Lok Sabha Debates

Monday, August 14, 1989 Eighth Series1R. 20 Sravana 23, 1911 (Saka)

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(Eighth Series, Vol. Lll, Fourteenth Session, 1989/1911 (Saka) No. 20, Monday, August 14, 1989/Sravana 23, 1911 (Saka)

C o l u m n s

Papers Laid on the Table 8-10

Working Journalists and other Newspaper Employees (Conditions of 10 Service) and Miscellaneous Provisions (Amendment) Bill—Introduced

Salary, Allowances and Pension of Members of Parliament 10 (Amendment) Bill —Introduced

National Waterway (Quilon-Kottapuram Stretch of West Coast Canal 11-12 and Champakara and Udyogmandal Canals) Bill— Introduced

Matters Under Rule 377 12-16

(i) Demand for connecting Sriperumbudur with railway lines in the 12-13 Eighth Plan

Shrirpati M. Chandrasekhar

(ii) Demand for declaring Sorsan in Kota district of Rajasthan, a 13-14 game sanctuary

Shri Jujhar Singh

(iii) Demand for constructing overbridges over National Highway 14 No. 34 near railway level crossings at Dalkola railway station and Kishanganj

Dr. Golam Yazdani

(iv) Demand for acceptance of recommendations of Mandal 15-16 Commission on backward classes and inclusion of certain castes/tribes in the list of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes

Prof. Narain Chand Parashar

High Court and Supreme Court Judges (Conditions of Service) 16-55 Amendment Bill

Motion to cons Jer (H)

C o l u m n s

Shri Y.S. Mahajan 16-19

Shri Virdhi Chander Jsin 19-22

Shri Haroobhai Mehta 22-25

Dr. G.S. Rajhans 25-28

Shri K.D. Suftanpuri 28-30

Shri Yogeshwar Prasad Yogesh 31 -33

Shri Ram Bhagat Paswan 33-35

Shri Syed Shahabuddin 35-39

Shri Somnath Rath 39-42

Shri B. Shankaranand 43-53

Clauses 2 to 7 and 1 54-55

Motion to Pass 55

Shri B. Shankaranand

Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of 55-114 Atrocities) Bill

Motion to consider

Dr. Rajendra Kumari Bapai 56-64

Shri Ram Ratan Ram 65-72

Shri Ganga Ram 72-80

Shri Harish Rawat 81-83

Shri Bapulai Malviya 83-87

Shri Syed Shahabuddin 87-92

Shri Harihar Soren 93-96

Shri Digvijaya Singh 96-102 (iii)

C o l u m n s

Shri P.M. Sayeed 102-104

Shrimati Basavarajeswari 104-109

Shri Manikrao Hodtya Gavit 109-113

Shri Janak Raj Gupta 113-114

Discussion under Rule 193 114-155

Fourth, Fifth and Sixth interim reports and final report of Kudal Commission of Inquiry set up to enquire into the affairs of Gandhi Peace Foundation and connected organisations

Shri T. Basheer 114-128

Shri Banwari Lai Purohit 128-134

Shri Syed Shahabuddin 134-144

Shri Brajamohan Mohanty 144-152

Shri Aziz Qureshi 152-155

Employees' State Insurance (Amendment) Bill 156-176 As passed by Rajya Sabha

Motion to consider

Shri Bindeshwari Dubey 156-160

Shri Somnath Rath 160-161

Shri Chintamani Jena 161-162

Shri Aziz Oureshi 162-163

Shri S. Krishna Kumar 163-169

Clauses 2 to 47 and 1 174-175

Motion to Pass

Shri Bindeshwari Dubey 169-173 LOK SABHA DEBATES

LOK SABHA SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan- ganj): There is also a disturbing report about the alleged massacre of Tamil civilians in early August by IPKF in Jaffna. There any Monday, August 14, 1989/Sravana 23, many press reports about that. We have had 1911 (Saka) no occasion to discuss the Sri Lanka situation.

SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU (Gobichetti- The Lok Sabha met at five minutes past palayam): We are going to discuss the Eleven of the Clock matter this week.

[MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] MR. SPEAKER: Yes. We are going to discuss. [English] SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: I would DR. G.S. RAJHANS (Jhanjharpur): A like that to be discussed. This is a grave large numberof people are being massacred matter affecting the good name of India and in Assam. This is a very serious matter and India’s Armed Forces, and I think that this the Home Minister should come out with a matter should be clarified by the Govern- statement. ment.

MR. SPEAKER: This is Question Hour. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnani): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have given an Adjourn- DR. G.S. RAJHANS: There is no Ques- ment Motion about deportations from Kerala tion Hour today. in an unjustified manner resulting in even loss of lives on borders. MR. SPEAKER: I will convey your feelings. You can give me a motion for the MR. SPEAKER: The problem is that I suspension of Question Hour if you want, or have to find out what you mean by deporta- after Question Hour we can take it up. tion.

SEVERAL HON. MEMBER: There is no Question Hour today. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: People have been whisked away by the police and MR. SPEAKER: No Question Hour? taken to the borders and pushed across the borders. They have been fired upon by the [ Translation] border force.

We have been used to the Question MR. SPEAKER: Which border? hour. SHRI. G.M. BANATWALLA: Indo-Paki- [English] stan border.

MR. SPEAKER: One by one. MR. SPEAKER: I have to find out. 3 AUGUST 14,1009 4

SHRIG.M. BANATWALLA: People from MR. SPEAKER: Not allowed. Kerala have been whisked away in an unjustified manner. People have lost their lives on SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: I am sorry, the border of India and Pakistan. I w il be constrained to waJk out of the House.

MR. SPEAKER: I have to find out. MR. SPEAKER: As you S(e.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: Since long (Interruptions)* my notices under Rule 377 have been pending. MR. SPEAKER: Nobody is allowed to make a statement lice that and what I have MR. SPEAKER: It came to my notice tried to do is according to rules. I always do only this morning and immediately I took it and I have asked for the information. action. (Interruptions)* SHRIG.M. BANATWALLA: I have given an Adjournment Motion also. You allow my R is all right I cannot strangulate the Adjournment Motion. rules. For me aH are equal.

MR. SPEAKER: I will have to find out (Interruptions)* Mr. Banatwalla, I have already written. MR. SPEAKER: Not allowed. Without SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: There are rhyme or reason if you w ait out I cannot stop hardly two working days left now. My notice you. under Rule 377 was pending for long. Today I was constrained to given an Adjournment [At this stage, Shri G.M. Banatwalla left Motion. the House\

MR. SPEAKER: You only speak your- SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS (Tezpur): A self; you do not listen. Notices under 377 are grave situation has arisen in one part of my balloted. It is not done in any other manner. constituency i.e. Gohpur area. Everybody knows about it because all the newspapers SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: Then you have carried the news on the front page for allow my Adjournment Motion. the last three, four days. About 200 people have died by now. The Government of As- MR. SPEAKER: That is what I said. H sam stated in the beginning that only five had came to my notice this morning and I have died. But 99 dead bodies have been discov- already asked for information. I have already ered by the Arunachal Police... written. MR. SPEAKER: You give some notice SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: Do not so that I can just put it to the Government to strangulate my voice Ifce that, Sir. make some statement.

MR. SPEAKER: You are strangulating SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS: I shall make only the rules. I cannot go beyond the rules. a few points. I shaR take only five minutes...

Now, that is enough. You allow others to MR. SPEAKER: There are a few things. speak. Subjects tike communal trouble, atrocities on women and Harijans and all these things, (Interruptions)* we discuss here in Parliament But certain

*Not recorded. 5 SRAVANA 23,1911 (SAKA) 6 things are State subjects. When you say that also sent a high powered delegation to probe this is something which concerns the Centre into the matter. also, then you tell about it. SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: They SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: It is an should be directed to make a statement inter-State subject. These are atrocities on today. an unparalleled scale. SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS: Let the Govern- MR. SPEAKER: That is the trouble his ment make a statement and on that we will not very dear. I want to be sure that we are have a discussion in the House. not transgressing the rules. DR. G.S. RAJHANS (Jhanjharpur): SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS: For three rea- is trying to create confusion among the sons it is no longer a State subject. Firstly, it Armed Forces. It ts a very serious matter. We is tending to take a communal turn. Sec- must condemn it. ondly, a large number of tribals have been massacred. Thirdly, it is going to affect the MR. SPEAKER: Chief Minister’s name inter-State relations between the two States. will not go on record. Because of these three main reasons it is no longer a State subject. It is a subject for the [Translation] Central Government to take note of. A large number of deaths have taken place— about SHRI HARISH RAWAT (Almora): Mr. 200 according to my report. A large number Speaker, the speeches delivered by any of houses have been burnt. Thousands of Chief Minister or by the Prime Minister on the people have fled their homes. 26th January and 15th August are very important but if a Chief Minister wants to SHRI SYED SHAHABUDOIN: 10,000 misuse it and wants to exploit and instigate people have fled their homes... (Interrup- the armed forces, it is prejudidal to the tions) security of the country.

SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS: The administra- [English] tion for the first four days was non-existent. The top officials ran away from the scene. MR. SPEAKER: I do not know the facts. Local police took sides. Do not talk without facts.

MR. SPEAKER: Let the Government [ Translation] make a statement on it. DR. G.S. RAJHANS: It is true. It is a SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS: I am making the serious matter. point. The saddest part of it, the most serious part of ft is that the local Minister belongs to [English] a tribal community. There are two important tribes in that are#—Bodo and Mishing. The SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS: I would like to Local Minister belongs to the Mishing com- know from Mr. Bhagat or Mr. Chidambaram munity. He has organised the Mishing and whether the Government is coming forth other non-Bodos against the Bodos. with a statement on this Gohpur issue.

MR. SPEAKER: Let the Government THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE come out with some statement and then you MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL, PUBLIC discuss it. You have brought it to the notice GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN- of the Government. The Government has ISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF ‘ Not recorded 7 AUGUST 14, 1989 Papers Laid 8

HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHIDAMBA- Government provides sufficient assistance, RAM) : I understand that during the course of Rajasthan Government alone cannot cope the day, after getting your permission, the up with the situation. Therefore, we made a Home Minister will make a statement. request for the central assistance.

[ Translation] MR. SPEAKER: It is correct, there is a great problem of drinking water. The water SHRI PRATAP BHANU SHARMA level of wells is also going down in absence (Vidisha): Mr. Speaker, Sir, last Friday, of rains. I have also returned from these when we had raised a point that there is a areas only yesterday. controversy on the interview given by the member of a Janata Dal on a Channel of SHRI HARISH RAW AT: It is already Third World Broadcasting Corporation in being discussed in the House. America and a prediction had been made by a Pakistani astrologer regarding the assas- MR. SPEAKER: I have listened to you. sination of our Prime Minister, you had given the assurance that appropriate security ar- [English] rangements would be made and hon. Prime Minister would be directed to make a state- SHRI UTTAM RATHOD (Hingoli): Sir, I ment in this regard. Secondly, you had also have given a notice for Half-an-Hour discus- stated that notice could be given under a sion regarding the release of cotton export rule. I would like to bring it to your kind notice quota by CCI in favour of private traders. So that I have already given a notice under rule far it has not been taken up. 193. Now, what is your direction in this regard. Will you allow a discussion on it or MR. SPEAKER: We shall see. direct the Home Minister to make a statement on it or to get it investigated?

MR. SPEAKER: I have taken immedi- 11.17 hrs. ate action on your notice. PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE [English] [English] I have written for information to the Minister in-charge and then I will decide Notification under All India Services upon it. Act and Border Security Force (Senior- ity, Promotions and Superannuation of [ Translation] Offices) Amendment Rules, 1989

SHRI VIRDHI CHANDRA JAIN THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (Barmer): Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL, PUBLIC visited my constituency i.e. Barmer and Jais- GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN- almer. The Chief Minister of Rajasthan, Shri ISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF Shiv Charan Mathur was also with me. A HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHIDAMBA- serious situation has developed in the west- RAM): I beg to lay on the Table— ern desert area ol Rajasthan because of the acute shortage of drinking water. This situ- (1) A copy each of the following No fixation ation has arisen because of the failure of (Hindi and English versions) under sub- monsoon and crops are also getting de- section (2) of section 3 of the All India stroyed which is a matter of great concern. Services Act, 1951:— Our Chief Minister has sent a representation to the Minister of Agriculture in this regard, (i) The Indian Administrative Serv- intimating him that unless and until Central ice (Probation) Amendment 9 Papers Laid SRAVANA 23,1911 (SAKA) Working Journalists Bill 10

Rules, 1989 published in Notifi- the National Federation of In- cation No. 638 (E) in Gazette of dustrial Cooperatives Limited, India dated the 23rd June, 1989. New Delhi, for the year 1986-87 together with Acfiounts. (ii) The Indian Police Service (Pro- bation) Amendment Rules, 1989 (ii) A copy of the Rev ew (Hindi and published in Notification No. English versions) by the Govern- G.S.R. 639 (E) in Gazette of India ment on the working of the Na- dated the 23rd June, 1989. tional Federation of Industrial Cooperatives Limited, New Delhi, (iii) The All India Services (Study for the year 1986-87. Leave) Amendment Regulations, 1989 published in Notification No. (2) A statement (Hindi and English ver- G.S.R. 658 (E) in Gazette of India sions) showing reasons for delay in dated the 30th June, 1989. laying the papers mentioned at (1) above. [Placed in Library. See No. LT— (iv) The Indian Administrative Serv- 8267/89] ice (Appointment by Promotion) Third Amendment Regulations, 1989 published in Notification No. G.S.R. 729 (E) in Gazetteof India 11.18 hrs. dated the 1st August, 1989. [Placed in Library. See No. LT— WORKING JOURNALISTS AND OTHER 8265/89] NEWSPAPER EMPLOYEES (CONDI- TIONS OF SERVICE) AND MISCELLA- (2) A copy of the Border Security Force NEOUS PROVISIONS (AMENDMENT) (Seniority, Promotion and Superannua- BILL* tion of Off icers) Amendment Rules, 1989 (Hindi and English versions) published [English] in Notification No. G.S.R. 416 (E) in Gazette of India dated the 17th June, THE MINISTER OF LABOUR (SHRI 1989, under sub-section (3) of section BINDESHWARIDUBEY): Sir, I beg to move 141 of the Border Security Act, 1968. for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend [Placed in Library. See No. LT—8266/ the Working Journalists and other Newspa- 89] per Employees (Conditions of Service) and Miscellaneous Provisions Act, 1955.

Annual Report and Review on National MR. SPEAKER: The question is: Federation of Industrial Cooperatives Ltd., New Delhi and a statement re. “That leave be granted to introduce a delay in laying these papers Bill further to amend the Working Jour- nalists and other Newspaper Employ- ees (Conditions of Service) and Mis- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE cellaneous Provisions Act, 1955.” DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL DEVEL- OPMENT IN THE MINISTRY OF INDUS- The motion was adopted TRY (SHRI M. ARUNACHALAM): I beg to lay on the Table— SHRI BINDESHWARI DUBEY: Sir, I introduce the Bill. (1) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of

‘ Published in Gazette of India Extraordinary, Part II, Section 2, dated 14-8-1989. 11 National Waterway BUI AlXSllST 14,1969 Matters under Rub 377 12

11.18 1/2 hrs. MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

SALARY. ALLOWANCES AND PENSION T h at leave be granted to introduce a OF MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT Bill to provide for the declaration of the (AMENDMENT) BILL* Quilon-Kottapuram stretch of West Coast Canal and Champakara and [English] Udyogmandal Canals to be a national waterway and also to provide for the THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY regulation and development of thp said AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMA- stretch and the Canals for purposes of TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI H.K.L shipping and navigation on the said BHAGAT): Sir, I beg to move for leaveto waterway and for matters connected introduce a Bill further to amend the Salary, therewith or incidental thereto.” Allowances and Pension of Members of Parliament Act, 1954. The motion was adopted

MR. SPEAKER: The question is: SHRI RAJESH PILOT: Sir, I introduce the Bill. "That leave be granted to introduce a Bill further to amend the Salary, Allow- ances and Pension of Members of Parliament Act, 1954." 11.20 hrs.

The motion was adopted MATTERS UNDER RULE 377

SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT: Sir, I introduce [English] the Bill. (I) Demand for connecting Srlpe- rumbudur with railway lines In the Eighth Plan 11.19 hr*. SHRIMATI M. CHANDRASEKHAR NATIONAL WATERWAY (QUILON- (Sriperumbudur): Sir, Sriperumbudur is the KOTTAPURAM STRETCH OF WEST pilgrim Centre, being the birth-place of Saint COAST CANAL AND CHAMPAKARA Ramanuja who was a staunch preacher of AND UDYOGMANDAL CANALS) BILL* Vaishnavism. There is a famous temple of Saint Ramanuja, built some hundreds of [English] years back. Many people from various parts visit the town to have ‘darshan’ of Saint THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE Ramanuja deity. MINISTRY OF SURFACE TRANSPORT (SHRI RAJESH PILOT): Sir, I beg to move Sir, at present the town is connected for leave to introduce a*6ill to provide for the with ChingtepUTDistrictonly by one road. No declaration of the Quilon-Kottapuram stretch other mode of transportation is available, tt is of West Coast Canal and Champakara and felt that this famous pilgrim town should have Udyogmandal Canals to be a national water- Railway line with the neighbouring talukas way and also to provide for the regulation as also the whole of Tamil Nadu. Sriperum- and development of the said stretch and the budur.can be connected with Tiruvallur and Canals for purposes of shipping and naviga- then from Sripurumbudur the railway line tion on the said waterway and for matters can be extended to connected therewith or incidental thereto. Kancheepuram-Vandavasi-Tindivanam.

‘ Published in Gazette of India Extraordinary, Part II, Section 2, dated 14-8-1989. 13 M *m w under SRAVANA 23,1911 (SAKA) R ub 377 14

This railway fine con nod ing these places will With the decision of Government of Rajast- be economically viable. As those talukas are han to enstablish a Fertiliser Fadory close to backward, introduction of raHway system Sorsan, R b feared that mining adivities will there wiH go a bng way in removing their start in the Sorsan plateau disturbing and backwardness. even destroying the endangered species of Great Indian Bustard. I understand that there is a proposal for extending the raikmty facility from Viliival- In view of the urgency, I will request kam to Anna Nagar In Madras and then to Hon’bJe Minister of Environment and For- Tambaram. This railway link facility can abo ests, Government of India to take early steps be extended to Sriperumbudur via Poona- to declare Sorsan as a Game Sanduary. maBee. From Avadi abo, the railway line can be extended to Sriperumbudur via Poona* OR) Demand for Constructing malee. I request the Ralway Minister to overbridges over National kindly look Into thb and include construction ttighway No. 34 near railway of this new railway Kne connecting Sriperum- level croeslngs at Dalkola rail- budur In the 8th Plan. way station and Klshanganj

00 Demand for declaring Soraan DR. GOLAM YAZDANI (Raiganj): IIke In Kota district of Rajasthan a to draw attention of the Hon. Minister for gone sanctuary Railway to the following:—

SHRI JUJHAR SINGH (Jhalawar): Dakota in the distrid of West Dinqjpur in Forest and w9d life have suffered a set back West Bengal b a Railway Station on N.F. since independence. Lakhs of hectares of Railway. The level crossing near the station rich forest areas and thousands of animats of b closed many times at day and night as a resuft of which traffic jam occurs on National different spedes have been destroyed in the Highway No. 34 on both sides of the cross- last four decades to the extent that some of ing. National Highway No. 34 is the only road the animal and bird species have been left from Calcutta to Stiiguri and hence frequent only in small pockets. traffic jams due to this level crossing are very much undesirable. To solve the problem, a Great Indian Bustard is an Indian bird proposal of an overbridge near the level whose population has been reduced to less crossing has already been sandioned and than 500 birds and it has been dedared an lands for the bye-pass abo acquired and endangered species by Government of In- even compensation money has been paid to dia. One of the most important habitats of the cultivators, but still the work for con- Great Indian Bustard at present b around struding the overbridge has not been started. vSage Sorsan in District Kota of Rajasthan, National Highway No. 34 abo passes ft has been admitted by the wild-life lovers across the RaHway level crossing at Kbhan- and environmentalists that now Great Indian ganj and similar traffic jams occur. So an Bustard could be spotted only at Sorsan. overbridge should be soon const ruded near thb crossing too. It b unfortunate that inspite of the keen Interest of the local population to protect the New Jalpaiguri Station b far away from bird and other endangered spedes of wild SBiguri Town. The road to the Station from Siliguri has to cross a Railway level crossing We Nke the Black Buck and the Chinkaras, where traffic jam occurs and hence, some- the Government of Rajasthan is shying away way has to be found out to solve thb prob- to declare Sorsan as a Game Sanctuary. lem. 15 Matters under Rule 377 AUGUST 14,1989 High Court & Supreme 16 Court Judges (Cond. of Service) Arndt. Bill (Iv) Demand for acceptance of uled Tribes and Castes, will generate new recommendation of Mandal hope and confidence among these weaker Commission on Backward sections of society. Classes and Inclusion of certain castes/tribes in the list of Scheduled Castes and Sched- uled Tribes THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS PROF. NARAIN CHAND PARASHAR AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE DE- (Hamirpur): The Union Government has PARTMENTOF CHEMICALS AND PETRO- done a lot for the amelioration of Weaker CHEMICALS IN THE MINISTRY OF IN- Sections of the society notably Scheduled DUSTRY (SHRI P. NAMGYAL): Sir, we Castes/Tribes and Minorities and has would like to postpone Item No. 7 and take launched many programmes for the benefit up item No. 8 in place of Item No. 7 in view of those living below the poverty line. How- of our having to finish many items of impor- ever, there are some areas where the Gov- tant Government business. ernment has still to take a major initiative. The report of the Mandal Commission on MR. SPEAKER: if the House so de- Backward Classes, is still pending with the sires, it is okay. Government for acceptance and implementation of the major recommendations. Though SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes. the Commission had submitted its report in early 80s, yet the Government is still to take MR. SPEAKER: So, we skip Item No. 7 a decision in this regard. The High Power and go to Item No. 8. Panel on Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, Minorities and other weaker sections headed by Dr. Gopal Singh set up by Gov- ernment of India in 1980 had also made 11.27 hrs. important recommendations. HIGH COURT AND SUPREME COURT In view of the deep resentment and JUDGES (CONDITIONS OF SERVICE) frustration among the other Backward AMENDMENT BILL— CONTD. Classes, which constitute a substantial section of population in the country, I request the [English] Union Government to accept the Report and implement at least its major recommenda- MR. SPEAKER: The House will now tions. take up further consideration of the High Court and Supreme Court Judges (Condi- The Government should also take an tions of Service) Amendment Bill moved by early decision for the inclusion of certain Shri B. Shankaranand, on the 28th July, Castes and Tribes like the Gujjars, Lobanas, 1989. Jheevars, Tarkhans and Gaddis of Hima- chal Pradesh and Tamangs of West Bengal Shri Aziz Qureshi — not present. and Sikkim in the List of Scheduled Tribes/ Castes for which these sections have been Shri Y.S. Mahajan. pressing for a long time. SHRI Y.S. MAHAJAN (Jalgaon): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the High Court An early decision by the Union Govern- and Supreme Court Judges (Conditions of ment on the Mandal Commission Report for Service) Amendment Bill. In financial terms, other Backward Classes and the inclusion of the Bill is not important. Its’ object is to left out Tribes/Castes in the List of Sched- rationalise some fringe benefits such as to 17 High Court & Supreme SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 18 Court Judges Arndt. Bill raise the caroling of carry forward leave, to which is mainly due to the fact that law raise the leave allowance of Judges and to degrees like other degrees can be obtained fix the minimum family pension at Rs. 375/- easily by dubious means. The Minister should per month to the families of High Court consider or explore the possibility of holding Judges who have not held a pensionable a Central examination for those who are post prior to their appointment as such and aspirants for jobs in the judicial services. who retire within less than seven years of Legal procedures should .also be stream- service. lined to provide justice expeditiously. I do not wish to underestimate the significance of The Judiciary is the third pillar of the procedure. Every student of law or practitio- realm and the importance of its function ner will admit the truth of Henry Mane’s cannot be exaggerated. Thousands of statement that justice is secreted in the inter- learned persons with a judicious bent of stices of procedure. Sir, in our country, there mind have contributed to the building up of is no denying the fact that procedural law is the system of legal dispensation in the coun- abused to defeat the ends of justice through try and many of our Judges have distin- inter minable arguments, frequent adjourn- guished themselves as Jurists in the world. ments and excessive liberal attitude towards The system has grown up gradually over the grant to leave to appeal. Government is the last 150 years. But never was it in such a trustee of the national interest and Govern- dangerous position as rt is today. It is likely to ment is the biggest litigant in the High Courts collapse soon unless steps are taken imme- and the Supreme Court. Therefore, apart diately to strengthen and revitalise it. The from the interest of the people, the Govern- dispensation of justice has become almost ment itself is interested in seeing that justice impossible because delay is endemic in our is dispensed expeditiously. system. Justice delayed is justice denied is a truism which is neglected by us com- In this matter, I would like to recommend pletely. The number of cases pending in the strengthening Lok Adalat system. I myself High Courts and Supreme Courts is attended many Lok Adalat sittings in my enormous. In the Supreme Court alone, districts. Many contentious cases can be 2,04,000 cases are pending and the number decided immediately, when both the parties of such cases pending in the High Courts is are present and those cases are examined more than 1.6 million apart from the 10 by the people who are not judges, who are million cases pending in the bwer Courts. not professional lawyers. This was the situation as on 31st March, 1989. In the Supreme Court and High Courts, Then, I would like to bring to your notice cases remain pending for 15 to 20 years. the question of appointing women as judges. This means that if the case is filed in one We have been giving certain percentage of generation, the verdict is given in the next reservations for women in the lower levels, in generation. The reason for this serious situ- the Taluk Panchayat, district panchayat. But ation is the inadequacy in the number of the number of women judges in the High Judges. The previous Law Commission had Courts and the Supreme Court is very low. I recommended an increase in the number of hope, the hon. Minister will consider the Judges in the Supreme Court and High possibility of raising the number of women Courts. But steps have not yet been taken to judges in all the courts. fillthe vacancies. Therefore, steps should be taken immediately to increase the strength And then, there is one thing; it is a small of Judges. There is no dearth of talented and yet very important. When judges are trans- able advocates in our country. If necessary, ferred at the district level, they go about their salary and emoluments should be raised looking for houses. Considering the housing sufficiently to attract able and efficient people situation, it is very difficult to get proper from the profession. The Government should quarters. Therefore, I recommend that hous- also deal with inefficiency at the low levels ing for judges should be improved so that 19 High Court & Supreme AUGUST 14.1989 (Cond. o f Service) 20 Court Judges A rn d t B it

[Sh. V.S. Mahajan] to go in for the Panchayati Raj System and we are going to amend the constitution to transfer does not cause any inconvenience achieve that end, alongwith one more or have any adverse effects on the judges. constitutional amendment in respect of the municipal bodies, we should take a decision With these few recommendations and about the establishment of Nyaya Pan- suggestions, I recommend the acceptance chayats at the national level, so that all the of the Bill. cases of minordisputes may be got settled at the village level itself by the Nyaya Pan- [Translation] chayats. It will be a great relief for the villagers. SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN (Barmer): Mr. Speaker, Sip, I rise to support Similarly, there is the point of Lok the High Court and Supreme Court Judges Adalats. In our Rajasthan, judges of the High (Conditions of Service) Amendment Bill, court had taken special interest in Lok Adalats 1989. The benefit of family pension and and these Adalats had given very good other allied benefits should be extended to decisions and the number of cases decided them. Beside, this, I fully agree with the by them had increased considerably but now provision of raising the ceiling of carry for- I find that in fact, these Lok Adalats are not ward leave of the judges. I have found that functioning properly. Though we have en- the justice is beam ing costlier specially acted a law to make Lok Adalats an effective now-a-days. The people who want to file instrument, these Lok Adalats have not been writ-petHion for the protection of their rights functioning property. We should also think cannot do so without paying at least Rs. about the enactment of a law so that the Lok 5000 to the advocate. Therefore, if injustice Adalats may function effectively and take has been done to some particular class, and decisions. But as at present, our advocates if they belong to class II and if they want to file are trying to make the experiment of Lok a wrrt-petition for the protection of their rig hts, Adalats a failure because if the cases are they will have to face the problem of payment settled by the Lok Adalats, advocates will be of fees to the advocate to have justice from deprived of their fees which will be prejudi- the court. Even in High oourts and the su- cial to their professional interests. That is preme court, cases are not listed for hearing why these people do not want Lok Adalats to and cases are kept pending for 10 to 15 be a success. In this connection, we need to years. When the cases do not oome up for keep a watch on them and take all possible hearing for such a long period, you can remedial measures to check the move of the easily imagine how the people can get early advocates and pleaders. If somebody tries justice. Even if a case has been settled at the to make these Lok Adalats a failure, action lower courts and if an appeal is filed in the should be taken against such person. higher court, its takes years to decide. The system of judiciary which we have adopted At present, High courts and Supreme here has been inherited from the Britishers. Court are short of judges. Number of pend- Once we had introduced the system of ‘Nyaya ing cases in the Supreme Court is about 2 Panchayats* in the rural areas of Rajasthan lakhs. However, there is a greater number of and that system had proved very beneficial pending cases in the High courts. I have brthepeople. Only minor cases were settled been the Member of Lok Sabha for the last by these Panchayats and 'Nyaya Pan- ten years. I find that number of pending chayats’ were authorised to give their judge- cases has never declined, instead it has ments only in civil suits. That system proved increased. I have never heard from any Law beneficial for the people. If that very system Minister that number of pending cases had is introduced here, it may help the people to ever declined. Hence, effective steps should agreat extent to decide their minordisputes. be taken in this connection also. Till now, we What I want is that service we have decided have not taken any effective steps in this 21 High Court & Supnm SRAVANA 23,1911 (SA/G4) (Cond. of Servkx) 22 Court Judges Arndt. B it regard to as to reduce the number of pend- & was causing a serious set back to the entire ing cases. judiciary. As per the existing system, chief justice is appointed from some other state We have also enacted a law for the and it has a good effect and It has also provision of free legal aid to the poor. The enhanced the prestige of the judiciary. Now Central Government extended its assistance there is no scope of any partiality. Thus, the to the State Government for that purpose but Government has taken a very commendable it did not reach the poor. Even today, the step in this regard. What ever efforts may by services of an advocate at the Government made by some particular Individual to change expense, are not made available to the poor, the present system, the Government should though there are advocates on the panel of not change it. They should continue the the Government. In fact, on the Government present system with no change in it under panel, there are such lawyers, who are of a any circumstances. very low calibre and have not been a successful legal practitioner. Hence, they can With these words, I support the Bill. neither protect the interests of the poor nor that of the Government. In such situation [English] other lawyers have to be engaged to protect their rights. What I mean to say is that the SHRI HAROOBHAI MEHTA (Ahme- appointment of Lawyers, Public Prosecu- dabad): Sir, the Bill brought by the Law tors, additional public prosecutors for the Minister shows with what esteem and re- Government panel should be made essen- spect the Government and the Parliament tially on merit basis which was not hitherto treats the judges. I am, however, not quite being done. Present incumbents are not sure whether so much expenditure need to capable of defending the interests of the lavishly made on the conditions of service of accused. In fact, as per the present trend, the Supreme Court judges and High Court appointments to the post of public prosecu- judges. We should recall Mahatma Gandhi’s tor are being made on political considera- words, how the highly placed off icers, judges tions and consequently fail to protect the and ministers should be paid and should not interest of the Government As a result thereof be paid. In my respectful submission, the Government loses the cases. Therefore, payment of salary and allowances at a rate capable persons with at least ten year expe- equal to number of times of the average per- rience as legal practitioner should be ap- capita income will not be quite justified espe- pointed as public prosecutors, additional cially when the approach of the judiciary is prosecutors. Government panel of lawyers not quite kind to the Bills passed by Pariia- and revenue lawyers so that they could ment, legislations passed by Parliament and plead the cases properly. their implementation.

