John Paul II Resignation - FAN-TASTIC FORUM Father Malachi Martin the Third Secret of Fatima

John Paul II Resignation - FAN-TASTIC FORUM Father Malachi Martin The Third Secret of Fatima

Vatican Intrigue What will come?

FAN-TASTIC FORUM Father Malachi Martin John Paul II Resignation (Page 1)

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Author Topic: John Paul II Resignation TomG Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 05:23 PM Posts: 175 Gwen told us the Belgian cardinal putting this forward (though now backstepping furiously) was From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 cardinal Danneel. Another Belgian cardinal is/was cardinal Suenens. Mac, did he have a place in Windswept House?

What is it with Belgium?

IP: Logged Capt.Hornblower Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 05:37 PM Posts: 74 Mac, Tom: Good to see you... From: Cold North Atlantic Registered: Oct 2000 (Pat)

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 05:40 PM Posts: 175 So you're Captain Hornblower. Great to see you here. From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 05:42 PM Posts: 175 Okay, I've cracked. I took down my first edition hard back copy of Windswept House and keep it From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 right by the computer for reference. (I was hoping to get Fr Malachi's autograph at some point). Those final chapters are really starting to look like prophecy. I'll reread them tonight.

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Capt.Hornblower Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 06:01 PM Posts: 74 From: Cold North Hey, Tom et.al...Found my copy as well...Great to see us all. Atlantic Registered: Oct 2000 IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 25 October 2000 06:15 PM Posts: 693 TomG, in the book the character Cardinal Piet Svensen was based on Card. Leo Suenens. BTW, that From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 cast of characters can be found at http://www.tcsn.net/ihs/domus/domus_v2n1.htm I was not going to post anymore for a while because I was so upset over some past events that have taken place, but talking anything about Fr Malachi is comforting to me.

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 25 October 2000 06:18 PM Posts: 693 Forgot to tell you... on the above link, scroll down & on the left, click on "Who's Who in Windswept From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 House"

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 06:27 PM Posts: 175 Thanks, Gwen, bookmarked that one immediately. From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 IP: Logged T77 Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 06:31 PM Posts: 551 I'm glad someone else read about the push to try and remove to Pope, When I read that I thought From: Wa. USA Registered: Aug 2000 about Fr Malachi telling Art Bell about the next Pope, and what to expect.

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 06:37 PM Posts: 175 I didn't see cardinal Baffi mentioned on that list. I think we can add that one as cardinal Ciappi. From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 IP: Logged mac Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 07:26 PM Posts: 558 hi guys. Ok. With regard to the those jockeying for position as successor, the short list might be From: Registered: Oct 2000 some variation of the names found at this link: http://www.time.com/time/daily/special/papacy/succession.html

I cross-referenced the names on this list, with the "whos who" and came up with the following: Card. Carlos Martini (Mihael Continho, S.J. in Windswept House); our buddy (just kidding) Card Joseph Ratzinger, who brought you the famous "interpretation" of the Third Secret of Fatima (Card. Reinvernunft in Windswept House); Card. Jean-Marie Lustiger (Card. Karmel in Windswept). The short list of those pushing the retirement agenda (as you identified above, Daneels, Suenens, and Ciappi) could be added to the list of cardinals you might want to research here: http://www.fiu.edu/%7Emirandas/a-z-all.htm

The bios are pretty sterile, but it might give you a springboard for add'l reserach. Ok, Gwen...looking good...

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http://www.fantasticforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000004.html (2 of 6) [12/18/2001 12:52:03 AM] John Paul II Resignation - FAN-TASTIC FORUM mac Buccaneer posted 25 October 2000 09:39 PM Posts: 558 Say T77, glad you could join us. As new/current press releases come out, I'd be interested to see From: Registered: Oct 2000 them. regards/mac

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 26 October 2000 07:27 AM

Posts: 693 Good morning, all. Mac, thanks for the links. I just briefly looked at them, but will get back to them From: Arizona in more detail a little later. I had a great night's sleep, am seeing things much more clearly today. Registered: Oct 2000 Have a great day, everyone...be safe...be vigilant...pray without ceasing.

