Volume II Friday No. 51 25th March, 1966

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)

OFFICIAL REPORT

SECOND SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT OF CONTENTS

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 7173] ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE UNDER S.O. 18-Alleged Leakage of Information from the Lord Presid1>nt's Department by the Prime Minister [Col. 7187] BREACH OF PRIVILEGE BY THE HONOURABLE DATO' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (MENGLEMBU)-Complaint by Dato' Dr Ismail bin Dato' Haji Abdul Rahman [Col. 7189] BREACH OF PRIVILEGE BY THE HONOURABLE PRIME MINISTER- Complaint by the Honourable Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (lpohl LCol. 711J3J EXEMPTED BUSINESS (Motion) [Col. 7193] ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE (Motion) [Col. 7195] BILLS: The Education Amendment Bill !Col. 7195] The Medical Registration (Amendment) Bill [Col. 7214] The Companies (Amendment) Bill [Col. 7236) The Rubber Exchange (Incorporation) (Amendment) Bill !Col. 72381 The Rubber Export Registration Bill [Col. 7243) The Housing Developers (Control and Licensing) Bill [Col. 7249] The Workers (Minimum Standards of Housing) Bill [Col. 72721 The Children and Young Persons (Employment) Bill [Col. 7287) The National Rehabilitation and Consolidation Authority (Amendment) Bill !Col. 72931 The Family Planning Bill [Col. 7294) MOTION: Report by the Election Commission to the Prime Minister, Malaysia (Delimitation of Constituencies (Sabah) Order, 1966) [Col. 7302]

Dl·CHETAK Dl·JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN 1967

MALAYSIA

DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report

Second Session of the Second Dewan Ra'ayat

Friday, 25th March, 1966 The House met at 9.30 o'clock a.m.

PRESENT: The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' CHIK MOHAMED YusuF BIN SHEIKH ABDUL RAHMAN, s.P.M.P., J.P., Dato' Bendahara, . the Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, Y.T.M. PuTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M. (Kuala ). the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence, Minister of National and Rural Development, TuN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N. (Pekan). the Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N. (Johor Timor). the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN Srnw SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah). the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' v. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N. (Sungei Siput). the Minister of Transport, DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, P.M.N. (Pontian Utara). the Minister of Education, ENCHE' MOHAMED (Kedah Tengah). the Minister of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah). the Minister for Welfare Services, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang). the Minister for Local Government and Housing, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K. (Ulu ). the Minister for Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., P.D.K. (Sarawak). the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' v. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K. (Klang). the Minister of Lands and Mines, ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA'KUB (Sarawak). the Assistant Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, DATO' ENGKU MUHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR, P.M.N., S.M.T., P.J.K. (Trengganu Tengah). 7167 25 MARCH 1966 7168

The Honourable the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Sepa11g). the Assistant Minister of Finance, DR NG KAM POH, J.P. (Telok Anson). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health, ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN "(Seberang Tengah). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' , K.M.N. (Segamat Selatan). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' ALI BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pontian Selatan). ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N. (Melaka Utara). ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N. (Melaka Selatan). WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL, P.P.T. (Kuala Trengganu Utara). wAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU (Sarawak). TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (Sabah). ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HussIN (Lipis). ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GuL AHMAD MIANJI (Pasir Mas Hulu). DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN, Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan). TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH ( Hilir). ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARsHAD, A.M.N. (Muar Utara). TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID, J.P. (Seberang Utara). CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak). DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, s.M.J. (Muar Selatan). ENCHE' Aziz BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam). ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG, A.B.S. (Sarawak). PENGARAH BANYANG ANAK ]ANTING, P.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N. (Kluang Selatan). ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong). ENCHE' CHIA CH,IN SHIN, A.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah). ENCHE' CHIN FOON (Ulu Kinta). ENCHE' c. v. DEVAN NAIR (Bung,sar). ENCHE' D. A. DAGO ANAK RANDAN alias DAGOK ANAK RANDEN (Sarawak). .. ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK T ANGKUN (Sarawak) . TuAN SYED BSA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S. (Batu Pahat Dalam). DATIN HAJJAH FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID " ( Timor). DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N. (Jitra-Padang Terap). ENCHE' s. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K. (Sabah). DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah). ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah). ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N. ( Utara). 7169 25 MARCH 1966 7170

The Honourable ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD. YUNUS, A.M.N., J.P. (Kulim Utara). ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN, J.M.N. (Jerai). ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Baling). WAN HASSAN BIN WAN DAUD (Tumpat). ENCHE' STANLEY Ho NGUN KHIU, A.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN To' MUDA HASSAN, A.M.N. (Raub). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD. NooRDIN, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Parit). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN SuLAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan). TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN ( Hulu). ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak). ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan). PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN, Q.M.C., A.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' THOMAS KANA (Sarawak). ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak). ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K., J.P. (Sabah). DATO' LING BENG SIEW, P.N.B.S. (Sarawak\ DR LIM CHONG Eu (Tanjong). ENcHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat). ENCHE' LIM PEE HUNG, P.J.K (Alor Star). DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD (Kota Star Selatan). ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson). ENCHE' JoSEPH DAVID MANJAJI (Sabah). DATO' DR HAJJ MEGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P., J.P., P.J.K. (Kuala Kangsar). ENCHE' MOHD. ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K. (Sabah). ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah). ENCHE' MOHD. DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besut). ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN MATSIL, J.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Jelebu-Jempol). ENCHE' MOHD. TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, S.M.S., P.J.K. (Kuala Langat). WAN MOKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman). TUAN HAJJ MOKHTAR BIN HAJJ ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan). ENCHE' MUHAMMAD F AKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir). TUAN HAJJ MUHAMMAD Su'AUT BIN HAJJ MuHD. TAHIR, A.B.s. (Sarawak). DATO' HAJI MusTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR, D.P.M.s., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bernam). ENCHE' MUSTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah). DATO' , D.K., S.P.M.K., S.J.M.K., P.M.N., P.Y.G.P., Dato' Sri Setia Raja (Kota Bharu Hilir). ENCHE' NG FAH YAM (Batu Gajah). ENCHE' (Sarawak). TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak). 7171 25 MARCH 1966 7172

The Honourable ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Perlis Utara). ENCHE' QuEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Timor). TUAN HAJI RAHMAT BIN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N. (Johor Bahru Barat). TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD. SAID, P.J.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin). RAJA ROME BIN RAJA MA'AMOR, P.J.K., J.P. (Kuala Selangor). ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak). ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB, P.I.S. (Muar Pantai). ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh). DATO' s. P. SEENIVASAGAM, D.P.M.P., P.M.P., J.P. (Menglembu). ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak). ENCHE' SENAWI BIN ISMAIL, P.J.K. (Seberang Selatan). ENCHE' SNG CHIN Joo (Sarawak). ENCHE' SuLAIMAN BIN HAJI T AIB (Krian Laut). PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sabah). ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN ALI, P.J.K. (Larut Utara). ENCHE' TAI KUAN YANG (Kulim-Bandar Bharu). ENCHE' TAMA WENG TINGGANG wAN (Sarawak). DR TAN CHEE KHOON (Batu). ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan). ENCHE' TAN ToH HONG (Bukit Bintang). ENCHE' TAN TsAK Yu (Sarawak). ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara). ENCHE' YEH PAO TzE (Sabah). ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas). ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TzE (Sarawak). TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD. TAIB, P.J.K. (Langat).

ABSENT: The Honourable the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AuN, J.P. (Larut Selatan). the Minister of Information and Broadcasting, ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Barat). the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, TUAN HAJI MOHD. GHAZAL! BIN HAJI JAWI (Ulu Perak). TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AwANG OSMAN, Assistant Minister (Kota Star Utara). ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BuLON, Assistant Minister (Bagan Datoh). . ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB, P.J.K. (Kuantan). Y.A.M. TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI AL-MARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T. (Rawang). TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD. SALLEH, A.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.s. (Segamat Utara). ENCHE' ABU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok). 0. K. K. DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K. (Sabah).

------7173 25 MARCH 1966 7174 The Honourable ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YooN (Setapak). ENCHE' CHEN WING SUM (Damansara). TuAN HAJI lIAMzAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N .• PJ.K (Kapar). WAN HASSAN BIN WAN DAUD (Tumpat). DATO' SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, P.M.N. (Johor Tenggara). ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAi (Sarawak). ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J.P. (Sitiawan). ENCHE' KHoo PENG LOONG (Sarawak). DATO' KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' LEE SECK FuN (Tanjong Malim). ENCHE' PETER Lo Su YIN (Sabah). DATO' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJJ MUDA, P.M.K. (Pasir Puteh). ENCHE' MOHAMED YusoF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N. (Temerloh). ENCHE' MOHD. ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL, J.M.N. (Sungai Patani). ENCHE' RAMU BIN OMAR (Krian Darat). ENCHE' Smw LooNG HIN, P.J.K. (Seremban Barat). ENCHE' SoH AH TECK (Batu Pahat). ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN ALI (Dungun). ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka). ENCHE' TOH THEAM HOCK (Kampar).