We should strive for cheap justice, proper Sometimes we have seen the instances provision for giving justice to the people in when in order to redeem the promise given the rural areas and final settlement of the to the electorate, Assembly or Parliament pending cases at the earliest passes a Bill and enacts it. And if somebody for his own individual interest challenges it. At present a lot of difficulties come up in courts very liberally give stay and the Act the way of appointing the judges to the remains unimplemented for five or seven or Supreme court and High courts and they are more years. So, it is temporarily voidened on more in respect of the appointment of the account of stay granted by court. So the Chief Justice. The system of transfer of the Parliament’s determination to fulfil the sov- chief justices has been.a great success. In ereign will of the people reflected by it re- fact, chief justices in Rajasthan High Court mains under abeyance for several years. were not able to handle the administratives- idecf the High Court as desired by them and Similarly, on many points, progressive 23 High Court & Supreme AUGUST 14, 1989 (Cond. of Service) 24 Court Judges Arndt. Bill

[Sh. Haroobhai Mehta] criminal conspiracy read with IPC 302. One investigating agency of the Maharashtra legislations are stayed even development Government decided to hand it over to the projects come to be stayed, many important CBI. And immediately a third party goes to development works suffer delay on account the Supreme Court and promptly gets the of court's stays. We feel sometimes that stay. The result is that, because of unprece- interest of the people and the spirit of the dented stay given by the Supreme Court, Constitution is often over-looked by many of neither the CBI nor the Bombay State Police the judges. agency could investigate and such a crime remains uninvestigated on account of the What is worse is, even revenue collec- Supreme Court’s stay. Common people think tion by the Central Government suffers on that weal their the person in India, easier for account of stay granted. More than Rs. 2,000 him to approach the court and get stay crores of Central Excise dues are bogged orders. This does not really increase the faith down on account of court’s stay orders. Even of the people in the judicial institutions. when Parliament has enacted a Bill to ex- clude the jurisdiction of High Court and the Similarly Parliament amendments. Supreme Courts jurisdiction under Article 32 Despite Parliament’s unequivocal and cate- and set up atribunalfor excise and customs, gorical amendment made in Article 368, the courts often go into it and grant stay. The Supreme Court went into the content of the result is, vested interests get benefited on Constitution amendment, in the case of account of court’s processes. On the other Keshwanand Bharthi. This is the only demo- hand, as my hon. good friend Shri Jain cratic country, perhaps, if I am not mistaken, pointed out, a number of litigations are pend- where amendments made in the Constitu- ing in the courts. So much so, even if no new tion by the amending body, that Is, the Par- petition is filed in the Supreme Court of high liament, under Article 368 is subject to scru- courts, it would take more than five decades tiny or examination by the courts on the to dispose of the present pending cases on contents and not on mere procedure. I can the assumption that no fresh of application is understand an amendment being thrown out filed in the Supreme Court and the high on the ground that the 2/3 majority or the courts. Sir, Justice delayed is justice denied. requisite majority was not there or certain People are fast losing faith in such institu- procedures were not gone through. But on tions. Something has to be done. Even re- the content, saying that the basic structure is spected and eminent judges like the retired violated, if they say something, it is not Judge Mr. D.A. Desai is on record to have understandable. And what is the basic struc- stated that judicial system is collapsing in our ture? it is what the Supreme Court says like country. I would earnestly urge the Law the Chancellor’s foot! Minister, the Parliament and the Govern- ment to go into the question of pending I think it is time for the Parliament to cases and see how justice can be admini- assert itself against the High Court or the stered without any avoidable delay. One of Supreme Court’s intervention in the matter the reasons why delays are continuing is of Parliament's power of amending the misuse of public interest litigation. In orderto Constitution. The power of the Parliament to save somebody’s personal interest, public amend the Constitution is not negotiable. interest litigations are initiated and they take With all respect to such institutions as the time of the court. And what is shocking is that Supreme Court, the High Court or the C & people say that those who can afford can get AG, we must point out that the Parliament easy access to Supreme Court and get the has the final disciplinary jurisdiction over the matter heard. Supreme Court, the High Court and the C & AG. Therefore there is nothing wrong if the Look at what happened in the Reliance Parliament goes into the matter as to how case. Somebody is arrested in Bombay for these institutions discharge their duties. 25 High Court & Supreme SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 26 Court Judges Arndt. Bill Sometimes even scant respect is shown sk>n has sufficiently increased the pay and to the Parliament as such by some judges. allowances of the bureaucrats and the sal- One of the Supreme Court judges—for the ary and allowances of the judges of High sake of respect I shall not name him—said in Courts and Supreme Court has also been October 1988— it is reported in the Patriot of increased by the Act of the Parliament. the 25th October, 1988—that the Parliament However today the salary and allowances of has made a mockery of its own statutory the executives particularly those of senior provisions by not imposing restriction on the Executives in the Private Sector are so high money that may be spent by political parties that the judges of the High Courts and Su- during elections. Out of respect to the judici- preme Court stand no where in comparison ary and in keeping with the tradition of defer* with them. Judges should be given a hand- ence to the judiciary. I did not pursue the some salary so that an eminent advocate matter under the of law parliamentary privi- who does not want to become a judge may leges. But I don’t think Parliament can take have some attraction or incentive to become these things lying down if a judge says that a judge. Several posts of judges in High the Parliament has made a mockery of its Courts are lying vacant which could not be statutory powers. I wish to emphasize that filled up despite the repeated assurances there should be a comity of jurisdiction. Just given by the Government because promi- as the Parliament shows respect to the judi- nent advocates who earn a lot in their profes- ciary and other constitutional institutions, sc sion, do not want to be appointed as judges. also Parliament deserves to be treated with Same is the case with the executives of the respect and with consideration by the judici- Private sector who do not want to give up ary. I cnly appeal through you at this juncture their handsome salary and allowances to that the judiciary should cultivate a culture join the public sector. This factor has to be where in the Parliament is respected as the looked into. A renowned advocate does not highest institution representing the sover- want to become judge as a result of which eign will of the people. many posts of judges remain vacant in High Courts. Due to these vacant posts, a large Of course, the Law Minister has consid- number of cases remain pending and people ered it fit to bring this Bill before the House for are unable to understand as to how this consideration. I shall not object to it. These backlog would be cleared. Therefore, I would are the observations which I wanted to make like to request the Government to make the at this juncture. salary and perks of judges so attractive that eminent lawyers may also be attracted to With these words, I conclude my sub- this side. Besides this, I would also like to say mission. that similarly, an upward revision should also be made in the salary and perks of judges working at the lower level. One more [ Translation] important point I would like make is that nowadays District judges and judges of similar rank feel obsessed for one reason or DR. G.S. RAJHAMS (Jhanjharpur): Mr. the other. I have observed that even a hard- Speaker, Sir, I would like to make two-three ened criminal is released on bail particularly submissions only. I think the main provisions in Bihar. In this regard I have talked to of the Bill relate to raising of the ceiling of several judges also and they are of the carryforward earned leave and liberalisation opinbn that generally people are afraid of of benefit of family pension in respect of appearing as witness in the court and sec- judges. I am of the opinion that the judges of ondly—Judges have not been provided High Courts and Supreme Court should be adequate security by the Government. There given adequate salaries and allowances so is no guarantee that if a dreaded Criminal that they may perform their duties without escapes from the jail, he will not kill or kidnap any fear or favour. The fourth pay commis- the judge of his family members. 27 High Court $ Supreme AUGUST 14.1909 (Cond. of Service) 28 Court JudQes Anydt. 9 *

[Dr. G.S. Rajhans] the retirement because the services of the judges are also essential and of great utility 11.57 h n tor the society.

[MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chau) As has been said just now by Shri Jain that Government is going to brirg about a Hence it it a vary serious matter to which drastic change in the set up or ?&nchayats Government should pay attantion. Tha judges and Nagarpalikas, there is a slight difference at tha lower level are panicky of criminals In tha designation of Sarpanch in B‘J>ar and and out of that fear, they release them on In rest of the country. In Bihar, the s urpanch bail. What I mean to say is that judges should is considered to be a man who leaks After the gat adequate security cover so that they may judicial side of it whereas in other parts of the take their decisions impartially and fear- country Sarpanch is the head of the Pan lessly. A provision should also made in the chayat The Panchayat should be encour- conditions of service in respect of High Court aged to settle the maximum numbor of local and Supreme Court judges that they wMi be disputes at Its own level. When a case is provided adequate security not only whBe m decided at the Panchayat level, no one gVes service but also after their retirement so that false evidence because he knows It that he they can perform their duty without any fear has to ftve in the very society. In this way the or favour. poor w i get justice at the Panchayat level and they will not have to go to any court I would also (ike to support the point raised by my friend Shri Mahajan that at Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the end I present there are a few lady judges in the would lite to say t hat the Government should High Courts and Supreme Court and their pay special attention to ensure a dignified life number should be increased. I have dis- for the judges of the Supreme Court. High cussed the point at various levels as to how Courts and the tower courts. cheap and quick justice can he provided to tha people but I could not come to any SHRI K.D. SULTANPUR! (Simla): Mr. conclusion. Though Lok Adalats have been Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the sat up in different parts of the country but High Court and Supreme Court Judges they are also functioning on the same lines. (Conditions o f Service) Amendment Bill Hence the Government should find out a moved by Shri Shankaranand in the House way to provide cheap and quick justice to the on 28th July. I feel that the measures taken people. Now-a-days a common man hesi- by the Government to up hold the dignity of tates to go to court because of his conviction Judges are highly commendable and I would that only that only a rich person who can like to congratulate the Government tor this. engage an eminent lawyer to plead his case, A large number of cases are pending in the can gat justice from the court. Ours is a High Courts, the SuDreme Court and the Welfare State. Hence it is our duty to stop bwer courts in the country. The pace of injustice to the poor and provide them cheap disposal is very slow. People who are fight- justice. I want that we should utilize the ing against injustice have become so hard services of retired judges also for this pur- up that they are finding it difficult to pay the pose. fees of their advocates and purchase court fee stamps. Nobody can wait long for justice. 12.00 hra. Here, I would Ike to point out that though the Government has enacted liberal laws with a One more submission I would like to view to do jusiioe to the poor people, yet the make is that Ike freedom fighters, family procedure adopted by the Government to members of the judges of High Courts and provide legal aid to the poor is a very lengthy Supreme Court should also get same amount one. k is in no way helpful to them. There are of family pension as they were getting after a large number of people who cannot pay f ul 29 High Court & Supreme SRAVANA 23,1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 30 Court Judges Arndt. Bill fees and they live at the mercy of God. They ward areas according to their merit and have no money and they cannot go to courts qualifications. While we are discussing the to get justice. The Government has taken a provision of various facilities for Judges of number of good measures such as appoint- the higher courts, I must take this opportunity ing Judges from amongst the Scheduled to make a submission about the ex-service- Castes and Scheduled Tribes in Assam, men who served the armed forces and sac- Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu. While I rificed a lot in service of the nation. In a way congratulate the Government for this, I would they are the people who do justice to the also like to requestthem to provide adequate nation and save the nation. I, therefore, reservation of seats for the people belonging request the Government to increase further to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes the existing rate of their pension while in- who are eligible for the post of Judges in the creasing the amount of pension for thp High Courts and the Supreme Court as it is Judges, because these people lay down the done in respect of Parliament and State best part of their lives (or the defence of their Legislatures etc. country and dedicate themselves to the service of the nation living away from their families. Their pension should also be brought I would like to request the hon. Minister at par with others. Sir, I knowthat this subject of Law to recruit one such eligible person m matter does not come under your jurisdiction each High Court and Supreme Court also but I would like to call upon the hon. Minister from amongst the Scheduled Castes and of Finance to take immediate steps in this Scheduled Tribes. regard. The ex-servicemen should be given maximum facilities. I am grateful to you for providing me an opportunity to speak. The Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, through you, I hon. Member who are eminent advocates would like to convey thanks to the hon. will plead the case of advocates here, but I Minister fcr the measures taken by the shall deal with problems of the villages only. Government for the women. Our hon. friend I would like to ask you to give adequate Shri Mahajan also made a mention of this representation to Scheduled Castes, Sched- thing in his speech. I would like to make a uled Tribes, women, physically handicapped fervent appeal here that women should also persons and the people belonging to minori- be given optimum representation in the ties in the appointment of Judges. It is a good appointment of Judges to the High Courts thing that the Judges are being granted and the Supreme Court. There are also pensionary benefits and vanous other facili- eligible person in the backward communities ties. At the same time, there should be time and minorities who are amply qualified to bound programme for expeditions disposal become Judges. I feel that they should be of cases. In case there are 15 cases with $ appointed as Judges. I know the manner in Judge, he goes on giving dates after dates which interviews are being held by the Public and the cases linger on for 2 to 4 years. Even Service Commissions. People possessing murder cases take 10 long years to reach the higher qualifications are not selected. They stage of judgement. I know that Shnmati do not get employment. Then what these Indira Gandhi was assassinated and a judge- people living in the villages could do who ment In her case took almost 4 years. I, received their education in village schools therefore, want that the judicial process and do not get the opportunity of education should be expedited. It should be cheaper in a Central School. They are not able to and not costly. It should not help the advo- receive good education. But the method of cates grab money from people. The Govern- doing justice m rural areas is a very good ment should lay down some norms in this one. I shall request the Government to take regard so that a poor man could get justice. note of this plus point and provide employ- With these words I support this Bill. ment to alt the educated youth in the back- 31 High Court A Supreme AUGUST 14,1989 (Cond. of Service) 32 Court Judges Arndt. Bill SHRI YOGESHWAR PRASAD YO- money. They have no respect for the coun- GESH (Chatra): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I try, justice and moral values. Hence it is very would like to congratulate the hon. Minister essential to think deeply before appointing of Law Mr. Shankaranand for instilling a new such people against these posts. enthusiasm in the members of Judiciary who were having a sense of frustration. Now they Most of the public prosecutors appointed will be able to contribute something in nation from amongst the advocates are generally building. Since long it was being felt that the appointed as Judges. That too when some salaries of the judges do not commensurate higher authority recommends the appoint- with their living standard and requirements. ment of some person(s), merit of the particu- The social life of the High Court and Su- lar individual is not taken into account. People preme Court Judges is very limited. They without merit are being taken against these have a very limited circle to move in. They posts. When judges or Deputy Commission- cannot mix up with people freely. They can- ers require any specific suggestion from not involve people in their work. The Govern- these advocates, it is not being made avail- ment realised their problems and felt the able to them. It is duty of the advocates to need of effecting basic changes in their Irvir^ give advice to the Judges and Deputy conditions and took necessary steps in this Commissioner(s) but such persons as they regard. The Bill moved in the House regard- are not of that calibre cannot give them right ing the allowances after the enhancement of advice. Hence it is not being made available salaries of judges with effect from 1 -11 -86 is to them. In certain cases people with lower also an appropriate and justified step taken qualifications are being appointed and by by the hon. Minister.This Bill seeks to raise that norms prescribed forthe appointment of the rate of allowances from Rs. 328 to Rs. Judges are not being adherent. Besides, 375 per month with effect from 1-11-86 which such people are not able to discharge the will enable them receive a handsome amount. duties of a public prosecutor properly. It is a commendable step. With this I would like to draw your attention to the appointment An hon. Member stated one thing to- of Judges in the High Courts and Supreme wards which would atso like to draw the Court. I request you to taken into account the attention of the hon. Minister that inter-state requirements of this trade and the Judicial transfer of judges would be good for admini- commissions. I feel that the percentage of stration of justice. I have seen judges also advocates appointed on these posts should falling prey to the regional biase adversely be reduced. Because, the advocates are affects the proper administration of justice. unbridled because of the very nature of their profession and they cannot work in the dis- The other important point made by our ciplined way like Judges. The Government colleage is with regard to appointment of should discourage the appointment of advo- people belonging to Harijans and Adivasis cates against these posts and particularly as judges in the High Courts and the Su- those advocates whose only aim is to earn preme Court. I fully support the point made more and more money and who do not give by him because definitely they will prove to due regard to the Judiciary and where char- be a good judge as their outlook it not feudal. acter does not fit into the mould of Judiciary. As these people hail from poor stratum of Such persons should not be taken for these society, they are not jealous of anybody. If is posts. Hence, I would like to cite the example natural that a person of feudal background of advocates like Shri Jethamalani who took will have some sort of afeelirg of discrimina- up the cases of criminals, dreaded criminals, tion but a person coming from the lowest traitors and terrorists. He is earning huge stratum of the society is free from such sums of money from these cases. I have prejudices. Therefore these people could be given just one example only, but it is not the proved to be a good judge. Women should case with any particular individual. The only also be appointed as judges. There is no aim of these dubious characters is to hoard harm in it. Though the people belonging to 33 High Court & Supreme SRAVANA 23,1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 34 Court Judges Amdt. Bill Harijan, Adivasi and other backward classes farmers should be provided cheaper and are educationally backward, but in practice quick justice. The people belonging to poor they are very capable and they are men of section of the society do not have money to character. They should be given preference go to the courts. That is why they have to in matter of appointment of judges because bear with atrocities and injustice perpetrated they are practically very capable persons in them. I would like to urge upon the Minister and are free from any kind of prejudices. of Law and Justice, who is a great supporter of poor people, to introduce reforms in our With these words, I conclude. judicial systems a poorest man could easily go to the court to seek justice. If it is not SHRI RAM BHAGAT PASWAN (Ros- possible, the powers vested in the High era): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Courts and the Supreme Court should be High Court and Supreme Court Judges delegated to the Gram panchayats so that (conditionsof service) Amendment Bill moved the poor people may get justice there. Our by Shri B. Shankaranand. Government has been trying its best for development of the country and bringing After independence, a lot of reforms socialism here. It has been seen that stay have been made in each and every Depart- orders are obtained from the Supreme Court ment but judiciary is the only sector, where or the High Courts against the acquisition of no radical changes have been made so far. land for digging a canal or constructing a Today people have a feeling of resentment school building or a Harijan colony or distrib- towards judiciary because there is no time- uting it among the poor people. Once High limit to dispose of a case, as a result of which Court or the Supreme Court grants stay people do not get proper justice. Sometimes order in the matter, the landlord takes pos- innocent persons are awarded punishment session of the land forcibly. Such irrational whereas actual culprits escape punishment. judgements are being delivered today. If Many hardened criminals never come in the someone wants to do anything for the wel- grip of law. Du9 to these reasons people are fare of the society, he should not be pre- losing faith in judiciary. I have great regard vented from doing so through the courts of for judges. Through this amending Bill their law. conditions of service are being improved and they will get their pension and other There is no representation of Harijans in allowances on enhanced rates. These facili- the courts today. Most of the judges belong ties should be provided to them so that they to the families of big landlords. That is why could led a respectable life. So far as the they deliver judgements against poor people. question of justice is concerned, people do It should be ensured that the judiciary does not get proper justice. We have seen many not come in the way of welfare measures such cases in which atrocities were commit- being taken under 20-Point Programme and ted on Harijans and they were deprived of other programmes. I would also like to sub- their land but even then no punishment was mit that the Supreme Court should not de- given to the accused. Same is the with cases liver a judgement which adversely affect the burning of women for dowry. Hardly any poor people who have taken loans. No writ culprit is punished. Steps should be taken to petition should be allowed by the Court in remove the shortcomings in our judicial this regard. system. Besides, our judicial system is not in the favour of poor people. Shri Shankar- Steps should be taken to fill up the posts anand is a staunch supporter of the poor of judges reserved for Scheduled Castes people. We hope that necessary reforms and Scheduled Tribes. These people are should be made in our judicial system to also very capable. While delivering judge- enable the poor section of our society to go ment, they will keep in mind interests of to the Supreme Court or the High Courts to Harijans and Tribals. We hope that reserva- seek justice. Poor Harijans, Adivasis and tion policy will be fully implemented in judici- 35 High Court A Supreme AUGUST 14.1980 (Cond. o f Service) 36 Court Judges AmdL B it

[Sh. Ram Bhagat Pas wan] vacant That, Sir, is a very high percentage and it aiao affects the question of arrears. It ary also. Woman should also be given reser- affects the performance of the courts. There- vation. .Judges should be transferred from fore, Sir, the Law Commission had gone into one state to other at least after a period of the matter and had suggested that instead of three years in order to make the judgements the present procedure that wo are following, free from the evil influence of communaiism there should be a national body, something and caste bias and local prejudices. like s Supreme Judiciary Council, which should deal with appointments. They should The Bill, which has been moved for be vested with this authority and the role of improvement in the service conditions of the Government there— naturally the Gov- judges is a welcome step. These facilities ernment shall play a part in it Government should be given to them and along with this, shall be represented in that Council or reforms should also be introduced in the Committee— shall be basically to collect the judicial system. necessary information about the persons who are to be considered and of course [English) about notifying their appointments.

SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan- Sir. I feel the present this procedure of ganj): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Bill appointments is very very time consuming before us is a technical Bill and I see no and needs to be streamlined. Sir, there is reason to oppose it bOt it gives me an oppor- also the question of the appointment of Chief tunity to draw the attention of the Govern- Justice and the judges of the Supreme Court ment and of the Hon. Minister to certain when the vacancies fall. I don't see any aspects of judicial administration that have reason why within this present scheme of been exercising the mind of the people. things, half the judges of any High Court should not be from outside the State and as Sir, the first question is with regard to far as possble Chief Justice may be from the mounting arrears in the High Courts and outside. Why cannot this be go that we even in the Supreme Court. I am sure, the comply an alt India Seniority List of High Hon. Minister is fully aware of the situation Court judges and the moment a vacancy because he has been answering questions arises, the man highest on that list should on the subject practically in every Session of automatically be appointed as the Chief the house. I do hope that under the new Justice? It should be done without any ques- dispensation that has been announced by tion. It should be automatic. Similarly, K a the hon. Chief Justice, these arrears will go vacancy arts os in Supreme Court, immedi- down but I do request the hon. Minister to ately the senior most person on the common take us into confidence that the Government Rst of seniority should be considered, of is looking at this problem in all seriousness course, m my view keeping aside those who and is trying to devise means in consultation have just a few months to go. That applies to with the judiciary to bring the (eve! of the afi he promotions in Government In the arrears down. judiciary and in the executive that for the highest post if among the candidates those The second question that arises is the who have got just a few months or a very question of vacancies Mr. Deputy Speaker, small period to go, they stiould normally be Sir, as we know the possible date of super- passed over because they are not in a posi- annuation, the vacancies can be anticipated. tion to make any impression on the Institu- The gap between a vacancy arising and tion or leave a mark on the Institution or give being fitted sometimes runs into years not ft a new character or orientation, but. wtLn months and at any given time, I have a this reservation, the senior most persons feeling that roughly of the order of about 15 should be considered one by one and I think par cent of the posts of High Court judges are with this procedure the vacancies at least at 37 High Court A Supreme SRAVANA 23.1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 38 Court Judges A rndt B it the level of Chief Justice and the judge of the hundred million, that is about ten crores and Supreme Court can be filled in without any there are States which have got a very smal delay whatsoever. population running into just a few lakhs. I think there should be some common na- I would like to refer to the question of tional yardstick in order to make justice multiple appeal which is also the reason for accessible to every citizen, bring it within a the mounting arrears. I looked into the question of the number of cases before the Su- reasonable distance of his door step. For this preme Court which relate to tenant landlord purpose, we should have a system of having relationship particularly on the question of a High Court Bench for every one crore or house tenancy. two crores of population. So, let us have a national yardstick and let us fire the numbei of High Courts and Benches accordingly. I was shocked to find that a very high per- For this purpose, some small States and centage of the cases running irtto tens of Union Territories can be dubbed together, thousands of cases before Supreme Court as well as some States can be divided into originate largely from an area very close to various regions. Now all the High Court Delhi, within a small radius of Delhi, dogging benches within a certain State can obviously the entire proceedings of the Supreme Court bo under purview of one High Court In other The Law Commission had suggested that In cases, the High Court may be located in one these matters there should be not more than of these States or Union Territories with a two levels of appeals and such cases need Bench each in ovary one of those States or not necessarily come before the Supremo Onion Territories which are under its jurisdic- Court. I think some legislation is required to tion. I think a rational approach is required that effect. and not an an hoc approach. Otherwise It leads to agitations (ike the agitation we are I abo come to the question of speciali- facing in the Western Uttar Pradesh for the sation. This question has exercised the mind last four or five years. It gets a political of the legal experts in our country for a long colour. I do not understand why this subject time. Lite b becoming very complex. We are should have a political colour at ad. If there is having pues of laws in our Statute Book and a uniformly applicable national yardstick •very day we are adding to them. I think we which should satisfy every one, I think no should plead guilty. We are responsfcle for one would grumble. No State, no region or this. It is impossible for any single individual no people can grumble that they are not to be an expert on all branches of taw. R is having their due share or equal access to the jus* not done. In most advanced countries, higher levels of judiciary. today there* is a system of specialisation even at the highest level. You have got a Finally, I would Hce to speak one word constitutiona] bench, you have got a civil about the question of reservations. I think It bench and you have a criminal bench. Some is a fa d that many sed ions of our society are such p?acti«* might be considered by the not represented in the higher levels of judid* hoti Chkri Justice in trying to worK out the aiy even ai the district judge level. I find that air^ vj&frient within the Supreme Court or they are monopolised by the caste groups wfthin every High Court. which have naturally advanced in the field of education and which have better tradition of This brings me to the question of reor- legal education. I will not plead for a system ganisation of the High Court system. There of reservation. But surely, without even trying are States and States. There are States a system of reservation in the matter of which have got a population of nearly one selection, due attention can be paid to this 39 High Court & Supreme AUGUST 14, 1989 (Cond. of Service) 40 Court Judges Arndt. Bitt