IP: Logged anya46 Buccaneer posted 26 October 2000 01:30 PM Posts: 33 Dear Tom, Mac & Pat: From: Lexington Park, MD USA Registered: Oct 2000 Am reading for the 2nd time the book out, 'Hope of the Wicked' by Ted Flynn. Got this from a gentleman who gave me a copy in the parking lot at church. I was a little leary of it, since there seemed to be some confusion about Malachi writing the forward to the Flynn's other book on Marian apparitions. I know Malachi was not a proponent of that apparition, and still haven't read that book. This one, however, seems to be very well researched, and might help 'fit' some more pieces of the puzzle in regards to the going-ons in the Vatican in particular, and the world in general. Here's one source for it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966805631/qid%3D972591698/002-6264812-6037665 x Pax anne q

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 26 October 2000 02:32 PM Posts: 175 Anne, I'm sure this is a good book, even though most of it has been covered in other books. From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 Does he bring up any apparitions in the book to support his thesis? If so, I'd be skeptical.

Fr Martin wrote the forward for Ted and Maureen Flynns book on apparitions prior to reading the book. My understanding was he wasn't happy how he was used to show pseudo support for an apparition he did not want to speak specifically about, and would not endorse.

This is the kind of book written by someone who has been keeping track for a long time, and is close to or past retirement age. Otherwise, it would have been too risky to talk about.

IP: Logged Capt.Hornblower Buccaneer posted 26 October 2000 05:27 PM Posts: 74 Mac, Tom, Gwen et. al--Just on for a moment. You folks astound me with your research--top notch!! From: Cold North Atlantic Ann Q--you are back with friends!... Registered: Oct 2000 As ever, Pat

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http://www.fantasticforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000004.html (3 of 6) [12/18/2001 12:52:03 AM] John Paul II Resignation - FAN-TASTIC FORUM anya46 Buccaneer posted 27 October 2000 04:18 AM Posts: 33 From: Lexington Park, Tom: MD USA Does he bring up any apparitions in the book to support his thesis? If so, I'd be skeptical. Registered: Oct 2000 I don't know at this point, haven't gotten that far yet. My personal reading time is pretty spare (mostly before nodding off to sleep)as I'm teaching my 2 older kids and that keeps me busy. I just skimmed through the book the first time, sorry to say. Bad habit... Pat, thanks for the welcome. Oh, btw, on a completely different subject, a friend of Fr.Martins' filmed the Requiem Mass of Fr.Martin, with Fr.Paul Wickens celebrating the mass (I believe also Fr.Charles Fiore was present). It was/is a beautiful and moving tape. If anyone wants it, I'll get back on as soon as I'm done with my school day. pax anne (Tom - did you say you had a copy of the video?, and if so, maybe you could post info. on it for anyone interested) thanks

IP: Logged anya46 Buccaneer posted 27 October 2000 01:06 PM Posts: 33 For any interested, the video of Fr.Martins' From: Lexington Park, MD USA requiem mass can be obtained here: Registered: Oct 2000 http://www.catholiccounterpoint.com/category.html?UCIDs=354969%7C354975

pax anne q

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 27 October 2000 05:56 PM Posts: 175 Anne, I posted elsewhere on my opinion of home school moms, congratulations. From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 Just skim books... my wife is an expert. She's famous for reading the last pages of a spy novel first.

The amazing thing is, I can read in detail, pick out all the pertinent information and formulate conclusions. She skims, and seems to constantly pick out things I miss. It drives me crazy, but we do make a good team.