PRAYERS development needs of Malaysia based on the projects included in the First (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Malaysian Five-Year Development Plan 1966-1970. This meeting was ORAL ANSWERS TO attended by representatives of 12 countries, viz. Australia, Belgium, QUESTIONS Canada, France, Germany, Japan, FOREIGN LOANS AND GRANTS Netherland, New Zealand, Norway, TO MALAYSIA (FIRST MALAY­ Switzerland, the United Kingdom and SIA FIVE-YEAR DEVELOPMENT the United States. The meeting which PLAN, 1966/1970) was sponsored by the World Bank, 1. Dr Lim Chong Eu (Tanjong): expressed general agreement with the (Under Standing Order 24 (2)) asks Malaysian Government's approach to the task of economic development and the Minister of Finance to state (a) whether the Government is in any agreed in principle that a Consultative Group for co-ordinating external position to indicate whether the amount of foreign loans and grants assistance to Malaysia was desirable. The Consultative Group further envisaged during the Five-Year Plan period, 1966-1967 will be forth-coming; agreed to meet again from time to and (b) what steps the Government time to devise appropriate ways of co-ordinating such aid to Malaysia. will take to ensure that its expectations The very fact that soon after the first in respect of foreign loans and grants meeting of this Consultative Group, a will be fulfilled. number of countries present had The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan actually discussed with the World Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, in Bank the venue for the next meeting, October last year, I addressed a meet­ which they felt should be held in ing of the Consultative Group on Aid Europe, is an indication that the initial to Malaysia, popularly known as "The response from potential donor countries Aid to Malaysia Club", on the was encouraging. 7175 25 MARCH 1966 7176 It has now been decided that the Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, next meeting of the Consultative Sir, is the Honourable Minister of Group will be held on 17th and 18th Finance aware that there are press May in London. The decision to hold reports, and these press reports have this meeting in May indicates that the not been contradicted by the Minister Government's efforts to obtain the of Finance, that this Government is foreign loans and grants envisaged in seeking a 2,000 million dollar loan the First Malaysia Plan are meeting from abroad? Is that report true or is with some measure of success. that report inconsistent with what is being laid down in the First Malaysia As regards the second part of the Plan? Honourable Member's question, our officials are now preparing project Enche' : Mr Speaker, briefs for the May meeting in London. Sir, the overall target figure of foreign The first phase of this exercise which, financing is of the order of $1,900 involves the identification of projects million, and that was the figure given has been completed. The second and in the First Malaysia Plan. That figure third phases, which comprise the col­ also consists of not only loans but lation and analysis of material in grants, and I think the Honourable justification of such projects, and the Member will appreciate that press actual drafting of project briefs are reports of course have a tendency to under way. The fourth and final phase. round off these figures-I suppose which consists of the editing and that is how $1,900 million became finalisation of the project briefs is $2.000 million. As I have tried to expected to be completed by the end explain to the Honourable Members of this month. It is expected that these opposite, I am not responsible for briefs will be forwarded to the World press reports. Bank early in April. The Bank will in Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, turn submit these project briefs to­ Sir, while we appreciated that Govern­ gether with its comments thereon to ment is not responsible for press the member countries of the Consul­ reports, nevertheless, if there are grave tative Group. It is estimated that inconsistencies in press reports, one approximately 100 development pro­ would hope that the Government jects will be submitted for the con­ would contradict such reports. What I sideration of the Consultative Group am seeking for clarification is whether meeting. this $1,900 million loan is all loan, Various officials of the World Bank, or is it, as laid down in the First including a Vice-President and the Malaysia Plan, $1,000 million by Director of the Far East Department, way of loans and $900 million by way have visited Malaysia recently in of grants. connection with the work of the Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Consultative Group. They have advised Sir, as I said about three minutes ago, that it would be most desirable for the this overall figure of $1,900 million Minister of Finance to visit as many consists of both loans and grants, and countries in the Consultative Group the facts given in the last supplemen­ as possible prior to the meeting in tary question by the Honourable May, with a view to securing support Member for Batu are correct. from such countries. I, therefore, propose to make a visit to Europe Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, it is quite with a view to rallying support for clear that the Honourable Minister, in the Consultative Group on Aid to deciding to go abroad to Europe on Malaysia. The Consultative Group the advice that was made to him, is will meet from time to time and the fairly confident he is going to raise Government will continue to submit to these loans and grants. But, should the these meetings development projects total amount expected be not forth­ with a view to achieving the targets coming, has the Government and the for foreign financing envisaged in the Honourable Minister any possible Plan. alternative plan? 7177 25 MARCH 1966 7178 Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, example, Moscow, Peking. Recently Sir, I have never at any time used the there was again a press report-I word "confident" in any of my public take it for what it is worth-emanat­ pronouncements. In the answer, which ing from the Government, that if these I gave to the original question, I did loans and grants were not to be say that our efforts have met with obtained from the present group of some measure of success, and that is countries we may even have to go to as far as I am prepared to go. I countries which are at present called should also like to explain to the the Communist bloc countries. House that this May meeting is not the kind of meeting where I present Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, a demand and every country starts Sir, one must also remember that the writing out cheques. It is not as simple Communist bloc countries giving aid, as all that. What we will have to do I think, have other motives, parti­ at the May meeting is to present these cularly political, apart from the desire project briefs-there must be specific to help developing countries. As I said project briefs-and then we should be previously, that is a bridge which we able to get some indication from the will cross when we come to it, but I member countries present whether think we will certainly make every there would be the possibility of them effort possible to obtain all the assist­ taking up particular projects. I think ance we need from every possible that is as far as we expect to get in source. London in May. $1,900 million is a lot of money, even by international ECONOMY DRIVE BY THE standard. We cannot at one meeting, GOVERNMENT say, "'A' country gives 500, another 2. Dr Lim Chong Eu (under S.O. 24 country gives 200" it is not as simple (2)) asks the Minister of Finance to as that. But I, personally, feel that if state whether any results had been the project briefs are properly pro­ achieved from the economy drive cessed we should, by the end of the introduced by the Government last Five-Year period, I think, be able to year with the view of ensuring that achieve the targets which we have set recurrent expenditures do no-unnec­ out to achieve. With regard to the essarily, and to obtain maximum second part of the Honourable Mem­ effectiveness from the money spent in ber's supplementary question, the the public services. answer is obvious. If we are not able to achieve the target which we have Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, set out to do, then obviously we have Sir, in so far as the 1965 accounts are to omit some projects from the Plan. concerned, I was hoping to give a As to what these projects will be, I definite indication of the success, or think it is a matter for future con­ otherwise, of the economy drive sideration. We will cross the bridge launched last year, but regret to say when we come to it. that the 1965 accounts have not as yet been closed and, therefore, it is still a Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, the next little premature to make a definite question, which I would like to ask assessment at this stage. This House as a supplementary out of this may will recall, however, that when I made strike the core of the memory of the my Budget Speech in November last Honourable Minister of Finance, be­ year and spoke of the expenditure cause some many, many years ago, proposals for 1966, I mentioned that when the question of loans was first while provisions to cover recurrent raised, and his position vis-a-vis the expenditure on Education, Defence, Government benches was very much Public Debt and Grants to States for like my own at the present time, there 1966 had increased by 13.l per cent, was a suggestion that if these loans the expenditure proposals of other could not be raised from the countries services had been restricted to a in Europe, in London, and New York, modest increase of only 2.2 per cent one should go elsewhere-I mean, for over the original 1965 provisions. 7179 25 MARCH 1966 7180 This "reflects the deliberate policy Departments. Other measures which decisions and the imperative need to have been initiated by Government exercise the most rigorous economy in are as follows : less essential fields of public expendi­ (a) From a review undertaken to­ ture"-these are my words. Apart wards the end of last year, officers from these unavoidable increases, I travelling overseas on duty, leave, also mentioned that the 1965 Budget or study leave, by air are not could rightly be described as an permitted to travel first class, "austerity budget and is the first fruit unless they are Superscale "D", of the economy drive". I also added salary $1,670 per month, grading that a small team of consultants or above, or accompanying Minis­ supplied by the Ford Foundation had ters on oversea conferences, when undertaken a preliminary examination they are Members of a Malaysian of the Government's structure with delegation. Before this rule was the objective of finding ways and introduced officers drawing a means of achieving further economics salary of $1,300 per month and and greater efficiency by re-organising above were eligible for first class the administrative structure and, travel by air. generally, streamlining existing met­ hods and procedures. This report, that (b) The size of delegations attending is the Report on Development Admi­ international conferences has also nistration, Malaysia, which has been been restricted. In addition, a approved by the Government in prin­ review undertaken by the Trea­ ciple, has been tabled in this House. sury has curtailed the number of such conferences that would I am sure the Honourable Member justify participation by the for Bungsar, who has just come in, Government. Only those regarded will appreciate that the results from as essential will be allowed. an exercise to curtail recurrent ex­ (c) Strict instructions have been penditure cannot be achieved over­ issued on the use of official night. It entails a host of examinations, transport, particularly on the use which must necessarily be a time­ of staff cars, so as to ensure that consuming exercise. The efforts of the only essential travelling is done in Government, it will be appreciated, them. can only bear fruit after a reasonable period of time. As an example, let me (d) All Ministries and Departments single out a specific recommendation have been instructed that the in the Report on Development Admi­ cheapest office stationery and nistration concerning the need to other office equipment and supply establish a Central Purchasing Organi­ should be procured for their use. sation so that such purchases, to meet (e) All the Ministries and Depart­ the needs of Ministries and Depart­ ments have also been asked to ments, can be done by one authority, exercise the strictest economy in and not by a host of authorities as the use of electricity and water at present. The Report avers that the in Government Offices. Government could save millions of dollars if it followed this method of (f) The Treasury, when considering purchase. While this recommendation the release of funds required for will need detailed planning and orga­ public functions, has consistently nisation, as the question of manpower, emphasised that this should be storage, etc., will be involved, I am governed by the need for glad to say that in respect of the austerity. purchase of heavy equipment such as (g) A review of annual leave arrange­ lorries, tractors, etc., the Ministry of ments by expatriate officers both Works, Posts and Telecommunications permanent and otherwise, as well has already initiated action in calling as the review of the terms and for international tenders to cover the conditions of engagement of requirements of most Ministries and experts under the Colombo Plan 7181 25 MARCH 1966 7182 and other auspices is being under­ on their examination tours feel it taken, with a view to ensuring necessary to give out hand-outs, they that the cost of annual leave in should first refer it to the Minister of terms of transport and lost time Finance, and after consideration by and non-essential privileges pro­ the Cabinet, then so decide? Sir, the vided for such experts are country at large well understand that curtailed. when the Honourable Deputy Prime (h) Instead of obtaining advance for Minister goes out handing out money the purpose of buying motor cars for rural development, he is probably once in every three years, the doing it with a very great considera­ Treasury has introduced a rule tion, but the rest of the country cannot that officers can only obtain an understand when after a game of golf advance for the purpose after a $30,000 is paid to a club to help the period of 4 years from the time club. How that could possibly be in when they received the last accordance with this spirit of the advance. austerity drive? (i) Government has also staggered Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, the leave of officers who have Sir, I do not think "hand-out" is the availed themselves of the grant of happiest possible term the Honourable free passages overseas. This pri­ Member could have chosen. I can vilege is commonly known as a assure the Honourable Member that "once-in-a-life-time" passage. The every member of the Cabinet is deeply staggering of such leave can help conscious of the need for austerity, quite a bit, because a lesser and even Ministers do not travel or number of officers will then be give grants for rural development with­ required for the establishment, all out, I think, the full consideration of other things being equal. all the factors involved. U) A review of the minimum office space requirements for staff has Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): also been undertaken; with the Following on what the Honourable introduction of the air-condi­ Member for Tanjong has said, is the tioning in offices standards have Honourable Minister of Finance aware been scaled downwards. that at one time last year almost half the Cabinet was in orbit simultaneously, Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, there is no leaving so many Ministers doubling up. question that the Government's I think it was one Minister who went announcement of the austerity drive on a delegation for Sepak Raga, and I during the last Budget debate was one do not know whether it was at the of the greatest stimulants to the rest of taxpayers' expense. Are all these visits, the nation; and this present recital of all these flights into orbit, in conso­ the ten of the items in respect of nance with this austerity drive? which the Government intends to exercise economy is very encouraging. Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, the "orbiting", if I may borrow the However, Sir, is the Honourable Honourable Member's word, I think, Minister aware that of these ten of was necessary in every case-also a few which the priorities obviously are not cases when Ministers went overseas, but very high. one other factor which the not at the expense of the public purse. rest of the country is very deeply I think the Honourable Member has anxious about is.this question of control raised this question previously and got of ministerial expenses-I mean Minis­ a fairly satisfactory answer or a com­ ters' travelling to various parts of the pletely satisfactory answer, but I suppose world for reasons of improving their he has to raise this matter again for the knowledge and this question of travel­ sake of his Party. ling to different parts of the country and giving out hand-outs. Sir, will not Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Minister of Finance will the Honourable Minister of Finance consider it necessary that, if Ministers give us a firm assurance that in the 7183 25 MARCH 1966 7184 exercise of austerity, he will do so with Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, his well known absolute impartiality? Sir, can the Honourable Minister tell We have never advocated dictatorship, us, how many Chinese have been re­ or totalitarian systems, but from what settled in that area and how many the Honourable Minister has told us indigenous people have settled in that about our expectations from foreign area who are not resettled? loans, and from his own previous elucidation of the relationship between Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, that is a the Budget and our Five-Year Plan, separate question, if I may say so. this austerity is absolutely necessary. So, we would like to see that the Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Honourable Minister has real extensive Sir, is the Honourable Minister abso­ powers in controlling and curbing lutely sure, knowing the devious ways unnecessary expenditure. Will the by which the communists operate, that Honourable Minister give us this this virus of communism has not spread assurance? to people other than Chinese who seem to be so susceptible to this virus? Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I shall certainly try my best. Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I cannot be sure, but I can come to a logical con­ RESETTLEMENT IN NEW clusion from the facts given to me. VILLAGE, KUCHING-SERIAN ROAD, SARAWAK MALAYSIAN AIRWAYS FLIGHT S. 11-DELAY (BANGKOK-KUALA 3. Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the LUMPUR) Minister of Home Affairs to state, why only the Chinese were resettled in the 4. Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the new village along the Kuching-Serian Minister of Transport the reason for road, and whether there are other the delay of two hours of flight S. 11, inhabitants in that region, and if so, Malaysian Airways from Bangkok to why they were not resettled. Kuala Lumpur, on 20th February, 1966, and to state whether he is aware that The Minister of Home Affairs (Dato' the plane arrived three hours late and Dr Ismail): Mr Speaker, Sir, the re­ that although most of the passengers in settlement exercise along the Kuching­ the flight were furious at the two hours Serian Road was conducted, in order to delay, none of the crew of that disrupt the communist grip in that area Malaysian Airways flight bothered to and to restore an atmosphere of confi­ explain to the passengers the cause for dence as a means of removing com­ the delay and almost adopted a could munist duress, so as to enable civilian not-care-less attitude. co-operation to re-assert itself. Resettle­ The Minister of Transport (Dato' ment was only confined to the Chinese Haji Sardon): Mr Speaker, Sir, on the population along the Kuching-Serian 20th February, the take-off of ML. 512 Road, as they have for long been a for Bangkok was discontinued at Kuala community in which the communist Lumpur as one of the engines was only organisation in Sarawak has thrived, giving half power. The engineers at although, I would like to emphasise, Kuala Lumpur set out to rectify the not all the members of the community fault and completed this after three have willingly assisted the communists, hours. The service, therefore, operated as was revealed by the information three hours behind schedule on the given by way of letter boxes, which Kuala Lumpur /Bangkok sector. were installed as a means of getting information from the people. It was not At Bangkok, due to quick handling, necessary to resettle the indigenous the delay on the return flight was people long domiciled in that area, as reduced to approximately 2! hours. they were not found to be the There are standing instructions in target of the Clandestine Communist Malaysian Airways that all passengers Organisation. be fully informed of delays and the 7185 25 MARCH 1966 7186 cause of such delays. If it is true-and Honourable Members who travel about I believe that as the Honourable Mem­ as V.1.Ps. Thank you. ber himself experienced it, it must be true-that the crew on flight ML. 511 Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Those who has failed to do this, instructions will travelled on that flight, they were not be issued to those concerned to ensure V.1.Ps. I wish to inform the Honourable that this attitude does not persist. Minister that those who travelled on that flight, who got on that flight, after Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Is the the late arrival of the said aeroplane, Honourable Minister aware that on not a single member of the staff of that that day in question at the Bangkok aeroplane took the trouble to inform airport, although it was stated that this the passengers. flight would be delayed, there was no reason given for it at the airport itself. Dato' Haji Sardon: On a point of That may not be very serious, Mr order, Sir, I think I have assured the Speaker, Sir. What was very serious Honourable Member that I will com­ was that : Is the Honourable Minister municate with the Chairman of the aware that there is no Malaysian Air­ Malaysian Airways. I am not the ways staff at the Bangkok airport. operator. I am just informing this Consequently, when passengers made Honourable House and the Honour­ enquiries, they were directed to Thai able Member. International and the Thai International was completely in the dark even as to Dr Tan Chee Khoon: I do not see the expected time of arrival of the said why the Honourable Minister should aeroplane. Even half an hour before get so hot under the collar whenever I the arrival of the aeroplane at the ask a few questions. I just wish to airport, nobody at the airport knew inform him of the very unsatisfactory about it. Does the Minister concerned state of affairs of passengers who .• after not consider this a very unsatisfactory an infuriating wait of four hours at the state of affairs and very damaging to airport, when they boarded the aero­ the reputation of efficiency of the plane, there was not a single word as to Malaysian Airways? why the plane was delayed and the attitude was "we could not care less". Dato' Haji Sardon: I will certainly Will the Honourable Minister investi­ communicate with the Chairman of the gate into this and see that the crew of Malaysian Airways to see that they are this flight, wherever they may be, they always efficient; but, unfortunately, that will be, in future, a little more helpful day something must have gone wrong to passengers. somewhere. The airport from Bangkok is about 18 or 17 miles, and it takes Dato' Haji Sardon: Mr Speaker, Sir, three quarters-of-an-hour to get there. I have already given the assurance that Probably, the staff must have known I will refer this to the Chairman of the that the plane was delayed and they Malaysian Airways. came late to the airport-I do not know. Anyway, I would like to advise, parti­ WITHDRAWAL OF EMERGENCY cularly, Honourable Members of this REGULATIONS PROHIBITING House who are in orbit-the Honour­ STRIKES IN ESSENTIAL able Member probably just came back SERVICES from London, I think-that on reaching 5. Enche' C. V. Devan Nair (Bungsar) from London, I presume, at the Bang­ asks the Minister of Labour to state kok airport, kindly report to the whether he had re-examined the possi­ Malaysian Airways officials, giving the bility of altogether withdrawing the numbers of the rooms where they are Emergency Regulations prohibiting staying, the telephone number, so that strikes in essential industries and the in case of any delay or any inconve­ result of such re-examination, if any. nience, they can be contacted quickly and efficiently. I ao ask the co-operation The Minister of Labour (Enche' V. of all the passengers, particularly our Manickavasagam): Mr Speaker, Sir, the 7187 25 MARCH 1966 7188 Essential Regulations do not prohibit May I ask the Honourable Member strikes, as is stated in the question, to clarify this? but merely restrict industrial action under certain circumstances in the Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (lpoh): essential services. These Regulations Mr Speaker, Sir, I think it is first my were promulgated specifically under the duty to move it, and in moving it I Emergency (Essential Powers) Act to would not be justified, or morally right, meet the emergency situation in the in saying anything more than asking country, and I do not propose with­ leave. Under Standing Order 18 (1), I drawing these Regulations as long as ask leave of you, Mr Speaker, and the the emergency lasts. House, to discuss a matter of definite, urgent and public importance in rela­ Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Is the tion to the statements made by the Honourable Minister aware that inter­ Honourable the Prime Minister in this nationally the impression has been House yesterday. The Honourabl~ the given that all restrictions on industrial Prime Minister made an absolutely action have been withdrawn, and may unwarranted attack and wild allega­ 1 have an assurance from the Honour­ tions against the Lord President's able Minister, when he goes to Geneva Department. If nothing else, at least, this year-if he does-that the truth good taste ought to have made him will be told that there are restrictions hold his tongue. He could have held under certain circumstances on indus­ an enquiry and, then, if there was any­ trial action in this country. thing in that enquiry, announced its result. As it is, he has let his imagina­ Enche' V. Manickavasagam: The tion to go wild and made allegations International Organisations do appre­ against those, who cannot answer him ciate the need for such restrictions in here, from the Lord President's Depart­ industrial actions, especially when we ment. Mr Speaker, Sir, there are two are having this emergency. matters on which I ask leave as a matter of being definite, being urgent LEAVE FOR ADJOURN­ and of public importance and those MENT OF HOUSE UNDER two matters are : S.O. 18 (1) that the Honourable the Prime Minister falsely alleged that there (ALLEGED LEAKAGE OF had been a leakage of informa­ INFORMATION FROM THE tion from the Lord President's LORD PRESIDENT'S DEPART­ Department as to the successor MENT BY THE PRIME to the Chief Justice; MINISTER) (2) falsely alleged that the decision Mr Speaker: Honourable Members, I in the case of Rahman Talib have received a letter from the Honour­ versus Seenivasagam and Abu able Member from lpoh. It reads: Bakar was known to the Member "Honourable Mr Speaker, for lpoh before it was delivered. I hereby give notice that under Standing Order 18 (1) and (2) I will ask leave to Those are the two matters which, I say, move an adjournment of the House to are of public importance, are urgent discuss the following matters which are and should be debated in this House urgent, definite and of public importance. immediately for those· reasons. A statement made in the House on 24-3-66 wherein the Prime Minister: Mr Speaker: May I give my ruling (a) falsely alleged that there had been now as to your request? a leakage of information from the Lord President's Department as to the suc­ cessor to the Chief Justice; Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: At this stage I am not entitled, think, to say (b) falsely alleged that the decision r in the case of Rahman Talib versus anything. Seenivasagam was known to the Mem­ ber for lpoh before it was delivered. Mr Speaker: Under Standing Order (Sd.) D. R. Seenivasagam, 18, there must be three ingredients in Ipoh." what you have just now mentioned. 7189 25 MARCH 1966 7190 The subject matter must be definite, before the business of the day com­ it must be prima facie, urgent and it mences. must be of public importance. I am not satisfied that all the three elements Mr Speaker: I rule that he can, are present. It may be of public because it had been done before. importance, but it cannot be said to be urgent enough and definite enough. I, Dato' S. P. Seenivasagam: That therefore, cannot allow the Honour­ applies to the Opposition as well. able Member's claim to move the adjournment of the House under Dato' Dr Ismail: As I said, the cir­ Standing Order 18. The Honourable cumstances were as follows. During the Member could have brought the matter proceedings in the Committee of Supply under the Judges' Remuneration Bill, on the Supplementary Supply (1965) when it was discussed yesterday. Bill yesterday, the Honourable Member for Menglembu rose to speak on BREACH OF PRIVILEGE BY Head S. 45 of the Schedule to the Bill. When it became clear to me that the THE HONOURABLE DATO' Member intended to speak on the policy S. P. SEENIV ASAGAM and not on the details of expenditure (MENGLEMBU) set out under this Head, I rose to submit that under Standing Order 67 (5) COMPLAINT BY DATO' DR it would not be in order for him to do ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAD ABDUL so. Now, Sir, I said, "when it became RAHMAN clear to me", and now I would like to The Minister of Home Affairs and substantiate why I said it became clear Minister of Justice (Dato' Dr Ismail): to me by citing the speech given by the Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to make a Honourable Member. He said, "I speak complaint of breach of privilege against under Head S. 45, Ministry of Justice. the Honourable Member for Meng­ The sum of money asked for obviously lembu. The circumstances in which the is intended to be spent, so that those breach of privilege occurred were briefly concerned with the administration of as follows. During the proceedings in justice could be sufficiently remunerated the Committee of Supply on the Supple­ for the work done by them. It is mentary Supply Bill, 1965 . . . . important, therefore, that the persons to whom these salaries are paid must Dato' S. P. Seenivasagam: Mr Spea­ feel secure in their office and should ker, Sir, under what Standing Order? not be .... ", and then he was inter­ rupted. From that, I have said, that it Mr Speaker: I believe that the was clear to me at least that he was Minister is bringing the matter to the debating on the policy and not on the notice of the House to take it to the details. So, I rose on a point of order. Committee of Privileges. Sir, when I rose on the point of order, the Honourable Member for Meng­ Dato' S. P. Seenivasagam: Mr Spea­ lembu, instead of stopping, kept on ker, Sir, before a Member raises some­ speaking, saying this, and I quote him thing, it must come under some Sir, "I am giving my reasons"-that is Standing Order. If it is open to the addressing the Chairman-"! am giving Honourable Minister to say that, I my reasons and then it is up to you, could also get up and make a statement Sir, to give your ruling". Then he that I want somebody to be taken up continued, saying "I say I am able to to the Committee of Privileges. I do speak and to say that if we are going not say he cannot, but I am to pay this money to these persons, ignorant as to what Standing Order. they must be allowed to carry on their duties without intimidation from the Dato' Dr Ismail: It has been the Prime Minister or from anybody else." practice, if there is any complaint of And then I interrupted him again, Sir, breach of privilege, that any Honour­ I said, "Mr Chairman, Sir, you should able Member can bring it to the House give your ruling right away. I do not 7191 25 MARCH 1966 7192 want that to be recorded in the Hansard is to be heard". Then I said, Sir, "No. at all". My point there, Sir, is that if I am standing on a point of order. we had allowed the Honourable It is not a dictatorship". So, then I Member to keep on continuing speaking said, "I demand an apology again" as he started, then there is no point in from the Honourable Member. The my rising on a point of order, and that Honourable Member said, "You can was why I said I wanted that thing to demand whatever you like". And Mr be struck off the record of the Hansard. Chairman, said, "You are not allowed Then, Sir, the Honourable Member to point that one out"; and the said, "I want to know what the ruling Honourable Member said, "I did not is, Sir. Otherwise how can I know what hear the ruling, Sir"; and then Mr I can speak and what I cannot speak". Chairman said, "I will not allow you Then the Chairman said, "I have stated to speak on this point", and then the Standing Order 67 (5). You understand Honourable Member said, "Which what I have said just now? Standing point, Sir?", and then the Chairman Order 67 (5)-you understand what I said, "The point I mentioned just now have said just now Standing Order 67 on 67 (5).". (5) applied. That is my ruling". Now, Sir, the point that I am going Now, Sir, my point in submitting that to make is this : I am raising this as there is a breach of privilege by the a matter of principle in the interest Honourable Member for Menglembu is of the dignity of this House. We are this. When I rose as a Member of this in Parliament; we belong to different House to exercise my right as given political parties, and we have the right under Standing Order to interrupt on a to disagree. But, we have Standing point of order, I have every right to Orders in this House and every Mem­ exercise my right, whether I am right or ber has a right, if he complies with wrong, it is for the Chairman to rule Standing Order to say his speech in me, but it is stated in the Standing the House without any Member Order that a Member can rise on a accusing him of practising dictatorship. point of order and that I did, and I So, I submit that there is a case to be quoted the relevant Standing Order as submitted to the Privileges Committee, to why I have stood up asking for a Sir. point of order-that was my right, Sir. And then to accuse that I am practising Mr Speaker: You want to say some­ dictatorship in doing so, as the Honour­ thing? able Member for Menglembu did, I think that is very offensive and contrary Dato' S. P. Seenivasagam: With your to the spirit and the practice of any permission Sir, I submit with respect, House of Parliament-i.e., to accuse a that there has been no breach of any Member using his right to speak, privilege, that every Member of this quoting the Standing Order and to call House is entitled to have his say, that him practising dictatorship, I think that all I said to the Honourable Minister is not parliamentary and it contravenes was, when he said-he was dictating the privilege of a member of this to Mr Chairman-"! do not want that House. to be recorded". "Give your ruling straight away". It is no business of Now, Sir, I will quote him. First of any Member of this House to dictate all, I said, "Mr Speaker, Sir, you should to Mr Chairman. He should have give your ruling right away, Sir, I do allowed Mr Chairman to give his ruling not want that to be recorded in the instead of dictating to Mr Chairman, Hansard at all" -that means that his "I do not want this to go into Hansard." continuation of his speech, which he That I submit was dictating and that began, because as I said just now; that was what I had in mind when I sajd if he kept on speaking, there is no that he was practising dictatorship. point in my getting up on a point of He was trying to have his say but he order. Then the Honourable Member was trying to prevent me saying it­ said, "Why not? That is another dicta­ and that is exactly what he was doing. torship. I am not to be heard but he I submit that this is a frivolous and 7193 25 MARCH 1966 7194 petty matter, which should never have Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, been raised this morning. It does not Sir, may I seek a clarification from the contribute at all to the dignity of this Honourable Deputy Prime Minister? House. On the Order Paper there is not only Government business, there is also Mr Speaker: However, I will accede Opposition business. I will be happier to the request made by the Honourable if he says, "all the business as laid Minister that this be heard by the down in the Order Paper be com­ Committee of Privileges. Then the pleted, this House shall not rise." Committee of Privileges will go over Otherwise, is this House only to rubber­ the whole matter again and will make stamp Government business? The a ruling. Honourable Member for Tanjong has business befme this House. I have BREACH OF PRIVILEGE BY business before this House, as shown THE HONOURABLE PRIME in the Order Paper. MINISTER Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, it is COMPLAINT BY THE HONOUR­ laid down in the Standing Orders that ABLE ENCHE' D. R. SEENI- the Government shall take precedence V ASAGAM (IPOH) over Private Members' business. The Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Mr Spea­ time taken by this House depends ker, Sir, I take leave to report to this largely on the length of speeches made House and to you, Mr Speaker, Sir, a by the Honourable Members of the notice of breach of privilege made Opposition. I am prepared to, be fair yesterday by the Honourable the Prime to the Members of the Opposition, to Minister of this House, and I ask that give them time, but they must try the matter be referred to the and curtail their speeches, and do not Committee of Privileges. try to' talk too much and take too much time of this House. There is not much Mr Speaker: That is not in order, business at this sitting, Sir. However, because it should have been made at we have taken so much time over the the time and with a written notice to Supplementary Supply Bill that there me. You did not give me any notice of is less time now left for other business. this statement. But if the Honourable Members of the Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Then, Opposition would endeavour to curtail Sir, under what Standing Order? No­ their speeches and speak to the point, body else was able to tell me. But, any­ it would still be possible, in the course way, I will give written notice that I of the day and this evening, to com­ want to bring up the matter of breach plete all the business of this House in­ of privilege for false allegation by the cluding the Private Members' business. Prime Minister in due course. Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of Mr Speaker: This matter will be clarification, Mr Speaker, Sir, the taken to the Committee of Privileges. Honourable Deputy Prime Minister seeks to lay the blame for taking up EXEMPTED BUSINESS the time of this House on the Opposi­ (MOTION) tion Members. If an analysis is made The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun Haji of the speeches made in this House Abdul Razak): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg during the current sitting, I am sure to move, that more time is taken in terms of parity of numbers by the Government That notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 12 (1) the House shall not Members than by us on this side of the be adjourned this day until the completion House. of all Government business set down in the Order Paper for today. Mr Speaker: Perhaps, the time is Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, I beg to taken up by the Honourable Member second the motion. himself? (Laughter). 7195 25 MARCH 1966 7196 Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato ceedings of the Municipality of lpoh Kra~at): Mr Speaker, can we debate and, with your permission, Mr Speaker, this? Sir, I shall read a bit of it. It says here: Mr Speaker: No. This is a motion "Mr Seenivasagam was replying to a proposed by the Deputy Prime Minis­ remark by Mr Chew Peng Loong, one of ter. the two Alliance Members in the 18-Mem­ ber Council, who had earlier said that he was not happy with an item in the budget. Enche' Lim Kean Siew: I am just This was the decision by the Municipal asking you because you have allowed Council to raise assessment rates on all so many Members to speak. holdings in the town to meet the council's contribution of $370,000 to the Central Mr Speaker: That is how time is Government towards education." wasted (Laughter). Then, it does say, that another Councillor would raise the matter on Question put, and agreed to. collection of education rates from local Resolved, authorities at the appropriate time. That notwithstanding the provisions of Mr Speaker, Sir, in this connection I Standing Order 12 (1) the House shall not be adjourned this day until the completion wish also to read a protest by an of all Government business set down in the Alliance Council "member of the Order Paper for today. Kuantan Town Council. In talking lbout this, Enche' Tajuddin bin Haji ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE Chik, Alliance Member for Telok (MOTION) Sisek Timor, made the accusation that the Alliance Councillors and Cabinet Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr Speaker, Ministers were suppressing the people. Sir, I beg to move, He said "The poor people are made to That at its rising today, the House shall bear a lot already without heaping stand adjourned sine die. another tax on them. The introduction Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, I beg to of the education rate would be too second the motion. much for them to shoulder." Mr Speaker, Sir, there you are, you have Question put, and agreed to. an Alliance Councillor himself who says that this imposition is too much Resolved, for them. That at its rising today, the House shall stand adjourned sine die. The Straits Times in its editorial of the 15th November, 1965, says that the BILLS $5 million is a derisory sum measured THE EDUCATION (AMENDMENT) against the education rates standing this year at $320.3 million. It said that BILL the odd thing is that the Government Second Reading dropped the education rates after a Order read for resumption of debate previous trial on the argument that the on motion, "That the Bill be now read anticipated yield of $5 million was not a second time" (24th March, 1966). worth the trouble. Mr Speaker, Sir, thus we can see that the imposition Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, has been tried and been found wanting. Sir, may I resume where I left off Consequently, I am surprised that the yesterday? Minister of Education has sought to reintroduce it again in this House. But Mr Speaker: You may. Mr Speaker, Sir, the imposition, small as it is, raises a very important point Dr Tan Chee Khoon: I will be very of principle. The reason for the imposi­ brief. Sir. As I was saying yesterday, tion of this education rate is that the there has been a good deal of opposi­ expenditure on education is spiral­ tion by the various town councils. I ling-it has gone up to $320.3 million have here a press cutting of the pro- this year. Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, what 7197 25 MARCH 1966 7198 if other Ministries choose to adopt the rate then formed part of the revenue same method of bolstering up their of the Government and collection of revenue? We know that expenditure on the education rate in its present form defence this year takes up $260 started in 1962 under the provisions million, I suppose. Supposing the of the Education Ordinance, 1961, and Minister of Defence comes to this subsequently some of the provisions House and asked for a similar rate on education rate in the Education and imposes it on the various town Ordinance, 1961, were amended by the councils and Municipal councils, city Education (Amendment) Act, 1963 councils, and on the various States, and and due to imperfection in the present supposing the Minister of Health, law the education rate was not, to my whose expenditure is $119 million for best knowledge, collected in some this year, comes to this House also States in Malaya in 1962 and 1963, for a similar imposition, I shudder to when the law relating to education rate think of what the poor taxpayer in was in force in Malaya. After studying this country has to bear. the existing law on education rate and the amendments in the Bill before the ln conclusion, Mr Speaker, Sir, I House, I am of the opinion that these must reiterate that education is a amendments are necessary and would Federal matter, and the buck should remove the legal possibility that the not be passed on to the various town rich and the poor may have to pay the councils, municipalities and city same rate of education rate for lands councils to raise, or to the various outside local authorities. States, to raise the money for them. The second thing is that while I agree The Hon'ble Member for Batu that nothing is free in this world, that stated that the rich tin miners should we must find money for education, but have to pay more than the rubber there are other means of raising smallholders and the padi planters. If revenue, and I have suggested to the we look at this Bill, we shall be able to Hon'ble Minister one method, whereby see that this Bill would enable the not just $5 million, but perhaps $50 Government to collect a higher educa­ million, can be raised by the method tion rate from mining lands and from of levying a tax on all bills incurred valuable lands outside local authorities. at various hotels and restaurants in this country. Thank you, Sir. Under the existing law lands, which are not paying any rent, are exempted Enche' Tiah Eng Bee (Kluang from paying education rate but in this Utara): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to give Bill we can see that such lands will also my support to this amendment Bill, have to pay education rate. So, the as the object of this Bill as explained Hon'ble Member for Batu will see by our Honourable Minister of Educa­ from this Bill that the allegation by tion is to remove defects in the existing him that education rate would be borne law for the proper and fair imposition unfairly by the small landowners are of the education rate and to improve unjustified. the administrative machinery for its From the press I also notice that any proper collection at the lowest possible padi land under five acres is exempted rate. from paying education rate. There is If the Honourable Member for Batu no doubt, Sir, that all of us would has done sufficient homework before like to have anything for nothing. With criticising this Bill yesterday and this the payment of expenditure for defence motning, I am sure he would agree and a great demand for education. I that this amendment Bill is necessary. am sure all will agree with me that it The collection of this education rate is necessary to tap additional revenue is not new in this country, and the to meet part of the cost of educatiOn. Hon'ble Member for Batu would recall Thank you, Sir. that the properties in Municipal and Town Boards have been paying educa­ Enche' Mohd. Daud bin Abdul tion rate from the early 1920s and tliis Samad (Besot): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, 7199 25 MARCH 1966 7200 saya ingin berchakap sadikit di-dalam terpaksa pula membayar chukai pela­ pindaan Rang Undang2 berkenaan jaran ini. dengan Chukai Pelajaran ini. Tuan Jadi, saya harap-lah supaya Menteri Yang di-Pertua, masaalah yang ada Pelajaran mengkaji dan menimbang­ di-hadapan kita ia-lah beberapa chukai kan chukai ini supaya ra'ayat bumi­ telah di-kenakan dan basil daripada putera atau pun bangsa Melayu tidak chukai2 ini, sama ada di-napi atau pun 2 akan terhalang daripada ikut serta tidak ia-lah bahawa barang di-dalam dalam mendapatkan pelajaran tingg1 negeri ini telah pun naik harga dan bagi anakZ mereka. Tuan Yang di­ ra'ayat jelata terpaksa berbelanja lebeh Pertua, apa yang kita fahamkan daripada dahulu. Tuan Yang di­ bahawa chukai pelajaran ini akan Pertua, sekarang ini chukai pelajaran di-kenakan kapada tanah getah satu pula-sunggoh pun, kalau tidak salah ringgit satu ekar dan kapada tanah ingatan saya, bahawa perchubaan lombong satu ringgit juga satu ekar. telah di-lakukan pada tahun 1963 Sedangkan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya untok mengenakan chukai pdajaran rasa tanah getah, tanah padi yang per­ ini tetapi telah gagal mungkin oleh bezaan-nya amat jauh sa-kali dengan kerana hampir dengan pilehan raya. tanah lombong. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Jadi sekarang ini sa-sudah lepas sa-panjang yang saya fahamkan mithal­ pilehan raya maka di-kemukakan nya, di-lombong bijeh Bukit Besi di­ kembali chukai pelajaran akan di­ Dungun, Trengganu, sudah pun bebe­ kenakan kapada ra'ayat yang men­ rapa puloh tahun menjalankan kerja­ dudoki di-dalam Municipality dan di­ nya di-lombong itu tetapi kawasan itu luar, ia-itu di-dalam Local Authority. yang sa-benar-nya, Tuan Yang di­ Pertua, apa yang saya telah di-beri­ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bila kita tahukan tidak-lah luas hanya lebeh perhatikan kedudokan ra'ayat di-luar kurang 750 ekar sahaja kawasan itu bandar, maka nyata-lah ra'ayat bumi­ yang pada masa yang lampau pehak putera yang lebeh ramai sa-kali dan 2 Kerajaan Negeri Trengganu mendapat sadikit sahaja ra'ayat bumiputera yang hasil-nya daripada lombong 750 ekar mendudoki di-dalam Municipality ini. itu lebeh kurang 8 juta atau pun 9 juta Jadi, apa yang saya ingin menarek sa-tahun. Jadi kalau di-kenakan ka­ perhatian di-dalam Rumah yang pada tanah lombong satu ringgit satu mulia ini bahawa ra'ayat bumiputera ekar, tanah padi yang lebeh daripada atau pun bangsa Melayu di-dalam lima ekar satu ringgit satu ekar, dan negeri ini sa-sudah di-beri penerangan, 2 tanah getah di-kenakan satu ringgit di-buat cheramah dan di-kejutkan di­ satu ekar, maka nyata-lah kedudokan dalam zaman pembangunan, tegas-nya chukai pelajaran ini tidak membei:i di-dalam soal pelajaran ini maka nafas atau pun tidak memberi per­ bangsa Melayu telah mula ingin ber­ tolongan dan pertimbangan kapada lumba2 atau pun chuba ikut beserta di­ 2 ra'ayat yang pendapatan-nya kechil, dalam memajukan anak mereka di­ tetapi di-beri pertimbangan dan ke­ dalam lapangan pelajaran rendah, 'adilan itu kapada tanah lombong atau menengah dan sa-terus-nya kapada pun tuan punya tanah lombong yang universiti. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, di­ mempunyai: pendapatan yang, kalau tengah2 perchubaan dan kesedaran ini, kata saya barangkali sa-ratus kali maka chukai pelajaran akan di-kena­ ganda, mungkin pehak Menteri Pela­ kan pula kapada tanah getah, lombong jaran akan mengatakan terlampau dan tanah padi kalau tidak salah, yang sangat, tetapi saya mengatakan ber­ lebeh daripada lima ekar. Jadi, Tuan ganda2 lebeh pendapatan dalam tiapz Yang di-Pertua, nyata-lah bahawa satu ekar itu. bangsa Melayu atau pun bumiputera Jadi ini-lah masaalah-nya, Tuan dalam negeri ini akan terkejut dan Yang di-Pertua, besar-lah harapan saya mereka ini akan terasa kesal clan patah supaya soal mengenakan chukai pela­ hati oleh kerana mereka hidup dengan jaran ini di-kaji dan di-beri pertim­ keadaan miskin dan tidak ada mem­ bangan yang sa-patut2 dan sa-'adil2-nya punyai pendapatan yang tetap dan mengikut pendapatan tiap2 tuan punya 7201 25 MARCH 1966 7202 tanah getah, tanah padi dan tanah kan atau pun di-tanggohkan sa­ lombong itu. kurang2-nya kapada mana2 tuan punya Tuan Yang di-Pertua, masaalah tanah padi yang kena benchana 'alam chukai ini saya yakin dan perchaya, banjir besar ini untok ra'ayat ber­ sama ada di-bangkang atau pun tidak, nafas buat sementara waktu untok Kerajaan akan mengenakan juga. Jadi, memulehkan kehidupan mereka itu. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dalam tahun Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Yang di­ sudah pehak Kerajaan sendiri telah Pertua, ra'ayat telah tiga empat bulan pun menghantar rombongan daripada di-dalam kesejokan, kesihatan mereka Pejabat Kebajikan Masharakat ber­ telah lumpoh dan banyak telah pergi sama dengan Pegawai Pertanian dan ka-hospital kerana sakit. Saya tidak Sharikat Kerjasama daripada Kemen­ tahu sama ada Menteri Kesihatan yang terian Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerja­ ada di-hadapan saya ini telah men­ sama untok menyiasat kedudokan dapat report atau pun telah meng­ banjir besar yang telah berlaku di­ hantar penyiasatan atau pun tidak. negeri Trengganu atau di-negeri Tetapi sa-panjang apa yang saya tahu Kelantan. Maka saya yakin dan per­ dan saya lihat bahawa kedudokan chaya walau bagaimana pun laporan­ kesihatan ra'ayat di-mana yang kena nya itu belum pun di-sampaikan ka­ banjir itu amat dahshat dan saya ber­ pada Rumah yang mulia ini atau pun seru kapada pehak Kerajaan supaya kapada pehak Kerajaan, tetapi tidak memberi peruntokan yang lebeh dapat di-nafikan bahawa beberapa banyak pada Menteri Kesihatan ini kawasan termasok kawasan saya di­ untok belanja menghantar penyiasat, Besut; padi telah hanchor atau pun kalau boleh, atau pun pakar atau musnah daripada banjir besar ini, dan bagaimana untok membena balek mereka di-sana sekarang ini, Tuan kesihatan ibu bapa dan kanak2 yang Yang di-Pertua, sudah puchat kuning telah kena banjir itu. Sebab, Tuan sebab padi lama itu sudah tidak ada Yang di-Pertua, soal kesihatan ini dan padi yang di-tanam-nya itu telah ada kait mengait-nya dalam soal hanchor. Jadi ini pula akan di-kenakan pelajaran bagi anak2 mereka. Kalau chukai pelajaran kapada mereka itu. ibu bapa sudah tidak sehat maka anak2 juga akan ikut sama tidak Jadi saya harap-lah supaya sa­ sehat oleh kerana mereka tidak akan kurang2-nya di-mana tanah padi, walau dapat membelanjakan kapada anak2 pun lima ekar ka-atas, yang telah kena membeli makanan yang mempunyai benchana 'alam banjir besar ini, di­ zat2 yang baik bagi membenakan tanggohkan buat sementara untok kesihatan mereka itu untok anak2 ra'ayat bernafas sa-hingga mereka mereka itu berlumba2 di-dalam per­ dapat memulehkan kehidupan mereka lumbaan menuju kapada kemajuan di-dalam soal menanam padi atau pun pelajaran yang sedang menjadi per­ pendapatan padi ini. Tetapi kalau lumbaan dan kemajuan yang hebat tidak di-tanggohkan, di-bebankan juga di-Malaysia ini. dengan chukai pelajaran ini, saya per­ 2 Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya suka­ chaya-lah petani yang menanam padi chita menarek perhatian kapada per­ itu walau pun mungkin pehak Kera­ kembangan pelajaran di-dalam negeri jaan akan menyatakan bahawa kita ini dan kenyataan yang akhir saya da­ telah menyediakan beberapa kawasan pat di-dalam surat khabar yang ber­ tali ayer dan mereka telah pun dapat tarikh 25 haribulan ia-itu hari ini, dan membuat padi dua kali sa-tahun, saya saya memohon izin kapada Tuan ingin menyampaikan di-dalam Rumah Yang di-Pertua untok membachakan yang mulia ini bahawa maseh banyak sadikit sa-banyak chabutan daripada lagi di-negeri Trengganu atau di-Besut, surat khabar Utusan Melayu yang ber­ di-tempat saya, tempat yang tidak ada tarikh pada 25 haribulan ...... tali ayer dan ra'ayat belum dapat membuat padi dua kali sa-tahun. Dan Mr Speaker: Saya suka hendak itu-lah yang saya merayu kapada mengingatkan kapada Ahli Yang Ber­ Kerajaan dan, tegas-nya kapada hormat masa kita suntok, jadi kalau Menteri Pelajaran, supaya di-timbang- boleh pendek2kan sadikit. 7203 25 MARCH 1966 7204 Enche' Mohd. Daud bin Abdul bahawa Sekolab Kebangsaan ini maseh Samad: Terima kaseh, Tuan Yang di­ lagi tidak di-lengkapkan dan di­ Pertua1 dan saya harap saya dapat-lah dapati perhatian yang sunggoh2 bagi peluang sadikit kerana hari ini sudah mendapat lebeh ramai lagi atau pun masok hari yang kelima. meninggikan lagi percentage murid2 yang akan dapat dudok di-Sekolah Mr Speaker: Hari yang kelima ada Menengah Kebangsaan dan akan dapat had-nya. Bila habis sekarang, kerja ta' masok kapada University, mungkin habis lagi, terpaksa dudok lama. Bila pehak Menteri Pelajaran akain men­ dudok lama, saya tengok Ahli2 ta' ada jawab dan akan mengatakan bahawa, di-sini. Chuba pendekkan sadikit. soal ini, ibu bapa bangsa Melayu atau pun bumiputera, belum, dengan sa­ Enche' Mohd. Daud bin Abdul 2 2 Samad: Saya chuba pendekkan, Tuan chara bersunggoh , mengawal anak Yang di-Pertua. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, mercka itu. ini kenyataan yang telab di-buat oleb Yang Berbormat Menteri Pelajaran Mungkin jawapan-nya akan bagitu, sendiri. Chabutan yang saya bendak tetapi biar-lah, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bachakan bagini bunyi-nya: "Menga­ saya ingin menarek perhatian Men­ lehkan uchapan-nya kapada kejayaan teri Pelajaran dengan di-kenakan pelajaran menengab kebangsaan negeri chukai pelajaran ini, maka ra'ayat ini beliau berkata murid2 mendudoki akan terpaksa membayar lagi chukai, tingkatan pelajaran itu telah meningkat sedangkan kita tahu sekarang ini ka-angka 609,000 orang di-bandingkan bangsa Melayu, atau pun ra'ayat dengan 600 orang murid2 pada tahun bumiputera dalam negeri ini, hendak 1958 apabila sekolab menengab bahasa beli buku text pun tidak mampu, ada kebangsaan di-buka. Hasil daripada di-satengab2 ibu bapa terpaksa me­ rentikan anak-nya daripada sekolah, 600 murid2 itu, kata Enche' Khir lagi, 2 maka sa-ramai 31 orang telab memasoki dan sa-tengah itu pula, Tuan Yang di­ University tahun lalu. Pada tahun ini Pertua, buku text-nya itu tidak chu­ sa-ramai 54 orang pelajar dari aliran kup. Jadi ini juga saya harap, oleh bahasa kebangsaan akan memasoki kerana perangkaan di-Sekolah Ke­ University. Menteri Pelajaran itu juga bangsaan atau pun sekolah di-jenis ke­ telab mengumumkan akan membuka bangsaan juga ada. soal tidak chukup sa-buah darjah tingkatan enam di­ buku text, ibu bapa yang mampu Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan Sultan hendak beli pun tidak ada. Jadi, ini­ Abdul Halim di-Jitra, Kooah, tidak lah saya harap supaya pehak Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajaran ber­ lama lagi. Sa-takat ini banya Sekolab 2 Alam Shah sahaja yang mempunyai unding dengan sunggob dengan pehak tingkatan enam di-dalam bahasa Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka, supaya kebangsaan. dapat melengkapkan buku2 alatan dan segala2-nya bagi membolehkan, bukan Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dengan ke­ sahaja banyak sekolab yang di-diri, nyataan yang akhir, yang telah di­ bukan sahaja banyak murid2 yang kita terangkan oleh Yang Berhormat Men­ banggakan, tetapi basil kelulusan itu­ teri Pelajaran, maka nyata-lah bahawa, lab patut di-ambil perbatian, dan di­ anak2 bangsa Melayu atau pun bumi­ putera di-dalam negeri ini, walau pun siasat dan di-fikirkan di-ubati, di-mana­ kab silap dan salab-nya yang mesti Sekolah Menengah Bahasa Kebangsaan 2 telah berjalan pada tahun 1958, di­ di-sempurnakan mana yang belum mulakan dengan 600 orang dan seka­ sempurna. Sebab apa, Tuan Yang di­ rang ini telab meningkat pada 609,000 Pertua, kalau kita banding dengan orang, tetapi basil daripada murid2 itu Sekolah Jenis Kebangsaan tidak timbul yang dapat masok ka-University yang soal tidak chukup guru, tidak chukup menggunakan bahasa Kebangsaan buku text, tidak chukup itu dan tidak tahun sudah 31 orang dan tahun ini chukup ini. Tetapi, mungkin pebak akan masok pula 54 orang. Dengan ke­ Menteri Pelajaran akan menjawab ka­ dudokan yang sa-macham ini, Tuan pada saya, mengatakan bahawa Se­ Yang di-Pertua, kalau kita mengatakan kolah Jenis Kebangsaan ini tidak 7205 25 MARCH 1966 7206 banyak-sadikit, tetapi, Sekolah Ke­ Enche' Mohd. Daud bin Abdul bangsaan ini banyak. Sunggoh pun Samad: Terima kaseh, tuan. Tuan bagitu saya rasa dan saya yakin ba­ Yang di-Pertua, Sekolah Menengah hawa usaha dan ikhtiar akan dapat di­ Atas akan di-bangunkan lagi sa-buah tumpukan dengan sunggoh2-nya su­ di-Jitra, Kedah dan sa-bagaimana saya paya di-perlengkapkan apa2 yang katakan tadi University College akan maseh kurang di-dalam soal, atau pun di-bangunkan di-Pulau Pinang, tetapi di-Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan ini, di-Pantai Timor tidak. dan saya suka menarek perhatian pula kapada soal murid2 Melayu yang lulus Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail (Kuala F.M.C. di-Sekolah Menengah Jenis Ke­ Trenggano Utara): Chukai pelajaran bangsaan. atau soal dasar pelajaran? Nampak­ nya Ahli Yang Berhormat itu sudah Baharu2 ini kita telah membacha di­ menyeleweng jauh daripada dasar per­ dalam surat khabar Utusan Melayu, kara yang di-binchangkan. ia-itu pehak ibu bapa Negeri Treng­ ganu telah menjemput Dr Ungku Raja Enche' Mohd. Daod bin Abdul Omar, membuat cheramah di­ Samad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, me­ Trengganu, sa-hinggakan doktor itu mang sudah menjadi tabi'at wakil memberi tahu kapada ibu bapa di­ daripada Kuala Trengganu Utara ini, Trengganu mengatakan sa-patut-lah tidak senang. Jikalau saya berchakap ibu bapa mengadakan sekolah sendiri dia mesti ganggu sebab itu tugas yang membena dan membangun sekolah tertentu telah di-terima oleh Kerajaan­ sendiri, untok memberi pelajaran lan­ nya dan itu-lah kerja-nya orang yang jut kaP'ctda murid2 yang dapat Grade keluar daripada University Azhar yang III. yang telah lulus di-Sekolah Ing­ balek ka-sini. geris atau pun Sekolah J enis Ke­ bangsaan ini. Jadi, ini juga saya harap Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soal chukai supaya pehak Menteri Pelajaran me­ pelajaran, ada kait mengait-nya dengan ngambil perhatian, sebab-nya, saya soal pelajaran, itu tidak dapat di-nafi­ tidak yakin bahawa pehak Kerajaan kan dan kita bahath ini bukan di­ Perikatan dan pehak Menteri Pela­ dalam Committee State, ini ada-lah jaran, yang akan dapat chukai banyak di-dalam Rang Undang2-patut di­ ini, sudah tidak dapat memikirkan faham oleh wakil dari Kuala Treng­ soal kanak2 yang lulus dan dapat ganu Utara. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Grade III itu tidak dapat meneruskan saya harap-lah supaya pehak Menteri pelajaran-nya, di-ikhtiar dan di­ Pelajaran mengalehkan pandangan dan fikirkan untok sampai kapada Univer­ pemikiran-nya pula supaya mengada­ sity. Dan saya rasa bangga benar, kan kelas menengah atas kebangsaan, walau pun dahulu, kelas Menengah kalau saya sebut, mithal di-Kelantan, ia-itu negeri yang di-perentah oleh Atas ini hanya ada satu, di-Sekolah 2 Alam Shah sahaja dan mengikut ke­ PAS, tetapi di-Trengganu di-tengah nyataan ini bahawa akan di-adakan Pantai Timor, di-antara Kelantan dan lagi satu di-negeri Kedah di-Jitra. Tuan Pahang itu sudah sa-patut-nya-lah Yang di-Pertua, University College, mesti di-adakan kelas saperti itu. Dan pun akan di-buka di-Pulau Pinang, sa-terus-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kalau ta' salah saya ...... saya menyokong, walau pun di-uchap­ kan oleh pehak wakil Perikatan tetapi, Mr Speaker: Berapa lama lagi-kah apa yang baik saya menyokong, ia-itu Ahli Yang Berhormat hendak chakap? pehak Kerajaan sendiri, ia-itu wakil Kuala Trengganu Selatan, telah pun Enche' Mohd. Daud bin Abdul merayu kapada pehak Menteri Pela­ Samad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ta' lama jaran supaya dapat mengadakan Uni­ lagi. versiti Kebangsaan dengan sa-berapa chepat yang boleh dan pehak Menteri Mr Speaker: Ini 40 minit sudah; Pelajaran, telah menjawab dalam surat jadi, kalau sa-saorang hendak chakap khabar ini, mengatakan bahawa soal 40 minit ta' ada kita, tolong pendek­ maha guru, soal itu, dan soal ini, kan sahaja-lah. banyak persoalan-nya, yang tidak 7207 25 MARCH 1966 7208 dapat kita hendak selesaikan dengan Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: mudah. Jadi, itu-lah bagaimana yang Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada pepatah saya katakan tadi ini ada-lah nasib Melayu mengatakan sa-orang yang pelajaran bahasa kebangsaan. Bila bodoh itu tidak ketara bodoh-nya hendak sampai kapada masaalah melainkan sa-telah dia berchakap. bahasa kebangsaan, banyak-lah keku­ rangan-nya tetapi, kalau kapada Uni­ Enche' Mohd. Daud bin Abdul versiti, jenis kebangsaan itu tidak Samad: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya timbul masaalah kerumitan ini. minta penjelasan ...... Jadi, ini-lah masaalah yang sudah Mr Speaker: Apa ada kena-mengena pun menjadi tanda tanya kapada pemi­ dengan perkara itu. 2 kiran orang Melayu dan bumiputera Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: dalam negeri ini dan serba salah 2 Daripada perchakapan sa-saorang itu­ mereka itu hendak menghantar anak - lah, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kita tahu nya sekarang ini. Hendak hantar dia itu orang yang ada pelajaran­ ka-Sekolah Kebangsaan, Universiti orang yang lulus Universiti atau yang Kebangsaan belum ada lagi dan yang tidak ada satu apa pun-orang yang boleh masok Universiti pun 54 champor kosong sahaja. Dan sebab itu-lah, Tuan 31 baharu 85 orang dan hantar pergi Yang di-Pertua, saya menegor Ahli Sekolah Inggeris pula dudok jauh Yang Berhormat daripada Besut tadi dengan bandar, belanja banyak-ta' dalam membinchangkan perkara ini. mampu. Jadi, ini-lah masaalah yang Kita membinchangkan perkara chukai patut di-fikir dan di-pertimbangkan. pelajaran ...... Akhir-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Enche' Mohd. Daud bin Abdul berhubong dengan kanak2 belajar ini Samad: Untok penjelasan ...... saya harap mendapat perhatian dari­ pada Menteri Pengangkutan walau pun Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: dia tidak ada dalam Rumah yang mulia Saya tidak beri jalan, Tuan Yang di­ ini, bahawa di-Trengganu, saya harap Pertua. Sebab itu-lah maka saya mene· di-perhatikan bahawa Trengganu Com­ gor Ahli Yang Berhormat tadi bila dia pany Bus itu saya lihat bahawa bas­ menyeleweng jauh daripada pokok per­ nya itu sudah burok dan selalu di­ binchangan kita dalam soal pelajaran. Besut, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, budak2 Pada akhir tadi pun dia telah menye­ yang daripada Jerteh, Kuala Besut leweng juga sampai kapada pengang­ yang pergi ka-Sekolah Tunku Mahmud kutan yang tidak ada sangkut-paut; yang letak-nya di-tengah2 itu kadang2 saya tidak kuasa-lah hendak bangkit pukul 8 lebeh, baharu di-bawa-nya lagi, kita yang dalam Dewan ini pakai ka-sekolah dan kadang2 di-tinggal-nya tahan telinga sahaja-lah. terus. Jadi, saya perchaya-lah bas Tuan Yang di-Pertua, chukai pela­ itu tidak chukup dan bas itu mungkin jaran ini yang nampak chuba hendak telah lama sangat. J adi, barangkali 2 di-bangkang oleh Ahli Yang Berhor­ kadang di-baiki. Jadi, saya harap mat dari PAS dari Besut dan Ahli dan saya berseru kapada Menteri daripada Parti Buroh, saya merasa satu Pengangkutan supaya di-perhatikan perkara yang kita berhadapan dengan soal ini kalau mithal-nya Treng­ keadaan yang patut kita memberi ganu Bus Company itu sudah tidak jawapan yang tegas. Bahawa pelajaran mampu menjalankan dan menyem­ satu perkara yang makin memakan purnakan kehendak kanak2 sekolah belanja yang lebeh besar, bahawa dari­ ini, lebeh baik dia serah sahaja, dan pada belanja $90 juta 10 tahun yang kita beri-lah peluang kapada MARA lalu, sekarang menjadi $300 juta atau masok ka-Trengganu pula di-dalam dekat $400 juta sudah tiga atau empat soal menjalankan bas ini supaya kanak2 kali ganda. Dan keadaan pelajaran yang terpaksa belajar dari jauh itu kita makin meningkat dan keadaan dapat pergi ka-sekolah dengan masa pelajaran kita telah membuka satu yang betul dan tidak ketinggalan. lapangan baharu dengan memberi pela­ Sekian-lah, Tuan Yang di-Pertua. jaran perchuma sa-hingga 9 tahun. 