[Sh. Syed Shahabuddin] Courts and Supreme Court have been well- remunerated by this Bill. The services of the question to see that all sections of the na- judges are required for Commissions and for tional community have due representation extra-judicial functions. Because of this, the both at the level of district judges as well as strength of the courts remained below the at the level of High Court judges. When we sanctioned number. The number of pending have got sufficient number of people coming cases have increased because of the simple from the weaker sections at the district judge reason that more cases are filed than the level, they will automatically find a seat at cases are actually disposed of. So, th is aspect higher levels. Here I must caution the hon. may be kindly looked into. What we want is Minister through you Mr. Deputy Speaker not the quantity of the judges but the quality, that it is becoming increasingly difficult to judges. The judgements are very lengthy. find credible judges from the Bar. I am afraid The time taken by the judges are long. the level of legal education in the country is fast going down. I think this needs to be Because of the recent legislation of the stressed. This needs to receive the highest Government, the service conditions of the attention of the Government because if the judges have greatly improved. The amend- level of legal education goes down, you shall ments of the rules, as stated in this Bill, have not have judgments which will be legally liberalised their additional benefit. The dis- coherent. You will not have judgments which satisfaction of men of talents and integrity to will settle an issue. These judgments may seek judicial posts have also been reduced. unsettle an issue and create more problems than they decide, because of poor language, In this House when this matter was poor expression or poor legal insight. I would raised more than once, the previous Law suggest that the hon. Minister should apply Minister had stated that efforts were under- his mind on how to raise the standard of legal way to have Circuit Benches (without admin- education so that in turn, the standard of istrative set ups where they would hear cases) ju< ciary can be raised to appropriate levels. of High Courts to bring the process of justice cbser to where large sections of people Finally Sir, I come to the question of were in other parts of States. judicial reform. This is a perennial problem, ft is like a mighty ocean. I do not know I want to know from the Hon. Minister whether to touch it or not. But I am sure that this point. When the policy of the Govern- the hon. Member who preceded me is abso- ment is to take justice to the door-step of the lutely right in saying that no real judicial people and also to have more Circuit Courts reform has taken place in our country. The for different High Courts, what steps have essence of the reform, in my view, is decen- been taken so far in different States as to tralisation to make the justice cheaper and have more Circuit Courts? nearer to the people. In Orissa, there is a great demand for With this view, the various reports of the having a permanent bench of Circuit Court at Law Commission and various suggestions Berhampore in Ganjam District. This de- made by various learned bodies should be mand is very genuine. It has been stated in duly considered by the Government and a this House that for having Circuit Courts, the break-through should be attempted. High Courts in consultation with the Govern- ment can have Circuit Courts. Regarding the SHRI SOMNATH RATH (Aska): Sir, I setting up of permanent benches, the Gov- rise to support the Bill. The judges of the High ernment of the State in consultatbn with the 41 High Court & Supreme SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 42 Court Judges Arndt. Bill High Court should write to the Central Gov- Sub-Collector, the Revenue Commissioner ernment and the Central Government will do etc. But whenever a person encroaches it. As such, when there are a large number of upon Government land and revenue Court pending cases-pending the setting up of gives notices he goes to the civil court, and permanent benches of the High Courts in gets a stay order, for which the civil court has different places-why not the Government no jurisdiction. And the stay order continues contact the Orissa Government as well as for years together. Therefore, development the Orissa High Court to have a Circuit work suffers, and the number of cases in- Bench of the High Court at Berhampore? creases in civil court having no jurisdiction. This is my appeal to the Law Minister. The Such suits should not be entertained by civil buildings for the court and talented advo- courts, under there circumstances, I would cates are there, together with infrastruc- suggest that the Law Minister, as I said, can tures. The agitation is going on since one talk to his counterpart in different States on year. this issue: when the Statute specifically prohibits the jurisdiction of the civil courts, I had put a question asking whether it that should be adhered to; and let notthe civil had come to the notice of the Government courts interfere in the jurisdiction of the reve- that an agitation was going on, demanding a nue courts and give stay orders. Thereby, permanent Branch of High Court at Berham- the number of cases can be reduced. These pore. The hon. Minister had replied to me, are the facts which require the attention of that no such agitation had come to the notice the State Government at the grassroots level, of the Government. In fact, the agitation is besides the writ petitions and other matters, going on since one year; and the demand of for which the High Court has the original all those lawyers from the southern parts of jurisdiction. Orissa is to have a permanent Bench of the High Court at Berhampore. Pending estab- So, while supporting the Bill, I would lishment of a permanent Bench, I would suggest that these basic factors viz. admini- suggest keeping in view a policy of the stration of the law at the grassroots level, at Government why not the Government talk to the district level and the State level should be the High Court as well as the Orissa Govern- thought of, and specific steps should be ment and see that a Circuit Court of the taken so that the pendency of cases does Orissa High Court functions there immedi- not start from the munsiff court and come to ately. the High Court and the Supreme Court. We are not considering how the cases increase at the lower courts level. Another point I would like to bring to the notice of the hon. Minister is that the increase of cases starts at the grassroots SHRI HAROOBHAI MEHTA: I want to level, namely, munsiff courts and othei courts. go on record—appreciating the steps taken That is why the pendency increases. For by the Law Minister and taking care to en- example, in the Statute, in some areas the sure that a Scheduled Caste Judge is ap- civil court's jurisdiction is completely barred, pointed in Gujarat High Court. and the jurisdiction of the revenue court is there. For instance, regarding the encroach- MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have ment and settlement of Government the already spoken. Now the Minister. Statute prohibits the jurisdiction of the civil courts altogether. And this jurisdiction is given to the revenue court, i.e. Tehsildar, (Interrupt bn) 43 High Court £ Supreme AUGUST 14, 1989 (Cond. o f Service) 44 Court Judges A rn d t B it

THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUS- leave-after 45 days of leave on ful allow- TICE (SHRI B. SHANKARANAND): Sir, The ances, they used get a fixed amount of Rs. present Bill tor consideration before the 2220/- per month. Now they will be getting House is an indication of the Government’s Rs. 4800/-. Under leave on half allowances, mind concerning the Judiciary, and on im- they used to getting a fixed rate of Rs. 111 (V proving the service conditions of the Judges. • per month; now they will be getting 30 per cent of the salary that is about Rs. 2400/. As has been stated in the Statement of With regard to Chief Justices of the High Objects and Reasons of the Bill, this Bill is of Court, they will be getting usual salary and a consequential nature, on account of the thereafter they will be getting 55 per cent of recommendations of the Fourth Pay Com- the salaiy. About Chief Justices, for the first mission Certain amendments were needed 45 days of leave on f ull allowances, they wil in view of the recommendations of the 4th be getting usual salary and thereafter 55 per Pay Commission, and these amendments cent of the salary that is about Rs. 5000/-. have been suggested here. Under leave on half salary allowances, they will be getting Rs. 2500/-. I must thank all the Members for their unanimous support for the provisions of the This is a very technical Bill and the Bill. The Members have spoken on various Members have no hesitation in supporting iL aspocts of the Judiciary, besides the service But they have made certain observations conditions of the Judges.... right from the about the functioning of the judiciary. So, first legal education to the recruitment of judges I deal with the mounting arrears about which at the Districts and other places, 1 mention Members have shown their concern. Steps here what they were getting and whai they have been taken in this regard. The question will get. Various aspects like reservation for of arrears was discussed in the Conference SC&ST, minorities, weaker-sections and of the Chief Justices, Chief Ministers and backward classes, etc. have been touched Law Ministers in the year 1985 and certain by the hon. Members. Before replying to resolutions, recommendations passed by them, I thought it is proper to inform the this Conference; they have been commended House what the Judges are getting. A Judge to the High Courts and the State Govern- of the High Court was getting Rs. 3500/- plus ments for implementation. In this regard, the full allowances. Now he is getting Rs. 8000 Code of Civil Procedure was also amended; - plus DA and other allowances. A Chief the Code of Criminal Procedure was also Justice of the High Court was getting Rs. amended in order to avoid certain obstadec* 4000/- plus other allowances. Now he Is and difficulties which were com ing in the way getting Rs. 9000/- plus other allowances. A of reducing arrears. Chief Justice of India was getting Rs. 5000/ - phis other allowances. Now he is getting Hon. Members have raised points about about Rs. 10,000/- plus DA and other allow- the recommendations of the 77th Law ances at Central rates. Commission's Report The Law Commis- sion deals with delays and arrears in Trial On account of the provisions in the Bill Courts. In the 79th Report, the Law Commis- amending various Sections of the ' n54 Act sion deals with delays and arrears In the regarding High Court Judge > and Aat High Courts and other Appellate Courts regarding Supreme Court judges, the '- suggesting various procedural reforms. They ances which they used rtey* have been sent to the various High Courts leave on full allowance -usual salsiy and qnd State Governments for implementation. aRowancas drawn prior ic poceecing on I should say that the Comm It ee of Chief 45 High Court & Supreme SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 46 Court Judges Amdt. Biff Justices of tha High Courts, constituted by A question was raised about the ap- the Government in the y oar 1964to study the pointment of Judges and the delay in the problem of arrears in the High Courts, has appointment of Judges. It has been the suggested certain recommendations. The impression of the common people in the Committee went into the matter in detail and country that the appointments are made by suggested numerous recommendations. the Government. Of course, they are made Some of the reforms require amendment of by the Government. But the procedure for legislation and High Court rules and orders appointment of High Court and Supreme whereas some others require issue of ad- Court Judges is governed by certain provi- ministrative instructions on the part of the sions of the Constitution. Article 124 deals various High Courts. The suggestions of the with the appointment of Supreme Court Committee, as accepted by the Govern- Judges and Article 217 with that of High ment, have been sent to the State Govern- Court Judges. There, we are required to ments and the Union Territory administra- consult the Governors of the States con- tions; and the High Courts are requested to cerned. the Chief Justices of the State High take necessary action in the matter. Courts and the Chief Justice of India and then forward them according to the proce- I should mention that the High Courts dure for appointment, to the President of are taking steps to expedite disposal of cases India. In this, unfortunately, delays take place in their way, as cases involving common because the moment a recommendation questions are being grouped together, mat- comes from a Governor or a Chief Justice of ters are listed for hearing by giving short a State High Court, during the process of returnable dates, printing of records is dis- these names either the Governors change pensed with in many cases and priority is or the Chief Justice goes by retirement or on grvjn to cases requiring quick disposal. account of other things and we have to again go back to them to take their views and invariably the names are different. Again, I must say that—though now I am not the process continues. Without consulting practising— I have been a lawyer. I had the the Chief Justice and the Governor we can- experience of practising both in the District not process the appointment. So, the delay Courts. High Courts and the Supreme Coun is not deliberately done, it is inherent in the and I am quite aware of the basic reasons very procedure laid down by the Constitu- how the cases are adpumed, how the number tion. of cas*8 increases on the file of the various H£h Courts and the inherent delay on ac- Hon. Member, Shri Shatebuddin sug- count of legal procedures and the manipu- geste

[Translation] (Interruptions)* SHRI AZIZ QURESHI (Satna): Mr. 'Not recorded. 53 High Court & Supreme SRAVANA 23.1911 (SAKA) (Cond. of Service) 54 Court Judges Amdt. Bill

[English] you want to skip the Lunch hour and continue the discussion. MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing goes on record. SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yet.

(Interrupt ions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: So, we continuo our discussion. SHRIB. SHANKARANAND: Sir, I would like to state that at present, the Government The question is: is not considering about the increase of the retirement ago of the Judges. The hon That the Bill further to amend the High Member said about the appointment of cer- Coun Judges (Conditions of Service) tain Judges.! should say that this BHI is there Act, 1954 and the Supreme Court to strengthen the judicial system and to Judges (Conditions of Service) Act, make the Judiciary independent. The ac- 1958, be taken into consideration." countability of the Judiciary is left to thom- selves. We are accountable to the people of The motion was adopted this country. If we fail to do certain things which we promised to the people, the people The House will now take up Clause-by- will just throw out the Government. But for Clause consideration of the Bill the judiciary, the accountability is left to themselves. So, (t is for them to raise the The question is: confidence and trust in them by the people. If the trust and confidence of the people in The Clauses 2 to 6 stand part of the the Judiciary is reduced, to that extent, the Bill." accountability of the Judiciary comes down. If the Judiciary fails in this country, that will be The motion was adopted the end of democracy. Clauses 2 to 6 were added to the Bio (Interruptions)* CLAUSE 7 (Amendment of Section 16A) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothinggoes on record. Amendment made

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE “Page 2 , lines 38 and 39,— MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE DE- for "calculated at the rate of half of PARTMENT OFCHEMICALS AND PETRO- the family pension so admissible to CHEMICALS IN THE MINISTRY OF IN- him" DUSTRY (SHRI P. NAMGYAL): Sir, we would like to sit through the Lunch hour substitute because many hon. Members want to speak on the next Bill. "twenty-five per cent of the pension admissible’ (1) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I want to ascertain the sense of the House whether (Shri B. Shankaranand)

'Not recorded. 55 S.C. and S. T. (Prev: of AUGUST 14, 1989 Atrocities) Bill 56

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques- THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE tion is: MINISTRYOF WELFARE (DR. RAJENDRA KUMARI BAJPAI): I beg to move*: “That Clause 7, as amended, stand part of the Bill.” That the Bill to prevent the commission of offences of atrocities against The motion was adopted the members of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes, to provide Clause 7, as amended, was added to the for Special Courts for the trial of such BUI offences and for the relief and rehabilitation of the victims of such offences MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- and for matters connected therewith or tion is: incidental thereto, be taken into consideration." “That clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the long Title stand part of the Bill." Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, this House is aware of the deep concern our Government The motion was adopted has for the welfare of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. A separate Welfare Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and long Ministry was created in 1985, specially for Title were added to the Bill the welfare of weaker section of the society. Many new initiatives have been taken, par- SHRl B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, I beg ticularly in the last few years to improve the to move: lots of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, in trying to discharge a mandate of “Thatthe Bill, as amended, be passed." the Constitution. Poverty aleviation programmes which provide a special attention MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques- to the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled tion is: Tribes have been expanded and intensified.

“Thatthe Bill, as amended, be passed." 13.11 hrs. The motion was adopted

[SHRl SOMNATH RATH in the Chair] 13.10 hrs. First the IRDP and other programmes were improved considerably and now these SCHEDULED CASTES AND SCHED- have been replaced by a bigger scheme of ULED TRIBES (PREVENTION OF the Jawahar Rozgar Yojana. ft is because ATROCITIES) BILL we think that if we have to improve the economic conditions of the weaker sections [English] of the society, specially Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and those who are MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Wegotothe below the poverty line, they should be given next item. employment. For that, Jawahar Rozgar Dr. Rajendra Kumari Bajpai. Yojana has come in a big way.

*Moved by the recommendation of the President. 57 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. o f SRAVANA 23.1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) BUI 58

Drinking wells and irrigation wells have nity and some of them are bonded labour been provided for this group. The need of too. We will free them through this Bonded housing has been met by the Indira Awas Labour Act and they will be rehabilitated by Yojana. The programme for liberation of giving them land and money as well. scavengers has been given a greater impe- tus. (want to tell the House that though in the We are witnessing today the signs of Constitution, we have abolished untouch- fruits of development reaching the Sched- abilrty, it is also true that unless and until we uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. But it is remove this sort of work, i.e. scavenging, not all. With greater spread of education and there will not be much impact, So, the libera- with the socio-economic condition improv- tion of scavenging programme is very impor- ing, the relations in society sometimes come tant for removing untouchability from our under tension as a a result of this change. As society. The education of Scheduled Castes the situation is changing and the change is and Scheduled Tribes which is of crucial coming into the society, we see that in the importance to their growth and development countryside, in rural India specially, there is has received much greater attention. Educa- some kind of tension also and that is be- tion is very important to fight not only poverty cause of atrocities on Scheduled Castes and but it gives them strength to fight social Scheduled Tribes in some part of the country injustice as well. We want Scheduled Castes orthe other. Highercaste groups sometimes and Scheduled Tribes people to stand against do not like change in the socio-economic social injustice andfor that awareness should structure and tensions develop. These are be created through education. So. education the causes of atrocities and the Bill is in- programme is very important and under the tended to prevent these atrocities and so I new education policy and under the 20-point am dealing with that. The demand for justice, programme, we have laid emphasis to this for equality, for a human living standard, for aspect. The number of students studying knowledge, for education andlreedom leads beyond the Matriculation stage has gone up Vr\ sovrve cases \o axeaWsaWonbv groups vrt\o to 13 lakhs. This is an open-ended scheme are not enlightened enough to recognise the where we are providing scholarships to our healthy signs of growth. Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe boys so that they can go for higher studies. Coach- People are still not going to tolerate the ing centre are provided to them so that they growth of the development of Scheduled can take the advantage or avail the opportu- Castes or of those people who were till now nity of competing with other sections of the working under them. They can come up and society. demand their rights. Sometimes tension erupts in the locality. In such situations, A special drive is currently on for filling atrocities or a variety of offences are commit- up the backlog which had arisen as a result ted on members of Scheduled Castes and of non-fulfilment of reserved seats for SC/ Scheduled Tribes. These are the causes. ST. Efforts are also being made to free them from bonded labour and to find land for I have had occasion to tell this House cultivation. regarding the recent trend in the increase of such offence against members of the Sched- As well all know, about 45% of the uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The other Scheduled Caste population are landless day while we were discussing this matter in labourers and they are mostly living below the House, a question was put and I have poverty line. So, they have to be given these answered such questions many times in the facilities and we have to give them opportu- last four years about atrocities on Scheduled 59 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) Bill 60

[Dr. Rajendra Kumari Bajpai] such instances have been reported such as in KerHa where a member of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. Last week I Caste was forced to eat human excreta. was saying that I will be coming with some There are reports of a bridal party being Bill on atrocities. Sometimes there was chased and houses of this community razed healed discussion on this point. This ques- to the ground merely because the bride- tion is constantly raised in this House that groom had the temerity to ride on a horse there is increase of such offences against through the village streets. That bridegroom members of Scheduled Castes and Sched- was riding on a horse. He was going through uled Tribes. Sometimes hon. Members are the village streets. So, the upper-caste people also agitated on this. During 1988, there felt as to how he could ride on a horse and so were a little over 15,000 offences against the houses of those poor Scheduled Caste Scheduled Castes and 3,300 cases in re- people were razed to the ground. The efforts spect of Scheduled Tribes. Of these, hei- of the Government to provide land have nous offences such as murder, arson, rape been frustrated in many cases. This is an- and grievous hurt accounted for about 3300 other example of atrocities on such people. cases in respect of Scheduled Castes and In some States where the land is allotted to 783 In respect of Scheduled Tribes, There Scheduled Caste people, forcible dispos- are other minor offences also. This shows session or illegal occupation Caste people, the tendency, trend and thinking of the upper forcible dispossession or illegal occupation caste people. They do not want that Sched- of such land is reported to Government. This uled Caste and Scheduled Tribe people is because of the fact that the upper-caste should be respected in the society like oth- people are strong people. They think that ers. The nature of these offences in many these poor Scheduled Caste people should States indicated that these were not isolated have no right on such lands. They forcibly instances but represented a trend in the occupy the land. So, land is also a cause of country. In cities and towns and areas where such atrocities. In Madhya Pradesh, recently the society was generally aware of the need the Government launched a special pro- to bring about such changes, the upward gramme to see that possession or effectively socio-economic mobility of the Scheduled restoring land to members of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes was accepted Caste and Scheduled Tribes who had been and tensions did not arise. But in certain rural given pattas for the land, is implemented. areas things are very bad. In rural areas, Such programmes are taking place as a traditions seem to be difficult to dislodge. It is special drive. That is oui policy. That is the difficult to dislodge the prejudices and tradi- guideline from the Central Government. So, tions there. Hence, the Government thought they are trying to implement the programmes. that certain special measures would be But still there are cases where things are not necessary at this point of time. So, we are properly implemented or if pattas are given bringing in the Scheduled Castes and the to Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) people, the upper-caste people in the village Bill. In this Bill, we have also defined as to or those who are in possession of such a what are the atrocities and we will specifi- land still try to hold the possession of their cally deal with those things. land or they grab the land meant for weaker sections. They will not part with that land. So, Sir, the causes of such incidences were the Scheduled Caste is not able to occupy related generally to land or to continued that though he has got pattas. ft is the one exploitation or enforcement of traditional point of under cause or the pattern of atrocity demeaning practices. It is regrettable that that is committed on women folk. In some 61 S.C.and$.T. (Prw.ot SRAVANA23.1911 (SA/C4) Atrocities) BUI 62 unfortunate incidents the women folk of I will only mention two or three points Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes though there are so many other points which are sought to be dishonoured and assaulted are the salient features of the new legisla- with the object of teaching a lesson to that tion. For the first time, we have defined this community. This is a very ugly sort of thing term in this Bill, that is, what will constitute and a very cruel mode of thing which is atrocity. It says: resorted to by certain people. And this is the worst type of atrocities committed on Sched- “Forcing a member of Scheduled Caste uled Caste people in dishonouring women or Scheduled Tribe to drink or eat any folk. In tribal areas sexual exploitation is inedible or obnoxious substance as know to occur and the willingness of the the human excreta or acting with an innocent tribal women is secured by exer- intention to cause injury, insulting or cise of authority or influence. The commu- annoying by dumping excreta, car- nity is sometimes sought to be pressurised casses and other similar items in their by denying them access to public places for locality, taking off their clothes forcibly, easing themselves or for cremation or a particularly of the women folk, forcibly water source et. Such type of things are still dispossessing them of their land and going on in some parts of India. Now in the keeping them as bonded labour and 20th century, this is very shameful for the forcing them to do beggar, interfering society. We have to not only create aware- in the rights guaranteed to them for ness but we have also to stop it with strong representation in public bodies, through hand. We are going to take this strong elections, utilising legal process for measure. causing harassment and injury by in- stituting false, malicious or vexatious Instances have occurred of fouling of suits or legal proceedings against them water source or dumping carcass in the and subjecting their women folk to vicinity of their houses. It is to humiliate and assault and sexual exploitation by tease the Scheduled Caste people. All these persons in a position to dominate their when taken together form a pattern which wiir. calls for more stringent legislative measures. Property is often the basis of atrocities on Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The Bill which is before this House seeks Hence, wrongful dispossession of the prop- to classify most of such instances as Atroci- erty is made an atrocity under the Bill. The ties on Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Bill also provides that upon conviction, in Tribes. We have defined these atrocities and addition to a sentence to be passed, the included all these atrocities In this Bill. Al- movable and immovable property belonging though many of these offences could proba- to the convicted persons and used in the bly be covered under the normal law of the offences would be liable for forfeiture. This is land, we are witnessing today a difference in very important and that is why it is made very degree which calls for a differentiation in kind stringent. in respect of these offences. R was necessary to bring this Bill. The Bill hence pro- The Bill includes offences relating to poses to specify higher punishments as also property of persons and carrying punish- laying down some minimum punishment for ments of ten years and above under the such offences. We have elaborately men- Indian Penal Code and committed by non- tioned the various kinds of atrocities which Scheduled Castes and non-Scheduled we have included in this Bill. Tribes on the ground that the victims happen 63 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14, 1989 Atrocities) Bill 64

[Dr. Rajendra Kumari Bajpai] preventive side, but at the same time to see the rehabilitation part also. to be members of Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes, as atrocities. The Bill places a special responsibility on the public servants who are not members of Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe to The Scheduled Tribes living in Sched- take action to protect the interests of scheduled Areas or Tribal Areas are harmed in uled castes and scheduled tribes against many ways by vested elements. Article 19(1) atrocities being committed or taking of puni- provides for the protection of the interests of tive and rehabilitative measures. the Scheduled Tribes. The Bill, therefore, provides for externment of a person who is The Bill overall aims at ensuring that likely to commit an atrocity as defined in the when the fruits of development and spread Act against a member of a Scheduled Tribe of education is now reaching the scheduled in a Scheduled or Tribal Area, from that area castes and scheduled tribes the benefits for a period extending to two years. therefrom are not taken away or denied by vested interests. I am sure these measures The Bill provides for minimum punish- will be welcomed by all and enlightened ment of six months imprisonment and fine for sections of society and that we shall in our the offences. country succeed in removing the stain of such inhuman treatment towards a section Some ofthe other features of the Bill are of our people by vested interests. The dream appointment of Special Courts and Special of Mahatma Gandhi for the uplift of these public prosecutors, conferment of powers groups is being brought to reality by our exercisable by a police officer or any officer Government and I seek your cooperation in of the State Government and protective and passing this Bill and taking the message to preventive measures that are to be taken by that far corners of our country. I hope that, the law and order machinery to check the after giving your comments, this Bill will help atrocities. The Bill further contemplates ar- in creating a proper atmosphere in the whole rangements for effective implementation of of the country and this Bill is going to have the Act, and among other things, provides for effect all over. economic and social rehabilitation of the victims of atrocities. These are the salient With these few words, Sir, I beg to move features of the Bill. the motion for consideration.

We say that prevention is better than MR. CHAIRMAN: Motion moved: cure and the Bill also looks after the preventive measures. If an area is declared prone to atrocities it will become the bonded duty of “That the Bill to prevent the commis- the law and order machinery to take all sion of offences of atrocities against possible measures for instilling a sense of the members of the Scheduled Castes safety and security. Schemes would be for- and the Scheduled Tribe to provide for mulated under the general guidance of the special courts for the trial of such of- Government of India to provide for such fences and for the relief and rehabilita- measures as also for providing prompt and tion of the victims of such offences and adequate relief and rehabilitation in the un- for matters connected therewith or fortunate event of atrocities taking place. We incidental there to, be taken into con- have kept all these provisions not only on the sideration.'’ 65 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. o f SRAVANA 23,1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 66

SHRi RAM RATAN RAM (Hajipur): Mr. historical, social and economic rea- Chairman, Sir, first of all, I would like to sons. congratulate the Prime Minister and also the Welfare Minister, Dr. Rajendra Kumari Bajpai, Because of the awareness created for going ahead with this very progressive amongst the Scheduled Castes and Bill, after the lapse of forty years of our the Scheduled Tribes through spread independence. of education, etc, they are trying to assert their rights and this is not being taken very kindly by the others. When Just now, our respected Welfare Minis- they assert their rights and resist prac- ter has mentioned about the dream of Ma- tices of untouchability against them or hatma Gandhi. No doubt, the dream of demand statutory minimum wages or Mahatma Gandhi is going to be fulfilled after refuse to do any bonded and forced the lapse of forty years of independence. labour, the vested interests try to cow them down and terrorise them. When So far as the question of atrocities, the Scheduled Castes and the Sched- tortures, land grabbing, rape and whatso- uled Tribes try to preserve their self- ever is incorporated in this Bill, is concerned, respect or honour of their women, they it has been going on for centuries after become irritants for the dominant and centuries; it is not that it is just coming up the mighty. Occupation and cultivation today. It has been there for the last so many of even the government allotted land centuries. by the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes is resented and more I would like to congratulate the Prime often these people become victims of Ministerand also the Welfare Minister—who attacks by the vested interests". has got the motherly affection for the members of the Scheduled Castes and the Sched- So, all these details are here. No doubt, uled Tribes—for bringing forward this unique this Bill is very unique. There is nothing left Bill. With this unique Bill, no doubt, the out in this Bill. Even a slightest point is not left members of the Scheduled Castes and the out, so far as the question of prevention of Scheduled Tribes will have some relief. I the atrocities and the crime is concerned. would like to thank Dr. Rajendra Kumari Bajpai for this. Before I go ahead—as the But what is it that was not there in the hon. Minister has said just now—I would like Indian Penal Code by which action could not to read the Statement of Objects and Rea- be taken but the main things is one the civil sons, which says: side—the executive and the police are not really very sincere to implement these “Despite various measures to improve measures and go ahead with the very object the socio-economic conditions of the and vision of the Government. That is the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled whole question. We have already enacted Tribes, they remain vulnerable. They so many Acts but the whole question is till are denied number of civil rights. They today the judiciary is silent on this matter. It are subjected to various offences, takes years and years for a case to get indignities, humiliations and harass- settled. Do you think these poor people can ment. They have, in several brutal afford to pursue the cases for years and incidents, been deprived of their life years? They cannot afford to do so with the and property. Serious crimes are result the offenders get scot free and thereby committed against them for various our people are put to a tot of harassment. No 67 S.C. mndS.T. (Pnv. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) BUI 68

[Sh. Ram Ratan Ram] A separate advocate will also be there. Everything has been provided n this Bill. Bui doubt, this Act will give some benefit and there is no mention about action against relief to our Members but I want to touch the such police officers. That is what I wanted to basic point. Whenever a crime, atrocity, tor- bring to the notice of the hon. Minister. ture, etc. is committed against the members of the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes Everything is mentioned in detail in this first of all they have to go to the police station Bill. But so far as the question of externment to lodge an FIR. Here in this Act nothing has is concerned, the option has been given to been mentioned about the police officers. the offender. On page 6, it has been said: Crimes, atrocities, tortures, etc. are there but when they go to the police station the police “Where the Special Court is satisfied, officers there refuse to record the FIR. What upon a complaint or a police report that is the way out for this? What action do we a person is Ikely to commit an offence propose to take against those police officers under Chapter II of this Act in any area who are still silent on the matter? In that included in 'Scheduled Areas’ or tribal respect I would have been grateful to the areas', as referred to in article 244 of hon. Minister if some way had been found the Constitution, it may, by order in out to curb such police officers as well. Now writing, direct such person to remove no case can stand unless an FIR is there and himself beyond the limits of such area, the police report is there. Our people go to by such route and within such time as the police station. The police officers there may be specified in the order, and not refuse to register the FIR. On the other hand to return to that area from which he our people are put to difficulty by being was directed to remove himself for accused that they are making a false state- such period, not exceeding two years, ment. So our people are afraid of going to the as may be specified in the order." police station. They rather prefer to tolerate the inhuman treatment. My point is that option has been given to the man who is going to commit a crime or MR, CHAIRMAN: May I draw the hon. who has already committed a crime. Will the Member's attention to Clause 4 of the Bill? man, who has been asked by the court to remove himself, carry out the order or not? SHRl RAM RATAN RAM: Mr. Chair- That question has to be considered. Why man, my point is will my people go to the should an option be left to the criminal? police to lodge the FIR and aiso will the Suppose such person does go from the area police officers there be sincere enough to as defined, what is the guarantee that he will take note of that? There are provisions even not come again and commit the offence? in the IPC. My point is what action you Such lacunae are there. propose to take against such police officers who refuse to record the FIR and on theother hand put our people to harassment and I am very thankful to the hon. Minister torture. They go to the police station. They for having brought forward such a progres- are asked to sit there for one one or two days. sive Bill after 40 years of our independence No action is taken. So, what action has been for the welfare and protection of people proposed to be taken against such police belonging to the Scheduled Castes and officers? There should be a remedy to tackle Scheduled Tribes. Our people are getting such a situation. A special court will not education, ft is a marvellous and unique Bill. doubt be there. Our prosecutor will be there. We are happy and satisfied. But still there 69 S.C. andS.T. (Prw. of SRAVANA 23.1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 70 are some lacunae. Some options have been lodged after the offences like murder, rape, given which should not be there. etc. were committed, as mentioned in this Act. But whole question is about the wit- So far as the question of casting of vote nesses. The court will have to proceed ac- is concerned, what is the remedy? Booth- cording to the witnesses. The court cannot capturing is still there. Our people are not hang anybody simply on my saying, as a allowed to cast their votes in favour of the member of a Scheduled Caste or a Sched- candidates whom they tike. Separate booths uled Tribe, that my daughter has been raped are there. Booths are also set up in the or my son has been murdered by this man or localities of the Scheduled Castes and Sched- that man. The Court of Law cannot convict a uled T rib e s . Since I come from the tribal person like that. So, witness is necessary. area. I know that the tribal population is Wherefrom will the witness come? That Is concentrated much more than the Sched- my point. Some torture is going on by some uled Castes. The Scheduled Castes are not persons who still cannot be influenced. They that much concentrated as the tribals. And still terrorise the people by saying that if they that is why, Government was kind enough to go to the court as witnesses, none will be create booths for the Scheduled Castes in allowed to remain in the village, all of them every locality so that people can exercise will be burnt or murdered. No doubt, there is their franchise. Inspite of the fact that there action taken. Even if there is any apprehen- are booths in every locality and village, there sion, our people will go to the court or the are goondas persons who bribe and do not police station and report by saying that an allow people to caste their votes. There is no apprehension is there. And action will be doubt that remedy is there in this Bill. But I definitely taken by this Act. But a sort of fear would like to point out to the Minister that is there in the minds of people. People are remedy is also possible by appointing a afraid. When my whole village gets burnt and police officer when the question of aduK when we will not survive, what will the court franchise comes. I would like to say that do? This sort of feeling is there among the some police arrangement must be made. people. We have to look into this aspect also. But at the same time, I have got an appre- The Government cannot go into all these hension about the police off icers. The police details. They cannot post a Magistrate for officers are there to create offences them- every door or every village. We have to find selves. They train the criminals They ask some ways so that the minds of our people the criminals to commit crimes. So, more are free from such weaknesses and fear. Alt Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe offi- those people who come and frighten and cers should be appointed and posted at the threaten people will have to be set right. This police stations and unless our people are aspect will have to be looked into. We cannot posted at the police station itself and made depend on the Government all the time that the officer-in-charge, I do not think that the they would do everything for us. We have to objective of the Government will be fulfilled do something ourselves also. Of course, the by the Act since the power is in their hands. Bill as brought forward by the hon. Minister Is At the very initial stage, people will have to go very unique and marvellous and I would like the police station to report the crime. Unless to express my thanks for the same. this is done, nobody can go to the court, whether K Is a special court or whatever court I would like to make one more point it may be. The question of going to court regarding the grabbing of land. The Govern- comes later on. First of all, one has to go the ment was very kind to allot land to our pofce station to report. Somehow our people landless people. Most of our people are have gone to the police station to have FIRs landless, and bonded labourers in the v i- 71 S. C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) Bill 72

[Sh. Ram Ratan Ram] can have faith and confidence that something is going to be done for us. lages. Though the land had been allotted to these poor people, in many cases ft has With these words, I conclude and would been grabbed from them and it is a very big like to convey my heartiest thanks to the problem to restore the possession to them. Prime Minister as also the Welfare Minister Though the Bill deals and takes care of the for bringing towards this Bill, which would various problems relating to the bonded and definitely provide relief to the poor people. landless labourers and grabbing of land by unauthorised people, yet it would require a lot of effort to put these provisions into prac- [ Translation] tice. By this Central Act, we are going to give protection to these poor people throughout the country, but at the same time, in many SHRI GANGA RAM (Firozabad): Mr. matters we have to depend on the State Chairman, Sir, the Scheduled Castes and administration. This legislation will be appli- Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of atrocities) cable throughout the country, and the State Bill, 1989 moved by the hon. Minister of Government should be very sincere and Social Welfare is the culmination of deep honest in implementing it and particularly, studies made on the problem process of they must take care of the scheduled castes which was started 4 to 5 years ago. During and scheduled tribes so far as the land this period, the hon. Minister had several problem is concerned. We have given land rounds of discussion with the hon. Members to the landless people and most of these of Parliament and organised seminars and people have been dispossessed from the conventions of the representatives of the land, and the possession has not been re- Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes stored to them. They have to go to the court to interact with them about the difficulties of law. How many of our people have got being faced by them. This is not only an enough money to go to the court of law? Of exhaustive Bill but an improved one also as course, the provision is there that you will it contains all the good provisions of the finance our people for this. In fact, these earlier laws and the subject. Therefore, she innocent people are afraid of going to the deserves all praise for introducing this Bill. court Thought, this problem has been definitely dealt with very nicely and adequately After 40 years of independence, a con- in this Bill, it is very difficult to restore the crete step has been taken to prevent the possession of the land, allotted to these atrocities on the people belonging to Sched- people, once they are dispossessed of it. uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes who The law is there, the magistracy is there, the constitute 25 crore of the total population of officers are there, yet we are not getting the the country, ft was Mahatma Gandhi who in required protection. I do not think the special 1932 had staked his life to make these courts will ever go the spot to restore pos- castes as an integral part of the Indian soci- session of the land to these people. ety and he also did a lot for their betterment Words fall short to describe the efforts of Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru and Dr. Baba Saheb In this context, I would like to suggest Ambedkar in ameliorating the lot of these that the cases relating to the land problem as poor sections of our society and infusing the also atrocities on these people should not feeling of self-respect among them. I would take more than thirty days; these should be like to quote what Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru said disposed of within that period. Only then, we about Dr. Ambedkar. 73 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. o f SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 74

[English] ent machinery of the Government. This reminds me of a few tines of a couplet of a "I imagine that the way he will be poet:- remembered most will be as a symbol of revolt against all the oppressive 'Kitne Badal Baras Rahe Hain, Phir forces and features of Hindu society. Bhai He rebelled against something against Paudhe Taras Rahe Hain, which all should and ought to rebel and we have in face rebelled in various Yahi Chaman Ko Acharaj Bhari, Pani degrees.” Kahan Chala Jata Hai?"

