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Jim Stevens Per Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners" (269:38), Mau... Jul 21 1997, 3:00 am About this group Jim Stevens >Jim Stevens ([email protected]) wrote: >>Per Stu... Jul 21 1997, 3:00 am Subscribe to this group Stewart Baldwin Jim Stevens wrote: >>... Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am This is a Usenet group - learn more Todd A. Farmerie Jim Stevens wrote: > Stuart's "Royalty For Co... Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am Jim Stevens Stewart Baldwin

2. Lievin \ Leutwinus of Treves Bishop. Died circa 722. Buried ROOTS-L Resources: Royal in Mettlach. Count, then Bishop of Treves {705-717}. Fl 705, Resources A summary of some royalty resources. 717. www.rootsweb.com The National Library of Ireland - Office 3. Gui of Treves. Count {706-722}. of Chief Herald ... www.nli.ie 4. Lambert of Hornbach. Died after 782. Count & Lord of Hornbach {760-ca783}.

5. Gui on the Breton March Count. Died 814. Fl 782-799.

6. Lambert of Nantes Count. Died 1 Sep 836 in Italy. Count of Nantes {818-834}. He married ? [dau. of Pepin of Lombardy], daughter of Pepin of Lombardy King & Gundora (Gondres \ Theress).

7. Guido I of Spoleto Duke. Died circa 858. Fl 842. He married Itana \ Judith.

ES ii, 188B starts with Lambert, generation 6, above.

I have not found a connection between these two lines (which overlap in time) except for common descendants several generations down the line.

Moriarty, by the way, refers to Chaume, "Les origines du

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_thread/thread/824097309... 7/17/2007 Garnier to Maurin- Ancester of Mgvs of Spoleto ? - soc.genealogy.medieval | Google Gro... Page 2 of 3

duche de Bourgogne" and later French literature as well as an NEHGR article, cvii (1953) p. 276 sq. I have not checked this subsequent literature, but I assume Moriarty's differences from Chaume are deliberate.

-- Alan B. Wilson [email protected]

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Richard Borthwick View profile More options Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am

At 03:06 PM 21/07/97 -0500, you wrote:

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>Jim Stevens ([email protected]) wrote:

>>Per Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners" (269:38), Maurin, the earliest of the >>margraves of Spoleto that I have found, was a Salic Frank who held lands in >>Parma, Reggio, and , 835-844.

>>Per Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (191:12), the Margraves of Spoleto were >>descendants of GARNIER, the broter of ALARD. ALARD's unnamed daughter >>probably married CARLOMAN, son of CHARLES MARTEL and Mayor of the Palace. >>Approximately a century separates GARNIER and MAURIN.

>>Can anyone post the specific line of descent from Garnier to Maurin ?

>In his 4 volume history "Les origines du duche de Bourgogne" (Dijon, >1925-31), Maurice Chaume included an appendix with 13 genealogical >tables giving the relations (both conjectured and proven) of many of >the early noble familes, including the dukes of Spoleto in Table IV. >(p. 535 - I forgot to write down the volume number when I photocopied >the tables many years ago, but I believe it was vol. 4.)

Volume I contains the genealogical tables. Formally *Les origines* is a two volume work, but volume II is printed in three sections (II.1, II.2, II.3) The chart

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>is given below (with accents omitted, to avoid problems for those who >can't handle them). Dotted lines indicate conjectured relationships. >The reason that Chaume conjectured Lambert I as a son of Nantier I is >presumably the fact that Lambert's son Gui was described as "unus de >stirpe Wernarhii" (the latter being a Latin form of the French name >Garnier [German Werner]. I do not see a "Maurin" on Chaume's table. >I do not know the extent to which any of the following has been >overturned by more modern research. Dates by themselves indicate >that the individual is mentioned in records of that year.

>Stewart Baldwin

>Saint Lievin, B. Troyes, 698, 704 Willigardis attava Willigardis > ______|______...... ______|______> | | | | | | >Rotru md. Gui, count Mille dau md. Garnier, 734 Alard >Charles 706, 722 B. Treves | founder of monast. 734 >Martel d. aft. 750 | of Hornbach > ______|______> | | | > Nantier I, 734 Herolin, 734 Rotharius, 734 > ...... |______> | | > Lambert I, count, ca. 750 Garnier, 767, 791, md. Engeltu > _____|______| > | | | | |

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>Guerin Gui, 782, 796 Rodoldus Garnier Nantier II, 791, bef. 814 >d. bef. "unus de stirpe 782 782, 807 prob. ancestor of Nantier, >796 Wernarhii" d. 814 ct. Lorraine ca. 860 > | _____|______> | | | > Lambert II Willigardis, 828 Erard? > 796, 814, 819, 823 "alta Werinheri 819 > d. 836 ct. Nantes prosapia orta" > ______|______|...... > | | | | | | > Gui I, duke Doue Garnier Lambert III Garnier dau md. > of Spoleto abbess count 840, d. 852 828, 865 Aubri IV > 842, 858 846 d. 852 ct. Nantes, ct. Blois > md. 1. NN marquis > 2. sister of md. Rotru > Siconolf | > |______|______> | | | > Lambert I Gui II ("senior"), 871 Guibert, 870, d. 882 > 860, 871 marquis of Camerino ct. Bolenois and > dk. Spoleto md. 1. NN, 2. Yuta, dau. Bassigny > of Evrard of Frioul md. Gautsa > ______|______> |(1) |(1) |(2) |(2) > Rohaut, 878, 895 Lambert II Gui IV, 877, d. 894 Conrad, 892 > md. Aubert II, 872, 879 marquis of Camerino ct. Lecco, md. > marquis of duke of duke of Spoleto Ermengundis > Tuscany Spoleto king, emperor | > | | md. Ageltrudis | > | ____| ______| ______| > | | | |...... ______> | | | | | | >Aubert III Gui III Lambert III Radaldus Gui V Yuta, md. >890, d. ca. (Rabia) 891, d. 898 895, 926 895, dk. Guaimar I >915, marquis 881, dk. k. Italy ct. Lecco Spoleto prince of >of, Tuscany, Spoleto emperor | Salerno >md. Berthe, | >dau. of | >Lothaire II | > |______|______> | | | | > Gui, 931 Lambert, 934 Ermengard Guibert > marquis of Marquis of md. Aubert, 937, d. 940 > Tuscany Tuscany marquis of | > Ivrea |______> | | | > Anchier III Atton Ermengard > 935, d. 940 ct. Lecco > marquis of > Spoleto

How are you able to get such a well-behaved chart? Whenever I try something like this in Eudora Light it ends up a mess.

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Discussion subject changed to "Making charts for posting" by Chris Bennett Chris Bennett In article <[email protected]>, sb... Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am Discussion subject changed to "Garnier to Maurin- Ancester of Mgvs of Spoleto ?" by Ste Stewart Baldwin Jim Stevens wrote: >I ... Jul 23 1997, 3:00 am End of messages

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