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Report of the Committee of Whole
"Mode of elections of Members of Senate"
Senate of Pakistan (May-2016)
Committee of Whole Introduction:-
Mode of elections of Members' Senate of Pakistan has remained a debatable point. revolving around trvo areas; (l) Members of Senate shall be directly elected or otherwise? (2) Rigging and floor crossing in the electioneering process.
Pursuant to the Senate Elections held in March 2015, the issue of rigging and floor crossing again came to the limelight which led to the debate regarding mode of elections of Members' Senate of Pakistan. The Upper House assumed its role and responsibility by taking up the issue on its own; the House Business Advisory
Committee (HBAC) took up the matter and after discussing all aspects, it rvas decided that the matter may be brought before the House for discussion and making recommendations.
Constitution of Committee of the Whole
As per the decision of HBAC, the 'Mode of elections of the Members' Senate of
Pakistan' was discussed in the House on 76 August, 2015. Members debated the issue and expressed views above party lines (Verbatim of debate in the House is ennexed as "A"). The House, after extensive debate felt the need to constitute a Committee of Whole on the matter, accordingly a motion was moved by the Leader of the House on 10s August, 2015 and Committee of the Whole was constituted to consider mode of elections of Members of Senate, pros and cons of single transferable voting system, altemates, poll reforms and other ancillary matters.
Proceedings of Committee
First meeting of Committee of the Whole was held on I le November, 2015, wherein nineteen Members shared their proposals and thoughts on the matter (verbatim of
Committee proreeding is annexed as'B'). A gist of proposals/deliberations is as under:-
l. Senator Farhatullah Babar: Secret ballot is basis of comrption in the Senate Elections . This menace can be curbed by making an appropriate amendment in Article 226, Constitution, 1973 to provide for 'open ballot'.
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Senator Raja MuhammallZafar ul Haq, Leader of the House: There shall be a mechanism to curb the furancial corruption; option of proportional representation, in line with various intemational models, can be examined. 3. Senator Ilyas Bilour: GeneraVdirect elections for Members of Senate; this can lead to equal powers, especially in respect of Money Bills, etc.. Independent
candidates shall be debaned from contesting elections as they are main cause of frnancial com.rption. Padies shall allot tickets to genuine party workers only. 4. Molana Abdul Ghafoor Haidri, Deputy Chairman Senate: There has to be an effective strategy to control the usey'abuse of money involved in the electioneering process, the strategy shall focus upon that how can we stop financial influences?
5. Senator Muhammad Usman Khan Kakar: Members of Senate shall be directly elected by the public and their constituency shall be the provinces. It has many benefits e.g. if a political party is in majority in a Province, its strength will reflected in the results; it is an apprehension that some people try to use monetary influences to win support of MPAs, if all residents of the province will be entitled to vote then it will be very difficult to buy thousands ofvoters. Senator Taj Haider: Main point for decision is that we want elections on party basis or on individual basis? Prime Minister cannot be elected from Senate as Senators are indirectly elected; similarly Upper House is less represented in the Cabinet, same is the case with the powers of Senate, therefore, Members of Senate will have to be elected through direct elections. Provinces may be bifrrcated into single member constituencies arrd l/3d or % seats can be reserved to give representation to all schools of thought in the
Senate.
7. Senrtor Mushahid Hussain Syed: opposed the direct elections to the Senate as Senate is the House of the Federation , it has a distinct identity, otherwise it will be faced with the same problems/issues as are/will be faced by the National Assembly; Senate will become a clone, a replica of National Assembly. There are many international examples wherein direct elections to
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Senate have resulted io'rich men's club 'as it is a very costly process. Issue of financial corruption in electing members of Senate is an issue which needs to be addressed. Furthermore, there is need to evolve a mechanism to give
representation to Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir in Senate, may be status of
observer or honorary Senators. 8. Senator Lt. General (R) Salahuddin Tirmizi: Direct elections will be very expensive; agreed with the proposal of Senator Farhatullah Babar that elections
shall be made through open ballot. 9. Senator Mir Hasil Khan Bizenjo: Direction elections to the Senate may be held on the provincial base proportional representation, Election Commission
may be empowered to probe into allocation of financial comrption in electing a Member of the Senate. Defection clause as provided in the Constitution may be
amended to provide for financial influence/ cotruption in Election as a ground of disqualification.
10. Senator Mohsin Khan Leghari: Supported the single transferable vote system(STV) and secret ballot system. Provinces shall be represented in true letter and spirit, specially Federal Capital shall be represented through its original and actual residents. The Member also made reference to a Resolution passed by the Senate regarding election of Members Senate of Pakistan from Federal Capilal by the Local govemment representatives. (copy of Resolution is annexed as 'C") I l. Prof. Sajid Mir: not supported direct elections as it will amount to broaden basis for financial, comrption. We need to strengthen the existing system by curtailing the possibilities of abuse of money; this can be done either by continuing the existing system or by opting for proportional representation of parties i.e. on the basis of lists which shall be published and independent
candidates shall be banned. l2.senator Syed Shibti Faraz: there can be many complications in direct election; need to strengthen the existing systern by rectirying the issues being
faced in its effective implementation.
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13. Senetor Abdul Rehman Malik Members of Senate and indirectly elected by the provincial assemblies, same is the case with the Prime Minister, he is also indirectly elected by the Members of National Assembly. If we talk about direct elections, then prime Ministet and President will have to be elected through direct elections. Word 'indirect' is being wrongly used as a directly elected Member of Provincial Assembly elects its representative for the Upper House. There shall be amendments in the Constitution to the effect that independent members shall be debarred from contesting elections, frrtherrnore,
Prime Minister can be from either House of the Parliament.
14. Senator Shahi Syed: supported existing system and stressed the need of effective role of Election Commission of Pakistan in curtailing/curbing the financial influences in the electioneering process.
15. Senator Saeedul Hassan Mandokhail: Secret balloting maybe abolished; independent candidates may be debarred from contesting elections for the
Senate and name of MPA shall be printed on the ballot paper.
l6.Senator Syed Muzafar Hussain Shah: Mode of election is secondary, need to ascertain/enhance powers of the Senate , a committee can be constitutiotr to seek view points of all political parties as general debate itself should not be enough.
lT.Senator Hidayat Ullah: another Committee of the Whole for Senate powers
may be constituted; supported the existing system of elections to the Senate, name of MPAs may be published on the ballot papers; right to contest elections
cannot be denied to independent candidates. lS.Senator Javed Abbasi: supported the existing system; amendment in the Constitution to provide for that the Prime Minister can be from either House of the Parliament.
l9.Senator Advocate Muhammad Daud Khan Achakzai : highlighted seat adjustrnens between the major political parties.
Second Meeting of Committee of the Whole was held on l2e May, 2016. Wherein eighteen Members shared their proposals and thoughs on the matter (verbetim of Committee proceeding is ennexed rs "D'). Gist of proposals/deliberations is as under:-
Committee of Whole 6 l. Senator Mohammad Azam Khan Swati: Senators should be elected directly by direct populous vote of people in their respective provinces: direct vote will take Senate to a higher recognized institutional pedestal and it will be easy for
Senate to fight its second phase of getting its glory and power. (The Hon'ble Member elso submitted proposals in writing which are annexed as "E") Senator Sardar Azam Khan Musakhel: Powers of Senate be enhanced through direct elections.
Senator Ch. Tanvir: Direct elections will open a new Pandora box; true representation of Provinces shall be ensured, candidates shall be actual residents ofthe province they are representing; technocrats shall fully fulfil the criteria; Senate shall be given role in the budget; there has to be a mechanism
wherein Members representing their areas shall be given opportunity to raise issues and same shall not be debarred on the pretext of being 'provincial issues', hence not admissible. Senator Abdul Qayyum: Existing system of electioneering shall continue, however, rigging in the forms of financial comrption and floor crossing shall be strictly dealt with; political parties shall adhere to the norms of democracy within the party setup and specially for allocation oftickets. Senator Mir Kabir: Direct elections will result in exuberant increase in finance involved in the election process. giving example of General Elections
in his province, the hon'ble Senator shared that only such people who can spend money can contest elections; existing system is. by and large good, but we need to reform"the processes in order to avoid financial comrption; voting against the party policy in Senate elections shall be made a ground of defection; existing procedure of voting may be simplified, financial powers of
the Senate shall be enhanced. Senator Khalida Parveen: existing system shall prevail however the same can be improved; open ballot in order to curb corruption; party elections shall be
held in transparent manner.
7. Senator Osman Saifullah Khan : there is an impression that Senators, nit directly legislators, are less legitimate as compare to Members of National
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Assernbly which is incorrect as Constitution has attributed.different roles to the Senate and National, earlier is the House of Federation whereas later is the House of Representatives. Direct elcctions to both House will result in cloning of the National Assembly in the Senate, which was not the intention of the
dafters of 1973 Constitution. Ballot through show of hands will become a mechanical exercise; there shall be more technocratVspecialized people in the Upper House, We can take long term decision al we are not part of election
cycles; there has to be democracy within the political parties. 8. Senetor Jehnzcb Jemeldini: prwailiag system has many lacunas, number of
seats may bc enhanced, Powers of Scnate needs to be enhanced in line with teh
constitutional scheme, STV leads to abuse of money, elections will have to ve direct, however, ifit is not possible to adopt any other system then rectiry the weaknesses of the existing system. 9. Senator Mohrin Aziz: Senate gives equal representation to Provinces, hence represent the federating unis in true spirit of federalism; only actual representatives of provinces, and not just the domicile holders, shall be allocated by the politicat parties; existing system is in line with the 'equal representation of; financial comrption needs to be addressed; criteria of technocra8 need to be improved; possibility of open voting system ( even
through electronic voting) may be explored.
10. Senator Dr. Ksrim Khaweja: powers of Senate need to be enhance; Prime Minister shall be elected from with House of Parliament; either proportional repr€sentation or direct elections, criteria for technocrat was amended in Musharrafs time, it may be restored status of FATA may also be given to Gilgit Baltistan. ll. Senator Nehal Heshmi: powers of the Senate need to be enhanced; tenure of
Senate is reasonable, parties can allocate tickets division wise. l2.Senator Cot @) Syed Tehir Hussain Meshhedi: Senate has unique powers, we derive powers from the federating units, direct elections have its own pitfall specially the amount of money involved; show of hands is not a proper way, if
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it is show of hands then we do not need election at all as strength of a party is always known. l3.senator Sitara Ayaz: powers of Senate. existing system shall continue, however, same can be improved by introducing show of hands or printing name of MPA/MNA on ballot, criteria for women and minorities may be improvised. 14.Senator Ghous Khan Niazi: 1973 Constitution conceived Senate as protector
and representative of federating units, the existing system shall continue, there are certain hiccups which can be improved, specially the involvement of rigging/floor crossing in the Senate elections.
15. Senator Nuzhat Sadiq: Existing system/mode adheres to the basic structure of the Constitution, this system shall be strenglhened. 16.Senator Mobammad Ali Khan Saif: supported the existing system; need to strengthen the ECP to keep check, the number of Seats specially for
technocrats can be increased
17. Senator Najma Hameed: supported the existing system and stressed the need to improvise the same.
18. Senator Hamza: indirect elections gel with the scheme of 'House of Federation'; political parties need to bring transparency and democracy within the parties which will lead to eradication of financial ro any other form of
com.rption either in the General Elections or in the Senate Elections.
International Practices Ind literature reviewed bv the Committee
The Committee studied international models of second chambers existing in the bi- cameral Parliaments, which included, Rajya Sabha (India). United States Senate, senare of Malaysia, Senate of Kenya , senate of the Republic (Italy), Senate of canada, Senate of the Republic (Mexico), Australian Senate, Senate of Ireland (SeanadEireann).
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The Committee also examined following documents which were generated from Forum of the World's Senatel:-,
(U Senates around the world (Annered as'F)
(iD Bicameralism around the World: Position and Prospects (Annexed as "G")
The Committee also made reference to "Report on Second Chambers in Europe "Parliamentary complexity or democratic necessity?" by Mr Patrice Gdlard (2006). (Aorered rs sH")
Basic questions:-
The extensive debate, literature review and public perception lead to following basic questions?
l. Mode of Elections of Member's Senate of Pakistan--direct or indirect? 2. Required reforms in the system? 3. Indirect Elections-Senate Powers: nexus or myth?
Q,1 Mode of Elections of Member's Senate of Pakislon-dircct or indirecl?
The Senate of Pakistan is a permanent legislative body which symbolises a process of continuity in the national governance. Article 59 read with Article 218 and 226, Constitution, 1973, stipulate the composition, term of o{fice and voting methodology.
Said Articles are reproduced as under:-
Article 59, Constitution, 1973
'i( I ) The Senate shall consist of one-hundred and four members, of whom- (a) fourteen shall be elected by the members ofeach Provincial Assembly; (b) eight shall be elected from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, in such manner as the Prcsident may, by Order, prescribe; (c) two on general seats, and one woman and one technocrat including
I On 14 March 2OO0 the French Senate brought togerher representatives of Senates from around the world. This important evcnt offered an opportunity for renewed reflection on bicameralism and its contributions to democracy. The Senate was instmmental in founding the Associalion of European Senates.
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aalim shall be elected from the Federal Capital in such manner as the ?resident may, by Order, prescribe; (d) four women shall be elected by the members of each Provincial Assembly; (e) four technocrats including ulema shall be elected by the members of each Provincial Assembly; and (f) four non-Muslims, one from each Province, shall be elected by the members of each Provincial Assembly: Provided that paragraph (0 shall be effective from the next Senate election after the commencement of the Constitution (Eighteenth Amendment) Act, 2010.
(2) Election to fill seats in the Senate allocated to each Province shall be held in accordance with the system of proportional representation by means of the single transferable vote.
(3) The Senate shall not be subject to dissolution but the term of its members, who shall retire as follows, shall be six years:- (a) of the members referred to in paragraph (a) of clause ( I ), .seven shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and seven shall retire after the expiration of the next three years; (b) ofthe members referred to in paragraph (b) of the aforesaid clause, four shall retire of the expiration of the first three years and four shall retire after the expiration ofthe next thxee years; (c) of the members referred to in paragraph (c) of the aforesaid clause,- (i) one elected on general seat shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and the other one shall retire after the expiration of the next three lears; and (ii) one elected on the seat reserved for technocrat shall retire after the first three years and the one elected on the seat reserved for women shall retire after the expiration ofthe next three years; (d) of the memkrs referred to in paragraph (d) of the aforesaid clause, two shall rethe afrer the expiration of the first three years and two shall retire after the expiration ofthe next thrce years; (e) ofthe members referred to in paragraph (e) of the aforesaid clause, two shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and two shall retire after the expiration ofrhe next three years; and (0 ofthe members referreo to in paragraph (0 of the aforesaid clause, lwo shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and two shall retire after the expiration ofthe next three years: Provided that the Election Commission for the first term of seats for non- Muslims shall draw a lot as to which two members shall retire after the first three years.
(4) The term of office of a person elected to fill a casual vacancy shall be the
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uoexpired term of the member whose vacancy he has filled."
Article 2lt, Constitution, 1973 *218. [(l) For the purpose of election to both Houses of Majlis-e- Shoora (Parliament), Provincial Assemblies and for election to such other public offices as may be specified by law, a pernanent Election Commission shall be constituted in accordance with this Article.]
[(2) The Election Commission shall consist of,-
(a) the Commissioner who shall be the Chairman of the Commission; and
(b) four members, each of whom has been a Judge of a High Court from each Province, appointed by the President in the manner provided for appointment of the Commissioner in clauses (2A) and (2B) of Article 213.1
(3) It shall be the duty of the Election Commission [Omined] to organize and conduct the election and to make such arrangements as are necessary to ensure that the election is conducted honestly, justly, fairly and in accordance with law, and that corrupt practices are guarded against."
Article 226, Constitution, 1973
"226. All elections under the Constitution, other than those of the Prime Minister and the Chief Minister, shall be by secret ballot"
In a nutshell, Composition, mode of election and terms of members is as under:-
Composition:-
104 Members to be elected by the Members of Provincial Assemblies and National Assembly in the following ratio:- a) Each of the four Provincial Assemblies elect fourteen Senators on general seats, four women, four technocrats including Ulema (religious scholars) and one on seat reserved for non-Muslims;
b) The Members of the National Assembly from Federally Administered Tribal Areas
(FATAs) elects eight Senators to represent FATA;
Committee of Whole t2 c) AII Members.of National Assembly elect two Senators on general seats and one woman and one technocrat or Alim to represent the Federal Capital.
Term
The Senate is not subject to dissolution, however, term of each member is six years whereas one half of its members retire after every three years.
Proportional Representation-Single Transferable Vote (STV)
Election to fill seats in the Senate allocated to each Province shall be held in accordance with the system of proportional representation by means of the single transferable vote.
Role of Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP)
It is the duty ofECP to organize and conduct elections to the Senate of Pzrkistan and to make such arrangements as are necessary to ensure that the election is conducted honestly, justly, fairly and in accordance with the larv, and that comrpt practices are guarded against.
Vote by Secret Ballot
In terms of Article 226, Constitution, 1973, voting in the Provincial Assemblies and
National Assembly shall be through secret ballot.
Dircct or Indirect Elections?
The question that rvhy the second Chamber was created leads to the answer as to the mode of elections of the Members of the said Chamber. The drafters of 1973 Constitution conceived the Senate of Pakistan as a permanent body for protection and representation of the federating units by balancing the provincial inequality in the National Assembly and. dispelting doubts and apprehensions, if any, regarding deprivation and exploitation. Reference can be made to the "National Assembly of Pakistan (Constitution Making) Debate", Official Report dated Sunday, the 31st December, 1972 at page No. 11, wherein, the then Minister for Law Mr. Abdul
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Hafeez Pirzada (Late) while making submission to the House regarding the intent and rational for providing the federal structure, stated as under:-
"Sir, it has been provided that there shall be a federal structure - there shall be two Houses - to be called Parliament, The Lower House shall be the National Assembly which will be the House of the People elected by direct adult franchise by secret ballot in accordance with delimited constituencies on the basis of the last census report ond the National Assembly shall consist of 200 members. For a period oftun yean 70 seab have been reserved additionally for women. Representation has also been given to the Federally Administered tribal oreas and to the Federal Capital Area both in the Senate as well as in the Assembly. The election to the Senate shall be by indirectfranchise. That is to say the Senate Memberc shall be elected by the Provincial Assembly because the Senate is the representative of the Provinces. Therefore, Senate has to be electcd by the Provincial Assembly and by a single tmnsfemble vote. This is also in accordance with the Constitutional Agreement which was arrived at that there must be representation of the parties in the Senote in the same proportion os they are represented in the provincial Assembly, Therefore, by the single nansfemble vote the Senate shall comprise all parties represented in the Provincial Assembly. Sir, the strength of the SenaU for the four provinc* of West pakistan and the Federally administered tribal areas and the Federal Capital area has been fixed at 60; each province has been given 74 seats and then two have been given to Centrally administered tribal areas and two n the Federol Capital area."
Reference is also made to official report ofsaturday, February t2,1973, at page No. 69, wherein, Minister for Law, Mr. Abdul Hafeez Pirzada (Late) made following submissions:-
"Senate is the most important introduction in this Constitution to provide for a tntly and genuinely Federal form of Federal Constitution in the county notwithstanding the tremendous dispari| in the population ofvarious provinces ranging from 1.5 or 1.6 million in one province to 33 or 34 million people in the largest provinces. We have accepted the status of the provinces. The federating units are equally represented in the Itpper House."
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Reference is also made to the very first Point of Order raised in the Senate of Pakistan on 6"'August. I973. which is reproduced as under:-
"Mr. Kamran Khan: Point of Order. This House has been constituted in accordance with the prcvisions of the Constitution. I will refer to Clause II of Article 59, which says "Elections tofill seats in the Senate allocated to each province shall be held in accordance with the system of proporlional representation by means of one single transferable vote". Now here sir, proportional representation means that the idea behind this was that the strength of all political parties in the provincial assemblies should be reflected in this Senate. ll/hereas, we see.
Presiding Oficer: No, where do you draw this conclusion from?
Mr. Kamran Khan: It is clearly laid down because if the proportional representation had been meant for giving representation to the provinces, that would have been clarified.
Presiding Ofricer: Your point oforder is that the elections to the Senate were not held on the basis ofproportional representation.
Mr. Kamran Khan: Yes sir.
Presiding Officer: In what way?
Mr. Kamran Khan: The parties in the Frontier prottince and the Balochistan (lt was Frontier at that time) are not represenled in this House according to their strenglh in the Provincial Assemblies.
Presiding Oficer: Do you mean to ssy that there should not have been any elections. So4ebody should have chosen members of lhe Senate in proportion to the number of members of each party in the provincial assembly?
Mr. Kamran Khan: No, sir, my submission is that there should have been elections.
Presiding Oficer: If the elections have been held on the basis of proporlional representation with a single transferable vote and the result has been announced by lhe Chief Election Commissioner, there is no question to it.
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Mr. Kamran Khan: I do not question the decision of the Election Commissioner sir. The elections were held in all fairness in the provinces as far as the Election Commission was concerned. Presiding Wcer: You can't do that due to provisions in the Constitution but at the moment the members of the Senate who hove been elected or chosen are taking oath and afier the oath ceremony is over and the Chairman is elected, you can raise this point oforder.
Mr. Kamran Khan: Thank you sir.
Mr. Kamran Khan: No sir, my submission that there should have been elections.
Mr. Presiding Ofiicer: If the elections hove been held on the basis of proportional representation with a single transferable vote and the result has been announced by the Chief Election Commksioner, there is no queslion to it.
Mr. Kamran Khan: I don't question the decision of the Election Commissioner sir, the elections were held in all fairness in the Provinces as far as the Eleciion Commission was concerned. Mr. Presiding Olficer: You can't do that due to provisions in the Constitution but at the moment the Members of the Senate who hoye been elected or chosen are taking oath and atier the oath ceremony is oyer and the Chairman is elected you can raise this Point of Order.
Mr. Kamran Khan: Thank you sir."
Even in international parlance, the fact that bicameralism is often associated to federalism entails that second chambers frequently represent the difGrent parts ofthe federal State. The territorial representation is the commonest form or representation in second chambers, with subnational entities - as provinces, regions, departments, municipalities, etc. - represented in the second chamber. As stated in a2006 report of the Venice Commission, second chambers 'are necessary, and will become increasingly so, in federal states and ones that are constitutionally regionalised or heavily decentralised, where second chambers represent geographical areas whereas
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first chambers represent peoples.2 Most second chambers in Europe are selected by indirect suffrage. This leads to criticisms that such voting systems are undemocratic
and tend to result in very restricted tumover of representatives. Indirect suffrage is not in itself undemocratic but it must be based on clear and transparent rules. In other words, it has to be asked whal purpose the second chamber serves. The method of selection should flow quite naturally from the answer to this question. If experienced men and women are required, an age limit is justified, as well as possibly other
conditions. If the aim is to represent local authorities, it is only reasonable that the authorities themselves should choose their representatives.3
The following table encompasses variations in Selection, composition, powers and Role of Second Chambers in Selected Federations
Composition, end Powers of Some Federal Second Chambcrs Argentina Senate: elected by direct rote; one-third o@ two yeirs to a six-year term; absolute veto. Australia Senate: direct election @y proportional representution); equal iiil representation; absolute veto (but followed by double dissolution and joint sitting).
Austria Bundesrat: elected by state legislatures; weighted representaUon lrange 12:3); suspensive veto (may be overridden by simple majority in lower house, the Nationalrat).
Belgium Senate: combination of directly elected (40), indirectly tGcted by linguistic Community Councils (21), and co-opted senators (10); variable representation specified for each unit; equal competence with House of Representatives on some mattem but on others House of Representatives has overridilrg power. Brazil Senado Federal (Senate): 3 members from each state and federal diitrict elected by a simple majority to serve eight-year terms; one-third elected after a four-year period, rwo+hirds elected after the next four-year period; absolute veto.
Canada Senate: appointed by federal govemment; equal regional representation jo: 1 fgSlqqal gqups of provinces (Ontario;
2 Comparative overview ofconsultative practices within the second chambers of EU national legislatures, Comminee of the Regions 3 Reporl on Second Chambers in Europe "Parliamentary complexity or democratic necessity?" by Mr Patrice Odlard (2006).
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Quebec; 4 westem provinces; 3 maritime provinces) plus 6 for Newfoundland and one each for the 3 territories; absolute veto (legally) but in practice weakened legitimacy.
Ethiopia House of Federation (Yefedercshn Mekir Bet): 7l members (63%) appointed by regiorul bodies and 4l (27%) appointed based on population and ethnicity. This body serves as the supreme constitutional arbiter. Members serve five-year terms. For members selected by states, directly or indirectly elected according to decision of state councils.
Germany Bundesrat: state govemment ex officio delegations; weighted voting (3, 4, 5 or 6 block votes per state); suspensive veto on federal legislation overridden by corresponding lower-house majority, but absolute veto on any federal legislation affecting state administrative functions (60% of federal legislation reduced to about 40% by reforms in 2006); mediation. India Rajya Sabha (Council of States): elected by state legislatures (plus 12 additional representatives appointed by the President for special representation); weighted representation of states (range 3l:l); veto resolved by joint sitting. Malaysia Dewan Negara (Senate): 26 (37W elected by state legislatures plus 44 (63%) additional appointed representatives for minorities; equal state representation (for 37o/o of total seats); suspensive veto (six months).
Mexico Camara de Senadores (Senate): 128 seats in total; 96 ( 3 per state) are elected by popular vote to serve six-year terms and cannot be re-elected; 32 are allocated on the basis of each party's popular vote; absolute veto.
Nigeria senate: each state has tbree seats while one senator represents the Federal Capital Tenitory. A total of 109 senators are directly elected for a four-year term; absolute veto (except taxation and appropriation bills resolved by joint sitting) with joint committees to resolve deadlocks.
Russia Federation Council (Soviet Federatsii): Asymmetry of len$h of term and method of selection depending on the republic or region. Each unit has 2 representatives in the Federation Council, one elected by of the constituent unit legislature, the other appointed by the governot; dispute resolution by joint committee which may be overridden by two-thirds majority in lower house.
South Africa t lational Council of Provinces (NCOP): 90 seats, consisting of 54 representing provincial legislatures and 36 representing provincial executives; equal provincial representation (6 legislators plus 4 executives per province); veto varied with type of legislation.
Spain Senate: ZOg directly elected member s and 5l appointed by parliaments of 17 Autonomous Communities; categories of 4, 3 or one directly elected senator(s) per provinces (sub'units of Autonomous Communities) supplemented by t"pte!"@
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to population) appointed by each autonomous parliament; suspensive veto (2 months).
Switzerland Council of States: in practice direct election (direct election by plurality; method chosen individually by all cantons); 2 representatives for full cantons and I for halfcantons; absolute veto (mediation committees).
United States Senate: direct election since l9l3 (by simple plurality); equal state representation (six-year terms with one-third elected every two years); absolute veto (mediation committees
The above mentioned statement regarding selectioo' election of Members of the upper
House clarifies that there are variation in the mode of election of Members depending upon the nature and the purpose for which the second chamber has been created. The
Senate of Pakistan represents the provinces/territories of the country and promotes a feeling of equality. peace and harmony, which is so essential for the growth and prosperity of a nation. Therefore, the Election procedure in is line with the basic scheme of Federalism.
Direct elections will be an expensive exercise which u,ill result in mini general elections after every three years, hence, rnaking House of the Federation a rich men's c/uD, furthermore, small political parties will be completely eliminated which will result in political polarization. Senate membership is divided into various categories which includes Technocrats and Aalim, this categorization needs to an effective upper House playing a role in policy oversight and giving guidelines for policy making. Direct election will be an attempt to eliminate these categories from the composition of the Senate and this House will become a replica of the National Assembly.
In view of the above mentioned and making note of the constitutional scheme regarding the bicameral parliament, deliberations made and international practices, it can be concluded that the existing mode of Senate Elections adheres to the intention of legislature to create the second chamber for providing adequate representations to the federating units, therefore, any amendment to convert indirect election into direct elections will be against the basic structure of the Constitution. However, the existing system needs some reforms which are being dealt under the next question.
Committee of Whole Q 2. Required refoms in the system?
During the deliberations almost every member stressed upon the need to curb the element of financial comrptior/ nggin! floor processing in the Senate Elections.
Some Members proposed that elections may be held by way of an open ballot as opposed to the secret ballot.
The committee feels that there is a dire need to provide a mechanism for ensuring transparency and accountability in the Senate Elections. The most common complaint is regarding voting against the party lines by taking financial benefits from the candidates, which cannot be proved later on as Article 226, Constitution, 1973 provides that elections shall be held by secret ballot. Therefore, with a view to address this issue and in order to provide a transparent mechanism for Senate Elections, question no. 2 is answered in the following terms:-
l) Name of a MNA./MPA, voting in the Senate elections, shall be printed on the ballot paper;
2) Elections will be held through secret ballo! however,, a proviso may be added to Article 226, Constitution, 1973, to provide that in case of Senate elections, the Parliamentary Party Leader in the respective legislature may, after declaration of results, may request the competent authority to show him the ballot paper, bearing the name of his party member, in order to ensure that the
Member has voted in accordance with the party lines. This will largely curb the tendency of floor crossing/voting in favour of a candidate against the party lines by taking financial benefits.
3) Article 634, Constitution, 1973, may be amended to provide that voting or abstaining from voting in the House contrary to any direction issue by the Parliamentary Parry to which he belongs, in relations to Senate elections, shall
be a ground of defection.
4) Article 62 shall be amended to provide that a person shall not be qualified to be Member Senate of Pakistan unless he is a residen! for five years, of the
Commlttee of Whole 20
Province, or as the case may be, the Federal Capital or the Federally Administered Tribal Area, from where he seeks membership.
5) The Resolution passed by the Senate (annexed as "C") regarding election of Members Senate of Pakistan from Federal Capital by the Local govemment representatives may be implemented.
6) The existing Presidential Order regarding election of Members belonging FATA may be reviewed in order to provide a permanent mechanism for said elections in line with the constitutional scheme of Federalism and to make it transparent.
Q.3, Indirecl Elections-Senale Powers: nexus or myth?
Most of the Members, who proposed direct elections to the Senate, based this proposal on the sole argument that'it.will enhance powers of the Senate especially in respect of Money Bill'. This perception needs to be rationalized as intemationally, many Second chambers, which are not directly elected, have the financial powers. Moteover, seventy Members of the National Assembly, who are not even indirectly elected but are selected / nominated, casts vote on Money Bills. A fundamental question arises that when a Member of Senate can become Minister for Finance then why the other
Members are being deprived of their role in budget process and financial process. The issue raised regarding powers of Senate is a separate issue which cannot be extensively dealt with in this report, therefore, a distinct sEategy will be adopted to take up this issue.
Conclusion/ Recommendations
In juxtaposition the committee recommends as under:'
l) The existing mode of Senate Elections i.e. indirect elections adheres to the intention of legislature to create the second chamber for providing adequate representations to the federating units, therefore, any amendment to convert indirect elections into direct elections will be against the basic structure of the Constitution. . Committee of Whole 77
2) The existing system needs reformation in order to make it transparent.
3) Name of a MNA/Ir4PA, voting in the Senate elections, shall be printed on the ballot paper;
4) Elections will be held through secret ballot, however, a proviso may be added to Article 226, Constitution, 1973, to provide that in case of Senate elections, the Parliamentary Party Leader in the respective legislature may, after declaration of results, may request the competent authority to show him the ballot paper, bearing the name of his party member, in order to ensure that the
Member has voted in accordance with the party lines. This will largely curb the tendency of floor crossing/voting in favour of a candidate against the party lines by taking financial benefits. 5) Article 63A, Constitution, 1973, may be amended to provide that voting or abstaining from voting in the House contrary to any direction issue by the Parliamentary Party to which he belongs, in relations to Senate elections, shall
be a ground of defection.
6) Article 62 shall be amended to provide that a person shall not be qualified to be Member Senate of Pakistan unless he is a resident, for five years, of the Province, or as the case may be, the Federal Capital or the Federally Administered Tribal Area, from where he seeks membership. 7) The Resolution passed by the Senate (annexed as "C") regarding election of Members Senate of Pakistan from Federal Capital by the Local government representatives may be implemented.
8) The existing Presidential Order regarding election of Members belonging
FATA may be reviewed in order to provide a permanent mechanism for said elections in line with the constitutional scheme of Federalism and to make it
transparent .
9) Issue regarding powers of Senate is a separate issue which cannot be extensively dealt with in this repor! therefore, a distinct srrategy will be adopted to take up the said issue.
Committee of Whole z7 ,t4nnex-,A"
101-07AUG2015-- tARtQ/t.r). 11.00AM.
THE SENATE OF PAKISIAN DEBATES
OFFICIAL REPORT
I ridav August 0/,2015 (118'" sc.sion) Vclume lX, No.05
(No5. )
PJale4 eLd!!b! s h e!-byl!4s letl-scsElligLble aebg d.
Y-qilloq U 5!-.=U(9412S15 No.05 15 .a3
Announcerhent by the Chairman Resarding Consideration for Providing Speedv and lnexpensive Justice in the Countrv in the meeting of the Committee of the Whole -efi L r L:t t c I Lp Lugr qa JgtT,rl i4 7U
The matter stands referred to the Defence Committee. There is a group of 119 students of MBBS and BBS 4th year- from the Bolan Medical College, Quetta which is sitting in the galleries. Lct me welcome them to the Senate.
Before we move on to thc agcnda item, let me make an announcement. A meeting of the Committee of the Whole constituted to consider the report referred by the Housc regarding provision of inexpensive and speedy justice in the country will be held on Tuesday, 11th August 2015 at 1030 a.m. in the
Senate Chamber. Proposals reccived from the experts/stakeholders have been circulated along with the notice to the members. Verbatim of the opinion, suggestions given in the first meeting of the committee as well and some detailed annexures are available in the library of the Senate. c-G,,, & Zi ( *Jl r a n n exu res Ji t,-r I v cA t, iti €- v e rbatim Lmeetings 1fi gr / z ltbraty,'cE L/*ltcirculate/otat.;lthey run into hundreds of pagesL4:voluminous
6, 7 opinions circulate6tTi t L ( *r ^/ -q e( So the meeting is lnsha Allah on Tuesday at 1030 a.m. in the Chamber.
