TIMECODE NAME Dialogue 00.00.01 ROXY Before we start this episode, we’d like to know your thoughts and what you think about the BBC Academy podcast. Just head to edrsurvey.com/bbcsurvey to let us know and don’t worry; it’ll only take a few minutes for you and will be very valuable to us. You can find the link in our show notes. Thank you. MUSIC 00.00.20 NARRATOR This is the BBC Academy Podcast, essential listening for the production, journalism and technology broadcast communities, your guide to everything from craft skills to taking your next step in the industry. 00.00.33 ROXY Hello and welcome to this week’s BBC Academy Podcast with me, Roxy Ibrahim Khan. Today I’m really excited because we’re going behind the scenes of the Radio One Breakfast show, with Nick Grimshaw and his production team, it’s one of the most listened to breakfast programmes with an audience of more than nearly five million listeners a week. 00.00.52 ROXY We’ll be finding out what goes into the making of the show, who is responsible for what on air and in the prepping stages, and also, how to build the dynamics of the team. I’m pleased to welcome the programmes Producer, Will Foster, hi Will. WILL Hello. ROXY Assistant Producer, Fiona Hanlan, Hey Fiona. 00.01.08 FIONA Hello. ROXY And Grimmy himself, hiya. NICK Hi. 00.01.12 ROXY Welcome everyone, so it’s just gone half ten and you’ve just come off air how are you usually feeling after a show, buzzing or knackered? 00.01.20 NICK Erm it, it depends really erm we had a lot going on, on the show today, we were doing a big erm competition for Radio One’s Big Weekend, so we had that on, we had Sean Mendes on as well, we had erm like a musical feature that we do called Throwback Thursday and we had a film expert come into see us, Ali Blum, so it was quite a crazy, full on show, and I just feel like I need to like have a fresh bit of air or a shower or something, okay, I feel like it’s quite a weird time yes. 00.01.50 FIONA Yes because we’re up so early our food eating, sleeping patterns all out of sync. So I just want to sit at my desk, put my headphones on, try and avoid people and then about 11 o’clock I’m like, I’m ready to talk. WILL You’ve also had a lot of your working day by the time that most people start their working day [yeah]. So I think it is a slightly strange space to be in. ROXY So what’s the routine then when you guys come in, do you go through a script, is there a script Will? 00.02.14 WILL Well my alarm goes off at 4 o’clock in the morning and I’m in work for 5 o’clock and we normally leave the office largely knowing www.bbc.co.uk/academy 1

what’s going to be in the show the next day, so whether that’s guests or a competition or things that we’re going to talk about, but it’s really nice as well to have room in a show so that you can be as current and topical as possible, so those first few hours of the day will be looking through what’s happened and trying our best to reflect it really. The script itself, it’s not scripted in the sense of how you might read a book or something like that with every single sentence written out, but there will be a structure in place sort of breaking down each half hour into maybe ten minute chunks. ROXY But it’s flexible? 00.02.55 WILL Yes. FIONA Yes, and it’s good to be flexible because if anything amazing happens as Will says, you want to talk about it and people want to listen to the breakfast show because they want to hear how we’re going to discuss it. 00.03.05 NICK Yes, so it’s good, it’s weird the night before if you’ve not got anything planned, like Will said it’s always good to have an idea of what is going to happen the next day on the show, because I think you like rest easy knowing we’ve got like these five things that we’re going to do and then when you get in we figure out where they’re going to be and what time they’re going to happen and how long we’re going to spend on each one, but it’s always good knowing you’ve got stuff to talk about and we’ll have a little sheet of, i don’t know the naked Justin Bieber Instagram or that giraffe that’s had a baby, we’ll have a little list of stuff to talk about and then you can just pick when you want to do it, when it makes sense when you’re on air. 00.03.37 FIONA Will has a word for this, Will calls it hot food. WILL So we’ll always have the main show sort of sketched out of what we’re going to do but then on a separate piece of paper I have a list of hot food [laugh] and the idea of that sort of like stuff that you keep under the lights, so like you know when you go to a canteen [oh yeah] and there’s always stuff ready to go and you just dive in and have a sausage or something. And so its stuff which isn’t necessarily the best stuff but it will get you through. NICK It’s still tasty. WILL Yes. FIONA Still tasty. ROXY Still yummy. How do you guys put your script together, do you guys have regular creative sessions, how do you come up with features for example, Nick? 00.04.12 NICK Because it’s daily there’s always so much stuff going on so it changes really, like it depends who the guest is or what the competition is or it depends what it is, we don’t have like a set we’ll sit down every day at eleven and go through, or I don’t, you probably do. FIONA Well it depends who’s coming in. 00.04.30 WILL It depends who it is. 00.04.30 FIONA Yes like for next week we’ve got some really big guests coming in, www.bbc.co.uk/academy 2

