Tird Session, 41st Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tursday, October 4, 2018 Morning Sitting Issue No. 154

THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

Third Session, 41st Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture...... Hon. Attorney General...... Hon. , QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Minister of Health ...... Hon. Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology...... Hon. Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Minister of Municipal Afairs and Housing...... Hon. Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Tird Party ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker...... Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Linda Reid Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...... Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ...... Gary Lenz ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Penticton Abbotsford-Mission ...... Simon Gibson Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Abbotsford South ...... Hon. Darryl Plecas Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Abbotsford West ...... Michael de Jong, QC Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Boundary-Similkameen...... Linda Larson Begg, Garry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Guildford Burnaby–Deer Lake ...... Anne Kang Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds ...... Raj Chouhan Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Brar, Jagrup (NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Burnaby North...... Janet Routledge Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)...... Surrey South Cariboo-Chilcotin...... Donna Barnett Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... –West End Cariboo North ...... Coralee Oakes Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Chilliwack...... John Martin Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack-Kent...... Laurie Troness Chow, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fraserview Columbia River–Revelstoke...... Doug Clovechok Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Joan Isaacs Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Langley East Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Hon. Selina Robinson Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Courtenay-Comox ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River North Delta North ...... de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West Delta South...... Ian Paton Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Esquimalt-Metchosin...... Mitzi Dean D’Eith, Bob (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kamloops–North Tompson...... Peter Milobar Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...... Stikine Kamloops–South Tompson ...... Todd Stone Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Kelowna–Lake Country...... Norm Letnick Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Kelowna-Mission...... Steve Tomson Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Kelowna West...... Ben Stewart Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kootenay East ...... Tom Shypitka Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)...... Vernon-Monashee Kootenay West ...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Langford–Juan de Fuca...... Hon. John Horgan Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Langley...... Mary Polak Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Langley East ...... Glumac, Rick (NDP)...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Bob D’Eith Heyman, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Hon. Lisa Beare Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca Mid Island–Pacifc Rim ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Nanaimo ...... Leonard Eugene Krog Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Doug Routley James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Nechako Lakes ...... John Rustad Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Queensborough Nelson-Creston...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)...... Delta North New Westminster ...... Hon. Judy Darcy Kang, Anne (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ...... Nanaimo North Island ...... Hon. Claire Trevena Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)...... Shuswap North Vancouver–Lonsdale ...... Bowinn Ma Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen North Vancouver–Seymour ...... Jane Tornthwaite Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ...... Courtenay-Comox Parksville-Qualicum ...... Michelle Stilwell Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River North...... Dan Davies Ma, Bowinn (NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Peace River South...... Mike Bernier Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Penticton...... Dan Ashton Martin, John (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack Port Coquitlam ...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–North Tompson Port Moody–Coquitlam ...... Rick Glumac Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...... Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Mackenzie ...... Mike Morris Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Prince George–Valemount...... Shirley Bond Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond North Centre ...... Teresa Wat Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)...... Delta South Richmond-Queensborough ...... Jas Johal Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.)...... Abbotsford South Richmond South Centre...... Linda Reid Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Richmond-Steveston...... John Yap Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)...... Saanich South Saanich North and the Islands...... Adam Olsen Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich South...... Hon. Lana Popham Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Shuswap ...... Greg Kyllo Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond South Centre Skeena ...... Ellis Ross Rice, Jennifer (NDP)...... North Coast Stikine ...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Cloverdale...... Marvin Hunt Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)...... Skeena Surrey-Fleetwood ...... Jagrup Brar Routledge, Janet (NDP)...... Burnaby North Surrey–Green Timbers ...... Rachna Singh Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Guildford ...... Garry Begg Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Surrey-Panorama...... Hon. Jinny Sims Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey South...... Stephanie Cadieux Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Whalley...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Sims, Hon. Jinny (NDP) ...... Surrey-Panorama Surrey–White Rock...... Tracy Redies Singh, Rachna (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Fairview ...... Hon. George Heyman Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–False Creek...... Sam Sullivan Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. George Chow Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver-Hastings ...... Hon. Shane Simpson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Kensington ...... Mable Elmore Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Kingsway ...... Hon. Adrian Dix Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Langara ...... Michael Lee Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ...... Hon. Melanie Mark Tomson, Steve (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–Point Grey...... Hon. David Eby, QC Tornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver-Quilchena ...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Troness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Vancouver–West End...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vernon-Monashee...... Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill ...... Hon. Carole James Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Swan Lake ...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano ...... Ralph Sultan Yap, John (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ...... Jordan Sturdy

Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS

Tursday, October 4, 2018 Morning Sitting Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members...... 5461

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 5462 Fire Prevention Week S. Cadieux Homelessness Action Week M. Elmore Lorraine March G. Kyllo DIVERSEcity Community Resources Society in Surrey R. Singh Saanich Peninsula and Gulf Islands housing issues A. Olsen Experiences of women and Me Too campaign B. Ma

Oral Questions...... 5464 Debate on LNG Canada project in Legislature A. Wilkinson Hon. J. Horgan Community benefts agreement and workers T. Stone Hon. J. Horgan LNG Canada project and jobs A. Olsen Hon. M. Mungall Community benefts agreement and workers G. Kyllo Hon. C. Trevena Sofwood lumber negotiations and trade with U.S. J. Rustad Hon. J. Horgan D. Barnett

Orders of the Day

Committee of the Whole House...... 5469 Bill 36 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 3), 2018 (continued) A. Weaver Hon. M. Mark I. Paton Hon. L. Popham M. Lee Hon. D. Eby

5461

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2018 ness, from New Westminster. And he outdressed me today. Please welcome Mr. Kirby. Te House met at 10:04 a.m. Hon. C. Trevena: I appreciate being called to make the [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] introductions. I have got a number of guests in the gallery today who I Routine Business would like to welcome and hope people will help me wel- come them. Tey are from component 10 of the BCGEU. Prayers. Tis is the group that represents highway maintenance [10:05 a.m.] workers, with numerous employees right across the province. Introductions by Members We have, in the gallery, Rory Smith from Chilliwack. He’s a purchasing agent. Kelly McDonald from 100 Mile is a Hon. J. Horgan: I’ll start the morning with a fun fact. grader operator. Darren Feltren from Hope is also a grader People may not be aware of this. My good son Nate studied operator. John Cantlon from Hudson’s Hope is a road fore- in Freiberg, Germany, for a year and, also, couldn’t get an man. Earl Haward from Smithers is a grader operator. Scott internship here at the Legislature, but he did at the German Bumphrey from Duncan is a mechanic. Shea Morgan from Bundestag. Galiano is a road foreman; Danny Campbell from Parksville, Why that’s relevant is that joining us today in the mem- a grader operator. bers’ gallery is the Hon. Stephan Weil, the minister president Michelle McKenna from Merritt drives truck and is an of the state of Lower Saxony. He is joined today by a deleg- equipment operator. Mike Turley from Penticton is a mech- ation that includes Gabriele Andretta, Hillgriet Eilers, Jörg anic. Randy Sandburg from Cranbrook is a mechanic. Walter Hillmer, Anja Piel and Uwe Santjer. Chernof from Grand Forks is also a mechanic. Curtis Biech Tey’re here as part of a delegation with the minister pres- from Prince George is a grader operator. Tyson Burge from ident to talk to legislators here about a range of issues, from Powell River is a mechanic. Tey’re joined by Frank Ander- climate action to oil and gas development to how parliament son and Erik Hoibak, who are BCGEU staf members. works in a minority situation and how coalitions can come [10:10 a.m.] together. It’s going to be a great opportunity for us to have We all know the hard work of the people who fx our high- genuine dialogue. ways, who work for the construction contractors. We all rely Also joining us is the new consul general, Mr. Klaus on them to build and rehabilitate and maintain our roads. I Schmidt, who’s a resident now in Vancouver. He will be think everybody will want to welcome them for that. here, again, keeping relationships between our two coun- Also, I know that it’s a wonderful sunny day here in Vic- tries strong. toria, but snow is falling in many parts of the province. I’m Te members from Lower Saxony are delighted to be here sure I speak for many of us in the House who really value the on a sunny Victoria day. Would the House please make them work of all the people in the gallery, all their colleagues and/ very, very welcome. or contractors, in keeping our roads clear and our drivers safe. I would like the House to make them all very welcome. Hon. M. Farnworth: Well, following the Premier’s inter- esting fun fact, I’ve got one myself this morning. Hon. S. Fraser: We’re going to make some history today. In 1967, we emigrated from the U.K. to Canada. At that In the gallery, joining us…. I’m delighted to welcome time, my parents were weighing two employment ofers, guests from the shíshálh Nation visiting us here today one in New Zealand and one in Canada. Tey made the because they’re about to sign a landmark agreement with the decision by fipping a coin. Heads, we go to Canada; tails, province, an agreement that we have worked on in the true we go to New Zealand. So I’ve always had a sof spot for spirit of collaboration and respect. New Zealand. I am honoured to welcome to this House Chief Warren In the gallery today, we are joined by the Hon. Kelvin Dav- Paull, Coun. Selina August, Coun. Corey August, Coun. is, a member of the New Zealand Parliament. Minister Dav- Keith Julius, Coun. Alvina Paul, Jasmine Paul, Roseanne is is here on his frst ofcial visit to British Columbia. He’s Kyle, Larry Fedorkie. I would also like to send my best accompanied by the High Commissioner of New Zealand, wishes to Christopher August, who could not be with us His Excellency Daniel Mellsop, and two staf members. today. He has taken ill, and I know we all wish him well. Te delegation will be meeting with myself and other gov- To all our guests who have joined us today for this historic ernment ministers throughout the day. day in the Legislature, would everyone please make them feel Would the House please make them feel very welcome. so very welcome.

