Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 9 OCTOBER 1952

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Industrial, &c., Bill (No. 2). [9 OCTOBER.] Questions. 617

THT.TRSDAY. 9 OCTOBER, 1952.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon . .J. H. Manu, Bris­ bane) took the chair at 11 a. m.

QUESTIONS.

STNrE HOUSES, EDITH STREET, ENOGGERA.

lUr. ~!ORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) asked the Secretary for Public ·works and Housing- " In regard to Houses Nos. 1248, 1249, and 1252, of Edith Street Enoggera, will he please supply the following partic­ ul~ns:-(a) size; (b) type of construction; (c) date of signature on agreement to purchase~'' Hon. P. J. R. IHLTON (Carnarvon) replied- " (a) 900 square feet. (b) 'J' type, cavity wall brick construction, two bed­ rooms. (c) I do not propose to make this information available.''

AIR-CONDITIONING OF TRAINS. n'Ir. CHALK (Lockyer) asked the Minister for Transport- '' 1. ·what has been the cost of equipment and materials purchased for the air­ conditioning of Queensland trains~ '' 2. How much of this equipment and material has been used, and what is i!l' value~ '' 3. Will there be a surplus of equipment and materials after air-conditioning of the new trains has been carried out, and what is the value of such surplus and to what purpose will it be put~" '618 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba) Hon. W. POWER (Baroona) replied- >replied- '' The hon. member is apparently " 1, 2, and 3. As eight of the nine air­ annoyed by reason of the fact that, at the ·eonditioned trains being built for the Perth Prices Conference, I was able not Queensland railways are being constructed only to stop the increase in the price of; by Commonwealth Engineering Company, petrol being applied to North and Central a private firm, it is not possible to Queensland, but also to have the bulk secure the information asked for without petrol terminal ports of Cairns, Towns­ requesting that firm to have a dissection ville, and Gladstone placed on the same made of the relevant costs. This would bowser price as Brisbane. In addition to involve an expenditure which is not these ports, I was able to have petrol prices justified. As there will be no surplus of at 50 centres reduced. As indicated in my any air-conditioning equipment after the previous replies, the question of a uniform air-conditioning of the new trains has been petrol price throughout the State is impos­ carried out, and as responsible officers of sible without the assistance of the Common­ the Department and I are satisfied with wealth Government. At the Perth Prices the work being performed by Common­ Conference I was also able to obtain agree­ wealth Engineering Company and in our ment whereby each State would determine own workshops, I do not propose to its country freight differentials, and, in authorise the expenditure entailed in satis­ consequence, the Commissioner of Prices fying the inquisitiveness of the hon. mem­ will investigate this position as early as ber, as laxity, inefficiency, or public practicable. In these circumstances, I do interest is not involved.'' not propose to have him committed in any way as to the manner in which he may determine petrol prices at any particular CACTUS IN COLLINSVILLE DISTRICT. centre or centres. ' ' Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) asked the Secretary for Public Lands and Irrigation- HEALTH CONDITIONS, MACHAN 'S BEACH, '' 1. From what acreage in the Collinsville SCHOOL. district is it proposed to eradicate Harrisia ll'Ir. WORD

"3. £10,981 has been expended to date RADIOGRAM, MIALLO STATE SCHOOL. on wages, plant, and equipment. In addi­ tion, £6,663 has been expended on arsenic Mr. WORDSWORTH (Cook) asked the pentoxide for the project.'' Secretary for Public Instruction- '' In reference to the radiogram which PETROL PRICES, CAIRNS. was promised for delivery to the :Miallo State School, via Mossman, over two lUr. WATSON (Mulgrave) asked the months ago, what is the reason for non­ Attorney-General- delivery of such instrumenU'' " I_n reference to his answer to my questwn on 20 March last, in which he lion. G. H. DEVRIES (Gregory) stated that because of rejection of requests replied- by the Commonwealth Government it was ''The radiogram for Miallo State not possible to establish uniform prices School, with a quantity of similar material for petrol at Queensland ports and his for other schools, has been packed and answer on 3rd instant to the ho;1. member awaits despatch. It is expected that it for Hinchinbrook, will he now kindly give will go forward within a few days. The further consideration to my request on 2 volume of work which has to be handled ~eptember last that uniform petrol prices by the ~ections of the department con­ m zones should be instituted in Queens­ cerned >nth supply of this equipment has land~··' prevented any earlier delivery.'' Government's Hospital Policy. [9 OcTonE:tt. Government;s Hospital Policy. 6Hf

PAPERS. Last year I was privileged to visit Cunnamulla and to inspect many fine The following paper was laid on the table, hospitals in the West, and I was very pleased and ordered to be printed- to learn what this Government had done for Report of the State Government Insurance the people in those areas. We were privileged Office for the Year 1951-1952. to be able to attend the opening of new nurses' quarters at the Roma Hospital, which The following papers were laid on the this State may well be very proud of. It is table- our nim to provide similar quarters at othe1· Order in Council under the Labour and hospitals. Hospitals boards throughout the Industry Acts, 1946 to 1952 (2 October). State are ver.r eager to have such provision Regulation under the Traffic Acts, 1949 made for their nurses, because they realise to 1952 (2 October). ihat thev must have contented nursing staff if they arc to continue to give the very fine service that is at present being given through­ GOVERNMENT'S HOSPITAL POLICY. out Queensland. However, because of the failure of the Federal Government to provide RESUMPTION OF DEBATE. the necessary loan moneys, some ~ospitals Debate resumed from 2 October (see p. boards that have already had therr loans 532) on Mr. Wood's motion- approved are unable to find any institutions that will give them the necessary :finance to '' 1. That this Parliament emphatically complete their buildings. It is a very sad protests against the proposal of the Com­ state of affairs in a young country such as monwealth Government to withhold moneys this-a country that must progress and that rightly due to Queensland for hospital pur­ desires to have fine buildings erected-that poses, unless the State Government aban­ the Federal Government, by adopting such a dons free treatment in public hospitals. financial policy should deprive us of our '' 2. That this Parliament approves the rights. I contend that the sooner the Government's policy of provision of free Government in the Federal sphere are treatment for patients in public wards of changed, the better it will be for this State public hospitals and supports the existing generally. system whereby payment is made by the As a result of this Government's hospital Commonwealth Social Services Department system, we have been able to establish of eight shillings per day per patient, or hospitals in many small centres. Dy appoint­ such greater amount as may be justified ing to those hospitals resident medical officers, by the expenditure of the State on hospital we have given to people in the smaller centres provision. medical services that they would not other­ '' 3. That this Parliament also strongly vvise have enjoyed. The fact that the doctors protests against the proposal of the have been able to obtain the nucleus of what Commonwealth Government to make pay­ they consider a reasonable living from the ment of the cost of lifesaving drugs used Government through the services they render in the treatment of patients in public at the hospitals, which can be added to by wards conditional on the State's entering private practice, has induced them to go to into an agreement which would mean the the country and to remain there and give reintroduction of the means test and pay­ valuable service to our people. ment for treatment by public patients in I admit, of course, that there are still" some public wards.'' centres that would be delighted to have the Mr. lUcCATHIE (Haughton) 11.9 a.m.): services to which I have just referred. I On Thursday last I was dealing with what have one in my own electorate. I refer to the Government had done since 1923 in the Giru, which is situated between Townsville construction of hospitals, and the building and Ayr, where there is no medical officer, of muses' quarters and other buildings, and either private or public. I have put a case I want to say today that since the introduc­ for Giru before the Minister on several tion of the scheme the Government have occasions, but so far we have not been able erected many modern hospitals in Queensland, to give the people of Giru the services of a nnd it has been their aim to put into those medical officer. However, the Government hospitals the latest equipment; they J;ave have been very sympathetic towards the kept themselves abreast with advances in people of Giru who have needed medical medical science. ·when one travels in Queens­ treatment, many of whom have been given lm;d, from north to south or from east to free passes to attend the general hospital at west, one is struck by the modern construc­ either Townsville or Ayr. Those people will tion of hospitals, and the very fact that be exceedingly pleased if the doctor at either those buildings have been erected and are the Townsville General Hospital or the Ayr still being erected is a tonic to the people General Hospital can visit Giru. who knew the conditions that prevailed in Whilst we have established such excellent Queensland prior to 1923. Any step that is hospital services, we have done much more. taken by the :E'ederal Government to effect Our Eventide Homes have taken away from a change in Queensland's present hospital the hospitals many of those old people who system cannot be other than a retrograde are considered to be chronic eases. They are step. We know that the system they are now receiving treatment at the various homes. now attempting to force us to adopt was a We have very fine establ;shments at Charters complete failure in Queensland, and we are Towers, Rockhampton and Sandgate. to look determined not to return to it. after these old people. So keen are the '620 Governmimt;s llos:pital Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Government'e Hospital Poltey.

people in North Queensland on the establish­ the Federal sphere. They; see that the' ment of the home at Charters Towers, which 1"ederal Government have failed Queeneland has been highly successful, that Townsville very dismally and they will alter the present is clamouring to have an Eventide Home :Federal Government at the earliest oppor­ established in their city. Last year and this tunity. year, and: even just recently, representations have been made to the Government for that -while Queensland has made such marked purpose. The Townsville City Council has advance in hospitalisation, other States have offered to provide the land and I am sure stagnated, and from the reading I have done that when finance is available the Govern­ in preparing my speech on this subject I ment will consider the establishment of such know that New South Wales and Victoria a home there. are in a particularly parlous position. We have given strong support to the Fly­ Figures reaching to 30,000 have been ing Doctor Service. In fact, this State gives quoted as the number of people on the more support to the Flying Doctor Service waiting list for hospital treatment in than any_ other State in the Commonwealth.• Victoria and New South Wales. It is I know the value of this service, especially absolutely certain that many of them will to the people in the back country. While I never get to hospital. They will die before was in Charleville last year I was able to they reach hospital. So serious has the appreciate the work that was being done by position become in those States that some Dr. Vickers and his staff from that centre, medical officers have been forced to select and I know that the service is of considerable patients to whom preference shall be given. help to the people in the outback generally. In other words, the medical officers have been forced into the position of playing ''God'' The Queensland hospitals system will be a with the sick, of deciding who shall have the monument to Labour administration. I repeat that Queenslanders are right behind the right to recover and who shall stay home to Premier when he says that we shall retain die. No medical officer should be forced into our present hospital system. None of us that position. We in Queensland admit that wants to go back to the years prior to 1918, there is a certain crowding in some of our and I am sure that the people of Queensland hospitals, particularly in the metropolitan are astounded that the Federal Government area, but we have no waiting lists. should attempt to force such a scheme upon Just to clinch my argument I will quote us. We know that they are withholding our from ''The Melbourne Herald'' of January contribution from us, a contribution that we 1951, which states that more than 10,000 sick as Queenslanders have paid through our people in Melbourne cannot get the hospital social-services tax. I contend that the treatment thev need. It is further stated Federal Government have no moral justifica­ in this article, that that occurred at a time tion for doing that, and I doubt whether when Federal income was soaring. The they have any legal right to do so. As one hospitals in Melbourne were forced to consider who pays social-services tax I contend that closing down some of their beds. They were their attitude towards Queensland is wrong forced to reduce accommodation by 1,000 and that they should give this State a grant beds. What a scandalous position in a and allow us to use it to further a hospital country that should be able to afford to give system that has proved so successful in this everyone the treatment he is entitled to and State. I further contend that we as Socialists where every sick person should have the right have done much to advance social legislation to enter hospital for treatment! We in in this State and that our hospital system is Queensland have not seen that state of affairs one that is a monument to us and will go and I hope we never shall, but if the present down in history as a benefit conferred by the Federal Govemment have their way with Labour Government on the people of Queens­ hospital finance we may be forced into such land. Because of our claim to have made a position. While the Federal Government advances in social legislation we contend that \Yere collecting much more money than in the as a sovereign State we should not be past, the States were being forced to reduce deprived of what we have contributed in the numbers of their hospital beds, because social-services tax, and as one who has con­ they could not meet the cost. We in Queens­ tributed in that way and as a Socialist, I land, who have been able to do so, and who make an emphatic protest against the atti­ will continue to do so, cannot understand the tude of the Federal Government and their position into which those States have drifted, arrogance in withholding from Queensland unless it is because Labour Governments in its just dues. We as a sovereign State can Queensland have always had much more vision look after our own hospital system and we than the Governments of other States, and have proved that we can look after it because our hospital policy, begun in 1923, is efficiently and as well as any other State in a sound one, so sound that we- have been able the Commonwealth. to develop a system that has won the praise I should be completely justified in main­ of the world. I know of the difficulty of taining that the action of the Commonwealth getting admission to hospitals in Sydney, for Government is but another attempt by the instance, only 18 months ago I was closely Menzies-Fadden Government to belittle associated with an attempt to get a man Queensland, an attempt to lower the prestige admitted to one of the Sydney hospitals who of the State under a Labour Government in had been struck down with polio in North the eyes of the people, but, far from having Queensland. Because his people were in that effect, it has made the people of Queens­ Sydney, and because he thought he would' get land realise how inept are these people in special physiotherapy treatment , there, he Government's Hospital Policy. [9 OoTOBER.] Government's Hospital Policy. 621 was anxious to be admitted to a Sydney hos­ Another statement in "The M;elbourne pital, but because he needed constant treat­ Herald'' showed that the public had almost ment in an iron lung he could not obtain reached a point of saturation so far as con­ admission, the hospital there having only two tributions to hospitals are concerned, and the such lungs, which were kept for emergencies. Federal Government are attempting to force He required daily treatment and we were not able to have him admitted for many weeks. something on them that will add to their Compare that with the position in Queens­ burdens. We in Queensland can and will land. If an iron lung is required in any hos­ keep away from that system. We have estab­ pital the Government see to it that it is there lished something of which we are proud and: if none is available the Government sees and we will continue it; and I am sure th~ to it that it is manufacured and supplied people of Queensland will show their apprecia­ immediately. When the doctor who was hand­ tion of it next year. ling the case I speak of returned from Sydney he told me very emphatically that our hos­ I wish to make a few comments on one pital system ''ran rings round anything in of the mo~t mode~n of our hospitals, that is, the New South Wales." From the reading I base hospital bmlt at Townsville and opened have done, I know that the position of public recently by the late Premier, the Hon. E. hospitals in Sydney and Melbourne must be ~- Hanlon. We in the North are delighted very precarious, especially when it is remem­ With what the Government have done in the bered that they are talking of closing down ~stablishment of this base hospital, which beds and that there is a waiting list that is IS a. boor: to that a~ea. In servicing our said to be approaching 30,000. This makes hospitals 1t has been the aim of the depart­ us realise how advantageously we are placed men~ and the board to see that highly­ in Queensland. The very fact that we have qualified doctors are appointed and that a such excellent hospitalisation in Queensland good nursing staff is available. At the base is further exemplified by the fact that Vic­ hospital we have built there are specialists toria has only 200 more hospital beds than to look after the needs of the people in the we have, although we have only half the North. Before thi~ system of base hospitals population. was set up, people m need of specialist treat­ ment were forced to come to Brisbane and (Time, on motion of Mr. Whyte, extended.) the long journey had a deleterious effe~t on many of them and endangered the chances of lUr. lUcCATHIE: The very fact that we recovery. N uw we find that many such cases have such splendid hospitalisation in Queens­ are being treated in North Queensland. If land makes our people wonder why the a patient needs treatment that is not avail­ Federal Government have not attempted to able in Townsville, he is sent to Brisbane. follow our system rather than force us into I am quite sure many hon. members of the the position of having to ask everyone to pay before he gets treatment even in a public Opposition, as well as of my own party, have ward. I contend that the amount given bv asked the department to have people brought the Federal Government and the amount a to Brisbane for specialist treatment. I have patient can get under some of the contribu­ had to go to the Minister on behalf of many tory insurance schemes will not pay for his of my constituents who through force of treatment in a public ward, because there circumstances were not able themselves to are extras that will be charged for. For meet the cost of transport and treatment those who enter private wards, fees up to and I have received a very good deal on £18 18s. are charged in southern hospitals, behalf of my constituents. I contend that and I am sure no-one wants to be forced these people are entitled to that but I realise to meet those costs. I contend that the that if the Federal Government proceed with scheme the Federal Government are attempt­ their scheme, many of the services we give ing to force on us cannot give us one more today will be jeopardised. We desire that hospital bed; all it can do is to force hos­ our sick should have everything of the best pital authorities to give those who can pay and we will make every effort to continue the the right to beds in hospitals, and many of services that we give. On occasions I have the people we are now caring for-those approached the department in connection in the lower and middle income groups­ with patients suffering from that rare blood will not be able to get treatment. We are disease, leukaemia. The Press sometimes absolutely certain that we can continue our gives publicity to the fact that sufferers scheme and we will continue it; and I venture are being taken to Sydney or Melbourne to prophesy that the people will show their but it is very seldom that the Press publicises appreciation of it in no uncertain manner the part the Department of Health and Home at the next Federal election. In Queensland Affairs of the Queensland State Government it has been our aim to provide treatment plays in giving that treatment. I had to for everyone. We do not attempt to force approach the Minister on behalf of a con­ into the public wards of our hospitals people stituent who was unfortunate enough to have who wish to have private treatment, but we a child suffering from this rare disease. do contend that those entitled to treatment Arrangements were made to have the child in the public wards should get it free. I brought down at once but unfortunately, in can well understand the thought in the minds the specialist's opinion, the treatment would of the Opposition, that it is easy enough be too late. The child died. The depart­ for the people to get into a scheme but ment is always ready to give every neces­ people who have enjoyed the benefits of sary help to our people and we do not want our system do not want to be forced to pay to lose any of the facilities that we now have. any more. We must not have them jeopardised and we 622 Government's Hospital Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Government's Hospital Policy.