we’re all going to meet as a team [yes] and then go through the ideas and potential like fun features and what we’re going to feel and what we’re say and last minute we get a lot of big interviews, so somebody might say and go, right, you’ve got ~Harry Styles coming in, quick, and you’re like right okay let’s just drop everything and get this sorted. 00.04.50 WILL I think there’s a feeling as well that we’re really lucky that we have all of these massive guests who come on the show and we just want to make sure that with the time we have with them we ask the best questions and do the most entertaining things, because you don’t want to waste those opportunities and so the planning we do do is making sure that if you’re asking ten questions those are the best ten questions you can ask. 00.05.11 And similarly if it’s going to be something which is silly or fun or a game or whatever it might be, that that’s something which feels right to do with that person. ROXY Will as a Producer what kind of practical support are you looking for, what would you look for from Fiona for example? 00.05.25 WILL Show teams I think are really weird, dysfunctional, intimate families and its odd actually because you’re in this really small space, I think in my head when I listen to Radio One and the Breakfast Show, growing up, I imagined it was going to be this sort of massive, glamorous studio [yeah] and it would just be really plush and actually you go into it and it is just a square room that’s quite small and you’re all sat very closely. 00.05.29 WILL And so I think the most important thing is that you all get on, but also understand each other and what each person needs in that space. I think if you’re producing a show you’re just all, you’re thinking ahead in every possible way, so you’re thinking to the end of the show in three and a half hours time when we go on air, but also what you’re going to be doing in the next link, so after thirty three and a half minutes of a song. 00.06.10 WILL And its making sure that when you go into that link, that we’re the most prepared possible, so that might be do we have a caller that we want to speak to, if we do there’s a team assistant who sits outside the studio and does so much stuff, but one of the things it includes is putting callers on to the radio and they’ll chat to them, but then it’ll be always good, because you’ve got millions of listeners you obviously want to make sure they sound as good as possible and they know exactly what they’re doing, so Fiona would quite likely chat to them as well, after that initial vetting process. 00.06.41 WILL Make sure things like their radio’s off but also make sure they know what they’re going to talk about and make sure that when they come on and speak to the millions of people who listen to the show they sound brilliant. It might also be if we’ve got a guest coming in that they need to be briefed and so Fiona nearly always is the person to do that so that’s run through what we’ve been talking through on that day’s show, it’s when you say oh did you hear us do that thing earlier and they say like no, say oh that’s a shame. It’s also simple editorial things like please don’t swear, please don’t mention these brands, please don’t talk about this thing, so we’re trying to make sure that when they come in they www.bbc.co.uk/academy 3

know exactly what’s going to be happening and again that means that we can get the best thing possible out of them. 00.07.19 WILL We need to make sure that we’re sounding good and we’re not too quiet and not too loud and that everything’s at the right level and so Fiona’s eyes will be on the equipment in the studio and making sure we sound okay. ROXY Fiona you’re doing a lot it sounds like? 00.07.32 FIONA No it’s just a casual thing yeah. NICK She’s doing a lot. ROXY Is there anything that Will can give you to help you do your job better? 