Wisconsin Veterans Museum Research Center Transcript of an Oral History Interview with Rev. Ray W. Stubbe Navy Chaplain, Vietnam War 2005-2006 OH 953 1 OH 953 Stubbe, Ray W., (b.1938). Oral History Interview, 2005-2006. User Copy: 9 sound cassettes (ca. 539 min.); analog, 1 7/8 ips, mono. Master Copy: 9 sound cassettes (ca.539 min.); analog, 1 7/8 ips, mono. Transcript: 0.1 linear ft. (1 folder) Abstract: Stubbe (b.1938), a Wauwatosa (Wisconsin) native, discusses his service as a Navy Chap- lain during the Vietnam War with the 9th Marine Amphibious Brigade, 26th Marine Regiment, 3rd Marine Division. Stubbe recalls enlisting in the Navy Reserves before his senior year of high school and attending a two-week boot camp at Great Lakes Naval Training Center (Illinois). After graduating high school, he was assigned to active duty on the USS Noa , where he served on the deck force for two years before attending Yeo- man “A” School at Bainbridge (Maryland) and becoming a Yeoman Third Class. In 1958, Stubbe left active duty to attend St. Olaf College (Minnesota) but continued to serve in the Reserves. Stubbe graduated in 1962 with a degree in Philosophy and then attended Northwestern Lutheran Theological Seminary in Minneapolis, graduating in 1965. While at the seminary, Stubbe describes attending Navy Chaplains School, which he calls “boot camp for ministers,” in Newport (Rhode Island). Following the seminary, Stubbe went to the University of Chicago Theological School to get a Ph.D. in Ethics and Society; however, he left after one year because the Navy needed chaplains in Vietnam. Stubbe reveals seeing photos of POWs in Life [magazine] inspired him to join the war. He mentions his classmates did not support his decision to go to Vietnam, and he dis- cusses his Lutheran faith and his study of the philosophy of war . Stubbe describes in de- tail Chaplains School in Camp Pendleton (California) where he was assigned to a Marine regiment. Contrary to custom, he chose to participate in infiltration courses and night exercises in order to understand what the Marines went through. Stubbe suggests this compromised his chances for promotion in the Chaplain Corps. In June 1967, Stubbe was stationed in Khe Sanh (Vietnam) with the 3rd Marine Battalion, 26th Regiment. He analyzes at length his relationship to the enlisted men; while he tried to be their friend, Stubbe avoided carousing with them. He calls being Chaplain a “lonely position.” Stubbe explains he supported conscientious objectors because a Marine unprepared to fire on the enemy was a danger to the unit. Stubbe comments that the Department of De- fense required the Chaplain to determine whether a conscientious objector had authentic, religious grounds for objecting. Stubbe tells a detailed story about Jonathan Nathaniel Spicer, a minister’s son who objected and was later killed transporting wounded soldiers. Stubbe describes taking supply helicopters each morning to the Marine outposts on the hills around Khe Sahn to lead worship services. Stubbe thoroughly describes his time with a Special Forces Unit (a group of pro-American Vietnamese training with the U.S. Army) camped in Lang Vei near the Laotian border. This camp had been overrun in April 1967 during the Battle of the Hills when North Vietnamese spies infiltrated the camp, killing two commanding officers. As a result, when Stubbe visited the base, fences sepa- rated the Vietnamese allies from the American troops. Stubbe discusses strategic ten- sions between the Army Special Forces and Marines that caused problems during the 2 Battle of the Hills. He also describes going on a Marine patrol, which was unusual for a Chaplain. He depicts military life and lists common medical problems, such as: dehydra- tion, cuts from bamboo, leeches, constant dampness, and “immersion foot.” Stubbe praises the natural beauty of Vietnam and provides some geological history about Khe Sanh and the D’Ai Lao Pass. Stubbe also describes the Bru, an indigenous mountain peo- ple who were ethnically distinct from the Vietnamese and loyal to the U.S. Stubbe spends most of his time speaking about the Siege of Khe Sanh which began in January, 1968. He covers the commanders’ overall strategy as well as the effects of the siege on individual Marines. Stubbe also analyzes battle tactics of the North Vietnamese . Stubbe states that during the Siege of Khe Sanh, known as Operation Scotland, his unit of 4,500 Marines took 2,500 casualties. The official death report was 205 Marines, but Stubbe estimates 475 were actually killed. He offers explanations for the discrepancy: the Ma- rine Corps did not count Army deaths or wounded Marines who died after being evacu- ated from battle. During the siege, Stubbe was not allowed to hold regular church ser- vices, so he developed a ten-minute sermon with communion that he performed from bunker to