fear that if the Federal Government do not Queensland public, who depend largely on give us the grant to which we are entitled, the local Tory Press for their information, some of our services may be jeopardised. have. not had this side of the case put before I appreciate what has been stated in them, but we hope that when they do appre­ ''The Brisbane Telegraph,'' a paper th2t ciate what has happened in the southern has come out very strongly in favour of States and what is going on there today Queensland's stand on free hospitalisation. they will be adamant in their determination I contend that the publicity given by to retain the. Queensland system that has the Press in the South to the failure of operated so successfully over the years. this scheme would make people in Queensland Further, we have the following statement realise just how valuable is our scheme and made by Senator Tangney o;t 11 September, before I resume my seat I intend to quote when commenting on the. subject in Perth­ certain statements from the southern Press '' Charge at Perth Hospital for public that will indicate what is happening and has cases is 35s. a day.'' happened in the South. Here, for instance, She was speaking about the case of a sufferer we give free cancer treatinent. Tuberculosis from a chronic-disease, whose admission to the treatment is free, and the latest move is the hospital was deferred pending inquiries as establishment of a chest clinic. We shall to who would accept responsibility for his supplement that treatment with a mobile fees. plant that will travel throughout the State. That brings us to the question: who is Our hospital system must r.emain as it is going to bear the cost of the Earle Page because it has proved its worth over the years. scheme~ I venture the opinion_ t_hat it will The other States have failed dismally and, be necessary to set up another department with the exception of Tasmania, would wel­ with a host of de.rks because one of the come anything that would give them some requirements is that a person must have his relief. They are like a drowning man clutch­ subscriptions paid to the minute before he ing at a straw and so the Commonwealth is admitted to hospital. The -cost of adminis­ scheme appealed to them, but it did not tration will be enormous. Senator Tangney appeal to Tasmania in the same way. When went on to say that she could see that the you read some of the statements made in hospital was more. intent on collecting this the southern Press, you realise the parlous charge than in providing accommodation for position the southern States have got into. the patient who could not undertake to pay. "The Melbourne Argus" of 6 July, 1951, Those who could not pay were forced to has in block type the headline, ''Country bear the taint of pauperism. She said that hospital cheques may not be honoured.'' And one patient was refused admission to hospital the Minister for Health made this statement- and he subsequently took his life by drowning '' Banks might soon dishonour cheques in the. Swan River. of country public hospitals, so deeply were the hospitals in debt." Hon. members opposite here, who support the Menzies-Fadden Government in their And in the same paper this also appeared- attempt to deprive this State of its just '' 'In the Taising of money from the public rights, fear to go before the people next year I believe we have reached saturation point,' because they know that they are strong in said Mr. 'raylor, the manager-secretary of their support of the scheme operating here the Geelong Base Hospi'al." now, the Queensland free-hospital scheme, and Despite such articles, which appear from t~me we all know that the Queensland Government to time, the Federal Gove.rnment are forcmg will continue to provide sound hospitals on the people of Australia a scheme that throughout the State. requires payment by the patient before hos­ pital treatment is given. Another interesting article appears in ''The Melbourne. Argus '' of 22 January, 1952, Here is anothe.r article headed, ''Over­ under the heading "Hospital ·Turns Many crowded casualty ward a shambles.'' It says­ Casualties Away." It says- '' The seven bunks and five trolleys all '' Tiny Ward Packed Out. bore patients and five of the seven mobile "Casualties had to be turned away from chairs had been pressed into use.'' St. Vincent's Hospital's tiny, outmoded That was in a room 14 fe.et by 8 feet. It casualty ward last night because it could states further- not cope with them. '' If any serious accident had occurred ''Packed tight in the 14 feet by 8 feet they would have had to r0organise the whole ward, they said it was scandalous that such set-up.'' archaic conditions existed at one of Mel­ We do not have. that under our Queensland bourne's major public hospitals.'' free-hospital scheme, but it. is a frequent We do not have that in Queensland and I am occurrence in the souther!l SLates, where they confident that our people will continue to fail to appreciate what we have. done. Then show their appreciation of this Government's we find that ''The Sydney Morning Herald'' action by supporting us strongly because they says- are bewildered at the attitude of the present '' Thousands turned away from hospitals.'' Federal Government in withholding our just Thousands of people were turned away from dues from us. hospitals to die because the.re was no room Everyone realises that he pays social-service for them. The southern Press has been full taxation, and those of us who wish to see our of such articles, but we in Queensland have fellows get what they are entitled to do not not the opportunity of seeing them. The mind paying it. I contend that those of us Government's Hospital Policy. (9 OCTOBER.] Gove1·nment's Hospital Policy. 623 who are really interested in Socialism are doctor of his own choice and to have private prepared to pay a little more in order to see treatment. As evidence of that, I have only that those not so well placed as ourselves to look round members occupying the Govern­ get the amenities and care they are entitled ment benches. Some of them have been sick, to. I have heard it said that every one of but have they gone into a public hospital for us should defend our country, and I am treatment, or have they gone into private certain that everyone who lives in the country hospitals of their own choice~ Because of is entitled to get the best the country can their financial position they have been able give him. Under our hospital system, devel­ to enter hospitals of their own choice. So oped in this State since 1923, we can give a why should they deny that privilege to the lead to the world. The people of this State general body of the people of Queensland~ have appreciated our actions. I know from my observations and from conversations I As further evidence of my statement that have had in the metropolitan area and in the the people of Queensland prefer doctors and North that people are bewildered at the hospitals of their own choice, let us look at attitude adopted by the Commonwealth Gov­ the pensioners. Do we find many pensioners ernment and will show in no uncertain -way now going to the out-patients' departments that they want us to continue our scheme of our hospitals~ The answer is definitely and at the next Federal election they will no. As the result of the present Federal see to it that a Federal Labour Government­ Government's health scheme for pensioners, and it was a Labour Government who gave the pensioners of Australia have the right to contributions up to Ss. a day to Queensland choose their own doctors and enjoy the right and the other States-are returned to power. of domiciliary treatment, and they are very happy to avail themselves of those rights. Dr. NOBLE (Yeronga) (11.42 a.m.): The Let us look, too, at the Women's Hospital. IYhole purpose of the motion moved by the I can remember the time when there was only hon. member for North Toowoomba and one ward in that hospital for intermediate and seconded by the hon. member for Haughton private patients. Today, however, there are is, to my mind, to attempt to discourage the three floors for intermediate and private Federal Government at Canberra from imple­ patients and only one for public patients. menting for the good of the people of this Every new bed that has been provided at State and the people of Australia as a whole that hospital has been an intermediate bed. a very worthy and excellent scheme. The Because the mothers of this community have Queensland Government are doing this for been receiving a maternity allowance from one purpose, because in their minds they the Federal Government, they have been able think that if they resist the Federal Govern­ to get private treatment and have doctors of ment's efforts to implement the scheme it will their own choice. That has forced this help them politically at the next election. Government to convert many public beds in They are again playing party politics at the the ·women's Hospital to intermediate beds. expense of the people of Queensland. I could tell hon. members, from my own I listened very attentively to the two experience and that of many other doctors, of speeches that have been delivered on this people who have come to me and asked me to motion. The arguments advanced by both treat them in a public hospital, but I have speakers were unconvincing, and I hopE' to had to explain to them that because there o·how this House how much the Federal Gov­ was no provision for an insurance scheme ernment are doing for the people of Australia that would enable them to enter a private :md how much they_ propose to do in the hospital, they would have to go into a public future. We have nothing to apologise for hospital. Under the new scheme, however, in the Sir Earle Page health scheme; I am when it comes into full force next year, not here to defend it, because we are proud those people will have the right to go into Df it, and I say sincerely. that it is an hospitals of their own choice and to be excellent scheme and somethmg that we can treated by doctors of their own choice. be proud of. Far from destroying free hospitalisation, which incidentally has been lUr. Brown: And they will get a pretty the main argument of the Government, this big bill for it, too. scheme opens up an era of the greatest Dr. NOBLE: Let us have a look at this freedom in medical care that this country big bill. At the present time I have a has ever known. The scheme provides for patient occupying a bed at St. Helen 's freedom of choice of medical practitioners. Hospital costing £10 10s. a week, but she is It ensures that every person shall have the receiving £12 12s. a week from the insurance right, not the privilege, of choosing the fund. She is actually making £2 2s. a weelt. doctor he wfshes to attend him. It gives As I say, when members of the Govern­ also freedom of choice of hospitals, allow­ ment need medical treatment they consult a ing the patient to go into the one he desires doctor of their own choice, but they want to to enter, not always a public one. deny that privilege to the general public of It provides also for domiciliary treatment, Queensland. which this Government do not provide for. I was amazed to hear the previous speakers I can assure hon. members that the people of to this motion more or less imply that the Queensland look forward very keenly to the Federal Government had no sense of responsi­ time when they will have the right, with the bility towards the health welfare of the implementation of the Federal Government's people of Australia. According to them, hospital scheme, to domiciliary treatment. Labour Governments are the only ones who Where possible, everyone desires to have a give consideration to the health of the nation. 624 Government's Hospital Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Government's Hospital Policy.

Let us, however, look at what the Menzies­ Dr. NOBLE: They have not come into Fadden Government have done since assuming it. This year the Menzies-Fadden Govern­ office a few years ago; let us look at the ment are paying £1,600,000 towards free generous amo1l.nts of money they have paid milk for the children, an increase of out every year in the interests of the health £1,600,000. of this nation. I intend to discuss this Now let us turn our attention to the mental matter under three headings: what was paid hospitals. Did the Chifley Government have out by the Chifley Government in their last the welfare of the people of Australia at year of office, what is being paid out in the heart~ Did they do anything towards the present year by the Menzies-Fadden Govern­ care of the mentally sick in Australia~ No. ment, and what is being gained by the people But this year the Menzies-Fadden Govern­ of Australia as the result of the generous ment are paying £520,000 towards the men­ attitude of the present Federal Government. tally sick, a gain of £520,000. The present Federal Government have the Let us look at the total sums representing welfare of the people of Australia at their the benefits provided by the two political very hearts. Let us see >vhat amounts have parties. Let us compare them to see which been spent in providing pharmaceutical bene­ Government have helped the people of Aus­ fits. ln the year 1948-1949 the Chifley Gov­ tralia as a whole. The Chif!ey Government ernment provided the small sum of £149,000 paid the small sum of £7,169,000, whereas the for pharmaceutical benefits, whereas this year Menzies-Fadden Government's payment for the Menzies-Fadden Government propose pay­ this financial year is £29,240,000, an increase ing £7,000,000 or an increase of £6,851,000. of £22,071,000 or 408 per cent. The payments (Interruption.) for medical benefits amounting to £8,000,000 to come into force next year will represent an lUr. SPEAKER: Order! I ask hon. increase of 500 per cent. in a total year over members to allow the hon. member to make what the Chifley Government paid in the past. his speech without interruption. I want to I think those few figures will suffice to show warn all hon. members that continual inter­ that the Menzies-Fadden Government have a ruption is highly disorderly. I have no desire greater interest in the welfare of the people to take action against any hon. member but of Australia than Labour Governments haYe all hfm. members must obey my call to ord:er. ~hown in the past. The hon. member should be allowed to make his speech without interruption. They have realised since they have been in office ·owing to the high cost of medical Dr. NOBLE: Thank you very much, treatment. that some form of health scheme Mr. Speaker. In 1948-1949 the Chifley Gov­ has been necessary. Let us look at the way Prnment provided the sum of £6,886,000 for these costs have increased in the last few hospital benefits, whereas the Menzies-Fadden years. (Government interjections.) Government propose to pay £12,420,000, a gain of £5,534,000. lUr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Farrell): The hon. member for Hanghton referred to Order! Mr. Speaker has already called the tuberculosis treatment. How much did the attention of hon. members to disorderly Chifley Government pay towards the fight interjections and if they are continued I shall be forced to deal with hon. members. against this dread scourge in Australia W Only the small sum of £134,000, whereas the Dr. NOBLE: The cost of medical treat­ Menzies-Fadden Government this year propose ment in hospitals has risen over the last few to spend £4,590,000, a gain of £4,450,000. Is years. The cost per bed per patient the that being mean or is it being generous~ year before the war was 12s. lld., or £4 4s. What did the Chifley Government do for a week, and after the war the cost rose to the medical benefit of pensioners in this £1 17s. 6d. a day, or £13 2s. 6d. a week. country~ Did they do anything to help the 'rhis year the estimated average cost of pensioners with their medical services~ No, treatment per patient in Queensland is £2 5s. they paid nothing towards their medical care, a day or £15 15s. a week. Why have these vihereas this year the Menzies-Fadden Gov­ costs risen to such an extent~ Firstly, the ernment nronose to spend £1,160,000 or a gain rise in salaries absorbed 62 ]'er cent. of the of £1.160.000. available money for our hospitals. As a Did the Chifley Government do anything in matter of fact, when the 44-hour week came connection with medical benefits W No, noth­ into operation-this is very interesting-the ing at all, yet this year up to June next the increase in the cost of running the Brisbane J\fenzies-Fadden Government propose to spend: General Hospital in one financial year, as £1,145,000, which in a full financial vear will pointed out by the Brisbane and South Coast he increased to £8,000,000. The increase this Hospitals Board a few years ago, repre­ year is £1,145,000. sented the huge sum of £200,000. A large Now let us have a look at the free milk increase in the lay staff was necessary scheme. A similar scheme was founded in of between 200 and 250. At the present England during the war and it was of won­ time the Brisbane General Hospital is employ­ derful assistance to the children there in ing in the vicinity of 2,350 people. The pay­ improving their health and their morale. The ment of penalty rates and shift rates also Queensland Government have refused to come bump np the cost of running the hospital. into the Commonwealth Government's free Again, there is an increase in the price of milk scheme. foodstuffs, drugs and dressings. When it is realised that every year this hospital uses JUr. Devries: We have not. 500,000 lb. of bread, 200,000 gallons of milk, Government's Hospital Policy. [9 OCTOBER.] Government's Hospital Policy. 625

567,000 lb. of meat, 43 tons of butter, is only an infant in Socialist phil­ 1,112,000 dozen eggs, and that 3,356,000 meals osophy compared with the Federal Leader are prepared, one can realise the reason for of the Opposition. They saw Socialism at this high cost. In the laundry in the Brisbane work in England; they saw the failings of General Hospital, 8,500,000 articles are thP socialised medical service there. They laundered each year, absorbing 300 tons of Ycere aware of the conditions that are des­ soap. This load of costs, unless some relief is cribed in this article in ''The Sydney Daily obtained under the scheme initiated by Sir Telegraph'' at the end of last year dealing Earle Page for hospital services, will cripple with nationalisation in England, and national the State. health:- Let us look at the actual figures of running '' In fact, this lack of careful planning our hospital, and then ask ourselves: is our and failure to work out priorities seems to hospital system really free~ Let us look at be one of the most striking features of the total cost. Let us take into consideration nationalised industry in praetice, as each the amount of tax collected by this Govern­ colossus proceeds on its own way, higgledy­ ment from its own stamp duties and succes­ piggledy. sion duties, etc. Last year this Govern­ "It is also a feature of that other ment collected by such taxe.s £_5,870,000, but 'nationalised industry' - the health the total expenses of our hospitals was services. £6,171,000. Actually, when the year ended, ''Originally the Government 'planned' a the Government had spent £6,387,000 on National Health Service that would cost hospitals. Therefore, the amount of £126,000,000, a year. In 1950-1951 the money this State takes in taxation from the Health Scheme costs had risen to only source it has to tax at the present time £400,000,000, and the Government set a is completely eaten up in hospital expenses. limit at that figure, telling people they The Government allocate to hospitals from could pay half the cost of their false teeth the Golden Casket £1,000,000, and receive and spectacles. from the Commonwealth a contribution of ''Soon quality will deteriorate unl~ss £630,000 and payments under the pharma­ more services are charged for. Faced with ceutical benefits scheme of £100,000, leaving rising costs, hospitals must cut some of the net amount of money to be found by them their services to keep within their budgets. for hospitals £4,441,000. We find in this year's Budget that the amount set aside for hos­ ''Excessive fees paid to dentists h~ve pitals from these sources is £4,600,000, and already ruined the school dental serviCe. the taxation estimated to be obtained from Anti-T.B. campaigns and medical research the sources I mentioned is £6,650,000. If we have suffered because money must be found look at this sum for a mome.nt, we realise to keep other services free. Insufficient that while this Government talk about the fees are encouraging general practitioners high taxation of the Federal Government they to shoot too many patients off to hospital are actually increasing their own taxation specialists. by 20 per cent. from the only tax source they '' 'l'he trouble is that the Government had have. While the Government expect to receive no positive plan for improving the J:ea_lth £6,650,000 in taxation this year from their services; it just wanted to control ex1stmg only tax resource it is expected that the services and make them free. expenditure by the Government on public ''Therein lies the greatest weakness of hospitals will be £6,920,000. Again the cost nationalisation as a practical idea.'' of our hospitals is eating up our entire. income. When you look at these figures it is In other words, the Federal Government, quite clear-and any right-thinking person looking for a health scheme to introduce into would say so-that unless some relief is given Australia and realising the unpractical way to the financial strain of our hospital system, in which the Socialist Government went about its costs will cripple it, and it will also pre­ it in England, ruining their economy as they vent money from being made available for did at the same time, and realising that, educational purposes, etc. worst of all, with a completely socialised medical service standards of medical treat­ Mr. lloore: Education or health? ment deteriorate and research and anti-T.B. campaigns and campaigns generally fall back, Dr. NOBLE: They are complementary. decided that there could be no place for a The Federal Government realised that completely socialised scheme of medicine in something had to be done in this very vital Australia, if the economy of the country was matter and they wished to find the best to be maintained and the standards of our system to introduce. They could have intro­ medical practitioners were to remain on ~he duced a completely socialised scheme, as in high level they occupy at present. Beanng England, but they did not. The Menzies­ this in mind, the Federal Government, Fadden Government went back to power in actuated also by a desire to rehabilitate the Canberra on a policy of anti-Socialism, and morale of the Australian people-believing their policy was very convincingly supported that it was important to make them realise by the people of Australia, and they will their financial responsibilities in various ways, approach the people with the same sort of principally for their own care-brought into policy at the next election. The people of being the voluntary national insurance Australia realise that in the present Federal benefits scheme, which is the only one that Leader of the Oppo·sition you have the areh­ could ever be worked in a practical and Socilist of all time. Mr. Aneurin Bevan, who economic way, and in a way suitable to the is' splitting up the Labour Party in England, people of this country. <626 Government's Hospital Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Government's Hospital Policy.