Discussipn on the Mude of Election in the Senate Now we move on to agenda ltem No. 12 which is the discussion regarding the mode of elections of the members in the Senate. Before I give the floor
{!ef initiative House Business Committee--/a- 7tl&-o:rl,,bu/ il it'lF G
rn electoral reforms U ,tt elections /-.:"i:- U! r, v! 6., x i l.:+ J ,f Oi Jf I 'V tlr - u.,u LelectionsI rtet if bJ1,I 13.1<./71./'-q,5,xt& lelectoraI reformsZ-
-q 1 r ::V r-,h H ou se,,t J / t :/ tt, ./ Lr,,l' lq r-7 ; 7' i btl qt uf + * "
33 . l) ,/i- |
basically there are two schools of thought -/Uxlt,,rtl tf 1 P tt,.>t6/,,
trt z? vt transparencyLf proce ss r*, ql }firansparenal lgtt u(,t.,i r t,j/ 1 41 5/ -gQ-t 6 ri,1 6t.$ 6recommendat ionsz a I,VL{ J't}CLlDnect election-;pr}rrrrf,
stngle ./,,t ,/ ol ,:t grt-17 -$9rr recommendations{House, tohviously rrr$ gx ,t,i
y' i (transferable 4 * LLtt n V Li et .l Lconcept 1973 proportionate election '-'rzl6sV 6u/a,,1-vl $,{t 6dct.,ttLou.r* -Ai i) ieL;rr,{ phitosophy
L1f fitr av,z-:tr political spectrumry' & ef s/r.ul:constit uency,Surttrlr.FtJtr )$./vt:rreflect.,trLjt;lpslitical spectrum "r+r ,7/ Sule/ si ^[/ trr political thoughts within the provlnce can find the expression at the federal je nationalist t- -at t 4qfeeling of dt oty Lisolation Jit -tt / isolation.,rr level
\ t r ttr -L reflection dt t dt 1 t)la ,,r Lg { .,r, ! Llt ,+ f' ,,t ui 1,f movements =t $ ltsl I Jt oG t/ s' $,,1 L/ r,a 6 boo kl et cir cul ate z / -i r/ t f ,i v 6 pnil osophy gru-,u et , -q Z/ 6A 6 -t ,;,' 0,,,, L4/ -i,1( z7 t r: tlP. + 4<.- oath trsession
-7 historical recordo i7 tt* d ttyL=it t) rtt, oleverbatim
"Mr. Kamron Khon: Point of Order. This House hos been constituted in occordance with the provisions of the Constitution. lwill refer to Clause ll of Article 59, which says "Elections to fill seats in the Senote ollocoted to eoch province sholl be held in accordonce with the system of proportional representotion by means of one single transferable vote". Now here sir, proportionol representotion means that the ideo behind this wos thot the strength of all political porties in the provinciol ossemblies should be reflected in this Senote. Whereos, we see.
Presiding No, where do you this Officer: drow conclusion from? . >S
Mr. Korhron Khon: lt is cleorly laid down because if the proportionol representotion hod been meant for giving representotion to the provinces, that would hove been clarified.
Presiding Officer: Your point of order is thot the elections to the Senote were not held on the bosis of proportionol representotion.
Mr. Komron Khon: Yes sir.
Presiding Officer: tn whot woy?
Mr. Komran Khan: The porties in the frontier province ond the Bolochistan
(lt was Frontier ot thot time) ore not represented in this House occording to their
strength in the Provincial Assemblies.
Presiding Officer: Do you meon to say thot there should not have been ony
elections. somebody should hove chosen members of the senate in proportion to
the number of members of each pony in the provincial assembly?
Mr. Komron Khon: No, sir, my submission is thot there should hove been
elections.
Presiding Officer: lf the elections have been held on the bosis of
proportionol representotion with o single tronsferable vote ond the result hos
been onnounced by the Chief Election Commissioner, there is no question to it.
Mr. Komron Khon: ldo not question the decision of the Election
Commissioner sir. The elections were held in oll fciirness in the provinces os far os the Election Commission wos concerned.
Presiding Officer: You con't do thot due to provisions in the Constitution but ot the moment the members of the Senote who have been elected or chosen ore toking ooth ond after the ooth ceremony is over ond the Choirmon is elected, you can raise this point of order.
Mr. Komran Khan: Thank you sir.
35 L6
Next...T1O
T 10-07 AU G 201 s...... FAN t/Altof E 0...... 1 2. j0 P M u4&F,-h
Mr. Komron Khan: No sir, my submission that there should hove been elections. Mr. Presiding Officer: lf the elections hove been held on the bosis of proportionol representotion with a single tronsferoble vote and the result has been onnounced by the Chief Election Commissioner, there is no question to it. Mr. Komron Khon: t don't question the decision of the Election
Commissioner sir, the elections were held in oll fairness in the Provinces os for os
the Election Commission wos concerned. Mr. Presiding Officer: You con't do thot due to provisions in the
Constitution but ot the moment the Members of the Senote who hove been
elected or chosen ore toking oalh ond after the ooth ceremony is over ond the
Choirman is elected you can raise this Point of Order'
Mr. Kamran Khan: Thank you sir."
r tu gt / zt { 3,s gr -,i )!ti (,r fl egislatu r es LJ, in G z /3 basic./ a 1, 44 -i L er! ri
gi rE r .4Sor ry t.t )r e't .,,.t $ ; ) t t)t / L $,r,.{ | OOi v. . / rl, tf , $ -,v - -'v 6 -,.{
then we will carry this discussion into the next weak I don't rush tut'J*i" L,f
t subjectr ).,:fi through it )t e,)g-4-y t) x J \6 l-il dt/ 1V q{t r Timportant - 5{ _;Vtt
Senator Farhatullah Babar
Business Advisory u: r9-( )t,ll, ;tt 1,r.t it s),2 4 - =-t&fr =U cx,i lrgD!r $1ut c.,L L,ca-) L,)* L=T/onYl ,-h'V.,l,z-l-i.,rrCommittee
E I Refo r ms t b 2-5, t- :.'sf P arl i a m e nta ry Co m m ittee on ectora I -/ L t / Lu: i )rq' 36 L?
c.a" 6'rf -,l.iL ritLuriLtrt'; )rV J + ->t.ni j ) r-ii ---:),5 o./:r;'E JLrlt between the forty second bi rthday I qy v{, *, - A c, / exer cise,,f Oi,,tti Bitthday which was yesterday and the forty third birthday which will be here form now this Senate would have arrived at some conclusion, to how to reform election
4 r.t/,Vblt LJ:r tt U x v I cb :V tV { $ t,g, i3 of the Sen ate Pakistan. ri =h
r, Z-t r fil t./ ui ot L.t t pt op ortio n a I re p re se nt ation ./tt,l' i L r l- fr +/ zi =V House of ;, 1f' ;',i$ a"u.6? j4.- jf ,irL,, r 1lA,.{-c,6up,Ldf l trt, not by direct election butbv l+rf dt,r5,,,,,, 19iqt|'iv,;tLFederation
.>L.ul) 4)t qtltsingle transferable vote in the proportional representation system (JiLihU,+ui,>.,,/ JsV fteOerating units 1A t allouse of Federation I 6LI
gg,1,i1A St jvl gr a )tl$M. ne5r7 n )t2i-)!ot oti ritLFedeftting unft.fi la$)ra? 7Yl proportional i ;1) ozr t ./ L;n Ltt' +y urr reflect cf tlt gtlr ;n , g( .>X single transferable vote in my view that is as of today and for 7 Urepresentation
-+?c I ed disturb tf a q 2 1t{the foreseeable future
6-: ot€' t L t C ),./ I +VV *f 7 i tl - u sl el/,,, *,- L 4 s,.t t*,/ $ fi :V
y' qil,f '&r 1-f'tg'L1: -(q,.,:r;iLt;'>t:/.Lt,e '/ ,+t),0'i1);,t,;t ->u€'rL->x
g t, ? c, t tl :' | ).elector al college/,,* 6j u t, : ) : 7, ;/ 1,4 !- ; v L.> f 6 l. od t 1uv and this always been a blot and willcontinue to be a blot t4'z--xJ / ,i.>tntL./ t 4issueo ttijl-[:,,,ron the fair nam of the Senate, of the House of Federation
r t l / i f L,;r, z-v.. c i a ddr essr ; / ( - f t :t ;t,>tt ) - t L->x' -,Q #-, J + f 4 lt,,t i -/ + let us sit together and discuss it among L,,t it L,;r' z-v-t,l tl1/ I ./ qq-19 overselves, we know Mr. Chairman, that the Senate has great internal strength '37 Lg
and if this is weakness of the Senate the horse-trading, the money bag transferring hand and this is weakness of the Senate let us admit it. Once you admitted and once you have great internal strength you can surely address your
6,13":.€1i11.,y,,1,,"/+VVl,r+t urtrft(tL;ttiweaknesses with hope and frankness +
r i q 6 ;F z J,,/ - Article 2266 { / q 6i :rV d, -C*,, 4} u {,., / ttt t d i& zh a t)n cll tt,l t-f gn-t c,- g,P Lt, ! ! I /q d; h,,rc-i,i +,t L6,F Lt., 4 u alrvoting
* i tF' t i Ltt .- 1 ) 4 i L,/- t 1A / + V V r,.t r.t Articl e 226 Li t, 4i ;* t ii 4 - 'tLb6()Lf iigfl/r1i16s Prime Minister and the Chief Minister and this Lrr .u8+i 4'.,1*gl rl1;,l,1"li6xby show of nand f *!i-gt)tttf .:-t!G\)tt
(' q r jr t.r -- $-,t [q, 7 $ -- +, 4 l ; $.- L i,,f 4i t/t ./ o x vd s 4 ] 1)t;,ci' ct: V
( v, -9 .-- - r d -, fr - 7 tf $ J 4 L1 r n .- 6,P i-r., *t ! u! 2207 r/,1- i *i!, - a-t, jy A 1,f i,t 4 rf , r $, I f,./ electoral collaget7 .,,t c-- G /, E r "i + a -- f /,,' -
r g,€ ,!l tf 6, r l, 4, 1 by show of hand L/ ( / z-t, 4 1 I ^/€e-f r,/ba tance strive frr?electoral college 17,f,tt)y -,!",/sav.,rrinput t)lrry',1yr,52'r-1n,f / but that electoral college to which I am responsible as their chosen
( Jtrr. ,,,t i-vtl ., l,i Logen ballot J -? representative in the House of Federation lwill not reflectthe will of the ttli,t-Uvr!.>,rrltiLttx*.\L1)l'qrg)t/,ttLtyt
,gi=u.-ltheretore, to sayLVVaddress/Jissu eJr/(a44.,2?Provincial Assembly this is not without ,,t by show of hand.,rr Article 226 "/tlto€ "7 "1 (; r,t! s5, L now how to ensure transpare nry ,,1 ,; ! 11,zi/+,*r"nrtitydfirserious pitfalls and how also to ensure that the money bags don't change hands at.the same L1
t$v( J$)qA dt-i 1/-;-1 aadress{;rttgljiThtime so this also with an issue
Parl iamentary ?., q )rV { Ll d rl t, n <- ( L22nd Constitution Amendment Bill7V t-,lilt/ jf Cctt;J. t4t-+O,1;7;tE 1f u4-Committee on Electoral Reforms
-- r{V d! Caisqu a I if icat i on of m e m bers Lf ve 1l Article 63lA)
T11------6,1 Li T1 1-07AUG 2015---ASH FAQ/ED.ALTAF---12.40pM
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(l rdisqualltication of Mem bersy' l+ efArticle 6- AL ef- i J i ii ;i, dt tit:,Jt
t,;,,,f t r j t r,e-r/ ,,.t ail L I -€' L f ,-lyamember6std-to1rt,a-stt.r.(partyz-/declared in writing by the party head r, r,ag,ir -:u st ot 2,y t)r "/-, -, 7 i I Lr)l-,e,-+V. fl LoU-,t ltV66,\,aV Aot,? Lr,x JtJtrlf -!fArticle-63y i /?Ji 4 ?.6 (;,.t ii-Suiv"de-seatetial''$,t j.,!d ty' ,,17$,rviolation.?i,rdefe ction4)Vfl;tt7( 7€'tL.t x /t:ir/,Jt)-&'t -Lbxde-seat Mr. Chairman, this. is a very dangerous; the party heads should not be empowered, are already empowered, empowering them further, .they 39 Jo empowering them even beyond what has been done Mr. Chairman, that will spell disaster, that will impose on the House and the Members of the Parliament that dictatorship of the party bosses, i r i-ld p g { ( ; $ 4 x.,ut i v L major ity L la B tl v?. +! fSu re m e Court t/ t t i,t -u. t i t t7- o,4-,>vtf q( ; d 4x rt L o rt z 1t qu A rl,/ + --,, - ! a (,,r c- r{! 1, P the ./? t,' majority of the judgemenr tJr -'L'L ovrTt t(tj6a*iclest/y' " Parliament is competent to make any constitutional amendment and any amendment made by the Parliament cannot be brought into question. This is gn glz ).1 Y vl J6r -formulation !- Z ctpv| I e/formulation holds the ground L L,/,), Lr, minority judgements, minority -/7 jcb,v,,f l+ $ it o,* =V on fundament al 4 i 'l diil( -/rl ,tr.,minority $ -+iv,;1. Lt/majority;v;v issues this should be lifted to the conscious of the Member of the Parliament that conscious of the Member of the Parliament is the first line of defence to the first line of S(4ir1tr,.>rtJttgrlii-V-qot/tf gl."tnprotect the Constitution uphold L -- f { ct a. t r} r -tl L I uph ol d / v/. L- it h e d ef en ce of th e Const itution the first line of the defence according to the minority judgment is ,qtrlr,-it;lL/ your own conscious but no, under Article 53 which unfortunately Mr. Chairman, tlt-was passed L8th amendment leci and guided by you. Mr. Raza Rabbani sahib my conscious and the conscious of the Members of the Parliament ,?,.d,r, L on issues of principle involving Constitutional amendment is not to be considered first line of defence. The first line of defence is the party Chairman, i L,,l-/ a 6 .>vrt r v( et|' r Lo* ( ./ o', € - u! tt *l rt the pa rty Boss. a { =q d d isqua lification rr Article 63-A g ;n / ( ; d i t<,l' { rt,, L rt-i ( ; C i -i,r1 " vi 40 3r minority .f- lbupreme court -s1, / / i,i i / Jt,? / t 6 t ( ; d r g: 4,,r e- clause observation although it is that binding but it does indicate to us the ,Jjrdg"t -4-vd,)y;Vr1t,i( loxr{ g itli& should be conscious of this. =VParliament tlyl-'Jriyf -g-2',;t,gt,r1/(;( t(*inally, twould like to say Mr. Chairman i, jg, O t,F 6 / t,u I u-t r, u-t ct z-v 6, u confli ct of i nterest.,4 Z -n g' L " i Jg, 3 / ox r pa ry' busi ness Jr; r ir + Lt t L ( LF,l L,t. : t rtember v { ;, nsmber of rl iament The conflict of interest must also be kept in mind and Mr. Chairman, finally _x that the assets and liabilities that we declared every year must be made part of the tax returns so that the Federal Board of Revenue can always in just one ,-t ctUl z-rU:' -/ttsd s,f, comparative analysis say this is wrong or this is right. -, f v -i t 4 V -u -,t1,b Jl ; r ;:ti,l,t / 1 ., 2, 7 s, 2 sr 6(.,,t e- v$, / 4V there is a request from t,-c1,49"-rf q(rir=,b.,4)t,>,SE t,Sfr=u. Senator Swati that he would bc leaving for abroad tomorrow so, he wants to can you speak on Tuseday? r=,LjrrLispeak today. A-rtb b / T uesday vt r -U, it r rtt t' t,* tLon4)V/ )',r2i,6ft=q Senator Uuhamlad Azam Khan Swati: Yes, sir I will be here on Monday. Mr. Chairman: You will be here on Monday then we will keep it on Monday. Senator Muhammad Azam Khan Swati: O.K, sir. Mr. Chairman: Yes, Mushhahid Hussain Syed. Senator Mushahid Hussain Sayed 4l 3Z a tf r{t L -6 n -r.,P Os,,t c.- f ,J, t -, f u t,g ia *u : a da -i =u -i *. )f Urnry' Membertr Parliamentary Committee on Electoral Reforms C.Q+6t t) I am glade that -;g x $ q yqg t / 11./ rli 7 t z- t )utf = L,t t.r4? M NAs 05,.,! r/ t,'l the Senate itself is the principle stakeholder and it should take the lead on this direct ,{t quL,: ,6 gti tt Jissues, vt ,lt vf, r-q issue of reforms of the Senate. a L ri,U xVNq,examples,(rdirection elections!tr I * V -7& n c\J ).elelections with the provinces and the political parties and I agree with Senator .f line rlcountriesrrL,f Farhattullah Babar also said about the intricacies of this process. the Senate in those ,srr L* direct electionstSenateq+lQ lgxV!V: examples t-itigures t,l tcountries are millionaire's clubs, American Senate Mr. Chairman, Ol% of American Senators are Millionaires,.L[ so this is the e5 d =i,4 &,;ti g-r:: L-i !L/ a-ctrL vt!,G F e.y,{rV,A(Philippinevt 6Jv vt millionaire's club. t t I , : t t ti e1, i t,-z* d he ta ked of q e( million dollar sf ir o 7 !L{ L 4 -'E' -Q d -lE 24 y' Philippin e t I sl L00 Senators y'Am erica,q L :t 24 Members gp US dollars. LL ) el e ctions o p7 Lctt, q richr r n & %s J / /L dt t, ut Senato r s d- G + -t.{ { " - I ? .{rzu.>xthe whole Philippine is constituency for the Senate.-f/ t 6'yLtrLt,)t./ I12------Li------arepresentation;J1.4- character:l,7role$,7,,t,1iy' T12-07AUG2015 FURQ NIED.MOHSINI 12:50P.M. {t ,qcharacter dr ,<-role :!t ,e,t,7 ,/r' 4 5 r* r 1 -k!,llr € P / I think, in this Senate also there are a few people of -?representation eminence, even yourself, Leader of the House and so many others. Mushahid Ullah Khan sahib, famous labour leader, I don't think he has twenty, thirty crore 42 33 j:tgi tiav{6,4ilvr\u,hto contesr. I cannot do that, I am being a journalist. this should be .c.-direct eliction 7 g r* , 4/ ,.* | o' , 4 Zd LLower Houserrl .Sfounding fathe rsrz&onstitution a-,,h unacceptable under any circumstances, $ ,single transfer will be vote-/r u.2 L applied their minds, -,u 6,ltrp =i ethey but he is represented here because he represents a strand of ;i MPA'st:Ljl, Jt -,:topinion in Balochistan which is now represented in the Senate of Pakistan J,W f 4 ,q Zvi6i .h,,t ri,land this is a very good example of that.f spiritj dir ecl t ./ O x c{ cf; .- Lv,;n -'{igf independen ts t : L I J L..-,V 6" * u I ?t =,v jts*.,i ,? -!,nthat should be firmly and totally rejected.c-concepttrelection Richie Rich d 6,x,>tfhorse-tradingy!"4it will become again horse-trading.,d you will block of the Senate to people of eminence who can play a AGvlrrtrclub role in national poliiics, which the case is now with the Senate, doing under your leadership. let us be very ,y,,.( 1.*;--'-a,,I lsecret ballet!-'bt.L.tt?..>L(7:: blankballet 17,;igltclear, .. ri,e.v:c(tr!tlt-Lt,noption1-(l,c"ut,F, that will be very much against the spirit of etectoral democracy..L V6err0416 43 3q in countries like lndia, ltaly and Malaysia, there is room for ,/a ofinal gart Shabana Azmi was a member of Rajya Sabha, 4f-,i,f tj1 .-.rnominations also, Khushwant Singh was a .?nominated member /r ,,q7? ( gr(ginsrnin61s6, y',I he is a Rajya Tcricketer t c/member, Shyam Benegal was a member. people who are eminent, people "/7ry' ct(tntrJtrc6^"7tgil7sabha's member, intellectuals, journalists, ,?contribution 6tl'f 'Ctt;dt,r,who are scholars, artists he should i jil- tr lrgilimited scope of 4,5 6. 6clt Lx,=,v tE or dr,-* ',rolerf' ,rthave been a member of the Senate and he could have made a contribution they should be on roof of that;?conscience,74P,7)'i46$,:-h4lV*r with TroleJlt dr(st,a- 1,/ 4sut,+ p 4s ot d {,,1 3u, - -u.6 g d tcategory they should also have representation in aimpact 4i vr g ot ?. .,'tideas and issues the Senate and hopc that these rcforms which we are talking about of the discussion will be put on paper and submitted to the Parliamentary Committee on Electoral Reforms. So, that the Senate itself decides the way forward for the Senate of Pakistan in the 21't century. lnsha Allah. Thank you. -o,vl;af v-of ,6ie=h Senator Hasil Khan Eizenio constitution 619733 /t{,.f' ,; L zi 4 t&fr yU -r.f ,i;.,:)t; r.fb,/ ,/ between Tbalance Spopulation,n L[ 1 r t -/ A concept 1,J: ;f i A f/ r?constitute ,P t -r \cu * 7 cr eate / irl 0 I L vn./-i mbalan ced Er,r Pu nja b a n d other provi nces dtequally,6Lvvequally representl ut-r fi ct tttlO t(;5mainE,- Lurb2sigzlly,g-' direct ri 4,gg ag 6 ot vt!,,tt 4 1 ;u2 s1ir-/ {' L=,v zt it.>,) -l zg 6 c;tr 6 rightsL 3s 7i J q -/ A Li, cl ear,,f t 4I t 6 7 -4 d A ),,r,, 6 { s u L -i, : v L ; r, { i rif:' ele ction ,/ na,'.-1r;,^/a *cy'L,h-t d,j// electiona-r al "tiP --,*iiLvlt(4direct et o t.L a -,;v 4 ) tt i, tt / f + - / ! i qpass et c), {t { def ection clauseTr L f ./,1 4 :f! 1t Jtsfls{ *€./,.{ rJr, -Z/ avoP,A /,.t!,e,/:,v +r.,,Zd / zit*vlv Stii -ttiJ,Q-'l,powcr/Parliamentary l-caderr /Presi dentf tti jivlrrdictator x,f o,,t * v 1 ; / r y, j i 6 r 4 i,t :li,;t s,.{r,Jt / Ltf r r,J rl V, 4 6, uE :, - G Lv ; ,.8 {,,,- An,l Sut? t 1J,t+-f{ Lv6r,e },,/ --Lljrtdiscussio no*Et d * irt-Zc-., o g,,t a ul u! t|,t, -;,jv' 15 s i t J /, o r,1 L, ) u,sg( I u / r) ntt L,t,> I G ".L,a -a ?+ L( ug L;l L x ;f ! : tl have to fol low the r ules,g r ti-: ;tlreasury bench.l ",;g 1 -{ fi Senators or M PA's er g /-, d t $ dt E- t,.,,t ( /,r5 7,,,rf r vtr G cx 4 eE 4 clause ,i,i lTAt,vvl z-qJ Zz.political standardr,h.c6 A, i-i;) 6 tti 4* tJ,S 41t)/Pass (i 1,t Llopena-r t.,tt;it Z-:7 tf ( {secret ballet( l le -Jtr -t tOt il'.,: U y' 1 v r.d,,' q f i st,second, third vote i.7 g! .t,, dr L open /.-r -i -,,y' = * 41 sf, f ,tc-L:o;tl LitLG'lLrt/define2/ / {numbers,;)r=i,6 {.2--,gffourth vote !H-4direction eleclionsc--t,/a4;1.?Of .--r.{(t)vilt--tux€ 6-AL_:t:t{s1rta Dracon ian Law c-t t7 +Dracon ian Law y i,f, A -$ L -,b /.Li i ) 4 - $ 7 O r.ltLV " t,Ll;yfita-r,LQ{de-seat<-t?.r-0t3.>,,7 V iu Lj,t tlt,,r c-vta*erJl 1./,1-tJti -LV 45 36 -av d - a 4 t .,, i +b 1Q,+V,l L f rc,./ i v L:-, -b' e Jn t, n i)u,v if I am from Balochistan, I must be elected from Balochistan,L$Lit/-At( have no right to be elected from Punjab, if I am from Punjab, I have no right no right to get elected from Sindh, if I am from Sindh, I have no right to get elected c/l"yu?uC*/tJ?tLutJ,z.l'lr-4r/.,Sgty'{ot7-,c)t/Vliu(from Balochistan. ttr tf-' t9 i€ | un u ./ vx qlevel Jt tg tvt 69 V,Jr J r, Ui Lu,/ I u#' O\r f I /check and balance J/ Nt / +t f -{ *r* -t -a o / V, a I i |t,t o,' r 6 discussion -/, tT]36'VLit T13-07AUG2015. Tariq/Zafar Ed. 01.00 pm. t jt;r t,Jr t ; L I o t i i.ttc,f v ,1 6 v I A Lt, / rf fit r 1 /,j :/ -----(6,V) ------l,k y' qt c- o & .{ : 6t,.>,, $ decision ir t , 9i d ;r t n, tv * el f ./ r.>r -r -c.- / " i | 7 ef /ev -zL.,r,{check and balanceJ/ ptr,/ 6, Jv or;' 6.y',\l t 14 J( dt lt 1C r' Lr I I t" , t / a gr r?,4 J 2 {. / oe. *,s rf LJ. i?, l, r.t,l +',1 *, -1 -i -sg =i -r $ -u if you can answer it now, answer it now, otherwise, this is on-going debate, you ,y' tx layJb't/whal will you do,i,4tq$irect vote-/rcan get back to me L/ resulto/J / i/ -t Assembly -(Li I "retlection(result!National r,u v <-4r politica I system ./t{ L -S Li O/,.fu I o * € ut i ;.tfi s )F f =h, '.f J f -i ?* L/e,-7, politic al trendir! urr L4 --.,a& i,ult-aVcd 4r,7-tii .$,1o rj!' $ r,,, tJ i, ut'F t, t;,F t E, 11 y L i,y b .,,l t l i,y b ttdyyvl l- / tctt ,.f-rc14t6,-adui.,gb,l /:frDistrict council?Lntfril,.lpracticallv andlatrend-r.'glz--,,h./L,,)tro, : majority party-r,,t?;dsf',f l4t,tr,f,E,gya elected.q Jtt {,rrelectable? Frr i efr,agree with you result National ?. -/ -q c-, Tsupport 6' { ,>t Jl f v ,,lr& 7i *v =U -J c v a .* u u{, / teac6 i,t b z-i et Assembly " {,1 -,, -',i avf ut-[lV,l i +t-21iv ivL,g,.?sir I agree with youi )..s6tyb/)l -..7,$corrupliondrt-]/ rL6direct election i,C --option.{tVJtl6A.,6clrt€rl/ -ctrt.,1 ,>t6direct election ,it-Afiscal powerr,f, nta-opiniont7 ,O4/I e{ t!( 4nd I will give you the studies on thatgtl>t ,t dt -- -i,.t li?-, #, qtt grr / r, tr - fiscal poweryt L{ouses,:)t, l LFederationstjg.,-vgJ-rty'elections indirect r+percentage of Membership{ d dNational Assembly orr Jti,.* L1 How do you justify then they having the financial powers?..7i[-election Ladies and minorities seats.:i;.dG..f v7fr Mr. Chairman:Yes, that is also indircct I have to Tpolitical stand !(r t,h -/ ? i,,l 4 6 s.l' -u,i ;- rto f, v,z,E o{ / Udri.,.tf-q- &cfnolitical partiesf J.ttt.,iuL) c- e( )1.-7 -/ oL6/t'saY -. " g t Li * q6 p artv disciplinei : I Li i q 1' f J i + 6,, o { l rt I 1t (, u'! Li encour age +,'y 4?,1 ,3lqlurur,tt6 L/ '>LLt/ ot6:,,tvrt L-/l4lleadershiP:,cE v : 29un ;r, { o s,i dt gi, a x .9 1 .{t 4t k tl g ol -a 7 c- fu -U 4 u /,.t -v+ -,r -a e\6).icU,;,./,,qr.r tc-tic--vi/.{r.-,liz;vt,tia-dva}*,a1v,,1'or'.ta,+-,,)rl J, gt,.)! ./ rt I ;",r> -i r. r,{,y' Z, J :. i { u-, ), 1,, +,1, L I J L Ll, r + O I L,E { =,v 4 ! t 47 38 ,lt-y' )v{electionri,/' 7,r j-vyi-Cl')td,,t ldLgir,tt+t/xelection expensive ,i endsr!r;,15,g.i )9(electiontl 4; etline 1-,,,rtat -t-ff -l* 'J/ -t--ct fiq f y' g',., 4. r tl a t /,> t) / U,t q Z p er son ally / z-r f , tt ;ti L x elect*i 7 - J' =i, -i -i / tt t t) j O t l t d l gJr -/l am not an expert -Q a i,,r dr tl S,.t! c-.,t ;rr -q trend lEi i d tU" zt -,i /?my request to you and Raja Sahib ,r),7 /conclusion , .>s. t,, q t,A Lq, ty' bV,,r L ql 4r / 1, a C9 t ;1) t/v ! .y',, t /,./ c-t f J i v experts Leader of tne ,5 q u "f 7, i,,if s .4 ! -, Z V t -i (, d expertise ;t! ot 6,u,.9 1 - r.t,./v experts,,! t t i v z-t- i,rrLeader of the Opposit ion, i v Lu, ?aHouse gt vn.ifr,u tS: t,1-yi.-;) 6c* -./4: {Reforms Committeey' t1, 19* SA 2,7.,.f, Thank you very much.-16 ! .y',.,g) grq e-tc- ----(T- 141------6,V ------y>v.t r : d ? -af =U T14-07Aug2015 Rafaqat Waheed/Ed: Mohsin Zaidi 01:10 noon ,>t ( t t t:t g( z-- r rQA c- )A 7 tr a 6 .>t t L *f b cf t au et, , d fi -,v -f =V ri $vi ;t gr rl' / j+i uCComm ittee of the 1111 6s12e-t l t,g xy, / l / J,! 4 6 vt,,t LU-j we will be in a position to call him, get his point ot ,Lqgutl/expertd- vl16n" 1 v ; : ji,l,,t 41'-6? r*. ; L 4 fi t 1J G, -i ! Lvfl LV view in f ront of everybody. provision clr.e- JCommittee of the Whole,,r t*c-h,8*ry' e !,6nop"n hearinge) grr V,5 -Lrf u --t, L,.tVu\ a l,1 r-convenienceLf ,Jr -Ltt x,/ r,t $,$ x v. ;t \)rL) =i t4-opinion Senator Raja Muhammad Zafar-ul-Haq y thinking{,z- U/,1 Laase t/ it.- 1 /,.f -Q tt,< 1 1s6t gt r j,/ i,t, p =u, ev en -{t{ L ri 4 { l, -S n u! n r r ow,7own 2 u,,, tu*,A ff t a{ t/ 1ir x i ctk,Vr 48 31 in the Nation'al Assembly, there are members sitting there, under the 1t -$ x ,ti $ i.,,<* fd yrC665111ution who were not elected, they were nominated. q * 1i rl,tzLv--.,u0, gt gx{-/; political experience',1; tE ?.7Jtt./ ey'.Q,-6 tll I Co m m ittee of the ! u t v / j6'.- t,-F a r ./..{, A, nt,At t -o tl I { A =i,-t -? +r { $.- rfr t Lt -f q -d,qgtl,v,*,i i tI O,y, ; A,,,'t Lt ut / o r')z,lrwhole House -LV Lt h iti i- 1 sewices $ r) { } 1r / + rv z,r 1, +? d' 1f t Co m m ittee o1 16 s Lt ( 11 7 tu) tj t i -,L.r, 1 a. /,)tfi 4>t in di! t : cii ii,-,U motioniifl/,tt/ r./(gti direct{ q)*,.t Ai.-':).tJ JLittJitr/r-g,1 J4 $Whole -Li.:.:.,6, vt tlow Lur t lt,l: i t ls the House in agreement? Right. Since the House is in agreement, the Secretariat is directed to bring a motion on Monday, which is Private Members' Day as Senate Business for the creation of the Committee of the Whole under the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Senate, 2012 to discuss the mode of elections of the Senate. Let the motion be in the name of the honourable Leader of the House. The House stands adjourned to meet again on Monday, the 10th of August, 2015 at 3:30 pm. [The House wos then adjourned to meel ogoin on Mondoy, the 10th August, 20L5 ot i:io pm. 49 Qo ,/tlne t -'8" SENATE SECRETARIAT (Reporting Cell) WC-O1-11Nov2015 03:00 p.m. Taj ELAMAqAD-- A meeting of the Committee of the Whole, constituted on a motion by the Leader of the t.louse to consider "mode of elections of Members of Senate, pros and cons of single transferable voting system, alternates, poll reforms etc." was held on L1th Novemher, 2015 at 03:00 p.m. in the Senate Hall, Parliament House, lslamabad. Mian Raza Rabbani, Chairman Senate presided over the meeting. The agenda before the Committee was as under:- i) Review of existing mechanism for elections to the Senate of Pakistan and proposals for rnaking it more transparent. li) Decision as to specialists, if any, to be invited. iii) Any other item with permission cf the Chair. The meeting was started with the recitation frcm the Holy Quran by Senator Molana Abdul Ghafoor Haideri, Deputy Chairman, Senate. I f.a - F5.>)lt I 4l p,,r-.. Ot JI-f+ : g+->--+* + Li-+ "-r-r;i-l Committee ,-.,r-t &J *+ -r-- i dlj 9J d+JlJ I pl " : o-.1,-.. cJ-++ eiJ ea P-I- +5 r/ I J r,-.+ J of the whole o., I H J .f ,.r-)-., J ., I ? orl ,r-La-"-S --. -+J "--: "-S ,r+* 9+ L-5 a"i!S+J l lf L--.--.? J o+-L, -J o!L" L-< alr p Utt 4 --,5 u-, S LJ ,-i+b o J9-.>9-, cJ I :i. -+ JLs JLJ L -.j g-j3.S JFJ .\-,,., -ir L+ -j+ .,5 .-L{{+--, j3-l "j+..,;1, -j+ L-?) J..lL- r-)1" J working paper Senate Secretariat J I t u+- ut T I --l-"-L,, J -.r ,r-1-., -,r-ll -+ L...5 s-{-i L1-1-g-r r-5 rrl J -rs lLy + L* -" < 11",r ..,liji--r lj+ l-t ! ..1 L,-! uy rJq. =+ oaa --,-o -+S) -i--t L-,r Vi ; LJ LJ ir .-1 bicameral legislation | -J t-.b "-14* ,rj+ )ll U-llS i 3 "y-x--o --Hr :r+ -JI J U-: u-f--f --jJ i prOpOSalS J * \'# ) L-5 "-i+Jl" >S+: J L+j: r-, u+j Lj+ T g*- . jLii 5 il-l-r -3--.:. V Lt{}J J J+ -,' @l --t-oL,a I LJ I p- .{.-, -) cp ,-+-+ }5 I r or>J ri-.r iJ 1 in "-5 r. li3 Ll",il U g+l "r+-+ e) O* ^-S 9 -F.l - ,r+ .l U-',_l )tl 1 Qt i 5 J ,r-r,ar-i.t--r Lo+ e-a-l-, FIL "+ "--f ,.:J =+ al ^+ L" a-.^L-i t L+-J ,xiSUSe I li i I -ei -S o^, L+J }-5 F 0, _.++ ,Jl+J )+ I L5 .t-:_r- Ljj+ qJ t+ Zlli .sj, J t-'r-r r "S -l cL+ ul :9-- .;--$--- H J L+j-i+ _r;Stage ,.r+, * ,tt J r--, ,r, u.*+--: forces I 6p f.r l--l , J) j )-S or r4'r--r 95 -- oL+ (J,l -.# o9 e-p.'j pL; ,'L.g: L+.t-l-- ..r-{-i lrij L--iJ.,,, L-5 i+-i-- Ll-J Lj --J JL-S "--tr_* e? u,i.l+jr J J ---, .9-l o'J a'L-? Li-+.e-ar.r - n-,,r-.1 I J-.-r L-ir o ^+ J{+ J U J'--? ^-{ Gl-., g.1ni 3 .L, L-l i+-" ,d: s-JJ L-,.9' j -r-,,, -9-7 LF1-3---l J ji J--, L,. .-.r I p L-s J ft|--1- J t<-J --g+ of L-l .---,, I cpl .r-# 03 .5:rf'.,i - ;-!JJ r+ L) o o U L5 I ^,! c;"r...o rrlf, -- J ^-a-:!" 3> |/i.S+J I lf J S3Jdirect J ji --L-o l. - :lr i r)- p, J o.H 3-,./ -,,t y-b) .-rS-j Lj+-, --j+ ,-+-5 elect 9J j -l*+*+. 4r &)5 -l er J t--r-i D6 - LJ9+ u+1j JL-5 ,--:--.* J Lu ;J-S oJ jqr _e-5 -) 5 ,--t-->b ot )-3' Fi 9-.l l+l J L-Sr+ 6-+-t- J L-t Lj.