[Translation] It is a pity that despite several measures After going through this Bill, it appears taken by the Government, all these facilities that the hon. Minister and for that matter the have not reached the rural areas at the grass Government of India brought this Bill with a root level. We must find out the reasons for view to giving a warning to the oppressors, this. Besides enacting this legislation we tyrants, and who exploit the poor in order to must also consider the effective implemen- remove social inequality. tion of measures taken for their upliftment because atrocities are closely inter-related The hon. Minister has explained in de- to their upliftment. tail the objects of moving this Bill in the Hose. The Acts and laws made till date on the I do remember that during the Janata subject, mainly the Removal of Untouchabil- Party rule, when I was in Lucknow, a deci- ity Act, 1955 and the Protection of Civil sion was taken to withdraw reservation facil- Rights Act, 1987 could not be proved effec- ity for SC/ST. However the Government of tive. All of us agree that the implementation the Janata Party was dismissed that very of these Acts have been very poor. evening thereby saving the helpless poor. On coming to power, the Congress Party not A number of schemes have been only continued the policy of reservation, but launched for upliftment and development of also implemented it effectively. Recently, the people belonging to Scheduled Castes the young hon. Prime Minister has tried his and Scheduled Tribes and weaker section of best to clear the backlog of reserved vacan- society which constitute 25 per cent of the cies very earnestly. For this the hon. Prime total population of the country. The credit for Minister and the hon. Minister of Social the schemes such as 20 point programme, Welfare both deserve to be congratulated. IRDP, NREP, Jawahar Rozgar Yojana, This created great fervour and enthusiasm Special Component Plan and the Scheduled among the poor all over the country, espe- Castes and the Scheduled Tribes Financial cially the constitutional amendment Bills of Corporation goes to none other than the the Panchayati Raj and the Nagarpalika Congress Party. During the stewardship of have infused great confidence in the people. the hon. Minister, Central Government has Under Panchayati Raj system, reservation set up a separate Financial Development for them has been given upto the grass root Corporation for these sections, whose juris- level only. diction runs throughout the country. Indira Awas Yojana and many other schemes were Many people do not understand the also launched, but unfortunately they could meaning of reservation. I would like to ex- not be effectively implemented by the pres- plain its meaning before the House. We keep 75S. C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14, 1989 Atrocities) Bill 76

[Sh. Ganga Ram] fore I go into them, I would like to refer to the last report of the Scheduled Castes and on demanding reservation in appointment Scheduled Tribes Commission regarding and promotion in services and in allotment of atrocities. Commission has stated, which I gas agencies, etc. Explaining the meaning quote. of reservation. Dr. Ambedkar had stated that the reservation had been made for social [English] upliftment of the people who had been subjected to social discrimination for thousand “A review of the available atrocity data of years and in order to achieve the goal, for the years 1982 to 1984 presents a some sort o discrimination against some somewhat disturbing trend. The overall people would have to be dono. That discrimi- number of cases of atrocity against the nation can be termed as reservation for Scheduled Castes that had declined which down from Mahatma Gandhi to all the from 15051 in 1981 to 14,847 in 1983, leaders of the present generation ar trying to recorded an increase to 16,586 in 1984. achieve in right earnest. In 1987, the highest number of atrocity cases was reported from Madhya The opposition has done nothing in this Pradesh (6128) followed by Uttar direction except making hue and cry. The Pradesh (4200), Bihar (1845) and Ra- House is the witness to their behaviour and jasthan (1648). These States together sincerity shown during the last four years with Tamil Nadu (489), Gujarat (690) when they raised the issue of Bofors only and Maharashtra (579) among them- and nothing else. Opposition never discussed selves accounted for about 95 per cent the issues pertaining to the poor and on the of the cases of atrocities reported dur- other hand wasted time of the House. They ing the year under review." do not know against whom they are levelling charges. They are levelling charges against [Translation] the person who is trying to anchor the ship of the country from the turbulent sea. To them This has been stated by the Commis- I can say, "Turn Sahil wale kya jano, yeh sion. The report of the Commissioner for tufan kaun uthata hai, yeh kishti kaun dubota Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes for hai." It is the opposition which is raising the year 1986 is also available now. At pres- storms to drown the ship which is being ent Shri B.G. Sharma is the Commissioner. anchored by our leader. Therefore, under He has made an indepth studies of the the present conditions, neither we nor the problem throughout the country and his report people have any expectations from the is before us. As regards atrocities, total num- opposition parties. The poor people are ber of serious crimes committed in 1986 has looking towards the Congress Party headed been given in the report. Earlier, only serious by the Hon. young Prime Minister only and crimes were treated as atrocities. Under the the hon. Minister of Social Welfare, who G.O. of the Ministry of Home Affairs, serious have political will and the determination to crime includes murder under section 302 of act upon. The present Bill to stop atrocities is IPC, greivousty hurt under sections 324 and bold and praise-worthy, though many pro- 376 IPC, rape under section 376 IPC, arson grammes are already in progress. under section 436 IPC and some other serious crimes but in the present Bill, the hon. A little while ago, Shri Ram Ratan Ram, Minister has made the definition of the seri- who is a vetern Memberof the H^usepo. Med ous crimes more exhaustive. The Commis- out some short comings in t*ve Bill. But be- sioner for the Scheduled Castes and the 77 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of SRAVANA 23,1911 {SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 78

Scheduled Tribes in his report has stated Jahangirabad. Deoli, Sadupur etc. I would that in 1986 alone, as many as 15416 seri- like to tell about Deoli incident which occured ous crimes, earlier used to be known as in 1982 in which as many as 23 persons were atrocities, were committed. Out of them, as massacred. Two main accused named many as 3945 crimes were committed against Santosha and Radhe were not allowed to be the people belonging to the Scheduled Tribes. arrested on behest of the then Chief Minister In our country, there are 1085 Scheduled of Uttar Pradesh who is the leader of oppo- Castes and 639 Scheduled Tribes. As re- sition today and is leading them. He helped gards their population in the country, popu- those accused and made them surrendered lation of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled in the courts onfy. This ghastly crime was Tribes are about 15 crore and 10 crore committed in 1980-81 and the case is still respectively. Atrocities have also been pending in the court. The case is being get committed in the same proportion against delayed by big zamindars and feudal lords them. The causes of atrocities as pointed out who have been helping them. Not only this, by the Commissioner and the hon. Minister Santosha filed even nomination for the post are cent per cent correct. In the object and of Pardhan from the jail itself. They are reason of the Bill, it has been correctly stated providing protection to those criminals. that the atrocities are committed on them People of Janata Dal are providing proteo because feudal elements in the society do tion to persons having criminal’s record. I not tolerate that the poor people should live think that if such people come in power what with honour and peace in the society. The benefit they will provide to Scheduled Castes poor, the Scheduled Castes and the Sched- and Scheduled Tribes. The future of the uled Tribes wish to lead a peaceful and Harijans will become bleack if they come in happy life in this independent India, without power. being forced to bear insults. In the objects of the Bill, it has been accepted that ihey are Hon. Minister has rightly said that bonded subjected to atrocities. This Bill has been labour is one of causes of atrocities on them. brought forward with a view to stop atrocities An act to abolish bonded labour system was on them so that they may lead a respectable passed in 1976 on the initiative of our leader life. This is the need of the hour. Even on late Shrimati Indira Gandhi but bonded la- moral ground, nobody has got any right to bour still exists in our country in one form or insult one. ft can be observed from the state- the other. In a conference, a high police ment of objects and reasons attached to the official had expressed his views that political Bill that maximum atrocities are committed awareness among weaker sections, Sched- in Madhya Pradesh followed by U P., Bihar uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, for which and Rajasthan. After a deep study of the credit goes to our Party, was one of the matter as to why Madhya Pradesh is on the reasons for atrocities on them. The Con- top of the list, I came to conclusion that gress Party has infused a sense of self- feudalism was the sole reason for it. This respect among them. Now when their self- area has been under the control of feudal respect is hurt, conflicts arise and atrocities lords, zamindars and Nawabs for a pretty are committed. Their women are raped and long time. There were several small princely entire village is burnt. I have seen in Uttar States who used to force the people to work. Pradesh that atrocities are committed merely Their outlook was so feudal that in order to for such reasons. Bihar Government faced a sat ,/y their false ego, these people oid not lot of difficulties in implementing provisions allow common men to sit even on the cots of Minimum Wages Act. People who commit before them. Mostly incident?, of atrodties atrocities do not give minimum wages to have occured mainly in North India e.g. these poor people. The Commissioner for 79 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) Bill 80

[Sh. Ganga Ram] ported. It is true that different State Govern- ments have appointed special I.Gs and D.I.Gs Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes for this purpose. But it would have been has mentioned in his report that farm labour- better if a provision is made specifically in ers are given 5 kilograms of flour and some this Bill itself. Of course, a provision has quantity of rice as daily wages or Rs. 8.50 in been made in section 4 with regard to atroci- cash and it is also not known if it is actually ties to be committed by the public servants, paid or not, whereas an amount not less than still there is a need to look into this matter. Rs. 18.50 a day has been prescribed as the Minimum Wage under the Minimum Wages I would like to say one thing about the Act. Demand of minimum wages is one of onus of proving the crime. You should think the major causes of atrocities and harass- about it. Under section 5 of Prevention of ment to Harijans. Corruption Act and section 161 of I.P.C, onus of proving innocence lies on the ac- Many aspects of the problem have been cused. Similarly, onus of proving innocence covered in this Bill. However, I would like to should be laid on the accused under this Bill. draw the attention of Hon. Minister towards In that case, he will have to prove that he has some of points about which he has just made not committed atrocities or he has not abused a mention. It is good that a provision has or insulted the complainant, then it will be a been made to set up special courts which great thing. People will get justice. I welcome was a long standing demand. In this regard, and support this Bill provisions of which are I would like to submit that cases of atrocities well considered. should be disposed of in summary trials, particularly in view of the fact that a number I would like to conclude my speech with of years are wasted in investigation of the recital of a few lines of a poem of Shri case and justice is not provided to them, as Rangji:- has been said by Shri Ram Ratan Ram. More the delay, more the injustice is done to uAb N Sahan Hogi Bebasi ki Yatna, them. While drawing attention towards sec- Ant swayam kar raha srijan ki sadhana, tion 4 of the Bill, the hon. Minister has stated Aadmi ka kal aaj aadmi bana, that if public servant is found involved in it, he Ek-dusare se aaj ho rahi ghrina will also be punished. I would like to say in Aadmi ko aadmi ka pyar chahrye this connection that police officers also Aaj desh ko naye vichar chahiye" commit atrocities on Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The Hon. Minister should and think as to how he will tackle this problem of involvement of police officials in commis- “Vartman ki ore dekhta sioning atrocities on these classes. aaj Bhavishya Mahan, Kya Jane kis khyan ho jaye 14.18 hr*. Navyug ka Nirman-

[MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair) By moving this Bill, Government has done a very good work. I hope that 25 per Their F.I.Rs will be written by the police cent people of this country will get relief from officers. What provision has been made for this Bill, their problems will be solved and this? The Government should make special their difficulties and troubles will be reduced. arrangements for the areas from where a large number of cases of atrocities are re- With these words, I support the Bill. 81 S.C. and S. T. (Prov. of SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) BUI 82

SHRl HARISH RAW AT (Almora): Hon. but they were not reported because the Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would liketothank the victims did not want to go to police stations to Minister for Welfare for moving this Bill. This lodge reports. If at all some of them went to Bill is a warning to the people who kept on police stations to lodge reports, their reports commiting atrocities on the people belong- were not lodged by the police. When Con- ing to Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes gress Government was formed in 1980, a by taking undue advantage of some lacunae new awareness was created among Har- in the law. I feel that the Hon. Minister has ijans and Tribals who began to feel secure. consolidated the various offences so as to They again began to resist atrocities perpe- include them in this Bill. This Bill has been trated on them in the villages. drafted after indepth studies and careful consideration. I would like to extend my I feel that the drawbacks and loopholes thanks to all those people who have assisted in IPC and criminal Procedure code will be in drafting this Bill and consolidating the list plugged to a great extent after enactment of of atrocities, etc. this Bill. Now accused will not take undue advantage of the loopholes to escape pun- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, laws were ishment for the crime. These drawbacks already there for giving protection to the have been removed. people belonging to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes but the people who were Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has all entrusted responsibility to implement the along been the policy of our Government law, belonged to the class who were aversed and the Congress Party that the weaker to it. That is why the law was not imple- section should be protected. Even during the mented properly. This is the reason why we days of freedom struggle, Congress Party have been raising this issue from time to time was the champion of the cause of weaker in this House. sections. Removal of untouchability was a part of our national struggle. When Gandhiji I am in complete agreement with Shri talked about freedom from the British rule, Gariga Ram that with the awareness among he also talked about removal of untouchabil- Harijans, atrocities on Harijans have also ity and religious discrimination. The Con- increased. I would even like to add that gress Party has inherited these ideals as its whenever a Government comes into power legacy. Voice has always been raised against which thinks about the welfare of the Har- those who commit atrocities. It is the reason ijans and wants to give protection to them why our Government always thinks in this either at the Centre or in the States, incidents direction. So far as necessity of enactment of of atrocities increase as Harijans and Tribals laws are concerned, necessary laws have resist atrocities in the hope that the present been enacted to check atrocities on Harijans Government is benefactor and protector of and weaker sections,* even then atrocities on/ their rights. them have not stopped because of economic base of the people belonging to weaker A debate was held in 1982 in this House sections, Harijans and Tribals is very weak. on atrocities on Harijans. At that time Mem- No atrocity is committed on the person who bers belonging to Janata Party expressed is economically sound. He can go to the view that incidents of atrocities on Harijans court and seek protection. He can even had gone down during the period from 1977 resist but the Harijans and Tribals who are to 1980 when they were in power at the landless and unable to go to the court for Centre, whereas the fact was otherwise remedy are subjected to atrocities. Even Atrocities were committed in greater degree police does not head to their complaints. He 83 S. C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) Bill 84

[Sh. Harish Rawat] the backlog of reserved vacancies. The Hon. Prime Minister has made a major contribu- has no time to register their complaints. tion to the upliftmentof the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes through the Jawahar Government has taken several steps in Rozgar Yojna. The Bill under consideration this direction. Very recently, Jawahar Rozgar will also go a long way in solving the prob- Yojana has been introduced and represen- lems of the Scheduled Castes and Sched- tation of Harijans and weaker sections has uled Tribes as is evident from its provisions. been provided in panchayats. This been done because the Government wants to Two of the provisions of this Bill are very make these sections economically self-reli- appropriate. I would like to submit the social ant and to provide representation to them at problems of the Scheduled Castes and the grass-root level. In this way, they will be Scheduled Tribes in the rural areas and able to express their views and raise their expect that the Hon. Prime Minister will voice freely without any fear. Unless the provide assistance in solving them. Apart weaker sections will be given ownership from these problems, the primary problem is right of land, they will not be able to resist the that of land. The 20 Point Programme Coor- atrocities being committed on them. There- dination Committee was constituted during fore, I would like to request the Government the tenure of Shrimati Indira Gandhi. Lease through you that there is need to allot land to Deeds of land weie given through these every Harijan under Land Reforms Act so committees but they were not given actual that he is able to build his house on the land possession of their land. What is the reason of his own and cultivate it for agricultural behind it. In this connection, the work of the purposes. This is the primary duty of the Madhya Pradesh Government is laudable. Government. Those who do not own agricul- The former Chief Minister of the State, Shri tural land should be provided other means of Arjun Singh and the Present Chief Minister livelihood. The Government and the whole Shri Motilal Vora have done praiseworthy society should think in this direction so that work. A committee by the name of 'Adhikar the Harijans and the Tribals can become Abhiyan Samlttee’ has been constituted there seff-reliant. I think this will enable us to and I am also a member of this committee. control the atrocities to a large extent and to This committee has been doing commend- solve the problem. With these words, I sup- able work. Those persons who were given port this Bill and thank the hon. Minister of lease deeds for land 15 to 20 years ago have State of the Ministry of Welfare, the Hon. been given actual possession of their land. Prime Minister and the Government in this The Collectors and Tehsildars in the State regard. have been told that if the lease deed holders are not given possession of land, action will SHRI BAPULAL MALVIYA (Shajapur): be taken against them. They were also told Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Sched- that if the Department of Revenue is inca- uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Preven- pable of carry ing out this task, the assistance tion of Atrocities) Bill. Today, the hon. Prime of Police should be taken. The results have Minister has assured that all the reserved been very encouraging. 75 per cent of the vacancies shall be filled up within a maxi- lease deed holders have got possession of mum period of three months and ceaseless their land and only 25 per cent have still to efforts are being made to fulfil this pledge. get it. I think they will also get their posses- This is a very significant step. It is for the first sion shortly. Similar committees should be time since independence that the Hon. Prime constituted all over the country, tf a piece of Minister has taken the initiative of clearing land belonging to a Harijan happens to be 85 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of SRAVANA 23. 1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 86 located in between two plots of land belong- Prevention of Untouch ability Act has also ing to an affluent person, his piece of land is not proved effective. It is necessary to make forcibly occupied and he is evicted with the this law effective. During the Janata wave in result that he is compelled to sell it off. As per 1977, a Harijan Congress worker was much my experience, if a Harijan has a piece of harassed by the BJP workers. He was made land in the village and it is also fertile, the to wear the clothes of a woman and made to caste Hindus would entrap him by turning dance on the streets. Such atrocities should him into an alcohol addict and would provide be checked by framing necessary legisla- money tor purchasing the same and in this tion. Solar as I think, social programmes are way, they would eventually rob his piece of based on social perspective.... land. As in the case of Adivasis, there should be restrictions on the sale of land belonging SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN to the Harijans as well. There should be a law (Barmer): Provisions have been made in to the effect that the land cannot be occupied this Bill. forcibly. The land belonging to the Harijans are not registered with the result that they SHRI BAPULAL MALVIYA: I am put- are often evicted by those to whom they owe ting forward one suggestion. You will ob- money. The hon. Minister has stated that serve that Harijans are discriminated against 3000 cases of atrocities have come to their on social occasions and at public places. notice. Besides these cases, there are sev- They are not allowed to sit at the same place eral cases which are not reported because with the Caste Hindus. If the Caste Hindus sit the poor Harijans are prevented by the vil- on the mats, the Harijans are told to sit lage musclemen from filing their complaints somewhere else. K the Harijans sit on the to the police in this regard. In this way many mats, the caste Hindus sit on raised plat- atrocities are committed on them, but the form. This kind of discrimination which is rich and influential people in the village do practised everywhere should be removed. not allow them to report the matter to the Atrocities are committed on women but they Police and even harm them physically. Some are prevented from reporting them. Much Harijans came to me with their complaints discrimination is practised in the rural areas. and they informed me that they had to take The Harijan children are not allowed to sit a separate and a longer route because they along with the children of other castes. In the feared that the musclemen in their villages tea-dubs of the teachers, the Harijan teach- would prevent them from going to lodge the ers are not included. The messengers also complaint. FIRs in this regard should be filed do not fetch tea for them nor do they wash in the local police stations but they are un- their clothes. Consequently, the Harijan able to do so and they have to approach the members of the staff refuse to become S.P. for this purpose. These days the politi- members of the staff tea-club. These are cal leaders and even the Police officers have minor problems which should be removed. I little say with the result that cases are not think, the Government should look into this registered. Only these influential people hold aspect of practising discrimination even in sway and everybody is at their mercy. This is places which are open to all. There are a very big problem. Presently, police sta- private temples in rural areas and the Har- tions have been set up exclusively for the ijans are not allowed to worship in these Harijans. But in these police stations also, temples. The newly-wed Harijan couples the situation is same. The policemen who cannot enter into any temple and offer their register their complaints demand bribes and prayers to the deity. Therefore, I would like to in this way atrocities are committed on the suggest that measures should be taken to Harijans. ft has also been observed that the build separate temples for Harijans in the 87 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) BHI 88

[Sh. Bapulal Malvrya] Sir, man does not live by bread alone. He essentially needs dignity, he essentially Harijan colonies in order to avoid any con- needs a social existence, social recognition, frontation. With these words, I thankthe hon. social respect as a human being. Therefore, Minister for moving such a magnificant Bill I congratulate the hon. Minister for bringing and I would like to offer my support to it. this Bill before us. ft has been overdue. We have long contented ourselves with an illu- [English] sion that by passing the Protection of Civil Rights Act, we have done all that was needed, SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan- that by putting in beautiful phrases in the ganj): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, man’s inhu- Constitution we have done all that was manity to man has no limits. Indeed no needed. I am happy that the Government species of life on this earth is as cruel to itself has realised that atrocities need to be dealt asthe homo-sapiens. This morning we woke with a firm hand, with all the power that is at up to the horrifying news of Gohpur, which is the command of a civilised State, with all the the latest case of atrocities. But my mind feelings and emotions that we can bring to goes back to a few years ago when I visited bear on this despicable situation as human a Harijan village in Andhra Pradesh, where beings and as citizens of a country which everybody had been terrorised out of the swears by Mahatma Gandhi. village, except a lone woman, an old woman who had lost her mind and was loitering These atrocities cut across the political through the streets with a blank face and complexion of the State Governments and, there was a dog following her. I could see the therefore, one should not look at it as a party charred remains of rice in the granaries of question. It is a shame for the country. It is a various houses which had been turned into national problem and we have got to look at carbon. Madam, these atrocities are not only it and deal with it as a national problem. directed against a community, they are directed against the nation, they are directed The other day a case was referred to against humanity, and it is with this sense here in the House, of a Harijan being forced and purpose that we have got to fight them to eat human waste. I came across the other out...(Interruptions). day a case in which a citizen of free I nd ia... (Interruptions) SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS (Tezpur): When did that incident take place in Andhra AN HON. MEMBER: It was a place in Pradesh? Karnataka where Janata regime was there. SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: I also SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: Around came across a similar case of a Harijan only 1981 or 1982.1 had a meeting of the National recently, who had been forced to drink urine Executive of the Janata Party there at that in Uttar Pradesh in the very constituency of time and then I visited that place. the Prime Minister and I have brought that case to the notice of the Prime Minister. Not SHRI BIPIN PAL DAS: What is the that I am holding the Prime Minister respon- name of that village? sible for that case of atrocity. Far from It. But what I am trying to say is that this is a social and a national malaise which cuts across SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: I have political barriers and, therefore, we have got forgotten the name. I will give it to the Madam to unite here in this House to fight against this Minister some time. evil. 89 S.C. and S. T. (Prov. of SRAVANA 23, 1911 {SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 90

Here is a list of atrocities committed in consideration that in every district let there 1987 and 1988. The figures are here. I do not be one thana specially for recording the know how far the figures represent the truth cases of atrocities and it should be manned because many of these figures are only from top to bottom by the weaker sections partial truth. It is only where a person finally only. Just have one thana, call it by whatever gets across the many administrative, social name you tike because the poor illiterate and legal barriers to record his anguish and Harijans and Adivasis and weaker sections his pain and his shame that they appear here are not permitted access to the normal thana. in the reply. But even as it is, they are rather They are shoved away. They are treated as revealing. I have got the figures for Bihar, sub-humans and they are not permitted to Gujarat, Kerala, Madhya Pradesh, Rajast- record their anguish. Whereas in such a han and Uttar Pradesh. I have chosen all separate thana their pain and sufferings those which have recorded more than 500 shall be shared by the people in power and cases in a given year. There, six States they shall be humanely impelled to record alone account for 85% of the cases of atroci- these cases of atrocities and it is these ties recorded. I think some special effort has Thanas which should then be responsible to be made by the Central Government and for investigating these cases of atrocities. I would request the hon. Minister to draw the The thana alone will not do. The political attention of the Chief Ministers of these parties casting aside all the differences, and States to make a special study as to why is other social organisations, all those who it that these State are responsible for so speak in the name Gandhiji and Nehru must many atrocities. Therefore some very spe- organise themselves into Committees for cial methods are necessary to fight this evil the protection of civil rights at district level, at in those States. the town level so that any Harijan, any Adi- vasi, any member of the weaker section who Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I would like to feels aggrieved can go to them and seek place a few suggestions before the hon. their learned assistance and seek their expert Minister. It is absolutely necessary that the help. Let these voluntary institutions be given weaker sections like the 'Harijans’ and the full support by the Government. ‘Adivasis1 have due representation not only in the Police Force, but in the Intelligence Sir, I would like to suggest one thing machinery and in the Magistracy because which is not there in the Bill. Any person who the Police does not act by itself. It is all these is convicted of an act of atrocity as has been three agencies which together by their sins defined in this Act, should be disenfran- of omission and commission make such chised from voting, from standing as a can- atrocities possible. Therefore, I would plead didate in any elections in this country. He has with the hon. Minister to ensure that there is no right to commit an atrocity and then come due representation in allthese three branches up and demand a share in running the soci- and that not a single seat which is in the ety. Total disenfranchisement of any person reserved/quota remains unfilled. What is who has been convicted of any offence under more important is to have a composite pat- this Act including public service should be tern of deployment in the particular districts applied. I would like to draw the attention of which are atrocities prone. For example, in the hon. Minister to histor : judgement re- every thana’, in such areas, in every scheme cently by the Madras High Court, by the of deployment of the magistrates in these Justice Khadar. Of course it was given in a areas, in these districts, you must ensure different context. But the basic situation due representation of the weaker sections. I remains the same. His argument was that would suggest to the hon. Minister for her the State’s primary duty is to protect the life 91 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 AtrocitiesI BUI 92

