immigrants coming in [to Kalihi] from the Philippines. And so, when they began to move in, the Kalihi area began to accept these people. They bought old homes. (Rooms were added by raising the houses and converting garages.) They converted these homes into little (rooms) by itself. So, all these people had a place to stay. So, I don't know how much they were charging, but every room was being occupied. (Several families 1 ived in one house.) So, that way, they began to grow and grow. Soon, the people of the community began to move out. As they moved out, the Filipinos bought. They moved out, the Filipinos bought. Soon, after 1960, the Filipino (population multiplied by the thousands. Soon they became the majority homeowners of Kalihi). At that time, after '60-something, they did away with the piggeries up there and built that Kalihi Valley housing for low-income people. At the same time, they built this Kuhio Terrace here. Built it up and became for the low-income people. (In upper Kalihi Valley in the early 1930s were pig farms; chickens and pigs were raised by Okinawan families. In the 1940s the pig farms were done away with. The Okinawan families moved away. This area was then set aside for low-income housing which today is called the Kal i hi Valley Housing. In the 1950s and 1960s more improvements appeared in upper Kalihi, or Kalihi Uka. An intermediate school-- Dole Intermediate School--a police substation and a fire station were built on Kam IV Road, and another elementary school--Kaewai Elementary School--was also built. In the 1950s, the Kal ihi Wilson Tunnel was started and finished in the 1960s. The building of Likelike Highway began in the early 1960s and finished the following year. Kuhio Park Terrace, another low-income high-rise was started in 1964 and completed in 1965. Kalihi Library was started in the 1960s and so was the Kal i hi YMCA [Young r~en' s Christi an Association].)

In this area here, 1 ived many of the prominent people at the time prior to 1960.

WN: This area where the [Mormon] church is now? AL: This area where the church is belonged to William Mutch. He had this whole area.

WN: Wil 1 i am ~1arch?

AL: Mutch. M-U-T-C-H. Bel ow here belonged to the C.J. Day, he was a very prominent (businessman).

WN: C.J. Day?

AL: Yeah. Oh, they had business down in town (opposite the King Theater). Then, right bel ow here, was the Susannah Wesley Home. Susannah Wesley Home was the girls' orphanage, just like an orphanage. And then, within this area were some prominent families. The Farr family 722

lived here. The Fernandez family. Edward Fernandez used to be the circus man. His family lived here. And the Moss family lived here, the Beck family lived here. And Gladys Brandt who was (the former principal of the Kamehameha School for Girls and current member of the University of Hawaii Board of Regents.) The family used to live here. The Kanuha family. Then, we have Bina Mossman who was (a member of the Territorial House of Representatives and) a prominent individual at the time. She lived in this area. And then, we had Emma Nakuina. That's how this place was called Beckley [her husband's name]. She was a very prominent (Hawaiian) historian in the early days. So, this was practically a very prominent area. Then, below here, we had Mr. Manuel C. Pacheco. He was at one time on the (Board of) Supervisors. Very prominent individual. (There were other prominent people, such as developer Herbert Horita, and Representatives William Furtado, Akira Sakima, James Wakatsuki, etc.) Then, beyond, right across where the canal is, in that little street, lived the Richard family. And one among them, Timo Philips, was well known in sports. And here in this area the Kalihi barefoot [football team] was very outstanding. They were coached by this Manuel DeCorte. He taught at Kalihi-Waena and he just had one arm. Now, this area was most of them Hawaiian. But when you went up in Kalihi Uka, that was a Portuguese community. That's where the Nobrigas were, the Coelhos were, the Santanas were, and many of the prominent Portuguese lived up in that area. WN: Why was that? Why were there so many Portuguese up there? AL: I don't know. When we came up there, they had already occupied the places up there. Then, after that, we talked about that Filipino community. Then, right along, as we come down from School Street coming down, alongside there were homes for the Kamehameha School faculties. That's where their homes were. Now, within Kamehameha School where the Bishop Museum is, the Bishop Museum was there. (The Kamehameha School for Boys dormitories were two-story buildings. They faced the parade ground and the Bishop Museum.) Every Sunday, people would assemble there and the boys would put on a review. So, this area here had very many prominent people living in this area. But as I said, as they moved out, the Filipinos moved in. And today, this is a Filipino community. You have very, very few non-Filipinos who have not moved out. Used to be the Japanese Sakumas here. The Horitas used to live here in the early days. Now, today, (Herbert Horita is) one of the big developers in the Islands.