D. Davies: It gives me great pleasure to introduce a friend A. Olsen: Today I’m pleased to stand and introduce some of mine, Brett Kirby, who is visiting us today on some busi- 5462 British Columbia Debates Thursday, October 4, 2018 members of the beautiful Saltspring Island community, in this chamber. He is, of course, the Premier of British members of the Salt Spring Island Chamber of Commerce. Columbia. Li Read is an award-winning real estate agent on Salts- I would ask all members of the House to welcome these pring for over 20 years and has been president of the Salt students from Reynolds Secondary. Spring chamber for the last four years. Deborah Osborne serves on the board of the chamber. She’s a media executive, J. Brar: I’m very pleased to introduce two very special project manager and trainer of Terrier Marketing. In 2016, guests that we have today in the gallery. We have Marvindar she was the recipient of the Crystal Award for mentorship Kaur Chahal. She comes from a town known as Bathinda, of women in flm and television. Murray Nurse served for where I come from originally. She’s visiting, for the frst time, six years on the chamber, and he’s a volunteer at the visitor this country. She’s also joined by Nirmal Nijjar, who is from centre on the island. . She was originally from Winnipeg, where I actu- Tey are here in the House today to discuss workforce ally landed for the frst time when I came from India. I ask housing. I very much look forward to having that conver- the House to please make them feel welcome. sation. Would the members of this House please welcome them here today. N. Simons: Tey’ve been introduced already by the former Minister of Indigenous Relations and by the current G. Begg: It’s a great pleasure for me today to introduce to minister. Tey’re my friends, and they’re from shíshálh, and this House Chris Flood, a former member of the Irish Par- I’m so honoured to be in the House to witness this very his- liament. He was the MP for Dublin South. Chris was elected torical occasion, actually. to parliament in the 1987 general election and retained his Shíshálh was the frst nation to achieve self-government. seat until retiring in the 2002 general election. In February Tey led the way. Tey took some fak for it, but they showed 1991, he was appointed Minister of State for Department of other people around the country what they could do. Tey’ve Health. In June ’97, he was appointed Minister of State for been successful. Tey’ve been integral parts of all of our lives Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation and held that on the Sunshine Coast. Tey’re well loved. I think of the eld- position until his retirement in 2002. Will the House please ers who I knew, who gave me a name, kwémémus, which of join me in making Chris Flood welcome. course means Red Face. It’s just a historic day to have my friends Keith, Alvina, Hon. L. Beare: I have the great pleasure today of introdu- Selina, Warren, Jasmine, Corey and their counsel. It’s a very cing my new executive assistant, Jef Hannah, who is in the exciting day. House with us. He is currently the lesser known of the Han- Tank you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity to welcome nahs in these halls, and I hope that afer today, he’ll be the them. more widely known Hannah. Tank you for joining us. Statements (Standing Order 25B) Please make him feel welcome. FIRE PREVENTION WEEK J. Rustad: I also want to take a moment to welcome the members from shíshálh. It was a tremendous amount of S. Cadieux: Look. Listen. Learn. Be aware. Fires can work that has been done over a number of years, obviously happen anywhere. Tat’s the message fre departments through two governments. I’m just so very pleased to see across Canada are going to promote during Fire Preven- that work come to fruition, and the signing. I look forward tion Week 2018. to the ceremony that’s coming up on Saturday. We welcome Starting Sunday, Fire Prevention Week provides awareness you to the House and thank you for being here today. about the dangers of fre, how to prevent it and how to keep your family safe by having and practising an escape plan. Hon. R. Fleming: In the gallery today is Travis Aylward’s It’s important that our communities engage in Fire Preven- grade 10 class from the great school called Reynolds Sec- tion Week. Unfortunately, we’ve seen a number of devastat- ondary in my riding. As members of this House will know, ing house and apartment fres around B.C. over the last year. because Reynolds students are frequent visitors to the legis- As members of this Legislature and leaders in our com- lative chamber, this is a school with highly engaged students munities, let’s use Fire Prevention Week to bring awareness who do amazing work in the community, working on to the dangers of fre and how best to be prepared. Focus on regional environment projects; an incredible track record of the fundamentals. raising funds for charities like Cops for Cancer; award-win- Look. Te Surrey fre service’s HomeSafe program contin- ning programs, including the near and dear soccer academy ues to remind citizens to look around their home and ensure at Reynolds, a school of excellence. there are no fre risks. Tings like combustible materials [10:15 a.m.] should be kept clear of appliances and heating elements, as Amongst the more notorious achievements of Reynolds the highest percentage of residential fres result from cook- Secondary is, of course, the former class president who sits ing. It seems simple. Thursday, October 4, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5463