IP: Logged Al Bowman Buccaneer posted 29 October 2000 05:53 AM Posts: 451 Hi, Gwen, thanks for the link on Windswept House. I've copied it and am going to go through the From: Bensalem, Pa. Registered: May 2000 book again. The library is going to get sick of me taking me out

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 25 November 2000 10:08 AM Posts: 175 Interesting, and doesn't necessarily look good. From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 Dallas Morning News.

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http://www.fantasticforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000004.html (4 of 6) [12/18/2001 12:52:03 AM] John Paul II Resignation - FAN-TASTIC FORUM maryals Swashbuckler posted 26 November 2000 05:51 PM

Posts: 1722 From: anchorage, quote: Alaska, USA Registered: Sep 2000 Originally posted by TomG: Interesting, and doesn't necessarily look good. Dallas Morning News.

Thanks for the link TomG! Don't know if I agree with you...the news in this article isn't necessarily bad news either, to me, anyway. The "age limit" rules were put into place during the Papacy of Paul VI. For me, the issue is not "Conservative" vs "Progressive". The important issue, for me, IMO, is the "Smoke of Satan", and being vigilant to the Great Deceptions. maryals

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 26 November 2000 07:34 PM Posts: 175 Maryals, I saw this as a double edged sword. I worded my comment to try and see what everyone From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 thought. It's good the pope has been able and will continue to load the college with like minded prelates. But if they are all so close to retirement (where they will not be able to vote in the next conclave) it may come back to hurt the us.

In a more promising note, in the latest issue of the Wanderer, there is an article where the head of the Louvaine talked about all the theologians there, and their change of attitude. His first comment was, "The sixties are over". He later said, the current crop of periti do not have an attitude of contention against the Church, and instead has an attitude of "How can we help?" This may indeed be looking up.

IP: Logged mac Buccaneer posted 21 February 2001 02:01 PM Posts: 558 Wanted to give you guys a heads up on an L.A. Times article. It will only be accessable via the From: Registered: Oct 2000 LAtimes web site for about 7 days. After that, it goes to archives. Besure to print the article for yourself, if you are interested. It is a rather long article, with photographs. If you can get your hands on a hard copy of the newspaper, you may want to do that.

Article title: Hidden Hopes of Being Pope By: Richard Boudreaux, Times Staff Writer Section: L.A. Times, Wwednesday, February 21, 2001

As some of you may have noted from another post - I don't want to spend too many minutes in the Malachi Martin threads, if I am not on my own computer. Better for me if I get in and out, if I am not on my own computer. Regards/mac

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 21 February 2001 02:31 PM Posts: 693 Thanks, mac. Here's the link: From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 http://www.latimes.com/news/religion/20010221/t000015639.html

There's another story in same section..I'll go get link and come back and edit. Here is "The Men Who Would Be Pope": http://www.latimes.com/news/religion/20010221/t000015658.html

Here is story from same edition "Pope Installs 44 New Cardinals": http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/updates2/ap_cardinals010221.htm

Thanks again, mac. [This message has been edited by Gwen (edited 21 February 2001).]

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FAN-TASTIC FORUM Father Malachi Martin John Paul II Resignation (Page 2)

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Author Topic: John Paul II Resignation Capt.Hornblower Buccaneer posted 21 February 2001 02:56 PM Posts: 74 Hi, all. From: Cold North Atlantic Registered: Oct 2000 Mac--I was glad to see this thread back up. I was up at 4.15 am today getting ready for work and caught some of the installation ceremonies for the new Cardinals. My first thought was that I wished Fr. Martin was here to share his thoughts of this...I have to say that I view it all with great suspicion. I'll check the link you offered... Hope all is well. Thanks , as always. Pat

IP: Logged mac Buccaneer posted 21 February 2001 04:19 PM Posts: 558 Pat, you reminded me that it might not be that easy to find this From: Registered: Oct 2000 article. You would have to be familiar enought with the latimes site, and click on "print" (print vs. the electronic page version) to search the right area. Best to provide link: http://www.latimes.com/print/20010221/t000015639.html

This link yields the article, however, it appears to be truncated. Quite a bit shorter than the print version that was faxed to me this morning.