1m: So, would you say that this area where the [Mormon] church is now was like the upper crust of AL: Yeah, yeah. This area here was the upper crust of the community. That is, this side of the community. This is where all the politicians were. Furtado, an outstanding representative. Wakatsuki was also raised up in here. Before they cut this freeway, 723

there was a park. here which they called the Fernandez Park. (located mauka of Beckley Street). WtJ: When did they cut the freeway, about? AL: Let's see. I think, in the middle '60s •••• Yeah, I think the middle '60s. While they were (building) this tunnel there, they were (building) this Likelike Freeway. WN: The Wilson Tunnel came up around 1959, 1960, yeah?

AL: t~o. no. Late. Very late. Later than WN: Wilson Tunnel? AL: Yeah. I think was later than that. [Wilson Tunnel was completed in November 1960.]. WN: How did the freeway and the Wilson Tunnel affect Kalihi? AL: Well, then the people moved out. All that area where the park is, used to be all residence there. So, the roadway took all those people away. So, they moved out. Because facing the park there were all homes at one time. So, the change began to gradually change to the image of the Kalihi image. Today, why, it's different entirely than what it was prior to 1960. Because the Filipinos didn't move in until 1960s when they start moving in. WN: What about the tunnel? Did it change Kalihi at all? The building of the Wilson Tunnel? AL: Well, yes. The Wilson tunnel did change a lot. Because the traffic, the movement, began. Then, the valuation of the land came up. Well, when the School Street was (extended), the tax assessment (increased). Then, as each improvement came along, the tax went up and went up. Today, the value of a square foot right in this area here is around ten dollars a square foot now. At the time we built our home, we only built a home--a good home--for $8,000. That same home today, you cannot build less than $30,000. So, we lived here and we paid tax. Today, just that little portion of mine is fifty by eighty. The market value is $80,000. I have to pay tax. Mine is the exemption. 1 have a $35,000 exemption. Because of that, I paid better than $400 tax, whereas in the early days I only paid about eighty dollars. So your value of the land is going up because of the improvements that have come in. You can't buy any place here in Kalihi less than a $100,000 now. Even an old shack. But what the Filipinos have done, they bought these old shacks. Then they raised it up, and they had tiles. They improve the images. If you went through all this Kalihi area just for a drive, you see beautiful homes. WN: They were all fee simple? 724

AL: All fee simple, yeah. All fee simple. WN: They bought the property? AL: All this area fee simple. Except for some portion down below where the Kapalama School (is). Those are all lease land. WN: Bishop Estate? AL: Bishop Estate. But I think the Bishop Estate has released it into fee simple now. I just don't know. WN: Did property values go up, too, when [Kamehameha Shopping Center] that was built [in the 1960s]? - AL: Yeah, well, you see, School Street came in. The transit came in. The improvements went up. When the shopping center came in, it doubled up the whole thing. Then, right below the shopping center, that was a semi -industrial area, see? My brother-i n-1 aw had a place, 100 by 100, he sold that for $130,000, which [is] probably equivalent to about thirteen dollars a square foot, to a Filipino hui. The Filipinos, they live together as a big family. So, they TnVest their money together to purchase these lands and these properties. That's how they were able to acquire many of these. And many of the people who live in the area here are people who (work) at the hotels as busboys, maids and other menial jobs. Then, the Filipino girls, the same thing. Then, they are also acting as aides in the hospitals. So, they able to support and sustain themselves and keep up with the payments up there in the homes. Because within the family, you have about six families. And they all kompa together to put their monies together. Then, they rent these places, just one little room, for $100 or $135. And they get back these extra ones, and they pay their loans or their mortgages. That's how they maintain these homes that you see in Kalihi. They're beautiful homes, but they are just renovated from old homes. They just raise it up, give it a painting, and set up little extra decorations that make it so (new). Because of the improvements like that, the value of the land goes up, you see? WN: So, you taught at Central Intermediate from 1942 to 1965. AL: Yeah, '65. WN: And then, you retired from teaching. AL: Yeah, I retired from teaching. Then, Mr. Frank Loo came and said to me--he happened to have seen me one evening after I retired--to come over and take his business, you see? He was in the collection business. WN: Is this the former [city] councilman? 725