Now for a moment let us turn to America: already said in this Chamber, I do not think since the voluntary insurance scheme came that anyone in Queensland will deny that, as into being there in the last few years, for regards the pharmaceutical benefits sectim;, the past four years an insurance company this scheme has been of great benefit to this called the Blue Cross Insurance Co. has a State and Australia. At some time or another membership of 52,000,000, and another insur­ everyone has gained some benefit or other ance company formed by the American under this scheme and last year the total dis­ Medical Association has already in four years, bursements in Australia for this part of the .a membership of 26,000,000. Allowing for scheme totalled approximatel;y £7,000,000 . the dependants in America it is estimat\:.d Last year this State received the huge sum of that at the present time 90 per cent. of the £921,000 for pharmaceutical benefits, of which ,people of the United States of America have £90,000 went to our public hospitals. The.re insured voluntarily against the cost of m€.dical is no need to labour this part of the scheme treatment. In America at the present time because everyone knows how beneficial it is there are approximately only 10 per cent. of and applauds the Federal Government for the people who could be classe.d under our having introduced it. medical service scheme as public hospital I should like to emphasise again that even patients--the Government having to incur though this State Government have refused ~o the full cost of their treatment. The standard co-operate with the Federal Government m of living in Australia is analogous to the their hospital scheme, people who enter .standard of living in America, and I contend private and intermediate wards of an;r hos­ that he.fore very long the same position will pitals and those who attend doctors pr.Ivately .arrive in Australia; 90 per cent of the people will benefit under the scheme and this year will have insured against the co~t of medical it is expected that such people in this State and hospital treatment, to the ultimate benefit will benefit to the extent of about £S21,000. of the people, the economy of Australia, and to development and defence. Let us turn for a moment to the hospitalisa­ tion part of the Federal Government's scheme, Now I will quote some figures in regard and trace a little of its history. It will be to the health scheme. At the present time remembered that when costs of hospitalisa­ there are 66,000 people in lodges and 60,000 tion rose the Chifiey Government introduced of these, it is estimated, are pa~ing voluntary subsidies and paid the States 6s. a day per insurance towards their hospital care. There occupied bed. In return for that the States .are 2S,650 in the Medical Benefits Association had to promise that they would make beds of Australia and 17,000 people in what was available free of cost to the public. Later. known as the Blue Cross of Australia. this subsidy was increased by that same Gov­ It is estimated that one contributor to the. ernment to Ss. a day. The present Federal scheme is responsible for three dependants­ Government's scheme is divid'ed into two .one to three-'-so that in fact my figure was parts, the private and intermediate part and very low. Already in Queensland 315,615 are the public part, which is not operating _in eligible for hospital benefits. I should like Queensland at present because of the obstm­ to point out here that at the present time, ate refusal of this State Government tu for one scheme alone, the Medical Benefits co-operate with the Commonwealth Govern­ Fund of Australia, 3,500 people are joining ment, who wish to increase the subsidy to 12s. every month and the numbe.r is snowballing. a day for each bed and who desire to encour­ Those who have joined tell of the benefits to age people to help themselves and to impress those who have not joined. These people join upon them that they should as far as possible and then tell others of the henefits, and care for themselves. They also pay to people before very long, instead of 3,500 joining who are insured the sum of 12s. a day Bvery month, that number will be increased towards hospital care. very considerably. I think I am . right i_n People who enter private and intermediate pointing out that probably before this year IS hospitals will be paid Ss. a day, irrespective out or perhaps by the ·end of next year it will of whether they are insured, because the very be found that 90 pe.r cent. of the people of fact of their entering those private or inter­ Australia will have joined some form of mediate ward's is an indication that they national insurance and will not be a debt to intend to pay for their own medical care. the State as they are at present. As to the public section of the scheme, the As I said in my spee.ch on the Address in Commonwealth have said to the State Gov­ Reply, it is no use looking at this scheme ernments, ''If you will agree to make a from the point of view of hospitalisation charge for your public hospital care, we are only if we are to give hon. members and the prepared to carry on the subsidy of Ss. per people of Queensland a full knowledge of occupied bed, and we are also prepared to pay what is covered by the. Federal Government's 12s. a day to those who are insured ~nd are health scheme. Each section of the scheme in public hospitals.'' Those who are msured is supplementary to the other, and I should will also receive 6s. a day from their medical like to point out some details. In the scheme assistance fund, so that their total payment there are three main parts; the pharma­ will be 1Ss. a day. This Stare objected to ceutical benefits section, the hospital benefits that. section and the medical section. There are also s~bsidiary sections, such as the T.B. Let us see how the scheme could be adminis­ campaign, free milk service.s, mental hospital teTed. A patient, upon leaving a public hos­ services, and maternity allowance. pital, will be presented with a bill: The officer in charge of that department wrll ask, And now to look at the scheme in detail, ''Are you insu~ed ~" If the patient is insured, and at the risk of repeating what I have there is no more worry, because he will receive Government's Hospital Policy. [9 OcTOBER.] Government's Hospital Policy. 621

I2s. a day from the Commonwealth Govern­ test at the Brisbane Dental Hospital ment, plus 6s. from the insurance fund, so was concerned he had to ''wipe'' it that in all he will be receiving ISs. a day or because the rich were driving the poor £6 6s. a week, which could be approximately away from that Hospital. That state of the charge made by public hospitals. As soon affairs would exist at other hospitals in as this State Government sign on the dotted Queensland before long-we could not get line, as every other State Government have the requisite number of beds, there would be done, as soon as they agree to take part in the a shortage of beds and the same position scheme, every patient in a public hospital would arise whereby the poor would be pushed will in1111ediately receive Ss. a day towards the out by the rich. The Brisbane General Hos­ cost of his hospital treatment, whether he is pital, which was supposed to have an alloca­ insured or not. If a patient leaving hospital tion of 850 beds, has a daily average of informed the officer in charge that he was not I,250 patients, in other words holding insured, that oflieer-if the State Government half as many again. Many hospitals in do not want to be too particular in chasing this State are obsolete and there is little accounts and desire to carry on with their ·possibility of getting sufficient money to system of free hospitalisation, as at the pre­ make them modern unless new money is sent time (and I have in mind that this is injected into the health scheme. The only what they would do if the patient leaving way to do that, without crippling the State, hospital said' he could not afford to pay for is through co-operation in the Sir Earle Page the hospital care)-could make a note of the scheme. fact and let the patient go on his way, and he weuld be troubled no further. The Gov­ I made a statement during my Address in ernment in effect would be saying, ''We will Reply spe.ech that if the Government were to take your word as a good Queenslander that insure every patient in Queensland they could you cannot pay and we will let you go on use £500,000 of Casket money and get back your way.'' The patient would thus leave £2,500,000. I believe that an insurance hospital without paying anything, but at the company will insure everyone in Quee.nsland same time the State Government would be for £500,000 if the Government take up the getting Ss. a day for the hospitalisation. I challenge. am not saying I would do this myself-but lUr. Wood: Who said it would not? this Government could if they so desired. JUr. Burrows: That is a lovely question Dr. NOBLE: I hope the Government accept my suggestion. to ask: can you afford to pay~ 'l'he number of public beds in Queensland Dr. NOBLE: I ask the hon. member for is 8,757, and if they were occupied 365 clays Port Curtis whether people who board a a year, at ISs. a day it would work out at train are asked whether they can afford to £2,876,670, which is actually £300,000 more pay the fare. I have no doubt that before than I _mentioned in my previous speech. I2 months are up 90 per cent. of the people of Queensland will have become insured as And now let us look at the low cost of in America. ill§uring under the insurance scheme, and I have it on good authority that later on, when lUr. Smith: You said 95 per cent. a the full scheme is implemented, these costs ·while ago. will be lowered. In the case of hospitalisa­ Dr. NOBLE: I said 90 per cent. of the tion, to obtain £2 2s. a week from a medical people of America were insured and I say benefits society, the cost to a person under now that 90 per cent. of the people of 2I, either male or female, is 3c1. a week. J!'or Queensland will be insured within I2 months, a female over 2I the cost is also 3d. a week. and then this business of asking people For a male over 2I the cost is 6d. a week. whether they can afford to pay will not That takes into account his family too. To amount to veTy much. I have already pointed obtain £4 4s. a week the costs are out that if a person says he cannot afford respectively 6d., 6d., Is. and Is., and to obtai11 to pay, there is no need to go into his £6 6s. a week they are respectively 9d., 9c1., financial status. It would simply be a case Is. 6d. and Is. 6d. of letting him go if the Government wished No-one can tell me that those costs are to keep the hospital system free. high. Many people in Queensland spend I have already said that the other States money every week in the Golden Casket, which of the Commonwealth are co-operating and is a very wasteful way of financing our it is about time this Government came into hospitals. Every year the sum of £4,220,000 line. The main reason why the other States is extracted from the pockets of the people have co-operated in the Sir Earle Page scheme by the State Government, and it is by no is that the hospital payment has jumped from means from the pockets of the people who Ss. to I8s. a day towards the cost of main­ can afford it. In the main, the people who taining hospitals. We know that with the buy tickets in the Golden Casket are poor means test as applied by the Chiftey Govern­ people. As I say, every year the Queensland ment there was relatively a shortage of beds, State Government mulct the people of and, what is more, wher·e there was no means Queensland of £4,500,000, from which they test the rich tended to force· the poor out of get only £I,200,000 for the maintenance of the hospitals. This would oecur in Queens­ their hospitals. land, especially with this State's huge growth (Time, on motion of Mr. Low, extended.) in population. At a Premiers' Conference, the Pr·emier of this State said that so far Dr. NOBLE: I thank hon. members for as the principle of having no means their courtesy. 628 Government's Hospital Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Government's Hospital Policy.

This Government, who are supposed to have by the Federal Government from a medical at heart the welfare of the people of Queens­ assistance fund. This will give people the land, are mulcting each year those who can right to choose their own doctor all;d their least afford it of the sum of £4,500,000. nwn hospital, a right always exercised by The Golden Casket is not improving the hon. members opposite when they need hos­ morals of the people. The Government are pital treatment. It will cover, as minimum shelving the report of the Royal Commi~sion benefit.>, medical treatment, analyses, surgery, Qn Off-the-course Betting because . midwiferv. dislocations, fractures, vaccina­ (Government interruptions.) tions and injections. At the present time the hospital benefits svstem envisages optional Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! benefits of x-ray mid pathological treatment. I believe that negotiations are taking place Dr. NOBLE: The Golden Casket is a very wasteful way of financing any institu­ now and by the time that the benefit s~heme tion, and only £1,200,000 out of £4,500,000 is implemented next year the two Will be is available for hospitals. included. There will also be a hospital section for plastic, orthopaedic and ophthalmic, not Another objection raised against the at present covered by the medical benefits Federal Government's scheme was that it did scheme. This scheme does cover the great ~ot cover over-age people·. However, it is bulk of medical care and treatment and the now being extended to cover those peop'le, so people of Australia will· applaud the Federal that that objection no longer exists. It was Government for it. Qbjected to also because it excluded people Let us now consider the question of costs. suffering from chronic illnesses. However, They will be greatly reduced when the Fed­ when it comes into full force next year those eral Government implement their scheme early people will be subsidised. Rome was not next year. Let us consider some of the built in a day, and this scheme cannot be costs, first of all those relating to the general built in a day. However, 12 months hence practitioner and the diagnostic services. At we shall have a far better idea of its value. the present time, for a male and female under The probationary period also was mised as 21 years, it is 6d. a week, a female over 21, an objection, but I believe that too is to be 9d. a week, a male over 21, 9d., a family deleted from the scheme. As a matter of man 1s. 6d. and for surgical and specialist fact, I feel quite certain that when the whole treatment an extra 6d., 9d., 9d., and 1s. 6d. scheme comes into force and when most of Now let me take the combined scheme, the the people are insured, they will applaud the general practitioner, the diagnostic services, }'ederal Government. the specialist and surgical services. At the Mr. Wood: Would you explain how all present time on a voluntary basis the cost this helps the patient in a public ward~ to a male and female under 21 is 1s. Od. a Dr. NOBLE: I have not the time to do week, a female more than 21 years of age that. ls. 6d. a week, a male over 21, 1s. 6d. a week and the family man 3s. Od. a week. Under the Federal Government's scheme \Vhei~ the Federal Government come into the the payment to Queensland last year would scheme these sums will be considerably l1ave been .!:630,000 and this year it would reduced and may even be halved. The Com­ have been £839,000. If the Queensland monwealth Government will pay this year for Government had come into the scheme the those insured in Queensland at present the public hospitals in this State would have sum of £205,000 and it is estimated that it received £100,000 by way of pharmaceutical will cost them next year at the present rate benefits or, all-told, an increase in all benefits of increase in those insuring a sum of from £630,000 to £1,000,000. That is what £1,500,000 and perhaps more. this State would have got in hospital sub­ sidies if it had come into line with the other I have given the three main parts of the States of Australia. scheme, the pharmaceutical benefits, the hos­ pital section and the medical benefits. Now Before I leave the subject of hospital let us have a look at some of the subsidiary benefits I should like to say again that I am sections, for example, tuberculosis. Be~ore certain that in 18 months' time, or towards the present Federal Government came mto the end of next year, 90 per cent. of the power it was very hard to get a patient to people will have insured, as they have done have an X-ray if he thought he was suf­ in America in connection with such schemes, fering from tuberculosis because he realised and so the State Government will be forced that it might involve a loss of work for a by public opinion to provide more and more long time and that the security of his fami~y beds for intermediate patients and as a might be jeopardised. He di~ not. feel 1t result less monev will have to come from the was right for him to have a diagnosis made 11ublic purse to- support the hospitals to be because he feared for the security of his used for the greater benefit of the people family. The Commonwealth Government, in of the State. their wise health policy, realised that some­ I come now to the third part of the scheme, thing must be done to encourage a person the medical benefits section, which is based suffering from T.B. to present himself for a on a system of voluntary and national insur­ diagnosis so that he could be put into a hos­ ance. The Federal Government are endeav­ pital, isolated from people outsi~e to prevent ouring to, and will, carry out a policy of the spread of disease. and receive treatment encouraging medical benefit associations by so that he might be cured. We can look for­ subsidising their funds £1 for £1. Ultimately, ward through the Acts of the Federal Govern­ through this agency 95 per cent. of all the ment to the day when T.B. will disappear medical and surgical expenses will be met from Australia. Government's Hospital Policy. (9 OCTOBER.] Government's Hospita-l Policy. 629

The Menzies-Fadden Government decided the choice of doctors. The Federal Govern­ io make a pension available to these ment pay for his medical care. They pay 12s. unfortunate sufferers. The pension made a day towards his hospital care, whether he .available by the Menzies-Fadden Govern­ is insured or not. The pension medical health ment for the married man sufferer is no service in this State will cost the Federal mere pittance. They realise that these sufferers Government £250,000 this year. Never before have to be isolated in order that a cure could in the history of Federation have any Federal be effected, and the pension they proposed Government shown a greater desire than the for a married man was £8 5s. a week. Was present Federal Government to help the medi­ not that a generous gesture on the part of cal and mental institutions of the States. As the Federal Government~ I cannot under­ I said, this year they are paying_ £500,000 stand the Queensland Government making towards the treatment of patients m mental statements such as they do against the Men­ institutions and this State is receiving £94,000 zies-Fadden Government, who have shown by of that sum, a very fair share. e.-ery one of their actions that they have thP I think I have shown very clearly that this welfare of the people at heart. In the motion put forward by the hon. member for Budget they recently brought d'own they have North Toowoomba and the hon. member for increased the pension of married T.B. suf­ Haughton is, in fact, a false motion; it is ferer:! to £9 a week. In addition, every child one more attempt to disparage the Federal is allowed 9s. a week while the father is Gov·e.rnment. I think in their hearts members undergoing curative treatment. A single T.B. opposite realise that the Federal Government sufferer receives a pension of £5 per week are doing a good job for the welfare of the while he is undergoing treatment, and this people of Australia. amount has been increased in the last Budget to £5 10s. a week, a very generous increase. I quote the following figures again to show the amount spent on the health of the nation This policy of the Federal Government is by the last J;'ederal Labour Government and designed to prevent the incid'ence and spread the present Government. The last Labour of T.B. The sufferers are given free treat­ Government spent £7,169,000 and the present Jnent in hospital, and they and their families Government last year spent £29,240,000. are supported until they return to health. In contradistinction to that, hon. members JUr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (12.36 opposite should see to it that their Govern­ p.m.) : After listening to the allegations of ment's health laws are more strictly adminis­ germ-warfare-- tered. They should help to prevent the spread of T.B. by providing that all glasses JUr. Dewar: They did not include you. used in our public bars shall be sterilised :ilir. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hope hon. after being used. It is a disgrace to go into members on my left will consider their words one of our milk bars and see how the glasses before they utter them. I hope they will used are treated before being placed into discontinue that sort of thing. use again. The method adopted is an invita­ tion of the spread of disease. A glass, after lUr. TURNER: I rise to a point of order. use, is rinsed in lukewarm water only before Is the hon. membe.r in order in reflecting on being placed in use again, and in this way the hon. member for Port Curtis ~ any germ is given a little stimulus. This method does not minimise the spread· of lUr. DEPUTY