Listen. Listen to your smoke alarms. Make sure that raine lef an enduring legacy during a period of rapid expan- they’re there and that they’re working. Working smoke sion in the community. alarms save lives. Te Surrey smoke alarm campaign has Lorraine touched the lives of so many, both within and improved the number of working smoke alarms found in beyond the community’s borders. Words cannot fully residential fres by 116 percent, and it has decreased the fre express the sadness and deep sense of loss of the community death rate by 53 percent. It works. of Sicamous. Lorraine was an extremely thoughtful, kind Learn. Learn how to keep your home safe from fre. Help and caring individual and beloved billet mom for close to with this is available in my community to Surrey residents 20 years, supporting the hockey dreams of over 100 Sicam- through the HomeSafe and free smoke alarm installation ous Eagles Junior B hockey players by providing meals, rides, programs. It’s not difcult, but it matters. comfort, caring, motherly advice and, on occasion, some I’d like to thank all the frefghters and frst responders frm discipline when needed. who work hard to keep our communities safe. Your courage Born on April 13, 1948, Lorraine is survived by her best and public service do not go unnoticed. friend and loving husband, Wayne; her son, Steven; her daughter, Kimberly Brant; and loving grandchildren. HOMELESSNESS ACTION WEEK I heard many years ago a wise saying that I believe is so ftting of Lorraine — that in this life, “it matters little the M. Elmore: Next week is Homelessness Action Week in amount of money you accumulate, the size of the home you British Columbia. Since 2006, communities throughout B.C. live in or the value of the car you drive, but the true measure have taken action during this week to help increase aware- of the success of one’s life is that you’re able to make a dif- ness of the challenges of homelessness and work to fnd local ference in the life of a child.” On this measure, Lorraine was solutions. rich beyond means and truly made a signifcant impact on More and more we hear about the crises that people in the lives of many. our province are facing, from precarious housing to rising To my friend Wayne, I am so sorry for your loss and only costs to tent cities. Year afer year we’re seeing increases in hope that you fnd comfort in knowing how truly loved and the number of people who are experiencing homelessness. respected Lorraine was by so many. Tese challenges are real and shouldn’t be happening in a province as wealthy as ours. DIVERSECITY COMMUNITY RESOURCES [10:20 a.m.] SOCIETY IN SURREY Homelessness afects all of us as British Columbians, and the need to take action also rests with all of us. Tat’s why, R. Singh: Two weeks back I, along with my colleagues, increasingly, the province is partnering with local govern- had the opportunity to attend the 40-year celebration of an ments, Indigenous communities, non-proft groups, busi- organization that has been, since 1978, working tirelessly for ness and individuals to build solutions. Tis is key. We must the communities in and around Surrey. DIVERSEcity is a work together and take swif action to address the root not-for-proft organization that has, for years, been a cent- causes of homelessness in B.C. ring institution around which many newcomers have foun- During Homelessness Action Week, I encourage members ded their lives and gone on to become thriving Canadians. of this House and all British Columbians to get involved. See Teir services range from settlement and community pro- what local events are being held in your community. Lend grams to language training to employment services, and they a hand at a local soup kitchen or shelter. As individuals and even provide programs for children and youth. Teir pro- as a society we have a responsibility to each other, and if we grams continue to expand and change to refect the unique work together, we can all be part of the solution and make needs of the diverse community they continue to serve with life better for everyone in our province. passion and dedication. Teir mission is to “build and strengthen diverse com- LORRAINE MARCH munities by delivering the broadest range of services that embrace cultural inclusiveness and that celebrate the G. Kyllo: It is with a great sense of loss that I rise in the strengths found in our diferences.” Tose, Mr. Speaker, for House today to pay tribute to the life of Lorraine March, who me, are the kind of guiding principles and objectives that passed away last Saturday at her home in Sicamous, surroun- build healthy and prosperous communities, where everyone ded by the love of her family and friends. — whatever one’s ethnicity, gender, faith; whatever one’s A resident of Sicamous for 34 years, Lorraine was passion- story or journey — is welcome. ate about her community and was active in many roles — as I hope you and the rest of the House and all present will a reporter and editor of the Eagle Valley News, past president join me in congratulating DIVERSEcity for 40 years of excel- of the Eagle Valley Arts Council, past board director of the lent service to the community. Columbia-Shuswap regional district and past director and president of the Sicamous Eagles Junior B Hockey society. As mayor of the district of Sicamous from 2005 to 2008, Lor- 5464 British Columbia Debates Thursday, October 4, 2018

SAANICH PENINSULA AND watch legislative frameworks placed upon their bodies and GULF ISLANDS HOUSING ISSUES reproductive rights by parliaments made up predominantly of male legislators. A. Olsen: It’s been more than 16 months since the 2017 How many of our mothers and grandmothers had to fght election. In some respects, I’m fnally feeling like I’m not a for the right to even be seen as a person — to vote, to own foreigner in parts of my riding. property, to hold ofce, to have or keep a job or decide to [10:25 a.m.] leave a marriage? “Can’t she take a joke?” She learns to laugh Despite living my entire life in Saanich North and the it of. “Oh, boys will be boys,” they say. She learns to let it go. Islands and regularly visiting my Gulf Island relatives, I did How many of us have stories we would rather not tell not have the beneft of truly understanding the communities of treatment by men who normalize behaviour that should of the Salish Sea. Tese complex communities are beautiful, never be seen as normal or perhaps even being a tool of our creative, vibrant and unique. It’s what draws us to them. own oppression as we, too, normalize behaviour that should Unpacking the social, economic and cultural intricacies never be seen as normal? of the Gulf Islands has not been easy, and we’ve still only How many of us watch Dr. Ford in quiet or vocal admira- scratched the surface. Te decisions that governments make tion, grateful for a boundless courage that flls the vacuum of are amplifed on the Gulf Islands, and it has certainly been our own silence in a time where so many women have come true for issues like the speculation tax, short-term vacation forward only to be dismissed, with no wonder why so many rentals and fxed-term leases. Today I’m having lunch with others have still not yet found the time or space or way, who the leadership of the Salt Spring Island Chamber of Com- are now just fnding a moment to turn to their sisters and say merce, and we are continuing our conversation about how in breathless whisper: “Me too.” the housing shortage is afecting business in the community. Workforce housing has been an ongoing concern on the Oral Questions Saanich Peninsula since at least the 2008 election. It was a ballot box question then, and it’s still a ballot box question DEBATE ON LNG CANADA PROJECT ten years later. Workforce housing on Saltspring is also a IN LEGISLATURE growing challenge and is afecting quality of life on the island. A. Wilkinson: It’s a fairly rare occasion when question To give an indication of what we’re facing on Saltspring, I period is the source of near unanimous applause. But this met with a business owner who, for the frst 30 minutes of week we had a positive fnal investment decision, and that the meeting, was strongly advocating for the strict regulation was made on the largest industrial project in Canadian his- of short-term vacation rentals. Tey cannot staf their busi- tory, which will come to fruition right here in British ness because their staf cannot fnd housing. But the conver- Columbia. sation changed when I asked who their customers were and [10:30 a.m.] where they stay. Te business relies mainly on tourists who Almost everyone in this House agrees on the benefts of stay in short-term vacation rentals. this project and that this is in the public interest, but it also It’s just one example of the challenges and why conversa- calls for some transparency and some accountability. We tions like the one we’re having today with the chamber and heard yesterday, in the media, that the Premier has decided other groups — the community services and the upcoming that in terms of disclosing the nature of this $40 billion discussion with Salt Spring Solutions — are so critical. transaction to the people of British Columbia, there’s no Despite the lack of certainty in so many areas, one thing is apparent need to bring it before the Legislature, which raises certain. Tere are incredible people taking the struggle head- the question: why do we have a legislature? on, and for that, I am grateful. I raise my hands to the efort Te Premier says he may or may not do that, in a fairly and look forward to continuing to work alongside you. capricious exercise of executive power in a skin-of-its- teeth minority government. Why is the Premier reluctant EXPERIENCES OF WOMEN to show the details of the LNG Canada deal to the elected AND ME TOO CAMPAIGN members of this assembly when 90 percent of the House are frm supporters? B. Ma: I believe Dr. Christine Blasey Ford. I believe it, because there’s nothing here that is difcult to believe. It is Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for his question. Had the story of so many women, afer all — so many women he been paying attention in March when we laid out our fsc- who know what it feels like to be judged by their appearance, al framework for LNG, he would know exactly what we’ve to be underestimated, seen as lesser, to be touched without done and exactly what was agreed to and why we have a $40 consent, to feel pressured or coerced, assigned value to their billion investment in northern British Columbia. being for attributes that should never be used to defne any- Unlike the previous government, we assume that indus- one, to be shamed for being sexy yet criticized for being tries, when they come to British Columbia — whether they uptight, to feel unsafe walking home alone late at night, to be in the gas sector, whether they be in the forest sector, Thursday, October 4, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5465

whether they be in the mining sector — and when they’re A. Wilkinson: I think the pattern is starting to emerge: purchasing electricity from our Crown utility, would pay the the biggest transaction in Canadian history, entirely with- same industrial rate. Tat’s what we’ve done. It’s very trans- in British Columbia, taking British Columbia gas to tide- parent, and the member should have known that. water for export, and the government of the day, hanging Te approach on the other side was to say that this par- on by the skin of its teeth, doesn’t want it brought into this ticular company, this particular sector, would pay more than House. Tere is overwhelming support in this House for a anyone else in British Columbia for electricity. We rejected good deal on LNG. that. We’ve done that. We talked about it in March. I’m happy What is the Premier hiding? Why is he reluctant to bring it to talk about it again today. before the House? What is the accountability to this House, or is this an executive Premier who has decided that he is Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Ofcial Opposition on a above the law created by this House? supplemental. [10:35 a.m.]