AL: Yeah, the former councilman. So, he asked me to take over his business as a collector. So I went in the collecting business for five years, and it was a tough job. WN: You mean, what? Garnishee? AL: Yeah, garnishee and everything. See, I'm not a hard person. That made it difficult to me. When you have these guys, what can you do? You go to garnishee them because of failure to pay. Then, we used to get these requests from the Mainland and all over the place. I was with Frank till I sold the business out. And in the meantime, I had this other work that I'm doing now. So, today, I not only work with genealogies, I do translations. I get money from that. I work with the attorneys to do land search. To review them and you have to (certify these) documents. That's why sometimes you see these people come in (for help). They come in for little while to do research. Then, the attorneys send in their people for their translations. That way, I got lot of extra money outside of my retirement and my social security. So, today, my net is twice what it was when I was teaching. Because the federal was taking, the state was taking, and your organization was taking. So, naturally your take-home pay was probably only about 75 percent of the 100 percent that you would receive. But today, with the retirement it's a 100 percent net. And plus, this outside income. WN: And you still live in Kalihi today? AL: Yeah, I been here since 1909. WN: What are your feelings toward Kalihi as you look back? AL: Well, with all the improvements, today is better, I think. To me, it's very convenient because I live next-door to the shopping center. See, just across. Then, there's a bank there. There's (chuckles) a supermarket there. There's every convenience there. You cannot help but say that's the best such thing there is. So, I grew up in Kalihi and then went to school. Of course, for a short time, I stayed down in Chinatown because school was close. Then, I came back with my stepfather and then went to University. Went to University on a shoestring, made it. (Laughs) WN: What about the King Street area where the businesses are? Did that go through a lot of changes, too? AL: Well, down here has gone through lot of changes. You could see what happened now. They got Kentucky Fried right now [on Kalihi and King Streets, across from Farrington High School]. Then, they had that building there where they had the little restaurants and little furniture stores and barbershops. Then, on the makai side, you also had a store there. There was a store, grocery store, there. Now you have a service station there. And then, after the Kamehameha School moved up the heights, then the government 726

took over and made it a lower-income housing, which is Kamehameha Housing. Then, mauka began to develop as a school, Farring·ton. Farrington began te grow and began to add buildings. So, Farri ngto.n became a high scho0l that took all that area, makai. The same thing, you went down makai of Ki n.g Street, w.ai akamilo, on that side there, they were all · residents there one time. Now, they have apartments and (business a.nd indu,stria·l plants}. WN: As you 1ook back at all your experiences, would you have done anythhtg differently? Al: Well, I don't know. I don't think I would. (Laughs} Because education was in my field, you see. So, I ended up with education. Then, I went out into these other business, which was different entirely from what it was in teaching. So, that was it. Every day, I meet someone, one my stud.ents, who I didn't know. They come up and say hello to me. Then, they tell me that they were my students. Of course, within that twenty-three years that I taught at Central, ~ had couple of thousand youngsters pass through me and they al.l remembered me. We l1 , the good Lord's been good to me, so I enjoy my life these many years. Within a few months from now .come April-­ this is already getting into February--April, I'll be eighty-four, still active. That's why, I'm just a little grateful that my mind (chuckles} is still active and alert. WN: Yeah, it really is. (Laughter} WN.: Before I turn .off the tape, is there anything more you want to say? AL: No, 1 don't recall anything that 1 could say. Of cotllrse, 1 belong to several organizations here. Haw.aiian organizations. Hawaiia·n Civic Club, Alu Like, and Bishop Muse~m, Ha.w.aiian Historical Society. And of course, alumni to two schools--Univer.sity and St. Louis. And other big or.ganizations 1 ike the AARP [American A-s.sGciation for Retired Persons], the national organization. So far, my commtJ.nity activities is limited because of this work that 1 hav,e here. But now and then, when it comes to the social part, well, that's in the evenings. (Chuckles} You can go to these socials and spend a little money. WN: Oh, you do that? AL: Yeah. WN: Well, thank you very much for your time. AL: Well, no problem. END OF INTERVIEW KALIHI: Place ol Transition

Vol. I

ETHNIC STUDIES ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Social Scie.nce Research Institute University of Hawaii at Manoa . . JUNE 1984 ·