I wish to pay a tribute to the majorit:1· the opportunity of appreciating in a prac­ of memb€.rs of the medical profession-men tical way the value of the service that this who have devoted the greater part of their and former Labour Governments have estab­ lives to the care of the sick and maimed. lished and developed in this State. Inespec­ There are many names that should be per­ tive of what Labour Governments may or petuated. There were many medical men here may not have done in the past, the in the past and there are many here today hospital system of Queensland is a monu­ who put their profession before thier pockets. ment to the Christianity underlying the At the same time, there are tha.t loud·voiced motives of such members of the.Labour Party minority-the type who went on strike against as the late .James Stopford, the late E. M .. Chifley when he tried to introduce a Hanlon, and others. These men w.::.re respon­ free medical system-- sible for the introduction and development. ll!r. Sparkes: They put him right. of the grand hospital system in Queensland, which today is threatened because the Federal JUr. BURROWS: We have evidence of Government arc allowing themselves to be how right they put things when we read in the dictated to by a small minority of members newspapers of how the chemists have been of the B.M.A. exploiting the Government. It must not be forgotten that for every case one reads about Having had 21 years' experience as secre-· there are hundreds that do not become public. tary of a hospitals board, I can claim to. Why, only in this morning's paper one reads have a fair lmowledge of what the people got under our present hospitals scheme .. that when the investigators visited some Shortly after I was elected to Parliament,. homes they found medicine bottles that had I •ras unfortunate enough to contract pneu­ never been touched, medicine that had been monia. I was admitted to and treated at charged to the taxpayers of Australia because the Brisbane General Hospital and I wish the Menzies·Fadden Government want to to emphasise here that the treatment and placate the loud·voiced minority who are a nttention I received there, from the most disgrace to the medical profession. junior nurse up to the medical superintendent, 1\'Ir. Dewar: You would socialise the lot. could not be bettered anywhere in the world .. \Yhen I see an inesponsible-I use that word 1\lr. BURROWS: They are much lower and a lot more insidious than Communism, n<1vised1y-Government wanting to sacrifice· Socialism or any other 'ism': the. avaricious that system in order merely to placate the minority who have vested interests at stake. loucl·voiced minority, I become very resentful The hon. member who has just resumed his indeed. After all, it is well known that those· seat, who is a member of the medical profes­ who squeal the loudest are usually the most sion, showed very bad form in discussing the incompetent in their profession. This lo:rd­ matter in this Chamber because lie is per­ voiced minority of the B.M.A. want to dnve sonally interested in the issue. but after the patient away from our public hospitals. listening to the arguments he put forward They want to drive him to the . doctor's surgery where huge fees can be extorted from I am of the opinion that he did his case more harm than good. As I have said pre­ him before he receives any treatment. viously, men such as Dr. Royle and Dr. JUr. Sparkes: Tell us what happened Hunter of Sydney should be really sanctified. 20 years ago. As long as our memory lasts we should pay tribute to them. They did a service for the lUr. BURROWS: Let me go back 30 community and there are many others still years and point out that any P.erson >yho living in Queensland and in Australia who >mntecl to be admitted to a pub!Ic hosp1tal are more concerned about their profession had to be-- than about how much they will get out of Mr. Sparkes: Sick. it. However, there is the element that wants the taxpayer to build the hospitals and equip Mr. BURROWS: He had to be more them with expensive plant for its own than sick. First he had to furnish proof benefit. that he was in a position to pay, then he had to attend a doctor's surgery. In those 1\'Ir. Sparkes: Who builds the hospitals nowW •1nys the doctor might be playing poker, or he might be at a picture show, and it was lUr. BURROWS: The taxpayers. This not uncommon to see the ambulance carting element wants the taxpayers to erect these the patient round the town looking for the buildings, to provide the tools of trade so doctor in order to obtain a certificate for that it can come in and exploit the unfor­ admission to the hospital. If a person who tunate sick and suffering. The Federal could not pay was admitted and he said he Government, in their endeavour to foist this could not pay, a sign with the word scheme on the public, are only pandering to ' :.'~I 1per" on it was hung on his bed. I am the loud-voiced minority who, if they belonged Jn.y 33 years of age, and I am confident that to any other union, would be branded as other hon. members who are not even as old Communists. as that can remember when that state of What public service do the Federal Gov­ nffairs existed. If the Commonwealth Gov­ ernment propose to sacrifice in order to Prnment and Dr. Earle Page had their way, placate this greedy and selfish minority of that state of affairs would be forced upon the B.M.A. W In Queensland we have a us again today. hospital service with which every hon. member I was secretary of the first Gladstone is familiar, and he is indeed a very fortunate Hospitals Board appointed under the member of the. community who has not had Hospitals Act of 1923. When I took over my Government's Hospital Policy. [9 OcTOBER.] Supply. 631

,-(luties. I was told by the board that if the own health without being further worried matron wanted anything urgently between about financial affairs.'' Under this scheme meetings I had authority to get it. After will be the question, "Can you afford to the first meeting, I asked the matron whether pay~'' Irrespective of what v~rtues ~he there was anything she wanted, and she scheme might possess, that qu.es~wn wh1lst c,n id, "Is there anything we do not want." it remains is sufficient to damn 1t m the eyes of any decent Christian man. I said, ''Matron, if it is urgent we will get it, I will see the chairman; but if it is The hon. member for Yeronga is prepared 'not so urgent, make out a list of what you to throw in anything to emancipate this want and it will be submitted to the next undesirable element that has crept into the board meeting.'' She said, ''Mr. Burrows, medical profession of Australia. He sug­ it is only May now, but last night we did gested that the Queensland Government should not have enough blankets to go round and take £500,000 of public moneys. and insure we had to 1give some patients hot-water every person in Queensland, and m the same bottles to keep them warm.'' breath he attacked the Golden Casket and said it was a gamble. To carry _out some of ~y Jtlr. Sparkes: Did you get in touch with duties I have had to study msurance, whiCh the Premier, Mr. Forgan Smith~ is very aptly described in the textbook. as a bet. \Vhen you insure your house agamst Mr. BURROWS: No. I was able to buy fire the insurance company is literally betting a couple of dozen pairs of blankets to relieve you the amount insured against your premium the situation immediately-,-thanks to the late that your house will not be burned down in Jimmy Stopford, who introduced the scheme. the next 12 months. Similarly, if you insure The hospital gradually developed; an X-ray yourself against sickness an~ you do not plant and other costly equipment were suffer any sickness, you are hke the punter 1nstalled, and it became efficient and up to who backs a loser-you lose--and the insur­ date. But we had that unscrupulous and ance company is like the bookmaker-it avaricious type of doctor who wanted to put wins. Every day we read in the Press about the patient in hospital and charge him, and the punter walking home and the bookmaker who would use all the equipment that the riding home in his limousine. The hon: mem­ hospital had but would give nothing in ber for Yeronga suggests that the Govern­ return. That is the type of professional man ment should take £500,000 out of the public in the community we have to guard against; purse and have a gamble with an insurance that is the element in the community that company. I suppose a member of the Liberal Sir Earle Page is placating and pandering Party would get the commission on the to. He and the }"ederal Government are not premium. If the hon. member for Yeronga considering the old type of doctor who was suggested giving £500,000 to the hon. member prepared to give something, and give more for Mirani, or some other hon. member than he took out of the public hospital. In opposite, and asking him to take it to Eagle the old days we had the system where the Farm and put it on something in the Derby doctor could charge a patient and the hos­ it would be a more sensible proposal, because pital would treat him, but when the hospital I think there would be a ''goer'' in the sent the patient a bill he would say, "Unfor­ Derby. tunately I only had a few pounds and I gave I regret that I have no more time to that to the doctor. I thought that by paying elaborate on this subject. However, I realise him I was paying for everything.'' The to the full that a public service that the hospital, which had provided 24 hours' con­ people of this State at present enjoy is in tinuous service, including laundry and meals grave clanger of being sacrificed because, in in bed, and skilled nurses continuously attend­ their weakness. the }"ederal Gov

time as is confronting us. It is tragic that Mr. EASTMENT (Ithaca) (2.17 p.m.) : On behalf of my electors I desire to con­ we should be compelled to expend these gratulate the Treasurer and the party on the J·eserves at a time when in my opinion we progressive and positive Budget no1v under should have been able, had we received our consideration which is in direct contrast with just dues from the Federal Government, to' the tragic Budget brought down by the tra

-condition that we make a charge. That Throughout Queensland local authorities exemplifies the difference between the humane have benefited by the sympathetic adminis­ policy of Labour and the sectional-interests tration of the Labour Government, despite the policy of our opponents. I believe that the handicaps placed on them by increased rates answer of the people, when the next State and in other ways. In the last financial year election is held, will be very emphatic. loans to the local authorities of the State My next point is in reference to our rural amounted to £6,000,000, of which £2,000,000 policy. Much work is being done by the was subsidy. In addition to this, an amount of £18,000,000 has been found by the Gov­ Department of ~'>cgriculture and Stock to help ernment to help local authorities for drain­ primary production throughout the State. age and their other activities, notwithstand­ We notice by the Press that field days are ing which hon. members opposite assert that being held very frequently at various places the Goven1ment have a policy of centralisa­ in order to inform the young people as to tion and do not favour the development of the how to improve primary production and fulfil whole of the State. Subsidies have been our needs. granted to local authorities covering the I appeal to country members opposite par­ ·whole of Queensland. ticularly to take heed of the warning given My next point is of such importance that by our long-range weather prophet, Mr. it concerns everyone. I refer to education. Inigo J ones. We know that in the past the All hon. members must admit that the schools primary producers diil not make ~mfficient and facilities, for both primary and secoHdary provision during good seasons for the bad education, are vastly improved over what seasons that usually follow. I remember they were in our younge.r days. That progress during my early days in the western country stands as a monument to the policy of the the graziers used to make good hay from Labour Government who, however, do not seek Mitchell grass which was a good stand-by to take great credit for it because they realise in the dry periods, but that practice ceased. that it is their duty to provide education for Now they frequently overstock, the holdings our people. Despite the 1vild claims of hon. are soon eaten out, and there is no provision members opposite, we can say without fear for a dry period. of contradiction that not one child in need They do not make use of the machinery of education has been refused that benefit. at their disposal and conserve fodder. Fodder In the country areas, transport to school is conservation would be also a protection provided. Again, when one looks at these against the great fire hazard and in view of children going to school and notices their the long-range forecast that 1954 will be a fine health and the excellent standard of lean year following two good seasons I hope clothing they wear. one cannot help realising that the primary producers will pull their that the standard of living in Queensland has weight, conserve fodder, and improve their improved a great deal since Labour took office. position so that when the lean time comes they will not be looking to the Government I do not like referring to the tragic period and the consumer to help them out. between 1929 and 1932, but I do remember that

of work should be provided now by private the hon. member for Sherwood and to make enterprise to offset the falling-off in employ­ an analysis of the figures that have been ment that took place in the building industry placed before us and of the financial aspects while controls were in operation. of the Budget and their effect on economic When building controls operated only a trends. certain class of work could be carried out The hon. member for Sherwood has already because there was always the cry, "We dealt fairly fully with the wasteful expendi­ cannot do this and we cannot do that, on ture that has taken place in this State. He account of controls.'' Many firms re.ceived pointed out the very substantial losses that depreciation concessions in their income tax have been incurred on certain undertakings, assessments but since controls have been and discussed in detail the necessity for a lifted some have made the excuse that the closer control of certain items of uneconomic restriction of credit has stopped them from expenditure. I do not propose to cover any going on with the necessary work. With the of those matters, but I propose to deal as lifting of building con trois and credit restric­ fully as I am able to in the time available tions money should now be spent and this will with the other financial aspects of the Budget. absorb unemployed tradesmen and labourers. In doing so I shall probably have to refer There should be a revival in the building to the Treasurer on a number of occasions, tr.ade .. I am also looking forward to the and I should like to take this opportunity at L1cens;ng 9ommission 's instituting a vigorous the outset of saying that when I refer to the campaign m regard to hotels, particularly in Treasurer it will not in any way be in a the. tourist areas of the State. - I know what personal sense, but rather as an institution. value this trade has been to Queensland and Jl'Ir. Walsh: I should not accuse you of now hotel proprietors should have the fi~ance being personal. to go ahead and complete buildings that were ll'Ir. lUUNRO: I am sure the Treasurer not compie.ted, and bring other buildings up would not. However, it is necessary in any to standard. At the same time I hope that serious consideration of these problems, to a check will be made on the charges levied recognise that, first of all, the Treasurer is by hotels and other people in tourist areas merely an agent for the Government in carry­ because. it has been my experience that whe~ ing out the financial policy of the Govern­ one speaks of the tourist trade people imagine ment, that in the second place, the respon­ all sorts of rich tourists coming to Queensland. sibility for administration rests with the My experience has shown me that a big per­ Treasurer, and that in the third place he is centage of the tourists coming to this State largely dependent upon his officers, although are working people who because of better I think the Treasurer is very well served in standards of living and other amenities of that regard. the present time, have be.en able to go on tours . and visit States outside their own. lir. Walsh: The officers do not lay Queensland has been particularly fortunate in down the policy. attracting tourists from the other States but l\Ir. l\IUNRO: Quite so. I make those those tourists are just ordinary people ' and remarks merely to indicate that I shall be so I say that provision should be 'made referring to the Treasun~r as an institution. whereby they may get accommodation at a In referring to the Treasurer as an institu­ price in keeping with their ability to pay. tion, I am .reminded of a little story of the The sight-seeing tourists also have to be con­ early days in Brisbane, when it was a common side.red, and judging by charge; asked of such practice to refer to the conductors of the old people one would imagine that they were running-board· trams as requiring the quali­ Ame~ican millionaires instead of ordinary fications of an acrobat and an accountant. workmg people who are on recreation leave Similarly, I should say that the Treasurer of or wish to extend their knowledze by a visit a Labour Government such as this requires to a neighbouring State. · probably four qualifications. He requires to I trust that this matter will be attend:e.d to. be an acrobat, an accountant, a financier, I feel confident that hotel proprietors and and an economist. If I may deal first and very others who have been prevented from building lightly with the qualifications of an acrobat, should now start a rebuilding programme and I am reminded of them by the difficulties that there will be no unemployment of trades­ confronting the Treasurer in his attempts to men and other personnel. That alone would deal with the conflicting requirements of his decentrf!lise some of our worke.rs because they Government on such matters as the return would have to go to different parts of the to the States of the Commonwealth's taxing State to get employment. 'l'his aspect of the powers on the one hand, and on the other present economic position should be pursued . hand, this constant request to the Common­ ~o _the utmost b~cause record figures are wealth GoYernment for more money. Then mdicated for this year's tourist trade. we have the conflicting suggestions that on Despite adverse criticism, I think the works the one hand· interest rates should be lower propose.d by the Government will be put into and, on the other hand. that there should be effect, that a good job will be done, and the more money for loans. There is also the con­ people will show their appreciation of the flicting policy of higher wages and lower Government's efforts in the 1953 elections. prices. Those two things are entirely incom­ patible', because wages represent the major J.Ur. lUUNRO (Toowong) (2.45 p.m.) : In factor in costs and prices ultimately must making my contribution to this debate on the depend on costs. There is also on occasions Financid Statement, I propose to continue the necessity for a little bit of tight-rope­ along very similar lines to those followed by walking between the requirements of the Supply. [9 OCTOBER.] Supply. 635