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 21 February 2001 04:44 PM Posts: 693 mac, go read my last post on page 1 of this thread. I posted link for From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 you..all they have to do is click 'print this story'to remove stuff on left, if they want to print articles. Your link does seem to yield shorter version than I read previously... I also linked 2 additional related articles from the same edition. [This message has been edited by Gwen (edited 21 February 2001).]

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Mercury Buccaneer posted 21 February 2001 08:17 PM Posts: 359 My money is on Carlo Martini for next Pope. One way or the other JPII From: NY, NY Registered: Dec 2000 doesn't look like he's got much more time and Martini seems like the best bet to save the sinking ship. (He said in the past they should consider having women priests, permitting divorce more freely, and ending the prohibition on contraception.)

IP: Logged mac Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 07:38 AM Posts: 558 Gwen, you're such a good sleuth. Your links make it much easier to From: Registered: Oct 2000 dial in to the article. I blew in and out of here so quickly, I completely missed your post. Thanks again.

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 22 February 2001 08:40 AM Posts: 693 Thank you, mac. I would have missed those articles if not for your From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 'heads up.'FYI, I have Drudge Report bookmarked. He has links to most major news sources. Here is a list of the new Cardinals: http://www.DailyCatholic.org/issue/2001Feb/feb22nr1.htm

This is a biographical dictionary of Cardinals (1903-2000)..a very good link: http://www.fiu.edu/~mirandas/a-z-all.htm

edited to add second link [This message has been edited by Gwen (edited 22 February 2001).]

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 22 February 2001 10:00 AM Posts: 693 Mac, I believe you are the one who gave me the link for Cardinal From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 biographies. There were about 8 links given; I think it was when we were in the old P2P..we were discussing "Windswept House." I printed the page of links. One of them is a cast of characters from the book and has been circulated widely. I think I will reread it. It is very relevant since supposedly several of the characters are papabile, if the list is to be believed. If anyone is interested, here it is: http://www.tcsn.net/ihs/domus/domus_v2n1.htm#WHO-WHO

edited to add link [This message has been edited by Gwen (edited 22 February 2001).]

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TomG Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 11:56 AM Posts: 175 Mercury, do you really think this will fix a sinking ship, or the torpedo From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 that sends it down?

IP: Logged anya46 Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 03:14 PM Posts: 33 Dear Tom - do you remember Malachi stating in one of the AB From: Lexington Park, MD USA interviews that the Church was going to have to 'go the way' of Registered: Oct 2000 Christ? In other words, she will have to go through the mysteries such as the 'Agony in the Garden', the 'Scourging', etc.,etc.? I believe it was a few years back when Malachi said that the Church hadn't yet started carrying the cross up to Calgary yet - I think perhaps if women priests are allowed, and the ban on contraception is lifted, perhaps then the Church will begin her walk to Golgotha (at least, I know it will feel like that to me!) God help us if the 'one, true Church' becomes merely a human institution! - bent on pleasing men rather than God. anya

IP: Logged Capt.Hornblower Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 03:40 PM Posts: 74 Mac, Gwen--Thank you both. Checking the links now. From: Cold North Atlantic Registered: Oct 2000 Tom--I agree with you and fear for the future. Here is a question for us all--Did Father Martin ever have a protege, a priest in whom he placed his trust? Did he ever mention the name of anyone who would carry on his work, whom the faithful could believe? I believe the above post is correct in that Father mentioned that our travails had not yet begun and, if I remember correctly, he did indeed use the metaphor of the Crucifixion. It would have been logical for Father to prepare others to take his place should he fall. Maybe it's just my celtic romantacism at work, but I can't believe that the shepherd would leave the flock directionless. What do you think? Love and thanks to all... Pat

