Garnier to Maurin- Ancester of Mgvs of Spoleto ? - soc.genealogy.medieval | Google Gro... Page 1 of 3 Help | Sign in soc.genealogy.medieval Les origines du duche de Bo Search this group Search Groups Garnier to Maurin- Ancester of Mgvs of Spoleto ? Options Discussions + new post 9 messages - Expand all Jim Stevens Per Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners" (269:38), Mau... Jul 21 1997, 3:00 am About this group Jim Stevens >Jim Stevens ([email protected]) wrote: >>Per Stu... Jul 21 1997, 3:00 am Subscribe to this group Stewart Baldwin Jim Stevens <[email protected]> wrote: >>... Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am This is a Usenet group - learn more Todd A. Farmerie Jim Stevens wrote: > Stuart's "Royalty For Co... Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am Jim Stevens Stewart Baldwin <[email protected]... Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am Sponsored Links Free England Genealogy Alan B. Wilson View profile More options Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am Access millions of Genealogy records here. Free. FreeGenealogyArchives.com Moriarty, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 19, shows the following descent for the "House of Parma": Your Lost Family Photos Ancestorville Genealogy 4,000 Family ID'd antiques For Sale 1. Maurin, Pfalzgraf, a Salic Frank, fl. 835-844. ancestorville.com Stewart Apartments 2. Suppo II of Spoleto, Count of Camerino {871-875}, d. 882/8. Free Photo Listings, Virtual Tours & More. Find an Apartment Here! 3. Berthilda, fl. 889-910, d. after 915. Married circa 880 www.apartments.com Beranger I, d. 924, Margrave of Friuli, King of Italy, Roman See your message here... Emperor. Related Pages Moriarty suggests that Maurin perhaps descended from a Court Circular Count Suppo I of Brescia, fl. 814. Times Online - 5 hours ago By command of The Queen, Sir Anthony Figgis (Marshal of the ... Generations 2 and 3, above, are confirmed in Schwennicke (ed.) Europaische Stammtafeln (ES), ii, 188A. Hannon eyes seventh Newbury Sprint win with six-strong entry Scotsman - 3 hours ago Moriarty, p. 74, Winkhaus, p. 193, and Turton, p. 184, as RICHARD Hannon will launch his well as Stuart, lines 265, 330 and 53, all show essentially the usual strong assault on the ... following male ancestry for Guido I, Duke of Spoleto: Churchyard/Orr Family Museum (Genealogy) -- Overview Chart of ... 1. Warinus of Poitiers. Died 677. He married Kunza, daughter of Ancestors of King Edward III of St. Clodoule of Metz Bishop. Fl 698, 705-717. England and Philippa of Hainault ... www.crossmyt.com 2. Lievin \ Leutwinus of Treves Bishop. Died circa 722. Buried ROOTS-L Resources: Royal in Mettlach. Count, then Bishop of Treves {705-717}. Fl 705, Resources A summary of some royalty resources. 717. www.rootsweb.com The National Library of Ireland - Office 3. Gui of Treves. Count {706-722}. of Chief Herald ... www.nli.ie 4. Lambert of Hornbach. Died after 782. Count & Lord of Hornbach {760-ca783}. 5. Gui on the Breton March Count. Died 814. Fl 782-799. 6. Lambert of Nantes Count. Died 1 Sep 836 in Italy. Count of Nantes {818-834}. He married ? [dau. of Pepin of Lombardy], daughter of Pepin of Lombardy King & Gundora (Gondres \ Theress). 7. Guido I of Spoleto Duke. Died circa 858. Fl 842. He married Itana \ Judith. ES ii, 188B starts with Lambert, generation 6, above. I have not found a connection between these two lines (which overlap in time) except for common descendants several generations down the line. Moriarty, by the way, refers to Chaume, "Les origines du http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_thread/thread/824097309... 7/17/2007 Garnier to Maurin- Ancester of Mgvs of Spoleto ? - soc.genealogy.medieval | Google Gro... Page 2 of 3 duche de Bourgogne" and later French literature as well as an NEHGR article, cvii (1953) p. 276 sq. I have not checked this subsequent literature, but I assume Moriarty's differences from Chaume are deliberate. -- Alan B. Wilson [email protected] Reply to author Forward Richard Borthwick View profile More options Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am At 03:06 PM 21/07/97 -0500, you wrote: - Hide quoted text - >Jim Stevens ([email protected]) wrote: >>Per Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners" (269:38), Maurin, the earliest of the >>margraves of Spoleto that I have found, was a Salic Frank who held lands in >>Parma, Reggio, and Piacenza, 835-844. >>Per Weis' "Ancestral