[Sh. Syed Shahabuddin] possible to bring home the charge, to prove it in a Court of Law. Therefore, there must be and property of the citizen and if for some administrative punishment lor anybody who reason the Police system of the State fails, is negligent, who is found not to have acted the State is morally bound to compensate in time, who is found to have looked the other the citizen for the loss that he has suffered. way while the atrocities have been commit- Here in this Bill you talk about some compen- ted and atleast there should be a black mark sation, some relief and rehabilitation as a in his record. He should at least be subjected gesture of generosity. No. It should be taken to suspension. as a matter of right, as a matter of State obligation for the failure of its machinery for the failure to perform the duty that it is Sir, I fully support the view of Mr. Ganga supposed to exist for. Therefore, there must Ram that there should be a summary trial. be full compensation for all losses suffered, Merely a Special Court would not do. A and for loss of lives and injury you must have Special Court must have a summary proce- a prescribed scale as there is in the case of dure and a time-bound activity in order that Industrial Accident Act. Depending upon the these atrocities can be controlled. age of the person, the earning period ahead of him, his earning capacity, you work out a definite reasonable sum that he would have I am fully conscious of the fact that earned had he lived. Similarly in the case of violence and atrocities wilt continue to mount toss of property, there should be a compen- in our society because we are passing sation on the basis of full substitution, not through a stale of transition. People are that you give a Harijan a paltry sum of Rs. standing up and demanding their rights. 100/- to buy a few bamboos to re-erect his shelter. Whatever he has lost due to the People are asking for the minimum that are negligence of the State, due to the failure of due to them under the law of the land. They the machinery, must be fully compensated do not want anything more and yet for that on the basis of substitution. Substitution cost cry, they are punished. Even today, I have should be the criterion for all losses of prop- seen a report from Bihar where some Har- erty. Of course, punitive fine is mentioned ijans merely for the sin of asking for minimum there. But I would like to emphasize that the wages were fired upon one person was killed entire society is responsible for these atroci- and 30 others injured. Therefore, you have ties, those who commit them and also those to steel your nerves, if the State, is to exist as who remain silent spectators. Therefore, take a civilised State, you have got to gird up your the mohalla as a unit, take the panchayat as loins, you have to stand up to this challenge a unit or take the revenue village as a unit and you have got to take a full measure of the and let everybody contribute towards the punitive fine so that out of the punitive fine, situation of whatever power has been vested you can pay the compensation that I have in you by the people of India and bring it to just demanded. bear upon those mischievous elements who are bringing disgrace to the country until Gandhi’s dream is realised, until justice Sir, as far as the public servants are dawns in our society, until we learn to treat concerned, there is a lovely clause which I each other as human beings and no as welcome fully. They are subject to prosecu- them’ not as another group, but as human tion, but they must be punished even admin- beings and as common citizens of a free istratively because sometimes it may not be India. 93 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. o f SRAVANA 23, 1911 {SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 94

[ Translation] schemes. The Govt, is to see as to whether the schemes launched for the welfare of *SHRI HARIHAR SOREN (Keonjhar): Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Mr Deputy Speaker Sir, I rise to support the are effectively implemented or not, the Govt, Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes is to see as to whether funds earmarked (Prevention of Atrocities) Bill, Sir, 40 years under those schem es are properly utilised or have passed since we achieved independ- not. So far as my information is concerned, ence. The Govt, of India have taken a num- the officials who are put incharge of imple- ber of steps for the welfare of Scheduled menting various schemes for the socio- Castes and Scheduled Tribes. But, it is a economic development of Scheduled Castes matter of great regret that these people are and Scheduled Tribes are not doing their still neglected. They are still suppressed and duties honestly and sincerely. They are not oppressed by the upper caste people. So, able to provide benefits to all the beneficiar- this Bill will go a long way in protecting the ies. Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe from the atrocities. So, I welcome this Bill. The Similarly the officials who are supposed Honourable Minister, Smt. Bajpayeeji is to maintain law and order and to protect the looking after this Ministry. She has studied lives and property of the Scheduled Castes the problems of the Scheduled Castes and and Scheduled Tribes are not able to give Scheduled Tribes. Therefore, she has them due protection at the appropriate time. brought this Bill before the House. There are They are not able to check atrocities perpe- some good provisions in this Bill. But, mere trated on them (Scheduled Castes & Sched- passing of the Bill and making Act will not be uled Tribes). able to stop atrocities on Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. We have to find out 15.00 hrs. the root cause for the atrocities which are being perpetuated on them. H we make a If we will not be able to give due protec- proper analysis of it we will see that social, tion to the SCs & STs, the situation will economical and educationaJ backwardness further aggravate in future and it will be are the main reasons as to why atrocities are beyond control. Sir, I would like to say a word being perpetuated on them. The entire about the Reservation policy of the Govt. I Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe thank the Govt, for making reservation of population in the country is not educated. posts for SCs & STs. In the past the posts Due to their illiteracy, they are not able to reserved for SCs and STs were not being know many things which are going on in the filled by SCs and STs. on the plea of the non- country. Since the economic condition of availability of suitable candidates from among these people is not sound, they are not able them. I am grateful to the Govt, that special to get respectable status in the society. Of drives have been launched to clear the course, our Govt, have launched several backlog of employment of SC & ST candi- schemes for the upliftment of the Scheduled dates. This will protect the interest of the Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The Govt, candidates. In this context I would like to say want to enhance their status in the sodety by one thing. Sir, at some places we f ind t hat the conferring many economic benefits on them SC & ST candidates are able to secure the through various schemes. But the duty of the marks supposed to be secured by general Govt, will not be over by launching those candidate. That means they are qualified to schemes and by allocating funds under those get the posts reserved for general candi-

Translation of the speech originally delivered in Oriya. 95 S.C, and S. 7. (Prev. of AUGUST 14, 1989 Atrocities) Bill 96

[Sh. Harihar Soren] the society. Sir, our Govt, have drawn up various schemes for the upliftment of SCs dates. But H is seen that whatever best may and STs. Most of those schemes are being be their performance they are appointed implemented in the country. But it is regret- only against the posts reserved for them. If table that the State Govts, are not very we take this attitude then the upliftment of sincere in the effective implementation of SCs and Sts will not become possible. those schemes. Therefore I would like to urge upon the cenral Govt, to send neces- 15.01 hrs. sary instructions to the State Governments to implement those schemes with right ear- [SHRl SHARAD DIGHE in the Chair] nestness and sincerity. Because rt involves the upliftment of SCs and STs. Sir, you know the present situation in the county. At one place it is uttarkhand, at Sir, my second request is with regard to another place it is jharkhand, at some other the better administration in the tribal areas. place it is Bahujan Samaj Vadi and at some Some provisions have been made in this other place it is Bodo in the name of the regard in the 5th and 6th Schedules of our movements are rising their ugly head. I do Constitution. These provisions have been not support these movements. But we can- made to tackle the problems of tribals. Sepa- not reject the issue simply by saying that the rate administrative systems have been pro- movements are unlawful. What are the root vided in some tribal populated areas under causes of their movements? Is it a fact that the provisions made by the 6th Scheduled of the people involved in those movements are the Constitution. It is seen that the people being neglected since long, is it a fact that are living peacefully in those areas. They are they are being suppressed by the upper not being exploited by the upper caste people. caste people., if so, how will the Govt, protect The development process is taking place in them? How will the Govt, take action against full swing in those areas. The people living in the people who are exploiting them? All those areas are very much satisfied with the these factors should be studied very care- existing administration. But the situation in fully. If we will be able to stop atrocities, if we other tribal areas which are under 5th sched- will improve their economic conditions and if ule is different. The people have many griev- we will give them proper status in the society, ances. In order to help them getting the full they will never be involved in any kind of benefit of the various schemes which are movement. Atleast I know that the tribals are being implemented by the Govt, and in order simple and innocent and they are peace- to give them due justice it is very necessary loving people. So, we must provide them to bring all the tribal areas under the 6th protection and we must give them social Schedule and necessary administrative justice. The Honourable Minister an experi- system should be introduced in those areas. enced Minister. I request her to study the With these suggestions I thank you very burning problems of SCs and STs. Then she much and conclude my speech. should take immediate steps to tackle those problems. Otherwise you cannot cow down [English] them. Because 40 years after independence now a kind of awareness is being created SHRl DIGVkJAY SINGH (Rajgarh): Sir, among them. They know that due justice has I rise to support the BHI and congratulate our not been given to them in all these years. Prime Minister Shri Rajivji and our Welfare Therefore please find out someways to Minister Shrimati Bajpaiji for bringing this Bill remove their problems and restore peace in which, I hope, shall go a long w a y to c u rb the 97 S.C. and S. T. (Pr&v. of SRAVANA 23. 1911 {SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 98 atrocities on Scheduled Castes and Sched- tion is to a higher level and then only, we uled Tribes. shall be able to curb this. We have cut across by setting up special courts in this Bill. But Sir, it is unfortunate that in spite of giving that is not all. After all, he still has a right to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes appeal to the high court and the Supreme the constitutional protection and protecting Court. This itself will take years before the them under the Civil Rights Act 1955 and accused can be punished. The judicial struc- various provisions of Cr.P.C. and I.P.C., we ture today in this country. I am sorry to have been unable to curb the atrocities on state— is heavily loaded against the poor. SC and ST. We must realise that it is the Although we have provided for payment of structure which is coming in the way. We find travelling allowances and miscellaneous that the system is not responding to the expenses for witnesses and the victims, still needs of today and it is not solving the it is the duration of the actual crime commit- problem at the ground level and, that is why, ted and the punishment given which is detri- whenever we find a situation like this, we mental to such happenings occurring again again come back to bring in some kind of and again. This is why, I feel that it is time different law to make the penal provisions when the Government itself thought about more stringent. What is needed is a political the restructuring of the whole judicial proc- will at the State and district level so that the ess whereby the right to appeal is restricted. enforcing authority and the political masters take stringent action against those persons It is a very welcome sign that the provi- who are committing these atrocities on sions have been made to rehabilitate the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. victims of such atrocities to an extent possible. What is needed is that, as rightly I welcome the penal provisions made pointed out by Shahabuddinji, we have to fix against those officers who are negligent in the quantum of the rehabilitation and the their duty regarding the provisions made in compensation paid. Otherwise, it may differ this Bill. But I do not understand why the from State to State and according to the officers belonging to Scheduled Castes and whims and fancies of different persons. Scheduled Tribes have been exempted from these penal provisions. I feel that officers As I pointed out earlier, untouchability is and the public servants belonging to this an offence under the present law. But is it section of Scheduled Castes and the Sched- being enforced? Have we eradicated un- uled Tribes have a greater responsibility to touchability from our country? I am sorry to see that these penal provisions of this Bill state that we have not. Still in the villages we and the provisions of this Bill are faithfully have separate wells for Harijans, separate implemented because ultimately it is their temples for Harijans. Why have we not been kith and kin who are to be helped. I request able to take action against those persons the hon. Minister to consider and delete this who are practising untouchability in the rural provision. areas? I am sorry to say, a person of the stature of Sankaracharya of Puri openly I do not understand why, although after advocated untouchability through the Press making the penal provisions, we are not and he did not contradict that report. We monitoring the percentage of conviction in have not taken action against him. We want such cases. Simply booking them under the more Jayendra Saraswathis in this country - law and bringing them before the court is not the Sankaracharya of -Kanchi - who are the answer. We have to ensure, through a working for the uplift of the Harijans and close monitoring of such cases, that convic- working against untouchability. 99 S.C. andS.T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) Bit! 100

[Sh. Digvijay Singh] tribunals and manned by people belonging to the SC and ST or by persons who have a It is the responsibility of the caste Hin- definitely known leanings for the SC and ST. dus to see that atrocities are not committed Then only will we be able to implement against SC and ST people. We have to faithfully these land reforms. change our frame of mind and accept them as brothers. Then only will we be able to Today although we have fixed the mini- make progress on this issue. mum wages, they are not being given. Al- though we have fixed minimum wages. I I feel that some of the provisions made know from any experience, they are not are a little harsh. Simply throwing of waste in being given. Until and unless such things are front of the house of a Harijan has been monitored closely by some special commit- made a cognizable offence. Those people tees or by the land tribunals, we will not be who know the village closely would realise able to justify our intentions. that this would be a daily occurance. How many cases will you register? This would Land absorbing and land augmenting give way for the police off icers at Thane level technical innovations have to be made. You to harass people. So we have to reconsider would agree with me that most of the dis- this. Throwing of agriculture waste is not putes which arise in the rural areas are such an offence as could be made cogni- through non-payment of wages or poor zable; this could be deleted from the Act. payment of wages. The Government has to step in where we provide adequate work for I strongly support the stringent penal at leas about hundred days in a year. We are provisions made regarding the usurping and very happy, the Hon. Prime Minister Shri the wrongful occupation of the land allotted Rajiv Gandhi has come out with special to the SC and ST. There is ample scope for programmes under the Jawahar Rozgar this provision because we find that the land Yojana. The other point is political decen- allotted in the rural areas has been by and tralisation. Until we politically decentralise large taken away by the powerful people. It power and give power directly to the elected is there even in Madhya Pradesh. I should be representatives of the people, we will not be ashamed of myself to come from a State able to enforce these laws and all these where the highest atrocities take place in this programmes. country. We have take a very positive step in the State of Madhya Pradesh whereby Anotherthingisthegrass-root mobilisa- through a special programme of Adhikar tion of the Scheduled Castes and the Sched- Abhiyan, we have taken up restoration of uled Tribes and bringing about an aware- land to the title holders. You would be happy ness amongst them that they enjoy funda- to know that 62000 people who were not in mental rights under the Constitution, and possession of their land and were only hold- that they enjoy civil rights under the Civil ing Pattas has been given land under this Rights Act. Until and unless they know the programme. provisions of the Act, we will not be able to bring them up to the mainstream. The problem is more socio-economic than prohibitive or regulatory. We realise Administrative restructuring and plan- that 66% of the rural landless in this country ning from below is another feature which is are from SC. What is needed is mass ori- important. Shri Rajivji has rightly taken the ented agrarian reform, faithfully implemented initiative to decentralise the power to pan- and monitored by specially constituted land chayati raj and also provide work for the 101 S.C. and S. T. (Prey, o f SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) BUI 102 land toss. Now that we have taken the initia- giants Ifre Pandit Jawaharfal Nehru, Ma- tive, the ball is in the court of the State hatma Gandhi who have brought in a revolu- leaders - the politicians in the State capttals- tion in this country. Here, of course, what to implement these laws and regulations. remains will be eradicated by this Bill.

I would like to say a word about the SHRI P.M. SAYEED (Lakshadweep): tribals. We have a large tribal population and Mr. Chairman, Sir, I congratulate the hon. especially in my State of Madhya Pradesh, Minister for having brought this Bill before they are about 22.5%. The Jharkhand move- this House, ft Is a well thought out Bill. It deals ment has been going on for a very long time. with almost every aspect regarding the atroci- We have to give a serious thought to it. I ties committed against the Harijans and congratulate the hon. Home Minister for Advasis in our country. starting a dialogue with the Jharkhand leaders. What are they asking for? They want to As you know, we have passed many be the masters of their own destiny. What laws in this very House eradication of un- are they asking for? They are only asking for touchability, Civil Rights and many other self-rule. If we can give it to the Gorkhas of laws. But, why is It that the atrocities are on the Darjeeling, why cannot we give it to the the increase? My humble view is that, of late, tribals of the Central India? ft is a serious on account of the increase in the percentage thing which we have to consider with an of literacy and also of the improvement In the open mind. Let us not reject it outright After economic field, the Harijans and Adivasis all, you cannot deliver the goods at the are trying to assert their rights. Naturally, lowest level until and unless you have the they will assert their rights. Some old feudal, people's involvement in the system, people’s affluent, powerful, high-caste sections of our involvement in the delivery of the schemes, society will naturally resist with more vigour policies and the programmes. Therefore, I to see that the rights these communities faithfully urge upon the Minister to convey want to assert get defeated. When these my feelings to the hon. Prime Minister and to atrocities are going on in this country what the Home Minister to consider this very seri- are we do to do? The point I want to make is ously. that this Bill after having been passed should not meet the same fate as the earlier Acts PROF. N.G. RANGA (Guntur): Your like Eradication of (Jntouchability and Civil Chief Minister also. That is the real trouble. Rights had met with.

SHRI DIGVUAYA SINGH: Certainly, There are many salient features in the Sir. I have said it earlier. The ball is in the present Bill which is proposed to be passed. court of the Chief Ministers because ulti- For example, for the first time we are fixing mately they are the people who are to imple- the responsibility on the officers who are ment the laws at the grass-root level. goingto implement this piece of legislation at the grass root level. Supposing this piece of tn the end, I once again congratulate the legislation also meets the same fate as the hon. Prime Minister. He has shown by his earlier ones then what do we propose to do. actions - whether by filling the vacancies in My suggestion for that would be that at least, the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled in the first instance, you will be in a position Tribes quota or by giving reservations in the to know such atrocity prone areas in the Panchayati Raj System and now with the country where atrocities are committed on present Bill the he has brought forward -that the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes. he is cast in the same mould of the Congress Now such areas will get identified. Secondly, 103 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14, 1989 Atrocities) Bill 104

[Sh. P.M. Sayeed] where exactly the troubles are taking place. the officers who have got sympathy towards I feel that it is a good measure and has these communities must also be identified to be endorsed by one and all in this House. and some awards should be given to them I think, if it is implemented with the same whenever they implement the provisions of intention with which this has been brought this Bill in letter and spirit. before tbe House, the age-old atrocities and other inhuman things which are being in- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would also like to flicted by various high-castes, powerful and congratulate the hon. Prime Minister forthis. affluent sections of the rural society, will He has toured the length and breadth of this definitely be checked. Therefore, I whole- country and seen the plight of the Harijans heartedly support this measure and con- and the Adivasis. Even the hon. Minister gratulate the Prime Minister once again. herself has arranged so many seminars, Thank you very much. conventions, meetings of the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes MPs and MLAs SHRIMATIBASAVARAJESWARI (Bel- and other experts. After having studied the lary): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am happy to thank problem in depth she has brought this meas- the hon. Minister for having brought forward ure. We only hope that this will meet the this historic and.revolutionary Bill. We have requirements of the country. It is really very already passed the historic Panchayati Raj sorry that even after forty years of Independ- and Nagarpalika Bills. ence the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes population of our country - which is Most of us refuse to become the Minis- about 25 per cent - are not able to assert ter of Social Welfare - myself and Dr. Rajen- their rights and we are not in a position to dra Kumari Bajpai being exceptions. When give them their due share. The intention of ministerships are offered, most of them would the Government is very well spelt out in this like to become Industry Minister, Finance measure. I would have been happy if the Minister or Minister for some other depart- Opposition had been here and participated ment. But nobody is willing to become Min- in the debate and given their suggestions. ister for Social Welfar^ unless he or she is Instead of that they have chosen to remain very much sympathetic and can involve in outside and accuse the Government of bring- the welfare of the poorer sections of thp ing in all these measures with an eye on the society. In that way, I congratulate Madam coming general elections. The other day Bajpai for having taken charge as Minister when the Panchayati Raj Bill was being for Welfare and having'brought this historic discussed many hon. Members had touched Bill. I too was Minister for Social Welfare in this point. Forfour long years that aspect had Karnataka State. I know something about been deliberated upon and fifteen thousand the atrocities on and welfare of the people experts had cooperated and discussions belonging to the Scheduled Castes and were held at length. After that, it was brought Scheduled Tribes. before the House. The Harijans and Adiva- sis are now going to be given reservation in PROF. N.G. RANGA: So, we congratu- each village panchayat according to their late you both. population. Why should we not ask the State Governments to make such laws to see that SHRIMATI BASAVARAJESWARI: We these measures are implemented through have already taken several measures to them? There will be an inbuilt mechanism uplift the socially and economically back- through which they themselves can spot out ward people. Butstill we could not overcome 105 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 106 this problem. We have taken up a tot of anti- more 'anganwadis', we should try to see that poverty programmes like IRDP, NREP, children who are brought in one environment RLEGP. But what benefits have reached are shifted to another environment. Only them? I am very sorry to say that the benefits then, the whole scheme will be successful. have not reached them fully. There are vari- We have to change their environment first. ous reasons which I am going to explain How best to change their environment will shortly. depend on starting more and more 'anganwadis’ in the colonies instead of doing the same As stated by the hon. Minister, we have in the towns where there are more facilities given scholarships for their education. We to enjoy. We should try to see that more have distributed the surplus land for their 'anganwadis' and health centres are started socio-economic gains. We ask them to cul- in the tribal areas and Harijan localities and tivate the wasteland wherever it is available. so also the schools. We have started more We have asked them to cultivate forest land schools under the new education policy. We wherever it exists. We have worked out so are going to strengthen secondary educa- many schemes for the welfare and eco- tion under this new education policy. There nomic upliftment of these sections. But what are a number of single-room schools in the is going on? The real fact isthatthe schemes colonies. There are hundreds of children through which we are doing our best to help studying in such schools. We should try to them, are not reaching them. The reason strengthen education in these colonies them- behind this. Unless and until we bring total selves by providing more and more schools prohibition in this country, I don’t think we and more and more teachers. We should would be in a position to bring them on par make it compulsory for children to attend with others. Whatever amount we give and their schools. I would like to know from the whatever wages they earn and whatever hon. Minister as to how many drop-outs are economic benefits we give for them are there. You try to make a survey of the whele being misused by this section of the society. subject and try to find the number of drop- The first and foremost thing which we have outs. Children attend schools at the most to think is of total prohibition in this country. upto fourth or fifth standard or SSLC. After We may lose some revenue by this. But we that, very few go to college due to poverty. should not mind. We are the followers of And for the same, parents are not in a Gandhiji and so, we should be proud to say position to send their children to college. We that we are going in for total prohibition in this have to provide them with some alternatives country. K we want the poor ladies to be so that they need not depend upon the protected from all these evils, this is the only wages of their children. They take their chil- measure. By this measure, we can make dren to the fields just to supplement their them economically and morally well-off. income. How can we create a feeling among people that they can live without the wages The next point is about education. We of their children? are trying our best to give education to everybody. We have been implementing the These things should be taken care of. ICDC project for the welfare of children and Moreover, they have their own differences, also nutrition programme. I would like to such as, they belong to this group or that know as to many centres have been started group. I do not understand as to why there in the colonies. So many ‘anganwadis’ have are disparities. Whenever I visit them, I have been started under the ICDC project but I been telling them not to try to establish such find that very few of them have been started kinds of disparities and we all belong to the in Harijan cotonies. When we start more and same nation and they all belong to the same 107 S. C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14. 1989 Atrodti&s) Bill 108

[Smt. Basavarajeswari] people. Wherever we have given land, there should be some checks and balances to find weaker sections of the society. And H they out whetherthe land given to these people is fight among themselves, what will be the being cultivated by them. Legally, their name outcome? We must remember Madam may be there in the record, but who is the Gandhi on the Floor of this House. She had person actually cultivating it? The fact is that brought the political awareness among the it is being cultivated by somebody else. Who miniorities, backward classes and Harijans. takes the amount of fertilizers given to them? She had taught us about our rights. But till The moment they get the fertilizer, they sell now, we are not utilising those rights prop- it. What about the implements and seeds erly. Minister stated, while defining atrocity, being given to them? That is not going into that when we ask for our rights, atrocities are their hands. What is the reason for that? You committed on us. What has happened in should find out and set these things right. Karnataka? We are pained to see that such You should not think only one line, you things still continue in this country. In Karna- should think the other way also. taka there was a reformer in the 12th century, Lord Basava. Prof. Ranga knows that. What about the facilities being extended He wanted to eradicate social evils in our to them under the various schemes like society. He made revolutionary reformation IRDP? We give them buffaloes, cows, bulls in Karnataka. He was a great reformer. He and so many other things. If you go and see made one Harijan girt marry a Brahmin boy. next day, you will not find them there. That is But he was so much harassed and tortured why we are not achieving the development that he had to leave the kingdom and he that was anticipated by us. The real benefits committed suicide. He did his best in those are not reachingthe beneficiaries. You should days in the 12th century. And today, in the try to find out the reason. You must have a 20th century, we are shameful to see that check on the persons who are not utilizing such things are being practised. As Shri the aid being given to them. Unless we do Shahabuddin said, this is not to be viewed this, I do not think, the benefits will reach the politically. It is a national issue. Everybody proper persons. We should be very careful in should take it that we are all one in these these things. matters. We should try to love each other. Dr. Ambedkar, during the days when the As survey was undertaken and it re- Constitution was being drafted was awake at vealed that persons who belonged to the 2.00 O’clock in the night one day. I read that same community, scheduled castes or in one of the books. When one of his friends asked him why he was awake at that time, he scheduled tribes, once they achieved some- said: “How can I sleep unless my poor people thing, they were not very much in favour of can sleep during the night?”. There is still a developing their own brothers and sisters. lot to be done. Poverty is still there; so many Why is it so? Why do they forget their own social evils are still prevalent in our society. brothers and sisters? The survey also re- Even today the devdasi system is very much vealed that they were ashamed to go to their prevalent. Girls are being offered in the name own colonies. Why should it be so? In fact, of God freely. Such social evils need to be >: ► ' * ' f4 IM 1 ' they should be involved more in these kinds eradicated. Devdasi system, nude proces- of things. We must put an end to this sort of sions etc. in the name of God are very much attitude. prevalent in States like Maharashtra and Karnataka. Unless we put an end to these systems, I do not know how we can call Then, under the Land Reforms Act, ourselves as civiled persons. We are surplus land has been given to these poor 109 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of SRAVANA 23. 1911 (SAKA) Atrocities) Bill 110 ashamed to see that our sisters are being Tribes in almost all States of the country, ft is offered in the name of God freely, which known to all the hon. Members of the House ultimately leads to prostitution. These things including myself being a Scheduled Tribes, should be immediately curbed, Some of the besides other people, police personnel also States, I think, enacted laws to rehabilitate commit atrocities on them. Despite enact- these unfortunate devdasis and their chil- ment of laws, atrocities are still being com- dren, but that has not proved effective. Those mitted by the public as well as the police. devdasis and children are very much there. Whenever a victim of atrocities goes to po- Some serious thought has to be given, so lice station to lodge a complaint he is con- that these ladies and children are rehabili- fined in police lock up where he is threatened tated and kept in proper and good environ- to the extent that he loses his confidence in ment, so that the children can be given lodging a complaint. Such types of atrocities proper education. Unless these evils are are not reported. In the tribal society in my checked, I don’t think by bringing this legis- district, exorcism is practised. The exorcist is lation we ar going to improve the entire social called 'Bhagat' in local dialect. These Bhagats and economic structure of this community. often have long hairs on their heads and The word 'atrocities’ has been defined very treat the people of their diseases. A com- nicely but the only thing is that it has to be plaint was lodged against a Bhagat of my implemented also by way of morally as well area that he had stolen a thing from the field. as legally enforcing the law. At the same time Despite the fact that Bhagat owns 27-28 people should be given proper education acres of land, the police dragged him by the and teachings. All the 'swamijis', 'gurus’, hair, and lodged him in the police lock-up. He Lords and ‘dharam gurus' should come for- was not only beaten but he was also made ward to teach the people that we are all one. baldpated by the police. When he made a Unless our leaders come forward and give a complaint, it was not lodged. When I came to call to the nation, we don’t think that we can know about it and enquired from the Super- enact it firmly and the condition of these intendent of Police, he did not deny the fact people will improve. With these words, I that the complaint had not been registered. thank you very much. Whenever a poor man or a tribal goes to the police to lodge a complaint, his complaint is registered but later on it is said that no [ Translation] atrocities has been committed. It is said that when the Department of Welfare was a part SHRl MANIKRAO HODLVA GAVIT of the Ministry of Home Affairs, it had more (Nandurbar): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am grate- say in the States. But now it has been made ful to you for providing me an opportunity to an independent department. So I would express my views on Scheduled Castes and requestthe hon. Minister to do the needful so Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) that the Department could exercise more Bill. The hon. Minister has taken a good step authority over the States. by moving this Bill. I would like to thank her for this step. In view of the provisions made in this Bill and the views expressed by the The Minimum Wages Act has been hon. Members of the Parliament, I can say made for the poor and the Scheduled Castes that if the provisions of this Bill are imple- and Scheduled Tribes. But it has not been mented properly by the Centre and the State implemented properly in many states. Atten- Governments, the Scheduled Castes and tion should be paid to this also. the Scheduled Tribes will get justice. Recently, our Hon. Prime Minister Shri Mr. Chairman, Sir, as you also belong to RajivGandhi has made an extensive tours of Maharashtra, you are well aware of the atroci- the areas inhabited by the people belonging ties being committed on the people belong- to Scheduled Tribes. He visited the huts of ing to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled these poor people. He saw there the magni- , 1 S.C. and S. T. (Prev. of AUGUST 14,1989 Atrocities) Bill 112 / [Sh. Manikrao Hodlya Gavit] acquired for this project. Nothing has been done so far for their rehabilitation. Neither tude of poverty and felt their needs. For this any alternative land nor adequate compen- reason, this Bill has been brought here. sation for their land is being given to them. They are given land by the Government, on The Hon. Prime Minister has instructed town planning rate, whereas the land of poor that the backlog of reserved vacancies for is acquired at throw away prices at Rs. 4 to the persons belonging to Scheduled Castes 5 thousand an acre only. The Government is and Scheduled Tribes under the Govern- in favour of doing something in this regard. ment of India and the State Governments Unless Government tala same steps justice should be cleared. Their quota of reserva- cannot be done to the people belonging to tion as provided in the constitution should be the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. fulfilled. Recently, I have received a complaint that the Postal Department in Mahar- District Rural Development Agencies ashtra has advertised some posts under have been formed to implement all these special drive in a newspaper named 'Lok programmes. This Agency is also respon- Satta\ Applications were to be sent within sible for implementing the .schemes under seven days. I would like to submit to the hon. the Jawahar Rozgar Yojana. The funds Minister that how a candidate can send his provided to the Gram Panchayats under application within seven days. No candidate Jawahar Rozgar Yojana will be spent through belonging to these categories would apply to this Agency. I would like to submit that offi- the post. As a result thereof, backlog will not cers of clean record only should be posted in be cleared and the officer concerned will these agencies, other-wise all the money will write to his superior that "candidate not be pocketed by them and the Tribals and the available. When a super class I office in poor will get nothing. That is why I am giving Maharashtra Circle have this type of attitude stress time and again on the fact that the towards us, what can we expect from the Government should take steps to provide lower level off icers? Our Hon. Prime Minister justice to the poor with much alacrity. wants that the backlog should be cleared. But how it can be cleared when they are I would also like to submit that a large given 7 days time to send applications. At- number of persons belonging to communi- tention should be paid in this regard. The ties other than the SC/ST have availed of time schedule as directed by the Hon. Prime facilities by producing bogus caste certifi- Minister for clearance of the backlog should cate. On the basis of bogus certificates, they be extended further. The last date by which got admission in various educational institu- backlog is to be cleared is 31st October, tions such as I.T.I’s, medical colleges and 1989. It should be extended further. engineering colleges, etc. These bogus tribals living in cities are enjoying facilities I have heard that special courts have meant for the tribals living in hill areas. They been set up for trial of cases of atrocities obtain caste certificates on the basis of affi- committed on the people belonging to Sched- davit. Thus the genuine tribals are deprived uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. When of their facilities. I urge upon the Government their complaints are not registered in the to weed out bogus tribals. In 1977, the police stations, who will heed to their com- Government of India removed the area re- plaints in the court? striction. Due to this decision, a number of non-eligible persons could get caste certifi- A big irrigation project by the name of cates showing themselves as tribals. Those Sardar Sarovar Project is being set up on certificates are still valid. Narmada river at a place where borders of Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra and Gujarat Recently a Central Minister paid a visit meet. Land of 33 villages of Maharashtra to a Department of Central Government. He and some tribal villages of Gujarat is being said there that the caste certificates should 113 S.C. and S.T. (Prev. of SRAVANA 23. 1911 (SAKA) Discussion under 114 Atrocities) Bill Rule 193 be issued on permanent basis. I told him that (A), for "whoever, not being a member of a I am a tribal myself and I never heard such Scheduled Caste or a Scheduled Tribes, thing. Such authority helps the bogus people...... The word “whoever" is sufficient and words “not being a member of a Scheduled The people belonging to Kasti Commu- Caste and Scheduled Tribe" should be de- nity are taking advantages by declaring leted. Only then the purpose of this Bill will be themselves as the people belonging to Halba served. Suppose, an officer belonging to and Halbi tribals. This should be checked. If Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe com- they are really backward, they should make mits atrocities on Scheduled Castes and demand for separate provision. In no case, Scheduled Tribes and tries to deprive them they should be allowed to share the cake of their rights he will not be punished under meant for Tribals, People belonging to the provision of this Bill as many of our ‘Machimar Koli’ are taking undue advantage learned Members have stated that as soon on the names of 'Suryawanshi Koli’, ‘To- as economic conditions of a person belong- karekoli’, Mahadev koli’, Dhor koli' and To- ing to the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled kare koli’ in Maharashtra. This should be Tribe improves, he does not want to live in checked. If they are backward, they should the colony or locality in which he used to live be provided separate reservation. Only the earlier with his other bretheren. persons belonging to genuine tribals should be appointed on the posts and given admis- 16.00 hrs. sion in the educational institutions reserved for them. [English]

In the end, I would like to submit that if MR. CHAIRMAN: It is already 4 P.M. the hon. Minister is really sincere to check The House shall take up discussion under the atrocities on Harijans and Tribals, then Rule 193. So, you can continue next time. he should give a serious thought to my You please resume your seat. suggestions.