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mac Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 04:14 PM Posts: 558 Interesting that we would all meet back here, today. Tom, I agree. From: Registered: Oct 2000 Pivotal time. I always say that by the time it hits the LA Times, the deed (what ever "it" is), is done. Although we may not know who will be the successor, it is known. This article, press releases, etc. seem to be the Vatican's (?) attempt to have it appear as though there is is a pragmatic, decision making process that will begin - at the appropriate time. Good question, Pat. Anyone got anything on that? Seems as though he had acquaintances, eg. Fr. Fiore (?), but kept his own counsel with regard to the subject of his last manuscript. Why...why didn't he give a copy of his work-in-progress to a confidant? Old questions, no answer expected... regards to you all/mac

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 22 February 2001 04:55 PM Posts: 693 Tom, I know you transcribed from tape 3 of the Deserted Vineyard From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 series; was tape 2 called "St Peter's Successor?" Do you have it , have you listened to it? Mac, it is synchronistic that we are all here today, the feast of the Chair of St Peter the Apostle. I lost the connection to this forum a couple of times today..the last time just after mac's last post, lasted about 30 minutes..only this forum..anyone else have a problem?

IP: Logged anya46 Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 05:16 PM Posts: 33 why didn't he give a copy of his work-in-progress to a confidant? Old From: Lexington Park, MD USA questions, no answer expected... Registered: Oct 2000 Indeed, mac - I've often wondered along the same line.

it seems that there should be someone with whom he entrusted, if not a written copy, at least his thoughts and theories(?)on what was to come - I've wondered if his drafts/papers fell into the wrong hands after his death...

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TomG Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 07:21 PM Posts: 175 anya46, unitypublishing.com did research what happened to Fr From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 Malachi, and his work and papers following his stroke. I'll find the link for you, if you haven't read it.

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 07:30 PM Posts: 175 The group Roman Catholic Faithful (RCF), is now distributing a From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 book that shows all the in fighting going on in the Vatican. Apparently, the modus operandi is to keep the pope and secretary of state (Sodano) so busy, traveling, etc., that they are not available to manage the plant. It says the Vatican Curia is basically broken down into two powerful clans, vying for power and is thoroughly run through with freemasonry (which Fr Malachi also warned us about). The book also gives a good analysis of the probable next pope. The Wanderer (I've been a subscriber for over a decade) also has a recent article about the candidates for the next pope. Remember, many of the cardinals recently put in place are from Latin America. It is possible the next pope will come from there. Also, since this pope is not an Italian, the next pope probably will be, since anyone else will be compared to JPII, and never measure up. Too many twists and turns in this one, we have to leave it up to the Holy Ghost. What I always had, until Fr Malachi left us, was someone who I could count on to let us know the next pope was validly elected. When the antichrist and false prophet come on the scene, they will fool many people, I don't want to be one of them.

IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 07:32 PM Posts: 175 Gwen, I have the tape and have listened to it a zillion times. I'll listen From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 again to see what Fr Malachi wanted to tell us. It is a little dated, but may still have good information.

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TomG Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 07:35 PM Posts: 175 anya46, Fr Malachi, on several occasions, talked about (and he quoted From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 the saints here) that the history of the Church would mirror the life of Christ. It was some time ago he described the Church as being scourged, and Its crowning with thorns. But he always said we haven't yet started our via dolorosa, Calvary. Look what times we have ahead of us. (I think I transcribed some of this on the other thread, but can revisit if you like).

IP: Logged Mercury Buccaneer posted 22 February 2001 08:02 PM Posts: 359 From: NY, NY TomG Said: Registered: Dec 2000 quote: Mercury, do you really think this will fix a sinking ship, or the torpedo that sends it down?