bunker. He portrays the young troops as joking and displaying a “gallows hu- mor” to keep up morale. Stubbe contends that men “did strange things in battle.” For ex- ample, a Marine risked his life to get a jar of maraschino cherries from the mess hall, which he gave Stubbe as a present. He also refers to a famous photograph [taken by Dick Swanson] of Stubbe giving services to Marines in which everyone had unsafely removed their helmets. Stubbe describes activities and life during the Siege: often the Marines did not have enough rations or water; they had no showers; and they wore their uniforms un- til they “rotted out.” After Khe Sanh, Stubbe was stationed in Quang Tri (Vietnam) for four months where he performed memorial services for fallen soldiers. In 1969, Stubbe went home on a thirty-day furlough. He reports his mother was shocked because he had lost a lot of weight and was talking and thrashing in his sleep. Stubbe’s bishop at home asked him how he could “spend his time with such immoral people” (i.e. the Marines). Stubbe was reassigned to the USS Shreveport in 1970. He reports spending a couple years in Norfolk (Virginia) where he trained with some Navy SEALs, eventually going to Jump School in Fort Benning (Georgia). Stubbe mentions he was transferred to Okinawa (Japan) in 1973, where he met Oliver North on the Marine Corps Birthday. Stubbe states that North was very personable and beloved by his men; years later, North interviewed Stubbe for his TV program, War Stories . After Okinawa, Stubbe spent six years at Great Lakes Naval Base (Illinois). He states he began to write about Khe Sanh more often, and in the 1980s, around the dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, he began having nightmares. Stubbe explains he attended a Stress Unit (group therapy) to deal with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Stubbe spent three to four months as an inpatient on the Stress Unit at Great Lakes, then had about six months remaining before he could retire from the Navy. Stubbe describes himself as a “basket case” and explains that he took leave to visit the Vietnam Memorial in Washington D.C., which brought back painful memories and caused him to check into the Stress Unit again. Stubbe comments it was considered unusual for a Chaplain to be in the Stress Unit. While there, he formulated two goals: to form a group for Khe Sanh veterans and to publish his writings about Khe Sanh. Stubbe did reunite with forty Khe Sanh Veterans at a memorial parade in New York City and later at a reunion of the 3rd Marine Division Association in Florida. In 1988, Stubbe incorporated the Khe Sanh Veterans Association, Inc. in Wisconsin. Stubbe 3 discusses at length the publishing history of his book [ Valley of Decision ] about Khe Sanh. It wasn’t publicized well by Houghton Mifflin Press but was eventually reprinted by the Naval Institute Press as a paperback. Stubbe also mentions self-publishing a book called The Final Formation that lists casualties of Khe Sanh and the position of their names on the Vietnam Memorial . Stubbe explains how he collected 100,000 pages of suggestions, memoirs, poems, letters, etc. about the Khe Sanh Siege from veterans and their families. With this information, Stubbe self-published a book detailing the Siege day-by-day and providing background information on individual Marines. Finally, Stubbe spends much of the interview discussing people. He characterizes Colonel David Edward Lownds, the commander at Khe Sanh, as unassuming and soft-spoken and praises his sense of humor and ability to make tough decisions. Stubbe also repeatedly mentions Harper Bohr and Col. James Bascom Wilkinson. He spends much time de- scribing Major Mirza Baig, a Pakistani-American who served as the Target Intelligent Officer at Khe Sanh. Stubbe characterizes Baig as a “genius” who singlehandedly fig- ured out how to read a top-secret electric sensor defense system . Stubbe also frequently mentions Eugene Poilane, a French botanist who founded a coffee and fruit plantation in Khe Sanh. According to Stubbe, Poilane imported Vietnamese workers because they were considered better workers than the Bru. Stubbe met his son, Felix Poilane, who was born and died in Khe Sanh. Stubbe corresponded with Felix’s wife Madeleine for several years after the Vietnam War. Stubbe mentions other civilians living in Khe Sahn, includ- ing: Pastor Loc, an Episcopalian Vietnamese missionary, and Father Poncet, a Catholic priest who rode a motorbike. Stubbe speaks at length about John and Carolyn Miller who were Wycliffe Bible translators in Khe Sanh. These missionaries lived with indigenous groups who had no written languages, trying to transcribe their languages and translate the Bible. Stubbe was impressed by the Millers because they “listened before speaking;” they studied the Bru language before preaching.