Ordinary Meeting of Wicklow County Council Held At
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ORDINARY MEETING OF WICKLOW COUNTY COUNCIL HELD AT WICKLOW COUNTY BUILDINGS, WICKLOW TOWN ON MONDAY, 1ST OCTOBER 2018 AT 2:00 P.M. Gwen Malone Stenography Services certify the following to be a true and accurate transcript of the stenographic notes in the above-named action. ________________________ GWEN MALONE STENOGRAPHY 1 THE HEARING COMMENCED ON MONDAY, 1ST DAY OF 2 OCTOBER, 2018 AS FOLLOWS: 3 4 CATHAOIRLEACH: Members, have a seat please, it's two 5 o'clock. Okay Members. Votes of sympathy. 13:59 6 CLLR. FITZGERALD: Yeah. 7 CATHAOIRLEACH: Votes of sympathy anybody? 8 CLLR. TIMMINS: Yes. 9 CATHAOIRLEACH: Cllr. Timmins. 10 CLLR. TIMMINS: I would just like to propose a vote of 14:00 11 sympathy for Breda Allen, former County Registrar, 12 former Returning Officer for Wicklow and former Head of 13 the Rape Crisis Centre who passed away two days ago. 14 CATHAOIRLEACH: Okay. Anyone else? Lorraine has two. 15 MS. GALLAGHER: Yes, Cathaoirleach, for Philip Thomas 14:01 16 Meagher, who is the father of Mary Delahunty, current 17 Returning Officer, and for Rita Bouchier, grandmother 18 of our colleague, Debbie Bouchier. 19 20 [ONE MINUTE'S SILENCE WAS OBSERVED] 14:02 21 22 CATHAOIRLEACH: Cllr. Blake, you wanted to say 23 something. 24 CLLR. BLAKE: Just briefly, Chair, thank you. 25 Cathaoirleach, just a few quick words. Wicklow County 14:02 26 Council are very, very proactive in supporting sports 27 events and supporting people in the County and over the 28 last two weekends there, the girls, who we have a great 29 lot of support for as well, had two great weekends in 2 Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. 1 Baltinglass where the camogie finals were held, and on 2 that occasion the four teams were Knockananna, Donard 3 and was the senior finals... (inaudible due to not 4 having microphone switched on). We had a draw with 5 Annacurra in Aughrim and Annacurra won the replay 14:02 6 there. 7 8 On the following weekend we had the girls' football in 9 Aughrim, again a big turn out and a big occasion for 10 them all. Congratulations to all the girls who played 14:03 11 part in it and particularly all the small little girls 12 who played the games at half time, under 8s and under 13 12s. It was a great undertaking and a great 14 advertisement for ladies' football in Wicklow. 15 Congratulations to Tinahely and Pat's on their 14:03 16 victories on the date and in relation to the other 17 teams as well. Again, it's great to see so many girls 18 involved in sport. A wonderful occasion and I would 19 just thank all those people who were out there 20 organising it on a week-to-week basis at club level and 14:03 21 county level as well. It's wonderful to see the 22 advertisements and everything else with regard to it 23 and again thanks to everyone and thanks also, 24 congratulations to all the winners. 25 CATHAOIRLEACH: Just two people. Briefly now, because 14:03 26 I want to get onto the agenda. Cllr. Dunne and then 27 Cllr. Thornhill. 28 CLLR. DUNNE: Thank you, Chairman. I would like to 29 join Cllr. Blake. It was a great weekend and 3 Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. 1 unfortunately Roundwood lost the Senior Final. I would 2 just like to congratulate St. Patrick's in Rathnew who 3 reached the senior football final. Thank you. 4 CATHAOIRLEACH: Cllr. Thornhill. 5 CLLR. THORNHILL: Cathaoirleach, go raibh maith agat. 14:04 6 Cathaoirleach, I would just like to say that last 7 Monday we had a meeting here, we just on the Monday 8 there was a great occasion in Bray. A world class 9 event celebrating the Full Moon Festival was organised 10 by the Southside Chinese Residents' Association in Bray 14:04 11 and as you, know and I have been over the years -- 12 CLLR. TOMMY CULLEN: Sorry what celebration? 13 CLLR. THORNHILL: The Full Moon Festival, the mid 14 autumn festival. It's a Chinese event. Performers 15 from Shanghai came here and they went to Cork, Galway, 14:04 16 Limerick and to Dublin. This is the first time it has 17 been held in Bray and it really promoted Chinese 18 culture. A special word of thanks to everyone that 19 gave us, especially the local authorities themselves. 