The ship is sinking already. I see nothing in the words or Christ or god-given common sense which mandates a "celibate" priesthood. In fact this would have been "unthinkable" in Jesus' own day. It was added later, after the first 1,000 years of the Church's existence primarily to ensure that priests' property passed to the Church upon death, and not to the priest's wife and/or children. And, why shouldn't a woman be a priest? As a man, and Catholic, I think any person so moved should be welcomed into the priesthood, not just other men. I hope Cardinal Martini as Pope finishes John XXIII's work ..."apre le finestre!" So much of what passes for dogma today is nothing more than a collection of mindless rules from the middle ages. They obscure the true meaning and spirit of Christ. And it's not about who stands at an altar, or who uses a condom, or how much holy water you splash and where, or if you eat meat on Friday during lent! Those are the concerns of petty bureauocrats, not a all embracing God. I truly think it is the Church itself and the Vatican that will be punished for what they have done to distort Christ's message of love, forgiveness, brotherhood and sharing. This is the real Third Secret of Fatima. That punishment will be more empty pews and closed churches,....and complete irrelevance. J.P. II has been a complete disaster. He would have made a great Pope in 1460, but this is 2001! It is a terrible thing that Albino Luciani (J.P. I) only lived for a month and we then got JP II. Of course there

http://www.fantasticforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000004-2.html (7 of 11) [12/18/2001 12:52:11 AM] John Paul II Resignation - FAN-TASTIC FORUM are factions in the vatican; those who are stuck in a dead past and those who are inspired with a living spirt. M Martin and K Keating have it all wrong about who's on each "side". Finally, JPII is now stacking the Curia deck with 40 new conservative throwbacks like himself in an attempt to rule from the grave (or forced retirement) by guarantying the next Pope elected will be like him. This is outrageous and unprecedented. And Evil. [This message has been edited by Mercury (edited 22 February 2001).]

IP: Logged everaftergirl Swashbuckler posted 23 February 2001 12:55 AM Posts: 2367 Mac, thank you for that information, and Gwen, thank you very much From: Southern California for the links. Registered: May 2000 IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 23 February 2001 07:59 AM Posts: 693 Just found this April newsletter of Fr Martin's..it is about the problems From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 facing the next Conclave. I know you guys are probably tired of my links, but I don't like long posts when they can be avoided, and I also worry about copyright violations. Here it is:

http://www.starharbor.com/fr_martin/apr98.html

It sounds as if it could have been written yesterday. Tom, would you give the link you mentioned above, regarding what happened to Fr Martin's papers? Is this it: http://www.unitypublishing.com/Newsletter/jul22_99.html

Okay, I promise, no more links today!

[This message has been edited by Gwen (edited 23 February 2001).]

IP: Logged everaftergirl Swashbuckler posted 23 February 2001 07:35 PM

Posts: 2367 Hi Gwen, From: Southern California Thank you for those links. I had seen some of that a long time ago, Registered: May 2000 but not the newer stuff. Please keep 'em coming.

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TomG Buccaneer posted 23 February 2001 08:06 PM Posts: 175 Yes, Gwen, that's the link I saw. From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 IP: Logged TomG Buccaneer posted 23 February 2001 08:36 PM Posts: 175 Mercury, your biases are very clear from your comments. I don’t want From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 to argue irrelevancies here, but I do have a couple of comments. Your knowledge of Church history is drastically different from mine. While claiming no great encyclopedic understanding of the Church’s past, I have read a couple of things, over the years, and they in no way jive with your statements, which are decidedly political. If there is interest amongst the others, we can start another thread and look into where the practices of the Church came from. If the middle ages were so mindless, and the Church thus having gone off in the wrong direction, how could Christ have been telling us the truth when He said the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church? The comment about JPII being a complete disaster is a verbatim statement of Richard McBrien, the pseudo theologian the network TV anchors pull out from under a rock whenever they want to get a supposedly Catholic viewpoint for the evening news, knowing full well McBrien’s blather will only cause more scandal within the Church. If you are a Catholic, and not a sedevacantist, then you must realize that JPII is the validly elected pope, put in place by Christ and the Holy Ghost, carrying out God’s will. Who can be against that, let alone call it evil? This thread is concerned with factual information concerning some members of the Curia and their attempt to get the pope to retire (which they have been trying to do since before the pope turned 75). While I don’t know how long the pope will reign, I do hope he does not acquiesce to your demands.