+ basic concept 3J ,fi -- 6y \r4; I c+ ++i -r: +g y+ elect qt g+ L4-,, Lai vtt -1 ;1 SS u-+-o --? 9-, Ot- s.,.r F representation Federation o ! cJ---, s.-r---o representation Federation J-J -,3 LJ t l-- H c,n -; ^-i--2-.!b o, -9-5 oul u+- ..jjl L-5 I J-i.,i+j p c,n .Ja-, z_p - I J*+-.q-f "-I-+"- -il-j Li> p - i echo!r-r-, o r L:j LJ3'1 u.+i.-c .-1'5 -r-:-* -* -p "r+f I I ..-|-4-l 0-!j l+-.ci J J . .,;.-+-i 5.-t I o-y J-+--".- | Ljj+-] I l.+ H o L++ representation J .r-1---., (1.1; ;I .,;*-1 J+-j J representatiOn ,rl (J'++ L,.+--IJ,-q ,r-"r L+- (J-r-*+ +l-+: -Jr+ "-5 I 41J echo 1u c* S--r-t o , J J -s.- g--l c14-.,-., 6y Federation - 95 ,-rl-+-- t !;+_, LJ I 'a ,-.S ,-r+ .,-5 giS+_i J L-- .]J t-b * )r J "-: ;L+ s+*.+j /_l !r? Hl lr e-I d.: I Fil l-? | fUnding .r*ia C+U oq . the question Lj-+ t-+ constituency of c-' -3 -! r.5 o_H-p J -e-f-J-J funding and fighting that election will be there. These were my views. l, in the existing system, do not support corruption in the present system. I j+J"J S--r I +y &+ J .;q-r abhorred, I am absolutely against lt. 1Jr jyl -s S-hi.t --a j.J existing system I ) 3y -:-+S j+ -4 -.4 t+ t-'-t-+ Fj:-.- Fl J -; Lj-i.r j4 p .,jql -j-. L- J Vi u+- oJ l--t LJ -ji s-i3 U ilr L:j -u -231 ,J g*{ -l J +> L-- Jf* a cFJ, -o.-' LJ gs{S )jy *ia L.S j+ D L- o+i L+ "-: - u r*-(-.r t+, j 4 J Vi ..i# up and now the House is L.si Lrt o L; Li I <-1 j.o L,a J \f i L,-a-, they are most , .r++ t-a LjJ-J u+j L+ 3,2 opened for discussion welcOme. ..'tr L- -r-+ L+ Lf .:i ! r-Ll+ .r uu : +-+ L+ "61 ;u-! -.:+i+"r --t ".+--a ;il ^+-l.Si H --+ lir -a @t )i ).1" ;9-l 9.+-.1 J o+--, L+ J+ jr-7 :r-!3 I LjJ-r .1+ I Lj-{ 6,r J --r, c+ ,^-1 "-i+Jl, J o*-t +i.,.r l*i-t; , <). ,5, t4 ;-iL" r o# .r LJ L*-ij I J f.+j-!- ^-,r-5.;ll oJ | ,-l c1 Ljl+ il i -r_)l-+- J --1 r-l "+r S+l J r," L-iJl 3 5JJ .,.++ uL:-u. tjtt -- r?J J d^r.+..r 3F+-4 JJI ..r-.r lr*<.' Li,-.0 ,,+-- 226 JS+-:..r i --5 i-,---rT ,St --J Jl3 , -44 <,n orl t-- jV L:J..;J Open VOte 3J 0.r I LA ..s l .,;r-5 e-,-.o.,! l ---r -1.1 o4.o u,, J JqI LJ,.ait., J ..,J.:,L+ -J yi r+ _r++ L-5 lll J ,4 J)'o ...;+l-,.,i 3l rrX-S ,+ u+, ^.-.., J C* r-2 .F .-r{JJ" .5-l | }j LJ | c- eru 9), reflecti0n "-t+-..- uu ^j J; gu-lp Lf.+.-, J)S r+- )i L'+--r 226 J --l Lil,,., 3'4 o!r J However, Mr. Chairman, lalso think ---'4 L+-sJ open ballot ri-+ >+ ut -. o_9-.r; L1n; Lry .;-b,j 6 -ya--a Sil t) -p Lyy o'.1-.-o u,ir-yr .< tl ,J cl-:>S ) 3-s -?i :r+ J-SI oJ ---? L+-5 etJ Jll g-f J e_J l-.rI .rj-? | s4 1 oJ u+J l+ +i JFJ experts {+-S 'rl-3 former diplomat o3 L+i I 14 r},4t ) lJ-+-a d -S 0+ o+--, ul . L.1J p L-5 related matters Or --.? ..;;election I o.#t )tt L151 He is also the commentator in the newspapers e+ .i J L: I .;.^I F t-l LJ )l s- J cl Ln Lrij-j I J L+it- JS- ,- -) o-* t of Asif Aizdi L+? | overall -J L4J FU u<--t s, )t s. J election "Sl+ -, I think if the Committee thinks it appropriate you may consider inviting him @J--'+ J 3.,r r-5 e-:+.+- ..i+ L- zF ! r to seek his point of view also. eLJ ++ issues 3J -j o6ijl -,,r ) 9 Li+ :-L-a L,t s" .1.> I (J.H L+-5 pLS )< s- -t U-r+-.r J L--j Li -j o.+il 3'i d+l . L-ri L+-5 .-p L-.a l-:5 Li Li J.-! ,JJ L-,o; c.f.f . | i .tr -,r L.+---, J-S> :^+ -f,-r* { trq o|.Pl -J-*. .<--l -. tyl r-l-+ r-.^+--aj Lr-1.l qr+ | l-tS- uS giS | "+i !.;r9 J I L+j L+-5 eL.s ,-++ >+ -*-i -- o-u+-r .)-9 eLi -, J -+ ,,s: z-r i? 9+j .-.l-+ I F .? op lwould suggest --+ L+J dimensions .,-H Jr! J c,,r butlthink --l+ .,s e+-l: o-1-,l 226 So I would suggest these two names to be invited for giving their views. ,.r-+--t Thank you. Mr. Chairman: I think if the Committee agrees let us go solving issues 0--r J )-+-).--o expert 9'J crl l--J J )91 r,-..LJ "j J-sI )tl +J lr -IJ I .r# .1lJ u! -s- L,9{ 1-r.,i J \.ii}l-a- L+ or+ gr+r .r: --. I-: L+-J X+ ,-t+- u,a+ Leader of the House. .r Li> : (0lFJl l.-l Li) I r-i.b f ^;-,15-i, &L-l ^;lJ -1-,.4r-1."l oq jyl j>5 9SiiJ .r-,r-r-.l;l .ri+ I j -., T !,-i+--Jl-+" I o.,1 L^++ ..s -# .^+-+ ..r-:j+ J ,r, ca '-|J Li'l .i* .3 .s-,1 "- a4 a:4 -' . .-t++ ,ri.Jf+ WC03-11November2015 Mazhar !u-s-;.-* . \-il i -,I *+ ^;..1&;: &L-lI ^+tr -r-.+-i+- o;Lil .rJl" J u-r Lol--' uu" LFy + Li yl >-) u r-+$ ,- u: L: &-pl e* ,y+ t:+:t t ,-S c,rJr-.t a- L+ o+- r*; -iiJ- S+l )4a p -:+ UsS c-r-U ut L3t --l L-5 i J Li-, j+ t+ ,tti t>S "-ib oJ (.p, d) p, +-5'J ++ ,jL.A-, C: Li-9;eQUal r+ ,.r-t -" + L+-i+ )-l )* : ^-l -1 l< I i "C T o +5+J s# g -).) 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Flac lJ'JjJ ,s++ )tt ^+ .".',,-r it oJ L-S -r-S *-iiS+i< ,'t -r-g u L-+ J g++ -.:l-,,r ,*'.5 3.+j-+-- -I.,;II^r' ; L--" J F2 -H--1 Lj-S,-,a r+ -,,, &-1-i-1-,a I I r ,,,- r-ar+ I )t --J .,jl-lJ-S -,1-1,,.,--, 4 --l .jl,U-S J alli..-' I >J s-1 .djJ--, L1-1.-.o u-951-1'-l...l I ;L+Jr J t+ u-u !-*j., L4-> i J 0l <), $rr L-5 rp .,y --)y Ol-!J Lr+-il,-r u+fi , 1 -+-J ul . u"-t--i -j*S.-,) J.Lil ; :.f-i+- Vi u*4 J.L. "l ++-5 tr I single member constituencies J <). \sp- j-;3,aj 6 L.t---o ur+ &rr ,ss t4 J o+j + J reserve J+ .r L+j-+ ul o#+- i ', I I i i L-r+, t--; s.5' ^j ,r-5 orl -'n *-,.r u-/, z-j1 -n-" f-S .,J.,1 - a$i- ea - +' L" J+l '1 o ,r+ - ^+-t-S-'i : u+-.o ri-++ -r Lt-> 1?. 5L Senator Mushahid Hussain Syed: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think this is a very positive imar.ative that you have taken. Since I am also a member of the Parliamentary Committee on Electoral Reforms, lfeel that thls is already being discussed there at different levels, both the committee level and the sub-committee levcls. So, lam glade that the Senate itself which is responsible for this issue is discussing it. lwill endorse 3., -(! I . Lli ,stti ,.t.-+-+ c":+++ y;su 0+i-l .: what you have said initially that I also oppose to direct elections to the J ll Li J I L5 I ..,.." s- ) ,. | --^-}.^+- -l--] H-J Senate "l+...- andtheSenateisthe Houseofthe Federation ithasadistinct --+ 1t .:-f identity otherwise the same problems that are faced by the National Assembly will be secn and the Senate will become a clone, a replica of the qL" Li.+ r 6u.i l--i--,oe s .r-5 :;; e-;l-- tp National Assembly. J l+i-l-, u4r ,J thirdworld J--,r -1rr J +y* .S-:r o-9-1. --l JJr L-5 l.+i u.-r---! working paper J JI- u-+-J direct elections USA is a very LJ j'.,! r-i L-5 I --i ,.,.+1j J-5f . uJ+J ^S-+J.-, 0r , c), orl:t powerful r,H .r}.I'i*- jJr developed democracy 70o/o of the Senators are millionaires. lt is - -+ tenure L5 J L., a3 L5 r5-r 5 .t _, r s 3-=r Li,.,; Lj + ;r l-.ij u-+--, actually a rich men'S Club. last time one of my friends contested | L-l ii-,,rr .> _: 9 -4 E u r .r++ ,'+-+j O"t'J!t L-s *.+i.-y *i J the Senate, I asked him this time L-rS-!l J -r+-i-+--- "!-l .rl++- J L{ --, o,t C-3-aS I | for the election in -,c-i -3-..) ;r.- : ,_i+l- J J z_H -+-J J u"J-! /-^-i i 0, I ):t ..r-H -J -H J;'*-1-i-4- u"-!+ J+ ;,.lJI Philippine. L-+g - 5 million dollars t a+-J u+-.r j--l c-, J oy1 "-.-.6: ,, ^g cq-r.-. so you can see that it is a --l Lj eqnationwide --r Lj _e-, direct election very costly exercise and it will be transforrning the Senate into a rich men's <*!+? point is well taken t-Jsingle transferable vote L5 vi ) j I club representation *i-,-S u+., o _l L+ c', i we have J u-++l+ r ., i J 5.'# J -r> L-.a Jlj-+- -i-ij I we have Senator Jamaldini €1 Main issue in Pakistan is become the credibility of the - +++ a_ "r-ij L-aj somebody J L? L- p j :D L" j y)--.: .<-i I --++ Senate election. u+, --+J q-p .r 9 I o I r.i'-- e--r--a J boasted openly to him and that gentlemen had three members-j of his family in the Senate. Himself it J ,-*+ Jt r L+ i-l- trl ,J-+r -i+j J J-J and histwosons. is not an election, it is an auction. So, lthink that is the core issue which is concerning the Senate as far as I am concerned in the eyes of the people of 13 .f 3 d.il-+l r L-J &+j{,.- .t->. F)- J Pakistan, in the eyes of public opinion in certain cases it becomes an auction that the highest bidder with the e4 biggest kind of money wins and that needs to be worked out. I think there should be a mechanism for that perhaps you can after this deliberation you can consider with the consent of the Members of the Senate whether we can have some sort of discussion or Task Force or a small committee on that. senate is the House of the R ^+ J My final point would be Federation. Federation of Pakistan is inclusive of areas like FATA, Gilgit -+ o!*-l J ,i+j,I ,JJ-ijL-j-j L-jL- Baltistan and Azad Kashmir but I would say that pending solution"-J of the Kashmir question, there should be some mechanism also for the resolution of Gilgit Baltistan and the issue I pU J L"+ ,r+ .r-r .;ri-S t ii .s-f-+." r.r+-.r I al-14-.; Of FATA. .-'S sH 1 r.r Li -'tJ*t LJ u-lrl-,r+jr ',1r I di ,r1) H o l-i ,r+.1 they are also very keen to play a role. So I think there should be some mechanism. May be we can have provision of observer, senators or honorary senators from these two places who can be non-voting members of the Senate and we can say there is proviso till the solution of the Kashmir dispute because the important areas of Pakistan which currently constitutes Pakistan Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir are denied representation at any ele,-toral level in the Federation of Pakistan and especially in the Senate. So, I think that can also be considered. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. w@G1INOV--ASHFAQ d i--rJi U+U I a-J.,o ;1. -:e 1," * Lj+ | 6j--t-s-t {i-t{-J | 3),,a (t) JJj+ }uii l'i i-l -pi1-\,.r orl Li-*+^. g,1-r LJ .-.lT !,.1-a.-.1,.i++ i.l .s>+--, J u++ - ^-;-.fj oj Lj oj Lj g+- ,-C !+-J ---? Hl c,n -,n -j-- L- J .i-+ij (,.ll rr+J u, I F-4to l; Lo+ -lg I oy4 |:I >S :F a.,.r plOC€SS orl L+f - Jl Lf- g"+--i J u+- 'Ljj-+ c,r+ H o UF+-,! -+ --r-5J i;+ z--p )tl u-+j .5 i'\-r | .l--, lObby J g,t . Lrj I l-, | )4) ,-r1 JJ-il J J L-? oJ ,4i briefcases indiscrete -* )-ot-,,t .Li-SJ L-? o , -b L.;->--a Change L+ J lJ .1"4 9 -"6) .* e#ar. ) -;S Li---., drivers t briefcase-.;J ;S --+: -4: ..1 s -{j--j.{ J Lt 6+- tr L++ - -+ L+-3 l; briefcase o+: ., j L-5 J uX-i ,ti L-5 u)t-! -i I ( .-3t L+ . u+l+ L+ .,.. r+ o+----, independent J --r, L+J I .,;l.+ , r:j L>l | .l i,-(j J ;ry "ll --{+--, r.:.-.r-: e4z)13 -r L4 ( D j leader i; . I : I . Jr ti ;-,1 ^ u1# pij L|+:-, -), ,-r+r- JJ> .:rJ J .,r Lr -,i J qJ W, )jl --^J ) -j L-+{ .-+l+J f-+ LJ -j.--.r: aS.j ,-a-z r-) l.,1 Lo+ r- F-l .cHqp L+l-:r q-+l_lT s# pl-s "+ J "=-l -- s ;+t (J-{.-? ^+ eJ H ,-)- .:L+ t-; --) I .+ J rr:-F ""+r- J c.r++ --rlJ J "-l J O+fS ,r+j+ Vl -J ut+ r 1*jrJ uJJ ..,;..Jl ;.r.l l o3 J # u:Li €J H ^-s L-# tlr ;i 3 j'- J ,r-.t L-? rr L+ z--l-+- -"'* F ot F-t JLi tr-:: .--++ ..,I . u-+-+ --iJ J +; J+-S J L-.or-i.-, I t.5 c,r-a--l .u-Jr .r-of +J Vi )lt u--:.1'-S rl+l.l j senior leaderS-,2 I J ,r--l L+ .,;rJ-++--? cp - Ue-, U+t J--? FLc .r a9 I .< L+ Lir J L.o.,ir ,*t --S u.') +jJ-+-+-i c.+- O-ir(! ll J u djl*+l :r? -*-- 9 members.;, u^+ u-l- F) tJb Ls J-->)-,,' s-il)r ,r+ F, -J-g i J1I -4j1 J .r--l'-* JJ-1.1+ J-- ' :i result I u*5 .r11,i ^+ -.., ;lj+l J u, o+-. ) -,rleader urt -J .r+ L4j Le+ ring3S ,,, t LP . o-H qJ L-i-, J r+ -s .;5 -) ^,a-3 quote 35 .JT Lt+- ,i-), ,?, ) J,-? meeting J d+l GT q -i+-S(gr+ Ljl.-, cp1-1 ntS Sl *--ri ^-i J u++J J -t' 4+ ,r-.-l 15+ J LtJ .l+- r-j -+: tl# 3JJ a) tl.W -- LJ rlst -- o+ ---1 0+J .(+l J c,g+J Q u-y J -1l-? Ot-I [J 5 -d--, i L+ rC: I J.: 393 ---t u* -S .-..:+ J" ,r 3j L-5 | (1-1'-.o . L{--, I "lj J-+J L-5 oe-tq FLj 0., l.r o Lj ;-11-b MPAe- g-+l-J + -j-a-J sLj J u#lhonourable jf+-++ i -cil .rr L+ ,ld : -:) 39J -) r).W -# :,->L- ol u+ L# -e r)- --{'-, -+) (,,+-1- --o: $ :!j'l J .,jl o+ L-^++ 9-5 oj-'-o .r-ri + .rj-? I e-; J-+ t1u5 -!r .iJ'' t) ''-H NA-122 ^-l - Lj jr--;' .;Hj --+J J --a-++;members .c4 q 9J ;- H , o+-, J- --l-g: oH)t J -., aLr L,) j-r-a-ij T.V channel d -;:3 s-L;r ,< ^5 ,-,3.-, s.: ) it 3 lt L-: uJJ l--1# r . e+r motorcycles .-il €"r++ -jJ -iij Lj-H Ar++ L|+--, u-HJ I c-t L,,r-> o-9 . -3) --^+) -il; ++ o"S-!l-'i - L+J t?r ti i 9-5 e-)..,,o .-) p, J uHlj-{+--l... try lVlia J-!j--?J JtJ 7-1L,as.-t LiiJ n,t(+ll -i-t oL+r y t3 i4 1 pU )-+ L-? .$ ;.r+: -r-,-+L+- L,# - L3 -j+ J+ Js'i''-'0 I I Lj.F agree ) J I -j L+ j: .1.J open 95 o, J oY H ..r tj-i-l I L-5. p]^cl -ptt r -r: -jL? g;J ..;rJ amendment yi Ljl-.r E o$l J ,r-. ) t---.r . LiS',.: 9; o+r- .l g+J ,-t- =-l moral pi'essure j I J ++ g'+.-! - L.6j L+-3 d+ u..rJ i oX-i J-+ Lj+ sJ +- . U+-S J+ eLt -)t t-' LJJ"f J,S,i,-, Lj Lj-? COnstituenCy 6-,1 c+ ^S o tl Lj-t .i.a' Lj3q Li jJ l millionaire ,r-1-2 -.1 3r -s- o*j d"ill-|J ;eS -S ,its,-o . -; pr€sent system single transferable vote J.. 1 J ++4 j+ rJ: l--,a rl< rll J-r J :- J -j+ open sS oul - L+.r irr 9q <), J-( ,-1..S t $S ; Ja t--r+ ^+ JLi - n;,r-Sj L5 ..r t ! i.+-- ti-++ &b p - -?.,1'(,i L.5 .,T : o+-,.,1r-.r-1; 9Lj.; -.r> L,a o-:-iji+ - 4..;lS; L-5 vI I: uir : i-i-rjq OLj J- L- Ji+-j i-t-i+-,, J olt t | q-ij ,-ij+.r-|+> J-5 o y)t t 0 Lj-,^?J'-L+ H !.rl* cr+j-1-3 JJ ..;r-1 ) tb ,sr t-!.+ --f "+++j t;i+ r^++ L5 cpt a* L+t L.+ constitution 5 L97J .-..> J L# cr_l- Zt >i _- Ci c,'J +',t ,.^t-tu rtt )tt L+-< L-J +-i I Jlp L-s nationality Jj ldi ocr -H u L++ a) u+ t+:.r+ LJ role National Awami Party tj; ':.+-L.},.J o.+,constitution-^ )r F> J o,t _ LJ raise +S Jt g- urt federation I I discuss d" )t r- J J r_r ^_;finally )tt J-J federating unit or I J-s oHr-.b oJJ+ F_.t. -j+ lri j 3J .-.1 t.rl L1.-1..o --++q ,r.- e_? ,,J.U tt "-_t J dt . o++__.-# national Unit imbalance o9 r.r(: .l-(ir.-,0 , u-+--; fiscal powers r-5 --.-l,-r+.- -(-; -,? Vi J ua.--rl : f lr-^.., uJ!. _ LJ r+ ..-l-j e; rmbalance o! c) J c.r+.> y,.>L-o U jLn J !+ Li-: e-r J.t-1.> e._ _{+ J -). F)- 6yJ jt) .L-5 partial I J -+ 4,s.,--r,---o r-, rrJ t *-r- .3l-5 0, o-|,-, ..,5 urt Jl-- , j+ .,-y direct election i5t-s jJ i'+j-+- H cr-y g,l | - J-J provincial base proportional representation,.e--, ^+i o-( .J+,r-H t+.:_lr -jlf 11.++ {C ;95 J -+ Ul-, g4 ,,s1r . tr+! seJ 3--r.:-,a .,l3 t trueJ pOlitical parties J,', t-5 J 3.1j.a- --r c,.rl J tts-r, Lj*a:--a-,,r c,+--.0 -J u+-j+ i Ji 6ol ) t I uS -t -l-l .r-a+ ;.+i-- .,-5 -.+-i+.- , .3 -" j.-l s{--l Value | .1> L-o Lj . L-5 p J-5 0,, .S*-1'-> e -.^+-: r-f lLS "J--* .H L+J total r-5 ort .)-!-" -jl J 6;r-1.-o , -p<),) .,;iJ L-r l i Lr .l i s)H )9jl-nJ -+ j y#-? J ,=-) .+ cL+ .s-,r-r.> !+Lia -=j+ -^++ -l+ o Lr-: =-1 L) 9.-:, s:_l^s .'H #-lr -r-1-.r--1.,^, JJI €), -H uq3 e- t>+-.i jL" ,.r-1l" ,J 1973 H ; .-{ rrl-.l .,J . L-J i r.la-j L-5 jJ-S .,# + J ort U-l-1--, ^-.l--, L^l --+-i rll ,JX- L) _9-4-, ,-j c,-+--; cJ.H (.1"il11J I -+-J J e->t a3 l+ i , loopholes -.-ilo u Lr-: r.-r 1z :3- u+), -)i -.t- Lr'+# u'++.5 JJJ J aj-.r-+-J.: L+ >.-l uL-;g , p. Lb ,c) s)H J J-ij LJa 'i-i:! -), p,Jt L: -+ Li++ L-ri-+-+ ,' Jit Hjt rq #J cr!# I L-g]-54d iCtatO t i,.-ij 0, g-4- 0 Li.q [? a1 l--a-, - -4 Lj o-; r d4 peak .J ll L-J .rJ-,t --o o*i 9 t*: r;j-J -l-? -F-? corruption u'.a--, e"+i-+- r- L- J-r-+ I don't know his name. . I + r chief t-s blue eyed guy Ml Idl 09 Jt> l oot )tt L-fi*+ ^-ij JJ 9-t -S UJ+-ij + J L+-5 Select -j o c.lil )9t j-5 F-r,ljj -,,r-5; r# ttt3 -r) politic . L" I cr+-, L{ L1.-i-1 LF.a-, ^-i .}+l-.? ;1 ,r-,: F-3 r-! t u--r T they is a choice of J :r F4 F --.Fj a +: *-r 4j armyu,- ..:r, .p,) ;.-r.,.r--i' J .s i) 1 *- ShrOUd . Crude''-i+ p-* r .i l.,Lta --+ J -). 6-}-.,J -)-{--, . tp, €4) .15 (J'+jl+ n+ J L, J-i Li-r-:--A,., op )tt €) "-+ J c.+i.l-- ; .,J-^jLJ u++j practicable .-r,-, n-1 :r-33 0., | # .,-iJ .,5 .., LJ Jpolitical parties . u.1+--il 3-,.-a.o direct election ur*lji 113-+j-5 ,pl .(,'1; ,:f+ (J-y o-Ji political parties ^+tJ )S ) --t++ 3 y-'. -ia u-: + -l-.,1-+ J -+ld L-- Li l | j .rj 0+- r1,r ) I -+-l t+ .r-r>J .S t-- 0 jj LJ u- ,53 * L? power Election -+-f ;+r z-J ^+ 9-s Commission ,.+-n+ u..-, --i member o"J u"J J cr:-F jl ;l i-- i ;( o/)r orc L! L-] o1 J t J r,, - --i +J L-++ Lr-.1.-.n - -a ,.,-++disqualification oy ,r. t ) 9 t -41j- .(+ I o .r.c L! l_r Jr1 I r-5 c,, F-.? ^J e-l -t-:* ,r>13 J ll 14 .S uJ+ Lj-d-r-4.o . uJ-+ Lj-,-Ssupport J i- t1.-.'; J *- L- _p L_r c1.1...o - (J-++ _il-, u+- r1rr ! 9+-5 I .t{ ljl I I :l e-fj ^5.-f +!+=, .r-gJ o1- -.; I "S cF+JlSOpenly . Lj+2 15 L+-r ;r-St - -') ur r,5- s-, "l-.t.,.r-r -J,,rJ..,l ort.LJ -,L+ 9--? 4+ :,-. .9+--t >+ J* ,rj.9.,1 rj t L? p-il-" J-5 ,,tsS | :,:t ..;"i Lj-+ 6Jj L! ,5+l o.r-s L-.iL-r H c1.1-o 18 -tB j J5.- .5-9J --r! FJ J-5 + \,,"j . (J.+J J I cr-r.-, e@ J Lla-l I ) jJ-S Lr+ii ^j-l _l 1,a -o -4-a--.oOthefwiSeu++ - -1-f-i- Lil L-,a : q g.+-, L-? &_-j.l : !..> jra--ri1 - ^-:J-G U'-+.r-JJ-.H 9 ibelieve L---r,F1 I . lit J Lj..;5 r.l , ,'J .: u,, _9r Lp =-t-r+ u':+ financial J ;.-ti+.- I -J ,4 fdirectly elect r-5 .r+-r+- *i Jr <:r .-+ L+ ,rJmindSct ^--J (,)':>5 flow o3 ,.r++pOW€rS t J...l-, "'+;. -u3 cl+ .,-,-r-5 -- .iJ r+ --+-J JpOwerS -j+l L1-1-o-; Jjl+j >. 6st l;afgument p J -). ^-)_ .l L-J d-l-,J J ,r-Sforward -^ .t* J u r-3 r--l ><--i. L-: -. -.,1.b J J-+-l 1t c+) ut . =;indirectly elected House J lt i li l-, J -+ .r- L+ L3 j'- . L: i L: : powers ^+ J +J : c,1"r-i-S - ; ++..-financial .rp r-,-l---00 rgu rn € n t Parliamentary Committee on Constitutional Reform purely directly ,-,-* . .s-t-+-- I !Lj-i+i J +++S- J .ti - L{i L+i if a quasi-purely elected House. can have those . --J u-*ielected House powers, why can't a llouse representing the Federation or representing the t t*r",i+,-j Provinces have those financial powers? 342 --.-|-"-, 60 women members -- 0---342 members --4 @34 Umembers which is indirect. 10 members u-+-, .rj I fiwomen reserved seats belonging to the minorities, thcy comc through indirect elections. So, that makes it a total of /0 indirectly elected members in the National Assembly. 272 +- o+J J,-!70 memlers JI 1,.st c,n u-+ -342 members members are directly elected, which is almost what one third is not directly :l.5 r elected. So, if thcy can have financial powers, why can't the Senate? I gJarguments I t 1 r)p J-5 H ^5 ,..,-1;r-5base .rI o, . ,.-.,I an extent .,;Jt __1 ^- u'iFmaintain (J-+l #secrecy let him cast his vote, if . o+J lprint pU L5voterJqballot paper you, as a party leader, feel that Raza Rabbani has sold his vote, you should be entitled to ask to have my ballot seen by the Election Commission and I you passed Article ,tL*+ _s t then should also have we should amend 63-A ..]t5 ,lJ+j+ -l-- c+ tr+ >JI -t+ ol+r c.l-l--? Jk .r+-+ t >+ votes against the mandate of the party in the Senate J urJ paper r-+,-o-;f | relections t uI tt --, ^-l I r<:r 3-sballot a- -rr ..u L-a jl '.j.; I jJl L+: .51", L'. u+-r-, ,3 +- "+l -S -- ,+-" J then it should be within your right under the p.-), L+r e_: 3rr jJ Constitution that you should be able to de-seat me from being a member of - +- L-- .s I ujr-J ..,.-,the Provincial Assembly. !i.+--..i-* .-.r U-' - ^-2..;iS; :6; L.iJ uL..> 6",.,-:..--0 $ ,p*.l*+- --l !, &?r .t3 o:13 3 L---, .---.r€xp€lience ; .,-J-Ljj .j+ I rp sjprocess Jelection r gi-4-.7 -i-l-j.i.rdynamics u.-r---.provinces F L-d J 6 + y-. Lr--+ -:il- * L+ --+ jJ-+ ,r-ijjmanipulation ;;J aS an L+J.+ , ..iIj--.o o . -- + c) Lp --.? ^3-+ >+ r -+pOtential ()+-, !JL+- r { : L-Jrjelection contest LS ,",, I t..,independent ..;r4general seat J rl u,++3 71.. members JProvincial Parliament . L# -+-.441 first priority votes L-|+J--ij -+-J J-j3'felect -J-H h i J o t-, -+) ul Lr+-" .!- J at ;single transferable vote u.-r--. j+? I . t-j.+:choice l--] t gjmembers J-.s ud .=) L# --) ^+ -, o*3 1 o+- )-ot L+- t--5Selection contest ! L1+ )L5i; tp J g+-; .,.+-, L: -+J *- 1-- .i tt .-r I J ld i t4: ++ -.l---.l --5 j.: J33 -, Jt- orJ -&;_1 4)U LSL1-oj J--, o-p F-rJ-S Sir, honestly regard that people even didn't know - o-H tH .',',.-o I r.,r L-? going jt u+ -.1 Lland I am to name but who Mr. A, Mr. B or Mr. C was. LJc I pl> L].+ I clrr LJ Cr+ -j-j J J;,L+--+ J -.1 F5> di J r>J -j Jl---^-A-i,,., 1 .,-+-+ jJ aL-or j--,, 1 F-, J L-i;c! l ll( I ur 9.,"++point of views J .riLJ Lj:-,.,- J --l FJ-l--r,-, r.*-4j S--1 L+-5 L-s l-5 .p-; ".la-Li o,r .,,-;rights J;L+ J,+t-+i+ g L+-5 I t jt L+ ur: S--t -jl-r lr-5 {r, o-lr t) L+ J o',ir#J+J olJ -jlmembers 9- o-a--, ,rJ-4--l.,., | --+ Li:: Jrr J --., el--> J s-l ^+ jl-l L+ ,--.? Qr Jl-5irl LS -.j+J'",, --..?i 3J ul \sp aQ p J -+S dJ ,=+ u--rJ z-Jtickets .r-:.; U+ :.+ a,b,cd,e,f want to be the members of the Senate, you . LF+-, J ,j: u+ 20 6o L-^{ | -rr.rrd.rr-:: +JC .o:r rjb. o+: J-Ja Jgive in yOUr inpUt ;r I Jz_ <_) .j_.{--,++ Pa rty Leadership - Lj -e_f ,-}+_# J._a.g jJ-s j- L4.j t+-5 _r L+ Oil_+_J I G+. d- u)t_i \r_) , _a :t++_3t tl+ b L+.L-o ljl.6L-j u+--, el; ,.r, t 9-r J U+J Lj--, r-5 c,,t F+ .1Jl - t-a . ,r^S .r+- ,J -j 9---rr€presentatiOn d }-< .st Lo+ J o+- L+++ * 3y) ot . '._-tJ+ LjJJ L-+fjoffend 95 ,-^J .j!-s J eli Ls oJ . tS ogt,o ol L1-1--, i,r- --l Jlf -p) J €4y uol J I J L-?i F)., ta J J-,.j o, . Lr..1-1 -a) _jJrepresent r L"I e]- | - --J Jjrepresent e5federal capital o r . u.*+resident ,.rJ-J. Li '.1 ^i ,r-Sfederation J *j-i- + .5 -rdfgum€nt J i --,. -4 Jj-f-] ,jS5J uF+" iS--r ..,-+-, a- v"-.s >--; olr+ ,-, --.? L5J.5 PrOvincial p H ot-:y. ,! .:j9J L5 (J-+-t{ J Lj 34 4 .u-H ._r-?,' e-i-{-l J lelect sS ,-,*J! J-.' L,+JParliaments (WC08 .5-1 L? JT ) T08-11NOV2015-, Tariq 04.20 PM. J"Ur J oy:t--,,-(;:+) -- .-<; L-i-J OL, Li^r-. f . -p+-*- .r--.fJ 6--5.4.l J Felect ss oy3 g-' -o-' ,r.-HProvincial Pariiaments j*; District Government/ Local (# r L+i F}, | ,: )-* . c,-1-1 now that the Local Government is there, that Local !r-+-j u-] ricovernment )et .s # J lelect --t J-5rGovernment of lslamabad o S L- €-) "J4* -* \se 9 9-i 9-4 -ti J -j-4-r.:e. 3.+ n+ J C>b ,,, I )91 ar+ J (p J Jj ql oJ J ,..r++ -i# Jli J o3l...l tj Lj-Jexperience L5 +J o)l.i.8 -tS o rjl-! L+-5 l-:Lo+ +- LJ " ,..r-p -r-5 44-S oJ .Jl )9t L.4-j L+J .*. .,-I+--l >.? sj LS ',1'+-|-- 3"a 3"4l-: J r9 p -{ ) I t -) s3 pU o rj.--.r ,=- .---t LjT ;t;Land Cruiser These are harsh realities - L-5 -j,X-6.J .'H Lr-1-a; )tt -4 Li L{-5 ;++ life that have to accept and then within these constraints ry4 t)+r ^-1of *..=) Lj+ Ji -p p t-, Jmaterial g,, t y) -; srp u4.o-1 . <), 6JJ,i.o-5 ,r-c L--ci>l 15JLl.1 I .,5 rr-{ J n+J J - 13 .h uJ+ +- L-- Jconstraints s-fi I #constituency J .rp \,-t) p, .l LJ (rsElection process t . Lii.r> ,J.;lS+l I V Lj+ -. ++ La Lj-1s JJprovince -l +l -sbeing a productive Parliament )et constituency management s-j 9J ,5-i I , J L,"--?- L5 -H .i.,;r-e U.-t---,CaSeS -";-j.5 | 0 L+--"J r Jl_l-'a ^l :t-rJ-. o 9liJ--> ,r I u-H .J; J ,-l-+-l "-5 , | .r-1-i-1.> Lj+J J ,-r4-1 FU o+,-, g'+ c.{ J-++ u,,iLS+-J --, He won two MNAs seats as an independent -.-p L-,.a j.,a.r .r-yi-n; op, J Fr 9.l; Li ol J --, Jlr- .-: p, t r-+--r L15-5Jcandidate dr++ Jl.1-1 o9 . q-...t L.-.t, I (JA+i Jgr or++pOpular -), -S 3 S,,o 1-.43 J parliamentary requirements, o t L-Fs ,,q-J LF+, )i )s j-jJ oJ Jl-,..o.lJ L+ o-*--,element --Jrroversight "-s _lrrlegislation u-, L4.,r c)U H 1.,; L.a1is oue thingl .j lr ,j-il+J| - u-rreffective D! Oq-J -i++ -6j L--, Jmargin .j.+ !,t^l+Jl r-a 9-- Lr-i+-l silS u+--' - j-)-5 9++ oJr93 .rJ LjI u1r-.a &.l.a1JJ L+ ,-d+J J r!-i^JJL+ J Lp uH LLjb J-5 og3 l d"at X )* jl+ry t-1. p.u* j.-fterms "l-+-^-l uu* .,-i3 J ,rjJ .1llt 0l | c.ta+-j -Cj L-", a++ d".irqJ I LJ "i+ .r+-; -j.+? Jmajority ual j!r.4+JJ+ j ua--+irJ-LJI JtermsejL+ L-i JL-a .a+j La> lcjJ ,ql "-? 3-S u3,j'-e ,lL+--J u+1-rcontribution 'e ,S J ct+- + r-5 o{+s;J p+ J --t, a)J)- .S -'+ l- J; i >s J ...5 ojt L-5 J ;J.c L^r ,r- L-y e+.o-l+ -+J i J-J *i-'f .Ji+ | LH ,=a) i F ; ,Jpersonal friend ;-; t H . c.* jJ .r--"ori --r-? t H L-: u* a), ) f .,;lJ J "95 Jlt ui-H -, u'.irS+J | 4 u+-+S -r-+ Li r+ *, da) i -f J Ul+-, .:j.-^+JJ L-f Parliamentary practices and o J GqJ Ljl-, r^+? r,+rj y I J J.J!J L+> I -+J J --, F )o .-+;r--o ,Jparliamentary democracy Llt ,tt o . iIl+--.tPlease don't get offended by this---.; Lj-S..r -f t .: I ;lii; cr;.r.u 1.1, UjJ i.,,r.ql I XMNA or MPA -+-J J ,.r.r L+-l o+r;i I J I :J p L-l L-J .r-, L+J L,b -1 ol I " yq ..( -, .31 2) 6> J .-.r | ; ,;yS I p L-4-j ; €t Lj U*J .1 lil." d,+-F{-a JL: i - .-.r9 U J-5 9i .1-J =-;--i.: e =-j _, l,; -j_{_Ll J #competenCy L4j L# --, .r-l-- t-- ,+; .rJF1 -J L-l -- -d+-- J Vi -r+ .9+ ts1-l ,i.2 9 _;.a ,-&; J -.-r+ 9-5 .rlyou don't even have to ask J o,, I . U+1,-, l)J L, I :'Stature L5 .;tlt ort .9+ Sl 441 ._) t t J U +-c L-; .- L5- r- , L.+1,-, >SCOntfibute 33J U-!-, e_J J gl *j L-s l.:, t -4 J i.1j;l:l J -), ,5-.p. .;; n--"0 3 d t+f i o o+-# 'q L,i 9-" ,r--r: 9 .u+lnominatef u r-S-rJ -*;l o9 o J u'S+J -.+ Lj-5.,, .]--Sa ; &:,1-+J I o+-+ LJCOUflSeIOT e.a fstrengthening of parliament on democratic system )tt qJJ-.t-.r? u L-1-? --t 9- ,=a Ii(..' J.J contribute -+-J J ; )-S b u.-bJt jl L.,r PAs tcandidature L-5 i 9-- ar -SM ; er :,+ - ,-r+i :S ) Ur--l .r Lj',+ LiJcredentials J ,-, --J cr, eJ --t J LF*j J ,yl Jtl cu-? J j €-.?J i .;lJ -. * ar -- C>b ++ ^--?. rr-H A+members U_1 J! L; i :r-r ur-r t a-l ^+ ^+ ^-S ---t .r- '5+ -J ,J+JL? o+1i | -;-re e o) o"--: oL+ .s-l L-4+ a-! )t g- J 0 Lj4".-LJ .-^-.> L., | t !r ^J .L1j i.- r-, 0 t-; Fla, * Sl _1"- -p+-t4- J i L+j ;rLs L-? of J .r- --:-i- S+l .J J -o-J =ji _F z_J --+ tS 1 o-> L-.o l-, ---t) lL+ lL+ 9-V-:1-.t -!a.> ..;l-r-1.r.1.,,l. Lr+-, -ji +i knowing him personally and his financial status as such, he Os+l *+r can't even afford to buy the numbers that I have quoted in the press all the oil S-e .-r- ts) * t1l (J'J.J--] o* ,s) * s-H (J-:j-++ u-.J+ ltime J z-Jt:r c-)e-| J Lr-H -.--:r ..fhighlight o-:t :1 Li*jr. eJ .ll-5 t .,.+ o-a-+J J Lj r+ c'.--..- I 100%.a-i .,-r b -o-Jcredibility doubtful cJ LS sa -*-1-1 r)* I !S+-J r+ Li l+ ,- +1S r+ -.t -1 -rJ . g.---1---', I | : t-S-+.- . j)ihighlight p-; c), I J-- ^S.j,+-J o++ &+-j-r I J ,rr' +j o--rj u iCy .," t .r-: t .^ " , ey . '5-, i .Sj 11; "LJ ,j3,acredibility effect J z_Jlri o, I -)4 aa orl-.,J H ,-4* fsingle transferable vote e H JU-p ;t 3 z-H-L L--.r :r-i3 )9t -+-+ + 9-.,' CIL u-t --t --1 *:t ) 0*,t r+ JtJ so that the people havc a choice, -++ + Lj r+ ,-t ir.rj Jsecret ballot pr-rJi u.J J-. j I d , r ; p-;they cost their vote not under any pressure. 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L*-J u++ -L,L-i J,J J r-i-, u*l-l.c L-+ -l I I i+ o, L- L-: : I j--l u"+++ J +Z ---ig I --l &Sl t3 c+u . -+-: L: .--, i -ei L- J .:.4, ajJ; J u+-+ o-r+J J Lr-a-+j l:l 5j ei Ls-6.1 o,^ ) 26 66 u.: +-Jl . -j+ J orj+ri -_.:-_: list J rr,r )3t J.+ parties J! JLi j+ ; ,r-3--1 public ;e' .sr .r-H *J +.i+-,-J t}-g) I --.L+ J -; .-{ -rr+--.i erJ J9J -- o.9S ,--< ,J+l-, { 27 67 z) *, ,-r,l-le. o-.;-gc a pOw€rs ,rJ 0rt Jsl WOrking J '".tr !"' t!+-, amOrphouS J t - LJ LjJ-S qi pl-.- F,,Lj ll ^-: {,-# z-! J+ JJ j; t-.; discussions jL-S )t s- J o'+ idea LJ "J H c,, --1 oq .,-i .^ -*l- -,rrl u+-., -l?J-5 'tU P. & 'p ql L-5 ul+-J o+-+ .rJ drscussions ^+ -- H -oH .,;'+,-"--, cr+-, convincing argument L-: concrete L-+ I ;J-5 L'-+.A, ,< i ,r# | J ct+l o+-- --g 7-r u Li-r-aJ. | 9_( :- }? l-i o+r- ri.,ir+J o r L+J c;t-1J -j L+ -J 9--1 is-z.-.4 .5.:-+ u-{-+ .rjj.+ .l+ rp I lil i.-.!-+ -,a< H # existing system J -++L+ ,-;S F)- .+J J na L+-5 Jljr L5 ;IL+LS-3 L, I J L.'!J .jJ...., -i+ U-i-r I . ^--JlSi -u# -Jq J+ aj -) l<: !"irS+J F)- 1 -.-r,-, L.a ll-o - !S-.i : g t--;.+ U^>J ^-r O+-r>--++ - .f Lj+ : J.La t y. op tr+--l--++ ^{J$ ;lu-! ' -l--+:-+", direct and indirect l-; u+ . LJ u-!L{jl -J', dJ+ rJ ._:+ L+-5 jr-Sl Jt-t or JJI .-4 definition .,J elections . o+{ ji JJJJ .riij-i -a oful ; LrJ-,, 9r H ,rr.,t-; L1.4-2 jlS eleCt' u,+-.+ 0LJ.,1l J u-1.1-I1-.o'.rl l++^a "S tS ,rj r,.h-j.u-o +5 J9--r 9r Fl . u-!+ --J-5 .r1 through secret ballot L.5 --.? Ui indirectly .r+-? -,r--r,.,,-r-r Fjr.,;,.-l .Ji F *, JJ (J.H-5J Mr. Chairman, you are also . U'++ -i+ r . ) powers .rJ -c+ V I 4."q sitting there through indirect elections. President is also elected through .r rfo I o I | indirect elections. -l \st +S L+ ,r-l J ,jr!S+J I -1 .l -;3 L;j.4 direct .r-.6-l .