00.07.38 FIONA Yes, loads, and he does that, as Assistant Producer you’re constantly learning and so you kind of want a bit of guidance and you need to know where the show’s going, so Will will sit down with me the day before and kind of tell me what’s going to happen with the show and then we’ll run through it again in the morning, and we’ll figure out where the gaps are so I can see what my job can be, where to fill, what do think about. 00.08.00 FIONA And also we have to work really closely as a team and we don’t really during the show, we don’t really talk to each other, we talk to each other a lot but you’re having to watch each other just check each other and it’s a bit like you’re a bit of a mother and father, so you’re kind of working together as a team to make sure that everything is going to be alright, it’s also about developing your skills and making yourself better at your job and you want to learn as much as you can from a Producer and that’s something that Will is good and all people should do is teach everybody how to be better and new skills that you don’t know yet. 00.08.34 FIONA And that’s something for me I think is really important because I’m constantly just soaking it in and thinking okay that’s really interesting and if Will does something that I’ve not done before I would say why did you decide to do that, it’s not out of like, why are you doing that, it’s more of a, oh okay I didn’t think about that and that’s really interesting because there’s certain things that you just, you’ve just not done before. 00.08.52 ROXY So how does it work at Radio One and One Extra, is there a pool of Assistant Producers like AP’s or Producers and Broadcast Assistants, do presenters get to bagsy who they want to work with, how does all that work? 00.09.04 FIONA It varies, there is definitely a pool of OP’s and Producers and then sometimes there is like an AP on a show who will kind of be on their for a few months or a few weeks or a couple of years, it just depends on who’s got jobs and who’s freelance and who wants to and doesn’t want to work on a show anymore and sometimes if you’re particularly good at or have a skill, on a certain show, they’d end up working on that. If you like to have one job and sit and do that job for 20 years then it’s probably not the place for you to work because it’s an environment that’s always changing and quite fast paced. ROX Is that quite difficult to kind of maintain like the camaraderie and the feel of the team, if you’ve got people chopping and www.bbc.co.uk/academy 4

changing, how is that for you? 00.09.46 NICK For me I’ve not had that many producers, in my life really, on the Breakfast Show I’ve only had three and we’ve been doing it for nearly five years, so it does change but it doesn’t change that erratically that you know you don’t build up a relationship. So it’s been really good though to have new production and new change because it brings in new ideas and it makes me want to show off in a new way, do you know what I mean it makes you feel slightly revitalised, so I think it’s a good thing to have people coming in with new ideas, I don’t think you should change that much but I think it’s worked out right for us. 00.10.21 NICK Fifi’s been doing breakfast with me since I started and Tina has as well who does the News so there’s been them consistent and then we’ve had Producer Matt, then Vic and now Will, but yes, no I like the change its good, I think. FIONA Yes, change. NICK It helps me get better. ROXY So I was going to say interpersonal skills are almost just as important as like say the technical knowhow? 00.10.35 FIONA Yes definitely, would you agree? NICK 100% yes, I think because, I think if it’s a good vibe in the studio and we’re getting on as a production team and like you said like this sort of dysfunctional family, I think you can feel that on the radio, like you can hear it and you want to be part of it and it sounds inclusive and it sounds really natural, so I think it’s really important to have both the technical knowhow of actually knowing how to Produce but then also being able to be a nice guy and us to want to talk to you and hang out with you. I think it’s really important because it’s all about vibe isn’t it. ROXY So how would you guys say that you maintain that relationship or build on that relationship? 