7209 25 MARCH 1966 7210 Maka kita berhadapan dengan keadaan, suatu propaganda sahaja bagi pehak ada-kah kita hendak sanggup meng­ mereka, terima kaseh. ongkosi akan pelajaran ini atau tidak. Kalau ikut kehendak Ahli Yang Ber­ The Minister of Education (Enche' hormat dari Besut tadi terutama sa­ Mohamed Khir Johari: Tuan Yang di­ kali, kita ta' usah adakan chukai pela­ Pertua, saya terlebeh dahulu meng­ jaran tetapi pelajaran biar ada dengan uchapkan terima kaseh kapada Ahli keadaan yang sekarang. Erti-nya kita Yang Berhormat daripada Kuala harus menaikkan chukai perkara yang Trengganu Utara yang telah menjawab lain-barang2 sa-hari2, keperluan hari2 sa-tengah2 hujah yang telah di-bawa yang kelak akan di-pikul beban chukai­ oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada nya oleh orang ramai. Chukai pela­ Besut. Sa-benar-nya tujuan kita meng­ jaran menghadkan pembayaran-nya adakan pindaan bagi Undang2 Pela­ atau chukai ini hanya di-tanggong oleh jaran ia-lah untok membetulkan orang yang ada tanah 5 ekar ka-atas­ perkara2 yang kita tidak puas hati orang yang agak lega sadikit. Tetapi berkenaan dengan kutipan chukai kalau di-naikkan chukai atas barang mengikut Undang2 yang lama. Saperti yang lain, maka akan terpikul-lah mana yang saya telah sebutkan dalam semua sa-kali, orang yang hendak beli uchapan saya waktu membawa Bill ini gula pun kena tanggong, orang yang pada masa dahulu, kita menghadkan hendak beli beras pun kena tanggong kutipan chukai pelajaran itu sa-banyak dan orang yang hendak beli garam $1. kapada tanah2 ladang dan juga pun kena tanggong. Ini ada-lah masa­ kapada tanah2 yang mengeluarkan alah yang ada pada kita, untok bijeh timah. Dengan ada-nya pindaan menanggong beban pelajaran ini mahu­ ini maka dapat-lah kita menaikkan kah kita bebankan chukai yang lebeh chukai itu mengikut keadaan yang banyak, hingga kapada orang yang sesuai dengan pendapatan yang di­ tidak terdaya membayar chukai atau perolehi daripada tanah itu. Jadi kita mengenakan chukai pelajaran tujuan yang sa-benar-nya dengan macham sekarang ini yang terhad ringkas-nya pindaan ini ia-lah untok beban-nya kapada orang yang ada menchari lebeh banyak wang daripada tanah lebeh daripada 5 ekar ka-atas. mereka yang sanggup dan boleh mem­ Orang yang agak-nya bukan selalu bayar daripada kita menchari wang miskin dan selalu berat tanggongan daripada orang yang tidak dapat mem­ berikan bayaran chukai itu kapada hidup-nya. Jadi dengan keadaan ini­ kita. Jadi, satu perkara lagi yang suka lah maka tidak dapat tidak, sa-bagai saya membetulkan ia-itu apa yang di­ sa-buah negara yang hendak bangun sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dan menchapai kedudokan yang sa­ daripada Besut ia-itu chukai pelaiaran imbang, yang maju, yang jaya di­ itu telah di-tarek balek. Yang tengah2 masharakat, menggunakan pela­ sa-benar-nya chukai pelajaran itu tidak jaran sa-bagai perkara yang tidak di-tarek balek, apa yang telah berlaku dapat hendak di-elakkan dan saya ia-lah kutipan chukai itu di-gantong. merasa memang perkara ini yang sudah untok sementara dengan sebab Kera­ pun biasa di-bayar oleh orang kita, .iaan tidak puas hati dengan chara2 sa-hingga masa kita sa-belum merdeka Undamg2 yang ada pada masa itu. dahulu pun, dan bukan-lah menjadi Dengan sebab itu-lah kita mengadakan perkara yang sangat berat. Maka oleh pindaan pada hari ini. sebab itu-lah saya merasa walau macham mana pun pehak Pembang­ Berkenaan dengan apa yang di­ kang hendak mengatakan ini tidak shorkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat bagus, tetapi dalam hati mereka sen­ dari Besut tadi berkenaan dengan diri mengaku, saya perchaya, perkara tanggohan chukai-tanggohan kutipan ini tidak dapat hendak di-elakkan cukai pada tempat2 yang mendapat daripada di-jalankan. Mereka, pehak kemalangan bah, memang ini ada Pembangkang memang-lah keadaan kuasa yang di-beri oleh Undang2 yang mereka itu menchari asal ada apa ada pada hari ini kapada Menteri sahaja hendak menjadikan perkara itu Pelajaran untok mengechualikan mana2 7211 25 MARCH 1966 7212 tempat yang di-fikirkan sesuai dari­ able Member for Batu. I must at the pada kutipan chukai pelajaran ini. outset tell the Honourable Member that his criticisms on the Bill have Kemudian, lagi satu perkara yang di­ been based on incorrect facts. For sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat example, he said that the education itu ia-lah berkenaan dengan murid2 rate was introduced by the Honour­ daripada aliran bahasa kebangsaan­ able Dato Thuraisingham, when he sekolah menengah yang kata-nya dari­ was the Member for Education, and pada 600 orang yang masok tahun was subsequently withdrawn as a 1958 sa-banyak 31 orang telah masok result of public protests. Similarly, he University. Pada fikiran saya bilangan contends that this Bill should also be 31 orang daripada 600 orang yang withdrawn. The education rate referred telah masok darjah2 atau pun sekolah to was, in fact, business registration menengah kebangsaan pada tahun fees imposed at that time to meet part 1958 ia-lah satu angka yang chukup of the cost of education. This educa­ besar jika di-bandingkan pada masa tion tax was withdrawn as it was levied dahulu yang mana kebanyakan dari­ 2 only on the business people. It must pada murid kita yang berada di­ also be understood in this context that sekolah2 kebangsaan chuma dapat be­ at that time there was no such thing as lajar sa-takat Darjah VI di-sekolah2 free primary education. The education rendah sahaja. rate was also imposed from pre-war Berkenaan dengan chadangan-nya on holdings in Town Board areas in supaya kita mengadakan Tingkatan some States. VI di-Sekolah2 Menengah Kebangsaan The education rate in its present di-Pantai Timor, tentu-lah Ahli Yang form was laid down in the Education Berhormat tahu pada tahun ini saya Ordinance 1961 and was implemented telah pun memulakan, buat pertama from 1962. In fact, the principle of this kali-nya, satu Darjah Tingkatan VI di­ education rate has already been Kuala Trengganu. Sunggoh pun kita accepted by this House. It was only sudah ada Tingkatan VI di-Kota the collection that was suspended for Bharu, tetapi dengan sebab permintaan the time being, in order to enable us daripada Kerajaan Trengganu dan to re-examine the law. juga daripada ibu bapa di-sana, maka kita telah dengan bersusah payah Now, the object of this Bill is to mengambil guru di-sana sini bagi me­ remove anomalies in the present law mulakan satu Tingkatan VI di-Kuala so as to impose education rate more Trengganu yang beraliran bahasa Ing­ fairly in proportion to the income from geris. Tetapi soal dapat-kah atau tidak the holdings and to improve the kita mengadakan Tingkatan VI dalam machinery for its collection. The bahasa kebangsaan di-Pantai Timor, Government is giving very careful con­ perkara itu akan di-timbangkan dan sideration to all aspects before jika ada guru2 yang sesuai untok me­ prescribing the education rate on each ngajar Tingkatan VI itu, saya mengaku type of holding. This Bill is also perkara itu akan mendapat pertim­ intended to remove defects and possible bangan yang sesuai, yang sewajar-nya, injustice in the application of educa­ daripada saya. tion rate. Berkenaan dengan perkara bas itu, The Honourable Member from Batu perkara ini saya akan sampaikan ka­ raised the point that rich people pada rakan saya Yang Berhormat should be made to pay more. A careful Menteri Pengangkutan. study into the Bill, and the speech I Sekarang ini saya suka menjawab made yesterday, would indicate that Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Batu. this is in fact the purpose of this Bill. The Honourable Member for Batu also First, I would like to thank the suggested that we should rob Peter in Honourable Member for Kluang Utara order to pay Paul. I think in the days for having replied to some of the points of Robin Hood this system, or this that have been raised by the Honour- procedure, would have been all right 7213 25 MARCH 1966 7214 for a time, but you cannot be doing education rate to be collected this year this all the time. You can go on is about $5.7 million, which is equi­ robbing Peter, but at the same time we valent to only about 1.4 per cent of must take a little bit from Paul, in the total annually recurrent expendi­ order to give back to both Peter and ture on education for the States of Paul. Malaya alone for 1966. We talk of Under the present law, a mining National Insurance, Unemployment land is subject to the maximum educa­ Insurance, and also School of Dentistry tion rate of $1 per acre per annum, and so on. The money to finance all so does a rubber holding or padi these projects must come from the holding. Any land which is not paying people and although what is meant to any rent is not liable under the existing be collected in the form of education law to pay education rate. If he studies rate is only a token amount, I think this Bill, he will be able to see these it is a good thing for us to try to anomalies being removed. The educa­ educate our people, so that they fully tion rate for mining land is no longer realise that they have also to pay subject to the maximum education rate something in order to get back some­ of $1 per acre per annum. The land thing else. Thank you, Sir. not paying rent will also be subject Question put, and agreed to. to payments of education rate. BilJ accordingly rea4 a second time I would also like to inform the and committed to a Committee of the House that the Government does not whole House. impose education rate without con­ sidering the income from the land. House immediately resolved itself There is sufficient flexibility in the Bill into a Committee on the Bill. to enable the Government to impose Bill considered in Committee. different rates for different types of land. For instance, a padi land of (Mr Speaker in the Chair) under five acres is exempted from Clauses 1 to 3 inclusive ordered to education rate. The education rate for stand part of the Bill. rubber small-holdings is now at ten per cent of the quit rent, that is Bill reported without amendment: between about 30 to 60 cents per acre, read the third time and passed. whereas the education rate for padi land, which normally concerns the THE MEDICAL REGISTRATION bumiputras, of 5 acres or more is (AMENDMENT) BILL between about 10 to 20 cents per acre. Second Reading The various education rates read by the Honourable Member for Batu from The Minister of Health (Enche' the press, refers to the existing educa­ Rahaman bin Samsudin): Mr Speaker, tion rates under the existing law. Sir, I beg to move that the Bill intituled, "an Act to amend The The Honourable Member also Medical Registration Ordinance, 1952," criticised the Government for imposing be now read a second time. Sir, the education rate whereas its policy is to purpose of this Bill is to enable give free primary education. Now, the Malaysian doctors with foreign medical provision of education, as the Honour­ degrees to practise in Malaya. Doctors able Member himself has admitted, who wish to practise in Malaya have must be paid for and cannot be to be registered under Section 9 and obtained free. In view of the current 10 of the Medical Registration Ordi­ deficit budget of the Federal Govern­ nance, 1952. Under this Ordinance ment, the levying of education rate is doctors can be registered either, (i) pro­ necessary, if the progress and develop­ visionally in order to serve a period ments of education in the country is of housemanship, or (ii) fully with or to proceed according to the present without conditions. The Ordinance pace. As I said in my speech in allows those, who have qualified from introducing this Bill, the estimated total the University of Singapore and certain 7215 25 MARCH 1966 7216 Commonwealth countries and who says, "satisfactorily served for at least have served the full period of house­ three years" will not be a sort of manship to be registered without any mechanical barrier in which a doctor condition. Doctors who come outside may serve three years and be auto­ the province of this category can be matically registrered, but that his granted registration, subject to certain service should be carefully scrutinised conditions, and these conditions are before registration is given to him. normally that they work with the Sir, I believe the purpose of this Government or with missionary Ordinance is to see that the public as bodies. well as the profession is protected from In recent years there are Malaysians, people who might profess to be who have gone to medical schools doctors. but who are not really abroad whose qualifications would doctors. Unfortunately, Sir, at the only be registrable with conditions, moment there are a lot of people in which means that they cannot go into this country who, are practising as private practice. There is a general doctors but who are not registered, shortage of doctors in Malaya, parti­ simply because we have overlooked cularly in Government service. The this problem. This is a matter which proposed amendment to the Medical I would commend to the attention of Registration Ordinance will enable a the Minister for Health, because I feel citizen of the Federation, who comes that if the public must be protected within that category that is with from quacks and from people who at foreign qualification other than those least have some form of medical from certain Commonwealth countries degree. this protection should be to be registered in two ways : first, by extended to cover the whole field. passing an examination set . by the We know, Sir, that the term "dis­ Medical Council; or second after pensary", for example, is a term which serving satisfactorily for at least three may not be used by any shop selling years with the Ministry of Health. medicines simply because it is felt that This will give a choice to a doctor a dispensary should be connected with with a foreign medical degree to go proper sale of medicines under the immediately into private practice after direction of qualified people like the examination-of course, in case he pharmacists. Unfortunately, Sir, there passes it-or to serve the Government are terms which are frequently for a period after which he can go associated with doctors but which are into private practice. It is hoped that not so covered by any ordinance. In with this amendment many Malaysian other words, there are terms which, if doctors with foreign medical degrees used, would imply that the user is a from unrecognised institutions will doctor- but these terms may be used come back and join Government by just anybody. In Kedah, for Service. Sabah and Sarawak, have their example, the term, "clinic" has become own Medical Registration Ordinances. very familiar and we have now various Action will be taken to have one clinics, like midwife clinics, eye uniform Ordinance for Malaysia in clinics, and various other clinics, and due course. Sir, I beg to move. everytime one uses the word "clinic", one usually associates it with die Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad (Kota medical profession- apart from mid­ Star Selatan): Mr Speaker, Sir, may I, wife clinic, any other clinic is usually firstly, congratulate the Government used by doctors to show the place for finally taking this step which is of consultation. Sir, we find in Kedah, long overdue. I am quite sure that for example, that there are now with the passing of this Bill, we will enrouting a number of clinics, which have more doctors available to us. I are not owned or operated by doctors; cannot say how satisfactory this new but because the term "clinic" has been method of registration will work, and used, the public has accepted that the I think time will tell, but I do hope people who practise in these so-called that the provision under (i) where it clinics are doctors. The public in 7217 25 MARCH 1966 7218 Kedah, I am afraid, are very gullible give the impression that they are and may be less sophisticated than qualified doctors. For example, one those in Kuala Lumpur and, because can buy a stethoscope-just about of this lack of sophistication, the anybody can buy a stethoscope-and people who practise in these so-called may swing this stethoscope like any clinics have got away, I would say, other doctor or hang it round his neck, with murder, because there have been and in so doing he may convince instances, I am told, where these quite a lot of people that he is a quacks, who practise at these clinics doctor. We have in this country a have given injections-and in one ruling that only you may not put up instance, at least, the patient died after a board saying that you are a doctor, the injection. I am afraid I will not be but you may use a stethoscope, or able to substantiate it, if I am asked by even with a syringe, and if you do that the Minister, but this is the story that the public is quite willing to accept goes round, and I feel that it is a you as a doctor and quite willing to story which has many things which pay. The fact that the public may lose should be known to the public in money is unimportant, but these general. This patient died, and when quacks are potentially dangerous and, the relatives threaten to report the as I have said, there have been matter to the police, the quack doctor instances where they have caused said that "If you do that, they will death, and what other damages they take the body to the hospital, where have done to the public, I will not be the doctors will not cut it up to pieces able to say. So, I feel that the time is because that is the practice." And come when we must try and consider under this threat the relatives preferred these various other things which are to accept a small settlement of a sum related to the question of protecting of money rather than to report to the the public as well as the medical pro­ police. Operating from these clinics fession from people who have no right that are to be found in most of the and no business to use terms which smaller towns in Kedah are many will make them more acceptable to the people, mainly of Indian extraction, public. Thank you, Mr Chairman. who not only stay in the clinics, but who travel into the kampongs on Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, motor cycles and profess to cure any­ Sir, if I heard the Minister rightly, he body for an agreed sum of money. has stated that in Sabah and in Sara­ There was one instance, where I wak there are different Medical happened to visit one of my consti­ Registration Ordinances, and that he tuents, and I was just in time to see would take steps to see that there is the daughter of my friend dying after uniform registration. Now, Mr Speaker, having been administered to by these Sir, the Medical Registration Ordi­ quacks, but unfortunately I cannot nance, as this Bill puts it, was first persuade them to take the matter up enacted in 1952. Since then, I believe, because they had placed some faith in there has been two amendments, and these quack doctors. I myself in this House by way of a question for written answer has asked Sir, I would like the Government to the Minister to re-write the whole consider that various terms which Medical Registration Ordinance in might give the impression that the consonance with our independent user of these terms are professional status and in consonance with the doctors should be made exclusively changed medical conditions prevailing for the use of doctors alone-just as in this country. None other than the the term "dispensary" can only be used Member for Kota Star Selatan has by a qualified pharmacist or a doctor, pointed out the abuses of the word the term "clinic" too should be used "doctor", or "clinic", or "dispensary", only by qualified doctors. and of people who should not use medical instruments, but have been There are also various other things flagrantly using such instruments and which make it very easy for people to posing as doctors, and I need not 7219 25 MARCH 1966 7220 reiterate what he has stated before sentation as between private practi­ about the hazards to the patients tioners and Government medical concerned where unqualified people doctors. Another thing is that the are allowed to use such instruments, or Medical Council deals with a good to call themselves doctors. Con­ number of cases arising from infrac­ sequently, the need for a new Medical tions of medical ethics by the medical Registration Ordinance is long over­ professionmen, some of them from the due, and I do hope that the Minister­ private practitioners; and as such, I do ! see he nods his head in agreement­ not see why the private medical practi­ will bring to this House a brand new tioners should not have representation Medical Registration Ordinance. Mr pre se in the Malayan Medical Council. Speaker, Sir, I say this because the existing legislation has many unsatis­ Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, the other factory features, and I say this as a thing that I wish to take up is the member of the Malayan Medical question of consultation. Council. Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, I do recognise that the Government is not in duty Now, we know that in this country bound when it brings this Bill or any there are nine hundred plus private other Bill, into this House to consult practioners and there are about five anyone, but I would have hoped that hundred plus Government doctors, and in the interest of harmony, that in the yet if you look at the composition of interest of better relations between the the Malayan Medical Council, it has Government and medical profession­ a predominance of Government repre­ and here I include the Government sentatives, or of representatives from doctors also-that there should be quasi-government bodies, like the consultation between the Government University of Malaya-not that I am and the medical profession before a saying that they should not be repre­ Bill of this nature is brought up. Now, sented or that the Government should I had already pointed this out to the not be represented-and I believe I Minister when the Minister introduced am right in saying that none other than the Estate Hospitals Assistants Bill. the Minister himself was belabouring There I lamented on the fact that the under the mistaken impression, and Minister had not thought it fit to con­ whether it was wilfully done, or not I sult the medical profession, and the don't know, by officials of his Ministry, Minister then possibly was on a very that the Malayan Medical Association good wicket, when he said that the Bill has a representation in the Malayan was drawn up by his predecessor, he Medical Council, where in effect the did not know anything about it, and Malayan Medical Association has, as there was no time for consultation. it is proper, no representation on the But in this instance, Mr Speaker, Sir, Malayan Medical Association. Now, I fail to comprehend, as I understand Mr Speaker, Sir, as I said before, this and I shall detail very shortly, why Malayan Medical Council has a pre­ there has been no consultation between ponderance of Government representa­ the Ministry and the medical profession. tion where Government doctors are far less than the private medical Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, there is what practitioners. Now, in any future re­ is known as the Medical Advisory writing of the Medical Registration Council. This was established by the Ordinance, I would hope that the predecessor to the present Minister as Minister will see to it that this pre­ a hope of establishing better relations ponderance of Government represen­ between the profession and the Minis­ tation should be rectified, that a certain try. I believe that the Minister himself number of seats in the Medical has addressed this Medical Advisory Council should be set aside for election Council once and he had expressed from amongst the private practitioners the hope then that this Council would themselves. This is as it should be, bring the profession into closer because for one thing there is a pre­ relationship with the Government. I ponderance, almost a two to one repre- regret to say, and here I am reliably 7221 25 MARCH 1966 7222 informed that it is correct, that this fession, in this case the Malayan council has only met once when the Medical Association. Here, I think I Minister addressed it, and it has not am right in saying that the Minister has met at all since. An offshoot of this been misled into believing that the Medical Advisory Council is what is medical profession has been consulted. known as the Medical Legislative I am told that the Minister has been Committee of the Medical Advisory led to believe that the Malayan Medical Council. Mr Speaker, Sir, there is ins­ Association has representatives on the trument for consultation between the Malayan Medical Council. Now, these Government and the medical profession are two different bodies, Mr Speaker. in the medical Legislative Committee Sir. One has a judicial powers almost of the Medical Advisory Council. Why that is the Malayan Medical Council, has the Minister not thought it fit to the other is the Malayan Medical consult the Medical Advisory Council, Association formed merely to protect or the Medical Legislative Committee the interests of the profession, and I of the Medical Advisory Council? It can say and tell the Minister today- is incomprehensible to me, as a member 1 know he has been misled-that the of the medical profession, that while Malayan Medical Association is not the Minister goes trumpeting up and represented on the Malayan Medical down the country that he wants the Council. co-operation of the profession, yet he As for consultation with the Malayan has done nothing to consult the pro­ Medical Council Mr Speaker, Sir, as a fession on an important matter like member of the Malayan Medical Coun­ the amendment to the Medical Regis­ cil I can say that this legislation that tration Ordinance now before the is before this House was mentioned House. Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, I say en passant in the Malayan Medical without fear of contradiction that the Council. If there is to be true consul­ medical profession as represented by tation, then an item should be placed the Malayan Medical Association has on the agenda and discussed. It is true not be consulted and here I will make it has been discussed en passant or in very clear to the Minister that the only passing down there, and I for one who representative body of the Medical pro­ was present at that meeting did not fession, is the Malayan Medical Asso­ know that discussing it en passant ciation and nobody else. Now, why has would mean giving approval to the the Minister not thought it fit to consult Government to enact such a piece of the Malayan Medical Association. I legislation. can say without fear of contradiction that the Malayan Medical Association I do hope that, I reiterate again, Mr has not been consulted, and on an Speaker, Sir, that if the Minister wants important matter like this, it is the co-operation of the medical profes­ regrettable that the Minister has not sion, the Government must not antago­ done so. Again I reiterate it, Mr nise the profession and it should as far Speaker, Sir, that it is not mandatory as possible consult the medical pro­ on the part of the Government to con­ fession as represented by the Malayan sult the Malayan Medical Association, Medical Association. nor if it did consult the Malayan Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, having stated Medical Association should it accept all these things, I now wish to come the advice of the Malayan Medical to the amendment itself, and like my Association; the prerogative of what medical colleague, the Member for the Government should do lies entirely Kota Star Selatan, I wish to associate in the hands of the Minister, but I myself with him that this piece of would call, I reiterate it again that the legislation is long overdue. I have Minister in the interest of harmony as nothing against the Amendment that between the Ministry of Health and is now before this House. I fully the medical profession should in all support it and I think the medical cases, when it wants to bring legislation profession fully supports it. The only pertaining to the medical profession, regret is that it has taken the Govern­ consult the representatives of the pro- ment such a long time to bring this 7223 25 MARCH 1966 7224 before this House. I remember, per­ Sir, first of all, I would like to say haps, about eight years ago, when I that the Bill per se as it stands is very was a member of the Singapore necessary, and the Bill per se as it Medical Council, both the Singapore stands is timely, and from that point and Malayan Medical Council did of view I would like to commend the discuss this piece of legislation, but Honourable Minister for having intro­ the Government in its wisdom has duced this Bill at this time. He has at taken such a long time to come to a long last managed, since his inheri­ decision. tance of the portfolio of the Ministry of Health, to put into action things Finally Mr Speaker, Sir, I close that were promised to the medical with a plea to the Minister "Tolong­ profession for well over ten years­ lah berhubong dengan Persatuan Peru­ actually from 1952 till today, it is batan Malaya, kalau-tuan Menteri well over fourteen years. hendak membawa perkara2 atau Rang Undang2 tentang Doktor2 di-Tarrah Sir, the intention of this particular Malaysia. Bill is clearly laid out, and I think every Member in this House will Mr Speaker: The sitting suspended support the particular intention of this till 4 p.m. today. Bill. The considerations, which led to the preparation of the Bill, however, Sitting suspended at 12 noon. were such that I feel it necessary for me to add a few statements to that Sitting resumed at 4.35 p.m. made by the Honourable Member for Batu, because certainly the recom­ (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) mendations that were made by the Medical Council, which eventually THE MEDICAL REGISTRATION were transmitted to the august office (AMENDMENT) BILL of the Ministry and to the august Second Reading personage of the Minister of Health. Debate resumed. which have led to the formulation of this Bill, were not discussed en passant, but in actual fact had been discussed Mr (Deputy) Speaker: Meshuarat di­ sambong sa-mula. for very, many years. The difficulties arising out of the Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, Sir, situation are due to the fact that the at the time when the House recessed, Government, ever since it inherited we heard two speeches from Members the medical administration from the in this House, who belong to the former colonial masters, has not felt medical profession, and I hope, by it very necessary to define what the participating in this particular Bill, I Alliance medical policy is. So, as it do not give the impression that the has already been stated both by the medical members in the House are Members of the Alliance bench as now attempting to have a jam session well as the Member from the Opposi­ over this Bill. Sir, we can well under­ tion bench, this lack of policy has stand much of the sentiments that were naturally created many administrative expressed by these two earlier speakers, and interpretative difficulties with because for so many years the Govern­ regard to the major Bill on the major ment has studiously and has cleverly Act itself, namely, the Medical Re­ avoided the responsibility of putting gistration Ordinance of 1952. forward any type of medical legisla­ tion, which we could debate at all. So, Sir, I wish first to deal with the the long suppressed frustration that reasons of this particular Bill, not has been felt has naturally caused because I wish to assume the position much of the views that were brought where I absolutely support the Hon­ up earlier today by the Honourable ourable the Minister, but in order to Member for Kota Star Selatan and the make it quite clear to the Members of Honourable Member for Batu. the House what the purposes and 7225 25 MARCH 1966 7226 intentions of this Bill are, and why which we have either reciprocal although we support it we feel its recognition, or which we ourselves limitation-and there are limitations­ recognise. So, I feel, Sir, it is an and why we feel that this Bill is only opportune occasion to state that the a temporary solution to a very big function of the Medical Council is problem-even on this question of limited by the powers laid down in registration of citizens who have the Ordinance with regard to the qualified in institutions which are not establishment of the Medical Council, at the present moment recognised by and as such the one important point us. the members of the public should The other factor, Sir, is the question understand, and the Honourable of the out-dated and outmoded Members of the House should under­ Medical Registration Ordinance, 1952. stand, is that we have no power at the The Honourable Member for Kota Star present moment to !nstitute mutual Selatan has given us examples of how recognition of foreign degrees-and the Medical Registration Ordinance, this applies in particular to the 1952, at the present moment as it medical profession. However, there can stands can lead to much abuse and be an exchange of acceptance of the the Honourable Member for Batu standards and the qualification that has indicated how the Medical Regis­ are accorded by medical institutions tration Ordinance is outmoded. There­ from other countries, and I have raised fore, I would like Sir, as the debate the question of the medical degrees progresses, to indicate that I consider from the United States with a special that not only should we set up a reason, because in the United ·States committee to review the Medical Re­ recognition of their degrees that are gistration Ordinance, but in actual fact conferred to doctors, who qualify from we should urge the Alliance Govern­ different institutions, do not necessarily ment to redeem its promises made ever mean that a person get registered since it came into power in 1955 to throughout the whole of the States establish an advisory committee and itself. So, the doctors will have first to a committee to look into the change get through their essential primary of medical policy for an independent education, professional education, and nation. then they have to sit for a State qualifying examination and then they Sir, for quite some ti_me in this also have to sit for a national qualify­ country, there had been a great amount ing examination, before they can be of controversy over the question of registered, and a doctor qualified in recognition of foreign degrees and a one State need not necessarily find number of people in this country have himself able to practise in another either, under misapprehension, mis­ State. Now, if this happens in the State interpreted this question of recogni­ of America itself, I do not think that tion of foreign degrees, and they have the controversy, which has been raised on many occasions also specifically here, should lead to a situation where brought up this question of our non­ we should blame the Government for recognition particularly of American not having taken action to allow for degrees in relation to the medical mutual recognition of qualifications profession. from other countries. Hence, this The immediate stimulus for this con­ provision in Clause 3-section 10 and troversy was due to the fact that the amendment to sub-clause (d) (i) several of our students, or citizens, and (ii}-is an attempt really to set who have gone over to the United up some kind of mechanics, whereby States and similarly to other countries we can allow doctors from other whose institutions are not recognised countries, or graduates in the medical by us and have qualified; .and having profession from other countries, to qualified, they find that they are come into Malaysia and practise on unable to return to Malaysia and the basis of free equal registration receive registration as other citizens, as other members of the medical who have been to institutions with profession. 7227 25 MARCH 1966 7228