-.r LijJ I LJ J r-,a or-t J La-> -2-A-.n * .F I | Ljg'; direct .rp u.,ilq-J I L-5 ..;'j.^j-- F, )+ ) 9 -2J.Q U-*-i.,.r t indirect - L" J laiJ L( I J o.H oF+-, -++ MPAelect .< lt .,;'3t basically it is a wrong word being used. ,€t tp, p <-t LLL> rcpresentative J:l Lj+ 1 o! ).tt d) LjI Fy .r--2 election through the mandate of the people of Pakistan 9i -'rl ejr-f O>c J:l H .liir -J u++ (WC10--.---!5J+) ..-J WC1G.11NOV2015 FAZAL 04:4O Ll.+J I l+ g- .---L 31 b SJ-a O-alJ! I 'l' .* 9S j +-l-:il- H L1-1--, o.r I J U-" .)..ir5 eSs J :l .-) . (,1-11 !.+ I jelected 14 J ,r-J + ,5 rdiscrimination ')-+?--, elected z-)i3) p ,=) t* oJ,.5 0l . u'+--.lunelected Prime "S a), Jt t" "--l I ;r.+-, & 9- .,.-a-.i s-smembers to be Prime Minister through indirect ---, .r+*:right .r-e-+ J-JMinister I elections. * J s 3-1 .!-ijj Js-l t -- s-+ *i ut J +I ,-l-, 28 68 g"y .:*.,.l I , ,c) o 15-H a H:^? ct-+p -,a eT 9 -;horse-trading I : -.r Jt+ --e: .f l.i" -<1 la+ cr.+j j,-.,.-.rlcve I LJ u, I .-l !(i Lj,; aSlevel L,-t+--? L" jJ,Jelection J .r--, t u; JConstitution says ! .;+-- r-i*t p-.^L,r L+ J-l--r L.o.; p -) Ffu ..'-, U: r.: F --1 u-JJ r*- a-.1 t party bodies .r-a-1 9I -1-f r i c, LJindependent -slocal "-i-J -- ^+ JIJ orL+j J I t l - cj .r eleCtiOn --800 -< '- ?-9 61 J vf --l.o1..i J L> J-|jyou are have Senate in the country. J -l 1 - <-i I J. 6-.s9- -.-5 ...l'i 3$ -9-H jT I J.++ -- 'e ;-..4discrimination between thc lower House and the upper House e I - a4 Lj-S-,a +_l s# ,rJ3-5 Ji+i-+,,treatment with the Senators. Why there is no chance, I was . l-i,S--L I Lj-L/ -1 r+ .IJ -.r r di J+ o r ,..+-r j4Prime Minister .1J r Jthere is no provision in the law ,1+-# uJ+-S -- o L-i-+ j'J rq-i -15-,.r p d,n ,J-+.r-,r I uu y]t sS o"+ e1 (,J jMPA J ?r selection J .JJ J-st - _j-S--++ o-H l-j-g.a-.o.,,r o# --+ L44.6..; tJ z_J iSl -- ,;ySSS Oj)li in terms of gS+-J LJ 3-? ;'a-!! rJJ p .5-+{j rJJ 0J J selection, in terms of decision making and in terms-1 of assessment of the as compare to an ordinary ,3 t- o I L-:j rr L-.l JMPA o 3individual I j r tgifi2gn. 1 u-*-r-I-.,.-r-rr .,i J ;+ + JI-s F-J.J J-5 {J, I Lt+J &S-!J u-!+elected c,,) o r-S 3.-l p L-s o J ) ., I u-++elected o l-re J J3--?request 6..,1'r-, .< ll I,ir I -(,-1-2 .,-J uJ'--l3 Jelected u+ -. - o! )3 : t r .rJelection reforms and electoral reforms p_1 I -a) €) o.* o.s-.? L-;-gfully endorse r-5 :- L-,a .r; L,i--r :r-., J J -i?t LjJJ u4-firepeat u+-, J-5 or . u+--? _+JpOintS raise _.dl r .il ArL+ L{ r-4-,y _)i-; -lU+ 53J 3.-'basically ds+t ,- Lj;q La-fctually 2_1 J -+ ,^-r:i+j J-5 Ot u-H --:i .i tu A_-, + L+J ,5.j S ei )rt --:34 -t-4 I ).-a Lr,, J.SlSsueS - u-a+ L+JiSSUeS J-Sr eI _.,S-+r u+_Ft ;.-,,r) L+ J ai^+JJ + J _4 t+! "I,s +fu J L+; ++ --,j t-,rli*+: tyr J I t'it ! eI Jj u++l-l J -e) t* o,'-;) yS J L+-S j jJ ilt--r-J )tS u-+,-, orlAi t" J J L- L+.,1 ti..: - . ir-.JJ J o , .-l.-> L, i r-ila I o Z-_!+,-, s{-? ,J_'aJ J --tI -^ .j,^-J n> I J J dLi,AJL+ JJ o+-- j t;tpositive .1r-Sadvice ,,r jI d, | .Ji s-i J-5 O+iT 0., :q -+- J .=) + -: Ji +J .s -l-,+ c*-r-J u|-pempower gJ .-r-+--r U: gi LJf Jj u-++ I ---., + -Lj ! " U, :.. La ;4--,0 -r> L,.r . --+j 61-r iL--r-9r, .!r F+ ei -J .-r f,r,iL,-.r U*+-, SJill uat +-b ry - c-p e-1) -F O-.r I..- ,rJ |i I o9 Lji b; L-5 i t< -r Jl -4 },"+r ,jJ.S-+- .(+t. 0., 1 J + J.;.S (,,o.lil-j dJJ-l u-5 0, 1 JJJlist J'-s -j+ j-: "+ -e4 $#l :l++ J-u-i J Vi J L-.+a -=j+ L+-5 --+J J-5 jJ 6-l-Jj++ J u-s Lf Jj --.? qJ u-*rj o39MPA,<:t .$l J-5,J,-L+-A-S A,tt+--J I o-yJJ-++ l+ { _), o__# .!- J-5 J r_- L{ L+-s 4j u.S J in conference -; Lj=Lr .s -JI oJ --H L+ Ll+-l J o+-.! L? .,1r-4-5 let 2 or 3 are given real good punishment s- -1, .n.o-a+ -JJ-S;t i.1563 ..1el 62 H -J u+J+ ++ .5-1.6j j.;-Spre .g.,1 L,,r H -Up et>S .:L+ 11+-- I )jt .jl L-- H jL" i, I "r-5 lr+ J+ .r-Jpost J --.1 ^J I oSrJ L+-5 J u+f o d-t .fl ,-re+ J+ L! o,t ^+ ,.,j.-++ J -jlJ o+-p I Jpre. uE+l f t >-t J.L+-+- S:l J Ljj Lir+ ^+ J-1-? - -), W J --l .r# oJ 9l -.r-+j ;+) -,r-S eU ++-S # VI oJ -.,-4--l .iH p. --;point of view I i jt L.5 lntelligence -,r+-r o+-iJ o-?-!1; --i-I-fj -..,rangles 0l !O-y_l-^-l+ ./Li+ -u,++angles --i+l J .si+l o+1 -iH -{-f-+l u-y ui Ll -l-fJ >+ o Lr: Vi :r? -+J J r-5 Vi ,+{ (J"+jI )9t o+t 6++ .lJl}L-t o, L+J VT )!l J L-4,!i--c I 3'J ol; L4iit Jl !u+.-Jj-+? * Lj+ r- -; L-:-1Sa llOw -p o+-J lamendments .jJ L- oJ j .., +-# H j g-r. +L3 gov€[nar]C€-c> . Lj SCOrrUption ._tS .,-4-.:rgood c]*].s ^-4i \sp -o+! eL-S .1J oJwithintheirambit aJ oJrrl s# .p $" JLi Thank you, Mr. Chairman. L-,a -l-l-- Li . .:d.+jr-i+" .1Lj.; Ji ) - - - -.r> u-l ^+;lili (--l ,s: u7 ,4WC11 WC11-11Nov15 NaeemBhatti/ 4:50 p.m - \9 L- J-+-- .r--; L.i . Ll-,il : o+---,r-^-++ + L-:.+ (-ir^J a,t +,t o'+-, !d'+-i )-j-+? ./Lj2 . ,--.r : J+- ,r--? L.i ++1--, z-H - e1 L9- t--, PJ I .:.i-+ F-l . U.H J J.(.il--. LJ +T )-?, 0J g+il-, "S --e: I --! ryl pU {?< U.+--r.lL! 0rl O-}--, J L+i j c-i t I oJ , ;r'-f J4-p -iI .-,".-:-l U.+ ol 0,, -+i -+.5 -,1.3 +-t j - L5.-1-4-1 Sl p-1JJ I L-rl u -9;, .5J -.^r.-1; uH r " <,^r-12 4i -+ 11+1i JJI cr-1-1 .r# rr- Li5 '-4 \rH !,jU gL+ e--l L-+ ,J gT s# .L-4j o-;l:t .,.r-l .a+ r1.11.-.l implementation j.j H n--.r .1 I .;> J.: L-5 ...,I r2 L-i, , o H LjlJ .LiJ-*j J L+ J l+ ji ei -,A2 -+ 6t-,-1-+ -C+J .1r-, ciilJ -J 9I :,? - -t4 o;1.:i Jll "-5| - oq sp e* e* ,r- t>+) --1) r.r L. JgJ :- | moral L-5 otei , Chief ,< l-.1! ^5,-.12 :I J -+-+i o,r lT lt o r p !--, . L+-S-,r+-s I J-5 mOral -) Ut *-t I llArmy Chief t .,p,3 r .-4J decisions .=1+t j or4)t , ji Chief Justice of Pakistan 32 7L j Election Commission J # -e, --J-,.a-r-i 3: .J:l .*# J-- -j+ --5 F-?rF judiciary.-+-.t J elections L}+..4., J L.t.s -i-r-+ L'r I Lr-S J cr r+ 4;.s U+-tl -|j u-y J -- u+#l L)4 .(j \q .L# --!J oL+--jLs ! container -,T oy Election Commission of Pakistan.J H ^-- r^-a+ F+ g'y u3JlJl ) r-iLi;) ,:.ii.-1, ) g+t ) ! | i.-,l'- . respOnsibility ,-; 9b ---' -; "S -_J L+-5 J ;l-i-, c,.+_rj I H I I i -.J .li, ..1r--; 6J rj Ll+ I J 6;i 11t g+- i.rl L-l z-J ts? .r> t-- t-.6--i ,e1 -a+ .o+r record i-J Jl-ll ---; Q * r . L? .: record iS Chief t:lection Commissioner o ) J-.,-, O 4j ------I 09 J o,, }+ FJ -:+ J -.:-)-j ,,-# -ljt? Lr.-&j-, | -aJl-r L+i, I ,;r:t I o3 I l-i+r "-Sl+ ^-i J ,-5 J -j.-l -.f +i L- t u -F{-ll+ }+-i, l+t --* or+ --1 c* ,5-t "-+ F ct--;S u+:-Sf .r4€ uH-& lrH oJ J-J H li-'r-rrl er+ H li+ J+ NA-122 ) et LiL" &+ J+j o o ).3l -Lr >S Ltli LiJ-5 gp €i 9) {.5) c)+ J oH Lij L-o o+'-r ' Lj+J action oJ J-++k 3S Election Commission of Pakistan .cJ u'1-# n'.L'-.o I I jlPl odl ), r-1 I Lj.-r rule p -. o*ss- li J .-eJJ J--< I , ,'t- -. )S o, H .-jL+;) ,s..* L# 0,r --1 6a1 4J3'o .z-r j+lL+; L;1l; FJ jl FJ oJ -9.1;JL1j -l J I oJ out oj+-s implement 95 :r1L--i-j.;r -if ^-< z-JJpoint u+'o'-., | S LF-IJ <+l I J :-.li l.' 1)tq -',r :^? UL-i +J 1.1+-# I . r+;>-+ *+j- L+ i't- action ;r.-? o, | --t o 3',-.l *+f^-; +'.,l J €-at) )tli zg-i LJ u-, I L'v NA-122 :,.7 -L+ .r++ Lj L--, L+j J J+lJ-: .'j-.? | -- L) t-lit .il-+J --) '-)P - r- u'++l-i I -r+, S-, :q H J ,L s4 u-y ,r4 )3 I X-, rrght 3.+ u-41...: I .i+ Lh-, J tt:: i Jrl n+ji '3J u3JlJl gi 1f l F+ r- G .>J ,J-Ffj J L--o'-*i-r I .--*rl o9 >3t 'e1 | l-1 . 1J . r*r- )l g "---.r.r++> ,J ,;--.lJ I >5 +*+'f o Lf+ -sP -13 lll ..i+-l+ Ft4* sp p .g'n; -- 9-. -.6--a-a 1t a-+-t t gr-5J LSj I * * ef J*il5.-al ^Sj 97 Jl-+J J '-r ^5.I+ =-rt L-,,a o L'o L+ rr "u: Li' eI ry L-+ J gf -J u v-l "r-^-? J J ' a; jU"d-S e,n o-*U+ J +f J+J .r+ r oe-+l )tt j u s-l 0+J bOre J L-,, ;Lrjl o, L-l J ul , o+i+ =l+ J o+t --l S 3--1 2018'-'-' !.,T .1-5 1 ,J ,.t gl elections p'1- 'o+4 ;H Lh .r-J + l-S l5- ri -;r r^+-J;^J o+-, .,-JJ q o.' 9- J o-r ) ,.J'''lJ *"- o-r-+-jL-: c-lU-+ cej-+<-+ + -.5 "rt5 "+ :1 4 I L--a Ljt--r---2 r L; .sl L"+ L+-5 S U'J-.-j "-*,-l- u.++----: .: --.r+ 9J u r+J-.r z--';..-l Ji 9+-5 u-Jr --.s-j *S uv:l g ---+-l J u+--r J-l-**j H 33 +3 # !O-a--r.i l? ., Lb - o+-++ L" r )ia .-+a. )Jt u-+-+ 0., r o,r q I j.--. u}+J d c-,., t J *-J vl J.j J" .r L-+ ,-J good governaoc€ er.; - I OF+{-ar-4, ,.j Jli-, -.,,, - O+-L, -i-aa-a-o gOOd governanCe ,-f+ I !:,-- L" .q--, .r; Li : g;-1---o..)ri- l? ,..r LL> .:,, good - o++J L-? J+ elections ,-r+--t | , rt--13 +*+ # Sood governance ! ,J+-rJj-+? ./ Lj.. : r+-, .r; tj _!.f+j-a.- | good governance ) t -1 s) )S -j H - _4 .ra,> LS elections . : Li-.r I Election CommiSsiOn 0l H L1.41 ,,--f -l r c.r J -i.a-s .,-.r..; -j j.{J L-i-i U.a-4i o.J .(J-H JL!-J pl-i ..J!+-?JJ , e:o +j t_,, J .:L---ot ,r-!t ^+ ..1r..3 H .l-5 Jtj c-:lJ -,, !J-S H J o+J - ^+J-U - -LJ ^j alJ L-o-, .r-J J-5 0,"r+-4J dsiLq-Jl o+- J L1..> <_-i-+- : g_y+-+? + Lj+ - L- :- J-..; r "tJ.--a - --l-+ L+ U-:>t_+ ,r+t -J :1*, !U*--a-LLa? .J tii :.!rJ3 u. ^ ,r.r.J f .r-5.t.,.r ,1*u;r.4..r ,s-/ p up L-l 4 J FinanCial powers -(FJJ i:J La_i ,_6> I .si ,ji direct ._., o+-n elections T J o++ j+s ) tJ sJ-y-r I - Jll oJIlJ...- S3t o-t+ -+l -J H S: ut J -: ^+ Jtr-", calculate VI Ji --f L!+ .L-? 46 votes y'+_i+- S+t r,.+., *t+ MNA .<+t rs 4 46 J )et _-4_r -.:jJ J MpAs ui "S 9+-r-S oJlfj g )tl -r))L e-L^-.a -- rtl H u++ --s-; JrJ --i*ij -Lr5-2 --.lt -- 3JJ J pl.9.l; secret ,< I J -l "+ i!r- cJ ? 6H ! .l.-!-i-,-i-a? .J Li--> L3 .3+ .!>g .r+-t \j# -,t @t J_-, -j+ r!< p.jj 3J balloting Corruption L-: -+ L.-rl? L"r+_f o .r L1j ; r I J 6p --l_fj Fi_fJ independent candidates J _-l ^_? i_JJ+j d_p3 r - _1 s)H J LJ r-,+-# s L r o .t.-: cr.- ^s-.-+ o-l-++ 4 -- s-, uFHj Jl-J i , ji independent *; 9> L- .r---l J q J ., I :r> L,a .sJ LLJ 6.,.arr_, UJ+ | .u-ir | I --t-? + u+-i u+jj )J LlLi -- u<-+ ..1+r-3 .)- :1; - c4 ,r++ 0:.J L+ .J ;j'5 J independent . L+j (,jrj+Corruption l'r+--..r L,L-i-+ J-j o++ -jiindependent candidates .f,L? (+l "{i J -..j vi J --l 4 1;,e{ cr.;'..1-, ts -H .€) Li 91 6Lj L-5 o, l -H pt .-) L_f_.r Jtj JIJ MPA I floor "S -- uut -_r-5 .s.r-.,-l + J disciplineil U DJ J L_: _++ L+ .J F* .,-++ COrruptiOn ) I I L5 3-4 "r..l_; I CrOSSing .,-+-+ ^-J.-J--", J Al+J u+J u+j L+ .iJ L,a-+ Jp i' ! J \.e b c;r Li_) - rS H .. iJ tiC l;l +> +l -- g+- J cq-? l- ; ^.. -n,j --, e)y) I , I Jll tr-* ---f e" r-. .r+-+ ,r-5 -,+ -l---- ;i H e), ll J-5 )gt ,-+l +- L- J Vi :.,-r F+ --+-l J -jlS strengthen --.-, I L--..r ', lL> .5-i oe)S b r-+;\.t --t .ri -J ,r+, -4-.1 ur+--, ! Pi .LJ H u*j -ry l-, ll .r-r -J g# J L+.> LP )-gl - ,-tlii - L( -r u*!1j -dj L, LJ ti y" J ,;+j r.: jl o.-r r L+-5 , : g,+--.Jj-5; .i Lj-? ;l-ui-4l u-4--.2 r-)- ".l-i ,-::S;' -,I J Ljl just want to throwing up various issues . c-t discussion J Direct elections and constituencies -i.1.1;'1- J , I ,,-++l+r tx*j t d< lJ 93 Article 59 J L-5 gl>J sos- o-y , --) iLJ I | | LLI compositionJ 59. 0! ) t --1 r -'+i1- --J *iArticle o+J goes up for 3 L+ p-.r I -< I half of the Senate elections J -+ -J I ur.+-.0 out of 14 general seats 07 J I s4 ..-: +Ih- L-5 u t everY three years' will go up every three years, so they will not be 21 or 14 constituencies, gr-11 seats; L" .'.5 women a* u- I there will be 07 constituencies. so there will be two women const:tucncies and how will . *3 u H J J J-J you elect? Just women will go and vote? . technocrats j I r La-Lc 0l uF+J Seats "++ --s -r a* u-l Why lam throwing up all of SJ * voting cr.L' c*J u'-l- general sJ wewillthenhaveto ,t ,>:F adopt ;e-1-: 6# e1 e-r J thisis keepall of thisinmind +++ Q tr-H c-lJ 4 -:)'< "-? H .-(t J composition of the Senate . LF{ J }J totally change es Article 59 H | . totally change jJ totally .) U i?.}j" L-( elections -J u., g4: ;i-5 r-s tprhalf of the Senate going up for elections, .u-?J ;'s change i changer*-+ :qJ J I u++-5; u-i--" (JF-r 3 ,jp <.-, ,J - o.J r ,s L-i-+ L+-j I c, L: o, I u-a---. committee meeting .+< ' L-: 9+j >+r \rj+ Hasil sohib, are you ! L-5 p c* us --. J i f ec- .# j,J "r+-, getting my point half of the Senate goes J u'l+s--t: -o--< Article 59 J general two J women . ,r--< u+-, L? o L-.., --,.r o+. uP' 14 seats . poling women . J : | L-.'J--. SJ s-t -^+S rJ tS u'+-j +seats Will you be able to maintain the s,--< 9: -*s poling ,r-s technocrats will be p c4.p L) 9i 0.9 cycle of a three year election every time? I y.'. L+-r as good or as bad as a general elections' d J o .-.t-S ,s-*u j'++ i, L+ "L+;r-" Ji -)+ o, I JL...r 9.++-5 -r .)+--' (J'+i .r.5 u.! e L'i we are just throwinp, up things. Tl^ink about +-LL*' I J-l- ' -S'- r+ -l it, I will also think on direct because I am not coming with a ciosed mind' Sorry, Yes, Ra.ia sohib' 35 7S WC12-11-11-15 Ashraf we are just throwing up -rJ-.h--a I .r-+--.c -,< r L-> ,'r-r.-l r-i-l> u Li-, -l things. Think about it, I will also think on direct because lam not coming with a closed mind. Sorry, Yes, Raja sohib. t,-++ L:+ L+ Lj.,;r-S ri-; I t3 o+- :.!,*-J I LiJ6 i ,+t I +-l+--+- ,r-2 I q-j lrr., I meeting ,r-l-Jl L,i, J --l confusion Lij eI J - r | g+ g-a+J 9 .=-H-; -9-5 ,- "--r. J ^+ H r1.1.-.o u<--l | ) yl o+fi :.- L-.a o L,ir ,i-+,^e .!.-ila-, : 9 n:-i-i-57 .-.r Li-> ..-r> t-.a o L.i 0+,.r> ,. il"-- Syed Muzafar Hussain Shah: Thank you Sir. Sir, I would ";.&jlike to approach this subject by starting of that when Pakistan was created, we faced the situation which was a litrle peculiar situation. A situation in which East Pakistan had a majority, province-wise and there were four provinces from West Pakistan. The founding fathers passed away very quickly whereas lndia got a basic law and the Constitution within first four to five years. We had to struggle to try to be in a position to evolve a basic law. ln 1962- a unicameral legislature, then again in 1965, a unicameral legislature and then finally in 1973 and one must give credit to the Pakistan's political leadership in 1973 that they took cognizancc of the topography, the population, the issues, the balance of power and suggested an Upper llouse and a Lower House. Once question that comes to mind, political pundits, intellectuals, civil society, the lawyers, what would have been the fate if an Upper House had come into being right in the post independents period in 1947. Would the grievances of the provinces especially East Pakistan would they have been liable to be addressed through the mechanism of an institution which would represent the l-lousc of the federation. Where anyway, bit a late than ever 1973 so the evolution of two House, this House came to be known as the House of Federation like you have rightly changed its nomenclature now. Now, the point is that are we a federation? Before, I come to the question of the mode of elections. You have written a book on 'The Federal System in Pakistan'. Let me say that what are thr: requirements of a federal state? The requirements of a Federal state are, the autonomous regions, provinces and states that constitute a Federal State must have the authority to legislate, must have a fiscal authority, must have an administrative authority, must have a legislative authority. 36 76 The critics of the Upper l-louse say that this House is not entitled to be in a position to exercise fiscal authority bccause it is indirectly elected. To those critics, lwould say that perhaps memones are very short, in 1962, every polrtical party said that the temperament of the people of Pakistan was suited to a basic democracy. Basics, not middle school politics or high school or college but basic and the basic democracy is elected the Parliament of 196?-. They elected the National Assembly of 1965 and they exercised full fisca I authority. At that time nobody turned arounci and say that these are elected indirectly. Anyway, the point is that I would say and I think I do not feel that any of the honourable Senator sitting here irrespective of party affiliation would feel that i{ you really want an U pper I louse, the House of the Federation then you must have the fiscal authority. We have no budgetary powers. We are like a debating society who makes recommendations to the lower House. And what we do every year we appear before their lordships of the Finance Committee of the Senate where the whole plethora of the Finance Ministry and the FBR sits and we say sir, these are our suggestions on your taxations proposals. lf you would bc kind enough to recommend them to the National Assembly of Pakistan, we would be very grateful. This is not the role of thc llouse. You have l..lpper llouse in Canada, you have them in the States, you have in Australia, all of them exercise fiscal authority. Can we call ourselves the federation? Whcrt: can we call oursc:[rcs federal system? Therefore, with due respect, you were the father of the 18'i'Amcndment, with due respect, lwould say when the 18t" Arnendment was being formulated, the fiscal powers of thr: Upper House should have been formulated in that amendment also. lt was crucial point in Pakistan's constitutional history. We were at the cross-ropds, say that, sir, alright we represent the provinces' Those who represcnt the provinces havr: no fiscal authority.Why not? To the crrtics and those political parties who are representing in the Senate are also representing in the lower House, thc National Assembly of Pakistan. These were the same major parties which represented Parliament in 1962 and 55 during Ayub Khan's era. Nobody objected, they participated in the proceedings of the National Assembly of Pakistan in Dhaka, in lslamabad. So, therefor<:, this needs ttl be addressed. lhe mode of election is secondary. The first thing, is that this authoritv and this llouse, does it have the basic authority to call itself ti,e House of the Federation, No it is does 3/ 77 not. We are a debating society, we have a question hour, we legislate, we discuss Adjournment Motions and Privilege Motions but money makes the mare go Sir. The mother of British Parliament says that it is he who controls the postings. We have no authority to say that how much we should allocate for what Sector in Pakistan's national life. We are just basically in a transitionary period where we can only communicate to the sovereign House which is a lower house. Therefore, I am coming to that and we must ltnk it up that what measures can be taken, what role can the Senate perform, what role can the political parties who represent it and I must say, it has been said, Sir that the quality of representation in the Senate is good. Let me say that all political parties are wcll represented. Senior leadership, ter:hnical leadership, leadership from the lawyers, busir,:ssmen, traders, indust rialists and Ulemos at the highest level and our contribution in the Committee system, let me say without fear or favour is much better than the National Assembly of Pakistan. Our Committee system, under your leadership, we have shown, in fact, if you have becn able to see the Resolutions and thc decisions that we have adopted for time to time, it has played pivotal role actually in addressing major grievances in issues that confront this State today. So, therefore, along with the mode of elections this llouse should also address how to empower the Senate so that the Senate can become a truly representative llousc o[ the federation which I feel would be incomplete in Pakistan's political leadership needs to address this issue Sir, like you wcre the author of the 18th Amendmcnt, from many years the three provinces, thc minority provinces in West Pakistan kept on saying that we have denied our basic rights. The Concurrent List should come to the Provincial t,ist Actually and it took us nearly about 50 years because anybody who talked about provincial rights they said it a traitor, he is against national unity, he should be put behind the bars and file a case against him. That mlndset changed after 50 years. We need to change the mindset about the Upper l-louse also. What is their fear in the Senate? lf they give us fiscal authority, wc are not going to be in a position to use it in a manner in contrary. to law but this is in distributing the resources, this House should determine, what should be the equitable distribution amongst the units of the Federation. 38 7B The National linance Commrssion Award has been [he parameter for distribution of resources. But the national budget every year, year after year that the House of fcderation should have a pivotal role in determining, how much allocation should go to who, what should be the demands for grants, why cannot we be on the Pubiic Accounts Committee, why not? We are a separate House and this l]ouse has its own committees and it has its own budget. lt has its own rules in relation to its employees. Why cannot we have a l)ublic Accounts Committee representc.d from the Senate. At the moment, if not in the formulation of the budget, at least, in the post budget period in rclatron to its exoenditure to see that the public is being used in accordance with the law and not against the |aw....,.. WC13-11Nov2015 05:00 p.m. Taj Senator Syed Muzafar Hussain Shah: (Contd...) in relation to its expenditure, to sec that the public money is being used in accordance with the law and not against the law? Now sir, I will come down to the mode of electron. Should there be direct elections for the Senate likc in the United States of America, should there be indirect elections as they are now, should the elections to the Senate for genoral seats, that shculd a province be divided and to say 14 general constituencies where a Senator could contest clections? Generally on adult franchise basis, on 14 constituencies as such. Should the right for the Ulema and Technocrats be given to the members of the provincial assembly or should it only be given to a limitcd class of people against the Ulema who are reprcsentatives on reserv(,. seats, who are representatives in the provincial assernbly. I would say considering Pakistan's political parties, considering the expenses involvcd 1n the presont systern basically of proportional representation. A party depending upon what its strength is in the provincial assembly, it is ablc to scnd representataves basically to the tJpper House over here. ln fact in very many countries in the world, even the Lower House has representation on l)ll basis. Germany has it, many other countries have it; where both in the Lower House and Upper l-louse it is proportional representation. On the question like you raised srr, a very pertinent question, ulema, women reserved sr:ats. When should they retire, should they retire after 3 years or 5 years? I would suggest sir, for your consideration that if you kind 39 7q enough to form a Committee to ascertain the views of major political parties. All parties have their representatives in the Senate so that you would then be able to evolve a consensus on major issues. lf a constitutional amendment is needed, it is to get through both Houses and the electors basically after the major political parties in Pakistan. Let me also give you another example sir. lwas talking to Mr. Hasil Bizenjo in the morning. Ihe 18th Amendment brought about the historical change in Pakistan's constitutional categorization but unfortunately, after the 18th Amendment, any of the provincial governments do not have the capacity to handle the subjects that have been devolved. ln very many cases they are not willing to fund it, in very many cases they lack the commitment. I was telling M r. Bizenjo that what is the solution to be able to oversight? See, as a watchdog, that implementation in letter and spirit takes place of those subjects that have been devolved down right down to the provincial level i.e. the Concurrent list sir. I would suggest the mode of elections. This is too large a House of 104. To really narrow it down to a base that you can evolve a consensus on, a Committee which r:an then take the view point of all major political parties and try to evolvc a consensus for amendments to the Constitution and relation to the mode of elections for the reserve seats. As far as the election for the general seats is concerned, I would think it is fair, it is equitable, it is democratic and it is transparent. Therefore, in a nutshell sir, I would say that you would be kind enough to be in a position to take the step further because general dcbate alone will not be able to give us results unless we minimize it down to common points amongst Pakistan's major political parties. They will give it figure anC form how to be in a position to give it a Constitutional cover. These are my views sir. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Hidayat Ullah sohlb. .-.r : oirl .:--, I .r-+ ! 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L.5 L,a o.' lLj,J 'p n-r> t>)-9 )-a ,.*+J +J cr+-" Oi * F ln the next mecting, wc will try and get these four - ,-o-: *< r p L! .;X+J 6-1-.l; J.+.s, -:.Jl : ,. 1 t ;J jq.r p L--r J.aexperts somebodyfromthe 1e t ,l !o -!a>r i>- L-:-: ce: ..;:.lr .i..i r )tt u-5'., --.'S JI -o-J 3:{ ,-,+ p; .*-;Election Commission 0"J gS -l-l1 ta-. Lf r-+j Lj-+ *-,+-J J J g+f-q J u+; 0,r I But lthinkwe r5e1 ll_i ,,L5 ,-ir_rla )LS r L_l -j+ u!- c>t, e on I LS 9. r (ts+-- s-- t-s _pshad a very good full discussion today. ( i-l-i-r--, I - LJ-o-i LiJiJ .11 3-J .] L-' o! | !,1'4.a; sp Lj-+Jpoint of view LJ | )t-? .r+-? O ..1'J '# t-s .)t ..+ +stakeholders ,-l-4-1--i 95one sided e+ -!+- - L-S -.1 Ljj-., .J-d I 3J ..1 I . LSj,a Stakeholders means everybody, MNAs, concerned --i5,.r -).s ,.++ provinces, everybody will be included in that. Your security agcncies, that is a reality you can't run away from that reality so we should face that as a Thank you very much the - J u.J-.-( : t i _!5 H c!lCommittee. meeting stands adjourned. (rhe rneetinq *r',;;;;;;;,;-with o vote of thonk) 49 tf B1 ,4nfiet-'c" RESOLUTION NO.258 ,,This House recommends that the Govemment should take necessary steps to empower the elected representative body of the Islamabad Capital Territory (ICT) to elect its representatives to the Senate of Pakistan on the analogy of elected representative bodies of other federating units to reflect the true spirit of Federalism." Moved by Senator Muhammad Mohsin Khan Leghari Unanimously passed by the Senate of Pakistan Ot22"d APril,2016 1o ,Antter- -"b,' SENATE SECRETARIAT (Reporting Ceil) CWO1-12May2016---Mazhar Subject: Verbatim Report of the Meeting of Committee of the Whole held on 12'h Mav, 2Q16. A meeting of Committee of the Whole was held on 12'h May, 2016 at 12:00 Noon with Mr. Chairman (Mian Raza Rabbani) in the Chair. The meeting started with recitation from the Holy Quran. Comm ittee of the / gt ." .tt ;,' ;t Jrz t,i!'/s / 11, J: 4 - 1. -l rt /' - =h ,,r li rriMotion move {2015 :J,1g t 7 rf -'( r,y ;' *i -S r Vb 6 *,i j i ifw hole I ( m e e ng ) t1, ,1 J.,,( me etin 8 J a-, a,) ;, { il' L * - i i,; li i,lj ; U,s7 /2075/ r t, . g$ vl t(.> uV c tt r,., ). ri r) ){,1 sr iy J J, E st t, i,4 Jf {, +r L ->r P -:i,,) / ^ (,v j t Pt p Lt"O J ?,r;? *,, <,1 +v 8,, * F, v tov c* E{i ?-,t5 )6, t I * a 7, ;, ) E 4 X,.i 4v / : t K, J,,;) co o/ I E, I t f v z E,tJ ;J'r-,tt j ;r,,Jl,,Ji 5 ruht| -;3t;tl"1t/i|t -jl'r;vS . ,,,tdv,:v 1,;r1.2,.-11.K,,C €y,, -4? * t { *^""rings'-} f v .,,t i' s ; >t !- ; t Lt -( I } r,,,vu,/F $, =i i ,f-u,-rv4,aiF fi 4;.rvL(rtgr-!r,-./:','v.,,,,ti Lo$'t:i;:meetingJt/rtP t ,i - L,l/ 7 4,, u i',, f. 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J Lttrnancially empower { ln ," Lv ,,J jl g i I i j m t,.f i,,, )Y pow e r s - - f - Lv r/, J.- e s at o n /,J! sy ste Ji if & r v{,.( t c o nf i d e n ce t( i,-E h ; z, /e x e r ci s e 4 I i u- f- * ! tl I L,i - i'Ju:,/ 7-' - ii i ncial p ow er s L yv7 i, {p ow er s L ! d,r - tvyr L / -/ if na L,:r1,'t 9 / ; 41 House Busine ss :--r !( r,j tY, t,t L ot,,,- L,j -i tf --t j! tlv', at$r ( ! g r, I gr j- i,fL r r n Z b co mmittee { S 1-t -rr L rt,;) t I 4 L L,l.