€conomic outlook ou the one hand and the time spread over a quarter of a century has requirements of electioneering expediency on been devoted to exactly this subject, that I the other hand. have been associated with it to a very great Even at times I feel that I myself perhaps extent with the hon. member for Ooorparoo, have been responsible for adding somewhat and I should say that as a result of our to these difficulties by putting forward awk­ efforts, in conjunction with those of other ward questions that may not be entirely practising accountants throughout Australia, convenient for the Treasurer to answer we have achieved notable progress in that and that he may feel desirable from the respect. I am now asking that Parliament, viewpoint of expediency to pass over rather the Treasurer, and the officers of the depart­ lightly. I will come back to these examples ment obtain some benefit from that progress later on. I mention it more or less by way t!Jat has been achieved in the presentation of sympathy in a personal sense because I do of the final accounts of public companies. l'ealise the difficulties of the Treasurer in lU:r. Walsh: I am always ready to listen meeting this first qualijication as a Treasurer, to constructive suggestions. that of an acrobat. JUr. WIUNIW: I am dealing with the Passing on, perhaps in a more serious vein, acwal progress that has been made and I to the second qualification, that of an account­ should like to have time to Tead some of the ant, I am bringing forward this part of my s~ctions with reference to accounts of public 1emarks not because I want to be in any way L ,mpanies. critical of the governmental method of accounting but because, if we are to have an Section 134 ( 1) of The Companies Acts informed consideration, an informed dis­ states- cussion on the Budget, we must have all the '' Every balance·sheet of a company shall relevant facts before us and we must have contain a summary of the authorised share all the relevant facts before us in a readily capital and of the issued share capital of accessible form. I am going to show the the company, its liabilities and its assets, Committee that we have not got all the together vYith such paTticulaTs as are neces­ relevant facts placed before us in a readily sal:Y to disclose the geneTal nature of the accessible form and that I myself have had liabilities and the assets of the company to a certain extent to cany out the duties and to distinguish between the amounts of an investigating accountant to obtain the respectively of the fixed assets and of the facts that I wish to discuss. In referring to floating assets, and shall state how the this aspect of the matter, I want to say in values of the fixed and floating assets have jmtie<' to the Treasurer and also in justice been arrived at.'' to the departmental officers that I have no That is a very good provision of the law. criticism at all of the way in which these I mention it only in passing because in Financial Statements are placed before us accordance with these practices, which have within the limitation of the governmental been established in the main by chartered system. I think that the tables are very well accountants, public companies throughout prepared, well set out, and so far as I can Australia go veTy much further than that. gather entirely accurate. 'l'hey do go to considerable pains to place Mr. Walsh: We have a better system the facts before the shareholders. I do not in this State than is to be found in any other propose at this stage to make any compaTison ''~ate of Australia. between the governmental system of present­ ing accounts merely on a receipts-and-pay­ Jt[r. ltiUNRO: That may be so and I am ments basis, as compared with the profit-and­ not expressing any opinion on that. I make loss basis adopted by the companies. Probably ''e point that the system we have here is quite a lot eau be saiu either way and I will J'Ot adequate. not make any comments on it, but I do stress The Treasurer, in response to a question of the inadequacy of the accounts of the Gov­ mine on 2 October, 1952, was good enough to eTnment in another respect. They do not give a little bit of a lead because I asked give us anything that is in any way con:­ him in paragraph 4 of my question- parable with the balance sheet of a public " Will he give consideration to the pub­ company. lishing at an early date of a revised state­ To indicate my point that public companies ment of the balances of the public account even go ve•T much further than meeting the as at 30 June, 1952, classifying the various requirements of the law I will gi\'e to the balances according to their general nature, Committee very brief extracts from a clocu~ incorporating descriptive wordings where ment I have in my hand. It is the balance necessary and disclosing the particulars sheet and annual report of Jantzcn (Aust.) asked for in the question.'' Ltd. 1 t is a company I am not associated 'l'he hon. gentleman in a rather lengthy \dth; it would be improper for me to discuss answer included the following- the balance sheet of a company I am '' The hon. member might devote some associated with. This document is a prize­ of his interest to seeing that the accounts winning exhibit as a balance sheet. It is of public companies give all necessaTy not typical; it is outstanding. We have set details." out under the heading of ''Shareholders' JUr. Walsh: Did you read yesterday's Funds'' details of the capital, details of the issue on the stock exchange 1 reserves, and details of the profit and loss account. '!'hen the statPment goes on to ltlr. MUNRO: I did. I can assure the show what is repTesented by the various Treasurer that to a considemble degree my items of fixed assets, what is represented 636 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. by patents, trademarks, &c., and finally current of Trust and Special Fnnds represent assets, less current liabilities. The point I losses or deficiencies in those Accounts. specially want to draw attention to is the These balances are shown hereunder:- extent to which public companies have gone £ •· a. in making particulars available to share­ Aboriginal Welfare Fund 13,182 2 (} holders. This balance sheet is accompanied Banana Industry Fund 10,548 9 0 by an explanatory balance sheet, which shows Chillagoe State Smelters Fund in simple language that every person can (Reconstruction Account) .. 2,841 17 6 Dairy Cattle Improvement Fund 4,939 16 s understand the assets and liabilities of the 15S,288 8 10 company-what it owned and what it owed. Main Roads Fund State Coal Mines Fund .. 152,032 15 9 Under the heading of ''Accounts Receivable'' State Coke Works Fund 28,116 4 10 it shows-total owed by customers for mer­ State Land and Water Resources chandise less estimated amounts which we Investigation and Develop­ may not be able to collect, together with ment Fund 248 6 6 amounts due by salesmen, agents, and sundry Stock Diseases Fund 105,980 19 9 debtors.'' Of the Inventories it shows us value of raw materials, garments in work and Total .. .. £476,179 0 10" finished products in hand or in transit at the close of the year. In stating the depreciated In order that those figures can be reconciled cost of land, plant and equipment it states with the tables in the Financial Statement, ''This is the amount we paid for the land, I prepared this reconciliation, which I pro­ buildings, machinery and equipment less an pose to read so that it can be incorporated estimated allowance for loss in value because in '' Hansard. '' This will give us mneh more of it gradually wearing out and becoming infonhation than we can find in the tables obsolete.'' I mention these descriptions attached to the Treasurer's Budget Speech. as something to be achieved in accountancy It reads as follows- and just to show in clear relief the entire (Summary of Balances of The Trust and Special Funds as inadequacy of our governmental s_ystem. at 30th June, 1952.) £ s. d. Let us return to a consideration of the Credit Balances of various Trust and Financial Statement submitted by the Special Funds (as detailed in the Treasurer. In reference to it, I had occasion Table A) ...... 36,749,111 7 2 Less Debit Balances of to ask this question- the Funds- £ s. d. "Which of the debit balances shown in (a) Nine Accounts as the Table A under the heading of Trust listed above 476,179 0 10 (b) OtMr items either and Special Funds represents (a) Assets wholly or partly and (b) Losses or deficiencies~" represented by Fund Assets. The reply did not give me the information Fish Supply but it did make some comment that was Fund 26,724 12 4 interesting. I will read that reply- Irvinebank State Treat­ " It should be unnecessary to state that ment Works all investments and cash balances are assets. Fund 23,076 13 4 Certain operating accounts such as State State Stores Coal Mines Fund and State Coke Works Board Special Standing Fund and the Stock Diseases Fund show Fund 886,759 12 6 debit balances, but any portion of such 1. 412,739 19 0 accounts deemed unrecoverable is adiustecl from Consolidated Revenue from to Net amount of Trust ti~1e and Special Fund time. The position of the Special :E'unds Balances = £35,336,371 8 2 is regarded as being quite satisfactory at the present time.'' This net amount is represented by­ Mr. Walsh jnterjected. £ 8. d. Investments in Fixed Deposit and Mr. MUNRO: Instead of reading the Securities Accounts (as shown in Auditor-General's report very carefull;r, our footnote to Table D1 on page 17) 24,027,901 511 Sickness Medical or Funeral Benefit difficulty is that it seems to be the practice Fund Securities Account (as shown that the Auditor-General's report is not in Table A but not shown in the available at the time members are required footnote to Table D1) 239,525 0 0 to discuss the Budget. Sub-Total ...... 24,267,426 5 11 Cash Balances in Commonwealth Bank Mr. 'Valsh: In your business, you and Commonwealth Savings Bank should know the reason why. Accounts ( 4 items in Table A but shownasoneiteminTableD1) .. 11,068,945 2 3 Mr. lliUNRO: I know the reason why; .. £35,336,371 8 2 for that reason it is not available, therefore Total as above .. I had to do a certain amount of investigating. As a result of this, I came to the conclusion I submit that statement to indicate the type that, based on all the fnformation I could of information that could be submitted to get _from the Auditor-General's reports of this Parliament. It is extremely difficult for previOus years, the answer to my question any hon. member on this side., and for that would have included something to this matter any hon. member or other person other effect- than a practising accountant, to dig behind " Nine debit balances shown in the Table the statements officially submitted and pre­ A as at 30th June, 1952, under the heading pare an analysis of that kind. I have done Supply. [9 OCTOBER.] Supply. 637 this to indicate what can be done and There we. have the link-up that is lacking to show that it is possible to put the figures in our proceedings here. When a board of before Parliament in such a way that the directors of a company submits its final information will be more readily understood. accounts to the shareholders, it is usually with the auditors' report attached and, Mr. 1'Valsh: Are you sure you have the right amounts~ because. of this statutory provision, that report is read to the meeting before a motion JUr. JUUNRO: My figures are right on the is submitted for the adoption of the final basis of the information available to us but accounts. Here we seem content with the I should be very much fortified in this matter practice of submitting the Auditor-General's if I had the Report of the Auditor-General. report after almost every hon. member has Without his report we have to delve into these spoken on the. Budget. My experience has things or discuss the Financial Statement in been that it is usually submitted in the last the dark. few days of the Budget debate. JUr. Walsh: It might be that we should Mr. Walsh: You do realise that an present the Budget later in the year1 audit has to be conducted over the whole of the State~ JUr. lUUNRO: No. I will make a better suggestion later. In reference to that I shall ilir. JUUNRO : I do. be glad to hear the Treasurer in reply and I :iUr. Walsh: That is entirely different say in passing that there are three of these from auditing a company's books. debit balances that I have mentioned earlier that really call for some little explanation. I lir. lUUNRO: I realise that, and I did do not say there is anything particularly promise the Treasurer earlier that I would wrong about them. I realise the necessity make a practical suggestion. I point out here for these accounts. I mention them to draw that I am not entirely bound up by the Stand­ some attention to the difficulties. ing Orders of this House. If I can see some­ thing that can be improved I am going to The first one in the Main Roads Fund point out how it can be improved. If that which, most surprisingly, at 30 June 1951' means an alteration of the Standing Orders, had a credit balance of £649 560 and at 30 then let us alter those Standing Orders. If' June, 1952, a debit balance of £158,288. the Treasurer wants his Financial Statement lir. Walsh: That is very easily explained. considered early, and if the Auditor-General We obviously spent more money than was or somebody else finds it is not practicable· appropriated by Parliament. to submit the Auditor-General's report m, that stage, the proper thing to do would be to ilir. liUNR 0: It may be easily explained give us an opportunity later of having a but this does not come. into the statement of general debate on the Auditor-General's Consolidated Revenue and whether or not it report. can b~ easily explained, it is proper this 1\'Ir. Walsh: You will have that on the· Committee should have the ·explanation. Estimates. ilir. Walsh: It is in the :figures sub­ ilir. liUNRO: No. mitted. If you read the Budget statement ilir. Walsh: Of course you will. you will find they spent about £1,000,000 more than was appropriated. lUr. iliUNRO: No. When we have the· Estimates we have only one department sub­ Mr. ll'IUNRO: I do not doubt that it is mitted to us at a time and we are. limited to reconcilable but if these figures were sub­ a discussion of the affairs of that department mitted we should have a much better oppor­ only. tun~ty ?f debating the _important question of pohcy mvolved. That IS all I am asking for. l'\Ir. Walsh: And on the resolutions you I want those figures. have a full hour. There are two other items to which I would ilfr. MUNRO: But at any time we must ask the Treasurer to devote himself and make. deal with only one department and have no· some explanation-the State Coal Mines Fund opportunity for a full-scale debate covering· and the Stock Diseases Fund. I have merely the. whole of the matters dealt with in the· chosen these three accounts because the debit Auditor-General's report. We should not balances are very substantial amounts. stand still in legislative matters. If some­ thing is inadequate, why IIOt make an effort The Tre.asurer has reminded me of the to remedy it~ I put forward these sugges­ ques~ion of the date of the tabling of the tions only because I feel that they are neces­ Auditor-General's report. Let me refer him sary and desirable in view of my experience· again to public-company practice because we as an accountant connected with public can learn a lot from that. Let us look first companies. When I began as an accountant at the provisions of the Companies Act. over 30 years ago, our public-company Section 139 ( 1) deals with the auditors' accounting methods were very much unformed. report and says- 'vV e have built up an accounting procedure, '' The auditors' report shall be attached and it is not too much to expect similar to the. balance sheet, and the report shall progress to be made in governmental matters. be r.ead before the company in general I think I have dealt sufficiently with that meetmg and shall be open to inspection by asp·ect. I must not forget that I promised any member.'' to deal with two other qualifications of a <638 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Treasurer. I have only 60 minutes to cover one to which we should apply ourselves. I the whole thing, and actually there is a fifth think that Governments in Australia-ancl I qualification, which I do not propose to am not distinguishing between them at the mention in detail but which will become quite moment-have failed in their duties to the evident by the time I have completed my people of Australia in that they have not speech. found a solution to the problem. The reason is that Governments, and State I mention again that I believe. the Governments in particular, have not been able mechanical side of the financial duties of the to hav!l_ any proper conception of the real Treasurer has been carried out quite well. I nature of the partnership in government. The have read the Financial Statement and the attitude of this Government in particular for attached tables very carefully and I feel that years and years has been that if money is the mechanical or routine side has been well required to be spent we are entitled to spend cared for. it, ancl it is our policy to spend it, if only On the question of finance, we have to the Commonwealth Government will give us consider the basic policy and I cannot help the money. entirely agreeing with the criticism that this Budget is to a very considcra ble extent an lllr. Walsh: That is not so. election Budget. The hon. member who just lUr. MUNRO: That is putting in just a resumed his seat referred to it and said it was few words the substance of what has been a very good thing that the Government had the expressed view of the Government. been able to get together this spending power and have it available particularly at this I shall endpavour to be constructive and to time. If by the words "particularly at this give a general outline of what I believe is time'' he meant a stage of grave emergency the solution. We must accept two basic prin­ that would occur within this financial year, ciples. The first is that we must discontinue the pernicious practice of one Government's I should be inclined to join with him in his being to a substantial extent responsible for commendation, but my view is rather differ­ the collection of the revenues expended by ent. I should regard this particular time as another Government, and the second is that being this year or the year in which an we must not return to a state of affairs simi­ election will be held, and to the extent that lar to that which existed prior to 1942, when that consideration might have influenced the we had duplication and overlapping in impor­ policy of the Government in putting in these tant fields of taxation, including income tax. unusual kinds of expenditure, I should say that the policy is wrong. I want to say a word or two on the prob­ lem of income tax as it was prior to 1942, Mr. 1Valsh: What are the unusual and as it will be in a very much worse form items~ if we go back to the 1942 system. The deter­ i1Ir. ItiUNRO: I shall deal with them· mination of the income-tax liabilities of inter­ I do not mind answering any questions if I state traders ancl persons residing in one am able to do so. I wish to refer Shte and deriving income from another to one or two things dealt with in the Tables would necessarily require some degree of relating to the Treasurer's Financial State­ agreement and co-operation between the ment but before I come to them there is States. The question therefore arises, ''Is perhaps one more important matter that I it not better for this to be determined on want to deal with, and that is the financial the basis of the total revenue requirements relationships between the Commonwealth and instead' of being a matter of legal disputa­ t~e Sta~es. This will lead up to the par­ tion in thousands of separate cases?" What ticular Items. In the Treasurer's Financial I am saying in effect is that if we do return ·statement these words appear- to the position where the States have their own income-taxes it should not be clone at '' State Governments find themselves the expense of individual taxpayers, but a faced with another upset in their financial determination should be made as to what part relationships 1vith the Commonwealth. of the total States Income Tax should be ''At the Premiers' Conference held in alloeated to one State and what part to Julv last the Prime Minister stated that another. the. Commonwealth Government was willing Accordingly, my suggestions are- to discuss with the States the return of their power to tax incomes. Most Premiers 1. There should be agreement as to approved of the principle that the States separate fields of Commonwealth and' State should levy their own taxation.'' taxation covering all taxes other than income tnx. ·The Treasurer then went on to state the 2. As regards income tax, there should attitude of the Premier of Queensland, which be a uniform Commonwealth and State statement I do not criticise in any way and Income Tax Assessment Act operative lw further said- ' throughout Australia with one scale of ''The present position is a further rates to provide Commonwealth revenue instance of the instability of the Common­ and an additional scale of rates to provide wealth-States financial relationships and revenue for the States as a whole. the periodic crises that have arisen since Federation.'' Mr. Walslt: The same scale in every State f -I think that that is a very serious state of :affairs. It is a factual statement no doubt JUr. lUUNRO: With one scale of rates but it is a very serious state of ~ffairs and to provide Commonwealth revenue and an Supply. [9 OCTOBER.] Supply. 639> additional scale of rates to provide revenue lUr. :iliUNRO: Yes. I am not making a for the States as a whole. My third sugges­ political speech. I should say that on this tion is-- matter the States of Australia as a whole 3. The States' portion of the income­ have really failed to rise to the occasion and tax revenue should be apportioned among do what they should do to help the Common­ the States according to a general formula >Yealth Government to get Australia out of determined by experts on a fair and equit· its difficulties. able basis. :illr. Walsh: The three anti-Labour lUr. Walsh: What basis would you take? State Governments in Australia have done· that to the Federal Gc,vernment ~ :ilir. MUNRO: I have given the answer thc1·e. My fourth suggestion is- :ilir. lUUNRO: If the Treasurer is talk­ ing to me on the basis of whether they were 4. The cases of the less developed Lahour Governments or anti-Labour Govern­ States, that is, Western Australia, South mmts let me tell him that he is talking to Australia, Tasmania and Queensland, the w'rong man. I am not talking politics. should be considered and appropriately I am trying to show the Treasurer how he can dealt with so far as necessary by special do his part in helping Australia in these Commonwealth grants (of limited amount) problems. When he speaks of Labour Gov­ on a basis somewhat similar to that at pre­ ernments or anti-Labour Governments he does, sent operative in relation to the special not influence me in the least, and his remarks Commonwealth grants to Western Aus­ are completely irrelevant. What .I am t.rying· tralia, South Australia and Tasmania. to do is to help the Treasurer m findmg a Mr. Walsh: Why South Australia, with solution of these problems. all its heavy industries W , I promised the Treasurer that I would point out some particulars relating to unusu.al :ilir. :iliUNRO: I am afraid I have not items in accounts. I have not forgotten It, the time to amplify that at the moment, but and I now turn to page 14 of the Budget, on in general principles I believe those sugges­ >Yhich he says- tions provide a solution of the problem. All that is needed in addition to that general " It is proposed to expend from the basis is that the representatives of the States Post--War Fund on this programme· and of the Comn'ionwealth should meet £4,000,000 of a credit of £4,301,751 at together with some better feeling and a desire 30 June, 1952. to find out just what is best for Australia as ''In addition, the trust accounts of oper­ a whole, and with less consideration of poli­ ating authorities, such as Main Roads, tical expediency. Burdekin River Authority, Tully Falls Hydro-Electric Scheme, and Housing .Com­ My fourth point was that we should con­ mission are being drawn on to a maximum sider the Treasurer as an economist. extent. :ilir. Walsh: Do not put me in that '' The necessary funds will be obtained sphere. from the following sources and under the heading of Trust Funds- Mr. :iliUNRO: It is very necessary. I am only pointing out that every action of Trust Funds- government, whether good or bad, has an £ effect on the community as a whole. There­ ''Post-War Reconstruction fore the Treasurer is not only responsible for and Development Fund 4,000,000 balancing his Budget but is also responsible Other Trust and Special for seeing that his actions and the actions of Funds 5,273, 734" his Government are such that they will be I take the latter item first in order to clear in the best interests of the people of the State the matter up. In reply to a question the and Australia. You will never get that until Treasurer supplied me with particulars of you get a full realisation of this concept of those sources, and to save him from remind­ partnnship between the Commonwealth and ing me of it I will mention that there was the States, when we see the Commonwealth this footnote to the answer- and the States pulling together. I can say '' The moneys will be provided from from recent history, of the last two years, balances on hand at 30 June, 1952, and that the States as a whole have not been pre­ anticipated receipts during the current ye~~, pared to measure up to their responsibilities. exclusive of advances from Loan Fund. · The representatives of the State must be aware of the profound economic diffi­ lUr. Walsl1: What is wrong with that? culties of the present time, yet they allowed Mr. :iliUNRO: Nothing wrong with it. the Commonwealth Government to take all the As a matter of fact, it helps the Treasurer unpopularity of the measures that have been out because if he had not said that it would. necessary to provide, particula·rly, for this have been necessary for me to point out to disease of infiation with which we were in­ him that he was proposing to spend approxi­ flicted. The States have not offered a helping mately £2,500,000 from a special fund, hand, but merely stood by and tried to make the Main Roads ]i'und, which had a debit political capital out of the efforts of the balance. There was nothing in the fund. Commonwealth Government to deal with the That applies, remarkably enough, to one or economic position. t1vo other funds but not to the same extent .. lUr. Walsh: You are blaming all the T will give one other example, the Common­ State Governments for thaU wealth Aid, Local Authority Roads Ji'und .. 6!0 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The Treasurer proposes to expend £837 603 that we shall be able to provide full employ­ from this fund, which at the present time ment and obtain full production at economi~ has a credit balance of only £267,981. prices.

