As part of our ongoing presentation of the t'ietr.s of leading humanists, FREE INQUIRY is pleased to publish this interviett• tt•ith Corliss Lamont. Dr. Lamont is a long-standing supporter of the humanist movement. He is the author of The Philosophy of Humanism, The Illusion of Immortality, and other humanist hooks.

An Interview with Corliss Lamont: On Humanism, Marxism, and Socialism

"Humanism is certainly incompatible with the anti- democratic and repressive features of communist dictatorships."

Free Inquiry: You are one of the leading humanists in the world religious sphere by the Moral Majority, constitutes an today. How would you define humanism? enormous danger to American democracy and American Corliss Lamont: I believe in naturalistic humanism and people in general. President Reagan's madcap economic define it as a philosophy of joyous service for the greater good policies have driven this country into another severe of all humanity in this one and only life, rejecting all depression, while his provocative defense policies have wasted supernaturalism and relying primarily on the methods of tens of billions of dollars on nuclear weapons, exacerbated the reason, science, and democracy for the solution of human arms race with the Soviet Union, and brought the horror of problems. nuclear war even closer. FI: Do you consider yourself a secular humanist or a Humanists are particularly concerned with the menace of religious humanist? the Moral Majority because that organization has declared Lamont: I am distinctly not a "religious humanist" and do humanism to be the root of all evil in the United States and the not like the term "secular humanist," which today is being world. It carries on an unceasing campaign of calumny and widely used to smear the humanist movement. I have no falsehood against humanism over radio and television. It is objection to the terms "scientific humanist" and "democratic hostile to the Bill of Rights. Perhaps its greatest threat to humanist," but believe that "naturalistic humanist" best democracy lies in its initiating and encouraging the censorship identifies the genuine humanist and best avoids semantic of books throughout the United States. confusion. The Moral Majority is by no means the only rightist FI: Do you have any objections to religious humanism? religious group that poses a threat to U.S. democracy. There Do you think it is a mistake to use the term "religious"? are, for instance, the Christian Broadcasting Network, the Lamont: Since religious humanism agrees in its principles Christian Voice, the Religious Roundtable, and the Campus entirely with naturalistic humanism, I see no objection in Crusade for Christ, International. cooperating with religious humanists and consider the FI: What is the relationship between humanism and Fellowship of Religious Humanists a worthwhile organization. politics? Is not humanism a philosophical, scientific, and FI: What is your view of the New Right? Does it constitute ethical position that can be held independent of politics? a danger to American democracy? Lamont: Humanism as a philosophy does not take a Lamont: The New Right, represented in the economic- position as between political parties and candidates, or political sphere by the Reagan Administration and in the between different economic systems. The American Humanist

Winter 1982/83 17 Association, for instance, welcomes as members sincere humanists no matter what their political affiliations. Humanism does indeed have a philosophical, scientific, and ethical position that can be held independent of politics. However, humanists as individuals, exercising their freedom of choice, will vote, work, play, and in general act according to humanist ideals. These cover such a broad range that there is plenty of room for disagreement in carrying them out. FI: Would you consider yourself to be a Marxist humanist? And, if so, in what sense? Lamont: Except for a very short time in the thirties, I have not called myself a Marxist. Hence I am by no means a Marxist humanist. Marxism agrees with naturalistic humanism in rejecting belief in God and immortality, in regarding the earthly welfare of mankind as the supreme goal, and in relying on science and its techniques. But Marxism uses the formidable phrase Dialectical Materialism to designate its philosophy and disagrees with humanism in that it accepts complete determinism, is ambiguous regarding democracy and civil liberties, and relies primarily on the proletariat for human and poetry; enjoyment of family life, including children, progress. grandchildren, and many other dear relatives; and enjoyment FI: Some humanists believe that certain forms of of friendship with a multitude of warm and interesting men and Marxism the totalitarian and Stalinist varieties are women. incompatible with humanism because they are repressive and FI: Have you made any mistakes that you wish to correct? anti-democratic. Do you agree or disagree? Lamont: Looking back on my eighty years, I find that Lamont: Humanism is certainly incompatible with the have made so many mistakes that I, like many other people, anti-democratic and repressive features of communist would like to live my life over again. An initial mistake was that dictatorships. However, lack of democracy is not the only I spent too much time on extracurricular activities at Phillips important issue in Marxist states. For instance, in the Soviet Exeter Academy and Harvard College, even though Union, definite assets are scientific and medical progress, the graduated magna cum laude from the latter. During my adult care of children, the equality of women, universal education, career I found myself vitally interested in so many causes, and, above all, the government's attempts to make agreements committees, and institutions that I spread myself too thin and with the United States for the control and reduction of nuclear did not concentrate sufficiently on my writing and on my weapons. In judging any country. I think we should criticize its original field of philosophy. bad aspects and praise its good ones. As an inveterate seeker of Utopia. 1 was thrilled, like millions of my fellow humans, by the great Russian Revolution "Except for a very short time in the thirties, I have of 1917, and thought that the communist government might not called myself a Marxist. Hence I am by no means build the Good Society in the form of socialism. The trouble a Marxist humanist.... Marxism disagrees with was that I was carried away by my first enthusiasm and naively humanism in that it accepts complete determinism, overlooked some of the evils developing in the Soviet Union, especially the scope and ferocity of the communist dictator- is ambiguous regarding democracy and civil ship. As I said in my memoirs, Yes to Li/e: "While .Joseph liberties, and relies primarily on the proletariat for Stalin was in power. there was throughout the Soviet Union human progress." one of the most cruel and violent dictatorships in history. culminating in the judicial frame-up of Soviet leaders in the FI: In your long career, what has given you the most Moscow Trials (1935-38). 1 had even defended those trials as satisfaction? genuine. In general I have been too optimistic about the rate at Lamont: It is impossible to choose one event or series of which communist states would evolve into democratic events in my, career and say which has given me most societies. satisfaction. Highpoints have been the publication of my books FI: The fact that you are the son of a Morgan banker and on philosophy and public affairs, the latest being my memoirs, are on the political left has intrigued many people. Has your Yes to Life: active participation in the struggle for civil liberties; large inheritance been an embarrassment to you? Do you think the U.S. court defeat of Senator Joseph McCarthy's endeavor your views developed as a result of this inheritance? to have me jailed for alleged contempt of Congress; constant Lamont: The fact that 1 was born into a wealthy banking involvement in educating the American people about the family was in no sense an Oedipal reason for my development philosophy of naturalistic humanism; enjoyment of America's of radical views. I worked out independently my opinions in magnificent national parks and of sports. especially skiing and philosophy. politics. and international affairs on the basis of tennis; enjoyment of ballet, theater, motion pictures, music. reason and a profound wish for the greater happiness of all