20 I think it's something that we should really emphasise 14:05 21 because I mean now that we, Wicklow County Council have 22 been involved with Hainan and twinning organisations, 23 you know, like for promoting the Chinese culture is 24 something that we should think about in the future and 25 that we should be promoting and helping these people, 14:05 26 Southside Chinese Residents' Association. Go raibh 27 míle maith agat. 28 CATHAOIRLEACH: Okay, thank you. Item 1 on the agenda: 29 To consider the disposal of the Mermaid in Bray there. 4 Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. 1 Cllr. Ryan wants to propose. Is there a seconder? 2 CLLR. McLOUGHLIN: I'll second it. 3 MS. GALLAGHER: Is that agreed? 4 CLLR. BEHAN: No, Chairman. No, it's not. 5 CATHAOIRLEACH: All right. Okay. That's fine. 14:06 6 CLLR. BEHAN: Let's have a discussion about this now, 7 Chairman, for minute. Okay? There's no need to be 8 rushing into this. First of all, I think we need a lot 9 more information before we make a decision on it. We 10 need to know exactly what the constitution is of the 14:06 11 board of the Mermaid Theatre. We need to know what the 12 implications are of extending the lease to 2052 at a 13 rate of €200 per annum. We need to know whether it 14 will convey any additional ownership or legal rights on 15 board members of the Mermaid Theatre into the future by 14:06 16 virtue of the extension of this lease. And given our 17 experience, certainly my experience - I'll only speak 18 for myself - in terms of the lack of willingness of the 19 management of this authority to give information that 20 we rightly should receive as elected representatives 14:07 21 regarding the Florentine Centre in Bray and regarding 22 the Barracuda restaurant in Bray in the past, I am not 23 prepared to accept, willy-nilly, motions put before us, 24 extend the lease here, extend it there, go to 2030, go 25 to 2050, the Law Agent says it's all right so therefore 14:07 26 we must do it. I'm sick and tired of the casual way 27 Councillors are being treated when it comes to the 28 disposal of public property. Now this is not a full 29 disposal, it's disposal by way of a leasehold but our 5 Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. 1 experience has been very, very bad on this Council in 2 particular with regard to issues like this. I want a 3 lot more information and I also want, by the way, to 4 know are we ever going to see the developer's agreement 5 on the Florentine Centre? Which to date has been 14:08 6 refused by the Chief Executive. I'd like to know, in 7 passing, what is happening about that, Cathaoirleach. 8 Thank you. 9 CATHAOIRLEACH: Councillor, you know what's happening 10 about that. Excuse me, you know there's a confidential 14:08 11 agreement there. 12 CLLR. BEHAN: Sorry, Chair, are you the Chief 13 Executive? 14 CATHAOIRLEACH: No, I'm -- 15 CLLR. BEHAN: Right. Well, can we have the Chief 14:08 16 Executive answering please, Chairman? 17 CATHAOIRLEACH: Listen here -- 18 CLLR. BEHAN: You're the Chairman, you're not the Chief 19 Executive. I put a question in to the Chief Executive. 20 CATHAOIRLEACH: I know what I am and I also know -- 14:08 21 CLLR. BEHAN: And I won't be put down by you and I'll 22 keep asking them, Cathaoirleach. 23 CATHAOIRLEACH: You can shout all you like. 24 CLLR. BEHAN: And ou can shout back. I'll keep asking. 25 CATHAOIRLEACH: You've been told you're not getting it 14:08 26 and that's it. 27 CLLR. BEHAN: You're telling me I won't get it so 28 you're deciding I won't get the answers. No. You 29 don't have the right to decide that. 6 Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. 1 CATHAOIRLEACH: You've been told. You've been told 2 what the situation is. 3 CLLR. RYAN: Childish. 4 MR. MURPHY: Cathaoirleach, I've circulated a report on 5 this to the members. I've circulated a copy of the 14:08 6 statutory notice in respect of the proposed extension 7 of the lease to Mermaid County Wicklow Arts Centre by a 8 further 15 years. The original lease, which was given 9 to Mermaid ran from 1st September 2002 until 31st 10 August 2037 a 35-year period. The proposed extension 14:09 11 would run until 31st August 2052. 12 13 I have also attached, in my correspondence to the 14 Members, a report from the CEO, the Artistic Director 15 of Mermaid setting out the reasons for the request to 14:09 16 extend the lease. The reasons are basically to 17 facilitate Mermaid to draw down a capital grant awarded 18 of €36,500.