Jllr. Walsh: We are entitled to this ~Ir. Walsh: We have about 10 per cent. amount. of unemployment in this State.

lllr. lUUNRO: The hon. gentleman knows 1Ur. ~IUNRO: The point I make is that that he will receive that. I mentioned that Australia has not yet solved the problem to be perfectly fair, and in order to say that of inflation, and we must solve it. We shall the full amount of £9,000,000 will not come not solve it by all the controls we are having out of the reserves at all. here, or by retarding production, and we shall not solve it by spending our reserves. lllr. Walsh: You have been wondering where we were going to get it. JUr. Walsh: /Your argument is contrary to that advanced by Menzies and: Fadden. Mr. lliUNRO: I was. In order to get this information from this side of the Jllr. ~IUNRO: I am not worried about Chamber we have to delve for it. Menzies or Fad den; they are doing their job pretty well; all I am concerned about is ~Ir. Walsh: Why not? I always had to doing our job well. I maintain that the spend­ do my own delving. ing of £4,000,000 from that fund in gne year savours of looking after this year and not ~Ir. MUNRO: I think in Parliament the worrying about what comes after. information should be made a little more readily available. Jlir. Walsh: We still shall not be broke. Let us have a look now at this Post-war llir. ~IUNRO: I am getting very close Reconstruction and Development Fund which to the end of my time. I have endeav­ is the main item. The position there i~ rather oured to cover the qualifications of the different. I haYe had to do a little research Treasurer under those various aspects. work in order to get this information. I Summing up briefly, might I say: that iind that it was established in the year ended as an acrobat perhaps we could do with 30th June, 1943, and that it was built up for n little less of that capacity; as an accoun­ some years after that, and that it came up to tant, it would be an ad·vantage to have the its peak on 30 June, 1945, when it stood at facts more clearly presented to enable us to £9,240,580. That fund has been carried on judge the trends from year to year; as a from 30 June, 1945, to 30 June, 1952, with financier, let us establish the concept of part­ disbursements from it, not in any way of an nership and the idea of long-term, as opposed unusual size, to reduce it at 30 June, 1952, to to short-term, planning; as an economist, here again the concept of partnership and £4.'3.0~,750. I do not in any way propose to •tlntlc1se the Treasurer for building up that guidance by economic considerations rather than political expediency; if there is a fifth fund, nor have I ever done so in this Chamber qualification, and I indicated earlier that there or anywhere else. I do say, however, I am is another qualification we look for in a profoundly concerned with the fact that in this particular year-in this one year-the Treasurer and in a Government, that is a mind and a heart that can rise above the Government propose to use up £4,000 000 rubble and the discord of party politics, not out of this fund, which contains a total of only in Queensland but throughout Australia. only £4,301,750. If this were just a passing phase, and we had no reason· to give any Heturning to the Budget, let me say in -consideration to what happens after 30 June, conclusion that it has its good points as well 1953, I would not say one word of criticism. as its bad ones. It could be converted to a Are those the facts I really good Budget if it had in it just a little less of electioneering and political expediency JUr. Walsh: We have an obligation to and a little more statesmanship and vision see that the people of this State are kept for the future. in employment. ~Ir. EYRNE (Mourilyan) (3.37 p.m.): Mr. JUUNRO: Most certainly the Govern­ First of all I wish to congratulate the Inent have. 'l'Teasurer on his Financial Statement, which v.as presented in a clear and concise form. ~Ir. Walsh: If we cannot rely on the •Commonwpalth we have to use our own I propose to devote the first part of my reserves. speech to the sugar industry. Although this subject has been me11tioned a good deal in ~~r. ~IUNRO: Certainly they have that recent times, I feel that its history has not ·obhgatwn. In regard to that obligation I bEen sufficiently stated. I propose to deal am in complete agreement, but I am com­ with certain aspects of the industry that I pletely of the contrary opinion as to the way think will be interesting to this Committee. the Government are going about meetinO' There appeared in "The Brisbane Tele· that position. The obligation of the Goven~ graph'' of 3 October a statement to the effect ment is not to keep the people in employment that the Federal Government would not con­ only for this particular year, in the financial sider the recommendation for an increase in yea.r e:r;ding 30 June, 1953. They have an the price of sugar until after the Flinders ·obhgatwn to put the economic po§ition of this by-election on 18 October. It was obvious State in such a condition that we shall get that the Federal Government was subordinat­ back to a state of economic equilibrium so ing the sugar industry to political expediency. Supply. [9 OCTOBER.] Supply. 641

Only this morning a further statement report, and the whole world knowing the cane­ appeared in "The Courier-Mail" indicating growers are justified in asking for that that the report had been received and making increase, they still do not make it available the old statement that we have read from to them. Virtually half the cane crop in time to time-that the Government were not Queensland for this season is crushed now and yet ready to declare an increased price for it can be seen that as time goes on probably sugar but that we could expect it in the 60 per cent. or a little more might be crushed course of a few days. ''In the course of a before a decision is made and a great amount few days" seems to go close to 18 October, of the sugar obtained from that cane will not the date on which the Flinders by-election attract the increased price. I am of opinion will take place. that the Federal Government have not It was right for me to ask a question of the increased the price purely and simply for Premier this week and it appears to me that political motives. Surely this great industry it is at least dishonourable o~ the part of is entitled to better treatment than that from the Federal Government to engage in pro­ the Federal Government. crastination to such an extent as they are Mr. Evans interjected. doing in connection with this great industry. According to the hon. member for Mirani, lUr. BYRNE: I hear the hon. member the cane-growers of Que.ensland are losing for Mirani interjecting. It is a pleasure for £90,000 for every week's dela:t and if they me to quote what he said in this Chamber have to wait for another fortnight before a on 9 September. On page 265 of declaration is made, imagine the. loss that '' Hansard,'' he is reported as having said- will be suffered by the cane-growers! ' ' When the report is handed to the In his reply to my question the Premier Federal Government I will attack them if said- they do not give a decision straight away, " I am at a loss to understand the great but I am not going to attack them before delay that has taken place on the part of that report is in.'' the Government of Australia in reaching a The hon. member for Mirani is quite entitled decision as to what price in..crease should to make that statement, and I think he should be granted to the. sugar industry of this keep to his promise and attack the Federal State.'' Government, because that report has been in The Premier continued- their hands for some time now. He should '' . . the report of the committee has make that attack, in view of his own state­ been in the hands of Senator 0 'Sullivan ment that the cane-growers of Queensland and the Commonwealth Government for are losing £90,000 a week and because he some weeks now.'' has been in the industry for many years and represents the cane-growers in the The Premier was at a loss to understand why Farleigh district. He has not yet hit the a decision had not been made. He then pro­ headlines of either ''The Telegraph'' or ceeded to say- ''The Courier-Mail'' with any report featur­ '' I will certainly take suitable action ing his hostility to the Federal Government with a view to expediting a decision, and because of their delay, but I do hope that I repeat that it would be a very serious we shall soon see those headlines and the matter for any government to subordinate attack that he has promised to make, although the interests of a great industry like this I am inclined to the belief that he will never to political expediency.'' attack his political friends in the Federal These statements of the Premier should be arena, or, if he does, it will fizzle out as a in the hands of ·e.very cane-grower in Queens­ squib. land in order that he might realise the extent I come now to the statement made in this to which the Federal Government are pro­ House by the hon. member for Mulgrave, who crastinating in the matter of an increase in is reported on page 239 of '' Hansard'' as the price of sugar. It would appear that the having said- Premier's reply seemed to give them an urge to do something and they went to this '' In 1932 the Forgan Smith Government extent at least, that in this morning's issue came into power and that gentleman said of "The Courier-Mail" we read that that in his election campaign, 'If I am returned Government have given an indication that the to power I will not only maintain the price price is about to be. declared. That does not for sugar but I will see that you get cost help us in any way because all the time the of production.' The first thing his Govern­ delay is continuing the cane-growers are suf­ ment did was to reduce the price by -l;d. fering. a lb." Application was made to the. Premier in the That statement is not only inc

political expediency. We have the same member for Mirani will remember Mr. political expediency today as we had in 1932. Johnson who was chairman of the Queens­ There is now, as there was then, anti-Labour land C~ne Growers' Council, and Senator hostility to the Queensland sugar industry, Crawford who was chairman of the Aus­ the only difference being that in 1932 there tralian Sugar Producers' Association. The was extreme urgency as well as secrecy con­ hon. member for Mirani is at present an nected with the reduction of one halfpenny executive member of that body. Those two a pound in the price of sugar, whereas today gentlemen toured Queensland from Mossman there is no urgency on the part of an anti­ to Bundaberg and exhorted the cane-growers Labour Government about increasing the to stand :firm and oppose the Federal G_overn­ price. ment in their desire to reduce the pnce of In 1932 an anti-Labour Government led by sugar by !;;d. a pound. Mr. Lyons submitted to the clamourings of Senator McLachlan in his opening address his own party, which at that time took over at the conference dealt extensively with what the government of the Commonwealth from he was pleased to call the very f~vourable Labour under Mr. Scullin. Be it remembered position that the s_ugar industr.y was m at t~at that at that time, there existed a Sugar time compared with other pnmary-producmg Agreement under which the retail price of industries in Australia, and referred to the Slwar was 4~d. a lb., and that the Federal equality of sacrifice that was. expected of .all "1 State Governments were signatories to manufacturing and pr1mary-producmg 'lcat agreement. I should perhaps mention interests. He said that was one of the reasons that the State Premier at that time was Mr. why the price of sugar should be reduced Moore, the political friend of the Opposition. voluntarily. The Lyons anti-Labour Government, after a Loan Council meeting, suggested a conference I refer now to the statement, again made with the sugar industry to get it voluntarily by the hon. member for Mulgrave, that this to reduce the price of sugar by ~d. a Th. Govf!rnment were responsible for the redu.c­ The conference was to be with sugar interests tion of <.d. a pound in the price o~ sugar 1.n •H1 not with State Governments, the State 1932. Mr. Forgan Smith, the Premier of this Governments being, with the Commonwealth State at that time, defended the agreement Govemment, the signatories to the agreement. to the utmost of his ability and pointed out As the Treasurer rightly reminds me, the that it had been arrived at only after the agreement was entered into after an exhaus­ industry had been extensively exan;ined by a tive inquiry into every aspect of the industry. committee appointed by the Scullm Govern­ Lt became apparent that the Lyons Govern­ ment. Mr. Forgan Smith, who I am very ment could not withstand the panderings to pleased to say is still active in the interes~s them by those politically opposed to the sugar of the sugar industry, said in very plam industry, and their hostile arguments were lan()'uage that his Government would not be a 'ueh and their viciousness was such that party to any departure from the agreement Mr. Lyons had to :find some, way or means of eatered into between the Scullin Goveniment breaking the agreement. The hon. member and the Moore Government. The conferences for Mirani will remember what actually took proceeded but without Mr. Forgan Smith, -;;rho place, because he has been associated with was utterly disgusted with the whole thm~ the industry for a long time. I have attended and' with the bad faith of the Federal anti· cane-growers' conferences with him. He will Labour Government. However, Senator remember Senator Colebatch, of Western Aus­ McLachlan intimated that unless there was tralia, who was a prominent free-trader, and an immediate price reduction-and this is he will remember that a Mr. Anderson important-there would be Federal legislative questioned the validity of the agreement action. He referred to the danger that would entered into in all sanctity between the beset the sugar industry if the Tariff Act was Federal Government under Mr. Scullin and the amended and the embargo on black-gro.wn State Government under Mr. Moore, and sugar was lifted. Was it not an awful thmg challenged it before the High Court. In for any Government, be it State or Federal, addition to these opponents of the sugar to indicate that unless the sugar industry was industry, there were the fruit-processing prepared to agree to a reduction in price, people, the jam companies, the Victorian they would lift the embargo on the importa­ Housewives' Association, and virtually all the tion of black-grown sugar into Aus~ralia ~ In big concerns in Victoria, South Australia and my opinion, nothing is more damagmg to. the Tasmania, which did everything possible opponents of Labour than such expressions against the sugar industry. as those that came from a Government who Their hostility was followed by the sending at that time we understood would protect the to Queensland of Senator McLachlan, who was far-flung districts of Australia, and particu­ Acting Attorney-General in the Federal larly North Queensland, the main support of Government, to rob the people of Queensland which was the sugar industry. of ~d. a lb., and that amounted in one year Under duress and because of the threat to something like £1,250,000. Mr. Lyons that something worse might happen, the could not come but he could not have done industry's representatives broke down. That better had he come, because Senator was very unfortunate, but they could not fail McLachlan was so well armed with arguments te realise the seriousness to the industry of against the sugar industry that it was not the threat that had been made. That threat necessary for Mr. Lyons to ceme. As soon would have been carried out if the industry's as the date of the projected conference representatives had not broken down in thei~ was made known, things happened. The hon. :fight against the Lyons Government. Counter Supply. [9 0CWBER.] Supply. 643 proposals were submitted to the Federal Gov­ A period of very nearly 16 years elapsed ernment by the State Government on behalf before the industry received an increase in of the sugar industry, but they were turned price. For 10 years of that period a Federal down. The representatives of the sugar indus­ anti-Labour Government was in power and try, knowing the intentions of the Federal therefore no representation was made to them Government and what they were prepared to to increase the price but as soon as the do, realised that it would be unfortunate and Labour Government got into power applica­ probably detrimental to them if they were to tion was made to that Government and an break off negotiations. They were aware of advance of one-halfpenny a lb. in the retail the very bad faith exhibited by the Lyons price of sugar was granted in 1947. Lilt Government and they had the knowledge that it be thoroughly understood that t~at was they were low enough to threaten to lift the the limit and total price that the mdustry sugar embargo and allow black-grown sugar asked of the Federal Government through to come into Australia. the Premier of Queensland. The repre,sentatives of the cane-growers of I hope that in harking back to the agree­ Queensland, not being satisfied with the con­ ment I shall not weary the Chamber to a ference presided over by Senator McLachlan, great extent, but it is of the utmost impor­ sought a conference with the Prime Minister tance to realise that in 1932 the Federal and that was held on 3 September, 1932. At Government, through their Prime Minister, this conference the Prime Minister, Mr. Mr. Lyons, virtually debarred any referen?e Lyons, spoke much along the same lines as to the cane-growers of Queensland to obtam Senator McLachlan had done in Brisbane and their approval to the proposal t~at was sub­ he again emphasised the risks that the mitted by his Government. Time was the industry would run by reason of the fact essence of the contract and the Federal Gov­ that it was objecting to the reduction of j!d. a ernment said that to delay the question might lb. in the pri