SHRI JANAK RAJ GUPTA (Jammu): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the disease got aggra- 16.01 hrs. vated with every dose of medicine, ft is not for the first time that we are confronted with DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193 the fact that a lot of atrocities are committed on the Harijans. There is hardly a State Fourth, Fifth and Sixth interim reports where this malady is not present. Of course, and final report of Kudal Commission some where it is in lesser degree and some- of Inquiry set up to enquire into tho where it is in acute form. A number of laws affairs of Gandhi Peace Foundation and have been enacted from time to time by the connected organisations Government to checfc atrocities on the Sched- uled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. There is [Eng'ish] no doubt that it has been checked to some extent. The Bill moved by Shrimati Bajpai is MR. CHAIRMAN: The House now shall the need of the hour, ft was a long felt take up discussion under Rule 193. Shri T. demand of the people. Provisions of this Bill Basheer. needs to be implemented strictly. SHRIT.BASHEER(Chirayinkil): Ithank Before I could say something about the you for giving me this opportunity to raise this provisions of the Bill, I would like to draw the important discussion in this House on the attention of the hon. Minister towards sec- findings and the recommendations of Kudal tion 3 of the Bill. In this connection I would Commission. Many times this subject has like to suggest an amendment. In section 3 been raised in this House in various forms. W ’J / n /J / 115 Discussion under AUGUST 14,1989 Rule 193 116

[Sh. T. Basheer] here these Opposition leaders went to the Swedish Embassy to give a representation Many hon. Members have expressed their there. So, their faith was not in this House, views about this discussion. But today we but their faith was in the Swedish Embassy! have got this opportunity to have a comprehensive discussion on this subject. You may remember that the Opposition Members made a hue and cry about the I remember that on 8th May, 1985, there Thakkar Commissions Report. But when we was a Calling Attention being discussed in were discussing the Thakkar Commission’s this House and it was brought by a very Report they were not here. They boycotted. prominent parliamentarian, Shri Indrajit Gupta. Various reports on Kudal Commis- Again, during this year's Budget Ses- sion of Inquiry appeared in the Press which sion when we were discussing the General are of serious nature. So, we asked for a Budget—very important so far as this Parlia- discussion on this subject. In the last ses- ment and this country are concerned they sion, we also requested the hon. Minister to were not here. They boycotted this House. lay the reports on the Table of this House. So, we are grateful to the hon. Minister for And again about the C&AG’s Report, it laying those Reports on the Table of the was Mr. Madhu Dandavate and Mr. Jaipal House last week. He had laid on the Table of Reddy who gave the notice for discussion. the House the Final Report of Kudal Com- The Government were prepared and the mission of Inquiry and the Action Taken Hon. Speaker allowed the discussion and it Report by the Government. figures in the Order Paper. Then they ran away. This shows the faith they have in this 16.03 hr*. democratic system. They have no real faith in democracy; they have no real faith in this [PROF. NARAIN CHAND PARASHAR—in august House, in this important institution. the Chair[ They have no faith in this temple of democracy. Two things are clear: that they have no The hon. Speaker was kind enough to faith in democracy, and they are not inter- allow a discussion on them in this House. ested to know the truth. They are not in When we are discussing this important search of truth. They are not interested in subject, the seats of the Opposition Mem- knowing the truth. What they are doing are bers are vacant except Shri Syed Shahabud- political gimmicks, political stunts. These din. The Opposition Parties are not repre- resignations by the Opposition leaders are sented by their M mbers in this House at also nothing but naked political stunts. present. I think it would have been better if they were here. But it is quite unfortunate I do not want to go further on those that they are not here. Prof. Madhu Dan- points. I am coming to the Kudal Commis- davate, who is very alert in raising these kind sion Report. of discussions is not here. Sir, the Lok Sabha passed a Resolution In this Report there is a reference to on 28th August 1981 recommending that the Prof. Madhu Dandavate also. So, I think it acts and activities of Gandhi Peace Founda- would have been better ft he were present tion, Gandhi Smarak Nidhi, All India Serva here. Their absence here and their resigna- Seva Sangh, Association of Voluntary Agen- tion from this House show their attitude cies for Rural Development (AVARD) and towards this House, tt is not for the first time other organisation connected with them be that they have taken such an attitude. IwoukJ inquired into by a Comn\\ssvon a* Inquiry* like to cite some examples. Accordingly, the Commission was set up on 17th February 1982. The period of the When we discussed the Bofors issue Commission, which was originally six months, 117 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 118 was extended from time to time tilt 31st ment, etc. etc. I would like to quote some January 1987. ft took almost five years. You parts from the Report, it is mentioned on know that the Commission submitted six page 110 of the final Report and t quote: Interim Reports and a Final Report. Now these Reports along with the Action Taken “Under the cover of the Sarvodaya Report by the Government are before us in workers meeting at Bangalore from this House, Some of the facts brought cut by July 6-12, 1973, the GPF—Gandhi the Kudal Commission are very much dis- Peace Foundation—alongwith some turbing. Everybody should agree that rt is of of the organisations took part in the a very very serious nature. Sir, I would like to discussions one political and economic say that Justice Kudal has done a great situation in the country and the role of service by opening our eyes to the vast the Sarvodaya movement, 'express- dimensions of corruption, financial irregu- ing concern over the rapid erosion of larities, politicalisation of institutions by the democratic values and the increasing so-called Gandhian institutions and other trends towards centralisation of politi- voluntary organisations. It is highly deplor- cal and economic power* and the able that the institutions established in the ‘creeping trend towards authoritarian- name of the Father of the National Mahat- ism within an outward facade of de- maji, indulged in such kind of activities. Sir, mocracy and devious manner of re- this is a very serious matter. I think the striction on academic freedom and the Government will treat it with due serious- freedom of the press; as well as the ness. And I am sure people will judge these incidious growth of a climate of fear in things with seriousness. which dissent is becoming increasingly unsafe.” Sir, these voluntary organisations have been indicated mainly on two counts, gross These are not the aims and objects of this financial irregularities and attempts of politi- Gandhian organisation. They are not ex- cal subversion in collusion with foreign fund- pected to do this job. This was the way they ing agencies. had indulged in political propaganda. Again I would like to quote from page 111 of the Final Report: Sir, I had gone through the Action Taken Report presented by the hon. Home Minister "On 28.11.1974, the first meeting of in this House. Of course, many charges have the National Coordination Committee been stopped on the ground of insufficient of the Non-Communist political parties evidence. I think from the Government side was held in the premises of the GPF the hon. Home Minister will tell more details, with Shri Jayaprakash Narayan in the will throw more tight, as to why they have not Chair. This meeting was convened by been pursued and as to why these cases Shri K.S. Radhakrishna, where adeci- were stopped. But it is true that clear evi- sion was taken to organise a million dence is required to secure a conviction. strong 'March to the Parliament* in When I went through the Report, I was Delhi on 6th March, 1975 and for that shocked. You may be remembering, Sir, purpose, a Sub-Committee of the said about the total revolution which was launched Coordination Committee consisting of during the years 1975-76. You may be leaders of the Jan Sangh, Congress remembering about that total revolution, New (O). B.LD., Socialist Party and Akali Nirman movement, etc. These were propa- Dal was constituted. The cell for ‘March gated by a Gandhian organisation in the to the Parfiament' was a political move country in the first half of seventies. The sponsored by the non-Communist attempt was to subvert the existing political political parties and had nothing to do system in this country under these attractive with the professed aims and objects of tytles as total revolution, Nav Nirman move- the G.P.F.". 119 Discussion under AUGUST 14, 1989 Rule 193 120

[Sh. T. Basheer] “2 (xvi) That after the declaration of Emer- gency. the GPF actively cooper- So, this gives a clear picture of how they ated in planned subversive activi- have indulged in such activities. Sir, you may ties to overthrow the Government recollect that there was an organisation called by force and after the tragic assas- Citizens for Democracy constituted at that sination of Sheikh Mujibur Rehman, time. Here I quote from the final Report of the President of Bangladesh the coun- Commission: try was flooded with circulars that the dictator of Bangladesh is fin- ished and the dictator of our coun- “The said Citizens for Democracy was/ try, Mrs. Indira Gandhi will meet the has been operating from the premises same fate." of theGPF with Shri K.S. Radhakrishna as its Secretary. The members who Now look at the conspiracy made by them. participated in the said meeting in- Sir. please let me quote again from the cluded, among other, S/Shri S.N. Report: Mishra, George Fernandes, Prof. Madhu Dandavate, L.K. Advani, Nanaji “2 (xvii) That the GPFmisused its resources Deshmukh, Rabi Roy, Biju Patnaik and in circulating literature clandestinely S.M. Joshi." against Mrs. Indira Gandhi and her party branding her as a dictator, a Again, I would like to quote from the Re- fascist, an autocrat, etc. and ac- port— cused her of attempting to perpetu- ate her dynastic rule in the coun- "That the GPF actively campaigned for try." the candidates of a political party, namely, the Janata Party during the This was the joke of Gandhi Peace Founda- General Elections of 1977." tion in those days. From these parts which I have quoted here, we could understand how Sir, is this the job of the G.P.F.? Further, I Gandhi Peace Foundation violated its aims would like to quote from the Report: and objects, how Gandhi Peace Foundation indulged in political propaganda, how GPF “That a meeting was held on 22-3- misused its name by lending its support to 1977 at Jhanda Chowk, Roshanpura, activities joining the Opposition parties. Bhopal, where Shri Ram Chandra Bhargava alongwith 10/12 workers of Sir, the Government under Shrimati the GPF Centre pulled down the Con- Indira Gandhi had repeatedly warned the gressflag and hoisted the Janata Party nation about the intervention of foreign forces flag at the same place. The Congress in the internal affairs of the country and the flag hoisted at the residence of Dr. LK. attempts of de-stabilisation of the country Mishra was also pulled down by the with the help of internal forces. Who are GPF workers." those internal forces? Justice Kudal has identified some of those forces. These or- SHRI SVED SHAHABUDDIN: That is ganisations became tools in the hands of not the criminal offence. Opposition parties at that time. These institutions were in receipt of vast amount of SHRI T. BASHEER: But it is not the job money from foreign funding organisations, of the G.P.F. They have removed one party’s like Ford Foundation, EZE West Germany flag and in its place they have put up another and so on. The operation of Ford Foundation flag. Sir, I have to quote some other serious and the scheme of Its assistance are matters things from the Report. I quote from page of grave controversies. These foreign insti- 114 of the Report. tutions are not mere funding institutions. 121 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 122

They have deep political interest in various for the country. These organisations were countries of the world which is known to the being used by foreign agencies. The Kudal enlightened political opinions in this country. Commission report says that large portion of Our Gandhian institutions were getting big foreign funds went in undesirable hands and amounts from these organisations. From the was used for various disruptive activities. evidences collected by Justice Kudal, it is Their aim was to create chaos and destabli- proved that these funds were used to create saton in the country. dissatisfaction among the people and thereby bring about revolt against the legally estab- I would like to quote a few lines from the lished Government. The tatksat that time final report, at page 225: about partyless democracy, total revolution, call to the Army to revolt etc. were part of that “The Commission observed that most campaign. Justice Kudal tells us that the of the voluntary organisations operat- literature published at that time by the ing in the border, coastal and tribal Gandhian organisations was In support of areas of the country were getting large this Opposition political campaign. funds from a number of foreign agencies, i.e. EZE West Germany, in par- Sir, although the Government have ticular. Receipt of such large funds dropped many of these cases, as it is dear from foreign sources had generally from the action taken report submitted by the little or no co-relation with the develop- Minister, I would like to tell it is a caution for mental and constructive activities of the Government. Justice Kudal's elaborate such voluntary organisation. A large evidences and findings cautioned the Gov- chunk of such foreign funds thus went ernment that Government could not ignore in undesirable hands and got used for the fact that such attempts of de-stabilisation various disruptive activities meant to in the country are still going on at different create chaos and destablisation in the levels. I should like to say that we should be country." firm in our approach toward those forces, because they have all become together now. I quote from the report further:

Sir, another serious thing in the Kudal “The Commission observed that some Commission Report is about the Kerala of the voluntary agencies indulged in Gandhi Smarganidhi. This organisation re- collection of sensitive data and supply ceived huge amount, about Rs. 59 lakhs ing the same to various foreign agen- from a foreign donor in U.S.A. This organisa- cies analysis and use." tion portrayed a very distorted picture of the State for the purpose of obtaining fund. They t would further quote after a few lines: wrote to be organisation that there were “Another voluntary organisation got atrodties in the State. At that time, the involved in collodion of geo-physical Government in Kerala was of CPI (M), Mr. and geo-hydrological data of different Nayyanar was the Chief Minister. So, these parts of this country and passed on the organisations daimed that they were going same to a foreign agency.” to fight that CPI (M) Government! I would like to say that it is not the job of Kerala Gandhi h is great concern for this country. Why Smaraka NkJhi, Smarganidhi alone. There did these foreign agencies want such data are political parties that would fight. We from our country? For what purpose? Whal cannot agree \ha\ \he pb o\ GandV\\ V& Ynevr usq ! YlYiy have \Y\ey asked these Smaraka Nidhi. voluntary organisations to collect these important data and to pass on to those Another important point is, some of the foreign countries? Why had these voluntary voluntary organisations had indulged in anti- organisations in our country indulged in anti- national activities, which is a great concern national adivities? 123 Discussion under AUGUST 14.1909 Rule 193 124

[Sh. T. B as beer) SHRiT. BASHEER: I can quote. Please bear with me for a moment. Now, the second count on which these voluntary institutions have been indicated by P. 210:— the Commission is the gross financial irregularity. These organisations diverted and “It has come to the notice of the Com- misappropriated massive aid funds. Pages mission that in the year 1979, Shri after pages have been written by Justice George Fernandes, the then Union Kudal. I have no time to go into all these Minister of Industries, desired that loans things. Who are the beneficiaries? Who to the artisans in Muzaffarpur District misappropriated these funds? Our people (Bihar) be distributed on 6th June, 1979 must know. The country must know. Some of by the Khadi Village and Industries them are our big Opposition leaders. Shall I Commission (KVIC) through the Asso- tell their names? They are Mr. Madhu Dan* ciation of Voluntary Agencies for Rural davate, Mrs. Pramila Dandavate, Mr. George Development (AVARD) and that in Fernandes, Mr. Rabi Ray, Mr. Purushottam order to expedite the procedure for the Kaushik, Mr. Dhanik Lai Mandal etc. Mr. release of funds for this purpose by the Madhu Dandavate was here when we raised KVIC to the AVARD. Shri LC. Jam, this question and he did not deny it. I remem- then Chairman of All India Handicrafts ber, he said, "I have received it with the Board (AIHB) and a prominent figure in permission of the RBI.” Mr. Madhu Dan- the AVARD and Shri A.C. Sen, Gen- davate was the Trustee of Mathru-Mandir in eral Secretary of the AVARD ap- Ratnagiri District. His organisation received proached the KVIC and its Chairman financial assistance through AVARD. it is Shri Som Dutt Vedalankar during May, mentioned at page 116 to 119 of the Second 1979 in this connection." Report. Mr.George Fernandes got Rs. 24.37 lakhs from Khadi and Village Industries I quote:— Commission for distribution among the poor artisans in his parliamentary constituency, That the Constitution of the AVARD Muzaffarpur, Bihar. He was then the Minister would be amended so as to bring the of Industries, in the Janata Government. activities of the khadi and viilage in- This amount was sanctioned by fluting all the dustries within its purview and jurisdic- rules and procedures. This is value-based tion." politics) It was only to subserve the political interest of Mr. George Fernandes. But the SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: Then most interesting thing is, this money which you must prosecute him. why have you not was meant to be distributed among the poor prosecuted him? artisans of Muzaffarpur was not distributed. Mr. Fernandes is the leading light in the SHRI T. BASHEER: Your point is valid. camp of the Opposition Parties, who talk about the value-based politics. Another MR. CHAIRMAN: Please oonclude now. person Is, Mr. Dhanik LaJ Mandal. SHRI T. BASHEER: This is relevant thing, please. SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan- I quote: aanj): Was the money misappropriated by Mr. Fernandes? “That the Constitution of the AVARD would be amended so as to bring the SHRI T. BASHEER; Yes. activities of the khadi and village industries within its purview and jurisdic- SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: All the tion." Rs. 25 lakhs? It is amended. 125 Discussion under SRAVANA23,1911 (SAKA) Rub 193 126

DR. G.S. RAJHANS (Jhanjharpur): SHRI T. BASHEER: Sir, please give me What did Mr. Dhanfc Lai Mandal do? five more minutes.

SHRl T. BASHEER: Ha was also Min- MR. CHAIRMAN: You please take two ister of Home Affairs in the Janata Govern- minutes. You have already taken 40 min- ment and he was Chairman, Madhubani utes. Others also want to speak. Zilla Samagra Sansthan. His organisation raised Rs. 7.74 lakhs. The report says that SHRl T, BASHEER: These are the he misappropriated Rs. 1,50,000/-. Opposition parlies which are taking about value-based politics. This is very important Again another man Mr. Purushottam and people must know about it. Sir, I am Kaushik was also Minister of Information in realty amused to hearing what value are they the Janata Government. He was President, talking about? Is fradulent misuse of public Madhya Pradesh Famine and Drought Re- money an important feature of this value- lief Committee and Chairman, Jan Kalyan baed politics? Is colluding with the foreign Samiti. The report says: agencies a part of the value-based politics? The country has seen many things about this “Shri Purushottam Kaushik misused value-based politics. The country has seen vehicles which were meant for relief the real author of the value-based politics work during his election. He used the going out of office as a result of tapping of vehicles for electioneering purpose." telephones He is a glamour hero who talks about the value-based politics. There Shri Rabi Ray was the Chairman of the are serious charges of corruption against Orissa Gram Vikas Foundation. As Minister, him regarding land deal of NRI Housing he wrote a letter to AIHB and got grant which Societies. I am not going into that. You know were misappropriated. I am not going further very well. Recently, there was the liquor because of lack of time. scandal.

Now, I would like to say a few words Another partner of this value-based about the funding agencies from which for- politics has been clearly indicted by the High eign funds came. One is the Asia Founda- Court in seven cases...*... He is the brain tion. You know this is a conduit of CIA. behind the Opposition parties. Government of India asked Asia Foundation to dose down their office in India in 1968. SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: Was he Thereafter. £ze West Germany was funding also indicted by the Commission? (Interrup- these organisations. tions)

Another funding agency is the Ford SHRI T. BASHEER I am telling about Foundation This is also a CIA agency. Under the value-based politicians, their character, cover of "Research and Development" in their true colour. December, 1978, the Janata Government accorded approval for a grant of US $ MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. 2,50,000/- as aid from the Ford Foundation to the AVARD for “strengthening of voluntary efforts for rural development" for a period of SHRI T. BASHEER: I will conclude. He three years ending on September, 30,1981. was indicted by the High Court in seven I have a long list of these Funding Agencies. cases. He was indicted for nepotism, corrup- I am not going into all these things. tion etc. But still he continues in power like a limpet. He is the Brahma Rishi for our Oppo- MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. sition parties here. In the case of Lok Dal

’ Not recorded. 127 Discussion under AUGUST 14,1989 Rule 193 128

[Sh. T. Basheer] outside the House. One thing is dear. All these tafes about value-based politics by the people, I can understand this. But the CPM Opposition is a smoke-screen to hide their people must know what is the background of mistakes. Now I conclude. I conclude by this man. saying that there are valuable suggestions in the Report. One important suggestion is that MR. CHAIRMAN: You must conclude the present statutes are not sufficient. They in a minute. are inadequate. So, I suggest to the Govern- ment to bring an amendment to the present SHRI T. BASHEER: I will conclude. statutes. They have a political philosophy. But the parly like CPM depend on this persons. Another thing is, we know how they are (Interruptions) running the Gandhian organisations. So, I suggest that Government should take over MR. CHAIRMAN: Don't interrupt. these Gandhian organisations.

(Interruptions) With these words, I conclude.

SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: Don't [Translation] denigrate them. All along, they have been fighting against it... SHRI BANWARI LAL PUROHIT (Nagpur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the question (Interruptions) before us is as to what led to the setting up of Kudal Commission. Foryears, huge funds SHRI T. BASHEER: There are serious have been flowing into the country from criminal charges against another Leader of abroad in the name of tribals, poor, minori- Opposition who rules Haryana. Reports are ties and backward classes. These funds coming in. Now I come to my State, Kerala. were received by thousands of bogus or- I will tell you about it. I can tell you that there ganisations, which were set up in due course are serious corruption charges against a and were headed by the people bearing high number of Kerala Ministers. One CPM Min- moral character. It was due to these big ister ...... received crores of rupees in names that such organisations received wide liquor deal and Abkari deal. The charge was publicity. Those crores of rupees which were made with necessary evidence and docu- brought into the country in the name of poor ments. H was raised in the House there by were spent on devisive forces, spies and the Opposition Leader Shri Karunakaran those who instigated casteism in the coun- with proper evidence. The Electricity Minis- try. They went to the extent of printing maps ter in Kerala Government is facing serious of strategic installations of the country in- charges of corruption regarding construc- cluding highways and telephone exchanges. tion of the Lower-Periyar Hydro-Electric These circumstances led to the setting up of Project. There are serious corruption charges Kudal Commission. against the Education Minister. These are the value-based politicians! The Opposition It was the duty of the Commission to is talking about high morals and principles. expose these Gandhian organisations which The Chief Minister has refused to order an were engaged in bogue activities. Now, the inquiry into these charges. So much for their people have become aware of the disruptive value-based politics! and anti-national activities these organisations have been engaged in. But I do not These are the Opposition parties and thing that the Kudal Commission has done leaders who make a lot of noise here and anything big during its tenure of 5 years. It

*Not recorded. 120 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 130 has bean able to touch only a tip of the which is peaceful and on way to develop- icebery; i.e. corruption. The Commission ment and force K to toe their line and accept was able to investigate only 180 cases and their subjugation. In the event of the latter not 300 cases remained incomplete. The fact obliging, conspiracies are hatched to de- that Kudal Commission stopped functioning stroy them. To achieve their objective, they midway has left a question mark before us. bought the people with money. For years, Names of those people involved in those 300 these funds were provided to the Associa- cases should have been exposed. These tion of voluntary Agencies for Rural Devel- misdeeds make patriotic Indians hang their opment, known as AVARD. Later on a heads in shame. Today those people are not number of other agencies got them associ- here, otherwise they would have closed their ated with it. For about 10-15 years, these ears with cotton. Now those people them- funds were provided by the C.I.A. Later selves raise the slogans of patriotism in funds were provided through many other foreign countries. My colleague has just now foreign organisations like the Oxform of given a glimpse of the misdeeds which took London, C.D. Dania Church Dania Commu- place there. Here is another glimpse of their nity Australia, Germany, West Germany. functioning: These organisations were used as tool by the C.I.A. in its efforts to destablise our It has been mentioned that: country. I don't lime to repeat the names mentioned by my friend, but for the sake of [English] record, I would like to mention the names of those organisation, which received money. foreign donar agency E.Z.E. donated Rs. 40 The following organisations have received lakhs for the rehabilitation of surrendered foreign funds during the Janata Govern- dacoit. ment’s rule i.e. during 1977 to 1979:—

[Translation] Vanwasi Sewa Vendra 42 lakh

A sum of Rs. 40 lakh was donated for reform- Nehru Sewa Sangh 18 ing the Dacoits of Chambal, etc. But there is no account of those 40 lakh rupees. Not a Citizen Voluntary Centre 76 single penny was spent on the dacoits. This is the finding of the Commission. One of Mahatma Gandhi Sewa them Mahabir Bhai, a noted Gandhian him- Ashram 33 self said that not a single penny was spent. It means that they have become bigger Tagore Society for Rural dacoits than those dacoits who surrendered Development 89 arms. Real dacoits will do penance for their crimes, but the amount of Rs. 40 lakhs, Shayama Prasad Institute which was brought from the foreign coun- of Culture 16 tries for rehabilitation of these dacoits, was totally bungled. This is a case of dacoity T.A. Gramdan Sangh, having been committed on dacoits. I do not Assam 31 think our history has any other example of this kind. This a example should be written in Nirfad, Mathura, U.P. 200 golden letters in the history that such people are also present in India who can loot the Mandra, Umayan 38 dacoits and call themselves as honest people. These are the findings of the Commission. The whole funding was done through C.I.A. All their activities are guided from their Everyone knows about the doings of the head-quarters. Rajendra Memorial Trust 5 C.l.A. Their objective is to choose a country lakh and AVARD, New Delhi 306 lakh. 131 Discussion under AUGUST 14, 1989 Rule 193 132

[Sh. Banwari Lai Purohit] others. I would like to know from the Govern- ment what steps it is going to take now when So much of funds have been received. the Report has been received. Will the cases A single organisation received Rs. 68,40.942 be filed against them? ft is necessary to file in 1979. In 1980, the amount slumped to Rs. cases, otherwise the public wiH loose faith in 5,38,545. In 1981 the amount further slumped the Government. The Kudal Commission because Janata Government was dethroned. has submitted such clear-cut findings and Later on, they received Rs. 12,44,000. ft is has exposed the corruption with evidence. regretful that on the excuse of rehabilitation What are you waiting for? An AIR should be of the poor such letters were written to the lodged and action should be taken. All the foreign agencies asking them for money. I facts should be placed before the public. The would Ifce to read out the confidential tetters. names of the leaders against whom there These are the findings of the Assistant are dear-cut charges of corruption should Secretary, who was doing the enquiry. The be prominently published in all the national following letter was written by a member of and regional newspapers. This should be Kerala Gandhi Smarak N id hi to the foreign done even if it costs some money to the companies: Government. But it is essential to expose them before the masses. This is my demand. 17.00 h r*. Thereafter publicity should be done to the effect that there is nothing in the Bofors and [English] the CA&G Reports. Ademonstration of Bofors Gun has proved that it is the best fun. We lost “Just now we are facing a very compli- the elections in Haryana, because Shri Devi cated and taxing situation.” Lai misted the people there. He told those poor villagers that the range of the gun is only [Translation] 5 kms. He has betrayed the country by misleading the innocent people. During the They are writing to the foreigners and demonstration, it became evident that the telling them that they are sincere. range of the gun was 30 to 30.5 kms. Shri Jagjit Singh Aurora of the opposition himself [English] said on the T.V. that:

"Political violence is mounting. Trade [English] unions affiliated to ruling party are aggressive and are exploitative. They “As far as the quality of the gun is just harass people and get what they concerned, we have no doubt in our want. Opposition Parties are finding it minds”. difficult tofunct ion. Theirpolicy is gradually being made ineffective. Temples [Translation] and Churches are being looted. Un- less this trend is arrested, we will have to face unpleasant situation." This has been said by him. You cannot change ft.... (Interruptions) When they in- [ Translation] dulge in such type of publicity, why should we waft, when we have all the evidence. What they mean to say is that foreigners Action should be taken by lodging an FIR should intervene here. Thus, a lot of money immediately. Letthe law take its own course was sent to them just after the letter was Shortcoming in the law, if any, should be received. These are the findings of Kudal removed. Commission. Today those dishonest people level charges against us. The people living in Mr. Chairman, Sir, it has been dearty glass-houses should not throw stones at written in the letter, which I read out just now 133 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Rub 193 134