I’m sure, in your study of Church history, you’ve come across references to a heresy called Americanism. Perhaps you should look it up again, and compare it to your statements from the middle paragraphs of your last post. We have a pope, who is the vicar of Christ, the one given the power to bind and loose. If you are not in communion with him, you are not a Roman Catholic, whether you profess to be or not, whether you are formally excommunicated or not. If you are in schism, you should state so plainly, rather than try to remake the Church to your designs, negating thousands of years of Tradition.

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Capt.Hornblower Buccaneer posted 24 February 2001 09:27 AM Posts: 74 Hello to all. From: Cold North Atlantic Registered: Oct 2000 Well done, Tom! Mercury--Thank you for sharing your thoughts, however I must say I am confused. The beginning of your post lists a variety of social issues which have plagued the Church in recent times and as such are not 'news' to any of us. Your positions are generally held by a leftist fringe group within the Church. However, I think it important, as Tom mentions above, that you clarify the theological base from which you launch your attack. I, for one, have never heard a Roman Catholic look for the day when the 'pews are empty' and I have certainly never heard a Roman Catholic describe the Holy Father as 'evil', although that IS a tenet of the fundamentalism espoused by Ian Paisley and his ilk. Some of your thoughts have the flavour of that protestant fundamentalism which adheres to the 'First Century Church' concept. In short, please tell us if you are coming to the debate as a practicing Roman Catholic, as a lapsed Catholic or as a member of a sect of some kind. Also, it would be helpful to know your views reference the origination of evil, how evil manifests itself in the world and who, if not Holy Mother Church, represents the forces of good and light in the world.

IP: Logged Hilda Sophia Buccaneer posted 24 February 2001 11:09 AM

Posts: 1334 Gwen, From: Connecticut Registered: May 2000 Thanks for posting the links for Father Malachi. I had read them before at the time of his death, but had forgotten some of the details. I'm glad that the information is still available. Sometimes things like this get "lost".

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Author Topic: John Paul II Resignation mac Buccaneer posted 24 February 2001 11:34 AM Posts: 558 From: Hi guys. Gwen, thanks for digging up those links. Please don't Registered: Oct 2000 apologize for posting stuff we might have looked at some time ago. My sense is that it is helpful to revisit text and issues. They may take on a clarity, when framed in the "here and now" current events. Today's issue of the L.A. Times, has the first in a four-part series of "The Men Who Would Be Pope". Today's article entitled, "A Latin American Force", has been religated to the "Religion" section. As if this issue does not have global-geo-political implications. Case in point, the writers are Times Staff Writer, Richard Boudreaux in Rome, and maggie Farley at the United Nations. Can you say, "United Nations" everyone? Tom, the article supports your theory. Article names Colombian Cardinal Dario Castrillon, as one of the front-runners to become the regions likeliest possible successor to Pope John Pall II.

http://www.fantasticforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000004-3.html (1 of 4) [12/18/2001 12:52:14 AM] John Paul II Resignation - FAN-TASTIC FORUM Quote from article, "If there is to be a pope from Latin America, he will be the one," predicted Martin Poblete." Tom, agreed. I don't want to be fooled. Anxious here. Perhaps we can be each other's reality check.

IP: Logged Capt.Hornblower Buccaneer posted 24 February 2001 05:17 PM Posts: 74 Mac and Tom: From: Cold North Atlantic Registered: Oct 2000 Amen. Pat

IP: Logged Mercury Buccaneer posted 25 February 2001 05:39 PM Posts: 359 "IS ASIAN CARDINAL IN LINE FOR PAPACY?" From: NY, NY Registered: Dec 2000 Sunday,February 25,2001 - New York Post http://www.nypost.com/commentary/24809.htm

I've been away and haven't had a moment to post a response and clarification to my last post yet, but thought you all might find the Feb 25th New York Post article on Cardinal Van Thuan, interesting. [This message has been edited by Mercury (edited 25 February 2001).]