popularly known as Artie Fadden. On page Mr. BYRNE: Having regard to the 328 of '' Hansard '' for 1932, Sir Arthur :figures I have quoted, I ask hon. members Fadden is reported as having said- who reduced the price of sugar in 1932, and '' I agree with the Premier-'' who suffered as a consequence for many that is, Mr. Forgan Smith- years thereafter~ '' in his doubts as to what would be the I think I have pretty fully dealt with the fate of even an altered agreement. We question who reduced the price of sugar in know very well that the Sugar Agreement 1932. I have taken the precaution of quot­ ing statements made by various gentlemen was e~tered into; and, as Queenslanders we desrre that agreement to be carried out that could be easily proved by reference to in its entirety; but the cold fact remains documents, and I have proved the quoted that the Commonwealth Government statements made in this House by giving owing to pressure brought to bear by th~ page numbers of '' Hansard'' and the dates opponents of the industry-they are varied on which they were made. I do not think and many-have decided to amend it." for one moment that any hon. member of the Opposition can charge me with not having Mr. Walsh: Who said that? gone to some little pains to make these quotations. Mr. BYRNE: Sir Arthur Fadden, in this I wish now to refer to the financial Chamber. I suggest that hon. members position and the hostility engendered towards ?pposite read that speech and in order to Queensland and say that we can only con­ rmpress the reference upon their minds I template loss of employment as a result of repeat that it appears on page 328 ' of the restrictive policy adopted by the Federal '' Hansard'' for 1932. Government towards the State. They have The hon. member for Mulgrave referred been entirely unco-operative and are doing to the great benefits the cane-growers received everything to make it as difficult as possible as a . ~esult of legislation passed by an for the Queensland Government to carry on Opposrtron Government in 1914. I have their projected and necessary work. With searched through '' Hansard'' and other the cessation of the seasonal industries, such records, but nowhere can I :find that any as sugar and wool, the position will be such legislation was passed in 1914. A move worse than at present because there will be a for certain sugar legislation was made at flood of unemployment towards the end of that time, but it did not see the light of the year unless we are particularly careful. day. It was moved and seconded then some­ There will be a situation similar to that body came along with a big sti~k. I think which arose during the period of the Moore it was Sir Edward Macartney. Government when people had to leave their own districts to try to :find work elsewhere. lUr. Walsh: He was the leader of the The position will be acute and it will be Nationalists at that time. disastrous unless we as the Government are able to alleviate it to a great extent, but M-';. BYRNE: Something happened then. He. rs . Teported as having said that such I have sufficient confidence in the Premier legrslatron was only socialistic legislation and TTeasurer of this State and the Labour and as a result of his attitude no such Party generally to know that they will be legislation as that suggested by' the hon. able to alleviate that threat of unemploy­ member for Mulgrave ever saw the light of ment that is accentuating the worries of the day. workers of this great State. The various State projects already begun I have full particulars of Sugar Board will go on, but only at reduced tempo, prices for the various years and they are because of the non-co-operative attitude of very interesting indeed. w~ :fi'nd that in the Commonwealth Government. Already, 1931 the Sugar Board price was £18 6s. 6d. people in the North-and I have heard that In 1932, under the agreement about which the feeling exists in the South-are saying, I have been speaking, it was £19 6s. 1d. ''\Vill the depression as a result of the non­ What happened when the Lyons Administra­ co-operative attitude of the Federal Govern­ tion took the ~d. a pound from the cane­ ment be as severe as that which occurred growers of Queensland~ In 1933 the price under the Moo re regime~'' Even business ~ropped to. £17 4s. 3d., or £2 2s. less than people are worrying to a considerable extent. m the prevrous year. In 1934 it was reduced still further, as the result of the smashing I crave the indulgence of the House to of the agreement that had been entered into speak for a while on what is known as Com­ by the Labour Prime Minister Scullin with monwealth bonds. In my capacity as a Mr. MooTe, who was then Premier of Queens­ parliamentarian and one who has had a lan~. In 1934 it dropped to £16 10s. lld., considerable amount to do with the financial a drfference of about £2 14s. compared with affairs of cane-growers, I have at times what the growers received in 1932 The advised, and rightly so I think, that the small position was hardly any better in 1935 when investor should invest in Commonwealth the price was £16 16s. lld. In 1936 there bonds. The loan that was floated not very was very little difference, for it went up to long ago by the Federal Government was to only £17 1s. 4d. In 1937 it was £17 lls.­ a great extent supported by the small vil'tually no improvement-and in 1938 it investor, who thereby proved his loyalty. But dropped to £16 19s. 1d. and went to only what has that small investor got to show £16 19s. 7d. by 1939. So it went on. to-day for his investment~ On the one hand he sees that the interest rate has been con- ~fr.· Wordsworth: Keep going. 8iderably increased from what it was when 646 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. he subscribed to the loan at £99, and on the return of a Government more favourable to other hand he sees a loss of his capital to the progress and development of this great the extent of about £15 in every £100. What State than the present Federal Government. a shocking state of affairs it is when bonds issued by the Commonwealth Government at I had proposed to deal with the Federal £99 are worth only £85, and when the interest land tax, but I cannot do that today, as my on them is only at the rate of £3 2s. 6d. per time is just about up. However, I realise cent t If because of financial stringency, that the remarks that I had to make have possibly because of sickness in his family, evidently been driven home to hon. members the small investor wants to sell his bonds, he opposite-all their interjections have not faces a loss of £15 on every £100 invested, deterred me in the least. I was able to sub­ with the possibility of a further reduction in stantiate my case and I have given them the value of the bonds because the people much food for thought. of Australia have no confidence in the finan­ In conclusion, I congratulate the Treasurer cial administration of the Commonwealth on his Financial Statement and on the clear Government. Such a state of affairs is par­ and concise method in which he has intro­ ticularly fortunate from the point of view of duced it. I compliment him on husbanding speculators, members of stock exchanges and the resources of this great State as he has racketeers, who evidently had some prior done ancl I say that in his hands and the knowledge of what was likely to happen. It hands of the Labour Government the people is the small investor with very little capital­ of Queensland are assured that we can sur­ the man who was not sufficiently aware of the mount all the difficulties imposed on us by financial situation-who is suffering to-aay. the Federal Government. The result is that he has lost all confidence in the Federal Government, and that confidence lUr. EWAN (Roma) (4.37 p.m.): I can be restored only by the return of a listened very attentively to the Treasurer's Labour Government. presentation of his Budget and having had The Brisbane City Council, too, is suffering ample time since then to consider its impli­ as a result of the maladministration of the cations, I feel justified in expressing the financial affairs of the Federal Government. opinion that the economic stability of the I am aware, of course, that the Chandler State and the people has been completely dis­ administration left the city in such a hopeless regarded by the Queensland Labour Govern­ ment in the hope that a possible or prob­ mess, financially and otherwise, that it would be well nigh impossible for any newcomer to lematical party advantage may be achieved win quickly the confidence of the people. I at the forthcoming State elections. The fact that the Treasurer saw fit in an inflationary am very pleased to say, however, that the period to budget for a deficit of £288,319 is present -:Lord Mayor is a man of unbounded in itself an indication that the Socialist Gov­ cRpacity, and one who inspires confidence and ernment of Queensland have no regard what­ lrust wherever he goes. I am sure that the people of Brisbane and of the State generally soever for the economic stability of their people and it seems that the interests of the will bless the name of Frank Roberts and will have many heartburnings about ex-Lord State are to be subordinated to other things, Mayor Chandler. particularly when it comes to taking some essential economic action for the betterment The developmental works of this State are of the people, especially if that action may proceeding apace. It is obvious that this seem unpopular and therefore inexpedient in Government are doing everything possible view of an approaching election. It is in within the limits of their financial resources such circumstances that this Government are to develop the State. It is true of course prepared to let the economy of the State that it has bee;n necessary to curt~il expendi~ drift. ture in many of the large undertakings that are essential to its progress and develop­ In amplification of that statement let us ment. Financial restrictions and an consider that the Treasurer says that because unco-operative attitude on the part of the of the depredations by the Federal Govern­ Federal Government can only hinder, they ment this State was faced with the problem cannot stop these projects, which will even­ of dealing with a considerable amount of tuall;r come to fruition. They will go on unemployment and for that reason he has despite the financial restrictions of the caerfully husbanded the State's funds and Federal Government. We have unbounded has been able to create balances in trust faith in our own people and in our ability to accounts. carry these projects to their ultimate con­ clusion. I know that the people of this State This, he says, will now enable the Govern­ ~re. behind the Government in doing so but ment to disregard the decision of the Loan It IS unfortunate that the financial restric­ Council and to overtake the lag by using their tions will hamper our hospital and other trust funds. If the expenditurt;J of loan essential services and that for a time they funds to put on a pre-election spurt-does will be retarded and we shall not be able to enable the Treasurer to take up the lag that give the people the services thev require. Our he says exists in unemployment, what will hospital administration is such that we are happen if the economic position deteriorates going on with it although it is a national to any great extent after the election~ By ?isaster that hospitals cannot be more readily that time all this money that has been care­ 1mproved and developed. The time is fully husbanded by the Socialist Government not far off when we shall have a of Queensland will be expended. That is change in the Federal sphere with a the point. Supply. (9 OCTOBER.) Supply. 647

No body in the Commonwealth of Australia to a minute degree, by the efforts of the is carrying on more intensified propaganda Commonwealth Government to bring the or vilification of the Commonwealth Govern­ Commonwealth back to an economic ment than the Premier and Treasurer. They equilibrium. have endeavoured at every opportunity to pile the ills from which this State is allegedly 1\Ir. Walsh: What about the credit suffering at the door of the Commonwealth restriction by the Menzies-Fadden Government. The future will decide just how Government~ successful they have been. The Premier has llr. EW AN: We are hearing quite a lot flown all over Queensland, receiving deputa­ from the Treasurer; I am delighted to know tion after deputation asking for loans to start that I am getting under his skin. All the public works, and in reply, in his great afternoon he hardly interjected once and he ehristian charity, has placed his head in his was hardly interested in what was happening, hands and replied,- ''I should like to help and I am very glad to know that I have got you, but the Commonwealth Government will under his skin. He told us what the Socialist give us no money." (Opposition laughter.) Government had done for the State and When we probe more deeply into the actions alleged that the Menzies-]'adden Government of the Government, it is apparent that the had done nothing. I shall quote facts to show economic stability of the State is to be east how sincere the Treasurer is when he makes to the four winds of heaven in the interests such a statement. Let us consider the alloca­ of party politics. Hon. members opposite go tions made by the Commonwealth Govern­ blithely on their way carrying on their propa­ ment to Queensland. The following table of ganda and vilification of the Commonwealth figures shows the amounts allocated during Government, without any consideration of the the period the Chif!ey Government were in facts. They apparently think that the people power:- of this State are a great mob of ignormpuses, and that they are unable to understand the Income economic position for themselves. Year. Tax Reim- Roads. Loans. bursement. There is one elementary fact in economics, namely: where does the money come from £ £ £ in the first place~ It comes from the hard­ 1948-49 .. .. 8,832,622 1,326,000 10,618,115 earned earnings of the people. We have heard the Treasurer on innumerable occasions 1949-50 .. .. 10,230,827 1,700,000 11,959,000 say that his Government do not believe in Total £ 19,063,449 3,026,000 22,577,115 carrying out developmental works from I revenue, that the expenditure must be borne Let us see what the Menzies-Fadden Gov­ by the Loan Fund, and the responsibility east ernment gave to Queensland in the succeeding on posterity. Let us consider what the two years The figures are as follows:- elementary economics of the position are. - Funds for public works must be raised by taxation, or by loan, or, as the Socialists have Income Year. Tax Reim- Roads. Loans. been contending, by working the printing bursement. presses overtime. That means has been advocated by Dr. Evatt, the Leader of the F,ederal Labour Party, the Premier, the £ £ £ Treasurer, and numerous members of the 1950-51 .. .. 114,279,888 2,461,000 19,630,000 great ~ocialist Party of. Queensland. What 1951-52 .. . . 19,000,000 2,950,000 23,321,000 are Treasury bills~ They are unsecured loans for which the people have to be taxed to 33,279,888 5,411,000 42,951,000 provide for their interest and redemption. For comparative purposes, for the last two years of the Chifley Administration the Socialists will never accept the funda­ income-tax reimbursement was £19,063,449, mentals of national economy, which lay down and for the two-yeai: period under the Menzies­ that it is necessary to keep the requirements Fadden Government it amounted to for State and Commonwealth purposes as low £33,279,888. For main roads the amount as possible consistent with the fulfilment of allocated by the Chifley Government for the the national programmes in the interests of two years totalled £3,026,000 and the amount the future of the community. Is it not allocated by the Menzies-Fadden Government better, in view of the fact that the people was £5 411 000. The loans under the Chifley engaged in private enterprise find 75 to 80 Govern;nent for the same period amounted to per cent. of the total employment for the £22 577 115 and under the Menzies-Fadden workers o£ the Commonwealth as against Gov'erm'nent to £42,951,000. 20 to 25 per cent. by Governments to help these private employers to expand~ This Ne.ed I remind hon. members of the Gov­ Government and the speakers on the Govern­ ernment that under the Menzies-Fadden Gov­ ment side proclaim loudly that unless we ernment this State received in taxation get this money there will be widespread reimbursements for the year 1950-1951 unemployment, poverty, chaos and disruption. £2 814 000 in excess of tJ:ulir formula, and How ridiculous, how absurd and how untrue! £5'ooo'ooo more in 1951-1952, and for the They know very well that if the people of pr~sen't year this Government will rece~ve this State are allowed to expand their tndus­ £21,700,000 in taxation r6'imbursements, whiCh tries they will take up any transitionary lag is £4,200,000 more than the formula. (Gov­ in unemployment brought about because of ernment interjections.) We have the hon. the fall in our export commodity prices, and member for Ithaca rejuvenated. We gave 648 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. him a fair spin. H€. told us that in the last Mr. EWAN: If I told the hon. gentle­ year of the Chifley Administration we got 50 man he would not believe me. Therefore I per cent. of the total taxation collected in am going to quote the Hon. Forgan this State returned to us by way of grant. Smith, a former Premier of this State., who gives us the truth of the matter. I refer to JUr. Turner: 57 per cent. a statement made by him on 16 March, 1939, Mr. Eastment: 46 per cent. and I ask lion. members to pay particular attention becaus·e., after hearing what the JUr. EWAN: I thank the hon. member. Hon. Forgan Smith said, they will realise Of co_urse, h~ is a new member in his party the acrobatic facility with which the Treasurer and h1s expenence probably has not taken him gets out of his difficulties. This is what the into the realms of national finance as yet. He Hon. Forgan Smith said- would not realise that the. defence commit­ ments of the Commonwealth Government have " It is a mistake to believe, as some. increased by about four times----400 per cent. people do-and this is also a mistake that in the two years mentione.d. I have indicated newspapers often make-that the Com­ to the members of the Government that the monwealth raises money for and on behalf Menzies-Fadden Government have giv€n them of the States. This is not by any means everything they were entitled to and a darn the position at all. This Loan Council, sight more, in that the formula grant was comprising six members from the States exceeded in the last two years. They cannot and one from the Commonwealth, alone is deny that but they come here roaring like the authority to raise money and set out mad scrub-bulls assailed by cattle-dogs and the terms and conditions of any loan issue. complaining against the Menzies-Fadden There has been a tendency in recent years Government. (Government interJections.) to assume in some quarters that there exists a form of Commonwealth paternalism The CHAIRMAN: Order! I do not towards the States wihch, in reality, does know whether hon. members are trying to find not exist at all.'' out which is the member who is the first to be dealt with under the new Standing Order Amongst other things, he went on to say- 123A. If hon. members continue in the '' I need not go into details as to the manner they are doing, I will exercise the provisions of the financial agreement except power of dealing with them under that rule. to say that it set up the Loan Council to centralise borrowing by a uniform approach Mr. EW AN: I thank you, Mr. Farrell, to the market, thereby avoiding undue com­ for your intervention, not that it worries me petition on the part of the Commonwealth in the slightest. Perhaps your susceptibilities and individual States. are finer, and JHObably more so than members of your party and I appreciate your ''That section merely legalised and placed intervention. - statutory recognition on a practice that had prevailed over a period of years. Early The economics of the Labour Party in the in the '20's, the Governments of the day State of Queensland has deteriorated to suCh realised the effect of competition in regard an extent that the. Premier and many other to public loans, and they formed a volun­ hon. members are sque.aling as loud and as tary association of the Commonwealth so long as possible because they think all money as to get better terms, ·eliminate competi­ comes from Canberra. They have no regard tion and reduce the prospect of one whatsoever for the fact that all the money authority being played off against the they expend comes from the common man other. and woman. The taxpayers and the people of the Commonwealth of Australia are no ''The Commonwe'llth and each Stat·e. is longer going to stand for the irresponsible required to submit to the Loan Council a spending orgies of Socialist Governments programme setting forth the amount it throughout the Commonwealth. We know the desires to raise by loan for each financial state of health the Premier has experienced year for the purposes othe.r than the con­ ever since the Prime Minister intimated at version, renewal, or redemption of existing the last Loan Confe.rence that the taxing loans, or temporary purposes. Each pro­ powers would be returned to the State-an gramme shall state the estimated- total indication to the Premier and the Treasurer amount of such loan ·expenditure for the that at last we have a Commonwealth Gove.rn­ year, and the estimated amount of repay­ ment who will compel the irresponsible ments which will be available towards Socialist Governments to accept their respon­ meeting that expenditure. Any revenue sibility for the handling of the funds of the de.ficit to be funded shall be included in State. such loan programme, and the amount of such deficit shall be set out. I listened very intently to the facile passages in the Financial Statement in which ''That means, briefly stated, that at the the Treasurer seeks to detract from a full Loan Council meeting usua-lly held in and matm•e. consideration of the functions of June of each year skeleton budgets of each the Loan Council. State are submitted to this. body and the amounts that are to be made available lUr. Walsh: What are they? under the various headings are s·e.t out. Where any borrowing takes place, the Mr. EWAN: I knew he would walk in. borrowing is on behalf of the Common­ JUr. Walsh: I should like to see whether wealth and the States and securities of all you know what they are. gov·e.rnments are therefore pledged.'' Supply. (9 OCTOBER,) Sup:ply. 649