>t: 1 J JL', J /Ly: - =i,,t ,il-,',,.f;g j*(r){,nmanif esto of increasin g powers(24 -rf --t 1/LLu -( Jt--:.,,8, jn i,,,f ,,zv Lric:/ -{t lsly,/1(already Secretariat{y' ti Lv* t j i t i v i q t Lo ) v vZJZ - i u-t - [;-,Lu ti r {n ;i ; E' -, ct-, t, K J -,.{ + l -t-./t = - { : t o )ti ,,,t,-t \i tJ', x t: uF JV + - tt x,l V v.f'>r,5 f3,.F V: f-, e/-: ff i \ / -h "f (,qJv--at,t.;,!L,/,,i.-t<.-u{t,/;t-agu,),it,J'iNio:/.r la JfrT'alogic 17 o ? 1". 6 r, +b u n t t? {P arty syste m-4-1, ur,ro pen ba I lot sy stem ! L L,, i)r*, L - jJ i J L + z!- i ul r tt vfirs L x (;4 U@ jv ?Z i / - i t,t - cli A t)r j\ st s* j{ - ?-, -gv 4 r,J't,,i =A J 0( rlpoints z-s f-, -( ) sl )t .ar ;)t i, o* - -ht,,y' =h /-,c)t; E g t,,-t "f t! A-f ,P Z -O I t., t 7 u $ U' +, / u {,>t. - ( I ;g c4 4Jr, .,,rt } f; -4 st milar Nationa l ( { r1 ai rect ly elected ( -f 4, ! qimpression -i Jt, u0 tl.t : $ ti.: t "4vt y t J LM P As tt f- L aq I a -i 55ust7 t : -tt'iless leg it i m a te u! a;t> L As se mbly 9r6ir, if I can address the financial corruption-4ir,;horse trading,tr4Lv<--*) *,/' . r,fr ,f +& x + z!-,; Lpubl ic show of handst/ t ), +d i rect e lection 1 ef {t{ uf ,;,orMPAt' +b,f l-+ibc,rmechanical exercise{rsh ow of hands!+vt/., because through .9r,/nominate vt lq-syslem/'a-;rtla-Y-:,.t,:,i{.-./0'.rtL 1f fiur -fshow of hands it is just going through the motions, it is better than , l-t"ii * {. U* d L vi ftrJ.v, X un,,t nlist4td zi}.tt, Lrl r aparty strengthrec' ,l n U { ti 4 d 4 t.,,r a- ;t } dv i -{r,( n O {r r esult*h ow of h a n d s,,t -- + } t1, rt I i I would say that is a better way.Z ( O,4t +i,,t f U i qE Ut ; L gtZ framers of Constitutio n t. -l+ - Jr rrl', g,,>, t : 7 1!s i t-u' i rt i L v rt.f ax co pv {'f $ i uF y 44 -G-t.1.{r d -- L 6 ./t l a,a r ot e lwould argue that lam the last one, lam not a lawyer, lam not a -+i Constitutional expert and you know far better than me, but is the function of Lziithit Senate to be representative or is it more of a protective nature aga i nst the L,f w ? L r) r L 4 c-v.lcohes ion protect e ration 4 fi 4 -i,,t JFed r;actually representative otttt-.fr-f inumerical majority of the Punjab Province and I think tha thas {sx.>t,*'{7,iar,(u-,./t-+?dx.>-ftt!;F X-tii,-t rtt/.i to be kept in mind, otherwise there is no reason to have two Houses of Parliament...... (Continued to WC-05)...... C05-12May2016 Rafaqat Waheed/Ed: 12:50 noon Senator Osman Saifullah Khan: (Continued) I think that has to be kept in mind, otherwise, there is no reason to have two houses of Parliament. 8 1e ne t;-r rexpertiseJ-'r t,i -rindirectly electedl=te 's. iu:Siy.rt -14.f {Li- ,i:Jl,f --private sector.e,:&lawyers!,,v--e'r;:-f professional politician-(r All this expertise can be brought to bear on scrutiny of -eii''-armed forces legislation, on supervision of the executive arm of Parliament. .vjelectoral cycles,:|a'teidirectly elected/i i4-(a.,f =issue6t:f''('ltA -: trv,, -(,;rl u( ,tF=q( 5 4.4{.l-longterm decisions{iin theory, ne4p! r{ ;'' ;: t th is is also an im pcrta nt i /'' $ I I --,-,,Y.( l)(' -( =i --t rfi' lL -i passion fickle decision 'r!i ./rr short term, ale -( ;-l gtl' /4 -r'constderation i t t' r t r, maki nB -; J r: m ore sanu n L Ll o n ge r le m z\,r < + J i-rc- i rect election sJ t w e li i t tast ti mei- - *4, +i x -r id uts)-h have direct election that how complexion of this House differs from that of Assembly' ; 4 1OOJ-6.fiT ot,:t-v:,1ti -"v -(f ,,.i o4|'':i --i)'{rthe National will be :r,Jr(=ion average -: si.r" fi -{L ---i=id1361 electionsl}4{'S;' three times the size of roughly three districts, so, you will need to have a Lv,7 strength,JsrP v. !c= 7'l financial support' -Z -E {i -advantage;:;t{'i s >' r p t * xa t,, pe r so nal( ;t'1dt'.'f JV - f t Oire ct ele ctio n'i L i o; ! J 4 i -f through Jj -V* direct electio n i JJ, -! t\ J lt :i t,J r-,4' " pass post'{proportional way !--.,r<,v:iv-.iF.,: -Gnot through the first the 2 l 7 v L't 4 2 t' * L JV I +*,( i r C ; ;v i --', ;, 1 :,,, 4 L t ;! "'; -t' 4 " ,1i_,jproportionally seats allocate,'=igt-,-.;directly elected=.7-r<- */,.1'.,i' -4 {. i tv (' mino rr tv vi ewsr f q i/' iauthority pa rty leadersh ip,f' n lfu xU { - ;.2 u(' :>t $ ) i ;t I -r, 4 1, elect,i i ct ('li ( k: ->- /t u{,!1 6 i I i.,y,J z ie n, r. elect{'t't 3 d x I J' i r n,* 2-ii.)6;r$s, tam morally bound to follow the party policy on issues'-t' j.,'r i t g y L /',ltf {MP As 14 r(, ; L J ?,a -i. ;,, r 1' A,i tY-,->, ).b' L ei J !''t " =i L,,r!-,{,,t j^r,tLt,J / /t /.-L),*,(L,,5,t,, !z-(r {-{tI lvr,-{}$ 'IJ:v at least lwould have had a chance to express my view and then I i*itPtsf .1 in uir,E,;tt,v',g( te,'y'i-l-tewill follow the party position in the Senate' -( v :,.,iubmit tiwriti n g :e{ '-'v ,y't$.-- '9 '/''1h 9 77 humble tj l,.f * L.,( .a-/ L t€ | L < -=h al :1sJt:. -.J v. f; 15 7 r"!,.ivttatisfied3-ii.,y6/.,,t,,rcf,,,f,1/tdrt!+-,tlrf*!6.submissions ,,f JV -Z { L L./,,, 4) t-r)l gt, t/t tlacunasc,v e+l LIt, +!,,,4ight now prevail -e d tf..>t,o, Lc / qj fu t L t;- {.i, ;r t * / a--tit is not co m plet e,/' q cf,, no dou bt devolve tlX i pt L I ; tl-f .,A r i x equalt!,10 { r.t t,, I ti,,t tv./,O rt *, * f {.g I lci L 9 ?,,,- a -(* -A e=v u v L i t; t t- t t Lb b 7 .-t, ir sn a pe {. { a f,V'!,? /r,l r,/d isba I a n ce - a - 4/,7,/. e1 *r{r{,}v,!oi&l'specifical lVtut{,!C}rtrl,reservation s basicallyt|,uuf,urr$ I t,G ( decision baslca ly i 4, -*,t: C P,, -a,.( -( - tI I i ji )= t ( !-.1,>t t!, -,t /- se e c t o n,! l, ; ni/, L (,fi ,, i { o x,i,/ v Lu.cf- i d -- equal representation tolally 6,u-;rtJ+"a,,!rl,,,lvt,i:favour,!{.,rf{,!,it , q ?trt4\J* L o V 6 ? lq JZ1le / l' { rtr tf L+ k !1 -.>t tJ 7 t : -q } xdisturb :3, Ofi L,Ot 7,Lv :fake |eadership impose !L,E r )t x ',f { 7 -i -1 |v 7 -xo:t i literally uv.JCy9/u,F,.r--t,+u-trf.>r'JtO'7-*1*,/11*.,.f.t,.tj-t,(l- -t! d',v f L o r,, -{-i,/n.? - rlLtJl, tt L /-,.fan nouncegfglr, L r; cf i elections special !;ggr,,/,!1- r).,urrlpz-e7,ilL,l.-Jvclju:ttf ,trl,,rjtJvi,,t -r,f - - c-u./i mp ose{t / l L ;r-tt,,.-tr',i-v f {o fl ,/,.-vt iu l }, + v } L co r n e r s u F {6 il-' Or gl f L 2-' c- Lt t t r ^y' t r -*, 6 Ot / ir - A tf, t .o f -,u, !,4 ;:a,,! 9 } ; democratic institutionsJu v. -e[ <- )j4g& {democracy,,,u. 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J v,f'' + i ),! -t 44 Jv< v! a =, A lu,r(i;-air;j,!i=.,t-,,,-{-Trjumpinge{un-l-r'-/i,i}$yilO,57,svt'aJ!! t, t t,,t i r ng! t assess-/pros and cons !- ; + i,f r r it, 7 i L u' / aL, q 7 -l c- )v -;1, tj + J.y {>-n o?oi t 4 {J 1,:',t L l.t jz, .1 { Ldirect federation {gt,-.,u l;i*i'Z ,;,J-?-.iL);',./'ttv-=l i.' t app oint .- v i L u' f l rj v I o', v t i m p ose { ; t, f or < 6 r; <, :,' r t',! s - ;n L x ",t - j r' tr t m o se L t,' t! /r,l,i ; * e-,,,r ue. - 2v ; ot L, L :l€ -fu . - ul L V { 9 J.v i -ii tu Ao,-r,i Jt Lfederarioni I iA {,zti s'-l i {,,,q LVr Lt/t 1ol,,/. basic Ls)t,,tiiivncripple6,b+OtylJG,{.'1,-?-tui6'trv(federating units ) :t y ri t N ls 6(f $( /sy ste m L N aB,,r'l,f- c cv Lt ! e -,- J,, - i i J 5 Ju-l -- ' Lctt lrn;{ 6-rr{t,t Ote=i'.f {o\y' =besi e-:L/ttS | {-,,iu.accounta '3 livrf',Cv6l,,tbio'dala{;t,iuJquestionin E.,ottnt"et:tt'zv L-/-41'{,1f" t, r p p i n t y j L N AB,,t 1,1 Llev el 4 L /,1,,,.,t -,,t t Lu g.ri o a- ;|,! L - 4 s: :s, / -- ,l' * L L ) ;r, - * ) i {{ L s'' J r - a iV il ;r 1-,-,u,)t:,' / d,! - t,i a,.r t, * " / (CO6---J,b) -Ae({'t,,,{t,;yL'tA4 WC6-12th May 16 Naeem Bhatti 1:00 p.m ( : 6 J.'' $ r s,, L r.tr n: /-1,1,i $ LI / ; t L ut - - - --i,) $- )u.,'-i a. 7ii ;{ r r L 0,.,,G Jt :t L,,, Jlv I -Jb, L t1t i 1! ss ne s -tP )'.>: -,; * + ./ -:: ;{ ->,, f' :i c- t'z ( J t : gt !i- u" t t! m i dd le siderr,,.,,r Eastern sidetJ ir, :, i s el - i " f 4 i',t i,,rL :,,,ttf authorityi {{ r)' r u( O,y6 y i iv! o"-r-, it )t --'/ ;v*l Jv,r t/.F "''' g u;, say - !- ;,i r' v L F,, ?',, i i {,! el, l',;u: j; -6.e{asystem;r6 i)/.>9it;! e-,t Lsystem;tt,i{ /-"-h f avour!;tLdrrect electionsy'that is O-K. i;|i rone of the best system<'-rrr t e I ect i o ns i ) ; p( .fi .,,t 4,f,v,! t mposerl:Z.,,tB e J )v {, i i i t x di r ect /,4'd' r s isy ste m,,tgt Colo ni al r i vW L d i f f e re n t i ate a n d d ef u e-{ Jf ,- a 7 -( J' r',,Q* a wh ol {; /'t w { ai,,,,li - system {,r gU-=r -( ar) . J'(rt 7 1t as e totally,i 5 7 fi -;b 11, /ot <- :,,,4 (t! I t :,, }. { + t f 7 { J -,, r,i -- + t" 4 4 i, + a,, / ut --,,, Z L oq 4. -( { dr ,tu.,,/ ,! ,t' ,j; { 1t/ L ct4} -<-a q/ j; ,/tZ ./ (,*; sv-} *.t {. J ,+; g t.,, / t/{ L x,;1E4 L gr,,r )- / m a rket gi t,, t a} a Y b a sicZ gr rsq u 1 1s r..,, ! = proportional /, ; t Direct vote-r6 O.,i &,-t system<--lh ,! ,,/r! C) ,l' -+ well i q {. ,fJl U*-i i,,;, lacunasL,v i,/.vfsystemTrr/,-rrepresentation -t! tl ni :$7 ;f J t e rv, xand good, otherwise d irect vote technocrats u: -lv p Lv t lg-ls it-i,A L,ltech nocrats se lect'. Jl Jt t-i j r j L lt q r e, t ctt f rl *' r! L :t }ta le n te d e- o, s4 L v I e ct,: =i - / { -,i, 4 -. ise I e tt JV,t /., UiLr; votes 15, 18 or 20 4 tech nocr atsl ti L xdir ect votes e i ght qti { e)t :,Un 7-.O{uf ,,, 4 Li r1ul xL,I Lgate L L r,, !.- u{ 1ju-r -gr L n, {tf ,+ir#tecfrnical assistance ,avr,ul1(--orlzid qin,*;:vt,rJt)t:.,,ttof i,.,,,t) technocrat, ladies and ei LProportional vote system-+rrv- tt'b, lTystemlt f L i sy ste m f m i n o ri t i e 5 v s1s .:,, Z m i n o ri t i es 4 / + Q tt. 6 4 sdt -, - i-'" L, (systeml/n minorities zg x n.{t !.-Jt -D -(ti -lv -ad,u.discriminatio Uv.L =i 7 g , * Lcandidate +t LY. { minorities4t ( ; v.,,' &! t -.,1 uf,d i rect elections.jx g,n,: !c-,3,c-jn{,separate representation + Lr;tst d 7.t;i {.,lpromoteq )? : :+/ 1.t t *E{=i,'r Jvz'tf 4in l7d-H.,'/;E S t J(s rgd a,Jf -4"'t 44O\, I -;".et,eLxO,) r,,),,/f ,,irv7j"j,Z 4-4LiL/)vzr+,-f ,,.,t'f U, iiL t y )= O4t Ut it Li L) {Ou-L.fe ) u t, ) : / ?* -, tt r, Di,t L sala ry J 1C : d .t L * rt: ,!,d, o xv i quor um c } L r u! o,7,i S "- 6,/, -,.,,, - i n,{,! er ! / rt,i, Q -t q e 1 t n a v 6, ;t t d i x,J,g. ; /', L x /-, {r -,. 6 s! -( f ,/,)g,- 7 { - $ fi -,u 17 b 6,i *lx{blatantly'.f itperksand privileges and salary etc.,ltlnr,,J,r\,Oxlt<--:,t) -Li :OA r { i },! r',{;7 t 1su,,-, itt, H -i J j ;i 17,, {system/..- 4 t lt ;t J:t, jri tt )rccommendations-rL /-,=h =i:4f ,'V {.* d f , rl,rje fi! i ./,,, ui' ;ir st,, /tf t?,! ex;sti n g systemid r " -i, - f -u n jl .- s 4!. z- r L F, L i lr;-,i? {,! tv..,?,t = = :s( -?b'4, /,/, -- f /-,=b. ar,i,rrdiscussion and debate,.$,,9-loxd uncf ?s=h,af ,',f ,/,* t ef f o rt./,l,t, r * v c-, n j gl t.,,t { . -, I - +!' r,* tltri J$ I e, { vi +, sl -W ot / 7 ; S loL cream and Af ;,iirltt-tS'-r-'/-rnain purposetr,.rjg,/discussionr: )o,t)L=i,4S1 Ithink this is the main ,dv.ZLfinancially corruption'f,.-',"Jv.transparent L,iLfinancial corruptionl -f i<.-6,t,tt'.--llrd ,f'orcrux of the matter' then of course this is a TviLlg)*;;b,--Tnaturallyi '-,:ii'$,!+',1'/f\;v'rlv" place where you get a status symbol and you get some benefits out of that 1 L L/multiplY €-t,,tLjtvalueJz l i ;', ;'.:'7'3v but other than that 2)/ i;rrl)a,/,f ,/t will not like to speak too much on this-viir,rFefforts r o:l leadersh ip,.E' ! :'.',r i / L nomination i Jt !Y( -v-t )',V lparty + - + .-V system (open voting L ,tt,;3 c i rl*'r irr ,,rLi,,( House ', 'i { tlt/ ,q LxlC votes,n sj L xry' B votes,,i L r,.f' A votes -d'err i i x electronic priorit ies a nd a fo rmat ca n be devise d ;d u {tf eleclr o nic=-r a-'v L ;'' ; } x cleartr't 1 viulrat least Nationa| Assemblv-(rg .,,.; rl;'{L/open--to? ,/,,: +vbenchmark.{r;[ ;r,,,because they have to 8o to the publicd nv( o:L){eettvls know mostly that benchmark is never lhere,it +tai!,?Lt;{ -,r-\'r/f qt!'*,,fyrtwhether direct buying of votes, advertisement '7-vxb) by the system of open House direct voting or electronic voting/ort-r1f)t{6 -ui{/cleane=,iL ttt)t t B t v r tl Jv + /, ?logic t t 1'J L or4 3 v v L i', i,, r 7-, {t,i i ".; ") -h equal,,)u.*al7tv. - tl) ttt -r' 4tr,h.+equal representation u('it^l {<-important ji, c -+ r;representatione/"rJr,,i Ut Ligv*'t./ tt c-- ut J./ (i' a-iu r representation and by true L)ltrue representative of the province;"i - -(;r!.>ttlttt:,/ gt/ Lgb,,tUt-idomicileaU!,-/representative I mean that not only domicile (St;1i-rJ,i,J,tt,CjS'l,Lg,,x,)t,-,,(gLtulthey should be true in the sense.e/gi {r-so that he should be a true representative of that province-'xtu:.,(letlt .c- i ur-' ur: b e n ch m a r k w h et h e r h e r/n o m n atei,{ I i i + i I +v i t{ ;t'r a ri, ( representation )i Jirepresent that province or not -.,v {' Ai i n r{ -(Lu xmtsmatchr,v r L', 1it 7, dnect voti n g-(r3 i J s i S' ;r ;f, sE .- 6,t /{t ? * I -'+. =' , re p resent ation l,,t<- provi n ce-w ise ll x qg 6,',t ,,t =- i f r !;f €'L t .,i i3 /o3 n(Lr;r.,,tsriLt to,L.ir,]efirrJ/1Lvyt,lvitfl-\)1,,tttLF,4-t',/jLutirtt/,,,, lamtalking.!f ,tVfft/'.-r1l/t t'Jt,ttqLptgf-f-,r r"gt.,,tS,iiot/0,t.-gw.( punjab, 'jrleleclion would be completely, entirely very very difficultlt/Srof that will become a much more difficult ,;viLg'i.{t {t--Ltu{{ar,--,rry who has no tJ'i(1,/,l4election then even the National Assembly elections. street power whatsoever, would never be able to make it. Whether, I have make some contributions here or not that my Allah knows and the thing is ,.{ y q,! cont,ibution if ;'r u: * L i l L t J 4 Lt, i+ 1r f ;, f ou"r, whethergood or bad. At the same time, lwill never be able to make it for J the National Assembly because I do not have that clout, I do not have that sy slemir t !\),1, d rv { S r -t L v x diff icuftd',,t i { L +{ str eet powe r wi t h m e, ffact--tttevx,.f *4'6;',t,t-ftfinancial corruptionef Jt,,t ,,t tl r J { + v n r * ),.>'/. 1, } J V } vt pr ovince L )h .r tt ----+ rl rV Zf ,/ E vt.,rGLlL,/J,y' 6-0{Sria.rltgtbuyingof vote becomes very very easy gLl,,f show of l,-,1,,( -{,,r-U4l{-tfreasonsfparty leadership ', ,,* ,.* /priorities{t, Z and 3tA, B*ia-electronic systemd/r' t,'t(Lv xhands at least this House will be known is a very ve(y t't(L'e xl menace -) L d i t'rt, -rinrecommendation 4' ,Jz . ! ,-,* C ,f 4 Z y',clean House. -+,>.,, r { L./ /. v t ) i cr iterion( tech nocrats iy -Ly y' i --1 L L,ftranspa r ent r:i {;n,af' ljtc.-criterion r(Technocrats {L,fspecify $ O ',!,1,!+f-6,0:v,>t so that a technocrat should really mean in the term of technocrat a:,:7 -[i,r,politician 4t-q4f /'J,4.{gt/i4luJ that he has that basic knowledge Technocrat should be the one who should be -.-j/(ctritcE;uf,technocrat that will create ,rbackgroundJt(Sr,,rrable to make policy and statements l, thank -(Lvnr4tf .,,r..,8$i1anh<--{.,/another sort of strr in the whole thing. ,-.,vr.-f/-you for giving me this opportunity and also for holding this debate L /4 {4'6 !,-,1t,o,,1 L,.f,,t fitZ L,Jt L *i lt L,v, L,tiy,.r r =?6.( +{i> + { Thank you. -t! n}.?fiJZ o".,,t Jt6,u n "),-(,9 t4 loQ --,vLv,3.--P ,/.:4-b. ir, )r s - - - -A - !?,! vi:., e Ur it Taj Sahib, you have spoken last time. -u.Jt-,,v\u,l ?-,-b. Senator Taj Haider: I have spoken but because a reference was made towards reserved seats in this system. I wanted to clarify that. because certain philosophical points were L',./tt ft1,: t , i ( i - + 6,, x Fr excelle nt J't . I $, t o! i" f tt t / E 'j-.-,,g =h, " t v i n co r p o r ale - ; M o n ey arlli{t -( x i t *',:)-' J,5 ul J L J,-/ J -z r) rd,f t,r.? t -( x vl e m p owe r p ro p e rl y:ra J i, u" L ; I ;:- J *1 : f-M o ney B i I I ,:./i-gr7*,tot-ui * g.Prime Minister<,-,;ir ltv,i,, -(c-,.8 c)9,*l) J d7 e, proportion (-lt,,Jsv.--, 6 ozt*),tt.,E$tu'c- =i;[gdtr,-.,vi\-u-ril,,-+,J" --,t,ti-tc)di.>t,e.r-<-academic debatei-!*,v,f ?-l.(,-*,4epresentative gne ju ry,,t Lowe r j u di ci a L {1u di cia r y * L q !, Lni r dicia 4t ll r{ ry - i, =i <, iv - gO i 90, a i I Llow e r m i d d I e c I a s s 3 L J ) - v! 4 d,,4 ;' - u-'t'L 4 J \ i'L il -E middle and lower middle L=iJv<)I)L-- iioil 1'{',=i-(J'1,4g}6r go i J f. / t :*'tl i ;r e v': ? rm€d f or ces,: i g'/y-u-', 4 J I Lclass - = 1i i l Lmiddle class A i, u( 04,\ -q 4 i J t Llower midd le class r m iddle class .i-;r5,.Ef amiliesJ otq ctf Ltz s, u(,,tlr;F -u: +,'.I it it;v 6t.,490Q Li ,,t J,j,,u/democracie s .i' l1 ispaces { e f } } *t L r /'',,' nl i.Hd emocracy if ia I I ,,/ rtdt -G Lv tu t u re i" -', i9d y n a st i e s l, 4'r,,)v a mili eslrI St,} s4 Lima rt aws Senate it ,, L S,ultimately through evolution { * i -+ l, ,1, C} tt ga i; rect e l ecti ond n p ow erf ul - t, t {t6OJ,yi i -r<- i . -( -4v 1 Ldi i t)' -( ,,1ev,,I!,i.-::')rtI;iJ{tI Ai-1, ;,,i12,13;,t i{=ii.,1,/,Jt-', ),,i4,5$*i,!,* ' :u ) t v- .,b t l,t p o we r, + j -( -( :: -fut i /. rJ -(,t ;fu , ; i ur --. {. .'l u I h5Oy3O H -i y' ,: ti,y,l lrtltproportion representative '{ si,,-)' ,n1!i 41it -i 2-{senate t t gt t mid d le class ana,i ;f ; - u!,f J i,,t t)- {,),,r,,, ;-, ;(! ;n 2- t : =,i -i - -r2 -LJViJt-,, r ;yif.Jt Llower middle class 15 /o{ (te d,,,.8 -6,.* t! tec h n oc ra t ! i \ ; r,, {, aissu e z c h n oc r zlst gf, /;: yh j ,, ;,i -a € 7 lt t Z. <.- uf r -Q a t,,/o L t) r,, -& * ( ; 6,,, L i / t-, a -g :tr,,i i ;f, Jv -j il v U Z profess io na I classti,J t -\b't,rf a i L o r, tA €,1 t,,A 1- tr, { t !fit,, t ; I t, ; ; - a d ebate$ 7 t< - L x,.{ ef f e ct,k vt,ir - L i v, * J L ;r 6,- 7,,r / )ft a., } = q Proportion -atE v,ladopt g( -r ot,A ( vl 1 - i7 t't -tlr; { Jt r- r.ft,.f -+qt>/.1 7 0 -; L)r t) aif D ioV,.l, +( ) tl3,lrzlrepresentative r?rime Ministe r tttg *,>t tOr;Fr,CMoney Ail lq6 ?v L-i Lutl s.>t6 f 1 ,./ E, ) 1.,,' * I Lv -- -fu * Q4 -- s i L 4./6 tvu./,.t JFvrt ag z,f' u{ J iib,t "- ,oF,t L ot.t'et s processJ r/-4,{,d ;3 } - Z ;v i } at 6,'t L)v,,( c-?volution - -+l v-' 3 . d { ovl ofi sv L s t,,,fr ,.- L' .,Gt L a {vr; C},,1 -ft o/ . u: 6 !4 {,' I { -;i <-, Lipr essur es a i ) { c)r t { +Constitutio na I a mend m e nt la d ebate {t f' 5 {; tL De bat a b I e-+ svi,f ;t t;',,t }1 41 i'{ ; i L2) &)r/y " Gilgit- JL' Jtt -,1 Resol ution irl L o fl -,n ;.( 19 48 ii rr ple bi sc ite d iscuss -r United rrjr,ri a,>,A..1' tt.,u Jq { Jl r. is a part of Kashmir. "-f "Aaftistan I i a t i o n s ta; & z v L,1,,-, u - L,14 L /.,,., uC I a c u n a s - - +rl- {J C'r a es o u t o n iN Thank you very much Mr. Chairman, (aqu-:tf rightof vote {gts( | ;rtS,<-.,,'t - u-1 )te 6 L /t t q rl, 14.{, t o,. i +,.1 = t r, v g t : j:-,*r.2. -.-,v i )v -q vd * -> 6 P tu -,)u 7 st .rr{academic sub1ectun,:2,{r LTits: f-,-h,-.9 -6 ,tt; l' rt1',i rlv .* p ro po rti on ate L t2 2t 7 ;-., t c t U r,Y /L t 6, t )V,'! f / -> / f - tlUJ f; - -. d - a p i ptage tl tOi {'/-,J, l .f z ativ,L I t so u n d s very good. - a,!.t,!, e r ese nta t o n lhtl Lsr('glectionsL j!tt1i L s;/-,.-'6 ttr,i7.>t) lq "i "l-L tel.results': proportionate cq-: :2 {tv I i A - L q,/r n lcandidatei {.-1, / ;r t t q, € L pt Lr L rt tf- < o, o*.' tf z /-' i.fu ,-t vd t L l- i r z- L o r T ;r / 5 ;n j ) r -;.>t {,>,.-.i, - ! {aiu n s( a\Sr 5 {r;f, )V,- 7 - L o ni 7tt + t c *t cfi publ i c pe rcept i o n s t 7-,$ 7 t' tt. -- - x(,fu}',n 4 4t -d 2{ "} r t,,t t gt r tr L f , ; J i c- sf' rt ?{ i-} L J a s* L ,4 L,i4 a -1 &,,t rt u{,,e -- }1' - t t r - L n : : tt V -- ni ; 7 4 ;[ L n :- *v L'>, ),' ) t i, L sfi :.;' -,,3 1., L,' (cwo84i) 1.6 /o6 CW08-12May16 Ashraf 1tlv6:(t6lun{-llLvt;tl4Jtlv|(,/Q/ iu:'i--.?--t.Jt?'----O,VilJu', t c t tt: buY or purchase.,/ I t {'.' } v publicly -. + r'4 -(v / A I Jv--i 4.)' ; r Member of Parl ia ment u-t $ i 6 I ;g r/-',,,t ;[ iaspect : i e i x 1 J e-i, ), :) i pu t :t bilt <-r 2-.4 pa rl ia menta rians mecha nlsm bl icly Jgr I i-V { : "F vt i-./,r -+{';u')'') pow t : r,g' i t* : ! J J *, t / f inancial er i,ta -fa - tt J / -r =,f - +v (,!t ( r b u d geta m a tte rs r r rr / s-t glh sr w is e zg v x z ef f i nanci al rn alte rc L, r ry t n m rs r, t() iT t * L t:,' P t f ina cia I atte -(a *: - +,.d ; ;l,in,,r. 6, it;- 4, ={ < -( c ra I m a rs i P 4J i -3i; ;r, :.,, r $ i,! t> -f f inan tte L' x, i. - 1!1 g ure of Senate Jt 4 L Jt' I -: -Q ;-,7,G t! L,lf t, - - f l.- -,., Art Jten ( , i t v 6' c/.te nu r e d, Jo n d .i,, -,F /,J, 1., { Jv iu t,f rl -z ! a . a,,!,,r -.:. -' Jv , r v u-'} : L {.- fi b 4 L x ! x 5v L L ot )f,+ ) n $, /. -6 le a 5ti ! t a ; / x 4< ;t rl, r t,, r t! j )v ei c,,f I x )v tl i {,1 rt,,,, L rll- $^ l, :t,-l ;, ut L fi t 7,,,r,t 4 i id ign ita ries r.,!a- ,,h €v€ n sometim es,, ;,,,., { Lt, f, s)- 4'f l' x t, t r t! t)-4 at least ,,f,\/;+vt;gapgl,.,v'9-.i--Q,,;:{'6ili4'1u;>t-d4J"td'r'/'"'4 y'' nu r ( L,l, t 4.,y,,t L,,i r. i i, r:'r.' t se nale te e Jv 4. -(t, d,i -.-,rt ),,( Ji " .,,, t,,r t j ;t i L v' f l tt,ti t-l1snu r f rx L s f l,j - n: L xtt J t5' L i e,:v iv C i., " - -v l- /tJ., !- tr,, / o / e-,t; +! J x'4-,.f A i L o' i t! i o x s4"i ;, - =1, / d --,,, - -< -(( t c.- r, :t u {tenu r e - +g, *,./ i.6 ab r4 i rfi fieldsz,t,L gatechnocrats,, xJ) &t,>'. r:,.f, . t'r-itjdirect election t financial experts,,r L e n 1., L u' x r.l',, L o li {' L o n experts L - L o n \ " j.,y,J j u.y' i ndepe nde nt electron-, i { lt phv sically =- 2 -{t f a s,,, c'( a it49 i ,:.& L L it L 'riiryr,t'+{ tgt/ g,* Tvxa(vb t'.o,,,tL,.itravelJ1<-,r t: .i4y' c-,tv-,tt-/pursueic),,,,.-/coordinate.-t o't(t7 r,x rialmostihf6-f' r t /lr av eh,.5 -av r r,!> iv J -] - age f actor, d v efine { eligibilitv f, ; r sr' c.- iw': t r ;d') t i ; {r "t.( $ electron processt:r1,/ iz'-ilug'-transparent ort'i'rrriccoti ntability '+{vy'refine o : ) d i rect e l ect i o n L J4 /t - c.-.: t(9 ., tt €xpensiv erJ,,>t tlj- r +: =z,f''f { + 4 t7 /o7 -t i t,v, t i t, i {, + U, ZLv ufr L- r, r,, L z r) P r tt +,-( ex pe ri e n ce o, J 4 1f' - <- t r, I /. /'1U;o:zr LLtfttttalxbP.,,,{tl,z 6;ftrfti ad,ott,t(Lrl,:teQbv,Lc)'; qe-,/. y',./ dirition -wise ca nd idat es !g-, s: 4 / r 1, l 17 {.,[ ( o * ) 4 c n ; Jl - -- =i - 2 - + llpolltical parties ctt-fiz*,fSr7t,tt.>y{4r;rt,,tc-(domain political party lq'!.6u.f Provincial or National Assembly,Lf a :.>::sEgeneral elections Jl< --h -,P or.,44 r,f ,r4 frepresentatives +r!, ""v6PJ.'"9:gt/'7h Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: Mr. Chairman, Thank you. What is Senate and what is the concept of an Upper House, a House of elders. ls it that we should usurp the powers of National Assembly and the Provincial Assemblies? We are here to legislate. As legislators we are supposed to legislate but all of us want to be councillors, we want to pave the streets and we want to carry out cleanliness in our areas and we want funds for that. We want to have the powers of the National Assembly and yet we are not willing to fight for our own powers. The Senate has unique powers and the purpose of the Senate in Pakistan is of utmost importance because we are a Federation we keep forgetting that, that concept of strong centre and one unit rule that has always overruled the ground reality and the powers of the Senate derives from the federating units and the federating units are protected by the Senate, that is the purpose of the Senate to protect the rights of the federating units, to ensure justice to the federating units, to the great communities which constitute this great land of ours, all the great nationalities which have united to form this great nation of ours. We were a debating club. We have been lolly good old men's association in the past also. I have also enjoyed the luxury of that. lwill also enjoy the luxury of being a debating club and with no responsibility but people do make it dlfference you can and I must say, you carried everybody with you. There is no doubt about it but it was the moving spirit. Somebody who had the right idea who knew about the will powers of the Senate and that is you, Mr. Chairman and within a year we have seen ourselves becoming more powerful. We have seen and witnessed our committees are doing better work. They are now feared by the bad and people have started to respect the Senate because we, ourselves have started to respect the Senate. We, ourselves are responsible for how strong the Senate is or how 18 loB weak the Senate is. lt is the Senators who make it weak, it is Senators who make it strong. The law exists the Constitutional rights exist. All powers that the Senate is supposed to have, it exists but we have failed to exercise that in the past. Now we are on the way, on the road of exercising it You are doing a right thing, you are carrying out studies, you are carrying analysis and you are carrying out debates, you are carrying out national level debates and this is all going to increase our powers and we must increase it because we are legislators, we are not the law breakers, we are not the usurpers We are the fighters against the usurpers. We cannot usurp the powers of other people or the other institutions. We can only strengthen our own and that we can do by proper study, by proper rational reasoning and then by legislation and our financial powers will, insho Alloh, increase to some extent. Then we come to the direct elections, pitfall of direct elections in Pakistan is known. lf I have to contest elections from 3 0r 4 National Assembly seats and if you cannot context in Pakistan one National Assembly seat unless you have 30-40 crores rupees that means there is nged about one or two billion rupees. Where are we going to get it from, I do not know, where anybody, any common man is going to get it from, I do not know' lt will have that problem unwieldy, of course, then it has the other pitfall...... contd.. CW09-12May2015 01:30 p.m. Taj Senator Col. (R) Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi: (Contd ) then it has the other pitfall that we are an emotional nation, we suddenly put a party in power with a huge mandate. If that party gets a huge mandate all over and even in two provinces or in three provinces, in one Province, of course, it rules. Then who is going to protect the rights of that smaller province where that party is in power there, they will go for the party interest, not for the provincial interest. so, we have to look after that and this balance does exist in the Constitution and this is a best way. We know people are getting elected wrth money, by purchasing support. We sometimes laugh it off, some of us think that it is bad, some of us think it is undemocratic and some of us think it is immoral. But mostly it is accepted because in our society everything is accepted. lthink even in the Senate it is accepted' We can set our own House in order, we have the power' The Senate has the power, Senate Ethics committee can exist. lf it is known and it is believed to be with reasonable doubt that someone has come by purchasing 19 /o1 vote, it can go to the Ethics Committee and the Ethics Committee, if it finds him, to have used this unfair mean, it can request him to resign. We can sort out our own problems rn our own House. The'show of hands' system and the secret ballot, that ts the essence of democracy, I don't know, why it is only the strong parties or the parties who have the influence with the police, with the agencies, with the Deputy Commissioners, they want the show of hands because they can exert pressure on the weaker characters and ASP can tell them to vote somewhere in the rural areas and he can be sitting in the gallery and watching that he puts his hands up or no. So, it has the other side of the coin, the secret ballot has always been the best means of election and rt should continue, otherwise absolutely, it is very clear that if it is going to be of show of hands, then we don't need election at all. The strength of the party is known that if a party has 22 seats, it gets one seat rn the Senate, so you don't have to hold any election, they just nominate somebody, you have one seat, you just nominate. So, the show of hands, I personally don't think. We have a duty to the nation, we have a duty to our provinces, we have a duty to our people and we have a duty to the Constitution of Pakistan. We are by age or by experience, we are the mellowed politicians who come to the Senate. We are supposed to keep everything within reason. We can play that role and with that role and we can earn the respect of the nation and also we can earn the respect of the National Assembly of Pakistan. We are already legislating well. Once upon a time, I am witnessed to it and many of us are witnessed to it that a Bill came from the National Assembly and we even passed it but said yes, it went. Now the Senate does not do that. The Senate is awake, the Senate is functioning. lt is sent to the Committee, the Committees are awake. The Committees discuss it in detail and prove everything, sometimes they reject it, sometimes they pass it. So, they are doing their duty what they are supposed to be doing. I don't think there should be a bar on number of Ministers in the Senate because the parties themselves elect the best of the best and they have sent them to the Senate. They have elected educated people, they have elected people from various professions who can help the Government. There might be a minimum bar that not less than one/fourth or one/fifth of the Ministers shall be from the Senate but there should be no 20 l/o bar on the number. lf the Government deems it fit and they want to use their talent whom they have sent to the Senate, they should be permitted to put them into the Cabinet Thrs is one proposal I would like to gtve The other proposal is of course is, I agree that a Province must be represented by its own people, by the nationalities that live and flourish in that Province. So, we can have a menrber from another province lf L0 Members from Punlab get elected from Sindh, then where is the representation of equal representation of the Province of Sindh. So, that is a thing we should look into. At least resident of 10 years and continuous residence in a province should be the criterion, if a person from out of the Province has to be elected. Nobody relinquish his power, the drvrne right, in the Parliaments all over the history of mankind, they have had to fight for their rrghts. Senate must continue to fight for its rights. we have the rrght leadership. we, as the Senators must support the right decisions or the right demands that the Senate has and there is definitely a need to make it more effective part of the Parliament. We have an ineffective President and if we. have an ineffective Senate and a very powerful National Assembly, the whole governance will be lopsided. So the Senate has to be strong and Senate has to be seen to be strong. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman' Mr. Charrman:Thank you. 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I .":2 :/ {I {5'i 1,7 i=i,,t,.f ,*vt;: t,7 Jtf L.',.e ','=ir,4 ti L,;--l at}L.ttri'tvr,ott I LJ,,.-rrtt4rcandidate *,r-$rj,,4 j,';t,,tL ', ' ,.'1 4-il-f /-f Lf d S.'ii r3i t ) (V ,,ru{v0,.,tt1;'tZ 3yQ't!'11 ';n:tj 1tJ't4-.Li+J =i,+tnJ,t/ -lr t (t , t.z j V ) >.t ) rt ). r.. at f ) tt.-,>,, 7 $ 6 ;-,,y L f t <- :, <-' ;fr 1A . -41 4 / k. 1 vE / t r .-? L )= i': L':, : t - -,f - i t,, r,i J t'r e cognize i; ;l:, i s,,/i 1, ;t if ,f Mr. Chairman: Thank you Taj Sahib. This brings us to the conclusion of today's session. g, h on ou ra b le Senators 4 <, ! 6 l, i 1,6 L 1.8 S.e n ators Lgi,sr:,'.,-,6.-19 9,,'; -'ili,+.' r r o nd ,-. .r t.,, ;1. {., Ju, T u e sd ay,,,t {-, {;, ir ;-, -ici r culate I l'M ay izi z',.1 "f, f - t --- Ji ! *. t r.,,r-a g reed * :t t Ct, ;!.-.,t Ldr af t ; r! ; a +g,! -(-Lv =i6!' 27 fl7 So, the meeting is adjourned to meet again on Tuesday at 11:00 A M' and in the meantime the Secretariat will prepare a draft report which will be circulated to all the honourable Members on Monday. Thank you. -+i{ +,i l-! Ldr t.,,t +u{ Banquet Ha ll r6t(L{6r (The meeting wos then adjourned to meet agoin on Tuesdoy, the l/h of Moy, 2015 at-1-lP0 P-.M.) 28 ttg - nEu 7- "4nnex MODE OF ELECTIONS OF MEMBERS OF SENATE Article .59 of the constitution of pakistan, 1973, which provides a proportional representation with single transfer of vote system was adopted to achieve two main objectives one was to have equal representation by all provinces in upper House and to make it a House of Federation while the second objective was to help and recogniz* small political parties in provinces based on ethnic and National identity who can find their place in the Upper House and not be left out. However, same argument was presented 3O0 years ago in 5e Resolution in United States of America, where man), states were represented in Senate having similar system of proportional representation with single transfer of vote. However, their experience was not promising to stop buying and selling votes in election alongwith other drawbacks in that system. Eventually after more than a century of bad experience they decided in 1913 to bring l7e amendment in USA whereby all states were given a right to choose their two Senators from their respective States for U.S Senate on basis of direct votes and thereby a state was divided into two Senate districts based on proportional population. The characteristic of having a direct vote in every province as opposed to present voting system is as follorvs:- 1. Senators should be elected directly by direct populous vote of people in their respeclive provinces. This will give them sanctity to represent the true spirit and vision of tJ.e people of Pakistan. This will carry more weight having elected directly by all people in that province or carving out separate Senate districts in that province. This will make the Upper House a true representative of the people of Pakistan and will enhance its stature in Parliament i.e. true representative institution of people of Pakistan being elected directly by the people with their votes in that province. tt1 -2- 2. Buying and selling of votes is a shocking reality in present system which with bigger Se nate district and direct people vote s will be overcome. Thus a true essence of Democracy will prevail by allowing senator getting elected by direct votes. 3. Direct vote will take Senate to a higher recognized institutional pedestal and it will be easy for Senate to fight its second phase of getting glory its arid power, which is the power of accountability to hold all higher officials of all institutions including president and Prime Minister of t].e country as well as parriamentarians for their violation of moral turpitude, perjury and other serious crimes and thus empowered Senate will carr5r bigger responsibility in selection of top head of different institutions Iike Chairman NAB, Army Chief, Chief Justice and selection of other judges, Ambassadors, Attorney General, surgeon general and others. 4. A strong voice and place of federation is only possible if it has power of peoples' votes behind it. Therefore, Justice Cardozo long time ago so eloquently said that usher a strong Nationalization". 5. In present Senate system, we are neither accountable to our electoral college (Members provincial of Assembly) nor we have an institutionalized contact with Members of our provincial Assemblies and thus there is complete disconnect which cannot be overcome in present prevailing system. 6. Presentty, we are only answerable to our party leader and practically not answerable to our constituency (Electoral College) and thus there is no oversight of our Electoral College for our performance while representing our respective provinces in present system. .(- 7. ,l*+/(?6 l:ex:t,Y This mcans Scnator can enjoy power of the people if he is elected by their votcs and thus will legitimately prevail in getting its due share in present Parliqment having two House to have Senate public representation in joint Accounts committee and power to vote for passing the money Bill and others. This will resonate with the philosophy of western Democracy where "what matter is I hope and pray that in the leadership of Senate Chairman we will be able to make Upper House a true House of Federation. Azam Khaa Swatif i I li )- A directly elected upper house of Parliament is likely to demand considerable powers and will come at par $,ith the lower house. This means that if the senate of Pakistan opts for direct clections, the elected senators will have similar authority as their counterparts in the National Assembly. The tamers of 1973 Constitution crentd Senate to ensue that there is equal participation ofall provinces in the legislafure and the total majority ofone political party does not undermine the interests of other parties. If Senate is elected through direct voting, this will mean that the representative House ofthe federating units will have more extensive powers. A study in 1997 found that of 58 upper houses of legislature around the world, 17 had roughly equal pov/efii to the Lower House. of these 13 were wholly or largely directly elected.l This shows the importance of a directly elected Upper House of Parliament. Democracy means self-govemance by the people, wherein citizens have the firndamental rigbt to decide how they are to be govemed and by whom. An appointed or indirectly elected uppcr house violates this principle, because this allows a group of individuals to exercise powers without having to explain or justify themselves to the public. When an upper house is directly elected, it will be perceived to be more legitimate by the public, because the public sees their political views directly translated into a legislative b'ranctU albeit in a different way than the lower house. This enhanced legitimacy will help the upper house in perfomring its constitutional duties; whenever the upper house 1 ,Options Coakley, .1. and Laver, M. (1997). for the Future of Seanad €lreann', in The All-Party Oireachtas committee on the constltution, second Progress Report: seanad Eireann. Dublin: Government of lreland. ILL tl position to disagrees with either the lower house or the executive. it would be in a better reinforce its point of view due to the public suppon. friends or In an indirect election, the party leaders will have an incentive to appoint their appointees allies to the upper house, thereby making their decision-making easier. The willbeobligedtoplaysecondfiddletothewhimsandfanciesofthepartyleader.This election' the culture of patronage is against the true spirit ofdemocracy' Due to indirect appointedcandidatewillnothavetodependonpubticsuppolt.Thereforetomakethe senate on the electoral process more responsive, it is important to elect the members of basis of popular vote. in Direct elections enable the voters to exercise zubtle choices which are not available with its wings indirect elections. To wish for the victory ofone party in elections, but clipped,isnoranuncommonfeelingamongthevotersandsimultaneousdirectelections greater choice while of both Houses of Parliament would allow the voters to exercise electing their rePresentatives. in democracy. The Accountability of the members of the legislature holds key importance judged in the performance of members of the National Assembly is by the electors nationalelections,however,thisisnotthecaseinsenate'Thepubliccanmaketheir performance is elected representatives accountable by not voting for them if their etections' the p€ople are not unsatisfactory. However, due to indirect mode of Senate the electoral system more allowed the choice to elect their representatives' To make inclusiveitistheneedofthehourtointroducedirectelectionsinSenate. k"ra tr\&""'----*! Senates around the world - Sdnat llle:,//(r:/Nelv tolOer (Zysen tes around mC vOrlOToAU- SenAI.ntm .)2 t-! S6nat - Senatcs around thc rvorld t4nnet-'F" Aseuerl > Europe & lnlenatiqua! 'lntcrnational , crr:'lish > Senatcs around thc world European Senatcs, Scnatcs around thc world A I*.-ation .: uf EurooeanI :!E- Merch 15 'l'he Senate ofthe Frcnch Republic has hoslcd the l4th mccting ol'thc Association of l'lumpcan Scnatcs, l5th-l7th March 2012. in the l,uxemboury I'alacc. To r cr(r-rxrre' aboul 1l!5 qve,nt On l4 March 2000lhc lrrcnch Scnatc broul,!ir rogcl lr{.r' n:pr cscnli.rlivcs ofSenatcs fronr around lhc world. This importanl event offercrlan opJronunitl lirr rt r.. rvt:rl r(tl('ct:or on hicarncralisnr :tnd its contlibutkrtls !o democracy. The Senate was instntmental in lbunding thc \ssori.iliorl (,1'l-'trl.()l^-arl Scnates. 1lrcse pages providc irrfonnation on hicitrncrrl sYsk'irrs thftrughoul the world. Documcllts r Semtes amund the werld ) lvkp ofrhe world's Scnatcs t.B-i-cEmggljsm-in thc world: thc statc ol'hicrrlrcnrli .ttt totlrrl and thc otrtlook ft,r the ltrlurc Sclectcd sites ) Ofiicial Scnate sitgs ) Site of lhe lnter-Padiamgntary (rIion ) Slte-Stlbg.EarliAtlantary Asscrrbly o l' l hc ;'t.'nclr Spcal iIg Workl r lrlc-sflhe_Id!4ilEy ol lbreign All'girs lnformetion or the mc'eling of Iilth llhrcl, 2fl10 ) lnu!4rcjio! to the cvsnt of l4th March 2(Ix) r &hednlq of evenls l'or l4lh March 2(X)0 r Addrcss by Mr Christian Poncclct. lrrcsidcrt of thc Scnfl!L- ol-thc lrrcnch Reptrblic. inaugrtratinf'. the meeting of Senates from around thc worltl ) Final-S!e!9!ngE[ ofthc r.lclcgatiotts tal' itrii prrn in tlr.' rrrculii:g ol'scrrales liom around thc rtorld, adopted on Tuesday l4th March ?000 ) Summary account ()l'lhc Procccdinils; eio$at-fdav Second halfdav YlV20rc l0:31 AM I of2 l'orum ot the World's Scnates - Salat lilc:./ro:/New tblder (2yForum ol the Worlds Senateso/oAG S€nat.htm tLq ,Aonex-oG" S6nat - Titre dc la page &queil > Europc & lntcmationa-l > S6nats d'Eq-ropc - Sinatldu-Mp.ude > l'orum of thc World's Senates l'orum of thc World's Scrrates I] tCn MLll{ALISM AI{OiIND 1'rll1 WORLI): POS I'I'ION AND PROSPEC'TS 'l'he dccision l() bring logcther the Prcsitlcnts of all thc Senates arrd Second Chanrbers ol'thc worldl(1'r lbr the tirst tinrc in the spring of this millennium year was not rncrcly thc rcllcct ol'a desirc to celcbrate a symbolic dale with appropriate solenrnily. In lhcr. it ibccame inevitablc given the significant resurgence in bicameralism lmongst conlemporar? Parlioments. 'l'his obscrvation stcms lirrrl a number ol'objective and sinrple facts: while some 45 courrtrics had a twecharnber legislaturc in the early 1970s, today. this number lras riscn to 67. Morcovcr. nrore than a do7,en nations are cither considering the crcalion ol''1 sgna1c2l'.) ol have alreadl takcn such a dccision and are in the pnrccss ol'cslablislr ing an upper lrousc.i(*) Far fium bcing an "anouraly", bicuncralism is rrow thc parliamenlary systeln runder rvhich a lrroad rna.ioritv ofthc sorkl's populations live. lt is also the system adopted by thc world's ucalthiest nations: ot'thc fiftecn countries with the highest gross dorncstic product, otrly two - thc l)coplc's llepublic tl l" China{l*l and South Korca - lravc a ruonocamcral Parliantcnt. Givcn thc l'ircl thal. in thc 1970s. [ricanreralistn appearcd to bc in dccline, as cvidcnccd h'thc Scartlinar iiln nations'dscision to abandon tlre systcnr. and. more irnpo(antly. givcn tltc csscntial cotnplcritv of tlrc bicamcral syslctn over its monocanrcrirl cottntcrpitrl. what has spurred this rcccltl rcstrrgcnce in bicamcralisnr'J l'his was thc issuc tfiat dclcgates at lhc f'ontnl ofthe World's Senates. hcld in Paris on l4 March 2000. untlcrirxrk t<, it,ls,,crJl''. l-'irstly. ir nral' lrc ohsclvcd that, historiclll;', bicarrcralisnr has fulfillcd two cssential rolcs: ()n lhc onc hand, that of n:prcsenting the federated statcs of federal nalions. rvith :r nolahlc csutnplc bc'ng provided bl Unitcd States Constilution of 1787: ancl or thc othcr. that ofsharing political porver to thc benefil ofa social class whosc prc-cnrincncc has becn challcnged b1'social cltange: suclr is the case ol'thc l.lousc ol' I'.ords rrnder tlrc t.lnitc.l Kingdom's collstitutional nronatchy. Although lhc {irnncr Qf lltcsc trvo nrodcls h:ts sttrvivcd and tnaintaincd its ral.son d'ttrc.thc sccrrrrrl has cotnc trnder rc'vicrr'. lbr equally obviotls reasons : aristocratic chambcrs arc thrcatcncd qtrite simply bcc:tuse the sociological realit)' they oncc embodied is rlisappearinl'. It is tlrLrs.clscrvhcrc ll]al \\c nlttst scok thc cartscs ofthe current rcxutgence in bicamernlisnr nnd rrc consider thal lhesc:rrcas are - and this list is nol exhalstive - thc firlklvirr3: lof13 511812016 l0:29 AM torum ot Ine lryono s senates - Scrat lllc:///tr:/New foloer (lrlrorum ol me WOrIO S 5enates'/oAu- Senal.nEn tzS I without neccssarily sceking to embrace fedcralism, many of ihe world's nations are pursuing dcccntnliotion policics which justifr an indcpendant rcprrsentation at central lcvcl. and bicamcralism is the only system appropriate for such contexts; t many slatcs arc now cnrbarking upon I prooeis of dcmocrrtisation or of conrolidrtion of thc rulc of lew which rcquires thc involvcrncnt of all compo[ents ofthe nation. sometimcs in situations where thcse constituents are not inclined to parliciparc: thc bicameral model assumes this cohesive rolc and acts as a guarantor ol'stability in the transition to domocracy; t other states -- or sonrctimes even the snme ones - having inhially established a single-chambcr systcm. havc realiscd its Iimitations and evcn its risks. insofar as such models may bc pcrceived as having bccn "imponcd" without sufficient considcration for local realitics: the diversilication of rcprcsentation brought about by the establishment of bicameralism enables a prooeu of rerppmprietion of the prrliamcntary systcm that r€spccts national circumstances: ' in othcr cascs. bicameralism is ncccssary as a modcm mcanr of cnsuring lhe seprration of powcrs without which a society has no constitutional basiq6(1) and in this. it is particularll' clcar that thc development of majority-rule systems (systems whcrchy tlrc clcctc'd majority and govemment are onc and thc same) give legitimacy to thc nccd lirr a sccond chamher which is indcpendent of the lower housc. prc'ciscly bccausc il is not sub.icct to rnajority rule; | ftrrthcrmorc, in thc hroad majority of cases, bicamcralism appears as a gurrrntor of cfficicncy by virtue of is mlc in eahrocirg thc lcgirletive pmcers. '[he growing, complcxiry" and tcchnical nalure of issucs, and the rapid growth in legislation justifu tho cxistcnce ol' a sc'cond chamber responsiblc both for examining lcgislation pnposals ar,.l for rcviewing texts adopted by the lower housc: I lastly, we must not foryct that establishcd doctrine in contempor.r, politic.l philocophy and current thinking in constitutional law offer a means to develop the philosophical hasis of hicameralism which is founded. in a mature political systcm. upon thc nocd to rcprcsent rnan in his entir€ty, that is the homo civicus who holds thc rights rr1' thc citizcn and man socialised by the communities to which he hclong.s or. morc oxaclly. bv the communities which he forms. 'l'his is a vast and lhscinating prograrnrne of collectivc study that must be undertakcn rcsnlurcly but also with humility. for the simplc reason that. at prqsent, no-onc has thc scicntilic basis en'rbling this to be undcrtaken from a purely objcctivc standpoint. I - Tlll,: S'l'RUC'tlJRf, ()l' SI:NA rl;S The stnrcturc ol'senatcs varics considcrably liom one country to anothcr. Methods of nomiution are a lirst clcment in diveruity, although thcsc arc usually based on some licnn ol'clcction (11. 'Ihc numbcr and tcrm of ollicc of Scnatorc are also subject to signilicant dilTcrcnces, although. lrerc too, some constants may exist (2). ln any casc. it is gxrssiblo to dctcct a clcer desirc lo g[arrntcc r bettcr reprcccntation of thc trraion $rough thc crution of a Senate (3). l) Dispenttc nrclhods of nominetiot All thc ditlcrcnt nonrinatiorr mcthotls can bc found within thc bicanrcral system, 2of13 5l18/2016 l0:29 AM lolum oi the Wbrld's Senalcs - Slrnt lii.: ,'(;:/.Nu$, loldcr (l)/l"orunr ('l lhc World's SenaBso/oA0- S€n8t.htm tL6 but elcctk)n is llrc nxrsl rvirlclr lbuntl principlc. u) h'ull! alcdul Settalcs ura in lha nulorit.y:ol'a total of67 cxisting trro-chamber parliantcn'ls. .j() Iravc t sccorrrl charnbcr in rr hich all membcrs are electcd. Out ol'thcsc chanrbcls. I I ;rrc clcclctl h1 rlircct suffragcT(o). ' Llcction h1 inr.lircct sulTragc, usuall,r b1 local authoritics and through the intervcntion ol locally clcctctl pcoplc. takcs place in l(r countries. including South A{iict. Gahon rrnd thc l{trssirtn Fcrlcratirrr,. Ilowevcr. thesc tlrrec stalcs cach have dill'crent rnotlcls ol' indircct clcction. Soutir Aliica has a syslcln of elcction by the pnlvincial lcgislllivc asscrnblics.;r sy"tr)1 also clrosclr bv scveral othcr states. among thcm ,\ustria lnrl l:lhiopil. lt is rrrort comrrtott itt lcdcral countlics. Cabon has a systcnr ol' elcclion by loca, authority rrpresentxlives, conrmunes alrd departnrcnts. Ihis is also thc casc irr France. I"inally. the Russian syslcrn provides for ths nonrinalion t() lhe l;cdcration (louncil of one raprcacntativc from erch of the exccutirc nn(l lcgislrtivc hodics ol'thc rcpublics. lltvt lhckt thcsq arc lhe hcads ol caclt llcptrhlic'. sovcrnmcnl antl assenrtrll' that sit on thc (-ouncil. ln (iennany. rvhcrc a ll'dcral nrodcl prcvails. the reprcscntativcs of tlrc govcrnments of thc I .iintlcr. lhcnrsclvcs nourirratctl by thc rcgional lcgislative assenrhlies. make up the lluntlt'slll. ' 'lwo stalcs (Spain arrrl llcllriurn) currcrrtl-\ implcmcfil a mircd syslrm of dircct 'l atrd in.lirorl (.lcction. hu Spanislr Scnirlc has 108 menrhcrs clcctcd by., direct runivcrsal rulliuuc anrl .19 rrrcnrhcrs clccrcd bl lhc assenrblics of Splin'i scven :rulononr()us rciLions. lhc llclgian Scnates{*) contpriscs 40 mcmbers clected by dirccl rrnivcrs;tl srtllirr:tc. a I clcctc(l bv thc rr:gion:tl cotlncils lnd l0 cixrplcd hv the (rl rncutbcts ()l'!hc li[\l l\\r] llr'()ups. 6,) 'l hcrc irlso crist Scnates that arc parti:rlly clccic c',) liinally. l4 Scnalcs art l'ully appoinicrl. I lowever. threc observatiorts should be madc hcrc. tjirstly. this cruntplc plincip:rllr conccrns lwo tvpcs of Slatc. l'he most comnron lrc countrics rvhosc size antl popLrlation rvottld makc it diflictrlt tojustifr twt>ticr lcgistrrtiv,i clccliotrs (ABtiett:r. llahanras). l-css comtnon- bttl still (lanrhotlia). signilicarrt. alc slalcs itr tltr.'proccss r r l' dcnrocratisal ion (Jordan. It should lrc notcd. arirl tlris is a scconri r-crnark. that suclr {ppoilllmelrts arc often subjcct to c()rlr()ls. lltc case ol'tltc Canatliatt Sctratc is sigllilicallt in this regard. Canadian Scnalors ilrc appointcd by thc (iorcnror Ccncral hut on thc advicc ofthe Prirnc Mirristcl rvho ir. itt rurlt. apprrinlcrl hv a chantbcr that is dircctll clccrcd by the pcoplc. I"inal11. ir slurrrtrl be nolcd thal apF)irllrncnt ntay be a transitorv nrcthod of norninalirtn. 3cucrallr withitr thc l'ra,ncrrrrtll ol-a tlclnocrat islltion proccss.')(*) 2) Nunrbcm anrl tcrnr ol olticc Q Wtriuhh' hul gcntrulll' lituitul nunthert lofl3 5tl&l20r6 l0:29 AM torum o, tne wono s lenates - Sc|lat lttcvilu:/Ncw lolder (z)/torum ol the worlds Scnates"/oAu- lienat.nun t27 Without wishing to nrakc any swecping gcneralisations, it can be considered that the bicamcral modcl corrcsJxrnds to asscnrblies with restrictcd numbcrs. lf we put aside thc vcry particular casc of thc llousc of Lords, the charnber with thc sccond higlresl uunrbcr' ol' Scnat(n s is the ltalian Scnate, with 324 rncmbers. liurtlrermore, Senates witlr lcss than ll0 nrcmbcrs arc in the vast nlajority: there are currently fifty-onc. ln ternrs ol' rrunrbefs. sccond chambcrs can be classificd into thrcc principle Sroups: t lhcrc arc ?7 Scnatcs \\'ith l9 mcmbcrs or less. Thesc arc most usLrally. but not always. stiltcs of small sizc and poprrlalion, such as thc ('aribbean islands, for examplc. Scnatcs in Span ish-spcak ing cotrntries oftcrr havc small numbcrs of reprcscntativcs: llolivia. ('hilc. Paraguay. the Philippincs and Uruguav each have respect ivcly 27. 47, 45.24 and 30 sqrators. + a seoond group conrpriscs Scnalcs with bctween 50 and 109 membsl's. l'here are 22 in total. 'l hcsc arc statcs ofall sizcs and on all continents, including: in westem Europc. thc (icrman llundcsral and thc Austrian Federal Council, the Irish Senate. thc l'irst (lharlbcl ol thc States-(;cncral of thc Nethellands and tlrc llclgian Senatc: in Asia/()cr:anil, thc Scnatc, ol Malaysia, Cambodia. Nepal and Auslralia. 'l'hc Carradian and Anrerican Scnirlcs rcprcsent North Amcrica, thosc of Brazil. Colombia an * finally. thcrc irrc l3 Clrarnbcrs rvith rrotc than 109 mcrnbcrs, of rrhorn 6 have betwccn :40 and 279 rucrnhcrs (lntlia. Spain. Japan. 'fhailand- llgypt and Morrrcco). 'l hc thrcc Scrratcs rvitlr tllc rn()st mcmbem arc lhose of Fmncc (321), Italy (:i29)and thc tJnitetl Kingdonr (576 lil'c and hereditarS, pcers). h) Tern ol t{lice Thc tcrnrs ol'ollicc ol'thc dillbrenl sccond clrambers arc also very variable. They licqrrcntly ransc lionr .l to 6 ycurs (4 ycars: 13 chambers, 5 years: 22 chambcrs.6 ycars: l7 charrrbcrs) and. cxecptionally. ola l()nger tcnn: thcrc are two Scnalos whosc tcnns ol ollicc arc tl .,,cars (llrazil and (lhile) and tlrrcc Senates wh()sc tcnrrs ()t ()llicc trc 9 y. cars ( linrncc, Morocco and [.ibcria). C)n thc othcr harrd. only i statcs llavc choscn tenns ofoflicc of less than 4 ycars: Bosnia- I lcrzcgovina (2 yslrs), []ulkrrra lraso and Malaysia (3 years). Finally. onc casc ol lif'ctinrc nomination gnn 66 nsledl0(l)' the House of Lords and onc casc of hcrcditirrv aplxrintmerlt: tlrc ('ouucil of Chicfs ol'llotswana. lor 8 of its l5 mcnrr^urs. 'l lrcrc is orrc casc ol' :rppoinhrlcnl until tctircrncnt at thc agc of 75: the (larratlian Scnalc. Furthcnnorc. in thlcc lcdclal slatcs thc tcrm of office ol' the mernbers of the second chambcr valics according lo thc clecting body: Cermany, Austria and Russia. 4ofl3 5l1812016 l0:29 AM l'orum ol thc World's Scnatc$ - S!.Iitt lr[ (i 'Nc11 loldcr (?)/]orunr t|t the World's Senateso/oAo- Sdnat.htm t)4 4 Puti l rurexwl, th.! iutltossibilit.l' ol li.ssolulitur rul the specifi( role ol lhe Sen tc ltrasidents: tha saor * l'artial'r'olcn al, rvhich ainrs [o clsul'c thc rclative stability of asscmblics and to avoid political hiccups. is licquently uscrl: l4 statcs (Argentina. Australia. Brazil. Czcch llcpublic. ('hilc. l:3ypt. lirirncc- llaiti. lndra. Japan, Mcrocco. Nepal. Philippirrcs) havc cxprcssl.r adoptcd thi: \\ stem. Strictlv spcaking- Scrralcs rvhose mcmbcrs lcplcscnt q()\,clrrrcnts ol stirlc asscmblics or ledcratcd provinces ((icnnarrl. Auslria) shoul *'l'hc impossibility ol tlissolving Scnales is a guarantcc trequently uscd to ensure the stahility antl conliuuit_r rrl'thc Statc: il cxists in thc nrajoriq'ol thc rvorld's natiuls. Naliorral constitrrtions pror iilc lirr a li1rhl r,l tlissolrrtiorr in onlr l9 cascs. including thc llclgiarr. Sprrnish arttl lt:rliln Scrratcs. rhc l:irst (lhambcr of thc Statcs-(ieneral ol'lhc Ncthcrkllds. lhc ( lrirrntrcrs ol'('otutcillors ol'.laparr and Mortrco and the 'l Scnatcs ol Kazlkhslan. haillnd- Ncpirl rtrtrl t Jruguay. Thc rank of prrsidcnt ol'lhe Scnalc is gcncrlllv the scr:ond or lhird most prominont figrrn: in thc Stnlc, bul thc |.olc hc frcqucntlv plays in thc cvcnt of incapacity of lhe llcad ol'Statc lurlhcl illustratcs thc desirc to makc the Senate an clcnrcnt ol' irrst it rrt iona I u(nltinu it\ In lJ corrnlrics. thc prcsitlcrrt of llrc Scrrtc rnal' stand in lbr the llcad of State (Algcria- lkrliviir. ( anrhotlil. ('hilc. tlrc ( zeeh llcpuhlic, Francc. Cabou. Gcrmany, Ital)'. Ko/akhstiro. \'ladaglscar anr' llottr,tttia) lir this list should bc added the countrics in which lltc I'rcsidcnt ol'thc Scnatc is also thc Vice-Prcsidcnt of the Stalc: ln(lia. Lihcri;r and lhc tinitc(l Stat,:s. ln othcr cascs. the presidcnt of the sccontl charlhcr slrrrrtls irr lirr thc ltcarl Lrl statc in ilrc evcnt ol incapacitv of anotlrcr;ruthorilr.: viec-pr('\idcnt ol thc St tc (l'ara-euay. l'hilippincs) o[ prcsident ofthc krucr chanrhcr (llrirzil. l'olantll. liinally'. thc prcsident ofthe Senatc may be callcd rrport to pilrticipatc. alorrgsitlc other pcrsonalities. ()n an aclillg basis: in lrcland rrith thc prcsitlctrt rrl thc l);ril l'lilcanrr and that of thc Suprctrlc Courti in Mortrco rvhcre b-r'riqht Ir(' is a nrcntlDt rrl thc King's (lotrncil. in thc Ncthcrlands whcrc- irr casc ol tlillicrrltics (urdcr-ilrc nottatclr. incapacity. absence of success()t'). thc xiviri sircecrsiott it il ritllcr liv' both chanrbers ol thc States- Gencrrl. 