00.11.26 FIONA Initially you have to treat it like a job, and then the extra bits around that you go oh actually we all get on and there’s a natural chemistry and we all kind of fit. I’ve definitely worked on shows at Radio One before, where you think oh we don’t really get on or it’s not really working and that’s fine, but you just and that’s when you just go but it’s a job so to me it’s an extra added bonus that I get on with all my whole team and that makes going to work like a pleasure rather than being like oh my god, what am I getting up at this time, yes I don’t know, what do you think Will? 00.11.54 WILL It’s really important to trust each other, in the team, so quite often in live broadcast there is things which happen very quickly and sometimes unexpectedly, and so you need decisions to be made quickly if say a Producer instantly says, right that’s happened we need to do this, if that’s very clear then that’s very simple and actually it doesn’t become something which is an issue, whereas if there’s panic or confusion or there might be different people saying different things then that’s when stuff can sort of start to go off the rails and start to become a big confused and I think if you know that each time someone says something to you you’re like oh I trust that person, I believe in what they think and I think that www.bbc.co.uk/academy 5

their decision will be the right one, then it actually makes it really easy. 00.12.32 NICK Yes it is trust is a really key thing and I think because we’re friends and get on we also know, you know Will and Fifi will know what is interesting to me or what will make me laugh or they’ll know things I’ll want to talk about or what guests I want on, you’ll be like oh we should do that. We have a Whatsap group and we send sort of stuff to each other all the time. 00.12.52 WILL And actually that’s a really good point because when you were asking earlier about production meetings and that kind of thing, that all sounds very formal and there is just a constant production meeting going on in that Whatsap group I guess and it’s from observing anything that’s happened, so the Grammy’s or the Brits or whatever it might be we’re always sharing just little things which could be, well they’re entertaining for us and then some of them will hopefully be entertaining for the people listening. ROXY I guess you’re constantly on then, is it like a 24 hours thing you’re not really off at any point? 00.13.17 NICK You’re always, I think doing a breakfast show as well you’re constantly thinking that could be on the radio and anything that you’re doing like I was just on holiday with my mum and anything that happened or was funny or weird or anything that I did I’d write down because you’re thinking it could be that hot food stuff, it could be something we could do, when you go and see a film or you’re watching the Grammy’s or something I’m always thinking, oh what’s going to be like the funny thing or the bit to talk about. 00.13.42 NICK So you’re never, you’re never like not thinking about the radio I don’t think because it’s every day. 00.13.47 WILL And I think friends and family get used to this thing of when stuff happens [laughter] you always end up getting your phone out and writing it down or emailing it to yourself, I mean different shows use different techniques, sometimes they’ll have like a general email address where at the moment they have an idea that comes to their mind they’ll just email it over and its one of those things you always say to yourself oh I’ll remember that and you never do. FIONA Never. And everything we do is relatable to our audience, so if stupid stuff that happens with our boyfriends or our parents then it’s like, okay yeah everyone else has gone through this [yeah], let’s tell this story and get some callers on. ROXY How much of the show is driven by like stats and stuff, you know is there like a pressure because obviously you’re a big radio breakfast show, is there a pressure to hit certain numbers or are you kind of just like content first, whatever second, Nick? 00.14.34 NICK There’s I guess there’s an expectation but there’s not pressure, there’s no one coming in and being like we’re down this much, there’s none of like that from the bosses, I think that the bosses want it to sound how it should sound and they know good radio, so when its good and you know they’re happy that’s when I think when I’m the happiest, like when they’re coming and saying oh my god that was really good or I loved that bit, so that’s what I always focus on cause I’m pretty sure they’d tell you if they didn’t www.bbc.co.uk/academy 6

like it. FIONA They’d tell you. 00.15.01 WILL Like we shouldn’t be naive about it, not every show will be as good as the one before it and there are shows which are just for some reason don’t necessarily feel quite so good, and if I said like oh every show we do, every day of the week is always a 100% brilliant, and our intention is always to make it a 100% brilliant, but depending on what’s going on and sort of atmosphere and vibe and the quality of the guests you might have that might change. 