A. Wilkinson: It sounds as if the Premier is prepared to Hon. J. Horgan: One level of accountability that springs play one-card Monte and show the deck one card at a time, to mind immediately is that we’re having a fall session of the unlike proportional representation, where he has completely Legislature to have these very discussions. Again, if there’s a stacked the deck. requirement for legislation to implement this, the legislation Now, we should…. will come before this House. Tere’ll be full and compre- hensive debate, and we will proceed with the largest private Interjections. sector investment in Canadian history.

Mr. Speaker: Members, if we may hear the question. COMMUNITY BENEFITS AGREEMENT Tank you. AND WORKERS

A. Wilkinson: We should review a bit of the history of this T. Stone: Restricting employment on public projects in matter. Back in 2015, today’s Minister of Environment said: British Columbia to NDP-approved unions is just not right. “It’ll be hard enough to meet our legislated greenhouse gas LMS Reinforcing Steel regularly performs work on public emissions targets. With LNG, it’ll be virtually impossible.” At transportation projects just like those that the Minister of that time, the now Minister of Energy had the wisdom to say Transportation has made NDP-union exclusive. LMS Rein- that this is the biggest sellout in British Columbia and that forcing Steel doesn’t want their employees blackmailed by this isn’t good for anybody in this province. this minister into joining one of the 19 NDP-approved uni- It’s apparent that there has either been a dramatic change ons. In fact, the company can’t bid on these public projects. of heart on the government benches, and perhaps the Green To the Minister of Transportation, why is she discriminat- Party is kind of falling in line as well. Or perhaps the Premier ing against this highly qualifed company and, more import- can explain: why doesn’t he bring these matters before the antly, against their employees? House? Perhaps it’s because some of his ministers would be inclined to leave the room. Hon. J. Horgan: Well, the former minister is fatly wrong. Any company in British Columbia can bid on any project. Hon. J. Horgan: It’s extraordinary that the Leader of the Tat has always been the case. It will always be the case. Opposition’s charity lasted about 35 seconds. Nonetheless, Te challenge we have in British Columbia is we have he did demonstrate some earlier today, and the laugh line a red-hot economy now. We have a $40 billion investment was pretty good as well, so I’ll give him full marks for that. that was announced earlier this week. We are going to need Look, we’ve worked diligently since we came to govern- skilled people to do the work. Wherever I go, I talk to ment to ensure that we could land a signifcant investment employers, and they say: “I can’t fnd enough people to keep decision that will beneft British Columbians right across the my business going. I can’t fnd enough people to expand my north and, in fact, in every corner of the province. I would business.” have thought that would been a time for celebration. Indeed, I would have thought that the people on that side of the it is a time for celebration. House would have read some of the material that was pres- Are there challenges? Of course there are. Te focus of ented to them over the years in government. One example is our government is going to be to make sure that we address a report that they commissioned in 2014. Te fundamental those challenges. We have tabled targets for GHG reductions fnding in that was the following: “Te government should for 2030 and 2050, and we’re going to meet those targets. consider having a minimum number of apprenticeships on public infrastructure projects because we don’t have enough Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Ofcial Opposition on a skilled workers in British Columbia.” second supplemental. So what did that side of the House do? Tey ignored it. Tey ignored it. Tey ignored it. 5466 British Columbia Debates Thursday, October 4, 2018

Interjections. LNG CANADA PROJECT AND JOBS

Mr. Speaker: Members, we shall hear the response. A. Olsen: I wonder how LMS Reinforcing Steel feels about the federal government exempting LNG Canada Hon. J. Horgan: We believe community benefts agree- from steel tarifs. ments will train the next generation of workers and make Anyway, three years ago Premier Horgan said: “…the sure that local people get hired and local businesses can people of British Columbia should see the primary beneft bid. We are going to see prosperity in every corner of the from an LNG industry” and “We need to make sure that jobs province, not just the top 2 percent, which is the people that go to British Columbians….” He’s quoted in Hansard as say- they report to. ing that if 70 percent of those 100,000 jobs were going to come from somewhere else, one has to pause and ask why we Mr. Speaker: Te member for Kamloops–South Tomp- have been putting so much energy into doing something if son on a supplemental. it’s for somebody else. According to the B.C. NDP’s LNG framework from earlier T. Stone: News fash — it’s not just the 19 approved NDP this week, LNG Canada will create 10,000 jobs during con- unions that do training in this province. Tere are thousands struction and 950 permanent jobs once operations are of British Columbians trained every single year by organ- underway. On LNG Canada’s website, it states that they’re izations other than the 19 NDP-approved unions. Simply not hiring employees directly during construction. Instead, put, restricting employment to less than 15 percent of the they’re hiring a prime contractor who will hire implementa- workforce cuts out thousands of qualifed workers, like the tion contractors who will hire subcontractors. Te latter two employees of LMS Reinforcing Steel. will hire workers. LMS happens to be the largest employer of female iron- To the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum workers in British Columbia. Tey’re based in Surrey, and Resources, LNG Canada has committed to helping local they work on big projects like the Golden Ears Bridge. Te residents take advantage of employment opportunities, only problem, Mr. Premier, is that their workers are mem- but they will not be the ones hiring workers. How many of bers of the Canadian Iron, Steel and Industrial Workers Uni- the LNG employment opportunities can be guaranteed to on, which is not one of the 19 NDP-approved unions. go to British Columbians, and how many will go to tem- Tis NDP requirement is ofensive and discriminatory. To porary foreign workers? the Minister of Transportation, can she please explain to the employees of LMS Reinforcing Steel how they beneft from Hon. M. Mungall: I understand why the member would this NDP-approved union-only policy, and how does the be concerned about who is getting these jobs, because the company beneft as well? previous government, when they were in charge of this fle, were signing blank cheques. Tey were letting pro- Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I don’t know why, afer 16 years in jects go forward without any commitment for local hire. government, the people on the other side didn’t read some When we became government, we were adamant that we of the material that came their way. When we were looking had four conditions. at trying to make sure that apprentices had on-the-job train- ing, they failed year afer year. Interjections. As recently as 2014, they received the following report. Some…. Mr. Speaker: Members, may we please hear the response. Tank you. Interjections. Hon. M. Mungall: One of those conditions was that jobs Hon. J. Horgan: Do you want to hear it, hon. Speaker? have to go to British Columbians, frst and foremost, and we What I’ll do is I’ll mimeograph this. have to see training opportunities in the construction phase as well as throughout the permanent jobs. LNG Canada has Interjections. committed, and they have signed contracts with their con- tractors, that there’s a local-hire-frst policy. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just as an example, they have contractually required their [10:40 a.m.] engineering and procurement company to follow this policy, and that is across the board. Tey have signed 20 impact- Hon. J. Horgan: I’ll use some old technology and send it and-beneft agreements with First Nations. First Nations will over to them by fax machine, because that’s the generation be at the front of the line for these jobs. What does that they’re living in. mean? Tat means prosperity and benefts to the north, from We need to train the next generation of workers so that well to tidewater. there can be prosperity in every corner of British Columbia. Thursday, October 4, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5467

Mr. Speaker: Te member for Saanich North and the can get work and be a part of their community, that’s a good Islands on a supplemental. thing for British Columbia.