It is true that it would have been of the shortage of facilities for medical much more salutary, and it would have training in our country, have to go been a greater indication of Govern­ abroad for study, and frequently such ments desire always to consult the students have been selected and are _medical profession. if the Honourable chosen to go to other countries on Minister or his Ministry had directly scholarships for medical studies; and and openly conducted consultations if they do go to those countries whose panels with the Malaysian Medical institutions are not recognised by us Association. Sir, not only would that after they have qualified, our own have been professionally and academi­ citizens find it difficult to be registered cally wise, it would also have been a on the same basis as other Federal _definite indication that the Government citizens. is keenly aware in sponsoring the dignity and the cultural development The other factor Sir, has been due to of an important organisation such as the fact that since the Emergency, not the Malaysian Medical Association. the present Emergency, but the Emer­ However, Sir, the Medical Council is gency of the colonial period, the the body in our country, which deter­ Government felt a great need to find mines the minimum academic qualifi­ assistance from other countries to _cations and the ethical principles assist us in solving the problem of the whereby medical practitioners shall shortage of trained medical personnel carry out their profession in this in this country and hence it was a country. And as such, we are very clause in section 9, Clause 9 (c) of the happy that the recommendations that Medical Ordinance, which limited that were made by the Medical Council such members of the medical profes­ -have in actual fact been accepted in sion, such doctors, who come from toto by the Honourable Minister and foreign institutions, who are not by .the Government-hence, its pres­ Malaysians, to serve in our country entation with the Bill. However, I do should be limited in their terms of hope tha.t in his reply the Honourable service and that their registration should Minister will affirm that the Medical be renewed every year. Sir, these were Council did indicate that if its powers two factors that have caused a great were different, and if it had been given discontent amongst the members of the a greater latitude to solve this parti­ medical profession as a whole. · _cular problem, our recommendations This Bill solves the first part of the would have been wider. So, this is a problem, namely, our own citizens who sort of very limited solution to a very have been abroad to study on return, _difficult problem; and the limitations with the passage of this Bill, now will -are not due_ to the incapacity of the find it possible to be registered and, Medical Council to put forward a therefore, find themselves in a position better solution but is largely due to where they are much more equitably the fact that the guardians of the placed in relation to their other fellow :patients · namely the Government­ citizens. However, the other issue, are reluctant for the Medical profes­ namely, the question of doctors who sion to advance a proper treatment come into this country and who are for the case. So, I do hope that the registered under Clause 9 (c), working Minister will assure this House, that under a temporary basis, usually under he will give us an assurance, that the Government, whose registration has _this Bill will only be a precursor to a to be renewed every year, has created much more extensive and much more another major controversy and that, radical r~form. I feel, is the area where the medical profession feels most strongly about, Sir, there are two objections to because the only reasons that Govern­ .Section 9 of the Medical Registration ment has administratively advanced for Qrciinance, and. this Bill really solves the prolongation of the life of section .qnly one of the objections. The two 9 (c) of the Medical Registration ]llajor objections have been due to the Ordinance has been; (i) shortage of fact that our own citizens wbo, because doctors; (ii) the Emergency conditions 7229 25 MARCH 1966 7230 require immediate solution to this best way we can call it is the ''Alliance's shortage. system of medicine"; and the Alliance system of medicine, unfortunately, is Sir, I remember that the first incum­ only a vestige of the colonial adminis­ bent on the Ministry of Health was tration system. Sir, whether it is just the late Tun , and that due to this lack, or whether it is due to name must take a lot of the members the fact that successions of Ministers in the Alliance Government back many to this portfolio of Health have always years, and the present Honourable found it pleasant to go for trips Minister who is holding this portfolio abroad, in order to visit countries who to his happier and easier and younger wish to export doctors to us-they days; and Tun Leong Yew Koh has had been to India, · and the recent departed from this earth, and yet trip took them to Korea-and whether nothing has been done positively to it is so or not, it has definitely con­ solve this question of the shortage of tributed to the difficulties which has doctors. I remember, Sir, at that time led to the promulgation of this Bill. when the Alliance Government was full Whether because the Alliance Ministers of the fervour of independence, and the going abroad are so well entertained Alliance Government felt that it could that their choice of doctors to serve us really establish something model and is only a measure of the pleasure, they something new, as a challenge against derived from the trip abroad or other­ the British colonial administration, it wise, the invidious situation is that was suggested that we could bridge this every single doctor that has been gap in our medical need by having brought into this country under section crash programmes in training, so that 9 (c) has been a doctor who does not large numbers of doctors could be qualify for straight and direct registra­ produced to fill up the anticipated need tion under section 9 (a) of our Medical for members in the medical profession Registration Ordinance. It may be that to serve in our country. That was well if we go to Britain, whose medica! over ten years ago. Now, if ten years institutions are all recognised by ours, ago the Alliance Government had if we went to India, most of whose adopted such a crash programme, and a medical institutions are recognised by positive programme of solving this ours, or if you went to any of the other question of the shortage of doctors, Commonwealth countries, whose medi­ today we would have had more than cal institutions are recognised by us, three academic generations of qualified we will be immediately turned down, medical students. As it is, because the because we will be told first that they Alliance Government could never take themselves have a shortage of doctors, this decision of having a positive not in terms of numbers, but shortage measure of solving this question of the in terms of what they consider neces­ gap in our medical need, to this day our sary to maintain adequate standard of solutions are temporary and our solu­ health, and they will not allow their tions have got to be found elsewhere. doctors to go out. At the sanie time, I do not know what the real reason for doctors with these qualifications would the Alliance's lack of positive action is. not wish to come and serve here, be­ It may be because they had never had cause the conditions of our service are the real dynamism really to establish a not conducive, are not attractive truly Malayan national medical system enough to them. Therefore, we have to and we are still working under a go to other countries where entertain­ perpetuation of a medical policy which ments for the Ministers might be very I have previously called and have good, but the qualifications of the repeatedly called "nothing better than a doctors do not meet our requirements. vestige of the colonial medical adminis­ tration." We have never in all these Sir, the terrible thing about section years actually established our own 9 (c) is that we have a hotchpoch; and medical system, whether it be socialised then from the academic point of view, medicine, nationalised medicine, or if we turn round and say to the Minis­ otherwise. At the present moment, the try, "Well you are just bringing any