18 Lamont: It is true that I believe in democratic socialism as "While Joseph Stalin was in power, there was the best way to overcome the ruinous economic crises of throughout the Soviet Union one of the most cruel capitalism, with mass unemployment, galloping inflation, and and violent dictatorships in history, culminating in increasing poverty. The key to an efficient socialist society is planning. Any successful capitalist business must carefully the judicial frame-up of Soviet leaders in the plan, primarily by drawing up and carrying through its annual Moscow Trials of 1935-1938." budget. The same is true of government operations. Socialism extends the widespread planning already present to the nation humanity. The charge that I became a leftist in economics as a whole, to the state, to the city, and to local enterprises. This because of a "revolt" against my capitalist father is pure would entail the nationalization of the banks and the main nonsense and entirely overlooks the fact that I also broke away means of production and distribution. I would leave any from my mother's deep allegiance to the Christian religion and business with ten employees or less functioning as now, but in became a humanist. The shallow Oedipus attacks also have accordance with the state plan. Thus I favor a mixed economy. neglected the point that I agreed with my parents on many Socialist planning will, for the public welfare, curtail important issues, such as support of the League of Nations and individual economic freedom, just as traffic regulations curtail the United Nations, of birth control and planned parenthood, for the sake of safety the millions of automobiles in the United of the trade union movement and the encouragement of poetry, States. We must adopt the same principle for the complex culminating in our mutual admiration for and friendship with economic traffic of the nations and the world. • British Poet Laureate John Masefield. It must be added that I was brought up in a close-knit and happy family circle and that I always dearly loved my father and mother. Good-looking, sturdy files I have always felt that my well-to-do economic situation to protect your copies of made me more free to espouse socialism without compromise, because no financial pressures could affect my ideological independence. Tng It might be said that my father actually sparked my pro- Soviet leanings, since he sought late in 1917 to have the United States government cooperate with Lenin's regime against the Germans and strenuously opposed the anti-Soviet military intervention by America and the Allies. Later he stated: "Of all the essays that sober statesmen have ever been guilty of, that of attempting in the spring of 1918 to overturn the Soviet government (which by that time had control over vast millions of Russians and of the regions they occupied) was, as we look back, the maddest." FI: Has your inheritance caused any personal problems? Is it a handicap? Lamont: My parents left a large inheritance to their four children, including myself, and generously set up trust funds, the income of which went to their children and the capital Choose either red, yellow, blue, green or black eventually to their grandchildren. During most of my life 1 had vinyl with gold ornamentation and convenient surplus funds, which I have contributed to committees, causes, magazines, and educational institutions with programs that label-holders front and back. furthered my views on public affairs. I have also helped many needy individuals. I am glad to have been able to give these Each file holds 20 issues (5 years) of Free Inquiry kinds of financial aid. My largest gift was $ I million in 1982 to the Law School of Columbia University for the establishment $5.95 each, plus $1.50 for postage and handling of a special Professorship in Civil Liberties. At the same time my inheritance has been an embarrass- ment to me because l have been constantly flooded with Please send me files in financial appeals and am apparently on every money-raising red yellow blue green black list in the country. I have dealt with the problem by simply I enclose my check or money order for $ tossing in the wastepaper basket at least half of my mail Name Street unopened every day. City State Zip FI: If you are a socialist, what kind of socialist are you? Do you believe in a "mixed system" or the complete nationaliza- oa tion of the means of production? What is more important, Box 5, Central Park Station, Buffalo, NY 14215 political or economic democracy?

Winter 1982/83