[English] Commission. A special agency should be constituted to hold enquiry into those things. “Consequent upon this letter, world Kudal Commission had neither enough time neighbour, USA, enhanced the amount nor adequate machinery to investigate. The of grant to Kerala GSN in the year Commission detected the facts on the basis 1981 -82 and the Kerala GSN received of the evidence presented before it. I would a sum of Rs. 4.27 lakhs extra from the urge the Government to get the matter inves- world neighbour". tigated by some experienced and high level officers of the intelligence who may not [Translation] successable to pressure from outside. The hon. Minister may kindly clarify in his reply as They get money from America. They are to whether investigation to this effect would facing difficulties here. Theirdifficulties cannot be conducted or not. be removed with the assistance from this country. The Indian people cannot remove Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have brought a few their difficulties. On the basis of foreign money major points to the notice of the House. If I thus received, they will work on their orders, start going into the details, the time would be do spying, try to destablise the country by over. I would like the Government to bring engineering riots. They ask for money from the truth before the people. This has been them for organising big rallies. After that, happening for the last 25 years. Foreign they ask us questions. Is this not treason? ft money has been flowing in to the oountry. is nothing less than that. Cases of treason What is the motive behind it? That money is should be filed against them. Kudal Com- misused in the country. Disruptive forces are mission has clearly said that they are trai- taking advantage of the money, ft is said that tors. So there is nothing to be afraid of them. the money is meant tor the welfare of the I would like to know from the hon. Minister poor people. But has anything has been why there is so much delay in launching done for them? George Fernandes asserted prosecution even after the findings have that he did not swindle money. About Rs. 18 been submitted. I would like to know what lakhs out of the total amount of Rs. 28 lakh steps he is going to take in future? kept on lying with him for about 6 months He did not return that money. The interest alone [ Translation] comes to R3. 16 lakh in 6 years. This is nothing but corruption. Through enquiry We have the right to know it because they should be held to sift the truth from the have indulged in such anti-national activi- falsehood. I suggest that there is r.o need to ties. they have committed a treachery against adopt a soft attitude to those who have been the nation. No person, howsoever high guilty of treason. And the evidence of trea- position he may be holding, can be forgiven. son is there. Because it is not a question of Whatever propaganda they may make in an individual it is a question of the country. this regard, the Government cannot be re- My suggestion is that same penalties should lieved of its responsibility. They should be imposed on these offenders as are appli- immediately take action in this regard. My cable to criminal offenders. submission is that though final decision is to be taken by court, yet the Government on [English] their part should not show any Blackness in taking action. SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan- ganj): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Lok Sabha On going through the full text of the resolution of 28th August, 1981 asking for an report, it appears that about 250 pages have inquiry in the activities of some organisa- been left incomplete. Kudal Commission left tions was preceded by a volley of question the report incomplete because many things since 1975. On 17th February, 1982 the and evidences remained concealed from the Kudal Commission was appointed bv the 135 Discussion under AUGUST 14, 1989 Rule 193 136

[Sh. Syed Shahabuddin] cases refer to other association which are associated with AVARD. This is the sum- Government. The last the final report of the total of what we have got. Commission—which was appointed initially for six months—was submitted on 30th I am not concerned with the obiter dicta January, 1987, the period of inquiry lasted of Justice Kudal or the generalisations or for nearly five years. with his sermonisations or moral postures or his innuendoes or his half-truths and un- Sir, the report lay with the Government truths which are in the recommendations of for consideration for nearly two and a half the report because recommendations have years and finally it was submitted to the nothing to do, in many instances, with what House on 6th August, 1989 and the hon. is contained in the report. They are general Minister made a statement to the Lok Sabha, sermons against the ‘so-called Gandhians', I believe; on 7th of this month. The first on how Gandhian institutions should func- question that I would like to place before the tion as if Justice Kudal today is the sole House is related to the timing of the tabling of legatee of the Gandhian heritage and he is these reports. Why should the Government the sole judge of how Gandhian activities take nearly two and a half years ... and that should be carried out in this country. too come so close to a general election. Of course, the purpose is very dear from the Well, f do not want to disturb Mr. Kudal presentations made to us by the spokesmen from his day-dreams or from his place in of thetreasury benches. The hon. colleagues, paradise. That is up to him but surely such who have preceded me, have made it a recommendation won't constitute any legal political issue. or any criminal case that that is being made out here against anyone. What was the Now, at a cost of nearly Rs. 2 crore, procedure? It was a roving inquiry. H was a what have we finally got? There are 118 fishing expeditions which lasted for about cases out of which 56 have been dropped by five long years. No charges were specifically the Government on the advice of the Ministry referred to the Commission. Not even the of Law and Justice and the CBI. 56 are still on hon. Members, who had raised those volley the books. But of them, 42 do not pertain to of questions in the House during 1975 to the sphere of the activity of the Central 1977, took it upon themselves to place their Government And they have been referred charges before the Commission. The Gov- to State Governments or other agencies or ernment which is supposed to lead evidence autonomous organisations for necessary under the Commissions of Inquiry Act, under action. When they were so referred, we don't which the Kudal Commission was appointed, know. What have they done about it, we did not lead any evidence. The procedure don’t know. What they propose to do about was that Justice Kudal constituted himself it, we don’t know, ^ixteen are still under into the complainant, the investigator and investigation by the CBI—2 1/2 years after finally the judge—all rolled into one. This fact Mr. Kudal wrote his report. I don't know at alone should be adequate to tell us about the what pace the CBI works. But sometimes we credibility of this report. know at what pace the CBI works. We know about its performance in the Bofors case. Justice Kudal and the Government say that these organisations did not cooperate I made a categorisation this morning of with the Commission. Now, what are the these sixteen cases. One case refers to facts, Sir? Mr. Chairman, 24 months elapsed Gandhi Peace Foundation. One case refers after the establishment of the Commission to Sarva Seva Sangh. One case refers to the and not a notice was sent to any of the Gandhi National Museum. One case refers organisations that are supposed to be called to the Gandhi Smarak Nidhi of Kerala. There upon, that are supposed to be under inves- are seven cases against AVARO and five tigation. Is that the rule of law? Is that how the 137 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 (S>MA) Rule 193 138 legal system should function? They were THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE never called. The office-bearers were never MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL, PUBLIC called. They were never called until they GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN- themselves came to the then Law Minister, ISTER OF STATE IN MINISTRY OF HOME Mr. KaushaJ, and subsequently to the then AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM): Why home Minister, Mr. Sethi, telling him: don't you complete and tell as to what happened in High Court?

”28 months have elapsed. Every day, SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: If I do, I something is appearing in the Press. will take a long time. What are these organi- We are being given a bad name. A sation? These are AVARD, Gandhi National regular mudslinging campaign is going Museum, Gandhi Peace Foundation and the on. Please ask the Commission to call Sarva Seva Sangh. All are registered socie- us to testify before them. We are pre- ties under the law of land. They have no pared to cooperate wholeheartedly.” organic relationship among themselves. They are all independent autonomous bodies. Subsequently— I do not know whether AVARD is an umbrella organisation which Mr. Chidambaram is aware of it or not—a has got 900 autonomous independent or- letter was written to the then Home Minister ganisations in various parts of the country on 6th June, 1984 but they never got any which follow a certain planned development reply although orally both the hon. Ministers activity and they receive assistance through assured these gentlemen, who are honour- AVARD. I ask a simple question. How can able citizens or our country until they are AVARD be held guilty for an act of misappro- proved to be dishonest, that they shall be priation of another autonomous body or given an opportunity. So, no rules of proce- organisation? Supposing I am a member of dure were ever framed. The principles of a club. Can the dub be held guilty for an natural justice were given a complete go-by action done by me? Is that the rule of law? until they had no alternative but to go to the The Gandhi Memorial Trust was formed High Court and ask for a stay order. They did after the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi, not go to the High Court until three years for the utilisation of the memorial fund that later. That is a fact to be kept in view. They was collected throughout the country. Any- did not ask for a stay order, immediately. body who was anybody in this country in- They waited for three years. Then they went cluding the great freedom fighters, the great to the High Court and the hon. High Court pioneers of our freedom movement like granted the stay order. The mere fact that Sardar Patel, Mavalankar, the first Speaker, such a stay order was granted is a testimony, Acharya Kripalani, R.R. Diwakar were asso- is a reflection upon the principles, upon the ciated with the Trust and they, in their wis- procedure followed by the Kudal Commis- dom, decided that in order to carry on its sion which violated every law in the book, activities, there should be two independent every known principle of natural justice. Why organisation. They nurtured or shall we say have so many cases been dropped, as I gave birth to the Gandhi Peace Foundation have mentioned earlier, by the Government, and the Gandhi National Museum? They are in its wisdom, after making further enquiries, again autonomous registered bodies with no after due consideration? Is it not a reflection organic linkage among themselves. Sarva in itself, on the quality of the judicial mind that Seva Sangh was a body formed voluntarily has been brought to bear on these ques- by the coming together of various organisations, on these matters? Can you imagine a tions started by Mahatma Gandhi, in 1948 Commission of Inquiry in half of whose cases itself. That was a parallel development to the the Government decides that there is no formation of the Memorial Trust. Eminent case, that nothing can be done, that no law people have been associated with the Trust, has been violated and that no one is ac- like Diwakar and Mavalankar. Is it your case countable? What are those organisations? that the Governing body is to be considered 139 Discussion under AUGUST 14, 1989 Rule 193 140

[Sh. Syed Shahaboddin] fore, could not be disbursed. About five lakhs that were disbursed were recovered from responsible for the loss or the replacement them by the AVARD over a period of time of a particular relic of Mahatma Gandhi? Can and only Rs. 2 lakh remained to be recov- a governing body of any institution be held ered from the artisans which would in due guihy? The store-keeper may be guilty; the course be collected by the AVARD. Where is chowkidar may be guilty; the manager may the misappropriation by George Fernandes? be guilty or the officer in whose custody the Where is the misutilization by the AVARD particular relic was may be guilty. How can a itself? member of thegoverning body be held guilty? If that is not mud-slinging, H that is not Much has been made out of another character, assassination, I do not know what case of map. Sedition, treason, anti-national the terms means. activities, collusion with the imperialist power, destablization of the country—all these Let us take the case of the George phrases have been used. Every abusive Fernandes. I would like to read out to you the word in the political vocabulary has been final conclusion which does not lay any blame used. Every arrow has been shot. But what on Mr. George Fernandes at all. This is the are the facts of the case? Here is George final paragraph on page 217 of the Fourth Verghese, once very close to the late Prime Interim Report: Minister. His sin? He left her side. A national workshop was organized in Delhi on Decem- “The conclusion, therefore, which the ber 15 to December 17, 1979 on the inte- Commission has reached, in the facts grated development of the Ganga- and circumstances of the case is that Breahmputra basin in collaboration with the the AVARD procured the aforesaid Indian Institute of Technology, Delhi and the loan and grant from the KVIC for distri- ICSSR, Indian Council of Social Science bution amongst the artisans of the Research. Who came to it? No foreigner, not parliamentary constituency of... the a single foreigner, attended this workshop. then Union Minister of Industries." Who attended this workshop? A dozen Secretaries to the Government of India, a His only linkage is that the money was to dozen senior Officers of the Government of utilized in his constituency. He did net re- India, people like the Surveyor General of ceive the money; he did not disburse the India, people like the Hydro-grapher Gen- money; he did not use the money. My friend, eral of India, Chairman of the Water and Shri Purohit is completely wrong. Here, I Power Commission, Secretary, Ministry of have a letter from AVARD which says: External Affairs etc. Are all of these people on the pay roll of Foreign Governments? “The factual position, however, is that What about this wretched map? Incidentally, KVIC provided AVARD a total sum of this case has been dropped. The Govern- Rs. 24.37 lakhs for assisting rural arti- ment are not following up this case. I would sans. Out of this, AVARD had already like to inform Shri Purohit. This case of returned Rs. 19.835 lakhs to KVIC in sedition, treason and anti-nationa! activity is 1980 itself." not being followed up by the Government; it has been dropped. When was it dropped? At that time, in 1980, the Kudal Commission Very interesting, ft was dropped on 21.4.1987 had not been established. This is a fact to be when a Joint Secretary of the Government of remembered. What has happened subse- India, Ministry of Defence, made a state- quently? The money could not be utilised ment to the Metropolitan Magistrate who because K was supposed to be a capital was seized of the case, and said: grant and the weavers were not generally prepared to accept the capital gra.it; they “The report has been examined. There wanted working capital. The money, there- are no objections of the Governm ent to 141 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 142

report about closure submitted by the SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: We are CBI and the closure report may be not discussing the Shah Commission today. accepted. The CBI reported, investi- Mr. Chidambaram. It is a fact that there was gation revealed that the maps with the a division in the Gandhian movement. In topographical details pertaining to March, 1975 some people took the side of restricted area of Nagaland and Kerala Vinobhaji and some took the side of were based on publications already Jayaprakashji. Both of them are venerable. available in the market.” I am not going to say that any of thorn acted against the national interest or against his conscience and in our democracy there is And evidence collected by the CBI re- freedom for everybody to act according to vealed that the publication of such maps had his conscience so long as he does not par- not jeopardised the security of the country. ticipate) in any anti-nationaJ or subversive CBI also stated that the investigation further activity. Does any hon. Member really wish revealed that the maps published by AVARD to say today in 1989 that Jayaprakash Nar- were not in respect of prohibited or protected ayan led a subversive movement to des- area of the restricted zone. tablise the country; that he was not a patriot? Shall I remind that on his death the Govern- And what is the magistrate’s final find- ment of Shrimati Indira Gandhi established a ing? “No, offence under the Official Secrets National Memorial Trust in his memory? Sir, Act, 1923 or Criminal Law (Amendment) Act, it is absurd to have these political nuances 1961 was made out. The Closure Report is float around and one cannot accopt Kudal’s accordingly accepted and the case is or- distorted views. dered to be closed.” And the Government have accepted that finding. Government have [SHRI SOMNATH RATH in the Chair] not gone on appeal against this order of the Metropolitan Magistrate. These are the cases 17.20 hrs. that are being thrown across to the people that are being publicised by the mass media. I would like to point out one interesting fact. In 1975-77 prior to the establishment of There is the famous case of GandhijPs the Kudal Commission these very organisa- relic. Again it has been dropped because tions were thoroughly investigated by the obviously no case cab be made out against Intelligence Bureau and they reported to the the governing body or against the director of Home Ministry and the Home Ministry re- the museum, ft is absurd, assuming that ported to Mrs. Gandhi, the then Prime Minis- somebody did replace one relic of Mahatma ter on 12th January, 1976 that their thorough Gandhi, assuming that it was stolen, well I investigation has not revealed anything murky don’t know much about the facts. All I am or criminal. When the file went to Mrs. Gandhi. saying is that Government have accepted She, however, noted on 20th Jufy. 1976— that finding and have decided to drop the time does not permit me—but that quotation case and yet this is being repeated again is available in the report of the Shah Com- and again. mission...... “ ......

Sir, I don't have the time to go into all the MR. CHAIRMAN: ft won’t go on record. cases. The Stalesment wrote an editorial Tit for Ta\ The Kudal Commission is a response SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: Sir, here to the Shah Commission. That is the genesis in this editorial by the Times of India* which of the entire sordid business. entitled 'Digging With Kudal* something very apt has been mentioned. What does it say? SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Will you It says and I quote: characterise the Shah Commission in the same words? “What also casts a deep shadow on **Not recorded. 143 Discussion under AUGUST 14,1989 Rule 193 144

[Sh. Syed Shahabuddin] 1960-1972. 1 would Ike to point out to page 12 of the report in which there is a mention the dirt-digging activities of Mr. Kudal about new projects and fresh assistance in it that his whole exercise has been 1972. And what is the number one executing carried out in the spirit of a vendetta. agency named by the Government of India? When Gandhians had supported the Well, it is said that AVARD, New Delhi is Congress, as they had done when given Rs. 120 lakhs, Rs. 120 lakhs out of Rs. both commonly confronted agrarian 200 lakhs. Where does this money come radicalism, Gandhian institutions were from? From the very same German source! found to be all right. However, when Government of India between 1960 and 1972 apparently a large number of Gandhi- deliberately used AVARD for all the develop- ans turned against the Congress, a ment activities for channeling all the foreign judicial exercise against them was ini- contributions that were received for agricul- tiated through the Kudal Commission". tural development. Today, we are being told that AVARD is bad. If AVARD has a bad I would like to summarise. I would like to character now, it had a bad character then. find out from the Government. When you make a statement and when one sentence I would like to close by saying that this follows another, one assumes a linkage. I Commission of Inquiry is a Commission of would like the hon. Minister to go through his Inquisition because the party, the prosecutor statement of 7.8.1989 and I refer to page 2, and the judge have all become one. Gandhiji, where he talks about a certain sum of money had he been alive— I am speaking of Ma- and then he names certain individuals. First hatma Gandhi—would not have approved of he mentions that the accountable cases are such an inquisition. I am happy, Sir, that the for so much and then he names certain Mccarthy Era is yet to dawn in this country. individuals. Can he on the floor of this House Mr Spade has dug up a log of dirt and thrown link that money to any of those individuals up a lot of mud. But I plead with the Govern- whose names he has mentioned? Does it ment, let the hatchet be buried. Shall it be a not create a false impression that those hundred years war? Shall it be a thousand people are responsible for misappropriating years war? Shall it be a war in which political that particular amount? Is that fair Mr. Chi- norms and moral values shall play no role at dambaram? all? And you shall go on slinging mud and go on assassinating character? I would like to know, Mr. Chairman, why is the Government of India giving expensive I do not hold a brief for anybody, tf there publicity only to the cases and not to the is any criminal charge against anybody, let Action Taken Report? They are not saying him be prosecuted. I demand let him be that such and such charges have been prosecuted. I challenge the Government to dropped. They are only saying that such and prosecute him. Thank you Mr. Chairman. such charges have been made by Kudal Commission. Is that fair? There are cases [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair] which are not established at all. But still they are being publicised. 17.33 hr*.

Sir, in this Commission of Inquiry, they SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY tatk about foreign contribution. One word (Puri): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, presently I about foreign contribution. Here I have got a have been listening to Shahabuddinji. I am document published by the Government of simply surprised that he has completely India in 1972. In 1972, Jaya Prakashji was misunderstood the impact of the Commis- not on the scene. Shah Commission was not sion's Report This report is not the judge- on the scene. This report is called 13 Years ment of a court. He knows the distinction of Freedom From Hunger Campaign-lndia between the findings of a court and the 145 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 {SAKA) Rub 193 146 report of a commission of inquiry. One should long, say from 1962“. Does it not deserve to know that the Commission of Inquiry has be investigated and historical truth be estab- established a prima facie case. He is speak- lished? ing about the money and the time spent. My submission would be that he should not Now, I come to Mr. Kurup. He was the forget that the investigation is still going on Member of Parliament from Kerala State about the assassination of Mr. John Ken- nedy because truth is more valuable than and who has been closely associated with money and time. You know that the Soviet the political life of Kerala. He said that “the people are still investigating about what purpose of writing this letter was to sell the happened in 1939 about the pact of West interest of the country to outside elements Germany and Soviet Union under Stalin’s and to malign the democratically elected leadership. Truth is more important and Government. This is more serious if we take history is more important and money and into consideration the fact that in U.S.A. ever time are not that important. In orderto achieve so many organisations are working to create the truth, the historical truth, we should not confusion and anarchy in India. Another bother about spending of money and time. purpose of writing this letter was to procure funds by giving distorted picture of the State of Kerala.“ Does it not deserve to be investi- 1 would place a point before you regard- gated? Is it not desirable that historical truth ing the situation prevailent during those days. should be established here? Whatever may I would place the observations or the evi- be the expenditure, whatever time it may dence of the Chief Minister of Kerala Shri take, it should be investigated. E.K. Nayanar before you. Now, I wilt come to Shri Unnikrishnan. Shri Narayanar said that "certain Chris- He is also with them. It is not a Congress tian Missionaries sold Christ, Kerala G.S.N. baby. It is the baby of the patriotic elements sold to meet their ends.” On behalf of Gandhi of this country. They demanded that there Smarak Nidhi Shri Pillai wrote a letter about should be an investigation regarding the the political situation in Kerala. It has been anti-national activity. It is not a baby of a stated therein that the situation is so worse, particular party. He has mentioned that “for you give us money, otherwise, the life and the last several decades a number of outside security of the people will be impossible. Shri elements have been taking an excessive Nayanar, who was the Chief Minister of the interest in the domestic political develop- Kerala State - even now he is the Chief ments in the State of Kerala. A large number Minister - during the relevant time, i.e. in of organisations associated with the Catho- 1988. has submitted that "what was stated in lic Church and various other Christian Char- the letter of Shri Pillai was utter falsehood, ity organisations in Western Europe and the contrary to facts existing in Kerala.lt was just United States have also been taking keen selling out the nation for a few lakhs of interest in the political developments and rupees, it was prostituting the mother coun- fluctuating fortunes of the communist move- try. It was not simply anti-communism but it ment in Kerala. It is quite well known that was dear anti-national activity to get finance quite afew over the years have been making from foreign countries." Shri Nayanar has a living through this game and attracting said that “certain Christian Missionaries sold considerable support from foreign agencies Christ, Kerala G.S.N. sold Gandhi to meet based on highly motivated coloured and their ends. Shri Nayanar has also stated that exaggerated versbn of political events in the the Kerala G.S.N. has amassed millions by State. According to Shri Unnikrishnan, the carrying out these nefarious activities for letter of Kerala G.S.N. also belongs to that 147 Discussion under AUGUST 14, 1989 Rule 193 148

[Sh. Brajamohan Mohanty] "... a sensitive area used for Defence purposes, and passed on the information to category. This letter, according to him, was the agencies showing all the mouths of the a highly motivated exercise obviously out of lake—the poisonous nature of weeds, the some deep rooted prejudice or one being depth of the water near the mouths of the used for some positive material gain." lake, and various other details."

Now, I invite Mr. Shahabuddin's atten- Why should this information go to for- tion to the observations of Shri Unnikrish- eign countries? That is why I say that some nan. What does that mean? Is it not neces- people knowingly and consciously were doing sary that these matters should be investi- it; some people were involved, without know- gated? One Press had written that it is like ing the significance of passing on this infor- the Shah Commission. It is not like the Shah mation. Commission. The Shah Commission has not made any charge against Mrs Gandhi He spoke about George Fernandes. I that she was anti-national. I know what were do not want to say anything. Who does not the charges. And nowhere, not even her know the role of George Fernandes—in this worst enemies had alleged that Indira Gandhi country? Does he not know that he was was anti-national. Nobody said that. So, this negotiating with the West German Socialists is quite different. This is a question of na- for funds, and to become the Prime Minister? tional security, national sovereignty; and it is It is not my version; it is the version of the a question of some people knowingly and Janata Party d uring those days. Some friend s some unknowingly piaying into the hands, or of the Janata Party were alleging it. He had to the tune, of foreign countries; and that is a link with some people— I do not want to the tragedy of the situation. name them—in West Germany, and had financial links; and he dreamt that he would I do not say against whom the allegation be the Prime Minister of India. Has he gone is there. No doubt, it has not been estab- through the ‘Morarji Papers’ which Gandhiji’s lished that somebody took the money, grandson has written? It is not that some- somebody has written, as a Minister, for the body else has written “Morarji Papers". grant to certain organizations. Is it not their ‘Morarji Papers' has been written by moral responsibility to see how the money Gandhiji's grandson. You will find that in has been spent? Is it not their moral respon- 'Morarji Papers’ rt has been written that it has sibility to give information to the Kudal been alleged by Janata Party members that Commission saying; This is our role in the George Fernandes was collecting Rs. 1 lakh whole affair’? They do not give h; and now per month from the National Textiles Corpo- they say that nothing has been done. ration; and that Morarjibhai directed George Fernandes saying: These are the allega- tions. Get yourself cleared.’ Has he got Now I come to another point, viz. how himself cleared? this sensitive information has been passed on. You know that the Chilka Lake is in V.P. Singh and the Janata Dal say that Orissa; it is in my constituency. There is also they will fight the elections on the issue viz. some Defence establishment in Chilka. All that there should be no corruption in high the information about Chilka Lake has gone places. Is this a low place? t do not under- to the foreign agencies. Why? Do you know stand. I was closely watching the position what has happened? They say that the lake since the publication of that book, 'Morarji is— Papers’. 'Morarji Papers' has been written 149 Discussion under SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) R ub 193 150 by Gandhqfs grandson, and Morarji is un- that the Government is not partisan? Had the happy that he was misusing his privilege. Government been partisan, no case would However, nowhere I have seen any of the have been dropped? All the cases would Janata Dal leaders issuing a counter-state- have been prosecuted to the end and they ment that nothing of that sort had happened. would have been harassed. But the Govern- Nowhere was there any contradiction. They ment saw that there was no evidence or the are going to fight the elections on the basis evidence was not convincing or could not be that there should be no corruption in high established in a court of law. The Govern- places. ment is quite fair. So, in that background, they dropped 58 cases. I would submit that Now I come to the workshop on Barak in all those cases where corruption is in- Valley. Who attended it? I say that informa- volved, where anti-national activities are tion is available that Nepal attended it; Bhu- involved, they should be properly investi- tan's representative attended it, and many gated and appropriate action should be taken other foreigners attended it. It is a very on the basis of the evidence. The truth must sensitive area. I had worked in Barak Valley. be established. There should be no compro- I know how much of a sensitive area it is. On mise on this issue. We also do not want that that side there is Bangladesh, and on this anybody should be harassed unnecessarily. side we have India; and there is only a river in between. So, that is the area about which Now, I am coming to the Orissa case, it information was being collected, to be passed is a very interesting case. It is regarding on toforeign agencies. Why did they need it? Orissa Gram Vikas Foundation. The Chair- Cant people understand; were they fools? man was Shri Rabi Ray. He was Minister Some people knowingly were doing it, and here. He had written about the flood affected some people were unknowingly doing it. people, the artisans; he wanted Rs. 25,000 to be given to him for them. The scheme that So far as these agencies are ooncerned, was formulated by Shri George Fernandes, I am told that in the report it is revealed that was not applicable to Orissa; it was appli- they had written to the World Bank not to cable to Bihar, UP. Rajasthan, Haryana, advance any loan for the implementation of Punjab, West Bengal and Delhi. To Orissa, the Sarovar dam in Gujarat. it was extended without any order. So, it was the first irregularity that was committed. Why? The State Government will not Secondly, he applied for Rs. 25,000 for giv- give proper compensation to the displaced ing relief to the flood affected people, but he persons. Is this the way they are doing got Rs. 50,000. You know how things were things? How are you involved in it? The moving during those days. What was the World Bank will advance loan to India for that difficulty? The difficulty was how the money particular Project. That is not their concern. was spent. It was not that the Commission So, I would demand that these matters should found irregularities; it was the AG of Orissa be fully investigated. There should be no who found irregularities. There was no evi- compromise on this issue. The truth should dence of how the money was spent. be revealed and an appropriate action should be taken against the guilty persons. I don’t Paragraph 6 of the letter reads as fol- even say with regard to some cases where lows: people are guilty. If the Government feels that it is not necessary, then they should That the Foundation in its accounts leave it. Fifty-eight cases have been dropped. reflected the utilisation of the entire What does it establish? Does it not establish grant of Rs. 50,000/- towards the pur- 151 Discussion under AUGUST 14,1989 Buie 193 152

(Sh. Brajamohan Mohanty] upon the hon. Home Minister to see that this matter be placed before the public; lei the chase of tools and equipments only, people of India must know about this fact. Let contrary to the understanding given by a very stringent action be taken against the Shri Rabi Ray in his letter dated 28th guilty people. September 1978...." [Translation] What was the purpose for which the money was given? It was not utilised for the SHRI AZIZ QURESHI (Satna): Mr. purpose for which it was given. It further Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to begin my reads as follows: speech by quoting the speech of Shrimati Indira Gandhi from the Daily Telegraph dated “The the Accountant General, Orissa, Oct. 31,1984 published from Calcutta. Shri- who audited the accounts of the Foun- mati Gandhi had said. dation in May^June 1980 pointed out (a) that the voucher numbers for pur- [English] chase of tools/equipment for Rs. 27,270.60 were altered several times; "The inquiry by Kudal Commission was (b) the payment of Rs. 14,000/- to Shri meant to bring to light irregularities commit- Raghunath Patro towards the cost of ted in the name of helping poor families." 40 handlooms was on the basis of a kutcha bill and the kutcha receipts on [Translation] plain paper and that there was nothing on record to show that the said Shri Fairly good discussion has already taken Raghunath Patro was a regular/recog- place on this issue in the House and I do not nised supplier; (c) No vouchers in want to waste the time of the House merely support of transport charges of Rs. by repeating all those things. But I would like 635/- were produced; (d) None of the to express my views on six major issues. vouchers contained any indication that Just now, Shri Shahabuddin has pleaded the supplies were received in good the case of the persons whose names have condition and the same were taken on been mentioned in the report submitted by stock account; (e) None of the vouch- the Kudal Commission and against whom ers had been authenticated either by charges have been levelled. When I heard its Managing Trustees Shri A.C. Sen his speech I was reminded of a famous Urdu or any other trustee." couplet. Urdu poet has said:-

So, in that background, these are the “Hum aah bhi karte hein, to ho jate irregularities. Who will tolerate them? Why hein badnam will the nation tolerate them? Why should the Woh katal bhi karte hein, to charcha public money be misused, misappropriated, nahin hota* misutilised and mis-spent? This must be properly investigated. I do not say who is When Pandit Nehru led the Kisan Agita- responsible. The persons responsible for all tion and was arrested for the first time and these things must be prosecuted. The lead- presented before an English Magistrate, he ers who had initiated this scheme and the said, leaders who had obtained fund in writing, [English] they had the moral responsibility to see that the funds were properly spent. I would urge Today you might have forced me to stay in 153 Discussion underSRAVANA 23,1911 (SAKA) Rub 193 154 the dock, but the whole of the English Empire with the result that they would never be able stands before the bar of human fry". to face the people in future.