------.------7231 25 MARCH 1966 7232 kind of doctors under 9 (c)", that is want to say to the Government, "Do not correct, because they can say, "We not rest on our laurels". bring men who come in under the Peace Corps and who come in under special Sir, it is because of this potential training programmes and they are abuse of 9 (c), that the members of the internationally recognised figllf'es; they medical profession find themselves come here to work for one year in greatly at variance with the Ministry medical research programmes". We over this question of the · Medical agree that we bring in men of such Registration Ordinance, and I sincerly high professional qualifications, but the hope that the Minister will accept the abuse is that under section 9 (c), we advice which has been put forward by really do bring in a great number of the Honourable Member for Kota Star medical personnel from other countries Selatan and the Honourable Member who do not meet our own requirements, for Batu, and immediately institute a and far more important, Sir, we do committee with wide powers of review bring in members from outside this in an advisory capacity to look into the country whose qualifications are question of desirability of amending definitely no better than the qualifica­ the Medical Registration Ordinance. tions of our own citizens and products Sir, how important that is was brought from our own university, and there is out by the fact that some of the no protective clause, and the Govern­ allegations that were brought up by the ment has shown no interest to protect Honourable Member for Kota Star the position of the local medical Selatan although quite awesome, I feel practitioners from those who have come are quite legitimate. However, it did from abroad under 9 (c). A simple indicate that the Medical Registration example, Sir, is a charitable institution, Ordinance is so old, so antiquated, that and I am not going into the legal younger members of the profession are definition of "charitable institution"; a not entirely quite aware of its implica­ charitable institution which is interested tions. The strange thing is that, under in the question of medical services the laws of our country, there is nothing and the provision of health services to prevent anybody calling himself a can, under Article 9 (c), bring in a doctor, and nothing to prevent anybody doctor from abroad under 9 (c) to serve setting himself up in a healing practice. in this country; and it is only lately Sir, that is the actual situation. The that the Ministry; by administrative Honourable Minister can call himself action through the recommendation of a doctor and set up a practice, but the Medical Council, had insisted that under the Registration Ordinance he is such institutions before they bring in not entitled to do certain things, and doctors from abroad under 9 (c), should the case that was brought up as an first advertise their posts with an illustration by the Honourable Member attempt to fill these posts by our own for Kota Star Selatan is very interest­ citizens that we have a beginning of ing, because if the death was indeed some kind of protection of the interests caused by a man administering a dmg of the local doctors. through a hypodermic syringe, then that Mr (Deputy) Speaker: Time is very man is liable to criminal action and limited. How long you are going to criminal prosecution under this parti­ take? You have taken more than half cular Ordinance. an hour. There are so many BiJls to be finished today. Sir, it is because of this vagueness of the Medical Registration Ordinance, Dr Lim Chong Eu: I will try to that so many things can go wrong and finish as soon as I can. I thought it is no action is taken. It is all very well best for me to explain this, because I for a layman to administer pills and want to congratulate the Government recommend pills to prevent premature for this BilJ, and I want the people to ageing or to make older men feel understand why I want to congratulate young, but there are definite stipula­ the Government. At the same time, I tions as to what can be done by the 7233 25 MARCH 1966 7234 qualified, professional medical practi­ Bill ini dengan masa yang sangat tioner as opposed to those, who esta­ pendek oleh sebab masa berhubong blish themselves into the art of heal­ dengan hal ini telah di-borong oleh ing. From that point of view, I have a Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Tan­ slightly more liberal attitude than the jong tadi. Honourable Member for Kota Star 2 Selatan because, for example, we have Saya menyokong Rang Undang a shortage of doctors-at the present Pendaftaran Perubatan ini. Ini ia-lah moment, we certainly have a shortage satu ikhtiar, saya fikir, boleh mengatasi of doctors in the specialities, and one kekurangan doktor dalam negeri kita of the specialities that we suffer from ini. Saya chuma hendak membangkit­ a great shortage is in the psychiatric kan satu perkara dalam Bill ini dan field; and in spite of the affluent meminta perhatian Yang Berhormat society which the Alliance Government Menteri Kesihatan ia-itu berhubong is providing us, a lot of people are dengan mayat yang mati di-sebabkan meeting with tensions of our present oleh suatu kemalangan yang tidak ada society, and more and more there is an pergantongan dengan Police Case dan tidak pula di-shak oleh warith2-nya increase in mental illness and increase 2 in anxiety state and the local bomohs bahawa mayat yang mati dengan for all there worth have a place and, sebab sa-suatu yang di-fikirkan boleh therefore, I do feel that we should try menaroh shak kapada warith2-nya. and understand what the objectives of Perkara ini . . . . the Medical Registration Ordinance Enche' Bahaman bin Samsodin: should be. I urge the Honourable Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Yang Berhormat Minister in his reply-there is no berchakap dalam perkara ini tidak further procrastination as after all 1952 kena-mengena dengan Undang2 ini­ to 1966 is a long time-to tell us that tidak kena pada tempat-nya dia ber­ the Government has a definite inten­ chakap. tion to establish a committee of review to look into the question of the medical Enche' Ahmad bin Anhad: Tuan policy in this country, not only as it Yang di-Pertua, saya chuma hendak prevails in Malaya, but also to integrate berchakap dalam hal doktor ini the differences in the different terri­ sahaja-kuat kuasa doktor. tories in Malaysia today, and the J adi saya meminta mayat yang sa­ Government will also establish a com­ umpama itu, jikalau boleh, jangan di­ mittee to look into the question of belah dan berikan kemudahan di­ reviewing the Medical Registration bebaskan daripada di-belah mayat ini Ordinance, so that a new Ordinance dan boleh warith2-nya itu membawa can be promulgated as soon as possi­ mayat itu dengan segera balek ka­ ble. However, Sir, Jet me reiterate that tempat-nya. Saya bukan membantah even with the best Ordinance, it cannot pehak doktor hendak membelah function unless there is a definite mayat2 yang mati di-sebabkan ke­ policy, and it is in view of the fact that malangan tetapi jikalau mayat yang there is no policy, we are suffering all tidak ada kaitan dengan Police Case our difficulties. Sir, under these circum­ dan warith2 tidak ada shak, saya fikir stances, this Bill, meritorious as it is lebeh baik di-layan supaya dapat di­ with regard to the provisions of the bawa balek di-kebumikan dengan sa­ Bill, suffers from the fact that it is like berapa segera-nya yang boleh. Itu-lah attaching a good skin graft on an sahaja, terima kaseh. incompatible host-some time or other it must die. Sir, let us hope that the Enche' Bahaman bin Samsodin: Honourable Minister for Health will Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the assure us that this is only the beginning Honourable Member for Kota Star of things to come. Selatan, the Honourable Member for Batu, and the Honourable Member for Enche' Ahmad bin Anhad. (Muar Tanjong for their support of this Utara): Yang Berhormat Tuan Yang legislation and of the useful sugges­ di-Pertua, saya bangun menyokong tions made with regard to the necessity 7235 25 MARCH 1966 7236 of re-writing the whole Medical wish to assure the Honourable Mem­ Registration Ordinance, scrutiny of ber for Batu that in future the doctors after three years service with Malayan Medical Association will be Government, controlling, quack doctors, consulted, if it is thought necessary to controlling the use of certain medical do so for the sake of good relationship terms, and the setting up of a Com­ and co-operation. mittee to revise the Ordinance. All these suggestions, Sir, will be borne in The issue here, Sir, is that this legis­ mind when consideration is given to lation has the full support of the the revision of the Ordinance. Members who have spoken just now, and I am glad and thank them for Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, their kind support. I can assure the Sir, on a point of clarification, may we Honourable Member for Tanjong-he also have an assurance from the is not here now-that my trip abroad has given me knowledge of the medical Honourable Minister that when this facilities in the countries and this has legislation is re-written, the medical given me ideas how to tackle problems profession as represented by the in this country (Laughter), one of Malayan Medical Association will be which, Sir, is this legislation today consulted all the way through. (Laughter). Enche' Rahaman bin Samsudin: Sir, in reply to the Member of I have not finished my reply, Sir, Parliament for Muar Utara, that has (Laughter)-he is trying to jump the nothing to do with this Ordinance, but gun. I agree, Sir, that this legislation is as that Member wants to speak, I overdue and that it is outmoded, but would like to take the opportunity to this is mainly due to the frequent reply to him that a circular is being changes in the senior staff and the issued by my Ministry to all Members Ministers themselves in the Health of Parliament as well as to the Ministry, and no one could think Members of the State Assemblies with clearly of the several problems prevail­ regard to the question of post-mortem ing in this Ministry. of Muslim bodies-I think he knows it, but if he still wants to say his bit, With regard to the question of the I cannot help it (Laughter). Malayan Medical Association, or the Medical Advisory Council, not being Question put, and agreed to. consulted regarding this amendment, I Bill accordingly read a second time would like to explain that as the Honourable Member for Batu himself and committed to a Committee of the admitted, there was some form of whole House. consultation made of the Malayan House immediately resolved itself Medical Council, but I wish to inform into a Committee on the Bill. the House that the Ministry of Health is under no obligation to consult any Bill considered in Committee. of these bodies. The Malayan Medical Council which we first consulted is a (Mr (Deputy Speaker) in the Chair) statutory body with elected representa­ Clauses 1 to 3 inclusive ordered to tives of all medical practitioners in stand part of the Bill. the country sitting on it. It is not strictly true that there are a prepon­ Bill reported without amendment : derance of Government doctors in the read the third time and passed. Malayan Medical Council. There are 19 members, and out of these, 4 are mE COMPANIES (AMENDMENT) Government ex-officio members, 3 are BILL representatives from the University, and the remaining are elected by the Second Reading practitioners themselves and among The Acting Minister of Commerce them, perhaps, a few Government and Industry (Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob): doctors also were elected. However, I Mr Speaker, Sir, l move that a Bill 7237 25 MARCH 1966 7238 intituled "an Act to amend the Com­ ment of the House to move an amend­ panies Act, 1965" be now read a ment to the scale of fees now second time. prescribed under the new Companies Honourable Members will recall Act for the registration of companies that the new Companies Act, 1965, in the light of the representations of was passed by the Dewan Ra'ayat in difficulties by the public. I beg to its session of the 9th August, 1965. move, Sir. The Act was subsequently passed by Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, I the Senate on the 16th August, 1965, beg to second the motion. and assented to by His Majesty The Yang di-Pertuan Agong on the 5th Question put, and agreed to. November, 1965. When I introduced Bill accordingly read a second time the new Companies Bill in Parliament, and committed to a Committee of the I assured the House that if there were whole House. any practical difficulties encountered in the Companies Law, I would come House immediately resolved itself to the House again to move any into a Committee on the Bill. amendment considered necessary and justified. Although the Companies Act, Bill considered in Committee. 1965. is yet to come into force, repre­ (Mr (Deputy Speaker) in the Chair) sentations have been made by members of the public concerning the high rate Clauses I and 2 ordered to stand of fees charged for registration of new part of the Bill. companies under the new Act. As an Bill reported without amendment; example, it was pointed out that a new read the third time and passed. company with an authorised capital of $100,000,000 would have to pay a fee THE FEDERATION OF MALAYA of $201,200 compared with $1,500 RUBBER EXCHANGE (INCOR­ under the existing Ordinance, $5,350 PORATION) (AMENDMENT) BILL in England and $26,270 in Australia. In the light of the representations, the Second Reading Government has reviewed the registra­ Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob: Mr Speaker, tion fees chargeable and· under the new Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled Act, whilst it could not consider "an Act to amend the Federation of reverting to the very low rates, charged Malaya Rubber Exchange (Incorpora­ under the existing Companies Ordin­ tion) Act, 1962" be now read a second ance prescribed 20 years ago in 1946, time. Mr Speaker, Sir, Honourable the Government has agreed to revise Members will recall that the Federa­ substantially the rates of registration tion of Malaya ~ubber Exchange fees of Companies with authorised (Incorporation) Act was passed by this capital exceeding $1,000,000. As pro­ House in 1962, following which the posed in the Bill, subject to a maxi­ Federation of Malaya Rubber Ex­ mum of $35,000, the new rates are change was established in Kuala comparable to those obtainable in Lumpur. The establishment of a Australia which have been cited as Rubber Exchange in the country was comparison. You may ask, Sir, why motivated by a . desire to have an rates for companies with an authorised organised rubber market which would capital of $1 million and less has not regulate the trading of rubber in this been reduced. Having regard to the country through a set. of rules of present circumstances, the rates as conduct to ensure stability and discip­ prescribed under the new Companies line, and which would provide all the Act in respect of those companies are facilities of trading and the safe­ considered reasonable. They represent gu.ards necessary to traders and thereby very modest increases over the existing ensure international confidence. But rates which have been prescribed, as I since its inception in 1962. the Federa­ have said earlier, in circumstances tion of Malaya Rubber Exchange, prevailing twenty years ago. As . I despite the persevering and deligent promised, I now seek for the agree- efforts of its Board of Directors and 7239 25 MARCH 1966 7240 Government financial support, has present number of eleven members to only met with a lfmited success. This a maximum of twenty-five. so that the is because the amount of business Board could have on it a wider transacted through the Exchange has representation of persons with know­ not been up to expectation, due mainly ledge on international rubber trade. to the development towards direct trading between producers and con­ It is also proposed to amend the sumers without going through an rules and by-laws of the Exchange so organised market. This development, as to enable inter-linking of its con­ however, is a healthy one and should tracts with those of overseas markets not be discouraged, especially in this and to admit the participation of era, when we are progressively overseas members in its activities. developing technically to specify the While it is neither the Government's rubber and when we have to meet the intention to interfere with the opera­ challenge of the aggressive sales tions of the Federation of · Malaya techniques of synthetic rubber which Rubber Exchange, nor to hamper are conducted direct between the trade, Government considers it neces­ producers and consumers. As a result sary that, as the Exchange is incor­ of this development, the volume of porated by an act of Parliament and business passing through the Exchange will derive additional revenue from the has not yielded the revenue required to fees on registration of rubber exports make it financially self-supporting, so enforced by Government, the legisla­ that at the end of 1965 it was necessary tive provisions of which are set out in for the Government to grant it a loan a separate bill which I will move later, of $250,000 to enable the Exchange It is appropriate ·that the Chairman to meet its annual administrative and the Deputy Chairman should be expenditure. At the end of 1965 the appointed by the Government which Government set up a committee of should also have power to give to the officials and representatives of the Exchange directions not inconsistent rubber trade and industry to review with the provisions of the existing Act. the operation of the Exchange. This The Federation of Malaya Rubber committee recommended that in spite Exchange began its operation prior to of the trend towards direct selling of the formation of Malaysia. Now, that rubber, the Exchange should continue we are a new nation, it is only right to exist. As Malaysia is the biggest that we restyle the Federation of natural rubber producer in the world, Malaya Exchange as the Malaysian it is in the national interest, as well Rubber Exchange, although at this as in the interest of the rubber trade stage its operations will be confined and industry, that there should be an only to the States of Malaya. Sir, the organised rubber market in this Federation of Malaya Rubber Ex­ country. Such a market would ensure change has, since its inception, per­ the availability of reliable information formed an essential function in the on prices, provide safeguards to pro­ development of the country's rubber ducers, traders and consumers, in the trade. With the proposed re-organi­ form of contracts, brokers, guarantee sation, we are confident that the arrangements, sampling, and arbitra­ Exchange will become an effective tion procedures, which are essential in international market. creating confidence in international Sir, I beg to move. trade, and enable operation of various trading facilities such as auction, hedg­ Endte' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, I ing arbitration and other transactions. beg to second the motion. However, the committee recommended that measures should be taken to Enche' Tan Toh Bong (Bukit Bin­ improve the organisation and operation tang): Mr Speaker, Sir, I ri~ to give of the Exchange in order to make it my full support to this Bill. As our more effective and to achieve this, it economy is still very much dependent is necessary that the Board of Directors on rubber, any amendment that aims of the Exchange be enlarged from the at making the Malaysian Rubber 7241 25 MARCH 1966 7242 Exchange more effective and more device, there is no means of guaran­ functional deserves the full support of teeing that their sales proceeds are this House. However, Sir, I am being sent back here for re-investment alarmed to know that certain sections in our country. To a developing of the rubber industry are not giving economy like ours in great need of full support to the Exchange despite more foreign exchanges and of more the fact that the Rubber Exchange investments, this device certainly ensures orderly and organised market­ works against national interest. ing which are beneficial to the industry as a whole. I am alarmed to know that Sir, lest it be misunderstood, I am a substantial majority of contracts and not advocating the banning of direct sales have bypassed our local central­ sales between producers and con­ ised market. Sir, among others, this has sumers but rather that this type of the effect of denying our rubber industry sales, which I have mentioned just and our Government the knowledge of now, intentionally bypassing our local export particulars and the movements market should be controlled and of foreign exchanges. How are we to wiped out. From our national point know. Sir. that the net proceeds of sale of view, Sir, national interest demands of rubber overseas, handled by some that the activities of vital channels of middlemen of some other countries in rubber distribution should be either London or elsewhere, are being re­ based on our soil, or at least being invested in Malaysia for the betterment carried out with our knowledge. This of our people and our nation? Rubber is only logical, Sir, since we are the is our lifeblood. While London and largest producers in the world. other international traders regard rubber trading as a matter of dollars In 1964, of the total planted acreage and cents-to us, Malaysians, this is in the States of Malaya, rubber one of the means of economic survival, accounts for 64 per cent or 4,103,000 and it is a matter of national life and acres. Any ups-and-downs of the death. industry, Sir, will intrude upon the activities of our economy and influence Sir, in 1965, the revenue derived the livelihood of our people. In this from rubber alone is $78,392,000. This respect, Sir, I would like to congratu­ is the second largest revenue item late our Government for having the next of tin. In addition, the approxi­ wisdom to re-examine the operations mate value of rubber exports in 1%5 of rubber marketing. As the Honour­ amounts to $1,454,000,000 which is able the Acting Minister has so clearly Malaysia's largest export item; yet, explained, the proposed re-organisation unless such exports are dealt through will ensure a better international rubber our rubber exchange, or their move­ market whereby trading becomes more ments are registered with it, what organised and orderly to bring about guarantee have we got that all these confidence in the industry. It is to be proceeds are being re-invested here hoped that the re-organised Malaysian and not in London or elsewhere? They Rubber Exchange, together with the could very well use a substantial part operations of the Rubber Export of our foreign exchange to develop Registration Bill, will serve as incen­ their economy at our expense without tives for London and other foreign anyone being the wiser. dealers to take a positive interest in our local market activities. In this connection, Sir, I am alarmed to understand that a large number of In conclusion, Sir, I am sure that foreign-owned rubber estates in we all would like to see that vigorous Malaysia purposely consign their attempts would be made to promote rubber to their United Kingdom head­ the name and the activities of the quarters or agencies for sale in the Malaysian Rubber Exchange, so that London market. By this device, they this organisation could, perhaps, one bypass our Malaysian Rubber Ex­ day serve as a model for all commodity change and conceal the remittances of markets in this part of the world. our foreign exchanges. Under this Thank you, Sir. (Applause). 7243 25 MARCH 1966 7244 Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob: Mr Speaker, the Exchange had not been up to Sir, I would like to thank the Member expectations as a result of the develop­ for Bukit Bintang for supporting this ment towards direct trading between Bill. For the information of the producers and consumers without Honourable Member, the various going through an organised market. I points raised by him are very construc­ also stated that this development was tive points and have been considered a healthy one, which should not be by the Government. In fact, I think, discouraged in the face of aggressive the Honourable Member has jumped sales technique of synthetic rubber the gun, because in introducing my which are conducted direct between the next Bill to the House, I shall be producers and consumers. dealing with the various points raised by the Honourable Member. But, Mr Speaker, Sir, apart form this nevertheless, I must congratulate the direct sale, there is also a good per­ Honourable Member for Bukit Bin­ centage of our rubber which is con­ tang for his very intimate knowledge signed from this country to overseas of the trade, and I am quite sure the market and sold at prices below those substantive Minister should open his ruling in the Malaysian market. Thus eyes when he starts thinking of who this type of sale which is different from should be appointed to the Board of that of direct sale between the Directors. (Laughter). I think that is producers and consumers I men­ about all I would like to reply to the tioned earlier and also mentioned Honourable Member. by the Honourable Member for Bukit Question put, and agreed to. Bintang, not only bypasses the local market but deprives this country of Bill accordingly read a second time foreign exchange. The committee of and committed to a Committee of the officials and representatives of the whole House. rubber trade and industry which I mentioned in my previous speech, Sir, House immediately resolved itself had examined this type of sale and had into a Committee on the Bill. recommended that such practice be Bill considered in Committee. discouraged. This recommendation has been accepted by Government, and it Mr (Deputy) Speaker in the Chair) has been decided that a legislation be introduced to require all rubber Clauses 1 to 8 inclusive ordered to shipped, or exported, overseas to be stand part of the Bill. registered with the Federation of Bill reported without amendment: Malaysia Rubber Exchange, and read the third time and passed. rubber shall only be exported on the issue of a certificate by the Exchange. THE RUBBER EXPORT REGIS­ Through this method, it will be possible TRATION BILL to obtain particulars of rubber export particularly in respect of the price. Second Reading This, Mr Speaker, Sir, is the main Encbe' Khaw Kai-Bob: Mr Speaker, intention behind the Bill now before Sir, I beg to move that the Rubber this House. Export Registration Bill be now read a second time. Under the Bill, fees will have to be Mr Speaker, Sir, in the course of my paid for the registration at such rates speech in moving the second reading as the Minister of Commerce and of the Federation of Malaysia Rubber Industry may fix from time to time Exchange (Incorporation) (Amendment) and such fees will be credited to the Bill, l stated that the Federation of revenue of the Exchange. It is hoped Malaya . Rubber Exchange, which was that these fees, which will be fixed at established early in 1962, has met with a very low rate, will provide the limited success, partly because of the Exchange with adequate revenue for amount of business transacted through it to meet its expenditure, so that it will 7245 25 MARCH 1966 7246 not continue to depend on the Govern­ wonder whether this is necessary for ment financially. In order to avoid any the purpose for which the Bill is difficulty and unnecessary burden on designed. the part of the trade, it has been decided that applications for certifi­ The other point which I wish to cates for rubber exports will be issued make, Sir, is that under Clause 6 of in denominations from one ton (every the Bill provision is made for fees for part of a ton to be regarded as one registration. As ·we know, Sir, any ton) to 50 tons, and that application kind of imposition on a product for such certificates and their uses can generally works back to the producer be made in advance. Thus the trader, and Clause 6 gives power for the who has obtained a certificate in Corporation, with the approval of the advance, can export his rubber without Minister, to prescribe fees. I hope that, any further delay and without further in exercise of this power, the Minister difficulty. will take due regard to the needs for imposition which are reasonable, The Bill also provides for the because the rubber industry is Minister of Commerce and Industry facing very keen competition from to make regulations for the proper synthetic rubber, and also natural carrying out of these provisions, and rubber from other producing countries; this will enable the Government to and if we put too much burden on the introduce from time to time measures industry by additional imposition how­ which will be to the interest of the ever small, it works back eventually rubber trade. on the producer and would in the long Mr Speaker, Sir, these are the main run not benefit the industry. If some features of the Bill which is aimed in sort of control over · the industry is straightening the rubber market in obviously necessary, I think it should this country and making it viable and be exercised with due care as the effective. With the measures, which it rubber industry is facing very strong is proposed to take under the Bill for competition not only from synthetic the reorganisation of the Exchange, we rubber but also from rubber producers can look forwara to increased activities in other countries. in the local rubber market which will benefit the national economy. All Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, sectors of the rubber trade and industry Sir, my comments arise from the fact have been consulted on this Bill and that earlier on the Honourable they have supported it unanimously. Minister, when he was moving the Sir, I beg to move. earlier Bill on the Federation of Malaya Rubber Exchange (Incorpora­ Enche' V. Manickavasagam: I beg tion) Act, indicated that one of the to second the motion. necessities was due to the fact that with Malaysia it was necessary to revise Enche' Ong Kee Hui (Sarawak): this concept of the Exchange to include Mr Speaker, Sir, I have only two very the whole of Malaysia, and that in brief comments to make on the Bill; actual fact that particular Bill has as the Bill as stated in paragraph 1 some reference to this present Bill only applies to the States of Malaya which we are now discussing. Sir, and do not concern the Borneo States. under those circumstances I wonder whether the Honourable Minister can The first comment, Sir, is that under elucidate whether the Government has the definition of rubber, it appears that subsequent intention to try and in­ this Bill will be applicable to a wide corporate similar type of legislation, range of products other than the rubber so that it is applicable to the territories as is generally known, namely, para of Sabah and Sarawak. Sir, this is a rubber, because under paragraph 2, the subject which we have constantly definition "rubber" includes not only repeated and I feel, Sir, that wherever para rubber but the whole range of possible, in so long as it does not other rubber products, and I just contravene the existing Constitution. 7247 25 MARCH 1966 7248 legislation should be on the basis of laws applicable to the Borneo States­ the Malaysian nation rather than on a there are reservations in the IGC part of the Malaysian nation. Report-we have to consult the two Borneo States before we extend the Sir, the other point which I would provisions to these two States. Further­ like to touch on is this question of more, of course, there is the question penalty that is provided for in Clause of physical limitation of this Exchange, 12. Sir, I am not contesting the amount and until the Exchange can be of the time, but I would like to suggest extended physically there, that is, to to Government that for the very pur­ constitute a body there, it will be pose which has been stated by the difficult at this moment to exend it to Honourable Minister, namely, the the Borneo territories. question of preserving the good name of the rubber Industry with regard to Next, I would like to deal with the the export of standard grades of question of definition of rubber. There rubber, so that consumers will not feel is nothing special in the definition of in any way cheated or disappointed rubber adopted in this Bill. The term with the packing, would the Govern­ adopted is the same as adopted in ment not consider it necessary to other legislation concerning rubber and provide for power of revocation or it is necessary to be consistent in the annulment of certificates of persons definition of "rubber". who have habitually contravened the Next, I come to the third point purposes of this Act, or who have raised by the Honourable Member for been reported on several occasions by Sarawak with regard to Clause 6 different consumers to have not regarding the charging of fees to be complied with the standards that are imposed by the Minister. Now, the required. Government is fully aware of the very Sir, this Bill as I understand it keen competition between the natural provides for control by ourselves. To rubber and the synthetic rubber, which some extent, Sir, I feel that, if exporters I have actually mentioned in my do manage to circumvent the examin­ speech; and if necessary the Govern­ ing authorities which the Bill provides ment will consult the industry as to the for, and rubber of different quality fees to be imposed. reaches the consumers, the consumers' With regard to a number of points protests should be recorded; and such raised by the Honourable Member for protest; if they constantly refer to any­ Tanjong in connection with the one particular exporter, he should revocation of certificates, or refusal to come under penalty and, therefore, it issue certificates for those, who might be worthwhile under those repeatedly contravene the provisions of circumstances to provide for the the Act, this will be a matter which Minister with the power of revocation the Minister will look into and of of certificates. course, under Clause 14 the Minister Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob: Mr Speaker, has the power to make such regula­ Sir, I would like to reply to the tions as he may deem necessary for the identical point raised by both Members proper control of this registration of Sarawak and Member for Tanjong, process. Although it is true that under that is the applicability of these two the Bill, there is no provision to cancel Acts to the Borneo territories. Now, the certificates for non-compliance, but I must repeat to this House again, that as I have said, this matter will be both the present Rubber Export looked into by the Minister. Registration Bill and the previous Question put, and agreed to. amendment Bill to the Federation Rubber Exchange do not apply at Bill accordingly read a second time present to the Borneo States. They only &nd committed to a Committee of the apply to the States of Malaya for two whole House. obvious reasons. One is, of course, that House immediately resolved inself before we can make any of our Federal into a Committee on the Bill. 7249 25 MARCH 1966 7250 Bill considered in Committee. excluded from the operation of this Bill. (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Mr Speaker, Sir, as you are well Clauses I to 14 inclusive ordered to aware, there have been repeated stand part of the Bill. instances, where innocent members of First Schedule ordered to stand part the public have fallen victims of of the Bill. rapacious and unscrupulous persons, who pose as housing developers and Second Schedule ordered to stand obtain substantial deposits as booking part of the Bill. fees for houses, which they not only Bill reported without amendment: do not intend to build but also are in read the third time and passed. no position to do so. I also have per­ sonally received a continuous stream of THE HOUSING DEVELOPERS letters from several persons concerned (CONTROL AND LICENSING) that they have paid deposits for BILL houses in housing scheme and found to their dismay that no houses were Second Reading being built and that they could not The Minister of Local Government and recover their deposits. A good parallel Housing (Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob): to this are the mushroom insurance Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that companies which, only a few years a Bill intituled "an Act to provide for ago prior to the introduction of the the control and licensing of the Insurance Act, 1963, swindled igno­ business of housing developments in rant people of millions of dollars. the States of Malaya and for matters I would like to quote, with your per­ connected therewith" be now read a mission, Sir, a few cases to illustrate second time. my point. Sir, the Bill is a straightforward one Case "A"- and, as explained in the Explanatory In November, 1964, a resident of lpoh Note to the Bill, it will, among other addressed the Minister for Local Govern­ ment and Housing stating that in January, things, empower the Minister to issue 1964, he booked a terrace house from directions to a licensed housing Company "A" for which he paid a deposit developer for the purpose of safe­ of $1,800. The house costs $9,000 and he guarding the interest of purchasers, was told he could occupy the house at the end of the year. At the time of writting make such other general directions as the letter, which was 11 months later, no are considered appropriate and to work had commenced. He asked for the carry out investigations into the affairs return of his deposit but this was refused. of housing developers. Power is also Case "B"- given to the Minister to make rules for In June, 1965, a resident of Kuala the purpose of administering the Bill. Lumpur addressed the Minister for Local Government and Housing stating that in The Bill provides certain conditions September, 1964, Company "B" called for which must be fulfilled before a booking deposits for their housing project in Gombak Road. They collected $2,000 housing developer is issued with a each from about 100 prospective pur­ licence to carry on any housing chasers. In about April, 1965, seven development. Provision is made for months later, they obtained a second the Controller of Housing to revoke a deposit of between $3,000 to $3,500 for the houses. Up till June, 1965 nine months licence issued to a housing developer later, no work was commenced much to where the housing developer does not the consternation of the purchasers meet his obligations. Provision is also although completion of the houses was made for a licensed developer to be promised by August, 1965. The writer requested the Ministry to introduce suit­ heard before his licence is revoked, able legislation to control hous:ng deve­ and the housing developer has the lopers. right to appeal to the Minister against Case "C"- any decision of the Controller. This In June, 1965, a resident of Klang and Bill will only apply to the States of 16 others addressed the Minister for Local Malaya, and co-operative societies are Government and Housing stating that he 7251 25 MARCH 1966 7252 and 16 others booked a house each from the provisions contained in this Bill. Company "C" in Klang. This was in There appears to be some mis.givings 1961, four years earlier. They paid the deposits required of them. i.e., $1,300 for i!n certain quarters regarding the intro­ a terrace house and $5,000 for a semi­ duction of this Bill. For instance, the detached house and all these years the Kim Tin Seah, an Association of so-called developer has been making use of the money paid to him as deposits. Penang and Province Wellesley Build­ Since then these people have been pressing ing Contractors and Building Materials' the developer to build but without any Suppliers held an emergency meeting to response. In July, 1964, Company "C" discuss the Bill and considered the invited the purchasers to the Head Office in Kuala Lumpur whereupon they were hardships that would be imposed on told that house plans had been changed. them. They even went to the extent of The price of a terrace house was raised saying that this Bill is the death knell from $5,000 to $11,000 and the cost of for the industry. They fear that the land from 80 cents per square foot to $1.20. In the case of semi-detached houses, introduction of this Bill would adversely the price ·was increased from $16,000 to affect the building industry and that $18,000. This Company called for a further lots of workers in the industry will deposit of $900 for the · terrace house become unemployed. The meeting re­ and $1,000 for the semi-detached. If any­ one disagreed with the new arrangements, solved that they should appeal to the the Company was willing to return the Minister foc Local Government and original deposit. Despite the unfairness of Housing to reconsider his decision on the whole position the persons concerned the relevant clauses which affect the agreed to this arrangement, reluctantly. small developers. and this I have The Houses were completed in 1964 received., I would like to take this and could not be occupied, because water opportunity to allay the fears of build­ and electricity had not been connected. The developer was also to blame for not ing developers, especially the small having taken the necessary steps to ensure time developers. It will be seen from that water and electricity was available. Clause 6 of section 2 that the Minister This was taken up by the Ministry with has absolute discretion to waive any the Town Council. On the same case, the Malay Mail on November 29th, 1965, or all the conditions set out in para­ referred to a petition to the Honourable graphs (a), (b) or (ll) of sub-section 1 Prime Minister by 200 residents in Klang of Clause 6. If a bona fide applicant seeking his assistance in obtaining certifi­ for a licence under this Act is unable cates of occupation for the new houses in the housing estate in Klang they to comply with one or more of the bought four years before that. The Town conditions set out in Clause 6 of the Council refused them the certificates, Act, he should then produce cogent because the houses were not in accordance reasons for not being able to comply to plans required by the Council. The Council was trying to get the contractor with such conditions. It shall be in my to fulfil the requirements. discretion, therefore, having considered all the reasons, to waive the whole or I, therefore, consider that legislative part of the conditions, if necessary. measures should be taken to protect the The Act provides for am. applicant to people from bogus and or unscrupu­ make a cash deposit of $100,000 or lous housing developers. Hence this in such other form as the Minister may Bill. determine-this could, for example, Now, again, Sir, this subject has take the form of banker's guarantee. I evoked much public interest in recent cannot accept the argument that the months, and there is no doubt that :Bill would adversely affect the small some form of control must be exercised developers. centrally by Government though hous­ ing and provision of housing accom­ I shall now reply to the points made modation is a State subject. No bona by this Association. They, the deve­ fide developer, however, need have any lopers, firstly, contend that they, the fear of this legislation. developers, would not be able to carry on with the business and must stop The Ministry of Local Government operation thus causing untold hard­ and Housing is currently drawing up ships to themselves and their workers' Rules under Section 24 (i) of this Bill families. My reply is that, I do not see for the purpose of implementing any reason why small developers should 7253 25 MARCH 1966 7254 not be able to carry on their business. a pre-condition to licensing. There is The whole purpose of this Bill is to no reason for doing this, since, as I prevent the bogus developer from said, there already exists power by the cheating the public. The genuine deve­ Minister to relax, or waive, under loper need have no fear, and conditions Sub-section 2 of Clause 6. The fears can be relaxed, if the reasons advanced on the part of the Association are are genuine and acceptable. mainly imaginary and do not have substance. Any genuine bona fide The second point raised is that the developer need have no fear whatso­ Bill would disrupt the education of ever. The Bill is primarily intended to their children and those of the workers. protect the house-purchasing public This is certainly not true, and the same and not to stifle the building industry. argument against the first question I would also add, Sir, that all State applies. Governments have been consulted and Thirdly, they contend the Bill would they have given their unqualified affect the livelihood of tens of thou­ support to this Bill and also, as sands of wockers and, here, again I required under Article 95 (A) of the cannot see how this argument can Malaysian Constitution, the Bill has stand. been agreed to by the National Council for Local Government at a Fourthly, they contend that the Bill meeting held recently. would retard housing development in the Penang State-I see my Honourable Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. Member for Penang Utara is busily talcing notes! This is, again not true. Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, I It is not the intention of our Ministry beg to second the motion. to curb and stifle building develop­ ment in the private sector. The Bill Enche' Hanafiah bin Hussain: should, in fact, produce the opposite Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg for your per­ effect in that since people are now mission to speak not in Bahasa afforded the protection of this Bill, Kebangsaan. they will go forward with confidence to I rise to commend this Bill to the any licensed developer to purchase a House. Having gone through the house. This should generate more clauses, I am of the opinion that the building activities. control sought by means of licensing in the manner set out in this Bill is A further point raised by them is that comprehensive and will no doubt deter a social problem will be created when any bogus developers from embarking tens of thousands of both skilled and upon any housing development pro­ unskilled workers were thrown out of jects. However, Sir, in one respect I work. Now, I can give them the assu­ consider the control rather excessive rance that this will not happen. and is not called for. I refer, Sir, to Finally, the last point raised by them the additional control to be imposed is that the small developers, all of through the appointment of auditor. whom are in Penang State, were using Clause 9 (2) stipulates that, "No private capital which did not generally person having an interest in the busi­ exceed $100,000-sufficient in · the ness of a licensed housing developer sense that the cost of construction of, either as a shareholder-shall be say 5 houses, will usually not exceed eligible for appointment as an auditor $100,000. Now, here again, I have al­ of such housing developer". Personal­ ready stated that the Minister has ly, Sir, I do not see the logic of this powers to make such exemptions as he stipulation. In a very subtle way this deems fit. stipulation, by the manner it is worded, amounts to questioning the Then, the meeting of the contractors integrity of the auditors' profession. resolved to appeal to the Minister to Before I go any further, I would like amend the provisions relating to the to state that my observations here imposition of the $100,000 deposit as are confined only to the developers, 7255 25 MARCH 1966 7256 who operate as a limited company. In tor were appointed to audit the the Companies Act, 1965, Section 9, accounts of the housing development the manner of appointment of auditor company, and if he were at the same is set out in detail. It must have time to own a share or two in the been found very adequate in the same organisation, he would have United Kingdom, in Australia, and in added ground for ensuring-in fact, this country, in ensuring that the he would be more anxious to see to auditors so appointed would be in a it-that the accounts as audited position to discharge their duties in would give a true and fair view of the the best traditions of the profession, state of affairs of the housing develop­ i.e. with the highest standard of ing organisation-there would not be integrity and impartiality. I should a conflict of interest. I am, Sir, on all have imagined that the conditions fours with the Honourable Minister in imposed by the Companies Act, 1965, securing fair and honest business would have been adequate, if similar practice by the developers, so that conditions were inserted in the Hous­ money subscribed and deposited by ing Developers (Control and Licen­ the public is not mis-used. But surely, sing) Bill. Apparently, it has not Sir, the proper control and safeguard b~en found adequate enough, so that should not so much lie on the person in the Housing Developers Bill, now of auditor himself, whose integrity before the House, an additional clause should be unquestionable, but should has been added to Section 9 (2) which lie more in the nature and forms of states that "No person having an accounts that are required to be sub­ interest in the business of a licensed mitted to the Controller of Housing: housing developer either as a share­ for instance, the extent of the trans­ holder . . . . shall be eligible for actions of the business as disclosed by appointment as an auditor of such the balance sheet and profit and loss housing developer." I see no logic in account and other financial statements this. I grant, of course that no should be spelt out in some detail in director, officer, employee, or agent, of this Bill. In order that an effective a licensed housing developer shall be control could be exercised by the eligible for appointment as an auditor Controller of Housings in addition to of such housing developer, as there the other relevant information required would decidedly be a conflict of in the Companies Act, 1965, the interest between the auditor's position accounts of the Housing Developer on the management and the auditor's should show, in order to arrive at a position as an auditor. But a share­ true and fair view of the state of holder's interest in any company affairs of the developer, items like the remains a shareholder's interest as emoluments of the Chairman, the such. His interest in any business number of directors, whose emolu­ organisation even in the housing ments fall into various incumbents­ developers organisation as a limited for instance, the immediate regulation company is at variance with the of service contract, which can give interests of the management or board directors a lien on future profit, for of directors. The share holders, having instance, like disclosure as to the their funds to the management, are effective ownership of company entitled to have access to information developer that might be disguised by on the manner their funds are being nominee, the disclosure of inside utilised. They are keen to know if trading, information about the sub­ the business of housing development, sidiaries and associated company for instance, is being pursued and developer, regular valuation of fixed handled by the management as assets and details of turnover and expected of them. In short, there are profit divided into classes of business. two sides of the coin. The share­ holder and the investor on the one Sir, the fact that the Minister of side and the directors and the whole Finance has the power of approving management on the other. It stands any application for appointment as to reason, therefore, that if an audi- auditor is more than adequate in 7257 25 MARCH 1966 7258 ensuring that only professionally quali­ property owners combining with deve­ fied persons of the highest integrity lopers or contractors, participating in are appointed as auditors; merely by development phase by phase. There owning a small share in an organisa­ are also contractors purchasing small tion of a limited company should not plots of one acre or two acres, or disqualify a person from being sites, and participating in piecemeal appointed as an auditor, as this projects, which are carried out accord­ restriction will not be effective and is ing to approved plans. difficult to enforce. I, therefore, Sir, urge the Honourable Minister to The increased volume of house ponder over these points carefully and, owners has given reflection to the if he considers it justifiable, to delete success of our establishing a property at a later date the following words in owning democracy. This, too, had Clause 9 (2) of this Bill. attracted "smart Alexes" or bogus operators who want to cash in on this "No person having an interest in the busi­ flourishing business. ness of a licensed housing developer either as a shareholder or otherwise and"-those This legislation will no doubt words-and at line 7, the words, "acquire exclude those black sheep or bogus an interest in the business of the Licensed housing developer or". developers, but it will also create hardship to genuine housing deve­ Thank you very much, Sir. lopers of areas of two acres and below, Sitting suspended at 6 p.m. with this imposition of $500,000 paid­ up capital or a deposit of $100,000 with the Controller of Housing. Under Sitting resumed at 6.15 p.m. such imposed conditions, only the (Mr Speaker in the Chair) well-financed, or financially sound housing developers can operate, and Enche' Geh Chong Keat (Penang as a result the prices of houses may Utara): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like start to soar upwards due to lack of to compliment the Honourable Minis­ competition, and may also lead to ter for Local Government and Housing monopoly or price fixing control in for presenting this Housing Developers housing developments among the big (Control and Licensing) Bill as a organisations; and if this were to protection for the purchasers of houses happen, Mr Speaker, Sir, perhaps, our in privately developed estates. Quite Government may be accused of assis­ often these purchasers, in their eager­ ting the rich to be richer and making ness to own houses, suffered bitter the poor poorer. experiences, as in some cases even though the purchase agreements were After hearing the personal assurance drawn through those who know the from the Honourable Minister for legal technicalities and procedures, the Local Government and Housing in his time factor of completion and handing reply to dispel the fear of the members over were not clearly specified; and of Kim Tin Siah, Penang Island, or the consequence is that many of these the State of Penang, I support this purchasers had ·been victimised and Bill, as it is necessary and fair. How­ were not given occupation of their ever, I request the Honourable Minis­ houses within the expected time. ter to take into consideration cases of development of pocket plots of two With our Government's repeated acres and under with density of assurances of encouraging a property approximately ten housing units per owning democracy, and the growing acre. Therefore, in a two-acre plot of prosperity within our happy nation, approximately twenty single storeyed there was a big boom-and it has not terrace houses type, priced at approxi­ reached the saturation point yet-in mately $6,500 per unit, the total sell­ privately developed housing schemes ing price may be around $130,000, but and estates in several States. Like all the construction cost may be less than flourishing businesses or trades, these the deposit of $100,000; and if this are big organisations, semi-big deve­ scheme is a joint venture between the lopers, small developers, consisting of landowner and a contractor the cost of 7259 25 MARCH 1966 7260 the development is well under the ing controlled area of any Local $100,000 deposit required. Similarly, Authority, if the interests of the pur­ one acre plot of ten units will propor­ chasers are to be really to be pro­ tionately cost much less than the tected. The reason is that there are $100,000 deposit required under this housing developments in outside build­ Bill, which means that in both cases it ing controlled areas of Local Autho­ is more than 100 per cent deposit of rities, and these developers need not the capital. comply with the existing Building By­ laws, or come under the supervision of Sir, I would like also to bring to the the Local Authority, thus resulting in Honourable Minister's attention that sub-standard developments, such as with many well financed foreign firms poor roads and drainage, lower ceiling being awarded large development pro­ height, narrow doors and passages, jects in this country, and they are also small living room space, poor density competing with local contractors for with as many houses squeezed into the other various development projects in building area. Such sub-standard hous­ this country, our Malaysian contrac­ ing developments must be curbed, or tors are forced to turn to housing the purchasers will be exploited to the developments to keep their skilled and fullest. In this connection, I must also unskilled workers employed. There­ give credit to the few developers, who fore, it is with the fear that their develop on the approved plan prin­ avenue of trade may be closed or ciple, even though their developments narrowed through the passing of this are well outside the building con­ Bill that they present their fears to the trolled areas of some Local Autho­ Honourable Minister. rities. I fully endorse the safeguards of the Sir, I suggest that proper iegislation interests of the purchasers of houses, to eliminate sub-standard development and I am also sure that there are many is very essential, as the process of more ways of protection; for example, amendment to existing ordinances or specification in time of completion, by-laws is too slow to catch up with specification of materials and planning fast housing developments, which are supervision, which the Honourable spreading out-not to mention the Minister must look into. Sir, I request sub-standard developments. for the relaxation on the relevant In Penang, the Local Authority is clauses, so that the workers' livelihood still negotiating with the State Govern­ can be protected, as well as that the ment for the last two to three years for progress of the development of private the expansion of building controlled properties or enterprises of two acres areas to cover and prevent these sub­ and under must not be hampered or standard developments from spreading. curbed. Therefore, I request the Hon­ If it is considered that this is a matter ourable Minister to set up a sliding which would properly come under the scale of capital as well as deposits, laws relating to the control of building depending primarily upon the costs plans, then I would suggest that the and types of the houses, and the Honourable Minister may, as the relative size of the developments by Minister of Local Government, take phases or as a whole, and also giving steps to amend or standardise these his consideration for developments of laws, so that sub-standard houses can­ not more than 20 units for two acres not be put up outside the building of housing accommodation, which may controlled area of any Local Autho­ be or are erected by such develop­ rity. I undersand that the National ments. Council for Local Government would be the best authority for achieving Sir, I would also appeal to the these purposes, because the policy be­ Honourable Minister to include in the sides decisions are binding on reluctant provision of this Bill the control of State Government. Thank you, Sir. the construction or development of sub-standard housing units in any Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, development scheme outside the build- Sir, I rise to speak on the Housing 7261 25 MARCH 1966 7262 Developers (Control and Licensing) that in the absence of a cash deposit, Bill, and I wish to comment on what a banker's guarantee would be suffi­ has been said by two of the previous cient and, if I heard him correctly, I • speakers. Here I am placed in the-I think, he also said that any other don't know whether to call it-invi­ guarantees would be sufficient, I do dious or strange position of trying to hope that the Minister will exercise defend the Minister from what has this discretionary power as liberally as been stated by his own back benchers. possible; and one way out of it would I refer to what has been said about be, as the Honourable Member for Clause 9 (2) regarding a proposal by Penang Utara has suggested, a sliding the Member for Jerai. He has almost scale, but I think there is a far better vehemently opposed this clause here way than a sliding scale, after we see which reads, "No person having an how the Minister implements this interest in the business of a licensed question of capital, or of a deposit. housing developer either as a share­ Here, I wish to say that if it is a big holder or otherwise", and he has company, then I would say that the suggested that that should be deleted­ Minister should insist on a paid up ! presume, he speaks from an account­ capital of $5 million, or if it is a big ant's point of view. He says that that company also, there is no reason why places undue hardship on an account­ he should not insist on a cash deposit ant. Mr Speaker, Sir, it is not always of $100,000. What the Honourable that I stand up in this House to defend Member for Penang Utara is afraid of a Minister from the attacks of his and what I too am afraid of is that back-bencher, but this much I will the small developer may not be able say: that as a professional man I to find that money; and I think that would like to see that justice not only the assurances given by the Honour­ should be done, but must be seen to able Minister are adequate-at least be done. He has conceded the fact let us give him a chance to show his that no director, officer, or employee, performance in this matter in the next or agent of a housing developer, few months. Perhaps, if he is unduly should be an auditor. Why should not hard on the small developer, if I bring he carry it to the logical conclusion a motion to this effect, I hope the that a person, who is a shareholder, Member for Penang Utara will support who has a pecuniary interest in the me. development project, if he is an auditor may well-I don't say he does, or he Now, having said that, Mr Speaker, will do it-prepare, or shall I say Sir, I would say that I am in complete "cook", the accounts to suit his own agreement generally with the whole purpose, and that of other interested Bill, and if I have to say a little that parties in the said company. As such is at variation with the whole Bill, it I would say that the Minister would is perhaps my ignorance, being not a be well advised to leave this additional capitalist, or having got very little to safeguard that is lacking in the Com­ do with the capitalists, and I hope the panies Act. Minister will pardon my ignorance, if I ask him a few questions. I also notice that the Member for Penang Utara, while complimenting Mr Speaker, Sir, firstly, he talks the Minister on this Bill, has stated about these deposits-and these that it places undue hardship on the deposits, I agree, are very necessary if small developer, but later on he goes you are dealing with bogus developers. on to say that he is thoroughly satis­ Sir, I think, nowhere in the Bill is it fied with what the Minister has said. stated as to what happens where if you put a deposit, and then supposing the Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to say that, developer is unable to fulfil the condi­ when I first read the Bill and when I tions. I do not see anywhere that it is saw this protest from Penang, I said to be forfeited. I presume that the thought that there was a case for it. deposit is a deterrent and will be But having heard the Minister forfeited, if the conditions of the explained, particularly, when he said agreement are not fulfilled. 7263 25 MARCH 1966 7264 The other thing that I wish to bring not think it is that. Anyway, there is up to the attention of the Minister is a clause stating that he can carry on this: it says here, Mr Speaker, Sir, and then apply later. What I wish to that the Minister can make rules. Now, point out to the Minister is what does it mean that the rules that the happens, if he is already under opera­ Minister makes from time to time can tion and then later on applies for a supersede agreements? That is a thing, licence and then the Ministry finds as I said, in my ignorance, I would that one of its persons involved comes like to have a little clarification. The within this category of 6 (c) of a third thing is Mr Speaker, Sir, what person, who is convicted of fraudulent about developers who are rich enough, practice, or of dishonesty? That I who do not require deposits from commend to the Honourable the would be purchasers. Are they also Minister. required to pay in a deposit? Mr Speaker, Sir, Clause 12 talks Mr Speaker, Sir, I regret to say that about, "The Minister may give to a this Bill talks about the law being licensed housing developer such direc­ applied to the States of Malaya only. tions as he considers fit". Now, Mr Why should not the law, if it is found Speaker, Sir, I would be very grateful necessary in the States of Malaya, be if the Minister gives us, at least, a hint applicable throughout Malaysia? After of what such directions may be, all, I believe that if there are bogus because if these directions are too operators of housing in the States of many it may well mean that the Malaya, presumably if their operations Ministry may want to divert the busi­ are stopped here, they may well run ness for the developer-and I think across the seas. With housing presum­ this is a genuine fear of some deve­ ably being also short in Sabah and lopers. A clarification by the Minister Sarawak, they can also spread their as regards the interpretation of "such tentacles there, or does the Minister directions as he considers fit" will wish us to believe that there are no assuage the fears of a good many bogus developers in the States of developers. Sabah and Sarawak? I do hope that Then, again, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister will give us a satisfactory regarding Clause 11 (c)-Clause 11 (c) reply as to why this new law is meant reads "with the concurrence of the only for the States of Malaya. Is it Minister of Finance direct a company because that only bogus developers are to assume control ...." Now, Mr found in the States of Malaya? Speaker, again, I would be very grate­ ful, if the Minister will clarify what Again, Mr Speaker, Sir, I only seek "a company" means, because as it a clarification. This does not mean stands it is very ambiguous and may that I am criticising the Bill wholesale. be subject to abuse. Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, under 6 (c) it is stated that, "unless the applicant is Having said all these Mr Speaker, not himself or itself nor having as one Sir, I shall conclude by congratulating of his or its members or partners a the Minister on bringing such a Bill person who is convicted of an offence that is long overdue before this House. involving fraud or dishonesty or is an The instances of malpractices that undischarged bankrupt . . .". It quite have been cited in his introduction of really says that these people should this Bill is adequate justification that not get licence. But, under Clause 5 we must all pass this Bill in toto with­ (2), it states, "Except with the written out any amendment, even regarding consent of the Controller no person, or the question of auditors. body of persons, society, company or firm other than a licensed housing Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Tuan developer shall assume or use in rela­ Yang di-Pertua, saya rasa, pehak tion to the business or any part of the Menteri Perumahan dan Kerajaan Bill of such person, body of persons, Tempatan, patut di-beri sa-kalong society, company or firm the words bunga raya, di-atas Rang Undang2 housing developer ...."-No, I do yang di-kemukakan-nya kapada Dewan 7265 25 MARCH 1966 7266 ini, pada hari ini. Kerana perkara ini sendiri tidak fasal2 menjadi satu sebab sangat mustahak bagi menghadapi yang meninggikan perbelanjaan hidup keadaan2 racket yang berlaku dalam di-Kuala Lumpur dan di-bandar2 yang perkara pembangunan rumah yang besar di-Malaya ini. Pada hal perkara berjalan sekarang ini di-Kuala Lumpur itu boleh di-kawal dan boleh di­ dan bandar2 besar yang lain. Saya rengankan dan boleh di-turunkan. Ini hanya hendak menyentoh sadikit, satu perkara yang saya rasa patut tentang dorongan kapada mustahak­ mendapat pertimbangan pehak Ke­ nya di-adakan Rang Undang2 sa­ menterian Kerajaan Tempatan dan bagai ini, ia-lah kerana terlalu Perumahan. 2 banyak-nya orang yang merasa > Tuan Yang di-Pertua, satu perkara bahawa mereka boleh menchapai ke­ yang saya rasa hendak memberi ulasan untongan yang segera, dengan meng­ 2 sadikit dalam Clause 6 (2). Saya adakan pembangunan rumah sa-bagai merasa memang sangat patut-lah ini untok di-sewakan. Clause 6 (2) ini ada di-situ bagi Maka keadaan yang sa-benar-nya menjamin supaya "small time house yang harus dan patut di-pertimbangkan developer" atau sharikat2 kechil pem­ sa-lain daripada mengadakan Rang bena rumah dapat peluang untok Undang2 ta-lah satu perkara lain menjalankan pekerjaan masing2• Tetapi ia-itu keadaan rumah2 sewa di-Kuala ada satu perkara dalam Clause 6 (2) Lumpur ini dan di-bandar2 yang besar ini yang memberi kuasa kapada Men­ di-Malaysia pada masa ini terlalu teri untok membebaskan atau untok mahal sewa-nya dan ini menarek ke­ melonggarkan sharat2 yang ada dalam inginan banyak orang untok mendiri­ (a), (b) dan (d). Saya rasa (a) dan (b) kan rumah untok di-buat sewa. Tidak itu patut, tetapi di-dalam (d) itu erti­ ada satu control-tidak ada satu nya Menteri berkuasa juga membuang­ kawalan di-atas rumah2 sewa yang ada kan sharat dalam (d) tadi ia-itu sa­ di-Kuala Lumpur atau di-bandar2 orang yang telah thabit kesalahan besar di-Malaysia ini. Saya merasa, dalam Mahkamah kerana menipu sa-lain daripada Rang Undang2 ini, atau pechah amanah pun Menteri suatu perkara yang patut di-pertim­ boleh juga membuangkan sharat itu bangkan ia-lah mengadakan satu Rang bila dia hendak membuat sharikat Undang2 lain untok mengawal sewa2 rumah. Saya rasa sharat yang ber­ rumah atau pun rent control. Kerana tujuan menchegah bahaya dalam (d) sa-benar-nya saya sendiri ada peng­ ini tidak patut di-longgarkan, saya alaman yang saya dapati di-Kuala rasa bukan sahaja kompeni besar yang Lumpur, sa-buah rumah yang dahulu­ ada orang-nya di-jatohkan hukuman nya di-sewa $100 tiga tahun dahulu dalam Mahkamah kerana menipu atau pada masa ini sewa-nya sudah jadi pechah amanah, tetapi orang persa­ $180. orangan yang di-salahkan dalam Mah­ kamah kerana menipu atau pechah Sa-orang kawan saya dahulu-nya amanah juga harus di-chegah dengan menyewa $150 sa-buah rumah tiga tidak di-beri peluang untok orang bilek dengan penoh furniture. Dia sa-bagai ini menjalankan perusahaan bertukar ka-tempat lain kemudian rumah. Kalau di-kekalkan sharat (d) bertukar balek ka-Kuala Lumpur, dalam Clause 6 (2) ini, dengan tidak rumah itu juga di-sewa-nya dengan di-beri kuasa discretion kapada Men­ alat perkakas itu juga; sewa $150 teri untok membebaskan atau untok naik $250 tidak ada satu kawalan melonggarkan sharat itu, saya rasa ada­ ka-atas sewaan dan ini menimbulkan lah jaminan sadikit. Barangkali boleh bogus house developer yang menyebab­ jadi pehak Menteri yang berkenaan kan mustahak ada-nya Rang Undang2 akan dapat mententeramkan hati orang ini. Maka saya merasa patut di­ yang bimbang dalam perkara ini­ adakan, di-timbangkan untok meng­ orang yang telah salah di-Mahkamah adakan kawalan sewa2 rumah yang kerana menipu atau pechah amanah ada, kerana kalau tidak, sewa rumah tidak di-beri peluang langsong untok akart di-naikkan sa-suka hati tauke2 menipu dan pechah amanah sa-kali rumah-tuan punya rumah. Ini dengan lagi.