A. Olsen: Actually, the minister’s reading of my concern COMMUNITY BENEFITS AGREEMENT is misplaced. I’m concerned that the program on this side of AND WORKERS the House is looking very much like the program from that side of the House. G. Kyllo: All qualifed workers and companies in British Te idea of having conditions associated with develop- Columbia should get a chance to build public projects ment isn’t a new idea. Former Premier Christy Clark’s fve without being forced to join highly-partisan NDP unions. conditions were ofen used to obfuscate her government’s Michele of Maddocks Construction writes: “Tis agreement position on the Trans Mountain pipeline. undermines the role of employers, both union and open- I think it’s critical, if the NDP are choosing to use a shop, in order to artifcially bolster the power of a select few.” similar tactic of having conditions, that these conditions Does the minister really think that it’s okay to discrimin- should be shown to be substantive and actually mean ate against hard-working family businesses in order to pay something. One of the NDP’s four conditions, as the min- of political favours? ister highlighted, for LNG development is that it creates jobs for British Columbians. Hon. C. Trevena: Te opposition clearly doesn’t listen. My question is for the Minister of Energy, Mines and We’ve been talking about this all week. We’ve been talking Petroleum Resources. We know that LNG Canada will be about this since July. Tis community benefts agreement is using contractors to conduct most of the hiring. What spe- open to any contractor who wishes to bid. Any contractor cifc — I repeat: what specifc — oversight systems has this who wishes to bid. government put in place to ensure that jobs on this project I’ve got to say I fnd it really disappointing that the opposi- are not simply given out to temporary foreign workers but tion has given up on the people of British Columbia, because that British Columbians are actually the people benefting that’s clearly what they’ve done. from this project? We have — the Premier just cited — known for years there [10:45 a.m.] is a skills shortage. Community beneft agreements allow us to deal with that skill shortage. Tey allow us to build up Hon. M. Mungall: One of the things that we wanted to public projects that have apprenticeships, allow women and see was not just words but actions. We not only saw LNG Indigenous people to work, and increase those numbers of Canada’s commitment to a local-hire-frst policy in writing apprenticeships. with their contractors, but they’ve already invested $2.85 I’ve got to say I’m extremely excited about this. I think this million on workforce development in the north. So they’re is a wonderful opportunity for everyone — that anyone, any already investing in people in the north. contractor, can work on this, and that we have…. Just to give you a sense of what this means for people in the north. I represent small communities. When we gain six Interjections. full-time, family-supporting jobs in our communities, we’re ecstatic. When we lose those jobs, we’re disappointed, so Hon. C. Trevena: I’ll sit down. can you imagine what 950 means? It’s exactly why Mayor Phil Germuth from Kitimat was ecstatic and was smiling ear Mr. Speaker: Te member for Shuswap on a supplement- to ear on Tuesday morning when LNG Canada made their al. announcement. It’s not just mayors from well to tidewater or First Nations G. Kyllo: I take the minister’s comments as extremely communities from well to tidewater who are happy about ofensive, and it truly shows her lack of understanding of the this. way the labour laws in this province actually work. Let me tell you what Kristi Leer has said about this. She’s Companies across British Columbia that may choose to a young woman. She doesn’t hold any formal position oth- already have agreements in collective bargaining with other er than that she needs to work for a living, and she’s from unions are precluded from actually quoting on these projects Fort Nelson. She had to leave Fort Nelson because she because the NDP have handpicked a select few unions, and couldn’t get a job there. Te economy in that community if you’re not a member of those specifc unions, you do not has been depressed as a result of a downturn in natural gas have an opportunity to work on these projects in British in past years. Columbia. Tere should be no discrimination when it comes Well, this is what she said about LNG Canada’s announce- to which British Columbian companies get the opportunity ment: “It’s huge. My town has just been saved.” And Kristi to build public projects in B.C. is on her way back to Fort Nelson so that she can get a job. [10:50 a.m.] When people like Kristi are heading back home so that they Maddocks Construction is a B.C. company that has been 5468 British Columbia Debates Thursday, October 4, 2018 around since 1965. Tey pay their taxes and their employees, when we invest in community benefts, we’re investing in and they’re hard-working British Columbians. communities, in people, in infrastructure and in the future Again to the minister, why is settling political debts with of British Columbia. their union allies more important to this minister than the rights of Michele and the employees of Maddocks Con- SOFTWOOD LUMBER NEGOTIATIONS struction? AND TRADE WITH U.S.

Hon. C. Trevena: Mr. Speaker, I’ve got to say that I fnd J. Rustad: Beyond LNG, there was more good news this it ofensive to be lectured by an opposition whose history on week for Canada, as we have reached a replacement trade labour relations is so ofensive. For 16 years, they ignored agreement with the United States and Mexico. Te federal labour relations, they tore up contracts, and they worked for government spoke at length about standing up to the U.S. on their own friends and insiders. social values in Quebec, the auto sector in Ontario and even We are working on behalf of the people of British the oil and gas interests in Alberta. Columbia. Te member is wrong. Any contractor can bid, Sofwood lumber is critical to British Columbia and whether they are union or non-union, and people…. an important export industry to Canada, yet despite this, there wasn’t even a mention of sofwood lumber by the Interjections. federal government. Clearly, B.C.’s interests were not front and centre on Canada’s national agenda. Tere has been Mr. Speaker: Members. a failure of leadership by this government to support our forest communities and workers who are faced with pun- Hon. C. Trevena: Te members obviously don’t want to ishing U.S. duties. hear the answers. Why has the Minister of State for Trade let down the forest-dependent families and communities that depend on Interjections. sofwood lumber trade?