3) licn:rlcs rrnrl lhc rrced for grt'atcr ttptt'scnlnlion of thc Nation's comPoncnts Ons ol'thc rlorl constanl lirnctions ol lhc bicatncral syslcnr is that ol enabling divcrsillcrl rcprcscntiilion ol lltc cttrnpttttents ol socicty itt ordcr lo achieve a 'l'hrc: balanccd pa|liitrrtcrtl rrt -r sl slcrrt. crtlegorics can llltts bc cxatrlinctl: u) Tht trrriloriul ory.utristtlion ol tha na;lotrul Strtlc Such is thc casc ol thc National (lotrrrcil trl l)t'ovinccs o1'thc Rcpublic ot'South Africa. irrrd irlso thc lrcdcrrtliott ( ottncil irr l{ussia. Othcr cxarnples arc thal of'the liedcral ( outtcil ol'l:thiopia whosq tttcttrtrcrs' clectcd [ry thc Provincial (]ouncils' rcprcscfll lhc "Nittiorrs- nlli(rrralitics ()r Pc()Plcs of llre counln " and also that ofthe Brazitiar Sciralc. rcptcscnrirtg lhc lcdclrrtcrl Slatcs of llrazil. It is this rolc of rcprcscntin:l llrc rcgiorral rrrrthorilics thrrl lbrnls tlrc conslittttiorral nilturc of the ll(')' Frcnclr Sclatc lodar. alottrt rr itlt this ol thc scnatc ol'Gabon 5l18?016 10:29 AM 5 of 13 forum ot t|le World's Senates - Scnat - a, lrle:///C:/New lblder (2yForum ol lhc World's SenatesToAG Sduat.htm / ./- t b) The pntfessions, sociul groups or the "life blotul of the N tion" It is thus lhat two-lilihs ol'the nrcnrbcrs ol'tlre ncw Chanrber of Councillors in Morocco arc clcctcd by protbssional bodics and employce reprcsentatives (the othcr cotrncilklrs arc clcclcd by the knal luthorities). Similarly, thc (lhamber of Represcntativcs ol'llurkina liaso, also rcccntly created, is composed of a cartain numbcr of mcnrbcrs clcctcd by thc unions. women's associations, rural associati()ns. ctc. Ihc Irish Scnatc lras nrcmbers elected by the Lrniversities. Moreover. although thcy arc largcly nonrirrated by the krcal councils. the lrish Senaton arc allchoscn orr thc hasis of thcil nrembcrship of a professional body. It should also bc rrotcd that Scnatcs mav be entruslcd thc task ol'rcpresenting nationals thal havc sclllcd outsidc olthcir country. Such is thc case in l;rance. c) The trudilionul clites Africa is a casc in point. lhc clitcs. rvhethcr thcy are "custonrary" reprcsentatives, tribal chicli ()r so on. oftcn lilund thcmsch,cs excluded fnrm power at the time of 'l indcpcndcnce. hc corrscrlrrcnccs of llris crclusion are now bcginning to emerge in the lirtrrr ol'social rrt political urrrcsl. lb rcrnedy this, many Ai'rican states are now considcring lhc crcittion ol'a Scuatc tha( includes traditional clites. 'l'hc Chamber of Rcprcscntiltivcs ol'llurkina lraso tlrus has 22 rcprescntalivcs from the differcnt 't religious corrrnrurritics as rvcllas l'ronr thu'\raditional community,'. hc Council of Chicls in llotsrvantr also plavs thrs rolc ol representing thc traditi(nral chiefs. Similarll,. whilc it has ror vcl colne to tiuition, l,ebanon - shattered by ycars of civil war' -- has prrrvidetl lbr thc creiltion of a Senate in the Tael' A,creements, seeing iu this a rlcans ol' rcprescnline and protectinu its various rcligious conrmunitics. II - 'l't l l) I'()Wl)ltS Ot'SrlNitIl:S l'or thu purposc ol'sintplicit_v. rvc shall distinguish betu,ccn legislativc (l) and extra-lciriskrtivc porvcrs (2 ). l) l.egislativc pou crr: tlrc ntodcl oI cgllilrrriun bicameralism With rcgard to lcgislativc Jxrwcrs. that is, the powcr to dccide on thc content of laws. thc drxninant rrrodel at international lcvel is tlrar ofcgalitarian bicarneralism. lhis is not. houcvcr'. a qcrcr.ul rulc and thcrc are exceplions. a) Egalitoriun hiconrcrulisttt: a generoll.1' rt'i espread model. The rnajority ol'thc workl's Scnatcs havc lcgislativc powers equal with those ofthe lowcr assemblv. Wc will cxanrine, in lum, the threc main conrponents of legislativc powcr: tllc pou,cr of lcgislativc initiativc, thc grwcr of amcndmcnt and the capacitv ltrr dccision rhurr cranrirringr tcrts. ' With lcgard lo thu powrr oflcgislative initiative. 33 Senarcs enjoy this privilege in flll. Again, this ligures docs not includc Senates which, while having a general righl to initiiltc lclrislatiorr. lind it rcf'uscd in maltcrs of linancc, likc lhe lower chanrbcl incidcntulll-. 'lhis rcstrictirlrr with regard to ljnancial lcgislation is collrnon alrollg AnqloSaron nations. in panicular in thc Wcst Indics and the Caribbcan: Antigu:r- Ilahantas- llarbados. llclize (fiscal restriction). Saint Lucia, Trinidad arrd'lirbalro. (-anadl antl Ausrr.rlia also fall within this modcl. as docs the Czech llcpuhlic. 6ofl3 5/t8,l20l6 l0:29 AM torum ot tlre World's Scnatcs -:Sclitl lrlc (;:'Ncrv loldcr (l)itorun) ol the World's Sr€nates%Ao- Sanar.htm /Jo On the othcr hlln(|. ()nly sir uppcr charrrlrcrs havc no powcr of'legislative initiative whatsocvcr (Allerirr. l'ithiopia. lriii. l.csotlxr. Ncthcrlands and lhailanrl). ' 'l'hc pr)rver ol arrrondrrent is litlh rccol_rniscd lbr 40 uppcr lrouscs. 'l'he prcccdinq rcscrvc lclatinu to thc par(iculrrr arca of linanccs also applics hcre. At this tinrc. atrd *'itlrorrt pre'irrtiicc to thr spccial casc ol'consuhativc assemblies. thcrc arc only thlcc Seralcli that harc rro porvcr ol' anrcndnrcnl: ('ambodia. Kyrgl zslln and lhc Ncthcrli,rrds. ' Il'rvc look at thc rlccisiun-rnaking pr;ucrs of thc Scnatcs tlrrring thc procedure for cranrinirrg parlianrcntirn bills it can bc notcd that- in a largc nunrhcr of cases. thc Scnato's agrccurcnl is rcquirctl lirr thc linal adoption ol'thc law. ln rhis respccl- bicarncralisrn is crrrrrplctcly cgrrlitariun in l9 statcs- ln thcsc countrics. the legislativc poucrs ol'thc lrro charnhcrs arc slrictlv idcntical. Such is notably the casc ol Auslria- lbliria- llrazil. ('olombia. Iiomania. Switzerland. ltalv and the Unitcd starcr. A frrgucnt variant of this cgalitarinn bicamcralism rcstricb thc equality of powers to ccrt in arc s. Srrch is lhc casc irr Gcnlany. \4rerc the agrccrncnt ofthe Bundcstirl is rcrlrrirctl lo ixkrpt bills rclatirrg to thc l,lndcr or thcir sphcre of compclcncc. ln Srxrtlr Aliicrr. lhc Nliionirl ( ourrcil of l'rovinces has a rcto over all bills alll'cting llr(' ln'(rvirecs. uhich carr onh' bc ovcniddcn by fl trvo-lhirds ma-i(,rih ol lhc Nltiorr;rl ,\rscnrbh. lhc ltclnian Senatc has powcrs idcntical to thosc o! lhc ( harnl,cr ol'l)cPu(ics in lir:rr rucas: lirndamcntal instituli(nal issues. inlsnrationirI trcllic\- c(x)l)cralion aqrccnlcnts r-(lwccn thc lbderal Std1c. the communitics antl rcl.ions. und larvs rclating to organisation of thc.ludiciary. ln Francc. lhc .)urralc'\ irll.r'ccrnsrrt is esscrrtial litr constitutiottal larvs and organic laws relating lo thc Scniltc. ln rrthcr rrords. Soratcs licqucntlv play thc dual role of providirru instilrrlirrnrrl stahilitv anrl |rcserr'ins thc nalion statc. Anothrr variant is lhzrl nt rlc.futto agnlinrian hicnmerolisnr. In this hypothcsis, the loucr chanrlxr lrrs- irr 1irinciplc. thc possibilitl of rcsolving in lhc last r€sort but llris porvcr is rrcutr liscd hr' thc .c 'I'wo r:rccptions sht,rrkl hc nr)tc(l: thirl (rl'l)lraqu:tY- Iirstll. rvherc cilhcr chamber may hil\ c thc "lirst rr ord" l)r(l\ idc(l tlrat tlrc (rtlrcr chamber docs not ovclridc this by a lrvo-lllirds rn;rjoril',. (irttrctscll. in Al,tcliir. rvhcrc llrc National ('outtcil passes bills votctl bv tlrc-l)coplc'., Asscntlth lrttt can onlt do so hy a thrcc-qtlarlers ma_joritl ol its rttcttth,.'ts. Ovcrall. lhcsc tl'trcr: v:triattt: ol tltc satn,: rrrrxicl applv to 3l chamhcrs. Amongsl thesc- I tl l'ravc ptrrr t'rs thll irr[ strictlv c(1ua I to those ol' the lorver chatlrher. 6 have similar puwcni lccogniscd in cc,lain atcas. and 7 havc the possibility of overlulnirr1r. tr1'qtr:rlilictl ttttiorilr. tllc "last uorrl" gmtttcd to tlrc lorvcr house It shoukl. ll(,\\'c\!r'. hc ttotcrl that rrlrile cgalitarian or qttas i-cgalitarian bicanrcralisrl is rrror-c cotrnttrt lltirtt gtrtcrallv bclicvcd. it esscntially flpplies to the voting trl'legislrr(iorr in tlrc slrict scttsc. ()n thc o{hcr hand. it is l?rc itr matters relatirrg to the u()\ crnnlcrt':i political rcsPorrsibilitl': fcrv Scnalcs can tlismiss a govcrnllcnt. lhis plltclicc tcllccls n tlcsirc to glivc Scnalcs a rolc as gtlarantors of political :tlbilitr. ljrrrthcnltrrt'c rrlirilv Scrlillrs citn only sanclion thcir Sovcrumcnts insoliu:rs thc)' c\r'tcisc tltcir tnissir,rrt rrithin thc franrcrr' 5l1812016 l0:29 AM 7 of l3 ol tnc worlos SenaIesToAU- Senat.mm rorum or ane r,Yoflo s Jenales - :!cll:ll l5l rrc:/,/\r:/l\cw rolocr tJ)/l'oruln b) Exccpliuts to lhu nuxktl ' Irirst e\ccption: cerlaiu uppcr cl ambcrs arc cssentially consultativc. In this case, tho Lrppct cltartrbcr docs not participatc. propcrly spcaking, in voting a law but adr iscs on its contcnt. llrcsc asscnrblics arc rarc.'l'herc arc fivc itr all: Burkina Faso. ('arnbodia. lrgypt. Slovcnia an(l llotswillta. The particular casc ol thc llldian Scuatc should bc mentiotred. which has powers equivalcnt 1tl tlrose ol'thc (llrarlbcr ol' llcprcscntatives, exccpt in affairs of finance. where it has a pLrrch'consttltativc rolc. It should bc addcd tha1. colltra['to popular beliol. ir corrsultativc assctubly is not trcccssarily a powerless assernbly.'fhe level of irs intcatatiorr l'ithin thc ilstittttions. dnc to thc quality of its recrtrilnrcn! its action and its sphcn'ol inllLrcncc tnal'. in fact' compensatc lbr it bcing disqualifted from thc prcscriptivc: ptocetlurcs ol lcqislativc tirnnulation. ' Sccond exceptiol: rcslrictions of lcgislative power that result in specilic limita(ions on lhe ahility l() pr()p()st or' rlntt'nd lcgislalion. T his gencrally rclates to financc antl/or liscal lxrlicy ((iaribbcart, Australia. Canada). In otlrer cases. financial inadmissitrility ol' thc t)'pc tncnlioued in article 40 ol' the French Constitution is ltrc casc ((iabon)ll(*) lrinalll'. the last cxamplc to be rrsntioned is the rcquilcrrcnt li[ tltc srovct'nnrcnl's app|ovll in matlcrs rclating to budgctary affairs (Kazakhstirrr). It slroultl. ltorrevcr. bc notcd lhat thcsc diffcrcnt rcstrictions vcry ollcn appl:., lo bolh ('hanrhlrs. . fhc last cxccptiori is thc ;xlssibilih'ol thc lirst chnmbcrs to decidc in thc last resort. lhis "lasl rvottl" rllav bc ttt)rcsl.rictc(l or rcslricted. ln tlrc forntcr case. it can easily bc applicrl on tht solc initiati'r'c ()i'thc lo\\'cr house or thc govcnrnlcnt. ln the laltcr it is subiccl lo':ttirtttrls. Thc lasl word, applieirble in all alcirs- rvithorrt prcjudice howcvcr to constitutional affairs. is rluilc rarc. lt crists itt ()nl) tcn slates. including Spain. lrrancc. Poland. Sencgal. tlrc ('zcctr l{cptrblic- (iuiron and lrcland. What is morc, in sonc of these diffcrcnl statcs thc rlcadlirrcs itnposcd lbl implsmcnlation of this last rvord tend to make it a kirrd oI'tcnrporarv vcto |br tlrc Senatc. In any casc. thesc dcadlincs can seriouslv linrit ils scopc. lhus in l'rancc, usc ol'1hc "last wot'd" can only take place after trvo or tlrrcc rcading,s in cach cltambcr, otr the cxpress dccision of the govcnlnrunt :rnd alicl thc lirilurc of a comnritlce of the tr,lo assemblics (so-called "Joinl Cornnrittce ol'lirth Ilouscs"). which is assernbled to iron out lltc differences belwcerr thc Scrtatc irtrrl tltc Natiorral Asscrtrhll'. lt should also be nolcd that this last wold olll]' rclatcs io nicirsulcs r'ill rrndcr disctrssiorr. which is gcncrally a very small plrt ol thc hjli crantitted. 'l'hc last word rrral, hc litrtitcti h1 :r rcs{riction in thc arcas to rvhich it can be applicrl. Anrl it shoLrld bc notctl hcrc that it is rarc to sce it c)itcnded to constittrtional allirirs. lt rrrlv also bc rcstricle(l hy its use bcing dcpcndent upon conrlilions of nrajor'it1'. A ecltailr rtunrbcr ol'statcs thus inlpose thc condition ofa two-thirds nraioriL\' \ ()lil in ordcr lo cnablc it to prcvail over thc other assenlbly. ln any cusc, tltc "last trord" is orrlv thc linal stagc in a proccss ol'devclopment of ideas anrl tcrts: llrc grat lirt rttctrtarr "shLrttlc"(or lnovemcllt ol' bill bctween two legislativc asscnrblics). lhc cxislctlcc ol'this alonc is a guarantce of irnproved legislativc prodLtctiort and ol' a l.rcttcr cotrsidcration of tlre compnrrcnls of the national conrrnunitl. ll firct- sitvc itt cascs o{'political major tcnsion' thc last word is a darrgcrorts illslrrrrlcnl rrhich itrvcnttttcttts and first clratnbers appll' sparingly' Francc is a casc itr ir(lirlt: ottl ol'1-754 lau's passcd sincc 1958' 3.456. or 92 lYo, 8ofl3 5l1812016l0:29 AM torunl Ol thc World s SCnatCs - Scrt:lt , lc (,: Nur\ l(rdct (-lJ l (nunt World's t3L. _ - ol tltc SeoatesToA0- Sen .htm wcrc tlr!' ,iuil ()l c(ll\cnriu\ llcl\rc(.t lhe i\!(, ch rrbcru. In 19911-99- cvcn whcn the majoritics in thc lrrtr l.rcrrclr clranrhcrs rrcr.c dilTcrcrrt. ovcr halflhc lnrcndmcnts passctl lry tltc Scrralu rrcre rirtilicrl bt'tlrc ){ational Assenrbh. 2) })xi rt-lcgislirlir c lxrrvcrs: Srn:rlrs:rs llrrirrlnlors of inslilrrtional sllbilit]' Aside Iirxn passinu larrs arrrl inrokinu tlrc sorcnrrrrcnt's political rcsponsibility. Senatcs arc r,crr licrlucl:tll conlcrred c\tra-lcgislativc porvcrs rvhich rnay be grouF-(l un(lcI lhrcc l)r(]itd c:llcllot-ics. to consolidatc thc (lonstitution, to participrrlc irr hiqh lcYcl n\)\t.r'llrllcnt fll)l').!,ntnlenls antl to cxcrciscjudicial powers. a) SualA us t'o,t::t;r |iar tt! llu ri:t,tor.', Sen:ttc\ arc lic<1rrr.'rrtlr corrccivetl as ploritlirrl inslittrtional stahilil\'. (;ivcn these coDdili()ns. il is r)()t .ull)risirll lltitt ll l:trg.c ltart ol'thc conslituent porvo is tlevolved to thcrrr Irr lhct. lhr'r grlrn rrrr inrlxrn:rlt nrlc in lhis arca. and this irr trvo ways: 'l firsth. irr rnost clscs lllc\ t)irrticipiltc irr eonstilulional revisions. hcir approval is gencralll' rc(luilc{l li)r u rcvisiol trr lrc litraliscd and nittional conslitutions frcqucntll rctlrrirc a scnirtoriitl \,otc h\ ir tlrralificd nrajoritl. lbr thcil ilnrcndmcnt: secolrrllv Scnatcs lrar plirr :r rolc irr llrt ar'ca ol constitutionol scrutinv, cithcr by appoirrt irru sornc ol rlrc clrrstitrrl i, 'rr:r I .jr:tlncs or hcinu ablc to initialc th is scruliny. 'l'hc lppoinlmcnt. ulbcit partial- ol cor;stilrrlionll judgts bl lhc Senatc is very widcsplcad. lo lalic brrl orrc crirrrrplc. all tlrc tricarncral siltcs in wcslcm Ertrope that havc a corrst ilrrtional corn usl lhis nrallt()d. In l.rance. thc Prcsidcnl of the Senalc rrppoirrts J ou! ()l'9 lrcnrl)c[\ (]l llt!' ('onslitutiorral ('ouncil. in ( icrnrany the Bttttrlcrtitt apPoinls \ ottl ol' l(r. in Auslrii: tlte l ctlcral (-ouncil puts lonrard names f Thc srrhmission of ir cusc t{) llrc ('}nrtitulion l ('ourt by thc Sgratc is also fairly widcsprcarl rrrorrrxl llrc \\('rl(1. ll is p:rttictrllt'l1 c()nlmon in \vcslcm xnd castern Europc llosnia. l\)iilr!1. llrc ( zcch lteprr!'lic. l{otnania. llussia and Slovcnia. but also rrrtrclr lurthcr al.cltl: Allcria- llr':rzii- ( :rlrhotlia. Jordarr antl Morrrcco. h) Powars fl ttp1'uiit:ttu'ut ol Stuc irlfit,r,ls Asidc rioru rrppoirrlirr1' c(nrslitnli()nirl .irrriircs. Scnatcs plat an irnporlanl role in dccidirr,-: lriirlr-lcrci ,ro\clllrretlt iil)poiIlior(rlll\. Ortcc again. in this arca. thc chief concclt, is to s:rl..trlrrrl lritli()ti:li 5t:ririlit\. lrro principal praclircs may be dislir4tr r ishcrl: orr rlr, ,,rrc hiurtl. rlilccl rtr;;()inltlrcnl lnd otl thc olhct. it r',:qttirenlent lbr thc \enalc's aqrPl.,r r;l irl rrplxrirrtrrc'i!\ I|l(lc h} othcr atrthorilics. * I)irtct appointnrcrt b) llrc Sclrirtc ()ccurs in thiflecn slalcs: this oliclt rclates to thc pp()intnlcnt rrl':;,rrirrr ci!il \er\irrrl .. rlipkrutats. nrilitarv B)sts and ntagis(rates. -llrc lloliviarr Scn;rtc thrrs nplroir,ls tirr ttrlgistrtlc:r to thc l)istrict (lourls. the Nationll lnduslrirr! l'r'ibrtrrirl antl titt N:iiiorlrl (lotrrt ot'Mincs. It appoints. togcther wilh tlrJ ('h:rnrbcr rrl'l)r'prtics. ilrc \ul)rcme ('ourt iudgcs. ntctnbcrs of the MaSi\lr':llxri (ilurr.:il tlrc l'ttblic Srttc I'!'(,.'(cttlor ill)d lhc ()nrbtldsl,lratr. lt submits thrcc clrrriccs t() tlrc llc:r(l .)t Stalr' l'(tr lll-' iti)Poilltnrclt olthc (iltnplrollcr Gcneral ol'lhc l(cpuhlic or llrc S irlrcrittl rtr(lclt (tl lhc llarrks. In Colornbia. thc Scnate 9ofl3 5ll8l20t6 l0:29 AM l'orum ot th€ world's Senates - Sc[ l lJs^ 4 lrte:///(,:/Ncw toldcr (.2)/Iorum ol thc World's Senates"/oAu- Senat-htm appoinrs thc l'uhlic St tc l'rosecutor. lu Spain, the Senate lnakcs proposals to the King, orr thc appoirrrnrcnt ol'4 ol lhc .10 urr:rnbcn; of the (jerrcral Council of the Judicialy. ltt Rorrri,'riir. it appoirrts tlrc Ornbudsman or Peoplc's Advocate. In Russia- tlrc l)uhliu t'roscerIk)r ol'tllc l.cdcrution, thc Constitutional Court judges. the Strprcnrc (irxrlt.irrtlqcs arrd thc.jutlgus ofthe lligh Courl ol-Arbilration of the Fedcraliorr arc aplxrinlcd bv thc l:cJcratiou Council. on tlrc advicc ol'thc l)rcsident of thc l-etlcftrtior. I Thc nood lirr thc Scoatc lo agru lo ccrtain appoilltments is cvcn morc comnron. Thc Arrrcrican casc is u'cll-knosn: lhc Sonittc's agreemcnt is esscntial for the appointrncnl. b-r' thc l)rcsidcnt ol'thc t.lrritcrl Statcs. of ministcrs, ambassadors and senior civil scrvanls. Ihis is also llre casc in nrgentina with rcgard to the appoinlrncnt ol'l'cdiluI ( otrrt judles- rliplornats. trade attach6s and scnior officers; in lloliria, lirr gcrrcrirl olliccrs arr.l tliplornats: in llrazil for nragistratcs. rnembers of thc Atrditors' li'ibrrrurl- rcqionll (ltr crrrors, thc govcnror of thc ccntral Bank and ths l\rblic l'r()sccut()r. c) The jutliciol pox','r\' ol S(notcs; Senalcs licqucrth i,ir rl.ie ipiltc. cirhcr iu tandcm with Iowcr houscs or alone. ln exantirrirrg cascs uulirrsl ccrtair !',-:; i(). stiltc r)lTicials. I)epcndiug on thc case. its rolc is to ifldict urrtl/,rr to l)ll\s sclrlr'r)cc This n,lc itr ircncr:rl eorccllrs thc Ilcatl ol Statc or membcrs ol'tlrc govcrnrnent. lt thus tppan trr b,.r an c\tcnsi()n rrl invoking tlrc political rcsponsibility of the executi\ c. in particular irr presidcrrtial s.\'stcms. Such is thc casc of Russia, Brazil. and thc t Jnilcd Statcs. rvillr the illll)caclrnrcnt pmcedure. Howcvcr. thc .iullicial lx)\vcrs ()l Scrratcs can go rnuclr lirrthcr and can be considcrcd. irr sorrrr' eascs. alorrir,iitlc thosc of thc classic lcgal institrrtions, The Argcntirtian Scrri:Lr :Iirv tlrus jrrt!.lL: lhc l't'csidenl, the Vicc-prcsident, rnembers of the golcrnnrcnt arrti cvcrr Suprcrnr (.'orrr(.jr.rdgcs. ln Bolivia, tlrc Senatc can judge the l'rt.,idcnt ol tlrr llinhcr (lou:, ol'.lrr:.ti;c and (hc lhblic Statc l)()secutor. ln Chilc. this porrcl ertclrrls to se;:c[al ()lliccls. to payrnastels and govcnrors. In Colorniria. apat lirrrrr llrc l)rcsi(lcnt ol thc Rcpublic. the nragistratcs ol'the Constittrtionrrl ('()ur-r iul(l lhc Srrptcr)'rc ('otrrt of Justice and the Couucil of State, membc$ ol'tlrc Suprcurc (louncil ol N4allistrates and the I'rosccutor Ocncral can be tricrl by thc S,-,r:rt,:. Sirrrilar lxrrvcr';:rrc entrustcd to thc Scnales ol'Para8uay. Uruguiil' antl tlre l)oruirricarr llc;;rrtrli.:. lt is thus possiblc to dctcct a South Amcricirrr "nrorlcl" :lrlftrctcriscrl lrv rrirlc porvcrs of scnlcncing cntruslcd to the Senatc. It shoul(1. houcvtr. oc rri,tc(l tllli this inrxlcl is nol rcstrictcd lo South America. Othcr sratcs lrourul rlrc u orld bcal sinrilaritics with this modcl. ln Kazakhslan, the Senatc lrls thc ptrrrcr to slrip inrlurrilv lionr the I'ublic l)rosccutor and mcmbers of thc Slrprcnrc ('r)rr.t. d) ScrntinS' ol g,r|1,,,. tit?'t ; loli(:i Scrutinl' ol'go\r-'rrlllrcnl lxrlicy is an cssetttial nrlc of Parliatncnts. lhe sccond chalnb('rs lravc rrrpirllr crcrciscrl lliis rolc. in the samc capacily as the first chanrh.rs. 'l lris s,:r.rrirrr is cirrri;rl o,r tlrrough classical nrcans: thc work of stan(linr'. corurlrittr',: '- lirc |rrssibiiiiy ol' putting (lucstions to thc govcmmeflt and thc righr olohtairrirr,,.;r tc.2ousc. llrc lxrrrcr to crcato investigalivc cotllnrittees. Yet ovcr and abovc thcsc c()rnnronly uscd illslrumcnts, in rccent years att incrcased awarcncss ol'thc pr:r'ticu|rr xrlc lltat sceond chambers call play in tlris arca has l0 of l3 5/l8n0l6l0:29 AM Forunr ofthe World's Senates - Sdrrat l'1.:' (i: Nc\ lblclcr (2);l'orunr ()l lhc World's Senateso/oAo- Sdnat-htn I 3q emcrgerl. Orrinil lo llrcir'lrrsiliorr as iisrcnrt)lics lhat arc lcss lrcqucrrtll. placed undcl rhc Polilierrl :,lxrllil1lrI rrr srrbitct t() qoYcmnrcl][al prcssurc and party inllucrr;c. Scrratc. licqrrcrrtl_r' lr;rr,.: rrn irrlcpcntlcncc rvhich makcs il casicr for thcnr t0 c'r'hicisc llr)\ ct'ulrcr,t policr tlri,, criticisnr- lurlhcrntorc, is rrol ncccssarily neEilti\r hut cirrr l:rll rritlrirr llri liaircrrork ()l'a constnlctivc arrd lorrg-term cvalttal i lc :lsses\ l(,rl ln this $ay- tlrc llritish llr)usc ol'L,rltlr' serutinv ol'thc pr(rccss ()l l'.uropean constructiofl via its Lrrnrl;e:rll (irrrrnrurritics Sclect ('omnrittec is $idcll adrnired. In (icnnarr-l'. irr villrit ol'its nalrrrrl Iirrrriliaritr $ith thc slruclurc antl rrorliings of the l-iirrrlcr. ll'rc llrrr(lcsrirr I'l:rys:irr cs:.irtirrl rolc in prcscrvirr-u rcgional balances and thc l,iinrlcrs' .lcrolrc.l p()\\cN. ll l')ttropcan alftrirs. thc porrcrs ol'the Bunrl:srat harc irlso nrorrrr corrrirlcnrlrh. lltrrs. lirr cxanrplc. rvhcn reirttlalions to be cxarrirrcd rclrirltlirr3 thc l'.utope arr l lnion rtll'c'ct tlre powers dl'lhc l.iinder. the Head ol'thc (icrrrrrrn tlclcqatior lo tlrc ( ouncil ol' Ministcn ntust be a l-and ministcl appoinlctl [l tltc llundcsritt. Thc ljrcnch Scrillr lrirs rrlsrr ilradc irrrrrr irliorrs in thc area ol'scrutin\'. Sincc 1972, it has n:irrrlarly ()\'crs1 1rl llrr' \t:rtlrll)r'\ apIlicrtlion ol larvs. ll also participalcs. along with thc Nrrtiorri.l '\rsr.,rrhlr'. irr c. rrirlrting lcgislation and pLrblic policy, parlicrr,lrrly hr ruri ,rl lxuii:inrcntirn olii-c\. ln thc arca ol l',ur()pean;rllhirs- it has thus tal,cn lhc iriliirlr\c ol--rcalirr,l rr l)r;rrir,ictll r.rll'icc rrilltitr tltc l-,ttr01rean tlttion. By wa1 of colciusi.iir l(r l:r:s brici orr.r.ic'r. Ihrcc prcliminltr\' findinqs may be drau'n. r lirsllr. thc rritle rrislr:,,ity ir t;rc ''tucllrrc:tnti rolcs ol Scnatcs or sccond chanlhcrs. r\hiclr \'()nlHr\t:. rritlr tlrc lxrlltogctrcilt, Ol ntottocantclal svstems, "Seru <.r rre rcrtuu'Aultla irt ravurlir4l tite dccp tcnsions thut rnt thnng,h diflbrenl cou tri(\"l3l"l ill(l irl thc sartrc titrrc ar,j the onl\ model cnabling sucll lensions to be rcrttlvcd: * hiearrrcrali.rt li ,r:ir',.'r :' ncr. rlpl:r::'!:: olicrr pet'ccit'cd tts it c()ltstitttlional "plu."- ir luxtrlr llr:r onir thc rrcalliti'-':,t tliltiotls can allbrd. hicarrtcralism is, instrlirr- irs it is Ir1,r'cscrtl,ltlrc ()l tlitl;()11:ll tliYclsitl'. lhc llcccssar.\ !oltditiol,t of malrrlc parlirrtrt'rtllrt' rlc!.il)ctit,.\. trr l,llillinir this nrlc. antl in crcrcising the pouen conlL'rleri l1'rrr Il:crtt. scrtirlc\ 'iri,litt'ltcj thc stnhilitl and lcuitimacy of nati(nl:rl instilrrli()l \l th- r'isk .;l' .p1, rritru ptor ocativc ol sinrplistic. it mLrst be remlrkcd lhat rr illtorrt bicltrt:cralisrtt- (i"rrl(tcrilc) is in ils irrlltncr'. * in tIc linal arralrsis. thcrc is nothing surprising in the rcsuryence of bicumcrllism: it i. rt srslcttt llrrrl is rrr.'ll xdaPlcd to colnplcx sociclics. rvhether this cornplcrirr b. tratlili,rrrttl r)i rrroii.r'rr. And bv its {leriblc and oPcn-cldd naturc. il is :tlorc rtt bcirrrt ithle l() li(l.lrcss cach of thcsc cornplcxities and to guar ntcc thc lrlrrsili.rll lirrtn trtr. l() iilr()lllc[. l]icarneralistn is. indccd- thc lvay fonr rrrtl. Mrlhods (,1' i\ (,.rriurrt;r,rl ol' t.,c \A r,. kl's Stnatcs and Seconrl (lhtrubcrs liullJ ti. i,-.. l>c....ics i'artialll ,rpjroiolcd clcclcd/parlially SGnrlcs l0:29 AM ll of l3 5ll8l20l6 l"orum ot Oe World's Senates - scrr t t35 lrlc:/,'1(r:/New toldcr (2ytorum ol the World's SenatesyoAo- Senat.htn appointed Scnates Dirccl !,,itircct | ,r,.r"u Direct I In ircct sulfruge stilnryt sulfrugt I sulfit,gc lsultrula Algcntina n ustl'iil llc l!. iu nr Alireria Antigua- and-Barbuda Atrstralia llosnia- S;;l in llclarus I lcrzcgovirra llahamas llolivia Botswarra ( rrrtgo llarbados ll raz il lrlrypl l',t i::op ia ('hilc lielizc India l riurcc Clolunrhia Canada lreland ( iabon l)cmocratic (.'zcch Rcpublic of Rcpuhlic Kazakhstan (icnnanl' thc Congo Donrinican Madagascar Morocctr I'iii (lsles) Rclrublic Malaysia Nanribia (i rcnada llaiti Ncpal Nctl;cllaurls .lrmaica Japan Swazilantl l)i:k istnll Jordan l.ihcria thjikistan Slovcrria [.esotho Mcxico Afghanistan Sotlth Saint [.ucia Nigcria Brrrtmdi , .liici. 'liinidad Carnbodia and Palau Srrrlarr 'lirbago Uzbchisun Parrguay I Rrvanda tJn itcd Kingdom Philippiues Russiarr Fedcration llarhcin l'oland 'l irn is ia Oman Ronrania Yemcn Switzcrland 'lhailand [.Jnited St tcs I lnrguay I I 1 l4 I te I l7 i I 12 of l3 5/lEl2016 l0:29 AM Forum ofthe World's S€nates - Scnat lile ://G :,Nerv foldcr (2)lForunr ol the'*,orld's Senates%A0- Sdnst.htm t36 I Rr thr: sakc ol.corrvcnieryc. the numcs ,\enalc or Seconcl('hunbar an: usecl indiflcrently b rclcr kt uplx'r chunhars iu general. 2 ('ounlries currcnlL, cttt.til<,t'inS such Onrun und Uzhakisrot . J lltr exumplc, ('cnncxxn. ( icoryiu tml ('had. 1 Alongside thc I'urylc's Nutionul Asscnthly'. the Peopla's llcpubl of Chino neverlhelcs.s hus crtt rrsenl'l.t'u lcl "'l'ln'('hincsc Pcople's Poli,ic.tl ('onsullqtive Conlcrcnce". 5 See the pnrceulings ol. the di,hurcs tf Murch tlth 2000. publishect ./ir the Meeting of the Senutes ol thc Hirlel rStnut de lu Rdpublique l.'runquise. April 2000). 6Articla Wl ol thc Decluution ol ,he llights of Mun and of the (iti:cn ol t789: "Any society irr which oo provision is rnade for guarantceing rights or for the separation of powcrs. ltas rro Corrsl iltrtion," 1 ?'hit is the modcl, k) na c hut u fuv exumples, in Australiu, Bolitiu..,lapan, Mexictt. Pokmd. Bnr:il. Sllrit:trhn,l tnul thc (lnited Statcs. 8 ('crtuin memhus ol. lht) lbyd .rtmib- ure ulxt nembers of.lhe Belgiut Senute as ofright -l'lruil lo T'hc lilirtirne nouil.tious ol.fitnuer I'retitlents of the llelnrhlic, tehrch ralate to very snall nunl,a,"r. .t! niti tukst iitto dt (t tl (a.g. lldl-V. ll l/ar.v oflan. tltc cla(lot'ot i ottst iluc,tci(.\ ol Senates are tle sanc us lhose of lhe regiuts (e-g. Polumll. 