------7267 25 MARCH 1966 7268 Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob: Mr Speaker, emphasis I made, when I replied point Sir, I would first like to reply to the by point to the various issues raised Honourable Member for Jerai in by the Contractors' Association in connection with his query, or his Penang-that the Minister, in the case dissatisfaction, over the proviso with of a bona. fide developer has absolute regard to the appointment of the discretion to waive the whole or any auditors. I must thank the Honourable part. I quote the words here, Sir : Member for Batu for having suitably "The Minister may in his absolute discre­ replied to that point, but I would just tion waive any or all the conditions set out like to augment a little bit in addition in paragraphs (a), (b), or (d) of sub-section (1) or substitute any or all of the said con­ to what the Honourable Member for ditions for such other conditions as he may Batu has said. consider fit and proper." Now, it has never been the intention Therefore, all his suggestions about of Clause 9 (2) to question the integrity variations of deposits, such as a sliding of people, who want to become scale, or considering any land of two auditors. It is only to ensure absolute acres and below to be exempted partly independence of persons who want to or otherwise, all these things need not be auditors of housing developers. be written into the law and can be Moreover, the disability is not an taken into consideration by the absolute one. It does not in any way Minister, when he considers the prevent auditors having interest in one question of exemption of part or whole organisation from becoming auditors in of the conditions imposed by Clause 6. another organisation, in which they have no interest. If any person supports Now, with regard to the Honourable the Bill, there is no room for question­ Member's reference to sub-standard ing the propriety of this Clause. housing in Local Authorities areas, I am afraid this is outside the scope of Now, the Honourable Member for this Bill. But this Ministry is in the Batu took the words out of my mouth, process of drawing up a report on when he quoted what the very great minimum standards for low-cost Jurist and Judge Blackstone said, housing which, I hope, will be tabled "Justice must not only be done but it in this House; and this will be the first must also appear to be done". Of step on the road to compiling a course, in this case, integrity must not Building Code for the whole country, only exist, but it must also appear to including the areas outside the Local exist. Authorities' control; and in addition, one of the tasks to be performed by Next, Sir, I come to the various the Royal Commission of Enquiry is points raised by the Honourable also to go into the various laws and Member for Penang Utara. Here, Ordinances pertaining to Local again, I thank the Honourable Member Authorities including such by-laws, for his compliments. However, I am etc., under the Local Authorities. Of afraid that I cannot agree with him course, this will include the building that the price will soar when this Bill by-laws, which I hope the Royal comes into being. because of the lack Commission will look into and report of competition and price fixing racket, back. etc. As I have said in my speech just now, Sir, the very effect of this Bill Now the Honourable Member for will encourage more development of Batu raised a number of points. houses, because more purchasers will Firstly, whether the question of de­ come into the open, as they know for posits can be forfeited, whether the absolute certainty that they would not rules will supercede agreements : the have to face all the uncertainties of rules and regulations will be drawn being cheated, or being bluffed into up-in fact, the Ministry is in the paying deposits for years without the process of drawing all these up, and realisation of having a house to stay. when these are published they will I am afraid that the Honourable answer all the points raised by the Member probably did not get the Honourable Member for Batu. 7269 25 MARCH 1966 7270 As to the query why this Bill does to a licensed housing developer such not extend to the Borneo States, the directions as he considers fit and answer is a simple one. It is not · a proper . . . . ", in the various situations question that I have such great confi­ arising under this, we may have i:l case dence that no bogus developer will whereby we feel that the developer is proceed to Borneo territories; rather not carrying out his obligations as he that, under the l.G.C. Report housing should under an agreement; and. of is a State matter and under the I.G.C. course, all agreements will have to be Report there are lots of reservations submitted to the Ministry for approval pertaining to the Borneo States, and to ensure that no excessive deposits until the concurrence of the Borneo are being demanded and that there States is obtained, no Federal legisla­ should be a specified date of comple­ tion, such as this one, which is actually tion etc.; and should any complaint under the State-it is a State matter­ be made by the purchasers, the can be extended to the Borneo States Ministry will issue such directions to without first obtaining their concur­ the developers. This is to enable the rence. In fact, if I am correct in my developers to catch up with these recollection, representatives from the obligations; and, of course, on refusal State Governments of the Borneo to comply with the directions, then we States were present at the National may take such drastic actio~ as Council for Local Government in necessary, such as the cancellation of which this Bill was discussed. But his licence. nevertheless, they have not indicated their desire or otherwise of having this Another point raised by the Honow·­ extended to their territories; so, we able Member is regarding 11 (1) (c) will have to confine ourselves for the which says, "with the concurrence of time being to the States of Malaya and the Minister of Finance direct a this is a matter for my Ministry to company to assume control . . . .". follow up with a view to extending this This is to envisage a case whereby a to the Borneo States. developer, or his company, is facing insolvency or something of that nature, Now, the Honourable Member also and in order that the situation does not touched upon the question of existing deteriorate further, and therefore the developers. All existing developers purchasers are put in a very bad will, of course, be allowed to continue position, the Minister can, with the to operate until such time as their concurrence of the Minister of Finance, applications for licences are refused, direct another building company to but this does not mean that they cannot complete the scheme, so as to take it continue to operate and some of the out of the hands of the developer who less well-intentioned developers can may be on the verge of bankruptcy or get away with it, because every something of that nature-and, of developer, as soon as this Act comes course, the safeguard is here in that into operation, will be required to the concurrence of the Minister of submit applications, and in the appli­ Finance will have to be obtained; and cation forms etc., they will have to as to what company, this is a matter declare, as in the past, whether they of the surrounding circumstances at have been convicted, etc., etc., and of that time: for instance, I have in mind course, on receipt of such information a situation something like this, where from the applicant, action will be taken you have "A" developer developing a for refusal to be issued. On any number of houses in a certain site and application being refused, whether the there is another developer side by developer is an existing developer or side of the developer "A". Of course, not, he will have to cease operations we may be able to arrange for the forthwith. developer "B", if we feel that With regard to a further point raised developer "A" is not in a position to by the Honourable Member for Batu complete the scheme, to direct that regarding the directions under Clause developer "A" should hand over all 12 which says, "The Minister may give the operations to developer "B". of 7271 25 MARCH 1966 7272 course, with the agreement drawn Bill considered in Committee. between the developer "A" and developer "B" and under the super­ (Mr Speaker in the Chair) vision of the Ministry. All these are, Clauses 1 to 24 inclusive ordered to of course, details which have to be stand part of the Bill. worked out by my Ministry. Schedule ordered to stand part of Finally, I come to the Honourable the Bill. Member for Kuala Trengganu Utara, Bill reported without amendment : who raised the question of control of read the third time and passed. rent in Kuala Lumpur. This is for premises completed after the 1st of THE WORKERS (MINIMUM September-I am not quite good in STANDARDS OF HOUSING) dates; I think some time in 1947 or BILL 1948; any premises built after that date is not subject to rent control, and Second Reading I am afraid this is purely a question Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr Spea­ of demand and supply. I am not quite ker, Sir, I beg to move that "the sure if the Honourable Member is not Workers (Minimum Standards of too correct in saying that the rent has Housing) Bill, 1966," be now read a gone up in Kuala Lumpur recently. second time. On the contrary, from reports I have received in my Ministry, rent has, in The Explanatory Statement attached fact, gone down in the course of the to the Bill sets out, in some detail, the last 18 months. With regard to a aim and the salient provisions of the further point raised by the Honourable Bill. The aim of the Bill, Sir, is to Member for Kuala Trengganu Utara consolidate and revise the legal provi­ that Clause 6 (2) should not exist and sions relating to the housing of workers that the Minister should not have the now contained in the remaining portions power to exempt, I think I need not of the Labour Code and the various say further . . . . . Enactments of the separate States of Malaya, so as to bring these up-to-date. Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Tuan In so doing, this Bill is part of the Yang di-Pertua, untok penjelasan. comprehensive exercise now being Saya mengatakan bahawa Fasal 6 (2) undertaken in my Ministry, to review patut ada, tetapi Fasal 6 (2) yang and to bring up-to-date all labour laws. memberi kuasa kapada Menteri untok The existing Labour Code and the waive Fasal (I) (d) sahaja. Fasal 6 (1) various other Enactments do not pro­ (d) patut tidak ada kuasa kapada vide sufficiently clear or precise stan­ Menteri oleh kerana perkara ini ber­ dards for workers' accommodation, gantong kapada orang yang telah nor the exact procedure to be followed "convicted of an offence involving by employers in submitting plans for fraud or dishonesty". such accommodation for approval by my Ministry. They also have, in my Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob: I thank the opinion, a serious defect in that they Honourable Member for the clarifi­ stipulate the type of building to be cation. I can assure the Honourable constructed rather than set out pre­ Member that as far as Clause 6 (1) (d) cisely the standards to be followed in is concerned, that discretion would not constructing them. The Labour Code be freely exercised by the Minister. in this respect is so out-dated and Thank you, Sir. their provisions so scattered that they Question put, and agree_d to. are not even now clearly or widely known among employees. The Bill Bill accordingly read a second time before the House will remedy these and committed to a Committee of the short-comings. whole House. Nevertheless, Sir, I must point out House immediately resolved itself tha.t, over the years as a result of vigi­ into a Committee on the Bill. lance by my officers, the co-operation 7273 25 MARCH 1966 7274 of employers and workers' trade unions, The Bill, by itself, is merely an the type, standard and number of enabling one, prescribing the powers houses provided for workers in Malaya of the Minister, the Commissioner of have shown a marked improvement. Labour, the Medical Officer of Health There were, at the end of last year, and the P.W.D. Executive Engineer, roughly 141,000 units of permanent­ and stipulating the procedure regarding type housing provided by employers the submission of plans, the adjudica­ in places of employment within my tion of appeals and the penalties for Ministry's jurisdiction. Of these, inspec­ infringements. The actual standards of tion reports show that only 10% were housing such as the floor area, the below the standards set out under the heights of ceilings and walls, the dis­ present Labour Code. This compares tance between buildings, the systems of favourably with a total of about 98,000 drainage and ventilation, the require­ units of housing in 1958 with 25 % of ments in respect of kitchens, bathrooms them being sub-standard. By far the and latrines, the procedure and provi­ most marked progress has been made sions concerning temporary buildings, in removing the back-to-back type of and the type of materials to be used in housing that mushroomed in the estates constructing workers' dwelling, are con­ and mines before and during the tained in the Regulations to be made Second World War. There were over under the Act. Though these Regula­ 35,000 such houses in 1952, and at the tions are not required to be submitted end of 1965 these had been reduced to this House, for the convenience of to a mere 238 units. Of the 14,000 units Honourable Members and those vitally sub-standard housing now in existence, concerned with their provisions, as well plans have been approved for the con­ as because of the importance of the new version of a large number to bring provisions contained in them, the first them up to standard, and plans for set of these Regulations have been approximately 3,000 new units of incorporated in the First Schedule to housing have been approved for con­ the Bill itself. struction during this year. This is, I submit to the House, remarkable In addition to the improvements progress indeed in an area, where for narrated earlier, the Bill provides for various reasons change comes, but the following improvements : very slowly. (i) Whereas under the present Labour Code, only places of employment Coming to the Bill itself, Honourable with 50 or more female workers Member would note that its provisions are required to construct and apply only to estates, mines and other maintain a nursery for dependent places of employment outside Municipal children, the Bill provides, in and Town Council limits, as the hous­ clause 9, that, where there are 10 ing by-laws of these areas adequately or more children under 3 years cater for such matters. of age, a nursery with free supply of milk to the children must be Sir, the Bill does not compel emp­ provided; loyees to provide accommodation for (ii) The size of habitable area in any their workers, but merely seeks to dwelling has been increased from prescribe the minimum standards to be 160 sq. ft. to 200 sq. ft. followed where such accommodation is, or is to be, provided under any (iii) A bathroom must be provided existing arrangements or agreement whereas this was not a require­ with their workers. By and large, as ment under the old law. the figures I quoted earlier bear out, The Bill itself is reasonably self­ employers, especially in estates and explanatory and I, therefore, do not at mines, have found it both l:onvenient this stage propose to dwell at length and of mutual benefit to themselves on its details. and to their workers to house their workers on the place of employment This Bill, Sir, has been on the draft­ itself. ing board for some time and I must 7275 25 MARCH 1966 7276 thank the National Joint Labour regret, therefore, that large numbers Advisory Council, especially the mem­ of Railway employees will be placed bers of the Housing Sub-Committee, quite outside the purview of the very for their painstaking effort in preparing laudable intentions of the Bill. this Bill. I must also add a word of thanks to the officials of the various Sir, not only does the Bill leave Ministries, including my own, who public employees out of its jurisdiction, have been associated with this effort. but Clause 3 of the Bill gives power to the Minister to exempt from all or any Sir, I beg to move. of the provisions of the Bill any emp­ Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: Sir, loyer or class of employers or any I beg to second the motion. building or class of buildings. Sir, I would want the Minister to explain Enche' C. v. Devan Nair: Mr Spea­ what is the point of laying down mini­ ker, Sir, this Bill is remarkable not mum standards of housing for workers, for what it provides but for what it fails if certain employers or classes of to provide. Sir, it bristles with acts of employers may be exempted from its omission. First, the Act shall apply provisions. The law does not exempt only to the States of Malaya. Are we to any citizen from the prescribed penal­ assume, Sir, that the States of Sabah ties for criminal acts. Why then should and Sarawak are not worthy of con­ the law exempt employers from pre­ sideration and that employers in these scribed obligations to provide minimum two States can do what they like in standards of housing to any worker or respect of the housing of their group of workers? Why this clause to employees? exempt employers from conforming with prescribed minimum standards of Next, Sir, the application of the Bill housing? will not affect any place of employment or part thereof situated within the area Let me take now, Sir, Clause 8 (1), of a municipality, town council or any and this does include an absurd pro­ place of employment situated within vision. The Minister is given power the area of any other local authority "to declare any building or class of as may be declared by the Minister. buildings unsuitable for the housing of In effect, Sir, this means that most of workers;" and if such a declaration is the urban areas in Malaya are placed made, no employer shall use the build­ outside the preview of the Bill. A ing affected by the declaration for the large proportion of the workers, Sir, housing of its workers unless the build­ live within municipal or town council ing affected has not yet completed areas and they will not enjoy the pro­ twenty-five years of existence. It is tection conferred by this Bill. Is it, Sir, also stated in the Explanatory State­ because the Government's intention is ment, "in which case such building to prescribe minimum standards of may be continued"-even though it is housing for everybody except for public unsuitable-"to be so used until it has employees? Are employees of the completed twenty-five years of life." Government and various statutory In other words, Sir, if workers' quarters boards to be without any minimum happen to be utterly deplorable and standards of housing? Does this not worthy of being declared unsuitable mean that the Government, as an by the Minister, they still will escape employer, will not be obliged to observe demolition if they are not twenty-five minimum standards of housing for its years old. I would like to ask, Sir, what own employees, for public employees? kind of stupidity this is? Does this mean Let us, for example, Sir, take the case that those workers who at present dwell of Railway employees. Railway quar­ in quarters unfit for human habitation ters are largely situated in municipal will have to continue dwelling in such and town council areas. Most of these places until the quarters have become quarters are several years old, and twenty-five years old? Sir, if the Hon­ many of them are unfit for human ourable Minister's family lives in such habitation. It is a matter of very great a building-unsanitary, unhygienic and 7277 25 MARCH .1966 7278 a breeding ground for social delin­ Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Sir, I was quents, for tuberculosis-would be saying that if the Bill is passed into agree to condemn his family for another law, it will only benefit a select section twenty or so years merely to wait of workers in the plantations and in for the building to come to twenty-five the rural areas, who are either moving years of age? Sir, where is that spark into new quarters or whose quarters of humanity upon which this Govern­ have come of age at twenty-five, and ment has so often prided itself, and provided both categories are not sometimes quite justly? Sir, this Bill is exempted by the Minister under Clause so woolly, so badly prepared, and I put 3 of the Bill from enjoying minimum it to the Honourable Minister with the standards of housing. And, Sir, what best of intentions, that the intention happens to the countless thousands of behind this Bill is not to genuinely urban workers who presently dwell in prescribe minimum standard of housing quarters, whatever habitation it may be, for all workers in the country but to Sir, but not for human habitation? On enable, perhaps, the Government to this score, Sir, I propose that the boast in the International Labour Orga­ Government withdraw this Bill to fill nisation that this Government has a in the omissions which I have enumera­ law which purports to prescribe mini­ ted. If this Bill is really to go on record mum standards of housing for workers, in international circles as really provid­ and thereby Sir, pull the wool over the ing a concrete solution and providing eyes, of such international organisations. minimum standards of housing for workers in all areas of this country, Sir, the Bill, if passed into law, will that has to be done. Otherwise, Sir, I only benefit a select section of workers personally will not give support to this in the plantation and in the rural areas. Bill, because it really does not seek to Let us bear in mind that the municipali­ lay down minimum standards of hous­ ties and town councils and other local ing for all workers in the country, and authorities, which the Minister may I would not want international circles choose to exempt, are quite outside to dismiss this Bill as just a cheap the purview of this Bill. propaganda gimmick, Sir, and I would not want international circles to treat Enche' Khaw Kai-Bob: Sir, for the information of the Honourable Member, it as such. That. is all, Sir. another scheme is being drawn up Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, in respect of those workers. Sir, it is not always that I agree with Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Yes. That the Honourable Member for Bungsar, scheme, as far as I know, entails but in the matter of this Bill before another visit by the Honourable Minis­ the House, I agree with him that this ter for Housing to the United States! Bill bristles with acts of omission and Sir, this Bill, as I say ...... of commission. Like him, I want to ask the Minister why should he men­ Mr tion "Municipality, Town Council or Speaker: I don't think that unless the Minister by order otherwise remark is very reasonable. declares ....", and not specifically mention the biggest group of emplo­ Enche' C. v. Devan Nair: Sir, I beg yees in this country-namely, the to state that I consider that the remark Government servants, and that in­ is parliamentary and it is definitely not cludes the Railway workers, as has unparliamentary. ' been explained by the Member for Mr Speaker: I did not say "unparlia­ Bungsar? Is it because that the Minis­ mentary", but I said "not reasonable." ter of Labour finds that the housing for Government workers is completely Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: It is a satisfactory? Now, if he thinks, so matter of opinion, Sir, and I will stick then I one day if he has the time to to my opinion. come and visit, together with me, a little place known as the Sungei Bulah Mr Speaker: Carry on I Leprosarium. There he will find big 7279 25 MARCH 1966 7280 families with only a small area as a this, Mr Speaker, Sir, because, if I sitting room, a small area as on bed­ remember rightly, Dunlop, before it room, and a much smaller area treated was granted pioneer status blared as a kitchen; and, as I have stated to forth to all and sundry that they would the Honourable Minister of Health not only provide housing but also the rooms leak and the employees would provide a hospital for its there tell me that when there. is rain, workers. l do not know whether the there are pools of water in their homes Minister of Labour, after the establish­ and they have to shift their furniture ment of the factory, and now that the about. That is my own little· small factory . has gone into production, has experience of a little part of Govern­ cared to inquire of Dunlops-whether ment housing. If Government housing there is adequate housing for its is not adequate, then why should not workers, or whether a hospital has the Minister, also, in this Bill, look been provided for its workers. Now, after the interest of Government this is an act of omission that I would workers? like to see remedied in a Bill of this nature, because unless you compel the Another thing is this-the Minister big capitalists by law to provide ade­ is aware that time and again at various quate facilities for their workers in trade union conferences, and from the way of housing, then the capita­ time to time, various trade unions lists-capitalists being the same the have complained about the standards world over, whether local or foreign, of living of Government workers. their motive is a profit motive, the None other than my colleague, the bigger the dividend the happier the former Member for Bungsar, had directors are and the heavier are their many times in this House in the past fees-consequently, they think that raised this matter of the total inade­ housing for those who provide their quacy of housing for Government profits is not a matter of concern to the workers; and, as such, Mr Speaker, management. And I submit that the Sir, I fail to comprehend why the Minister of Labour should look into Minister of Labour has not. in the this matter. Bill, considered the plight of, ·perhaps, some of his own employees in the Like the Member for Bungsar, Mr Ministry of Labour. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to query Clause 3, which says: Mr Speaker, Sir, as I stated before, "The Minister may by order exempt from this Bill bristles with acts of omis­ all or any of the provisions of this Act any employer or class of employers or any sion-the omission of Government building or class of buildings specified in servants is a very glaring one; and it the order." also says, " . . . . unless the Minister Why should the Minister? I agree, the by order otherwise declares . . . .", Minister should have some form of which means that the Minister can discretionary powers, but if one wants also exempt other categories of to place a bad interpretation on it, employers. The Minister in his address does it mean that, supposing some big also says that there is no compulsion M.C.A. tycoon is able to convince the in this matter of provision of housing Minister that he need not provide for workers. Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, housing for his workers or that his that is a very serious matter of omis­ housing is adequate, the Minister sion. We know that in this country under this Clause can exempt such an industries are springing up in various employer? I must assure the Minister industrial estates, and I would have that I am not saying that he will do thought that the Minister for Labour it, but I am saying that this Clause as the Head of the Ministry of Labour gives him the power to do it. As such, in an enlightened, or so-called enligh­ it is a very bad Clause. In this Clause, tened Government, would think of the it is an act of commission, and as such welfare of the workers in these indus­ it is a very bad Clause. trial estates and would compel big employers of labour to provide ade­ Now, it was said just now that the quate housing for their workers. I say provisions of this Bill are to benefit 7281 25 MARCH 1966 7282 the workers in the plantation industry. of all that he surveys, so that nobody, The Minister in his travel up and no outsider, can walk into that estate; down the country to the various and some of them treat an estate as a estates must have known the some­ tiny little kingdom, where a manager times appalling conditions of housing can lord over all his workers parti­ in the various estates do exist, and I cularly. I wish to mention no names, do hope that officials of his Ministry Sir, but I am sure the Minister knows will put matters right as quickly as that in his own constituency there is an possible. I do know, for example, that estate where the management makes it in certian estates the ·· employees, very difficult for people to visit the despite the representations of the estate, and I am quite sure that things N.U.P.W., have not been able to get a are not right in that estate, particularly fair deal in the matter of housing. where housing is concerned. I commend Sir, I do not know why the Minister it for the attention of the Minister has sought to exempt Municipality, concerned. Local Council and Town Council from Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr the provisions of this Bill. He has Speaker, Sir, both the Honourable stated that, perhaps, he is going to Members for Bungsar and Batu have bring up a Bill of this nature to this said a lot about Government quarters. House. It is a well-known fact that in I am aware that some quarters Town Council, Municipalities and City provided by the Government to its Councils the housing in some cases is employees are not as satisfactory as not what it should be. If I remember one would wish them to be. Honour­ rightly, my colleague, the former able Members would recall that quite Member for Bungsar, had time and a large sum of money for the construc­ again railed against the Pesurohanjaya tion and improvement of Government /bu Kota, against the inadequacy of quarters is provided in the First housing for employees of the Pesuro­ Malaysia Plan. Government is also hanjaya lbu Kata. studying, as has just been said by my Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, I am very Honourable colleague, the Minister glad that the Minister has thought it for Housing and Local Government, fit now to require employers to provide a house ownership scheme for its nurseries, or creches, for the workers employees. But here again, Sir, the in the rubber estates. Presumably, I size of the effort is so large that the think this is a provision that is scheme has to be very carefully long overdue. I am also glad that in examined. this Bill an employer is obliged to Sir, the Honourable Member for provide plots of land to be used by Bungsar was very unnecessarily elo­ his workers for cultivation or grazing. quent on the position of Sabah and Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, I am very glad Sarawak. The Government's intention that there is such a provision in this is to extend this Act to the States of Bill and I do hope that he will see to Sabah and Sarawak, but the I.G.C. it that particularly in rubber estates, report requires considerable consulta­ the management should provide plots tion with the States before this can be of land for the workers for the purpose done. I can assure this House that of cultivation or grazing. when the appropriate time comes, this Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, in the will be done. Explanatory Note, paragraph 5. says, The Honourable Member for Bung­ "These provisions are dealing with sar mentioned Clause 8 (1). Sir, Clause the power of the Minister to make 8 (1) is generally meant to cater for regulations, power of the Commis­ improvements in types of buildings. It sioner to inspect, investigate and issue must be emphasised that employers summonses to prosecute and such must be assured of a reasonable time other procedural matters". I wish to on their investments. Only then will commend to the Minister that, in some they build decent houses. Sir, if as estates, the manager behaves as if he mentioned by the Honourable Mem­ were a British lord of a manor, Lord ber, there are houses which are not fit 7283 25 MARCH 1966 7284 for occupation, there are other Clauses, speech, the National Joint Labour to deal with this matter, and this Advisory Council has been consulted Clause, I must say, is by no means as on this Bill, and they have given their stupid as the Member for Bungsar blessings. makes it to be. He needs only to look at Clause 6 of the Bill to find out that Enche' C. v. Devan Nair: On a adequate powers are provided in the point of information, if I may. The Commissioner to require employers to Honourable Minister has referred to demolish or improve houses, which the Government's intention that the are unsatisfactory or unsafe or ideal is home ownership. Will the unhealthy. Honourable Minister concede as a matter of objective fact that house Sir, the Member for Batu suggested ownership or home ownership schemes that employers should be compelled will only affect workers in the middle to provide housing for their employees. income groups and it is not likely to I am afraid, he is certainly a few years affect workers in the lower income behind the thinking of workers today. groups, who are not likely to be able The view now is that tied housing is to participate in any kind of house generally a retrograde step for workers. ownership scheme? And to that extent, House ownership and the like are the Sir, I think he will concede that the slogans of today. Workers do not wish, I.L.O. will be misinformed, if he were if possible, to stay in tied housing. Sir, to tell the I.L.O. that we do have a the Government itself is thinking of house ownership scheme. We will have house ownership for its . . . . a house ownership scheme, Sir, only in so far as it affects the middle income Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, perhaps, group of workers. the Minister has misunderstood me, if I am talking in terms of housing, I am Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, the not talking in terms of tied housing. house ownership scheme is for all How about housing estate type for workers irrespective of middle class or workers closeby? It need not neces­ lower income group. sarily be 12-storey type housing. How about semi-detached houses with a Enche' C. v. Devan Nair: In that little plot of land in front and a little case, Sir, the Government must be plot of land behind. I was not thinking extremely communist and very, very in terms of what is prevelant now. very advanced in its housing programme. Enche' V. Manickavasagam: If he had waited a little bit I would have Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Quite finished the sentence, Sir. The Govern­ advanced! ment is itself thinking on the very terms or, on the very lines of the Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Honourable Member's thoughts on Sir. I am very glad that the Minister house ownership scheme. has stated that the Government has a scheme for all workers. Can the Sir, the Honourable Member· for Honourable Minister clarify a little Bungsar mentioned about we boasting further as to what schemes it has for at the I.L.O. on housing Bills, or that the lower grade of workers? As I have we have legislation on housing. Sir, pointed before to the Honourable the Alliance Government believes in Prime Minister out of a salary of $91! doing things for the betterment of a worker cannot keep the body and workers here and to suit conditions soul of himself and his family here. We are not here to do things to together, let alone own a house. please others at the expense of our workers. What we do here is for our The Prime Minister: Sir, as the own benefit. and I can assure the matter was referred to me, I might as Honourable Member that our Trade well get up and say a few words Unions here, have been consulted on because he has been putting that to me this Bill. As I said in my introductory from yesterday. As I said, it is not 7285 25 MARCH 1966 7286 expected that $91, which a worker could act on this particular clause. earns, would serve him and his family. This gives powers to the Minister to It is expected that he would have to exempt, and there may be certain do a little extra work to supplement employers who may not be in a posi­ his income, and that is what is being tion to, for example, provide land, done by most of the workers in this maybe in a mine. The Minister should country. I know myself, and also those have some powers for such exemption. who are working with me that not only they themselves get salaries but their Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Sir, what wives as well; and apart from that, I meant was employers who have the outside working hours-they finish at capacity to provide the prescribed one or at the most two o'clock in the minimum standards of housing. I am afternoon, I cannot quite remember not thinking of any particular mine. correctly-they go and do their work; Those who have the capacity to do so, and to be quite truthful, I think, on but who do not do so-what about the whole, in respect of their standard them. of living, they get more money than most of the clerks in Division III or Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Natu­ II-those who are in Division IV. sO, rally they would not be exempted. I do not think the Honourable Mem­ ber need worry very much about them, Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: I am very but he should get closer to them and glad of that assurance, Sir. find out what in actual fact they get. I can tell the Honourable Member Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, that they get more than he chooses to Sir, I would like to suggest to the believe. Honourable Minister that this Clause should be seriously considered and Question put and agreed to. definitions be given to cover whatever is intended because, if we look through Bill accordingly read a second time the whole of this Bill, this Clause of and committed to a Committee of the exemption in actual fact nullifies the whole House. complete intention. It makes, in fact, House immediately resolved itself the whole of the Bill a matter of into a Committee on the Bill. speculation, conjecture and dream. Sir, under the circumstances, I would Bill considered in Committee. like an assurance from the Honourable (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Minister that at some subsequent date this particular clause will be enlarged Clause 1 ordered to stand part of upon and the terms of exemption be the Bill. elaborated. Clauses 2 to 6- Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Chairman, Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Chair­ Sir, I myself just now have stated that man, Sir, I would not want to be this clause is an act of omission of thought of as being naughty. However, ill-doings by the management. I myself I am intrigued by Clause 3 which says will be very grateful if the Minister, that, "The Minister may by order like what th Member for Tanjong has exempt from all or any of the provi­ stated, at some future date will give us sions of this Act any employer or class more details of what he thinks of of employers or any building or class categories of employers who can be of buildings specified in the order." exempted. As is pointed out, this clause Sir, I would like to know what nullified the whole Bill. If you exempt employer or class of employers the the people from the provisions of this Minister expects to permit to build Bill, you are nullifying the whole houses below the prescribed minimum intention of this Bill. standards. Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, as Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, I I said, this clause is there just to give think this is a bit early to say how we the Minister some flexibility, and I have 7287 25 MARCH 1966 7288 assured this House that I definitely do of children and young persons now not intend to let this clause stand in provided for in this Bill are basically the way of progress. And I stand by similar to the corresponding provisions that, Sir. in the existing laws, except that a few important modifications have been Question put, and agreed to. made to keep in step with present day Clauses 2 to 6 inclusive ordered to conditions. stand part of the Bill. Clause 19 of the Bill defines a child Clauses 7 to 20 ordered to stand as a person under 14 years of age, part of the Bill. while a young person is defined as a person of between 14 and 16 years of First Schedule ordered to stand part age. This clause also permits a higher of the Bill. age to be prescribed for a child, if this Second Schedule ordered to stand should be considered desirable at a part of the Bill. later date. Bill reported without amendment: Clause 2 of the Bill stipulates that read the third time and passed. a child may engage only in light employment in a family undertaking, THE CHILDREN AND YOUNG or in a public entertainment under PERSONS EMPLOYMENT BILL specific licence by the Commissioner for Labour, or in approved work con­ Second Reading nected with his education or training. Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr Spea­ ker, Sir, I beg to move that the Bill Clause 2 also sets out that a young entitled "The Children and Young person, that is a person between 14 Persons Employment Bill, 1966," be and 16 years of age, may generally now read a second time. As stated in engage in any work, except under­ the Explanatory Statement attached to ground work or work connected with the Bill, the aim of this Bill is to electrical or moving machinery. Both consolidate and revise the law relating children and young persons might be to the employment of children and employed in public entertainment, but young persons. The present legal pro­ subject to such terms and conditions visions relating to this matter are as might be laid down by the Com­ contained in two separate laws : the missioner. Female young persons are Children and Young Persons Ordi­ excluded from employment in hotels, nance, 1947, and the Employment bars, restaurants and other similar Ordinance, 1955. Certain provisions of places, except where the establishment the law of these respective Ordinances is under the management or control of appear to be contradictory, and the her parent or guardian. This restriction opportunity has been taken in drafting is imposed to safeguard the morals of this Bill to reconcile this matter as well such young persons. as to provide for certain improvements Provision is also made in sub-clause and modifications to meet the changed (4) of Clause 2, and Clause 3 of the social and economic conditions of to­ Bill, for the Minister to permit children day. With the adoption of this Bill the or young persons to engage in any provisions relating to the employment other employment, not specified in the of children and young persons in the Bill, where such is not dangerous to Children and Young Persons Ordi­ their life, limb, health or morals. The nance of 1947, and Part X of the Minister may, for the same reasons. Employment Ordinance, 1955, would declare any employment permitted by be repealed, thus leaving only the the Bill, to be unsuitable for children Welfare Sections in the form of Ordi­ or young persons. nance and entrusting the responsibility to control the employment of children The present Children and Young and young person entirely with the Persons Ordinance of 1947 permits the officers of the Ministry of Labour. The employment of a child after the age conditions regulating the employment of 8, except in public entertainment, 7289 25 MARCH 1966 7290 where the minimum age is 12. This Malaya, but it is hoped to extend it to Bill, however, does not stipulate any the States of Sabah and Sarawak after minimum age for the employment of the necessary consultations with both a child, but merely specifies the limited the State Governments. This Bill has categories of employment that a child been drawn up in consultation with may engage in. This is felt to be a the National Joint Labour Advisory more flexible manner of providing for Council and consultations have also such matters, as experience in the past been held with the various Ministries has shown that in certain instances and statutory bodies concerned to children below the age of 12 may have ensure that its provisions do not run to be permitted especially in public counter to existing provisions in other entertainment. Also, while the existing laws. law permits the employment of a child above the age of 8 as a domestic Sir, I beg to move. servant, this Bill prohibits such employment below the age of 14. Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: Sir, I beg to second the motion. Clauses 4 to 6 of the Bill stipulate certain conditions, such as the number Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, of hours of work and periods of rest Sir, as usual, I see the Minister has for children and young persons in chosen to blunt any criticism by say­ employment. These provisions are ing, "This Bill has been drawn up in similar to the existing provisions in consultation with the employees"-and the law. so you should not grumble, you are not an employee, and you should not Clause 7 of the Bill deals with the grouse, the workers of this country procedure in respect of licensing of have approved of this Bifl and nobody children and young persons in public should grumble; and it should be entertainment. Honourable Members passed without any dissent. will note that all employment of children and young persons in public Mr Speaker, Sir, despite what the entertainment is subject to specific Minister has said, I am a little con­ licensing by the Commissioner for cerned over Clause 2, (3) (e) which Labour, and conditions may be im­ says: posed by the Commissioner on such employment, such as the number of performances in any day or periodic Provided that no female young person may be engaged in any employment in medical examination and so on. hotels, bars, restaurants, boarding houses or clubs unless such establishments are Clause 8 of the Bill empowers the under the management or control of her Minister to prescribe, on the report of parent or guardian." a Board of Inquiry, the minimum Sir, in regard to this question of being wages to be paid to children or young a parent or guardian, for a person to persons in any class of work, where assume the guardianship of any young this is considered necessary. person or a child is not too difficult in Clauses 9 to 18 of the Bill provide this country, particularly amongst the for the administrative machinery and Chinese-when you are of the same the making of Regulations for carrying surnames, "Tan" and "Tan", they out the provision and purposes of the assume, "So-and-so is my guardian."­ Bill. It would be noted that the first and as such it is very undesirable. The operative Regulation is included in the very provision of the clause there Third Schedule to the Bill, and not admits of the fact that it is undesirable promulgated separately, for the sake for a female per!;on to be employed in of convenience to persons who are such premises as hotels, bars, restau­ concerned with the provisions of the rants, boarding houses and clubs; and I would be much happier if there is a Bill. stricter interpretation of this loose The Bill is intended to apply, in the clause "under the control of her parent first instance, only to the States of or guardian". 7291 25 MARCH 1966 7292 I am also equally concerned over if he considers in expedient, direct an this: further down, it says: enquiry."; and in the Explanatory "Provided further that a female young statement we are told that, "Clause 8 pt:rson may be engaged in any employment empowers the Minister to prescribe in a club not managed by her parent or minimum wages to be paid to children guardian with the approval of the Commis­ sioner." or young persons in any class of work". I would be happier, if the Minister I do not know why this act of commis­ were to have a minimum wage for sion is allowed to come in. I would children and young persons-and even have thought that knowing some of for adults, because this clause merely th~ clubs that abound in this country­ says that if persons are aggrieved, then ! think the Koko Club has gone out they can come to the Minister and then of existence but there are other Clubs the Minister can set up an enquiry. such as Millionaires' Club and the Why wait for such instances to occur like-employment in such places before you institute an enquiry? Again, would be very unhealthy for a female I reiterate that the workers of this person; and as such I do not see why country will be happier if the Minister the Minister has thought it fit to have were, I do not say he should do it these two saving clauses as acts of now, to bring forth legislation at some c(Jmmission. future date to declare a minimum Sir, the whole Bill talks about health wage not only for children; for young or morals. And I am sure that the persons, but for adults as well parti­ Minister, if he wants to let these two cularly in the Government service. saving clauses to remain, should try and interpret them very strictly. As I Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr stated before, the question of guardian­ Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Member ship of a child or a young person, mentioned about Clause 2 (3) (e) on particularly amongst the Chinese, is "guardians" or "parents." I think these open to abuse. works have specific meanings, both in law and ordinary usage and I am sure I now come to Clause 5, where it that this clause will not cause much specifies the hours for a young child difficulty. and a young person. The Minister says that these existing clauses, but I am Sir, the Honourable Member also sure, and I myself have pointed out to mentioned about the N.J.L.A.C. I must him a few cases, where these existing say here both this Bill. with the Bill conditions have been abused. For that was just passed, as I said, was example, he talks about a child "to considered very carefully at the meet­ work between the hours of 8 o'clock in ing of the N.J.L.A.C., and the con­ the evening and 7 o'clock in the morn­ sultation of the N.J.L.A.C. was no ing; to work for more three consecutive mere formality. The Bill was drafted hours without a period of rest of at clause by clause by the Committee of least thirty minutes; to work for more the N.J.L.A.C. than six hours in a day" : I am sure the Minister knows that in many places With regard to the hours of work, these existing conditions are observed I know that this could be sometimes more in the breach, and I do hope that abused, but I think with this law now, his Ministry will see to it that the I can assure this House that my officers requirement of the law is strictly com­ will do their best to bring into book plied with. such off enders. Then. Mr Speaker, Sir, Clause 8 (1) With regard to the question of mini­ states "H representation is made to the mum wage. I think it is going to be Minister that the wages of children or quite difficult to prescribe a mini­ young persons in any class of work in mum wage for children, and that is any area are not reasonable having why the Committee thought that it was regard to the nature of the work and best to have this procedure, whereby conditions of employment obtaining in the Board would consider representa­ such class of work. the Minister may, tions and recommend to the Minister. 7293 25 MARCH 1966 7294 And with regard to the other sugges­ Enche' v. Manic.kavasagam: Tuan tion that we should have a minimum Yang di-Pertua, saya menyokong. · wage, I have already stated in this House that, where we find that in cer­ Question put, and agreed to. tain industries workers do not get a Bill accordingly read a second time fair wage and where workers are not and committed to a Committee of the adequately organised, we have the whole House. Wages Councils set up and they are in function. House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. Question put, and agreed to. Bill considered in Committee. Bill accordingly read a second time and committed to a Committee of the (Mr Speaker in the Chair) whole House. Clauses 1 to 5 inclusive ordered to House immediately resolved itself stand part of the Bill. into a Committee on the Bill. Bill reported without amendment : Bill considered in Committee. read the third time and passed. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) THE FAMILY PLANNING BILL Clauses 1 to 19 inclusive ordered to Second Reading stand part of the Bill. Enche' Mohamed Kbir Johari: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill First Schedule ordered to stand part intituled, "an Act to establish and of the Bill. incorporate the National Family Plan­ ning Board and to provide for matters Second Schedule ordered to stand incidental thereto," be read a second part of the Bill. time. Honourable Members will recall Third Schedule ordered to stand part that in considering the First Malaysia of the Bill. Plan, 1966-1970, in December last year, this House was advised that the Bill reported without amendment: Government would implement a posi­ read the third time and passed. tive policy of family planning, and that a National Family Planning Board THE NATIONAL REHABILITA­ would be established to carry out an TION AND CONSOLIDATION intensive family planning programme AUTHORITY (AMENDMENT) BILL on a national scale. Second Reading The Bill before this House is designed to achieve this objective and The Minister of Lands and Mines to pave the way for an early start in (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Ya'kub): launching the National Family Plan­ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mohon izin ning Programme. Family planning menchadangkan supaya sa-buah Rang 2 activities are not, by any means, new Undang yang bernama Rang to this country. The Family Planning Undang2 Lembaga Pemulehan dan Associations in the various parts of the Penyatuan Tanah Negara (Pindaan) States of Malaya affiliated to the 1966 di-bacha buat kali yang kedua. Federation of Family Planning 2 Associations have been active in this Oleh kerana sebab saya menge­ field for the past ten years. mukakan Rang Undang2 ini ada ter­ kandong atau pun di-terangkan dengan While these voluntary organisations jelas-nya dalam huraian pada hujong have been doing a wonderful job of Rang Undang2 ini, maka tidak-lah work, their personnel and financial perlu bagi saya hendak menambahkan resources are limited and hence the keterangan2 lagi dan saya sedia men­ coverage and effectiveness of their jawab apa2 sahaja soalan atau pan­ work have not been as widespread as dangan yang harus di-kemukakan oleh one would have desired. Large num­ Ahli2 Yang Berhormat. bers of people in both the urban and 7295 25 MARCH .1966 7296 rural areas of the country have now some extent clouded the impressive become conscious of the desirability strides achieved in economic and and the need to limit the size of their social development, the growth in pro­ families, in order to maintain better capital income is being impeded be­ educational and living standards. cause of the rapidly increasing popula­ tion. Whilst this rate of population Hitherto, the Government's part has growth is due partly to the declining been merely confined to the granting death rates, arising from the provision of yearly subvention to the Family of morn and better medical services, Planning Associations. The time has the birth rate itself is by any standard now come for the Government itself to high, This has brought into sharper make a realistic stand and take the focus the economic and financial lead in the field of family planning. implications of the rapid population An autonomous body will, therefore, growth. More schools, clinics, and have to be established with corpora­ houses have to be built and more job tion status to implement the Govern­ opportunities have to be created for ment's policy. I would like to add the new entrants to the labour force. here that a number of other develop­ ing countries, including such Muslim I am advised by experts that con­ countries like Turkey, United Arab siderable savings would accrue to the Republic and Pakistan, have, as a economy should the family planning matter of policy, incorporated family programme prove to be successful. planning as part of their countries' The savings can be expressed in terms development programmes. Honourable of the value of release consumption Members will, I am sure, agree that for each birth prevented. For each the basic resources for a nation's birth prevented, it is estimated that a development are its people, not just value of saving resulting from release people but healthy, educated, and consumption will be of the order of vigorous people, who should be pro­ $2,500. On the basis of a programme perly nurtured and cared for when starting this year with 50,000 women young, and it is generally accepted using Intra-Uterine Device, I.UC., that family planning will make a with the number increasing by 15,000 major contribution in this direction. per year to a total of 125,000 by 1971, the total birth prevented to range from ·Apart from health and other reasons, over 4,000 in 1966 to about 37,000 in there are also strong economic grounds 1971. for the country to implement a National Programme of Family Plan­ According to these calculations, the ning. Most of the developing countries value of savings accruing from release of the world, particularly in Asia and consumption would rise from $10 Latin America, are faced with the million per year in 1966 to $91 million problem of population explosion, and in 1971, giving a total savings of about this problem is very real because it $300 million during a six-year period, has been found that in most cases if the Family Planning Programme is population growth far outstrips econo­ successfully implemented. mic growth of the countries concerned. The case for limitation of size of Unless something concrete is done, family can thus be said to be self­ the world will have forever to contend evident. The people in this country with poverty, hunger, illiteracy and ill­ have enjoyed a comparatively high health amongst the majority of its standard of living. The ra'ayat have peoples. had the benefits of progress and As Honourable Members are aware, prosperity prevailing under our system Malaysia has one of the highest rates of parliamentary democracy. The of population growth in the world. If Government is determined to provide these rates of over 3 per cent is them with more and better things in sustained over a long period of time, life. Democracy cannot thrive in an the population can be expected to atmosphere of poverty, frustration and double in a span of 25 years. This empty slogans. Family planning will high rate of population growth has to go a long way in promoting, directly 7297 25 MARCH 1966 7298 or indirectly, sound economic develop­ endowments, grants and gifts to assist ment, and it will help to avoid a in implementing the family planning situation, whereby increase in income programme-that is in Clause 8 (2). and productivity are nullified by the rapid increase in sheer numbers. In this connection, I would like to express the appreciation of the Govern­ I am sure Honourable Members in ment to the Ford Foundation and other this House will wish me to express the donor agencies for their assistance Government's appreciation of the good towards this progra:qime. We look work carried out in the past by the forward to closer co-operation and Family Planning Associations in this collaboration with them in the future. country. Their activities over the past ten years have brought about an The National Family Planning enlightened attitude which is by and Board will be placed under my charge large favourable to family planning. in my capacity as Chairman of the With the establishment of the National Cabinet Sub-Committee on Family Family Planning Board, the activities Planning until such time, when it has of these voluntary organisations will begun to function effectively and be reinforced and further strengthened smoothly. The Honourable Prime for improving the health of mothers Minister said in a press statement that and children for the well-being of the I had been chosen to be the Chairman nation as a whole. The Board will co­ of this Committee in view of my ordinate family planning activities qualification as a father of thirteen throughout the country, and in carry­ children-I am not g~ing to dispute ing out this task, I am sure, that the this. I realise, however, that this means public would co-operate actively and extra work for me personally, but I give its maximum support to the take great pleasure in doing it, because National Family Planning Board. The I am convinced myself that in spite Government, through this Board, will of the various development projects. make available family planning ser­ both in economic and social fields that vices and facilities to all who wish to the Government has been doing and take advantage of them on a purely will no doubt continue to do, family voluntary basis. nlanning will play an important part in bringing about greater happiness Mr Speaker, Sir, I would now like for a greater number of people of our to explain some of the salient features country and, indeed, of the whole of the Bill. The National Family world in the future. Planning Board will consist of a Chairman to be appointed by His Sir, I beg to move. Majesty the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, a Director who will be the chief execu­ Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad: Tuan tive officer of the Board, not more than Yang di-Pertua, saya menyokong Rang ten members, each of whom shall be Undang2 Peranchang Keluarga. Sa­ a representative of interested ministries telah saya mendengar penerangan2 and departments concerned, and not yang di-berikan oleh Yang Berhormat more than ten other members to be Menteri Pelajaran, saya menguchapkan appointed from among members of the tahniah kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat public and public organisations. This itu dengan keperchayaan Kerajaan is set out in Clause 4. meletakkan dia jadi Pengerusi dalam ranchangan ini. Saya chuma hendak The operations of the Board will be menarek perhatian kapada melaksana­ financed by way of Government grant. kan ranchangan ini ia-itu supaya The Board will also be authorised to dapat di-fikirkan pandangan2 yang receive financial contributions, medical saya hendak berikan ini, sebab kita supplies and other forms of assistance berdasarkan negeri kita yang baharu from international agencies, private merdeka. Saya hendak ranchangan ini foundations and from donor countries. di-jalankan hanya bagi pendudok Provision has accordingly been made dalam bandar, di-tanggohkan pen­ for the Board to accept voluntary dudok luar bandar, su-kurang2-nya 5 7299 25 MARCH 1966 7300 tahun sa-telah selesai Ranchangan Kalau orang China bekerja kahwin, Malaysia yang Pertama. orang Melayu datang; orang Melayu buat kerja kahwin, orang China Dengan izin, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, datang. saya akan berikan hujah2 atas shor saya ini. Yang pertama dalam Ran­ Jadi, saya fikir perpaduan memben­ changan Lima Tahun yang Kedua tok masharakat jenerasi daripada luar dan Ranchangan Malaysia yang Per­ bandar ini-lah satu perkara yang kita tama ini Kerajaan telah mengeluarkan sangat harapkan kapada negara ini. wang bermillion ringgit dengan men­ Maka rugi-lah kita kalau Peranchangan dirikan rumah bidan, pusat2 kesihatan Keluarga ini kita lancharkan di-luar2 dan menghantar pekerja2 di-tempat bandar tidak dapat bagaimana yang itu. Kira-nya ranchangan ini di­ saya katakan. Sa-kian-lah sahaja, Tuan jalankan, maka kurang-lah ibu2 yang Yang di-Pertua, Terima kaseh. hamil, anak banyak kurang, tatkala itu saya fikir lebeh baik di-biarkan pen­ Enche' Hussein bin To' Muda dudok luar bandar itu berjalan bagai­ Hassan (Raub): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, mana keadaan sekarang. saya hendak berchakap chuma sadikit. Saya sokong di-atas Rang Undangl Yang kedua, kalau Kerajaan hendak yang di-bentangkan oleh Yang Ber­ meneruskan-Kerajaan Perikatan yang hormat Menteri Pelajaran tadi. Saya ada sekarang ini-maka jenerasi­ dapati ada berlainan sadikit daripada keturunan-pendudok luar bandar Ahli daripada Muar Utara. Yang hendak-lah di-ramaikan, kerana me­ Amat Berhormat Menteri Pembangu­ reka itu-lah penyokong kuat Kerajaan nan Negara dan Luar Bandar sentiasa Perikatan. Kita tidak boleh meng­ pergi merata tempat merayu ra'ayat harapkan penyokong kuat daripada meninggikan taraf hidup dengan pendudok dalam bandar. sokongan daripada Kerajaan. Maka Yang ketiga, di-luar bandar juga patut-lah Ranchangan Family Plan­ tidak banyak yang menganggor, bah­ ning ini di-lancharkan pada masa ini supaya senang-lah orang2 · di-luar kan dengan ada-nya berbagai ran­ 2 changan Kerajaan sekarang: rancha­ bandar menumpukan segala usaha - ngan pertanian, ranchangan pemiagaan, nya dan menyahut seruan Kerajaan ranchangan perikanan, ranchangan hendak meninggikan taraf hidup temakan, ranchangan nelayan dan mereka itu, tetapi sa-lepas daripada lain2 di-kampong dan luas-nya pula 10 tahun atau pun apabila kita fikirkan kehidupan mata pencharian tanah di-kampong2, maka pemuda di­ 2 luar bandar menumpukan usaha mem­ orang di-luar bandar sudah tinggi beri kerjasama kapada Kerajaan. atau pun lumayan sadikit, kita patut­ Dengan sebab itu ekonomi di-luar Iah timbangkan Undang2 ini balek, bandar menurut himmah saya, Tuan sama ada kita hendak tarek balek-kah Yang di-Pertua, tidak akan meleset, atau pun di-longgarkan sadikit. Saya bahkan bertambah maju. juga tertarek hati kapada uchapan Yang Berhormat Menteri yang mem­ Yang keempat, masharakat luar bawa Rang Undang2 ini tadi di-dalam bandar, sama ada orang China, orang Clause 4, ia-itu Pengerusi-nya ia-lah Melayu, orang India ada-lah perpa­ dia sendiri, kerana oleh sebab dia ada duan yang saling-mengerti, dan saya memileki 13 orang anak. Di-dalam nampak muhibbah mereka ada ber­ Clause 4 itu, 4 (c) "Not more than 10 lainan daripada masharakat dan members to be appointed by the ra'ayat2 dalam bandar daripada me­ Minister from among members of the reka _ itu-lah, daripada keturunan public drawn from field of Commerce, mereka itu-lah yang kita harap pada Labour, Education, Social Services" masa akan datang akan membentok and so on. Saya chadangkan kapada satu bangsa Malaysia yang baharu Yang Berhormat yang menjadi Penge­ yang berchorak betul2 Malaysia. Kita rusi Peranchang Keluarga ini, ahli2 nampak masharakat orang2 China dan daripada 10 orang itu hendak-lah di­ orang2 Melayu di-kampong2 masing2 lantek daripada orang2 yang banyak menghormati kebudayaan masing2• anak. Saya shorkan kapada Yang 7301 25 MARCH 1966 7302 Berhormat Menteri itu melantek orang MOTION yang ta' kurang anak-nya 8, baharu boleh dudok jadi Jawatan-kuasa itu. REPORT BY THE ELECTION Itu-lah saya shorkan kapada Menteri COMMISSION TO THE Pelajaran oleh sebab, dia ada 13 PRIME MINISTER, orang anak bagi-lah peluang orang MALAYSIA lain yang ada banyak anak dudok sa­ bagai Pengerusi, terima kaseh. (Delimitation of Constituencies (Sabah) Order, 1966) Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: Tuan The Deputy Prime Minister (Ton Haji Speaker, saya uchapkan terima kaseh Abdul Razak): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg di-atas sokongan daripada Ahli Yang to move: Berhormat yang berchakap tadi. That this House resolves that in accor­ Chuma saya hendak terangkan di-sini dance with the powers vested in it by virtue berkenaan dengan shor daripada Ahli of sub-section (7) of Section 96 of the Yang Berhormat daripada Muar Utara Malaysia Act, the draft Delimitation of Constituencies (Sabah) Order, 1966, which minta kita tumpukan banyak tenaga has been laid before the House as required kita sa-kurang2-nya dalam lima tahun by sub-section (6) of Section 96 of the yang akan datang berkenaan dengan aforesaid Act for giving effect without modi­ Peranchang Family ini kapada kawasan fications as to the recommendations con­ 2 tained in the Report by the Election dalam bandar, kerana sebab saperti Commission to the Prime Minister, Malaysia, mana yang di-sebutkan oleh-nya. Saya containing their recommendations on the suka menerangkan di-sini bukan-lah Delimitation of Parliamentary and State chadangan pehak Kerajaan atau pun Constituencies in the State of Sabah be pehak Lembaga yang akan di-dirikan approved. ini untok menahan langsong peranakan Now, Sir, following a request made itu, chuma apa yang kita suroh ia-lah by the Sabah State Government that gunakan "ration". Jadi bukan kita action should be initiated towards the suroh "stop" langsong, chuma kita preparation for the holding of direct minta "slow" sahaja. Itu patut-lah di­ election to the State Legislative fahamkan baik2 oleh Ahli Yang Assembly of Sabah, the Federal Berhormat itu. Government on the 24th of August, Berkenaan dengan chadangan dari­ 1965, notified the Election Commission pada Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada to proceed with the delimitation of Raub, saya akan ambil ingatan dan Parliamentary and State Constituencies kita akan pileh-lah orang yang berjasa in the State of Sabah within the period banyak untok menjadi ahli dalam 15th January, 1965, to 15th December, lembaga ini. Terima kaseh. 1965, and within such period to submit to the Prime Minister a report Question put, and agreed to. showing: Bill accordingly read a second time (a) the constituencies into which they recommend the State should be divided and committed to a Committee of the in order to give effect to the principles whole House. set out in Section 2 of the Thirteenth Schedule to the Constitution, and House immediately resolved itself (b) the names by which they recommend into a Committee on the Bill. that these constituencies should be Bill considered in Committee. known. Now, the Election Commission (Mr Speaker in the Chair) finalised their delimitation proposal on the 22nd October, 1965. According to Clauses 1 to 14 inclusive ordered to sub-section (4) of Section 96 of the stand part of the Bill. Malaysia Act, it was incumbent upon Schedule ordered to stand part of the Election Commission, before the Bill. making their report to the Prime Minister, to publish in the Gazette and Bill reported without amendment: in at least one newspaper circulating read the third time and passed. in the State of Sabah and in any other 7303 25 MARCH 1966 7304 manner they think necessary to secure shows the boundary of Parliamentary that it may become generally known and State Constituencies. among persons interested, a notice Now, according to Section 91 (1) stating: of the. Malaysia Act, the constituencies (a) the effect of their proposed recom­ in each of the Borneo States for the mendations, and that a copy of those first election to the House of Repre­ recommendations is \}pen to inspection at the specified place in each of the sentatives or the State Legislative proposed constituency, and Assembly after the end of the period (b) that representation with respect to the of indirect election shall be delimited proposed recommendations may be by Order of the Yang di-Pertuan made to the Commission within one Agong. Now, the draft of this Order month after the publication of the notice, and the Commission shall take is also required by Section 96 (6) of into consideration any representation the Malaysia Act to be laid before the duly made in accordance with any House for the purpose of giving effect such notice. to the recommendations contained in I would like, Sir, to inform the the Report by the Election Commis­ House that the Election Commission sion, and such Order has also been had already complied with these laid before this House as Command statutory requirements. Their proposed Paper No. 11 of 1966. recommendations were made known to Therefore, Sir, I beg to move. the public in Sabah, as mentioned in paragraph 10 of the Report, and on Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari: Sir, 7th December, 1965, the Election I beg to second the motion. Commission submitted their report to Question put, and agreed to. the Prime Minister, as required by Resolved, sub-section (2) of Section 96 of the That this House resolves that in accor­ Malaysia Act. The Report has been dance with the powers vested in it by virtue laid in this House as Command Paper of sub-section (7) of Section 96 of the No. 10 of 1966. Malaysia Act, the draft Delimitation of Constituencies (Sabah) Order, 1966, which Now, Sir, the Report itself is in has been laid before the House as required by sub-section (6) of Section 96 of the three parts. Part I contains the back­ aforesaid Act for giving effect without modi­ ground, the principles for delimitation fications to the recommendations con­ and recommendations for delimitation; tained in the Report by the Election Part II contains the names of the Commission to the Prime Minister, Malaysia, containing their recommendations on the Parliamentary Constituencies into Delimitation of Parliamentary and State which the State of Sabah has been Constituencies in the State of Sabah be divided; and Part III contains the approved. names of the State Constituencies into which the State of Sabah has been Mr Speaker: The House is now divided. A map folder at the end of adjourned sine die. the Report containing a map of Sabah Adjourned at 8.40 p.m.