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. J. Horgan: Either the member on the other side thinks this is a serious issue, or he doesn’t. Te frst order Hon. C. Trevena: I mean, I sat down the last time. of business when we were sworn in as government was that Nobody actually really cares about the answer. None of the I travelled to Washington to raise our concerns about sof- opposition care about the answer. wood lumber. Te minister responsible for forestry has been diligently working with COFI and other providers here in Interjections. British Columbia. We’ve been working with the ambassador in Washington. Mr. Speaker: Minister, if you would take your seat for a [10:55 a.m.] moment. I would have thought that the members on that side of the Members, if we may hear the response. Tank you. House would have known that sofwood lumber has never been part of NAFTA, nor was it ever contemplated to be part Hon. C. Trevena: We are not shy about the fact that yes, of NAFTA. the community beneft agreements will be open to both uni- We continue at every opportunity to raise with the federal on and non-union contractors. It will be a union worksite, government, to raise with those in the United States who at which people are expected to join the union if they work are blocking free fow of access to sofwood lumber…. Tat’s there 30 days. We’re very pleased about that. Union worksites having a negative impact, I would argue, on the U.S. con- provide great benefts to people. sumer, who’s paying more now as a result of those tarifs. I don’t know who they’re listening to, but the people that I welcome the intervention from the member on the I’m listening to are very excited about our community bene- other side. I appreciate he understands, coming from a fts agreements. forest-dependent community, how critical this is to British I’d like to quote Ashley Duncan, who is an insulator from Columbia. But to mock and ridicule the eforts of suc- Coquitlam. She said: “When you’re a construction appren- cessive governments to try and knock some sense into the tice, it’s difcult to fnd a job, and it’s even worse for women United States is unhelpful. I thought that we were working apprentices. Tat’s one of the reasons we have trouble retain- together on this. ing women in trades. A community benefts agreement is a game-changer. Under a community benefts agreement, Mr. Speaker: Te member for Nechako Lakes on a sup- apprentices, tradeswomen and Indigenous workers will plemental. fnally have the same opportunities as everyone else.” We are working on behalf of Ashley. We’re working on J. Rustad: I fnd it interesting. I thank the Premier for his behalf of every single person in this province to ensure that response. Te Auto Pact wasn’t part of NAFTA either, yet Thursday, October 4, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5469 that was a focus of the Canadian government in those dis- Orders of the Day cussions with the Americans. Why was sofwood lumber not on the agenda? It’s pretty clear it did not make it to the stage Hon. M. Farnworth: I call committee stage continuation because it has not been raised by this government for a long on Bill 36, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act. period of time. B.C. represents more than 50 percent of the Canadian A. Weaver: I seek leave to make an introduction. exports to the United States. It is the government’s respons- ibility to fght for those interests in Ottawa, not just make Mr. Speaker: Proceed. excuses. Te reality that we’re facing on the ground is that these punishing duties have been in place for many months. Introductions by Members Now lumber prices have dropped down by 33 percent just in the last fve months alone. Concern is rising, and this gov- A. Weaver: I just ran out in the hallway to talk with the ernment has done nothing. students who were up there in the audience witnessing ques- What is this Minister of State for Trade going to do to step tion period. Tis is a group of 25 students who came here up and actually deliver — or perhaps the Premier can answer from Willows Elementary, a fne school in my riding with a this — on the promises that he made over a year ago? rich history and tradition. Tey were accompanied by their teacher, Penny-Jane Peters, and a number of parent chap- Hon. J. Horgan: On the road to Damascus, yet another erones. Would the House please make them feel welcome, conversion. A hundred and ffy sawmills closed on the because they will be watching this later on TV. watch of the people on that side, 150 mills. Forty thousand jobs evaporated on your watch, and you have the audacity Committee of the Whole House to come in here and say that because we’re dealing with an intransigent U.S. administration that every ten years brings BILL 36 — MISCELLANEOUS STATUTES forward a sofwood dispute…. It’s as if they thought this just AMENDMENT ACT (No. 3), 2018 happened yesterday. (continued) Where was that government when the last agreement failed? Where was that government when all the jobs were Te House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on feeing out of British Columbia? Tey were sitting on their Bill 36; L. Reid in the chair. hands waiting for a real estate bubble to pay everybody of. Te committee met at 11:03 a.m. D. Barnett: Last year the Premier said: “I’m going to directly involve myself in the sofwood lumber negoti- On section 1 (continued). ations and make sure that we get a deal.” Tere are 140 communities that rely on the forest sector in our province, A. Weaver: Yesterday we lef of with a question that the including my own. minister had suggested she would be able to provide the My question to the Minister of State for Trade: where is answer for: the question I had asked as to what other the deal that the Premier promised? provinces in our country have boards that are comprised of more order-in-council appointments than those elected by Hon. J. Horgan: Te member asked when the Premier or participating in the institutions. I’m hoping she has the was going to get directly involved on the sofwood lumber answer this morning to share with us. dispute. It was on the frst day that I was sworn in. Tat’s [11:05 a.m.] when I got involved. Te former occupant of this ofce did not go to Washington, did not meet with the Secretary of Hon. M. Mark: Tank you to the member for the ques- Commerce, did not meet with the trade ambassador, did tion. Tere are a few examples in other provinces where, not meet with the Canadian Ambassador in Washington — like British Columbia, LGIC appointees have a majority over instead, kept cash and cheques from developers, as the prop- non-appointed members. But across the country, the num- erty values went up. ber of government appointees to university boards generally You can’t run an economy on a housing bubble. You need do not exceed the number of non-appointed members. For resource-dependent communities. And while that member example, the University of Manitoba has 12 appointed mem- saw mills closing in her community, I was hopeful she might bers, three of which must be students, and 11 non-appointed have talked to the former Premier about doing something members. At Memorial University of Newfoundland, they about it. I guess she didn’t have the time. have a majority of 21 appointed members, four of whom are [11:00 a.m.] students, and nine are non-appointed members.

[End of question period.] A. Weaver: I appreciate the very few examples that exist. It’s interesting to note in those examples that exist that the 5470 British Columbia Debates Thursday, October 4, 2018 appointed members are, indeed, also comprising students. minister, is elected by the board. Te government appoints So British Columbia is rather unique in the number. As the the majority in British Columbia on all boards of colleges, minister pointed out yesterday, in the colleges act there is a Royal Roads and universities. board made up of one elected faculty member, two elected Does the minister believe that there’s a potential confict students, one staf elected, one president, one chair of the of governance if it is the government, ultimately, through its education council and at least eight appointments through appointments that, in dominance in all of the boards, actu- order-in-council. ally determines the voice of an institution? Tis is unique in My question to the minister is: does she believe that stu- British Columbia, unlike any other province in our nation dents are in a confict of interest if they are on a board, in — that the government appointees make up dominance of light of the fact that it is the board that determines tuition fee the boards, who then select the chancellor, who is the public increases, yes or no? institution. Tis is why we’ve had scandal afer scandal in British Columbia, most recently at the University of British Hon. M. Mark: Te response is no, but there are bylaws Columbia and also UNBC, with respect to appointments. and measures in place to address any confict of interest. My question to the minister is this. Is she concerned that Again, through the board, there are some institutions where the confict of interest that actually arises in the appointment students are allowed to participate in the room; there are of the boards in British Columbia is not through the elected institutions where they’re not. But the test of confict of people who are on the board but rather by the potential interest is always being measured. Again, the law, the act, for government to infuence the academic governance of a states to act in the best interests of the institutions. board by stacking the boards with their party elite? Does this concern the minister at all? And the subsequent question: is A. Weaver: Every college and every university in the this an issue that she believes could lead to confict of interest province has students on its boards. Tose students are elec- with government? ted, and those students are governed by confict-of-interest proceedings and regulations, as outlined by the minister. So Hon. M. Mark: I do agree with the member that elected I very much appreciate that answer. members are not in a confict. However, the broader dis- In the same vein, of the staf and faculty that are on all cussion of an appointment of a chancellor is, with all due boards, everyone, as is noted by the minister, is elected. Te respect, out of the scope of the discussion today with the question I then have is: how are order-in-council appoint- amendments that we have on the foor. I am happy to dis- ments made? Who actually makes those appointments? cuss the bigger picture of the amendments, which I am aware — which the member opposite has raised — need to Hon. M. Mark: Orders-in-council are approved by cab- be changed. inet at the recommendation of the minister. As the member I’ve heard from other stakeholders what areas might need knows, there are hundreds if not thousands of appointments to be changed under the University Act or under the College that are made across all ministries throughout government. and Institute Act, but with respect to what is on the foor today, we are proposing amendments to section 59, part (8) A. Weaver: On these boards, some of the institutions…. about the eligibility of appointed members to the board that We’ve had some leeway in these discussions, because sec- are elected faculty or staf. tions 1 to 3 are virtually identical in scope. Tey just apply to three diferent things: College and Institute Act, Royal Roads A. Weaver: I’m fne with that answer, actually. I’ll come Act and University Act. Te ofcial opposition and I have back to that. I have two more questions. been a little loose across the references, but it’s all bearing on [11:15 a.m.] the same theme. Te frst question to the minister is this: to what extent do My question is: how is a chancellor appointed at a uni- these proposals confict or agree with similar legislation that versity, and how does a board appoint a chancellor? exists in every other province across this nation? [11:10 a.m.] Hon. M. Mark: Te only other province that has similar Hon. M. Mark: Tank you for the question. Under the legislation currently is Alberta. Trough these amendments, University Act, “chancellor,”defned under section 11, part 5: the only province that will have those rules in efect will be “Tere must be a chancellor of each university, who is to be Alberta. So we will be bringing ourselves in line with every appointed by the board on nomination by the alumni asso- other province in Canada. ciation and afer consultation with the senate or, in the case of the University of British Columbia, afer consultation with A. Weaver: Tat concludes my line of questioning, and the council.” I very much appreciate the response from the minister and her staf. A. Weaver: Te chancellor is the public face and the rep- To summarize what has happened here is that we’ve real- resentative of an institution. Te chancellor, as noted by the ized and had a full discussion as to the makeup of these Thursday, October 4, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5471 boards, how there are certain elected members, which is Te Chair: Minister of Health. comparative to other provinces. In fact, where we difer is we [11:20 a.m.] have so many order-in-council appointments here, whereas they have the majority on each and every board. Hon. A. Dix: It’s on section 5 that the member has ques- I appreciate that the minister pointed out that this is not tions. With the consent of the House, I think it would be the subject of today. But what I’ve tried to point out through reasonable just to return to section 5 to allow the member to this line of questions is that the amendments that are put ask his questions. forward here are not actually controversial. Tey’re in place already across the nation in virtually every other province On section 5. except Alberta. Alberta is also quite diferent from B.C., because in I. Paton: Tank you to the Minister of Health for making Alberta, they do not have order-in-council appointments this exception for me. dominating the boards. So B.C. really is an outlier in this. We Based on the comments of the Attorney General, I’m have, I would suggest…. reading into this Milk Industry Act…. Under the miscel- I’d like to discuss this further with the minister, and I laneous statutes amendments: “Te amendments to the Milk look forward to those discussions. If there is any confict of Industry Act modernize the defnition of ‘dairy plant’ by interest in the boards, it’s not with the elected students. It’s eliminating the outdated and archaic parts of this defnition not with the elected faculty. It’s not with the elected staf. and creating a new authority to exempt, by regulation, places It’s actually with the order-in-council appointments wherein or activities from the defnition of ‘dairy plant.’ Tis will government can actually have its agenda imposed on an eliminate unnecessary regulatory burden, as requested by institution by appointing the board, both in terms of the the restaurant industry, without compromising food safety.” selection of the chancellor, who is the public face, as well as It goes on to quickly say: “Te exemption authority will be the governance within the programs in the institution. used to develop a future regulation that will identify places Tat is very dangerous in a democratic society, where or activities where dairy products can be manufactured we rely on the free exchange of ideas, and British without a dairy plant licence.” Columbia is unique. We’re amending the term of the wording “dairy plant,”and I support this section wholeheartedly, as somebody who I’m just wondering if we could frst defne the terminology of spent a lifetime in universities, as somebody who served as a dairy plant and why we are making this amendment change chief negotiator for the faculty association, as somebody who to eliminate the term of dairy plant to certain businesses and couldn’t do that and be on the board — because there’s no restaurants, etc. time — as someone who supports the electoral process that puts students, faculty and staf on the boards, as someone Hon. L. Popham: Tanks to the member for Delta South who supports the governance of institutions in a free and for the question. I’m glad we didn’t skip past it, because we’ve democratic society. both been waiting hours to do this. I actually have very real problems with what is happening, I’d like to introduce my staf who are joining me here again, in British Columbia, the Wild West, where order- today. Wes Shoemaker is my deputy minister, and Arlene in-council appointments dominate boards, potentially lead- Anderson is the manager of policy and legislation at the ing to — and in some cases, demonstrably leading to — Ministry of Agriculture. decisions being made that are government-related that actu- It’s a great question. Te defnition of “dairy plant” basic- ally impinge upon the academic freedom of an institution. ally defnes a place where milk is processed. What this legis- With that, I thank the minister and her staf for the atten- lation would do is exempt restaurants. Tere would be an tion to the questions that I put forward. exemption for restaurants so that restaurants would be able to process milk products on location in their premise Sections 1 to 4 inclusive approved. without having to do the paperwork to become a dairy plant. So they would have an exemption of a small space in their Te Chair: Shall section 5 pass? kitchen, and they would be able to make products like yogurt or paneer to be served specifcally in the restaurant, not for Some Voices: Aye. retail or resale in their restaurant to the public as a stand- alone good. Te Chair: So ordered. I. Paton: Tank you for that answer. We’re not going to I. Paton: Can I speak to section 5, or has it passed? You take a whole lot of time here. I’d just like to say for the record caught me of guard. that I’ve milked a few cows in my life. It’s okay. A small amendment. No need to speak. Tank [11:25 a.m.] you. My grandfather shipped milk to a dairy plant called Palm 5472 British Columbia Debates Thursday, October 4, 2018