00.15.25 WILL But as Nick says I think is very much a thing of we obviously can’t go in there and do whatever the hell we want because you’ve got to have, at the back of the mind what your audience wants and ultimately that’s what we’re there for is to be entertaining, play a load of great new music, be informative, there’s new in our show as well so there is a sort of solid offering of what should set our listeners up for a great morning. But within those parameters we do have flexibility in what we want to do. ROXY And you just mentioned music there, who picks the music, is that a team thing? 00.16.00 NICK We have a music team at Radio One, who playlist the day from 4 a.m., right through to 7 p.m., they programme all the music so that we’re not playing the same songs on every show in the same order, so that’s all pre determined by the music team. ROXY Okay, let’s talk about guests, do you guys get to ask for certain guests or do you just get told who’s coming in? 00.16.24 NICK No we can pick can’t we, though how does it happen, do they contact us, do we contact them? FIONA It’s a mixture. NICK It’s a mix? 00.16.30 FIONA Yes it’s a mixture like we’ll get emails saying do you want this Orlando Bloom in or something, like we’ll see somebody in the paper and we’re like oh they’re in town, lets email them, get them in or Nick’s seen somebody at a party and is like oh they’re around they want to come on, or somebody that we’ve had on previous shows who known mine and Will’s email addresses and they’ve gone, this persons around do you want to get them in. It’s a real mixture and also it’s keeping ahead so we’ll often look at TV guides and films coming up and seeing, okay in three months time this TV show’s going to be back or returning, let’s get ahead of ourselves and book them in and stuff. 00.17.05 FIONA But again it’s a constant thing where on our Whatsap we’ll be like oh have you seen this, they’re coming in. NICK And do we like them, are they fun, have they been on before. FIONA Yes. ROXY Have you ever had any quite difficult guests? 00.17.16 FIONA Yes definitely. NICK Yeah, yeah.

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ROXY How do you deal with that? 00.17.18 NICK They don’t stay on long, so. FIONA See ya. NICK Yes like yes basically, if it’s boring there’s no point stringing it out, sometimes people will come in and they’re sort of behaving like its mad that they’re being interviewed or like their answers are closed, their like yeah, or no its like no, no its an interview, so you kind of just don’t have them on long if they’re boring. 00.17.38 WILL And actually that’s worth saying because I’m not sure if it’s clear how it works, but ultimately those massive names, those people thta Nick was just mentioning, they’re on because they’ve got something to promote, they’ve got something to sell, so whether its they’ve got a new single, or they’ve got a new film it’s in their interest to be on because you’re interested to hear that person talk about things, we’re giving them a platform where they can talk about the things that they’re doing and so when someone comes on, if they’re just saying yes, no, yes, no and just not giving you much in return we’re not really benefiting from that, they’re not really benefiting from it. NICK Yes. 00.18.12 WILL And so you might have plans thinking oh we’ll have that person in and they’ll be on the show for about half an hour, so if you’re ever listening and they’re there and gone within three minutes then they’re probably not a good sign. FIONA And the listeners know as well because they’ll text in [yes they know] and they’re like, [they so know] oh they’re rubbish and Nick’s really good because Nick will say, Nick will be like well that was interesting, good, fine. 00.18.32 WILL Because we brief guests and they know not to swear and things like that, if a guest were to suddenly go off and rant about something, or be offensive, in some way, then if it was in a very mild manner we might sort of gently remind them, remember that you’re on the radio and people are listening to this, but if it were to be severe then we would terminate the interview and that would be the end of it and so there might be awkward situations sometimes where a person is perhaps just a little too relaxed in that live environment and we’re broadcasting obviously to the whole nation and a lot of young people are listening. 00.19.05 WILL And so you’ve got to think about what would be appropriate for them to hear. ROXY Before we wrap it up let’s talk about some advice, Will and Fiona can you tell me, what advice would you give to someone who’s maybe thinking about coming into radio production? 00.19.19 WILL I knew I wanted to get involved with radio from quite an early age, so I think I was about 14 or 15 and from that time I had tried to do things that would teach me more about it, so there was a local radio station where I lived in south London and so I’d go along there and I’d work for free, and I also used to do some stuff at a station in Guildford. But in terms of skills that was just exposing myself to how those radio stations worked, I did GCSE’s that weren’t related to radio, and the same with A Levels and then I www.bbc.co.uk/academy 8