IP: Logged DisneyFreak96 Swashbuckler posted 25 February 2001 09:22 PM Posts: 1528 Mac - The LATimes was a great series. I really recommend that From: New Orleans Square, Disneyland everyone else read it...I will try to get it up but right now I'm so busy Registered: May 2000 moving my website and graphics... The pressure is starting to mount on the Vatican.... ------signing off.... DisneyFreak96 Save Disneyland

IP: Logged Gwen Swashbuckler posted 06 March 2001 03:26 PM Posts: 693 Here is an article from the religion section of Los Angeles Times, From: Arizona Registered: Oct 2000 March 3, '01. It is about Cardinal Godfried Danneels, one of the papabile.

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mac Buccaneer posted 06 March 2001 09:01 PM Posts: 558 Hi guys. Hope everyone is still here. I've been gone for about a week. From: Registered: Oct 2000 Just doing a fly-by, and will be out. Hopefully, with a laptop. Gwen, interesting article. Check out this paragraph. Not sure, however I think it speaks of the "Primacy" issue Fr. Malachi Martin had hoped to disclose. Primacy - being the centralized authority of the Vatican residing with the Pope, vs. the Bishops. Quoting from article (Gwen's link) "In a College of Cardinals dominated by doctrinal conservatives, Danneels is part of a small but articulate group of moderate to progressive clerics, along with Roger M. Mahony of Los Angeles, Carlo Maria Martini of Italy and Roger Etchegaray of France. They favor reform in the direction of shared decision-making in the church, as opposed to a heavy centration of power in the Vatican." Shared-decision making vs. Primacy.

IP: Logged mac Buccaneer posted 09 March 2001 12:16 PM Posts: 558 I'm beginning to feel like a e-transient. I am on another borrowed From: Registered: Oct 2000 laptop for the next week. Qustion: Given the working title of Fr. Malachi Martin's last manuscript (Gwen, help me out with that title), what the heck did he mean? Was he inferring that we will need to survive Primacy, or the lack of it? In other words, was he telling us that the horrific future of the church: 1. Is the legacy resulting from past "Primacy" popes (Pope John Paul II and all popes preceeding). Or, 2. Will be the result of the path upon which, a new "Primacy" pope embarks? Or, 3. Will be the result of a new pope, who abandons "Primacy". Wrestling with what He ment by that title. [This message has been edited by mac (edited 09 March 2001).]

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TomG Buccaneer posted 09 March 2001 06:08 PM Posts: 175 Mac, Fr Malachi spoke at great length of the primacy of Peter, and From: ,TX, USA Registered: Oct 2000 Tradition. He always spoke of Rome, prior to Vatican II, being a hub, with spokes going out to all the various diocese. The relationship was always the pope to the bishop, and the pope, being the vicar of Christ on earth, the one told to "feed My lambs, feed My sheep", the rock, was in charge. With Vatican II, and the teaching of collegiality, he saw this primacy irreparably harmed. Even though pope Paul VI write an explanatory note to follow Lumen Gentium explaining things, it is never referenced. I believe if Fr Malachi was writing a book with a working title of Primacy, the book would, in very clear terms, explain what Church teaching has been for 2000 years, and explain that this teaching (Tradition) can not be changed by any pope, curia official, or congregation in Rome, and if we see anything like this happening, it's time to go underground, and hit the catacombs. If you look at his interviews and books, you can kind of see a trajectory moving in this general direction, each interview or book going a little deeper, exposing a little more. He couldn't give us all the information at once, it was more than we could assimilate, so I think he was educating us along the way, preparing us for what saw coming. [This message has been edited by TomG (edited 09 March 2001).]

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