Dairies, and my father as well. I shipped my milk to Fore- of the milk. I just wanted to say on record, also, that cur- most and Lucerne before the end of that part of my life. rently raw milk is illegal for sale in British Columbia. One thing I learned about on a dairy farm, such as my own dairy farm, was inspectors. Te Ministry of Agriculture I. Paton: Just two more questions. By adding in subsection had very thorough inspections of our dairy farms. Tey (y) and (z), there’s some terminology that I’m not quite would go through my milking facilities. Tey would go familiar with, “a class of places” and “a class of persons.” through the dairy where the milk was received. It went into Based on the amendment to the Milk Industry Act, can you receiver jars. It got pumped from there into the main bulk explain to the House the terms “a class of places or buildings” tank. Tey would take apart every connection and flter to or “a class of persons”? see if any sort of bacteria was building up. [11:30 a.m.] My biggest issue with the term “dairy plant” is the fact that inspectors were always there, as part of the terminology of Hon. L. Popham: Te addition of these defnitions is “dairy plant,” to inspect any facility that is considered a dairy really put in to reduce the regulatory burden that may be the plant for the very perishable product of milk. We all know case if we don’t make these changes. that with milk, if it’s not held at the right temperature or not If you were to refer to “a place or building,” it would properly looked afer, there are several milk-borne diseases be more specifc to an individual restaurant address. So that can afect our population. it could be John’s Place. But if you change that to “class My biggest concern is the inspection. If we take away the of places or buildings,” we can talk about the restaurant licensing and permitting of restaurants and facilities that industry or restaurants. were making use of these milk products, will there be proper As well, when we go down to “persons,” changing it to “a inspection from the Ministry of Agriculture or the Ministry class of persons”…. It would be not just specifcally Joe who of Health to make sure, now that they are no longer con- works in a restaurant, but it would be people who work in sidered a dairy plant, that they will also be inspected to make restaurants. sure of the cleanliness, proper use and proper temperature of milk products? I. Paton: I think one fnal question. We do have associ- ations within British Columbia, the B.C. Dairy Association Hon. L. Popham: Tat’s a great question, because I think and the B.C. Milk Marketing Board. I’m just wondering if we’re all concerned about health and safety. So that it’s very your staf had contacted them to discuss this small amend- clear: restaurants are inspected regularly by regional health ment change to the defnition of “dairy plant” and if they authority staf, and this will continue. Staf will apply the have had any comments back to you from those two asso- same food safety principles for overseeing the making of ciations. dairy products as are applied to other aspects of food prepar- ation and service within the restaurant. Hon. L. Popham: Te answer is yes, there was consulta- Te Ministry of Health and the B.C. Centre for Disease tion done. I can let the member know that the ministry con- Control will provide additional training materials once the sulted with the Western Dairy Council. Te Western Dairy changes come into force, ensuring that our inspectors have Council, I’m sure the member is aware, represents approx- the most current and up-to-date information available when imately 20 member companies who process more than 96 carrying out their inspections. I think that is covered of. I percent of all milk in the four western provinces. think it’s an excellent question, but I think we’ve covered it in Tey did have some questions. But once it was shown this legislation. that the capacity for this legislation to take away from oth- er processing facilities in B.C. that process milk, which is I. Paton: Just a couple more questions. One thing that’s extremely important, and we need them to do that…. Te very important for me. We do see, from time to time, groups impact on those is very minimal, and the fact that the res- in this province that like to come forward to promote raw taurant would have to produce these products for imme- milk. We all know that, based on the Milk Industry Act, all diate consumption and not for resale made them feel con- milk in British Columbia must be pasteurized to a standard fdent that this was okay. that is acceptable, of course. We want to make absolutely sure that the inspectors that I. Paton: Sorry, one more question. For instance, a friend are inspecting these milk plants that are no longer con- of mine, Glenn Smith in Milner, has a small goat dairy, and sidered milk plants, with lesser regulations, will certainly be they make their own cheese on the goat farm. Would they looking out for any milk that’s brought into a restaurant or still be considered a dairy plant and adhere to the normal a shop that may be considered unpasteurized and may have inspections of a dairy farm or of Island Farms or Dairyland? come from a dairy farm as raw milk. Hon. L. Popham: In that case, they would still have to get Hon. L. Popham: Tat’s exactly the sort of information a dairy plant licence. that the health inspectors would be looking for — the source Thursday, October 4, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5473

I. Paton: In closing, thank you to the Minister of Agricul- Hon. D. Eby: I’m glad I was here for that, hon. Chair. I just ture for her comments and answers, and thank you to the was testing you. You passed. Wonderful news for all of us. Minister of Health for stepping in and letting me continue Let me get the right staf in here. Tank you. on with those questions. [11:40 a.m.] I wonder if the member could just review his question Section 5 approved. again so that staf hear the full context.