went to University and actually studied English Literature. 00.19.54 WILL That wasn’t specifically focused on broadcasting or being a producer but during my time of doing those things I did a lot of student radio, also I think I was just picking up skills of communicating with people and how to sort of express yourself, and how to sort of be organised and all that kind of stuff. But the way that I got into radio was by sort of directly approaching people in the industry, radio stations, producers, presenters and asking to sort of get involved with the stuff that they were doing. 00.20.22 WILL And in some ways it’s tough, because its, you sort of think initially oh how do I get involved with that and I’ll never be able to work somewhere like Radio One, but actually if you’re really persistent and aren’t afraid to be rejected with emails and stuff like that then I think eventually you’ll always manage to get in, and I think a lot of people give up too early and they sort of get one rejection email and think oh well I’ll never be able to work there or I’ll never be able to do that. 00.20.47 WILL And actually if you just keep at it, there will be people interested to hear from you, hear about what you’re interested in and then want to probably meet you and get you involved with some of the things that they’re doing. ROXY Anything to add to that Fiona? 00.20.59 FIONA Working in production radio has changed so much, you don’t just work on a radio show and you know you speak to Nick and you go let’s talk about this and we play some music, it’s like social media, its filming, booking guests which is kind of part of it but it feels massive the role now, you’ve got to think about everything, like we think about, we speak to the Marketing team, how we’re going to market it and it’s so varied the job now that when you’re thinking about working on radio you can be working making really good viral videos and gifts and how do we get the show on as many platforms as possible, get loads of experience and just try lots of different jobs and then you’ll figure it out. ROXY And Nick, what about budding presenters? 00.21.42 NICK I think just try and do it as much as you can and get as much experience, as Fiona said I think it takes a little while doing radio for it not to feel weird, not to be like oh I’m speaking in a room to nobody, so I think student radio really helped me because you can do it all the time, and every day and you can make loads of mistakes and no one’s really listening, or judging you. 00.22.04 NICK And also just figuring out what it is that you like about other presenters, so I really like Sarah Cox and I really like Chris Evans and I used to listen to them all the time and what I liked about them was, they were really themselves and they were silly and they weren’t technically amazing in the way other, or maybe TV presenters are, like everything’s perfect, I think radio has got a lot more heart and soul than TV and it doesn’t have to be as perfect and as clean and as great as you know as telly has to be sort of technically perfect. 00.22.37 NICK So I think I really like that and I think finding out what you like and what you want to talk about because if someone said to me oh you’ve got to talk about football now, I couldn’t do it, it would be www.bbc.co.uk/academy 9

really, really hard because I don’t like football. So finding out what you like talking about, if I had to talk about I don’t know, crisps, or music we’re fine because I like crisps and music. So then you can talk about it and be confident that you’re an expert in that field. So I think finding out topics that you really like and are easy for you to talk about will make you better at your job as a presenter. 00.23.09 ROXY Okay well I think that’s a great place to wrap it up, thanks for speaking to us today guys you’ve definitely given us loads of insight into the making of the show, my thanks to Nick Grimshaw, Fiona Hanlan and Will Foster, don’t forget you can find out more information about all things radio, technology, TV online and much more on our website, just search for BBC Academy and don’t forget you can always get in touch with us via Twitter or Facebook we’re @bbcacademy. This podcast was produced by Jack Burgess, from me, Roxy Ebrahim Khan thanks for listening. 00.23.41 NARRATOR You’ve been listening to the BBC Academy podcast, if you want to find out more about this topic or to hear previous shows search online for the BBC Academy. 00.23.50 MUSIC 00.23.54 END OF RECORDING

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