Roots. ." (191:12), the Margraves of Spoleto were >>descendants of GARNIER, the broter of ALARD. ALARD's unnamed daughter >>probably married CARLOMAN, son of CHARLES MARTEL and Mayor of the Palace. >>Approximately a century separates GARNIER and MAURIN. >>Can anyone post the specific line of descent from Garnier to Maurin ? >In his 4 volume history "Les origines du duche de Bourgogne" (Dijon, >1925-31), Maurice Chaume included an appendix with 13 genealogical >tables giving the relations (both conjectured and proven) of many of >the early noble familes, including the dukes of Spoleto in Table IV. >(p. 535 - I forgot to write down the volume number when I photocopied >the tables many years ago, but I believe it was vol. 4.) Volume I contains the genealogical tables. Formally *Les origines* is a two volume work, but volume II is printed in three sections (II.1, II.2, II.3) The chart - Hide quoted text - >is given below (with accents omitted, to avoid problems for those who >can't handle them). Dotted lines indicate conjectured relationships. >The reason that Chaume conjectured Lambert I as a son of Nantier I is >presumably the fact that Lambert's son Gui was described as "unus de >stirpe Wernarhii" (the latter being a Latin form of the French name >Garnier [German Werner]. I do not see a "Maurin" on Chaume's table. >I do not know the extent to which any of the following has been >overturned by more modern research. Dates by themselves indicate >that the individual is mentioned in records of that year. >Stewart Baldwin >Saint Lievin, B. Troyes, 698, 704 Willigardis attava Willigardis > _________|_________________......... ______|_____________ > | | | | | | >Rotru md. Gui, count Mille dau md. Garnier, 734 Alard >Charles 706, 722 B. Treves | founder of monast. 734 >Martel d. aft. 750 | of Hornbach > ________________________|__________________ > | | | > Nantier I, 734 Herolin, 734 Rotharius, 734 > .........|__________________ > | | > Lambert I, count, ca. 750 Garnier, 767, 791, md. Engeltu > _____|_______________________________ | > | | | | | http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_thread/thread/824097309... 7/17/2007 Garnier to Maurin- Ancester of Mgvs of Spoleto ? - soc.genealogy.medieval | Google Gro... Page 3 of 3 >Guerin Gui, 782, 796 Rodoldus Garnier Nantier II, 791, bef. 814 >d. bef. "unus de stirpe 782 782, 807 prob. ancestor of Nantier, >796 Wernarhii" d. 814 ct. Lorraine ca. 860 > | _____|____________ > | | | > Lambert II Willigardis, 828 Erard? > 796, 814, 819, 823 "alta Werinheri 819 > d. 836 ct. Nantes prosapia orta" > _______|______________________ ___|...... > | | | | | | > Gui I, duke Doue Garnier Lambert III Garnier dau md. > of Spoleto abbess count 840, d. 852 828, 865 Aubri IV > 842, 858 846 d. 852 ct. Nantes, ct. Blois > md. 1. NN marquis > 2. sister of md. Rotru > Siconolf | > |______________ |_____________ > | | | > Lambert I Gui II ("senior"), 871 Guibert, 870, d. 882 > 860, 871 marquis of Camerino ct. Bolenois and > dk. Spoleto md. 1. NN, 2. Yuta, dau. Bassigny > of Evrard of Frioul md. Gautsa > ______________|______________________________________ > |(1) |(1) |(2) |(2) > Rohaut, 878, 895 Lambert II Gui IV, 877, d. 894 Conrad, 892 > md. Aubert II, 872, 879 marquis of Camerino ct. Lecco, md. > marquis of duke of duke of Spoleto Ermengundis > Tuscany Spoleto king, emperor | > | | md. Ageltrudis | > | ____| ______| ______________| > | | | |.......... _________ > | | | | | | >Aubert III Gui III Lambert III Radaldus Gui V Yuta, md. >890, d. ca. (Rabia) 891, d. 898 895, 926 895, dk. Guaimar I >915, marquis 881, dk. k. Italy ct. Lecco Spoleto prince of >of, Tuscany, Spoleto emperor | Salerno >md. Berthe, | >dau. of | >Lothaire II | > |_______________________________ |______ > | | | | > Gui, 931 Lambert, 934 Ermengard Guibert > marquis of Marquis of md. Aubert, 937, d. 940 > Tuscany Tuscany marquis of | > Ivrea |___________ > | | | > Anchier III Atton Ermengard > 935, d. 940 ct. Lecco > marquis of > Spoleto How are you able to get such a well-behaved chart? Whenever I try something like this in Eudora Light it ends up a mess. Reply to author Forward Discussion subject changed to "Making charts for posting" by Chris Bennett Chris Bennett In article <[email protected]>, sb... Jul 22 1997, 3:00 am Discussion subject changed to "Garnier to Maurin- Ancester of Mgvs of Spoleto ?" by Ste Stewart Baldwin Jim Stevens <[email protected]> wrote: >I ... 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