Te Chair: We’re heading into part 3, consideration of M. Lee: Sure, happy to do that. It’s just to say that I Attorney General amendments. We’ll allow a moment for appreciate the briefng that the Attorney General’s ofce staf to arrive. arranged for me and other colleagues on this side of the House relating to this misc stats bill — the briefng around On section 6. this particular section. [11:35 a.m.] I wanted to ask the Attorney General if he could explain, for the record here, in terms of the clarifcation around the M. Lee: Just a brief question to the Attorney General. In “any means of telecommunication that produces a writing” terms of someone who has been a medical practitioner, one language in subsection 13.1(1), how extensive the manner question I wasn’t able to address during the briefng because in which telecommunications would occur that would meet I hadn’t considered it at the time…. this test to produce a writing, in terms of with extent to If the Attorney General could just perhaps give some fur- digital or other electronic forms of communication. Appre- ther guidance in terms of a person who has retired, who has ciating that there’s an existing section in the Criminal Code been a medical practitioner and can serve on these review that does provide for something similar, in the context of panels. Is there any consideration about the length of service this particular Ofence Act, what types of telecommunica- that that person has provided and the length of experience tion would meet this test? that that person has in order to serve in that capacity? Hon. D. Eby: Currently, just in terms of practice, faxing is Hon. D. Eby: I’ll just introduce the staf who have joined the preferred method of transmission of government docu- me for these sections: Alanna Valentine-Pickett, who’s the ments. Tat’s what’s used for tele-informations. I’m advised director of strategic transformation, and Kristine Parker by a senior ofcial at court services branch that the process Hall, who’s a program and policy analyst, both with our of using fax and phone calls is very secure. Tat’s why it’s pre- tribunal transformation and supports ofce in justice ser- ferred, even though it is a more dated technology. vices branch. Tere are concerns about ensuring security with relation Te Administrative Tribunals Act permits an appoint- to email. Tere’s nothing in the section, as we understand it, ment for the initial period of two to four years and then, fol- that would restrict the use of secure email communication lowing that initial appointment, renewal for up to fve years technology, encrypted or otherwise. If that’s what the mem- at a time. You can renew for less than that, but a maximum ber’s concern is, we don’t believe there’s any restriction in this of fve years. Ten those renewals can continue to happen for in terms of the wording “telecommunication that produces a individuals who are appointed. But they come up for approv- writing.” Just for his information, the current practice is, and al every fve years following that initial appointment period. remains, fax for these types of applications.

Section 6 approved. M. Lee: Tank you for that explanation. It just raises another point. In terms of the method of telecommunica- On section 7. tion, both security and reliability, what I’m hearing is that the facsimile is the best way to do that. Are there other consid- M. Lee: I wanted to ask, in terms of the scope of the erations, besides security and reliability, that might be con- forms of telecommunication that may produce a writing, if sidered here for the form of telecommunication that would the Attorney General can just describe again for the record produce this writing? what types of forms of telecommunication would be expec- ted to do that — whether any digital electronic communica- Hon. D. Eby: I neglected to introduce a stafer who is with tion would meet that requirement. me here. Art Hargrove is the deputy director of policy and justice services for the B.C. prosecution service. Hon. D. Eby: I think we’re into section 7 with respect to Tere’s an element of convenience in a fax. You don’t this question. As long as we can pass section 6, then I can get require a log-in and additional processes. It’s point to point. the right staf in to answer the member’s question. But the overwhelming consideration here, in terms of the use of the fax for this particular use, which is tele-inform- Chair: Hon. Member, we did pass section 6. ation, is that it is the most secure way to do it. In terms of other technologies, they just simply haven’t proven to be as 5474 British Columbia Debates Thursday, October 4, 2018 secure as sending a fax, without bringing in additional bur- On section 17. dens that bring inconvenience to law enforcement. Te point of this was to try to make life more convenient, while main- M. Lee: Just in terms of the way this section is being taining security. added, subsection 18.1(1) states, of course, that the Attorney General has responsibility for “the provision, operation and Sections 7 to 9 inclusive approved. maintenance of court facilities, registries and administrative services.” Looking at that particular subsection frst, is there On section 10. a need for any authority to be provided in this provision to [11:45 a.m.] delegate any of that responsibility to others?

M. Lee: I appreciate that this section, as I understand it, Hon. D. Eby: Te section here that is proposed to be codifes the roles and responsibilities of the current chief added is actually a word-for-word replication of the old sec- justice and has been done as a result of consultation. tion 10. Tere is no change to the section except for the sec- I’d just like to walk through, again, for the record here the tion number, which is now 18.1 instead of section 10. nature of specifcally subsections (5) and (7). Te provisions Te system, as it has existed for many years, is such: “Te say that for the approvals to be placed in writing by the chief Attorney General is responsible for the provision, operation justice in subs (4) and (6), the chief justice must consult with and maintenance of court facilities, registries and admin- the Attorney General. istrative services.” We have a court services branch and an Perhaps I’d ask what the nature of that consultation is that ADM that provides those services for the government under would occur and what’s contemplated within these provi- the supervision of the Attorney General’s ofce. sions in subs (5) and (7). M. Lee: Tank you again for that clarifcation. I would Hon. D. Eby: I can tell the member that as far as (5) and like to ask, then…. In terms of the existing language which (7), the act doesn’t propose to change anything related to has been there — and now this repositioning, let’s say — these. But the history, as I understand it, and the intent is just within the act, when one looks at the chief administrat- to ensure that both the chief justice and the Attorney Gener- or’s role in sections (2) and (3), the chief administrator al are…. has the responsibility to carry out the duties assigned to Ultimately, it’s the chief justice’s decision, but the Attorney the registry. Also, in sub (3), and that’s the provision I was General could potentially raise issues of coverage across the actually more focused on: “the chief administrator of court province if that was something that there was a concern services must direct and supervise registries and adminis- about, just to make sure that there was sufcient represent- trative services for the court.” ation of judges, masters, registrars and district registrars in Is that an example of a sharing of responsibility there areas where they were needed across the province. between the Attorney General and that chief administrator Tis bill does not propose to amend either (5) or (7). in terms of how registries and administrative services are supervised at the court level? M. Lee: I appreciate that response. Tank you for that cla- rifcation. Hon. D. Eby: Our court services branch is responsible I would just ask then to what degree? When the Attorney for ensuring that the registry staf and the support services General and the ministry are looking at coverage around this for the courts are there. It is critically important work and province for judges, masters and registrars for the purpose is done very ably by our ADM for court services. She does of the good administration of justice in our province, what have authority and responsibility to do that. Tis section ability proactively will the Attorney General have through enables her to do that work on behalf of the public in British these provisions to initiate potential geographic allocations, Columbia. let’s say, of these individuals in the roles that they play? Sections 17 to 30 inclusive approved. Hon. D. Eby: Te bill doesn’t propose to amend anything in terms of how the various administrators or judges are sent On section 31. around the province. But I can advise the member that the discretion about where judges, masters, registrars or district M. Lee: On section 31, I don’t know if any other col- registrars sit is entirely within the jurisdiction of the chief leagues in this House would like to ask any questions about justice. Although there is a requirement for consultation, the that section, but seeing none right at the moment, I just fnal decision around coverage for these various roles resides wanted to ask: in terms of the scope of the minister’s powers within the ofce of the chief justice. here, do we need any…? [11:50 a.m.] Interjection. Sections 10 to 16 inclusive approved. Thursday, October 4, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5475

M. Lee: Okay. Committee of the Whole (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Hon. D. Eby: I move the committee report progress and seek leave to sit again. Hon. M. Farnworth moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved. Motion approved.

Te committee rose at 11:55 a.m. Mr. Speaker: Tis House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afernoon. Te House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Te House adjourned at 11:56 a.m.

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