There is no need for me to go on. Those Commonwealth of Australia that same mane words of a former Premier of this State, the pays no taxation and on £400 he pays Hon. Forgan Smith, clearly indicate the £2 Ss. Od. Let us go to the basic-wage range acrobatic facility with which the present and take the sum of £500 and we :find that Treasurer gets out of his difficulties. in the U.K. a man would pay £13 4s. Sd., in New Zealand £37 10s. Od. and in Australia lUr. Walsh: There is no dispute about that statement. What we are disputing is £8 14s. Od. And in the £1,500-class we find the suggestion that the Commonwealth Gov­ that a man in the U.K. pays £308 Is. 4d., in New Zealand £313 12s. 6d. and in Australia ernment abide by decisions of the Loan Council. £208 3s. Od. Let us jump to the £5,000-income group and we :find that in the U.K. he pays JUr. EWAN: I take it the Treasurer £2,427 13s. Od., in New Zealand £2,333 Ss. 9d. would not like me to go on and mention the and under the Menzies-Fadden Government in voting strength at the Loan Council meetings' Australia he pays £1,940 3s. Od. Mr. Walsh: A majority of the Loan Mr. Walsh: The United Kingdom and Council decided to raise £247,500,000 and the New Zealand and Australia all have Tory Commonwealth said, ''No.'' Governments. lUr. EWAN: The Treasurer has endea­ llir. EWAN: Naturally hon. members voured to delude the. people of this State with opposite are upset because they see their his statement about the functioning of the dreams of uni:fication and the establishment Loan Council. This socialist Government of of a supreme economic council in the ful:fil­ Queensland stand condemned in the eyes of ment of their socialistic objective drifting th-e. people, of the ordinary man and woman away on the horizon before their very eyes. in the street, because of their insatiable The Treasurer denies that unification is the demand for the expenditure of more of the policy of the Labour Party. He also puts people's hard-won earnings. .. The men and forth a very unsuccesful effort to cloak his women of Queensland, those in the distant being upset at the fact that he will have to areas of the State in particular, will not be. assume his own taxing powers next .Tune. deluded. They realise that if this Government He has endeavoured unsuccessfully to cloak had their way they would socialise everything, his real intention, but the unsophisticated, they would have. complete State control and although thoroughly honest member for pay no regard. whatsoever to the individual Nundah-I am sorry he is not here-let the rights of the people to rear a family or to cat out of the bag when he told us that unifi­ live as a family should. They would deny cation was the goal of the Labour Party. a man the right to work in tlie interests of He told us that the Labour Party wanted his wife. and family. They would deny him rr supreme economic council established whose the right to work and build up an estate. function would be to direct people as· to the avenues· in which they should spend their The people of this State know full well money. However, I do not want to embarrass that no Government can give them something the Treasurer too much. I want to get on to for nothing. They are not fools. They exper­ more important subjects in the hope that he ienced Socialism in practice in the early mav see the error of his ways·. twenties, and they know that their experiences cost them over £5,000,000 of their hard-won When I read the Financial Statement I earnings. They have had experience of State saw a small paragraph that struck me very :fiascos such as Peak Downs, which has cost forcibly, and I should like to make a predic­ over £700,000, with a certainty of a greater tion in the hope that it will cause the loss in the near future. The people of this Treasurer to take stock of the Government's State demand freedom and the right to retain position while he may. at least 50 per cent. of their hard-won earn­ Mr. Walsh: You are not going to be ings and the right to invest their earnings as friendly, are you~ they think fit for the benefit of themselves, their wives and families. What this Govern­ JUr. EWAN: Of course, I am always ment do not realise is that no socialistic friendly. direction or compulsory legislation will alter I want to indicate to the Treasurer that those fundamental facts. That the much­ the economic rescue of Queensland and its maligned Commonwealth Government are people will be successfully undert<1ken early mindful of the fundamental facts is evidenced in 1953 by a Country Party-Liberal by the discussions that took place at the Government. recent Loan Council meeting to which the Treasurer takes such strong exception. The Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Commonwealth Government have indicated Mr. EWAN: I was amazed to read the clearly to him that steps will be taken to Treasurer's remarks about soldier settlement preserve the right of the individual to invest on page 21 of the Financial Statement. his money when, where and how he likes. llir. Walsh: We have spent £10 for every When we compare the taxation paid at pre­ £1 that the Commonwealth have spent. sent in the United Kingdom, New Zealand and Australia by a man having a wife and llir. EWAN: I shall come to that. The two children on income derived from personal paragraph of the Financial Statement that I exertion we :find that on incomes ranging have just referred to reads- from £1 to £400 he pays £11 18s. Od. in the '' The total cost to the State of soldier United Kingdom and in New Zealand the settlement to 30th .Tune, 1952, including rate ranges from £7 10s. Od. to £30, but in the Lands Department expenditure, exceeds 650 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

£3m., the funds for which were found by Federal Treasurer and vacate the field of the State. The Commonwealth up to date land taxation and allow it to revert to its has borne a relatively small part of the rightful place as a source of revenue for commitment made up of interest losses, local authorities. Of course, the Treasurer capital losses, rent remissions, share of road thinks that land taxation affects only the construction, and living allowances, which big man, which brings to my mind a property in total does not exceed one-tenth of the of 4,500 acres near Roma in my electorate State's outlays_'' carrying a sheep to 2 acres. I should like to remind the Treasurer that Mr. Walsh: Then ,it must be a very the Commonwealth Government offered to good property. :accept full responsibility for war-service land settlement in this State_ Queensland chose, l.Ur. EWAN: It is a very good property however, to accept full responsibility in that and it would not be freehold if it was not. matter, financially and otherwise, and to It has an area of 4,500 acres and carries allocate funds to it without regard to the 2,225 sheep. I leave Federal land tax out Commonwealth. I will accept the Treasurer's of the question, because that has been figures without question, although they do abolished. The Queensland land tax amounts not tally with those that the Secretary for to Is. 7d. an acre or 3s. 2d. a sheep area. Agriculture and Stock gave the hon. member Mr. Dufficy: You are entirely wrong. for Condamine. It is less than Is. Mr. Walsh: It was a Labour Govern­ ment who made that offer to Queensland and Mr. EWAN: I knew the hon. member we rejected it. ' would walk in. I will give the name of the man who owns the J!lroperty and I will give Mr. EWAN: It does not matter to me these figures too. I have brought them along what they were. Once again the Treasurer and I will table them. The State land tax can think only along party lines. The is Is. 7d. an acre or 3s. 2d. a sheep area, Treasurer's whole mental horizon is bounded on the basis of a sheep to 2 acres, and this, by the activities of the A.L.P. He does not mark you, after he had taught the land from care a brass farthing about the national the Crown and paid for it. interests, so long as things are all right with Mr. Walsh: What is the valuation of the A.L.P. iU The Treasurer proudly tells us that this 1\'Ir. EWAN: The hon. gentleman is not State has spent £3,000,000 in settling returned going to waste any more of my time. Lease­ soldiers on the land, that this State has done holders on similar country in this area are it a.s a princip!ll State. Let us compare that paying a rental of about 9d. to IOd. an acre, achrevement wrth that of Western Australia or approximately Is. 6d. a sheep area. Such an. agent State with half our population; a state of affairs should be remedied if whrch has spent £12,358,719 over the same there is any justice in the land. period. To the agent States of Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania the I want to deal with the hon. member for Commonwealth Government have allocated Warrego, who I see is in the Chamber. £7,?00,000 for expenditure during this year, That hon. member was a particularly good whrle Queensland in its full administrative industrial advocate for his union, but responsibility has allocated the miserly sum imagine my amusement when he got up in of £676,500 for the year. Surely nothing to this Chamber after the speech delivered by be proud of! It is to be hoped that the the hon. member for Condamine, who as Queensland Government will endeavour to usual made a good contribution to the improve their dismal record in the settlement debate, as a practical man would, having had of ex-service men on the land by forthwith a lifetime of experience behind him. getting out of their socialistic fiasco at Peak The hon. member for Warrego, in his usual Downs and making that land available in a la industrial-advocate style said- suitable areas for returned-soldier settlement. ''. . . . . the hon. member for Conda Now let me consider the subject of land mine who, by his remarks about the Crown tax. Apparently the State Treasurer is not lands in Queensland, showed that he knows prepared to follow the worthy example set nothing about the subject at all ..... '' for him by the Treasurer in the Common­ J.Ur. Dufficy: Which is perfectly true. wealth Gavernment of vacating this field of taxation. In principle land taxation is i'llr. EWAN: The hon. member for unquestionably a repudiation of original Condamine has had a lifetime of experience contractual obligations because the original on the land, and there is no need for me to contract was entered into bv the owners of defend him. The ridiculousness of the state­ the freehold land with the Crown when they ment made by the hon. member for Warrego bought the land. They bought it free of all is such that I am amazed, and can encumbrances. only conclude that the hon. member must Mr. Walsh: That is not true. have deteriorated in the city atmosphere, for I am sure he never would have made Mr. EWAN: It is true. The hon. gentle­ such a statement in the Industrial Court. man will have an opportunity of speaking Let us have a look at him. I am not a later on. He is too much of an acrobat judge of age but I should say he is about for me to worry about. 45 or 46. On his own showing he told us, If the State Treasurer has any sincerity and I know it to be true, that he was at all he will follow the example of the employed by the A.W.U. in 1928 as an Supply. (9 OCTOBER.] Supply. 651

organiser. Later on he became secretary of self-opinionated people in various public the A.W.U. at Charleville, and I am patting positions who have had no praetical him on the back for doing a good job. The experience whatsoever. hon. member for W arrego posed as expert Let us consider the incidence of rentals. in land matters. He was employed by the The hon. member for Warrego said that it A.W.U. in 1928, 24 years ago, so we can assess the period in which he was born, had no influence in the economic sphere. Let me tell him that rentals have a considerable reared and gained experience in land influence and wherever you travel in the State matters in the limited period of 21 years. you will hear graziers complaining of them. The hon. member for Warrego, according At the last Land Court held in Roma 134 to himself and the Government, is an expert cases were heard and the rentals were on land matters. The Government appointed increased from 400 per cent. to 700 per cent. him a member of the Royal Commission in every case. that investigated certain matters associated J\Ir. Walsh: Who did that? with the settlement of pastoral lands in 1950-1951. He must have been very proud J\Ir. EWAN: The Land Court. of his appointment, because all of his land experience was gained from birth to 21 years J\Ir. Burrows: Do the Government tell of age. In his unsuccessful reply to the Land Court what to d'o. the hon. member for Condamine, he said he Mr. EWAN: Too right they do. Let us had, as a m@mber of the Royal Commis­ consider the method of determining land sion, the privilege of listening to the rentals. Section 125 of the Land Act says­ evidence of graziers throughout the State and he never heard one of them say that their '' The Court, in determining the rent of rental was of any importance whatsoever in a pastoral holding or Grazing Selection, their business. shall have regard to- ( a) The quality and fitness of the J\Ir. Dufficy: Which happens to be true. land for grazing purposes; (b) The number of stock whid1 it may J\Ir. EW AN: I am joining issue with reasonably be expected to carry in aver­ the hon. member. I let the facts speak for age seasons; themselves. The hon. member for Warrego was appointed' to that commission on 31 (a) The distance of the holding from August, 1950, and he resigned on 25 Janu­ railway or water carriage; ary, 1951. The first public sitting was held (d) The natural supply of water, and' in Brisbane on 16 October, 1950, and. on the facilities for the raising or storage 23 November the commission held its first of water; country sittings in Gladstone. From Novem­ (e) The amount which experienced ber, 1950, till late February, 1951, no country persons would be willing to pay for l~nd sittings were held, owing to adverse weather of similar quality in the same neigh­ conditions. The evidence was completed on bourhood; and 2(} August, 1951. It is apparent that the (f) Any other matters which in the hon. member for Warrego had the privilege opinion of the Court affect the rental of hearing the evidence of graziers here in value of the land: Queen street and in Gladstone. When I hear Provided that in determining the rent the hon. member attacking a practical man regard shall not be had to any increase in like the hon. member for Cond'amine I think the value of the holding attributable to I am doing the hon. member a good service improvements.'' in telling him that we are awake to him. I think we can leave the hon. member for We know there has been difficulty in the Warrego to lick his wounds and recover. court in relation to that section and that the Supreme Court held that the Act could not J\Ir. Dufficy: Is that all you have to say be interpreted as written. I would suggest about me~ that in view of the ambiguity of the Act in Mr. EWAN: Yes. relation to the determination of rentals at least it is the duty of the Minister to have J\Ir. Dnfficy: I am very disappointed. at least that section recast in a form that can be readily understood by simple people Mr. EWAN: I do not want to say any and not make it a football for the legal more about the hon. member. I am sorry fraternity. that the Secretary for Public Lands is not present when we are dealing with this very I had intended dealing with many other important subject. In view of the great matters but in the time at my disposal I responsibility that will devolve on the Minis­ had better get on to the more important ter in the settlement of great areas of this subjects. We heard the Minister indicate in State in the near future, I suggest to him his last speflch in this Chamber on land that he be very careful before accepting the matters that he believed that country capable advice or opinion offered to him on many of running 3,000 sheep could be classed as a of the land matters with which he will deal. living area. It is very necessary that the Minister should Mr. Walsh: In certain areas. only accept advice from practical men of many years' standing-men who have actively Mr. EWAN: The hon. member for participated in the various forms of primary Balonne, dealing with the subdivision of production in the various districts. I hope Noondoo, which I say was brought about the Minister will not be led astray by the more from motives of political necessity and 652 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

:as a result of the necessity to save the hon. suggest that when opening this land the Gov­ member's political hide than from any desire ernment pay due regard to the need for <>n the part of this Government to open it giving all settlers an area that will run at for closer settlement in the interests of the least 5,000 sheep. That would mean giving people. them from 15,000 to 20,000 acres out there, Mr. Power: I had nothing at all to do because that country will run only one sheep with it. to 3 acres. The hon. member for Balonne indicated that he thought that 220,000 acres Mr. EWAN: I am not talking to the of freehold country left to the Australian hon. gentleman, although he may have a Pastoral Company would enable them to guilty conscience. Anyhow, the hon. gentle­ depasture 70,000 breeding ewes. That area man had a vote in Caucus over it. would never do that. The CHAIRlUAN: Order! One thing that worries me is that the hon. member for Balonne said that no request had 1\'Ir. EWAN: That land was opened to been made by the Australian Pastoral Com­ save the political scalp of the hon. member pany for the exchange of an equivalent area for Balonne. It was indicated to the House, of Noondoo for Amby Downs freehold. on the words of the hon. member for Balonne, that that area of 331,000 acres would be Mr. J. R. Taylor: That is right. opened and in from 10,000 to 15,000 acres. The number of blocks, as indicated by the Mr. EWAN: Then why does the Minis­ Press. is 27. That was where the hon. mem­ ter state in the Press that Cabinet has ber for Balonne was fairly accurate in his considered the proposal and rejected it. I forecast. Divide 331,000 by 27 and you will understand that the Australian Pastoral find that it works out at about 12,000. Company is prepared to give a certain area of Amby Downs, which is freehold country Mr. Power: Don't you think it should situated in a 22-inch rainfall belt, in exchange be cut upW for an equivalent area of Noondoo leasehold. Mr. EWAN: Of course I think it should Mr. Power: Do you say we should have be cut up. It is the policy of my party and accepted it~ always has been one with which I fully concur. 1\'Ir. EWAN: I am not saying what the There appears to be some little difficulty Government should do, but I should like to in relation to the cutting up of this land. know whether the Government did make any (Government interjections.) inquiries. The hon. member for Balonne said that someone had approached him and said The CHAIRMAN: Order! that this company was prepared to give Amby Downs-he said 64,000 acres but I understand Mr. EWAN: The hon. member for it is 71,000 acres, of freehold land in a 22-inch Balonne indicated that the blocks would be rainfall belt, for 150,000 acres of leasehold on from 10,000 to 15,000 acres and he thought Noondoo, but he had said that Cabinet did it would carry from 3,000 to 3,500 sheep. A not consider it because the proposal was never block of 10,000 acres on Noondoo would made to them. It was made to them. It was not carry 3,500 sheep. made to the Land Administration Board, and, Mr. Walsh: You do not know what you in the words of the Minister, as published in are talking about. '' The Courier-Mail,'' Cabinet considered it and rejected it. I want to know whether the Mr. EWAN: The honourable the responsible Minister discussed the proposal Treasurer knows everything. He is now with the responsible officers of the Australian blossoming into an expert on land matters. Pastoral Company. There seems to be some­ The only knowledge he has of land is running thing wrong here, because Amby Downs could around a tin pot cane farm without any be cut into 10 blocks for mixed farming. boots, and he made a dismal failure of it. It is in an area that the Minister says is (Government interjections.) suitable for agriculture, and it is the Govern­ ment's intention to settle as many people as If this Government are sincere in their possible there. If 71,000 acres of freehold avowed object of settling this land they country at Amby Downs was offered for an should open these blocks on N oondoo in areas equivalent area of Noondoo, the Government capable of running at least 5,000 sheep. were failing in their duty in not accepting That is known to any practical man, and the exchange. there are a few on this side. There is at least one hon. member on the Government Mr. Power: So you agree that they side who knows it. should have accepted it~ He does not say much but I hope he gets lUr. EWAN: Yes, because in another 28 up and supports me in this matter. I refer years that 71,000 acres of Noondoo would to the hon. member for Barcoo. He knows again be available for the settlement of t_hat if you put people out there with 3,000 people, but we know that the Aastralian sheep on that area in a 17-inch rainfall belt, Pastoral Co. will never lose Amby Downs if you are in effect committing them to debt for this Government are to acquire it at the the whole of their lives, because they will present-day value for the settlement of never be able to build up a reserve fund to people. If they had accepted the exchange, tide them over a dry period; they will be they would have been able to open up the same running continuously to this Government with number of blocks and to settle the same cap in hand seeking a handout. I seriously numb6lr of people they intend to settle, and Questions. [10 OciTOBER.) Questions. 653 in another 28 years they would have 71,000 acres available for closer settlement there. If they do not accept the offer they will have 71,000 acres locked up in freehald land at Amby Downs. I notice the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock looking at me and I want to say that I sympathise with him, because I know what his officers have reported and I know that those reports have been completely ignored by the so-called experts in the Land Administration Board. Seeing that the Government have allocated only £667,500 for closer settlement in the State I appeal to them to take cognizance of the position with regard to the Wandoan­ Taroom area where about 450,000 acres are frozen. The sum of £600,000-odd is inade­ quate to purchase all the Jand and they should tell the people what land they want and let the rest go into production. The Government are ruining it. If they will take that action in that area, dividends will be paid. I do not see the Minister for Transport in the Chamber but I hope that he will endeavour to do something to improve the iniquitous conditions under which drovers have to live on stock trains. They are living under conditions worse than those the hon. member for W arrego and the hon. member for Port Curtis like to talk about. There is a bunk with a lavatory in the middle of it and no supply of water. The conditions are shock­ ing and not fit for pigs to live in. I trust that the hon. gentleman will take steps to alleviate the position. (Time expired). Progress reported. The House adjourned at 5.39 p.m.