[Translation] Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, the question is not one of going into the technicalities raised by Shri Shahabuddin and holding Today the benches on the other side are discussion on them. The question is to find vacant and the members of the opposition out whether crores of rupees have been have quit their seats. They resigned from the brought into the country through foreign House on Bofors issue and the CAG report. agencies. 1 would Ike to quote excerpts from They resigned in name of value based poli- Kudal Commission’s Report:- tics and thus betrayed the people who had elected them. Through you, I would Ike to l English] askthe hon. Member Shri Shahabuddin who referred to mud stinging and dust throwing in For smaller projects of voluntary agen- politics that it would have been better had he cies, funds were mobilised by AVARD from asked the san e question to but hon. friends the Swiss Development Cooperation, who are no more members of this House amounting to Rs. 18,26,044 but what sur- after they resigned from the Membership as prises everyone, as pointed out in the Kudal they did nothing except playing dirty politics Commission, that there was no mobilisation during the last f I ye years. They are the people of funds from local sources. Later on, the who created such a polluted atmosphere, percentage of foreign funds increased from lowered the level of politics, levelled false 52.9 per cent in 1966 to 88 per cent during charges and often repeated them thinking the Janata regime." that the people would believe them. Per- haps, history and future generations never [Translation] forgive them. These very persons levelled charges against the Government with the I would like to ask Shri Shahabuddin and his motive of maliguing the image of the leaders friends what clarification they would like to and the Prime Minister of the country Shri give in this regard. Similarly, what Shri Rajiv Gandhi before the public. But now the Shahabuddin would like to say about AV- same persons who talked of value-based ARD the organisation which holds an inter- politics in the pas* have been held guilty by national affiliation and which is a Member of the Kudal Commission. I think that they the Governing Body of the International themselves have been exposed before the Council of Voluntary Agencies since 1981.1 public and their own conscience has been would like to quote the statistics given by throwing multi-feceted spotlight on them that Kudal Commission.

[English]

Year______Name of Project______Amount

1979 Rural Development Rs. 68,40,943.72 (EZE, Bonn gave a grant of Rs. 44,55,589.95) 1980 Rural Development Rs. 53,08,542.02 (EZE, Bonn gave a grant of Rs. 9,35,448.50) 1981 Rural Development Rs. 12,49,273.45 (EZE, Bonn gave a grant of Rs. 7,73,846.55) 155 Discussion under Rule 193 AUGUST 14,1989 Employees'State Ins. 156 (Amdt) BUI [Sh. Aziz Qureshi] 18.00 h r*.

[ Translation] EMPLOYEES’ STATE INSURANCE (AMENDMENT) BILL Three years ago I had asked a few question through an unstarred question in [English] this House. The questions were: How much funds have been given by EZE to remove THE MINISTER OF LABOUR (SHRI poverty and to save the people from starva- BINDESHWARI DUBEY): ! beg to move: tion; and whether this foreign agency has prepared the map of restricted areas and “That the Bill further to amend the published them? The reply from the Govern- Employees’ State Insurance Act, 1948, ment was in the affirmative. The details were as passed by Rajya Sabha, be taken also given. into consideration.”

[English] As the hon. Members will be aware, the Employees’ State Insurance Act, 1948 pro- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You can vides, inter-alia, for grant of cash benefits to continue next time. the employees in the event of sickness, maternity and employment injury. In addi- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE tion, medical care is provided to the insured MINISTRYOFPARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS person and his/her family in kind. The Act AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE DE- which is applicable, in the first instance, to PARTMENT OF C H E M 1C ALS AN D P ETRO- non-seasonal factories employing 20or more CHEMICALS IN THE MINISTRY OF IN- persons and using power in the manufactur- DUSTRY (SHRI P. NAMGYAL): Mr. Dep- ing process, is now being gradually extended uty-Speaker, Sir, I propose that the sitting of area-wise to certain new classes of estab- the House be extended by one hour. lishments, in a phased manner. As on 31.12.1988, the Act covered about 61.68 THE MINISTER OF LABOUR (SHRI lakh workers in 580 industrial centres in the BINDESHWARIDUBEY): In that case, I can country. The total number of beneficiaries move the Employees’ State Insurance including the family members for medical (Amendment) Bill for consideration. care was about 2.73 crores.

SHRI SOMNATH RATH (Aska): We The working of the Employees’ State can also pass it. Insurance Scheme has been reviewed from time to time. A sub-committee of the ESI MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Is it the sense Corporation had made an in-depth study of of the House that we sit late by one hour? the various provisions of the Act and made certain recommendations in 1978. Another SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes. Committee was set up by the Ministry of Labour subsequently to review the working MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The sitting of the Scheme. This Committee had submit- of the House is extended upto 1900 hours. ted its report to the Government in 1982. The two Committees together had made a num- We shaH take up next item—No. 10. ber of recommendations involving am end- Shri Bindeshwan Dubey. ment of the Act. These recommendations called for a comprehensive amendment Bill 157 Employees'State SRAVANA 23.1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 158

As, however, drafting of a comprehensive ries. The areas with concentration of facto- amendment Bill was likely to take time, we ries have since been generally covered. It is, had brought forward an amending Bill in therefore, now necessary to cover other 1984 for carrying out certain amendments coverabie establishments, along with facto- such as raising the wage limit for coverage of ries. It is accordingly now proposed to make employees from Rs. 1000/- to Rs. 1600/- per the Act applicable to other coverable estab- month, for which there was a pressing lishments along with factories. demand. The Act was accordingly amended in 1984. The other amendments suggested At present, the Corporation has to make were not of a very pressing nature, and, recruitment to all posts corresponding to therefore, all the pending recommendations group ‘A’ and ‘B’ posts under the Central were further reviewed and incorporated into Government through the UPSC. The experi- a comprehensive amendment Bill which has ence over the years has shown that recruit- now been introduced. ment to posts through the UPSC generally takes considerable time. Delay in filling up of There are two amendments which are the posts of medical officers in ESI dispensa- of particular interest to the workers. The first ries/hospitals is bound to adversely affect of these amendments relates to inclusion of the service provided to the beneficiaries. It children of insured persons upto the age of is, therefore, now proposed to withdraw the 21 years and infirm children without any age 'medical posts’ in the Corporation from the restriction in the definition of "fam ily", so as to purview of the UPSC and to empower the make them eligible for medical benefit under Corporation to make direct recruitment to the Act. these posts through its own Selection Board, so as to ensure timely filling up of the posts. At present, medical benefit is available only to minor children i.e. children upto the An important aspect of the administra- age of 18 years. The second amendment tion of the ESI Scheme relates to the auton- seeks to provide for continuance of medical omy of the ESI Corporation which is self- benefit to the insured persons, who have to financing. The members of the ESI Corpora- leave insurable employment due to employ- tion, particularly the representatives of the ment injury, and retired insured persons and employers and employees have been plead- their spouses, subject to payment of contri- ing for greater autonomy and freedom of bution. At present, medical benefit is avail- action for the Corporation. Considering the able to insured persons only so long as they number of persons who contribute to the are in insurable employment. scheme and the vast amount of funds handled, a certain measure of Government Under the existing provisions of the Act, control seems to be unavoidable. However, the Act is made applicable in the first in- any rigid control of the organisation, with a stance, to factories. The provisions of the Act view to safeguarding the funds and the inter- are being extended area-wise, in a phased est of the workers, is bound to curb initiative manner. Normally the provisions of the Act and effect service. The Government has, are implemented in areas with concentration therefore, after considering all aspects of the of about 1000 employees for whom viable matter, decided to confer enhanced powers medical arrangements can be made. At to the Corporation in the matter of creation of present, some difficulty is being experienced posts, appointment of officers and applica- in implementing the provisions of the Act in tion of the Government rules relating to pay, new areas, as {he Act has to be made allowances and other conditions of service applicable in the first instance only to facto- to their officers and staff. It is also proposed 159 Employees’ State AUGUST 14, 1989 Ins. (AmdL) BUI 160

(Sh. Bindeshwari Dufoey] present, all these provisions are governed by specific provisions of the Act. Any changes to increase the number of representatives of in these provisions require amendment of employers and employees on the Corpora- the Act, which usually takes time. It is, there- tion from five each to ten each, so as to give fore, now proposed to provide for prescrib- them greater representation. ing all these matters in the rules so that necessary changes may be effected as and Another major area of concern has been when necessary. The copies of notifications the mounting arrears of ESI dues. Contribu- carrying out amendments in the rules would, tions have to be collected from a large number however, be laid before Parliament as al- of employers, some of whom default in ready provided in the Act. payment of contribution. The Government has been rather concerned about the default These are some of the more important in payment of contribution, which though amendments proposed. I hope that the small in relation to the total quantum of funds Members will welcome the proposed amend- handled, is large enough in absolute terms to ments. cause anxiety. The defaults may sometimes occur for economic reasons, but all defaults The Bill has been brought to improve cannot be ascribed to this. In some cases, in the functioning of the Corporation to take particular, wilful default cannot be ruled out. care that more adequate facilities, like Besides, whatever be the cause, the default medical care, health and other facilities as in payment of contribution by an employer provided in the original Act, are made avail- effects the financial position of the Corpora- able. I think the Members of the House have tion and consequently grant of benefit to the appreciated this Amending Bill and therefore insured persons. As on 31.3.1989, the total they have not suggested any amendment. amount of arrears of ESI dues (including With these words, I commend the Bill for the interest) amounted to about Rs. 116.37 consideration and passing by this august crores. The ESI authorities have been taking House. I hope the hon. Members will pass all possible legal and penal action for realisa- this Bill even without discussion as it is tion of arrears but arrears have been gradu- primarily aimed at ehancing the welfare ally mounting. In orderto ensure early recov- measures of the E.S.I. Working class work- ery of the outstanding dues, it is now pro- ing in small factories and other shops. posed to set up an independent recovery machinery of the ESI Corporation on the SHRI SOMNATH RATH (Aska): Mr. lines of the recovery machinery of the In- Deputy-Speaker, Sir, this is a Bill for the come Tax Department. It is also proposed to welfare of the workers. It is a progressive Bill. plug the loopholes in the existing provisions There is no doubt about it. It provides medi- of the Act and to make the various penal cal facilities for the family members of the provisions in the Act more stringent. workers and also the scope for insurance of the workers extended. While welcoming the There are certain provisions, such as, measures taken by the Government for the those relating to wage limit for coverage benefit of workers, I would like to suggest under the Act, wage limit for exemption of one thing to the hon. Minister. Sir, the em- employees from payment of employees ployers never contribute their share in right contribution, which require suitable enhance- time and they are in arrears of contrfoution of ment. Similarly, the rates of various benefits the workers' provident fund. What they do is may also have to be periodically enhanced that in the Board, there are members who to compensate for rise in the cost of living. At are actually not in existence. This Bill ex- 161 Employees'State SRAVANA 23,1911 {SAKA) Rule 193 162

tends not only to factories but also to certain E.S.I. Dispensaries and hospitals are limited establishments. It Is a very good measure. in number. These institutions cannot provide But the Members of the Board and of the medical facilities to all the workers. So, there Managing Committee are in many places should be one dispensary and hospital fof a fictitious and they have no property of their certain number of workers working in indus- own and they do not contribute their share. tries or factories. My suggestion would be Further, when the Government take efforts that for 5,000 workers, one ESI dispensary to realise the arrears from them, they go to should be established either by the Govern- the High Court and get a stay order and the ment of India or by the State Government stay orders continue for an indefinite time. and for 25,000 workers there should be one On account of this, the workers are not able hospital. Besides, I fully appreciate the con- to benefit. So, I would request the hon. cept of the hon. Minister about child labour. Minister to see that necessary legislations or We have discussed it several times here but amendments to existing law may be made to unfortunately, nobody is looking after them. take away the jurisdiction of the High Court Even today, I can name many of the States, to grant stay orders. Let there be Tribunal. It but I should not name them. Many small should be decided by the Tribunal and no boys below 13 years are working in Beedi High Court should entertain these cases. factories and in several industries. Nobody There are many instances. In West Bengal, is looking after them and no facility is pro- for factories, many cases are pending and vided by the employers to these child work- crores and crores of rupees are not being ers. So, I would request that the Amendment realised from the employers. The is the main should be such that stringent punishment point to which attention should be given by should be given for violation of any welfare the Government and necessary steps should measures for the child workers sanctioned in be taken to see that employees don't cheat this Act. With these words, I whole-heartedly the workers and victimise the workers. support this Bill.

SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA (Balasore): [ Translation1 Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I wholeheartedly support the Amendment to the Act brought SHRI AZIZ QURESHI (Satna): Mr. by the hon. Minister. I would only request the Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Bill and hon. Minister that this facility may be ex- congratulate the hon. Minister for introduc- tended to the workers who are working in the ing the Bill in the House. I won’t take much rural areas, and are handling the agricultural time. I would like to draw his attention of the impiiments like tractors, water pump sets, hon. Minister to the fact that there are a etc. because in the rural areas there is no number of areas in the country where the facility either medical or any other facility laws meant for the protection of labourers which is applicable for the welfare of the have remained confine only to books and labour in the factories and industrial sectors. they are not implemented effectively. In my Those facilities are not available to the la- own constituency Satna, there is a factory bourers or the workers who are working in named Satna Cemented Lime Factory, where the rural areas. So, my humble submission thousands of labourers work. But the man- to the hon. Minister is that this facility may agement neither got any dispensary or hos- also be extended to the labour working with pital constructed with their own expenses machines and also implements in rural ar- nor did they give permission to open these eas because they are not organised and facilities by the Government on the land they nobody cares for them. I would like to submit acquired on lease basis. On the contrary, one more point. What we have noticed is that they closed the hospitial which had already 163 Employees’ State AUGUST 14,1989 Ins. (AmdL) Bill 164

[Sh. Aziz Qureshi] ing class in Kerala, namely the cashew workers of the State. been functioning there. They are capitalists and that is why the voice of labourers is not The Employees State Insurance Act, heard. I represent that area in the House and 1948 has been amended several times. The I have been constantly trying for the last working of the scheme has often been re- three years to provide facilities to them, but viewed. Several committees have gone into I did not successed in my efforts. Neither the working of the scheme, started in 1948, there is any electricity nor drinking water. various times. The last amendment was Health services and educational institutions made in 1984 which gave certain additional are missing. They have not allowed any benefits to the workers. For instance, the welfare work to be done on their land which wage limit for coverage of employees was they took on lease basis. The hon. Minister raised through that amendment from Rs. may note down that in Satna there is Satna 1,000 to Rs. 1600 per month. But unfortu- Cemente Lime Factory. The law should have nately, as far as the cashew workers of a provision for stringent action to be taken Kerala are concerned, a particular measure against the owners of the factories who do which sought to rationalise the working of the not provide the basic facilities to the Labour- scheme had affected the cashew workers ers. Otherwise the laws will be of no use and adversely. I am referring to the particular they would remain confined only to statistic amendment made in 1984 which changed book. the definition of wage period for making workers eligible for benefit under the scheme [English] from 13 week in a half year to 91 days in a half year. That amendment was brought by THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE the Central Government with altogether good MINISTRY OF INFORMATION AND and bona fide intention. The purpose was to BROADCASTING (SHRI S. KRISHNA streamline the working of the scheme and to KUMAR): Sir, I would like to make this brief ensure that the eligibility criterion is not intervention to congratulate the hon. Labour misused by any particular section of the Minister Shri Bhindeshwari Du bey as well as employees. Buttechnically uptothat amend- our Prime Minister for bringing forward this ment, even though the cashew worker theo- legislation which increases the benefits to retically worked only one day a week, if he different categories of workers all over the was able to put in 13 stamp cards under the country, which proposes to rationalise the ESI Act, within a half year, to the Corpora- working of the Employees' State Insurance tion, that is, theoretically even if he worked Scheme and give further devolution of pow- for only 13 days in a half year, he would have ers and flexibility of working to the ESI Cor- been eligible for benefits under the ESI poration. The hon. Labour Minister has, in Scheme, though, of course, the quantum of his introductory statement, given a compre- benef its would only be proportionate to the hensive picture of the benefits which are number of days’ contributions he had made proposed to be given to the working class to the Corporation. Because of the amend- through this Bill. Sir, we in Kerala are particu- ment of 1984 changing the 13 week wage larly happy that the Government of India, period to 91 days, which was brought for- particularly the hon. Labour Minister has weard by the Central Government, based on taken the initiative to bring forward this the reports of the committee which went into amendment. This amendment will, inter alia the working of the ESI Scheme, a large give substantial benefits to one of the most section of the cashew workers who could not important segments of the traditional work- satisfy the criteria benef its of were denied of 165 Empbyoes' State SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 166 the ESI Scheme from 1 984 onwards. This is this particular amendment, taking the power becaue the conditions in the cashew indus- under its wings to regulate the wage period, try are such that it was rarely possible to give the eligibility criterion and other parameters continued work of 91 days in a half year. in the working of the ESI Scheme so that Government, in its wisdom and in its enlight- My constituency of Quilon in Kerala has ened opinion, car. regulate the working of the more than 1 1 !2 lakh cashew workers’ fami- ESI Scheme in particular areas of our coun- lies. Not only are they a very sizeable seg- try, for particular sections of the working ment of the population of the area but they class, taking into consideration the practical represent the most oganised working class. and realistic situation which exists in those Stalwarts of my own Party and of public life segments of the working class. in India like ate Shri C.M. Stephen were renowned trade unionists in the cashew field Sections 19, 20, 21 etc. of the new and it were they who organised the cashew Amendments and sub-sections thereof workers behind the nationalist movement. enable the Central Government to fix eligibil- The majority of the cashew workers are ity criteria for sickness benefit, conditions women and they include a large number o( under which such benefit can be given, rate Harijans. Because of the nature of process- and period thereof, the qualification of the ing in the cashew industry which requires a insured women to claimed maternity benefit, specific talent which only women in certain the rates and periods of disablement, rales areas such as Quilon, have able to develop and periods of the other benefits under the over the years, cashew processing industry Act as may be specifically prescribed by has tended to concentrate in that area. Many Government. In the previous amendment of the Opposition parties and Opposition and in the existing Act, these eligibility crite- trade unions have been making political ria were fixed in absolute terms. For in- capital out of the changed definition of the stance, 91 days in a half year was fixed as work period which denied some sections of the wage period making workers eligible for the workers the benefit which were enjoying sickness benefits. It was not possible to fix ever since the inception of the Act in 1938. different criteria for specific industry for specific reasons without amending the Act. It All the members of Parliament from would have been too onerous and too diffi- Kerala including myself have been entreat- cult and virtually impossible to amend the ing the Central Government to make a spe- Act for each category of ind ustry even though cial exemption for cashew workers but obvi- each category of industry and working class ously it was not possible to make an amend- had a genuine case. By making this new ment in the ESI Act for cashew workers amendment, the ESI Act will become flexible alone in a large country like India. There are and the Government will be in a position to many other areas of activity of organised give relaxed conditions for availing of the working class such as sugar, jute mills where benefits not only by cashew workers but by also the work is of a seasonal nature even workers similarly situated in any other part of though the workers work in registered facto- the country who have a genuine grievance ries and they are eligible for the benefits with respect to any of the benefits under the under the ESI Act. Ultimately due to the Act. sagacity of the Labour Minister and the kind- ness of our hon. Prime Minister, this problem Through the enacting provisions of the is sought to be solved by not making a New Amendments, benefits such as Medical specific exemption in the case of cashew benefit, Sickness benefit, Extended Sick- workers as such, but by Government through ness benefit, Accident benefit, Permanent 167 Employees' State AUGUST 14,1989 Ins. (Arndt.) BUI 168

[Sh. S. Krishna Kumar] these two lakh poor women, who depend on the cashew industry and who have been the Disablement benefit, Maternity benefit, beneficiaries of the ESI Act since 1938 Funeral benefit, Dependent benefit and onwards, ever since the ESI Act came into Rehabilitation benefit to which workers are being, will get benef it which are not less than eligible under the Act will be available to the what they were enjoying all these years cashew workers even though they are not underthe Act, under the previous legislation. able to fulfil 91 day in a half year criterian which was necessary under the previous Hon. Prime Minister and the Labour Act. As soon as this Bill is passed, hon. Minister are taking the leadership in ensur- Labour Minister has assured the Members ing that working class of the country get a fair of Parliament from Kerala and publicmen deal and all new labour legislation confer from Kerala that a separate administrative enhanced benefits and never curtail the schemes will be promulgated making use of existing benefit. The convention has also the provisions of this Act separately stipulat- been, that whatever benefits, rightly or ing the eligibility criteria, taking into condition wrongly by sections of the working class the practical reality of the number of days have been enjoying for decades, by tradi- cashew workers are able to work in Kerala tion, we do not take away from the existing and elsewhere. benefits.

When the Congress Government was I am sure the hon. Minister will keep in power in Kerala, we were able to give to these things in mind. He has been extremely the cashew workers a minimum of 120 days kind already in bringing the New amend- work in a year because we are able to ment. When the administrative scheme is procure the lion’s portion of the raw cashew formulated, it may be got through the ESI which was produced in the whole of the Corporation and promulgated before Onam, country and make it available to our facto- our national festival in Kerala in September ries. We are also able to import substantial which is emotionally important to the cashew quantity of raw nut from abroad. But because workers and the people of the State. I have of the unprincipled and negative policies no doubt in my mind that the Government of being followed by the present Marxist Gov- Shri Rajiv Gandhi will give this benefit as my ernment in Kerala, last year, they were able leader in Kerala Shri K. Kantnakaran and to give work only for about fifty to sixty days. Kerala’s PCC (I) President, Shri A.K. Antony This year they may be able to give a little have already requested anticipating Gov- more. So, irrespective of the numberof days, ernment’s goodwill, as an Onam gift to the on the average, they can get only hundred cashew workers of Kerala, that the new days work because the total raw but produc- cashew workers ESI scheme will be an- tion in the country is only one and a half lakh nounced before Onam season starts in the tonnes whereas it requires five lakh tonnes middle of September. of raw material or raw cashew to give, say three hundred days workayearto the cashew I would also like to congratulate the workers of the State. Labour Minister because very major fresh benefit is also sought to be given by this Therefore, I am sure, the hon. Labour amendment, that is now the children of the Minister will fix the criteria on in such a way workers including cashew workers will be that not only will the cashew workers be able given the medical benefit to which they were to get the benefit under this scheme but the not eligible before. The children of insured limit should be fixed in such a manner that persons upto the age of 21 years and infirm 169 Employees'State SRAVANA 23, 1911 {SAKA) Rule 193 170 children without any age restriction have who have not only supported this Bill but also bean included in the definition of the family of appreciated its objective. the worker, so that now they will also, as per this amendment, become eligible for medi- Shri Somnath Rath said in his speech cal benefits under the Act. This also is a very that the arrears of the employers’ contribu- far-reaching benefits as far as the working tion towards E.S.I. were increasing. He also class is concerned. asked the Government to take strict measures for the recovery of these arrears. There is a provision for this purpose in this Amend- I do not want to take much of your time. ing Bill and the Government will set up an I would like to congratulate the Labour Min- independent machinery which will improve ister and the Ministry—not only Shri Dubey, the recovery process. Apart from this, we are but also his able junior colleague Shri Ma- asking the State Governments to depute laviya—for helping Kerala and the cashew some judicial officers for our help to expedite workers, though this amendment is not for the recovery cases which are pending. We cashew workers alone, it is for all workers; shall also try to set up special courts if the yet the cashew workers probably stand to need arises. Till now the E.S.I. has recov- benefit most of all from this amendment. ered about Rs. 3,350 crores. I agree that the entire amount should be recovered and ar- The Opposition Parties in Kerala were rears should be *ully cleared. But there are mocking at us all these years. They said, our some representatives of the employers who assurance that this ESI Act will be amended do not have any assets and, as such, they do to give benefits to the cashew workers of not have any accountability or responsibility. Kerala will never be implemented. They were This problem has to be solved. When the mocking at us saying that this is just an Corporation is reconstituted, we shall see to empty promise and such an amendment can it that only those representatives find a place never be made in an All India Act to benefit in it who plead the case of employees with the cashew workers. The Marxist Govern- full responsibility. This Bill provides for an ment in Kerala has not taken any step in the increase in the number of representatives of last two years to persuade the Central Gov- the employers and employees in the Corpo- ernment to bring this amendment. It is the ration. We shall prefer such representatives Congress MPs of the State who have been who can help us recover the arrears due pursuing this amendment with single minded from the employers and are aware of their devotion and now made this enlightened responsibilities. legislation possible. I had promised the cashew workers that, before August 15 this Expressing his support for the Bill, hon. legislation will be passed in the Rajya Sabha Shri Jena said that there are a number of and the Lok Sabha. We are most grateful to areas where the Corporation does not have the Hon. Prime Minister and the Hon. Labour any hospitals or dispensaries. For this pur- Minister because this evening, the 14th of pose, there is a norm that dispensaries would August, this Bill is being passed by this be provided at places where there are at august House. least 1000 insured workers of the Corpora- tion. At these dispensaries, medicines, [ Translation] ambulance, doctors and pharmacists are available. At places where there are 12,000 THE MINISTER OF LABOUR (SHRI insured workmen of the Corporation, an BINDESHWARI DUBEY): Mr. Deputy- hospital is provided. There are 104 E.S.I. Speaker Sir, I thank all those hon. Members hospitals in the country. These are large 171 Employees'State AUGUST 14,1989 Ins. (Arndt.) BUI M 2

[Sh. Bindeshwari Dubey] extend E.S.I. benefits to workers over there. hospitals and there are large hospitals and Hon. Shri Krishna Kumar expressed his there are many dispensaries also. In the support for the Bill and also thanked the hon. Corporation meetings, representativesofthe Prime Minister and myself for the same. employers and employees frequently com- Apart from what I discussed in my speech, plain that the medical facilities are not satis- he also read out a few clauses. All these factory. One of the main reasons for this is points highlighted the increased benefits that vacancies of doctors were not filled up envisaged for insured persons their depend- on time. When this Act was f irst passed we ents and the disabled through improved expected it to have a wide coverage that medical facilities. He mentioned the case of would benefit many people. It is believed that cashew workers in particular. In fact, since of all security schemes in the world, this the time I assumed charge as Minister of social security scheme is the biggest. In Labour, he has been regularly taking up the course of time, it was felt that this Corpora- case of cashew workers with me. He dis- tion is not really enjoying autonomy although cussed this matter with the hon. Prime Prime it is an autonomous Corporation. So greater Minister also and said that cashew workers autonomy will be provided to this body so as were entitled to E.S.I. benefits. Through an to improve its functioning. One of the objec- amendment in 1984, some changes in the tives of this Bill is to empower the Govern- eligibility conditions deprived the workers of ment to have an overall control over the the benefits. Since then I have been thinking Corporation but at the same time, it has to of a way to restore E.S. I. facilities to cashew ensure that there is no impediments in its workers of which they had been deprived functioning and its objective of providing through an amendment in 1984. This Bill will better medical facilities to insured workmen also empower the Corporation to read just is fulfilled. the eligibility criteria so as to cover all workers. The eligibility criteria may be prescribed If hon. Shri Jena prinpoints a particular according to the prevailing situation, in this area which fulfill the prescribed norms, the manner adequate medical facilities can be Government would definitely help in setting provided to workers and their dependents. up of dispensaries or hospitals over there. As soon as this Bill is passed, it will become As a Chairman of the Corporation, I shall see an Act and we shall immediately formulate a that necessary approval is given in the scheme, deliberations for which have al- meeting. ready started. This Bill is related to essential welfare measures, and when the House passes this Bill it will become an Act. The My other colleague hon. Shri Aziz draft for the scheme is under preparation. He Qureshi referred to the situation prevailing in said that if the scheme was launched on the Satna. I was pained to hear that there are auspicious occasion of Onam, the cashew many places which have industrial estab- workers and other workmen who had been lishments but are not covered by the E.S.I. deprived of benefits would be very happy. We shall take all the details from him and I Hon. Shri Rajiv Gandhi’s Government is assure him that if E.S.I. coverage has not committed to providing a respectable status been possible due to interference from any in society to citizens of this country who employer, appropriate action will betaken to sweat and toil to earn their daily bread. Any 173 Employees' Stats SRAVANA 23, 1911 (SAKA) tns ( Amdt.) Bit! 174 worker can be induded in this scheme and [English] brought under the purview of social security measures. Our happiness lies in their being MR. DEPUTY SPEKAER: The ques- happy. We shall do our best to finalize the tion is: scheme before the festival of Onam so that we can share their happiness. “That the Bill further to amend the Employees’ State Insurance Act 1943, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be taken into con- Hon. Shri Jena spoke about the prob- sideration.” lems being faced by the btdi workers. There is a separate scheme for bidi workers—Bidi The motion was adopted workers Cess Act and Bidi Workers Fund Act through which separate medical and other MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The House facilities are being provided to them. It does will now take up Clause-by-Clause consid- not have any relation to the E.S.I. scheme. eration of the Bill. The hon. Member is requested to go through that Act. ft provides for a wide range of The question is: medical and other facilities. If there are still places where bidi workers are not getting the “That Clauses 2 to 47 stand part of the facilities. We shall try to make these benefits Bill.” available to them. Let me give an assurance that we are alive to any shortcomings in the The motion was adopted implementation of labour laws, but as hon. Members are well aware the responsibility Clauses 2 to 47 were added to the Bill for their implementation lies with the State Governments. They have not taken up the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- task of implementation as seriously as they tion is: should have. This has resulted in shortcoming in implementation. To overcome this "That clause 1, the Enacting Formula shortcoming, we are amending many of the and the Long Title stand part of the Bill. labour laws to plug any legal loopholes that may exist. At the same time, employers who The motion was adopted violate these laws would be given severe punishment. For this purpose the penal Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the provisions are being made more stringent. Long Title were added to the Bill

I hope the amendments in various laws SHRI BINDESHWARI DUBEY: Ibegtp will ensure their better implementation and move: thus provide better facilities to workmens. ‘That the Bill be passed."

With these words I express my gratitude MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- to the hon. Members who have supported tion is: this Bill. With your permission, I propose that this Bill be passed. That the Bill be passed." 175 Employees' State AUGUST 14,1989 Ins. (Arndt) BS! 176

The motion was adopted 18.58 hr*.

MR. DUPUTY SPEAKER: Now the The Lok Sabha then adjourned tifl Eleven House stands adjourned to meet at 11.00 of the C lock on Wednesday, August 16, 1989/Sravana25, 1911 (Saka) hours on Wednesday, the 16th August, 1989.

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