12 Article 10 oJ lhe l;rcnclt ('ou:;tituliott pnthibits purlianrcntaryt umaulnrcnts and pntptx s tltctt lruri, tfu <,ttr.sctltrrta ol either diminishing pubtic rrtouft:es, or crvaling or incnlusing puhiic cxparulilura. l3 Pasu c Del/issa urul ,ktttt-l'ittt,' l)t4nttt - "Des Sittuts" - Ilatue Intcrnolionale de p itiqtta utnlturic - l4tlunc 6 - ,r".1 - p. 7. ll of l3 5/t8n0t6 10:29 AM t37 ,/4nneF - 'H" $ffi courlctL (oNSftL OF EUROPT DE L'€UROPE Strasbourg, 26 November 2006 CDL{2006)059rw Or. Fr. Study No.3352005 ETJROPEA}I COMIVflSSION FOR DEMOCRACY THROUGH LAW (VEMCE COMTVtrSSTON) REPORT ON SECONDCIIAMBERS IN EUROPE "Parliamentatl complexity or democratic necessity?rr by Mr Patrice G6lard (Expert, France) thi6 &ur,,€,,t wll aot ba disrtibu/€d at thc n eling. PleosB bo7lg this @9Y. A deutrcnt re wa pas disdib]4a h rtu htt- PttOft de wus munr & @l exenplain . ls8 CDL(2005)059rev -,, - SECOND CHAMBERS IN EUROPE PARLI,AMENTARY COMPI,HflTY OR DEMOCRATIC NFTESSIry? l. Nearly 70 counEies in the world, including 17 in Europe, practise bicameralisrnr. Bicamcralism is closcly bound up with ftderali$n, ofwhich it is one of the key featur€f . Indeeq all six Gderal states in Europe are bicameraP. The same applies to counfie,s that are highly dccmtalised or coostinrtionally rcgionalise( wlue, as in the case of federalism, the second chamber plays an essential balancurg role betwaon the centse and the state's geographical componeflts. The main function of sccond chambcrs world thcrefore appear to be to represent sub-national authorities. At the same time, thc tscnd is towads the disappearance of aristocratic chambers or a decline in their rolg wen though they still orist in certain counties, such as the Fodcration of thc United Arab Emirdes and Malaysia, or several Afiican stales with treir coulrcils ofchiefs. 2. At the Forum of World Senates on 14 March 2000, about fifty delegations unanimously adopted a declararion that identified four functions ofsccord chambers, which: - mnsolidded and enhanced democraic regimeg through the diversification of r€pr€s€ntation and the imegrdion ofall the members of the nation; - facilitrtd the process of decentralisation and helped to rcgulate r€lations betwecn local and regional authorities and lh€ ccntral auftorities; -entsenched legal rules and standards and dre rule of law and placed the separuion of powers in a modem context; - helped to publicise legislative and political debare and inform and shape public opiniona. 3. But although bicameralism seems t be in gmd healttL it continues to face criticisrn and several countic have dispenscd with it mmpletely. Rccently second chambers have been abolished in Croatia, Kyrgyzstan and Sen€gal. The criticisms arc well known: second chambers arc exp€nsive and they impose excessive delays on $e work of first - elected - chambers. At a time when several European second chambers are undergoing reform and their role is the subject ofwide-ranging debate in Europe, we first nced to cxamine the cunent situation. I . Comoosition and mcmbership of second chambers in Europe 4. The following table summarises the composition of second chambers and theh method of selection. Name ofihc No. of Minimum Counay Method ofs€l€ction Term of officc 2d chambcr mcmbcrs age IndirEct suft8gq. Elcction by the 5 to 6 ye8rs, dep€nding l8 to t9 AusEia lond cor.rncil. Minimum 3 on thc term ofoffce of yeafl 62 (ftd.ral furfua rnqnb€[s p€r Lord, fliaxrfillum 12 the relwant land council depending 3ta!c) members ocr lcz4 number 0.ardus\ or the ' Autrto, Bclgiun, Belous, Bosnta ond Herzzgovit* Czch Republil, Fmrce, Germany, Ireland' Ialy' Netherlatds, Polan4 Ronania, k$ia, Slownic srlia StelEerlod atd lhe Unired KirSdon. ' Sx n Ewop (sec tlg lollavw ,pE): ti, in America: Cfu, USA, Merico, Bruil' Venezuela' Argentine; No in Allicd: S@t h Alrica, Ethtqia: tlvee in Asiq: tJniad Arob Enirates, lndia and Malaysia; and one in (keanio: Auslrulia. t Austrta Belgiun Eosnia ond Herzegwiru, Genwryt, Russla ond Stitzerland- *rbia and Motttctegro rc lorBer exisk as o ttqte irEe ils ,wo conporp s htw seryaled and in practice the Preious entity vos a cot*furaion a iorun of lUrld Scnaas: Lc Bicamerisme, urY i&e d'ownlr, Pois, Publicaions da Sdnat, 2000, pp. I 13 fin Frerch). 131 -3- CDL(2005)05ftev depends on size ofiopu lation relcvant Land - 56 alccted by iodircct suffrage in 7 coNtitrqrcies (6 regions + p€r Eelarus Senat€ ,u lvlin*) - E members conltitu[Eyi 8 appoiiEd by Ulc President of fie R.cpsblic ' - ,10 clcdod by univcrsal suffrage (25 &dr-speaking and .15 Frcnch*peaking by poportional rcpcsaraior) - 2l electcd.S indircct suffiage by the conlnunity parliaments Senate 74 00 4 yean (dissolution DutctFspcaking, l0 FrencF possible) spcaking and I German- speaking); - l0 co-o$ed; - 3 ncmbss by right (dle mmardr's childrcn) Bosnia - 10 elerhd by the Chamber of and PeQkls (5 Crcdg 5 Bcisoiaks) Herzego House of - 5 eloctcd by the Assembty of thc 2 years (dissolution l5 I yeals -vina Peoples Republika Srpska posible) E (feberdl state) Czectr Half ehcrcd by direct mdidity vote Rcpubli S€nate EI in wo roonds cvcry tfuec years 6 yean ,10 ycars c suftage; - 12 $€Dalors representing Frcnch pqsgns livi4g outsidc of France sel€c&d by tl€ Assembty of Frixrch purcns living abrood; - 334 s€nen eledcd in dbryrerne s; dt &Nr,enen| 3{6 (in has at least m€ m€mber. 6 years 201 t; The numbcr ofssfldors vades (halfrenewablc wcry ' 325 tt accoding to population and they France Sautc three years; formerly yean 2004',Id are clected by indirccr suftage by 9 30 year term rcnewable by 334 in the I 50 000 membcrs of$e thirds) 2008). ilectonl col.lcge (nembcrs of padiamefl t, regional councillors, di pad e m e n I councill ors atd reprcsentatives of municipal ities), di4emenls \t'.fih I to 3 sf,ta[ctrs use tlE two-round mqiority vote syst€m aDd the t€st proportiona.l reprcscntdion 3, 4, 5 or Gcmrgn 6 n€rnb€rs of tlle ku&r dcpends on fieir :y, gov€nrm€na, ecording to their continued membenhip of Burdesrt 69 population yyhidtoa (f€daal size Lotd I t years stab) govemmelt ltey r€ffesent - 49 dected (43 indirectly from voc$iqnl pancls, using proPortional rcpres€atation witb single t'ansftrable voG; Seanad 3 elected lrcland 60 by 0re gaduates Eireann of lhe national 5 years 2l years university of lreland and 3 elected by the University of Dublin - Trinity College); - I I opointed Senate 323 - 232 (75%\ elecled direcrh by 5 years 40 yean 19o CDL(2005)059rev -4- majority vdc: -83 clcacd by Foponiorul oo a rrgional b€sis with d lcai 7 s€nrtors pq rcgm, oth€r lhrl V.llc dAo6b (l) snd Molisc (2); - 3 formo pcsidms (for liE); - 5 mcmbas aooointcd br lifc First Elecrcd indircC.ly by thc provincial 4 yean (unlcss thc Netherla Chambcr of estates rsing proporlional 75 s€cord chambcr is | 8 vears nds thc Estales represcntation Garral dissolvcd) Eb{t d by dirccr sufrage ad mqiaity votl in onc roud in ,10 4 ycars (unkss thc Poland Senate 100 voivodic, which alc rcprcsclrtcd by sccord chamb€r is 30 yas 2 to 4 scnelors, according to dissolved) Dooulation Elccrd by dfur.t suffrage and Romani prcpordoml rcprcsauioo in a2 4 y.ars (dissolution Scnate 143 35 ycars a csrgitrncies ihat ehcr 2 to 13 posiblc) 3c brs - l scrutor appoilrtcd I cadr of ttc Assqnblir ofttr 89 snbjccts Courcil of ofthe Fodcraion; Dcpctl& oo thc tlrm of Russia rhc t?8 - I s.rubr rypointcO Uy orc offioe ofthocc uiho havc 30 ycan Fcdcraion govcrror, p.Bidcnt c mayc of appointcd th€tn . cac.h of tlc t9 subjcds of $c FGdcrIiqr - 22 selcctd by indirocr clcction ry the locel Gs.mbli6; - 4 cmploycr rcprcscntativesi - 4 cnploycc EDrescaedYcs; National Slovenia 40 - a rcpresrdfiv€s of crafumerl 5 veals I E years Council agriorhural wod(c6 lnd thc libcral pofcssions; - 6 rtPrlsemrd'rcs of non- cconomic uivities - 20t clccrcd by dirca $fta8c and mqio.ity voE (wi6in @h provtrqc) 4 ycars (dissolutioo SenaG 259 - clcctcd indircct suftagc I t yean Spain 51 ry possiblc) and poportional rcprescntaion S lrlc councils of lhc a[tonomous communitics 2 manbc's pcr canbn (or pcr half Switzrrl Council of 46 c.nton) elccEd by Dujonty vote 4 years lE yesrs end Statcs (exceDt in oiE canton) - aborx 600 lifc pcers - 92 fonftr hcrcdilry pccrs ; mo6t United of lhcn clcc'ted by thcir fellow House of About Kingdo hcr€ditay pctrs for life 2l ycars Lords 730 m - 26 lotds ryirituat (bi$ops and archbidlops) - 12 lar lods l.l. The title ofthe second chamber 5, The most common name is "senate", and even when another title is used the members often call themselves s€nators, lqt -5- CDL(2005)05grev 1 .2. Number of senators 6. This varics bctween 15 @cnia and Herzcgovina) and 3a6 @rancc). The average is about 70 to 100 but therc are always fewer senators than rnembcrs of parliament and the nrmrber is to a ceriain extent linlGd to the size ofpopulatim. Fcderal sfirs are to some e)ft€nt a special case and an C(c€Sion to this nrle. Thc same naturally applics to the totally atypical House oflords. 1,3. Method of selection 7. Generally speaking, second chambcrs arc elec'ted by indirect suftage by the assemblies ofthe countries' provinceq regiom or other adminishativc cntities. However, Italiaq Poli*L Romanian and Czech sendors ar€ clected by dirrct srftagc using a difrerEnt voting system to the lower house. Belgium and Spain use mixed voting sy$ems witft some senators elected by direct universal suffrage and the rcst indirectly. Asidc from the specific case of the United Kingdom, two cxccptions should be mentione4 those of Irclan4 where univ€fsity graauates elect six senatorg and Slovenia, where alongside fte local ardrority r€presentatives there arc repres€ntatives of employers, employeeg craflsmer! agricultural workers and tlrc liberal professions and nonconomic acrivities (as in the French cconomic and social council). 8. There is no particular significance to tre frct that senalon arc generally selected on a regional basis, exccpt in the casc of f*ral stahs. Hcrc a distirxtion must bc drawn bettveen senaton who are selected by local or r€gionsl authorities (Cermany, Austiq Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovin4 Russia) and those electcd by dLect suffiage, who arc likely to be more r€presentative ofthe population ofthe comporcnt psrts ofthe ftderation (SwiEerhn4 Belgium). 9. Under the French systein, senators are much more the reprcsentatives of municipalities than of &ptements and regions, since of the 150 fi)o members of the electoral collegg 142 000 rcpr€sent municipal councils, 4000 depttenenl councilg 1870 regional councils and 577 members of parliament (i.e. members of the lower housc). 10. lt should also be pointed out that when the two chamben are both directly elected - even with different voting systems - it is then somewhat anomalous to grant fewer powers to the second chamber, since they have the same democrdic legitimacy. We shall return to this que$ion. I .4. Terms of office ll. As a rule, and leaving asidc as usual tfte British casc, second and lower chambers have similar terms of office. The shortest t€rm is that in Bosnia and Herzegovina, which is much too brief. h conEast, thc former nineyear term ofFrench senators was excessive. The 2004 reform has reducrd their term to six yearq which is closer to the European average. ln Austsi4 the composition ofthc Bundesrat is partially rcnewed aftcr eoch election that took place in a Land. 1.5. 4J9 12. Although there is a tend towards harmonising the age of eligibility for the two chambers (18 in the majority of cases), some countries r€main attached to the idea that second chambers should be reserved for persons of orperience (40 years in Ialy ard the Czech Republic, 35 yean in Romania and 30 years in France, Poland and Russia). tqL CDL(2005)059rev - 6 - 13. A more deteiled study would reveal other distinctive features ofthe membership of second chamben, such as their rcpresenation orwomen or social or occupational groups tlat are un- or under-represented in the lower house. 14' Finally, we should not€ the very special case of British peers, who perform their duties unpaid, though this also applies to the Swiss council of States, whose members arc only entitled to claim expenses. 2. Funclions and powers ofsecond chambers 2.1. Eoualbicameralism 15. In a c€rtain number of cases, second chambers have exactly the same powers and responsibilities as their counterpart fust chambers. This applies particularly to Italy, where the Senate has the same powers as the lower hous€ to legislale and monitor govemment action. This situation reflects the method ofelecting the second chamber, which as with the lower house is by direct univenal suffnge. This was also the case in Romania until the last constitutional revision. However, as in Russi4 it is no longer possible to speak of equal bicameralism although each chamber has specific powers. 16. Bosnia and Herzegovina also practises equal bicameralism in both the legislative field - initiating legislation and the right of amendment - and monitoring govemment adlvities. This is morc surprising than in Italy as the Chamber of Peoples is elected by indirect suffrage, but is justified by the rcquircments of federalism. Switzerland also has an equal bieameral system, rcflecting its federal structurc. 2.2. Unequalbicameralism 17. In all the other bicameral states, tre bicameralism is unequal, with the second charnber exercising fewer powers than the firs! even if it has been elected by direct universal suftage. 2.2.1. Restricted financial oowers 18. Second chambers often have fewer financial powers than their lower house equivalents. The Aultrian Bundesrat, for example, has no budgetary responsibilities. The Spanish Senate has no power to amend the budget, unless the govemment agrees. The lrish Senate, the Czech Senate and the British House of Lords have no budgetary powets. Moreover, the budget is always presented first in the lowerhouse. 2.2.2. Resrricted leeislative powers Unequal Specific powers ofthe Equal bicameralism bicameralism second chamber Austria x x Belgium x x Bosnia and x Hezegovina Czech Republic x x France X x Germany x x Ireland X Italy x Netherlands x x tqs -7- CDL(2005)059rev Poland x x Romania x x Russia x x Slovenia x Spain x x Switserland x United Kinsdom x x 22.2.1. No porer to initiatc legislation 19. This is thc casc in ttrc Ncthcrlands, u/hcrrc trc First Chamb€r of thc Estabs Gen€ral (t re upper ho,se) tus no pow€r to initidc or Er€od lcgisldion. Is lcgislativc powcrs ac mnfned to apercying or rri,cling lcgislfion passcd by ft€ oth€r chambef. Ho*cwr, tlre two havc equal powus corwning &c strus of thc monarchy, war ard strtss of cm€rgrncy. It is rarc for lcgisldo inftied by a scnatc to be @ ard thc Frcoch rym of pdiamcatary lcgisldivc windows is fir from gcncral. 2222. No rigtt ofamendmcnt 20. The Auseian hodcsa,like ftc First Charnbcr of ttrc Ndrerlands Estoes Crencrat has no dglf of amcndmat. In most conntics, rmen&nelrs tabled by sendors 8rE rarcly approvod Francc bcing an cxcc6ion in dris l€g[d. 2.22.3. Spccific lcgislativc powers 2 I . In thc casc of uncqual bicsmcnlism, first clumbcrs always have thc las word on legislation. Howcvcr, as trc following able sholrs, thcre are certain cascs whcrc thc two charnben arp on an oqual fmting. DISTINCTIVE POWERS OF SECOND CHAMBERS County Special or equal oowers ofsecond chamber - Treaties affecting the competencies of he Ltinder Ausria - Constinrtional laws affecting the competcncies of the LMer - Constitutional laws affecting thc organisation ofthe Enzalesrar -Constitutional rcvision and spccial laws on statr rrform - Status ofthc monarchy Belgium - Important legislation (intemational u,eaties, internal agreements on co- operation. courtg national ity) Equal powcrs conceming electoral law, the firnctioning of the chambers and the Senatc's rules of procedure. O$enxise, the Senate can only Czech Republic oppose the will ofthe first chambcr in thc short term. The Scnde has a constitutional veto over all teaties and all lcgislation conceming human rights. - Constitutional revision France - Status ofthc Senate - Constitutional revision Germany -Tu Each chamber has a number ofspecific powcrs The Duma has the Russia last word, except in the case of the m6st important legislation, for which it requires a special majority to override thc veto of the Council ofthe Federation. Second chamber has very resrricted powers, in the fonn of ttre rigtrt to Slovenia make proposals, table amendments, rrquest second readings and request referendums. - Constitutional revision Spain - Local administration and autonomous communities (but the lower house may have ttrg last word) 22. Apart from these examples, in certain cases second chambers have special powers that amount to rights of veto. For example, certain laws cannot be enacted without their agreement or require qualified majorities in the relevant first chamber. 2.3, Powers of oversiqht 2.3.1 . Power to dismiss sovemments 23. Generally speaking, this option only exists in the countries - Bosnia and Herzegovina and Italy - with equal bicameral systems. In Romani4 motions of censurc are voted on in joint sessions of the two chambers. The issue does not arise in Switrerland, where the system is thmretically not a parliamentary one. 2.3.2. Extended rieht ofoversight 24. Most second chambers have wide-ranging pou,ers to monitor the activities of government, in the form ofinquiries, questions, proposals and referrats to a constitutional court. However, in the Polish and Slovenian upper houses these powers are fairly resnicted. 25. European integration has led to a major extension of second chambers, functions. The upper houses of the EU member states have all eslablished commitees or their equivalents to monitor . activities connected with Europe. chambers such as the House of Lords and the German and lqs - 9 - CDL(2005)059rev Austrian upper houses have carried out some exceptional work in this area. Spain has a joint European committee ofthe two chambers, which thus places them on an equal footing. 2.4. Other soecific mwers 2.4.1. Interim heads of state 26. In several bicameral states, the president/speaker ofthe second chamber acts as interim head of stste. This is taditional practice in France, but also applies to Germany, Romania, the Czech Republic, Poland and Italy. 2.4.2. Other functions 21. @lr;t functions include the decision to commit the armed forces to serving abroad (Germany), the right to indic't dre head of state an4 more generally, the power to appoint members of courts or ofjudicial service commissions @ussia, Ialy, Czech Republic, Germany, Austia, Belgium). 28. Thus, most second chamben have fewer powers than their counterpart lower houses. Nevertheless, they make key contributions !o legislation, ovaseeing govemment activity and, more recently, the process of Europea.n integration. 3. Issues and future orosoecB 3.1. The iustifrcation for second chambers 29. The argumerrts against second chambers are well known. They are a burden on tax payers, arc undemocratic in their method ofselection and impede the parliamentary process by delaying legislation approved by the lower house. 3.1.i. The cost ofsecond chambers 30. In practicc, these arguments are over-simplified and deserve closer analysis. The so-called high cost of second chambers is actually very relative. In theory, for example, the functions of the House of Lords are performed free of charge, as are those of the Swiss Council of States. Moreover, the numbers of members of parliament in monocameral and bicameral states do not differ significantly. Finatly, monocameral systems often include a form of "phantom" chamber, such as Luxembourg's Council of State, which calls on groups of expertg including academics, to consider draft legislation and draft opinions. Such institutions also bear a cost. 3.1.2. The value of second chambers in small countries 31. It would appear that second chambers are particularly unlikely to serve a purpose in the smallest or least populated counties of Europe (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia Latviq Lithuani4 Portugal, Cyprus, Malt4 Greece, Slovakia Bulgaria and Hungary). In other words all these countries with fewer than 15 million inhabitants deem it unnecessary to operarc a second chamber. It should be noted that some of them (Sweden, Finland, Hungary, Bulgaria) have had bicameral systems during certain periods of their history, and (Hungary, Bulgaria) regularly discuss the rc-establishment ofa senate, or in the case of Ukraine its establishment for the first time. Indeed, with 50 million inhabitants, the las-narned counEy must be considered to be well suited to a bicameral system. Moreover, lack of a second chamber has required these countries to establish altemative bodies to represent their various economic, cultural and social interests to complement their single chamber. tq6 CDL(2005)059rev -l0- 3.1.3. The importance ofsocond chambers in federal and hidrlv dccentalised statcs 32. As already noted, federal states in Europe and elsewhcrc in the world all have bicameral systems. Popular represcniation has to be accompanied by representation of the constituent geograpbical entities, particularly whcn the ftdcral state has been formed by a process ofmerger. There arc (at least curre-ntly) no exceptions to this situation, which has become a key rule of tideralism. 33. Thc rccent devclopment of constitutionally enshrined rcgionalisation or decentalisation points to the same outcome. Any highly decentalised stat€ nceds a second chamber to ensure dialogue bctween the cenEe and tre periphery. Since the Council of Europe considers decentralisation, or mor€ precisely local sclf-govemment, to be an essential component of democrrcy, sccond chamben clearly have a bright future. 3.2. The selection ofmembers of second chambers 3.2.1. The ambiquities of selection bv dir€ct universal suftage 34. Outside of federal $ates, direct universal suffrage to select mernbers of both chambers of bicameral parliaments, even with differcnt voting systemq crcates a constitutional pcculiarity that either necessiates cquality bctween the two or, ifthe sccond chambcr has fewa powers than the fimt, infringes the principle ofpopular sovereignty. Both situations crcate certain ambiguities. In the former case, one may question the value ofa system where the selection ofboth chambers by direct universal suffiage creates constiurtional clones. Both then represent the population at large, which may impede the efficient conduct of padiamentary business. Italy falls into this category, with the collapse oftle constitutional initiative designed to tum the Senate into the reprcsentative of the regions. On the other hand, under Romania's 2003 constitutional rcvision the final say on ratification and implementation of treaties and most organic laws lies with the Senate, whercas in other cases the Chamber ofDeputies retains this pr€togative. 35. It is even harder to understand cases where both chambers arc elected but one has fewer powers than the other, as in Spain, Poland and 0re Czech Republic. Problems arise wheq as is now the case in Spain, the opposition has a majority in the upper house. ln Poland senators find it difficult to ju*i& their status and in the Czech Republic the Senate has failed to make an impact on tlre public, leading to very high abstention rates at elections. 3.2.2. The need for a tundamentallv different but still democratic sysem of selection 36. Most second chambers in Europe are selected by indirect suffiage. This leads to criticisms that such voting systems are undemocratic and tend to result in very restricted tumov€r of rcpresentatives. Even tlrough such criticisms arc exaggerated, the complex nature ofthe voting methods used tends to make it difficult to asscss just how rcpresenbtive thc membcrs are. Indirect suftage is not in itself undemocratic but it must be based on clear and transparcnt rules. Nor is it wrong to use a variety of methods to select members of second chambcrs. Again" however, these mehods must be simple and easily understd in order to abide by the rules. ln other words, it has to be asked what purpose the second chamber serves. The method ofselection should flow quite naturally from the answer to this question. Ifexperienced men and women are requircd, an age limit is justified, as well as possibly other conditions. Ifthe aim is to repres€nt local authorities, it is only reasonable that the authorities themselves should choose their r€prrscntatives. tq7 , - ll - CDL(2005)059rev 37' It is also exuaordfurarily diffic.ult to srrike a rcasonable batancc betwcen democratic requimnems and the wcight of tadition. House of [,ords reform has currcntly reached an impasse bccausc it is by no means clear thd some form of rcgional reprcsentation would be ablc to ofrer thc same at[ibutcs that arc prescntly otrened by an appointea ci,umter. 3 .l , Rcprescntrtion of otlrcrwise urdcr- or unrcprtsanGd soups 38. In considering thc composition of sccond crumbbrsr in$ffici€nt affientiotr has bccrr paid to the possibility ficy offcr of represcnting grurps whose prcscnce in thc lower house is limited or nonadstent. 39. In Francc, for orample, the senalc includes reprcsentatives of nationals living abroad. Representatives of graduates of lrcland's two great univemities occupy six seats in is uppcr housc (and it is also wordr noting that senators in Kazakhstan must- irave highcr educarional qulificaions). In Slovcnia, reprcscntatives of economic, cultml and social intcrests sit alongsidc local authority rcprcscntativc in tlrc National council. Therc are many morc o 3.4. Other roles ofsecond chambers ,!0' s€cond chambcrs arc often characteriscd as cnbodying a particular mcasrrc of wisdonl balancc urd *pertisc. ccrtain chambcrs have made outstanding contibutions to trc law+naking process and impmving the quality of lcgislati$. 4I. It is Euc thd whcn second chamben are nc sbject to the risk of dissolutioq they enjoy a freedom to think and act lhat is not always shared by iowcr houscg which are p"-u*ntty irito pressure fiom public opinion and the media. 42. Second chambers often have more time at their disposal and can int€rest themselves in topics ftat are too oftcn ncglectcd by lower houses facod by more urgent mauers. Hence in particular their important role in the proccss of European integr*ion. The same applies to intemAional interparliamentary co-operation. 43. Europe's second chambers, which are too often 0rc butt of criticism and frrquently misundcr$ood, merit more consideration. Of murse it is perfectly understandable if smatl counties and ones that are *itl egablishing thcir danocratic system fecl that sccond chambem arc not essential. Howwer they are necessary, and will becomc increasingly rc, in federat states and ones lhat are constihrtionally regionalised or heavily dccentraliscd, where second chambers reprGcnt gEogaphical areas whcrcas first chambcrs r€pr€sent peoples. tl4. Unlike lower houses, second chambers should not necessarily be elected by direct universal suftagg thus enabling the former - other than in exccptiorul circumstanc€s - to have the final wod in thc adoption of lcgislation and sole power to ovefium govcmments. t- trs CDL(2005)059rev - tZ- 45. Rules of selection should be clear and prccise, and enable second chambers to perform tlreir different represcntative funcrions or recruit the desired quality of members, in ordeito guarantee .a their legitimacy. I 46. Above all, though, senators themselves must be convinced of their raron d'atre, t}r,ir special role and their ability to carry out their tasks. tt is they who have the greatest responsibility for defending adapting and modemising their insitutions. lf they act in this spirit, there is no doubt thar rcond chambem will become increasingly important factors in the modernisation of democracy. Parice Gdlod Frctrh setdor Prufessor Eterirus of Constiwional Izw Howrsy President of E InterTdional Association of Const itu, ional La*, Horcroy President of thc herch Association of Constihttional lawatoiy',t L-,)v-,.u-4qu(